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Offline Flex

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Diving? simply empty the pool.
« on: January 22, 2008, 06:42:19 PM »
Diving? simply empty the pool.
By: Hannibal Najjar.


Blatter: Professional referees are the way forward (part 2)

Diving is a form of deception. Is a yellow card sufficient punishment?[/b]
Obviously diving is cheating. But it's difficult to define diving precisely. Diving is worse than shirt-pulling or tripping.

So red cards for diving?
Yes, because it's cheating, it's betraying the players and the referee. I'm in favour of red cards for diving!

Catching a thief: So you want to catch a thief! A thief that is thieving nothing! A thief, whose thievery has no bearing on anything, nothing whatsoever! Well, let’s talk!
While the rule that exists to marshal players that dive in football (Soccer) is, to dissuade them from their deceit, it is a rule that violates the very act of self-expression and creativity, and one that truly pities the sport. It is a rule, in the end, that is tantamount to achieving nothing, meaningless, as with Ecclesiastic surety! It is a rule that wastes time, distributes blame for a triviality, and punishes an extremely venial sin with the venom of mortality. Let us truly analyze the significance of this rule.

Difficult to define: FIFA has already admitted that, diving is, “difficult to define precisely”. So why is it such a preoccupation in “The Great Game” and an unwritten rule, hidden under the label, “cheating”? It has occupied more attention than any other infringement, foul, or “play”, even more than the “touchy” subject of the written law of, “off-sides”. It has resulted in more conflicts, and more costs to players, coaches, teams, clubs and owners, sponsors and families, than it has produced any good or benefit.
And, what about this! According to FIFA, the “rules help make the referee’s opinion decisive in controversial situations”. So, why then complicate an already “controversial situation” by dividing the referee’s attention, in order to make a decision about, “a hair’s breadth incident” anyway? Let the referee be concerned on seeing and making the foul call, smile with and ignore, the “diving culprit”.

Comparative analyses: Granted, the following sports are about physical contact more than anything, but I have never seen a football player, in American or Canadian football, or an Australian in Rules Football, (also "Aussie Rules" or "footy") whine and play-dive to get a foul called or seek an advantage – the referees simply go about the business of calling an infringement or a foul and the players get up and play, or should I say, work! As, for ice hockey, well, well, you can tell the men from the boys here! On the other hand, every day I witness offensive players in basketball stripped of the ball, or they lose possession in an attacking play. They may decide to play-act so as to draw a foul call, but are simply ignored and most of all, never receive a caution for their faking. Other predominantly non-contact sports, like, field hockey, cricket, and so on, do not solicit any extra attention for plays that may have similar behaviours like “diving”.

The proposition: It is being proposed that there are more reasons why “diving” should be ignored than, there are for policing and bounty-hunting those who do. Is this “crime” so crucial to the game that it has become the major preoccupation of the referee, players, commentators, spectators, coaches, owners, sponsors, etc?
You decide! Keep the following thoughts in your mind, and constantly bounce them back and forth as the topic of “diving” is explored.

1. Central focus: The focus of the referee should be on calling the fouls according to the Laws of the game, not in “dive” detection. In a “dive” there is no foul otherwise it would not so be labeled! So, let the play roll, and the diving players, goodness, let them dive and roll too, he and his team will be the ones that’ll suffer! If there is a foul and the player goes down or falls (not dives) then that should be called by the referee.
But note also, if there is no foul and, there is no legitimate reason for the player to fall or go down, yet he propels himself as if he had been fouled, then, that is a “dive” and the referee simply should let the play go on. If the referee is good enough to see the definitive “dive”, then he should be mature and professional enough to let it go and die a natural death. Some actions in life have natural consequences and others are inflicted; “diving” is clearly one that should be allowed to reap what comes naturally.

2. Delays the game: The players that dive are not the ones delaying the game, but rather, it is the calls of the referee that do. Many years ago a decision was taken by FIFA to speed up the game by reducing interferences that caused unnecessary delays. Referees were put on the offensive to curtail all tactics that slowed the game down, especially those employed to disadvantage the opposition. Today however, FIFA’s “new” rule, aimed at catching the “diving” thief, counteracts that applaudable time-wasting rule.

3. Not psychologists: Today’s “diving” rule is obscure at best and as Blatter states, “it’s difficult to define precisely”, and the logical reason why this is so, is because it is difficult to determine. But, apart from burdening the referee with having to make a very difficult judgment call – deciding between a faked fall (or, “dive”) and, a player falling that has been impeded by contact or by his very attempt to avoid contact, you have now put him in the compromising position of having to stop the game, thereby, debilitating the rhythm altogether. The referee’s undivided attention should truly only be on whether a foul was committed and, not add to it, the determination of a faked dive, one that is already, “difficult to define precisely”.
What FIFA is asking the referee to do is, possess a superb and accurately discerning mind, one of sharply correct and “precise” intuition. The task of marshalling two very competitive troops of eleven players on each team, and eagled eye coaches on the sidelines is a very burdensome and difficult one.
To put “diving” in perspective, it must first be noted that, “diving” calls made by referees, are not 50-50 accurate, not 40-60, not even 30-70, it is a 10-90, or 15-85 at best! Replays show that the referee either, miscalculated what he thought he saw, or prejudged the “diver” for who he is or is known to be. The referee is just not the mind-reader that FIFA bestows on him and he should not have to decipher the true intent of the player that is “diving”, “falling” or, “trying to avoid” possible contact that he has assessed, at that moment, to be threatening to him or other surrounding players.
Referees are not psychologists or even parapsychologists, trained in reading the minds of top-notched, very savvy and intuitive players! Rather, they are trained to observe the 17 Laws of the game, the spirit of each of the games that are being played, and to call infringements and outcomes according to those laws, in the spirit of that ensuing game.

4. Too much and too tiring to adjudicate: The referee should be encouraged to be preoccupied with his job as “facilitator” of the game, just as a principal of a school does with the classes and teachers of his school! He is to ensure that the players, (who, arguably know the rules and laws well enough) are corralled within the confines of the stadium and immediate environs, to enjoy themselves and give of their best competitively for the attainment of their own personal goals, the fans’ enjoyment, coaches’ satisfaction, owners’ expectations, sponsors’ hopes, and families’ wishes.
The referee already has too much to contend with apart from, the tens of thousands of ranting, raving, and fanatical spectators whose ratio is generally made up of some disproportionate percentage depending home game advantage. Sometimes, the percentages might be more equally divided if it is a derby in some city rivalry. The referee also has the world watching his performance via the instant audio-visual television medium, and more so, its replay “eyes”. He also has the assignors’ and assessors’ bodies of FIFA to contend with, scrutinizing his performance and rating him. He has sponsors of teams to contend with. He has his neighbourhood and community opinions to deal with back home.
In addition to these external elements, the referee has to be very fit physically, especially when officiating at the top and elite levels of the game. No other sport demands such fitness and “Johnny-on-the-spot”, accurate presiding! None! Soccer is gruesomely demanding on both player and center official alike! Some calculations reveal that the referee runs more than many players do in the course of a game. As a consequence, early calls in the game may be called incorrectly if the referee doesn’t sufficiently warm and loosen up prior to the start of the game. And an under-prepared referee may be inclined to misjudge a call or simply, miss it altogether as the game ages.
As a matter of fact, given the mega-speed nature of “The Great Game” as it is played today, FIFA should be considering adding another referee so that there is, two-half officiating, with one referee being the “head” official - definitely worth a thought!

5. Game’s and rule’s significance: Every game is often of major significance to the both teams, clubs, spectators, sponsors, the national and international fans, and on the impact on potential supporters and fans on the peripheries (those who are still confused about the game’s purpose and rules). When a player dives, it is of little significance to the actual game and/or its outcome. But, when this unwritten rule is administered, it often has a telling impact in the ensuing game, future games, season’s outcomes, and more; and, with a 10-15% accuracy rating, is it worth the delay and the associated opportunity costs?
Furthermore, it must be remembered that rules generally tend to bring about the tactically opposite effect of what it hopes to achieve. Tell someone not to do something, all you have done is just made them become conscious of it and have whetted their appetite for the adventure. This is especially so, when those “someones” think it is of little value, no purpose, worthless, or irrelevant, for it is then they will seek to toy with it, and especially with males, mock and masquerade, and seek to outfox it.

6. Judge the sinner: Given the freedom and power to interpret as he feels, the referee is liable to fall prey to human error, corruption, and/or favouritism, either by, letting some “players” off the hook, or others, severely penalizing them.
Take for instance, recently, on Sunday December 23rd,2007,  spoilt-child phenom, Christiano Renaldo, the two-goal hero in Manchester United’s 2-1 win over Everton, was seen by the world to be cheating. He came from some distance, pretended to be backpedaling, and kicked the ball away in an attempt to delay the play and take away the opposition’s advantage – that was “cheating”, ‘twas delaying the game and, “ungentlemanly conduct”. The referee and other officials were right there and did not make any call! Or, did they miss the call altogether because of their inundation with “other” crimes?
FIFA should enforce that the referees pay greater attention to these things and observe the times and number of players that deliberately try to steal yards in throw-in and free-kick situations, the latter, whether for distance-advantage or angular betterment - such, are cheating and bothersome to everyone that knows the game.

7. Showing pizzazz: The act of “diving” should not be seen as, “cheating”, and resembling acts such of, “shirt-pulling or tripping”, obstruction, deliberate hand ball, etc, etc. As a matter, it can be left to add some pizzazz to the game, as spectators on the whole, may prefer that players be allowed to add “spice” to the game, hyping up the atmosphere with their persona, style, and creativity. Remember, the evidence of gazillions of so-called dives that are constantly witnessed, continue to depict that less diving occurs than is justified for the attention it receives. Let the players dive, enthrall, and fire up the game. Let the passion show, burn!

8. Go to the polls: Conduct a poll of the players and referees and make the determination thereafter of who would like the rule to remain? Ask the players what they think; do a survey in the top leagues of the world and see if they care if a player dives or not; see if they believe that this rule is worth the attention and time it receives! Ask the officials also and see what they think! Ask the spectators too! Ask your spouse, your children, coworkers, ask their thoughts!

9: Empty the pool: You want to stop the diving, simply, empty the pool, the pool of attention! Yes, let them dive in an empty pool, just once, and see ……!
The real measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.

Offline E-man

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2008, 07:01:43 PM »

9: Empty the pool: You want to stop the diving, simply, empty the pool, the pool of attention! Yes, let them dive in an empty pool, just once, and see ……!


Same way you stop a child from throwing tantrums. Ignore them.
I agree, let them writhe on the ground and keep the game running - see what happens when they start to miss out on the action because they're too busy acting. I'm sure the coach will be pleased.


Offline weary1969

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2008, 10:32:40 PM »
Parenting 101 by Eman
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Offline dcs

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2008, 10:36:55 PM »
Ignoring it will most definitely NOT work.  If they fool you 1 out of 10 times and get a penalty then he will continue to attempt it....especially when somebody like Ferguson go and argue afterward it was a foul blah blah blah.

Anybody playacting in the box trying to get a penalty should get a straight red same way defenders get a straight red if they are the last ones.  Matter of fact some of them same defenders would have gotten a red if the THIEF managed to fool the ref...so he should suffer the same consequence.

I done find they is be ignoring the diver most of the time now anyway and it clearly not working.  When #7 dive send him off.  And I eh have no problem whatsoever if somebody get send off because their bad reputation bias the ref in a close call...too bad...dais for all the ones u get away with...go work on your reputation u blasted ole dutty stinken nasty scum of the earth thief.   :devil:

Offline E-man

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2008, 01:31:55 AM »
Diving is one of the elements that keeps the sport from grabbing the imagination of the American spectator and gets it the 'pussy sport' label here in the US. How can you call yourself a man? - see comparative analysis above


Offline Blue

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2008, 02:08:26 AM »
i might get beat down for saying this, but i hope diving isnt further penalised. Its a skill and it makes the game more interesting. the diver knows that the reward could be a free kick/penalty but he also runs the risk of collecting a yellow card.

Offline superoli

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2008, 06:43:40 AM »
I believe they should review with footage after the game and if no contact then ban them for a game.
You will see how quick players will stop it
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Offline ttcom

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2008, 07:39:38 AM »

9: Empty the pool: You want to stop the diving, simply, empty the pool, the pool of attention! Yes, let them dive in an empty pool, just once, and see ……!


Same way you stop a child from throwing tantrums. Ignore them.
I agree, let them writhe on the ground and keep the game running - see what happens when they start to miss out on the action because they're too busy acting. I'm sure the coach will be pleased.



Eman how many kids you have? That might work in a Utopia world but not in this one. Simply have a panel review games and then fine the player for unsportsmanlike conduct.(FIFA did it with Materazzi) after the fact.
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Offline Big Magician

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2008, 07:42:08 AM »
ah pulling ah dive in de sweat Saturday....tell Philbert Jones to dive please
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Offline Daft Trini

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2008, 07:58:38 AM »
ah pulling ah dive in de sweat Saturday....tell Philbert Jones to dive please

Philbert drink some scotch and Point coconut water that day...

Offline Fyzoman

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2008, 08:30:56 AM »
I believe they should review with footage after the game and if no contact then ban them for a game.
You will see how quick players will stop it

i wid yuh on dis breds, but somehow ah feel dis is too simple ah solution to see de light ah day....men should also get card for requesting de refs give other men card....men who get foul and act as if dey get shot or roll as if dey rolling down a hill should have to stay off de field for at least 10/15 minutes. philbert must be does get vex, vex when he see these Greg Louganis of today doing dey business.
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Offline elan

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2008, 12:49:19 PM »
Why is diving not an important topic warranting FIFA's attention? Diving is relative to the off side in a player "attempting to gain an unfair advantage." This may not gain the imagination of the Americans because quite simply they have none. They quote football. How about when they winning and little time on the clock, what they do? They "down the Ball" until the time runs out. You have to be kidding. A 1:40 seconds is a lot of time to play.
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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2008, 01:06:11 PM »
Diving is one of the elements that keeps the sport from grabbing the imagination of the American spectator and gets it the 'pussy sport' label here in the US. How can you call yourself a man? - see comparative analysis above



Oh please, Americans have there own version of diving in their very popular sport BASKETBALL! What do you think players are doing when they feel a little OR NO contact and hit the floor? FLOPPING AKA DIVING! Americans do like the sport because it was not invented in AMERICA! 

Offline pardners

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2008, 02:54:33 PM »
Diving is one of the elements that keeps the sport from grabbing the imagination of the American spectator and gets it the 'pussy sport' label here in the US. How can you call yourself a man? - see comparative analysis above



The Aussies and other Europeans label American Football as a pussy sport.  They say the Americans trying to play rugby, but they all dressed up with a set of body amour, padding and helmet to protect they tender skin.  Come on man, take yuh hit like a real man...lose a couple teeth in the process mates.
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giggsy11

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2008, 06:42:57 PM »
Diving is one of the elements that keeps the sport from grabbing the imagination of the American spectator and gets it the 'pussy sport' label here in the US. How can you call yourself a man? - see comparative analysis above



Oh please, Americans have there own version of diving in their very popular sport BASKETBALL! What do you think players are doing when they feel a little OR NO contact and hit the floor? FLOPPING AKA DIVING! Americans do like the sport because it was not invented in AMERICA! 

I ment to say DON'T like the sport because it was not invented in America.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2008, 07:21:28 PM »
This may not gain the imagination of the Americans because quite simply they have none. They quote football. How about when they winning and little time on the clock, what they do? They "down the Ball" until the time runs out. You have to be kidding. A 1:40 seconds is a lot of time to play.

This is ignorant on several levels...

Offline RedDevils

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2008, 08:39:58 PM »
Diving is one of the elements that keeps the sport from grabbing the imagination of the American spectator and gets it the 'pussy sport' label here in the US. How can you call yourself a man? - see comparative analysis above








you is ah special kinda stupid if you believe de shit u type.
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Offline elan

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2008, 08:52:49 PM »
This may not gain the imagination of the Americans because quite simply they have none. They quote football. How about when they winning and little time on the clock, what they do? They "down the Ball" until the time runs out. You have to be kidding. A 1:40 seconds is a lot of time to play.

This is ignorant on several levels...

Bakes you could say what you want cause you will always defend the USA. It okay to say that diving is one of the reasons that football has not captured the imaginations of the Americans. How is that not ignorant? 
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Offline Daft Trini

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2008, 09:16:32 PM »
Football (soccer) has not captured the American audience and this is an office survey here are some reasons people gave me:-

1) Too many Rednecks love this game
2) Not as physical as soccer
3) Short attention span, soccer is a continuos sport for 45mins x 2.
4) Not enough scores and sometimes there are no winners.
5) Football is a tradition that you have grown up in...most people are intoduced to soccer here at a late age.
6) Football is an American thing, and this separates them from the rest of the world.
7) It's a sport when you can be a total knuckle head and still play.
 some of the other reasons were too stupid to write about...

However football here will never be "O jogo Lindo"

Offline Bakes

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2008, 01:04:28 AM »

Bakes you could say what you want cause you will always defend the USA. It okay to say that diving is one of the reasons that football has not captured the imaginations of the Americans. How is that not ignorant? 

...and tell me, pray do...how 'defending' the USA benefits Bake n Shark?  Even if I were to concede for argument's sake that "diving is one of the reasons that football has not captured the imaginations of the Americans" is an ignorant statement...is your solution to one ignorant statement, to spout an equally, if not more ignorant statement?  The fact is that many Americans haven't taken to the game because it's so foreign to them.  It's for the same reasons that Lacrosse and field hockey haven't enjoyed more than niche support in the US.  From what I know, some Americans are turned off from football b/c to them there isn't enough scoring...and yes, some find the diving and play acting a turn off.  The fact remains that millions of Americans do in fact love the sport...yet you write them off as lacking imagination simply because a sliver of other Americans don't like football for a very narrow reason.  Had Jamaicans said something similar about Trinis the thread would have been in an uproar.

You then compound the ignorance by displaying your own ignorance relative to American football.  The reasons why teams "down the ball" is to play smart.  No different from when in football (soccer) a team with the lead late in the game will pass the ball around without making any real offensive effort...or worse yet, drop 11 men in the box and kick everything long.  Why?? because they playing it safe, no need to expose yuhself and let the other team score a goal...especially if they only trailing by one.  Is that "unimaginative" or is that smart football?

Everytime you run a play in American football you risk a turnover.  Late in the game you reduce the risk of a turnover and you hasten the end of the game (taking a knee keeps the clock running whereas an incomplete pass stops it) by simply having one person handle the ball and take a knee.  Not really that difficult to understand.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2008, 01:05:55 AM »
Football (soccer) has not captured the American audience and this is an office survey here are some reasons people gave me:-

1) Too many Rednecks love this game
2) Not as physical as soccer
3) Short attention span, soccer is a continuos sport for 45mins x 2.
4) Not enough scores and sometimes there are no winners.
5) Football is a tradition that you have grown up in...most people are intoduced to soccer here at a late age.
6) Football is an American thing, and this separates them from the rest of the world.
7) It's a sport when you can be a total knuckle head and still play.
 some of the other reasons were too stupid to write about...

However football here will never be "O jogo Lindo"

Bonito??  ;)

Offline kicker

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2008, 12:17:14 PM »


...and tell me, pray do...how 'defending' the USA benefits Bake n Shark?  Even if I were to concede for argument's sake that "diving is one of the reasons that football has not captured the imaginations of the Americans" is an ignorant statement...is your solution to one ignorant statement, to spout an equally, if not more ignorant statement?  The fact is that many Americans haven't taken to the game because it's so foreign to them.  It's for the same reasons that Lacrosse and field hockey haven't enjoyed more than niche support in the US.  From what I know, some Americans are turned off from football b/c to them there isn't enough scoring...and yes, some find the diving and play acting a turn off.  The fact remains that millions of Americans do in fact love the sport...yet you write them off as lacking imagination simply because a sliver of other Americans don't like football for a very narrow reason.  Had Jamaicans said something similar about Trinis the thread would have been in an uproar.

You then compound the ignorance by displaying your own ignorance relative to American football.  The reasons why teams "down the ball" is to play smart.  No different from when in football (soccer) a team with the lead late in the game will pass the ball around without making any real offensive effort...or worse yet, drop 11 men in the box and kick everything long.  Why?? because they playing it safe, no need to expose yuhself and let the other team score a goal...especially if they only trailing by one.  Is that "unimaginative" or is that smart football?

Everytime you run a play in American football you risk a turnover.  Late in the game you reduce the risk of a turnover and you hasten the end of the game (taking a knee keeps the clock running whereas an incomplete pass stops it) by simply having one person handle the ball and take a knee.  Not really that difficult to understand.

Boss yuh have real energy & patience. That statement about downing the ball and its association with the lack of imagination required a step back to the rudiments of the game (accompanied by some common sense) that I didn't figure anyone would take the time to take....

Football (soccer) has not captured the American audience and this is an office survey here are some reasons people gave me:-

1) Too many Rednecks love this game Which game? Football or soccer? I assume you mean Football - if so are they saying that soccer has not captured the American audience because too many rednecks love football? I must be missing something because that fails to make sense

2) Not as physical as soccer - That's debatable

3) Short attention span, soccer is a continuos sport for 45mins x 2.

4) Not enough scores and sometimes there are no winners.

5) Football is a tradition that you have grown up in...most people are intoduced to soccer here at a late age. Not sure if I agree with this one- soccer is actually generally considered a children's game in the U.S.

6) Football is an American thing, and this separates them from the rest of the world.

7) It's a sport when you can be a total knuckle head and still play. Outside of the U.S., I think soccer is the game of "knuckleheads". Don't think there's much if any correlation between football (soccer) smarts and intellect.

 some of the other reasons were too stupid to write about...Those might actually be the more entertaining ones...please share  ;D

However football here will never be "O jogo Lindo"

Not sure if yuh work colleagues hit the nail on the head, but it's interesting to hear the perspectives nevertheless.
Live life 90 minutes at a time....Football is life.......

Offline ribbit

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2008, 01:15:07 PM »
Diving is one of the elements that keeps the sport from grabbing the imagination of the American spectator and gets it the 'pussy sport' label here in the US. How can you call yourself a man? - see comparative analysis above



Oh please, Americans have there own version of diving in their very popular sport BASKETBALL! What do you think players are doing when they feel a little OR NO contact and hit the floor? FLOPPING AKA DIVING! Americans do like the sport because it was not invented in AMERICA! 

I ment to say DON'T like the sport because it was not invented in America.

i think e-man's explanation deserves some attention. even the best floppers in basketball cyah get more than a few points a game but a good diver in football can win a match. the rewards of diving in football is significantly higher than in basketball.

when a sport like football, that considers itself serious, have man acting like professional wrestlers selling a move, then that professed seriousness must come into question.

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2008, 02:52:28 PM »
Football (soccer) has not captured the American audience and this is an office survey here are some reasons people gave me:-

1) Too many Rednecks love this game
2) Not as physical as soccer
3) Short attention span, soccer is a continuos sport for 45mins x 2.
4) Not enough scores and sometimes there are no winners.
5) Football is a tradition that you have grown up in...most people are intoduced to soccer here at a late age.
6) Football is an American thing, and this separates them from the rest of the world.
7) It's a sport when you can be a total knuckle head and still play.
 some of the other reasons were too stupid to write about...

However football here will never be "O jogo Lindo"

Bonito??  ;)

"O Jogo Bonito" loosely translates to the beautiful game. (often used by Brazilians and Pele to describe football)

"O jogo lindo" loosely translates to the pretty game. The actual phrase used by the Brazilian media in the 1970's world cup headlines before the finals..... ;D

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2008, 03:00:54 PM »


...and tell me, pray do...how 'defending' the USA benefits Bake n Shark?  Even if I were to concede for argument's sake that "diving is one of the reasons that football has not captured the imaginations of the Americans" is an ignorant statement...is your solution to one ignorant statement, to spout an equally, if not more ignorant statement?  The fact is that many Americans haven't taken to the game because it's so foreign to them.  It's for the same reasons that Lacrosse and field hockey haven't enjoyed more than niche support in the US.  From what I know, some Americans are turned off from football b/c to them there isn't enough scoring...and yes, some find the diving and play acting a turn off.  The fact remains that millions of Americans do in fact love the sport...yet you write them off as lacking imagination simply because a sliver of other Americans don't like football for a very narrow reason.  Had Jamaicans said something similar about Trinis the thread would have been in an uproar.

You then compound the ignorance by displaying your own ignorance relative to American football.  The reasons why teams "down the ball" is to play smart.  No different from when in football (soccer) a team with the lead late in the game will pass the ball around without making any real offensive effort...or worse yet, drop 11 men in the box and kick everything long.  Why?? because they playing it safe, no need to expose yuhself and let the other team score a goal...especially if they only trailing by one.  Is that "unimaginative" or is that smart football?

Everytime you run a play in American football you risk a turnover.  Late in the game you reduce the risk of a turnover and you hasten the end of the game (taking a knee keeps the clock running whereas an incomplete pass stops it) by simply having one person handle the ball and take a knee.  Not really that difficult to understand.

Boss yuh have real energy & patience. That statement about downing the ball and its association with the lack of imagination required a step back to the rudiments of the game (accompanied by some common sense) that I didn't figure anyone would take the time to take....

Football (soccer) has not captured the American audience and this is an office survey here are some reasons people gave me:-

1) Too many Rednecks love this game Which game? Football or soccer? I assume you mean Football - if so are they saying that soccer has not captured the American audience because too many rednecks love football? I must be missing something because that fails to make sense

2) Not as physical as soccer - That's debatable

3) Short attention span, soccer is a continuos sport for 45mins x 2.

4) Not enough scores and sometimes there are no winners.

5) Football is a tradition that you have grown up in...most people are intoduced to soccer here at a late age. Not sure if I agree with this one- soccer is actually generally considered a children's game in the U.S.

6) Football is an American thing, and this separates them from the rest of the world.

7) It's a sport when you can be a total knuckle head and still play. Outside of the U.S., I think soccer is the game of "knuckleheads". Don't think there's much if any correlation between football (soccer) smarts and intellect.

 some of the other reasons were too stupid to write about...Those might actually be the more entertaining ones...please share  ;D

However football here will never be "O jogo Lindo"

Not sure if yuh work colleagues hit the nail on the head, but it's interesting to hear the perspectives nevertheless.

I was typing as they told me....

1)I meant football was much more physical than soccer... (that's my only correction)

Most of these guys are from Texas, Arizona, kentucky, Minn and Wisc and Kansas so they are asses and biased... but all in good humour. It seems to be more of a religion than a redneck thing to them... but to each his own. You see dem Euro Rednecks does support Madrid too (I see dem confederate flags in de stadium) hahaha  ;D

I like American football, a pretty good half back or safety when we play.... here at Discovery and no body could kick and punt like I do... ;D

But it's just not as entertaining for them as FOOTBALL.... I mean they even follow High school and College. To be honest I have no clue why Americans love the sports they like, Like Baseball and Nascar.... or why dey love Football and not soccer but... who  knows. I live in Columbia, MD and the in sport here is Golf so things could change... :-)

Offline elan

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2008, 03:49:25 PM »

Bakes you could say what you want cause you will always defend the USA. It okay to say that diving is one of the reasons that football has not captured the imaginations of the Americans. How is that not ignorant? 

...and tell me, pray do...how 'defending' the USA benefits Bake n Shark? Even if I were to concede for argument's sake that "diving is one of the reasons that football has not captured the imaginations of the Americans" is an ignorant statement...is your solution to one ignorant statement, to spout an equally, if not more ignorant statement? The fact is that many Americans haven't taken to the game because it's so foreign to them. It's for the same reasons that Lacrosse and field hockey haven't enjoyed more than niche support in the US. From what I know, some Americans are turned off from football b/c to them there isn't enough scoring...and yes, some find the diving and play acting a turn off. The fact remains that millions of Americans do in fact love the sport...yet you write them off as lacking imagination simply because a sliver of other Americans don't like football for a very narrow reason. Had Jamaicans said something similar about Trinis the thread would have been in an uproar.

You then compound the ignorance by displaying your own ignorance relative to American football. The reasons why teams "down the ball" is to play smart. No different from when in football (soccer) a team with the lead late in the game will pass the ball around without making any real offensive effort...or worse yet, drop 11 men in the box and kick everything long. Why?? because they playing it safe, no need to expose yuhself and let the other team score a goal...especially if they only trailing by one. Is that "unimaginative" or is that smart football?

Everytime you run a play in American football you risk a turnover. Late in the game you reduce the risk of a turnover and you hasten the end of the game (taking a knee keeps the clock running whereas an incomplete pass stops it) by simply having one person handle the ball and take a knee. Not really that difficult to understand.

Bakes that's the stand point I am addressing the satement from, an ignorant one. See I don't have a true need to defend soccer to ppl who do not understand it and dismiss it as boring.





...and tell me, pray do...how 'defending' the USA benefits Bake n Shark?  Even if I were to concede for argument's sake that "diving is one of the reasons that football has not captured the imaginations of the Americans" is an ignorant statement...is your solution to one ignorant statement, to spout an equally, if not more ignorant statement?  The fact is that many Americans haven't taken to the game because it's so foreign to them.  It's for the same reasons that Lacrosse and field hockey haven't enjoyed more than niche support in the US.  From what I know, some Americans are turned off from football b/c to them there isn't enough scoring...and yes, some find the diving and play acting a turn off.  The fact remains that millions of Americans do in fact love the sport...yet you write them off as lacking imagination simply because a sliver of other Americans don't like football for a very narrow reason.  Had Jamaicans said something similar about Trinis the thread would have been in an uproar.

You then compound the ignorance by displaying your own ignorance relative to American football.  The reasons why teams "down the ball" is to play smart.  No different from when in football (soccer) a team with the lead late in the game will pass the ball around without making any real offensive effort...or worse yet, drop 11 men in the box and kick everything long.  Why?? because they playing it safe, no need to expose yuhself and let the other team score a goal...especially if they only trailing by one.  Is that "unimaginative" or is that smart football?

Everytime you run a play in American football you risk a turnover.  Late in the game you reduce the risk of a turnover and you hasten the end of the game (taking a knee keeps the clock running whereas an incomplete pass stops it) by simply having one person handle the ball and take a knee.  Not really that difficult to understand.

Boss yuh have real energy & patience. That statement about downing the ball and its association with the lack of imagination required a step back to the rudiments of the game (accompanied by some common sense) that I didn't figure anyone would take the time to take....
Football (soccer) has not captured the American audience and this is an office survey here are some reasons people gave me:-

1) Too many Rednecks love this game Which game? Football or soccer? I assume you mean Football - if so are they saying that soccer has not captured the American audience because too many rednecks love football? I must be missing something because that fails to make sense

2) Not as physical as soccer - That's debatable

3) Short attention span, soccer is a continuos sport for 45mins x 2.

4) Not enough scores and sometimes there are no winners.

5) Football is a tradition that you have grown up in...most people are intoduced to soccer here at a late age. Not sure if I agree with this one- soccer is actually generally considered a children's game in the U.S.

6) Football is an American thing, and this separates them from the rest of the world.

7) It's a sport when you can be a total knuckle head and still play. Outside of the U.S., I think soccer is the game of "knuckleheads". Don't think there's much if any correlation between football (soccer) smarts and intellect.

 some of the other reasons were too stupid to write about...Those might actually be the more entertaining ones...please share  ;D

However football here will never be "O jogo Lindo"

Not sure if yuh work colleagues hit the nail on the head, but it's interesting to hear the perspectives nevertheless.

I was typing as they told me....

1)I meant football was much more physical than soccer... (that's my only correction)

Most of these guys are from Texas, Arizona, kentucky, Minn and Wisc and Kansas so they are asses and biased... but all in good humour. It seems to be more of a religion than a redneck thing to them... but to each his own. You see dem Euro Rednecks does support Madrid too (I see dem confederate flags in de stadium) hahaha ;D

I like American football, a pretty good half back or safety when we play.... here at Discovery and no body could kick and punt like I do... ;D

But it's just not as entertaining for them as FOOTBALL.... I mean they even follow High school and College. To be honest I have no clue why Americans love the sports they like, Like Baseball and Nascar.... or why dey love Football and not soccer but... who knows. I live in Columbia, MD and the in sport here is Golf so things could change... :-)

See Kicker exactly my point. When you don't understand certain aspects of a game (like downing the ball) it will look stupid, boring and useless.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

Offline Daft Trini

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2008, 03:54:53 PM »

Bakes you could say what you want cause you will always defend the USA. It okay to say that diving is one of the reasons that football has not captured the imaginations of the Americans. How is that not ignorant? 

...and tell me, pray do...how 'defending' the USA benefits Bake n Shark? Even if I were to concede for argument's sake that "diving is one of the reasons that football has not captured the imaginations of the Americans" is an ignorant statement...is your solution to one ignorant statement, to spout an equally, if not more ignorant statement? The fact is that many Americans haven't taken to the game because it's so foreign to them. It's for the same reasons that Lacrosse and field hockey haven't enjoyed more than niche support in the US. From what I know, some Americans are turned off from football b/c to them there isn't enough scoring...and yes, some find the diving and play acting a turn off. The fact remains that millions of Americans do in fact love the sport...yet you write them off as lacking imagination simply because a sliver of other Americans don't like football for a very narrow reason. Had Jamaicans said something similar about Trinis the thread would have been in an uproar.

You then compound the ignorance by displaying your own ignorance relative to American football. The reasons why teams "down the ball" is to play smart. No different from when in football (soccer) a team with the lead late in the game will pass the ball around without making any real offensive effort...or worse yet, drop 11 men in the box and kick everything long. Why?? because they playing it safe, no need to expose yuhself and let the other team score a goal...especially if they only trailing by one. Is that "unimaginative" or is that smart football?

Everytime you run a play in American football you risk a turnover. Late in the game you reduce the risk of a turnover and you hasten the end of the game (taking a knee keeps the clock running whereas an incomplete pass stops it) by simply having one person handle the ball and take a knee. Not really that difficult to understand.

Bakes that's the stand point I am addressing the satement from, an ignorant one. See I don't have a true need to defend soccer to ppl who do not understand it and dismiss it as boring.





...and tell me, pray do...how 'defending' the USA benefits Bake n Shark?  Even if I were to concede for argument's sake that "diving is one of the reasons that football has not captured the imaginations of the Americans" is an ignorant statement...is your solution to one ignorant statement, to spout an equally, if not more ignorant statement?  The fact is that many Americans haven't taken to the game because it's so foreign to them.  It's for the same reasons that Lacrosse and field hockey haven't enjoyed more than niche support in the US.  From what I know, some Americans are turned off from football b/c to them there isn't enough scoring...and yes, some find the diving and play acting a turn off.  The fact remains that millions of Americans do in fact love the sport...yet you write them off as lacking imagination simply because a sliver of other Americans don't like football for a very narrow reason.  Had Jamaicans said something similar about Trinis the thread would have been in an uproar.

You then compound the ignorance by displaying your own ignorance relative to American football.  The reasons why teams "down the ball" is to play smart.  No different from when in football (soccer) a team with the lead late in the game will pass the ball around without making any real offensive effort...or worse yet, drop 11 men in the box and kick everything long.  Why?? because they playing it safe, no need to expose yuhself and let the other team score a goal...especially if they only trailing by one.  Is that "unimaginative" or is that smart football?

Everytime you run a play in American football you risk a turnover.  Late in the game you reduce the risk of a turnover and you hasten the end of the game (taking a knee keeps the clock running whereas an incomplete pass stops it) by simply having one person handle the ball and take a knee.  Not really that difficult to understand.

Boss yuh have real energy & patience. That statement about downing the ball and its association with the lack of imagination required a step back to the rudiments of the game (accompanied by some common sense) that I didn't figure anyone would take the time to take....
Football (soccer) has not captured the American audience and this is an office survey here are some reasons people gave me:-

1) Too many Rednecks love this game Which game? Football or soccer? I assume you mean Football - if so are they saying that soccer has not captured the American audience because too many rednecks love football? I must be missing something because that fails to make sense

2) Not as physical as soccer - That's debatable

3) Short attention span, soccer is a continuos sport for 45mins x 2.

4) Not enough scores and sometimes there are no winners.

5) Football is a tradition that you have grown up in...most people are intoduced to soccer here at a late age. Not sure if I agree with this one- soccer is actually generally considered a children's game in the U.S.

6) Football is an American thing, and this separates them from the rest of the world.

7) It's a sport when you can be a total knuckle head and still play. Outside of the U.S., I think soccer is the game of "knuckleheads". Don't think there's much if any correlation between football (soccer) smarts and intellect.

 some of the other reasons were too stupid to write about...Those might actually be the more entertaining ones...please share  ;D

However football here will never be "O jogo Lindo"

Not sure if yuh work colleagues hit the nail on the head, but it's interesting to hear the perspectives nevertheless.

I was typing as they told me....

1)I meant football was much more physical than soccer... (that's my only correction)

Most of these guys are from Texas, Arizona, kentucky, Minn and Wisc and Kansas so they are asses and biased... but all in good humour. It seems to be more of a religion than a redneck thing to them... but to each his own. You see dem Euro Rednecks does support Madrid too (I see dem confederate flags in de stadium) hahaha ;D

I like American football, a pretty good half back or safety when we play.... here at Discovery and no body could kick and punt like I do... ;D

But it's just not as entertaining for them as FOOTBALL.... I mean they even follow High school and College. To be honest I have no clue why Americans love the sports they like, Like Baseball and Nascar.... or why dey love Football and not soccer but... who knows. I live in Columbia, MD and the in sport here is Golf so things could change... :-)

See Kicker exactly my point. When you don't understand certain aspects of a game (like downing the ball) it will look stupid, boring and useless.

Elan I agree with downing the ball, you see I agree that you have to manage the clock carefully and know how many time outs your team has, force them to run or pass the ball as the clock is winding down, pray for a turn over etc... you know the drill.... However I feel downing the football is the biggest and best insult you could deliver to the opposing team, because it's like "Biotch you just got fu@ked and there is nothing you can do about it  ;D

Offline dinho

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2008, 04:00:16 PM »
in football a player can take the ball by the corner flag and shield it to kill some time off the clock... or the coach can bring on late subs.. or the goalie can take his time with the kicks..

but........

there is still the chance that the opposition can retrieve the ball and score the equalizer..

in american football, once they kneel and down the ball, the game is prematurely ended and the clock is just left to run down. they actually exchange handshakes while the clock still running..

from an objective standpoint, that real shitty and would probably be outlawed in other sports.. but as one who understands the game of american football, its pretty much accepted as part and parcel of the game..
         

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2008, 04:04:41 PM »
so how are they to get rid of the play clock, which is what the team in control of the ball is taking advantage of to ensure their victory.
every team has a set amount of time because the nature of the game of american football.

What I dont get is that the quarterback can spike the ball within the last 2.00 mins, but if he did that at any other time of the game it is a penalty?

ADDENDUM: obviously I am distracted as it is a strategy play
see answer here
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070826180311AAQizuZ
« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 04:09:23 PM by WestCoast »
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Offline Daft Trini

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Re: Diving? simply empty the pool.
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2008, 04:05:09 PM »
in football a player can take the ball by the corner flag and shield it to kill some time off the clock... or the coach can bring on late subs.. or the goalie can take his time with the kicks..

but........

there is still the chance that the opposition can retrieve the ball and score the equalizer..

in american football, once they kneel and down the ball, the game is prematurely ended and the clock is just left to run down. they actually exchange handshakes while the clock still running..

from an objective standpoint, that real shitty and would probably be outlawed in other sports.. but as one who understands the game of american football, its pretty much accepted as part and parcel of the game..

agreed omar... that's the way de crix does crumble sometimes
like the way yuh does break Trinba's cyphers.... ;D too...

 

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