International compensation is the future

[Tallman]

ESPN Soccernet

Manchester United chief executive David Gill is confident clubs will eventually strike a deal with the soccer authorities over compensation for international players.

United and their G14 counterparts are currently backing a court case brought by Belgian club Charleroi, who are seeking compensation for the eight-month absence of Abdelmajid Oulmers who tore ankle ligaments on international duty for Morocco.

The move has annoyed FIFA president Sepp Blatter, who has insisted clubs should not be paid to release players and has called on the Belgian FA to take sanctions against Charleroi.

However, Gill believes the clubs have a cast iron case for compensation, arguing competitions such as the World Cup and European Championship generate vast amounts of profit yet pay nothing for the stars involved.

'We have to come to an agreement,' Gill told Century FM.

'It may take time and it may involve some gnashing of teeth but we will get there in the end.

'The issue does not just involve big clubs and it is not an attack on the international game because we want players to represent their countries.

'But tournaments such as the World Cup and European Championship generate a billion Swiss francs yet the authorities get to use the assets who provide that income for free.

'There should be compensation for every club who provide players.'

[Filho]

The club vs. country conflict getting out of hand. It is a problem for everyone, not just the small nations like TnT.

I understand where the clubs coming from, but they can be a bit unreasonable. By having international players, they increase their marketability. That is they can sell more merchandise, command higher kit/gear contracts and TV contracts, pre-season appearance fees, etc. More people show up to watch the games, and their chances of winning the league, cups, qualifying for European competition increases. All this can potentially add millions of dollars each season to revenues. How's that for compensation?

[KND2]

This is a FIFA versus Club thing. The Clubs aim is not eventually ban all country football.

Man U and Them would be happy if there was no world cup

[kicker]

Man U and Them would be happy if there was no world cup

It's not that simple KND.....

This is a classic illustration of football being a business, and players being part property of their clubs and part property of their national football federations. Clubs recognize the benefit that they get from having international players, and they recognize the fact that major world tournaments present opportunities for marketing, scouting, exposure etc, so clubs would actually be unhappy if there were no major competitions................

but they also recognize that they the club have significant leverage over their assets (players), because the federations don't pay players nearly anything close to their club salaries. In addition a club's leverage over a player is dictated in a detailed contract, whereas a federation's leverage over a player is more honor based (I've never seen a player-nat'l federation agreement..not sure if it exists, but I'm almost sure there are way less guiding covenants in it than a club contract)

........ultimately it's like they say, the more you have, the more you want. The clubs want a bigger piece of the pie, and they are trying to justify it........

The basic concept of finance- risk vs return. The higher the risk the bigger the expected return. Clubs see players going off on int'l duty as a risk....they want a bigger return....The final outcome will depend on which association has higher leverage and influence over the player... it varies from club to club, and from player to player.....and that's the problem, a standard ruling on such an issue cannot and will not please everyone.

[Marcos]

The clubs have a bigger investment in the players. They in fact take all the risk, yet reap marginal rewards when a player plays for his country.
I think the point about the marketing etc.. effects of having international players is valid.
However,
These players get far more exposure playing for their clubs unless a large tournament such as a World Cup or Euro tournament is being played. Coincidentally, during the times that these tournaments are being played, all club football is on a break and managers have no problems with their players leaving for international duty.
I see international duty as being more profitable for the young and upcoming player than the established professional. So the club VS country problem really only applies to either
a) young players who are trying to build a reputation at their clubs, or
b) established stars risking injury in a "less important" match
Let's just say if I were a club owner and paid millions for a player, I would be more than mildly upset if I lost him for a year due to an injury picked up during a Digicel Cup game or even a WC qualifier.

[fordy]

marcos ah hear yuh...but hear this. the english league and scottish league have dis thing called work permit for international players. if u as an international player dont play ah certain amount of games for your national team then thats ah violation of yuh work permit and you can released from the club. so the system is set up for the players to play international games outside of world cup qualifiers. ah dont think stern and the other trinis in those leagues would be pressed to leave their clubs to play in every tournament de warriors play in. as a matter of fact its hard on them cause when the clubs dont see them for a period of time...then ah next man taking yuh spot. so all de hard work u put in b4 go to de dogs. so the fa needs to change their system b4 they can expect compensation for their players.

[Marcos]

Scene fordy.
I misinterpreted the work permit rule.
I thought you only needed a certain number of caps to initially get the permit.
I thought that after attaining it for the first time, international caps were no longer a prerequisite.
I dunno how Dwight didn't get any problems though cuz he didn't represent the country for a long time.
Boucaud too.

[fordy]

Scene fordy.
I misinterpreted the work permit rule.
I thought you only needed a certain number of caps to initially get the permit.
I thought that after attaining it for the first time, international caps were no longer a prerequisite.
I dunno how Dwight didn't get any problems though cuz he didn't represent the country for a long time.
Boucaud too.

cause dem fellas get english passport and dey didnt need no work permit. look at jason scotland. the first time he went b4 the scottish board thats y they denied him...not enough intl caps during his spell at the club.

[Filho]

It's not the number of caps that gets you a work permit in England. You must feature in at least 75% of your countries international games (friendlies or competitive) over the past 2 years (I might have the # of years wrong). So a man could play 10 games for TnT and not make it if TnT had 100 games in that period, but he would if he played 10 games and TnT only played 20 during the same period.

There are exceptions for injury or personal problems. Yakubu got his permit to play at Middlesborough because they proved that he would have played more games for Nigeria if he hadn't had personal problems with  a prior national coach. They even got the coach to sign a contract saying as much...saying it had nothing to do with his ability.....

In related news...that coach is now a millionaire...just kidding

[Coop's]

The club vs. country conflict getting out of hand. It is a problem for everyone, not just the small nations like TnT.

I understand where the clubs coming from, but they can be a bit unreasonable. By having international players, they increase their marketability. That is they can sell more merchandise, command higher kit/gear contracts and TV contracts, pre-season appearance fees, etc. More people show up to watch the games, and their chances of winning the league, cups, qualifying for European competition increases. All this can potentially add millions of dollars each season to revenues. How's that for compensation?

This can only be said for the big clubs in the big leagues and that's a small percentage of the amount of clubs that play all over the world.
  I've always looked at how these clubs sustain these players livelihood and when they need them can't have them and still have to continue paying salaries,it's unfair,if countries and FIFA wants them they have to pay too.

[Mose]

It's not the number of caps that gets you a work permit in England. You must feature in at least 75% of your countries international games (friendlies or competitive) over the past 2 years (I might have the # of years wrong). So a man could play 10 games for TnT and not make it if TnT had 100 games in that period, but he would if he played 10 games and TnT only played 20 during the same period.

Ah tink yuh get yuh numbers messed up Filho. 10/20 is still only 50%. I would have to be more like 12 or 13 games.

[fordy]

It's not the number of caps that gets you a work permit in England. You must feature in at least 75% of your countries international games (friendlies or competitive) over the past 2 years (I might have the # of years wrong). So a man could play 10 games for TnT and not make it if TnT had 100 games in that period, but he would if he played 10 games and TnT only played 20 during the same period.

There are exceptions for injury or personal problems. Yakubu got his permit to play at Middlesborough because they proved that he would have played more games for Nigeria if he hadn't had personal problems with  a prior national coach. They even got the coach to sign a contract saying as much...saying it had nothing to do with his ability.....

In related news...that coach is now a millionaire...just kidding

yeh filho...75% is the number.

[JERSEY TRINI]

It's not the number of caps that gets you a work permit in England. You must feature in at least 75% of your countries international games (friendlies or competitive) over the past 2 years (I might have the # of years wrong). So a man could play 10 games for TnT and not make it if TnT had 100 games in that period, but he would if he played 10 games and TnT only played 20 during the same period.

Ah tink yuh get yuh numbers messed up Filho. 10/20 is still only 50%. I would have to be more like 12 or 13 games.

You and all wrong the ratio is 15/20 that will give you 75%

[kicker]

It's not the number of caps that gets you a work permit in England. You must feature in at least 75% of your countries international games (friendlies or competitive) over the past 2 years (I might have the # of years wrong). So a man could play 10 games for TnT and not make it if TnT had 100 games in that period, but he would if he played 10 games and TnT only played 20 during the same period.

Ah tink yuh get yuh numbers messed up Filho. 10/20 is still only 50%. I would have to be more like 12 or 13 games.

You and all wrong the ratio is 15/20 that will give you 75%

I think Mose meant to correct Filho by saying 10 out of 12 or 13............not 12 or 13 out of 20..........10/13 is approx 77% (in the right ballpark)........but thanks for the math lesson Jersey Trini........ genius

[JERSEY TRINI]

Just a question but....what is 25% of 20? Anybody?

[Tallman]

It's not the number of caps that gets you a work permit in England. You must feature in at least 75% of your countries international games (friendlies or competitive) over the past 2 years (I might have the # of years wrong).

The following article outlines the criteria for a footballer to obtain a work permit in the UK:
Work Permit Arrangements for Football Players

[kicker]

Just a question but....what is 25% of 20? Anybody?

studio applause for the funny guy

25% of 20 = you being a smarta$$......... ........

No offense, but stick to the topic and post elementary math questions under a different thread

[JERSEY TRINI]

Just a question but....what is 25% of 20? Anybody?

studio applause for the funny guy

25% of 20 = you being a smarta$$......... ........

No offense, but stick to the topic and post elementary math questions under a different thread

Boy allyuh ass nah what you talking bout? Man trying to shout me out here and they dead wrong and I go sit here and look like I never went in a classroom or wah.  If you doh like it skip the post and move on....stueps man weh allyuh does come from in true.

[kicker]

Just a question but....what is 25% of 20? Anybody?

studio applause for the funny guy

25% of 20 = you being a smarta$$......... ........

No offense, but stick to the topic and post elementary math questions under a different thread

Boy allyuh ass nah what you talking bout? Man trying to shout me out here and they dead wrong and I go sit here and look like I never went in a classroom or wah.  If you doh like it skip the post and move on....stueps man weh allyuh does come from in true.

 

You're right !! Don't sit there like you've never been in a classroom.....

Stand up for your rights and prove that 15/20 is 75% dammit !!!!!!

Don't let anyone stand in your way of educating the forum on simple fractions for God Sake !!!.....

Feel better ??

[JERSEY TRINI]

you is ah ass or ah jackass? which one?

[kicker]

you is ah ass or ah jackass? which one?

is that a trick question ??

or is it as straightforward as "what is 25% of 20 ? " 

Iz jones I on......cool yuhself.

.......back to the topic

[Marcos]

men getting heated on this site.
i like that

ppl really feel man dunno maths and tryin to coast.

[dcs]

Hopefully Fifa take on the cost and doesn't pass it on to the FAs

Fifa can also do some other things to get back money from the clubs.
Perhaps mandate contracts provide a clause for players to have freedom to represent their Countries without hindrance(maybe that is what they arguing about now).
The FAs need to sign off permission for players to play with Clubs I believe.  The Clubs are still under the purvue of the FAs so they can tweak some rules or introduce higher Club fees to recover the costs if the clubs want to make noise.

Alot of these clubs benefit from National Youth programs and don't provide any money for it.  Which clubs helping Lincoln with his program?  They have their own youth programs too but they are still profiting from all the scouting across the world and pick off the players without paying anyone other than another club.

Should FAs now "own" players?
Fifa still have enough clout and leverage to deal with whatever the judgement is.  Things will likely change and hopefully the system they come up with is fair to all.  The Bosman ruling was a good thing in the end.

[Filho]

yeah...like I said it is 75%. Unfortunately my example was wrong. simple mistake....

[duscam]

so if he play 10 out of 20 is that not 50 %..just checking .. i post this afterwards...