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Author Topic: IAAF World Indoor Championships 2016: 17th~20th March (Portland, Oregon, USA)  (Read 8362 times)

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Offline jusbless

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But that interview was kicks. Ade talking about Rio but him being there is very unlikely. At present he will not even make the finals at national. Unless he knows something we don't know

Offline Socapro

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But that interview was kicks. Ade talking about Rio but him being there is very unlikely. At present he will not even make the finals at national. Unless he knows something we don't know

Ade is being optimistic about going to Rio as part of the 4x4 team! Nothing wrong with that once he can make the 400m Olympic standard and can be in the top 6 at National Trials come June.

Don't forget that Ade has a bronze medal from the last Olympics and ran in the 4x4 Olympic final. However I believe in 2012 he was in the top 6 at National Trials so got selected to the team.
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline gawd on pitch

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Solomon ran the best leg. The other 3 did well. Ade needs to run low 45 to be considered. We have 5 sub 45 men. Then it's a toss up between Ade, Richards and probably Jehue.

Whatever happened to Carlyle Roudette?

Offline jusbless

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Gawd on pitch what you smoking. You can't be talking about the finals. In the semis that statement was correct but not in the finals. He actually ran a weak first leg. He runs better from a standing position. He should never run a first leg in a relay

Offline Socapro

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Solomon ran the best leg. The other 3 did well. Ade needs to run low 45 to be considered. We have 5 sub 45 men. Then it's a toss up between Ade, Richards and probably Jehue.

Whatever happened to Carlyle Roudette?

Roudette ran an indoor race earlier in the season and is probably in training. He told me on facebook that he would be coming home for National Trials in June to try to qualify for the 6-man 4x4 Relay pool to Rio.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 07:30:58 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline jusbless

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Roudette was injured last year. He is up and running this year

Offline jusbless

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Socapro is gawd on pitch actually Jarrin Solomon. I wonder

Offline Socapro

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Socapro is gawd on pitch actually Jarrin Solomon. I wonder

I think Solomon is one of our most consistent and reliable 4x4 relay runners so I won't condemn gawd on pitch for his opinion.

Solomon is best suited to running the 2nd leg in my opinion but based on how he saved us in the 4x4 Heats I can understand why he was placed on the 1st leg to try to get us off to a strong start in the final.
I think Solomon may have suffered a bit in the 4x4 Final from the energy that he expended in the 4x4 Heats but still managed to give us a decent leg considering the major disadvantage of us starting in lane one.

If Quow was in the squad I would have gone with Quow on 1st leg in the final, Solomon on 2nd leg, L Gordon on 3rd leg and Lendore on 4th and we could have won gold given if we had a better lane than lane one but it was always going to be difficult from lane 1 to win gold. However we had to work with who we had in our 5-man squad when we were allowed to come with an extra man in a 6-man squad but chose not to.

On a related note Machel Cedenio did not run at his best in the 4x4 Heats and was manners by Chris Brown on the last leg. I suspect that Machel had never ran indoors before and was also disadvantaged by his tall height which is not best suited to running indoors. 
I am curious as to why Machel did not run in the 4x4 final but my suspicion was that he decided he was not yet at his best and would give Ade Alleyne-Forte who has a bit more to prove based on his slower PB, a chance to run again in the final.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 08:33:43 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline gawd on pitch

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Socapro is gawd on pitch actually Jarrin Solomon. I wonder

I think Solomon is one of our most consistent and reliable 4x4 relay runners so I won't condemn gawd on pitch for his opinion.

Solomon is best suited to running the 2nd leg in my opinion but based on how he saved us in the 4x4 Heats I can understand why he was placed on the 1st leg to try to get us off to a strong start in the final.
I think Solomon may have suffered a bit in the 4x4 Final from the energy that he expended in the 4x4 Heats but still managed to give us a decent leg considering the major disadvantage of us starting in lane one.

If Quow was in the squad I would have gone with Quow on 1st leg in the final, Solomon on 2nd leg, L Gordon on 3rd leg and Lendore on 4th and we could have won gold given if we had a better lane than lane one but it was always going to be difficult from lane 1 to win gold. However we had to work with who we had in our 5-man squad when we were allowed to come with an extra man in a 6-man squad but chose not to.

On a related note Machel Cedenio did not run at his best in the 4x4 Heats and was manners by Chris Brown on the last leg. I suspect that Machel had never ran indoors before and was also disadvantaged by his tall height which is not best suited to running indoors. 
I am curious as to why Machel did not run in the 4x4 final but my suspicion was that he decided he was not yet at his best and would give Ade Alleyne-Forte who has a bit more to prove based on his slower PB, a chance to run again in the final.

Thanks Soca. Jusbless did not see it the way we did. Considering that the 1st lane is the hardest, Solomon did the best job considering the lane he was given. We seen how Lalonde ran the individual final in the 1st leg. I believe he ran 47+ .. I don't think Ade or Lendore would have handled that lane as good as Solo.

Jusbless, you know me long enough to know that I ain't Solomon. I had to laugh when you posted that.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 08:34:00 AM by gawd on pitch »

Offline Socapro

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Socapro is gawd on pitch actually Jarrin Solomon. I wonder

I think Solomon is one of our most consistent and reliable 4x4 relay runners so I won't condemn gawd on pitch for his opinion.

Solomon is best suited to running the 2nd leg in my opinion but based on how he saved us in the 4x4 Heats I can understand why he was placed on the 1st leg to try to get us off to a strong start in the final.
I think Solomon may have suffered a bit in the 4x4 Final from the energy that he expended in the 4x4 Heats but still managed to give us a decent leg considering the major disadvantage of us starting in lane one.

If Quow was in the squad I would have gone with Quow on 1st leg in the final, Solomon on 2nd leg, L Gordon on 3rd leg and Lendore on 4th and we could have won gold given if we had a better lane than lane one but it was always going to be difficult from lane 1 to win gold. However we had to work with who we had in our 5-man squad when we were allowed to come with an extra man in a 6-man squad but chose not to.

On a related note Machel Cedenio did not run at his best in the 4x4 Heats and was manners by Chris Brown on the last leg. I suspect that Machel had never ran indoors before and was also disadvantaged by his tall height which is not best suited to running indoors. 
I am curious as to why Machel did not run in the 4x4 final but my suspicion was that he decided he was not yet at his best and would give Ade Alleyne-Forte who has a bit more to prove based on his slower PB, a chance to run again in the final.

Thanks Soca. Jusbless did not see it the way we did. Considering that the 1st lane is the hardest, Solomon did the best job considering the lane he was given. We seen how Lalonde ran the individual final in the 1st leg. I believe he ran 47+ .. I don't think Ade or Lendore would have handled that lane as good as Solo.

Jusbless, you know me long enough to know that I ain't Solomon. I had to laugh when you posted that.


Lalonde is too tall to run a decent time from lane one on an Indoor track so going with Solomon (who is on the shorter side) on the 1st leg in the 4x4 Final was was indeed the best choice. I am happy with Solomon's performance especially as we still managed to mine bronze from lane one which is pretty good going.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 08:50:18 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline Socapro

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Here are 400m PBs for our other top quarter-milers outside of the top 5 (Cedenio, Lendore, L. Gordon, Quow & Solomon) who all have sub-45 PB's set within last couple years:-

Zwede Hewitt 45.51 set in 2011
Carlyle Roudette 45.66 set in 2014
Jereem Richards 45.91 set in 2015

Ade Alleyne-Forte 46.13 set in 2013
Jehue Gordon 46.43 set in 2010
Jacob St Claire 46.73 set in 2015

Notice that Jehue Gordon 400m PB is still in the 46.xx band and that everyone else except St Clair currently have better 400m PBs than Jehue.

Also note that the Olympic standard is 45.40 and that Hewitt, Roudette and Richards are all nearer to the Olympic standard than Jehue so based upon that info alone I can't see Jehue being part of our 4x4 relay pool unless one of our top 6 quarter-milers ahead of him get injured in Rio and Jehue is brought in as a last minute replacement because he is already part of our Olympic team as a 400m Hurdler.

I don't think anyone should be included in our 4x4 relay pool this year unless they have made the Olympic standard of 45.40 during the 2016 season and also place in the top 6 at National Trials.
We now have a world class Men's 4x4 relay squad and need to keep to these high standards if we want to mine gold in the 4x4 final in Rio and beyond.
This will be the case especially if one, two or all of our top 3 quarter-milers also make it to the 400m Olympic Final as we would need to rest them in the 4x4 Heats depending on the Olympic events schedule and still be able to win our Olympic 4x4 Heat without the participation of one, two or all three of our top 3 quarter-milers.

For argument sake lets say Cedenio, Lendore, L. Gordon, Quow, Solomon & Carlyle Roudette are our top 6 at National Trials in June and all run the Olympic standard of 45.40 during the 2016 season and so get selected to our 4x4 relay pool to Rio and the top 3 at national Trials who get selected to run the individual 400m are Cedenio, Lendore, L. Gordon and they all make the 400m Final.

I would rest all three of our 400m finalists in the 4x4 Heats and would bring in Jehue Gordon and run this team:-
1st leg Quow, 2nd leg Solomon, 3rd leg Roudette and 4th leg Jehue Gordon;

In the 4x4 Final I would go with our A+ squad:-
1st leg Quow, 2nd leg L. Gordon, 3rd leg Lendore and 4th leg Cedenio;

Whoever runs the last leg should naturally be whoever wins the 400m Final at National Trials.
In addition that person will need to get their 400m PB down to near 44 flat this season to be able to match the likes of Merritt of the USA on the last leg of the 4x4 and so maintain any lead that we may have on the USA at the end of the 3rd leg.

With this in mind I am hoping that all three of our top quarter-milers who will represent us in Rio this year reduce their 400m PB and that at least one of them break the current national record of 44.21 set by Ian Morris back in 1992.

I would also suggest that the NAAA includes a motivational figure and coach like Ian Morris as one of our relay coaching staff this year if we are seriously about maximizing our chances of mining gold in the 4x4 in Rio.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 09:29:49 AM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline gawd on pitch

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Here are 400m PBs for our other top quarter-milers outside of the top 5 (Cedenio, Lendore, L. Gordon, Quow & Solomon) who all have sub-45 PB's set within last couple years:-

Zwede Hewitt 45.51 set in 2011
Carlyle Roudette 45.66 set in 2014
Jereem Richards 45.91 set in 2015

Ade Alleyne-Forte 46.13 set in 2013
Jehue Gordon 46.43 set in 2010
Jacob St Claire 46.73 set in 2015

Notice that Jehue Gordon 400m PB is still in the 46.xx band and that everyone else except St Clair currently have better 400m PBs than Jehue.

Also note that the Olympic standard is 45.40 and that Hewitt, Roudette and Richards are all nearer to the Olympic standard than Jehue so based upon that info alone I can't see Jehue being part of our 4x4 relay pool unless one of our top 6 quarter-milers ahead of him get injured in Rio and Jehue is brought in as a last minute replacement because he is already part of our Olympic team as a 400m Hurdler.

I don't think anyone should be included in our 4x4 relay pool this year unless they have made the Olympic standard of 45.40 during the 2016 season and also place in the top 6 at National Trials.
We now have a world class Men's 4x4 relay squad and need to keep to these high standards if we want to mine gold in the 4x4 final in Rio and beyond.
This will be the case especially if one, two or all of our top 3 quarter-milers also make it to the 400m Olympic Final as we would need to rest them in the 4x4 Heats depending on the Olympic events schedule and still be able to win our Olympic 4x4 Heat without the participation of one, two or all three of our top 3 quarter-milers.

For argument sake lets say Cedenio, Lendore, L. Gordon, Quow, Solomon & Carlyle Roudette are our top 6 at National Trials in June and all run the Olympic standard of 45.40 during the 2016 season and so get selected to our 4x4 relay pool to Rio and the top 3 at national Trials who get selected to run the individual 400m are Cedenio, Lendore, L. Gordon and they all make the 400m Final.

I would rest all three of our 400m finalists in the 4x4 Heats and would bring in Jehue Gordon and run this team:-
1st leg Quow, 2nd leg Solomon, 3rd leg Roudette and 4th leg Jehue Gordon;

In the 4x4 Final I would go with our A+ squad:-
1st leg Quow, 2nd leg L. Gordon, 3rd leg Lendore and 4th leg Cedenio;

Whoever runs the last leg should naturally be whoever wins the 400m Final at National Trials.
In addition that person will need to get their 400m PB down to near 44 flat this season to be able to match the likes of Merritt of the USA on the last leg of the 4x4 and so maintain any lead that we may have on the USA at the end of the 3rd leg.

With this in mind I am hoping that all three of our top quarter-milers who will represent us in Rio this year reduce their 400m PB and that at least one of them break the current national record of 44.21 set by Ian Morris back in 1992.

I would also suggest that the NAAA includes a motivational figure and coach like Ian Morris as one of our relay coaching staff this year if we are seriously about maximizing our chances of mining gold in the 4x4 in Rio.

Good post there Soca. I was thinking the exact same thing about the relays.

I think Mr Morris's record will be broken this year. My guess is either Cedenio or Lendore. Gordon will probably come very close.

Offline STMB

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Socapro - great points.

On the relay alternate strategy, I am fairly sure you cannot rest as many as 3 of your relay squad intended to compete in a final, (a maximum of 2, given the allowance for 2 alternates to run the heats). Each team has to use resources that have been registered (presented on the team roster by event) as part of the pool of 6 athletes for the relay. That paperwork is submitted for verification once teams arrive at the Olympic village.

So even in a very rare case where there are multiple injuries impacting a team, I do not think you can bring in an unregistered 200m, 400m hurdler or 800m runner at the last minute to compete; the team will have to forfeit.

Offline Socapro

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Socapro - great points.

On the relay alternate strategy, I am fairly sure you cannot rest as many as 3 of your relay squad intended to compete in a final, (a maximum of 2, given the allowance for 2 alternates to run the heats). Each team has to use resources that have been registered (presented on the team roster by event) as part of the pool of 6 athletes for the relay. That paperwork is submitted for verification once teams arrive at the Olympic village.

So even in a very rare case where there are multiple injuries impacting a team, I do not think you can bring in an unregistered 200m, 400m hurdler or 800m runner at the last minute to compete; the team will have to forfeit.

I am not totally sure but I believe that Jenhue was brought in in the past as part of the 4x4 relay pool when one of the regular members got injured.
Failing any injuries and the impressive scenraio of all 3 of our 400m men in Rio also making the Final I suspect that we will be allowed to run Jehue in the 4x4 relay heats if we need to rest all three of our 400m finalists depending on the schedule. But then again running in the 4x4 heats could also negatively affect Jehue's preparations for the 400m Hurdles Final if Jehue qualifies for the 400m Hurdles Final and the 400m Hurdles final come close after the 4x4 Heats.

Based upon the very high standard that the 400m has elevated to since last year where our Olympic bronze medalist Lalonde Gordon was unable to make it to the World Athletics 400m Final in Beijing, I would be pleasantly surprised if all 3 of our top quarter-milers make it to the 400m final in Rio.
So the most likely scenario is that at least one of our top 3 quarter-milers will not make it to the Olympic 400m final and will be fresh enough and available to run in the 4x4 Heats so we should be able to manage without the need to draft in Jehue into the 4x4 squad.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 01:34:16 PM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)

Offline STMB

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Jehue was most likely already selected as a contingent alternate in that instance.

I cannot remember when T&T has had the luxury of naming 6 solid 400m sprinters to a team, usually it's been just the top 4 selected from trials, with potential alternates drawn not from the 400m but from other team selectees in other events  such as the 200, 800, 400 hurdles. This was primarily due to funding limitations.

When I represented that was certainly the case. Once at the games village the team manager had to declare the roster by event to the games officials. I remember I had to go with him in one case in a Spanish-speaking country because I had some fluency.

Here is an excerpt from USATF Rules concerning relay pool declarations. I expect it's the same or similar for most nations:
Declarations
In <GAMES LOCATION>, there will be a formal declaration form for each athlete to sign, indicating that if he or she is selected for a team (including alternates), he/she will be at the track ready, willing, and able to run.  If a commitment is made and an athlete is selected as a relay team member or alternate, it is expected that they will adjust their travel schedules to be at the venue on <EXPECTED DATE>.  Declarations are due to the Team Manager by <TIME OF DAY> on <DEADLINE DATE>. Athlete declarations can be withdrawn any time up to two hours before the filing time; otherwise all selected runners (and alternates) are expected to be at the venue ready, willing, and able to run.

I've never even seen the US use 3 alternates in the heats, and they've on many occasions had 3 finalists, in some cases gold/silver/bronze medallists in Olympic Games and World Champs 400m.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 01:07:13 PM by STMB »

Offline Socapro

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Jehue was most likely already selected as a contingent alternate in that instance.

I cannot remember when T&T has had the luxury of naming 6 solid 400m sprinters to a team, usually it's been just the top 4 selected from trials, with potential alternates drawn not from the 400m but from other team selectees in other events  such as the 200, 800, 400 hurdles. This was primarily due to funding limitations.

When I represented that was certainly the case. Once at the games village the team manager had to declare the roster by event to the games officials. I remember I had to go with him in one case in a Spanish-speaking country because I had some fluency.

Here is an excerpt from USATF Rules concerning relay pool declarations. I expect it's the same or similar for most nations:
Declarations
In <GAMES LOCATION>, there will be a formal declaration form for each athlete to sign, indicating that if he or she is selected for a team (including alternates), he/she will be at the track ready, willing, and able to run.  If a commitment is made and an athlete is selected as a relay team member or alternate, it is expected that they will adjust their travel schedules to be at the venue on <EXPECTED DATE>.  Declarations are due to the Team Manager by <TIME OF DAY> on <DEADLINE DATE>. Athlete declarations can be withdrawn any time up to two hours before the filing time; otherwise all selected runners (and alternates) are expected to be at the venue ready, willing, and able to run.

I've never even seen the US use 3 alternates in the heats, and they've on many occasions had 3 finalists, in some cases gold/silver/bronze medallists in Olympic Games and World Champs 400m.

OK cool and thanks for your professionally informed feedback on this topic.

Its good to look at all the possibilities in advance and plan how to manage them to maximize our chances of mining gold. However as I said based upon the very high standard that was set for the Men's 400m last year at the World Athletics Champs in Beijing in which our Olympic bronze medalist Lalonde Gordon was unable to make it to the World Athletics 400m Final, I would be surprised if all 3 of our top quarter-milers qualify for the final of the 400m in Rio even if they all run sub-45 times in the Heats or Semis.

The most likely scenario is that at least one of our top 3 quarter-milers will not qualify for the Olympic 400m final and will be fresh enough and available to run in both the 4x4 Heats and 4x4 Final. So in reality we should not be in need of a 3rd alternate who is not declared as a member of our 6-man 4x4 relay pool for Rio.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 01:55:59 PM by Socapro »
De higher a monkey climbs is de less his ass is on de line, if he works for FIFA that is! ;-)