April 25, 2019, 12:06:55 AM

Author Topic: Govt to remove nursing exam  (Read 6837 times)

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Offline Bakes

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2012, 11:52:15 PM »
I can ask why did numerous studies lament the fact that so many nurses are leaving our shores for better wages abroad?

Okay we'll skip past the fact that you won't address the counterpoints I've raised and go to your new issue raised. If i really wanted to I'd challenge your bald appeal to authority in citing these unspecified "numerous studies", but let's concede that for arguments sake  People have always migrated abroad, opportunities or no opportunities. Therefore there's no real surprise then that they'd leave TnT for better opportunities.

Is it your argument that because others have in the past left for better paying jobs that having nurses work harder for those opportunities is somehow the same as there not being any opportunity at all?  I'm having a hard time understanding that argument, let alone buying it. To paint for you an imperfect anology, Pa. is but one of the jurisdictions in which I am admitted. By virtue of my current good standing in Pa. I get to bypass DC's (for example) bar requirement.  If I were not a member of another bar that doesn't forclose opportunities for me in DC, it just means I have to pursue admission the old fashioned way, by takin and passing the DC bar.

Passing the nursing exam in Trinidad is analogous to me passing the Pa bar, I get to bypass taking certain other states' bar requirement, just as the Trini nurses get to bypass the visa certification process by pursuing the certified statement route. No exam removes the bypass option, and I would even agree that it makes things more difficult for Trini applicants. But it doesn't limit their opportunities any more than me having to sit for the DC bar "limits" my chances of practicing there.

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2012, 11:30:53 AM »
Ok, why do you think the Minister of Health wants to remove the accreditation exam? 

Offline Bakes

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2012, 01:49:11 PM »
Ok, why do you think the Minister of Health wants to remove the accreditation exam? 

Like anything else with this (or any "Third World" country) the right person got in their ear and. Convince them it was a good idea (somebody son or daughter get caught up in it) and it wasn't well thought out. No proof, just a feeling
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 02:31:44 PM by Bakes »

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2012, 01:59:42 PM »
Bakes I feel it more sinister than that.  This guy is a Doctor, a damn good one by all reports.  You really feel that he go fall for some shit like that?

I do remember several studies by the Goals/Vision 20/20 people and they were very concerned about the brain drain of skilled workers from T&T.

That is exactly what they wanted to prevent, teachers and nurses that leave the shores, so the solution was making it a true professional career with accreditation exams and higher pay and even subsisized housing.

For a man like the Minister to get a vaps and say exams done strange indeed

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2012, 02:50:45 PM »
http://caribbeanmedicalnews.com/2012/02/migrating-nurses-leaving-mentorship-gap-for-newcomers/

http://sta.uwi.edu/conferences/salises/documents/Reis%20%20M.pdf

http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,144072.html

Better pay may stem nurses exodus
Tuesday, July 19 2011

click on pic to zoom inHealth matters: Chief Nursing Officer Arnim Hargreaves, left, and president of the Nursing Council Oneilia Alexis in discussion with Minister of Healt...Increasing their salaries might be among the solutions to stem the migration of nurses, Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan said yesterday.

Khan said the nursing shortage in the country is a serious problem and the nurses cannot be stopped from leaving.

“What we have to do is to increase their salaries, hopefully and make them more comfortable,” Khan said in response to a question on the nurse shortage at the opening of the 19th Meeting of Regional General Nursing Councils at the Kapok Hotel, St Clair. At present the country has a shortage of some 3,000 nurses.


On the other hand, president of the Nursing Council of Trinidad and Tobago, Oneilia Alexis said local nursing bodies found out some years ago during an impasse with the Government that the problem was “not really salary, but a lack of education and upward mobility.”

Alexis said, too, that Caricom also needs to rethink the issue of “managed migration” of nurses.

In using education to stem migration, Alexis said, “in TT, we have been improving our education over time. We have worked quite a while to get our nurses to the Bachelor’s of Science Degree, and to train them in other areas. (TT) has been in the forefront of this effort. ”

Caricom Ministers of Health, she said, have agreed that “the Bachelor’s of Science Degree will now be our basic entry level to the profession.”

The Bachelors and Masters programmes in nursing at the University of the West Indies, she said are now seeing an increase in applications and entries.

She welcomed the Government’s move to take legislation to Parliament to enact legislation for the Nurses Practitioners Programme. This programme will allow trained speciality nurses to administer primary health care in the absence of a medical doctor.

“That is very important for us. We have been working on that for a number of years. We are looking forward to that. It is another means of upward mobility. It will give us a broader scope of practice.”

Khan agreed different criteria and methods of training should also help to stem the exodus of locally trained nurses to North America and Europe.

He said trained speciality nurses holding Bachelor of Science degrees and Registered Nursing certification would be eligible for better salaries.

On methods of training, Khan said he is thinking of “introducing the patient care assistant system” in which the assistants going into the system and work their way up to become nurses.

On the issue of managed migration, Alexis noted that the Caricom Heads of Government had looked at it but nothing came out of it.

“Because we are losing nurses all over the Caribbean, it is something that we need to look at again,” she said.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 03:07:54 PM by truetrini SC »

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2012, 02:52:03 PM »
http://www.caribbeannewsnow.com/caribnet/2005/05/17/exodus.shtml

Monday, May 16, 2005
BASSETERRE, St. Kitts: As regional governments face losing nurses from the Caribbean, Rupert Herbert, St. Kitts and Nevis Minister with responsibility for Health, is hopeful the soon-to-be-opened International University of Nursing in St Kitts, will assist in the reduction of the brain-drain of Caribbean nurses to Canada, England as well as the United States.

“We hope that the demand for our nurses will decrease if the global shortage is addressed this way,” Herbert said while speaking on the World Service of the BBC recently, adding that, while nurses trained at the International University of Nursing “would be a small drop in the bucket, it will still in some way, allay concerns about the brain drain” from the Caribbean.

Earlier this year, Caribbean Net News highlighted the serious problems the region's health services were experiencing due to the exodus of the region's nurses to more lucrative overseas jobs.

According to Trinidad and Tobago's Minister with responsibility for Health, John Rahael, the presence of the nurses from the Philippines is all part of Government’s short-term effort to ease the nation’s nursing shortage, as he further indicated that, following a short orientation before assuming their duties at the end of March, thirty of them will be stationed at the Eric Williams Medical Sciences Complex (EWMSC) while the others will be shared between the St. Ann’s and the Sangre Grande Hospitals.


truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2012, 02:54:51 PM »
However, Montserrat's Minister of Health Idabelle Meede, sees nothing wrong at the moment with Trinidad and Tobago importing nurses from the Philippines.

"We have to look at the real picture. Here in the Caribbean we are very short on nurses. The bigger countries such as the USA and England come in and take up our nurses as soon as we train them.
http://www.caribbeannewsnow.com/caribnet/2005/03/14/working.shtml


Half of Trinidad and Tobago's nurses have left the country. So many nurses have left Jamaica that the government forced Britain to put a moratorium on hiring them. Many nurses leave Canada each year for the U.S., forcing Canada to raid Britain, which in turn poaches nurses from Ghana.


Bakes as I said this has been going on since the mid 80's and it is a huge problem for T&T helath care,  removing the exam limits that mobility even in the Caricom region.

Nothing can convince me that the idea to remove the exam has nothing to do with retention right here in T&T

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2012, 02:56:57 PM »
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/commentaries/Dr_Khan__nurses_must_meet_in_the_middle-161521355.html


As for fixing the shortage of nurses in T&T, Dr Khan should look to deeper solutions than just changing an exam and a council. Nurses from the Caribbean have always been in high demand in other countries, and that has contributed to the shortage of recent decades. But people, especially professionals, do not emigrate only because they can earn a better salary elsewhere. More often, they leave because their country's institutions, systems, and leaders do not value and respect their skills.

Offline Bakes

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2012, 07:37:24 PM »
Bakes I feel it more sinister than that.  This guy is a Doctor, a damn good one by all reports.  You really feel that he go fall for some shit like that?

I do remember several studies by the Goals/Vision 20/20 people and they were very concerned about the brain drain of skilled workers from T&T.

That is exactly what they wanted to prevent, teachers and nurses that leave the shores, so the solution was making it a true professional career with accreditation exams and higher pay and even subsisized housing.

For a man like the Minister to get a vaps and say exams done strange indeed

I don't think is 'vaps' at all... I think he doing this because it favors some (business? personal?) interest.

As for the rest of responses you posted... what point are you getting at, that there is a shortage of nurses?  That there is a nursing brain drain?  I'm not really interested in arguing either of those points.  Of greater interest to me is your central contention that removing the exam will limit the professional opportunities for Trini nurses.  Once again you repeat the bald claim without substantiating how such a limitation would come about.  Nurses would still be in high demand elsewhere... both regionally and internationally.  You have not shown how their opportunities would be limited.  Once again, just look at the statement you yourself posted:

Quote
But people, especially professionals, do not emigrate only because they can earn a better salary elsewhere. More often, they leave because their country's institutions, systems, and leaders do not value and respect their skills.

Accepting this as true (and we don't know that it is) then this would seem to indicate one of two things:

1) Nurses see the removal of the examination requirement as a good thing, and would therefore be encouraged to stay home. Or,
2) Nurses see the removal of the examination requirement as a further slap in the face and look even more fervently to migrate. 

How does either of these scenarios fit with your conspiracy theory that the government is trying to prevent nurses from migrating and working abroad?

How would the change in policy limit employment opportunities for nurses?  You are YET to really explain the correlation as you see it.

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2012, 11:59:28 PM »
Student nurses: Keep registration exam
Saturday, July 7 2012

Student nurses are against Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan’s plan to remove the Nurses’ Registration examination.

Training under the Health Ministry and the College of Science Technology and Applied Arts of Trinidad and Tobago (COSTAATT), the student nurses met at the Port-of-Spain General Hospital yesterday to discuss the pros and cons of removing the exam, if it is taken by Khan.

The students plan to meet with him to discuss the effects stopping the exam will have on them locally and internationally.

On Thursday, Khan said the Nursing Council of Trinidad and Tobago’s (NCTT) registration exam is outdated and removing the exam will not lower nursing standards. He said the exam was formed to facilitate those nurses who were trained “in house” at hospitals. He said the exam was needed at a time when there were no accredited tertiary institutions. Student nurses disagree with Khan and appealed to him to let the exam remain.

“If the minister takes away the registration exams, nurses won’t be properly qualified and they won’t be able to demand better pay, the Government will be able to pay us whatever they want,” a student nurse said at the meeting. The student nurses said the registration by the Nursing Council is what makes them “marketable” to other countries, therefore the exam was a necessary qualification.
“Those standards are what makes us marketable and professional individuals,” said a student nurse. She said nurses want the option of practising anywhere they choose including other countries.

“After the minister takes away our freedom he takes away our leverage and he can limit us, exams is something to level the play field,” said another student nurse. “This would mean nurses cannot go to other countries not even in the Caribbean.” Afterward, student nurses training at COSTAATT held a second meeting to discuss the deplorable living conditions of the hostel and other problems they have been encountering with the Bachelor of Science degree offered by the tertiary institution. Student Natalie Agarrat spoke of her “wonderful experience” in a nurse’s hostel in Jamaica. Agarrat spoke of the visiting area being a clean and inviting environment. She also said the level of security in Jamaica’s hostel was commendable, adding that Trinidad is in direct need of a similar hostel.

Marisa Pryce, another student, said they are required to make up 3,285 clinical hours, which is the practical time they spend on the wards rotating from various medical sections.

Pryce complained of the difficulty to make up the required practical hours, along with studying 49 courses, some which include creative arts subjects unrelated to the degree, and submitting laboratory reports.

“Out of the 49 courses, subjects like Music, Arts and Craft should not be mandatory but elective, as it does not apply to a science degree,” Pryce said.

Offline Socapro

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2012, 01:38:33 AM »
Removal of the Nurses’ Registration examination is definitely a backward steps.

No one can sensibly argue against that point.

Our Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan should go to jail for even proposing such a plan!  >:(
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline fishs

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2012, 10:23:41 AM »

 If they are schooled and trained in trinidad they should at least serve in trinidad for time that is equivalent to the cost of the training before thay bust it.

 Now if you use gate you have to either repay or work for some time at home
Ah want de woman on de bass

Offline Bakes

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2012, 11:45:11 AM »
Student nurses: Keep registration exam
Saturday, July 7 2012

Student nurses are against Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan’s plan to remove the Nurses’ Registration examination.

yadda yadda yadda...

Lemme know when yuh ready to start yuh argument. Posting bald hyperbolic statements no different from your own is hardly advancing your cause.  These students opposed the plan and others support it.  The statements here claim that the exam makes them more marketable... which no one denies... it smooths the path to foreign work. That's never been in dispute so enough of the red-herrings.  I'm interested in finding out HOW the lack of exam certification would prevent nurses from working abroad, particularly in an era of shortage.

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2012, 12:10:07 PM »
Listen I have my opinion and I am convinced that I am correct in my assessment of the situation.

Without the exam the nurses have no choice but to stay and work in Trinidad.  It is plain for all to see that without the accrediation exam the nurses are NOT registered and cannot get even a provisional certification OUTSIDE T&T.

There is a great shoratge of nurses in T&T has been the case for decades.

They leave in droves.

Now with the exam possibly removed, they cannot.  This not a suggestion that is a FACT!   In order to wuk overseas they need certification at home.

For Caricom jobs, they need the regional certification and same goes for Canada, USA and UK..maybe they can go India and get ah wuk without the exam.

Case closed, take win
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 12:13:30 PM by truetrini SC »

truetrini

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Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2012, 04:32:23 AM »
Nursing Council exam ‘optional’

Friday, July 13 2012

After a war of words between Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan and the Nursing Council over the minister’s plan to make amendments to the Nurses and Midwives Act to remove the council’s registration exam, Khan appears to have softened his position.

Yesterday, he said he would try and make the exam “optional.”

At yesterday’s post-Cabinet media briefing, Khan said he would meet with the Nursing Council, possibly on Monday when he returns from Tobago, where Cabinet was having a retreat.

He told the media at Coco Reef Resort:

“I was not removing the exam. I was trying to make it optional, but not compulsory for TT students who come out of accredited institutions.”

Khan said the council exam comprised four papers – two multiple choice and two essays. To pass the exam nurses must get 60 percent in all the papers.

“Some of the students can get 90 to 100 marks in two of the papers which are multiple choice. And if they get 58 or 59 in the other two papers, they fail the total exam.

That has been going on for a long time. So you could get almost 100 percent in the multiple choice which is clinical and non clinical, but the ones which are corrected which are essay type questions you could end up not getting that 60 percent. After three tries then you are out of nursing forever,” Khan said.

Based on this, he, said the format of the exam did not auger well for the total average students received.