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Offline rotatopoti3

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I dont understand....
« on: February 28, 2011, 06:57:19 AM »
We are seeing a wave for change in North Africa from Tunisia,Egypt and soon to be Libya...with Yemen, Saudi,Bahrain and Iran knocking closeby.....


Although I agree a leader shouldnt have control for 40 years......


We are seeing Western pressure to get rid of their leaders whom they refer to as Dictators. Is it me or is this Western Imperialism at its finest.......

Will we see the same of Chavez, Castro and Kim Jung Il before the year is over?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 06:59:42 AM by rotatopoti3 »
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2011, 07:47:46 AM »
By strict definition it not imperialism, but the stance of some of these nations is hypocritical. The Canadian Prime minister is making a big noise about freezing Ghaddafi's assets in Canadian. But they had no problem doing business with Libya and accepting his money last month.

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Offline rotatopoti3

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 09:09:08 AM »
..I agree its hypocrisy at its finest....curious to see how China will turn out....

Will Obama come out and say..time for Wen Jiabao and his socialist cronies to leave China...

Today we are seeing the breakdown of Islamic countries and in the late 80's and early 90's we saw the breakdown of the East block....

Wonder if Capitalist societies are next.....
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Offline RehanaOmardeenfan

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 10:16:14 AM »
We are seeing a wave for change in North Africa from Tunisia,Egypt and soon to be Libya...with Yemen, Saudi,Bahrain and Iran knocking closeby.....


Although I agree a leader shouldnt have control for 40 years......


We are seeing Western pressure to get rid of their leaders whom they refer to as Dictators. Is it me or is this Western Imperialism at its finest.......

Will we see the same of Chavez, Castro and Kim Jung Il before the year is over?

It is Western Imperialism....peep this:

Obama wants Gadaffi to step down because his country is protesting and wants him out, yet Obama himself will never stand down when tea party people protest and want him out in America.

It is nothing more than Western hypocrisy.

Offline elan

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 10:36:41 AM »
We are seeing a wave for change in North Africa from Tunisia,Egypt and soon to be Libya...with Yemen, Saudi,Bahrain and Iran knocking closeby.....


Although I agree a leader shouldnt have control for 40 years......


We are seeing Western pressure to get rid of their leaders whom they refer to as Dictators. Is it me or is this Western Imperialism at its finest.......

Will we see the same of Chavez, Castro and Kim Jung Il before the year is over?

It is Western Imperialism....peep this:

Obama wants Gadaffi to step down because his country is protesting and wants him out, yet Obama himself will never stand down when tea party people protest and want him out in America.

It is nothing more than Western hypocrisy.


 ???
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/blUSVALW_Z4</a>

Offline Dutty

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 10:44:03 AM »
We are seeing a wave for change in North Africa from Tunisia,Egypt and soon to be Libya...with Yemen, Saudi,Bahrain and Iran knocking closeby.....


Although I agree a leader shouldnt have control for 40 years......


We are seeing Western pressure to get rid of their leaders whom they refer to as Dictators. Is it me or is this Western Imperialism at its finest.......

Will we see the same of Chavez, Castro and Kim Jung Il before the year is over?

It is Western Imperialism....peep this:

Obama wants Gadaffi to step down because his country is protesting and wants him out, yet Obama himself will never stand down when tea party people protest and want him out in America.

It is nothing more than Western hypocrisy.


 ???

he have a homage face of ah lil gyirl over de face of jesus...yuh hopin for logic?
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Offline lefty

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 10:50:17 AM »
We are seeing a wave for change in North Africa from Tunisia,Egypt and soon to be Libya...with Yemen, Saudi,Bahrain and Iran knocking closeby.....


Although I agree a leader shouldnt have control for 40 years......


We are seeing Western pressure to get rid of their leaders whom they refer to as Dictators. Is it me or is this Western Imperialism at its finest.......

Will we see the same of Chavez, Castro and Kim Jung Il before the year is over?

It is Western Imperialism....peep this:

Obama wants Gadaffi to step down because his country is protesting and wants him out, yet Obama himself will never stand down when tea party people protest and want him out in America.

It is nothing more than Western hypocrisy.


 ???

he have a homage face of ah lil gyirl over de face of jesus...yuh hopin for logic?
:D
I pity the fool....

Offline Daft Trini

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 10:53:04 AM »
buy stock in arms and oil... Strum Ruger Stock prices have sky rocketed since Obummer took office  :devil:

Offline Preacher

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 12:14:39 PM »
We are seeing a wave for change in North Africa from Tunisia,Egypt and soon to be Libya...with Yemen, Saudi,Bahrain and Iran knocking closeby.....


Although I agree a leader shouldnt have control for 40 years......


We are seeing Western pressure to get rid of their leaders whom they refer to as Dictators. Is it me or is this Western Imperialism at its finest.......

Will we see the same of Chavez, Castro and Kim Jung Il before the year is over?

It is Western Imperialism....peep this:

Obama wants Gadaffi to step down because his country is protesting and wants him out, yet Obama himself will never stand down when tea party people protest and want him out in America.

It is nothing more than Western hypocrisy.

 If they want Obama out they could just vote.  They don't have to rebel like in Libya or other places. 
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Offline JDB

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 06:04:53 PM »
We are seeing a wave for change in North Africa from Tunisia,Egypt and soon to be Libya...with Yemen, Saudi,Bahrain and Iran knocking closeby.....


Although I agree a leader shouldnt have control for 40 years......


We are seeing Western pressure to get rid of their leaders whom they refer to as Dictators. Is it me or is this Western Imperialism at its finest.......

Will we see the same of Chavez, Castro and Kim Jung Il before the year is over?

Where is this Western pressure? Who in the "West" make a Tunisian set himself on fire? Of the countries you name only Iran and Libya have leaders that are not accepted by the West, and even Libya was accepted by the international community.

The West has taken a very "wait and see" approach in the name of stability. They could have easily come out against all of these "dictators" if they wanted to but they clearly haven't


By strict definition it not imperialism, but the stance of some of these nations is hypocritical. The Canadian Prime minister is making a big noise about freezing Ghaddafi's assets in Canadian. But they had no problem doing business with Libya and accepting his money last month.

I would guess that he was not killing his own people in public, using imported mercenaries, last month. Unless you believe that Gaddafi has a right to kill his own people to maintain power then why shouldn't states exert political pressure to stop the bloodshed.

If there is any hypocrisy at play it is that Western nations are not showing enough current support to these freedom movements.



It is Western Imperialism....peep this:

Obama wants Gadaffi to step down because his country is protesting and wants him out, yet Obama himself will never stand down when tea party people protest and want him out in America.

It is nothing more than Western hypocrisy.

Isn't Obama a democratically elected leader in a country with free and fair election and a fully functioning opposition that, as much as they don't like him,  recognizes his legitimacy as President. How in any way is Tea Party protests analogous to what is happening in Libya?



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Offline Bakes

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2011, 06:16:11 PM »
^^^ You have time...

Offline D.H.W

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2011, 07:01:01 PM »
We are seeing a wave for change in North Africa from Tunisia,Egypt and soon to be Libya...with Yemen, Saudi,Bahrain and Iran knocking closeby.....


Although I agree a leader shouldnt have control for 40 years......


We are seeing Western pressure to get rid of their leaders whom they refer to as Dictators. Is it me or is this Western Imperialism at its finest.......

Will we see the same of Chavez, Castro and Kim Jung Il before the year is over?

It is Western Imperialism....peep this:

Obama wants Gadaffi to step down because his country is protesting and wants him out, yet Obama himself will never stand down when tea party people protest and want him out in America.

It is nothing more than Western hypocrisy.


 ???

he have a homage face of ah lil gyirl over de face of jesus...yuh hopin for logic?

LOL harhar   :devil:
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Offline RehanaOmardeenfan

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2011, 07:47:34 PM »
We are seeing a wave for change in North Africa from Tunisia,Egypt and soon to be Libya...with Yemen, Saudi,Bahrain and Iran knocking closeby.....


Although I agree a leader shouldnt have control for 40 years......


We are seeing Western pressure to get rid of their leaders whom they refer to as Dictators. Is it me or is this Western Imperialism at its finest.......

Will we see the same of Chavez, Castro and Kim Jung Il before the year is over?

It is Western Imperialism....peep this:

Obama wants Gadaffi to step down because his country is protesting and wants him out, yet Obama himself will never stand down when tea party people protest and want him out in America.

It is nothing more than Western hypocrisy.

 If they want Obama out they could just vote.  They don't have to rebel like in Libya or other places. 

Not everybody can vote.

If I lived in America even if I was born there they wouldnt allow me to vote based on my age...That isnt any different from the authoritarian dictatorship Gadaffi has.

Offline pecan

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2011, 07:53:29 PM »
[

Not everybody can vote.

If I lived in America even if I was born there they wouldnt allow me to vote based on my age...That isnt any different from the authoritarian dictatorship Gadaffi has.

LOL ... if you ever decide to emigrate, remember not to chose USA or any other Western nation that doh allow you to vote because of your age. Libya, Iran, go for it.

Or are you just trolling?
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Offline RehanaOmardeenfan

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2011, 08:18:57 PM »
[

Not everybody can vote.

If I lived in America even if I was born there they wouldnt allow me to vote based on my age...That isnt any different from the authoritarian dictatorship Gadaffi has.

LOL ... if you ever decide to emigrate, remember not to chose USA or any other Western nation that doh allow you to vote because of your age. Libya, Iran, go for it.

Or are you just trolling?

Im in USA

and is it only trolling if I say something that you dont agree with my royal highness? :-\

Offline ribbit

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2011, 10:20:53 PM »
there is some western hypocrisy but it's not readily apparent in the rhetoric.

if tunisia, egypt, yemen, bahrain go up in flames, dese countries doh really affect de oil supply.

libya does to an extent.

saudi arabia is de litmus test. if saudi arabia becomes like an egypt, dat is a chance to see western hypocrisy in action. this also mean de sauds will get alot of latitude in how they deal with demonstrators. it sound like ghaddafi setting a new mark in terms of abuses, but de west go tolerate that and more to keep saudi arabia stable.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 10:39:53 PM by ribbit »

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2011, 11:21:18 PM »

By strict definition it not imperialism, but the stance of some of these nations is hypocritical. The Canadian Prime minister is making a big noise about freezing Ghaddafi's assets in Canadian. But they had no problem doing business with Libya and accepting his money last month.

I would guess that he was not killing his own people in public, using imported mercenaries, last month. Unless you believe that Gaddafi has a right to kill his own people to maintain power then why shouldn't states exert political pressure to stop the bloodshed.

If there is any hypocrisy at play it is that Western nations are not showing enough current support to these freedom movements.


So a man remains in power for 40+ years with no sign of legitimate elections, sponsors terrorism around the world, ammasses a fortune of billions of dollars because he is a sweet and charming kinda guy.


I guess no repression ever occurred because nobody ever noticed before.

And when did killing yuh ‘own people’ suddenly become so morally superior to killing those who are not your ‘own people’?

Here is a dirty little well kept secret. Canada is one of the largest arms dealers in the world. They are especially adept at selling weapons to repressive third world regimes.  Some of them are being used right now in Libya to repress and kill Ghaddif’s ‘own people’. The Canadian Prime minister is very willing to leave his 'own people' stranded in Libya and grandstand about 'freedom'. Expedient diplomacy at its best.

Where was the West when East Timor, Rwanda and southern Sudan were soaked in rivers of blood? No oil worth grabbing? Or does a revolution have to be fought on twitter and facebook to be legitimate
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 01:08:35 AM by ZANDOLIE »
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2011, 11:33:46 PM »
there is some western hypocrisy but it's not readily apparent in the rhetoric.

if tunisia, egypt, yemen, bahrain go up in flames, dese countries doh really affect de oil supply.

libya does to an extent.

saudi arabia is de litmus test. if saudi arabia becomes like an egypt, dat is a chance to see western hypocrisy in action. this also mean de sauds will get alot of latitude in how they deal with demonstrators. it sound like ghaddafi setting a new mark in terms of abuses, but de west go tolerate that and more to keep saudi arabia stable.

Possible,  BUT it will only become widely evident if social unrest is driven by Wahabbist sentiment. And those folks are very well paid to shut up and play nice, so its doubtful any momentum will hold traction in Saudi Arabia at this time.

I think the House of Saud can sleep well at this point.


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Offline ribbit

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2011, 12:21:23 PM »

By strict definition it not imperialism, but the stance of some of these nations is hypocritical. The Canadian Prime minister is making a big noise about freezing Ghaddafi's assets in Canadian. But they had no problem doing business with Libya and accepting his money last month.

I would guess that he was not killing his own people in public, using imported mercenaries, last month. Unless you believe that Gaddafi has a right to kill his own people to maintain power then why shouldn't states exert political pressure to stop the bloodshed.

If there is any hypocrisy at play it is that Western nations are not showing enough current support to these freedom movements.


So a man remains in power for 40+ years with no sign of legitimate elections, sponsors terrorism around the world, ammasses a fortune of billions of dollars because he is a sweet and charming kinda guy.


I guess no repression ever occurred because nobody ever noticed before.

And when did killing yuh ‘own people’ suddenly become so morally superior to killing those who are not your ‘own people’?

Here is a dirty little well kept secret. Canada is one of the largest arms dealers in the world. They are especially adept at selling weapons to repressive third world regimes.  Some of them are being used right now in Libya to repress and kill Ghaddif’s ‘own people’. The Canadian Prime minister is very willing to leave his 'own people' stranded in Libya and grandstand about 'freedom'. Expedient diplomacy at its best.

Where was the West when East Timor, Rwanda and southern Sudan were soaked in rivers of blood? No oil worth grabbing? Or does a revolution have to be fought on twitter and facebook to be legitimate


zandolie, southern sudan have plenty oil.

is de point yuh making dat de West is unprincipled and does double talk? ???

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2011, 03:15:32 PM »

By strict definition it not imperialism, but the stance of some of these nations is hypocritical. The Canadian Prime minister is making a big noise about freezing Ghaddafi's assets in Canadian. But they had no problem doing business with Libya and accepting his money last month.

I would guess that he was not killing his own people in public, using imported mercenaries, last month. Unless you believe that Gaddafi has a right to kill his own people to maintain power then why shouldn't states exert political pressure to stop the bloodshed.

If there is any hypocrisy at play it is that Western nations are not showing enough current support to these freedom movements.


So a man remains in power for 40+ years with no sign of legitimate elections, sponsors terrorism around the world, ammasses a fortune of billions of dollars because he is a sweet and charming kinda guy.


I guess no repression ever occurred because nobody ever noticed before.

And when did killing yuh ‘own people’ suddenly become so morally superior to killing those who are not your ‘own people’?

Here is a dirty little well kept secret. Canada is one of the largest arms dealers in the world. They are especially adept at selling weapons to repressive third world regimes.  Some of them are being used right now in Libya to repress and kill Ghaddif’s ‘own people’. The Canadian Prime minister is very willing to leave his 'own people' stranded in Libya and grandstand about 'freedom'. Expedient diplomacy at its best.

Where was the West when East Timor, Rwanda and southern Sudan were soaked in rivers of blood? No oil worth grabbing? Or does a revolution have to be fought on twitter and facebook to be legitimate


zandolie, southern sudan have plenty oil.

is de point yuh making dat de West is unprincipled and does double talk? ???

I'd hardly call less than 0.5% of the world oil reserves 'plenty oil'.

The point I was trying to make was the West will make noise about the universality of the quest for freedom and democracy but often appear selective of the political waves it chooses to support. Sometimes it seems to be driven by race, sometimes it seems to be driven by resources and other ecomomic interests. Its not precisely about unprincipled double talk, but about the criteria for choosing which social movement is supported outside of economic interests, e.g. race, ethnicity, religion, having lackeys already in place, combinations thereof. 

All manner of Western oil conglomerates, finance houses and compaines doing business with Ghaddfi and family in Libya for donkey years. But all of a sudden we pretend to be filled with righteous indignation like is only yesterday Ghaddifi started slaughtering people wholesale. The level of assinine hypocrisy and hysteria is the press is especially telling. I heard some jackass Canadian 'journalists' this morning are calling for Lionel Ritchie, Jay-Z, Beyonce, Usher and Mariah Carey to issue apologies for performing in Libya for 'blood money'

Funny they don't think it appropriate to ask the Canadian banking institutions that accepted literally billions of dollars of Ghaddfi's money to apologize as well. The Harper government is now patting themselves on the back for freezing 2.3 billion dollars of these Canadian assests last night.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 03:26:29 PM by ZANDOLIE »
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Offline pecan

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2011, 07:11:36 AM »
[

Not everybody can vote.

If I lived in America even if I was born there they wouldnt allow me to vote based on my age...That isnt any different from the authoritarian dictatorship Gadaffi has.

LOL ... if you ever decide to emigrate, remember not to chose USA or any other Western nation that doh allow you to vote because of your age. Libya, Iran, go for it.

Or are you just trolling?

Im in USA

and is it only trolling if I say something that you dont agree with my royal highness? :-\

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt ... thanks for the clarification. Maybe you should go to Wisconsin.

FYI: Google 'democratic index' if you want to get some sort of comparison between countries.

   1. Full democracies—scores of 8 to 10.
   2. Flawed democracies—scores of 6 to 7.9.
   3. Hybrid regimes—scores of 4 to 5.9.
   4. Authoritarian regimes—scores below 4.

Norway = 9.8
USA = 8.18
Trinidad and Tobago = 7.16
Libya = 1.94
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Offline pecan

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2011, 07:24:30 AM »

By strict definition it not imperialism, but the stance of some of these nations is hypocritical. The Canadian Prime minister is making a big noise about freezing Ghaddafi's assets in Canadian. But they had no problem doing business with Libya and accepting his money last month.

I would guess that he was not killing his own people in public, using imported mercenaries, last month. Unless you believe that Gaddafi has a right to kill his own people to maintain power then why shouldn't states exert political pressure to stop the bloodshed.

If there is any hypocrisy at play it is that Western nations are not showing enough current support to these freedom movements.


So a man remains in power for 40+ years with no sign of legitimate elections, sponsors terrorism around the world, ammasses a fortune of billions of dollars because he is a sweet and charming kinda guy.


I guess no repression ever occurred because nobody ever noticed before.

And when did killing yuh ‘own people’ suddenly become so morally superior to killing those who are not your ‘own people’?

Here is a dirty little well kept secret. Canada is one of the largest arms dealers in the world. They are especially adept at selling weapons to repressive third world regimes.  Some of them are being used right now in Libya to repress and kill Ghaddif’s ‘own people’. The Canadian Prime minister is very willing to leave his 'own people' stranded in Libya and grandstand about 'freedom'. Expedient diplomacy at its best.

Where was the West when East Timor, Rwanda and southern Sudan were soaked in rivers of blood? No oil worth grabbing? Or does a revolution have to be fought on twitter and facebook to be legitimate


zandolie, southern sudan have plenty oil.

is de point yuh making dat de West is unprincipled and does double talk? ???

I'd hardly call less than 0.5% of the world oil reserves 'plenty oil'.

The point I was trying to make was the West will make noise about the universality of the quest for freedom and democracy but often appear selective of the political waves it chooses to support. Sometimes it seems to be driven by race, sometimes it seems to be driven by resources and other ecomomic interests. Its not precisely about unprincipled double talk, but about the criteria for choosing which social movement is supported outside of economic interests, e.g. race, ethnicity, religion, having lackeys already in place, combinations thereof. 

All manner of Western oil conglomerates, finance houses and compaines doing business with Ghaddfi and family in Libya for donkey years. But all of a sudden we pretend to be filled with righteous indignation like is only yesterday Ghaddifi started slaughtering people wholesale. The level of assinine hypocrisy and hysteria is the press is especially telling. I heard some jackass Canadian 'journalists' this morning are calling for Lionel Ritchie, Jay-Z, Beyonce, Usher and Mariah Carey to issue apologies for performing in Libya for 'blood money'

Funny they don't think it appropriate to ask the Canadian banking institutions that accepted literally billions of dollars of Ghaddfi's money to apologize as well. The Harper government is now patting themselves on the back for freezing 2.3 billion dollars of these Canadian assests last night.

Zando, western hypocrisy is alive and well but not restricted to the Harper government or Canadian institutions. I know that you said 'Western' but to single out the Harper Government is not entirely fair. The liberals conveniently ignored Gaddafi when they were in power. At least better late than never.  Harper had no choice but to act publicly given recent public events.  The Liberals would have done the same thing if they were in power.

Btw: in 2010, Canada exported $246 million (vehicles, aircraft, machinery) and imported $24.6 million (chemicals) to/from Libya.  In contrast, the US exported $665 million but imported $2.1 billion (oil and energy). Trade often trumps human rights.



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Offline Dutty

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2011, 09:24:08 AM »
Ah think Zando just referencing harper and dem cause dais whey he livin,, plus he's ex military so he prolly have insight on dem ting....but all ah we know canada is a minnow, no!,, make dat baby wabeen at arms exports
Plus I keep reading that the vast majority of Ghaddafi small arms does come from south africa and big guns is german....not that it absolves anyone that sold to him and suddenly makes him this great pariah

On a side note to what zando mentioned I was reading Nelly Furtado givin the $1million she make from ghddafi son party to charity,,nice pr stunt....dem celebrities does real make serious bank for 'small' jobs oui

On a somewhat tangential note,,,despite her moustache I find Susan Rice is Mad Milf Material
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 09:29:58 AM by Dutty »
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Offline ribbit

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2011, 11:03:37 AM »

By strict definition it not imperialism, but the stance of some of these nations is hypocritical. The Canadian Prime minister is making a big noise about freezing Ghaddafi's assets in Canadian. But they had no problem doing business with Libya and accepting his money last month.

I would guess that he was not killing his own people in public, using imported mercenaries, last month. Unless you believe that Gaddafi has a right to kill his own people to maintain power then why shouldn't states exert political pressure to stop the bloodshed.

If there is any hypocrisy at play it is that Western nations are not showing enough current support to these freedom movements.


So a man remains in power for 40+ years with no sign of legitimate elections, sponsors terrorism around the world, ammasses a fortune of billions of dollars because he is a sweet and charming kinda guy.


I guess no repression ever occurred because nobody ever noticed before.

And when did killing yuh ‘own people’ suddenly become so morally superior to killing those who are not your ‘own people’?

Here is a dirty little well kept secret. Canada is one of the largest arms dealers in the world. They are especially adept at selling weapons to repressive third world regimes.  Some of them are being used right now in Libya to repress and kill Ghaddif’s ‘own people’. The Canadian Prime minister is very willing to leave his 'own people' stranded in Libya and grandstand about 'freedom'. Expedient diplomacy at its best.

Where was the West when East Timor, Rwanda and southern Sudan were soaked in rivers of blood? No oil worth grabbing? Or does a revolution have to be fought on twitter and facebook to be legitimate


zandolie, southern sudan have plenty oil.

is de point yuh making dat de West is unprincipled and does double talk? ???

I'd hardly call less than 0.5% of the world oil reserves 'plenty oil'.

The point I was trying to make was the West will make noise about the universality of the quest for freedom and democracy but often appear selective of the political waves it chooses to support. Sometimes it seems to be driven by race, sometimes it seems to be driven by resources and other ecomomic interests. Its not precisely about unprincipled double talk, but about the criteria for choosing which social movement is supported outside of economic interests, e.g. race, ethnicity, religion, having lackeys already in place, combinations thereof. 

All manner of Western oil conglomerates, finance houses and compaines doing business with Ghaddfi and family in Libya for donkey years. But all of a sudden we pretend to be filled with righteous indignation like is only yesterday Ghaddifi started slaughtering people wholesale. The level of assinine hypocrisy and hysteria is the press is especially telling. I heard some jackass Canadian 'journalists' this morning are calling for Lionel Ritchie, Jay-Z, Beyonce, Usher and Mariah Carey to issue apologies for performing in Libya for 'blood money'

Funny they don't think it appropriate to ask the Canadian banking institutions that accepted literally billions of dollars of Ghaddfi's money to apologize as well. The Harper government is now patting themselves on the back for freezing 2.3 billion dollars of these Canadian assests last night.

zando, i agree with your points about the "selectiveness" of Western support. however, i think the west's relationship with libya should be viewed over a longer period of time. after the lockerie bombing, there was a period of sanctions followed by a thaw when ghaddaffi took some responsibility. also, ghaddafi gave up a covert nuclear program that the west didn't even know about!! the potential for a constructive relationship with libya could have lead to alot for africa in general.

Offline Bakes

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2011, 12:05:27 PM »
All this handwringing about Western hypocrisy is kinda naive... in global diplomacy no situation is ever completely black and white.  At the height of the Cold War with the USSR the Soviets were still the biggest buyers of American wheat and despite chilly relations which Communist China, the US was always its biggest consumer market.  The US may hold firm to idealist notions to pacify certain domestic constituencies but reality often imposes a harsh restriction to rigorous adherence to any political dogma.  Politics, it is said, makes strange bedfellows... in global politics it's no different.

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2011, 12:41:15 PM »
All this handwringing about Western hypocrisy is kinda naive... in global diplomacy no situation is ever completely black and white.  At the height of the Cold War with the USSR the Soviets were still the biggest buyers of American wheat and despite chilly relations which Communist China, the US was always its biggest consumer market.  The US may hold firm to idealist notions to pacify certain domestic constituencies but reality often imposes a harsh restriction to rigorous adherence to any political dogma.  Politics, it is said, makes strange bedfellows... in global politics it's no different.

You are completely minimizing the role the U.S. has played in some human rights abuses around the world. Helping to overthrow democratically elected governments, assasinations, erecting dictators, aiding in the killing of civilians on behalf of U.S. corporations and so on and so on has been a widely weiled tool of U.S. foreign policy. Yes, there are harsh realities in the world of international politics and the United States, or the West for that matter, have not been the only powers that have acted unethically in global affairs.

However the specific long term support of Middle Eastern dictators to feed Western Oil demand is not just some 'mistake' or 'restriction' on the ability to act. It is an ongoing, institutionalized policy that has influenced the structure of global trade markets, fiscal policies, rise of religious fundamentalism. We all know that

I consume petrochemicals and derivatives just like anyone else living in the Western world. And obviously there is a massive profit to be made from their manufacture. But frankly its about time to come to grips with the fact that this addiction to oil has to come to an end. It won't change the human condition but something has to change. Remember all that lovely revolution in Iran 30 years ago did little more than create the first wave of massive middle eastern unrest.
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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2011, 12:47:58 PM »

You are completely minimizing the role the U.S. has played in some human rights abuses around the world. Helping to overthrow democratically elected governments, assasinations, erecting dictators, aiding in the killing of civilians on behalf of U.S. corporations and so on and so on has been a widely weiled tool of U.S. foreign policy. Yes, there are harsh realities in the world of international politics and the United States, or the West for that matter, have not been the only powers that have acted unethically in global affairs.

However the specific long term support of Middle Eastern dictators to feed Western Oil demand is not just some 'mistake' or 'restriction' on the ability to act. It is an ongoing, institutionalized policy that has influenced the structure of global trade markets, fiscal policies, rise of religious fundamentalism. We all know that

I consume petrochemicals and derivatives just like anyone else living in the Western world. And obviously there is a massive profit to be made from their manufacture. But frankly its about time to come to grips with the fact that this addiction to oil has to come to an end. It won't change the human condition but something has to change. Remember all that lovely revolution in Iran 30 years ago did little more than create the first wave of massive middle eastern unrest.


...and you are completely minimizing the role that non-petrochemical concerns play in driving US and to a lesser extent, Western foreign policy as it concerns the Middle East.  And no, I'm not talking about Israel either.

Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2011, 01:06:00 PM »

Zando, western hypocrisy is alive and well but not restricted to the Harper government or Canadian institutions. I know that you said 'Western' but to single out the Harper Government is not entirely fair. The liberals conveniently ignored Gaddafi when they were in power. At least better late than never.  Harper had no choice but to act publicly given recent public events.  The Liberals would have done the same thing if they were in power.

Btw: in 2010, Canada exported $246 million (vehicles, aircraft, machinery) and imported $24.6 million (chemicals) to/from Libya.  In contrast, the US exported $665 million but imported $2.1 billion (oil and energy). Trade often trumps human rights.



Yes placing blame along party lines is not fair. however my contention is that Harper himself stated that the reason for taking these actions was that the first priority of a government was 'the security and saftey of its citizens'. Yet he left all those Canadians, 'his own people', stranded in Libya forced to hitch a ride outta dey via other nations transport planes and ships. Some of them had to flee the country by their own hand. What kind of piece of sh*t leaves their own behind like that?

Now he sending JTF...obviously his FIRST priority is the protection of the assets of Suncorp, SNC and other Canadian companies operating in Libya, not the prorection of his citizens. I believe Talisman Energy is in there as well. I'm sure I don't have to tell you particular details about Talisman's long history of expoitation and violence, first as a spin-off of British Petroleum and then allegations by a Christian Church in Sudan that Talisman purchased arms used by Khartoum to commit genocide on the Southern Sudanese people.
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Offline ZANDOLIE

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2011, 01:07:17 PM »

You are completely minimizing the role the U.S. has played in some human rights abuses around the world. Helping to overthrow democratically elected governments, assasinations, erecting dictators, aiding in the killing of civilians on behalf of U.S. corporations and so on and so on has been a widely weiled tool of U.S. foreign policy. Yes, there are harsh realities in the world of international politics and the United States, or the West for that matter, have not been the only powers that have acted unethically in global affairs.

However the specific long term support of Middle Eastern dictators to feed Western Oil demand is not just some 'mistake' or 'restriction' on the ability to act. It is an ongoing, institutionalized policy that has influenced the structure of global trade markets, fiscal policies, rise of religious fundamentalism. We all know that

I consume petrochemicals and derivatives just like anyone else living in the Western world. And obviously there is a massive profit to be made from their manufacture. But frankly its about time to come to grips with the fact that this addiction to oil has to come to an end. It won't change the human condition but something has to change. Remember all that lovely revolution in Iran 30 years ago did little more than create the first wave of massive middle eastern unrest.


...and you are completely minimizing the role that non-petrochemical concerns play in driving US and to a lesser extent, Western foreign policy as it concerns the Middle East.  And no, I'm not talking about Israel either.

what are those concerns
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Offline Bakes

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Re: I dont understand....
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2011, 01:22:03 PM »

what are those concerns

Al Qaeda... and before that Islamic fundamentalism fomented by Iran... and before that the Soviet Union.  Not to mention Israel.  Need more?

... but of course, "oil" is the sexy topic.

 

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