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Offline Flex

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Romany: No good knocking Pro League.
« on: February 12, 2007, 06:54:59 AM »
Romany: No good knocking Pro League.
By: Kern De Freitas (Express).
[/size]

The locally-based Soca Warriors' biggest problem is not the level of football they play, but their lack of exposure.
That is the view of T&T Pro League chairman Larry Romany, as he responded to statements by national coach Wim Rijsbergen following a disappointing performance in two friendly internationals in Central America, where T&T were beaten 2-1 by Panama and 4-0 by Costa Rica.
Romany felt it was unrealistic to expect emphatic wins from the new blood of the Warriors.
"I find it difficult to believe that we would be going to Panama and Costa Rica expecting to win this match easily," he told the Express.
Romany also admitted the Pro League is not at the highest international standard.
"I don't think it is any surprise that the team (of Pro League players) is not up to the (English) Premiership standard, or (Spanish) La Liga standard," he said, though he felt Rijsbergen might have "specific expectations" of his players.
"I don't know if a lot of these players can make the next step," Rijsbergen had exclaimed following the loss to the Costa Rican "Ticos".
The Dutchman also said he was not looking for the players to be used as "training partners", concluding: "If they drop back in the same speed and the same level in the Pro League, they will probably never make the difference."
But Romany felt that public criticism of the team's shortcomings would not solve any of their current problems.
"He (Rijsbergen) could make some suggestions to the Pro League as to what could be done," the T&T Olympic Committee president said, "instead of making a carte blanche statement about the level of players in the Pro League."
Contributing to the poor performances by the national team, he felt, was also the fact that some of the T&T-based players were unavailable to Rijsbergen, due to a "legal entanglement with the Pro League".
Romany said: "I don't see anything good coming out of his criticising the League without meeting with the League and coaches to discuss what can be done."
He pointed out, however, that some international exposure might help some of those problems.
"I think that any time you have the national team in training for 2010, I would have imagined the coach would schedule a game every month leading up to that. You are only as good as the people that you play against."
He further expressed the opinion that the Pro League players needed to be placed in a more competitive environment to determine whether they can rise to the "next level".
"If we are talking fitness, then by doing so (criticising), you are just selling guns to the Indians. You are telling the opposition how to play us," Romany concluded.
World class tools needed.
...for world class standards.



In his thought provoking book entitled ‘You are What you Think,’ David Stoop made the point that whenever we become angry, we have initial feelings of hurt, frustration, or implied threat, that we need to pay attention to.
But when we get over those initial feelings and still feel angry, it is because we are making demands on another person or situation. The basic word at the root cause of anger is the word should.
The “shoulds” reflect a demand. Stoop believes that placing demands on people are irrational, for at least three reasons.
(1) It makes us angry about something that has already happened (2) it makes us confront our own helplessness and (3) it engenders resistance.
Following the young and inexperienced Soca Warriors, 4 – nil thrashing at the feet of Costa Rica, Stoop came to mind as I read post match comments attributed to coach Wim Risjbergen and his assistant Anton Corneal.
Both men were quoted as coming down very hard on local based players and the T&T Pro League. On the credit side, it is evident that both men consider the local professional football league a vital cog in the success or failure of the national team.
I wonder though what yard stick or context is Risjbergen and Corneal using to place demands that are appropriate in Holland, Italy, Spain, England, France and Brazil to name a few, where the football pedigree and infrastructure is iconic.
The T&T Pro League on the other hand, a mere babe in comparison, now in the embryonic stages of its incarnation, comprising clubs whose roster showcase local football talent produced by the existing football development infrastructure.
Brazil recently lost to Portugal, 2-nil. Following the match, the Brazilian coach Dunga told the media. "We have to learn from it. We are starting to prepare for the World Cup. This showed us we have much left to learn. That is football. I thought we would win, but you are not always going to. You have to take responsibility as coach.”
Barcelona coach Frank Rijkaard shouldered the blame when Barcelona lost one-nil in the Club World Cup final to Brazilian side Inter but insisted: “losing one match is not the end of the world.” World class coaches seem to consider it a cardinal error to publicly criticize their teams or players.
Tim O’Leary in his book: “Warriors, Workers, Whiners and Weasels” made the point that what separates a Warrior from a Weasel is stepping up to the plate when times are rough. “A general who loses a war because his lieutenant did not protect a flank still loses the war.”
O’Leary is adamant that leadership is about taking responsibility for failures as easily as one enjoys the praise when there is success.
Sevilla is a serious contender to win the Spanish league, their coach Juande Ramos said recently that the key to his club’s success is convincing his players to be ambitious, assured and confident.
He also made the point that he does not just dump players, bring in new ones and change his structure because of bad results.
I try to make the players see that you win or lose but there is a path and an identity that they must stick to. My team has total confidence in our system. You need your players to believe or else they will fear for the result and stop taking the risks that will make you a good team.”
I hope that the TTFF will have patience and see the benefit of investing in the ongoing development of the young team and their inexperienced coaching staff. Losing is an important part of the development process. I refer again to Dunga’s post match comments as it puts into perspective what preparing for the 2010 FIFA World Cup is about.
It would also be of great significance if Risjbergen and Corneal were to meet and discuss with the T&T Pro League specific and well articulated recommendations on what can be done to improve the players and speed of play.
Another issue for discussion should be the involvement of a sports physiologist, sport psychologist and nutritionist. If we are to hold our national teams to world class standards, they need World class tools and support systems. It is always easy and disingenuous to make athletes scapegoats for what are in effect systemic failures and an inadequate and archaic development infrastructure.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2007, 06:15:27 PM by Flex »
The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

Offline KND2

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The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2007, 08:17:54 AM »
And the leaders of the Proleague like Romany and Skeete should not be afraid to admit it and be Frank about it.

Any time people say anything bad about the league they quick to defend it and say the criticizim is unfair.

They are the equivalent of a Fat man who refuse to admit that he is fat rather wishing to be called big boned.

Even Williams  statement that the league being able to provide coaches adminstrators players with a professional statement is nonsense and this is why.


When this league started in is eary form back in the early 90's as a semi pro with Joe public etc.

back them it was OK to say,

This is a start
We have players playing whole day as a Job
We have coaches getting paid 

This is 2007 we should have gone somewhere by now, and fact is the league is at the same standard.
It is not improving and it is SHIT.

This league has a zero fan base,
Let somebody Publish gate receipts by year for the last 10 years.

How can you have a professional league and year after year no fans, who is fixing that and what is being done.

How many of these clubs "OWN" a piece of land that they can call their OWN training ground.

How many of them have a training facility where a player can go and sit on a treatment table and get a bag of ice from an ice machine.

How many of them are challenging their players to really improve.

How many of the lower level teams are really trying to improve.


I have been to these teams training sessions and this is not no professional football.

It is only professional in name, outside of W connection and sometimes Jabloteh how many of these teams really are run with a professional mindset.
It is almost impossible because most of them do not have professional $$
Most of them have no fan base, so how can they be professional.

Even Joe Public is not professional,

The problem with Trinidad Football as with any other aspect of life is that

Talent is good enough to get you by.

W connection can get a few brazilians, Jabolteh can find a few hot men and same for Joe Public and they can easily win or come close to the top of the league.

The problem becomes what happens when you meet men with similar talent levels, then it becomes an issue, because now it is not enough.
Now fitness plays a part, now mental strenght under pressure plays a part.

Until the proleague consitiently beats teams from USA MEXICO Costa Rica they cannot be considered as ready.

The mentality of the Pro League must be that we are not good and we are strive-ing to get better.
The feedback coming from the Pro League leadership is , Why this man fighting we down so? we doing good look we have world cup players in the league like Whitley.

This mindset will permeate down through the league leadership to the players.

Typical Trini Mindset.

Why he criticizing we?

If we are to compare W connection 2007 to say Trintoc 1987  a 20 year differnce is w connection is much more Professional team?
And if so
Is the improvement an acceptable level to reflect 20 years of advancement.


Not because you get a paycheck
not because you does train in the morning when everybody else gone to work an 8-5 and then come back and train in the afternoon

not because of that it makes you professional.

A professional is much more than that.


Anybody with an unbiased opinion can see that the PFL is not truely professional.
And if your feeling hurt when somebody tell you that, then you have no need to be in charge of the league,


yes the league might have some talented players, but talent is only step 1

we have step 2 , step 3 step 4 etc to go before you can be fully professional.

Really and truly is this league, the football product, the organizational level, the financial level, is this league any better than the TTFF league back in the late 80's early 90's with the likes of Trintoc, defence force, etc etc.

Wim is right this league cannot prepare our players to compete in world football.
And if the league will not admit that fact they will never admit that they have to improve from where they currently are!





Offline Tenorsaw

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2007, 08:33:14 AM »
Boss yuh have some valid points.  The problem that I have with the league is complacency.  Up to now many of the PFL clubs don't have an official website.  That is something that should be mandated by the league.  SO ah man or foreign scout cyar go on a website and look up player info, etc.  The teams not trying to STRUCTURE themselves.  I was on reggae boyz wewbsite and they feature one of their clubs.  The club had its own lighted ground, weight training facility, living quarters, and a structured system that ran all the way down to  the under 13 age group.  They also had a team doctor.  And this league is not even fully professional.  We only professional in name if yuh ask me.  This is what the league needs to do:

1. Establish minimum coaching standards that head coaches need to have, and gradually raise the required certification for coaching every 3-5 years, until we get up to the desired level.

2. Mandate that all teams have certified sports medicine personnel

3.  Mandate that all PFL clubs develop a longterm plan for facility development, and make it a goal that must be established in the next 5-8 years.

4. Make it compulsory that an established minimum amount of money be invested in the youth structure of all clubs.

5. Chart a marketing plan for the league and let it permeate down to each team with a specific plan of action.

6.  Make it necessary that all teams establish some sort of organizational structure that must be adhered to.

The bottom line is that football is still running like ah sweat, rather than a business.  Until that mindset changes, football back home will never improve.  There must be an urgent want for continuous improvement.


Offline fatman

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2007, 09:32:06 AM »
 While i agree the league cannot be satisfied with where it has reached ,i am satisfied that the people in charge are making every effort to improve the game in t&t they need the support of trinbagonians every where it is easy to stay in a next country and criticize but we need people to contribute meaningfully in some way or another if even it is to come in the stadium with shit playing create an atmosphere and give our youngsters encouragement.larry romany is very experienced and is an intelligent man fully aware that the league is not at its best.his comments should not be taken lightly in any country in the world he would have been a major player in sport organization he is no fool.wim appearsto be more concerned with his international record than developing football in the country(as most internationall coaches are) which is what the proleague is trying to do mentalities and mindsets take ages to change what trinbago footballl needs is people to make positive inputs if wim was serious he would have arranged meetings with officials and coaches.we have a habit of wasting down everything and everyone local.certain people i hold in as high esteem as any american or german in their area and romany is one.
larry romany is among them take heed to what he says .patience is needed.a short while ago i found MLS GAMES BORING AND UNBEARABLE THAT IS CHANGING .our local football shall also improve .
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 09:40:40 AM by fatman »

Offline christiano

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2007, 09:51:55 AM »
And the leaders of the Proleague like Romany and Skeete should not be afraid to admit it and be Frank about it.

Any time people say anything bad about the league they quick to defend it and say the criticizim is unfair.

They are the equivalent of a Fat man who refuse to admit that he is fat rather wishing to be called big boned.

Even Williams  statement that the league being able to provide coaches adminstrators players with a professional statement is nonsense and this is why.


When this league started in is eary form back in the early 90's as a semi pro with Joe public etc.

back them it was OK to say,

This is a start
We have players playing whole day as a Job
We have coaches getting paid 

This is 2007 we should have gone somewhere by now, and fact is the league is at the same standard.
It is not improving and it is SHIT.

This league has a zero fan base,
Let somebody Publish gate receipts by year for the last 10 years.

How can you have a professional league and year after year no fans, who is fixing that and what is being done.

How many of these clubs "OWN" a piece of land that they can call their OWN training ground.

How many of them have a training facility where a player can go and sit on a treatment table and get a bag of ice from an ice machine.

How many of them are challenging their players to really improve.

How many of the lower level teams are really trying to improve.


I have been to these teams training sessions and this is not no professional football.

It is only professional in name, outside of W connection and sometimes Jabloteh how many of these teams really are run with a professional mindset.
It is almost impossible because most of them do not have professional $$
Most of them have no fan base, so how can they be professional.

Even Joe Public is not professional,

The problem with Trinidad Football as with any other aspect of life is that

Talent is good enough to get you by.

W connection can get a few brazilians, Jabolteh can find a few hot men and same for Joe Public and they can easily win or come close to the top of the league.

The problem becomes what happens when you meet men with similar talent levels, then it becomes an issue, because now it is not enough.
Now fitness plays a part, now mental strenght under pressure plays a part.

Until the proleague consitiently beats teams from USA MEXICO Costa Rica they cannot be considered as ready.

The mentality of the Pro League must be that we are not good and we are strive-ing to get better.
The feedback coming from the Pro League leadership is , Why this man fighting we down so? we doing good look we have world cup players in the league like Whitley.

This mindset will permeate down through the league leadership to the players.

Typical Trini Mindset.

Why he criticizing we?

If we are to compare W connection 2007 to say Trintoc 1987  a 20 year differnce is w connection is much more Professional team?
And if so
Is the improvement an acceptable level to reflect 20 years of advancement.


Not because you get a paycheck
not because you does train in the morning when everybody else gone to work an 8-5 and then come back and train in the afternoon

not because of that it makes you professional.

A professional is much more than that.


Anybody with an unbiased opinion can see that the PFL is not truely professional.
And if your feeling hurt when somebody tell you that, then you have no need to be in charge of the league,


yes the league might have some talented players, but talent is only step 1

we have step 2 , step 3 step 4 etc to go before you can be fully professional.

Really and truly is this league, the football product, the organizational level, the financial level, is this league any better than the TTFF league back in the late 80's early 90's with the likes of Trintoc, defence force, etc etc.

Wim is right this league cannot prepare our players to compete in world football.
And if the league will not admit that fact they will never admit that they have to improve from where they currently are!

/quote]

You have said so well what alot of people choose to ignore !
It will be interesting to find out what are the salaries of Pro-Leage players and we will understand that these players are more semi-pro than professional.

We have a long way to go !!

Many athletes can  run 10 seconds. But the work required to move from 10.00 to 9.9 may take years of hard work.

For many people 10 is good enough until we meet people that do what is required to take their game to the next level.

In T&T this is our problem not only in football but in everything we do !





You have said so well what alot of people choose to ignore !
It will be interesting to find out what are the salaries of Pro-Leage players and we will understand that these players are more semi-pro than professional.

We have a long way to go !!

Many athletes can  run 10 seconds. But the work required to move from 10.00 to 9.9 may take years of hard work.

For many people 10 is good enough until we meet people that do what is required to take their game to the next level.

In T&T this is our problem not only in football but in everything we do !



« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 09:57:42 AM by christiano »

Offline Green Beret

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2007, 11:35:51 AM »
It is so easy to call the T&T Pro League $#!t. And from what I constantly read on here, it seems as if the league has little to no following.

So my question is this, where are all the “so called” die-hard Soca Warrior fans? The ones who live in T&T I mean. Where are the 25,000 who filled the Stadium when T&T faced Bahrain? Do they not realize that success for the Soca Warriors is intimately linked to the success of the Pro League? Does the league not need support and fanfare to get to raise its level, to motivate the players, to give them pride in their accomplishments and achievements? Do you think it invigorates Carlos, Dwight and Stern to hear a Sunderland crowd, or any crowd react to their exploits on the field? Would it not do that same for the players in the Pro League.

Ultimately, success of the Pro League will translate to success for the Soca Warriors. And the sooner the local fans realize that, the sooner you will see T&T rise through CONCACAF. Unless you are all satisfied with riding the crest of the wave when the team coincidentally does well and jumping off when it doesn’t. But that is not what being fans is about. You NEED to start supporting the Pro League because the long-term development of T&T football depends more on the Pro League than it does on 1, 2, 3 or 4 T&T players getting overseas contract.

T&T fans are more concerned about what goes on in La Liga, Serie A and the EPL than they are in their own Pro League. Ask yourself, do Spain, Italy and England need your support for success, or does the Soca Warriors? 
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Offline fatman

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2007, 11:52:53 AM »
 green beret has hit the nail on the head,this is what our football needs more than any thing.

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2007, 12:04:54 PM »
It is so easy to call the T&T Pro League $#!t. And from what I constantly read on here, it seems as if the league has little to no following.

So my question is this, where are all the “so called” die-hard Soca Warrior fans? The ones who live in T&T I mean. Where are the 25,000 who filled the Stadium when T&T faced Bahrain? Do they not realize that success for the Soca Warriors is intimately linked to the success of the Pro League? Does the league not need support and fanfare to get to raise its level, to motivate the players, to give them pride in their accomplishments and achievements? Do you think it invigorates Carlos, Dwight and Stern to hear a Sunderland crowd, or any crowd react to their exploits on the field? Would it not do that same for the players in the Pro League.

Ultimately, success of the Pro League will translate to success for the Soca Warriors. And the sooner the local fans realize that, the sooner you will see T&T rise through CONCACAF. Unless you are all satisfied with riding the crest of the wave when the team coincidentally does well and jumping off when it doesn’t. But that is not what being fans is about. You NEED to start supporting the Pro League because the long-term development of T&T football depends more on the Pro League than it does on 1, 2, 3 or 4 T&T players getting overseas contract.

T&T fans are more concerned about what goes on in La Liga, Serie A and the EPL than they are in their own Pro League. Ask yourself, do Spain, Italy and England need your support for success, or does the Soca Warriors?


We have never agreed before but I totally agree with you on this post, 100%, I wish players didnt have to go outside of Trinidad, bc I rather support pro league and I do fully, I could care less about the other leagues unless a trini is playing...

God is de BOSS...

Offline Socafan

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Re: Romany: No good knocking Pro League.
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2007, 12:09:24 PM »
Aaaahhhh......Finally......!!!

It seems like Romany is indeed alive. GREAT!!!!Stand up for yourself and your product man!!!! Let people know that SOMEONE in TNT can voice about football.

BUT.......

What de hell did he just say!!!?? Did he just say that the Pro-league has no clue how to fix it's problems and is inviting Wim to come and show them how? Lawd have mercy!!
And how could he say that "he finds it difficult to believe in an expectation of beating Panama and Costa Rica" Aren't we Digicel Champions runners up? Should we at least be expected to beat Panama?
What Romany do is basically agree with Wim in that the pro-league is crap, that they eh have any idea how to fix it, and then tell Wim is his fault the team is Crap because he did not meet with pro-league officials and coaches. Who supposed to organize these meetings boy, Wim!!?
Disappointing response.

Fellas...we football in ah state.
Two islands are better than one.

Offline Socafan

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2007, 12:23:11 PM »
It is so easy to call the T&T Pro League $#!t. And from what I constantly read on here, it seems as if the league has little to no following.

So my question is this, where are all the “so called” die-hard Soca Warrior fans? The ones who live in T&T I mean. Where are the 25,000 who filled the Stadium when T&T faced Bahrain? Do they not realize that success for the Soca Warriors is intimately linked to the success of the Pro League? Does the league not need support and fanfare to get to raise its level, to motivate the players, to give them pride in their accomplishments and achievements? Do you think it invigorates Carlos, Dwight and Stern to hear a Sunderland crowd, or any crowd react to their exploits on the field? Would it not do that same for the players in the Pro League.

Ultimately, success of the Pro League will translate to success for the Soca Warriors. And the sooner the local fans realize that, the sooner you will see T&T rise through CONCACAF. Unless you are all satisfied with riding the crest of the wave when the team coincidentally does well and jumping off when it doesn’t. But that is not what being fans is about. You NEED to start supporting the Pro League because the long-term development of T&T football depends more on the Pro League than it does on 1, 2, 3 or 4 T&T players getting overseas contract.

T&T fans are more concerned about what goes on in La Liga, Serie A and the EPL than they are in their own Pro League. Ask yourself, do Spain, Italy and England need your support for success, or does the Soca Warriors? 


The fans aren't aware that there is a pro-league worth watching.
Two islands are better than one.

Offline KND2

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2007, 12:44:51 PM »
Well I guess the question is Which come first the chicken or the egg?

is it the fault of the Fans who do not show up to support the PFL because they have something else to do.

or is it the Fault of the PFL for not having a product that people gravitate to and are willing to follow.

The problem is obviously not football fans because everybody watching champions league on TV.

Are they not watching the league because they think it is shit
or is the league shit because they not getting any Fan support.

either way the league is shit!

There are many simple things the league can do to get more Fans.
But my fustration is I see very little changes in the marketing of the league over the years.


how about this?

Have a PFL game as part of a double header with a SSFL game, at least then you might get a lil school boy crowd support.

How about this.

Have a school outing day match.

Play a PFL game at 11 AM in the moring and organize a field trip day for all primary schools in the area.
If you get 10 primary schools to send 1000 students each that is 10000 fan instantly. turn it into a field trip with different fun events.

maybe even this

parthner with a big fete and everybody that present a PFL ticket get $10 off addmission to the party.


these men need to come up with something because right now we going through the motions




Offline davidephraim

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2007, 01:17:41 PM »
It is so easy to call the T&T Pro League $#!t. And from what I constantly read on here, it seems as if the league has little to no following.

So my question is this, where are all the “so called” die-hard Soca Warrior fans? The ones who live in T&T I mean. Where are the 25,000 who filled the Stadium when T&T faced Bahrain? Do they not realize that success for the Soca Warriors is intimately linked to the success of the Pro League? Does the league not need support and fanfare to get to raise its level, to motivate the players, to give them pride in their accomplishments and achievements? Do you think it invigorates Carlos, Dwight and Stern to hear a Sunderland crowd, or any crowd react to their exploits on the field? Would it not do that same for the players in the Pro League.

Ultimately, success of the Pro League will translate to success for the Soca Warriors. And the sooner the local fans realize that, the sooner you will see T&T rise through CONCACAF. Unless you are all satisfied with riding the crest of the wave when the team coincidentally does well and jumping off when it doesn’t. But that is not what being fans is about. You NEED to start supporting the Pro League because the long-term development of T&T football depends more on the Pro League than it does on 1, 2, 3 or 4 T&T players getting overseas contract.

T&T fans are more concerned about what goes on in La Liga, Serie A and the EPL than they are in their own Pro League. Ask yourself, do Spain, Italy and England need your support for success, or does the Soca Warriors?


We have never agreed before but I totally agree with you on this post, 100%, I wish players didnt have to go outside of Trinidad, bc I rather support pro league and I do fully, I could care less about the other leagues unless a trini is playing...

God is de BOSS...

When me and My old man was going  to see defence force take on trintoc or we going to watch san fernando tech in de south you think is patriotism was making we drive so far? Yuh only learn big words like patriotism when yuh leave de country because before dat all ah we is trini so everybody is a patriot. man does only fly trini flag in dey car in foreign because to do it in trini is like writing mazda on a mazda..come on fellas it was for de love of de ball why we get involved in dis ting in de first place not patriotism and the standard of de ball hasnt increased but rather dwindled. yuh know how I know? because now We cya even field 6 TnT nationals on we best PFL team nor can we field 6 players from all de dam teams put together to make de national squad. Look at de Strike Squad, tell me who was playing foreign ball in dat 18-man squad? So where is this progress that de professional league was supposed to bring?   you tell me what is to bring out these 25000 people that everybody talkin bout? But we must move forward so we establish a PFL. Great but clearly it is lacking in that we have lost de story clashes (rivalries), de flair and most of all de love of de game.  All is not lost, if yuh lacking in  one department build in the others nah, do what is necessary to intice de public in other ways, bring de game back to de public  but de PFL leaders has failed to do this or have they even noticed enough ponder..... Dont tell meh puttin de thing on de internet should count either because dat only helps us misplaced foreigners it doh do a dam thing for de man who they relying on for ticket sales. What have they done to cater to that man or woman? He is de bread and butter. Have they catered to him or her? so why should people (some of who already ketchin dey ass) spend dey hard earned dollars for mediocre ball or service or sometimes both...because of patriotism?  I shudder to think.
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Offline Green Beret

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2007, 01:22:58 PM »
Well partner, I hear all that you saying. But all I know is that there is so much more riding on the success of that PFL league than the league itself. And anybody who think that the Soca Warriors will rise to be a consistent dominant force in CONCACAF without a thriving PFL is sadly mistaken. Not when compared to the Mexican League/Mexico and the MLS/US combination. I don’t know about the Costa Rican league, but if I am to use their international performance as an indication, I’ll have to bet that it is in good standing.

If dominance over Barbados, St. Vincent and Martinique is where its at, then you are already there, even without the PFL. But you’ve always been there. From what I read on here, the expectations I interpret from posts on here, I know the stakes are much higher.

I just don’t understand how it is, out of all those “passionate” fans residing in T&T, PFL don’t get much support.

Suffice it to say, with no strong, well-supported PFL, almost with certainty, no “consistently” strong Soca Warriors. IMHO.
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Offline Baygo Boy

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2007, 01:24:04 PM »
KND2, our pro league cannot be considered a shit league - all things considered, we are constantly exporting talent for such a small nation. Foreign clubs are looking at our players all the time. Anyone that expexted a T&T pro league to bust out by now don't understand T&T, and should take at look at the history of some of the leagues we glorify today. Our league is in its start-up stage, and I personally don't expect anything more until the so-called FANs step up

Those of us in the know - see the T&T pro league for what it is, a stepping stone environment at this time. For as long as the FAN POOL in T&T is dwindling like it is, you cannot expect any type of significant growth. T&T pro league supposed to have a ready made market, just like England etc, but we are not football lovers in T&T, WE LIKE THE LIME, THE GAME MEANS NOTHING TO MOST. So please point yuh finger in the right direction, but be careful yuh jook out yuh eye.

The efforts by Skeene and others has to be commended. If there are no fans, there will be no sponsors, therefore very liitle progress. You may argue that the Pro league should do more to get the fans into the stands, but then what kind of fans are we that need the pro league to inspire us to come to games when we telling the world that football is we national pass time - who yuh fooling?

You mentioned your visits to training sessions - have you ever been to the training sessions of other so-called pro club? If you have then you will recognize that there are not too many differences - guys goof around, cuss each other, talk about who fu8king who gul, and how much pints they chug down last night, the difference for the most part is only in perception, and economics.

Oh by the way - please give me your definition of professional.



 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 01:28:25 PM by Baygo Boy »

Offline Coop's

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2007, 01:43:35 PM »
I told myself not to say anything on this topic but after reading some of these posts i'm tempted.

I never thought T&T would ever reach to the stage where we have to beg people to come and watch Football,especially after we qualified for a WC finals,it seems to me like we made a name for ourselves all over the world except in T&T,this achievement was suppose to be a boost for the local game,i'll repeat myself again the only thing to bring back the crowds in Football is the game itself,if that improves the crowds will come out,i don't think the suggestions being made here can do it by itself.

We are very quick to label who shytty,for example Saudi Arabia/Bahrain etc etc i wonder what kind of crowds they get for their local games,from our reports they are shytty teams,a man even used Jamaican teams as an example,some how we rate ourselves better than them,we say Haiti is a ketch ass country and i'm sure the people there support their league,what's going on?there are a lot of reasons why we are not what or where our Football should be and the main reason is a lot of talk and no action,no one is accountable to anybody for their actions,too many people are comfortable in their positions so don't matter what they do they their to stay.

It's easy to point fingers at certain people when things not right,as i said before we are still amateurs opperating in a professional world,how to get out of that don't ask me,but i know complaints and excuses will not help us,we rate ourselves as one of the best in the region we should be the ones setting standards for all those countrys to follow but it seems like we still follwing other countrys including some from our region.

Offline davidephraim

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2007, 01:45:54 PM »
KND2, our pro league cannot be considered a shit league - all things considered, we are constantly exporting talent for such a small nation. Foreign clubs are looking at our players all the time. Anyone that expexted a T&T pro league to bust out by now don't understand T&T, and should take at look at the history of some of the leagues we glorify today. Our league is in its start-up stage, and I personally don't expect anything more until the so-called FANs step up

Those of us in the know - see the T&T pro league for what it is, a stepping stone environment at this time. For as long as the FAN POOL in T&T is dwindling like it is, you cannot expect any type of significant growth. T&T pro league supposed to have a ready made market, just like England etc, but we are not football lovers in T&T, WE LIKE THE LIME, THE GAME MEANS NOTHING TO MOST. So please point yuh finger in the right direction, but be careful yuh jook out yuh eye.

The efforts by Skeene and others has to be commended. If there are no fans, there will be no sponsors, therefore very liitle progress. You may argue that the Pro league should do more to get the fans into the stands, but then what kind of fans are we that need the pro league to inspire us to come to games when we telling the world that football is we national pass time - who yuh fooling?

You mentioned your visits to training sessions - have you ever been to the training sessions of other so-called pro club? If you have then you will recognize that there are not too many differences - guys goof around, cuss each other, talk about who fu8king who gul, and how much pints they chug down last night, the difference for the most part is only in perception, and economics.

Oh by the way - please give me your definition of professional.



 

Baygo boy, de last I remember in case you forget, it have ball playing right up de corner - on de nest block - one village over - one street over. If what yuh going to see is not that much better than de small goal yuh playing in front yuh house or in de savanaah (if yuh lucky enough to be livin by one) what pray tell will make you leave your house or area and travel to see other people doing de same thing you was just home doing? de countries pass time not in jepordy here because balll still runnin and this is why it is necessary for de PFL to intice people to come see better ball in a better situation that will inspire every youthman and woman to  raise their own games and better yet go out and support.  So yuh could go back home and try dem things yuh just see in de stadium.

P.S. Saying de PFL is SHIT is harsh language.. Im sure they are trying to some degree... if de standard is up to par is a whole different story.
not compared to La Liga or de EPL but simple to be able to compete in the international arena which is Wims argument.
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Offline weary1969

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2007, 01:47:21 PM »
Just so! Fisherman doh ever say he fish spoil so why shoul Skeene et al say they running a shit league. It eh the best but it is what we have so all who could make it go support WC t/morrow
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Offline Baygo Boy

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2007, 01:48:54 PM »
All yuh fellas jokey yes. All yuh calling for all these improvement  etc, simply because all yuh watching things with a foreign eye. In T&T for as long as there is no paper, there will be no development, and the only way to secure paper is by getting sponsorship, and in order to attract sponsors yuh have to get bodies in the stands, and for as long as Trinis not going to games sponsors will stay away, so if yuh want improvement then call all yuh family back home and inspire them to go to the games. When we start seeing an average of 4,000 fans per game only then will things improve.

I have held many discussions with local players from the 70's and also players today, and the players from the 70's said that the desire to perform came from the environment in the park on game day, the players today on the other hand will tell you that the only motivation in T&T ball today is the $$$. Most of our better players in T&T don't know what it feels like to consistantly play for 3,000-5,000 fans.

Yuh taliking about clubs doh have training ground, or a piece ah land to start one. But I can name countless pro clubs in Britian and even here in the States that don't have one, and can't afford a state of the art facility.

So instead of finding fault, start a campaign to get yuh friends and familiy to come back.

Offline davidephraim

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2007, 01:56:19 PM »
Breds, we went to de WC and there was no sponsorship? 3000 - 5000 in de stands? how much was in Germany? dont even think about after we come back from Germany , think about when we was there... who sponsor?  did de PFL sponsor?  did they use that as an opportunity to get a little name recognition going? a little branding if you will? A little worldwide exposure? De only person dat use it to get name recognition was Count Jackula and he do it for all de wrong reasons but at least he do it.
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Offline Baygo Boy

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2007, 02:04:09 PM »
Ah wonder how much TV/cable have to do with what going on, as it relates to the perception of the type of ball we playing home. Ah mean everybody have access to cable and to SKY, so guys are now watching top level football 24/7, as compared to our days when yuh would only get it on Sundays for ah 2 hours.

Men exposed to top level ball, so we ball seem simple to most, but what men failing to realize is that those top level league have been around for decades. The ignorance is that we expect to see the same level of play in T&T like we see in Europe, but we not recognizing that the type of talent that these top level clubs can affords no way in hell would any T&T club be able to afford them.

So if yuh desire is to see T&T ball look like European ball - wishful thinking. We will never be able to afford a gallas, we can't even afford to bring Stern and other back home, and if even Stern ain't good for England no more - he go end up back in the MLS, because ah paper. Fellas wake up and view the reality, see our league for what it is, and stop comparing it to leagues that we can never be like.

Offline elan

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Re: Romany: No good knocking Pro League.
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2007, 02:07:38 PM »
Quote
Re: Romany: No good knocking Pro League.
« Reply #1 on: Today at 01:09:24 PM »   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaaahhhh......Finally......!!!

It seems like Romany is indeed alive. GREAT!!!!Stand up for yourself and your product man!!!! Let people know that SOMEONE in TNT can voice about football.

BUT.......

What de hell did he just say!!!?? Did he just say that the Pro-league has no clue how to fix it's problems and is inviting Wim to come and show them how? Lawd have mercy!!
And how could he say that "he finds it difficult to believe in an expectation of beating Panama and Costa Rica" Aren't we Digicel Champions runners up? Should we at least be expected to beat Panama?
What Romany do is basically agree with Wim in that the pro-league is crap, that they eh have any idea how to fix it, and then tell Wim is his fault the team is Crap because he did not meet with pro-league officials and coaches. Who supposed to organize these meetings boy, Wim!!?
Disappointing response.

Fellas...we football in ah state.

The man right. If he sincere that is a very good step to take. At least he is not putting himself ina "i-know-it-all" position. I read it as " you (Wim) have more international experience than we do and you are welcome to show us how to go about acheiving the next level." This type of attitude is waht we need, I don't know how to and I am open to assistance. This is the only way we can progress.
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Offline Baygo Boy

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2007, 02:14:23 PM »
Breds, we went to de WC and there was no sponsorship? 3000 - 5000 in de stands? how much was in Germany? dont even think about after we come back from Germany , think about when we was there... who sponsor?  did de PFL sponsor?  did they use that as an opportunity to get a little name recognition going? a little branding if you will? A little worldwide exposure? De only person dat use it to get name recognition was Count Jackula and he do it for all de wrong reasons but at least he do it.

David, exposure to who?  The people that suppose to know about T&T pro league know about it long before the WC - ah referring to European pro clubs. What do you expect to get by plastering the T&T pro league all over the World - what Citibank goh say let we sponsor the T&T pro league, because their 1.5 mil people is a major market for us - give me a break.

Our league is small and will remain small - live with that. Our market will never be able to support a league of European caliber. Our big businesses will always sponsor carnival over football, because carnival is uniquely Trinbagonian.

Branding like you mentioned will only help with tourism, not football - unless we change our league schedule to coinside with our tourist season, then we could talk sports tourism.


Offline davidephraim

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2007, 02:16:09 PM »
Breds, how do we account for de fact dat man in de PFL cya trap and pass de ball? we doh need a Gallas. De USA dont have no Gallas but they could still trap and pass cant they and dem dont even like de sport.
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Offline Baygo Boy

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2007, 02:31:30 PM »
Breds, how do we account for de fact dat man in de PFL cya trap and pass de ball? we doh need a Gallas. De USA dont have no Gallas but they could still trap and pass cant they and dem dont even like de sport.

David, You still expecting top level play from the T&T pro league. David have you ever seen tapes of league matches in Nigeria, Mexican 2nd division, and the USL A-league, for the most part is like watching PFL games, a number of them players can't trap etc.

Yuh see the problem is that you have a birds eye view of T&T ball, so you in a position to make comments, but until you view the scene in other like countries in the world - only then would you see what I am saying, and grasp our PFL.

In places like Nigeria and Camaroon - such a big country, most of the pro league teams have no training grounds that they own, and if they do its no different from some of the fields I played on in T&T.

The PFL is indeed one of the best things to happen to T&T ball.

Offline Trini

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2007, 02:33:23 PM »
Everything allyuh saying here is jus recycled thoughts that have been well known to everybody.

We just have to realise our potential.

We dont have a passionate football culture.

man in T&T prefer to go maracas and gape and drink a stag, or eat a big heavy sunday lunch and sleep, than go out in droves and watch football.

We jus play in a world cup and we struggling to get a stadium half full for international games, yuh think this is coincidence?


Offline slates

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2007, 02:41:58 PM »
The thing about fans, ass in the seats, is that it inspires. Is the whole idea of the 12th man. It says to the players on de field, "we support you," "we're with you". It's why in the international leagues we so passionately patronize, fans travel great distances and go into sometimes hostile environments to support their teams. It is why they sing their hearts out. Because it motivates and inspires. Them players in the PFL need that. Not only the PFL eh, because it was a shame how scantily the national team was supported (except for the finals) in the recently concluded Digicell Cup.

I know it eh no EPL etc., but the PFL is what we have. And if we support it, it will get better. If we don't support, it will not, and as has been stated before, likely, neither will the national team.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2007, 02:45:59 PM by slates »
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Offline Baygo Boy

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2007, 02:50:56 PM »
The thing about fans, ass in the seats, is that it inspires. Is the whole idea of the 12th man. It says to the players on de field, "we support you," "we're with you". It's why in the international leagues we so passionately patronize, fans travel great distances and go into sometimes hostile environments to support their teams. It is why they sing their hearts out. Because it motivates and inspires. Them players in the PFL need that. Not only the PFL eh, because it was a shame how scantily the national team was supported (except for the finals) in the recently concluded Digicell Cup.

I know it eh no EPL etc., but the PFL is what we have. And if we support it, it will get better. If we don't support, it will not, and as has been stated before, likely, neither will the national team.

Exactly

Offline Baygo Boy

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Re: Romany: No good knocking Pro League.
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2007, 03:05:19 PM »
Now all yuh understand why ah doh like Wim - he is a trainer, not a leader - he only putting down - he not fixing. Wim comments are designed to protect his position (ah losing because the players not good). When it should be ah losing because ah don't have what it takes to lead/inspire a Trini posse.
Nakhid was right.  :devil:

Offline UPRISING

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2007, 03:19:09 PM »
If mih pardna Slates say so..is so!   Wha vibes??

Well said breds...the same can be said about college league ... the standard of play ..along with the size of the crowds ..drop since the late 80's.... so there is a definite link between level of play and level of support...  back in the day yuh en missing NONE ah yuh side matches ...now...."ah will go if dey make de final"....madness!

Imagine as schoolboys..we were playing in front of 1-2000 people regular ..doh talk bout when is intercol time!!! 

So we can't complain about what we do not support ....as Coop's say "We are amateur's playing professional's" ..
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Offline KND2

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Re: The Pro League is real Shit
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2007, 03:55:35 PM »
the original discussion was along the line of is Wim justified to bad talk the pro league.

Is the league too Shitty or should we not criticize the league.

I too am a supporter of the PFL but that does not mean I cannot bad talk them.

You ask for a definition of professional.

well this is my definition

somebody who Fosters both attitude and execution in a specific discipline that will excite others to financially compensate them for benefit received from that discipline.



Also
Whether the criticizm is coming from foreign or domestic it makes no difference because our national team plays against foreign teams.
To say people in foreign is just talking in the ass about stuff they do not know is not valid because i the end the national team is going outside of TnT to play. if you only willing to take TnT feedback you will never be prepared.

Pick any MLS team or Mexico team or Costa Rican team, club team and spend a week at their training sessions and then spend a week at a PFL training session and you will see a very big difference.

1) In the motivation level of the players. (PFL obviously does not have the money so they are hamstringed in this department)

2) Approach to preparations

3) level of preparations

4) facilities and resources (cones balls nets etc)

lets take lyndon andrews for example, he has played for W connection, Star world Strikers and now Joe Public, He has been on the national team for over a decade and he has also played in the scottish league.

Do you expect him to say that preparations were the same at Joe Public as they were in Hibs and you know what is the funny thing. @ hibs they was fighting relegation and @ Joe Public they win the league.

How do you think he would describe the approach to the game at each club.

Glasglow used to play for kansas City in Mls now he play for Joe Public what do you think would be his response to the same questions.

It is easy to follow the same time table as a foreign club

Training 8AM
Weights 11 AM
Stretching 2PM
Training 5 PM

but do that same schedule in PFL and MLS and the intensity level is way different.
It cannot be simulated especially if everyone around is at the same level.

It only comes up when you run up into other players from a different level.

Them PFL players run into a different level when they get 4 from costa rica.


The same way how we did hit St Vincent 5 back in october with the Soca Warriors.


Is a different level when you have men who playing in england come back to play against man who playing in the caribbean.

and it has nothing to do with talent

because any player from SVG can go england and fit in given time.

Is just they not acustomed to that level.

the question is how do you take a whole league and introduce it to another level?

 

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