Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: just cool on June 20, 2012, 05:06:19 AM
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Was going through the net yesterday and accidentally ran into this info, had no idea that such a test was carried out. what do yuhs think, is it valid?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHzOUNt4fhg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vg2BMkEjR0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiLvtDL2IBs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_40fJhhZzds&feature=fvwrel
i was never sure about the egyptians to tell yuh the truth. a lot of black americans try to claim ancient agypt bc of their lost culture and wanting to belong to something great.
they also had the need to dubunk the white propaganda that blacks had no great history and existed as primitive ppl foraging and hunting up till modern times under basic conditions.
as for me, i never got on that wagon, instead i always opted for the facts, and in the case of egypt, the jury stiil out.
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Hard to know whether it is valid or not.
(1) the haplotypes they are describing are apparently not found in Egypt today in any significant quantities.
(2) they conveniently forgot that these same group of genes are also found in some parts of western and central sub-saharan africa.
(3) the genetic marker they claim to have used, the r1b1, is not conventionally used in these types of studies because it is not mitichondrial, i.e not maternal. mitochondrial dna (mtDNA) is probably the most accurate and telling form of ancestral/genetic mapping, especially when it comes to SRTs (short tandem repeats) that form the basis of the haplotyping presumed in these 'studies'.
(4) cleopatra's father's family was of macedonian lineage, so even though tut was long before that time it's still possible he may have been of europpean extract. OR his genetic complement may have moved into europe after his death, or even already moving in that direction before his death.
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Hard to know whether it is valid or not.
(1) the haplotypes they are describing are apparently not found in Egypt today in any significant quantities.
(2) they conveniently forgot that these same group of genes are also found in some parts of western and central sub-saharan africa.
(3) the genetic marker they claim to have used, the r1b1, is not conventionally used in these types of studies because it is not mitichondrial, i.e not maternal. mitochondrial dna (mtDNA) is probably the most accurate and telling form of ancestral/genetic mapping, especially when it comes to SRTs (short tandem repeats) that form the basis of the haplotyping presumed in these 'studies'.
(4) cleopatra's father's family was of macedonian lineage, so even though tut was long before that time it's still possible he may have been of europpean extract. OR his genetic complement may have moved into europe after his death, or even already moving in that direction before his death.
The Koran could answer all those questions..why look to science?
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Hard to know whether it is valid or not.
(1) the haplotypes they are describing are apparently not found in Egypt today in any significant quantities.
(2) they conveniently forgot that these same group of genes are also found in some parts of western and central sub-saharan africa.
(3) the genetic marker they claim to have used, the r1b1, is not conventionally used in these types of studies because it is not mitichondrial, i.e not maternal. mitochondrial dna (mtDNA) is probably the most accurate and telling form of ancestral/genetic mapping, especially when it comes to SRTs (short tandem repeats) that form the basis of the haplotyping presumed in these 'studies'.
(4) cleopatra's father's family was of macedonian lineage, so even though tut was long before that time it's still possible he may have been of europpean extract. OR his genetic complement may have moved into europe after his death, or even already moving in that direction before his death.
The Koran could answer all those questions..why look to science?
Explain!
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Very good thread topic just cool. If the scientific technique proving that King Tut was European is sound and adheres to the most rigorous research methods, then I will accept that King Tut is European. But, as Zandolie's post indicates, there is still some contention concerning this claim.
http://www.livescience.com/15388-discovery-channel-tutankhamen-dna.html
http://dnatribes.com/dnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf
Admittedly, the DNA tribes link is debatable there is a lot of controversy surrounding the claims in the dna tribes article. For more info, here are the data that the dna tribes article based its research on:
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185393
I am no expert on this topic, although I certainly have an interest on the topic, so I will defer to those on this board more qualified to speak on the topic. For the geneticists on this forum, how valid is the research conducted in the dna tribes article?
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next thing is white people build the pyramids
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the link to the article is from the journal of the american medical association, which maintains a very good reputation. but dnatribes comparison of the valid genetic markers (STRs) used by jama to me would be suspect. not sure if they are using widely accepted data or their own.
aryan supremacists are always trying to claim every ounce of achievement through history as thier own. and too many black/brown people try to rope in celebrity type figures to cover their deep insecurity on the acheivements of their own people. case in point cleopatra. macedonia lineage father, likely african mother. but everybody body playing tug of war with her heritage.
in the end if race is all about genetics, then many of the 'races' that existed in the past don't exist today. like the neanderthals, many present today will be greatly altered or gone tommorow whether by mutation, population dynamics, or intermixing .
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One of the very last projects I (a team of us) filmed & edited while at Discovery Communications was a Doc. on King TUT and his ancestral lines. I have some of the photos on FB of my trip to the Pyramids and the Valley of the Kings. When we took MRI of King Tut and recreated his face, the head of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities and Head Archeologist Zahi Hawass, fought us tooth and nail. They did not want us to depict what we had found or what we were lead to recreate with the help of forensic recreations. That project was delayed from 2008 to 2010. Lets just say that Tut, his granny and his family buried their tombs were not european...
I have yet to see europeans with ah question mark head (side profile)
maasai/nubian
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6295_613992841275_7527434_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6295_613992871215_322993_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/6295_613992901155_5620314_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/6295_613992881195_8212419_n.jpg)
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next thing is white people build the pyramids
Aliens.
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True true, everyone knows the aliens did it.
Talking so, I was watching history channel a while back. They was cutting granite with laser precision. Without modern tools. Cutting granite by hand like that, next to impossible for that time period.
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Ever since I read Chariots of the Gods when I was real young (admittedly a lot of that book is jokey) I have never ruled out the alien theory. Yeah, I know I'll get abuse for saying that, but I've been inside a pyramid at Giza and the accuracy of those buildings is amazing.
Its just hard to comprehend how some Egyptian convinced a pharoah to spend huge amounts of money to build something that big without really knowing it could be done. And then nothing that big was built by humans for 2000 years or longer (as far as I can recall?) In fact, the Crusaders couldn't even demolish them and they gave it a good try!
Ok, now shoot me!
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Hard to know whether it is valid or not.
(1) the haplotypes they are describing are apparently not found in Egypt today in any significant quantities.
(2) they conveniently forgot that these same group of genes are also found in some parts of western and central sub-saharan africa.
(3) the genetic marker they claim to have used, the r1b1, is not conventionally used in these types of studies because it is not mitichondrial, i.e not maternal. mitochondrial dna (mtDNA) is probably the most accurate and telling form of ancestral/genetic mapping, especially when it comes to SRTs (short tandem repeats) that form the basis of the haplotyping presumed in these 'studies'.
(4) cleopatra's father's family was of macedonian lineage, so even though tut was long before that time it's still possible he may have been of europpean extract. OR his genetic complement may have moved into europe after his death, or even already moving in that direction before his death.
Zando, i'm very much interested in the ancient world, but strange enough, have no interest in king tut's lineage. i used to be crazy about ancient egyptian culture and history, but when i got a wiff of the modern egyptians i was totally turned off by them even though it''s not the same culture or the same ppl. those people (modern egyptians) are horrible and racist, so i took a back seat.
another thing that turned me off from the ancient egyptians were the black orientalist, especially those who live here in the west. those people sometimes embellish the truth just so they could convince people that egypt was totally black, these ppl behave like they have some sort of blood connection to those ppl, when in fact they are not our (ppl who came to the west as slaves) ancestors, but the ancestors of the kushite and nubian ppl.
i kinda glad it happened, would have given anything to see the faces of dr ben and chancellor williams when the news was announced that tut was in truth ah white boy.
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True true, everyone knows the aliens did it.
Talking so, I was watching history channel a while back. They was cutting granite with laser precision. Without modern tools. Cutting granite by hand like that, next to impossible for that time period.
Breds, it sound like yuh joking, but you could never tell with some folks on the site, but lets assume that you weren't, that idea of aliens building pyramids and structures that are unexplained is a white supremacist concept, bc in their mind africans are sub human and is incapable of any kind of engineering feat especially when it's not engineered and instigated by mighty whitey.
all this fackin guessing and speculating would have been a non issue if the greeks didn't burn down the libraries when they conquered egypt. had the libraries stayed in tact, then we would have known all who did what when and why! but they burned it to the ground bc they wanted no trace of a "majority black" civilization, and they couldn't spread the lie that math science and technology started in greece had it stay in tact.
how is it that no one questions the inventions of white ppl. the aero plane, space shuttle, computer and other marvelous inventions are far greater than that of the pyramids, but no one is saying that aliens came and gave them the technology, but when it's in africa or in latin america, in their minds "those ppl too dunce to do anything so splendid, so it must be a white man who help them", or some bug eyed spacemen.
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One of the very last projects I (a team of us) filmed & edited while at Discovery Communications was a Doc. on King TUT and his ancestral lines. I have some of the photos on FB of my trip to the Pyramids and the Valley of the Kings. When we took MRI of King Tut and recreated his face, the head of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities and Head Archeologist Zahi Hawass, fought us tooth and nail. They did not want us to depict what we had found or what we were lead to recreate with the help of forensic recreations. That project was delayed from 2008 to 2010. Lets just say that Tut, his granny and his family buried their tombs were not european...
I have yet to see europeans with ah question mark head (side profile)
maasai/nubian
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6295_613992841275_7527434_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6295_613992871215_322993_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/6295_613992901155_5620314_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/6295_613992881195_8212419_n.jpg)
Daft, you are full of surprises bro, that handle "daft" must be some kind of antonym, bc you not exuding no kind of daft qualities, @ least thus far. ;D
so you worked on the reconstruction of the skull ? very impressive. :applause: it must have been a great time in the hot sun. that man dr hawass is ah big nanny if i ever seen one, i heard he could be extremely nasty and bigoted! as for tuts side profile, i believe they got his skin color wrong (depicting him as a red man) but in his portraits he has full lips and dark brown skin, in the recreation the boy have thin lips and red like an apple, woh kind ah sh!t was dat??
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Eh zando, if i was them i would not resort to using his mitochondrial dna either, yuh want them want tuh foil their own plans? after all the man grand mother was queen (tiye) ah black nubian woman.
http://wysinger.homestead.com/tiye5.html
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"how is it that no one questions the inventions of white ppl. the aero plane, space shuttle, computer and other marvelous inventions are far greater than that of the pyramids, but no one is saying that aliens came and gave them the technology, but when it's in africa or in latin america, in their minds "those ppl too dunce to do anything so splendid, so it must be a white man who help them", or some bug eyed spacemen."
lol.
they used to say it was impossible to construct and stabilize brick/stone structures on sand with the technology of the ancient world. then some western engineer figured out to replicate the building of a brick pyramid using only materials available at that period. there was clear adaption and improvement of engineering techniques over the course of time. hardly a strong case for the perfection of some 'alien' putting down masterpieces on the spot.
the idea that slave labour was exclusively used to build large construction projects is also a fallacy that was started by the greeks (herodontus and siculus mainly) that still perpetuates to this day. that really degraded the quality of egypitian achievement imo, and was also used to justify slavery
to be fair, there is 'alien' conspiracies surrounding stonehenge too. so its not neccessarily all racism.
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I don't even understand how racism can be a part of the discussion concerning technological achievements. (I understand the implications concerning the Egyptian DNA).
Yes of course there are white supremists who try to dispel any achievements of non whites. But there are zealots in all races and religeons. Most people don't listen to them, although I concede that if a theory is repeated enough, people will believe it without checking its validity.
"how is it that no one questions the inventions of white ppl. the aero plane, space shuttle, computer" This is a thoughtless statement that detracts from your point.
At least think it through. A better question would be "how is it that no one questions the voyages of Columbus, or the development of gunpowder, or how about the writings of Nostradamus or the sketches by Da Vinci"
As for alien interaction, being fairly oblivious of engineering and construction techniques, when I visited Giza, my son and I sat looking at those magnificent structures and tried to conceptulise the design, logistics and construction and came away in awe of those builders. Now I can fathom how the Empire State building was built and even those fantastical buildings in the Emirates and Malaysia, but the pyramids still puzzle me.
And the racism against ancient civilisations can be ridiculed by the example of Stonehenge. White guys stand a dozen or so rocks in a circle while Africans are using tens of thousands to build perfect pyramids containing astronomical measuring systems.
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all this fackin guessing and speculating would have been a non issue if the greeks didn't burn down the libraries when they conquered egypt. had the libraries stayed in tact, then we would have known all who did what when and why! but they burned it to the ground bc they wanted no trace of a "majority black" civilization, and they couldn't spread the lie that math science and technology started in greece had it stay in tact.
jc, de fact that it was egyptian libraries getting burn down tell yuh all yuh need to know ent.
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Come on Football supporter, this is why i don't like to engage white people in topics of this nature, more than often they tend to get over offended and cry out racism when truth, facts, reality is visited or revisited.
breds, the black race has always had a hard time with white societies, not that they didn't have a hard time with anyone else, but ever since the two cultures met there was always some kind of malice on the part of the white race towards the black race, and when this is expunged to white people, they either tend to cry racism, or over simplify it instead of approaching it soberly and openly.
the black man has always been marginalized by the white power structure, especially during and after the transatlantic slave trade. we were savages, 1/5 of a man, incapable of great things, monkey ape like folks, incapable of great societal feats, we had no soul, inferior to whites, all this negative slander just bc they want to usurp authority on the planet without reproach.
just listen to the irish prof in the first clip of my initial post " blacks has never been able to duplicate what was done in egypt" what ah fackin lie, they did it in ethiopia, in mesopotamia, timbuktu, kenya, carthage and right up the block in sudan (nubia) which preceded ancient egypt.
right here in america there were tens of invention by black inventors but was never taught in schools, written in books or even made public. fellas like benjamin banekka, elijah mc coy, and lewis latimer was never credited with their inventions, inventions that was major in their time and presently, yet no one knows bc it would expose the lie that blacks were incapable of producing technology kust like in ancient egypt.
for centuries the white power structure has been under playing the accomplishments of black people, and still doing it to this day!
just look @ africa for instance, the wealthiest continent on the planet, but funny enough, have the most poverty. africa was never the same after western europeans set foot in sub saharan africa, they stole enslaved, pillaged, created wars and finally colonized,
then like if that wasn't enough, after sucking africa dry like ah starch mango, they never put squat back into the place, that's bc it served their purpose not to, the same way it served the greeks to burn down the libraries of alexandra egypt, in other words, they wanted the world to know that blacks were incapable of having great societies.
for yrs i had to watch as a little boy black africans depicted on TV in the most shameful way! ppl walking around half naked in grass skirts with painted faces and living in mud huts, there was no great civilizations, no accomplishments, just some black muddy looking unkept ppl scrounging and foraging like wild animals. never did they show ppl in lagos, durasalem, kinchasa, nirobi,or kigary, only wild bush tribes who make up less than 5 % of africa's population, but that's what i thought africa was as a little boy.
only when i grew up i found out that africa had great civilizations and ah even greater history. the reality is, there were countless great civilizations in afirca, but no one would even know, that's bc the white power structure found it in their interest to hide our great history.
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Pre flood they were called the Nephilim (The ones who came down from the sky. Call them alien if you want) Bible called them sons of God. Book of Enoch claimed they thought men many mysteries and sciences including how to make war, dark magic etc. Sumerian culture/Babylonian/Tower of Babal/Nimrod's Empire clearly depicts these giant beings and gives credit to what they were thought by them. Call them aliens if you want :) Post flood they are encountered in many other places based on the biblical account. The word given for them after the flood is Rephaim (Reanimated ones).
Aliens my tail. Funny thing about those 'aliens' Is that somehow when they encounter bible believing Christians they flee at the name of Jesus. :) But you'll never here that side of the story.
Truth is, compared to those ancient civilizations we are really ignorant to what is really at work around us. We've become so sophisticated and scientific that we've become fools.
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Pre flood they were called the Nephilim (The ones who came down from the sky. Call them alien if you want) Bible called them sons of God. Book of Enoch claimed they thought men many mysteries and sciences including how to make war, dark magic etc. Sumerian culture/Babylonian/Tower of Babal/Nimrod's Empire clearly depicts these giant beings and gives credit to what they were thought by them. Call them aliens if you want :) Post flood they are encountered in many other places based on the biblical account. The word given for them after the flood is Rephaim (Reanimated ones).
Aliens my tail. Funny thing about those 'aliens' Is that somehow when they encounter bible believing Christians they flee at the name of Jesus. :) But you'll never here that side of the story.
Truth is, compared to those ancient civilizations we are really ignorant to what is really at work around us. We've become so sophisticated and scientific that we've become fools.
God is a Alien :devil:
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how is it that no one questions the inventions of white ppl. the aero plane, space shuttle, computer and other marvelous inventions are far greater than that of the pyramids, but no one is saying that aliens came and gave them the technology, but when it's in africa or in latin america, in their minds "those ppl too dunce to do anything so splendid, so it must be a white man who help them", or some bug eyed spacemen.
Actually some conspiracy theorist claim most of those invention including the laser came for alien tech.
Look up this fellah - Philip J. Corso
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_J._Corso
Personally i believe there is life out there , the probability that we are alone is 1 in Trillions actually greater than that. Whether or not they ever visit here cant answer that one. And yes i was joking before heh :devil:
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One of the very last projects I (a team of us) filmed & edited while at Discovery Communications was a Doc. on King TUT and his ancestral lines. I have some of the photos on FB of my trip to the Pyramids and the Valley of the Kings. When we took MRI of King Tut and recreated his face, the head of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities and Head Archeologist Zahi Hawass, fought us tooth and nail. They did not want us to depict what we had found or what we were lead to recreate with the help of forensic recreations. That project was delayed from 2008 to 2010. Lets just say that Tut, his granny and his family buried their tombs were not european...
I have yet to see europeans with ah question mark head (side profile)
maasai/nubian
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6295_613992841275_7527434_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6295_613992871215_322993_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/6295_613992901155_5620314_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/6295_613992881195_8212419_n.jpg)
Mr. Hawass definitely seems to have an agenda.
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King Tut’s DNA is Western European
Posted by EU Times on Jun 7th, 2010 // 1,032 Comments
Despite the refusal of the Secretary General of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, Zahi Hawass, to release any DNA results which might indicate the racial ancestry of Pharaoh Tutankhamen, the leaked results reveal that King Tut’s DNA is a 99.6 percent match with Western European Y chromosomes.
The DNA test results were inadvertently revealed on a Discovery Channel TV documentary filmed with Hawass’s permission — but it seems as if the Egyptian failed to spot the giveaway part of the documentary which revealed the test results.
Hawass previously announced that he would not release the racial DNA results of Egyptian mummies — obviously because he feared the consequences of such a revelation.
On the Discovery Channel broadcast, which can be seen on the Discovery Channel website here, or if they pull it, on YouTube here, at approximately 1:53 into the video, the camera pans over a printout of DNA test results from King Tut.
Firstly, here is a brief explanation of the results visible in the video. It is a list of what is called Short Tandem Repeats (STRs).
STRs are repeated DNA sequences which are “short repeat units” whose characteristics make them especially suitable for human identification.
These STR values for 17 markers visible in the video are as follows:
DYS 19 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 385a – 11
DYS 385b – 14
DYS 389i – 13
DYS 389ii – 30
DYS 390 – 24
DYS 391 – 11
DYS 392 – 13
DYS 393 – 13
DYS 437 – 14 (? not clear)
DYS 438 – 12
DYS 439 – 10
DYS 448 – 19
DYS 456 – 15
DYS 458 – 16
DYS 635 – 23
YGATAH4 – 11
What does this mean? Fortunately, a genius by the name of Whit Athey provides the key to this list. Mr Athey is a retired physicist whose working career was primarily at the Food and Drug Administration where he was chief of one of the medical device labs.
Mr Athey received his doctorate in physics and biochemistry at Tufts University, and undergraduate (engineering) and masters (math) degrees at Auburn University. For several years during the 1980s, he also taught one course each semester in the electrical engineering department of the University of Maryland. Besides his interest in genetic genealogy, he is an amateur astronomer and has his own small observatory near his home in Brookeville, MD.
He also runs a very valuable website called the “Haplogroup Predictor” which allows users to input STR data and generate the haplogroup which marks those STR data.
For those who want to know what a haplogroup is, here is a “simple” definition: a haplogroup is a group of similar haplotypes that share a common ancestor with a single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) mutation.
Still none the wiser? Damn these scientists.
Ok, let’s try it this way: a haplotype is a combination of multiple specific locations of a gene or DNA sequence on a chromosome.
Haplogroups are assigned letters of the alphabet, and refinements consist of additional number and letter combinations, for example R1b or R1b1. Y-chromosome and mitochondrial DNA haplogroups have different haplogroup designations. In essence, haplogroups give an inisight into ancestral origins dating back thousands of years.
By entering all the STR data inadvertently shown on the Discovery video, a 99.6 percent fit with the R1b haplogroup is revealed.
The significance is, of course, that R1b is the most common Y-chromosome haplogroup in Europe reaching its highest concentrations in Ireland, Scotland, western England and the European Atlantic seaboard — in other words, European through and through.
http://www.eutimes.net/2010/06/king-tuts-dna-is-western-european/
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One of the very last projects I (a team of us) filmed & edited while at Discovery Communications was a Doc. on King TUT and his ancestral lines. I have some of the photos on FB of my trip to the Pyramids and the Valley of the Kings. When we took MRI of King Tut and recreated his face, the head of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities and Head Archeologist Zahi Hawass, fought us tooth and nail. They did not want us to depict what we had found or what we were lead to recreate with the help of forensic recreations. That project was delayed from 2008 to 2010. Lets just say that Tut, his granny and his family buried their tombs were not european...
I have yet to see europeans with ah question mark head (side profile)
maasai/nubian
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6295_613992841275_7527434_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6295_613992871215_322993_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/6295_613992901155_5620314_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/6295_613992881195_8212419_n.jpg)
WTF you is a secret agent ah what ? You have rel stories dread :thinking:
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Don't mean to over throw the thread but on the idea of Aliens etc. here are some facts on space travel.
The closest galaxy to ours is 2mill light years away. Now light speed is 180,000 mps. (Can't remember exactly). A vessel at light speed would take 2 million years to get here. Now let's say they are from some star in our own galaxy. Even if the travel 1million miles a day it would take them 72,000 years to get to earth. The closet star is called All- something and it's 27.5 trillion miles from earth. :)
Plus space is not a vacuum anything traveling at speed of light will meet those particles in the form of unbelievable radiation. So where could they be from? And what are they?
And BTW JC that whole white man vs black man idea is a relatively new concept, no more that 4-5 hundred years old. It's a New World device that worked. But in the old world it was really about rich and poor and no one could deny the contributions of people with dark skin. People of color had some many great empires.
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Don't mean to over throw the thread but on the idea of Aliens etc. here are some facts on space travel.
The closest galaxy to ours is 2mill light years away. Now light speed is 180,000 mps. (Can't remember exactly). A vessel at light speed would take 2 million years to get here. Now let's say they are from some star in our own galaxy. Even if the travel 1million miles a day it would take them 72,000 years to get to earth. The closet star is called All- something and it's 27.5 trillion miles from earth. :)
Plus space is not a vacuum anything traveling at speed of light will meet those particles in the form of unbelievable radiation. So where could they be from? And what are they?
And BTW JC that whole white man vs black man idea is a relatively new concept, no more that 4-5 hundred years old. It's a New World device that worked. But in the old world it was really about rich and poor and no one could deny the contributions of people with dark skin. People of color had some many great empires.
That is based on physics as we know it presently....hence the reason for theories of space, time, wormholes etc.
I have been to Egypt and when you step in front of the pyramids, it blows you away like...."how de hell dey do dat?" When you look at the joints in some of the stonework, the intricate detail of the artifacts and the sheer size of the blocks, it really makes you wonder.."is modern man missing something?"
For all the back and forth love JC usually has with TC (lol), he raises some valid points that people doh really answer or choose to quietly ignore. In fact, Football supporter took the JC's same question and just asked it in a different way. No one questions Da Vinci and company because it is simply accepted without question that their work was a work of genius....not a man in an observatory communing with aliens.
No one really asks why the Egyptian libraries or Mayan libraries were destroyed, why the Sphinx's nose was used as target practice, or why many of the statues in egypt have their noses broken off.
Interesting thread nonetheless.........
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Don't mean to over throw the thread but on the idea of Aliens etc. here are some facts on space travel.
The closest galaxy to ours is 2mill light years away. Now light speed is 180,000 mps. (Can't remember exactly). A vessel at light speed would take 2 million years to get here. Now let's say they are from some star in our own galaxy. Even if the travel 1million miles a day it would take them 72,000 years to get to earth. The closet star is called All- something and it's 27.5 trillion miles from earth. :)
Plus space is not a vacuum anything traveling at speed of light will meet those particles in the form of unbelievable radiation. So where could they be from? And what are they?
And BTW JC that whole white man vs black man idea is a relatively new concept, no more that 4-5 hundred years old. It's a New World device that worked. But in the old world it was really about rich and poor and no one could deny the contributions of people with dark skin. People of color had some many great empires.
What lion said. Man thought the earth was flat at one time. Man only existing just a small part in time. There are planets that were around billions of years before us. That means somewhere out there, somebody has a few billion years advantage over us. There are many things we as humans ain't begin to touch yet. We are new kids on the block. Whether or not we were visited is still up for debate, but I would not doubt it.
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Don't mean to over throw the thread but on the idea of Aliens etc. here are some facts on space travel.
The closest galaxy to ours is 2mill light years away. Now light speed is 180,000 mps. (Can't remember exactly). A vessel at light speed would take 2 million years to get here. Now let's say they are from some star in our own galaxy. Even if the travel 1million miles a day it would take them 72,000 years to get to earth. The closet star is called All- something and it's 27.5 trillion miles from earth. :)
Plus space is not a vacuum anything traveling at speed of light will meet those particles in the form of unbelievable radiation. So where could they be from? And what are they?
And BTW JC that whole white man vs black man idea is a relatively new concept, no more that 4-5 hundred years old. It's a New World device that worked. But in the old world it was really about rich and poor and no one could deny the contributions of people with dark skin. People of color had some many great empires.
Wildly inaccurate! I really hate bold statements of fact, when they are easily verified. I mean you are on the internet. It don't take long.
Your whole post loses credibility to scientific minds.
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When we were researching this project, we found that there had been numerous Pyramid like structures scattered through out Northern Africa and the Sahara from Zanzibar, Sudan and the largest being in Egypt. The African Pyramids are not uniquely Egypt, but their immensity is! The paintings on the walls of KV62 and other chambers had faces and skin that is dark. I mean there was color compositions that were used on parts of the paintings were white, or cream color, why paint the faces of Tut and his family dark brown. Tut name's meaning was supposed to be "son or walking image of anul" Anul is dark in all depictions that I have found.
@ JC a lot of times these projects are privately funded and the funders have a say in the outcome in the final product. Eg is the T-Rex an apex predator or a scavenger, anatomically it's a scavenger but depicted as a predator.... or what was it's true color composition. A lot of times the artist rendition is heavily influenced by external factors or executive input. Would you like to be told that your whole history was based on a misconception?
Most Egyptians (today) don't consider themselves black, and despise being called "African"
@DHW no but I travelled a lot!
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@DHW no but I travelled a lot!
Amazing :beermug:
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When we were researching this project, we found that there had been numerous Pyramid like structures scattered through out Northern Africa and the Sahara from Zanzibar, Sudan and the largest being in Egypt. The African Pyramids are not uniquely Egypt, but their immensity is! The paintings on the walls of KV62 and other chambers had faces and skin that is dark. I mean there was color compositions that were used on parts of the paintings were white, or cream color, why paint the faces of Tut and his family dark brown. Tut name's meaning was supposed to be "son or walking image of anul" Anul is dark in all depictions that I have found.
@ JC a lot of times these projects are privately funded and the funders have a say in the outcome in the final product. Eg is the T-Rex an apex predator or a scavenger, anatomically it's a scavenger but depicted as a predator.... or what was it's true color composition. A lot of times the artist rendition is heavily influenced by external factors or executive input. Would you like to be told that your whole history was based on a misconception?
Most Egyptians (today) don't consider themselves black, and despise being called "African"
@DHW no but I travelled a lot!
Nice post.........Doh forget that the pyramids in Egypt and througout Mexico were based on a Pi ratio (when Pi was supposed to be "dscovered" by the Greeks)
I have to remember that one....son of Anil....How Anil reach dey anyway? ;D
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I saw in Central America there are alot more pyramids but most of them the forest have taken them over. But from above you will see the peaks above the trees. Archaeologist simply don't have the money and time yet to go through all
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One of the very last projects I (a team of us) filmed & edited while at Discovery Communications was a Doc. on King TUT and his ancestral lines. I have some of the photos on FB of my trip to the Pyramids and the Valley of the Kings. When we took MRI of King Tut and recreated his face, the head of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities and Head Archeologist Zahi Hawass, fought us tooth and nail. They did not want us to depict what we had found or what we were lead to recreate with the help of forensic recreations. That project was delayed from 2008 to 2010. Lets just say that Tut, his granny and his family buried their tombs were not european...
I have yet to see europeans with ah question mark head (side profile)
maasai/nubian
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6295_613992841275_7527434_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6295_613992871215_322993_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/6295_613992901155_5620314_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/6295_613992881195_8212419_n.jpg)
WTF you is a secret agent ah what ? You have rel stories dread :thinking:
"Stay thirsty my friends!"
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So because he has that type of DNA mean he is/was? So all them half chinee ting in T&T from/is China/ese ???
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Nice post.........Doh forget that the pyramids in Egypt and througout Mexico were based on a Pi ratio (when Pi was supposed to be "dscovered" by the Greeks)
I have to remember that one....son of Anil....How Anil reach dey anyway? ;D
ASK ANIL ASK ANIL!!
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One of the very last projects I (a team of us) filmed & edited while at Discovery Communications was a Doc. on King TUT and his ancestral lines. I have some of the photos on FB of my trip to the Pyramids and the Valley of the Kings. When we took MRI of King Tut and recreated his face, the head of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities and Head Archeologist Zahi Hawass, fought us tooth and nail. They did not want us to depict what we had found or what we were lead to recreate with the help of forensic recreations. That project was delayed from 2008 to 2010. Lets just say that Tut, his granny and his family buried their tombs were not european...
I have yet to see europeans with ah question mark head (side profile)
maasai/nubian
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6295_613992841275_7527434_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/6295_613992871215_322993_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/6295_613992901155_5620314_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/6295_613992881195_8212419_n.jpg)
WTF you is a secret agent ah what ? You have rel stories dread :thinking:
"Stay thirsty my friends!"
Lol for real.
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I am going to see his mummy and and artifacts at the pacific Science center in Washington state this wknd. Should be interesting.
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Don't mean to over throw the thread but on the idea of Aliens etc. here are some facts on space travel.
The closest galaxy to ours is 2mill light years away. Now light speed is 180,000 mps. (Can't remember exactly). A vessel at light speed would take 2 million years to get here. Now let's say they are from some star in our own galaxy. Even if the travel 1million miles a day it would take them 72,000 years to get to earth. The closet star is called All- something and it's 27.5 trillion miles from earth. :)
Plus space is not a vacuum anything traveling at speed of light will meet those particles in the form of unbelievable radiation. So where could they be from? And what are they?
And BTW JC that whole white man vs black man idea is a relatively new concept, no more that 4-5 hundred years old. It's a New World device that worked. But in the old world it was really about rich and poor and no one could deny the contributions of people with dark skin. People of color had some many great empires.
Absolute crapola!!!!! ever since the white man set foot in africa the difference was quite noticeable and became an issue, the blackman distrust of the white man was evident, vise versa. the blackman felt that the whiteman was cursed and it showed in the way they conducted themselves.
whites came from a very hostile environment, months of coldness and months of intense heat.
in the cold months white ppl could not forage so they basically lived like hibernating animals, they stored up food for the whole season and hunted very little in the cold months and some months they would literally starve.
their hygiene was also very bad bc of the climate, abstaining from bathing for the whole winter months was normal, this happened all the way till the european Renaissance and beyond, in other words, no hot showers equals plenty perfume, so when he went into africa and saw the abundance of food and water he became grudging.
the black man on the other hand could not understand the ferocity of the white race, and gained a serious mistrust for him, so they came to the conclusion that they were cursed devils. the whiteman on the other hand hated the blackman bc of his looks, the black man was course and rugged, which lead the whiteman to believe that black ppl were animal like (close to animals).
there is a passage in the apocrapha where judah ben macabbe spoke of the greek invasion , and he said, "there were conquerors and wars amongst man kind for centuries, but nothing compared to these people (the greeks), they are the worst of all beings bc they had no heart and no morals", something to that effect, but go read the apocrypha and see how the israelites describe the white race during the greek conquest.
breds, the greeks were the first taste the middle east and africa got of the white race, and it left a lasting effect on them. read herodotus and see how the greeks considered blacks, and then come back and tell me that this concept of black and white is only"400" yrs old.
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Don't mean to over throw the thread but on the idea of Aliens etc. here are some facts on space travel.
The closest galaxy to ours is 2mill light years away. Now light speed is 180,000 mps. (Can't remember exactly). A vessel at light speed would take 2 million years to get here. Now let's say they are from some star in our own galaxy. Even if the travel 1million miles a day it would take them 72,000 years to get to earth. The closet star is called All- something and it's 27.5 trillion miles from earth. :)
Plus space is not a vacuum anything traveling at speed of light will meet those particles in the form of unbelievable radiation. So where could they be from? And what are they?
And BTW JC that whole white man vs black man idea is a relatively new concept, no more that 4-5 hundred years old. It's a New World device that worked. But in the old world it was really about rich and poor and no one could deny the contributions of people with dark skin. People of color had some many great empires.
What lion said. Man thought the earth was flat at one time. Man only existing just a small part in time. There are planets that were around billions of years before us. That means somewhere out there, somebody has a few billion years advantage over us. There are many things we as humans ain't begin to touch yet. We are new kids on the block. Whether or not we were visited is still up for debate, but I would not doubt it.
Yute, ah don't want tuh come @ yuh hard, but yuh forcing meh hand. bredder, this whole alien thing in regard to ancient civilizations is ah white supremacist conspiracy, trust! the whiteman could only go back as far as the greeks, don't you see that they said the greeks gave the world culture, they was talking bout their culture!
before the greeks there were hundreds if not more "thriving" civilizations on the planet. the ethiopians, the nubians, sumerians all had great civilizations, the chaldeans, the midianites, the chinese, the harrapan civilization in india, the empire of sheba in yemen (saba), the civilization of iram, the city in the desert(petra) and so many more! yet these jokers will go as far as to say that the greeks gave the world culture, what ah big fat fackin lie!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra
fellas like Socrates, aristotle, plato and pythagoras the thief, all learned from the "ancient" egyptians. mr theiving pythagoras went as far as to say that he's the founder of mathematics, when the sumerians and egyptians were using mathematical equations thousands of yrs before pythagoras.
hippocrates said he was the father of medicine, when imohtep the great was using medicine and performing surgery way before the first man who claim to perform surgery in the european renaissance.
breds, doh get tied up, mankind ain't as fackin stupid as these arseholes would make yuh feel. these ppl hide history science and worldy knowledge all in the name of world dominance. yeh the ancients needed aliens to show them how to build things, but the white race accomplishments all came from intelligence through trial and error right?
BTW, which one is harder to produce, ah fackin aero plane or ah civilization made form clay and big stone?? i would say a plane for sure! ah wonder why no body never claimed an alien may have taught the wright brothers about aero dynamics? :thinking:
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Don't mean to over throw the thread but on the idea of Aliens etc. here are some facts on space travel.
The closest galaxy to ours is 2mill light years away. Now light speed is 180,000 mps. (Can't remember exactly). A vessel at light speed would take 2 million years to get here. Now let's say they are from some star in our own galaxy. Even if the travel 1million miles a day it would take them 72,000 years to get to earth. The closet star is called All- something and it's 27.5 trillion miles from earth. :)
Plus space is not a vacuum anything traveling at speed of light will meet those particles in the form of unbelievable radiation. So where could they be from? And what are they?
And BTW JC that whole white man vs black man idea is a relatively new concept, no more that 4-5 hundred years old. It's a New World device that worked. But in the old world it was really about rich and poor and no one could deny the contributions of people with dark skin. People of color had some many great empires.
Absolute crapola!!!!! ever since the white man set foot in africa the difference was quite noticeable and became an issue, the blackman distrust of the white man was evident, vise versa. the blackman felt that the whiteman was cursed and it showed in the way they conducted themselves.
whites came from a very hostile environment, months of coldness and months of intense heat.
in the cold months white ppl could not forage so they basically lived like hibernating animals, they stored up food for the whole season and hunted very little in the cold months and some months they would literally starve.
their hygiene was also very bad bc of the climate, abstaining from bathing for the whole winter months was normal, this happened all the way till the european Renaissance and beyond, in other words, no hot showers equals plenty perfume, so when he went into africa and saw the abundance of food and water he became grudging.
the black man on the other hand could not understand the ferocity of the white race, and gained a serious mistrust for him, so they came to the conclusion that they were cursed devils. the whiteman on the other hand hated the blackman bc of his looks, the black man was course and rugged, which lead the whiteman to believe that black ppl were animal like (close to animals).
there is a passage in the apocrapha where judah ben macabbe spoke of the greek invasion , and he said, "there were conquerors and wars amongst man kind for centuries, but nothing compared to these people (the greeks), they are the worst of all beings bc they had no heart and no morals", something to that effect, but go read the apocrypha and see how the israelites describe the white race during the greek conquest.
breds, the greeks were the first taste the middle east and africa got of the white race, and it left a lasting effect on them. read herodotus and see how the greeks considered blacks, and then come back and tell me that this concept of black and white is only"400" yrs old.
jc, yuh putting your own interpretation of white and black on top of the classical historians who talk about greeks and egyptians not white and black. doh conflate the two. yuh trying to pass a 6 for a 9.
another thing is egyptians didn't treat their african neighbours like dey was brethren. the greeks get similar treatment as other tribes outside of egypt. so again is not white vs black. is egypt vs non-egypt and greeks vs non-greeks. yuh had to build alliances back then. that's why when rome came on to the scene, egypt was rome's best friend because they were going to counterbalance the other powers in the region. again, is not this white vs. black monkey business yuh trying to push.
and yuh making like is geography and climate that dictate how people behave like yuh is a jared diamond disciple. why, in a land of such abundance as de congo, dey have the worst civil conflict in the world over the last generation? millions dead but plenty of resources to share. fact is the worst enemy of africans is other africans.
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Ah hate it when ever you join ah topic mr kakahole rabbit, so do me a fackin favor and stay out of this wid yuh sympathizing uncle tom arse, pleaseeeee!!
asrehole, the greeks was the first white race to malign black people. aristotle and herodotus dem hated blacks, and any black civilization, that is why they never gave credit to the egyptians and the sumarians for the technology and education they recieved, instead they tried to make it their own.
FYI, if you think that skin color and race made no difference and every thing was about tribes and nations, then read what herodtus had to say about the egytians and the ethiopians, yuh fackin stooge, and BTW, if yuh so informed, tell me why abbysinia is called ethiopia today? and while yuh @ it, could you tell me what "ethiopia" means if color was not important and relevant back then ?
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Anybody mentioned the research by Cheik Anta Diop yet?
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Just to add a little white perspective here....the majority of ordinary Anglo Saxons don't consider Greeks and Turks as white. Nor do they consider Latinos such as Spanish, Portuguese and Italians (and even French) as white.
Scandinavians may be white, but "they ain't like us". Celts (usually defined as Gingers - pronounced Gingas) are reluctantly accepted. So, the only "real" whites are English, Dutch, Belgians, Germans, Austrians and some Russians. And English people don't consider themselves associated with those nationalities either. (apparently I am 25% German, and the only advantage that gives me is that I score 1 in 4 penalties!) But people are so mixed these days, unless someone is overtly different in appearance, white people often can't tell who's who!
However, some people in T&T assume I am Spanish. I usually first get offended, and then wonder how somebody could be so stupid as to assume I'm Spanish. I may now be classed as a redman due to my tan, but most Spanish people have an entirely different skin tone. Confusing me with a Spaniard is like confusing me with a Japanese in my opinion.
Which is funny considering many white people assume all black people are African unless they have a rass, which, of course makes them Jamaican.
My point to all of this is that whatever race you are from, there will always be people who are stupid enough to categorise people and their traits by their colour.
Now you may think this is wrong, but we all harbour tribal racism to some degree. Many African countries are divided on a tribal basis. Eastern Europe was mashed up over tribal issues. The Indian sub continent is bitterly divided. Trinis aren't like Jamaicans. Trini Indians are different to Trini Africans.
Whether or not my race stole ideas from black people I just don't know. But I know that while peoples of all colours across the world were building great civilisations, we were living in huts. So it just shows that whatever those white supremacists say, the facts don't lie. Maybe Greeks and Romans think they're the mutts nuts, but us Anglos didn't really cause havoc until after we were conquered by the French.
Once we hit the middle ages, we pushed out into the world by practically enslaving our own people and treating them like shit. The same serfdom used to control the filthy masses is very similar to how many developing countries are controlled today (maybe even in T&T to a lesser degree). And Britain still hasn't completely eradicated the class system.
I have no idea if it was Anglos, Latins or whoever who first bought slaves from Africa. All I know is that is was wrong on so many levels and none of my family over the last 3 (at least) generations had anything to do with it.
So why we have to turn a sensible and interesting debate into a cussing match, I don't know. There are some very interesting points being made and I'm certainly learning new stuff. But there is also a lot of hate and bile, none of which is useful as it just makes you switch off.
No one should forget past atrocities, but trying to visit those atrocities on the distant ancestors of those perpetrators just leads to a widening of the divide. We can't make the world all one colour, (at least not for another century or so) but we can eventually eradicate institutional racism. Those individuals that are left should be dealt with as individuals and not representative of their race.
Of course, I'll expect a response to this, but I really hope it is without the name calling and the hatred.
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And here I was thinking that all black people WERE indeed African even when they do have a ras.
lol
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And here I was thinking that all black people WERE indeed African even when they do have a ras.
lol
Point taken. Bad syntax. :beermug:
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However, some people in T&T assume I am Spanish. I usually first get offended, and then wonder how somebody could be so stupid as to assume I'm Spanish. I may now be classed as a redman due to my tan, but most Spanish people have an entirely different skin tone. Confusing me with a Spaniard is like confusing me with a Japanese in my opinion.
People calling you "spanish" is not the same as confusing you for a Spaniard. A Spaniard would likely be called "white" in Trinidad, whereas "spanish" is more equivalent to a Puerto Rican or Venezuelan... aka, a 'red man'. Just go with it... doh try and make sense outta it, lol.
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Don't mean to over throw the thread but on the idea of Aliens etc. here are some facts on space travel.
The closest galaxy to ours is 2mill light years away. Now light speed is 180,000 mps. (Can't remember exactly). A vessel at light speed would take 2 million years to get here. Now let's say they are from some star in our own galaxy. Even if the travel 1million miles a day it would take them 72,000 years to get to earth. The closet star is called All- something and it's 27.5 trillion miles from earth. :)
Plus space is not a vacuum anything traveling at speed of light will meet those particles in the form of unbelievable radiation. So where could they be from? And what are they?
And BTW JC that whole white man vs black man idea is a relatively new concept, no more that 4-5 hundred years old. It's a New World device that worked. But in the old world it was really about rich and poor and no one could deny the contributions of people with dark skin. People of color had some many great empires.
What lion said. Man thought the earth was flat at one time. Man only existing just a small part in time. There are planets that were around billions of years before us. That means somewhere out there, somebody has a few billion years advantage over us. There are many things we as humans ain't begin to touch yet. We are new kids on the block. Whether or not we were visited is still up for debate, but I would not doubt it.
Yute, ah don't want tuh come @ yuh hard, but yuh forcing meh hand. bredder, this whole alien thing in regard to ancient civilizations is ah white supremacist conspiracy, trust! the whiteman could only go back as far as the greeks, don't you see that they said the greeks gave the world culture, they was talking bout their culture!
before the greeks there were hundreds if not more "thriving" civilizations on the planet. the ethiopians, the nubians, sumerians all had great civilizations, the chaldeans, the midianites, the chinese, the harrapan civilization in india, the empire of sheba in yemen (saba), the civilization of iram, the city in the desert(petra) and so many more! yet these jokers will go as far as to say that the greeks gave the world culture, what ah big fat fackin lie!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra
fellas like Socrates, aristotle, plato and pythagoras the thief, all learned from the "ancient" egyptians. mr theiving pythagoras went as far as to say that he's the founder of mathematics, when the sumerians and egyptians were using mathematical equations thousands of yrs before pythagoras.
hippocrates said he was the father of medicine, when imohtep the great was using medicine and performing surgery way before the first man who claim to perform surgery in the european renaissance.
breds, doh get tied up, man aint as fackin stupid as these arseholes would make yuh feel. these ppl hide history science and worldy knowledge all in the name of world dominance. yeh the ancients needed aliens to show them how to build things, but the white race accomplishments all came from intelligence through trial and error right?
BTW, which one is harder to produce, ah fackin aero plane or ah civilization made form clay and big stone?? i would say a plane for sure! ah wonder why no body never claimed an alien may have taught the wright brothers about aero dynamics? :thinking:
Yes I get all yuh points JC, like I said before I was joking with the alien thing from the start, I have no solid proof they were ever here.
(off topic) But my direct response to preacher and his space travel statement is valid. We can't claim we know everything about space, when we don't know everything.
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However, some people in T&T assume I am Spanish. I usually first get offended, and then wonder how somebody could be so stupid as to assume I'm Spanish. I may now be classed as a redman due to my tan, but most Spanish people have an entirely different skin tone. Confusing me with a Spaniard is like confusing me with a Japanese in my opinion.
People calling you "spanish" is not the same as confusing you for a Spaniard. A Spaniard would likely be called "white" in Trinidad, whereas "spanish" is more equivalent to a Puerto Rican or Venezuelan... aka, a 'red man'. Just go with it... doh try and make sense outta it, lol.
:beermug: Well, if I ever need to, I can claim the World Cup and over the next 2 weeks it might be preferable to being English lol
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:beermug: Well, if I ever need to, I can claim the World Cup and over the next 2 weeks it might be preferable to being English lol
When did Venezuela win de World Cup???
;D
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:beermug: Well, if I ever need to, I can claim the World Cup and over the next 2 weeks it might be preferable to being English lol
When did Venezuela win de World Cup???
;D
I'll have to check with the Minister of State in the Ministry of South American Football History to get that info :angel:
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yuh had to build alliances back then. that's why when rome came on to the scene, egypt was rome's best friend because they were going to counterbalance the other powers in the region.
Why must you constantly come on the board with yuh personal feelings and yuh simple simon subjective views instead of understanding the nature of the situation and contribute positively to the discourse?
i not trying to win no argument here bro, bc in the end, i have nothing to gain. all i doing is helping to shed light on the situation, although the reality is, and as hard as it is to accept, these greeks were racially motivated, it's totally true, live with it!
as for the (black) egyptians forming alliances with the (white) romans, bro, do you know how many kingdoms were in egypt over their 4,000 yr reign? there were three major kingdoms. the old kingdom, the new kingdom, and between the two kingdoms had two intermediate periods, then egypt suffered a wealth of invasions from outside invaders.
from the hyksos to the persians were outsiders trying to over turn egypt, then the last kingdom was the ptolemaic dynasties who were greek invaders that took control from the persians.
the egypt you talking bout was from the ptolemaic dynasties, which were 100% greek (white folks). after alexander the battyhole conquered egypt "from the persians" his 2nd in command general ptolemy took rule and established a dynastic for 300 yrs spanning from 332 bce to 30 bc, in the late yrs of the ptolemaic dynasty the romans traded and allied them selves with the greeks for a short time until they were strong enough to finally conquer and took power from the greeks and establish their own rule over egypt.
as for egypt forming alliances with rome, the pharohs of the 18 dynasties and before were firm believers in the fact that they descended from the "gods" and would not share their rulership with mare mortals, so there was absolutely no alliance between the old and new kingdom with rome.
lemme suggest something, instead of rushin gto defend ah ppl who don't give ah fork bout yuh, i recommend learning about a subject before you comment, it real easy too nowadays, all yuh have to do is use google, and you wiil get all the answers you want. ;)why, in a land of such abundance as de congo, dey have the worst civil conflict in the world over the last generation?
bredder, another case of not doing research. man, ppl have been going to war for centuries, especially in place where there were resources in plenty, that is elementary, even a 9 yr old could understand that.
right there in the middleast, ppl have been warring for milleniums over fertile land, water supply, trade routes, hunting territory, but that still don't make them savages. the whiteman's disposition coming out of europe was that of a hungry beast, when they entered warmer climates and saw the abundance of food and minerals, they went nuts!!
they not only wanted to share in it, they wanted it all! these tribes who lived side by side in africa and the middlest did not go around colonizing each other, though they fought wars for centuries, it was never about having a monopoly in the region, but rather over things they needed to survive.
as for the congo and their recent wars, bro don't let your eyes and the media deceive yuh, bc if you look closely, you will find the west as the biggest protagonist behind the scenes of those wars. don't you know that the congo has the most mineral resources in the entire world??
under the soil in the congo lies resources that the common man is not even privy to. the congo has minerals that would propel the world for the next 5,000 yrs, and the west wants to be in total control of it.
there is a mineral that is used in the production of cell phones that only the congo has, among many others. the congo is the key to who rules the world of economics and technology in the future.
so sit there with yuh fackin eyes close and stay deaf, and believe every thing the media feed yuh and don't get up and read and educate yuh self on what's really going on this planet.
in this white supremacist economic world system and climate, yuh cyar afford tuh sleep, so yuh better stay sharp.
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JC I have always said that you have a wealth of information and many good points but sometimes it is lost in the delivery.....but I get what you saying. People often choose to see what they want to see and ignore the facts before them....like the coltan mines in congo and the mineral wealth of africa.
People made a big thing about the movie blood diamonds (and it has helped things), but ignored the fact the boys in Antwerp controlled the whole thing all along. Instead they choose to focus on the atrocities on the ground in Africa instead of the root cause.
In a sense you are right about egypt history since there were changes in power over time between the north and south where as I recall the nubians were from the south and of darker complexion..hence the differences in depictions over time. The Greeks and romans came much much later.
With regard to the article, just because it is in JAMA does not make it completely legit. There has to be an analysis of the tests used, reliability etc, if the results were interpreted correctly or if the scientist extrapolated on weak data.
Feel free to correct me.,...
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JC I have always said that you have a wealth of information and many good points but sometimes it is lost in the delivery.....but I get what you saying. People often choose to see what they want to see and ignore the facts before them....like the coltan mines in congo and the mineral wealth of africa.
People made a big thing about the movie blood diamonds (and it has helped things), but ignored the fact the boys in Antwerp controlled the whole thing all along. Instead they choose to focus on the atrocities on the ground in Africa instead of the root cause.
In a sense you are right about egypt history since there were changes in power over time between the north and south where as I recall the nubians were from the south and of darker complexion..hence the differences in depictions over time. The Greeks and romans came much much later.
With regard to the article, just because it is in JAMA does not make it completely legit. There has to be an analysis of the tests used, reliability etc, if the results were interpreted correctly or if the scientist extrapolated on weak data.
Feel free to correct me.,...
Bro, in all honesty, i don't care if tut was ah white boy or not, IMO he did shyte for egypt as far as i'm concerned.
i'm really not surprised either, since he came to the end of the great dynasties that preceded him. the pyramids were already build by sneferu and the great khufu, the great monuments and sphinx were already there so who cares. he was also born after the great conquest of the hyksos, who was an euro asiatic ppl who ruled parts of egypt around the 12th and 13th dynasty 1700s bc so anything is possible.
i know one things for sure, the old kingdom and middle kingdom rulers were black as midnight! fellas like khufu, menkaura, mentuhotep the 2nd and amenemhet the 3rd, was all black african looking kings, and dem fellas was the crowning glory of egypt.
http://wysinger.homestead.com/mentuhotep.html
http://www.ancient-egypt.org/index.html
if the white supremacist want tut, then by all means have him. ;D
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The greeks are credited with being great mathematicians, but early greek writings are devoid of the symbol "0" and without a zero, your math is just based on static measurements. In african culture you find closed loop symbols everywhere and through out all periods of the culture. The Egyptians and the Arabian Peninsular was said to introduce the concept of "zer0" to math. Also the pyramids were built hugely to align with certain astrological formations. Remember before the greeks were discussing philosophy and democracy, Places in Mali were discussing these similar topics on a grandiose scale, medicine was being done also.
I once read that the mythology of the huge stone structures of Easter Island is a representations of their Gods, what does those faces planted through out easter island look like.... not nubian...! I believe that there was a great expansion of knowledge that left Africa during the times of Pharaoh.
I read that there is written evidence of African tribes that spoke a language similar to latin and there are some African names that are really close to chinese, like Gao, Shao, Shin, Huang etc... things that make you go hmmm.
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I have read also that the concept of zero or a concept of zero was developed in India and could have been carried to the middle east by muslim scholars.
http://questionswithanswer.blogspot.com/2008/05/who-invented-concept-of-zero.html
The Mayans are said to have developed a concept of zero.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=history-of-zero
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This LA Times article from 2005 also illustrates further professional divisions over King Tut's ancestry:
Please note the highlighted portion of the article. Daft Trini, I know that you mentioned that you worked on this project. Do you agree with Ahmed Saleh's claims?
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(Copyright (c) 2005 Los Angeles Times)
Zahi Hawass moves through dim galleries at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, a sport-coated platoon leader walking the point on a tense patrol.
The face so often smiling in television specials about ancient Egypt is stern. The brown eyes that shine when he's playing raconteur at sold-out lectures about the pyramids and pharaohs radiate cold intensity as he inspects each object in "Tutankhamun and the Golden Age of the Pharaohs."
"These monuments of Egypt are the heritage of everyone," he says later, and he wants them seen in their best light.
Hawass is Egypt's chief antiquities official, the man primarily responsible for the return of Tut's artifacts a generation after they caused a sensation in American museums in the 1970s. Like an ancient high priest, he must see that the pharaoh's touring treasures are properly arrayed.
Just as in the royal tombs, eternity is at stake. But instead of trying to achieve immortality for Tut's body and soul, Hawass wants to speed the rebirth of a torpid bureaucracy on whose vigor the future of Egyptian antiquity depends.
The Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, which Hawass leads as secretary general, is responsible for the country's monuments and museums. But it has long been overshadowed by Europeans and Americans, who have the leading schools of Egyptology and, before Hawass, had run their digs with few restrictions from the impoverished host country.
Now, some Westerners are grumbling about his policies -- especially in England, where his 2003 call for the return of the iconic Rosetta Stone caused alarm. But many are applauding too. Hawass requires archeologists to concentrate on conserving what they've found, rather than digging for new discoveries. And in a field where some love digging more than writing, he insists that finds be published within five years. Otherwise, permit-holders lose the right to keep digging. The result -- less glamour, more desk work, more expense -- has not endeared Hawass to everyone, and his outsized ego makes him an easy target. But experts say that speedy publication expands knowledge and that conservation is a must.
To Hawass, it's all essential if he's to preserve his country's heritage while molding the 30,000-employee antiquities council into a modern priesthood of archeologists, educators and art conservators who will at last make Egypt a leading force in the discovery, protection and display of its ancient riches. He counts on Tut to generate the cash and publicity needed to give his ambitious program a push. Egypt already has received $20 million upfront; he hopes to increase that to $36 million by the end of the 27-month, four-city U.S. tour.
At 58, Hawass has been in charge for three years, with just five more to solidify his initiatives before law mandates he retire. And so, the return of Tut is his moment too. Detractors decry his famous self-promotion; admirers counter that it's his passion and personality that make him effective. Perhaps, they say, his greatest contribution may be that, for the first time, the face of Egyptology is Egyptian.
Hawass is known as an entertaining and exuberant promoter of his nation's antiquities, but to archeological insiders he also is a free-swinging and sometimes autocratic wielder of power.
At the National Geographic Society, where he holds the title of explorer-in-residence, he is known as "The Pharaoh" -- partly, says Tim Kelly, president of the organization's TV division, because he is given to occasional joking threats: "Do this, or I will cut off your head!"
Hawass says nothing as he walks LACMA's Tut layout for the first time, apart from exchanges in Arabic with his six assistants from the Egyptian Museum in Cairo. Then, he enters the final gallery, housing a photographic display dubbed "The Face of Tutankhamun." He stops short, glares from across the room at a latex bust of Tut -- and decides in an instant that he must cut off somebody's head. Specifically, the boy king's. This time, he is not joking.
The Tut head is meant to be the last object in the show, as laid out by its American producers and designers. National Geographic, the tour's creative sponsor, has provided the piece de resistance from a recent TV special in which Hawass presided over the first CT scan of Tut's mummy. Crafted by a French sculptor and forensic anthropologist who worked from the scan, the face already is famous, thanks to television and the cover of this month's National Geographic magazine.
Never mind all that. On this day, the exhibition's opening -- on June 16 -- is just three days away. The model belongs not in a display case, but "in the toilet," Hawass says, shocking an entourage that includes officials from the tour's corporate funder, AEG, and its designer, Arts and Exhibitions International. It's not an authentic art object, he complains, and it's not historic.
"This is an art exhibition. You don't ruin it with speculation." The head can be seen, he decides, but only in photographs. "Then it's perfect."
It's a classic Zahi moment. The sort that puts a fond chuckle in Dorothea Arnold's voice as she speaks by phone from her office at New York's Metropolitan Museum, where she heads the Egyptian art department.
"He's a full person, a full human," says Arnold, who has known Hawass since the 1970s, when she worked on German archeological digs in Egypt. "He's very jolly and very nice to be with, but also he can be very angry. He's not your careful person, and sometimes maybe he goes a bit over. But that's what makes him so inspiring. If you have an outstanding person, maybe you have to live through some more spectacular moments."
Salima Ikram, a Pakistani-born, Bryn Mawr- and Cambridge- educated professor at the American University in Cairo, has worked with Hawass over the last eight years on a variety of projects. She says he can be dictatorial, egotistical and just plain wrong, and he tends to drive his staff and everyone else mercilessly. But he will listen -- really listen -- to those strong enough to stand up to him and make a cogent case for an idea or opinion that contradicts his own. He seeks advice, and logic can win him over.
"It's what makes him charming, as opposed to a pain in the butt," Ikram says.
Hawass' ability to enthrall an audience ranks with an Egyptian flute player's skill at charming a cobra. When he was a small boy, his father would send him -- on the festive nights following the introspective days of Ramadan -- to a sheik who told stories.
Sitting barefoot in a Washington, D.C., hotel room -- to commence the national media blitz before the L.A. opening -- Hawass recalls what it was like to be an overactive 8-year-old gripped by stillness for two hours while an old man told tales from "Arabian Nights."
"I learned from this man the way that you can make people listen," he says.
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He talks, people listen
A few hours later, several hundred people are listening, laughing, then listening some more as Hawass talks about Tut in an auditorium at National Geographic's Washington headquarters. His accent is heavy, his English syntax sometimes skewed. But his delivery engages.
Summing up the intrigue and mystery surrounding Tut, he says: "It's like a play that we don't know the end of the play." But the recent CT scan has filled in a few blanks. "This machine can change the dead to be alive."
The voice moves from piercing staccato when he's being emphatic or argumentative, to smooth and languid in moments of transport. His energy and focus are unflagging. It's like encountering the Arab equivalent of a first-class Irish yarn spinner. There is no lack of blarney.
Hawass considers himself a scientist and a scholar. His 1987 doctorate in Egyptology from the University of Pennsylvania says he is, and he has made significant discoveries in his 37-year career with the Supreme Council -- especially the tombs of the workers who built the pyramids.
But he's also a showman, an entertainer who knows which routines will grab 'em. "There is no mummy's curse," he'll declare simply. Then he'll detail all the spooky legends that gave rise to belief in a curse, and relate the many near-disasters and eerie coincidences in his own life. The mummy's curse, for Hawass, is what a ball of yarn is to a cat: so easy to unravel and tear apart, but since that would end all the fun, why not just keep poking at it and let it roll?
What enchants on TV doesn't play well in some academic circles, says Dennis Forbes, who as editorial director of KMT: A Modern Journal of Ancient Egypt, has watched -- and sometimes published -- Hawass since launching the quarterly in 1990.
"Some people [think] that a true scholar isn't supposed to be a star," Forbes says. "He's wined and dined and lionized," but that can leave him open to barbs and eye-rolling from the Egyptological cognoscenti.
"Zahi is known for making grand statements that have no basis," Forbes says, such as the oft-repeated contention that 70% of Egyptian antiquity still lies buried and waiting to be discovered. Nevertheless, the North Carolina-based editor counts himself firmly in Hawass' corner. "In my experience, he's the first [antiquities chief] who has really had an impassioned attitude toward the job. He's out there. He's everywhere. How he has the energy to do these things is beyond many people's understanding."
Lorelei H. Corcoran, director of the Institute of Egyptian Art and Archeology at the University of Memphis in Tennessee, says she and her students chuckle sometimes at Hawass' romantic pronouncements. But she wouldn't want him to trade his effusiveness for scholarly caution.
"It's a means to attract attention, excite enthusiasm and gain support for the prosaic things we do every day," she says.
If Hawass is a master at outreach, he's a black belt at infighting.
His loftiest target has been Dietrich Wildung, an eminent scholar who runs the Egyptian Museum in Berlin. In 2003, Hawass announced that Egyptian police had a tape of known antiquities thieves talking about the kinds of things Wildung would be willing to buy from them for his museum's collection.
"The ... authorities have incontrovertible evidence that he was involved in the illegal trafficking and buying of antiquities," Hawass wrote in his column for the English edition of the Egyptian newspaper Al-Ahram. But when asked why Egypt, two years later, still hasn't moved to indict Wildung -- as Italian authorities recently did in bringing a case against Marion True, the J. Paul Getty Museum's curator of antiquities -- Hawass acknowledges that the tapes are hearsay that can't prove a case.
Wildung, once friendly with Hawass, is now banned from excavating in Egypt but denies any wrongdoing. He says Hawass is playing to Egyptian public opinion and perhaps retaliating because Wildung criticized him for empty showmanship on a 2001 TV special that put a robot into a pyramid. "For populistic reasons, he has unfortunately invented these stories, which are 500% against my personal conviction and my understanding as a museum professional," Wildung says from his Munich home.
Hawass and his supporters say that banning foreigners if they break the rules -- as he has done in several cases besides Wildung's -- puts teeth behind policies that are in the best interest not only of Egypt, but also of scholarship and preservation. Others express concern that the big stick the secretary general wields could beat down debate and dissent. An archeologist on the periphery of one of Hawass' battles refuses to talk about him: "I plan to go back to Egypt, and I don't want anything that could hold that up."
Within Egypt, Hawass has been brawling lately with critics who question the methodology of the CT scan of Tut's mummy, and the forensic re-creation of his face. Hawass curbed the authority and docked the pay of one persistent foe, Ahmed Saleh, an archeological inspector for the Supreme Council who complained, among other things, that the procedures used in the facial re-creation made Tut look Caucasian, disrespecting the nation's African roots.
Hawass insists he is not angry, vindictive or power mad; firm enforcement of the rules is essential to prevent chaos, he says, given the hundreds of ongoing archeological projects in Egypt and the continued threat of antiquities theft.
"Yes, it's inflammatory," Willeke Wendrich, a UCLA professor of Egyptian archeology, says of Hawass' willingness to attack perceived rule breakers in the press and ban them from excavating. "Maybe cooperation would be better served if he formulated things slightly differently. But it's counterbalancing what has been going on too long, a colonialist attitude that hasn't disappeared even now. I think the way he acts is partly his personality, but it's partly a reaction to a very arrogant treatment of Egyptians and Egyptian officials."
*
Pondering his legacy
In retirement, Hawass -- married to a gynecologist and father of two sons, a physician and a businessman -- says he looks forward to the less grueling and contentious pursuit of writing up his discoveries for scholarly publication. He hopes to spend more time in L.A., where for six summers, from 1996 to 2001, he was a visiting professor in UCLA's department of Near Eastern languages and cultures. He says the greatest monument he will leave behind is a growing Egyptian corps of well-trained, highly motivated and better- paid archeologists, museum curators, antiquities guards and business managers who can carry on a vision that, ultimately, is too big for one man and one life's work.
Ikram, the Cairo-based professor, who is on the editorial board of a scholarly journal published by the Supreme Council, says that Pharaonic antiquity has meant little to most Egyptians and the pyramids have been nothing but a good place to picnic. But that began to change, she says, on the night in 2001 when Hawass went on live TV to send a little robot through a previously unexplored passageway in the Great Pyramid of Khufu at Giza.
"My maid said, 'Oh my God, did you see that program? Do you see what we have in the pyramids?' " Ikram recalls. "For the first time, there's identification, a great deal of pride and awareness."
As she left for a day of teaching university students and planning museum displays, Ikram says her maid, who previously had shown no interest in her employer's job, said something surprising for an Egyptologist to hear in the land whose ancient history and culture Egyptologists study.
"I'm glad you're doing what you're doing."
(Copyright (c) 2005 Los Angeles Times)
http://guardians.net/hawass/articles/Eternal_Egypt_Is_His_Business.htm
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Kalliman hawass believes that the ancient egyptians are the acestors of the modern egyptian, that is why he fights down the concept that the ancient egyptians were black.
this man is one of the biggest, if not "the" biggest racist piece of turd in the world! after all these yrs of being in charge and working with pharaonic artifacts and relics, this man still insist that they were not black, after all the experts anthropologist (black and white) findings, this racist arab still insist that the modern egyptians are descended from the old kingdom pharaohs, what ah c#nt!
he's the worst kind of racist, the kind that likes to change the faces of history.
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Kalliman hawass believes that the ancient egyptians are the acestors of the modern egyptian, that is why he fights down the concept that the ancient egyptians were black.
this man is one of the biggest, if not "the" biggest racist piece of turd in the world! after all these yrs of being in charge and working with pharaonic artifacts and relics, this man still insist that they were not black, after all the experts anthropologist (black and white) findings, this racist arab still insist that the modern egyptians are descended from the old kingdom pharaohs, what ah c#nt!
he's the worst kind of racist, the kind that likes to change the faces of history.
Trust me, you're preaching to a member of the choir here. Of course, it would make sense that there were European pharaohs, given the Ptolemaic rule of Egypt and the Roman 400-year reign of Egypt. However, what many of these Egyptologists curiously gloss over the fact that the Nubian Empire ruled Egypt from712-664 B.C. Thus, there were nubian pharaohs. However, this fact always seems to be in the background.
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Kalliman hawass believes that the ancient egyptians are the acestors of the modern egyptian, that is why he fights down the concept that the ancient egyptians were black.
this man is one of the biggest, if not "the" biggest racist piece of turd in the world! after all these yrs of being in charge and working with pharaonic artifacts and relics, this man still insist that they were not black, after all the experts anthropologist (black and white) findings, this racist arab still insist that the modern egyptians are descended from the old kingdom pharaohs, what ah c#nt!
he's the worst kind of racist, the kind that likes to change the faces of history.
Trust me, you're preaching to a member of the choir here. Of course, it would make sense that there were European pharaohs, given the Ptolemaic rule of Egypt and the Roman 400-year reign of Egypt. However, what many of these Egyptologists curiously gloss over the fact that the Nubian Empire ruled Egypt from712-664 B.C. Thus, there were nubian pharaohs. However, this fact always seems to be in the background.
Now this is the confusing part, bc apart from the nubian Pharaohs (tarharka being one of them) ppl forget that the old kingdom was an extension of nubia, and the first pharonic dynasties were of pure black stock! from menes on down were coal black.
sneferu khufu (the builder of the pyramids) menkaura, mentuhotep. these men were of pure african stock! matter of fact, @ one time in the whole of africa all the way to the fertile crescent all the way to india there was nothing but black skin ppl, some with straight/curly hair and long noses, others with nappy hair and broad noses, it's only until the aryan invasion the region became light skinned, with the greeks and the romans more so.
the only reason africa stayed pure black it's bc in order to get into sub saharan africa was an arduous task so that save black africa from a lot of invasions. the first ppl to really penetrate sub saharan africa was the arab race, then the white race followed suit by way of sea travel, but that whole region @ one time was nothing but the dark race.
i real dislike fellas like haw- ass.
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Kalliman hawass believes that the ancient egyptians are the acestors of the modern egyptian, that is why he fights down the concept that the ancient egyptians were black.
this man is one of the biggest, if not "the" biggest racist piece of turd in the world! after all these yrs of being in charge and working with pharaonic artifacts and relics, this man still insist that they were not black, after all the experts anthropologist (black and white) findings, this racist arab still insist that the modern egyptians are descended from the old kingdom pharaohs, what ah c#nt!
he's the worst kind of racist, the kind that likes to change the faces of history.
Trust me, you're preaching to a member of the choir here. Of course, it would make sense that there were European pharaohs, given the Ptolemaic rule of Egypt and the Roman 400-year reign of Egypt. However, what many of these Egyptologists curiously gloss over the fact that the Nubian Empire ruled Egypt from712-664 B.C. Thus, there were nubian pharaohs. However, this fact always seems to be in the background.
Now this is the confusing part, bc apart from the nubian Pharaohs (tarharka being one of them) ppl forget that the old kingdom was an extension of nubia, and the first pharonic dynasties were of pure black stock! from menes on down were coal black.
sneferu khufu (the builder of the pyramids) menkaura, mentuhotep. these men were of pure african stock! matter of fact, @ one time in the whole of africa all the way to the fertile crescent all the way to india there was nothing but black skin ppl, some with straight/curly hair and long noses, others with nappy hair and broad noses, it's only until the aryan invasion the region became light skinned, with the greeks and the romans more so.
the only reason africa stayed pure black it's bc in order to get into sub saharan africa was an arduous task so that save black africa from a lot of invasions. the first ppl to really penetrate sub saharan africa was the arab race, then the white race followed suit by way of sea travel, but that whole region @ one time was nothing but the dark race.
i real dislike fellas like haw- ass.
Also bear in mind that not all Arabs look like the ones that are featured in the media and that are sanitized for white Western audiences. I know many Arabs, who are indigenous to the Middle East (One of them I know actually sports a dreadlocked hairstyle), and who have the same complexion of many African-descended people. However, as I said, this is not palatable for a Western culture that would probably like to see all dark-skinned people disappear off the planet.
This is the issue that Mr. Hawas has and why he cannot stomach the idea of any African connection to Egypt. Under no circumstances can it be revealed that there is an connection to Egypt. For me the truth is most likely somewhere between the Eurocentric and Afrocentric extremes.
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this is not palatable for a Western culture that would probably like to see all dark-skinned people disappear off the planet.
Kaliman, you're bang on target with this statement. Only tonight I was planning how to murder my Trini girlfriend and my unborn black baby. All of us whites in England don't see the need for all you black people now we can play reggae. :frustrated:
It's fine to put forward your views concerning the incorrect myths circulated by a relatively small number of white fascists, but parroting their hatred against another race makes you just like them. The colour of a persons skin does not determine a racist, what they say does.
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this is not palatable for a Western culture that would probably like to see all dark-skinned people disappear off the planet.
Kaliman, you're bang on target with this statement. Only tonight I was planning how to murder my Trini girlfriend and my unborn black baby. All of us whites in England don't see the need for all you black people now we can play reggae. :frustrated:
It's fine to put forward your views concerning the incorrect myths circulated by a relatively small number of white fascists, but parroting their hatred against another race makes you just like them. The colour of a persons skin does not determine a racist, what they say does.
Breds yuh know what really gets me about white ppl? when other white talk their genocidal talk, other whites take offense bc it brings shame on their race, but you barely see white folks standing up against institutional racism, instead they mind their business and turn a blind eye.
bro i got where kalliman coming from, but you on the other hand is viewing the thing in an extremely subjective way. kalliman not talking about "individual" white man or woman who just wants to survive just like any other man, no!
kalliman is talking about institutional racism, the ppl who wield the power who has been trying to weaken and eradicate the black race, first with drugs and disease, and now with guns,economic deprivation and inferior education so we would not be able to compete with the rest of the world.
doh take things so personal fella, bc for the most part, we really not on the average white fella in the streets, it's the fellas who pulling the strings behind the scenes who's been trying to damage us ever since our stocks dropped due to the abolition, that is who we on.
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this is not palatable for a Western culture that would probably like to see all dark-skinned people disappear off the planet.
Kaliman, you're bang on target with this statement. Only tonight I was planning how to murder my Trini girlfriend and my unborn black baby. All of us whites in England don't see the need for all you black people now we can play reggae. :frustrated:
It's fine to put forward your views concerning the incorrect myths circulated by a relatively small number of white fascists, but parroting their hatred against another race makes you just like them. The colour of a persons skin does not determine a racist, what they say does.
Breds yuh know what really gets me about white ppl? when other white talk their genocidal talk, other whites take offense bc it brings shame on their race, but you barely see white folks standing up against institutional racism, instead they mind their business and turn a blind eye.
bro i got where kalliman coming from, but you on the other hand is viewing the thing in an extremely subjective way. kalliman not talking about "individual" white man or woman who just wants to survive just like any other man, no!
kalliman is talking about institutional racism, the ppl who wield the power who has been trying to weaken and eradicate the black race, first with drugs and disease, and now with guns,economic deprivation and inferior education so we would not be able to compete with the rest of the world.
doh take things so personal fella, bc for the most part, we really not on the average white fella in the streets, it's the fellas who pulling the strings behind the scenes who's been trying to damage us ever since our stocks dropped due to the abolition, that is who we on.
@ Football Supporter. I sincerely apologize for how I phrased what I said. I did not mean that all white people want to see black people disappear. What I should have said, is, as Just Cool summarized, there are powerful interests within the white power structure that would not mind if black people disappeared. You and I both know that there are clear examples of this in history.
So in summary, this is what I meant to convey.
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this is not palatable for a Western culture that would probably like to see all dark-skinned people disappear off the planet.
Kaliman, you're bang on target with this statement. Only tonight I was planning how to murder my Trini girlfriend and my unborn black baby. All of us whites in England don't see the need for all you black people now we can play reggae. :frustrated:
It's fine to put forward your views concerning the incorrect myths circulated by a relatively small number of white fascists, but parroting their hatred against another race makes you just like them. The colour of a persons skin does not determine a racist, what they say does.
Breds yuh know what really gets me about white ppl? when other white talk their genocidal talk, other whites take offense bc it brings shame on their race, but you barely see white folks standing up against institutional racism, instead they mind their business and turn a blind eye.
bro i got where kalliman coming from, but you on the other hand is viewing the thing in an extremely subjective way. kalliman not talking about "individual" white man or woman who just wants to survive just like any other man, no!
kalliman is talking about institutional racism, the ppl who wield the power who has been trying to weaken and eradicate the black race, first with drugs and disease, and now with guns,economic deprivation and inferior education so we would not be able to compete with the rest of the world.
doh take things so personal fella, bc for the most part, we really not on the average white fella in the streets, it's the fellas who pulling the strings behind the scenes who's been trying to damage us ever since our stocks dropped due to the abolition, that is who we on.
Mate, I hear you, but you known there are idiots out there - from all races - that don't have the brains to think things through. When statements like that are made, they take them literally, believe them and that fuels the fire of racism.
In my opinion, in UK, whites are pretty quick to identify institutional racism. What they don't do well, me included, is take some of the accusations seriously. For instance, in school teachers wrote on a blackboard. It was called a blackboard because black was the best colour to make the white chalk visible. The politically correct numpties have outlawed the word blackboard and schools now have chalkboards. I have no idea why the word blackboard is offensive. It probably wasn't offensive, at least not to any black people I know, but these liberals paranoia to prove they are sympathetic to black peoples feelings went to stupid levels.
You maybe correct that white people are over sensitive. But, to be honest, I get tired of being lumped in with the minority of morons. I have had numerous expeiences of racism against me by black people, but I don't accuse black people as a race. God made morons and idiots in every race.
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this is not palatable for a Western culture that would probably like to see all dark-skinned people disappear off the planet.
Kaliman, you're bang on target with this statement. Only tonight I was planning how to murder my Trini girlfriend and my unborn black baby. All of us whites in England don't see the need for all you black people now we can play reggae. :frustrated:
It's fine to put forward your views concerning the incorrect myths circulated by a relatively small number of white fascists, but parroting their hatred against another race makes you just like them. The colour of a persons skin does not determine a racist, what they say does.
Breds yuh know what really gets me about white ppl? when other white talk their genocidal talk, other whites take offense bc it brings shame on their race, but you barely see white folks standing up against institutional racism, instead they mind their business and turn a blind eye.
bro i got where kalliman coming from, but you on the other hand is viewing the thing in an extremely subjective way. kalliman not talking about "individual" white man or woman who just wants to survive just like any other man, no!
kalliman is talking about institutional racism, the ppl who wield the power who has been trying to weaken and eradicate the black race, first with drugs and disease, and now with guns,economic deprivation and inferior education so we would not be able to compete with the rest of the world.
doh take things so personal fella, bc for the most part, we really not on the average white fella in the streets, it's the fellas who pulling the strings behind the scenes who's been trying to damage us ever since our stocks dropped due to the abolition, that is who we on.
@ Football Supporter. I sincerely apologize for how I phrased what I said. I did not mean that all white people want to see black people disappear. What I should have said, is, as Just Cool summarized, there are powerful interests within the white power structure that would not mind if black people disappeared. You and I both know that there are clear examples of this in history.
So in summary, this is what I meant to convey.
:beermug: I hear you mate.
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lol
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I will not go into all the technicalities of what we did or what we did not do as a production team.
King Tut was nubian, the images of him on his throne and on the walls of his tomb depicts a cocoa/chocolate man. Not that image that Nat Geo depicted, we were aghast when we saw that garbage documentary (this is why I got out of television, fake shyte all over). His tomb depicts a black dude and at the conclusion of the documentary his skin is alabaster? Steups!
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The article presents yet some evidence of contention surrounding the original Discovery Channel study. Thus, the best one can conclude is that the ancestry of King Tut remains undetermined.
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http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20014-royal-rumpus-over-king-tutankhamuns-ancestry.html
Royal rumpus over King Tutankhamun's ancestry
14:09 21 January 2011 by Jo Marchant
Can we be sure which mummy was the daddy? When a state-of-the-art DNA analysis of Tutankhamun and other ancient Egyptian royals was published last year, its authors hailed it as "the final word" on the pharaoh's family tree. But others are now voicing doubts.
The analysis of 11 royal mummies dating from around 1300 BC was carried out by an Egyptian team led by Egypt's chief archaeologist Zahi Hawass. The project was overseen by two foreign consultants, Albert Zink of the EURAC Institute for Mummies and the Iceman in Bolzano, Italy, and Carsten Pusch of the University of Tübingen, Germany.
The researchers used the DNA data to construct a family tree of Tutankhamun and his immediate relatives. The study, published last February in the Journal of the American Medical Association (vol 303, p 638), concluded that Tutankhamun's father was the pharaoh Akhenaten, that his parents were brother and sister, and that two mummified foetuses found in Tutankhamun's tomb were probably his stillborn daughters – conclusions that have since become received wisdom.
But many geneticists complain that the team used inappropriate analysis techniques. Far from being definitive, the study is "not seen as rigorous or convincing", says Eline Lorenzen of the Center for GeoGenetics at the Natural History Museum in Copenhagen, Denmark. "Many of us in the DNA community are surprised that this has been published."
Degraded DNA
Ian Barnes, a molecular palaeobiologist at Royal Holloway, University of London, is also concerned. "In my experience it is not very easy to get these results," he says. "I can't do it, and I've spent a long time trying."
Zink and his colleagues used a genetic fingerprinting approach that involves testing variable regions of the genome called microsatellites, which are made up of short sequence repeats. The numbers of repeats vary between individuals, and by comparing the number of repeats across several microsatellites it is possible to work out whether or not individuals are related.
However, researchers rarely attempt this approach with ancient samples because the original DNA is likely to be degraded, and dwarfed by modern contamination. It's more common to sequence mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) – cells contain around a thousand times more copies of mtDNA than of genomic DNA, improving chances of finding large intact samples.
Zink and Pusch defend their choice, saying that they took extensive precautions to guard against contamination. For instance, they extracted samples from deep inside the mummies' bones, and genotyped lab staff to rule out contamination.
Not deep enough
But others doubt the precautions were sufficiently rigorous. Robert Connolly of the University of Liverpool, UK, who carried out blood typing of Tutankhamun's mummy in the 1960s, argues that it would be difficult to reach deep enough inside Tutankhamun's thin, fragile bones – or those of the two fetuses – to reach uncontaminated material.
Lorenzen adds that many people – not just the Hawass team – have handled the mummies since they were first unwrapped. The authors should have tested non-human samples from the tombs as negative controls, she says.
To judge the quality of the team's results, Lorenzen and others are asking for access to raw data not included in the Journal of the American Medical Association paper – but Zink is reluctant to oblige, fearing the data would spark "a lot of arguing" over technicalities.
However, Zink, Pusch and colleagues insist that they will soon be able to put any doubts to rest. They say they have also extracted the mtDNA that Lorenzen and others consider necessary for rigorous genetic analysis and are still working on the data. They hope to publish the results this year.
But the critics are still advising caution. "When working with samples that are so well-known, it is important to convince readers that you have the right data," says Lorenzen. "I am not convinced."