Another black eye for T&TFF.

[Flex]

Another black eye for T&TFF.
By: Lasana Liburd (Express).[/size]

Symposium struggles for moral ground
 
"It is disgraceful that people invited from the (Trinidad and Tobago Football) Federation did not see it fit to be here," said Osmond Downer, president of the Trinidad and Tobago Referees Association.
He was not the only guest to take offence at the lack of a Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) executive level presence at Sunday's Pro League Symposium geared "Towards a National Philosophy for Football in Trinidad and Tobago".
"When we see no hierarchy members of the Federation here," said Vibe CT 105 W Connection owner David J Williams, "it leaves a lot to be desired."
"How can we have a meeting to address a national football philosophy and (expect change) when the Federation is not here listening?" asked Glen Khan, rhetorically.
Dexter Skeene, the Pro League chief executive officer and ex-"Strike Squad" player, did his best to keep the symposium on a positive footing.
He said that T&TFF president Oliver Camps actually "fully endorsed" the Pro League initiative although he asked "to be excused" and did not offer a replacement to present on "The Roles and Functions of the different organisations within (local) football"-a topic chosen on their behalf by the Pro League.
Skeene explained that the relevant highlights of the symposium would be sent to the T&TFF and urged guests to be more mindful of their contribution to the national cause.
"The change has to start from somewhere," said Skeene. "I want us not to be part of the problem but part of the solution."
The fact that Downer accepted a spot on a six member committee entrusted to compile ideas generated from the meeting into a "working paper" indicated an initial victory for the Pro League's positive approach.
There was a flurry of ideas too from the guests as they split into groups to ponder on a road map for the local game. The influence of attitude, mental and physical preparation and youth development featured prominently among their concerns.
Besides, Camps and T&TFF general secretary Richard Groden did not show up but technical director Lincoln"Tiger" Phillips, head coach Wim Rijsbergen and national youth development officer Anton Corneal did.
"I think they were the most important people at this stage," said Skeene.
Phillips and Corneal did their employers proud too with thought provoking presentations on styles of play and the need to revisit lifestyle choices. It was encouraging too that Rijsbergen chose to show up.
His predecessor and Netherlands compatriot, Leo Beenhakker, is considered Trinidad and Tobago's most successful coach after leading the "Soca Warriors" to the 2006 World Cup. But Beenhakker did not assimilate into local culture as well as many would have liked.
If Beenhakker was felt to be privately scornful of local ideas, Rijsbergen appeared openly so by his repeated criticisms of the local Pro League.
Rijsbergen's very presence seemed to suggest an olive branch-right up until he strode to the microphone.
"First, I know a lot of Pro League coaches have had plenty to say to the papers," said Rijsbergen. "Where are these guys?"
It was a fair point. Neal & Massy Caledonia AIA's Jerry Moe and Superstar Rangers' Anthony Streete were the only frontline coaches from the Pro League's 10 teams.
But Rijsbergen, considering that it was a Pro League symposium, had sacrificed tact for a truth of dubious benefit to anyone present.
He went on to speak of the dietary shortcomings of the Pro League players within his national ranks. Less than a third of the squad he took to El Salvador for a friendly international last week, he revealed, would bother to even have breakfast.
Rijsbergen did not state whether the players were subsequently lectured on the importance of nutrition and ordered to the breakfast table-although one assumes they were. Then, he put the cat into the pigeon coop.
"Not one of them was ready physically for international football," he said, with the authority of a man who played in two World Cup finals for Holland.
It took a while for his statement to sink in. Perhaps, the local culture encourages one to be painfully courteous to guests or it is inherent in the Trinidad and Tobago psyche to think the best of our supposedly learned friends. The recriminations began the next day.
"How can he say that the Pro League fitness levels are a joke?" asked one trainer with international experience. "There were Pro League players playing 90 minutes of our qualifying and World Cup games and they clearly lasted 90 minutes against El Salvador too.
"At the least, he should say what he used to measure the players' fitness."
It might be worth noting that a 10-man W Connection team managed two late goals to edge a top Mexican outfit, CD Guadalajara (Chivas), packed with international players at the last CONCACAF Champions Cup.
"I am confident Trinidad and Tobago will not qualify for South Africa 2010 unless he revisits his attitude and approach towards his players and local football in general," said Caledonia AIA chairman Brian Lewis, who also presented at the symposium. "Rijsbergen has publicly bemoaned, criticised and heaped scorn on local footballers, coaches and administrators. What is he doing to address the issues?
"Followers of sport will know that coaches of substance and worth rarely publicly bad mouth their players. No human, animal or plant can thrive in an abusive environment be it verbal or physical."
On November 10, the Pro League committee should complete its review of Sunday's symposium and begin its stated aim--revamping the local game.
Skeene and company hope to have the support of the T&TFF and, from the intelligent discourse of Phillips and Corneal, there is clearly a desire for improvement within the local organising body. But neither the T&TFF executive nor Rijsbergen made best use of the weekend's opportunity to build bridges and erase the growing perception of their misplaced arrogance.

[pecan]

when you have been immersed in an organization all yuh life, it is difficult to take external criticism . is human nature,

But let me quote from Jim Collins book "Good to Great":  "Good is the Enemy of Great"

If we want to great at anything, we have to get rid of "Good", and we have to change past behaviors if said behaviors doh not yield desired results.

[Bakes]

when you have been immersed in an organization all yuh life, it is difficult to take external criticism . is human nature,

Right you are...I really had to shake my head at the following comments, one by Lasana himself

It might be worth noting that a 10-man W Connection team managed two late goals to edge a top Mexican outfit, Pachuca, packed with international players at the last CONCACAF Champions Cup.

Misleading at best...that Pachuca squad may have been packed with "international" players in the sense that they play in Mexico and left their country to play a game in another country...but there were few regulars or starters in the starting line up...everyone knew that.  They underestimated the local squad and paid dearly for it.  What happened when W-Connection met up with the full-strength squad?  Lasana better than dat.

"I am confident Trinidad and Tobago will not qualify for South Africa 2010 unless he revisits his attitude and approach towards his players and local football in general," said Caledonia AIA chairman Brian Lewis, who also presented at the symposium. "Rijsbergen has publicly bemoaned, criticised and heaped scorn on local footballers, coaches and administrators What is he doing to address the issues?
"Followers of sport will know that coaches of substance and worth rarely publicly bad mouth their players. No human, animal or plant can thrive in an abusive environment be it verbal or physical."

What abuse is he talking about??  Some people love to throw around words without thinking of the relative merits of the application of said word.  That is a just critique...if a supposedly professional athlete, aspiring to play on the biggest stage of his sport can't even see it fit to attend to proper diet and nutrition the such criticism is merited.  Change is never easy and sometimes it's even more difficult to accept when suggested by 'outsiders'.

[Sando]

It might be worth noting that a 10-man W Connection team managed two late goals to edge a top Mexican outfit, Pachuca, packed with international players at the last CONCACAF Champions Cup.

I thought W Connection played Chivas and not Pachuca... 

[Dinner Mints]

TT players need butterfly kisses and hugs from somebody who could tell them when to eat. When they break from training, Wim must stand in the window to make sure everybody get in they maxi alright.

[grskywalker]

when you have been immersed in an organization all yuh life, it is difficult to take external criticism . is human nature,

Right you are...I really had to shake my head at the following comments, one by Lasana himself

It might be worth noting that a 10-man W Connection team managed two late goals to edge a top Mexican outfit, Pachuca, packed with international players at the last CONCACAF Champions Cup.

Misleading at best...that Pachuca squad may have been packed with "international" players in the sense that they play in Mexico and left their country to play a game in another country...but there were few regulars or starters in the starting line up...everyone knew that.  They underestimated the local squad and paid dearly for it.  What happened when W-Connection met up with the full-strength squad?  Lasana better than dat.

"I am confident Trinidad and Tobago will not qualify for South Africa 2010 unless he revisits his attitude and approach towards his players and local football in general," said Caledonia AIA chairman Brian Lewis, who also presented at the symposium. "Rijsbergen has publicly bemoaned, criticised and heaped scorn on local footballers, coaches and administrators What is he doing to address the issues?
"Followers of sport will know that coaches of substance and worth rarely publicly bad mouth their players. No human, animal or plant can thrive in an abusive environment be it verbal or physical."

What abuse is he talking about??  Some people love to throw around words without thinking of the relative merits of the application of said word.  That is a just critique...if a supposedly professional athlete, aspiring to play on the biggest stage of his sport can't even see it fit to attend to proper diet and nutrition the such criticism is merited.  Change is never easy and sometimes it's even more difficult to accept when suggested by 'outsiders'.

I agree with you totally Bake, our local game has to remove the wool over they eyes, we lack proper nutrition and physical fitness programmes within the local game. When we do take on international competiton our players look malnourished and tend to play a very lazy game. Off the field nutrition and weight training are vital. Professional football is not only what you are doing on the field but off the field on the training grounds, in the gyms and in the kitchen

[Bakes]

I agree with you totally Bake, our local game has to remove the wool over they eyes, we lack proper nutrition and physical fitness programmes within the local game. When we do take on international competiton our players look malnourished and tend to play a very lazy game. Off the field nutrition and weight training are vital. Professional football is not only what you are doing on the field but off the field on the training grounds, in the gyms and in the kitchen

Man, is funny to me that there is even big debate about it in another thread.  We self here does be complaining about how scrawny we players does look on de field, how they lethargic and getting muscle off ball and thing...but when de man point out the almost guaranteed cause of that man ready tuh pelt big stone at Wim head.


Sando...yuh right about that, even me mihself overlook that, it was Chivas.

[dcs]

TT players need butterfly kisses and hugs from somebody who could tell them when to eat. When they break from training, Wim must stand in the window to make sure everybody get in they maxi alright.

At the symposium they were also talking about the need for psychologists.

But come to think of it....anybody know if players react in the way people like Lewis claim....that their confidence is shot and they become demotivated?  Or is it the coaches themselves who get their ego bruised because to me the problem is mostly with the clubs and not just the players.  If anything the criticism will burn the coaches and club officials more than the players....as far as I know players shouldn't dig no setta horrors if a coach say they diet is nonsense....especially when they damn well know that already.

Lewis should leave the players out of it and say is HE who hurting   

[grskywalker]

TT players need butterfly kisses and hugs from somebody who could tell them when to eat. When they break from training, Wim must stand in the window to make sure everybody get in they maxi alright.

At the symposium they were also talking about the need for psychologists.

But come to think of it....anybody know if players react in the way people like Lewis claim....that their confidence is shot and they become demotivated?  Or is it the coaches themselves who get their ego bruised because to me the problem is mostly with the clubs and not just the players.  If anything the criticism will burn the coaches and club officials more than the players....as far as I know players shouldn't dig no setta horrors if a coach say they diet is nonsense....especially when they damn well know that already.

Lewis should leave the players out of it and say is HE who hurting   

I am sorry but most of our coaches don't know what it takes to prepare a team becasue they have not been exposed to a proper professional league

[weary1969]

Man feelin being hurt what is this I hearing. Look give me a breaaaaakkkkkkkkk pleezeeeeeeeee. Is Wim fault right Fish.

[Storeboy]

After years and years of failures with local and foreign coaches, we still blaming the coaches.  It seems that we will never find the coach that could satisfy the ego of players who think they have arrrived and have nothing to show to prove it.  Beeny led us to the WC and we still blaming Beeny for all kinds of things.  How come when our players go away and make it you don't hear them complainin about caches.  You think Yorke, Calos, and KJ go be complaining about Keane?  Else they would be playing in Div III and never make it to the top.  It is time for us to get rid of the cry baby mentality that destroying us and rise to the high expectations and demands of modern day sports.   There was a time when our football and that of much of the world was part time players.  Do a full days work, go home and change and head to the park forpratse or a game.  Today, to be successful it is your life - Nutrition and Exercise being a main component that each individual player has to take on personally.  Do you see the off season work out programs that NFL and NBA players have.  Guys set goals for weight loss and weight training and hit the gym every day.  It is time for our local coaches, administrators, players and many of the fans on this forum to grow up and stop the complaining about our personal failures.  We need to stop passing it on to someone else and tke full responsibility.

[fishs]

Man feelin being hurt what is this I hearing. Look give me a breaaaaakkkkkkkkk pleezeeeeeeeee. Is Wim fault right Fish.

 Wim stating the obvious but he does not have the umption to fix it, in fact the first observation he made about the Pro League players was how poor their fitness was , what raised the red flag for me was that he did not immdiately say something like " I will get with the clubs and help them develop a fitness regime that will work towards solving the problem" instead he makes his statements and walk away. That to me is contemptuos (almost like you weary1969  )
 He has to work with what he has. Internationally fit players who does eat good food ent going to fly out of his bottom.
The man here for 15 mths and as yet can't make a difference?
As you does say .....steups

[WestCoast]

give de man a break
It is NOT his job to tell clubs what to do
These are Professional Organisations...not ya 5 year old daughters football league.
seriously man give it ah ress
Has previous National Team Managers TOLD the PFL Clubs to do what you ask of Wim.... .......I dont think so as we would be in a better place than we are NOW ...ya get my drift here?

[superoli]

I got to say I dont know of any other national coach who have to tell players and clubs what to do !

Other coaches getting players a week before a game and executing a game plan and training, not having to tell men to eat breakfast

[fishs]

Missing the point completely.
Why would a coach of good international standing stay in a job like this ?
The pro league is substandard, the players are lazy and indisciplined etc.
They are not up to international standard so by definition that means that they will not cut it on the international stage so  to carry that argument further little or no chance of qualifiying for the WC.
The pro league we have is no better than the clubs that used to play in the NFL in the past and the reason why Defence Force used to win everything was because the players were soldiers and had training and diet as a part of the job also the best players would naturally try to get into the Defence Force because they got paid.
This thing we call a proleague is at its infancy stage and most of the clubs cannot because of resources live up to the kind of shit you all talking about.
You guys livinmg outside too long. You think a proleague club have the resources that a high school girls knitting team would have in the states ?
Get fooking real, all of a sudden team like Caledonia going to have gym, private field, sauna, dietician, masseur etc.
If Shabazz didn't love the game he woulda probably make more money in Cepep.
All I'm saying is when this coach criticise he should also provide advice.
He should spend sometime understanding what the root cause of the problem is and use his knowledge and international experience to be the solution.

[Coop's]

give de man a break
It is NOT his job to tell clubs what to do
These are Professional Organisations...not ya 5 year old daughters football league.
seriously man give it ah ress
Has previous National Team Managers TOLD the PFL Clubs to do what you ask of Wim.... .......I dont think so as we would be in a better place than we are NOW ...ya get my drift here?

      West Coast i agree with your statements,i don't think he should have to tell our Coaches what to do but he can recommend that they do certain things,the same thing with Lincoln,Anton etc etc our Coaches are looking for direction,most just don't know,he has to understand this is where his players are coming from.
        I think we have to change the subtitle of our Coaches to managers because they don't realize the responsiblity they have when in charge of a team,it's not only skills and tactics,it's also the treatment of players and that entails a lot of things,when we as Coaches go to do courses have of it is about management,in the mordern game it's very important.
        I think part of Whim's job should be give suggestions/ideas on how to solve some of the problems we have in our Football,i don't feel he personally have to do it,i guess by now people seeing what guys like Gally,Bertille etc etc was not dealing with through no fault of theirs,what our Coaches deal with is only a piece of the puzzle and unless we don't put all the pieces together we will continue to struggle.    

[Trini _2026]

Missing the point completely.
Why would a coach of good international standing stay in a job like this ?

All I'm saying is when this coach criticise he should also provide advice.
He should spend sometime understanding what the root cause of the problem is and use his knowledge and international experience to be the solution.

It just baffles you aye that some one is willing to stick it out and stay around...

How do you know he is not providing advice , eh and even though if he share his knowledge most proleague coaches did not even attend.... plus when leo held open inviations how much of them attended?

[trinikev]

give de man a break
It is NOT his job to tell clubs what to do
These are Professional Organisations...not ya 5 year old daughters football league.
seriously man give it ah ress
Has previous National Team Managers TOLD the PFL Clubs to do what you ask of Wim.... .......I dont think so as we would be in a better place than we are NOW ...ya get my drift here?

      West Coast i agree with your statements,i don't think he should have to tell our Coaches what to do but he can recommend that they do certain things,the same thing with Lincoln,Anton etc etc our Coaches are looking for direction,most just don't know,he has to understand this is where his players are coming from.
        I think we have to change the subtitle of our Coaches to managers because they don't realize the responsiblity they have when in charge of a team,it's not only skills and tactics,it's also the treatment of players and that entails a lot of things,when we as Coaches go to do courses have of it is about management,in the mordern game it's very important.
        I think part of Whim's job should be give suggestions/ideas on how to solve some of the problems we have in our Football,i don't feel he personally have to do it,i guess by now people seeing what guys like Gally,Bertille etc etc was not dealing with through no fault of theirs,what our Coaches deal with is only a piece of the puzzle and unless we don't put all the pieces together we will continue to struggle.    

The thing is how do you, or anyone else on the forum for that matter, know that Wim not giving suggestions to the PFL clubs?....All we have to go by is what is released in the media, we really doh know what going on behind the scenes. This is not to say that he is in fact doing these things, but we cah crucify the man when we doh even have all the information

[dinho]

"It is disgraceful that people invited from the (Trinidad and Tobago Football) Federation did not see it fit to be here," said Osmond Downer, president of the Trinidad and Tobago Referees Association.
He was not the only guest to take offence at the lack of a Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) executive level presence at Sunday's Pro League Symposium geared "Towards a National Philosophy for Football in Trinidad and Tobago".
"When we see no hierarchy members of the Federation here," said Vibe CT 105 W Connection owner David J Williams, "it leaves a lot to be desired."
"How can we have a meeting to address a national football philosophy and (expect change) when the Federation is not here listening?" asked Glen Khan, rhetorically.
Dexter Skeene, the Pro League chief executive officer and ex-"Strike Squad" player, did his best to keep the symposium on a positive footing.
He said that T&TFF president Oliver Camps actually "fully endorsed" the Pro League initiative although he asked "to be excused" and did not offer a replacement to present on "The Roles and Functions of the different organisations within (local) football"-a topic chosen on their behalf by the Pro League.

reading this really begs the question.. exactly what is it camps and groden and these fellahs does do in wuk on a daily basis?? it cant be that these fellahs schedule so hectic that they cant patronize an important forum like this.. unless they intentionally trying to alienate themselves from the initiative. they not organizing no significant friendlies for the team, they not implementing no programs.. they not engaging in publicity ventures..

like dem fat cats just lounging back in dey offices on dundonald st. watching champions league?

"I am confident Trinidad and Tobago will not qualify for South Africa 2010 unless he revisits his attitude and approach towards his players and local football in general," said Caledonia AIA chairman Brian Lewis, who also presented at the symposium. "Rijsbergen has publicly bemoaned, criticised and heaped scorn on local footballers, coaches and administrators. What is he doing to address the issues?
"Followers of sport will know that coaches of substance and worth rarely publicly bad mouth their players. No human, animal or plant can thrive in an abusive environment be it verbal or physical."

while the article echoed some of my sentiments from the other thread, i thought some parts was a lil bit over the top by lasana...

but this one excerpt really hit home for me..

some might find some positive in de man publicly highlighting de deficiencies in the local game.. while it is true that wim might be just be frankly stating the raw and uncolored facts; facts that the local players/coaches/admins not comfortable with hearing dispensed in that kinda tactless manner, i believe it have another side to this whole issue..

as a coach working in a foreign country and environment, i think wim could be more cognizant of the culture if he really genuinely interested in engaging positive interaction with the local institutions with an aim of improving things across the board.. it all about adaptation, a concept any immigrant could tell all about based on their own overseas experiences..  some saying is an inherent dutch trait coming through, and it makes me wonder if guus hiddink had these kinda problems with the south koreans..

the fact is, his current approach to the across-the-board problems not going to solve anything.. if anything, it will just further isolate the same local players, coaches and admins he have to build good relationships with anyway if he want things to improve.. the high-handed stance not holding water here, and i dont see how public berating players and circumstances supposed to contribute to improving anything.. more likely, the local stakeholders in football will continue to interpret his critcisms as a slight rather than a recommendation, and will continue to have problems dealing with wim,  and consequently not want to take on any suggestions he bringing to the table..

tact and diplomacy is a valid criticism of wim, just as it was with beenhakker, and trinis not going to change their ways overnight.. unless he start showing the results to back it up, the disconnect going to get wider and wider..

imo, the quicker he realize that approach not taking us anywhere the better...

[pecan]

but this one excerpt really hit home for me..

some might find some positive in de man publicly highlighting de deficiencies in the local game.. while it is true that wim might be just be frankly stating the raw and uncolored facts; facts that the local players/coaches/admins not comfortable with hearing dispensed in that kinda tactless manner, i believe it have another side to this whole issue..

as a coach working in a foreign country and environment, i think wim could be more cognizant of the culture if he really genuinely interested in engaging positive interaction with the local institutions with an aim of improving things across the board.. it all about adaptation, a concept any immigrant could tell all about based on their own overseas experiences..  some saying is an inherent dutch trait coming through, and it makes me wonder if guus hiddink had these kinda problems with the south koreans..

the fact is, his current approach to the across-the-board problems not going to solve anything.. if anything, it will just further isolate the same local players, coaches and admins he have to build good relationships with anyway if he want things to improve.. the high-handed stance not holding water here, and i dont see how public berating players and circumstances supposed to contribute to improving anything.. more likely, the local stakeholders in football will continue to interpret his critcisms as a slight rather than a recommendation, and will continue to have problems dealing with wim,  and consequently not want to take on any suggestions he bringing to the table..

tact and diplomacy is a valid criticism of wim, just as it was with beenhakker, and trinis not going to change their ways overnight.. unless he start showing the results to back it up, the disconnect going to get wider and wider..

imo, the quicker he realize that approach not taking us anywhere the better...

and therein lies the root of the problem

Perhaps it is the local culture that inhibits a sustainable level of wold class performance rather than inherent skills?

And if foreign coaches/leadership has to adapt to the local customs and not vice-versa, then we will likely remain in a state of mediocrity.  So we may as well dispense with foreign expertise and rely on the local talent.

Like so many organizations that have not had an injection of new blood, any new ideas are met with suspicion or rejection.  This is not unique to T&T football organization so I eh picking on dem.   If we want a coach to tell us what we want to hear, then it sound like Wim is not de man.

And if Wim has to tip-toe around people in case he offends dem, den he should go back home.

[dinho]

but this one excerpt really hit home for me..

some might find some positive in de man publicly highlighting de deficiencies in the local game.. while it is true that wim might be just be frankly stating the raw and uncolored facts; facts that the local players/coaches/admins not comfortable with hearing dispensed in that kinda tactless manner, i believe it have another side to this whole issue..

as a coach working in a foreign country and environment, i think wim could be more cognizant of the culture if he really genuinely interested in engaging positive interaction with the local institutions with an aim of improving things across the board.. it all about adaptation, a concept any immigrant could tell all about based on their own overseas experiences..  some saying is an inherent dutch trait coming through, and it makes me wonder if guus hiddink had these kinda problems with the south koreans..

the fact is, his current approach to the across-the-board problems not going to solve anything.. if anything, it will just further isolate the same local players, coaches and admins he have to build good relationships with anyway if he want things to improve.. the high-handed stance not holding water here, and i dont see how public berating players and circumstances supposed to contribute to improving anything.. more likely, the local stakeholders in football will continue to interpret his critcisms as a slight rather than a recommendation, and will continue to have problems dealing with wim,  and consequently not want to take on any suggestions he bringing to the table..

tact and diplomacy is a valid criticism of wim, just as it was with beenhakker, and trinis not going to change their ways overnight.. unless he start showing the results to back it up, the disconnect going to get wider and wider..

imo, the quicker he realize that approach not taking us anywhere the better...

and therein lies the root of the problem

Perhaps it is the local culture that inhibits a sustainable level of wold class performance rather than inherent skills?

And if foreign coaches/leadership has to adapt to the local customs and not vice-versa, then we will likely remain in a state of mediocrity.  So we may as well dispense with foreign expertise and rely on the local talent.

Like so many organizations that have not had an injection of new blood, any new ideas are met with suspicion or rejection.  This is not unique to T&T football organization so I eh picking on dem.   If we want a coach to tell us what we want to hear, then it sound like Wim is not de man.

And if Wim has to tip-toe around people in case he offends dem, den he should go back home.

ok, but there need to be some give and take..

cultural awareness in any job circumstance is a key success factor.. the onus is not on a whole country's footballing fraternity to adapt to a coach, so much as it is the other way around.. it would have been different if his role put him in charge of every single aspect of local football, much like a new CEO coming into an organization, but it isn't.. as national team manager, his role requires inclusive interaction with the local football institutions..

i am in no way saying that wim's criticism's are misguided or incorrect, but i think he needs to be more constructive in his criticisms.. i glad to hear about what are the problems but i also want to hear what are the solutions..

in the abscence of that, is best we just collectively resign to we fate and stop wasting time and money...

[pecan]

I tink dat any foreign coach go have a hard time ... and without a absolute or clear mandate, politics will forever dominate.

And I agree, there has to be give and take. My way or de highway will not work.

I tink we recognize the need to change .. dat is the first step.  The will to change is de second and I eh so sure we dere yet. 

All in good time ..... how long dat is, I eh know.

[Coop's]

With all the talk that going on here,you know what beats me?if you check the credentials of all those Coaches we have in T&T,they have been on every course,taken every license it have all over the world,some even have the experience of coaching in other countries,i understand why they don't do better than they are doing,the problems we are having can't be all Coach.
It was asked why a world class Coach like Wim sticking around this job,it could be the money,he is being paid well why should he leave.

[FF]

With all the talk that going on here,you know what beats me?if you check the credentials of all those Coaches we have in T&T,they have been on every course,taken every license it have all over the world,some even have the experience of coaching in other countries,i understand why they don't do better than they are doing,the problems we are having can't be all Coach.
It was asked why a world class Coach like Wim sticking around this job,it could be the money,he is being paid well why should he leave.

De true handicap in our sports is the overall unprofessionalism, apathy and malaise that pervades our entire society. We only rouse ourselves for Carnival events.

It is this same syndrome that allows a man like Jack Warner to gather so much power. Simply because he is a hard working man. Simply so.

[Disgruntled_Trini]

"It is disgraceful that people invited from the (Trinidad and Tobago Football) Federation did not see it fit to be here," said Osmond Downer, president of the Trinidad and Tobago Referees Association.

Osmond Downer is a jackarse of the highest order

he always on some board and nobody seems to know who put him there

I hear they close down his school the other day

[Bakes]

Man feelin being hurt what is this I hearing. Look give me a breaaaaakkkkkkkkk pleezeeeeeeeee. Is Wim fault right Fish.

 Wim stating the obvious but he does not have the umption to fix it, in fact the first observation he made about the Pro League players was how poor their fitness was , what raised the red flag for me was that he did not immdiately say something like " I will get with the clubs and help them develop a fitness regime that will work towards solving the problem" instead he makes his statements and walk away. That to me is contemptuos (almost like you weary1969  )
 He has to work with what he has. Internationally fit players who does eat good food ent going to fly out of his bottom.
The man here for 15 mths and as yet can't make a difference?
As you does say .....steups

How the hell is Wim suppose to mandate any sort of cooperation from the Pro League teams??  They were hostile to him from the beginning, a carry over from the Beenhakker administration which they saw as dismissive of them.  He not in the business of holding their hands and telling them how to develop their players...players he has no authority over.  Neither too are they of the mindset to listen to anything he has to say.  Next yuh go fault him fuh not walking on water and casting out demons.

I critical ah Wim but some ah allyuh juss plain delusional with allyuh criticism and expectations.

[Bakes]

Missing the point completely.
Why would a coach of good international standing stay in a job like this ?
The pro league is substandard, the players are lazy and indisciplined etc.
They are not up to international standard so by definition that means that they will not cut it on the international stage so  to carry that argument further little or no chance of qualifiying for the WC.
The pro league we have is no better than the clubs that used to play in the NFL in the past and the reason why Defence Force used to win everything was because the players were soldiers and had training and diet as a part of the job also the best players would naturally try to get into the Defence Force because they got paid.
This thing we call a proleague is at its infancy stage and most of the clubs cannot because of resources live up to the kind of shit you all talking about.
You guys livinmg outside too long. You think a proleague club have the resources that a high school girls knitting team would have in the states ?
Get fooking real, all of a sudden team like Caledonia going to have gym, private field, sauna, dietician, masseur etc.
If Shabazz didn't love the game he woulda probably make more money in Cepep.
All I'm saying is when this coach criticise he should also provide advice.
He should spend sometime understanding what the root cause of the problem is and use his knowledge and international experience to be the solution.

Nonsense.

It would be nice if Wim could also help contribute to the solution...but inability to solve the problem doesn't in itself prevent him from helping identify the cause.  Can you imagine telling ah doctor "doctor, ah know yuh say ah dying...but unless yuh could cure mih I doh want yuh tuh tell mih nutten about how ah dying or why".

Absolute nonsense.

[Bakes]

give de man a break
It is NOT his job to tell clubs what to do
These are Professional Organisations...not ya 5 year old daughters football league.
seriously man give it ah ress
Has previous National Team Managers TOLD the PFL Clubs to do what you ask of Wim.... .......I dont think so as we would be in a better place than we are NOW ...ya get my drift here?

      West Coast i agree with your statements,i don't think he should have to tell our Coaches what to do but he can recommend that they do certain things,the same thing with Lincoln,Anton etc etc our Coaches are looking for direction,most just don't know,he has to understand this is where his players are coming from.
        I think we have to change the subtitle of our Coaches to managers because they don't realize the responsiblity they have when in charge of a team,it's not only skills and tactics,it's also the treatment of players and that entails a lot of things,when we as Coaches go to do courses have of it is about management,in the mordern game it's very important.
        I think part of Whim's job should be give suggestions/ideas on how to solve some of the problems we have in our Football,i don't feel he personally have to do it,i guess by now people seeing what guys like Gally,Bertille etc etc was not dealing with through no fault of theirs,what our Coaches deal with is only a piece of the puzzle and unless we don't put all the pieces together we will continue to struggle.    

I agree with coaches needing to recognize that they are more 'managers' than just coaches...but the critical assumption many seem to be making is that Wim isn't making/ or hasn't made any suggestions behind the scenes.  Part of the reason for the symposium is to have a public forum wherein to help identify and solve the issues afflicting TnT football...as such he has publicly identified some of the issues that need addressing. 

It could come off to many as grandstanding and chest-thumping if he was to say "I personally tried this with this club", or "I suggested this and suggested that", "I think we should do this..." 

The more diplomatic thing would be to sit together and brainstorm collectively, that way any solutions derived can be presented as the sum of a collective effort...not some foreigner coming with he golden tablets ala Moses, to save de poor backwards caribbean folks.  That is precisely how many (some right here on this board) perceived him already.  For all we know such brainstorming sessions might already be in the works...removed from the glare of the media spotlight.  For all we know as well, his hands might be tied...after all look how much interest the TTFF executive has shown in the proceedings thus far.

[Bakes]

The thing is how do you, or anyone else on the forum for that matter, know that Wim not giving suggestions to the PFL clubs?....All we have to go by is what is released in the media, we really doh know what going on behind the scenes. This is not to say that he is in fact doing these things, but we cah crucify the man when we doh even have all the information

Presto!

I said the same thing without even the benefit of having read what you said.

[Bakes]

"It is disgraceful that people invited from the (Trinidad and Tobago Football) Federation did not see it fit to be here," said Osmond Downer, president of the Trinidad and Tobago Referees Association.

Osmond Downer is a jackarse of the highest order

he always on some board and nobody seems to know who put him there

I hear they close down his school the other day

I have more reason than most here to personally dislike Downer...but I actually have to give it to him for this one, he is rightly critical of their absence.