Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Flex on April 17, 2008, 04:19:52 AM
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Ministry backs 'players'
...Association to get Government $$.
By: Lasana Liburd (Express).[/size]
Shaka Hislop, interim Football Players Association of Trinidad and Tobago (FPATT) president and 2006 World Cup standout, yesterday declared the local players' union an alternative vehicle for investment in football in Trinidad and Tobago as he revealed a new three-year deal with the Ministry of Sport and Youth Affairs.
Sport Ministry representative Dave Bobb as well as FPATT vice-president Clayton Morris, treasurer Leonson Lewis and communication and operations manager Debbie Maya McMillan, were also present at yesterday's press conference in the President's Box of the Queen's Park Oval.
Hislop did not give financial details--he claimed both parties still expected some changes to their budget--but said that FPATT's three unofficial watchwords were transparency, accountability and value for money.
"There won't be a guessing game as to where your money is spent," said Hislop, who now works as a soccer commentator with United States network, ESPN. "I can assure you of that."
Bobb, who apologised for the absence of Minister Gary Hunt, expressed satisfaction with FPATT's vision of addressing the concerns of professional footballers in Trinidad and Tobago.
"The Ministry recognises the importance of the effect being made by the Football Players Association," said Bobb, "to have a body to represent footballers, similar to what the West Indies Players Association is doing."
This will be a great move for football players and football in this country."
FIFA vice-president and Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) special advisor Jack Warner and T&TFF president Oliver Camps recently attacked the Sport Ministry and Hunt, in particular, for allegedly discriminating against football.
But Hislop applauded Hunt's supposed vision "to bring sport into the 21st century" and pointedly revealed that FPATT, unlike other local sporting bodies, had satisfied the Sport Ministry by providing the relevant documentation for funding. The documents offered included a three-year budget, constitution, registration and forecasts aimed at making FPATT self-sufficient within three years.
Hislop revealed that FPATT first approached Hunt for funding last December and maintained communication ever since.
FPATT became functional last June and, at present, has 65 members. Hislop expressed confidence that membership would "swell considerably" as the organisation, buoyed by their new financial partnership, spreads it wings.
Although FPATT is geared towards local professionals, at present, Hislop promised that it would eventually branch out and offer support for semi-professionals and women as well.
He stressed that, although independent of the T&TFF, FPATT hoped to work with the local governing body. But Hislop, who routinely represented his international colleagues as a player, warned of imminent changes to the way things are conducted at international level.
FPATT already made it clear that they intend to represent the "Soca Warriors" although Warner, thus far, has asked the T&TFF to ignore the fledgling body.
"We intend to take away the day-to-day worry of the professional player," said Hislop."I do not think it right for national players to sit down with the FIFA vice-president and the likes to discuss (match fees and related business) when there is a game in three days to worry about."
Hislop agreed that players should not expect to get "rich" from international duty but insisted they would expect fair compensation.
"It is an honour to represent your country and that is the main motivation," said the former England Premier League goalkeeper, "but this is also our livelihood (and) we are part of that money making machine and expect to be compensated for our role. We expect no more and no less."
The interim FPATT president also offered verbal support for national women's Olympic team coach Jamaal Shabazz and his players who were criticised by Warner, in a press conference held on their return, for failing to defeat Costa Rica.
"Players expect criticisms from fans," said Hislop. "But players expect support from their officials and, when that doesn't come, it is demoralizing to an individual and to a team." I was disappointed in (Warner's) comments and the forum in which they were made."
Hislop is one of 16 players whose case against the T&TFF, as regards 2006 World Cup bonus and sponsorship money, will be heard in London on April 28, 29 and 30.
However, he reiterated that the legal suit before the Sports Dispute Resolution Committee was not an initiative of FPATT, who are merely "keen observers."
FPATT signaled their intention to be much more pro-active in the local game over the next three years, though.
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"But Hislop applauded Hunt's supposed vision "to bring sport into the 21st century" and pointedly revealed that FPATT, unlike other local sporting bodies, had satisfied the Sport Ministry by providing the relevant documentation for funding. The documents offered included a three-year budget, constitution, registration and forecasts aimed at making FPATT self-sufficient within three years. "
Brilliant 1
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"The Ministry recognises the importance of the effect being made by the Football Players Association," said Bobb,
carefully chosen words.
I would like somebody to ask Jack why he thinks its best to ignore FPATT, why does he think its not a good idea for the players to be advised by such an organization.
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Jack says players should not get rich from fees fron international duty.
Sweet mother of irony.
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I am floored. This is tremendous news and whatever you think of the government this is a very commendable move by Messrs. Hunt and Co. In the short term it does not bode well for the relationship between FPATT and the TTFF, but small loss, it is readily apparent that kow towing and niceties weren't doing much either.
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I am wondering if ever has a player's association replaced a national sporting body/administration as the head of the sport in any given nation. It is something to research, I think FPATT has in effect replaced the TTFF by being funded by the national government. It means that players will have to join FPATT if they were not already aligned because who has the budget and the money to pay the players.
It is groundbreaking really, because I cannot recall this situation happening elsewhere from my knowledge, where the funds for the players are not streaming through the national sporting body, as TTFF represents itself as, instead all funding and also ultimate control of players salaries and stability is given to the players association. So Shaka kick JACK and holding trump, what will the TTFF and Jack Warner response or action be in regards to the action of the sporting ministry.
It leaves TTFF in a bind, simply because Hunt can simply say, all funds were allocated to the players association to fund the future of TT football, leaving TTFF to find its own funds privately. The question remains, will the budget of FPATT be large enough in 3 years to hire a coaching staff or will that be left to TTFF? Right now FPATT seems like a vehicle to compensate the players and TTFF will pay the coaching staff and fund ventures outside the player's union scope.
God is de BOSS....
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that will never happen
FIFA will support Jack all the way to the Bank ;)
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The monies given to FPATT (I believe) was a kind of "you want to see how I could give money to football" kinda thing from the Minister to JW. It shows that the government will give money to an organization if they can produce proper accounting and documents to support. Something we all know that the TTFF would not do.
that will never happen
FIFA will support Jack all the way to the Bank ;)
Hey WestCoast.....what if the TTFF had no players? How would FIFA recognize them then?
Also what if the governement started auditing every national organization representing T&T eg. Track and field, netball, cricket, swimmiing, etc, in a round about way to get to the TTFF/TTFA books? NO? ???
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Not likely to happen TI. As WestCoast said FIFA would always back the Football Federation which is TTFF over a players union. Also, even though the government has agreed to fund them, I'm sure they're not giving them enough funding pay the players. Probably just covering their expected operating expenses for 3 years so that they can get up and running, after which union dues will probably be expected to cover their expenses.
Gov't recognition does put the TTFF in the position however that they might be forced to recognize and deal with FPATT.
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I am wondering if ever has a player's association replaced a national sporting body/administration as the head of the sport in any given nation. It is something to research, I think FPATT has in effect replaced the TTFF by being funded by the national government. It means that players will have to join FPATT if they were not already aligned because who has the budget and the money to pay the players.
It is groundbreaking really, because I cannot recall this situation happening elsewhere from my knowledge, where the funds for the players are not streaming through the national sporting body, as TTFF represents itself as, instead all funding and also ultimate control of players salaries and stability is given to the players association. So Shaka kick JACK and holding trump, what will the TTFF and Jack Warner response or action be in regards to the action of the sporting ministry.
It leaves TTFF in a bind, simply because Hunt can simply say, all funds were allocated to the players association to fund the future of TT football, leaving TTFF to find its own funds privately. The question remains, will the budget of FPATT be large enough in 3 years to hire a coaching staff or will that be left to TTFF? Right now FPATT seems like a vehicle to compensate the players and TTFF will pay the coaching staff and fund ventures outside the player's union scope.
God is de BOSS....
You getting ahead of yuhself....the government never funded the TTFF to the extent you're suggesting.
The TTFF gets it's funding (what's left of it, after passing thru Jack's hands) from FIFA. Because the government and the TTFF (ostensibly) has the same goal of promoting the development of the sport on the youth level, Gov't will give the TTFF funds for that purpose, b/c no use trying to reinvent the wheel, if you already have a mechanism in place to serve that purpose (the TTFF), it is wiser to use that than to try and build your own program from scratch.
So by no means is FPATT supplanting the TTFF, nor can they, FIFA will never allow it...not in this manner.
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I am wondering if ever has a player's association replaced a national sporting body/administration as the head of the sport in any given nation. It is something to research, I think FPATT has in effect replaced the TTFF by being funded by the national government. It means that players will have to join FPATT if they were not already aligned because who has the budget and the money to pay the players.
It is groundbreaking really, because I cannot recall this situation happening elsewhere from my knowledge, where the funds for the players are not streaming through the national sporting body, as TTFF represents itself as, instead all funding and also ultimate control of players salaries and stability is given to the players association. So Shaka kick JACK and holding trump, what will the TTFF and Jack Warner response or action be in regards to the action of the sporting ministry.
It leaves TTFF in a bind, simply because Hunt can simply say, all funds were allocated to the players association to fund the future of TT football, leaving TTFF to find its own funds privately. The question remains, will the budget of FPATT be large enough in 3 years to hire a coaching staff or will that be left to TTFF? Right now FPATT seems like a vehicle to compensate the players and TTFF will pay the coaching staff and fund ventures outside the player's union scope.
God is de BOSS....
You getting ahead of yuhself....the government never funded the TTFF to the extent you're suggesting.
The TTFF gets it's funding (what's left of it, after passing thru Jack's hands) from FIFA. Because the government and the TTFF (ostensibly) has the same goal of promoting the development of the sport on the youth level, Gov't will give the TTFF funds for that purpose, b/c no use trying to reinvent the wheel, if you already have a mechanism in place to serve that purpose (the TTFF), it is wiser to use that than to try and build your own program from scratch.
So by no means is FPATT supplanting the TTFF, nor can they, FIFA will never allow it...not in this manner.
This is exactly what i thought,thanks Bakes for explaining this to some of these guys on here,you put it over a little better than i would.Well said.
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FPATT can very well be the vehicle to get rid of Warner and his cronies!
If all the players really coalesce and band together then TTFF can take their black lists to hell with them. Warner will be forced to deal honestly with the players and their representatives, and the vi kie vie way of doing business wil cease.
What Jack has been able to do for many years is cause great division in football, then parlay those divisions into great profit for himself and a select few. He took much with his left hand and gave back little with his right, and because he was under no legitmate scrutiny, made it appear that his right hand was the rescuer!
I am sure, much to Jack's chagrin, the current government administration has a plan to deal with him, in fact I believe that Jack has miscalculated the cunning of Mr. Hunt and his ministry.
If FPATT can muster the support of the majority of players throughout T&T, then they would have not only the impetus, but also the vehice to dislodge Ollie Camps. The new President can simply decline Mr. Warner's offer of serving as Special Advisor!
It will not be an easy task as Mr. warner and his cronies are well entrenched and have set up a system of footballing patronage whereby funds flow from the TTFF to select organizations and individuals. Those organizations and individuals have astranglehold on power at this time and for the foreseeable near future.
FPATT will have to engage the players and embark upon a campaign of education. FPATT will have to show the players that united they are the major stakeholders and they have the real power. Players will have to learn that through unity, better work conditions and benefits will be the norm and no longer will they have to look towards Jack for handouts in cases of accidents, hospitalizations, and no longer will they have to listen to broken promises or have to accept unaudited and unverifiable records of expenditures and profits!
How many members of the TTFF does it take to turn on a light bulb? No one will ever find out. Because cockroaches flee as soon as the light is turned on. If the players unite under the umbrella of FPATT, the lights will surely be on, and I can bet, Camps, Groden and Warner will flee into a dark hole!
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I am wondering if ever has a player's association replaced a national sporting body/administration as the head of the sport in any given nation. It is something to research, I think FPATT has in effect replaced the TTFF by being funded by the national government. It means that players will have to join FPATT if they were not already aligned because who has the budget and the money to pay the players.
It is groundbreaking really, because I cannot recall this situation happening elsewhere from my knowledge, where the funds for the players are not streaming through the national sporting body, as TTFF represents itself as, instead all funding and also ultimate control of players salaries and stability is given to the players association. So Shaka kick JACK and holding trump, what will the TTFF and Jack Warner response or action be in regards to the action of the sporting ministry.
It leaves TTFF in a bind, simply because Hunt can simply say, all funds were allocated to the players association to fund the future of TT football, leaving TTFF to find its own funds privately. The question remains, will the budget of FPATT be large enough in 3 years to hire a coaching staff or will that be left to TTFF? Right now FPATT seems like a vehicle to compensate the players and TTFF will pay the coaching staff and fund ventures outside the player's union scope.
God is de BOSS....
You getting ahead of yuhself....the government never funded the TTFF to the extent you're suggesting.
The TTFF gets it's funding (what's left of it, after passing thru Jack's hands) from FIFA. Because the government and the TTFF (ostensibly) has the same goal of promoting the development of the sport on the youth level, Gov't will give the TTFF funds for that purpose, b/c no use trying to reinvent the wheel, if you already have a mechanism in place to serve that purpose (the TTFF), it is wiser to use that than to try and build your own program from scratch.
So by no means is FPATT supplanting the TTFF, nor can they, FIFA will never allow it...not in this manner.
i understand your point of view, but if FPATT has the players under contract with the union, the players could strike and leave ttff in a bind, since FPATT is in charge of disbursement of their match fees and so forth, so if all players sign up with FPATT, the ttff have to negotiate with fpatt in order to get these players to play; since ttff has been associated with being unreliable to pay the players, players will look to a more reliable source, hence fpatt, being the most viable source for payment, reliability and trust go a long way.
God is de BOSS...
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well said TI
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FPATT can very well be the vehicle to get rid of Warner and his cronies!
If all the players really coalesce and band together then TTFF can take their black lists to hell with them. Warner will be forced to deal honestly with the players and their representatives, and the vi kie vie way of doing business wil cease.
What Jack has been able to do for many years is cause great division in football, then parlay those divisions into great profit for himself and a select few. He took much with his left hand and gave back little with his right, and because he was under no legitmate scrutiny, made it appear that his right hand was the rescuer!
I am sure, much to Jack's chagrin, the current government administration has a plan to deal with him, in fact I believe that Jack has miscalculated the cunning of Mr. Hunt and his ministry.
If FPATT can muster the support of the majority of players throughout T&T, then they would have not only the impetus, but also the vehice to dislodge Ollie Camps. The new President can simply decline Mr. Warner's offer of serving as Special Advisor!
It will not be an easy task as Mr. warner and his cronies are well entrenched and have set up a system of footballing patronage whereby funds flow from the TTFF to select organizations and individuals. Those organizations and individuals have astranglehold on power at this time and for the foreseeable near future.
FPATT will have to engage the players and embark upon a campaign of education. FPATT will have to show the players that united they are the major stakeholders and they have the real power. Players will have to learn that through unity, better work conditions and benefits will be the norm and no longer will they have to look towards Jack for handouts in cases of accidents, hospitalizations, and no longer will they have to listen to broken promises or have to accept unaudited and unverifiable records of expenditures and profits!
How many members of the TTFF does it take to turn on a light bulb? No one will ever find out. Because cockroaches flee as soon as the light is turned on. If the players unite under the umbrella of FPATT, the lights will surely be on, and I can bet, Camps, Groden and Warner will flee into a dark hole!
Saying that FPATT can be the vehicle to get rid of the individuals atop the TTFF...and saying that FPATT can be the vehicle to replace the entire TTFF organization altogether, are two completely and entirely different things.
Coops, mind you these are just my opinions eh, can't really tell you what actually is the case one way or another.
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i understand your point of view, but if FPATT has the players under contract with the union, the players could strike and leave ttff in a bind, since FPATT is in charge of disbursement of their match fees and so forth, so if all players sign up with FPATT, the ttff have to negotiate with fpatt in order to get these players to play; since ttff has been associated with being unreliable to pay the players, players will look to a more reliable source, hence fpatt, being the most viable source for payment, reliability and trust go a long way.
God is de BOSS...
There's so much that you're mixing up and misunderstanding. FPATT won't have any players under contract...FPATT is not an agency, acting as a sports agent would. FPATT won't be disbursing match fees either, since the players won't be working for FPATT...they work for the TTFF. FPATT will strive to negotiate with the TTFF on the issue of match fees, they are not paying these match fees. The players cannot look to FPATT as "the most viable source for payment".
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but yuh get he point doh? He might ah misspoke but he saying de TTFF will be forced to come clean
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I am wondering if ever has a player's association replaced a national sporting body/administration as the head of the sport in any given nation. It is something to research, I think FPATT has in effect replaced the TTFF by being funded by the national government. It means that players will have to join FPATT if they were not already aligned because who has the budget and the money to pay the players.
It is groundbreaking really, because I cannot recall this situation happening elsewhere from my knowledge, where the funds for the players are not streaming through the national sporting body, as TTFF represents itself as, instead all funding and also ultimate control of players salaries and stability is given to the players association. So Shaka kick JACK and holding trump, what will the TTFF and Jack Warner response or action be in regards to the action of the sporting ministry.
It leaves TTFF in a bind, simply because Hunt can simply say, all funds were allocated to the players association to fund the future of TT football, leaving TTFF to find its own funds privately. The question remains, will the budget of FPATT be large enough in 3 years to hire a coaching staff or will that be left to TTFF? Right now FPATT seems like a vehicle to compensate the players and TTFF will pay the coaching staff and fund ventures outside the player's union scope.
God is de BOSS....
You getting ahead of yuhself....the government never funded the TTFF to the extent you're suggesting.
The TTFF gets it's funding (what's left of it, after passing thru Jack's hands) from FIFA. Because the government and the TTFF (ostensibly) has the same goal of promoting the development of the sport on the youth level, Gov't will give the TTFF funds for that purpose, b/c no use trying to reinvent the wheel, if you already have a mechanism in place to serve that purpose (the TTFF), it is wiser to use that than to try and build your own program from scratch.
So by no means is FPATT supplanting the TTFF, nor can they, FIFA will never allow it...not in this manner.
i understand your point of view, but if FPATT has the players under contract with the union, the players could strike and leave ttff in a bind, since FPATT is in charge of disbursement of their match fees and so forth, so if all players sign up with FPATT, the ttff have to negotiate with fpatt in order to get these players to play; since ttff has been associated with being unreliable to pay the players, players will look to a more reliable source, hence fpatt, being the most viable source for payment, reliability and trust go a long way.
God is de BOSS...
TI i'm a bit confused with your statements,i think the money FPATT got is to run their organisation and not to pay players salaries etc etc may be i'm wrong.I can't understand how FPATT taking care of the players financially and the players playing under the TTFF,i think is FPATT have to negotiate with the TTFF and not the other way around,isn't TTFF the main body that represents FIFA here?are we having a national team of FPATT players?who they playing against?who have to sanction those games? not FIFA? i know i'm sounding silly but i'm just trying to make some sense of all this.
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but yuh get he point doh? He might ah misspoke but he saying de TTFF will be forced to come clean
TTFF will be forced to come clean with their dealings with the players...IF the players come on board and allow FPATT to speak as one voice in the negotiations. Anything else that comes from that, including new leadership in the TTFF is all gravy. But entirely premature and fantastic to think that FIFA will allow any new organization to just come un-certified and become the representative body for football in Trinidad.
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i understand your point of view, but if FPATT has the players under contract with the union, the players could strike and leave ttff in a bind, since FPATT is in charge of disbursement of their match fees and so forth, so if all players sign up with FPATT, the ttff have to negotiate with fpatt in order to get these players to play; since ttff has been associated with being unreliable to pay the players, players will look to a more reliable source, hence fpatt, being the most viable source for payment, reliability and trust go a long way.
God is de BOSS...
There's so much that you're mixing up and misunderstanding. FPATT won't have any players under contract...FPATT is not an agency, acting as a sports agent would. FPATT won't be disbursing match fees either, since the players won't be working for FPATT...they work for the TTFF. FPATT will strive to negotiate with the TTFF on the issue of match fees, they are not paying these match fees. The players cannot look to FPATT as "the most viable source for payment".
Between truetrini, bakes and now coops.. them really saying what ah feel TI come out to say, but get tie up with the details and wording
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TI i'm a bit confused with your statements,i think the money FPATT got is to run their organisation and not to pay players salaries etc etc may be i'm wrong.I can't understand how FPATT taking care of the players financially and the players playing under the TTFF,i think is FPATT have to negotiate with the TTFF and not the other way around,isn't TTFF the main body that represents FIFA here?are we having a national team of FPATT players?who they playing against?who have to sanction those games? not FIFA? i know i'm sounding silly but i'm just trying to make some sense of all this.
I doh think you sounding silly at all...this is exactly the situation as I see it as well.
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I am wondering if ever has a player's association replaced a national sporting body/administration as the head of the sport in any given nation. It is something to research, I think FPATT has in effect replaced the TTFF by being funded by the national government. It means that players will have to join FPATT if they were not already aligned because who has the budget and the money to pay the players.
It is groundbreaking really, because I cannot recall this situation happening elsewhere from my knowledge, where the funds for the players are not streaming through the national sporting body, as TTFF represents itself as, instead all funding and also ultimate control of players salaries and stability is given to the players association. So Shaka kick JACK and holding trump, what will the TTFF and Jack Warner response or action be in regards to the action of the sporting ministry.
It leaves TTFF in a bind, simply because Hunt can simply say, all funds were allocated to the players association to fund the future of TT football, leaving TTFF to find its own funds privately. The question remains, will the budget of FPATT be large enough in 3 years to hire a coaching staff or will that be left to TTFF? Right now FPATT seems like a vehicle to compensate the players and TTFF will pay the coaching staff and fund ventures outside the player's union scope.
God is de BOSS....
You getting ahead of yuhself....the government never funded the TTFF to the extent you're suggesting.
The TTFF gets it's funding (what's left of it, after passing thru Jack's hands) from FIFA. Because the government and the TTFF (ostensibly) has the same goal of promoting the development of the sport on the youth level, Gov't will give the TTFF funds for that purpose, b/c no use trying to reinvent the wheel, if you already have a mechanism in place to serve that purpose (the TTFF), it is wiser to use that than to try and build your own program from scratch.
So by no means is FPATT supplanting the TTFF, nor can they, FIFA will never allow it...not in this manner.
i understand your point of view, but if FPATT has the players under contract with the union, the players could strike and leave ttff in a bind, since FPATT is in charge of disbursement of their match fees and so forth, so if all players sign up with FPATT, the ttff have to negotiate with fpatt in order to get these players to play; since ttff has been associated with being unreliable to pay the players, players will look to a more reliable source, hence fpatt, being the most viable source for payment, reliability and trust go a long way.
God is de BOSS...
Problem is that FPATT is NOT in charge of disbursement of their match fees. They intend to be able to negotiate the players' match fees with TTFF but the money would still come from TTFF (probably with union dues going to FPATT). So the players can't look to FPATT as a reliable source of income for international matches.
They could strike but TTFF could just pick players of lesser quality who are non-FPATT members to play (the US Federation threatened that just before the Ash Wednesday WCQ in T&T). And if Gov't becomes too heavily involved there's always the possibility of a suspension by FIFA.
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Between truetrini, bakes and now coops.. them really saying what ah feel TI come out to say, but get tie up with the details and wording
I think it clear that all ah we want the same thing...but FPATT in ah bind b/c them is de new kid on the block, so nobody really know them and hardly know what they're here for. It could only work to their disadvantage to have misinformation regarding their purpose being bandied about. Players are already hesitant to get on board with them, I'd hate for information to get back to the players that FPATT will be paying them match fees, next thing you know they ask FPATT about this and FPATT say that not happening, next thing the players start looking at FPATT like they ent know what de ass they doing.
I'm no spokesperson for FPATT but I have a little understanding of what it is they're trying to do...I also probably have a little bit more to go on than most, so I'm just trying to clarify things a bit...everybody's opinions have the same weight however.
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FPATT can very well be the vehicle to get rid of Warner and his cronies!
If all the players really coalesce and band together then TTFF can take their black lists to hell with them. Warner will be forced to deal honestly with the players and their representatives, and the vi kie vie way of doing business wil cease.
What Jack has been able to do for many years is cause great division in football, then parlay those divisions into great profit for himself and a select few. He took much with his left hand and gave back little with his right, and because he was under no legitmate scrutiny, made it appear that his right hand was the rescuer!
I am sure, much to Jack's chagrin, the current government administration has a plan to deal with him, in fact I believe that Jack has miscalculated the cunning of Mr. Hunt and his ministry.
If FPATT can muster the support of the majority of players throughout T&T, then they would have not only the impetus, but also the vehice to dislodge Ollie Camps. The new President can simply decline Mr. Warner's offer of serving as Special Advisor!
It will not be an easy task as Mr. warner and his cronies are well entrenched and have set up a system of footballing patronage whereby funds flow from the TTFF to select organizations and individuals. Those organizations and individuals have astranglehold on power at this time and for the foreseeable near future.
FPATT will have to engage the players and embark upon a campaign of education. FPATT will have to show the players that united they are the major stakeholders and they have the real power. Players will have to learn that through unity, better work conditions and benefits will be the norm and no longer will they have to look towards Jack for handouts in cases of accidents, hospitalizations, and no longer will they have to listen to broken promises or have to accept unaudited and unverifiable records of expenditures and profits!
How many members of the TTFF does it take to turn on a light bulb? No one will ever find out. Because cockroaches flee as soon as the light is turned on. If the players unite under the umbrella of FPATT, the lights will surely be on, and I can bet, Camps, Groden and Warner will flee into a dark hole!
The monies given to FPATT (I believe) was a kind of "you want to see how I could give money to football" kinda thing from the Minister to JW. It shows that the government will give money to an organization if they can produce proper accounting and documents to support. Something we all know that the TTFF would not do.
that will never happen
FIFA will support Jack all the way to the Bank ;)
Hey WestCoast.....what if the TTFF had no players? How would FIFA recognize them then?
Also what if the governement started auditing every national organization representing T&T eg. Track and field, netball, cricket, swimmiing, etc, in a round about way to get to the TTFF/TTFA books? NO? ???
truetrini is the same question I asking. If the TTFF/TTFA cannot get any players to play for them how will they operate? FIFA will have to come good to recognize a country who don't have a football team. They may try to fight the new representatives but they can only deny so much.
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I am wondering if ever has a player's association replaced a national sporting body/administration as the head of the sport in any given nation. It is something to research, I think FPATT has in effect replaced the TTFF by being funded by the national government. It means that players will have to join FPATT if they were not already aligned because who has the budget and the money to pay the players.
It is groundbreaking really, because I cannot recall this situation happening elsewhere from my knowledge, where the funds for the players are not streaming through the national sporting body, as TTFF represents itself as, instead all funding and also ultimate control of players salaries and stability is given to the players association. So Shaka kick JACK and holding trump, what will the TTFF and Jack Warner response or action be in regards to the action of the sporting ministry.
It leaves TTFF in a bind, simply because Hunt can simply say, all funds were allocated to the players association to fund the future of TT football, leaving TTFF to find its own funds privately. The question remains, will the budget of FPATT be large enough in 3 years to hire a coaching staff or will that be left to TTFF? Right now FPATT seems like a vehicle to compensate the players and TTFF will pay the coaching staff and fund ventures outside the player's union scope.
God is de BOSS....
You getting ahead of yuhself....the government never funded the TTFF to the extent you're suggesting.
The TTFF gets it's funding (what's left of it, after passing thru Jack's hands) from FIFA. Because the government and the TTFF (ostensibly) has the same goal of promoting the development of the sport on the youth level, Gov't will give the TTFF funds for that purpose, b/c no use trying to reinvent the wheel, if you already have a mechanism in place to serve that purpose (the TTFF), it is wiser to use that than to try and build your own program from scratch.
So by no means is FPATT supplanting the TTFF, nor can they, FIFA will never allow it...not in this manner.
i understand your point of view, but if FPATT has the players under contract with the union, the players could strike and leave ttff in a bind, since FPATT is in charge of disbursement of their match fees and so forth, so if all players sign up with FPATT, the ttff have to negotiate with fpatt in order to get these players to play; since ttff has been associated with being unreliable to pay the players, players will look to a more reliable source, hence fpatt, being the most viable source for payment, reliability and trust go a long way.
God is de BOSS...
TI i'm a bit confused with your statements,i think the money FPATT got is to run their organisation and not to pay players salaries etc etc may be i'm wrong.I can't understand how FPATT taking care of the players financially and the players playing under the TTFF,i think is FPATT have to negotiate with the TTFF and not the other way around,isn't TTFF the main body that represents FIFA here?are we having a national team of FPATT players?who they playing against?who have to sanction those games? not FIFA? i know i'm sounding silly but i'm just trying to make some sense of all this.
"We intend to take away the day-to-day worry of the professional player," said Hislop."I do not think it right for national players to sit down with the FIFA vice-president and the likes to discuss (match fees and related business) when there is a game in three days to worry about."
Hislop agreed that players should not expect to get "rich" from international duty but insisted they would expect fair compensation.
fpatt will assure the players their match fees via negotiation or actually paying them, they are cating like any union would act, you pay your dues and your guaranteed fair representation and a salary, if ttff doesnt come up with the salary, fpatt withdraws their players, hence a strike, eventually and i think i was getting ahead of myself, a fully self sufficient players union can develop into a national body for sport, with the funds and proper management, i jumped a lil far ahead in thinking, but essentially in any contract with a union if your not paid your wages, someone must compensate in a case of plea bargaining or mediation until your paid and the dispute is over, this is where fpatt comes in, they guarantee wages and have the budget to support players in the short term, from what i know and have learned from unionized bodies.
God is de BOSS...
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Ministry backs 'players'
...Association to get Government $$.
By: Lasana Liburd (Express).[/size]
Shaka Hislop, interim Football Players Association of Trinidad and Tobago (FPATT) president and 2006 World Cup standout, yesterday declared the local players' union an alternative vehicle for investment in football in Trinidad and Tobago as he revealed a new three-year deal with the Ministry of Sport and Youth Affairs.
Sport Ministry representative Dave Bobb as well as FPATT vice-president Clayton Morris, treasurer Leonson Lewis and communication and operations manager Debbie Maya McMillan, were also present at yesterday's press conference in the President's Box of the Queen's Park Oval.
Hislop did not give financial details--he claimed both parties still expected some changes to their budget--but said that FPATT's three unofficial watchwords were transparency, accountability and value for money.
"There won't be a guessing game as to where your money is spent," said Hislop, who now works as a soccer commentator with United States network, ESPN. "I can assure you of that."
Bobb, who apologised for the absence of Minister Gary Hunt, expressed satisfaction with FPATT's vision of addressing the concerns of professional footballers in Trinidad and Tobago.
"The Ministry recognises the importance of the effect being made by the Football Players Association," said Bobb, "to have a body to represent footballers, similar to what the West Indies Players Association is doing."
This will be a great move for football players and football in this country."
FIFA vice-president and Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) special advisor Jack Warner and T&TFF president Oliver Camps recently attacked the Sport Ministry and Hunt, in particular, for allegedly discriminating against football.
But Hislop applauded Hunt's supposed vision "to bring sport into the 21st century" and pointedly revealed that FPATT, unlike other local sporting bodies, had satisfied the Sport Ministry by providing the relevant documentation for funding. The documents offered included a three-year budget, constitution, registration and forecasts aimed at making FPATT self-sufficient within three years.
Hislop revealed that FPATT first approached Hunt for funding last December and maintained communication ever since.
FPATT became functional last June and, at present, has 65 members. Hislop expressed confidence that membership would "swell considerably" as the organisation, buoyed by their new financial partnership, spreads it wings.
Although FPATT is geared towards local professionals, at present, Hislop promised that it would eventually branch out and offer support for semi-professionals and women as well.
He stressed that, although independent of the T&TFF, FPATT hoped to work with the local governing body. But Hislop, who routinely represented his international colleagues as a player, warned of imminent changes to the way things are conducted at international level.
FPATT already made it clear that they intend to represent the "Soca Warriors" although Warner, thus far, has asked the T&TFF to ignore the fledgling body.
"We intend to take away the day-to-day worry of the professional player," said Hislop."I do not think it right for national players to sit down with the FIFA vice-president and the likes to discuss (match fees and related business) when there is a game in three days to worry about."
Hislop agreed that players should not expect to get "rich" from international duty but insisted they would expect fair compensation.
"It is an honour to represent your country and that is the main motivation," said the former England Premier League goalkeeper, "but this is also our livelihood (and) we are part of that money making machine and expect to be compensated for our role. We expect no more and no less."
The interim FPATT president also offered verbal support for national women's Olympic team coach Jamaal Shabazz and his players who were criticised by Warner, in a press conference held on their return, for failing to defeat Costa Rica.
"Players expect criticisms from fans," said Hislop. "But players expect support from their officials and, when that doesn't come, it is demoralizing to an individual and to a team." I was disappointed in (Warner's) comments and the forum in which they were made."
Hislop is one of 16 players whose case against the T&TFF, as regards 2006 World Cup bonus and sponsorship money, will be heard in London on April 28, 29 and 30.
However, he reiterated that the legal suit before the Sports Dispute Resolution Committee was not an initiative of FPATT, who are merely "keen observers."
FPATT signaled their intention to be much more pro-active in the local game over the next three years, though.
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truetrini is the same question I asking. If the TTFF/TTFA cannot get any players to play for them how will they operate? FIFA will have to come good to recognize a country who don't have a football team. They may try to fight the new representatives but they can only deny so much.
Elan yuh see what Mose say about scab players?
fpatt will assure the players their match fees via negotiation or actually paying them, they are cating like any union would act, you pay your dues and your guaranteed fair representation and a salary, if ttff doesnt come up with the salary, fpatt withdraws their players, hence a strike, eventually and i think i was getting ahead of myself, a fully self sufficient players union can develop into a national body for sport, with the funds and proper management, i jumped a lil far ahead in thinking, but essentially in any contract with a union if your not paid your wages, someone must compensate in a case of plea bargaining or mediation until your paid and the dispute is over, this is where fpatt comes in, they guarantee wages and have the budget to support players in the short term, from what i know and have learned from unionized bodies.
God is de BOSS...
Fella, I dunno what to say to you again nah. Unions do NOT pay salaries. When a workers union goes on strike the membership gets a stipend to take the place of lost salaries. Unions do NOT guarantee wages. The players who will be members of FPATT are not salaried employees, so FPATT will not be paying them any money. If you insist that a players union can become the representative body for the sport then I can just laugh and wish you the best...because nowhere in history has organized labor replaced management. FIFA will never stand for it, even a hundred years after Jack dead and gone, because that will set an extremely bad precedent in other parts of the world.
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Right...the time is getting better for "THE REVOLOUTION"
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fpatt will assure the players their match fees via negotiation or actually paying them, they are cating like any union would act, you pay your dues and your guaranteed fair representation and a salary, if ttff doesnt come up with the salary, fpatt withdraws their players, hence a strike, eventually and i think i was getting ahead of myself, a fully self sufficient players union can develop into a national body for sport, with the funds and proper management, i jumped a lil far ahead in thinking, but essentially in any contract with a union if your not paid your wages, someone must compensate in a case of plea bargaining or mediation until your paid and the dispute is over, this is where fpatt comes in, they guarantee wages and have the budget to support players in the short term, from what i know and have learned from unionized bodies.
God is de BOSS...
Fella, I dunno what to say to you again nah. Unions do NOT pay salaries. When a workers union goes on strike the membership gets a stipend to take the place of lost salaries. Unions do NOT guarantee wages. The players who will be members of FPATT are not salaried employees, so FPATT will not be paying them any money. If you insist that a players union can become the representative body for the sport then I can just laugh and wish you the best...because nowhere in history has organized labor replaced management. FIFA will never stand for it, even a hundred years after Jack dead and gone, because that will set an extremely bad precedent in other parts of the world.
Thank you Bakes for saying it. It was obvious that there was a misunderstanding as to what a UNION actually does. As far as I can see FPATT cannot replace TTFF as the administrative body. One organisation cannot double as both the federation and the player's representatives at the same time. All FPATT really doing is just making sure the players are fairly treated and compensated.
What they can do is force TTFF to come clean with all its dealings, which could eventually get rid of the heads at the TTFF. They can be the catalyst for change, which i know we all hoping for :beermug:
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Thank you Bakes for saying it. It was obvious that there was a misunderstanding as to what a UNION actually does. As far as I can see FPATT cannot replace TTFF as the administrative body. One organisation cannot double as both the federation and the player's representatives at the same time. All FPATT really doing is just making sure the players are fairly treated and compensated.
What they can do is force TTFF to come clean with all its dealings, which could eventually get rid of the heads at the TTFF. They can be the catalyst for change, which i know we all hoping for :beermug:
Yeah, I'm not trying to come off as some kind of know-it-all or like I have all the answers, but with the little bit of insight that I do have and an understanding of what's currently taking place behind the scenes...this is how I see it as well.
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The money the Gov't is supposedly giving FPATT is to maintain the organization in the interim. The unions due and sponsorship money that FPATT hopefully will be getting in the future will be to help with players expenses. I don't see FPATT taking over the organization.
All players going on strike is doubtful. Joe Public players will not. Jack will be more than glad to use the entire JP team as the national team.
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TI I think you neglecting the whole "fifa approved dates", "fifa sanctioned match" fifa rankings etc part of the whoile deal which we know jack buy the rights for. ;)
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Shaka = the Jesus of trini football
Warner = Ceaser and the roman empire
Soon, and very soon, all Shaka's hard work and sacrificises will win the hearts of the people. good or evil :devil:
I like all the quote and the responses all yuh fellas have
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The revolution would not be televised . Jack ah shure yuh din see dah one commin ? stay tuned for the nex episode your move .
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The revolution would not be televised . Jack ah shure yuh din see dah one commin ? stay tuned for the nex episode your move .
Hunt has set a new tradition for all Ministers of Sports to follow, that only if the UNC dont get to power. Imagine the UNC wins and Jack gets to be a minister. Omg we will have two Fidel Castros in the caribbean
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WIPA does get funding so it is only by extension dat FPATT get some money and we sure it eh go have no creative accounting wit d figures
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Thank you Bakes for saying it. It was obvious that there was a misunderstanding as to what a UNION actually does. As far as I can see FPATT cannot replace TTFF as the administrative body. One organisation cannot double as both the federation and the player's representatives at the same time. All FPATT really doing is just making sure the players are fairly treated and compensated.
What they can do is force TTFF to come clean with all its dealings, which could eventually get rid of the heads at the TTFF. They can be the catalyst for change, which i know we all hoping for :beermug:
Yeah, I'm not trying to come off as some kind of know-it-all or like I have all the answers, but with the little bit of insight that I do have and an understanding of what's currently taking place behind the scenes...this is how I see it as well.
I come in late on this thread, but yeah Bakes, yuh have it down pat in your explanations.
There may be times when both the TTFF and FPATT's objectives may clash, or rather I should say that they may have the same objectives in mind, for instance they may both get involved in trying to secure scholarships/contracts for players, for raising funds for particular benefits/players/ex-players etc. FPATT may choose to get involved in player development programs etc., just like the TTFF (sic).
Generally a union is to represent its members' by securing proper benefits and working conditions. Salaries are not paid by the unions, only by the employers. Most likely FPATT would secure funding from dues, negotiations, sponsorships and fundraising ventures.
Mind you, I would like to think that FPATT should adopt an approach of working WITH the TTFF at this stage rather than to take an antagonistic approach from the onset. That would just hamper the relations and inevitably affect the players down the road.
Dinanath Ramnarine have a good few lessons learnt from his antagonistic approach with the WICB. Now they give him a spot on the Board and yuh doh hear squeak from him on any of the controversial issues now.
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I come in late on this thread, but yeah Bakes, yuh have it down pat in your explanations.
There may be times when both the TTFF and FPATT's objectives may clash, or rather I should say that they may have the same objectives in mind, for instance they may both get involved in trying to secure scholarships/contracts for players, for raising funds for particular benefits/players/ex-players etc. FPATT may choose to get involved in player development programs etc., just like the TTFF (sic).
Generally a union is to represent its members' by securing proper benefits and working conditions. Salaries are not paid by the unions, only by the employers. Most likely FPATT would secure funding from dues, negotiations, sponsorships and fundraising ventures.
Mind you, I would like to think that FPATT should adopt an approach of working WITH the TTFF at this stage rather than to take an antagonistic approach from the onset. That would just hamper the relations and inevitably affect the players down the road.
Dinanath Ramnarine have a good few lessons learnt from his antagonistic approach with the WICB. Now they give him a spot on the Board and yuh doh hear squeak from him on any of the controversial issues now.
Pardners I agree and I think if you ask Shaka he'll tell you that he as well agree. They've been trying to work with the TTFF, despite the fact that they got off on the wrong foot with the WC bonus dispute. But it's hard to work with someone that don't even want to acknowledge that you exist. It's really frustrating watching this from the outside, so I can only imagine what it must be like for the guys on the inside.
FPATT and the TTFF don't necessarily have to be on opposite sides on this issue, FPATT can represent the players and have a totally smooth and uncomplicated relationship with the TTFF at the same time. There may be a number of reasons why we are seeing the present impasse between the two organizations, but from my outsider's perspective these are the two that immediately come to mind:
1. A personal disagreement between Shaka Hislop and Jack Warner. This may be unfair to Shaka to characterize it as such, b/c I honestly don't believe that for him it's anything personal, but certainly for Jack I believe that he personally dislikes the fact that it's Shaka leading this charge. This I believe stems from (according to what I've read on the forum here) long-standing beef between Jack and Shaka's dad. So now that this uppity 'little boy' (probably how Jack sees Shaka), this man's son is trying to force him to negotiate, that's something that he cant' stomach.
2. Jack and the TTFF's recalcitrance to do thing any other way than how they've always done it. They've been doing things their way for the longest while and have had no reason to change. Now all of a sudden these players taste a little bit of success and now they're trying to upset the apple cart...acting bigger than their britches.
Hopefully I'm wrong that the gulf is much narrower than I imagine and we can all put this behind us sooner rather than later, but it all remains to be seen.
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I agree with you totally. Yuh hit the nail on the head Bakes.
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Good Evening Guys,
I don't see any smooth relationship between TTFF and FPATT. If Jack suddenly changes his mind, bet you "he playing dead to catch corbeau alive".
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Good Evening Guys,
I don't see any smooth relationship between TTFF and FPATT. If Jack suddenly changes his mind, bet you "he playing dead to catch corbeau alive".
Lol...yeah true dat