Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: zuluwarrior on April 23, 2014, 05:13:05 PM
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http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,193733.html
Did any of you guys see this on Facebook ? I saw it , If this was my daughter i do not know what i might have done .
Is either we spare the rod and spoil the child or bend the tree when it is young .
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steups...is only licks they can respond to...beat dem..
both sisters including the one that got the licks did a video explaining the situation...they both admitted the licks was a last resort but was necessary
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I think it's interesting how hypocritical times have become. Suddenly a cut tail deserves scrutiny because it on FB. hmm. 90% of T&T grow up on that. She lucky mame didn't put her to kneel down with her hands up in the air holding to big stone. :rotfl: I just remember that oui... kneeling down...ha ha.
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I think it's interesting how hypocritical times have become. Suddenly a cut tail deserves scrutiny because it on FB. hmm. 90% of T&T grow up on that. She lucky mame didn't put her to kneel down with her hands up in the air holding to big stone. :rotfl: I just remember that oui... kneeling down...ha ha.
I thought I was the only one who was disciplined like that?! :-\
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I think it's interesting how hypocritical times have become. Suddenly a cut tail deserves scrutiny because it on FB. hmm. 90% of T&T grow up on that. She lucky mame didn't put her to kneel down with her hands up in the air holding to big stone. :rotfl: I just remember that oui... kneeling down...ha ha.
u had it easy...i had to kneel on graters...
Kamla talk a talk about looking to ban corporal punishment in the home...that would be the end of society as we know it...
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Right? :rotfl: Muks I never did the grater thing but I heard of it. Socapro I nearly dead when those memories flashed into my mind. Imagine seeing that on FB. :D Police will be on their way.
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Why Kamla doh ban puncheon.
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Mom who beat 12-year-old daughter on Facebook will do anything to set her child right ...Girl says sorry for bringing shame to family
By Michelle Loubon
READY FOR JAIL
In the aftermath of the posting of a video on Facebook showing her beating her 12-year-old daughter, Point Fortin mother Helen Bartlett says she is “prepared to go to jail” to set her child on the right path.
The mother of four yesterday said her daughter was her “problem child” who might be “acting out” because of neglect on her father’s part.
Bartlett made these statements during a radio interview with journalists Dale Enoch and Tony Lee on i95.5 FM yesterday morning. They shared data which revealed about 72 per cent of the respondents support her action, while 28 per cent did not agree with the mode of discipline.
Bartlett’s elder daughter and the 12-year-old “problem child” have since posted a counter video in support of their mother. They both said she was a good mother who just wanted what was best for her children.
Bartlett’s action has sparked debate over whether she was engaging in discipline or child abuse.
Asked if she had any regrets, Bartlett said: “No. I don’t have any regrets on the discipline, but on the views of the wider nation.”
On the question of support, Bartlett said: “I am getting support. And I have support from my family and from her. The child is supporting me, too.”
Asked what could have triggered such a severe beating, she said: “She has been my problem child. You know they say in every family, there is a problem child. I have been talking to her. I have tried numerous methods. I have even tried to get counselling.”
Amid the chorus of condemnation, Bartlett said she was yet to hear from the child’s father—a policeman.
She said: “I am yet to hear where is the father? I am yet to get a phone call from him. The video has gone viral. She is crying out for her father. And I am yet to see him. The video went out on Sunday. And today is Wednesday. I am doing this on my own.”
Asked if there was any communication between the child and her father, Bartlett said: “He is blatantly telling her he does not want to have anything to do with her. She just has this attachment to her dad. I believe she started acting out after the separation. She was very close to him. After the separation, that is when the problem started.”
Bartlett said “the danger... boys like sharks on foot... was even greater” since the girl started secondary school.
With a sense of pride, she said: “She is pretty, well educated. She is intelligent, but she has a sense of low self-esteem. She wants to be with the ‘in’ crowd.”
Bartlett said times have changed from when there was a stronger sense of community and when “Uncle Tom by the shop was my uncle”.
Asked if she regretted her action which was intended to “shame” her daughter, Bartlett said: “I believe she has to have shame that way. I don’t want her to be 14 or 15 and she comes home pregnant and I wake up and don’t find her in her bed. And I find her in Toco dead.”
Bartlett added: “I stand firmly by my decision. I will go to jail for it. I know people are saying the authorities should charge me for abuse. She is not supposed to be putting her underwear on Facebook.”
Giving details on what triggered the beating, she said: “She received a text message. I got a text message with she and a young man who was convincing her to have sex with him. The boy is around her age. I told her once school open you will get a “cut skin” (vernacular for licks). I can’t deal with the lies.”
Bartlett said she enquired about her daughter’s profiles and while viewing them, she saw “seductive poses”.
She said: “You in a vest and your underwear! What statement is that? And for a 12-year-old child?”
While she could monitor her at home, she said, “I can’t go in her class. I don’t know what is going on when I send her to school.”
Asked about her daughter, she said: “She is coping unexpectedly well. She said, ‘I did not mean to put you through this stress.’ She has sense. She apologised. And she is coping well. She is spiritually grounded. I don’t know where that (indecent exposure) came from.”
Although she has not returned to school yet, Bartlett said she has alerted her to what will unfold at school. “I have mentally stabilised her for that because I expect what will happen.”
In the counter video posted on Facebook, her elder daughter said Bartlett’s actions “were a last resort” to prevent her daughter from the path of teenaged pregnancy. The beaten child has apologised to her mother and family.
The elder daughter said: “That 12-year-old has been putting my mother through a lot. My mom is not a bad mother. Every day since primary school, people are saying mom should ground her. And mom tried all of that.
“People are saying you should take away her phone. As for the people who asked why she was on Facebook, she was not living with us. She was living with her grandmother. Facebook was a way to communicate with her.”
She said: “My mom is very sorry for what happened with the video going viral. And she knew this would have stopped it. The road my sister was heading down was teenaged pregnancy. She saw this as a way she could stop it. My sister has learnt her lesson.”
Defending her mother’s actions, she said: “She loves us dearly. Any parent that did not love their child would have let her do that. The guys are putting a lot of stress on the family. I am pretty sure she will not be on Facebook till 65.”
She added: “There is no male figure. She (her mother) is doing it on her own. She will go to the end of the earth for us. She is in her bedroom crying and praying. She was trying to teach her a lesson.”
Appealing for children to be more responsible on social media, she said: “This is a wake-up call to all children on Facebook. Have respect and dignity.”
Then the video shifted to the 12-year-old saying to her mother, “I am very sorry for bringing shame on you and the family. I know you love me dearly. And I love you dearly, too.”
She also had advice for her peers.
“You watch this video and try to make it better. You are a special piece of God’s puzzle. And don’t let what happen to me happen to you also.”
She cleared the air on views she might plunge into depression and commit suicide saying, “I love myself too much.”
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I heard this on the radio the yesterday and strangely enough most of the callers agreed with the mother. I'm no parent, yet anyway but if I were to find my 12 year old daughter posing and posting pics on facebook in her underwear and such, I'm not sure how I might react.
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I understand the cut-ass... but the shaming part, I have issues with that. I'm not condemning her still, but I don't agree with her filming and publishing the beating.
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Anybody have a link to the vid?
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Anybody have a link to the vid?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=566857633411967
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I understand the cut-ass... but the shaming part, I have issues with that. I'm not condemning her still, but I don't agree with her filming and publishing the beating.
this
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True....but I was reading I felt as if the mother used the filming and publishing as a way to get the dad's attention.
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True....but I was reading I felt as if the mother used the filming and publishing as a way to get the dad's attention.
Makes a lot of sense if he has been missing in action and she needs his input with the children.
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Anybody have a link to the vid?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=566857633411967
Thanks.. needed to see and judge for myself :beermug:
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True....but I was reading I felt as if the mother used the filming and publishing as a way to get the dad's attention.
Nah, I just watched the video mihself and the mother's words and actions make it clear that she was intent on shaming the child. I don't think the beating was necessarily "vicious"... but it was too much. I didn't count, but she hit that child too many times. The message was communicated, and I'm sure the lesson was learned, inside of a minute or two. That video went on for 6 minutes, with a solid half of it being licks. Discipline was necessary, some would even say (and I won't argue) that some blows have to pass, but the punishment must fit the crime.
On a separate but related note... Trinidad in dire need of a corporal punishment statute.
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I got my fair share of that and I took my licks proper the only obligations I had was getting a dose in front of friends at home or at school from my parents. If I was in that girl shoes, from the time I see I was about to get a session in front of the camera, I was jumping out the window!
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Children's Task Force member: Don't Demonise Mom (http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Child-Task-Force-member-Dont-Demonise-Mom-256517131.html)
By Sue-Ann Wayow sue-ann.wayow@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Apr 24, 2014 at 8:54 AM ECT (T&T Express)
THE mother seen in a Facebook video beating her 12-year-old
daughter with a belt was trying to make a point to the child and
should not be demonised for doing so.
This is according to Children's Task Force member Rhondall Feeles
who said his opinion varied from other Task Force members.
Feeles told the Express negative comments by members of the public would encourage the child to think she was abused and not disciplined.
The six minute video of the mother has gone viral on Facebook with more than 16,000 shares up to late yesterday evening. In the video, the mother said she beat her daughter because she had posted
indecent photos of herself on the same site.
Minister of State in Ministry of Gender, Youth and Child Development Raziah Ahmed has criticised the posting of the video and the actions demonstrated. However, Many Express bloggers have shown support for the woman while some disagreed.
Feeles said: "I am a member of a task force ready to arrest mothers who do not make reports of pregnancy and sexual acts mandatory, but they are ready to crucify a mother who takes a step to discipline her child and prevent her from engaging in the same acts."
"We have sent a very dangerous message to the young children in society who are monitoring how this mother is being demonised," he said.
He said the lack of proper discipline by parents and teachers was the cause of many problems in the country's society.
"The mother as a parent must set some law and order. If we keep letting the rights of the child supersede the rights of the parent, the only thing we will have them to do, as we are seeing now, is dragging these children before the courts and filling up the homes, filling up YTC (Youth Training Centre) where they will be disciplined possibly in the very same way or even a harsher measure when they get to these places," Feeles said.
He said: "The mother trying to discipline the child now has become the problem instead of what the child really has done."
Feeles said: "The same place (on-line) where everybody could see her getting licks, that was the same place she was before posting half nude pictures. The mother seems to say, if you can post these pictures and not be ashamed, don't be ashamed if I am disciplining you for the very same people. Let me show them that you are a little girl and you need to be corrected. I wouldn't say that I totally agree but I wouldn't say I disagree either."
However, he did not agree with the mother using obscene language.
Feeles said he was grateful for the beatings he received as a child and he hoped leaders would not stray from the main problem which was "a 12-year-old girl brave and courageous enough to be posting half naked pictures on Facebook".
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Take she phone and send her to her room, with no tv, no liming and no friends for 2 months.
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True....but I was reading I felt as if the mother used the filming and publishing as a way to get the dad's attention.
Nah, I just watched the video mihself and the mother's words and actions make it clear that she was intent on shaming the child. I don't think the beating was necessarily "vicious"... but it was too much. I didn't count, but she hit that child too many times. The message was communicated, and I'm sure the lesson was learned, inside of a minute or two. That video went on for 6 minutes, with a solid half of it being licks. Discipline was necessary, some would even say (and I won't argue) that some blows have to pass, but the punishment must fit the crime.
On a separate but related note... Trinidad in dire need of a corporal punishment statute.
Bakes I interested in what punishment will fit the crime of your 12 year old posting x-rated selfies on the internet.
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Take she phone and send her to her room, with no tv, no liming and no friends for 2 months.
i think u will find that children these days would rather licks than the above...
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Take she phone and send her to her room, with no tv, no liming and no friends for 2 months.
12 year old does "lime" in Trinidad now?
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Nah, I just watched the video mihself and the mother's words and actions make it clear that she was intent on shaming the child. I don't think the beating was necessarily "vicious"... but it was too much. I didn't count, but she hit that child too many times. The message was communicated, and I'm sure the lesson was learned, inside of a minute or two. That video went on for 6 minutes, with a solid half of it being licks. Discipline was necessary, some would even say (and I won't argue) that some blows have to pass, but the punishment must fit the crime.
On a separate but related note... Trinidad in dire need of a corporal punishment statute.
Bakes I interested in what punishment will fit the crime of your 12 year old posting x-rated selfies on the internet.
You really need to ask?
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Time for an alternative viewpoint ... given that it's sorely (pun unintended) absent on this thread.
Clearly, the video of the lashes was posted because the inappropriate conduct was exhibited on social media. Thus, the mother is disciplining in a manner she views directly correlated and responsive to that inappropriate conduct. She pauses several times to talk to her daughter ... what Facebook is for and not for ("the ideas yuh sending on Faacebook encouraging the wrong set ah responses" ... and "since allyuh like allyuh life on Facebook"), problems with inappropriate conduct on social sites ("where yuh panty supposed to be ... why ah seeing it on Facebook?"), teenage pregnancy ("teenage pregnancy is not something I want in my house"), focus on school ("Justin is a subject?" .... "study yuh book, yuh book, yuh :cursing: book") etc.
These are clear messages with no half stepping. They no doubt resonated with the other daughters in the household. Shaming has some value ... particularly when the conduct involved is conduct of which one would and should be ashamed?
The video also sends a message to the boys as well.
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Girl’s dad plans libel suit against mother
Published:
Friday, April 25, 2014
Kevon Felmine
Text Size:
Helen Bartlett
The father of the 12-year-old girl whose Facebook flogging post has created a firestorm of comments over discipline has disputed her mother’s claim that he was a deadbeat dad. He spoke on Vibe CT 105.1 FM’s Mixed Nuts morning programme yesterday but declined to reveal his name due to his occupation. The man said he had always been there for his children. However, he admitted since his separation from Helen Bartlett, the mother of the children there were some problems which hindered his communication with his two daughters. He said he was only made aware of the incident when someone called him and alerted him to the video of Bartlett beating the child with a belt which has since gone viral on YouTube and Facebook.
In a telephone interview yesterday, a close relative of the father told the T&T Guardian, via telephone, the father met with an attorney yesterday and they have started the process of filing a libel lawsuit against Bartlett. “He met with his lawyer and we have a strong case because she has scandalised his name and have borne false witness against him. Legal action is being prepared. It is already in process,” she said. Asked whether he would be applying for custody of his children, the relative said the court had already awarded legal custody to the mother. “The children will still want their mother in their lives,” she added.
During a radio interview with i95.5 FM hosts Dale Enoch and Tony Lee on Wednesday, Bartlett said she was yet to hear from the child’s father. Bartlett said the father had refused to get involved in the matter. The relative said: “He can’t get them so right now he is trying to see about his name. This has rocked the family. It had shocked him. He is traumatised and hurt by this.”
The relative said that because the child’s father is a police officer, both of them would remain anonymous until necessary. The viral video of the Bartlett beating her daughter stemmed from a text message she received informing her that a teenage boy was trying to persuade the girl to have sex. After searching her daughter’s Facebook profile, she found seductive photos of her daughter. Although Bartlett’s action and the video have been criticised by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar, police and other public figures, there has been support for the mother on social networking sites.
News
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Nah, I just watched the video mihself and the mother's words and actions make it clear that she was intent on shaming the child. I don't think the beating was necessarily "vicious"... but it was too much. I didn't count, but she hit that child too many times. The message was communicated, and I'm sure the lesson was learned, inside of a minute or two. That video went on for 6 minutes, with a solid half of it being licks. Discipline was necessary, some would even say (and I won't argue) that some blows have to pass, but the punishment must fit the crime.
On a separate but related note... Trinidad in dire need of a corporal punishment statute.
Bakes I interested in what punishment will fit the crime of your 12 year old posting x-rated selfies on the internet.
You really need to ask?
Yeah I do. You said the lashes were not the problem, just how much and the public shaming was to much. So I would really like to know what a parent in this situation should ideally do?
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That arse whooping on FB changed that lil girl life for the better, I believe it. If that lil girl didn't learn she lesson she would have never made that video with the big sister saying how dey mudder luv dem. What will reinforce the lesson now is the jackarseness that the fadder gone and do in taking the mudder to court. Now the mudder and 2 daughters will band together. Watch it.
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Take she phone and send her to her room, with no tv, no liming and no friends for 2 months.
12 year old does "lime" in Trinidad now?
I was being silly as that's what they do here in the US. Just last week some people I know dropped their 12 year old daughter off to the movies on a date with her (2nd) boyfriend (broke up with the first). Trust and all.
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Trinidad going down the drain, actually into the cesspit as we in the gutter already. The youths have no respect whatsoever, and a parent attempt to step up to the plate, and she is being ridiculed.
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D fadder name is Anand threatening 2 sue. So she lie and say yuh eh contact them since d video when viral? She lie and u are part of the child life. U really think now is a good time 2 take d child mother 2 court.
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Yeah I do. You said the lashes were not the problem, just how much and the public shaming was to much. So I would really like to know what a parent in this situation should ideally do?
They could do what this mother did, dish out some corporal punishment as necessary- not every child needs it, not every situation calls for it. In this case there is talk that the little girl was a "problem child" so it may have been warranted in her case. Her offense was also egregious enough, and the lesson to be learned important enough that beating her may have been the proper resort. Instead of posting it on Facebook however, the mother should have found another way to add to the discipline... grounding a child works effectively, as would an entertainment ban, meaning no TV, phone or internet for a specific period.
The problem with posting to the internet is that once disseminated it's impossible to contain. Yes you can say the same for the semi-nude pics (or whatever they were), but there's no real way to justify a lack of discretion by an adult by rationalizing it against similar conduct by a child. The pics of her in her underwear didn't go viral, this video did. 10-20 years from now, if there's a chance that one of the two actions would have a detrimental impact on her or her career... it would be this video, not the picture/s of a 12-year old in her underwear.
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Time for an alternative viewpoint ... given that it's sorely (pun unintended) absent on this thread.
Clearly, the video of the lashes was posted because the inappropriate conduct was exhibited on social media. Thus, the mother is disciplining in a manner she views directly correlated and responsive to that inappropriate conduct. She pauses several times to talk to her daughter ... what Facebook is for and not for ("the ideas yuh sending on Faacebook encouraging the wrong set ah responses" ... and "since allyuh like allyuh life on Facebook"), problems with inappropriate conduct on social sites ("where yuh panty supposed to be ... why ah seeing it on Facebook?"), teenage pregnancy ("teenage pregnancy is not something I want in my house"), focus on school ("Justin is a subject?" .... "study yuh book, yuh book, yuh :cursing: book") etc.
These are clear messages with no half stepping. They no doubt resonated with the other daughters in the household. Shaming has some value ... particularly when the conduct involved is conduct of which one would and should be ashamed?
The video also sends a message to the boys as well.
Move to the head of the class! :beermug:
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That arse whooping on FB changed that lil girl life for the better, I believe it. If that lil girl didn't learn she lesson she would have never made that video with the big sister saying how dey mudder luv dem. What will reinforce the lesson now is the jackarseness that the fadder gone and do in taking the mudder to court. Now the mudder and 2 daughters will band together. Watch it.
Move to the head of the class! :beermug:
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That arse whooping on FB changed that lil girl life for the better, I believe it. If that lil girl didn't learn she lesson she would have never made that video with the big sister saying how dey mudder luv dem. What will reinforce the lesson now is the jackarseness that the fadder gone and do in taking the mudder to court. Now the mudder and 2 daughters will band together. Watch it.
I'm not sure this is necessarily true. I hope it is, but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion until the next time the girl is tested, be it online or otherwise.
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Take she phone and send her to her room, with no tv, no liming and no friends for 2 months.
12 year old does "lime" in Trinidad now?
I was being silly as that's what they do here in the US. Just last week some people I know dropped their 12 year old daughter off to the movies on a date with her (2nd) boyfriend (broke up with the first). Trust and all.
Or ok, didn't realize you were joking.
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Yeah I do. You said the lashes were not the problem, just how much and the public shaming was to much. So I would really like to know what a parent in this situation should ideally do?
They could do what this mother did, dish out some corporal punishment as necessary- not every child needs it, not every situation calls for it. In this case there is talk that the little girl was a "problem child" so it may have been warranted in her case. Her offense was also egregious enough, and the lesson to be learned important enough that beating her may have been the proper resort. Instead of posting it on Facebook however, the mother should have found another way to add to the discipline... grounding a child works effectively, as would an entertainment ban, meaning no TV, phone or internet for a specific period.
The problem with posting to the internet is that once disseminated it's impossible to contain. Yes you can say the same for the semi-nude pics (or whatever they were), but there's no real way to justify a lack of discretion by an adult by rationalizing it against similar conduct by a child. The pics of her in her underwear didn't go viral, this video did. 10-20 years from now, if there's a chance that one of the two actions would have a detrimental impact on her or her career... it would be this video, not the picture/s of a 12-year old in her underwear.
If the little girl has learnt her lesson and will start behaving herself and have a positive life with no teenage pregnancy etc as a result of her mother's preventative actions then why should seeing that video 10-20 years from now have a detrimental impact on her or her career?
I believe you are stretching things a bit there.
That girl can actually use that video in the future if she wishes to to show her own children what her mother was forced to do many years ago to help put her back on the straight and narrow.
The video could be a reminder of the love and concern her mother showed her to help turn her life around which led to the success she might be having 10 to 20 years from now.
There is no shame in her seeing that video especially 10-20 years from now when she is having a fruitful and successful life and career and wants to remind herself of what her mother did because she loves her.
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That arse whooping on FB changed that lil girl life for the better, I believe it. If that lil girl didn't learn she lesson she would have never made that video with the big sister saying how dey mudder luv dem. What will reinforce the lesson now is the jackarseness that the fadder gone and do in taking the mudder to court. Now the mudder and 2 daughters will band together. Watch it.
I'm not sure this is necessarily true. I hope it is, but I wouldn't jump to that conclusion until the next time the girl is tested, be it online or otherwise.
The little girl's facebook account and internet rights have been removed and apparently she has no plans on rejoining facebook anytime soon or at least not while she is under her mother's care and supervision. :thumbsup:
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Kamla while part of the UNC as MoE removed whooping in school and never replaced it with any substantial consequences for inappropriate behavior by students.
Now might be a very good time to institute some real policy regarding Education.
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The impact of the act is in the outcome.
Based on the happenings thus far the outlook is good. Child seems to have learnt the lesson for the better and the mother is willing to stand whatever the consequences that may arise for her.
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Girl’s dad plans libel suit against mother (http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2014-04-24/girl%E2%80%99s-dad-plans-libel-suit-against-mother)
Published: Friday, April 25, 2014
Kevon Felmine (T&T Guardian)
The father of the 12-year-old girl whose Facebook flogging post has created a firestorm of comments over discipline has disputed her mother’s claim that he was a deadbeat dad. He spoke on Vibe CT 105.1 FM’s Mixed Nuts morning programme yesterday but declined to reveal his name due to his occupation. The man said he had always been there for his children. However, he admitted since his separation from Helen Bartlett, the mother of the children there were some problems which hindered his communication with his two daughters. He said he was only made aware of the incident when someone called him and alerted him to the video of Bartlett beating the child with a belt which has since gone viral on YouTube and Facebook.
In a telephone interview yesterday, a close relative of the father told the T&T Guardian, via telephone, the father met with an attorney yesterday and they have started the process of filing a libel lawsuit against Bartlett. “He met with his lawyer and we have a strong case because she has scandalised his name and have borne false witness against him. Legal action is being prepared. It is already in process,” she said. Asked whether he would be applying for custody of his children, the relative said the court had already awarded legal custody to the mother. “The children will still want their mother in their lives,” she added.
During a radio interview with i95.5 FM hosts Dale Enoch and Tony Lee on Wednesday, Bartlett said she was yet to hear from the child’s father. Bartlett said the father had refused to get involved in the matter. The relative said: “He can’t get them so right now he is trying to see about his name. This has rocked the family. It had shocked him. He is traumatised and hurt by this.”
The relative said that because the child’s father is a police officer, both of them would remain anonymous until necessary. The viral video of the Bartlett beating her daughter stemmed from a text message she received informing her that a teenage boy was trying to persuade the girl to have sex. After searching her daughter’s Facebook profile, she found seductive photos of her daughter. Although Bartlett’s action and the video have been criticised by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar, police and other public figures, there has been support for the mother on social networking sites.
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Don’t rush to condemn Ms Bartlett (http://www.trinidadexpress.com/letters/Dont-rush-to-condemn-Ms-Bartlett-256629101.html)
Story Created: Apr 24, 2014 at 8:52 PM ECT (T&T Express)
I have listened to the arguments for and against corporal punishment with great interest over the last few days and I am pleased that we live in a society where we can ventilate our various views.
I have come to believe it is the overriding culture or belief system of a society that decides on what is morally acceptable as well as what is not tolerated. Thus, in most of Europe corporal punishment has all but disappeared.
Likewise in the US, prevailing attitudes have succeeded in all but eliminating totally the use of corporal punishment.
The laws in these countries were not designed in a vacuum. They are the way they are because society demanded that their prevailing attitudes be mirrored in those countries’ law books. That is what makes the study of man and society so interesting. There are so many differences, so many views on what is right and wrong.
While I am not myself a proponent of corporal punishment, I cannot comfortably condemn the actions of Helen Bartlett as being “cruel and sadistic”. In our society, the use of corporal punishment is not tarred with the same brush used by the Europeans and the Americans. We have not as yet demonised the use of the “rod” when it comes to correcting our young. This is not to say that I am all for parents going out buying mop sticks and batons and laying into their children mercilessly. I accept, though, our standards of what is morally acceptable or not have to be shaped by us, not by others.
Ms Bartlett should not be condemned because she is, like all of us, a product of this society. Eventually, we may develop different views and beliefs as is our wont but for the most part, culture and environment shaped the way we talk, the way we interact and in this case the way we correct our children.
I also wish to remind those that are quick to demonise this mother’s actions that she is a single mother at a time when teenage delinquency is at frightening levels, at a time when the scourge of teenage pregnancy bestrides the land like some dark colossus. She must have been so afraid and ashamed and I feel that she must have thought that only drastic and dramatic action could suffice.
Should we sit in our ivory towers, saying “no, no, for shame that is not the way”? I wish that we have a national discussion on parenting. I wish that we engage each other on topics like ethics and delinquency but I also wish that we try and stay away from simply adopting foreign standards and then using those to condemn ourselves.
When we see crime and delinquency exploding uncontrollably and the rule of law breaking down so utterly we as a society must respond with vigour and fortitude but in our haste I beg, let us be slow to condemn.
Gary Almarales
via e-mail
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(https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/10172587_625873227487370_963605067366559908_n.jpg)
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Here is link to the video on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=626995590715013
And here is link to the follow-up video done by the daughters after the public reaction: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=568348873262843
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:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Is only Trini could take serious thing and make yuh laff , we good like that .
Mods this thread and that one is the same why not link them eh ?
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Why Kamla doh ban puncheon.
:D :cheers:
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Kamla while part of the UNC as MoE removed whooping in school and never replaced it with any substantial consequences for inappropriate behavior by students.
Now might be a very good time to institute some real policy regarding Education.
:beermug:
In a direct or indirect way Kamla is responsible for a major part of the delinquency problems we are seeing in the country right now stemming from students not having any substantial consequences for inappropriate behavior in schools. One thing leads to another and so forth as citizens from young learn that there are little or no consequences.
But I guess she could drink another glass of puncheon to ease her conscience about her grave mistake as MoE and forget about it.
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The father is an asshole!! I seriously would like to know how he would have handled the situation if she was living with him... He get called out and now he want to act like father of the year..
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Child ‘mentally scarred’ after beating
Originally printed at http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Child-mentally-scarred-after-beating-256786631.html
April 25, 2014
Manager of the Victim and Witness Support Unit in the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service (TTPS) Margaret Sampson-Browne said yesterday she would support an investigation by the police into the Facebook beating incident of the 12-year-old girl by her mother Helen Bartlett.
The girl had posted indecent photos of herself on Facebook, and the mother posted last Sunday a counter video with her being beaten. The video went viral and sparked national debate.
In a telephone interview with the Express, Sampson-Browne said, “I am in support of the commissioner (Stephen Williams) who has launched an investigation. Whatever happens after the investigation, is up to the commissioner. I am in support of the stance the commissioner is taking.”
Asked to comment on the view that the father was “a deadbeat dad”, she said: “I would prefer not to comment on that. I have not read anything about it. I just heard what the mother was saying.”
Sampson-Browne, who said she recently attended a conference on parenting hosted by the Ministry of Social Development, added that she felt the child had been “psychologically scarred” by the incident.
She said: “It is sad when society believes that behaviour is correct. She may have gotten more than 20 lashes. Every look at the camera that child got a lash. She is psychologically scarred for life. Could she go to her mom when she has a problem? Could she walk on the road? If you are angry with a child for a situation, you find some ways to deal with it.”
She added: “It (beating and video) is wrong. I will never tolerate it. And I hope the relevant authorities deal with it. What will happen when she goes back to school? What we have on the video is not a healthy interaction between a parent and child. Until someone could tell me it is not, I will hold on to that view.”
Sampson-Browne also queried whether the video would have gotten so many hits if it did not have “juice”. She said: “What about if the mother had made a video calmly stating “My daughter is doing X and Y. I am hurt. But I am caring for her.”
She sounded a warning, “We have to be careful if juice becomes infectious,” she said.
On the flip side, Bartlett said she was “willing to support any mother who disciplines her child within the context of discipline”.
She said: “Because you are parent, you have a choice. You must understand the punishment sometimes does not warrant the behaviour. We have to examine the community and the society. A child did not wake up in the morning and decide she would wake up and expose herself. She is a child.”
Sampson-Browne sent a message to Bartlett. She said: “Not because you made (gave birth) her means you will abuse her in that kind of way. Would you accept the father beating down on her? You (mother) did it and recorded it. You have determined how she will live for the next three or four months. You have determined how she enters a school and how she forges a relationship with her peers and teachers.”
Asked about people criticising her for labelling Bartlett’s actions as abusive, she said: “People are entitled to criticise. It is a lot of emotion. Sometimes your children can do something to get you angry. I am sorry for the society. The jury is out on that one. I can’t accept it.”
In the move towards healing and reconciliation, Sampson-Browne said: “I am willing to work with the family because the whole family and community is traumatised. I am willing to move them from sadness to sanity.” —Michelle Loubon
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I am only now seeing the video in its entirety. My only grievance is that she post it on Facebook/internet.
I heard an interview with the mother late last week and she admitted that she didn't fully understand the ramifications of posting the video on Facebook. She thought it would only be available to her friends on Facebook and that's it.
I also heard her say in the interview that this was her last resort and that she did talk to her daughter on numerous occasions about the issue i.e. men and relationships and the importance of getting an education.
Before seeing the video, I thought the woman beat de chile non-stop for 6 minutes. I realise now that she gave her a good lecture while beating her. Perhaps it was a bit excessive. I started to feel sorry for the girl towards the end when she got down on the floor and was endless blows at that point.
But I say give the woman an award. Isn't this what we want as a society? Parents taking charge of their children?
Mammie take a
:applause: :applause:
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I am only now seeing the video in its entirety. My only grievance is that she post it on Facebook/internet.
I heard an interview with the mother late last week and she admitted that she didn't fully understand the ramifications of posting the video on Facebook. She thought it would only be available to her friends on Facebook and that's it.
I also heard her say in the interview that this was her last resort and that she did talk to her daughter on numerous occasions about the issue i.e. men and relationships and the importance of getting an education.
Before seeing the video, I thought the woman beat de chile non-stop for 6 minutes. I realise now that she gave her a good lecture while beating her. Perhaps it was a bit excessive. I started to feel sorry for the girl towards the end when she got down on the floor and was endless blows at that point.
But I say give the woman an award. Isn't this what we want as a society? Parents taking charge of their children?
Mammie take a
:applause: :applause:
Move to the head of the class! :thumbsup:
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‘Daily Mail’ (UK) readers react to Facebook beating (http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Daily-Mail-readers--react-to-Facebook-beating-256852731.html)
By By Camille Bethel camille.bethel@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Apr 26, 2014 at 8:43 PM ECT
The issue of the controversial video of Helen Bartlett beating her 12-year-old daughter with a belt for posting sexually-explicit photos of herself on Facebook has been picked up by the London Daily Mail.
The news article, which was carried on the Daily Mail’s website yesterday, was accompanied by still shots of the beating and the video footage from the Facebook website.
The Daily Mail news article states: “Last Sunday, a video was posted on Facebook showing Helen Bartlett, a mother of four from Point Fortin, beating her sobbing daughter while hurling profanities at her. The six-minute clip, which depicts Ms Bartlett raining blows on the 12-year-old girl, who whimpers in pain and cowers from the belt, has been shared more than 43,000 online.”
Several photos of Bartlett beating her daughter were used to break up the story, in which the Trinidad Express was quoted.
The first of four photos used showed Bartlett talking to the child and was captioned “Public shaming”; the second and third photos which captured Bartlett using the belt on the child were captioned “Unsettling”, while the caption below the fourth photo questioned whether the beating was “discipline or abuse”.
The entire six-minute video which showed Bartlett beating her daughter with a belt for sharing sexually-revealing photos of herself on Facebook, which also accompanied the story on the Daily Mail’s website, was shared 7,273 times and had 1,821 view comments attached to it on the Daily Mail site. The video is currently one of the most watched news videos there.
The comments posted on the Mail website reflected mixed views of the beating, with some persons criticising the mother, saying that the beating was bordering on abuse, while others said they did not condemn the mother for her disciplining methods and even went as far as to share their own experiences with the disciplining measures they, as parents, took to keep them out of trouble.
Here is link to story in the Daily Mail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2613651/Shocking-video-Caribbean-mother-brutally-whipping-daughter-12-belt-posing-semi-nude-Facebook-goes-viral.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2613651/Shocking-video-Caribbean-mother-brutally-whipping-daughter-12-belt-posing-semi-nude-Facebook-goes-viral.html)
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No laws against corporal punishment in T&T (http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2014-04-27/no-laws-against-corporal-punishment-tt)
Published: Sunday, April 27, 2014
RENUKA SINGH (T&T Guardian)
There is no law in T&T protecting children from corporal punishment at home or at school. Though former president George Maxwell Richards initially assented to the Children Act—which prohibits the beating of children—on August 6, 2012, it has never been proclaimed. The Office of the President, in a brief telephone interview Friday, charted the sequence of events that took the assented act out of the President’s Office before it could be proclaimed into law.
“After it was assented to, it went back to Parliament and I understand that the Child Protection Task Force had been set up and recommended that proclamation wait until the Children’s Authority was fully functioning,” the Office of the President said. “That is as far as it has reached,” the office said. “The act has not come back to the President’s office for proclamation.” That task force was set up by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar in December 2013.
Former attorney general Ramesh Lawarence Maharaj, in a brief telephone interview on Friday, said the responsibility for the failure to proclaim lay with the Cabinet, but added that no one can be arrested or charged for administering corporal punishment as that law does not yet exist. “The Cabinet has to advise the President when he could proclaim it into law. It is a failure of the Executive Arm of the Government that is preventing this act from coming into force,” Maharaj said.
The issue of corporal punishment once again gripped the public’s attention after a recording of a mother, Helen Bartlett, repeatedly hitting her 12-year-old daughter with a belt, was posted online and went viral. While the debate on corporal punishment continues to rage on the social networking sites and within private homes, there is no law to fine, charge or arrest someone for beating a child. As the current legality stands, though, corporal punishment is lawful in the home.
Children’s Authority can’t be reached
Several attempts to contact the Children’s Authority on Friday proved futile, but in a press release dated November 22, 2013, the authority confirmed that “the Children Act 2012 has been assented to and is yet to be proclaimed to make it effective law. “The Children’s Authority Act will be proclaimed once the basic administrative, physical and technical infrastructure is in place—such as places of safety, assessment centres, and a critical mass of staff to operationalise the authority.
“We are in the final stages of the preparatory work required for start-up and have been engaging key stakeholders to provide a more effective response to children at risk. “As we build capacity within the authority, a key initiative will involve delivering support to families so that they can provide a protective and nurturing environment for their children” the release stated.
Flogging still legal in T&T —UN Global Report
According to the United Nations 2013 Global Initiative to End All Corporal Punishment of Children, T&T is listed among the 24 states where the laws do not fully prohibit corporal punishment in any setting. T&T is listed among nations like Pakistan, Palestine, India, Somalia, Tanzania and Zimbabwe.
T&T is also listed among the 39 states, where corporal punishment—caning, flogging, whipping—is still a lawful criminal sentence. Again, T&T is listed among nations like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Brunei Darussalam, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Tonga.
The report further states that between 2005 and 2011, UNICEF collected statistics on violent punishment of children in 49 low-and-middle-income countries. The results show that in nearly all countries over 60 per cent of two- to 14-year-olds had experienced violent punishment—physical punishment and/or psychological aggression—in the home in the month prior to the survey. T&T once again features among the 15 countries in which 70-79 per cent of the young population was subjected to violence.
St Rose-Greaves: I’m not speaking about that right now...contact Children’s Authority
The Sunday Guardian contacted former minister of Gender, Youth and Child Development Verna St Rose-Greaves regarding the unenforced act, but was told that she “was not speaking about that right now.” St Rose Greaves then directed the Sunday Guardian to contact the Children’s Authority. The Sunday Guardian was then told that the “person to speak with” was not at the office and was advised to call back after an hour. However, there was no response to five subsequent phone calls.
The Children Act
The UN report noted that while the Children Act (2012) was assented to in August 2012 it is still awaiting proclamation. It noted that though Article 4 punishes cruelty to children, there is a caveat in subsection 6: “Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the right of any parent, teacher or other person having the lawful control or charge of a child to administer reasonable punishment to such child.”
Subsection 7 implicitly confirms that this allows parents to use corporal punishment: “Reasonable punishment referred to in subsection (6) in relation to any person other than a parent or guardian, shall not include corporal punishment.” Corporal punishment of children is still lawful in public and private schools under section 22 of the Children Act. Again, while it is prohibited in the Children (Amendment) Act 2000, the act has not yet come into force.
Meanwhile, the standing Education Act (1996) makes no reference to corporal punishment but is contradicted by the the National School Code of Conduct (2009) of the Ministry of Education which states that corporal punishment should not be used.
According to the Children’s Act, Section 3 (1) “If any person over the age of sixteen years, who has the custody, charge, or care of any child or young person, willfully assaults, ill-treats, neglects, abandons, or exposes the child or young person, or causes or procures the child or young person to be assaulted, ill-treated, neglected, abandoned or exposed, in a manner likely to cause the child or young person unnecessary suffering or injury to his health (including injury to or loss of sight, or hearing, or limb, or organ of the body, and any mental derangement) that person is liable of conviction on indictment, to a fine of four thousand dollars, or alternatively, or in default of payment of such fine, or in addition thereto, to imprisonment for two years; and on summary conviction, to a fine of one thousand dollars, or alternatively, or in addition thereto, to imprisonment for six months.”
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Rev Johnson: Distinct difference between discipline and abuse (http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,193939.html)
Sunday, April 27 2014 (T&T Newsday)
There is a distinct difference between corporal punishment and abuse says Reverend Kevin Johnson, a pastor from the Petit Valley Church of the Nazarene.
In a release responding to a video on Facebook of a 12-year-old girl being beaten with a belt by her mother for posting inappropriate pictures of herself on the same site Johnson said while he supports the right of parents to discipline their children, they should take care that their discipline doesn’t become abuse. The woman, Helen Bartlett, a mother of four claimed she beat her daughter to ensure she never posted inappropriate pictures of herself on Facebook again
Bartlett’s actions have sparked a public debate around the topic with some citizens agreeing with her actions and others protesting against it.
In support of Bartlett’s actions, some citizens have been stating that the Bible said “spare the rod, spoil the child.”
Johnson says while many people believe they are quoting the Christian Bible when they use the phrase “spare the rod, spoil the child,” this phrase was not to be found in the Bible.
“The phrase ‘spare the rod, spoil the child’ is often incorrectly attributed to the Christian Bible. When in fact it does not appear in there, it was first written in a poem (Hudibras) by Samuel Butler in 1664.”
The actual Bible quote comes from Proverbs 13.24 - “those who spare the rod of discipline hate their children. Those who love their children care enough to discipline.”
“There is a difference between corporal punishment and abuse . . . We support the use of corporal punishment within the home, but we strongly object to any from of abuse.
“Trinidad and Tobago is receptive of corporal punishment, and many of our citizens have not been traumatised by their parents use of it, but that does not negate the fact that it has negative effects as well,” Johnson said.
He said there is a two-factor difference between discipline and abuse. One difference is the intensity which refers to the extent to which injuries have resulted from the use of violence; and the intention for which the act was carried out.
Johnson said another “alarming” issue was Bartlett’s decision to film and post the video on Facebook. He said while there are no academic theories on the damage of publicly shaming children on social media, he said public humiliation is scarring especially since the video would not go away.
“It may stop the children from perpetuating bad behaviour, but the shame plagues them long after they’ve learned their lesson and the family has moved on from the incident,” he said.
Johnson encouraged all citizens to praise their children in public and chastise them privately.
“God raises or praises His children in public and privately chastises them . . . Thus we should remember that a parent’s duty is to discipline a child out of love, but not because we are afraid of the shame they may bring on us,” he said.
Johnson said the 12-year-old girl is in need of clinical counselling by a trained professional as well as being placed in a support group that will focus on her self-esteem building.
He also said the family unit should have counselling in order to move forward from the incident.
Johnson further called on the Government to take a more proactive stance to prevent future cases of child abuse.
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The father is a imps and d mother is a hero
Beat that lil girl like a snake....
Mammy hit her some small left hand belt...not any big scourging.
Also as said above, before each blow...mammy explain why she beating her.
Videos that came after...her sister said they try banning her, taking away phone etc nuttin working.
So cutarse was d last straw.
Everybody circumstance and how they grow up different, don't judge mamy...she trying her best and I applaud her.
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The father is a imps and d mother is a hero
Beat that lil girl like a snake....
Mammy hit her some small left hand belt...not any big scourging.
Also as said above, before each blow...mammy explain why she beating her.
Videos that came after...her sister said they try banning her, taking away phone etc nuttin working.
So cutarse was d last straw.
Everybody circumstance and how they grow up different, don't judge mamy...she trying her best and I applaud her.
when you feel you reach that last straw... no words to describe what goes through your mind (as a parent)
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Mother's and Kamla's response
http://www.tv6tnt.com/sevenpm-news/Kamla-on-licks-2526----256455411.html