Build that rail.

[truetrini]

my father went to school went imbert, he was smart but ah real imps and a#$hole... he talkin out he a#$..

steups your family know everybody and went to sunday school, primary school, and college with everybody.

steups.

[dcs]

If yuh rant about it here before then yes I know.

Feel free to hold on to that refrain about political affiliation if you think it helps you...I don't do PR work for anyone like you do for the PNM.  And because I criticize the current government u decide to cast me as "ah UNC"....dais what allyuh PNM till Panday dead is do now?   


Why you can't accept someone being objective about individuals without listening to propaganda from people like you who hate one man so much u will put a slant on any issue if you feel it will somehow keep his party out of power.  Yuh credibility lil low when it come to certain isues cuz it seem like the ends justify the means for you.

Ramesh sold out Panday cuz he wanted more power....dais yuh story?  So what?  He was the Attorney General and he did his job.  Call him Judas if you want but I don't care if he doesn't have party loyalty...matter of fact I prefer that to someone who will sweep things under the rug. 


APETT and Rae Furlong is UNC too?  Wa bout the anti-smelter people?  Polished Hoe too?

[Organic]

If yuh rant about it here before then yes I know.

Feel free to hold on to that refrain about political affiliation if you think it helps you...I don't do PR work for anyone like you do for the PNM.  And because I criticize the current government u decide to cast me as "ah UNC"....dais what allyuh PNM till Panday dead is do now?   


Why you can't accept someone being objective about individuals without listening to propaganda from people like you who hate one man so much u will put a slant on any issue if you feel it will somehow keep his party out of power.  Yuh credibility lil low when it come to certain isues cuz it seem like the ends justify the means for you.

Ramesh sold out Panday cuz he wanted more power....dais yuh story?  So what?  He was the Attorney General and he did his job.  Call him Judas if you want but I don't care if he doesn't have party loyalty...matter of fact I prefer that to someone who will sweep things under the rug. 


APETT and Rae Furlong is UNC too?  Wa bout the anti-smelter people?  Polished Hoe too?

eh wah??
 my party is
FAAD- F*** All Ah Dem

[noname]

The old rail system was ru by P.T.S.C. The Public Transportation Safety Corporation.  The old rail was real cool, the government of the day made the big  BIG mistake of ending it and replacing it with Buses....and the Priority Bus Route was constructed as the corridor to replace the old rail.

World over train/rail transport has been much more efficient and cleaner than bus transport, which acts merely as a way for short distance mass transit.

I am all for a rail syatem in T&T, but  am wary as always whne billions of dollars are being spent and the accounting/bidding procss may be flawed.

Oh Lord boy, when will T&T get it right?  The money will not keep flowing as it is.....steups.

Where does the rail system, bus system and ferry service fall within the context of the master transportation plan? I forget...what plan?

Just curious, isnt it a light rail being discussed?

[dcs]

Where does the rail system, bus system and ferry service fall within the context of the master transportation plan? I forget...what plan?

Just curious, isnt it a light rail being discussed?

You asking for a plan!!

TT I think this person is a UNC!!!!

 

[TrinInfinite]

Where does the rail system, bus system and ferry service fall within the context of the master transportation plan? I forget...what plan?

Just curious, isnt it a light rail being discussed?

You asking for a plan!!

TT I think this person is a UNC!!!!

 

anybody who ask for accountability and transparency is a UNC to tt

[ribbit]

He cudda be a little more specific about these "various local, Canadian and Indian studies done in the last 40 years up to this year".

i was looking at the annual factbook published by the economist (2005 i think), and t&t ranks in the top ten for density of road networks. will try to get the info later.

[Organic]

He cudda be a little more specific about these "various local, Canadian and Indian studies done in the last 40 years up to this year".

i was looking at the annual factbook published by the economist (2005 i think), and t&t ranks in the top ten for density of road networks. will try to get the info later.

could be true yes.....we havea lto of raods..but what kinda nay kind..or just main raods or secondary roads includied

[truetrini]

If yuh rant about it here before then yes I know.

Feel free to hold on to that refrain about political affiliation if you think it helps you...I don't do PR work for anyone like you do for the PNM.  And because I criticize the current government u decide to cast me as "ah UNC"....dais what allyuh PNM till Panday dead is do now?   


Why you can't accept someone being objective about individuals without listening to propaganda from people like you who hate one man so much u will put a slant on any issue if you feel it will somehow keep his party out of power.  Yuh credibility lil low when it come to certain isues cuz it seem like the ends justify the means for you.

Ramesh sold out Panday cuz he wanted more power....dais yuh story?  So what?  He was the Attorney General and he did his job.  Call him Judas if you want but I don't care if he doesn't have party loyalty...matter of fact I prefer that to someone who will sweep things under the rug. 


APETT and Rae Furlong is UNC too?  Wa bout the anti-smelter people?  Polished Hoe too?

fella I doh need to get justification from you or anyone else.  And my rangs are rants to you because you are a UNC supporter..deny it if you wish!  I could care less for corrupt politicans from anywhere, be they American Trini or Canadian etc.  I am a great advocate for transparency and accountability.  Ramesh DID NOT do his job when he was AG, he slid info after he was out of power to get back at Panday..dais my story, and it happens to be true and available for anyone who desrires to research the truth, he turned the info into the incoming PNM, if he was so concerned, why didnt he do HIS JOB when he was AG?

steups.  Sweep under rug< he could hide behnd a g-string drawers he so shameless.  I hate Panday yes, becasue he does align heself with spinleless tiefs all de time, allyuh does cry fuh accountability and transparency but want me tuh shut up when I telling de trute about Panday and de UNC, maybe allyuh doh like dat kinda transparency?

When did  de UNC ever practice transparency and accountability?  With de Biche school?  Incogen?  Piarco?  LOndon flat?  de millions in de bank in London?  steups.

Jokers oui.  If any PNMite get ketch jail fuh dem, same fuh de UNC!!!
....smelter in allyuh ass...allyuh want diversity yet allyuh complaining about diversity of de economy....although I will admit dat I am concerned about de high handed manner of the ruling party and the lack of proper studies, but dis is a symptom of T&T politics fuh so long...UNC too!  It needs to be adressed, bu in a small country like T&T we doomed to face dis shit, especially when we have opposition party like de UNC..steups.  all we do in T&T is recycle old politicans anyway.

And yuh eh lie, I will do whatever I can in my power to keep a convicted criminal from ever having anything to do with governance in T&T...why would you want convicts leading anyway DCS? answer dat!
and for yuh info, i doh put slanton nutten, disprove meh statements about Panday nah...ah dare yuh and yuh acolyte TI.

steups.

[truetrini]

oh and yuh say de Government eh do studies?

yuh saying Colm Imbert lying? and what about de unc  dem studies flawed too?  Man griping cuz dey eh gey ah share ah de pie...steups and de UNC bitching cuz dem eh getting to tief....
By Gail Alexander

Surveys by Government confirm that 90 per cent of the population is in favour of the reintroduction of the railway in T&T, Works Minister Colm Imbert said yesterday:

“ To be blunt—the people want the railway and they want it now! As a responsible Government, we cannot ignore the will of the people in favour of a small serving group,” Imbert added in a statement to Parliament yesterday.

He completely dismissed concerns raised this week by the Joint Consultative Council, the T&T Manufacturers Association and the T&T Transparency Institute.

The groups called for a halt to the rapid rail system pending further studies on its viability, the establishment of a transit authority and a two-stage tendering process.

But Imbert slapped this down yesterday in a lengthy address supporting the case for the rail system.

“This recommendation has been pulled out of a hat by this distinguished group of construction industry professionals, without even the benefit of a pre-feasibility study—the very thing they are now demanding the Government undertake before proceeding with the rail project.

“Therefore, this recommendation cannot be taken seriously. It fails the very test they have set for Government and it is irresposible and unprofessional of these groups to demand a virtual dismantling of existing transport systems to suit their own sectarian interests, without in-depth analysis, the minister said.”

He said the groups’ suggestion to buy more buses would be more costly than the rail system, since it would require providing more roads for this also.

Imbert noted various local, Canadian and Indian studies done in the last 40 years up to this year, which he said confirmed the need for a rail system:

“We are now at three times the international traffic benchmark beyond which a railway should be introduced,” Imbert said.

He asked why the UNC Government had not undertaken the project when the UNC also had several studies on the issue done, attesting to the need.

He said all the information was also available to local industry professionals for years:

“It appears that left to them they would theorise and hypothecate forever and tilt at windmills like Don Quixote while the solution stares us all in the face and the travelling public becomes more and more disgruntled,” he added.

“Government has no intention of allowing self-seeking provocateurs or misguided interest groups to derail our transportation infrastructure programme.”

He said:

“ Wer are going full speed ahead with the railway project and we are on target to select our preferred contractor within the next two months if not before.”

Imbert also reiterated details of the procurement process, which had also been disputed by the groups. He said:

“Therefore, we have engaged in total and complete transparency over and above the standards set out in the White Paper on procurement that they keep referring to,” Imbert added.

 

[noname]

oh and yuh say de Government eh do studies?

yuh saying Colm Imbert lying? and what about de unc  dem studies flawed too?  Man griping cuz dey eh gey ah share ah de pie...steups and de UNC bitching cuz dem eh getting to tief....
By Gail Alexander

Surveys by Government confirm that 90 per cent of the population is in favour of the reintroduction of the railway in T&T, Works Minister Colm Imbert said yesterday:

> 75 % of the population in Trinidad is functionally illiterate.  Where is the raw data from these surveys? Personally, I'd think citing a source other than the express or guardian is in order for continuance of these discussions.

“ To be blunt—the people want the railway and they want it now! As a responsible Government, we cannot ignore the will of the people in favour of a small serving group,” Imbert added in a statement to Parliament yesterday.
Therein lies the folly of those in authority.

He completely dismissed concerns raised this week by the Joint Consultative Council, the T&T Manufacturers Association and the T&T Transparency Institute.

The groups called for a halt to the rapid rail system pending further studies on its viability, the establishment of a transit authority and a two-stage tendering process.

But Imbert slapped this down yesterday in a lengthy address supporting the case for the rail system.

“This recommendation has been pulled out of a hat by this distinguished group of construction industry professionals, without even the benefit of a pre-feasibility study—the very thing they are now demanding the Government undertake before proceeding with the rail project.
So if I read this correctly, no pre-feasibility study has been undertaken by either group. Then again i havent been educated at the best universities so someone please clarify.

“Therefore, this recommendation cannot be taken seriously. It fails the very test they have set for Government and it is irresposible and unprofessional of these groups to demand a virtual dismantling of existing transport systems to suit their own sectarian interests, without in-depth analysis, the minister said.”
Isnt the point of the feasibility study to demonstrate that the option considered is viable? So, in essence we need two feasibility studies based on this logic? One stating why it should be built and one why it shoudnt be built? Intelligence to the highest degree...

He said the groups’ suggestion to buy more buses would be more costly than the rail system, since it would require providing more roads for this also.
Where are the numbers to back up these claims?

Imbert noted various local, Canadian and Indian studies done in the last 40 years up to this year, which he said confirmed the need for a rail system:

“We are now at three times the international traffic benchmark beyond which a railway should be introduced,” Imbert said.

Call me stupid but wouldnt it be best to simply utilize the results from these studies to issue documents related to a master transportation plan that the government is formulating? Its amazing that an engineer like himself cannot see that for such a problem, there will be several solutions that may work just as well. Being open to suggestions cannot kill the project.

He asked why the UNC Government had not undertaken the project when the UNC also had several studies on the issue done, attesting to the need.
This was probably because they hadnt yet figured out a way to make money off this transaction? Remember they were juggling several multimillion dollar scams. Is only so much you can tief in one go.

He said all the information was also available to local industry professionals for years:

“It appears that left to them they would theorise and hypothecate forever and tilt at windmills like Don Quixote while the solution stares us all in the face and the travelling public becomes more and more disgruntled,” he added.
Several wrongs and almosts dont make a right. The simple fact is that for us to develop a system that is both efficient and effective, we have to lose out in the shortrun. We've lost out for the past 40 years, if we put things in place right now, we can arrive at our endpoint earlier rather than limping through the race. Its very important that those in authority do not rush into something that will become a nuisance once we've arrived at the juicy horizon.


“Government has no intention of allowing self-seeking provocateurs or misguided interest groups to derail our transportation infrastructure programme.”

He said:

“ Wer are going full speed ahead with the railway project and we are on target to select our preferred contractor within the next two months if not before.”

Imbert also reiterated details of the procurement process, which had also been disputed by the groups. He said:

“Therefore, we have engaged in total and complete transparency over and above the standards set out in the White Paper on procurement that they keep referring to,” Imbert added.

[dcs]

I posted that article here a few days ago.
The holes in his address will show up soon enough.

Where dem numbers come from...out ah hat?


U are obsessed with Panday....I doh understand how he come in a discussion about the rail project.
Maybe is cuz he mash up yuh ONR padnahs when yuh was back home and force yuh to flee to VA   
   

seriously...u talk bout others being political but nutten cah be discussed without YOU talking bout yuh padnah....a man who has had little to no effect on national issues in the past few years and who spent a very short time in office. Who de hell cares about Panday...HISTORY.  I guess u transitioning yuh hatred to Ramesh....leave me out yuh folly.

If the opposition not functioning then the people will have to speak up for themselves.  U confise that with supporting those who sitting on the benches.

note:
While looking for Imbert's speech I saw they broadcast parliament over the net
http://www.ttparliament.org/parliamentchannel.htm

[truetrini]

75 % of the population in Trinidad is functionally illiterate.  Where is the raw data from these surveys? Personally, I'd think citing a source other than the express or guardian is in order for continuance of these discussions.

And you came to this conclusion based on what pre-feasibility study?

Therein lies the folly of those in authority.

Folly? Discharging the will of the people is deemed folly? How so?  Pray tell....or are you again stating "facts" from study you undertook?  And is there not a problem with public transport in T&T that needs urgent attention?

So if I read this correctly, no pre-feasibility study has been undertaken by either group. Then again i havent been educated at the best universities so someone please clarify.

I do believe that Mr. Colm was suggesting that those in opposition had NOT done any studies, and they accuse the government of the same offense.  I am sure that you have mistaken the goodly minister's comments, indeed he was not very clear with his staements.

Isnt the point of the feasibility study to demonstrate that the option considered is viable? So, in essence we need two feasibility studies based on this logic? One stating why it should be built and one why it shoudnt be built? Intelligence to the highest degree...

It appears to me that the government, indeed successive governments had done studies, hence the reference to transportaton improvements in India and Canada, or do you disagree?  And forgive me, but I cannot see where the Minister suggests two studies???  He suggested that those voicing opposition are demanding the dismantling of exisiting transportation systems and they are making such demands by the seat of their pants without any studies being untertaken to validiate their position!

Where are the numbers to back up these claims?

The Minister'sffice is available to answer such questions I am sure.  Maybe he got that answer the same place you got yours concerning the illiteracy of trinis?

Call me stupid but wouldnt it be best to simply utilize the results from these studies to issue documents related to a master transportation plan that the government is formulating? Its amazing that an engineer like himself cannot see that for such a problem, there will be several solutions that may work just as well. Being open to suggestions cannot kill the project.

Are you conceding that maybe the Government did some sort of feasiility studies afterall?  Even if they borrowed from elsewhere?  And what in the Minister's comments suggest that he was unreceptive to suggestions?  It appears that he is reluctant to talk to those who, without the benefit of any form of studies want to halt the project, indeed, as he stated, even want to go so far as to dismantle existing infrastructure...all for sectarian interests..and a piece of the pie even!

This was probably because they hadnt yet figured out a way to make money off this transaction? Remember they were juggling several multimillion dollar scams. Is only so much you can tief in one go.

well we do agree on something afte rall.  Mind you, I AM NOT entirely convinced that this massive project is being properly handled.

Several wrongs and almosts dont make a right. The simple fact is that for us to develop a system that is both efficient and effective, we have to lose out in the shortrun. We've lost out for the past 40 years, if we put things in place right now, we can arrive at our endpoint earlier rather than limping through the race. Its very important that those in authority do not rush into something that will become a nuisance once we've arrived at the juicy horizon.

I concur!  But there is something that you left out and obviously, the article omits details also, but please note that the writer did suggest that during his lengthy response to the rail critics, the minister outlined the bidding process!

Imbert also reiterated details of the procurement process, which had also been disputed by the groups. He said:

“Therefore, we have engaged in total and complete transparency over and above the standards set out in the White Paper on procurement that they keep referring to,” Imbert added.

Ths article does not give the whole speech by the minister, just what the writer believed was salient.

[truetrini]

I posted that article here a few days ago.
The holes in his address will show up soon enough.

Where dem numbers come from...out ah hat?


U are obsessed with Panday....I doh understand how he come in a discussion about the rail project.
Maybe is cuz he mash up yuh ONR padnahs when yuh was back home and force yuh to flee to VA   
   

seriously...u talk bout others being political but nutten cah be discussed without YOU talking bout yuh padnah....a man who has had little to no effect on national issues in the past few years and who spent a very short time in office. Who de hell cares about Panday...HISTORY.  I guess u transitioning yuh hatred to Ramesh....leave me out yuh folly.

If the opposition not functioning then the people will have to speak up for themselves.  U confise that with supporting those who sitting on the benches.

note:
While looking for Imbert's speech I saw they broadcast parliament over the net
http://www.ttparliament.org/parliamentchannel.htm

My hatred as you put it has verything to do with wanting the best available governance for T&T.  Is that not important to you?  I have   transferred NEW feelings toward Ramesh, becasue initially I supported him and felt that he was a man of moral fortitude.  Sadly, I was mistaken.  And I am not alone as it pertains to this matter.  Ask Hulsie, Raffique Shah, and Dookeran how they feel about Ramesh's two faced behaviours.

I as teasing my friend Feliazano when I brought in UNC and then I responded to TI's post about Ramesh.  The fact is that the people's voice in T&T has become compromised by Panday.  You may not like me saying that, but it is true and it is indeed sad.  He is a has-been, but his lust for power has seen him destroying the UNC faster than dementia taking over TI's cognition!

And you feel that he has had no influence on the politics in T&T over the last few years?  steups.  Wake up.

I have always had an axe to gring with Panday becasue of what he is and what he has always done, nutten to do with ONR and I eh run no wey either.  It all stems from his corrupt and unethial dealings and handling od the very people who gave him power in the first place...the sugar workers.  And we see how he has dealt with them and their plight ent?

it seems that YOU HAVE A PROBLEM when the people (I am the people too)do speak out against th piss poor opposition ent?  Why else yuh taking umbrage with my discourse lamenting the frail and foul state of de UNC?  eh, eh eh?

[fishs]

Where does the rail system, bus system and ferry service fall within the context of the master transportation plan? I forget...what plan?

Just curious, isnt it a light rail being discussed?

You asking for a plan!!

TT I think this person is a UNC!!!!

 

 In 1992 when we were still in the throes of IMF administered restructuring the GOTT decided to stop the Development Programme as it was known then and introduce the PSIP Public Sector Development Plan.
In order to have carefully thought out and executed development projects the public service planners, porject coordinators, PMU 's etc were all given 1 yr project planning and project implementation training by the world bank.
What they did in a nutshell was give groups projects that were just ideas and the groups had to end up doing feasibilty studies on these various projects.
The projects I remember.
Port Of Spain waterfront.
St Joseph Goverment Complex.
San Fernando Goverment Complex.
Irwin Park sporting Complex
Inter Island Transport
Port of Spain to Point Fortin freeway
Rapid transit system.

Now I left the service soon after and I don't know if the overall scheme of things has changed since, but I think there is a plan in there somewhere and even though the money for these projects could be all " People money " meaning straight from government with no international loans or grants, the IMF and UNDP arrangements we have may still requires scrutiny of these projects by them.
The construction sector has pressure groups that look after their own interests , this means that they do not appreciate foriegn input outside of the energy sector, anything with concrete , iron  and steel should stay within their perview, so they are always critical of mega projects of this nature. Of course Mt Hope and Piarco did nothing to reduce this criticism.
They would rather build more roads, overpasses etc.
But that is myopic and not very futuristic thinking or planning.
A rapid transit system is a must for TT since over 50% of the population travel to the cities or large towns everday.
Ten years to complete this system compared to 20 yrs of new road building that probably will not satisfy transport requirements is a no brainer.

[Feliziano]

anybody know how much people going into POS works for the public sector versus the private sector and students?
i think besides business offices and some important government departments, everything else shouls be out of POS.
didnt they think bout decentralization a few years agao?
what became of that idea?
probably nothing cause i did remember they wanting to build a new hospital in the middle of POS.
i still feel if we cant take care of buses, yuh expect them to take car of an expensive rail car..bring that in and see how fast it go become "ghetttorized"..steups

[fishs]

anybody know how much people going into POS works for the public sector versus the private sector and students?
i think besides business offices and some important government departments, everything else shouls be out of POS.
didnt they think bout decentralization a few years agao?
what became of that idea?
probably nothing cause i did remember they wanting to build a new hospital in the middle of POS.
i still feel if we cant take care of buses, yuh expect them to take car of an expensive rail car..bring that in and see how fast it go become "ghetttorized"..steups

Good question.
Some years ago we suggested that where the caroni racing plant was supposed to go they could have put new government offices there but that was shut down in favor of houses ah suppose.
The biggest problem with the rail will definitely be operational/maintenance.

[Organic]

anybody know how much people going into POS works for the public sector versus the private sector and students?
i think besides business offices and some important government departments, everything else shouls be out of POS.
didnt they think bout decentralization a few years agao?
what became of that idea?
probably nothing cause i did remember they wanting to build a new hospital in the middle of POS.
i still feel if we cant take care of buses, yuh expect them to take car of an expensive rail car..bring that in and see how fast it go become "ghetttorized"..steups

Good question.
Some years ago we suggested that where the caroni racing plant was supposed to go they could have put new government offices there but that was shut down in favor of houses ah suppose.
The biggest problem with the rail will definitely be operational/maintenance.

yes i think long term maintaince is critical. but the system is a must now.
i dont think the government has even seriously considered maintiance as part of thier thinkign because it seems as soona s they get an idea they just rush in.

[truetrini]

anybody know how much people going into POS works for the public sector versus the private sector and students?
i think besides business offices and some important government departments, everything else shouls be out of POS.
didnt they think bout decentralization a few years agao?
what became of that idea?
probably nothing cause i did remember they wanting to build a new hospital in the middle of POS.
i still feel if we cant take care of buses, yuh expect them to take car of an expensive rail car..bring that in and see how fast it go become "ghetttorized"..steups

Good question.
Some years ago we suggested that where the caroni racing plant was supposed to go they could have put new government offices there but that was shut down in favor of houses ah suppose.
The biggest problem with the rail will definitely be operational/maintenance.

yes i think long term maintaince is critical. but the system is a must now.
i dont think the government has even seriously considered maintiance as part of thier thinkign because it seems as soona s they get an idea they just rush in.

ah man jes post ah say de ting online since 1992 and yuh say dey rushing it.  I can guarantee that anyone selling the government the rapid rail will also provide services for that syatem thats how business is done!  That way the provider also gets ah share of de maintenance and systems pie.  additionally they will be providing training to the crew, maintenance workers etc.

Believe dat!

[dcs]

Do we have to take it on faith the studies exist?
If they do exist and they stand up to scrutiny then fine but they have to get used to people scrutinizing their every move.  Accusing them of complaining because they didn't get contracts is not the way to go even if he feel is so.  Let the facts come to light for themselves.

Just remember we also needed an airport too.  And Tobago needed a hospital.  And we needed new stadia for the WC.   Is about the process so if information is there to show they doing things the right way then make it available....the onus is on them not us to make the case.

[truetrini]

Do we have to take it on faith the studies exist?
If they do exist and they stand up to scrutiny then fine but they have to get used to people scrutinizing their every move.  Accusing them of complaining because they didn't get contracts is not the way to go even if he feel is so.  Let the facts come to light for themselves.

Just remember we also needed an airport too.  And Tobago needed a hospital.  And we needed new stadia for the WC.   Is about the process so if information is there to show they doing things the right way then make it available....the onus is on them not us to make the case.

Well now yuh making sense.  But doh assume too much nor hold yuh breath...is trinidad politicans we dealing with, thoe who eh corrupt, damn well inept.

Their records speak volumes and testify to dat!

[noname]

75 % of the population in Trinidad is functionally illiterate.  Where is the raw data from these surveys? Personally, I'd think citing a source other than the express or guardian is in order for continuance of these discussions.

And you came to this conclusion based on what pre-feasibility study?

You are correct. The highest percentage that I've come across is approximately 23% (Adult Literacy Tutors Association, 1995; UWI  NATIONAL  LITERACY  SURVEY, 1995). Although some estimates up to 54% have been postulated based on varying definitions.
In essence, my point is lies within the context that surveys of opinions in Trinidad will be severely skewed depending on the wording of the questions. I'm in no doubt that > 90% of Trinidadians want a change from the current transportation fiasco but correlating this change to wanting a rail? not so sure. Only the raw data can be used at this point to validate my point.

Therein lies the folly of those in authority.

Folly? Discharging the will of the people is deemed folly? How so?  Pray tell....or are you again stating "facts" from study you undertook?  And is there not a problem with public transport in T&T that needs urgent attention?

The folly is that each government has DECIDED beforehand how to discharge the will of the people. Yes, act on the will of the masses but at the same time, provide those with the technical expertise to criticize and comment and take heed of what is being said. We see eye to eye on that.

So if I read this correctly, no pre-feasibility study has been undertaken by either group. Then again i havent been educated at the best universities so someone please clarify.

I do believe that Mr. Colm was suggesting that those in opposition had NOT done any studies, and they accuse the government of the same offense.  I am sure that you have mistaken the goodly minister's comments, indeed he was not very clear with his staements.

See maybe we differ in the opinion of the responsibility of the government here. I fully believe that the pre-feasibility study should be within the realm of the government's responsibility NOT those in opposition. This is my view becuase the gov's study, if done properly, will clearly illuminate the path forward.

Isnt the point of the feasibility study to demonstrate that the option considered is viable? So, in essence we need two feasibility studies based on this logic? One stating why it should be built and one why it shoudnt be built? Intelligence to the highest degree...

It appears to me that the government, indeed successive governments had done studies, hence the reference to transportaton improvements in India and Canada, or do you disagree?  And forgive me, but I cannot see where the Minister suggests two studies???  He suggested that those voicing opposition are demanding the dismantling of exisiting transportation systems and they are making such demands by the seat of their pants without any studies being untertaken to validiate their position!

But we're in a catch 22. The results from the government's study would definitely lay away at those claims. Using university studies at citations for municipal projects is relevant but not the end all be all of substantial engineering projects.

Where are the numbers to back up these claims?

The Minister'sffice is available to answer such questions I am sure.  Maybe he got that answer the same place you got yours concerning the illiteracy of trinis?
Well i got my answers from my gut (Colbert Report, 2006).

Call me stupid but wouldnt it be best to simply utilize the results from these studies to issue documents related to a master transportation plan that the government is formulating? Its amazing that an engineer like himself cannot see that for such a problem, there will be several solutions that may work just as well. Being open to suggestions cannot kill the project.

Are you conceding that maybe the Government did some sort of feasiility studies afterall?  I'll happily concede this IF I can get my hands on a copy of the report!

Even if they borrowed from elsewhere?  And what in the Minister's comments suggest that he was unreceptive to suggestions?  It appears that he is reluctant to talk to those who, without the benefit of any form of studies want to halt the project, indeed, as he stated, even want to go so far as to dismantle existing infrastructure...all for sectarian interests..and a piece of the pie even!

This was probably because they hadnt yet figured out a way to make money off this transaction? Remember they were juggling several multimillion dollar scams. Is only so much you can tief in one go.

well we do agree on something afte rall.  Mind you, I AM NOT entirely convinced that this massive project is being properly handled.

Several wrongs and almosts dont make a right. The simple fact is that for us to develop a system that is both efficient and effective, we have to lose out in the shortrun. We've lost out for the past 40 years, if we put things in place right now, we can arrive at our endpoint earlier rather than limping through the race. Its very important that those in authority do not rush into something that will become a nuisance once we've arrived at the juicy horizon.

I concur!  But there is something that you left out and obviously, the article omits details also, but please note that the writer did suggest that during his lengthy response to the rail critics, the minister outlined the bidding process!

Imbert also reiterated details of the procurement process, which had also been disputed by the groups. He said:

“Therefore, we have engaged in total and complete transparency over and above the standards set out in the White Paper on procurement that they keep referring to,” Imbert added.

Ths article does not give the whole speech by the minister, just what the writer believed was salient.

[ann3boys]

well sorry it took so long to reply, but you know, Christmas
anyway, the minister gave a long media release over the holidays, and one day I'll probably sit down and read it...pages and pages of words. no pictures
in any case it is a done deal (again!) and now we can only wait and see ... seems it will take quite a few years to build, and still we will need other shorter term measures. The govt is also bringing more buses in the new year. Again, i have to point out, that over the years, we have continued to buy new buses, no problem, but still refuse to buy the prts for maintenance. how many buses are in the yard parked up because they are missing parts. Last few yeard, the mechanics have been cannibalizing some of the buses, to fix others.
Can you say " third world mentality?"
How will this translate for the rail system? What is being put in place for maintenance?
 

[Tallman]

Rapid rail contract awarded
By Asha Javeed (Trinidad Guardian)

Trinitrain, led by Bouygues Travaux Publics, has been awarded the contract for the construction of the $7 billion Rapid Rail project.

Prime Minister Patrick Manning made the announcement as he explained the Government’s plans to alleviate the country’s traffic woes as he delivered the 2007-2008 budget in

Parliament yesterday.

The Government and special interest groups have been engaged in a war of words over the project which lead to the establishment of a Ministerial

Committee to oversee the procurement process. The Ministerial Committee was supported by a technical team comprised of senior public servants and technocrats.

Manning pointed out that the process has taken over a year with the final two companies being Trinitrain and T3 Group led by Vinci Construction.

He said after a thorough examination by the National Infrastructure Development Company and the Technical Team including technical considerations, price and contractual terms and a review by the Ministerial Committe, the Trinitrain offer was accepted.

Bouygues is the contractor in charge of the billion-dollar waterfront project and has recently been awarded the contract to build the 26-storey Transcorp Credit Union tower on South Quay, Port-of-Spain.

“The project is to be implemented through the National Infrastructure

Development Company and will be developed through a Design Build Operate Maintain contract. The first phase of the project will commence in the new fiscal year and will be completed in five to six years time,” said Manning.

“Mr Speaker, suffice it to say that the rapid rail system will provide unparalled mobility and will be the backbone of Trinidad’s transportation system when completed,” he said.

[Trini1]

They need to stop saying they goin to do dese tings and start doin dem thats if they really want to reach first world status. But at the moment it doesn't look like it. A simple thing like building a highway from San Fernando to Point Fortin has been on the agenda for the longest while. Speaking about highways that is what they need to fix before they start building rapid rail. Do u really think developed countries have traffic lights on their highways and dirt tracks and driveways leading onto the highway like on the UBH and SHH. The answer is NO!!Because it is dangerous. Because they are not building the southern link freeway they need to up the standards of the Churchil-R Highway to fit that of the SLF. So three lanes either side all the way to Wallerfield with ATM system above the highway also with overhead signs above the highway. I feel they jes ignoring the traffic problems in Port of Spain, instead of building car parks continue the beetham highway as an elevated highway through the City centre bypassing the congested CBD and continue the highway all the way to Diego Martin so there is a through flow of traffic and they need to be efficient and cost and time effective so tunneling through the hills on the way to diego Martin is a great idea remember they need to think first world. And a spur of the highway leading to Sea lots as an expressway. Obviously there would be overpasses so people can get off an onto the highway at ease and into and out of the city centre with ease.

[Trini1]

Oh yeh and 3 lanes each side for UBH and SHH all the the way from Grand Bazzar to San Fernando with overhead signs and state of the art ATM systems.

[Bitter]

First answer - yes. I drive on a highway everyday that has all the overpasses and exits etc and then just turn into a section with traffic lights and road coming out of residential areas and then turn back into the highway again. Why? b/c they couldn't/wouldn't acquire the land needed to make the
"proper" junctions, and had to do what they could.

The problem with Traffic in POS is that there are too many cars going into the same spot. I think the goal is to get as many of those cars off the streets by having this mass transit system.

But since we building elevated highways and tunneling through to Diego Martin. I wouldn't mind seeing POS as a car-free zone, with free buses/trams running along the streets. You would arrive on the outskirts of POS in your train/taxi whatever and then hop the free bus to your destination. Of course, huge park-and ride lots present their own problems as dos the fact that all of this is never going to profit (but then, public transit never does)

Thinking first world isn't about building things bigger, or more fancy or tunnels or whatever, it's about making the infrastructure you build effective and efficient. Even then, sometimes you are overwhelmed by events. Take the Bridge in Minnesota that collapsed (or any highway in NYC) the design parameters have long ago been exceeded.

If you can reduce the number of cars on the road b/c people use mass transit or a water-taxi, then you'll find that the traffic may improve without the need for tunnels.

[triniairman]

This ia ha old thread, I just wanted to know if this ever materialized.

[Brownsugar]

This ia ha old thread, I just wanted to know if this ever materialized.

The last thing I heard just this week, was that it was put on hold because there were too many questions surrounding the bidding process that need to be answered.....

[kounty]

This ia ha old thread, I just wanted to know if this ever materialized.

The last thing I heard just this week, was that it was put on hold because there were too many questions surrounding the bidding process that need to be answered.....

funny to read this post, cuz I had so many questinos aftger readin the article myself.  how they coem up with a winning bidder (especially if they hire a company that never did this before)...did tihs company do one before somewhere else? 7bn is a lot of money.