Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: TriniCana on May 16, 2006, 09:31:22 PM
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GIRL, 4, RAPED AND KILLED
Child raped, slain
Richard Charan rcharan@trinidadexpress.com
Wednesday, May 17th 2006
Â
Chanadaye Basdeo, grandmother of four-year-old Amy Annamanthundo, reflects yesterday on life with her granddaughter. Amy was beaten to death on Monday night at her home (in background) in a squatting settlement near Harmony Hall, Marabella.
A four-year-old girl was tortured, raped, buggered and beaten on Monday night by two people she loved but no one answered little Amy Annamanthundo's screams.
Wrapped in a sheet soaked in blood oozing from her private parts, she was taken to hospital.
She was already dead when she got there.
Police were last night building a murder case against a woman who will be 19 years old next month. They already have evidence to charge a man in his 40s with murder.
The killing of Amy bears similarities to that of six-year-old Sean Luke, who was buggered to death in a canefield at Orange Valley, Central Trinidad in April.
On this occasion, however, several people knew of Amy's sad life, and at least one man claimed to have seen her tied up and being beaten in her family's home in a squatter settlement near Harmony Hall, Marabella, on the night she died.
The man, who did not want to be identified, said although he heard crying he did nothing because he thought a game was being played and that a doll was being beaten.
An autopsy at the Forensic Sciences Centre found that only Amy's face was spared from the torture she endured.
She died from multiple blunt force trauma from a beating that came from feet, fists and pieces of wood, police said.Before she died she was sexually assaulted and burnt over her body with lit cigarettes, the autopsy found.
Police also found evidence that have led them to believe that Amy was being sexually assaulted for some time.
The pathologist also found that Amy had a broken collarbone that was healing.
For the past year, Amy had lived at the broken-down house with people who were described as drug and alcohol addicted.
They could not be reached yesterday.
Before that, she was raised "from a baby" by her grandmother, Chanadaye Basdeo, until the police took her away and placed her in a home last year. She was returned to her mother after a court hearing.
Basdeo said she last saw Amy on May 7 when she had lunch with her to celebrate her fourth birthday.
The house where Amy died is a short walk from the Marabella Family Crisis Centre.
Ryan Hernandez, who lives in the area, said he saw the girl tumble down a staircase in the house in which she lived three days ago.
"She was screaming but nobody helped her," he said.
A neighbour, Sagan Maharaj, said he would often see the girl.
"She would be home late all hours of the night. No child supposed to get that kinda treatment. Children supposed to be your happiness," he said.
Maharaj said he heard "some sounds" coming from where Amy lived around 8.30 p.m. on Monday, but thought nothing of it "because people always fighting".
It was only early yesterday when homicide officers and detectives cordoned off the house that people knew something had happened.
Living a mile away at Mootoo Lands, Marabella, Amy's grandmother said she tried to make her granddaughter happy.
"From the time she was born, a pound-and-a-half, I mind she. When she was with me, she was happy. I don't know about when she leave here," Chanadaye Basdeo, 59, said.
"She could not talk much. She couldn't read or write. No kindergarten. Doctor said she would learn slow. But I did love her. I was her mother."
Amy spent five months at hospital after the police and social workers took her away, Basdeo said.
She said she spent every night with Amy, until she was removed to a home for children while a custody battle played out in court.
The woman in custody had two children who are dead-one when two days old, and the other at six months. She was said to be a brothel worker.
The man was described by police as the village thief who fought with residents and was disowned by his well-to-do family.
Basdeo witnessed the post- mortem of her granddaughter's body.
Police did not tell her how the infant died.
ASP Fitzgerald George is spearheading investigations.
Â
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Let them SWING.... >:(
I cyah stress on it no more...HANG dey mudda ass high man
steups
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Oh GOD !!!!
What the F**k going on...!!!
What they eating dong there ???
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Find de culprit shoot he C*nt on de spot doh ask no questions doh waste no jail space on him...
talk done..dat is de only way...des f*ckers have to know dey go die..have to deter dis shit
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Everything in Trini is a fad. One get rape now you hearing bout all sorts... Tell me..what the F**k they could get out of a 4 yr old. Them kinda people supposed to resist arrest...and get shot end of story. It ent have no human rights when come to them kinda ting.
It don't even make no sence...Old people doing it Young people doing it.
I sure sex not that hard to get in Trinidad...Go f***ing Villa, Dads Dan, No shame in that....
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Check dey Guardian.....
lemme go to work eh. meh day start off bad already :'(
http://www.guardian.co.tt/news1.html
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I with you on this one cana , hang them , i tired of this..
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Unless I read wrong
Is not a stranger do that, is the child own 'guardians'
Still just as heinous though
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Read this in the express and was hurt to the core. WHAT THE F#$% IS GOING ON!
THE ONLY THING I AM HAPPY ABOUT IS THAT SHE IS BACK IN THE HANDS OF GOD AND WILL NOT BE SUBJECT TO THIS EVIL
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Oh lawd...is there NO SAFE places for children anymore?
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???what are we doing to ourselves? Ah doh undersand this :'(
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The Bible speaks of the end on times and says shit like this gonna happen... i'm at a stage where stuff like this don't fase me no more and when one can reach this stage we know that our society is gone. We sit and watch shit like this talk bout it and nine days later we forget about it. (Research shows that the average amount of time any piece of news stays in hte Trini papers is 9 days)... Well until it hits home.
We need to make a cry a petition tuh de legal system... but how could we, if we have a set ah little boys with 3 -5 five subjects in de police force. If they mind could retain only three subjects how cud these dumb @sse$$ retain any thing about a crime.
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My moms retired as a Sargent in the Police force earlier this year. She was asked to stay until 60 but she told them no.. she said she cyar handle de folly that go on now in de force.. Man reaching late, no vehicles when matters come up cuz somebody joy riding in de police car or doing dey personal business. Mek it wuss jus muddahs day she was saying ashe glad she get out cuz de way them young boy stealing de weapons and shit
Meh peeps we have tuh pray, We country need it don't do it for your neighbour do it for yuh self cuz u ah trini too
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GAS DEM AN LIGHT DEY MUDDERC**TS!!!!!!
ah tired of dese animals continuin to roam d streets.
steups
bless!!
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Unless I read wrong
Is not a stranger do that, is the child own 'guardians'
Still just as heinous though
yuh eh read wrong,dem people real possessed,ah cannot comprehend how yuh could abuse ah sweet innocent child.i have two girls 9 and 2,everyday i does prayer fuh them,PEOPLE WE HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF OUR CHILDREN.NO CHILD DESERVE THIS.
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ya know something
I woulda buss ah jail on dey grandmother self.
You telling me she didn't know what dey situation in that house was before ?
You telling me she ain't seeing marks on dat child skin or burns from cigarettes
You telling me dat either dey man was she son or dey girl she daughter, that ain't realize that they were addicts and that place wasn't good for a 4 year old child ?
I'm sure she knows how to use ah phone and as right now know how to speak tur dey media. I'm sure she know where dey police station or dey hospital is. Why why why is it that its only when the worst happen you see action.
I'm waiting fur the blasted committee to come out and say "Trinibagians we hadda walk round dey savannah fur the crime of this country" Flash allyuh car light, wear Black on Friday.
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there is pictures of amy mother and de syphillitic fuk that took her life on de express.trust me dat fella,marlon king,will get it good while inside.
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there is pictures of amy mother and de syphillitic f**k that took her life on de express.trust me dat fella,marlon king,will get it good while inside.
mi know this fella.. But Mi nuh know sey him magga dung like dat now.. This yute and his breddas use to beat man jes for spite.. Nuff of his breddas is locked up now, and some even dead.. He used to be a real bad man I aint tripping.. One of mi friend use to ride wid Marlon. From bad man to this?? doh worry he go get it good in Jail. I going to hail up mi Partner now and inform him bout this Bullshit!!!!!!!
warmonga..
no trial mi sey fi hang him up high!!!!!!!!!!!!
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http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,37865.html
Cry children molested
Tuesday, May 23 2006
FOUR of the ten children housed at the Cry Foundation home, Claxton Bay, were sexually assaulted, police sources stated yesterday.
The medical examination conducted on the children on Friday last, revealed that a boy had been buggered and three girls sexually assaulted at the home.
Last week, police were forced to intervene, following a tip-off that the children were being sexually molested, by having them removed to the St Mary’s Children’s Home in Tacarigua. Yesterday, a police report stated that based on medical reports, two of the girls whose ages range between 12 to 14, were sexually assaulted. The report stated that a ten-year-old girl and 11-year-old boy, were about three weeks ago, sexually assaulted.
Police investigators have submitted the medical report to Acting Deputy Commissioner of Police Winston Cooper. Couva Senior Magistrate Marcia Ayers-Cesar on Friday granted an application petitioned by the police and medical social worker Vashti Raghbir, to make the Foundation’s ten children wards of the State. The order will expire on June 9. Attempts to speak to the home’s administrator were futile.
HORROR HOME
Two children raped, two molested at CRY facility
Richard Charan rcharan@trinidadexpress.com
Tuesday, May 23rd 2006
Four children removed by police last week from a home for abandoned and neglected children were found to have been raped or molested while there, police said yesterday.
Ten children were removed from the home last Thursday following complaints of molestation and filthy living conditions.
A medical examination of the children last Friday found that two girls, aged 12 and 14, had sexual intercourse recently.
A ten-year-old girl and 11-year-old boy had physical scars from their molestation.
The rape of the 12-year-old was reported to the St Margaret's Police Station three weeks ago but not investigated, the Daily Express was told.
Acting Deputy Commissioner, Operations, Winston Cooper, confirmed the report yesterday.
He said investigators were trying to determine when the sex attacks happened and who were the people responsible.
"Once we have the evidence, these people will face the courts," he said.
The abused children, given up by their parents, were living at Gracious Home, Claxton Bay, operated by the Care and Responsibility for Youth (CRY) organisation. The home re-opened four weeks ago, after receiving funding from corporate citizens.
Couva police officers moved in last week after discovering that the children had no adult supervision from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., had to walk for 45 minutes to get to school and crawled through a fence to get into the compound of the home.
A night-time caregiver at the home told police that the home had no running water, was overrun with roaches, rats and worms and had little food.
Insp Norbert Sookram ordered that the children be immediately removed after investigating the home.
The children are now at a children's home in Tacarigua.
Police plan to question them.
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=160951833
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SACRAMENTO - The state Legislature is about to weigh in on a question that stirs impassioned debate among moms and dads: Should parents spank their children?
Assembly woman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View, wants to outlaw spanking children up to 3 years old. If she succeeds, California would become the first state in the nation to explicitly ban parents from smacking their kids.
Making a swat on the behind a misdemeanor might seem a bit much for some -- and the chances of the idea becoming law appear slim, at best -- but Lieber begs to differ.
``I think it's pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child 3 years old or younger,'' Lieber said. ``Is it OK to whip a 1-year-old or a 6-month-old or a newborn?''
The bill, which is still being drafted, will be written broadly, she added, prohibiting ``any striking of a child, any corporal punishment, smacking, hitting, punching, any of that.'' Lieber said it would be a misdemeanor, punishable by up to a year in jail or a fine up to $1,000, although a legal expert advising her on the proposal said first-time offenders would probably only have to attend parenting classes.
The idea is encountering skepticism even before it's been formally introduced. Beyond the debate among child psychologists -- many of whom believe limited spanking can be effective -- the bill is sure to face questions over how practical it is to enforce and opposition from some legislators who generally oppose what they consider ``nanny government.''
``Where do you stop?'' asked Assemblyman Chuck DeVore, R-Irvine, who said he personally agrees children under 3 shouldn't be spanked but has no desire to make it the law. ``At what point are we going to say we should pass a bill that every parent has to read a minimum of 30 minutes every night to their child? This is right along those same lines.''
One San Jose mother of three said she believes spanking is a poor way to discipline children, but she also wondered whether a legislative ban makes sense. Should a mom who slaps her misbehaving kid in the supermarket, she asked, be liable for a crime?
``If my 6-year-old doesn't put his clothes in the hamper, I'm not going to whack him. He just won't get his clothes washed,'' said Peggy Hertzberg, 38, who teaches parenting classes at the YWCA. ``I think instead of banning spanking, parents need to learn different ways of disciplining and redirecting their children.''
Lieber conceived the idea while chatting with a family friend and legal expert in children's issues worldwide. The friend, Thomas Nazario, said that while banning spanking might seem like a radical step for the United States, more than 10 European countries already do so. Sweden was the first, in 1979.
Nazario said there's no good rationale for hitting a child under 3, so the state should draw a ``bright line'' in the law making it clear.
``Why do we allow parents to hit a little child and not someone their own size?'' asked Nazario, a professor at the University of San Francisco Law School. ``Everyone in the state is protected from physical violence, so where do you draw the line? To take a child and spank his little butt until he starts crying, some people would define that as physical violence.''
It's unclear how a spanking ban would be enforced. Most slapping, after all, happens in the confines of a home, and most children up to age 3 aren't capable of reporting it.
Doctors, social workers and others who believe a child has been abused are required by law to report it to authorities. Nazario said he and Lieber are still debating whether to treat slapping the same way, or simply to encourage those who witness it to report it. But in either case, said Lieber, the law ``would allow people who view a beating to say, `Excuse me, that's against the law.' ''
Experts in child psychology disagree over whether spanking is a legitimate or effective way for parents to discipline their children. Professor Robert Larzelere, who has studied child discipline for 30 years, said his research shows spanking is fine, as long as it's used sparingly and doesn't escalate to abuse.
``If it's used in a limited way,'' the Oklahoma State University professor said, ``it can be more effective than almost any other type of punishment.'' He added that children 18 months old or younger shouldn't be spanked at all, because they can't understand why it's happening.
As for Lieber's proposal, the professor said: ``I think this proposal is not just a step too far, it's a leap too far. At least from a scientific perspective there really isn't any research to support the idea that this would make things better for children.''
But Lieber is optimistic that lawmakers will find her proposal hard to resist. For the record, she does not have children and says she was not slapped as a child. But she does have a cat named Snoop, which her veterinarian told her never to hit.
``And if you never hit a cat,'' Lieber said, ``you should never hit a kid.''
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never beat ah child
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only in america yes :-\
when are dey going to pass ah legislation for parents abuse???
wha age should you stop the child from hitting parents and cussing them?
so doh beat err sorry ah mean spank the child until he/she reaches 3 ?
well den dat go hadda be child abuse...that is 3 years of built up anger..datz jail.
americans need to know the differences between, scolding, ABUSE and discipling a child.
furthermore i want to see a trini child tell he trini mudda he going and call dey poilce cause she clout him....ah sure she would get 2 plane tickets, take him back to trinidad, cut he ass and den back to america.
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Dem men real stupid. In NY my sista was getting trouble from she children and dey call de cops on her. When dey show up and my sista tell dem what is de scene dem police tell she dat she could beat dem jus doh kill dem LOL :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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allya HAVE TO watch dis video of Russell Peters (http://www.russellpeters.com/), a Canadian comedian
Immigrant parents and beating kids :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzKHQX59Wso
"somebody goin an get a hurt real bad" :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
it IS funny, but I have to say I hope it does not trivialise this serious situation
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for dey life ah me ah cyah understand dey meaning ah "time out"
go to your bedroom and stay dey fur 5 hours until ya know how to behave ya self..
but yet in dey bedroom have TV, DVD, playstation, cellphone, computer and Ipod.
you go out wid dem, dey ready to throw tantrum and embarrass ya tail....turning around with ah grin telling everybody "oh he just upset".
gone into dey mall and he decide he going and throw down all dey people ting off dey shelf cause he ain't get "call of duty" game cause it done... den he start to bawl down dey place, den you like ah jackass stand up dere saying "doh cry harry..mummy would get you icecream"
LOOK NAH >:(
All it taking is one ah your eye meeting up with both ah he own...no words, but ah sure he'll get dey message for the activity dat coming tur he tail when he reach home.
How much ah we get cutarse and survived to see another day. My mother didn't scold me because she was venting out frustration or she was an abusive woman...she cut meh ass cause I useta fight and just plain bad in school. BUT AH STOP after dey 3rd cut arse tho. :'(
good memories yes... ;D
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What they fail to realise is that a cutass cannot be distributed for the slightest whim and fancy. The child will get immune. Any child dat i responsible hadda be prepared to cut dey cards straight or be prepared for a cutass. I will talk to you let you know...dont do that....or else you will get licks. When i pull that belt...i explaining why yuh ass going and get cut now.....and den i delivering on my promise. Simple. Follow the rules.....things nice. Dont....well....yuh eh go enjoy it. Licks in conjunction with other measures are very effective in my opinion. Then they wonder why children acting up so. No sense of knowing order and knowing their place. Then again....a good bit of parents same way...and you cant expect a goat to make a sheep............
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allyuh want anyone hit allyuh?
why hit ah child?
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What they fail to realise is that a cutass cannot be distributed for the slightest whim and fancy. The child will get immune. Any child dat i responsible hadda be prepared to cut dey cards straight or be prepared for a cutass. I will talk to you let you know...dont do that....or else you will get licks. When i pull that belt...i explaining why yuh ass going and get cut now.....and den i delivering on my promise. Simple. Follow the rules.....things nice. Dont....well....yuh eh go enjoy it. Licks in conjunction with other measures are very effective in my opinion. Then they wonder why children acting up so. No sense of knowing order and knowing their place. Then again....a good bit of parents same way...and you cant expect a goat to make a sheep............
your technique is effective ... but here is de question
1) if yuh coud achieve de same outcome without a cutass .. would you consider dat alternative?
<edit> .. .corporal punishment says that violence is acceptable in situations defined by a person in authority. de child has no say and becomes de victim.
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allyuh want anyone to hit allyuh?
why hit ah child?
that right there is the defining decision that MANY adults who beat their children have to answer, No PHDesque type of debate, just very simple and to the point.
Thanks for that TT
some do take it beyond cruelty........I am sure we all know some situations
examples are, calpets, pulling their ears, and slaps which are just unnecessary most times.
people need a licence to drive a car, yet ANYONE can be a parent
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Bourbon well said
give me an alternative pecan cause i would really want to know.
"time out" not working
therapy not working
And parents don't have the time to sit down with their kids anymore. both working, both have their own mental fatigue to deal with. One parent in the study, the other making supper. Both have to get up early in the morning.
The older generation in this forum...none of allyuh cyah tell me allyuh didn't get a cutarse for answering back, coming home late, cussing and not cleaning up your room. In your time, what did you call it: abuse of discipline ??
pecan change meh way of thinking sir
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not because my mother beat me mean it was right and i never get abused eh, but licks cyar be good fuh chirren
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give me an alternative...
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give me an alternative...
so yuh want alternative?
how many times yuh gets licks?
so if was effective yuh woulda have tuh get one cutarse////
see dat?
it eh dat effective ent?
beating a child inflicts pain and also fear, ot unnecessary tools in behaviour modification.
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http://parenting.ivillage.com/tp/tpbehavior/0,,njb0-1,00.html
Top 10 Ways to Handle Discipline Dilemmas
1. Be firm and be kind.
A child is more likely to hear what you're saying if you use a neutral tone.
2. Pause.
There's nothing wrong with saying, "I'm too angry to deal with this now. We'll talk about it later."
3. Teach your kids.
Instead of punishing a child for misbehaving, think in terms of teaching him to behave. "I don't like it when you leave your skateboard in the front hall. Next time, please put it in the mudroom. How can I help you remember?"
4. Be positive.
Instead of saying, "How many times do I need to ask you to brush your teeth?" Say, "Go brush your teeth and let me know when you've finished so I can tuck you in."
5. Give explanations, not threats.
By giving your child a brief explanation of why she needs to do as she's told, you give her a reason to behave.
6. Refuse to get angry.
Instead of focusing on your child's misbehavior and working yourself into a lather, think of each conflict as an opportunity to guide and direct your child.
7. Give incentives.
Inspire your child to cooperate with phrases like, "It's time to go. Why don't you go down the slide one more time and then let's hustle. I want to get home in time to make cookies."
8. Be flexible.
If your little one asks, "Can I just finish watching this show before we go?" be reasonable. If you have the time to spare, make room for your child's requests. This is a great way for kids to learn about the art of negotiation.
9. Drop out of power struggles.
Nothing is as frustrating or less productive as having a showdown with your little one. Invite your child to cooperate by saying something like, "I've got a problem. I want you to wear a clean shirt and you insist on wearing the same old one every day. How can we solve this problem?" Your child is more likely to cooperate if he comes up with the solution.
10. Be smart.
Parents will often deal with problems in a set manner, even if their approach isn't helping. If what you're doing isn't working, find a more effective way to handle the problem. Tip: It's much easier to change your approach than it is to change your child. Ask yourself, "What can I do differently that will inspire a better reaction from my child?"
TIP: Remember these three important rules about punishment:
Don't assign a punishment when you're angry
Don't use punishment as revenge.
A more severe punishment is not necessarily a better one
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http://parenting.ivillage.com/tp/tpbehavior/0,,njb0-1,00.html
Top 10 Ways to Handle Discipline Dilemmas
1. Be firm and be kind.
A child is more likely to hear what you're saying if you use a neutral tone.
2. Pause.
There's nothing wrong with saying, "I'm too angry to deal with this now. We'll talk about it later."
3. Teach your kids.
Instead of punishing a child for misbehaving, think in terms of teaching him to behave. "I don't like it when you leave your skateboard in the front hall. Next time, please put it in the mudroom. How can I help you remember?"
4. Be positive.
Instead of saying, "How many times do I need to ask you to brush your teeth?" Say, "Go brush your teeth and let me know when you've finished so I can tuck you in."
5. Give explanations, not threats.
By giving your child a brief explanation of why she needs to do as she's told, you give her a reason to behave.
6. Refuse to get angry.
Instead of focusing on your child's misbehavior and working yourself into a lather, think of each conflict as an opportunity to guide and direct your child.
7. Give incentives.
Inspire your child to cooperate with phrases like, "It's time to go. Why don't you go down the slide one more time and then let's hustle. I want to get home in time to make cookies."
8. Be flexible.
If your little one asks, "Can I just finish watching this show before we go?" be reasonable. If you have the time to spare, make room for your child's requests. This is a great way for kids to learn about the art of negotiation.
9. Drop out of power struggles.
Nothing is as frustrating or less productive as having a showdown with your little one. Invite your child to cooperate by saying something like, "I've got a problem. I want you to wear a clean shirt and you insist on wearing the same old one every day. How can we solve this problem?" Your child is more likely to cooperate if he comes up with the solution.
10. Be smart.
Parents will often deal with problems in a set manner, even if their approach isn't helping. If what you're doing isn't working, find a more effective way to handle the problem. Tip: It's much easier to change your approach than it is to change your child. Ask yourself, "What can I do differently that will inspire a better reaction from my child?"
TIP: Remember these three important rules about punishment:
Don't assign a punishment when you're angry
Don't use punishment as revenge.
A more severe punishment is not necessarily a better one
TT . thanks for dat.
Cana, these are the alternatives .. not 'time outs'
All those items focus on resolving de issue at hand without force. But just as importantly, all of these alternative involve communcation with de chile - paying attention to de chile. A chile would prefer licks dan no attention and will do things to get mommy and daddy attention if it is otherwise lacking.
But I also have to admit it a lot easier to parent when one parent at home.
Cana, is it easy? not all de time for the very reasons you cited. Parents are too tired, too rushed, too stressed to pause and tink and to negotiate and to reason and listen. So it easier to give dem licks like fire and call it a dey.
De problem with violence is that it teaches us dat de man wid the bigger stick will prevail.
And dat is how the society developed. The strongest warrior became the tribal chief.
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De problem with violence is that it teaches us dat de man wid the bigger stick will prevail.
And dat is how the society developed. The strongest warrior became the tribal chief.
so ya tellin me dat ALL republican presidents mus ah get some serious licks den :rotfl: :devil: :rotfl: :devil:
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What they fail to realise is that a cutass cannot be distributed for the slightest whim and fancy. The child will get immune. Any child dat i responsible hadda be prepared to cut dey cards straight or be prepared for a cutass. I will talk to you let you know...dont do that....or else you will get licks. When i pull that belt...i explaining why yuh ass going and get cut now.....and den i delivering on my promise. Simple. Follow the rules.....things nice. Dont....well....yuh eh go enjoy it. Licks in conjunction with other measures are very effective in my opinion. Then they wonder why children acting up so. No sense of knowing order and knowing their place. Then again....a good bit of parents same way...and you cant expect a goat to make a sheep............
your technique is effective ... but here is de question
1) if yuh coud achieve de same outcome without a cutass .. would you consider dat alternative?
<edit> .. .corporal punishment says that violence is acceptable in situations defined by a person in authority. de child has no say and becomes de victim.
Yes i would. I dont like beating. Really i dont. However it is effective. I got real licks in my time. My father used to sit me down....let me know why i getting my licks....and if i could justify why i should not get....well...i might get a reprieve. Also depending on the degree of the deed....it would be used in conjunction with other punishments. I would safely say no threat of punishment was greater than that of a cutass. Based on the mere fact that if i get ban.....well...i would go read or find something else to fill the void so it wasnt felt as much.
http://parenting.ivillage.com/tp/tpbehavior/0,,njb0-1,00.html
Top 10 Ways to Handle Discipline Dilemmas
1. Be firm and be kind.
A child is more likely to hear what you're saying if you use a neutral tone.
2. Pause.
There's nothing wrong with saying, "I'm too angry to deal with this now. We'll talk about it later."
3. Teach your kids.
Instead of punishing a child for misbehaving, think in terms of teaching him to behave. "I don't like it when you leave your skateboard in the front hall. Next time, please put it in the mudroom. How can I help you remember?"
4. Be positive.
Instead of saying, "How many times do I need to ask you to brush your teeth?" Say, "Go brush your teeth and let me know when you've finished so I can tuck you in."
5. Give explanations, not threats.
By giving your child a brief explanation of why she needs to do as she's told, you give her a reason to behave.
6. Refuse to get angry.
Instead of focusing on your child's misbehavior and working yourself into a lather, think of each conflict as an opportunity to guide and direct your child.
7. Give incentives.
Inspire your child to cooperate with phrases like, "It's time to go. Why don't you go down the slide one more time and then let's hustle. I want to get home in time to make cookies."
8. Be flexible.
If your little one asks, "Can I just finish watching this show before we go?" be reasonable. If you have the time to spare, make room for your child's requests. This is a great way for kids to learn about the art of negotiation.
9. Drop out of power struggles.
Nothing is as frustrating or less productive as having a showdown with your little one. Invite your child to cooperate by saying something like, "I've got a problem. I want you to wear a clean shirt and you insist on wearing the same old one every day. How can we solve this problem?" Your child is more likely to cooperate if he comes up with the solution.
10. Be smart.
Parents will often deal with problems in a set manner, even if their approach isn't helping. If what you're doing isn't working, find a more effective way to handle the problem. Tip: It's much easier to change your approach than it is to change your child. Ask yourself, "What can I do differently that will inspire a better reaction from my child?"
TIP: Remember these three important rules about punishment:
Don't assign a punishment when you're angry
Don't use punishment as revenge.
A more severe punishment is not necessarily a better one
All that nice...and it has some valid points....however techniques like this hardly are effective on grown adults....much less children who are naturally selfish. How many of us would really obey traffic laws etc if there wasnt a possibility of repercussions? My analysis point by point
1. Be firm and be kind.
A child is more likely to hear what you're saying if you use a neutral tone.
Very Valid. I try not to bawl at my little brother when i hadda administer discipline. Just yesterday i had to go out and before i went to bathe...he went to play game even though he had homework. I told him go do his homework and then play. When i was ready to leave...he still playing game. I warned him...if i come home and his homework not done correctly.....i would beat him because i told him to do his homework...and that more important than any game. He call me bout twice when i was out to make sure the way he was doing the questions were correct. The immediate knowledge of an impending cutass has a very telling effect. How many of us would just grab a pot when hot? The knowledge that yuh might feel some unwelcome pain causes you to think twice and approach the suituation carefully.
2. Pause.
There's nothing wrong with saying, "I'm too angry to deal with this now. We'll talk about it later."
Exactly. This prevents things from going too far. Dont beat when yuh vex.
3. Teach your kids.
Instead of punishing a child for misbehaving, think in terms of teaching him to behave. "I don't like it when you leave your skateboard in the front hall. Next time, please put it in the mudroom. How can I help you remember?"
4. Be positive.
Instead of saying, "How many times do I need to ask you to brush your teeth?" Say, "Go brush your teeth and let me know when you've finished so I can tuck you in."
Mamaguay talk. You will tell children that...it eh no surity that they will even take you on. Ah mean.....i done dont want to brush my teeth.....and you tellin me that after i do that i hadda go and sleep...yet another unwelcome thing?? What dat doing for me??
5. Give explanations, not threats.
By giving your child a brief explanation of why she needs to do as she's told, you give her a reason to behave.
Yes...an explanation often comes with all warnings of a cutass. I tell my brother...dont jump on the chairs cuz yuh will wear out the fabric...and if he does...i go have to beat him. Two days later......he jumping on the chair again. What supposed to happen now? The fabric on the chair is of no real consequence to him.....so why would he care? Children live for the short term....certainly not the long term. If they dont see any real way they would be affected in the short term...they dont really care. Why i go brush my teeth for...even doh you tell me dey go rotten and fall out? They here now ent? How you so sure dat go happen?
7. Give incentives.
Inspire your child to cooperate with phrases like, "It's time to go. Why don't you go down the slide one more time and then let's hustle. I want to get home in time to make cookies."
Yeh....you cant jus demand without explanation.
8. Be flexible.
If your little one asks, "Can I just finish watching this show before we go?" be reasonable. If you have the time to spare, make room for your child's requests. This is a great way for kids to learn about the art of negotiation.
Really? Now....this contradicts the first point saying to be firm. Plus this makes the child think that no matter the command...that they can negotiate their way out of it....and detracting the respect that a parent should have. Negotiations kinda dangerous....in my opinion. Depending on the request...i might consider it.
9. Drop out of power struggles.
Nothing is as frustrating or less productive as having a showdown with your little one. Invite your child to cooperate by saying something like, "I've got a problem. I want you to wear a clean shirt and you insist on wearing the same old one every day. How can we solve this problem?" Your child is more likely to cooperate if he comes up with the solution.
:rotfl:
Be serious. You expect the child to say....well....i go wear a clean one? If the child wanted to wear a clean one in the first place why would he give trouble. Children doh attach consequences to their actions naturally. They need to be taught the ability to do that. In fact....grown adults doh have that ability sometimes.
10. Be smart.
Parents will often deal with problems in a set manner, even if their approach isn't helping. If what you're doing isn't working, find a more effective way to handle the problem. Tip: It's much easier to change your approach than it is to change your child. Ask yourself, "What can I do differently that will inspire a better reaction from my child?"
Licks for me is the last resort...or close to last. There isnt much else you can do beyond licks. Hence the reason for not dishing it out for any and everything as the child would get immune. I talk to you once..tell you dont do it.....tell you again....dont do it or else yuh go get a cutass......do it again....yuh cutass book.
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alright breds...cut arse it is den!
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I take the day off just to read allyuh post in this thread :devil: aye ah joking eh, nex ting somebody call meh boss and say cana home playing dey fool >:(
I think i'll be in this thread for the day....jus reading and simulating the thoughts and ideas of my fellow forumities.
Bourbon as usual you took your time to explain :beermug:
ah coming back
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ya doh do that anyway :devil: :devil:
Jez like de rez of us ;D
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give me an alternative...
so yuh want alternative?
how many times yuh gets licks?
so if was effective yuh woulda have tuh get one cutarse////
see dat?
it eh dat effective ent?
beating a child inflicts pain and also fear, ot unnecessary tools in behaviour modification.
One flaw in this argument. I never got licks at home, my mom preferred to take away something I liked to do, eg tv, sports, etc. She had to punish me more than once, but she would argue that the punishment was effective since most times I'd get punished for the same offence once. Children get into trouble so whether it is licks or some alternate punishment it's effectiveness should not be measured by how often it is used. At least that's how I see it.
I happen to agree that a parent should find other ways to enforce discipline besides beating, but once done in a controlled manner (and until I have children of my own) will not critisize a parent who does use it.
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aye i entitled to play dey fool at least 3 times per day ya know
getting back to dey people thread.
There is a long scope for the word "beating". From 1 lash to 2 mins of licks that will leave the child brusied and battered.
A parent's stress and frustration today is not the same as 10 years ago...the children today is not the same as 10 years ago. We all know that.
People go over the top by locking the kids in cages, no meals, handcuff them to a pole, throwing them against a wall. THAT IS CHILD ABUSE in my opinion. I didn't see this in no movie, I believe it was FOX did a documentary on abusive parents.
A slap, clout, pinch even the occasional ruler and belt on thei backside will leave no child emotionally unstable. I am not saying to beat the child into a unconscious state for his every single wrong doing. The child does something wrong, you speak to the child. He does it again, you speak to the child, this time sternly with a warning. That chlid has the option of either doing it again or listening. 70% of them will do it again....Bourbon said something similar and I agree with him.
I will have the relationship with my child that he/she knows they can come to me about anything and I will listen and let them know how I feel....that being said; I'm not your buddy, I'm your mother. You in my house, abide with my rules. If ya play dey ass, expect to be disciplined which will eventually turn out to be a cutarse providing your future actions.
thats my take on dis.
i hope allyuh continue with this thread....interesting :beermug:
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allya HAVE TO watch dis video of Russell Peters (http://www.russellpeters.com/), a Canadian comedian
Immigrant parents and beating kids :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzKHQX59Wso
"somebody goin an get a hurt real bad" :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
it IS funny, but I have to say I hope it does not trivialise this serious situation
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
that's a good clip
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SACRAMENTO - The state Legislature is about to weigh in on a question that stirs impassioned debate among moms and dads: Should parents spank their children?
Assembly woman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View, wants to outlaw spanking children up to 3 years old. If she succeeds, California would become the first state in the nation to explicitly ban parents from smacking their kids.
If yuh notice this woman is from my home town here. So we are heavy in the debate. I have to agree with Bourbon. Communication with the child comes first and they must know what they are getting punished for. They get a couple of smacks now and then, but at this stage they are old enough to understand when we communicate the rules. When a child is young and can't speak yet and they are touching something dangerous, the only way to get them to understand the danger is to tap them on the hand hard enough for them to realize "that doesn't feel good"
As they get older licks are dealt out only when explained and when they are in a particularly obstinate mood and demonstrating willful disobediance. Utimately the goal is to phase out corporal punishment and stand on effective communication. To that end TT's list as some great points.
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A slap, clout, pinch even the occasional ruler and belt on thei backside will leave no child emotionally unstable. I am not saying to beat the child into a unconscious state for his every single wrong doing. The child does something wrong, you speak to the child. He does it again, you speak to the child, this time sternly with a warning. That chlid has the option of either doing it again or listening. 70% of them will do it again....Bourbon said something similar and I agree with him.
Good point. That's what I meant earlier about controlled. Punishment, in any form, if controlled and well thought out will be effective. Of course that is my opinion and I have no children, I can only speak from my own experiences of being punished by my mother.
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SACRAMENTO - The state Legislature is about to weigh in on a question that stirs impassioned debate among moms and dads: Should parents spank their children?
Assembly woman Sally Lieber, D-Mountain View, wants to outlaw spanking children up to 3 years old. If she succeeds, California would become the first state in the nation to explicitly ban parents from smacking their kids.
If yuh notice this woman is from my home town here. So we are heavy in the debate. I have to agree with Bourbon. Communication with the child comes first and they must know what they are getting punished for. They get a couple of smacks now and then, but at this stage they are old enough to understand when we communicate the rules. When a child is young and can't speak yet and they are touching something dangerous, the only way to get them to understand the danger is to tap them on the hand hard enough for them to realize "that doesn't feel good"As they get older licks are dealt out only when explained and when they are in a particularly obstinate mood and demonstrating willful disobediance. Utimately the goal is to phase out corporal punishment and stand on effective communication. To that end TT's list as some great points.
How about removing dangerous objects out of the child's reach? Or putting plugs int the sockets that are within the child's reach?
Hitting a child can never, ever be ok. Under no circumstances should we be hitting anyone, child or adult. What prevents society from whipping you if you break laws? Cheat o yuh taxes, run ah red light, speeding etc.? he difference is you have rights...ent?
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You know the parent 2 fingers tap on the child's hand, and the "don't do that again" statement that comes during or after the activity. TrueTrini you saying even that is not allowed?
You know what...it all boils down to parents not spending more time with their children - or infact cannot spend time with their children because of their schedules.
There are many people who shouldn't have kids...mainly because they don't know have the mental, financial, emotional and spiritual capacity to take care of themselves far less their child.
There are also some people who were brought up with a whip or pot pan dangling in front their faces 24-7. Some just don't know the differences between scolding, beating and abusing a child or anyone as a matter of fact.
You all want to know what can scar a child emotonally and mentally for life. VERBAL abuse. We all survived the beating/scoldings and live to tell the tale, but not many people surived the verbal abuse.
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the two taps as you describe it is ok....
e-man mentioned: "it does not feel good," see the difference?
all kind of child abuse is reprehensible. verbal, emotional and physical, thing is they usually accompany each other.
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the two taps as you describe it is ok....
e-man mentioned: "it does not feel good," see the difference?
all kind of child abuse is reprehensible. verbal, emotional and physical, thing is they usually accompany each other.
anything negative does feel good ??? i doh understand your question T
but sometimes you have to put aside your true feelings, and do what you have to do...right ?
ah scared to ask bout teachers beating or discipline your chile.
I would prefer dey suspend meh chile dan to beat him. You call me and tell me what he did, and I go take dey necessary action.
I don't know what frame of mind you coming to work/school in, den you take out ya frustration on my chile and land him in hospital.
These days Ms and Sir is 19 years old and jus come out ah Teachers training college with dey degree minus the classroom experience.
Back in the old school there were dey "trainee" teacher that came into the classroom for 3 months, it was the practical part of their studies. I can't remember the correct term used to discribe them.
Anyway do they do that anymore ?
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the two taps as you describe it is ok....
e-man mentioned: "it does not feel good," see the difference?
all kind of child abuse is reprehensible. verbal, emotional and physical, thing is they usually accompany each other.
anything negative does feel good ??? i doh understand your question T
but sometimes you have to put aside your true feelings, and do what you have to do...right ?
thats just it, it should not be anything negative, it should be re-direction. Besides I interpreted his statement to mean slaps on the hand to deter the child, not a little pat like how yuh does copliment someone. The two tas would be enough to make the child wince at least, otherwise why would a parent do it i the first place? It is a form of corporal punishment, which I am totally against.
Make the house child proof as the say by removing dangerous objects and put safety latches on cupboards etc. and safety plugs in sockets.
No need to lash a child.
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To put in my 2 piece...If you ask me, my first instinct answer would be doh beat, I don't like it as a way to descipline a child, but sometimes dat is the only way a child will stop doing what they doing.
I grew up in the era where you get licks for every and anything...and to tell you the truth ah did not like it, not then and not now, it just brought fear and resentment towards the beater. That is sending the wrong signals to the child and ah see it as a form of violence. For instance if your child always getting in fight in school or getting in trouble for hitting other students, how you go descipline dat child? by hitting him some hard clouts? 2 wrongs doh make ah right. So we have to look at other ways to descipline in ah non violent way. But I must admit some children really deserve ah good licking ;D buh for me it doh seems right.
Big Up!
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doh get me wrong allyuh...i really enjoying dis conversation bad. And I know we all won't agree on it, but I still appreciate the thoughts.
TT a question to you.
and I hope I word it properly.
your child, lets say age 10 calls you "that" word that you so dislike, that you said you will *"mash up "anybody ass if they ever call you dat. What would you do or say to that child ?
Would you walk away and punch in a wall ?
*not your exacts words*
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here's a biblical perspective taken from: http://groups.google.com/group/Atheism-vs-Christianity/browse_thread/thread/f5df1f4d170797f?hl=en
From the New International Version (NIV):
Proverbs 13:24
24 He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
Proverbs 20:30
30 Blows and wounds cleanse away evil, and beatings purge the inmost being.
Proverbs 23:13-14
13 Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die.
14 Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death
Exodus 21:15
15 Anyone who attacks (or kills) his father or his mother must be put to death.
Leviticus 20:9
9 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him,
19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town.
20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard."
21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
Mark 7:9-13
9 And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!
10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
11 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban' (that is, a gift devoted to God),
12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother.
13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."
Matthew 15:4-7
4 For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'
6 he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
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i think the last few verses suggest that a family's first obligation is to the community which sustains them and then to their children. so any "indiscipline" which could weaken the community is intolerable.
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oh gaum
quotes from the Bible
I know many people around the world will use use such information to further their agenda, but as we have seen in many Relegious organisations, the outcome freguently is never positive.
Some even mention DEATH........."'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.".........WOW
i am sure it is a mis-interpretation of the people who translated from the original text
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yuh know wen ah see dey head line ah thought yuh was askin if man do or dont beat dey woman, because yuh know some ah dem doz say if yuh dont be mae yuh dont lov mae. buh since yuh talking buh chilren yuh ah to gah dem ah lil ring ears ,pinch somtimes , and wen dey reach teenager is roling pin ,pot spoon , ah shoe , or piece ah 2 by 4 or dey go make yuh shame oui .
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Ribbs wha happen dey sar ;D
umm all i jus want is to slap dey litle scamp for coming home late from school ya know and tiefin milo..nothing else.
Ribbs pull out bible yes
Proverbs 13:24
24 He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
I couldn't have said that any better.
but but dey rest ah dem harsh boy. ;D
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Good Topic ...
TT and I agree ... under no circumstances is it OK to hit a child ..
Is corporal punishment effective? yuh read some posts and they argue Yes. Many chirren who were brought up where corporal was de norm grow up to be good ppl and contributors to society and dey would argue dat corporal is appropriate. Yuh cyar argue wid that.
But i still come back to alternatives .. .de examples dat TT listed will work if applied consistently.
Chirren under 3 doh understand .. but if yuh hit dem dey go soon associate de pain wid their behaviour.
Dat is called a Learned Response and it have nuttin to do wid understanding why dey shudden do someting.
Rats running a maze may get a electric shock if dey turn left instead of right. And dey soon learn not to turn left.
Psy 101 - Learned Response
But chirren are not rats (except de Rat ;D). So under three, yuh remove dey chile from de situation or yuh chile proof de house until dey can be taught why dey must not touch the stove element.
I leken corporal punishment to smoking ...
Many smokers never get cancer .. but statistically, dey run de risk.
Many victims of corporal punishment grow up to be law abiding citizens and contribute to society and carry no emotional scars or baggage. But yuh still run de risk dat some victims of corporal punishment will be traumatized or look back at their chilehood with bad memories of getting cutarse.
So my point .... if you can eliminate dat risk, why not do so??? You have nutting to lose.
Do NOT confuse de absence of a cutarse with de absence of discipline.
De alternatives do work ..
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yuh know wen ah see dey head line ah thought yuh was askin if man do or dont beat dey woman, because yuh know some ah dem doz say if yuh dont be mae yuh dont lov mae. buh since yuh talking buh chilren yuh ah to gah dem ah lil ring ears ,pinch somtimes , and wen dey reach teenager is roling pin ,pot spoon , ah shoe , or piece ah 2 by 4 or dey go make yuh shame oui .
zulu you ain't easy nah
but to me when he reach teenager and all respect for meh house and me gone.... is time to find ya own place. cause ah tell ya, if ah trying to discipline you and ya think ah hitting me or answering me back, we go have a misunderstanding and furniture go move. Plain and simple.
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oh gaum
quotes from the Bible
I know many people around the world will use use such information to further their agenda, but as we have seen in many Relegious organisations, the outcome freguently is never positive.
Some even mention DEATH........."'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.".........WOW
i am sure it is a mis-interpretation of the people who translated from the original text
well i thought this might be useful - some of the posters here reminding us that God is the Boss, so i just scouting the religious angle. ;)
i doh like to think a child could be naturally wicked. i think wickedness is overwhelmingly learned. and beating a child is like trying to bend back a tree that didn't have a stake to guide its early development.
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I reading a book called "The Sins of Scripture" by John Spong
He devotes a whole section to " The Bible and Children" and discuses all dem quotes Ribbit listed above.
Some excepts from his book and some of my thoughts .....
"Violence is always Violent, whether the victim be a child or an adult" -- why is it OK to hit a chile but if yuh hit a man in de street, it is called assault?
As you look through history, there were four classes of people, besides chirren, who were subject to corporal punishment:
1) Adult prisoners
2) Slaves
3) Women
4) Members of Religious Orders
What these groups all had in common was dat they were defenseless and had no rights.
Yuh might argue that de first category deserve to have no rights .. but dat is a different topic for a different thread
But what about de other three? At various points in Western History, it was OK to hit slaves, womens and certain religious ppl.
So why is it OK to hit chirren who are essentially defenseless and have no right?
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doh get me wrong allyuh...i really enjoying dis conversation bad. And I know we all won't agree on it, but I still appreciate the thoughts.
TT a question to you.
and I hope I word it properly.
your child, lets say age 10 calls you "that" word that you so dislike, that you said you will *"mash up "anybody ass if they ever call you dat. What would you do or say to that child ?
Would you walk away and punch in a wall ?
*not your exacts words*
well it eh have no way in hell dat any child of mine will be using dat vernacular!
secondly, he/she will display proper respect, dat kinda shit would not be part of my household.
If he/she were to use that word, we would have a very serious discussion, serious indeed!
But by the time they reach that age they would have already known what is unacceptable in OUR household.
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well i thought this might be useful - some of the posters here reminding us that God is the Boss, so i just scouting the religious angle. ;)
ok cool
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well yes pecan... :beermug:
Many victims of corporal punishment grow up to be law abiding citizens and contribute to society and carry no emotional scars or baggage. -
I raise my hand to this...I ain't shame to say I got my share ah cutarse, cause I know I was bad. infact ah still bad but in a good way ;D My mother explained to me WHY i was going and get licks.
But yuh still run de risk dat some victims of corporal punishment will be traumatized or look back at their chilehood with bad memories of getting cutarse. - these people I considered them being abused. In my opinion, these are the ones that got the handcuff, the frying pan, being called 'stupid' and so on. At some point there was no reason for the beating...but they got it.
P for President :beermug:
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doh get me wrong allyuh...i really enjoying dis conversation bad. And I know we all won't agree on it, but I still appreciate the thoughts.
TT a question to you.
and I hope I word it properly.
your child, lets say age 10 calls you "that" word that you so dislike, that you said you will *"mash up "anybody ass if they ever call you dat. What would you do or say to that child ?
Would you walk away and punch in a wall ?
*not your exacts words*
well it eh have no way in hell dat any child of mine will be using dat vernacular!
secondly, he/she will display proper respect, dat kinda shit would not be part of my household.
If he/she were to use that word, we would have a very serious discussion, serious indeed!
But by the time they reach that age they would have already known what is unacceptable in OUR household.
actually my quesiton should have read "a" child. But I get the giff of what you saying.
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"Violence is always Violent, whether the victim be a child or an adult" -- why is it OK to hit a chile but if yuh hit a man in de street, it is called assault?
As you look through history, there were four classes of people, besides chirren, who were subject to corporal punishment:
1) Adult prisoners
2) Slaves
3) Women
4) Members of Religious Orders
What these groups all had in common was dat they were defenseless and had no rights.
Yuh might argue that de first category deserve to have no rights .. but dat is a different topic for a different thread
But what about de other three? At various points in Western History, it was OK to hit slaves, womens and certain religious ppl.
So why is it OK to hit chirren who are essentially defenseless and have no right?
very good point. suppose you driving and your vehicle gets hit by another, are you going to get out and hit the other driver...I think NOT...maybe in California, you might resort to road rage. ;)
it has always been a position of Power. Who has the BIGGEST STICK.
Take some countries in the world. Some are able to Invade other countries, but they would never be able to do the same thing within their own countries.
and in other countries there are still to this day many horrific things done ahgainst women. if you need some examples let me know
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Many victims of corporal punishment grow up to be law abiding citizens and contribute to society and carry no emotional scars or baggage. But yuh still run de risk dat some victims of corporal punishment will be traumatized or look back at their chilehood with bad memories of getting cutarse.
Nutsman, could you clrify the type of punishment you mean here , Thanks
i doh want to assume anything
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Ribbs wha happen dey sar ;D
umm all i jus want is to slap dey litle scamp for coming home late from school ya know and tiefin milo..nothing else.
Ribbs pull out bible yes
Proverbs 13:24
24 He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
I couldn't have said that any better.
but but dey rest ah dem harsh boy. ;D
well, Sister Mary Gertrude, since you are a woman of the cloth, i will trust your interpretation ;D
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well as a former school teacher and school administrator, I have seen my share of wonderfully blessed children and I have also seen the effects of abuse ( all kinds) on children.
No kind of abuse should be tolerated. Children want to please, I eh saying dey eh have natural bad-seeds eh, but inherently, dey real nice and wiling to please, to learn and to achieve.
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Many victims of corporal punishment grow up to be law abiding citizens and contribute to society and carry no emotional scars or baggage. But yuh still run de risk dat some victims of corporal punishment will be traumatized or look back at their chilehood with bad memories of getting cutarse.
Nutsman, could you clrify the type of punishment you mean here , Thanks
i doh want to assume anything
good point ... because we all have different definitions of corporal punishment ..
ah go use an example from "Sins of Scripture" by Spong
Late 1990's a task force in the Episcopal Diocese (Anglicans) of Newark brought forth a resolution for debate:
"Resolved, that there is no circumstance in which corporal punishment is appropriate as a method of disciplining children."
Well all kind a bacchanal break out ... nobody could agree for de same reasons presented in dis thread.
Examples of pro-corporal punishment included "my father beat me regularly and it made a man out of me"
whereas others said things like we shared "...a sense of being violated and humiliated in ways that were so deep they had never spoken of it until this debate.."
De only way de resolution got passed was to change de phrase "corporal punishment" to "injurious or humiliating treatments". No one who used corporal punishment believed that their actions were injurious or humiliating.
One person's "corporal punishment" is another person's "injurious or humiliating treatment".
My definition of corporal punishment is physically striking or emotionally abusing (or worse) a chile.
The use of corporal punishment has been validated by the Bible so in a sense, it is culturally acceptable. Then again, the Bible also validated slavery .......
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S.Africa arrests woman in Oprah school abuse case
Fri 2 Nov 2007, 15:38 GMT
[-] Text
JOHANNESBURG (Reuters) - South African police have arrested a former dormitory employee at Oprah Winfrey's leadership academy for girls on charges of abuse, including indecent acts.
At least seven alleged victims have submitted statements about the woman, police said.
"A former dormitory employee (27) has been arrested yesterday by the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences Unit on several charges of abuse," a statement from police spokesman Superintendent Lungelo Dlamini read.
"Several charges including alleged assault, indecent assault, crimen injuria and soliciting girls under age to perform indecent acts are being investigated against her. At least seven victims have already submitted statements."
The suspect is being held by police and is expected to appear before a magistrate on Monday, said the statement.
A spokeswoman in Chicago for U.S. billionaire television magnate Winfrey said there was no one immediately available for comment.
The $40 million academy has been dogged by controversy since it opened in January with a launch attended by singers Mariah Carey and Tina Turner, actor Sydney Poitier and filmmaker Spike Lee.
Winfrey selected the first class of 152 poor, mostly black pupils to attend the school that boasts state-of-the-art facilities including laboratories, a yoga studio and beauty salon.
Tuition and board is free. The academy provides its 450 students with textbooks, uniforms and meals.
NO JUNK FOOD
In March, some parents complained the school was too strict and its restrictions on visits, phone calls and email contact were comparable to rules in prisons.
In May, some parents complained their children were not allowed junk food and, when they visited the school, they had to go through a security gate.
Crimen injuria refers to the crime of injuring another person's dignity. This can cover racial abuse and sexual offences against children.
"We would like to thank a team of experts appointed by the Oprah Winfrey Leadership Academy for Girls who compiled a misconduct report which was later handed to the police," said the police statement.
"The report assisted members of the police to speed up investigations, that is, victims as well as the suspect were already identified."
South Africa's Rapport newspaper had reported that Winfrey had flown to meet parents and school officials, and asked for forgiveness for
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Oprah dear, you didn't expect to go overseas build a nice school, leave, then expect anything to run smoothly...did you ?
Just because the school has the word "Oprah" on it, doesn't mean all the crimes, abuses, murders and molestation that happen in other schools won't happen in yours...Although i'm sure topnoch security has now be placed in each corner of the school.
Oh come on now. And if you didn't bring YOUR investigators to Africa, up to now you won't have found a suspect.
Ah sounding ungrateful eh...but why dis surprising people?
You shoulda hear dey american media and dem "omg, i can't believe this happened", "something needs to be done FOR THE SCHOOL". Note this person didn't say, FOR THE CHILDREN.
steups.
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3-year-old anointed new 'living goddess' in ancient ceremony in Nepal
Tue Oct 7, 9:31 AM, By Yuvraj Acharya, The Associated Press
KATHMANDU, Nepal - Religious authorities in Nepal anointed a three-year-old girl as a living goddess Tuesday in a tradition dating back centuries.
(http://d.yimg.com/ca.yimg.com/p/081007/afp/icpsnuz67071008170309photo00.jpg?x=180&y=251&sig=NjhxAGJDuKqqri4EJdH.FA--)
Matani Shakya was wrapped in red silk and her hair was adorned with red flowers as Hindu and Buddhist priests chanted sacred hymns and showered her with flowers and grains of rice. The new "kumari" or living goddess, was carried from her parents' home to an ancient palatial temple in the heart of the Nepal's capital, Kathmandu.
She will live there until she reaches puberty and loses her divine status.
Until then, she will be worshipped by Hindus and Buddhists as an incarnation of the powerful Hindu deity Taleju.
A panel of judges conducted a series of ancient ceremonies to select the goddess from several two-to four-year-old girls who are all members of the impoverished Shakya goldsmith caste.
The judges read the candidates' horoscopes and check each one for physical imperfections. The living goddess must have perfect hair, eyes, teeth and skin with no scars, and should not be afraid of the dark.
As a final test, the living goddess must spend a night alone in a room among the heads of ritually slaughtered goats and buffaloes without showing fear.
Having passed all the tests, the child will stay in almost complete isolation at the temple, and will be allowed to return to her family only at the onset of menstruation when a new goddess will be named to replace her.
"I feel a bit sad, but since my child has become a living goddess I feel proud," said her father, Pratap Man Shakya.
During her time as a goddess, she will always wear red, pin up her hair in topknots, and have a "third eye" painted on her forehead.
Devotees touch the girls' feet with their foreheads, the highest sign of respect among Hindus in Nepal. During religious festivals the goddesses are wheeled around on a chariot pulled by devotees.
Critics say the tradition violates both international and Nepalese laws on child rights. The girls often struggle to readjust to normal lives after they return home.
Nepalese folklore holds that men who marry a former kumari will die young, and so many girls remain unmarried and face a life of hardship.
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"Having passed all the tests, the child will stay in almost complete isolation at the temple, and will be allowed to return to her family only at the onset of menstruation when a new goddess will be named to replace her.
.....Nepalese folklore holds that men who marry a former kumari will die young, and so many girls remain unmarried and face a life of hardship. "
very strange
but who am I to judge..
Maybe it is time to allow the "Living Goddess" to have a different, family based, upbringing
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Maybe it is time to allow the "Living Goddess" to have a different, family based, upbringing
like you speaking from experience ohwah? Ever since they send you back home you can't adjust and now you end up on this forum nite and day. Ah bet you vex you get your period.
;D
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(http://www.trinidadexpress.com/images/fronts/TrinidadPaper.jpg)
DRUMMER BOY KILLED
Four bullets pumped into 12-year-old after church
Gyasi Gonzales ggonzales@trinidadexpress.com
Tuesday, April 28th 2009
WHY was 12-year-old Adrian Richards hunted down and killed?
Was it a case of mistaken identity?
Was it because of a problem at school?
Was it because of gang warfare in his neighbourhood?
So many questions but no one knows for sure.
In an area known for its high murder rate, Laventillians are asking themselves what caused someone to walk up to this particular pre-teen on Sunday night, pursue him and pump four rounds into his back.
As far as they are concerned, all he was guilty of was his passion for drums through the Mawasi Experience and going to church.
Shortly before 8.50 p.m. on Sunday, the pupil of the Morvant-Laventille Secondary School was dropped off along the Old St Joseph Road, Laventille, near his mother's Williams Street house.
He had just returned from Penal where he had done some drumming on behalf of his church, the Corpus Christi RC Church. He reportedly saw his friend and wanted to talk to him. Although warned about crime in the area he apparently felt comfortable being so close to home.
His great-grandmother, Ruby Baptiste, said she heard several gunshots near her house that night and immediately became concerned about the boy who still had not returned home. It was only when she ventured out she was told what happened and she found out it was Richards who was murdered.
Besson Street police said the gunman walked up to Richards and his friend. Richard ran off clutching his cell phone which was ringing at the time. He kept ending the calls as he ran for his life.
He jumped a wall and ran into someone's house. He fell between two chairs face down.
The gunman came over him and fired four shots, killing him instantly.
The Express visited his mother, Allison Richards, yesterday morning at her home.
The child would have celebrated his 13th birthday on Thursday, she said.
She had planned to bake him a cake because with her two other children it is all she could have afforded.
"What it is he do anybody?" she asked. "He's a mere boy just trying to find himself. He goes to church and beats drums ... I don't know, I don't know," she cried.
She continued though that "he had been threatened by some other child but I don't know if this boy would have gone the distance".
So concerned was his mother about these threats she reported the matter to the Besson Street Police and was also trying to get him out of the Morvant-Laventille Secondary School.
About the unknown person who killed her son, Richards had this to say: "The Lord will deal with allyuh, whoever allyuh is. Nobody child deserve to die like that. I just hope when night come allyuh cyar sleep and will see my son's face anytime yuh lie down."
A team from the Besson Street CID led by Insp Sahadeo Singh visited the scene on Sunday night.
Homicide Bureau officers are continuing investigations.
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first thing i read this morning i shake meh head.Maybe the police and army should have a "permanent" presence in these areas like they did in deigo when the soldier was killed. who knows.
RIP small man
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They should go in and just take all the known criminal element down to the station for questioning and on the way accidentally flip all the buses that they will need. The only way this kinda shit will stop is when there is no-one left to start it.
RIP Drummer Boy
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sometimes yuh does read these tings and just get dumb struck.this is utter chaos.
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thats real bullshit, the police to slack back home, they will probably never find the murderer >:(
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thats real bullshit, the police to slack back home, they will probably never find the murderer >:(
yeah de police and de government, look how dem causing man to be so f**king callous dat he run down an already shot child,, a f**king child and empty de gun in him.
Patrick Manning you is ah failure!
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The Newsday say is 15 bullet he pick up with.
And they take Bill from Vegas soul last night too.
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thats real bullshit, the police to slack back home, they will probably never find the murderer >:(
yeah de police and de government, look how dem causing man to be so f**king callous dat he run down an already shot child,, a f**king child and empty de gun in him.
Patrick Manning you is ah failure!
Government has failed its citizens when a nation with such a relatively small perimeter can't properly be secured or policed to:
a) Prevent the flow of guns into the country
b) Enact suitable laws with appropriate penalties to curb the spread of crime and violence
c) Have a professional police force properly capable and committed to enforce the laws that are currently on the books.
The one upside, if there is one, to this story is that his killer was brazen enough to commit the act in full view of the public and appears to be known to the police and community. Now whether anyone would step forward and identify/testify against him in court... that remains to be seen.
Sad state of affairs when a child could be targeted and murdered just like that. This is beyond ridiculous.
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thats real bullshit, the police to slack back home, they will probably never find the murderer >:(
yeah de police and de government, look how dem causing man to be so f**king callous dat he run down an already shot child,, a f**king child and empty de gun in him.
Patrick Manning you is ah failure!
Government has failed its citizens when a nation with such a relatively small perimeter can't properly be secured or policed to:
a) Prevent the flow of guns into the country
b) Enact suitable laws with appropriate penalties to curb the spread of crime and violence
c) Have a professional police force properly capable and committed to enforce the laws that are currently on the books.
The one upside, if there is one, to this story is that his killer was brazen enough to commit the act in full view of the public and appears to be known to the police and community. Now whether anyone would step forward and identify/testify against him in court... that remains to be seen.
Sad state of affairs when a child could be targeted and murdered just like that. This is beyond ridiculous.
I too am sometimes guilty of blaming the authorities for the shocking crime situation in T&T, but to be fair the crime situation is not just a reflection of the incompetence of our law enforcement authorities...it's a telling reflection of the moral decay of our society...Sure, the seeming inability of our law enforcement authorities to apprehend and prosecute these gangsters contributes to their belief that they could kill a man with impunity...but when we get to the point where the fear of being caught and punished is the only reason a man wouldn't murder another man then we know something is seriously wrong with us.... It's time we stop blaming every body else and take a long look at ourselves..
PS: TC, I sensed your sarcasm ;)
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I too am sometimes guilty of blaming the authorities for the shocking crime situation in T&T, but to be fair the crime situation is not just a reflection of the incompetence of our law enforcement authorities...it's a telling reflection of the moral decay of our society...Sure, the seeming inability of our law enforcement authorities to apprehend and prosecute these gangsters contributes to their belief that they could kill a man with impunity...but when we get to the point where the fear of being caught and punished is the only reason a man wouldn't murder another man then we know something is seriously wrong with us.... It's time we stop blaming every body else and take a long look at ourselves..
PS: TC, I sensed your sarcasm ;)
I limited my response to the government/law enforcement because I didn't feel like launching into yet another long sociological treatment of the issue... this has been discussed here before and yes individuals and society each have a part to play. None of that however, absolves government/law enforcement from the specific responsibilities as I have outlined.
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Sometimes I really wonder if iz ah devil running thru world, (T&T included)
Very sad news.
RIP yute.
:-\.
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I am one of those who has cuss the gov't and also lamented on the failure of the the police and the judicial system. I am one who would not loose sleep in Patrick (PNM) is defeated. But the other side of the equation falls squarely on the citizens of TT(Black People in particular). We have failed our children. We no longer in control of them. I calling a spade a spade.
RIP young drummer boy. And Lord, the fellah who did that to him, I hope you have something good for him too!!!!!
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Boy i telling allyuh, and i mean every word of it! if this was 30 yrs ago when DR williams was in power and randolph boroughs was the head of the flying squad, this would not be happening, matter of fact these fellas wouldn't even make it into court!
boroughs woulda have a field day wid these so called criminals! martin joseph and philbert and dem scared to kill these fellas or what!!!
kill these kakaholes nah boy! weh alyuh waiting for!! it real simple ,don't bring them to court! hunt dem down like dogs and shoot dem! what so hard bout dat! and fork human rights! bush did it in iraq and afganistan! so who is we, a mare bananna republic?
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yeah de police and de government, look how dem causing man to be so f**king callous dat he run down an already shot child,, a f**king child and empty de gun in him.
Patrick Manning you is ah failure!
yes Trinity like this one break the camel back boy i have to :applause: :applause: yuh ,because me i fedup long time buh yuh know wah bad about it we doh have ah oppositon so this make it worse.
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Boy i telling allyuh, and i mean every word of it! if this was 30 yrs ago when DR williams was in power and randolph boroughs was the head of the flying squad, this would not be happening, matter of fact these fellas wouldn't even make it into court!
boroughs woulda have a field day wid these so called criminals! martin joseph and philbert and dem scared to kill these fellas or what!!!
kill these kakaholes nah boy! weh alyuh waiting for!! it real simple ,don't bring them to court! hunt dem down like dogs and shoot dem! what so hard bout dat! and fork human rights! bush did it in iraq and afganistan! so who is we, a mare bananna republic.
Shit like this have man in f**kin' TEARS jed. This woulda NEVER happen in borroughs' time. Not in Laventille, not in EDR, Nelson Street, Tunapuna, NOWHERE!! Borroughs woulda done shake up de whole ah POS fuh some shit like dis!
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I now talking to meh boy in trinidad. and he told me that the boy had a problem with a girl in his school, he must have lite a piece of her hair on fire.
she then threaten tuh have him taken care of, so i guess that's what she did.
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I now talking to meh boy in trinidad. and he told me that the boy had a problem with a girl in his school, he must have lite a piece of her hair on fire.
she then threaten tuh have him taken care of, so i guess that's what she did.
same ting ah say,this younger fukkin generation need guidance,no fukkin parental control.yes government is to blame,but not bear de brunt of it.these hot areas need constant fukkin police watch.u implement ah curfew nitetime but like these killins happening in broad daylite.
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Boy i telling allyuh, and i mean every word of it! if this was 30 yrs ago when DR williams was in power and randolph boroughs was the head of the flying squad, this would not be happening, matter of fact these fellas wouldn't even make it into court!
boroughs woulda have a field day wid these so called criminals! martin joseph and philbert and dem scared to kill these fellas or what!!!
kill these kakaholes nah boy! weh alyuh waiting for!! it real simple ,don't bring them to court! hunt dem down like dogs and shoot dem! what so hard bout dat! and fork human rights! bush did it in iraq and afganistan! so who is we, a mare bananna republic.
Shit like this have man in f**kin' TEARS jed. This woulda NEVER happen in borroughs' time. Not in Laventille, not in EDR, Nelson Street, Tunapuna, NOWHERE!! Borroughs woulda done shake up de whole ah POS fuh some shit like dis!
That fukking animal woulda walk in de nearest police station on he knees begging fuh he life. Many killings have upset me over the years, and not to suggest that any one is worse than the other... but something about a grown man targeting ah child like this for murder... NAH!
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I now talking to meh boy in trinidad. and he told me that the boy had a problem with a girl in his school, he must have lite a piece of her hair on fire.
she then threaten tuh have him taken care of, so i guess that's what she did.
dese yutes out here cold rel cold..doh care wat nobody say it hav no education system dat cud tunn chirren into criminal...some ah dem naturally doh care fuh nutten an daz d kinda adults dat we mass producing...so crime on all levels top middle an bottom...we does want ah political change buh we aint stop tuh study dat is out of d population dat dese same politicians does come from...so if we doh cater for d nastiness dat does be breeding on ah ground level den we shouldnt be surprised wen sombody elevate an take it to whatever position of influence...
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mind boggling
12 years old
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Rest in peace small man
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Boy i telling allyuh, and i mean every word of it! if this was 30 yrs ago when DR williams was in power and randolph boroughs was the head of the flying squad, this would not be happening, matter of fact these fellas wouldn't even make it into court!
boroughs woulda have a field day wid these so called criminals! martin joseph and philbert and dem scared to kill these fellas or what!!!
kill these kakaholes nah boy! weh alyuh waiting for!! it real simple ,don't bring them to court! hunt dem down like dogs and shoot dem! what so hard bout dat! and fork human rights! bush did it in iraq and afganistan! so who is we, a mare bananna republic.
Shit like this have man in f**kin' TEARS jed. This woulda NEVER happen in borroughs' time. Not in Laventille, not in EDR, Nelson Street, Tunapuna, NOWHERE!! Borroughs woulda done shake up de whole ah POS fuh some shit like dis!
That f**kking animal woulda walk in de nearest police station on he knees begging fuh he life. Many killings have upset me over the years, and not to suggest that any one is worse than the other... but something about a grown man targeting ah child like this for murder... NAH!
That is, for all we (or even any witnesses) may know, if it IS a grown man and not possibly just some other badman yute that is responsible for this one.....
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Sad!
Sad such a young man had to die.
Sad that it seems people just don't have any regard for life anymore.
Sad that there doesn't seem to be an answer to this.
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That is, for all we (or even any witnesses) may know, if it IS a grown man and not possibly just some other badman yute that is responsible for this one.....
Initial reports have the suspect as a 35-year old who police currently looking for... supposedly the brother of the schoolmate whose hair he singed with the lighter. The man supposedly confronted him and another li'l pardna and chased dem down... so I imagine de other yute know who do it.
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Burroughs was a CROOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.
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That is, for all we (or even any witnesses) may know, if it IS a grown man and not possibly just some other badman yute that is responsible for this one.....
Initial reports have the suspect as a 35-year old who police currently looking for... supposedly the brother of the schoolmate whose hair he singed with the lighter. The man supposedly confronted him and another li'l pardna and chased dem down... so I imagine de other yute know who do it.
.......and he probably in hiding....
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That is, for all we (or even any witnesses) may know, if it IS a grown man and not possibly just some other badman yute that is responsible for this one.....
Initial reports have the suspect as a 35-year old who police currently looking for... supposedly the brother of the schoolmate whose hair he singed with the lighter. The man supposedly confronted him and another li'l pardna and chased dem down... so I imagine de other yute know who do it.
.......and he probably in hiding....
must be hiding, if he's a witness you know he marked.
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That is, for all we (or even any witnesses) may know, if it IS a grown man and not possibly just some other badman yute that is responsible for this one.....
Initial reports have the suspect as a 35-year old who police currently looking for... supposedly the brother of the schoolmate whose hair he singed with the lighter. The man supposedly confronted him and another li'l pardna and chased dem down... so I imagine de other yute know who do it.
OK, I was unaware of that part.....very unlikely that that poor "other yute" is going to talk, but whether or not he does, I can only imagine the fear he is wrapped up in.
Burroughs was a CROOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.
Weary, I have heard many people say that, but I would be willing to proffer that he was no more a crook than many, many members of our police and defence forces (and this is throughout all positions along the chain of command). The difference being that there was never fear of our nation falling into a state of lawlessness when he was in charge as it has now done. Also, there was never a worry that he and his flying squad couldn't handily deal with the most hardened criminal relative to his time. I absolutely do not get that same air of confidence or competence from his current counterparts.
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Burroughs was a CROOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.
he was probably worse than dat....but ppl didnt need no metal cage surroundin dey doors and windows when he was around
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Remember during the coup, when people rush to loot the stores, and later the police said that they would offer the grace period, where you could put the looted items out to be picked up no questions asked? But if they came after that and search your place and found stolen items, you would be charged?
You think that would happen today? No. People wouldn't give a damn and would keep the stolen items and worse yet a few might retaliate against the popo.
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Remember during the coup, when people rush to loot the stores, and later the police said that they would offer the grace period, where you could put the looted items out to be picked up no questions asked? But if they came after that and search your place and found stolen items, you would be charged?
You think that would happen today? No. People wouldn't give a damn and would keep the stolen items and worse yet a few might retaliate against the popo.
Are you aware of anyone who complied?
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Burroughs was a CROOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.
he was probably worse than dat....but ppl didnt need no metal cage surroundin dey doors and windows when he was around
Dutty u smarter than dat. D drug trade began on his watch. Carli Bay still have ships comin in because of he. So because of d drugs that now in d country we have 2 live behind cages. As 4 himbeing as corrupt as d present set he was their mentor.
D man sow d sead and we reapin d harvest thus y we cyah live in peace.
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This lil fella is being buried today the day he would have turned 13.....I saw his mother being interviewed on Gayelle TV last night....geez boy ah cyar even begin to think what she's going through....*sigh* :'(
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I agree with weary with regards to Burroughs. He eliminated rivals as well as criminals. Our organised crime was in its infant stages then and that is why we didn't have to live in cages, not because of the effectiveness of the Flying Squad. Imagine giving the police right to shoot who ever they say are criminals... no due process, evidence gathering, forensic investigation.
I not sorry to say that I glad the days of the Flying Squad are over. I weep for our country that a dispute between 12 year olds must be resolved by the gun of a 35 year old - the one who should know better and be the voice of reason. I agree with BnS about the responsibility of the government to us the citizens and I also revisit that we are failing our children and by extention our selves in our communities.
RIP young Trinbagonian. When will this culture of violence and death end?
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what should they do with the little girl ? sense is she put out the hit .
It is apparent to me that trinidad is becoming infested with sociopaths ! thats a mental problem when you have no conscience about killing . Kids should be monitored and sick once should be kept track off ,and given meds .
what causing this mental disorder that wrecking the old country...is it the water ..old lead pipes ,happens a lots in our poorer areas ?
RIP little guy .
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This lil fella is being buried today the day he would have turned 13.....I saw his mother being interviewed on Gayelle TV last night....geez boy ah cyar even begin to think what she's going through....*sigh* :'(
Dat funeral will b a hot mess.
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All who talking dat crap bout boroughs still talking outa timing!
the fact is and will remain, if it wasn't boroughs then it would've been another stuff shirt brass wearing thief!
since the word independence became familiar amongst third worlders, corruption wasn't far behind! in other words, independence and corruption goes hand in hand! they are identical twins without a doubt!
we always hear ppl say boroughs was corrupt, and maybe so! but in the mids of all his corruption , he @ least kept the society from the criminal infestation that the country face today! and i will go as far to say if borroughs was still running the route the country would be 100% safter than it is under any commisioner after him!
that's the differance between mr B and dem so called police we have in T&T today! they're corrupt and they not ridding the society of violent criminals!
@ least borrough kept order in the place while his hand was in the jar,these other fellas is pure incompetant thieves!
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All who talking dat crap bout boroughs still talking outa timing!
the fact is and will remain, if it wasn't boroughs then it would've been another stuff shirt brass wearing thief!
since the word independence became familiar amongst third worlders, corruption wasn't far behind! in other words, independence and corruption goes hand in hand! they are identical twins without a doubt!
we always hear ppl say boroughs was corrupt, and maybe so! but in the mids of all his corruption , he @ least kept the society from the criminal infestation that the country face today! and i will go as far to say if borroughs was still running the route the country would be 100% safter than it is under any commisioner after him!
that's the differance between mr B and dem so called police we have in T&T today! they're corrupt and they not ridding the society of violent criminals!
@ least borrough kept order in the place while his hand was in the jar,these other fellas is pure incompetant thieves!
So Burroughs was corrupt but he kept order. U tink he could keep order 2day. LOUDDDDD LOUDDDDDDDD STEUPSSSSSSSSSS. We reaping d effects of his corruption but in d 70's and 80's he kept tings in order. Well thanks 2 he corruption of d 70's and 80's we in 2009 payin 4 it. In d same time cocaine was rampant in Colombia as it is now. Some Burroughs type official allow d drug cartels 2 take ovah and we c what happenin 2day.
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Burroughs was a CROOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.
he was probably worse than dat....but ppl didnt need no metal cage surroundin dey doors and windows when he was around
Dutty u smarter than dat. D drug trade began on his watch. Carli Bay still have ships comin in because of he. So because of d drugs that now in d country we have 2 live behind cages. As 4 himbeing as corrupt as d present set he was their mentor.
D man sow d sead and we reapin d harvest thus y we cyah live in peace.
weary, yes corruption at that time led to a more virulent criminal element (all them criminal deportees from usa didn't help either). but how burrough's corruption lead to todays INCOMPETENCE in the police force? ???
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Burroughs was a CROOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.
he was probably worse than dat....but ppl didnt need no metal cage surroundin dey doors and windows when he was around
Dutty u smarter than dat. D drug trade began on his watch. Carli Bay still have ships comin in because of he. So because of d drugs that now in d country we have 2 live behind cages. As 4 himbeing as corrupt as d present set he was their mentor.
D man sow d sead and we reapin d harvest thus y we cyah live in peace.
weary, yes corruption at that time led to a more virulent criminal element (all them criminal deportees from usa didn't help either). but how burrough's corruption lead to todays INCOMPETENCE in the police force? ???
Where I say dat he lead 2 d incompetence but d corruption sure. He sow d seeds of corruption but we reapin d harvest. D deportee issue is an eg of incompetence we yardie friends had dat problem b4 oui. U would tink dat we would have put systems in place 2 deal wit it. D horse... b4 we strt 2 put systems in place.
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Remember during the coup, when people rush to loot the stores, and later the police said that they would offer the grace period, where you could put the looted items out to be picked up no questions asked? But if they came after that and search your place and found stolen items, you would be charged?
You think that would happen today? No. People wouldn't give a damn and would keep the stolen items and worse yet a few might retaliate against the popo.
Are you aware of anyone who complied?
Yep. I personally know a few who complied and a few who did not.
There was also case bout a policeman who thief a lawnmower from the evidence room and a set of other things. The police acting on a tip raid his house. He told them he move all the stuff to his house for safekeeping. Some smart eagle eyed cop ask him if he move it for safekeeping why the lawnmower have fresh cut grass on it. He give a set of excuses but in the end they catch him in the whole lie. Believe he was fired to0. Can't remember his name, but it make front page for a few days.
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Remember during the coup, when people rush to loot the stores, and later the police said that they would offer the grace period, where you could put the looted items out to be picked up no questions asked? But if they came after that and search your place and found stolen items, you would be charged?
You think that would happen today? No. People wouldn't give a damn and would keep the stolen items and worse yet a few might retaliate against the popo.
Are you aware of anyone who complied?
Yep. I personally know a few who complied and a few who did not.
There was also case bout a policeman who thief a lawnmower from the evidence room and a set of other things. The police acting on a tip raid his house. He told them he move all the stuff to his house for safekeeping. Some smart eagle eyed cop ask him if he move it for safekeeping why the lawnmower have fresh cut grass on it. He give a set of excuses but in the end they catch him in the whole lie. Believe he was fired to0. Can't remember his name, but it make front page for a few days.
He was not fired. 4 yrs he was bypass 4 promotion because of d issue. He took dem 2 court and won because he was neva charge.
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Wait nah... ah late... but this really happen...??? What the people doing about it, or is this just another one lost?
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Remember during the coup, when people rush to loot the stores, and later the police said that they would offer the grace period, where you could put the looted items out to be picked up no questions asked? But if they came after that and search your place and found stolen items, you would be charged?
You think that would happen today? No. People wouldn't give a damn and would keep the stolen items and worse yet a few might retaliate against the popo.
Are you aware of anyone who complied?
Yep. I personally know a few who complied and a few who did not.
There was also case bout a policeman who thief a lawnmower from the evidence room and a set of other things. The police acting on a tip raid his house. He told them he move all the stuff to his house for safekeeping. Some smart eagle eyed cop ask him if he move it for safekeeping why the lawnmower have fresh cut grass on it. He give a set of excuses but in the end they catch him in the whole lie. Believe he was fired to0. Can't remember his name, but it make front page for a few days.
He was not fired. 4 yrs he was bypass 4 promotion because of d issue. He took dem 2 court and won because he was neva charge.
Girl you so right. Now that you mention it I remembering the hoopla even more.
Anyway I would like to believe that something will be done about this latest disaster and it won't be just another story that died out because nothing getting done about it. But... I suspect I have a greater chance of seeing a pig fly.
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All who talking dat crap bout boroughs still talking outa timing!
the fact is and will remain, if it wasn't boroughs then it would've been another stuff shirt brass wearing thief!
since the word independence became familiar amongst third worlders, corruption wasn't far behind! in other words, independence and corruption goes hand in hand! they are identical twins without a doubt!
we always hear ppl say boroughs was corrupt, and maybe so! but in the mids of all his corruption , he @ least kept the society from the criminal infestation that the country face today! and i will go as far to say if borroughs was still running the route the country would be 100% safter than it is under any commisioner after him!
that's the differance between mr B and dem so called police we have in T&T today! they're corrupt and they not ridding the society of violent criminals!
@ least borrough kept order in the place while his hand was in the jar,these other fellas is pure incompetant thieves!
borroughs was ruthless, but he ruled with an iron fist, yuh cant roll sorf in trinidad and deal with men, it was all stories about him for me as a child bc he was friends with my grandfather and was there at his funeral, personally i heard him to be a respectable man but when it came to dealing with a situation he was like a freight train with no brakes, trinidad police gone sour, boroughs is ideal for todays criminal, especially after reading how this innocent boy getting drop for nuttin.
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what year Burroughs died ?
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smh. like the newsday following in the guardian footsteps...
http://www.newsday.co.tt/day/1,29418.html#foto
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Drummer boy laid to rest
Michelle Loubon | 10:23 pm
Published: May 1, 2009
Perched atop a shelf, a statue of the Madonna and Child kept vigil over the funeral of the little drummer boy—Adrian Joseph Kayode Richards—at Corpus Christi RC Church, Success Village, Laventille, yesterday. On the day when Adrian’s mother Allison Richards should have been celebrating his 13th birthday, she cut a sombre picture.
Before Adrian’s body was removed to the burial plot, mourners watched as Allison tenderly kissed Richards face, before tightening the screws on his coffin.
As CNC3 presenter JayeQ Baptiste hugged Allison, she sobbed, “I did my best.” Social Development Minister Dr Amery Browne and Parliamentary Secretary in the Ministry of Works and Transport Ni Leung Hypolite offered their condolences. Mourning mothers remarked the handsome boy in blue, still had “his mother’s milk on his face.” Shelving his grief, artistic director of the Mawasi Experience, Peter Telfer, led an impassioned musical tribute in honour of Adrian, a member of Mawasi.
As the drums rolled, students from Morvant Laventille Secondary School, who comprised a significant segment of the congregation wept and consoled each other. Later on, they would autograph a card with messages of love and Psalm 23 and a T-shirt in memory of Adrian. The presence of youth did not go unnoticed by parish priest Fr Dwight Merrick and officiating chief celebrant Fr Clyde Harvey. Both of them called upon youth to stem the tide of violence in the society.
Merrick lamented “too many black boys are being fed like lambs to the slaughterhouse. Instead, they should be participating in theatre, sports and games while they take their education seriously.” Before administering the communion, Harvey asked the boys 14 and under to stand. “Ask yourself what kind of man or woman am I going to be?” He said: “You have the power to make or break a life in this country. Say no to violence, especially violence of guns. Learn to box it out. Learn how to settle disputes. Punctuating the air, Harvey added, “It mustn’t be pow-pow-pow.”
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Burroughs was a CROOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.
he was probably worse than dat....but ppl didnt need no metal cage surroundin dey doors and windows when he was around
Dutty u smarter than dat. D drug trade began on his watch. Carli Bay still have ships comin in because of he. So because of d drugs that now in d country we have 2 live behind cages. As 4 himbeing as corrupt as d present set he was their mentor.
D man sow d sead and we reapin d harvest thus y we cyah live in peace.
weary, yes corruption at that time led to a more virulent criminal element (all them criminal deportees from usa didn't help either). but how burrough's corruption lead to todays INCOMPETENCE in the police force? ???
Where I say dat he lead 2 d incompetence but d corruption sure. He sow d seeds of corruption but we reapin d harvest. D deportee issue is an eg of incompetence we yardie friends had dat problem b4 oui. U would tink dat we would have put systems in place 2 deal wit it. D horse... b4 we strt 2 put systems in place.
weary, i've made this point before with regards to corruption - if it's one country in the caribbean that can suffer a little corruption is t&t. t&t have money. it's not lack of money that is the problem in t&t is lack of effort and resolve. if people looking at corruption to see who should be running things (police or govt) they looking at the wrong thing. choose based on merit and competency first and foremost. like mukumsplau say, there is corruption everywhere. look they bust a former police chief here in toronto. the last one was a racist sob BUT he could do the wuk. allyuh looking for virtue like yuh selecting the pope? yuh conscience mean more than yuh life? nah, policing (and govt) is a dirty business and people have to look at the bottom line - whether that person can do the job.
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D Peter principle is how we conduct buziness in TT. Clean up d police service dat is priority 1 for Philbert. D seniority promotion done as well so tings may get a lil betta. D problem eh strt yday so it cyah end 2day.
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If yuh arkse me, for all the corruption that Borroughs began that Weary and others are pointing to as the ignition for our country's current state of lawlessness (with which I respectfully but emphatically disagree, Weary) I will say in a nutshell that it's really abu bakr and his successful coup attempt that has been the direct and indirect (ah covering all meh bases here ;D) causes of what is going on in the country. I'm sure plenty will disagree, but I hope some will understand exactly where ah coming from.
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If yuh arkse me, for all the corruption that Borroughs began that Weary and others are pointing to as the ignition for our country's current state of lawlessness (with which I respectfully but emphatically disagree, Weary) I will say in a nutshell that it's really abu bakr and his successful coup attempt that has been the direct and indirect (ah covering all meh bases here ;D) causes of what is going on in the country. I'm sure plenty will disagree, but I hope some will understand exactly where ah coming from.
I actually agree with this... I think this man has way more to do with the current proliferation of guns in TnT than anybody else. Not saying he's bringing in all/most of the guns but I think he opened the floodgates. The fact that he escaped with impunity only served to fuel his own notoriety as an untouchable, and gave a false sense of bravado to others who subsequently walked in his shoes.
As for Burroughs... I dunno, he may have been corrupt but I doubt he was a crook as some are making him out to be. Corruption and criminality may go hand in hand but that still does not make them the same thing in one. He may have operated above the law, but I'm not convinced that he strayed that far OUTSIDE the law.
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If yuh arkse me, for all the corruption that Borroughs began that Weary and others are pointing to as the ignition for our country's current state of lawlessness (with which I respectfully but emphatically disagree, Weary) I will say in a nutshell that it's really abu bakr and his successful coup attempt that has been the direct and indirect (ah covering all meh bases here ;D) causes of what is going on in the country. I'm sure plenty will disagree, but I hope some will understand exactly where ah coming from.
So d fact dat the COP at d time was a crook eh mean that d peeps below him learn d tricks ah d trade and now peeps like Bakr was able 2 open d floodgates. He open d door now others walkin through it. If it was not he somebody else would have done it but iof d top cop is a crook how u expect crime not 2 b eventually a problem
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Burroughs and he Flying Squad were a law unto deyself, people get jailed, innocent and guilty alike, if yuh did cross he and he band ah men.
Criminals got cut down down easy, easy...like green bush under ah gilpin...in fact it amounted to State Sanctioned murder!
Burroughs was behind drug trafficking in T&T after de man get de Trinity Cross and make commish, he get investigated for cocaine trafficking.
Is true he was never convicted but de Scott Drug report name him and he was even tried for murder, but again acquitted.
Talk all over town even in de earlies was dat Burroughs used to control Cali Bay Couva.
no doubt he was a criminal
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http://library2.nalis.gov.tt/infofiles/collect/news3/index/assoc/HASH5c6a/5f22b3e7.dir/doc.pdf
interesting find..I actually remember this incident
One of my classmates sister was Beverly Jones..we used to call him Rata Bunny.....
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what should they do with the little girl ? sense is she put out the hit .
It is apparent to me that trinidad is becoming infested with sociopaths ! thats a mental problem when you have no conscience about killing . Kids should be monitored and sick once should be kept track off ,and given meds .
what causing this mental disorder that wrecking the old country...is it the water ..old lead pipes ,happens a lots in our poorer areas ?
RIP little guy .
You very right Quagmire, Trinidad has an extremely high per capita amount of people with different levels of mental illness.
The cause is mainly abuse at home coupled with abuse at school resulting in a lack of desire and intense dislike for education.
The education system, particularly early childhood and primary, are very abusive and stifle children's natural verbal expressiveness and it's very repressive and instills fear in them, that along with many other ills in society builds hate in them.
To be brief the abuse at home is largely because of how pressurized most people are in this country, people work hard but can hardly afford basic food and amenities, and have to live in slum-like communities. Being under constant pressure significantly contributes to the widespread mental illness and subsequent abuse of their own children out of frustration, and all the conflict in these children's heads, whose minds are not supposed to have to deal with all these issues and intense pressure at home and at school(the place that is supposed to be an escape, but is even more ruled by fear) aids in these children becoming jaded and numb.(Will eventually lead to them having a level of mental illness too)
All the right combinations and ingredients have come together in this country, and the result is that Trinidad is simply an effieciently breeding ground for mentally ill people, psychopaths and criminals.
There's tons of other issues to add to this equation, but that's all I can or want to think of now. I've done plenty pondering on this. I sometimes imagine gathering together different experts on these topics and writing an all encompassing grand report on this country, it's problems and underlying issues, their causes and underlying causes, the history that created them and allowed them to fester, and an all-encompassing master plan on how to solve the problems. That would be nice, because I've said this a long time ago, and I've recently heard other people start saying it too, and that is that EVERY system, sector and service in this country needs to be closely looked at and studied and reworked, in order to fix our problems. Every system has the trademark T&T stamp of haphazard on them. There will always be problems and things less than ideal in countries, even when you look at some of the best countries in the world to live- Japan, Iceland, Denmark, etc, they still have their fair share of problems, but I can tell you one thing- it a damn lot less than we have over here.
Fail to plan and you've planned to fail, and they've planned exhaustively and extensively, and implemented.
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Burroughs was a CROOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.
he was probably worse than dat....but ppl didnt need no metal cage surroundin dey doors and windows when he was around
Dutty u smarter than dat. D drug trade began on his watch. Carli Bay still have ships comin in because of he. So because of d drugs that now in d country we have 2 live behind cages. As 4 himbeing as corrupt as d present set he was their mentor.
D man sow d sead and we reapin d harvest thus y we cyah live in peace.
daiz the story i hear, even in the press
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Burroughs was a CROOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.
he was probably worse than dat....but ppl didnt need no metal cage surroundin dey doors and windows when he was around
Dutty u smarter than dat. D drug trade began on his watch. Carli Bay still have ships comin in because of he. So because of d drugs that now in d country we have 2 live behind cages. As 4 himbeing as corrupt as d present set he was their mentor.
D man sow d sead and we reapin d harvest thus y we cyah live in peace.
daiz the story i hear, even in the press
Peeps talkin bout Bakr all yuh 4get he was police who know it eh Burroughs who teach him. Anyways if he strt 2 bring guns in Carli Bay d next man after he no longer on d scene where u tink he startin Maracas Bay.
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Burroughs was a CROOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK.
he was probably worse than dat....but ppl didnt need no metal cage surroundin dey doors and windows when he was around
lol maracas bay
Dutty u smarter than dat. D drug trade began on his watch. Carli Bay still have ships comin in because of he. So because of d drugs that now in d country we have 2 live behind cages. As 4 himbeing as corrupt as d present set he was their mentor.
D man sow d sead and we reapin d harvest thus y we cyah live in peace.
daiz the story i hear, even in the press
Peeps talkin bout Bakr all yuh 4get he was police who know it eh Burroughs who teach him. Anyways if he strt 2 bring guns in Carli Bay d next man after he no longer on d scene where u tink he startin Maracas Bay.
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I just have one question for all who saying this and dat about boroughs!! if boroughs was alive and well in T&T today and was running the route wid the flying squad, would we have all this uncontrolable crime in the society TODAY ??!! and fack what criminal activity he was involved in , just answer the queation!!
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I just have one question for all who saying this and dat about boroughs!! if boroughs was alive and well in T&T today and was running the route wid the flying squad, would we have all this uncontrolable crime in the society TODAY ??!! and fack what criminal activity he was involved in , just answer the queation!!
the burroughs example (specifically, the effect he had on lawlessness) just showin us that from the criminals' point of view, 'ordinary' policing is not a deterrent simply BECAUSE in a democracy with a semi-mature justice system, policing within the bounds of the law is a sorry waste of time.
Any sensible CoP would soon realise that in order to get the job done, yuh hadda fly high (above de law) strike swift...the old adage - Drastic times call for drastic measures. Inevitably, some truly innocent people go get caught up in de purge for maybe movin in de wrong circles. (Dey should know better)
F**k de party in power and take it into yuh own hands - when yuh units start to command respect and dey stop finding innocent women takin taxi to work brutally raped with dey face bash een with a big jagged rock, then yuh might even end up with a Trinity F**kin Cross!
Dem criminal and dem moving like terrorists and when (if!) dey get hold, civilian rules apply. As a killa on de hill, me eh have you to study - is ME who go make YOU fraid to f**kin sleep tonight and keep checkin dat yuh relatives allright every hour!
Would-be rapists, kidnappers and murderers only too aware of the combination of -
the lack of police resources,
the porous justice system
the easy availability of guns
the proliferation of police/army no-go areas
the amount of pardners dey have in de force
the reluctance of witnesses to testify
how easy it is to paralyze a community with fear
how quickly they could make lawlessness overtake de rule of law
...all because "...is Trinidad."
Should a man with balls decide to take up where Burroughs an de flyin squad left off, de situation would rapidly improve, talk done.
Dem men an dem need to wake up in de mornin with the thought that it have a man who go find dem an mash dem een brutally if dey even get ketch near drugs, guns, conspiracy to kidnap, rape, whaeva...dey need a personality to let them know that their breed cyah proliferate in a small place like T&T.
Dey hadda KNOW dat and FEAR dat. "Respect" and all ah dem ideals go come with de next generation...for now, f**k it.
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the burroughs example (specifically, the effect he had on lawlessness) just showin us that from the criminals' point of view, 'ordinary' policing is not a deterrent simply BECAUSE in a democracy with a semi-mature justice system, policing within the bounds of the law is a sorry waste of time.
Any sensible CoP would soon realise that in order to get the job done, yuh hadda fly high (above de law)...
I'm sorry but this part here is just nonsense. In fact quite the opposite, in any mature and functional democracy just the OPPOSITE is true... rule of law reigns supreme and whatever changes need to be implemented to ensure proper functioning of law and order could properly be had via the electoral process. That is to say government in a democracy should have the mandate (from the people) and the power to implement effective law enforcement strategies without crossing the bounds of legality. If the government officials in charge can't get the process done, then the people (in a "mature democracy") have the ability to vote them out and put officials in power who can.
We have such a system in Trinidad... people just refuse, or don't know how to shake free of party politics long enough to hold elected officials accountable at the ballot box.
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Just to add my 2 cents here
If any of you can find the story online...two of the other daily papers explained what happened.
It is alleged that the youth was a prankster and went to school with a lighter. It was reported that he burnt the hair of a girl in his class. The article quotes his classmates and his mother etc.
It was even reported that the mother of the child came into school, apologised to the girls parents etc.
The girl called a shot on him..the words used were quoted and it was mentioned in the article that her brother is a notorious ganster.
They went on to describe how the assailant sat on a wall, waited etc shot him, ran behind him, shot him again etc.
So the boy loses his life...the papers has the entire story, how the shot get call, how the parents apologise, they know who the shooter is, they know the girl who hair get burnt, her family connections etc.
AND NOT ONE PERSON HAS BEEN CHARGED, INTERROGATED, ARRESTED etc.
Dat is what going on down here.
All who see...dey know...but they will remain silent for fear it happens to them.
The parents of the boy know as well.
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Just to add my 2 cents here
If any of you can find the story online...two of the other daily papers explained what happened.
It is alleged that the youth was a prankster and went to school with a lighter. It was reported that he burnt the hair of a girl in his class. The article quotes his classmates and his mother etc.
It was even reported that the mother of the child came into school, apologised to the girls parents etc.
The girl called a shot on him..the words used were quoted and it was mentioned in the article that her brother is a notorious ganster.
They went on to describe how the assailant sat on a wall, waited etc shot him, ran behind him, shot him again etc.
So the boy loses his life...the papers has the entire story, how the shot get call, how the parents apologise, they know who the shooter is, they know the girl who hair get burnt, her family connections etc.
AND NOT ONE PERSON HAS BEEN CHARGED, INTERROGATED, ARRESTED etc.
Dat is what going on down here.
All who see...dey know...but they will remain silent for fear it happens to them.
The parents of the boy know as well.
Yeah I read that story in de earlies too... but somehow the song and tune changing now. The same story is where they said the police was looking for the girl brother... a 35-year old who confronted the deceased yute and his friend.
If true, is only a matter of time before that so-called "gangster" meet up with his fate.
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the burroughs example (specifically, the effect he had on lawlessness) just showin us that from the criminals' point of view, 'ordinary' policing is not a deterrent simply BECAUSE in a democracy with a semi-mature justice system, policing within the bounds of the law is a sorry waste of time.
Any sensible CoP would soon realise that in order to get the job done, yuh hadda fly high (above de law)...
I'm sorry but this part here is just nonsense. In fact quite the opposite, in any mature and functional democracy just the OPPOSITE is true... rule of law reigns supreme and whatever changes need to be implemented to ensure proper functioning of law and order could properly be had via the electoral process. That is to say government in a democracy should have the mandate (from the people) and the power to implement effective law enforcement strategies without crossing the bounds of legality. If the government officials in charge can't get the process done, then the people (in a "mature democracy") have the ability to vote them out and put officials in power who can.
We have such a system in Trinidad... people just refuse, or don't know how to shake free of party politics long enough to hold elected officials accountable at the ballot box.
hard luck dey Bakes, but is actually de justice system ah referrin to as half-ripe, not the democracy.
And half-ripe in de sense that just like a baby have all de facets of an adult, our justice system, from de cops to de courts, have all de right names for dey "departments" but none ah dem really developed in the sense of...working.
De democracy part intact as long as PNM winnin. Ent? (random shot)
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I just have one question for all who saying this and dat about boroughs!! if boroughs was alive and well in T&T today and was running the route wid the flying squad, would we have all this uncontrolable crime in the society TODAY ??!! and fack what criminal activity he was involved in , just answer the queation!!
u asking IF?
We cant answer that, and u cant either.
How much did crime increase after buroughs times til the 90s?
Or how was the crime situation when burroughs took over?
Anyone?
(I young-ish so i really dont know.)
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JC i honestly fell if de fox was in he hayday in this era he would have been taken out.
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JC i honestly fell if de fox was in he hayday in this era he would have been taken out.
Maybe!! but he woulda take nuff ah dem wid him!
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JC i honestly fell if de fox was in he hayday in this era he would have been taken out.
Maybe!! but he woulda take nuff ah dem wid him!
BURROUGHS WAS LITTLE DIFFERENT FROM THOSE THAT HE KILLED!
He was not a real law man, he was a gang leader and his gang was the Flying Squad. He systematically eradicated HIS OPPOSITION.
His policing tactics were simple, who running drugs and not part of my clique dead!
How is that different from what those rival gangs are doing in T&T now?
The fact is we do need drastic measures now, but making Burroughs some sort of great crime fighting machine is bullshit.
f**k he dead ass.
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JC i honestly fell if de fox was in he hayday in this era he would have been taken out.
Maybe!! but he woulda take nuff ah dem wid him!
BURROUGHS WAS LITTLE DIFFERENT FROM THOSE THAT HE KILLED!
He was not a real law man, he was a gang leader and his gang was the Flying Squad. He systematically eradicated HIS OPPOSITION.
His policing tactics were simple, who running drugs and not part of my clique dead!
How is that different from what those rival gangs are doing in T&T now?
The fact is we do need drastic measures now, but making Burroughs some sort of great crime fighting machine is bullshit.
f**k he dead ass.
Breds yuh tallking outa timing!
i didn't want tuh talk , but i knew a few of the flying squad members BC they was friends with my old man, and meh inlaw's father who was a superintendant and he hated the "B" with a passion, so i have a few facts of my own.
my older brother was also a jail bird and boroughs made a coupple ah trips to our house tuh put meh bredder in check!
he also made a few trips tuh meh neighbor's house BC he was also on boroughs list!
borough killed more robbers and black power activist than drug dealers any day!!!
here's a list of the ppl he killed! freedom fighters= guy hearwood,beverly jones, abba, brian jeffers,the st margrets lane massacre, he also wanted tuh kill dave D'arbrau and chet swayo murai but failed. all these men were freedom fighters and not drug dealers!
robbers= mapp feable, robert garraway, christophor dread pascal, micheal balasco, barry brown, and he also tried tuh kill these cats and failed= cristophor (minty) spence, cuthbert (scotty) charles, owen fontain, jerry roberts , alvin (bachannal) wiliams, cool man junks, jeffery (beef ) worm, foul, and the notorious coffee from the harp! all these men was robbers, and notorious gun men! and not drug dealers.
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what freedom fighters? NUFF? That was a front for bank robbers and drug dealers! dem Nuff fellas used to walk into police station and take de police guns, Burroughs was using de Army to hunt NUFF down...dem was joint police army ops. And even den de police was shit in de bush
Burroughs used to be liming on Dundonald street when Cordner and de rest was killing..steups..
bandits,murderers and drg dealers dat was burroughs and he so-called flying squad..leh we differ I know what I know
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Just to add my 2 cents here
If any of you can find the story online...two of the other daily papers explained what happened.
It is alleged that the youth was a prankster and went to school with a lighter. It was reported that he burnt the hair of a girl in his class. The article quotes his classmates and his mother etc.
It was even reported that the mother of the child came into school, apologised to the girls parents etc.
The girl called a shot on him..the words used were quoted and it was mentioned in the article that her brother is a notorious ganster.
They went on to describe how the assailant sat on a wall, waited etc shot him, ran behind him, shot him again etc.
So the boy loses his life...the papers has the entire story, how the shot get call, how the parents apologise, they know who the shooter is, they know the girl who hair get burnt, her family connections etc.
AND NOT ONE PERSON HAS BEEN CHARGED, INTERROGATED, ARRESTED etc.
Dat is what going on down here.
All who see...dey know...but they will remain silent for fear it happens to them.
The parents of the boy know as well.
Dat is 1 version dat d papers say what happen another papers say d girl family eh no gangster and dat they eh do nutten and d chile fraid 2 go 2 school since d incidence. Remember dem is d same media dat carry d story bout container of chirren
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I remember in 1992 Assistant Police Commish Rodwell Murray alleged that there was a drugt cartel operating in teh TT Police Force....before dat in 1987 52 police get suspended all ah dem Randy boys for drug related crimes, and den he he self resign! Robinson even suspended a customs man and 4 judges...bankers name get calle as well as 5 PNM members in Chambers cabinet!
Can you say Scott Drug Report? RANDY BURROUGHS Name was everywhere on dat..........everywhere!
George Chamnbers did repress it if I remember correctly, and is only when my party NAR come in power things get revealed.
JC yuh doh remember the La Tinta commission?
bout de police sting dat went sour a policeman dead and 17 police get suspended ..again more men dat Burroughs did make! Coincidence?
NAH!
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Ah hear yuh talk bout nuff like if nuff was the only black power movement on the island around that time.
it had ah few fallas opposing the establishment including NJAC. now i will ask yuh one thing and be very honest wid meh! yuh really believe dave D' arbruae was ah bandit disguised as an activist?? what about brian jeffers, and chet murai!
i don't think daga had anything tuh do wid drugs or criminal activity! but how come boroughs was always up his arse! ah do agree that beverly jones and guy heywood was involved in crime, but not d' arbruae and jeffers!
what about the hard core criminals i mentioned, what drugs were they selling? NON!! all they did was rob and kill ppl! and boroughs still mash dem up.
BTW, when i was a yute i saw boroughs in my yard wid ah big sub machine gun and 5:45 in the morning looking to sneak up on my nieghbor! dat don't sound like like ah lazy fella who does be hanging out on dundonald st while his soldiers do the dirty work!
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Burroughs was present in the earlies, after he built his death squad...he was hardly present on dem raids. I know dat for a FACT!
He went after NAJC yes, but dat was because he was the state's answer to any and all challenges. In odder words he was dey sanctioned killer!
The man had so much power he did what he wanted and no one said peep!
NUFF was a so-called Marxist Leninist movement and I remember when dem bold faced jokers went into Forest Reserve Estate police station and shoot up de place and tief ah setta guns. dat was in May 1972 dat was de end ah dem.
NUFF and dem was not bandits per se, but they were certainly misguided
By the way dem was not associated with Joint NationaL action comm. later to become NJAC.
Yuh rememebr URO and Youth Forces and Working Classs organization? I was de youngest member of that group.
The URO was the United Revolutionary Organization, dey were de first to talk about womens' discrimination in Trinidad and Tobago.
I remember when I went to Tobago I could go to some beaches as I was red, but a dark man was denied! Same with bank jobs, and membership in de Country Club!
I was dey in Basil Davis funeral...yuh remember dat? It had a about 20k present mostly all wearing green and black....I was real young, but I recall like it was yesterday.
Burroughs called NUFF the number one enemy...dat meant all ah dem dead....NUFF rob bank, shoot down police tief from police stations and was planting weed!
NJAC is responsible for the black consciousness in T&T for the most part. They doh get enough credit for that, and dey included indians too!
Black was considered as good....no more need to straighten hair etc....before NJAC there was no Women's Affairs Ministry etc.
I remember when HATT formed...House Wives assoc of T&T ( dem still around?) dem lead protests over high food prices.....lol it worked too!
Oil boom come, and money run like water in Trinidad and Tobago, yet none eh reach Laventille and Morvant! NONE! We paying de price now...!
By the way who killed Beverly Jones as she lay on the ground? Lay on de facking ground? A teenager, pregnant and riddled with police bullets? Not yuh hero Burroughs and he boys?
MURDER! by MURDERERS!
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TT yuh all over the place now!! the reason i mentioned nuff and NJAC is BC you said boroughs only killed his competitors and i disagreed and showed proof that he killed criminals and freedom fighters alike, and even much more than drug dealers!
there were a few fellas that sold drugs whom borroughs santioned! beta lal, naim naya, teddy mice khan, dr rat, banlon, bulls, tuks from belmont, the ramlochan brothers so i've been told. dole chadee, and i'm sure there were much much more!
borroughs had so much men working for him that he really didn't have no need tuh kill his competitors, to me he had better reason to kill bandits who like tuh rob drug dealers rather than fellas who who selling dope, plus he didn't buy drugs BC when he raided them he took a portion to his pushers!
as for him being my boy, please! the only reason i bigging up boroughs is BC today in T&T police only interested in bobol and not crime fighting, and all i said was if boroughs was alive today crime would not be so out of controll! and for that i will big him up, but he's in no wise my boi! stuueepppsss!
BTW bro, i'm fully aware of NJAC'S contribution to our society since i was a junior member, and used to attend meetings @ duke st as well as hermitage RD in belmont. my parents and grand parents used to tell me all about colonial and post colonial ills, some of which you mentioned including the beach and bank scenario. positive.
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TT yuh all over the place now!! the reason i mentioned nuff and NJAC is BC you said boroughs only killed his competitors and i disagreed and showed proof that he killed criminals and freedom fighters alike, and even much more than drug dealers!
there were a few fellas that sold drugs whom borroughs santioned! beta lal, naim naya, teddy mice khan, dr rat, banlon, bulls, tuks from belmont, the ramlochan brothers so i've been told. dole chadee, and i'm sure there were much much more!
borroughs had so much men working for him that he really didn't have no need tuh kill his competitors, to me he had better reason to kill bandits who like tuh rob drug dealers rather than fellas who who selling dope, plus he didn't buy drugs BC when he raided them he took a portion to his pushers!
as for him being my boy, please! the only reason i bigging up boroughs is BC today in T&T police only interested in bobol and not crime fighting, and all i said was if boroughs was alive today crime would not be so out of controll! and for that i will big him up, but he's in no wise my boi! stuueepppsss!
BTW bro, i'm fully aware of NJAC'S contribution to our society since i was a junior member, and used to attend meetings @ duke st as well as hermitage RD in belmont. my parents and grand parents used to tell me all about colonial and post colonial ills, some of which you mentioned including the beach and bank scenario. positive.
I digressed toprove my point...nowhere did I say that Burroughs killed only his oppositions/rivals, he was a flat out killer, and I hope he rotting in HELL!
He killed those who claimed that they were freedom fighters, he killed bandits..executed them too, and he killed his drug dealing rivals...so what is yuh point/
A killer is a killer is a killer! Burroughs is a killer!
he was a big time crook, look how you changing yuh chat!
Now he took his cut, gave dem to pushers..his pushers, he sanctioned certain drug dealers, why he didnt sanction all den if he jes took he cut? NAh he was killing he opposition like I said, he was a big time drug dealing, bandit and killer!
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TC when yuh dealin with shit yuh become shit.
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Wha Randy B bank acct looked like?
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Wha Randy B bank acct looked like?
yuh doh keep them kinda cash in bank
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Death passed without mention, mourners
Ira Mathur | 7:02 pm
Published: May 10, 2009
Ira Mathur | 7:02 pm
When I opened the gate to a man who looked like he was starving and on the verge of collapse 17 years ago, he already looked old. He had no teeth. I opened my doors to him, allowed him to have a bath, fed him and got him insulin because he was so polite. His gentlemanly demeanour was incongruous with the cumulative stench emanating from an open wound on his arm, his filthy torn clothes and matted hair. I thought then, he could have been somebody. But he became a state statistic, rather than a public figure.
He was let down by the state.
He was one of the hundreds of thousands who left our school system without any passes; became a third-generation URP worker whose contribution was lost swallowed up by state-initiated dependency; whose state legacy of neglect, illiteracy and dependency was passed on to his six children, three of whom were shot dead in a country that now has the third highest murder rate in a non-warring country worldwide. Over 17 years he would call, asking for medication, for help, and there were times when he appeared to do well. He died last week of complications from diabetes—a manageable disease for which public awareness is entirely lacking.
His death, funeral passed without mention, notice or mourners. He may as well not have lived. But his is the story that is lived by hundreds of thousands of our people. His is the story of our land. Of our people. Last year, Mclean (he never told me his first name) and I had a long conversation and I recorded it, thinking I would write about it someday. Here it is. He was invisible while he was alive. On his death, as a tribute to him, he tells his story in his own voice. June 2008: “I am a 60-year-old man living in Laventille, McShine. Three of my four sons have been shot dead.
“They converted to Islam. They were all members of gangs fighting amongst themselves. “The remaining son, who was freed of a murder charge three weeks ago, is in the Muslim gang business. “Two nights back there was a shooting near us. My brother-in-law and wife were murdered in their beds. A rival gang is claiming my son is responsible. Now they want revenge.
Three men with guns
“Yesterday, three men came with guns to my house. They were looking for my son. They asked me for my daughter who was nursing her newborn. They insisted she come out. When she came to the door they told us we have until 12 o’clock to ride out from the place. “My daughter has two children with two different fathers who are in Muslim gangs but they don’t give a s--- about her. They will kill her in cold blood if they had to. When her brothers lived there Muslim men used to come to the house and pray, and do gang business. That is how she got involved with them. There are photographs of different mosques around the house.
“Out of fear for my life, I left her there. I will never go back on the hill. I am staying in a shelter in town. I eating from people who feed the homeless, running for a sweet drink. “My daughter wanted to come with me, but she has a five-week-old baby and they don’t allow babies here. I only came with the clothes on my back. We have a TV and fridge like normal people, but I can’t interfere with that. People are saying I could go with police and get my stuff, but I have no where to carry anything. If I do they will mash up everything and burn down the place. “I was born in Belmont. I left St Margaret’s Boys RC School in 1962 without any passes. I don’t think I ever worked. I got money all my life through the ten-days. I once sold breadfruit and sno-cone outside Belmont Junior Secondary.
“I had four boys and two girls. When my wife and I separated I had a restraining order. The children lived with her. “My wife was sick with the Aids virus. My first son went to trade school in John John. I can’t recall if he went to secondary school. “I don’t know if they went to school or what, maybe just till they got fed up. They had no supervision. “They don’t have any passes. They would rob people to live. That was their style. Stick up a store, go in and take six pairs of shoes worth thousands of dollars. “The bottom line is they were not willing to work for money. If you or I have a proper home or car, they are trying to take that. They figure if they have a gun they have a right to anything.
His brother shot him
“I wasn’t present when my first son was shot at 20. His nickname was Theifing. I believe his brother shot him dead. They stuck together to cover the terrible impact of that. “Their mother was too sick to tell them anything. I didn’t even know they were so vicious, so far gone in the gang-related business. I was devastated when I heard. “My second son died in the ghetto in Nelson Street. They called him Stumpy. He was gunned down there. He was 18. I can’t remember him, but people say he was just like me. “The smallest one was gunned down in John John. He was 17. Just after his brothers died he picked up a gun. He wanted to follow his brother’s pathway.
“They are not my responsibility. I was absent during their upbringing. I didn’t go to the house for 12 years. I had a restraining order from the court from the premises. I didn’t go to their funerals. Well, maybe one—I can’t remember for which son. “I was on the streets. I was on drugs. Still, I wasn’t lazy. I know how to earn a shilling. My parents grow me up as an Adventist. How do I live? I pick up bottles, clean a yard, sell sno-cones. I suffer with asthma, and I am a diabetic. I don’t have regrets. “I don’t take responsibility. You make your children you don’t make their mind. From the time you talk to children concerning anyone else they say that is their brethren. “My son could gun me and his sister down in cold blood any day. “I can’t say I was ever happy. Life is a struggle. It’s about how you accept it. To achieve life you have to live one day at a time. ”
-As told to Ira Mathur in June 2008.
This is what ah talking bout all the time, a vicious circle that no law abiding citizen have the resources to fix on their own.
The man's garndchildren surely going to grow up in the gangsta way unless their is intervention. The state must take action , take the innocents out of this state of lawlessness before they too become the problem, this thing I saw since the mid 90's, 15 yr olds with babies and their mothers also pregnant and no real sense of family.
How you could expect this girl to know anything else in life and have a positive impact on her kids?
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That my friend is depressing! :-[ never have i read or heard such a sad story. now my cousins have simular stories, but this one topped it!
fishes, that man is wotless though, the only reason i give him ah bligh is BC he was hooked on drugs, but if he lead ah drug free life then i would've held him responsible, restraining order and all.
if i have children on this globe that i know of, which i do, and they're out there running around, then i want some sort of controll in their lives! i'm not bringing children in this world and leave it up to a woman alone tuh supervise and provide care. that is utter madness!
as we know the world changing, so it's not like 30 yrs ago where fellas used tuh have kids and bounce leaving the woman wid the responsibility tuh provide full care.
as we know back then ppl lived more communal life styles, where the whole area would look out for children and there was the heavy colonial disapline still in effect which made it hard for yutes tuh get totally out of hand, also back then we didn't have all this heavy foriegn influence, AKA hollywood, and the music industry, mtv,HBO, hot 97 alike!
today's children need heavy supervision tuh escape the snares that these money hungry westerners set for the young minds, no wonder the yutes so callous.
back then we had big bird, ernie, flipper, and morgan freeman from electric company as role models, today we have grand theft auto and JZ tuh baby sit we kids and a thriving porn industy that can be accessed any where on line or at any corner deli in the hood.
them old men in T&T never impressed me!! they were abusive, distant, callous, took no pride in anything!
all they did was drink rum beat their women, rebuke and abuse their kids instead of taking time to teach them!
liming wid their boys and get wasted was their #1 priority and favorite pass time, then to top it off they went home after getting wasted and tortured their family!
another thing i don't like about them is their uncanny ability to sell out! even a nation if it served their purpose! hek! they would sell their mudda anall for financial gain. no wonder the yutes so dunce!
BC their grand fathers were absent from their fathers lives and their fathers theirs.
proper father hood is ah serious deterant from all kinda societal i'll, most ppl have no idea what a powerfull tool good caring fathers could mean for a society.
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Dear Martin. Please go. Thank you.
http://www.gamewellandtrulyover.com/2009/06/dear-martin-please-go-thank-you.html
It's one thing if you suspect that someone is incompetent. It's quite another when they hold their hands up and admit it. Martin Joseph really needs to resign as the Minister of National Security on Trinidad and Tobago, because this article below implies to me that he is completely out of ideas. I've pasted the article below with my comments in ( ).
Joseph on rising murder rate: T&T between a rock and a hard place
Gail Alexander - Published: 19 Jun 2009- Trinidad Guardian
With the murder rate nearly doubling in two years, National Security Minister Martin Joseph yesterday admitted that T&T was “between a rock and a hard place” as far as trying to reduce the crime scourge (Well that's just fantastic, isn't it? You don't know what you're doing. Yet you're still in charge of the security of one and a half million people). Despite various anti-crime measures in recent years, T&T’s crime situation continues unabated (No, "continues unabated" implies a level of consistency. This is clearly an increasing trend) because the environment continues to change (What environment? Which environment? I'm not sure if Mr Joseph was being vague on purpose or if this is just bad reporting, but claiming crime on "the environment" is news to me), Joseph said at yesterday’s weekly media briefing.
He noted that the 2009 homicide rate now stands at 258, after the killing of Tecia Henry (258 is not a rate; 258 is a count. A rate involves two measurements, such as "a completely unacceptable number of kidnappings and murders per week, because you are clearly incompetent"). He said the rate stood at 237 for the corresponding period in 2008 and 130 for the same period in 2007. Joseph noted that the 2008 figure is 8.86 per cent ahead when compared with the same period last year. Largest homicide increases were in the southern, western, northern, central, south-western and Tobago divisions (So you're safe in the East apparently. Let's all move to Arima!), with the largest—100 per cent—change in the southern area. (Change? Would that be a positive change or a negative change? Wait, I think we can guess)
According to other statistics, gang related murders (112) were the highest probable cause of homicides between January and June 17, 2009. This was followed by robbery related homicides (36), revenge killings (30) (Can you really prove if something is a revenge killing? I mean you can definitely suspect, but I'm not sure I would make it a separate category. Nor am I sure we even need separate categories at all) and drug related homicides (26). Asked why the situation continues to worsen despite various measures and plans, Joseph said, “The environment continues to change.” (Ah, the environment. We meet again) Joseph said that on the morning Henry’s body was found in Laventille, he held talks with the Inter- Religious Organisation at a meeting which was scheduled since May.
He said one IRO member told him that until the Government treated efficiently with guns and drugs entering T&T, one would continue to see the current pattern (Let's recap: the man in charge of the security of one and a half million people is taking drug and crime advice from religious leaders. I'm not saying their advice isn't useful, but shouldn't it generally be the other way around?). Joseph said another meeting would be held with the IRO in two weeks to obtain the group’s proposals (sigh...) He revealed that legislation to curb guns and gangs would be part of omnibus legislation to be brought to Parliament. The package also includes an intercept (wire-tapping) bill and the Official Secrecy Act pertaining to matters concerning national security. (wait wait...something constructive in this article? I'm genuinely stunned)
These may be submitted to the National Security Council by month’s end, and will require Opposition support for passage, he added, Joseph assured that the “blimp” airship was providing police with valuable intelligence information and that all 500 CCTV cameras around the capital were working (More specifics...). On children increasingly becoming targets, Joseph said law enforcement would continue doing as much as they could (and back to the vagueness).
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So Martin goes and d next joker comes and he fails and then he goes. Where will it end. D ex PM once held d ministry and throw he hand in d air.
Until a govt eh in bed wit peeps who bringin in guns and drugs no matter who is d minister d crime rate go b what it is.
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These criminals not even stopping to ketch dey breath.
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=161493635
Life goes on...or not. But doh worry life sweet once you not the one getting killed
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So Martin goes and d next joker comes and he fails and then he goes. Where will it end. D ex PM once held d ministry and throw he hand in d air.
Until a govt eh in bed wit peeps who bringin in guns and drugs no matter who is d minister d crime rate go b what it is.
no. it don't have to be so if you don't LET it be so. f**k the norms of who next in line is who was there the longest. that don't make no fukin sense. throw that sh1t out the window and start DEMANDING competence just like we demand it from the coach of our national football team - bertille there the longest so he should be the next coach?
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So Martin goes and d next joker comes and he fails and then he goes. Where will it end. D ex PM once held d ministry and throw he hand in d air.
Until a govt eh in bed wit peeps who bringin in guns and drugs no matter who is d minister d crime rate go b what it is.
no. it don't have to be so if you don't LET it be so. f**k the norms of who next in line is who was there the longest. that don't make no f**kin sense. throw that sh1t out the window and start DEMANDING competence just like we demand it from the coach of our national football team - bertille there the longest so he should be the next coach?
We need somebody wit balls 2 lock up d big bois wo bringin in d guns and drugs. Until dat happen matters not who is d PM Min of Nat Sec. D Police have 2 lock up big bois.
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WTF!!! i now reading that her mom told other bandits to bring in their guns..AND SHE WILL DO THE SAME.. Its reported in the todays express. Well ah hope the police already by she front door.
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WTF!!! i now reading that her mom told other bandits to bring in their guns..AND SHE WILL DO THE SAME.. Its reported in the todays express. Well ah hope the police already by she front door.
Yuh just waste a hope dey breds
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WTF!!! i now reading that her mom told other bandits to bring in their guns..AND SHE WILL DO THE SAME.. Its reported in the todays express. Well ah hope the police already by she front door.
Yuh just waste a hope dey breds
LOL!! A hope is a terrible thing to waste
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http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=161501286
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=161501282
I really don't know why I does even bother posting this shit anymore
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8361389.stm
Australia 'sorry' for child abuse
Children waiting outside the SS Asturias
Many of the children were lied to about their parents being dead
Australian PM Kevin Rudd has apologised to the hundreds of thousands of people, some British migrants, who were abused or neglected in state care as children.
Mr Rudd said he was "deeply sorry" for the pain caused to the children and their extended families.
He said he hoped the national apology would help to "heal the pain" and be a turning point in Australian history.
Some 500,000 "forgotten Australians" were abused or neglected in orphanages and children's homes from 1930 to 1970.
The Canberra ceremony is being attended by hundreds of people forced to migrate to Australia when young.
Sandra Anker was sent out to Australia when she was six years old
Kevin Rudd is also offering an apology to child migrants taken from the UK to Australia after the war, often without their parents' consent.
On Sunday, the UK government said the British prime minister would apologise for the forced migration policy next year.
'Lost childhoods'
"We are sorry," Mr Rudd told a gathering of 1,000 of the victims at Parliament House.
"Sorry for the tragedy - the absolute tragedy - of childhoods lost."
"Sorry that as children you were taken from your families and placed in institutions where so often you were abused. Sorry for the physical suffering, the emotional starvation and the cold absence of love, of tenderness, of care."
HISTORY OF UK CHILD MIGRANTS
UK the only country with a sustained history of child migration - over four centuries
In 1618, 100 sent from London to Richmond, Virginia
In total 130,000 sent from the UK to Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia) and Australia
Post-war, 7,000 shipped to Australia and 1,300 to New Zealand, Rhodesia and Canada
Source: Child Migrants Trust
Ordeal of Australia's child migrants
Send us your comments
Mr Rudd said the government would work to ensure that such a tragedy would "never happen again".
The prime minister's comments were frequently met with applause from the gathering, many of whom were moved to tears.
Under the Child Migrants Programme - which ended just 40 years ago - the UK sent poor children to a "better life" in Australia, Canada and elsewhere.
As they were compulsorily shipped out of Britain, many of the children were told - wrongly - their parents were dead.
Many parents did not know their children, aged as young as three, had been sent to Australia.
Care agencies worked with the government to send disadvantaged children to a rosy future and supply what was deemed "good white stock" to a former colony.
In many cases they were educated only for farm work, and suffered cruelty and hardship including physical, psychological and sexual abuse.
The founder of the Child Migrants Trust, Margaret Humphreys, has travelled from the UK to Canberra for Mr Rudd's apology.
She said: "The trust has campaigned for over 20 years for this kind and degree of recognition. For child migrants, of course, it has been all their lives and for their families.
"This is a moment - a significant moment - in the history of child migration. The recognition is vital if people are to recover."
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It is a strt
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From NSNBC: The Associated Press
10-year-old gives birth in southern Spain
Debate over who will retain custody; no criminal investigation, officials say
A 10-year-old girl has given birth in southern Spain and authorities are evaluating whether to let her and her family retain custody of the baby, an official said Tuesday.
The baby was born last week in the city of Jerez de la Frontera, said Micaela Navarro, the Andalusia region's social affairs minister.
Navarro told reporters the father of the baby is also a minor, and both the mother and the baby were in good health. Her department declined to give details, including the sex of the baby, but said authorities do not consider this a case of rape and that no criminal investigation is under way.
Spanish newspapers said the mother is of Romanian origin.
The daily Diario de Jerez reported the girl was already pregnant when she arrived in Spain, but did not say when she came to this country. It is not clear if the father is in Spain.
Medical experts warn that because young girls are still growing, they are at higher risk during pregnancy. Studies have shown that teenage girls are more likely to give birth to premature babies and their infants have a higher chance of dying by age one.
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HUH? well yes.
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HUH? well yes.
CO-SIGNNNNNNNNNNN
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The Romas cyah ketch a break.
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The Romas cyah ketch a break.
Sadly, apparently she can.
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72 charged in online child sexual abuse network
WASHINGTON (AP) - Seventy-two people have been charged with participating in an international child pornography network that prosecutors say used an online bulletin board called Dreamboard to trade tens of thousands of images and videos of sexually abused children.
Attorney General Eric Holder and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said a 20-month law enforcement effort called Operation Delego targeted more than 600 Dreamboard members around the world for allegedly participating in the private, members-only Internet club created to promote pedophilia.
Numerous participants in the network sexually abused children ages 12 and under, produced images and video of the abuse and then shared it with other club members, according to court papers released in the case.
At a news conference at the Justice Department, the attorney general called the criminal activity a "nightmare" for the children."
Some of the children featured in the images and videos were just infants, Holder said.
In many cases, the children being victimized were in obvious, and intentional, pain- even in distress and crying, just as the rules for one area of the bulletin board mandated, the attorney general said.
Napolitano said the amount of child porn swapped by participants in the network was massive, the equivalent to 16,000 DVDs.
Of the 72 charged in the United States, 43 have been arrested in this country and nine abroad. Another 20 are known to authorities only by their Internet names and remain at large.
Authorities have arrested people in 13 other countries, Canada, Denmark, Ecuador, France, Germany, Hungary, Kenya, the Netherlands, the Philippines, Qatar, Serbia, Sweden and Switzerland, but some of those were arrested on local rather than the U.S. charges.
To conceal their conduct, members used screen names rather than actual names and accessed the bulletin board via proxy servers, with Internet traffic routed through other computers to disguise a user's location, according to the court papers.
Participants were required to continually upload images of child sexual abuse to maintain their membership.
Participants who molested children and created new images of child pornography were placed in a "Super VIP" category that gave them access to the entire quantity of child porn on the bulletin board, the court papers stated.
"Super Hardcore" section of the bulletin board was limited to posts showing adults having violent sexual intercourse with "very young kids" subjected to physical and sexual abuse.
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SAN ANGELO, Texas (AP) — A jury convicted polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs of child sexual assault, in a case stemming from two young followers he took as brides in what his church calls "spiritual marriages."
The head of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints stood stone-faced Thursday as the verdict was read. Jeffs, who acted as his own attorney, stood mostly mute for his closing argument, staring at the floor, for all but a few seconds of the half hour he was allotted.
At one point he mumbled, "I am at peace," and said no more. The only noise in the courtroom was the creaking of wooden benches brimming with spectators.
Jeffs, 55, had claimed his religious rights were being trampled on and that God would seek revenge if the trial continued. He now faces up to life in prison. The sentencing phase of the trial began after the verdict was announced, and Texas' attorney general said it could take three days.
Prosecutors used DNA evidence to show Jeffs fathered a child with a 15-year-old girl and played an audio recording of what they said was him sexually assaulting a 12-year-old. They also played audio recordings in which Jeffs was heard instructing young women on how to please him sexually.
The FLDS, which has at least 10,000 members, is a radical offshoot of mainstream Mormonism and believes polygamy brings exaltation in heaven. They see Jeffs as God's spokesman on earth.
Police had raided the group's remote West Texas ranch in April 2008, finding women dressed in frontier-style dresses and hairdos from the 19th century as well as seeing underage girls who were clearly pregnant. The call to an abuse hotline that spurred the raid turned out to be a hoax, and more than 400 children who had been placed in protective custody were eventually returned to their families.
But authorities brought charges against several men from the group, with Jeffs by far the highest-profile defendant.
As the sentencing phase began, prosecutors told jurors they will present evidence that Jeffs had 78 wives, in addition to his legal spouse, and that 24 of them were under the age of 17. Lead prosecutor Eric Nichols also said he would show that Jeffs either witnessed or performed hundreds of polygamist marriages, including 67 church marriages involving underage girls.
Jeffs stood up and made several incoherent objections to what was being said.
"I object to anything pertaining to a religious manner," he said at one point. "A constitutional guarantee involving things sacred must be invoked."
Prosecutors have relied heavily on information seized from the compound, which is in the town of Eldorado, 45 miles (72 kilometers) south of San Angelo, and features a four-story temple of white limestone. Much of the material was discovered in a vault at the end of a secret passageway in the temple and another vault in an annex building.
"You might have asked yourselves," Nichols told jurors during closing arguments, "a lot of people may ask, why would someone record sex? ... This individual considers himself to be the prophet. Everything he did, hour after hour, he was required to keep a record of that."
On one of the tapes played at the trial, Jeffs made a reference to "drawing close" or "being close," which authorities testified is how church members refer to sex. Two female voices said "OK."
"A good wife is trained for her husband and follows the spirit of peace," Jeffs was heard saying.
Another audio tape included Jeffs and the younger girl from a recording made in August 2006 at the Texas compound, according to testimony from Nick Hanna, a Texas Ranger involved in the 2008 raid.
Played in court, it was difficult to decipher, but Jeffs' and a female voice are heard. He says, "I perform this service in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen," then mentions the alleged victim by name. When she says something, he responds, "don't talk while praying." Several minutes of heavy breathing followed.
Jeffs represented himself after firing seven attorneys in the six months leading to the trial. He broke his courtroom silence with an objection marked by a nearly hourlong speech defending polygamy, and twice threatened the judge and the court with warnings of punishment from God.
He refused to cross-examine the state's witnesses, and delayed giving an opening statement until he began presenting his own defense. In that statement, he evoked images of the civil rights movement and mentioned former Mormon leader Joseph Smith Jr. He also asked the jury to remember constitutional guarantees of religious freedom.
The lone defense witness Jeffs called, church elder JD Roundy, spent about 10 minutes on the stand Thursday discussing FLDS history after 4½ hours of testimony the previous evening.
One of Jeffs' many former defense attorneys, Deric Walpole, was asked if it was frustrating to watch him defend himself.
"It took me a while to get used to the idea, but it's about him, it's about what he wanted to do," Walpole said. "It's about that man doing what he sees fit."
Jeffs failed three times to remove state District Judge Barbara Walther from the case, the last rejection coming even without a hearing. He claimed Walther was biased because she issued the warrant for the original raid and was frequently updated as it progressed.
Eleven other FLDS men were charged with crimes including sexual assault and bigamy. All seven of those who have been prosecuted were convicted, receiving prison sentences of between six and 75 years.
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Real disturbing...sad state of affairs this world in.
It is a story that has deeply unsettled millions in China, posing troubling questions about whether three decades of headlong economic development has left nothing but a moral vacuum in its wake.
It begins last Thursday when a two-year-old girl totters into a narrow lane in a wholesale market in the thriving industrial city of Foshan in Guangdong Province and is hit by a small, white van. The driver pauses, and then pulls away, crushing the child for a second time under his rear wheels.
It is not the accident itself, but what happens next — or rather doesn’t happen – that has left millions of ordinary Chinese wondering where their country is heading.
Read more at
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/8830790/Chinese-toddler-run-over-twice-after-being-left-on-street.html
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Cah watch no more of that....I see lots of things in my life, but when you hurt a child, that my friends is real monster thing and a part of humanity dies along with that. PPl could be so heartless, is to fu**in kill the ppl that just pass by and did nothing :frustrated: :banginghead:
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Good Samaritan laws needed. If you have to pay a hefty fine if you don't handle something with a good outcome most people won't chance it. Still no bloody excuse though.
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Not to excuse, but rather give an explanation, I read a comment that in China they are educated to "not help" because then they may be blamed. Else, the hero may become the victim. Which person wants that?
Even more messed up if that is the case which it could be. Those people looked at the child, some even stopped but went on. Maybe they did want to help but because of fear, didn't.
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Not to excuse, but rather give an explanation, I read a comment that in China they are educated to "not help" because then they may be blamed. Else, the hero may become the victim. Which person wants that?
Even more messed up if that is the case which it could be. Those people looked at the child, some even stopped but went on. Maybe they did want to help but because of fear, didn't.
Right here in the USA. My friend son had a car wreck, people showed up on the scene and would not help. He in de car calling out for help and no one willing to assist because they afraid that if something happen they will be blamed and or sued. A college coach who I worked with pulled a woman from a wreck car that was on fired and then fled the scene and was scared that people had gotten his car plates. he was scared that if anything happen he would be blamed.
75 Bystanders (Incl. Police & Firemen) Watch Man Drown in Calif
Posted on June 11, 2011 by Dr. Eowyn
This is what our litigious, bureaucratized society has come to….
Alameda is a small island city across the bay from San Francisco. Last Memorial Day, a man walked into the 60° water off Crown Beach, intent on committing suicide by drowning himself. A crowd of about 75 gathered, including police and firemen, and just watched the man slowly die and eventually go under the water.
The reason?
The public employees say due to budget cuts, they haven’t been certified in water rescue and would risk lawsuits if they had tried to save the man.
Alan Wang of ABC7 reports, May 30, 2011, that Alameda police received a call shortly before noon on Monday from a woman saying her son wanted to kill himself. Raymond Zack, 53, then walked out into the water off Crown Beach. For more than an hour, Zack stood up to his neck in the frigid surf. But Alameda police and firefighters stood by and watched as the man drowned.
About 75 beachgoers could not understand why Alameda police officers and firefighters stood idly by and watched the man slowly succumb to the 60 degree water.
“I thought it was kind of weird that they weren’t going out to bring the guy in, you know, he was out there, his head was above water, he was looking at everybody, there was plenty of time for them to react,” witness Perry Smith said.
“Well, we expected to see at some point that there would be a concern for him and somebody would go out there and pull him in,” witness Gary Barlow said. “It’s horrible. How can we let that happen? How can our emergency personnel allow that to happen? I don’t get it, I don’t understand it.”
The man was a 150 yards out; it was too shallow for a Coast Guard boat and its helicopter was on another call. It arrived too late.
Authorities say they had no choice but to stand on the shoreline. “We’re not trained to go into the water, obviously the type of gear that we have on, we don’t have the type of equipment that you would use to go into the water,” Alameda Police Lt. Joe McNiff said.
The Alameda Fire Department says budget constraints are preventing it from recertifying its firefighters in land-based water rescues. Without it, the city would be open to liability.
Alameda firefighters could not even go into the water to get the body, so they waited until a woman in her 20s volunteered to bring the body back to the beach.
Alas, it turns out that Alameda city had budgeted for eight water rescues.
The city council got an earful from angry citizens; the mayor is calling for an independent investigation; and Alameda Fire Chief Michael D’Orazi, after announcing he would no longer answer questions from reporters, is nowhere to be seen.
Meanwhile, Raymond Zack is still dead.
http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2011/06/11/75-bystanders-incl-police-firemen-watch-man-drown/ (http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2011/06/11/75-bystanders-incl-police-firemen-watch-man-drown/)
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As heartless as it sounds, there is no duty to stop and render aid unless that is in fact what your duty is (emergency response etc.) The call for "Good Samaritan" laws is ridiculous and reactionary. This is not to condone the failure to act... personally I'd prefer to render aid and risk litigation knowing that at least I'd be able to better sleep at night.
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As heartless as it sounds, there is no duty to stop and render aid unless that is in fact what your duty is (emergency response etc.) The call for "Good Samaritan" laws is ridiculous and reactionary. This is not to condone the failure to act... personally I'd prefer to render aid and risk litigation knowing that at least I'd be able to better sleep at night.
I would think (hope?) that a "Good Samaritan" law would be in the form of some level of immunity, rather than a requirement to do something. That might be as much trouble as no law perhaps.
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So no one even bothered to call EMS? No one has a cell phone? Even if it's not their duty to render aid, at least call for help! The first solider nonchalantly walked around the infant, in fact it seemed like he could care less she was injured and helpless. Nah that one rough...
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D Human Race gorn thru. 18 ppl pass that baby straight.? nah!
imagine dogs have a more caring heart than us now. smh
http://www.youtube.com/v/-HJTG6RRN4E
i have no words
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D Human Race gorn thru. 18 ppl pass that baby straight.? nah!
imagine dogs have a more caring heart than us now. smh
http://www.youtube.com/v/-HJTG6RRN4E
i have no words
ENTTTTTTTTTTTT
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You cant legislate morality.
Sad doh. Really sad.
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This is the real china... don't be fooled. Morals are void here. >:(
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I would think (hope?) that a "Good Samaritan" law would be in the form of some level of immunity, rather than a requirement to do something. That might be as much trouble as no law perhaps.
Not sure if this is what E-man intended, but a "Good Samaritan" law as presently contemplated imposes a duty to stop and render aid.
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Not surprised at this occurrence either in location or context. However, I hesitate to put it the way Daft T responded. I'm also hesitant to make a Confucian extrapolation but I will say that it comports with reactions observed in the context of Korea and Japan. The kicker here in terms of sensibilities is obviously that an infant is involved, but some of the same disincentives against getting involved apply.
To be fair, I think there is no cultural monopoly regarding situational ethics. How many people intervened positively in any of the prominent local incidents that have escalated on our streets?
A few years ago, I was standing at a petrol station speaking to the manager ... a car swerved in at fairly high speed ... the passenger - a woman - was screaming and exited before the vehicle could come to a stop. The driver jumped out and started pulling and hitting the woman back into the car. I told the manager to call the authorities. Her response: she didn't wish to get involved. I was stunned.
The Kitty Genovese matter in NYC is probably the most exhaustive example of individuals leaving it in the hands of the next guy ... although some dispute exists as to what ppl in the vicinity were aware of.
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I would think (hope?) that a "Good Samaritan" law would be in the form of some level of immunity, rather than a requirement to do something. That might be as much trouble as no law perhaps.
Not sure if this is what E-man intended, but a "Good Samaritan" law as presently contemplated imposes a duty to stop and render aid.
I also was of the impression that the "Good Samaritan " laws would serve to protect those who choose to serve and tend to others who are injured or ill, rather than mandate that they render assistance. They aim to reduce bystanders' hesitation to assist, for fear of being sued or prosecuted for unintentional injury or wrongful death."
If in fact such laws impose a duty to render aid then I see the potential for ambiguity. What constitutes aid? how much aid is considered sufficient? Is a simple 911 call enough, or should someone pick up the child and take her to the hospital?
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Not surprised at this occurrence either in location or context. However, I hesitate to put it the way Daft T responded. I'm also hesitant to make a Confucian extrapolation but I will say that it comports with reactions observed in the context of Korea and Japan. The kicker here in terms of sensibilities is obviously that an infant is involved, but some of the same disincentives against getting involved apply.
To be fair, I think there is no cultural monopoly regarding situational ethics. How many people intervened positively in any of the prominent local incidents that have escalated on our streets?
A few years ago, I was standing at a petrol station speaking to the manager ... a car swerved in at fairly high speed ... the passenger - a woman - was screaming and exited before the vehicle could come to a stop. The driver jumped out and started pulling and hitting the woman back into the car. I told the manager to call the authorities. Her response: she didn't wish to get involved. I was stunned.
The Kitty Genovese matter in NYC is probably the most exhaustive example of individuals leaving it in the hands of the next guy ... although some dispute exists as to what ppl in the vicinity were aware of.
I put it blunt because this is what I have learned from the Chinese people; through marriage, travel, business and my in-laws. :beermug:
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There was a similar incident in a few months ago. So one does wonder ...
http://www.chinasmack.com/2011/videos/female-bicylist-hit-by-vehicle-run-over-repeatedly-in-ningbo.html
In Ningbo of Zhejiang Province a woman was hit by a three wheeled vehicle, after which she was run over 4 times in succession by 4 different cars. All of the drivers drove away; failing to care whether she was alive or dead. The five drivers responsible have all been brought in.
The accident happened between 7:35 and 8 in the evening. This section of the road didn’t have any CCTV cameras in place, however, by chance a surveillance camera of a company nearby recorded the whole incident.
That night at around 7:35 as a person riding a bicycle was crossing the road from west to east a three wheeled motorbike drove at speed from the south heading north. The front left of the 3 wheeled motorbike hit the front wheel of the bicycle hurtling the cyclist across the ground. Afterwords the 3 wheeled motorbike continued to speed north; escaping from the scene.
Around a minute later a car coming from the fast lane also heading north clearly bounces up a bit as it drives over the victim’s body. Ultimately the car moved into the slow lane and stopped. A man and a woman got out of the car. At the same time a pick up truck came out of the company’s entrance, turned right and stopped in the non-vehicle lane. The man and the woman walked to the side of the pick-up, and after saying a few words with the driver took out a mobile. A short while later the pick-up left the scene with the man and woman also leaving immediately afterwards.
In the ten or so minutes after 3 vehicles drove over the victim’s body. The 3rd vehicle, a truck like vehicle really rolled the victim’s body even further away. The place the woman was first hit was just over 20 metres from the final spot.
From this part of the video we can still clearly see that from when the incident happened to when the traffic police arrived at the scene over 40 cars, motorbikes and electric bikes didn’t stop and call the police as they passed but chose to drive around the victim’s body.
According to an explanation from the civil police involved, the person on the bicycle was a woman almost 22-years-old called Han. After the accident, due to being run over many times, there was no way to save her and she was pronounced dead not long after entering hospital.
The civil police also learnt that the deceased has a 2-year-old child. After the accident, Fenghua traffic police quickly established a crime investigation unit and through careful investigation determined the vehicles involved and arrested all five drivers. After 9 days and 9 nights, this major traffic accident case was finally closed. Mr.Li the driver of the 3 wheeled motorbike who was the first to hit the victim and drive off after has already been taken into custody by the police. The other 4 drivers received administrative punishments.
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You cant legislate morality.
Sad doh. Really sad.
Co-signnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
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Family law judge brutally beats daughter for playing on computer
Revenge of the disabled daughter: Video of 'family law judge brutally beating girl' sweeps web after she posts it on YouTube
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056582/Family-law-judge-brutally-beats-16-year-old-disabled-daughter-belt-playing-games.html#ixzz1cZOE2rhs
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I just read about that tonight... shocking. It wasn't for "playing" on the computer though, was for downloading games and music that "wasn't yet available for purchase"...
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I just read about that tonight... shocking. It wasn't for "playing" on the computer though, was for downloading games and music that "wasn't yet available for purchase"...
Shocking is right. I can't relate to anybody beating someone they are supposed to love in that (or any!) manner - and he is a family court judge??!!
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I watched this with incredulity.
I know that this type of abuse exists but to see it like this was shocking.
I am interested in seeing how this will unfold.
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Why is this so shocking? Is it because he's a family lawyer, Is it because she was mentally challenged? Growing up in de TnT countryside, I see kids getting blows like this all de time.... I remember a girl getting blows like this for liming with ah maxi conductor or kids for stealing stuff, smoking weed, drinking etc...
Yuh doh want to see how dem Afghan and Iraqi does beat they kids either...
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Why is this so shocking? Is it because he's a family lawyer, Is it because she was mentally challenged? Growing up in de TnT countryside, I see kids getting blows like this all de time.... I remember a girl getting blows like this for liming with ah maxi conductor or kids stealing for stuff, smoking weed, drinking etc...
Yuh doh want to see how dem Afghan and Iraqi does beat they kids either...
Man I get licks like that in school in front of everyone. :pissedoff: :'(
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Why is this so shocking? Is it because he's a family lawyer, Is it because she was mentally challenged? Growing up in de TnT countryside, I see kids getting blows like this all de time.... I remember a girl getting blows like this for liming with ah maxi conductor or kids stealing for stuff, smoking weed, drinking etc...
Yuh doh want to see how dem Afghan and Iraqi does beat they kids either...
Man I get licks like that in school in front of everyone. :pissedoff: :'(
My mum use to spell out the crime in blows, word fuh word.
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well we could get into a debate on corporal punishment but from my experience, it never gets resolved.
It is shocking because a hard back man emotionally and physically abusing a minor.
If he try that physical attack with an adult, it is called assault.
When incidents like this fail to shock, that speaks volumes about the type of values our society are migrating towards.
But this is just me speaking from a naive point of view.
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Americans may find this shocking, but we on a trini forum, it's highly probable you'd have seen blows like his dished out in tnt for disobedience. I remember on my last visit to TnT seeing a water color painting of a kid kneeling on a grater as punishment.... and for sometime in Trinidad that was applicable and acceptable punishment...!
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I dunno bout all that nuh, that uncle putting he whole back into dishing out licks.. Add in all the abusive language too, that wasn't no par for the course down here like men trying to suggest.
I get my portion ah licks both home and in school, and i see nuff licks dish out but not with that kinda brute force. Daiz some serious abuse dey..
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keep in mind that many things that were considered acceptable by society in times past are no longer considered acceptable today.
Societies norms, morals and values evolve.
There are people living in Trini who would find this shocking. My cousin and his family were featured in the Guardian a year ago and his style or parenting is a far cry from the style featured in this video or what you describe as being acceptable in Trini.
Here are his thoughts on corporal punishment.
Breaking the cycle
No child is an angel all the time. When Kem is naughty, her parents rely on removal of privileges—or the threat of it—which they find very effective. “First, corporal punishment doesn’t work better than any other form of discipline,” Wayne says, “but it’s easy, it works instantly, so parents use it. “But the downside is you have to constantly increase it to get the same results. “It teaches your child that a violent act is an appropriate way to deal with a conflict. Whatever you do, that’s what they will do. “You can’t go out in the road and beat a person, so why is it alright to assault your child? “For a lot of parents, it’s a cycle: they were beaten, so they beat. But someone who was not beaten will not beat. It’s really about braking negative cycles.”
Source - Guardian (http://test.guardian.co.tt/index.php?q=features/life/2010/09/28/star-child-lee-sings-feed-their-daughter-s-potential-pp)
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Americans may find this shocking, but we on a trini forum, it's highly probable you'd have seen blows like his dished out in tnt for disobedience. I remember on my last visit to TnT seeing a water color painting of a kid kneeling on a grater as punishment.... and for sometime in Trinidad that was applicable and acceptable punishment...!
Just because we have seen worse in Trinidad that doesn't make this sort of thing any less shocking. I mihself get worse cutass than this... doesn't make this any less shocking. Your statement also fails to appreciate that this was a young woman, being beaten by her father... who is a judge, charged with the responsibility of looking out for the "best interests" of children... beating his daughter like this in a society which abhors corporal punishment.
All the talk about Afghans and children kneeling on grater is just distractive nonsense.
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Alyuh have to be kidding me, that not even in the cutarse range. That's a whooping. F@#king joke. The girl eh even pee sheself. Get outta here with abuse nonsense. Take licks for not listening.
I say the man had ah big stick, and smash the girl. Ah couple lash from ah old man who look like he go have ah heart attack. :bs:
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Americans may find this shocking, but we on a trini forum, it's highly probable you'd have seen blows like his dished out in tnt for disobedience. I remember on my last visit to TnT seeing a water color painting of a kid kneeling on a grater as punishment.... and for sometime in Trinidad that was applicable and acceptable punishment...!
the kid kneeling on the grater was me
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Americans may find this shocking, but we on a trini forum, it's highly probable you'd have seen blows like his dished out in tnt for disobedience. I remember on my last visit to TnT seeing a water color painting of a kid kneeling on a grater as punishment.... and for sometime in Trinidad that was applicable and acceptable punishment...!
the kid kneeling on the grater was me
kneeling on grater alone? i used to kneel on grater holding up two big stone in primary school...
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Judge: Daughter posted beating video out of spite
By CHRISTOPHER SHERMAN - Associated Press | AP – 4 hrs ago
http://news.yahoo.com/judge-daughter-posted-beating-video-spite-214103601.html
Hillary Adams, daughter of Aransas County Court-at-Law Judge William Adams, talks …
McALLEN, Texas (AP) — A Texas family law judge says his daughter posted a YouTube video of him beating her several years ago because he told her he was reducing her financial support and taking away her Mercedes.
Aransas County Court-at-Law Judge William Adams issued a statement through his lawyer on Thursday in which he questions his daughter Hillary's motives for posting the secretly-made 2004 video online last week.
The judge does not apologize in the three-page statement for lashing his then 16-year-old daughter 17 times with a belt while she wailed and pleaded with him to stop. He told a TV station Wednesday that the video "looks worse than it is" and that he was just disciplining his child.
Police are investigating and Adams says he will "respond" to any investigations.
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I dunno bout all that nuh, that uncle putting he whole back into dishing out licks.. Add in all the abusive language too, that wasn't no par for the course down here like men trying to suggest.
I get my portion ah licks both home and in school, and i see nuff licks dish out but not with that kinda brute force. Daiz some serious abuse dey..
nope i agree that abuse ,i never seen that in trini .
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17 lash alone?
steups... I used to get 17 in de first flurry alone
men getting on like is cuff to face and belly... is some licks with a belt on she leg and bottom... get to fack outta here
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17 lash alone?
steups... I used to get 17 in de first flurry alone
men getting on like is cuff to face and belly... is some licks with a belt on she leg and bottom... get to fack outta here
I agree with this for the most part, I like most of you got much worse (though I didn't do anything as bad as some of you did apparently ;D), but I don't think the punishment fit the crime really...but then again maybe this illegal downloading was one of this guys big "no-nos" and she should've known that, every parent has some irrational things that they are more against than others and kids learn quick not to cross them even if everyone else does them (like illegal downloading).
I'm from America and I agree that kids here are too coddled often. I definitely think beating is right for some kids who just don't learn from things like timeouts and parents taking away things like the TV, but some kids do get the message from those things. Honestly people who get up in arms over just a paddling make me angry.
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A few mts ago I was at Costco in de Pentagon Mall, a lil white kid was upset that his mom would not buy him a couple video games. He reached up and slapped his mum "plaw" on the face and called her a "greedy bitch". She replied to shoppers, "he's autistic!'' This is a busy Costco, but if it was my mum and I did that, it would make that video look passive to what my mum would have done, and on top of that my dad would have probably killed me. I sometimes agree that american parents are loose with their kids, but if you are too strict, you run the risk of being reprimanded by CPS.
Different Strokes for Different Folks.
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^^^^ After a soccer tournament a lil 10, 11 maybe year old boy arguing with his mom and louding her up, because he's not getting to do what he want. He finally turn to her and tell her their family is the worst and he hate his family, loud. Everyone turn and look at her, I brace myself for the dropkick she was going to rest on he. She casually continue trying to explain to him why he should do what she ask. The dad came and the yuteman drop himself on the floor, shirt off and apparently daiz normal behaviour. Madness yes.
My two take off and head for the car, they fraid to look back.
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Nothing wrong with beating as a defined punishment. Beating in anger to exercise your frustration not helping the child and is needless abuse.
I actually thought he started out okay taking time to get the belt (if that is your mode of punishment) and telegraphing that this was “punishment” to the child was good. Once it become a fight about turning over, threatening to hit to face and he getting more upset than the child he was just wasting time.
The same goes for the licks we use to get hom. Plenty of it was abuse especially if is a parent reacting in th eheat of the moment. Blows does come and go fast but nothing does make yuh think about your folly more than waiting for a punishment and expecting the worst.
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17 lash alone?
steups... I used to get 17 in de first flurry alone
men getting on like is cuff to face and belly... is some licks with a belt on she leg and bottom... get to fack outta here
Thank yuh!!! i've seen some cutarses in my day, and this doesn't even come close! where were you ppl when i was growing up in the seventies??
before i watch the clip , i swore i was going tuh see some cuffs butts and kicks, only tuh see ah yute getting beat wid ah belt, boo fackin hooo! get the fack outa here! joke licks :rotfl: :rotfl:
i doh know, but some ah allyuh probably eh grow up in trini, bc i remember gettin woss licks than this in school, let alone home!
my fardder used tuh hit so hard that yuh would feel the beating way after yuh get it when the swellin was goin down.
doh get me wrong, i not championing abuse, but this was no abuse IMO, it was, for the most part, inappropriate, bc there's no way yuh should be beatin ah teenage girl, and after 12 i believe licks should lock off and ah different method applied, but when they young and they actin up, nothing wrong wid introducing them to the belt. ;D
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dais smal thing man.. she eh wah listen rest licks in she ass......I get so much licks in my days I get immune to licks..
war
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The central flaw in the position taken by those who saying "this is small thing... I get/see worse than that"... is that people, perhaps unwittingly, positing their own experiences as being the "norm". Since the licks we get was "normal"... then this cyah by any stretch be abnormal or abusive. By any objective measure the beating (or "whooping" as elan call it) is brutal. As much as people may not want to categorize the discipline meted out to them as abusive, the fact of the matter is that Trinidad is rife with all manner of child abuse. Abusive behavior is learned behavior, and frankly it not all that surprising to me to hear men playing down the licks that passing in that vid.
We are not a very rational people, we are emotional and react with violence at the slightest provocation. Our parents, by their example, teach us that it is perfectly okay to lash out when others make us upset. Many of us our parents would grab whatever object is close at hand and beat us (in anger, as JDB said) with a focus more on giving vent to their anger, rather than trying to effect corrective behavior. When not physically abusive, many Trini parents are verbally and emotionally (using shame for example) abusive. "Children live what they learn..." we see it being played out in our own interpersonal interactions as well. Then again, maybe is just me.
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The central flaw in the position taken by those who saying "this is small thing... I get/see worse than that"... is that people, perhaps unwittingly, positing their own experiences as being the "norm". Since the licks we get was "normal"... then this cyah by any stretch be abnormal or abusive. By any objective measure the beating (or "whooping" as elan call it) is brutal. As much as people may not want to categorize the discipline meted out to them as abusive, the fact of the matter is that Trinidad is rife with all manner of child abuse. Abusive behavior is learned behavior, and frankly it not all that surprising to me to hear men playing down the licks that passing in that vid.
We are not a very rational people, we are emotional and react with violence at the slightest provocation. Our parents, by their example, teach us that it is perfectly okay to lash out when others make us upset. Many of us our parents would grab whatever object is close at hand and beat us (in anger, as JDB said) with a focus more on giving vent to their anger, rather than trying to effect corrective behavior. When not physically abusive, many Trini parents are verbally and emotionally (using shame for example) abusive. "Children live what they learn..." we see it being played out in our own interpersonal interactions as well. Then again, maybe is just me.
:beermug:
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The central flaw in the position taken by those who saying "this is small thing... I get/see worse than that"... is that people, perhaps unwittingly, positing their own experiences as being the "norm". Since the licks we get was "normal"... then this cyah by any stretch be abnormal or abusive. By any objective measure the beating (or "whooping" as elan call it) is brutal. As much as people may not want to categorize the discipline meted out to them as abusive, the fact of the matter is that Trinidad is rife with all manner of child abuse. Abusive behavior is learned behavior, and frankly it not all that surprising to me to hear men playing down the licks that passing in that vid.
We are not a very rational people, we are emotional and react with violence at the slightest provocation. Our parents, by their example, teach us that it is perfectly okay to lash out when others make us upset. Many of us our parents would grab whatever object is close at hand and beat us (in anger, as JDB said) with a focus more on giving vent to their anger, rather than trying to effect corrective behavior. When not physically abusive, many Trini parents are verbally and emotionally (using shame for example) abusive. "Children live what they learn..." we see it being played out in our own interpersonal interactions as well. Then again, maybe is just me.
Yu is one a dem Parents wey does bawl "go to you room or what" ?
war does shear licks like fust time eh...
war
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Yu is one a dem Parents wey does bawl "go to you room or what" ?
war does shear licks like fust time eh...
war
Beat yuh chile like dat, film it and put it on the internet... leh we see how fast they deport yuh back to Jamaica.
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reaching virtue of spanking even as deaths fuel debate
Evangelical minister urges followers to use 'same principles the Amish use to train their stubborn mules'
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45187537/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/
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all the men hear who say that is small ting must be get licks from your parents outta frustration.i never get licks like that....that is f**kin abuse.....the most i get from meh father is 3 belt cross meh backside.and 1 curtain rod from meh mother when ah was bout 7 years for interferin with the neighbor nanny,ah was the gynaecologist.
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Yu is one a dem Parents wey does bawl "go to you room or what" ?
war does shear licks like fust time eh...
war
Beat yuh chile like dat, film it and put it on the internet... leh we see how fast they deport yuh back to Jamaica.
wey dat one bakes... why di hostility like I touch a nerve or what .. anyway abuse is where dem pastors touching dem little boys.. dais abuse.. wey yu think bout this video yu think this one is abuse too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APrV0UOR-lo
war
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"Hostility"?
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Yu is one a dem Parents wey does bawl "go to you room or what" ?
war does shear licks like fust time eh...
war
Beat yuh chile like dat, film it and put it on the internet... leh we see how fast they deport yuh back to Jamaica.
wey dat one bakes... why di hostility like I touch a nerve or what .. anyway abuse is where dem pastors touching dem little boys.. dais abuse.. wey yu think bout this video yu think this one is abuse too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APrV0UOR-lo
war
dais abuse too ... try that on a adult and see what go happen.
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Yu is one a dem Parents wey does bawl "go to you room or what" ?
war does shear licks like fust time eh...
war
Beat yuh chile like dat, film it and put it on the internet... leh we see how fast they deport yuh back to Jamaica.
wey dat one bakes... why di hostility like I touch a nerve or what .. anyway abuse is where dem pastors touching dem little boys.. dais abuse.. wey yu think bout this video yu think this one is abuse too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APrV0UOR-lo
war
None of that is abuse, especially that last one...honestly it seems he deserves it and it wasn't that bad anyway. Like I said before "go to your room" can work for some kids to get the message. My sister for example, if my parents even raised their voice she started crying so "go to your room" worked. Non-physical punishments always worked on me too (though like I said I never did anything that bad) but I still got the beatings out of frustration rather than something I actually did like some other posters pointed out. Then again some kids don't respond to anything but a good whuppin'.
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Apparently he has been barred from seeing his younger daughter
http://specials.msn.com/A-List/News/Judge-barred-from-younger-daughter.aspx?cp-documentid=31342102
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Anything excessive is bad. The problem is that excessive is different for everyone, so people have a hard time making that judgment call.
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Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest (http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida-boy-killed-neighborhood-watch-seeks-arrest-044537742.html)
By Barbara Liston | Reuters – ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) -
The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.
Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.
"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."
Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.
As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.
Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.
Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.
"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."
Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.
Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.
"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.
"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."
Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."
"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.
(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)
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I just read the story. It is unfortunate that a kid going out to the store ends up getting shot. One thing I am mystified about is why would Zimmerman even confront the youth. Someone called the police and he should have waited until the police arrived. I hope that the youth did not engage in a verbal altercation with Zimmerman because that never helps matters.
I am going to await the full details until I make a judgement on the case.
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I just read the story. It is unfortunate that a kid going out to the store ends up getting shot. One thing I am mystified about is why would Zimmerman even confront the youth. Someone called the police and he should have waited until the police arrived. I hope that the youth did not engage in a verbal altercation with Zimmerman because that never helps matters.
I am going to await the full details until I make a judgement on the case.
as they describe the man as the neighbourhood watch loose cannon.... I could kinda guess how that whole scenario play out, especially as the youth man not from the neighbourhood.
I wonder how many people does dead from gunshot on ah average day in the states
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wey di ass is this neighbourhood watch carrying gun? small childlike dat get killed because this f**ka trigger happy? man hang dat mother cunk eh .. hang him high!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
war
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Zimmerman is a Jew name, we had a similar situation like this in Baltimore.
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Zimmerman is a Jew name, we had a similar situation like this in Baltimore.
Bizarre comment... not sure what this has to do with anything.
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Zimmerman is a Jew name, we had a similar situation like this in Baltimore.
Bizarre comment... not sure what this has to do with anything.
was about to say the same
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Zimmerman is a Jew name, we had a similar situation like this in Baltimore.
Bizarre comment... not sure what this has to do with anything.
was about to say the same
Ditto.
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Zimmerman is a Jew name, we had a similar situation like this in Baltimore.
Bizarre comment... not sure what this has to do with anything.
was about to say the same
Ditto.
ditto and not ingeminate?
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Zimmerman is a Jew name, we had a similar situation like this in Baltimore.
Bizarre comment... not sure what this has to do with anything.
was about to say the same
Ditto.
ditto and not ingeminate?
LOL, this has to be the word of the day.
Even by browser spell check did not know it.
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Zimmerman is studying criminal law so he probably intends to become a police officer.
:worried:
Just now he will be able to do this type of thing without question.
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Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.
Far be it for me to second-guess people legal strategy... lawd knows I done ruffle FS feathers by questioning Townley and dem. That said, I don't get this fixation on the police... unless things are done in some kinda parallel universe way in Orlando, it's the DA's office, not the police that makes the determination whether to charge or not charge someone with a crime, police can only arrest and investigate and follow the advice of the DA's office. Yes they can probably charge, but that's usually at the direction of the prosecution.
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aAccording to this account, the victim and Zimmerman were involved in a physical altercation. As I have already remarked, this could only have led to one outcome.
Zimmerman is most likely going to be acquitted based on self-defense. The sad thing is, if I had been Trayvon, I would have reacted angrily myself. Which one of us would like to followed by a stranger at night? It is natural to feel some level of discomfort and Trayvon, being seventeen and not having the benefit of maturity and experience, most likely escalated matters with Zimmerman.
Unfortunately, I have seen this movie before and know how it is going to end.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/family-of-trayvon-martin-_n_1332756.html?ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false
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aAccording to this account, the victim and Zimmerman were involved in a physical altercation. As I have already remarked, this could only have led to one outcome.
Zimmerman is most likely going to be acquitted based on self-defense. The sad thing is, if I had been Trayvon, I would have reacted angrily myself. Which one of us would like to followed by a stranger at night? It is natural to feel some level of discomfort and Trayvon, being seventeen and not having the benefit of maturity and experience, most likely escalated matters with Zimmerman.
Unfortunately, I have seen this movie before and know how it is going to end.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/family-of-trayvon-martin-_n_1332756.html?ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false
Just because there was a physical altercation that doesn't make the shooting a justified response...the "self defense" must be proportional to threat manifested.
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aAccording to this account, the victim and Zimmerman were involved in a physical altercation. As I have already remarked, this could only have led to one outcome.
Zimmerman is most likely going to be acquitted based on self-defense. The sad thing is, if I had been Trayvon, I would have reacted angrily myself. Which one of us would like to followed by a stranger at night? It is natural to feel some level of discomfort and Trayvon, being seventeen and not having the benefit of maturity and experience, most likely escalated matters with Zimmerman.
Unfortunately, I have seen this movie before and know how it is going to end.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/family-of-trayvon-martin-_n_1332756.html?ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false
Just because there was a physical altercation that doesn't make the shooting a justified response...the "self defense" must be proportional to threat manifested.
This is what Chief Bill Lee has said on the issue (Quote taken from the Story):
“He felt the need to defend himself,” Lee said. “ I don’t think it was his intent to go and shoot somebody” that night.
The critical issue here is whether Chief Bill Lee's assessment is legally sound. He is going to deliver the results of his police department's investigation, based on his questioning of the the victim's and Zimmerman's family, to the Seminole County State Attorney's Office.
Now, I am not a qualified legal mind and do not pretend to be, so perhaps you can shed some light on what constitutes Lee's need to defend himself. From a layman's point of view, I would assume this would mean that Zimmerman's self-defense claim would be justified if Trayvon had either threatened to shoot him or actually attempted to brandish and discharge rounds from a firearm.
What you think? What constitutes grounds for self-defense?
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It doesn't matter what the police chief says... he wasn't there and is basing that on the account of the shooter. Self-defense requires a response proportional to the threat. In order to successfully mount a claim of self-defense in this case Zimmerman would have to prove that he was confronted by a threat of death or serious bodily injury. Hard to make that argument with a straight face, unless he was deathly allergic to Skittles or ice tea.
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aAccording to this account, the victim and Zimmerman were involved in a physical altercation. As I have already remarked, this could only have led to one outcome.
Zimmerman is most likely going to be acquitted based on self-defense. The sad thing is, if I had been Trayvon, I would have reacted angrily myself. Which one of us would like to followed by a stranger at night? It is natural to feel some level of discomfort and Trayvon, being seventeen and not having the benefit of maturity and experience, most likely escalated matters with Zimmerman.
Unfortunately, I have seen this movie before and know how it is going to end.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/08/family-of-trayvon-martin-_n_1332756.html?ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false
Just because there was a physical altercation that doesn't make the shooting a justified response...the "self defense" must be proportional to threat manifested.
This is what Chief Bill Lee has said on the issue (Quote taken from the Story):
“He felt the need to defend himself,” Lee said. “ I don’t think it was his intent to go and shoot somebody” that night.
The critical issue here is whether Chief Bill Lee's assessment is legally sound. He is going to deliver the results of his police department's investigation, based on his questioning of the the victim's and Zimmerman's family, to the Seminole County State Attorney's Office.
Now, I am not a qualified legal mind and do not pretend to be, so perhaps you can shed some light on what constitutes Lee's need to defend himself. From a layman's point of view, I would assume this would mean that Zimmerman's self-defense claim would be justified if Trayvon had either threatened to shoot him or actually attempted to brandish and discharge rounds from a firearm.
What you think? What constitutes grounds for self-defense?
How can Zimmerman claim self defense when he was the one that initiated the altercation?
From a totally simplistic perspective, the fellah was going about his business before he was confronted by a man who as it turned out was carrying a gun. Had he not been needlessly accosted based on an unfounded suspicion, he would be alive today. Zimmerman has a case to answer.
Anyway, i suspect the law will take its course here.
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This is my guess as to how the incident played off:
Zimmerman see a lil black youth probably dressed a certain way, probably walking with a lil bop in his step, and hence stereotyped the youth as "a threat", confronted him and ask him wha de hell you doing in this complex...youth probably a lil rebellious musse bawl who is you - dais none of your business and FYI, my family living here... Zims reply show me some proof that your family living here, I am capt of the neighbourhood watch and I have the power to ensure safety of the complex....Youth watch him and bawl, soldier come outta my f*ckin way eh...My uncle livin' in that building and I doh hadda show you nuttin', ride out...with that a lil scuffle took place - Zims was probalby comin' second in the tussle, loss his cool and pull the trigger...
Don't imagine Zim set out to shoot anybody, but can't see how any degree of self defense warranted a shooting. I just can't see it.
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This is my guess as to how the incident played off:
Zimmerman see a lil black youth probably dressed a certain way, probably walking with a lil bop in his step, and hence stereotyped the youth as "a threat", confronted him and ask him wha de hell you doing in this complex...youth probably a lil rebellious musse bawl who is you - dais none of your business and FYI, my family living here... Zims reply show me some proof that your family living here, I am capt of the neighbourhood watch and I have the power to ensure safety of the complex....Youth watch him and bawl, soldier come outta my f*ckin way eh...My uncle livin' in that building and I doh hadda show you nuttin', ride out...with that a lil scuffle took place - Zims was probalby comin' second in the tussle, loss his cool and pull the trigger...
Don't imagine Zim set out to shoot anybody, but can't see how any degree of self defense warranted a shooting. I just can't see it.
I am inclined to agree with your re-enactment. Zimmerman shoulda jess follow orders and stay put. If I was in charge of a neighbourhood watch, no way I getting involved in a potentially dangerous situation. Zimmerman did not understand his role. Leave the confrontation to the professionals.
Given the underlying hostility and contempt of the humanity of African-Americans in the Anglo-Saxon tribal USA, I would not be surprised in the least if Zimmerman goes on with his life as normal, while Trayvon's family is left to grieve. Knowing the M.O., there will probably a brief period of impotent outrage following the non-charge of the Trayvon and then things will continue as normal.
I glad I eh grow up in the US as a black person yes. The status of being a racial minority in a hostile environment is a hell of a thing.
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Clearing up the reference to Zimmerman being a Jewish name-
Noticed that the media and press was reporting Zimmerman being "white", not that there is anything wrong with this or his ethnicity or religion. I noticed also that this community is in a heavily Jewish dominated area. As with other heavily jewish communities for e.g. Baltimore/Parkville/Pikesville an "armed" community watch is enforced or encourage, even if the area is gentrified. The shooting or beating of a "black kid" in a community watched neighborhood has not been uncommon in the last years. While I'm pro 2nd Amendment, I'm not in favor of these armed community watches. A few years a similar situation played out in Baltimore, (kid minding his own business, was cornered for wandering after dark in their community, refused to answer when questioned and was beaten) The main "beater" was taken to prison (released on bail, by a Jewish Judge) and fled to Israel. I think the story ends abruptly when Zimmerman is classified as "white" since there has been a number of beatings and harassments for just being black in these heavily Jewish Dominated Communities.
(I'm not anti-semetic)
The Baltimore Story
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/01/21/brother-charged-in-neighborhood-watch-attack/
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ah does ridicule dem fellas dat talk about "movin' smart" but dis ting seem very avoidable even from someone with a maturity of a 17-year old.
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Apparently this is Zimmerman.
(http://www.singleblackmale.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/George-Zimmerman.jpg)
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I eh know the legal authority/ power that a neighborhood watch has, but if I was a police officer responding to this, after I learn that Zimmerman was told to leave the youth alone until police reach, and there was no real change in the youth's activity (he eh start robbing somebody or something), I woulda really want to know how the youth end up being shot and just to cover my own ass, I woulda haul Zimmerman off to jail forthwith....at least manslaughter.
Cyar understand what's the holdup.
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ah does ridicule dem fellas dat talk about "movin' smart" but dis ting seem very avoidable even from someone with a maturity of a 17-year old.
You have to be freaking joking. Get outta here with that stupid talk. Why ah black man cyah walk where he want, f@#k that sh!t.
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ah does ridicule dem fellas dat talk about "movin' smart" but dis ting seem very avoidable even from someone with a maturity of a 17-year old.
You have to be freaking joking. Get outta here with that stupid talk. Why ah black man cyah walk where he want, f@#k that sh!t.
Wit ah bag of skittles no less.
Sometimes I wonder if some white folks find the presence of African-Americans so distasteful, why the hell the slave traders didn't leave the Africans alone in Africa. They were living their lives quite comfortably.
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Family of slain boy outraged shooter remains free (http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/16/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=us_c1)
By the CNN Wire Staff
updated 10:48 AM EDT, Fri March 16, 2012
(CNN) -- The family of a 17-year-old unarmed Florida boy gunned down last month is outraged that the shooter remains free.
"It's surprising. It's shocking," said Tracy Martin, father of Trayvon, shot dead in Sanford. "It lets me know that justice is just not being served here. All we want is justice for our son. We're not asking for anything out of the ordinary."
Trayvon Martin was returning from a convenience store to the home of his father's fiancee in a gated community around sunset on February 26. A neighborhood watch captain, George Zimmerman, 28, saw the teen and called 911 to report a suspicious man, authorities said.
The 911 dispatcher told Zimmerman not to confront the person, but by the time police arrived, Trayvon Martin lay dead with a gunshot wound in the chest, said Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee. The teenager was carrying a small amount of cash, some candy and an iced tea.
Toobin: Martin shooting 'appalling' case Zimmerman told police he shot the teen in self-defense, authorities said, and he remains free as the state attorney's office investigates the case. Police said they have not charged Zimmerman because there are no grounds to disprove his story of what happened.
The shooting has sparked outrage in the community, with some accusing Zimmerman, who is white, of profiling the black teen.
The boy's parents and the family attorney were interviewed Friday by CNN's Soledad O'Brien.
Tracy Martin told CNN that if Trayvon pulled the trigger, "he would have been arrested on the spot."
Benjamin Crump, the Martin family's attorney, said Zimmerman should have been arrested.
"He can make that self-defense argument. But that's in court with the judge and the jury after he's been arrested," he said.
Zimmerman's freedom "doesn't pass the common-sense test," Crump said. He said the police department "passed the buck" to the state attorney's office. He said there have been "other instances like this" involving the department.
"And now they are doing an investigation. So more nights go by where these parents go to bed knowing that their son is in a grave and the man who killed their son is sleeping his own bed," Crump said.
Trayvon was a normal, growing boy with a big appetite, his parents said.
"He loved playing football. He loved watching football. He loved basketball," said his mother, Sybrina Fulton. "He loved to eat everything in your house."
Tracy Martin describes the anguish of losing a son.
"It's sad as a father to have to bury your child. As a parent, you never want to imagine about burying your kids. And for me to have to bury my son is just sad," he said.
The Martin family has sought to make the 911 tapes available, but State Attorney Norm Wolfinger said Tuesday the calls will not be made public until the investigation is complete. A gunshot can be heard on the 911 calls that night, police said.
"Trayvon Martin and his family, interested persons, and the public-at-large are entitled to no less than a thorough, deliberate and just review of the information provided, along with any other evidence that may or may not be developed in the course of the review process," Wolfinger's office said in a statement. "We intend to honor that commitment."
Numerous CNN attempts to contact Zimmerman were unsuccessful, and it is unclear whether he has retained an attorney.
"The evidence and testimony we have so far does not establish that Mr. Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. We don't have anything to dispute his claim of self-defense, at this point, with the evidence and testimony that we have," said Lee, the police chief.
Lee said the 911 directions asking Zimmerman not to confront the teenager are not mandatory instructions.
"That is a call taker making a recommendation to him. He's not under a legal obligation to do that, so that is not something we can charge him with," he said. "But it would have been a good outcome ... if Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman never came in contact with one another."
In a letter sent to U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People expressed doubt in the Sanford Police Department and asked the Justice Department to review the case.
"The NAACP has no confidence that, absent federal oversight, the Sanford Police Department will devote the necessary degree of care to its investigation," the letter said. "We therefore call upon you to detail personnel to Sanford immediately to review the facts, ensure that the Sanford Police Department conducts an impartial, thorough and prompt investigation of the circumstances involving the death of this unarmed teen, and ensure that the responsible person is held accountable if a crime was committed."
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I guarantee you the Justice Department will prosecute him, even if the State opts not to.
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ah does ridicule dem fellas dat talk about nullmovin' smartnull but dis ting seem very avoidable even from someone with a maturity of a 17-year old.
You have to be freaking joking. Get outta here with that stupid talk. Why ah black man cyah walk where he want, f@#k that sh!t.
elan, yuh know in de usa how some people does be when it comes to private property and combine that with de gun culture. Americans doh really believe in rights unless is dey own rights.
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ah does ridicule dem fellas dat talk about nullmovin' smartnull but dis ting seem very avoidable even from someone with a maturity of a 17-year old.
You have to be freaking joking. Get outta here with that stupid talk. Why ah black man cyah walk where he want, f@#k that sh!t.
elan, yuh know in de usa how some people does be when it comes to private property and combine that with de gun culture. Americans doh really believe in rights unless is dey own rights.
I get whey yuh coming from now. :beermug:
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911 calls detail neighbors' terror during shooting of Florida teen (http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/17/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t3)
By the CNN Wire Staff
Sat March 17, 2012
(CNN) -- Terrified neighbors implored dispatchers to send police as a voice in the background screamed for help in 911 recordings released after the shooting of an unarmed Florida teen.
Trayvon Martin, 17, was returning from the store to the Sanford home of his father's fiancee when he was shot last month.
Authorities released seven 911 calls Friday, all of which describe hearing a gunshot.
The teen's parents broke down when they heard the recordings detailing the last moments of his life, said their attorney, Benjamin Crump.
"They are completely devastated, and they are in unbelievable grief," Crump told CNN affiliate WKMG.
Martin was carrying a drink and candy when George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch captain, called 911 to report a suspicious man, authorities said.
The 911 dispatcher told Zimmerman not to confront him. But by the time police arrived, Martin lay dead with a gunshot wound in the chest, according to Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee.
911 tapes released Friday detail moments of terror in the neighborhood as residents made a flurry of calls describing a gunshot and a teen wailing for help.
In some of the recordings, a voice screams "Help, help!" in the background.
"There were gunshots right outside my house. There's someone screaming, I just heard a guy shot," a neighbor says. "Hurry up, they are right outside my house."
Recordings mirrored the same details: A man outside was crying for help, followed by the sound of a gunshot.
"Hurry please ... there's someone screaming outside," a neighbor whispers. "There's a gunshot, hurry up ... there's someone screaming. I just heard a gunshot."
In another call, a woman begs the dispatchers to send help, saying someone is "screaming and hollering" for help.
Moments later, she describes a light at the scene of the shooting.
"Oh my God ..." she said, "There's still somebody out there walking with a flashlight."
Zimmerman told police he shot the teen in self defense, authorities said, and remains free as the state attorney investigates. Police said he has not been charged because there are no grounds to disprove his story of what happened.
"The evidence and testimony we have so far does not establish that Mr. Zimmerman did not act in self-defense," the police chief said. "We don't have anything to dispute his claim of self-defense, at this point, with the evidence and testimony that we have."
Police released the tapes the same day the teen's relatives said the they are outraged that Zimmerman remains free.
"It's surprising. It's shocking," said Tracy Martin, the victim's father. "It lets me know that justice is just not being served here. All we want is justice for our son. We're not asking for anything out of the ordinary."
CNN has made numerous attempts to contact Zimmerman, but have been unsuccessful. It is unclear whether he has retained an attorney.
Some have accused Zimmerman, who is Hispanic, of profiling the black teen.
His father delivered a statement to the Orlando Sentinel this week saying his son moved out of his home after receiving death threats. George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.
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I can't believe none of those homes have security cameras that could have possibly captured any type of activity involving either or both. I bet there was a struggle while the shooter had his gun out and the f*cker shot the kid in the chest.
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http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/17/10732812-family-911-calls-show-shooting-of-black-teen-was-not-self-defense
Family: 911 calls show shooting of black teen was not self-defense
The family of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin are calling on the FBI to investigate the circumstances surrounding the Florida teen's shooting death by a neighborhood watch captain. NBC's Lilia Luciano reports.
By msnbc.com staff and news services
SANFORD, Fla. -- Calls made to police show that a black teenager was terrified as he tried to get away from the white neighborhood watch volunteer who shot him, and that the volunteer was not defending himself as he has claimed, the teen's family told The Associated Press on Saturday.
Sanford police released eight 911 calls late Friday. The neighborhood watch volunteer, George Zimmerman, tells a dispatcher in the first call that he is following 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.
He says Martin is running, but the dispatcher tells him not to follow the teen.
"How can you claim self-defense and you are the aggressor?" Tracy Martin, Trayvon Martin's father, told the AP on Saturday.
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Zimmerman had called police to report a suspicious person walking through the gated community. He has said he shot the teen in self-defense. Zimmerman's father said in a letter to the Orlando Sentinel that his son, who is Hispanic, has been cruelly and unfairly portrayed in the media as a racist.
The teen had gone to a convenience store to buy candy and was walking back to his family's home in the neighborhood.
"This guy looks like he is up to no good. He is on drugs or something," Zimmerman told the dispatcher from his SUV. He added
that the black teen had his hand in his waistband and was walking around looking at homes.
"These a-------. They always get away," Zimmerman said on a 911 call.
The family of a teenager who apparently cried for help before he was shot to death by an armed member of a Florida neighborhood watch group tells TODAY's Amy Robach that they will not rest until charges are brought against the boy's shooter.
He has said he acted in self-defense, but Martin's family said they are now more convinced than ever that Zimmerman should be
charged in the shooting. Several of the 911 calls made by neighbors describe some sort of scuffle or fight outside, someone yelling for help and a gunshot.
"(Zimmerman) was chasing him, he was following him, and my son was afraid," Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon Martin's mother, told the AP.
"He didn't know who this stranger was."
Tracy Martin said the calls paint a stark picture of what were his son's final moments.
"He was yelling for help, and no one could help him. He saw his life being taken away from him," Tracy Martin said.
That assertion was bolstered by two other neighbors who came forward on Friday, according to a report from NBC Miami.
The two women, roommates, came forward to say they heard the teen calling for help.
"I feel it was not self-defense, because I heard the crying, and if it was Zimmerman that was crying, Zimmerman would have continued crying after the shot went off," said Mary Kutcher, speaking to television reporters.
The case has been turned over to the State Attorney's Office, which can decide whether to file charges or present evidence to a
grand jury.
Trayvon Martin's family said they will continue pushing for charges to be filed against Zimmerman.
"We're hoping this doesn't happen again to another family, and that America opens their eyes ... even though this won't bring
Trayvon back, we don't want there to be another Trayvon," Tracy Martin said.
Moments after Zimmerman's first call, dispatchers were bombarded by seven 911 calls from frantic neighbors describing a fight
between two men, screaming and then a gunshot.
"There is somebody screaming outside," one female caller said, as an unknown male voice can be heard crying in the background.
Then a shot is heard.
A male caller described a physical altercation between Martin and the shooter.
"I just heard a shot right behind my house," The caller said.
"They're wrestling right behind my porch. The guy is yelling `Help.' I'm not going outside."
Earlier Friday, Martin's parents called on the FBI to take over the investigation, saying they no longer trusted the Sanford police
department.
Sanford police Sgt. David Morgenstern said the department stands by its investigation but welcomes help from any outside agency. FBI agent David Couvertier said the agency has been in contact with Sanford police and is monitoring the case.
"We are committed to having somebody review this to see if we made a mistake," said Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett. "If we made
missteps and there is something there, we will act accordingly."
Several Sanford residents who spoke to The Associated Press Friday said they think there would have been an arrest already if
the shooter had been black and the deceased had been white. They said blacks and whites in this city of 53,000 residents were pretty much in agreement that an injustice had been done with no one arrested, and that there was no racial divide in how the case is being perceived. The city is 57 percent white and 30 percent black.
It has a median household income of almost $42,000.
"It's just about ... to be able to take somebody's life in 2012 and not even go to jail for it, that is just sad. No matter, for
any color. Not just black or white. Any color," Ladonna Williams, 38, who is black, said as she shopped at the Seminole Towne Center
shopping mall, more than a mile from where the shooting took place.
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In the letter to the Sentinel, Zimmerman's father says his son has received death threats and moved out of his home. George
Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.
"He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The media portrayal of George as a racist
could not be further from the truth."
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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One of the witnesses, the first on the scene, said that she heard someone screaming for help and that it was Trayvon, not Zimmerman. She also said that the police changed her statements and didn't take her seriously when she tried to follow up to give more details. Mary Cutcher is her name and she was present with her roommate, they both collaborate each other's statements, and are adamant that what they heard was not consistent with self-defense. From what they describe it seems a scuffle took place, but elsewhere, then Zimmerman (who probably had his ass handed to him) followed the kid to outside her home, and shot him... not necessarily in cold blood, but shot him all the same.
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sign N seal ..
http://www.change.org/petitions/lets-get-justice-for-trayvon-martin?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition&utm_term=autopublish
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The fuss day one ah allyuh who like tuh play fair minded and objective lose one of allyuh chiren to ah trigger happy whiteman, ah will be here waiting tuh see if allyuh go remain cool and collective about the situation, bc i know if dat was ah white boy in bussup jeans wid tattos and earings, he would not have been accosted.
i does pray dat none ah dem fellas eh come round my family wid dat gun shootin business, bc i tellin allyuh, i puulin ah fackin rambo!!!!!!! i killin the whole family and den exiling my self to some place weh dey cyar extradite meh, yuh tink is joke! these mdcnts overdoing it now man!
dat mdfkr could never walk free and safe like ah bird while my chile gone through @ his hands, no fackin way on this green earth! i just pray that God protect me from that fate, bc i have real mad blood, and i not taking dat dry sooo! and if i cyar fack them up physically, then i going by pappa neza fuh dey mdcnt, is real fackin war! i just sick of this bull sh!t here in this country where white boys just feel that they have the right to hunt black ppl chiren. :frustrated:
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The fuss day one ah allyuh who like tuh play fair minded and objective lose one of allyuh chiren to ah trigger happy whiteman, ah will be here waiting tuh see if allyuh go remain cool and collective about the situation, bc i know if dat was ah white boy in bussup jeans wid tattos and earings, he would not have been accosted.
i does pray dat none ah dem fellas eh come round my family wid dat gun shootin business, bc i tellin allyuh, i puulin ah fackin rambo!!!!!!! i killin the whole family and den exiling my self to some place weh dey cyar extradite meh, yuh tink is joke! these mdcnts overdoing it now man!
dat mdfkr could never walk free and safe like ah bird while my chile gone through @ his hands, no fackin way on this green earth! i just pray that God protect me from that fate, bc i have real mad blood, and i not taking dat dry sooo! and if i cyar fack them up physically, then i going by pappa neza fuh dey mdcnt, is real fackin war! i just sick of this bull sh!t here in this country where white boys just feel that they have the right to hunt black ppl chiren. :frustrated:
Well, other people in the USA feel the same way you do, because Mr. Zimmerman has had to leave his family's home to an undisclosed location out of concern for his physical safety as has been documented in posts above. Trust me, I am just as upset as you are and pray that I never have to endure such a distressing incident. However, violence is not the answer, no matter how satisfying it might seem in the short term. Justice, however is. The fact that the police authorities can claim that there are no grounds for arrest, even when subsequent evidence has revealed that Zimmerman had no legitimate grounds for self-defense is a real miscarriage of justice. Honestly, I do not know how Zimmerman or some of the officers in the police department involved in the case can even look themselves in the mirror, much less sleep at night. I have tried to refrain from emoting, but such disregard for justice makes it very difficult.
The larger issue here is that the African-American community has no real power as a collective, the existence of prominent African-American communities (not to mention an African-American President) notwithstanding. If the victim had been a member of any influential group, Zimmerman would have been arrested at the very least.
Unfortunately, Zimmerman is going to get to go on with his life and America's contempt for the black community in America will continue.
Incidents like this really make me want to relocate out of this country and I pray that the day comes when I will finally be able to do it. I am working my hardest to make this a reality.
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The fuss day one ah allyuh who like tuh play fair minded and objective lose one of allyuh chiren to ah trigger happy whiteman, ah will be here waiting tuh see if allyuh go remain cool and collective about the situation, bc i know if dat was ah white boy in bussup jeans wid tattos and earings, he would not have been accosted.
i does pray dat none ah dem fellas eh come round my family wid dat gun shootin business, bc i tellin allyuh, i puulin ah fackin rambo!!!!!!! i killin the whole family and den exiling my self to some place weh dey cyar extradite meh, yuh tink is joke! these mdcnts overdoing it now man!
dat mdfkr could never walk free and safe like ah bird while my chile gone through @ his hands, no fackin way on this green earth! i just pray that God protect me from that fate, bc i have real mad blood, and i not taking dat dry sooo! and if i cyar fack them up physically, then i going by pappa neza fuh dey mdcnt, is real fackin war! i just sick of this bull sh!t here in this country where white boys just feel that they have the right to hunt black ppl chiren. :frustrated:
You have serious issues with white people... that much is clear.
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The fuss day one ah allyuh who like tuh play fair minded and objective lose one of allyuh chiren to ah trigger happy whiteman, ah will be here waiting tuh see if allyuh go remain cool and collective about the situation, bc i know if dat was ah white boy in bussup jeans wid tattos and earings, he would not have been accosted.
i does pray dat none ah dem fellas eh come round my family wid dat gun shootin business, bc i tellin allyuh, i puulin ah fackin rambo!!!!!!! i killin the whole family and den exiling my self to some place weh dey cyar extradite meh, yuh tink is joke! these mdcnts overdoing it now man!
dat mdfkr could never walk free and safe like ah bird while my chile gone through @ his hands, no fackin way on this green earth! i just pray that God protect me from that fate, bc i have real mad blood, and i not taking dat dry sooo! and if i cyar fack them up physically, then i going by pappa neza fuh dey mdcnt, is real fackin war! i just sick of this bull sh!t here in this country where white boys just feel that they have the right to hunt black ppl chiren. :frustrated:
You have serious issues with white people... that much is clear.
bakes when yuh have chirren yuh go understand.........besides providin to their every need, nowadays u have to go the extra mile to ensure they safety.
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White People, You Will Never Look Suspicious Like Trayvon Martin
http://globalgrind.com/news/michael-skolnik-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-race-sanford-florida-photos-pictures
I will never look suspicious to you. Even if I have a black hoodie, a pair of jeans and white sneakers on...in fact, that is what I wore yesterday...I still will never look suspicious. No matter how much the hoodie covers my face or how baggie my jeans are, I will never look out of place to you. I will never watch a taxi cab pass me by to pick someone else up. I will never witness someone clutch their purse tightly against their body as they walk by me. I won't have to worry about a police car following me for two miles, so they can "run my plates." I will never have to pay before I eat. And I certainly will never get "stopped and frisked." I will never look suspicious to you, because of one thing and one thing only. The color of my skin. I am white.
I was born white. It was the card I was dealt. No choice in the matter. Just the card handed out by the dealer. I have lived my whole life privileged. Privileged to be born without a glass ceiling. Privileged to grow up in the richest country in the world. Privileged to never look suspicious. I have no guilt for the color of my skin or the privilege that I have. Remember, it was just the next card that came out of the deck. But, I have choices. I got choices on how I play the hand I was dealt. I got a lot of options. The ball is in my court.
So, today I decided to hit the ball. Making a choice. A choice to stand up for Trayvon Martin. 17 years old. black. innocent. murdered with a bag of skittles and a bottle of ice tea in his hands. "Suspicious." that is what the guy who killed him said he looked like cause he had on a black hoodie, a pair of jeans and white sneakers. But, remember I had on that same outfit yesterday. And yes my Air Force Ones were "brand-new" clean. After all, I was raised in hip-hop...part of our dress code. I digress. Back to Trayvon and the gated community in Sanford, Florida, where he was visiting his father.
I got a lot of emails about Trayvon. I have read a lot of articles. I have seen a lot of television segments. The message is consistent. Most of the commentators, writers, op-ed pages agree. Something went wrong. Trayvon was murdered. Racially profiled. Race. America's elephant that never seems to leave the room. But, the part that doesn't sit well with me is that all of the messengers of this message are all black too. I mean, it was only two weeks ago when almost every white person I knew was tweeting about stopping a brutal African warlord from killing more innocent children. And they even took thirty minutes out of their busy schedules to watch a movie about dude. They bought t-shirts. Some bracelets. Even tweeted at Rihanna to take a stance. But, a 17 year old American kid is followed and then ultimately killed by a neighborhood vigilante who happens to be carrying a semi-automatic weapon and my white friends are quiet. Eerily quiet. Not even a trending topic for the young man.
We've heard the 911 calls. We seen the 13 year old witness. We've read the letter from the alleged killer's father. We listened to the anger of the family's attorney. We've felt the pain of Trayvon's mother. For heaven's sake, for 24 hours he was a deceased John Doe at the hospital because even the police couldn't believe that maybe he LIVES in the community. There are still some facts to figure out. There are still some questions to be answered. But, let's be clear. Let's be very, very clear. Before the neighborhood watch captain, George Zimmerman, started following him against the better judgement of the 911 dispatcher. Before any altercation. Before any self-defense claim. Before Travyon's cries for help were heard on the 911 tapes. Before the bullet hit him dead in the chest. Before all of this. He was suspicious. He was suspicious. suspicious. And you know, like I know, it wasn't because of the hoodie or the jeans or the sneakers. Cause I had on that same outfit yesterday and no one called 911 saying I was just wandering around their neighborhood. It was because of one thing and one thing only. Trayvon is black.
So I've made the choice today to tell my white friends that the rights I take for granted are only valid if I fight to give those same rights to others. The taxi cab. The purse. The meal. The police car. The police. These are all things I've taken for granted.
So, I fight for Trayvon Martin. I fight for Amadou Diallo. I fight for Rodney King. I fight for every young black man who looks "suspicious" to someone who thinks they have the right to take away their freedom to walk through their own neighborhood. I fight against my own stereotypes and my own suspicions. I fight for people whose ancestors built this country, literally, and who are still treated like second class citizens. Being quiet is not an option, for we have been too quiet for too long.
-Michael Skolnik
Michael Skolnik is the Editor-In-Chief of GlobalGrind.com and the political director to Russell Simmons. Prior to this, Michael was an award-winning filmmaker. Follow him on twitter @MichaelSkolnik
Read more: http://globalgrind.com/node/828497#ixzz1pbSIdxVh
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bakes when yuh have chirren yuh go understand.........besides providin to their every need, nowadays u have to go the extra mile to ensure they safety.
Understand what exactly... hatred for an entire group of people? Zimmerman ent even white, he's hispanic... cuban to be precise. But all ah dem is de same, ent? My rage would not be limited to the killer of my child because he's white... or black... or green... or...
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Black militia leader on Trayvon Martin shooter: 'We'll find him'
Najee Muhammad rallying for a stay of execution for Troy Davis
Members of a self-proclaimed "New Black Liberation Militia," based out of Atlanta, GA, say they plan to attempt a citizen's arrest of George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watchman who confessed to fatally shooting the unarmed Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fl last month.
One of the leaders of this group, which is "a multi-faith, spiritual,cultural, scientific, and political instructional institution," according to its website, is a top student of the late Dr. Khallid Abdul Muhammad, a controversial National Spokesman and Representative of the Nation of Islam.
Najee Muhammad, who calls himself "the national commander and minister of the New Black Liberation Institute and Militia," was active in protesting the execution of Troy Davis, who was convicted of and executed for the August 19, 1989 murder of police officer Mark MacPhail in Savannah, GA.
WATCH COMMANDER MUHAMMAD AT TROY DAVIS PROTEST:
The militia's website also states their mission is to "focus on saving and nurturing black children, rebuilding our communities, supporting black women, remaking the black man, re-instilling self respect and self awareness of black people, and re-instilling love for our people, ourselves and our communities."
The law on citizen's arrests varies with each state, and Florida is one that relies on common law. It states that a civilian can apprehend a person who he or she has witnessed commit a felony crime -- usually as a last resort, in the case that the police have yet to arrive and the alleged criminal is fleeing the scene.
Members of The New Black Liberation Militia plan to make a citizen's arrest of 28-year-old George Zimmerman, since local police have yet to detain him.
"We'll find him. We've got his mug shot and everything," said Muhammad.
The problem is, only two people are known to have witnessed the incident -- Zimmerman, who insists that he only acted in self defense (as per stand your ground law), and Martin, who was killed.
State prosecutors will decide whether Zimmerman met the legal standard for the state's self-defense law, which allows wide latitude in using deadly force if someone feels reasonably threatened, or if he shot Martin unlawfully and should be arrested.
Members of the Black Liberation Militia (or anyone who conducts a citizen arrest) could then face criminal charges themselves, due to the fact that Zimmerman has yet to be charged with any crime pending Florida investigation.
In the Florida Court of Appeals case Ripley v. The State of Florida (2005), it was made clear that the citizen's arrest law is identical to an officer arresting someone outside of their normal jurisdiction.
http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/new-black-liberation-militia-plans-to-make-citizen-arrest-of-george-zimmerman.php
http://sites.google.com/site/newblackliberationinstitute/home
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bakes when yuh have chirren yuh go understand.........besides providin to their every need, nowadays u have to go the extra mile to ensure they safety.
Understand what exactly... hatred for an entire group of people? Zimmerman ent even white, he's hispanic... cuban to be precise. But all ah dem is de same, ent? My rage would not be limited to the killer of my child because he's white... or black... or green... or...
hatred fuh anybody corrupt my child,screw color,everybody shit stink and bleed red.
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Florida college students want Trayvon Martin shooter arrested
Trayvon Martin: Sanford police acting like de facto defense team for George Zimmerman
Trayvon Martin: 15 facts you need to know about case of teen shot in Sanford, Florida
White House comments on Trayvon Martin case: 'A local law enforcement matter'
Phoebe Denson, left, Myrtle Hudson march towards the Titusville Courthouse on Sunday, March 18, 2012, in Titusville, Fla. A rally was held demanding justice for Trayvon Martin, a black Florida teenager fatally shot by a white neighborhood watch volunteer. No charges have been filed in the February death. (AP Photo/Florida Today, Craig Rubadoux)
ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) -- College students around Florida are rallying to demand the arrest of a neighborhood watch captain who shot an unarmed black teen last month.
Students were rallying Monday in front of the Seminole County criminal courts building in Sanford and on the campus of Florida A&M University in Tallahassee.
FLORIDA A&M AND FLORIDA STATE STUDENTS RALLY FOR TRAYVON MARTIN
The students are demanding the arrest of 28-year-old George Zimmerman, who authorities say shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin last month during a confrontation in a gated community. Zimmerman's father has said the man is Hispanic and is not racist.
Zimmerman has claimed self-defense. Florida law allows a person to use deadly force if the person believes he or she is facing a deadly threat.
The case has been turned over to the State Attorney's Office, which can file charges or present the case to a grand jury.
http://www.thegrio.com/news/famu-florida-state-students-want-watch-leader-who-shot-trayvon-martin-arrested.php#46784755
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Trayvon Martin: Sanford police acting like de facto defense team for George Zimmerman
Sanford police chief Bill Lee
It has been three weeks since 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was fatally shot by an admittedly zealous neighborhood watch volunteer while walking with a bag of Skittles in his pocket from a convenience store to his father's home in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.
This much is fact: Martin was unarmed. The man who shot him, George Zimmerman, 28, called police to report a suspicious black male and was told by a dispatcher to stand down and let police officers confront Martin, if a confrontation was warranted. In spite of Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee's claims to the contrary, recently released 911 tapes feature Zimmerman making an issue, however minor, of Martin's skin color.
Think Progress: 15 facts you need to know about the Trayvon Martin case
Zimmerman, who has been referred to repeatedly in news reports as "white," is of Hispanic heritage, according to a statement released by his father. Martin, a student at North Miami's Krop Senior High School, did not have a criminal record or school disciplinary record for violent behavior. Zimmerman was arrested and charged several years ago with battery on a law enforcement officer for interfering with another police officer's attempt to arrest Zimmerman's friend. He ultimately pleaded guilty to misdemeanor simple battery, a move that allowed him to remain eligible for a concealed weapons permit in Florida.
WATCH A 'TODAY SHOW' INTERVIEW WITH TRAYVON MARTIN'S PARENTS:
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
And while the palpable tension between residents who argue Zimmerman murdered Martin, the police who've taken on the de facto role of Zimmerman's defense team, and "citizen observers" who've begun to weigh in on this incident online, is understandable, three key principles have been muddled in the fight.
First, Martin didn't "ask for it." A candy run to 7-Eleven does not constitute a death wish. Even though the recently released 911 tapes don't clarify what happened in the moments before the shooting after the dispatcher told Zimmerman to stand down, an angry verbal scolding from Martin to the stranger who has admitted shadowing him in his car wouldn't have translated into, "shoot me!"
Change.Org petition: Prosecute to killer of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin
Online reader comments on Central and South Florida news websites suggest otherwise though, with hundreds of anonymous comments demanding a current photo of Martin, rather than the years-old school pictures that have been released to the media by Martin's family -- the implication being that if it turns out Martin was physically larger Zimmerman, it somehow made sense for Zimmerman to disregard the dispatcher's admonition, and leave his vehicle, gun in hand, to confront Martin.Second, Chief Lee has lamented to the media that since his tenure began, his desire has been to foster positive relations with Sanford's black community, given his department's checkered history where race relations are concerned.
Two years ago, the son of a Sanford police lieutenant was caught on tape punching a homeless man, unprovoked, and it still took seven weeks for other Sanford officers to arrest the assailant.
And in 2005, two armed security guards -- both considered extended members of the Sanford Police Department family -- killed a black man they say was trying to run them over.
If better relations are really what Lee wants, in this case the first thing he can do is avoid the appearance of impropriety by ceasing to refer to Zimmerman in terms and phrases typically reserved for defense attorneys. Rather than defend Zimmerman as being "clean" and a good guy, and denying things about Zimmerman that a listen to those tapes and basic circuit court records checks can prove, Lee should step back and tell all sides dispassionately that the police department is only interested in finding the truth of the matter and his department will withhold opinions on this matter till after the Seminole-Brevard State Attorney's Office decides whether or not Zimmerman should be charged with a crime.
To that point, Lee can order a separate investigation into his officers, whom residents say tried to intimidate them into claiming it was Zimmerman and not Martin they heard crying for help during the fatal confrontation.
Finally, all sides in this case insist to varying degrees that race did or did not play a role in Zimmerman shooting Martin. The uncomfortable truth is they may all be right.
There's enough good science out there that suggests even when we don't think we're weighing superficial qualities like skin color, often we are.
And political correctness be damned, it's that sort of revelation that gives credence to the beliefs of some black men that even when they are minding their P's and Q's they are potential victims of law enforcement gone awry.
In a 2009 New York Times column, David Brooks cited a gathering of neuroscientists and academics where, among other things, scholars and students discussed just how ingrained a behavior it is to categorize people by race and then react to those people based on superficial judgments like skin color.
"Many of the studies presented here concerned the way we divide people by in-group and out-group categories in as little as 170 milliseconds," Brooks wrote.
That's pretty fast, certainly less time than it takes to pull a trigger, or to declare a victim or suspect innocent or guilty.
But if the importance of those studies isn't clear to you, consider Brooks' general take away from the neuroscience gathering: "...But it also suggests that even though most of our reactions are fast and automatic, we still have free will and control."
http://www.thegrio.com/opinion/trayvon-martin-sanford-police-de-facto-defense-team-for-zimmeran.php
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This is the law on which the Martin case is turning and the grounds on which Zimmerman can claim self-defense:
Title XLVI
CRIMES
Chapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE
Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
(b) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
(2) The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
(a) The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or
(b) The person or persons sought to be removed is a child or grandchild, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used; or
(c) The person who uses defensive force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or
(d) The person against whom the defensive force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
(4) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person’s dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
(5) As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.
(b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.
(c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.
To me, it seems that the only defence, if any, that Zimmerman can claim is under (1) (b), i.e. he had reason to believe that Martin was about to unlawfully enter another person's premises or commit some other unlawful act. I am really awaiting the Sanford Police Department and the local legal authority's judgement on this case.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html
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White People, You Will Never Look Suspicious Like Trayvon Martin
http://globalgrind.com/news/michael-skolnik-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-race-sanford-florida-photos-pictures
I will never look suspicious to you. Even if I have a black hoodie, a pair of jeans and white sneakers on...in fact, that is what I wore yesterday...I still will never look suspicious. No matter how much the hoodie covers my face or how baggie my jeans are, I will never look out of place to you. I will never watch a taxi cab pass me by to pick someone else up. I will never witness someone clutch their purse tightly against their body as they walk by me. I won't have to worry about a police car following me for two miles, so they can "run my plates." I will never have to pay before I eat. And I certainly will never get "stopped and frisked." I will never look suspicious to you, because of one thing and one thing only. The color of my skin. I am white.
I was born white. It was the card I was dealt. No choice in the matter. Just the card handed out by the dealer. I have lived my whole life privileged. Privileged to be born without a glass ceiling. Privileged to grow up in the richest country in the world. Privileged to never look suspicious. I have no guilt for the color of my skin or the privilege that I have. Remember, it was just the next card that came out of the deck. But, I have choices. I got choices on how I play the hand I was dealt. I got a lot of options. The ball is in my court.
So, today I decided to hit the ball. Making a choice. A choice to stand up for Trayvon Martin. 17 years old. black. innocent. murdered with a bag of skittles and a bottle of ice tea in his hands. "Suspicious." that is what the guy who killed him said he looked like cause he had on a black hoodie, a pair of jeans and white sneakers. But, remember I had on that same outfit yesterday. And yes my Air Force Ones were "brand-new" clean. After all, I was raised in hip-hop...part of our dress code. I digress. Back to Trayvon and the gated community in Sanford, Florida, where he was visiting his father.
I got a lot of emails about Trayvon. I have read a lot of articles. I have seen a lot of television segments. The message is consistent. Most of the commentators, writers, op-ed pages agree. Something went wrong. Trayvon was murdered. Racially profiled. Race. America's elephant that never seems to leave the room. But, the part that doesn't sit well with me is that all of the messengers of this message are all black too. I mean, it was only two weeks ago when almost every white person I knew was tweeting about stopping a brutal African warlord from killing more innocent children. And they even took thirty minutes out of their busy schedules to watch a movie about dude. They bought t-shirts. Some bracelets. Even tweeted at Rihanna to take a stance. But, a 17 year old American kid is followed and then ultimately killed by a neighborhood vigilante who happens to be carrying a semi-automatic weapon and my white friends are quiet. Eerily quiet. Not even a trending topic for the young man.
We've heard the 911 calls. We seen the 13 year old witness. We've read the letter from the alleged killer's father. We listened to the anger of the family's attorney. We've felt the pain of Trayvon's mother. For heaven's sake, for 24 hours he was a deceased John Doe at the hospital because even the police couldn't believe that maybe he LIVES in the community. There are still some facts to figure out. There are still some questions to be answered. But, let's be clear. Let's be very, very clear. Before the neighborhood watch captain, George Zimmerman, started following him against the better judgement of the 911 dispatcher. Before any altercation. Before any self-defense claim. Before Travyon's cries for help were heard on the 911 tapes. Before the bullet hit him dead in the chest. Before all of this. He was suspicious. He was suspicious. suspicious. And you know, like I know, it wasn't because of the hoodie or the jeans or the sneakers. Cause I had on that same outfit yesterday and no one called 911 saying I was just wandering around their neighborhood. It was because of one thing and one thing only. Trayvon is black.
So I've made the choice today to tell my white friends that the rights I take for granted are only valid if I fight to give those same rights to others. The taxi cab. The purse. The meal. The police car. The police. These are all things I've taken for granted.
So, I fight for Trayvon Martin. I fight for Amadou Diallo. I fight for Rodney King. I fight for every young black man who looks "suspicious" to someone who thinks they have the right to take away their freedom to walk through their own neighborhood. I fight against my own stereotypes and my own suspicions. I fight for people whose ancestors built this country, literally, and who are still treated like second class citizens. Being quiet is not an option, for we have been too quiet for too long.
-Michael Skolnik
Michael Skolnik is the Editor-In-Chief of GlobalGrind.com and the political director to Russell Simmons. Prior to this, Michael was an award-winning filmmaker. Follow him on twitter @MichaelSkolnik
Read more: http://globalgrind.com/node/828497#ixzz1pbSIdxVh
Teju Cole...what will he have to say about this guy? hmmmmmmmmm>???
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The fuss day one ah allyuh who like tuh play fair minded and objective lose one of allyuh chiren to ah trigger happy whiteman, ah will be here waiting tuh see if allyuh go remain cool and collective about the situation, bc i know if dat was ah white boy in bussup jeans wid tattos and earings, he would not have been accosted.
i does pray dat none ah dem fellas eh come round my family wid dat gun shootin business, bc i tellin allyuh, i puulin ah fackin rambo!!!!!!! i killin the whole family and den exiling my self to some place weh dey cyar extradite meh, yuh tink is joke! these mdcnts overdoing it now man!
dat mdfkr could never walk free and safe like ah bird while my chile gone through @ his hands, no fackin way on this green earth! i just pray that God protect me from that fate, bc i have real mad blood, and i not taking dat dry sooo! and if i cyar fack them up physically, then i going by pappa neza fuh dey mdcnt, is real fackin war! i just sick of this bull sh!t here in this country where white boys just feel that they have the right to hunt black ppl chiren. :frustrated:
You have serious issues with white people... that much is clear.
How come every time i post about white folks and their atrocities ppl on here always have tuh put me down as having ah racial problem, it's like yuh can't even criticize white ppl or indians on here without being perceived as ah hater? it's like yuh must hold yuh peace instead of speaking the real around here, and yuh will be ah nice reasonable good guy.
well fack that!! i don't want to be no good "guy" when ppl insist on fackin me up with every opportunity that presented.
all who think i out fuh lunch should really take inventory into the amount of white on black murders in this country for the past 30 yrs, and not by ppl who are lawbreakers, Nooo!! but quite the opposite, man who swear to uphold the law of the land and keep the order.
right now my young teenage son have no faith in the police, as ah matter of fact, my yute is terrified of them, and i had nothing to do with planting that seed of fear either! matter of fact he formed his own opinion by watching the news and seeing all the misconduct by cops and trigger happy white "men" in this country.
it's almost every time i step in my ride the police does be clocking me, it almost like they're on the hunt and i'm human prey, and iza good one, no crime, no guns no drug business, trust meh! but every time i coming home @ night looking for a park, the poo poo does roll on me, and wid real venom! yuh think they does do that in bayridge or bensonhurst?? hell mdfkn noo!! and who have more car thieves and gangsters than those two places!
but yuh should see them on nostrand lower and flatbush ave during rush hour, pullin over and harrasing black ppl tuh try and balance the city's budget on the backs of law abiding hard workin class black folks,when in fact it have white boys who drivin drunk and teenagers/ minors stealin their parents cars to go joy riding without a license on the white and jewish side of town, and is business as usual.
allyuh could stay dey and play level headed even tempered "dudes" if yuhs want, but i on an eye for an eye tip, if yuh show love, it's love in return all day long, and if yuh show me hate?? then is pure hate in yuh MDCNT!!!!! so doh expect love from me if yuhs ah hater!
allyuh could call me what allyuh want! i love all those who love me! that's sense according to malcolm X.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzHoU3tZ2As
and this is the post nation of islam malcolm, the moderate malcolm who changed a lot of his former views.
tuh tell allyuh the truth, for the hundredth time, i don't hate no one for their ethnicity or skin color, but rather for their stinkin ugly nasty ways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=Zn0vHMlavTc
that was nation of islam malcolm, and it was still in context, and reasonable.
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How come every time i post about white folks and their atrocities ppl on here always have tuh put me down as having ah racial problem, it's like yuh can't even criticize white ppl or indians on here without being perceived as ah hater? it's like yuh must hold yuh peace instead of speaking the real around here, and yuh will be ah nice reasonable good guy.
well fack that!! i don't want to be no good "guy" when ppl insist on fackin me up with every opportunity that presented.
all who think i out fuh lunch should really take inventory into the amount of white on black murders in this country for the past 30 yrs, and not by ppl who are lawbreakers, Nooo!! but quite the opposite, man who swear to uphold the law of the land and keep the order.
right now my young teenage son have no faith in the police, as ah matter of fact, my yute is terrified of them, and i had nothing to do with planting that seed of fear either! matter of fact he formed his own opinion by watching the news and seeing all the misconduct by cops and trigger happy white "men" in this country.
it's almost every time i step in my ride the police does be clocking me, it almost like they're on the hunt and i'm human prey, and iza good one, no crime, no guns no drug business, trust meh! but every time i coming home @ night looking for a park, the poo poo does roll on me, and wid real venom! yuh think they does do that in bayridge or bensonhurst?? hell mdfkn noo!! and who have more car thieves and gangsters than those two places!
but yuh should see them on nostrand lower and flatbush ave during rush hour, pullin over and harrasing black ppl tuh try and balance the city's budget on the backs of law abiding hard workin class black folks,when in fact it have white boys who drivin drunk and teenagers/ minors stealin their parents cars to go joy riding without a license on the white and jewish side of town, and is business as usual.
allyuh could stay dey and play level headed even tempered "dudes" if yuhs want, but i on an eye for an eye tip, if yuh show love, it's love in return all day long, and if yuh show me hate?? then is pure hate in yuh MDCNT!!!!! so doh expect love from me if yuhs ah hater!
allyuh could call me what allyuh want! i love all those who love me! that's sense according to malcolm X.
All ah dat from my one little statement? Yuh ever consider therapy breds... serious talk? I cyah be healthy walking arung with all ah dat pent up in yuh chest. :beermug:
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I guarantee you the Justice Department will prosecute him, even if the State opts not to.
Called it... Justice Department to open Inquiry into shooting. (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/03/19/us/19reuters-usa-florida-shooting.html?hp)
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Friend on Phone with Teen Before Death Recalls Final Moments
By Matt Gutman and Seni Tienabeso (Good Morning America)
In the final moments of his life, Trayvon Martin was being hounded by a strange man on a cellphone who ran after him, cornered him and confronted him, according to the teenage girl whose call logs show she was on the phone with the 17-year-old boy in the moments before neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman shot him dead.
Martin's death Feb. 26 has stirred national outrage and protests, partly prompting the U.S. Justice Department's Civil Rights Division and the FBI to open an investigation into the case.
ABC News was there exclusively as the 16-year-old girl told Martin family attorney Benjamin Crump about the last moments of the teenager's life.
"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run."
Eventually he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.
"Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."
The line went dead. Besides screams heard on 911 calls that night as Martin and Zimmerman scuffled, those were the last words he said.
Trayvon's phone logs, also obtained exclusively by ABC News, show the conversation occurred five minutes before police first arrived on scene. The young woman's parents asked that her name not be used, and that only an attorney could ask her questions.
Martin's father, Tracey Martin, and mother, Sybrina Fulton, listened to the call along with ABC News, ashen-faced.
"He knew he was being followed and tried to get away from the guy, and the guy still caught up with him," Tracey Martin said. "And that's the most disturbing part. He thought he had got away from the guy and the guy back-tracked for him."
The teen was killed by Zimmerman while walking back to his father's fiancés home after stepping out to buy Skittles and some iced tea during the NBA All-Star Game. After weeks of relentless pressure, the Sanford Police have decided to release emergency and non-emergency calls placed during the incident.
"These a**holes always get away," Zimmerman says in a call to a non-emergency number.
Dispatcher: "Are you following him?"
Zimmerman: "Yeah."
Dispatcher: "We don't need you to do that."
An altercation soon ensued. A few moments later a torrent of 911 calls flooded in and Martin was killed by a single bullet. Zimmerman claimed self-defense and has yet to be arrested, stoking outrage and claims of prejudice against the police department.
"When George Zimmerman is arrested, tried and convicted I will get a little rest," Tracey Martin said.
According to a statement by the Justice Department, "The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action and the conclusion of the investigation. … The government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person acted intentionally and with the specific intent to do something which the law forbids. Negligence, recklessness, mistakes and accidents are not prosecutable under the federal criminal civil rights laws."
Nearly half a million people have signed an online petition on change.org urging law enforcement officials to step in and arrest Zimmerman. Protests have played out in the Florida town all week with a large gathering expected Thursday.
Zimmerman violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, ABC News has learned. The manual from the Neighborhood Watch program states: "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers. And they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles."
According to Chris Tutko, the director of the National Neighborhood Watch program, there are about 22,000 registered watch groups nationwide, and Zimmerman was not part of a registered group, which police were not aware of at the time of the incident.
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that is real sad. this yute had the wrong reaction to the situation: putting on de hoodie and running away from a NW look too much like tief.
but what a culture in america. is evident de yute and de smallie eh even tink about calling 911 or police. daiz a measure of generations of mistrust. dey were taught: doh call no one. and DAT is what make a ready-made victim.
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that is real sad. this yute had the wrong reaction to the situation: putting on de hoodie and running away from a NW look too much like tief.
but what a culture in america. is evident de yute and de smallie eh even tink about calling 911 or police. daiz a measure of generations of mistrust. dey were taught: doh call no one. and DAT is what make a ready-made victim.
So that justifies him being shot at...?
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that is real sad. this yute had the wrong reaction to the situation: putting on de hoodie and running away from a NW look too much like tief.
but what a culture in america. is evident de yute and de smallie eh even tink about calling 911 or police. daiz a measure of generations of mistrust. dey were taught: doh call no one. and DAT is what make a ready-made victim.
So that justifies him being shot at...?
dt, tings different in canada. people does engage in conversation up here. ah doh believe this could not have been defused with a discussion.
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I guarantee you the Justice Department will prosecute him, even if the State opts not to.
Called it... Justice Department to open Inquiry into shooting. (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/03/19/us/19reuters-usa-florida-shooting.html?hp)
good to see the NYT choosing to focus on the law rather than the race canard.
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that is real sad. this yute had the wrong reaction to the situation: putting on de hoodie and running away from a NW look too much like tief.
but what a culture in america. is evident de yute and de smallie eh even tink about calling 911 or police. daiz a measure of generations of mistrust. dey were taught: doh call no one. and DAT is what make a ready-made victim.
So that justifies him being shot at...?
dt, tings different in canada. people does engage in conversation up here. ah doh believe this could not have been defused with a discussion.
Don't feed me that bull shit, I've faced more racism and intimidation in Canada than in the US, ever try crossing the Canadian Border with a pretty White Canadian Woman, and you black? I see some of the types of conversations that white canadians does engage in with non white canadians... it's not pretty!
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that is real sad. this yute had the wrong reaction to the situation: putting on de hoodie and running away from a NW look too much like tief.
but what a culture in america. is evident de yute and de smallie eh even tink about calling 911 or police. daiz a measure of generations of mistrust. dey were taught: doh call no one. and DAT is what make a ready-made victim.
So that justifies him being shot at...?
dt, tings different in canada. people does engage in conversation up here. ah doh believe this could not have been defused with a discussion.
lol!! boy you like ah bull in a china shop with a loud mating call
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that is real sad. this yute had the wrong reaction to the situation: putting on de hoodie and running away from a NW look too much like tief.
but what a culture in america. is evident de yute and de smallie eh even tink about calling 911 or police. daiz a measure of generations of mistrust. dey were taught: doh call no one. and DAT is what make a ready-made victim.
So that justifies him being shot at...?
dt, tings different in canada. people does engage in conversation up here. ah doh believe this could not have been defused with a discussion.
Don't feed me that bull shit, I've faced more racism and intimidation in Canada than in the US, ever try crossing the Canadian Border with a pretty White Canadian Woman, and you black? I see some of the types of conversations that white canadians does engage in with non white canadians... it's not pretty!
dt, seem like yuh still have on your i-see-racism glasses. ah not on that. ah talking about handling day to day everyday situations. dealing with people whether is road rage, bad drive, security guard in de mall, border agents, po po, jehovah's witness, some shouty oman in a bar, etc.. ah saying handling dese kinds of situations is part of basic social skills a person must have in dis society.
tell me something - when you see a police on de corner, you does pull up your hoodie and run the other way? yuh acting like dat behaviour is excuseable? boy, common sense really eh dat common.
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that is real sad. this yute had the wrong reaction to the situation: putting on de hoodie and running away from a NW look too much like tief.
but what a culture in america. is evident de yute and de smallie eh even tink about calling 911 or police. daiz a measure of generations of mistrust. dey were taught: doh call no one. and DAT is what make a ready-made victim.
So that justifies him being shot at...?
dt, tings different in canada. people does engage in conversation up here. ah doh believe this could not have been defused with a discussion.
Don't feed me that bull shit, I've faced more racism and intimidation in Canada than in the US, ever try crossing the Canadian Border with a pretty White Canadian Woman, and you black? I see some of the types of conversations that white canadians does engage in with non white canadians... it's not pretty!
dt, seem like yuh still have on your i-see-racism glasses. ah not on that. ah talking about handling day to day everyday situations. dealing with people whether is road rage, bad drive, security guard in de mall, border agents, po po, jehovah's witness, some shouty oman in a bar, etc.. ah saying handling dese kinds of situations is part of basic social skills a person must have in dis society.
tell me something - when you see a police on de corner, you does pull up your hoodie and run the other way? yuh acting like dat behaviour is excuseable? boy, common sense really eh dat common.
No racism glasses, but here in de US we does talk things through also... Canada as well as the US has it's flaws when it comes to racism.
My question is what possessed him to shoot the yute? The tapes that were released is very compelling.
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How come every time i post about white folks and their atrocities ppl on here always have tuh put me down as having ah racial problem, it's like yuh can't even criticize white ppl or indians on here without being perceived as ah hater? it's like yuh must hold yuh peace instead of speaking the real around here, and yuh will be ah nice reasonable good guy.
well fack that!! i don't want to be no good "guy" when ppl insist on fackin me up with every opportunity that presented.
all who think i out fuh lunch should really take inventory into the amount of white on black murders in this country for the past 30 yrs, and not by ppl who are lawbreakers, Nooo!! but quite the opposite, man who swear to uphold the law of the land and keep the order.
right now my young teenage son have no faith in the police, as ah matter of fact, my yute is terrified of them, and i had nothing to do with planting that seed of fear either! matter of fact he formed his own opinion by watching the news and seeing all the misconduct by cops and trigger happy white "men" in this country.
it's almost every time i step in my ride the police does be clocking me, it almost like they're on the hunt and i'm human prey, and iza good one, no crime, no guns no drug business, trust meh! but every time i coming home @ night looking for a park, the poo poo does roll on me, and wid real venom! yuh think they does do that in bayridge or bensonhurst?? hell mdfkn noo!! and who have more car thieves and gangsters than those two places!
but yuh should see them on nostrand lower and flatbush ave during rush hour, pullin over and harrasing black ppl tuh try and balance the city's budget on the backs of law abiding hard workin class black folks,when in fact it have white boys who drivin drunk and teenagers/ minors stealin their parents cars to go joy riding without a license on the white and jewish side of town, and is business as usual.
allyuh could stay dey and play level headed even tempered "dudes" if yuhs want, but i on an eye for an eye tip, if yuh show love, it's love in return all day long, and if yuh show me hate?? then is pure hate in yuh MDCNT!!!!! so doh expect love from me if yuhs ah hater!
allyuh could call me what allyuh want! i love all those who love me! that's sense according to malcolm X.
All ah dat from my one little statement? Yuh ever consider therapy breds... serious talk? I cyah be healthy walking arung with all ah dat pent up in yuh chest. :beermug:
Yuhs ah idiot, and ah joker! yuh eh see is talk yuh looking for. sttuueeeppssss.
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I guarantee you the Justice Department will prosecute him, even if the State opts not to.
Called it... Justice Department to open Inquiry into shooting. (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/03/19/us/19reuters-usa-florida-shooting.html?hp)
good to see the NYT choosing to focus on the law rather than the race canard.
No wonder fellas like warner and patrick manning was able to prosper while doing loads of wrong and illegal shyte for decades, that's bc trinidadians are a fackin chicken hearted simpleton ppl!
they are afraid to stand up, and have no interest in doing so either, and if someone decides to stand up, then they are branded as strange or trouble makers.
give these ppl ah bottle ah rum, and mamaguye them with bullsh!t praises, tell them that they have the best carnival in the world, and they are the best looking ppl in the caribbean, and they good wid that. just keep them occupied with with follies, and yuh could rob them blind!
BTW rabbit,why you doh stop embarrassing yuh self on the WWW, yuh fackin uncle charlie.
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that is real sad. this yute had the wrong reaction to the situation: putting on de hoodie and running away from a NW look too much like tief.
but what a culture in america. is evident de yute and de smallie eh even tink about calling 911 or police. daiz a measure of generations of mistrust. dey were taught: doh call no one. and DAT is what make a ready-made victim.
You have to be de runaway leader in two award-winning categories... Dunce, and Tun Tun of de Year.
dt, seem like yuh still have on your i-see-racism glasses. ah not on that. ah talking about handling day to day everyday situations. dealing with people whether is road rage, bad drive, security guard in de mall, border agents, po po, jehovah's witness, some shouty oman in a bar, etc.. ah saying handling dese kinds of situations is part of basic social skills a person must have in dis society.
tell me something - when you see a police on de corner, you does pull up your hoodie and run the other way? yuh acting like dat behaviour is excuseable? boy, common sense really eh dat common.
Clearly you missed the part where Zimmerman was not a policeman... it coulda be a facking pedophile with a thing for 17-year old black boys. Trayvon was a kid and he thought like a kid... "strange man following me, I need to ride de fack outta Dodge".
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I guarantee you the Justice Department will prosecute him, even if the State opts not to.
Called it... Justice Department to open Inquiry into shooting. (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/03/19/us/19reuters-usa-florida-shooting.html?hp)
...and now the State Attorney's office for Brevard and Seminole Counties will empanel a Grand Jury (http://Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager
By LIZETTE ALVAREZ
MIAMI — A grand jury will hear evidence next month in the fatal shooting of an unarmed black Florida teenager by a neighborhood watch volunteer, the state attorney’s office for Brevard and Seminole Counties announced on Tuesday.
The shooting last month of the teenager, Trayvon Martin, which has set off a national outcry, is also being investigated by the Justice Department.
On Tuesday, the state attorney for Brevard and Seminole, Norman R. Wolfinger, released a statement saying that a Seminole grand jury would examine the episode beginning on April 10. He asked for the public’s patience while law enforcement officials continue to investigate.
“I share in the desire of the family and the community to accurately collect and evaluate all the facts surrounding the tragic death of Trayvon Martin,” Mr. Wolfinger’s statement said. “I respectfully request that the public remain patient as this process continues forward.”
Trayvon, 17, was shot as he was walking to the home of his father’s girlfriend from a convenience store in Sanford, just north of Orlando, on Feb. 26. George Zimmerman, 28, the neighborhood watch volunteer who killed Trayvon, has told the police that he shot the teenager in self-defense.
On Monday night, the Justice Department said its Civil Rights Division, in conjunction with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, would investigate Trayvon’s death.
“The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation,” Xochitl Hinojosa, a Justice Department spokeswoman, said in a statement. “The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident.”
The Justice Department said it was also dispatching members of its Community Relations Service to Sanford to try to defuse tensions. And the Rev. Al Sharpton was scheduled to attend a town-hall-style meeting in Sanford on Tuesday evening.
The announcement of the grand jury inquiry and the federal investigation came after demonstrations outside the Seminole County courthouse by college students and a growing number of complaints that the Sanford Police Department had mishandled the case. By Tuesday morning, more than 500,000 people had signed an online petition seeking the prosecution of Mr. Zimmerman.
The shooting has also raised new questions about Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which was approved in 2005. The law does not require a person who is threatened to retreat in order to claim self-defense, and Mr. Zimmerman has claimed he fired his weapon while defending himself.
The episode occurred on a rainy February night as Mr. Zimmerman was patrolling his neighborhood in his sport utility vehicle. Several break-ins had been reported in the area in recent weeks, and Mr. Zimmerman was especially alert.
He spotted Trayvon wearing a sweatshirt, with the hood draped over his head. Mr. Zimmerman, who is Hispanic, trailed him a bit. Then he called 911, the first of seven calls from Mr. Zimmerman and panicked neighbors.
The police released the 911 recordings to reporters late last week after nearly three weeks of pressure from Trayvon’s parents and their supporters.
The 911 calls from the gated community in Sanford culminate with a faint voice in the distance crying and pleading for help. A gunshot is heard, and then silence. Mr. Zimmerman told the police that he had shot Trayvon in self-defense, after the two got into a fight and Mr. Zimmerman wound up on the ground.
“This guy looks like he’s up to no good or on drugs or something,” Mr. Zimmerman told a dispatcher in his initial call. “It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.” Mr. Zimmerman continued: “He’s here now just looking at all the houses. Now he’s just staring at me.” Then he added a second later: “He’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. Can you get an officer over here?”
Then he got out of the car with his licensed 9-millimeter pistol, and a worried dispatcher asked: “Are you following him? O.K., you don’t need to do that.”
At that point, Trayvon ran, and Mr. Zimmerman continued to follow. The dispatcher told him to wait for the police. A suggestion was made that Mr. Zimmerman and the police should meet by a mailbox. But then Mr. Zimmerman changed his mind. “Actually, could you have him call me and I’ll tell him where I’m at?” he said.
The next spate of calls came from anxious neighbors. A faint cry for help and terrified howls can be heard in the background. Neighbors said they had seen two men nearby in the dark. They reported hearing a gunshot.
“A guy yelled: ‘Help! Oh, my God,’ ” one man told the dispatcher. “There is two guys in the backyard with flashlights. There is a black guy down and it looks like he’s been shot and he’s dead.”
One caller said: “I think they’re yelling ‘Help!’ but I don’t know. Send someone quickly, please.”
It is not clear from the audio whether one or two shots were fired. And, with the voice muffled in the distance, it is difficult to know which of them is crying out for help.
The police told The Orlando Sentinel on Friday they believed that the voice crying for help was Mr. Zimmerman’s.
Sgt. Dave Morgenstern, a spokesman with the Sanford Police Department, said that Mr. Zimmerman was in contact with the police and was cooperating with the investigation. In a letter to The Sentinel, Mr. Zimmerman’s father said that his son had black relatives and friends and was not the aggressor in the case.
Mr. Zimmerman, who is studying criminal justice, was arrested once in 2005 on felony charges of battery on a police officer and resisting arrest with violence. Prosecutors chose not to pursue the case.
Trayvon had no criminal record. He was suspended from his Miami high school for 10 days in February, which is the reason he was visiting his father. The family said the suspension was not for violent or criminal behavior but for a violation of school policy.
Trayvon’s parents say they have no doubt that it is their son pleading for his life in the background of the audio. They say they can imagine Trayvon reacting with fright or concern upon seeing a burly stranger trailing him in his car, then getting out to follow him.
“I listened to the tapes and it just broke my heart again to hear him screaming out for help and pleading for his life, and he was still murdered,” said Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon’s mother. “There is no question in my mind that is his voice.”
Timothy Williams contributed reporting from New York.) to investigate the incident, a preliminary step to filing charges.
Yuhs ah idiot, and ah joker! yuh eh see is talk yuh looking for. sttuueeeppssss.
All dat name-calling aside... I was being very serious, both when I said it's evident you have serious issues with white people, and when I said you should consider therapy for all that latent hate riding yuh chest.
-
dt, seem like yuh still have on your i-see-racism glasses. ah not on that. ah talking about handling day to day everyday situations. dealing with people whether is road rage, bad drive, security guard in de mall, border agents, po po, jehovah's witness, some shouty oman in a bar, etc.. ah saying handling dese kinds of situations is part of basic social skills a person must have in dis society.
tell me something - when you see a police on de corner, you does pull up your hoodie and run the other way? yuh acting like dat behaviour is excuseable? boy, common sense really eh dat common.
Clearly you missed the part where Zimmerman was not a policeman... it coulda be a facking pedophile with a thing for 17-year old black boys. Trayvon was a kid and he thought like a kid... "strange man following me, I need to ride de fack outta Dodge".
sounds like yuh one of de sorfhead dat get tief by de outdated picture of martin dey carrying in de paper.
let's change de context to suit your narrow narrow narrow concept of de situation. say it is a neighbourhood watch on de corner shadowing you. you would pull up your hoodie and scurry away like a 4king manicou? be real. ah shocked to read allyuh taking up for living like a coward. is a 17-year old who 70 feet from he house in a gated community. what kind of society allyuh tink it is? like is joseph kony on de corner or what? allyuh arguing for arguing sake. that was a plain dumb move sad to say. martin too busy studying what de smallie on de phone tell him, he lost his bearings. and allyuh taking up for dis dumb move. steups.
-
I guarantee you the Justice Department will prosecute him, even if the State opts not to.
Called it... Justice Department to open Inquiry into shooting. (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/03/19/us/19reuters-usa-florida-shooting.html?hp)
...and now the State Attorney's office for Brevard and Seminole Counties will empanel a Grand Jury (http://Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager
By LIZETTE ALVAREZ
MIAMI — A grand jury will hear evidence next month in the fatal shooting of an unarmed black Florida teenager by a neighborhood watch volunteer, the state attorney’s office for Brevard and Seminole Counties announced on Tuesday.
The shooting last month of the teenager, Trayvon Martin, which has set off a national outcry, is also being investigated by the Justice Department.
On Tuesday, the state attorney for Brevard and Seminole, Norman R. Wolfinger, released a statement saying that a Seminole grand jury would examine the episode beginning on April 10. He asked for the public’s patience while law enforcement officials continue to investigate.
“I share in the desire of the family and the community to accurately collect and evaluate all the facts surrounding the tragic death of Trayvon Martin,” Mr. Wolfinger’s statement said. “I respectfully request that the public remain patient as this process continues forward.”
Trayvon, 17, was shot as he was walking to the home of his father’s girlfriend from a convenience store in Sanford, just north of Orlando, on Feb. 26. George Zimmerman, 28, the neighborhood watch volunteer who killed Trayvon, has told the police that he shot the teenager in self-defense.
On Monday night, the Justice Department said its Civil Rights Division, in conjunction with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, would investigate Trayvon’s death.
“The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation,” Xochitl Hinojosa, a Justice Department spokeswoman, said in a statement. “The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident.”
The Justice Department said it was also dispatching members of its Community Relations Service to Sanford to try to defuse tensions. And the Rev. Al Sharpton was scheduled to attend a town-hall-style meeting in Sanford on Tuesday evening.
The announcement of the grand jury inquiry and the federal investigation came after demonstrations outside the Seminole County courthouse by college students and a growing number of complaints that the Sanford Police Department had mishandled the case. By Tuesday morning, more than 500,000 people had signed an online petition seeking the prosecution of Mr. Zimmerman.
The shooting has also raised new questions about Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which was approved in 2005. The law does not require a person who is threatened to retreat in order to claim self-defense, and Mr. Zimmerman has claimed he fired his weapon while defending himself.
The episode occurred on a rainy February night as Mr. Zimmerman was patrolling his neighborhood in his sport utility vehicle. Several break-ins had been reported in the area in recent weeks, and Mr. Zimmerman was especially alert.
He spotted Trayvon wearing a sweatshirt, with the hood draped over his head. Mr. Zimmerman, who is Hispanic, trailed him a bit. Then he called 911, the first of seven calls from Mr. Zimmerman and panicked neighbors.
The police released the 911 recordings to reporters late last week after nearly three weeks of pressure from Trayvon’s parents and their supporters.
The 911 calls from the gated community in Sanford culminate with a faint voice in the distance crying and pleading for help. A gunshot is heard, and then silence. Mr. Zimmerman told the police that he had shot Trayvon in self-defense, after the two got into a fight and Mr. Zimmerman wound up on the ground.
“This guy looks like he’s up to no good or on drugs or something,” Mr. Zimmerman told a dispatcher in his initial call. “It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.” Mr. Zimmerman continued: “He’s here now just looking at all the houses. Now he’s just staring at me.” Then he added a second later: “He’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. Can you get an officer over here?”
Then he got out of the car with his licensed 9-millimeter pistol, and a worried dispatcher asked: “Are you following him? O.K., you don’t need to do that.”
At that point, Trayvon ran, and Mr. Zimmerman continued to follow. The dispatcher told him to wait for the police. A suggestion was made that Mr. Zimmerman and the police should meet by a mailbox. But then Mr. Zimmerman changed his mind. “Actually, could you have him call me and I’ll tell him where I’m at?” he said.
The next spate of calls came from anxious neighbors. A faint cry for help and terrified howls can be heard in the background. Neighbors said they had seen two men nearby in the dark. They reported hearing a gunshot.
“A guy yelled: ‘Help! Oh, my God,’ ” one man told the dispatcher. “There is two guys in the backyard with flashlights. There is a black guy down and it looks like he’s been shot and he’s dead.”
One caller said: “I think they’re yelling ‘Help!’ but I don’t know. Send someone quickly, please.”
It is not clear from the audio whether one or two shots were fired. And, with the voice muffled in the distance, it is difficult to know which of them is crying out for help.
The police told The Orlando Sentinel on Friday they believed that the voice crying for help was Mr. Zimmerman’s.
Sgt. Dave Morgenstern, a spokesman with the Sanford Police Department, said that Mr. Zimmerman was in contact with the police and was cooperating with the investigation. In a letter to The Sentinel, Mr. Zimmerman’s father said that his son had black relatives and friends and was not the aggressor in the case.
Mr. Zimmerman, who is studying criminal justice, was arrested once in 2005 on felony charges of battery on a police officer and resisting arrest with violence. Prosecutors chose not to pursue the case.
Trayvon had no criminal record. He was suspended from his Miami high school for 10 days in February, which is the reason he was visiting his father. The family said the suspension was not for violent or criminal behavior but for a violation of school policy.
Trayvon’s parents say they have no doubt that it is their son pleading for his life in the background of the audio. They say they can imagine Trayvon reacting with fright or concern upon seeing a burly stranger trailing him in his car, then getting out to follow him.
“I listened to the tapes and it just broke my heart again to hear him screaming out for help and pleading for his life, and he was still murdered,” said Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon’s mother. “There is no question in my mind that is his voice.”
Timothy Williams contributed reporting from New York.) to investigate the incident, a preliminary step to filing charges.
Yuhs ah idiot, and ah joker! yuh eh see is talk yuh looking for. sttuueeeppssss.
All dat name-calling aside... I was being very serious, both when I said it's evident you have serious issues with white people, and when I said you should consider therapy for all that latent hate riding yuh chest.
Speak fuh yuhself ediat! if anybody needs therapy on here it's you, bc you keep trolling the site wid yuh red pen looking fuh ppl tuh correct 24/7, like yuh was ah ole time colonial school principal in ah past life.
look man, geh ah fackin chance nah! stueps
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dt, seem like yuh still have on your i-see-racism glasses. ah not on that. ah talking about handling day to day everyday situations. dealing with people whether is road rage, bad drive, security guard in de mall, border agents, po po, jehovah's witness, some shouty oman in a bar, etc.. ah saying handling dese kinds of situations is part of basic social skills a person must have in dis society.
tell me something - when you see a police on de corner, you does pull up your hoodie and run the other way? yuh acting like dat behaviour is excuseable? boy, common sense really eh dat common.
Clearly you missed the part where Zimmerman was not a policeman... it coulda be a facking pedophile with a thing for 17-year old black boys. Trayvon was a kid and he thought like a kid... "strange man following me, I need to ride de fack outta Dodge".
sounds like yuh one of de sorfhead dat get tief by de outdated picture of martin dey carrying in de paper.
let's change de context to suit your narrow narrow narrow concept of de situation. say it is a neighbourhood watch on de corner shadowing you. you would pull up your hoodie and scurry away like a 4king manicou? be real. ah shocked to read allyuh taking up for living like a coward. is a 17-year old who 70 feet from he house in a gated community. what kind of society allyuh tink it is? like is joseph kony on de corner or what? allyuh arguing for arguing sake. that was a plain dumb move sad to say. martin too busy studying what de smallie on de phone tell him, he lost his bearings. and allyuh taking up for dis dumb move. steups.
Let's say it was a 17 year old girl he had follow and raped, would we have blamed the girl for what she was wearing or she shoulda not even go outside without she husband.
-
I guarantee you the Justice Department will prosecute him, even if the State opts not to.
Called it... Justice Department to open Inquiry into shooting. (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/03/19/us/19reuters-usa-florida-shooting.html?hp)
...and now the State Attorney's office for Brevard and Seminole Counties will empanel a Grand Jury (http://Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager
By LIZETTE ALVAREZ
MIAMI — A grand jury will hear evidence next month in the fatal shooting of an unarmed black Florida teenager by a neighborhood watch volunteer, the state attorney’s office for Brevard and Seminole Counties announced on Tuesday.
The shooting last month of the teenager, Trayvon Martin, which has set off a national outcry, is also being investigated by the Justice Department.
On Tuesday, the state attorney for Brevard and Seminole, Norman R. Wolfinger, released a statement saying that a Seminole grand jury would examine the episode beginning on April 10. He asked for the public’s patience while law enforcement officials continue to investigate.
“I share in the desire of the family and the community to accurately collect and evaluate all the facts surrounding the tragic death of Trayvon Martin,” Mr. Wolfinger’s statement said. “I respectfully request that the public remain patient as this process continues forward.”
Trayvon, 17, was shot as he was walking to the home of his father’s girlfriend from a convenience store in Sanford, just north of Orlando, on Feb. 26. George Zimmerman, 28, the neighborhood watch volunteer who killed Trayvon, has told the police that he shot the teenager in self-defense.
On Monday night, the Justice Department said its Civil Rights Division, in conjunction with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, would investigate Trayvon’s death.
“The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation,” Xochitl Hinojosa, a Justice Department spokeswoman, said in a statement. “The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident.”
The Justice Department said it was also dispatching members of its Community Relations Service to Sanford to try to defuse tensions. And the Rev. Al Sharpton was scheduled to attend a town-hall-style meeting in Sanford on Tuesday evening.
The announcement of the grand jury inquiry and the federal investigation came after demonstrations outside the Seminole County courthouse by college students and a growing number of complaints that the Sanford Police Department had mishandled the case. By Tuesday morning, more than 500,000 people had signed an online petition seeking the prosecution of Mr. Zimmerman.
The shooting has also raised new questions about Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which was approved in 2005. The law does not require a person who is threatened to retreat in order to claim self-defense, and Mr. Zimmerman has claimed he fired his weapon while defending himself.
The episode occurred on a rainy February night as Mr. Zimmerman was patrolling his neighborhood in his sport utility vehicle. Several break-ins had been reported in the area in recent weeks, and Mr. Zimmerman was especially alert.
He spotted Trayvon wearing a sweatshirt, with the hood draped over his head. Mr. Zimmerman, who is Hispanic, trailed him a bit. Then he called 911, the first of seven calls from Mr. Zimmerman and panicked neighbors.
The police released the 911 recordings to reporters late last week after nearly three weeks of pressure from Trayvon’s parents and their supporters.
The 911 calls from the gated community in Sanford culminate with a faint voice in the distance crying and pleading for help. A gunshot is heard, and then silence. Mr. Zimmerman told the police that he had shot Trayvon in self-defense, after the two got into a fight and Mr. Zimmerman wound up on the ground.
“This guy looks like he’s up to no good or on drugs or something,” Mr. Zimmerman told a dispatcher in his initial call. “It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.” Mr. Zimmerman continued: “He’s here now just looking at all the houses. Now he’s just staring at me.” Then he added a second later: “He’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. Can you get an officer over here?”
Then he got out of the car with his licensed 9-millimeter pistol, and a worried dispatcher asked: “Are you following him? O.K., you don’t need to do that.”
At that point, Trayvon ran, and Mr. Zimmerman continued to follow. The dispatcher told him to wait for the police. A suggestion was made that Mr. Zimmerman and the police should meet by a mailbox. But then Mr. Zimmerman changed his mind. “Actually, could you have him call me and I’ll tell him where I’m at?” he said.
The next spate of calls came from anxious neighbors. A faint cry for help and terrified howls can be heard in the background. Neighbors said they had seen two men nearby in the dark. They reported hearing a gunshot.
“A guy yelled: ‘Help! Oh, my God,’ ” one man told the dispatcher. “There is two guys in the backyard with flashlights. There is a black guy down and it looks like he’s been shot and he’s dead.”
One caller said: “I think they’re yelling ‘Help!’ but I don’t know. Send someone quickly, please.”
It is not clear from the audio whether one or two shots were fired. And, with the voice muffled in the distance, it is difficult to know which of them is crying out for help.
The police told The Orlando Sentinel on Friday they believed that the voice crying for help was Mr. Zimmerman’s.
Sgt. Dave Morgenstern, a spokesman with the Sanford Police Department, said that Mr. Zimmerman was in contact with the police and was cooperating with the investigation. In a letter to The Sentinel, Mr. Zimmerman’s father said that his son had black relatives and friends and was not the aggressor in the case.
Mr. Zimmerman, who is studying criminal justice, was arrested once in 2005 on felony charges of battery on a police officer and resisting arrest with violence. Prosecutors chose not to pursue the case.
Trayvon had no criminal record. He was suspended from his Miami high school for 10 days in February, which is the reason he was visiting his father. The family said the suspension was not for violent or criminal behavior but for a violation of school policy.
Trayvon’s parents say they have no doubt that it is their son pleading for his life in the background of the audio. They say they can imagine Trayvon reacting with fright or concern upon seeing a burly stranger trailing him in his car, then getting out to follow him.
“I listened to the tapes and it just broke my heart again to hear him screaming out for help and pleading for his life, and he was still murdered,” said Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon’s mother. “There is no question in my mind that is his voice.”
Timothy Williams contributed reporting from New York.) to investigate the incident, a preliminary step to filing charges.
Yuhs ah idiot, and ah joker! yuh eh see is talk yuh looking for. sttuueeeppssss.
All dat name-calling aside... I was being very serious, both when I said it's evident you have serious issues with white people, and when I said you should consider therapy for all that latent hate riding yuh chest.
And why shouldn't i ! they've been robing and raping the planet for centuries, stole my ancestors from their home land tuh make them work fuh free, rob me of my name my language and culture, and then want tuh portray me as the villain, and when i express my displeasure they try tuh make me look like i too angry.
and say it for what it is, i have a problem with the white power structure, not civilians, but ah guess your head is way way way up your own arse and too mesmerized and drunkend with the smell of your own sh!t to see the difference.
PS: if it have any blackman ouit there in the diaspora who is ah product of slavery, and believe that slavery had no lasting effect on their lives even to this day, let them think again!
-
I guarantee you the Justice Department will prosecute him, even if the State opts not to.
Called it... Justice Department to open Inquiry into shooting. (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/03/19/us/19reuters-usa-florida-shooting.html?hp)
...and now the State Attorney's office for Brevard and Seminole Counties will empanel a Grand Jury (http://Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager
By LIZETTE ALVAREZ
MIAMI — A grand jury will hear evidence next month in the fatal shooting of an unarmed black Florida teenager by a neighborhood watch volunteer, the state attorney’s office for Brevard and Seminole Counties announced on Tuesday.
The shooting last month of the teenager, Trayvon Martin, which has set off a national outcry, is also being investigated by the Justice Department.
On Tuesday, the state attorney for Brevard and Seminole, Norman R. Wolfinger, released a statement saying that a Seminole grand jury would examine the episode beginning on April 10. He asked for the public’s patience while law enforcement officials continue to investigate.
“I share in the desire of the family and the community to accurately collect and evaluate all the facts surrounding the tragic death of Trayvon Martin,” Mr. Wolfinger’s statement said. “I respectfully request that the public remain patient as this process continues forward.”
Trayvon, 17, was shot as he was walking to the home of his father’s girlfriend from a convenience store in Sanford, just north of Orlando, on Feb. 26. George Zimmerman, 28, the neighborhood watch volunteer who killed Trayvon, has told the police that he shot the teenager in self-defense.
On Monday night, the Justice Department said its Civil Rights Division, in conjunction with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, would investigate Trayvon’s death.
“The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation,” Xochitl Hinojosa, a Justice Department spokeswoman, said in a statement. “The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident.”
The Justice Department said it was also dispatching members of its Community Relations Service to Sanford to try to defuse tensions. And the Rev. Al Sharpton was scheduled to attend a town-hall-style meeting in Sanford on Tuesday evening.
The announcement of the grand jury inquiry and the federal investigation came after demonstrations outside the Seminole County courthouse by college students and a growing number of complaints that the Sanford Police Department had mishandled the case. By Tuesday morning, more than 500,000 people had signed an online petition seeking the prosecution of Mr. Zimmerman.
The shooting has also raised new questions about Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which was approved in 2005. The law does not require a person who is threatened to retreat in order to claim self-defense, and Mr. Zimmerman has claimed he fired his weapon while defending himself.
The episode occurred on a rainy February night as Mr. Zimmerman was patrolling his neighborhood in his sport utility vehicle. Several break-ins had been reported in the area in recent weeks, and Mr. Zimmerman was especially alert.
He spotted Trayvon wearing a sweatshirt, with the hood draped over his head. Mr. Zimmerman, who is Hispanic, trailed him a bit. Then he called 911, the first of seven calls from Mr. Zimmerman and panicked neighbors.
The police released the 911 recordings to reporters late last week after nearly three weeks of pressure from Trayvon’s parents and their supporters.
The 911 calls from the gated community in Sanford culminate with a faint voice in the distance crying and pleading for help. A gunshot is heard, and then silence. Mr. Zimmerman told the police that he had shot Trayvon in self-defense, after the two got into a fight and Mr. Zimmerman wound up on the ground.
“This guy looks like he’s up to no good or on drugs or something,” Mr. Zimmerman told a dispatcher in his initial call. “It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.” Mr. Zimmerman continued: “He’s here now just looking at all the houses. Now he’s just staring at me.” Then he added a second later: “He’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. Can you get an officer over here?”
Then he got out of the car with his licensed 9-millimeter pistol, and a worried dispatcher asked: “Are you following him? O.K., you don’t need to do that.”
At that point, Trayvon ran, and Mr. Zimmerman continued to follow. The dispatcher told him to wait for the police. A suggestion was made that Mr. Zimmerman and the police should meet by a mailbox. But then Mr. Zimmerman changed his mind. “Actually, could you have him call me and I’ll tell him where I’m at?” he said.
The next spate of calls came from anxious neighbors. A faint cry for help and terrified howls can be heard in the background. Neighbors said they had seen two men nearby in the dark. They reported hearing a gunshot.
“A guy yelled: ‘Help! Oh, my God,’ ” one man told the dispatcher. “There is two guys in the backyard with flashlights. There is a black guy down and it looks like he’s been shot and he’s dead.”
One caller said: “I think they’re yelling ‘Help!’ but I don’t know. Send someone quickly, please.”
It is not clear from the audio whether one or two shots were fired. And, with the voice muffled in the distance, it is difficult to know which of them is crying out for help.
The police told The Orlando Sentinel on Friday they believed that the voice crying for help was Mr. Zimmerman’s.
Sgt. Dave Morgenstern, a spokesman with the Sanford Police Department, said that Mr. Zimmerman was in contact with the police and was cooperating with the investigation. In a letter to The Sentinel, Mr. Zimmerman’s father said that his son had black relatives and friends and was not the aggressor in the case.
Mr. Zimmerman, who is studying criminal justice, was arrested once in 2005 on felony charges of battery on a police officer and resisting arrest with violence. Prosecutors chose not to pursue the case.
Trayvon had no criminal record. He was suspended from his Miami high school for 10 days in February, which is the reason he was visiting his father. The family said the suspension was not for violent or criminal behavior but for a violation of school policy.
Trayvon’s parents say they have no doubt that it is their son pleading for his life in the background of the audio. They say they can imagine Trayvon reacting with fright or concern upon seeing a burly stranger trailing him in his car, then getting out to follow him.
“I listened to the tapes and it just broke my heart again to hear him screaming out for help and pleading for his life, and he was still murdered,” said Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon’s mother. “There is no question in my mind that is his voice.”
Timothy Williams contributed reporting from New York.) to investigate the incident, a preliminary step to filing charges.
Yuhs ah idiot, and ah joker! yuh eh see is talk yuh looking for. sttuueeeppssss.
All dat name-calling aside... I was being very serious, both when I said it's evident you have serious issues with white people, and when I said you should consider therapy for all that latent hate riding yuh chest.
And why shouldn't i ! they've been robing and raping the planet for centuries, stole my ancestors from their home land tuh make them work fuh free, rob me of my name my language and culture, and then want tuh portray me as the villain, and when i express my displeasure they try tuh make me look like i too angry.
and say it for what it is, i have a problem with the white power structure, not civilians, but ah guess your head is way way way up your own arse and too mesmerized and drunkend with the smell of your own sh!t to see the difference.
PS: if it have any blackman ouit there in the diaspora who is ah product of slavery, and believe that slavery had no lasting effect on their lives even to this day, let them think again!
JC, I have been reading your posts and trying to figure out why you resent white people so much. This explains it well. No argument with respect to the past other than to add that the white people (what ever constitutes white people that is) don't have a monopoly on racial and non-racial subjugation. All races at some point in history can be accused of what you accuse the white person of.
But you paint every white person with the same brush not withstanding your attempt to differentiate between the individual and the power struture.
Here is a well know cliche: You have been dealt a s h i t t y hand. But is how you play the game that counts. Stop complaining and do something constructive about it. Believe it or not, you have that opportunity in the USA, less so in Africa I would argue.
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sounds like yuh one of de sorfhead dat get tief by de outdated picture of martin dey carrying in de paper.
let's change de context to suit your narrow narrow narrow concept of de situation. say it is a neighbourhood watch on de corner shadowing you. you would pull up your hoodie and scurry away like a 4king manicou? be real. ah shocked to read allyuh taking up for living like a coward. is a 17-year old who 70 feet from he house in a gated community. what kind of society allyuh tink it is? like is joseph kony on de corner or what? allyuh arguing for arguing sake. that was a plain dumb move sad to say. martin too busy studying what de smallie on de phone tell him, he lost his bearings. and allyuh taking up for dis dumb move. steups.
My head might be sorf, but it eh empty. Try yuh best and keep de riddim.
Martin clearly didn't just up and scurry away... Zimmerman in the 911 call say "he looking at mih... now he coming towards mih". De "smallie" on de phone say "he asked him 'Why are you following me?' " So, Trayvon made an attempt to address the situation. Zimmerman then got out of his truck with a loaded 9 millimeter. Don't know whether it was in his hand or concealed under his clothing, but it was on his person. Taking the situation in light of the totality of the circumstances... dark, rainy... black male.... strong bet that Zimmerman had the gun in his hand or otherwise visible when he got out the truck.
Trayvon then took off... as any reasonable person would do. Only a total cunnyhole like you would criticize him with the benefit of hindsight, from the safe happy confines of your seat behind your computer, would second-guess this child for not being scared at being followed by a stranger, who then confronts him with a gun. This isn't my "narrow, narrow concept of the situation"... one of us lives this reality on a daily professional basis... the other one talking out his ass from some place on the internet in Canada.
What you also fail to acknowledge is that under the very law the Sanford police are using to shield Zimmerman, Trayvon also had a right to stand his ground, which he attempted to do until a gun was produced. He was legally in a place he was supposed to be when confronted by an uninvited threat. Fearing death or great bodily harm he sought to avoid the situation by running away. He was then pursued and gunned down by an attacker who now somewhat paradoxically claims self-defense. The police department has determined that he was acting in sel-defense on the basis of his word alone. That is not the purview of some redneck, one traffic light Mayberry police department, it's up to a court, or in the least a prosecutor's office to make that determination. There is clearly much that is amiss about this case that many around the world have recognized, the illogical arguments are plain to see... so please, spare us the vacuous f**kery yuh offering here, when we ready fuh bullshit we'll send you a PM.
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And why shouldn't i ! they've been robing and raping the planet for centuries, stole my ancestors from their home land tuh make them work fuh free, rob me of my name my language and culture, and then want tuh portray me as the villain, and when i express my displeasure they try tuh make me look like i too angry.
and say it for what it is, i have a problem with the white power structure, not civilians, but ah guess your head is way way way up your own arse and too mesmerized and drunkend with the smell of your own sh!t to see the difference.
PS: if it have any blackman ouit there in the diaspora who is ah product of slavery, and believe that slavery had no lasting effect on their lives even to this day, let them think again!
Dred you yuhself saying it right here... you have a problem with white people, as is your right, I can't tell you what to do. I never questioned why you did, nor did I question your right TO or NOT to have a problem with white people. I made a simple observation that you, after much opprobrium, agreed with. So I really doh understand all the hostility.
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I guarantee you the Justice Department will prosecute him, even if the State opts not to.
Called it... Justice Department to open Inquiry into shooting. (http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/03/19/us/19reuters-usa-florida-shooting.html?hp)
...and now the State Attorney's office for Brevard and Seminole Counties will empanel a Grand Jury (http://Grand Jury in Florida Will Examine Death of Teenager
By LIZETTE ALVAREZ
MIAMI — A grand jury will hear evidence next month in the fatal shooting of an unarmed black Florida teenager by a neighborhood watch volunteer, the state attorney’s office for Brevard and Seminole Counties announced on Tuesday.
The shooting last month of the teenager, Trayvon Martin, which has set off a national outcry, is also being investigated by the Justice Department.
On Tuesday, the state attorney for Brevard and Seminole, Norman R. Wolfinger, released a statement saying that a Seminole grand jury would examine the episode beginning on April 10. He asked for the public’s patience while law enforcement officials continue to investigate.
“I share in the desire of the family and the community to accurately collect and evaluate all the facts surrounding the tragic death of Trayvon Martin,” Mr. Wolfinger’s statement said. “I respectfully request that the public remain patient as this process continues forward.”
Trayvon, 17, was shot as he was walking to the home of his father’s girlfriend from a convenience store in Sanford, just north of Orlando, on Feb. 26. George Zimmerman, 28, the neighborhood watch volunteer who killed Trayvon, has told the police that he shot the teenager in self-defense.
On Monday night, the Justice Department said its Civil Rights Division, in conjunction with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, would investigate Trayvon’s death.
“The department will conduct a thorough and independent review of all of the evidence and take appropriate action at the conclusion of the investigation,” Xochitl Hinojosa, a Justice Department spokeswoman, said in a statement. “The department also is providing assistance to and cooperating with the state officials in their investigation into the incident.”
The Justice Department said it was also dispatching members of its Community Relations Service to Sanford to try to defuse tensions. And the Rev. Al Sharpton was scheduled to attend a town-hall-style meeting in Sanford on Tuesday evening.
The announcement of the grand jury inquiry and the federal investigation came after demonstrations outside the Seminole County courthouse by college students and a growing number of complaints that the Sanford Police Department had mishandled the case. By Tuesday morning, more than 500,000 people had signed an online petition seeking the prosecution of Mr. Zimmerman.
The shooting has also raised new questions about Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law, which was approved in 2005. The law does not require a person who is threatened to retreat in order to claim self-defense, and Mr. Zimmerman has claimed he fired his weapon while defending himself.
The episode occurred on a rainy February night as Mr. Zimmerman was patrolling his neighborhood in his sport utility vehicle. Several break-ins had been reported in the area in recent weeks, and Mr. Zimmerman was especially alert.
He spotted Trayvon wearing a sweatshirt, with the hood draped over his head. Mr. Zimmerman, who is Hispanic, trailed him a bit. Then he called 911, the first of seven calls from Mr. Zimmerman and panicked neighbors.
The police released the 911 recordings to reporters late last week after nearly three weeks of pressure from Trayvon’s parents and their supporters.
The 911 calls from the gated community in Sanford culminate with a faint voice in the distance crying and pleading for help. A gunshot is heard, and then silence. Mr. Zimmerman told the police that he had shot Trayvon in self-defense, after the two got into a fight and Mr. Zimmerman wound up on the ground.
“This guy looks like he’s up to no good or on drugs or something,” Mr. Zimmerman told a dispatcher in his initial call. “It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.” Mr. Zimmerman continued: “He’s here now just looking at all the houses. Now he’s just staring at me.” Then he added a second later: “He’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. Can you get an officer over here?”
Then he got out of the car with his licensed 9-millimeter pistol, and a worried dispatcher asked: “Are you following him? O.K., you don’t need to do that.”
At that point, Trayvon ran, and Mr. Zimmerman continued to follow. The dispatcher told him to wait for the police. A suggestion was made that Mr. Zimmerman and the police should meet by a mailbox. But then Mr. Zimmerman changed his mind. “Actually, could you have him call me and I’ll tell him where I’m at?” he said.
The next spate of calls came from anxious neighbors. A faint cry for help and terrified howls can be heard in the background. Neighbors said they had seen two men nearby in the dark. They reported hearing a gunshot.
“A guy yelled: ‘Help! Oh, my God,’ ” one man told the dispatcher. “There is two guys in the backyard with flashlights. There is a black guy down and it looks like he’s been shot and he’s dead.”
One caller said: “I think they’re yelling ‘Help!’ but I don’t know. Send someone quickly, please.”
It is not clear from the audio whether one or two shots were fired. And, with the voice muffled in the distance, it is difficult to know which of them is crying out for help.
The police told The Orlando Sentinel on Friday they believed that the voice crying for help was Mr. Zimmerman’s.
Sgt. Dave Morgenstern, a spokesman with the Sanford Police Department, said that Mr. Zimmerman was in contact with the police and was cooperating with the investigation. In a letter to The Sentinel, Mr. Zimmerman’s father said that his son had black relatives and friends and was not the aggressor in the case.
Mr. Zimmerman, who is studying criminal justice, was arrested once in 2005 on felony charges of battery on a police officer and resisting arrest with violence. Prosecutors chose not to pursue the case.
Trayvon had no criminal record. He was suspended from his Miami high school for 10 days in February, which is the reason he was visiting his father. The family said the suspension was not for violent or criminal behavior but for a violation of school policy.
Trayvon’s parents say they have no doubt that it is their son pleading for his life in the background of the audio. They say they can imagine Trayvon reacting with fright or concern upon seeing a burly stranger trailing him in his car, then getting out to follow him.
“I listened to the tapes and it just broke my heart again to hear him screaming out for help and pleading for his life, and he was still murdered,” said Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon’s mother. “There is no question in my mind that is his voice.”
Timothy Williams contributed reporting from New York.) to investigate the incident, a preliminary step to filing charges.
Yuhs ah idiot, and ah joker! yuh eh see is talk yuh looking for. sttuueeeppssss.
All dat name-calling aside... I was being very serious, both when I said it's evident you have serious issues with white people, and when I said you should consider therapy for all that latent hate riding yuh chest.
And why shouldn't i ! they've been robing and raping the planet for centuries, stole my ancestors from their home land tuh make them work fuh free, rob me of my name my language and culture, and then want tuh portray me as the villain, and when i express my displeasure they try tuh make me look like i too angry.
and say it for what it is, i have a problem with the white power structure, not civilians, but ah guess your head is way way way up your own arse and too mesmerized and drunkend with the smell of your own sh!t to see the difference.
PS: if it have any blackman ouit there in the diaspora who is ah product of slavery, and believe that slavery had no lasting effect on their lives even to this day, let them think again!
JC, I have been reading your posts and trying to figure out why you resent white people so much. This explains it well. No argument with respect to the past other than to add that the white people (what ever constitutes white people that is) don't have a monopoly on racial and non-racial subjugation. All races at some point in history can be accused of what you accuse the white person of.
But you paint every white person with the same brush not withstanding your attempt to differentiate between the individual and the power struture.
Here is a well know cliche: You have been dealt a s h i t t y hand. But is how you play the game that counts. Stop complaining and do something constructive about it. Believe it or not, you have that opportunity in the USA, less so in Africa I would argue.
Wham breds, yuh eye buss or what??!! you eh see i went through the trouble to type and make my position clear, that i have no problem with civilians but the "white power " structure?? or yuh seeing what yuh want tuh see!
and what does being dealt ah shitty hand have tuh do with anything?? what i look like, ah fackin baby? i don't want no god damn sympathy, i want equal rights and justice for all!
one thing i hate doing is talking about social issues especially regarding black ppl with trinis, it always destined to end up in misunderstanding. bc they're so programmed by the colonial masters, and scared to offend others, that even when the truth is spoken they tend to shy away from the meat of the matter in order to compensate feelings!
i know there was a reason why i stayed away from trinbagoians all these yrs here in foreign and never even thought of moving back there, it's bc you ppl have no fackin struggle @ all in yuhs whatsoever.
why do i even waste my time to dialogue with a ppl, who don't even understand the word struggle?
i also keep forgetting that most of yuhs don't even consider your selves to be black even though most of tuh have ah whole heap of black blood in yuhs, and the ones that do, eh have enough conviction to defend against their own oppression, and when someone have enough balls and conviction to, they are branded as racist!
i gone, to much misunderstanding around here.
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that is real sad. this yute had the wrong reaction to the situation: putting on de hoodie and running away from a NW look too much like tief.
but what a culture in america. is evident de yute and de smallie eh even tink about calling 911 or police. daiz a measure of generations of mistrust. dey were taught: doh call no one. and DAT is what make a ready-made victim.
You for real?? You MUST just be trying to cause trouble because yuh cyar be serious. If you are then you are an idiot and I am going to now be just like you and wish that your child is walking on the side of the road one day minding their own business, and some clown "mistakes" him/her for something they aren't and confronts them and shoots them dead. Let me see how much you will feel like your child "had the wrong reaction", no matter how your child reacted.
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dt, seem like yuh still have on your i-see-racism glasses. ah not on that. ah talking about handling day to day everyday situations. dealing with people whether is road rage, bad drive, security guard in de mall, border agents, po po, jehovah's witness, some shouty oman in a bar, etc.. ah saying handling dese kinds of situations is part of basic social skills a person must have in dis society.
tell me something - when you see a police on de corner, you does pull up your hoodie and run the other way? yuh acting like dat behaviour is excuseable? boy, common sense really eh dat common.
Clearly you missed the part where Zimmerman was not a policeman... it coulda be a facking pedophile with a thing for 17-year old black boys. Trayvon was a kid and he thought like a kid... "strange man following me, I need to ride de fack outta Dodge".
sounds like yuh one of de sorfhead dat get tief by de outdated picture of martin dey carrying in de paper.
let's change de context to suit your narrow narrow narrow concept of de situation. say it is a neighbourhood watch on de corner shadowing you. you would pull up your hoodie and scurry away like a 4king manicou? be real. ah shocked to read allyuh taking up for living like a coward. is a 17-year old who 70 feet from he house in a gated community. what kind of society allyuh tink it is? like is joseph kony on de corner or what? allyuh arguing for arguing sake. that was a plain dumb move sad to say. martin too busy studying what de smallie on de phone tell him, he lost his bearings. and allyuh taking up for dis dumb move. steups.
OK..I nearly get ketch...I see now you on kicks. You hadda be. Except that someone's child died...... appalling poor taste
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so please, spare us the vacuous f**kery yuh offering here, when we ready fuh bullshit we'll send you a PM.
DITTO!
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i gone, to much misunderstanding around here.
JC, let me quote you from Jumbie's thread about his children encountering racism. Maybe this is why I misunderstand you. You say you have no problems with civilians yet you cast aspersions on virtually every white person ...
i know nuff ppl love to ignore this, but it's the truth, as harsh as it may be.
white folks (for the most part) don't have any problem in demonizing and teaching their kids falsehood about other races, especially black, so why should we be apprehensive about teaching our kids of the true nature of white folks. once yuh kids know that this is an uncivilized culture, then they would have less of a problem dealing with manifestations of such kind, wisdom and knowledge is the best tools you could give your children in combating bigotry, once they understand it, then they could navigate around any racist encounter with relative ease.
ah mean .."The true nature of white people..."?
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that is real sad. this yute had the wrong reaction to the situation: putting on de hoodie and running away from a NW look too much like tief.
but what a culture in america. is evident de yute and de smallie eh even tink about calling 911 or police. daiz a measure of generations of mistrust. dey were taught: doh call no one. and DAT is what make a ready-made victim.
You for real?? You MUST just be trying to cause trouble because yuh cyar be serious. If you are then you are an idiot and I am going to now be just like you and wish that your child is walking on the side of the road one day minding their own business, and some clown "mistakes" him/her for something they aren't and confronts them and shoots them dead. Let me see how much you will feel like your child "had the wrong reaction", no matter how your child reacted.
now dat yuh finish with de usual reciprocities, address de point. pulling up your hoodie and running like a tief was de wrong move in dis situation.
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that is real sad. this yute had the wrong reaction to the situation: putting on de hoodie and running away from a NW look too much like tief.
but what a culture in america. is evident de yute and de smallie eh even tink about calling 911 or police. daiz a measure of generations of mistrust. dey were taught: doh call no one. and DAT is what make a ready-made victim.
You for real?? You MUST just be trying to cause trouble because yuh cyar be serious. If you are then you are an idiot and I am going to now be just like you and wish that your child is walking on the side of the road one day minding their own business, and some clown "mistakes" him/her for something they aren't and confronts them and shoots them dead. Let me see how much you will feel like your child "had the wrong reaction", no matter how your child reacted.
now dat yuh finish with de usual reciprocities, address de point. pulling up your hoodie and running like a tief was de wrong move in dis situation.
Daiz true, de kid should know better than to run from an adult with ah gun pointed at him.
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sounds like yuh one of de sorfhead dat get tief by de outdated picture of martin dey carrying in de paper.
let's change de context to suit your narrow narrow narrow concept of de situation. say it is a neighbourhood watch on de corner shadowing you. you would pull up your hoodie and scurry away like a 4king manicou? be real. ah shocked to read allyuh taking up for living like a coward. is a 17-year old who 70 feet from he house in a gated community. what kind of society allyuh tink it is? like is joseph kony on de corner or what? allyuh arguing for arguing sake. that was a plain dumb move sad to say. martin too busy studying what de smallie on de phone tell him, he lost his bearings. and allyuh taking up for dis dumb move. steups.
My head might be sorf, but it eh empty. Try yuh best and keep de riddim.
Martin clearly didn't just up and scurry away... Zimmerman in the 911 call say "he looking at mih... now he coming towards mih". De "smallie" on de phone say "he asked him 'Why are you following me?' " So, Trayvon made an attempt to address the situation. Zimmerman then got out of his truck with a loaded 9 millimeter. Don't know whether it was in his hand or concealed under his clothing, but it was on his person. Taking the situation in light of the totality of the circumstances... dark, rainy... black male.... strong bet that Zimmerman had the gun in his hand or otherwise visible when he got out the truck.
Trayvon then took off... as any reasonable person would do. Only a total cunnyhole like you would criticize him with the benefit of hindsight, from the safe happy confines of your seat behind your computer, would second-guess this child for not being scared at being followed by a stranger, who then confronts him with a gun. This isn't my "narrow, narrow concept of the situation"... one of us lives this reality on a daily professional basis... the other one talking out his ass from some place on the internet in Canada.
reread the transcript and you will see your comments above are actually the reverse of what happened. martin ran first then got cornered by zimmerman who had cutback. only then, after casting suspicion in the mind of any reasonable person, did martin try to talk.
check the order of events in the first line of the article:
In the final moments of his life, Trayvon Martin was being hounded by a strange man on a cellphone who ran after him, cornered him and confronted him, according to the teenage girl whose call logs show she was on the phone with the 17-year-old boy in the moments before neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman shot him dead.
so (1) ran after him - because martin was running away
(2) cornered him
(3) confronted him
"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run."
Eventually he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.
"Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell.
so your claim that "Martin clearly didn't just up and scurry away" is factually incorrect. he did just up and scurry away. thing is that zimmerman actually cornered him afterwards.
also reread my posts in this thread. i've commented on this already. you obviously missed the points. i won't waste more of my time explaining it to you.
What you also fail to acknowledge is that under the very law the Sanford police are using to shield Zimmerman, Trayvon also had a right to stand his ground, which he attempted to do until a gun was produced. He was legally in a place he was supposed to be when confronted by an uninvited threat. Fearing death or great bodily harm he sought to avoid the situation by running away. He was then pursued and gunned down by an attacker who now somewhat paradoxically claims self-defense. The police department has determined that he was acting in sel-defense on the basis of his word alone. That is not the purview of some redneck, one traffic light Mayberry police department, it's up to a court, or in the least a prosecutor's office to make that determination. There is clearly much that is amiss about this case that many around the world have recognized, the illogical arguments are plain to see... so please, spare us the vacuous f**kery yuh offering here, when we ready fuh bullshit we'll send you a PM.
de internet lawyer strikes again. this has nothing to do with any comments i made. you and yur classmates go have yur mock trial on this while your betters handle the real cases. doh hurt up you sorf head on this more than you have time for.
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dt, seem like yuh still have on your i-see-racism glasses. ah not on that. ah talking about handling day to day everyday situations. dealing with people whether is road rage, bad drive, security guard in de mall, border agents, po po, jehovah's witness, some shouty oman in a bar, etc.. ah saying handling dese kinds of situations is part of basic social skills a person must have in dis society.
tell me something - when you see a police on de corner, you does pull up your hoodie and run the other way? yuh acting like dat behaviour is excuseable? boy, common sense really eh dat common.
Clearly you missed the part where Zimmerman was not a policeman... it coulda be a facking pedophile with a thing for 17-year old black boys. Trayvon was a kid and he thought like a kid... "strange man following me, I need to ride de fack outta Dodge".
sounds like yuh one of de sorfhead dat get tief by de outdated picture of martin dey carrying in de paper.
let's change de context to suit your narrow narrow narrow concept of de situation. say it is a neighbourhood watch on de corner shadowing you. you would pull up your hoodie and scurry away like a 4king manicou? be real. ah shocked to read allyuh taking up for living like a coward. is a 17-year old who 70 feet from he house in a gated community. what kind of society allyuh tink it is? like is joseph kony on de corner or what? allyuh arguing for arguing sake. that was a plain dumb move sad to say. martin too busy studying what de smallie on de phone tell him, he lost his bearings. and allyuh taking up for dis dumb move. steups.
Let's say it was a 17 year old girl he had follow and raped, would we have blamed the girl for what she was wearing or she shoulda not even go outside without she husband.
is all 17 year old girls by you married with husband? elan, women different from men. at least women different from men by me. it sound like things very different by you.
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sounds like yuh one of de sorfhead dat get tief by de outdated picture of martin dey carrying in de paper.
let's change de context to suit your narrow narrow narrow concept of de situation. say it is a neighbourhood watch on de corner shadowing you. you would pull up your hoodie and scurry away like a 4king manicou? be real. ah shocked to read allyuh taking up for living like a coward. is a 17-year old who 70 feet from he house in a gated community. what kind of society allyuh tink it is? like is joseph kony on de corner or what? allyuh arguing for arguing sake. that was a plain dumb move sad to say. martin too busy studying what de smallie on de phone tell him, he lost his bearings. and allyuh taking up for dis dumb move. steups.
Ribbit yuh apportioning blame where there is no blame to be placed. Martin did nothing to instigate this situation. He also took actions to avoid confrontation.
Based on the 911 call of the aggressor, he was already pegged as a “tief”. Saying that he was at fault for “running like a tief” is like saying he was at fault for being black, wearing a hoodie, jeans and white sneakers because in Zimmerman’s estimation he was:
“up to no good”
“a f**king asshole”
Had “something wrong with him”
Now all this is from watching a fella walk down a street, no running, no confrontation.
You can’t listen to that tape, hear the facts and suggest that the youth was in any way at fault. Making such a suggestion would fall in line with the idea that Zimmerman was somehow justified because if reasonable people could say that the youth was “tief”like then Zimmerman’s actions become reasonable, when they were not.
I curious though what does “running like a tief” look like? Not being facetious, I genuinely want to know how this is characterized.
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JDB, sometimes ribbit's brain is slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through chunky peanut butter.
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JDB, sometimes ribbit's brain is slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through chunky peanut butter.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: lawd.............no words.....um well allmost :-\ :-\ :-\ :-[ :-[ :-[ :D :D
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dt, seem like yuh still have on your i-see-racism glasses. ah not on that. ah talking about handling day to day everyday situations. dealing with people whether is road rage, bad drive, security guard in de mall, border agents, po po, jehovah's witness, some shouty oman in a bar, etc.. ah saying handling dese kinds of situations is part of basic social skills a person must have in dis society.
tell me something - when you see a police on de corner, you does pull up your hoodie and run the other way? yuh acting like dat behaviour is excuseable? boy, common sense really eh dat common.
Clearly you missed the part where Zimmerman was not a policeman... it coulda be a facking pedophile with a thing for 17-year old black boys. Trayvon was a kid and he thought like a kid... "strange man following me, I need to ride de fack outta Dodge".
sounds like yuh one of de sorfhead dat get tief by de outdated picture of martin dey carrying in de paper.
let's change de context to suit your narrow narrow narrow concept of de situation. say it is a neighbourhood watch on de corner shadowing you. you would pull up your hoodie and scurry away like a 4king manicou? be real. ah shocked to read allyuh taking up for living like a coward. is a 17-year old who 70 feet from he house in a gated community. what kind of society allyuh tink it is? like is joseph kony on de corner or what? allyuh arguing for arguing sake. that was a plain dumb move sad to say. martin too busy studying what de smallie on de phone tell him, he lost his bearings. and allyuh taking up for dis dumb move. steups.
Let's say it was a 17 year old girl he had follow and raped, would we have blamed the girl for what she was wearing or she shoulda not even go outside without she husband.
is all 17 year old girls by you married with husband? elan, women different from men. at least women different from men by me. it sound like things very different by you.
hmmmmmm
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sounds like yuh one of de sorfhead dat get tief by de outdated picture of martin dey carrying in de paper.
let's change de context to suit your narrow narrow narrow concept of de situation. say it is a neighbourhood watch on de corner shadowing you. you would pull up your hoodie and scurry away like a 4king manicou? be real. ah shocked to read allyuh taking up for living like a coward. is a 17-year old who 70 feet from he house in a gated community. what kind of society allyuh tink it is? like is joseph kony on de corner or what? allyuh arguing for arguing sake. that was a plain dumb move sad to say. martin too busy studying what de smallie on de phone tell him, he lost his bearings. and allyuh taking up for dis dumb move. steups.
Ribbit yuh apportioning blame where there is no blame to be placed. Martin did nothing to instigate this situation. He also took actions to avoid confrontation.
Based on the 911 call of the aggressor, he was already pegged as a “tief”. Saying that he was at fault for “running like a tief” is like saying he was at fault for being black, wearing a hoodie, jeans and white sneakers because in Zimmerman’s estimation he was:
“up to no good”
“a f**king asshole”
Had “something wrong with him”
Now all this is from watching a fella walk down a street, no running, no confrontation.
You can’t listen to that tape, hear the facts and suggest that the youth was in any way at fault. Making such a suggestion would fall in line with the idea that Zimmerman was somehow justified because if reasonable people could say that the youth was “tief”like then Zimmerman’s actions become reasonable, when they were not.
I curious though what does “running like a tief” look like? Not being facetious, I genuinely want to know how this is characterized.
JDB, check the order of events that i spelled out of bakes. it's very clear that martin ran first and when cornered tried to talk his way out. just curious, is this how you would have handled this situation?
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sounds like yuh one of de sorfhead dat get tief by de outdated picture of martin dey carrying in de paper.
let's change de context to suit your narrow narrow narrow concept of de situation. say it is a neighbourhood watch on de corner shadowing you. you would pull up your hoodie and scurry away like a 4king manicou? be real. ah shocked to read allyuh taking up for living like a coward. is a 17-year old who 70 feet from he house in a gated community. what kind of society allyuh tink it is? like is joseph kony on de corner or what? allyuh arguing for arguing sake. that was a plain dumb move sad to say. martin too busy studying what de smallie on de phone tell him, he lost his bearings. and allyuh taking up for dis dumb move. steups.
Ribbit yuh apportioning blame where there is no blame to be placed. Martin did nothing to instigate this situation. He also took actions to avoid confrontation.
Based on the 911 call of the aggressor, he was already pegged as a “tief”. Saying that he was at fault for “running like a tief” is like saying he was at fault for being black, wearing a hoodie, jeans and white sneakers because in Zimmerman’s estimation he was:
“up to no good”
“a f**king asshole”
Had “something wrong with him”
Now all this is from watching a fella walk down a street, no running, no confrontation.
You can’t listen to that tape, hear the facts and suggest that the youth was in any way at fault. Making such a suggestion would fall in line with the idea that Zimmerman was somehow justified because if reasonable people could say that the youth was “tief”like then Zimmerman’s actions become reasonable, when they were not.
I curious though what does “running like a tief” look like? Not being facetious, I genuinely want to know how this is characterized.
JDB, check the order of events that i spelled out of bakes. it's very clear that martin ran first and when cornered tried to talk his way out. just curious, is this how you would have handled this situation?
So running in the rain is cause for suspicion?
Man we use to do that shyte all the time as teenagers. When yuh see the police take off running and then stop and laff. None ah we ever get shoot or even ah tap from police and this is in the hell hole that is T&T eh, where ALL police corrupted and unprofessional.
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ribbit is a c**t plain and simple, look I jes say wha all ah allyuh thinking.
It might de effect ah monkey meat...ever thought of that?
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A 16-year-old friend of Trayvon Martin -- the last person to hear from the teenager before he was killed -- is speaking out, according to ABC News.
The teenager, described on "Good Morning America" as Martin's girlfriend, is not being identified by ABC based on instructions from her family. She says that Martin told her he was walking home from the store. ABC obtained call logs from Martin's cell phone.
"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said.
"I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run," she said.
The phone dialog reportedly shows a parallel account of the last moments of Martin's life, which have become embroiled in controversy. According to the Martin family's attorney, the cellphone log contradicts George Zimmerman's claim that he acted in self-defense.
She heard the 17-year-old ask, "What are you following me for?"
Then a man said: "What are you doing around here?"
That man is presumably Zimmerman, who shot Martin on the evening of February 26. Zimmerman was the captain of the neighborhood watch in a gated community in Sanford, Florida.
Read more: 'I am Trayvon Martin': Shooting grips nation, web
"Then somebody pushed Trayvon because the headset just fell," the girl said.
In response to what he said was a suspicious man in the neighborhood, Zimmerman, 28, called police around dusk that evening.
"Something's wrong with him. Yep. He's coming to check me out," Zimmerman told a police dispatcher in a 911 call released Monday. "He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is. Send officers over here."
The teen started to run, according to Zimmerman's account. When he said he was following, the dispatcher told him, "We don't need you to do that."
Moments later, several calls to 911 confirm that neighbors heard screams and cries for help. Martin lay dead from a gunshot wound.
'Zimmerman was also bleeding from his nose and back of his head'
While heated rhetoric online and other venues has influenced characterizations of Martin’s death, a police report obtained by CNN / HLN hints at least of some sort of altercation. “I could observe that (Zimmerman’s) back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground,” the officer wrote.
“Zimmerman was also bleeding from his nose and back of his head,” the report said.
The police report also reveals a reference to a cry for help, a point of contention in the incident.
“While the SFD (Sandford Police Department) was attending to Zimmerman, I overheard him state ‘I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.’ At no point did I question Zimmerman about the incident that had taken place,” the officer wrote in the report.
The Martin family’s attorney Benjamin Crump disputes any notion of Trayvon being the aggressor. On Twitter Tuesday he said: "The claim that #TrayvonMartin was the aggressor in his death is preposterous! We have the tapes and 3 independent witnesses!"
In response to assertions that the teenager was perhaps impaired due to drugs, Crump said at a Tuesday news conference: Martin was acting like his "regular self" and was not "high." He added, "It's what Zimmerman wants you to believe."
CNN / HLN has made numerous attempts to contact Zimmerman, who is Hispanic, but has been unsuccessful. In a statement to the Orlando Sentinel, his father says that Zimmerman grew up in a multiracial family and has moved out of his home after receiving death threats.
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JDB, check the order of events that i spelled out of bakes. it's very clear that martin ran first and when cornered tried to talk his way out. just curious, is this how you would have handled this situation?
Your reasoning is predicated on the fact that Zimmerman was ome type of law enforcement/neighbourhood watch. I would not run from a Police officer or neighbourhood watch but there is absolutely no way for Martin to assume or even guess that this was a neighbourhood watch.
By all reports it sounds like a self-appointed neighbourhood watch with none of the common trappings of a neighbourhood watch (people walking the streets, in teams, with visible identification that they are neighbourhood watch, without weapons). None of the numerous 911 callers referred to Zimmerman as a neighbourhood watch representative, none of them even appeared aqcuainted with him so how was Martin supposed to know and recognize him as a legitimate authority figure.
The 911 transcript is clear as to when he started to run. At that point he was already stigmatized as a thief. Your suggestion is a good one for a hypothetical case of a reasonable person mistaking a person running for something shady. But after being followed and wacthed (most likely glared at) the boy clearly assessed the situation as a menacing one.
In this situation Martin was going to be pursued UNTIL there was a confrontation. He left the street to take the pathways between houses specifically so that the truck couldn’t follow him and this individual claiming self-defense left his truck to pursue him.
The point that people are trying ot make is that he was victimized before he even started running, saying that running was a “dumb” move and somehow contributed to his fate is to lighten the responsibility on the perpertrator.
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He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said.
"I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run," she said.
I say "putting his hoodie on" and "walking fast" is the equivalant of putting putting yuh head down and picking up your pace when you feel threatened or sense danger. Putting the hoodie on is what a youth today would do. That is their way of forming a barrier against perceived threats or when they attempt to block things out. The adult in this situation should have made a better decision-point blank!
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Giggsy, to ribbit it seems like only people with something to hide, particularly black people, it is acting like ah common tief.
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The issue here, as has been alluded to in other posts is that apparently, Zimmerman did not identify himself or his affiliation. He asked Martin, "What are you doing here?" without first identifying himself or his affiliation. If subsequent examination of the evidence proves otherwise, then I will adjust my views accordingly.
However, as things stand, it appears that Zimmerman did not identify himself as neighbourhood watch captain to Martin.
All charges of racial profiling aside, this aspect of the case is extremely troubling to me.
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The real issue here is why was Zimmerman driving around with a loaded gun while he was "acting" as some vigilante.
He was itching for just such a scenario...a nigger tief in his hood.
Nutten more nutten less.
He saw a CHILD walking in his hood that seemed out of place for 2 reasons and 2 reasons alone.
1. He was not recognized as a resident and
2. He was black.
3. His gun gave him false bravado.
4. He get braced and shot an unarmed CHILD!
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Giggsy, to ribbit it seems like only people with something to hide, particularly black people, it is acting like ah common tief.
So running in the rain is cause for suspicion?
This is the crux of the matter.
People need to come out and say what they mean. Ribbit allude to an out-of-date photo of Martin that in all the press. More recent photos of him wearing a hood him looking far less cherubic but that is still irrelevant. It is only pervasive stereotypes that would have a young-black male wearing a hood and running associated with criminality. Far worse if he had a dread, braids and/or jewellery.
A similarly dressed white person gets perceived differently, not just by a fool like Zimmerman, but also by reasonable people without overt racist bias.
As the parent of black males this is a real problem because of what this double standard means. I not personally into urban wear but fashion is fashion and kids will follow it. You see all kids dressing this way in my neighbourhood white, black, asian, hispanic.
As a parent do you restrict your kids freedom for fear of how people’s predjudices would have them characterized – teaching them that they are not equal and have to move differently to their friends. It doesn’t even have to result in something like this, just the day to day first impressions that people make of black kids in urban wear could limit their opportunities.
Or do you embolden them to express themselves as they choose (within the generally accepted norms), don't play into stereotypes, confident in their own virtue and prepared to accept the fact that overt racists and even well-meaning people will stereotype them.
To be clear this is not exclusively a black thing. Middle and upper-class blacks would also stereotype fellow blacks based on clothing and skin-colour.
Also long-haired white kids get stereotyped, goths and these “emo” kids get stereotyped too. The differences are though that none of these are done exclusively on fashion and style choices, race is not a component and none of these are automatically assoicated with criminality.
A young white kid in a white neighbourhood is a “white kid into urban fashion” or even a “white kid trying to be black”. A black kid in the same gear is a thug.
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Giggsy, to ribbit it seems like only people with something to hide, particularly black people, it is acting like ah common tief.
So running in the rain is cause for suspicion?
This is the crux of the matter.
People need to come out and say what they mean. Ribbit allude to an out-of-date photo of Martin that in all the press. More recent photos of him wearing a hood him looking far less cherubic but that is still irrelevant. It is only pervasive stereotypes that would have a young-black male wearing a hood and running associated with criminality. Far worse if he had a dread, braids and/or jewellery.
A similarly dressed white person gets perceived differently, not just by a fool like Zimmerman, but also by reasonable people without overt racist bias.
As the parent of black males this is a real problem because of what this double standard means. I not personally into urban wear but fashion is fashion and kids will follow it. You see all kids dressing this way in my neighbourhood white, black, asian, hispanic.
As a parent do you restrict your kids freedom for fear of how people’s predjudices would have them characterized – teaching them that they are not equal and have to move differently to their friends. It doesn’t even have to result in something like this, just the day to day first impressions that people make of black kids in urban wear could limit their opportunities.
Or do you embolden them to express themselves as they choose (within the generally accepted norms), don't play into stereotypes, confident in their own virtue and prepared to accept the fact that overt racists and even well-meaning people will stereotype them.
To be clear this is not exclusively a black thing. Middle and upper-class blacks would also stereotype fellow blacks based on clothing and skin-colour.
Also long-haired white kids get stereotyped, goths and these “emo” kids get stereotyped too. The differences are though that none of these are done exclusively on fashion and style choices, race is not a component and none of these are automatically assoicated with criminality.
A young white kid in a white neighbourhood is a “white kid into urban fashion” or even a “white kid trying to be black”. A black kid in the same gear is a thug.
I had some similar remarks about those who say that Lucas was racist in Star Was...and I feel is becasue dem have dey feelings...people like f**king ribbit. dem have dey stereotypes so dey passing judgement
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Vick kill ah dog or two he went to jail, Zimmerman killed ah teenager with ah hoodie, running away from what he possibly thought was a predator in de rain with skittles and iced tea in he pocket alone....ribbit say he was acting like ah tief and look for he death
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reread the transcript and you will see your comments above are actually the reverse of what happened. martin ran first then got cornered by zimmerman who had cutback. only then, after casting suspicion in the mind of any reasonable person, did martin try to talk.
check the order of events in the first line of the article:
----------------
so (1) ran after him - because martin was running away
(2) cornered him
(3) confronted him
--------------------------
so your claim that "Martin clearly didn't just up and scurry away" is factually incorrect. he did just up and scurry away. thing is that zimmerman actually cornered him afterwards.
also reread my posts in this thread. i've commented on this already. you obviously missed the points. i won't waste more of my time explaining it to you.
-------------------------
de internet lawyer strikes again. this has nothing to do with any comments i made. you and yur classmates go have yur mock trial on this while your betters handle the real cases. doh hurt up you sorf head on this more than you have time for.
Yuh ent see you's ah tun tun of de highest order?? You telling me re-read de TRANSCRIPTS, but quoting what the little girl hear second hand over de phone? Yuh's ah f**king dunce or what?
From Zimmerman's own 911 tapes (http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html#document/p2/a49098)... not what the girl heard over the phone... from Zimmerman's lips the kid stopped, stared at him, approached him... then ran... presumably somewhere in there he asked him why he was following him.
Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area…
Zimmerman: …looking at all the houses.
Dispatcher: OK…
Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.
Dispatcher: OK—you said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?
Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse…
Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse, do you know what the—he's near the
clubhouse right now?
Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.
Dispatcher: OK.
Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.
Z
Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?
Zimmerman: He's got button on his shirt, late teens.
Dispatcher: Late teens ok.
Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got
something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is.
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok
Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?
Dispatcher: Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does
anything else.
Zimmerman: Okay. These assholes they always get away. When you come to the
clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the
clubhouse.
Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?
Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh
you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. Shit he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Now compare that to what I said:
Martin clearly didn't just up and scurry away... Zimmerman in the 911 call say "he looking at mih... now he coming towards mih". De "smallie" on de phone say "he asked him 'Why are you following me?' " So, Trayvon made an attempt to address the situation.
I doh have to get into no back and forth with you... you yet tuh figure out yuh elbow from yuh asshole. Yuh arguing pell mell that I doh know what I talking about when the evidence right there before yuh eyes. Zimmerman was a giving a clear, contemporaneous commentary of what was taking place, he wasn't trying to recall from memory a traumatic incident in which his good friend was killed, as that little girl was doing. Doh worry, I doh expect yuh to come back and acknowledge yuh was wrong.
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Florida lawmakers have said that Zimmerman's actions are not protected by this law, due to the fact that Zimmerman followed Martin. If there is anything less than an formal charges being brought against Zimmerman, then a conspiracy to cover up is definitely afoot. Perhaps I should take a break from following this case. It makes me seethe with anger every time I think about it.
George Zimmerman Unprotected By Self-Defense Law in Trayvon Martin Killing, Florida Lawmakers Say
Posted: 03/21/2012 6:57 pm
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Sign Up ...Follow: Video, Rep. Corrine Brown, Stand Your Ground, Trayvon Martin, Benjamin Crump, Civil Rights Violations, Federal Civil Rigths Violations, Federal Hate Crimes, George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin Grand Jury, Trayvon Martin Investigation, Trayvon Martin Sanford, Trayvon Martin Shooting, Black Voices News .
George Zimmerman is seen in police mug shot provided by the Orange County, Fla., Jail, via The Mimai Herald, from a 2005 arrest. Zimmerman is the neighborhood watch captain who shot unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin, 17, in a gated community in Sanford, Fla. in February 2012. (AP Photo/Orange County Jail via Miami Herald) Republican state lawmakers in Florida responsible for a controversial 2005 self-defense law said it shouldn't apply to a neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old, in February.
Police in Sanford, Fla., declined to charge George Zimmerman, 28, saying they lack evidence refuting his claim of self-defense in the fatal confrontation. Under the 2005 law, called Stand Your Ground, Florida residents can use lethal force against an attacker if they believe their life is threatened, regardless of the location.
In recorded calls to police, Zimmerman describes following Martin in his car and calls him 'suspicious.' A dispatcher tells him not to pursue Martin, but Zimmerman persists. In statements to police, Zimmerman claimed that Martin then attacked him and he shot the teenager in self-defense, police said.
Martin weighed nearly 100 pounds less than Zimmerman and was found carrying only a bag of Skittles candy and a can of iced tea. Police said that without evidence proving that Zimmerman attacked Martin first, they had no grounds to charge him with a crime.
Dennis Baxley, a Republican state representative and co-author of the 2005 self-defense law, said Zimmerman negated his ability to claim immunity under the law by chasing Martin.
"This law is for innocent, law-abiding citizens who are under attack by a perpetrator," Baxley told The Huffington Post. "Anyone who is out pursuing and confronting people is not protected by this statute."
"I think they need to go back and read the statute," Baxley said, referring to the Sanford Police Department.
Former Republican State Sen. Durell Peadon, another co-author of the law, said Zimmerman "has no protection under my law."
"They need to prosecute whoever shot the kid," Peadon told the Miami Herald on Tuesday.
Gun rights advocates also question the decision not to charge Zimmerman.
"I don't see why he hasn't been arrested," said Sean Caranna, executive director of Florida Carry, a gun rights group.
Zimmerman had no right to follow and confront Martin in the first place, Caranna noted.
"Being the neighborhood watch guy doesn't give you carte blanche to stop and question every guy you see walking down the street," Caranna said.
A spokesman for the Sanford Police Department did not respond to a request for comment.
Critics of the 2005 self-defense law said its broad wording led to a perception among Florida residents and law enforcement that the use of deadly force is justified in almost any circumstance in which a person perceives themselves to be in danger. The self-defense doctrine has also been invoked as a defense by hundreds of people involved in fights and shootings, complicating formerly straightforward criminal cases, legal experts said.
"On a practical level, it seems that prosecutors in Florida are much less inclined to pursue homicide charges in cases when someone claims self-defense,' said Scott Sundby, a professor at the University of Miami School of Law.
The Martin shooting is now in the hands of Seminole County prosecutor Norman Wolfinger, who said this week that he will bring the case before a grand jury in April. The U.S. Justice Department and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement are also involved in the case.
In a statement, Wolfinger pledged a "thorough, deliberate and just" review of the facts. "We appreciate our community's care and concern in this case," he said. "It is our community too."
Weeks passed before Wolfinger took any action, however, leading some to question whether the matter would have ever reached a grand jury were it not for the public outrage that erupted after Martin's parents called for justice.
"If it were not for the public outcry I think it's very clear that the prosecution would not have gone forward," Sundby said.
A spokeswoman for Wolfinger could not be reached for comment.
Sundby agreed with Republican lawmakers that Zimmerman's apparent pursuit of Martin exceeded even the broad bounds of the self-defense law, which loosened the standards by which citizens can use deadly force to repel an attack or stop a violent crime in progress.
"You cannot provoke the confrontation. You cannot be the instigator and then claim 'stand your ground,' Sundby said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/21/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-_n_1371171.html
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I was in a neighborhood watch before in Fredericksburg Virginia before. We had magnets we placed on our cars identifying us as such when we patrolled.
None of us went armed. I had occasion to question persons in my neighborhood before but I never chased anyone, slowly followed anyone either as that contradicted common sense.
I remember asking a guy if he needed help finding someone, he responded "No thanks I am fine." I told him sorry just making sure, I am part of the neighborhood watch and we were our protecting our neighborhood. Have a nice day.
Turned out the guy had purchased a home up on the hilly cul de sac.
He later signed up for the watch.
No need to follow anyone no need to call the police just because he was not known to me. No need to characterize the man as suspicious just becasue I did not recognize him.
Zimmerman went out armed hoping he one day would stop a robbery etc. and be a hero.
Nothing more than that he is a f**king asshole killer.
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Well I heard our own resident Attorney Bake and Shark on radio tonight discussing the Trayvon/Zimmerman case. Nice discussion Bakes, congrats on being called as an expert. You acquitted yourself very well.
For around 16 minutes you did a very credible job discussing the case.
WHen ribbit get dragged before the courts for talking assness maybe he can retain yuh as a paralegal lol
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Well I heard our own resident Attorney Bake and Shark on radio tonight discussing the Trayvon/Zimmerman case. Nice discussion Bakes, congrats on being called as an expert. You acquitted yourself very well.
For around 16 minutes you did a very credible job discussing the case.
WHen ribbit get dragged before the courts for talking assness maybe he can retain yuh as a paralegal lol
Haha you like shit yes... dat was just me and mih classmates practicing fuh we mock trial man. We cyah hang with men like Ribbit who still trying tuh figure out de difference between a newspaper interview and transcripts.
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Well I heard our own resident Attorney Bake and Shark on radio tonight discussing the Trayvon/Zimmerman case. Nice discussion Bakes, congrats on being called as an expert. You acquitted yourself very well.
For around 16 minutes you did a very credible job discussing the case.
WHen ribbit get dragged before the courts for talking assness maybe he can retain yuh as a paralegal lol
Haha you like shit yes... dat was just me and mih classmates practicing fuh we mock trial man. We cyah hang with men like Ribbit who still trying tuh figure out de difference between a newspaper interview and transcripts.
nah seriously, hearing yuh on a nice NY radio station discussing the case was real nice, ah was proud of how yuh handle yuh stories.
I did not know you had graduated and had a decent practice going already.
Niceness.
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Psychological Issues In The Trayvon Martin Shooting Case
Gina Simmons Gina Simmons, Contributor
http://www.forbes.com/sites/crime/2012/03/21/psychological-issues-in-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-case/
When news outlets reported the shooting death of unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, I experienced a sad feeling of déjà vu.
I once counseled a traumatized 14-year-old African-American boy and his single mother after he was nearly shot by police in his living room. The boy, whom I’ll call Jayson, stayed home sick from school. He disobeyed his mother and left the house to do some target practice with his new pellet gun at a local construction site.
A construction worker saw what he described as a “young black man with a gun” and called emergency 911. Jayson, worried that he would get in trouble, ran all the way home. The construction worker followed him, and the police, with guns drawn, crashed through Jayson’s front door. Fortunately, the real-looking pellet gun was out of his hands at the time, otherwise Jayson, according to the police, would have been shot.
Attorney Benjamin Crump speaks with the media about his clients' son
Many psychological factors likely played a role in Trayvon Martin’s tragic death. Racial prejudice may have primed the shooter, George Zimmerman, to believe that any African American walking in his neighborhood posed a threat. If Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, suffered from paranoia, or unreasonable suspicion, it would explain why he both called the police and followed Trayvon. Zimmerman called police 46 times in the months leading up to the shooting of Trayvon Martin. Police released six of those calls. Four of the calls complained about suspicious people in the neighborhood, all of whom were black.
Zimmerman’s thinking may have been muddied by what psychologists call the confirmation bias. When governed by the confirmation bias you only see evidence that supports your belief about a situation. Zimmerman, with his excessive calls to the police, likely had a number of paranoid biases. Excessive threat sensitivity might have led him to view any innocent black person in the neighborhood as a criminal. Racist beliefs may have combined with a paranoid imagination to make him see threats that did not exist.
The self-fulfilling prophecy bias may have played a role in this tragedy as well. Zimmerman, followed Martin even after the dispatcher told him to stop. Martin reportedly talked on the phone to a teenage girl moments before he was shot. Martin said someone was following him. Martin walked fast at first, then he ran, according to the girl. Zimmerman’s bias may have created the violent encounter he seemed determined to prevent.
All of us fall victim to faulty decisions based on perceptual distortions and biases. The more emotionally charged our beliefs, the greater the danger for perceptual bias, or seeing things in a distorted way. Zimmerman, from his call to the police non-emergency number, seemed to have a score to settle. “These a..holes. They always get away,” he said to the dispatcher. Martin, chatting on the phone with his girlfriend, looked to Zimmerman as if he were “on drugs or something.”
Those with high levels of anxiety interpret ambiguous stimuli, like a stranger in the neighborhood, as far more threatening than normal people would. Florida’s governor signed a law last June that forbids physicians from talking about gun ownership with patients, even though several medical associations and the CDC fault the law for public health reasons. Both Martin and Zimmerman were faced with an ambiguous situation.
“What are you following me for?” Martin asked.
“What are you doing here?” Zimmerman, in turn, asked.
We may never know exactly what happened, but the way these young men interpreted the ambiguous situation left one unarmed 17 year old dead. If I had to guess which of these men had the greater level of preexisting anxiety, I would say it was the one with the gun.
-
Psychological Issues In The Trayvon Martin Shooting Case
Gina Simmons Gina Simmons, Contributor
http://www.forbes.com/sites/crime/2012/03/21/psychological-issues-in-the-trayvon-martin-shooting-case/
When news outlets reported the shooting death of unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, I experienced a sad feeling of déjà vu.
I once counseled a traumatized 14-year-old African-American boy and his single mother after he was nearly shot by police in his living room. The boy, whom I’ll call Jayson, stayed home sick from school. He disobeyed his mother and left the house to do some target practice with his new pellet gun at a local construction site.
A construction worker saw what he described as a “young black man with a gun” and called emergency 911. Jayson, worried that he would get in trouble, ran all the way home. The construction worker followed him, and the police, with guns drawn, crashed through Jayson’s front door. Fortunately, the real-looking pellet gun was out of his hands at the time, otherwise Jayson, according to the police, would have been shot.
Attorney Benjamin Crump speaks with the media about his clients' son
Many psychological factors likely played a role in Trayvon Martin’s tragic death. Racial prejudice may have primed the shooter, George Zimmerman, to believe that any African American walking in his neighborhood posed a threat. If Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, suffered from paranoia, or unreasonable suspicion, it would explain why he both called the police and followed Trayvon. Zimmerman called police 46 times in the months leading up to the shooting of Trayvon Martin. Police released six of those calls. Four of the calls complained about suspicious people in the neighborhood, all of whom were black.
Zimmerman’s thinking may have been muddied by what psychologists call the confirmation bias. When governed by the confirmation bias you only see evidence that supports your belief about a situation. Zimmerman, with his excessive calls to the police, likely had a number of paranoid biases. Excessive threat sensitivity might have led him to view any innocent black person in the neighborhood as a criminal. Racist beliefs may have combined with a paranoid imagination to make him see threats that did not exist.
The self-fulfilling prophecy bias may have played a role in this tragedy as well. Zimmerman, followed Martin even after the dispatcher told him to stop. Martin reportedly talked on the phone to a teenage girl moments before he was shot. Martin said someone was following him. Martin walked fast at first, then he ran, according to the girl. Zimmerman’s bias may have created the violent encounter he seemed determined to prevent.
All of us fall victim to faulty decisions based on perceptual distortions and biases. The more emotionally charged our beliefs, the greater the danger for perceptual bias, or seeing things in a distorted way. Zimmerman, from his call to the police non-emergency number, seemed to have a score to settle. “These a..holes. They always get away,” he said to the dispatcher. Martin, chatting on the phone with his girlfriend, looked to Zimmerman as if he were “on drugs or something.”
Those with high levels of anxiety interpret ambiguous stimuli, like a stranger in the neighborhood, as far more threatening than normal people would. Florida’s governor signed a law last June that forbids physicians from talking about gun ownership with patients, even though several medical associations and the CDC fault the law for public health reasons. Both Martin and Zimmerman were faced with an ambiguous situation.
“What are you following me for?” Martin asked.
“What are you doing here?” Zimmerman, in turn, asked.
We may never know exactly what happened, but the way these young men interpreted the ambiguous situation left one unarmed 17 year old dead. If I had to guess which of these men had the greater level of preexisting anxiety, I would say it was the one with the gun.
I guess there has to be some form of clinical analysis to all this but there is one line in the whole piece that, in this case, is at the heart of the matter for me: "...Zimmerman’s bias may have created the violent encounter he seemed determined to prevent..."
Quite frankly, I do not believe in my mind or heart that this idiot was actually trying to prevent a violent encounter as much as he may have always been looking for one...and I will quote one of your prior comments to shamelessly reinforce my sentiment:
"...He was itching for just such a scenario...a nigger tief in his hood...."
I really wouldn't even put it past this fool to have made all the previous calls to the police as some veiled attempt at creating some sort of precursory pattern to falsely create a defense scenario for this same type of situation (should it occurr) that has now occurred. He probably had it out for these lil' f**kers that, according to him, always gettin' away with shit and saw joining "neighborhood watch" as a means to this very end, who knows? Kinda like all them youths that joined the military after 9-11 to go in the middle east and start killin' and mistreating "ragheads" and "camel jockeys" with (perceived) impunity.
One of the other things that strike me when reading the "transcripts" of the 911 cal is that zimmerman described the "troublemaker" only as "a black male" and he seemed to be satisfied to stop and go no further. The dispatcher had to ask for more detail. It doesn't bother people like ribbit and his ilk that the caller, for all his enthused police participation in neighborhood watch, fell so poorly short of a continued description as is customary for someone with zimmermann's.....authority? expertise? training?
Obviously, men like yourself, JDB and others are long on patience and "teaching moments" where others like ribbit are short on common sense...or ANY sense at all. I could only feel embarrassed to know that one of my fellow countrymen could be so dumb.
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I willin to bet fat boy Zim practice the Dirty Harry 'do ya feel lucky punk' speech plenty plenty times in the mirror.
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I willin to bet fat boy Zim practice the Dirty Harry 'do ya feel lucky punk' speech plenty plenty times in the mirror.
I feel so, seriously!
Why he driving with gun for? Itching for scenario to use it dais all.
He tackle the youth who tried to defend himself...zim get more than he bargain for and shoot the people child.
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I willin to bet fat boy Zim practice the Dirty Harry 'do ya feel lucky punk' speech plenty plenty times in the mirror.
I feel so, seriously!
Why he driving with gun for? Itching for scenario to use it dais all.
He tackle the youth who tried to defend himself...zim get more than he bargain for and shoot the people child.
Obviously. "They always get away". Steups.
A lil bit again he probably might sound like Uncle Ruckus.
http://www.youtube.com/v/2jxtHzMOe1w
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and ribbit planning for the launch of his pending "Free Zimmerman" Tee Shirt launch
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and ribbit planning for the launch of his pending "Free Zimmerman" Tee Shirt launch
Me eh fault him,,pleny plenty people in florida go buy dem....he go make a mint
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and ribbit planning for the launch of his pending "Free Zimmerman" Tee Shirt launch
Me eh fault him,,pleny plenty people in florida go buy dem....he go make a mint
why yuh doh PM him and ask him to send you one ah he new jock straps....?
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and ribbit planning for the launch of his pending "Free Zimmerman" Tee Shirt launch
Me eh fault him,,pleny plenty people in florida go buy dem....he go make a mint
why yuh doh PM him and ask him to send you one ah he new jock straps....?
hmm, in de last thread like yuh was offerin someting me eh want ..and now this?
ah bet if giggsy point she gaydar at your threads de alarm go start beepin like mad
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and ribbit planning for the launch of his pending "Free Zimmerman" Tee Shirt launch
Me eh fault him,,pleny plenty people in florida go buy dem....he go make a mint
why yuh doh PM him and ask him to send you one ah he new jock straps....?
hmm, in de last thread like yuh was offerin someting me eh want ..and now this?
ah bet if giggsy point she gaydar at your threads de alarm go start beepin like mad
yuh know yuh right, is not de jock strap yuh go want...I sorry.....yuh want de contents.
doh bother to reply nah.....thanks
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(http://www.eticketride.org/gallery/d/1765-2/Gaydar.jpg?g2_GALLERYSID=5d8fa91437e8edcf8476acb77ccf7647)
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why yuh always have to go for gaydar? Yuh want help in searching out love?
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(http://www.eticketride.org/gallery/d/1765-2/Gaydar.jpg?g2_GALLERYSID=5d8fa91437e8edcf8476acb77ccf7647)
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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The fuss day one ah allyuh who like tuh play fair minded and objective lose one of allyuh chiren to ah trigger happy whiteman, ah will be here waiting tuh see if allyuh go remain cool and collective about the situation, bc i know if dat was ah white boy in bussup jeans wid tattos and earings, he would not have been accosted.
i does pray dat none ah dem fellas eh come round my family wid dat gun shootin business, bc i tellin allyuh, i puulin ah fackin rambo!!!!!!! i killin the whole family and den exiling my self to some place weh dey cyar extradite meh, yuh tink is joke! these mdcnts overdoing it now man!
dat mdfkr could never walk free and safe like ah bird while my chile gone through @ his hands, no fackin way on this green earth! i just pray that God protect me from that fate, bc i have real mad blood, and i not taking dat dry sooo! and if i cyar fack them up physically, then i going by pappa neza fuh dey mdcnt, is real fackin war! i just sick of this bull sh!t here in this country where white boys just feel that they have the right to hunt black ppl chiren. :frustrated:
poor fellah
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And why shouldn't i ! they've been robing and raping the planet for centuries, stole my ancestors from their home land tuh make them work fuh free, rob me of my name my language and culture, and then want tuh portray me as the villain, and when i express my displeasure they try tuh make me look like i too angry.
and say it for what it is, i have a problem with the white power structure, not civilians, but ah guess your head is way way way up your own arse and too mesmerized and drunkend with the smell of your own sh!t to see the difference.
PS: if it have any blackman ouit there in the diaspora who is ah product of slavery, and believe that slavery had no lasting effect on their lives even to this day, let them think again!
Dred you yuhself saying it right here... you have a problem with white people, as is your right, I can't tell you what to do. I never questioned why you did, nor did I question your right TO or NOT to have a problem with white people. I made a simple observation that you, after much opprobrium, agreed with. So I really doh understand all the hostility.
just cool you say that at home ... in front of your madam .....
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And why shouldn't i ! they've been robing and raping the planet for centuries, stole my ancestors from their home land tuh make them work fuh free, rob me of my name my language and culture, and then want tuh portray me as the villain, and when i express my displeasure they try tuh make me look like i too angry.
and say it for what it is, i have a problem with the white power structure, not civilians, but ah guess your head is way way way up your own arse and too mesmerized and drunkend with the smell of your own sh!t to see the difference.
PS: if it have any blackman ouit there in the diaspora who is ah product of slavery, and believe that slavery had no lasting effect on their lives even to this day, let them think again!
Dred you yuhself saying it right here... you have a problem with white people, as is your right, I can't tell you what to do. I never questioned why you did, nor did I question your right TO or NOT to have a problem with white people. I made a simple observation that you, after much opprobrium, agreed with. So I really doh understand all the hostility.
just cool you say that at home ... in front of your madam .....
It's the truth ain't it??
please, weh allyuh feel, white ppl here in foreign as soft as allyuh trinis? it have white ppl who does call out white oppression here in america every day, an for the most part, ashamed of their country's past. my woman would be the fuss tuh call out her own ppl, sometimes i does have tuh be the voice of reasoning.
it have real liberal white folks here in america who went against their own parents in the name of justice and equality. wham yuh was sleepin fuh the past 40 yrs, or yuh never heard of the hippy movement, who literally joined the black power movement in order to over throw white supremacy here in america during the sixties and seventies. ??
i swear, the kind of questions yuhs guys does ask ::), like izah mammapool man and my oman have ah muzzle on me. stueps.
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de best quote from martin mother:
"This is not a black-white thing."
of course, sharpton and his rabble already hijacking this ting with their hoodie and skittles demonstration.
and ribbit planning for the launch of his pending "Free Zimmerman" Tee Shirt launch
apparently zimmerman is a child predator hanging out in a 4king gated community in suburban florida which must be a very rough area of the world. martin must have known this and since he had a very valuable pack of skittles on his person, he decided instead of risking this precious treasure to some madman he would run away from a man with a gun (bullets doh travel as fast in sanford florida). this is a completely rational course of action that tt, etc. would all handle the same way as dialogue is the last possible course of action to an american.
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Ribbit you could argue that running away wasn't the absolute best thing to do, but I'm not sure if that point changes anything about the acceptability of shooting the guy. Based on what I read, I can't reason with killing in this scenario. It just doesn't make sense.
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The fuss day one ah allyuh who like tuh play fair minded and objective lose one of allyuh chiren to ah trigger happy whiteman, ah will be here waiting tuh see if allyuh go remain cool and collective about the situation, bc i know if dat was ah white boy in bussup jeans wid tattos and earings, he would not have been accosted.
i does pray dat none ah dem fellas eh come round my family wid dat gun shootin business, bc i tellin allyuh, i puulin ah fackin rambo!!!!!!! i killin the whole family and den exiling my self to some place weh dey cyar extradite meh, yuh tink is joke! these mdcnts overdoing it now man!
dat mdfkr could never walk free and safe like ah bird while my chile gone through @ his hands, no fackin way on this green earth! i just pray that God protect me from that fate, bc i have real mad blood, and i not taking dat dry sooo! and if i cyar fack them up physically, then i going by pappa neza fuh dey mdcnt, is real fackin war! i just sick of this bull sh!t here in this country where white boys just feel that they have the right to hunt black ppl chiren. :frustrated:
poor fellah
Listen meh boy, before i have tuh start getting real disrespectful on yuh, please stop hunting me for responses! you mdfkcrs livin in canada up there in disneyland doh have tuh deal wid the same fackin whiteman we have tuh deal wid down here.
believe me, i know canada very well, and it's real fackin airyfairy, if ah dog get bounce down in canada it's front page news in all ten provinces.
up there white chicks does be pickin up all kinda bummy toothless rastas and taking care of them like kings, that's how easy and gullable canadians are, the same canada that was giving those con men and women from caroni and barrakpor political asylum.
in TO allyuh trinis is macomareman who does allow them JKANS tuh push allyuh around and run all over allyuh, and most westindian yutes does try tuh go on like yardman, for fear of being bullied, fuss allyuh shook!
so don't try tuh place me on your jest list my friend, bc like i said countless times before, i barely love discussing complexed social issues wid trinis, let alone allyuh fresh water gentrified chanucks. :puking:
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de best quote from martin mother:
"This is not a black-white thing."
of course, sharpton and his rabble already hijacking this ting with their hoodie and skittles demonstration.
and ribbit planning for the launch of his pending "Free Zimmerman" Tee Shirt launch
apparently zimmerman is a child predator hanging out in a 4king gated community in suburban florida which must be a very rough area of the world. martin must have known this and since he had a very valuable pack of skittles on his person, he decided instead of risking this precious treasure to some madman he would run away from a man with a gun (bullets doh travel as fast in sanford florida). this is a completely rational course of action that tt, etc. would all handle the same way as dialogue is the last possible course of action to an american.
You really insist on coming on here and showing what an ignorant person you are. You really have no clue jed.....may I suggest that, if you have children, in whatever fairy tale part of the world you live in, you hug them and tell them how much you love them and thank which ever God you pray to (if you believe in God at all) that you and your children doh have to endure all the shit that people like Trayvon Martin's parents (and so many others) have had to go through in America. Based on your posts in this thread, man, I starting to think you might be closely related to george zimmerman. Sleep well with your simple mind intact.
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de best quote from martin mother:
"This is not a black-white thing."
of course, sharpton and his rabble already hijacking this ting with their hoodie and skittles demonstration.
and ribbit planning for the launch of his pending "Free Zimmerman" Tee Shirt launch
apparently zimmerman is a child predator hanging out in a 4king gated community in suburban florida which must be a very rough area of the world. martin must have known this and since he had a very valuable pack of skittles on his person, he decided instead of risking this precious treasure to some madman he would run away from a man with a gun (bullets doh travel as fast in sanford florida). this is a completely rational course of action that tt, etc. would all handle the same way as dialogue is the last possible course of action to an american.
So a man following you ina car....yuh eh have ah clue who de f**k he is. he eh identify heself, yuh he know that he armed....yuh walking back home....and de man ask yuh what yuh doing here...yuh ask him who he is...Zimmerman look like ah f**king pedophile anyway...seriously..the youth decide to increase he pace to escape...pedophile call the police ...reporting ah black man looking suspicious and seeminly on drugs like most black men....police say doh follow...."dese assholes always get away...(but not today...zimms decide he catching one and being a fokcing hero) .....youth look back, put n he hoodie and start to run...pedophile looking cretin decides he getting out he car to run down CHILD.....he must be grab de child...who is BAWLING for help....shot fired CHILD dead in grass...Pedophile cries self defense...and f**king you Ribbit have no trouble with that and all you can see is that the CHILD ran...f**k you,,,you is ah asshole
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de best quote from martin mother:
"This is not a black-white thing."
of course, sharpton and his rabble already hijacking this ting with their hoodie and skittles demonstration.
and ribbit planning for the launch of his pending "Free Zimmerman" Tee Shirt launch
apparently zimmerman is a child predator hanging out in a 4king gated community in suburban florida which must be a very rough area of the world. martin must have known this and since he had a very valuable pack of skittles on his person, he decided instead of risking this precious treasure to some madman he would run away from a man with a gun (bullets doh travel as fast in sanford florida). this is a completely rational course of action that tt, etc. would all handle the same way as dialogue is the last possible course of action to an american.
So a man following you ina car....yuh eh have ah clue who de f**k he is. he eh identify heself, yuh he know that he armed....yuh walking back home....and de man ask yuh what yuh doing here...yuh ask him who he is...Zimmerman look like ah f**king pedophile anyway...seriously..the youth decide to increase he pace to escape...pedophile call the police ...reporting ah black man looking suspicious and seeminly on drugs like most black men....police say doh follow...."dese assholes always get away...(but not today...zimms decide he catching one and being a fokcing hero) .....youth look back, put n he hoodie and start to run...pedophile looking cretin decides he getting out he car to run down CHILD.....he must be grab de child...who is BAWLING for help....shot fired CHILD dead in grass...Pedophile cries self defense...and f**king you Ribbit have no trouble with that and all you can see is that the CHILD ran...f**k you,,,you is ah asshole
I don't know why yuh eating up yuhself wid these bredders for nah. yuh dun know that most of our ppl does only see things in black and white. and despite how educated and worldly we trinis like to think of ourselves, the truth is, we are actually the opposite, ah very ignorant media oriented ppl.
when ah man could find fault would ah fella saying that he have a problem with the white "establishment" bc of it's past and present policies (which even some white ppl express their discontent as well) and for slavery and colonialism, and these same ppl find it uncouth to even mention it, is enough evidence to show the kind of mentality yuh dealing with.
i eh lying, the transplanted trini canadians are the most shocking of them all, well not all of them, but the vast majority that i've encountered have ah real gentrified white (american southerner) mainstream view of the world, and the sad part iz, born and bred white english canadians are real socially conscious ppl, so this weird antisocial phenomenon is quit strange to behold.
good luck wid this rabbit fella, i've tried that yrs ago and realize that he eh worth the effort.
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Allyuh have time with that cunnyhole... didn't I predict that he would come back and NOT acknowledge the fact that Trayvon didn't just up and start running but that he made an attempt to find out wtf was going on with Zimmerman first? Ribbit is ah c**t.
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There seems to be a consensus building ... in brief and in sum to boot ... de fella effortlessly obtuse.
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This is a real tragedy but what makes it even worst is the fact that the police using self defence not to at least start a proper investigation, just read on CNN that some sort of investigator was put on the case by the local authorities (not police) and that is not a federal case unless it could be proven that the killer used racist remarks during the incident.
This fella going to get away with it.
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This is a real tragedy but what makes it even worst is the fact that the police using self defence not to at least start a proper investigation, just read on CNN that some sort of investigator was put on the case by the local authorities (not police) and that is not a federal case unless it could be proven that the killer used racist remarks during the incident.
This fella going to get away with it.
I bet he will not get away with it. Somebody will take him up sooner or later. That is why the fool in hiding!
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This is a real tragedy but what makes it even worst is the fact that the police using self defence not to at least start a proper investigation, just read on CNN that some sort of investigator was put on the case by the local authorities (not police) and that is not a federal case unless it could be proven that the killer used racist remarks during the incident.
This fella going to get away with it.
You grossly understating the situation. Part of it might be yuh unfamiliarity with how things are in the US. That "local authorities" yuh talking about is the State Attorney's office. Sanford is not a big jurisdiction... unlike TnT where we have one national police department, this is the equivalent of Valencia having they own police, who decide not to charge. Each state in the US has broad autonomy and the federal government cannot get involved unless there is a violation of federal law... or crimes that take place across multiple jurisdictions (kidnap somebody in Florida and take them to Georgia for instance). In this case the only federal crime that would be under consideration is violation of Trayvon's civil rights.
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This is a real tragedy but what makes it even worst is the fact that the police using self defence not to at least start a proper investigation, just read on CNN that some sort of investigator was put on the case by the local authorities (not police) and that is not a federal case unless it could be proven that the killer used racist remarks during the incident.
This fella going to get away with it.
You grossly understating the situation. Part of it might be yuh unfamiliarity with how things are in the US. That "local authorities" yuh talking about is the State Attorney's office. Sanford is not a big jurisdiction... unlike TnT where we have one national police department, this is the equivalent of Valencia having they own police, who decide not to charge. Each state in the US has broad autonomy and the federal government cannot get involved unless there is a violation of federal law... or crimes that take place across multiple jurisdictions (kidnap somebody in Florida and take them to Georgia for instance). In this case the only federal crime that would be under consideration is violation of Trayvon's civil rights.
so Bakes you saying that zimmerman could get away with what appears to be outright murder if the state attorney don't prosecute?
i have not followed the story closely. Why isn't the SA prosecuting?
edit
will you post or PM a link to your radio podcast on this topic if available? (the one that you and TT referred to earlier)
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If yuh can't change racist stereotyping yuh better be prepared to change your clothes.
I shaking my head at this one because he goes so far as to say black and latinos in are putting themselves at risk in hoodies without acknowledging that it is different for whites. Is it really the hoodie that is the criminality stereotype.
The link has a video of the discourse.
Fox News' Geraldo Rivera attributed Trayvon Martin's tragic death to his hoodie on Friday morning's "Fox and Friends." (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/23/geraldo-rivera-trayvon-martin-hoodie_n_1375080.html?ref=media)
Martin, an unarmed Florida teenager, was shot to death by a self-appointed neighborhood watch volunteer named George Zimmerman in late February. His death has become a national tragedy, and the police handling of Zimmerman has further fueled uproar over the case.
On Friday morning, Rivera said that he had a "different take" on the case than most other people. He said that he believed George Zimmerman should be "investigated to the fullest extent of the law" and "prosecuted" if criminally liable, but blamed Martin's parents for letting him go outside wearing a hoodie.
"But I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies," Rivera insisted. "I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death as George Zimmerman was."
When asked to clarify his remarks, Rivera said that he cautioned his own son against wearing hoodies. He explained, "When you, when you see a kid walking — Juliet — when you see a kid walking down the street, particularly a dark skinned kid like my son Cruz, who I constantly yelled at when he was going out wearing a damn hoodie or those pants around his ankles. Take that hood off, people look at you and they — what do they think? What’s the instant identification, what’s the instant association?"
"Uh-oh," remarked Steve Doocy.
"It’s those crime scene surveillance tapes," Rivera continued. "Every time you see someone sticking up a 7-11, the kid is wearing a hoodie. [...] When you see a black or Latino youngster, particularly on the street, you walk to the other side of the street. You try to avoid that confrontation."
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Geraldo has a point -we have to cater to our environment as far as fashion and manner - that's the reality if you accept that the world is bigger than one person.... but IN NO WAY can anyone say that the kid's attire is partly to blame for getting shot!! That's a separate point.
There is no good excuse for shooting this kid -full stop!
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Geraldo has a point -we have to cater to our environment as far as fashion and manner - that's the reality if you accept that the world is bigger than one person.... but IN NO WAY can anyone say that the kid's attire is partly to blame for getting shot!! That's a separate point.
There is no good excuse for shooting this kid -full stop!
Them damn girls who getting rape needs to stop wearing cycle shorts and tank top.
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Geraldo has a point -we have to cater to our environment as far as fashion and manner - that's the reality if you accept that the world is bigger than one person.... but IN NO WAY can anyone say that the kid's attire is partly to blame for getting shot!! That's a separate point.
There is no good excuse for shooting this kid -full stop!
Them damn girls who getting rape needs to stop wearing cycle shorts and tank top.
There was a fair bit of controversy a year or so ago up here. This rapist was being sentenced and the judge made a statement that if the victim was not wearing the type of clothes she was wearing that night, perhaps she would not have been raped. He attributed part of the responsibility to the victim and reduced the sentence of the rapist accordingly. A police chief made a similar statement as well in an unrelated case if my memory serves me correctly.
Those two cases spawned an event that is now know as "The Slut Walk" in protests to these stereotypes and misinformed beliefs that the victim is to blame for being raped if she dresses provocatively (i.e like a 'slut').
Toronto Slut Walk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SlutWalk)
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I mean, it was only two weeks ago when almost every white person I knew was tweeting about stopping a brutal African warlord from killing more innocent children. And they even took thirty minutes out of their busy schedules to watch a movie about dude. They bought t-shirts. Some bracelets. Even tweeted at Rihanna to take a stance. But, a 17 year old American kid is followed and then ultimately killed by a neighborhood vigilante who happens to be carrying a semi-automatic weapon and my white friends are quiet. Eerily quiet. Not even a trending topic for the young man.
BIG POST!!!
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Them damn girls who getting rape needs to stop wearing cycle shorts and tank top.
Is Trayvon fault! He shoulda put on a suit and tie to buy skittles and ice-t by the store. And then walk up to the man who following him with a gun and grin and shake his hand.
And all these little girls and boys have to stop running around being innocent children or is their fault if some pedophile kidnap them.
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so Bakes you saying that zimmerman could get away with what appears to be outright murder if the state attorney don't prosecute?
i have not followed the story closely. Why isn't the SA prosecuting?
edit
will you post or PM a link to your radio podcast on this topic if available? (the one that you and TT referred to earlier)
If the State Attorney's office doesn't prosecute then yes, there's a good.. not great... just good chance he'll walk. But there's a very good chance that the DOJ will prosecute regardless, based on the numerous references to Trayvon's race, the 46 prior calls to the Sanford PD, with a clear pattern of focusing on black males... and of course the newly discovered racial epiteth.
The State Attorney's hasn't yet made a determination about prosecuting, so it's not that they're NOT prosecuting. They just convened a grand jury to investigate (separate from the Keystone Kops routine put on by the Sanford PD) and pending the outcome of the grand jury investigation, then a decision will be made on prosecution... if he's indicted he'll face trial, if not, he walks.
I'll see if I can get an archived link or podcast and PM it.
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that is real sad. this yute had the wrong reaction to the situation: putting on de hoodie and running away from a NW look too much like tief.
but what a culture in america. is evident de yute and de smallie eh even tink about calling 911 or police. daiz a measure of generations of mistrust. dey were taught: doh call no one. and DAT is what make a ready-made victim.
Perhaps you could produce a manual on how not to look suspicious so as to avoid being killed due to prejudice.
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that is real sad. this yute had the wrong reaction to the situation: putting on de hoodie and running away from a NW look too much like tief.
but what a culture in america. is evident de yute and de smallie eh even tink about calling 911 or police. daiz a measure of generations of mistrust. dey were taught: doh call no one. and DAT is what make a ready-made victim.
Ribbit, against my better judgement lemme entertain your thought process for a minute and relate an incident that happened to me a couple years ago in NYC...
I was walking home a night around 3am and as I bend the corner, i was almost certain i was being followed. Me and this person alone on the street, and instinctively my reaction was to place both hands in my pockets, cross the street and look at the person directly in his face while continuing to walk.. My reaction was to let him believe i could have had something on me and also to let him know i was aware of his presence.. The person continued walking and that was the end of that.
Now to me, there are similarities in the way I addressed that situation to the way Trayvon Martin did in that...
a) I recognized the presence of an imminent threat
b) I assumed a defensive posture
c) I attempted to distance myself from the threat
To expect me, or anyone else faced with a situation like that responding to a perceived threat by engaging in dialogue is preposterous. I done bracing for conflict.
Now lets suppose that situation turned out differently.. Lets say the person who was following me was a fellah from the neighborhood watch thinking i was looking suspicious and decide to confront me. And lets say my natural reaction was to meet confrontation with confrontation, and this man pull out a gun and end me off, you would say is because i had "the wrong reaction"? Should i have engaged him in dialogue??
Come on nuh man....
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Geraldo has a point -we have to cater to our environment as far as fashion and manner - that's the reality if you accept that the world is bigger than one person.... but IN NO WAY can anyone say that the kid's attire is partly to blame for getting shot!! That's a separate point.
There is no good excuse for shooting this kid -full stop!
Them damn girls who getting rape needs to stop wearing cycle shorts and tank top.
Ent! Doh get me started on that...being attracted to (or even tempted by) a woman because of her attire is one thing.... (Violently) forcing yuhself on a woman is completely separate thing.
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Good post Dinho, absolutely senseless and there is no justification for Z's actions. TBH, don't wish nothing on the guilty man but he will not last, can't see it happening, in the "free" world or behind bars
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This fackin thing catching on like wild fire yes! even the president weighed in on the matter.
all day today the subject of travon's death was served up on many talk radio shows. i heard from low profile legal experts to attorney alton maddox. maddox was an absolute wonder to to listen too, he was on the caldwell chronicles, a radio program that comes on @ 4pm on fridays on WBAI NY 99.5 fm.
maddox was ah class act as always, examining every aspect of the scenario while using the law to guide things into proper prospective. how de hell they ever ban this man from practicing law ? is beyond me.
geraldo went and put his dotish cuban foot in his mouth ....again! he said that martain was wearing ah hoddie and was fleeing.......or something to that effect .....was worthy of zimmerman's action.
today was ah good day to listen to the radio, ah even catch ah trini lawyer talking bout the subject on a westindian internet show called "straight talk no chaser" even that lawyer fella make geraldo look like ah total c@nt!
i eh lying maddox was the best of the lot today, and the only person who came close was this trini attorney. i eh lying, this fella going places, he have ah long way before he reaches alton maddox, but the fella smooth as silk, very articulate and smart, plus he don't have this big ole trini accent like most of us who likes tuh beat the westindian drum tuh let everyone know that he's ah caribbean man. my lawyer comes to mind in this situation, ah fella name "brian figeroux", damn good and knowledgeable lawyer, but he is engrained with this trini accent and identity,
however, this yute from trini iz the total opposite, he's smart, soft spoken and slick as hell, he not over speculative, seems to know the law well and his interpretation of the situation under the law was precise, and the fella eh getting carried away with being trini, he dropping it american style, just the way it should be.
ah hope this zimmerman fella gets his wild arse handed to him, let arseholes like rabbit and "GERADLO" eat their fackin hearts out! this bastard @ least wiil face ah jury, and even if he gets time, like maddox and this trini bredder say, he maybe tried under federal law. yeh ..... "club fed" comes to mind. :pissedoff:
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This fackin thing catching on like wild fire yes! even the president weighed in on the matter.
all day today the subject of travon's death was served up on many talk radio shows. i heard from low profile legal experts to attorney alton maddox. maddox was an absolute wonder to to listen too, he was on the caldwell chronicles, a radio program that comes on @ 4pm on fridays on WBAI NY 99.5 fm.
maddox was ah class act as always, examining every aspect of the scenario while using the law to guide things into proper prospective. how de hell they ever ban this man from practicing law ? is beyond me.
geraldo went and put his dotish cuban foot in his mouth ....again! he said that martain was wearing ah hoddie and was fleeing.......or something to that effect .....was worthy of zimmerman's action.
today was ah good day to listen to the radio, ah even catch ah trini lawyer talking bout the subject on a westindian internet show called "straight talk no chaser" even that lawyer fella make geraldo look like ah total c@nt!
i eh lying maddox was the best of the lot today, and the only person who came close was this trini attorney. i eh lying, this fella going places, he have ah long way before he reaches alton maddox, but the fella smooth as silk, very articulate and smart, plus he don't have this big ole trini accent like most of us who likes tuh beat the westindian drum tuh let everyone know that he's ah caribbean man. my lawyer comes to mind in this situation, ah fella name "brian figeroux", damn good and knowledgeable lawyer, but he is engrained with this trini accent and identity,
however, this yute from trini iz the total opposite, he's smart, soft spoken and slick as hell, he not over speculative, seems to know the law well and his interpretation of the situation under the law was precise, and the fella eh getting carried away with being trini, he dropping it american style, just the way it should be.
ah hope this zimmerman fella gets his wild arse handed to him, let arseholes like rabbit and "GERADLO" eat their fackin hearts out! this bastard @ least wiil face ah jury, and even if he gets time, like maddox and this trini bredder say, he maybe tried under federal law. yeh ..... "club fed" comes to mind. :pissedoff:
yuh know that trini lawyer was none other than we own poster. Bake and Shark right?
Yuh f**ker, yuh nemesis..Bakes in yuh pweffen.
yeah ah agree with yuh doh. Geraldo talk ah pack ah assholery. Maddox was real good too.
Yuh know something just cool when yuh take yuh time yuh does sound good, except when yuh talking f**kery about Islam being a religion ah peace etc...odderwise sometimes yuh does surprise me.
Bakes was really good on that radio show, dais what ah was trying to tell allyuh yesterday.
Fuh ah legal stenographer he knowledgeable and articulate. Is like eh went Trinity College and then Princeton.
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I want to hear what bakes say!!! :)
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Bakes was masterful, professional...for ah stenographer he real know de law
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Bakes post ah transcript nah?
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This fackin thing catching on like wild fire yes! even the president weighed in on the matter.
all day today the subject of travon's death was served up on many talk radio shows. i heard from low profile legal experts to attorney alton maddox. maddox was an absolute wonder to to listen too, he was on the caldwell chronicles, a radio program that comes on @ 4pm on fridays on WBAI NY 99.5 fm.
maddox was ah class act as always, examining every aspect of the scenario while using the law to guide things into proper prospective. how de hell they ever ban this man from practicing law ? is beyond me.
geraldo went and put his dotish cuban foot in his mouth ....again! he said that martain was wearing ah hoddie and was fleeing.......or something to that effect .....was worthy of zimmerman's action.
today was ah good day to listen to the radio, ah even catch ah trini lawyer talking bout the subject on a westindian internet show called "straight talk no chaser" even that lawyer fella make geraldo look like ah total c@nt!
i eh lying maddox was the best of the lot today, and the only person who came close was this trini attorney. i eh lying, this fella going places, he have ah long way before he reaches alton maddox, but the fella smooth as silk, very articulate and smart, plus he don't have this big ole trini accent like most of us who likes tuh beat the westindian drum tuh let everyone know that he's ah caribbean man. my lawyer comes to mind in this situation, ah fella name "brian figeroux", damn good and knowledgeable lawyer, but he is engrained with this trini accent and identity,
however, this yute from trini iz the total opposite, he's smart, soft spoken and slick as hell, he not over speculative, seems to know the law well and his interpretation of the situation under the law was precise, and the fella eh getting carried away with being trini, he dropping it american style, just the way it should be.
ah hope this zimmerman fella gets his wild arse handed to him, let arseholes like rabbit and "GERADLO" eat their fackin hearts out! this bastard @ least wiil face ah jury, and even if he gets time, like maddox and this trini bredder say, he maybe tried under federal law. yeh ..... "club fed" comes to mind. :pissedoff:
yuh know that trini lawyer was none other than we own poster. Bake and Shark right?
Yuh f**ker, yuh nemesis..Bakes in yuh pweffen.
yeah ah agree with yuh doh. Geraldo talk ah pack ah assholery. Maddox was real good too.
Yuh know something just cool when yuh take yuh time yuh does sound good, except when yuh talking f**kery about Islam being a religion ah peace etc...odderwise sometimes yuh does surprise me.
Bakes was really good on that radio show, dais what ah was trying to tell allyuh yesterday.
Fuh ah legal stenographer he knowledgeable and articulate. Is like eh went Trinity College and then Princeton.
True trini, how yuh know we talking bout the same show? the fella who i talking bout last name is scott, and he sound like ah french creole or ah young high society yuteman, you could never convince me that the yute is bakes, no way! that fellas was mild mannered and soft spoken, and bakes is ah hulligan who want tuh fight and cuss ppl stink.
if that yuteman is bake and shark, then i willing to eat my pajamas, just bring the proof and i bringing the condiments. you can't chain me up wid dat, hell no! ah hear allyuh saying how bakes is ah lawyer and that eh hard to believe, but the yuteman whom i heard today is such ah chill mild mannered bredder, that ruffian bakes definitely woulda never come to mind, never!
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This fackin thing catching on like wild fire yes! even the president weighed in on the matter.
all day today the subject of travon's death was served up on many talk radio shows. i heard from low profile legal experts to attorney alton maddox. maddox was an absolute wonder to to listen too, he was on the caldwell chronicles, a radio program that comes on @ 4pm on fridays on WBAI NY 99.5 fm.
maddox was ah class act as always, examining every aspect of the scenario while using the law to guide things into proper prospective. how de hell they ever ban this man from practicing law ? is beyond me.
geraldo went and put his dotish cuban foot in his mouth ....again! he said that martain was wearing ah hoddie and was fleeing.......or something to that effect .....was worthy of zimmerman's action.
today was ah good day to listen to the radio, ah even catch ah trini lawyer talking bout the subject on a westindian internet show called "straight talk no chaser" even that lawyer fella make geraldo look like ah total c@nt!
i eh lying maddox was the best of the lot today, and the only person who came close was this trini attorney. i eh lying, this fella going places, he have ah long way before he reaches alton maddox,
Ease up on de yute man... sometimes yuh does have tuh pull bull as court stenographer and thing before yuh reach Alton Maddox heights :D
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Saw President Obama weighing in on tv. Have to ask though.. will this be the norm now for any kid/person killed under questionable circumstances? (hate crime?)
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This fackin thing catching on like wild fire yes! even the president weighed in on the matter.
.
.
.
however, this yute from trini iz the total opposite, he's smart, soft spoken and slick as hell, he not over speculative, seems to know the law well and his interpretation of the situation under the law was precise
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.
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JC, look ting, you and I are on the same page with this Trini. I heard the interview and it was very insightful. BTW, you better start looking for a wine to pair with yuh pajamas. ;D
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This fackin thing catching on like wild fire yes! even the president weighed in on the matter.
all day today the subject of travon's death was served up on many talk radio shows. i heard from low profile legal experts to attorney alton maddox. maddox was an absolute wonder to to listen too, he was on the caldwell chronicles, a radio program that comes on @ 4pm on fridays on WBAI NY 99.5 fm.
maddox was ah class act as always, examining every aspect of the scenario while using the law to guide things into proper prospective. how de hell they ever ban this man from practicing law ? is beyond me.
geraldo went and put his dotish cuban foot in his mouth ....again! he said that martain was wearing ah hoddie and was fleeing.......or something to that effect .....was worthy of zimmerman's action.
today was ah good day to listen to the radio, ah even catch ah trini lawyer talking bout the subject on a westindian internet show called "straight talk no chaser" even that lawyer fella make geraldo look like ah total c@nt!
i eh lying maddox was the best of the lot today, and the only person who came close was this trini attorney. i eh lying, this fella going places, he have ah long way before he reaches alton maddox, but the fella smooth as silk, very articulate and smart, plus he don't have this big ole trini accent like most of us who likes tuh beat the westindian drum tuh let everyone know that he's ah caribbean man. my lawyer comes to mind in this situation, ah fella name "brian figeroux", damn good and knowledgeable lawyer, but he is engrained with this trini accent and identity,
however, this yute from trini iz the total opposite, he's smart, soft spoken and slick as hell, he not over speculative, seems to know the law well and his interpretation of the situation under the law was precise, and the fella eh getting carried away with being trini, he dropping it american style, just the way it should be.
ah hope this zimmerman fella gets his wild arse handed to him, let arseholes like rabbit and "GERADLO" eat their fackin hearts out! this bastard @ least wiil face ah jury, and even if he gets time, like maddox and this trini bredder say, he maybe tried under federal law. yeh ..... "club fed" comes to mind. :pissedoff:
yuh know that trini lawyer was none other than we own poster. Bake and Shark right?
Yuh f**ker, yuh nemesis..Bakes in yuh pweffen.
yeah ah agree with yuh doh. Geraldo talk ah pack ah assholery. Maddox was real good too.
Yuh know something just cool when yuh take yuh time yuh does sound good, except when yuh talking f**kery about Islam being a religion ah peace etc...odderwise sometimes yuh does surprise me.
Bakes was really good on that radio show, dais what ah was trying to tell allyuh yesterday.
Fuh ah legal stenographer he knowledgeable and articulate. Is like eh went Trinity College and then Princeton.
True trini, how yuh know we talking bout the same show? the fella who i talking bout last name is scott, and he sound like ah french creole or ah young high society yuteman, you could never convince me that the yute is bakes, no way! that fellas was mild mannered and soft spoken, and bakes is ah hulligan who want tuh fight and cuss ppl stink.
if that yuteman is bake and shark, then i willing to eat my pajamas, just bring the proof and i bringing the condiments. you can't chain me up wid dat, hell no! ah hear allyuh saying how bakes is ah lawyer and that eh hard to believe, but the yuteman whom i heard today is such ah chill mild mannered bredder, that ruffian bakes definitely woulda never come to mind, never!
Lol It was Bakes. This rel funny.
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Saw President Obama weighing in on tv. Have to ask though.. will this be the norm now for any kid/person killed under questionable circumstances? (hate crime?)
Obama Speaks Out on Trayvon Martin: A Personal Appeal with Political Risk
“If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon,” President Obama said Friday, March 23, regarding the recent killing of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager who was shot last month in Florida by a neighborhood-watch volunteer who has not been charged with a crime. “I think [Martin's parents] are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and we will get to the bottom of exactly what happened.”
In a flash, by answering an unplanned question shouted during an unrelated event, Obama had erased the careful distance from the case that his aides have maintained for days. “Our thoughts and prayers go out to Trayvon Martin’s family,” White House spokesman Jay Carney said on March 19. “But obviously, we’re not going to wade into a local law-enforcement matter. I would refer you to the Justice Department and local law enforcement at this point.”
Obama’s press handlers have discouraged the President from getting involved in local issues. It took them weeks to deal with the fallout from his comments on Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates’ run-in with local law enforcement in 2009. In 2010, Obama’s comments supporting the concept of an Islamic center in lower Manhattan undercut weeks of Democratic messaging on the economy before the midterm elections.
But on Friday, Obama did it again, deliberately. The Martin case has laid bare racial tensions nationwide. And in speaking out, the President was taking real political risk.
Racial suspicion and bigotry are likely to play at least as big a role in the 2012 election as they did in 2008, when Obama generally tried to avoid any rhetorical or policy actions that could be portrayed by his opponents as favoring one group over another. This was exactly the hornet’s nest that Obama kicked in 2009 when he said Cambridge, Mass., police had “acted stupidly” in arresting Gates.
Read more (http://swampland.time.com/2012/03/23/obama-speaks-out-on-trayvon-martin-a-personal-appeal-with-political-risk/?xid=thepage_newsletter#ixzz1q3Kl0cCp)
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(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll314/Chunkycj/541571_334716943242187_175913989122484_828020_2106179896_n.jpg)
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/opinion/floridas-disastrous-self-defense-law.html# (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/24/opinion/floridas-disastrous-self-defense-law.html#)
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HuffPost Social ReadingGeraldo Rivera: Trayvon Martin's 'Hoodie Is As Much Responsible For [His] Death As George Zimmerman' (VIDEO)
Geraldo Rivera provoked outrage on Friday when he said that slain teenager Trayvon Martin was partially responsible for his death because he was wearing a hoodie. The Fox News host later revealed that even his own son was dismayed by the comments.
Speaking on Friday's "Fox and Friends," Rivera said, ""I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death as George Zimmerman was."
Martin was unarmed when he was shot dead by a self-appointed neighborhood watch volunteer named George Zimmerman in late February. His death has become a national tragedy, fueled by the police's controversial handling of the case.
After making his original comments about Martin's hoodie on Friday morning, Rivera weighed in again in a series of tweets. He revealed that one of his sons disagreed with his stance. "My own son just wrote to say he's ashamed of my position re hoodies," he tweeted. Rivera also told Politico that his son, Gabriel, "broke [his] heart" and had said that he had "gone viral for all the wrong reasons."
However, he maintained that Martin's hoodie was to blame for his death. He denied that he was "blaming the victim" and called it "common sense" for minorities to avoid wearing hoodies. He said that he was "reminding minority parents of the risk that comes with being a kid of color in America."
Rivera made his original comments to Brian Kilmeade, Steve Doocy and guest host Juliet Huddy. He said that he believed George Zimmerman should be "investigated to the fullest extent of the law" and "prosecuted" if criminally liable, but blamed Martin's parents for letting him go outside wearing a hoodie.
"But I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies," Rivera insisted.
When asked to clarify his remarks, Rivera said that he cautioned his own son against wearing hoodies. He explained, "When you, when you see a kid walking — Juliet — when you see a kid walking down the street, particularly a dark skinned kid like my son Cruz, who I constantly yelled at when he was going out wearing a damn hoodie or those pants around his ankles. Take that hood off, people look at you and they — what do they think? What’s the instant identification, what’s the instant association?"
"Uh-oh," remarked Doocy, who nodded in agreement.
Rivera argued that avoiding certain types of attire was a necessary deterrent against racial profiling. "It’s those crime scene surveillance tapes. Every time you see someone sticking up a 7-11, the kid is wearing a hoodie," Rivera said. "You have to recognize that this whole stylizing yourself as a gangster, you're gonna be a gangster wannabe? Well, people are gonna perceive you as a menace."
He stressed that Martin was an "innocent" and "wonderful" kid who "didn't deserve to die." However, he reiterated, "I'll bet you money, if he didn't have that hoodie on, that nutty neighborhood watch guy wouldn't have responded in that violent and aggressive way."
Rivera prefaced his "Fox and Friends" appearance with similar comments on Twitter on Thursday night. He had tweeted, "His hoodie killed Trayvon Martin as surely as George Zimmerman," and "I'm trying to save lives like Trayvon's-Parents Alert: hoodies can get your kid killed."
Moments before he died, Martin was on the phone with his girlfriend. She recalled him saying that he put his hoodie up because Zimmerman had been following him.
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Trayvon Martin, my son, and the Black Male Code
(http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-son-black-male-code-135710728.html)
PHILADELPHIA (AP) — I thought my son would be much older before I had to tell him about the Black Male Code. He's only 12, still sleeping with stuffed animals, still afraid of the dark. But after the Trayvon Martin tragedy, I needed to explain to my child that soon people might be afraid of him.
We were in the car on the way to school when a story about Martin came on the radio. "The guy who killed him should get arrested. The dead guy was unarmed!" my son said after hearing that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman had claimed self-defense in the shooting in Sanford, Fla.
We listened to the rest of the story, describing how Zimmerman had spotted Martin, who was 17, walking home from the store on a rainy night, the hood of his sweatshirt pulled over his head. When it was over, I turned off the radio and told my son about the rules he needs to follow to avoid becoming another Trayvon Martin — a black male who Zimmerman assumed was "suspicious" and "up to no good."
As I explained it, the Code goes like this:
Always pay close attention to your surroundings, son, especially if you are in an affluent neighborhood where black folks are few. Understand that even though you are not a criminal, some people might assume you are, especially if you are wearing certain clothes.
Never argue with police, but protect your dignity and take pride in humility. When confronted by someone with a badge or a gun, do not flee, fight, or put your hands anywhere other than up.
Please don't assume, son, that all white people view you as a threat. America is better than that. Suspicion and bitterness can imprison you. But as a black male, you must go above and beyond to show strangers what type of person you really are.
I was far from alone in laying out these instructions. Across the country this week, parents were talking to their children, especially their black sons, about the Code. It's a talk the black community has passed down for generations, an evolving oral tradition from the days when an errant remark could easily cost black people their job, their freedom, or sometimes their life.
After Trayvon Martin was killed, Al Dotson Jr., a lawyer in Miami and chairman of the 100 Black Men of America organization, told his 14-year-old son that he should always be aware of his surroundings, and of the fact that people might view him differently "because he's blessed to be an African-American."
"It requires a sixth sense that not everyone needs to have," Dotson said.
Dotson, 51, remembers receiving his own instructions as a youth, and hearing those instructions evolve over time.
His grandparents told Dotson that when dealing with authority figures, make it clear you are no threat at all — an attitude verging on submissive. Later, Dotson's parents told him to respond with respect and not be combative.
Today, Dotson tells his children that they should always be respectful, but should not tolerate being disrespected — which would have been recklessly bold in his grandparents' era.
Yet Dotson still has fears about the safety of his children, "about them understanding who they are and where they are, and how to respond to the environment they are in."
Bill Stephney, a media executive who lives in a New Jersey suburb that is mostly white and Asian, has two sons, ages 18 and 13. The Martin killing was an opportunity for him to repeat a longtime lesson: Black men can get singled out, "so please conduct yourself accordingly."
Like Dotson, Stephney mentioned an ultra-awareness — "a racial Spidey sense, a tingling" — that his sons should heed when stereotyping might place them in danger.
One night in the early 1980s, while a student at Adelphi University on Long Island, Stephney and about a dozen other hip-hop aficionados went to White Castle after their late-night DJ gig. They were gathered in the parking lot, eating and talking, when a squadron of police cars swooped in and a helicopter rumbled overhead.
"We got a report that a riot was going on," police told them.
Stephney and his crew used to talk late into the night about how black men in New York were besieged by violence — graffiti artist Michael Stewart's death after a rough arrest in 1983; Bernhard Goetz shooting four young black men who allegedly tried to mug him on the subway in 1984; Michael Griffith killed by a car while being chased by a white mob in 1986; the crack epidemic that rained black-on-black violence on the city. They felt under attack, as if society considered them the enemy.
This is how the legendary rap group Public Enemy was born. Their logo: A young black man in the crosshairs of a gun sight.
"Fast forward 25 years later," Stephney said. "We've come a long way to get nowhere."
But what about that long road traveled, which took a black man all the way to the White House? I can hear some of my white friends now: What evidence is there that Trayvon Martin caught George Zimmerman's attention — and his bullet — because of his race? Lynching is a relic of the past, so why are you teaching your son to be so paranoid?
There is a difference between paranoia and protection. Much evidence shows that black males face unique risks: Psychological studies indicate they are often perceived as threatening; here in Philadelphia, police stop-and-frisk tactics overwhelmingly target African-Americans, according to a lawsuit settled by the city; research suggests that people are more likely to believe a poorly seen object is a gun if it's held by a black person.
Yes, it was way back in 1955 when 14-year-old Emmitt Till was murdered in Mississippi for flirting with a white woman. But it was last Wednesday when a white Mississippi teenager pleaded guilty to murder for seeking out a black victim, coming across a man named James Craig Anderson, and running him over with his pickup truck.
Faced with this information, I'm doing what any responsible parent would do: Teaching my son how to protect himself.
Still, it requires a delicate balance. Steve Bumbaugh, a foundation director in Los Angeles, encourages his 8- and 5-year-old sons to talk to police officers, "and to otherwise develop a good relationship with the people and institutions that have the potential to give them trouble. I think this is the best defense."
"I don't want them to actually think that they are viewed suspiciously or treated differently," Bumbaugh said. "I think that realization breeds resentment and anger. And that can contribute to dangerous situations."
His sons are large for their age, however.
"I'm probably naive to think that they won't realize they're viewed differently when they're 6-4 and 200 pounds," Bumbaugh said, "but I'm going to try anyway."
I am 6-4 and more than 200 pounds, son. You probably will be too. Depending on how we dress, act and speak, people might make negative assumptions about us. That doesn't mean they must be racist; it means they must be human.
Let me tell you a story, son, about a time when I forgot about the Black Male Code.
One morning I left our car at the shop for repairs. I was walking home through our quiet suburban neighborhood, in a cold drizzle, wearing an all-black sweatsuit with the hood pulled over my head.
From two blocks away, I saw your mother pull out of our driveway and roll towards me. When she stopped next to me and rolled down the window, her brown face was full of laughter.
"When I saw you from up the street," your mother told me, "I said to myself, what is that guy doing in our neighborhood?"
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ribbit...ah know yuh feel this article yuh post does plenty to reinforce yuh foolish, geraldo-esque opinion eh. But it doesn't jed. It doesn't at all so keep readin' it. And weep.
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ribbit...ah know yuh feel this article yuh post does plenty to reinforce yuh foolish, geraldo-esque opinion eh. But it doesn't jed. It doesn't at all so keep readin' it. And weep.
MC, ah hear dey have a bounty of $10K for zimmerman. good luck wit dat.
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I watched the most recent episode of "The Good Wife" last night.
One sub-plot was a white policeman shooting a black man.
Guess what the policeman name was ......
Answer: Zimmerman.
Go figure.
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ribbit...ah know yuh feel this article yuh post does plenty to reinforce yuh foolish, geraldo-esque opinion eh. But it doesn't jed. It doesn't at all so keep readin' it. And weep.
ribbit is now trying to pass blame on Trayvon's parents for not teaching him that in 2012 he can walk where he wants, talk how he wants and drink ice tea in the USA.
Even if the twats suppositions were true, dung beetle is ignoring the FCAT that this CHILD was walking, minding his own business in a NEIGHBOR where he had every right to be....he was walking HOME! To his father;s place.
ANd what compounds this f**keries is that he lay in a morgue for about 24 hours before anyone even thought to check and see if he was supposed to be in that hood.
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ribbit...ah know yuh feel this article yuh post does plenty to reinforce yuh foolish, geraldo-esque opinion eh. But it doesn't jed. It doesn't at all so keep readin' it. And weep.
MC, ah hear dey have a bounty of $10K for zimmerman. good luck wit dat.
Yuh know hummuch skittles and iced tea dat could buy?! (especially d Arizona Iced tea in d tin fuh 99 cents....I prefer the "Sweet Tea" meh self). >:( (dam imps!)
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ribbit...ah know yuh feel this article yuh post does plenty to reinforce yuh foolish, geraldo-esque opinion eh. But it doesn't jed. It doesn't at all so keep readin' it. And weep.
ribbit is now trying to pass blame on Trayvon's parents for not teaching him that in 2012 he can walk where he wants, talk how he wants and drink ice tea in the USA.
Even if the twats suppositions were true, dung beetle is ignoring the FCAT that this CHILD was walking, minding his own business in a NEIGHBOR where he had every right to be....he was walking HOME! To his father;s place.
ANd what compounds this f**keries is that he lay in a morgue for about 24 hours before anyone even thought to check and see if he was supposed to be in that hood.
People like ribbit is d ones does turn to dey wife and proclaim "Honey, racism and racial profiling is dead now" because Obama win an election.
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ribbit...ah know yuh feel this article yuh post does plenty to reinforce yuh foolish, geraldo-esque opinion eh. But it doesn't jed. It doesn't at all so keep readin' it. And weep.
ribbit is now trying to pass blame on Trayvon's parents for not teaching him that in 2012 he can walk where he wants, talk how he wants and drink ice tea in the USA.
Even if the twats suppositions were true, dung beetle is ignoring the FCAT that this CHILD was walking, minding his own business in a NEIGHBOR where he had every right to be....he was walking HOME! To his father;s place.
ANd what compounds this f**keries is that he lay in a morgue for about 24 hours before anyone even thought to check and see if he was supposed to be in that hood.
People like ribbit is d ones does turn to dey wife and proclaim "Honey, racism and racial profiling is dead now" because Obama win an election.
ribbit cyar have no damn wife.
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ribbit...ah know yuh feel this article yuh post does plenty to reinforce yuh foolish, geraldo-esque opinion eh. But it doesn't jed. It doesn't at all so keep readin' it. And weep.
ribbit is now trying to pass blame on Trayvon's parents for not teaching him that in 2012 he can walk where he wants, talk how he wants and drink ice tea in the USA.
Even if the twats suppositions were true, dung beetle is ignoring the FCAT that this CHILD was walking, minding his own business in a NEIGHBOR where he had every right to be....he was walking HOME! To his father;s place.
ANd what compounds this f**keries is that he lay in a morgue for about 24 hours before anyone even thought to check and see if he was supposed to be in that hood.
tt, mc, it is a tragedy that fools like zimmerman, who want to play soldier, get to arm themselves. according to his account, martin reach for de weapon and then this ting, which in any civilized place would have been limited to a beatdown, turn into a death. it seem like allyuh glossing over de insane gun laws allyuh have and only studying whether zims is a racist.
when al and jesse start to chirp and lebron and dwayne wade tweet pics in hoodies allyuh lose yuh focus and jump on de wagon. like mrs. martin say "this is not a black-white issue". she is absolutely right! de martins couldn't care less whether zimmerman have he racism card stamp, the issue is why trayvon martin is dead. al and jesse have allyuh train REAL good.
so wear yuh hoodies and drink yuh iced tea and shove skittles in allyuh bamsee. that distracts from the real issue. yuh want things like dey was in de wild west. form yuh posse and chase that 10G.
btw: ah posted a few months back for socafan a reference that explain in detail why the black code is a sad but necessary reality but like he get lost on de way to barnes and noble. ah guess it easier to turn on de tv and listen to al and jesse tell allyuh what to think.
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ribbit...ah know yuh feel this article yuh post does plenty to reinforce yuh foolish, geraldo-esque opinion eh. But it doesn't jed. It doesn't at all so keep readin' it. And weep.
ribbit is now trying to pass blame on Trayvon's parents for not teaching him that in 2012 he can walk where he wants, talk how he wants and drink ice tea in the USA.
Even if the twats suppositions were true, dung beetle is ignoring the FCAT that this CHILD was walking, minding his own business in a NEIGHBOR where he had every right to be....he was walking HOME! To his father;s place.
ANd what compounds this f**keries is that he lay in a morgue for about 24 hours before anyone even thought to check and see if he was supposed to be in that hood.
tt, mc, it is a tragedy that fools like zimmerman, who want to play soldier, get to arm themselves. according to his account, martin reach for de weapon and then this ting, which in any civilized place would have been limited to a beatdown, turn into a death. it seem like allyuh glossing over de insane gun laws allyuh have and only studying whether zims is a racist.
when al and jesse start to chirp and lebron and dwayne wade tweet pics in hoodies allyuh lose yuh focus and jump on de wagon. like mrs. martin say "this is not a black-white issue". she is absolutely right! de martins couldn't care less whether zimmerman have he racism card stamp, the issue is why trayvon martin is dead. al and jesse have allyuh train REAL good.
so wear yuh hoodies and drink yuh iced tea and shove skittles in allyuh bamsee. that distracts from the real issue. yuh want things like dey was in de wild west. form yuh posse and chase that 10G.
btw: ah posted a few months back for socafan a reference that explain in detail why the black code is a sad but necessary reality but like he get lost on de way to barnes and noble. ah guess it easier to turn on de tv and listen to al and jesse tell allyuh what to think.
:applause:
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What is "our insane gun laws?"
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Daily show have the best writers oui
dem actually manage to take this hot button tragedy and still make it funny
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(http://www.truthdig.com/images/eartothegrounduploads/TheHoodie-500.jpg)
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What is "our insane gun laws?"
do you own one? you shouldn't. There's pork, beef, chicken, turkey, lamb and an assortment of other meats in the local grocery store.
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http://www.youtube.com/v/rH5bB8HUWFs&feature=player_embedded
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What is "our insane gun laws?"
do you own one? you shouldn't. There's pork, beef, chicken, turkey, lamb and an assortment of other meats in the local grocery store.
So what are the "insane gun laws"... either state them or shut yuh ass.
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What is "our insane gun laws?"
do you own one? you shouldn't. There's pork, beef, chicken, turkey, lamb and an assortment of other meats in the local grocery store.
So what are the "insane gun laws"... either state them or shut yuh ass.
yuh go choke
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What is "our insane gun laws?"
do you own one? you shouldn't. There's pork, beef, chicken, turkey, lamb and an assortment of other meats in the local grocery store.
Using your logic and implementing your rationale, I should sell my fishing rods and give up on fishing since I could easily buy fish at the supermarket, right? What's insane about the gun laws?
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yuh go choke
Clearly you are confused... I'm not the one with my head up my ass. Now articulate if you can, what those insane laws you cosigned on about... or is it that you only talk when Ribbit is moving your lips?
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What is "our insane gun laws?"
do you own one? you shouldn't. There's pork, beef, chicken, turkey, lamb and an assortment of other meats in the local grocery store.
Using your logic and implementing your rationale, I should sell my fishing rods and give up on fishing since I could easily buy fish at the supermarket, right? What's insane about the gun laws?
when was the last time a fishing rod killed anyone? guns are in the wrong hands in the US - legally! That right there is a problem. If that fool was "armed" with a fishing rod, the young man would still be alive today.
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when was the last time a fishing rod killed anyone? guns are in the wrong hands in the US - legally! That right there is a problem.
http://www.youtube.com/v/v3T37wlHEgw
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What is "our insane gun laws?"
they doh work. the proof is right there in your headlines. maybe back in the day, the cost/benefit for guns made more sense. technology change that. however, dey have a committed segment of americans that want to live in de past so things doh change.
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What is "our insane gun laws?"
do you own one? you shouldn't. There's pork, beef, chicken, turkey, lamb and an assortment of other meats in the local grocery store.
Using your logic and implementing your rationale, I should sell my fishing rods and give up on fishing since I could easily buy fish at the supermarket, right? What's insane about the gun laws?
when was the last time a fishing rod killed anyone? guns are in the wrong hands in the US - legally! That right there is a problem. If that fool was "armed" with a fishing rod, the young man would still be alive today.
Fact: Fishing is the most lethal sport in the US, more deaths occur from fishing than any sport in the us, and yes some deaths occur from misuse of fishing poles. If Zimmerman had a detachable fishing rod he could have used it to puncture any part of the kid's body.
I'm not here to discuss a hypothetical, I know in given situations if you substitute a "gun" with: a knife, baseball bat, hammer, length of pipe, rolling pin, brick etc, you can do harm to someone.
Have you ever applied for a hand gun in your state?
What really amazes me is that Ribbit used this kid's death as an opportunity to slime America and Americans, eg: "In canada we discuss and work stuff out, american gun laws are wrong, dumb american kid, should not have pulled his hoodie over his head... etc oh canada.... is so much better." Having traveled a lot, I'm still haven't heard anyone say, "I want to live the canadian dream!"
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What is "our insane gun laws?"
they doh work. the proof is right there in your headlines. maybe back in the day, the cost/benefit for guns made more sense. technology change that. however, dey have a committed segment of americans that want to live in de past so things doh change.
They Don't Work? In 2008 the SOCTUS, struck down a ban on handgun ownership in the District of Columbia, amid fears by the ban supporters that death by gun violence would increase, it did not! In fact crime as reported my Chief of Police Cathy Lanier, went down (as of 2012), especially the number of home invasions. In 2010 neighboring Prince Georges County recorded 11 murders into 11 days in the new year, the 12 murder was a home owner killing an intruder... The police got there in 14 mins...! He killed the thief in seconds!
Who is this "committed segment of Americans? Last check I got from the FBI data base was that "registered democratic women" made up 40% of the new purchases of guns for 2010/2011/2012...! Are you against liberal women owing guns.... are you anti-woman?
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What is "our insane gun laws?"
they doh work. the proof is right there in your headlines. maybe back in the day, the cost/benefit for guns made more sense. technology change that. however, dey have a committed segment of americans that want to live in de past so things doh change.
They Don't Work? In 2008 the SOCTUS, struck down a ban on handgun ownership in the District of Columbia, amid fears by the ban supporters that death by gun violence would increase, it did not! In fact crime as reported my Chief of Police Cathy Lanier, went down (as of 2012), especially the number of home invasions. In 2010 neighboring Prince Georges County recorded 11 murders into 11 days in the new year, the 12 murder was a home owner killing and intruder... The police got there in 14 mins...! He killed the thief in seconds!
Who is this "committed segment of Americans? Last check I got from the FBI data base was that "registered democratic women" made up 40% of the new purchases of guns for 2010/2011/2012...!
please include in your analysis gun deaths/accidents when junior find daddy/mommy's handgun.
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What is "our insane gun laws?"
they doh work. the proof is right there in your headlines. maybe back in the day, the cost/benefit for guns made more sense. technology change that. however, dey have a committed segment of americans that want to live in de past so things doh change.
They Don't Work? In 2008 the SOCTUS, struck down a ban on handgun ownership in the District of Columbia, amid fears by the ban supporters that death by gun violence would increase, it did not! In fact crime as reported my Chief of Police Cathy Lanier, went down (as of 2012), especially the number of home invasions. In 2010 neighboring Prince Georges County recorded 11 murders into 11 days in the new year, the 12 murder was a home owner killing and intruder... The police got there in 14 mins...! He killed the thief in seconds!
Who is this "committed segment of Americans? Last check I got from the FBI data base was that "registered democratic women" made up 40% of the new purchases of guns for 2010/2011/2012...!
please include in your analysis gun deaths/accidents when junior find daddy/mommy's handgun.
Fool did Zimmerman find daddy or mommy's gun? Yes as a country we have more gun deaths than most countries but weighed against other countries were private guns are used to prevent certain types of crime, is a whole different story...!
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Time for them to get a new lawyer
http://www.youtube.com/v/gILm7IAl36o
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ANFORD, Florida (Reuters) - The man who shot and killed an unarmed Florida teenager in a case that has sparked widespread public outrage told police the victim had punched him, knocked him down and slammed his head into the pavement repeatedly before he fired the fatal gunshot.
The account of neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, was published for the first time on Monday in the online edition of the Orlando Sentinel.
Police in Sanford, Florida, the Orlando suburb where 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot dead on February 26, confirmed that the newspaper report appeared to be based on leaked information from someone inside the police department.
"The information in the article is consistent with the information provided to the State Attorney's office by the police department," the police said in a statement.
Zimmerman, a 28-year-old white Hispanic, has been widely criticized for following Martin, who was African American, and ignoring a police request that he stop doing so after calling the 911 emergency number to report that the young man in a "hoodie" hooded sweatshirt looked to be "up to no good."
But in own his version of events, as outlined in the Sentinel report, Zimmerman had given up the chase and was walking back to his sport utility vehicle when Martin approached him from behind.
The two exchanged words before Martin punched the burly Zimmerman in the nose, sending him reeling to the ground. The teenager then began pummeling him and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, the newspaper said.
At least one witness told police he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman who was calling for help, the newspaper said. It noted, however, that other witnesses had disputed from whom the cries were coming.
ABC News quoted a police source as saying that Zimmerman, in a written statement, claimed that Martin also tried to take his gun before the shot was fired.
Zimmerman's attorney has said his client acted in self-defense. He has not been arrested and Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, which broadened the legal definition of self-defense when it was passed in 2005, provides people with immunity from detention or arrest if they use deadly force in their own defense without clear evidence of malice.
MARTIN'S REPUTATION IN SPOTLIGHT
Whatever happened on that rainy evening in Sanford it came as Martin returned from a convenience store carrying a bag of Skittles candy and a can of Arizona iced tea.
Florida law enforcement has been under fire for weeks as protests decrying inaction in the case have spread to cities across the country.
More than 2 million people have signed an online petition calling for justice in the case, prompting Florida Governor Rick Scott on Monday to caution against a rush to judgment and say state authorities were still gathering facts.
"Justice will prevail," Scott said in an interview with Reuters Insider in New York. "That's what we all want. We want the ... facts and we want to know that justice happens."
(Video: http://r.reuters.com/par37s )
Last Thursday, Scott said State Attorney Norman Wolfinger had agreed to remove himself from the investigation. Scott appointed another Florida prosecutor, Angela Corey, to handle the case. He also created a task force to study crime prevention and specifically the state's Stand Your Ground law.
Asked if the case rose to the level of a possible hate crime, Scott said such a judgment would be premature.
Corey called for patience on Monday as her team of investigators continues looking into Martin's killing.
"Justifiable use of deadly force has been asserted in this case, will continue to be asserted, which will make our job more difficult," Corey told CNN, referring to the Stand Your Ground law.
Investigators from Corey's office interviewed Martin's parents on Monday and questioned neighbors who lived near the shooting scene.
Martin, a Miami high school student, was in Sanford, staying at the home of a friend of his father, because he had been suspended from school shortly before his death.
On Monday, a family spokesman said the 10-day suspension came after school officials discovered marijuana residue in a plastic bag inside Martin's book bag.
"Regardless of Trayvon's suspension, it had nothing to do with what happened on February 26," Ryan Julison, the family spokesman, told reporters.
Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, suggested in comments at a news conference that the marijuana residue report was aimed at smearing her dead child.
"They've killed my son and now they're trying to kill his reputation," she said.
Civil rights leader Al Sharpton said Martin was being demonized in order to divert attention from Zimmerman's actions.
"I said to the parents, as much as they were hurting, they will try to make your son a junkie, a thief, an assaulter and everything else before this is all over because they've done it in every case we've fought," Sharpton said before entering a town hall meeting at the Sanford Civic Center on Monday.
Martin's father, Tracy Martin, said he was not seeking revenge.
"We're not asking for an eye for an eye. We're asking for justice, justice, justice," he said at the meeting.
Sanford City Commissioner Mark McCarty was taken to a hospital before the meeting began, apparently suffering from heart problems. McCarty, who has had heart problems in the past, successfully pushed last week for the no confidence vote that prompted Sanford's police chief to temporarily step down.
(Additional reporting by Edith Honan and Dan Trotta. Editing by Tom Brown and Christopher Wilson; Desking by Lisa Shumaker)
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What is "our insane gun laws?"
they doh work. the proof is right there in your headlines. maybe back in the day, the cost/benefit for guns made more sense. technology change that. however, dey have a committed segment of americans that want to live in de past so things doh change.
They Don't Work? In 2008 the SOCTUS, struck down a ban on handgun ownership in the District of Columbia, amid fears by the ban supporters that death by gun violence would increase, it did not! In fact crime as reported my Chief of Police Cathy Lanier, went down (as of 2012), especially the number of home invasions. In 2010 neighboring Prince Georges County recorded 11 murders into 11 days in the new year, the 12 murder was a home owner killing and intruder... The police got there in 14 mins...! He killed the thief in seconds!
Who is this "committed segment of Americans? Last check I got from the FBI data base was that "registered democratic women" made up 40% of the new purchases of guns for 2010/2011/2012...!
please include in your analysis gun deaths/accidents when junior find daddy/mommy's handgun.
Fool did Zimmerman find daddy or mommy's gun? Yes as a country we have more gun deaths than most countries but weighed against other countries were private guns are used to prevent certain types of crime, is a whole different story...!
dt, i don't know enough about this situation you cite above. did they expend resources clearing the streets of guns and ensuring guns could not get into their area before implementing this new gun law? probably not.
the seeds for american gun laws were laid long time ago and trayvon martin is its fruit. in de mean time work on your quick draw because if a tief get de drop on you, it doh matter what kind of guns yuh carrying. also, get a vest and wear it at all times. whether you like it or not, you are in an arms race with your fellow citizens.
by "committed segment" ah mean the NRA. yuh know, the ones that write your gun laws.
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http://www.youtube.com/v/9l2n2LEyfac
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What is "our insane gun laws?"
they doh work. the proof is right there in your headlines. maybe back in the day, the cost/benefit for guns made more sense. technology change that. however, dey have a committed segment of americans that want to live in de past so things doh change.
They Don't Work? In 2008 the SOCTUS, struck down a ban on handgun ownership in the District of Columbia, amid fears by the ban supporters that death by gun violence would increase, it did not! In fact crime as reported my Chief of Police Cathy Lanier, went down (as of 2012), especially the number of home invasions. In 2010 neighboring Prince Georges County recorded 11 murders into 11 days in the new year, the 12 murder was a home owner killing and intruder... The police got there in 14 mins...! He killed the thief in seconds!
Who is this "committed segment of Americans? Last check I got from the FBI data base was that "registered democratic women" made up 40% of the new purchases of guns for 2010/2011/2012...!
please include in your analysis gun deaths/accidents when junior find daddy/mommy's handgun.
Fool did Zimmerman find daddy or mommy's gun? Yes as a country we have more gun deaths than most countries but weighed against other countries were private guns are used to prevent certain types of crime, is a whole different story...!
dt, i don't know enough about this situation you cite above. did they expend resources clearing the streets of guns and ensuring guns could not get into their area before implementing this new gun law? probably not.
the seeds for american gun laws were laid long time ago and trayvon martin is its fruit. in de mean time work on your quick draw because if a tief get de drop on you, it doh matter what kind of guns yuh carrying. also, get a vest and wear it at all times[/b]. whether you like it or not, you are in an arms race with your fellow citizens.
by "committed segment" ah mean the NRA. yuh know, the ones that write your gun laws.
So Trayvon murder is a seed of our gun laws and not one man's over zealousness?
Doh worry about my quick draw or a vest...dat covered!
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What is "our insane gun laws?"
they doh work. the proof is right there in your headlines. maybe back in the day, the cost/benefit for guns made more sense. technology change that. however, dey have a committed segment of americans that want to live in de past so things doh change.
They Don't Work? In 2008 the SOCTUS, struck down a ban on handgun ownership in the District of Columbia, amid fears by the ban supporters that death by gun violence would increase, it did not! In fact crime as reported my Chief of Police Cathy Lanier, went down (as of 2012), especially the number of home invasions. In 2010 neighboring Prince Georges County recorded 11 murders into 11 days in the new year, the 12 murder was a home owner killing and intruder... The police got there in 14 mins...! He killed the thief in seconds!
Who is this "committed segment of Americans? Last check I got from the FBI data base was that "registered democratic women" made up 40% of the new purchases of guns for 2010/2011/2012...!
please include in your analysis gun deaths/accidents when junior find daddy/mommy's handgun.
Fool did Zimmerman find daddy or mommy's gun? Yes as a country we have more gun deaths than most countries but weighed against other countries were private guns are used to prevent certain types of crime, is a whole different story...!
dt, i don't know enough about this situation you cite above. did they expend resources clearing the streets of guns and ensuring guns could not get into their area before implementing this new gun law? probably not.
the seeds for american gun laws were laid long time ago and trayvon martin is its fruit. in de mean time work on your quick draw because if a tief get de drop on you, it doh matter what kind of guns yuh carrying. also, get a vest and wear it at all times[/b]. whether you like it or not, you are in an arms race with your fellow citizens.
by "committed segment" ah mean the NRA. yuh know, the ones that write your gun laws.
So Trayvon murder is a seed of our gun laws and not one man's over zealousness?
Doh worry about my quick draw or a vest...dat covered!
the state abetted zimmerman with their gun laws. this did not need to result in a death. like i wrote earlier, zimmerman "overzealousness" should have resulted in maybe a (one-sided) scuffle.
but eh, zimmerman didn't have to wait for de police to dispense justice which is the point you were making earlier. so by your criteria, zimmerman did the right thing.
put guns in all dem hands! guns for all of dem especially de crazy ones!
seriously, who will put their life under de judgement of dere fellow citizens? that is madness.
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if yuh want to discuss gun laws and gun regulation for the USA/ or Canada, we could start another thread, but I find it despicable that you'd exploit a young man's death to express yuh distaste for the American way.
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if yuh want to discuss gun laws and gun regulation for the USA/ or Canada, we could start another thread, but I find it despicable that you'd exploit a young man's death to express yuh distaste for the American way.
de man get turn down for a green card, after holding ah wukking permit..wha yuh expect?
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The two exchanged words before Martin punched the burly Zimmerman in the nose, sending him reeling to the ground. The teenager then began pummeling him and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, the newspaper said.
that is attempted murder by any reasonable definition.
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The two exchanged words before Martin punched the burly Zimmerman in the nose, sending him reeling to the ground. The teenager then began pummeling him and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, the newspaper said.
that is attempted murder by any reasonable definition.
Not if you do it in self defense in Florida.
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My sis works wit US Air and met his mother yday when dey came 2 Capital Hill. She hugged her and she said nice accent.
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The two exchanged words before Martin punched the burly Zimmerman in the nose, sending him reeling to the ground. The teenager then began pummeling him and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, the newspaper said.
that is attempted murder by any reasonable definition.
Not if you do it in self defense in Florida.
Except nothing at all seemed to be amiss with him based on the video of him after he was taken into the police station. Not even a crease in his clothing much less injuries, bruises or blood. Plz eh boy.
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The two exchanged words before Martin punched the burly Zimmerman in the nose, sending him reeling to the ground. The teenager then began pummeling him and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, the newspaper said.
that is attempted murder by any reasonable definition.
Not if you do it in self defense in Florida.
Except nothing at all seemed to be amiss with him based on the video of him after he was taken into the police station. Not even a crease in his clothing much less injuries, bruises or blood. Plz eh boy.
Well I waiting for the police photos or some kinda photo showing Zimmerman in a bruised and bloodied state......waiting patiently.... :waiting:
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The two exchanged words before Martin punched the burly Zimmerman in the nose, sending him reeling to the ground. The teenager then began pummeling him and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, the newspaper said.
that is attempted murder by any reasonable definition.
Not if you do it in self defense in Florida.
Except nothing at all seemed to be amiss with him based on the video of him after he was taken into the police station. Not even a crease in his clothing much less injuries, bruises or blood. Plz eh boy.
Well I waiting for the police photos or some kinda photo showing Zimmerman in a bruised and bloodied state......waiting patiently.... :waiting:
http://www.youtube.com/v/Pc0fQhGDxRo
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The video is helpful, but not dispositive on the issue of whether he was injured or whether it was self-defense... as many seem to be interpreting it to be.
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If he were injured as claimed there would have been blood on his clothes plus all the police officers would have been wearing gloves. The timeline from the scene of the murder to the precinct is also pretty short so there is now way he could have changed or tuck his shirt in his pants...
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If he were injured as claimed there would have been blood on his clothes plus all the police officers would have been wearing gloves. The timeline from the scene of the murder to the precinct is also pretty short so there is now way he could have changed or tuck his shirt in his pants...
um wouldn't they have also taken him to the hospital ??? I mean if your head is being banged up what about the possibility of concussion
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If he were injured as claimed there would have been blood on his clothes plus all the police officers would have been wearing gloves. The timeline from the scene of the murder to the precinct is also pretty short so there is now way he could have changed or tuck his shirt in his pants...
Do you know if he was treated at the scene before being brought to the police station?
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If he were injured as claimed there would have been blood on his clothes plus all the police officers would have been wearing gloves. The timeline from the scene of the murder to the precinct is also pretty short so there is now way he could have changed or tuck his shirt in his pants...
Do you know if he was treated at the scene before being brought to the police station?
What about shooting the kid that was on top of him? Where's the blood from the kid. There is only so much treatment for a bloody nose. It affect your entire face. But say what, Trayvon side will never be heard.
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What about shooting the kid that was on top of him? Where's the blood from the kid. There is only so much treatment for a bloody nose. It affect your entire face. But say what, Trayvon side will never be heard.
Some ah allyuh too emotional. This is not about this one side and dat one side... it's about what the evidence shows and what can be proved in court. I want to see justice for Trayvon too, but I'm also being practical in how I'm looking at things.
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if yuh want to discuss gun laws and gun regulation for the USA/ or Canada, we could start another thread, but I find it despicable that you'd exploit a young man's death to express yuh distaste for the American way.
sorry if you feel that way. hope your outrage extends to other exploiters of this incident.
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The problem right now is that because there was no formal prosecution/arrest, all we hearing is a bunch of unofficial and informal accounts, which appear to be changing, potentially inconsistent and some of which aren't even first hand accounts... This case needs to move to a court of law where witnesses testify under oath, where there is an official record of events, and where experts can examine and cross examine the case thoroughly - all this setta unofficial he say/she say is compromising the integrity of this "case", and I blame the Florida stand your ground law for this...If justice isn't served at the end of the day, yuh really hadda question the circumstances under which that was made possible....
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The police on the phone told the killer to not follow the kid. He decided to follow Trayvon, if anyone had the defense of stand your ground it would have been Trayvon, he was followed, confronted, and would have had every right to defend himself.
You follow someone, shoot them, walk away with hardly a scratch, and still walking free.
Somebody in Florida need to find him, follow him and....
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It is my understanding that the Florida Stand your Ground Law was implemented to protect Floridians from the large influx of undesirables from the frozen tundra up north, known as Canada. ;)
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If he were injured as claimed there would have been blood on his clothes plus all the police officers would have been wearing gloves. The timeline from the scene of the murder to the precinct is also pretty short so there is now way he could have changed or tuck his shirt in his pants...
Do you know if he was treated at the scene before being brought to the police station?
Had he been treated at the scene there would have been both a police and and EMT report so far there isn't any...
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Dis man still not in jail yet ??? ???
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check dis fool. he sound like he drunk too:
http://www.youtube.com/v/uK4aSJR6Uq0
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What about shooting the kid that was on top of him? Where's the blood from the kid. There is only so much treatment for a bloody nose. It affect your entire face. But say what, Trayvon side will never be heard.
Some ah allyuh too emotional. This is not about this one side and dat one side... it's about what the evidence shows and what can be proved in court. I want to see justice for Trayvon too, but I'm also being practical in how I'm looking at things.
This is why I have taken a step back and tried to reevaluate my position. I was becoming too emotional, to the point where emotion was clouding my logic.
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Dis man still not in jail yet ??? ???
Dey waitin for Ian Alleyne to bring him in
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Had he been treated at the scene there would have been both a police and and EMT report so far there isn't any...
Which means nothing. Reports I have heard actually indicate that he was treated by EMT at the scene. Now this doesn't mean that he was injured to the extent he claims, especially since there are no bandages on his head/nose... but just further underscores why we must not rush to judgment on this. There's been enough of that as is.
This is why I have taken a step back and tried to reevaluate my position. I was becoming too emotional, to the point where emotion was clouding my logic.
I not even trying to act like I'm some kinda supercool, unemotional fella... this thing upsetting to me as the next man. However, if I was to vent a spleen every time I thought there was a miscarriage of justice I would be dead already. Things have a way of balancing out, and ultimately is not man... not Zimmerman, not the police chief, not the State's Attorney who is in control of this. The more analytical I try and approach this is the better prepared I will be for the outcome, whether I agree or disagree with that outcome.
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Better video on CNN here...
http://edition.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c1#/video/crime/2012/03/28/ac-zimmerman-handcuffs.abcnews-com
I'm trying my best to understand how a 6'2" 140 lb maaga youth could pin down a 5'9" 250 lb oaf, break his nose and then slam his head repeatedly on the pavement..
Further to which, the video shows no broken nose, bloody tshirt or lacerations in the back of the head that would be consistent with the type of altercation described in the police report.
I take that step back and evaluate a long time ago, and still cant understand why there isn't enough material for this matter to proceed to a court of law to be fleshed out properly.
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Martin had a cell phone. Wonder why he didn't do what this fella do?:
http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/s-j64j9lBiuH5iLRAfqL-dQ/view.m?id=15&gid=uk/2012/mar/30/police-racism-black-man-abuse&cat=top-stories
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Martin had a cell phone. Wonder why he didn't do what this fella do?:
http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/s-j64j9lBiuH5iLRAfqL-dQ/view.m?id=15&gid=uk/2012/mar/30/police-racism-black-man-abuse&cat=top-stories
I betting that your father had a condom and all now he wondering; "Why the f**k I didn't use it?"
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Martin had a cell phone. Wonder why he didn't do what this fella do?:
http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/s-j64j9lBiuH5iLRAfqL-dQ/view.m?id=15&gid=uk/2012/mar/30/police-racism-black-man-abuse&cat=top-stories
I betting that your father had a condom and all now he wondering; "Why the f**k I didn't use it?"
More than stretching the boundaries of free speech, Ribbit tests the elasticity of freedom of thought.
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Martin had a cell phone. Wonder why he didn't do what this fella do?:
http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/s-j64j9lBiuH5iLRAfqL-dQ/view.m?id=15&gid=uk/2012/mar/30/police-racism-black-man-abuse&cat=top-stories
I betting that your father had a condom and all now he wondering; "Why the f**k I didn't use it?"
More than stretching the boundaries of free speech, Ribbit tests the elasticity of freedom of thought.
I tell you what, he real grasping, surfing, trying to find some way to keep up his idiotic assertion that a hoodie was the cause of Trayvon's death.
as for elasticity, it like the elastic in ah old worn out Canadian panty
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Martin had a cell phone. Wonder why he didn't do what this fella do?:
http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/s-j64j9lBiuH5iLRAfqL-dQ/view.m?id=15&gid=uk/2012/mar/30/police-racism-black-man-abuse&cat=top-stories
I betting that your father had a condom and all now he wondering; "Why the f**k I didn't use it?"
More than stretching the boundaries of free speech, Ribbit tests the elasticity of freedom of thought.
:D
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By msnbc.com staff
The voice heard crying for help on a 911 call just before Trayvon Martin was shot to death was not that of George Zimmerman, according to two forensic voice identification experts, the Orlando Sentinel reported Saturday.
Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, told the Sentinel that he used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman.
The 911 call, reposted in this YouTube clip, came on the night of Feb. 26 from a woman who reported someone crying out for help in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.
In the recording of her phone call, panicked cries and a gunshot are heard.
The Sentinel said it contacted Owen, who it described as a court-qualified expert witness and former chief engineer for the New York Public Library's Rodgers and Hammerstein Archives of Recorded Sound. He told the newspaper he used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman's voice to the 911 call screams.
Owen told the newspaper that the software compared the screams to Zimmerman's voice and returned a 48 percent match. He said he would expect a match of higher than 90 percent, considering the quality of the audio.
"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen told the Sentinel.
But he also said he could not confirm the voice as Trayvon's, because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice.
The Sentinel said that Ed Primeau, a Michigan-based audio engineer and forensics expert, used audio enhancement and human analysis and came to the same conclusion.
Thousands of Trayvon supporters march to police station
"I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau told the newspaper. "That's a young man screaming."
On Feb. 26, Zimmerman, a white Hispanic, had called 911 to report a "suspicious" person and followed Martin against the dispatcher's advice. Martin and Zimmerman grappled, and Martin was shot in the chest.
Zimmerman told police that he was walking back to his vehicle when Martin attacked him and slammed his head against the ground and that he shot in self defense. Police declined to arrest Zimmerman citing Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, which gives wide latitude to use deadly force when a threat is perceived.
The lack of an arrest in the case has brought protests across the country. In Sanford on Saturday, thousands of protesters marched to the police station.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-audio-screams-were-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say (http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/01/10963191-trayvon-martin-case-audio-screams-were-not-george-zimmermans-2-experts-say)
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I listened to that call last night. And it really really upset me. Maybe it's because I also lost a brother but this one just upset me bad. To hear a young fella crying for help and then shot dead. Make me want to go get Zimmerman's head, no trial.
Another thing that vex me is that people making Trayvon's pic an issue. Did anybody care when they were showing only the best of Natalie Holloway? Privileged Teen culture in America equals the lifestyles of movies like American Pie and such; drunkenness and lewdness. In my world view it's not wise to send your 16 year old daughter to some other country to fete. However, when a tragedy happens those things should not matter because no one deserves to be murdered. Some people want pics posted of the fella like a gangsta and thing. America have a long way to go in this race business.
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That 911 call with the young man crying out in the background is very chilling! Like a trapped animal seeing the end coming. Just sad, can't imagine what his parents felt hearing it. Zimmerman better out his own light or somebody out there will. He will be lucky to be able to walk the streets again and feel safe. I want to see how this will all play out in the end.
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This deserves a separate thread but I'll post it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2mjvFNOwmc&feature=share
This is a great and insightful view of White privileged. Lots' of good stats. and historical accuracy. If someone can post it here that'll be good. Nice piece.
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This deserves a separate thread but I'll post it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2mjvFNOwmc&feature=share
This is a great and insightful view of White privileged. Lots' of good stats. and historical accuracy. If someone can post it here that'll be good. Nice piece.
Preacher, check out this thread from a few years back from de same fellow.
http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=34557.msg405191#msg405191
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Zimmerman neighbor on rash of robberies by ‘young black men’ before Trayvon shooting: ‘If you plant corn, you get corn’
(http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/zimmerman-neighbor-rash-robberies-young-black-men-trayvon-145647987.html)
George Zimmerman's Sanford, Fla., neighbor, said the neighborhood watchman protected his residence from a potential burglary several weeks before shooting Trayvon Martin.
Frank Taaffe, a former neighborhood watch captain, told CNN that his house in the process of being robbed on Feb. 2, but Zimmerman called Sanford police, who thwarted the robbery.
"My house was being robbed, and George on his nightly rounds watched this burglary in progress, called Sanford P.D., waited for them, and helped ensure that nothing bad happened to my house," Taaffe said. "And it's documented the 911 call for February 2. That was my residence that George Zimmerman helped stop." Zimmerman shot and killed Martin on Feb. 26.
"Neighbor-hood, that's a great word," Taaffe said.
Taaffe said that "young black males" were the perpetrators in the attempted robbery of his home. "We had eight burglaries in our neighborhood all perpetrated by young black males in the 15 months prior to Trayvon being shot," Taaffe said. "It would have been nine."
"All of the perpetrators of the burglaries, the prior burglaries, were young black males," Taaffe added.
Taaffe denied that he told the New York Times that burglaries were done by "Trayvon-like dudes with their pants down."
"I never said that," he said. "I never used that term."
But on CNN, Taaffe followed up the denial of an incendiary comment with another one.
When asked if, based on the string of robberies, Zimmerman should have been profiling Trayvon Martin the night of the shooting, Taaffe said: "There's an old saying, 'If you plant corn, you get corn,'"
"It is what it is," he added. "I would go on record by stating that of the eight prior burglaries in the 15 months prior to the Trayvon Martin shooting, all of the perpetrators were young black males."
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I thought this piece very informative. When I first came to the US I didn't understand why black people seemed so pissed all the time. But after hanging around some African Americans who's parents have 2-3 Doctorates it became very clear why the tension is there. Simply put White could afford to forget even if it's less than a generation of sanctioned racism.
One of my clients is a school in North Minneapolis(Low income area). It's a mostly black charter school. 3rd,4th and 5th graders outperforming every school in the state of MN in Reading and Math. Solid school system in place and kids are performing very. I wonder if South Central LA would be the same place if white privilege wasn't real?
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Ribbit white people commit more crimes and worst crimes than black people. How come they aren't getting corn? The very headline implies that someone should go to jail. Last I checked no one should take the law into their own hands. But maybe whites can.
Taffe is an ignoramus
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Zimmerman neighbor on rash of robberies by ‘young black men’ before Trayvon shooting: ‘If you plant corn, you get corn’
(http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/zimmerman-neighbor-rash-robberies-young-black-men-trayvon-145647987.html)
George Zimmerman's Sanford, Fla., neighbor, said the neighborhood watchman protected his residence from a potential burglary several weeks before shooting Trayvon Martin.
Frank Taaffe, a former neighborhood watch captain, told CNN that his house in the process of being robbed on Feb. 2, but Zimmerman called Sanford police, who thwarted the robbery.
"My house was being robbed, and George on his nightly rounds watched this burglary in progress, called Sanford P.D., waited for them, and helped ensure that nothing bad happened to my house," Taaffe said. "And it's documented the 911 call for February 2. That was my residence that George Zimmerman helped stop." Zimmerman shot and killed Martin on Feb. 26.
"Neighbor-hood, that's a great word," Taaffe said.
Taaffe said that "young black males" were the perpetrators in the attempted robbery of his home. "We had eight burglaries in our neighborhood all perpetrated by young black males in the 15 months prior to Trayvon being shot," Taaffe said. "It would have been nine."
"All of the perpetrators of the burglaries, the prior burglaries, were young black males," Taaffe added.
Taaffe denied that he told the New York Times that burglaries were done by "Trayvon-like dudes with their pants down."
"I never said that," he said. "I never used that term."
But on CNN, Taaffe followed up the denial of an incendiary comment with another one.
When asked if, based on the string of robberies, Zimmerman should have been profiling Trayvon Martin the night of the shooting, Taaffe said: "There's an old saying, 'If you plant corn, you get corn,'"
"It is what it is," he added. "I would go on record by stating that of the eight prior burglaries in the 15 months prior to the Trayvon Martin shooting, all of the perpetrators were young black males."
You still on yuh crusade against common sense?
Taffe is a racist, just like his pardnuh Zimmerman. The first time I heard him on TV I realized it. There were 8 burglaries and all of them were by young black males? How they know, they catch all of these young black males in these 8 burglaries in the act? EH!!??Maybe you should check the crime statistics in the United States and see which race is committing most of the crimes.
Here is what people realizing, Ribbit...the neighborhood itself is NOT majority white. There is a perception by people, you too I'm sure, that black people live only in the ghetto. In fact, in all these new walled in communities particularly in Florida, the real truth is that black people also quietly live in these neighborhoods, minding their own business like everyone else. In that particular community, whites are a minority, Blacks are 40 something % and Hispanics another 40 something %. All them "suspicious young black males" Zimmerman calling the police about I'll bet you were residents on their way home****JUST LIKE TRAYVON MARTIN****. Ent he say he tired of all of them getting away, (trust me, death penalty for he for this statement). Well they got away because they went inside their house.
I wouldn't be surprised if Taffe and he pardnuh Zimmerman (BTW..hispanic my ass) belong to one of them Militia that popping up all over the country since Obama became president. If yuh eh look sharp, the DA and he pardnuh the police chief too.
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ribbit...ah know yuh feel this article yuh post does plenty to reinforce yuh foolish, geraldo-esque opinion eh. But it doesn't jed. It doesn't at all so keep readin' it. And weep.
ribbit is now trying to pass blame on Trayvon's parents for not teaching him that in 2012 he can walk where he wants, talk how he wants and drink ice tea in the USA.
Even if the twats suppositions were true, dung beetle is ignoring the FCAT that this CHILD was walking, minding his own business in a NEIGHBOR where he had every right to be....he was walking HOME! To his father;s place.
ANd what compounds this f**keries is that he lay in a morgue for about 24 hours before anyone even thought to check and see if he was supposed to be in that hood.
tt, mc, it is a tragedy that fools like zimmerman, who want to play soldier, get to arm themselves. according to his account, martin reach for de weapon and then this ting, which in any civilized place would have been limited to a beatdown, turn into a death. it seem like allyuh glossing over de insane gun laws allyuh have and only studying whether zims is a racist.
when al and jesse start to chirp and lebron and dwayne wade tweet pics in hoodies allyuh lose yuh focus and jump on de wagon. like mrs. martin say "this is not a black-white issue". she is absolutely right! de martins couldn't care less whether zimmerman have he racism card stamp, the issue is why trayvon martin is dead. al and jesse have allyuh train REAL good.
so wear yuh hoodies and drink yuh iced tea and shove skittles in allyuh bamsee. that distracts from the real issue. yuh want things like dey was in de wild west. form yuh posse and chase that 10G.
btw: ah posted a few months back for socafan a reference that explain in detail why the black code is a sad but necessary reality but like he get lost on de way to barnes and noble. ah guess it easier to turn on de tv and listen to al and jesse tell allyuh what to think.
[/b]
??...LOL... What you talking about here pardnuh? I feel is some stupidness I jess ignore. Provide a refresh nuh?
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ribbit...ah know yuh feel this article yuh post does plenty to reinforce yuh foolish, geraldo-esque opinion eh. But it doesn't jed. It doesn't at all so keep readin' it. And weep.
ribbit is now trying to pass blame on Trayvon's parents for not teaching him that in 2012 he can walk where he wants, talk how he wants and drink ice tea in the USA.
Even if the twats suppositions were true, dung beetle is ignoring the FCAT that this CHILD was walking, minding his own business in a NEIGHBOR where he had every right to be....he was walking HOME! To his father;s place.
ANd what compounds this f**keries is that he lay in a morgue for about 24 hours before anyone even thought to check and see if he was supposed to be in that hood.
tt, mc, it is a tragedy that fools like zimmerman, who want to play soldier, get to arm themselves. according to his account, martin reach for de weapon and then this ting, which in any civilized place would have been limited to a beatdown, turn into a death. it seem like allyuh glossing over de insane gun laws allyuh have and only studying whether zims is a racist.
when al and jesse start to chirp and lebron and dwayne wade tweet pics in hoodies allyuh lose yuh focus and jump on de wagon. like mrs. martin say "this is not a black-white issue". she is absolutely right! de martins couldn't care less whether zimmerman have he racism card stamp, the issue is why trayvon martin is dead. al and jesse have allyuh train REAL good.
so wear yuh hoodies and drink yuh iced tea and shove skittles in allyuh bamsee. that distracts from the real issue. yuh want things like dey was in de wild west. form yuh posse and chase that 10G.
btw: ah posted a few months back for socafan a reference that explain in detail why the black code is a sad but necessary reality but like he get lost on de way to barnes and noble. ah guess it easier to turn on de tv and listen to al and jesse tell allyuh what to think.
[/b]
??...LOL... What you talking about here pardnuh? I feel is some stupidness I jess ignore. Provide a refresh nuh?
look here:
http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=56235.msg791483#msg791483
clearly yuh doh take what i wrote seriously. until you make an effort, there's nothing more to discuss.
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/86948628/Trayvon-Martin-Police-Report
(http://htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/45p8lvxnk01hnxy2/images/1-0b81dbeb20.jpg)
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(http://htmlimg4.scribdassets.com/45p8lvxnk01hnxy2/images/3-745e7f5751.jpg)
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hhhhhhhhhmmmmm......so yes, he was bloodied and bruised. Yes, he appeared to be in a scuffle or some kind of fight with Trayvon. I guess he decide to shoot Trayvon well, because he could and plead self defence......hhhhhhmmmmm.......
I need to get a gun..... :thinking:
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From the folks at the Daily Show when the whole thing was just blowing up.....
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-march-26-2012/c-n-i---cable-news-investigators---dick-cheney-s-heart (http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-march-26-2012/c-n-i---cable-news-investigators---dick-cheney-s-heart)
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-march-26-2012/c-n-i---cable-news-investigators---hoodie-threat
(http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-march-26-2012/c-n-i---cable-news-investigators---hoodie-threat)
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Anyone ever been pursued by someone ... who at the time of the pursuit you had no reason to know or infer that the person in pursuit was a police officer ... but, subsequent to the chase you learn the person is an officer?
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Police: Teen On Cell When He Was Shot
Wed, Mar 21, 2012 - KOCO - Oklahoma City 0:42 | 50,425 views
Police say 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was on his cell phone when neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman shot and killed him.
http://news.yahoo.com/video/oklahomacitykoco-18229979/police-teen-on-cell-when-he-was-shot-28690498.html
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Anyone ever been pursued by someone ... who at the time of the pursuit you had no reason to know or infer that the person in pursuit was a police officer ... but, subsequent to the chase you learn the person is an officer?
I hear dat does only happen when yuh trolling fuh ho's ;D
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Anyone ever been pursued by someone ... who at the time of the pursuit you had no reason to know or infer that the person in pursuit was a police officer ... but, subsequent to the chase you learn the person is an officer?
I hear dat does only happen when yuh trolling fuh ho's ;D
Capo?
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Anyone ever been pursued by someone ... who at the time of the pursuit you had no reason to know or infer that the person in pursuit was a police officer ... but, subsequent to the chase you learn the person is an officer?
I hear dat does only happen when yuh trolling fuh ho's in China Town! ;D
Bakes ah fix dat fuh yuh. ;)
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Anyone ever been pursued by someone ... who at the time of the pursuit you had no reason to know or infer that the person in pursuit was a police officer ... but, subsequent to the chase you learn the person is an officer?
I hear dat does only happen when yuh trolling fuh ho's in China Town! ;D
Bakes ah fix dat fuh yuh. ;)
I not in allyuh thing nah lol.
Asylum I just want tuh hear de part about when yuh realize de hooker was really ah undercover :D
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Ask a serious question and iz pure comedy ... ;D
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sounds like dey enhance the audio of the alleged racial slur that zimmerman uttered:
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/04/06/enhanced-zimmerman-911-call-trayvon-martin
they trying hard to spin it but it's pretty clear zimmerman saying "f**king punks". all yuh race warriors out there, that are the oxygen to sharpton and jackson, will find a way to reinterpret this.
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sounds like dey enhance the audio of the alleged racial slur that zimmerman uttered:
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/04/06/enhanced-zimmerman-911-call-trayvon-martin
they trying hard to spin it but it's pretty clear zimmerman saying "f**king punks". all yuh race warriors out there, that are the oxygen to sharpton and jackson, will find a way to reinterpret this.
Pretty clear yuh say? Your name musse Jaime Sommers. It is pretty clear what your agenda is in this thread and truth and intelligent conversation clearly not on the list. You still eh demonstrate that yuh understand de meaning of the word "transcript" and how it different from some third party account... yet yuh shamelessly keep returning to this thread making a repeated ass of yuhself.
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sounds like dey enhance the audio of the alleged racial slur that zimmerman uttered:
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/04/06/enhanced-zimmerman-911-call-trayvon-martin
they trying hard to spin it but it's pretty clear zimmerman saying "f**king punks". all yuh race warriors out there, that are the oxygen to sharpton and jackson, will find a way to reinterpret this.
Oh GORSH, man, you worse dan a NYC subway rat or a Promenanade cockroach boy!! You really and truly believe in what you sayin' ah get that. I feel is a whole nest of ribbits runin' roung in yuh hole, pullin' shifts on the computer oui! So let us take out the race for a minute. Lewwe take Al Sharpton, the NAACP, and all black people out ot this for a minute...let us say that Trayvonn Martin and yuh bff zimmermann look exactly alike....given all the evidence to date...how the f**k does this whole situation make zimmermann's actions the correct course of action and Trayvonn Martin's the wrong one? Please, explain that to me.....in a manner that REALLY makes sense.
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Trayvon Martin shooting: no grand jury for Zimmerman (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/trayvon-martin-shooting-no-grand-jury-zimmerman-161400993.html)
By Dylan Stableford
Florida state attorney Angela Corey, the special prosecutor appointed to investigate the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, said on Monday that the case will not go to a grand jury.
The decision does not rule out the possibility that George Zimmerman, Martin's shooter, could be arrested.
The grand jury had been set to meet Tuesday in Sanford, Fla., where the Feb. 26 shooting occurred.
"From the moment she was assigned, Ms. Corey noted she may not need a grand jury," a statement from Corey's office read. "The decision should not be considered a factor in the final determination of the case. At this time, the investigation continues and there will be no further comment from this office."
According to the Associated Press, Corey has "a reputation for not presenting cases before grand juries if it wasn't required." (Only first-degree murder cases require the use of grand juries in Florida, the AP noted.)
The lawyer for Martin's family, Ben Crump, said in a statement that he was hopeful the announcement by the special prosecutor would be followed by the announcement of Zimmerman's arrest.
"We had hoped she had enough evidence without the need to convene a grand jury," Crump said. "The family is trying to have patience and faith through all of this. We know we want that day to come. We want a very public trial so the evidence can come out and show people that the justice system works for everybody."
Meanwhile, Hal Uhrig, Zimmerman's attorney, called Corey's decision not to involve a grand jury "courageous on her part."
Earlier Monday, lawyers for the neighborhood watchman said that if Zimmerman is not charged, he would speak out. Zimmerman has not spoken to the media since the shooting.
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sounds like dey enhance the audio of the alleged racial slur that zimmerman uttered:
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/04/06/enhanced-zimmerman-911-call-trayvon-martin
they trying hard to spin it but it's pretty clear zimmerman saying "f**king punks". all yuh race warriors out there, that are the oxygen to sharpton and jackson, will find a way to reinterpret this.
Oh GORSH, man, you worse dan a NYC subway rat or a Promenanade cockroach boy!! You really and truly believe in what you sayin' ah get that. I feel is a whole nest of ribbits runin' roung in yuh hole, pullin' shifts on the computer oui! So let us take out the race for a minute. Lewwe take Al Sharpton, the NAACP, and all black people out ot this for a minute...let us say that Trayvonn Martin and yuh bff zimmermann look exactly alike....given all the evidence to date...how the f**k does this whole situation make zimmermann's actions the correct course of action and Trayvonn Martin's the wrong one? Please, explain that to me.....in a manner that REALLY makes sense.
mc, somehow zimmerman and martin got into a physical confrontation. witness talking about a struggle. could be that zimmerman initiated it.
but how did that get to a point where martin was slamming zimmerman's head against the pavement? to me, that is reason to fear for one's life. if that actually happened than it's understandable how things escalated. cooler heads do not prevail in that kind of situation. aside: ah wonder sometimes if the american gun culture is actually corrosive to civilized discourse.
ah see e-man post about how martin could be stomping zimmerman in self-defense. hey, so they both acting in self-defense, although ah curious what offence zimmerman mount up to the point when he was getting he head smashed into the pavement. maybe zimmerman had swung he nose on martin's bare unprotected fist?
i have yet to read a coherent narrative, consistent with the evidence in the papers, that has martin as a PASSIVE agent.
what responsibility does zimmerman have? none. people throwing up this red herring about "racial profiling" like zimmerman pull martin out of de airport lineup. that concept doh apply to this situation at all.
again, check that article on the black code. that should be essential reading and it is a unfortunate reality for many in the usa, uk, canada, etc.. maybe ah overestimating the abilities of a 17-year old to defuse that situation but ah really doubt it.
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ribbit...ah know yuh feel this article yuh post does plenty to reinforce yuh foolish, geraldo-esque opinion eh. But it doesn't jed. It doesn't at all so keep readin' it. And weep.
ribbit is now trying to pass blame on Trayvon's parents for not teaching him that in 2012 he can walk where he wants, talk how he wants and drink ice tea in the USA.
Even if the twats suppositions were true, dung beetle is ignoring the FCAT that this CHILD was walking, minding his own business in a NEIGHBOR where he had every right to be....he was walking HOME! To his father;s place.
ANd what compounds this f**keries is that he lay in a morgue for about 24 hours before anyone even thought to check and see if he was supposed to be in that hood.
tt, mc, it is a tragedy that fools like zimmerman, who want to play soldier, get to arm themselves. according to his account, martin reach for de weapon and then this ting, which in any civilized place would have been limited to a beatdown, turn into a death. it seem like allyuh glossing over de insane gun laws allyuh have and only studying whether zims is a racist.
when al and jesse start to chirp and lebron and dwayne wade tweet pics in hoodies allyuh lose yuh focus and jump on de wagon. like mrs. martin say "this is not a black-white issue". she is absolutely right! de martins couldn't care less whether zimmerman have he racism card stamp, the issue is why trayvon martin is dead. al and jesse have allyuh train REAL good.
so wear yuh hoodies and drink yuh iced tea and shove skittles in allyuh bamsee. that distracts from the real issue. yuh want things like dey was in de wild west. form yuh posse and chase that 10G.
btw: ah posted a few months back for socafan a reference that explain in detail why the black code is a sad but necessary reality but like he get lost on de way to barnes and noble. ah guess it easier to turn on de tv and listen to al and jesse tell allyuh what to think.
[/b]
??...LOL... What you talking about here pardnuh? I feel is some stupidness I jess ignore. Provide a refresh nuh?
look here:
http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=56235.msg791483#msg791483
clearly yuh doh take what i wrote seriously. until you make an effort, there's nothing more to discuss.
Ribbit.. If yuh referring to the rationality of racism chapter of this book with the experiment between green and purple and their investment in education, this author completely shagged his point, and this is why I ignored this. He is trying to say that there is a difference between statistical racism and plain old taste- based racism and the former is solely what's occurring here.
However, all is well and good with this little experiment, until in real life the most educated individual with black skin sits in front of the interviewer. For black people, statistical racism turns into plain old taste - based racism at that point, no matter how qualified or experienced they are. All the statistics go out the window except the one where the people with black skin just can't get the job ostensibly because the white HR person just won't hire them. Hence affirmation action. YOU MUST HIRE OR ELSE (the employer is forced to make the rational decision at this point)
That experiment was bogus. The author didn't follow it to its rational conclusion. Nuff people refute this part of the book just for that, maybe in your haste to validate your own personal convictions yuh overlook the obvious? Say it eh so.
Again...there can be no rational basis for racism. Think about it Rasta...
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sounds like dey enhance the audio of the alleged racial slur that zimmerman uttered:
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/04/06/enhanced-zimmerman-911-call-trayvon-martin
they trying hard to spin it but it's pretty clear zimmerman saying "f**king punks". all yuh race warriors out there, that are the oxygen to sharpton and jackson, will find a way to reinterpret this.
Oh GORSH, man, you worse dan a NYC subway rat or a Promenanade cockroach boy!! You really and truly believe in what you sayin' ah get that. I feel is a whole nest of ribbits runin' roung in yuh hole, pullin' shifts on the computer oui! So let us take out the race for a minute. Lewwe take Al Sharpton, the NAACP, and all black people out ot this for a minute...let us say that Trayvonn Martin and yuh bff zimmermann look exactly alike....given all the evidence to date...how the f**k does this whole situation make zimmermann's actions the correct course of action and Trayvonn Martin's the wrong one? Please, explain that to me.....in a manner that REALLY makes sense.
mc, somehow zimmerman and martin got into a physical confrontation. witness talking about a struggle. could be that zimmerman initiated it.
but how did that get to a point where martin was slamming zimmerman's head against the pavement? to me, that is reason to fear for one's life. if that actually happened than it's understandable how things escalated. cooler heads do not prevail in that kind of situation. aside: ah wonder sometimes if the american gun culture is actually corrosive to civilized discourse.
ah see e-man post about how martin could be stomping zimmerman in self-defense. hey, so they both acting in self-defense, although ah curious what offence zimmerman mount up to the point when he was getting he head smashed into the pavement. maybe zimmerman had swung he nose on martin's bare unprotected fist?
i have yet to read a coherent narrative, consistent with the evidence in the papers, that has martin as a PASSIVE agent.
what responsibility does zimmerman have? none. people throwing up this red herring about "racial profiling" like zimmerman pull martin out of de airport lineup. that concept doh apply to this situation at all.
again, check that article on the black code. that should be essential reading and it is a unfortunate reality for many in the usa, uk, canada, etc.. maybe ah overestimating the abilities of a 17-year old to defuse that situation but ah really doubt it.
I eh go lie Ribbit, yuh persistent...
- Martin is walking along seemingly minding his own business talking on a cell phone
- Zimmerman sees him, believes he is "suspicious" (why, no one knows but plenty people surmising).
- Martin realizes he is being followed, goes over to see who is following him and then takes off running (Why does this happen)?
- Zimmerman leaves his vehicle and chases after Martin.
- Zimmerman catches up to Martin and according to the person on the other end of the cellphone at Martin's ear does not say anything other than to demand "what are you doing here?"
RIBBIT...STOP! THINK!......WHO IS BEING AGGRESSIVE HERE? MARTIN OR ZIMMERMAN?
- A fight ensues between Martin and Zimmerman. We don't know who threw first but Zimmerman says its Martin. Does it really matter at this point?(this is the crux of the matter)
- Zimmerman seemingly is losing the fight and getting the living shit kicked out of him, so he decides to pull his gun and shoot Martin who dies
Zimmerman claims that after he confronted Martin (doesn't that sound like he was being the aggressor?) words were exchanged and for him it just ended there, then Zimmerman turned and decided to walk back to his vehicle, when for no good reason, Martin just jumped on him just like that and started to beat him to death. So he shot Martin in fear of his life. Maybe he really hurt Martin's feelings with harsh language? This shit sounds plausible to you and even more, its Martin's fault for not diffusing the situation, especially since Zimmerman had no responsibility to do any such thing as you are claiming??
You and Zimmerman are trying to say that despite that fact that Martin turned out to be just an innocent person walking home, and despite the fact that he was chasing Martin, and despite the fact that he is neighborhood watch Captain (self appointed no less..he IS the neighborhood watch) and should have known better, and despite the fact that the cops were on the way, and despite the fact that he was asked not to follow Martin, and despite the fact that Martin was obviously trying to avoid confrontation, that when he confronted Martin and his own actions resulted in an altercation and the death of Martin that somehow its all Martin's fault.
REALLY!!?
[/list]
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Blasted Martin. Gone and spoil de rest of dis man life.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57411603/reports-george-zimmerman-seeks-donations-on-his-new-website/
George Zimmerman, the man who fatally shooting unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida, has started a website "to ensure my supporters they are receiving my full attention without any intermediaries," according to numerous reports.
While the website, therealgeorgezimmerman.com, was unavailable as of the writing of this report, CNN and other news outlets report his lawyers have confirmed its authenticity.
"On Sunday February 26th, I was involved in a life altering event which led me to become the subject of intense media coverage. As a result of the incident and subsequent media coverage, I have been forced to leave my home, my school, my employer, my family and ultimately, my entire life," the website states, according to CNN.
The site includes a link to donate funds to help pay for Zimmerman's lawyers and living expenses because of his "forced inability to maintain employment," CNN reports.
"I thank you for your patience and I assure you, the facts will come to light," the website states, according to MSNBC. Zimmerman then goes on to quote a philosophy attributed to sociologist James W. Loewen: "People have a right to their own opinions, but not to their own facts. Evidence must be located, not created, and opinions not backed by evidence cannot be given much weight."
The website does not contain Zimmerman's accounts of his interaction with Trayvon Martin, according to reports.
Meanwhile, Florida State Attorney Angela Corey has decided not to use a grand jury in her investigation into the shooting death of Martin.
The grand jury, scheduled by the case's previous prosecutor, was set to convene on April 10.
A statement released by her office said that the decision "should not be considered a factor in the final determination of the case."
Corey was appointed by Gov. Rick Scott last month to take over the investigation. At that time she said she may not need a grand jury.
Corey, the state attorney for the Jacksonville area, was appointed to take over the case after the local state attorney, Norman Wolfinger, recused himself.
Monday's statement said that the investigation continues, and declined further comment.
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Zimerman will be charged sometime this week, may be as soon as tomorrow...
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Zimerman will be charged sometime this week, may be as soon as tomorrow...
When will ribbit be charged?
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Zimerman will be charged sometime this week, may be as soon as tomorrow...
When will ribbit be charged?
You cannot charge handicapped people.
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Zimerman will be charged sometime this week, may be as soon as tomorrow...
When will ribbit be charged?
:rotfl:
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Should George Zimmerman be prosecuted?
(http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/10/opinion/odonnell-martin-zimmerman/index.html?hpt=hp_bn7)
Editor's note: Eugene O'Donnell, a former New York City police officer and prosecutor, is a professor of law and police studies at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.
(CNN) -- George Zimmerman should only be prosecuted if, after an exhaustive investigation and an honest assessment of Florida's "stand your ground" law, special prosecutor Angela Corey concludes that there is a strong possibility of proving his guilt at trial for the killing of Trayvon Martin.
No American should ever be prosecuted for any crime as a consequence of the demands of a crowd, however large or vocal. This core principle of justice should stand regardless of the facts of a case or the radioactivity of a defendant. The justice system, fragile at best, is imperiled when prosecutorial decisions are tied to politics.
That said, good prosecutors should vigorously pursue cases when justice demands, even and maybe especially, when there are legal impediments. To do less, especially in a homicide case, is to create one of society's greatest miscarriages: the failure to hold accountable someone who acted culpably to take the life of another. The victim's life must be vindicated. Unfortunately, some prosecutors find themselves legally paralyzed by complex cases or shrink from pursuing matters that are not air tight.
Unless there are clear legal red lights at the outset, successful prosecution frequently means stretching existing laws to achieve just ends. This means arguing at trial, and on appeal, that someone like Zimmerman can be brought to justice notwithstanding Florida's strong self defense law, or that the law should be construed less favorably to those who resort to deadly force.
In many self defense cases, the defendant can and does argue that the case should revolve around the uncertain moments of terror faced when he was confronted by an assailant, and that everyone in the court room is after-the-fact quarterbacking. The outcome of cases is determined by comparing the defendant's actions against state law. In no part of the country is a person threatened with death or serious physical injury required to suffer the first blow. A person can be found to have acted justifiably and reasonably for killing an unarmed person depending on the circumstances.
Florida authorizes deadly force "if the danger could be avoided only" by using it, but does not require a threatened person to try first to flee. In states with more restrictive self defense rules, deadly force is only an option if someone subjected to an attack can't escape with complete safety. In Florida and elsewhere, however, even if someone is an aggressor, he can regain the right to use self defense if he withdraws from the confrontation that he initiated.
Thus, a major challenge for the prosecution team in the Martin case may be the version of events that Zimmerman offers. In his account, the first face-to-face encounter with Trayvon Martin was occasioned when the teenager approached him and said, "You got a problem?" as Zimmerman was walking away.
It is imperative for the state to emphasize evidence that the defendant is not justified in his killing and discredit or explain all contradictory evidence. Witness statements will have to be parsed with great care, especially where they appear to support Zimmerman's version of events. The prosecution should also make sure that the defendant cannot introduce into the minds of the jurors something that is so off-putting that it gives rise to doubt about the propriety of the defendant's intentions and actions.
Even though the state has a lode of evidence, including vitally important 911 tapes that can offer a unique window into the motives of Zimmerman on that fateful night, it needs to be mindful of the narrative of fear that will be told by the defense counsel. (The Florida gated community has seen a number of crimes, Zimmerman was acting as a good citizen by being a neighborhood watch member, Martin is a powerfully built teenager, etc.) The defense will no doubt also exploit any lack of thoroughness in the police and forensic investigation as a bungled rush to judgment that can unsettle the minds of jurors who might otherwise be horrified by the shooting.
To convict Zimmerman, a jury would have to find that there is no reasonable view of the evidence that would justify his lethal actions. Of course, the state's star witness, Trayvon Martin, is unavailable to them.
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sounds like dey enhance the audio of the alleged racial slur that zimmerman uttered:
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/04/06/enhanced-zimmerman-911-call-trayvon-martin
they trying hard to spin it but it's pretty clear zimmerman saying "f**king punks". all yuh race warriors out there, that are the oxygen to sharpton and jackson, will find a way to reinterpret this.
Oh GORSH, man, you worse dan a NYC subway rat or a Promenanade cockroach boy!! You really and truly believe in what you sayin' ah get that. I feel is a whole nest of ribbits runin' roung in yuh hole, pullin' shifts on the computer oui! So let us take out the race for a minute. Lewwe take Al Sharpton, the NAACP, and all black people out ot this for a minute...let us say that Trayvonn Martin and yuh bff zimmermann look exactly alike....given all the evidence to date...how the f**k does this whole situation make zimmermann's actions the correct course of action and Trayvonn Martin's the wrong one? Please, explain that to me.....in a manner that REALLY makes sense.
mc, somehow zimmerman and martin got into a physical confrontation. witness talking about a struggle. could be that zimmerman initiated it.
but how did that get to a point where martin was slamming zimmerman's head against the pavement? to me, that is reason to fear for one's life. if that actually happened than it's understandable how things escalated. cooler heads do not prevail in that kind of situation. aside: ah wonder sometimes if the american gun culture is actually corrosive to civilized discourse.
ah see e-man post about how martin could be stomping zimmerman in self-defense. hey, so they both acting in self-defense, although ah curious what offence zimmerman mount up to the point when he was getting he head smashed into the pavement. maybe zimmerman had swung he nose on martin's bare unprotected fist?
i have yet to read a coherent narrative, consistent with the evidence in the papers, that has martin as a PASSIVE agent.
what responsibility does zimmerman have? none. people throwing up this red herring about "racial profiling" like zimmerman pull martin out of de airport lineup. that concept doh apply to this situation at all.
again, check that article on the black code. that should be essential reading and it is a unfortunate reality for many in the usa, uk, canada, etc.. maybe ah overestimating the abilities of a 17-year old to defuse that situation but ah really doubt it.
I eh go lie Ribbit, yuh persistent...
- Martin is walking along seemingly minding his own business talking on a cell phone
- Zimmerman sees him, believes he is "suspicious" (why, no one knows but plenty people surmising).
- Martin realizes he is being followed, goes over to see who is following him and then takes off running (Why does this happen)?
- Zimmerman leaves his vehicle and chases after Martin.
- Zimmerman catches up to Martin and according to the person on the other end of the cellphone at Martin's ear does not say anything other than to demand "what are you doing here?"
RIBBIT...STOP! THINK!......WHO IS BEING AGGRESSIVE HERE? MARTIN OR ZIMMERMAN?
- A fight ensues between Martin and Zimmerman. We don't know who threw first but Zimmerman says its Martin. Does it really matter at this point?(this is the crux of the matter)
- Zimmerman seemingly is losing the fight and getting the living shit kicked out of him, so he decides to pull his gun and shoot Martin who dies
Zimmerman claims that after he confronted Martin (doesn't that sound like he was being the aggressor?) words were exchanged and for him it just ended there, then Zimmerman turned and decided to walk back to his vehicle, when for no good reason, Martin just jumped on him just like that and started to beat him to death. So he shot Martin in fear of his life. Maybe he really hurt Martin's feelings with harsh language? This shit sounds plausible to you and even more, its Martin's fault for not diffusing the situation, especially since Zimmerman had no responsibility to do any such thing as you are claiming??
You and Zimmerman are trying to say that despite that fact that Martin turned out to be just an innocent person walking home, and despite the fact that he was chasing Martin, and despite the fact that he is neighborhood watch Captain (self appointed no less..he IS the neighborhood watch) and should have known better, and despite the fact that the cops were on the way, and despite the fact that he was asked not to follow Martin, and despite the fact that Martin was obviously trying to avoid confrontation, that when he confronted Martin and his own actions resulted in an altercation and the death of Martin that somehow its all Martin's fault.
REALLY!!?
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three points socafan
1.
tell me how, in your world, a fat man like zimmerman catching up to martin in a foot race? that is what you claiming in the above account (see red bolded statement).
more likely is that what martin friend hear on the call was the initial conversation when zimmerman called out to martin. then smallie tell martin to run (this was in the initial reports from smallie before she hire a lawyer) and martin out run zimmerman. zimmerman start back to his car and martin double back to approach zimmerman and that is when the fight occur.
i agree though, the order of events is critical. however, the account you giving seem less believable than zimmerman's account.
2.
not sure what 911 call yuh listening to. de operator say something to the effect of "it's not necessary for you to" follow martin. that translate to mean it is optional or at your discretion to follow martin. that is not an unequivocal command for zimmerman to stop following martin.
3.
i am not at all concluding that it is "all martin's fault". that is a misrepresentation. take a look at my dialogue with daft trini where i point to the gun laws and the state sharing the blame for this tragedy.
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Just read on Yahoo that Zimmerman's lawyers quit because they have been unable to reach him for some days now.
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Just read on Yahoo that Zimmerman's lawyers quit because they have been unable to reach him for some days now.
Just watched their press conference....the one attorney that did most of the talking, the ex cop....one arrogant bastard boy! Typical (ex) cop.
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Just read on Yahoo that Zimmerman's lawyers quit because they have been unable to reach him for some days now.
Just watched their press conference....the one attorney that did most of the talking, the ex cop....one arrogant bastard boy! Typical (ex) cop.
I just ask Bakes how come they never even meet the fella. Word is he's not even in Florida. The system is in a mess.
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George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_print.html
By Sari Horwitz, Wednesday, April 11, 1:56 PM
Florida special prosecutor Angela Corey plans to announce as early as Wednesday afternoon that she is charging neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, according to a law enforcement official close to the investigation.
It was not immediately clear what charge Zimmerman will face.
Martin, 17 and unarmed, was shot and killed Feb. 26 by Zimmerman, who said he was acting in self-defense. Police in Sanford, Fla., where the shooting took place, did not charge Zimmerman, citing the state’s “stand your ground” law.
Corey told reporters Tuesday night that she would hold a news conference about the case within 72 hours. A news release from her office said the event will be held in Sanford or Jacksonville, Fla.
Benjamin Crump, who is representing the Martin family, said this week that Corey’s office had asked where Trayvon’s parents would be each day this week. They arrived Wednesday in Washington for a civil rights conference organized by the Rev. Al Sharpton, where they are scheduled to speak.
The announcement of a charge against Zimmerman would come a day after Zimmerman’s attorneys withdrew from the case, citing their inability to contact Zimmerman.
Lawyers Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig on Tuesday expressed concern about Zimmerman’s emotional and physical well-being, saying he has taken actions without consulting them. They also said they do not know where Zimmerman is.
“You can stop looking in Florida,” Uhrig told reporters. “Look much further away than that.”
Corey said Monday that she would not bring the case before a grand jury, which was expected to convene this week. She said her decision to forgo the grand jury should not be viewed as a factor in determining whether charges will be filed.
Corey has indicated in recent weeks that she might not need a grand jury to bring charges against Zimmerman.
The lawyers said they stand by their assertions that Zimmerman acted in self-defense when he killed the 17-year-old, who was unarmed, but they acknowledged that they formed their impressions without meeting Zimmerman.
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Being charged is one thing......finding a jury that will find him guilty might be another. In the end, though, the laws of the universe will prevail and george zimmerman will pay for this deed. Just like many others like him. (trust me on dat one, ribbit)
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Being charged is one thing......finding a jury that will find him guilty might be another. In the end, though, the laws of the universe will prevail and george zimmerman will pay for this deed. Just like many others like him. (trust me on dat one, ribbit)
:o
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...can't say enough about the way special Prosecutor Angela Corey presented herself in her press conference. Total class, sensitivity and respect to both sides of this case. Total opposite to zimmerman's two (former) attorneys yesterday. Regardless of the outcome of the trial, she gives the feeling that she and her team will present the best case possible before the jury. That is all that can be asked for (from a legal standpoint) at this point.
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Lewwe take Al Sharpton, the NAACP, and all black people out ot this for a minute...let us say that Trayvonn Martin and yuh bff zimmermann look exactly alike....given all the evidence to date...how the f**k does this whole situation make zimmermann's actions the correct course of action and Trayvonn Martin's the wrong one? Please, explain that to me.....in a manner that REALLY makes sense.
We could say what we want about the Jesse Jackson's, Al Sharpton and the civil rights ambulance chasers. There are many cases which would have been swept under rug if these socalled pests had not kept the fires under the authorities bam-bam to take action. Allyuh honestly think that this case would have proceeded in a professional manner with utmost concern for the Martin family. If we had taken the local sherrif words and actions for granted, Zimmermann would probably walked free. I don't like to scream race! black! white!, etc, etc, but I see it as a necessary evil to get justice done.
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Allyuh see he mugshot? Fella boil down like a piper!
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I am not sure the second degree murder charge would stick. Here is an interesting analysis of the merits of the charge. Perhaps the legal experts on this forum can also weigh in on the issue.
George Zimmerman charged with second-degree murder in Trayvon Martin case
By Toluse Olorunnipa, Erika Bolstad and Frances Robles
frobles@MiamiHerald.com
JACKSONVILLE -- After 45 days, one lawsuit, dozens of rallies, cries from thousands of protesters, more than two million petition signatures and countless media reports, the neighborhood watchman who shot Miami Gardens teenager Trayvon Martin was criminally charged Wednesday, capping a public outcry unmatched in recent memory.
The man who went free the night he shot the 17-year-old unarmed high school junior in a gated community in Sanford now faces the possibility of life in prison.
George Zimmerman, 28, was charged with second-degree murder, a first-degree felony — a far more serious charge than the manslaughter arrest most experts were predicting. The decision to file the charge was made by special prosecutor Angela Corey, the Jacksonville-based state attorney for Duval, Clay and Nassau counties, who vowed to fight a self-defense claim and insisted that she did not bow to public pressure.
Calling Trayvon’s parents “sweet,” she referred to Trayvon for the first time in a way other law enforcement officers so far had not: as a “victim.” When she first met with the boy’s parents, she said, she began her meeting in prayer.
“We did not come to this decision lightly,” said Corey, who was assigned the case by Gov. Rick Scott less than three weeks ago. “We do not prosecute by public pressure or by petition.”
Zimmerman, who turned himself in, is being held without bond and is expected to appear in court Thursday in Seminole County court for a bond hearing.
“Anyone facing a second-degree murder charge is scared,” said Zimmerman’s new attorney, Mark O’Mara. “He’s concerned about getting a fair trial and a fair presentation.”
The charge came a month after the police department in Sanford declined to arrest Zimmerman, saying his claim of self defense was backed up by physical evidence and witness statements. That decision by Sanford Police spawned a national movement that made a martyr of a suspended high school junior whose name is now trademarked and known around the world.
The prosecutor’s decision followed weeks of nationwide protests, which were marked by student walk-outs in South Florida and throngs of marchers wearing hoodies — as Trayvon was wearing the night he died — in cities from New York to Seattle. While for some the case symbolized racial injustice — Trayvon was black; Zimmerman is a white Hispanic — for others it became a glaring example of the media’s rush to judgment and willingness to try a case in the newsroom instead of a courtroom.
A case that galvanized nation also divided it. Gun advocates, white separatist groups and other conservative commentators supported Zimmerman’s right to defend himself and criticized African-American activists, accusing them of sowing racial strife by claiming Trayvon was a victim of racial profiling.
Corey said race played no role in the decision to charge Zimmerman.
“We only know one category as prosecutors, and that’s a ‘V.’ It’s not a ‘B,’ it’s not a ‘W,’ it’s not an ‘H.’ It’s ‘V,’ for victim,” she said. “That’s who we work tirelessly for. And that’s all we know, is justice for our victims.”
But critics say the prosecutor’s zeal to quell critics may have gone too far.
The murder charge is “political prostitution,” said Cheney Mason, the criminal defense attorney who successfully defended last year’s high profile trial of accused child-killer Casey Anthony. “Now I don’t have all the facts — no one does — but you look at what we know of the case, and it looks like the prosecutor bowed to other pressures.”
Former Miami U.S. Attorney Kendall Coffey suggested Corey might not stick with the second-degree murder charge through trial. A jury could, under some circumstances, toss the second-degree murder charge and convict of a lesser charge, such as manslaughter, he said.
To prove Zimmerman was guilty of second-degree murder, Corey will have to show Zimmerman acted with a “depraved mind” when he shot Trayvon. “This is an aggressive charge,” Coffey said. “And there are times when an aggressive charge gives more incentive for the defendant to seek a plea. The vast majority of cases don’t go to trial and end in a plea.”
Zimmerman is still being investigated by the U.S. Department of Justice’s Civil Rights division. In a speech at a conference in Washington, D.C., led by Rev. Al Sharpton, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said a hate crime would be tough to prove.
Trayvon’s parents, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, in Washington for that conference, said they were pleased with the charges.
“They took a look at the evidence and they decided that was the charge,” Fulton said. “We’re not the experts; they’re the experts. So we’re putting our faith in them.”
Her voice shaking, she told reporters all she ever wanted was an arrest.
“I say thank you. Thank you, Lord, thank you, Jesus,” she said. “I just want to speak from my heart to your heart, because a heart has no color. It’s not black, it’s not white, it’s red.”
Sharpton, who used his national television and radio audiences to help rouse the public, insisted that the charges only came after the people hit the streets.
“Had there not been pressure, there would not have been a second look” at the case, he said.
Corey declined to discuss in detail how the investigation was carried out, but her statements shed some light on how the prosecution team reached the decision on a second-degree murder charge. She said the decision was made last week, and prosecutors used the arrest warrant an investigator had sought early in the case.
Her investigators made several trips to the scene of the shooting, retrieving evidence from Sanford police and re-interviewing witnesses in the neighborhood.
“A lot of the witnesses had already made statements in public even before we took over the case,” she said. “A thorough review of all of the statements was done.”
Last month, Corey told The Herald that her investigators would be looking at a wide range of evidence, including the gun used by Zimmerman and the clothes he was wearing the night of the shooting. She said 911 tapes — in which someone is heard screaming for help before the fatal gunshot — would be “critical” and would be analyzed.
The Sanford Police and Zimmerman’s former attorneys had said that when all the evidence was made public — including unedited 911 calls — the decision to release Zimmerman after the shooting would be better understood. But Corey apparently found enough evidence to believe the state’s Stand Your Ground law did not apply in this case.
“If Stand Your Ground becomes an issue, we fight it,” she said.
The controversial law eliminated a citizen’s duty to retreat when faced with the reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm. The controversy that exploded after the shooting has put the future of the hotly debated law in doubt.
“We have to change that law,” said Benjamin Crump, the attorney for Trayvon’s parents. “Think about Trayvon Martin, how this might never have happened had we not had those things in place. We never would have had to go 44 days to start simple justice.”
Trayvon died Feb. 26 after he was returning to the home where he was staying from 7-Eleven, where he bought Skittles and iced tea. While walking back from the store to the townhouse he was visiting at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, Zimmerman, the gated community’s watch captain, spotted him and found him suspicious.
There had been recent burglaries, Trayvon was walking slow, “looking about,” and appeared to be on drugs, Zimmerman told a police operator.
Zimmerman, a married man who worked in the mortgage and insurance industries while studying at Seminole State College, had called police to report a variety of crimes 46 times in eight years. In the past year, he had reported black men looking “suspicious” on four prior occasions.
The watch captain’s four-minute call that night would be played hundreds of times on national media and scrutinized to its finest detail on social networking sites. In it, Zimmerman was heard huffing and puffing as he got out of his truck to tail Trayvon and figure out where he went, because the teen had taken off running.
The police operator told Zimmerman he did not need to follow him, and Zimmerman muttered profanities lamenting how the bad guys “always get away.”
Zimmerman later told police that, after the operator told him not to follow Trayvon, he headed back to his truck and that’s when the teenager came up from behind him. The two exchanged words and Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the face, breaking his nose, Zimmerman’s former attorneys and family have said.
A scuffle ensued, and Zimmerman reached for his licensed Kel Tek 9 mm semiautomatic handgun from the holster on his waist and fired once, hitting Travyon in the chest.
The Sanford Police Department immediately came under fire for its handling of the investigation, as witnesses said detectives performed cursory interviews to support the set of facts they were accepting as true: that Zimmerman had committed a justifiable homicide.
The accounts from witnesses were mixed, although they largely agreed that they all assumed that the person they heard screaming for help was the one who had been shot. Zimmerman claimed those cries were his unanswered calls for help, and Sanford police believed him.
“This matter is now in the hands of the judicial system and I am confident justice will prevail,” Gov. Scott said in a statement Wednesday. “As the process continues, it is critical that we be patient and allow the proceedings to move forward in a fair and transparent manner. I thank State Attorney Angela Corey for her diligence in conducting a thorough investigation. We will all continue to look for answers to the Trayvon Martin tragedy.”
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/11/v-fullstory/2743569/george-zimmerman-charged-with.html#storylink=cpy
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/11/2743569_p2/george-zimmerman-charged-with.html
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The murder charge is “political prostitution,” said Cheney Mason, the criminal defense attorney who successfully defended last year’s high profile trial of accused child-killer Casey Anthony. “Now I don’t have all the facts — no one does — but you look at what we know of the case, and it looks like the prosecutor bowed to other pressures.”
Then shut yuh mudda c**t...
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http://news.yahoo.com/catholic-tv-star-rev-benedict-groeschel-defends-child-145215741--abc-news-topstories.html
A well-known Catholic priest who hosts a weekly religious television show said in an interview this week that child sex abusers are often seduced by teenage boys and should not go to jail on a first offense. But the comments were removed by the website that published them and replaced by an apology from the priest and the site's editors.
The Rev. Benedict Groeschel, 79, who hosts a weekly show on the Catholic television network EWTN, originally made the comments in an interview with the National Catholic Register. He also referred to convicted pedophile Jerry Sandusky as a "poor guy."
"People have this picture in their minds of a person planning to -- a psychopath. But that's not the case. Suppose you have a man having a nervous breakdown, and a youngster comes after him. A lot of the cases, the youngster -- 14, 16, 18 -- is the seducer," Groeschel was quoted as saying in the interview, which is no longer available on the paper's website.
The interview has now been replaced by a statement from Fr. Benedict:
"I apologize for my comments," it said. "I did not intend to blame the victim. A priest (or anyone else) who abuses a minor is always wrong and is always responsible. My mind and my way of expressing myself are not as clear as they used to be. I have spent my life trying to help others the best that I could. I deeply regret any harm I have caused to anyone."
Jeanette R. De Melo, the site's editor in chief, included her own apology for posting the interview.
"Child sexual abuse is never excusable," she wrote. "The editors of the National Catholic Register apologize for publishing without clarification or challenge Father Benedict Groeschel's comments that seem to suggest that the child is somehow responsible for abuse. Nothing could be further from the truth."
The interview, billed as a reflection on the 25 years since Groeschel founded the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal order, covered many topics, but Groeschel's comments on child sexual abuse brought it national attention.
"Well, it's not so hard to see. A kid looking for a father and didn't have his own -- and they won't be planning to get into heavy-duty sex, but almost romantic, embracing, kissing, perhaps sleeping, but not having intercourse or anything like that. I's an understandable thing, and you know where you find it, among other clergy or important people; you look at teachers, attorneys, judges, social workers," Groeschel was quoted as saying.
Quotes from the interview remained posted on websites including the National Catholic Reporter, the Huffington Post, and the Catholic blog Renew America, all of which criticized Groeschel for the remarks.
Tom Roberts of the National Catholic Reporter called the comments "particularly disturbing" because of Groeschel's background in psychology. He received a Ph.D. in psychology from Columbia University.
"(The comments) cannot stand unchallenged," Roberts wrote.
Groeschel could not be reached for comment. Representatives for the National Catholic Register and EWTN did not immediately return calls for comment.
Groeschel had also commented on recently-convicted pedophile Jerry Sandusky, the former Penn State coach convicted of abusing 10 boys over a 15-year period.
"Here's this poor guy -- Sandusky -- it went on for years. Interesting: Why didn't anyone say anything? Apparently, a number of kids knew about it and didn't break the ice. Well, you know, until recent years, people did not register in their minds that it was a crime. It was a moral failure, scandalous; but they didn't think of it in terms of legal things," Groeschel said.
He also said that he did not think priests or lay people should go to jail based on a first offense of sexual behavior with young children.
"At this point, (when) any priest, any clergyman, any social worker, any teacher, any responsible person in society would become involved in a single sexual act -- not necessarily intercourse -- they're done. And I'm inclined to think, on their first offense, they should not go to jail because their intention was not committing a crime."
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Quotes from the interview remained posted on websites including the National Catholic Reporter, the Huffington Post, and the Catholic blog Renew America, all of which criticized Groeschel for the remarks.
Tom Roberts of the National Catholic Reporter called the comments "particularly disturbing" because of Groeschel's background in psychology. He received a Ph.D. in psychology from Columbia University.
"(The comments) cannot stand unchallenged," Roberts wrote.
tt, ah surprise yuh post this - a condemnation of the catholic church AND columbia. daiz where all dem democrats like obama get educated. big schools like penn state and columbia only covering for dese pedos. ah bet dey have plenty more.
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Quotes from the interview remained posted on websites including the National Catholic Reporter, the Huffington Post, and the Catholic blog Renew America, all of which criticized Groeschel for the remarks.
Tom Roberts of the National Catholic Reporter called the comments "particularly disturbing" because of Groeschel's background in psychology. He received a Ph.D. in psychology from Columbia University.
"(The comments) cannot stand unchallenged," Roberts wrote.
[/quot
tt, ah surprise yuh post this - a condemnation of the catholic church AND columbia. daiz where all dem democrats like obama get educated. big schools like penn state and columbia only covering for dese pedos. ah bet dey have plenty more.
Are you really that f**king stupid?
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Quotes from the interview remained posted on websites including the National Catholic Reporter, the Huffington Post, and the Catholic blog Renew America, all of which criticized Groeschel for the remarks.
Tom Roberts of the National Catholic Reporter called the comments "particularly disturbing" because of Groeschel's background in psychology. He received a Ph.D. in psychology from Columbia University.
"(The comments) cannot stand unchallenged," Roberts wrote.
tt, ah surprise yuh post this - a condemnation of the catholic church AND columbia. daiz where all dem democrats like obama get educated. big schools like penn state and columbia only covering for dese pedos. ah bet dey have plenty more.
How does that work because you should look at the demographic most likely to be a pedo and then look at yuh conservative base.
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Quotes from the interview remained posted on websites including the National Catholic Reporter, the Huffington Post, and the Catholic blog Renew America, all of which criticized Groeschel for the remarks.
Tom Roberts of the National Catholic Reporter called the comments "particularly disturbing" because of Groeschel's background in psychology. He received a Ph.D. in psychology from Columbia University.
"(The comments) cannot stand unchallenged," Roberts wrote.
tt, ah surprise yuh post this - a condemnation of the catholic church AND columbia. daiz where all dem democrats like obama get educated. big schools like penn state and columbia only covering for dese pedos. ah bet dey have plenty more.
How does that work because you should look at the demographic most likely to be a pedo and then look at yuh conservative base.
elan, ah looking at the role of institutions in hiding pedos. only recently schools getting busted for covering up de pedos in their upper levels.
@MEP yuh cyah even figure out de quote function. dunce.
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"The second-degree murder trial of George Zimmerman, charged in the killing of unarmed black teenager TrayvonMartin, is tentatively set for June 10, a Florida judge decided on Wednesday"
http://myvoicetv.net/george-zimmerman-trial-date-set/
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Shooting of Florida teen is no Trayvon Martin case, attorney says (http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/28/us/florida-music-shooting/index.html?sr=fbmain)
From Tristan Smith, CNN
updated 3:59 PM EST, Wed November 28, 2012
(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/121127123319-michael-dunn-mug-story-body.jpg)(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/121128041408-jordan-davis-waws-story-top.jpg)
(CNN) -- The attorney for a Florida man who shot at a car of teens over the weekend, killing one, says the incident bears no resemblance to the Trayvon Martin case.
Her client, Michael Dunn, is no "vigilante" but did feel threatened and shot out of "self defense," the attorney said.
"There are no comparisons to the Trayvon Martin situation," said Robin Lemonidis, Dunn's attorney. "He is devastated and horrified by the death of the teen."
Dunn, 45, was denied bond Monday on a murder charge stemming from the weekend shooting in Jacksonville. The violence was sparked by a confrontation about loud music at a gas station, the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office said.
Dunn told authorities that he had asked the teens to turn down the blaring music from their vehicle adjacent to his, as he waited for his girlfriend to return to the car.
He heard threats from the teens, Dunn told police, he felt threatened and thought he saw a gun in the teens' car. He grabbed his gun and fired at least eight shots, authorities said.
Seventeen-year-old Jordan Davis, among the teens, was killed. There were no guns found inside the teens' car, the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office said.
Ron Davis, the victim's father, said he is devastated and doesn't believe the shooting was self defense.
"He did something that there was no defense for," the father said of the suspect.
Ron Davis said his son didn't own any guns, wasn't part of a gang and was a good kid. When Dunn pulled out the gun, the teens' initially thought it was a fake then frantically tried to back up the car before being caught in the gunfire, Ron Davis said.
The father said he talked to two of the teens who were in the car, and they are "really shaken."
Jordan's body will be moved to Atlanta, the home of his mother, on Thursday, before a Saturday funeral.
Some have compared this incident to the Trayvon Martin case, the shooting of an unarmed Florida teen earlier this year that sparked nationwide protests and inflamed public passions over race relations and gun control. Martin's shooting also focused a spotlight on Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, which allows the use of deadly force when a person perceives a threat to safety.
Similar to Trayvon Martin, Davis was 17 and African American.
But Dunn's attorney said her client's action should not be compared to George Zimmerman, the volunteer neighborhood watchman who is charged with second-degree murder in the February 26 shooting death of Martin in Sanford, Florida.
"That's ridiculous. Michael is not a vigilante," the attorney said. "He's a brilliant software developer. It was never his intention to kill anyone."
The attorney said she is contemplating what defense she will use if the case goes to trial.
"Self defense applies because Mr. Dunn was threatened," Lemonidis said. "We can't say what the defense will be at this stage ... but stand your ground is a possibility."
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Yeah I read this earlier and could only shake my head. I wish I could say that I was outraged. The Florida legislature will be under intense pressure now more than ever to change that law. Good luck arguing self-defense though when you squeeze off EIGHT unanswered shots into the car.
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"That's ridiculous. Michael is not a vigilante," the attorney said. "He's a brilliant software developer. It was never his intention to kill anyone."
He just buss eight shells so as NOT to kill them....
Cue Ribbit to rush in and blame the victim
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Hang him!
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Yeah, bcas of course software engineers cyah be vigilantes. (We need a steupse emoticon.)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers#Age_5
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Judge bars evidence of Trayvon Martin drug use from Zimmerman trial
Debra S Nelson says jury cannot hear details of Martin's school suspension and rejects defence's plea to have trial delayed
Jurors in George Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial next month will not be allowed to hear about Trayvon Martin's past use of marijuana, details of his suspension from school or his familiarity with guns, a Florida judge said on Tuesday.
The ruling was issued at an eventful pre-trial hearing in Sanford before judge Debra S Nelson, who also slapped down defence attorney Mark O'Mara's request that the case be delayed by up to six weeks.
It means that Zimmerman, 29, will go on trial as scheduled on June 10, when the former neighbourhood watch leader will deny that he murdered the 17-year-old Martin during a violent confrontation at a gated community in Sanford in February last year.
Nelson seemed in an uncompromising mood as she handed down a series of decisions during today's hearing that will dictate the course of a trial that could last up to six weeks, and could see Zimmerman jailed for at least 25 years if he is convicted.
Evidence released by the defence last week, including text messages and photographs from Martin's mobile phone, which show him smoking, discussing drugs and firearms and being "kicked out" from home by his mother, cannot be brought up in opening statements and will only be admitted later with her approval, she ruled.
State prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda earlier told the court they were "irrelevant", and an attempt to tarnish the reputation of the teenager, who was killed with a single shot to the torso.
Additionally, the jury will not be taken to visit the scene of the shooting at the Retreat at Twin Lakes community; toxicology reports after Martin's death showing traces of marijuana in his body cannot be mentioned; and the state will be allowed to question George Zimmerman's wife, Shellie, who faces a separate perjury trial for lying about the couple's finances at his earlier bail hearing, Nelson said.
"Today was very important because the trial is on track. This family has wanted to have their day in court," Benjamin Crump, the attorney representing the Martin family, told reporters after the hearing.
"The judge went through about 22 motions which she denied. None of the information released last week was relevant [or] admissible. It does not conclude the guilt or innocence of George Zimmerman."
He also said it was "a huge victory" when Zimmerman's lawyers, who insist their client acted in self-defence, waived his right to a pre-trial immunity hearing. Florida's controversial stand-your-ground law allows for the use of deadly force in certain situations.
"It validated what all the protesters said about having the right to have George Zimmerman come to court to face the evidence against him for killing an unarmed teenager," Crump said. "All they wanted was a fair process and the verdict be based on the evidence."
O'Mara had filed a number of motions seeking to admit evidence of Martin's troubled past, which included three suspensions from his Miami high school, discussions of his participation in organised fights and proof he had smoked marijuana.
"The ideas of marijuana use is intertwined with the behaviour on the night which for whatever reason led to the altercation," O'Mara said. "We have a lot of evidence that marijuana use had something to do with the event."
The defence also demanded a judicial inquiry into the conduct of state prosecutors, who, O'Mara said, had deliberately withheld evidence, namely three text messages and three photographs purporting to show "a firearm in someone's hand, a photograph of an underage female and a photograph of drugs."
He called Wesley White, an attorney who resigned from working with the state attorney's office last year, to tesify that he had knowledge that the photographs were not handed over in a timely manner.
"This case is not going to be tried fairly if I still have to try to get, and fight, and find out that there were reports hidden from me. That was out of the blue," O'Mara said.
"My fear is that matters will come up in the trial that I'm not ready for, that were not given to me promptly by the state."
Judge Nelson quickly dismissed his call for a postponement in the trial date.
"The court has provided both sides a lot of hearing time," she said, referring to numerous prior court dates over the last 12 months at which evidence and procedural matters were discussed. "I think that's sufficient time to get all the issues done and heard."
De Rionda also objected to the defence motion. "This case has dragged on long enough," he said.
There will be two further hearings before the trial opens, Nelson said, one on Friday and another on June 6 and 7 at which remaining issues will be ironed out. She has still to rule whether the jury will be sequestered throughout the trial and their anonymity protected.
Zimmerman, who is free on bail, was not present at Tuesday's hearing. His brother Robert said afterwards that his family was deeply affected by the case.
"George is a good, decent and honest man," he said. "George is in a fight for his life, quite literally. We are not a wealthy family but we are rich in honour, we are not a large family but we make up for our small numbers with courage."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/28/trayvon-martin-drug-use-barred
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It was always going to be a long shot to get those bits of "evidence" admitted... but stranger things have happened. The judge made the correct ruling in my opinion, as none of that has any bearing on the inquiry as to what happened that night between the two. The judge is also correct to dismiss the call for an inquiry as to the conduct of the prosecution, they are only obligated to turn over evidence tending to show the defendant's innocence (aka "Brady" material). The purported photos don't tend to show that. What all of these motions are really doing is setting up his appeal... not that that strategy is likely to prevail either.
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this trial reminds me of the oj simpson trial in the early 90s. iz dead certain the martin supporters will riot if zimmerman is freed. in this case, the appearance of justice has become more important even than justice itself.
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this trial reminds me of the oj simpson trial in the early 90s. iz dead certain the martin supporters will riot if zimmerman is freed. in this case, the appearance of justice has become more important even than justice itself.
I see yuh still at it
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I hope this piece of shite doesn't get tuh walk.
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That f**ker get tuh walk!
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I going and shoot a man on d side walk brb. He look threatening and I fear for my life.
This deserve a riot like LA
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Florida, is the place tuh get away with murder! He money will run out soon enough, lets see what he does for security after that! He showed no remorse about taking a life!
Young black people need tuh wise up in this country, and stop worshipping the thug life and trying tuh imitate and worship these entertainers who contributing nothing positive to this world. But making money off their ignorance and need for material things. Wake the hell up and start respecting yourselves/each other, educate yourself and start contributing something meaningful to this life.
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robert zimmerman need to shut his cyat and go live in a hole with his brother.
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That judge Nelsen wanted a guilty verdict bad but jury jumbie that move.
Giggsy good point - thug life lead to thug death.
Ah see jesse jackson counselling restraint. He know what kind of irrational dunces are in his flock.
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That judge Nelsen wanted a guilty verdict bad but jury jumbie that move.
Giggsy good point - thug life lead to thug death.
Ah see jesse jackson counselling restraint. He know what kind of irrational dunces are in his flock.
Just to be clear-my statements were not accusing Trayvon of being a thug or referring to anything involving him. It is about black youths, who need to realize that their priorities are messed up. And as a result they are more concerned about copying people who are helping to make them irrelevant.
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In my (mostly) white neighbourhood, people were setting off fireworks. Welcome to Texas. >:(
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That judge Nelsen wanted a guilty verdict bad but jury jumbie that move.
Giggsy good point - thug life lead to thug death.
Ah see jesse jackson counselling restraint. He know what kind of irrational dunces are in his flock.
Just to be clear-my statements were not accusing Trayvon of being a thug or referring to anything involving him. It is about black youths, who need to realize that their priorities are messed up. And as a result they are more concerned about copying people who are helping to make them irrelevant.
it is not only black youths...it is people in general who try to follow "celebrities"...that being said black youths are more prone to having messed up priorities.
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That judge Nelsen wanted a guilty verdict bad but jury jumbie that move.
Giggsy good point - thug life lead to thug death.
Ah see jesse jackson counselling restraint. He know what kind of irrational dunces are in his flock.
Just to be clear-my statements were not accusing Trayvon of being a thug or referring to anything involving him. It is about black youths, who need to realize that their priorities are messed up. And as a result they are more concerned about copying people who are helping to make them irrelevant.
it is not only black youths...it is people in general who try to follow "celebrities"...that being said black youths are more prone to having messed up priorities.
I don't agree that black youths are more prone to having messed up priorities. My concerns are that it seems, that most of our black youths fail to understand that in their efforts to "empower" themselves they are making choices that continue some of the negative stereotypes about them. And also they continue to devalue themselves in the process; eg, calling each other the n-word. They are not making choices that lift them beyond but continue to oppress and depress. Who you think will continue to be behind? And when or how will they catch up and or move ahead?
My 2cents :beermug:.
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That judge Nelsen wanted a guilty verdict bad but jury jumbie that move.
Giggsy good point - thug life lead to thug death.
Ah see jesse jackson counselling restraint. He know what kind of irrational dunces are in his flock.
ribbit you real good, boy!
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Trayvon parents need to file a wrongful death suit and get a claim to every dollar Zimmerman make for the rest of his life. If Nicole and de next fella parents could do it to OJ, Trayvon parents need to follow-up. If they won't put him in real jail, put him in a financial jail.
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That judge Nelsen wanted a guilty verdict bad but jury jumbie that move.
Giggsy good point - thug life lead to thug death.
Ah see jesse jackson counselling restraint. He know what kind of irrational dunces are in his flock.
I have been noticing your comments for a while now, a combination of all your comments just solidifies that you is a f*cking racist.
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That judge Nelsen wanted a guilty verdict bad but jury jumbie that move.
Giggsy good point - thug life lead to thug death.
Ah see jesse jackson counselling restraint. He know what kind of irrational dunces are in his flock.
I have been noticing your comments for a while now, a combination of all your comments just solidifies that you is a f*cking racist.
He's not a racist, he's ah self loathing n!gger!!! :pissedoff: forgive meh bakes and mods, but ah couldn't help meh self.
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Hahahaha
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Trayvon parents need to file a wrongful death suit and get a claim to every dollar Zimmerman make for the rest of his life. If Nicole and de next fella parents could do it to OJ, Trayvon parents need to follow-up. If they won't put him in real jail, put him in a financial jail.
exactly...i sorry to say this eh but now i know how white pl feel when oj got off
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Florida, is the place tuh get away with murder! He money will run out soon enough, lets see what he does for security after that! He showed no remorse about taking a life!
Young black people need tuh wise up in this country, and stop worshipping the thug life and trying tuh imitate and worship these entertainers who contributing nothing positive to this world. But making money off their ignorance and need for material things. Wake the hell up and start respecting yourselves/each other, educate yourself and start contributing something meaningful to this life.
Very noble gesture, but easier said than done.
i believe most progressive black ppl wishes and hopes for the same, but the dynamic that fuels this behavior is harder to kill than trichinosis.
no disrespect to black women, but they are the ones raising these failing young ppl, and until the black woman stands up and claim responsibility and make better decisions as to the men they chose to pro create with then this will not go away any time soon.
they are the ones with the power to chose, not the man, ah man pursues and a woman accepts or rejects 95% of the time, in other words she wields the sword in most cases.
i am not exonerating the black man or his role in this debacle, he has been extremely negligent and half arse throughout our sojourn especially here in the african diaspora, but he could never stand a shot @ father hood if the woman did not willingly open her legs and allow him to buss up in her even if she thought the guy was all that and more.
women are the ones who are struck with the babies, they are the ones who have to raise the kids, and i believe if they had any smarts they would chose wisely who they allow to sex them up raw especially in a day with more contraceptives than ever.
i could understand if ah man is worthless but ah broad is intrigued and still wants to have sex, even raw sex with the critter, but protect your self and get on the pill, bc yuh done know that this man is bad news and is not family raring material, and if you show up prenant he will not stick around or provide proper guidance for your children.
raising productive young ppl is not rocket science, there needs to be two willing participants who would die first before leaving their off springs to run wild, free and unbridled, regardless of the relationship, whether they stay together or are separated, they must work together to keep their kids in line.
black women need to up the ante and stop letting scrubs breed them for crying out loud! but then again most of these black women are themselves scrubs, and yuh done know scrub on scrub = scrubs in the making.
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Trayvon parents need to file a wrongful death suit and get a claim to every dollar Zimmerman make for the rest of his life. If Nicole and de next fella parents could do it to OJ, Trayvon parents need to follow-up. If they won't put him in real jail, put him in a financial jail.
exactly...i sorry to say this eh but now i know how white pl feel when oj got off
Pleaseeee, white ppl has been killing black ppl in this country like dogs for centuries even up to this very day, how white ppl feel when OJ got off??
ah wonder how they felt when the cops in rodney king beating got off, the cops with patrick doressman, the cops with usman zongo, the cops with ahmadu diallo, the cops with ellenor bumpers, the cops that killed the pensioner in yonkers recently kicking down his door and executing the man in his own home!
the cops in anthony biess murder, sean bell's murder, bernard geuzt who shot four unarmed men in the subway. boy right now, fack how white ppl feel yes, i feel terrible! :pissedoff:
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Obama Files Federal Charges Against George Zimmerman Following Acquittal in Shooting Murder of Trayvon Martin
http://nationalreport.net/obama-files-federal-charges-against-george-zimmerman-following-acquittal-in-shooting-murder-of-trayvon-martin/.
Just when we thought the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case was over after Zimmerman’s acquittal, the Obama Administration has taken the steps needed to file federal charges, thus sidestepping the well established double jeopardy, against Zimmerman. Unidentified sources within the Administration have confirmed that Obama, and Justice Eric Holder at the Department of Justice have filed charges against Zimmerman in the Federal Court system.
As recently written by Debbie Schlussel, “Double jeopardy is a misunderstood concept in America. It only means you can’t be tried twice for the same crime in the SAME COURT. In fact, liberal Justice Department officials–and the American Presidents who direct them–often make sure that Americans are repeatedly charged for crimes of which they’ve already been acquitted, by charging them with new “crimes” for the same crime, such as “violating” the alleged victim’s civil rights.”
At approximately 10:01 pm EST this evening Judge Debra Nelson (pictured right) announced that the all women jury had found Zimmerman not guilty of fatally shooting and killing the 17-year old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, FL, just over one year ago.
The case has received national attention and nearly wall-to-wall coverage on all mainstream media outlets. While Al Sharpton and the entire staff at MSNBC has advocated heavily for a guilty verdict, we on the right have been praying for an acquittal for Zimmerman who was simply exercising his right to “Stand your Ground” (a Florida statute that apparently allows individuals to follow, track, then attack young Black youth before shooting them dead if feeling at all threatened throughout the process).
obama-and-Trayvon-MartinObama has actively used his influence throughout the case (think “If I had a son he would look like Trayvon”). Earlier this week, multiple sources, including Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the entire right wing, has reported on the involvement of the Federal Government in spending millions of dollars in support of anti-Zimmerman protests (race riots). According to Fox News, ” The Community Relations Service (CRS), a unit of DOJ, reported expenses related to its deployment in Sanford to help manage protests between March and April 2012, according to documents obtained by the watchdog group Judicial Watch.”
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Good
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Obama Files Federal Charges Against George Zimmerman Following Acquittal in Shooting Murder of Trayvon Martin
http://nationalreport.net/obama-files-federal-charges-against-george-zimmerman-following-acquittal-in-shooting-murder-of-trayvon-martin/.
Just when we thought the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case was over after Zimmerman’s acquittal, the Obama Administration has taken the steps needed to file federal charges, thus sidestepping the well established double jeopardy, against Zimmerman. Unidentified sources within the Administration have confirmed that Obama, and Justice Eric Holder at the Department of Justice have filed charges against Zimmerman in the Federal Court system.
As recently written by Debbie Schlussel, “Double jeopardy is a misunderstood concept in America. It only means you can’t be tried twice for the same crime in the SAME COURT. In fact, liberal Justice Department officials–and the American Presidents who direct them–often make sure that Americans are repeatedly charged for crimes of which they’ve already been acquitted, by charging them with new “crimes” for the same crime, such as “violating” the alleged victim’s civil rights.”
At approximately 10:01 pm EST this evening Judge Debra Nelson (pictured right) announced that the all women jury had found Zimmerman not guilty of fatally shooting and killing the 17-year old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, FL, just over one year ago.
The case has received national attention and nearly wall-to-wall coverage on all mainstream media outlets. While Al Sharpton and the entire staff at MSNBC has advocated heavily for a guilty verdict, we on the right have been praying for an acquittal for Zimmerman who was simply exercising his right to “Stand your Ground” (a Florida statute that apparently allows individuals to follow, track, then attack young Black youth before shooting them dead if feeling at all threatened throughout the process).
obama-and-Trayvon-MartinObama has actively used his influence throughout the case (think “If I had a son he would look like Trayvon”). Earlier this week, multiple sources, including Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the entire right wing, has reported on the involvement of the Federal Government in spending millions of dollars in support of anti-Zimmerman protests (race riots). According to Fox News, ” The Community Relations Service (CRS), a unit of DOJ, reported expenses related to its deployment in Sanford to help manage protests between March and April 2012, according to documents obtained by the watchdog group Judicial Watch.”
This "report" is nonsense.
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http://www.youtube.com/v/WXGgudMZjqw
==
"Stop raising preachers and rappers."
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Obama Files Federal Charges Against George Zimmerman Following Acquittal in Shooting Murder of Trayvon Martin
http://nationalreport.net/obama-files-federal-charges-against-george-zimmerman-following-acquittal-in-shooting-murder-of-trayvon-martin/.
Just when we thought the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case was over after Zimmerman’s acquittal, the Obama Administration has taken the steps needed to file federal charges, thus sidestepping the well established double jeopardy, against Zimmerman. Unidentified sources within the Administration have confirmed that Obama, and Justice Eric Holder at the Department of Justice have filed charges against Zimmerman in the Federal Court system.
As recently written by Debbie Schlussel, “Double jeopardy is a misunderstood concept in America. It only means you can’t be tried twice for the same crime in the SAME COURT. In fact, liberal Justice Department officials–and the American Presidents who direct them–often make sure that Americans are repeatedly charged for crimes of which they’ve already been acquitted, by charging them with new “crimes” for the same crime, such as “violating” the alleged victim’s civil rights.”
At approximately 10:01 pm EST this evening Judge Debra Nelson (pictured right) announced that the all women jury had found Zimmerman not guilty of fatally shooting and killing the 17-year old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, FL, just over one year ago.
The case has received national attention and nearly wall-to-wall coverage on all mainstream media outlets. While Al Sharpton and the entire staff at MSNBC has advocated heavily for a guilty verdict, we on the right have been praying for an acquittal for Zimmerman who was simply exercising his right to “Stand your Ground” (a Florida statute that apparently allows individuals to follow, track, then attack young Black youth before shooting them dead if feeling at all threatened throughout the process).
obama-and-Trayvon-MartinObama has actively used his influence throughout the case (think “If I had a son he would look like Trayvon”). Earlier this week, multiple sources, including Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and the entire right wing, has reported on the involvement of the Federal Government in spending millions of dollars in support of anti-Zimmerman protests (race riots). According to Fox News, ” The Community Relations Service (CRS), a unit of DOJ, reported expenses related to its deployment in Sanford to help manage protests between March and April 2012, according to documents obtained by the watchdog group Judicial Watch.”
This "report" is nonsense.
bakes, the writer of that article graduate from the same school as you. yuh know him?
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bakes, the writer of that article graduate from the same school as you. yuh know him?
What school is that... how tuh ride yuh mother? Nah, I didn't go to school dey. And don't try and assume too much either, yuh only making yuhself look like ah ass, wait... never mind.
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bakes, the writer of that article graduate from the same school as you. yuh know him?
What school is that... how tuh ride yuh mother? Nah, I didn't go to school dey. And don't try and assume too much either, yuh only making yuhself look like ah ass, wait... never mind.
de art to picong is to make it look like yuh eh trying but every word yuh type does be sweating! doh try so hard - seriously go back and read some of TT's posts for a primer.
georgetown is a sh*t school ent.
That judge Nelsen wanted a guilty verdict bad but jury jumbie that move.
Giggsy good point - thug life lead to thug death.
Ah see jesse jackson counselling restraint. He know what kind of irrational dunces are in his flock.
Just to be clear-my statements were not accusing Trayvon of being a thug or referring to anything involving him. It is about black youths, who need to realize that their priorities are messed up. And as a result they are more concerned about copying people who are helping to make them irrelevant.
sense.
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Why everyone's talking about Marissa Alexander
By Amanda Sloane
updated 4:37 PM EDT, Mon July 15, 2013
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07/15/marissa-alexander-stand-your-ground-george-zimmerman
In the wake of George Zimmerman’s not guilty verdict in the death of Trayvon Martin, another name started to trend Monday on the Internet: Marissa Alexander.
The Jacksonville, Florida, woman tried to use a "Stand Your Ground" defense in 2012, but was later convicted of three counts of aggravated assault.
The biggest question people have as they continue to share Alexander’s story is: Why was this mother of three sentenced to 20 years in prison while Zimmerman walked free?
Alexander said her husband, Rico Gray, tried to strangle her on August 1, 2010, after reading text messages she had sent her ex-husband. She said she escaped his grip and, instead of leaving out the front door, went into the garage to get into her car. But in the confusion of the fight, Alexander said she forgot her keys.
"I knew I had to protect myself," Alexander told CNN in a 2012 interview. "I could not fight him. He was 100 pounds more than me. I grabbed my weapon at that point."
Gray saw the weapon at his wife’s side when she returned, according to Alexander, and continued to threaten her life. That’s when she said she decided to fire a warning shot.
"I believe when he threatened to kill me, that's what he was absolutely going to do,” said Alexander. “That's what he intended to do. Had I not discharged my weapon at that point, I would not be here."
Gray had his two children with him when Alexander fired a shot into the wall but no one was killed or even injured.
In a deposition with the State Attorney’s office, Gray even backed up his wife’s story.
"If my kids weren't there, I knew I probably would have tried to take the gun from her," Gray said. "If my kids wouldn't have been there, I probably would have put my hand on her." When Alexander's defense attorney asked him what he meant by "put my hand on her," Gray replied, "probably hit her. I got five baby mammas and I put my hands on every last one of them except for one."
But in a hearing to dismiss Alexander’s case under the “Stand Your Ground” law, Gray changed his story, saying he lied to protect his wife.
"I begged and pleaded for my life when she had the gun,” Gray said.
The judge refused to grant Alexander immunity under the "Stand Your Ground" law. Alexander also rejected a plea deal of three years in prison, opting instead to take her case in front of jurors. They found her guilty in just 12 minutes.
Under Florida’s 10-20-life law, Alexander was sentenced to a mandatory 20 years behind bars because she was convicted of aggravated assault where a firearm was discharged.
Zimmerman, on the other hand, was found not guilty of second-degree manslaughter by a jury of six women. It took them a little more than 16 hours to render the verdict that set Zimmerman free.
Zimmerman never went before a judge, like Alexander, asking for immunity under Florida's "Stand Your Ground" laws. The former neighborhood watch captain went straight to trial, instead, where he was charged in the fatal shooting of Martin in Sanford, Florida, on February 26, 2012. Martin was walking through Zimmerman’s neighborhood that night when Zimmerman saw him and told police that he looked suspicious. The two got into an altercation, and Zimmerman said he was forced to draw his gun and shoot Martin in self-defense.
Protests were held around the country, calling for Zimmerman’s arrest for Martin’s death. Zimmerman was eventually charged with second-degree murder in April of 2012. The case has reinvigorated national conversations about race, racial profiling and self-defense laws.
And now the question on many people’s minds -- including Alexander's -- is why a claim of self-defense failed Alexander but worked for Zimmerman.
"Other defendants have used it. What's so different about my situation that it doesn't apply to me?" Alexander asked.
Syndicated columnist Roland Martin says, however, it’s not controversial self-defense laws that are to blame in Alexander’s case. In an opinion piece for CNN, Roland pointed his finger at Florida’s mandatory minimum sentences.
“Did the bullet hit the children? No. Did Alexander point the gun at her husband and hit him? No. She simply fired a warning shot, and according to Florida's shameful law, that's enough for a minimum 20-year sentence,” Roland wrote. “Florida elected officials and residents should be ashamed of this law and do all they can to change it.”
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I eh lying rabbit, sometime i does feel tuh kill you breds, seriously. i believe if we ever meet i might not be able to control myself serious ting . take it how yuh want.
tell me you smarter than that. death threat on the people interweb
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Lol death threats now. This is a first hahaha
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These jurors were racist , i know from start these jurors was racist, the reason it took a little long for them to finish, they were trying to convince the black Hispanic to say Not Guilty. at first they acted as if they weren't taking side but the white jurors already made up their mind. these white jurors are from the same community and they normally vote conservative, i suspected this along time ago, even a baby knows Zimmerman has to be guilty of something.
http://twitchy.com/2013/07/15/fuel-for-the-fire-viewers-furious-as-zimmerman-juror-makes-cnn-appearance/
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I eh lying rabbit, sometime i does feel tuh kill you breds, seriously. i believe if we ever meet i might not be able to control myself serious ting . take it how yuh want.
Nah man JC, you're better than that....keep it civil fellas, keep it civil.
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Now you see why you should avoid NOT doing jury duty.
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Now you see why you should avoid NOT doing jury duty.
Agreed! Been saying this all day. Black folks LOVE celebrate how they lie and get out ah jury duty... den want to bitch and moan about the jury not being made up of their "peers".
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de art to picong is to make it look like yuh eh trying but every word yuh type does be sweating! doh try so hard - seriously go back and read some of TT's posts for a primer.
georgetown is a sh*t school ent.
I dunno which more pathetic... you or them simple-ass kindergarten mind tricks yuh trying. Keep fishing... it kinda entertaining.
I eh lying rabbit, sometime i does feel tuh kill you breds, seriously. i believe if we ever meet i might not be able to control myself serious ting . take it how yuh want.
Ribbit fancy heself ah wind-up artist... doh pay that attention whore no mind.
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I hate when incidents like these happen and stations like BET etc try to appear informed and capable of carrying on an educated discussion when they themselves have allowed the black community to be "dumbed down" just to make a few extra dollars. One second they talking about the case and the next second they calling all these rappers who have gun lyrics to ask them for their opinion. Steupssss. I hate that f**king station with a passion.
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These jurors were racist , i know from start these jurors was racist, the reason it took a little long for them to finish, they were trying to convince the black Hispanic to say Not Guilty. at first they acted as if they weren't taking side but the white jurors already made up their mind. these white jurors are from the same community and they normally vote conservative, i suspected this along time ago, even a baby knows Zimmerman has to be guilty of something.
http://twitchy.com/2013/07/15/fuel-for-the-fire-viewers-furious-as-zimmerman-juror-makes-cnn-appearance/
Thats all you gotta say .
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When TI got caught with an arsenal of weapons where were the leaders of the black community expressing outrage and disbelief? Instead we had a "free TI" movement. Black on black crime occurring everyday. As much as I'm sadden by this boy's death, why do they feel the need to have Zimmerman's head on a platter? What about the other people who caught stray bullets from gang warfare. What about all the other blacks who neglect jury duty and also refuse to cooperate with law enforcement when black on black crime occur. It's the same thing with the N word. It's ok for a black person to say it but once a white person says it they ready to grab at their throat. Mental Slavery
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When TI got caught with an arsenal of weapons where were the leaders of the black community expressing outrage and disbelief? Instead we had a "free TI" movement. Black on black crime occurring everyday. As much as I'm sadden by this boy's death, why do they feel the need to have Zimmerman's head on a platter? What about the other people who caught stray bullets from gang warfare. What about all the other blacks who neglect jury duty and also refuse to cooperate with law enforcement when black on black crime occur. It's the same thing with the N word. It's ok for a black person to say it but once a white person says it they ready to grab at their throat. Mental Slavery
Serious talk dey congo, charity begins @ home i always say.
too much hypocrisy from the black community and their so called leaders, they don't ever call their won to account, but always quick to cry foul like they don't know that the system foul a long while now.
ah bunch of reactionary mdfkrs is what they are, they never take in front until in front take them.
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I hate when incidents like these happen and stations like BET etc try to appear informed and capable of carrying on an educated discussion when they themselves have allowed the black community to be "dumbed down" just to make a few extra dollars. One second they talking about the case and the next second they calling all these rappers who have gun lyrics to ask them for their opinion. Steupssss. I hate that f**king station with a passion.
Point taken. I have meh issues with BET, but they have as much right as any boob tube network in this country to try to influence their viewers. CNN and Fox feel they are the only networks who "inform" the people. I say otherwise. I am a gun law proponent, but what wrong with rappers having guns. Tea party members with guns are more civilized?
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Now you see why you should avoid NOT doing jury duty.
Agreed! Been saying this all day. Black folks LOVE celebrate how they lie and get out ah jury duty... den want to bitch and moan about the jury not being made up of their "peers".
Bakes, I heard a guy on CNN or NPR brought up that issue. I think he said that Sandford maybe 15/20 % Black and he is almost sure most that have not done any jury duty. He said if Blacks exercise their rights to jury duty as their civil rights they would be able to be in the room making decisions to affect cases like these. And not limited to incidents involving Blacks, but Americans on a whole.
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But what about the Black lady who was dismissed as a juror because one of her friends was involved in the protests?
We don't know how many other Black jurors were dismissed...
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===> We are not Trayvon Martin (http://wearenottrayvonmartin.com/)
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I eh lying rabbit, sometime i does feel tuh kill you breds, seriously. i believe if we ever meet i might not be able to control myself serious ting . take it how yuh want.
so your solution is some more black-on-black violence. breds, i doh get you and you doh get me.
as soon as obama stick his 4king nose into this, he poison that jury. he shoulda never say nothing and zimmerman woulda get a manslaughter charge as sure anything. nothing sure to get a redneck back up then some words from that c*nt in the white house. he make the same mistake as bush did with schiavo. obama think he still back in 2009 when people liked him. like rza say he need to snap outta that 4king dream.
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I eh lying rabbit, sometime i does feel tuh kill you breds, seriously. i believe if we ever meet i might not be able to control myself serious ting . take it how yuh want.
so your solution is some more black-on-black violence. breds, i doh get you and you doh get me.
as soon as obama stick his 4king nose into this, he poison that jury. he shoulda never say nothing and zimmerman woulda get a manslaughter charge as sure anything. nothing sure to get a redneck back up then some words from that c*nt in the white house. he make the same mistake as bush did with schiavo. obama think he still back in 2009 when people liked him. like rza say he need to snap outta that 4king dream.
Why Obama can't say anything. He poison what jury! You talking bunkers!
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I eh lying rabbit, sometime i does feel tuh kill you breds, seriously. i believe if we ever meet i might not be able to control myself serious ting . take it how yuh want.
Nah man JC, you're better than that....keep it civil fellas, keep it civil.
yeah fadda u need to change ur name for real...somethng like "bad like yaz" or "just cool x"
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When TI got caught with an arsenal of weapons where were the leaders of the black community expressing outrage and disbelief? Instead we had a "free TI" movement. Black on black crime occurring everyday. As much as I'm sadden by this boy's death, why do they feel the need to have Zimmerman's head on a platter? What about the other people who caught stray bullets from gang warfare. What about all the other blacks who neglect jury duty and also refuse to cooperate with law enforcement when black on black crime occur. It's the same thing with the N word. It's ok for a black person to say it but once a white person says it they ready to grab at their throat. Mental Slavery
Stop talking in yuh ass. TI had a "arsenal" of weapons that were part of a collection, including antique guns... he wasn't out on the streets playing Rambo with it. He was arrested, sentenced and did his time. What de ass else yuh want? You eh fed up talk shit on this forum for one poster? First the shit talk about the coup when yuh clearly didn't know what de f**k yuh talking bout... now yuh doh understand why they "want Zimmerman head on a platter"?? You comparing stray f**king bullet to a man stalking and murdering an unarmed teenager ON PURPOSE. Get tuh f**k out ah here.
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What f**king collection you talking about? The man got caught trying to buy some machine guns with silencers from a federal agent. He himself confessed that he began stockpiling weapons after receiving death threats. It's admirable that he served his time but the black community still picked up for him and other rappers caught in similar circumstances. Now all of a sudden the black community wants to talk about gun control? The majority of gun crime is done by black people possessing illegal firearms. Had Zimmerman been a middle aged black man Trayvon Martin would have been easily and successfully painted as a delinquent youth. This case would not have made it past local attention. It is a circus paraded for the world to see and another way to keep the people divided and race relations low. The media playing everyone against each other just for a couple of dollars and people biting that chain up.
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George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin, Al Sharpton: If one is a racist they all are!!
http://www.examiner.com/article/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-al-sharpton-if-one-is-a-racist-they-all-are
If George Zimmerman was a racist for telling a 911 dispatcher that he believed a suspicious black male was prowling his neighborhood with questionable motives, then the jury that acquitted him must be racist for not seeing through the facts of the case, and Trayvon Martin was a racist for calling Zimmerman a "creepy a-- cracker."
Rev. Al Sharpton is encouraging racial tensions--not trying to reduce them as one might expect a man of God to do--by advocating people hold vigils around the country this weekend in response to his dislike of the jury's 'not guilty' verdict in the Trayvon Martin shooting.
Racism isn't defined by being leery of someone prowling your neighborhood at night when a rash of burglaries have occurred; that's common sense. And racism isn't defined by choosing to acquit someone you believe the facts show to be innocent of the charges.
Calling someone a "creepy a-- cracker" doesn't necessarily make someone a racist either, just like being upset that these "a--holes always get away" doesn't mean someone is a racist.
A Washington Post opinion writer named Richard Cohen said on July 15 that he was personally tired of being called a racist just because he recognizes the reality of urban crime. Cohen uses statistics to support his position, specifically those from the Crime and Enforcement Activity of New York City.
According to that report, blacks represent one-fourth of the population, but in three-fourths of the shooting cases in the city they are the suspects being sought in each case. And it isn't out of a racial bias that they are the ones being hunted for the crimes; it is born out of the facts of the case.
In Florida, where Trayvon Martin was shot, the state court's judge refused to allow the jury to hear any evidence about the violent tendencies of the dead teen as the jurors contemplated George Zimmerman's fate. Yet a propensity to fight his peers did play a role in his obvious willingness to take on a Hispanic adult male.
Yet Al Sharpton thinks that racism is still to blame for a 'not guilty' verdict in the case, and that Trayvon's fighting tendencies couldn't possibly have been influencing the youth to stay when he should have fled a dangerous scene. And that's why he is leading the charge to hold vigils around the country this weekend, in protest, according to the Town Hall's July 15 report.
Sharpton thinks holding vigils around the country this weekend is somehow the way to reduce the racial tensions in this country following a 'not guilty' verdict handed down by an unbiased court.
But seeking to look for a racism angle as an explanation for a not guilty verdict in the Zimmerman trial (or any other)--just because someone disagrees with a well-reasoned verdict--is not really a reason to stoke racism tensions any more.
And that's why Katie Pavlich of the Town Hall thinks Sharpton may be using this case to keep himself relevant with the African American community, and as a media figure in his role as an MSNBC host. And so racism may not be the issue at all.
But if it is, shouldn't the Rev. Sharpton be using his time and resources to encourage youth like Trayvon not to develop their own racism attitudes against others, attitudes that lead them to call Hispanics and whites "creepy a-- crackers"?
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George Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin, Al Sharpton: If one is a racist they all are!!
http://www.examiner.com/article/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-al-sharpton-if-one-is-a-racist-they-all-are
If George Zimmerman was a racist for telling a 911 dispatcher that he believed a suspicious black male was prowling his neighborhood with questionable motives, then the jury that acquitted him must be racist for not seeing through the facts of the case, and Trayvon Martin was a racist for calling Zimmerman a "creepy a-- cracker."
Rev. Al Sharpton is encouraging racial tensions--not trying to reduce them as one might expect a man of God to do--by advocating people hold vigils around the country this weekend in response to his dislike of the jury's 'not guilty' verdict in the Trayvon Martin shooting.
Racism isn't defined by being leery of someone prowling your neighborhood at night when a rash of burglaries have occurred; that's common sense. And racism isn't defined by choosing to acquit someone you believe the facts show to be innocent of the charges.
Calling someone a "creepy a-- cracker" doesn't necessarily make someone a racist either, just like being upset that these "a--holes always get away" doesn't mean someone is a racist.
A Washington Post opinion writer named Richard Cohen said on July 15 that he was personally tired of being called a racist just because he recognizes the reality of urban crime. Cohen uses statistics to support his position, specifically those from the Crime and Enforcement Activity of New York City.
According to that report, blacks represent one-fourth of the population, but in three-fourths of the shooting cases in the city they are the suspects being sought in each case. And it isn't out of a racial bias that they are the ones being hunted for the crimes; it is born out of the facts of the case.
In Florida, where Trayvon Martin was shot, the state court's judge refused to allow the jury to hear any evidence about the violent tendencies of the dead teen as the jurors contemplated George Zimmerman's fate. Yet a propensity to fight his peers did play a role in his obvious willingness to take on a Hispanic adult male.
Yet Al Sharpton thinks that racism is still to blame for a 'not guilty' verdict in the case, and that Trayvon's fighting tendencies couldn't possibly have been influencing the youth to stay when he should have fled a dangerous scene. And that's why he is leading the charge to hold vigils around the country this weekend, in protest, according to the Town Hall's July 15 report.
Sharpton thinks holding vigils around the country this weekend is somehow the way to reduce the racial tensions in this country following a 'not guilty' verdict handed down by an unbiased court.
But seeking to look for a racism angle as an explanation for a not guilty verdict in the Zimmerman trial (or any other)--just because someone disagrees with a well-reasoned verdict--is not really a reason to stoke racism tensions any more.
And that's why Katie Pavlich of the Town Hall thinks Sharpton may be using this case to keep himself relevant with the African American community, and as a media figure in his role as an MSNBC host. And so racism may not be the issue at all.
But if it is, shouldn't the Rev. Sharpton be using his time and resources to encourage youth like Trayvon not to develop their own racism attitudes against others, attitudes that lead them to call Hispanics and whites "creepy a-- crackers"?
Sh!t article! who wrote this, rush limbaugh?? :puking:
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Why everyone's talking about Marissa Alexander
By Amanda Sloane
updated 4:37 PM EDT, Mon July 15, 2013
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07/15/marissa-alexander-stand-your-ground-george-zimmerman
In the wake of George Zimmerman’s not guilty verdict in the death of Trayvon Martin, another name started to trend Monday on the Internet: Marissa Alexander.
The Jacksonville, Florida, woman tried to use a "Stand Your Ground" defense in 2012, but was later convicted of three counts of aggravated assault.
The biggest question people have as they continue to share Alexander’s story is: Why was this mother of three sentenced to 20 years in prison while Zimmerman walked free?
Alexander said her husband, Rico Gray, tried to strangle her on August 1, 2010, after reading text messages she had sent her ex-husband. She said she escaped his grip and, instead of leaving out the front door, went into the garage to get into her car. But in the confusion of the fight, Alexander said she forgot her keys.
"I knew I had to protect myself," Alexander told CNN in a 2012 interview. "I could not fight him. He was 100 pounds more than me. I grabbed my weapon at that point."
Gray saw the weapon at his wife’s side when she returned, according to Alexander, and continued to threaten her life. That’s when she said she decided to fire a warning shot.
"I believe when he threatened to kill me, that's what he was absolutely going to do,” said Alexander. “That's what he intended to do. Had I not discharged my weapon at that point, I would not be here."
Gray had his two children with him when Alexander fired a shot into the wall but no one was killed or even injured.
In a deposition with the State Attorney’s office, Gray even backed up his wife’s story.
"If my kids weren't there, I knew I probably would have tried to take the gun from her," Gray said. "If my kids wouldn't have been there, I probably would have put my hand on her." When Alexander's defense attorney asked him what he meant by "put my hand on her," Gray replied, "probably hit her. I got five baby mammas and I put my hands on every last one of them except for one."
But in a hearing to dismiss Alexander’s case under the “Stand Your Ground” law, Gray changed his story, saying he lied to protect his wife.
"I begged and pleaded for my life when she had the gun,” Gray said.
The judge refused to grant Alexander immunity under the "Stand Your Ground" law. Alexander also rejected a plea deal of three years in prison, opting instead to take her case in front of jurors. They found her guilty in just 12 minutes.
Under Florida’s 10-20-life law, Alexander was sentenced to a mandatory 20 years behind bars because she was convicted of aggravated assault where a firearm was discharged.
Zimmerman, on the other hand, was found not guilty of second-degree manslaughter by a jury of six women. It took them a little more than 16 hours to render the verdict that set Zimmerman free.
Zimmerman never went before a judge, like Alexander, asking for immunity under Florida's "Stand Your Ground" laws. The former neighborhood watch captain went straight to trial, instead, where he was charged in the fatal shooting of Martin in Sanford, Florida, on February 26, 2012. Martin was walking through Zimmerman’s neighborhood that night when Zimmerman saw him and told police that he looked suspicious. The two got into an altercation, and Zimmerman said he was forced to draw his gun and shoot Martin in self-defense.
Protests were held around the country, calling for Zimmerman’s arrest for Martin’s death. Zimmerman was eventually charged with second-degree murder in April of 2012. The case has reinvigorated national conversations about race, racial profiling and self-defense laws.
And now the question on many people’s minds -- including Alexander's -- is why a claim of self-defense failed Alexander but worked for Zimmerman.
"Other defendants have used it. What's so different about my situation that it doesn't apply to me?" Alexander asked.
Syndicated columnist Roland Martin says, however, it’s not controversial self-defense laws that are to blame in Alexander’s case. In an opinion piece for CNN, Roland pointed his finger at Florida’s mandatory minimum sentences.
“Did the bullet hit the children? No. Did Alexander point the gun at her husband and hit him? No. She simply fired a warning shot, and according to Florida's shameful law, that's enough for a minimum 20-year sentence,” Roland wrote. “Florida elected officials and residents should be ashamed of this law and do all they can to change it.”
apparently angela corey have a hand in this piece of justice also. justice is blind ent.
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When TI got caught with an arsenal of weapons where were the leaders of the black community expressing outrage and disbelief? Instead we had a "free TI" movement. Black on black crime occurring everyday. As much as I'm sadden by this boy's death, why do they feel the need to have Zimmerman's head on a platter? What about the other people who caught stray bullets from gang warfare. What about all the other blacks who neglect jury duty and also refuse to cooperate with law enforcement when black on black crime occur. It's the same thing with the N word. It's ok for a black person to say it but once a white person says it they ready to grab at their throat. Mental Slavery
It is always a travesty when an innocent child is killed so don't bring TI, the N word and gang violence into this...those have nothing to do with the issue
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What f**king collection you talking about? The man got caught trying to buy some machine guns with silencers from a federal agent. He himself confessed that he began stockpiling weapons after receiving death threats. It's admirable that he served his time but the black community still picked up for him and other rappers caught in similar circumstances. Now all of a sudden the black community wants to talk about gun control? The majority of gun crime is done by black people possessing illegal firearms. Had Zimmerman been a middle aged black man Trayvon Martin would have been easily and successfully painted as a delinquent youth. This case would not have made it past local attention. It is a circus paraded for the world to see and another way to keep the people divided and race relations low. The media playing everyone against each other just for a couple of dollars and people biting that chain up.
On this and prior evidence I can only surmise that you live in some alternate reality, quite possibly the result of your head being up your ass. If you had any kinda sense you would know that what the police allege and what they can actually prove in court are two completely different things. I suggest you properly educate yourself before you proceed to make such a spectacular ass of yourself arguing shit you don't know anything about.
I won't even bother responding to the rest of ignorant shit you typed there about the Martin case. Clearly your privileged background in Trinidad has insulated you from certain realities... including common sense.
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I eh lying rabbit, sometime i does feel tuh kill you breds, seriously. i believe if we ever meet i might not be able to control myself serious ting . take it how yuh want.
so your solution is some more black-on-black violence. breds, i doh get you and you doh get me.
as soon as obama stick his 4king nose into this, he poison that jury. he shoulda never say nothing and zimmerman woulda get a manslaughter charge as sure anything. nothing sure to get a redneck back up then some words from that c*nt in the white house. he make the same mistake as bush did with schiavo. obama think he still back in 2009 when people liked him. like rza say he need to snap outta that 4king dream.
Why Obama can't say anything. He poison what jury! You talking bunkers!
looks like obama double down. tell me these statements are all about harmony:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/19/america-not-post-racial-society-barack-obama
obama see the path back to political relevancy and he playing de race card. de "race-baiter-in-chief" (ah see this one on twitter).
"FORGET about NSA, drone strikes and financial reform .... N*KKA!"
and that last word is enough to have all dem race warriors like jackson, sharpton and jahkingdom, ready for another round of endless and pointless distraction.
tell you what. trayvon martin was not only a tragedy it was a tragedy that was as CONVENIENT as it was INSIGNIFICANT in a world of larger and more important tragedies. the black on black killing fields of the inner cities (e.g. chicago) fuelled by the drug trade is far far more important tragedy to the black community than trayvon martin. trayvon martin was a dude that got profiled, tried to win a gunfight with his fists and lost. obama playing like he coulda been trayvon? so wha, tracy martin went harvard university? shameful - and these liberal racists will swallow that smile and ask for seconds.
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wham bakes? how yuh quietly let go de big wok so? ;D
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looks like obama double down. tell me these statements are all about harmony:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/19/america-not-post-racial-society-barack-obama
obama see the path back to political relevancy and he playing de race card. de "race-baiter-in-chief" (ah see this one on twitter).
"FORGET about NSA, drone strikes and financial reform .... N*KKA!"
and that last word is enough to have all dem race warriors like jackson, sharpton and jahkingdom, ready for another round of endless and pointless distraction.
tell you what. trayvon martin was not only a tragedy it was a tragedy that was as CONVENIENT as it was INSIGNIFICANT in a world of larger and more important tragedies. the black on black killing fields of the inner cities (e.g. chicago) fuelled by the drug trade is far far more important tragedy to the black community than trayvon martin. trayvon martin was a dude that got profiled, tried to win a gunfight with his fists and lost. obama playing like he coulda been trayvon? so wha, tracy martin went harvard university? shameful - and these liberal racists will swallow that smile and ask for seconds.
1. Obama don't need "political relevancy"... Repugnicans and other lesser life forms, like you nah... see to it that he stays relevant.
2. The surge in murders in Chicago the past two years is only tenuously-related to drugs. You actually doh even have to be that bright to realize that, but then again... is you we talking about.
3. Trayvon Martin see Zimmerman with a gun in he hand and proceeded to start a fistfight anyways. Sounds as though you just as dotish as dem white woman dey put on de jury. And even that might be ah insult to them.
4. Obama father didn't go Harvard... the Tracy Martin comment fails on many levels, but God bless yuh, yuh really tort yuh say something.
wham bakes? how yuh quietly let go de big wok so? ;D
Nah... you just need to pay better attention :)
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looks like obama double down. tell me these statements are all about harmony:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/19/america-not-post-racial-society-barack-obama
obama see the path back to political relevancy and he playing de race card. de "race-baiter-in-chief" (ah see this one on twitter).
"FORGET about NSA, drone strikes and financial reform .... N*KKA!"
and that last word is enough to have all dem race warriors like jackson, sharpton and jahkingdom, ready for another round of endless and pointless distraction.
tell you what. trayvon martin was not only a tragedy it was a tragedy that was as CONVENIENT as it was INSIGNIFICANT in a world of larger and more important tragedies. the black on black killing fields of the inner cities (e.g. chicago) fuelled by the drug trade is far far more important tragedy to the black community than trayvon martin. trayvon martin was a dude that got profiled, tried to win a gunfight with his fists and lost. obama playing like he coulda been trayvon? so wha, tracy martin went harvard university? shameful - and these liberal racists will swallow that smile and ask for seconds.
1. Obama don't need "political relevancy"... Repugnicans and other lesser life forms, like you nah... see to it that he stays relevant.
2. The surge in murders in Chicago the past two years is only tenuously-related to drugs. You actually doh even have to be that bright to realize that, but then again... is you we talking about.
3. Trayvon Martin see Zimmerman with a gun in he hand and proceeded to start a fistfight anyways. Sounds as though you just as dotish as dem white woman dey put on de jury. And even that might be ah insult to them.
4. Obama father didn't go Harvard... the Tracy Martin comment fails on many levels, but God bless yuh, yuh really tort yuh say something.
bakes, is clear part of the education you suffered is to make it impossible for you to pick up on the simplest of points. the crux of my post (which i shouted with the BOLDED words) was this issue is CONVENIENT but INSIGNIFICANT. you somehow missed this.
deeks, awaiting your feedback.
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Anybody post this?
Romany Malco ‘Message to Trayvon Sympathizers’
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/romany-malco/a-message-to-trayvon-mart_b_3612231.html
In a blog on The Huffington Post, the actor pointed out the role of mainstream news, pop culture and economics in this story steamrolling over more prevalent black on black shooting crimes that are largely uncovered by the press.
He wrote:
I haven’t touched on the Trayvon Martin issue because race matters in this country are the paralysis of the American people. To constructively discuss Trayvon would require empathy, introspection and an understanding of America’s social and economic history. This is why the open forums we have seen thus far seem to fuel more ignorance and bias than reasonable debate.
To be brutally honest, the only reason people are even aware of Trayvon Martin is because it became a topic within mainstream news and pop culture. Meaning: News directors saw it as a profitable, sensational story. Hundreds of blacks die annually in South Side Chicago without even a blurb. Trayvon isn’t in the mainstream news for any reason other than ratings and profit. The news coverage on the Zimmerman case almost implies that the killing of this young black man is somehow an anomaly and I resent that.
In this country, if it isn’t streamlined through mainstream media and pop culture, it doesn’t seem to warrant national debate. Our “government” continues to wreak havoc on our civil liberties and there is little to no protest from the black community because of media diversion tactics that keep such pertinent issues out of mainstream media. But if Jay-Z or Rihanna were to make mention of it, we’d suddenly be jolted out of our sugar comas and protesting on freeways.
My point being, people are up in arms about Trayvon based on regurgitated pundits and manipulated facts aired to elicit emotion while fueling America’s anger and division. That’s how you boost ratings. No different from Piers Morgan’s desperate rant over gun control when he knew his ratings were in the dumps. And from where I stand, anyone who still relies on corporate-owned media pundits to support an argument isn’t equipped to offer worthwhile solutions.
People are using Trayvon Martin’s death as an excuse to project their own deep-seated issues with racism and will not be capable of intelligent, empathetic debate until they’ve cooled down and afforded themselves an education.
Addressing Trayvon without first addressing the absence of critical thinking in our schools, the lack of introspection, the reasons for our low tolerance and our country’s skewed value system does nothing more than create a sounding board for the ignorant. So rather than facilitate more racism outcry, I’d like to address young black people specifically.
I believe we lost that trial for Trayvon long before he was killed. Trayvon was doomed the moment ignorance became synonymous with young black America . We lost that case by using media outlets (music, movies, social media, etc.) as vehicles to perpetuate the same negative images and social issues that destroyed the black community in the first place. When we went on record glorifying violent crime and when we voted for a president we never thought to hold accountable. When we signed on to do reality shows that fed into the media’s stereotypes of black men, we ingrained an image of Trayvon Martin so overwhelming that who he actually may have been didn’t matter anymore.
Don’t you find it peculiar that the same media outlets who have worked so diligently to galvanize the negative stigmas of black men in America are now airing open debates on improving the image of black males in American media? Do you honestly think CNN is using their competitive time slots for philanthropy?
“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste.” – Rahm Emanuel
If we really wanted to ensure Trayvon Martin’s killing was not in vain, we’d stop perpetuating negative images that are now synonymous with black men in America. We’d stop rapping about selling drugs and killing niggas. The next time we saw a man beating a woman, we’d call for help or break it up, but one thing we would not do is stand by with our cellphones out — yelling WORLDSTAR!() Instead of rewarding kids for memorization, we’d reward them for independent and critical thinking.
We’d spend less time subconsciously repeating lyrics about death and murder and more time understanding why we are so willing to twerk to songs that bemean women and boast of having things we cannot afford. We’d set examples of self-love for our youth by honoring our own hair, skin and eye color. We’d stop spending money on designer gear that we should be spending on our physical and psychological health. We’d seek information outside the corporate owned-media that manipulates us. We’d stop letting television babysit our kids and we’d quit regurgitating pundits we haven’t come up with on our own.
Education, introspection, self-love and excellence are the only ways to overcome the wrath of ignorance. So before going back to popping molly and getting Turnt Up, I urge you to consider the implications of your actions. Your child’s life may depend on it.
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bakes, is clear part of the education you suffered is to make it impossible for you to pick up on the simplest of points. the crux of my post (which i shouted with the BOLDED words) was this issue is CONVENIENT but INSIGNIFICANT. you somehow missed this.
deeks, awaiting your feedback.
In addition to poor English (Language and Reading Comprehension)... it is clear that the rest of the education you 'suffered' has yet to catch up to you. If you had anything resembling a functional brain you'd realize that I actually addressed both the "convenient" and "insignificant" part of your comment. Maybe I should have 'shouted' as well to make it obvious for you, since subtlety appears to be yet another casualty of your deficient cognition.
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FF no one posted it as yet... but I responded to him when he posted it on FB.
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@ribbit..what about the NRA failing to talk about white on white crimes, like mass shootings in schools, at movies, shopping malls etc?
another case is coming in September, i guess this is the cause of black and black crime and therefore black folks should keep quiet.
http://politicalblindspot.org/another-trayvon-martin-shot-dead-in-florida-why-isnt-the-shooting-of-17-year-old-jordan-davis-headline-news/
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/jordan-davis-update-michael-dunn-charged-with-first-degree-murder-trial-scheduled-for-september-23
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@ribbit..what about the NRA failing to talk about white on white crimes, like mass shootings in schools, at movies, shopping malls etc?
another case is coming in September, i guess this is the cause of black and black crime and therefore black folks should keep quiet.
http://politicalblindspot.org/another-trayvon-martin-shot-dead-in-florida-why-isnt-the-shooting-of-17-year-old-jordan-davis-headline-news/
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/jordan-davis-update-michael-dunn-charged-with-first-degree-murder-trial-scheduled-for-september-23
JK, the NRA doh claim to advocate for "white people". Jackson, et al. Call themselves "black leaders". I never hear Lapierre call himself a "white leader".
Here's the problem. Sharpton, Jackson, Jeolous are great at getting people riled up about white-on-black issues but they SUCK at black-on-black issues. They absolutely SUCK. They need to get out of that business altogether and stop pretending they doing anything but chasing after white people when they do something bad. The evidence is all around. What progress exactly did Obama create as a "community organizer" dealing with black-on-black issues? The hood he live in Chicago is a disgrace. He's a disgrace as an organizer. And to see these 4king shameless clowns come out de woodwork when a white man act up should tell us they only moonlighting as community organizers and black leaders. That's just their sideline until whitey show up. Black people need to wise up and stop cutting these a**holes so much slack and look elsewhere for solutions. Fact is the bigger issues are the black-on-black ones.
jackson, sharpton and the others have been following the same script for the last few generations - unite the black community by hating on whitey. that works great for the democrat party. as long as these "black leaders" can deliver the vote, democrats are happy. but this formula has FAILED for the black community. the last two generations are the evidence. time to abort these black leaders in general and this plan in particular and come up with some new ideas. hating on whitey has not resolved the bigger problems facing the black community.
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Ribbit, NAACP is and has always been an organization that primarily advocate for civil rights for people of African descent and also people of colour. This is a historical factor. What wrong with that. You could say what you want, as long as there is uneven handed justice is this country, their voices are needed. If the playing field was level, Al and Jesse would not be lighting the fire under their bam-bam.
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Charles Barkley's Perspective
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/charles-barkley-agrees-verdict-george-zimmerman-case-video-191032399.html
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Ribbit, NAACP is and has always been an organization that primarily advocate for civil rights for people of African descent and also people of colour. This is a historical factor. What wrong with that. You could say what you want, as long as there is uneven handed justice is this country, their voices are needed. If the playing field was level, Al and Jesse would not be lighting the fire under their bam-bam.
deeks, the NAACP is NOT about Advancement in GENERAL. over the years the evidence is clear that NAACP is about a specific type of advancment - the kind that involves responding to white attacks on blacks. it has done NOTHING of note WITHIN the black community. and the stats show that the problems WITHIN the black community are far more pressing and important than the ones that the NAACP deal with. yet the NAACP willing lends profile to what are marginal issues. they are complicit in inverting the relevance of issues which is a kind of fraud. this sends a poisonous message - that a white man killing a black man is intolerable but a black man killing a black man eh no thing.
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^^^ This is exactly my point. One set of reactive idiots who want to march and riot because a white man killed a black teen. I find it distasteful and disrespectful to tell me that a white man killing a black man is more important than a black man killing a black man. The message is the white man is the bogeyman and we should keep looking over our shoulders for him. Black people commit the majority of crime with illegal firearms so the gun control discussion regarding this incident doesn't even make sense. The black community needs to stop being reactive and get out in front.
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that a white man killing a black man is intolerable but a black man killing a black man eh no thing.
That is not true. The NAACP, Urban league, Black churches chides the wanton shooting and drug use in the Black communities. The uneven amount of liquor stores within the Black communities. For everyone one grocery selling fresh vegetables, etc, you would 3 liquor shops. They talk about the breakdown in the black family. They chide men who don't support their children. They talk about sex education to prevent the cycle of early pregnancies and sexual deseases. They talk about struggle black men have in staying in college. They talk about early childood education. I have heard and read many reports of the NAACP, Urban league, etc chiding the black community for their responsibilty is averting the downward spiral of the black male in the community. And they have put the onus on BLACK IRRESPOSIBILITY.
What I can blame the NAACP is not focusing on Black business creation within the black community. They always behind some big name store or project to create employment. They appear to fail see the importance of the small(mom and pop) businesses where Blacks can employ people from the neighbourhood to work. That is what is lacking in the black community. Genuine grassroot business development. I think they behind the curve in that respect.
I remember Aetna and NAACP had a conference in Howard. Athur Ashe was the speaker. He asked the question to the audience. he said, some time in the future when things even out, are you all going to be ready for the end of affirnative action? Everyone was in quandry. He told the audience the Black community must bhe ready for the end of affirmative. Black men must do this, must do that, must do the other. take care of their children. He asked why are black in prison for marijuana and dope when they don't bring it into the country. They don't launder the money. They are just the end of the distribution chain and end up in jail. They MUST work twice as hard to get the benefit of doubt. The NAACP can't be everything for the Black man. And they ain't. The Black man have to look at himself in the mirror and say is time to stop f**kING around. Plain and simple.
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that a white man killing a black man is intolerable but a black man killing a black man eh no thing.
That is not true. The NAACP, Urban league, Black churches chides the wanton shooting and drug use in the Black communities. The uneven amount of liquor stores within the Black communities. For everyone one grocery selling fresh vegetables, etc, you would 3 liquor shops. They talk about the breakdown in the black family. They chide men who don't support their children. They talk about sex education to prevent the cycle of early pregnancies and sexual deseases. They talk about struggle black men have in staying in college. They talk about early childood education. I have heard and read many reports of the NAACP, Urban league, etc chiding the black community for their responsibilty is averting the downward spiral of the black male in the community. And they have put the onus on BLACK IRRESPOSIBILITY.
What I can blame the NAACP is not focusing on Black business creation within the black community. They always behind some big name store or project to create employment. They appear to fail see the importance of the small(mom and pop) businesses where Blacks can employ people from the neighbourhood to work. That is what is lacking in the black community. Genuine grassroot business development. I think they behind the curve in that respect.
I remember Aetna and NAACP had a conference in Howard. Athur Ashe was the speaker. He asked the question to the audience. he said, some time in the future when things even out, are you all going to be ready for the end of affirnative action? Everyone was in quandry. He told the audience the Black community must bhe ready for the end of affirmative. Black men must do this, must do that, must do the other. take care of their children. He asked why are black in prison for marijuana and dope when they don't bring it into the country. They don't launder the money. They are just the end of the distribution chain and end up in jail. They MUST work twice as hard to get the benefit of doubt. The NAACP can't be everything for the Black man. And they ain't. The Black man have to look at himself in the mirror and say is time to stop f**kING around. Plain and simple.
ashe know a thing or two. i hear you on Responsibility.
deeks, regarding the point about the approach NAACP takes toward black businesses - isn't that stemming from their politics? tell me who working for the NAACP - mostly lawyers or businesspeople? i doh think they believe in small business or financial independence for that matter. they completely wedded to the democrat party and their view of things.
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Alex Fraser · 6,608 followers
https://www.facebook.com/alexandercfraser/posts/10100600518857296?__hstc=223762052.9b6a5c33d8da6b0ae0fea3795e1ae6ed.1373165974078.1373165974078.1374372607035.2&__hssc=223762052.1.1374372607035
July 13 at 10:57pm ·
Dear George Zimmerman,
For the rest of your life you are now going to feel what its like to be a black man in America.
You will feel people stare at you. Judging you for what you think are unfair reasons. You will lose out on getting jobs for something you feel is outside of your control. You will believe yourself to be an upstanding citizen and wonder why people choose to not see that.
People will cross the street when they see you coming. They will call you hurtful names. It will drive you so insane some days that you'll want to scream at the top of your lungs. But you will have to wake up the next day, put on firm look and push through life.
I bet you never thought that by shooting a black male you'd end up inheriting all of his struggles.
Enjoy your "freedom."
Sincerely,
A black male who could've been Trayvon Martin
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Baby girls home after hospital mix-up
By By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com
Babies being switched at birth in a hospital is a scenario parents would expect only in a movie.
Five months ago it happened to two local couples at the Mt Hope Women’s Hospital.
The babies went home with the wrong parents and it was only yesterday the babies were finally returned to their biological mothers after the Ministry of Health intervened two weeks ago.
The bizarre story unfolded months ago when a young expectant mother from Tobago was flown in by helicopter to have a Caesarean section at the Mt Hope Women’s Hospital.
On that same day, another young woman from central Trinidad also had a Caesarian section to deliver her newborn.
The Tobago mother and her husband are of Afro-Trinidadian ethnicity while the Central mother and her husband are of Indian ethnicity. Both mothers, after their surgeries, were placed on the same ward, in beds next to each other. They both had baby girls who were tagged and placed in cots next to the patients believed to be their biological mothers. The babies had been switched in error earlier by nurses and no one detected the mix-up.
The two mothers were discharged from the hospital, each taking home a stranger’s baby.
They would soon name, love and call their own these babies for the next five months with one family living in Tobago and the other in central Trinidad. As the baby girls grew, both sets of parents became increasingly confused that their babies did not look like them and seemed to not be of the same race.
The differences were initially shrugged off as the father of African ethnicity was said to have a great grandparent of Indian descent and the father of Indian ethnicity was said to have some African ancestry.
But concerns grew as the babies did.
The Central couple were advised by friends and relatives to get genetic testing done.
This showed they were not the biological parents of the baby girl. The Sunday Express understands that the couple went to the Health Ministry and met with Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan who immediately dealt with the situation. The minister instructed that checks be made on all babies who were born on that particular day.
Sources said the mix-up occurred because the Tobagonian mother underwent the Caesarian section first when she was originally supposed to have her surgery after the Central mother.
Contacted yesterday, Khan confirmed that the switch happened and that the ministry ensured that the babies were now in the arms of their rightful parents.
Khan met with both couples and saw both babies. The Central couple flew to Tobago yesterday and the babies were exchanged in the afternoon. “The ministry sent a team across (yesterday) to work with the couple and place the babies in the hands of their true mothers,” said Khan. Khan said the ministry was serious about the matter and started an investigation into the process to determine how the problem occurred.
“I am extremely sorry for what happened, as Minister of Health I have to take the blame for anything that happens under my purview. My permanent secretary and staff at the Ministry worked extremely hard to solve this problem the minute we were alerted of it,” said Khan. He said it was fortunate that the ministry did not have to look beyond one couple to remedy the mix-up. Khan also extended thanks to Dr Nicole Ramlochan of the Genix laboratory who handled the genetic testing for the ministry in a confidential and professional manner.
“I am very happy we were able to sort this out before any major imprinting had occurred and the babies are now with their rightful families. In fact, the grandfather of the Trinidad couple has indicated that he wants the two girls to grow up as sisters,” said Khan. However, the Tobagonian grandparent of one of the babies is upset and believes that compensation is due. Speaking to the Sunday Express yesterday by phone, the grandmother (who did not want to be identified) said her son and daughter-in-law were not taking the situation well and the entire family was still shaken following the ordeal.
She said the family was speaking to a lawyer to explore legal options.“I am very depressed, in all my years of living I’ve never felt like this,” she said. “I cannot even catch myself, yes, we had an Indian baby with us but we have family that are Indian, my grandfather is Indian so we thought somewhere there was something in the bloodline,” she said. The woman said she was worried for her daughter-in-law who suffers with a heart condition.
“I don’t think I have ever heard about something like this in the history of the country. When they came and said we have the wrong baby, I did not know what to do. This is my first grandchild, that’s her first baby, at one point in time she thought she could not conceive so we were so excited,” she said. “(The baby) is so adorable, we have been looking after her and loving her as our own,” she added.
Both mothers, the Sunday Express was told, were breastfeeding the babies thought to be their own.
The grandmother said the Central couple came to Tobago and for the first time and both sets of parents saw their true babies. “They are a really nice family, nice people, the mother calls every day,” she said.
The grandmother said she and her family were very happy to have their biological baby returned to them but was upset that Mt Hope could make such a grave error.
She said the family members have been receiving counselling which was put in place by Tobago House of Assembly (THA) Secretary for Health Claudia Groom-Duke. Groom-Duke, speaking to the Sunday Express by phone said that nothing was being taken for granted and a clinical psychiatrist, paediatrician and the medical chief of staff were involved and supporting the baby and family.
She said the Health Ministry must be praised for its efforts and manner of handing the issue. “We all know it is a very emotional time for both families but I must commend the health system for the way the matter was addressed and the way in which they bought comfort to the lives of the families,” she said. Groom-Duke said she has been working in the health system for a long time as a medical social worker and this was her first experience like this.
“Yes, I have seen the babies and to be quite frank the way in which these two families co-operated, I think it is something the whole country can learn from this experience. The way these two families have pledged to continue caring for these two babies, I think it is fantastic and tells a story of this jewel of a rainbow country we live in and how our people are one,” she said.
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i get ketch by the title oui.
i say it was you now finding out that hazel and patos is your real parents.
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Baby girls home after hospital mix-up
By By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com
. Groom-Duke said she has been working in the health system for a long time as a medical social worker and this was her first experience like this.
“Yes, I have seen the babies and to be quite frank the way in which these two families co-operated, I think it is something the whole country can learn from this experience. The way these two families have pledged to continue caring for these two babies, I think it is fantastic and tells a story of this jewel of a rainbow country we live in and how our people are one,” she said.
All dat fine and dandy now on to the lawsuit.
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i get ketch by the title oui.
i say it was you now finding out that hazel and patos is your real parents.
Cute very cute
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i get ketch by the title oui.
i say it was you now finding out that hazel and patos is your real parents.
Cute very cute
Hahahaha haha
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definitely a case of profiling. these fellas lose their head like just cool:
Suspect in killing of Australian Chris Lane tweeted: 'time to start taken life's' (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/21/justice/australia-student-killed-oklahoma/index.html?hpt=hp_c2)
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definitely a case of profiling. these fellas lose their head like just cool:
Suspect in killing of Australian Chris Lane tweeted: 'time to start taken life's' (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/21/justice/australia-student-killed-oklahoma/index.html?hpt=hp_c2)
http://www.youtube.com/v/6tkZuLixZOk
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Fi fi fo figger...
WWII vet Delbert Belton, 88, beaten to death by teens in Spokane, Washington
By Ed Payne and Amanda Watts, CNN
August 23, 2013 -- Updated 1307 GMT (2107 HKT)
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/23/us/world-war-vet-beating-death/
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
- Delbert "Shorty" Belton was a World War II vet
- He was shot in the leg during the Battle of Okinawa
- Police are looking for two suspects
- They are described as "two young African American males"
(CNN) -- An 88-year-old World War II veteran was brutally beaten and left for dead by two teens outside a lounge in Spokane, Washington, where he loved to go play pool.
The motive? Police don't have one. The teens appeared to have picked him at random, authorities say.
Delbert Belton, a retired aluminum company worker, served in the Pacific. There, friends say, he took a bullet in the leg during the Battle of Okinawa.
He survived that attack.
But Wednesday night, Belton -- affectionately called "Shorty" by friends for his height -- headed to the Eagles Lodge where he was a regular.
Police found him in the parking lot, with serious head injuries. He died Thursday.
"It does appear random," Spokane police Lt. Mark Griffiths told reporters. "It appears he was assaulted in the parking lot and there was no indication that he would have known these people prior to the assault."
It's the second time in a week that a seemingly random attack by teenagers has claimed a life.
On August 16, a 23-year-old Australian baseball player attending college in Oklahoma was gunned down in the town of Duncan.
One of three teens police arrested in that shooting said they carried it out because "we were bored and didn't have anything to do."
'All there is is bad news'
The randomness of the two attacks was not lost on Ted Denison, who's been friends with Belton for a long time.
"It's really depressing," Denison told CNN late Thursday night. "Seems that all there is is bad news."
The two men met more than 20 years ago and worked on cars together.
"We were mechanic buddies," the 42-year-old Denison said. "We just kind of kicked right along."
But the friends also hung out together outside the garage.
"We went dancing on Saturday nights," Denison said. "We went out to breakfast together."
Belton stopped by the Eagles Lodge two or three times a week. He played pool, but by his own admission, wasn't too good at it.
"He went up there and played pool, met with some of the guys he used to work with at Kaiser Aluminum," where he was employed more than 30 years, Denison said.
His wife died several years ago. The WW II vet is survived by a son, 65.
Waiting for a friend
Wednesday night, Denison was outside the lodge waiting for a friend because he didn't want her to walk home alone, Lillian Duncan told the Spokesman-Review newspaper.
"He was so awesome," Duncan told the paper. "Anybody that didn't get to know him missed out on a wonderful angel in their life."
Police are looking for two suspects. Witnesses described them as "young African American males of average build," according to a police statement.
Officers used K-9 search dogs to search for the suspects, swept for fingerprints on the chain link fence in the area where they were last seen headed, and scoured through surveillance tapes.
So far, the attackers haven't been found.
"We are actively looking for the suspects in this tragic incident and following up on tips and other leads in order to bring those responsible to justice," said police spokeswoman Monique Cotton.
Outside the lodge Thursday, friends and strangers alike left flowers, flags and messages for Belton.
Belton never had problems outside the lodge before -- no threats, no altercations, Denison said.
"If he had, I would have made sure I was there."
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@ribbit..what about the NRA failing to talk about white on white crimes, like mass shootings in schools, at movies, shopping malls etc?
another case is coming in September, i guess this is the cause of black and black crime and therefore black folks should keep quiet.
http://politicalblindspot.org/another-trayvon-martin-shot-dead-in-florida-why-isnt-the-shooting-of-17-year-old-jordan-davis-headline-news/
http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/jordan-davis-update-michael-dunn-charged-with-first-degree-murder-trial-scheduled-for-september-23
JK, the NRA doh claim to advocate for "white people". Jackson, et al. Call themselves "black leaders". I never hear Lapierre call himself a "white leader".
Here's the problem. Sharpton, Jackson, Jeolous are great at getting people riled up about white-on-black issues but they SUCK at black-on-black issues. They absolutely SUCK. They need to get out of that business altogether and stop pretending they doing anything but chasing after white people when they do something bad. The evidence is all around. What progress exactly did Obama create as a "community organizer" dealing with black-on-black issues? The hood he live in Chicago is a disgrace. He's a disgrace as an organizer. And to see these 4king shameless clowns come out de woodwork when a white man act up should tell us they only moonlighting as community organizers and black leaders. That's just their sideline until whitey show up. Black people need to wise up and stop cutting these a**holes so much slack and look elsewhere for solutions. Fact is the bigger issues are the black-on-black ones.
jackson, sharpton and the others have been following the same script for the last few generations - unite the black community by hating on whitey. that works great for the democrat party. as long as these "black leaders" can deliver the vote, democrats are happy. but this formula has FAILED for the black community. the last two generations are the evidence. time to abort these black leaders in general and this plan in particular and come up with some new ideas. hating on whitey has not resolved the bigger problems facing the black community.
ribbit --- It's great to see some people here have 'woken-up'.
Well said! :applause:
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^^^ This is exactly my point. One set of reactive idiots who want to march and riot because a white man killed a black teen. I find it distasteful and disrespectful to tell me that a white man killing a black man is more important than a black man killing a black man. The message is the white man is the bogeyman and we should keep looking over our shoulders for him. Black people commit the majority of crime with illegal firearms so the gun control discussion regarding this incident doesn't even make sense. The black community needs to stop being reactive and get out in front.
True talk, congo.
One thing that concerns me also, is the obvious media manipulation for ratings, and the fact that a lot of people were gullible enough to get riled up, not due to the crime per say or the verdict, but more-so because the media MANIPULATED them like puppets to get riled up.
To me that was amusing to watch.
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Watch him good allyuh. Scum.
http://www.local10.com/news/fdle-agents-arrest-trinidad-man-for-child-pornography/-/1717324/21655922/-/1514kwez/-/index.html
Arrest concludes month-long investigation
MIAMI -
Agents with the Florida Department of Law Enforcement arrested Dafod Narinesingh, 39, of Trinidad, for 15 counts of promoting the sexual performance of a child and one count of soliciting a parent to engage in sexual activity with a child.
FDLE agents arrested Narinesingh at the Miami International Airport. The arrest concluded a month-long investigation that identified Narinesingh as a suspect who was using Internet chat rooms to seek out children in the United States for sexual activity.
Narinesingh was booked into the Miami-Dade County Jail under $117,500 bond.
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at least he lookin vex
Most of them sickos does have that stupid pedo-smile on dey face in mugshots
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at least he lookin vex
Most of them sickos does have that stupid pedo-smile on dey face in mugshots
He eh have the pedomustache either.
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‘GREAT SHAME’
Babies switched at birth at Mt Hope, Tobago parents claim $5m compensation
By by Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com
Great shame.
In a legal letter to Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan, requesting $5 million in compensation, attorney Ingrid Melville stated that her clients experienced emotional trauma and great shame when they took home a baby of Indian descent believed to be theirs.
On March 10, 2013, two women underwent Caesarean section operations at Mt Hope Women’s Hospital--a mother from Tobago who is of African descent and a mother from Trinidad who is of Indian descent.
They were discharged from the hospital and took home the wrong baby.
Five months later, after the problem was discovered, the babies were returned to their rightful parents.
In a letter dated August 15, Melville wrote to Khan on behalf of the parents and paternal grandmother of the Tobago baby, outlining what happened from the moment the mother was hospitalised in Tobago to the point where the babies were returned to their biological parents.
On March 8, the Tobago mother attended ante natal clinic in Tobago and was informed that bleeding was occurring in her heart as she suffers with a hole in her heart and was admitted to Scarborourgh General Hospital.
On March 10, the mother was transferred to the Mt Hope Women’s Hospital via helicopter.
On March 13, she underwent an emergency Caesarian section.
“Our client instructs that following the operation, when she woke up after the effects of the anaesthetic began to wear off, she was shown the baby girl that she had given birth to. This baby was in a cot next to her bed and tagged with her name,” stated the letter.
On March 16, both mother and baby were discharged from the hospital and returned to Tobago.
The letter said that the mother and her family “noticed that the infant’s hair did not show any signs of developing small curls as is normal with children of African descent”.
It added that this raised a number of questions, particularly among the extended family of the baby on the paternal side—including suspicion of infidelity.
According to the letter, the mother was interrogated with regards to her friendships with East Indian families.
Further, it said that in July the baby was christened and the family faced humiliation.
“Our instructions are that even during the christening, the godparents, friends and other family members kept commenting that the baby looked like an East Indian, only to the embarrassment and dismay of the parents,” stated the letter.
On July 27, three persons from the Mt Hope maternity ward visited the family at their Tobago home, saying they want the baby and mother to travel to Mt Hope for testing.
The letter stated that when the parents enquired why their baby needed to be tested, they were informed that it was for “government business”.
“Our clients became alarmed and attempted to contact the police as we are instructed that they feared a kidnapping,” the letter continued.
It went on to state that on July 30, to the family’s “astonishing honour”, Khan visited their home and explained to them that a mother in Trinidad had their baby and it was agreed that day that the Tobago mother and baby would undergo genetic testing.
The letter said on July 31, there was “utter confusion” and further pain and suffering when a spokesperson for the Trinidad family said that they were in Tobago and wanted to exchange the babies.
On August 2, the mother, baby and paternal grandmother travelled to Trinidad, where genetic testing was done at Genix Diagnostics Ltd.
On August 9. the family was informed that the maternity DNA report proved that the baby was not theirs and on the same day they were contacted by the administrator of the THA Division of Health and Social Services, who said that the Trinidad family and Health Ministry officials will visit Tobago on August 10 via private plane to swap the babies.
On August 10, the babies were returned to their biological parents.
The letter stated that although the family was happy to get back their biological baby, the situation was extremely traumatic for the parents and paternal grandmother.
The parents, said the letter, had a close physical and emotional bond prior to the birth of their baby in March, but since the physical appearance of the baby did not have any resemblance or trait of the parents, it created the impression that the mother was unfaithful.
The letter stated that this caused a wedge in their relationship and “great shame” on the part of the mother.
According to the letter, the mother had a hard time in her childhood as she spent several years at Scarborough Regional Hospital suffering with a hole in her heart.
She also had emotional problems in her family.
“Her new baby, being her first-born child, represented the first building block of her own family. Her baby was born following years of unsuccessfully attempting to conceive,” stated the letter.
It added that the christening ceremony, which the family held to dedicate the baby to God and the church, was of great embarrassment and they now need to dedicate their biological baby but are deeply embarrassed by the present situation.
The letter requested an ex-gratia compensation of $5 million, plus legal fees were listed separately.
The following are the damages listed in the legal letter (names were omitted):
1. Exemplary damages due to organisational failure by Mount Hope Women’s Hospital as evidenced by the mix-up of the babies;
2. Exemplary damages for the breach of duty and of care and/or medical negligence by Mount Hope Women’s Hospital and/or the North Central Regional Health Authority and/or its servants and/or agents and medical personnel at the said hospital on March 13, 2013, through their professional negligence and/or lack of due diligence which said breach caused the mix-up of the babies;
3. Emotional distress, pain, humiliation and suffering caused to the mother, father and paternal grandmother since the birth of the baby. This is ongoing and in regards to the mother this is aggravated by her pre-existing heart condition and trauma experienced in growing up. With regards to the paternal grandmother these damages are aggravated by her pre-existing hypertensive condition;
4. The mix-up in identity suffered by Aaliyah Megan Kimberly. For the first five months of her life she lived with a different family with different cultural practices;
5. Loss of companionship, distress, anxiety and mental anguish of the mother, father and paternal grandmother;
6. Medical expenses including speciality psychiatric support and ongoing psycho social care and support for the baby and her parents and paternal grandmother;
7. Additional ongoing expenses for travel and hotel accommodation to bridge the divide for Aaliyah Megan Kimberly with the Trinidad family on an ongoing basis; and
8. Baptism-related expenses.
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...Parents named both baby girls Kimberly
By by Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com
In a twist of fate, the two babies who were switched at birth at Mt Hope Women’s Hospital in March were both named Kimberly by the families that took them home.
On March 10, 2013, two women underwent Caesarean section operations at Mt Hope--a mother from Tobago who is of African descent and a mother from Trinidad who is of Indian descent.
They were discharged from the hospital and took home the wrong baby, with both families choosing the name Kimberly for the girls.
The Tobago family named their first-born Aaliyah Kimberly Megan, whilst the Trinidad family named their baby Kimberly.
For five months the family of African descent cared and loved the baby of Indian descent and vice versa.
In August, private DNA testing on the part of the Trinidad family found that the baby was not their biological daughter.
The family immediately took the issue to Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan and it was unearthed that the babies were switched at birth.
On August 10 they were switched back to their biological parents.
But, the shame and embarrassment both families faced still torments them.
In an exclusive interview with the Express at her Tobago home last Wednesday, one grandmother poured her heart out, saying her family almost fell apart and was the laughing stock of the island.
The Tobago family has sent a legal letter requesting $5 million in compensation.
The Trinidad family has also signalled a legal battle and requested an equivalent compensation.
Khan told the Express that the courts will adjudicate on the matter and he did all he could in his capacity as Minister.
The grandmother said she was greatly disappointed in Khan and will continue to pray for good sense to prevail.
She said her family was not greedy for money but believe that compensation was due to them because of the emotional turmoil they endured and also to look after her daughter-in-law’s medical bills as she was born with a hole in her heart.
She said her daughter-in-law was very attached to the baby whom she thought was her first-born because she suffers with a hole in her heart and had great difficulty in conceiving.
The emotional trauma of the entire issue, she said, has torn her family apart and her daughter-in-law is having a hard time accepting her biological baby.
“She’s not bonding with the baby in the way she did with the other baby. She was so attached to that baby, we all were, we all loved her so much, when I get pay I would run and go buy things for her.
“My son, he doesn’t talk much, there is a lot of tension in the family,” she added.
The grandmother said she will never forget the humiliating comments made by friends, relatives and neighbours when the baby whom they thought was their own was christened.
“People were telling him (her son), ‘boy like they give you jacket to mind’, everybody was saying something,” she said, adding that this created turmoil between the parents, with her son accusing his wife of being unfaithful.
The grandmother admitted that at one time, she too started questioning her daughter-in-law.
“I said to myself, who this baby look like? This baby had brown chestnut eyes.”
She said her family fell in love with all the moves and little traits of the baby and when the babies were switched back, it was a very emotional day.
Her daughter-in-law, she said, breast fed the baby until the day they were switched back.
“Everybody was crying, it was very emotional. On the night they were switched back, both babies were bawling.”
The grandmother said that her family was still coming to terms with accepting and understanding all that transpired.
She said people who are judgmental do not know what they have been through and how difficult and emotional the situation was.
She issued an appeal to Khan to help in the healing process.
“We need your assistance to heal, we are humble, peaceful people who never expected any of this,” she said.
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Imagine de damage this would have wrought, WITHOUT DNA!
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funkydineva.com
It is a sad sick world that we live in. Guy’s you have got to be careful who you lay down and have children with. It baffles me how people can lay down and make children through such an act of passion, yet turn around and use the children as weapons against their partner when the passion cease to exists. 42 year old Marlyn Edge decided rather than handing her children over to their father as the judge ordered, she would just kill them instead. How selfish is that. What kind of dick did their father have that allowed her hate for him to be stringer than her love for her children? Chile catch all these unfortunate t’s
The case, a rollercoaster one, began after the Edges divorced in 2007. Mark Edge sometimes worked in Afghanistan as a contractor and Marilyn claimed that her ex-husband had ditched child-support payments. She even claimed that her children were sexually abused by one of his friends, which wasn’t proven.Marilyn initially won full custody in October 2009, but Mark fought back, claiming he was unaware of the hearing where she won because he was overseas and hadn’t been informed that he was to appear in court. The ruling was overturned. He won this most recent hearing because even though they were supposed to share custody after another ruling at one point, he was still being kept out of the lives of his children. Mark was able to prove to the judge that Marilyn had gone out of her way to keep Jaelen and Faith from him (claiming he hadn’t seen them in more than a year), and nothing was more evident of that than her moving to Arizona right after the joint-custody ruling. The judge agreed that she was alienating him from the children and decided that Mr. Edge should be granted full custody. She sent a text to her ex-husband telling him she would bring the kids to him on Sunday saying, “I will see you on Sunday and I have their school records.” Sunday at noon was the deadline given to Marilyn for when the children needed to be handed over. But she never intended to do that, because if she couldn’t have them, he definitely couldn’t. Jaelen and Faith were found dead on Saturday in a hotel room in Santa Ana. ~ Madame Noir
The children were found after Marilyn made a measly attempt to commit suicide. The dumb broad tried driving her car into an electrical box while carrying propane in the back seat. When police officers arrived at the scene of the accident, she then tried to choke herself to death with an electrical cord. It was after all this that Marlyn told police where they could find the children.
On Monday, Marilyn Edge was charged with two counts of murder “with special circumstances” for having admitted to poisoning her children. According to Marilyn’s last lawyer in her custody case, Edge was calm after receiving the order from the judge that she had lost custody, and there was no reason to believe that she would do anything to harm them.
This truly is some modern day Beloved type foolishness. Better yet let me not compare this to Toni Morison’s literary masterpiece. Fellas before you lay down with these broads, make sure you take them to get a full psychiatric evaluation.
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Teen returns home after reported abuse.
By Sascha Wilson (Guardian).
Pregnant for Dad
A father awaiting trial on three incest charges involving his 16-year-old daughter appeared in court yesterday on another charge of having sex with the same child, who is now pregnant. Princes Town Senior Magistrate Debra Quintyne denied the 51-year-old father of five bail as she questioned why the girl was allowed to stay in that environment. “Society is failing our children. She ought to have been removed from that environment,” the magistrate said.
Legal officer for the Southern Police Division Ramdath Phillip, who is prosecuting the matter, said that issue was the subject of a separate inquiry. “She is placed back in the environment to suffer further abuse. That is heart-wrenching, that is a life destroyed,” Quintyne said. The father, a mason, was arrested on Wednesday night and charged by WPC Woods.
The charge alleged that on a date unknown between September 1 and September 30, 2013, the father had sexual intercourse with a girl, 16 years of age, knowing her to be his blood relation. The offence allegedly took place at the father’s Barrackpore home. He was not called upon to plead to the charge, which is strictly indictable. Objecting to bail, Phillip said the victim is the daughter of the accused and is 16 weeks pregnant.
Citing Section 6 (2) of the Bail Act, Phillip said the accused had five pending matters, three for incest and two other sexual offences, which are before the High Court. Phillip said the 16-year-old girl is also the victim in those matters. The father did not have an attorney. Asked why he should be granted bail, the father said, “I did not do the crime which they said I did.” He told the magistrate that his daughter, whom he referred to as “the girl,” lived with her mother, but on October 1 her mother put her out.
The father claimed that he, his son-in-law and three grandsons picked up his daughter after her mother told him to come for her. The mother was in court. In addition, the father argued that he only had one pending matter. After denying him bail, the magistrate asked the prosecutor to do his best to have the matter expedited. Phillip said the prosecution had eight witnesses and would be proceeding by way of paper committal.
Advising the father of his right to apply to a judge in chambers for bail, the magistrate remanded him into custody until February 5.
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He's a mason? Cement him with concrete. Add metal bars.
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BABY LEFT IN CAR DIES
Grandpa forgets to drop off 17-month-old child at babysitter’s
By Carolyn Kissoon and Susan Mohammed
Story Created: May 13, 2014 at 9:16 PM ECT
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Baby-dies-after-eight-hours-in-car-259156491.html (http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Baby-dies-after-eight-hours-in-car-259156491.html)
A HORRIFIC scene unfolded last evening in Penal after a grandfather, who left his infant grandson in the back seat of his car for more than eight hours while he went to work, returned to find the child dead.
Up to late last night, crime scene investigators were at Petrotrin’s Clarke Road, Penal facility, where the 56-year-old grandfather is employed as an electrical foreman.
Police said it is likely that 17-month-old Jadon Cudjoe died from hyperthermia due to the extreme heat, since yesterday’s high temperature was expected to reach 34 degrees Celsius, and except for some light morning showers, it was sunny throughout the day.
Police said the man, of Old Quinam Road, Aquat Village, Penal, was supposed to have dropped off the child at the home of a relative who was the regular baby-sitter. However, the man said he forgot that the child was strapped into the back seat of the car, which he parked in the company’s parking lot, locked the doors and put up the windows and left to attend to his duties at around 7.30 a.m.
A police officer said the man was excited to report for work yesterday because he had been told he was being promoted. He received the call about the promotion while taking the child to the baby-sitter, police said.
The man said he had no knowledge the baby was in the car until he returned to the vehicle at 4 p.m. to find little Jadon unresponsive. Baby Jadon could not be revived, despite attempts by paramedics. The grandfather was said to be inconsolable, and several police officers also broke down and cried on seeing the tortured look on the child’s face. Petrotrin Estate officers contacted Penal detectives, and Southern Division homicide officers have joined in the investigation.
An autopsy is expected to be performed today at the Forensic Science Centre, St James.
There have been dozens of incidents internationally where children have died after being left inside a vehicle for long periods of time, in most cases from hypothermia caused by extreme heat.
Just last Thursday, a 30-year-old man, David (Richie) Gray III, 30, was charged with neglect after he reportedly forgot his 13-month-old daughter in the back seat of his car in Hartsville, South Carolina, USA, and she died from the heat.
A number of similar incidents took place last year, including in Perth Australia, where an 11-month-old boy died after his father forgot to drop him off at his day-care centre, leaving him in the car for most of the day.
A Phoenix, Arizona man was also charged with second degree murder after he left his one-year-old son in his car and went to work and the boy died.
On Monday in Clarkston, Georgia, a two-year-old appeared to have crawled into a car through an open door and trapped herself inside.
The girl and her siblings were playing outside and she was later found when the adults realised she was missing.
The website kidsandcars.org reports that an average of 38 children die in similar circumstances every year.
“Even the best of parents or caregivers can unknowingly leave a sleeping baby in a car and the end result can be injury or even death,” the website states.
—with reporting by Kim Boodram
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Very sad way for that baby to go...
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My first reaction was to say "charge him"... but that is applying an American standard where the risks are well-known due to the sad frequency with which this happens. If everything happened as they said, with him being distracted by the promotion, then I understand how the mistake could have happened, and don't know that punishing him any further would yield any benefit.
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What is so bad about this a lady who knows the man call and said the grandfather father died about a month ago ,this is what so sad about it .
I hope you can handle it brother .
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What is so bad about this a lady who knows the man call and said the grandfather father died about a month ago ,this is what so sad about it .
I hope you can handle it brother .
I don't know where the law stands on this or if this man will be charged, but I can't imagine any punishment the courts can impose that would be worse than the torture he is presently experiencing and probably will be for the rest of his life. Really a sad situation indeed.
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What is so bad about this a lady who knows the man call and said the grandfather father died about a month ago ,this is what so sad about it .
I hope you can handle it brother .
I don't know where the law stands on this or if this man will be charged, but I can't imagine any punishment the courts can impose that would be worse than the torture he is presently experiencing and probably will be for the rest of his life. Really a sad situation indeed.
Yep!
Curious as to whether anyone attempted to contact him during the course of the day: Where de chile? Yuh eh pass wid de baby! ... etc.
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What is so bad about this a lady who knows the man call and said the grandfather father died about a month ago ,this is what so sad about it .
I hope you can handle it brother .
I don't know where the law stands on this or if this man will be charged, but I can't imagine any punishment the courts can impose that would be worse than the torture he is presently experiencing and probably will be for the rest of his life. Really a sad situation indeed.
Yep!
Curious as to whether anyone attempted to contact him during the course of the day: Where de chile? Yuh eh pass wid de baby! ... etc.
Exactly! I wonder if the babysitter attempted to contact the child's grandfather at work, since he/she was supposed to drop the child off at the relative.
Yeah, the grandfather will take many years to get over this tragedy, if he gets over it at all
:(
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I read the first two paragraphs in the TT papers and stopped reading.
There are some tragedies if I think of them, I simply will not sleep at night.
If this were me I might have to kill myself.
That man's grief is unimaginable.
VB
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CHARGE GRANDPA
By VASHTEE ACHIBAR Saturday, May 17 2014
http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,194876.html (http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,194876.html)
DEPUTY Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) Joan Honore Paul yesterday instructed police to formally charge Winston Cudjoe with manslaughter in the death of his grandson Jaedon Cudjoe, 17 months, who was found dead on Tuesday after being left locked in Cudjoe’s car for over nine hours.
As news of the DPP’s order to charge the 56-year-old man reached the Cudjoe household in Penal last night, screams could be heard, as relatives — already traumatised over baby Jaedon’s tragic death — now have to deal with his grandfather being hauled to court next Monday to answer for his death. Contacted for comment, DPP Roger Gaspard SC last night told Newsday that Deputy DPP (South) Joan Honore Paul gave instructions late yesterday evening to investigators at Penal CID to lay a charge of manslaughter against 56-year-old Cudjoe.
This means baby Jaedon’s grandfather will remain in police custody this weekend and make an appearance on Monday before a Siparia magistrate on a charge of manslaughter.
Baby Jaedon’s funeral is scheduled to begin at 1 pm today at his Penal Rock Road home. His body will then be taken to the St Dominic’s RC Church in Penal following which he will be laid to rest. Police sources last night said arrangements are being made to allow the grieving grandfather to attend the funeral service for his grandchild. Baby Jaedon was discovered dead in his grandfather’s car on Tuesday afternoon in the car park at Petrotrin’s Clarke Road, Penal compound. Nine hours earlier, at about 7 am, Cudjoe is said to have locked the car and went to work with the child in the back seat.
Relatives said Cudjoe was supposed to drop off the child at a babysitter on his way to work but forgot to do so and went to work. An autopsy conducted by Forensic Pathologist Dr Valery Alexandrov at the Forensic Science Centre, St James on Wednesday, revealed that baby Jaedon died as a result of severe dehydration as a result of being locked in a car with no ventilation and extreme heat.
Grandfather Cudjoe has been in police custody since the discovery of baby Jaedon’s body. A day after baby Jaedon’s death, his grieving mother Masika Wharwood described his grandfather as a most loving and wonderful person who would do anything for his grandchildren.
She said she wanted the world to know that Cudjoe’s grandchildren were his life and that he has not stopped mourning for baby Jaedon since the tragedy. She said that on Tuesday morning, her father-in-law took baby Jaedon to drop him off at his (the baby) aunt’s home on his way to work at Petrotrin in Penal, as he was accustomed doing for the past few months.
He was was accompanied by the toddler’s grandmother whom he dropped off first. She said that on his way to work, Cudjoe encountered a traffic jam and took another route. She said that in taking this detour, Cudjoe forgot that he had to drop off Jaedon.
To add to this, Wharwood said, while on his way to work Cudjoe got a cellphone call that he was promoted to supervisor at his work in Petrotrin and that he should go to Petrotrin’s Santa Flora office to collect the promotion letter.
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This should be interesting ...
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Looking at it from a bigger picture perspective, this is the right decision by the DPP. There are always mitigating circumstances in every case, but that is for the judge/jury to decide.
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Is this an unprecedented circumstance locally? One senses that the Dep DPP has been influenced by foreign authority.
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Is this an unprecedented circumstance locally? One senses that the Dep DPP has been influenced by foreign authority.
I think a precedence has been set in other jurisdictions to prosecute these kinds of cases irregardless of the circumstances ......matter of procedure...so that the state fulfills its obligation to fully investigate ...............mu mother seems more convinced that it's a smoke screen of opportunity initiated by d gov't........doh want to buy into dat though......not yet anyways
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Is this an unprecedented circumstance locally? One senses that the Dep DPP has been influenced by foreign authority.
I think a precedence has been set in other jurisdictions to prosecute these kinds of cases irregardless of the circumstances ......matter of procedure...so that the state fulfills its obligation to fully investigate ...............mu mother seems more convinced that it's a smoke screen of opportunity initiated by d gov't........doh want to buy into dat though......not yet anyways
Huge step up from neglect to manslaughter ...
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Is this an unprecedented circumstance locally? One senses that the Dep DPP has been influenced by foreign authority.
I think a precedence has been set in other jurisdictions to prosecute these kinds of cases irregardless of the circumstances ......matter of procedure...so that the state fulfills its obligation to fully investigate ...............mu mother seems more convinced that it's a smoke screen of opportunity initiated by d gov't........doh want to buy into dat though......not yet anyways
Huge step up from neglect to manslaughter ...
yeah for dat :-\
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it's a different take (in general) here where people are showing sympathy for the grandfather. In north America people would be calling for his head. we see such a case at least once every summer. And people see it as child neglect no ifs or buts
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Damn, damn, damn....hard luck dey Gramps. Rel heartfelt for yuh. Tough one to deal with.
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Is this an unprecedented circumstance locally? One senses that the Dep DPP has been influenced by foreign authority.
I think a precedence has been set in other jurisdictions to prosecute these kinds of cases irregardless of the circumstances ......matter of procedure...so that the state fulfills its obligation to fully investigate ...............mu mother seems more convinced that it's a smoke screen of opportunity initiated by d gov't........doh want to buy into dat though......not yet anyways
Huge step up from neglect to manslaughter ...
True...
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Excerpt ... click on the title to see full article.
Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/27/AR2009022701549.html?sid=ST2009030602446)
...
In Portsmouth, the decision not to charge Culpepper, 40, was made by Commonwealth's Attorney Earle Mobley. As tragic as the child's death was, Mobley says, a police investigation showed that there was no crime because there was no intent; Culpepper wasn't callously gambling with the child's life -- he had forgotten the child was there.
"The easy thing in a case like this is to dump it on a jury, but that is not the right thing to do," Mobley says. A prosecutor's responsibility, he says, is to achieve justice, not to settle some sort of score.
"I'm not pretty sure I made the right decision," he says. "I'm positive I made the right decision."
There may be no clear right or wrong in deciding how to handle cases such as these; in each case, a public servant is trying to do his best with a Solomonic dilemma. But public servants are also human beings, and they will inevitably bring to their judgment the full weight of that complicated fact.
...
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it's a different take (in general) here where people are showing sympathy for the grandfather. In north America people would be calling for his head. we see such a case at least once every summer. And people see it as child neglect no ifs or buts
I think charging him was a necessary formality though,as the office of the DPP cannot appear to be swayed by emotion or sentiment. It's up to the judge and the jury to consider the circumstances and determine if leniency is in order. Based on the details revealed thus far I don't think many would be calling for his head....I certainly am not.
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How come there is no similar outcry against the parents of these girls and the boys involved who would have gotten them pregnant as there was against Helen Bartlett for disciplining her 12 year old daughter child to save her from ending up in the same predicament?
Is it because this is what we want in T&T society which is why parents are being vilified for disciplining their children at home in addition to corporal punishment being banned in schools?
It seems to me that this is what is desired hence why no outrage against the children involved and their parents.
Pregnant schoolgirls could be suspended (http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,194961.html)
By CECILY ASSON Monday, May 19 2014 (T&T Newsday)
Education Minister Dr Tim Gopeesingh has requested an immediate investigation be conducted into a report of eight pregnant students at a secondary school in south Trinidad.
The pregnant schoolgirls have been identified as members of the school’s football team while the fathers-to-be are said to be from the same school.
Gopeesingh said once the girls are found to be under the age of 16, police must institute criminal proceedings.
He said he was unaware of the incident.
“It has not been brought to the attention of the Minister of Education, the Chief Education Officer nor the schools supervisor. I have just read it this morning and I have asked for an investigation to be done into it immediately. If the girls are in fact pregnant, they will be suspended with immediate effect and if they are under the age of 16, that is a matter for the police. We will have to report it to the police as the law requires.”
On Saturday during a national consultation in Chaguanas, Zena Ramatali, President of the National Parent Teachers’ Association, revealed that the eight schoolgirls, one of whom is a Form One student, were all pregnant and no one has been arrested for having sex with the minors.
“If that had come to the attention or the knowledge of the principal, the schools supervisor or the teachers, they ought to have reported that to the police immediately and also to the Ministry of Education as required by the law.” Gopeesingh further said that parents as well, should take some blame as they too are required by law to report such matters to the police.
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T&T need a proper forensic centre and DNA testing laboratory with high capacity.
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T&T need a proper forensic centre and DNA testing laboratory with high capacity.
True but is that going to help stop this sort of thing happening or would reintroducing more discipline or even corporal punishment in schools be more effective?
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T&T need a proper forensic centre and DNA testing laboratory with high capacity.
True but is that going to help stop this sort of thing happening or would reintroducing more discipline or even corporal punishment in schools be more effective?
Was more thinking of the long drawn out interview process to determine who impregnate who, with proper lab testing i was sending every man jack in the school for paternal testing and as the results in then they are subject to the law.
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Many high school have nurseries for babies of students, and special classes for pregnant students. We should look to update our school as such to provide support for the pregnant teens enabling them to finish High School.
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T&T need a proper forensic centre and DNA testing laboratory with high capacity.
True but is that going to help stop this sort of thing happening or would reintroducing more discipline or even corporal punishment in schools be more effective?
From wiki
Medical, pediatric or psychological societies opposing school corporal punishment include: the American Medical Association,[21] the American Academy of Pediatrics,[22][23][24] the Society for Adolescent Medicine,[25][26] the American Psychological Association,[27] the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health,[28][29] the Royal College of Psychiatrists,[30][31] the Canadian Paediatric Society[32] and the Australian Psychological Society.[33] School corporal punishment is also opposed by the (U.S.) National Association of Secondary School Principals.[34]
This is something we've thankfully moved past.
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Should teen/tween pregnancy be correlated to corporal punishment in schools? Think about it like this: if a principal encounters students engaged in sexual conduct, is it proper for the principal to wreak the havoc of Helen Bartlett on them? Is it appropriate for him or her to raise a finger?
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Allegedly eight of them from the football team get impregnated from boys from the football team.
Sound like a big set of vice and peer pressure to me.
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Many high school have nurseries for babies of students, and special classes for pregnant students. We should look to update our school as such to provide support for the pregnant teens enabling them to finish High School.
add : there's also a lot of social services available to such parent/s (in the schools I've seen in Canada where there are daycare for kids of students).
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Many high school have nurseries for babies of students, and special classes for pregnant students. We should look to update our school as such to provide support for the pregnant teens enabling them to finish High School.
add : there's also a lot of social services available to such parent/s (in the schools I've seen in Canada where there are daycare for kids of students).
That is encouraging the BS
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Many high school have nurseries for babies of students, and special classes for pregnant students. We should look to update our school as such to provide support for the pregnant teens enabling them to finish High School.
add : there's also a lot of social services available to such parent/s (in the schools I've seen in Canada where there are daycare for kids of students).
That is encouraging the BS
is like saying the bandaids in our medicine cabinet encourages us to get cut.
when educating the kids fail, we need to have a support system in place.
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Many high school have nurseries for babies of students, and special classes for pregnant students. We should look to update our school as such to provide support for the pregnant teens enabling them to finish High School.
add : there's also a lot of social services available to such parent/s (in the schools I've seen in Canada where there are daycare for kids of students).
That is encouraging the BS
is like saying the bandaids in our medicine cabinet encourages us to get cut.
when educating the kids fail, we need to have a support system in place.
thank you
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Many high school have nurseries for babies of students, and special classes for pregnant students. We should look to update our school as such to provide support for the pregnant teens enabling them to finish High School.
add : there's also a lot of social services available to such parent/s (in the schools I've seen in Canada where there are daycare for kids of students).
That is encouraging the BS
is like saying the bandaids in our medicine cabinet encourages us to get cut.
when educating the kids fail, we need to have a support system in place.
And why should the school be burdened with providing child care? If they made the choice they should deal with the consequences best they can. And if the girls getting suspended the boys should be too...why should they suspend the girls but not the boys?
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And why should the school be burdened with providing child care? If they made the choice they should deal with the consequences best they can. And if the girls getting suspended the boys should be too...why should they suspend the girls but not the boys?
:thumbsup:
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In my city the school board (gov't funded) and Catholic school board are the ones funding the daycare in the schools where there are such programs. The social programs are not specific to school day cares, but teenage, single parent and families who need help. At the end of the day tax payers foot the bill.
I guess we have to consider if funding such is better for the child and mother or do we disregard them and blindly say "pay for playing"?
In a case like Trinidad and Tobago where we have millions to fatten 'community leaders" pockets and say it's community driven job creation, we could certainly beef up the social services offered to citizens. Start with educating the kids about sex and the risk of diseases and early parenthood. Remember when we were up in arms about the HPV Vaccine.. church, what other people think and supposed "shame" prevents us from discussing serious topics as a nation.
Just my opinion though!
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And why should the school be burdened with providing child care? If they made the choice they should deal with the consequences best they can. And if the girls getting suspended the boys should be too...why should they suspend the girls but not the boys?
:thumbsup:
It's this mindset that has our country going to the dogs now. The older generation with the whole deal with the consequences speech..Blah blah blah...Imagine our country still doesn't recognise and teach Sex education in school. A basic human function such as reproductive health is still hushed about and treated like taboo. Just remember you only make a bad decision when you are uneducated or ill informed. When the teenage mother fails to properly guide and provide for her children, the state is going to have to fit the costs of incarcerating and rehabilitating this person in years to come.
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And why should the school be burdened with providing child care? If they made the choice they should deal with the consequences best they can. And if the girls getting suspended the boys should be too...why should they suspend the girls but not the boys?
:thumbsup:
It's this mindset that has our country going to the dogs now. The older generation with the whole deal with the consequences speech..Blah blah blah...Imagine our country still doesn't recognise and teach Sex education in school. A basic human function such as reproductive health is still hushed about and treated like taboo. Just remember you only make a bad decision when you are uneducated or ill informed. When the teenage mother fails to properly guide and provide for her children, the state is going to have to fit the costs of incarcerating and rehabilitating this person in years to come.
Not saying no to Sex Education - (are students ignorant of what sex is and what it can result in?) - I'm disagreeing that schools should take on the burden for providing child-care.
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are students ignorant of what sex is and what it can result in?)
You would be surprised!!!!
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are students ignorant of what sex is and what it can result in?)
You would be surprised!!!!
ENTTTTT
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And why should the school be burdened with providing child care? If they made the choice they should deal with the consequences best they can. And if the girls getting suspended the boys should be too...why should they suspend the girls but not the boys?
:thumbsup:
It's this mindset that has our country going to the dogs now. The older generation with the whole deal with the consequences speech..Blah blah blah...Imagine our country still doesn't recognise and teach Sex education in school. A basic human function such as reproductive health is still hushed about and treated like taboo. Just remember you only make a bad decision when you are uneducated or ill informed. When the teenage mother fails to properly guide and provide for her children, the state is going to have to fit the costs of incarcerating and rehabilitating this person in years to come.
Not saying no to Sex Education - (are students ignorant of what sex is and what it can result in?) - I'm disagreeing that schools should take on the burden for providing child-care.
And I am agreeing that if the girls are to be suspended then so should the boys who were involved.
That does not mean I agree that the girls should be suspended though but how do they continue attending school with big belly when they have to be preparing to have and look after baby? Obviously discipline in that school is lacking and maybe removing corporal punishment in schools has assisted in the breakdown of discipline.
Regarding sex education in schools I am sure most schools in T&T teach basic sex education so I believe lack of discipline is more of a factor here than lack of sex education.
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And why should the school be burdened with providing child care? If they made the choice they should deal with the consequences best they can. And if the girls getting suspended the boys should be too...why should they suspend the girls but not the boys?
:thumbsup:
It's this mindset that has our country going to the dogs now. The older generation with the whole deal with the consequences speech..Blah blah blah...Imagine our country still doesn't recognise and teach Sex education in school. A basic human function such as reproductive health is still hushed about and treated like taboo. Just remember you only make a bad decision when you are uneducated or ill informed. When the teenage mother fails to properly guide and provide for her children, the state is going to have to fit the costs of incarcerating and rehabilitating this person in years to come.
Not saying no to Sex Education - (are students ignorant of what sex is and what it can result in?) - I'm disagreeing that schools should take on the burden for providing child-care.
And I am agreeing that if the girls are to be suspended then so should the boys who were involved.
That does not mean I agree that the girls should be suspended though but how do they continue attending school with big belly when they have to be preparing to have and look after baby? Obviously discipline in that school is lacking and maybe removing corporal punishment in schools has assisted in the breakdown of discipline.
Regarding sex education in schools I am sure most schools in T&T teach basic sex education so I believe lack of discipline is more of a factor here than lack of sex education.
Allyuh realise what we talking about here?
This is like mass suicide turn around, 8 girls from the same school from the same football team get pregnant at the same time.
And allyuh want to provide daycare ?
Fooking laughable :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Teen moms must get an education (http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,195045.html)
By Cecily Asson Wednesday, May 21 2014 (T&T Newsday)
EDUCATION must remain the focal point for girls who become pregnant while still in primary or secondary schools, Minister of State in the Ministry of Gender, Youth and Child Development Senator Raziah Ahmed said yesterday.
According to Ahmed, it must be the continued focus for teenagers, if they want to escape the harsh circumstances which tend to follow such an event in their early lives.
It was Ahmed’s response when questioned by the media on allegations made over the weekend by the National Parent Teachers Association about pregnant students.
Ahmed delivered the feature address yesterday at the first in a series of three stakeholders consultations on the establishment of a National Commission for Women’s Empowerment and Gender Equity at the City Hall in San Fernando.
She told reporters: “In general, our ministry will work in collaboration with the Ministry of Education to investigate those reports as fully as we can. Our perspective is that children who find themselves in these circumstances, must continue their education and we have to find ways and means of ensuring that they continue their education in order that they could take better care of their children and ensure a family unit that is sustainable and healthy.”
She told Newsday on Monday, the Ministry of Gender, Youth and Child Development met with their heads of department and the matter was discussed.
She further said, “We got some preliminary reports but we still need to ascertain what is the final truth as to the number of girls (involved) and their whereabouts. Education is critical if they are to continue and escape the kind of harsh circumstances that attend young girls who find themselves pregnant.”
Speaking earlier to the packed woman’s forum at City Hall auditorium yesterday, Ahmed stressed the need for the establishment for a National Commission for Women’s Empowerment and Gender Equity. She said such commissions are already established in Belize, Canada, India, Pakistan and Guyana to advance the rights and privilege of women.
She said Trinidad and Tobago had previously established the National Commission on the Status of Women which functioned from March 1974 to 1976. Among those who served on the body that was led by chairperson Judge Elizabeth Bourne-Holland, the first female judge in Trinidad and Tobago, was late founder and Editor-in-Chief of Newsday, Therese Mills and Principal Medical Officer, Dr Norma Andrews.
Described as “powerhouses” and “pioneers”, Ahmed said as her ministry forges ahead in their plan to set up another commission, the work of women who went before, must not be forgotten.
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[quote
Not saying no to Sex Education - (are students ignorant of what sex is and what it can result in?) - I'm disagreeing that schools should take on the burden for providing child-care.
[/quote]
So who should? It's a teachable moment to other students. So if child-care isn't provided what's the likelihood of these girls dropping out????99-100%? When they drop out the cycle of teenage pregnancy begins because they will be severely under-educated.
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And why should the school be burdened with providing child care? If they made the choice they should deal with the consequences best they can. And if the girls getting suspended the boys should be too...why should they suspend the girls but not the boys?
:thumbsup:
Because 17 years later, if you don't deal with it you will deal with 5 more who can't read and coming with guns in dey hand to lock yuh 4king neck. :thinking:
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So who should? It's a teachable moment to other students. So if child-care isn't provided what's the likelihood of these girls dropping out????99-100%? When they drop out the cycle of teenage pregnancy begins because they will be severely under-educated.
You think it's practical and feasible (never mind the cultural nuances) for the school to provide child care for them? Yeah, ok.
Clearly dem wasn't studying school in the first place. 8 girls in one school? Wha de jail happening in that school? And one girl is a Form 1 student...steups.
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So who should? It's a teachable moment to other students. So if child-care isn't provided what's the likelihood of these girls dropping out????99-100%? When they drop out the cycle of teenage pregnancy begins because they will be severely under-educated.
You think it's practical and feasible (never mind the cultural nuances) for the school to provide child care for them? Yeah, ok.
Clearly dem wasn't studying school in the first place. 8 girls in one school? Wha de jail happening in that school? And one girl is a Form 1 student...steups.
Lack of discipline has obviously broken down in the school and I might be wrong but I think this could have a direct connection with them banning corporal punishment in T&T schools.
Some cut-asrse from a teacher or the principal when those students were first caught getting up to mischief might have saved 8 girls from getting pregnant by fellow students later down the line.
This is exactly what Hellen Bartlett was saving her daughter from ending up being a victim of and many folks tried to condemn her.
Now tell me which is better, some last resort corporal punishment done out of love for the children not ruining their lives or this?
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Fully agree with the notion that the girls must not abort their education.
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Fully agree with the notion that the girls must not abort their education.
They all say that they want to continue their education but it eh as easy as that. Who as we does say who minding the child when she goes back to school? So Jumbie suggestion might be the answer to that. In JA there is Women's Centre where they go when they are pregnant then they are are allowed renentry to Secondery school but a different school.
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So who should? It's a teachable moment to other students. So if child-care isn't provided what's the likelihood of these girls dropping out????99-100%? When they drop out the cycle of teenage pregnancy begins because they will be severely under-educated.
You think it's practical and feasible (never mind the cultural nuances) for the school to provide child care for them? Yeah, ok.
Clearly dem wasn't studying school in the first place. 8 girls in one school? Wha de jail happening in that school? And one girl is a Form 1 student...steups.
It happens more often than you would think. At one high school I know of there were 75 pregnant student at the same time (different due dates).
You can't just write off the girls like that. They are still young and with some assistance can go on to become very productive members of society. To say that "dem eh studying school" can be a very wrong statement. Many girls and boys who are exemplary at their studies do make social and life changing mistakes. Abandoning the teenagers at this time does more harm than good to our society. We need to provide - as much as possible - necessary support in what ever means to aid these people in turning their lives for the better.
We need to stop just throwing people under the bus at the drop of a hat, especially our young people. If these were hard back man and woman ok fine. However, these are people who can still be nudged in the right direction, into making better decisions, and becoming responsible citizen.
Though it may still be taboo in our society, we need to get over the hump and face these decisions and reality head on not just "for dem", but for "all ah we".
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So who should? It's a teachable moment to other students. So if child-care isn't provided what's the likelihood of these girls dropping out????99-100%? When they drop out the cycle of teenage pregnancy begins because they will be severely under-educated.
You think it's practical and feasible (never mind the cultural nuances) for the school to provide child care for them? Yeah, ok.
Clearly dem wasn't studying school in the first place. 8 girls in one school? Wha de jail happening in that school? And one girl is a Form 1 student...steups.
It happens more often than you would think. At one high school I know of there were 75 pregnant student at the same time (different due dates).
You can't just write off the girls like that. They are still young and with some assistance can go on to become very productive members of society. To say that "dem eh studying school" can be a very wrong statement. Many girls and boys who are exemplary at their studies do make social and life changing mistakes. Abandoning the teenagers at this time does more harm than good to our society. We need to provide - as much as possible - necessary support in what ever means to aid these people in turning their lives for the better.
We need to stop just throwing people under the bus at the drop of a hat, especially our young people. If these were hard back man and woman ok fine. However, these are people who can still be nudged in the right direction, into making better decisions, and becoming responsible citizen.
Though it may still be taboo in our society, we need to get over the hump and face these decisions and reality head on not just "for dem", but for "all ah we".
75 pregnant at the same time? Was that in Trinidad?
Anyway, I'm not "writing them off" although I don't agree with molly-coddling or condoning schupidness. Yes, of course encourage them to finish their education and get their lives back on track, but saying that the school should provide child care - no. Impractical and inappropriate. Trinidad isn't North America and that isn't even the norm here.
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Pregnant student stays in school
Nalinee Seelal
T&T Newsday
May 21 2014
A Form Two student, four months pregnant, has been allowed to continue her education at a secondary school in central Trinidad.
Newsday understands the girl’s mother asked the school administration to allow her daughter to attend classes during her pregnancy. The girl has been referred to a counsellor at the school.
The mother has reportedly told officials due to her own circumstances she was not in a position to deal with her daughter’s situation, but wanted the child to stay in school. The girl has indicated she wants to finish school after her baby is born.
It has been said the father, believed an older Form Five student, got her pregnant, although she admitted she also had sexual relations with a taxi-driver.
School authorities have reported the case to the police but up until yesterday neither the schoolboy or the taxi driver were questioned.
Several parents have opposed the school’s decision to allow the pregnant student to still attend classes, as they believe other girls may think it is fine to be sexually active and will be allowed to stay in school if they become pregnant.
There is also a report that a Form Five student became pregnant during a relationship with a soldier but opted to remain at home until the birth of her child.
These are among the latest cases of teen pregnancies that have surfaced this week, following disclosure of eight pregnancies at a school in south Trinidad by president of the National Parent Teachers Association Zena Ramatali. Police have since confirmed four pregnancies, with a man being charged for having sex with a teen in one of these cases.
In response, Education Minister Dr Tim Gopeesingh has said the pregnant students should be suspended.
An official of the Education Ministry yesterday said the case of the Central student will be investigated.
Yesterday, Ramatali, who has been calling for sex education to be part of the school syllabus, said she did not agree that the Central student be allowed in school.
“I think it is not a good example for the pregnant student to be allowed to attend school. They could be allowed to have the baby then placed in another school,” she said.
However, Ramatali said rising teen pregnancies were “very heart wrenching” as “young vulnerable children... are being taken advantage of and no one is being held accountable for it.”
“We need the intervention of the relevant authorities, with the Ministry of Education, the Student Support Services which can offer counselling and we need other agencies such as the Ministry of Health, Ministry of Gender, Youth and Child Development, all these Ministries can offer services to children who have found themselves in this dilemma,” she said.
Ramatali said parents also need counselling.
“We need continued counselling and support for parents especially mothers who have now taken on the responsibility so that the students who have found themselves in this situation can be counselled and returned to school,” she said.
A press conference by the Education Ministry scheduled for today has been cancelled and a statement is expected to be issued, according to a release yesterday.
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Suspension for being pregnant? ???
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Why they not calling for the boys to be suspended too? The girls didn't get pregnant by themselves. And that taxi-driver should be arrested. The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Why they not calling for the boys to be suspended too? The girls didn't get pregnant by themselves. And that taxi-driver should be arrested. The more things change the more they stay the same.
You real "dotish" , oui ?
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?
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The "dotish" is in quotes. Dose of sacarsm!
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Child rescued from locked car
Published:
Sunday, May 25, 2014
RENUKA SINGH
http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2014-05-25/child-rescued-locked-car (http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2014-05-25/child-rescued-locked-car)
Fast acting police officers of the Chaguanas Police Station yesterday rescued a young, hysterical child from the back seat of a locked car, parked in Price Plaza, Chaguanas. Some 40 minutes later, the same officers arrested an older male relative who eventually made his way back to the car with a trolley full of goods from the nearby PriceSmart.
The police officers were forced to break the glass of the black Toyota Corolla to get the child out and the weeping young boy clung to a female police officer who gave him a bottle of water. The older man, of Chinese descent, did not speak much English but challenged the arresting police officer, asking what he was being arrested for.
The Sunday Guardian spoke with eyewitnesses who said the shoppers noticed the child crying and gasping for air in the locked vehicle. They flagged down a passing police vehicle and officers reacted quickly to remove the child from the hot, airless vehicle. No one could say how long the child was in the vehicle, but shoppers said the mall was very busy and shopping was taking some time.
The male relative, dressed in a grey T-shirt, blue jeans and white cap, paid little attention to the child in the officer’s arms; he gesticulated at the broken glass. Officers handcuffed the man and called a wrecker to remove his car. In a subsequent interview with Central Division head, senior superintendent Johnnie Abraham, the Sunday Guardian learned that the man would be charged with child endangerment. “The child is between one and two years old,” he said.
“He was noticed to be sweating profusely and gasping for breath and officers were forced to break the glass to get him out,” Abraham said. Curious onlookers and witnesses recalled a similar situation just last week when 17-month-old Jaedon Cudjoe died after being left unattended in a locked car for several hours. “People have to be held accountable. Jump high, jump low, he going to be charged,” Abraham said.
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The police officers were forced to break the glass of the black Toyota Corolla to get the child out and the weeping young boy clung to a female police officer who gave him a bottle of water. The older man, of Chinese descent, did not speak much English but challenged the arresting police officer, asking what he was being arrested for.
Might explain his conduct which glaringly defies repetition in light of the Cudjoe incident.
It doesn't excuse him, but it goes some way to explain his seeming lack of awareness.
He was minutes away from a manslaughter charge.
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D.C. Teacher Arrested for Having Sex With Student Pleads Not Guilty
A substitute teacher in D.C. accused of having sex with a student on her first day at the school pleaded not guilty.
Symone Greene, 22, was working at Options Public Charter School in Northeast D.C. on Friday when she first met the victim, a 17-year-old football player, according to court documents.
The student told police he was working as an office assistant and helped Green twice that day in her English class. The student says he flirted with Greene during class, gave her his cell phone number, and later received a text message from her.
While the student did not recall the exact contents of their messages, he said he did ask if she was "kinky."
She allegedly responded, 'I don't tell[;] I show," court documents state.
Toward the end of the school's pep rally that day, the teen went to Greene's classroom, where she allegedly performed oral sex behind the teacher's desk. The victim recorded the sex act and later shared the video with his teammates and a childhood friend.
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/DC-Teacher-Arrested-for-Having-Sex-With-Student-280064732.html (http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/DC-Teacher-Arrested-for-Having-Sex-With-Student-280064732.html)
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George Zimmerman arrested on aggravated assault charge (http://news.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-arrested-aggravated-assault-charge-121216818.html)
MIAMI (AP) — Florida authorities say George Zimmerman, whose acquittal of murdering an unarmed black teen sparked a national debate on race and self-defense laws, has been arrested for allegedly throwing a wine bottle at his girlfriend.
Zimmerman was released on a $5,000 bond Saturday afternoon. At a court appearance earlier Saturday, he was ordered to avoid contact with the woman, who was not identified.
Judge John Galluzzo gave few details of the incident, but said a wine bottle was involved and that the alleged assault happened at Zimmerman's Lake Mary home. Prosecutors questioned whether substance abuse treatment was needed, but the judge said that didn't seem to be a factor.
After the brief hearing, Zimmerman's attorney, Don West, told the Orlando Sentinel his client was arrested after allegedly throwing a wine bottle at his girlfriend several days ago.
Zimmerman was also told by the judge to stay out of Volusia County, where the woman lives.
The judge ordered Zimmerman to pack up any personal belongings his girlfriend may have left at Zimmerman's home and give them to his lawyer.
Zimmerman, who wore blue scrubs and handcuffs, appeared calm during the brief hearing. At one point, he laughed and joked with an officer as he signed paperwork.
Although the incident didn't involve a firearm, the judge ordered Zimmerman to surrender any weapons out of an abundance of caution.
Zimmerman is scheduled to appear back in court on Feb. 17.
No further details about the alleged assault were released. A message left for Seminole County Sheriff officials seeking further information about the incident was not immediately returned Saturday morning.
Since his acquittal, Zimmerman has had several brushes with the law:
— He was arrested on charges of aggravated assault, battery and criminal mischief after his then-girlfriend said he pointed a gun at her face during an argument, smashed her coffee table and pushed her out of the house they shared. Samantha Scheibe decided not to cooperate with detectives and prosecutors didn't pursue the case.
— Zimmerman was accused by his estranged wife of smashing an iPad during an argument at the home they had shared. Shellie Zimmerman initially told a dispatcher her husband had a gun, though she later said he was unarmed. No charges were ever filed because of a lack of evidence. The dispute occurred days after Shellie Zimmerman filed divorce papers.
— Zimmerman has also been pulled over three times for traffic violations since his acquittal.
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Couple accused of beating boy in video held
Sharlene Rampersad & Yvonne Baboolal (Guardian)
Two relatives of a 10-year-old boy featured in a video crying and clearing bushes with a garden hoe were detained by police yesterday, even as members of the public expressed outrage that the child was initially returned to the couple. Since being posted on Thursday morning, the video has gone viral on social media sites with over 20,000 people sharing it and thousands of others commenting, sparking heated debates on child abuse in T&T.
In the video, the boy tells the woman filming him that he has to clean the entire plot of land before one of the relatives returns home. When prompted, he raises his T-shirt and displays the bruises and marks on his body that he said he got after a beating with a belt buckle. The T&T Guardian contacted the woman who shot the video, using her cell phone, and visited her at her home in Crown Trace, Enterprise, yesterday.
Desiree Cabrales-Cupidore, a mother of one, said she and her husband, Chris, were chatting at the back of their home around 9.15 am on Thursday when they heard crying coming from some bushes next door. “We came outside and were talking, when we heard crying coming from the bushes. When we walked up this boy was just weeding the grass and crying,” she said. “I asked why he was doing that and he said he had to finish the work before the male relative comes home or he would be beaten.”
Cabrales-Cupidore said the boy looked exhausted and she offered him something to eat. Cabrales-Cupidore said the boy told her the male relative beats him and his seven-year-old brother. “I asked him why he was not in school and he said when he finish clean the land he could go to school.”
“He said he didn’t eat yet for the day. I want to know how they could find a boots for him to wear but not something for him to eat,” she said. “He said his mother does not know about the beatings and that he could not go home.” She gave him two pieces of cake and a Smalta, all the while asking him about his home life. “I asked him why he was not in school and he said when he finish clean the land he could go to school.”
Cabrales-Cupidore, who said she has known the child’s relatives her entire life, was appalled. She was even more distressed when, after the matter was reported to the police and they took the boy and his relatives into custody, hours later the police returned and dropped the family back off at their home.
Cops face disciplinary action
Head of the Central Division, Senior Supt Johnny Abraham, said the officers in question would face disciplinary action. Abraham said the police were awaiting the results of a medical done on the boy before charges could be laid. Psychologist Dianne Douglas, a guest on the Morning Brew, yesterday, said one of the problems with child abuse in T&T was that different agencies were not working with each other.
She said the police were supposed to report the incident to the Children’s Authority. Child rights activist, Diana Mahabir-Wyatt, who heads the Child Protection Task Force, said the Children’s Authority was awaiting one final piece of legislation before it could intervene in child abuse cases referred to them by the police. She said the legislation would be dealt with in Parliament next week and might be proclaimed by monthend.
She said for now the police would have to act on their own, adding, “Child labour and corporal punishment are against the law. “In cases like these, the police can pick up the parents.” Mahabir-Wyatt said the Children’s Authority, though not fully up and running, could still work with the police in such a situation. “The authority is fully staffed. There are trained people waiting to help abused children who are brought here.”
Minister: I’m appalled
Minister of Gender, Youth and Child Development Clifton De Coteau said he was disturbed after viewing the video. In a media release, De Coteau said he saw the video and was totally appalled and saddened by the incident. He said he informed the director of National Family Services and the Victim Support Services. He said the family who were alleged to be involved were then interviewed at the Chaguanas Police Station.
De Coteau said the children were then taken by police to the District Medical Officer (DMO) for medical examination. “At this juncture it is felt that the children are at risk and so a community residence is currently being sourced. Counselling is also being provided to the mother.”
“I would like all citizens to know we will execute every measure possible to ensure the safety of these children and I sincerely congratulate the members of the public who brought this situation to my attention. I ask the public to remain vigilant as our children are our responsibility,” he said.
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wey dat one bakes... why di hostility like I touch a nerve or what .. anyway abuse is where dem pastors touching dem little boys.. dais abuse.. wey yu think bout this video yu think this one is abuse too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APrV0UOR-lo
war
Sad update on the fella in this video... less than a year later he was shot and killed.
https://www.youtube.com/v/X8bKRE-r4mI
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEvuDULWYAE3nNe.png)
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Seems like trouble follows him.
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SEX ATTACK ON BABY
By Nalinee Seelal (Newsday).
TWO men are in custody assisting Rio Claro police detectives in their investigations into a case of sexual assault on a 13-monthold baby girl. One of the suspects, Newsday was told, is the boyfriend of the baby’s mother.
The case is one of top priority for the Child Protection Unit (CPU) of the TT Police Service whose head, Margaret Sampson-Browne, commended the victim’s grandmother for observing signs of the assault and calling in the police.
Although still awaiting a full report on the incident, Sampson- Browne told Newsday yesterday, “We will be offering support to the family to repair them because that 13-month-old baby cannot speak for herself, but the adults have to be counselled. They have to be the voice of that 13-month-old baby girl. So we are here to give support to the adults so that their voice will be stronger to protect the baby from further harm.” Sampson-Browne added that she will be taking a personal interest in the matter because, “a 13-monthold baby cannot protect itself ” and must be protected from evil adults by caring adults.
“I really want to thank the grandmother who observed and took it to the police authorities to protect the child from further harm,” Sampson-Browne reiterated.
The child is being treated at the Sangre Grande District Hospital while two suspects, aged 48 and 20, are being kept at the Rio Claro Police Station pending further enquiries. A medical examination of the child’s vagina, police sources said, revealed there was a widening of the area which was swollen and red. According to reports, at about 8.50 am on Sunday last, the baby’s 42-year-old grandmother, was giving her a bath at their home in East Trinidad when she observed that the child’s vagina was reddish and swollen and the child became further irritable when she continued to wash her. This behaviour aroused suspicion by the concerned grandmother.
The grandmother enquired from her 11-year-old grandson if he had any idea what may have happened to the baby. The youngster revealed to his grandmother that he had seen the baby’s mother’s boyfriend placing his fingers into the child two weeks ago.
The baby’s grandmother, accompanied by the 11-year-old, went to the police station later on Sunday and reported the matter to WPC Ferguson.
The baby was taken to the Sangre Grande District Hospital where she was medically examined by Dr Moses, who in his report stated there was physical evidence of trauma and assault as indicated by unusual widening of the vagina complete with redness and swelling.
Ferguson carried out enquiries and detained the 20-year-old boyfriend of the baby’s mother and a 48-year-old man.
The Child Protection Unit of the TT Police Service was informed and a report sent to the Children’s Authority.
Police were yesterday securing statements from several persons before they send the case file to the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) pursuant to the laying of criminal charges.
Newsday was also told that the baby’s mother had stated to the police that she was unaware of the incident. However, the 11-yearold who witnessed the incident is said to have told police that he had informed the baby’s mother about the matter, but she told him he was telling untruths against her boyfriend who is not his father.
Newsday understands that the mother who is involved in an educational programme, was accustomed to leaving the baby in the care of her boyfriend and a 48-year-old man who lives a short distance away from the home of the child’s grandmother.
Police believe that this is not the first time that the child had been sexually assaulted.
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Disgusting !
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17 CHINESE NETTED
By AZARD ALI (Newsday)
THE keen and alert observation of four police officers led to the netting of 17 Chinese nationals, believed to be in this country illegally, during an early morning dramatic chase yesterday. The 17 were spotted crammed in the tray of a Nissan Navara van by the officers who were in a police vehicle proceeding along the road behind the van.
Police sources said the 17 Chinese were all stooping low down in the tray, side by side so that the clothing on their backs appeared to be a single length of tarpaulin covering the square tray of the van.
The officers’ alert observations led to them realising that every now and then, the “tarpaulin” would shift and a head would appear before it ducked back down.
Police sources said that the tarpaulin effect of the illegal immigrants’ backs as their bodies were tightly packed side by side was an ingenious way of transporting them while hiding in plain sight in the van’s tray, especially in dim light during the pre-dawn hours.
The officers intercepted the van at four o’clock yesterday morning.
It was Corporal Uraish Ramsamooj and Police Constables Deon Ramjattan, Avinash Bhajan and Deon Lapix of the Court and Process Department of the San Fernando Police Station, who spotted the 17 immigrants while they (the officers) were in a marked police vehicle proceeding along the north-bound section of the Solomon Hochoy Highway.
The report stated, the officers were on their way to the Maximum Security Prison in Golden Grove, Arouca to escort a prison van back to the San Fernando High Court and magistrates’ court, as part of the the usual Monday to Friday routine. Upon reaching the intersection of the Pointe-a-Pierre refinery, the officers spotted a black Nissan Navara van ahead of them. Their curiosity was aroused when the truck slowed behind traffic and heads began to appear on what was at first thought to be a piece of tarpaulin across the tray.
As the van sped off when the traffic eased on the north-bound lane, the officers observed that the tarpaulin was really jerseys which ballooned by the strong breeze.
The immigrants kept their backs neatly aligned to each other as they remained in a bent over, stooping position. The officers decided to keep the van under surveillance.
“We were wondering what kind of tarpaulin was that with heads bobbing and weaving. At first the illusion of a piece of tarpaulin held firm for a while before we decided to pay closer attention and noticed heads raising and then bending back down. When we were convinced something was amiss, we decided to move in and intercept the vehicle,” one of the officers told Newsday.
As the officers drove up closer to the van, switched on the police emergency blue lights and sounded the siren, 17 men stood up in the tray as the immigrants gazed intently at the officers in the car.
When the officers used the squad car’s loud speaker to order the driver to stop, the vehicle slowed and the 17 illegal immigrants jumped off the moving vehicle and ran off in different directions - some heading into the compound of Stateowned Petrotrin.
The report stated, the police officers drew their firearms but were reluctant to fire warning shots due to the close proximity of the refinery.
They called for backup from the Highway Patrol Units and all of the 17 illegal immigrants were subsequently arrested. The report stated that the driver of the van, also a Chinese national, produced a Driver’s Permit, but only spoke Chinese to the officers. He too was detained.
Up to late yesterday, all 18 - 17 immigrants and the driver — remained in custody at the Immigration Office in San Fernando where they were being interrogated as to how they entered the country and the purpose for their arrival. The men could face charges of illegal entry and being in this country without lawful permission. Investigations are continuing.
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"Break The Silence. Protect our Children”
Following is the text of a Press release issued by the Office of the Prime Minister
The Honourable Prime Minister and Minister of State are saddened by the reports in the daily newspapers concerning the safety of our nation’s children.
We have seen over the past few days issues of suicide, teenage pregnancy, child sexual abuse, teenage prostitution and the death of a child due to drowning. These are all horrendous experiences that have caused our children to suffer. As a people, we see our children as the cornerstone of our great nation, and recognise that acts of abuse and neglect are symptoms of a wider problem plaguing our society.
Child abuse and neglect are not acceptable. Silence only results in the festering of harmful thoughts and practices that negatively affect our children. We must talk about it. We must report it. We must break the silence.
The Office of the Prime Minister is committed to creating and supporting avenues that allow for free expression and open dialogue with our children. We endorse the right of every child to freedom of expression, recognizing that in this age of technology, children may choose non-traditional avenues to disclose information and share their feelings. We want to assure the nation that our state agencies and partners are monitoring these platforms, to ensure our children are heard and helped when needed.
To safeguard our children, several initiatives are underway to assist in understanding and preventing child abuse and neglect such as the “Break the Silence” campaign. These initiatives encourage citizens and in particular children, to speak out on abuse and neglect. The Office is ensuring that there are places of safety available to all children who have been abused, regardless of gender, sex, religious background, race and economic standings.
To promote and sustain a child-friendly environment, the Office of the Prime Minister would like to remind every citizen to join with the Government, as it is everyone’s responsibility to protect our children. As a nation, let us reflect on the positive ways in which we can impact a child’s life. Each child is precious and critical for our development as a society. We cannot pass the blame to someone else. We are all responsible. Let us break the silence against all forms of child abuse.
If you know or are suspicious of any incidents of child abuse or neglect, contact the Children’s Authority at 800-2014, or ChildLine at 800-4321.
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Baby mauled to death
By Ryan Hamilton-Davis (Newsday)
A CENTRAL Trinidad family is today mourning the death of their loved one, a six-month old baby boy who yesterday was savagely attacked and mauled to death by the family’s pet Rottweiler.
Doctors who attended to little Malik Khan told police the baby had no chance of survival and was brought to the Chaguanas Accident and Emergency unresponsive.
He was pronounced dead minutes later. The baby’s tiny face was covered in deep puncture marks caused by the dog’s canines.
“He was chewed up pretty badly.
The poor child had no chance at survival...that is what the doctors told us,” said a police source who spoke with Newsday last night.
An autopsy will be done today to officially ascertain cause of death.
Police sources said baby Malik suffered massive blood loss from the many bites he suffered.
Police sources told Newsday that the dog was still at the house last night and there was no word on it it would be euthanized by its owners.
According to police reports, baby Malik was with his mother at their home off Jameel Street in Charlieville. At about 3.30 pm, while his mother was cleaning the yard, baby Malik crawled out of the house and began playing with the Rottweiler, which was the family pet for several years.
Without warning, the dog pounced on the baby clamping its jaws over the child’s face as he started to scream and violently shook its head, working its teeth deeper and deeper into the baby’s flesh.
Vishna Bissoon, Malik’s 23-yearold mother looked on in horror as the dog tossed the child like a rag doll. The mother’s screams alerted neighbours but by the time help arrived, baby Malik had already suffered major bites over his face and neck. An EHS ambulance was called which arrived in minutes and medics rushed the unresponsive child to the Chaguanas Accident and Emergency Department where minutes later he was pronounced dead.
According to the Dangerous Dog Act, the Rottweiler breed is not classified as dangerous or Class A.
The Act categorises dogs into two classes. Six breeds are specified as dangerous or class A dogs: the American Pit Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier, the American Bully, the Dogo Argentino, the Japanese Tosa and the Fila Brasileiro. All other dogs - including the Rottweiler - are classified a s Class B.
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This is the equivalent of shooting in the US. When will it end?
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Watch this video on this very unfortunate tragedy.. Read the comments too..
https://www.facebook.com/tntcrimewatch/videos/10156879078990144/
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Watch this video on this very unfortunate tragedy.. Read the comments too..
https://www.facebook.com/tntcrimewatch/videos/10156879078990144/
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Something has to be done about people who cannot take care of their dangerous dogs because the results can be very fatal smh.
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Update : Simba has been put to death.
Simba, the dog that killed a 6-month-old, will be put to death.
Simba, the mix breed dog reported to have been responsible for the recent death of a child, will be put to sleep.
The dog was brought into the T&TSPCA shelter by the Chaguanas Corporation on March 10th.
Simba was examined by the shelter veterinarian and by a qualified behaviourist and a trainer.
At the time, Simba was found to be “head-shy, showing fear, aggression, wary of human contact, cowering and tensing his body when touched and his behaviour is that of a very poorly socialized dog."
On March 21st, Simba started to display signs of aggression towards the veterinarian and to members of staff who had previously worked with and interacted with him.
His aggression escalated without any indication or provocation, and it was felt that he now posed a threat to the safety of his handlers.
A collective decision was taken to euthanise Simba.
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Left in trash as a newborn, man reunites with trio who saved him.
Marcus Wallace was 20 when he first saw his birth certificate. It named a woman he never met as “mother.” Curious, he stepped into the New York Public Library to look for clues — and got the shock of his life.
Marrcus Wallace’s first and only view of his mother was in this Bergen Record clipping.
A library worker found a 1985 newspaper story on Dorothea Ballas, a 21-year-old student at Fairleigh Dickinson University in Teaneck, NJ. Ballas had given birth in her dorm room, put the newborn in a trash bag, knotted the top and dropped it in a dumpster behind a gas station, leaving the boy to suffocate or freeze in 20-degree temperatures.
“I broke down. I got on the subway and cried all the way from 42nd Street to Flatbush Avenue,” said Wallace, now 31 and living in Brooklyn.
“I had a lot of whys. What was wrong with me? Why me?”
The discovery spurred years of roller-coaster emotions. After two debilitating strokes in one year, he struggled to regain his health and his self-esteem.
“My mother threw me in a dumpster. It took me a very long time to deal with that, but I’ve gotten past it,” Wallace said.
Still, he never stopped searching for answers.
Wallace’s journey led him to find this reporter, formerly with The Record of Hackensack newspaper, who covered the baby’s abandonment and miraculous survival.
“Nobody told me anything until I found your story,” he said.
The Post arranged a reunion, three decades later, between Wallace and the three people who rescued him.
On a December day just as frigid as Wallace’s birthday on Jan. 19, 1985, they gathered on a now-empty lot next to FDU dorms where the dumpster stood, exchanging bear hugs and weeping with joy.
“You’re my hero,” Wallace told Michael Randelman, a musician and painting contractor who came from Florida for the occasion.
On that morning in 1985, Randelman, then 25, was driving home from a girlfriend’s house at about 3 a.m. He stopped to inflate his tires at a gas station near his Hackensack home, but the air pump was broken.
So he headed a few miles to a Teaneck Shell station. The restroom was “filthy,” so he went behind the dumpster to urinate.
“I heard a crying noise. I kept hearing it,” Randelman said. “I lifted the lid, but all I saw was garbage.”
He called over station attendant Lo Kuo-Raya. They agreed a baby was inside, but they couldn’t see it. Randelman used a pay phone to call the Teaneck police.
Officers Phillip Lavigne and Sheridan Ogden pulled up a minute later. “We figured it was a cat,” Ogden recalled.
Lavigne climbed in, careful not to step on a black bag that differed from the other trash. He ripped it open and found the naked newborn, along with the umbilical cord and placenta.
“I was in a state of disbelief — to have someone just discard a living being like that,” said Lavigne, whose wife was pregnant at the time with their first child.
Lavigne held the baby close to his chest, while Ogden raced at 80 mph with lights and sirens toward Holy Name Hospital.
“I think I had wings on the car,” Ogden said.
Doctors whisked the infant inside. “You got here just in time,” one told the cops.
The baby, dubbed “Johnny Doe,” would have died of exposure had he not been found quickly, they said.
During their meeting, Lavigne presented Wallace with a Teaneck police cap and his shield — No. 187 — as mementos.
For Lavigne, the gift was knowing he made a difference.
“It’s the best Christmas gift you could ever give a cop,” Lavigne sobbed.
Randelman, who has no kids, is thrilled he helped give Wallace life. They plan to meet again so Randelman can teach him to play the drums.
“I love you, Marcus,” Randelman told him. “You are special, and you were meant to be here. Don’t let that incident tell you otherwise.”
As the reporter kept digging and the two ex-cops searched their memories, Wallace learned more of his origins.
Investigators had quickly identified his mother as Ballas because her name was on papers and other debris in the trash bag.
The bag also had a handwritten note or poem in Greek, with words to the effect: “I love you. I don’t want to do this,” the cops recalled. A Greek woman who translated the note for police at the time described it last week as “enigmatic” and “confused.”
Wallace never knew about the note.
“I’ve never seen my mother,” he said. One yellowed news clipping gave a first glimpse — a photo taken in court of a beautiful brunette in a high-necked white blouse. Wallace bears a striking resemblance to her.
At the time, Ballas told police she hid her pregnancy from family, friends and her former boyfriend, the baby’s father. Alone when she went into labor, she delivered the baby herself. She then discarded the boy in “sheer panic,” authorities said.
Ballas and the father, Ruthven Prithwie, then a 22-year-old student from Trinidad, had recently split up, he told the reporter in an interview two months after the birth. He had asked if Ballas was pregnant, but she said, “I’m just gaining weight.”
He believed Ballas feared the disapproval of her strict Greek Orthodox parents.
“I am the bad guy,” Prithwie said. “Number one, I am foreign. Number two, I am black.”
But he felt no ill will. “I don’t hold it against her for doing what she did,” he said. “Somehow or other, I understand.”
Ballas pleaded guilty to attempted murder. “I gave birth to a child. I placed the child in a bag,” she told the court in a near-whisper. She said the baby lay in the bin about 90 minutes before he was found. She was sentenced to probation and did no jail time.
While Ballas’ parents wanted to put the baby up for adoption, Prithwie fought to keep him. “I want to make a good home for my son,” he said, naming him Marcus. Finally, the child was placed in his custody and sent to live with Prithwie’s family in Trinidad while he finished his studies.
His father vowed to keep his abandonment a secret. “I don’t want my son to know,” he said in the 1985 interview. “If he ever does find out, I guess I’ll have to explain it to him, but I don’t know how.”
Wallace grew up in Trinidad with his father’s sister and a grandma. “I called her Mommy,” he said of his aunt. “I still love her as a mother. She took care of me as if I were her own.”
‘I honestly believe she doesn’t want anything to do with me … She doesn’t want any part of her past.’
The sister’s own son was “my brother,” he said. Wallace’s dad visited him in Trinidad several times a year.
At age 7 or so, the family began referring to the woman who raised him as his aunt. He was confused but too young to understand. “I knew something was wrong, but I didn’t know what it was.”
Wallace returned to the United States at age 16 to live with his dad, who owns a concierge service, and his dad’s wife, another FDU classmate, in Uniondale, LI. He calls her Mom. He has two younger sisters.
Like his dad, who attended FDU on a track scholarship, Wallace excelled on the Uniondale High School track team.
But despite a life full of love and laughter, he said, “I always felt a void.”
After Wallace graduated from high school, he began seeking the truth about his roots and found the headline that jolted his soul.
Over the years, Wallace has tried to reach Ballas, now 53. He phoned a florist business run by her parents and asked politely, “Please tell her that Marcus called.”
The next time he tried, he was told, “Don’t call back.”
He also messaged Ballas’ two brothers on Facebook. They never replied. Ballas’ parents have since died. Wallace has learned only that Ballas married a fellow Greek, had two other kids and moved to Rhode Island.
The Post reached Ballas on her cellphone and started to explain.
“Oh, I’m sorry,” she blurted, and hung up. She did not respond to a letter.
“I honestly believe she doesn’t want anything to do with me,” Wallace said. “She doesn’t want any part of her past.”
After attending Kingsborough Community College, Wallace left to follow a girlfriend to Atlanta. They married. He landed jobs managing a Walmart and a Roadrunner trucking company
He was in the delivery room at the birth of his daughter, Addison, now age 3.
“I watched her come out,” he said. At that moment, he couldn’t help wondering what Ballas went through at his own birth. But after reading the news articles, Wallace feels less resentment than concern.
“She’s still my mother. She carried me full term,” he said. “I have nothing but love for the woman. I’m very grateful that I’m able to be a loving father to my own little girl. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to be alive.”
Wallace said he still hopes to meet his birth mom someday. He is determined to deliver one message: “I forgive you.”
Source: http://nypost.com/2016/12/25/left-in-trash-as-a-newborn-man-reunites-with-trio-that-saved-him/
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Wow, what a Christmas story. Could luck with you life. God Bless!
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Touching! Goodluck Marcus, I hope it works out.
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We Trinis everywhere.
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Respek Marcus, go conquer the world...
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https://www.youtube.com/v/sljue7mtgqw
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thanks seeker
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The content depicts some themes in common with a couple other threads on the forum. Will merge them when time permits, then we could all digest and confront the fullness of the beast. :beermug:
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Eight people charged for Sexual Offences in CPU, SORT Operation.
T&T Guardian Reports.
The Child Protection Unit (CPU) is strongly urging citizens with information on child abuse to report it to the nearest police station, or to the CPU, to ensure that an investigation into such cases are launched immediately.
The renewed appeal comes as seven men and one woman were nabbed in an intelligence-led exercise over the weekend, by officers of the Child Protection Unit (CPU), the Special Operations Response Team (SORT) and the Tobago Task Force.
Police say these arrests now bring to 28, the total number of persons charged for breach of the Children’s Act, for the year, thus far.
The accused appeared before Magistrates in Central Trinidad, Sangre Grande and Scarborough, Tobago, on Monday 27th January, 2020.
The offences range from sexual penetration of a child to sexual touching of a child and having knowledge of sexual penetration of a child and failing to report it.
These offences are all contrary to the Children’s Act 46:01.
According to official police reports, during 25th to 26th January 2020, an island-wide exercise resulted in the arrest of the suspects from the Central, Eastern and Tobago Police Divisions.
The exercise was spearheaded by W/Superintendent (Ag) George, and Assistant Superintendent of Police (Ag) Sookdeo; and supervised by Inspectors (Ag.) Boodoo and Baptiste, W/Sgt. Morton of the CPU, with the assistance of SORT, Tobago Taskforce.
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Two men charged with sexual offences against children
T&T Guardian Reports.
Two men were charged by officers of the Child Protection Unit (CPU) for three counts of sexual penetration of a child and four counts of sexual touching of a child following intelligence-led exercises, yesterday.
The exercises were spearheaded by W/Supt. (Ag.) George and ASP Nowbutt, and supervised by Insps. (Ag.) Andrews and Francis along with Sgt. James and WPC Johnson.
In the first incident, officers of the Port-of-Spain CPU, in collaboration with officers of the Inter-Agency Task Force (IATF), proceeded to Nelson Street, Port-of-Spain, on Thursday 6th February 2020. Once there, they arrested a male suspect. He was charged by Cpl Neptune of the Port-of-Spain CPU with two counts of sexual penetration and three counts of sexual touching of a child during the period 2016 to 2020.
The 49-year-old male relative of the victim was taken into custody and is expected to face a Port-of-Spain Magistrate today, Friday 7th February, 2020.
In the second incident, officers of the Western CPU responded to a report of sexual assault against a child on Monday 3rd February 2020.
According to official police reports, officers proceeded to La Puerta Avenue, Diego Martin, where they arrested a male suspect for one count of sexual penetration of a child and one count sexual touching of a child.
The 58-year-old man was charged with the offences by WPC Kerr of Western CPU.
He appeared before Port-of-Spain Magistrate Marissa Gomez on Thursday 6th February 2020, and was granted bail in the sum of $100,000.
The matter was adjourned to March 5th 2020.
The CPU is urging parents and guardians to be vigilant concerning their children’s overall wellbeing and safety. Citizens with information on child abuse are strongly encouraged to report it to the nearest police station, or contact the police at 999, 555, or report anonymously through the TTPS Mobile App.
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Girl, 8, beaten to death after wetting bed, father takes own life
BY RYAN HAMILTON-DAVIS (NEWSDAY).
A Kelly Village man ended his life moments after he killed his eight-year-old autistic daughter by beating her with a cutlass.
Information reaching Newsday at this time is that father of two, Michael Maynard, beat the girl for wetting the bed.
Police were told by the girl’s ten-year-old brother that the child would usually wet the bed and, after making several checks over the course of Saturday night, Maynard woke up to find his pants wet.
The man sent the girl to bathe, then beat her with a cutlass. The child was later found dead.
Police were told the man dressed the child’s body, combed her hair and put her on a bed. He then told his son he could not live with what he had done, and even if he went to jail he could not live without his daughter. Maynard locked the boy in the house and told him he would return.
At about 6 pm on Sunday, the boy woke up and realised his father was nowhere to be found. He jumped out the window and told neighbours who searched for Maynard and found him dead near the house.
This is the second murder/suicide to have happened within a matter of weeks. In January, Roger Singh killed his wife Naiee Singh, then himself.
The murder toll for the year now stands at 59.
RELATED NEWS
Girl, 8, beaten to death with cutlass
By Rhondor Dowlat-Rostant
Eight-year-old Makeisha Maynard’s life ended when she was planassed to death by her father for a bedwetting incident. Her father, Michael Maynard, was later found hanging at their Caroni home.
Police said they were told by the girl’s ten-year-old brother that Makeisha regularly wet the bed and on Saturday night when Maynard woke up to find his pants soaked in urine, he sent the girl to bathe before beating her with a cutlass. When he realised that she was not responsive, he dressed her, combed her hair and placed her on a bed.
The boy told police his father was crying and kept saying he could not live with himself for what he did to Makeisha. He then locked him in the house and left promising to return but never did. At about 6 pm on Sunday, when the boy realised his father had not returned, he jumped out of a window and alerted neighbours.
Maynard was found hanging from a tree near his small galvanized shack at Boysie Trace, Kelly Village.
The house was destroyed by fire yesterday evening. Police suspect arson as the reason.
Makeisha’s mother, Maysonia Thomas, said she ran from a life of abuse with Maynard. She claimed that when Makeisha was just six days old, the infant was hit on the head during an incident where she was being beaten by Maynard. She said, as a result, the girl suffered developmental delays.
“I left him when my daughter Makeisha was three months old and my son was three years old,” Thomas said.
She said Makeisha could identify numbers, colours and shapes but “her brain not connecting to the hands for her to write.” She said Makeisha and her brother lived with their stepfather until last year February when Maynard took them away.
She claimed she had called their grandmother who told her that she had them.
“I decided to leave them there with her because I know she took good care of them because Michael used to abuse them too. I didn’t know that he took them out of school and had them out for almost a year.
“I guess his family never went for them because he was also abusive and aggressive towards them too and everyone was afraid of him. It’s only Sunday night I got the call that Michael beat she for wetting the bed,” she said.
Thomas said she was stabbed five years ago and lodged several reports against Maynard at police stations, including Morvant, Caroni and CID, but he was never arrested.
Maynard’s neighbours, who did not want to be identified, described him as a monster and in recent days he had been more aggressive than usual and seemed “very frustrated.”
Makeisha’s brother is currently in the care of the Children’s Authority and Thomas said she will try her best to regain custody of her son.
Family offered counselling
Minister of Social Development and Family Services Camille Robinson-Regis yesterday appealed to citizens who find themselves unable to cope with life situations to seek help. As she extended condolences to the Maynard family, she revealed that National Family Services would be contacting the family to provide counselling support.
“Such support continues to be made free of charge to individuals and households. Other services which provide counselling and psychosocial support include the ministry’s annual cycles of community-based parenting workshops that are held across various districts and which are tailored to equip participants with the necessary knowledge, skills and attitudes to treat with issues including adolescence, bullying, trends in technology, teenage pregnancy and so on,” Robinson-Regis said.
Also, community outreach caravans are being held throughout the country, with the next one scheduled for Pinto Road, Arima, on Wednesday.
Robinson-Regis appealed to men, in particular, to seek out the help they need in raising their children.
“Issues arising out of the failure to manage anger and intimate partner violence are becoming increasingly prevalent, and more men are being identified as perpetrators,” she said.
The minister emphasised that individuals need to take responsibility and avail themselves of the services they need.
Mother of murdered child says father was abusive, violent
By Akash Samaroo (Guardian).
Maysonia Thomas, the mother of 8-year-old Makeisha Maynard who was allegedly killed by her father, Michael Maynard this morning before he took his own life, said Maynard was an abuser and threatened her life on several occasions.
Speaking to reporters outside of the Forensics Sciences Centre in St James, Thomas said Makeisha was not autistic as was previously reported but rather had a learning disability brought on after she was abused by Michael Maynard when she was less than one week old.
“Makeisha is not an autistic child, she’s a slow child in the sense that when she was 6 days old while he was beating me, he slapped Makeisha in her face and that gave her brain damage so she cannot write.”
Thomas said she’s been hiding from Michael for over a year now and showed us scars she received from stab wounds she allegedly received from Maynard.
Thomas said a year ago, Michael took the children from their stepfather and kept them at the home of his mother, the children’s grandmother. Thomas said she was in the process of building her home and that’s why she allowed the children to stay in the custody of the grandmother. She also said she could not take back custody of the children because Maynard was very violent and she was afraid.
“I know if I go for them he will come for me, he used to stay if he can’t have me nobody else will. That’s why I left them with the grandmother, not the father, I did not know he took them.”
She said when any other relative attempts to take the children from him he gets very aggressive.
“He fighting mother, he fighting sister he fighting everyone.”
Maysonia Thomas said reports of his abuse were made to the Morvant and Caroni Police Stations but no arrests were made.
(https://newsday.co.tt/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/7407952.jpg)
Michael Maynard -
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IWRN calls for stringent measures to protect children
By RHONDOR DOWLAT-ROSTANT (Guardian).
The International Women's Resources Network (IWRN) is calling for agencies, families and parents to be more proactive, when it comes to protecting children in this country.
The demand comes in the wake of the death of 8-year old Makeisha Maynard who was beaten to death by her father on Sunday.
The IWRN has expressed disappointment at all the individuals—including family members and agencies—who it says failed the little girl.
According to the organisation, for far too long, children have been used as collateral damage in their parents’ estranged relationships, which has a negative impact on the children’s wellbeing.
In an official statement, IWRN president Adriana Sandrine Rattan, said society continues to operate in reactive mode when fatality strikes.
"Continuing along that paradigm suggests there may be an absence of a holistic national plan to treat with psychosocial issues, or if there is one, there is a need for greater levels of public awareness," Rattan said.
"More importantly, in order for those services to be dispensed effectively, proper mechanisms must be put in place to ensure that first responders are sufficiently sensitised on their roles, so as to avoid further exacerbating situations that come before them," she added.
Rattan said dealing with psychosocial issues requires a proactive and sustained approach, if the country is serious about nurturing and protecting its children.
“As obtains at the IWRN,” she says, “a monitoring and evaluation framework must be developed that allows for tracking the success and/or challenges of victims who are being served."
The organisation is pleading with the State to revisit its approach in properly utilising the services of Social Workers, whose role the IWRN says would be pivotal in the area of proactive visits to rural communities in particular. These officials, the IWRN points out, would be able to identify the social challenges faced by those communities such as poverty, unemployment and child neglect/abuse. The group argues that such proactivity would allow for more timely and appropriate interventions.
The IWRN says its representatives, along with other civil society organisations, would be meeting with the Child Protection Unit (CPU) soon, to further discuss stringent measures geared towards protecting the nation’s children.
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Autopsy finds Mukeisha was not beaten to death
By Jannelle Bernard (Guardian).
Toxicology report ordered to determine cause
Questions remain as to how 8-year-old Mukeisha Maynard died.
It was originally thought that the child was beaten to death with a cutlass by her father.
However, an autopsy done on the child’s body found that she was not killed by injuries sustained from blunt force trauma.
Pathologists have ordered that a toxicology report be done to determine whether the child ingested any dangerous substance.
Until a determination is made, the cause of death remains “inconclusive” but police investigators have classified it as an “unnatural death”.
The body has been released to her mother Maysonia for burial.
Mukeisha’s grandmother, Sandra Maynard, told Guardian Media she did all she could to keep her granddaughter safe even though the child was never left in her care.
The elderly Maynard is also debunking claims by the mother that she did not know that Mukeisha was in the care of her father. According to Sandra arrangements were made by the child’s mother Maysonia for them to be collected by their father. She says he took the children from the home of another male relative of the children’s mother with her permission.
While the woman insisted she does not condone what her son did, she said she never expected it to reach that point.
According to the elderly Maynard, Michael loved his children and blames what happened on a lack of parenting skills and an inability to cope with developmental issues that Mukeisha displayed.
Yesterday the police said they received at least three reports against Maynard. But his mother said additional emergency calls were made to the authorities.
Sandra also believes that the Children’s Authority should have done more.
“If when he was living across by my mother and we call the police and we call the people to come, Mukeisha would have been alive.”
She also said the rape case against her son was eventually dismissed.
“He was living with the girl at the time when she said he raped her. He hand was in a cast, the police lock him up, he already went to court and Michael win the case.”
Sandra said she did all she could to protect her grandchildren. She says she even asked their mother to relinquish custody to her. “She was to file custody for me to keep them children and she never do it. She would have been sleeping by me.”
Mukeisha’s 10-year-old brother is now in the care of his grandmother, Sandra. This she said proves that she cannot be blamed for what happened to Mukeisha.
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Boy,11, dies after scolding for watching too many cartoons
BY STACY MOORE (NEWSDAY).
An 11-year-old boy is believed to have taken his own life after his mother scolded him for watching too many cartoons and sent him to bed. The incident occurred at the family's home in Couva on Monday night.
The standard four student, police told Newsday, became upset and went to his room. He was later found unconscious with a cord around his neck. He was rushed to the Couva District Health Facility where doctors pronounced him dead.
The child lived with his mother and 13-year-old brother. Four years ago, his 19-year-old brother was murdered and relatives said that ever since that incident, the child suffered from insomnia.
According to a police report the incident occurred at 10.30 pm at the family home. His mother walked into the room and saw her son watching cartoons on television at the time. Reports are that she buffed him, told him to turn off the television and go to bed.
The boy became upset and then went to his room. His elder brother made the discovery and called out to their mother. The mother of six in an interview on Tuesday, told Newsday that she is still in a deep state of shock. “I heard my son screaming ‘mammy, mammy come quick.' I did not expect to see my child dead. This hurts so much.”
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Girl, 11, gave birth to baby allegedly fathered by brother
Janelle Griffith
NBC News
An 11-year-old girl who was allegedly raped by her brother gave birth at home, and now he and their parents are facing criminal charges.
The girl gave birth to a boy in a bathtub in St. Charles, Missouri, according to a probable cause statement.
Her biological brother, who is 17, was charged last week with incest, statutory rape and statutory sodomy of a person younger than 12, while her parents were charged with child endangerment. Police say the girl's parents did not provide medical care to their daughter after she gave birth.
NBC News is not naming the girl's parents or brother because it would identify the victim.
Police started investigating on Feb. 11 after the girl's parents brought a baby boy to a hospital. The baby still had the umbilical cord and placenta attached and a body temperature of 90 degrees, according to a probable cause statement.
The girl's father initially claimed the baby was his and had been dropped off on their porch by an ex-girlfriend.
He later told investigators his daughter had given birth to the boy and that his son was the father, a probable cause statement states. The girl's parents claimed they were not aware she was pregnant or that she was allegedly being sexually assaulted by her brother, according to the statement.
During questioning, the brother told police he had sex with his sister about 100 times but did not know she was pregnant, according to a probable cause statement. He also said he did not know how long it had been going on for, the statement said.
All three suspects are being held by the St. Charles County Department of Corrections, a jail official told NBC News Friday. Bail was set at $10,000 for the woman, $100,000 cash only for the man and $300,000 cash only for the teen, according to court records.
No attorneys are listed for them in online court records.
The baby, who was born premature, remains hospitalized, and the girl is in the care of relatives, St. Charles police Lt. Tom Wilkison told NBC News.
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San Fernando man on child prostitution charges.
BY JADA LOUTOO (NEWSDAY).
A SAN FERNANDO man was granted $200,000 bail after he appeared before a San Fernando magistrate on Monday.
Obawole Biddeau, also known as Ovad, appeared before Magistrate Joanne Connor at San Fernando First Magistrate Court on five charges of causing a child to become a prostitute, controlling a child prostitute, receiving a financial benefit from trafficking in a child, transporting a child for prostitution and harboring a child for purpose of exploitation.
The victim is a 16-year-old Venezuelan and is now in protective custody.
Biddeau was charged by WPC Timothy of the Counter-Trafficking Unit.
Police arrested him at his home on Carnival Monday while executing a search warrant. He was later charged on the weekend after police received instructions from the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions.
Biddeau was represented by attorney Kelston Pope who argued for bail which was granted by Connor.
He was also ordered to surrender his passport and return to court on March 31.
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Rio Claro woman charged for sex abuse of teen stepson
BY JENSEN LA VENDE (NEWSDAY).
A 24-year-old housewife has been charged with having sexual intercourse with her 14-year-old stepson.
A team of police led by Supt Nicole George and including Sgt Rene Bain-Keller and PC Richard Mahabir investigated claims brought by the child’s mother. Mahabir charged the Rio Claro woman on Tuesday night following instructions from the office of the Director of Public Prosecutions.
Police said the incident took place in July last year at the woman’s house.
The boy’s mother found disturbing WhatsApp messages between the child and the woman and reported them to the police Child Protection Unit. The discovery of the inappropriate messages was made some time this year.
The stepmother is expected to appear before a Rio Claro magistrate on Wednesday.
She cannot be named as that would identify the child, which is illegal.
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Couple in court on 46 sex offences against girl
BY LAUREL V WILLIAMS (NEWSDAY).
A man and his wife appeared before a registrar at the Couva Magistrates Court on Monday charged with a total of 46 sexual offences against a girl.
The registrar denied bail and remanded the couple into police custody until Wednesday, when they are expected to face a magistrate.
PC Titus of the Central Division Child Protection Unit (CPU) charged the man, 44, with 23 counts of sexual penetration of a child.
He charged the wife, 43, with 16 counts of causing or encouraging the seduction, prostitution or sexual penetration of a child. The accused wife faced three counts of prevention of cruelty to children and four counts of failing to report the abuse of a minor.
Police said the alleged sexual abuse against the girl spanned over eight months.
W/ Supt George and ASP Nowbutt led investigations which were supervised by Insps Boodoo and Francis, all of CPU.
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No bail for man, wife for sex with daughter
BY AZARD ALI (NEWSDAY).
EXPRESSING concern over where a child is living, a magistrate on Thursday refused bail to a husband and wife who are on 44 sex charges involving the wife's daughter.
The couple, from Couva, reappeared before senior magistrate Christine Charles in the Couva magistrates court.
The girl's stepfather, 43, faces 23 charges of sexual penetration of a girl under 16. He first appeared on Monday when the charges laid under Section 18 of the Children Act, were read to him.
His 42-year-old common-law wife, who had also appeared with him, faces four charges of failing to report to the police that she exposed a child she was responsible for to mental and emotional injuries. Another four charges are for failing to report that her daughter was being sexually abused.
A further 13 charges were read to the woman that under Section 12 (1) of the Children Act, a child under her responsibility was being sexually penetrated by an adult and she failed to make a report.
PC Nathan Titus of the Child Protection Unit laid the charges.
The couple were remanded to reappear on Thursday to allow a tracing to be done on their past criminal record.
The couple sat next to each other in the dock on Thursday as Charles asked where the child was.
Attorney Andre Koolmalsingh said she was with her biological father.
He pleaded for bail on the ground that the mother and stepfather had no previous criminal convictions, except that the stepfather was previously charged with driving under the influence of alcohol.
Police prosecutor Sgt Vicki Ranjit-Singh, objected to bail being granted to the couple on the ground that the incidents of penetration were too numerous.
Charles agreed, saying, "What concerns the court is the number of incidents and where is the child staying. Bail is refused." She remanded both into custody and advised the couple to apply to a judge in chambers for bail.
The prosecutor disclosed notes of evidence to the attorney.
They are to reappear on March 31.
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Marabella dad believes girls abducted, body parts sold
STACY MOORE (NEWSDAY).
Yet another south schoolgirl has disappeared in less than a month and one father strongly believes that young girls are being abducted and their body parts sold.
He is urging parents to be extremely careful when they allow their girl children to leave the house.
Missing are students Azzariah Joseph, Chiquita Clinton, both 16, and Princess Phillips,18.
“T&T is a small place. Where are all these missing girls? Some of these missing girls for years and never to be found.” Anthony Phillips told Newsday in an interview.
He is the father of form five student Princess.
On August 7, Princess, 18, disappeared after leaving home at Dolly Street Marabella. Days before, she had told her parent she was being followed by a group of men in a car on her way home from school. On realising what was happening, she took a shortcut and reached home safely
"The photographs of these students have been posted on social media and in the newspapers, so how can you tell me that no one has seen them? No one wants to speak about it.
"But I am telling you many of these girls are being taken and killed, and their body parts sold to the highest bidder,” said Phillips.
He said people know this is happening but are afraid to speak out.
“I am not afraid to say it.
"You will only feel it when it has happened to you. You hear conversations and word gets around. But there is no proof. But let me tell you it is real.
"My daughter was taken from me and I don’t know where she is, or if she is even alive. She could have been a victim of this, as with many other girls.”
Phillips wanted to warn other parents. “We have to be careful in times like this, with not only the covid19 pandemic, but we must be more careful particularly about our girl children. They are the ones being targeted. Look at the statistics of those that are missing for years and you (have) never heard from or seen them. It is scary but this is the reality. Where are these missing girls?”
Joseph, of Gowers Well Road in Fyzabad, is the latest missing student.
Police said Joseph, 16, was last seen on Monday night in Fyzabad. When she did not return home, a missing person report was made to Fyzabad police.
Joseph is of mixed descent, five foot six inches tall, with long black curly hair. She was last seen wearing bluejeans and multi-coloured top.
Also on Tuesday night,Chiquita Clinton, 16, was reported missing by relatives.Clinton, like Phillips, is from Marabella.
She was last seen at her Union Park home. When she did not return home a report was made to the Marabella Police Station.
The Anti Kidnapping Unit is investigating all three cases.
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Man, 49, on 5 sex charges against daughter
LAUREL V WILLIAMS (NEWSDAY).
After learning about a police investigation against him involving sexual offences, a 49-year-old man drank a combination of a pesticide, power steering and brake fluids in an attempt to take his own life.
On Monday, the day after he was discharged from hospital, police charged him with five counts of sexual penetration of his 16-year-old daughter.
The man is expected to appear virtually before a Point Fortin magistrate on Tuesday, a release from police said.
The release said the girl reported that sher father had subjected her to years of sexual abuse. She told investigators he last assaulted her at around 7.30 am on October 19 at the family’s home.
WPC Myers, of the South-Western Division Child Protection Unit, took the lead in the case, during which she discovered that the father had allegedly been abusing the daughter since she was 11.
On learning of the police report on Saturday, the man reportedly drank malathion mixed with power steering and brake fluids.
He was taken to the Point Fortin Area Hospital, then transferred to the San Fernando General Hospital where he was treated and the hospital’s psychiatrist saw him.
On Sunday, after doctors discharged him, police took him into custody.
On Monday, WPC Myers formally charged him with the five offences.
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Jamaican held in El Dorado for sex with minor
SHANE SUPERVILLE (NEWSDAY).
A 23-year-old Jamaican man is in custody after he was found with a minor at his El Dorado apartment on Thursday morning.
Police said the mother of a 14-year-old girl reported to the Pinto Road police post that her 14-year-old daughter had left home with a man in a red car.
Police found the car outside an apartment at Boodoo Street, El Dorado.
They went to the apartment and spoke to the man, but he denied having the girl with him. However, they searched the apartment.
The man tried to run away but was caught.
Police found the girl hiding in a cupboard in the bedroom.
Both were taken to the Pinto Road police post, where she was interviewed and said she had been sexually penetrated.
The Northern Division Child Protection Unit is continuing enquiries.
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Sex predators targeting young girls
... CoP urges society to report heinous acts
By Peter Christopher (T&T Guardian).
In the past seven days, 11 cases of sexual assault against minors have been heard in the local courts.
Yesterday, five men appeared before courts in Port-of-Spain and San Fernando respectively to answer to various such charges.
In Port-of-Spain, the Magistrates’ Court heard a case where a 43-year-old Diego Martin man faced a series of sexual offences against two female minors, aged 11 and 13, who were his friend’s children.
Investigations revealed that the girls were spending time at their father’s house in Diego Martin when the incidents occurred. Investigators learnt that the girls’ father allowed the man, who was unemployed and separated from his wife, to stay at his home.
However, during investigations, WPC Joseph, of the T&t Police Service’s Child Protection Unit, found out that during this time in the home, he allegedly built a relationship with the two girls and waited at nights when their father left to have sexual intercourse with them. The girls later told their mother who alerted the CPU.
The man was charged with 13 counts of sexual penetration of a minor; four counts of engaging in sexual activity in the presence of a child; two counts of grooming a minor and one count of possession of child pornography by WPC Joseph, who is attached to the Western Division Child Protection Unit (CPU), on November 27.
In another case, a 59-year-old San Juan labourer appeared on a charge of sexual touching of a 13-year-old girl.
The court heard that the man was doing a job at the home of the girl’s grandmother when he kissed her on neck and breast when no one was around.
In the final case of the day, a 25-year-old PH driver from Barataria appeared charged with sexual touching of a minor.
The suspect was arrested and charged on November 28 by PC Castle of the North-Eastern Division Child Protection Unit (CPU).
The charge arose out of an incident involving the girl, who was travelling in a vehicle with the suspect. The victim reported to police that the man drove her to a dead-end near Queen Avenue, Barataria, where he allegedly lifted her dress, pulled out his private part and rubbed it against her leg.
In San Fernando, investigators probing allegations of the sexual assault of a 15-year-old girl also discovered that the accused man sexually assaulted his five-year-old daughter.
The 25-year-old Gasparillo man was charged with three counts sexual penetration of the 15-year-old, after he allegedly took the teenager to the home of a relative in April and raped her. He was also charged with one count of sexual touching of a minor by PC Rohan.
Contacted on the increase in sexual assault cases against minors in the past two weeks yesterday, Police Commissioner Gary Griffith said he has a game-changer coming soon.
“This is the reason why we formed the Gender-based Violence Unit and we have seen the importance of this unit that has greatly helped persons who have been affected by crime in that regard,” Griffith said.
“Likewise, we have revamped the Child Protection Unit and very soon we will be launching the Sexual Offense Unit, which will be a critical element of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
“We are fully aware of these concerns, very soon there will be something that I will be launching that is going to be a game-changer to deal with sexual offences to children.”
He said the recent cases showed that Trinidad and Tobago was becoming a society which was more likely to uphold lawlessness.
“I think the main reason is because this is becoming a very sick society where certain elements, especially people that you will see on social media, they try to condone wrongdoing. They try to spend more time attacking and discrediting those who are here to protect victims from perpetrators and they try to defend those people who are in criminal activity,” Griffith said while chastising those who were aware of sexual assault, domestic violence and other crime but chose not to report it.
“Just as we have seen constantly as it pertains to domestic violence, on most occasions after the crime has been committed, after the victim has been badly beaten, unfortunately, killed, then you will see the neighbours, the employees, the family members all coming up screaming and shouting that this has been going on for years. Everybody knew about it but not one person ever saw it fit to pick up a phone and submit a report for the police to let the police be aware,” he said.
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Fresh DNA samples taken from Sean Luke accused
JADA LOUTOO (T&T NEWSDAY).
FRESH DNA samples were taken from the two men charged with the 2006 murder of six-year-old Sean Luke, earlier this week.
Results of the tests are expected to be ready in two weeks, senior prosecutor Sabrina Dougdeen-Jaglal told the court when the men’s trial resumed on Friday.
Dougdeen-Jaglal was responding to a complaint by defence attorney Evans Welch who said he was taken by surprise when he was told by a relative of his client, Richard Chatoo, that swab samples were taken from him and his co-accused Akeel Mitchell at the prison.
He acknowledged receiving an e-mail from the prosecutor, telling him that his client would be tested for DNA “this coming week”, but said he interpreted it to mean next week and had hoped that he would have been able to discuss the issue with his client.
He said the issue of DNA evidence was very significant and there “may be something in the Act (the Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA) Identification Act) on the circumstances by which you can take a second sample.”
Welch said his client was also taken by surprise when the police showed up, in the middle of a trial, to swab Chatoo at the prison.
“My second concern is if it is an attempt being made to compare what they get from the accused with samples taken from the deceased, in the middle of a trial, one would think the process would be accelerated.
“I would not want to be taken by surprise by DNA evidence being dropped on me in the middle of a trial…I wouldn’t want it to come during the trial or to embark on any part of the trial then have DNA dropped on me…I would want the trial adjourned, as long and as many times as necessary,” as he sought to get from the prosecutor when the results and reports would be available.
In response, Dougdeen-Jaglal said she could not identify the exact date and time when the swabs were to be taken since it was for the prison authorities to sort out the logistics, and she was not privy to that information beforehand.
“I knew it was happening this week so I sent it (the e-mail) out on Monday, so that if they (the defence) wanted to consult with their clients, they would get the time to do that.”
In response to Welch’s claim that he was taken by surprise, she reminded that in early February she had indicated that the status of the exhibits, which included DNA testing, were still being pursued by the prosecution.
She said she had also filed, early on, a notice of fresh evidence and the results she expects to receive shortly was simply another aspect of ongoing disclosure.
“I play with my cards face up,” she said, adding that she chose not to raise the issue of the fresh evidence at this stage since the results were not yet ready.
At present the judge presiding over the judge-alone trial is engaging in a process called a voir dire in which the defence challenges certain evidence the prosecution intends to lead at the main trial.
Dougdeen-Jaglal acknowledged it would be irresponsible of the prosecution, and unfair to the defence, to start the main trial until the issue of the DNA evidence was resolved as “either way it can impact the trial in a significant way.”
In early February, she had admitted that the State hoped to be able to present the evidence in court but could not give a definitive timeline since the results collected by the police over a decade ago was still not available.
As she expressed hope that the issue could be resolved sooner, she pointed to a legal notice signed by National Security Minister Stuart Young on January 11, in which Caribbean Forensic Services was approved to conduct DNA testing for the State.
At Friday’s sitting, Cpl Nigel Stephens of the police audio-visual unit testified. During his evidence, a taped recording of an interview with one of the accused was played. He will return next Wednesday to complete his testimony while on Monday, the judge will rule on Mitchell’s voir dire.
Justice Lisa Ramsumair-Hinds is presiding over the trial which is being held in a hybrid form with some witnesses testifying virtually, while others are giving evidence either from the San Fernando High Court or the Judiciary’s virtual access centre facility in Port of Spain.
Mitchell is being represented by Mario Merritt, Randall Raphael and Kirby Joseph while Evans Welch, Kelston Pope and Gabriel Hernandez are representing Chatoo.
Luke’s body was found in a sugar cane field near his home at Orange Valley Road in Couva in March 2006.
The six-year-old had been sodomised with a sugar cane stalk that ruptured his intestines and internal organs.
Mitchell, now 28, and 30-year-old Chatoo were charged with the crime as teenagers.
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Mitchell, now 28, and 30-year-old Chatoo were charged with the crime as teenagers.
This the problem with the justice system in TT. These men in prison over 10 years. If they innocent, a big chunk of their lives gone to waste. If they are the ones that did it, the chances of them being found guilty are slim now.
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Penal security guard appears in court on child porn charges
JADA LOUTOO (T&T NEWSDAY).
A 35-year-old security guard from Penal appeared before a Chaguanas magistrate on Wednesday, charged with possession of child pornography.
Neil Ramdeen, 35, of Batchiya Trace, appeared before Magistrate Adrian Darmanie and will return to court on Thursday since the police could not provide a criminal tracing record and asked for two days to do so.
On Tuesday, the police told the public their certificate-of-character service had been disrupted by a system malfunction.
Darmanie said considering the sensitive nature of the offence, proper tracing was required before bail could be considered.
Ramdeen is represented by attorney Bhimal Maharajh, who said his client lived with his daughter, wife and four step-children.
He said he was an SRP from 2006-2015, a member of the Petrotrin police unit from 2014-2016 and a constable with T&TEC police since 2016.
Ramdeen has also been a member of a church in Penal for 25 years, and a member of the church’s band.
He was diagnosed with kidney stones four years ago. A medical report from a private medical facility, dated March 8, was submitted showing he had two kidney stones and also suffered from sleep apnoea, which required special equipment for him to sleep.
On Tuesday, the police said a T&TEC security officer was arrested and charged by acting Cpl Baboolal of the Freeport Criminal Investigations Department (CID), after a digital search warrant was executed at his Penal home on Monday.
While at the man’s home, Freeport CID officers allegedly discovered and seized a large quantity of child pornographic pictures and videos.
He was immediately arrested, the release said, and was charged after further investigations.
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One of two Sean Luke murder accused confirms defence statement
JADA LOUTOO (T&T NEWSDAY).
THE defence statement of one of the men accused of killing six-year-old Sean Luke in 2006 has been read out in court.
Akeel Mitchell’s re-amended defence statement was read to him at Wednesday’s sitting by Justice Lisa Ramsumair-Hinds, who also confirmed with him that the contents accurately stated his position and his defence.
Mitchell, 28, and Richard Chatoo, 30, are before Ramsumair-Hinds at a judge-only trial. When they were arraigned in February, both men pleaded not guilty.
It is alleged that on a date unknown, between March 25 and 29, 2006, in Couva, the two murdered Sean Luke.
They are both remanded at the Maximum Security Prison in Arouca and attend court from the prison’s virtual court facility, since court and prison rules prohibit prisoners from attending court as a covid19 precaution.
The reading-out of the defence statement was in keeping with rule 14(1) of the criminal procedure rules which govern the conduct of criminal trials.
Mitchell, one of his attorneys, and a registrar of the High Court signed his defence statement. Dated March 10, and filed on March 16, it replaced two previously filed by his attorneys.
Chatoo’s has not yet been read to him.
When Mitchell's statement had been read out, and after technology-related issues were sorted out, Chatoo’s defence continued its challenge of the evidence, recalling Cpl Nigel Stephens, the police audiovisual technician who recorded an interview with Chatoo, then a pre-teen, by the police.
His evidence and that of retired Insp Azam Hamid were taken from the San Fernando High Court, where the judge, prosecutors and at least one of Chatoo’s attorneys were present for the sitting.
The matter continues on Friday, when two more retired police witnesses are expected to testify. The challenge, called a voir dire, is expected to end on Monday, and attorneys have been asked to file their submissions by April 1.
The judge is expected to rule on both Mitchell’s and Chatoo’s challenges after the Easter court break, after which the main trial is expected to begin.
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Young: Only courts can order sex offender to wear a bracelet
by Bavita Gopaulchan (T&T Guardian).
National Security Minister Stuart Young says only the courts can order an offender to wear an electronic monitoring device.
Young made the comment yesterday in response to calls by co-founder of the Operation Global Sex Offender Registry Jonathon Bhagan and children’s rights activist Dianna Mahabir-Wyatt for child sex predators to be fitted with bracelets so they could be tracked while out on bail. Their calls came on the heels of four men appearing before the courts on various sexual offences involving children. Noting most sexual predators were repeat offenders, they argued that bracelets could at least allow the police to track their whereabouts.
Commenting on the calls by the activists, Attorney General Faris Al-Rawi told Guardian Media during a telephone interview on Thursday that the “rule of law” was already in place and the Electronic Monitoring Unit had already been set up under the Ministry of National Security. This was also confirmed by Young when contacted by Guardian Media yesterday.
“I have said this repeatedly, the unit is ready and operational. Staff and equipment in place. It is up to the courts to make the orders,” Young said.
Guardian Media has sent several questions to the Judiciary on whether or not court orders have been made for offenders to use the devices. However, up to press time we received no response.
In 2012, the law allowing for the introduction of electronic monitoring devices into the criminal justice system was passed. A subsequent amendment to the law, referred to as the Administration of Justice (Electronic Monitoring) (Amendment) Bill 2020, was made last year. This introduced a clause mandating that the offender compensate the state for any device that is damaged while in use.
During the debate last May, Young told the Upper House that it costs $1.4 million for a batch of 150 and $1 million for 100 devices. The minister also noted at the time that Amalgamated Security had teamed up with Israeli firm Attenti to win a tender, which he assured was properly conducted by iGovTT, to purchase the devices, software and technical support.
The unit is currently manned by staff of the National Security Ministry with the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service providing enforcement.
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Guilty and guilty: Two convicted for brutal killing of Sean Luke, 6, in 2006
JADA LOUTOO (T&T NEWSDAY).
GUILTY verdicts have been passed on the two men on trial for the brutal murder of six-year-old Sean Luke in 2006.
Justice Lisa Ramsumair-Hinds delivered the verdicts on Friday against Akeel Mitchell and Richard Chatoo, both of whom were teenagers when they were arrested and charged for Luke’s murder.
“I weighed up all evidence globally and drew strands together from all the facts," the judge said. "I found that it all led to all inescapable inference, not...speculation.”
She said the killing was a planned, frenzied assault on Luke.
Mitchell, she said, buggered Luke, while Chatoo assisted and encouraged him, after which Mitchell sodomised Luke with a cane stalk.
She said Luke would have been in excruciating agony.
She told both men, “I find you guilty.”
It was alleged that on a date unknown, between March 25 and 29, 2006, in Orange Valley, Couva the two men murdered Sean Luke. They were charged jointly on the single indictment.
Chatoo, now 31, was 16 when he was arrested and charged. Mitchell, now 29, was weeks shy of 14.
The judge has fixed August 23 for sentencing. The men are likely to be sentenced at the court’s pleasure with a minimum sentence and periods of review fixed by the judge.
The death penalty cannot be imposed on those who were minors when they committed a crime and the judge said the law was clear, advising people not to clamour for the death penalty.
Mitchell and Chatoo had opted for a judge-only trial.
Ramsumair-Hinds provided her reasons for arriving at her verdict 14 days after the end of closing addresses, in keeping with the provisions of the legislation governing such trials.
She was also required by law to provide written reasons for coming to her verdict as the judge of the facts and law.
It took three hours for her to give her reasons. Friday’s reading of the verdict was streamed live on the Judiciary’s website. The video feed of the two men, who followed the judge’s ruling from the Maximum Security Prison virtual court facility, was not shown on the live stream, as ordered by the judge.
The State’s case rested mainly on circumstantial evidence, which featured the testimony of two other boys who said they last saw Luke enter the cane field where his body was found with Mitchell and Chatoo; the DNA evidence from the sperm fraction pointing to Mitchell; and the boy’s body found sodomised with a cane stalk, approximately 12 joints long, as described by Chatoo in his statement to the police.
Mitchell’s DNA profile was found on Luke’s underwear, but none of Chatoo’s was found on either Luke’s clothing or the piece of cane stalk, which ruptured his internal organs, causing his death.
On the day Luke went missing – March 26, 2006 – Chatoo said an older neighbour, Avinash Baboolal, asked if he wanted to go fishing with him and another boy from the area, Arvis Pradeep.
Both Baboolal and Pradeep testified for the prosecution, claiming Chatoo and Mitchell took Luke into the cane field. Neither saw Luke return.
State pathologist Dr Eslyn McDonald-Burris, who admitted the case still traumatised her, said the cause of death was “internal chest and abdominal injuries and haemorrhage due to a foreign object – a cane stalk – introduced into the body cavity.”
Luke’s body was found in the field near his home two days after he went missing.
Both men denied killing Luke. Mitchell raised an alibi and Chatoo alleged the statements he gave to the police, in which he implicated himself and Mitchell, were fabricated by the police and adduced as a result of oppression, trickery, force and inducement.
Chatoo testified. Mitchell did not.
In her ruling, the judge said she rejected their evidence and found as a fact that Luke was buggered and sodomised with the cane stalk and both men participated in the enterprise with the intent to kill or cause grievous bodily harm.
She said death happened during a few frenzied moments between 3pm and 6 pm, and Luke’s death came within minutes of the insertion of the cane stalk into his body.
Mitchell, she said, had the intention to commit murder when “he pushed the cane stalk until it had nowhere else to go,” while Chatoo intentionally assisted.
On at least three occasions, both before and after the trial started, the judge had been asked to rule on separate applications by Mitchell to permanently stay or quash his indictment. She declined, saying there was no risk to a fair trial for either man. She also overruled a no-case submission advanced for Mitchell by his attorneys.
Mitchell and Chatoo were represented by attorneys Mario Merritt, Evans Welch, Kirby Joseph, Randall Raphael, Kelston Pope and Gabriel Hernandez.
Assistant DPP Sabrina Dougdeen-Jaglal, Anju Bhola and Sophia Smith-Sandy prosecuted.
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March 25, 2006 - July 23, 2021
Four WCs took place before the verdict was rendered. Four!
Final stage qualification for a 5th WC will start less than 10 days after the sentencing date.
A child born in March 2006 is months shy of prospectively entering the job market.
:yellowcard: x 2.
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Neighbours angry as 2-year-old Kymani found dead
T&T Guardian Reports.
Thousands across the country and in the quiet community of Techier Village, Point Fortin, were tossed into grief yesterday, after two-year-old Kymani Francis was found dead in the Guapo river a day after he went missing.
The toddler was found by a member of a search and rescue group from the village shortly before 11 am. Guardian Media was told by officials that Kymani had blood in his nose when he was found.
Rescue teams had resumed their search for the boy from before 5 am, after the efforts involving hundreds of soldiers, police, hunters and community members on Monday failed to find him.
The search ended with the discovery of his body, face down in the water, clad only in the pamper he was wearing when he wandered from his house at 10.40 on Monday morning.
He was discovered in an area that was searched the day before.
In the direction the boy walked while heading towards a bushy area in the rural community the day before, he would have passed two wooden houses just off the roadway from the home he shared with his family.
A neighbour, who claimed she had observed Kymani veering away from his home, said she contacted the police while pursuing the boy. However, she explained that he was so far ahead of her that she lost sight of him after he turned a corner at the end of the street.
How did Kymani reach the river?
The barefooted toddler would have had to walk for nearly a mile from his home beneath the sweltering heat on an oil sand road and then venture off into a grassy track with stones and debris to reach where his body was found.
Investigators are trying to determine how he did all of this on his own.
Head of the search party Hard Ground Gets Soft, Ren Gopiesingh, also said it was unbelievable the toddler made the journey under the harsh conditions.
“The body was discovered close to the floodgate and for a toddler, that walk cannot be less than 20 minutes. For a baby to make that walk, it really hard. I made that walk several times myself and it was not easy,” he said.
Gopiesingh said the area of the river where the boy’s body was found was searched several times by members of his group and others on Monday.
“The Coast Guard, life guards, we and all were here. We were in the water, we did checks and searched that area and to know that was where the body was found, it really hard. I, as a father, it hard. As a parent losing your child is hard.”
Monday’s search exercises went beyond 11 pm and volunteers and villagers began searching before 5 am yesterday, prior to official search teams resuming their work.
Community failed toddler
As members of the community tried to piece together what happened, many expressed outrage over the circumstances that preceded his death.
Many questioned the presence of the boy’s parents, who were at home when he disappeared and also the role of the female neighbour who said she pursued and contacted the police when she saw the toddler wandering off.
The neighbour has since come under heavy criticism for not doing more to recover Kymani, despite her claims that she attempted to follow the boy.
In an interview posted on social media yesterday, she said, “I just kept going, I was calling boy, I was looking all over, there’s a river right there. I checked both sides of the river, when I reached I couldn’t find him. I kept going.”
Police escorted the woman to the place where the boy’s body was found yesterday.
Tempers flared as villagers gathered outside her home, as they insisted she could have done more.
“So you, because the mother ain’t come out, you can’t come out and bring the child for the mother...there is a God and he sees and he knows,” one woman said.
Point Fortin MP Kennedy Richards said the incident had left a cloud of gloom over the community.
“I was looking at him there and I was saying that could happen to anybody. I’m not going to cast aspersions on the family but as a community, we would have failed that young man. The neighbour saw him wandering off, there were some guys cutting grass for Heritage that saw him and you know what, nobody stopped him and that is where we failed.”
Mayor Saleema Thomas held back the tears as she lamented little Kymani’s tragic end.
“What can a little one do to deserve such cruelty? So I want to plead with the persons out there that our children are our future and if we continue to create such harm for our children there is no future for us.”
An autopsy will be conducted on the toddler to determine the cause of death.
PM saddened by death
Prime Minister Dr Keith Rowley has expressed sadness over the death of two-year-old Kymani Francis.
Dr Rowley issued a brief statement on his Facebook page yesterday, saying he trusts “that in times like these we commit even more than ever, to be our brother’s keeper.”
“A child is dead and this entire nation is torn to our deep within. We all have questions to ask ourselves not the least of which is whether this tender life could have been saved,” Dr Rowley said.
He added: “The vast majority of us do not know this child or this family but that does not insulate us from the deep disturbing sorrow that washes over our nation tonight. This sad end is not what we were praying and hoping for even as we struggle with a constant stream of violence, domestic and otherwise.”
“I, among the many shocked and saddened citizens, extend my deepest sympathy to the family and the Pt Fortin community and trust that in times like these we commit even more than ever, to be our brother’s keeper as we extend ourselves in support as far as we are able.”
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Tempers flared as villagers gathered outside her home, as they insisted she could have done more.
This is indeed sad. I am now a grandfather of 4 ranging in ages from 3 yrs to 3 months. Two were born this year. This story is very painful since I have been doing some serious baby sitting. I am booked from later today thru Monday. Their parents need a little free time. I still pray I do things right when they are in my care. Actually, I praying harder. You don' know when craziness go happen.
Let's wait for the real story, if they are able to resolve this. This is the same attitude we are seeing and hearing when reports of children(Afro Trini children) fighting on videos(whether staged or not). It is always after the fact rabble rousing.
Don't talk about the gun death videos circulating of Afro Trini wiping out theyself(self inflicted holocaust) going in plain site of the AfroTrini community. Only the AfroTrini communities can resolve this. No gov't, no NGOs, I dare to say no religeous group seem capable of helping Black youths. The real problem is Black fathers or father figures. They appear or are failing in controlling our "Black Hens chickens". There is so much the Black Hens can do. They have been doing double duty far too long. Excuse me for the rambling on.