Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Controversial on March 30, 2009, 12:59:00 PM
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In all honesty, i have been too many games in hasley and also the oval, to tell you the truth, support home is sorf, real sorf...
for example ah normal football lime to watch T&T play in toronto or new york, music blasting, riddum section, women wining during the match, people bawling, nobody quiet, drinks passing, ole talk passing, people chanting, yuh dont even need to hear commentary, yuh listening to the talk right dey.
If a game was played in giants stadium or bmo field in toronto, i could imagine how many trinis from toronto, montreal, the tri state area on the whole will be there and it would be opposite to the trinidad atmosphere, 12th man is joke, it would a 13th man also, i find and i hate to admit this, but foreign based trinis support more.
Look at the thread for the US game, man driving and flying in to see the team, that is patriotism, unlike at home, allyuh does take things for granted. There are very few who are real supporters, the rest just pretenders oui. No wonder them hondurans feel at home.
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we have about three other active threads dealing with T&T fan support...this could be merged..
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All ah all yuh just wavin d flag because all yuh out ah TNT. patriotism does rise once yuh out of d air space. It have nuff Trinbgonians who not into football eh know d team in Nashville
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All ah all yuh just wavin d flag because all yuh out ah TNT. patriotism does rise once yuh out of d air space. It have nuff Trinbgonians who not into football eh know d team in Nashville
that is so true....................
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The US thread is long because most of the posters here are not local based. Many of those posters who only see T&T play in a 640 x 480 video are excited about the opportunity to see the team play and their enthusiasm is justified. FYI many local die hard fans don't post here at all.
This is yet another one of your threads where you insinuate that foreign based Trinis are more patriotic than locals. It's alright to criticize atmosphere but don't question people's patriotism.
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All ah all yuh just wavin d flag because all yuh out ah TNT. patriotism does rise once yuh out of d air space. It have nuff Trinbgonians who not into football eh know d team in Nashville
that is so true....................
My bfff marry a Haitian his 1st visit 2 TNT he lookin 4 d RWB every car he met in d US wit a TNT national had 1. I had 2 tell him boi we does only have dat in oui car outside ah d country.
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yes its true the fan support in trinidad was a bit dull but i wouldnt say who is better or why. in my opinion the reason why trinis in foreign countries seem a bit more patriotic is because of the multiple ethnicities living in that foriegn country. and they just want to show other people where we are from and what we are all about. for example you see it here in NY with the dominicans and puerto ricans showing their flags 24/7/365.
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yes its true the fan support in trinidad was a bit dull but i wouldnt say who is better or why. in my opinion the reason why trinis in foreign countries seem a bit more patriotic is because of the multiple ethnicities living in that foriegn country. and they just want to show other people where we are from and what we are all about. for example you see it here in NY with the dominicans and puerto ricans showing their flags 24/7/365.
Cosign
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The US thread is long because most of the posters here are not local based. Many of those posters who only see T&T play in a 640 x 480 video are excited about the opportunity to see the team play and their enthusiasm is justified. FYI many local die hard fans don't post here at all.
This is yet another one of your threads where you insinuate that foreign based Trinis are more patriotic than locals. It's alright to criticize atmosphere but don't question people's patriotism.
one point i agree with you on, local die hards dont post on here, but also have not been attending games bc of various reasons, i know many of them, they fall into the die hard category, but it still doesnt take away the fact that staging a game away from trinidad would generate more support and passion than what is going on now.
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yes its true the fan support in trinidad was a bit dull but i wouldnt say who is better or why. in my opinion the reason why trinis in foreign countries seem a bit more patriotic is because of the multiple ethnicities living in that foriegn country. and they just want to show other people where we are from and what we are all about. for example you see it here in NY with the dominicans and puerto ricans showing their flags 24/7/365.
Cosign
whether i in trinidad or not i am patriotic, yes there is that factor also but one thing remains we support more abroad than home, only when trinidad going to qualify, man gone mad, before that you could hear a pin drop in the stadium, one setta wagonnists. and weary u ever live abroad to talk?
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yes its true the fan support in trinidad was a bit dull but i wouldnt say who is better or why. in my opinion the reason why trinis in foreign countries seem a bit more patriotic is because of the multiple ethnicities living in that foriegn country. and they just want to show other people where we are from and what we are all about. for example you see it here in NY with the dominicans and puerto ricans showing their flags 24/7/365.
Cosign
whether i in trinidad or not i am patriotic, yes there is that factor also but one thing remains we support more abroad than home, only when trinidad going to qualify, man gone mad, before that you could hear a pin drop in the stadium, one setta wagonnists. and weary u ever live abroad to talk?
Gr8 4 u TI but nuff Trinis eh patriotic. 3 very long yrs in JA. D closest ting 2 patriotism was nov 19th on d friday when everybody war red. Dat is when u knew who was Trini other times u eh have a clue. In d fish bowl dat was Mona campus Trinis passin each other like full bus in TNT. A full bus is a concept in JA.
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The US thread is long because most of the posters here are not local based. Many of those posters who only see T&T play in a 640 x 480 video are excited about the opportunity to see the team play and their enthusiasm is justified. FYI many local die hard fans don't post here at all.
This is yet another one of your threads where you insinuate that foreign based Trinis are more patriotic than locals. It's alright to criticize atmosphere but don't question people's patriotism.
one point i agree with you on, local die hards dont post on here, but also have not been attending games bc of various reasons, i know many of them, they fall into the die hard category, but it still doesnt take away the fact that staging a game away from trinidad would generate more support and passion than what is going on now.
Your strategy to increase vocal support at games is to play the game outside of T&T in front of fans who overtusty to show they love T&T even though they don't live there again. I'm sure we could do better than that.
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dais why de man name Controversial.
but I could see a game against Honduras played in Toronto where T&T fans would come and show some rell support and make serious noise..the Honduras fans would get drowned out before the game start. Yuh cyah play US in Canada for obvious reasons...but against some of the Central American countries...would be nice to see us host up them up here...
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Gr8 4 u TI but nuff Trinis eh patriotic. 3 very long yrs in JA. D closest ting 2 patriotism was nov 19th on d friday when everybody war red. Dat is when u knew who was Trini other times u eh have a clue. In d fish bowl dat was Mona campus Trinis passin each other like full bus in TNT. A full bus is a concept in JA.
So true,Trinis only interested in the lime... Nov 19th 89, I remember asking a girl I knew if she was going to the game, she look at me like, of course you fool, now I know she ain't no football or sport enthusaist, so I ask her who T&T playing and she did not know. Really not that shocking, also when I was in Germany ah man offer a fella I know 800.00 Euro for his ticket to the T&T vs. England game, he sell it cool cool... Now they have no way, I coulda sell that ticket, I ask him what the hell you doing, he say, I only here cause I know it is good lime, that money reimbusre my Germany expenses. I say way sah, but then again not really shocking
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All ah all yuh just wavin d flag because all yuh out ah TNT. patriotism does rise once yuh out of d air space. It have nuff Trinbgonians who not into football eh know d team in Nashville
Why you doh shut yuh ass and let yuh brain recharge sometimes?
The fact of the matter is that TRUE football fans making the sacrifice to drive to Nashville to see the game. Other diehards can't make it but would if they could. The fact that there are non-football fans from Trinidad who don't care about the game is a separate issue that has nothing to do with FAN support. The very 'fans' in TnT either ent paying to go watch the game, or when they get there they rather siddung and give golf clap.
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The fact of the matter is that TRUE football fans making the sacrifice to drive to Nashville to see the game. Other diehards can't make it but would if they could. The fact that there are non-football fans from Trinidad who don't care about the game is a separate issue that has nothing to do with FAN support. The very 'fans' in TnT either ent paying to go watch the game, or when they get there they rather siddung and give golf clap.
Drive alone?! People flyin een from all bout de place. It eh even ha decent seats in de TnT fan section no more unless yuh buyin ah single an somebody sell it to yuh. I eh go question wey ha more fans but it certainly does appear that the fans abroad more often willin to go further lengths to see and support the team.
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Drive alone?! People flyin een from all bout de place. It eh even ha decent seats in de TnT fan section no more unless yuh buyin ah single an somebody sell it to yuh. I eh go question wey ha more fans but it certainly does appear that the fans abroad more often willin to go further lengths to see and support the team.
Yeah... maybe is ah case of "eat little, live long", fans in TnT not appreciating all de 'food' they have. But I just think the mindset is just different. We doh get ah lot of football, let alone football featuring we team so we making dat sacrifice tuh support. Fans in Trinidad way more complacent... for whatever reason.
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Drive alone?! People flyin een from all bout de place. It eh even ha decent seats in de TnT fan section no more unless yuh buyin ah single an somebody sell it to yuh. I eh go question wey ha more fans but it certainly does appear that the fans abroad more often willin to go further lengths to see and support the team.
Yeah... maybe is ah case of "eat little, live long", fans in TnT not appreciating all de 'food' they have. But I just think the mindset is just different. We doh get ah lot of football, let alone football featuring we team so we making dat sacrifice tuh support. Fans in Trinidad way more complacent... for whatever reason.
i does look at this as an opportunity to hang out with meh countrymen and family..especially when yuh notice where i living
but at the same time it have other people who into football that living in the big metro areas who does have to think bout 3 times then decide if they going and watch T&T play up here..i know not everybody situation is de same though (work,vacation etc)
then again it have the 'Super' Trini them..outta them, half is only talk de talk
the only thing dat could stop me is meh wife but ah always willing to take the 6 months in de dog house ;D
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I guess people home take it for granted with the patriotic thing. Football support is a cultural thing. Like I said before, not too long ago in TT, people use to go to football games and most times were entertain by the field of play, the nutsman, the shit talker and on many occasions(inter-col) a real good rythm section. That culture has slipped away because of couple factors. Change in demographics, other attractions, high unemployment in the Afro community, and TTFF 30 yrs running of football into the ground.
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The US thread is long because most of the posters here are not local based. Many of those posters who only see T&T play in a 640 x 480 video are excited about the opportunity to see the team play and their enthusiasm is justified. FYI many local die hard fans don't post here at all.
This is yet another one of your threads where you insinuate that foreign based Trinis are more patriotic than locals. It's alright to criticize atmosphere but don't question people's patriotism.
Doh get sensitive Jah- it's not about patriotism- that can't be measured by the decibel level of crowd support.
I think TI is commenting on the fact that Trinis outside of Trinidad, are quicker to bond with eachother for no other reason than being compatriots....... and in a football setting the end result is a more unified and vociferous outward support for the team...For obvious reasons there is a greater sense of camaraderie with your fellow Trini overseas (we're outnumbered in a foreign space). As Trinis overseas, being in a group in a foreign land works wonders for our feeling of unity and our willingness to outwardly express ourselves as Trinis.
Transplant that same crowd (the same individuals) from the Stadium on Saturday to Giants Stadium, and ah bet is Carnival from whistle to whistle...
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All ah all yuh just wavin d flag because all yuh out ah TNT. patriotism does rise once yuh out of d air space. It have nuff Trinbgonians who not into football eh know d team in Nashville
Why you doh shut yuh ass and let yuh brain recharge sometimes?
The fact of the matter is that TRUE football fans making the sacrifice to drive to Nashville to see the game. Other diehards can't make it but would if they could. The fact that there are non-football fans from Trinidad who don't care about the game is a separate issue that has nothing to do with FAN support. The very 'fans' in TnT either ent paying to go watch the game, or when they get there they rather siddung and give golf clap.
weary feel trinis living abroad are all millionaires and can just pick up and jump on a plane or take a drive to these games, pay for hotel, game tickets, food and drinks and easily take time off work or school, i wish i could make it but i have prior business commitments that i must attend or else i woild be right dey, just like many other trinis who would have made that sacrifice, she like to talk shit
hold that game in new york or trini and watch the atmosphere and support, weary know that thats why she talking shit bc it makes locals look sorf
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Fuss was local based vs foreign based players and who better and who should get a bly.
Now we jes had to extrapolate dat to local based versus foreign based supporters...who more patriotic.
STEEEUUUPPPEEESSSS!!! ::)
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The US will never play TT in WC in Baltimore/Wash/VA or NY/NJ/Philly. If they do, I'll bet it will be a small stadium and they will try their best to sell the tickets to US fans only.
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Gr8 4 u TI but nuff Trinis eh patriotic. 3 very long yrs in JA. D closest ting 2 patriotism was nov 19th on d friday when everybody war red. Dat is when u knew who was Trini other times u eh have a clue. In d fish bowl dat was Mona campus Trinis passin each other like full bus in TNT. A full bus is a concept in JA.
So true,Trinis only interested in the lime... Nov 19th 89, I remember asking a girl I knew if she was going to the game, she look at me like, of course you fool, now I know she ain't no football or sport enthusaist, so I ask her who T&T playing and she did not know. Really not that shocking, also when I was in Germany ah man offer a fella I know 800.00 Euro for his ticket to the T&T vs. England game, he sell it cool cool... Now they have no way, I coulda sell that ticket, I ask him what the hell you doing, he say, I only here cause I know it is good lime, that money reimbusre my Germany expenses. I say way sah, but then again not really shocking
I woulda sell my ticket cool cool too...
I sure I coulda buy back ah next one for 400 euros...
come samo... yuh hadda be ah business man always
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Gr8 4 u TI but nuff Trinis eh patriotic. 3 very long yrs in JA. D closest ting 2 patriotism was nov 19th on d friday when everybody war red. Dat is when u knew who was Trini other times u eh have a clue. In d fish bowl dat was Mona campus Trinis passin each other like full bus in TNT. A full bus is a concept in JA.
So true,Trinis only interested in the lime... Nov 19th 89, I remember asking a girl I knew if she was going to the game, she look at me like, of course you fool, now I know she ain't no football or sport enthusaist, so I ask her who T&T playing and she did not know. Really not that shocking, also when I was in Germany ah man offer a fella I know 800.00 Euro for his ticket to the T&T vs. England game, he sell it cool cool... Now they have no way, I coulda sell that ticket, I ask him what the hell you doing, he say, I only here cause I know it is good lime, that money reimbusre my Germany expenses. I say way sah, but then again not really shocking
I woulda sell my ticket cool cool too...
I sure I coulda buy back ah next one for 400 euros...
come samo... yuh hadda be ah business man always
i got offered 1000 euro for my ticket, i tell the man yuh crazy, i ent missing this match, no money could buy this ticket, at least he couldnt afford to buy it, it would have costed him over 10000 euro easy easy :devil:
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Ungratefull.
This thread is a great example to show that TnT people generally unappreciative.
Our Hasley Crawford Stadium was full for a WCQ for the first time since the Bahrain match. It was ram cram and i was very happy for that. When last that happen? Our first three games in the Hex last time were against USA in the oval, costa rica in de stadium and against panama in the stadium and only for the USA there was a reasonable crowd cause it was ah "Ash Wednesday lime"
It is human nature to identify where u come from especially if you are in a foreign land. I remember when i was in Germany in 2006, i was liming and talking with every Trini i see. I wore red and had a flag every single day, everywhere i went.
Put those same people who were in the HCS on saturday in Nashville and they would behave totally different and vice versa if the foreign based came down here.
Mr Controversial, i lime with you in a game in Trinidad already and u was just as quiet. ;D
I am happy that we selling out games that are normally considered meaningless by the general public!!
ah love it!!
nb: Samo, i was selling dat too and watching de game in de fan fest normal normal.....lol
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Ungratefull.
This thread is a great example to show that TnT people generally unappreciative.
Our Hasley Crawford Stadium was full for a WCQ for the first time since the Bahrain match. It was ram cram and i was very happy for that. When last that happen? Our first three games in the Hex last time were against USA in the oval, costa rica in de stadium and against panama in the stadium and only for the USA there was a reasonable crowd cause it was ah "Ash Wednesday lime"
It is human nature to identify where u come from especially if you are in a foreign land. I remember when i was in Germany in 2006, i was liming and talking with every Trini i see. I wore red and had a flag every single day, everywhere i went.
Put those same people who were in the HCS on saturday in Nashville and they would behave totally different and vice versa if the foreign based came down here.
Mr Controversial, i lime with you in a game in Trinidad already and u was just as quiet. ;D
I am happy that we selling out games that are normally considered meaningless by the general public!!
ah love it!!
nb: Samo, i was selling dat too and watching de game in de fan fest normal normal.....lol
mr 3000, this thread is not for you, you are listed as one of the exceptions ;D me quiet? lol :rotfl: the only way i would be quiet if i was vex or if i would be made a papyshow being the only person getting on out of the 1000 plus people sitting around me who sitdung like mook lol and you know we were not quiet in germany
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i got offered 1000 euro for my ticket, i tell the man yuh crazy, i ent missing this match, no money could buy this ticket, at least he couldnt afford to buy it, it would have costed him over 10000 euro easy easy :devil:
Allyuh see... look TI coulda sell he ticket for 1000 and buy back ah ticket from samo pardner self for 800...
He woulda get to see the match and make ah 100 euros for every goal we collect... I woulda be more than happy with dat...
Imagine if we did win or draw!! :rotfl:
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Fuss was local based vs foreign based players and who better and who should get a bly.
Now we jes had to extrapolate dat to local based versus foreign based supporters...who more patriotic.
STEEEUUUPPPEEESSSS!!! ::)
if again! men geyin on like if is a flickin competition!
foreign based, jus go out an support d blasted team an stop geyin on like allyuh support mean more to d team dan we local support nah.
d majority ah we kno dat d local crowd full of posers and gapers. some ah we does try we best to be vocal an be heard, but daiz jus how it is.
allyuh jus go out on wednesday an support we team an forget dis primary school 'who support better dan who' bullshit
bless!!
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But really and truly....a good bit of the people in the USA game in Tennessee is rich people from down here who flying up.
Also is only every 4 years alyuh getting a WCQ game to go to...so yuh must save up yuh money for the lime of your life, especially as yuh in the snow, ent eat a good curry or pelau or corn soup in a while or hear some shit talk with a trini accent.
Dais why them ting priceless and as countrymen alyuh does go and congregate.
Why in gold cup it was only about 200 of we in the Orange Bowl?
Doh frighten, stadium fulling up down here now...a far cry from how it was before. Lewwe take we time, we filling seats, they go teach dem just now how to clap and wha is offside.
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Kicker I was taking issue with TI in particular where he claimed the atmosphere at games in NY or TO demonstrated greater patriotism in those fans than fans attending matches in Port of Spain. Let me say that I have no problem with the fact that Trinis abroad want to show love for their country and their team. My problem is the suggestion that local based fans are not as patriotic. This contribution is the latest installment of the foreign Trini vs local Trini series.
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This is a pretty useless thread, but I'll throw in my comments.
EVERY game I've been to in the US has had a small band of enthusiastic supporters. Not enough, however, to create some home-away-from-home atmosphere, or even to fill 1/4 of the stadium. From my observations, it may be just as likely that the lime and the rhythm section are as much a draw as any support of the football on the field (which has more often than not been painful to watch).
The enthusiasm in SSFL games tends to be concentrated around a small band of vocal supporters, the vast majority at the game either watching the game, or liming.
In the lead up to Nov 1989 and the subsequent home games (that game itself was a waggonistival), I would say that the people I sat with in the stadium were no less passionate about T&T and football, but tended to be more of a mind to actually watch a game and engage in endless old talk than to make noise to pump up the team.
To suggest that people aren't patriotic, or that the support 'sorf' because they not making noise is insulting. if everybody so patriotic, when is the last time you went to see a T&T event out here besides soccer? Field Hockey? Volleyball? You coming with a rhythm section for Netball or Cycling?
What would probably help the atmosphere in the HCS is the creation of a supporters section, where all the noise makers can concentrate their efforts. This would go a long way toward getting the rest of the crowd going. In the mean time, don't insult the rest of us because you find HCS should be like Old Trafford.
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But really and truly....a good bit of the people in the USA game in Tennessee is rich people from down here who flying up.
Also is only every 4 years alyuh getting a WCQ game to go to...so yuh must save up yuh money for the lime of your life, especially as yuh in the snow, ent eat a good curry or pelau or corn soup in a while or hear some shit talk with a trini accent.
Dais why them ting priceless and as countrymen alyuh does go and congregate.
Why in gold cup it was only about 200 of we in the Orange Bowl?
Doh frighten, stadium fulling up down here now...a far cry from how it was before. Lewwe take we time, we filling seats, they go teach dem just now how to clap and wha is offside.
this is the most bullshit i ever read from you in years, since the old board, :devil: come again touches, your observations are far fetched, if not totally rediculous, when you actually attend a game abroad talk, otherwise jus stick to writing commentary of local games
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Eh Eh you real farse with yuhself...I was a foreign based posse member too.
I speaking from both sides of the fence.
We do not have a big enough contingent abroad to fill up a section in any large stadium and this passionate support yuh talking bout is simply men who tight in the pre game drink up before they chip in the stadium with the riddim section.....it does be sweet yes, yuh could feel like yuh in jouvey...but it still cyar match a full Hasley Crawford Stadium even with waggonist.
If Sam Army turn on the heat or put the game in a boondocks area we will get level drown out.
Besides it have more Mexican, Honduran or El Salvadorian supporters to drown us out in the US no matter what stadium we play in.
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TT are not rabid fans supporters. We have lot of waggonists. But the support depends a lot on who is playing and at what stage of the WC quilifying we are in. But I tell when we have a wicked rythm section going we are second to none.
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Eh Eh you real farse with yuhself...I was a foreign based posse member too.
I speaking from both sides of the fence.
We do not have a big enough contingent abroad to fill up a section in any large stadium and this passionate support yuh talking bout is simply men who tight in the pre game drink up before they chip in the stadium with the riddim section.....it does be sweet yes, yuh could feel like yuh in jouvey...but it still cyar match a full Hasley Crawford Stadium even with waggonist.
If Sam Army turn on the heat or put the game in a boondocks area we will get level drown out.
Besides it have more Mexican, Honduran or El Salvadorian supporters to drown us out in the US no matter what stadium we play in.
Breddah touches.....doh raise yuh blood pressha bro. Remember who yuh dealin wit. ;D
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Eh Eh you real farse with yuhself...I was a foreign based posse member too.
I speaking from both sides of the fence.
We do not have a big enough contingent abroad to fill up a section in any large stadium and this passionate support yuh talking bout is simply men who tight in the pre game drink up before they chip in the stadium with the riddim section.....it does be sweet yes, yuh could feel like yuh in jouvey...but it still cyar match a full Hasley Crawford Stadium even with waggonist.
If Sam Army turn on the heat or put the game in a boondocks area we will get level drown out.
Besides it have more Mexican, Honduran or El Salvadorian supporters to drown us out in the US no matter what stadium we play in.
;D touchy touchy, if the game is played in new york or toronto it will sell out guaranteed, no questions asked, the fact of the matter is, it has never been played in toronto nor new york, so how can you say is a small lime and chip...
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But really and truly....a good bit of the people in the USA game in Tennessee is rich people from down here who flying up.
Also is only every 4 years alyuh getting a WCQ game to go to...so yuh must save up yuh money for the lime of your life, especially as yuh in the snow, ent eat a good curry or pelau or corn soup in a while or hear some shit talk with a trini accent.
Dais why them ting priceless and as countrymen alyuh does go and congregate.
Why in gold cup it was only about 200 of we in the Orange Bowl?
Doh frighten, stadium fulling up down here now...a far cry from how it was before. Lewwe take we time, we filling seats, they go teach dem just now how to clap and wha is offside.
Doh get tie up... nuff man getting that up here regular, especially if yuh in de NY, DC, or Miami metro areas.
Warrior Queen, Jah Gol et all... ah doh think allyuh eh following de discussion properly, this ent about de diehards in Trini who does support, or about those diehards who want to but can't afford tuh pay Jack ransom every game. We know if have faithful like yuhself... yuh presence on de board is evidence of that. This thread is about the one's who either doh give ah damn tuh show up... or when they show up ent really give ah damn about cheering. Police man threatening to lock man up b/c he cheering too much?? Come on.
Andre... nah is not about being ungrateful, thank God for small mercies, so yeah we happy de stadium was ram but leh we not get side-tracked by mediocrity. We eh want it on de field and we eh want it in de stands.
EDIT: ah have to retract a portion of what ah say, because I was more addressing the issue of fan support in general, and forgetting which thread ah was really posting in. That said, the local-based have a right to feel offended by the notion that the foreign-based more patriotic than them, as suggested by the initial post.
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Eh Eh you real farse with yuhself...I was a foreign based posse member too.
I speaking from both sides of the fence.
We do not have a big enough contingent abroad to fill up a section in any large stadium and this passionate support yuh talking bout is simply men who tight in the pre game drink up before they chip in the stadium with the riddim section.....it does be sweet yes, yuh could feel like yuh in jouvey...but it still cyar match a full Hasley Crawford Stadium even with waggonist.
If Sam Army turn on the heat or put the game in a boondocks area we will get level drown out.
Besides it have more Mexican, Honduran or El Salvadorian supporters to drown us out in the US no matter what stadium we play in.
Breddah touches.....doh raise yuh blood pressha bro. Remember who yuh dealin wit. ;D
u self would love a game down in toronto, you would be on the first plane out of vancouver :devil:
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This is a pretty useless thread, but I'll throw in my comments.
EVERY game I've been to in the US has had a small band of enthusiastic supporters. Not enough, however, to create some home-away-from-home atmosphere, or even to fill 1/4 of the stadium. From my observations, it may be just as likely that the lime and the rhythm section are as much a draw as any support of the football on the field (which has more often than not been painful to watch).
The enthusiasm in SSFL games tends to be concentrated around a small band of vocal supporters, the vast majority at the game either watching the game, or liming.
In the lead up to Nov 1989 and the subsequent home games (that game itself was a waggonistival), I would say that the people I sat with in the stadium were no less passionate about T&T and football, but tended to be more of a mind to actually watch a game and engage in endless old talk than to make noise to pump up the team.
To suggest that people aren't patriotic, or that the support 'sorf' because they not making noise is insulting. if everybody so patriotic, when is the last time you went to see a T&T event out here besides soccer? Field Hockey? Volleyball? You coming with a rhythm section for Netball or Cycling?
What would probably help the atmosphere in the HCS is the creation of a supporters section, where all the noise makers can concentrate their efforts. This would go a long way toward getting the rest of the crowd going. In the mean time, don't insult the rest of us because you find HCS should be like Old Trafford.
Real corn getting mash in here boy, lol.
I like the last paragraph and support that wholeheartedly... but as for the rest, I feel allyuh men and dem letting allyuh emotions get the better of allyuh. Maybe is true that some men are diehard supporters, they just not into de rah rah thing... I could understand, AND relate tuh dat. Is another thing when man telling yuh hush yuh ass and siddung and ting doh. Unless the WN faithful here who sharing they experiences all juss happen tuh siddung around de same set ah crabby supporters telling dem tuh kill de noise.
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maybe if Canada could qualify for ah hex allyuh might get ah game in Toronto...but why anyone want to be dey is beyond me.
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Eh Eh you real farse with yuhself...I was a foreign based posse member too.
I speaking from both sides of the fence.
We do not have a big enough contingent abroad to fill up a section in any large stadium and this passionate support yuh talking bout is simply men who tight in the pre game drink up before they chip in the stadium with the riddim section.....it does be sweet yes, yuh could feel like yuh in jouvey...but it still cyar match a full Hasley Crawford Stadium even with waggonist.
If Sam Army turn on the heat or put the game in a boondocks area we will get level drown out.
Besides it have more Mexican, Honduran or El Salvadorian supporters to drown us out in the US no matter what stadium we play in.
Breddah touches.....doh raise yuh blood pressha bro. Remember who yuh dealin wit. ;D
:rotfl: :rotfl:
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But really and truly....a good bit of the people in the USA game in Tennessee is rich people from down here who flying up.
Also is only every 4 years alyuh getting a WCQ game to go to...so yuh must save up yuh money for the lime of your life, especially as yuh in the snow, ent eat a good curry or pelau or corn soup in a while or hear some shit talk with a trini accent.
Dais why them ting priceless and as countrymen alyuh does go and congregate.
Why in gold cup it was only about 200 of we in the Orange Bowl?
Doh frighten, stadium fulling up down here now...a far cry from how it was before. Lewwe take we time, we filling seats, they go teach dem just now how to clap and wha is offside.
this is the most bullshit i ever read from you in years, since the old board, :devil: come again touches, your observations are far fetched, if not totally rediculous, when you actually attend a game abroad talk, otherwise jus stick to writing commentary of local games
TI Touches is right, beyond right for that matter.
We have had a few games where big numbers how up, and by big I mean a couple thousand at most. But those have been few and far between. In Boston two years ago we had about 1000 tops, Home Depot even worse.
Plenty people from this board going Nashiville but that still might not equate to 1000 people. Plus that is an area where men don't get to see TnT play at all so it has plenty novelty appeal.
You watching the crowd around you and thinking it big without realizing that it is a small portion of the whole crowd and is still nothing compared to the 10 - 30,000 that show up in TnT. TnT is small, the expat population is small compared to all the other nations at this level in Concacaf. And most importantly...
The expat Trinbagonians is the same Trinbagonians from home. The only difference is that you tend to cling to your heritage more when yuh missing it. You reach pout more to compatriots and treasure opportunities to congregate. But even with that factor if people not on football, they not on football, and we as a people not on football (Carnival on the other hand is a different story). I have plenty Trini family and friends up here and when I mention football game they have no time for it, especially when they have to take time off work, drive far or take a flight. It is not much different to home but at least at home it is easy to attend games.
Only you could miss the irony in suggesting that people who leave a country to live in a foreign land MORE patriotic than those who choose to stay and make their life there.
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Only you could miss the irony in suggesting that people who leave a country to live in a foreign land MORE patriotic than those who choose to stay and make their life there.
Are you saying that because someone lives in a foreign country, it means they are not patriotic? Or it lessens their patriotism?
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[
Only you could miss the irony in suggesting that people who leave a country to live in a foreign land MORE patriotic than those who choose to stay and make their life there.
Are you saying that because someone lives in a foreign country, it means they are not patriotic? Or it lessens their patriotism?
Like you miss the irony too
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[
Only you could miss the irony in suggesting that people who leave a country to live in a foreign land MORE patriotic than those who choose to stay and make their life there.
Are you saying that because someone lives in a foreign country, it means they are not patriotic? Or it lessens their patriotism?
Like you miss the irony too
I ent miss nuttin I ask a question.
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I ent miss nuttin I ask a question.
Yuh miss everything.. otherwise yuh wouldnta ask dat question...
ent nutten wrong with dat... doh feel no how
btw JDB is ah expat too
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I ent miss nuttin I ask a question.
Yuh miss everything.. otherwise yuh wouldnta ask dat question...
ent nutten wrong with dat... doh feel no how
btw JDB is ah expat too
well since I miss every thing break it down for me as you see it, I await your interpretation. Might even take notes too
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well let me talk too... I have been foreign base on several continents and LET ME BE CLEAR.....
there is no place like TnT. We may not sing songs instead we does cuss everybody.. we may not clap all game long but is 3-4 rythym section spread out in de stands. from tassa straight back to de do-dop drum and base. Did I mention de carib girls?
An ode to the local warriors. It has been a pleasure meeting ones like Touches, Patriot, Weary, Brown sugar, Kandi TT, Jah Gol, Trini White boy, Stunner, Reaper, Tallman and he brethren, my brethren who does drive de black crv ;D
Going to Cro bar after to celebrate... raising de big flag in Tnt and being party to de prettiest bunch of females on de planet bar none. Now for any foreigner that can say dat... then I digress. I suspect however that we down here will continue to hold trophy.
If yuh feel ah lie then give TnT a try.
P.S. If de big and small Mag. would come out of de covered stands and come down in uncovered... maybe I might meet dem sometime also. I cya give up de action in de uncovered.
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Only you could miss the irony in suggesting that people who leave a country to live in a foreign land MORE patriotic than those who choose to stay and make their life there.[/b]
Are you saying that because someone lives in a foreign country, it means they are not patriotic? Or it lessens their patriotism?
Where you see me say anything like that? Everything I said was making the point that people at home and abroad are the same people, just in different circumstances.
Saying who more patriotic than who is a fruitless and divisive excercise that I would never get into, but it is ridiculous (not to mention insulting) to assert that the majority of those that have left are MORE patriotic. Just because I was knocking TI's assertion does not mean that I support the opposite.
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well let me talk too... I have been foreign base on several continents and LET ME BE CLEAR.....
there is no place like TnT. We may not sing songs instead we does cuss everybody.. we may not clap all game long but is 3-4 rythym section spread out in de stands. from tassa straight back to de do-dop drum and base. Did I mention de carib girls?
An ode to the local warriors. It has been a pleasure meeting ones like Touches, Patriot, Weary, Brown sugar, Kandi TT, Jah Gol, Trini White boy, Stunner, Reaper, Tallman and he brethren, my brethren who does drive de black crv ;D
Going to Cro bar after to celebrate... raising de big flag in Tnt and being party to de prettiest bunch of females on de planet bar none. Now for any foreigner that can say dat... then I digress. I suspect however that we down here will continue to hold trophy.
If yuh feel ah lie then give TnT a try.
P.S. If de big and small Mag. would come out of de covered stands and come down in uncovered... maybe I might meet dem sometime also. I cya give up de action in de uncovered.
Couldn't agree more. I should add that one of the best supporter experiences we had in recent memory was in Hartford in 2005. The rythm section had the support going and it was the group from Trinidad, sponsored by TSTT, by drive the experience. Likewise for the best parts of the fan experience in Germany, TnT based performers and companies provide a good vibe for fans, foreign and local-based.
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well let me talk too... I have been foreign base on several continents and LET ME BE CLEAR.....
there is no place like TnT. We may not sing songs instead we does cuss everybody.. we may not clap all game long but is 3-4 rythym section spread out in de stands. from tassa straight back to de do-dop drum and base. Did I mention de carib girls?
An ode to the local warriors. It has been a pleasure meeting ones like Touches, Patriot, Weary, Brown sugar, Kandi TT, Jah Gol, Trini White boy, Stunner, Reaper, Tallman and he brethren, my brethren who does drive de black crv ;D
Going to Cro bar after to celebrate... raising de big flag in Tnt and being party to de prettiest bunch of females on de planet bar none. Now for any foreigner that can say dat... then I digress. I suspect however that we down here will continue to hold trophy.
If yuh feel ah lie then give TnT a try.
P.S. If de big and small Mag. would come out of de covered stands and come down in uncovered... maybe I might meet dem sometime also. I cya give up de action in de uncovered.
Couldn't agree more. I should add that one of the best supporter experiences we had in recent memory was in Hartford in 2005. The rythm section had the support going and it was the group from Trinidad, sponsored by TSTT, by drive the experience. Likewise for the best parts of the fan experience in Germany, TnT based performers and companies provide a good vibe for fans, foreign and local-based.
jdb always arguing the opposite end of my posts, he is known for it throughout the years of posting, not a surprise, yet none of these guys have admitted a game in an area where there is trinis of substantial numbers and i not talking about nashville sah, people still avoiding that talk bc they know im right;
dont get me wrong i love watching meh warriors in trini but the crowd sorf home, alot of them people there for the lime or status, or posing, not the game, allyuh face it, despite i love being home and i love meh country, but facts is facts, if you put the game in new york or toronto, it would be madness for a wcq.
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maybe if Canada could qualify for ah hex allyuh might get ah game in Toronto...but why anyone want to be dey is beyond me.
... to be as far away from you ... :devil:
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well since I miss every thing break it down for me as you see it, I await your interpretation. Might even take notes too
Family... i ent trying to be cute or anything but let me indulge you...
Please point out where or how JDB is in ANYWAY suggesting that people living abroad are LESS patriotic than people at home.... see below... especially in context to the original post to which he responded...
I don't have to break down anything because what you seem to interpret just does not exist in the below sentence.
Only you could miss the irony in suggesting that people who leave a country to live in a foreign land MORE patriotic than those who choose to stay and make their life there.
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Its seems every true die-hard football fan and Soca Warriors supporters on this forum are now voicing how fed up they are with the "home-support" our team recieves(actually the lack thereof).
Guys we really have to take up my and a few others suggestion, that we organise ourselves into the Diehard Warriors Support posse and gather together at each game and spur our team forward.
I'll make a thread later to try and organise this, if someone else can make the thread first that will be good.
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jdb always arguing the opposite end of my posts, he is known for it throughout the years of posting, not a surprise, yet none of these guys have admitted a game in an area where there is trinis of substantial numbers and i not talking about nashville sah, people still avoiding that talk bc they know im right;
dont get me wrong i love watching meh warriors in trini but the crowd sorf home, alot of them people there for the lime or status, or posing, not the game, allyuh face it, despite i love being home and i love meh country, but facts is facts, if you put the game in new york or toronto, it would be madness for a wcq.
JDB's postings are usually well thought out, well structured and reasonable, so that is no surprise!
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Only you could miss the irony in suggesting that people who leave a country to live in a foreign land MORE patriotic than those who choose to stay and make their life there.[/b]
Are you saying that because someone lives in a foreign country, it means they are not patriotic? Or it lessens their patriotism?
Where you see me say anything like that? Everything I said was making the point that people at home and abroad are the same people, just in different circumstances.
Saying who more patriotic than who is a fruitless and divisive excercise that I would never get into, but it is ridiculous (not to mention insulting) to assert that the majority of those that have left are MORE patriotic. Just because I was knocking TI's assertion does not mean that I support the opposite.
well since I miss every thing break it down for me as you see it, I await your interpretation. Might even take notes too
Family... i ent trying to be cute or anything but let me indulge you...
Please point out where or how JDB is in ANYWAY suggesting that people living abroad are LESS patriotic than people at home.... see below... especially in context to the original post to which he responded...
I don't have to break down anything because what you seem to interpret just does not exist in the below sentence.
Only you could miss the irony in suggesting that people who leave a country to live in a foreign land MORE patriotic than those who choose to stay and make their life there.
An dat is why I ask for clarification because i wasnt sure where you were coming from. The way the last line was worded with the emphasis on MORE was a little unclear. Is all. I ent get on with anyone, just ask a question.
Maybe I interpret it too much, paid lil too much attention to the literary-
Irony meaning hypocrisy, deception, or feigned ignorance.- the use of words to express something other than and especially the opposite of the literal meaning
Just saying. I thought he was deliberately being ironic by emphasis on the MORE, instead intending to imply "less" Oh well, my English Professor at least would be proud :rotfl:
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Like you miss the irony too
Nah, her analysis is spot on.
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jdb always arguing the opposite end of my posts, he is known for it throughout the years of posting, not a surprise, yet none of these guys have admitted a game in an area where there is trinis of substantial numbers and i not talking about nashville sah, people still avoiding that talk bc they know im right;
dont get me wrong i love watching meh warriors in trini but the crowd sorf home, alot of them people there for the lime or status, or posing, not the game, allyuh face it, despite i love being home and i love meh country, but facts is facts, if you put the game in new york or toronto, it would be madness for a wcq.
JDB's postings are usually well thought out, well structured and reasonable, so that is no surprise!
thats bullshit, just like your story how yuh storm glow in germany :devil: when it was meh padnah who storm and yuh thief the man storm story oui :o
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jdb always arguing the opposite end of my posts, he is known for it throughout the years of posting, not a surprise, yet none of these guys have admitted a game in an area where there is trinis of substantial numbers and i not talking about nashville sah, people still avoiding that talk bc they know im right;
dont get me wrong i love watching meh warriors in trini but the crowd sorf home, alot of them people there for the lime or status, or posing, not the game, allyuh face it, despite i love being home and i love meh country, but facts is facts, if you put the game in new york or toronto, it would be madness for a wcq.
JDB's postings are usually well thought out, well structured and reasonable, so that is no surprise!
thats bullshit, just like your story how yuh storm glow in germany :devil: when it was meh padnah who storm and yuh thief the man storm story oui :o
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Oh no he didnt... t'iefing a Storm Story?? Is there no sense of decency anymore? :rotfl:
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...but it is ridiculous (not to mention insulting) to assert that the majority of those that have left are MORE patriotic. Just because I was knocking TI's assertion does not mean that I support the opposite.
I agree that it is ridiculous to make such an assertion... however by stating that it is somehow ironic to claim that ex-pats are more patriotic than locals who remain in their native land, the implication is that the place of residence is somehow indicative of the degree of patriotism stirring in the subject's breast... which is ridiculous.
May not have been what you intended to convey... but that is the implication nonetheless, by the use of ironic.
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thats bullshit, just like your story how yuh storm glow in germany :devil: when it was meh padnah who storm and yuh thief the man storm story oui :o
But wha de jail is this!! I have been besmirched!
TI mind how sullying my reputation as a stormer!!
Yuh crossing de line right dey... >:( >:(
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thats bullshit, just like your story how yuh storm glow in germany :devil: when it was meh padnah who storm and yuh thief the man storm story oui :o
But wha de jail is this!! I have been besmirched!
TI mind how sullying my reputation as a stormer!!
Yuh crossing de line right dey... >:( >:(
yuh friggin lie :D rticulate storm the friggin party thru the curtain, you pay your money, next ting yuh see meh brethren run up the stairs and yuh bawl out " is storm yuh storm" lol now go run along with yuh tail between yuh damn legs... yuh ent storm no friggin glow
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thats bullshit, just like your story how yuh storm glow in germany :devil: when it was meh padnah who storm and yuh thief the man storm story oui :o
But wha de jail is this!! I have been besmirched!
TI mind how sullying my reputation as a stormer!!
Yuh crossing de line right dey... >:( >:(
yuh friggin lie :D rticulate storm the friggin party thru the curtain, you pay your money, next ting yuh see meh brethren run up the stairs and yuh bawl out " is storm yuh storm" lol now go run along with yuh tail between yuh damn legs... yuh ent storm no friggin glow
FF, is tief yuh tief de man storm story :rotfl: This thread is too much kix
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thats bullshit, just like your story how yuh storm glow in germany :devil: when it was meh padnah who storm and yuh thief the man storm story oui :o
But wha de jail is this!! I have been besmirched!
TI mind how sullying my reputation as a stormer!!
Yuh crossing de line right dey... >:( >:(
yuh friggin lie :D rticulate storm the friggin party thru the curtain, you pay your money, next ting yuh see meh brethren run up the stairs and yuh bawl out " is storm yuh storm" lol now go run along with yuh tail between yuh damn legs... yuh ent storm no friggin glow
FF, is tief yuh tief de man storm story :rotfl: This thread is too much kix
You studying TI?
You self bounce up me and bobby as we come in dey hot and sweaty... is me and bobby we talking bout here...
steups dis fawking TI.. me ent know he and he pardner from Adam...
whey Bally?
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This is one kicksy thread....from who more patriotic, to the definition of ironic, to man defending dey storming reputation. LOL.
Allyuh is kicks yes.
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This is one kicksy thread....from who more patriotic, to the definition of ironic, to man defending dey storming reputation. LOL.
Allyuh is kicks yes.
Boy ah hadda defend it.... that is all I have in dis life... that sacred :rotfl:
June 19, 2006 as told by Bally before I even reach back from Germany
http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=17857.msg181871#msg181871
TI is ah lying sc**t
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maybe if the team give the fans something to be vocal they will,like the 89 min goal hyland score,when we played El Salvador we took the crowd out of the game with 2 early goals,i live in DC & alot of my people back home they jus tired with the bs with the player selection & the coach so they wont even go,besides what i could remember going to the stadium home was ah big lime,after the game saturday they asked ah man in the stands when is TNT next match he had no clue so is jus ah lime in the stands
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This is one kicksy thread....from who more patriotic, to the definition of ironic, to man defending dey storming reputation. LOL.
Allyuh is kicks yes.
Boy ah hadda defend it.... that is all I have in dis life... that sacred :rotfl:
June 19, 2006 as told by Bally before I even reach back from Germany
http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=17857.msg181871#msg181871
TI is ah lying sc**t
:devil: is lie yuh lie, doh make meh bring rticulate on the board tuh post the entire details of HIS storming story, not urs, imagine man come on the board and see FF big and bold claiming he storm de party, FF even give he name tuh meh padnah, iz FF from the board :rotfl: man lie oui, take pong sah, yuh too damn lie, yuh never storm glow, is rticluate story yuh thief.
heres the dialogue:
FF - yuh on the sw.net board
rticluate- yea i'm rticluate
FF- yes iz FF (short and malnourished :devil:)
Rticulate- I ent have a ticket for glow, and i ent paying that price
FF- breds i have my ticket oui, ah go check yuh inside
Rticluate - no scene, 1 min pass, rticluate buss de curtain and storm glow, as he running up the steps he passes FF
FF- "Is storm yuh storm"?
Rticluate- smiles
Controversial - FF is thief yuh thief the man storm......... :devil:
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...but it is ridiculous (not to mention insulting) to assert that the majority of those that have left are MORE patriotic. Just because I was knocking TI's assertion does not mean that I support the opposite.
I agree that it is ridiculous to make such an assertion... however by stating that it is somehow ironic to claim that ex-pats are more patriotic than locals who remain in their native land, the implication is that the place of residence is somehow indicative of the degree of patriotism stirring in the subject's breast... which is ridiculous.
May not have been what you intended to convey... but that is the implication nonetheless, by the use of ironic.
I agree that it is not the best/clearest use of the word.
I genuinely believe that it is no one's place to be making broad generalizations on patriotism. If you want to single out an individual based on specific acts where they denounce their heritage that is one thing but to paint a broad brush is another. That being said if you had to hear that talk it more often comes from people based at home and it is an undertsandable gut judgement "well if yuh love the place so much why...?".
The irony is that someone who would be an unfair victim of such a criticism, is completely oblivious while making the same flawed accusation (based on football attendance of all things).
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I agree that it is not the best/clearest use of the word.
I genuinely believe that it is no one's place to be making broad generalizations on patriotism. If you want to single out an individual based on specific acts where they denounce their heritage that is one thing but to paint a broad brush is another. That being said if you had to hear that talk it more often comes from people based at home and it is an undertsandable gut judgement "well if yuh love the place so much why...?".
The irony is that someone who would be an unfair victim of such a criticism, is completely oblivious while making the same flawed accusation (based on football attendance of all things).
I understand you now... and totally agree, you would think and ex-pat such as himself would know better. It's akin to locals thinking that they own the franchise on being Trini... or trying to somehow exclude children born of Trini parentage from claiming the Trini heritage. I also agree that non of us are fully capable of judging a next man's patriotism, let alone making that judgment on the basis of how loud we cheer or how often we support our national athletes.
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jdb always arguing the opposite end of my posts, he is known for it throughout the years of posting, not a surprise, yet none of these guys have admitted a game in an area where there is trinis of substantial numbers and i not talking about nashville sah, people still avoiding that talk bc they know im right;
dont get me wrong i love watching meh warriors in trini but the crowd sorf home, alot of them people there for the lime or status, or posing, not the game, allyuh face it, despite i love being home and i love meh country, but facts is facts, if you put the game in new york or toronto, it would be madness for a wcq.
The fact that we disagree is nothing personal whatever you might think. Is 3 or 4 matches we bounce up and we get on well. I don't doubt your commitment to representing TnT. Yuh always wearing yuh red TNT or WN jersey and I was very impressed with the interview yuh gave to them journalists in Dortmund.
However you do have a habit of taking one track and just running with it wothout assimilating any information that contradicts it. If I see flaws in your argument I will point it out. The attendace at past games in North America is there for everybody to see and all the anecdotes about how nice the lime was, intense the support was and far some people drive does not change the fact that overall the support is not more than back home. In fact the support is very similar and could even be worse.
More remote games, less people show up.
Less people for GC and semi-final matches than crucial Qualifiers.
More interest in Labour Day, Caribana, DC/Miami Carnival than football in any of the host cities.
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The fact that we disagree is nothing personal whatever you might think. Is 3 or 4 matches we bounce up and we get on well. I don't doubt your commitment to representing TnT. Yuh always wearing yuh red TNT or WN jersey and I was very impressed with the interview yuh gave to them journalists in Dortmund.
However you do have a habit of taking one track and just running with it wothout assimilating any information that contradicts it. If I see flaws in your argument I will point it out. The attendace at past games in North America is there for everybody to see and all the anecdotes about how nice the lime was, intense the support was and far some people drive does not change the fact that overall the support is not more than back home. In fact the support is very similar and could even be worse.
More remote games, less people show up.
Less people for GC and semi-final matches than crucial Qualifiers.
More interest in Labour Day, Caribana, DC/Miami Carnival than football in any of the host cities.
Not sure you can really say that... if you look at the respective populations, local Trinis vs the US ex-pats and compare the numbers (which admittedly I have no idea what they are) chances are there is greater per capita representation across the board here than in TnT. When one considers the hurdles many ex-pats navigate in order to go to the games the argument becomes moot. Among other things, people in Trinidad lack a sense of perspective. A trip from Grande to POS is too far... let alone travelling to Mannie Ramjohn. Yet man could get together and charter a bus from DC to Richmond for the 97 qualifier against the US... and people happy to pack a cooler and some food and make the 3-hour ride. Same charter could be organized in TnT and likely you won't even half fill the bus.
Of course there are other factors like the relative costs and affordability, but again too many Trinis just not concerned with making small sacrifices in order to support football.
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But really and truly....a good bit of the people in the USA game in Tennessee is rich people from down here who flying up.
Also is only every 4 years alyuh getting a WCQ game to go to...so yuh must save up yuh money for the lime of your life, especially as yuh in the snow, ent eat a good curry or pelau or corn soup in a while or hear some shit talk with a trini accent.
Dais why them ting priceless and as countrymen alyuh does go and congregate.
Why in gold cup it was only about 200 of we in the Orange Bowl?
Doh frighten, stadium fulling up down here now...a far cry from how it was before. Lewwe take we time, we filling seats, they go teach dem just now how to clap and wha is offside.
Who de fack you know savin up 4 years to go an see ah qualifier padna?! Steups allyuh does talk some variety ah jackassness oui. Every single person I know who goin did not save ah friggin penny to go. They decide dey goin an figure out how dey doin it. Bout save up?!! Steeeepppsss! Doh geh meh wrong I not tryin to compare the 2 because they are absolutely different in dynamic. Some have identified something I observed as well as personally experienced as being a major factor. But doh feel everybody who decide to travel fuh de game have some personal football nest egg set up fuh deze events fella!
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Not sure you can really say that... if you look at the respective populations, local Trinis vs the US ex-pats and compare the numbers (which admittedly I have no idea what they are) chances are there is greater per capita representation across the board here than in TnT. When one considers the hurdles many ex-pats navigate in order to go to the games the argument becomes moot.
I'm not sure that there is really a concrete basis for comparison here as T&T games away from home are special events: significant games that an expat can make credible attempts to attend come up relatively infrequently and so it is natural that a special effort would be made.
In fact, it have plenty trinis living in the states who are completely oblivious to the fact that we in the hex. If we still in contention with only a couple games to go however...
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I'm not sure that there is really a concrete basis for comparison here as T&T games away from home are special events: significant games that an expat can make credible attempts to attend come up relatively infrequently and so it is natural that a special effort would be made.
In fact, it have plenty trinis living in the states who are completely oblivious to the fact that we in the hex. If we still in contention with only a couple games to go however...
Wait... how 'frequent' are TnT World Cup qualifying home games? Those aren't "special events"? Significant games that supporters at home can make credible attempts to attend??
Even if you expand the universe of games to include non-WC qualifying home games, how frequent are those?
The games are a special events b/c the ex-pats who travel to games make them special events and treat them as such. I've previously addressed the issue of ex-pats who aren't concerned with the games... this is no different from Trinis living in Trinidad who also aren't concerned with football games. We're comparing fan base to fan base. Considering the cost and distance that many ex-pats encounter in travelling to support the Soca Warriors, imagine if supporters in TnT showed the same committment.
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Transplant the current expats back to T&T and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current locals
Transplant the current locals into a foreign country and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current expats.
Ain't two different sets of people with different levels of support for T&T football or the country as a whole. It's on average the same people with the same ideals and the same love for T&T, just exhibiting different behavioral patterns that are dictated by their social environment.
The only difference in my opinion is in the sense of unity. Trinis abroad will unify with eachother on the basis of being compatriots. I don't sense that Trinis at home feel that way about their fellow countrymen.
Trinis abroad trekking hundreds of miles to see the soca warriors is merely the following of a social trend that is born out of unity and a resulting festivity amongst a smal group foreign nationals. Take those expats and transplant them back in T&T, and my guess is vast majority will exhibit the same behavior observed amongst the current locals.
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Transplant the current expats back to T&T and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current locals
Transplant the current locals into a foreign country and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current expats.
Ain't two different sets of people with different levels of support for T&T football or the country as a whole. It's on average the same people with the same ideals and the same love for T&T, just exhibiting different behavioral patterns that are dictated by their social environment.
The only difference in my opinion is in the sense of unity. Trinis abroad will unify with eachother on the basis of being compatriots. I don't sense that Trinis at home feel that way about their fellow countrymen.
Trinis abroad trekking hundreds of miles to see the soca warriors is merely the following of a social trend that is born out of unity and a resulting festivity amongst a smal group foreign nationals. Take those expats and transplant them back in T&T, and my guess is vast majority will exhibit the same behavior observed amongst the current locals.
Good post, have not done a study, but knowing many people who have returned home after having lived abroad (NA, Europe etc) for > 5 years, they seem to fall into a different category (from a socialisation and national conciousness standpt) from those who never left, not placing one group above or below another in terms of sense of nationalism, merely re-stating and representing their opinions. Anyway, support warriors tomorrow!! We need points!! Who storming tomorrow? :rotfl:
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Transplant the current expats back to T&T and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current locals
Transplant the current locals into a foreign country and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current expats.
Ain't two different sets of people with different levels of support for T&T football or the country as a whole. It's on average the same people with the same ideals and the same love for T&T, just exhibiting different behavioral patterns that are dictated by their social environment.
The only difference in my opinion is in the sense of unity. Trinis abroad will unify with eachother on the basis of being compatriots. I don't sense that Trinis at home feel that way about their fellow countrymen.
Trinis abroad trekking hundreds of miles to see the soca warriors is merely the following of a social trend that is born out of unity and a resulting festivity amongst a smal group foreign nationals. Take those expats and transplant them back in T&T, and my guess is vast majority will exhibit the same behavior observed amongst the current locals.
most sensible post on this topic yet... :beermug:
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Transplant the current expats back to T&T and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current locals
Transplant the current locals into a foreign country and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current expats.
just fa dat I stayin forren den :devil:
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Wait... how 'frequent' are TnT World Cup qualifying home games? Those aren't "special events"? Significant games that supporters at home can make credible attempts to attend??
Even if you expand the universe of games to include non-WC qualifying home games, how frequent are those?
The games are a special events b/c the ex-pats who travel to games make them special events and treat them as such. I've previously addressed the issue of ex-pats who aren't concerned with the games... this is no different from Trinis living in Trinidad who also aren't concerned with football games. We're comparing fan base to fan base. Considering the cost and distance that many ex-pats encounter in travelling to support the Soca Warriors, imagine if supporters in TnT showed the same committment.
This one is bordering on a cricket vs football dicscusion because without actual numbers we can't make those comparisons You also have fans in TnT who also travel to follow the team, which is a greater sacrifice than travelling within the US.
I also don't understand how you could compare the commitment of 10-15000 people who attend more of the games to a smaller number. Even with the distance and cost argument everybody have options for their time and the sacrifices are made by only a selecte few foreign fans. Also the further away from the popular foreign bases of NY and TO the smaller the numbers get. So clearly even the committed foreign-based fans have their limits. In the past cycle we play about 7 games in FL, CA, MA, CT, IL and I would be suriprised if even half the US-based forum members went to half those games. My guess for teh average among forumites would be 1 game each. On the other hand most of the locals went to all.
It is easy for the foreign forumites to say "if I was home I would go to all games" but the locals could just as easiy imagine travelling all over the US once they already live in the country. Again as Kicker and I have said it is the same people in the fan base just in a different country.
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thats bullshit, just like your story how yuh storm glow in germany :devil: when it was meh padnah who storm and yuh thief the man storm story oui :o
But wha de jail is this!! I have been besmirched!
TI mind how sullying my reputation as a stormer!!
Yuh crossing de line right dey... >:( >:(
yuh friggin lie :D rticulate storm the friggin party thru the curtain, you pay your money, next ting yuh see meh brethren run up the stairs and yuh bawl out " is storm yuh storm" lol now go run along with yuh tail between yuh damn legs... yuh ent storm no friggin glow
FF, is tief yuh tief de man storm story :rotfl: This thread is too much kix
You studying TI?
You self bounce up me and bobby as we come in dey hot and sweaty... is me and bobby we talking bout here...
steups dis fawking TI.. me ent know he and he pardner from Adam...
whey Bally?
Doh study it, even doh ah did not see yuh storm, as soon as we bounce up in de fete yuh had tell meh dat you and Bobby storm, is a funny one doh, yuh tief de man storm story, only Trinbagonians :beermug:
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Transplant the current expats back to T&T and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current locals
Transplant the current locals into a foreign country and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current expats.
Ain't two different sets of people with different levels of support for T&T football or the country as a whole. It's on average the same people with the same ideals and the same love for T&T, just exhibiting different behavioral patterns that are dictated by their social environment.
The only difference in my opinion is in the sense of unity. Trinis abroad will unify with eachother on the basis of being compatriots. I don't sense that Trinis at home feel that way about their fellow countrymen.
Trinis abroad trekking hundreds of miles to see the soca warriors is merely the following of a social trend that is born out of unity and a resulting festivity amongst a smal group foreign nationals. Take those expats and transplant them back in T&T, and my guess is vast majority will exhibit the same behavior observed amongst the current locals.
There is simply no logic to this whatsoever. The first half of the post is speculative, as you have no way of knowing how either group would respond in their transplanted location. The second reduces the support of the ex-pats as a "trend". I can't speak of everyone, but the Trinis I know who follow football outside of Trinidad don't suddenly become football fans as soon as they set foot in America... and they sure as hell don't need to travel hundreds of miles or spend hundreds of dollars on travel and accommodation just to lime.
There are many liming opportunities outside of the random football match, and I don't just mean small limes with de fellas. I hardly doubt that anybody on this forum who heading to Nashville going just because it having ah lime... of course the opportunity to lime is part of the allure, but they going to see the game first and foremost. The average fan I know here in the US (non-forumites) may be slightly less passionate, or just as passionate as any forumite on here... and I'm sure we all could say the same. How many people do you know honestly only travelling to a match because of the lime? More likely if they're not a football fan they'd just as soon stay home... and catch up on de liming at the next fete or regional Carnival.
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Transplant the current expats back to T&T and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current locals
Transplant the current locals into a foreign country and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current expats.
Ain't two different sets of people with different levels of support for T&T football or the country as a whole. It's on average the same people with the same ideals and the same love for T&T, just exhibiting different behavioral patterns that are dictated by their social environment.
The only difference in my opinion is in the sense of unity. Trinis abroad will unify with eachother on the basis of being compatriots. I don't sense that Trinis at home feel that way about their fellow countrymen.
Trinis abroad trekking hundreds of miles to see the soca warriors is merely the following of a social trend that is born out of unity and a resulting festivity amongst a smal group foreign nationals. Take those expats and transplant them back in T&T, and my guess is vast majority will exhibit the same behavior observed amongst the current locals.
Kicker yuh right and I will tell yuh that even the unity aspect of foreign life depends on your location.
I remember moving ot school in a location with not many Trinbagonians. From the time yuh hear a fellow Caribbean accent yuh introduce yourself, strike up a convo, and make plans to get together. I am talking about Bajans, Jakans and Guyanese too.
Make a trip to NY or another metro area with a strong Caribbean presence and it is a different story. If you hear and accent and ask if they from TnT or the Caribbean yuh very likely to get a "Yeah, So?". People just don't yearn as much for making new connections because, by comparison to a remote area, you encounter people with similar heritage much more often.
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This one is bordering on a cricket vs football dicscusion because without actual numbers we can't make those comparisons You also have fans in TnT who also travel to follow the team, which is a greater sacrifice than travelling within the US.
How is it a greater sacrifice?
I also don't understand how you could compare the commitment of 10-15000 people who attend more of the games to a smaller number.
I'm talking per capita. I don't know how many ex-pats living in the US, but I'd be surprised if it even approaches 500,000. So in your example 1% of the population on average attends a local qualifier. It's possible that there's less than 5000 supporters on average at the qualifiers I suppose, but I doubt it.
Even with the distance and cost argument everybody have options for their time and the sacrifices are made by only a selecte few foreign fans.
And the sacrifices are only made by 1% of the local population... that too is a 'select few', no? And other than cost... what is their excuse?
Also the further away from the popular foreign bases of NY and TO the smaller the numbers get. So clearly even the committed foreign-based fans have their limits.
Of course people have limits... the point isn't to show how well the foreign-based supporters TRAVEL, the point is to show how well they support on average. The fact remains that nobody in Trinidad have the navigate the logistic hurdles that many foreign-based supporters have to navigate.
In the past cycle we play about 7 games in FL, CA, MA, CT, IL and I would be suriprised if even half the US-based forum members went to half those games. My guess for teh average among forumites would be 1 game each. On the other hand most of the locals went to all.
Yeah but I'm sure the Trini section wasn't just comprised of the foreign-based forumites... there were other non-forumite Trinis in attendance, so I'm not sure if your sample of just the forumites is really helpful.
It is easy for the foreign forumites to say "if I was home I would go to all games" but the locals could just as easiy imagine travelling all over the US once they already live in the country. Again as Kicker and I have said it is the same people in the fan base just in a different country.
Really? What's preventing them from travelling all over Trinidad now? I for one have seen man on here say they not travelling to Mannie Ramjohn to watch no football match... that too far. And don't get me wrong... if ah man have trouble getting to and from the game I could understand that, but again... why men cyah hire ah maxi? One obvious reason would be that people eh see de need to go thru all ah dat, or there's isn't enough interest to do so.
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I'm not sure that there is really a concrete basis for comparison here as T&T games away from home are special events: significant games that an expat can make credible attempts to attend come up relatively infrequently and so it is natural that a special effort would be made.
In fact, it have plenty trinis living in the states who are completely oblivious to the fact that we in the hex. If we still in contention with only a couple games to go however...
Wait... how 'frequent' are TnT World Cup qualifying home games? Those aren't "special events"? Significant games that supporters at home can make credible attempts to attend??
Even if you expand the universe of games to include non-WC qualifying home games, how frequent are those?
The games are a special events b/c the ex-pats who travel to games make them special events and treat them as such. I've previously addressed the issue of ex-pats who aren't concerned with the games... this is no different from Trinis living in Trinidad who also aren't concerned with football games. We're comparing fan base to fan base. Considering the cost and distance that many ex-pats encounter in travelling to support the Soca Warriors, imagine if supporters in TnT showed the same committment.
well, I see that the comments that kicker has made in the interim serve well in answering this. In fact I think JDB was already making points in that direction beforehand.
your definition of fan base is very convenient but more importantly inconsistent.
for example, Plenty of the "fan base" who was in Hartford in '05 weren't fans: they just get a good deal on bus ride from Brooklyn and figured that the lime woulda be nice.
In any case, If you want to focus on the small fraction of the diaspora that will make a trip to Hartford or Nashville then it's only fair that we take care to compare them to a genuinely analogous group of home-based fans. Don't act as if it doh have significant numbers of local fans who does go every game, rain or shine, Manny Ramjohn or Hasely Crawford. Not only that but some local-based fans go to great lengths to see the team play overseas.
How much of the people going Nashville woulda make that particular trip if they knew it had 4 more Hex games on US soil in the next few months? My guess is that most people woulda pick the one (maybe two) most convenient.
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Transplant the current expats back to T&T and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current locals
Transplant the current locals into a foreign country and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current expats.
Ain't two different sets of people with different levels of support for T&T football or the country as a whole. It's on average the same people with the same ideals and the same love for T&T, just exhibiting different behavioral patterns that are dictated by their social environment.
The only difference in my opinion is in the sense of unity. Trinis abroad will unify with eachother on the basis of being compatriots. I don't sense that Trinis at home feel that way about their fellow countrymen.
Trinis abroad trekking hundreds of miles to see the soca warriors is merely the following of a social trend that is born out of unity and a resulting festivity amongst a smal group foreign nationals. Take those expats and transplant them back in T&T, and my guess is vast majority will exhibit the same behavior observed amongst the current locals.
Kicker yuh right and I will tell yuh that even the unity aspect of foreign life depends on your location.
I remember moving ot school in a location with not many Trinbagonians. From the time yuh hear a fellow Caribbean accent yuh introduce yourself, strike up a convo, and make plans to get together. I am talking about Bajans, Jakans and Guyanese too.
Make a trip to NY or another metro area with a strong Caribbean presence and it is a different story. If you hear and accent and ask if they from TnT or the Caribbean yuh very likely to get a "Yeah, So?". People just don't yearn as much for making new connections because, by comparison to a remote area, you encounter people with similar heritage much more often.
Extending your logic, that should mean that foreign-based football fans living away from the WI hubs would be more passionate about supporting at the games, no? You're conflating the issue, we not talking about the entire universe of Trinis living in America, we're talking about Soca Warrior fans living in America... we've already established that some wouldn't care about the games (the equivalent of the apathetic NYers in your example). But the ones who passionate about supporting (akin to the Trini living where there are few WI's) they usually go out of their way to show their support.
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well, I see that the comments that kicker has made in the interim serve well in answering this. In fact I think JDB was already making points in that direction beforehand.
your definition of fan base is very convenient but more importantly inconsistent.
How is my definition of fan base "convenient" or "inconsistent"... fan base is fan base. It's the same definition I have been using throughout... if you see some inconsistency then feel free to point it out. Fan base= fans of the Soca Warriors. I don't see what's so convenient about that definition.
I'm not sure how either Kicker or JDB answered by response vis-a-vis WC qualifying away games being "special events" and WC qualifyign home games not... as is your implication.
for example, Plenty of the "fan base" who was in Hartford in '05 weren't fans: they just get a good deal on bus ride from Brooklyn and figured that the lime woulda be nice.
Well I wasn't there myself, but I imagine that you had some way of telling who were fans compared to who just went along fuh de ride because they get ah good deal.
In any case, If you want to focus on the small fraction of the diaspora that will make a trip to Hartford or Nashville then it's only fair that we take care to compare them to a genuinely analogous group of home-based fans. Don't act as if it doh have significant numbers of local fans who does go every game, rain or shine, Manny Ramjohn or Hasely Crawford. Not only that but some local-based fans go to great lengths to see the team play overseas.
If you were paying attention you'd see that I actually did take those into consideration... we have proof of that "significant" number right here in the presence of the WN members like Big/Small Mag, brownsugar et al who doh miss ah game. But using JDB's figures, they still only account for 1% of the local population on average.
How much of the people going Nashville woulda make that particular trip if they knew it had 4 more Hex games on US soil in the next few months? My guess is that most people woulda pick the one (maybe two) most convenient.
I could similarly guess and say that all would attend all... but not sure how such speculation advances the discussion any.
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kicker and others have misread the issue..We are not talking bout all the Trinis who living foreign...we know there are Trinis who living foreign that will go to the game just for the lime like here in Trini, but are they fans??...I thought the debate was about fans...The debate is about Foreign based T&T fans vs Local based T&T fans..who are more passionate?..who would go the extra mile, pay the extra dollar, yell that extra chant to support de team...
My family living foreign are more passionate than half of de people dat does go to the games here..
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kicker and others have misread the issue..We are not talking bout all the Trinis who living foreign...we know there are Trinis who living foreign that will go to the game just for the lime like here in Trini, but are they fans??...I thought the debate was about fans...The debate is about Foreign based T&T fans vs Local based T&T fans..who are more passionate?..who would go the extra mile, pay the extra dollar, yell that extra chant to support de team...
My family living foreign are more passionate than half of de people dat does go to the games here..
that is the way I took this debate, that forren seem more supportive/passionate
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just a few observations..
Alot of people i know are going to Nashville just because they know the lime will be good. They does call me regular to ask me who on the side, who coaching it, who we playing onit, how much points we have etc.. They dont know anybody on the side after Yorke, Latas, Stern and Carlos. I even have a partner who cant get off work in time but want to still fly down for the after parties..
But they probably will make plenty noise once there though. Does this make them any more of a fervent supporter than the man at home who will damage his paycheck for every TnT game to go and sit down quiet and take in some ball? I thinks not...
They will make noise because a Trinidad game in the US is a once in 2-4 years opportunity to group up with fellow trinis and see the side in a genuinely competitive fixture. Counter that with the numerous competitive games and friendlies available at home and its really not such a big deal.
As a side bar.. Consider that when you go to international carnivals like Notting Hill and Labor Day, the wildness and behaviour does be uncontrolled and to a next level. i see some shit in the streets go down that i don't even see in Trinidad in the most ghettoranious jouvert ban, and this is from some supposedly higher class expats.
Its the same as the football, its because they missing it they will overdo more than your Trini at home who have that available to him/her anytime and doh feel the same motivation to wild up themselves.
Another thing I notice consistently is that the side does not give the crowd impetus to get into it in the opening stages of games. Plenty laziness, slow build up, give away ball etc does set the mood for steupsing and frustration.. Even in the big passionate stadiums we speak of, the lack of quality will dishearten the crowd. Couple that with the fact that our culture is a laid back but very discerning and critical one and you have the tennis match atmosphere setting in.
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PS: don't ever fool yourself into thinking that the people who post on this board constitute the most diehard fans of T&T football.
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There is simply no logic to this whatsoever. The first half of the post is speculative, as you have no way of knowing how either group would respond in their transplanted location.
I disagree as we have examples of expats who have gone back home. Also most of the foreign based that you think are more committed are just local-based that were transplanted.
But like I said this ent going nowhere. Without numbers for population and a metric for "effort required to see a game" we can't determine committment. Ultimately it is not getting us anywhere because I think we all agree that the overall numbers will always be better at home so TI's suggestion that support would be 100% better does not hold water. Whatever this elusive number for "per capita representation" is it has not resulted in better support abroad than at home.
TI lay a land-mine and dust it out the scene.
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jdb always arguing the opposite end of my posts, he is known for it throughout the years of posting, not a surprise, yet none of these guys have admitted a game in an area where there is trinis of substantial numbers and i not talking about nashville sah, people still avoiding that talk bc they know im right;
dont get me wrong i love watching meh warriors in trini but the crowd sorf home, alot of them people there for the lime or status, or posing, not the game, allyuh face it, despite i love being home and i love meh country, but facts is facts, if you put the game in new york or toronto, it would be madness for a wcq.
JDB's postings are usually well thought out, well structured and reasonable, so that is no surprise!
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: FF, Play nice!
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Transplant the current expats back to T&T and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current locals
Transplant the current locals into a foreign country and they will exhibit the same behavior as the current expats.
Ain't two different sets of people with different levels of support for T&T football or the country as a whole. It's on average the same people with the same ideals and the same love for T&T, just exhibiting different behavioral patterns that are dictated by their social environment.
The only difference in my opinion is in the sense of unity. Trinis abroad will unify with eachother on the basis of being compatriots. I don't sense that Trinis at home feel that way about their fellow countrymen.
Trinis abroad trekking hundreds of miles to see the soca warriors is merely the following of a social trend that is born out of unity and a resulting festivity amongst a smal group foreign nationals. Take those expats and transplant them back in T&T, and my guess is vast majority will exhibit the same behavior observed amongst the current locals.
There is simply no logic to this whatsoever. The first half of the post is speculative, as you have no way of knowing how either group would respond in their transplanted location. The second reduces the support of the ex-pats as a "trend".
Of course it's speculative.....and show me where I even hint at trying to deny that...and show me where anyone else has referenced any hard facts or sound logic in this ole talk steupss...lol. This entire thread is full of casual observations, ole talk and guesswork and I was just chiming in with a 2 cents...BWDJ.
And where all that setta talk about lime come from? I say anything about travelling long distances to lime? I talked about a social trend. The social trend in my post is the unifying of compatriots in a foreign land...very often to take part in activities that have ties to the home country (T&T). I think expats going to Nashville to see the soca warriors follows a social trend as much as it is a reflection of the love for football among expats....and yes that is speculation based on my experience.
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There is simply no logic to this whatsoever. The first half of the post is speculative, as you have no way of knowing how either group would respond in their transplanted location.
I disagree as we have examples of expats who have gone back home. Also most of the foreign based that you think are more committed are just local-based that were transplanted.
But like I said this ent going nowhere. Without numbers for population and a metric for "effort required to see a game" we can't determine committment. Ultimately it is not getting us anywhere because I think we all agree that the overall numbers will always be better at home so TI's suggestion that support would be 100% better does not hold water. Whatever this elusive number for "per capita representation" is it has not resulted in better support abroad than at home.
TI lay a land-mine and dust it out the scene.
come nuh man... that statement make any kinda sense tuh you? lol
Of course most of the foreign-based ("ex-pats") are locals who are transplanted.
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Of course it's speculative.....and show me where I even hint at trying to deny that...and show me where anyone else has referenced any hard facts or sound logic in this ole talk steupss...lol. This entire thread is full of casual observations, ole talk and guesswork and I was just chiming in with a 2 cents...BWDJ.
I didn't see too much guesswork and speculation once the talk moved away from TI and he inflammatory nonsense. In fact there was much "sound logic" being proffered, was just a matter of whether one agreed or disagreed with it... but whatever floats yuh boat.
And where all that setta talk about lime come from? I say anything about travelling long distances to lime? I talked about a social trend. The social trend in my post is the unifying of compatriots in a foreign land...very often to take part in activities that have ties to the home country (T&T). I think expats going to Nashville to see the soca warriors follows a social trend as much as it is a reflection of the love for football among expats....and yes that is speculation based on my experience.
My bad... I see yuh say that Trinis abroad who travelling to the games do so out of a "sense of unity and the resulting festivity" that comes with a small group. I interpret that to mean that they travelling just to bond or for the bonding aspect of being amonst their fellow compatriots.
If yuh going not for the primary purpose for which the group has gathered, but rather to simply be a part of the group... where I from, we does call dat liming.
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kicker and others have misread the issue..We are not talking bout all the Trinis who living foreign...we know there are Trinis who living foreign that will go to the game just for the lime like here in Trini, but are they fans??...I thought the debate was about fans...The debate is about Foreign based T&T fans vs Local based T&T fans..who are more passionate?..who would go the extra mile, pay the extra dollar, yell that extra chant to support de team...
My family living foreign are more passionate than half of de people dat does go to the games here..
If that is the issue then you can only compare apples to apples. Giving the foreign based points for the fact that they have to travel longer distances to see the team really is not a fair comparison.
A fairer comparison would be something like Germany where both parties had significant hurdles to overcome to get there, and guess what, both were well represented. Or even the many trips we make to Mexico and CR every qualifying series where neither group is well-represented (although Patriot usually there).
come nuh man... that statement make any kinda sense tuh you? lol
Of course most of the foreign-based ("ex-pats") are locals who are transplanted.
So why yuh believe that we have no way of knowing how transplanted locals would respond to their location? It seems to me that you are the one saying that they would be more "committed", which is kicker's point exactly. The whole "committment" or travelling long distances to see games is just a result of circumstances/opportunity.
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How i see it is this.
De general debate or discussion hovering basically on the eagerness to support of locals vs expats. One could argue that generally, Trini's like to support when things going good..and eh bothering themselves when things eh so good. A local might ponder and consider all the dynamics of going..and den say...steups..me eh able to go and dem fellas play shit nah...and keep he tail home. Even when they do go.....some might jus view it as going to watch football..not necessarily support. The expats however..from what i think.....miss home and so eager to identify with anything from home that they patronise it in large amounts. They might hear a place selling coconut water...or doubles or roti or someting...and patronise it.....not even complaining as much about the quality...dey jus damn glad to get something from home. I was considering when Trindad and Tobago played Iceland in England.....although they might not be that fair to equate, because by that time everybody was on the bandwaggon since we had already qualified..but i still think that locals might more find it incumbent on them to participate...if only to experience something from home. To those foreign based who saying the atmosphere does be different cuz :
for example ah normal football lime to watch T&T play in toronto or new york, music blasting, riddum section, women wining during the match, people bawling, nobody quiet, drinks passing, ole talk passing, people chanting, yuh dont even need to hear commentary, yuh listening to the talk right dey.
Based on that i would think that allyuh went a bar and taking in the game. Even if this was at a live game...how dis different from home? Yuh cyar be playing music from the DJ during the game at the game itself. De riddim section is a staple...depending on de vibes waist might be pelting or not....yuh go get ole talk etc. But......de major drawing factor is the fact that the expats would strive to enjoy it more because they miss home. When allyuh meet up for live games..wha allyuh does do different? Allyuh does sing chants and ting throughout the game? Or allyuh does jus more enjoy de lime?
Think of it like this...yuh have 5 green balls in a set of 100 balls..but all the green together. Compare how that would look to the same 5 green balls in a set of 50 but spread out throughout the 50. I trying to relate it to abroad....allyuh expats go plan...try to sit down in de same section and lime and ting..all ah allyuh full well intend to enjoy de lime and allyuh making it happen. Allyuh might stand out...especially in a foreign environment...because guess wha....allyuh unique...allyuh more identifiable as Trinis. Locally..yuh might have yuh diehards.....buh...in comparison to those who on a posing scene....it different. Most trinis would find it exceptionally difficult to be as vocal and boisterous in bad times as they are in good. If for example...when it was realised that we couldnt have qualified for 2002 world cup....and the games were played away jus for the gate returns..wha yuh think mighta happen? Yeh yuh might get it sell out..because dem doh get games so. But if all the games were played there....i think yuh might have a drop off. Dis topic isnt really one dat could be determined beyond all shadow of a doubt....buh in my opinion...de expats would make sure to enjoy the moment more because they not sure when next they might get something like that. But thats just how I see it.
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kicker and others have misread the issue..We are not talking bout all the Trinis who living foreign...we know there are Trinis who living foreign that will go to the game just for the lime like here in Trini, but are they fans??...I thought the debate was about fans...The debate is about Foreign based T&T fans vs Local based T&T fans..who are more passionate?..who would go the extra mile, pay the extra dollar, yell that extra chant to support de team...
My family living foreign are more passionate than half of de people dat does go to the games here..
If that is the issue then you can only compare apples to apples. Giving the foreign based points for the fact that they have to travel longer distances to see the team really is not a fair comparison.
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..didnt you see that was one example out of many that could have been used...why didnt you address the other examples i wrote and didnt bother to write..and its not comparing apples with apples..its acknowledging the obvious passion one group has more than de other towards their football team
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If that is the issue then you can only compare apples to apples. Giving the foreign based points for the fact that they have to travel longer distances to see the team really is not a fair comparison.
A fairer comparison would be something like Germany where both parties had significant hurdles to overcome to get there, and guess what, both were well represented. Or even the many trips we make to Mexico and CR every qualifying series where neither group is well-represented (although Patriot usually there).
It's not just about the "oh they travel further therefore they more committed"... is more like IN SPITE OF the distances they come out in significant numbers and support. That is committment. Not many locals show that. If man in Trinidad had to pay a comparative amount to travel to the games, and have to arrange overnight stay etc. How many of your 10,000 you think would show up? Hypothetical/speculative, yes... but think about it.
So why yuh believe that we have no way of knowing how transplanted locals would respond to their location? It seems to me that you are the one saying that they would be more "committed", which is kicker's point exactly.
Uh uh... think of his other statements as well then maybe you'll understand my position. Why does Kicker (and by extension, you) believe that if you put one of these foreign-based fans back home that his support of the warriors would fall off? Now maybe you'll understand why I say it's speculative to say "yes, if you take the ex-pat back home he'll become just as the average local fan".
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How i see it is this.
De general debate or discussion hovering basically on the eagerness to support of locals vs expats. One could argue that generally, Trini's like to support when things going good..and eh bothering themselves when things eh so good. A local might ponder and consider all the dynamics of going..and den say...steups..me eh able to go and dem fellas play shit nah...and keep he tail home. Even when they do go.....some might jus view it as going to watch football..not necessarily support. The expats however..from what i think.....miss home and so eager to identify with anything from home that they patronise it in large amounts. They might hear a place selling coconut water...or doubles or roti or someting...and patronise it.....not even complaining as much about the quality...dey jus damn glad to get something from home. I was considering when Trindad and Tobago played Iceland in England.....although they might not be that fair to equate, because by that time everybody was on the bandwaggon since we had already qualified..but i still think that locals might more find it incumbent on them to participate...if only to experience something from home. To those foreign based who saying the atmosphere does be different cuz :
for example ah normal football lime to watch T&T play in toronto or new york, music blasting, riddum section, women wining during the match, people bawling, nobody quiet, drinks passing, ole talk passing, people chanting, yuh dont even need to hear commentary, yuh listening to the talk right dey.
Based on that i would think that allyuh went a bar and taking in the game. Even if this was at a live game...how dis different from home? Yuh cyar be playing music from the DJ during the game at the game itself. De riddim section is a staple...depending on de vibes waist might be pelting or not....yuh go get ole talk etc. But......de major drawing factor is the fact that the expats would strive to enjoy it more because they miss home. When allyuh meet up for live games..wha allyuh does do different? Allyuh does sing chants and ting throughout the game? Or allyuh does jus more enjoy de lime?
Think of it like this...yuh have 5 green balls in a set of 100 balls..but all the green together. Compare how that would look to the same 5 green balls in a set of 50 but spread out throughout the 50. I trying to relate it to abroad....allyuh expats go plan...try to sit down in de same section and lime and ting..all ah allyuh full well intend to enjoy de lime and allyuh making it happen. Allyuh might stand out...especially in a foreign environment...because guess wha....allyuh unique...allyuh more identifiable as Trinis. Locally..yuh might have yuh diehards.....buh...in comparison to those who on a posing scene....it different. Most trinis would find it exceptionally difficult to be as vocal and boisterous in bad times as they are in good. If for example...when it was realised that we couldnt have qualified for 2002 world cup....and the games were played away jus for the gate returns..wha yuh think mighta happen? Yeh yuh might get it sell out..because dem doh get games so. But if all the games were played there....i think yuh might have a drop off. Dis topic isnt really one dat could be determined beyond all shadow of a doubt....buh in my opinion...de expats would make sure to enjoy the moment more because they not sure when next they might get something like that. But thats just how I see it.
Plenty sense here. And I think yuh actually find a way to find common ground to both ends of the conversation regarding foreign based... they going for both the game and the lime. An opportunity to connect with something back home.
Local based may not feel the need to go thru all ah dat fuh ah game.
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How is my definition of fan base "convenient" or "inconsistent"... fan base is fan base. It's the same definition I have been using throughout... if you see some inconsistency then feel free to point it out. Fan base= fans of the Soca Warriors. I don't see what's so convenient about that definition.
as far as the US-based are concerned, you are defining the fan-base to be precisely the set of people who willing to go to great lengths to see the team live. Or some relatively tight superset of that group. So either your argument is circular in that you're effectively assuming the conclusion or it's inconsistent in that you aren't imposing the same restriction on the local fan base.
Well I wasn't there myself, but I imagine that you had some way of telling who were fans compared to who just went along fuh de ride because they get ah good deal.
some of those people happened to be my close friends and family.
Not only that, but imagine in the carpark afterward I hearing somebody saying "that number 19 was the only player for us who could make a pass".
If you were paying attention you'd see that I actually did take those into consideration... we have proof of that "significant" number right here in the presence of the WN members like Big/Small Mag, brownsugar et al who doh miss ah game. But using JDB's figures, they still only account for 1% of the local population on average.
you wouldn't happen to have an estimate of what % of Trinis living in the US make great effort to go to games would you? or maybe this is another area in which you'd prefer not to speculate.
I could similarly guess and say that all would attend all... but not sure how such speculation advances the discussion any.
well, I'll leave that one to anybody still interested in reading this thread to decide which is the more reasonable assumption.
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It's not just about the "oh they travel further therefore they more committed"... is more like IN SPITE OF the distances they come out in significant numbers and support. That is committment. Not many locals show that. If man in Trinidad had to pay a comparative amount to travel to the games, and have to arrange overnight stay etc. How many of your 10,000 you think would show up? Hypothetical/speculative, yes... but think about it.
I will admit that I haven't read everything in the thread particularly carefully but just curious: you have an explanation for this different alleged behaviour among local and foreign fans?
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My bad... I see yuh say that Trinis abroad who travelling to the games do so out of a "sense of unity and the resulting festivity" that comes with a small group. I interpret that to mean that they travelling just to bond or for the bonding aspect of being amonst their fellow compatriots.
If yuh going not for the primary purpose for which the group has gathered, but rather to simply be a part of the group... where I from, we does call dat liming.
Someone could be a football fan, yet a major catalyst to them going to support the warriors could be "a sense of unity and the resulting festivity" among a group of foreign nationals...."liming" per se and the love for sport are not necessarily mutually exclusive as your response seems to imply.
I think a major difference between the way support for the warriors is garnered at home and how it is garnered overseas is that sense of unity (which to me not only motivates a greater effort to participate, but a greater degree of festivity with which support is given). That unity, in my opinion seems to be missing at home.....
That's my point- you call it illogical & speculative...ok..
If yuh disagree with that, cool...I'd like to hear how you account for the difference, unless you think that expats by design are just of a more of a lively, supportive and passionate breed.
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It's not just about the "oh they travel further therefore they more committed"... is more like IN SPITE OF the distances they come out in significant numbers and support. That is committment. Not many locals show that. If man in Trinidad had to pay a comparative amount to travel to the games, and have to arrange overnight stay etc. How many of your 10,000 you think would show up? Hypothetical/speculative, yes... but think about it.
Once we start the speculation it really is not comparing the same thing because the circumstances are so different. Long drives, plane flights and high prices for entertainment really is not that uncommon in US culture. The same fans that do it for football games probably do it for weddings, concerts and other events. Saying that willingness to make a long trip is a sign of ingrained commitment is like saying that I love Roti more than anybody else because I drive 3 hrs to NYC to buy one, twice a year.
Trying to equate it to TnT is as bad as discounting the large number of TnT fans based on the shorter distance that they travel. Games away from POS are not attended as well but we see a similar drop-off for games away from NYC. The much smaller number that travels to TN, CA and IL is not representative of the foreign fan base, just as the locals who will not make it to the Mannie does not represent the entire local fan base.
But why do we have to speculate. As I said we have well attended games in Germany by both sets of fans and poorly attended games by both sets of fans in Central America to compare the TnT vs US based by more level measures. Not much difference between the two.
Uh uh... think of his other statements as well then maybe you'll understand my position. Why does Kicker (and by extension, you) believe that if you put one of these foreign-based fans back home that his support of the warriors would fall off? Now maybe you'll understand why I say it's speculative to say "yes, if you take the ex-pat back home he'll become just as the average local fan".
It was never my assertion that a foreign-based fan's support will fall off. I actually think (and know of several examples)that a committed supporter would remain as such, whereas the average supporter would do likewise. Surely you are not saying that the fans who travel all over the US are common among ex-pats. For the same reason people who showed a casual interest at home are pretty much the same abroad. If they travel a greater distance it is not because they automatically become a more committed football fan.
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There is simply no logic to this whatsoever. The first half of the post is speculative, as you have no way of knowing how either group would respond in their transplanted location.
I disagree as we have examples of expats who have gone back home. Also most of the foreign based that you think are more committed are just local-based that were transplanted.
But like I said this ent going nowhere. Without numbers for population and a metric for "effort required to see a game" we can't determine committment. Ultimately it is not getting us anywhere because I think we all agree that the overall numbers will always be better at home so TI's suggestion that support would be 100% better does not hold water. Whatever this elusive number for "per capita representation" is it has not resulted in better support abroad than at home.
TI lay a land-mine and dust it out the scene.
I will sum up some points in regards to all that was said in this post, there are many local based supporters who are die hards yes, some of which attend matches and support and some of which who dont, who are not as vocal. There are many categories of supporters in trinidad, some who only go footbal matches close by and some who are willing to travel the distance to see their team play.
Foreign based are used to long distances, for example in the greater toronto area, it is not out of the ordinary to drive 30-50 kms to another city, or take the highway to reach a certain destination, its normal, its apart of north american life, in the US its the same in major cities where many trinis congregate and settle. So when we come back home, its hard for us foreign based to conceive a real die hard football supporter not travelling to manny ramjohn or coming up to hasley or marvin lee.
Hence, thats why you see so many expats driving and flying to this nashville game, it has become a way of life in north america.
Another factor that must also be considered is in toronto, people ask you where are you from if you are not native or caucasian, simply because there are so many immigrants and canada promotes multiculturism, you are strongly urged to show your culture which makes up the nation. So when something trini is happening, its a big thing, trinis up here are very patriotic, every weekend there are several soca/chutney parties, limes all over the gta, its normal, when trinidad playing, people watch the games all over the gta, it almost becomes apart of you to support your culture.
Dont get me wrong, tt is the best atmosphere, its my home, but recently while attending many tt games, it has dawned to me, that it wouldnt kill our footballing culture if games were played in major cities where the trinbagonian population is highly concentrated, barring in mind the support at wcq games has been sub standard.
Many factors contribute to the poor support, for example, many trinis only support the team when they are winning, its almost like a fad for them, once it in style they are supporters, once the lime is boss, they are in attendance, its almost treated as a status symbol. Then you have part of the population who doesnt play football or who cares about it for many reasons. Then theres the supporters, some who attend all the time, some who only attend if certain players on the team as touches has been noted to do on many occasions and some who dont attend if the match is played at a certain venue that they dont like or are too lazy to go there.
Now you have the foreign based, in north america and england, where we are the minority, we are encouraged to display our culture, we travel long distances on a regular basis in most cases, driving an hour to see trinidad play is not a problem, hell even flying to trinidad is not a problem, of course we have the people who go to the games for the lime, but its not a status thing, its not a fad to us up here, its either a lime or love for your football, either way the venue is packed and people support. That is a big difference.
In reagrds to numbers it was reported the US has over 250 000 trinis, canada has over 150 000 and england over 110 000, so when people tell me, bmo field or giants stadium cant ram out with trinis, it really makes me wonder if they know the stats.
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so where would we place those fans who have strong support for the team but due to MANY circumstances (money, family and such) are not able to attend many matches, no matter where those matches are?
I am sure that there are local and forren fans in that boat
or they do not fit into this debate?
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There is simply no logic to this whatsoever. The first half of the post is speculative, as you have no way of knowing how either group would respond in their transplanted location.
I
TI lay a land-mine and dust it out the scene.
I will sum up some points in regards to all that was said in this post, there are many local based supporters who are die hards yes, some of which attend matches and support and some of whice who dont, who are not as vocal. There are many categories of supporters in trinidad, some who only go footbal matches close by and some who are willing to travel the distance to see their team play.
Foreign based are used to long distances, for example in the greater toronto area, it is not out of the ordinary to drive 30-50 kms to another city, or take the highway to reach a certain destination that reuqires to travel via highway, its normal, its apart of north american life, in the US its the same in major cities where many trinis congregate and settle. So when we come back home, its hard for us foreign based to conceive a real die hard football supporter not travelling to manny ramjohn or coming up to hasley or marvin lee. Hence, thats why you see so many expats driving and flying to this nashville game, it has become a way of life in north america.
I really want to read the responses to this post..we have so called fans here in trini who complaining that games in Tobago and down south TOO FAR ..lol what a joke... and then have the nerve to talk aboiut passion....
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so where would we place those fans who have strong support for the team but due to MANY circumstances (money, family and such) are not able to attend many matches, no matter where those matches are?
I am sure that there are local and forren fans in that boat
or they do not fit into this debate?
people who cant afford the games are excused, the ttff should make it cheaper to fans to see the games and forget money, think about the immense support that should be generated to support the team at home.
but then you have the flipside, foreign based catching dey ass to see games on the tv or a blurred internet feed, huddled around a computer, while locals home who have the money and time to go, dont even bother, wheres the so called passion?
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Yuh know....yuh does talk outta both sides of yuh mouth a lot. How yuh go say dis?
In all honesty, i have been too many games in hasley and also the oval, to tell you the truth, support home is sorf, real sorf...
Den say dis:
Dont get me wrong, tt is the best atmosphere, its my home, but recently while attending many tt games, it has dawned to me, that it wouldnt kill our footballing culture if games were played in major cities where the trinbagonian population is highly concentrated, barring in mind the support at wcq games has been sub standard.
Secondly....people notice de drop off attendance when games not held in de HCS...down south and central to be precise. Seriously....allyuh feel transportation easy to get down dey? If de game in Hansley Crawford...i could walk out to de Bus Route..reach City Gate...take a yellow band maxi..or if i early enough walk to de stadium. Same ting coming back. Compare dat to going Mannie Ramjohn. You know how much pressha it is to get transport to down dey? Unless yuh have yuh own vehicle....is a good run. Travelling eh easy..especially in de south land. Worse yet men hadda study how dey getting home..all dem ting does weigh in on yuh mind when yuh making a decision. When people does be saying here how south far and ting.....it eh far in terms of distance...it far when taking into consideration Trinidadian Roads. It doh have no interstate and ting...is a setta traffic...a setta bad road and a setta madness. Just weekend gone i make a run down Tabaquite....ah setta winding road and ting...rel pothole and ting....all dat go contribute to making it far..in de Trini sense of de word. Geographically..compared to the states...it eh far..buh is still a good pull.
Consider de traffic flow...on a mornings..heading to POS....is real traffic..if yuh heading down south is no scene...on afternoons de reverse happens. Now study if a man like me who living on the east west corridor decide i making a run manny ramjohn to go a game starting 7. Game finish like 9...it have any surity i could get transport home to reach home at a decent hour? Especially when yuh hearing a setta madness going on with PH car and ting. How much transport yuh getting out of Central and South dem kinda hours of de night? Transport would be a bit easier for de expats....de culture different out dey. Yuh could take a bus...yuh have a bus schedule published weeks in advance..and give or take 10 minutes de bus dey as promised. Yuh could travel by plane..by cab...in a relative degree of safety. How dat comparing to home? Worse yet when you one ah de few people you know who seriously passionate bout de team....in light of all those factors...you still might be considering it....you feel you getting anybody who just on de lime to go down dey and watch a friendly with no big name players? So yuh know for sure if yuh going...yuh goin by yuhself. All dem ting does temper men mood about it. Compare that to the attitude a foreign based who could get transport with relative surity...and know dat dey going and meet men who going and lime and make it worth it. Wha yuh feel go be de end result?
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Substitute "Nicaragua" with "T&T"... :devil: :devil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StrLE7_h_LU
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Saying that willingness to make a long trip is a sign of ingrained commitment is like saying that I love Roti more than anybody else because I drive 3 hrs to NYC to buy one, twice a year.
well I not saying I love roti more than anyone else, but I do make that 4 hour trek monthly an part of the draw is the roti an doubles shop in queens :rotfl: :rotfl:
but then you have the flipside, foreign based catching dey ass to see games on the tv or a blurred internet feed, huddled around a computer, while locals home who have the money and time to go, dont even bother, wheres the so called passion?
yep an when that feed start to lag an you miss part of the play an you standing in the middle of your living room cussin out road runner wit you trini bandana on you head an the trini flag hanging on the wall...well it very easy to get real passionate about the inability to see the game.
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Saying that willingness to make a long trip is a sign of ingrained commitment is like saying that I love Roti more than anybody else because I drive 3 hrs to NYC to buy one, twice a year.
and if yuh comin by Bake and Things on Church Ave..is a next 3 hours yuh hadda stand up in the line for that roti...
;D
Good Luck Tomorrow Fellas
Go Warriors !!
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as far as the US-based are concerned, you are defining the fan-base to be precisely the set of people who willing to go to great lengths to see the team live. Or some relatively tight superset of that group. So either your argument is circular in that you're effectively assuming the conclusion or it's inconsistent in that you aren't imposing the same restriction on the local fan base.
Really... I am? Where did I say such a thing? I said the fan base consists of those who are fans of the Soca Warriors... or did you miss that the first five times I said it? I made no qualification of the fan base... and in fact I said it includes many who can't make it to all the games, people like myself who can't make a mid-week trip to Nashville.
some of those people happened to be my close friends and family.
Not only that, but imagine in the carpark afterward I hearing somebody saying "that number 19 was the only player for us who could make a pass".
That's strange... I could have sworn you said "plenty" of that fan base... now you're saying you spoke specifically of your family and people you overheard making random comments in the parking lot. Either "plenty" of your relatives were in attendance or there were "plenty" in the parking lot displaying their ignorance as to who's wearing what. Not that that proves they were there just for the lime... but we'll leave it where it is.
you wouldn't happen to have an estimate of what % of Trinis living in the US make great effort to go to games would you? or maybe this is another area in which you'd prefer not to speculate.
That has already been addressed in an earlier post, there's no need for me to speculate.
well, I'll leave that one to anybody still interested in reading this thread to decide which is the more reasonable assumption.
What's reasonable to one man is outrageous to another... which is why I personally would rather not speculate.
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My bad... I see yuh say that Trinis abroad who travelling to the games do so out of a "sense of unity and the resulting festivity" that comes with a small group. I interpret that to mean that they travelling just to bond or for the bonding aspect of being amonst their fellow compatriots.
If yuh going not for the primary purpose for which the group has gathered, but rather to simply be a part of the group... where I from, we does call dat liming.
Someone could be a football fan, yet a major catalyst to them going to support the warriors could be "a sense of unity and the resulting festivity" among a group of foreign nationals...."liming" per se and the love for sport are not necessarily mutually exclusive as your response seems to imply.
I think a major difference between the way support for the warriors is garnered at home and how it is garnered overseas is that sense of unity (which to me not only motivates a greater effort to participate, but a greater degree of festivity with which support is given). That unity, in my opinion seems to be missing at home.....
That's my point- you call it illogical & speculative...ok..
If yuh disagree with that, cool...I'd like to hear how you account for the difference, unless you think that expats by design are just of a more of a lively, supportive and passionate breed.
Kicker, in a conversation about people travelling to football games you break out talk of people travelling for "unity and festivity" with no mention of the underlying sporting event which is the catalyst for the group outing in the first place. So if you thus make no mention of the sport but cite some other factor, is it not reasonable to conclude that you were positing one over the other? I'm not sure how you concluded that my position is that they're mutually exclusive.
I don't think your suggestion is illogical at all, I just don't think it's as big a motivating factor as you seem to posit it as. I look at it as people going primarily for the game and in part for the lime, as opposed to game/lime in equal parts... or lime and "oh yeah, they playing ah game... right?". If I had to hazard a guess I'd wager that the folks in the last category are few.
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Once we start the speculation it really is not comparing the same thing because the circumstances are so different. Long drives, plane flights and high prices for entertainment really is not that uncommon in US culture. The same fans that do it for football games probably do it for weddings, concerts and other events. Saying that willingness to make a long trip is a sign of ingrained commitment is like saying that I love Roti more than anybody else because I drive 3 hrs to NYC to buy one, twice a year.
No... it doesn't mean you love it more than every single other body out there... but you'd have to REALLLLL love roti to make a three-hour drive just to get some roti. If man had to ride ferry to Tobago just to get a roti he might only make dat trip twice ah year as well... if that. You crave the roti more so you willing to make the sacrifice. The local-based have other local food options that he might easily substitute instead of the roit.
Trying to equate it to TnT is as bad as discounting the large number of TnT fans based on the shorter distance that they travel. Games away from POS are not attended as well but we see a similar drop-off for games away from NYC.
Dred I see you mention that and I not sure where you getting that from. Have you ever been to a game in DC or California? How many people travelled to Chicago last time? Even if we see a similar drop off there are real challenges to people travelling for games here in the US. Not sure where you conclude that travelling great distances and and paying a high price for tix, travel and accommodations is more a function of American culture... as opposed to the passion of the supporters. By your logic we should be seeing people travelling just as far and paying similarly ridiculous prices to fete... which they don't. People might travel far for Miami or DC or Labor Day, but many that I know balk at paying Lara and Vale prices ($100-$150 US) for a fete.
I'm really not sure how you feel comfortable saying "yeah, people just travel far and deal with the expenses b/c dat's de American way... is not because they passionate about supporting de Soca Warriors".
The much smaller number that travels to TN, CA and IL is not representative of the foreign fan base, just as the locals who will not make it to the Mannie does not represent the entire local fan base.
Don't focus on the raw numbers at the game, look at the percent of the population that those fans represent. TI offered 250,000 US-based ex-pats. I saw a similar number recently, but for some reason I'm thinking it was closer to 300,000. Using 300,000 as the baseline US number, and 1million Trinis in TnT... again 1% of the overall population can be counted as diehard fans. There would have to be around 3,000 TnT fans or less on average at the US-based games for the representation to be the same. I think we easily surpass that.
But why do we have to speculate. As I said we have well attended games in Germany by both sets of fans and poorly attended games by both sets of fans in Central America to compare the TnT vs US based by more level measures. Not much difference between the two.
I'm really not sure you can use that as a gauge. The games in Germany were well-attended but I'm not sure how you could tell which fans came from the US and which from Trinidad. Again even conceding that the split was 50-50, and then nobody shows up on Central America... I'm not sure what that proves exactly. Having to leave the country imposes a whole range of limiting factors that I don't think we need to entertain. Maybe you could flesh out your idea a bit more.
It was never my assertion that a foreign-based fan's support will fall off.
That may not have been your assertion, but you were responding to a statement that I made... and made in response to that very position, as implied by kicker's statement.
I actually think (and know of several examples)that a committed supporter would remain as such, whereas the average supporter would do likewise. Surely you are not saying that the fans who travel all over the US are common among ex-pats. For the same reason people who showed a casual interest at home are pretty much the same abroad. If they travel a greater distance it is not because they automatically become a more committed football fan.
For the upteempth time... willingness to travel all over the US is common among the ex-pat FAN, not among the ex-pat. This is why I keep talking about the "fan-base" and not the entire universe of ex-pats resident in the US. I'm not sure why this point keeps escaping review. Compare that to the body of fans (tepid to diehard) in TnT, many FANS not travelling from Grande to Marabella to see a game. The attendance at that stadium bears it out. Yes it hard getting down there... but it just as hard for many to get on the road here and head to NY or DC for a game. The difference isn't "culture" as you reduced it to... the difference is more "mindset" as I see it... ex-pats have a greater resolve to not let a little thing like travel get in the way.
More on this in my response to Bourbon, below...
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Kicker, in a conversation about people travelling to football games you break out talk of people travelling for "unity and festivity" with no mention of the underlying sporting event which is the catalyst for the group outing in the first place. So if you thus make no mention of the sport but cite some other factor, is it not reasonable to conclude that you were positing one over the other? I'm not sure how you concluded that my position is that they're mutually exclusive.
I don't think your suggestion is illogical at all, I just don't think it's as big a motivating factor as you seem to posit it as. I look at it as people going primarily for the game and in part for the lime, as opposed to game/lime in equal parts... or lime and "oh yeah, they playing ah game... right?". If I had to hazard a guess I'd wager that the folks in the last category are few.
That's because I was holding the love for football as constant (I really don't believe that expat football fans love football more than local football fans- in my opinion, there's just no reason to believe that would/should be)
I was talking about the x factor that differentiates local from overseas support. Football is a constant on both sides of the equation- I figured that it's understood that football is the common denominator in the context of the discussion.
Hence:
The only difference in my opinion is in the sense of unity. Trinis abroad will unify with eachother on the basis of being compatriots. I don't sense that Trinis at home feel that way about their fellow countrymen.
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But I understand if some of the other language was kinda strong and such the gist got lost....
Anyways...I was never into the talk about who is more supportive than whom- I could see why overseas support appears to be relatively stronger than that of the locals but I'm not sure if you could definitively measure that. I was more interested in putting forth some thoughts on why the dynamic might be the way it is..... because I don't think that locals & foreign based are of a different breed- I think that there are social phenomena are at play here that segregate the behavior of the two groups (if there really is a difference at all)...and that was the point of my post.
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Secondly....people notice de drop off attendance when games not held in de HCS...down south and central to be precise. Seriously....allyuh feel transportation easy to get down dey? If de game in Hansley Crawford...i could walk out to de Bus Route..reach City Gate...take a yellow band maxi..or if i early enough walk to de stadium. Same ting coming back. Compare dat to going Mannie Ramjohn. You know how much pressha it is to get transport to down dey? Unless yuh have yuh own vehicle....is a good run. Travelling eh easy..especially in de south land. Worse yet men hadda study how dey getting home..all dem ting does weigh in on yuh mind when yuh making a decision. When people does be saying here how south far and ting.....it eh far in terms of distance...it far when taking into consideration Trinidadian Roads. It doh have no interstate and ting...is a setta traffic...a setta bad road and a setta madness. Just weekend gone i make a run down Tabaquite....ah setta winding road and ting...rel pothole and ting....all dat go contribute to making it far..in de Trini sense of de word. Geographically..compared to the states...it eh far..buh is still a good pull.
Consider de traffic flow...on a mornings..heading to POS....is real traffic..if yuh heading down south is no scene...on afternoons de reverse happens. Now study if a man like me who living on the east west corridor decide i making a run manny ramjohn to go a game starting 7. Game finish like 9...it have any surity i could get transport home to reach home at a decent hour? Especially when yuh hearing a setta madness going on with PH car and ting. How much transport yuh getting out of Central and South dem kinda hours of de night? Transport would be a bit easier for de expats....de culture different out dey. Yuh could take a bus...yuh have a bus schedule published weeks in advance..and give or take 10 minutes de bus dey as promised. Yuh could travel by plane..by cab...in a relative degree of safety. How dat comparing to home? Worse yet when you one ah de few people you know who seriously passionate bout de team....in light of all those factors...you still might be considering it....you feel you getting anybody who just on de lime to go down dey and watch a friendly with no big name players? So yuh know for sure if yuh going...yuh goin by yuhself. All dem ting does temper men mood about it. Compare that to the attitude a foreign based who could get transport with relative surity...and know dat dey going and meet men who going and lime and make it worth it. Wha yuh feel go be de end result?
Bourbon, everything you say makes sense. HOWEVER...
Where there's a will there's a way... and I'm not trying to be cavalier in saying that. You think it easy to travel to Richmond from DC? Or worse Boston from DC? Yeah it might be a straight shot, but Richmond is a 3-hour drive. Boston is 8... yet man does make that. What man up here does do is hire a bus. You mean to tell me that fans can't say leh we hire a maxi from town to Sando and back? Hire the maxi and tell the man he getting paid after he drop allyuh back in town... or after he pick allyuh up in Sando... whichever. That is what man does do here... charter bus and make ah lime outta de ride. Man not riding the bus fuh de lime... but de lime makes it easier to endure the inconveniences to and from the game. Just think if you had to travel to Maracas for a beach lime vs. if yuh was going there with friends in ah chartered bus/maxi (ent PTSC does still do charter?). Do that for the games.
Doh try and make the trips by allyuh self b/c it will be hard. Maybe that is what WN need to start doing... organize and hire maxi from points east and south to head to POS games, and east and north to head to South games. As ah say, where there's ah will there's a way. Is the thinking (mindset) that needs to change.
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Anyways...I was never into the talk about who is more supportive than whom- I could see why overseas support appears to be relatively stronger than that of the locals but I'm not sure if you could definitively measure that. I was more interested in putting forth some thoughts on why the dynamic might be the way it is..... because I don't think that locals & foreign based are of a different breed- I think that there are social phenomena are at play here that segregate the behavior of the two groups (if there really is a difference at all)...and that was the point of my post.
Yeah I think too much focus on who more passionate is counter-productive as it would only inevitably lead to alienation and bruised feelings of some sort. Don't get me wrong, I think it's important to acknowledge a difference (or lack thereof) to the extent that one exists. I don't believe that we're dealing with a different "breed" per se (I know what you mean, and using it in the same sense)... I honestly believe it has to do with the mindset. This is to say, what the local based see as obstacles to them attending vs. how the foreign-based would view similar 'obstacles'. Again, don't want to seem cavalier about the hurdles local-based face... but outside of cost, there appears to only be the logistics of travel, but obviously I think there's a way around that.
If anyone (especially local-based) can identify other obstacles as they perceive them I think we might get some good from this thread after all. We might have to task the local-based WN members to brainstorm and come up with solutions. Maybe take out an ad...or get Lasana to mention before game day that they'll be organizing ah bus/maxi etc.
I dunno.
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Really... I am? Where did I say such a thing? I said the fan base consists of those who are fans of the Soca Warriors... or did you miss that the first five times I said it? I made no qualification of the fan base... and in fact I said it includes many who can't make it to all the games, people like myself who can't make a mid-week trip to Nashville.
I didn't miss anything. we both accept that there are examples of local and foreign based fans who go to great lengths to see the team. you said that the argument becomes moot when you consider what the foreign based are willing to do to see a game. Implicit in you saying that is that, all else equal, that behaviour is more likely to be exhibited by foreign based.
Whether you want to admit it or not, you have already made a speculation of your own to get to that conclusion if only because all else isn't equal.
but moving on, if you're not putting that restriction on the fan base then your argument just develops another hole: how on earth does someone who prefers not to speculate make a determination about how much of the fan base is sitting at home watching on tv instead of going to Nashville/Boston/Chicago/Hartford?
That's strange... I could have sworn you said "plenty" of that fan base... now you're saying you spoke specifically of your family and people you overheard making random comments in the parking lot. Either "plenty" of your relatives were in attendance or there were "plenty" in the parking lot displaying their ignorance as to who's wearing what. Not that that proves they were there just for the lime... but we'll leave it where it is.
I did say plenty and I haven't changed that position yet. I used people I know as examples. just as I used an example of someone I didn't know. How you could twist that into a supposed change of stance on my part is beyond me. I recognize this is not scientific proof but I feel very secure in my claim that plenty of the trinis in attendance don't "follow" the team.
The nature of this topic precludes a scientifically acceptable level of proof. Regardless of which side you're arguing. So that raises the question: why would you even get into it if you have such an aversion to speculation?
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Doh try and make the trips by allyuh self b/c it will be hard. Maybe that is what WN need to start doing... organize and hire maxi from points east and south to head to POS games, and east and north to head to South games. As ah say, where there's ah will there's a way. Is the thinking (mindset) that needs to change.
Yeah i know. Dahs why dis does happen:
Worse yet when you one ah de few people you know who seriously passionate bout de team....in light of all those factors...you still might be considering it....you feel you getting anybody who just on de lime to go down dey and watch a friendly with no big name players? So yuh know for sure if yuh going...yuh goin by yuhself.
Yuh hadda remember most people on dis board not locally based.
For me personally....real dynamics does hadda fall in place for me to get to go. First off funds...i a student...and tings rel tight with me. I does spend 34 dollars a day in transport to go to school..and is my parents i hadda rely on for that. Most times being sensitive to the suituation I just doh bother...unless school closed and i working....which in that case is no scene....i dey for sure..cuz gas money eh no scene..ticket money eh no scene..i could carry my lil bro and sister...all dat. But....when i hadda be fighting up with almost a luciferian school work load....expenses on a minimum....and den hadda find extra money to go south and ting and eh be sure bout transport and ting to get back...plus the time consumed as a opportunity cost...when schoolwork and other stresses done on high....it does be difficult. When i do go..i make sure and enjoy it doh. I remember school was closed so i was working around the time of the England game..i went and buy 4 tickets even doh most people i knew was non commital bout it......i still say no scene...i go must convince somebody to go. I end up convincing some people from church to move....and i had to warn dem..."eh..allyuh..i letting allyuh know from up front...i does carry on like a rel skettel in football eh...doh be shocked." It have so many things i would like to do dat due to constraints i cant. Dahs how it is....me eh vex. But de same way expats would enjoy a consistent lime with trini's and wish they could do it often...they will maximise any opportunity to do so. When most circumstances favourable...i go still make de sacrifice and go once i could..and i does make sure and enjoy it. De ting is....when i go in de stadium.....and i singing the anthem as loud as i could..and people watching me funny....when i making noise...booing.....heckling......yuh does hear some ass who doh like dat..and rather dan create a scene..i go jus humble and keep it conservative. If yuh want to make noise when something happen..go and spectate golf....football eh for dat.
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I didn't miss anything. we both accept that there are examples of local and foreign based fans who go to great lengths to see the team. you said that the argument becomes moot when you consider what the foreign based are willing to do to see a game. Implicit in you saying that is that, all else equal, that behaviour is more likely to be exhibited by foreign based.
Whether you want to admit it or not, you have already made a speculation of your own to get to that conclusion if only because all else isn't equal.
Fella you could see whatever you want to see in my position it matters not to me. One thing I am not lacking for is the ability to express myself, if you're the only one deriving these wild conclusions from my post then I am perfectly content with that. I never said anything about "all else being equal", instead I listed what I see as the two most realistic obstacles to fans supporting the games in TnT... cost and travel. Compare the cost and travel that fans here in the US have to endure and there simply is no comparison. If you see speculation somewhere in that then feel free to point it out. Or continue playing de ass looking for thing that ah never said.
but moving on, if you're not putting that restriction on the fan base then your argument just develops another hole: how on earth does someone who prefers not to speculate make a determination about how much of the fan base is sitting at home watching on tv instead of going to Nashville/Boston/Chicago/Hartford?
I'm sorry... where did I make this determination again? Did I ever mention anything about the respective numbers of fans at the games or at home? Are we even reading the same posts?
I said the fan base isn't limited to the people at the games here in the US... and perfectly willing to concede that the fan base isn't limited to the people at the games in TnT. That was an aside and never central to anything that I said, but I address it since you're apparently having difficulties understanding the context in which it was mentioned.
I did say plenty and I haven't changed that position yet. I used people I know as examples. just as I used an example of someone I didn't know. How you could twist that into a supposed change of stance on my part is beyond me. I recognize this is not scientific proof but I feel very secure in my claim that plenty of the trinis in attendance don't "follow" the team.
I can only conclude that you either have problems with the English language, or with Reading Comprehension. I never "twisted" anything into suggesting that you changed your position, I was simply questioning whether your family members and the odd conversations you overheard in the parking lot qualifies as "plenty". You say it does.
Where did I ever state that you changed your stance?
The nature of this topic precludes a scientifically acceptable level of proof. Regardless of which side you're arguing. So that raises the question: why would you even get into it if you have such an aversion to speculation?
And I'm sure you see people in here asking for "scientifically acceptable level of proof"... right?? Not being able to quantify the numbers doesn't mean that we can't make logical conclusions (that don't amount to speculation) based on our non-scientific observations. It's actually quite simple... examine the obstacles faced by local-based supporters, examine the same for foreign-based supporters. Take a look at the turnout at the games in each setting and make a determination as to what the per capita representation at the games is... presented as a percentage.
This is relatively easy in the case of TnT not as easy to tell how many Trinis in the crowds at US-based games. But knowing the size of the crowd in attendance and taking a visual of the Trinis in the crowd (not scientific... but most would be wearing red and sitting together) easy to make an educated as to the size of the Trini contingent. This is about the only bit of "speculation" that I've done. Toss that aside and it's pretty easy to still conclude that foreign-based face greater obstacles than local based when it comes to attending games.
No "scientifically acceptable" proof needed.
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Doh try and make the trips by allyuh self b/c it will be hard. Maybe that is what WN need to start doing... organize and hire maxi from points east and south to head to POS games, and east and north to head to South games. As ah say, where there's ah will there's a way. Is the thinking (mindset) that needs to change.
Yeah i know. Dahs why dis does happen:
Worse yet when you one ah de few people you know who seriously passionate bout de team....in light of all those factors...you still might be considering it....you feel you getting anybody who just on de lime to go down dey and watch a friendly with no big name players? So yuh know for sure if yuh going...yuh goin by yuhself.
Yuh hadda remember most people on dis board not locally based.
For me personally....real dynamics does hadda fall in place for me to get to go. First off funds...i a student...and tings rel tight with me. I does spend 34 dollars a day in transport to go to school..and is my parents i hadda rely on for that. Most times being sensitive to the suituation I just doh bother...unless school closed and i working....which in that case is no scene....i dey for sure..cuz gas money eh no scene..ticket money eh no scene..i could carry my lil bro and sister...all dat. But....when i hadda be fighting up with almost a luciferian school work load....expenses on a minimum....and den hadda find extra money to go south and ting and eh be sure bout transport and ting to get back...plus the time consumed as a opportunity cost...when schoolwork and other stresses done on high....it does be difficult. When i do go..i make sure and enjoy it doh. I remember school was closed so i was working around the time of the England game..i went and buy 4 tickets even doh most people i knew was non commital bout it......i still say no scene...i go must convince somebody to go. I end up convincing some people from church to move....and i had to warn dem..."eh..allyuh..i letting allyuh know from up front...i does carry on like a rel skettel in football eh...doh be shocked." It have so many things i would like to do dat due to constraints i cant. Dahs how it is....me eh vex. But de same way expats would enjoy a consistent lime with trini's and wish they could do it often...they will maximise any opportunity to do so. When most circumstances favourable...i go still make de sacrifice and go once i could..and i does make sure and enjoy it. De ting is....when i go in de stadium.....and i singing the anthem as loud as i could..and people watching me funny....when i making noise...booing.....heckling......yuh does hear some ass who doh like dat..and rather dan create a scene..i go jus humble and keep it conservative. If yuh want to make noise when something happen..go and spectate golf....football eh for dat.
yeah man Bourbon... I totally understand. Dai'z why ah say ah di'n want tuh be cavalier in dismissing some of the costs hurdles man does have to negotiate. I in de same financial straits as you having exhausted mih modest savings since returning to school full-time and forfeiting ah paycheck. It would be so nice if the TTFF would come to their senses and offer Warrior Nation members discounted tickets. Ah well...