If Bertil was the coach and getting the same results ....

[jai john]

...would we have been this patient ? ..and listening to a series of excuses ?
If this was a primary school and you child was in the class would you as a parent accept that the school didn´t have the best facilities or students ? ..... ever visited el dorado hindu school or  Rosary boys ? they get excellent results in spite of lack of so may basic things ...why ?? ...they have good dedicated teachers who stop at nothing to see their children succeed....and they know what they are about ! maybe I am expecting too much from someone( this foreign coach ...and I am not against foreign coaches ,,.,just this one ) who is not really connected to the trinidad experience.

[Sam]

Wim results isn't bad ?, what, one lose ? man behave yuhself nah....

Bertille was a blasted dunce.... I hope Bertille dont come close to T&T football again. And he could take Warner, Camps, Gorden and Anton with him too.

Give Wim de chance to atleast fail before yuh flap yuh beak nah.

[Filho]

...would we have been this patient ? ..and listening to a series of excuses ?
If this was a primary school and you child was in the class would you as a parent accept that the school didn´t have the best facilities or students ? ..... ever visited el dorado hindu school or  Rosary boys ? they get excellent results in spite of lack of so may basic things ...why ?? ...they have good dedicated teachers who stop at nothing to see their children succeed....and they know what they are about ! maybe I am expecting too much from someone( this foreign coach ...and I am not against foreign coaches ,,.,just this one ) who is not really connected to the trinidad experience.

Jai..yuh know yuh football better than that. Bertille got a lot more patience than this. We played terribly under him through friendlies, through the Digicel Cup, through the semi finals of the Hex and through 3 games in the Hex where we got 1 point from 2 home games and destroyed in Guatemala away. Come on...Wim eh even get to take us through a lil competition nutten and men bawling. Despite what people saying..Wim getting the exact results from friendles thaht should be expected with the team we have. Sure Austria was a lil' disapoointing..but who thought we were really going to hit an in-form St. Vincent for 5 after they just beat Jamaica and had more time to gel through competition. Under Bertille we look far worse against the same Vincentians...If Wim not good..he not good... but 4 friendlies is not enough to go on. Yuh have to give a coaching staff some time to settle...maybe we doh ahve the luxury of too much time. But after 2 losses, 1 tie and a win...it is ridiculous to be calling for the man head

[Observer]

Its just noise. People were up in arms when the team did poorly at the Gold Cup. Any coach needs time to build and T&T is in a brand new phase. The aging players have to be replaced and the new players need experience through these International games. What is the rush? Now if two years down the road you cannot see improvement then maybe begin to ask serious questions.

[grskywalker]

...would we have been this patient ? ..and listening to a series of excuses ?
If this was a primary school and you child was in the class would you as a parent accept that the school didn´t have the best facilities or students ? ..... ever visited el dorado hindu school or  Rosary boys ? they get excellent results in spite of lack of so may basic things ...why ?? ...they have good dedicated teachers who stop at nothing to see their children succeed....and they know what they are about ! maybe I am expecting too much from someone( this foreign coach ...and I am not against foreign coaches ,,.,just this one ) who is not really connected to the trinidad experience.

Explain the Trinidad experience? Is it the experience of failing to qualify a couple dozen times at every level prior to the 2006 World Cup, doh make me laugh nah!. Having used both local and foreign coaches.
I don't know what your point is, players on the whole have to show commitment and dedication to the game and force themselves to bring it when the big games come! Give Wim and dem a chance to get it together and we will review in a year's time to go over the results of his tenure

[Tallman]

But after 2 losses, 1 tie and a win...it is ridiculous to be calling for the man head

Is 2 losses and 2 wins.

[jai john]

Its just noise. People were up in arms when the team did poorly at the Gold Cup. Any coach needs time to build and T&T is in a brand new phase. The aging players have to be replaced and the new players need experience through these International games. What is the rush? Now if two years down the road you cannot see improvement then maybe begin to ask serious questions.

Let us make a comparison on approaches and expectations here .... Brazil, favourites to win the WC, had a disappointing tournament and hired a new coach to rebuild. They have not lost in a warm up in this transition although bringing in new players. Question is why not ? ...they are rebuilding are they not ? Answer they made a smooth transition because they have systems in place for the next incursion to any tournament.
In our case we use the younger players on our losing teams to form the basis for the next. This approach means you always build from a base of losers...was it you who said winning and losing is a habit ?...... with no developmental team structure in place for the next competition.
There should be a team in preparation which will accomadate the younger players of the losing team not vice versa. The base of the team will be the young players. I feel I can speak now because our approach is the same as in post 1989 when the remnants of the strike squad was supposed to form the next  base for the '98 tournament. You know how that went ...94 for sure was followed by 98 will be great..then 2002 for true etc. Dont let good fortune and a good draw  pull wool over your eyes.

we can be overawed by our qualification but we came 4th in the CONcacaf tournament qualifying in a playoff with bahrain themselves playoff candidates and smaller in size than us ! The way some people talk if you had awaken from a long sleep you would have felt that we won the concacaf or even qualified fot The WC directly.
If you fail to plan ...plan to fail ! Sure you can succeed at times withot proper preparation ...it happens as every student would know...but it should not be the basis on which you expect to move foward.
We always plan for the next WC but I say the next WC is to close for any marked improvement to take place. We then wait until the end of that one to plan for the next.
When you want to stop litering you educate the next generation !!! Adults are set in their ways ...it takes time for the results of change to manisfest itself but what are we trying to change here ? We are doing the same things ...so why should we expect different  results ?
I dont have to give time to a sitution that is the same when I have seen the results so many times before.
The big footballing countries want to see things done diifferently if their expectations are not met  ...and for that they will wait for results but not too long either. We on the other hand will  accept the same thing from a differnt person and That's OK.

until I see the light this train is not leaving the tunnel ...convince me otherwise.

[Filho]

But after 2 losses, 1 tie and a win...it is ridiculous to be calling for the man head

Is 2 losses and 2 wins.

Thanks breds....my mistake

[palos]

Jai..yuh know yuh football better than that.

You makin some serious assumptions dey bro. 

[jai john]

Jai..yuh know yuh football better than that.

You makin some serious assumptions dey bro. 

At least ah eh moonlihting for de TTFF on de side. 

There are non so blind as those who will not see ! .. how much longer are you pepared to wait for this horse to hit the tins ? So far he looking like ah dead horse to me ..... as de ole people used o say ...full ah talk and dat is all !

[Trini _2026]

Jai..yuh know yuh football better than that.

You makin some serious assumptions dey bro. 

At least ah eh moonlihting for de TTFF on de side. 

There are non so blind as those who will not see ! .. how much longer are you pepared to wait for this horse to hit the tins ? So far he looking like ah dead horse to me ..... as de ole people used o say ...full ah talk and dat is all !

yuh know what i guess you was expecting a victory again austria

[Lower St. John]

Let us make a comparison on approaches and expectations here .... Brazil, favourites to win the WC, had a disappointing tournament and hired a new coach to rebuild. They have not lost in a warm up in this transition although bringing in new players. Question is why not ? ...they are rebuilding are they not ? Answer they made a smooth transition because they have systems in place for the next incursion to any tournament.

Anytime men using Brazil as a comparison to Trinbago in football, dey loose a lot of credibility.

Forget system with Brazil and mention talent first.

Jai..yuh know yuh football better than that.

You makin some serious assumptions dey bro.

Blessings

[TRUwarrior]

Trini Footballers eh takin on ah local coach anyway...leave wim let him build with the team

[jai john]

Jai..yuh know yuh football better than that.

You makin some serious assumptions dey bro. 

At least ah eh moonlihting for de TTFF on de side. 

There are non so blind as those who will not see ! .. how much longer are you pepared to wait for this horse to hit the tins ? So far he looking like ah dead horse to me ..... as de ole people used o say ...full ah talk and dat is all !

yuh know what i guess you was expecting a victory again austria

I was expecting a different approach to planning and preparation given the amount of money being given for football these days. I would expect the same thing of any organisation controlling millions of taxpayers money.... but you have seem me write this already but again you have your people to defend..dont you ?

Let me give you an example of a plan ..Venezuela was  known as one of worst sporting countries in South America.... except for baseball their sportsmen and women don't set world stages aliight. Two years ago the president made an oil for sports coaches deal with Cuba. venezuela put 5000 cuban coaches from different disciplines in various parts of the country.
Last week the president was able to boast that Venezuela, normally last amng the nations, was leading in gold medals in the south american games leaving big countries like Brazil, argentina and colombia behind.
Could we not take an approach that is less hit and miss than that followed for years ? we still looking to discover another latapy by guess...at this rate if he does not drop from the sky it will never happen ..well i was there when Latapy was trying out for the under 14 team . Dwight was also on that team...the point is these stars were made from young.....they played on every T&T age group team before the senior team.
Today we want corn now so we plant big trees ignoring the examples of those who are sucessful...
I couldn't care less about Austria, or St Vincent or panama but I care about our young footballers who are left to fend for themselves until a tournament draws close. how many times have you heard that the TTFF have a programme of succession planning and when a tournament is nearly underway dey still sceening for players ?
If that appoach suits you then dont stop de music ...
Would we not be better served if we selected lets say 10 coaches to train abroad or to select 10 coaches from abroad to work two in each zone, and two in Tobago , to work with the local coaches to correct our players deficiencies at an early age ? Imagine Wim is saying we start too slow and men defending dat ! Well if that is so and everyone agrees, talking about it wont solve anything would it ? nor would it change in the next 100 years if all we do is talk ..So I have suggeted two possible solutions that I have seen work ... but you may still be satisfied with present arrangements???

[fari]

Jai..yuh know yuh football better than that.

You makin some serious assumptions dey bro. 

At least ah eh moonlihting for de TTFF on de side. 

There are non so blind as those who will not see ! .. how much longer are you pepared to wait for this horse to hit the tins ? So far he looking like ah dead horse to me ..... as de ole people used o say ...full ah talk and dat is all !

yuh know what i guess you was expecting a victory again austria

I was expecting a different approach to planning and preparation given the amount of money being given for football these days. I would expect the same thing of any organisation controlling millions of taxpayers money.... but you have seem me write this already but again you have your people to defend..dont you ?

Let me give you an example of a plan ..Venezuela was  known as one of worst sporting countries in South America.... except for baseball their sportsmen and women don't set world stages aliight. Two years ago the president made an oil for sports coaches deal with Cuba. venezuela put 5000 cuban coaches from different disciplines in various parts of the country.
Last week the president was able to boast that Venezuela, normally last amng the nations, was leading in gold medals in the south american games leaving big countries like Brazil, argentina and colombia behind.
Could we not take an approach that is less hit and miss than that followed for years ? we still looking to discover another latapy by guess...at this rate if he does not drop from the sky it will never happen ..well i was there when Latapy was trying out for the under 14 team . Dwight was also on that team...the point is these stars were made from young.....they played on every T&T age group team before the senior team.
Today we want corn now so we plant big trees ignoring the examples of those who are sucessful...
I couldn't care less about Austria, or St Vincent or panama but I care about our young footballers who are left to fend for themselves until a tournament draws close. how many times have you heard that the TTFF have a programme of succession planning and when a tournament is nearly underway dey still sceening for players ?
If that appoach suits you then dont stop de music ...
Would we not be better served if we selected lets say 10 coaches to train abroad or to select 10 coaches from abroad to work two in each zone, and two in Tobago , to work with the local coaches to correct our players deficiencies at an early age ? Imagine Wim is saying we start too slow and men defending dat ! Well if that is so and everyone agrees, talking about it wont solve anything would it ? nor would it change in the next 100 years if all we do is talk ..So I have suggeted two possible solutions that I have seen work ... but you may still be satisfied with present arrangements???

which local coaches??  didn't beenhakker have a clinic of some sort and nobody showed up?? (correct me if i am wrong)     local coaches, especially the older ones are set in their ways, they feel they know it all.  i am not sold on wim...yet, but it is still too early for all this hullabaloo...the sky is not falling down...yet

[ribbit]

jai john, ah cyah figure if you addressing wim or the football administration. or are you suggesting wim is primarily responsible for the football administration? (which i don't believe is the case)

so if wim got on ignorant and demand teams at all level be in training all year and battle pfl and administration to get all levels training without support from the benefactors (warner et al) yuh would have more respeck for him? ah would too. but which coach gone and throw wuk away like dat?

[Remie]

St. Clair had 35 games in charge in his most recent stint as manager of T&T. Wim has had 4 games so it is unreasonable to compare the two. We know that after the 35 games in charge that St Clair had T&T were a poor team but we just do not know what sort of team T&T will be under Wim. We have to wait and see. When Wim has a full squad available and we are playing competitive matches then we will see what he is made of. He could be shit, he could be good, we just dont know? Now that Wim has been given the job lets give him a fair chance.

With regard to matters off the football field it is just unrealistic to expect a man from foreign to come and revamp the whole structure of T&T football when he is only here for 4 years maximum and whos main goal is to get us qualification to the World Cup in 2010. Matters off the football field are the job of various sections of the TTFF.

[dcs]

St. Clair had 35 games in charge in his most recent stint as manager of T&T. Wim has had 4 games so it is unreasonable to compare the two.

exactly
end of story.

[Marky NYC]

Wim results isn't bad ?, what, one lose ? man behave yuhself nah....

Bertille was a blasted dunce.... I hope Bertille dont come close to T&T football again. And he could take Warner, Camps, Gorden and Anton with him too.

Give Wim de chance to atleast fail before yuh flap yuh beak nah.

Yo Sam pardon my ignorance but who is this sexy woman you always have in your post.

[Sam]

Yo Sam pardon my ignorance but who is this sexy woman you always have in your post.

She is man babys mother.... sorry, but she's taken.... 

[trinikev]

St. Clair had 35 games in charge in his most recent stint as manager of T&T. Wim has had 4 games so it is unreasonable to compare the two. We know that after the 35 games in charge that St Clair had T&T were a poor team but we just do not know what sort of team T&T will be under Wim. We have to wait and see. When Wim has a full squad available and we are playing competitive matches then we will see what he is made of. He could be shit, he could be good, we just dont know? Now that Wim has been given the job lets give him a fair chance.

 
Couldn't have said it better myself

[fitzinho]

I figure jai john is really Kent welch

[dumpalewie]

Its just noise. People were up in arms when the team did poorly at the Gold Cup. Any coach needs time to build and T&T is in a brand new phase. The aging players have to be replaced and the new players need experience through these International games. What is the rush? Now if two years down the road you cannot see improvement then maybe begin to ask serious questions.

Let us make a comparison on approaches and expectations here .... Brazil, favourites to win the WC, had a disappointing tournament and hired a new coach to rebuild. They have not lost in a warm up in this transition although bringing in new players. Question is why not ? ...they are rebuilding are they not ? Answer they made a smooth transition because they have systems in place for the next incursion to any tournament.
In our case we use the younger players on our losing teams to form the basis for the next. This approach means you always build from a base of losers...was it you who said winning and losing is a habit ?...... with no developmental team structure in place for the next competition.
There should be a team in preparation which will accomadate the younger players of the losing team not vice versa. The base of the team will be the young players. I feel I can speak now because our approach is the same as in post 1989 when the remnants of the strike squad was supposed to form the next  base for the '98 tournament. You know how that went ...94 for sure was followed by 98 will be great..then 2002 for true etc. Dont let good fortune and a good draw  pull wool over your eyes.

we can be overawed by our qualification but we came 4th in the CONcacaf tournament qualifying in a playoff with bahrain themselves playoff candidates and smaller in size than us ! The way some people talk if you had awaken from a long sleep you would have felt that we won the concacaf or even qualified fot The WC directly.
If you fail to plan ...plan to fail ! Sure you can succeed at times withot proper preparation ...it happens as every student would know...but it should not be the basis on which you expect to move foward.
We always plan for the next WC but I say the next WC is to close for any marked improvement to take place. We then wait until the end of that one to plan for the next.
When you want to stop litering you educate the next generation !!! Adults are set in their ways ...it takes time for the results of change to manisfest itself but what are we trying to change here ? We are doing the same things ...so why should we expect different  results ?
I dont have to give time to a sitution that is the same when I have seen the results so many times before.
The big footballing countries want to see things done diifferently if their expectations are not met  ...and for that they will wait for results but not too long either. We on the other hand will  accept the same thing from a differnt person and That's OK.

until I see the light this train is not leaving the tunnel ...convince me otherwise.

You just using a bunch of cliches but not really saying anything.

The systems for youth developement that you deride have never existed. The current coaching that you despise helped us qualify-for and overachieve at the WC. Let's be real here. Brazil failed!! We did better than expected.

Present a solution!

[fishs]

 

  JAI JOHN doh worry with de jokers in here.

  In 6 months yuh going to be able to look back at this and tell them " ah told you so".

 Wimp is a geniuis.

[Sam]

 

  JAI JOHN doh worry with de jokers in here.

  In 6 months yuh going to be able to look back at this and tell them " ah told you so".

 Wimp is a geniuis.

Where these clowns does come out from boy.... is like they dying for de man to fail. Allyuh real dotish we.

Nobody eh say de man is de best thing, but he is de coach right now, support him until he actually fail. If allyuh like Bertille St Clair, then go and play for him, dont bring that here, even if Wim fail, I still not in support of Bertille or any local coach to be T&T's head coach, they to dam dunce and narrow minded. They need to improve FIRST !!!

[Lower St. John]

What is the perfect remedy for men on this forum?? 

Seriously, men like to talk about developing new talent in the National team but don't like the results that come with it.

I am no Bertille fan but at one point in time Bertille had an all local team.  With the fact that he can't necessarily coach his way out of a box and the level of talent on the team, the results were what they were.  Piss poor.  Bertille struggle to beat teams like SVG (even with the foreign players), who we just put 5 on when they were on a real high.

Wim coach the team in four games and slowly but surely starting to expose some new players.  The results against higher quality opposition is not great but what did you guys really expect??  Do we have unrealistic expectations of the team with the foreign players?

Face facts guys, for what ever reason the players in the PFL are not up to International standards.  Will that change overnight?  No.  Will Wim take us to the promise land?  I don't know. 

But stop and think who is responsible for the level of play in the PFL/who is responsible for improving the players in the PFL and at home, the same local coaches that crying down Wim (and gaining support from many men on this forum). 

Give Wim a chance, or all yuh like the late 90s when yuh have to ask every morning when yuh get up "Who is the national coach?" since Jack was dusting them off left right and center (revolving doors of coaches).  We need some stability and consistency at the head coach position to make an informed judgement on how we are progressing (or not) as a team?

Blessings

[Filho]

 

  JAI JOHN doh worry with de jokers in here.

  In 6 months yuh going to be able to look back at this and tell them " ah told you so".

 Wimp is a geniuis.

That is not the point. Those of us who disagree with Jai are not saying that Wim is a great coach. We just believe that he should be given more time and his results do not justify all this criticism after 4 games. He is also being blamed for things that are not his fault and he is somehow expected to do things that are neither feasible nor are they his responsibility. Unfortunately, Jai's is being incoherent with his argument, at times blaming Wim for issures that are clearly the sole responsibility of theTTFF.

Anyhow, why would you want to see Wim crash and burn in 6 months? Jt so you could come on the forum to say 'I told you so' ? Keep the schoolboy mentality in school and stick to the topic.

[Fantastic]

Cyah say ah believe Bertille was a good coach, but ah think while Beenhaker did a solid job of organizing and instilling discipline, the plate was set by Jack for him like no other coach(foreign or local) had it before. Jack supported him in his decisions affecting players(which is what the players never feared with previous coaches), and the concacaf group was so poor that is was hard not to qualify with the route that we had and a playoff spot to boot. Ah will still give Beenie his props though, cause he did it and no one had done it before. Wim, on the other hand, while I agree that he hasn't has a decent opportunity to improve the team as yet, shoulda been kicked out of Trinidad for some of comments about our players and his obvious disrespect for our country. What was de comment about rocks and diamonds? we have to be careful about highly paid  mercenary coaches looking to use we country to advance they own career. Beenie didn't take long to head out did he? He never really tried to give Trini a chance to go to de second rd in de world cup. Even after we tied Sweden he was more concerned with just respectable scorelines than giving them a chance to advance. Whether they could have held on against england or beaten paraguay we will never know. Just seems odd that Latas playing 90 mins regular for a team that didn't see any need for theobald who was used before latas in de world cup. Latas borrow some 20year old legs after de world cup or what? Hopefully things will change, but somehow it leaves a sour taste in mih mouth to have a coach that like de job and de pay but seemingly not too respectful of we country. Maybe that rogue Nakhid really right about something after all. Also, could somebody capture kent welch and drop him off in st. ann's please.

Thank yuh

[truetrini]

The point is from what I learn is dat Wim involved in ah lot ah de shit dat plaguing T&T football.

But dat is all hearsay!

I jes doh like him at all.

[fishs]

 

  JAI JOHN doh worry with de jokers in here.

  In 6 months yuh going to be able to look back at this and tell them " ah told you so".

 Wimp is a geniuis.

Where these clowns does come out from boy.... is like they dying for de man to fail. Allyuh real dotish we.

Nobody eh say de man is de best thing, but he is de coach right now, support him until he actually fail. If allyuh like Bertille St Clair, then go and play for him, dont bring that here, even if Wim fail, I still not in support of Bertille or any local coach to be T&T's head coach, they to dam dunce and narrow minded. They need to improve FIRST !!!

Breds I was a Bertille supporter until I saw T&T play in the digigel cup last year. Actually saw him and the team in the airport in Barbados (we were on the same flight back). What I saw in the airport apart from the shyte on the field made me think that the old man was going senile and his days were numbered as coach to which I fully agreed.
So it ent fair for you to assume that I am putting Bertille ahead of the wimp, however I have no respect for this new coach since everything he has said and done comes across to me as if he is selfish, lazy, here for a easy ride or is just clueless.
Games are the measure of a coach at this stage I'm not even talking about winning or losing.
This imposter has to take a team to the 2010 WC and has not seen it fit to try to put some kind of LOCAL team together and train them.
Instead he simply says the fellas ent ready yet !!! So who getting them ready ?
He loses to Austria and talks about player speed and intensity, this is the same problem Leo had which he eventually fixed.
Our problem as Trinidadians is that we have not reached the stage where we can quickly identify competence or incompetence and take action.
So Sam hold on to the idea of giving this man time and whilst that happening valuable things going undone and money wasting.