Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum

Sports => Football => Topic started by: Flex on August 26, 2006, 04:40:07 AM

Title: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Flex on August 26, 2006, 04:40:07 AM
Warriors coach not sold on Pro league.
By: Lasana Liburd (Express).


NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
Trinidad and Tobago national football team coach Wim Rijsbergen defended his decision to cancel international friendly matches against Mexico and Colombia yesterday by explaining that the majority of locally-based players, at present, were too far from the desired standard.
Rijsbergen, a former Holland World Cup player and assistant to compatriot Leo Beenhakker at the 2006 World Cup, said last month's 2-0 loss away to Japan-his first game as head coach-convinced him that the present crop are not yet ready to play on their own, particularly in terms of fitness, speed of play and physical approach.
He will prefer to use them alongside the country's senior European-based players who were unavailable for duty in proposed fixtures yesterday and on Wednesday against Mexico and Colombia respectively.
"We played (primarily) with the local guys in Japan and there is still quite a difference in level," Rijsbergen told the Sunday Express.
"International football is on another level to what the Pro League is playing and the J-League is on a higher level than the Pro League here. That is the reality."
The Dutchman said that he watches Pro League matches every week and is in the perfect position to assess the standard of local football. He insisted that, if the players were good enough, they would be selected regardless of where they played their football.
However, three Pro League coaches felt that a valuable opportunity to expose young talent was lost.
Vibe CT 105 W Connection's Stuart Charles-Fevrier, CL Financial San Juan Jabloteh's Terry Fenwick and United Petrotrin's Brian Williams-all former Pro League Coach of the Year winners and international players-would have preferred that the Pro League players receive a chance to show their international worth on home soil.
Williams, who is an assistant coach to the national under-20 squad, said he felt T&T had nothing to lose by fielding a team against Mexico and Colombia and thought the public would understand if the "Soca Warriors" lost.
He believed, as did Fevrier, that the possible benefit of widening the national player pool outweighed the negatives.
"A coach's reputation is always at stake," said Williams, a standout with the famous 1989 "Strike Squad", "but I think we only needed to make the public aware that the game is about exposing our young talent and they would understand.
Nearly half of the players who went to the (2006) World Cup won't be available for 2010 and I think this was a great chance to give (our possible future players) some exposure."
Fenwick, a former World Cup player with England, agreed. His Jabloteh squad contributed eight of the players who travelled to Japan.
"I am extremely disappointed that they didn't have a chance to perform at home, especially as there have been no games here since the World Cup," said Fenwick.
"Unless these guys get exposure, they will never be able to show whether they are up to the international standard."
Fevrier, who coached the national team from May 2003 to January 2004, said the cancellation was a blow to the morale of the Pro League and its players and felt Rijsbergen might have been too hasty.
"It was their first game at that level and to judge them on that one game is harsh," said the ex-St Lucian star.
"We still have a lot of room for improvement but I think they are capable of improvement and it is not as though Japan blew them away... We were able to create goal scoring chances and, after conceding two early goals, were able to keep scores level in the second half.
"They can only grow from that experience."
Dexter Skeene, Pro League CEO and ex-Strike Squad player, also pointed out that locally-based players like Aurtis Whitley, Cyd Gray, Densill Theobald and Anthony Wolfe all showed they could rise to international standard once given the necessary exposure.
Rijsbergen's decision might be unpopular in certain quarters but he insisted that he is putting things into place for the 2010 World Cup and is working to improve the standard of youth football in Trinidad and Tobago.
"If you want to improve the individual quality of players, you need to get them to train with better players" he said. "I think a mix between the local and overseas players is ideal."
The fact that the present Pro League players were not playing in more competitive and lucrative leagues abroad, Rijsbergen suggested, might also indicate some deficiencies on their parts.
"If (foreign managers) think some of these guys are ready to play, they will bring them over," said Rijsbergen. "If they are good enough (even if they do not have sufficient international caps), they (foreign clubs) will put them to play in another country (with less strict work permit regulations) until they got enough international games to play for them.
"I am the one who saw the game against Japan."
Still, Rijsbergen will be forced to play without the majority of his Europe-based players at the Digicel Cup, which kicks off in early 2007 and is outside the FIFA window.
He said that the national squad would comprise mostly Pro League and United States-based players for that competition.
The local players did not get the opportunity to show their worth in national colours this week. But they will hope to catch Rijsbergen's eyes with their domestic form before next January.
News from the 02nd of September 2006.

Rijsbergen aims for unified approach.
By: Shaun Fuentes.
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National Team head coach Wim Rijsbergen is aiming to coincide the development of younger locally-based players with the ones who continue to ply their trade abroad and can continue to make a contribution to the “Soca Warriors” on the international level.
This is with the intention of lifting the standard of home-based players and at the same time, maintaining a decent show on the international stage as more countries are now paying attention to T&T and wanting to come up against the best of what the 2006 World Cup finalists have to offer.
Clearly emphasizing that the experience of qualifying for Germany 2006 and subsequently performing on the world stage as a phenomenal achievement and experience for the country, Rijsbergen pointed out that the scenario of then, when he arrived last year with Leo Beenhakker, is different to present day.
“It was a different situation then because when we came in there were dates set, arrangements were made in anticipation of what we were heading into. But now we have to in some way also start it over again but also keep the momentum of what we had with us at the World Cup,” Rijsbergen told TTFF Media on Friday.
As such, he says greater emphasis must be placed on cooperation among the parties involved in local football as well as those who hold an interest in it.
“I’m here as head coach for a month now and already we had the Under 16s, we had one senior international game with Japan and then there’s Under 20s coming up. People must understand that it all takes time and a bigger effort.
“Of course the nice thing will be if we can all work together and T&T will be the winner in the end. We don’t need people only making all kinds of comments but why not also have positive contribution from where all parties can benefit.
“Again we always hear about the standard of local players but we have seen a lot of them and of course they will be part of the future of the National Senior team and Olympic teams (trying to qualify for the China Olympics). We went to Japan and played with the local guys and they saw that we need a bit more than just playing football. I am a fan of improving players by playing against better teams but I’m also a fan of trying to use your best players to improve the quality of the younger less experienced players. That’s the idea of wanting to use our best team for the international games and it was disappointing that some of the European managers were not keen on letting our players come for the two games this month.
“The future is about seeing the best available players in the local league and involving them with the best guys we have from overseas who can still play at the level and getting the best team ready for 2010,” Rijsbergen added.
The former Dutch World Cup player lamented the fact that other countries also want to play against the best possible opposition and are rarely interested in playing against less than full strength opposition.
“Sometimes you have to be realistic.  I have seen a lot of Pro League games and we will pick up the guys with the quality and age to improve. There’s a reason why some guys play in other countries and that’s because they have proven that they are good enough to go into another level and some  people have no idea what the next level is about and they have comments. International football is a bit different and we saw it at the World Cup and we had to go all out in order to compete well.”
“At the end of the day all we can do is work together -  at schools,  the Pro League and at the national level. There must be one goal which is to get the best teams possible at the age groups for tournaments because that’s where you are judged.”
He spoke too about the need for the development of some of the training grounds around the country, at least those that the national teams use.
“We are facing some problems and maybe that’s where the Government could be of greater help in the future and assist with grounds or with the national training centre with different facilities. With the screening sessions that we have had, if it rains then the session has to be cancelled or stopped. We have had Under 20 sessions and everytime it rains it turns out to be more of a swimming pool than a decent field. Mr Warner is the one trying to get an artificial turf ready so teams can train there when the weather is bad. And the clubs as well should have the type of facility that is suitable for a professional club. I have seen the Under 16s having to share a field or a university with a club or use the Savannah.
“This is all part of the development and it is all part of getting players and teams better. I understand fully that everyone here wants to be coaches and make comments. It’s the same thing in Holland where we have 16 million people and the same number of coaches. But at least let’s try to get things right before saying things and maybe even positive resistance if there is a need to do that,” Rijsbergen said.
He mentioned too that efforts are being made to have two friendly international in October as he attempts to get preparations going for the Digicel Cup Finals here next January.
News from the 31st of August 2006.

Sydney seeks new marquee player as Yorke leaves.
By: Sydney FC Website.
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Sydney FC has re-affirmed its determination to remain at the forefront of the Hyundai A-League by seeking a new marquee player following news that Dwight Yorke has confirmed a move to English Championship club Sunderland.
Yorke will spend the next two seasons playing under former team mate Roy Keane after Sydney FC and Sunderland agreed to a transfer for an undisclosed fee.
Sydney FC Chairman Walter Bugno, while sad to see Yorke leave, wished the 34-year-old good luck as he continues his football career in the north of England.
“Dwight Yorke has made an unbelievable contribution to Sydney FC and Australian football and we wish him nothing but luck in his new endeavours with Sunderland,” Bugno said.
“Sydney FC has always maintained that marquee players have an important role to play in the early stages of the Hyundai A-League. Before the A-League started we believed in the principal of a marquee player and now we have seen the advantages, on and off the field, we will set out to find another player who can contribute as much to the game as Dwight has since he arrived last year.
“Our coaching staff will start drawing up a list of targets straight away and I am in Europe for the next two weeks so I am available to meet with any prospective marquee players.”
Sydney FC Coach Terry Butcher, who is in Melbourne preparing for Saturday night’s clash with the Melbourne Victory, was disappointed to see Yorke leave but echoed the thoughts of Bugno.
“It’s sad to see Dwight leave,” Butcher said. “He is a great player and a tremendous personality to have in the team and he has worked very hard since I came to Sydney to be in shape to play. He has great respect amongst the players and coaching staff and he will be missed.
Yorke played 21 games for Sydney FC in its debut season, scoring seven goals and lifting the Hyundai A-League trophy when Sydney FC defeated the Central Coast Mariners 1-0 in the inaugural Grand Final.
News from the 28th of August 2006.

T&T gives Caribbean a final youth cup win.
By: Shaun Fuentes.
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Following fourteen days of action packed competition showcasing the future of regional football, Trinidad and Tobago’s Under 16 team gave their fans a final bit of something to celebrate as they clobbered Jamaica 2-0 in the third place playoff on the closing day of the Caribbean Football Union Under 16 Youth Cup.
It was the final victory for the Caribbean as finalists Haiti were outlasted 3-0 by Mexico in the in the championship match, the second of a double header at the Hasely Crawford Stadium on Sunday.
For T&T, they avenged the loss to Jamaica in last year’s third place encounter in the Under 15 competition and this time they held firm against the more robust “Reggae Boyz” refusing to back down and instead taking the game to the visitors who will host one of the two groups on the final CONCACAF qualifying round in April next year.
With playmaker Leston Paul still missing through injury, the Anton Corneal coached team was desperate for some form of silverware after the disappointment of losing to Haiti 1-0 on Friday. And the young “Soca Warriors” delivered in front of their fans.
Both teams kept pace with each other in the first half with the hosts managing to maintain better possession as their midfield play gave them the edge and their defense was steady.
Chike Sullivan and Daniel Joseph had tries at goal but the closest came in the 39th minute when Chad De Freitas played a neat ball in from the right for Joseph but his shot was well kept out by the goalie. T&T's persistence paid off when they got a penalty in the 44th minute after a handle ball incident and topscorer Stephen Knox stepped up to drive low and hard into the right of the goal for a 1-0 T&T lead.
Jamaica hardly got a good sight at goal in the second half and T&T finished them off in the 53rd minute. A well delivered cross saw “Man of the Match” Ryan O’Neil leaping well to power a header into the roof of the net. De Freitas almost made it a triple for T&T when his effort came off the bar from the right edge of the box.
In the final, Haiti the most entertaining team of the tournament, winning the most friends as well, matched the Mexicans in every department for the first half but the Central Americans produced the necessary goods to show just why they continue to stand at the top of the CONCACAF.
Haiti had the fans cheering what was almost a goal when St Victor Ulterguens rocked the crossbar with a strong shot on 27 minutes. The Mexicans kept their composure though and they edged ahead on 71 minutes when Carlos Pena mad them pay for failure to clear up at the back.
The best build up of the match moments before  saw a right side ball fall for Ulterguens' who could only look on in despair as his shot cannoned off the underside of the crossbar and back into play. Pressure got to the Haitians though after referee Richard Piper called a foul against them on the edge of the box and issued a caution. They protested in intense fashion causing them to have two players sent off - Saint Cyr Widner and their most influential player Joseph Peterson in the 79th minute. The crowd didn’t fancy Piper’s decision and neither did the Haitian players nor bench staff. Haiti were left sorry as from the resulting free kick, Saul Sandoval sent a bullet home from the edge of the box and late substitute Raul Nava nicked one in the final minute to send the Mexicans clear. The Hatians cried while the Mexicans were the one dancing this time as the presentation ceremony followed under rain after the final whistle. Knox was adjudged the topscorer with ten goals while T&T also got the “Fair Play” award while Haiti’s Dorshan Nelson got the best goalkeeper award and Joseph Patterson deservedly took home the Most Valuable Player accolade.

Teams -

Trinidad & Tobago:


Jesse Fullerton (capt); Robert Primus, Ryan O’Neil, Sheldon Bateau, Brenton Balbosa; Chike Sullivan, Chad De Freitas, Akeem Adams (Daniel Cyrus 20th), Kevin Molino; Stephen Knox (Sean De Silva 81st), Daniel Joseph.

Jamaica:

O’Neil Wilson; Damaine Thompson, Jermaine Jarrett (capt), Sean Fogah, Christopher Banner; Kabari Palmer, John Ross Doyley, Kenneil Hyde (Auhdray Beckford 84th), Akeem Brown (Andre Steele 60th); Dever Orgill, Romario Campbell (Shavor Brown 55th).

Results:

Mexico 3 (Carlos Pena 71st, Saul Sandoval 81st, Raul Nava 90th) vs Haiti 0.

T&T 2 (Stephen Knox 44th, Ryan O’Neil 53rd) vs Jamaica 0.

Up-Close

Joh Gol's Report. (http://www.socawarriorssc.com/swonline/smf/index.php?topic=20434.msg214037#msg214037)
News from the 26th of August 2006.

Haitians too hot to handle.
By: Shaun Fuentes.
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Haiti became football kings of the Caribbean at the Under 16 level when they held off a stubborn challenge from Trinidad Tobago to come away 1-0 winners in the closing match of  Group A action at the Hasely Crawford Stadium on Friday night.
The win gave the Haitians a maximum nine points from their three matches in the closing group stage and put them through to Sunday’s final of the 2006 CFU Youth Cup against Mexico which will be played at the Hasely Crawford Stadium from 4pm. With Mexico, which defeated Jamaica 2-1 on Friday not being a CFU team, it automatically means that the Haitians end up as the tournament’s winners. The “Reggae Boyz” meantime will do battle with the “Soca Warriors” for third place honours from 2pm at the same venue on Sunday. Haiti, T&T and Jamaica all advance to the final round of CONCACAF qualifying to be played in April 2007 (in Honduras and Jamaica) towards the 2007 FIFA Under 17 World Championship in Korea.
On a relatively cool evening which saw both games shifted from the Larry Gomes Stadium due to inclement weather and field conditions, the feature game was pushed back by half hour after the field markings were unready on time and local fans flocked to the venue to see the best of Caribbean youth football, aware too to that there was no admission fee. And they got a well contested match as the Haitians showed their stability and sheer passion for the game by getting the better of the hosts. Skipper Jesse Fullerton and teammates were however not totally outdone as they put on maybe their best performance of the campaign, certainly against their hardest opposition.
In the earlier game, Suriname went home with something to show as the eased past Barbados 3-0 with goals from Teghan Pools (25th minute), Ivanildo Chobin (60th), Giovanni Drenthe (80th). Across at the Dwight Yorke Stadium, with Mexico winning, Canada and Panama played to a 2-2 draw.
In the feature match in Port of Spain, neither team could seize the advantage in the early stages with T&T holding their own, managing to enjoy some decent possession without any fluster. But the Haitians always looked likely to create danger, moving faster to the ball in spurts and playing with a level of composure and certainty almost as if nothing could trouble them. And one man in particular almost choreographed their game all by himself. The number eight Joseph Peterson, the eventual Man of the Match was a cut above the rest, winning admirers from all sides. “It look like the wrong country get the new Latapy”, one recognized T&T football correspondent blurted as he and others also got excited at times with the little man’s play and that of his teammates.
T&T’s Kevin Molino, getting his first start of the tournament after impressing on Wednesday against Suriname wasn’t having much of bad game as he and leading marksman Stephen Knox combined well on occasions, trying hard to make something happen for the home team but the Haitians were just too hard to break at the back.
And on eleven minutes, the decider was there for all to admire. A beautiful slicing pass by Peterson for 40 odd yards out made its way through and eventually got to Jules Sandy to hammer past a hapless Fullerton. Once again it was dancing time for the Haitians as Sandy teasingly put his finger over his lips in celebration, joining his teammates as they made better use of the TSTT sponsored rhythm section on hand.
Anyone who saw the two teams in previous action, particularly if being a T&T fan would likely to have become somewhat worried with the first one going in favour of the Haitians. But the local boys were not deterred and they battled on, nine minutes after the goal, they went close to tying it when  Ryan O’Neil’s  long range right footed free kick flashed wide of the upright.
Three minutes later Jean Luc Rochford out ran his man to win possession and then stylishly dragged past him before being taken down. And from the result free kick went T&T’s best chance of the game. Knox played it in from the right, and Molino didn’t seem ready to pounce, poking his effort straight to goalie Dorhans Shelson from the six yard box.
T&T pressured but the Haitians withstood and while Knox and Daniel Joseph looked like posing some danger at times, it wasn’t enough to trouble the boys in blue and white.
Anton Corneal put Chad De Freitas into the attack at the expense of Molino at the start of the second half seven minutes into it, he should have stole an equalizer, managing only a shot which the ‘keeper kept out. Then on 59 minutes, there was a scare for the T&T players while the fans were on the edge of their chairs almost as if they were there only supporting good football at that stage. Normil Valdo ran onto one and saw his effort crash off the bar.
T&T managed to win quite a few free kicks around the box and Sheldon Bateau wasn’t doing a bad job in serving them. Once his deliver was only just headed over by Akeem Adams.
But nothing could hack the Haitians as only a De Freitas fall to the turn inside the box brought loud appeals from the crowd but referee Enrico Wungaarde wasn’t having none of it. And the only bit of cheer after that from the fans was when midfielder Sean De Silva was warming up and then made his entry but by then, Haiti were already getting ready to dance again, as they went on to book a date in what promises to be an enticing fixture with the Mexicans.

Line-ups:

T&T:


1.Jesse Fullerton (capt), 3.Ryan O’Neil, 4.Sheldon Bateau, 5.Akeem Adams (16.Marcus Joseph 87th) 14.Jean Luc Rochford (9.Chad De Freitas 46th) 12.Robert Primus, 15.Chike Sullivan, 19.Kevin Molino (8.Sean De Silva 84th), 20.Daniel Cyrus, 10.Stephen Knox, 11.Daniel Joseph.

Haiti:

22.Dorhans Shelson, 3.Jean Baptiste Shiroc, 5.Pierre Elusma, 6.Saint Cyr Widner, 7.Saintilien Geferee, 8.Joseph Patterson, 9.St.Victor Ulterguens, 11.Normil Valdo, 12.Alcine Samuel (13.Joachim Dieunel 73rd), 14.Jean Jacques Bitielo (16.Romulus John Peter 83rd) 15.Jules Sandy.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Trini _2026 on August 26, 2006, 06:45:27 AM
Sean De Silva in the dog house under anton. Well corneal better scout our secondary school league good for a few good midfielders...
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: skins on August 26, 2006, 07:27:07 AM
Hope we could beat Ja
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: AB.Trini on August 26, 2006, 07:34:29 AM
If the flaws in our style of play and decisions of our coaches are constantly been repeated, when will someone knowledgeable 'fix the damn thing?'
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Trini _2026 on August 26, 2006, 07:57:48 AM
If the flaws in our style of play and decisions of our coaches are constantly been repeated, when will someone knowledgeable 'fix the damn thing?'

Alberta LP dand the technical department did not support anton in charge of our youth program . The only man that will change that is JACK .
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: CarenageBoy on August 26, 2006, 08:28:19 AM
If the flaws in our style of play and decisions of our coaches are constantly been repeated

We've been beaten at least two years in a row by Haiti (a team that we should easily beat). How can we expect to save face against Jamaica?

I agree that there is a flaw of coaching and playing style. May be we should hire another Dutch coach just for the younger players.

Turning to Jack will be a mistake IMO. He's probably part of the problem. Isn't he the one who favored Corneal for this coaching role?
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: ttcom on August 26, 2006, 08:40:33 AM
The problem is we cant be getting a team together a month before a tournament and expect them to be world beaters. We need to setup an academy to houses u12,u16, and u19 players. It will combine an academic section and sporting section. 30 students per age group from form1 to 6. 6th form students will do college level course as oppuse to A level. The logistic can be expanded by someone more knowledge than I in this area. Just food for thought
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Trini _2026 on August 26, 2006, 08:52:59 AM
The problem is we cant be getting a team together a month before a tournament and expect them to be world beaters. We need to setup an academy to houses u12,u16, and u19 players. It will combine an academic section and sporting section. 30 students per age group from form1 to 6. 6th form students will do college level course as oppuse to A level. The logistic can be expanded by someone more knowledge than I in this area. Just food for thought

naw we need to give the coaching  to the clubs .....also the youth  coaches at clubs  should be forced yes forced to get the necessary  coaching badges.....  the proleague/TTFF should sign some agreement with the dutch league or any top Europe league  for clubs secondary and primary school coaches  can go  to Europe expose them to new coaching methods also coaches can come to TNT  and give clinics ...
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Mr Mc on August 26, 2006, 08:59:04 AM
The problem is we cant be getting a team together a month before a tournament and expect them to be world beaters. We need to setup an academy to houses u12,u16, and u19 players. It will combine an academic section and sporting section. 30 students per age group from form1 to 6. 6th form students will do college level course as oppuse to A level. The logistic can be expanded by someone more knowledge than I in this area. Just food for thought

naw we need to give the coaching  to the clubs .....also the youth  coaches at clubs  should be forced yes forced to get the necessary  coaching badges.....  and sent away every season to Europe expose them to new coaching methods...

thats all good for the coaches but with ttcom's idea we have our team together all the time learning and traning. I think we need some variation of this, them guys should be traning all year round, traveling abroad playing in tournaments etc...
something tell me that haitian team might just be better prepared than our boys, from last tournament to this one...
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Socafan on August 26, 2006, 08:59:27 AM
If the flaws in our style of play and decisions of our coaches are constantly been repeated

We've been beaten at least two years in a row by Haiti (a team that we should easily beat).

What makes you say we should easily beat the Haitians? Frankly, the current order of things is just about right all things considered. You should try to find out about Haitian football. I am sure you will be surprised. Jamaica is the team that we should easily beat. Not Haiti.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: palos on August 26, 2006, 09:01:59 AM
If the flaws in our style of play and decisions of our coaches are constantly been repeated

We've been beaten at least two years in a row by Haiti (a team that we should easily beat).

What makes you say we should easily beat the Haitians? Frankly, the current order of things is just about right all things considered. You should try to find out about Haitian football. I am sure you will be surprised. Jamaica is the team that we should easily beat. Not Haiti.

ENT?
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Toussaint on August 26, 2006, 09:03:13 AM
The problem is we cant be getting a team together a month before a tournament and expect them to be world beaters. We need to setup an academy to houses u12,u16, and u19 players. It will combine an academic section and sporting section. 30 students per age group from form1 to 6. 6th form students will do college level course as oppuse to A level. The logistic can be expanded by someone more knowledge than I in this area. Just food for thought

The most constructive idea so far. Haiti has that sort of facility. Also, some of the young players you saw are some kind of 'Freedy Adus' in the Haitian league, which is probably the most competitive one in the Caribbean. There is no such thing as 'having football in your genes' like some fans here seem to imply when they are comparing their team to teams from other countries.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Quags on August 26, 2006, 09:15:46 AM
Toussaint no offence ,but them kids is go to school or just play football whole day . :)
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Trini _2026 on August 26, 2006, 09:16:26 AM
The problem is we cant be getting a team together a month before a tournament and expect them to be world beaters. We need to setup an academy to houses u12,u16, and u19 players. It will combine an academic section and sporting section. 30 students per age group from form1 to 6. 6th form students will do college level course as oppuse to A level. The logistic can be expanded by someone more knowledge than I in this area. Just food for thought

The most constructive idea so far. Haiti has that sort of facility. Also, some of the young players you saw are some kind of 'Freedy Adus' in the Haitian league, which is probably the most competitive one in the Caribbean. There is no such thing as 'having football in your genes' like some fans here seem to imply when they are comparing their team to teams from other countries.

Toussaint is your youth coach from haiti ?  just curious . Could this  be the reason!!  haiti expose their player's to higher level of football in combination with training facility . Do our top under 16 players play with the under 16's in the pro league or  do they play with the under 19's? just asking.... I could be coaching also

Can the top haitian club  beat our top club teams  Toussaint  ;D
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: TrinInfinite on August 26, 2006, 09:21:03 AM
The problem is we cant be getting a team together a month before a tournament and expect them to be world beaters. We need to setup an academy to houses u12,u16, and u19 players. It will combine an academic section and sporting section. 30 students per age group from form1 to 6. 6th form students will do college level course as oppuse to A level. The logistic can be expanded by someone more knowledge than I in this area. Just food for thought

The most constructive idea so far. Haiti has that sort of facility. Also, some of the young players you saw are some kind of 'Freedy Adus' in the Haitian league, which is probably the most competitive one in the Caribbean. There is no such thing as 'having football in your genes' like some fans here seem to imply when they are comparing their team to teams from other countries.

Toussaint is your youth coach from haiti ?  just curious . Could this  be the reason!!  haiti expose their player's to higher level of football in combination with training facility . Do our top under 16 players play with the under 16's in the pro league or  do they play with the under 19's? just asking.... I could be coaching also

Can the top haitian club  beat our top club teams  Toussaint  ;D

ttcom idea is good, this was suggested on the old board almost 6 years ago by myself and a few others, nothing materialized of it wih the ttff, however better coaching is needed, anton is a not the right coach for the job, SH would have taken our team and done much better with it, foucade and many others would have flourished in this job, anton never had it to begin with and never will, simply bc he is biased and also a terrible tactican...
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Socafan on August 26, 2006, 09:23:34 AM
The problem is we cant be getting a team together a month before a tournament and expect them to be world beaters. We need to setup an academy to houses u12,u16, and u19 players. It will combine an academic section and sporting section. 30 students per age group from form1 to 6. 6th form students will do college level course as oppuse to A level. The logistic can be expanded by someone more knowledge than I in this area. Just food for thought

The most constructive idea so far. Haiti has that sort of facility. Also, some of the young players you saw are some kind of 'Freedy Adus' in the Haitian league, which is probably the most competitive one in the Caribbean. There is no such thing as 'having football in your genes' like some fans here seem to imply when they are comparing their team to teams from other countries.

Toussaint is your youth coach from haiti ?  just curious . Could this  be the reason!!  haiti expose their player's to higher level of football in combination with training facility . Do our top under 16 players play with the under 16's in the pro league or  do they play with the under 19's? just asking.... I could be coaching also

Can the top haitian club  beat our top club teams  Toussaint  ;D

Don't know how good their club teams are, but I hear their games are very competitive. Never seen them play though. Their National teams though are being well prepared. They eh making joke. We now starting to get serious.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Trini _2026 on August 26, 2006, 09:31:28 AM
The problem is we cant be getting a team together a month before a tournament and expect them to be world beaters. We need to setup an academy to houses u12,u16, and u19 players. It will combine an academic section and sporting section. 30 students per age group from form1 to 6. 6th form students will do college level course as oppuse to A level. The logistic can be expanded by someone more knowledge than I in this area. Just food for thought

The most constructive idea so far. Haiti has that sort of facility. Also, some of the young players you saw are some kind of 'Freedy Adus' in the Haitian league, which is probably the most competitive one in the Caribbean. There is no such thing as 'having football in your genes' like some fans here seem to imply when they are comparing their team to teams from other countries.

Toussaint is your youth coach from haiti ?  just curious . Could this  be the reason!!  haiti expose their player's to higher level of football in combination with training facility . Do our top under 16 players play with the under 16's in the pro league or  do they play with the under 19's? just asking.... I could be coaching also

Can the top haitian club  beat our top club teams  Toussaint  ;D

Don't know how good their club teams are, but I hear their games are very competitive. Never seen them play though. Their National teams though are being well prepared. They eh making joke. We now starting to get serious.

So i guessed the only reason we have the edge on them becuse we have alot of players in europe
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Toussaint on August 26, 2006, 09:41:26 AM
Compre, our football camp facility is located in the town of Croix-des-Bouquets, which is at about 40 miles east  of Port-au-Prince. The kids meet at the facility for regular trainnings and only stay there when they are preparing for a match. So, yes, they go to school.

Tri, the coach is Haitian. As for the Haitian clubs, there's not one or two top teams in the league like in Trinidad and Jamaica. As I said above, our league is highly competitive. There are many foreigners in the league. The teams from the towns of Saint-Marc, Gonaives, and Cap-Haitian currently dominate the league. However, traditional powerhouses in the capital like Racing, Violette AC (my favorite), and Aigle-Noir are fighting back. Unfortunately, Haitian clubs are not interested in the CFU champions cup. They usually forfeit their participations in the tournament.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Trini _2026 on August 26, 2006, 09:49:52 AM
Compre, our football camp facility is located in the town of Croix-des-Bouquets, which is at about 40 miles east  of Port-au-Prince. The kids meet at the facility for regular trainnings and only stay there when they are preparing for a match. So, yes, they go to school.

Tri, the coach is Haitian. As for the Haitian clubs, there's not one or two top teams in the league like in Trinidad and Jamaica. As I said above, our league is highly competitive. There are many foreigners in the league. The teams from the towns of Saint-Marc, Gonaives, and Cap-Haitian currently dominate the league. However, traditional powerhouses in the capital like Racing, Violette AC (my favorite), and Aigle-Noir are fighting back. Unfortunately, Haitian clubs are not interested in the CFU champions cup. They usually forfeit their participations in the tournament.

Foreigners in the haitian league like from what country . Toussaint the impression i got of haiti until now is that of failed state which cannot have a stable lgovernment  so i am surprise when you telling me  all this i was curious where the hell you all getting time to play football. How are the football facilities stadium etc.I see you all have real passion for football  ;DBTW how much haitian players and player of haitian descent are  in the french league. Do big clubs like racing sell players to european clubs

I could about the CFU club championships forfeit  according fervier charles you get no money for winning it or taking part in it ..
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: bana2166 on August 26, 2006, 09:54:04 AM
Compre, our football camp facility is located in the town of Croix-des-Bouquets, which is at about 40 miles east  of Port-au-Prince. The kids meet at the facility for regular trainnings and only stay there when they are preparing for a match. So, yes, they go to school.

Tri, the coach is Haitian. As for the Haitian clubs, there's not one or two top teams in the league like in Trinidad and Jamaica. As I said above, our league is highly competitive. There are many foreigners in the league. The teams from the towns of Saint-Marc, Gonaives, and Cap-Haitian currently dominate the league. However, traditional powerhouses in the capital like Racing, Violette AC (my favorite), and Aigle-Noir are fighting back. Unfortunately, Haitian clubs are not interested in the CFU champions cup. They usually forfeit their participations in the tournament.

Not this Year Touissant .....

Under the mandate of the sponsor & Haitian Federation (Digicel is the sponsor of Haitian football)... Haitian clubs will be participating in CONCACAF Club Championship this year ....  That the agreement that Digicel sign with the Federation that Haitian clubs must participate in CONCACAF Club championship .... ...

Who ever won the Haitian League Championship last year will automatically qualify to represent the Haitian clubs in the tournament  ... so look out for  Baltimore St-Marc, Tempete FC, Viollette, Racing Club, Roulado, Aigle Noir and etc ... for years to come participating the clubs championship ...
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: palos on August 26, 2006, 09:54:55 AM
Compre, our football camp facility is located in the town of Croix-des-Bouquets, which is at about 40 miles east  of Port-au-Prince. The kids meet at the facility for regular trainnings and only stay there when they are preparing for a match. So, yes, they go to school.

Tri, the coach is Haitian. As for the Haitian clubs, there's not one or two top teams in the league like in Trinidad and Jamaica. As I said above, our league is highly competitive. There are many foreigners in the league. The teams from the towns of Saint-Marc, Gonaives, and Cap-Haitian currently dominate the league. However, traditional powerhouses in the capital like Racing, Violette AC (my favorite), and Aigle-Noir are fighting back. Unfortunately, Haitian clubs are not interested in the CFU champions cup. They usually forfeit their participations in the tournament.

Violette definitely rings a bell.  My earliest recollection of the Haitians was the team that had Phillipe Vorbe (one of the best players I have seen from the Caribbean), Emmanuel Sanon (one of the best strikers I have seen from the Caribbean), Henri Francillon (one of the best goalies I have seen from the Caribbean) and Ernst Jean Joseph (very good defender).

Which club team did Vorbe play for?  Because when I was a little kid, they used to give our clubs hell.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Trini _2026 on August 26, 2006, 10:13:40 AM
my pops always talk about phillpe vorbe every time he talk about haiti that was in the 70's may be and he always talk about suriname being a power houase . I think racing or Violette AC  won the club championships
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Reggaefan on August 26, 2006, 10:24:58 AM
Compre, our football camp facility is located in the town of Croix-des-Bouquets, which is at about 40 miles east  of Port-au-Prince. The kids meet at the facility for regular trainnings and only stay there when they are preparing for a match. So, yes, they go to school.

Tri, the coach is Haitian. As for the Haitian clubs, there's not one or two top teams in the league like in Trinidad and Jamaica. As I said above, our league is highly competitive. There are many foreigners in the league. The teams from the towns of Saint-Marc, Gonaives, and Cap-Haitian currently dominate the league. However, traditional powerhouses in the capital like Racing, Violette AC (my favorite), and Aigle-Noir are fighting back. Unfortunately, Haitian clubs are not interested in the CFU champions cup. They usually forfeit their participations in the tournament.

Foreigners in the haitian league like from what country . Toussaint the impression i got of haiti until now is that of failed state which cannot have a stable lgovernment  so i am surprise when you telling me  all this i was curious where the hell you all getting time to play football. How are the football facilities stadium etc.I see you all have real passion for football  ;DBTW how much haitian players and player of haitian descent are  in the french league. Do big clubs like racing sell players to european clubs

I could about the CFU club championships forfeit  according fervier charles you get no money for winning it or taking part in it ..

Haiti's Violette FC tackled Jamaica's Arnette Gardennes in the CONCACAF club championships some time ago. The Haitian club was coached aby a former Brazilian national team coach (or was it a former Brazilian player)...and they had a full kit spsonsoship from PUMA. They had 2 Brazilain and I believe 3 black columbian players playing on their team....Arnette won the home leg 2-1, and tied the away leg 1-1. The coach said there was about 20,000 People in te stadoin for the away leg....suggesting that football is a well supported in haiti.



Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Toussaint on August 26, 2006, 10:26:26 AM
Compre, our football camp facility is located in the town of Croix-des-Bouquets, which is at about 40 miles east  of Port-au-Prince. The kids meet at the facility for regular trainnings and only stay there when they are preparing for a match. So, yes, they go to school.

Tri, the coach is Haitian. As for the Haitian clubs, there's not one or two top teams in the league like in Trinidad and Jamaica. As I said above, our league is highly competitive. There are many foreigners in the league. The teams from the towns of Saint-Marc, Gonaives, and Cap-Haitian currently dominate the league. However, traditional powerhouses in the capital like Racing, Violette AC (my favorite), and Aigle-Noir are fighting back. Unfortunately, Haitian clubs are not interested in the CFU champions cup. They usually forfeit their participations in the tournament.

Violette definitely rings a bell.  My earliest recollection of the Haitians was the team that had Phillipe Vorbe (one of the best players I have seen from the Caribbean), Emmanuel Sanon (one of the best strikers I have seen from the Caribbean), Henri Francillon (one of the best goalies I have seen from the Caribbean) and Ernst Jean Joseph (very good defender).

Which club team did Vorbe play for?  Because when I was a little kid, they used to give our clubs hell.

Vorbe and Ernst played for Violette AC (a club from Petion-ville, opulent suburb of Port-au-prince).

Trin, Haiti is a poor country. However, its poverty is not the consequence of a lack of ressources, but that of endemic corruptions. So, there is money in circulation in the country, but few people have access to it. Why do you think Digicel is investing so much money to sell services in Haiti?

In regard to the Haitian crisis you refered to, there are problems only in the slums of Port-au-Prince (Bel-air, Cite Soleil, and Martissant) and Raboteau (a slum of Gonaives). The rest of Haiti is free of gangs warfare.

Back to football. The stade Sylvio Cator in Port-au-Prince is a fairly modern football stadium. It can accomodate 30, 000 seated people although in a match like the TnT vs Haiti you would have seen more than 40, 000 people in the stadium! Almost every club has its own sportive parc, which is not always in the best of conditions. Local businesses, expatriates, and the public contributions usually help the clubs take care of their business.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Trini _2026 on August 26, 2006, 10:29:48 AM
HAITI 1974 TEAM BEWARE when you clcik the link

http://www.haitifoot.com/haitian_soccer.php
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: palos on August 26, 2006, 10:35:12 AM
my pops always talk about phillpe vorbe every time he talk about haiti that was in the 70's may be and he always talk about suriname being a power houase . I think racing or Violette AC  won the club championships

Surinam had wicked players too.

2 forwards...Entingh and Roy George and dey captain Omberg who had a rocket of a left foot.  He was a defender.

Transvaal and Robin Hood was de 2 top clubs from Surinam in dem times.  Used to have some epic battles between dem and Defence Force back in de day.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Toussaint on August 26, 2006, 10:41:18 AM
my pops always talk about phillpe vorbe every time he talk about haiti that was in the 70's may be and he always talk about suriname being a power houase . I think racing or Violette AC  won the club championships

Surinam had wicked players too.

2 forwards...Entingh and Roy George and dey captain Omberg who had a rocket of a left foot.  He was a defender.

Transvaal and Robin Hood was de 2 top clubs from Surinam in dem times.  Used to have some epic battles between dem and Defence Force back in de day.

Surinam used to be a better team back in the days. I believe Transvaal  won the champions cup at least once.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Toussaint on August 26, 2006, 10:46:27 AM
HAITI 1974 TEAM BEWARE when you clcik the link

http://www.haitifoot.com/haitian_soccer.php

Doesn't that Vorbe's pass make you think or Birchall? Doesn't Sanon look like Fuller in the way he scored the goal?

Too bad, a drug scandale kept Ernst and some other defenders from playing for the team, which left the back wide open for the Italians.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: palos on August 26, 2006, 11:30:42 AM
HAITI 1974 TEAM BEWARE when you clcik the link

http://www.haitifoot.com/haitian_soccer.php

Doesn't that Vorbe's pass make you think or Birchall? Doesn't Sanon look like Fuller in the way he scored the goal?

Too bad, a drug scandale kept Ernst and some other defenders from playing for the team, which left the back wide open for the Italians.

You do realize tho that 1973 tournament is a very painful memory for Trinbagonians.  Especially after Duvalier paid the referee in the Haiti vs T&T match to ensure T&T did not win...He disallowed 4 LEGITIMATE T&T goals.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: TrinInfinite on August 26, 2006, 11:40:07 AM
HAITI 1974 TEAM BEWARE when you clcik the link

http://www.haitifoot.com/haitian_soccer.php

Doesn't that Vorbe's pass make you think or Birchall? Doesn't Sanon look like Fuller in the way he scored the goal?

Too bad, a drug scandale kept Ernst and some other defenders from playing for the team, which left the back wide open for the Italians.

dat shithound side yuh talking about that thief we, dont talk shit, allyuh couldnt pick a better team, as far as i am concerned haiti never make a world cup and trinidad is the only team to make the world cup twice out of the caribbean, our team destroyed dat haitian shithound team, schupsssssss >:(
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: bana2166 on August 26, 2006, 11:48:07 AM
HAITI 1974 TEAM BEWARE when you clcik the link

http://www.haitifoot.com/haitian_soccer.php

Doesn't that Vorbe's pass make you think or Birchall? Doesn't Sanon look like Fuller in the way he scored the goal?

Too bad, a drug scandale kept Ernst and some other defenders from playing for the team, which left the back wide open for the Italians.

You do realize tho that 1973 tournament is a very painful memory for Trinbagonians.  Especially after Duvalier paid the referee in the Haiti vs T&T match to ensure T&T did not win...He disallowed 4 LEGITIMATE T&T goals.

Hey Palos

In 1973, Trinidad problem is not Duvalier .... Trinidad problem was the referee that acted the bribe .....
Who was the referree for that ghme in 1973 and from what country?
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Trini _2026 on August 26, 2006, 11:48:38 AM
HAITI 1974 TEAM BEWARE when you clcik the link

http://www.haitifoot.com/haitian_soccer.php

Doesn't that Vorbe's pass make you think or Birchall? Doesn't Sanon look like Fuller in the way he scored the goal?

Too bad, a drug scandale kept Ernst and some other defenders from playing for the team, which left the back wide open for the Italians.

dat shithound side yuh talking about that thief we, dont talk shit, allyuh couldnt pick a better team, as far as i am concerned haiti never make a world cup and trinidad is the only team to make the world cup twice out of the caribbean, our team destroyed dat haitian shithound team, schupsssssss >:(

look at what start up now
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Coop's on August 26, 2006, 11:51:47 AM
Compre, our football camp facility is located in the town of Croix-des-Bouquets, which is at about 40 miles east  of Port-au-Prince. The kids meet at the facility for regular trainnings and only stay there when they are preparing for a match. So, yes, they go to school.

Tri, the coach is Haitian. As for the Haitian clubs, there's not one or two top teams in the league like in Trinidad and Jamaica. As I said above, our league is highly competitive. There are many foreigners in the league. The teams from the towns of Saint-Marc, Gonaives, and Cap-Haitian currently dominate the league. However, traditional powerhouses in the capital like Racing, Violette AC (my favorite), and Aigle-Noir are fighting back. Unfortunately, Haitian clubs are not interested in the CFU champions cup. They usually forfeit their participations in the tournament.

Violette definitely rings a bell.  My earliest recollection of the Haitians was the team that had Phillipe Vorbe (one of the best players I have seen from the Caribbean), Emmanuel Sanon (one of the best strikers I have seen from the Caribbean), Henri Francillon (one of the best goalies I have seen from the Caribbean) and Ernst Jean Joseph (very good defender).

Which club team did Vorbe play for?  Because when I was a little kid, they used to give our clubs hell.
        Phillipe Vorbe played for Violete,i remembered him well because we played against them in the Club championships back in the day,at home and in Haiti,it's the best player i've actually been on a field with,he did not run much but could actually find players anywhere on the field.
         I see where some people are surprised at Haitian Football,from my knowledge of Caribbean Football Haiti was always a force to be reconed with,one other country that will not surprise me is Suriname,don't ever be surprised if these countrys do well.
         I've always said we are not playing enough Football,these countries are playing more than us that's why they are better,i thought with the exposure we got at the WC everybody would want to play us but it seems like the opposite,like we are back to square one,players struggleing for contracts,when will our Senior team be able to play a quality game,the same problems we always had still with us,you can't blame Clubs for not releasing players because they are paying these guys salaries,look at how many of our players are injured.      
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: palos on August 26, 2006, 12:15:14 PM
        Phillipe Vorbe played for Violete,i remembered him well because we played against them in the Club championships back in the day,at home and in Haiti,it's the best player i've actually been on a field with,he did not run much but could actually find players anywhere on the field.
         I see where some people are surprised at Haitian Football,from my knowledge of Caribbean Football Haiti was always a force to be reconed with,one other country that will not surprise me is Suriname,don't ever be surprised if these countrys do well.
         I've always said we are not playing enough Football,these countries are playing more than us that's why they are better,i thought with the exposure we got at the WC everybody would want to play us but it seems like the opposite,like we are back to square one,players struggleing for contracts,when will our Senior team be able to play a quality game,the same problems we always had still with us,you can't blame Clubs for not releasing players because they are paying these guys salaries,look at how many of our players are injured.      

Coop's...u know de runnins.  In dem times...Haiti, T&T and Suriname did runs tings in Caribbean football.  Both at National & Club level.  Cuba had a decent team too but I don't think we had the opportunity to play against them too many times.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Toussaint on August 26, 2006, 12:33:04 PM
Palos, I am very well aware of that. Many Haitians would concede that the referees were not FAIR to TnT. But, many people in TnT took that event out of context to fool the younger generations that their team won the 1973 Hex in Port-au-Prince. Here are some facts about 1973.

1- TnT lost its first match to Honduras
2- TnT played Haiti in its second match (beginning of the tournament), not in a some kind of final showdown in which the winner would have qualified for the WC.
3-Haiti played its fourth match before TnT played its third match. So, Haiti is qualified for the WC with ONE MATCH to spare!
4-At that time, the competition was over.
5-In its fourth match, TnT beat a disappointed mexican team (was not a very fair match either).
6-TnT won its last match and looking back at their controversial loss to Haiti, people started saying that they would have qualified for the WC if they won the haiti's match forgetting that if no team was qualified at that level, the competition would have been completely different.
7-Back in the days, goal difference did not count. If two teams finished a competition with the same amount of pts, those teams would have to play an automatic 'play-off'. Haiti lost such a play-off against El Salvador in 1969 in San Salvador.

Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Trini _2026 on August 26, 2006, 12:54:57 PM
Palos, I am very well aware of that. Many Haitians would concede that the referees were not FAIR to TnT. But, many people in TnT took that event out of context to fool the younger generations that their team won the 1973 Hex in Port-au-Prince. Here are some facts about 1973.

1- TnT lost its first match to Honduras
2- TnT played Haiti in its second match (beginning of the tournament), not in a some kind of final showdown in which the winner would have qualified for the WC.
3-Haiti played its fourth match before TnT played its third match. So, Haiti is qualified for the WC with ONE MATCH to spare!
4-At that time, the competition was over.
5-In its fourth match, TnT beat a disappointed mexican team (was not a very fair match either).
6-TnT won its last match and looking back at their controversial loss to Haiti, people started saying that they would have qualified for the WC if they won the haiti's match forgetting that if no team was qualified at that level, the competition would have been completely different.
7-Back in the days, goal difference did not count. If two teams finished a competition with the same amount of pts, those teams would have to play an automatic 'play-off'. Haiti lost such a play-off against El Salvador in 1969 in San Salvador.

Make sense
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: palos on August 26, 2006, 12:56:21 PM
Palos, I am very well aware of that. Many Haitians would concede that the referees were not FAIR to TnT. But, many people in TnT took that event out of context to fool the younger generations that their team won the 1973 Hex in Port-au-Prince. Here are some facts about 1973.

1- TnT lost its first match to Honduras
2- TnT played Haiti in its second match (beginning of the tournament), not in a some kind of final showdown in which the winner would have qualified for the WC.
3-Haiti played its fourth match before TnT played its third match. So, Haiti is qualified for the WC with ONE MATCH to spare!
4-At that time, the competition was over.
5-In its fourth match, TnT beat a disappointed mexican team (was not a very fair match either).
6-TnT won its last match and looking back at their controversial loss to Haiti, people started saying that they would have qualified for the WC if they won the haiti's match forgetting that if no team was qualified at that level, the competition would have been completely different.
7-Back in the days, goal difference did not count. If two teams finished a competition with the same amount of pts, those teams would have to play an automatic 'play-off'. Haiti lost such a play-off against El Salvador in 1969 in San Salvador.

You do realise....had T&T been awarded the victory that was rightfully theirs....there would have been no Haiti qualifying with one match to spare.  Is water under de bridge now but we were outright cheated against Haiti in Haiti that night.  The tournament would have been completely different and who knows how it would have turned out?

What is undeniable that the cheating that went on that night deprived T&T the opportunity to be the one's to qualify instead of Haiti.

We remain convinced that either Duvalier, or the Haitian Federation (they were probably one and the same anyway) paid the referees to ensure we did not win against Haiti.  If the shoe were on the other foot...I'm sure you would have felt the same...and with justificiation.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: CarenageBoy on August 26, 2006, 02:17:14 PM
If the flaws in our style of play and decisions of our coaches are constantly been repeated

We've been beaten at least two years in a row by Haiti (a team that we should easily beat).

You should try to find out about Haitian football.

Well, I'm not an expert. However, I do know a teeny bit about Haitian football. Football is tightly intermingled into Haitian culture and Haitians have a passion for it. All you have to do is visit the local park here in New Jersey and see who is playing ball. It's either Peruvians, Colombians or Haitians. Beyond that, they lack quality coaching at the youth level and are not as strategic in style as the South or Central Americans. The Haitians rely more on speed and individual player skill for their success.

Having said that, I must insist that we have better skills and resources than the Haitians and are more than capable of beating them than it may appear. IMO, we have very little excuse for this loss.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Toussaint on August 26, 2006, 03:32:22 PM
Palos, I am very well aware of that. Many Haitians would concede that the referees were not FAIR to TnT. But, many people in TnT took that event out of context to fool the younger generations that their team won the 1973 Hex in Port-au-Prince. Here are some facts about 1973.

1- TnT lost its first match to Honduras
2- TnT played Haiti in its second match (beginning of the tournament), not in a some kind of final showdown in which the winner would have qualified for the WC.
3-Haiti played its fourth match before TnT played its third match. So, Haiti is qualified for the WC with ONE MATCH to spare!
4-At that time, the competition was over.
5-In its fourth match, TnT beat a disappointed mexican team (was not a very fair match either).
6-TnT won its last match and looking back at their controversial loss to Haiti, people started saying that they would have qualified for the WC if they won the haiti's match forgetting that if no team was qualified at that level, the competition would have been completely different.
7-Back in the days, goal difference did not count. If two teams finished a competition with the same amount of pts, those teams would have to play an automatic 'play-off'. Haiti lost such a play-off against El Salvador in 1969 in San Salvador.

You do realise....had T&T been awarded the victory that was rightfully theirs....there would have been no Haiti qualifying with one match to spare.  Is water under de bridge now but we were outright cheated against Haiti in Haiti that night.  The tournament would have been completely different and who knows how it would have turned out?

What is undeniable that the cheating that went on that night deprived T&T the opportunity to be the one's to qualify instead of Haiti.

We remain convinced that either Duvalier, or the Haitian Federation (they were probably one and the same anyway) paid the referees to ensure we did not win against Haiti.  If the shoe were on the other foot...I'm sure you would have felt the same...and with justificiation.

If TnT won the match, Haiti, Mexico, and TnT could have won the tournament. You are correct on that and that is also my point. However, the point on which we won't agree is that the Haitian federation and/or Duvalier paid the referees. That is simply not correct and that for several reasons:

1- Going to the 1973 Hex, Haiti was already a powerhouse and TnT was not. Haiti was runner-up in Hex 1969 and should have qualified for Mexico 1970. TnT did not reach the final stage. A few months prior to the wcq, Haiti beat TnT 6-0 in Trinidad! So, why would Haiti be afraid of TnT at home?

2- The order in which Haiti played TnT also suggest that the officials did not consider TnT a threat. When you host a competition, you meet your most feared opponent either first or last. Haiti played TnT second.

3- TnT started the competition with a defeat against an Honduran team that could not even beat the Nederland Antilles!

4- You named Duvalier, the dictator died in 1971, 2 years before the tournament! His teenager son-president was under the control of his mom Simone Ovide Duvalier and was more interested in women than anything else at the time.

As beautiful as the sport of football is, ugly things do happen sometimes. Is that the first and only time a team does enough to win a match but ends up losing it because of a biased official? I am not saying that you guys should forget that once upon a time your team was cheated out, but putting the blame on the opposing team may not be the right thing to do, specially when that team has absolutely no rational reason to do so.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: kounty on August 26, 2006, 04:11:38 PM
sorry if I offending anybody, but Toussaint, as a Trinidadian youth I am glad you here giving your half of the story that has never even once slipped out of anybody's mouth from T&T in telling of the story to the youths.  It never have only 1 side to a story and I consider hearing your side a whole half of a story gained.

 :beermug:
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Reggaefan on August 26, 2006, 04:15:11 PM
sorry if I offending anybody, but Toussaint, as a Trinidadian youth I am glad you here giving your half of the story that has never even once slipped out of anybody's mouth from T&T in telling of the story to the youths.  It never have only 1 side to a story and I consider hearing your side a whole half of a story gained.

 :beermug:

Very interesting post by Toussaint!
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: truetrini on August 26, 2006, 04:18:14 PM
HAITI 1974 TEAM BEWARE when you clcik the link

http://www.haitifoot.com/haitian_soccer.php

Doesn't that Vorbe's pass make you think or Birchall? Doesn't Sanon look like Fuller in the way he scored the goal?

Too bad, a drug scandale kept Ernst and some other defenders from playing for the team, which left the back wide open for the Italians.

dat shithound side yuh talking about that thief we, dont talk shit, allyuh couldnt pick a better team, as far as i am concerned haiti never make a world cup and trinidad is the only team to make the world cup twice out of the caribbean, our team destroyed dat haitian shithound team, schupsssssss >:(

how you so f**king dotish?

Do you know anything about T&T football at all, farless Haitian ball?

Steups you real assish boy.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Feliziano on August 26, 2006, 04:19:19 PM
sorry if I offending anybody, but Toussaint, as a Trinidadian youth I am glad you here giving your half of the story that has never even once slipped out of anybody's mouth from T&T in telling of the story to the youths.  It never have only 1 side to a story and I consider hearing your side a whole half of a story gained.

 :beermug:
i ent know how true Toussaint story is but first time i hearing the other side of the story too Bounty.
all i knew was that we basically got robbed in Haiti cause the offcials had a very biased game in favor of Haiti, then they got banned for life.
also thought it was a do or die game..not the second match in a group lol
if we did collect 6-0 a year before maybe the team did finally step up in the qualifiers and did really get robbed.
then whats this bout Mexico selling out to T&T also?
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: truetrini on August 26, 2006, 04:26:51 PM
sorry if I offending anybody, but Toussaint, as a Trinidadian youth I am glad you here giving your half of the story that has never even once slipped out of anybody's mouth from T&T in telling of the story to the youths.  It never have only 1 side to a story and I consider hearing your side a whole half of a story gained.

 :beermug:

Very interesting post by Toussaint!

  FACT IS IF WE HAD OUR VICTORY, WE GORN WC..END OF STORY.  regardless of if we lost the first game.  Trinidad were not a favourite, even Tous says Haiti was the powerhouse at that time.  Mexico were favoured and Haiti was right behind them.  Fact is we played the tournament of our lives and were robbed.  We demolished Mexico in the same manner that we demolished Haiti.

It was a playoff and not a knockout.  So what, we lost the first game, but WON all the rest..and should have advanced.  Haiti would have had to play us in a play off, who is to say that they would not have been crushed again?

Mexico never complained about their loss to T&T...not once.  So we are to assume that somehow the refs compensated us by giving us calls that were unfair to Mexico?

steups.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: kicker on August 26, 2006, 04:47:40 PM

  FACT IS IF WE HAD OUR VICTORY, WE GORN WC..END OF STORY.  regardless of if we lost the first game.  Trinidad were not a favourite, even Tous says Haiti was the powerhouse at that time.  Mexico were favoured and Haiti was right behind them.  Fact is we played the tournament of our lives and were robbed.  We demolished Mexico in the same manner that we demolished Haiti.

It was a playoff and not a knockout.  So what, we lost the first game, but WON all the rest..and should have advanced.  Haiti would have had to play us in a play off, who is to say that they would not have been crushed again?

Mexico never complained about their loss to T&T...not once.  So we are to assume that somehow the refs compensated us by giving us calls that were unfair to Mexico?

steups.

well said. Men bringing up irrelevance as if it diminishes the highway robbery that took place...
Title: Haiti team hopes win sends message to leaders.
Post by: Flex on August 26, 2006, 06:18:17 PM
Haiti team hopes win sends message to leaders.
By: Shaun Fuentes (TTFF Media).


Haitian National Under 16 head coach  Jean-Yves Labaze says his country’s current crop of youth footballers are showing the results of consistent preparation at their national football academy which has seen several of their current Under 16 members training and playing together since they were ten years old.
Labaze was speaking as he and his players danced in celebration of their 1-0 victory over Trinidad and Tobago at the Hasely Crawford Stadium on Friday, result which put them through to Sunday’s final against Mexico but also placed them as Caribbean champions even if they falter in the last game. They square off from 4pm at the Hasely Crawford Stadium while T&T and Jamaica face off from 2pm at the same venue for third place honours. Haiti, Jamaica and T&T are through to the final round of  CONCACAF qualification which takes place in Honduras and Jamaica in April 2007 towards the FIFA Under 17 World Championship in Korea.
“This win over Trinidad brings us  a high level of satisfaction. It gives us a lot of hope and it means the world to our players who have worked very hard for it,” Labaze said via translator Nnamdi Hodge, who is also the team’s liaison officer for the tournament.
“We have benefited from being together for a long time at the national academy. From the time we started to work together we had our ambitions on doing well at this level.We worked for a long while before political events caused us to break up for a month in 2004 but we came back together and we kept on working,” he added.
He emphasized on the hardships experienced by the players, many of them coming from broken homes and with little other than football to look forward to. At least four of their Under 17 players of last season have gone on to play professionally in Argentina, Uruguay and United States, Labaze noted.
“Things are very hard in Haiti and coming to play this tournament in Trinidad was a great thing for the players. What we do is use the talent and the hunger for football to help overcome the hard way of life in Haiti. This is what the young players use as a way of making something better for themselves and the success here is a big achievement for them.”
“We want to send a message to the leaders in Haiti with this victory. We want to lend them know that the young talent like these players cannot be neglected. Politics is important but taking care of things like sport like our football is equally important. Through football our flag can be waved around the world,” Labaze said, noting that his people had followed what the “Soca Warriors” achieved in Germany.
“A lot of our people supported Brazil and Argentina but we felt proud to see Trinidad (and Tobago) at the World Cup. They represented us and they did it well. They gave us hope and showed us what can happen through football. In 1974 we went and this time it was Trinidad’s turn and we were very happy for them.”
And while the country’s senior footballers are preparing for the Digicel Caribbean Cup, already the Under 16s have an eye on their first senior international cap.
“We are working hard with our under 16, under 18, and under 20 teams and then everyone wants to be with the senior team. We have some hope for the future,” Labaze added.
Title: Re: Haiti team hopes win sends message to leaders.
Post by: Socafan on August 26, 2006, 06:32:24 PM
Haiti team hopes win sends message to leaders.
By: Shaun Fuentes (TTFF Media).


Haitian National Under 16 head coach  Jean-Yves Labaze says his country’s current crop of youth footballers are showing the results of consistent preparation at their national football academy which has seen several of their current Under 16 members training and playing together since they were ten years old.
Labaze was speaking as he and his players danced in celebration of their 1-0 victory over Trinidad and Tobago at the Hasely Crawford Stadium on Friday, result which put them through to Sunday’s final against Mexico but also placed them as Caribbean champions even if they falter in the last game. They square off from 4pm at the Hasely Crawford Stadium while T&T and Jamaica face off from 2pm at the same venue for third place honours. Haiti, Jamaica and T&T are through to the final round of  CONCACAF qualification which takes place in Honduras and Jamaica in April 2007 towards the FIFA Under 17 World Championship in Korea.
“This win over Trinidad brings us  a high level of satisfaction. It gives us a lot of hope and it means the world to our players who have worked very hard for it,” Labaze said via translator Nnamdi Hodge, who is also the team’s liaison officer for the tournament.
“We have benefited from being together for a long time at the national academy. From the time we started to work together we had our ambitions on doing well at this level.We worked for a long while before political events caused us to break up for a month in 2004 but we came back together and we kept on working,” he added.
He emphasized on the hardships experienced by the players, many of them coming from broken homes and with little other than football to look forward to. At least four of their Under 17 players of last season have gone on to play professionally in Argentina, Uruguay and United States, Labaze noted.
“Things are very hard in Haiti and coming to play this tournament in Trinidad was a great thing for the players. What we do is use the talent and the hunger for football to help overcome the hard way of life in Haiti. This is what the young players use as a way of making something better for themselves and the success here is a big achievement for them.”
“We want to send a message to the leaders in Haiti with this victory. We want to lend them know that the young talent like these players cannot be neglected. Politics is important but taking care of things like sport like our football is equally important. Through football our flag can be waved around the world,” Labaze said, noting that his people had followed what the “Soca Warriors” achieved in Germany.
“A lot of our people supported Brazil and Argentina but we felt proud to see Trinidad (and Tobago) at the World Cup. They represented us and they did it well. They gave us hope and showed us what can happen through football. In 1974 we went and this time it was Trinidad’s turn and we were very happy for them.”
And while the country’s senior footballers are preparing for the Digicel Caribbean Cup, already the Under 16s have an eye on their first senior international cap.
“We are working hard with our under 16, under 18, and under 20 teams and then everyone wants to be with the senior team. We have some hope for the future,” Labaze added.
Exactly.....The Haitians have been HARD at work preparing their National teams, and they are extremely passionate about it. They are reaping the rewards. We now start to realize how important youth development is, so we a little behind. No matter, it seems that the light is at least flickering. Hopefully the end of the tunnel is near.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Socafan on August 26, 2006, 06:42:37 PM
Palos, I am very well aware of that. Many Haitians would concede that the referees were not FAIR to TnT. But, many people in TnT took that event out of context to fool the younger generations that their team won the 1973 Hex in Port-au-Prince. Here are some facts about 1973.

1- TnT lost its first match to Honduras
2- TnT played Haiti in its second match (beginning of the tournament), not in a some kind of final showdown in which the winner would have qualified for the WC.
3-Haiti played its fourth match before TnT played its third match. So, Haiti is qualified for the WC with ONE MATCH to spare!
4-At that time, the competition was over.
5-In its fourth match, TnT beat a disappointed mexican team (was not a very fair match either).
6-TnT won its last match and looking back at their controversial loss to Haiti, people started saying that they would have qualified for the WC if they won the haiti's match forgetting that if no team was qualified at that level, the competition would have been completely different.
7-Back in the days, goal difference did not count. If two teams finished a competition with the same amount of pts, those teams would have to play an automatic 'play-off'. Haiti lost such a play-off against El Salvador in 1969 in San Salvador.



Toussaint doh try dat. If we had won that game with Haiti (and we did, no doubt about that), Haiti would not have qualified with one game to spare. Flaw in yuh argument. The whole tournament would have been a whole different ballgame. You self say dat.  And of course the referees were paid off by Duvalier...what other reason the referees would have to be biased? For no reason at all?

The reason why people saying it would have been TNT in the Worldcup is because not only was the defeat of Haiti so comprehensive (if the 4 goals had not been disallowed that is), so was the defeat of Mexico. They too were crushed by TNT. So the conclusion is that TNT would have gone on to win the playoff.

As one man said before, 2006 would have been our second trip.
Title: Re: Haiti team hopes win sends message to leaders.
Post by: Storeboy on August 26, 2006, 07:50:00 PM
Haiti team hopes win sends message to leaders.
By: Shaun Fuentes (TTFF Media).


Haitian National Under 16 head coach  Jean-Yves Labaze says his country’s current crop of youth footballers are showing the results of consistent preparation at their national football academy which has seen several of their current Under 16 members training and playing together since they were ten years old.Labaze was speaking as he and his players danced in celebration of their 1-0 victory over Trinidad and Tobago at the Hasely Crawford Stadium on Friday, result which put them through to Sunday’s final against Mexico but also placed them as Caribbean champions even if they falter in the last game.
When will we ever lear?  We Tringobanians love our last minute ting, slip-shod preparation and then we expect good results.  The Warriors in Germany should have showed us that months of preparation gives good results.  Beenie had a plan that he consistently worked on as soona s he was appointed.  We have to teach our kids that sports is serious business that gives success just like how we spaend months preparing for CXC.  I hope we listen to the Haitians and learn form this.  But we just bask in the WC success and it look like we loss our way already.  Well......
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Sam on August 27, 2006, 09:30:25 AM
Seems ReggaeFart has finally gotten a recuit (Mr Toussaint). Allyuh keep on bashing T&T, we did everything you did, we even picked up a point in the world cup something Haiti didn't do and still no respect from Toussaint. RF, just supposing Jamaica get licks today, will you come back right here and cock yuh tail between you leg and congrats T&T, because we does give you your respect when yuh win... As for you Mr Touusaint, your Vodoo Haiti team robbed us in 1973 and since that T&T has own your ass at senior level. You DIDNOT qualified for the world cup before you played us in 1973, we got robbed and by us beating Mexico (4-0) it helped Haiti chances also. We started of the tour in 1973 against Honduras (a 2-1 lost) THEN Haiti and lost 2-1 (cheated, big time), both T&T and Haiti had played 2 games so far so how can Haiti qualify for the world cup before they met T&T as you stated in one of your post. Then we beat Guatemala, Mexico and Netherland Antilles if we had won that game vs Haiti we would have top the group and quailifed for the WC, so that Haiti game hurt our chances, so they have to take blame. Warren Archibald could have been president of Haiti that year if he wanted to, even after we played Haiti the whole Haitian stadium was chanting Archibald's name, because they knew we where robbed and Arcihbald was a boss, ask any Haitians about him. You have a good youth team now, I hope you can be consistent because at senior level allyuh real jokey.. We tired beat allyuh at club champion level and Caribbean cup level, in world cup we tie 3-3 and only this year allyuh win under 20 and uner 17 before that allyuh was no where.... so allyuh give respect to allyuh big brothers from the south.

   1973 -    P     W     D     L    GF    GA  GDIF   PTS

Haiti -         5     4      0     1     8      3     +5      8
T&T -         5     3      0     2    11      4     +7      6
Mexico -      5     2      2     1    10      5     +5      6
Honduras -  5     1      3     1     6       6      0      5
Guatemala - 5     0      3     2     4       6     -2      3
N.Antilles -  5     0      2     3     4      19    -15      2

When T&T, Suriname and Haiti was playing ball Jamaica was still in diapers.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Flash7 on August 27, 2006, 09:56:00 AM
Seems ReggaeFart has finally gotten a recuit (Mr Toussaint). Allyuh keep on bashing T&T, we did everything you did, we even picked up a point in the world cup something Haiti didn't do and still no respect from Toussaint. RF, just supposing Jamaica get licks today, will you come back right here and cock yuh tail between you leg and congrats T&T, because we does give you your respect when yuh win... As for you Mr Touusaint, your Vodoo Haiti team robbed us in 1973 and since that T&T has own your ass at senior level. You DIDNOT qualified for the world cup before you played us in 1973, we got robbed and by us beating Mexico (4-0) it helped Haiti chances also. We started of the tour in 1973 against Honduras (a 2-1 lost) THEN Haiti and lost 2-1 (cheated, big time), both T&T and Haiti had played 2 games so far so how can Haiti qualify for the world cup before they met T&T as you stated in one of your post. Then we beat Guatemala, Mexico and Netherland Antilles if we had won that game vs Haiti we would have top the group and quailifed for the WC, so that Haiti game hurt our chances, so they have to take blame. Warren Archibald could have been president of Haiti that year if he wanted to, even after we played Haiti the whole Haitian stadium was chanting Archibald's name, because they knew we where robbed and Arcihbald was a boss, ask any Haitians about him. You have a good youth team now, I hope you can be consistent because at senior level allyuh real jokey.. We tired beat allyuh at club champion level and Caribbean cup level, in world cup we tie 3-3 and only this year allyuh win under 20 and uner 17 before that allyuh was no where.... so allyuh give respect to allyuh big brothers from the south.

   1973 -    P     W     D     L    GF    GA  GDIF   PTS

Haiti -         5     4      0     1     8      3     +5      8
T&T -         5     3      0     2    11      4     +7      6
Mexico -      5     2      2     1    10      5     +5      6
Honduras -  5     1      3     1     6       6      0      5
Guatemala - 5     0      3     2     4       6     -2      3
N.Antilles -  5     0      2     3     4      19    -15      2

When T&T, Suriname and Haiti was playing ball Jamaica was still in diapers.

this kid has got alotta jokez lol. first of all Haiti's senior team is getting better, it's just hard for them as a team to git all thur players abroad to git back for exhibition matches but that won't be a problem for the upcoming CFU Digicel Cup. I'm not trying to start anything but last i remember the Soca Warriors did a good job in Germany, but they didn't score a single goal. I still don't see why yall are still argueing ova 1973 WCQ, were u there Sam? cuz dat waz way b4 my time so i dont feel rite commenting on tha issue unless i got sum undoubtable evidence.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Sam on August 27, 2006, 10:38:01 AM
this kid has got alotta jokez lol. first of all Haiti's senior team is getting better, it's just hard for them as a team to git all thur players abroad to git back for exhibition matches but that won't be a problem for the upcoming CFU Digicel Cup. I'm not trying to start anything but last i remember the Soca Warriors did a good job in Germany, but they didn't score a single goal. I still don't see why yall are still argueing ova 1973 WCQ, were u there Sam? cuz dat waz way b4 my time so i dont feel rite commenting on tha issue unless i got sum undoubtable evidence.

Whether I was there or not stats dont lie.... let me ask you this, was Toussaint there ? then why he bring it up then ? I just defending my country not like some punks here. We got a point in the WC Haiti didn't, whether we scored or not, we earned a point and got respected, now every teams wants to play T&T, Haiti best player was kicked out of the 1974 WC for testing positive for drugs and they got drumed. My point is, we deserve some respect. Jamaica took a foreign born team with big million dollar players and Panama knock them out while T&T, tie Costa Rica they beat Guatemala, Panama (twice), Mexico and Bahain to quailfy, why not show us some respect.

None of them teams like Cuba, Jamaica and Haiti ever went to Central America and win a world cup qualifier.. T&T did all of that when we beat El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras in world cup action and with a full 100% T&T born and bread players.
Title: Re: Haitians too hot to handle.
Post by: Flash7 on August 27, 2006, 12:54:40 PM
this kid has got alotta jokez lol. first of all Haiti's senior team is getting better, it's just hard for them as a team to git all thur players abroad to git back for exhibition matches but that won't be a problem for the upcoming CFU Digicel Cup. I'm not trying to start anything but last i remember the Soca Warriors did a good job in Germany, but they didn't score a single goal. I still don't see why yall are still argueing ova 1973 WCQ, were u there Sam? cuz dat waz way b4 my time so i dont feel rite commenting on tha issue unless i got sum undoubtable evidence.

Whether I was there or not stats dont lie.... let me ask you this, was Toussaint there ? then why he bring it up then ? I just defending my country not like some punks here. We got a point in the WC Haiti didn't, whether we scored or not, we earned a point and got respected, now every teams wants to play T&T, Haiti best player was kicked out of the 1974 WC for testing positive for drugs and they got drumed. My point is, we deserve some respect. Jamaica took a foreign born team with big million dollar players and Panama knock them out while T&T, tie Costa Rica they beat Guatemala, Panama (twice), Mexico and Bahain to quailfy, why not show us some respect.

None of them teams like Cuba, Jamaica and Haiti ever went to Central America and win a world cup qualifier.. T&T did all of that when we beat El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras in world cup action and with a full 100% T&T born and bread players.

Wat r u talkin about? i've neva heard anybody talk trash about the soca warriors, so i dunno who u mean as the one's that aren't showin yall sum respect. Cuba has a much better record against Central American teams since they are 4-time Central American champions. um..and tha tru reason evry team wantz 2 play tha soca warriors is becuz they haven't scored a goal since their 3-1 loss to Slovenia back in May. I'd ratha see my team score sum goals at a world cup then jus being content with anotha draw. wouldn't u?
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