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Offline NC

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"Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« on: October 06, 2005, 08:57:06 AM »
Tuesday, those of us who care, saw an "all-star" team of MLS players lose to Real Madrid in Spain, 5-0.

Jamie Trecker, the Windy City resident, writes about soccer in the USA every Wednesday.
 
It was an embarrassing loss, another missed opportunity for a still-young American league that maddeningly manages to blow chances with abandon.

If you're honest and if you know something about the sport you have to ask yourself how many more chances MLS is going to get?

MLS' history is littered with failure. Ignore the millions of dollars flushed away, the attempts to mine South Florida that ended in contraction, the "sales" of franchises that have never come to pass, and the abject failure to convince the country's media of the sport's legitimacy. Just look at the steady attendance declines, and the lack of meaningful coverage of the sport. Why sleepwalk through an event that could have brought some badly needed attention?

The shellacking at the Bernabeu will resonate for a while to come, at least among the soccer community and with the sport's bashers, who are always ready to pounce. Think about it: one of Europe's best sides, playing at half-speed, put on a display that went beyond schooling — there was a nasty edge that underlined the opportunistic play of the Spaniards.

Perhaps the Galaticos had read the papers and seen the quotes attributed to the some-time American captain Landon Donovan about how he much rather would have stayed in Los Angeles.

Perhaps Real Madrid's squad has kept up with the Financial Times and knows how much money MLS' backers have lost and yet how little of their fortunes they have actually spent to date.

It doesn't matter why, really. If you are a fan at all of American sport, it was painful to watch Ronaldo, Guti and Beckham celebrate their goals by mimicking the panicked MLS defenders. With the flips of the head and the laughter at a hopelessly adrift back-line, the Madrileños emphatically underscored the division between the Old World and the New.

So many things are so awry with MLS that many fans simply walk away from the nascent league. Every expansion team in the league loses at least 25% of their attendance from Year One to Year Two — here in Chicago I've seen the Fire go from a team that could on any night get up to 30,000 fans to a team that struggles to draw 12,000.

American fans are (somewhat patronizingly, I must say) often described as "increasingly knowledgeable" by marketers and flacks. That means they know that the world's best players aren't wearing MLS uniforms. According to my mailbox, they think MLS matches are scrappy and slow. They are frustrated by the mindless, uncritical assessments of the teams on TV and in the papers. They don't bother to tune into "sports talk" radio, because the sport is never mentioned. They spend their money at pubs and on satellite dishes, watching games from Germany, England, Italy and Spain.

Most of all, real soccer fans see right through the fabrications that surround MLS' players.

Let's take Donovan for a minute. Anywhere else in the world, he'd be known as a never-was who crashed out twice in the Bundesliga. Fans would be singing "German reject" if he played in England. Elsewhere, the sportswriters would ream him for his behavior — is he really such a spoiled, childish man? But in the USA he gets a free pass from a press that not only doesn't know any better, but doesn't care to know. He isn't alone.

Few — if any — of the soccer writers in the USA want to tell the truth about many of the so-called stars in MLS — that they are illusions, by and large manufactured by marketers who desperately need a personality to hook their product to — because they've spent ten years convincing their bosses to give the game some space.

Like Damocoles, they're always under the sword and it's bad business to point out the flaws in an Andy Williams, a Kevin Hartman, a Tab Ramos, a Mia Hamm.

To be perfectly fair I think the American game is improving, and I say that after having sat through a number of games involving the Tampa Bay Mutiny, the New England Revolution or (ugh) both at the same time (Note: I am still owed hazard pay). I honestly feel that today, when two good teams play each other — say D.C. against Chicago — you get a pretty good game for the buck.

I also think the folks that rank MLS below the second-tier European leagues are snobs who haven't seen a game in Scotland, Belgium or Poland lately.

But only a fool — or someone desperate to keep their job writing about the sport — would deny the huge disconnect between the packaging and the reality. Tuesday, we got to see the difference between $100 million and $1.7 million per team. We saw where MLS is without Carlos Valderrama, Peter Nowak and every other star the league has seen go without replacement. We saw the limitations of guys trained at American colleges and paid subsistence wages. Even if you knew nothing about the sport, the excellent telecast from Spain illustrated just how lousy some of SUM's deliberately cheap productions are.

The New England Revolution's Sunil Gulati once famously said that paying American players more doesn't make them better players. I felt then, and still do now, that that cynical attitude has sold the league's patrons on an entertainment that has chosen fixed, cheap costs at the expense of taking the risks that owning a pro sports franchise in the USA entails.

Gultati is also demonstrably wrong: paying more would certainly attract better athletes. If you don't believe me, go ask any 13-year old who can shoot hoops or bench 400lbs where the money in being an athlete is.

MLS has some choices to make. It can coast along and hope (as it has) that attention-deprived municipalities such as Bridgeview, IL and Salt Lake City will drink the Kool-Aid and fork out money to build an arena. For some investors, this would be perfect — it's damn near impossible not to make money under those strictures. Or, MLS can live up to its press kits and do what nearly every other sports team around the world does.

MLS needs to get rid of the single-entity system. It needs to hire people who actually know something about soccer on the field, instead of marginalizing them. MLS' owners need to spend money on some known names and quantities instead of throwing a Nate Jaqua out on the field and wondering why no one knows who the heck he is. Above all, it needs to be realistic.

If MLS really wants to be a world-class league, it had better get ready for an era of ballooning payrolls, prima donna stars and consistent discussion in the media.

It will have to accept cutting checks and getting dissected in print. It will have to acknowledge that people will criticize it on radio, on TV and in bars. It will have to stop pretending that international no-names like Donovan, Taylor Twellman, Tony Sanneh and Ante Razov (to name just a handful) are "stars".

In other words, MLS will have to grow up. Sadly, as the league remains infantile on virtually every level, I find it hard to envision such a change. Someday, we may be able to look back at August 23, 2005 and realize what a favor Real Madrid did the USA.

The Galacticos tartly demonstrated what real talent, real passion and, yes, real soccer looks like. I hope the guys in New York have paid attention.

And if they haven't, then consider this an open letter to Don Garber: You can't market your way out of this.

Jerry Trecker contributed to this report. Send plaudits, gripes, musings et al. to jamie.trecker@gmail.com
« Last Edit: October 06, 2005, 10:09:22 AM by Tallman »

Offline KND2

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2005, 09:31:43 AM »
I saw this game and it was not as bad as the score seemed.
The MLS hold there own and remember they did well on the home field versus the same Madrid Squad.

they did give up 2 or 3 goals in the last 10-15 mins so that made the score lop sided.

The difference in the game was Ronaldo, if ronaldo was on the MLS side he might as well have won the game for them.

Ronaldo was a beast in that game.

This writer is a fool because if he thinks MLS is on the same league as Galacticos is not very football Knowledgable..

The MLS is here to stay and it will only get better as they get out of the big empty stadiums and move into the soccer specific stadiums.

The market is more a family one than the holliganism in Europe but they will always get support.

All that is needed now is some more Tv revenue.
The fact that they starting to have more ethic teams like Chivas will bode well once Chivas actually wins some games.

And the whole entire point of MLS is not to be as big as NFL or NBA but rather to have 10 teams of american players playing in a professional environment to feed the national team.

And look at the National Team They are not an ellite team but they can surety be in the world cup in a concacaf group year after year.


Back in 1990 The US national team used to play in college stadiums and just the players parents used to come and watch them.

Now men playing for top clubs in the world and are solid players

Compare that to what TnT have done in a same time frame

Absolutely nothing,
Nothing has changed in terms of football in TnT since I was playing U14 back in the 80's to date.

People does talk about money , but it is not money

It is ideas

Jack warner had money and look at what happen to his club Joe Public, since the early 90's to now they are the same.

The MLS is a Brilliant Idea and everywhere that goes by proves that it is Brilliant execution.

No other team in the world has developed as much as the US has in the last 15 years.

Lets see if they top off or continue to grow over the next 15 years

Offline Trini

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2005, 09:39:46 AM »
Look at it this way....If USA was playing Spain the WC, I sure the US would give them a very very good run.
Heck they may even beat them.
That is due to MLS in a big way....

Offline grimm01

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2005, 09:47:31 AM »
boy talk about a scathing attack...

while the man have some valid points about the marketing of the MLS, they have come a long way since they started. while some of the games aren't exactly Champions League level, they can be entertaining stuff.

these big European Leagues around for decades in an footballing environment. the author needs to be realistic about how fast the MLS can grow especially in a country where the US WC qualification barely make it into the papers.

i doh know much about how the MLS run, but as KND say, marketing to the youths and family and bringing in teams like Chivas is a great way to grow the MLS brand. i referee on a weekend for a youth club, and the organisation and skills of some of these teams in impressive. football not in danger of dying out in the US anytime soon.

Offline Coop's

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2005, 09:55:40 AM »
I may sound negative here but i think the US sports media and fans don't like Soccer because it's affecting their other sports,they try to keep it down as much as possible so nothing they say surprises me,a lot of kids in the US play this game they love it,a lot don't because of parents who because they played other sports want their kids to do the same.In Northern Virginia there are 20 plus clubs and most have about 3,000 kids.    

Offline Touches

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2005, 10:00:13 AM »
The writer has produced an excellent piece and has just aired what plenty people were frightened to say publicly.

Good article and I agree with him.

Especially the part about Donovan! ;D


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Offline JDB

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2005, 10:12:35 AM »
Good article and I agree with him.

Especially the part about Donovan! ;D

I remember a while ago I made the point that Donovan was over-rated and a non-entity on the world stage and people were questioning whether the US media really hypes him.

Well the answer is yes they do, much more than he is worth. Beasley  has shown that he is more worthy of hype, why he is makiking it in a big league, same thing for O'Brien, Reyna, Bocanegra also. Yet Donovan is the poster child.
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Offline NC

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2005, 10:42:57 AM »
Look at it this way....If USA was playing Spain the WC, I sure the US would give them a very very good run.
Heck they may even beat them.
That is due to MLS in a big way....

boy talk about a scathing attack...

while the man have some valid points about the marketing of the MLS, they have come a long way since they started.

All they have done, is learn to apply the basics at a very high pace ... faster than most ... that is all we are talking about, which is not very much when compared to the rest of the football world.  Should they be given credit for that, yes they should.  But lets not blow it out of porportion and if they are another powerhouse as Brazil or Argentina.

Offline JDB

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2005, 10:58:03 AM »
To be fair the US system has worked for them.  The MLS has allowed them to keep a much larger pool of players involved in the game and they have a lot of depth from which they can select their national team.

They will not create truly outstanding players until the game genuinely becomes popular.

Young Brazilians, Argentines etc have football on their mind all the time, great players that they look up to and hope to emulate, games to watch and go to all the time. Football is a part of life.

In the US this is just not the case NFL, baseball and basketball are. Those are the sports that kids live for daily. The huge numbers of kids playing organized "soccer" is merely a reflection of population and opportunity.
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Offline KND2

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2005, 11:29:51 AM »
Donanvan is the poster child because in Truth and in Fact he leads the way on the pitch for america.

He scores and assist on nearly every goal they score and deserves to be the leader.

The whole issue about not making it in germany is a personal between him and the german team

Donanvan will socre 20 goals and 10 assist in england, Spain France etc.

He is a real attacking midfielder who can score goals.

He is not as good as Hernry or Rooney and them but he better than men like Nakata, Baptista, Park, Fletcher, Hleb etc.

The man have good speed
Good Touch
Good Tactical Awarness
Good Endurance and plays defense as well

added to that a crazy white boy attitude of the typical american and you have a very complete player.

If 3-4 years he will be on a good european team and making waves.

Donavan good

Offline NC

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2005, 11:35:34 AM »
Donanvan is the poster child because in Truth and in Fact he leads the way on the pitch for america.

He scores and assist on nearly every goal they score and deserves to be the leader.

The whole issue about not making it in germany is a personal between him and the german team

Donanvan will socre 20 goals and 10 assist in england, Spain France etc.

He is a real attacking midfielder who can score goals.

He is not as good as Hernry or Rooney and them but he better than men like Nakata, Baptista, Park, Fletcher, Hleb etc.

The man have good speed
Good Touch
Good Tactical Awarness
Good Endurance and plays defense as well

added to that a crazy white boy attitude of the typical american and you have a very complete player.

If 3-4 years he will be on a good european team and making waves.

Donavan good

Do you think it is esay to score twenty goals in the EPL?  If it is why isn't every accomplished player doing it?

Offline Coop's

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2005, 12:56:19 PM »
Donanvan is the poster child because in Truth and in Fact he leads the way on the pitch for america.

He scores and assist on nearly every goal they score and deserves to be the leader.

The whole issue about not making it in germany is a personal between him and the german team

Donanvan will socre 20 goals and 10 assist in england, Spain France etc.

He is a real attacking midfielder who can score goals.

He is not as good as Hernry or Rooney and them but he better than men like Nakata, Baptista, Park, Fletcher, Hleb etc.

The man have good speed
Good Touch
Good Tactical Awarness
Good Endurance and plays defense as well

added to that a crazy white boy attitude of the typical american and you have a very complete player.

If 3-4 years he will be on a good european team and making waves.

Donavan good

Do you think it is esay to score twenty goals in the EPL?  If it is why isn't every accomplished player doing it?
That guy is good,he has proven himself even at WC level,if i'm getting a good deal at home i'll stay home,he is about the highest paid player in the US,he must be their poster boy he is home based and the fans get to see him every day,it's all about business.One example, is Beckham the best Footballer in the world but he makes the most money endorsements etc he is marketable,every body wants piece of him on their product.   

Offline JERSEY TRINI

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2005, 01:38:41 PM »
Donovan is a shit snake and a straight up p^ssy.  Any footballer in the world would love the chance to play in Europe and show teams like Man U and Arssnal, Barca etc what he could do and he didn't even try too.  Even if yuh stay in Germany didn't work out that well, how come he didn't try to get a trial with another team in Europe or something before he run back to the MLS.  I say he is all hype and nothing else, is true he is quick but in a few years that quickness go start to disappear and then what?  He will have nothing and that's when you will see the real shit snake that he is.

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Offline Trini

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2005, 01:40:59 PM »
Donovan is a shit snake and a straight up p^ssy.  Any footballer in the world would love the chance to play in Europe and show teams like Man U and Arssnal, Barca etc what he could do and he didn't even try too.  Even if yuh stay in Germany didn't work out that well, how come he didn't try to get a trial with another team in Europe or something before he run back to the MLS.  I say he is all hype and nothing else, is true he is quick but in a few years that quickness go start to disappear and then what?  He will have nothing and that's when you will see the real shit snake that he is.

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You obviously dont know a baller when you see him.
If Donovan is a shitsnake, what does that make the TT midfielders?

Offline JERSEY TRINI

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2005, 01:46:31 PM »
The only thing that he has over Carlos is probably his quickness and that's it other than that he is just like them....shit he's probably not even that good.

Offline JDB

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2005, 01:56:17 PM »
The only thing that he has over Carlos is probably his quickness and that's it other than that he is just like them....shit he's probably not even that good.

Oh gosh Jersey, yuh taking the thing too far man.

I believe Donovan is overated but I wouldn't say he is not good. i prefer Beasley but I could acknowledge Donavan's talents. The one thing that he has over all of our midfielders, barring Latas is that he is a genral. He is confident, knows what he can do and does it.

Although he does have the advantage of playing in a working system. Playing with Mastroeni, O'Brien, Reyna and Beasley behind hard running strikers is very different to playing as part of a team that is always trying to find its feet and doesn't have a pass and run foundation. It would be interesting to see what Whitley or Edwards would look like playing in the place of Donovan though.
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Offline JERSEY TRINI

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2005, 02:08:43 PM »
I don't know man I've watched the La Galaxy twice last week and the man just does not impress me dred, but that's just my opinion.  He might have the fundamentals down ok I will give him that, but I really really don't think that he has what it takes to be that guy and I'm not talking about playing in no damn MLS, he have to prove that in Europe.  Last world Cup yeah the man open some people eyes but that was then, I sure he not going and look so good this time around though.

Offline Preacher

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2005, 02:36:38 PM »
The problem I have with US soccer is that the love they self more than they love the game...So when them score is not about the goal is about world dominance.  Even the greatest team in the world play the sport out of pride ..yes but that is second to the love of the game.  USA have not honored football so they will recieve no honor from football.....

But ofcourse one day they'll play Real Madrid and get a fluk win....and make ah movie  :'(
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Offline Coop's

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2005, 08:21:39 AM »
The only thing that he has over Carlos is probably his quickness and that's it other than that he is just like them....shit he's probably not even that good.
When was the last time Carlos scored a goal?how many international goals does Carlos have?

Offline jr sams

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2005, 08:39:38 AM »
The problem I have with US soccer is that the love they self more than they love the game...So when them score is not about the goal is about world dominance.  Even the greatest team in the world play the sport out of pride ..yes but that is second to the love of the game.  USA have not honored football so they will recieve no honor from football.....

But ofcourse one day they'll play Real Madrid and get a fluk win....and make ah movie  :'(

That is a very interesting way of looking at it. I never really thought of that before but its so true. Its like everything that the US does has to be on a global perspective. The NBA finals, they call the winner "World champions", baseball is the "World Series"...it would appear that there whole philosophy is global domination.
Imagine would would happen should they ever win the World Cup
well yes

Offline Coop's

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2005, 10:03:30 AM »
The problem I have with US soccer is that the love they self more than they love the game...So when them score is not about the goal is about world dominance.  Even the greatest team in the world play the sport out of pride ..yes but that is second to the love of the game.  USA have not honored football so they will recieve no honor from football.....

But ofcourse one day they'll play Real Madrid and get a fluk win....and make ah movie  :'(

That is a very interesting way of looking at it. I never really thought of that before but its so true. Its like everything that the US does has to be on a global perspective. The NBA finals, they call the winner "World champions", baseball is the "World Series"...it would appear that there whole philosophy is global domination.
Imagine would would happen should they ever win the World Cup
You said it right that's the US philosophy in everything they do and they will do what ever it takes that's why they spend so much money(money talks).
   You will not believe these ppl have a ten year plan and in it is to win the WC in 2010,they not joking,i'm not sure they can but they trying. 

Offline Tenorsaw

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2005, 02:24:52 PM »
Very frank article.  In reality, Donovan is an embarassment to other aspiring players.  To say that he doesn't care to play on the big stage in Europeis akin to being complacent at being labelled second best.    It's a case of the fox and the sour grapes; he couldn't handle not being the centre of attention or an automatic starter.  So, he's contented of being in a league playing against developing players, some of whom don't have the fabric to make it to the next level.  I've got to say the the MLS has served it's purpose of developing players that can represent their country and even go abroad and play for big clubs.  The marketing of the league leaves a lot to be desired.  How the hell can they pay someone $11,000 annually.  I know there is a love for the game, but come on now.  Also, the die hard soccer fans want better commentary during matches, not these tecnhically-lacking play narraters.  These fellas annoy me with their jargon.  They sound as though they don't know the game, and it annoys me.  I have to question the tactics of some of the teams also.  PLayers lack composure and seem afraid to put the ball on the floor and possess it.  That is an extension of the college mentality.  Until the MLS clubs begin to put a yuth structure in place that mimics what the European teams do, they will not really see an improvement of the talent level that comes through the league.  That is because there is still too much of a reliance on recruiting from the collegiate level.  Whoever hear about a draft in European football.  Know what I mean?  European teams grow players and make deals, but they don't draft players.  That alone shows the lack of development that the league needs to address.  Drafting big men that set in their bad habits will do nothing to elevate the standard of play of the MLS; there needs to be an implementation of academies at the club level.

Offline pass(10trini)

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Re: "Debacle highlights MLS' need to grow up" - True or False
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2005, 03:24:27 PM »
The problem I have with US soccer is that the love they self more than they love the game...So when them score is not about the goal is about world dominance.  Even the greatest team in the world play the sport out of pride ..yes but that is second to the love of the game.  USA have not honored football so they will recieve no honor from football.....

But ofcourse one day they'll play Real Madrid and get a fluk win....and make ah movie  :'(

That is a very interesting way of looking at it. I never really thought of that before but its so true. Its like everything that the US does has to be on a global perspective. The NBA finals, they call the winner "World champions", baseball is the "World Series"...it would appear that there whole philosophy is global domination.
Imagine would would happen should they ever win the World Cup

Ah never did know this. If this is truewell dey only spreading propagander, cause it have many a nation that playing professional basketball all over Europe.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2005, 04:32:20 PM by Tallman »
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