March 19, 2019, 11:38:45 PM

Author Topic: Caribbean Airlines Thread.  (Read 85264 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bitter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 9672
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #90 on: December 19, 2009, 11:00:53 AM »
Funny how the USA can always spend its way out of a recession and everyone else is supposed to conduct a fire sale and live in a one-room flat next to the tracks.

What does the US have to do with anything?  I doh really have a dog in this fight but it always tickles me... the reflexive US bashing.

US was just a stand in for any G20 country. They are the most visible example right now of deficit spending during a recession rather than contracting.
Bitter is a supercalifragilistic tic-tac-pro

Offline WestCoast

  • The obvious is that which is never seen until someone expresses it simply
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 16066
  • "Let We Do What We Normally Does" :)
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #91 on: December 19, 2009, 02:09:49 PM »
Funny how the USA can always spend its way out of a recession and everyone else is supposed to conduct a fire sale and live in a one-room flat next to the tracks.

As for the prospects of a merger, regionally it makes sense to have 1 long-haul and one inter-island airline service. I think you want to ensure that you can move about without having to rely on someone else. I'm not sure either airline is big enough to realize efficiencies, I don't think the routes overlap.

If you think that the finances are more important than the service, then let it go,  but then you rely on outside parties to give you access to fly. They go down too, Pan Am? Eastern?

From the article though, it looks like CAL bid on Air Jamaica and lost, but Jamaica prefers T&T to run the airline rather than whoever emerged at the top of that process. The meeting was probably something along the lines of "ay Patos, give CAL some cash so they could bid more. When we get back on we feet we go buy it back! Dollar Rescue to the Rescue!
Bitter that is de IMF "modus operandi", ya ent realsise that YEARS now
the big countries GRIP de stones of the smaller countries, yet dont treat their own kind the same wasy

is Orrite, if the USA keep borrowing, day go be speakin "Chineez" jez now ;)
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

Offline weary1969

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 27225
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #92 on: December 19, 2009, 07:48:54 PM »
In his presentation in the House last night Rowley warned the government about wanting to saddle T&T taxpayers with a sick airline (Air Jamaica), having just rescued BWEE from being grounded permanently.  He said when T&T was looking for help with BWEE we got none and had to fix the problem ourselves.  Why should we now want to burden T&T tax payers with a potentially new headache.

Oh btw, the Parliament Channel makes for very interesting viewing some times....

Who Rowley did expect 2 help we wit BWEE. We is d C'bb godfadder. Not dat I sayin 2 bail out Air JA. But again I say if yuh vex wit d PNM LEAVE. Doh b in d people party and opposin evry minute. Ryan poll say peeps want u as leader go up again Patos yuh go win this time and take ovah d party and save we.



Nah  he should stay right dey and remind Patrick why he is an idiot....

Dat eh go help we
Today you're the dog, tomorrow you're the hydrant - so be good to others - it comes back!"

Offline Bourbon

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 5147
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #93 on: December 20, 2009, 08:36:15 AM »
Fuh me...personally.....i wouldnt bother.
De ingratitude post TCL have me skeptical.
The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today are Christians who acknowledge Jesus ;with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.

Offline Brownsugar

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 10101
  • Soca in mih veins, Soca in mih blood!!
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #94 on: December 20, 2009, 08:53:15 AM »
In his presentation in the House last night Rowley warned the government about wanting to saddle T&T taxpayers with a sick airline (Air Jamaica), having just rescued BWEE from being grounded permanently.  He said when T&T was looking for help with BWEE we got none and had to fix the problem ourselves.  Why should we now want to burden T&T tax payers with a potentially new headache.

Oh btw, the Parliament Channel makes for very interesting viewing some times....

Who Rowley did expect 2 help we wit BWEE. We is d C'bb godfadder. Not dat I sayin 2 bail out Air JA. But again I say if yuh vex wit d PNM LEAVE. Doh b in d people party and opposin evry minute. Ryan poll say peeps want u as leader go up again Patos yuh go win this time and take ovah d party and save we.



Nah  he should stay right dey and remind Patrick why he is an idiot....

Dat eh go help we

Ah have to admit that the UNC internal elections make mih start to think about the other parties conduct theirs.  How the PNM does elect their leader?  Ent they have some kinda delegate type something??  Ah have to do some checking...just to satisfy mih curiousity...
 
"...If yuh clothes tear up
Or yuh shoes burst off,
You could still jump up when music play.
Old lady, young baby, everybody could dingolay...
Dingolay, ay, ay, ay ay,
Dingolay ay, ay, ay..."

RIP Shadow....The legend will live on in music...

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21977
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #95 on: December 20, 2009, 10:39:57 AM »

US was just a stand in for any G20 country. They are the most visible example right now of deficit spending during a recession rather than contracting.

Yeah but dem G20's have collateral and good "credit history" on dey side.  If you gone tuh de bank fuh ah loan and they think yuh's ah risk they'll blank yuh same way and send yuh home tuh clean up yuh credit.  That is essentially what the IMF does tell borrowers... "if yuh want money den put yuhself in a much better position to recover financially.. as we see it".

Online Deeks

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 16777
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #96 on: December 20, 2009, 11:39:21 AM »
The IMF don't force any country to come to them. If you can get China to bail you out, go for it. But I am almost sure China will want something in return. Any direction you go and you face the same predicament. The IMF basically is an institution of last resort. And it is certainly NOT a benevolent association.

Offline doc

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 1517
  • ...game, set, match.
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #97 on: December 20, 2009, 12:04:24 PM »
The IMF don't force any country to come to them. If you can get China to bail you out, go for it. But I am almost sure China will want something in return. Any direction you go and you face the same predicament. The IMF basically is an institution of last resort. And it is certainly NOT a benevolent association.
That is the IMF line, Deeks.They have been shown to use their influence to block other options thereby tacitly coercing you to come to them as "the institution of last resort". Compton Bourne report and Davison Boodoo have shown this to be the case.
Live large and prosper!

Offline ribbit

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4294
  • T & T We Want A Goal !
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #98 on: December 20, 2009, 12:42:02 PM »
The IMF don't force any country to come to them. If you can get China to bail you out, go for it. But I am almost sure China will want something in return. Any direction you go and you face the same predicament. The IMF basically is an institution of last resort. And it is certainly NOT a benevolent association.

deeks, a bailout eh no investment opportunity in de conventional sense. china, saudi, and other swfs probably figuring dey cyah get no more than goodwill in de caribbean.

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21977
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #99 on: December 20, 2009, 01:08:44 PM »
The IMF don't force any country to come to them. If you can get China to bail you out, go for it. But I am almost sure China will want something in return. Any direction you go and you face the same predicament. The IMF basically is an institution of last resort. And it is certainly NOT a benevolent association.
That is the IMF line, Deeks.They have been shown to use their influence to block other options thereby tacitly coercing you to come to them as "the institution of last resort". Compton Bourne report and Davison Boodoo have shown this to be the case.

That is francomen nonsense.

IMF hardly charges any kinda interest rates and the drawn out nature of payback schedules means these "loans" end up being more like grants.  That being the case, of what benefit is it to the IMF to "block other options thereby tacitly coercing you to come to them"?  So that they could give you their money?


Offline Bitter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 9672
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #100 on: December 20, 2009, 02:31:16 PM »
FINANCE: Watchdog Faults IMF Loan Conditions
By Abid Aslam
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=40686

WASHINGTON, Jan 6 (IPS) - The International Monetary Fund (IMF) continues to burden its borrowers with superfluous demands despite efforts to streamline loans, an internal watchdog has found.

"Progress had been made in better aligning IMF conditionality to its core areas of responsibility and expertise, but about one-third of conditions continued to reach outside these areas," said Tom Bernes, director of the fund's Independent Evaluation Office.

The findings seem bound to fuel criticism that the IMF has arrogated unto itself the power to set terms beyond its formal mandate. In particular, evaluators are urging the fund to ease or jettison demands that borrowers transfer public services and enterprises to private owners.

Requiring governments to sell off utilities, health and educational institutions, or national industries is a contentious business. In some borrowing countries, security forces have clashed with citizens concerned about job losses and price hikes for basic goods and services.

Yet, according to the evaluators, the IMF staff has succeeded in ensuring that loan conditions increasingly reflect core concerns about macroeconomic stability. Rather, the sprawl - some call it "mission creep" - is largely the fault of the agency's wealthy shareholders.

Donor countries impose conditions with little relevance to the IMF's remit, evaluators found. Instead, terms are designed to enable donors to track their own, separate aid programmes and to ensure borrowers meet their benchmarks for debt relief or for entry into the European Union.

The extraneous conditions often are detailed and intrusive, some going as far as dictating legislative proposals to borrowing countries' parliaments.

In consequence, an initiative launched in 2000 to reduce the volume and scope of conditions has had little impact. The effort, and guidelines issued two years later, required that demands be made sparingly and be limited to those considered critical to programme goals.

"The streamlining initiative did not reduce the volume of conditionality, partly because structural conditions continued to be used to monitor other initiatives such as donors' support programmes and the European Union accession process," the evaluation office said in a report released late last week.

The new evaluation of loans between 1995 and 2004 found that the number of structural conditions in IMF-supported programmes came to an average of about 17 a year. The figure did not change after 2000.

"Overall, the analysis underscores that achieving the objectives of parsimony and criticality remains an important challenge for the fund, and greater efforts are needed in this direction," said Bernes.

Wealthy IMF members' appetite for binding borrowers' hands appears to be proving counter-productive.

"Most of these conditions had little structural depth and only about half of them were met on time," the report said. "Compliance was only weakly correlated with subsequent progress in structural reform."

"Compliance and effectiveness were higher in the areas of IMF core competency, such as public expenditure management and tax-related issues, and lower in areas such as privatisation and reform of the wider public sector," it added.

Evaluators recommended limiting the number of conditions to four or five a year.

"The use of structural benchmarks should be discontinued and measures with low structural content should not be part of conditionality. Normally, conditionality should be restricted to the core areas of IMF expertise," the report said.

Anything else, it added, should be left to the fund's sibling, the World Bank.

Additionally, monitoring and evaluation must be improved to "provide a more robust basis for assessing programme results".

Development experts long have said governments and voluntary organisations in poor countries are overwhelmed by heavy-handed conditionality, whether in exchange for the IMF's budget support or as the price of bilateral finance. Dictation from abroad also has been said to undermine locals' sense that aid efforts and structural reforms are theirs in the first place.

"Ownership of the reform programme by the economic team and by the line ministries in charge of the specific measures was necessary both for compliance and for continuity of the reform," the report said.

Added the evaluators: "Programme documents should explain how the proposed conditionality is critical to achieve explicit objectives." This would help to ensure that conditions remain true to the fund's mission and that borrowers are kept securely on board.

Especially in the case of concessional financing provided to poor countries through the fund's Poverty Reduction and Growth Facility, they said, "programme requests should be accompanied by an operational roadmap covering the length of the programme, explaining the proposed reforms, their sequencing, and expected impact."

IMF managers and staff, in written responses to the report, invoked a need to improve understanding of conditionality among outside critics.

This would be a good idea, the evaluations office said, but: "To do so effectively will require greater clarity from the Executive Board and in operational guidance than currently exists."

Emphasis is mine.
Bitter is a supercalifragilistic tic-tac-pro

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21977
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #101 on: December 20, 2009, 03:21:33 PM »
Bitther, nothing you "emphasize" indicates that the onerous conditions are illegal or even unfair.  He who controls the purse strings calls the shots.  All that lenghty article says is that the IMF is conditioning loans on demands that are not part of its initial mandate.  The article is clearly biased against the actions of the IMF so I understand the tone reflected throughout.  Why is there only quotes by opponents of the policies?  Why not include a quote from the other side as well to lend perspective as to how and why this "mission creep" came about?  There has been an attempt to reign in the "extraneous" why has this movement not been embraced?  Oh right... the "wealthy shareholders... impose conditions with little relevance to the IMF's remit"

... meanwhile "Wealthy IMF members' appetite for binding borrowers' hands appears to be proving counter-productive."

--------------------

Taking a look at the IPS website the "About Us" message explains the bias, they tell the "story underneath" from the perspective of developing nations.

Offline Bitter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 9672
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #102 on: December 20, 2009, 05:13:57 PM »
Unfair is in the eyes of the beholder, and we can disagree on that.
The watchdog is the IMF's Independent Evaluation Office.
http://www.ieo-imf.org/
Bitter is a supercalifragilistic tic-tac-pro

Offline WestCoast

  • The obvious is that which is never seen until someone expresses it simply
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 16066
  • "Let We Do What We Normally Does" :)
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #103 on: December 20, 2009, 05:18:52 PM »
The IMF don't force any country to come to them. If you can get China to bail you out, go for it. But I am almost sure China will want something in return. Any direction you go and you face the same predicament. The IMF basically is an institution of last resort. And it is certainly NOT a benevolent association.
That is the IMF line, Deeks.They have been shown to use their influence to block other options thereby tacitly coercing you to come to them as "the institution of last resort". Compton Bourne report and Davison Boodoo have shown this to be the case.
That is correct
The underlining ideology is to further "capitalism"
which is a very constrictive model when followed to the "T"
look HOW converluted the discussion about universal Health Care has become.......
Republican politicians have universal health care (I KNOW as my cousin is a state Rep), YET they dont want average americans to have it

Unfair is in the eyes of the beholder, and we can disagree on that.
The watchdog is the IMF's Independent Evaluation Office.
http://www.ieo-imf.org/
very àpropos
« Last Edit: December 20, 2009, 05:24:54 PM by WestCoast »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

Offline Bakes

  • Promethean...
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 21977
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #104 on: December 20, 2009, 07:51:22 PM »
Unfair is in the eyes of the beholder, and we can disagree on that.
The watchdog is the IMF's Independent Evaluation Office. http://www.ieo-imf.org/

I honestly never would have guessed...

"Progress had been made in better aligning IMF conditionality to its core areas of responsibility and expertise, but about one-third of conditions continued to reach outside these areas," said Tom Bernes, director of the fund's Independent Evaluation Office. released late last week.

Note however, how neutral Berne's statements are in stark contrast to the way the report is presented by the writer, Abid Aslam.

AirMan

  • Guest
TT$1.53 Billion going to help Air Jamaica, as T&T vows to help
« Reply #105 on: December 25, 2009, 10:50:09 AM »
Minister Keith Rowley was against this move saying Trinbagonians tax paying money should not be used to desperately help this airline survive..http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=161574218



Ready to help Air J'ca
T&T vows to assist troubled airline
By: Juhel Browne (T&T Express).


Friday, December 25th 2009

Trinidad and Tobago is ready and willing to assist Jamaica if it wants any short-term help to raise Jca $21.8 billion (TT$1.53 billion) needed to meet the requirements for a loan from the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

Energy Minister Conrad Enill said yesterday that although Trinidad and Tobago itself is facing a $7 billion deficit, any assistance for Jamaica is already available by way of this country’s (Caribbean Community) Caricom Petroleum Stabilisation Fund.

Enill’s comment comes on the heels of an address to the nation by Jamaican Prime Minister Bruce Golding on Wednesday night, in which he rolled back some of the General Consumption Tax measures he had announced last week that were meant to raise much needed additional revenue.

The move had come after public outcry over the tax package designed to raise $21.8 billion, which is the amount required to satisfy the Medium Term Economic Programme the Jamaican government has submitted to the IMF.

In his address, Golding told citizens,’I want to commend the people of Jamaica because despite the strong opposition to the measures announced last Thursday, the country was not shutdown; there has been no disruption; no violent demonstrations. This Government does not have to await an eruption to recognise that it has to change course. We have listened and we have heard.’

However, he added, ’Without that additional revenue, there will be no IMF programme. I want you to understand what this would mean. Without the money from the IMF, the exchange rate would come under severe pressure because with the fallout in bauxite and alumina earnings, remittances and other inflows, we would have difficulty in meeting the demand for foreign exchange.

’Without an IMF agreement, the additional funds from the World Bank and the Inter-American Development Bank, which we need to support the budget, would not be forthcoming. We have to find this $21.8 billion of additional revenue. That is the stark reality.’

The Caricom Petroleum Stabilisation Fund was established by the Patrick Manning administration in 2004, while Enill was then serving as the Minister in the Ministry of Finance.

Manning had said during the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM) last month that the fund amounted to US$79 million (TT$502.6) million last year.

’The Petroleum Fund was intended to give support to economies in the Caribbean that found themselves in the kind of difficulty that Jamaica finds itself in, but with short term support,’ Enill said in a telephone interview, in reference to the dire economic situation outlined by Golding.

There was no official word yesterday as to whether Jamaica has, or plans to approach this country for any significant financial assistance.

Enill said, however, the real question is not about whether Jamaica needs a loan, but how the Golding administration plans to get the country out of its deep financial hole.

’It is whether they have to reduce their expenditure or increase their revenue internally. That is more of a structure of the economy rather than cash flow. You see if Trinidad and Tobago gives them some support, that is what you call cash flow, but that would not change the structure,’ Enill said.

As arguments continue to go back and forth about the new property tax due to take effect in this country from January 1, 2010, Enill said Golding appears to be asking Jamaicans for the kind of help that the Government had asked of all Trinbagonians during the recessionary period in the 1990s, by contributing more through their taxes.

Golding came to Port of Spain last week to hold discussion with acting Prime Minister Dr Lenny Saith over a proposal by the State-owned Caribbean Airlines to either acquire of become involved in the operation of cash-strapped Air Jamaica.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2009, 07:46:30 AM by Flex »

Offline Bitter

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 9672
    • View Profile
Re: Jamaica PM flies in for Air Jamaica /CAL talks
« Reply #106 on: December 25, 2009, 11:13:11 AM »
Ready to help Air J'ca
T&T vows to assist troubled airline
Juhel Browne

Friday, December 25th 2009
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=161574218


Trinidad and Tobago is ready and willing to assist Jamaica if it wants any short-term help to raise Jca $21.8 billion (TT$1.53 billion) needed to meet the requirements for a loan from the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

Energy Minister Conrad Enill said yesterday that although Trinidad and Tobago itself is facing a $7 billion deficit, any assistance for Jamaica is already available by way of this country’s (Caribbean Community) Caricom Petroleum Stabilisation Fund.

Enill’s comment comes on the heels of an address to the nation by Jamaican Prime Minister Bruce Golding on Wednesday night, in which he rolled back some of the General Consumption Tax measures he had announced last week that were meant to raise much needed additional revenue.

The move had come after public outcry over the tax package designed to raise $21.8 billion, which is the amount required to satisfy the Medium Term Economic Programme the Jamaican government has submitted to the IMF.

In his address, Golding told citizens,’I want to commend the people of Jamaica because despite the strong opposition to the measures announced last Thursday, the country was not shutdown; there has been no disruption; no violent demonstrations. This Government does not have to await an eruption to recognise that it has to change course. We have listened and we have heard.’

However, he added, ’Without that additional revenue, there will be no IMF programme. I want you to understand what this would mean. Without the money from the IMF, the exchange rate would come under severe pressure because with the fallout in bauxite and alumina earnings, remittances and other inflows, we would have difficulty in meeting the demand for foreign exchange.

’Without an IMF agreement, the additional funds from the World Bank and the Inter-American Development Bank, which we need to support the budget, would not be forthcoming. We have to find this $21.8 billion of additional revenue. That is the stark reality.’

The Caricom Petroleum Stabilisation Fund was established by the Patrick Manning administration in 2004, while Enill was then serving as the Minister in the Ministry of Finance.

Manning had said during the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM) last month that the fund amounted to US$79 million (TT$502.6) million last year.

’The Petroleum Fund was intended to give support to economies in the Caribbean that found themselves in the kind of difficulty that Jamaica finds itself in, but with short term support,’ Enill said in a telephone interview, in reference to the dire economic situation outlined by Golding.

There was no official word yesterday as to whether Jamaica has, or plans to approach this country for any significant financial assistance.

Enill said, however, the real question is not about whether Jamaica needs a loan, but how the Golding administration plans to get the country out of its deep financial hole.

’It is whether they have to reduce their expenditure or increase their revenue internally. That is more of a structure of the economy rather than cash flow. You see if Trinidad and Tobago gives them some support, that is what you call cash flow, but that would not change the structure,’ Enill said.

As arguments continue to go back and forth about the new property tax due to take effect in this country from January 1, 2010, Enill said Golding appears to be asking Jamaicans for the kind of help that the Government had asked of all Trinbagonians during the recessionary period in the 1990s, by contributing more through their taxes.

Golding came to Port of Spain last week to hold discussion with acting Prime Minister Dr Lenny Saith over a proposal by the State-owned Caribbean Airlines to either acquire of become involved in the operation of cash-strapped Air Jamaica.
Bitter is a supercalifragilistic tic-tac-pro

Offline ProudTrinbagonian

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 895
    • View Profile
Re: TT$1.53 Billion going to help Air Jamaica, as T&T vows to help
« Reply #107 on: December 25, 2009, 02:34:36 PM »
it's Christmas and all but come on!
Ja is ungrateful and don't deserve a cent from us...help our own!
they ain't pay us back yet for time...steups
whey boy!

Offline Sando prince

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 8626
    • View Profile
Re: TT$1.53 Billion going to help Air Jamaica, as T&T vows to help
« Reply #108 on: January 07, 2010, 02:11:27 PM »
I'm still waiting on the developments from this....my grand mother sister had to go for mmediate surgery recently. Cost her over $10,000. I wonder if she could have received one dollar from this 1.3 billion

Offline TriniCana

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 7557
  • ah Catch ah Glad
    • View Profile
    • allyuhmuddaass@com
Re: TT$1.53 Billion going to help Air Jamaica, as T&T vows to help
« Reply #109 on: January 07, 2010, 05:22:54 PM »
Doh be surprised if allyuh ain't hear about some merger.
Man cyah be putting that substantial amount of money juss to help out.

Something playing in dey background

Offline ribbit

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 4294
  • T & T We Want A Goal !
    • View Profile
Re: TT$1.53 Billion going to help Air Jamaica, as T&T vows to help
« Reply #110 on: January 07, 2010, 09:26:42 PM »
Doh be surprised if allyuh ain't hear about some merger.
Man cyah be putting that substantial amount of money juss to help out.

Something playing in dey background

cana, ah doh know about a merger - de article saying funds are ready for use in a "short-term" crunch. dis suggesting some kind of low interest loan at best. imagine if de t&t taxpayer took a longer term position in jal. is either t&t taxpayer with an ownership stake and ja'n still managing de airline (dey eh running it well now) or de t&t taxpayer have to step in and take on de headache in some way - check de current govt projects to see how well one could expect a new venture to be managed. of course, either of these longer term situations offer patronage appts for pnm - maybe this what playing in de background.  :-\

Offline Dutty

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 9578
    • View Profile
Re: TT$1.53 Billion going to help Air Jamaica, as T&T vows to help
« Reply #111 on: January 07, 2010, 10:29:56 PM »
I doh under stand dis ting at all

If yuh competitor go belly up...is ah perfect opportunity for CAL to take Air Jamaica routes and expand dey business
why trow yuh competition ah lifeline?
Little known fact: The online transportation medium called Uber was pioneered in Trinidad & Tobago in the 1960's. It was originally called pullin bull.

truetrini

  • Guest
Re: TT$1.53 Billion going to help Air Jamaica, as T&T vows to help
« Reply #112 on: January 08, 2010, 06:48:33 AM »
Have any of you ever considered that we need our Caricom and Caribbean neighbors to be self sufficient as much as possible?  We enjoy a huge trade disparity with Jamaica, they buy many, many of our goods and services much more than we purchase from them!

If their economy were to flounder further, then it stands to reason our exports to there will decrease and negatively impact our economy more than the loan we provide.

Please stop looking with such a narrow minded view at everything this government does or tries to do.  It is always not as bad as the Press and Opposition makes it out to be.

Sando, I feel for your grandmother, but that fund was specially set up for a scenario just as this!   It is called The Caricom Petroleum Stabilisation Fund.

Now if you feel the government has the neeed to set up a fund to pay for citizens who need urgent medical care, then say so.  I feel the property tax could partly fund this. 

Offline Dutty

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 9578
    • View Profile
Re: TT$1.53 Billion going to help Air Jamaica, as T&T vows to help
« Reply #113 on: January 08, 2010, 06:45:16 PM »
Have any of you ever considered that we need our Caricom and Caribbean neighbors to be self sufficient as much as possible?  We enjoy a huge trade disparity with Jamaica, they buy many, many of our goods and services much more than we purchase from them!

If their economy were to flounder further, then it stands to reason our exports to there will decrease and negatively impact our economy more than the loan we provide.



dais ah fair enough theory in de bucket..but it leakin water

Is not agriculture , textiles or manufacturing the billion goin for ..is to prop up ah service industry that does get dey planes, tires etc. from developed countries...air jamaica doh pay piarco landin fees
so I doh understand how caricom trade benfefittin...and T&T tax payers

CAL could well benefit from lucrative air routes if air JA goes under.  I self would be interested in the backstory

either way the way de ting readin it look like the $1bill for the airline is a crutch and is more to pad up the coffers so they could reach the $21billion IMF target
Little known fact: The online transportation medium called Uber was pioneered in Trinidad & Tobago in the 1960's. It was originally called pullin bull.

truetrini

  • Guest
Re: TT$1.53 Billion going to help Air Jamaica, as T&T vows to help
« Reply #114 on: January 09, 2010, 01:56:28 AM »
Have any of you ever considered that we need our Caricom and Caribbean neighbors to be self sufficient as much as possible?  We enjoy a huge trade disparity with Jamaica, they buy many, many of our goods and services much more than we purchase from them!

If their economy were to flounder further, then it stands to reason our exports to there will decrease and negatively impact our economy more than the loan we provide.



dais ah fair enough theory in de bucket..but it leakin water

Is not agriculture , textiles or manufacturing the billion goin for ..is to prop up ah service industry that does get dey planes, tires etc. from developed countries...air jamaica doh pay piarco landin fees
so I doh understand how caricom trade benfefittin...and T&T tax payers

CAL could well benefit from lucrative air routes if air JA goes under.  I self would be interested in the backstory

either way the way de ting readin it look like the $1bill for the airline is a crutch and is more to pad up the coffers so they could reach the $21billion IMF target


The move to pad up the coffers is exactly what the loan was for!  What else?  Do you think that Caribben Airlines has been making money?

The Government spend about US$250 million to close down BWIA, then they spend an additional US$100 million to set up Caribbean Airlines with no service to europe.  Then dey spend another US$25 million to acquire Tobago Express. In 2006 when oil was 83 at barrel de CAL CEO say dat de airline go break even dat year and make a small profit in 2009.  At US$130 per barrel for oil in 2008, dat prediction also fall thru!

Air Jamaica has NEVER made a profit in 40 plus years...de world bank calling for ALL caribbean airlines to be shut down....as in ALL!

Read dis:

Caribbean Airlines should scrap the idea of a regional carrier as a merger with Air Jamaica will cost taxpayers billions and regional travellers will still face higher prices in the long run, local travel agents have said. “The talk of a regional carrier has been under consideration for decades now, but it requires compromise from the various governments, and none of them are interested in giving up their power or synchronising their regulation to bring down costs and make regional travel more efficient,” said Wayne Rodriguez, president, T&T Travel Agents Association. “Right now, both regional airlines are losing money at a phenomenal rate, so why must we sink more money into such a huge loss making enterprise? We simply cannot afford it at this time. The T&T government needs to focus on its own people, rather than sink hundreds of millions, or even billions of dollars, into this project as we did in the past.

“The deal sounds like a substitution of the Jamaican government spending money into the failing Air Jamaica, into the Trinidad government spending taxpayers’ money on the airline instead. We cannot take on the cost of bailing out two airlines as Caribbean Airlines is also losing money. “The global economy is struggling and the Caricom tourism industry isn’t reorganising its pricing structure to cater for regional tourism or inter-island travel,” Rodriguez said. Rodriquez said the vast majority of regional resorts and hotels are priced for the high-end US or European vacationer, and that T&T has totally priced itself out of the regional market. “How can you encourage a regional airline and travel industry, when no one in the region can afford to stay in our hotels? It is cheaper to fly from Trinidad to Miami and stay in a hotel there than it is to travel to Barbados, right next door, for your typical vacation.

“To me, a lot has to be done before we should even consider a regional airline, and that ground work has not been done, and no one is taking the initiative to make these changes. “Until these issues are addressed, we will just be wasting a lot of money, to fail in the final analysis. “For Trinidadians, this can turn out to be a very contentious issue because we cannot afford to be throwing billions into these airlines when we still have major issues to deal with at home, such as healthcare, social services, education and crime.” “We should not have closed down BWIA in the first place, as that whole process has alienated many of the airline’s stakeholders, including the travel agents who bought in a significant percentage of the airline’s revenues. Selling our airline slots at London at firesale prices was also a wrong decision, and we are still paying for that decision. Right now, British Airways has taken over the London route into the Caribbean, and we have no response to offer.

“In theory, a regional carrier sounds like a good idea, but practically, it will be a disaster. It was attempted by both government agencies and even the private sector with the (Allen) Stanford-run airline, and they all failed after consuming huge sums of money. “The fundamentals of the regional economy has not changed. In fact, it has become even worse, so you will not have the demand for air travel to warrant this kind of expenditure. “Hotels are not going to adjust their prices to cater for the regional market, and the low demand, as well as indifference among regional governments, will not facilitate competition to bring prices down. This will be a significant loss for taxpayers as well as travellers and it just should not be a project government should consider at this time.”

Home-grown airline
Kevin Kenny, president, Trinidad, Hotel, Restaurant and Tourism Association, said, “without competition, a regional airline that has exclusive access to regional transportation will become inefficient and consumers will face higher prices and poor service.” Kenny said most stakeholders providing accommodation and ground services were optimistic about the announcement of a merger, and he’s hoping the authorities were serious about the proposals. “The move has been long overdue,” Kenny said. “It is obvious to all the stakeholders the region needs one airline that is home-grown, with one set of overheads, so it can compete with both international carriers and local providers. “The short answer is that the Caribbean is in dire need of a Caribbean-owned airline that is financially viable. That is the only way to keep fares down to match the large multinational airlines. If we have an airline that has a vested interest in the Caribbean, then we can have more control over our tourism industry.”

de only reason we sending dat money is as yuh say to pad de coffers!

Thanks

Offline ProudTrinbagonian

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 895
    • View Profile
Re: TT$1.53 Billion going to help Air Jamaica, as T&T vows to help
« Reply #115 on: January 09, 2010, 10:36:10 AM »
I'm still waiting on the developments from this....my grand mother sister had to go for mmediate surgery recently. Cost her over $10,000. I wonder if she could have received one dollar from this 1.3 billion

Sorry to hear this kinda talk...

So much blasted money but where is the talent to manage it?
whey boy!

Offline Conquering Lion

  • Tell me how can a man who doh know his roots form his own ideology?
  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 674
    • View Profile
Re: TT$1.53 Billion going to help Air Jamaica, as T&T vows to help
« Reply #116 on: January 09, 2010, 11:15:53 AM »
Have any of you ever considered that we need our Caricom and Caribbean neighbors to be self sufficient as much as possible?  We enjoy a huge trade disparity with Jamaica, they buy many, many of our goods and services much more than we purchase from them!

If their economy were to flounder further, then it stands to reason our exports to there will decrease and negatively impact our economy more than the loan we provide.

Please stop looking with such a narrow minded view at everything this government does or tries to do.  It is always not as bad as the Press and Opposition makes it out to be.

Sando, I feel for your grandmother, but that fund was specially set up for a scenario just as this!   It is called The Caricom Petroleum Stabilisation Fund.

Now if you feel the government has the neeed to set up a fund to pay for citizens who need urgent medical care, then say so.  I feel the property tax could partly fund this. 


So how does this injection of money promote self-sufficiency?
Was due diligence performed? What has been put in place to ensure that Air Jamaica/Jamaica can repay the money.

1.53 billion could go a long way to help some of the problems in T&T with the health sector and general infrastructure. I would only agree with such a loan if it makes good business sense for T&T.
We fire de old set ah managers we had wukkin..and iz ah new group we went and we bring in. And if the goods we require de new managers not supplying, when election time come back round iz new ones we bringin. For iz one ting about my people I can guarantee..They will never ever vote party b4 country

Offline Sando prince

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 8626
    • View Profile
Re: TT$1.53 Billion going to help Air Jamaica, as T&T vows to help
« Reply #117 on: January 10, 2010, 12:21:29 PM »
I'm still waiting on the developments from this....my grand mother sister had to go for mmediate surgery recently. Cost her over $10,000. I wonder if she could have received one dollar from this 1.3 billion

Sorry to hear this kinda talk...

So much blasted money but where is the talent to manage it?

Talent ?..maybe the talent is not being showcased because i cant point it out

AirMan

  • Guest
Re: TT$1.53 Billion going to help Air Jamaica, as T&T vows to help
« Reply #118 on: January 12, 2010, 09:32:13 PM »
I'm still waiting on the developments from this....my grand mother sister had to go for mmediate surgery recently. Cost her over $10,000. I wonder if she could have received one dollar from this 1.3 billion


Caribbean Airlines set to acquire Air Jamaica
Tuesday 12th January, 2010


Jamaican Prime Minister Bruce Golding is scheduled to deliver an address to the nation tomorrow night and expectations are running high in Kingston that he will announce a deal for Caribbean Airlines to acquire the troubled jamaican airline, Air Jamaica.


No details about the possible takeover of Air Jamaica by Caribbean Airlines have been made public in Port of Spain, but disposal of the debt-ridden airline is key to an agreement between the Jamaican government and the International Monetary Fund which is expected to be signed by the end of this month.

Online Deeks

  • Hero Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 16777
    • View Profile
Re: TT$1.53 Billion going to help Air Jamaica, as T&T vows to help
« Reply #119 on: January 13, 2010, 07:36:14 PM »
what is the latest on this.