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Offline Flex

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Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
« on: January 10, 2008, 09:45:08 AM »
Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
By: Lasana Liburd (Express).
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Former England and Liverpool star John Barnes hailed the Caribbean as arguably the last relatively untapped resource for football talent in the world and insisted the region's youth needed only discipline, attitude and opportunity to succeed.
Barnes, a two-time English domestic champion and FA Cup winner with Liverpool, is in Guyana at present where he spearheads the Digicel Kick Start clinic that will roll through eight Caribbean islands over the next three months.
The Digicel clinic has already formed a partnership with England Premier League team, Sunderland, and, in April, Barnes will select six talented under-20 players from throughout the region for a weeklong training stint with the Sunderland Academy. Barnes held his first session on Monday in Georgetown and feels certain that he is in for an exciting time and that Sunderland would benefit from the programme, which was initiated by the Irish-based wireless telecommunication company and endorsed by FIFA vice-president Jack Warner.
"Africa has been saturated with scouts and coaches and you can see that they are now well represented all over Europe," said Barnes.
"It is time for the Caribbean to get that opportunity.
"I think (the Digicel clinic) provides a wonderful opportunity and great exposure for these youngsters but the best thing is that they would play alongside top class youth players and realise that they are no better than them."
Barnes is living testimony of his boast. He was 13 when he left his native Jamaica for London with his Trinidad-born dad, Colonel Ken Barnes.
Within four years, he had already debuted professionally with Watford.
Barnes is living testimony of his boast. He was 13 when he left his native Jamaica for London with his Trinidadian-born dad, Colonel Ken Barnes.
Within four years, he had already debuted professionally with Watford and went on to win 79 caps for England.
"I didn't start playing at 13 and get good at 17," he said. "The truth is that I could already play in Jamaica."
Sunderland might not need convincing.
The self-titled "Black Cats" are led by Trinidad and Tobago's World Cup captain Dwight Yorke, while fellow "Soca Warriors" Kenwyne Jones and Carlos Edward are arguably the most valuable players on the club's books.
The 44-year-old Barnes was in the running to be Trinidad and Tobago national coach too although the local Federation chose the more experienced Colombian Francisco Maturana instead.
Thus far, Barnes' coaching resume includes only one disastrous stint at top Scottish Premiership club, Celtic, seven years ago.
He argued that his English roots did not help while, as a first time manager, he did not get the response he wanted from his players.
There has been no second chance yet but he has not given up. "I can see myself as a successful football coach wherever I go," he said.
"It doesn't have to be a big national team or club."
« Last Edit: January 10, 2008, 10:18:45 AM by Flex »
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Offline Football supporter

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Re: Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2008, 04:11:17 PM »
I'm not sure about the Caribbean being the last untapped resource for football talent.

Academies are springing up in India, China and Eastern Europe. Statistically, these areas, particularly India & China, will produce more quality players than any other country in the world.

If you consider that Trinidad has 3 premiership players out of a population of under 1.5 million, using the formula of one player per 500,000 population, 1billion people should produce between 200 and 2000 premiership quality players (depending on your definition of a billion).

The only reason this hasn't happened before is that there has been no money spent on development. I, personally, am involved in academy developments in South Africa, Ghana, Goa and Easten Europe. I am also trying to arrange for academy places for T&T youngsters.

These academies, aside from developing football skills, will also provide education including language skills, coaching badges and even life skills, such as cooking.

Offline weary1969

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Re: Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2008, 09:42:11 PM »
Barnes tyin 4 Brownie pts
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Offline Bourbon

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Re: Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2008, 10:12:25 PM »
I will always say the absence of a coherent youth system will cause us to underachieve for a long while. We have the potential...no doubt about it....but.....we not utilizing it as we should. Then we wonder why our players average age are higher than most teams.....close to the thirty's......and where the next latapy coming from. Thing is...who's responsibility is it? The Clubs? The Schools? The TTFF? Or all of the above?
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Offline FLi !

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Re: Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2008, 10:41:57 AM »

Chk this out guys....an example of how to properly use oil money for the development of football...

http://www.aspire.qa/topics/index.asp?level=1&temp_type=44

It is Qatar's ASIPRE or Achieving Sports Excellence Centre....just take a look at the facilities and look at their vision for development of football in the region.
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Offline Dinner Mints

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Re: Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2008, 11:27:38 AM »
The self-titled "Black Cats" are led by Trinidad and Tobago's World Cup captain Dwight Yorke, while fellow "Soca Warriors" Kenwyne Jones and Carlos Edward are arguably the most valuable players on the club's books.
Ahm... this sentence is untrue in almost every way.

Offline duscam

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Re: Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2008, 11:47:08 AM »
disagree FPATT-
how many 100 metre gold medalist india and china have?
how many quadruple olympic medalists?
how many miss universe?
how many pitch lakes  :devil:
 
it has never been about quantity but quality...you need to RECOGNISE....

based on your maths USA should have won a world cup by now....

Trinis have a natural talent...natural...just like brazilians...it have something to do with the soca.... :rotfl:
and you shouldnt waste the people money on india and china when you could bring that money in trinidad. one last point..with all them people doesn't Trinidad have more citizens playing in England- counting championship and league one etc than both china and india combined....
as beenie say 2 + 2 doh always = 4...at least in football
« Last Edit: January 11, 2008, 11:50:01 AM by duscam »

Offline palos

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Re: Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2008, 12:48:54 PM »
A man bawl Pitch Lake & Ms Universe yes...

Well yes padnah.....TEK WIN!!!  :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Offline Lionpaw

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Re: Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2008, 12:52:45 PM »
disagree FPATT-
how many 100 metre gold medalist india and china have?
how many quadruple olympic medalists?
how many miss universe?
how many pitch lakes  :devil:
 
it has never been about quantity but quality...you need to RECOGNISE....

based on your maths USA should have won a world cup by now....

Trinis have a natural talent...natural...just like brazilians...it have something to do with the soca.... :rotfl:
and you shouldnt waste the people money on india and china when you could bring that money in trinidad. one last point..with all them people doesn't Trinidad have more citizens playing in England- counting championship and league one etc than both china and india combined....
as beenie say 2 + 2 doh always = 4...at least in football

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Offline Football supporter

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Re: Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2008, 03:47:26 PM »
disagree FPATT-
how many 100 metre gold medalist india and china have?
how many quadruple olympic medalists?
how many miss universe?
how many pitch lakes  :devil:
 
it has never been about quantity but quality...you need to RECOGNISE....

based on your maths USA should have won a world cup by now....

Trinis have a natural talent...natural...just like brazilians...it have something to do with the soca.... :rotfl:
and you shouldnt waste the people money on india and china when you could bring that money in trinidad. one last point..with all them people doesn't Trinidad have more citizens playing in England- counting championship and league one etc than both china and india combined....
as beenie say 2 + 2 doh always = 4...at least in football


Duscam, you totally misread the point i was making. The reason there have been no atheletes as you described is because there has never been any money put into the development of those sports. There is a direct correlation between investment in sport and results. For instance, India produce great squash players and the Chinese great gymnasts. Traditionally, nations direct their investments towards their national sports. Thats why you never see a great African swimmer or a world class English baseball star.

Football will never be USAs number 1 mens sport, so there will never be enough spent on development to win a World Cup. However, the money put into the game in the 70's & 80's is producing better quality players now.

However, money was poured into womens football, and they are World Cup winning standard.

Now investors have recognised that countries such as India and China can produce quality footballers if the raw talent is developed. As I mentioned, I am trying to create openings for Trini youths, however, those people that are investing in these projects feel slightly different to you regarding untapped talent. As it is their personal money at stake, they can "waste" it where they see fit.

However, if you have any friends who have access to £100,000, please ask them to contact me immediately, as this is their opportunity to invest in T&Ts footballing future.

Regarding your comment about quality vs quantity, that is a very shortsighted view. The larger the pool of players, the more quality players you will produce....providing there is good quality coaching and development. You don't set out to produce 11 great players with 11 youths. Even Chelseas youth programme only produces on average 1 First Team player per year. The rest filter down through the divisions. Perhaps that backs up your theory about natural talent?

However, I will concede that a "smaller" nation could produce one team capable of beating the world, but I don't believe they would be consistent over the years, as there would be no strength in depth.

Offline Deeks

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Re: Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2008, 04:19:25 PM »
Holland(a small nation) does!!!

Offline Football supporter

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Re: Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2008, 04:57:49 PM »
Holland(a small nation) does!!!

Actually, Deeks, Holland kind of proves my point. Excellent development, but not enough quantity. Holland have not really got a good World Cup record. To me, consistency means Brazil, Germany, Argentina and Italy. I would also argue that Mexico & France are on the edge of that group.

I suppose Englands record is probably about right if you consider the population vs WC performance ratio. Maybe someone here could produce a formula that equates population and World Cup success?

Offline Observer

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Re: Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2008, 07:13:37 AM »
Holland(a small nation) does!!!

Actually, Deeks, Holland kind of proves my point. Excellent development, but not enough quantity. Holland have not really got a good World Cup record. To me, consistency means Brazil, Germany, Argentina and Italy. I would also argue that Mexico & France are on the edge of that group.

I suppose Englands record is probably about right if you consider the population vs WC performance ratio. Maybe someone here could produce a formula that equates population and World Cup success?

How you could say Holland No! Mexico Yes! Don't understand. Holland have been to two WC finals and have been in the final 4 on a couple occasions. If that is not good enough (for a small  Nation) then what is? Only 7 Nations have won a WC, so if its winning then everyone else is a failure.


On another note the Qatar project is for all sports and its quite ambitious
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Re: Barnes: Caribbean can match European talent.
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2008, 10:26:30 AM »
Holland(a small nation) does!!!

Actually, Deeks, Holland kind of proves my point. Excellent development, but not enough quantity. Holland have not really got a good World Cup record. To me, consistency means Brazil, Germany, Argentina and Italy. I would also argue that Mexico & France are on the edge of that group.

I suppose Englands record is probably about right if you consider the population vs WC performance ratio. Maybe someone here could produce a formula that equates population and World Cup success?

How you could say Holland No! Mexico Yes! Don't understand. Holland have been to two WC finals and have been in the final 4 on a couple occasions. If that is not good enough (for a small  Nation) then what is? Only 7 Nations have won a WC, so if its winning then everyone else is a failure.


On another note the Qatar project is for all sports and its quite ambitious

Observer, I was talking about recent history!  Over the last 20 years, look at their WC histories.

06  Mex rd2   Eng Q/F  Hol rd2
02  Mex rd2   Eng Q/F  Hol DNQ
98  Mex rd2   Eng  rd2  Hol S/F
94  Mex rd2   Eng DNQ Hol Q/F
90  Mex DNQ Eng  S/F  Hol rd2
86  Mex Q/F  Eng  Q/F  Hol DNQ

If you gave 1 point for rd2, 2 points for Q/F and 3 points for S/F  and minus 1 for not qualifying you would get England 9 points, Mexico and Holland 5 points.

Looking at those numbers, perhaps was wrong to include Mexico above Holland. But then again, I was also wrong not to include England!

 

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