Just One Question

[royal]

Lets put all the cards on the table.........After coming off the countries greatest football achievement, which many of our forerunners did'nt live to see, and after missing out on '90, being denied a second time.There seems to be one question that is plaguing us all. Whether we want to admit it or not,whether we support Beenie or not,whether we are a high flying coach or player or one who never kick a mango.
We may be divided on tactics,we may be divided on player selection etc.
We don't know how much minutes Wise played or Jones orSamuels or Glenn or any other player who came off the bench but we do know that one player got 23 mins of the world cup.
It leads to my question:Why as Trinis we believe almost unanimously Latas should have played/featured more in the world cup and Beenie did'nt.Is it that we knew something that he did'nt ? or Bennie knew something that we did'nt ?

[Rastaman]

It is our privelidge as human beings to have our own opinion and as Trini's we are no different to any part of the world. Every team that played in the world cup had critics and detractors. Klingsman for example was having his head called for daily.

It is not because we are Trini's. Any country's website you go on you will see the same discussions.


We reach so we behaving like we reach.

[Touches]

The same way why men harping and cyar get over Latas 23 min of glory .......it have other men who want to know why Stern get 270 min and Theobold nearly the same.

Just get over it!

Say thanks for everybody contribution and move orn.

Hindsight is 20-20 and is a setta woulda, shoulda coulda.

Channel the energy and the looking for answers to the players of this campaign and look to see how we could reach 2010.

[ribbit]

with respeck rastaman, the way royal phrase that, it sound like he referring to Trinis' evaluation of Latapy in particular rather than Trinis' evaluation of players selected in general.

beenhakker had his own informed evaluation of the opposition (sweden, england, paraguay) and the role that latapy could have played against these sides. so far, i haven't read anything from beenhakker or assistants trying to justify this decision, which to me suggests he wasn't regretting it.

beenhakker did make a comment about the team after the games were played suggesting that it would have been nice if the players played "with more confidence". alot of ppl might agree that the team plays with confidence when latapy is on the field. i wonder if beenhakker was hoping that this confident play was possible without latapy on the field. i certainly hope it is possible.

[palos]

Lets put all the cards on the table.........After coming off the countries greatest football achievement, which many of our forerunners did'nt live to see, and after missing out on '90, being denied a second time.There seems to be one question that is plaguing us all. Whether we want to admit it or not,whether we support Beenie or not,whether we are a high flying coach or player or one who never kick a mango.
We may be divided on tactics,we may be divided on player selection etc.
We don't know how much minutes Wise played or Jones orSamuels or Glenn or any other player who came off the bench but we do know that one player got 23 mins of the world cup.
It leads to my question:Why as Trinis we believe almost unanimously Latas should have played/featured more in the world cup and Beenie did'nt.Is it that we knew something that he did'nt ? or Bennie knew something that we did'nt ?

Sometimes I get the distinct impression that some people felt the main purpose of our WC appearance was to be some sort of "testimonial to Russell Latapy".  An opportunity to show the entire world what we had known and/or believed in our hearts all along....that Latas is one of the greatest players ever in World football and here was the perfect opportunity to demonstrate to one and sundry that T&T could produce such a footballing gem, right up there with the Zidane's, Ronaldinho's etc of the footballing world.

You see statements like "I have been following Latapy for the past 20 years".  Interestingly, not "I have been following T&T"....but Latapy.  Is almost as if the results of our TEAM were inconsequential, as long as Latas was given his turn in the biggest spotlight in football.  Other statements like "How Beenhakker could diss Latas like that?  Doesn't he know how much he means to the people of T&T?" etc. reinforce my speculation that some would rather us have lost heavily, as long as Latas was able to play.  Now, there is no correlation between Latas playing and us losing heavily, but in the system that was designed for us to COMPETE, it was obvious that Latas was not foremost in that plan.  To be honest, while my sentiment was very disappointed, I couldn't argue with the logic of the reality.

Well, I am an unabashed Russell Latapy fan.  I endorse 100% the statement in bold above to the extent that I truly believe Latas to be among the best footballers I have seen.  That he is Trinbagonian makes the sentiment that much stronger and I make no apologies for that.

However, the facts of the matter are that while I will always consider Latas to be among the best I have seen in the game, T&T DID NOT go to Germany to play a personal testimonial.  We went there not just to show up, but to compete.  As far as I am concerned....mission accomplished from that standpoint.

Was I disappointed that Latas did not play more?  Of course.  That goes without saying.  I wasn't able to stay to see the Paraguay game so I never saw Russell Latapy LIVE at the World Cup....one of 2 things that I had fervently wished for (the other being able to witness us score a legitimate goal in the opposition net) that didn't happen. 

The thing is, I trusted our technical team to prepare our team to perform in the best way possible.  I believe they did so.  At the end of the day, this was the same technical staff that did not select Latas in the starting line up against Bahrain in our crucial WC playoff game on Novermber 16, 2005.  We went on to win that game and the decision to play Latas at the start was deemed then to be GUTSY, and TACTICALLY CORRECT.  Beenhakker was then hailed as a coach had the courage of his convictions.  Even the public naysayers were forced to concede that it was the correct move. 

Had we lost that game however, I'm somehow thinking that the whole Latas debate would have been ignited right then.  In the final tally, when you win....people have to eat dey biscuit and hush dey mout.  But lose and heaven help yuh.

[Disgruntled_Trini]

it have other men who want to know why Stern get 270 min and Theobold nearly the same.

Just get over it!

boy oh boy

[Midknight]

It leads to my question:Why as Trinis we believe almost unanimously Latas should have played/featured more in the world cup

I glad you put that almost in there...

[berris]

WHAP dead horse ..WHAAAATAP ....we really know how tuh beat it .

[Organic]

u still with that steuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupssssssss

[royal]

u still with that steuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupssssssss

WHAP dead horse ..WHAAAATAP ....we really know how tuh beat it .

I guess we can't agree to disagree on this forum anymore without carrying down someone.I guess the rules have change since we first started.Anyway doh worry.....you'll can continue on.

[berris]

u still with that steuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupssssssss

WHAP dead horse ..WHAAAATAP ....we really know how tuh beat it .

I guess we can't agree to disagree on this forum anymore without carrying down someone.I guess the rules have change since we first started.Anyway doh worry.....you'll can continue on.

me eh carrying yuh down dread I just adding my 2cents to ah topic I find is completely drawn out,IMO we cud read some past post and get the same answer to yuh 'one question' dis is ah topic that nearly every formite give dey opinion on de 'Latas' thing already and if dey did not it's not like I telling formites  not to ans yuh 'one question...Lighten up de boss  nobody en carrying yuh down,just giving an opinion....

[pecan]

Royal .. i'm relatively new ... so i never commented before on this

here is my 2 cents too ... the coach decided ... happens in every team sport .. one player will get less game time and outside obervers will always have a their own opinion as to why.  Could be personal or it could be based on gamme strategy.

[morvant]

royal i doh care what nobody think bout me so ill answer you truthfully

de world cup had NO BEAT point blank and i blasted vex cause i c latas come on and share some quick, quick small beat.

carlos iz de closest to some beat we see, what roney do between de feller legs was not ah spanner, dumplimdinho didnt share one fart and de list goes on.........

latas woulda share more and more beat and thats what trini's wanted to see

personally i think beat should be ah stat...   i doest watch game and forget de score b4 ah nice cyap. and i remember de last pro league game de number 10 from connection i think share one on de cali man( i doh remember none ah dey names but de beat lasts ah lifetime)

and thats y we wanted to see latas

[Remie]

Beenhakker will always be the man that lead us to the World Cup for the first time in our history. No one can take that away from him. He took us from near down and out and put us on the footballing map and for that I will be forever grateful.

However most people on this site talk as if Beenhakker is beyond criticism. One bad word mentioned about Beenhakker and everyone gets rile up.

Lets face it, the only time T&T beat a decent team was against Mexico when Latapy was playing. I really feel that in the World Cup, if Latapy was match fit, Beenhakker has made both a costly error and also robbed us of seeing Latapy light up the World Cup. He should have come on for 20 minutes against England and started against Paraguay.

Overall though, this was one of only a few criticisms I could possibly make of Beenhakker because everything else that he has done for the T&T national team has been exemplary.

Talk done.

[spideybuff]

It leads to my question:Why as Trinis we believe almost unanimously Latas should have played/featured more in the world cup and Beenie did'nt.Is it that we knew something that he did'nt ? or Bennie knew something that we did'nt ?

Yup...we know what Latapy is capable of and he obviously didn't. We seeing him play for nearly 20 years now...he see him play for less than a year. So we definitely knew something that Beenie didn't. He had no faith that we were capable of scoring, which is why we ultimately didn't. It;s called the self-fulfilling prophecy.

[kicker]

People still raise the Latas issue because he came on and had a good 20 mins....so people were left wondering "what if"...

If Latas came on and had a bad game, (which was also possible) then everyone woulda kept their mouth shut on the Latas issue....

[maxg]

People still raise the Latas issue because he came on and had a good 20 mins....so people were left wondering "what if"...

If Latas came on and had a bad game, (which was also possible) then everyone woulda kept their mouth shut on the Latas issue....

nah..it woulda because he didn't get ah run in the fust 2 games and he spirit was broken...cyar win with this one....that is a lot of love flowing downstream...

[Dutty]

To succinctly answer your question as to Why?

...because everybody in Trinidad is ah gifted athletic scholar

Everybody in T&T coached foooball teams at an international level

Everybody in T&T has the formula for Bovell to shave a few seconds off his swimming time

Everybody in T&T knows exactly what Brown & Burns need to start winning 100m sprints

Everybody in Trinidad knows what will make the WI cricket team top of the pile again

This is All done  from the comforts of their couch with a ripped draws and a buss up pair of slippers on.........after the event is over

Nevertheless,, they KNOW more than people who actually do the job for a living what is required to win
And if the puppets on their tv screen do not adhere to their coaching instructions from the sofa...they will feel the wrath

Thus, people of T&T are true geniuses

[samo]

palos.. yuh answer is so true... I was also in Germany and was not able to stay for the Paraguay game. I love watching T&T play and idolize Latas. I was disappointed to not see him play live,but I wnt to Germany to see T&T play first and foremost... If Latas was on de field would have been a huge bonus for me, but I cannot complain about the games. T&T played to their game plan and silenced the critics everywhere.... Not only did Beenie take us to our first WC , but our team won the heart and respect of many... Who could ask for more... I try to put things in perspective for the people I work with, they ask me if I am disappointed, all I say is the stae we currenty live in (Rhode Island) is approximately the same popultion as T&T, if USA selceted a team from only RI, do you think they could make it to the WC with the best coach in the world?? If they somehow did, how well do you think they would do???

[andre samuel]

I have no problems with this topic, but i want alyuh to remember this......it is easier to be cavilier in post mortem than pragmatic in execution!!         (ah tiefin dis one)

we only singing the words to this latapy song as if we knew it all along but in truth and fact, we just hear the tune on de radio.

ah love it!!

[ribbit]

royal i doh care what nobody think bout me so ill answer you truthfully

de world cup had NO BEAT point blank and i blasted vex cause i c latas come on and share some quick, quick small beat.

carlos iz de closest to some beat we see, what roney do between de feller legs was not ah spanner, dumplimdinho didnt share one fart and de list goes on.........

latas woulda share more and more beat and thats what trini's wanted to see

personally i think beat should be ah stat...   i doest watch game and forget de score b4 ah nice cyap. and i remember de last pro league game de number 10 from connection i think share one on de cali man( i doh remember none ah dey names but de beat lasts ah lifetime)

and thats y we wanted to see latas

    i now see dis. and what yuh go do with beat as a stat? instead of penalty kicks, check who share the most beat? i fuh dat!

[Filho]

It leads to my question:Why as Trinis we believe almost unanimously Latas should have played/featured more in the world cup and Beenie did'nt.Is it that we knew something that he did'nt ? or Bennie knew something that we did'nt ?

Yup...we know what Latapy is capable of and he obviously didn't. We seeing him play for nearly 20 years now...he see him play for less than a year. So we definitely knew something that Beenie didn't. He had no faith that we were capable of scoring, which is why we ultimately didn't. It;s called the self-fulfilling prophecy.

No disrespect..but I hadda disagree with this one. I really doubt there was anything we knew that Beenie didn't. Beenie saw enough of Latas to know what he was capable of. He even started him against Guatemala..when he had seen even less of him. Latas came on and was brilliant against Paraguay, but Beenie not playing him probably had nothing to do with ignorance, just tactics. Perhaps not playing Latas was a mistake, everyone is free to speculate on that. But If Beenie did not believe we could score I doubt we would have started with 2 forwards against England and Paraguay, given his previous use of the 4-5-1 system. His subs against England would have also been more defensive when it looked like we could hold out for a draw...I dunno...I not going to say Beenie is untouchable, but I think he put out teams for the England and Paraguay games that were meant to have more attacking punch thatn we give them credit for..we just met some beastly teams that often had us on the back foot

[Remie]

I have no problems with this topic, but i want alyuh to remember this......it is easier to be cavilier in post mortem than pragmatic in execution!!         (ah tiefin dis one)

we only singing the words to this latapy song as if we knew it all along but in truth and fact, we just hear the tune on de radio.

ah love it!!

When it was 0-0 against England with 20 minutes to go i woulda be very suprised if i was the only one that was calling for Latapy to help us keep possession because it was quite obvious we couldn't hold the ball in midfield.

I would also be suprised if i was the only one who get damn vex when i see theobald in the starting line-up against Paraguay in place of Latapy or Samuel because we had to win the game or score a goal at the very least.

I see what you are saying with your 'tune on de radio' ting but i don't believe that analogy works here, in my case anyway.

Everybody makes mistakes and we just have to be honest and admit that Beenhakker made a mistake. It is as simple as that.

[Filho]

I have no problems with this topic, but i want alyuh to remember this......it is easier to be cavilier in post mortem than pragmatic in execution!!         (ah tiefin dis one)

we only singing the words to this latapy song as if we knew it all along but in truth and fact, we just hear the tune on de radio.

ah love it!!

When it was 0-0 against England with 20 minutes to go i woulda be very suprised if i was the only one that was calling for Latapy to help us keep possession because it was quite obvious we couldn't hold the ball in midfield.

I would also be suprised if i was the only one who get damn vex when i see theobald in the starting line-up against Paraguay in place of Latapy or Samuel because we had to win the game or score a goal at the very least.

I see what you are saying with your 'tune on de radio' ting but i don't believe that analogy works here, in my case anyway.

Everybody makes mistakes and we just have to be honest and admit that Beenhakker made a mistake. It is as simple as that.

I think you are the one who needs to be honest. How would Latapy have played against Sweden or England? Guess what?...noone knows and noone can guarantee that Latapy would have shone. Has Latapy never had a bad game....has he always been a game winner for T&T? No. All we have are our hunches..our beliefs...strong opinions, but recognize that is all they are. Be perfectly honest and you will realize what I am saying is true...it is ridiculous to admit Beenhaker definitely made a mistake...maybe he did, but can't you realize we are playing 'what if' here? There is no truth or right vs. wrong..just opinions and second guessing. Did you go to an alternate universe and saw what would happen if Latas played and now have the truth? No..So there is nothing to admit. Now if you say you strongly believe Beenie was in the wrong and you really believe he made a mistake...cool, but what you saying there makes no sense...unless you are God..in which case..my sincerest apologies

[kicker]

I think he put out teams for the England and Paraguay games that were meant to have more attacking punch thatn we give them credit for..we just met some beastly teams that often had us on the back foot

I'm glad someone can finally admit to that.

[ON DE BLOCK]

People still raise the Latas issue because he came on and had a good 20 mins....so people were left wondering "what if"...

If Latas came on and had a bad game, (which was also possible) then everyone woulda kept their mouth shut on the Latas issue....

So true, Latas 20 mins in the 06 WC, and Latas 90 mins in the 89 WC qualifier, now that we can look back at the two performances his 90 mins is nothing compared to his 20 mins, what if.....

[ribbit]

People still raise the Latas issue because he came on and had a good 20 mins....so people were left wondering "what if"...

If Latas came on and had a bad game, (which was also possible) then everyone woulda kept their mouth shut on the Latas issue....

So true, Latas 20 mins in the 06 WC, and Latas 90 mins in the 89 WC qualifier, now that we can look back at the two performances his 90 mins is nothing compared to his 20 mins, what if.....

latapy had excellent performances against guatamala and a b-side mexico in the qualifiers but against costa rica (who also qualified incidentally) ... the story was different. we'll never know ....

[palos]

A lot of people talkin about Theobald playin before Latapy and I jes have to ask...

Anybody here know what Theobald ROLE on de team was?

If they do, do they think Latas could have played that ROLE better than Theobald?

Think carefully.  Remember what Theobald said to Beckham minutes before the England game.

[TrinInfinite]

A lot of people talkin about Theobald playin before Latapy and I jes have to ask...

Anybody here know what Theobald ROLE on de team was?

If they do, do they think Latas could have played that ROLE better than Theobald?

Think carefully.  Remember what Theobald said to Beckham minutes before the England game.

theobald can run for 90 minutes, hes not a creative mid, he is a defensive midfielder, who holds possesion, hes isnt a genuine playmaker like latas, but he does something that latas doesnt, tackle often and play the defensive role, by the way palos, all your posts in this topic so far has been spot on, very good posts bredda, but one question, what did bleeder say tuh beckham?

[Remie]

I have no problems with this topic, but i want alyuh to remember this......it is easier to be cavilier in post mortem than pragmatic in execution!!        (ah tiefin dis one)

we only singing the words to this latapy song as if we knew it all along but in truth and fact, we just hear the tune on de radio.

ah love it!!

When it was 0-0 against England with 20 minutes to go i woulda be very suprised if i was the only one that was calling for Latapy to help us keep possession because it was quite obvious we couldn't hold the ball in midfield.

I would also be suprised if i was the only one who get damn vex when i see theobald in the starting line-up against Paraguay in place of Latapy or Samuel because we had to win the game or score a goal at the very least.

I see what you are saying with your 'tune on de radio' ting but i don't believe that analogy works here, in my case anyway.

Everybody makes mistakes and we just have to be honest and admit that Beenhakker made a mistake. It is as simple as that.

I think you are the one who needs to be honest. How would Latapy have played against Sweden or England? Guess what?...noone knows and noone can guarantee that Latapy would have shone. Has Latapy never had a bad game....has he always been a game winner for T&T? No. All we have are our hunches..our beliefs...strong opinions, but recognize that is all they are. Be perfectly honest and you will realize what I am saying is true...it is ridiculous to admit Beenhaker definitely made a mistake...maybe he did, but can't you realize we are playing 'what if' here? There is no truth or right vs. wrong..just opinions and second guessing. Did you go to an alternate universe and saw what would happen if Latas played and now have the truth? No..So there is nothing to admit. Now if you say you strongly believe Beenie was in the wrong and you really believe he made a mistake...cool, but what you saying there makes no sense...unless you are God..in which case..my sincerest apologies

Obviously i am not saying that im god and i know everything but if someone critisises Beenhakker everyone jumps up and talking like how a man could say such a thing. Some of you are carrying on as if Beenhakker is god!

Just to clarify my stance on the Theobald thing. When you have got Whitley and Birchall playing as two holding midfielders and Yorke just in front it is extremely negative to throw in another defensive midfielder especially against Paraguay.

Beenhakker in my opinion put Theobald in against England to nullify Beckham's threat from crosses which was fair enough as that is all Beckham can do but if you read my other points clearly you will see what i said.

I may have been a bit heavy handed with my wording but I stand by what i said about Beenhakker making a mistake although i respect your opinion to feel differently.