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Author Topic: Randolph Burroughs ?  (Read 5743 times)

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Offline ndookie

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Randolph Burroughs ?
« on: May 01, 2006, 05:24:28 PM »
Wha he do , how he do it , tell me about him..
« Last Edit: May 02, 2006, 03:30:41 PM by Tallman »
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Offline TriniCana

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Re: Borrows ?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2006, 09:48:44 PM »
His name was Randoph Burroughs he was the Commissioner of Police back in 1978 to I believe 1987 (someone can confirm). I'm not sure when he died - 80s from Cancer I think.

This a picture of him
the balded one
http://triniview.com/album/Bro-Valentino/val06070521

From what I remembered growing up he had a bad reputation of shooting first and asking questions after, alot of gambling, accuse of money laundering - I believe he was arrested also.
He was just plain notorious.

I'm sure Palos and Tallman would have more information for you

Offline warmonga

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Re: Borrows ?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2006, 06:50:19 AM »
Wha he do , how he do it , tell me about him..
de man was a big crook jes like nuff A l dem policeman innah Trinidad.. tekin bribe and Kidnapping people..
Warmonga.
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Offline Dutty

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Re: Borrows ?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2006, 06:51:06 AM »
I was too small when he use to rule the roost to know all the details

However ah sure if yuh type 'randolph borroughs' into google...you will probably pick up snippets of info that will help
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Offline Rastaman

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Re: Borrows ?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2006, 12:04:31 PM »
Burrows while being Commisioner of Police lead the Infamous "Flying Squad" it is similar to the GB squad ot today(then squad that does be in fete an ting, the big ones..)They were the baddest men around them men never used to take no prisoners.... Nuff criminals went into hiding and come out in bodybags... The crime rate was much lower... criminals were genuinly fearfull of him.... Back then you could't get rank from beeing bad and standing up tp police...you would not live to get the 'props'
Nowadays men getting ratings for being bad...

Offline Pointman

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Re: Borrows ?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2006, 01:03:28 PM »
Burrows while being Commisioner of Police lead the Infamous "Flying Squad" it is similar to the GB squad ot today(then squad that does be in fete an ting, the big ones..)They were the baddest men around them men never used to take no prisoners.... Nuff criminals went into hiding and come out in bodybags... The crime rate was much lower... criminals were genuinly fearfull of him.... Back then you could't get rank from beeing bad and standing up tp police...you would not live to get the 'props'
Nowadays men getting ratings for being bad...

very true...nuff men geh iced by the flying squad...and was always in ah "ambush". And yes de crime rate was very low. Anybody coulda walk the streets anywhere at any time of day or night. Burroughs and he boys and dem was NO JOKE.  Abu Bakr couldna be talking no big set ah sh!t if Randy B was still around. Guaranteed lick up.
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Offline Rastaman

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Re: Borrows ?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2006, 01:27:16 PM »
Burrows while being Commisioner of Police lead the Infamous "Flying Squad" it is similar to the GB squad ot today(then squad that does be in fete an ting, the big ones..)They were the baddest men around them men never used to take no prisoners.... Nuff criminals went into hiding and come out in bodybags... The crime rate was much lower... criminals were genuinly fearfull of him.... Back then you could't get rank from beeing bad and standing up tp police...you would not live to get the 'props'
Nowadays men getting ratings for being bad...

very true...nuff men geh iced by the flying squad...and was always in ah "ambush". And yes de crime rate was very low. Anybody coulda walk the streets anywhere at any time of day or night. Burroughs and he boys and dem was NO JOKE.  Abu Bakr couldna be talking no big set ah sh!t if Randy B was still around. Guaranteed lick up.
Thats so true...Abu would ah never be able to get all them young boy head turn up so...

You feel they would ah be staking out the Jammat..... It woulda be flat !!

Offline dombasil

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Re: Borrows ?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2006, 03:14:58 PM »
Every report about him included this immortal line  'And after the smoke cleared' and a picture of him in shades standing over the bullet riddled body of a bandit.

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2006, 03:54:38 PM »
De Flying Squad!!!!!
True, some said he was involved in things unbecoming of a senior policemen.  However, Trinidad & Tobago was a safe country back during his tenure.  Criminals then had respect for policemen and ran for life when he and his men were around.

Those were the days.

Offline redtrinigirl

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2006, 03:56:26 PM »
As much as we like to think we are getting more civilised and 'first world', we need ah Burroughs again.

Is like Iraq. When yuh remove the top badman, it eh have nobody to keep de rest ah badman in check. End result...chaos.

Sometimes it better to have one real badman, than to have ah set ah imps and wannabes trying to outdo each other to prove they bad. :-\
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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2006, 04:06:49 PM »
As much as we like to think we are getting more civilised and 'first world', we need ah Burroughs again.

Is like Iraq. When yuh remove the top badman, it eh have nobody to keep de rest ah badman in check. End result...chaos.

Sometimes it better to have one real badman, than to have ah set ah imps and wannabes trying to outdo each other to prove they bad. :-\

How Iraq and "Top badmen" like Trinidad?  I eh following yuh.

Offline ndookie

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2006, 04:10:19 PM »
hmm , sounding like something we need right now

i just hear a man get lock up for 9 months for thiefin dasheen bush..steups , before they lock up man who thiefin heroine between gangs , they locking up the infamous dasheen thief.. :rotfl: :rotfl:

This a real bad man boy , he hadda be brave to run down men all down the place..
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Offline redtrinigirl

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2006, 04:14:23 PM »
I mean just like how Saddam no longer there to keep all the warring factions under control, doh mind he was ah dictator, after Burroughs gone, things just got steadily worse. It eh have nobody they fraid anymore. Police? That is ah joke to them criminals. They taking on police bold, bold. And they eh fraid to kill police and army men neither. Even Dole Chadee gang had them drug runners under raps. After they hang him everybody start fighting to control things, and dat is when things started getting out of hand. So as bad as Burroughs was, sometimes that is what is needed. A top badman (cause they say he was laundering and ting too) is better to have in place, than to remove the top men and let de underlings descend into chaos.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2006, 04:37:09 PM by redtrinigirl »
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Offline Ponnoxx

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2006, 05:30:38 PM »
 I am a young fella...But I see allyuh men praising Burroughs...Not what I heard...Burroughs kill youth men who didn't even do anything in Fyzabad...He was the man who made Dole Chadee who he was... According to my parents Dole was just a regular 'bad boy' before he hooked up with Burroughs....The crime does appear to be lower doh mean that it doesn't be happening...At these times is when crime is rampant....Not violence...when corrupt government officials involved they could control what going on so everybody in the crime world profits...Thus no violence, but there would still be trafficking, stealing, money laundering etc...I am not a fan of the PNM but the UNC government's excessive corruption is spilling over now as violence....I blame the PNM for being to spineless to take drastic measures to stop the crime..So I don't like any, never vote and never will....Go T&T

Offline ndookie

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2006, 05:37:34 PM »
yuh make a good point there pon , well , hopefully things would change in the UNC , see bas resign , but on the other hand , when you speak of drastic measures , as Westcoast quoted , people calling for burrough like techniques..i dont like the stories of killing some people at random , but it looking as though what he did to keep the violence , which is rampant right now , down , was good , cause right now it seems that the only way to stop it is by drastic measures ..
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Offline dcs

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2006, 05:51:05 PM »

Soooo...allyuh want Abu to take over den....if yuh looking for a "top" bad man.
Make him CoP den.

Offline ndookie

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2006, 06:04:39 PM »
write the pm , yuh never know..lol
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Offline oconnorg

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Re: Borrows ?
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2006, 05:45:04 AM »
Every report about him included this immortal line  'And after the smoke cleared' and a picture of him in shades standing over the bullet riddled body of a bandit.

That same story includes the SAME kind of gun that is always found by the said bandit..
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Offline Dutty

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2006, 07:46:52 AM »

Soooo...allyuh want Abu to take over den....if yuh looking for a "top" bad man.
Make him CoP den.

Abu used to be a police..so dat eh no stretch fuh he

De problem wit dat is dem yankee go say trinidad in jihad...and come ridin in on we,,and tek back chagaramas..with guns pointin at chavez

Then again dey might keep wallerfield open for racing.....cote se cote la
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truetrini

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2006, 07:47:25 AM »
Allyuh know Randy and he boys was corrupt.  Dem used to lime on Dondonald Street.

But the truth is dis...none ah dem so-called bad boys in T&T woulda be alive today..none.

And all dem so-called innocent fellas he kill wasn't so innocent at all at all.

Me he care who say so!

Dat doh justify dey murder by de Flying Squad  eh...but tuh claim dey was innocent is ah stretch....a long stretch.

Burroughs was ah drug king-pin who eliminated his competition.

De PNM was so damn corrupt in dem days......!

While dere was drug running under de PNM..nutten can compare tuh de vast increase ah drug related crimes and instances of drug trafficking like under de UNC...who vex lorse!

read dis book  Cocaine and Heroin Trafficking in the Caribbean – The Case of TnT, Jamaica and Guyana.

yuh go see how correck Nakid was as why Jack fire him.

hhahahahahahah  like You Ent See or what?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006, 07:52:48 AM by truetrini »

Offline Mrs Jodie B

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2006, 10:38:18 AM »
me i young here and i eh know bout Randolph and he crew....but from what i read he seem like he was big trouble! anyway what allyuh trying to say or saying here is that the then 'Flying Squad' is the same as today's Guard and Emergency Branch?
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Offline Rastaman

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2006, 10:45:31 AM »
me i young here and i eh know bout Randolph and he crew....but from what i read he seem like he was big trouble! anyway what allyuh trying to say or saying here is that the then 'Flying Squad' is the same as today's Guard and Emergency Branch?
Same sorta style...big and strong

It was an elite division....you ent getting in there just so.

Not saying they do the same thing but same kinda style.

Offline Mrs Jodie B

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2006, 11:02:10 AM »
me i young here and i eh know bout Randolph and he crew....but from what i read he seem like he was big trouble! anyway what allyuh trying to say or saying here is that the then 'Flying Squad' is the same as today's Guard and Emergency Branch?
Same sorta style...big and strong

It was an elite division....you ent getting in there just so.

Not saying they do the same thing but same kinda style.

so then the Gaurd and Emergency lil nortorious too huh? i supposed yuh eh go want to mess wit them? i find dey lil intimidating...yuh see dis crew ah police in black wit big guns come and unsettle yuh wine in a fete! yuh duz want to know who dey looking for.
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Offline dombasil

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2006, 02:56:20 PM »
Nah, D Flying squad didn't wear uniform, strictly plainclothes.

Offline Cantona007

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2006, 03:14:00 PM »
Thanks TrueTrini. TT, at least you came out and stated the well known "facts" about Randy B. and the Flying Squad. People are over-simplyfying the effect that Burroughs would have on today's crime situation. First of all, as TT said, he was basically operating to eliminate his competition, so there wasn't really a moral imperative.
I am not sure that even his selfish brand of "law enforcement" would work today. The criminals today are more organized and are part of wider organizational structures. The petty criminals/bandits would get "dust out", but institutionalized criminal behaviour (coupled with dirty police at the top)... I'm not so sure.
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Offline ndookie

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2006, 06:08:26 PM »
then wha we go do about the crime ? les draft a crime plan and submit it to the Ministry  ;)
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Offline dcs

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2007, 09:17:53 AM »
When Burroughs is a hero
MARION O'CALLAGHAN
Trinidad & Tobago Newsday
Monday, September 3 2007


The seven shot dead by the police happened over the weekend between the Ryder-Scott gas reserves coming to an end, Have Faith and the Praise the Almighty and the Love Budget. News tiredness alone would have pushed the seven shot deads into the background.

There were other reasons for the relative silence before these police shot deads: we had seen it before. Over the past eight months, 18 people have been shot dead by the police. Moreover the reaction of some to crime, which everyone accepts is out of control, has been “Bring back Burroughs.” That phrase is overlaid with meaning. Burroughs achieved the ending of a students’ revolt turned serious, by killing off anyone supposed to be part of this Trini Ché Guevara revolution. The story that tough would-be revolutionaries had thrown away their weapons, knelt before Burroughs pleading for their lives, and were shot by him in person, remains as the model of ultimate imposition of law and order.There is another reason. Over the last few years the nation’s courts have lost a fair amount of the aura which had surrounded them. It is not only that they sometimes failed to convict where popular opinion had already convicted. Over this very same year there have been a record number of cases dismissed for lack of evidence, or non-appearance of the police, witnesses who changed their evidence and a contagious forgetting virus a little like crime- Alzheimer’s. Even if summary execution is wrong – and not all believe that it is – it is increasingly seen as an acceptable alternative to runaway unpunished crime. It can also be seen as an acceptable alternative to the Privy Council’s refusal to allow us to hang convicted murderers.



Change of strategy

Prime Minister Manning himself is on record for saying that he did believe that Capital Punishment was a deterrent. Only a few weeks ago he announced that there had been “a change of strategy. If you are caught with a gun . . .” The proximity to elections has not helped. Already, the UNC in its alliance with Cadiz, has not only made it clear that the real or supposed difficulty of the government to protect citizens, will be an important part of their election campaign. The UNC’s parallel crime fighting initiatives are not necessarily meant to be efficient. They are meant to point to the inadequacy of government’s crime fighting. It is not surprising therefore that there was little outcry over the weekend seven shot-deads.



Collateral damage

In these weekend shot-deads a woman was killed. Whatever questioning of the background and intentions of six of the seven, there is general consensus that the woman was simply collateral damage. She had returned home from work, began to undress and, hearing the shooting, went to close the window. She received a bullet in her chest. If her husband is to be believed, she was taken up by the police, as she was in “bra and underwear” – I suspect the word underwear was her husband’s euphemism for panty – and thrown into the police pickup on top of the other bodies, three it would seem. That she was thrown almost naked on the bodies of three strange men, would seem to have hurt and humiliated her husband more than the killing. It was the final straw of powerlessness. She had left behind five children.

And the three men? Were they bandits, kidnappers, murderers quick on the draw and wanted by the police and everyone else? Hard to say. Neighbours and their colleagues at the building site of Jacob’s Hill thought that they were ordinary construction workers who had just got paid. The police story was of men who refused to stop when challenged who shot first, and that the woman, Wendy Courtney, was caught in the crossfire. Police reports have since seemed to play down “shot first,” stressing instead that a quantity of guns and ammunition was found in the car. The police may be correct. They may also be scrupulously honest in any investigation of the killings. But investigations will be an internal matter for the police.



Inhouse investigations?

And there we come to one of the problems which will be repeated in the case of prisons: we are yet to end our tradition of inhouse investigations. Few countries today permit police to investigate police. It is not that police are generally mistrusted. It is that if the police are to be respected, prudence demands that investigations be done by those who are not only “above reproach.” They must be perceived as likely to be objective. This may well mean that any Complaints Authority or Ombudsman governing police behaviour should be outside of the hierarchical structure and power of the police force, including its Commissioner. Something is wrong when there are 633 complaints against the police in five months; 12,767 complaints from 2002 to 2006; and only 3,916 were resolved. Of these, 252 officers were warned, disciplined and one dismissed.

In other words, only 25 percent of all complaints were settled in some manner.

In addition to this it would seem to me wise – and fair – that every case of police shooting and killing should automatically be referred to some form of tribunal for investigation. The last thing anyone wants, particularly in a small island, are rumours of police “executions.” One of the main reasons for instability in some countries in Latin America has been the behaviour of the police.

This behaviour is never only a police matter. Rather it has traditionally emerged out of a demand coming from the elites of a country to “do something now.” This “now” is not interested in the reasons for crime. It is supposed that all that is needed to end crime is to match criminal firepower with more police firepower. Unfortunately there is little to support this. Rather since detection and not force is the major deterrent to crime, it is to detection to which we must turn.



Not Jamaica or Colombia

Relatively few people are shot dead by the police. We are not yet a Jamaica where the conflict between police and some areas sometimes ends in a pitched battle. We are certainly not a Colombia where police fire has been aided by private militia fire and where the situation has been complicated by Left guerrilla warfare.

However the time to stop the slide into the carving out of no-go areas backed by gang guns “protecting” the inhabitants is now. This now, is not only the police. It is also the degree to which law and order are used in an election campaign and the extent to which police become scapegoats for the wider ills of the society.



Handcuffs

What happens on arrest? This affects far more people than does police shooting. Dr Narayansingh has claimed that certain people are handcuffed and certain are not, with the implication that the very act of handcuffing has been used as an act of humiliation rather than as an unavoidable method of preventing escape or struggle. This may not be true, but in a racially divided country care must be taken to be seen to be fair. The incidence of television alone multiplies the impact of acts which may be perceived as “doing down” or humiliating. It should be noted that anything we think of as humiliating, easily becomes a feather in the cap in some quarters. That too should be avoided.



Confessions

One of our problems is the over-reliance on confessions. This is particularly true where witnesses are reluctant to come forward. The absence of DNA testing and, until recently, the absence of training in some aspects of evidence collection at the scene, has added to the reliance on confessions. There is a certain danger in this. In nearly every country there is the temptation to pressure suspects into giving confessions.

This pressure is not only the fear of, or actual possibility of, physical enforcement – usually beatings. A recent and tragic case in the Republic of Ireland has illustrated that police questioning may be done in such a manner as to elicit a response that is tantamount to a confession, will stand up in court, may be a case of “putting words in the mouth” of the suspect who may be innocent and find it difficult to prove it.

In the Irish case it was discovered by chance and only after the suspect had died in prison.



Society and values

It needs to be underlined that crime is not only a police affair. Rather the incidence of crime, how crime is defined and who is most likely to commit it, are primarily the result of social problems of integration and of exclusion. How the police react is not outside of this.

Police, after all, are part of a society whose values they only marginally define.

Offline TriniCana

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2007, 09:42:58 AM »
<stares>
concidence or not ::)

whenever we talk bout some high profile person from Trinidad and Tobago
dey newspaper does pick it up dey next day

Dutty talk bout bringing back Burroughs i believe it was August 31st Independence Day
now look Sept 3rd it on dey newspaper.

now if dis is dey case
ah wanna talk bout Kipaliani and Worldworth stores. Dey stores of dey 70s-80s  ;D
Dey Walmart and Zellers ah TnT.

Ah was now coming out ah fetusism (stares at Queen) when dem was around




Offline weary1969

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2007, 11:04:50 AM »
Man sayin that crime bad now but praising Burroughs. Stevie Wonder could see the nexus link).The man created the environment that we have today. He dead and gone and we now have to deal with the crime country he left.

So bring him back if all yuh want and the next generation we and the JA go have much more in similar
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Offline capodetutticapi

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Re: Randolph Burroughs ?
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2007, 05:22:53 PM »
there was crime b4 burroughs,during and after.nobody could stop it.not now not neva.burroughs had ah little leach on it though.burroughs had de right idea,he had de manpower to march in anywhere and demand what he wanted.so what if he profited,man not perfect,and if he knew that somebody was really ah bad seed,just get rid ah them.yuh neva hear de sayin to ketch ah tief yuh have to tink like ah tief.
soon ah go b ah lean mean bulling machine.