Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Trini _2026 on April 29, 2008, 05:16:51 AM
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Warriors battle for million $.
By: Francis Joseph (Guardian).
The Battle by 16 members of the historic 2006 Soca Warriors team to get millions of dollars in commercial profits from the T&T Football Federation (T&TFF) began before an arbitrator in London yesterday.
Three days have been put aside by the arbitrator, Ian Mill QC, but after yesterday’s all-day session, it seems that the arbitration hearing could last longer.
Defender Brent Sancho was the only member of the Warriors team to go into the witness box and be cross-examined by attorneys representing the T&TFF.
The hearing was held at the London headquarters of the Sports Dispute Resolution Panel before arbitrator Mill and several attorneys representing the players and the T&TFF. English attorney Allan Butler and Mike Townley are appearing for the Warriors, while Trinidadian lawyers Om Lalla and Kelvin Ramkissoon are representing the T&TFF.
Lawyers for the Warriors presented their case during the opening session. When their case was put to the arbitrator, Sancho was called to the stand. He was later cross-examined by T&TFF’s lawyers in the presence of two other team members—goalkeepers Shaka Hislop and Kelvin Jack.
Hearing ended at 4.30 pm, (11.30 am TT Time) and would resume today with striker Stern John and others expected to be tested in the witness box. Both parties are bound by secrecy, according to the rules of the arbitrator. There were two arbitration hearings—the last being on February 20 at Blackstone Chambers in London.
Sixteen players are involved in the dispute—Marvin Andrews, Christopher Birchall, Atiba Charles, Cyd Gray, Ian Cox, Cornell Glen, Hislop, Avery John, Stern John, Kenwyne Jones, Jack, Collin Samuel, Sancho, Aurtis Whitley, Evans Wise, and Anthony Wolfe. Whitley is not in London, having just led T&T to a 2-0 victory over Grenada on Sunday at the Marvin Lee Stadium.
The impasse started in the Port-of-Spain High Court last year, but the TTFF took the preliminary point that this matter was not suitable for litigation. The Federation asked for the matter to be stayed and to be resolved by an arbitrator. The arbitration proceedings were then filed in London on October 4, 2007.
The players are seeking 50 per cent share of the commercial profits received by the T&TFF during the Soca Warriors’ historic appearance at the World Cup Finals in Germany in 2006. The players claim there was an agreement with the T&TFF.
But the Federation is disputing the claim. The only agreement which exists, according to the T&TFF, was the one which it agreed to pay the players, and which was honoured.
The players contended that after T&T defeated Bahrain 2-1 on aggregate in 2005 to qualify for the World Cup Finals, the T&TFF received US $5.6 million from the governing body, Fifa.
As a result, the players argue that there was an inevitable commercial spin, in that sponsors paid large sums of money to be associated with any of the teams reaching the finals.
Stern, Shaka, Kelvin testify in London.
By: Francis Joseph (Guardian).[/color]
Soca Warriors vs TTFF Impasse
Three of this country’s top footballers took the witness stand yesterday at an arbitration hearing in London in the million-dollar dispute between the Soca Warriors and the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF).
Goalkeepers Shaka Hislop and Kelvin Jack, along with striker Stern John were tendered for cross-examination before arbitrator Ian Mill QC.
Their testimony followed the evidence given on Monday by defender Brent Sancho. Hislop, Jack, John, and Sancho, were among the 16 members of the Soca Warriors team that played at the FIFA 2006 World Cup and eventually took the T&TFF to court over an outstanding money dispute.
In the dispute, the players are contending that they are owed 50 percent of all commercial profits derived from the World Cup campaign in Germany in 2006.
The cross-examination of Hislop, Jack, and John lasted all day, but the details of the testimony must be kept confidential, according to the guidelines laid down by the arbitrator.
The case for the Soca Warriors was closed yesterday after the testimony of the players. But unlike normal criminal and civil cases under the English legal system, the T&TFF does not plan to call any witnesses or tender evidence on its behalf.
Neither the President (Oliver Camps) or secretary (Richard Groden) of the T&TFF, nor Jack Warner, FIFA vice-president and special advisor to the TTFF, would be called before the arbitrator.
The T&T Guardian was reliably informed that the onus is on the players, not the T&TFF to prove the case.
Today, the final day of arbitration, will see both sides making closing submissions to the arbitrator. Most will be in writing and lawyers on both sides will be expanding their cases orally. At the end of the day, the arbitrator will announce when he intends to deliver his ruling.
The hearing was held at the London headquarters of the Sports Dispute Resolution Panel before arbitrator Mill and several attorneys representing the players and the T&TFF.
English attorney Rupert Butler and Mike Townley are appearing for the Warriors, while Trinidadian lawyers Om Lalla and Kelvin Ramkissoon, along with Englishman William Mc Commick, are representing the T&TFF.
Sixteen players are involved in the dispute—Marvin Andrews, Christopher Birchall, Atiba Charles, Cyd Gray, Ian Cox, Cornell Glen, Shaka Hislop, Avery John, Stern John, Kenwyne Jones, Kelvin Jack, Collin Samuel, Brent Sancho, Aurtis Whitley, Evans Wise, and Anthony Wolfe.
The impasse started in the Port-of-Spain High Court last year, but the T&TFF took the preliminary point that this matter was not suitable for litigation. The Federation asked for the matter to be stayed and to be resolved by an arbitrator. The arbitration proceedings were then filed in London on October 4, 2007.
The players are seeking 50 per cent share of the commercial profits received by the T&TFF during the Soca Warriors’ historic appearance at the World Cup Finals in Germany in 2006. The players claim there was an agreement with the T&TFF.
But the Federation is disputing the claim. The only agreement which exists, according to the T&TFF, was the one which it agreed to pay the players, and which was honoured.
The players contended that after Trinidad and Tobago defeated Bahrain 2-1 on aggregate in 2005 to qualify for the World Cup Finals, the T&TFF received US $5.6 million from the governing body, FIFA. As a result, the players argue that there was an inevitable commercial spin, in that sponsors paid large sums of money to be associated with any of the teams reaching the finals.
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"Whitley is not in London, having just led T&T to a 2-0 victory over Grenada on Sunday at the Marvin Lee Stadium." Like Whitley on the fence now. Wasn't he tje captain on Sunday?
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They never said that the other players were in London. Only jack and Shaka were present at Sancho's testimony.
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"Whitley is not in London, having just led T&T to a 2-0 victory over Grenada on Sunday at the Marvin Lee Stadium." Like Whitley on the fence now. Wasn't he tje captain on Sunday?
And you got this feeling from where? lol
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Soca Warriors, T&TFF face off in London
Trinidad Express
Tuesday, April 29th 2008
Legal representatives for the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) and 16 2006 World Cup players faced off yesterday in London as arbitration began before the Sport Dispute Resolution Panel aimed at resolving their financial dispute regarding World Cup bonuses.
The hearing, which will be supervised by arbitrator and English Queen's Counsel Ian Mill, seeks to determine whether there is a binding contract between the two parties and what revenue falls under its purview. Both parties will also make legal presentations today and tomorrow.
The 16 Soca Warriors involved are Shaka Hislop, Kelvin Jack, Cyd Gray, Marvin Andrews, Brent Sancho, Ian Cox, Atiba Charles, Avery John, Chris Birchall, Aurtis Whitley, Collin Samuel, Evans Wise, Anthony Wolfe, Kenwyne Jones, Cornell Glen and Stern John.
FIFA vice-president and T&TFF special advisor Jack Warner drew up the World Cup pact in early 2006 after a meeting with the national football players. However, the players refused to accept the T&TFF's report in September 2006, which claimed that the local body made $18,255,952 from the Germany tournament and pocketed just $950,403.49 after expenses.
The Trinidad and Tobago government, in accordance with the Freedom of Information Act, revealed last August that the T&TFF's World Cup income was in excess of $173 million.
The Sport Dispute Resolution Panel will not debate figures in the present hearing but only seeks to establish the validity of the players' claim to the T&TFF's World Cup bounty.
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Soca Warriors, T&TFF face off in London
Trinidad Express
The Sport Dispute Resolution Panel will not debate figures in the present hearing but only seeks to establish the validity of the players' claim to the T&TFF's World Cup bounty.
Ah know ah would have read this before, but it now dawn on mih dat ah need to clarify what exactly is expected to come out of this arbitration. They not going to debate the figures but they going to say definitively whether or not de players should get any money? Ah interpret dat right??
Then if they say yes the players are entitled to money how is the amount going to be determined, a private meeting with de TTFF (that hasn't worked) or via another hearing before the Dispute resolution panel or how??
Anybody could help mih out here??... ???
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Soca Warriors, T&TFF face off in London
Trinidad Express
The Sport Dispute Resolution Panel will not debate figures in the present hearing but only seeks to establish the validity of the players' claim to the T&TFF's World Cup bounty.
Ah know ah would have read this before, but it now dawn on mih dat ah need to clarify what exactly is expected to come out of this arbitration. They not going to debate the figures but they going to say definitively whether or not de players should get any money? Ah interpret dat right??
Then if they say yes the players are entitled to money how is the amount going to be determined, a private meeting with de TTFF (that hasn't worked) or via another hearing before the Dispute resolution panel or how??
Anybody could help mih out here??... ???
First part is right...they will determine whether any money is owed. Then if so...how much will be determined at a later date.
I'm not sure as to why the two-part process, but my uneducated guess is that the TTFF are so reticent to open up their books to scrutiny that they will do so only when they feel it is absolutely necessary...that is after a determination has been made as to the merits of the players claim. Once that has been determined, again my guess...is that the two parties will sit down and try to resolve the issue once more, that failing (as it's sure to do) then it's either another round of either arbitration or litigation.
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Is it that ALL the players had to go on was Jack's word to give them 50%....said in the dressing room after the Sweden game ?
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Is it that ALL the players had to go on was Jack's word to give them 50%....said in the dressing room after the Sweden game ?
Jack has admitted the same in the press at later dates, so I don't know why that is in dispute. Maybe they are nailing down exactly 50% of what sources of revenue.
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UK-based forumites, is this in the UK press at all?
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camps didn't give them the money and they give it to charity already? or that was rumours earlier this year when they officially 'lift' the blacklist/
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Is it that ALL the players had to go on was Jack's word to give them 50%....said in the dressing room after the Sweden game ?
That is ALL that they needed... an oral promise can be binding.
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camps didn't give them the money and they give it to charity already? or that was rumours earlier this year when they officially 'lift' the blacklist/
That is the FIFA bonus for participation in the World Cup...different from Jack's promise of an additional bonus for their performance at the World Cup.
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Francis Joseph get da article in d Guardian JW author on levae have 2 b. Since he did not stummer and admitted is 50 % is 50%. Is a real mute point because d money dey get eh even 5% far less 50. Is a long road but is a road dat needs 2 b walked by d 16 real warriors. I just hope d other 7 when de get d money repay their portion of d legal fees.
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Thanks Bakes....oh lord it's just as I feared, after these three days depending on de outcome de players have more to endure before dey get dey money.....*sigh*
Doh give up fellas!!!...doh give up!!!.... :praying: :praying: :praying:
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http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_sports?id=161316795
Warriors' World Cup bonus judgment expected today
Lasana Liburd
Wednesday, April 30th 2008
There could be a judgment on the 2006 World Cup bonus dispute between the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) and 16 "Soca Warriors" as early as this afternoon as arbitrator, Ian Mill QC, hears the closing arguments in London.
Only complex summarising could delay a judgment as, sources suggested, Mill appears likely to bring the case to its conclusion earlier than initially expected.
The 16 World Cup players and the T&TFF allegedly agreed to split 50 per cent of all income accrued from the team's participation in the FIFA showcase tournament. However, the players contested the validity of the T&TFF's accounting and their decision to deduct expenses before offering payment.
Mill will decide, based on arbitration hearings on Monday, yesterday and today, whether the players have a legitimate claim for financial renumeration from the T&TFF. If he rules in favour of the players, it is likely that independent auditors will be summoned to confirm the size of the World Cup bounty.
The T&TFF claimed to rake in $18,255,952 from the tournament in Germany but the Trinidad and Tobago government, in accordance with the Freedom of Information Act, revealed last August that the T&TFF's World Cup income was in excess of $173 million.
The players' English attorney, Mike Townley, initially sought to have the case heard in a Trinidad and Tobago courtroom before agreeing, after a request by the T&TFF, to go to the Sport Dispute Resolution Panel instead.
But no one from the T&TFF turned up in London to give evidence and face cross-examination.
Ex-West Ham player and ESPN analyst Shaka Hislop, Southampton striker Stern John, Gillingham goalkeeper Kelvin Jack and Ross County defender Brent Sancho appeared as witnesses for the players, while Gillingham defender Ian Cox showed up to observe proceedings and offer support.
Townley and Rupert Butler SC represented the players, while English barrister William McCormack and local lawyers Om Lalla and Kelvin Ramkissoon acted on behalf of the T&TFF.
Wha happen Jackula, Scamps and Rodent....ya have something to hide??
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Wha happen Jackula, Scamps and Rodent....ya have something to hide??
dem men PROTECTED by FIFA
the MOST corrupt organisation in the world
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Sad we blood, sweat and tears heros have to go through all this for all they have done for our nation. I was wondering why Shaka wasnt at the EsPn studios yesterday. He had to miss a payday just to go to court
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Keep at it guys dey must eh show up dey just wicked and bad mind and no not even in a kangaroo court dey eh have a chance
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TV 6 say a week from 2day we will know d outcome. Dey say that d TTFF did not have 2 appear as it was d players who had 2 prove that the money was owed 2 dem
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TV 6 say a week from 2day we will know d outcome. Dey say that d TTFF did not have 2 appear as it was d players who had 2 prove that the money was owed 2 dem
Oh ho....well we wait den...
(ah miss de news 2nite...no cable in Santa Cruz...sstteeuuppss!!)
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de problem with dem fellas case is dat Jack could say anything..OFFICIALLY..he eh part ah de TTFF.
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D 30% was in writing. He cyah b d SA 4 d TTFF and then turn round and say what he do eh have nutten 2 do wit d TTFF. If dat is d judgement then dat is a kangaroo court personified
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de problem with dem fellas case is dat Jack could say anything..OFFICIALLY..he eh part ah de TTFF.
If you read the original COMPLAINT (http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=28964.0), number 7 under Parties is "LOC Germany 2006 Limited (Company #1138631)" which Jack was the OFFICIAL Chairman of.
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Decision delayed
W/Cup bonus judgment next week
Lasana Liburd
Thursday, May 1st 2008
The Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) and 16 of their 2006 World Cup players must wait until next week for judgment in their wrangle over commercial revenue earned from the "Soca Warriors" historic qualification for the FIFA showcase tournament.
The third and final day of the arbitration hearing for the Warriors and the T&TFF ended yesterday in London with legal representatives for either side taking two hours each to summarise their positions before arbitrator, Ian Mill QC.
The 16 players and the T&TFF allegedly agreed, in early 2006, to split 50 per cent of all income accrued from the team's participation in the prestigious Germany-based tournament.
However, the Warriors contested the validity of the T&TFF's accounting and their decision to deduct expenses prior to offering payment and, after contemplating a suit in civil court, accepted their employers' request to seek justice before the London-based Sport Dispute Resolution Panel.
Ex-West Ham player and ESPN commentator Shaka Hislop, Southampton striker Stern John, Gillingham goalkeeper Kelvin Jack and Ross County defender Brent Sancho appeared as witnesses for the players while the T&TFF did not offer any witness.
English barrister William McCormack SC and local lawyers Om Lalla and Kelvin Ramkissoon represented the T&TFF. The local football organising body argued that talks between their special advisor and FIFA vice-president Jack Warner and the players never reached a level of certainty required by law to become a legal contract.
McCormack also suggested the players superceded all previous financial discussions when they signed a FIFA participation agreement, before the tournament, that did not adequately address their commercial concerns.
The players, represented by the English legal team of Rupert Butler SC and Michael Townley, countered that they did receive a contract-albeit an oral one-which had nothing to do with the standard FIFA participation contract signed by all guest nations.
Legal representatives for either side requested a detailed written award from Mill, which is likely to come next week.
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I can't help but wonder if our heroes may have been outmaneuvered by allowing this arbitration to be about the validity of the contract. That should never have been in question as it has been acknowledged in statements by Warner and TTFF. Hopefully it works out in their (SocaWarriors) favour.
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I can't help but wonder if our heroes may have been outmaneuvered by allowing this arbitration to be about the validity of the contract. That should never have been in question as it has been acknowledged in statements by Warner and TTFF. Hopefully it works out in their (SocaWarriors) favour.
Of course it is in question...both Jack and the TTFF have denied that they owe the players any money more than the FIFA bonus. In law, as in anything else...you can't move from A to C without first determining the status of B. 'C' is the money... 'B' is the TTFF's obligation to pay it.
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Ent, determining the validity of the alleged contract is the first step in settling the dispute.
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I can't help but wonder if our heroes may have been outmaneuvered by allowing this arbitration to be about the validity of the contract. That should never have been in question as it has been acknowledged in statements by Warner and TTFF. Hopefully it works out in their (SocaWarriors) favour.
Of course it is in question...both Jack and the TTFF have denied that they owe the players any money more than the FIFA bonus. In law, as in anything else...you can't move from A to C without first determining the status of B. 'C' is the money... 'B' is the TTFF's obligation to pay it.
Sorry. It was my understanding that neither Jack nor the TTFF denied making the deal but that the issue was in terms of the accounting. And as I stated in my previous post, I was of the impression that TTFF and Jack had acknowledged the existence of the deal, hence my thinking that it should not be in question.