Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Flex on January 05, 2006, 07:29:54 AM
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Contract for billion-dollar rail system by September.
By Charleen Thomas (Newsday).
Government is expected to award a contract for the proposed multi-billion dollar mass transit rail system by September this year, as it moves to deal with the traffic congestion along the East/West and North/South corridors.
The initial phase of the project is expected to take between five to six years.
In yesterday’s daily newspapers, the Government placed an advertisement inviting letters of interest (LOI) to design, build, operate and maintain (DBOM) the system, which is now being called "the rapid rail project."
Newsday understands the advertisements will be placed worldwide, as Government seeks to get a DBOM contractor who is "committed to quality; has experience in the planning, design, construction, operation and maintenance of rail transit systems and who will bring innovative design and building approaches to ensure timely completion."
The advertisement advised proposers, that is, firms, consortiums and joint ventures, that their LOIs should be submitted no later than 1 pm on Carnival Tuesday, February 28, 2006. It also stressed that late submissions of the LOIs will "not be considered under any circumstances."
The advertisement noted that the traffic congestion along the corridors "is an ongoing and ever increasing problem."
Only those proposers sending LOIs by the deadline date will receive qualification forms and instructions, as Government intends to "select one DBOM contractor for the entire project."
The LOIs are to be sent to the US offices of Parsons Brinckerhoff Quade and Douglas, the Indian consulting firm which got the $25 million contract to undertake the National Transportation Study.
Government anticipates that by March 31 this year, the qualification forms and instructions will be issued and responses evaluated to select the potential DBOM contractor.
It noted that the selection process will evaluate the proven experience on similar DBOM contracts, as well as the approach of the DBOM contractor to manage, plan, design, construct, operate, maintain and control the project, delivering a quality product at a reasonable price.
The actual price of the project will be negotiated after selection.
The selected contractor may also have to provide some interim solutions to relieve the current traffic congestion.
A contract is expected to be awarded by the fall of 2006, with an expected design and construction of the initial phase expected to take between five and six years to complete.
This phase will consist of one or more of the segments — Sangre Grande to Arima; Arima to Port-of-Spain; Port-of-Spain to Diego Martin; Port-of-Spain to Chaguanas and Chaguanas to San Fernando as determined by Government and the selected contractor.
The project will be implemented through the National Infrastructure Development Company (NIDCO).
In the Budget debate in October last year, Works and Transport Minister Colm Imbert announced that foreign experts would have arrived in Trinidad and Tobago in November last year to advise on the system.
He pointed out back then that the system was absolutely necessary because this country was over the internationally accepted standard for traffic density.
According to the minister, studies revealed that once traffic density crossed 10,000 persons, a rail-based mass transit system was vital. He said the current traffic density along the Eastern Main Road exceeded 15,000 persons.
In April 2004, Prime Minister Patrick Manning indicated the Government’s confidence of the feasibility of the rail system, saying that the system should be in place and operational by 2010.
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I seeing this as another blasted inquiry. It seems lately that we cyah build anything without haveing an investigation for corruption.
This go take some of dem maxis off d road and ease up a lil with the people who travelling to and from town. The problem still remains of of too many cars and too small roads. Men who driving ent go give dat up dey ride so.
Fix d highway first. Where else in d world it have traffic lights on major highways?
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I seeing this as another blasted inquiry. It seems lately that we cyah build anything without haveing an investigation for corruption.
This go take some of dem maxis off d road and ease up a lil with the people who travelling to and from town. The problem still remains of of too many cars and too small roads. Men who driving ent go give dat up dey ride so.
Fix d highway first. Where else in d world it have traffic lights on major highways?
i doh mind they trying to deal with the traffic situation. that is always a good thing.
but ent we had a rail system back in the day? so why rip it up at build it back now? and what about the plans they had for that ferry that was supposed to work from the east to POS...where that plan gone? i think we need to get some people that thinking straight to make plans for us and actually put them into action! otherwise we will be the country that had the most plans...brilliant plans and that is all that we had!
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i like it. it doh matter if they tief some money like the airport, it does make meh feel proud every time ah land in meh country. build ah subway nah :beermug:
i fuh that
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Is something to be proud of, no doubt but use some of dat money to fix what we have now nah. We need some flyovers in d highways to remove dem traffic lights, also put in some weighing stations and a heavy T lane for d trucks. If 2 trucks heading down d highway den is traffic back up behind dem.
I have family in construction and transport, dey have govt contracts and talking to dem it seems that most of the damage to the reoads comes from overloaded trucks. Weighing stations could help curb this and make sure dem men who running transport up to code.
Dem lil things help as well.
Anyways, what is the proposed line for the rail? East-West corridor and North- South?
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East to POS, POS - Diego, NOrth South ah think
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they cant even take care of a bus..yuh expect them to look after a rail-car..ah could done see the vandalizing taking place..it going to give some of them people who is watch the shit on tv to do the 'american' thing..steups.
what they have to do is get rid of all them traffic lights,build the interchange for the Gran Bazzaar area,make the Bus Route legal for everybody,make South Quay a lot wider down by the lighthouse to get rid of that major bottleneck,widen Wrightson road all the way down to mucurapo..and if they want to make the Port bigger and expand..let them reclaim more flecking land.
i sure it have many people who have much better ideas than me anyway...we people is just have our head up our ass..and dont want to learn anything or see what things are implemented in other places.
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they cant even take care of a bus..yuh expect them to look after a rail-car..ah could done see the vandalizing taking place..it going to give some of them people who is watch the shit on tv to do the 'american' thing..steups.
what they have to do is get rid of all them traffic lights,build the interchange for the Gran Bazzaar area,make the Bus Route legal for everybody,make South Quay a lot wider down by the lighthouse to get rid of that major bottleneck,widen Wrightson road all the way down to mucurapo..and if they want to make the Port bigger and expand..let them reclaim more flecking land.
i sure it have many people who have much better ideas than me anyway...we people is just have our head up our ass..and dont want to learn anything or see what things are implemented in other places.
Actually the PTSC system has improved...
I actually excited to se how this new rail system might pan out... They might also want to introduce car pooling laws in the interim, or in conjunction with the rail system.!
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they cant even take care of a bus..yuh expect them to look after a rail-car..ah could done see the vandalizing taking place..it going to give some of them people who is watch the shit on tv to do the 'american' thing..steups.
what they have to do is get rid of all them traffic lights,build the interchange for the Gran Bazzaar area,make the Bus Route legal for everybody,make South Quay a lot wider down by the lighthouse to get rid of that major bottleneck,widen Wrightson road all the way down to mucurapo..and if they want to make the Port bigger and expand..let them reclaim more flecking land.
i sure it have many people who have much better ideas than me anyway...we people is just have our head up our ass..and dont want to learn anything or see what things are implemented in other places.
Actually the PTSC system has improved...
I actually excited to se how this new rail system might pan out... They might also want to introduce car pooling laws in the interim, or in conjunction with the rail system.!
Car pool lanes would be nice but they need to put another lane on d highway for dat. Here in FL and I guess most places it have a dedicated HOV (high occupancy vehicle) lane on d I-95 that at certain hours yuh need to have at least 2 people in d car to drive on. Doh play yuh pulling a solo drive in dey on a morning or evening or yuh getting pull over.
Ah hope whatever they plan out they really maintain. Not like d vehicle inspection stations and stickers which i see nobody does take on now. Dats too bad, plenty ole car woulda get pull of d roads if they would only enforce dat. They also need to start looking into who giving out d stickers, ah know real men who pay for theirs without taking in their cars.
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Trinidad Express
Wednesday, August 30th 2006
APETT cautions on the proposed Rapid Rail Project (http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_business_mag?id=161005482)
The Association of Professional Engineers of Trinidad and Tobago (APETT) has expressed its concerns regarding the Government's proposed Trinidad Rapid Rail Project. The following is the first in a two part series prepared by the group.
(http://www.trinidadexpress.com/shared/images/2006/08/30/b5.jpg)
APETT is extremely concerned about the Government of Trinidad and Tobago's approach to the planning and implementation of the proposed Trinidad Rapid Rail Project, (TRRP) scheduled to start by the end of the year. Our main concern is that the Government is about to commit taxpayers to an expenditure of tens of billions of dollars without doing the necessary analysis to determine if this is the best and most cost-effective way of achieving the stated goals.
At a recent breakfast forum hosted by APETT, presenters and participants alike raised several questions about the project. Unfortunately, no representative of the consultants, Parsons Brinckerhoff, or the Ministry of Works and Transport accepted the invitation to attend. The questions have therefore remained unanswered.
The Institute of Transportation Engineers (ITE) in its internationally recognised and used best practice guide: Transportation Planning Handbook, 2nd. Ed. p. 422 states: -
"The MIS (Major Investment Study) is reserved for situations where it is clear that a large investment is required and offers a rigorous method to evaluate the trade-offs, for example, between additional expressway lanes, HOV(High Occupancy Vehicle) lanes or fixed guideway rail transit. Just as the public and stakeholder groups were involved in the development of the plan, this same requirement exists on a more focused basis for the MIS."
The key element in these studies is that the planners should recognise the importance of having an open process that broadly examines corridor solutions without preconceived biases.
It is instructive to note that the Vision 2020 sub-committee on Infrastructure, comprising professionals, technocrats and managers from both the public and private sectors reviewed the state of the transportation sector and the Government's plans for land transportation improvements. The sub-committee recognised that the Government was in the process of developing a National Physical Development Plan (NPDP) that would inform land-use planning and control over the medium to long term and that a Comprehensive National Transportation Study (CNTS) for Trinidad and Tobago would be prepared by 2007. As such, the sub-committee felt that detailed project identification in the medium to long term was not practical at this time. In other words, a project such as the proposed TRRP should be considered only after the NPDP and CNTS. To date, neither of these studies has been completed nor even their preliminary findings made subject to public scrutiny. Yet, the Government is inviting tenders for Phase 1 TRRP. This is a clear case of putting the cart before the horse.
The only justification that we have heard for this undue haste is that the traffic situation is critical and requires immediate action. While the situation is indeed critical, unless we understand how it came to be, we cannot be sure that the massive expenditure estimated at over $20 billion in capital works and an annual expenditure of $3 billion will truly solve the problem. Furthermore, when faced with a critical problem, the first requirement is proper planning. The second is proper management of existing resources. In the case of the TRRP there is a marked absence of both of these ingredients. Contrary to uninformed popular thinking, the country does not suffer from too much planning and analysis. What it is suffering from is too little implementation of what is planned on the one hand, and too much unplanned implementation on the other.
A review of the history of development of the land transportation sector over the last 40 years since the National Transportations Plan of 1967 would reveal why we are in the position of gridlock today. Firstly, the NTP of 1967 did not deal adequately with the role of public transportation nor did it detail plans for meaningful growth of the sector. Furthermore, many of the proposed highway developments were not implemented. Indeed many of the projects currently being undertaken were first identified as necessary during that plan. The main reason given for this failure to implement was a lack of funding. Subsequently, the East-West Corridor study of 1973-74 by Lea-Trintoplan examined the passenger movement requirements of the corridor and recommended the Priority Bus Route (PBR) as an exclusive HOV roadway as well as major highway improvements, including the Southern Link Freeway.
It also reiterated the need for urban highways identified in 1967. These recommendations were only partially implemented - again, through lack of funding. Moreover, the PBR, was never fully developed as a HOV roadway, the Public Transport Service Corporation (PTSC) was never fully equipped to maximise its usage, and the maxi-taxi industry was never properly planned, organised and managed to provide optimal service at minimal tax-payer expense. Interestingly, a Light Rail alternative to the PBR was considered during the planning stage, but after evaluation, it was not identified as the preferred option. Since then, the Government's policies ranging from the subsidisation of gasoline to the ease with which foreign-used cars can be imported into the country, have moved the car ownership rates to almost one car per every three persons.
For a project of this magnitude and significance, a pre-feasibility study ought to have been done long before developers were asked to tender. APETT's investigations have not unearthed any such study. In the absence of transparent and readily-available information on the analysis which is driving the fast-tracking of the TRRP ahead of the completion of the CNTS, we are left to examine the proposed 129km system based on the scant information given by the consultant, Parsons Brinckerhoff, in its informational meeting with potential bidders on March 14 2006 and using international empirical data as a benchmark.
Our preliminary estimate is that the
system would have a capital cost in the vicinity of TT$20 billion with an annual operating and maintenance cost of about $3 billion per year. Most likely, this would be heavily subsidised by the Government. This massive commitment dwarfs the 2005 capital subsidy to the PTSC of TT$45 million with an annual recurrent support of $80 million.
Additionally, the current institutional arrangements are too weak to support the proper management and administration of the public transportation sector. There is no agency currently responsible for the planning and administration of the public transport sector. Even within the Ministry of Works, there is no department or section with the necessary staff and mandate to carry out those functions. Furthermore, the Government does not have the capability for the ongoing analysis of the demand for public transport services and the quality of service being supplied to the public, by region or otherwise disaggregated.
Consequently, the Government is unable to assess the most cost-effective interventions that would create the greatest benefit. Into this milieu, the Government now proposes to spend $20 billion and a further $3 billion per year on a rail system, ostensibly without even the benefit of a pre-feasibility study.
For further information please contact Mark François, President APETT, 623-0789 or
680-3825.
Related threads:
Here is another white elephant (http://www.socawarriorssc.com/swonline/smf/index.php?topic=1508.0)
Jack Warner speaks out. (http://www.socawarriorssc.com/swonline/smf/index.php?topic=2794.0) (doh let the title throw yuh off)
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i not a civil eng, but i feel that heat go mash up dem lines and make it real hard to maintain.....lawd ah agree with feliz again ::)
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I seeing this as another blasted inquiry. It seems lately that we cyah build anything without haveing an investigation for corruption.
This go take some of dem maxis off d road and ease up a lil with the people who travelling to and from town. The problem still remains of of too many cars and too small roads. Men who driving ent go give dat up dey ride so.
Fix d highway first. Where else in d world it have traffic lights on major highways?
i doh mind they trying to deal with the traffic situation. that is always a good thing.
but ent we had a rail system back in the day? so why rip it up at build it back now? and what about the plans they had for that ferry that was supposed to work from the east to POS...where that plan gone? i think we need to get some people that thinking straight to make plans for us and actually put them into action! otherwise we will be the country that had the most plans...brilliant plans and that is all that we had!
from east to POS ??? wey dah ferry passing up de dry river oh wha ??? ???
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well some system need to eb in place to ease conngestion and a railsystem seems the best. it seems t be th emost feasible. not a subway in an island ... dais problems one time as de watertable will be high. any ways... nince trinidad had a rail system before maybe alot of the railsl coudl run on or close to the old routes.
my only thing is ..is dat de government go for expensive and fancy isntead of preactical.a.nd one sutied to our climate. though it will ahve less stress than one iin a temperate climate.
an efficent monorail or somehtign could work fine.. we dont need any high speed thing..trini small.
pos/diego to arima
and one that connecting somewhere along that route to sando. passing though chag. that is the majority of population and the most congested routes. as usual government eh taking advice of local profesinals..lor donly knwos y >>>$$$$$$$$$$$. i wonder who gettign thye cut this time
any ways. it is needed.
cause the stat is 2 cars per household..actually its 2 per person..but if u take into consideration who actually drive because of age and income etc..it works out to 2 perperson ..pure madness. u tell me....unless ppl wanan take boat to sando..lol.
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There is a significant portion of this article that deserves some attention. It deals with the lack of an administrative framework to manage and maintain such a system. There seems to be an absence of a cleaHuman Resource Strategy for the PTSC in the long term. I saw Ministers Narine, Sahadeo and Imbert on the news tonight insisting in order to provide services and attract foreign investment, infrastural development is necessary. Thats all well and good but you can't just construct buildings and other massive projects without plans and without developing the strategic capability to ensure that resources are used effectively. Its the sort of rationale that Jack and previous government had in constructing stadia but engineering no plan for their use or maintenance.That was just over $100m but this project is going to involve 10s of billions of $. If we don't approach this with resposible scrutiny we could have major promblem on our hands. I applaud the APETT for raising its concerns.
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such a high tec thing....ah wonder how much the toll will be to ride from POS to sando and back.
you think trinis go pay $200/ride? ($15 US 1 way) the ones who could afford it eh go be using it......thats probably what it will cost to run AT LEAST
can you say big government subsidy
better off with the old box car yes
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this is just another recipe for more bobol, corruption and inquiry.
we ent need no high speed rail in T&T..country so damn small already.
and as Ricky say, the government will have to heavily subsidize that rail service.
i think we bout 30 years too late in trying to finally use some of we 'oil' money to try and develop the country and put down infrastrucutre for foreign investments.
remember oil and gas going and run out in few years time too.
another thing..ah hope we ent getting ah foreign used rail system if we do get it lol
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another thing..ah hope we ent getting ah foreign used rail system if we do get it lol
:rotfl:
man yuh kill meh with dat one ;D
It have more articles on transportation planning but I will post that later.
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Contract for billion-dollar rail system by September.
By Charleen Thomas (Newsday).
A contract is expected to be awarded by the fall of 2006, with an expected design and construction of the initial phase expected to take between five and six years to complete.
??? ??? ???
i want to know how long it taking to get from arima to pos and how many stops in between.......i guessing arouca, tunapuna, curepe, san juan
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this whole thing remind me of the Simpsons episode where dey built that monorail for Springfield....any of you remember that?  :rotfl: :rotfl:
As the camera pulls away from the scene, Marge's voice narrates:
``And that was the only folly the people of Springfield ever embarked
upon. Except for the popsicle stick skyscraper. And the 50-foot
magnifying glass. And that escalator to nowhere.''
http://www.snpp.com/episodes/9F10.html
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Ah like it , de bandit an dem going tuh reach home faster. :devil: :devil:
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Contract for billion-dollar rail system by September.
By Charleen Thomas (Newsday).
A contract is expected to be awarded by the fall of 2006, with an expected design and construction of the initial phase expected to take between five and six years to complete.
??? ??? ???
i want to know how long it taking to get from arima to pos and how many stops in between.......i guessing arouca, tunapuna, curepe, san juan
i think they will have to stop at every little town on the east-west corridor.
all those villages are basically linear settlements, which means runing alongside a roadway.
but i think it mihgt have a train running eveyr 10 minutes, then again is Trinidad, how efficient and on schedule that train go be ;D
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dat is only mouth talk...PNM aint building nothin innah dat country but cemeteries.. and taking away we football fields and expanding there houses...
war sey so...
warmonga...
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note: this was written in July....since then it seems the consultant is including BRT in its study. More on that later
Trindad & Tobago Newsday
Thursday, July 13 2006
Vooosh (http://newsday.co.tt/businessday/0,40700.html)
by
Rae Furlonge
...there goes Chaguanas
Construction of the Interchange is once again on the cards, and additional lanes are being planned for the Uriah Butler Highway (UBH). The Comprehensive National Transport Study (CNTS), currently being undertaken by Parsons Brinckerhoff (PB) on behalf of the Government, has unbelievably excluded the urban centres from its scope of work, and focusses only on improving highway travel.
For example, traffic and transport planning for the cities of POS, San Fernando, and the rapidly growing Borough of Chaguanas is not being catered for in the CNTS.
So what would happen after motorists fly over the west-to-south third-level ramp of the Interchange and speed down three lanes of highway and reach Chaguanas? How will this additional traffic get through the Borough? Everyone who is accustomed to travelling on the roads in Chaguanas knows that a journey that would normally take five minutes on a Sunday afternoon, can take one hour on a weekday. Improvement in highway capacity in the absence of appropriate urban centre transport solutions will exacerbate an already horrendous traffic situation.
Traffic congestion in urban Chaguanas is a result of the intensity and types of usage by vehicular and pedestrian traffic on roads that were never built to accommodate such uses. The explosive increase in urban population and commercial activity in the fastest growing town in Trinidad and Tobago is reacting to zero improvement in the traffic-carrying ability of the roads and streets of the Borough, and frustration levels are simmering. Implementation of a comprehensive traffic and transport plan is long overdue.
Chaguanas has been subjected to several piecemeal, ad hoc traffic management schemes, usually led by the Police or the Chaguanas Borough Corpora-tion without the input of sound engineering and planning analyses. There appears to be a lack of appreciation by both public and private sector bodies for the difference between the processes of traffic management and transport planning.
Transport planning is divided into two types: long-term, comprehensive, or strategic transport planning, and short- to medium-term transport planning. The aim of comprehensive transport planning is usually to provide investment planning for the next 20 years to facilitate the mobility and accessibility of people and goods and support the broader economic, social, and environmental objectives of the country.
Short- to medium-term transport planning (say two to five years) is concerned with obtaining maximum capacity or optimal operation from existing transport system facilities. This process is also known as transport systems management (TSM), which is a continuing, monitoring and adjustment of the working of the transport system by means of relatively low-cost techniques. Traffic management is a part of TSM, and focusses on adapting the use of the existing road network to improve the movement of people and goods in a safe and efficient manner without resorting to major new construction, and typically involves the following applications: intersection improvements; turn prohibitions; one-way streets; traffic signs and markings; geometric design; road widening; access control and management; parking management; auto-restricted zones.
In other words, traffic management only concentrates on measures to alleviate the symptoms of transportation problems and not root causes, and seeks solutions in the short term. Put another way: land use activity minus transport planning equals continuous traffic management problems. This means continuing to emphasize managing traffic only rather than managing transportation.
Chaguanas, like many other urban areas, has long outgrown these occasional traffic management schemes.
There is an urgent need for specially designated stopping bays must be painted along the following routes: Chaguanas Main Road; Southern Main Road; Rudranath Capildeo Street; Endeavour Road; John Street; and, De Verteuil Street.
There is a proliferation of PH taxis in Chaguanas not seen anywhere else in the country. They provide service at just about anytime of the day or night to particularly the out-of-the-way areas such Caparo, Tabaquite, round-d-road (meaning around Greater Chaguanas, such as Enterprise, Cunupia, etc). They are there when the maxis and taxis go home, such as when heavy rain falls and there is flooding and heavy traffic congestion, and especially on a Friday evening when there is no legal public transport vehicles available. Clearly there is a huge need for the planning, management and location of public transport service and facilities in Chaguanas.
To be continued next week.
Rae Furlonge
Traffic and Transportation Engineer
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Trinidad Express
Wednesday, October 4th 2006
Have money, spend money
Government throws dollars, not sense, at traffic woes (http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_business_mag?id=161023486)
By Raffique Shah
(http://www.trinidadexpress.com/shared/images/2006/10/04/bmag2.jpg)
Colm Imbert
COME what may, Government will proceed with the proposed Rapid Rail System (RRS).
Works and Transport Minister Colm Imbert said so in response that suggestions that Cabinet was proceeding with the RRS without the benefit of a proper feasibility study. The Minister said government's decision was based on a study done by the Indian consulting firm, RITES Ltd.
APETT, commenting on that study, charged: "That document .should not be considered as a feasibility or even a pre-feasibility report, but rather as a Concept Paper." In addition to APETT's concerns over Government's decision to proceed with the project, estimated to cost US$2.5 billion, studies by transportation experts elsewhere in the world show that rail remains a prohibitively expensive mass transit option, and that many countries and cities that opted for that mode would reverse their decisions if they had to do it again.
The main aim of any mass transit system is to be able to efficiently move as many commuters as possible to and from their destinations in the shortest possible time, and in relative comfort. There is little doubt that rail, especially where established many years ago, has met this criteria. But in today's world of modern technology, except for very long-distance travel, rail is proving to be almost an anachronism. Transport Statistics (Great Britain) data show that:
- In highway terms, rail rapid transport systems are so lightly loaded as to be substantially disused. The average flow per track has a range equivalent to 92 to 525 buses per day, each bus containing 20 people. That may be compared with a potential of up to 10,000 vehicles per day for a single lane of motor road managed to avoid congestion. The comparison suggests a catastrophic under use of valuable transport land.
(http://www.trinidadexpress.com/shared/images/2006/10/04/bmag3.jpg)
- In all cases the annual cost of capital plus estimated maintenance exceeds the fare receipts by a factor of greater than two.
The authors of that study also said: "Data from 1990 (on comparative fuel consumption) provided the equivalent of 51 passenger miles per gallon for Tyne and Wear and 55 for Strath Clyde (two rail systems). In comparison, buses would return 75 to 125 passenger miles per gallon. We conclude that, with the benefit of hindsight and of this data, none of these (rail) systems would have been built. An alternative may have been bus-ways open to commercial vehicles and to cars at certain times of the day. The modern option may be to control congestion by road pricing."
The T&T Government has opted for the rail alternative (working in conjunction with bus, maxi-taxi and water-taxi support) in the belief that an efficient RRS will encourage many persons to leave their private vehicles at home and use trains. Government has indicated it will enhance the PTSC bus fleet and is considering water-taxis that will connect Port of Spain and San Fernando. It has not projected plans for enhancing and/or policing the maxi-taxi services. Elsewhere in the world, rail attracting motorists has proved to be wishful thinking: if anything, such systems lure more people away from the existing public transport systems (bus, maxi-taxis, taxis and "PH" cars), which defeats the purpose of spending so much money to create an alternative mode of transport.
A main reason for this setback, besides the cultural aspect of "owning one's ride", is that rail does not offer "seamless commuting". In other words, people first need to get from their homes or workplaces to the nearest train stations. Then, having reached stations closest to their destinations, they need to take other means of transport to get to their final destinations. Besides high capital, maintenance and operating costs, this is one of the main weaknesses of the rapid rail system. Dr Rae Furlonge sums up the wooing or motorists to rail this way: "For non-auto transport, like rapid rail to be successful, it must be auto-competitive. This means that it must be widely available and provide a superior level of service. It must be so good that it will be chosen by large numbers of people for a wide variety of trips."
Government has also been advised to seriously consider other options before making a final, irrevocable decision on the RRS. In a response to the RITES report, Drs. Furlonge, Morris and Trevor Townsend said: "They (RITES and PB) should be asked to come up with the best alternative for solving the urban transportation problem. One must understand that a rail system, even if found feasible, may not be the best alternative." Many countries and very large cities are finding that Rapid Bus Transit (RBT), high occupancy vehicles (HOV) and high occupancy toll (HOT) lanes on existing or expanded highways is the way to go. In last week's article the point was made that Government's own transportation consultant, Parsons Brinkerhoff, has described the above alternatives as "the wave of the future". Capital costs in the latter are substantially lower than rail systems, as are their maintenance and operating costs. In America's west coast city of San Diego, that country's first "light rail city" (1981), rail accounts for only 0.2 per cent of work trips (Ted Balaker, Transportation Policy at Reason). "San Diego's first (rail) line was cheap, but subsequent extensions ballooned to five times the cost of the original line," he added.
Balaker argued: "Other aspects of San Diego's transportation policy are worth emulating. Take HOT lanes. On the Interstate 15 freeway, special lanes operate next to regular lanes, and since computers collect tolls electronically, there are no toll booths to slow down drivers. Tolls rise and fall with the rise and fall of traffic, which keeps cars moving at about 60 mph even during rush hour. HOT lanes offer commuters an escape route from congestion, and since cars funnel through them faster, they also relax congestion in the regular lanes. Allow buses to use the lanes without paying the toll and transit users can enjoy the unthinkable-fast and predictable travel times. Today, San Diego plans to build more HOT lanes, and many other areas-from San Francisco to Denver to Washington, DC-are moving toward the HOT concept."
Regarding the prospect of wooing people away from using their private vehicles in favour of public transport, a UCLA study, which projects Los Angeles' population to grow to 10.5 million by 2015, argues that "experience tells us that residents will change their travel behaviour as travel speeds change". The study also makes some of the very points against the expansion of rail made in this series, and in columns by Dr Rae Furlonge (Newsday). It continues: "In LA, as in most of North America, rail is an expensive, ineffective use of scarce resources that would be better used to support more cost-effective means of transportation. This includes expansion of the LA County bus system; improvement in the quality of bus services; reduction in bus fares; support for multi-passenger automobile travel; expansion of the HOV system and bus-ways; and implementation of peak-period pricing strategies, such as HOT lanes."
Besides decentralisation (shifting many government ministries, departments and agencies to towns and districts other than POS and San Fernando), which government has refused to even consider, there are many regulatory measures than can be put in place to curb the number of vehicles on the roads at any given time, and more so during peak traffic hours. Within recent years, vehicle ownership in this country has grown to one-in-three, way higher than world average. In Singapore, which is almost one-tenth our size, but with a population of four million and a per capita GDP of US$24,000 (twice that of Trinidad and Tobago), there is a Vehicle Quota System that limits vehicle growth to three per cent per annum. There are also vehicle use restraints through road and congestion pricing. By enforcing these systems, it was found that peak demand for private vehicle-use is on weekends, evenings and holidays, emphasising the need for private cars for recreational purposes.
The Vehicle Quota bidding system, which allocates a limited supply of vehicle certificates, has shown a notable demand despite high car ownership costs. Licensing a vehicle costs US$10,937.00, almost one-third the vehicle's purchase price. The artificially high fixed cost of ownership in Singapore is a barrier to entry (to certain roads at specific times), not vehicle use. Since 2003 the government has been relaxing the quota system, but at the same time managing travel demand more equitably through road pricing. A main pillar of the latter system is car-sharing, which is also being pursued in Japan. The concept of having multiple users share a fleet of vehicles first emerged in Japan in the late 1990s. By then, such system was already in place in several European countries. And recently, the city of London imposed an almost punitive tax on motorists seeking to access central London in private cars.
Whatever restraints are applied to curb the number of private cars using our roads, the measures must be accompanied by enhancement in the public transport system, including car parks where people may leave their vehicles safely for the day, and shuttle services in main cities and towns. Dr Philbert Morris, in his Softcom report presented to the Ministry of Works, made reference to the poor state of City Gate, and recommendations for its improvement to meet international standards. He also pointed to deficiencies in the maxi-taxi system that must be corrected before many commuters are comfortable with it. The report stated: "In many areas taxi stands are the major cause of congestion, because of both their location and the behaviour of drivers. Roadway space for taxi stands is a scarce resource and must be regulated. Stands need to be policed to enforce queue discipline, and to prevent drivers from playing for hire outside the stand. We need to have a clearly established Authority for Public Transport. The maxi-taxis, the main providers of public transport, do not behave in a disciplined fashion because the structure of the system encourages competition on the road."
To sum up, the realities that face government and commuters, and decisions to deal with them are as follows:
- Too many vehicles on limited roadways have led to traffic jams almost around-the-clock not only in approaches to Port of Spain, but in towns as disparate as Chaguanas, Penal and Rio Claro.
- Except for taxation (on both new and foreign-used vehicles), there are no mechanisms in place to reduce the number of vehicles on the roads. There is no obsolescence programme to remove unserviceable vehicles from the system.
- Government intends to proceed with its approximately 80-mile rapid rail project. The estimated capital cost is currently US$2.5 billion. However, there is an abundance of evidence to show that this will, at the very least, double before the project is completed. Maintenance and operating costs are projected to be around TT$3 billion per year. This cost will be borne by taxpayers virtually in perpetuity.
- While there are plans to create some HOV and HOT lanes on highways, they are few and far between, certainly insufficient to impact on the volume of traffic on the nation's roads.
- With government's decision to rejuvenate Port of Spain, the capital city will continue to attract large numbers of people on a daily basis (for work and conducting business). Entrances to the city remain unchanged, and will hardly change because of space constraint. What these tell us is that whatever new traffic measures government takes, there will be gross bottlenecks at the city's entrances.
- The overpass at the CR/Butler intersection will hardly mitigate traffic woes on those two highways, far less solve them.
- Government's plans for expanding existing highways, and building new ones (Golconda to Point Fortin, San Fernando to Mayaro, Arima to Manzanilla) will improve travel times to these far-flung district. But they will not impact on the traffic congestion in approaches to many city and town-centres.
- Rail and water-taxis may provide faster travel times between Port of Spain and San Fernando. In both cases, though, their success will depend on support facilities (like secure car parks, park-and-ride facilities and pedestrian comfort). Both are costly. In the case of water-taxis, the cost of wharves to accommodate passengers must be factored into the projected cost.
- Government has refused to entertain advice from local experts in traffic management and transport engineering.
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anudda set ah money belng spent where it is not needed
give de money to the police, and NOT for no Blimp
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DCS and Flex, thanks for posting these articles; living abroad I did not have a clear understanding of the nature of the proposed project as well as the discussions surroundding it. I have a few comments.
While having a rail system seems to fill some with a sense of pride, and on the surface seems like an answer to our chronic transportation problems, I believe that there are several practical hurdles to overcome which, makes this a REALLY BAD IDEA. I am (usually) in favour of mass transportation systems as opposed to (especially what obtains here) congested, single user personal transportation alternatives, but in Trinidad, I believe that we need to look at alternetaive (some of which were mentioned in the articels posted.
I am concerned about things like the impact on the environment as well as social impacts. It is a fact that implementing a large system such as this calls into question issues around land use. Apart from being capital intensive, a project such as this would appear to be land intensive. I am referring (in particular) to the "East West corridor". Will there have to be a significant re-possession/purchase of land along the proposed rail routes to make this viable, and what happens to the communities along the proposed route(s)? Will resettlement have to take place? To where? Take as a practical example, the area around Curepe/St. Augustine, or San Juan. Can anyone anticipate the effort in terms of capital, land use, disruption that would have to be extended? What would be the social, commercial and environmental effects?
Let us also consider the idea of ongoing maintenance. We all should know that we have not been very good at maintaining public works (I cite City Gate as an example). What is the plan for maintenance of plant and infrastructure after the fact? Can we assume a commitment to good maintenence practices after the system has been built? After a new political party with different agendas comes to power? What is the commitment to training so that local staff can effectively maintain and operate the system (IT systems, control systems, traffic integration management systems etc)?
I was pleased at the comments made about the actual economic feasibility of rail systems. I did not see from the Government documentation, any analysis of what amount of ridership it would take to make this system self sustaining. Has this been thought through, or are we to assumee Govt. subsidy of an un-economic enterprise (sounds like the old days of the 70s/80s eh)? Again, if so, what happens when governments change? What is the optimum number of stops that make it viable, providing adequate ridership?
With all of this, though, I remain a proponent of mass transit systems... where applicable...
I believe that (and the authors of one of the articles makes this important point) that this is a rushed deal that is being pushed through without any sort of proper planning, impact assessment studies, feasibility studies etc. It just seems like a good idea to someone and that's what we are running with...
I hope that I am way off base here, and the concerns raised by myself and others have been thought out and addressed, but considering our history of implementing large capital projects..... welllll...
I usually don't have much time for APETT, but their analysis raised some good points, along with Dr. Morris (a very intelligent man).
I would like to think that we are on the right track, and the people who are qualified to provide solution are allowed to do their jobs.
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anudda set ah money belng spent where it is not needed
give de money to the police, and NOT for no Blimp
What do you mean where it is not needed? Have you ever had to wait for a maxi on a morning anywhere along the east-west corridor during peak periods? Have you tried to go Chaguanas during non-peak period? Have you been on any one of our major highways, in particular the Churchill-Roosevelt, any time during the day? It is a major issue that needs addressing, whether it is by rapid transit systems, car pooling legislation or removal of traffic lights on the highways.
And for whoever asked the proposed ferry system is from San Fernando to POS. The price is supposed to be the same as what one would pay by maxi if I remember the report correctly. As berris said, unless they using some river we eh know about it cyah work east-west.
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I for one am very happy they have given transport this much attention.
But tell me they not moving just like JW....my way or the highway.
This form of leadership is quite intriguing....get things done at all costs and ignore all protestations and effort consuming protocol.
The outcome tends to be that something gets done but not anywhere close to optimal and sometimes far from it.
We crying for things to get done.....is that the only way they know how :-[
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I'm seeing a lot of comments about drawbacks of the proposed mass transport system. My take is that something needs to get done, it just has to. Up till 9:30 am you could still see masses of people waiting by the roadways of La Horquetta and Maloney on the east west corridor, lord know how bad it is in places like Chaguanas. Yet we want to cry down the productivity of our citizens, chances are the person able to arrive to work at 8am will probably get more done than someone reaching at 9:30am hence leading to an overall more productive society and country.
I am interested in hearing about alternate viable solutions to this rail system
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Trinidad & Tobago Newsday
Monday 26th December 2005
Got bus?
They are flexible and offer cost advantages over traditional roadway transit
By Rae Furlonge Traffic and Transportation Engineer
This is part six in our series on the transportation system in TT. This week we examine another mode option for public transport: Bus Rapid Transit (BRT). The BRT system is based on the concept of utilising the most popular features of Light Rail Transit (LRT) with the flexibility and cost advantages of traditional roadway transit. It can come in a variety of different forms, from dedicated busways that have their own rights-of-way (including traffic signal preferential treatment and pre-emption at intersections) to bus services that utilise High Occupancy Volume (HOV) lanes, and dedicated highway lanes to limited stop buses on conventional routes. The key argument in favour of BRT systems is that they provide a higher quality of service (similar to LRT systems), but at greatly reduced capital investment in vehicles and right-of-way. Key to this assumption is the utilisation of existing roadways, so that capital costs in these areas are only for the vehicles themselves and additional street furniture required for operation. BRT allows for incremental construction and implementation and can be easily tailored to meet the specific transportation needs and opportunities within individual neighbourhoods and transportation corridors.
Insofar as BRT can utilise dedicated rights-of-way it offers advantages over regular bus service, including service frequency, increased capacity, and speed. Fares are collected upon entering an enclosed bus station or shelter area prior to bus arrivals (similar to how fares are collected at a kiosk before entering a subway system). This speeds up the trip for everyone. This system would allow passengers to board through all doors of a stopped bus. Many BRT systems also use low floor buses or high level platforms with high floor buses to speed up passenger boarding and enhance accessibility. BRT systems can operate at speeds nearly twice as fast as conventional buses and roughly equivalent to light rail, getting people quickly to their destination.
FLEXBILITY
A major advantage of BRT (and bus transit in general) is its flexibility in meeting changes in the shape of urban development and in changes in demand in terms of both quantity and quality. If necessary, existing bus routes can be modified almost overnight at virtually no cost. Expanded or new services can be introduced quickly and at relatively low initial cost. And all types of bus transit may be provided by the private sector, and so the financial burden on the state may be reduced. Another advantage is that since buses using busways or bus lanes can disperse to several terminals in urban areas, very high concentrations of passengers in buses can be minimised. Similarly, outbound buses are able to go out into suburban areas after leaving busways or bus lanes. In other words, passengers can be taken close to their destinations at both ends of these high-capacity facilities.
RIGHT OF WAY?
Opponents of bus rapid transit initiatives argue that BRT is not an effective replacement for light rail or subway services. They argue that in order for BRT to have greatest effect, it must have its own right-of-way; and BRT operating in mixed traffic is subject to the same congestion and delays as do ordinary buses. Furthermore, signal priority systems might cause severe disruptions to traffic flow on major cross streets. They argue that this merely redistributes, rather than reduces, the traffic congestion problems that BRT systems are designed to alleviate. BRT also suffers form a serious image problem. In many places, particularly in the United States, buses of any kind are far from attractive to middle-and upper-class riders than light rail and subway systems, suffering from resulting low ridership among segments of the population that prefer travel by automobile to using any sort of public transportation whatsoever.
While many BRT systems utilise state-of-the-art buses, BRT opponents insist that "a bus is still a bus." The city of Curitiba in Brazil is held as a paragon of urban planning excellence. In 2001 it had a population of 1.6 million people. The city has implemented a map plan which provides strict control on urban sprawl, a reduction to traffic in the downtown area preservation of Curitiba's historic sector, and a convenient and affordable public transit system. The city has a notably efficient transportation system, including devotion of lanes on major streets for a BRT system. In 1992, they introduced bi-articulated buses which are long, split into three sections (two accordion-type joints instead of one as in the cases of one articulated bus), each unit is 25m in length and is capable of carrying up to 270 passengers.
Their goal was to shelve plans for LRT through the bi-articulated concept, because the 21 km LRT system would cost US$400 million to build and would take at least two years to be completed. The bi-articulated project cost US$40 million and was operating in six months. The units are run by private companies, so that the largest part of the total investment was financed by the private sector. On reserved busways passenger volumes of 15-13,000 passengers per hour per lane for standard buses and 20-30,000 passengers per hour per lane for larger buses can be expected. The construction of exclusive busways in combination with at-grade intersections may cost between US$ two to seven million per kilometre. Next week, we examine ferryboats and their potential for intra-island travel.
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PM dismisses transport project detractors.
By: Juhel Browne (Express).
Government's proposed $15 billion rapid rail project will go full speed ahead. Prime Minister Patrick Manning said yesterday the project will go ahead as scheduled, despite calls from several construction industry interest groups for Government to put a halt to the initiative, as they claim the procurement process being used is flawed and prone to corruption.
In response to a question on those criticisms yesterday, Manning defended the existing procurement process and said it will ensure the right contractor gets the job and savings to the taxpayers.
"The railway project must be built. On what basis must we not build the railway project? I would like somebody to say that. What's the objection to it?" he said.
Manning did so while speaking to reporters after he toured the site of the Waterfront Development Project in downtown Port of Spain, which has an estimated cost of $1.7 billion.
He said the Government is using a new procurement process for the railway project and will be making a comprehensive statement on the matter, but did not say when this would be done.
On Tuesday interest groups opposed to the project, including the local chapter of Transparency International, said the procurement system leaves room for corruption.
Yesterday, Manning said, "The rapid rail system is the largest project ever to be built in Trinidad and Tobago and for this purpose we have introduced a new process of procurement, different from anything that has ever been done here, but consistent with the systems that are being used in the developed countries of the world.
"... We are not afraid to try new systems and in the case of the rapid rail system, we are putting an approach in place that will give use the best chance of success at the lowest cost."
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So why was the first rail system cancelled?
Anyone could comment...just wondering if we wouldn't follow that same path.
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From what I heard it was a directive from Dr. Williams. I think it had something to do with maintenance costs.
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The feasibility study (or lack of one) should be buried in this thread somewhere.
If I remember...I thought the study said rail mightn be the best bet. Cud be wrong.
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The old rail system was ru by P.T.S.C. The Public Transportation Safety Corporation. The old rail was real cool, the government of the day made the big BIG mistake of ending it and replacing it with Buses....and the Priority Bus Route was constructed as the corridor to replace the old rail.
World over train/rail transport has been much more efficient and cleaner than bus transport, which acts merely as a way for short distance mass transit.
I am all for a rail syatem in T&T, but am wary as always whne billions of dollars are being spent and the accounting/bidding procss may be flawed.
Oh Lord boy, when will T&T get it right? The money will not keep flowing as it is.....steups.
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they cant even take care of a bus..yuh expect them to look after a rail-car..ah could done see the vandalizing taking place..it going to give some of them people who is watch the shit on tv to do the 'american' thing..steups.
what they have to do is get rid of all them traffic lights,build the interchange for the Gran Bazzaar area,make the Bus Route legal for everybody,make South Quay a lot wider down by the lighthouse to get rid of that major bottleneck,widen Wrightson road all the way down to mucurapo..and if they want to make the Port bigger and expand..let them reclaim more flecking land.
i sure it have many people who have much better ideas than me anyway...we people is just have our head up our ass..and dont want to learn anything or see what things are implemented in other places.
steups, you only complaining because it eh UNC project...double steups...stop being political, the last rail system was good and Eric f**k dat up with ah set ah bus dat only polluting de place.
Reclaiming land is so f**king damaging t de environment eh..all de damn mangrove gone along with de fiddler crabs, cocnh and other life systems.
widening de roads is an option but dat eh solving de amount ah cars on de road..and de emmissions.
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i not a civil eng, but i feel that heat go mash up dem lines and make it real hard to maintain.....lawd ah agree with feliz again ::)
rail roads running thru deserts and icy places...de rails have gaps to accomodate expansion and contraction.
My issue is the accountability, somewthing Trinis eh know NUTTEN about.
Warmonga haul yuh ass....why yuh always against anything positive in T&T...go sit dong and learn to listen to soaca ad steelpan first, appreciate dat and den talk about what going on in T&T!!!
steups
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I think that in the last rail system, there was a kinda thrill seeking habit coming into fore. teenagers were starting to hop onto the trains and there were a numebr of deaths and injuries. and of course the authorities couldn't do anything to stop it. I don't know what is the type of fast rail sysem being proposed, becausse of course again that is a 'state secret' and I guess we won't know until it is done.
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I based my opinion on what APETT and the traffic engineer have said. I always thought rail was the best option and was very happy when they made the announcement. Is only after these people spoke up did I take issue and it has more to do with the same thing you talking about...accountability and following proper procedure.
steups, you only complaining because it eh UNC project...double steups...stop being political, the last rail system was good and Eric f**k dat up with ah set ah bus dat only polluting de place.
Yuh claim TI does make baseless statements but dat rubbish above is yuh classic complaint about TI if you ask me...no insult intended TI.
Is a bloody merry go round? Make rail...destroy rail...make rail again..den what?
You talking about accountability but what...it doh count in the beginning of the project too? What so hard in following proper procedure...is not like it have red tape to hold the thing up.
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TT no one eh saying we eh need ah rail system. lemme speak for mehs elf i thinkw e do.
btu is de way de pastor going about it.
no accountbaility . dat trend hadda stop
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TT no one eh saying we eh need ah rail system. lemme speak for mehs elf i thinkw e do.
btu is de way de pastor going about it.
no accountbaility . dat trend hadda stop
Ihave acknowledged that aleady in many posts. I agree that we need accountability and that T&T needs to develop a system to deal with such matters.
Is de PNM vs UNC ting I dey with....why Panday eh put such ah system in place?
hahahahahahahaha
anyway see a pevious comentmade by me o dis matter
The old rail system was ru by P.T.S.C. The Public Transportation Safety Corporation. The old rail was real cool, the government of the day made the big BIG mistake of ending it and replacing it with Buses....and the Priority Bus Route was constructed as the corridor to replace the old rail.
World over train/rail transport has been much more efficient and cleaner than bus transport, which acts merely as a way for short distance mass transit.
I am all for a rail syatem in T&T, but am wary as always whne billions of dollars are being spent and the accounting/bidding procss may be flawed.
Oh Lord boy, when will T&T get it right? The money will not keep flowing as it is.....steups.
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dont get me wrong, this idea is a great idea, but the procurement process is flawed and is subject to criticism bc of the patronage system that exists in tt right now, the corruption is high level corrpution and the pm not addressing it which leaves him open to criticism bc he allowing bobol tuh rule... :flamethrower:
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I think that in the last rail system, there was a kinda thrill seeking habit coming into fore. teenagers were starting to hop onto the trains and there were a numebr of deaths and injuries. and of course the authorities couldn't do anything to stop it. I don't know what is the type of fast rail sysem being proposed, becausse of course again that is a 'state secret' and I guess we won't know until it is done.
is this a problem with transparency or the reporting in the media? with the FOIA, it seems the tools are there for the public to know what the gov't plans are.
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TT no one eh saying we eh need ah rail system. lemme speak for mehs elf i thinkw e do.
btu is de way de pastor going about it.
no accountbaility . dat trend hadda stop
Ihave acknowledged that aleady in many posts. I agree that we need accountability and that T&T needs to develop a system to deal with such matters.
Is de PNM vs UNC ting I dey with....why Panday eh put such ah system in place?
hahahahahahahaha
anyway see a pevious comentmade by me o dis matter
The old rail system was ru by P.T.S.C. The Public Transportation Safety Corporation. The old rail was real cool, the government of the day made the big BIG mistake of ending it and replacing it with Buses....and the Priority Bus Route was constructed as the corridor to replace the old rail.
World over train/rail transport has been much more efficient and cleaner than bus transport, which acts merely as a way for short distance mass transit.
I am all for a rail syatem in T&T, but am wary as always whne billions of dollars are being spent and the accounting/bidding procss may be flawed.
Oh Lord boy, when will T&T get it right? The money will not keep flowing as it is.....steups.
i hear yuh man.
we do need ah good rail ssytem fast. but manning acting liek george bush now..
want to dismiss detractors. u cyah do dat..steups, especially when it relates to de field of the person.
u cant tell all dem engineers ...dey eh know what they talkign bout.
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TT no one eh saying we eh need ah rail system. lemme speak for mehs elf i thinkw e do.
btu is de way de pastor going about it.
no accountbaility . dat trend hadda stop
Ihave acknowledged that aleady in many posts. I agree that we need accountability and that T&T needs to develop a system to deal with such matters.
Is de PNM vs UNC ting I dey with....why Panday eh put such ah system in place?
hahahahahahahaha
anyway see a pevious comentmade by me o dis matter
The old rail system was ru by P.T.S.C. The Public Transportation Safety Corporation. The old rail was real cool, the government of the day made the big BIG mistake of ending it and replacing it with Buses....and the Priority Bus Route was constructed as the corridor to replace the old rail.
World over train/rail transport has been much more efficient and cleaner than bus transport, which acts merely as a way for short distance mass transit.
I am all for a rail syatem in T&T, but am wary as always whne billions of dollars are being spent and the accounting/bidding procss may be flawed.
Oh Lord boy, when will T&T get it right? The money will not keep flowing as it is.....steups.
i hear yuh man.
we do need ah good rail ssytem fast. but manning acting liek george bush now..
want to dismiss detractors. u cyah do dat..steups, especially when it relates to de field of the person.
u cant tell all dem engineers ...dey eh know what they talkign bout.
But he getting away with it
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he is getting away with i, becasue we have no viable opposition in T&T.
BIG TIEF PANDAY cyar stand up and say ah damn ting about accountability and honesty...he jes cyar do dat! De whole UNC has been compromised, Manning can act any old how because his party remains the only choice ....think about it, Manning or Panday?
Bad choics, buh if yuh have ah brain and have tuh choose..is no contest!
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I think that in the last rail system, there was a kinda thrill seeking habit coming into fore. teenagers were starting to hop onto the trains and there were a numebr of deaths and injuries. and of course the authorities couldn't do anything to stop it. I don't know what is the type of fast rail sysem being proposed, becausse of course again that is a 'state secret' and I guess we won't know until it is done.
is this a problem with transparency or the reporting in the media? with the FOIA, it seems the tools are there for the public to know what the gov't plans are.
the real problem is a perception problem.
when yuh have ah government in fact ah series ah governments who act aloof and feel dat dey is rulers rather dan managers den yuh have dis trouble.
steups, I eh see no evidence ah corruption...as yet..but those who favour de opposition will see what dey want tuh see.
Dat eh tuh say dat corruption eh dey eh.....
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People want railway now says Imbert
By Gail Alexander
Surveys by Government confirm that 90 per cent of the population is in favour of the reintroduction of the railway in T&T, Works Minister Colm Imbert said yesterday:
“ To be blunt—the people want the railway and they want it now! As a responsible Government, we cannot ignore the will of the people in favour of a small serving group,” Imbert added in a statement to Parliament yesterday.
He completely dismissed concerns raised this week by the Joint Consultative Council, the T&T Manufacturers Association and the T&T Transparency Institute.
The groups called for a halt to the rapid rail system pending further studies on its viability, the establishment of a transit authority and a two-stage tendering process.
But Imbert slapped this down yesterday in a lengthy address supporting the case for the rail system.
“This recommendation has been pulled out of a hat by this distinguished group of construction industry professionals, without even the benefit of a pre-feasibility study—the very thing they are now demanding the Government undertake before proceeding with the rail project.
“Therefore, this recommendation cannot be taken seriously. It fails the very test they have set for Government and it is irresposible and unprofessional of these groups to demand a virtual dismantling of existing transport systems to suit their own sectarian interests, without in-depth analysis, the minister said.”
He said the groups’ suggestion to buy more buses would be more costly than the rail system, since it would require providing more roads for this also.
Imbert noted various local, Canadian and Indian studies done in the last 40 years up to this year, which he said confirmed the need for a rail system:
“We are now at three times the international traffic benchmark beyond which a railway should be introduced,” Imbert said.
He asked why the UNC Government had not undertaken the project when the UNC also had several studies on the issue done, attesting to the need.
He said all the information was also available to local industry professionals for years:
“It appears that left to them they would theorise and hypothecate forever and tilt at windmills like Don Quixote while the solution stares us all in the face and the travelling public becomes more and more disgruntled,” he added.
“Government has no intention of allowing self-seeking provocateurs or misguided interest groups to derail our transportation infrastructure programme.”
He said:
“ Wer are going full speed ahead with the railway project and we are on target to select our preferred contractor within the next two months if not before.”
Imbert also reiterated details of the procurement process, which had also been disputed by the groups. He said:
“Therefore, we have engaged in total and complete transparency over and above the standards set out in the White Paper on procurement that they keep referring to,” Imbert added.
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Who are these people?? When was dis survey taken?? How many people take de survey?? Was it all PNM dat makeup dis??
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I vote on dat survey 1 night in Villa Capri.
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Surveys by Government confirm that 90 per cent of the population is in favour of the reintroduction of the railway in T&T, Works Minister Colm Imbert said yesterday:
“ To be blunt—the people want the railway and they want it now! As a responsible Government, we cannot ignore the will of the people in favour of a small serving group,” Imbert added in a statement to Parliament yesterday.
now why cant they use the same Mr.NiceGuy talk when it comes to the smelters? ::)
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Surveys by Government confirm that 90 per cent of the population is in favour of the reintroduction of the railway in T&T, Works Minister Colm Imbert said yesterday:
“ To be blunt—the people want the railway and they want it now! As a responsible Government, we cannot ignore the will of the people in favour of a small serving group,” Imbert added in a statement to Parliament yesterday.
now why cant they use the same Mr.NiceGuy talk when it comes to the smelters? ::)
steups.....haul yuh you ent see ass :rotfl:
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He cudda be a little more specific about these "various local, Canadian and Indian studies done in the last 40 years up to this year".
And what eactly is their self-seving interest?
“ 'This recommendation has been pulled out of a hat by this distinguished group of construction industry professionals, without even the benefit of a pre-feasibility study—the very thing they are now demanding the Government undertake before proceeding with the rail project.
'Therefore, this recommendation cannot be taken seriously. It fails the very test they have set for Government and it is irresposible and unprofessional of these groups to demand a virtual dismantling of existing transport systems to suit their own sectarian interests, without in-depth analysis, the minister said.' ”
This man is make a habit of talking non-sense. Looking for ther reply cuz they will call him on it.
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Trinidad Express
Saturday, December 16th 2006
Imbert sees 'sour grapes' among rail opponents (http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=161068497)
Juhel Browne
Diego Martin East MP Colm Imbert, centre, speaks to Caroni East MP Ganga Singh during yesterday's sitting of Parliament. At right is Diego Martin Central MP Ken Valley.
Some construction industry representatives who are now criticising the procurement process for the $15 billion rapid railway project belong to a consortium that failed to get the bid for the job, says Works and Transport Minister Colm Imbert.
Imbert said yesterday the consortium, called SNC Lavalin, contains a significant number of local construction firms, including contractors and engineers, as only two consortiums remain in the final bid round.
"Included in this list of subcontractors submitted by the SNC-Lavalin consortium, the consortium that didn't make the grade, are companies associated with some of the loudest voices among the special interest groups and professional bodies who are now demanding that the Government stop the project," Imbert said.
He made the assertion during an hour-long, 28-page presentation during yesterday's sitting of the House of Representatives at the Red House, Port of Spain.
Imbert spoke on the issue as several interest groups, including the Association of Professional Engineers of Trinidad and Tobago, have said the existing procurement process for the project is open to corruption and favours international bidders. He highlighted one of the local SNC subcontractors who are among those opposing the project.
"These loud voices include the current president of the Association of Professional Engineers of Trinidad and Tobago, who has been at the forefront of the call to stop the project whilst his company, BBFL Consultants, is prominently named as an engineering consultant in the SNC-Lavalin tender which has failed," Imbert said.
He then identified the other local subcontractors of the overall 22 SNC subcontractors, saying he was doing so in the interest of full public disclosure.
A copy of his presentation identified them as follows: Earth Investigations Systems, Yorke Structures Ltd, Professional Presentations, Softcom Ltd, Esprit Consultants, Geometrics Surveying, Eco-Engineering Consultants, Newel Lewis Broadbridge, Engineering consultants, Dominion Capital, Welsh-morris and Associates, Coosal's Construction, Seereeram Brothers and Junior Sammy Contractors.
He said some of those belonging to the SNC consortium that are now objecting to the rapid rail project procurement process have participated in it since March 2006, with no objections until now.
"In other words, if they can't get the project, nobody else must get it," he said.
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he is getting away with i, becasue we have no viable opposition in T&T.
BIG TIEF PANDAY cyar stand up and say ah damn ting about accountability and honesty...he jes cyar do dat! De whole UNC has been compromised, Manning can act any old how because his party remains the only choice ....think about it, Manning or Panday?
Bad choics, buh if yuh have ah brain and have tuh choose..is no contest!
panday gettin phased out fass fass, manning fraid ramesh bad, so it will be interesting when ramesh take de reins eventually for the general in 2007, however manning under pressure bc bakr talking and telling all about manning's devious deeds, alot of the citizens losing trust in de pnm...
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the blasted reason we have the traffic problems we do today - and for those of you not here lemme tell yuh the traffic ignorant these days - is because there was no forward planning. nobody bothered to think oh we building house we might have to build the infrastructure for it. seems to me all these people doing is asking the gov't to stop and think a bit before implementing something that may or may not work. and which 90% of the population demanding it? i clearly slept through the referendum. >:(
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he is getting away with i, becasue we have no viable opposition in T&T.
BIG TIEF PANDAY cyar stand up and say ah damn ting about accountability and honesty...he jes cyar do dat! De whole UNC has been compromised, Manning can act any old how because his party remains the only choice ....think about it, Manning or Panday?
Bad choics, buh if yuh have ah brain and have tuh choose..is no contest!
panday gettin phased out fass fass, manning fraid ramesh bad, so it will be interesting when ramesh take de reins eventually for the general in 2007, however manning under pressure bc bakr talking and telling all about manning's devious deeds, alot of the citizens losing trust in de pnm...
noone is afraind ah ramesh fella.
ramesh has no morals at all. in some ways he worse dan panday, he backstab panday, is he fault panday get in trouble....he get fire, he know panday is ah big crook, yet he hugging him and sticking wit him?
steups.
no balls, power grabbing, power hungry fools.
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no balls, power grabbing, power hungry fools.
dais no the definition for 99% of politicians? How yuh cud vex with Ramesh for what he did...
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no balls, power grabbing, power hungry fools.
dais no the definition for 99% of politicians? How yuh cud vex with Ramesh for what he did...
take win with dat yes...allyuh real good, and allyuh want to know why de governments we get so f**ked up.
***sigh***
defend yuh party brother..defend it!
ps...are you aware of the ramesh/unc/panday saga?
I feel dat if yuh knew it yuh would not post such shit.
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all yuh hear mi.. Once PNM running Trinidad de only ting geting build is Cemetery..
war..
"support your local Morg, vote PNM"
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my father went to school went imbert, he was smart but ah real imps and a#$hole... he talkin out he a#$..
steups your family know everybody and went to sunday school, primary school, and college with everybody.
steups.
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If yuh rant about it here before then yes I know.
Feel free to hold on to that refrain about political affiliation if you think it helps you...I don't do PR work for anyone like you do for the PNM. And because I criticize the current government u decide to cast me as "ah UNC"....dais what allyuh PNM till Panday dead is do now? :D
Why you can't accept someone being objective about individuals without listening to propaganda from people like you who hate one man so much u will put a slant on any issue if you feel it will somehow keep his party out of power. Yuh credibility lil low when it come to certain isues cuz it seem like the ends justify the means for you.
Ramesh sold out Panday cuz he wanted more power....dais yuh story? So what? He was the Attorney General and he did his job. Call him Judas if you want but I don't care if he doesn't have party loyalty...matter of fact I prefer that to someone who will sweep things under the rug.
APETT and Rae Furlong is UNC too? Wa bout the anti-smelter people? Polished Hoe too?
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If yuh rant about it here before then yes I know.
Feel free to hold on to that refrain about political affiliation if you think it helps you...I don't do PR work for anyone like you do for the PNM. And because I criticize the current government u decide to cast me as "ah UNC"....dais what allyuh PNM till Panday dead is do now? :D
Why you can't accept someone being objective about individuals without listening to propaganda from people like you who hate one man so much u will put a slant on any issue if you feel it will somehow keep his party out of power. Yuh credibility lil low when it come to certain isues cuz it seem like the ends justify the means for you.
Ramesh sold out Panday cuz he wanted more power....dais yuh story? So what? He was the Attorney General and he did his job. Call him Judas if you want but I don't care if he doesn't have party loyalty...matter of fact I prefer that to someone who will sweep things under the rug.
APETT and Rae Furlong is UNC too? Wa bout the anti-smelter people? Polished Hoe too?
eh wah??
my party is
FAAD- F*** All Ah Dem
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The old rail system was ru by P.T.S.C. The Public Transportation Safety Corporation. The old rail was real cool, the government of the day made the big BIG mistake of ending it and replacing it with Buses....and the Priority Bus Route was constructed as the corridor to replace the old rail.
World over train/rail transport has been much more efficient and cleaner than bus transport, which acts merely as a way for short distance mass transit.
I am all for a rail syatem in T&T, but am wary as always whne billions of dollars are being spent and the accounting/bidding procss may be flawed.
Oh Lord boy, when will T&T get it right? The money will not keep flowing as it is.....steups.
Where does the rail system, bus system and ferry service fall within the context of the master transportation plan? I forget...what plan?
Just curious, isnt it a light rail being discussed?
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Where does the rail system, bus system and ferry service fall within the context of the master transportation plan? I forget...what plan?
Just curious, isnt it a light rail being discussed?
You asking for a plan!!
TT I think this person is a UNC!!!!
:rotfl:
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Where does the rail system, bus system and ferry service fall within the context of the master transportation plan? I forget...what plan?
Just curious, isnt it a light rail being discussed?
You asking for a plan!!
TT I think this person is a UNC!!!!
:rotfl:
anybody who ask for accountability and transparency is a UNC to tt :devil:
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He cudda be a little more specific about these "various local, Canadian and Indian studies done in the last 40 years up to this year".
i was looking at the annual factbook published by the economist (2005 i think), and t&t ranks in the top ten for density of road networks. will try to get the info later.
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He cudda be a little more specific about these "various local, Canadian and Indian studies done in the last 40 years up to this year".
i was looking at the annual factbook published by the economist (2005 i think), and t&t ranks in the top ten for density of road networks. will try to get the info later.
could be true yes.....we havea lto of raods..but what kinda nay kind..or just main raods or secondary roads includied
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If yuh rant about it here before then yes I know.
Feel free to hold on to that refrain about political affiliation if you think it helps you...I don't do PR work for anyone like you do for the PNM. And because I criticize the current government u decide to cast me as "ah UNC"....dais what allyuh PNM till Panday dead is do now? :D
Why you can't accept someone being objective about individuals without listening to propaganda from people like you who hate one man so much u will put a slant on any issue if you feel it will somehow keep his party out of power. Yuh credibility lil low when it come to certain isues cuz it seem like the ends justify the means for you.
Ramesh sold out Panday cuz he wanted more power....dais yuh story? So what? He was the Attorney General and he did his job. Call him Judas if you want but I don't care if he doesn't have party loyalty...matter of fact I prefer that to someone who will sweep things under the rug.
APETT and Rae Furlong is UNC too? Wa bout the anti-smelter people? Polished Hoe too?
fella I doh need to get justification from you or anyone else. And my rangs are rants to you because you are a UNC supporter..deny it if you wish! I could care less for corrupt politicans from anywhere, be they American Trini or Canadian etc. I am a great advocate for transparency and accountability. Ramesh DID NOT do his job when he was AG, he slid info after he was out of power to get back at Panday..dais my story, and it happens to be true and available for anyone who desrires to research the truth, he turned the info into the incoming PNM, if he was so concerned, why didnt he do HIS JOB when he was AG?
steups. Sweep under rug< he could hide behnd a g-string drawers he so shameless. I hate Panday yes, becasue he does align heself with spinleless tiefs all de time, allyuh does cry fuh accountability and transparency but want me tuh shut up when I telling de trute about Panday and de UNC, maybe allyuh doh like dat kinda transparency?
When did de UNC ever practice transparency and accountability? With de Biche school? Incogen? Piarco? LOndon flat? de millions in de bank in London? steups.
Jokers oui. If any PNMite get ketch jail fuh dem, same fuh de UNC!!!
....smelter in allyuh ass...allyuh want diversity yet allyuh complaining about diversity of de economy....although I will admit dat I am concerned about de high handed manner of the ruling party and the lack of proper studies, but dis is a symptom of T&T politics fuh so long...UNC too! It needs to be adressed, bu in a small country like T&T we doomed to face dis shit, especially when we have opposition party like de UNC..steups. all we do in T&T is recycle old politicans anyway.
And yuh eh lie, I will do whatever I can in my power to keep a convicted criminal from ever having anything to do with governance in T&T...why would you want convicts leading anyway DCS? answer dat!
and for yuh info, i doh put slanton nutten, disprove meh statements about Panday nah...ah dare yuh and yuh acolyte TI.
steups.
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oh and yuh say de Government eh do studies?
yuh saying Colm Imbert lying? and what about de unc dem studies flawed too? Man griping cuz dey eh gey ah share ah de pie...steups and de UNC bitching cuz dem eh getting to tief....
By Gail Alexander
Surveys by Government confirm that 90 per cent of the population is in favour of the reintroduction of the railway in T&T, Works Minister Colm Imbert said yesterday:
“ To be blunt—the people want the railway and they want it now! As a responsible Government, we cannot ignore the will of the people in favour of a small serving group,” Imbert added in a statement to Parliament yesterday.
He completely dismissed concerns raised this week by the Joint Consultative Council, the T&T Manufacturers Association and the T&T Transparency Institute.
The groups called for a halt to the rapid rail system pending further studies on its viability, the establishment of a transit authority and a two-stage tendering process.
But Imbert slapped this down yesterday in a lengthy address supporting the case for the rail system.
“This recommendation has been pulled out of a hat by this distinguished group of construction industry professionals, without even the benefit of a pre-feasibility study—the very thing they are now demanding the Government undertake before proceeding with the rail project.
“Therefore, this recommendation cannot be taken seriously. It fails the very test they have set for Government and it is irresposible and unprofessional of these groups to demand a virtual dismantling of existing transport systems to suit their own sectarian interests, without in-depth analysis, the minister said.”
He said the groups’ suggestion to buy more buses would be more costly than the rail system, since it would require providing more roads for this also.
Imbert noted various local, Canadian and Indian studies done in the last 40 years up to this year, which he said confirmed the need for a rail system:
“We are now at three times the international traffic benchmark beyond which a railway should be introduced,” Imbert said.
He asked why the UNC Government had not undertaken the project when the UNC also had several studies on the issue done, attesting to the need.
He said all the information was also available to local industry professionals for years:
“It appears that left to them they would theorise and hypothecate forever and tilt at windmills like Don Quixote while the solution stares us all in the face and the travelling public becomes more and more disgruntled,” he added.
“Government has no intention of allowing self-seeking provocateurs or misguided interest groups to derail our transportation infrastructure programme.”
He said:
“ Wer are going full speed ahead with the railway project and we are on target to select our preferred contractor within the next two months if not before.”
Imbert also reiterated details of the procurement process, which had also been disputed by the groups. He said:
“Therefore, we have engaged in total and complete transparency over and above the standards set out in the White Paper on procurement that they keep referring to,” Imbert added.
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oh and yuh say de Government eh do studies?
yuh saying Colm Imbert lying? and what about de unc dem studies flawed too? Man griping cuz dey eh gey ah share ah de pie...steups and de UNC bitching cuz dem eh getting to tief....
By Gail Alexander
Surveys by Government confirm that 90 per cent of the population is in favour of the reintroduction of the railway in T&T, Works Minister Colm Imbert said yesterday:
> 75 % of the population in Trinidad is functionally illiterate. Where is the raw data from these surveys? Personally, I'd think citing a source other than the express or guardian is in order for continuance of these discussions.
“ To be blunt—the people want the railway and they want it now! As a responsible Government, we cannot ignore the will of the people in favour of a small serving group,” Imbert added in a statement to Parliament yesterday.
Therein lies the folly of those in authority.
He completely dismissed concerns raised this week by the Joint Consultative Council, the T&T Manufacturers Association and the T&T Transparency Institute.
The groups called for a halt to the rapid rail system pending further studies on its viability, the establishment of a transit authority and a two-stage tendering process.
But Imbert slapped this down yesterday in a lengthy address supporting the case for the rail system.
“This recommendation has been pulled out of a hat by this distinguished group of construction industry professionals, without even the benefit of a pre-feasibility study—the very thing they are now demanding the Government undertake before proceeding with the rail project.
So if I read this correctly, no pre-feasibility study has been undertaken by either group. Then again i havent been educated at the best universities so someone please clarify.
“Therefore, this recommendation cannot be taken seriously. It fails the very test they have set for Government and it is irresposible and unprofessional of these groups to demand a virtual dismantling of existing transport systems to suit their own sectarian interests, without in-depth analysis, the minister said.”
Isnt the point of the feasibility study to demonstrate that the option considered is viable? So, in essence we need two feasibility studies based on this logic? One stating why it should be built and one why it shoudnt be built? Intelligence to the highest degree...
He said the groups’ suggestion to buy more buses would be more costly than the rail system, since it would require providing more roads for this also.
Where are the numbers to back up these claims?
Imbert noted various local, Canadian and Indian studies done in the last 40 years up to this year, which he said confirmed the need for a rail system:
“We are now at three times the international traffic benchmark beyond which a railway should be introduced,” Imbert said.
Call me stupid but wouldnt it be best to simply utilize the results from these studies to issue documents related to a master transportation plan that the government is formulating? Its amazing that an engineer like himself cannot see that for such a problem, there will be several solutions that may work just as well. Being open to suggestions cannot kill the project.
He asked why the UNC Government had not undertaken the project when the UNC also had several studies on the issue done, attesting to the need.
This was probably because they hadnt yet figured out a way to make money off this transaction? Remember they were juggling several multimillion dollar scams. Is only so much you can tief in one go.
He said all the information was also available to local industry professionals for years:
“It appears that left to them they would theorise and hypothecate forever and tilt at windmills like Don Quixote while the solution stares us all in the face and the travelling public becomes more and more disgruntled,” he added.
Several wrongs and almosts dont make a right. The simple fact is that for us to develop a system that is both efficient and effective, we have to lose out in the shortrun. We've lost out for the past 40 years, if we put things in place right now, we can arrive at our endpoint earlier rather than limping through the race. Its very important that those in authority do not rush into something that will become a nuisance once we've arrived at the juicy horizon.
“Government has no intention of allowing self-seeking provocateurs or misguided interest groups to derail our transportation infrastructure programme.”
He said:
“ Wer are going full speed ahead with the railway project and we are on target to select our preferred contractor within the next two months if not before.”
Imbert also reiterated details of the procurement process, which had also been disputed by the groups. He said:
“Therefore, we have engaged in total and complete transparency over and above the standards set out in the White Paper on procurement that they keep referring to,” Imbert added.
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I posted that article here a few days ago.
The holes in his address will show up soon enough.
Where dem numbers come from...out ah hat?
U are obsessed with Panday....I doh understand how he come in a discussion about the rail project.
Maybe is cuz he mash up yuh ONR padnahs when yuh was back home and force yuh to flee to VA :-X
:devil:
seriously...u talk bout others being political but nutten cah be discussed without YOU talking bout yuh padnah....a man who has had little to no effect on national issues in the past few years and who spent a very short time in office. Who de hell cares about Panday...HISTORY. I guess u transitioning yuh hatred to Ramesh....leave me out yuh folly.
If the opposition not functioning then the people will have to speak up for themselves. U confise that with supporting those who sitting on the benches.
note:
While looking for Imbert's speech I saw they broadcast parliament over the net
http://www.ttparliament.org/parliamentchannel.htm
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75 % of the population in Trinidad is functionally illiterate. Where is the raw data from these surveys? Personally, I'd think citing a source other than the express or guardian is in order for continuance of these discussions.
And you came to this conclusion based on what pre-feasibility study?
Therein lies the folly of those in authority.
Folly? Discharging the will of the people is deemed folly? How so? Pray tell....or are you again stating "facts" from study you undertook? And is there not a problem with public transport in T&T that needs urgent attention?
So if I read this correctly, no pre-feasibility study has been undertaken by either group. Then again i havent been educated at the best universities so someone please clarify.
I do believe that Mr. Colm was suggesting that those in opposition had NOT done any studies, and they accuse the government of the same offense. I am sure that you have mistaken the goodly minister's comments, indeed he was not very clear with his staements.
Isnt the point of the feasibility study to demonstrate that the option considered is viable? So, in essence we need two feasibility studies based on this logic? One stating why it should be built and one why it shoudnt be built? Intelligence to the highest degree...
It appears to me that the government, indeed successive governments had done studies, hence the reference to transportaton improvements in India and Canada, or do you disagree? And forgive me, but I cannot see where the Minister suggests two studies??? He suggested that those voicing opposition are demanding the dismantling of exisiting transportation systems and they are making such demands by the seat of their pants without any studies being untertaken to validiate their position!
Where are the numbers to back up these claims?
The Minister'sffice is available to answer such questions I am sure. Maybe he got that answer the same place you got yours concerning the illiteracy of trinis?
Call me stupid but wouldnt it be best to simply utilize the results from these studies to issue documents related to a master transportation plan that the government is formulating? Its amazing that an engineer like himself cannot see that for such a problem, there will be several solutions that may work just as well. Being open to suggestions cannot kill the project.
Are you conceding that maybe the Government did some sort of feasiility studies afterall? Even if they borrowed from elsewhere? And what in the Minister's comments suggest that he was unreceptive to suggestions? It appears that he is reluctant to talk to those who, without the benefit of any form of studies want to halt the project, indeed, as he stated, even want to go so far as to dismantle existing infrastructure...all for sectarian interests..and a piece of the pie even!
This was probably because they hadnt yet figured out a way to make money off this transaction? Remember they were juggling several multimillion dollar scams. Is only so much you can tief in one go.
well we do agree on something afte rall. Mind you, I AM NOT entirely convinced that this massive project is being properly handled.
Several wrongs and almosts dont make a right. The simple fact is that for us to develop a system that is both efficient and effective, we have to lose out in the shortrun. We've lost out for the past 40 years, if we put things in place right now, we can arrive at our endpoint earlier rather than limping through the race. Its very important that those in authority do not rush into something that will become a nuisance once we've arrived at the juicy horizon.
I concur! But there is something that you left out and obviously, the article omits details also, but please note that the writer did suggest that during his lengthy response to the rail critics, the minister outlined the bidding process!
Imbert also reiterated details of the procurement process, which had also been disputed by the groups. He said:
“Therefore, we have engaged in total and complete transparency over and above the standards set out in the White Paper on procurement that they keep referring to,” Imbert added.
Ths article does not give the whole speech by the minister, just what the writer believed was salient.
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I posted that article here a few days ago.
The holes in his address will show up soon enough.
Where dem numbers come from...out ah hat?
U are obsessed with Panday....I doh understand how he come in a discussion about the rail project.
Maybe is cuz he mash up yuh ONR padnahs when yuh was back home and force yuh to flee to VA :-X
:devil:
seriously...u talk bout others being political but nutten cah be discussed without YOU talking bout yuh padnah....a man who has had little to no effect on national issues in the past few years and who spent a very short time in office. Who de hell cares about Panday...HISTORY. I guess u transitioning yuh hatred to Ramesh....leave me out yuh folly.
If the opposition not functioning then the people will have to speak up for themselves. U confise that with supporting those who sitting on the benches.
note:
While looking for Imbert's speech I saw they broadcast parliament over the net
http://www.ttparliament.org/parliamentchannel.htm
My hatred as you put it has verything to do with wanting the best available governance for T&T. Is that not important to you? I have transferred NEW feelings toward Ramesh, becasue initially I supported him and felt that he was a man of moral fortitude. Sadly, I was mistaken. And I am not alone as it pertains to this matter. Ask Hulsie, Raffique Shah, and Dookeran how they feel about Ramesh's two faced behaviours.
I as teasing my friend Feliazano when I brought in UNC and then I responded to TI's post about Ramesh. The fact is that the people's voice in T&T has become compromised by Panday. You may not like me saying that, but it is true and it is indeed sad. He is a has-been, but his lust for power has seen him destroying the UNC faster than dementia taking over TI's cognition!
And you feel that he has had no influence on the politics in T&T over the last few years? steups. Wake up.
I have always had an axe to gring with Panday becasue of what he is and what he has always done, nutten to do with ONR and I eh run no wey either. It all stems from his corrupt and unethial dealings and handling od the very people who gave him power in the first place...the sugar workers. And we see how he has dealt with them and their plight ent?
it seems that YOU HAVE A PROBLEM when the people (I am the people too)do speak out against th piss poor opposition ent? Why else yuh taking umbrage with my discourse lamenting the frail and foul state of de UNC? eh, eh eh?
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Where does the rail system, bus system and ferry service fall within the context of the master transportation plan? I forget...what plan?
Just curious, isnt it a light rail being discussed?
You asking for a plan!!
TT I think this person is a UNC!!!!
:rotfl:
In 1992 when we were still in the throes of IMF administered restructuring the GOTT decided to stop the Development Programme as it was known then and introduce the PSIP Public Sector Development Plan.
In order to have carefully thought out and executed development projects the public service planners, porject coordinators, PMU 's etc were all given 1 yr project planning and project implementation training by the world bank.
What they did in a nutshell was give groups projects that were just ideas and the groups had to end up doing feasibilty studies on these various projects.
The projects I remember.
Port Of Spain waterfront.
St Joseph Goverment Complex.
San Fernando Goverment Complex.
Irwin Park sporting Complex
Inter Island Transport
Port of Spain to Point Fortin freeway
Rapid transit system.
Now I left the service soon after and I don't know if the overall scheme of things has changed since, but I think there is a plan in there somewhere and even though the money for these projects could be all " People money " meaning straight from government with no international loans or grants, the IMF and UNDP arrangements we have may still requires scrutiny of these projects by them.
The construction sector has pressure groups that look after their own interests , this means that they do not appreciate foriegn input outside of the energy sector, anything with concrete , iron and steel should stay within their perview, so they are always critical of mega projects of this nature. Of course Mt Hope and Piarco did nothing to reduce this criticism.
They would rather build more roads, overpasses etc.
But that is myopic and not very futuristic thinking or planning.
A rapid transit system is a must for TT since over 50% of the population travel to the cities or large towns everday.
Ten years to complete this system compared to 20 yrs of new road building that probably will not satisfy transport requirements is a no brainer.
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anybody know how much people going into POS works for the public sector versus the private sector and students?
i think besides business offices and some important government departments, everything else shouls be out of POS.
didnt they think bout decentralization a few years agao?
what became of that idea?
probably nothing cause i did remember they wanting to build a new hospital in the middle of POS.
i still feel if we cant take care of buses, yuh expect them to take car of an expensive rail car..bring that in and see how fast it go become "ghetttorized"..steups
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anybody know how much people going into POS works for the public sector versus the private sector and students?
i think besides business offices and some important government departments, everything else shouls be out of POS.
didnt they think bout decentralization a few years agao?
what became of that idea?
probably nothing cause i did remember they wanting to build a new hospital in the middle of POS.
i still feel if we cant take care of buses, yuh expect them to take car of an expensive rail car..bring that in and see how fast it go become "ghetttorized"..steups
Good question.
Some years ago we suggested that where the caroni racing plant was supposed to go they could have put new government offices there but that was shut down in favor of houses ah suppose.
The biggest problem with the rail will definitely be operational/maintenance.
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anybody know how much people going into POS works for the public sector versus the private sector and students?
i think besides business offices and some important government departments, everything else shouls be out of POS.
didnt they think bout decentralization a few years agao?
what became of that idea?
probably nothing cause i did remember they wanting to build a new hospital in the middle of POS.
i still feel if we cant take care of buses, yuh expect them to take car of an expensive rail car..bring that in and see how fast it go become "ghetttorized"..steups
Good question.
Some years ago we suggested that where the caroni racing plant was supposed to go they could have put new government offices there but that was shut down in favor of houses ah suppose.
The biggest problem with the rail will definitely be operational/maintenance.
yes i think long term maintaince is critical. but the system is a must now.
i dont think the government has even seriously considered maintiance as part of thier thinkign because it seems as soona s they get an idea they just rush in.
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anybody know how much people going into POS works for the public sector versus the private sector and students?
i think besides business offices and some important government departments, everything else shouls be out of POS.
didnt they think bout decentralization a few years agao?
what became of that idea?
probably nothing cause i did remember they wanting to build a new hospital in the middle of POS.
i still feel if we cant take care of buses, yuh expect them to take car of an expensive rail car..bring that in and see how fast it go become "ghetttorized"..steups
Good question.
Some years ago we suggested that where the caroni racing plant was supposed to go they could have put new government offices there but that was shut down in favor of houses ah suppose.
The biggest problem with the rail will definitely be operational/maintenance.
yes i think long term maintaince is critical. but the system is a must now.
i dont think the government has even seriously considered maintiance as part of thier thinkign because it seems as soona s they get an idea they just rush in.
ah man jes post ah say de ting online since 1992 and yuh say dey rushing it. I can guarantee that anyone selling the government the rapid rail will also provide services for that syatem thats how business is done! That way the provider also gets ah share of de maintenance and systems pie. additionally they will be providing training to the crew, maintenance workers etc.
Believe dat!
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Do we have to take it on faith the studies exist?
If they do exist and they stand up to scrutiny then fine but they have to get used to people scrutinizing their every move. Accusing them of complaining because they didn't get contracts is not the way to go even if he feel is so. Let the facts come to light for themselves.
Just remember we also needed an airport too. And Tobago needed a hospital. And we needed new stadia for the WC. Is about the process so if information is there to show they doing things the right way then make it available....the onus is on them not us to make the case.
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Do we have to take it on faith the studies exist?
If they do exist and they stand up to scrutiny then fine but they have to get used to people scrutinizing their every move. Accusing them of complaining because they didn't get contracts is not the way to go even if he feel is so. Let the facts come to light for themselves.
Just remember we also needed an airport too. And Tobago needed a hospital. And we needed new stadia for the WC. Is about the process so if information is there to show they doing things the right way then make it available....the onus is on them not us to make the case.
Well now yuh making sense. But doh assume too much nor hold yuh breath...is trinidad politicans we dealing with, thoe who eh corrupt, damn well inept.
Their records speak volumes and testify to dat!
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75 % of the population in Trinidad is functionally illiterate. Where is the raw data from these surveys? Personally, I'd think citing a source other than the express or guardian is in order for continuance of these discussions.
And you came to this conclusion based on what pre-feasibility study?
You are correct. The highest percentage that I've come across is approximately 23% (Adult Literacy Tutors Association, 1995; UWI NATIONAL LITERACY SURVEY, 1995). Although some estimates up to 54% have been postulated based on varying definitions.
In essence, my point is lies within the context that surveys of opinions in Trinidad will be severely skewed depending on the wording of the questions. I'm in no doubt that > 90% of Trinidadians want a change from the current transportation fiasco but correlating this change to wanting a rail? not so sure. Only the raw data can be used at this point to validate my point.
Therein lies the folly of those in authority.
Folly? Discharging the will of the people is deemed folly? How so? Pray tell....or are you again stating "facts" from study you undertook? And is there not a problem with public transport in T&T that needs urgent attention?
The folly is that each government has DECIDED beforehand how to discharge the will of the people. Yes, act on the will of the masses but at the same time, provide those with the technical expertise to criticize and comment and take heed of what is being said. We see eye to eye on that.
So if I read this correctly, no pre-feasibility study has been undertaken by either group. Then again i havent been educated at the best universities so someone please clarify.
I do believe that Mr. Colm was suggesting that those in opposition had NOT done any studies, and they accuse the government of the same offense. I am sure that you have mistaken the goodly minister's comments, indeed he was not very clear with his staements.
See maybe we differ in the opinion of the responsibility of the government here. I fully believe that the pre-feasibility study should be within the realm of the government's responsibility NOT those in opposition. This is my view becuase the gov's study, if done properly, will clearly illuminate the path forward.
Isnt the point of the feasibility study to demonstrate that the option considered is viable? So, in essence we need two feasibility studies based on this logic? One stating why it should be built and one why it shoudnt be built? Intelligence to the highest degree...
It appears to me that the government, indeed successive governments had done studies, hence the reference to transportaton improvements in India and Canada, or do you disagree? And forgive me, but I cannot see where the Minister suggests two studies??? He suggested that those voicing opposition are demanding the dismantling of exisiting transportation systems and they are making such demands by the seat of their pants without any studies being untertaken to validiate their position!
But we're in a catch 22. The results from the government's study would definitely lay away at those claims. Using university studies at citations for municipal projects is relevant but not the end all be all of substantial engineering projects.
Where are the numbers to back up these claims?
The Minister'sffice is available to answer such questions I am sure. Maybe he got that answer the same place you got yours concerning the illiteracy of trinis?
Well i got my answers from my gut (Colbert Report, 2006). ::)
Call me stupid but wouldnt it be best to simply utilize the results from these studies to issue documents related to a master transportation plan that the government is formulating? Its amazing that an engineer like himself cannot see that for such a problem, there will be several solutions that may work just as well. Being open to suggestions cannot kill the project.
Are you conceding that maybe the Government did some sort of feasiility studies afterall? I'll happily concede this IF I can get my hands on a copy of the report!
Even if they borrowed from elsewhere? And what in the Minister's comments suggest that he was unreceptive to suggestions? It appears that he is reluctant to talk to those who, without the benefit of any form of studies want to halt the project, indeed, as he stated, even want to go so far as to dismantle existing infrastructure...all for sectarian interests..and a piece of the pie even!
This was probably because they hadnt yet figured out a way to make money off this transaction? Remember they were juggling several multimillion dollar scams. Is only so much you can tief in one go.
well we do agree on something afte rall. Mind you, I AM NOT entirely convinced that this massive project is being properly handled.
Several wrongs and almosts dont make a right. The simple fact is that for us to develop a system that is both efficient and effective, we have to lose out in the shortrun. We've lost out for the past 40 years, if we put things in place right now, we can arrive at our endpoint earlier rather than limping through the race. Its very important that those in authority do not rush into something that will become a nuisance once we've arrived at the juicy horizon.
I concur! But there is something that you left out and obviously, the article omits details also, but please note that the writer did suggest that during his lengthy response to the rail critics, the minister outlined the bidding process!
Imbert also reiterated details of the procurement process, which had also been disputed by the groups. He said:
“Therefore, we have engaged in total and complete transparency over and above the standards set out in the White Paper on procurement that they keep referring to,” Imbert added.
Ths article does not give the whole speech by the minister, just what the writer believed was salient.
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well sorry it took so long to reply, but you know, Christmas ;D
anyway, the minister gave a long media release over the holidays, and one day I'll probably sit down and read it...pages and pages of words. no pictures ;D
in any case it is a done deal (again!) and now we can only wait and see ... seems it will take quite a few years to build, and still we will need other shorter term measures. The govt is also bringing more buses in the new year. Again, i have to point out, that over the years, we have continued to buy new buses, no problem, but still refuse to buy the prts for maintenance. how many buses are in the yard parked up because they are missing parts. Last few yeard, the mechanics have been cannibalizing some of the buses, to fix others.
Can you say " third world mentality?"
How will this translate for the rail system? What is being put in place for maintenance?
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Rapid rail contract awarded
By Asha Javeed (Trinidad Guardian)
Trinitrain, led by Bouygues Travaux Publics, has been awarded the contract for the construction of the $7 billion Rapid Rail project.
Prime Minister Patrick Manning made the announcement as he explained the Government’s plans to alleviate the country’s traffic woes as he delivered the 2007-2008 budget in
Parliament yesterday.
The Government and special interest groups have been engaged in a war of words over the project which lead to the establishment of a Ministerial
Committee to oversee the procurement process. The Ministerial Committee was supported by a technical team comprised of senior public servants and technocrats.
Manning pointed out that the process has taken over a year with the final two companies being Trinitrain and T3 Group led by Vinci Construction.
He said after a thorough examination by the National Infrastructure Development Company and the Technical Team including technical considerations, price and contractual terms and a review by the Ministerial Committe, the Trinitrain offer was accepted.
Bouygues is the contractor in charge of the billion-dollar waterfront project and has recently been awarded the contract to build the 26-storey Transcorp Credit Union tower on South Quay, Port-of-Spain.
“The project is to be implemented through the National Infrastructure
Development Company and will be developed through a Design Build Operate Maintain contract. The first phase of the project will commence in the new fiscal year and will be completed in five to six years time,” said Manning.
“Mr Speaker, suffice it to say that the rapid rail system will provide unparalled mobility and will be the backbone of Trinidad’s transportation system when completed,” he said.
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They need to stop saying they goin to do dese tings and start doin dem thats if they really want to reach first world status. But at the moment it doesn't look like it. A simple thing like building a highway from San Fernando to Point Fortin has been on the agenda for the longest while. Speaking about highways that is what they need to fix before they start building rapid rail. Do u really think developed countries have traffic lights on their highways and dirt tracks and driveways leading onto the highway like on the UBH and SHH. The answer is NO!!Because it is dangerous. Because they are not building the southern link freeway they need to up the standards of the Churchil-R Highway to fit that of the SLF. So three lanes either side all the way to Wallerfield with ATM system above the highway also with overhead signs above the highway. I feel they jes ignoring the traffic problems in Port of Spain, instead of building car parks continue the beetham highway as an elevated highway through the City centre bypassing the congested CBD and continue the highway all the way to Diego Martin so there is a through flow of traffic and they need to be efficient and cost and time effective so tunneling through the hills on the way to diego Martin is a great idea remember they need to think first world. And a spur of the highway leading to Sea lots as an expressway. Obviously there would be overpasses so people can get off an onto the highway at ease and into and out of the city centre with ease.
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Oh yeh and 3 lanes each side for UBH and SHH all the the way from Grand Bazzar to San Fernando with overhead signs and state of the art ATM systems.
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First answer - yes. I drive on a highway everyday that has all the overpasses and exits etc and then just turn into a section with traffic lights and road coming out of residential areas and then turn back into the highway again. Why? b/c they couldn't/wouldn't acquire the land needed to make the
"proper" junctions, and had to do what they could.
The problem with Traffic in POS is that there are too many cars going into the same spot. I think the goal is to get as many of those cars off the streets by having this mass transit system.
But since we building elevated highways and tunneling through to Diego Martin. I wouldn't mind seeing POS as a car-free zone, with free buses/trams running along the streets. You would arrive on the outskirts of POS in your train/taxi whatever and then hop the free bus to your destination. Of course, huge park-and ride lots present their own problems as dos the fact that all of this is never going to profit (but then, public transit never does)
Thinking first world isn't about building things bigger, or more fancy or tunnels or whatever, it's about making the infrastructure you build effective and efficient. Even then, sometimes you are overwhelmed by events. Take the Bridge in Minnesota that collapsed (or any highway in NYC) the design parameters have long ago been exceeded.
If you can reduce the number of cars on the road b/c people use mass transit or a water-taxi, then you'll find that the traffic may improve without the need for tunnels.
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This ia ha old thread, I just wanted to know if this ever materialized.
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This ia ha old thread, I just wanted to know if this ever materialized.
The last thing I heard just this week, was that it was put on hold because there were too many questions surrounding the bidding process that need to be answered.....
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This ia ha old thread, I just wanted to know if this ever materialized.
The last thing I heard just this week, was that it was put on hold because there were too many questions surrounding the bidding process that need to be answered.....
funny to read this post, cuz I had so many questinos aftger readin the article myself. how they coem up with a winning bidder (especially if they hire a company that never did this before)...did tihs company do one before somewhere else? 7bn is a lot of money.
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This ia ha old thread, I just wanted to know if this ever materialized.
The last thing I heard just this week, was that it was put on hold because there were too many questions surrounding the bidding process that need to be answered.....
whattt..since when?
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pre-election rhetoric
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Rapid Rail may go underground
By ANDRE BAGOO Thursday, February 12 2009
THE GOVERNMENT may take the billion-dollar Rapid Rail project underground by constructing tunnels for the proposed railway beneath Port-of-Spain, akin to subway systems in metropolitan centres like New York and London, project sources disclosed this week.
French consultants working for the TriniTrain Consortium arrived in the country three months ago and are currently investigating the possibility of taking the $7billion rail system underground as a way of avoiding restrictions of land availability in the southeast section of Port-of-Spain where the Northern Range meets the Caroni Swamp, forming a virtual bottleneck into and out of the city.
Next year, the consultants are expected to submit a final report detailing data collected from their investigation, route information as well as a preliminary design to the National Infrastructure Development Company (NIDCO), the state company charged with implementing the ambitious rail project.
“An overland system would require us to acquire land, and to build the rail tracks on elevated platforms, that could be expensive,” one source told Newsday. “We are looking at taking it underground, beneath the utilities, as an alternative. The only land acquisition that would be required would then be land for entrances and exits, air ducts and emergency tunnels.”
Asked how such an underground system will deal with flooding, the source said, “there are ways to deal with that.”
“Many people may have ruled underground out because of the coastal soil conditions, but that is not so,” the source added.
Newsday also understands that the Government has briefed TriniTrain, asking them to examine the possibility of extending the reach of the rail system, which consultants say may not be a form of light railway, but a full-fledged rail system with sections tapering off into light rail/tram services in less populous areas.
Originally, the rail system has been planned to be a 72-mile stretch of rail, including one limb across the East-West corridor from Westmoorings to Sangre Grande, and another limb extending North-South from El Socorro to San Fernando.
But the Ministry of Works and Transport is adamant that the rail service should not only serve already existing distributions of populations, but also spread into uninhabited areas, the idea being to encourage development.
Consultants have also been given extended briefs to include designs not only for railway stops, but also designs for urban spaces surrounding planned stations, which may include park areas and walkways. Very little information has been released about the Rapid Rail project since the Government signed a $453million contract for the first phase of the project, involving the design and development, with consortium TriniTrain on April 11, 2008. But behind the scenes, officials working for the consortium, which comprises Bouygues Travaux Publics SA, Alstom Transport SA, and RATP Développement SA, have been quietly conducting site-visits across Trinidad with a view to ascertaining a possible route for the railway as well as the appropriate number of stops required.
They are understood to have encountered several difficulties with regard to information gathering, with maps and plans provided by local bodies and setting out water and electric utilities turning out to be outdated.
One Canadian consultant, who visited the country before Christmas last year, also privately complained that, in the consultant’s view, the rapid rail project would be too expensive and not cost effective. But other consultants differed on this issue.
The total rapid rail project is estimated to cost more than $7billion. At one stage, the estimated cost was stated at $15billion. The second phase of the project, expected to begin next year, involves design and construction while a third phase, expected in 2012, will see the start of operations and maintenance.
Send t
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hmmmmm look ting
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cyar wuk.
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cyar wuk.
why not?
it go be real wicked to take ah subway to maracas an ting
man jumpin turnstile in talparo go be normal
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Under what ground ??? Next thing he buy 3rd hand train and people get stick under ground....dat is riot right dere. Look one of dey speedo boats on dry land already.
steupse!!
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like dem didnt see the flood port of spain had? Want to see wat kind of draining system them have
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It would be nice to have the rapid rail, but honestly, I can't see that being underground. The EW corridor is a sea level. Flooding go destroy that subway. We already deficient in maintenace. from POS to ElSocoro it will have to go in the air and probably on surface after that. But underground!!!! Boy oh boy!!!!
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It would be nice to have the rapid rail, but honestly, I can't see that being underground. The EW corridor is a sea level. Flooding go destroy that subway. We already deficient in maintenace. from POS to ElSocoro it will have to go in the air and probably on surface after that. But underground!!!! Boy oh boy!!!!
Dem cant even maintain the roads to Maracas Bay or La Brea Pitch Lake and them want to put underground tracks. one big steups
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like dem didnt see the flood port of spain had? Want to see wat kind of draining system them have
yes sir
post man
buh wait, the government tinkin way ahead of us all man :o
they go use the subway tunnels as the storm drains :devil: :devil:
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Westcoast,
Good one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I would really like for them to build a rapid Transit. But up in the air. I ainst nothing on the ground and underground
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Westcoast,
Good one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I would really like for them to build a rapid Transit. But up in the air. I ainst nothing on the ground and underground
yeah maybe something like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyTrain_(Vancouver))
but that will be more costly than at street level and I think street level good enough...
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WestCoast,
That can work in TT. It would not hamper vehicular traffic. With the surface rail you have to worry about level crossings at Morvant, Croisee, Aranguez, Mt Lambert, Champ Fleur, St. Joseph etc. Would they go under the level crossings? I just don't trust them people back home with maintenance. Check out this BRT in one of the Chinese city.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=738686
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Steups they want to dig tunnels in swamp lol.
Just put some elevated tracks nah man.
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WestCoast,
That can work in TT. It would not hamper vehicular traffic. With the surface rail you have to worry about level crossings at Morvant, Croisee, Aranguez, Mt Lambert, Champ Fleur, St. Joseph etc. Would they go under the level crossings? I just don't trust them people back home with maintenance. Check out this BRT in one of the Chinese city.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=738686
(http://bbs.home.news.cn/upfiles/0395BC7B.002C)
Yeah, I would prefer that Elevated priority bus ruote as you can use the buses off the elevated portions
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You know the Chinese just sign an agreement with the Saudis to build a rapid rail from Jeddah to Mecca and Medina.
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No way that could happen. With the flooding that goes on. Another thing no one recognised, IT TOO DAMN HOT FOR ANYTHING LIKE TO GO UNDER GROUND. Anybody ever travel the NY Subway in summer? Pure pressure. ;D
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just use the blimp to pull bull.
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just use the blimp to pull bull.
<wipes away tears>
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like dem didnt see the flood port of spain had? Want to see wat kind of draining system them have
yes sir
post man
buh wait, the government tinkin way ahead of us all man :o
they go use the subway tunnels as the storm drains :devil: :devil:
:rotfl:
With all that money they claim to had to believe they afford to fight crime. If there was more cops than bad man you think there will be high crime rates. Recruit and pay them cops right outta primary school.
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Anybody ever travel the NY Subway in summer? Pure pressure. ;D
De Worse!!! Even at 2 am
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just use the blimp to pull bull.
<wipes away tears>
:rotfl: :rotfl:
Not you alone girl....ah lord aye....ah love dis site.... ;D
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NY subway is not the only model to pattern your subway after. They could come to DC and check it out. It have A/C. It doh be hot in the summer in DC. As a matter of fact when they have could red days in the summer, the DC metro is one of the better place to be. But Elevated rails for TT. No underground. Them tunnel going to be gigantic sewer pipes in the rainy season.
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trini subway will be like the NY subways in the eighties ,after a while :o Death Wish style.
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I really hope not.
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A little girl cant even get the bus in broad daylight ,imagine late night underground ha.Not to mention the amount of ppl who will get pushed ,just yesterday rite in the GT two girls get pushed ,they hold the man girls ok.
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just use the blimp to pull bull.
I know d man 2 b at d helm of dat project.
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I heard the the proposed rail system is going to be put on hold. It is a pity, because I think we need some kind of rail service because we have limited space to build more roads. The reason I resurrected this post is because I just read where Dubai(have money to burn) just open their metro. This part runs above ground. It would be nice if we can build something close to that.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=367984&page=30
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I heard the the proposed rail system is going to be put on hold. It is a pity, because I think we need some kind of rail service because we have limited space to build more roads. The reason I resurrected this post is because I just read where Dubai(have money to burn) just open their metro. This part runs above ground. It would be nice if we can build something close to that.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=367984&page=30
Cosignnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
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dem cya get a good boat to float to tobago dey guh build a underground tunnel? dais a f**kin dream.. ley manning govenrment keep dreaming..
war
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This could work and all of the rail does not have to be underground, but this is where the firm that is hired along w/a reputable local engineering board needs to do proper planning. 1st off though, the significant drainage issues we have would have to be addressed, w/o this it's a disaster in the making. Grandiose ideas w/o proper planning and execution only worsens the current transportation woes we face as a nation
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puerto rico have a combination of above and undergound...they might have to do someting like dat...i could see one set of bobol in this project tho
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It could never work underground...
Because POS is reclaimed land right up to barataria
The twin towers and Nicolas tower go collapse in 10-15 years.
There are underground streams passing through the foundation and they have pumps to suck out the water which doh work on a regular basis.
Right now the foundation of the twin towers gettin rotten and the basment does flood out regular.
Everything in TT is a pipe dream.
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According to what I get from the Finance Minister's post budget forum was that they are going to proceed with the costing and then depending on the economic situation at that time they will decide if to proceed or not.
That was just a few days ago so unless there is some new development rapid rail continuing unless the economy take a turn for the worse.
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According to what I get from the Finance Minister's post budget forum was that they are going to proceed with the costing and then depending on the economic situation at that time they will decide if to proceed or not.
That was just a few days ago so unless there is some new development rapid rail continuing unless the economy take a turn for the worse.
EXACTLYYYYYYYY
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TnT needs to put in a system like this in Tokyo called Yurikamome
Bus on elevated tracks
http://www.youtube.com/v/r52DGuXXHP4
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TnT needs to put in a system like this in Tokyo called Yurikamome
Agreed the Yurikamome (Tokyo Monorail) maybe the way to go...having using used it several times I would say it is definately convenient and being a country that floods...there is no way a underground subway will work in a place like TNT. IMPOSSIBLE..the word is called wear and tear
Another one to compete with the Tokyo Monorail is the Skytrain in Vancouver and its cheaper that the Yurikamome. I like the idea that its all computerized and requires no drivers.
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Rapid Rail talks derailed
By LEISELLE MARAJ (NEWSDAY).
Attempts to hold a public consultation on the Rapid Rail project yesterday were rapidly derailed by angry residents of Central Trinidad who will be displaced if the proposed pathway of the train is accepted. It took two hours for the TriniTrain consortium to address concerns of the general public who attended what is the first of three consultations on the Rapid Rail project at City Hall, Port-of-Spain.
Executive of the consortium, made up of foreign engineering companies, Alstom Transport SA, Bouygues Travaux Publics SA and RATP Développement SA faced a barrage of complaints and accusations from the residents some of whom displayed placards.
UNC Caroni East MP Dr Tim Gopeesingh and deputy leader of the National Joint Action Committee (NJAC) Nyahuma Obika joined the protest at which accusations of corruption were levelled and also the fear that the National Infrastructure Development Company (NIDCO), which oversees the project, could become “another Udecott”.
TriniTrain Project Manager, Gilbert Salvi opened the consultation with some remarks but even before reaching the technical aspect of his presentation, on findings from a feasibility study which represents Phase One of the project, members of the audience began firing questions to members of the panel.
Obika said the consultations were an insult to the residents who will be most affected by the project. Gopeesingh focussed on allegations of corruption levelled against the UK operations of Alstom. He questioned the decision to grant the project to the consortium which Alstom is a party of, before Alstom attempts to clear its name of the corruption allegations in its Euro operations.
Salvi said while TriniTrain is preparing a statement on the Alstom matter, he assured that no member of the group was involved in any corrupt practice. “We are not corrupted. The procurement process which began in 2006 was an international one and it was quite clean,” he said.
Goopeesingh also attempted to clarify costs of the project which he said Works and Transport Minister, Colm Imbert, quoted in Parliament. He said Imbert converted costs in three currencies, TT$55 million, 16 million Euros and US$37.79 million which would mean an inaccurate conversion to TT dollars. Alstom’s RSG Manager, Jean Pierre Verguel said however these figures were accurate.
Salvi took the opportunity to apologise for the lack of communication between residents and the company since many pointed out that the first phase of the project, which includes all public consultations, is expected to end this month. He said while he could not speak for government, he was willing to go through the work done by the consortium so far. After making calls to cancel the project, persons in the audience indicated they were willing to sit and listen to the presentations at 7 pm — two hours after the 5 pm start time of the consultation.
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Rapid Rail talks derailed
By LEISELLE MARAJ (NEWSDAY).
Obika said the consultations were an insult to the residents who will be most affected by the project.
Agreed... the usually declaration by fiat without any public consultation works so much better.
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PTSC head knocks rapid rail idea
By Yvonne Webb (T&T Guardian)
Public Transport Service Corporation (PTSC) chairman Devant Maharaj says the success of its response on Wednesday to the maxi taxi drivers’ strike, proves that this country does not need a rapid rail transport system. Some 200 buses were deployed to bridge the gap caused by the withdrawal of the 2600 maxi taxis from various routes, in protest over the Minister of Works, Jack Warner’s recommendation to regularise PH drivers. Maharaj said while the strategies employed could not meet the shortfall created by the withdrawal of the maxi-taxi services, their depleted fleet did diminish in significant parts, the discomfort of commuters.
He said if they are up to full strength they will be able to provide an efficient and reliable public transport service. “It shows we really don’t need a rapid rail in T&T. We need to create a rapid bus transit system,” Maharaj said in an interview.
He added, “had the PTSC received the $77 to $80 million spent on a feasibility study for the rapid rail, we would have been able to buy at least 100 buses and create a significant rapid bus transit system that would have addressed the need of the commuting public very easily.” Maharaj said in the circumstances PTSC would step up its repair/maintenance programme. “We have seen the engineering department at PTSC can fix 50 buses in ten days, illustrating that the people we have possess the skills and the ability to navigate the variety of buses we have here.”
There are 16 different models of buses, from Brazil, Germany and China, posing a challenge to engineers. The waiting time for parts, three to six months, especially from China, he said, is too long. The 50 buses which were down for a considerable period were repaired in record time to circumvent any suffering of commuters due to the strike. Maharaj said this demonstrated how efficient the PTSC could be if given the tools to work with. Now that the engineers have demonstrated this ability, Maharaj said, the intention is to have 100 other buses that are down, up and running in the shortest possible time to bring the fleet of 400 buses on the road.
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^ buses does get stuck in traffic tooo.....so it cant be as reliable as a rail system.
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PTSC head knocks rapid rail idea
By Yvonne Webb (T&T Guardian)
Public Transport Service Corporation (PTSC) chairman Devant Maharaj says the success of its response on Wednesday to the maxi taxi drivers’ strike, proves that this country does not need a rapid rail transport system. Some 200 buses were deployed to bridge the gap caused by the withdrawal of the 2600 maxi taxis from various routes, in protest over the Minister of Works, Jack Warner’s recommendation to regularise PH drivers. Maharaj said while the strategies employed could not meet the shortfall created by the withdrawal of the maxi-taxi services, their depleted fleet did diminish in significant parts, the discomfort of commuters.
He said if they are up to full strength they will be able to provide an efficient and reliable public transport service. “It shows we really don’t need a rapid rail in T&T. We need to create a rapid bus transit system,” Maharaj said in an interview.
He added, “had the PTSC received the $77 to $80 million spent on a feasibility study for the rapid rail, we would have been able to buy at least 100 buses and create a significant rapid bus transit system that would have addressed the need of the commuting public very easily.” Maharaj said in the circumstances PTSC would step up its repair/maintenance programme. “We have seen the engineering department at PTSC can fix 50 buses in ten days, illustrating that the people we have possess the skills and the ability to navigate the variety of buses we have here.”
There are 16 different models of buses, from Brazil, Germany and China, posing a challenge to engineers. The waiting time for parts, three to six months, especially from China, he said, is too long. The 50 buses which were down for a considerable period were repaired in record time to circumvent any suffering of commuters due to the strike. Maharaj said this demonstrated how efficient the PTSC could be if given the tools to work with. Now that the engineers have demonstrated this ability, Maharaj said, the intention is to have 100 other buses that are down, up and running in the shortest possible time to bring the fleet of 400 buses on the road.
What is being used to judge the success or failure of the maxi taxi strike? I was curious since both sides claimed success. Also, why does the rapid rail project have to be at the expense of improving the already existing bus service? Couldn’t an efficient public transport system include both? I would imagine that there is room for both a RR and buses.
That’s part of my problem with the way we approach problems. The rapid rail should be part of an overall project to improve the transportation system in T&T. If people can trust the PTSC to provide adequate, timely and affordable service the need for PH or even H vehicles would be reduce. Our roads are busy with people who cannot rely on the PTSC to get us anywhere we need to be when we need to be there so they either own their own vehicles or rely on others to provide reliable transport.
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TnT needs to put in a system like this in Tokyo called Yurikamome
Agreed the Yurikamome (Tokyo Monorail) maybe the way to go...having using used it several times I would say it is definately convenient and being a country that floods...there is no way a underground subway will work in a place like TNT. IMPOSSIBLE..the word is called wear and tear
Another one to compete with the Tokyo Monorail is the Skytrain in Vancouver and its cheaper that the Yurikamome. I like the idea that its all computerized and requires no drivers.
de vancouver skytrain is very good. of note, it's run by a private body spun off of a formerly public entity. comparing de fortunes of toronto public transit (ttc) with vancouver over the last decade is like night and day. toronto stagnating while vancouver put in 2 new lines and working on more.
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I still think the elevated rapid rail or bus is the way to go.
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I still think the elevated rapid rail or bus is the way to go.
Nah we have PH WE GOOD.
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Rapid Rail project Proposed in 2009. Here is one of 6 videos that was produced for TriniTrain.
https://www.youtube.com/v/S9KECyunSuU
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This made too much sense. But to be honest, Imbert and PNM derailed this project for not being honest about cost, etc. I think transparency was a big factor in the opposition to this. The survey by some French company cost 1/2 billion or something like. But I think is still a good idea.
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Beautiful... still not too late.
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dey could use dat Brian Lara stadium money tuh do that...steups!
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I real sad this project didnt come to pass.
Yes men woulda eat a food and the normal levels of corruption woulda happen, but the population would have been better off in a big way.
They could even just start it in phases and just do westmooring/deigo to san juan and add a stop further east every few months, working out the kinks in the system.
Never know the next party might reintroduce it.
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I real sad this project didnt come to pass.
Yes men woulda eat a food and the normal levels of corruption woulda happen, but the population would have been better off in a big way.
They could even just start it in phases and just do westmooring/deigo to san juan and add a stop further east every few months, working out the kinks in the system.
Never know the next party might reintroduce it.
CO-SIGNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
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This was a great idea. Like touches said even if they had to downscale the project they should have gone forward with it. The east-west corridor needs an alternative mode of transport. North-South has the water taxi so east west needs something too.
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puerto rico have one and they just a tad bigger than us...when i first went there in 2000 i see this thing building up and i say no way dat go be a subway...when i gone back in 2008 and ride the thing i was impressed...my puerto rican wife herself could not believe that her lil island had a metro...some of it underground but iirc they have a fair few above ground stops as well.
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puerto rico have one and they just a tad bigger than us...when i first went there in 2000 i see this thing building up and i say no way dat go be a subway...when i gone back in 2008 and ride the thing i was impressed...my puerto rican wife herself could not believe that her lil island had a metro...some of it underground but iirc they have a fair few above ground stops as well.
As much as I don't like to compare PR because of their US affiliation, I have heard that the metro is pretty good from friends who went there. DR has one also. I don't see why we can't have a rail service to ease the congestion on the narrow EW corridor. Like some suggested, do it piece by piece. Build from the terminal to Malabar. Then to Chaguanas. Let us see how it performs and then build the rest latter on. It is a lot money to build. But TT will not have any underground. It will be strictly surface and above ground.
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puerto rico have one and they just a tad bigger than us...when i first went there in 2000 i see this thing building up and i say no way dat go be a subway...when i gone back in 2008 and ride the thing i was impressed...my puerto rican wife herself could not believe that her lil island had a metro...some of it underground but iirc they have a fair few above ground stops as well.
As much as I don't like to compare PR because of their US affiliation, I have heard that the metro is pretty good from friends who went there. DR has one also. I don't see why we can't have a rail service to ease the congestion on the narrow EW corridor. Like some suggested, do it piece by piece. Build from the terminal to Malabar. Then to Chaguanas. Let us see how it performs and then build the rest latter on. It is a lot money to build. But TT will not have any underground. It will be strictly surface and above ground.
Above ground is more practical, less effort and can be incredibly efficient whilst not using up a lot of space or effort.
I took the sky rails in Bangkok and Delhi and was impressed.
I always think of this project from time to time. It's heart breaking that it never got off the ground. It would've have made getting around TT and circumventing traffic a breeze.
VB
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could we have maintained this? police cars, buses, ferry, stadiums, hospitals/health centers the list is very long. we never seem to have a plan to maintain.
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could we have maintained this? police cars, buses, ferry, stadiums, hospitals/health centers the list is very long. we never seem to have a plan to maintain.
we could have hired a private company to run it.
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could we have maintained this? police cars, buses, ferry, stadiums, hospitals/health centers the list is very long. we never seem to have a plan to maintain.
we could have hired a private company to run it.
well oh gorm is now yuh go see Jack and Junior sammy suddenly in de rail industry......
I want to know ah go happen to de train when it in mid-run and current gorne
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could we have maintained this? police cars, buses, ferry, stadiums, hospitals/health centers the list is very long. we never seem to have a plan to maintain.
we could have hired a private company to run it.
well oh gorm is now yuh go see Jack and Junior sammy suddenly in de rail industry......
I want to know ah go happen to de train when it in mid-run and current gorne
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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dey could use dat Brian Lara stadium money tuh do that...steups!
Yup.....ah have a stadium ah cyar use and a rapid rail that I could have used but never started.....the priorities man....geez!!...
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I just saw the video that Tallman posted a few days ago. I like the general idea, but my only beef against a rail-project in T&T (besides the corruption etc) is that we seem to be using 19th and 20th century solutions for the 21st century. The type of rails and the type of trains although new infrastructure, would be basically the same technology from 100 years ago --- in other words, NOISY NOISY NOISY trains.
Yes I know there's a level of computer automation added to the system...but still, it grinds my gears that we're considering adding old NOISY technology to solve our problems in 2013.
Anyhows, I still think that if the budget can be kept in-check, and if the corruption can be mitigated we should again seriously consider pursuing it. There are other fairly new mass transit options that are less noisy, that we should consider looking into though, to see if we can make it work with Trinidad.
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I travelled by train in TT. Take it from me, you get used to it after a while. Unless they use tires like Montreal and Mex. city, I don't see any other alternative. Forget Mag-Lev. In 2121 maybe!
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I travelled by train in TT. Take it from me, you get used to it after a while. Unless they use tires like Montreal and Mex. city, I don't see any other alternative. Forget Mag-Lev. In 2121 maybe!
Oh, I meant the noise pollution in the surrounding areas. The train-lines (Amtrak and freight trains etc) that pass through the towns here in the US are very antiquated and noisy. The noise pollution also helps decrease property values somewhat of homes that are located closest to the tracks.
I could never get use to all that constant noise from trains running every 8-12 mins.
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The noise pollution also helps decrease property values somewhat of homes that are located closest to the tracks
Not in the DC metro area. I can't afford a condo overlooking the metro/csx/amtrax lines. 500 thous. and up. In DC all the metro stops have mixed residential(with parking) and retail. It is booming real estate market in DC. So it depends on which neck of the woods you are situated.
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The noise pollution also helps decrease property values somewhat of homes that are located closest to the tracks
Not in the DC metro area. I can't afford a condo overlooking the metro/csx/amtrax lines. 500 thous. and up. In DC all the metro stops have mixed residential(with parking) and retail. It is booming real estate market in DC. So it depends on which neck of the woods you are situated.
I also live in the DC area....
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T&T needs commuter railway system
T&T Guardian Reports.
Monday, September 16, 2013.
Rowley’s response to Howai’s $61b budget…
Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley on Friday responded to Finance Minister Larry Howai’s $61.3 billion budget, which was presented last Monday. Today, we conclude the reproduction of extracts from his speaking notes, which were released by the Office of the Opposition Leader. We have absolutely no doubt that the next Government of Trinidad and Tobago will be a PNM Government and we do not seek office and then proceed to practise on stage when the lights go on. We come ready!…and we ready now!!!!
It is with this confidence that we can now begin to outline some of our policies and commitments to filled the people of Trinidad and Tobago with real hope. Despite the misguided attitude and indifference of those on the other side, many transport studies over the years have identified the need for the introduction of a commuter railway system in Trinidad, going as far back as the 1967 National Transportation Plan for Trinidad and Tobago.
More recently, 16 years ago, in 1996, a study by international consultants, Cansult, justified the need for a rapid rail system. Specialist consultants from India came to the same conclusion some years later.
In studying traffic along our main east-west and north-south corridors, Cansult found that the number of people travelling along the East-West Corridor alone was 21,000 per hour in each direction and predicted an increase to 28,000 by 2015. However, an update by Cansult found that the traffic had increased to 30,000 people per hour by 2007. In other words, the traffic on our main roads had increased at many times the rate predicted earlier.
Although hundreds of thousands of our citizens face the daily grind and maddening frustration of traffic log jams, every day, and face hours in cars to and from work and school, the other side appears unaware that the international benchmark for the introduction of a mass transit system is 10,000 persons per hour.
Further, once traffic reaches 20,000 persons per hour, it is well established that a railway is the only effective mass transit solution because buses simply can’t handle these traffic volumes, nor do roadways exist in Trinidad to accommodate the thousands of buses that would be required to move people quickly and efficiently.
Traffic congestion is negatively affecting the country’s productivity and Trinidad and Tobago has the highest level of traffic in the region. It is a clear indication of the inability of our country’s infrastructure to meet new and growing transportation demands. Fifteen years ago, we crossed the traffic threshold for the introduction of a railway, and five years ago we had gone past this threshold by 50 per cent.
It is even worse now, and it is reasonable to conclude that in 2013 that we have more than twice the volume of traffic at which any sensible country would seek to implement a mass transit system. Somebody on the other side must tell the parents and children who wake up at weird hours all over the country to face, twice daily, the certain traffic jams in an ever tightening gridlock on virtually every route, the day or year when this problem will come to an end.
In June 2008, a contract was awarded to the Trinitrain Consortium for the first phase of a project to design and construct a rail system for Trinidad. Phase 1 involved planning, identification of feasible alternatives, conceptual design and preliminary engineering of the preferred solution. Phase 2 of the project involved detailed design and construction and the final phase involved commissioning and operation of the system.
The cost of Phase 1, the engineering phase, was approximately TT$500 million, with the final cost of the railway project, when fully implemented, estimated at approximately TT$10 billion. To put these costs into perspective, the cost for planning and engineering of our critically needed railway project was five per cent of the cost of construction, well within the international benchmark of ten per cent for similar projects.
Compare this to the cost of consultancy fees and other non-construction costs for the billion-dollar Couva Hospital, now being implemented by the present Government, which, at almost $500 million, are estimated at almost 50 per cent of the construction cost of that project, or ten times the percentage for engineering work on the proposed railway project. Similar outrageous non-construction costs are expected for the dubious Penal Hospital project, earmarked to be given on a platter without tender to the infamous SNC-Lavalin company, which has been banned by the World Bank, among other scandalous contract awards by this discredited regime.
Compare the $10 billion cost for a nationwide mass transit rail system with the $ 7.0 billion Highway which may not reach Pt Fortin from Debe.
By May 2010, most of Phase 1 of the railway project had been completed.
The route alignment for both the east-west line from Diego Martin to Sangre Grande and the north-south line from Port of Spain to San Fernando had been selected and designed; the station locations had been identified, the preliminary design of the railway stations and depots completed; the land acquisition requirements had been established; the legal framework for the new railway authority had been prepared; the required rolling stock had been identified; the staffing and organizational structure of the railway had been formulated; contract documentation was well advanced; the maintenance requirements for the railway had been determined, and so on.
What did the UNC Government do? Bad mouth it and throw it out. What did they replace it with? A sneaky attempt at inviting proposals for a rail system from Port-of- Spain to Arima to give one of their friends a contract . When caught and exposed, they abandoned the idea. What has the country achieved to solve the traffic problem so far ..zilch, nada, absolutely nothing as the problem gets worse every day.
The original project was split into segments, to allow easy implementation and to spread the cost over several years. All this hapless Government had to do was to properly invite tenders for the detailed design and construction of the initial railway segments, and to move full speed ahead. If they had done so, by now, the initial east-west line from Port of Spain to St Augustine and the initial north-south line to Chaguanas would have been completed by now, and thousands of commuters would be travelling to work and school in comfort on a modern rapid railway, getting to work in minutes rather than hours.
This project would have truly brought Trinidad and Tobago into the 21st century and created the stimulus for economic growth and diversification, with new commercial and industrial developments and new employment opportunities springing up to serve the new transit system. That would have been real welcomed economic growth rather than having to cheat with random numbers.
But like everything else it was a PNM initiative it had to be bad-mouthed, lied about and discarded in the same way they did with the OPVs, Sautt, and the Wallerfield Industrial Park. They almost wrecked UTT. They abandoned the railway project and wasted all of the important pre-construction and planning work that had been done. They wasted 3 years blaming the PNM for every evil under the sun, whilst twiddling their thumbs. They have proposed no viable alternative solution to our traffic and transportation woes.
After all, if the present Government could spend billions of dollars in the Prime Minister’s constituency and elsewhere on every manner of grandiose and unnecessary mega project, designed primarily to benefit friends and family, we can certainly do better by implementing a much-needed infrastructure project that will benefit every single person in Trinidad.
Up on our return to office we will immediately approach the IDB for a review of the current situation; all existing data and engineering work done to date. Once the word is a go, then the PNM commits to giving the highest priority to building a mass transportation rail system to feature service on a backbone from Diego Martin to Sangre Grande with a southern component to La Romaine.
We will seek to obtain IDB long-term concesionary funding to finance this project which will positively change the face and circumstances of Trinidad and Tobago for the next century. The PNM, the party of development of this country, will once again shoulder the responsibility for developing this country and its people.
We eagerly look forward also to the many economic benefits of the high local input into the building of the route ways over a period of several years and the phased reduction of the intractable billion dollar fuel subsidy on completion.
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T&T needs commuter railway system
T&T Guardian Reports.
Monday, September 16, 2013.
Rowley’s response to Howai’s $61b budget…
Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley on Friday responded to Finance Minister Larry Howai’s $61.3 billion budget, which was presented last Monday. Today, we conclude the reproduction of extracts from his speaking notes, which were released by the Office of the Opposition Leader. We have absolutely no doubt that the next Government of Trinidad and Tobago will be a PNM Government and we do not seek office and then proceed to practise on stage when the lights go on. We come ready!…and we ready now!!!!
It is with this confidence that we can now begin to outline some of our policies and commitments to filled the people of Trinidad and Tobago with real hope. Despite the misguided attitude and indifference of those on the other side, many transport studies over the years have identified the need for the introduction of a commuter railway system in Trinidad, going as far back as the 1967 National Transportation Plan for Trinidad and Tobago.
More recently, 16 years ago, in 1996, a study by international consultants, Cansult, justified the need for a rapid rail system. Specialist consultants from India came to the same conclusion some years later.
In studying traffic along our main east-west and north-south corridors, Cansult found that the number of people travelling along the East-West Corridor alone was 21,000 per hour in each direction and predicted an increase to 28,000 by 2015. However, an update by Cansult found that the traffic had increased to 30,000 people per hour by 2007. In other words, the traffic on our main roads had increased at many times the rate predicted earlier.
Although hundreds of thousands of our citizens face the daily grind and maddening frustration of traffic log jams, every day, and face hours in cars to and from work and school, the other side appears unaware that the international benchmark for the introduction of a mass transit system is 10,000 persons per hour.
Further, once traffic reaches 20,000 persons per hour, it is well established that a railway is the only effective mass transit solution because buses simply can’t handle these traffic volumes, nor do roadways exist in Trinidad to accommodate the thousands of buses that would be required to move people quickly and efficiently.
Traffic congestion is negatively affecting the country’s productivity and Trinidad and Tobago has the highest level of traffic in the region. It is a clear indication of the inability of our country’s infrastructure to meet new and growing transportation demands. Fifteen years ago, we crossed the traffic threshold for the introduction of a railway, and five years ago we had gone past this threshold by 50 per cent.
It is even worse now, and it is reasonable to conclude that in 2013 that we have more than twice the volume of traffic at which any sensible country would seek to implement a mass transit system. Somebody on the other side must tell the parents and children who wake up at weird hours all over the country to face, twice daily, the certain traffic jams in an ever tightening gridlock on virtually every route, the day or year when this problem will come to an end.
In June 2008, a contract was awarded to the Trinitrain Consortium for the first phase of a project to design and construct a rail system for Trinidad. Phase 1 involved planning, identification of feasible alternatives, conceptual design and preliminary engineering of the preferred solution. Phase 2 of the project involved detailed design and construction and the final phase involved commissioning and operation of the system.
The cost of Phase 1, the engineering phase, was approximately TT$500 million, with the final cost of the railway project, when fully implemented, estimated at approximately TT$10 billion. To put these costs into perspective, the cost for planning and engineering of our critically needed railway project was five per cent of the cost of construction, well within the international benchmark of ten per cent for similar projects.
Compare this to the cost of consultancy fees and other non-construction costs for the billion-dollar Couva Hospital, now being implemented by the present Government, which, at almost $500 million, are estimated at almost 50 per cent of the construction cost of that project, or ten times the percentage for engineering work on the proposed railway project. Similar outrageous non-construction costs are expected for the dubious Penal Hospital project, earmarked to be given on a platter without tender to the infamous SNC-Lavalin company, which has been banned by the World Bank, among other scandalous contract awards by this discredited regime.
Compare the $10 billion cost for a nationwide mass transit rail system with the $ 7.0 billion Highway which may not reach Pt Fortin from Debe.
By May 2010, most of Phase 1 of the railway project had been completed.
The route alignment for both the east-west line from Diego Martin to Sangre Grande and the north-south line from Port of Spain to San Fernando had been selected and designed; the station locations had been identified, the preliminary design of the railway stations and depots completed; the land acquisition requirements had been established; the legal framework for the new railway authority had been prepared; the required rolling stock had been identified; the staffing and organizational structure of the railway had been formulated; contract documentation was well advanced; the maintenance requirements for the railway had been determined, and so on.
What did the UNC Government do? Bad mouth it and throw it out. What did they replace it with? A sneaky attempt at inviting proposals for a rail system from Port-of- Spain to Arima to give one of their friends a contract . When caught and exposed, they abandoned the idea. What has the country achieved to solve the traffic problem so far ..zilch, nada, absolutely nothing as the problem gets worse every day.
The original project was split into segments, to allow easy implementation and to spread the cost over several years. All this hapless Government had to do was to properly invite tenders for the detailed design and construction of the initial railway segments, and to move full speed ahead. If they had done so, by now, the initial east-west line from Port of Spain to St Augustine and the initial north-south line to Chaguanas would have been completed by now, and thousands of commuters would be travelling to work and school in comfort on a modern rapid railway, getting to work in minutes rather than hours.
This project would have truly brought Trinidad and Tobago into the 21st century and created the stimulus for economic growth and diversification, with new commercial and industrial developments and new employment opportunities springing up to serve the new transit system. That would have been real welcomed economic growth rather than having to cheat with random numbers.
But like everything else it was a PNM initiative it had to be bad-mouthed, lied about and discarded in the same way they did with the OPVs, Sautt, and the Wallerfield Industrial Park. They almost wrecked UTT. They abandoned the railway project and wasted all of the important pre-construction and planning work that had been done. They wasted 3 years blaming the PNM for every evil under the sun, whilst twiddling their thumbs. They have proposed no viable alternative solution to our traffic and transportation woes.
After all, if the present Government could spend billions of dollars in the Prime Minister’s constituency and elsewhere on every manner of grandiose and unnecessary mega project, designed primarily to benefit friends and family, we can certainly do better by implementing a much-needed infrastructure project that will benefit every single person in Trinidad.
Up on our return to office we will immediately approach the IDB for a review of the current situation; all existing data and engineering work done to date. Once the word is a go, then the PNM commits to giving the highest priority to building a mass transportation rail system to feature service on a backbone from Diego Martin to Sangre Grande with a southern component to La Romaine.
We will seek to obtain IDB long-term concesionary funding to finance this project which will positively change the face and circumstances of Trinidad and Tobago for the next century. The PNM, the party of development of this country, will once again shoulder the responsibility for developing this country and its people.
We eagerly look forward also to the many economic benefits of the high local input into the building of the route ways over a period of several years and the phased reduction of the intractable billion dollar fuel subsidy on completion.
Re. the bolded paragraphs, he have a point.
These ppl continue to embarrass themselves.
VB
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Regarding the article that Flex posted:
I don't live in T&T, and don't chose sides politically, but I have to agree with the article. I'm always in Trinidad, and see absolutely no reason why after so many years people are still putting-up with that ridiculous traffic daily on the nations roads and highways.
A solution should have been fully implemented by now.
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At the risk of sounding like a PNM sycophant comparing Rowley's statement to PP 'plans' and there vast difference in quality, ambition and vision for the country, and the whole country too.
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The noise pollution also helps decrease property values somewhat of homes that are located closest to the tracks
Not in the DC metro area. I can't afford a condo overlooking the metro/csx/amtrax lines. 500 thous. and up. In DC all the metro stops have mixed residential(with parking) and retail. It is booming real estate market in DC. So it depends on which neck of the woods you are situated.
Deeks, I keep a home in DC so I get what you're saying, so what you wrote is correct....however, I meant to also add that homes that are close to train tracks, but FAR from the convenience of the train stations, are the homes that typically have lower average real estate values. If a home is near to the noise of the train tracks, but 50 miles from the train station, then the real estate valuation isn't as great as the homes in the same districts, farther from the tracks.
Cities like DC, Baltimore, NYC, and their out-skirt suburbs are indeed a bit different though, since the convenience of being close to train stations to commute to work is a huge plus.
I would like to see a modernized mass transport system in Trinidad (yes even trains...lol), but I'm still apprehensive about if Trains are the best way to go, because of all the noise in an already very NOISY Trinidad...lol. But it looks like a Train-based transit system is indeed probably the best solution right now. (When that happens, I foresee people making a mint on selling ear-plugs. ;D) :beermug:
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This would have been ideal.
Jack Warner, when he became MoT scraped it cause is was not his idea or he wasn't benefitting from it.
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This would have been ideal.
Jack Warner, when he became MoT scraped it cause is was not his idea or he wasn't benefitting from it.
Right now Jack is passe. He had his chance and we have seen the results. We need the elevated rail or bus or elevated light-rail(elevated along the EW corridor, at least))
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$256M spent to pay pre-rapid rail bill
T&T Newsday Reports.
Over the past three years Government has paid the sum of $256.7 million on the $500 million loan borrowed by the People’s National Movement (PNM) administration for the pre-feasibility study conducted on the proposed rapid rail system to ease traffic woes.
“If we were to add up (monies spent) for interest rates only for the years 2013 to 2014,” Food Production Minister Devant Maharaj said yesterday. “It will add up to $256.7 million.”
At the sitting of the Senate in Port-of-Spain during the debate on the Bill to establish a Motor Vehicle Authority, Maharaj said PNM senators complain over and over that the People’s Partnership Government has spent billions of dollars on budget after budget, but they do not have the honesty to say how much of the allocation was debt incurred under the PNM.
“Government had no choice, but to set aside $101 million in the 2013 estimate, $97.7 million in 2014, and $58 million in 2015 to pay back the loan for a non-productive exercise,” he said.
That amount spent on the pre-feasibility study, he said, could have bought many hospital beds and buses to operate on the Priority Bus Route to ease traffic congestion.
Noting the PNM was once again talking about reintroducing the rapid rail system if it takes office after the general election, Maharaj said, “any incarnation, past or present, will bankrupt this country.”
If the pre-feasibility would have cost over $500 million, he questioned how much the feasibility study, the compulsory acquisition of land and other property, and the rapid rail infrastructure would cost the State.
He questioned also the PNM’s lack of consultation with stakeholders noting the Maxi Taxi Association last September criticised the party on the reintroduction of its proposal.
“Did they consult the maxi and taxi associations? Did they consult anybody at all apart from the (PNM’s) General Council?” he queried.
Another PNM expense covered, he said, was a $35.5 million debt owed to maxi taxi owners following a promise to them in 2005 when then Works and Transport minister Colm Imbert encouraged them to invest in 25-seater buses instead of 12-seater maxi taxis with the promise of a tax and VAT rebate. Until last week, after almost a decade, Maharaj said maxi taxi owners were waiting for the rebates, which the PNM had ignored.
The debate on the bill was halted after there were calls by Opposition and Independent Senators, including Dr Dhanayshar Mahabir, called for it to be sent to a special select committee because of the need for further consultation.
PNM Senator Avinash Singh said the bill was poorly drafted and needed more attention while Independent Senator Dr Kryaan Singh said it made very little or no provision to improve the lot of disabled persons who can drive their own cars. However, they all agreed the bill was needed.
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Rowley’s rapid rail to nowhere
By Ria Taitt (Express).
The message behind the second instalment of the “No Rowley” campaign is that People’s National Movement (PNM) leader Dr Keith Rowley is on a Rapid Railway to “nowhere”.
And to illustrate the point, Communications Minister Vasant Bharath yesterday said the United National Congress (UNC) chose as the venue the yard of The Museum of the City of Port of Spain, at South Quay, because it wanted to “interject a little humour” as well as “reinforce the seriousness of the situation” with respect to the Rapid Rail project.
A life-size cardboard image of a smiling Keith Rowley was placed inside and another at the back of the old-model train in the yard of the museum.
Journalists were also given a Thomas and Friends train and a mock ticket with Rowley’s picture next to a train bearing the balisier emblem on which the words “$60 billion train ticket to destination nowhere” are printed.
Asked about the appropriateness of a political party holding a news conference on State property to deliver a campaign message, and whether the others parties would be given similar access, Bharath said: “Absolutely, once they get permission.
“As you know, many public (political) meetings are held in schools across Trinidad and Tobago, so that is not an issue as far as we are concerned,” Bharath said.
The Communications Minister, who was speaking in his capacity as UNC campaign spokesman, was joined by UNC campaign manager Rodney Charles as he focused on the cost of the Rapid Rail project, which he put at $60 billion.
Exposing wastefulness
“Today we are going to expose the wastefulness and disregard for taxpayers’ money that Keith Rowley will show if elected as Prime Minister... Because Keith Rowley wants to build a vanity rail project that Trinidad and Tobago does not need and cannot afford. Far from serving the interests of the public, it is a one-man exercise in ego and vanity. As an unsuitable leader, with a poor record of service and delivery, this,” he said, pointing to the old train in the yard.
To criticisms of the campaign, Bharath said the UNC was aware of the “possible repercussions of how people may perceive what we are doing. But we are hopeful that if we stick to our position that we are not personally attacking Dr Rowley but are articulating a position based on the comments of his own colleagues”.
Bharath said he valued and respected the opinion by Dr Merle Hodge, but that did not mean he had to agree with her or others.
“We believe that what we are doing is the right thing,” he said.
Hodge, in a letter to the editor, described the campaign as a “descent into the muck of personal vilification”.
Bharath stated Ernie Ross and Ross Advertising were also free to make the statement they did (in which the company distanced itself from the campaign).
(http://www.trinidadexpress.com/storyimage/TT/20150722/LOCAL/150729800/AR/0/AR-150729800.jpg&MaxW=730&imageversion=Article)
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Well boy.
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Well boy.
dem people too jokey
..........wonder when all this done.........if Rowley win.....he could find d strength to be the "bigger man" , yuh how easy it is for trinis to take d low road
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Ah cyah wait to see this happen
https://www.youtube.com/v/S9KECyunSuU
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Well boy.
dem people too jokey
..........wonder when all this done.........if Rowley win.....he could find d strength to be the "bigger man" , yuh how easy it is for trinis to take d low road
I studying.
Two big man in an office...and plan out this.
"Wha we could do for the norowley site boy? I feel we could do with something appealing to children."
"AH! I know! We go pappy show Rowley with one ah dem old cartoon ting with the train....wha it name again? De one with the big moon faces and ting!"
"Arhmmmm....Ahrmm..it on the tip of my tongue yuh know...just now...leh me google it..."
Kifkifkifkifkif.
Steups. Dis is the kind of foolishness dat does get me vex when I get my payslip and I see what they taking for PAYE.
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But hear nah. I see the pic yesterday and saying to myself, nah ppl cyar be so idle.....now I seeing is Vasant and Rodney Charles personally gone down by the musuem to set this up??!! WTF!!!!.....
Sept 7th come fass!!!!
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Rowley’s rapid rail to nowhere
By Ria Taitt (Express).
The message behind the second instalment of the “No Rowley” campaign is that People’s National Movement (PNM) leader Dr Keith Rowley is on a Rapid Railway to “nowhere”.
And to illustrate the point, Communications Minister Vasant Bharath yesterday said the United National Congress (UNC) chose as the venue the yard of The Museum of the City of Port of Spain, at South Quay, because it wanted to “interject a little humour” as well as “reinforce the seriousness of the situation” with respect to the Rapid Rail project.
A life-size cardboard image of a smiling Keith Rowley was placed inside and another at the back of the old-model train in the yard of the museum.
Journalists were also given a Thomas and Friends train and a mock ticket with Rowley’s picture next to a train bearing the balisier emblem on which the words “$60 billion train ticket to destination nowhere” are printed.
Asked about the appropriateness of a political party holding a news conference on State property to deliver a campaign message, and whether the others parties would be given similar access, Bharath said: “Absolutely, once they get permission.
“As you know, many public (political) meetings are held in schools across Trinidad and Tobago, so that is not an issue as far as we are concerned,” Bharath said.
The Communications Minister, who was speaking in his capacity as UNC campaign spokesman, was joined by UNC campaign manager Rodney Charles as he focused on the cost of the Rapid Rail project, which he put at $60 billion.
Exposing wastefulness
“Today we are going to expose the wastefulness and disregard for taxpayers’ money that Keith Rowley will show if elected as Prime Minister... Because Keith Rowley wants to build a vanity rail project that Trinidad and Tobago does not need and cannot afford. Far from serving the interests of the public, it is a one-man exercise in ego and vanity. As an unsuitable leader, with a poor record of service and delivery, this,” he said, pointing to the old train in the yard.
To criticisms of the campaign, Bharath said the UNC was aware of the “possible repercussions of how people may perceive what we are doing. But we are hopeful that if we stick to our position that we are not personally attacking Dr Rowley but are articulating a position based on the comments of his own colleagues”.
Bharath said he valued and respected the opinion by Dr Merle Hodge, but that did not mean he had to agree with her or others.
“We believe that what we are doing is the right thing,” he said.
Hodge, in a letter to the editor, described the campaign as a “descent into the muck of personal vilification”.
Bharath stated Ernie Ross and Ross Advertising were also free to make the statement they did (in which the company distanced itself from the campaign).
(http://www.trinidadexpress.com/storyimage/TT/20150722/LOCAL/150729800/AR/0/AR-150729800.jpg&MaxW=730&imageversion=Article)
i don't know where some trinis sense of humor gone but i find that cut out real funny... what happen to the days of picong, everyone getting on like sorf candle now because real money involved in TT...
lighten up people and stop being so damn sour... if you giving talk, learn to take it as well..
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so i just heard Rowley intend to raise VAT or borrow the money to build the rail.. interesting, how come no one bothered to mention that..
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Maybe because I am in foreign, I don't see the the big deal about the attacks on Rowley. That is how politics going on now with the internet and heavy media sponsorship by parties with big money. You get what you pay for. All those who talking about the integrity are jokers and hypocrits. Political campaigns have no morals especially when it coming down to the wire. All the winners do is issue a hypocritical apology for going a bit overboard for mischaracterisation, and simply move on. Integrity commissions and campaign finance are a waste of time, until people get hurt or the financiers go belly up. I just hope when when Rowley attack "she kyat", they don't scream he is a bully. These things goes both ways. If Rowley make mischaracterisations, he should expect blows.
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so i just heard Rowley intend to raise VAT or borrow the money to build the rail.. interesting, how come no one bothered to mention that..
I would not be surprised that TAXES will be raised for a capital project like that. Don't bs the people. Just tell them straight. But it will benefit the country in the long run. We have very little space to build highways.
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Maybe because I am in foreign, I don't see the the big deal about the attacks on Rowley. That is how politics going on now with the internet and heavy media sponsorship by parties with big money. You get what you pay for. All those who talking about the integrity are jokers and hypocrits. Political campaigns have no morals especially when it coming down to the wire. All the winners do is issue a hypocritical apology for going a bit overboard for mischaracterisation, and simply move on. Integrity commissions and campaign finance are a waste of time, until people get hurt or the financiers go belly up. I just hope when when Rowley attack "she kyat", they don't scream he is a bully. These things goes both ways. If Rowley make mischaracterisations, he should expect blows.
exactly.. it works both ways! bully and against 'women' will be the rally call.
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Maybe because I am in foreign, I don't see the the big deal about the attacks on Rowley. That is how politics going on now with the internet and heavy media sponsorship by parties with big money. You get what you pay for. All those who talking about the integrity are jokers and hypocrits. Political campaigns have no morals especially when it coming down to the wire. All the winners do is issue a hypocritical apology for going a bit overboard for mischaracterisation, and simply move on. Integrity commissions and campaign finance are a waste of time, until people get hurt or the financiers go belly up. I just hope when when Rowley attack "she kyat", they don't scream he is a bully. These things goes both ways. If Rowley make mischaracterisations, he should expect blows.
exactly.. it works both ways! bully and against 'women' will be the rally call.
Exactly brother... Don't throw stone in glass house.. If the Madame pm attack Rowley, she can also be attacked in the same manner and no one should complain about anything..
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Bus transit system, Tarouba revamp
By Andre Bagoo (Newsday)
A BUS RAPID transit system will be introduced to tackle growing levels of traffic, Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar said yesterday as she unveiled the People’s Partnership (PP) manifesto for the September 7 general election.
The 112-page document states several solutions have been assessed.
It states:
1) Transit hubs will be constructed in Chaguanas, Arima and St Augustine;
2) Properly rationalised, dedicated school bus transportation will be instituted;
3) Dedicated bus services for industrial estate workers will be developed;
4) Two dedicated, predictable bus rapid transit systems from north to south and east to west will be established. Several considerations have been taken into account, namely (1) rationalisation of what exists; (2) management of traffic; (3) capacity for effectiveness; (4) cost-effectiveness; and (5) sustainability.
“This plan, together with an opening up of the highway system and a series of improved connector roads will allow us to begin to address: the huge increase in vehicle ownership with convenient and adequate parking provisions; the very costly burden of high fuel subsidies, which, with enlightened alternative solutions, can be addressed; a dedicated initiative to make a significant dent in high air pollution and greenhouse gas emissions; a more efficient and reliable public transport system that can get citizens from home to another place and back regardless of the nature of the trip – work, school or recreation.
Even vehicle owners and users need some reassurance of alternative, efficient transportation options; and a practical approach to rationalise and integrate PH taxis into a holistic, integrated system of easy access and safe, reliable transportation.
In remarks made at the manifesto launch held at the Aranjuez North Secondary School, Boundary Extension Road, San Juan, Persad-Bissessar noted the objection has never been to a mass transit system but rather the large expense proposed for the PNM’s rapid rail project.
Another aspect of the manifesto involves plans for the long-delayed, billion-dollar Tarouba stadium project which has straddled two Parliaments.
“We will transform the Tarouba facility into the Tarouba Sports Academy,” the document states.
“This can support activities at the nearby aquatic centre and the cycling velodrome in Couva. The establishment of this academy can also be linked with activities at the Ato Boldon Stadium where running tracks will be upgraded and with the University of Trinidad and Tobago (UTT), which could provide academic input on the sports academy.
This will encourage our elite athletes to remain here and be homegrown while achieving similar benefits that may have been afforded by going abroad. This can also be a cost-benefiting factor, allowing more athletes opportunities.” A section of the manifesto handles renewable energy and a series of measures to encourage it, including solar-powered schools, communities centres and street-lighting.
AN INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY Later on, it was outlined that steps will be taken to ensure that the Judiciary will become independent of the financing mechanisms of the State and will fund itself. The manifesto document states that within its first 100 days a PP government will, “initiate action to establish a financially independent Judiciary.” Of the criminal justice system generally, the coalition states it will, “engage the judiciary to come up with a workable plan to significantly reduce the backlog of cases before the courts with targets and timelines.” Elsewhere in the document, a series of other measures are proposed to bring about a “zero-tolerance approach” to crime.
“There is not single solution or quick fix as the impetus for deviant behaviour has both economic and social dimensions and originates from within and outside our country,” the document states. “As such, neither the government nor the police can fight crime alone.
For a safer Trinidad and Tobago we also need a more efficient criminal justice system and the support of all social partners and we must empower all Trinidadians and Tobagonians to be part of the solution.” The coalition proposes to increase community policing and to “strengthen surveillance and control of our territorial borders to stem the illegal entry of goods and people.”
Other measures include:
• Rehabilitation of offenders through a first offenders programme that prevents recidivism and offers more concentrated education and training inside prison to bridge to transitional opportunities in the market.
• Reduction in delays in the determination of court matters by freeing up the backlog and by establishing specialised courts. This will include redesigning of the case management system.
• Establishing specialised courts to address issues such as family matters and juvenile matters.
• Applying technology to the judicial system, such as the video conferencing of remand hearings and digital audio recording to supplement transcription.
• Introducing parole and community supervision that addresses the risks and needs of each offender and ensures that inmates who pose the greatest threats to public safety are effectively managed.
• Providing support to help newly released inmates to transition.
• Providing greater support for former inmates who genuinely wish to renounce their gang membership and assume a law-abiding lifestyle.
• Developing a programme for incarcerated gang members that encourages them to renounce their gang membership.
• Developing a programme that links imprisonment with agricultural production.
The Coast Guard facilities and community comfort patrols are to be strengthened, though no details are given. Persad-Bissessar announced that on Monday the coalition would conduct an exercise dubbed, “Manifesto Monday” which will see constituencies meet over these plans which were drawn up based on feedback from citizens. She said all 41 of the PP’s candidates will be unveiled on August 16 and she would not be “jumbied” to unveil them before time.
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Don't agree with her, I believe a rapid rail is necessary ... It should be considered
They should figure out a way to do it..
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Don't agree with her, I believe a rapid rail is necessary ... It should be considered
They should figure out a way to do it..
now for sure you will never get that rail because rowley certainly will not win this election with this sexual harassment charge hanging over his head. moonilal and kamla would milk this cow for every last drop of milk and i fear that the good doctor would not recover from the latest development, and it serves him right. if you want the highest office you must act the part. what a dumbell.
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Don't agree with her, I believe a rapid rail is necessary ... It should be considered
They should figure out a way to do it..
now for sure you will never get that rail because rowley certainly will not win this election with this sexual harassment charge hanging over his head. moonilal and kamla would milk this cow for every last drop of milk and i fear that the good doctor would not recover from the latest development, and it serves him right. if you want the highest office you must act the part. what a dumbell.
Is it certain that he harassed the lady.
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Kamla: PNM Rapid Rail to cost US$10 billion
By Richardson Dhalai (Newsday).
As she formally opened the $30 million Debe Interchange to Gandhi Village, part of the Solomon Hochoy Highway Extension to Point Fortin, yesterday, Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar slammed the Opposition PNM’s Rapid Rail Project saying it would cost just over $60 billion and not $10billion as was being touted by the PNM.
PNM Diego Martin North East candidate and former Works Minister, Colm Imbert, at a recent political meeting at Guaico, said the railway, according to his cost estimates, would cost as much as the San Fernando to Point Fortin highway.
“The cost of the railway from Diego Martin to Sangre Grande is the same price as the cost of the highway from San Fernando to Point Fortin — $10 billion...
and they take cost of the railway and multiply by six.
It is TT$10 billion and they say it is TT$60 billion, they told you that to make you afraid,” he contended.
At the event opening yesterday, Persad- Bisessar, citing a feasibility study conducted by DBOM contractors on the Rapid Rail project, said that the $500million study found the project’s capital cost outweighed the economic benefits of the rapid rail project.
“We spent $500 million dollars on a study to tell us that they are unable to produce a design that is economically feasible but more, the capital cost of the project outweigh the estimated cost benefits by over 50 percent,” Persad- Bissessar said.
“They are making another promise of a rapid rail project with a very huge cost, they are linking that rapid rail project by saying that it will only cost them $10 billion. But when the Rapid Rail project speaks of $10 billion, it says US dollars and when you multiply by six, it is TT$60 billion,” she pointed out.
“My legacy will not be in tall buildings but in hospitals and schools and that is why over the past five years we have built over 100 schools,” she added.
And, without identifying Highway Reroute Movement, leader Dr Wayne Kublalsingh by name, the Prime Minister also expressed relief that he had not died some 200 days after embarking on a hunger strike against the Debe to Mon Desir highway segment.
“I thank God that 200 odd days later, he is still alive,” she said, adding, “but I also thank God that I had the courage and the strength and the faith.
I could not let one or two or three stop the progress of the majority of the people and that is what democracy is about.” “The majority will determine how we go and I took that vision and said we will build that highway and we will continue to build it,” she said.
NIDCO president Dr Carson Charles, also speaking yesterday, said approximately 55 percent of the $7.5 billion highway had been completed and would accelerate the work to be completed in 2016.
Charles said a water management study had also been commissioned regarding flooding in the area.
He said the highway would not contribute to additional flooding in the area.
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That is what pissed me off, that 500 million feasibility study. 500 hundred million?
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That is what pissed me off, that 500 million feasibility study. 500 hundred million?
You know what pissing me off more?? That Kamla had 5 years to address the issue of traffic and transport and did nada.......in the meantime, they increased the quota for foreign used vehicles for their supporters in the foreign used car business so ah setta cars on the road clogging up the over burdened road network we have....
Why she doh explain how de arse we find $7 billion to fund the highway to Point Fortin from RECURRENT expenditure, and why we didn't go to the IDB to fund it and why we used OAS from Brazil who is now bankrupt and cyar finish de job so we hiring local contractors to finish it....more money in friends' pockets...
We Kamla doh explain that??!!
THAT pisses me off!!!! All they could do is point fingers but have no solutions to any our problems.....waste of blasted time....
BUILD THE BLASTED RAIL!!!
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I still agree to build the rail. No more feasibility studies, though.
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I still agree to build the rail. No more feasibility studies, though.
PNM already did a feasibility study. All that the is left is for the general T&T public to decide if they want the rail system or not and if they are willing to pay for it to be biult.
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Like I said before even if it is just the east-west line I think it would make a positive difference. They really should consider running the line up to chaguaramas at reduced frequencies during off peak periods and increasing the frequency for peak periods and events hosted in chaguaramas esp. with that waterpark being built. As long as it is well policed, and the infrastructure and safety are both well maintained it will be a benefit to Trinidad.
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There's a difference between a rapid rail and a light rail system. When Vancouver built one of their rapid rail lines a couple years ago, the cost was over $500 million TT per KM. The distance between POS and Arima is about 28KM, so at those costs the line between Arima and POS could be TT $14 billion alone. Imbert is ridiculous to suggest that the entire system will cost TT 10 billion.
One thing not mentioned is the "feasibility study" wasn't actually a feasibility study - it was actually a design study. We paid $500 million to design a rapid rail system and do geo-technical work on the different phases, without even doing a feasibility study if we could afford it. The design study put the price (excluding property acquisitions) at somewhere around 46 billion TTD / 7 billion USD. With acquisitions, that was estimated to be 60 billion TTD. The only "feasibility" part of the $500M study was a price at the end, and that's when the whole thing stopped.
A contract was actually signed to build the rapid rail project with a TriniTrain Consortium, resulting in the $500M study which was Phase 1 of the contract. See this release from April 2008:
TRINIDAD & TOBAGO: The Trinitrain consortium of Bouygues Construction, Alstom Transport and RATP Développement announced on April 11 that it had been selected by the government and its National Infrastructure Development Co to design, build, operate and maintain a two-line passenger rail system on Trinidad.
The 'express' rail lines will have a total length of 105 km, including around 20 km of viaducts, and approximately 10 stations. A 50 km line will link the capital Port of Spain to San Fernando in the south of the island, while the 54 km second line will cross from east to west between Port of Spain and Sangre Grande.
Trinitrain will conduct preliminary studies to finalise the route and detailed specifications during the US$70m first phase of the contract, expected to last 20 months. Costs and scheduling will then be agreed with NIDCO.
Civil works for the project will be managed by Bouygues Travaux Publics, with Alstom responsible for railway systems and rolling stock. Construction is estimated to take four years, after which RATP Développement will handle operations and maintenance for 15 years.
The Trinitrain consortium will be working on the project with the Covec subsidiary of China Railways Engineering Corp, locally-based construction company Daynco and Canadian engineering consultancy Dessau.
Source: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/trinidad-rapid-rail-consortium-confirmed.html
Honestly there's no way T&T can afford a rapid rail system. What SHOULD be done is a comparison between a light raid system or some other mass transit system (bus, or otherwise), and then we should proceed with the best option for the country. The posters saying here "no more feasibility studies" are not recognizing that we actually never had one done.
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PNM already did a feasibility study. All that the is left is for the general T&T public to decide if they want the rail system or not and if they are willing to pay for it to be biult.
This is incorrect. What the Manning administration did was initiate the start of the rapid rail system, and signed contracts for the design, construction, operation, and maintenance. There was no feasibility study done.
A feasibility study would have been an estimate of different systems/options with different price tags, and an economic comparison of the different options. This was never done by either the Manning/PNM administration or the Kamla/UNC/PP administration. We still haven't actually evaluated the different options, costs, and benefits.
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Like I said before even if it is just the east-west line I think it would make a positive difference. They really should consider running the line up to chaguaramas at reduced frequencies during off peak periods and increasing the frequency for peak periods and events hosted in chaguaramas esp. with that waterpark being built. As long as it is well policed, and the infrastructure and safety are both well maintained it will be a benefit to Trinidad.
It should go up to Sando, passing Ato and Mannie Ramjohn.
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Ok this right here is what get me vex. Everybody should know by now the rapid rail is intended to go from North to Central to South and the East-West corridor. But yet I come in here and still see people thinking it may only go in the East-West corridor and some are requesting it should go to Sando as if it is not already intended to go Sando.
Ok so let me be the poster who will make another post of the initial map of what the rapid rail would look like..
http://s706.photobucket.com/user/truetrini2010/media/RapidRail.jpg.html
(http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww67/truetrini2010/RapidRail.jpg)
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Sando, that is exactly what we mean. We known that render is the logical routes. But some on the for um feel that even if the UNC get back into power, they should seriously consider the rail service. If no the entire thing, but at least the EW corridor which has the densest traffic flow in the country. I insist that Sando should always be in the picture, even iF it takes longer than usual to build.
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Sando, that is exactly what we mean. We known that render is the logical routes. But some on the for um feel that even if the UNC get back into power, they should seriously consider the rail service. If no the entire thing, but at least the EW corridor which has the densest traffic flow in the country. I insist that Sando should always be in the picture, even iF it takes longer than usual to build.
The present government has come out publicly and said on more than one occasion they will not build the rapid rail. They insist on a new Bus system. Which to me does not make sense because that may just cause more traffic and the idea is to solve the traffic problem.
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They insist on a new Bus system. Which to me does not make sense because that may just cause more traffic and the idea is to solve the traffic problem.
That's not necessarily true. In many cities there are dedicated bus corridors that a separate from the existing road infrastructure (like the PBR right now). Also, if we were to convert certain lanes to priority bus lanes / bus right of way, then while it would reduce the number of lanes available to private cars, it will also improve the speed / reliability of the bus service and discourage people from driving (hence removing cars from the road, reducing congestion).
That said, Kamla's bus transit announcement has no details whatsoever. For buses to be "RAPID" they need to have dedicated corridors. When you start building dedicated bus corridors, the cost difference between that and light rail end up being very close (I'm saying light rail, not rapid rail).
Frankly a rail system alone isn't going to fix our traffic woes. We need a combination of a fast mass transit (whether rapid bus/rail) combined with an effective bus system.
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They insist on a new Bus system. Which to me does not make sense because that may just cause more traffic and the idea is to solve the traffic problem.
That's not necessarily true. In many cities there are dedicated bus corridors that a separate from the existing road infrastructure (like the PBR right now). Also, if we were to convert certain lanes to priority bus lanes / bus right of way, then while it would reduce the number of lanes available to private cars, it will also improve the speed / reliability of the bus service and discourage people from driving (hence removing cars from the road, reducing congestion).
That said, Kamla's bus transit announcement has no details whatsoever. For buses to be "RAPID" they need to have dedicated corridors. When you start building dedicated bus corridors, the cost difference between that and light rail end up being very close (I'm saying light rail, not rapid rail).
Frankly a rail system alone isn't going to fix our traffic woes. We need a combination of a fast mass transit (whether rapid bus/rail) combined with an effective bus system.
To summarize my answer to your points I will say Trinidad do not have the type of roads to have an increas in buses that will also move at an effective time schedule as the cities you have alluded to... Not jus road structure but the amount of vehicles on the road now will make it difficult for the bus system to move at that effective pace. A rapid rail however as Imbert has said will not interfere with the vehicles on the road because the train lines will be segregated.
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I support the rail fully, but at what cost?
It may mean cutting in areas like sport or culture, even worse education.. Or if we borrow, we put our nation in further debt with low oil prices..
If the oil prices were a lot higher, I believe we could build in segments.. Every year, but that would take close to 8 years to complete without incurring substantial debt to the nation and or draining the treasury.. Or cutting and affecting other sectors
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To summarize my answer to your points I will say Trinidad do not have the type of roads to have an increas in buses that will also move at an effective time schedule as the cities you have alluded to... Not jus road structure but the amount of vehicles on the road now will make it difficult for the bus system to move at that effective pace. A rapid rail however as Imbert has said will not interfere with the vehicles on the road because the train lines will be segregated.
That's what bus corridors are for - that is, new road dedicated for buses only. They are either at grade (i.e. on the same level running in parallel) or segregated. They are bus rapid transit systems around the world that use bus corridors. Ottawa is an example of a city that has a bus rapid transit system with dedicated corridors.
There are different types of rail systems, rapid is one of them. Rapid rail is as its name implies, moves quickly. However the infrastructure requirements are extremely high to support it, from both the rail gauge construction, track supports, and station designs/length.
The problem with the rapid rail project of the Manning era is that they did not conduct a feasibility study before deciding to proceed with the design phase and started designing grades, trains and stations (this is the bulk of the $500 million cost). The initial figure floated around by Manning in 2006 was around TT $16 billion for the cost of the entire project.
What we as taxpayers should get regardless of if Rowley/Kamla win is a non-political comparison showing the variety of different mass transit options with the different costs/impacts/benefits, so that we know we are making the best long term decision for the country. We absolutely need to factor in the operating costs of each solution - rapid rail is usually the most expensive to operate and we cannot evaluate it on construction costs alone.
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RAPID RAIL BACK ON TRACK
By Asha Javeed (Express).
What's in tomorrow's budget? Authority, mass transit system return......
IF national budgets are categorised by goodies, Budget 2016 should hold little surprise.
In 2014 when he was Opposition Leader, Dr Keith Rowley was conscious he could be criticised as a "prophet of doom" when he gave his response to budget 2015, titled "Opportunity Lost—the Missing Years".
In what marked his 24th year of participating in budget debates, Rowley painted a stark picture of Trinidad and Tobago's economic reality—five consistent years of budget deficits which have worsened the national debt, a crisis in the country's energy sector and the "burgeoning crime and general lawlessness in our society".
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I wasn't surprise of some telling figures by Colm Imbert, of the budget speech delivered earlier today. To be continued on Friday October 9,2015.
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I don't see the project taking place in the near future, although I am for it. This is an important budget to stop the bleeding.
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I wasn't surprise of some telling figures by Colm Imbert, of the budget speech delivered earlier today. To be continued on Friday October 9,2015.
The opposition bench didn't seem surprised either. There was complete silence when the severity of the situation was revealed.
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The Finance Minister speaks about the Rapid Rail during his budget presentation. See from 1:13:47 of this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn0POHYtMm0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn0POHYtMm0)
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The Finance Minister speaks about the Rapid Rail during his budget presentation. See from 1:13:47 of this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn0POHYtMm0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn0POHYtMm0)
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:beermug:
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(http://www.trinidadexpress.com/storyimage/TT/20151003/LOCAL/151009861/AR/0/AR-151009861.jpg&MaxW=730&imageversion=Article)
Rapid Rail Project still on Government’s Agenda
Government is still interested in the development of a rapid rail project in the country.
Finance Minister, Colm Imbert, gave the indication while responding to questions posed to him today.
Speaking at the Trinidad and Tobago Chamber of Industry and Commerce post -budget forum held in Port of Spain, Minister Imbert explained that the Inter-American Development Bank has expressed an interest in the mega project.
http://news.power102fm.com/rapid-rail-project-still-on-governments-agenda-31525#sthash.CIsveMYk.dpuf (http://news.power102fm.com/rapid-rail-project-still-on-governments-agenda-31525#sthash.CIsveMYk.dpuf)
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VIDEO Report; https://www.facebook.com/cnewslive/videos/10153623401375610/ (https://www.facebook.com/cnewslive/videos/10153623401375610/)
The Government is going full speed ahead with the rapid rail project. However, Finance Minister Colm Imbert says it will be very cautious in doing so. He said from what he estimates, the rapid rail will only cost $10 billion and will be done under a Public Private Partnership to ease the burden on the country.
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Getting back to rail transport. Here is Panama. No oil or gas. But has international trade, banking and the Canal. They are building an elevated subway. We make a substantial amount of money from hydro-carbons. How come we can't build one. What wrong with we?
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=139430896#post139430896
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Getting back to rail transport. Here is Panama. No oil or gas. But has international trade, banking and the Canal. They are building an elevated subway. We make a substantial amount of money from hydro-carbons. How come we can't build one. What wrong with we?
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=139430896#post139430896
Corrupt and no revolutionaries to counter the corrupt upper crust
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Getting back to rail transport. Here is Panama. No oil or gas. But has international trade, banking and the Canal. They are building an elevated subway. We make a substantial amount of money from hydro-carbons. How come we can't build one. What wrong with we?
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=139430896#post139430896
Corrupt and no revolutionaries to counter the corrupt upper crust
from what I heard the UNC emptied the treasury while gas and oil prices fell below budgetary standards where the government is so strapped for cash that they have to borrow from the stabilization fund just to maintain and keep the country afloat. I heard it's a monthly struggle for the new government to pay their bills on time and has to dig deep to keep from going to the IMF. I can't imagine politicians getting away with so much corruption like the former government did. this is outrageous.