General > General Discussion
Kid Shot Dead, No Arrest!
Bakes:
It doesn't matter what the police chief says... he wasn't there and is basing that on the account of the shooter. Self-defense requires a response proportional to the threat. In order to successfully mount a claim of self-defense in this case Zimmerman would have to prove that he was confronted by a threat of death or serious bodily injury. Hard to make that argument with a straight face, unless he was deathly allergic to Skittles or ice tea.
dinho:
--- Quote from: kaliman2006 on March 11, 2012, 04:31:40 PM ---
--- Quote from: Bakes on March 11, 2012, 04:08:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: kaliman2006 on March 11, 2012, 03:54:38 PM ---aAccording to this account, the victim and Zimmerman were involved in a physical altercation. As I have already remarked, this could only have led to one outcome.
Zimmerman is most likely going to be acquitted based on self-defense. The sad thing is, if I had been Trayvon, I would have reacted angrily myself. Which one of us would like to followed by a stranger at night? It is natural to feel some level of discomfort and Trayvon, being seventeen and not having the benefit of maturity and experience, most likely escalated matters with Zimmerman.
Unfortunately, I have seen this movie before and know how it is going to end.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/family-of-trayvon-martin-_n_1332756.html?ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false
--- End quote ---
Just because there was a physical altercation that doesn't make the shooting a justified response...the "self defense" must be proportional to threat manifested.
--- End quote ---
This is what Chief Bill Lee has said on the issue (Quote taken from the Story):
“He felt the need to defend himself,” Lee said. “ I don’t think it was his intent to go and shoot somebody” that night.
The critical issue here is whether Chief Bill Lee's assessment is legally sound. He is going to deliver the results of his police department's investigation, based on his questioning of the the victim's and Zimmerman's family, to the Seminole County State Attorney's Office.
Now, I am not a qualified legal mind and do not pretend to be, so perhaps you can shed some light on what constitutes Lee's need to defend himself. From a layman's point of view, I would assume this would mean that Zimmerman's self-defense claim would be justified if Trayvon had either threatened to shoot him or actually attempted to brandish and discharge rounds from a firearm.
What you think? What constitutes grounds for self-defense?
--- End quote ---
How can Zimmerman claim self defense when he was the one that initiated the altercation?
From a totally simplistic perspective, the fellah was going about his business before he was confronted by a man who as it turned out was carrying a gun. Had he not been needlessly accosted based on an unfounded suspicion, he would be alive today. Zimmerman has a case to answer.
Anyway, i suspect the law will take its course here.
kicker:
This is my guess as to how the incident played off:
Zimmerman see a lil black youth probably dressed a certain way, probably walking with a lil bop in his step, and hence stereotyped the youth as "a threat", confronted him and ask him wha de hell you doing in this complex...youth probably a lil rebellious musse bawl who is you - dais none of your business and FYI, my family living here... Zims reply show me some proof that your family living here, I am capt of the neighbourhood watch and I have the power to ensure safety of the complex....Youth watch him and bawl, soldier come outta my f*ckin way eh...My uncle livin' in that building and I doh hadda show you nuttin', ride out...with that a lil scuffle took place - Zims was probalby comin' second in the tussle, loss his cool and pull the trigger...
Don't imagine Zim set out to shoot anybody, but can't see how any degree of self defense warranted a shooting. I just can't see it.
kaliman2006:
--- Quote from: kicker on March 12, 2012, 07:52:30 AM ---This is my guess as to how the incident played off:
Zimmerman see a lil black youth probably dressed a certain way, probably walking with a lil bop in his step, and hence stereotyped the youth as "a threat", confronted him and ask him wha de hell you doing in this complex...youth probably a lil rebellious musse bawl who is you - dais none of your business and FYI, my family living here... Zims reply show me some proof that your family living here, I am capt of the neighbourhood watch and I have the power to ensure safety of the complex....Youth watch him and bawl, soldier come outta my f*ckin way eh...My uncle livin' in that building and I doh hadda show you nuttin', ride out...with that a lil scuffle took place - Zims was probalby comin' second in the tussle, loss his cool and pull the trigger...
Don't imagine Zim set out to shoot anybody, but can't see how any degree of self defense warranted a shooting. I just can't see it.
--- End quote ---
I am inclined to agree with your re-enactment. Zimmerman shoulda jess follow orders and stay put. If I was in charge of a neighbourhood watch, no way I getting involved in a potentially dangerous situation. Zimmerman did not understand his role. Leave the confrontation to the professionals.
Given the underlying hostility and contempt of the humanity of African-Americans in the Anglo-Saxon tribal USA, I would not be surprised in the least if Zimmerman goes on with his life as normal, while Trayvon's family is left to grieve. Knowing the M.O., there will probably a brief period of impotent outrage following the non-charge of the Trayvon and then things will continue as normal.
I glad I eh grow up in the US as a black person yes. The status of being a racial minority in a hostile environment is a hell of a thing.
Daft Trini:
Clearing up the reference to Zimmerman being a Jewish name-
Noticed that the media and press was reporting Zimmerman being "white", not that there is anything wrong with this or his ethnicity or religion. I noticed also that this community is in a heavily Jewish dominated area. As with other heavily jewish communities for e.g. Baltimore/Parkville/Pikesville an "armed" community watch is enforced or encourage, even if the area is gentrified. The shooting or beating of a "black kid" in a community watched neighborhood has not been uncommon in the last years. While I'm pro 2nd Amendment, I'm not in favor of these armed community watches. A few years a similar situation played out in Baltimore, (kid minding his own business, was cornered for wandering after dark in their community, refused to answer when questioned and was beaten) The main "beater" was taken to prison (released on bail, by a Jewish Judge) and fled to Israel. I think the story ends abruptly when Zimmerman is classified as "white" since there has been a number of beatings and harassments for just being black in these heavily Jewish Dominated Communities.
(I'm not anti-semetic)
The Baltimore Story
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/01/21/brother-charged-in-neighborhood-watch-attack/
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