Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: KND on May 24, 2005, 12:29:55 PM
-
Anybody besides me belive that Jones best use for TnT is in Central Midfield.
The position he used to play for St Anthonys.
Jones skills is good Speed Good fight and Youth Drive.
This is what will help us in the middle of the park
His weakness is Ball touch, composure and keeping possesion with no support.
If you look at the games he plays forward for TnT, He is not performing up to par and is never likely to score goals.
Not because a man went on a goal scoring tear means he is a good forward.
But his performance hustling the defenders and Tackling defenders for TnT is what he does best.
Look at his performance last time in Mexico.
Just last year Rangers was signing him as a Sweeper and he was playing defense for TnT and W connection.
We need to Unlease Jones in the middle of the park he will bring the Davids/ Viera Midfielder that we need to put pressure in the middle.
Playing Jones as a forward is a waste of time.
Let me see how long it takes Beenhakker to realise that jones best position is midfield,
Cornell Glen, Scotland and Samuel can all give something more up front to go with Stern or even push Yorke back up and Put Jones in the middle.
-
SUPRISINGLY
i agree with knd here his deftness of touch and goal awareness just isnt there
can he score goals ?? yes
is he a striker??? nope
simple as that hope fully beene man put him some whree that his defensive capaabilities can come to the fore
he was playing defence for us before he went to england i believe
-
I agree with some aspects of the analysis of Jones, but not all. T&T teams from the late 80's to the present have all been notorious for selecting strikers based on touch, speed, name, and flair, ahead of finishing (hence our record over the years), with a very few exceptions. We need men who are greedy, goal hungry, finishers as well; is Jones such a player? Maybe, since the English football pundits think he is, and they have a little more football knowledge than us........(eg. of some hungry men overlooked over the years Marlon Morris, Collin Osborne, Timothy Haynes, etc.)
Regardless of if you agree with his English coaches, one thing is true, Jones has recently scored more than most of the others on the side, so I don't care if he have 15 toes, and could only play in ah pair ah Bata Bullets, we need goals and he scoring, so PUT HE UP-FRONT!
The likes of men like Ian Rush and Gary Lineka woulda never make a Trini side, thank God they were not Trinis.
-
Regardless of if you agree with his English coaches, one thing is true, Jones has recently scored more than most of the others on the side, so I don't care if he have 15 toes, and could only play in ah pair ah Bata Bullets, we need goals and he scoring, so PUT HE UP-FRONT!
how many goals has he scored for T&T??
-
if his weaknesses are ball touch, composure and keeping possession with support, then Mr. KND. he should be a crickerter and not a footballer, farless a mid field player.
steups.
-
how many goals has he scored for T&T??
He has not scored any goals fuh T&T, but den again he has only played 3 games as a striker. In those games we have only scored two goals (both of them deflections).
football365.com has listed him as Southampton's hope fuh de future.
Hope For The Future: Kenwyne Jones
Seven goals in seven games for Sheffield Wednesday on loan for the lanky Trinidad striker, who later went to Stoke and scored another three goals. Not given a look-in at the Saints (because they were doing so well, obviously), but if Crouch goes, you'd have to fancy him to get a better chance in the Championship along with fellow, erm, young gun Dexter Blackstock.
-
I agree wot some extent that Jones maybe better used in the middle......however KND the reason he's lacking for playing up from as u've listed is exactly what is required from someone playing in the middle of the field. Composure .....keeping possession is key trademarks of a midfielder. In case you not sure look at Latapy(just for comparison). Latas is the ideal midfielder.
I think however if Jones is fed the ball more hw will score. He's strong up front in the air and on the ball and he has the willingness to go at defenders. He has speed and he looks hungry. In the last game against Lima, he tracked back well to collect the ball in the middle and pushed forward to goal.
From the looks of things the middle in T&T looking real good so far. With Yorke, Theobald, Spann, Birchall, Tiger, Edwards, Whitley, Nakhid.......ah could afford to see Jones up front.
-
I agree with him in the middle because if he have the capablity to score he will from midfield
-
I think Jones can be effective as a defensive midfielder capable of scoring (i.e. Kerry Jamerson).
-
Yea Jones should be used as an attacking midfeild player, not as one of our fowards.!!!................. an where all dese pres men come from ras? :-\
-
................. an where all dese pres men come from ras? :-\
Pres men are wherever you go..just like Trinis. You can find a Trini in every country you visit, even in Madagascar.
-
For me, Jones is at best a full-back. I am yet to see the distinguishing characteristics of an attacking midfielder in him. He may also be a "battering" centre forward. :-\
-
Kenwyne Jones originally started playing as a striker for St. Anthony's and when he was on the 2001 U17 team he played forward for the nigerian coach. When Simoes arrived he played defence. After the world cup he was used as a utility player, but played in a more attackin midfield role for St. Anthony's. For W Connection he played wing back......In my opinion, d man is a utility player and can be used wherever on the field to suit the coach and the kind of players that the team has. He doesnt need to be used on the right side for TnT because d right side safe. Charles and Edwards safe. He doh really hav no experience playin midfield at this level. So playin him in d midfield in front of Birchall, Whitely, Nahkid, Dwarika, Theobald might cause problems, it too late to experiment with him there now. He has been playing up front in England and has been scoring, he extrememly dangerous on cross balls, has a wicked bullet, can hold up a ball well, defenders can't push him of the ball, can also run at defenders.........so as for right now in the campaign, I would leave him up front, but if Beenie Man sees it differently then so be it, he is the pro.
-
Based on my recollection, Kenwyne Jones started as a defender ofr St. Anthony's College. He then went on to play as a midfielder and forward for his school.
-
For me, Jones is at best a full-back. I am yet to see the distinguishing characteristics of an attacking midfielder in him. He may also be a "battering" centre forward. :-\
doc....what position the team u coaching is in in tobago..ah jus asking..ah want to see wah is your reasoning for saying KJ is better as a full back?
Be honest eh..lol
-
I think he'll make a good goalkeeper.....probably a good fast bowler too.... :-\
-
forget football...he shud go into the 50m freestyle...with that standing leap he go have a hell of a dive...be miles ahead before he hit the water :devil:
-
Regardless of if you agree with his English coaches, one thing is true, Jones has recently scored more than most of the others on the side, so I don't care if he have 15 toes, and could only play in ah pair ah Bata Bullets, we need goals and he scoring, so PUT HE UP-FRONT!
how many goals has he scored for T&T??
I will like tuh jump in here please sir, when we ask dat question, we have tuh understand it does take time tuh get tuh adjust from defender or midfielder, tuh just plain striker, especially at dat level. It is easy in we lil Sunday morning sweat in de park, but not at dat level. Personally as a striker, he should be judged from the world cup and especially from dis time onwards.Tuh me dat was ah transition time for him, is not like he was ah striker from day one of his career. We should monitor him closely, cuz despite what men may say, he doh have good first touch, he is not always aware of surroundings, etc, but guess what he playing against world class defenders and ruffing dem up and scoring some times 2. So at de end ah de day, we know he cud score goals at de top level, so when we need him fuh de WCQ, and he doh take care ah de business fuh T&T, den we cud get down on him. Fuh now let us leave de man alone nah, dat is just my lil opinion on de matter, tuh each his own of course. HIGHLY BLESSED.
-
Yeah. And who is going to give us that presence in the opposition's box against the opposing center back. If Kenwyn gets semi-decent delivery for TnT, imagine how he could trouble the best center backs in Concacaf, who might not even be as big as the typical center backs he faces week in week out in the EPL. Why put him in the middle, and waste that fear we could inject in the opposing defence?
-
I think he'll make a good goalkeeper.....probably a good fast bowler too.... :-\
Hahahahaha :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: oui ah weak..... allyuh good yes :rotfl: :rotfl:
-
Jones, to me has never been a natural striker. I always wanted him to play DM. Be that as it may Jones is now a striker. He has said that he wants to be a striker and has been used primarily as a striker with all of his British clubs.
-
Mad people on this board lol.......when it is people go learn that you dont have to have the best touch to be an extremely effective player....His touch is good enough it can always get better tho the kind of pressre and chances his presence and leaping ability creates is significant and we want to put him in midfield? If his touch isnt that good then why would you wanna out him in the position where your touch and control is the key.....You need KJ up top now the key is to get someone to dovetail with him efficiently like a runner who can work off him ...(like cornell glenn)...I'm still opeful of whitley getting back in form I really like to see him hold that middle ....I doh think yorke can keep the pace anymore but if Im wrong ill gladly eat my words on that one. The point is if it aint broke then dont try to fix it ...sunderland playing a four five one....kenwyn taking that workload by himself with means his level of fitness is superior and we wanna stuff that pace and power in the midfield allyuh must be mad......beenie predict it and he coming of age now
-
I think he'll make a good goalkeeper.....probably a good fast bowler too.... :-\
Oh shit, de first time ah was on de thread, ah did miss yuh post yes. Well it eh 2 late tuh roll nah, yuh is ah real clown sah :rotfl:. HIGHLY BLESSED.
-
Waz dis talk about Kenwyne have poor first touch?
Alya mad ah wa!
He now gettin accustom to settlin into a position(striker) professionally as opposed to his earlier development...he dominatin' teams in d premiership....takin down long ball wit he chest and thigh at will for himself and for others to run off....dominatin' d aerial battles in d box against premiership defenders.. scorin goals consistently wit his head..scorin wit shot outside d box after turnin man....
and ya want to put him as a defensive midfielder?
d man now developin to be one of the better premiership prospects as a striker and you want him play midfield?
-
triniwings check the date of those posts calling for him to be a midfielder...this is an old thread dat had been resurrected
-
Men takin chain up regular dese days sah.... ;D
-
SUPRISINGLY
i agree with knd here his deftness of touch and goal awareness just isnt there
can he score goals ?? yes
is he a striker??? nope
simple as that hope fully beene man put him some whree that his defensive capaabilities can come to the fore
he was playing defence for us before he went to england i believe
Allyuh in ah mess...lol The man is clearly a top quality in-form striker. I think he can fall into many different positions and perform well. To say he is not a striker is pure madness.
-
SUPRISINGLY
i agree with knd here his deftness of touch and goal awareness just isnt there
can he score goals ?? yes
is he a striker??? nope
simple as that hope fully beene man put him some whree that his defensive capaabilities can come to the fore
he was playing defence for us before he went to england i believe
Allyuh in ah mess...lol The man is clearly a top quality in-form striker. I think he can fall into many different positions and perform well. To say he is not a striker is pure madness.
Another one bites de dust. Yuh mean to say dat even after palos and NYtriniwhiteboy post yuh still eh realise yuh was answering a 2 1/2 year old post??
-
dis thread get brought back to life, all de way from May 24, 2005 :devil:
I din kno allya does wuk Obeah ;D
-
Funny thing is this was not such a ridicuplous idea 2 and a half years ago for TnT.
Just goes to show how quickly things can change.
-
Ah guess allyuh know better than roy keane, goerge burley and leo beenhakker put together,even the black cats boss by paying 6 mill for a midfeilder with a elephant first touch. the man just developed into a terrific striker that's all, such is football. now if yuh say daryrl roberts is a mid feilder at best then i will opt to agree, but not kenwyne, the man is ah natrual born scorer, nigel fabien was smack on the money, great assestment with rush and lineka, that's so true. positive.
-
I think he'll make a good goalkeeper.....probably a good fast bowler too.... :-\
good one :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
ah just finish post in another Kenwyne Jones thread. so ah won't repeat mehself. my penny? just leave de man where he is nah, and let dem concacaf teams/defenders know what it feels like to have a big strong forward winning every head ball and chesting/laying balls off to supporting teamates.
-
Allyuh in ah mess...lol The man is clearly a top quality in-form striker. I think he can fall into many different positions and perform well. To say he is not a striker is pure madness.
Boss yuh embarassin the Fatima multitudes in here.
Just call yuhself arima.
-
how many goals has he scored for T&T??
He has not scored any goals fuh T&T, but den again he has only played 3 games as a striker. In those games we have only scored two goals (both of them deflections).
football365.com has listed him as Southampton's hope fuh de future.
Hope For The Future: Kenwyne Jones
Seven goals in seven games for Sheffield Wednesday on loan for the lanky Trinidad striker, who later went to Stoke and scored another three goals. Not given a look-in at the Saints (because they were doing so well, obviously), but if Crouch goes, you'd have to fancy him to get a better chance in the Championship along with fellow, erm, young gun Dexter Blackstock.
didnt jones score the freekick against peru, when we drew 1-1?
-
how many goals has he scored for T&T??
He has not scored any goals fuh T&T, but den again he has only played 3 games as a striker. In those games we have only scored two goals (both of them deflections).
football365.com has listed him as Southampton's hope fuh de future.
Hope For The Future: Kenwyne Jones
Seven goals in seven games for Sheffield Wednesday on loan for the lanky Trinidad striker, who later went to Stoke and scored another three goals. Not given a look-in at the Saints (because they were doing so well, obviously), but if Crouch goes, you'd have to fancy him to get a better chance in the Championship along with fellow, erm, young gun Dexter Blackstock.
didnt jones score the freekick against peru, when we drew 1-1?
Yeah man
-
how many goals has he scored for T&T??
He has not scored any goals fuh T&T, but den again he has only played 3 games as a striker. In those games we have only scored two goals (both of them deflections).
football365.com has listed him as Southampton's hope fuh de future.
Hope For The Future: Kenwyne Jones
Seven goals in seven games for Sheffield Wednesday on loan for the lanky Trinidad striker, who later went to Stoke and scored another three goals. Not given a look-in at the Saints (because they were doing so well, obviously), but if Crouch goes, you'd have to fancy him to get a better chance in the Championship along with fellow, erm, young gun Dexter Blackstock.
didnt jones score the freekick against peru, when we drew 1-1?
At the time I made that statement, he had not yet scored for T&T. Since then he has scored 3 goals, against Bermuda, Peru and Panama.
-
Regardless of if you agree with his English coaches, one thing is true, Jones has recently scored more than most of the others on the side, so I don't care if he have 15 toes, and could only play in ah pair ah Bata Bullets, we need goals and he scoring, so PUT HE UP-FRONT!
how many goals has he scored for T&T??
You missing the point. His development as a player and striker in the EPL under the harshest of oppositions is going to do him wonders. Already you could see he has added some bulk to his frame which makes him quite intimidating. Look at Crouch with his lingay self is unhinge defenses when he ready and he ain't half as skillful or fast as Jonsey. In Concacaf Jones is going to be a force to reckon with as long as he approach TNT games with as much fervor and hunger. I am of the opinion that with the range of strikers we have now, there is no need for us to go into games playing 4-5-1 and
with other midifielders like Birchie, Bleeder, Carlos to name a few we should be able to do some real damage out there
-
Our only problem is we have too much strikers (Berris...tell Stern let the youths and them get a chance, nah man) so we need Kenwyne more in the midfield that up front.
But...the man is easily our best striker if he up top cause unlike everybody else (except Sealy) the man usually make the keeper save at least when he get his chance, he doh blast it wide or miskick or overdribble.
I cah wait to see the real national team again...i looking for a 4-3-3 that ManU and Chelsea playing with Scotty/Samuel/Glen on the left and Carlos on the right with Kenwyne through the middle as the target man, with Roberts and Sealy on the bench as alternatives.
Birchall, Spann and a true, hard tackling midfielder as the 3 men in the middle. All Spann and Birchall hadda do is hustle ppl and collect the ball when the DM tackle and then lay it off to the wide men and then get by the box to look for the rebound once the cross come in. Either Jones will get the header or lay it back for one of them to bus the bullet, or they will be there to hustle and collect when the opposing team head the cross out.
It sounds so simple, sigh...
-
Allyuh in ah mess...lol The man is clearly a top quality in-form striker. I think he can fall into many different positions and perform well. To say he is not a striker is pure madness.
Boss yuh embarassin the Fatima multitudes in here.
Just call yuhself arima.
lol.. boy, I jus read the initial post and respond to it without scrolling down or reading the date. Then I realize is chain up ting when it was too late...lol. :-[ ;D
-
yeh....i colleck a shimmy too....
alya put dead post to rest in peace nah!
hehe
-
Hope the man who make dis thread bitting he words :devil:
-
People not seeing the real issue here:
Can Kenwyne Jones play as a striker for Trinidad and Tobago and be as successful?
The position Kenwyne is playing now is the one striker role. This is a much different role to the twin strikers that we usually play in the 4-4-2 formation. The one striker role needs the following to fourish:
1) Good direct service from the defenders on the chest, directly to feet, or to head for a flick on;
2) Midfielders that are fit and aware enough to quickly support the sole striker in both defensive and attacking positions ; and
3) Enough movement from the midfielders to keep the defense honest so that the single striker does not find himself marked by two defenders at every turn.
Does the Trinidad and Tobago team fit this bill? I don't think so.
1) Our defenders can barely make a decent 40 yard pass into the channels farless put it on a striker's chest, to his feet, or for a flick on;
2) How quickly will our midfielders provide support for a single striker? Even Stern who (for all his ills)has really mastered the art of screening and holding up the play often got frustrated at the lack of support from the midfielders.
3) Have most of our players learnt that the game is played most effectively without the ball yet? I'm not too sure about that.
How will Kenwyne look in a 4-4-2? And for all his prowess heading the ball, who do we have that can bring in decent crosses? Not even Carlos can claim that.
-
he is still a better midfielder than forward in my opinion,
Not because he does good as a forward means he would not have done good as a midfielder.
-
Jahyouth, thks for taking the time to type it out
plus I am of the opinion, if we have other in form strikers who may not be able to contribute as midfielders, rather than place dem on the bench, find a use for everyone.
-
People not seeing the real issue here:
Can Kenwyne Jones play as a striker for Trinidad and Tobago and be as successful?
The position Kenwyne is playing now is the one striker role. This is a much different role to the twin strikers that we usually play in the 4-4-2 formation. The one striker role needs the following to fourish:
1) Good direct service from the defenders on the chest, directly to feet, or to head for a flick on;
2) Midfielders that are fit and aware enough to quickly support the sole striker in both defensive and attacking positions ; and
3) Enough movement from the midfielders to keep the defense honest so that the single striker does not find himself marked by two defenders at every turn.
Does the Trinidad and Tobago team fit this bill? I don't think so.
1) Our defenders can barely make a decent 40 yard pass into the channels farless put it on a striker's chest, to his feet, or for a flick on;
2) How quickly will our midfielders provide support for a single striker? Even Stern who (for all his ills)has really mastered the art of screening and holding up the play often got frustrated at the lack of support from the midfielders.
3) Have most of our players learnt that the game is played most effectively without the ball yet? I'm not too sure about that.
How will Kenwyne look in a 4-4-2? And for all his prowess heading the ball, who do we have that can bring in decent crosses? Not even Carlos can claim that.
Jones can play up front or in the midfield. He could probably still play in the back too. I prefer him up front but he'll play for T&T wherever the coach needs him most. but Jah..he versatile man. He's played well in different systems and was really good last year for Southhampton in a 4-4-2. Even for T&T he's played well ina 4-4-2. Look at his WC qualifier appearances under Beenhaker (mostly as a sub..but he was good against Bahrain in the 2nd leg from the start) and against England and Paraguay in the WC. He even started to score some goals for T&T (against Peru and Panama and during a few preWc friendlies). He doesn't need the ball on his head to score and is strong with either foot (case in point: his first goal for Sunderland this season). He's also young and improving. Hopefully KJ will keep up his progress. He is a potential star..And it's our good fortune that he can play in a variety of positions..
also..not sure why you don't think T&T can play a 4-5-1. beenhaker employed it a lot leading up to the WC. We beat Mexico paying a 4-5-1 in the final regular qualifier and we tied Sweden in Wc 2006 starting off with a 4-5-1..just to mention a couple. Dunno if that is something we will see a lot of in the future, but there are different ways to employ a lone striker. ManU did it with Ruud for example and they weren't launching balls at his head all day...I think u gave a somewhat limited view of the ways you can employ a lone striker in a 4-5-1
-
We can play a 4-5-1 now and play it well. I think Jahyouth getting a little bit mixed up, being the lone striker doesn't mean that the ball is played 40 yards from the defense onto the forward. It means that the transition from defense to offense is more fluid and relies on maintaining possession. It requires that Jones, who is becoming fully competent, is able to hold the ball long enough in order to bring numbers into the attack.
-
he is still a better midfielder than forward in my opinion,
Based on what??
-
Anybody besides me belive that Jones best use for TnT is in Central Midfield.
The position he used to play for St Anthonys.
Jones skills is good Speed Good fight and Youth Drive.
This is what will help us in the middle of the park
His weakness is Ball touch, composure and keeping possesion with no support.
If you look at the games he plays forward for TnT, He is not performing up to par and is never likely to score goals.
Not because a man went on a goal scoring tear means he is a good forward.
But his performance hustling the defenders and Tackling defenders for TnT is what he does best.
Look at his performance last time in Mexico.
Just last year Rangers was signing him as a Sweeper and he was playing defense for TnT and W connection.
We need to Unlease Jones in the middle of the park he will bring the Davids/ Viera Midfielder that we need to put pressure in the middle.
Playing Jones as a forward is a waste of time.
Let me see how long it takes Beenhakker to realise that jones best position is midfield,
Cornell Glen, Scotland and Samuel can all give something more up front to go with Stern or even push Yorke back up and Put Jones in the middle.
no way he plays out of striker. He puts balls in the back of the net. end of.
-
This argument is totally inane...to talk about where Jones played when he was in high school bears no relevance absolutely none. If you'll remember Beckenbauer started off as a forward, then played mid-field and ended up as sweeper and this was during his professional career.
-
Filho yout thoughts please...
Hypo-tottot-sizin
If Stern , Sealy and Jones hot..an Scotland gone cold....would you still play a 4-5-1...who would be yuh 1 ? ...I know it may depend on who in yuh 5 ...buh yuh doh think it's best we play all 3, buh ah doh think we could yet go with ah 4-4-3, buh wha bout ah 4-3-1-2...and who most likely will be that best 1 ?
ah mean is true when the time comes, eveybody mite be ketchin dey nen-nen eh....an we have to pick, well ah doh wha call names and embarass nobody....buh for ole-talk sake, "in ah perfect whirl"
-
We can play a 4-5-1 now and play it well. I think Jahyouth getting a little bit mixed up, being the lone striker doesn't mean that the ball is played 40 yards from the defense onto the forward. It means that the transition from defense to offense is more fluid and relies on maintaining possession. It requires that Jones, who is becoming fully competent, is able to hold the ball long enough in order to bring numbers into the attack.
Not getting mixed up at all.
Being the lone striker doesn't mean that the ball is played into the top from the defenders all the time, but it relies on the fact that this can be done with consistency and accuracy. If the defenders cannot do this it allows the other team to exert high presure on your midfielders leading to turnovers and counter attacks. Why? The long ball in a single striker formation is a release valve which allows the team to attack as a unit. Without the long ball, the formation is very tight and compact, and in my opinion we doh have the requisite skill to play where space is very limited.
-
he is still a better midfielder than forward in my opinion,
Based on what??
The Thing people need to remember is that KJ playing midfield in the context or Playing for Trinidad and Tobago.
Based on his abilities and strength and the rest of players available he would be a better asset to Trinidad in Midfield.
When I look at kenwayne strength I look at speed strength, Heading and Shooting. Close touches dribbling and one touch finishing I would not consider him as strong.
In our central midfield we have no players that bring ball winning to the table, in the world cup we had Whitley but I do not think he can get it done in 2010, Birchal is not a ball winner and his speed is just not there.
Local players such as Trent Noel will probably not be able to get to the level,
When you look up front we have a few options
we still have scotland, Samuel can also play offensive. hector Sam has been playing in foreign for a long time now and has experience, Glasglow and Sealey, Not to mention any up and coming like Bartolemew and Stern John will also be present.
Up front we have options.
By putting Jones in Midfield we can get him more involved and be central to the game, he will still score goals because he has an outside shot and he will be in the same position as a midfield as he would a forward for dead balls corner free kick etc.
Putting him in forward is a waste especially when we play the likes of USA and Mexico because he would just be ball watching whole day as we will have very little ball possesion. Just fighting for long ball and hoping to get a counter goal.
better to put a man like stern up front because you know he walking any way and drop KJ back in midfield and get him involved in the match.
This is the same reason Bertile put Yorke in midfield at the start of the Hex last time around you need your best players to be involved in the game.
It made sense two years ago when this was written and it makes sense now because frankly TnT side has not improved in the last 2 years. We are essentially the same and maybe a little worst since the blacklist
-
KND
I understand your argument much better now but as a young player who isn't fully developed yet I don't think it would be fair to put in in that position. Yorke could have done it because he had the experience under his belt....
-
Not getting mixed up at all.
Being the lone striker doesn't mean that the ball is played into the top from the defenders all the time, but it relies on the fact that this can be done with consistency and accuracy. If the defenders cannot do this it allows the other team to exert high presure on your midfielders leading to turnovers and counter attacks. Why? The long ball in a single striker formation is a release valve which allows the team to attack as a unit. Without the long ball, the formation is very tight and compact, and in my opinion we doh have the requisite skill to play where space is very limited.
But playing over the top means that the forward encounters a 1v2 or 1 v 3 position and at the highest level that's a losing proposition for the forward so that it should not be done. With 5 in the middle it means that when the forward receives the ball he holds it long enough only to play it back and ideally it would be to the holding midfielder who, when he receives the ball is able to play it to other midfielders who have now moved into the attack. And you're right with five in the middle the idea is to remain compact defensively in the middle third.
-
His weakness is Ball touch, composure and keeping possesion with no support Those are key ingredients to becoming a sucessfull midfielder. The intercol game and top flight especially international is hole different game all together he is looking more and more like a foward to me........................................................................football is more a kick in the grass its life
-
Filho yout thoughts please...
Hypo-tottot-sizin
If Stern , Sealy and Jones hot..an Scotland gone cold....would you still play a 4-5-1...who would be yuh 1 ? ...I know it may depend on who in yuh 5 ...buh yuh doh think it's best we play all 3, buh ah doh think we could yet go with ah 4-4-3, buh wha bout ah 4-3-1-2...and who most likely will be that best 1 ?
ah mean is true when the time comes, eveybody mite be ketchin dey nen-nen eh....an we have to pick, well ah doh wha call names and embarass nobody....buh for ole-talk sake, "in ah perfect whirl"
against tough opposition like Mexico, US, Costa Rica...especially on the road..I would probably stick with 5 across the middle with either Jones or Stern up top depending on who playing the better club ball at the time. Right now I giving Jones the edge..but as you can see..Sten still bussin de net and I have no doubt he coulda score some goals for Sunderland this season. The other strikers we have seem more like they would need a partner up top. I think KJ and Stern are the only ones I could see playing a lone role up top.
If we play a 4-4-2, I will start with KJ and Stern up top. My first striker off the bench is Cornell. Sealy is number 2. I would play Darryl in the midfield. In a 4-5-1 if Stern real hot, I might even push KJ in a midfield role too so as not to waste him on the bench and use his versatility.
-
Filho yout thoughts please...
Hypo-tottot-sizin
If Stern , Sealy and Jones hot..an Scotland gone cold....would you still play a 4-5-1...who would be yuh 1 ? ...I know it may depend on who in yuh 5 ...buh yuh doh think it's best we play all 3, buh ah doh think we could yet go with ah 4-4-3, buh wha bout ah 4-3-1-2...and who most likely will be that best 1 ?
ah mean is true when the time comes, eveybody mite be ketchin dey nen-nen eh....an we have to pick, well ah doh wha call names and embarass nobody....buh for ole-talk sake, "in ah perfect whirl"
Maxg De only way we cud play ah 4-4-3 is if we eh use ah keeper or play wid 12 man. ;D ..ah like yuh thinking though ;)
-
Filho yout thoughts please...
Hypo-tottot-sizin
If Stern , Sealy and Jones hot..an Scotland gone cold....would you still play a 4-5-1...who would be yuh 1 ? ...I know it may depend on who in yuh 5 ...buh yuh doh think it's best we play all 3, buh ah doh think we could yet go with ah 4-4-3, buh wha bout ah 4-3-1-2...and who most likely will be that best 1 ?
ah mean is true when the time comes, eveybody mite be ketchin dey nen-nen eh....an we have to pick, well ah doh wha call names and embarass nobody....buh for ole-talk sake, "in ah perfect whirl"
against tough opposition like Mexico, US, Costa Rica...especially on the road..I would probably stick with 5 across the middle with either Jones or Stern up top depending on who playing the better club ball at the time. Right now I giving Jones the edge..but as you can see..Sten still bussin de net and I have no doubt he coulda score some goals for Sunderland this season. The other strikers we have seem more like they would need a partner up top. I think KJ and Stern are the only ones I could see playing a lone role up top.
If we play a 4-4-2, I will start with KJ and Stern up top. My first striker off the bench is Cornell. Sealy is number 2. I would play Darryl in the midfield. In a 4-5-1 if Stern real hot, I might even push KJ in a midfield role too so as not to waste him on the bench and use his versatility.
thks for the response Filho, is dat self ah mean, ah doh want to leave no hot player on the bench, so even if Jones is hottest, ah might go with ah 2nd best forward, to use use him in ah 5 man mid, of course he would be the most attacking mid...cause ah not sure of the capability of anyone else to play that transition..defensive mid to attacking mid...yet if he might have any more experience than anyone else is in that role....hope there is pastel and sorrell in we football future, buh many ppl still only have salt products to live with...specially with Nuts-characters runnin we TTFF...at least we have a choice with ah nutsman..
add: Berris yuh never know, we new boys defence might stand stronger than ever..all doh ah see El Salavador crack dem ah few times, ah cyah help feeling the youths starting to get the plot.
-
i have watched him time and time again, playing for sucksland and for trini and he seems lost playing the striker role. to me he is a player without a true position. in england he is used as a striker because of his size and his ability to head the ball but he does not look comfortable playing in that position. he certainly lacks confidence going forward, he cannot dribble, he shuns his responsibility as he attemps to pass the ball away in the 18 yard box and he lacks the deft touches. i wish the youth the best but what is his best position to achieve greatness.
for trini i would go with glenn and scotland, they are both out and out strikers whick kenwyn isn't. not because he is in the EPL means he is trinidad's best striker and the first striker to be picked.
-
i have watched him time and time again, playing for sucksland and for trini and he seems lost playing the striker role. to me he is a player without a true position. in england he is used as a striker because of his size and his ability to head the ball but he does not look comfortable playing in that position. he certainly lacks confidence going forward, he cannot dribble, he shuns his responsibility as he attemps to pass the ball away in the 18 yard box and he lacks the deft touches. i wish the youth the best but what is his best position to achieve greatness.
for trini i would go with glenn and scotland, they are both out and out strikers whick kenwyn isn't. not because he is in the EPL means he is trinidad's best striker and the first striker to be picked.
ATB, dude im not jokin and it's not what i'm smokin but I really think your mad. :devil: :devil:
-
i have watched him time and time again, playing for sucksland and for trini and he seems lost playing the striker role. to me he is a player without a true position. in england he is used as a striker because of his size and his ability to head the ball but he does not look comfortable playing in that position. he certainly lacks confidence going forward, he cannot dribble, he shuns his responsibility as he attemps to pass the ball away in the 18 yard box and he lacks the deft touches. i wish the youth the best but what is his best position to achieve greatness.
for trini i would go with glenn and scotland, they are both out and out strikers whick kenwyn isn't. not because he is in the EPL means he is trinidad's best striker and the first striker to be picked.
I think part of what you say is true. He does lack confidence and that killer instinct that the great strikers have. I think KJ has the tools to be a very good striker. Not a great striker but a very good one. He has size, skill and decent pace. But all that is worthless until he develops that attacking attitude. I think his knee injury is partly to blame as well as the poor quality of service that he receives. Most times when he receives the ball his back is to goal and he has at least two defenders on him.
-
Listen I like Kenwyn but I have to agree with Anton ..it's like he's lost something going forward ...indecisive moving forward not sure what he gonna do.... his touch is poor as well .....during the world cup Kenwyn would work his ass off ...now he just wanna post up ad touch it back ..... to me he have to do better ...I'm not impressed..... I would go with Scotty and Glen and see what transpires .....
-
After seeing him against El Salvador I started having doubts and felt that Glen and Scotland or Scotland and John should be our first choices.He does not put himself about,Scotland must always be our first choice.
-
allyuh right yes
-
Nah, man. Kenwyne reach. Drop Stern, ent?
-
i have watched him time and time again, playing for sucksland and for trini and he seems lost playing the striker role. to me he is a player without a true position. in england he is used as a striker because of his size and his ability to head the ball but he does not look comfortable playing in that position. he certainly lacks confidence going forward, he cannot dribble, he shuns his responsibility as he attemps to pass the ball away in the 18 yard box and he lacks the deft touches. i wish the youth the best but what is his best position to achieve greatness.
for trini i would go with glenn and scotland, they are both out and out strikers whick kenwyn isn't. not because he is in the EPL means he is trinidad's best striker and the first striker to be picked.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/strenkt/GAWD.jpg)
Good God ATB, you're an idiot!!!
-
i have watched him time and time again, playing for sucksland and for trini and he seems lost playing the striker role. to me he is a player without a true position. in england he is used as a striker because of his size and his ability to head the ball but he does not look comfortable playing in that position. he certainly lacks confidence going forward, he cannot dribble, he shuns his responsibility as he attemps to pass the ball away in the 18 yard box and he lacks the deft touches. i wish the youth the best but what is his best position to achieve greatness.
for trini i would go with glenn and scotland, they are both out and out strikers whick kenwyn isn't. not because he is in the EPL means he is trinidad's best striker and the first striker to be picked.
altho a bit harsh, there is some truth to what is said here...I have said time and again KJ is incomplete as a striker simply because it was not his true position but a position his has been pushed into because of his attributes that suggest he could be a good striker..but trinis see him as our most successful prem player at the moment so saying he's not the best thing since slice bread is like blasphemy to some..
-
Jones was used primarily as a defender and midfielder while in T&T. He has been playing at striker for about four years now. In my view he is not a natural striker. But he has made great steps in learning his new trade. 7 to 10 Premiership goals a year at a club without much quality behind him eh bad. Furthermore a lot of big clubs wanted him. I don't think they were going to put him in midfield.
For the record I think Stern John and Scotty have better technique and instincts than him. Jones is is still young and barring injury has at least 10 years in him. Neither of those men could compare with Jones athletically. Over time he will learn the finer points so we definitely haven't seen his best yet.
-
I was thinking the same ting. I really do believe that KJ should be used in the midfield as a tryout because of Yorke and Brichall absence for the next game. He could play in the mid-field because he has the ability to defend and distribute. Another reason why we should drop him back I believe, is because we are not blessed with the type of players that can service him at forward to maximize his scoring abilities for country.
-
you can teach touch and movement and passing....but you cant teach instincts and thats the biggest weapon a striker must posses to be successful for the long term. Jones lacks the instincts but when he plays hard up front it makes his job as a striker easier on him. he has to redefine himself as a striker since he does not have those instincts. if he is just posting up and looking lazy and not making penetrating runs off the ball and taking shots at goal on a regular basis he wont develop into the striker he wants to be. :beermug:
-
if he is just posting up and looking lazy and not making penetrating runs off the ball
as compared to who, Stern???
-
With the influx of players and managers from other leagues, the style of the English game, at least at the club level has changed significantly. Players like Jones etc will have to work even harder now to score in environments where teams are playing the ball more on teh carpet than they are relying on aerial dominance. Clubs like Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool etc all play a style of football that rely less on big players and aerial dominance in attack.
Adebayor stands over 6ft 4, yet he rarely scores headed goals.
There are quite a few teams in the Premiership that plays the old style long ball, areial game which benefits players like Jones. Sunderland comes accross as one of those teams. Bolton and Wigan are other examples. These are typically the side that have a predominantly large pool of English players (playesr who have not played in other leauges outside England). And 80% of the teams in the championship didvision play this type of game as well.
-
Listen I like Kenwyn but I have to agree with Anton ..it's like he's lost something going forward ...indecisive moving forward not sure what he gonna do.... his touch is poor as well .....during the world cup Kenwyn would work his ass off ...now he just wanna post up ad touch it back ..... to me he have to do better ...I'm not impressed..... I would go with Scotty and Glen and see what transpires .....
Even when he has opportunities in front goal in the 18 yard he would pass off to others. A striker must shoot first most of the times! He needs to be taught, to become more selfish. He’s rarely takes on defenders one on one, correct me if I’m wrong, which is another skill of a true striker. He has alot to learn at his young age. He would better learn these qualities playing at his club.
-
i have watched him time and time again, playing for sucksland and for trini and he seems lost playing the striker role. to me he is a player without a true position. in england he is used as a striker because of his size and his ability to head the ball but he does not look comfortable playing in that position. he certainly lacks confidence going forward, he cannot dribble, he shuns his responsibility as he attemps to pass the ball away in the 18 yard box and he lacks the deft touches. i wish the youth the best but what is his best position to achieve greatness.
for trini i would go with glenn and scotland, they are both out and out strikers whick kenwyn isn't. not because he is in the EPL means he is trinidad's best striker and the first striker to be picked.
He's not the most versatile striker, and doesn't have the complete set of attacking tools. He has his strengths and his weaknesses. When the game plays to his strengths he impresses... When it doesn't, the areas for improvement are glaring. All we could do is hope that he continues to improve. I think if he'd put away the chance against l'pool... and they were able to hold on and get something out of the game, this post wouldn't exist....so go figure.
-
Jones as a midfield would make sense judging by some of the points read; but Sunderland is his payroll, and if they aren't impressed by what T&T is doing with the guy don't be surprised if you see less appearances by him, or benched , or only playing limited minutes.
With the importance of WCQ, we need to play our players the best way that they can play for TNT. IMHO Jones is not producing what we expect. We've put him on a pedestal because he is viewed as a threat in the EPL, but he hasn't earned that title yet for country. He's capable of it and the T&T coaching staff needs to really figure out how to use his talent to benefit us, rather than just throwing him on the field.
-
as compared to who, Stern???
Your mind always on Stern eh :)
After all the talk about strikers done, I hope to see Scotland up front for T&T in de nex game.
-
He would better learn these qualities playing at his club.
agreed. Country produces talent, club teaches class/quality, that's how it should be, but how often have we seen potential turn to wasted talent...
-
He would better learn these qualities playing at his club.
agreed. Country produces talent, club teaches class/quality, that's how it should be, but how often have we seen potential turn to wasted talent...
…Points right back to the quality of coaching we don’t have in the county. :(
-
He would better learn these qualities playing at his club.
agreed. Country produces talent, club teaches class/quality, that's how it should be, but how often have we seen potential turn to wasted talent...
…Points right back to the quality of coaching we don’t have in the county. :(
Very true, that is why our players don't develop past a certain level if they stay in T&T.
-
De man have de baddest first touch when it come on he chest...yuh never see how it does stick like glue. All we hadda do is jes pump den eeeen on he chest right chroo. Is not rocket science!
-
Listen I like Kenwyn but I have to agree with Anton ..it's like he's lost something going forward ...indecisive moving forward not sure what he gonna do.... his touch is poor as well .....during the world cup Kenwyn would work his ass off ...now he just wanna post up ad touch it back ..... to me he have to do better ...I'm not impressed..... I would go with Scotty and Glen and see what transpires .....
Even when he has opportunities in front goal in the 18 yard he would pass off to others. A striker must shoot first most of the times! He needs to be taught, to become more selfish. He’s rarely takes on defenders one on one, correct me if I’m wrong, which is another skill of a true striker. He has alot to learn at his young age. He would better learn these qualities playing at his club.
I wonder if he actually can shoot!
I always find that KJ's biggest weakness has been his first touch. From pre-Germany to now, that has not seemed to have really improved much but that chance that he fluff yesterday spoke volumes of his instincts. He could have done any of a number of things with that ball to score that goal and instead chose (or instinctively did) the worst thing. A man ent gonna shoot if he don't have confidence in his own ability to shoot. Has KJ ever even taken a penalty for Sun'land?
-
if his weaknesses are ball touch, composure and keeping possession with support, then Mr. KND. he should be a crickerter and not a footballer, farless a mid field player.
steups.
well said star...i would put him in defense...next tuh lawrence
-
Leave the man as a foward and let him develop how everybody ready to jump on the man after a couple of bad games isn't this the same player we was raving about when he was lighting up the goal couple of weeks ago like it or not he is our top rated Striker leave him there...
-
He isn't that young (especially coming from an Arsenal fan, lol) He's 24, turning 25 this year. Compare that to someone like Bendtner who is 21 and regularly called s*** on the board.
-
He needs lots of SAQ traing along with some body mechanics and movement training.
He isn't that young (especially coming from an Arsenal fan, lol) He's 24, turning 25 this year. Compare that to someone like Bendtner who is 21 and regularly called s*** on the board.
I was wondering when someone was going to point this out.
-
He isn't that young (especially coming from an Arsenal fan, lol) He's 24, turning 25 this year. Compare that to someone like Bendtner who is 21 and regularly called s*** on the board.
I see men on here call Carlos and Whitley young.
-
Don't get too trigger happy guys. Kenwyne can play forward just fine. Keep in mind the changes he's just experienced. Comming back from injury, new coach using him as a lone striker etc. Jones can dribble very well. He may be lacking a bit of confidence (although thats one thing he has loads of). He will be fine. He will find his rythm and score the goals. I personally wish he didn't have to concentrate on going back to defend. When he plays with another striker, he is more effective, naturally.
-
He isn't that young (especially coming from an Arsenal fan, lol) He's 24, turning 25 this year. Compare that to someone like Bendtner who is 21 and regularly called s*** on the board.
Hoss when man callin' fuh Latas tuh be the general of our WC side at age 40, yuh hadda adjust to Trini football definitions of young... :-\
In Trini football 30 is the new 21.....-Considering that, KJ career eh even start yet ;D
-
He isn't that young (especially coming from an Arsenal fan, lol) He's 24, turning 25 this year. Compare that to someone like Bendtner who is 21 and regularly called s*** on the board.
Hoss when man callin' fuh Latas tuh be the general of our WC side at age 40, yuh hadda adjust to Trini football definitions of young... :-\
In Trini football 30 is the new 21.....-Considering that, KJ career eh even start yet ;D
I think I get it now ... there is:
world football young;
trini football young; and...
"compared to me he is" young
-
Don't get too trigger happy guys. Kenwyne can play forward just fine. Keep in mind the changes he's just experienced. Comming back from injury, new coach using him as a lone striker etc. Jones can dribble very well. He may be lacking a bit of confidence (although thats one thing he has loads of). He will be fine. He will find his rythm and score the goals. I personally wish he didn't have to concentrate on going back to defend. When he plays with another striker, he is more effective, naturally.
Too right. The comments on here bordering on absurd. Suddenly Kenwyne shouldn't be playing forward. What yuh go say for Zamora, Carlton Cole, Camara and all them men who would love to have Kenwyne's scoring record. Also if his touches not good enough fo rhim to have a career as a forward yuh really think he should be playing in midfield? At least his physique and aerial skills could be used when he up front.
Seriously all the deficiencies that people note with Kenwyne occur at times. Sometimes frequent (poor game) sometimes less so ( good game). I remember his first goal for Sunderland, he kill a ball expertly, beat the defender with his first touch and blast the ball from the edge of the box. So he can trap, beat, move and shoot well enough to be a forward.
Does he do it all the time? Does any player? By premiership standards he is under-developed for his age. He will improve with time and has a bright future ahead as a striker. We will see how good he will be with time.
-
Watched de game last night on skysports and the commentators were unison in saying that Jones lost his confidence after de miss. Looking at the one on one, he ran out of ideas against de keeper when de keeper did not come off his line. He tried to place it but it lack power and it went straight to de keeper.
I will take dat he did not trained because of the knock on de knee and playing up front alone with two defenders on you 24/07 can wear yuh down but he does lack dat killer instant and he doh have tuh look too far for a teacher - Yorkie.
-
Just get it back ASAP