Spanish Football

[Observer]

Spanish football really making people sit up and take notice. They have been dominating the International scene in recent times at Senior and Youth.

At a club level:
Real and Barca in the CL Semi finals.
At Bilbao, At Madrid and Valencia all Advance in the Europa Cup

For me its the quality of attractive football that have me captivated

[palos]

Some people on this site mout go be long like clarinet when dey read your post....but you spot on.

No better league.....from top to bottom.

[kicker]

Careful - EPL men will tell yuh that Valencia would be in a relegation dog fight if they played in England. 

I think the gap between the top two and the rest getting too big though...league has become a two horse race by December - not good for the league I think. 

[Toppa]

Careful - EPL men will tell yuh that Valencia would be in a relegation dog fight if they played in England.   

hahaha

[Jumbie]

After watching the scores today ah was about to come post something similar. I recall the resident 'cuss bud" going orn bout how the EPL is the only competitive league and other with they blah blah blah about epl. Spanish football just running things.

clarinet     

[Observer]

Palos they could bump dey gum however they wish. The reality is the two top teams in the EPL got knocked
out by an 11th place team in the Spanish League & a 5th place team in the Portugese League. How many times have we
heard English commentators when English teams are winning, state about the opposition, that their respective league
is simply not of the standard as the Premier.

[Dynamite Warrior]

I was sold as soon as i saw Valencia win "on a cold wednesday in stoke". LOL 

[D.H.W]

Yeh Spanish football nice to look at , i cannot lie. But the marketing of the league is poor compared to EPL.

[Tenorsaw]

It's all cyclical. Not too long ago, you had three British clubs in the semifinals of the Champions' League and four in the quarters that year, I believe).  Now that the money is being spread around Europe a bit more, in terms of foreign ownership (PSG, Getafe, Malaga, Roma, etc.), the top players are no longer flocking to a single league - the EPL.  Besides this, Spanish football, on a whole, is enjoying a golden era, and the competition is very stiff to be called up for Spain.

[kicker]

It's all cyclical.

Agreed!! - except the EPL zombies believe they are the best even when they're in a down cycle. 

[asylumseeker]

What was it ... about ~15 years ago that the Spanish league was widely ... almost universally regarded as "king"? In that era you certainly couldn't find much dissent to challenge that status.

[Tenorsaw]

Careful - EPL men will tell yuh that Valencia would be in a relegation dog fight if they played in England. 

I think the gap between the top two and the rest getting too big though...league has become a two horse race by December - not good for the league I think. 

Was thinking the same thing the other day.  Unless the Arab owners of Getafe and Malaga pump money into their teams, and if only Valencia could stop from its financial hemmoraging and retain it's best talent, that is how it will be.  The downfall with the Primera Liga is that the clubs don't share a collective media deal, like the EPL, that guarantees clubs a minimum level of revenue from TV deals, etc.  The Big Two are able to negotiate huge global TV packages individually, leaving the other clubs to fight for the scraps.  Makes the two Primera Liga titles won by Rafa Benitez on a shoe-string budget look all the more amazing, considering how the odds are stacked against the other Spanish clubs from the get go.

[Andre]

with unemployment at 25% in spain and nearly 50% for 24 and under, they have plenty time to practice.

[kicker]

Careful - EPL men will tell yuh that Valencia would be in a relegation dog fight if they played in England. 

I think the gap between the top two and the rest getting too big though...league has become a two horse race by December - not good for the league I think. 

Was thinking the same thing the other day.  Unless the Arab owners of Getafe and Malaga pump money into their teams, and if only Valencia could stop from its financial hemmoraging and retain it's best talent, that is how it will be.  The downfall with the Primera Liga is that the clubs don't share a collective media deal, like the EPL, that guarantees clubs a minimum level of revenue from TV deals, etc.  The Big Two are able to negotiate huge global TV packages individually, leaving the other clubs to fight for the scraps.  Makes the two Primera Liga titles won by Rafa Benitez on a shoe-string budget look all the more amazing, considering how the odds are stacked against the other Spanish clubs from the get go.

You hit the nail on the head - and there have been movements to cure this...good post. 

[Toppa]

with unemployment at 25% in spain and nearly 50% for 24 and under, they have plenty time to practice.

Very true! Haha

[Observer]

Putting everything aside (marketing, cyclical nature of the game, financing etc). The Spanish league from top to bottom play beautiful football. Some may say this is their down fall, because a team that can no way beat Real, should play direct, jam man and be efficient on set plays.

i cannot help but think if I was a youth growing up in Stoke and watching Stoke every Saturday, what kind of player I would become; versus a youth growing up watching Rayo Vallecano 

On the note that it is a two horse race, is it really any different than anywhere else? Football dominance is by and largre directly related to money, EPL is ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea (injection of cash), now Man City. Germany may be the only exception where the playing field is a bit more balanced, yet is still only 4 clubs we talking about.

[FF]

Some people on this site mout go be long like clarinet when dey read your post....but you spot on.

No better league.....from top to bottom.

 

[Bakes]

It's all cyclical. Not too long ago, you had three British clubs in the semifinals of the Champions' League and four in the quarters that year, I believe).  Now that the money is being spread around Europe a bit more, in terms of foreign ownership (PSG, Getafe, Malaga, Roma, etc.), the top players are no longer flocking to a single league - the EPL.  Besides this, Spanish football, on a whole, is enjoying a golden era, and the competition is very stiff to be called up for Spain.

Was now coming to say this... tide may have turned with Euro 2008 culminating in the WC.  Spain's stars were largely domestic, and largely Barca players at that.  That quality and investment in development has filtered down to the other teams.  I don't watch enough Spanish football to comment on the quality top to bottom, but there certainly is no denying the quality at the top.

[Deeks]

Despite all the hoopla about the EPL and the Liverpool golden era in the 70s, Bayern era, AC Milan era, Spanish ball has always been in the top or top 3 since the inception of the European cup in the 50s. All because of Madrid with their all star teams. They have use the immigrants from South America to sustain that consistency. DiStefano and many others. But the club success never filtered up to the national team until recently. Spain national team was considered one of the biggest underarchievers in national team football despite the success of Madrid, Barca and a couple of lesser clubs. No doubt about it, the Spanish league and national team are having a golden era at this time(thanks to the Catalans). If they can go to Brazil and win the WC, that will be great for them. Remember No Euro team has won the WC when ever it has been played in South or North America. Spain broke the trend by winning on non-Euro soil in South Africa.

[kaliman2006]

Careful - EPL men will tell yuh that Valencia would be in a relegation dog fight if they played in England. 

I think the gap between the top two and the rest getting too big though...league has become a two horse race by December - not good for the league I think. 

That's the only problem I have with Spanish football. Every year, it is a two-horse race between Real and Barcelona. If the league was more competitive, then La Liga's reputation in Europe would go up even further.

Perhaps some billionaire owners can pump some cash into the Atlético Madrid, Valencia, Málaga et. al and that should help make the league more competitive. Who knows?

[Raul]

Spain's stars were largely domestic, and largely Barca players at that.

Hmmm if my feeble memory serves me right, at Euro 2008 both Liverpool and Valencia boasted 4 players each - El niño, Alonso, Reina and Arbeloa in Liverpool and Albiol, Marchena, El Guaje and Silva at Valencia. Barca had only 3 - Puyol, Iniesta and Xavi while Madrid had only Casillas and Ramos.

2010 squad was 6 Barca followed by 5 Madrid... Cesc and El Guaje had never worn a senior Barca shirt at the time of the World Cup...

[Observer]

Careful - EPL men will tell yuh that Valencia would be in a relegation dog fight if they played in England. 

I think the gap between the top two and the rest getting too big though...league has become a two horse race by December - not good for the league I think. 

That's the only problem I have with Spanish football. Every year, it is a two-horse race between Real and Barcelona. If the league was more competitive, then La Liga's reputation in Europe would go up even further.

Perhaps some billionaire owners can pump some cash into the Atlético Madrid, Valencia, Málaga et. al and that should help make the league more competitive. Who knows?

As I said, the reality is different from the perception of  the EPL. Since the EPL began in 1992 it has only 4 winners ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea and Blackburn.

In the same time period in La Liga, Barca, Real, At Madrid, Deportivo La Coruna and Valencia have all won the title.

Germany however in the same time period has had Bayern, Dortmund, Kaiserslauten, Werder Bremen, Stutgart, Wolfsberg all win Bundesliga titles

Italy has had in the same time period Milan, Juventus, Lazio, Roma, Inter all winning the Scudetto

[Bakes]

Hmmm if my feeble memory serves me right, at Euro 2008 both Liverpool and Valencia boasted 4 players each - El niño, Alonso, Reina and Arbeloa in Liverpool and Albiol, Marchena, El Guaje and Silva at Valencia. Barca had only 3 - Puyol, Iniesta and Xavi while Madrid had only Casillas and Ramos.

2010 squad was 6 Barca followed by 5 Madrid... Cesc and El Guaje had never worn a senior Barca shirt at the time of the World Cup...

I don't think it's your memory that's feeble...

... tide may have turned with Euro 2008 culminating in the WC.

If you want to dispute that Spain's WC stars were largely from Barcelona's squad then such is your right.  History might argue otherwise though.

[Jah Gol]

If we had 20 men good enough to play regularly in la liga we would qualify for every world cup. Every player in The Spanish top flight can pass and control the football. All the teams try to play football if even sometimes a more physical version of tiki taka. Spaniards value technical ability over physical gifts and it shows. The cycle thing is probably true but the Spanish patient approach to player development keeps them at good level consistently.

The most remarkable club is Athletic Bilbao as they have adopted a basque only policy. The fact that they are able to compete at that level is testament to the quality of development and the ability to retain players. Llorente for instance is good enough to play for any club in Europe. Munian is one of the best young players in Europe as well. There is a gap in Spain yeah but put real and barca in any league in the world and there'd be a gap too.

The EPL has a great top 4-5 that I actually find entertaining. The problem with England is the English mentality. Everything must be fast and hard. The man who can win headers , run and tackle hard is considered a great guy in England. Julio Baptista said that fans applaud winning a header or a corner more than a piece of skill in the midfield , granted he was probably a lil bitter.

Swansea is a nice exception to the tactical drones that proliferate at the bottom at the league in England. English football will do better to produce more Nathan Dyers and fewer Michael Carricks.

[dinho]

Nice thread.

[Mango Chow!]

Despite all the hoopla about the EPL and the Liverpool golden era in the 70s, Bayern era, AC Milan era, Spanish ball has always been in the top or top 3 since the inception of the European cup in the 50s. All because of Madrid with their all star teams. They have use the immigrants from South America to sustain that consistency. DiStefano and many others. But the club success never filtered up to the national team until recently. Spain national team was considered one of the biggest underarchievers in national team football despite the success of Madrid, Barca and a couple of lesser clubs. No doubt about it, the Spanish league and national team are having a golden era at this time(thanks to the Catalans). If they can go to Brazil and win the WC, that will be great for them. Remember No Euro team has won the WC when ever it has been played in South or North America. Spain broke the trend by winning on non-Euro soil in South Africa.

Nice post, probably the best one so far.
If anybody only now sittin' up and noticing Spanish football for its quality, flair, attractiveness and the players' technical ability (spanish and outsiders) it's because they really weren't paying attention and I mean that with all due respect.  Beautiful football being played all around Europe and outside of England now long time, but as others have mentioned above, yuh cyah say dat too loud to the men who heavily favour the EPL. Some time ago, there was a somewhat related discussion.  Cyah remember the exact heading and/or tone of the subject/heading but ah vaguely remember talk about the French (and maybe other) League(s) and how they are inferior to the EPL. The main (and probably only) thing the English league have over most other leagues in Europe is marketing ang the loads of cash that goes with it.  But we live in a results-oriented world now and for that, England has had their fair share.  Spain just happens to have had the lion's share having won a total of 13 European Cup/Champions' League trophies.  Is not now dey playin' a nice brand nuh.

[Deeks]

The visual effects of watching  English football on tv is what I think has captured the imaginations. Their cameras always seem to be close up on the play.  In Italy and some Euro and in some South American games the play and players seem so far away. The close compact stadiums in Eng. almost always fill with die-hard fans and the do or die mentally is something that appeals to quite a lot of people. But it is good to have contrast, because football would be boring if everybody play the same way.

[ragga]

What we see of Spain today did not happen overnight.

A lot of the present day Spanish look can be attributed to a gentleman by the name of Horst Wein. He is renowned worlwide as the coach of coaches. He revolutionised the way to coach football in what he calls his Football Development Model. In a nutshell, it is designed to teach youth players to think for themselves i.e. game intelligence.

He is German but has been working out of Spain since the early 1980's. He worked cooperatively with the CEDIF (Center for Research and Studies) of the Royal Spanish Football Federation.

He introduced his methodology to the youth coaches of Barcelona back in the 80's and it is on this their foundation was built.

He developed his methodology for field hockey (coached team to olympic silver medal) and adopted it to football.

He spent a lot of time in T&T back in the 70's working with our national hockey progran.

[ANC2]

What we see of Spain today did not happen overnight.

A lot of the present day Spanish look can be attributed to a gentleman by the name of Horst Wein. He is renowned worlwide as the coach of coaches. He revolutionised the way to coach football in what he calls his Football Development Model. In a nutshell, it is designed to teach youth players to think for themselves i.e. game intelligence.

He is German but has been working out of Spain since the early 1980's. He worked cooperatively with the CEDIF (Center for Research and Studies) of the Royal Spanish Football Federation.

He introduced his methodology to the youth coaches of Barcelona back in the 80's and it is on this their foundation was built.

He developed his methodology for field hockey (coached team to olympic silver medal) and adopted it to football.

He spent a lot of time in T&T back in the 70's working with our national hockey progran.

Ragga I was in Spain two years ago and spoke with several youth coahes. Wein was part of their field hockey development in the region. He did adapt his model to football and present to the Royal Federation. He also spent a few weeks at Barca, but was removed once Cruyff took the job (he did not last long). Wein claims are well known (in his books anyway), but in Spanish football circles, don't tell them Wein was responsible for the present state of their football development.

PS: Don't shoot the messenger

[ragga]

What we see of Spain today did not happen overnight.

A lot of the present day Spanish look can be attributed to a gentleman by the name of Horst Wein. He is renowned worlwide as the coach of coaches. He revolutionised the way to coach football in what he calls his Football Development Model. In a nutshell, it is designed to teach youth players to think for themselves i.e. game intelligence.

He is German but has been working out of Spain since the early 1980's. He worked cooperatively with the CEDIF (Center for Research and Studies) of the Royal Spanish Football Federation.

He introduced his methodology to the youth coaches of Barcelona back in the 80's and it is on this their foundation was built.

He developed his methodology for field hockey (coached team to olympic silver medal) and adopted it to football.

He spent a lot of time in T&T back in the 70's working with our national hockey progran.

Ragga I was in Spain two years ago and spoke with several youth coahes. Wein was part of their field hockey development in the region. He did adapt his model to football and present to the Royal Federation. He also spent a few weeks at Barca, but was removed once Cruyff took the job (he did not last long). Wein claims are well known (in his books anyway), but in Spanish football circles, don't tell them Wein was responsible for the present state of their football development.

PS: Don't shoot the messenger

Cruyff was their before, during and after Wein.
Cryuff set-up Barca academy based on Ajax Academy model.
Cryuff brought in Wein as a consultant to lecture and present to the youth coaches.
Yes, his tenure their was short-term, but was by design.  He was/is an academic without any playing experience working behind the scenes.
I saw him presenting at the soccerdome in NJ just a few weeks ago.