November 19, 2018, 03:57:36 PM

Author Topic: Bias aganst College players  (Read 663 times)

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Offline vb

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Bias aganst College players
« on: September 07, 2018, 10:25:46 PM »
Mods merge this if you need to.
-------

I was speaking recently to people such as Ronnie Simmons, Graeme Rodriguez and Dexter Skeene. And they were adamant that during their time in the 80s and early 90s there was a bias against College players.

Simmons was more direct and said race was involved.

Although I agree with them. I am of the opinion that such is not the case today.
Bateau went to Fatima and I seem to see College grads getting their chance to train or play for the national team.

 I am from abroad but was curious to know what the local based think.

VB
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Offline amielisadore

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Re: Bias aganst College players
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2018, 04:07:44 AM »
Definitely don't think that's the case now. Bateau, Foncette (Fatima), Leston Paul, de Silva (CIC), Muckette, Abu Bakr (QRC), S. Winchester, Julien, Sadoo (Naps), Marshall, Jan, Carlos, Kenwyne, St Hillaire, Cato (St Anthonys). Possibly the largest feeder for current players though is that specific Mucurapo generation though - Molino, Joevin, Jomal, Hyland, Guerra, Alvin

Offline vb

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Re: Bias aganst College players
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2018, 05:24:59 AM »
Definitely don't think that's the case now. Bateau, Foncette (Fatima), Leston Paul, de Silva (CIC), Muckette, Abu Bakr (QRC), S. Winchester, Julien, Sadoo (Naps), Marshall, Jan, Carlos, Kenwyne, St Hillaire, Cato (St Anthonys). Possibly the largest feeder for current players though is that specific Mucurapo generation though - Molino, Joevin, Jomal, Hyland, Guerra, Alvin

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Offline Anbrat

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Re: Bias aganst College players
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2018, 07:19:00 AM »
Mods merge this if you need to.
-------

I was speaking recently to people such as Ronnie Simmons, Graeme Rodriguez and Dexter Skeene. And they were adamant that during their time in the 80s and early 90s there was a bias against College players.

Simmons was more direct and said race was involved.

Although I agree with them. I am of the opinion that such is not the case today.
Bateau went to Fatima and I seem to see College grads getting their chance to train or play for the national team.

 I am from abroad but was curious to know what the local based think.

VB

Did he clarify what he meant by "race was involved"?

Offline Deeks

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Re: Bias aganst College players
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2018, 04:36:07 PM »
From what i saw in my time, the college players would get the edge. From the time the colleges league was formed in 62, their players were in the limelight, so they got first preference. I was pretty obvious. The media light was on them. But there were guys who did not play intercol or who went to other secondary or private schools who made the national team. I have some names, allyuh could correct me if I am wrong. Buggy Haynes, Selwyn Murren, Steve Khan, Henry Denny, Selris Figaro, Bert Grell, Ulric Boxhill, Lincoln Delandro, Sharkey Henry, Winston "Bee" Philips, Charlie Spooner, Max Mascal, Ear Carter(He went St. Bedes up St.John Rd and Progressive), Kendal Walkes(Progressive). There are some I can't remember. I can't remember those mentioned above playing intercol. But when the league started to expand, I think that there was an emphasis to look at players away from the CFL founders. But there appeared to be bias  against Rodriguez, Skeene, Rocke and some other players from the "tranditional college schools". Even my cousin, who was a teacher in Mucurapo, said that Graham should be called up for the national team.

Now the league is back to the traditional national division structure, rather than the zone structure. The zone had "water down" the league. The talent was spread. Interest was falling. So they readjusted. But with this so called pro-league, the U-19 football is in a state of flux. Their desire to restrict school influence would not help their product. Even if they had restrict the "super stars", inter-col would go one. And the clubs will continue to "raid" the school for players.  The clubs have to form their own schools to pull the players away. They don't have the resources to do that.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 04:38:09 PM by Deeks »

Offline spideybuff

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Re: Bias aganst College players
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2018, 04:30:02 AM »
But with this so called pro-league, the U-19 football is in a state of flux. Their desire to restrict school influence would not help their product. Even if they had restrict the "super stars", inter-col would go one. And the clubs will continue to "raid" the school for players.  The clubs have to form their own schools to pull the players away. They don't have the resources to do that.

I could be wrong, but I doubt there are any children on a premier league schools team that was not with a club before. Maybe when it was still zonal and "watered down", but not now. The schools are the ones who would be raiding the clubs to get the best players in the school.
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Offline Deeks

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Re: Bias aganst College players
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2018, 08:03:31 AM »
But with this so called pro-league, the U-19 football is in a state of flux. Their desire to restrict school influence would not help their product. Even if they had restrict the "super stars", inter-col would go one. And the clubs will continue to "raid" the school for players.  The clubs have to form their own schools to pull the players away. They don't have the resources to do that.

I could be wrong, but I doubt there are any children on a premier league schools team that was not with a club before. Maybe when it was still zonal and "watered down", but not now. The schools are the ones who would be raiding the clubs to get the best players in the school.

You could be right. But I will have to ask people home how it really playing out. I have heard of some cases where kids are only in classes for the football season. If true, that should be deemed illegal. The school is complicit in fraud. On the other hand, if the kids are playing for clubs after inter-col and NOT going to classes, that is equally bad also. Are the kids studying for their final exams. Do the clubs have tutors to assist them. I don't know or don't think so.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 03:59:42 PM by Deeks »

Offline Anbrat

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Re: Bias aganst College players
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2018, 06:21:28 PM »
Mods merge this if you need to.
-------

I was speaking recently to people such as Ronnie Simmons, Graeme Rodriguez and Dexter Skeene. And they were adamant that during their time in the 80s and early 90s there was a bias against College players.

Simmons was more direct and said race was involved.

Although I agree with them. I am of the opinion that such is not the case today.
Bateau went to Fatima and I seem to see College grads getting their chance to train or play for the national team.

 I am from abroad but was curious to know what the local based think.

VB

Did he clarify what he meant by "race was involved"?

In the absence of clarification, one has to assume that he did not.

Offline vb

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Re: Bias aganst College players
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2018, 02:27:48 PM »
Mods merge this if you need to.
-------

I was speaking recently to people such as Ronnie Simmons, Graeme Rodriguez and Dexter Skeene. And they were adamant that during their time in the 80s and early 90s there was a bias against College players.

Simmons was more direct and said race was involved.

Although I agree with them. I am of the opinion that such is not the case today.
Bateau went to Fatima and I seem to see College grads getting their chance to train or play for the national team.

 I am from abroad but was curious to know what the local based think.

VB

Did he clarify what he meant by "race was involved"?

In the absence of clarification, one has to assume that he did not.

Sorry, assumed you saw the link to the story in another thread on this page.

https://vbhoolai.wixsite.com/hail-caribbeansport/ronald-simmons-football-fatima-trin
VITAMIN V...KEEPS THE LADIES HEALTHY...:-)

Offline Deeks

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Re: Bias aganst College players
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2018, 06:07:23 PM »
who was the national coach at that time.

Offline vb

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Re: Bias aganst College players
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2018, 09:32:34 PM »
who was the national coach at that time.

Good question but which "time"?

From '83-'85, I believe it was Jan Zchwarticus.
86-87, I have no idea.

88-89, Gally.
Alvin was there in 1990 and quite a few in the 90s. I believe Kenny Joseph (?) from 95-96.

In all fairness Zchwartics would not have known about the colege based in the US, he would have needed a scout.

More curiously, he coached ASL and somebody knew enough to at time bring down Chinas, Pollonais and Garnet Craig.

In the one match I saw them play for ASL (seperately) they didn't really shine, except Craig who scored a helluva goal vs Paulista Corinthian but that was the one game I missed live and only saw hightlights tv.

VB

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Offline Tallman

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Re: Bias aganst College players
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2018, 10:17:31 PM »
who was the national coach at that time.

Good question but which "time"?

From '83-'85, I believe it was Jan Zchwarticus.
86-87, I have no idea.

I don't know if Jan Zwartkruis ever coached T&T in an official match. However, Roderick Warner was the coach in 1984-85.
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Offline vb

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Re: Bias aganst College players
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2018, 12:32:45 AM »


who was the national coach at that time.

Good question but which "time"?

From '83-'85, I believe it was Jan Zchwarticus.
86-87, I have no idea.

I don't know if Jan Zwartkruis ever coached T&T in an official match. However, Roderick Warner was the coach in 1984-85.

Zchwarticus was the official Coach of ASL. However,  Arthur Suite allowed him to be "on loan" to the TTFA.

I canno remember all the games but I do remember in 84 TT losing I think to Swden 5-0.

VB
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Offline Anbrat

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Re: Bias aganst College players
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2018, 09:08:31 AM »
Mods merge this if you need to.
-------

I was speaking recently to people such as Ronnie Simmons, Graeme Rodriguez and Dexter Skeene. And they were adamant that during their time in the 80s and early 90s there was a bias against College players.

Simmons was more direct and said race was involved.

Although I agree with them. I am of the opinion that such is not the case today.
Bateau went to Fatima and I seem to see College grads getting their chance to train or play for the national team.

 I am from abroad but was curious to know what the local based think.

VB

Did he clarify what he meant by "race was involved"?

In the absence of clarification, one has to assume that he did not.

Sorry, assumed you saw the link to the story in another thread on this page.

https://vbhoolai.wixsite.com/hail-caribbeansport/ronald-simmons-football-fatima-trin

Thank you, VB.