Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: E-man on June 25, 2006, 05:07:41 AM
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Hoolies clash with hosts
Toronto Star
Jun. 25, 2006. 01:00 AM
Police broke up two brief but violent disturbances involving English soccer fans yesterday, arresting more than 300 people the day before England plays Ecuador in a World Cup second-round match.
Following Germany's 2-0 win over Sweden, English and German fans clashed in a plaza near outdoor viewing screens in Stuttgart. German fans were singing in celebration when England fans began throwing plastic chairs and bottles at them, said police.
Five Germans were injured before officers in riot gear separated the two sides, a pile of upended chairs and shards of broken glass between them. Police two or three deep corralled the English fans and waded into the crowd, arresting them one by one. In all, 200 people were arrested, most of them English, police spokesperson Stefan Keilbach said.
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i hope this is a one off with the english...they seemed to have a grasp on that rubish
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the germans jus doh like the english dreadie, I sure many of allyuh hear the germans complaining bout how loud and drunk the english fans were, but the germans fans were drunk and loud same, same way. I also hear complaints bout the swedes too. I jus feel dey vex that they could possibly be outnumbered in certain spots in they own country.
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If I am not mistaken this is the 2nd clash and set of arrest in Stuttgart. Also while i was there some train schedules were messed up as some English fans were pulled off some trains. It amazes me how they are able to find known holligans with the 10s of thousands of people over there.
On my first day in Dusselfdorf there was a quick bloody dustup, where some germans put it on an english fella, they had just beaten Costa Rica
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the germans jus doh like the english dreadie, I sure many of allyuh hear the germans complaining bout how loud and drunk the english fans were, but the germans fans were drunk and loud same, same way. I also hear complaints bout the swedes too. I jus feel dey vex that they could possibly be outnumbered in certain spots in they own country.
come bro....english known for the hooligan behaviour think the name is jus for so. i saw it on tv and it jus how it was writtten. the germans didnt even figt back much they just moved. endligh jus rush n n start throwing chairs n shit. real arseholeness.. I hope they eh do de same shit after ecquador cut dey ass... lord it hott today.lol
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the germans jus doh like the english dreadie, I sure many of allyuh hear the germans complaining bout how loud and drunk the english fans were, but the germans fans were drunk and loud same, same way. I also hear complaints bout the swedes too. I jus feel dey vex that they could possibly be outnumbered in certain spots in they own country.
You sure you was at the same worldcup? The english fans are disgusting when they are drunk.
I really hope you were being sarcastic cause wasnt just the germans complaining bout them english fans.
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I would not believe that message. Germany is very bias and so is the Police. Take it from me something else might have transpired and the German would not tell that part of the story. English are noted to be rowdy and that is all the polizie here needs to know you are guilty before proven inocent if you are a foriegner. Trust me on this one I have years of experience.
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I would not believe that message. Germany is very bias and so is the Police. Take it from me something else might have transpired and the German would not tell that part of the story. English are noted to be rowdy and that is all the polizie here needs to know you are guilty before proven inocent if you are a foriegner. Trust me on this one I have years of experience.
like dey pull u in a station already.lol....
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Yes but thats irrelivant. I have had other experiences too. This country is not all that the WC experiences you guys had built it up to be.
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No no no dis is all wrong. yes the english have a reputation for this..but no this world cup they were doing great.
Germany is very bias. On neutral grounds - interviewing the german and english police working together..they said english fans were drunk alredy enjoying themselves..when the germans came out causing mayhem..and the german police said " we didnt see who threw the first bottle " but the clips show the german guy running in picking up a chair and throwing it. I cant beliv that how biased it is. I saw on the footage alot of english fan trying to stop the fights.
it is true germans dont like english bcuz of the war.
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There was also a clash between German and Polish fans in Dortmund involving about a dozen people or so. The media really played it down, only showing a few seconds of footage. Said they didn't want to "glorify" it - maybe they were embarrassed Germany might have started it. Lol in the US you would have breaking news report after report showing it over and over again.
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yeah thats how it is here. England and German fans clash is the main headline... the footage being shown again and again and again. 200 arrests were made of the english fans but 120 were realeased and the othr 80 were banned from the square. I think thats alright. Serisous tho the germans are playing it down. it was mainly there hard doing.
The clash between german and polish was to do with the war i heard.. Germans bragging about how they invaded poland.. i bet they didnt show that in germany.
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They did but of course they blamed the Polish.
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Must have been the polish fault for not stopping hitler themselves.
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the germans jus doh like the english dreadie, I sure many of allyuh hear the germans complaining bout how loud and drunk the english fans were, but the germans fans were drunk and loud same, same way. I also hear complaints bout the swedes too. I jus feel dey vex that they could possibly be outnumbered in certain spots in they own country.
come bro....english known for the hooligan behaviour think the name is jus for so. i saw it on tv and it jus how it was writtten. the germans didnt even figt back much they just moved. endligh jus rush n n start throwing chairs n shit. real arseholeness.. I hope they eh do de same shit after ecquador cut dey ass... lord it hott today.lol
Don't know what you were looking at probably an American or German feed cause the TV pictures I saw clearly showed Germans giving just as good as they got and they certainly outnumbered the English fans. The English say it was started by a German fan throwing a bottle into the English crowd after they took offence to the songs the English fans were singing (believe that if you wish ::) ). From my experience England fans truly get a very raw deal, the sad thing is they know it gonna happen (intimidation and selective reporting) yet they can't help responding, so, in a sad way England Fans deserve everything they get. I remember watching live footage in the UK of about 1000 German and Turkish fans clash in Belgium in Euro 2000 resulting a the death of a plainclothes German policeman and about £1 million pounds of damage yet CNN and Fox perfered to show footage of 200 English fans getting blasted with a watercannon! Don't get me wrong there are some horrible English Fans and more than the Government like to admit but I've seen intimidation firsthand...its all well and good to have a go when yuh based in T&T or N.America but I'm sure the Trini's based in Europe will support me in saying The Dutch,Germans,Polish and Italians also have notorious and violent fans of their own...its just that English fans always travel in greater numbers and so get more publicity.
As for the arrests, the German police say most were 'preventative' rather than due to massive dustups in the street. Apparently they got concerned when English fans started to chant 'racist' songs (how ah song from mainly white people abusing mainly white people from another country could be called racist ? It crazy how Each Euro country does call themselves a race now!) and fearing a backlash from German fans asked them to move on...those that didn't and continued were arrested. According to the UK police they encouraged the German police to do it on both days.
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Today they did a pole on German radio about the English violence and many German called ion and said it was the German PPL that started the whole incident. Never believe every thing you read in German
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It's almost impossible to find out "who started", but I can say for sure that every country has its iddiots and when it comes to soccer, there are definitely too many idiots...especially in Germany, England, Poland...I Don't know who started the clash (and really don't care) because both the English AND the Germans are very capable of starting a fight in just about ANY situation...even more when drunk. What's important is that not all Germans or English are like that and most people are ashamed for their "countrymen" who love getting involved in these fights. I also believe that it is not the fans who like to get into fights, but the hooligans, and hooligans are not fans...they just go to games in order to rumble...sad, but true.
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I was in Stuttgart. However, i cannot give a report of what happened at the time because we were 100 yards away enjoying the enormous street party which was completely unaffected by what was gong on. As were loads of England fans around me.
However, having travelled to England games for over 16 years we come across problems. Because of our previous reputation, every time England travel sometimes a section of the travelling support can be subject to provocation because either the home fans want to prove themselves as 'taking on the English' .. or they know it will cause a situation. That's why when you see England fans travel, you get a core (say 500 or so) at the main focus of a city (like the square) and like 10 to 100 times as many England fans anywhere but where the core is because they know if somebody wanted to cause friction with them, it will be there and they really dont want to be part of it.
facts ....
100,000 england fans travelled to cologne (only 4,000 official tickets)
60,000 fans travelled to stuttgart
all the newspapers keep writing and the radio and tv keep talking about is how the 'complexion' of travelling england fan has changed. and this hooligan tag they have had for years is a nonsense as there as so many good natured england fans travelling to see their team now
i met an english policeman in frankfurt who i know (he's the local officer for the team i support - Brentford) the day before the stuttgart bizness and he said to date the police were 'surprised' and 'pleased' how 'good natured' the england fans had been and his german counterparts thought that they were well up there as one of the sets of 'fans of the tournament' because, even though there is admittedly a lot of drinking and singing, they were there for fun and not to make trouble. they also said the locals were afraid of the english before the tournament but since it has started, have realised that this whole hooligan hype is a nonsense. they have worse problems in their own country
he also told me that the stuttgart police were MUCH firmer than any other police force. two yellow cards and you are off. so if you are warned to not do something (eg. dont stand on that table, stand back off the kerb or whatever) and you disobey twice, they dont just blow their whistle - they go in full blown with truncheons.
this bit of foresite he gave me no more than 8 hrs before the 'riot'. the amount of arrsets shows that the police were indisciminate. and they also admitted 'messing up' by allowing the germans to come out of the fan park and provoke the england fans. the chief of police said something like 'oh .. yes it might have been started by germans .. we made a mistake'.
what a nonsense. i know a guy who was the advisor to police to euro 2004. he gave the portugese police detailed information on how to handle football fans and they listened. there was no trouble. apparently the germans said they did not need him and his advice as they do things their way.
that trouble could have been avoided easily!
speaking to people who were on 'the frontline' apparently the germans did come out of the fanfest and started throwing bottles at the english
i am not going to condone the england contingent who decided to fight back because some people will say 'look ... lets just let it go ... and turn their back and walk away'. but it obviously sparked of something here which escalated rapidly.
but the police waded in full monty .. and singlehandedly targetted ANY english person who was in the area. scary!!!
that's why the figures are so inflated.
question - if it was such a battle, then anyone knows 200 arrests is a HUGE figure .. and there would have been proper hospital cases. there weren't
also it is true that german neo nazis come down to dortmnud a few days after the trini game to do battle with the poles. if i am corect, over 400 germans were arrested that day. they tried to hush it up
over 100 neo nazis also came down to cologne to see if they could cause trouble with the english. but they didnt because they were constantly under surveillance. and there were two many english for the neo nazis. and the english were not interested in causing trouble as they were having too much fun. the police ended up rounding up these neo nazis and they ended up having a battle with the police (including bottles etc) and they got arrested and rounded up. this was hushed up.
The ironic thing is these incidents are so isolated for the total party atmosphere occuring around the whole world cup. as i said, one street back there were tens of thousands of england and german fans partying together in one of the biggest street parties ive seen this world cup completely OBLIVIOUS to the malarkey happening with the 500 or so people next door.
60,000 england fans in stuttgart
100,000 england fans in cologne
police used a sledgehammer to smash a walnut in stuttgart
please dont tar us all with the same brush!!!
you can check out the runnings on the olde blog
www.billythebee.co.uk ..
lots of trini photos there
you will see it was noting but good vibes. in fact theres even video footage in the square in stuttgart no more than 4 hrs before the 'trouble', with england and german fans having friendly banter!!!!
Enjoy!!!
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I am a Native American-German (German citizen) and also have very many friends (also German citizens, but who's roots come from Poland, France, Russia, England) and if there's one thing that really made us nervous as we heard the World Cup would take place in Germany was the topic: neo nazis...Believe it or not, Poland also has very many neo nazis (which I really CANNOT understand, but is nonetheless a fact). Logically, most of our friends over here are (real) Germans, but strictly AGAINST neo nazis! I just want everybody to know that most Germans over here are not racist, but we still have some idiots who are stuck in the past, just like England or France, for that matter. I am really ashamed for all neo nazis...no matter what nationality! I just hope people don't think all Germans are like the few neo nazis we unfortunately still have...The fact that everybody is pointing their fingers at the Germans is easy...they don't have to try to cross the German border...they're already here, sadly enough.
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my World Cup experience was great, i meet alot of really cool germans and had a much warmer reception than i expected. There were a couple instances of racism but nothing hardcore, in fact i found that most Germans went out of their way to show a friendlier face
every country has it's idiots and people we would much rather hide from the world, i myself fell for the whole english hoolagan story but in truth the english fans were really cool and i had a great time drinking and liming with them before an after our game. The only person who showed any truly disgusing behaviour was a trini who abused a waiter in a restaurant for a glass of water, all the trinis and Germans looked equally ashamed
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It takes 2 or more people to start a fight...and sometimes should just learn to ignore. Generally people quick to get vex and then everything else just spirals downwards...
I went to the T&T vs. Sweden game with a friend from England. He born and has lived in England most of his life except for a few years when he lived in T&T because he was posted there.
As we were walking with the crowd, a Swedish guy dresses only in a pair of yellow and blue boxers, quite drunk came over to us, and said I am so sorry, so sorry for the 4 goals we will score on you. You guys beat Suriname, but you are facing the mighty Swedes... He kept on saying so sorry for at least 15 mins, whilst his buddy tried to steer him away from us...I just smiled and ignored him, it was hard because he was really iritating us, but I ent leave home to fly quite to hell to Germany to fight wth nobody. My English fried was extremely irritated andsaid if I was not there, or if this was done to some Englsih fans, he surely would have the sh!t kicked out of him loooong time.
I know this could be an isolated incident, but I say let the jackass bray... If Sweden win well they were expected to win anyway, but if we won or drew, then I would have the last laugh.. I looked for the guy after the game to say So sorry so sorry, but I could not find him...
Many incidents can be avoided by just simply ignoring the comments.
Most of the Swdes and English I met were very nice and came to shake my hand after the game and said good game you guys deserved at least a point or You guys really scared us. It takes 2 fools to start something, and then they partner jump in and then somebody get shove and all of a sudden is a big fight....
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the germans jus doh like the english dreadie, I sure many of allyuh hear the germans complaining bout how loud and drunk the english fans were, but the germans fans were drunk and loud same, same way. I also hear complaints bout the swedes too. I jus feel dey vex that they could possibly be outnumbered in certain spots in they own country.
come bro....english known for the hooligan behaviour think the name is jus for so. i saw it on tv and it jus how it was writtten. the germans didnt even figt back much they just moved. endligh jus rush n n start throwing chairs n shit. real arseholeness.. I hope they eh do de same shit after ecquador cut dey ass... lord it hott today.lol
you sound like the kinda fella that does stereotype. maybe you should take a read on exactly hw the english have gone about preventing the hooligans from travelling during the world cup. some even have to check in every day in england and are barred from pubs in England.
an English guy I met before the sweden match was telling me of a BBC report of one holigan who took a small boat like a pirogue and went over to denmark, and just started crtossing borders by foot, train, bike all kinda ting until the authorities ketch up with hiim in austria and send him home. You just had to be there to understand bro - how many trinis on this forum fed up of hearing drunk germans singing - Deutchland!! Deutchland! at the top of their lungs, and they want to criticize english fans for being drunk and singing?
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I hav 2 say it is mostly the germans causing trouble bcuz they know they is on home ground. and whoever it was saying dat the germans just stood there while the english threw chairs..that is a lie the footage was shown and only a few english fan react when the german fans start...but anyone wud do that..if u got a chair thrown at u r u saying in the spur of the moment u wudnt throw it back.
i feel the germans are trying to stir too much trouble . Not all but quite alot. dey know english fans will react , just like the polish did..so they do it again
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@ bounty killer, Yes, it is VERY annoying to hear this constant "Deutschland!! Deutschland!!" from the (drunk) fans...I agree all the way. It's o.k. to be for the German team, but this exaggerated patriotism from some really can get on one's nerves!!! I hear my neighbor all the time, and my son can't sleep because of it...it's just too much. I, as a German, must say I really hope Germany doesn't win!!! Maybe then it will calm down here a little. Actually, it became pretty boring the day the Soca Warriors left the counrty...not a lie.
@ jub02, you're right...the Germans are causing much trouble, because it's so easy for them, considering that they are on home grounds. I do believe, though, that if the WC were in France, it would be primarily the French fans causing trouble, or if it was in England then it would be primarily the English fans, or in Poland the Polish, etc...I'm NOT trying to defend the Germans, but I believe that I just may be right...at least a little
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Just one last comment on the comment michimausi made above re trouble will be cause by whatever fans the tournament is in
That is not true
In 1996 the European Championships has held in England. There were widespread newspaper rumours before it started that the tournament would be a bloodbath and there would be loads of trouble. There was not one bit of trouble as far as I know and practially zero arrests. Its was seen as the turn around point for English fans as people saw for once the 98% of fans who want to watch the football and enjoy themselves and not just the 2% of troublemakers. Also English police showed that you can organise a big tournament, bring loads of teams together and still have a good atmosphere, against all odds, if you know what you are doing (as opposed to the Belgian police or the police in Stuttgart).
In 1998 in France the French caused no trouble. If anyone knows anthing about French football, they have absolutely NO INTEREST in football whatsoever. The country only started getting excited when they got to the quarter finals. A lot of people said, and still say, that France should not even hold a major football tournament because of the people's apathy to the sport. If anyone went to the champions league in paris betwen arsenal and barcelona (i went .. even though i dont support arsenal .. i just went for the jokes .. i just enjoy going to any football if there are jokes) you would not even known there was a game in town the locals were so miserable and not interested. you had to struggle to find a screen to wach the match and the bar people were moaning about the crowds and having to serve people and that. it was a nonsense!
However, one of the most cowardly bits of trouble in world cup 1998 was a load of german neo nazi hooligans set on this policeman and put him in hospital. i think he was permanently crippled. There were also problems with England fans in Marseilles which i will never condone. This put a downer for a lot of us in that tournament as we were labelled wherever we went.
However, for us things have got remarkably better since then and anyone who went to Japan for the last world cup will know it was just one big LOVE FEST. There are a lot of England fans still living in japan after meeting their 'perfect match.
2004 the Portugese caused no trouble. That was trouble free. Interestingly there were as many England fans as usual (50,000 plus) but Germans etc etc dont tend to travel so well the further the competition is away from their home soil. And they tend to only come out for the latter stages too.
Having travelling internationally with England for twenty years you get a feel for who is playing ball on the 'lets be sociable front' and who are not.
There is a big problem in Eastern Europe at the moment. I was in Slovakia when over 20,000 slovakians constantly monkey chanted all the black england players like Ashley Cole and Emile Heskey. It was kinda scary as the police were (and this is no lie) worse thugs than the local fans. Skinheadded. Black uniform. Big trunchions and extremely happy when they got the opportunity to beat anyone in sight. This was actually the first time that I had fellow England fans come up to me complaining that the locals were 'abusing our black players'. When one or two fans retaliated (the police allowed the home fans to throw coins and plastic bottles filled with drink into the England fans section which was directly beside their section and to monkey chant. Some fans said they saw some policemen monkeychanting too) by either chanting or returning a bottle over the fence, the Slovakian police waded in on the whole English crowd like Ive never seen before. It was scary!
Poland also has huge problems both with hooliganism and extreme right wingism. I refused to travel there when England played them because of the stories I had heard. As a black man, not a safe place to go to international football.
Spain has some archaic far right thing going on and their fans monkey chanted the England players in Spain only a few years ago and their coach Aragones (or Arrogant) called Theirry Henry a "black s*it" then when questioned said he hadnt done anything wrong.
Italy is a bit scary. It has an exterme right wing thing going on which is accepted by the authorities. Clubs like Lazio are extremely right wing. Livorno are extreme left and Roma are left wing too. It's interesting when these teams meet because it's a battle of political ideologies as well as football. For lazio The fans (ultras) carry banners with right wing symbols on them. And players like Paulo Di Canio who used to play for West ham and Aston Villa till a few years ago, gets transferred back to Lazio and openly nazi salutes his home fans from the pitch then tells the world he isnt doing anything wrong. he is just paying homage to his hero mussolini or some nonsense like that (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/12/24/wpaolo24.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/12/24/ixworld.html). And what did the Italian auhorities do? Fined him $15,000. He uttered the classic line "Im a facist not a racist"! Many of these fans travel to international matches. Saying that Italian fans dont travel THAT well. only when they get to semi finals.
The east of Germany in particular is where a lot of problems like. Leipzig, Dresden etc etc. There is a lot of unemployment in these parts and of course the extreme right use it as an excuse to drum up support.
Croatia has problems too!!!
Saying that, there are a lot of people in Germany. And a lot of good people too. We had a blast as did most of you did at the World Cup. To date the average German has had issues with "waving the flag" and showing outwardly supportt of 'nationalism' and 'supporting the german football team' because of the country's history and its association with the extreme right wing back in the day. The amount of German fans who said to me "its strange for me to be waving a flag .. but its nice bcause so many people are doing it". The flag has been reclaimed in germany. Just as it was done in the mid 90s in England. English football suffered the same problems in the 80s and early 90s. The extreme right wing had used the Union Jack and then the flag of St George as a symbol of their presence at England international games. The flag was reclaimed in Euro 1996 when photos of black, white and asian kids were in every tabliod newspaper and people waved the flag to show support of their football team. In England now everyone - indian, tuckish, black has no problem wearing England colours and waving the flag for the world cup. That would never have happened 12 years ago!!
In germany most of us will be completely unaffected by the influx of a few of the bad characters as there are SO MANY PEOPLE at the world cup, the nasty crew will not be able to affect the carnival atmosphere because they will simply be outnumbered tens of thousands to one.
However, before we try and tar England fans with the same olde stories that have been running in the press for years, people should realise there is more dark and nasty stuff going out there elsewhere in Europe that very often doesnt get reported. And for us (believe it or not) things are 10,000 times better than they used to be 10 years ago!
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On a side note for my 12 days in Germany I saw just one evening of unrest..................in frankfurt for the Holland Argentina game.
Dutch fans were beating Aregntinans and also fighting with other dutch fans including chairs being thrown and the police had to wade in.
Did we see anything on the news ?
Not one dam thing
If I did not see it myself I would havent known about it.
Dont believe everything you see on TV
also on a side not people forget the size of englands support, all it takes is .5 % of 100,000 supporters acting like idiots and you have 500 pricks !
There was a drunk Trini after the Sweden game acting like a real idiot and deserved a beating so we had our problem too but just on a much smaller scale !
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@ billythebee,
hello. I must say I am very impressed with what you wrote, & I have to admit (considering the fact that you've been traveling around for 20 years) that you surely know what you're talking about, and have proved me wrong...I really hope, though, you didn't feel affended with what I wrote, because I really don't want to affend anybody. Like I said, I would never defend the right-winged people, no matter from which country! It is true, there are many problems in the eastern part of Germany and Eastern Europe. That's a fact nobody can deny...I've been beaten up here myself once, just because I have foreign friends, But I am more than glad to have read out of your last entry, that there are lots of good people in Germany. I believe there are lots of good people in every country. I have also traveled around Europe a little (throughout Germany, England, Czech Republick, France, Belgium, Holland, Switzerland...mostly because of concerts) and I have met mostly nice people (at least 99 %)! Of course, @ssholes will/can be found anywhere, but they were never the majority, no matter where I was. No matter where we were, we always found a place to sleep, and mostly the people were complete strangers, but always extremely kind. I'm very glad that so many people, foreigners as well as Germans, had a great time (& are still having a great time) over here. That's the way it was meant to be.
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just for clarity, when you say there are nice people in every country, are you including France in that?? Maybe there are nice people in france, they are just a bit harder to find ;D
serioulsy, two very good posts.
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On a side note for my 12 days in Germany I saw just one evening of unrest..................in frankfurt for the Holland Argentina game.
Dutch fans were beating Aregntinans and also fighting with other dutch fans including chairs being thrown and the police had to wade in.
Did we see anything on the news ?
Not one dam thing
If I did not see it myself I would havent known about it.
Dont believe everything you see on TV
also on a side not people forget the size of englands support, all it takes is .5 % of 100,000 supporters acting like idiots and you have 500 pricks !
There was a drunk Trini after the Sweden game acting like a real idiot and deserved a beating so we had our problem too but just on a much smaller scale !
I was at that game and did not see nor hear about that.
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this was not at the game this was in the main square in the afternoon before the game.
And that is my point less than 300 metres away people were drinking happily together and had no idea what was going on.
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just for clarity, when you say there are nice people in every country, are you including France in that?? Maybe there are nice people in france, they are just a bit harder to find ;D
serioulsy, two very good posts.
Yes, I wrote "in every country" because that's what I meant...in every country. Since France is a country, I meant France as well. I saw an interesting report just a few days ago and in an international survey, France was voted as the country with the rudest people...nonetheless, I know a few French people & have been in France a few times & have only met very kind people...I don't know where the meanies are hiding. :) I'm sure they're there, but I haven't met any yet...
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just for clarity, when you say there are nice people in every country, are you including France in that?? Maybe there are nice people in france, they are just a bit harder to find ;D
serioulsy, two very good posts.
Yes, I wrote "in every country" because that's what I meant...in every country. Since France is a country, I meant France as well. I saw an interesting report just a few days ago and in an international survey, France was voted as the country with the rudest people...nonetheless, I know a few French people & have been in France a few times & have only met very kind people...I don't know where the meanies are hiding. :) I'm sure they're there, but I haven't met any yet...
I work for a French company. I can show you plenty of Meanies. ;D
I can show you a lot of nice frenchies as well. :beermug: