Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: vibetrini on January 05, 2006, 02:29:57 PM
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Big Club definition for this thread - A club that is well known around the globe for it's current exploits on and off the field, and one that continuously draws much international media attention.
Yorke played with ManU (one ah d biggest clubs in the world)
Latas played with Rangers and Porto (both of which are not major clubs currently based on the above definition and cannot rank with ManU and Madrid, etc in a present day scenario)
Other than that, everyone else seems to play for mediocre clubs
Wha Allyuh Think?
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Big Club definition for this thread - A club that is well known around the globe for it's current exploits on and off the field, and one that continuously draws much international media attention.
Yorke played with ManU (one ah d biggest clubs in the world)
Latas played with Rangers and Porto (both of which are not major clubs currently based on the above definition and cannot rank with ManU and Madrid, etc in a present day scenario)
Other than that, everyone else seems to play for mediocre clubs
Wha Allyuh Think?
One word: Quality
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Big Club definition for this thread - A club that is well known around the globe for it's current exploits on and off the field, and one that continuously draws much international media attention.
Yorke played with ManU (one ah d biggest clubs in the world)
Latas played with Rangers and Porto (both of which are not major clubs currently based on the above definition and cannot rank with ManU and Madrid, etc in a present day scenario)
Other than that, everyone else seems to play for mediocre clubs
Wha Allyuh Think?
Porto could get een with ah umph.... They win Champions league last year man!!... they also win de old European Cup in 1988......
So ok beside Yorke and Latapy.... yes quality is de answer... have ah lil luck in it too....
but when yuh tell yuhself... 1.3 MM population.... we eh doing too bad yuh know
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Big Club definition for this thread - A club that is well known around the globe for it's current exploits on and off the field, and one that continuously draws much international media attention.
Yorke played with ManU (one ah d biggest clubs in the world)
Latas played with Rangers and Porto (both of which are not major clubs currently based on the above definition and cannot rank with ManU and Madrid, etc in a present day scenario)
Other than that, everyone else seems to play for mediocre clubs
Wha Allyuh Think?
Porto could get een with ah umph.... They win Champions league last year man!!... they also win de old European Cup in 1988......
So ok beside Yorke and Latapy.... yes quality is de answer... have ah lil luck in it too....
but when yuh tell yuhself... 1.3 MM population.... we eh doing too bad yuh know
I say so too.
Porto and Rangers are world-class teams that will easily rank with Man U and Madrid, and de way Madrid doing these days yuh might want to reconsider them. :beermug:
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Andrews rangers around long time decent club. not close to MAn U but ok.
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I eh sure bout that Rangers part dey Grande man...
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We produce 2-3 top class players in the past how many years. I had high hopes for Stern but it didn't work out the best way it could have.
We don't have the quality to make those big teams.
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I would have to add Marvin Andrews in there with Rangers since they were in the Champions League. Rangers was the first Scottish team to make it to the knockout phase.
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Clubs still don't have much respect for West indian players ah guess. Until we make a decent showing in a few WC. real hard for TT players.
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how about other players from the region? At least we had 2 that played for top teams, what about the US, JA, Mexico, central american teams etc.. what's their record. Leh we eh diminish what we 2 fellas accomplish..
BTW..like allyuh calling out "name caller" Winnypeg fury!.. dat man go bring out real list
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2 words- work permits
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the question you should ask yourself, is:
Which of our players do you feel could/should have been playing with a "big club" ?
Forgetting Trini bias and being honest and objective.
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I feel Faustin coulda get ah contract... and do well abroad.. he had de tools... we will never know
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I think a major point is also drive and work ethic... Yorke was driven always to play for a big club and win championships ... Latapy in his prime had the ability of a Zidane in my opinion, but failed to play for a big club. Many of our players seem content with staying in English 2nd division and in the Scottish League... many of them speak of getting to English 1st division or playing for a struggling premiership team, instead of saying that they wanna play for Barcelona, Milan, Arsenal and the like.
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I don't really think that we have the quality. As someone just asked. apart from Latas and Yorke, which other person on present team do you think has the quality to play with a real top team.
And i don't want some people to say Hardest. as has also been said pretty good for a small population base.
And Rangers is no big team.
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I think a major point is also drive and work ethic... Yorke was driven always to play for a big club and win championships ... Latapy in his prime had the ability of a Zidane in my opinion, but failed to play for a big club. Many of our players seem content with staying in English 2nd division and in the Scottish League... many of them speak of getting to English 1st division or playing for a struggling premiership team.
I think this assessment is a bit unfair in many ways:
1 - Latapy DID play for a big club. What do you think Porto is? A joke? Porto has been big club for many many years and recently won both the EUFA Cup and the Champions League back to back. That is not a big club?
2 - Drive is not something that I think is lacking in most of our foreign-based professionals. What is lacking is quality relative to the other players in the leagues and opportunity due to legal restrictions such as work permit rules and foreign player limits. Yes Yorke was (is) driven, but he was also a very high quality player. As driven as Stern is at the club level (and you canot second guess his drive as a player, look how far he has come from) how much higher do you think he could go, or could have gone? Not very much in my opinion. Stern at his best will never be comparable to top-rated strikers at the "big clubs" and so he will remain a starter for a fringe Premiership team or a top Championship club.
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I think a major point is also drive and work ethic... Yorke was driven always to play for a big club and win championships ... Latapy in his prime had the ability of a Zidane in my opinion, but failed to play for a big club. Many of our players seem content with staying in English 2nd division and in the Scottish League... many of them speak of getting to English 1st division or playing for a struggling premiership team, instead of saying that they wanna play for Barcelona, Milan, Arsenal and the like.
Yuh hit the nail on the head.......as with everyone in life......you may have the talent but if u dont have discipline, drive, determination and follow through...it will not happen for you...!..
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Newcastle is not a huge club like manboo, but then again not many are. I would have considered Newcastle a relatively big club with decent success before Souness days. I think they are as good as Rangers.
If you agree then add Neil Shaka Hislop to that list
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Typical example....TI's boy....."hardest"
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Newcastle is not a huge club like manboo, but then again not many are. I would have considered Newcastle a relatively big club with decent success before Souness days. I think they are as good as Rangers.
If you agree then add Neil Shaka Hislop to that list
Newcastle has big ambitions, a big stadium and big transfer and wage budgets, but no, Newcastle is not a "big club". Rangers is a big "Scottish " club, but also not a "big club" in my mind. Not worldwide, as with Newcastle.
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Might as well list the clubs you talking about.
Cuz Shaka played for Newcastle when they finish 2nd in the EPL.
Ah mean....ah man like Shearer is a big player but if Newcastle don't count he didn't play for no big side either.
G14 Clubs
| Arsenal | AC Milan | Bayer Leverkusen | Paris St-Germain . | Barcelona | Ajax | Porto |
| Liverpool | Inter Milan . | Bayern Munich | Marseille | Real Madrid . | PSV Eindhoven | |
| Manchester United . | Juventus | Borussia Dortmond . | Lyon | Valencia | | |
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When Shaka was at Newcastle they were a top team with man like Asprilla. Dey boil down like bhagi now but back in de day. So add Shaka to the list.
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To answer Kicker being honest i don't think any of them could stand up in the big leagues. the current senior squad.
possibly jones youth, size and strength he a good future serious upside potential. good investment
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Shaka has to be included...when he got signed to NC, it was a major player in the Premierships...Keegan could've gotten almost any Keeper in the Prem. but he went on Div. down for Shaka.
Nakhid palyed for a damn good club in Belgium...fogot the name. :D
And sometimes it's a matter of opportunitties: Nixon was going to be looked at by an Italian Prem Club, but the new Coach dropped him to the Second Team.
And of course yes...quality...Look at Carlos..how he catching he ass to get into the Prem.
VB
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Might as well list the clubs you talking about.
Cuz Shaka played for Newcastle when they finish 2nd in the EPL.
Ah mean....ah man like Shearer is a big player but if Newcastle don't count he didn't play for no big side either.
G14 Clubs
| Arsenal | AC Milan | Bayer Leverkusen | Paris St-Germain . | Barcelona | Ajax | Porto |
| Liverpool | Inter Milan . | Bayern Munich | Marseille | Real Madrid . | PSV Eindhoven | |
| Manchester United . | Juventus | Borussia Dortmond . | Lyon | Valencia | | |
I like that list dcs. I would also add to it a few Clubs on the American continent such as:
River Plate
Boca Juniors
Corinthians
Palmeiras
America (Mexico)
Also even Penarol (Uruguay), Saprissa (Costa Rica) and probably Olimpia (Honduras).
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I might be wrong but I get the impression that players at "big clubs" either:
1. come through the "big club's" youth system.
2. get scooped up from a club that is well networked in the same market (league for eg.) as the "big club"...either via scouting, or direct competition........after impressive performances
3. perform extraordinarily well for their "not-as-well-networked" team (outside of the market)in such a capacity so as to attract the attention of a big club.....
I think Trini players therefore depend most heavily on option 3............and because of the lack of strength of the network outside of the "big club" market- (PFL for example)...... to get the attention needed, it would take the sort of performances that none of our players are capable of.
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I might be wrong but I get the impression that players at "big clubs" either:
1. come through the "big club's" youth system.
2. get scooped up from a club that is well networked in the same market (league for eg.) as the "big club"...either via scouting, or direct competition........after impressive performances
3. perform extraordinarily well for their "not-as-well-networked" team (outside of the market)in such a capacity so as to attract the attention of a big club.....
I think Trini players therefore depend most heavily on option 3............and because of the lack of strength of the network outside of the "big club" market- (PFL for example)...... to get the attention needed, it would take the sort of performances that none of our players are capable of.
welcome back..... to the cold weather :beermug: :beermug: :beermug:
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thanks bredda......... :beermug: :beermug:
Trini was sweet....but iz back to de grind
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well porto was and is ah big club and rangers may not be as big as the others but rangers is ah big club in scotland. when yuh talking about bid clubs them clubs looking for the best men all over the world so if yuh doh have that drive and determination to compete at ah high level then yuh wouldnt make it at ah big club because if you cyar make it they're is millions of other men for them to choose from, we have some quality playres but we need that drive and determination like what yorke, latas and shaka had
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I like that list dcs. I would also add to it a few Clubs on the American continent such as:
River Plate
Boca Juniors
Corinthians
Palmeiras
America (Mexico)
Also even Penarol (Uruguay), Saprissa (Costa Rica) and probably Olimpia (Honduras).
For real. Another topic is why our players don't break into these other markets. Doesn't seem like there is any effort to tap into those opportunities. Money obviously not as much but we also lack the network....agents, managers etc. Look how Rednapp love a Trini player...carrying them from Club to Club.
Another issue is where our young players develop (16-22). College, locally. Remember Dwight left when he was real young and it took him a good while to take it to the next level(s). Some of them go across kinda old....Bleeder not young.
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vibetrini you talking alot of rubbish manchester united coulld never be in the same class as real madrid ,barcilona,ac millan,juventis both fc porto and rangers are big name clubs and is well respected around the world even newcastle could be put in that boat and to lesser extent the grasshoppers.
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vibetrini you talking alot of rubbish manchester united coulld never be in the same class as real madrid ,barcilona,ac millan,juventis both fc porto and rangers are big name clubs and is well respected around the world even newcastle could be put in that boat and to lesser extent the grasshoppers.
aye aye..... I ent no fan of Man BOO but you saying they is not de class of Madrid, Barcelona etc etc but still wanna put Rangers Porto and Grasshoppers
You talkin rubbish...... Vibetrini put high criteria for that elite list.... I say Porto could scrape in to that list... and now everybody wanna open up de criteria and add all kinda fly by night club... just to say this one and dat one play for a top top top of de line club.....
Allyuh talk serious nah man.... what Rangers, Newcastle, and all these other clubs ever win.... at least Ranger does regularly win de scottish prem... Newcastle eh win ah trophy since high pants, leather ball and black and white TV.... get serious!
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This conversation is a waste of time if we are only considering teams like ManU, AC milan and Barcelona etc.. as BIG clubs. For argument's sake, let's limit the discussion to European teams There are only a dozen or so countries that have meaningful numbers of citizens (past and present) in these so-called BIG clubs. When you think of citizens of countries outside where these clubs are based, then it is only a handful. You are a top class professional if you are playing regularly for any team that is consistantly in the top flight of one of the major European leagues - Spain, Italy, Germany, England. Then add the top teams in other leagues such as Lyon, PSG, Marseille (France), Porto, Benfica and Sporting (Portugal), Ajax, Feyenord, PSV (Holland), Galatasaray, Fenerbace (Turkey) Rangers, Celtic (Scotland), Olimpiakos, Panathanaikos (Greece)..etc. If you've spent and time in Europe you will realize that these are all huge teams and the level of football and the week-in-week out pressure to succeed doemsticallya nd n Europe is unreal...
At their peaks, Dog, Shaka, Latapy & Yorke were/are all starters for teams pushing for honors in some of the top leagues in Europe as well as in the UEFA Cup and Champions' league. They should not be part of this discussion because they have essentially made it to the top of professional football. The fact is they are in the vast minority of professional footballers.
Now..to answer the question, in order of importance (in my opinion):
1) lack of quality
2) lack of discipline and drive
3) poor management/agents
4) work permit issues
5) lack of marketability/ exposure - hmm..I could get a Brazilian or a Trinidadian of the same talent for the same money ...who you think winning that battle...
6) discipline and drive
5) bias - the caribbean player has to fight the stereotype that he is skilful but lazy. As opposed to say an African player who is thought of as skilful but hungry
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Filho said it all. Talk done
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well said filho, yuh mash-up any further discussions..
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goals... yuh have to score golas in de big leagues..
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Big Club definition for this thread - A club that is well known around the globe for it's current exploits on and off the field, and one that continuously draws much international media attention.
Yorke played with ManU (one ah d biggest clubs in the world)
Latas played with Rangers and Porto (both of which are not major clubs currently based on the above definition and cannot rank with ManU and Madrid, etc in a present day scenario)
Other than that, everyone else seems to play for mediocre clubs
Wha Allyuh Think?
Porto could get een with ah umph.... They win Champions league last year man!!... they also win de old European Cup in 1988......
So ok beside Yorke and Latapy.... yes quality is de answer... have ah lil luck in it too....
but when yuh tell yuhself... 1.3 MM population.... we eh doing too bad yuh know
Leonce Lewis did well at porto aswell
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A few seasons ago an A-League coach had a choice between a Trinbagonian striker, and a kid out of a premiership team's system. Although he acknowledged that our striker was the better during the trial, he chose the English kid - his reason was that he was familiar with the training the English kid got, along with his preps etc, but was not sure what our player would bring to the team apart from ability. T&T is not considered by many football experts to be a "true" footballing nation - sad as it may seem.
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Leonce Lewis did well at porto aswell
Did what well at Porto ?
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Leonce Lewis did well at porto aswell
Did what well at Porto ?
I believe it was Academica he played with Latas.
Just look it up.
His best season goals wise was with Falguieras and medals wise was with Boavista.
http://www.socawarriors.net/past_&_retired_TT_players.htm
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Leonce Lewis did well at porto aswell
Did what well at Porto ?
I believe it was Academica he played with Latas.
Just look it up.
His best season goals wise was with Falguieras and medals wise was with Boavista.
http://www.socawarriors.net/past_&_retired_TT_players.htm
yeah he played at Academica with Latas.....
I eh know how Jeff come up wid Leo at Porto.....good imagination I guess.
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I doh mind if our players not at big clubs, but at least get into the big leagues. And stay there.
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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!
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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!
well said truetrini! ever since i small trinis have dis footballin mentality that "trinidad have world class ballers." What a myth! Other than Dwight Yorke we haven't produced anything substantial to talk about. FOOTBALL MINNOWS is what we are. Ask any regular avid football fan OUTSIDE OF TRINIDAD who Russell Latapy is; and watch them twist up dey face in utter confusion. The best we could do is chill we bill, learn as much as we can from Beenie and hope we can maybe produce something in the future. TTFF surely aint go be the ones helping we yutes develop! So we just hadda sit back and wait for another naturally gifted player of yorke calibre to be born. Until then, stop the "world class player" RUM TALK and wake up. We is the Minnows of this shit called world football....
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Big Club definition for this thread - A club that is well known around the globe for it's current exploits on and off the field, and one that continuously draws much international media attention.
Yorke played with ManU (one ah d biggest clubs in the world)
Latas played with Rangers and Porto (both of which are not major clubs currently based on the above definition and cannot rank with ManU and Madrid, etc in a present day scenario)
Other than that, everyone else seems to play for mediocre clubs
Wha Allyuh Think?
Porto could get een with ah umph.... They win Champions league last year man!!... they also win de old European Cup in 1988......
So ok beside Yorke and Latapy.... yes quality is de answer... have ah lil luck in it too....
but when yuh tell yuhself... 1.3 MM population.... we eh doing too bad yuh know
I say so too.
Porto and Rangers are world-class teams that will easily rank with Man U and Madrid, and de way Madrid doing these days yuh might want to reconsider them. :beermug:
Boss you mad Rangers ranking with Madrid and ManU??? What Rangers ever win? This is the first year Rangers make it into the next rounds of CL.
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People there is something else to consider,15 years a back a manager generally did not see Trinidad as a place to buy a player,just like 25 years ago Ghanaians were playing in the lower leagues of Germany,France etc much like our players in Britain now,look at African players on the whole today!they play for the big clubs but it took time,we like to walk before we creep!We will have a flow of players playing for bigger clubs but when we have more local players exposed to set say like Jabloteh and we have more local based getting capped things will change.Whitely and Jones anre to examples of signs of an improvement in player quality.
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People there is something else to consider,15 years a back a manager generally did not see Trinidad as a place to buy a player,just like 25 years ago Ghanaians were playing in the lower leagues of Germany,France etc much like our players in Britain now,look at African players on the whole today!they play for the big clubs but it took time,we like to walk before we creep!We will have a flow of players playing for bigger clubs but when we have more local players exposed to set say like Jabloteh and we have more local based getting capped things will change.Whitely and Jones anre to examples of signs of an improvement in player quality.
Breds the fact is we players were not good enough! Plain and simple. Most of our players in the UK struggle to start on their teams on a regular basis. and then remember they are cheaply bought "filler" players.
We don't do badly for a small country wit a small talent pool.
So let us enjoy our moment in the sun, staying grounded and hoing for continued success.
We should have been able to produce better players but the lack of interest by the TTFF in developing the standard of the game in T&T is to blame for that!
Look at Surinam and Guadaloupe and Martinique and the amount of good players that they farm out to France....! Soild youth programs.
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So if they are not good enough the clubs pay them salaries still even to just get cobo sweat because of their looks?We are too simplistic at times to say "dey ent good" sounds pretty daft to me.I remember in athletics when a US coach would never dream of giving an athlete ffrom the Caribbean a throwing scholarship,but now we see Jamaican,Trini ,Grenadian and Bahamian athletes on throwing schols not to big throwing programmes but smaller ones then bam after years Candice Scott leave Barataria and went to Florida Gators....big time throwing set up, why better training at youth levels and time eroding bias and mental blocks of these foreign coaches.
I remember when T&T defenders never got contracts,so according to you truetrini Brian Williams,Dexter Francis and Clayton Morris were not good enough,then Rougier went to Raith then Dog went on trial at Motherwell then ended up signing for Raith also now look at our back line?eventually one of our youth defenders will go directly to a bigger club as connections are made with local clubs.
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So if they are not good enough the clubs pay them salaries still even to just get cobo sweat because of their looks?We are too simplistic at times to say "dey ent good" sounds pretty daft to me.I remember in athletics when a US coach would never dream of giving an athlete ffrom the Caribbean a throwing scholarship,but now we see Jamaican,Trini ,Grenadian and Bahamian athletes on throwing schols not to big throwing programmes but smaller ones then bam after years Candice Scott leave Barataria and went to Florida Gators....big time throwing set up, why better training at youth levels and time eroding bias and mental blocks of these foreign coaches.
I remember when T&T defenders never got contracts,so according to you truetrini Brian Williams,Dexter Francis and Clayton Morris were not good enough,then Rougier went to Raith then Dog went on trial at Motherwell then ended up signing for Raith also now look at our back line?eventually one of our youth defenders will go directly to a bigger club as connections are made with local clubs.
Let em tell you what is daft! Your lack of comprehension!
The question is why our players doh get to play at BIGGER CLUBS!
Raith could hardly beat ah PFL side..if dey can at all!
Nad yes De, fellas could not play at NO Man U or Real Madrid etc!
NONE at dem especially pedestrian Brian Williams!
AND FUH YUH INFO athletes from T&T getting scholarships top de States fuh over 25 years!
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truetrini go in peace bredda,lawd fadda!
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truetrini go in peace bredda,lawd fadda!
at least yuh humble. LOL ;)
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2 words- work permits
Yes (especially as applies to England), but also some players just don't have the right attitude (as defined by the managers/organizations they are working under). I remember when Yorke first joined Villa and was riding bench behind Dean Saunders (a *much* lesser player), the coach was talking about Yorke's attitude and desire in training. Yorke made the adjustment and proved him wrong, and well... we know the end of that story.
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Newcastle is not a huge club like manboo, but then again not many are. I would have considered Newcastle a relatively big club with decent success before Souness days. I think they are as good as Rangers.
If you agree then add Neil Shaka Hislop to that list
You are right; Newcastle is not as big as the Mighty Reds, but a little perspective; Newcastle is a big club... in Geordie Land. Ask yourself, what trophies have Newcaastle actually won, and how often (even before Souey). They may be as good as Rangers in terms of ability (*maybe*) but not where it actually counts... winners medals.
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We have real talent here in Trinbago but our guys lack discipline
If our guys settle down and concentrate on the football rather than parting we could be big like or even bigger than brazil[/color]
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I don't really think that we have the quality. As someone just asked. apart from Latas and Yorke, which other person on present team do you think has the quality to play with a real top team.
And i don't want some people to say Hardest. as has also been said pretty good for a small population base.
And Rangers is no big team.
Dom Basil would have spanked you for such a stupid comment. Trini's are some of the most talented players we possess the quality. Change yuh name man, yuh have Dom turning in he grave
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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!
yes... but Pascal Cygan has a contract :devil: :rotfl:
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so does John O'Shea?
and yuh point is?
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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!
Ask any regular avid football fan OUTSIDE OF TRINIDAD who Russell Latapy is; and watch them twist up dey face in utter confusion....
I do NOT completely disagree with the point you trying to make, but your example kinda off partner. Latas may not be anywhere as popular as Yorke worldwide.....but de man is arguably more talented and by playing for Porto (won 2 league titles...plus a Cup title with Boavista) and Rangers, also made good use of his talent and he is better known than you give him credit for. I went business school with a man from Lisbon. His side was benfica...when he realize I was a Trini he as me if I know Latapy. He say Latas was real big in Portugal in his Porto days and as a Benfica man dey had to give him pong...but dey respek his ability
latas is also known in the UK...particularly Scotland. So much so, the man was even nominated for World Player of the year in 2001 by the Scottish rep
and he is very well known in our Concacaf region..even by the Yanks who old enough to rememeber Nov 19. I went on BigSoccer North America zone and was part of a debate aboput wh the best midfielder was in Concacaf over the past few decades and it was doing to Latas and Claudio Reyna. Imagine American posters was dissing otther Americans who consider reyna better than Latas...
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yeah Latas is ah big baller.
But I maintain dat apart from dem fellas, we players mediocre and cyar make de grade.
all kinda old talk about dicslipine etc...doh make sense.
Is lack ah skill at de highest level,,simple.
By de way. I did not say Latas wasnt ah big player dat was Sobriquet.
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so does John O'Shea?
and yuh point is?
thanks for ponting out John O'Shea; that's the point exatly. Sometimes it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract with a big club; case in point O'Shea, Winston Bogarde, Pascal Cygan etc...
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so does John O'Shea?
and yuh point is?
thanks for ponting out John O'Shea; that's the point exatly. Sometimes it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract with a big club; case in point O'Shea, Winston Bogarde, Pascal Cygan etc...
so which one ah we players should ah make ah BIG club?
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We have real talent here in Trinbago but our guys lack discipline
If our guys settle down and concentrate on the football rather than parting we could be big like or even bigger than brazil[/color]
NOT REALLY. What you fail to realize is that country's like Brazil and Argentina have the same problem with discipline. There are countless players in those countries who would be unbelievable that you will never hear of. We not special in that regard. In the end you have those that with persistance, talent and luck that make it. So the only realistic comparison is to look at the players that do come through and compare them to Brazil's...no comparison. Nothing to do with natural talent...but disciplne would not be enough to make up the difference at all
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I want all ah allyuh to take any T&T player on we national team and match dem up to any Brazilian past or present who make de Brazil National Team!
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so does John O'Shea?
and yuh point is?
thanks for ponting out John O'Shea; that's the point exatly. Sometimes it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract with a big club; case in point O'Shea, Winston Bogarde, Pascal Cygan etc...
so which one ah we players should ah make ah BIG club?
To give a short answer, if we consider talent alone, comparing players on the list above, we probably could have had some viable candidates, but I don't think it has to do with talent alone. People mention "Marvellous" Marvin Faustin, Marcelle etc., but as far as I am concerned, these players may have had talen, but other factors (discipline, attitude and others) militate against their success No one has a right to make a BIG club; you have to want it badly enough once you get the chance. Nothing new here, but...
To give a succinct answer to your question: no player SHOULD make it to a big club.
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so does John O'Shea?
and yuh point is?
thanks for ponting out John O'Shea; that's the point exatly. Sometimes it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract with a big club; case in point O'Shea, Winston Bogarde, Pascal Cygan etc...
Allyah really deluded yes. John O' Shea walking on Trinidad side anyday and looking like a general. And doh forget the man is only 24 years old and versatile. He is still the unfinished product. Fellas like Pascal Cygan and Bogarde did well in certain leagues and could not adapt to others.....dese fellas much better than you realize...you say that it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract....BUT you should also realize the opposite...some players fail under certain circumstances even though they are very talented
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Filiho I agree wholeheartedly! My point exactly. So if dat is true den my point is even more valid. The reason why T&T players eh make it to Big Clubs is cuz dey not facking goof enuff.
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so does John O'Shea?
and yuh point is?
thanks for ponting out John O'Shea; that's the point exatly. Sometimes it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract with a big club; case in point O'Shea, Winston Bogarde, Pascal Cygan etc...
Allyah really deluded yes. John O' Shea walking on Trinidad side anyday and looking like a general. And doh forget the man is only 24 years old and versatile. He is still the unfinished product. Fellas like Pascal Cygan and Bogarde did well in certain leagues and could not adapt to others.....dese fellas much better than you realize...you say that it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract....BUT you should also realize the opposite...some players fail under certain circumstances even though they are very talented
Yes Filho, but surely you realize that the actual names (O'Shea, Cygan) aren't that important; the principle remains the saame though; there are lesser players that play for so-called big clubs, the queston is: why some and not others. Don't get mired in the minutiae. :beermug:
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Filiho I agree wholeheartedly! My point exactly. So if dat is true den my point is even more valid. The reason why T&T players eh make it to Big Clubs is cuz dey not facking goof enuff.
Yes; but like everything else in life, there is more than one answer. In some cases (like England), work permit issues have bitten players in the ass. Talent is one aspect of the equation (and probably the most important one), but there are others.
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Filiho I agree wholeheartedly! My point exactly. So if dat is true den my point is even more valid. The reason why T&T players eh make it to Big Clubs is cuz dey not facking goof enuff.
Yes; but like everything else in life, there is more than one answer. In some cases (like England), work permit issues have bitten players in the ass. Talent is one aspect of the equation (and probably the most important one), but there are others.
Name one T&T player who was ever turned down for a work permit when picked up by a BIG club?
Let me help yuh...
NONE! Ziltch. zero.
see my point.
what bite dem is dat dey wasnt good enough.
Dat is not hating, we must appreciate we own but do so realistically.
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Filiho I agree wholeheartedly! My point exactly. So if dat is true den my point is even more valid. The reason why T&T players eh make it to Big Clubs is cuz dey not facking goof enuff.
Yes; but like everything else in life, there is more than one answer. In some cases (like England), work permit issues have bitten players in the ass. Talent is one aspect of the equation (and probably the most important one), but there are others.
Name one T&T player who was ever turned down for a work permit when picked up by a BIG club?
Let me help yuh...
NONE! Ziltch. zero.
see my point.
what bite dem is dat dey wasnt good enough.
Dat is not hating, we must appreciate we own but do so realistically.
Cool, I don't think that anyone could agree with your point, I tend to include in my definition of "not good enough" things like character and desire. Not to beat the point, but this is what I was trying to say about so-called lesser players succeeding where others fail. More than one solution/answer...
My two roubles.
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Filiho I agree wholeheartedly! My point exactly. So if dat is true den my point is even more valid. The reason why T&T players eh make it to Big Clubs is cuz dey not facking goof enuff.
Yes; but like everything else in life, there is more than one answer. In some cases (like England), work permit issues have bitten players in the ass. Talent is one aspect of the equation (and probably the most important one), but there are others.
Name one T&T player who was ever turned down for a work permit when picked up by a BIG club?
Let me help yuh...
NONE! Ziltch. zero.
see my point.
what bite dem is dat dey wasnt good enough.
Dat is not hating, we must appreciate we own but do so realistically.
Cool, I don't think that anyone could agree with your point, I tend to include in my definition of "not good enough" things like character and desire. Not to beat the point, but this is what I was trying to say about so-called lesser players succeeding where others fail. More than one solution/answer...
My two roubles.
I doh see why others will disagree with my point at all. but still spend yuh roubles however yuh want.
i do agree that good enough means skill = desire = hardwork = disclipine!
look at Yorke..he had the skills....but den he lapse off de field and it interfere wioth he on de field performance.
point taken.
still name one other dan he and latas who even get call to such heights and den dey fail because ah lack ah disclipine?
See my point?
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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!
Good Point deh! (erm..perhaps I hould prepare for a riot now? :nailbiting:)
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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!
Good Point deh!
anybody say shit?
why de f**k yuh come sliding in?
Haul yuh arse. dat is why man does call yuh troll...yuh modder ass.
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If Dwight was turned down for a work permit for Aston Villa what would have happened to his career?
The best chance our players have of being successful in football is to leave here at 16-17(if they good enuff at that point)......I believe that is what those youths we now hearing about in Holland and Spain did.
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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!
Good Point deh!
anybody say shit?
why de f**k yuh come sliding in?
Haul yuh arse. dat is why man does call yuh troll...yuh modder ass.
TrueTrini! You fell for the trap as expected! You too thin-skinned man.Wait, like you dont plan to send me the URL that I've been waiting on for the past week or suh :timeout:
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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!
Good Point deh!
anybody say shit?
why de f**k yuh come sliding in?
Haul yuh arse. dat is why man does call yuh troll...yuh modder ass.
The man that called me Trolle is the biggest Troll on the internet. They even banned him from Bigsoccer.com. And how come he hardly post here?
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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!
Good Point deh!
anybody say shit?
why de f**k yuh come sliding in?
Haul yuh arse. dat is why man does call yuh troll...yuh modder ass.
TrueTrini! You fell for the trap as expected! You too thin-skinned man.Wait, like you dont plan to send me the URL that I've been waiting on for the past week or suh :timeout:
again yuh lie! There was no trap!
You modified yuh post...yuh full ah shit and yuh does do anything tuh belittle T&T.
See yuh forget ah quote yuh..and den yuh went back and add shit.
RF. let em tell yuh something..yuh cyar make it like me....so go look fuh ah bajan bulgger or better yet ah Montego Bay buller and f**k off.
Yuh is ah damn liar!
And I was de first one to call yuh ah damn troll!
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RF why yuh come here trying to f**k up we vibes and troll fella?
Why yuh doh find ah sport yuh could participate in..try circle jocking!
get ah group ah yuh yardie frens and form ah circle an jock yuh wood!
steups.
it might have world cup in dat and den yuh could represent Yard.
ent?
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Big Club definition for this thread - A club that is well known around the globe for it's current exploits on and off the field, and one that continuously draws much international media attention.
Yorke played with ManU (one ah d biggest clubs in the world)
Latas played with Rangers and Porto (both of which are not major clubs currently based on the above definition and cannot rank with ManU and Madrid, etc in a present day scenario)
Other than that, everyone else seems to play for mediocre clubs
Wha Allyuh Think?
Other than Dwight do we have players who could or could have made these big teams? I can't think of any. Besides that our players are competing against a lot of other very skillful, talented, hungry folks.
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RF why yuh come here trying to f**k up we vibes and troll fella?
Why yuh doh find ah sport yuh could participate in..try circle jocking!
get ah group ah yuh yardie frens and form ah circle an jock yuh wood!
steups.
it might have world cup in dat and den yuh could represent Yard.
ent?
one word: THIN SKINNED! yuh like a old lady going through menopause. :-[
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simple and truthful answer...dey eh good enough!
Good Point deh!
anybody say shit?
why de f**k yuh come sliding in?
Haul yuh arse. dat is why man does call yuh troll...yuh modder ass.
TrueTrini! You fell for the trap as expected! You too thin-skinned man.Wait, like you dont plan to send me the URL that I've been waiting on for the past week or suh :timeout:
again yuh lie! There was no trap!
You modified yuh post...yuh full ah shit and yuh does do anything tuh belittle T&T.
See yuh forget ah quote yuh..and den yuh went back and add shit.
RF. let em tell yuh something..yuh cyar make it like me....so go look fuh ah bajan bulgger or better yet ah Montego Bay buller and f**k off.
Yuh is ah damn liar!
And I was de first one to call yuh ah damn troll!
the post was modified to correct a spelling error! Wait, what wrong with you today TrueTrini? What bothering you today? Why you so darn miserable man? BTW, have you booked your ticket for the family to Germany yet? or have you chnaged your mind?
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Clubs still don't have much respect for West indian players ah guess. Until we make a decent showing in a few WC. real hard for TT players.
ah think Dwight helped our cause with his exploits at Man U though. but we need to develop more quality players.
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I don't really think that we have the quality. As someone just asked. apart from Latas and Yorke, which other person on present team do you think has the quality to play with a real top team.
And i don't want some people to say Hardest. as has also been said pretty good for a small population base.
And Rangers is no big team.
Dom Basil would have spanked you for such a stupid comment. Trini's are some of the most talented players we possess the quality. Change yuh name man, yuh have Dom turning in he grave
Name dem present day players. Not men like Deleon and dem.
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Porto is a big club...just because portuguese league is not big right now does not diminish the tradition of the team. And they were big when Latas was there. If Bayer Leverkeusen is considerd a big club, as somebody who listed the g14 decide, then Porto has to be considered one. The main reason though is because big clubs are pressured into buying big name players...so our players have to make a name before they reach there. Latas and Andrews did that in their respective leagues and got picked up by big clubs in those respective leagues. Because they didn't start in England like Dwight, then the big club was relative to the league (Porto and Rangers). So basically, it's all about getting that first break early and then having a few years to adjust and then shine so by the time u r in your prime (27+) your name is already made so you get picked up by a big club then otherwise u become too old.
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I might be wrong but I get the impression that players at "big clubs" either:
1. come through the "big club's" youth system.
2. get scooped up from a club that is well networked in the same market (league for eg.) as the "big club"...either via scouting, or direct competition........after impressive performances
3. perform extraordinarily well for their "not-as-well-networked" team (outside of the market)in such a capacity so as to attract the attention of a big club.....
I think Trini players therefore depend most heavily on option 3............and because of the lack of strength of the network outside of the "big club" market- (PFL for example)...... to get the attention needed, it would take the sort of performances that none of our players are capable of.
Well said Kicker, very sensible... I think your point equates to PEDIGREE ...players coming up through a quality youth system establish their play and in turn a NAME for themselves .. which sets regions / players apart..
Of the current senior squad, based on what I have seen in the EPL; Jones and Edwards have the POTENTIAL to play Prem Football at one of the middle to bottom clubs (assuming the tops are L'pool, Chelsea, ManU, Arsenal and Spurs)
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I would add Whitley to the list of current players wit d ability to possibly play premership futbol. His age might be the only downside as far as teams see it. What i would really like to see is a trini playing in serie A... i think that go be real scene... i remember Juventus was scouting Yorke at a time dey.
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RF why yuh come here trying to f**k up we vibes and troll fella?
Why yuh doh find ah sport yuh could participate in..try circle jocking!
get ah group ah yuh yardie frens and form ah circle an jock yuh wood!
steups.
it might have world cup in dat and den yuh could represent Yard.
ent?
anyway... back to the regularly scheduled program... :) ;D
ignore RF, TT... trust me, doh get a heart attack
bless
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so does John O'Shea?
and yuh point is?
thanks for ponting out John O'Shea; that's the point exatly. Sometimes it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract with a big club; case in point O'Shea, Winston Bogarde, Pascal Cygan etc...
Allyah really deluded yes. John O' Shea walking on Trinidad side anyday and looking like a general. And doh forget the man is only 24 years old and versatile. He is still the unfinished product. Fellas like Pascal Cygan and Bogarde did well in certain leagues and could not adapt to others.....dese fellas much better than you realize...you say that it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract....BUT you should also realize the opposite...some players fail under certain circumstances even though they are very talented
Yes Filho, but surely you realize that the actual names (O'Shea, Cygan) aren't that important; the principle remains the saame though; there are lesser players that play for so-called big clubs, the queston is: why some and not others. Don't get mired in the minutiae. :beermug:
Breds...I used there names to make a point because they were mentioned earlier, but my reasoning was not based on just thosee 3 players. you did read my post right...here...look again at the end
Fellas like Pascal Cygan and Bogarde did well in certain leagues and could not adapt to others.....dese fellas much better than you realize...you say that it is not just talent that makes someone succeed or get a big contract....BUT you should also realize the opposite...some players fail under certain circumstances even though they are very talented
nobody getting caught up in the small things...but maybe if you did...you might have understood my point :beermug:
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Fellas, wanted to post ealier but just didn't get a chance.
About five years ago, I sat down with Cyrile Regis (former WBA, Aston Villa and England) while he was passing thru to Grenada. He played with Dwight while he was as Villa.
He said that everywhere he went in Trinidad everyone pointed out to him that Russell was a much better player that Dwight.
When I asked him his thoughts on that, he said that he had never seen Russell play, however, he said that it didn't underscore what Dwight had achieved in England.
The first thing Dwight had to do was to adapt to the playing conditions in England and to the fast-paced style of play. This didn't happen overnight and in fact it took a couple of years. Cyrile said that it was really no surprise Dwight excelled because he worked very, very hard on his fitness, his skills and his overall game. He was one of the more disciplined and dedicated youngsters on the field. Dwight was also fortunate that he was picked up at a very early age is his playing career to pursue professional football.
This is what I believe puts our players at a dis-advantage when they move to England and other countries. Pound for pound, we have naturally talented players that I believe may be better than most of the players in England. But they lack discipline, a hard work ethic and that little technical edge to take them over the top.
It also is a case of being in the right place at the right time.
It is a shame that we have very talented local footballers like Whitley who after playing in the WC should be picked up by an overseas club, but at age 27, how much can he really develop and show his class in a major foreign league.
Laters
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before the world cup guys were getting looks because of Dwight and Latas but now tht we made the world cup we get more exposure to the larger football audience so expect us to be getting more players with trials at ah younger age maybe in the late teens early twenties and all that dose not always have to be determined by how well we do on the far we go on the world stage but how well we play besides wins and losses.
Ricardo bless up!
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2 points to consider, (1) the lack of a really good domestic football league, and (2) not having appeared at a WC before.
If you consider Africa, the real influx of Africans into the bigger clubs really started after Cameroon made the splash in Italia 90. Then with consistent performances by African teams in successive WCs, Africa as a whole put itself on the football landscape.
De lack of consistent or successful WC appearances by English speaking Caribbean countries doesn't make noise for the region.
Also, if a scout has to take a look at a Trini, more than likely, he have to catch de man when Trini playing somebody, and how often do we play international games? And what if de man have an off-game on dat day? Where as if we had a quality league, he could catch a glimpse of de man on any given week, or even watch him during a practice session.