Afghan Taliban publicly execute woman accused of adultery; men cheer

[truetrini]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48105731/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/#.T_j9IfXhfOM

Allah U Akbar...yeah God is great indeed.

By Hamid Shalizi and Amie Ferris-Rotman
updated 7/7/2012 1:55:12 PM ET

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KABUL — A man Afghan officials say is a member of the Taliban shot dead a woman accused of adultery in front of a crowd near Kabul, a video obtained by Reuters showed, a sign that the austere Islamist group dictates law even near the Afghan capital.

In the three-minute video, a turban-clad man approaches a woman kneeling in the dirt and shoots her five times at close range with an automatic rifle, to cheers of jubilation from the 150 or so men watching in a village in Parwan province.

"Allah warns us not to get close to adultery because it's the wrong way," another man says as the shooter gets closer to the woman. "It is the order of Allah that she be executed".

Provincial Governor Basir Salangi said the video, obtained on Saturday, was shot a week ago in the village of Qimchok in Shinwari district, about an hour's drive from Kabul.

Such rare public punishment was a painful reminder to Afghan authorities of the Taliban's 1996-2001 period in power, and it raised concern about the treatment of Afghan women 11 years into the NATO-led war against Taliban insurgents.

The video was revealed the same day Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton was in Kabul to discuss the designation of Afghanistan as the newest U.S. "major non-NATO ally," a political statement of support for the country's long-term stability and a solidifying of close defense cooperation after American combat troops withdraw in 2014.
Story: US delivers 'powerful commitment' to Afghanistan

"When I saw this video, I closed my eyes ... The woman was not guilty; the Taliban are guilty," Salangi told Reuters.
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When the unnamed woman, most of her body tightly wrapped in a shawl, fell sideways after being shot several times in the head, the spectators chanted: "Long live the Afghan mujahideen! (Islamist fighters)", a name the Taliban use for themselves.

The Taliban could not be reached for comment.

Despite the presence of over 130,000 foreign troops and 300,000 Afghan soldiers and police, the Taliban have managed to resurge beyond their traditional bastions of the south and east, extending their reach into once more peaceful areas like Parwan.

Afghan women have won back basic rights in education, voting and work since the Taliban, who deemed them un-Islamic for women, were toppled by U.S.-backed Afghan forces in late 2001.

But fears are rising among Afghan women, some lawmakers and rights activists that such freedoms could be traded away as the Afghan government and the United States pursue talks with the Taliban to secure a peaceful end to the war.

Violence against women has increased sharply in the past year, according to Afghanistan's independent human rights commission. Activists say there is waning interest in women's rights on the part of President Hamid Karzai's government.

"After 10 years (of foreign intervention), and only a few kilometers from Kabul... how could this happen in front of all these people?" female lawmaker Fawzia Koofi said of the public execution in Parwan.
Afghanistan schoolgirls: poisoned or mass hysteria?

"This is happening under a government that claims to have made so much progress in women's rights, claims to have changed women's lives, and this is unacceptable. It is a huge step backwards," said Koofi, a campaigner for girls' education who wants to run in the 2014 presidential election.

Salangi said two Taliban commanders were sexually involved with the woman in Parwan, either through rape or romantically, and decided to torture her and then kill her to settle a dispute between the two of them.


"They are outlaws, murderers, and like savages they killed the woman," he said, adding that the Taliban exerted considerable sway in his province.

Earlier this week a 30-year-old woman and two of her children were beheaded in eastern Afghanistan by a man police said was her divorced husband, the latest of a string of so-called "honor killings".

Some Afghans still refer to Taliban courts for settling disputes, viewing government bodies as corrupt or unreliable. The courts use sharia (Islamic law), which prescribes punishments such as stonings and executions.

[just cool]

Not this sh!t again! do you ever get tired??

we get it, yuh hate religion, especially dem backward desert ppl with the turbans. now please bring something new to the table. 

[truetrini]

I guess it is only highly.intelligent, widely read and traveled persons like.you who find them progressive, just and humane.  people with smarts like.you who embrace them and find them modern people who.contribute much to society today.

and why de f**k you eh write BBC and ask dem to being something new to the table?

who hates more than religious peoples?

[pecan]

TT might have a point but one might argue that he is confusing Religion and Faith and furthermore, falls into the 'stereotyping' trap with his prejudices.  i.e. he paints all religions with the same brush. Is the religion that those Taliban practice the same as other religions? In my religion I can assure you that we certainly don't run around executing adulterers (although we do have our faults, not unlike other theists or atheists for that matter). And btw, is not God doing the execution, it is a bunch of misogynistic men who misinterpret  (or choose to) the scriptures.

Makes you wonder why he hates religion so much.    Certainly, much evil has been done in the name of religion. But likewise, much evil have been done in the name of non-religious social constructs. If you look closely, the common variable is mankind's inherent short comings.

TT confusing cause and effect with correlation.

[truetrini]

you feel you can speak for what I believe our understand?

steups.

religion..all religion is shit.

that is an universal truth

[pecan]

you feel you can speak for what I believe our understand?

steups.

religion..all religion is shit.

that is an universal truth

and that statement is unadulterated nonsense.

and no, I cant speak for what you believe and understand and furthermore,  and I not even trying to do that. Your hatred is so strong you can't see the forest from the trees but I can observe and draw my own conclusions.

you have major issues with religion, and that is a universal truth.

[pecan]

Blame this on religion too ...

Afghan schoolgirls mystery sickness: Poison or mass hysteria?
Published on Friday July 06, 2012


SHAH MARAI/AFP/GETTY IMAGES An Afghan schoolgirl receives treatment at a hospital in Kabul in August 2010. Cases of alleged poisoning of Afghan schoolgirls by Taliban insurgents regularly make headlines, but there are signs that a phenomenon known as "mass hysteria" could be responsible.
Liam Casey
Staff Reporter
5 Comments

Hundreds of schoolgirls have been wailing, vomiting and fainting in northern Afghanistan over the past few months.

No one has died from the mysterious illness and most recover within a day or two. This is the fourth straight year the illness has afflicted Afghan girls in the northern provinces although there has been a dramatic spike in 2012 — 858 cases reported in the first five months alone compared to 119 last year.

The provincial governments and Kabul say the girls are being poisoned by the Taliban, or Pakistani spies, because they are attending school — something that was forbidden during the Taliban rule in the 1990s. The radical group has denied any involvement.

But the World Health Organization believes it has found the cause: mass hysteria, or, in medical parlance, mass psychogenic illness (MPI).

“In the last four years over 1,634 cases from 22 schools have been treated for mass psychogenic illness in Afghanistan,” says a report from the WHO in late May.

Locals and the government vehemently disagree.

“Girls are being poisoned,” said Nargis Nehan, with Equality for Peace and Democracy, from Kabul. “It’s that simple. There must be something in the water or air that is making these girls sick.”

Neither the World Health Organization nor local officials have found evidence of poison. Tests on the girls have come back negative in all 1,634 cases, according to the WHO report. And no teachers or boys have become sick.

“Hundreds of girls are getting sick, physically sick and have to be taken to the hospital,” said Manizha Naderi, executive director with New York-based Women for Afghan Women. “How can that be mass hysteria?”

Mass hysteria manifests itself in physical symptoms and is a legitimate illness, according to Julio Arboleda-Florez, a psychiatry and epidemiology professor at Queen’s University. But it’s hard to get that message across.

“People have trouble accepting this diagnosis because people aren’t very psychologically sophisticated,” Arboleda-Florez said.

Mass hysteria is a well-documented phenomenon. The professor studied an episode in the West Bank in which nearly 1,000 school girls felt nauseous and fainted. It came during the threat of chemical warfare from Israel.

“There is usually a tremendous amount of anxiety that leads to mass hysteria,” Arboleda-Florez said. “It’s a social behaviour that is often correlated with war and mass hysteria that happens when someone is completely overcome and cannot control their environment.”

. It often happens in war-torn countries where there are legitimate fears — such as the threat of poisoning in Kosovo in 1990, when thousands of girls suffered from burning red eyes and chest pain. It affected almost exclusively ethnic Albanians during the deadly civil war. But no traces of poison were ever found in the patients.

“This is all based on anxiety, and I mean extreme anxiety, where there are real, plausible threats,” said Robert Bartholomew, a sociology professor from Botany College in Auckland, who has studied the phenomenon. “The fact that schoolgirls have been targeted in the past by the Taliban only serves to give credence to the rumours of a potential poison attack.”

Strangely, the Afghan government arrested 15 people in May, said to be responsible for the poisonings. Seven more were arrested for a different episode on Tuesday. Two of those suspects were trotted out to speak to the BBC, admitting they poisoned girls. An intelligence officer directed every response by the accused.

The illnesses occur in clusters. More than 100 girls from Bibi Hajerah High School in the northern Takhar province went to the hospital after becoming weak, nauseous and dizzy in May. There have been similar-sized outbreaks at other schools in the north this year. Many girls said they smelled an awful stench immediately before falling ill.

“Generally, one person gets sick and then it’s like dominoes,” Bartholomew said. “And what’s interesting is that everyone’s symptoms are similar.”

Mass hysteria overtook Le Roy, N.Y. in January when 18 teenage girls, one boy and a 36-year-old woman came down with tics, spasms and fainting spells, although experts agree it’s a little more complicated because there’s no war in Le Roy.

Related:Erin Brockovich probes high school girls’ mystery illness

But in Afghanistan, many of the girls who have recovered haven’t returned to school. The fear is real, Rumours that girls who’ve gotten ill can’t have children aren’t helping matters.

“Now people think that their girls who have gotten sick can’t have children and their lives are ruined, so parents are keeping their girls home,” Naderi said.

Psychotherapy won’t work, but the solution is simple.

“It’s a social ailment,” Arboleda-Florez said. “They just need to get away from their environment and the stress. And a hospital is a good place to do that.”

[truetrini]

while atrocities are committed by atheists and other non religious peoples,the real question is why are similar atrocities committed in the name of religion?

Science has done more for humanity than religion!

Universal Declaration of Human rights by UN as Article-19 says, "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion & expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference & to seek, receive & impart information & ideas through any media & regardless of frontiers"

Religion doh foster that Universal Declaration.


I have absolutely no problem with any man deciding that he wants to follow some mythology and live his life under religious dictates.

I have faith in Gravity.

ALL RELIGION is mass hysteria.

[truetrini]

Morocco sex debate rages after imam's death call
AFPBy Omar Brouksy | AFP – 5 hrs ago

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    Faithfuls listen to Imam Omar Kzabri on the esplanade of the Hassan II mosque during the Tarawih prayers as part of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan in Casablanca on August 29, 2009. (AFP Photo/Abdelhak Senna)

    Faithfuls listen to Imam Omar Kzabri …
    An actress performs a scene from the play "Vagina Monologues" written by Eve Ensler and directed by Naďma Zitane, in Rabat on June 16. Morocco's debate on sexual freedom was rekindled with the opening last month of the play in Rabat. (AFP Photo/Alice Dufour-Ferance)

    An actress performs a scene from …

The call by a radical Moroccan imam for the death of a journalist who spoke out in defence of sexual freedom has ignited a fierce debate between Islamists and secularists in a country torn between modernity and religious tradition.

Abdellah Nhari, an imam in the northeastern Oujda region, who is well known for his controversial pronouncements, declared in a recent sermon that Elmokhtar Laghzioui was a "dayoute," or cuckold in colloquial Arabic, and that in Islam "the 'dayoute' should be killed."

Nhari was reacting to Laghzioui's remarks, on a satellite television channel, indicating that he supported personal, and in particular sexual freedom, even in the case of one's "mother or sister."

Around 100 journalists held a sit-in on Thursday outside the headquarters of the newspaper in Casablanca where Laghzioui works, to protest against Nhari's comments, denounce "terrorism in the name of religion," and voice their support for freedom of expression.

The imam has since insisted that his words, which were swiftly disseminated by social networks and the local press, did not amount to calling for the death of the journalist.

But the public prosecutor in Oujda has ordered a judicial inquiry into the case, fuelling the debate on sexual freedom that was rekindled with the opening last month of a theatre production in Rabat openly supporting freedom for women.

The production was a Moroccan adaptation of "The Vagina Monologues," an award-winning play by US author Eve Ensler that celebrates female sexuality and focuses on the abuses women suffer.

The mostly secular defenders of sexual freedom in Morocco want to see the abolition of article 490 of the penal code, which stipulates a prison sentence of one year and one month for anyone caught having extra-marital sex.

In reality, sex outside marriage is common in Morocco and largely tolerated, with unmarried couples behaving discreetly.

"I don't understand why the state sets itself up, through this article, as the champion of chastity while claiming to have a democratic constitution," Zineb El Rhazoui, founder of a civil society group promoting individual liberty, told AFP.

"The reluctance to decriminalise extra-marital sex amounts to an admission of hypocrisy both by the state and society," the activist said.

Khadija Ryadi, who heads the Moroccan human rights association, agrees that the law is an anomaly.

"We know that sexual relations outside marriage are common in Morocco. The fact that all that is hidden encourages abuse, and attacks on individual liberty," she said.

For their part, the Islamists continue to denounce calls for sexual freedom outside marriage.

Attajdid, the newspaper of Morocco's ruling Party of Justice and Development (PJD), has weighed in on the debate repeatedly, denouncing the sophistry of the liberals.

"There is an intellectual terrorism being exercised against the Islamists to prevent them from communicating their point of view with respect to art and creation," the Islamist daily complained in an editorial last month.

Secular movements "use provocation and permissiveness in their calculations... in order to attack the Islamist movements," it added.

El Moukri Abouzeid, an MP and PJD member, made the point more bluntly.

"Any sexual act outside marriage is considered an act of debauchery, a crime.

"The permissive philosophies, which were born in Europe, have they improved social and family relations there? I don't think so," he said.

[pecan]

while atrocities are committed by atheists and other non religious peoples,the real question is why are similar atrocities committed in the name of religion?

because the reasons that drive deplorable behaviours are independent of religion. Religion is simply a tool that is used by such people.  If they were not religious, they would use a different tool.

Universal Declaration of Human rights by UN as Article-19 says, "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion & expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference & to seek, receive & impart information & ideas through any media & regardless of frontiers"

Religion doh foster that Universal Declaration.

go ahead and quote the UN, an organization that has lost its way.   In any event, your statement doh hold for all religions, at least not for mind. I only have to find one example to render your statement false.

Science has done more for humanity than religion!

and who are the founders of the best universities and scientific institutions?  go look up the history of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Oxfor, Cambridge etc.; all with religious foundations. Yes there was divergence in later years, but one can argue that without the research framework and discipline instituted by religion institutions, science would have been slower in developing.

what about music and architecture? all driven by religion. the knowledge acquired in building the great cathedrals of Europe represent breakthrough in scientific know-how.

I have absolutely no problem with any man deciding that he wants to follow some mythology and live his life under religious dictates.

I have faith in Gravity.

ALL RELIGION is mass hysteria.

hmmm, yet you condemn anyone who holds a religious view at every opportunity. That contradicts your assertion about having "no problem"


Gravity ... ha ha. Isaac Newton "was, as considered by others within his own lifetime, an insightful and erudite theologian".  Go figure.

and you could find mass hysteria outside religion too. Sports, entertainment, politics etc. etc.

[truetrini]

while atrocities are committed by atheists and other non religious peoples,the real question is why are similar atrocities committed in the name of religion?

because the reasons that drive deplorable behaviours are independent of religion. Religion is simply a tool that is used by such people.  If they were not religious, they would use a different tool.

Universal Declaration of Human rights by UN as Article-19 says, "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion & expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference & to seek, receive & impart information & ideas through any media & regardless of frontiers"

Religion doh foster that Universal Declaration.

go ahead and quote the UN, an organization that has lost its way.   In any event, your statement doh hold for all religions, at least not for mind. I only have to find one example to render your statement false.

Science has done more for humanity than religion!

and who are the founders of the best universities and scientific institutions?  go look up the history of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Oxfor, Cambridge etc.; all with religious foundations. Yes there was divergence in later years, but one can argue that without the research framework and discipline instituted by religion institutions, science would have been slower in developing.

what about music and architecture? all driven by religion. the knowledge acquired in building the great cathedrals of Europe represent breakthrough in scientific know-how.

I have absolutely no problem with any man deciding that he wants to follow some mythology and live his life under religious dictates.

I have faith in Gravity.

ALL RELIGION is mass hysteria.

hmmm, yet you condemn anyone who holds a religious view at every opportunity. That contradicts your assertion about having "no problem"


Gravity ... ha ha. Isaac Newton "was, as considered by others within his own lifetime, an insightful and erudite theologian".  Go figure.

and you could find mass hysteria outside religion too. Sports, entertainment, politics etc. etc.

ahhmmmm let me set you straight.   Theologian versus Christian...know the difference?  Professor Newton was not much of a Christian when he disputed the existence of the Trinity!   You are quick to google and seek to discredit me, but you should have read more than the first line of Wiki or wherever you got your information!

Rewind on Newton!   He was a heretic by all standards and while he did believe in a "God."  It is NOT the God you believe in, so doh be too hurry to embrace him   lol  too funny.  Anyway I said I had faith in Gravity not Newton!   steups...weak ass lame ass analogy you use anyway!

Religious people use their belief in their God (s) who by all standards are good, and just to do horrible things....!  You and others can keep your faith in man made gods and organizations called churches.   It is kinda ironic that you invoke mass hysteria, I never referred to religious beliefs as such, but I note your doubt...lol  again too funny.

And yes I concede that educational institutions, indeed some of the very best in this world were created by religious men.   Take a good look at them now and see what role religion plays in their movement forward!  Once we emerged from darkness to light religion and its mind control was left behind!  Go google again.  I see that you have already given up ground claiming divergence...institutions set up to teach religion and to educate religious workers and clergy have morphed..into a greater good...ask yourself why?   Had they remained religious we would still be thinking the earth was flat and the sun goes around the earth!

Puhleeze!

I have no fight with men who want to engage in formal or ceremonious rendering of such honor and homage to man created figments of imaginations.  There is no condemnation only pity.

[truetrini]

According to most scholars, Newton was Arian, not holding to Trinitarianism.[9][22][23] 'In Newton's eyes, worshipping Christ as God was idolatry, to him the fundamental sin'.[24]

As well as being antitrinitarian, Newton allegedly rejected the orthodox doctrines of the immortal soul,[9] a personal devil and literal demons.[9] Although he was not a Socinian he shared many similar beliefs with them.[9] A manuscript he sent to John Locke in which he disputed the existence of the Trinity was never published.

In a minority view, T.C. Pfizenmaier argued Newton was neither "orthodox" nor an Arian,[25] but that, rather, Newton believed both of these groups had wandered into metaphysical speculation.[26] Pfizenmaier also argued that Newton held closer to the Eastern Orthodox view of the Trinity rather than the Western one held by Roman Catholics and Protestants.[26] However, S. D. Snobelen has argued against this from manuscripts produced late in Newton's life which demonstrate Newton rejected the Eastern view of the Trinity.[9]

Newton refused viaticum before his death.[8]

[just cool]

I guess it is only highly.intelligent, widely read and traveled persons like.you who find them progressive, just and humane. people with smarts like.you who embrace them and find them modern people who.contribute much to society today.

and why de f**k you eh write BBC and ask dem to being something new to the table?

who hates more than religious peoples?

Goes to show how much you know bout me, talking all that subjective slop. as ah matter of fact, i think that the arabs are some of the most atrocious backward uncivilized ppl on the planet, and collectively, i also find them to be repulsive racist and extremely unaccommodating, but does that mean justice should evade them for their obvious short comings??

TT you have a reactionary mind set, and more than often takes things @ face value. you tend to believe that if ppl don't measure up to "modern day" western standards, then they are barbaric, fine! but don't deny ppl their humanity bc they don't measure up to the expectations of the west.

i also think it's unfair to blame this on the religion of islam (of which you know very very little of), since the quran never instruct muslims to kill adulterers, but rather "scourge them with 100 lashes"! for yrs muslims lived in the Mideast and africa as constructive members of society and pioneers of science and technology.

the glory days of bagdad, where great minds got together in the study of science astronomy, medicine, engineering mathematics and many more, while western europe was in their darkest ages was never mentioned in the "history books!

the muslims were the ones who went to spain and made it livable while they were oppressed under the Visigoths, spain was the spare headers in european architecture, and you should ask yuhself why.

right now these arabs not following their book, bc if they did, they would not be seen in this negative light. all this killing for adultery, and stoning came out of hadith, and we all know that when muhammad died there was no such book as the hadith, and it's also a known fact that more than half those hadith are fabricated.

muhammad ibn wahab also didn't help, he was the one who brought this religious zealots to the forefront in the 1800s with his hard line approach, but what will you know bout that? you will have to google it in order to keep up.

[just cool]

while atrocities are committed by atheists and other non religious peoples,the real question is why are similar atrocities committed in the name of religion?

Science has done more for humanity than religion!

Universal Declaration of Human rights by UN as Article-19 says, "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion & expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference & to seek, receive & impart information & ideas through any media & regardless of frontiers"

Religion doh foster that Universal Declaration.


I have absolutely no problem with any man deciding that he wants to follow some mythology and live his life under religious dictates.

I have faith in Gravity.

ALL RELIGION is mass hysteria.

This is a very ignorant statement!

science has not always been productive and human friendly. i could also point out the obvious short comings of science. like the atomic bomb, high tech weaponry, napalm, cocaine, xanax, zoloft, phen phen, Prozac ridlin, global warming, deforestation, wild life extinction, a failing eco system, air and water pollution, animal cruelty in labs, and god knows how many Tuskegee experiments went on in the name of science that we're not aware of.

as for science and religion, there are religions that champion science, while there are atheist who claim to be scientifically oriented , but nothing could be farther from the truth. there are scientist on the other hand who are born again christians and devout muslims, like in iran, iraq and saudi arabia, IMO you painting with a silly broad brush guy.

[truetrini]

They are a backward and horrible people. You cannot teach me anything about Wahhabism either.  No need to google it breds.  But Wahabism is not the only radical form of Islam.

Mohammad created a demon..get used to that FACT!

[just cool]

while atrocities are committed by atheists and other non religious peoples,the real question is why are similar atrocities committed in the name of religion?

Science has done more for humanity than religion!

Universal Declaration of Human rights by UN as Article-19 says, "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion & expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference & to seek, receive & impart information & ideas through any media & regardless of frontiers"

Religion doh foster that Universal Declaration.


I have absolutely no problem with any man deciding that he wants to follow some mythology and live his life under religious dictates.

I have faith in Gravity.

ALL RELIGION is mass hysteria.

Nonsense! That have squat to do with science, as ah matter of fact, that is ah democratic declaration, which have zilch to do with the scientific community. 

remember stalin and lennin were atheist, and they did championed science and out law religion, and as you well know, they didn't adhere to these principles. as a matter of fact, they were the two biggest murderers in modern times, and they also were the biggest oppressors, just ask ther checz, matter of fact, the whole eastern block, and they did it all in the name of science and communism.

[truetrini]

If yuo ever read the communist manifesto you would shut up.  Stalin and Lenin championed control of the people.  Communism is a religion!

Karl Marx was not an athiest, he was pretty ambivalent towards religion called it Opium of the people.

Lenin despised religion

[just cool]

had they been religious they still would have been thinking the earth was flat, and the sun goes round the earth.


bred, almost a thousand yrs ago ibn arabi was talking about the heavenly bodies as being were spherecal. .....aahhhmmmmm..... and ibn arabi was a very religious scientist and a sage. 

he also spoke of our solar system having more than 8 planets, and only recently they (the scientific community) discovered that there were nine and counting.

1400 yrs ago in the quran, it is stated that GOD created the samawati wal arz ( the sky and the earth) and the arz moves in an orbit, abnd so does the samma (sun) and the scientific community only just found out that the sun moves in and orbit, yes the big smart atheist believed that the sun stood still up until 20 yrs ago, and the muslims knew this 1400 yrs ago, goes to show how smart these scientific minds are.

[just cool]

Pecan, please bro, we've been through this with this man before! all he's doing is recycling these arguments.

he is like them big atheist close minded fellas, and even if yuh bring real evidence that they are off the mark, they will find a way to wiggle their way out. that's bc they not really taking a neutral stand, matter of fact, they are just as religious in their beliefs, like the rest of us theist, and even more so adamant!

[truetrini]

had they been religious they still would have been thinking the earth was flat, and the sun goes round the earth.


bred, almost a thousand yrs ago ibn arabi was talking about the heavenly bodies being were spherecal. .....aahhhmmmmm..... and ibn arabi was a very religious scientist and a sage. 

he also spoke of our solar system having more than 8 planets, and only recently they (the scientific community) discovered that there were nine and counting.

1400 yrs ago in the quran, it is stated that GOD created the samawati wal arz ( the sky and the earth) and the arz moves in an orbit, abnd so does the samma (sun) and the scientific community only just found out that the sun moves in and orbit, yes the big smart atheist believed that the sun stood still up until 20 yrs ago, and the muslims knew this 1400 yrs ago, goes to show how smart these scientific minds are.

All this Bullshit about Koran with what was already widely known all over the world at that time..nothing new fella you may get tied up with that, but as I said I know a wee bit about History and all you say was ALREADY common knowledge at the time.

Koran was written well after what I said about the earth being flat!

Doh go looking for allies when I cutting allyuh asss

[just cool]

had they been religious they still would have been thinking the earth was flat, and the sun goes round the earth.


bred, almost a thousand yrs ago ibn arabi was talking about the heavenly bodies being were spherecal. .....aahhhmmmmm..... and ibn arabi was a very religious scientist and a sage. 

he also spoke of our solar system having more than 8 planets, and only recently they (the scientific community) discovered that there were nine and counting.

1400 yrs ago in the quran, it is stated that GOD created the samawati wal arz ( the sky and the earth) and the arz moves in an orbit, abnd so does the samma (sun) and the scientific community only just found out that the sun moves in and orbit, yes the big smart atheist believed that the sun stood still up until 20 yrs ago, and the muslims knew this 1400 yrs ago, goes to show how smart these scientific minds are.

All this Bullshit about Koran with what was already widely known all over the world at that time..nothing new fella you may get tied up with that, but as I said I know a wee bit about History and all you say was ALREADY common knowledge at the time.

Koran was written well after what I said about the earth being flat!

Doh go looking for allies when I cutting allyuh asss

Breds, it seems to me that you would do anything to prove a point. i only referred to this bc you was talking bout issac newton, and only when pican told you that newton and all the big ivey league institutions of learning had religious beginnings, you then said "had they stayed on that course then they would still be thinking the earth was flat".

i in turn called you on that and showed where there were religious ppl who was championing science and already knew the earth was spherical as earlry as 1000 yrs ago, even the quran spoke about the heavenly bodies as being spherical and having obits, and you had the nerve to make this sick come back about the quran was written yrs after when ppl believed the world was flat and that knowledge was all over the earth already?? bro yuhs ah real dangerous fella!


FYI, in the 1300s europeans believed that the earth was flat hence the reason columbus was a hero. the quran on the other hand was in existence in 630s, so how could you say that the quaran came after when folks were already privy/ knowledgeable about this fact? 

next thing you will tell me is that ppl already knew that the sun orbited the galaxy back then, when the scientific community only became aware of this in contemporary times. stuuueeepppssss!   you in denial fella

[truetrini]

So yuh does a pack of assness!   Long before the Koran man was talkign about a spherical earth in fact Aristotle stated that the earth was a sphere and that was a common thought based on empirical evidence.  And that was around 300 or so BC

That thoguht spread anywhere the Greeks and dem went including to the Middle East

Yuh is a backward bamsee..yuh eh ready for me.

[Bakes]

I don't even know why you fellas does let truetrini troll allyuh like this. When it comes to religion, particularly Islam, truetrini is like that fella who used to claim Troy Marquis was the best goalkeeper ever in Trinidad.

[truetrini]

In The Histories, written 431–425 BC, Herodotus doubts a report of the sun observed shining from the north. This arises when discussing the circumnavigation of Africa undertaken by Phoenicians under Necho II c. 610–595 BC. (The Histories, 4.42) when they reported that they had the sun on their right when circumnavigating in a clockwise direction. For modern historians this confirms the truth of their report.

Plato (427–347 BC) travelled to southern Italy to study Pythagorean mathematics. When he returned to Athens and established his school, Plato also taught his students that Earth was a sphere though he offered no justifications. If man could soar high above the clouds, Earth would resemble "one of those balls which have leather coverings in twelve pieces, and is decked with various colours, of which the colours used by painters on earth are in a manner samples." [15] In Timaeus, his one work that was available throughout the Middle Ages in Latin, we read that the Creator "made the world in the form of a globe, round as from a lathe, having its extremes in every direction equidistant from the centre, the most perfect and the most like itself of all figures",[16] though the word "world" normally refers to the universe.

Aristotle (384–322 BC) was Plato's prize student and "the mind of the school." Aristotle observed "there are stars seen in Egypt and [...] Cyprus which are not seen in the northerly regions." Since this could only happen on a curved surface, he too believed Earth was a sphere "of no great size, for otherwise the effect of so slight a change of place would not be quickly apparent." (De caelo, 298a2–10)

Aristotle provided physical and observational arguments supporting the idea of a spherical Earth:

    Every portion of the Earth tends toward the center until by compression and convergence they form a sphere. (De caelo, 297a9–21)
    Travelers going south see southern constellations rise higher above the horizon; and
    The shadow of Earth on the Moon during a lunar eclipse is round. (De caelo, 297b31–298a10).

The concepts of symmetry, equilibrium and cyclic repetition permeated Aristotle's work. In his Meteorology he divided the world into five climatic zones: two temperate areas separated by a torrid zone near the equator, and two cold inhospitable regions, "one near our upper or northern pole and the other near the ... southern pole," both impenetrable and girdled with ice (Meteorologica, 362a31–35). Although no humans could survive in the frigid zones, inhabitants in the southern temperate regions could exist.

Eratosthenes (276–194 BC) estimated Earth's circumference around 240 BC. He had heard that in Syene the Sun was directly overhead at the summer solstice whereas in Alexandria it still cast a shadow. Using the differing angles the shadows made as the basis of his trigonometric calculations he estimated a circumference of around 250,000 stades. The length of a 'stade' is not precisely known, but Eratosthenes' figure only has an error of around five to fifteen percent.[17][18][19] Eratosthenes used rough estimates and round numbers, but depending on the length of the stadion, his result is within a margin of between 2% and 20% of the actual meridional circumference, 40,008 kilometres (24,860 mi). Note that Eratosthenes could only measure the circumference of the Earth by assuming that the distance to the Sun is so great that the rays of sunlight are essentially parallel.

Seleucus of Seleucia (c. 190 BC), who lived in the Seleucia region of Mesopotamia, stated that the Earth is spherical (and actually orbits the Sun, influenced by the heliocentric theory of Aristarchus of Samos).

Posidonius (c. 135 – 51 BC) put faith in Eratosthenes's method, though by observing the star Canopus, rather than the sun in establishing the Earth's circumference. In Ptolemy's Geographia, his result was favoured over that of Erastosthenes. Posidonius furthermore expressed the distance of the sun in earth radii.

Claudius Ptolemy (90–168 AD) lived in Alexandria, the centre of scholarship in the 2nd century. In the Almagest, which remained the standard work of astronomy for 1,400 years, he advanced many arguments for the sphericity of the Earth. Among them was the observation that when sailing towards mountains, they seem to rise from the sea, indicating that they were hidden by the curved surface of the sea. He also gives separate arguments that the Earth is curved north-south and that it is curved east-west.[24]

He also produced an eight-volume Geographia dealing with the earth. The first part of the Geographia is a discussion of the data and of the methods he used. As with the model of the solar system in the Almagest, Ptolemy put all this information into a grand scheme. He assigned coordinates to all the places and geographic features he knew, in a grid that spanned the globe (although most of this has been lost). Latitude was measured from the equator, as it is today, but Ptolemy preferred to express it as the length of the longest day rather than degrees of arc (the length of the midsummer day increases from 12h to 24h as you go from the equator to the polar circle). He put the meridian of 0 longitude at the most western land he knew, the Canary Islands.

Geographia indicated the countries of "Serica" and "Sinae" (China) at the extreme right, beyond the island of "Taprobane" (Sri Lanka, oversized) and the "Aurea Chersonesus" (Southeast Asian peninsula).

Ptolemy also devised and provided instructions on how to create maps both of the whole inhabited world (oikoumenč) and of the Roman provinces. In the second part of the Geographia he provided the necessary topographic lists, and captions for the maps. His oikoumenč spanned 180 degrees of longitude from the Canary Islands in the Atlantic Ocean to China, and about 81 degrees of latitude from the Arctic to the East Indies and deep into Africa. Ptolemy was well aware that he knew about only a quarter of the globe.

NOT ONE OF THOSE FELLAS WAS ARABIC

[truetrini]

I don't even know why you fellas does let truetrini troll allyuh like this. When it comes to religion, particularly Islam, truetrini is like that fella who used to claim Troy Marquis was the best goalkeeper ever in Trinidad.

stay out nah     yuh trying to say that Troy was not de best goalkeeper T&T produced?

[truetrini]

With the rise of Greek culture in the east, Hellenistic astronomy filtered eastwards to ancient India where its profound influence became apparent in the early centuries AD.[26] The Greek concept of a spherical earth surrounded by the spheres of planets, vehemently supported by astronomers like Varahamihira and Brahmagupta, supplanted the long-standing Indian cosmological belief in a flat and circular earth disk.[26][27] The works of the classical Indian astronomer and mathematician, Aryabhata (476–550 AD), deal with the sphericity of the Earth and the motion of the planets. The final two parts of his Sanskrit magnum opus, the Aryabhatiya, which were named the Kalakriya ("reckoning of time") and the Gola ("sphere"), state that the Earth is spherical and that its circumference is 4,967 yojanas, which in modern units yields 39,968 km, close to the value already calculated by Eratosthenes in the 3rd century BC.[28] Aryabhata also stated that the apparent rotation of the celestial objects was due to the actual rotation of the Earth. The Aryabhatiya in turn influenced medieval Islamic scholarship.

[truetrini]

Islam is a mish mash and a copy from other religions just as Judaism is...them fellas was trying to create nations dais all.

[just cool]

So yuh does a pack of assness!   Long before the Koran man was talkign about a spherical earth in fact Aristotle stated that the earth was a sphere and that was a common thought based on empirical evidence.  And that was around 300 or so BC

That thoguht spread anywhere the Greeks and dem went including to the Middle East

Yuh is a backward bamsee..yuh eh ready for me.

Yeh but your hypocritcal arse was not taking bout the ancient greeks, so that was totally irrelivant ! we were clearly talking bout the dark ages all the way to the european renneiense and beyond, hence the reason i mentioned the quran.

we were talking bout the direction of the church, and you said, had the institutions of learning was to continue in the way of religion "then the earth as we know it would still be flat"!

 you just don't want to admit yuh was wrong, and yuh don't want tuh give no religious figure any accolades, so stay livin in yuh own head fella!

[truetrini]

So yuh does a pack of assness!   Long before the Koran man was talkign about a spherical earth in fact Aristotle stated that the earth was a sphere and that was a common thought based on empirical evidence.  And that was around 300 or so BC

That thoguht spread anywhere the Greeks and dem went including to the Middle East

Yuh is a backward bamsee..yuh eh ready for me.

Yeh but your hypocritcal arse was not taking bout the ancient greeks, so that was totally irrelivant ! we were clearly talking bout the dark ages all the way to the european renneiense and beyond, hence the reason i mentioned the quran.

we were talking bout the direction of the church, and you said, had the institutions of learning was to continue in the way of religion "then the earth as we know it would still be flat"!

 you just don't want to admit yuh was wrong, and yuh don't want tuh give no religious figure any accolades, so stay livin in yuh own head fella!

Bullshit, is like your brain facking sorf???   

All this Bullshit about Koran with what was already widely known all over the world at that time..nothing new fella you may get tied up with that, but as I said I know a wee bit about History and all you say was ALREADY common knowledge at the time.

Koran was written well after what I said about the earth being flat!

Doh go looking for allies when I cutting allyuh asss

Then you said this shit" 

i in turn called you on that and showed where there were religious ppl who was championing science and already knew the earth was spherical as earlry as 1000 yrs ago, even the quran spoke about the heavenly bodies as being spherical and having obits, and you had the nerve to make this sick come back about the quran was written yrs after when ppl believed the world was flat and that knowledge was all over the earth already?? bro yuhs ah real dangerous fella!

[/color]

Then I respponded to correct yuh dim witted ass:

So yuh does a pack of assness!   Long before the Koran man was talkign about a spherical earth in fact Aristotle stated that the earth was a sphere and that was a common thought based on empirical evidence.  And that was around 300 or so BC

That thoguht spread anywhere the Greeks and dem went including to the Middle East

[just cool]

With the rise of Greek culture in the east, Hellenistic astronomy filtered eastwards to ancient India where its profound influence became apparent in the early centuries AD.[26] The Greek concept of a spherical earth surrounded by the spheres of planets, vehemently supported by astronomers like Varahamihira and Brahmagupta, supplanted the long-standing Indian cosmological belief in a flat and circular earth disk.[26][27] The works of the classical Indian astronomer and mathematician, Aryabhata (476–550 AD), deal with the sphericity of the Earth and the motion of the planets. The final two parts of his Sanskrit magnum opus, the Aryabhatiya, which were named the Kalakriya ("reckoning of time") and the Gola ("sphere"), state that the Earth is spherical and that its circumference is 4,967 yojanas, which in modern units yields 39,968 km, close to the value already calculated by Eratosthenes in the 3rd century BC.[28] Aryabhata also stated that the apparent rotation of the celestial objects was due to the actual rotation of the Earth. The Aryabhatiya in turn influenced medieval Islamic scholarship.

I just have one question fuh yuh. how come the arab scientist and astronomers knew that the SUN ORBITED THE GALAXY AND THE GREEKS DIDN'T, IF THEY WERE TRULY INFLUENCED AND TAUGHT BY THE GREEKS, THEN WHY DIDN'T THE GREEKS KNOW IT?

even modern day scientist had no clue of the sun movements until quite recently.