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Offline Die_Hard

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Defending higher up the pitch
« on: April 18, 2011, 12:43:16 PM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thefootballtacticsblog/2011/04/was_toures_intervention_a_tell.html



Defending higher up the pitch is not a new concept by any means but it has become more notable recently because of the way Pep Guardiola's Barcelona side has employed the tactic so effectively.

England boss Fabio Capello adopted a similar ploy in the recent Euro 2012 qualifying victory over Wales after making his players watch videos of the La Liga champions.

And in a season where his team has been criticised for being too passive, Manchester City manager Roberto Mancini used the tactic to great effect as his side recorded a surprise FA Cup semi-final win over Manchester United on Saturday.
 


The winning goal, superbly taken by City's Yaya Toure, was a case in point. The Ivorian intercepted Michael Carrick's pass outside the box before rounding Nemanja Vidic and slotting the ball past Edwin van der Sar on 52 minutes.

Carrick has been roundly condemned for his ill-judged pass in the build-up to the goal but credit should also go to man-of-the-match Toure, who nipped in to pinch the ball before it reached Paul Scholes.

Former Barcelona midfielder Toure had grown frustrated with a lack of appearances under Guardiola but he spearheaded City's five-man midfield at Wembley, proving he is much more than a defensive midfielder.

United manager Sir Alex Ferguson was aware of Toure's threat before the game as he employed a 4-5-1 formation against City, with Park Ji-Sung operating ahead of Carrick and Scholes in the midfield.

And it appeared to be the right move as United dominated the early exchanges and created two clear goalscoring opportunities, both spurned by Dimitar Berbatov.

But then City started to press their opponents higher up the pitch and, similar to the Liverpool side which beat United at Anfield recently, the Eastlands outfit began finding gaps between their opponent's deeper central midfield pairing.

"Maybe we had some fear in the first 20-25 minutes," said Mancini after the 1-0 success. "In the last 10-15 minutes of the first half, we started to play high, we started to press. In the second half, we dominated the game."

The resurgence was epitomised by Gareth Barry, who, along with Nigel de Jong, was the most successful tackler in the City midfield.

As for Toure, his involvement increased dramatically after the half-time interval. The number of times he touched the ball went up markedly, backing up City keeper Joe Hart's claim that the Ivorian was "fired up" and desperate to get a grip on the game.

 


Perhaps more telling was the number of interceptions made by City. In the first half, they managed eight compared to United's two. In the second, they made 16 to United's 10.

Then there was Carrick's passing accuracy. That fell from 92% in the first half to 74% in the second. Was that down to bad decision-making or because City's players were better positioned to pressurise and take advantage?

"Pressing high up the pitch is a risk and reward strategy," says former Arsenal full-back and Match of the Day pundit Lee Dixon.

"If it works - and it is hard work both physically and mentally - then the rewards are big. You obviously win the ball back closer to the opposition's goal and by the fact you press in numbers you normally have more people around the ball, hence more options to attack.

"The down side is that it only needs one person not to be working for it to break down. If this happens then you are very susceptible to a counter attack having gambled with players high up the pitch.

"Barcelona are a good exponent of this method. They press immediately after losing the ball anywhere on the pitch for a few seconds. If they don't win it back then they regroup.

"That said, if you can get through their first wave of pressing then they are, in my opinion, open and vulnerable."

United's cause certainly was not helped by the 73rd-minute dismissal of Scholes for a reckless challenge on Pablo Zabaleta. Ferguson was also without the services of Wayne Rooney, who missed the game because of suspension, although City had to make do without their own talisman, Carlos Tevez.

But are we seeing a subtle change of focus in the evolution of Mancini's team?

City continue to delight and frustrate in equal measure. Sandwiched between the semi-final over United and a 5-0 defeat of Sunderland was an abject loss at Liverpool.






Offline frico

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2011, 12:47:33 PM »
IMO not all teams could use that tactic.

Offline Die_Hard

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2011, 12:56:12 PM »
IMO not all teams could use that tactic.

You come up with that all by your self?   Big analysis that!

Offline Deeks

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2011, 02:30:33 PM »
If you have skillfull, fast and smart back4, you can do that.

Offline elan

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2011, 02:33:55 PM »
When you have a midfield like Barca does, then you can do anything you want.
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2011, 02:36:31 PM »
When you have a midfield like Barca does, then you can do anything you want.
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Offline kicker

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2011, 02:39:04 PM »
The high press is a nice thing to watch- very exciting and high impact.  It requires alot of discipline and cohesion because if you press high with gaps behind you, you'll get burnt...You also have to be superb in possession to play that game because you're relying on having the ball alot more than the opposition... The amount of running and hustling required is not sustainable for 90 mins if you're chasing the ball more than possessing it...

City pressed high for about 20 mins on Saturday -that was about as much as their legs would let them...They came out pressing in the 2nd half, scored, and then kept it going for about another 10 mins or so before they lost their legs and Man U pressed them back again....

Other than Barca playing a full game of full court press, I recall Argentina playing a high press in Copa 2007 and the opposition didn't know how to handle it...couldn't see their way...then came Brazil, and that was all she wrote. 
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 02:50:32 PM by kicker »
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Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2011, 03:00:15 PM »
During the World Cup Chile used it the tactic as their standard operating procedure. They looked very good and gave Spain all kinds of problems, hounding Xavi, Busquets and Xabi Alonso mercilessly. Ultimately Torres pace and a lucky rebound beat them, which highlights the system's vulnerability to quick strikers once the midfield press breaks down. Then Brazil knocked them out because of their technical superiority and Robinho's movement.

The high press is a nice thing to watch- very exciting and high impact.  You have to be superb in possession to play that game because you're relying on having the ball alot more than the opposition... The amount of running and hustling required is not sustainable for 90 mins if you're chasing the ball more than possessing it...

Other than Barca, I recall Argentina played a high press in Copa 2007 and the opposition didn't know how to handle it...couldn't see their way...then came Brazil, and that was all she wrote. 
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Offline kicker

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2011, 03:07:16 PM »
During the World Cup Chile used it the tactic as their standard operating procedure. They looked very good and gave Spain all kinds of problems, hounding Xavi, Busquets and Xabi Alonso mercilessly. Ultimately Torres pace and a lucky rebound beat them, which highlights the system's vulnerability to quick strikers once the midfield press breaks down. Then Brazil knocked them out because of their technical superiority and Robinho's movement.

Good call on Chile - under Bielsa they pressed very high as well.  Spain couldn't find a rhythm against them and got pretty lucky with the goals...and then Chile went down to 10 men and that was pretty much it.
 
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Offline Tenorsaw

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2011, 03:12:27 PM »
City had it done to them by Liverpool last week.  Matter of fact, the second goal came as Liverpool pressed City after losing possession in the attacking third.  They recovered the ball and set up the second.  'Pool did not give City the chance to build from the back, as they closed down the space and hounded them in their defensive third all game.  

I had a college coach who wanted us to high pressure for 90 mins.  I thought he was crazy.  The level of fitness required for that is intense, although the sub in and out nature of the NCAA was a good forum for that style of play.

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2011, 04:15:18 PM »
It requires a tremendous amount of fitness, which is why so few teams are able to sustain it for long. Even Barca, who are the gold standard, struggle to do it beyond 60-70 minutes, which is usually when other teams can get back in the game, if they manage to survive the onslaught.

City had it done to them by Liverpool last week.  Matter of fact, the second goal came as Liverpool pressed City after losing possession in the attacking third.  They recovered the ball and set up the second.  'Pool did not give City the chance to build from the back, as they closed down the space and hounded them in their defensive third all game.  

I had a college coach who wanted us to high pressure for 90 mins.  I thought he was crazy.  The level of fitness required for that is intense, although the sub in and out nature of the NCAA was a good forum for that style of play.
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Offline Controversial

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2011, 04:29:01 PM »
It requires a tremendous amount of fitness, which is why so few teams are able to sustain it for long. Even Barca, who are the gold standard, struggle to do it beyond 60-70 minutes, which is usually when other teams can get back in the game, if they manage to survive the onslaught.

City had it done to them by Liverpool last week.  Matter of fact, the second goal came as Liverpool pressed City after losing possession in the attacking third.  They recovered the ball and set up the second.  'Pool did not give City the chance to build from the back, as they closed down the space and hounded them in their defensive third all game.  

I had a college coach who wanted us to high pressure for 90 mins.  I thought he was crazy.  The level of fitness required for that is intense, although the sub in and out nature of the NCAA was a good forum for that style of play.

can TT employ this tactic when playing our central american opponents, if we have a solid backline under Pfister.

As Dansteel states, fitness is key, if TT were ever to attempt this strategy, i would suggest a sweeper as insurance, in the mold of the Old Italian Catenaccio system.

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2011, 04:34:25 PM »
Although this can be improved upon, I sincerely doubt that T&T currently have the fitness to press for very long. The other problem is they lack the sort of quick, clinical, technical strikers who could take advantage of the pressing. And in the system, the goalkeeper acts as a sort of sweeper, unless you also have pacey defenders like Puyol.

It requires a tremendous amount of fitness, which is why so few teams are able to sustain it for long. Even Barca, who are the gold standard, struggle to do it beyond 60-70 minutes, which is usually when other teams can get back in the game, if they manage to survive the onslaught.

City had it done to them by Liverpool last week.  Matter of fact, the second goal came as Liverpool pressed City after losing possession in the attacking third.  They recovered the ball and set up the second.  'Pool did not give City the chance to build from the back, as they closed down the space and hounded them in their defensive third all game.  

I had a college coach who wanted us to high pressure for 90 mins.  I thought he was crazy.  The level of fitness required for that is intense, although the sub in and out nature of the NCAA was a good forum for that style of play.

can TT employ this tactic when playing our central american opponents, if we have the a solid backline under Pfister.

As Dansteel states, fitness is key, if TT were ever to attempt this strategy, i would suggest a sweeper as insurance, in the mold of the Old Italian Catenaccio system.
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Offline Controversial

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2011, 04:43:55 PM »
Although this can be improved upon, I sincerely doubt that T&T currently have the fitness to press for very long. The other problem is they lack the sort of quick, clinical, technical strikers who could take advantage of the pressing. And in the system, the goalkeeper acts as a sort of sweeper, unless you also have pacey defenders like Puyol.

It requires a tremendous amount of fitness, which is why so few teams are able to sustain it for long. Even Barca, who are the gold standard, struggle to do it beyond 60-70 minutes, which is usually when other teams can get back in the game, if they manage to survive the onslaught.

City had it done to them by Liverpool last week.  Matter of fact, the second goal came as Liverpool pressed City after losing possession in the attacking third.  They recovered the ball and set up the second.  'Pool did not give City the chance to build from the back, as they closed down the space and hounded them in their defensive third all game.  

I had a college coach who wanted us to high pressure for 90 mins.  I thought he was crazy.  The level of fitness required for that is intense, although the sub in and out nature of the NCAA was a good forum for that style of play.

can TT employ this tactic when playing our central american opponents, if we have the a solid backline under Pfister.

As Dansteel states, fitness is key, if TT were ever to attempt this strategy, i would suggest a sweeper as insurance, in the mold of the Old Italian Catenaccio system.

i agree with you on many points, unless Pfister can unearth a defender with the class of Puyol  8)

wishful thinking it may be, however the german psyche on defense has always been a cut above, as with the italians.

its worth a thought but may not be realistic unless we see the TT team do a 360.

i have never been a fan of a keeper acting as a sweeper, its a specialist position on the football pitch that plays a key role in the backline. TT would need this as they have never been known to be a defensive squad.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 04:47:56 PM by Controversial »

Offline Dansteel - The Iceman

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2011, 04:45:37 PM »
A very good article about high lines and pressing, concentrating on Barca v Arsenal in the CL Quarter Final last year, but going back to Dinamo Kiev in the 60s, Arrigo Sacchi's AC Milan and Dunga's Brazil team.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2010/apr/06/question-pressing-crucial-modern-game

The Question: Why is pressing so crucial in the modern game?
Barcelona and Bayern Munich both demonstrated the value of pressing the opposition to regain possession quickly last week

After Valeriy Lobanovskyi's Dynamo Kyiv had beaten Zenit Leningrad 3-0 in October 1981 to seal their 10th Soviet title, the report in Sportyvna Hazeta lamented that Viktor Maslov was not alive to see his conception of the game taken to such heights. It's a shame both weren't still with us to have seen those ideas taken to another level again by Barcelona against Arsenal last Wednesday.

As many have noted over the past week, Barcelona's rapid interchange of passes, the relentless attacking and the marauding full-backs perhaps recall one of the great Brazil sides, but the underlying process by which they play comes through the line of Maslov, Rinus Michels and Lobanovskyi.

"Without the ball," Pep Guardiola said after last season's Champions League final, "we are a disastrous team, a horrible team, so we need the ball." It is a sentence that could equally be used of Arsenal: of course they are much better in possession than out of it. The difference is that Barcelona are much better at regaining possession than Arsenal.

After 20 minutes last Wednesday, Barcelona had had 72% of the possession, a barely fathomable figure against anybody, never mind against a side so noted for their passing ability as Arsenal. Their domination in that area came not so much because they are better technically – although they probably are – but because they are better at pressing. In that opening spell, Barça snapped into tackles, swirled around Arsenal, pressured them even deep in their own half. It was a remorseless, bewildering assault; there was no respite anywhere on the pitch, not even when the ball was rolled by the goalkeeper to a full-back just outside the box.

Arsenal buckled. Again and again, even players for whom composure in possession is usually a default gave the ball away. It's hard to believe Cesc Fábregas, who was admittedly possibly hampered by injury, has ever passed the ball as poorly as he did in the first half. Andrey Arshavin was so discombobulated he did a mini-Gazza and crocked his knee lunging at Sergio Busquets.

The psychological factor
This is the unspoken strength of Barcelona: they aren't just majestic in possession themselves; they also make other sides tentative in possession. Think not just of Arsenal, but of Michael Carrick and Anderson haplessly misplacing passes in Rome last May. Partly that is because Barça are so quick to close space; but it is also psychological. Barça are so good in possession, so unlikely to give the ball back, that every moment when their opponents have the ball becomes unbearably precious; even simple passes become loaded with pressure because the consequences of misplacing them are so great.

Although less spectacular in possession, Dunga's Brazil do something similar, aided, as Rob Smyth noted, by having conned the world into believing they still play in a way that they haven't since 1982. That's why so many pundits seem baffled by Brazil's recent successes in the Confederations Cup and the Copa America. John Terry, having watched from the stands as they beat England 1-0 in Doha last year, was still talking about them having "individuals who can frighten anyone one-on-on" while insisting "I don't think Brazil are anything really to worry about".

Their individuals probably aren't, but individuality is no longer their strength; their strength is their cohesion, and the discipline of their pressing which, allied to their technique when in possession, means their opponents almost never have the ball, something Wayne Rooney pointed out in a post-match interview in which his bright red face paid eloquent testament to just how much fruitless chasing he had done.

Notably, Brazil's worst recent performance came in their 1-1 draw in World Cup qualifying away to Ecuador, when only a string of saves from Julio Cesar preserved them from heavy defeat; in Quito, of course, the altitude makes the physical effort required for hard pressing far more difficult.

Shock and awe
Even in the context of their own excellence, though, Barça were exceptional in that opening 20 minutes. Which raises the question of why then, why not every game, and why not in the final 70 minutes. Perhaps an element of complacency crept in, perhaps Arsenal slowly shook themselves out of their daze and began to play, perhaps the replacement of Arshavin with Emmanuel Eboué gave them a greater defensive presence on the right; certainly those seemed to be the commonest explanations.

It is, anyway, a historical truth that when sides strike a period when everything clicks perfectly as it did for Barça in that early period, it rarely lasts more than a few minutes, even in performances held up as the greatest of all time. West Germany, for instance, only really played brilliantly for the first 35 minutes of their 3-1 win over England at Wembley in 1972. Even Hungary, in their 6-3 demolition of England in 1953, were done after 65 minutes, and had dipped towards the end of the first half. Transcendence is, by definition, very difficult to achieve and even harder to maintain.

But it may also be that Barcelona's early surge was part of a calculated plan, and that is why the comparison with Lobanovskyi seems apt, even though the more direct line of influence is through Michels and Johan Cruyff. Pressing with the intensity Barcelona achieved on Wednesday is exhausting, and cannot be kept up for long periods.

In The Methodological Basis of the Development of Training Models, the book he co-wrote with Anatoliy Zelentsov, Lobanovskyi lays out three different kinds of pressing. There is full-pressing, when opponents are hounded deep in their own half; half-pressing, when opponents are closed down only as they cross halfway; and there is false pressing, when a team pretends to press, but doesn't – that is, one player would close down the man in possession, while the others would sit off.

Particularly against technically gifted opponents, Lobanovskyi would have his sides perform the full-press early to rattle them, after which false pressing would often be enough to induce a mistake – and often, of course, his side would be comfortably ahead after the period of full-pressing.

Whether Guardiola has quite such a structured theory is unlikely, but it does seem probable that there was a conscious effort from Barcelona to impose themselves early. The only problem was that, mainly through excellent goalkeeping, and partly through ill luck and poor finishing, Barça were not ahead after 20 minutes, and Arsenal, this season, as their catalogue of decisive late goals suggests, are rather more resilient than they used to be.

Pressing back
Arsenal's attempts to respond with pressing of their own were, frankly, dismal. Allowance should be made for how shaken they were in the early minutes, but the gulf between the sides was still obvious. For pressing to be effective the team must remain compact, which is why Rafael Benítez is so often to be seen on the touchline pushing his hands towards each other as though he were playing an invisible accordion. Arrigo Sacchi said the preferred distance from centre-forward to centre-back when out of possession was 25m, but the liberalisation of the offside trap (of which more next week) has made the calculation rather more complicated.

Again and again, Arsenal's forwards would press, and a huge gap would open up between that line and the line of the midfield. Or the midfield would press, and a gap would open in front of the back four. What that means is that the player in possession can simply step round the challenger into space, or play a simple pass to a player moving into the space; the purpose of the pressing is negated. Or, if you prefer, it was as though Arsenal were false-pressing, without having achieved the first stage of the hustle which is to persuade the opposition you are good at pressing.

Even worse followed after Arsène Wenger apparently attempted to address the issue at half-time, and encouraged his back four to push up. The problem, though, is that if the timing and organisation of the step-up are amiss, a side becomes vulnerable to simple balls over the top such as led to the first goal, or through-balls such as led to the second. This has been a recurring problem for Arsenal over the past couple of years, Gabriel Agbonlahor's goal for Aston Villa at the Emirates last season being a classic example.

The Walcott protocol
What turned the game towards Arsenal – although even in the final 25 minutes when they scored twice, it would be a stretch to say they took control – was the introduction of Theo Walcott. When England beat Croatia 4-1 in Zagreb 18 months ago, he was a key player not just because he scored a hat-trick, but because his pace hit at Croatia's attacking system on their left. At Euro 2008, they had got used to Ivan Rakitic cutting in on to his right foot, with the full-back Danijel Pranjic overlapping, but Pranjic, aware of the danger of allowing Walcott to get behind him, became inhibited. He was neutralised as an attacking threat, while Rakitic became predictable, always turning infield without anybody outside him to draw the full-back – which is the downside of the inside-out winger.

By the nature of how they play, Barcelona, similarly, are vulnerable in the full-back areas. Dani Alves, in particular, is a sham of a defender – which is why Dunga prefers Maicon – but so long as Barcelona control possession it doesn't matter because his job is to be an extra man in midfield and to overlap for Messi (it may have been fear he would not be able to get forward as usual that led Guardiola to use Messi not on the right but as a false nine).

That is one of the reasons Barça's pressing is so awesome; with the full-backs pushed on, their system often appears as, effectively, a 2-5-3. To press with so many so high is a gamble, but one that has tended to be effective. Florent Malouda's performance against Alves in the second leg of the semi-final last year is an indication of what happens when the gamble fails and Barça do not control possession.

The arrival of Walcott disrupted Barça's pressing because Maxwell, like Pranjic, suddenly began looking over his shoulder (in a similar way, Charlie Davies's diagonal runs behind the full-back were a key to USA's victory over Spain at the Confederations Cup because they prevented Sergio Ramos pushing forward and so made Spain very narrow in midfield).

Samir Nasri had earlier had some success against Alves – almost all Arsenal's attacks in the first hour came through him, or through space he had created – and once Arsenal had weathered Barça's initial surge and begun to have some possession, it may be that Arshavin could have done something similar against Maxwell. Real pace, though, adds another dimension, because it means the full-back knows that as soon as the wide-man has got behind him, he has no chance of catching up. Perhaps that is an argument for Walcott starting, but then again, without Eboué last week, maybe they wouldn't have got any grip on possession.

And that, really, is the dilemma for Arsenal: attack Barcelona where they are vulnerable, by playing two out and out attacking wide-men, and the danger is you never have enough possession to make the most of that potential advantage. Concentrate on winning possession by playing more cautiously, and you may have no damaging way in which to use it.

The bigger problem, though, is the issue of pressing. Even if all else is equal, the fact remains that Barça are far, far more adept at winning the ball back than Arsenal, and that makes it all but certain they will dominate possession, and thus the game. Maslov and Lobanovskyi would have approved.
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Offline Observer

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2011, 05:47:55 PM »
Very difficult to achieve. Holland 1974 and Ajax of the same era were the originators. Milan under Ariggo Sacchi was one of the master teams that revitalized this tactic. Barca under Cruyff were known for the same tactic and now Pep has it down to a science. It is a condition that everyone has to be on the same page or yuh ass dark. It requires proper spacing, and a high degree of organization and intelligence. 
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Offline Tenorsaw

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2011, 06:46:13 PM »
Although this can be improved upon, I sincerely doubt that T&T currently have the fitness to press for very long. The other problem is they lack the sort of quick, clinical, technical strikers who could take advantage of the pressing. And in the system, the goalkeeper acts as a sort of sweeper, unless you also have pacey defenders like Puyol.

It requires a tremendous amount of fitness, which is why so few teams are able to sustain it for long. Even Barca, who are the gold standard, struggle to do it beyond 60-70 minutes, which is usually when other teams can get back in the game, if they manage to survive the onslaught.

City had it done to them by Liverpool last week.  Matter of fact, the second goal came as Liverpool pressed City after losing possession in the attacking third.  They recovered the ball and set up the second.  'Pool did not give City the chance to build from the back, as they closed down the space and hounded them in their defensive third all game.  

I had a college coach who wanted us to high pressure for 90 mins.  I thought he was crazy.  The level of fitness required for that is intense, although the sub in and out nature of the NCAA was a good forum for that style of play.

can TT employ this tactic when playing our central american opponents, if we have the a solid backline under Pfister.

As Dansteel states, fitness is key, if TT were ever to attempt this strategy, i would suggest a sweeper as insurance, in the mold of the Old Italian Catenaccio system.

i agree with you on many points, unless Pfister can unearth a defender with the class of Puyol  8)

wishful thinking it may be, however the german psyche on defense has always been a cut above, as with the italians.

its worth a thought but may not be realistic unless we see the TT team do a 360.

i have never been a fan of a keeper acting as a sweeper, its a specialist position on the football pitch that plays a key role in the backline. TT would need this as they have never been known to be a defensive squad.

Regardless of the system, keepers have no other choice but to learn to act as sweepers.  It should always be an aspect of their game nowadays.  More so though, with high pressure you have to step up and squeeze the opponent, which forces the keeper to push the defence up the field to create that effect.  Without the keeper starting this chain effect, high pressure is often hard to execute.  One player or two players high pressing is useless because a decent team will just move the ball into the spaces left by those players.  Instead, those spaces should be filled by other teammates, that are providing backward support to those actually pressing the players on the ball.

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2011, 09:04:59 AM »
It requires a tremendous amount of fitness, which is why so few teams are able to sustain it for long. Even Barca, who are the gold standard, struggle to do it beyond 60-70 minutes, which is usually when other teams can get back in the game, if they manage to survive the onslaught.

Yeah that's why you have to be superb in possession as well to play that game....Barca runs that high press for long periods (on and off for almost the full 90) because they also outpossess their opposition probably 65 - 35 on average...Their game appears to revolve around busting your lungs to win the ball then recovering when you have it and keeping it for long stretches...Most would agree that it's easier (physically and psychologically) to work with the ball than without it...Or as we say in Trini "de ball doh get tyaad"....  ;D
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Offline Mad Scorpion a/k/a Big Bo$$

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2011, 09:13:23 AM »
Although this can be improved upon, I sincerely doubt that T&T currently have the fitness to press for very long. The other problem is they lack the sort of quick, clinical, technical strikers who could take advantage of the pressing. And in the system, the goalkeeper acts as a sort of sweeper, unless you also have pacey defenders like Puyol.
It requires a tremendous amount of fitness, which is why so few teams are able to sustain it for long. Even Barca, who are the gold standard, struggle to do it beyond 60-70 minutes, which is usually when other teams can get back in the game, if they manage to survive the onslaught.

City had it done to them by Liverpool last week.  Matter of fact, the second goal came as Liverpool pressed City after losing possession in the attacking third.  They recovered the ball and set up the second.  'Pool did not give City the chance to build from the back, as they closed down the space and hounded them in their defensive third all game.  

I had a college coach who wanted us to high pressure for 90 mins.  I thought he was crazy.  The level of fitness required for that is intense, although the sub in and out nature of the NCAA was a good forum for that style of play.

can TT employ this tactic when playing our central american opponents, if we have the a solid backline under Pfister.

As Dansteel states, fitness is key, if TT were ever to attempt this strategy, i would suggest a sweeper as insurance, in the mold of the Old Italian Catenaccio system.

Since when has Puyol been "pacey?"

Offline Trini

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2011, 09:19:26 AM »
That is not T&T game, unless we playing Caribbean opponents.
As I been saying for years, when we up against CONCACAF level teams, is a different matter. If any team decide to stay back and defend in their box, T&T has absolutely no clue how to break them down. We do not have the necessary patience and fitness to move off the ball and play the controlled passing game required to play against teams that are in a set defense. When last you see a T&T game and all 22 players (well except the T&T goalie) was in the opposition half, or our 2 stoppers were camped in the centre circle and we trying break down a team who playing defensively??
Not gonna happen.
We rely on counter attacks and our players speed and individual skill to unlock teams, while spending large amounts of the game soaking up pressure and trying to string midfield passes together.
 Your keep also hadda play high up if your defense pressing. He has to be supremely confident with both feet and very mobile laterally too. I dont see us having a keeper to do this against the best in CONCACAF. Shake was really a class keeper, more than making brilliant saves. How much confidence the back four have in our current keepers when passing back ball under immense pressure?

The final thing is that you hadda be supremely well-drilled in this system. This means we have to get PLENTY games together, which is like pulling teeth for T&T.

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2011, 09:28:07 AM »

Since when has Puyol been "pacey?"

He's pretty quick over short distances....Not so much if yuh take him for a real run...

I think his wild man style (and hair lol) makes him appear quicker than he really is. 
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Offline frico

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2011, 09:33:26 AM »
IMO not all teams could use that tactic.

You come up with that all by your self?   Big analysis that!
You ever come up wid anything by yuhself in yuh life,ah spose copying and pasting is yuh life ambition,now KYS.

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2011, 10:12:32 AM »
The best way to beat a high line is to chip the ball over the top for a runner, so if the striker is quick, he can run into a huge amount of space. This is a good strategy unless the Centre back can keep up with him, and Puyol can. So he's pacey in that sense, or as Kicker says, over short distances. See his foot race with Robben in the World Cup Final when Sneijder chipped the ball over the Spanish backline. And Robben was moving!


Since when has Puyol been "pacey?"

He's pretty quick over short distances....Not so much if yuh take him for a real run...

I think his wild man style (and hair lol) makes him appear quicker than he really is. 
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Offline kicker

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2011, 10:22:18 AM »
They mention the high pressing game in here...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jonathan_wilson/04/18/2011barca.acmilan90s/index.html?xid=shareFB


Ask anybody who's done it, and they'll tell you that sustaining success is much harder than achieving it in the first place. The great Hungarian coach Bela Guttmann refused ever to spend longer than three years at a club because he felt that after that he could no longer motivate players. It may be that in the modern world of soccer in which money begets money, success is easier to sustain than previously, at least on a domestic level. On a European scale what that means is a cluster of perhaps eight or so super powers constantly battling for the Champions League, which is surely the main reason no side has successfully defended the title since the AC Milan of Arrigo Sacchi in 1990.

Should Barcelona win the Champions League this year, though, it would have good claim to be the best side since Sacchi's. It won the competition in 2009, and may have done so again last year had the prohibition on flights after the eruption of the Icelandic volcano not forced the squad to travel by bus to Milan to face Internazionale in the semifinal. Even after a 3-1 defeat, it took a defensive performance of extraordinary resilience -- and good fortune -- from Inter to withhold Pep Guardiola's team in the second leg.

Sacchi's Milan fell apart soon after its second European triumph, the demands of his pressing game and the difficulty of retaining the hunger necessary to enact it eventually becoming too great. Given Guardiola's transition over a mere three seasons from sprightly ex-player to haggard coach, and his cryptic pronouncements about leaving the Barca job and moving to Italy, it's tempting to wonder if he is finding the maintenance of a great side, constantly stoking its desire, just as taxing as Sacchi did. With their insistence on pressing, both sides play a peculiarly demanding form of football, and one to which outsiders find it difficult to adjust. Neither coach could freshen up a squad by simply going out and signing a new player and expect them immediately to settle.

But what would happen if the teams played each other? Both probably produced their greatest displays in beating Real Madrid 5-0, Barcelona earlier this season; AC Milan in the European Cup semifinal in 1989 (both, oddly, also drew 1-1 in the Bernabeu the same season). So let's take the lineups from those two games and pit them against each other.

AC Milan: Giovanni Galli; Mauro Tassotti, Franco Baresi, Alessandro Costacurta, Paolo Maldini; Roberto Donadoni, Frank Rijkaard, Carlo Ancelotti, Angelo Colombo; Ruud Gullit, Marco Van Basten

Barcelona: Victor Valdes; Dani Alves, Carles Puyol, Gerard Pique, Eric Abidal; Sergio Busquets; Xavi, Andres Iniesta; Pedro, Lionel Messi, David Villa

Milan had Giovanni Galli in goal and a back four of, from right to left, Mauro Tassotti, Franco Baresi, Alessandro Costacurta and Paolo Maldini. Frank Rijkaard and Carlo Ancelotti held the middle of midfield with Roberto Donadoni to the right and Angelo Colombo to the left, with Ruud Gullit playing just off Marco van Basten in a classic 4-4-2. Barcelona, meanwhile, had more of a 4-1-2-3 shape: Victor Valdes in goal. Dani Alves and Eric Abidal surged forward from fullback, with Gerard Pique and Carles Puyol as the two center backs. Sergio Busquets held at the back of the midfield, with Xavi and Andres Iniesta just in front of him, while Lionel Messi operated as a false nine, allowing David Villa and Pedro to cut in from wide positions.

Both sides self-consciously pursue the same philosophy of soccer; Sacchi evangelized the Total Football Dutch teams of the seventies, while Guardiola was captain of the Johan Cruyff-coached Barcelona Dream Team (1991-94) that espoused the same theories as the Netherlands and Ajax sides Cruyff had captained. The difference was in the shape, and that may be conditioned by era.

Sacchi's Milan could afford a 4-4-2 because it pressed high up the pitch, the high offside line (Sacchi's ideal was 25 meters from center back to center forward) squeezing the space and preventing the opposition having time on the ball. The liberalization of the offside law has made such a high line impossible, and any side that doesn't play an additional man in the center of midfield struggles to control possession. If this imaginary game is being played under modern rules, Sacchi's side immediately has a problem.

Then again, Barca is not used to sides that press as hard or as high as Sacchi's, and when Milan do win the ball, Colombo and Donadoni give Dani Alves and Abidal a dilemma. Do they press on as they would usually to, providing attacking width and overlapping the inverted wingers, or do they try to deal with the potential attacking threat? The evidence of this season has been that Barca's fullbacks tend to push on regardless, and that could mean a steady supply of crosses to Van Basten, an excellent finisher of aerial chances.

 
Messi's drifting, such a problem for so many sides, shouldn't present Milan with too much of an issue, given its offside line should compress the space available to him, forcing him into the area occupied by Ancelotti and Rijkaard. The concern for Milan would be that if any of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi do have even a fraction of time on the ball in a central area, they could feed angled balls through for Pedro or Villa to cut onto from wide. Part of the idea of pressing is to panic the opposition into hasty passes, but even when those three are under pressure, the suspicion must be that eventually one would find the killer pass, particularly given the changes in the offside law that make it easier for Villa and Pedro to time their runs.

Of course, a version of this fixture did occur in 1994, when Cruyff's Dream Team, the clear precursors of this Barca, met a Milan side remodeled by Fabio Capello in the Champions League final. On that occasion, Milan thrashed Barca 4-0, whose two fluid forwards, Hristo Stoichkov and Romario, found themselves squeezed out of utility by a combination of the Milan back four (even though it was significantly rejigged that night because of injury) and Marcel Desailly sitting deep in the midfield. Dejan Savicevic, meanwhile, ran wild, drifting from a nominal center forward's position into the spaces behind the Barca fullbacks.

Gullit, perhaps, could do something similar in this game and, while a great strength, the flanks are certainly where Barca look vulnerable, but the liberalization of the offside law must work in the modern team's favor. Sacchi's Milan was a team that favored position on the field over possession, but with opponents able to wander behind its back four without being called offside until they were interfering in a material way, it's hard to see how it could ever achieve that control. Barca, inevitably, would dominate possession, and then it would be just a question of when one of their playmakers pierced the offside trap.

It's a little unfair, because under the old law Milan would have a far better chance. Under the modern interpretation, though, I'm saying Guardiola's Barca to win 2-0, both goals coming from the sort of chance it created against Arsenal in the first half of the first leg at the Emirates this year -- angled balls played to forwards running in from wide.

Jonathan Wilson is the author of Inverting the Pyramid; Behind the Curtain; Sunderland: A Club Transformed; and The Anatomy of England.



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Offline JDB

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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2011, 11:50:31 AM »
They mention the high pressing game in here...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jonathan_wilson/04/18/2011barca.acmilan90s/index.html?xid=shareFB

I started reading and was about to post that you really can’t compare the two because the older offside rules made playing a high backline sooo much easier and you could compress space and have a smaller area to press in without fear of one ball into space releasing hellfire on your lone keeper.

Then I saw the author mention it at the end.

Then I saw that it was Jonathan Wilson and I was happy to know that we draw a similar conclusion that this Barcelona would beat that Milan.
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Re: Defending higher up the pitch
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2011, 02:19:53 PM »
They mention the high pressing game in here...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jonathan_wilson/04/18/2011barca.acmilan90s/index.html?xid=shareFB

I started reading and was about to post that you really can’t compare the two because the older offside rules made playing a high backline sooo much easier and you could compress space and have a smaller area to press in without fear of one ball into space releasing hellfire on your lone keeper.

Then I saw the author mention it at the end.

Then I saw that it was Jonathan Wilson and I was happy to know that we draw a similar conclusion that this Barcelona would beat that Milan.


JDB its Amazing how they come to those conclusions eh. First to begin Milan would be playing under the present offside rule as well and one could argue that Milan woud have destroyed Barca with the pace and in the air (Barca's main weakness) with VanBasten and Guillet :D
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