Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum

Sports => Football => Topic started by: maxg on May 29, 2005, 09:43:58 AM

Title: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on May 29, 2005, 09:43:58 AM
"This, after Sports Minister Roger Boynes announced at a post-Cabinet news conference last week that Government had given the go-ahead to his ministry to construct a sports complex in the obscure community of Tarouba in South Trinidad to the tune of $850 million.

The complex is to be constructed on 180 acres of Caroni lands and will comprise the Brian Lara cricket stadium, the George Bovell aquatic centre, and will include facilities for training local and regional sportsmen. "
President of the Chamber of Commerce, Christian Mouttet,
from Trinidad Guardian


If atall this Sports Complex should be built around/proximal one of the existing stadiums if possible. This is a major misuse of funds to simply generate a smoke screen that would only serve as magnifying glass to the Ruling powers ineptitude.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: sub1 on May 29, 2005, 10:10:01 AM
Quote
The complex is to be constructed on 180 acres of Caroni lands and will comprise the Brian Lara cricket stadium, the George Bovell aquatic centre, and will include facilities for training local and regional sportsmen. "
President of the Chamber of Commerce, Christian Mouttet, from Trinidad Guardian


If atall this Sports Complex should be built around/proximal one of the existing stadiums if possible. This is a major misuse of funds to simply generate a smoke screen that would only serve as magnifying glass to the Ruling powers ineptitude.


So tell me oh wise one, how will this be another white elephant. And while you are at it...tell me what all these concerned businessmen have and are doing for sport in the country. I must say though you seem to have a passionate concern for how money is spent on sport in the country. That type of passion will see us always failing at what we do. Open your mind maxg and grow
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: real madness on May 29, 2005, 10:47:04 AM
"This, after Sports Minister Roger Boynes announced at a post-Cabinet news conference last week that Government had given the go-ahead to his ministry to construct a sports complex in the obscure community of Tarouba in South Trinidad to the tune of $850 million.

The complex is to be constructed on 180 acres of Caroni lands and will comprise the Brian Lara cricket stadium, the George Bovell aquatic centre, and will include facilities for training local and regional sportsmen. "
President of the Chamber of Commerce, Christian Mouttet,
from Trinidad Guardian


If atall this Sports Complex should be built around/proximal one of the existing stadiums if possible. This is a major misuse of funds to simply generate a smoke screen that would only serve as magnifying glass to the Ruling powers ineptitude.


Maxg,
Can you please explain why it should be built around one of the existing stadiums.  I don't understantd what you are trying to say.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: dcs on May 29, 2005, 11:21:41 AM

I guess you could save money if it is in the same vicinty as an existing facility as you can have one set of staff to maintain it.
You can also use exisitng stuff that already in place like the car park, administrative offices, existing infrustructure like pipes, electricity lines, communication lines.

Is like having the Jean Pierre Complex right by the Hasely Crawford instead of somewhere else.
I thought they had announced a while back that they were putting the Bovell aquatic center down powder magazine side.
http://www.guardian.co.tt/archives/2004-10-06/sports4.html

The construction costs for all the new football stadia we have came up to $450 million.

I suspect this one so big it doesn't have space by the current stadia to add this one.
Bacelot already adding on to the Dwight Yorke.

Is funny they spending so much on infrustructure but barely wanted to give 1% of it to actually run de programs that would use the facilities.
If they spend half that amount and use the other half to support the sporting programs (with auditing and accountability for every purchase) we might see some improvement in sport....administrative and on the field.
Title: very nice point dcs
Post by: vb on May 29, 2005, 11:55:51 AM
Max G I notice u said they should have built it next to one of the existing facilities.but you did not say WHICH  one.

We can not concentrate everything in POS.

We already have the JP Complex, Hazley C. Stad.  and QPO.

The other areas of the country need developing. Just outside of the second largest city is not a prob. the land was prob. cheaper than POS land too.

It's not that big a deal to drive down there. Let POS ppl drive for a change...and yes I'm a town boy.

it will boost the economy of th South for years to come, with all the construction/events to be had.

Traffic will not be congested if it's just outside Marabella as Sam told me.

Maybe there was a better location...but something of this magnitude, I'm glad it wasn't built in congested POS.

Right next to Marabella or even Arima, I have no prob. with that.

Peace,
VB
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on May 29, 2005, 12:26:57 PM
.........

Is funny they spending so much on infrustructure but barely wanted to give 1% of it to actually run de programs that would use the facilities.
If they spend half that amount and use the other half to support the sporting programs (with auditing and accountability for every purchase) we might see some improvement in sport....administrative and on the field.

dcs yuh thinkin,,,the Hasely Crawford when first built was problems...all kinda fancy equipment,  training and treatment...but after all was acquired...the Government couldn't afford the staff to utilize and run any kind of programs out of it. Just like building 5 stadia and barely paying upkeep, so yuh go turn around and add a another brand new complex...

Sub1, i don't care how the f**k they spend the money, but doh light it and blow smoke up people ass. Transportation, easy access to the people who will be using it, programs staff, technical, maintenence, environs. Fella yuh doh just build a School and people walk into it and they learn. There is a yearly cost from Janitor to Program Director, equipment maintenance and replacement, food services, cleaning services, security...Think before yuh start trying to insult people, nah. I not about that.  Yuh know what these concerned business do or don't do for sport. Yuh have any idea if people close down they business and leave, what the socio-economic situation will be...I don't ...
Open my mind and grow...really...what causing you to be constantly typin stuff so people will think you foolish so? the internet? something personal? if yuh wha chat personally, I don't mind helping yuh out bredda...buh doh expect meh to delve into cussing and fighting yuh down, bout who wise and smart and who chupid....it have millions wiser and smarter than plenty...I have met a few, and ah married one..so I accustome to being on the mentally weaker side, yet my strengths lie in seeing the big picture, and adaptaion to life....and focusing on sport and nothing else, is not the whole picture...but that is another story
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: vb on May 29, 2005, 12:32:59 PM
Max G I'm curious as to why u think there's not staff for the HC stad.

Perhaps a long time ago...but I know there is an admin. staff...last time I checked Mark Litrin, an ex QRC footballer was the Marketing Officer.

For my sake enlighten me nah.

Peace,
VB
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on May 29, 2005, 12:51:14 PM
vb, since it seem to be ah done deal, I agree. But as a completely independent structure, i think it is a major mistake.. I can't comment on specifics, cause I am not privy to all the thought processes that made this conclusion that this will benefit our country..buh let meh ask yuh this, would there be a shuttle service that will pick up and transport the athletes, or every athlete will have a car, or access to one, or jus take ah taxi...What age group would be primarily using this facility? How will the more senior sports men, earn a living and train, Do we give them a stipend for National training, or they come when they could get time off from work...I don't know everything, you may have noticed I comment on other people ideas analyze it, and try to make it better...The Idea is only the beginning of the story, healthy people is the end of ours..no?

I jus read your question, Yes, there was no staff when it was built...The budget went so over, to cut cost they left out the leads for the EKG machine etc.an EKG mach. without the wires was like ah empty cardboard box....they had an adminstration staff of 2, One was a QRC guy, but ah think he died a few years ago..I think at the time all decisions were made by consultants, instead of people who would be actually working in the facility, and with the athletes..... Recently, yuh remember the probs with upkeep of the new Stadia..
Yes it was a while back, but I see no indication that the thought process have changed much
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Solo on May 29, 2005, 01:37:54 PM
They need to focus on developing youth talent all over the country now even while the new facility is being built. We are losing many youths to crime everyday all parts of the country.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Touches on May 29, 2005, 01:57:58 PM
Real waste of Money,

How much Stadia we have in TT already?.........plus a national cricket center down in Couva.

All the Stadia making losses.......they does hadda rent them out for fete match at 600$ to earn any kinda income.

The cost of a stadium is not a one time fee. It also includes, ongoing maintenance and staff, utilities etc.

Sport is not a business in TT right now to generate that kinda income.

Uwi just did over their facilities including a new cricket field.

Build the Pool for the swimmers as they crying out for a facility for the longest while.

But the money could be better spent on fixing the roads, painting some lines on the highway and installing some cat eye.

Helping the fire services, the hospitals, the Police, subsidising the farmers to keep down the cost of foodstuff etc.Build over City gate, put up the interchange by Nestle or start on the Monorail system.

We not utilising the White Elephants we currently have in existance but we looking to put up a White Mammoth.

More important issues to deal with down here.


Lastly.......they could take some of that money and Sponsor the Warriors for 4 years so we could keep the coach and players together and 2010 could be a reality.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Benjie on May 29, 2005, 02:12:59 PM
De problem is the gov't retaining control,
rather than give it to private enterprise and let them run it. Yes it will be because the Govt Service cannot maximise usage of it. I feel that they should leasethe stadia out at a peppercorn rent to Prof Teams let them take care of upkeep marketing etc. The fact is unless they are run like a business and not a charity they will be white elephants. Control can be kept by having oversight in the form of a board.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on May 29, 2005, 02:14:12 PM
 Exactly how I thinking Touches...plenty things could get covered with the same money, and be utilized now. and still benefit many down the road, as well as atheletes..
You right dey, so you could quicker see, the pothole,the man or dog running cross the highway, the people fighting for ah Maxi... I know the pothole dey, but ah doh have to drive meh brain round it..all I seeing is it have a Road from A to B..In my mind people not crossing it. and I just asking how much people was at the game...the mind not asking, how much people have to sacrifice to get to the game, and what dey must do.
Which consultants Boynes and Manning discuss that real Complex one with, pray tell ?

Interesting suggestion Benjie. How do you decide which orgnization?
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: dcs on May 29, 2005, 02:31:25 PM
I understand they have an obligation to build facilities for the Cricket WC, is the same thing that went on for the U17 WC.
I doh think is a matter of using the money for something else other than sport cuz to me it look like money flowing like water.  Is a matter that they just not doing the something else they supposed to be doing TOO.

But $850 mil for one facility is a hell of alot.  Imagine a whole airport was "supposed" to cost less than this one facility and an airport is used every minute of the day.

Should they just do like football and build a couple of smaller ones, maybe even at the other existing sites?
The thing is we have the brown bag (shit bag) and no big matches anyway.  It sounding like overkill. 

I doh know if having a cricket stadia right next to a football one is a good thing but football and cricket shouldn't be going on the same field anyway(at least not Int'l level)....unless is windball like up in de Ato Boldon.

The problem alot of people would have is what driving this decision.  Was it part of some well thought out sport initiative that is part of a National Sports plan......or is it being forced into the Sports Plan but mostly a hasty political answer to problems like crime.
If is the latter they deserve whatever licks they get.  I didn't hear no discussion going on about this project so how long they thinking abou it?

It go back to what maxg say....yuh buy an expensive EKG machine and doh have de plug to turn it on   :D lol
Imagine if they cut that budget in half....still get the aquatic center, the cricket and cycling facility.  Look how much left over for programs that ACTUALLY using the facilities.

Anyway, we done getting it so hopefully it is put to good use and the operations are well funded afterward  ::)
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Newkid on May 29, 2005, 02:40:05 PM
The new stadia is part of the goverment obligation to the world cup cricket. It would be bulid in torouba not far from sando technical institute. The first phase would cost approx $250 million which would be the cricket venue. it would be used to hold warm up matches for the world cup and suppose to be state of the art, with all of the latest training tech support. Presently there is nothing like that in the whole of the carribean. This will certainly help our cricketers who will now have these facilites to train. I do think that this is a waste of money as it provides us with an chance if our players are serious to compete. it also provides us with another venue to play cricket other than the Queens park oval, not counting that thing that they have in couva that is not spectator friendly.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on May 29, 2005, 02:58:05 PM
ah was thinking bout Benjie suggestion, cause i was more looking at turning it over to the communities in which they are located, it will assist and benefit those communities, as far as development and bonding, but would those communities have the professionals necessary to operate something of that stature   ??? I don't know the communities..

"Should they just do like football and build a couple of smaller ones, maybe even at the other existing sites?" - dcs

or half way in between or something...

Kenya started bombarding the world with middle distance runners, many ran barefoot, up to today. No infrastructure, no funds...just desire, and pride...We had many excellent athletes (cricket, football, track) in the past(not much swimmers true), high public interest, participation, and involvement....1 Oval, 1 skinner park, bunch a lil patches and street football...wel that was then, we have to keep up with the rest of the world (jones)

Yet building a Cathedrall, won't gaurantee yuh a place in heaven. Won't mean yuh Holy. Hell it might not even mean yuh is a good fella. but intially people go come and see it..

In my opinion our young atheletes require more modern  coaching, i.e. training, nutrition, psychological development, and proper home nuturing and parent involvement. Then somewhere to practice it further.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: sub1 on May 29, 2005, 04:03:58 PM
Left to the many blowhards on this board many things would never get done in T&T. If i take a poll  I am sure that the same ones who were saying leave Bertille are the same ones up in arms about the stadium. Thank GOD these decisions are made at a higher level and not dependent on such backward thinking. Imagine a man who can hardly put two thoughts together asking if any thought was put into the planning of this project. Bro you cant be married to a wise one because then no thought or wisdom went into decision to marry you.

Foward with this magnificent project and to hell with the naysayers. They are all nothing but collective millstones around the country's neck. And btw maxg before you buy a car just study how much you would save catching the bus or how much cheaper it is to travel by boat ......forget the plane as a matter of inquiry do you still bop your woman over the head with your club?

One day hopefully you people will arise from this cent and penny thinking.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Touches on May 29, 2005, 05:17:01 PM
Sub1

I take offence to the term "You People"

I came across this term during my time in the states and it was always made in a condescending manner by those who felt superior.

But let me just share with you the views of "You People"

Courtesy the Trinidad Express

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_opinion?id=80296633

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_opinion?id=80296627

And from the Trinidad Guardian......please scroll down.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/letters.html


Lastly, I am up in arms about this stadium but I was one of the chief supporters of the Fire Bertie campaign.

Am I a collective millstone around this country's neck because I do not share the same view as you?


Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Coop's on May 29, 2005, 05:25:59 PM
Maxg this topic seems to be a sensitive one but i tend to agree with you totally,i can't see the reasoning behind this, is it a political move by our Government,we have enough white  elephants already,this country is too small for so many Stadiums,we building all these Stadiums and our best athletes have to leave home to improve themselves and make a living,just like Football when Cricket WC is over it's going to just stand there,every one in the world knows there is no better place to watch Cricket than the Oval.
    I too think we need programs in this country to develope all aspects of sports,tell me a sport that's donig well?It have sports you don't even here about it that bad and those were sports we used to do well in eg Field Hochey,Tennis,Ping Pong,Badminton,Netball at one time best in the World,when last was a Netball tournament played at the Jean Pierre Complex,Hampton in trouble to get their games financed,get more technical people in here,i personally feel with more options available could be a way to get some of these youths off the streets.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on May 29, 2005, 06:36:34 PM
Left to the many blowhards on this board many things would never get done in T&T. If i take a poll  I am sure that the same ones who were saying leave Bertille are the same ones up in arms about the stadium. Thank GOD these decisions are made at a higher level and not dependent on such backward thinking. Imagine a man who can hardly put two thoughts together asking if any thought was put into the planning of this project. Bro you cant be married to a wise one because then no thought or wisdom went into decision to marry you.

Foward with this magnificent project and to hell with the naysayers. They are all nothing but collective millstones around the country's neck. And btw maxg before you buy a car just study how much you would save catching the bus or how much cheaper it is to travel by boat ......forget the plane as a matter of inquiry do you still bop your woman over the head with your club?

One day hopefully you people will arise from this cent and penny thinking.

yuh fas an outa place

maxg wife
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Trini _2026 on May 29, 2005, 07:22:07 PM
dat eh maxg wife is maxg posing like ah woman.Maxg wife eh no trini bout yuh fas an outa place
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: concerned on May 29, 2005, 07:23:45 PM
This is going to end up just like the race track they wanted to put in central some 20 years ago .....alot of bobol...and nothing......has anyone visited the General Hospital lately....it is a mess ....850millon will fix that, fix the police service who need the tools .....dem ministers gone mad
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on May 29, 2005, 07:40:42 PM
dat eh maxg wife is maxg posing like ah woman.Maxg wife eh no trini bout yuh fas an outa place

Like allyuh looking for a true trini cuss - aks Maxg - I is not only a trini - ah is a country coolie trini who does cuss !!!!

de wife ;)
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Trini _2026 on May 29, 2005, 07:47:45 PM
yuh could make talcurry
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Solo on May 29, 2005, 07:48:39 PM
nah boy dah is defintely de wife.fuh sure!
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: sub1 on May 29, 2005, 07:49:38 PM
Sub1

I take offence to the term "You People"

I came across this term during my time in the states and it was always made in a condescending manner by those who felt superior.

But let me just share with you the views of "You People"

Courtesy the Trinidad Express

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_opinion?id=80296633

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_opinion?id=80296627

And from the Trinidad Guardian......please scroll down.

http://www.guardian.co.tt/letters.html


Lastly, I am up in arms about this stadium but I was one of the chief supporters of the Fire Bertie campaign.

Am I a collective millstone around this country's neck because I do not share the same view as you?




"you people" isaterm of seperation, a dividing line in the sand. It is used here by me to show my total unadulterated disagreement with those who think the stadium is waste of time. Many thought the airport was a waste of time....the JP complex......and , and, and ...what else. What have we built in recent years that we look back on? Very few and far between......but we are up in arms with our so called righteous indignation for something that will benefit us as a nation and people but we laugh and get kicks when the politicians tief twice as much. We even idolise them and lift them up saying '' look how far he reach eh" from a cane cutter to a multimillionaire, from a school teacher to a power broker on the world scene.

After we have built this stadium it will be there. After these politicians leave will our money be there? Will crime be there? will unsupportive businessmen still be there?

Stop the hand wringing and self righteousness and let the people get theirs. The politicians will get theirs and not a peep will be forthcoming from the mouths of the naysayers.

BTW Touches if you were one of the enlightened ones calling for Bertille's removal I applaud you. But this just shows that you cant have 100% approval with independent thinkers. We were proven correct in the call for his removal............time will tell on the stadium issue. In the mean time dont rob the people of their inheritance.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on May 29, 2005, 08:19:23 PM

Like allyuh looking for a true trini cuss - aks Maxg - I is not only a trini - ah is a country coolie trini who does cuss !!!!

de wife ;)

oh gaad oh.. :D ;D :D
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: palos on May 29, 2005, 10:13:03 PM
Like allyuh looking for a true trini cuss - aks Maxg - I is not only a trini - ah is a country coolie trini who does cuss !!!!

de wife ;)

Lawd....allyuh leff "de wife" alone if allyuh know wha good fuh allyuh eh.  Triniman....she is more trini dan you could ever be...and more woman dan u could ever get.  Ketch yuh little pissin tail self and have some respeck.

Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: dcs on May 29, 2005, 10:33:49 PM

This $850 mill is just an indication of panic but we go take it anyway.
hahaha.  politics is real entertainment sometimes yes.


Is it going to solve crime....noooooo.
Will sport benefit...yessss.
Is it at least close to an efficient way to use $850 mill for sport is the main question.
Facilities is part of the equation but if the other things not there too then what de hell is the point.
Boynes seem to be doing a better job these days so maybe a sustainable sports plan is something real and not ficticous?


Could anyone here let me know if they heard anything about this prior to the article coming out.
What discussion went on about this and which sporting organisations took part.
Ah mean, is dem going and use it not so?

Also, what happening to the aquatic center in Cocorite? Scrapped?....even after some ceremony with Bovell.

With the amount of spanking new facilities we have is best we have some kinda World Cup or big tournament every 6 years otherwise it go be emtpy right through.  What happened to having teams come down here for pre-season training.....no takers for the Tobago venue?  Who knows if anyone is marketing that.
Title: Stop that Tarouba madness
Post by: Tallman on June 08, 2005, 10:28:36 AM
By Anil Roberts (Trinidad Guardian)

850 million dollars to construct a state of the art sporting facility in a remote, unpopulated area of T&T can only be described as utter madness.

Facilities do not create world class athletes on their own. If this were the case, our national football teams would not now be struggling, as we have, per capita, the best football stadia in the western hemisphere. I have thought long and hard, searching for one, single reason why this facility should be constructed and quite frankly I have come up empty.

Minister Lenny Saith’s contention that constructing the Complex will help curb crime is totally preposterous. In order for sport, culture and the arts to effectively influence young people in a positive way, the activities must be taken to them, not vice versa. Sport, culture and arts programs must be placed in the communities.

The “build it and they will come” philosophy has been tried, tested and has failed in many developed and developing nations for decades. Consider for a moment the transport costs for the nation’s youth to arrive on a daily basis to this facility. Furthermore, we are yet to hear about concrete plans to begin construction of the major interchange between the Churchill-Roosevelt Highway and the Uriah Butler Highway and its subsidiary on and off-ramps along the east-west corridor.

This means that, even for those who can afford the extra transport costs, the time lost in traveling to and from this venue will render time-management of student-athletes almost impossible.

Academic achievements will ultimately suffer and parents will then be forced to prevent their children from continued involvement in the sporting programmes at the complex. Please keep in mind that years of neglect, nonchalance and a dismissive attitude toward sport has rendered our nation’s sporting culture as secondary.

We have and continue to place supreme importance on an extremely accelerated educational system above and beyond all else. Now, miraculously, the Government expects that construction of “PIARCO II” will convert sporting lethargy into sporting passion.

Furthermore, the contention that this oversised facility is an absolute necessity in fulfilling the high performance section of the National Sports Policy is a blatant, unadulterated fallacy. This component can be satisfied in a number of diverse, cost-effective ways.

For example, by granting UWI approximately $80 million to complete and expand its SPEC facilities to include sports medicine facilities, an astroturf, 250m wooden, covered cycling track, indoor tennis courts, extra dormitories and other facilities as deemed necessary.

Then the Government must mandate UWI to offer full scholarships to the nation’s elite level athletes to continue training locally under the best coaches. If this collaboration with UWI is not desirable, then the National Hockey Centre could be transformed into a national training centre (for all major sports) for a cost of under $200 million (this figure is extremely exaggerated due to the ridiculously obscene comparative figure of 850 million dollars). Both of these locations are closer to more densely populated areas than Tarouba.

One basic tenet of all successful business practices is location, location, location. Sport is big business.

Yet it seems that the Government does not have to apply the same stringent economic principles when spending taxpayers’ money as in the case of capital expenditure by the private sector. At this juncture, let me simply use one element of the project to illustrate my point:

A 50-metre, state of the art swimming facility, for training and competition, can be built for between 8 to 12 million dollars. Obviously for this complex, the Government may have budgeted well above this figure.

For a pool of that size to be economically viable on a purely local basis, a population size of 500,000 is necessary within a radius of a 30-minute drive. All I can say here is, GOOD LUCK!

Now, with an influx of international athletes, this base population figure can and will be reduced. However, a vigorous international marketing campaign and more, importantly, worldwide swimming contacts are needed. Unfortunately for us here in T&T, we have not even been able to effectively market our very own carnival, our beaches, our culture and music, our flora and fauna, our cheap shopping (relative to other countries) or even our climate. Now, all of a sudden, we are going to be able to market an $850 million sporting facility in the bush.

It is clear that, just as our five stadia continue to be a drain on the treasury, so shall be the “PIARCO II” Sports Complex.

It is an undeniable fact that sporting programmes and greater opportunities for the nation’s youth to develop character and utilise their time in a productive, positive manner, will have a great effect on crime reduction. The problem in this instance is that building an extravagant sporting complex is simply not the answer.

In 2002 I had the opportunity of working alongside the Minister of Sport, Roger Boynes, and Allison Ayres in developing a national programme called “No Time for Crime.”

After months of work, the programme was shelved because the budget of between $9 million to $17 million a year was deemed excessive. This was a programme, which would have provided the nation’s youth with additional sporting activities for eight months of the year in every single community across the country.

The programme involved competitions in wind-ball cricket, small goal football, basketball and netball.

All competitions were to be held at night, between the hours of eight and one o’clock, in order to occupy their leisure time at night with constructive activities. Entertainment was to be provided at all venues. All existing courts across the country were to be lit and renovated.

Existing community leaders were to be employed to organise and manage competitions. Motivational and inspirational speakers were to be hired to address the youth (Ato Boldon, Brian Lara, George Bovell III, Emile Abraham, Dwight Yorke, Stern John, Dexter Skeene, Dion La Focaude, Ron La Forest, Nigel Grovesnor etc).

Community coaches were to be trained as talent scouts. The country was to be inundated with billboards featuring our national sporting heroes, stating, “ NO TIME FOR CRIME”.

Play-off matches and award ceremonies were to be featured by all segments of the media. Companies were to provide the most disciplined players and teams with internships.

This ‘No Time For Crime’ programme was also to exist simultaneously with the National Football Development Programme, a compulsory, non-contact, martial arts programme in all primary schools, a talent identification programme and many more specific sport developmental programmes. During that period all were shelved for being too costly. Now I am reading and hearing that the very same ‘jefes’ in the Cabinet have approved an $850 million White Elephant in Tarouba!

Why Tarouba?

Why on prime agricultural land? In 20 years our children will be starving but they could always take an excursion to see the Great White Elephant, overgrown with bush! Why this sudden interest in sport after 43 years of neglect? Could it be that it is politically expedient to pour the first bag of concrete on fertile Caroni lands under the guise of a tribute to Brian Lara, rather than for hotels, high-end townhouses, golf courses, malls and casinos? Who knows, only time will tell if we, the people, allow this Tarouba madness to continue.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: dcs on June 08, 2005, 12:14:04 PM

I am glad Anil said this.
He speaks for swimming.  Imagine he said less than 12 million for a state of the art swimming center.

From the time I start reading I was just waiting for him to say something like this:

Now, all of a sudden, we are going to be able to market an $850 million sporting facility in the bush.

I really doh get how they scrap that NO TIME FOR CRIME project because it cost too much but they willing to drop a cool billion on this.
I still cah come to terms with the enormity of that figure.  It really confusing how they will put aside money for that so easy but refuse to do all the other smaller programs that would be ten times more effective but perhaps the programs not glamorous enough.
Now I am convinced the Ministry did not consult anyone about this project.....and it seems that all that WC2007 requirement is BS.

What do the cricket bosses have to say I wonder.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Themanfriday on August 31, 2006, 12:40:59 AM
Since I have not been home for over 10years... I lived in Marabella and heard that there is a stadium there. Where is the horse racing done now? Have they made better facillities for that in another town? Have these newly built facilities accomplished even 25% of what they were meant to do? I ask this in all earnesty. I miss home and want to go visit It is only because of Work and financial constraints that i have not yet.

PS: accepting donations to the GET Friday home FUND :rotfl:
Title: Piarco Part Deux
Post by: dcs on May 10, 2007, 10:13:44 PM
Brian Lara academy cost soars...

From $275m to 558m (http://guardian.co.tt/archives/2007-05-11/news12.html)


By Gail Alexander
Trinidad Guardian
Friday 11th May, 2007




The cost of the Brian Lara Cricket Academypart of the controversial Tarouba Sport Complexhas risen from the initial estimate of $275 million to approximately $558 million, Sports Minister Roger Boynes has confirmed.

Speaking at yesterdays weekly Whitehall briefing, Boynes acknowledged the initial cost of the Tarouba Sport Complex had been an estimated $850 million.

He said the $558 million estimated cost of the cricket academy, which is part of the complex, would take into consideration other infrastructure that will speak to the rest of the complex (sic).

Boynes said the original $275 million price of the academy was an estimate.

As the overall plan has been completed, the completed cost is now approximately $558 million, he added.

Boynes said the academy should be completed towards the end of 2007.

He said he intended to make a submission to Parliament on this by about next week so (sic).

Boynes said he was not happy the work took so long in coming.

He said there had been some challenges.

The original site was close to the Manny Ramjohn Stadium in Marabella and was later relocated to the Tarouba Sport Complex, he said.

More infrastructure had to be gone into in that particular site (sic), more piling, that sort of thing.

And the cost of material and labour, that sort of thing (sic). The prices would have increased.

Boynes said one had to expect that the cost of material and labour for instance would increase.

He said in the type of preparations for the cricket academy, some infrastructural work would have been done to speak to the whole (Tarouba) complex.

Wed have catered for some level of infrastructure that would speak to the rest of the development taking place, Boynes added.

He said the Government had not reached to the point of assessing whether the entire Tarouba Sporting Complex would surpass the initially estimated cost of $850 million.

Were not at that particular level yet, Boynes said.

Were only working on conceptual designs and we pulled out the Brian Lara Cricket Academy and that is all were focusing on at this time as we want to ensure it is the premier training centre...were focused on ensuring we complete that.

At the end of the day well assess the whole situation as related to the Brian Lara Cricket Academythat one facilityout of several facilities that will make up the whole sporting complex.

Well look at all work done and increased costs and well learn from it that time.

Govt role for Lara

Boynes said when the place was completed, it would be one of the most premier academies in the world and that is what were going to be doing with Brian Charles Lara: were going to be asking Brian to assist us in ensuring we establish it as a premier training venue and were going to make it available to the West Indies cricket team to train there.

God knows, they need the training, Boynes added.

Asked if a government post was in the offing for Lara, Boynes said: Let me put it on record: I have not discussed that with Brian Charles Lara.

Since Lara met with Prime Minister Patrick Manning last Tuesday to reportedly discuss retirement plans, there has been speculation that Lara might be offered a political post or even replace Boynes as Sports Minister.

Boynes is not contesting his Toco seat due to a healing spinal problem.

Yesterday, Boynes said the Cabinet, in recognition of what Lara means to T&T and in recognising his achievements on his retirement from international cricket, had deliberated on this.

And within a short period of time an annoucement will be made on what Cabinet decided, Boynes added.

Cabinet also deliberated on other matters and within a period of time I would come back to you and announce what some of these other things are.

Needless to say, we will be hosting a commemorative function and there are other aspects also.

Brian Lara will continue playing the role of Sports Ambassador for T&T.

This is a very important role in ensuring the Brian Lara Cricket Academy is established as one of the most premier training academies in

the world.
2005-2006 Trinidad Publishing Company Limited
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Sentinel on May 11, 2007, 12:50:46 AM

I agree with the opinions of Maxg, Dcs, Touches, Coops ...nuff said.

Too much other priorities that needs taking care off....from a business standpoint....that will support the economic needs and development of our nation....instead of political expediency that champions the need of any political party...although....their rhetoric indicates it will support the needs of sportmen and sportswoman of our country. 

From the information I have, there is no true mention of infrastructure that would insure the efficient use of the "White Elephant."  This venture only takes care of those special interest groups that will make millions..economically and politically..while compromising the use of the complex....because the ordinary person finds no easy access to the jungle.....or the ordinary man in the street finds the price to high to pay for its use.

Spend money on roads, railwaylines, water, electricity, the hospital etc. and upgrade existing complexes.

Luv U T&T
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Feliziano on May 11, 2007, 04:46:25 AM
so the $850 million tsunami shelter even built yet?
so they saying the academy has a seperate price too?
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Touches on May 11, 2007, 07:24:39 AM
I only shake meh head when I read the article in todays Express.

We build Brian Lara stadium for what?

It was not completed for the cricket WC

Cost triple and we all know how things go in the construction industry.

I doe do this but for this post I have to rub it in.

I TELL ALYUH SO....waste of damn money.

I am working on a few govnt construction projects and this money could have gone a long way to the hospitals, health centers, roads, providing water for poor communities. A booster pump for water is 1 million dollars each dey coulda put 2-3 in all the rural areas and ease all the people woes.

Hospitals in a mess. I visiting a family member in POS daily and I beseech any of you living in TT to not get sick or in a accident because tings in these facilities grim.

I am also totally against all the big buildings going up in town because it does nothing but give foreign consultants architects and construction firms big money and nuttin for the locals.

Also these buildings will become just like any other nice new ministry building....filled with old desk, cubicle and mash up chair.

Do you know the A/c and maintenance costs for these buildings????

Instead of building a desalination plant for water or a ethanol plant for the caroni farmers so the by product of sugar cane for be used we building tower to block out the sun.

Doe frighten 850 Million go train the next cricket prodigy so when he make WI team he could make plenty runs and get call all kinda bad name.

Money well spent.

 
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Jayerson on May 11, 2007, 09:18:32 AM
I only shake meh head when I read the article in todays Express.

We build Brian Lara stadium for what?

It was not completed for the cricket WC

Cost triple and we all know how things go in the construction industry.

I doe do this but for this post I have to rub it in.

I TELL ALYUH SO....waste of damn money.

I am working on a few govnt construction projects and this money could have gone a long way to the hospitals, health centers, roads, providing water for poor communities. A booster pump for water is 1 million dollars each dey coulda put 2-3 in all the rural areas and ease all the people woes.

Hospitals in a mess. I visiting a family member in POS daily and I beseech any of you living in TT to not get sick or in a accident because tings in these facilities grim.

I am also totally against all the big buildings going up in town because it does nothing but give foreign consultants architects and construction firms big money and nuttin for the locals.

Also these buildings will become just like any other nice new ministry building....filled with old desk, cubicle and mash up chair.

Do you know the A/c and maintenance costs for these buildings????

Instead of building a desalination plant for water or a ethanol plant for the caroni farmers so the by product of sugar cane for be used we building tower to block out the sun.

Doe frighten 850 Million go train the next cricket prodigy so when he make WI team he could make plenty runs and get call all kinda bad name.

Money well spent.


 

Just a few minutes ago my colleagues and i were speaking about the same thing. I don't know what else to say.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Cantona007 on May 11, 2007, 09:48:34 AM
Touches et al, this is really grim news. To me, living in foreign and hearing this dotishness, it real disheartening. On a related note, can anyone update me on the latest with Imbert's toy train?
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: D.H.W on May 11, 2007, 09:55:58 AM
I only shake meh head when I read the article in todays Express.

We build Brian Lara stadium for what?

It was not completed for the cricket WC

Cost triple and we all know how things go in the construction industry.

I doe do this but for this post I have to rub it in.

I TELL ALYUH SO....waste of damn money.

I am working on a few govnt construction projects and this money could have gone a long way to the hospitals, health centers, roads, providing water for poor communities. A booster pump for water is 1 million dollars each dey coulda put 2-3 in all the rural areas and ease all the people woes.

Hospitals in a mess. I visiting a family member in POS daily and I beseech any of you living in TT to not get sick or in a accident because tings in these facilities grim.

I am also totally against all the big buildings going up in town because it does nothing but give foreign consultants architects and construction firms big money and nuttin for the locals.

Also these buildings will become just like any other nice new ministry building....filled with old desk, cubicle and mash up chair.

Do you know the A/c and maintenance costs for these buildings????

Instead of building a desalination plant for water or a ethanol plant for the caroni farmers so the by product of sugar cane for be used we building tower to block out the sun.

Doe frighten 850 Million go train the next cricket prodigy so when he make WI team he could make plenty runs and get call all kinda bad name.

Money well spent.

 
dread i pass by that stadium a few weeks ago, that place aint even put d stands up or nothin yet it just looking flat with a set a conctrete pile up with rubble and a few workers moving around
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: dinho on May 11, 2007, 10:03:13 AM
The funniest phrases in this article are...

"that sort of thing..."

"that will speak to the rest of the complex..."

What exactly that mean? It could be any more vague?

Man accounting for a whole extra $283 million and this is de terminology?
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: D.H.W on May 11, 2007, 10:09:51 AM
to be fair i hear roger say the original estimate was 800 and something million  :'(
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: kounty on May 11, 2007, 10:26:13 AM
utter madness by anil...and to think he was a swimming coach right?  you see how political affiliation does lead men to talk stupidness.  Just last night I reading the article on the new swimming fella...homer. http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_sports?id=161143288
who break everybody record in his age group...swimming in a 25m pool.  I don't know how to make an analogy to the footballers on the forum except to compare it to if Trinidad only had fields with one goal and running up to half-line...and national teams everybody had to train on that half-field.  standard olympic (and by extension any international competition) does go on in a 50m pool.  the boy hatta spen time doing twice as much flip turns as anybody else in the world...ewven my small scruntin school here have a 50m pool..thaz just basics and trinidad have they international hopefuls swimming national competitions in 25m pools and fools on here talking about white elephants.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Strip on May 11, 2007, 10:30:06 AM
to be fair i hear roger say the original estimate was 800 and something million :'(

that estimate was for the whole complex given the 275MM estimate for the cricket academy, now that the cricket academy cost has doubled.. they will surely revise that 850MM estimate upwards.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: FF on May 11, 2007, 10:34:23 AM
to be fair i hear roger say the original estimate was 800 and something million :'(

that estimate was for the whole complex given the 275MM estimate for the cricket academy, now that the cricket academy cost has doubled.. they will surely revise that 850MM estimate upwards.

I ketch yuh again

Go and do some work nah man!
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: dcs on May 11, 2007, 10:47:49 AM

So how much swimming pools it going to have in Tarouba?

They supposed to build one down in Cocorite...they even had Bovell at the location for some ceremony.  Center of Excellence supposed to have something too but I not sure what the latest is.

Anil also spoke about putting money into developing facilities throughout the country not just in one location for elite athletes...I don't think it in the particular article posted here.

To be fair to Boynes I am seeing a fair amount of money being put into developing community facilities....that was also in the release accompanying this tarouba ting.  We might need an elite training center eventually but they doing things out of order...as usual.

Look they going and have tenders for the rail system and the transportation study was sent back for revision.  They have ESP?

utter madness by anil...and to think he was a swimming coach right?  you see how political affiliation does lead men to talk stupidness.  Just last night I reading the article on the new swimming fella...homer. http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_sports?id=161143288
who break everybody record in his age group...swimming in a 25m pool.  I don't know how to make an analogy to the footballers on the forum except to compare it to if Trinidad only had fields with one goal and running up to half-line...and national teams everybody had to train on that half-field.  standard olympic (and by extension any international competition) does go on in a 50m pool.  the boy hatta spen time doing twice as much flip turns as anybody else in the world...ewven my small scruntin school here have a 50m pool..thaz just basics and trinidad have they international hopefuls swimming national competitions in 25m pools and fools on here talking about white elephants.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Brownsugar on May 11, 2007, 11:38:01 AM
Ah have to re-read this thread (from today's date) before ah respond more in depth....but ah listen to Roger Boynes on de TV last night and when de man done talk....ah feel like is best he did say what he had to say in Greek....yuh ever meet somebody who trying to pull ah fast one on yuh and de person using all kinda fancy terms to tie yuh up....dat is how ah feel when Boynes was on de TV last night....when he done all ah coulda think of was this little emoticon from this forum...
 :bs: :bs: :bs:

Touches et al, this is really grim news. To me, living in foreign and hearing this dotishness, it real disheartening. On a related note, can anyone update me on the latest with Imbert's toy train?

Boss...ah have grimmer news fuh yuh...dem is de same people who going to win de next election cuz we does only vote...African or Indian...."I is ah PNM or UNC till ah dead"...even though de country falling apart....dis government running dis place like de Oil and gas going to last to infinity.....and it have no Opposition to do just dat oppose de madness....

So Cantona007, mih eh know if yuh should start to bawl down de place or laugh like yuh mad.....but dis place sweet yes....

Leave it so, we like it so....
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Strip on May 11, 2007, 12:25:24 PM
to be fair i hear roger say the original estimate was 800 and something million :'(

that estimate was for the whole complex given the 275MM estimate for the cricket academy, now that the cricket academy cost has doubled.. they will surely revise that 850MM estimate upwards.

I ketch yuh again

Go and do some work nah man!


damn...
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Deeks on May 11, 2007, 12:32:51 PM
Good Afternoon Ball Jumbies,
  Leh me put meh two non-cents into this white elephant business. Everybody knows TT need some kind of training site for the athletes, but most of us don't know how to go about it. When the Cubans, Bahamas, Jamaicans, Aussies and othe small countries win medals at the Olimpics, we shouting we should do like them. The facility is needed. The fact is the gov't don't know their head from their two-knees when it comes to cost estimation. They probably knew the estimate all along, but they gave low estimate to prevent uproar. The English, who we copy so much, did some "real cool" estimate on Wembley. IT was plagued but delays and wrong cost estimates, labor strikes. But now that it has finished everybody "seemed" to forget the cost.

I thought that the training center would have been built in Marabella near the stadium. But they said they don't have enough room. Only people from South and those who are familiar with the area can inform us. I hope when it is finished they design programs for elite and non-elite athletes. I hope they have a UTT branch for student/athlete to continue his or her education. like I said in a previous thread, Port -of-Spain/EW corriodor have the most facilities. South must have theirs too. That is Patrick legacy to the South people. One thing of note. Private financial backing to this project is unknown. Why is this?
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Jahyouth on May 11, 2007, 01:33:39 PM


Didn't many people also curse, carry on and oppose the building of the Promenade?  However, it is many of these very people who now love and enjoy the Brian Lara Promenade and hail it as a superb addition to the city of Port of Spain.

To provide a football reference, didn't many people also curse, carry on and oppose the dropping of Captain Angus Eve (along with National team veteran Anton Pierre and others) upon Leo Beenhakker's assumption of the post of Coach?  Those very people hailed Beenhakker as he led Trinidad and Tobago to an unprecedented berth as the smallest country ever to qualify for a World Cup.

Trinis like to oppose for opposing sake most of the time.

Go ahead and fund and build the facility in Tarouba.  Allow the people residing in the South to also reap the benefits of the petroleum and natural gas that their very land provides.  Using Anil Roberts' argument os "location location, location" nothing would be built in any area other than Port of Spain, San Fernando and (to a lesser extent) Arima then?  As Anil Roberts himself says, "That deserves a big steups!"

Build the facility, put in measures to ensure upkeep, and allow local youth and the public at large to enjoy.

Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: dcs on May 11, 2007, 02:24:17 PM

www.power102fm.com  Anil talking about it now.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on May 11, 2007, 02:54:52 PM
nb: This post was started almost 2 years ago, before any sod was turned.
Ppl, in responding please consider, that the original discussions were all hypothetical....Now that were are seeing the "Concrete" results...I am certain that the whole thought process and planning behind this project was....to quote brownsugar "  :bs:  "...
brownsugar, forgive meh if ah take your quote out of context...ah ralize yuh was speaking on the explanation given by the Minister, and not the whole project..

Wait allyuh, ah suspect the rain just start to fall, and the bs is jus ah trickle, leh we hope ah flood doh lik up even more ppl as the weather worsens.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on April 01, 2009, 08:27:55 AM
warning: OLD original post - 4 years
almost 2 more years added
personally ah like it, caus is d only time mrs G ever post...an the anniversary coming up   :rotfl:

from today's express

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=161459731

well thought out eh ?
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Touches on April 01, 2009, 08:33:37 AM
Ehy boy MaxG...we is collective millstones round people neck.  :rotfl:

and the stadium not fit to go een...steel have a failure rate or wha seventy someting percent.

Doh worry Maxg we does talk shit right tru ent.

Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Jah Gol on April 01, 2009, 08:37:32 AM
Ehy boy MaxG...we is collective millstones round people neck.  :rotfl:

and the stadium not fit to go een...steel have a failure rate or wha seventy someting percent.

Doh worry Maxg we does talk shit right tru ent.






The Actus expert further noted that the steel was tested and two testing companies gave the steelwork failure rates averaging 78.5 percent.

Two separate independent testing companies tested a significant representative proportion of the welds. The average failure rate of both independent tests is 78.5 percent. McCaffrey expressed a desire to examine this aspect of the project in further detail, but said he was unable to.


Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on April 01, 2009, 12:20:26 PM
Ehy boy MaxG...we is collective millstones round people neck.  :rotfl:

and the stadium not fit to go een...steel have a failure rate or wha seventy someting percent.

Doh worry Maxg we does talk shit right tru ent.



boy Touches we in the wrong business, how much millstones does make, bet is less than kite-paper...
maybe BS analyst
This fella musbe get this idea in this thread     ::)
http://guardian.co.tt/news/general/2009/04/01/lara-stadium-wrong-spot-engineer
"Consulting Engineer Arun Bush says a location close to the Mannie Ramjohn Stadium in Marabella would have been better to construct the Brian Lara Cricket Stadium. He said if that venue was chosen many of the problems with the soil at the chosen Tarouba site would not have arisen. He said the facility would have cost less than $300 million."
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: ann3boys on April 01, 2009, 01:25:43 PM
well if memory serves me right, near to the Mannie Ramjohn was the original location, and the govt decided to put the stadium opposite. I don't think there was ever a reason. actually the location was changed after the design was approved.
go figure!! maybe that's why the govt isn't complaining about the cost as it rises and rises... they know why :devil:
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Deeks on April 01, 2009, 05:42:31 PM
The idea of the complex was a good one. But whoever convince thenm to go Tatouba should shoulder the blame for the impasse. Patrick and all the yes men should take the blame. I don,t know marabella that well. But couldn't build the complex near Mannie Ramjohn? Is there not enough land around that area.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on April 05, 2010, 05:20:53 PM
Sad anniversary... :(

http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,118522.html
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Deeks on April 05, 2010, 05:56:48 PM
I don't think it is a white elephant. South needed an international cricket stadium. That is Patrick legacy for south TT. North has the oval. South has Lara. The problem gross ineptitude by Patrick financiers. Most projects have cost overruns, but this stadium construction is diabolical.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Jah Gol on April 05, 2010, 07:25:40 PM
What about the structural integrity of the stadium itself. I recall reading one report that said the steel was not suitable. Did this report also address quality control ?
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: che on April 05, 2010, 09:19:41 PM
Sad anniversary... :(

http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,118522.html

It will be ready for the next time West Indies host the World Cup.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: ironman on April 05, 2010, 10:31:56 PM
Could not help,to begin with the stadium is part of an Australian model of High PERFORMANCE CENTERS to be feed by schools and other less formal systems,Anil Roberts talk about unpopulated.....what is Gasparillo,Reform,Palmayra,St.Clements,Coceyea,St.Madeline,Toruba Housing District,Vistabella,Marabella,Iere Village,Brasil Squatters,Thompson Gardens,Corinth,Golconda to start with?Fellas is clown with hole in dey face!!!! and getting on thinking people nerves with frigging misinformation and alternate MOs.....seriously.
The cricket Center in Balmain is for now is not a stadium it is more of an academy with a pavilion.
All de talk about white elephant......who does go to the present stadia inthe evening?where neon trackers,simplex,silver bullet,phoenix,eagles does train?Not disputing finances but what let the youth go back to VOS ground or any patch of grass to train?then hope for gold?BTW how many stadia in Guadeloupe?fellas does bump dey gum ahh lawd.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on September 16, 2010, 09:19:21 AM
Warning: this is a Repost of an old topic

So what a good poltician tries to do, is talk some sense and sneak some nonsense past yuh, till ppl cyah tell, which is which, they know they definately heard some truths, but as time passes, when one reflects on what was said, yuh accept the whole presentation/speech/match as the truth.....

ah keep reposting this, so ppl will hopefully learn, to distinguish the truth from the nonsense right away, as it is being said, and thus won't have to defend issues based on failing memories...

For guys like ironman,
It is usually best to read a whole post/ look at the whole picture, before commenting on parts...

for ppl who knew better and tried to do something about it (like Anil didn't do) enjoy, you tried...for the rest of us, we could only shake our heads and do the zombie dance

Anil: I knew of Tarouba mess since 2003
...slams Opposition for 'defending' wrongdoing
from 'The Trinidad Express"
By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com   

Story Created: Sep 15, 2010 at 11:42 PM ECT

Story Updated: Sep 15, 2010 at 11:42 PM ECT

Sport Minister Anil Roberts disclosed yesterday he was aware the billion-dollar Tarouba Sporting Complex was a recipe for controversy since 2003.

In his contribution to the 2010/2011 budget debate at the Parliament sitting, at the Red House, Port of Spain, Roberts said this was one of the reasons why he did not renew his contract with the Sport Ministry, under the People's National Movement (PNM) administration, for the period January 2002 to 2004.

Roberts, a former swimming coach, said he did not renew the contract because in 2003, he saw a document on the desk of former sport minister Roger Boynes which detailed all the plans for the Tarouba Sporting Complex.

"I looked at the former minister, Roger Boynes, and told him, 'Sir, when you going to jail, I not following you!''' Roberts said.

He said now, eight years later, the project stands at $1.1 billion, and the People's Partnership Government will have to pay $54 million over six years to repay a $497 million loan the PNM government took to complete project.

Roberts also took to task Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley's statement the PNM will defend no wrongdoing.

"Where is Calder Hart, Uthara Rao, Ken Julien?" asked Roberts as he reminded the House billions were drained from the treasury under the PNM administration by these men.

Roberts said Hart, the former executive chairman of the Urban Development Corporation of Trinidad and Tobago (UDeCOTT), milked the Treasury, got $200,000 a month for himself and had the ability to ensure whenever there were cost overruns on mega projects, UDeCOTT's fees would also increase.

He said former prime minister Patrick Manning "defended Calder Hart on 45 occasions, saying he was the bastion of intelligence and implementation".

Roberts said Rowley and the present Opposition have no right to talk about morality and trust when the Hart scandal happened under their tenure.

"So the PNM will not defend wrongdoing, but the entire Cabinet sat quietly as people like Calder Hart overspent on Tarouba, Ministry of Legal Affairs building, every single project, NAPA (National Academy for the Performing Arts)...all of them, and they come here and say they do not defend wrongdoing?" Roberts asked.

He said Rowley had raised concern about Hart, yet when the general election was called, "the very said member went up on a platform and said forget all of that, time for election; let we go down the road together and now, he stands here, three months later, begging the population to believe that the PNM will not defend wrongdoing".

Roberts also trained his guns on former finance minister Karen Nunez-Tesheira. He recalled Nunez-Tesheira, who presided over the PNM government's bailout of CLICO, made moves to ensure her money was secure before she negotiated on behalf of policy-holders.

The minister also criticised former PNM minister Gary Hunt for wasting two million dollars on a national flag at the Hasely Crawford Stadium.

He questioned whether the PNM MPs had forgotten Rao, "the former chairman of EMBD, who was given charge of 13,000 acres of Caroni land but it somehow morphed to 33,000. Who was renting cars to a ghost company that did not exist, that's the EMBD Rao".

Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Touches on September 16, 2010, 09:30:06 AM
Max yuh gorn and bring up this bad news vexation thread.  :devil: :devil:

Everytime I reach down south and see dat on the highway I does steupes.

Damn ting reach a billion and yet to schedule a game in it.


Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on January 14, 2011, 03:32:12 PM
Max yuh gorn and bring up this bad news vexation thread.  :devil: :devil:

Everytime I reach down south and see dat on the highway I does steupes.

Damn ting reach a billion and yet to schedule a game in it.



We going for a double bill for vision 2020, man...once the cricket pitch finish, then we could go for gold
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Brian_Lara_Stadium_surpasses__1b-113541264.html


WARNING: OLD POST
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: just cool on January 14, 2011, 04:35:56 PM
Could someone post a picture or vid of the present state of the site?  porfavor.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Deeks on January 14, 2011, 04:41:32 PM
Of all the things Patrick is accused of, this one does make me shake meh head. I was for the cricket stadium. South needed an international cricket stadium. Patos allowed this to become an albatross around his neck. Brian Lara cricket stadium. He go take he lumps on this one. No excuse. Well I am sure he has one.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Tallman on January 14, 2011, 05:01:24 PM
Could someone post a picture or vid of the present state of the site?  porfavor.

Here is a video from last September

http://www.youtube.com/v/F7ITxR3Fr6s
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: MEP on January 14, 2011, 07:22:07 PM
wow dat man full ah heself
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: just cool on January 14, 2011, 08:09:43 PM
Could someone post a picture or vid of the present state of the site?  porfavor.

Here is a video from last September

http://www.youtube.com/v/F7ITxR3Fr6s
Thanx tallman. so what's the verdict on this complex, are they going to finish it or condemn it to a loss?
BTW, this fella scandalous eh ?? damn! the man have ah real fish market style boy.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on January 20, 2011, 09:43:18 AM
I will like to retract a statement I made where I said the present minister, then advisor did nothing to halt this madness(with all respect-sensible to many). Based on this evidence, that he did advise against it....

 http://www.stabroeknews.com/2011/news/breaking/01/14/lara-stadium-now-budgeted-at-tt1-07b/       


         Hope he accepts my sincerest apologies, which I hope to deliver in person along with my current ideas for which he is seeking....Continue with construction, add walls and turn into exclusive condos (aproxx 50- a la those 1mill/westmoorings projects ) or an exclusive out of the way Hotel/resort (to the stars), whereby either way,  the ppl in the surronding environs could at least get some employment in a service/maintenance/security/entertainment/management capacity and/or sell the whole project for 800 million to a private investor (wish socawarriors fans had money - 2mill ah we, $400 each, except a choice few like ...well too many names to call, will donate none, cause the ppl of south and athletes won't get a stade) , pay of yuh 497 million loan, pay off the associated expense, and write off the loss...do not sue the members of the previous government, like the previous throw away venture of the Abu Bakar court and "re-coup" fiasco...move on..Total cost 2 bill, total loss 1.2 bill, - trini poltics priceless - however employment generated in what could become a growing and secure Tarouba community

Then hire Maxg & friends- ah bringing meh own staff - at a nominal fee of no more than 50 Mill (consultant & staff included) who will organize a construction project of building in a more suitable environ or refurbish an present and existing park/recreational area(add: in the southland) and thus much smaller scale project, complete with swimming pool, cricket and football complex, at a gauranteed projected cost of 200 Mill...Any cost over-runs, cost to be withstood by Maxg & Co. Any uncompleted contract by either party, will lead to forfiet of all that party assets internationally. Total cost : 2.3 Bill, Total loss: 1.2 bill (doesn't change - as you now have a functioning self supporting employed community, and a functioning sports complex and training facilty)



ps:  ;) for those math wunderkids, you know who you are, there are other unforseen expenses, eg. lodging, room and board, and other unforseen expense..etc... maxg doh move so
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Jah Gol on January 20, 2011, 11:25:40 AM
Charges should have been laid for this.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Deeks on January 20, 2011, 04:23:17 PM
Patos can't run from this one!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on January 20, 2011, 04:29:18 PM
Charges should have been laid for this.
and waste more tax payers money ?
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: grskywalker on January 20, 2011, 08:22:31 PM
wait wait we cah pay footballers but we have 850 million to build stadium where nobody going to really use.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: weary1969 on January 20, 2011, 10:03:46 PM
wait wait we cah pay footballers but we have 850 million to build stadium where nobody going to really use.

1 eh have nutten 2 do wit each other.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: davyjenny1 on January 20, 2011, 10:28:05 PM
wow dat man full ah heself

Has always been. I used the radio station to market himself
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: elan on January 20, 2011, 10:44:01 PM
I hope they finish this facility.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on January 21, 2011, 02:19:11 AM
I hope they finish this facility.
I hope plenty ppl actually use it...with 1.8 billion thrown in the hole it is a gamble to throw more knowing when you start seeing something, means yuh still have to throw plenty more over a extended period of time. The biggest gamble however IMO , will the sports men & women actually benefit from it. Will they bother to give up where they traditionally and currently train to make this non-commercial, nouveau detour from the routine of what was their normal lives. when it is finished, if many ppl don't make use of it, we wouldn't be able to showcase it as a unique expensive mantel piece, cause they would have seen quite a few of these around the country already. Unless, unless, ppl go for " but have you ever seen one in the bush, overrun by bush" . If they ask "like Indy, temple of doom sorta?" Sell it to dem for what yuh get, doh bother to hold yuh head and ball...yeah ah hope, we use it, maybe run Canadian/US winter camps out of them, in prep for Southern hemispheres olympics , world cups, and maybe an exclusive British cricket club or two, all those big money generating sports we operate here in the so big ,vast and just plain far to go anywhere land of the humming bird  :-*. Shim ah did see a few in this city the other day, cyan even claim that....Island of the underused stadiums, except for carnival..now there yuh go..Seriously, ah hope it doh come to that!
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: weary1969 on January 21, 2011, 06:57:23 AM
wow dat man full ah heself

Has always been. I used the radio station to market himself

The man betta than Kottler because it work.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on February 09, 2011, 10:03:59 AM
Latest Update

http://guardian.co.tt/news/2011/02/07/tarouba-stadium-falling-apart tarouba stadium
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: elan on February 09, 2011, 10:05:32 AM
Latest Update

http://guardian.co.tt/news/2011/02/07/tarouba-stadium-falling-apart tarouba stadium


The Guardian cyah print nutten about the SIA, but they making sure to keep the past governement in de spotlight.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on February 09, 2011, 10:29:31 AM
Latest Update

http://guardian.co.tt/news/2011/02/07/tarouba-stadium-falling-apart tarouba stadium


The Guardian cyah print nutten about the SIA, but they making sure to keep the past governement in de spotlight.
Not to digress to much, but the Past Government Leaders, seemed intent on being in the spotlight.(See National arts center, See Summits, see Vision 2020).

 IMO, it was their priority job one, but I personally not about party, I about a majority of ppl & leading by common sense, especially when I know for a fact there are way smarter people than me in leadership roles, thus when they make certain decisions, I see it as being intentional, thus my question. Why they feel they must do people that.

One can plaster the SIA fiasco however one wants, the effect on the majority of ppl in TT is minimal.. Wheter if, 4 ppl doh know nothing getting paid for doing some secret work, or another 4 who know everything for getting paid for doing some secret work, I didn't see the difference before, when everything was working good, and I wheter is you, me or James Bond have the job, I'm not sure I would be able to discern the difference, as the results are secret, matters of National security nah ! Yet, when ah read how about ppl living in bush, getting electrocuted becasue they trying to thief electricity, flooding yearly and losing everything they have, cannot get running water, youths who feel they have to assault & kill, as a way of life..It make me wonder if 200+180 acres & Billions of dollars could have been used differently.(Tarouba+circuit+entertainment/sport area- how many of the population would afford it, and for how long)
Which I think should be the normal thought processes before the decisions are made..Don't do it, and then wonder how after...Look at every angle, pros and cons, alternatives, and number of people effected, for now and future, reference past and historical outcomes, and then decide....Don't build ah house in the middle of a dry river, and the 1st time it rains, cry another river ...buh is just my thoughts
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: elan on February 09, 2011, 10:43:57 AM
Latest Update

http://guardian.co.tt/news/2011/02/07/tarouba-stadium-falling-apart tarouba stadium


The Guardian cyah print nutten about the SIA, but they making sure to keep the past governement in de spotlight.
Not to digress to much, but the Past Government Leaders, seemed intent on being in the spotlight.(See National arts center, See Summits, see Vision 2020).

 IMO, it was their priority job one, but I personally not about party, I about a majority of ppl & leading by common sense, especially when I know for a fact there are way smarter people than me in leadership roles, thus when they make certain decisions, I see it as being intentional, thus my question. Why they feel they must do people that.

One can plaster the SIA fiasco however one wants, the effect on the majority of ppl in TT is minimal.. Wheter if, 4 ppl doh know nothing getting paid for doing some secret work, or another 4 who know everything for getting paid for doing some secret work, I didn't see the difference before, when everything was working good, and I wheter is you, me or James Bond have the job, I'm not sure I would be able to discern the difference, as the results are secret, matters of National security nah ! Yet, when ah read how about ppl living in bush, getting electrocuted becasue they trying to thief electricity, flooding yearly and losing everything they have, cannot get running water, youths who feel they have to assault & kill, as a way of life..It make me wonder if 200+180 acres & Billions of dollars could have been used differently.(Tarouba+circuit+entertainment/sport area- how many of the population would afford it, and for how long)
Which I think should be the normal thought processes before the decisions are made..Don't do it, and then wonder how after...Look at every angle, pros and cons, alternatives, and number of people effected, for now and future, reference past and historical outcomes, and then decide....Don't build ah house in the middle of a dry river, and the 1st time it rains, cry another river ...buh is just my thoughts

I get you. Maybe the intent was good, but the dark side of the politicians get the better of them. I think this was a good idea. Look how athletes (all sports), cannot use the HCS to train or compete. The current MoS turn the one major facility into fete central. What should athletes do now? With the Toruba baccahnal facilty done, maybe ALL athletes can feel confident in having a facilty that they can go to where they can train and compete at a high level.

The over run in cost, low quality of work and lack of accountability is shocking. However, to say that maybe this can take precedence over the SIA debacle, i'm not to sure. See right now in T&T the major problem is crime and the SIA is a major if not the most essential part of dealing with the criminal elements in our communities. The SIA is literally dealing with life and death. Therefore, the focus right now should be on the proper appointments, implimentation of policies, procedures and strategies that will impact the entire country.

Now coupled with this is the part that a facility such as the Tourba bacchanal facilty can play in bringing young people of the streets into a positive environment. As such, all people should be pushing to get this facility up and running.


My 2 cents.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on February 09, 2011, 11:12:56 AM
I'm at work, so i can't get into to much now...but remember the HCS & other stadiums were for similar justifiable reasons, when they were built, years later, what will therefore make the Tarouba facilty different..see suggestion earlyon in post...as far as upkeep and maintenance rather than build new stuff to be maintaind..etc..
"Therefore, the focus right now should be on the proper appointments, implimentation of policies, procedures and strategies that will impact the entire country.

Now coupled with this is the part that a facility such as the Tourba bacchanal facilty can play in bringing young people of the streets into a positive environment. As such, all people should be pushing to get this facility up and running. "

ah good wish, but ah wish all the same, wasn't the SIA operating before, so if they weren't what ? TT woulda be in Civil war now ?..just making light of a serious matter, don't get me wrong, I think "proper appointments, implimentation of policies, procedures and strategies that will impact the entire country." starts at the Heads of the country, not a secret organization, people sometime need to see leaders leading by accountabilty and example, not by title or appointment...I hoping this government, regardless of their mistakes are more aware of this, but certain members have meh skeptical...but I won't dare judge, without trial..
The reason why young people would not get off the streets for such items like the tarouba etc...Location, Location, Location...The minimum would benefit, it is sometimes better to upgrade, maintain, what ppl presently utilize than build something where no one will tread, wheater it be due ot distance to travel, personal security or some other.. some will go, most won't...

Like I tell meh bud...when ah youthman rev he Beast(car- he might have to steal one) to ah nex youth(who borrow he fadda own), and another rev he own, yuh think, they go make appointment to head up to Freeport to starighten who could car baddest...yuh think some bandits who like small goal and taking ah lil sweatm, go say, hyo, lewwe organize we self into ah league and hit the park where we could do this thing right nah man...me doh think so, buh is just ah opinion based on my experiences living here, in a so-called devloped country..you will notice I reference my growing here a lot, cause that's all I really know, as said before, I can't actually talk about the real life situations there, as I don't live there...better go..later


Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on June 08, 2011, 01:08:14 PM
Almost there, almost there

Compliments The Trinidad Express
$200m more to finish Brian Lara Stadium
By Susan Mohammed South Bureau
Story Created: Jun 7, 2011 at 11:44 PM ECT
Story Updated: Jun 7, 2011 at 11:44 PM ECT



http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/_200m_more_to_finish_Brian_Lara_Stadium-123434054.html
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Deeks on June 08, 2011, 04:25:02 PM
The gov't should either finish it or tear it down. Patos has to take the blame for this. He allowed Udecott and Karamath to screw this up big time. He should have stepped in and demand changes when this was getting out of hand. This is his albatross.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on September 12, 2013, 01:55:01 PM
apps we downgrade from Intl cricket to Secondary school cricket now..maybe ah next 2 years, Windball cricket, and by 5 years, a watermelon patch...we will have gone from producing sugar, laying off ppl, developing the land, back to argiculture for the people by the people....nah, this project, producing solid Gold for some ppl, but not the youhs everyone was so concerned about.
Let see some more.
http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2013-09-11/moonilal-eager-finish-tarouba-stadium-185m-fix-issues
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: vb on September 12, 2013, 02:02:53 PM
The gov't should either finish it or tear it down. Patos has to take the blame for this. He allowed Udecott and Karamath to screw this up big time. He should have stepped in and demand changes when this was getting out of hand. This is his albatross.

Hunte ha to take some blame too.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on September 12, 2013, 02:16:23 PM
Warning..it's an old post...i'm sure many people have changed their stance on this project, if not the idea base don which it was sold
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on January 24, 2016, 10:09:02 AM


...Finish it now, its an eyesoreKing

TRINIDAD GUARDIAN
Shaliza Hassanali
Published: Sunday, January 24, 2016

Economist Indera Sagewan-Alli is urging Government to hold its hand on completing the Brian Lara Stadium in Tarouba, since it could put a drain on the Treasury, given the countrys economic situation.

Sagewan-Alli said the $90 million the Urban Development Corporation of T&T is projected to spend on the stadium to get the sporting facility operational could be invested in agriculture to generate revenue and help reduce the countrys growing food import bill.

She said the stadium should not be priority at this time.

While restarting work on the stadium would create jobs, Sagewan-Alli said: When you look at the medium to long term, it is going to create a further drain on the Treasury and with maintenance...

For years, Sagewan-Alli said, stadiums in T&T have not been revenue generating, so if there is such a plan for this stadium to generate money then the Government needs to share it with us. You are spending this amount of money when the country is challenged with revenue and foreign exchange.

Capital expenditure must relate to income generation, Sagewan-Alli said.

She said the countrys food import bill, which stands at $4 billion, was creating a foreign exchange crisis.

We dont have foreign exchange but we have the capacity to produce food to feed ourselves. The agriculture sector should be a priority not just in producing food, but also in value added and manufacturing.

She believes there is no quick-fix solution to the stadiums problem.

Put Childrens

Hospital in private healthcare system

On the issue of the Childrens Hospital, she questioned whether we were going to add another institution into a network of inefficiency.

While people have been calling for the Childrens Hospital to be opened, the reality is that our healthcare system is extremely inefficient. Are we going to add another institution into the network of inefficiency? There is nothing to lead us to believe it would be different.

Sagewan-Alli said every year the Government pumped billions of dollars into the healthcare system while measures were not put in place to prevent non-communicable diseases such as heart conditions, strokes, diabetes and cancers among citizens.

The economist suggested that the Government should retain the services of an international agency or strategic partner who can put the Childrens Hospital in the private healthcare system because of its size and volume.

By doing this, we could see the price of private health care going down.

But, according to economist Mary King, to spend $90 million on a $1 billion project, I dont think you could complain about that.

King said the stadium needed to be completed.

It has obviously deteriorated. So six years ago it would have cost $40 million to finish it. Now, given what is happening in the world, I dont think $90 million should be a problem for us.

I think we need to finish the damn stadium. It has not only been an eyesore, it has been a waste of a facility for years...sitting doing nothing.

Once completed, King said, the stadium would have many uses.



 



TRINIDAD GUARDIAN
Shaliza Hassanali
Published: Sunday, January 24, 2016
.

Under the noses of security guards, hundreds of thousands of dollars worth in fittings and fixtures at the controversial Brian Lara Stadium in Tarouba have been carted away by bandits.

Among the items stolen were gallons of paint, air condition units, rolls of electrical wires, amplifiers, lengths of copper pipe lines and lighting fixtures.

The thieves operated at night by gaining entry at the back of the pitch-black academy, which is surrounded by tall trees and towering grass.

The Sunday Guardian team learnt of the theft from anonymous sources, after the team was allowed to enter the stadium by lax security guards of Paragon Protection Consultants Ltd without being questioned or asked to show any identification.

But Yashmid Ellis Karamath, executive chairman of Hafeez Karamath Ltd (HKL), the main contractor of the sporting facility, is refusing to accept blame for the wanton theft.

I am not responsible for the stolen items, Karamath insisted yesterday.

In 2005, HKL was awarded the contract for the stadium by the Urban Development Corporation of T&T (Udecott), which was scheduled to be completed by 2007 in time for the ICC Cricket World Cup at an initial cost estimate of $275 million.

However, the cost of the stadium ballooned to $885 million with several delays, which resulted in the project being halted in 2010 by Udecott.

Up to that time, Karamath said, he had two security firmsThor Security Services Ltd and a canine unit called Man Stoppers that secured the sites and its materials.

Karamath: I am not responsible

But when he was asked to vacate the premises, I told them (Udecott) if I do that I would no longer be responsible for anything, Karamath said.

Karamath said it was difficult to quantify the losses incurred.

I have no idea what was stolen, Karamath said, refusing to elaborate further on the issue.

The fixtures and fittings, purchased by HKL, were placed in several rooms inside the facility, which were targeted by thieves.

The locks on many of the steel-plated doors where the items were stored were cut open.

Two roomfuls of electrical wires were pilfered of copper strands, while lengths of wires attached to several electrical panel boxes were snipped and removed.

Yesterday, chairman of Udecott Noel Garcia confirmed the theft had occurred from 2010 to 2015, but he could not put a value on the fixtures and fittings.

I dont know. I know the copper wire would be pretty expensive. Vandalism of copper wire is throughout...they vandalised a lot of TSTT and T&TECs lines. Its almost like some kind of organised ring, Garcia said.

He said due to poor security at the cricket academy people say it was a free for all. I have put a stop to all the Carnival fetes that were held in the car park and the drag racing. Once you have people on the stadium anything could happen. You would open the flood gates.

Garcia: It was just craziness

When Garcia toured the stadium with batting star Brian Lara last November, he said he heard there was a fair amount of vandalism...that people had stolen fixtures and electrical wires and so forth.

Yes, you are right, people did in fact vandalise and steal fixtures from the Brian Lara Stadium. It was just craziness. They stole the wires and air condition equipment.

When people say that we should leave the stadium and not fix it they have to be crazy because what would eventually happen, people...would steal out everything.

Under the new board at Udecott, Garcia said, security measures were put in place to ensure that there is no reoccurrence of what happened in the past with the stealing. Since November we have not had one incident of theft.

Among the measures were the beefing up of security guards, an increase in mobile patrols and illuminating a portion of the stadium.

He said for years the stadium remained in darkness.

Next month, Garcia said, refurbishment work on the stadium would resume, which was expected to cost taxpayers $90 million.

The work will go on.

Garcia said for the Sunday Guardian to gain entry into the stadium without producing an identification showed that security was lax. I would take steps to investigate this.

Asked if the contractor or Udecott would be held accountable for the stolen items, Garcia said: To be frank, I really dont know that.

Garcia said Udecott and HKL were now locked in a legal battle over the project and so he preferred not to comment further.

A security officer who identified herself as Geohajan at Paragon Protection Consultants Ltd said the owner of the establishment Mr Rezendie was not in office and she would pass on our concerns to him.

However, up to press time Rezendie had not returned our call.

MORE INFO

Project scandalous,

out of control

In 2009, the structural steelwork on the stadium was condemned according to a report into the Udecott project prepared by Gerry McCaffrey, the construction expert hired by the Uff Commission of Enquiry.

McCaffreys initial report into the project revealed that HKL ignored 300 stop orders for work on the project.

Chairman of the commission of enquiry into Udecott, Professor John Uff, QC, described the Brian Lara project as nothing short of scandalous and out of control.

Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on September 29, 2016, 05:43:13 PM
Ah was doing good till somebody say BL stadium..if the Hex had started, i might of forgotten completely about this thread...but nooooo...ah man had to bring it up   :frustrated: :cursing:
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on April 26, 2017, 12:27:34 PM
But the last paragraph, since 2005, we jamming still

http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,242789.html
15,000 LIVES AT RISK
SEAN DOUGLAS Wednesday, April 26 2017



PRINCES Town MP Barry Padarath yesterday warned that as many as 15,000 lives could be at risk at a star-studded T20 match on May 13, to formally open the billion-dollar Brian Lara Stadium in Tarouba.
Padarath said major questions remain outstanding on the safety of the structure, a decade after its original planned completion date.

On May 13, retired TT and West Indies batting star Brian Lara himself will lead a team against an invitational side led by retired Indian batting star Sachin Tendulkar, in a T20 match, to formally open the stadium. Minister Smith announced the sale of tickets for this match during last Thursdays post-Cabinet news conference.

Several efforts to reach Smith for comment yesterday proved futile.

Opposition MP Padarath questioned the structural integrity of the stadium saying a full assessment, under the former Peoples Partnership government, identified significant structural, drainage and design flaws.

He called on Government to, make public, all relevant documentation that the stadium and grounds were assessed and deemed safe and fit for public use. Padarath asked whether or not the stadium met international safety standards, claiming Government was silent on what was done to address significant and hazardous structural defects identified by construction expert Gerry McCaffrey in 2009.

Mc Caffrey indicated that on two separate occasions, independent testing was done to the welds on the stadium and (they) failed the required standard, Padarath said.

In addition, the structural steelwork was, effectively condemned, in the Uff Commission of Inquiry report yet Government has not stated what remedies were effected. In yet another attempt to distract from the important issue of safety, Government announces a celebrity match to mark the opening of the refurbished stadium. But citizens remain in the dark as to whether the venue has met internationally accepted standards for public safety, Padarath said.

The findings of construction expert Gerald Mc Caffrey of the British firm Acutus was reported in Newsday on March 22, 2009, in a story headlined, Tarouba Stadium Steel Condemned.

State enterprise Udecott (Urban Development Company of TT), which oversaw refurbishment of the stadium, yesterday indicated in a press release that a news conference will be held today at 11 am the TT Cricket Board office in Balmain, Couva to, inform of the rigorous preparation and ongoing testing of the pitches and players facilities at the Brian Lara Cricket Academy, Tarouba, in accordance with requirements set by the WIBC (West Indies Cricket Board) and the ICC (International Cricket Council). UDECOTT: STADIUM SAFE Udecott chairman Noel Garcia, in a second press release issued just before 6 pm yesterday, attacked comments which questioned the safety and structural integrity of the stadium.

And while not calling any names, Garcia demanded individuals making these statements withdraw them and apologise to the nation.

Udecott categorically refutes statements that the Brian Lara Cricket Academy is not safe and fit for use, the release stated. Garcia, in the release, said it was passing strange that individuals would make irresponsible statements after extensive remedial work was undertaken at the Academy over the past nine months to deal with issues outlined in the Uff report. Garcia said that the comments were mischievous and designed to create fear and panic especially since Udecott conducted all remedial work to ensure the facility conforms to current international codes governing sporting facilities. In addition, the release stated, Udecott commissioned a number of architectural, structural, mechanical, electrical and civil surveys.

And the findings, as tabled in these reports with supporting documentation, found the Academy to be safe for use, the release added. I call on the irresponsible individuals to withdraw such statements and apologise to the people of Trinidad and Tobago, Garcia said in the release.

In a separate statement, Naparima MP Rodney Charles questioned governments priorities hitting the planned opening of the stadium when students of the Reform Hindu School remain neglected by Government and are housed in the worst conditions, while the over 90 percent complete new school languishes, unopened due to a, lack of funding. Charles said the Prime Minister and his Cabinet should be ashamed to come to the opening ceremony of the stadium with the unopened Reform Hindu School mere metres away.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on August 24, 2017, 01:21:40 AM
Spinning top in mud

http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2017-08-23/public-banned-exercising
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Deeks on August 24, 2017, 02:58:02 PM
Chairman of the Sport Company of Trinidad and Tobago (SporTT) Dinanath Ramnarine told the T&T Guardian that the closure of the facility to the public for exercise purposes has nothing to do with the audit now being conducted. Rather, he said it was to protect the public.


Dinanath has a point here, you know.


He said he was concerned that there were hundreds of millions of dollars of equipment which have to stay outside the facility, the air conditioning needs to be running 24/7 at the Cycling Velodrome and if these things are sabotaged how do we prevent that.


This part needs some clarification. Equipment which needs to stay out the facility. Outside, how? If the equipment cost millions, why outside? Is it going to be covered for protection from the elements. And what about security for the facility?
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: congo on August 24, 2017, 03:41:16 PM
I see no reason why the general public should have access to our elite sporting facilities that have been built to develop elite athletes. These are not community centers. Trinis really have no clue what going on yes.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Deeks on August 24, 2017, 05:09:32 PM
congo, the man or woman exercising at that facility going to say, " my tax money paying for the upkeep of these facilities. Why can't I use it"
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Rastaman on August 24, 2017, 06:00:39 PM
I wonder if you could go walk around the car park of Wembly Stadium ??
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: congo on August 24, 2017, 06:28:47 PM
congo, the man or woman exercising at that facility going to say, " my tax money paying for the upkeep of these facilities. Why can't I use it"

And then the politicians become involved and the Ian Alleynes...Sigh

Imagine people "bathing" in a National Aquatic Center as though is a community pool. The problem probably stems from the huge fanfare that the gov't like to have when opening these things. Really make the community believe that it is there for their purpose and use. Those facilities should only be used for "competition" purposes. I'm sure the average athletic club can't saunter up to Wembley and blade its grass. We really need to grow up here.

Sad state of affairs in this place at all levels yes.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: congo on August 24, 2017, 06:30:50 PM
congo, the man or woman exercising at that facility going to say, " my tax money paying for the upkeep of these facilities. Why can't I use it"

Hardluck there, barely read your response. They are right in saying that and that's why I fully believe that these things need to have some sort of corporate input. Why shouldn't the average tax paying citizen use a facility that was built and being maintained with public funds? Same goes for the Hyatt?

We really need to rethink our governance model in this country.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on August 24, 2017, 06:46:51 PM
Boss..How many elite athletes we have coming out of Trinidad and how many of those actually train in Trinidad. We build a ton of facilities, do not high hire staff to run, maintain and generally utilize. We have had 1 Intl swim meet and maybe 2 local at the National pool. Don't know about the velodrome, we have more stadia than a major US state..and about 5 to 10 World class athletes to utilize. So how would you justify there construction use and staffing, if you don't recruit the use of them by the general population. Wait till watermelon and Banana start growing and sell in the Tunapuna market ?   ;D

add: every major exercise complex here is funded and maintained from the general public use of the facilities. Besides the fact that it's there tax dollars pay for it. where else will funding come from. If ppl use it for free, they will not consider it to be worth anything and misuse and take for granted it's true worth.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: congo on August 24, 2017, 08:24:00 PM
I still don't get why we never placed focus on multipurpose stadiums for various sporting, cultural and also community events. We are too small a country to have all these stadiums fitted for a singular purpose. Each stadium should have had a membership club with gym facilities and indoor squash etc. I mean proper gym facilities, not just a treadmill and weights room.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on August 24, 2017, 09:31:32 PM
The reason why I posted the article here, we discussed all these things with the Tarouba build, no one heeded, and as we might of thought, nothing was in place, at the time we weren't sure. This minister is at least honest, to call out the issues...nothing changed...and the TTFA even adding more to that particular area (training field), for addtl maintenance issues. I was at CCCan, everyday, I went out to look at the stadium field, there was 1 evening with a pro league game, maybe 20 ppl in stands,2 days with a team training on a back field, might have been U15, and  a day with a snr team, trining...otherwise the place ws empty..the Velodrome was EMPTY, right thru..I saw more cyclist riding the road in Martinque in one hour, daily, than I saw for 2 weeks in Trinidad and Tobago. With all that we have built, we should be hosting a Worlds of every sporting discipline every month. So far a football game here and there..and FIFA, not even sure the fields are in proper condition...so we go and build another...we start a 'non-professional' professional league, but players can't get paid without government intervention..without public participation in anything, what is the point.as I said, if you pay ppl to do normal, basic things, then the basic normal things are then taken for granted, now with all the emphasis on money and material, or lack of it, the generation not working at it out of passion, love, and because they want to be best, but because they want to have Ronaldo etc. money..and when that money dries up..so does our development.. I bolded a couple off the points discussed within some quotes, but there were other contributions as well.. Some of us saw, some didn't care, many of us could do not much, but talk..and now, the places will sit, not enough athletes to use, and no allowance to help a population try to be healthy or heal.. we surround by water, and many of us don't or can't swim.might as well take a bathe, according to Iwer..so what if we might drown..just kidding, but hmmmmm...this is talk to have over brew, yes...sorry if i'm a lil long winded


I guess you could save money if it is in the same vicinty as an existing facility as you can have one set of staff to maintain it.
You can also use exisitng stuff that already in place like the car park, administrative offices, existing infrustructure like pipes, electricity lines, communication lines.

Is like having the Jean Pierre Complex right by the Hasely Crawford instead of somewhere else.
I thought they had announced a while back that they were putting the Bovell aquatic center down powder magazine side.
http://www.guardian.co.tt/archives/2004-10-06/sports4.html

The construction costs for all the new football stadia we have came up to $450 million.

I suspect this one so big it doesn't have space by the current stadia to add this one.
Bacelot already adding on to the Dwight Yorke.

Is funny they spending so much on infrustructure but barely wanted to give 1% of it to actually run de programs that would use the facilities.
If they spend half that amount and use the other half to support the sporting programs (with auditing and accountability for every purchase) we might see some improvement in sport....administrative and on the field.


This $850 mill is just an indication of panic but we go take it anyway.
hahaha.  politics is real entertainment sometimes yes.


Is it going to solve crime....noooooo.
Will sport benefit...yessss.
Is it at least close to an efficient way to use $850 mill for sport is the main question.
Facilities is part of the equation but if the other things not there too then what de hell is the point.
Boynes seem to be doing a better job these days so maybe a sustainable sports plan is something real and not ficticous?


Could anyone here let me know if they heard anything about this prior to the article coming out.
What discussion went on about this and which sporting organisations took part.
Ah mean, is dem going and use it not so?

Also, what happening to the aquatic center in Cocorite? Scrapped?....even after some ceremony with Bovell.

With the amount of spanking new facilities we have is best we have some kinda World Cup or big tournament every 6 years otherwise it go be emtpy right through.  What happened to having teams come down here for pre-season training.....no takers for the Tobago venue?  Who knows if anyone is marketing that.
ah was thinking bout Benjie suggestion, cause i was more looking at turning it over to the communities in which they are located, it will assist and benefit those communities, as far as development and bonding, but would those communities have the professionals necessary to operate something of that stature   ??? I don't know the communities..

"Should they just do like football and build a couple of smaller ones, maybe even at the other existing sites?" - dcs

or half way in between or something...

Kenya started bombarding the world with middle distance runners, many ran barefoot, up to today. No infrastructure, no funds...just desire, and pride...We had many excellent athletes (cricket, football, track) in the past(not much swimmers true), high public interest, participation, and involvement....1 Oval, 1 skinner park, bunch a lil patches and street football...wel that was then, we have to keep up with the rest of the world (jones)

Yet building a Cathedrall, won't gaurantee yuh a place in heaven. Won't mean yuh Holy. Hell it might not even mean yuh is a good fella. but intially people go come and see it..

In my opinion our young atheletes require more modern coaching, i.e. training, nutrition, psychological development, and proper home nuturing and parent involvement. Then somewhere to practice it further.
.........

Is funny they spending so much on infrustructure but barely wanted to give 1% of it to actually run de programs that would use the facilities.
If they spend half that amount and use the other half to support the sporting programs (with auditing and accountability for every purchase) we might see some improvement in sport....administrative and on the field.

dcs yuh thinkin,,,the Hasely Crawford when first built was problems...all kinda fancy equipment, training and treatment...but after all was acquired...the Government couldn't afford the staff to utilize and run any kind of programs out of it. Just like building 5 stadia and barely paying upkeep, so yuh go turn around and add a another brand new complex...

Sub1, i don't care how the f**k they spend the money, but doh light it and blow smoke up people ass. Transportation, easy access to the people who will be using it, programs staff, technical, maintenence, environs. Fella yuh doh just build a School and people walk into it and they learn. There is a yearly cost from Janitor to Program Director, equipment maintenance and replacement, food services, cleaning services, security...Think before yuh start trying to insult people, nah. I not about that. Yuh know what these concerned business do or don't do for sport. Yuh have any idea if people close down they business and leave, what the socio-economic situation will be...I don't ...
Open my mind and grow...really...what causing you to be constantly typin stuff so people will think you foolish so? the internet? something personal? if yuh wha chat personally, I don't mind helping yuh out bredda...buh doh expect meh to delve into cussing and fighting yuh down, bout who wise and smart and who chupid....it have millions wiser and smarter than plenty...I have met a few, and ah married one..so I accustome to being on the mentally weaker side, yet my strengths lie in seeing the big picture, and adaptaion to life....and focusing on sport and nothing else, is not the whole picture...but that is another story
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: maxg on May 12, 2019, 12:39:09 AM
Just saw the following on facebook, is it true ?

9th May, 2019
MEDIA RELEASE
PADARATH: ROWLEY SHAMELESSLY CONFIRMS LARA STADIUM HAS NO ACCREDITATION AFTER 2 YEARS. MORE $ TO BE SPENT TO MAKE STADIUM ICC COMPLIANT.

Princes Town MP, Barry Padarath described the admission of Prime Minister, Keith Rowley that the Brian Lara Stadium in Tarouba has no ICC accreditation as shameless, despite being opened 2 years ago. The Prime Minister made the admission at a PNM public meeting in Chaguanas on Tuesday.
Padarath said it was exactly two years ago that the stadium was opened with great fanfare and a promise of international cricket matches from members of the government. However up to this time the stadium has hosted more fetes and parties than cricket tournaments.
The Princes Town MP said that he took particular note of the Prime Minister's statements that additional work would have to be completed on the stadium before the International Cricket Council could grant accreditation. Padarath is calling on the Prime Minister to indicate the scope of works and the additional cost to taxpayers to now make the stadium compliant with International Standards.
The MP raised these issues prior to the opening of the stadium two years ago, however government failed to address these matters back then.
Padarath said that after the PNM spent over 1.3 Billion dollars on the Brian Lara Stadium, it was a slap in the face to the population to spend more after the stadium was opened without ICC accreditation. The Princes Town MP described this as incompetence and one of this countrys biggest corruption scandals.
The Princes Town MP said he was not surprised that after two years since being opened, the stadium did not have international accreditation, especially since one Minister was fired for allegations of sexual harassment at the Ministry and the other admitted that she knew nothing about sport. Therefore, there has been no real leadership for this project. However, the MP indicated that his most troubling concern was that more money would now have to be spent after the stadium was opened two years ago and after 1.3 billion dollars has already been spent.
Title: Re: Here is another white elephant
Post by: Deeks on May 12, 2019, 07:53:33 AM
No excuse from Rowley on this one!