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Offline ribbit

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #120 on: February 05, 2010, 01:36:46 PM »
de catholic church need some RICO charges.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 02:50:54 PM by ribbit »

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #121 on: February 05, 2010, 03:51:00 PM »
The Leaders of the Catholic from Pope on down should be charged with aiding and abetting and harboring criminals....simple

But the Prosecutors are also Catholic....so no dice there
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

Offline Deeks

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #122 on: February 07, 2010, 07:48:13 AM »
This is in today's guardian. Married men becomes Deacons.

http://guardian.co.tt/news/general/2010/02/07/married-men-become-deacons


Married men become deacons
...Crazy catholic among 20 ordained at RC Church
Anika Gumbs-Sandiford
Published: 7 Feb 2010
 
Twenty permanent deacons prostrate at the front of the
altar of the Cathedral of Immaculate Conception in
Port-of-Spain yesterday during their ordination. It was a
historic occasion as their ordination marked the first of
its kind in the local Roman Catholic Church.
Photo: Shirley Bahadur
Anika Gumbs-Sandiford
History has been created at the Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in Port-of-Spain with the ordination of 20 permanent deacons into the local Roman Catholic Church. The deacons, many of them married, accepted their vows before a packed congregation yesterday after undergoing a three-year diaconate programme. The diaconate is the first Sacrament of Orders in the Catholic Church. To be ordained a permanent deacon, married men must get consent from their wives before receiving the vocation. Unlike priests who are allowed to share in the governing office of the church, the vocation of a permanent deacon is to witness to evangelistic servanthood.

The vocation allows the permanent deacons to perform various services at the parish level such as baptism, funeral and assisting in marriages, however, they are not allowed to conduct the Holy Mass. As hundreds witnessed the historic event, many were moved to tears as the 20 men prostrated at the front of the altar as they accepted their vocation. Among them was comedian Sheldon Narine aka Crazy Catholic. In delivering the homily, Archbishop Edward J Gilbert urged the permanent deacons not be egotistical and let their vocation constantly reflect in their lives.

“In the past deacons had become too powerful. You must spread the word of the church. Use the ministry to unify and not divide the church. Do the will of God from your heart so you will be firmly rooted and grounded in faith,” Gilbert said. He also advised the deacons to ensure that their new responsibility is surrounded around their wives and families. “Your ministry has to be centred around them because they are the most important people in your lives.” Meanwhile, Gilbert also took the opportunity to applaud members of the faith who contributed to donations for Haiti following the catastrophic earthquake that struck three weeks ago. Gilbert said the church raised close to $2 million and counting.


Offline ribbit

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #123 on: February 08, 2010, 10:04:12 AM »
The Leaders of the Catholic from Pope on down should be charged with aiding and abetting and harboring criminals....simple

AMEN ... .ah mean cosign.

Offline ribbit

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Pope condemns child abuse as 'heinous crime'
« Reply #124 on: February 16, 2010, 12:54:52 PM »
more inaction. ah mean this feigned concern is worst than disgusting. why no censure from de catholic church? is funny (strange) de kind of people de catholic church ready to excommunicate (mother of 9-year old in brazil). like dey cyah clean up dey own yard with de same kokeyea broom ?



==


Pope condemns child abuse as 'heinous crime'


Rome, Italy (CNN) -- The sexual abuse of children is not just a "heinous crime" but a "grave sin" that offends God and wounds human dignity, Pope Benedict XVI said Tuesday after a two-day meeting with Irish Catholic bishops at the Vatican.

The weakening of faith has also been a "significant contributing factor" in the sexual abuse of minors, the pope said, adding that "current painful situation will not be resolved quickly."

The pope's comments came in a written Vatican statement at the end of the meeting, the largest one yet about the scandal that has rocked the church from Ireland to the Vatican and beyond.

A damning report by an independent Irish commission in November found the Catholic Church in Ireland had covered up the "widespread" abuse of children from 1975 to 2004.

It led to the resignation of four Irish bishops late last year and prompted the pope to say at the time he was "deeply disturbed and distressed" by the report's findings.

There was no discussion at the latest meeting about further resignations, said papal spokesman Father Federico Lombardi.

Those at the meeting this week "recognized that this grave crisis has led to a breakdown in trust in the church's leadership and has damaged (the church's) witness to the gospel and its moral teaching," the Vatican statement said.

"The bishops spoke frankly of the sense of pain and anger, betrayal, scandal and shame expressed to them on numerous occasions by those who had been abused," it said.

It said "significant measures have now been taken" to ensure the safety of children in the church.

"For his part, the Holy Father observed that the sexual abuse of children and young people is not only a heinous crime, but also a grave sin which offends God and wounds the dignity of the human person created in his image," the statement said.

The pope challenged the bishops to address past problems with "determination and resolve" and to face the current crisis with "honesty and courage."

"The Holy Father also pointed to the more general crisis of faith affecting the church and he linked that to the lack of respect for the human person, and how the weakening of faith has been a significant contributing factor in the phenomenon of the sexual abuse of minors," the statement said.

"He stressed the need for a deeper theological reflection on the whole issue, and called for an improved human, spiritual, academic and pastoral preparation both of candidates for the priesthood and religious life and of those already ordained and professed."

The pope wrote a pastoral letter to Irish Catholics to be issued during Lent, the 40-day period between Ash Wednesday, which happens tomorrow, and Easter, the Vatican said.

"The Holy Father has asked that this Lent be set aside as a time for imploring an outpouring of God's mercy and the holy spirit's gifts of holiness and strength upon the church in Ireland," the statement said.

At a Mass in Rome on Monday before meeting the pope, the Irish Catholic bishops prayed for the victims of the abuse in Ireland, said their spokesman, Martin Long.

One of the bishops said Sunday that the church in Ireland had been badly damaged by the revelations of abuse and cover-up.

"I would admit quite frankly what everybody else knows, shouted from house tops, that the church has been seriously wounded," Bishop Joseph Duffy said in Rome.

"This has done an immense damage to the authority of the church as the mouthpiece of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Of that there is no doubt," he said.

The pope already met in December with senior Irish bishops about the report, produced by the Dublin Archdiocese Commission of Investigation. The Irish government created the commission in 2006 to examine abuse allegations.

« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 01:40:54 PM by ribbit »

truetrini

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #125 on: February 18, 2010, 06:49:04 PM »

Wife of televangelist Benny Hinn files for divorce
AP

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FILE - This Jan. 11, 2002 picture shows evangelist Benny Hinn during a service AP – FILE - This Jan. 11, 2002 picture shows evangelist Benny Hinn during a service at the Blaisdell Concert …
By GILLIAN FLACCUS, Associated Press Writer Gillian Flaccus, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 11 mins ago

ORANGE, Calif. – The wife of televangelist Benny Hinn has filed for divorce in Southern California.

Suzanne Hinn filed the papers in Orange County Superior Court on Feb. 1, citing irreconcilable differences, after more than 30 years of marriage. The papers note the two separated on Jan. 26 and that Hinn has been living in Dana Point, a wealthy coastal community in southern Orange County.

Hinn is one of the best known advocates of the prosperity gospel, which teaches that Christians who are right with God will be rewarded with wealth and health in this lifetime.

His TV broadcasts on the Trinity Broadcast Network, a Pentecostal broadcasting juggernaut, and other TV networks are seen by millions of people around the world nearly every day. He travels the globe in his ministry's plane, named Dove One, holding events he calls "Miracle Crusades" that include spiritual healings.

Hinn has never fully publicly disclosed how he spends the money he raises, but his vast ministry is believed to be a multimillion-dollar operation. There was no mention of finances in the court filing, which listed three recent Southern California addresses for the family.

Over the years, Hinn has been the target of intense criticism from fellow Christians and watchdog groups who call his teachings false and accuse him of raising money only to enrich himself.

He is one of six televangelists under investigation by Sen. Charles Grassley, the Iowa Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, over whether he complied with IRS rules for nonprofits. Hinn has said on his Web site that external auditors ensure his compliance with IRS regulations and that in 2008, 88 percent of the money he collected was spent on ministry.

Benny Hinn Ministries is based in Grapevine, Texas, and operates a church and television studio in Aliso Viejo in California's Orange County, according to its Web site.

Sorrell Trope, the attorney listed on Suzanne Hinn's court filing, did not immediately return a call for comment.

J. Lee Grady, contributing editor of Charisma, a news magazine on the Pentecostal community, said Hinn's divorce is the latest in a string of high-profile ministry divorces and moral failures among the Pentecostal leaders, beginning with Ted Haggard's fall from grace in 2006.

He said Hinn's followers will want an explanation because of the high profile the couple had.

"It will be devastating to the people who have supported Benny Hinn's evangelistic work around the world," Grady said.

"Obviously because their ministry has been very public (and) they will need to issue a statement to their supporters to explain how this happened," he said.

____

Associated Press Religion Writer Rachel Zoll in New York contributed to this report.

Offline pecan

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #126 on: February 18, 2010, 10:37:44 PM »

Wife of televangelist Benny Hinn files for divorce
AP

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FILE - This Jan. 11, 2002 picture shows evangelist Benny Hinn during a service AP – FILE - This Jan. 11, 2002 picture shows evangelist Benny Hinn during a service at the Blaisdell Concert …
By GILLIAN FLACCUS, Associated Press Writer Gillian Flaccus, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 11 mins ago

ORANGE, Calif. – The wife of televangelist Benny Hinn has filed for divorce in Southern California.

Suzanne Hinn filed the papers in Orange County Superior Court on Feb. 1, citing irreconcilable differences, after more than 30 years of marriage. The papers note the two separated on Jan. 26 and that Hinn has been living in Dana Point, a wealthy coastal community in southern Orange County.

Hinn is one of the best known advocates of the prosperity gospel, which teaches that Christians who are right with God will be rewarded with wealth and health in this lifetime.

His TV broadcasts on the Trinity Broadcast Network, a Pentecostal broadcasting juggernaut, and other TV networks are seen by millions of people around the world nearly every day. He travels the globe in his ministry's plane, named Dove One, holding events he calls "Miracle Crusades" that include spiritual healings.

Hinn has never fully publicly disclosed how he spends the money he raises, but his vast ministry is believed to be a multimillion-dollar operation. There was no mention of finances in the court filing, which listed three recent Southern California addresses for the family.

Over the years, Hinn has been the target of intense criticism from fellow Christians and watchdog groups who call his teachings false and accuse him of raising money only to enrich himself.

He is one of six televangelists under investigation by Sen. Charles Grassley, the Iowa Republican on the Senate Banking Committee, over whether he complied with IRS rules for nonprofits. Hinn has said on his Web site that external auditors ensure his compliance with IRS regulations and that in 2008, 88 percent of the money he collected was spent on ministry.

Benny Hinn Ministries is based in Grapevine, Texas, and operates a church and television studio in Aliso Viejo in California's Orange County, according to its Web site.

Sorrell Trope, the attorney listed on Suzanne Hinn's court filing, did not immediately return a call for comment.

J. Lee Grady, contributing editor of Charisma, a news magazine on the Pentecostal community, said Hinn's divorce is the latest in a string of high-profile ministry divorces and moral failures among the Pentecostal leaders, beginning with Ted Haggard's fall from grace in 2006.

He said Hinn's followers will want an explanation because of the high profile the couple had.

"It will be devastating to the people who have supported Benny Hinn's evangelistic work around the world," Grady said.

"Obviously because their ministry has been very public (and) they will need to issue a statement to their supporters to explain how this happened," he said.

____

Associated Press Religion Writer Rachel Zoll in New York contributed to this report.

maybe he should  ask God to heal his marriage
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline Preacher

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #127 on: February 18, 2010, 11:23:01 PM »
oouuucchhhhhh!!!!!!!!   Talk about a slam Pecan.  What is that a triple reverse? 
In Everything give thanks for this is the will of God concerning you.

Offline pecan

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #128 on: February 19, 2010, 07:40:54 AM »
oouuucchhhhhh!!!!!!!!   Talk about a slam Pecan.  What is that a triple reverse? 

the man is a charlatan and gives believers a bad rap.

 
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

truetrini

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #129 on: March 19, 2010, 09:19:34 PM »
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=35955785&#35955785

More Catholic loving....NO f**kING APOLOGIES FOR THE TITLE EITHER!

Offline pecan

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #130 on: March 20, 2010, 11:54:11 AM »
Pope apologizes in letter to Irish sex abuse victims

Philip Pullella,  Reuters

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.nationalpost.com/0320-pope.jpg Peter Muhly/AFP/Getty Images

VATICAN CITY -- Pope Benedict on Saturday apologized to victims of child sexual abuse by clergy in Ireland and announced a formal Vatican investigation of Irish Roman Catholic dioceses and seminaries hit by the abuse scandal.

In recent weeks, the Vatican has been trying to contain damage as a string of scandals over sexual abuse of children by priests has hit Ireland, Germany, Austria and the Netherlands.

"You have suffered grievously and I am truly sorry ... I openly express the shame and remorse that we all feel," he said in an unprecedented letter covering sexual abuse of minors by clergy in Ireland.

The letter, addressed to the people, bishops, priests and victims of abuse in the overwhelmingly Catholic country, did not make any specific reference to the scandals rocking Churches in other countries, particularly the pope's native Germany.

"I can only share in the dismay and sense of betrayal that so many of you have experienced on learning of these sinful and criminal acts and the way the Church authorities in Ireland dealt with them," he said.

But the pope did not address widespread calls in Ireland for a radical restructuring of the church there nor did he say that bishops implicated in the scandal should resign.

The pope announced what is known as an "apostolic visitation" of "certain" dioceses, seminaries and religious orders in Ireland.

An apostolic visitation is an inquiry in which inspectors meet bishops, seminary or convent directors and local church officials to review the way matters were handled in the past, to suggest changes and decide possible disciplinary action.

The pope said details of the investigation would be announced "in due course".

Benedict singled out Irish bishops for criticism of their handling of abuse cases in the past.

"It must be admitted that grave errors of judgment were made and failures of leadership occurred. All this has seriously undermined your credibility and effectiveness," he said.

He added: "Only decisive action carried out with complete honesty and transparency will restore the respect and goodwill of the Irish people towards the Church to which we have consecrated our lives," he said.

The letter, the first papal document devoted exclusively to paedophilia, follows a damning Irish government report on widespread child abuse by priests in the Dublin archdiocese.

The Murphy Report, published in November, said the church in Ireland had "obsessively" concealed child abuse in the Dublin archdiocese from 1975 to 2004, and operated a policy of "don't ask, don't tell".

The latest scandal in Germany is especially delicate for German-born Benedict, Munich's bishop from 1977 to 1981.

With public opinion in Germany boiling as more cases of abuse emerge, the vice president of the Bundestag lower house, Wolfgang Thierse, called for him to apologise on behalf of those responsible. Last week the head of Germany's Catholic Church apologised to victims of child abuse by priests when he came to Rome for a routine visit that was transformed into a crisis management meeting.

Archbishop Robert Zollitsch, head of the German Bishops' Conference, briefed Benedict about the situation in Germany, where more than 100 reports have emerged of abuse at Catholic institutions, including one linked to the prestigious Regensburg choir run by the pope's brother from 1964 to 1994.

© Thomson Reuters 2010
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline pecan

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #131 on: March 20, 2010, 11:56:42 AM »
Here is the letter from the Pope

Source - The Vatican

PASTORAL LETTER
OF THE HOLY FATHER
POPE BENEDICT XVI
TO THE CATHOLICS OF IRELAND




     

1. Dear Brothers and Sisters of the Church in Ireland, it is with great concern that I write to you as Pastor of the universal Church. Like yourselves, I have been deeply disturbed by the information which has come to light regarding the abuse of children and vulnerable young people by members of the Church in Ireland, particularly by priests and religious. I can only share in the dismay and the sense of betrayal that so many of you have experienced on learning of these sinful and criminal acts and the way Church authorities in Ireland dealt with them.

As you know, I recently invited the Irish bishops to a meeting here in Rome to give an account of their handling of these matters in the past and to outline the steps they have taken to respond to this grave situation. Together with senior officials of the Roman Curia, I listened to what they had to say, both individually and as a group, as they offered an analysis of mistakes made and lessons learned, and a description of the programmes and protocols now in place. Our discussions were frank and constructive. I am confident that, as a result, the bishops will now be in a stronger position to carry forward the work of repairing past injustices and confronting the broader issues associated with the abuse of minors in a way consonant with the demands of justice and the teachings of the Gospel.

2. For my part, considering the gravity of these offences, and the often inadequate response to them on the part of the ecclesiastical authorities in your country, I have decided to write this Pastoral Letter to express my closeness to you and to propose a path of healing, renewal and reparation.

It is true, as many in your country have pointed out, that the problem of child abuse is peculiar neither to Ireland nor to the Church. Nevertheless, the task you now face is to address the problem of abuse that has occurred within the Irish Catholic community, and to do so with courage and determination. No one imagines that this painful situation will be resolved swiftly. Real progress has been made, yet much more remains to be done. Perseverance and prayer are needed, with great trust in the healing power of God’s grace.

At the same time, I must also express my conviction that, in order to recover from this grievous wound, the Church in Ireland must first acknowledge before the Lord and before others the serious sins committed against defenceless children. Such an acknowledgement, accompanied by sincere sorrow for the damage caused to these victims and their families, must lead to a concerted effort to ensure the protection of children from similar crimes in the future.

As you take up the challenges of this hour, I ask you to remember “the rock from which you were hewn” (Is 51:1). Reflect upon the generous, often heroic, contributions made by past generations of Irish men and women to the Church and to humanity as a whole, and let this provide the impetus for honest self-examination and a committed programme of ecclesial and individual renewal. It is my prayer that, assisted by the intercession of her many saints and purified through penance, the Church in Ireland will overcome the present crisis and become once more a convincing witness to the truth and the goodness of Almighty God, made manifest in his Son Jesus Christ.

3. Historically, the Catholics of Ireland have proved an enormous force for good at home and abroad. Celtic monks like Saint Columbanus spread the Gospel in Western Europe and laid the foundations of medieval monastic culture. The ideals of holiness, charity and transcendent wisdom born of the Christian faith found expression in the building of churches and monasteries and the establishment of schools, libraries and hospitals, all of which helped to consolidate the spiritual identity of Europe. Those Irish missionaries drew their strength and inspiration from the firm faith, strong leadership and upright morals of the Church in their native land.

From the sixteenth century on, Catholics in Ireland endured a long period of persecution, during which they struggled to keep the flame of faith alive in dangerous and difficult circumstances. Saint Oliver Plunkett, the martyred Archbishop of Armagh, is the most famous example of a host of courageous sons and daughters of Ireland who were willing to lay down their lives out of fidelity to the Gospel. After Catholic Emancipation, the Church was free to grow once more. Families and countless individuals who had preserved the faith in times of trial became the catalyst for the great resurgence of Irish Catholicism in the nineteenth century. The Church provided education, especially for the poor, and this was to make a major contribution to Irish society. Among the fruits of the new Catholic schools was a rise in vocations: generations of missionary priests, sisters and brothers left their homeland to serve in every continent, especially in the English-speaking world. They were remarkable not only for their great numbers, but for the strength of their faith and the steadfastness of their pastoral commitment. Many dioceses, especially in Africa, America and Australia, benefited from the presence of Irish clergy and religious who preached the Gospel and established parishes, schools and universities, clinics and hospitals that served both Catholics and the community at large, with particular attention to the needs of the poor.

In almost every family in Ireland, there has been someone – a son or a daughter, an aunt or an uncle – who has given his or her life to the Church. Irish families rightly esteem and cherish their loved ones who have dedicated their lives to Christ, sharing the gift of faith with others, and putting that faith into action in loving service of God and neighbour.

4. In recent decades, however, the Church in your country has had to confront new and serious challenges to the faith arising from the rapid transformation and secularization of Irish society. Fast-paced social change has occurred, often adversely affecting people’s traditional adherence to Catholic teaching and values. All too often, the sacramental and devotional practices that sustain faith and enable it to grow, such as frequent confession, daily prayer and annual retreats, were neglected. Significant too was the tendency during this period, also on the part of priests and religious, to adopt ways of thinking and assessing secular realities without sufficient reference to the Gospel. The programme of renewal proposed by the Second Vatican Council was sometimes misinterpreted and indeed, in the light of the profound social changes that were taking place, it was far from easy to know how best to implement it. In particular, there was a well-intentioned but misguided tendency to avoid penal approaches to canonically irregular situations. It is in this overall context that we must try to understand the disturbing problem of child sexual abuse, which has contributed in no small measure to the weakening of faith and the loss of respect for the Church and her teachings.

Only by examining carefully the many elements that gave rise to the present crisis can a clear-sighted diagnosis of its causes be undertaken and effective remedies be found. Certainly, among the contributing factors we can include: inadequate procedures for determining the suitability of candidates for the priesthood and the religious life; insufficient human, moral, intellectual and spiritual formation in seminaries and novitiates; a tendency in society to favour the clergy and other authority figures; and a misplaced concern for the reputation of the Church and the avoidance of scandal, resulting in failure to apply existing canonical penalties and to safeguard the dignity of every person. Urgent action is needed to address these factors, which have had such tragic consequences in the lives of victims and their families, and have obscured the light of the Gospel to a degree that not even centuries of persecution succeeded in doing.

5. On several occasions since my election to the See of Peter, I have met with victims of sexual abuse, as indeed I am ready to do in the future. I have sat with them, I have listened to their stories, I have acknowledged their suffering, and I have prayed with them and for them. Earlier in my pontificate, in my concern to address this matter, I asked the bishops of Ireland, “to establish the truth of what happened in the past, to take whatever steps are necessary to prevent it from occurring again, to ensure that the principles of justice are fully respected, and above all, to bring healing to the victims and to all those affected by these egregious crimes” (Address to the Bishops of Ireland, 28 October 2006).

With this Letter, I wish to exhort all of you, as God’s people in Ireland, to reflect on the wounds inflicted on Christ’s body, the sometimes painful remedies needed to bind and heal them, and the need for unity, charity and mutual support in the long-term process of restoration and ecclesial renewal. I now turn to you with words that come from my heart, and I wish to speak to each of you individually and to all of you as brothers and sisters in the Lord.

6. To the victims of abuse and their families

You have suffered grievously and I am truly sorry. I know that nothing can undo the wrong you have endured. Your trust has been betrayed and your dignity has been violated. Many of you found that, when you were courageous enough to speak of what happened to you, no one would listen. Those of you who were abused in residential institutions must have felt that there was no escape from your sufferings. It is understandable that you find it hard to forgive or be reconciled with the Church. In her name, I openly express the shame and remorse that we all feel. At the same time, I ask you not to lose hope. It is in the communion of the Church that we encounter the person of Jesus Christ, who was himself a victim of injustice and sin. Like you, he still bears the wounds of his own unjust suffering. He understands the depths of your pain and its enduring effect upon your lives and your relationships, including your relationship with the Church. I know some of you find it difficult even to enter the doors of a church after all that has occurred. Yet Christ’s own wounds, transformed by his redemptive sufferings, are the very means by which the power of evil is broken and we are reborn to life and hope. I believe deeply in the healing power of his self-sacrificing love – even in the darkest and most hopeless situations – to bring liberation and the promise of a new beginning.

Speaking to you as a pastor concerned for the good of all God’s children, I humbly ask you to consider what I have said. I pray that, by drawing nearer to Christ and by participating in the life of his Church – a Church purified by penance and renewed in pastoral charity – you will come to rediscover Christ’s infinite love for each one of you. I am confident that in this way you will be able to find reconciliation, deep inner healing and peace.

7. To priests and religious who have abused children

You betrayed the trust that was placed in you by innocent young people and their parents, and you must answer for it before Almighty God and before properly constituted tribunals. You have forfeited the esteem of the people of Ireland and brought shame and dishonour upon your confreres. Those of you who are priests violated the sanctity of the sacrament of Holy Orders in which Christ makes himself present in us and in our actions. Together with the immense harm done to victims, great damage has been done to the Church and to the public perception of the priesthood and religious life.

I urge you to examine your conscience, take responsibility for the sins you have committed, and humbly express your sorrow. Sincere repentance opens the door to God’s forgiveness and the grace of true amendment. By offering prayers and penances for those you have wronged, you should seek to atone personally for your actions. Christ’s redeeming sacrifice has the power to forgive even the gravest of sins, and to bring forth good from even the most terrible evil. At the same time, God’s justice summons us to give an account of our actions and to conceal nothing. Openly acknowledge your guilt, submit yourselves to the demands of justice, but do not despair of God’s mercy.

8. To parents

You have been deeply shocked to learn of the terrible things that took place in what ought to be the safest and most secure environment of all. In today’s world it is not easy to build a home and to bring up children. They deserve to grow up in security, loved and cherished, with a strong sense of their identity and worth. They have a right to be educated in authentic moral values rooted in the dignity of the human person, to be inspired by the truth of our Catholic faith and to learn ways of behaving and acting that lead to healthy self-esteem and lasting happiness. This noble but demanding task is entrusted in the first place to you, their parents. I urge you to play your part in ensuring the best possible care of children, both at home and in society as a whole, while the Church, for her part, continues to implement the measures adopted in recent years to protect young people in parish and school environments. As you carry out your vital responsibilities, be assured that I remain close to you and I offer you the support of my prayers.

9. To the children and young people of Ireland

I wish to offer you a particular word of encouragement. Your experience of the Church is very different from that of your parents and grandparents. The world has changed greatly since they were your age. Yet all people, in every generation, are called to travel the same path through life, whatever their circumstances may be. We are all scandalized by the sins and failures of some of the Church's members, particularly those who were chosen especially to guide and serve young people. But it is in the Church that you will find Jesus Christ, who is the same yesterday, today and for ever (cf. Heb 13:8). He loves you and he has offered himself on the cross for you. Seek a personal relationship with him within the communion of his Church, for he will never betray your trust! He alone can satisfy your deepest longings and give your lives their fullest meaning by directing them to the service of others. Keep your eyes fixed on Jesus and his goodness, and shelter the flame of faith in your heart. Together with your fellow Catholics in Ireland, I look to you to be faithful disciples of our Lord and to bring your much-needed enthusiasm and idealism to the rebuilding and renewal of our beloved Church.

10. To the priests and religious of Ireland

All of us are suffering as a result of the sins of our confreres who betrayed a sacred trust or failed to deal justly and responsibly with allegations of abuse. In view of the outrage and indignation which this has provoked, not only among the lay faithful but among yourselves and your religious communities, many of you feel personally discouraged, even abandoned. I am also aware that in some people’s eyes you are tainted by association, and viewed as if you were somehow responsible for the misdeeds of others. At this painful time, I want to acknowledge the dedication of your priestly and religious lives and apostolates, and I invite you to reaffirm your faith in Christ, your love of his Church and your confidence in the Gospel's promise of redemption, forgiveness and interior renewal. In this way, you will demonstrate for all to see that where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more (cf. Rom 5:20).

I know that many of you are disappointed, bewildered and angered by the way these matters have been handled by some of your superiors. Yet, it is essential that you cooperate closely with those in authority and help to ensure that the measures adopted to respond to the crisis will be truly evangelical, just and effective. Above all, I urge you to become ever more clearly men and women of prayer, courageously following the path of conversion, purification and reconciliation. In this way, the Church in Ireland will draw new life and vitality from your witness to the Lord's redeeming power made visible in your lives.

11. To my brother bishops

It cannot be denied that some of you and your predecessors failed, at times grievously, to apply the long-established norms of canon law to the crime of child abuse. Serious mistakes were made in responding to allegations. I recognize how difficult it was to grasp the extent and complexity of the problem, to obtain reliable information and to make the right decisions in the light of conflicting expert advice. Nevertheless, it must be admitted that grave errors of judgement were made and failures of leadership occurred. All this has seriously undermined your credibility and effectiveness. I appreciate the efforts you have made to remedy past mistakes and to guarantee that they do not happen again. Besides fully implementing the norms of canon law in addressing cases of child abuse, continue to cooperate with the civil authorities in their area of competence. Clearly, religious superiors should do likewise. They too have taken part in recent discussions here in Rome with a view to establishing a clear and consistent approach to these matters. It is imperative that the child safety norms of the Church in Ireland be continually revised and updated and that they be applied fully and impartially in conformity with canon law.

Only decisive action carried out with complete honesty and transparency will restore the respect and good will of the Irish people towards the Church to which we have consecrated our lives. This must arise, first and foremost, from your own self-examination, inner purification and spiritual renewal. The Irish people rightly expect you to be men of God, to be holy, to live simply, to pursue personal conversion daily. For them, in the words of Saint Augustine, you are a bishop; yet with them you are called to be a follower of Christ (cf. Sermon 340, 1). I therefore exhort you to renew your sense of accountability before God, to grow in solidarity with your people and to deepen your pastoral concern for all the members of your flock. In particular, I ask you to be attentive to the spiritual and moral lives of each one of your priests. Set them an example by your own lives, be close to them, listen to their concerns, offer them encouragement at this difficult time and stir up the flame of their love for Christ and their commitment to the service of their brothers and sisters.

The lay faithful, too, should be encouraged to play their proper part in the life of the Church. See that they are formed in such a way that they can offer an articulate and convincing account of the Gospel in the midst of modern society (cf. 1 Pet 3:15) and cooperate more fully in the Church’s life and mission. This in turn will help you once again become credible leaders and witnesses to the redeeming truth of Christ.

12. To all the faithful of Ireland

A young person’s experience of the Church should always bear fruit in a personal and life-giving encounter with Jesus Christ within a loving, nourishing community. In this environment, young people should be encouraged to grow to their full human and spiritual stature, to aspire to high ideals of holiness, charity and truth, and to draw inspiration from the riches of a great religious and cultural tradition. In our increasingly secularized society, where even we Christians often find it difficult to speak of the transcendent dimension of our existence, we need to find new ways to pass on to young people the beauty and richness of friendship with Jesus Christ in the communion of his Church. In confronting the present crisis, measures to deal justly with individual crimes are essential, yet on their own they are not enough: a new vision is needed, to inspire present and future generations to treasure the gift of our common faith. By treading the path marked out by the Gospel, by observing the commandments and by conforming your lives ever more closely to the figure of Jesus Christ, you will surely experience the profound renewal that is so urgently needed at this time. I invite you all to persevere along this path.

13. Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, it is out of deep concern for all of you at this painful time in which the fragility of the human condition has been so starkly revealed that I have wished to offer these words of encouragement and support. I hope that you will receive them as a sign of my spiritual closeness and my confidence in your ability to respond to the challenges of the present hour by drawing renewed inspiration and strength from Ireland’s noble traditions of fidelity to the Gospel, perseverance in the faith and steadfastness in the pursuit of holiness.In solidarity with all of you, I am praying earnestly that, by God’s grace, the wounds afflicting so many individuals and families may be healed and that the Church in Ireland may experience a season of rebirth and spiritual renewal.

14. I now wish to propose to you some concrete initiatives to address the situation.

At the conclusion of my meeting with the Irish bishops, I asked that Lent this year be set aside as a time to pray for an outpouring of God’s mercy and the Holy Spirit’s gifts of holiness and strength upon the Church in your country. I now invite all of you to devote your Friday penances, for a period of one year, between now and Easter 2011, to this intention. I ask you to offer up your fasting, your prayer, your reading of Scripture and your works of mercy in order to obtain the grace of healing and renewal for the Church in Ireland. I encourage you to discover anew the sacrament of Reconciliation and to avail yourselves more frequently of the transforming power of its grace.

Particular attention should also be given to Eucharistic adoration, and in every diocese there should be churches or chapels specifically devoted to this purpose. I ask parishes, seminaries, religious houses and monasteries to organize periods of Eucharistic adoration, so that all have an opportunity to take part. Through intense prayer before the real presence of the Lord, you can make reparation for the sins of abuse that have done so much harm, at the same time imploring the grace of renewed strength and a deeper sense of mission on the part of all bishops, priests, religious and lay faithful.

I am confident that this programme will lead to a rebirth of the Church in Ireland in the fullness of God’s own truth, for it is the truth that sets us free (cf. Jn 8:32).

Furthermore, having consulted and prayed about the matter, I intend to hold an Apostolic Visitation of certain dioceses in Ireland, as well as seminaries and religious congregations. Arrangements for the Visitation, which is intended to assist the local Church on her path of renewal, will be made in cooperation with the competent offices of the Roman Curia and the Irish Episcopal Conference. The details will be announced in due course.

I also propose that a nationwide Mission be held for all bishops, priests and religious. It is my hope that, by drawing on the expertise of experienced preachers and retreat-givers from Ireland and from elsewhere, and by exploring anew the conciliar documents, the liturgical rites of ordination and profession, and recent pontifical teaching, you will come to a more profound appreciation of your respective vocations, so as to rediscover the roots of your faith in Jesus Christ and to drink deeply from the springs of living water that he offers you through his Church.

In this Year for Priests, I commend to you most particularly the figure of Saint John Mary Vianney, who had such a rich understanding of the mystery of the priesthood. “The priest”, he wrote, “holds the key to the treasures of heaven: it is he who opens the door: he is the steward of the good Lord; the administrator of his goods.” The Curι d’Ars understood well how greatly blessed a community is when served by a good and holy priest: “A good shepherd, a pastor after God’s heart, is the greatest treasure which the good Lord can grant to a parish, and one of the most precious gifts of divine mercy.” Through the intercession of Saint John Mary Vianney, may the priesthood in Ireland be revitalized, and may the whole Church in Ireland grow in appreciation for the great gift of the priestly ministry.

I take this opportunity to thank in anticipation all those who will be involved in the work of organizing the Apostolic Visitation and the Mission, as well as the many men and women throughout Ireland already working for the safety of children in church environments. Since the time when the gravity and extent of the problem of child sexual abuse in Catholic institutions first began to be fully grasped, the Church has done an immense amount of work in many parts of the world in order to address and remedy it. While no effort should be spared in improving and updating existing procedures, I am encouraged by the fact that the current safeguarding practices adopted by local Churches are being seen, in some parts of the world, as a model for other institutions to follow.

I wish to conclude this Letter with a special Prayer for the Church in Ireland, which I send to you with the care of a father for his children and with the affection of a fellow Christian, scandalized and hurt by what has occurred in our beloved Church. As you make use of this prayer in your families, parishes and communities, may the Blessed Virgin Mary protect and guide each of you to a closer union with her Son, crucified and risen. With great affection and unswerving confidence in God’s promises, I cordially impart to all of you my Apostolic Blessing as a pledge of strength and peace in the Lord.

From the Vatican, 19 March 2010, on the Solemnity of Saint Joseph

BENEDICTUS PP. XVI


Prayer for the Church in Ireland

God of our fathers,
renew us in the faith which is our life and salvation,
the hope which promises forgiveness and interior renewal,
the charity which purifies and opens our hearts
to love you, and in you, each of our brothers and sisters.

Lord Jesus Christ,
may the Church in Ireland renew her age-old commitment
to the education of our young people in the way of truth and goodness, holiness and generous service to society.

Holy Spirit, comforter, advocate and guide,
inspire a new springtime of holiness and apostolic zeal
for the Church in Ireland.

May our sorrow and our tears,
our sincere effort to redress past wrongs,
and our firm purpose of amendment
bear an abundant harvest of grace
for the deepening of the faith
in our families, parishes, schools and communities,
for the spiritual progress of Irish society,
and the growth of charity, justice, joy and peace
within the whole human family.

To you, Triune God,
confident in the loving protection of Mary,
Queen of Ireland, our Mother,
and of Saint Patrick, Saint Brigid and all the saints,
do we entrust ourselves, our children,
and the needs of the Church in Ireland.

Amen.

 
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline pecan

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #132 on: March 20, 2010, 12:01:33 PM »
Here is what Christopher Hitchens have to say about the issue

Source - slate.com

On March 10, the chief exorcist of the Vatican, the Rev. Gabriele Amorth (who has held this demanding post for 25 years), was quoted as saying that “the Devil is at work inside the Vatican,” and that “when one speaks of ‘the smoke of Satan’ in the holy rooms, it is all true — including these latest stories of violence and pedophilia.” This can perhaps be taken as confirmation that something horrible has indeed been going on in the holy precincts, though most inquiries show it to have a perfectly good material explanation.
Pope Benedict led the Church department in 2001 that investigated allegations of child rape by priests.

Concerning the most recent revelations about the steady complicity of the Vatican in the ongoing — indeed endless — scandal of child rape, a few days later a spokesman for the Holy See made a concession in the guise of a denial. It was clear, said the Rev. Federico Lombardi, that an attempt was being made “to find elements to involve the Holy Father personally in issues of abuse.” He stupidly went on to say that “those efforts have failed.”

He was wrong twice. In the first place, nobody has had to strive to find such evidence: It has surfaced, as it was bound to do. In the second place, this extension of the awful scandal to the topmost level of the Roman Catholic Church is a process that has only just begun. Yet it became in a sense inevitable when the College of Cardinals elected, as the vicar of Christ on Earth, the man chiefly responsible for the original cover-up. (One of the sanctified voters in that “election” was Cardinal Bernard Law of Boston, a man who had already found the jurisdiction of Massachusetts a bit too warm for his liking.)

There are two separate but related matters here: First, the individual responsibility of the Pope in one instance of this moral nightmare and, second, his more general and institutional responsibility for the wider lawbreaking and for the shame and disgrace that goes with it. The first story is easily told, and it is not denied by anybody. In 1979, an 11-year-old German boy identified as Wilfried F. was taken on a vacation trip to the mountains by a priest. After that, he was administered alcohol, locked in his bedroom, stripped naked and forced to suck the penis of his confessor. (Why do we limit ourselves to calling this sort of thing “abuse”?) The offending cleric was transferred from Essen to Munich for “therapy” by a decision of then-Archbishop Joseph Ratzinger, and assurances were given that he would no longer have children in his care. But it took no time for Ratzinger’s deputy, Vicar General Gerhard Gruber, to return him to “pastoral” work, where he soon enough resumed his career of sexual assault.

It is, of course, claimed, and it will no doubt later be partially un-claimed, that Ratzinger himself knew nothing of this second outrage. I quote, here, from the Rev. Thomas Doyle, a former employee of the Vatican Embassy in Washington and an early critic of the Catholic Church’s sloth in responding to child-rape allegations. “Nonsense,” he says. “Pope Benedict is a micro-manager. He’s the old style. Anything like that would necessarily have been brought to his attention. Tell the vicar general to find a better line. What he’s trying to do, obviously, is protect the Pope.”

 This is common or garden stuff, very familiar to American and Australian and Irish Catholics whose children’s rape and torture, and the cover-up of same by the tactic of moving rapists and torturers from parish to parish, has been painstakingly and comprehensively exposed. It’s on a level with the recent belated admission by the Pope’s brother, Monsignor Georg Ratzinger, that while he knew nothing about sexual assault at the choir school he ran between 1964 and 1994, now that he remembers it, he is sorry for his practice of slapping the boys around.

Very much more serious is the role of Joseph Ratzinger, before the church decided to make him supreme leader, in obstructing justice on a global scale. After his promotion to cardinal, he was put in charge of the so-called “Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith” (formerly known as the Inquisition). In 2001, Pope John Paul II placed this department in charge of the investigation of child rape and torture by Catholic priests. In May of that year, Ratzinger issued a confidential letter to every bishop. In it, he reminded them of the extreme gravity of a certain crime. But that crime was the reporting of the rape and torture. The accusations, intoned Ratzinger, were only treatable within the church’s own exclusive jurisdiction. Any sharing of the evidence with legal authorities or the press was utterly forbidden. Charges were to be investigated “in the most secretive way ... restrained by a perpetual silence ... and everyone ... is to observe the strictest secret which is commonly regarded as a secret of the Holy Office … under the penalty of excommunication.” Nobody has yet been excommunicated for the rape and torture of children, but exposing the offence could get you into serious trouble. And this is the church that warns us against moral relativism! (See, for more on this appalling document, two reports in the London Observer of April 24, 2005, by Jamie Doward.)

Not content with shielding its own priests from the law, Ratzinger’s office even wrote its own private statute of limitations. The church’s jurisdiction, claimed Ratzinger, “begins to run from the day when the minor has completed the 18th year of age” and then lasts for 10 more years. Daniel Shea, the attorney for two victims who sued Ratzinger and a church in Texas, correctly describes that latter stipulation as an obstruction of justice. “You can’t investigate a case if you never find out about it. If you can manage to keep it secret for 18 years plus 10, the priest will get away with it.”

The next item on this grisly docket will be the revival of the long-standing allegations against the Rev. Marcial Maciel, founder of the ultra-reactionary Legion of Christ, in which sexual assault seems to have been almost part of the liturgy. Senior ex-members of this secretive order found their complaints ignored and overridden by Ratzinger during the 1990s, if only because Father Maciel had been praised by the then-Pope John Paul II as an “efficacious guide to youth.” And now behold the harvest of this long campaign of obfuscation. The Roman Catholic Church is headed by a mediocre Bavarian bureaucrat once tasked with the concealment of the foulest iniquity, whose ineptitude in that job now shows him to us as a man personally and professionally responsible for enabling a filthy wave of crime. Ratzinger himself may be banal, but his whole career has the stench of evil — a clinging and systematic evil that is beyond the power of exorcism to dispel. What is needed is not medieval incantation but the application of justice — and speedily at that.
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

truetrini

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #133 on: March 20, 2010, 03:22:27 PM »
That whole so-called Church endorsed illicit and illegal behaviors and actions by its priests' for agaes.

That is ah f**king hell hole.

time for the world to open their eyes and all sensible people leave that shit religion!

Offline pecan

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #134 on: March 20, 2010, 03:40:15 PM »
That whole so-called Church endorsed illicit and illegal behaviors and actions by its priests' for agaes.

That is ah f**king hell hole.

time for the world to open their eyes and all sensible people leave that shit religion!

I cannot disagree with you.  They knew and covered up.
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Offline just cool

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #135 on: March 20, 2010, 05:12:46 PM »
That whole so-called Church endorsed illicit and illegal behaviors and actions by its priests' for agaes.

That is ah f**king hell hole.

time for the world to open their eyes and all sensible people leave that shit religion!
Why? BC you opposed! stueps! it have better places tuh put yuh energy my friend! religion doh hurt ppl, is ppl who does hurt ppl by not having enough sense tuh differentiate fiction from reality.

i would rather see you go on ah serious campaign to oust , guns,  liqour, cigarette, genetically modified foods, reduce chemical engineering, abolish fossil fuel and push hard for renewable energy, since these things actually cause millions of death every yrs.

religion eh killin no body in trinidad! as ah matter of fact, iz BC we grandmudda and grand farrder used tuh push religious values down we throat, kept us from being as disrespectful of human life like this new religiousless crack baby generation, who killing ppl like foul in TNT.

as you said , is time for the world tuh open their eyes yes, but not so much against religion, but more-so @ the BS norms that is destroying us/ health wise from the floor up in this new world society!
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 05:14:57 PM by just cool »
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

truetrini

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #136 on: March 20, 2010, 05:27:04 PM »
That whole so-called Church endorsed illicit and illegal behaviors and actions by its priests' for agaes.

That is ah f**king hell hole.

time for the world to open their eyes and all sensible people leave that shit religion!
Why? BC you opposed! stueps! it have better places tuh put yuh energy my friend! religion doh hurt ppl, is ppl who does hurt ppl by not having enough sense tuh differentiate fiction from reality.

i would rather see you go on ah serious campaign to oust , guns,  liqour, cigarette, genetically modified foods, reduce chemical engineering, abolish fossil fuel and push hard for renewable energy, since these things actually cause millions of death every yrs.

religion eh killin no body in trinidad! as ah matter of fact, iz BC we grandmudda and grand farrder used tuh push religious values down we throat, kept us from being as disrespectful of human life like this new religiousless crack baby generation, who killing ppl like foul in TNT.

as you said , is time for the world tuh open their eyes yes, but not so much against religion, but more-so @ the BS norms that is destroying us/ health wise from the floor up in this new world society!

boss f**k re;ligion and f**k de stinking nasty catholic church even more

truetrini

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #137 on: March 20, 2010, 05:47:33 PM »
Swiss Catholic Church investigating 10 abuse cases
Reuters

A general view shows Basel's bishop's palace in Solothurn Reuters – A general view shows Basel's bishop's palace, the St.Ursen Cathedral in Solothurn, March 20, …
2 hrs 20 mins ago

ZURICH (Reuters) – The Swiss Catholic Church is investigating around 10 allegations of abuse by clergy, including some acts committed since 2001, making Switzerland the latest country to be hit by a wave of scandal sweeping Europe.

In a pastoral letter on Saturday, Pope Benedict apologized to victims of child sex abuse by clergy in Ireland and ordered an official inquiry there.

The Swiss Bishops' Conference said the Pope's letter confirmed the church in Switzerland had acted correctly in dealing with cases of abuse, and added that it had already worked together with victims to report abuse to the authorities.

"The letter supports the guidelines that the Church introduced for cases of sexual abuse in 2002," said Conference spokesman Walter Mueller.

The Diocese of Chur, in eastern Switzerland, said it was investigating around 10 complaints of abuse. "Our primary goal now is to help the victims," the bishop's representative, Christoph Casetti, told national Swiss television station SF1.

The abbot of a monastery in the diocese said at least three of the 77 monks at Einsiedeln had committed acts of abuse since he took up office in December 2001, but no legal action had been taken in any of the cases.

"The victims or their representatives said expressly that they did not want it," Abbot Martin Werlen told SF1. There had also been two cases of abuse at the monastery school in the 1970s, resulting in one monk being moved to another post.

Last week, a priest resigned from his post at a parish church in Chur diocese after admitting abusing a child 40 years ago, when he worked in a different country.

Casetti said none of the cases under investigation was in connection to this priest. One of the priests involved had since died and the diocese was trying to get an overview of cases of abuse over the past 50 years, he said.

The leader of Germany's Roman Catholic Church said on Saturday that the Pope's apology was also clearly an admonition to bishops in his country.

Archbishop Robert Zollitsch also apologized for mistakes he made in failing to turn over a case of suspected abuse by a priest to state prosecutors when he was in charge of human resources in the Freiburg diocese years ago.

(Reporting by Jason Rhodes; editing by David Stamp)


Offline just cool

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #138 on: March 20, 2010, 09:23:48 PM »
That whole so-called Church endorsed illicit and illegal behaviors and actions by its priests' for agaes.

That is ah f**king hell hole.

time for the world to open their eyes and all sensible people leave that shit religion!
Why? BC you opposed! stueps! it have better places tuh put yuh energy my friend! religion doh hurt ppl, is ppl who does hurt ppl by not having enough sense tuh differentiate fiction from reality.

i would rather see you go on ah serious campaign to oust , guns,  liqour, cigarette, genetically modified foods, reduce chemical engineering, abolish fossil fuel and push hard for renewable energy, since these things actually cause millions of death every yrs.

religion eh killin no body in trinidad! as ah matter of fact, iz BC we grandmudda and grand farrder used tuh push religious values down we throat, kept us from being as disrespectful of human life like this new religiousless crack baby generation, who killing ppl like foul in TNT.

as you said , is time for the world tuh open their eyes yes, but not so much against religion, but more-so @ the BS norms that is destroying us/ health wise from the floor up in this new world society!

boss f**k re;ligion and f**k de stinking nasty catholic church even more
I was expecting some feed back, that's the best you could do?
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

truetrini

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #139 on: March 20, 2010, 11:53:40 PM »
That whole so-called Church endorsed illicit and illegal behaviors and actions by its priests' for agaes.

That is ah f**king hell hole.

time for the world to open their eyes and all sensible people leave that shit religion!
Why? BC you opposed! stueps! it have better places tuh put yuh energy my friend! religion doh hurt ppl, is ppl who does hurt ppl by not having enough sense tuh differentiate fiction from reality.

i would rather see you go on ah serious campaign to oust , guns,  liqour, cigarette, genetically modified foods, reduce chemical engineering, abolish fossil fuel and push hard for renewable energy, since these things actually cause millions of death every yrs.

religion eh killin no body in trinidad! as ah matter of fact, iz BC we grandmudda and grand farrder used tuh push religious values down we throat, kept us from being as disrespectful of human life like this new religiousless crack baby generation, who killing ppl like foul in TNT.

as you said , is time for the world tuh open their eyes yes, but not so much against religion, but more-so @ the BS norms that is destroying us/ health wise from the floor up in this new world society!

boss f**k re;ligion and f**k de stinking nasty catholic church even more
guns doh hurt people, is people who does use guns to hurt people. same way they using religion to rape little children.
you know dem criminals religious-less?  same ting with cigarettes food etc. 

Offline WestCoast

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #140 on: March 21, 2010, 07:28:26 AM »
I have said it before and I will say it again
That knowing the facts over the last many many years, It is just amazing that The Leaders of the Catholic Church from Pope on down have never been charged, not one of them, with aiding and abetting and harboring these criminals.
Maybe now that information has surfaced in Germany, this may change, but I am not holding my breath as it seems that those leaders are held to a higher standard and rise above being charged.

a quote from this article
"as criticism mounted over a 2001 Vatican directive he penned instructing bishops to keep abuse cases secret."
der Teufel
This refers to the current Pope and I have read similar comments about previous Popes

Its a Crazy mixed up world we live in
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 08:35:30 AM by WestCoast »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

truetrini

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #141 on: March 21, 2010, 09:04:15 AM »
MAn advocating gun control, and not a peep about dese child rapers  When I say people should open their eyes and leave that so-called religion he take me to task and bring up gun control...lol
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 09:08:05 AM by Trinity Cross »

Offline WestCoast

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #142 on: March 21, 2010, 09:08:55 AM »
I know what it is

all dem Leaders have to do is say
2 hail marys and 5 our faddas and day good to BULL some More........simple....all is forgiven..........ENT ??
der Teufel
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 09:10:35 AM by WestCoast »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

truetrini

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #143 on: March 21, 2010, 09:16:21 AM »
I know what it is

all dem Leaders have to do is say
2 hail marys and 5 our faddas and day good to BULL some More........simple....all is forgiven..........ENT ??
der Teufel

God is love fella, and dem is He pussonal spokespersons here on earth

Offline just cool

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #144 on: March 21, 2010, 04:12:12 PM »
MAn advocating gun control, and not a peep about dese child rapers  When I say people should open their eyes and leave that so-called religion he take me to task and bring up gun control...lol
I don't see no where in the catholic creed where it says that it's OK tuh molest children!!! you on the other hand want ppl tuh abandon their religion BC of ah few miscreants, and i find that to be extremely simple, not to mention shallow and malicious!

the thing with you iz, since i came on this site, you've been ranting on about religion and religious figures alike, and despite tons and tons of rebuttal, which you seem to often ignore, we always wind up in this same place, square one!!

which leaves me to conclude that you're not about truth, but rather ah serious WITCH HUNT my friend!! there is no other way to describe it!

as for the guns in comparison with religion? there are ways to compare religion in the context that you described it, to the use of guns and chemicals that caused an alarming rate of cancer since their introduction, which in turn contribute to the most lost of life annually world wide! now isn't that ah greater cause for concern?

IF YOUR CONCERN IZ TRULY ABOUT THE HUMAN CONDITION, then there's bigger fish to fry, and bigger culprits to be had other than unscrupulous religious figures.

start wid the alcohol, fire arms and tobacco industry! then scoot over to the agricultural sector, that should keep yuh busy for @ least another decade! and yes it's that serious!
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

Offline pecan

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #145 on: March 21, 2010, 05:37:36 PM »
JC, I eh presuming to speak on behalf of TC, but the problem with the Roman Catholic church is more that just "ah few miscreants".   Time and time again, the priests who abused and mistreated the vulnerable in their congregation were simply shuffled to another Parish to repeat their sins, all with the knowledge of the hierarchy.

So the sins have long reaching tentacles that go all the way to the top.

Where TC and I disagree is that religion is bad. The problem is with the people who practice the religion.  Some get it right and many get it wrong. 

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

truetrini

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #146 on: March 21, 2010, 07:09:45 PM »
JUST COOL ON A CRUSADE WITH ME, HE FEELS IN HIS HEAD THAT i AM AN EASY TARGET...LOL  wrong!

The Catholic Church for f**king centuries has been RAPING children, always with the TACIT consent and approval of the Church's heirachy!

There is no way they can say that they have not been complicit in the substantial abuse of children ALL over the world.  this translates into me having problems with them  lol  Well fella you too should have great trouble with them and the ABUSE of children.

All your rebuttal has been shit!  ALL!!!!!

The Catholic Church has given succour and support to priests, Cardinals, Nazi war criminals and Communists who have killed many people.

The damn Pope was a member of Hitler's Nazi Youth Arm.  He defended and hid MANY clergy who raped children.  He prevented the arrest of those who harmed little children.  He is a f**king apostate!

In Ireland, the head of the Catholic Church, Cardinal Sean Brady, has admitted that he was present at meetings in the 1970s when children who were abused by a pedophile priest were forced, there and then, to sign a vow of silence.   Look at that!  He reports to who again?  Nasty f**kers..and you call thema  few?  Is de whole f**king Church breds!

That "Church" does still make beleive that all de baby rapers they have disguised as men of God are probably, on de whole, ah bad thing, they are not half as Satanic as stuff like condoms, socialism and gender equality.  hahahahahaha  Boy f**k dem and anyone who trying to defend that ka-ka hole organization eh.

Well,breds the sins of the FATHERS haunting the cyat to lick church!

Offline just cool

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #147 on: March 21, 2010, 07:53:10 PM »
JUST COOL ON A CRUSADE WITH ME, HE FEELS IN HIS HEAD THAT i AM AN EASY TARGET...LOL  wrong!

The Catholic Church for f**king centuries has been RAPING children, always with the TACIT consent and approval of the Church's heirachy!

There is no way they can say that they have not been complicit in the substantial abuse of children ALL over the world.  this translates into me having problems with them  lol  Well fella you too should have great trouble with them and the ABUSE of children.

All your rebuttal has been shit!  ALL!!!!!

The Catholic Church has given succour and support to priests, Cardinals, Nazi war criminals and Communists who have killed many people.

The damn Pope was a member of Hitler's Nazi Youth Arm.  He defended and hid MANY clergy who raped children.  He prevented the arrest of those who harmed little children.  He is a f**king apostate!

In Ireland, the head of the Catholic Church, Cardinal Sean Brady, has admitted that he was present at meetings in the 1970s when children who were abused by a pedophile priest were forced, there and then, to sign a vow of silence.   Look at that!  He reports to who again?  Nasty f**kers..and you call thema  few?  Is de whole f**king Church breds!

That "Church" does still make beleive that all de baby rapers they have disguised as men of God are probably, on de whole, ah bad thing, they are not half as Satanic as stuff like condoms, socialism and gender equality.  hahahahahaha  Boy f**k dem and anyone who trying to defend that ka-ka hole organization eh.

Well,breds the sins of the FATHERS haunting the cyat to lick church!
Breds, yuh still didn't answer my Q. i will repeat, where in the catholic creed does it state that it's OK to sodomize/ victimize children?

i doh have no beef wid you saying that the "CHURCH" does condone attacks on it's parishoners without very little repramand, yes, with that i'm in full agreement, but tuh say the whole religion is @ fault, iz just not fair.

lemme ask yuh this, did jesus molest children? BC jesus is the one who these ppl( church goers) claim too follow, not the clergy. and if you show me conclusive proof of misconduct on his path, then feel free tuh continue without any opposition from me,

but if yuh can't produce that evidence, then yuh should leave the religion out of it and place all yuh attention on the church and the clergy it self.

so unless you could show where jesus christ played with little children inappropriately, leave christianity be! but i know you can't do that , BC yuh just like yuh master, an accuser of the breddren! and if yuh can't find something ill about one religion, then no doubt you will jump on another.

your problem is not really wid the church or religion, your problem iz with God, and the possible existence of ah god! and the more you could air the dirt of any faith, the more yuh justify your disbelief to your self.

breds in truth , you don't need tuh go through all that to convince your self, just do you , who cares what ppl think, after all it's your life. just live and let live.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 03:53:47 AM by just cool »
The pen is mightier than the sword, Africa for Africans home and abroad.Trinidad is not my home just a pit stop, Africa is my destination,final destination the MOST HIGH.

truetrini

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #148 on: March 21, 2010, 08:02:00 PM »
lol..I doh believe it have ah God, so when people trying to say that they is the true faith and then rape chirren f**k dem.  HYPOCRITES!

It does not say that slavery was wrong in the constitution either, so what if the church doh say it all right to f**k kiddies?

The fact is dey know it wrong and dey hide it, so if they hiding it and not prosecuting the offendin child molesters what does dat say? 

If yuh doing crime yuh eh go advertise it.  FACT IS MANY pedophiles know where to find chirren to rape, they become catholic priests,  dey know dey go get away with it, the church go use it significant influence and might to hide dem and forgive dem and den reward dem by placing dem in new places to get new chirren!

I do not pretend to have a serious problem with religion, as I doh see it serving any real useful purpose other than to subjugate mankind.

IF you walk around saying dat raping children is a sin and wrong yet yuh continously hiding child rapers, protecting dem from the law, and then moving dem to places where they can readily abuse again...tell me what does that say about you?  ANd is not a few yuh hiding, is not a short time yuh doing it, is since yuh start yuh church from all accords.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: More Christian love.
« Reply #149 on: March 21, 2010, 08:36:33 PM »
JC, I eh presuming to speak on behalf of TC, but the problem with the Roman Catholic church is more that just "ah few miscreants".   Time and time again, the priests who abused and mistreated the vulnerable in their congregation were simply shuffled to another Parish to repeat their sins, all with the knowledge of the hierarchy.

So the sins have long reaching tentacles that go all the way to the top.

Where TC and I disagree is that religion is bad. The problem is with the people who practice the religion.  Some get it right and many get it wrong. 
well said Pecan

Just Cool when the Leaders of any church, continually aid, abet, and harbor these criminals, it is the leaders who should be then charged....it is MANY years this goin on eh
But because it is The largest Christian Religion these leaders are not charged by the International Police.

Hear nuh, there was a priest who was sent here to the west coast about 5 years ago, Only 5 years ago, to teach in a Grade school....lemme repeat..........a GRADE SCHOOL
when a reporter started to investigate why a priest from the east coast of the USA was sent here, he Suddenly disappeared. The reporter continued her investigation and found out the the American and Canadian leaders of the RC Church kept his RECORD hidden and never informed the people here on the west coast....what you say about ALL them RC Leaders who made his move here possible
eh....what do you have to say
I really doh mean to single you out...I apologise
it is geared more to the SHEEP of that organisation who just ACCEPT what is going on and say NOTHING
Millions and Millions of members of the RC church MUST be right...ent??

You support the Ideology of the church, BUT the leaders of that same church do not follow their leader Jesus Christ
Where did christ say to do what they did during the spanish inquisition
where did Christ say to do what they did to "natives" of the new worlds when they cut off hands, legs and killed "natives" when they refused to "convert" to christianity.
Did christ preach what they did during the crusades.....killing innocent muslims
Did christ preach covering up the terrible things that priests have done to children
Did christ preach any of these things ???

NO ?? well then it is the Leadership of the church over the years, ever since Constantine took the religion under his care, that have failed.....yet no leader does what is right...not one
But I will say that they LOVE their religion steeped in ceremony and pomp.......it is just that all this distracts from the true preachings of their leader "JC"
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 09:07:51 PM by WestCoast »
Whatever you do, do it to the purpose; do it thoroughly, not superficially. Go to the bottom of things. Any thing half done, or half known, is in my mind, neither done nor known at all. Nay, worse, for it often misleads.
Lord Chesterfield
(1694 - 1773)

 

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