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Author Topic: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)  (Read 73312 times)

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Offline jusbless

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #300 on: September 02, 2015, 12:23:20 AM »
Secondly we would of run faster if we left Deon on the last leg and Cedenio on third. I have yet to see Deon give up a lead in a 4x400 . Cedenio is good at running people down but Deon is good at staying in front

Offline jusbless

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #301 on: September 02, 2015, 12:26:36 AM »
Plus I honestly don't see Solomon making the team I expect Jereem at south plains to surpass himI expect him to finish sixth or seventh

Offline Socapro

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #302 on: September 02, 2015, 12:28:52 AM »
Secondly we would of run faster if we left Deon on the last leg and Cedenio on third. I have yet to see Deon give up a lead in a 4x400 . Cedenio is good at running people down but Deon is good at staying in front

You are correct however as Deon is coming back from injury and Machel was the only TTO athlete to make the 400m final in Beijing, I can see the logic of rewarding Machel Cedenio with the last leg.
If Deon Lendore was not coming back from injury then of course he should have been given the 4th leg to run based on his track record of rarely giving up a lead on anchor.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 12:41:28 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Socapro

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #303 on: September 02, 2015, 12:40:13 AM »
Plus I honestly don't see Solomon making the team I expect Jereem at south plains to surpass himI expect him to finish sixth or seventh

Lets see; Jarrin Solomon current 400m PB of 44.98 and 2015 SB of 45.15 puts him at 46th in the 2015 World List while Jereem Richards current 400m PB and SB is 45.91 which places him at 144th in the 2015 World List. http://www.iaaf.org/records/toplists/sprints/400-metres/outdoor/men/senior/2015
Solomon in addition ran the 400m at National Trials while Jereem didn't.
Is the choice as to who I'll put in our 4x400m relay squad ahead of who that didfficult? I don't think so.
In addition Solomon has a track record of giving team TTO solid 44.mid legs in the 4x4 relay. Does Jereem have such a track record? I don't think so.
But hopefully Jereem can make his contribution in the future if only he decides to take part in the 400m at National Trials and can beat Solomon in the Final to prove that he is a faster quarter-miler than Solomon. Knowing Solomon's determination to make the TTO 4x4 relay squad and to even be in the top 3 to qualify for an individual 400m spot that task is easier said than done.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 12:53:38 AM by Socapro »
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Offline Socapro

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #304 on: September 02, 2015, 02:45:29 AM »
Socapro your theory is lacking and is unfair cause you are comparing quow first leg with jarrin second leg. The first leg is always the slowest leg. Your argument lacks cause you state replace quow. If that is the case your logic of not putting jarrin on first indicates to me that he cant run the first leg. So why not  put  quow on second and jarrin first and then compare Times. If you bringing stats in an argument at least be fair and match like with like. Relay beast lets examine his split at world relays final and pan am games what were those split. As to referring to him as a relay beast and yet quow who for years have been Mr dependable you ignore his contribution. Are we sometimes so blinded that we look at things from a skewed point of view.

You started off your argument with a wrong assumption meaning that the rest of your argument is flawed.
I never compared Quow's first leg with Solomon's 2nd leg. I compared Quow's 1st leg with that of the other competitors on first leg to assess that he ran a weak 1st leg in the 4x4 Heats. Quow however improved in the 4x4 Final in regards to his performance in lane 4 on the 1st leg as compared to the other competitors.
If you view video of the 4x4 Heats you would see that Quow in lane 2 handed off the baton to Solomon in almost last place and that Solomon managed to move us up to 6th place during his 2nd leg while Lendore moved us up to 3rd place during his brilliant 3rd leg. Lalonde Gordon then moved us from 3rd to 2nd spot on the final leg pipping Javon Francis at the finish line to qualify us for a decent lane in the 4x4 Final.
Apparently after the 4x4 Heats Quow blamed his weak lead-off leg on his bad lane draw (in lane 2) which has some validity as most athletes who ran in the Bird's Nest stadium have run below their best from lane 2 including our own Machel Cedenio in the 400m final.

USA 2:58.13 Q, TTO Q, JAM Q, Men's 4x400m Heat 2 World Champs 2015
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/zhrZiYnzkSM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/zhrZiYnzkSM</a>

Legs assessment: Weak 1st leg from Quow, he lost ground with most of the other teams; Decent 2nd leg from Solomon; Brilliant 3rd leg from Lendore; Strong 4th leg from Gordon.

I did say I was satisfied with the performances of the guys on all legs in the 4x4 final but based upon performances in the 4x4 Heats I would personally have given Solomon the nod to run the 2nd leg again in the 4x4 Final based upon his freshness and his performance in the 4x4 heats and also taking into account the fact that Quow might have been feeling the effects of running in the individual 400m flat and almost equalling his PB in the Heats.

I believe a TTO 4x4 relay team in the final with personnel and legs in the following order could have been faster and could have ran the USA much closer for the gold medal:-
1st leg Lalonde Gordon; 2nd leg Jarrin Solomon; 3rd leg Machel Cedenio; 4th leg Deon Lendore.

Remember picking the best 4x4 relay team for the job should be based on freshness and most recent performances and who can do the most reliable job on the day rather than just on name and reputation.
A fresh Renny Quow is interchangeable with a fresh Jarrin Solomon in regards to running in the 4x4 Final.

Regardless I am satisfied with our 4x4 relay team's performance for silver medal especially seeing that we set a new national record. I think next year in Rio if all our top quarter-milers are fresh enough and are run in the right order to their individual strengths in the final that we can run a 2:56.xx and set a new national record which is around the time we will need to run to beat the USA, Bahamas and JA and win Olympic gold.
I think USA, Bahamas and JA will all be stronger next year so our TTO team will also need to be quicker and stronger if wish to stay ahead of the pack. It's a pity there are no World Relays next year so our TTO 4x4 relay team can assess its position before Rio but hopefully we will send a national team to Penn Relays 2016 so we can see how we are gearing up and how much work we need to do in preparation for winning Men's 4x4 relay gold in Rio.

PS:
Btw I never argued anywhere that Quow has not been reliable for us in the 4x4 relay over the years but the same also applies to Solomon which is why I refer to him as a relay beast. A relay beast has a reputation of performing better in the relay than they would typically do in the individual event. They become transformed with a baton in their hand.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 11:56:53 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline andre samuel

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #305 on: September 02, 2015, 07:21:58 AM »
I am reading these comments and i am trying to understand what is the angle that Mr Solomon's supporter is coming from.

He is at best our 5th best quarter miler, but his role cannot be discounted.  He is a valuable member through the rounds.

I get the impression that he is a glory seeker since he wants the individual 400m even though deep down inside he knows hes not in our top 3.

The fact that our National trials are NOT the set in stone criteria for selection makes any point about his '2nd place' finish moot.

We dont have the depth to turn away athletes who are disqualified (Cedinio) or injured (Lendore) for our trials.  He should do like Lalonde Gordan and let his feet do the talking since Lalonde's performance in the NACAC games was what was used to pip Solomon for the 3rd spot.

What is sad is that he has a PB of 44.98 and saw men running 44.9 and not even making it out the first round but still talkin about how he was ready to run 44.5...........lol

Andre Samuel, who controls all the rights to the phrase "ah love it!!"

Offline RC

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #306 on: September 02, 2015, 10:27:07 AM »
I am reading these comments and i am trying to understand what is the angle that Mr Solomon's supporter is coming from.

He is at best our 5th best quarter miler, but his role cannot be discounted.  He is a valuable member through the rounds.

I get the impression that he is a glory seeker since he wants the individual 400m even though deep down inside he knows hes not in our top 3.

The fact that our National trials are NOT the set in stone criteria for selection makes any point about his '2nd place' finish moot.

We dont have the depth to turn away athletes who are disqualified (Cedinio) or injured (Lendore) for our trials.  He should do like Lalonde Gordan and let his feet do the talking since Lalonde's performance in the NACAC games was what was used to pip Solomon for the 3rd spot.

What is sad is that he has a PB of 44.98 and saw men running 44.9 and not even making it out the first round but still talkin about how he was ready to run 44.5...........lol


Let me start by saying that in my opinion the three best quarter milers were selected to run the individual 400m. it is hard not to sympathise with Solomon, he finished 2nd at the national championship yet to other runners were selected ahead of him in the individual race. Quow had a poor 4x400m heat, and was running progressively slower 44.54, 44.98, and 45.9 i think. solomon was rested ran a good leg and i think split faster than Lendore yet was not selected to run in the final. The National Championship is compulsory but it seems beating someone in head to head competition there carries little or no weight. In Britain the top two in their trials are automatically selected provided that they have the qualifying time and the final slot is left to the selectors. Only a very few athletes will ever win an individual world or olympic medal so competing at a global championship or running in a relay final .may be the highlight of someones career. Sadly if everyone is fit next year i don't think Solomon will get that opportunity.

Offline Deeks

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #307 on: September 02, 2015, 10:33:32 AM »
There is still plenty of time between now and Rio Olimpics. Everybody is not guaranteed anything.

Offline STMB

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #308 on: September 02, 2015, 11:02:44 AM »
By running in the heats didn't Solomon receive a silver medal as well (though not on the podium)?

The NAAA could have prevented all of this by simply and clearly communicating their selection policy, if not to the public, at least to the athletes invited to run in the National Championships. Once that is done athletes will know their rights, options and adjust their expectations.

I prefer some flexibility given the size of our world class talent pool and the likelihood of non-severe injuries near selection time (e.g. Lendore). There should however (like the UK) be some assurance of selection (top 1 or 2 inside the standard); but added to that, policy that addresses the eventuality of automatic selections getting injured after the championships, or suffering a marked drop in form leading up to the global games (before the submitting of the final participation roster).

The same should be documented and communicated for the 4x100m relay, as it is possible that the optimal team may come from a mixture of 100m and 200m athletes if both championship finals produced high caliber performances.

If Solomon was told that the top 3 would compete in the individual 400m and the relay final, then by right he should complain about his non-selection. But if the NAAA made it clear that it would be the coach's responsibility/call then as seemingly unfair as it played out, he should abide, show that they were wrong by his performances on the circuit after the WCs, or suck salt, buckle down and avoid the same in 2016.

The remaining caveat of course is that a relay coach is selected who exhibits NON-BIAS, as in the past some teams were comprised of athletes from THEIR OWN club over others, that ended in performances detrimental to the country's medal chances.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 11:05:20 AM by STMB »

Offline Deeks

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #309 on: September 02, 2015, 12:04:17 PM »
You ah friggin gain!!!

Offline Socapro

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #310 on: September 02, 2015, 12:07:59 PM »
You ah friggin gain!!!

I deleted his post as it did not relate to the topic or this forum.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline jusbless

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #311 on: September 02, 2015, 12:46:29 PM »
By running in the heats didn't Solomon receive a silver medal as well (though not on the podium)?

The NAAA could have prevented all of this by simply and clearly communicating their selection policy, if not to the public, at least to the athletes invited to run in the National Championships. Once that is done athletes will know their rights, options and adjust their expectations.

I prefer some flexibility given the size of our world class talent pool and the likelihood of non-severe injuries near selection time (e.g. Lendore). There should however (like the UK) be some assurance of selection (top 1 or 2 inside the standard); but added to that, policy that addresses the eventuality of automatic selections getting injured after the championships, or suffering a marked drop in form leading up to the global games (before the submitting of the final participation roster).

The same should be documented and communicated for the 4x100m relay, as it is possible that the optimal team may come from a mixture of 100m and 200m athletes if both championship finals produced high caliber performances.

If Solomon was told that the top 3 would compete in the individual 400m and the relay final, then by right he should complain about his non-selection. But if the NAAA made it clear that it would be the coach's responsibility/call then as seemingly unfair as it played out, he should abide, show that they were wrong by his performances on the circuit after the WCs, or suck salt, buckle down and avoid the same in 2016.

The remaining caveat of course is that a relay coach is selected who exhibits NON-BIAS, as in the past some teams were comprised of athletes from THEIR OWN club over others, that ended in performances detrimental to the country's medal chances.
The man receive a silver and vex because he was not in the final, How the rest of the team should feel because it seems his personal ambition goes before team ambition, I can recall his words on the national finals as he said this is about business. So I guess him participating will help him get more meets cause on his times alone it will not have many organisers calling him , but if he was in the finals that would help him better financially. My problem is it is about what is best for him and not for Trinidad and Tobago, How patriotic is that. Why he don't use this to motivate him to run faster , Socapro do you really think he can run 44.5. He has peaked at 44.98 and he just does not have the goods , I think maybe he can think in changing to the 800m and see if he can be world class in that area. He reiminds me of Nicklas Bendtner believes he is the best in the world but in reality he is not at that level. He needs to stop being dillusional.

Offline Socapro

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #312 on: September 02, 2015, 03:30:43 PM »
By running in the heats didn't Solomon receive a silver medal as well (though not on the podium)?

The NAAA could have prevented all of this by simply and clearly communicating their selection policy, if not to the public, at least to the athletes invited to run in the National Championships. Once that is done athletes will know their rights, options and adjust their expectations.

I prefer some flexibility given the size of our world class talent pool and the likelihood of non-severe injuries near selection time (e.g. Lendore). There should however (like the UK) be some assurance of selection (top 1 or 2 inside the standard); but added to that, policy that addresses the eventuality of automatic selections getting injured after the championships, or suffering a marked drop in form leading up to the global games (before the submitting of the final participation roster).

The same should be documented and communicated for the 4x100m relay, as it is possible that the optimal team may come from a mixture of 100m and 200m athletes if both championship finals produced high caliber performances.

If Solomon was told that the top 3 would compete in the individual 400m and the relay final, then by right he should complain about his non-selection. But if the NAAA made it clear that it would be the coach's responsibility/call then as seemingly unfair as it played out, he should abide, show that they were wrong by his performances on the circuit after the WCs, or suck salt, buckle down and avoid the same in 2016.

The remaining caveat of course is that a relay coach is selected who exhibits NON-BIAS, as in the past some teams were comprised of athletes from THEIR OWN club over others, that ended in performances detrimental to the country's medal chances.
The man receive a silver and vex because he was not in the final, How the rest of the team should feel because it seems his personal ambition goes before team ambition, I can recall his words on the national finals as he said this is about business. So I guess him participating will help him get more meets cause on his times alone it will not have many organisers calling him , but if he was in the finals that would help him better financially. My problem is it is about what is best for him and not for Trinidad and Tobago, How patriotic is that. Why he don't use this to motivate him to run faster , Socapro do you really think he can run 44.5. He has peaked at 44.98 and he just does not have the goods , I think maybe he can think in changing to the 800m and see if he can be world class in that area. He reiminds me of Nicklas Bendtner believes he is the best in the world but in reality he is not at that level. He needs to stop being dillusional.

If Quow and Santos (DR) can run 44.5 or faster then so can Solomon as they are all around the same height and built in regards to tools for the job. Its all about training, speed endurance, race strategy and mind set. Regards Solomon trying his hand at the 800m as you suggest to see if he can be world class in that event, its an idea but I doubt he will be able to tally with the top Kenyans to become world class in that event.

However my argument is that Solomon is a 4x4 relay beast and tends to run much faster on relay legs than he does in the individual 400m event. Keeping this in mind and looking at Solomon's performance in the 4x4 Heats and his relative freshness, I personally would have rewarded him to run the 2nd leg again in the final if I was in charge of selecting the team for the final.
We probably could have run the USA closer for gold with this 4x4 team in the final in this order:-
1st leg Lalonde Gordon; 2nd leg Jarrin Solomon; 3rd leg Machel Cedenio; 4th leg Deon Lendore.

I think that Lalonde Gordon could have given us a quicker lead-off than Quow did and a fresh Solomon could have definitely given us a 44.mid clocking on the 2nd leg, Cedenio would have given us a similar 44.47 clocking or better on 3rd leg and Lendore would probably have run a bit faster on anchor as he is very good at maintaining a lead on the final leg when he collects the baton in first position.

However saying all that I am still satisfied with how all the members of our 4x4relay team ran in the final as they all gave their best and we ended up with our first World Champs 4x4 relay silver medal.
Next year for Rio with the right strategy and competition for spots in our TTO relay team I think we stand a strong chance of upgrading our 4x4 Olympic bronze from London to gold but it won't be handed to us on a plate by our main competitors. Maintaining a good healthy team spirit in our relay teams is also an important factor for getting consistent medal winning performances out of team members.
Lets enjoy our team performance in Final and post race interview again! :thumbsup:

USA win, TTO 2nd NR, GBR 3rd 4x400m Men Final World Champs 2015
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/uj7YEkkKXqM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/uj7YEkkKXqM</a>
Team TTO running order: Renny Quow, Lalonde Gordon, Deon Lendore and Machel Cedenio

Legs assessment: Strong 1st leg from Quow 44.9; Strong 2nd leg from Gordon 44.1; Strong 3rd leg from Lendore 44.85; Strong 4th leg from Cedenio 44.47.

WCH 2015 Beijing - Team Trinidad and Tobago 4x400 Relay Men Final Silver
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/Cb6BRO88Zr8" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/Cb6BRO88Zr8</a>
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 05:59:08 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline TheCarterFilez

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #313 on: September 02, 2015, 05:40:40 PM »
HA ppl knowledge so LITTLE (SOCAPRO) that u comparing a first leg split of 44.9 to a 44.5 leg split of another leg ? it's completely off... first leg has to go in the blocks.. while the other legs have a running start which can give u a .50 to 1 second advantage on the other 3 legs compared to the 1st leg..

 44.9 on a first leg basically means u ran that in an open 400... other legs split cant be compared to it... EDUCATED YOURSELF SOCAPRO...

44.8 by deon in the finals and 44.5 by jarrin in the heats, if that was  on a first let would have probably been 45.0/2

Offline TheCarterFilez

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #314 on: September 02, 2015, 06:09:58 PM »
You lack a lot knowledge.. actually GO CHECK THE OFFICIAL SPLITS socapro.. quow handed off the baton in 6th place in the heats... not last..... so im confused how u said solomon moved up to 6th.. so how much ground did he actually make up ...

At the end of the day....

Cedenio - 44.3
Lendore - 44.4
Quow - 44.5
Gordon - 44.6

Those are their SB... ....

Solomon 45.1

NAAA clearly doesn't believe in Solomon's talent as much as they do in Quow's... He ran a horrible leg in the heats and was still gifted with a leg in the finals... shows their faith in him and he rewarded them with the fastest first leg split in the finals... so i don't get the point in comparing if someone else was in which leg etc.. is pointless...   

If i remember correctly Quow put us in a good position after first leg in Pan Ams also ...so he has proven himself on the first leg and individually.... He literally ran 44.54.. .01 short of his fastest time in his career..and ppl moaning cause he ran a poor heat based on possibly fatigue ? he hasn't ran this fast in 6 years.. Lendore,Gordon,Cedenio has ......  Quow has shown he has the strength and will power to challenge and keep up with these guys after 10 years competing.. that should be applauded....

Let's no forget for the past 2 National Champs... NAAA adds and fans didn't pick him as a favorite to win the 400m titles and he is 2 times reigning champ..... let the sink in your thoughts... he is EVERGREEN.

Offline Socapro

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #315 on: September 02, 2015, 06:11:34 PM »
HA ppl knowledge so LITTLE (SOCAPRO) that u comparing a first leg split of 44.9 to a 44.5 leg split of another leg ? it's completely off... first leg has to go in the blocks.. while the other legs have a running start which can give u a .50 to 1 second advantage on the other 3 legs compared to the 1st leg..

 44.9 on a first leg basically means u ran that in an open 400... other legs split cant be compared to it... EDUCATED YOURSELF SOCAPRO...

44.8 by deon in the finals and 44.5 by jarrin in the heats, if that was  on a first let would have probably been 45.0/2

You are not saying anything that I don't already know.
If you had read my posts properly you would have seen that the TTO team I would have selected for the 4x4 Final if it was down to me would have featured:-
1st leg Lalonde Gordon; 2nd leg Jarrin Solomon; 3rd leg Machel Cedenio; 4th leg Deon Lendore.

Notice that my selection does not place Solomon or even Lendore to run the 1st leg as I like to run athletes to their strengths.

Based upon how Quow and Lalonde Gordon ran in the 4x4 Heats I was convinced that Lalonde could give us a faster 1st leg from the blocks in the 4x4 final and that Solomon could run as good or a faster 2nd leg in the final based upon him being fresher than Quow. Lendore also proved in the Heats that he was capable of just as good a 3rd or 4th leg in the 4x4 final and of course a rested Cedenio in the 4x4 Heats should be able to give us a great 3rd leg or anchor.

As it is I am satisfied with how all our selected quarter-milers ran in the 4x4 final but still believe we could have ran the USA closer for gold had we gone with my team in the final that includes Solomon on 2nd leg.

Well done to the guys anyway on the World silver and I think next year for Rio we are capable of mining gold if the team is rotated according to the strengths of our top quarter-milers and who is the freshest and how well they perform in the 4x4 Heats.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Socapro

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #316 on: September 02, 2015, 06:19:58 PM »
You lack a lot knowledge.. actually GO CHECK THE OFFICIAL SPLITS socapro.. quow handed off the baton in 6th place in the heats... not last..... so im confused how u said solomon moved up to 6th.. so how much ground did he actually make up ...

We don't need to argue just use your eyes and look at the race video of the 4x4 Heats.

USA 2:58.13 Q, TTO Q, JAM Q, Men's 4x400m Heat 2 World Champs 2015
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/zhrZiYnzkSM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/zhrZiYnzkSM</a>
Team TTO running order: Renny Quow, Jarrin Solomon, Deon Lendore and Lalonde Gordon

Legs assessment: Weak 1st leg from Quow 45.9; Strong 2nd leg from Solomon 44.5; Strong 3rd leg from Lendore 44.56; Excellent 4th leg from Gordon 43.82.

Quow handed the baton off in almost last position slightly before the team in lane 9 which was last at the first exchange in lanes. Solomon moved us up from there to 6th position on his leg and then Lendore moved us up from 6th to 3rd position on the 3rd leg while Lalonde Gordon managed to move us up to 2nd position just at the finish line when Francis of JA slowed at the finish line.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 06:00:04 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline TheCarterFilez

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #317 on: September 02, 2015, 06:23:08 PM »
Everything you are saying are based on hopes... and fantasties.. and dreams... no one knows what would have happened or predict who would have ran what in the finals... which is why ppl are telling u its pointless to compare or sugggest if someone ran it would have been better.  Based upon the 45.9 Quow ran in the heats.. did anyone expect him to run 44.9 in the finals an entire second faster ? NO ... so u can't predict what will happen or would have happened its pointless.... As for u saying we could have won Gold.. Lashawn's style and Cedenio's style of running is completely different.. Lashawn is 43.6 at his best... Cedenio is 44.3... Even if we gave Cedenio a 40m lead opposed to the 5-10m lead he got... there is no telling that Cedenio would have beaten Lashawn... how many athletes have beaten lashawn on an achor ? even the ones who had a big lead on anchor ? I'll wait for that response ...

Had we gone with your team in the finals ? ahhahah hilarious... ok COACH !!! LOL

Offline TheCarterFilez

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #318 on: September 02, 2015, 06:26:18 PM »
I am not watching video footage sir lol....  im using the official splits.. It seems u only wanna use the official splits when it benefits u .. hilarious...

Offline TheCarterFilez

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #319 on: September 02, 2015, 06:29:05 PM »
Michael Johnson said the order the TTO men in was the correct order ... while u have a different order you think would have been better... Hmm wonder who we should listen to...... Tough decisions... you guys accolades are so evenly matched... lol.

Offline Socapro

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #320 on: September 02, 2015, 06:30:06 PM »
Everything you are saying are based on hopes... and fantasties.. and dreams... no one knows what would have happened or predict who would have ran what in the finals... which is why ppl are telling u its pointless to compare or sugggest if someone ran it would have been better.  Based upon the 45.9 Quow ran in the heats.. did anyone expect him to run 44.9 in the finals an entire second faster ? NO ... so u can't predict what will happen or would have happened its pointless.... As for u saying we could have won Gold.. Lashawn's style and Cedenio's style of running is completely different.. Lashawn is 43.6 at his best... Cedenio is 44.3... Even if we gave Cedenio a 40m lead opposed to the 5-10m lead he got... there is no telling that Cedenio would have beaten Lashawn... how many athletes have beaten lashawn on an achor ? even the ones who had a big lead on anchor ? I'll wait for that response ...

Had we gone with your team in the finals ? ahhahah hilarious... ok COACH !!! LOL

You seem to love to fight talk. I said I was satisfied with how our guys ran in the 4x4 Final but I still believe that my team playing to the individual strengths of our quarter-milers if selected could have ran a bit faster time and given USA a closer run for gold.

My assessment is based upon my belief that Lalonde Gordon would have given us a stronger first leg than Quow did in the final and that a fresh Solomon would have given us a stronger 2nd leg than a tired Quow would. My argument is based on logic but no need to hurt your head because I am satisfied with how everyone performed in the final and we did mine silver behind the USA.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Socapro

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #321 on: September 02, 2015, 06:33:05 PM »
I am not watching video footage sir lol....  im using the official splits.. It seems u only wanna use the official splits when it benefits u .. hilarious...

You do seem to love to fight talk my friend. I did say I was satisfied with how our selected 4x4 team performed in the final but still believe we could have ran USA closer with my team running in the order listed and playing to everyone’s strengths. Better luck next time.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline TheCarterFilez

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #322 on: September 02, 2015, 06:34:20 PM »
If logic was used all the time to decide how someone would perform in the finals.... then betting on races/sports would be so much easier. lol

Offline Socapro

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #323 on: September 02, 2015, 06:37:34 PM »
Everything you are saying are based on hopes... and fantasties.. and dreams... no one knows what would have happened or predict who would have ran what in the finals... which is why ppl are telling u its pointless to compare or sugggest if someone ran it would have been better.  Based upon the 45.9 Quow ran in the heats.. did anyone expect him to run 44.9 in the finals an entire second faster ? NO ... so u can't predict what will happen or would have happened its pointless.... As for u saying we could have won Gold.. Lashawn's style and Cedenio's style of running is completely different.. Lashawn is 43.6 at his best... Cedenio is 44.3... Even if we gave Cedenio a 40m lead opposed to the 5-10m lead he got... there is no telling that Cedenio would have beaten Lashawn... how many athletes have beaten lashawn on an achor ? even the ones who had a big lead on anchor ? I'll wait for that response ...

Had we gone with your team in the finals ? ahhahah hilarious... ok COACH !!! LOL

You seem to love to fight talk. I said I was satisfied with how our guys ran in the 4x4 Final but I still believe that my team playing to the individual strengths of our quarter-milers if selected could have ran a bit faster time and given USA a closer run for gold.

My assessment is based upon my belief that Lalonde Gordon would have given us a stronger first leg than Quow did in the final and that a fresh Solomon would have given us a stronger 2nd leg than a tired Quow would. My argument is based on logic but no need to hurt your head because I am satisfied with how everyone performed in the final and we did mine silver behind the USA.

I live in London and followed the BBC commentary with MJ on the panel and never heard him say such. Bring the video quote.
I suspect that you are bored and trying to fight talk because you don't have much else to do?
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Socapro

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #324 on: September 02, 2015, 06:42:06 PM »
If logic was used all the time to decide how someone would perform in the finals.... then betting on races/sports would be so much easier. lol

At least I explained the logic behind why I would have picked Solomon to run the 2nd leg and given Lalonde Gordon the 1st leg in the 4x4 final.

Now that you understand the logic hopefully you can stop misconstruing my argument and move on.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline TheCarterFilez

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #325 on: September 02, 2015, 07:48:56 PM »
who said anything about BBC maam ? lol he said it on twitter... CASE CLOSED...  You're right.. I am bored lol.



Michael JohnsonVerified account
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Michael Johnson retweeted IAAF

Keep your eye on Trinidad. That's a good lineup! And thats the right way to line them up too. US should take Gold. 



Offline jusbless

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #326 on: September 02, 2015, 08:08:47 PM »
Socapro. I know you are a moderator but your judgement seems to be clouded when it comes to Jarrin Solomon. Plus your logic seem to waver with time. As I can recall you calling for the replacement of lalonde on first leg duties due to his poor showing running first leg in relays. You suggested moving quow to first and putting lalonde second. Now for the sake of argument you are saying lalonde would of run a faster first leg. Tell me in all the relays we have seen lalonde run that him running first leg was impressive. Be consistent with your analogies. I have to agree with carterz file. The basis of your argument lack credibility. For instance in World relays Jarrin ran a superb semifinal but come the finals he did not produce. Yet you basically guaranteeing he would of run  fast leg. How can that be logical. Just for the record can you point me to the stats in a meet where Solomon clock both 44.5 seconds on a relay leg in semis and final. I am in no way trying to show you up.I am just trying to get a fair assessment. If Bledman or Darrel Brown had set they had plan to run 9.6 s at worlds would you believe them or would you state based on what you have seen from them that it is not possible. Solomon is fifth best 400m runner and is nearly a whole half second away from the quartet. This whole argument makes no sense as Solomon is in a lower class.

Offline Socapro

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #327 on: September 03, 2015, 12:34:22 AM »
who said anything about BBC maam ? lol he said it on twitter... CASE CLOSED...  You're right.. I am bored lol.



Michael JohnsonVerified account
‏@MJGold

Michael Johnson retweeted IAAF

Keep your eye on Trinidad. That's a good lineup! And thats the right way to line them up too. US should take Gold. 


You are very gullible. MJ is American and is a biased USA supporter especially when he tweets on his twitter account where he is not obliged to be neutral.
If MJ was so confident that USA should take gold when he saw T&T's line-up then by logic it means he was confident that T&T was not a threat to winning gold in front the USA with the way we lined-up our team.

At any rate I am quite confident I know more about the ability of our local TTO quarter-milers from following their careers from youth level to senior level than MJ does and with that knowledge I can make a good judgement on their individual strengths and weaknesses and the best order to line them up in a 4x4 final to suit their individual strengths.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 12:43:11 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Socapro

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #328 on: September 03, 2015, 12:52:02 AM »
Socapro. I know you are a moderator but your judgement seems to be clouded when it comes to Jarrin Solomon. Plus your logic seem to waver with time. As I can recall you calling for the replacement of lalonde on first leg duties due to his poor showing running first leg in relays. You suggested moving quow to first and putting lalonde second. Now for the sake of argument you are saying lalonde would of run a faster first leg. Tell me in all the relays we have seen lalonde run that him running first leg was impressive. Be consistent with your analogies. I have to agree with carterz file. The basis of your argument lack credibility. For instance in World relays Jarrin ran a superb semifinal but come the finals he did not produce. Yet you basically guaranteeing he would of run  fast leg. How can that be logical. Just for the record can you point me to the stats in a meet where Solomon clock both 44.5 seconds on a relay leg in semis and final. I am in no way trying to show you up.I am just trying to get a fair assessment. If Bledman or Darrel Brown had set they had plan to run 9.6 s at worlds would you believe them or would you state based on what you have seen from them that it is not possible. Solomon is fifth best 400m runner and is nearly a whole half second away from the quartet. This whole argument makes no sense as Solomon is in a lower class.

Use your intelligence nah man?
Earlier this season in May at World Relays when Lalonde was rusty and not in good form he was a liability on the first leg in the Final because he placed us in an uphill battle to get us into medal contention after the first leg.
When Lalonde is in good form there is no one on our TTO team who can give us a better 1st leg to set up our 4x4 team for a good time and medal contention. However when Lalonde is not in form he can be a liability on the first leg by leaving the other 3 guys running 2nd, 3rd & 4th legs with too much ground to make up for us to challenge for a medal.
How Lalonde performed on the 1st leg at World Relays earlier this year in the Final was a good example of this which is the main reason why we did not medal at the 2015 World Relays in the Men's 4x4.
Unlike you guys I pick my team based on an athlete’s latest form rather than just on their name and reputation.

PS:
Btw I would never suggest putting Lalonde on 1st or 2nd leg if he is clearly not in good form like he was at World Relays earlier this year in May when his outdoor season just started.
Bring the quote of me saying that it was better to put Lalonde on the 2nd leg rather than on the 1st leg!
What I most likely would have suggested is that we put Quow on 1st leg, Solomon on 2nd leg, Lalonde on 3rd leg and Cedenio on 4th leg if I believed that Lalonde was rusty and not in good form early in the season. I always view Solomon as a good reliable bet for running 2nd leg where you need someone to establish your team in a medal position because Solomon is an aggressive relay runner who will ensure he goes out hard enough to keep his position if he receives the baton in one of the top 3 positions on the 2nd leg before the athletes break out of their team's designated starting lanes to run on the inside lanes.

And btw you wanted an example of when Solomon ran solid relay legs for us in both the Heats/Semi-Finals and the Final. Well Solomon did so this year at the Pan Am Games where we won gold, last year at the Commonwealth Games where we won bronze and at also at World Relays 2014 where we won bronze.

Here are the videos of those Finals and please note that Solomon ran just as strongly on the legs he ran in the 4x4 Heats of those Championships.

Men's 4 x 400m Relay Heat 3 IAAF World Relays 2014
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/QEEgaEGMInk" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/QEEgaEGMInk</a>
Team TTO running order: Lalonde Gordon, Renny Quow, Machel Cedenio & Jarrin Solomon

USA wins Men's 4x400m Final 2:57.25 WL BAH 2nd TRI 3rd IAAF World Relays 2014
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/SCMrtI5nW58" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/SCMrtI5nW58</a>
Team TTO running order: Lalonde Gordon, Renny Quow, Machel Cedenio & Jarrin Solomon

4x400m Mens Final - Commonwealth Games 2014 (TTO bronze!)
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/QJ4qYhHSqx0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/QJ4qYhHSqx0</a>
Team TTO running order: Lalonde Gordon, Jarrin Solomon, Renny Quow & Zwede Hewitt

Men's 4 x 400m Relay Final - Pan Am Games - Toronto 2015 (TTO gold!)
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/YJ5fYq39NuA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/YJ5fYq39NuA</a>
Team TTO running order: Renny Quow, Jarrin Solomon, Emnuel Mayers & Machel Cedenio
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 06:16:05 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline andre samuel

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Re: 15th IAAF World Championships 2015: 22nd~30th August (Beijing, PR of China)
« Reply #329 on: September 03, 2015, 01:52:07 AM »
The logic being displayed by Socapro confuses me. 

You champion the cause for Solomon based on his 2nd place finish at the National Championships so u think that he should have run in the final in front of the man who placed 1st at the very same Championships???

The four men in the final are easily our best 400m runners. 

Solomon had his chance at the Pan Am Games to show form and didnt. 

Lendore, Cedenio and Gordon are our top 3 400m runners.  The final spot is between Quow and Solomon and that in itself is an easy choice.

Let me reiterate that Solomon is a very important member of our 400m squad, but there can be no sentiment where the individual is concerned.

Andre Samuel, who controls all the rights to the phrase "ah love it!!"

 

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