Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Feliziano on August 14, 2007, 08:04:43 PM
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sometime this coming saturday
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haha feliz ah feel youh pain brudda
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(http://www.safc.com/images/teamcrests/small/wigan.gif) VS(http://www.safc.com/images/teamcrests/small/sunderland.gif)
2:30 pm delayed coverage
FSC
Kieran Richardson, Daryl Murphy, Dwight Yorke and Anthony Stokes were all rested for Wednesday's game at Birmingham and they look set to make an appearance .
MY predicted Formation
Ward
Collins Noswothy Clarke Halford
Yorke
Richardson Miller
Murphy Stokes
Chopra
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Nice one...look what yuh cause
ps yuh get the match wrong, is Wigan hosting ;D
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I will be extremely surprised that Keane decides to put 3 strikers on away from home, at this stage.
O Donovan might take Edwards spot like he did when he came on against Birmingham, but I'm pretty sure Whitehead is going to get a run
Also, once Etuhu is fit he will start. Dat man is a beast.
Clarke is now on loan with Leicester so I doubt he will be there
I think Stern will get a start with either stokes or murphy and Chopra will come off the bench (seeing that he will be the only player to have played in all 3 matches, and he done small already)
I also doubt he will change keepers adter only 2 games
The season long...
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Nice one...look what yuh cause
ps yuh get the match wrong, is Wigan hosting ;D
nah lol
we ent really care bout home and away ;)
Sunderland go always come first in the subject line ;D
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3 forwards....i doubt. especially on the road. Kieron Richardson on the right is possible but kind of unlikely since he is left footed and Keane says likes width on the wings. But we've seen lefties do a great job on the right, they just tend to cut in and shoot a bit more, or cut back before they hit the cross. But a def. don't think you'll see three forwards on against Wigan. Altho' if you watched Sunderland last season, Murphy played half the season on the left side of midfield...so he kinda versatile
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I'd be surprised if he benched Gordon after 2 games...unless it's to rest him. He hasn't played himself off the pitch...yet.
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common stern... make an appearance make t&t proud and hey i had faith in yuh las two premiereship games and yuh brought meh points in the last gimme another one man!
come n sterno!
a dream come tru would be fuh yorke tuh buss de net... but hey... i hopin he go save he master movs for manu
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Sunderland lineup
* 01 Gordon
* 02 Halford
* 05 Nosworthy
* 06 McShane
* 33 Wallace
* 10 Richardson
* 04 Etuhu
* 19 Yorke
* 11 Murphy
* 16 Chopra
* 09 Stokes
Substitutes
* 12 Miller,
* 14 John,
* 15 Collins,
* 21 Anderson,
* 31 Connolly
- Whitehead injured, like Carlos
Nuff respect WTD, you get it right on the 3 strikers, though Murphy might be playig more midfield...
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any audio feed?
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Audio feed:
http://matchlive.safc.premiumtv.co.uk/mlex/258741/matches/08182007/2846819/match_console.html?clubid=undefined
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Audio feed:
http://matchlive.safc.premiumtv.co.uk/mlex/258741/matches/08182007/2846819/match_console.html?clubid=undefined
thanks :beermug:
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Audio feed:
http://matchlive.safc.premiumtv.co.uk/mlex/258741/matches/08182007/2846819/match_console.html?clubid=undefined
Thanks a man but it not working
This a good link
http://mfile.akamai.com/6095/live/reflector:35549.asx?bkup=35550
Troy 8)
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ah jus feeling like yorke go score....jus ah feeling
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video link anyone?
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spurs want to kill derby ....3 nil and jus about 16 mins gone
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wait nah, Wigan leading 1 - 0?
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stern goin an save sunderland again fuh spite
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wait nah, Wigan leading 1 - 0?
yeah dog.....sunderland 1-0 down
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john coming in the 70th and going to score
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ahh yes mih boy jones buss d net!
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Yorke out of dis game rite now, he need to pick up, cuz he get about 5 touch in total
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commentator really bigging up carlos dread
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Carlos alwayz getting big up, no surprise dere
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he not big. he large.
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Carlos alwayz getting big up, no surprise dere
well considering that he not on the field...
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JUST A LITTLE UPDATE SOUTHAMPTON SCORE AGAINST NORWICH AND GUESS WHO??? - YOURS TRULY OURS TRULY
KENWYNE JONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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wait nah, Wigan leading 1 - 0?
yeah dog.....sunderland 1-0 down
At least Durham beating Hampshire at Lords...
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Troy thanks for the link
the fellas were the better team in the last 15 of the half
come on Sundedrland
We Want ah GOAL!
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Dwight Off
Stokes Off
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Collins On
Miller On
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The last sub is for Stern to come and tie up the game or rather WIN it. COME ON GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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WTD yuh really needed two posts for da?
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GOD BOY JAH PENALTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND MC SHANE OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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from bad to worse for Sunderland.
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shooting bullets
Wigan 2-0
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stern? lol
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3 subs used,no play 4 john today
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Stern not going to see any time. they need to replace mcshane
on another note, warner make another mistake
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hard luck dey.............Tony Warner with another blooper
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Apparantely they make 3 subs. CRAP MAN!!!
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next penalty
lord have mercy
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What the HELL THEM MEN DOING AND ANOTHER PENALTY!!!!!!!!!!! AND SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!
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lawd dey self destructin
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What the HELL THEM MEN DOING AND ANOTHER PENALTY!!!!!!!!!!! AND SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!
sound like they lacking leadership on the field. Dwight ent stepup and get sub, Richardson playing the ass, and nobody else on the field have the experience necessary
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I hope Keene realises that this is what happens when there are no Trini players on the field.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
ah love it!!
Hard Luck Sunderland............Go Chelsea, put it on Liverpool.
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I hope Keene realises that this is what happens when there are no Trini players on the field.
To be fair, Dwight eh do nuttin when he was there. And Keane was most likely saving that last sub for Stern.
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LORD HELP CARLOS HEAL FAST PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SUNDERLAND NEED HIM BADLY FOR MANY MORE REASONS THAN ONE IN JESUS NAME AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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We cyah see the game, so we going by the radio commentary.
But it sound like Sibierski and Heskey was running rampant. Despite what the SAFC message boards say, Sunderland was really missing Carlos, and Stern might have done well, given the number of times they say that there was nobody in front of the goal to take advantage of loose balls or whatever good play Sunderland had, because say what yuh want about Stern, he does always be around the ball.
At least Durham beating... ah hell...
It really sounding like them men on the radio would really prefer to be watching the Cricket.
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I would say it was a bad decision on the part of keane,and his inexperience as a coach at premiership level is starting to show.
When you start subing players midstream it upsets the apple cart and it sends a message to the other team that your're vulnerable,it also creates confusion especially when you're a goal down.
But then I ent no coach,so what the hell I know,I guess be prepared for rude awakenings ahead.........
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I doh know guys but from reading the Sunderland message board I notice that Yorke might be their worst player and they also hate Collins.
Yorke is only 35 and still have a good amount of energy to stay up in the Premiership this full season. I cant understand this is poor form..
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I would say it was a bad decision on the part of keane,and his inexperience as a coach at premiership level is starting to show.
When you start subing players midstream it upsets the apple cart and it sends a message to the other team that your're vulnerable,it also creates confusion especially when you're a goal down.
But then I ent no coach,so what the hell I know,I guess be prepared for rude awakenings ahead.........
So when is a good time to Sub players?
I always figure if you are under pressure, you make the changes to shore-up the weaknesses you see. Ah man getting beat consistently does send a message to the other team that you're vulnerable.
But like you I am no coach.
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I would say it was a bad decision on the part of keane,and his inexperience as a coach at premiership level is starting to show.
When you start subing players midstream it upsets the apple cart and it sends a message to the other team that your're vulnerable,it also creates confusion especially when you're a goal down.
But then I ent no coach,so what the hell I know,I guess be prepared for rude awakenings ahead.........
So when is a good time to Sub players?
I always figure if you are under pressure, you make the changes to shore-up the weaknesses you see. Ah man getting beat consistently does send a message to the other team that you're vulnerable.
But like you I am no coach.
Well it depends,were you down 3 goals before you made the changes or 3 goals down after you made the changes,but in this game of luck and chance you could never tell.....right?
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1. Sunderland missed Carlos's attacking, crossing and defensive work. He is like 3 players in 1.
2. Without Nosworthy and McShane, all hell break loose. As soon as McShane geh take off, Doy doy!
3. Dey miss Stern up front. Apart from Chops, is a kinda impotence up front, no man to hol' on & muscle for de ball.
4. Yorke important for de passing game but they panic and tek him off because he does not have as much legs to run dong ball defensively.
De moral of de story. No trinis => Uninspiring football
Doh fret, is a blessing in disguise dat dey geh dey backside wash as the value of we boys has been been made more apparent. Keane will buy Jones at de last minute and invest in some players to duplicate those who are critical. De team may be deep but the quality bench is not. Stokes and dem boys not cutting it
Still have to see de delayed video to assess dis ting.
4 points still in de bag doh. Liverpool nex' saturday at de SOL. Presshah!
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up to now, nobody post de final score....steups
alyuh rel jokey oui
Wigan 3 Sunderland 0
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Tuff luck tuh Sunderland and Stern, small thing doh, plenty games still. Stern just hold de faith and handle yuh business, so dat when ever Keane call on yuh and give yuh valuable minutes, he will always be impressed wid yuh contribution out on de field. My no means, would I question Mr Keane decision not tuh put Stern or any other player on de field. But ah kind lost and cannot find an answer, as to why de player dat just scored in yuh last game, didn't even get ah 15 - 20 minutes sweat. The only thing ah cud imagine, is dat may be Stern's style of play, wasn't effective enough, as far as implementing Keane's game plan against Wigan :-\ HIGHLY BLESSED.
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SAFC.com
Roy Keane:
"We were second best, I can't think of any plusses. A lot of teams would have beaten us today.
"I expected Wigan to put us under pressure, they are strong and physical but the defenders have got to learn to deal with that in the Premier League.
"Wigan have a bit of power. I have no complaints about the penalties, it was bad defending, you should get your body position right and we didn't do that.
"You learn a lot about your players and their character in setbacks like this. I certainly learned a lot today. It's from the defeats that you learn the most. I'm determined to get things right here.
"Sometimes players help you make decisions and a couple have done that today.
"I thought it was a real flat performance. You have to do the basics right, you have to tackle, you have to defend. I can't think of anything good that came out of it, maybe something will come to me later.
"Win, lose or draw you have to move on. I couldn't think of a tougher game than Liverpool to follow; so we'll have to regroup, refocus and make sure we're ready and raring to go.
"We've said a few words in the dressing room and we'll reflect now. One or two of the lads are away on international duty. The lads will recover from this, I have good faith in the players.
"We've had setbacks before and we'll have plenty more. In the Premier League you will have your ups and downs. We had a decent few days, today's a bad day. It's been a typical week in the Premiership.
"I'm sure the fans are disappointed but let me tell you, nowhere near as disappointed as I am.
"The most important thing is that we regroup and recover. I tend to focus on the performance as much as the result and today's was disappointing."
(On Dean Whitehead's injury):
"Dean Whitehead jarred his knee in training and he wasn't fit enough for today. It was just an unfortunate thing. Hopefully he will be fit for next Saturday."
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SAFC.com
Roy Keane:
"We were second best, I can't think of any plusses. A lot of teams would have beaten us today.
"I expected Wigan to put us under pressure, they are strong and physical but the defenders have got to learn to deal with that in the Premier League.
"Wigan have a bit of power. I have no complaints about the penalties, it was bad defending, you should get your body position right and we didn't do that.
"You learn a lot about your players and their character in setbacks like this. I certainly learned a lot today. It's from the defeats that you learn the most. I'm determined to get things right here.
"Sometimes players help you make decisions and a couple have done that today.
"I thought it was a real flat performance. You have to do the basics right, you have to tackle, you have to defend. I can't think of anything good that came out of it, maybe something will come to me later.
"Win, lose or draw you have to move on. I couldn't think of a tougher game than Liverpool to follow; so we'll have to regroup, refocus and make sure we're ready and raring to go.
"We've said a few words in the dressing room and we'll reflect now. One or two of the lads are away on international duty. The lads will recover from this, I have good faith in the players.
"We've had setbacks before and we'll have plenty more. In the Premier League you will have your ups and downs. We had a decent few days, today's a bad day. It's been a typical week in the Premiership.
"I'm sure the fans are disappointed but let me tell you, nowhere near as disappointed as I am.
"The most important thing is that we regroup and recover. I tend to focus on the performance as much as the result and today's was disappointing."
(On Dean Whitehead's injury):
"Dean Whitehead jarred his knee in training and he wasn't fit enough for today. It was just an unfortunate thing. Hopefully he will be fit for next Saturday."
Wid all due respect Mr Keane, ah guess by now, yuh realise dat Stern John is de real deal fuh all yuh up front. Stern will throw away ah few goals, but nevertheless, he does always make up for it, ask Birmingham and Mexico, just tuh name ah few. Mr Keane, trust meh, Stern is de real deal fuh Sunderland up front, make de move while de season still early and not when yuh start tuh fight against relegation. HIGHLY BLESSED.
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I dunno...but I'm a little disappointed in Keane thus far. He seems to have a penchant for speaking absent of forethought or due consideration...which only seem compounded in light of some of his coaching decisions. While I defer to his experience and expertise, it seems all of his decisions are being done in a reactionary manner...retroactive, rather than proactive.
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Is amazing how differently people can interpret the same events.
Listening to the commentary, its clear that Sunderland was pretty much overun in the first half, and losing the midfield battle.
At the half, he decided to change two midfielders (Dwight and Stokes was playing midfield as opposed to striking) He brought on Collins, a defender for an attacking midfielder, and replaced Dwight for Miller, a (supposedly) more energetic midfielder.
I personally believe that the third sub was for Stern but the injury to McShane put paid to that.
Say what you want, Keane gambled by making both subs at halftime and he lost, on a pure hasard (the injury). That said, I don't blame him for subbing Dwight, he must've touched the ball 4 times in the half. That is hardly what one can expect of a midfield general.
All this shows is that Sunderland's squad is pretty thin. Their bench is generally weak. Any sure starter missing is a recipe for disaster. Without Edwards they lack spark in the middle, without Mcshane they lack steel in the back, and if Dwight and/or Etuhu have an off day, then can be overrun.
As for Keanes rhetoric, he's never been someone to hold his tongue, he won't start now.
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I dunno...but I'm a little disappointed in Keane thus far. He seems to have a penchant for speaking absent of forethought or due consideration...which only seem compounded in light of some of his coaching decisions. While I defer to his experience and expertise, it seems all of his decisions are being done in a reactionary manner...retroactive, rather than proactive.
i dont find you make much sense there.
the man made 'proactive' decisions and got them wrong.
and will hence use 'retroactive' decisions as he learns from his mistakes.
if you dissappointed in the mistakes he made thats one thing but hindsight is always 20/20.
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First Wigan goal- clear offside
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Is amazing how differently people can interpret the same events.
Listening to the commentary, its clear that Sunderland was pretty much overun in the first half, and losing the midfield battle.
At the half, he decided to change two midfielders (Dwight and Stokes was playing midfield as opposed to striking) He brought on Collins, a defender for an attacking midfielder, and replaced Dwight for Miller, a (supposedly) more energetic midfielder.
I personally believe that the third sub was for Stern but the injury to McShane put paid to that.
Say what you want, Keane gambled by making both subs at halftime and he lost, on a pure hasard (the injury). That said, I don't blame him for subbing Dwight, he must've touched the ball 4 times in the half. That is hardly what one can expect of a midfield general.
All this shows is that Sunderland's squad is pretty thin. Their bench is generally weak. Any sure starter missing is a recipe for disaster. Without Edwards they lack spark in the middle, without Mcshane they lack steel in the back, and if Dwight and/or Etuhu have an off day, then can be overrun.
As for Keanes rhetoric, he's never been someone to hold his tongue, he won't start now.
Correc'.
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WIGAN VS SUNDERLAND game playin right now on fsc
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First Wigan goal- clear offside
the bbc said so as well, but with all the penalty decisions they had turned down before the goal i guess no one really pick up on it. All that domination must end up with a goal, be it valid or not
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I dunno...but I'm a little disappointed in Keane thus far. He seems to have a penchant for speaking absent of forethought or due consideration...which only seem compounded in light of some of his coaching decisions. While I defer to his experience and expertise, it seems all of his decisions are being done in a reactionary manner...retroactive, rather than proactive.
i dont find you make much sense there.
the man made 'proactive' decisions and got them wrong.
and will hence use 'retroactive' decisions as he learns from his mistakes.
if you dissappointed in the mistakes he made thats one thing but hindsight is always 20/20.
Yeah other than admittedly erring in his decision to not sub Carlos before he eventually hurt himself, I'm not sure how to justify an allegation of Keane not being proactive...
I would also say that most coaches make many obvious reactionary decisions, or better yet, pre-game "proactive" tactics & strategy are often less noticeable than reactionary changes/adjustments to unforseen conditions...
Agree that Keane's mouth doesn't provide a cushion for sympathy in his times of adversity.
wrt the match (watching it delayed)- 36 mins into it, and I would say that Wigan is the better team-stronger & fitter for sure, but with a little better luck Sunderland would be even with them as Wigan's first goal was offside
questionable refereeing may have saved the black cats from conceding a penalty or two though...so I guess it all evens up.
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I dunno...but I'm a little disappointed in Keane thus far. He seems to have a penchant for speaking absent of forethought or due consideration...which only seem compounded in light of some of his coaching decisions. While I defer to his experience and expertise, it seems all of his decisions are being done in a reactionary manner...retroactive, rather than proactive.
i dont find you make much sense there.
the man made 'proactive' decisions and got them wrong.
and will hence use 'retroactive' decisions as he learns from his mistakes.
if you dissappointed in the mistakes he made thats one thing but hindsight is always 20/20.
Maybe the smart thing to do would be to ask for elaboration rather than assume...I was deliberately terse in my statements because my comments were intended as pure passing observation rather than to provoke serious dialogue. What I meant is that he's coaching against Wigan with Birmingham in mind; he coaches Birmingham with Derby in mind etc. While you learn from the errors and move on, there seems to be more a focus on not replicating the mistakes of the previous games rather than altering his line up and strategizing for the upcoming game.
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I dunno...but I'm a little disappointed in Keane thus far. He seems to have a penchant for speaking absent of forethought or due consideration...which only seem compounded in light of some of his coaching decisions. While I defer to his experience and expertise, it seems all of his decisions are being done in a reactionary manner...retroactive, rather than proactive.
i dont find you make much sense there.
the man made 'proactive' decisions and got them wrong.
and will hence use 'retroactive' decisions as he learns from his mistakes.
if you dissappointed in the mistakes he made thats one thing but hindsight is always 20/20.
Maybe the smart thing to do would be to ask for elaboration rather than assume...I was deliberately terse in my statements because my comments were intended as pure passing observation rather than to provoke serious dialogue. What I meant is that he's coaching against Wigan with Birmingham in mind; he coaches Birmingham with Derby (think you meant Spurs :beermug: ) in mind etc. While you learn from the errors and move on, there seems to be more a focus on not replicating the mistakes of the previous games rather than altering his line up and strategizing for the upcoming game.
Fair enough, but without being more specific it's kinda harsh or even difficult to make such a bold assertion.....In other words, if you were in Keano's seat, what would you have done differently, or what in particular has he said to imply such?
I haven't paid exta close attention to his line-ups and how they've matched the opposition, in fact this is the first time I'm watching 90 mins Sunderland, so I reserve my comments. According to the announcers, Keane made 4 changes btw the first game and the second, and 4 btw the second and the third- how to determine or even estimate which of those changes were proactive or reactionary......your guess is as good as mine.
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Have to say, Sunderland made some good running in the first 10-15 minutes of the second half and actually looked like they could push their way back into the game.....but 65 mins in and Sunderland looks woeful in almost every department.....
Nosworthy & Chopra are their two best players on the field- and that doesn't say much...
Kieran Richardson sellin' guns....
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Watchin d game now and have some general observations.
On a whole the team lacking cohesiveness.. I guess this is the problem with newly promoted teams who try to bring in 8,9 players during the summer and have them playing all at once. Some of them not on the same page with each other, leads to broken up plays just when that extra piece of combination passing is required to breakdown the defense. That will improve with more games.
I eh find Yorke look too bad, he will always be class with the astute passing but the conditions were not his today to be adequate defensively i think he also is one who still not totally match fit and will need a couple more weeks to probably complete a full game. I think sunderland is a team that relies on the width to open up the middle. No carlos, no play down the right side at all. Richardson feel he is Ryan Giggs of yesteryear losses the ball 4 out of 5 times trying to beat 3 or 4 men, I wouldnt call him a rank shithound but sometimes he tries too much when he is on the ball not always in creative situations where a simple pass and move into space would serve him better. When he does the simple plays he looks better.
The back 4 eh ready yet, well either that or they playing 3 games in 10 days (not sure if all of them played), looked a bit off the pace with the marking, premiership strikers doh really need much room to punish yuh.
Other factors were the pitch which was very slick, men slipping and sliding all over d place and the officials who also had on off day with most of the decisions.
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Fair enough, but without being more specific it's kinda harsh or even difficult to make such a bold assertion.....In other words, if you were in Keano's seat, what would you have done differently, or what in particular has he said to imply such?
I haven't paid exta close attention to his line-ups and how they've matched the opposition, in fact this is the first time I'm watching 90 mins Sunderland, so I reserve my comments. According to the announcers, Keane made 4 changes btw the first game and the second, and 4 btw the second and the third- how to determine or even estimate which of those changes were proactive or reactionary......your guess is as good as mine.
steups...I really doh see what so 'bold' about what I said.
Keane probably was kicking himself for playing too conservative a line up against Birmingham and consequently there wasn't enough finishing up front on the few opportunities that they had. Here he questionably plays three strikers up front, stressing an already thin mid-field that itself is over-reliant on an aging Dwight Yorke. The result? Lack of cohesiveness and continuity in midfield, limiting offensive chances and creating defensive lapses by continuously giving away possession and failing to pressure the opposing mid. Wigan consequently had enough time to punish the struggling Sunderland 'D' by coming forward with wave after wave of attack.
With this in mind I take particular exception to his statement about players helping him make his decisions. Granted a good bit of them didnt' show up today, but I don't believe in throwing people under the bus...whether name was called or not. In watching the game I don't see a total lack of effort, I see men playing as though they're unfamiliar with each other, or unfamiliar with what's being asked of them. I would thus hesitate before I out and out criticise him, but in light of the foregoing I feel justified in my observations.
Spurs was correct :beermug:
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Fair enough, but without being more specific it's kinda harsh or even difficult to make such a bold assertion.....In other words, if you were in Keano's seat, what would you have done differently, or what in particular has he said to imply such?
I haven't paid exta close attention to his line-ups and how they've matched the opposition, in fact this is the first time I'm watching 90 mins Sunderland, so I reserve my comments. According to the announcers, Keane made 4 changes btw the first game and the second, and 4 btw the second and the third- how to determine or even estimate which of those changes were proactive or reactionary......your guess is as good as mine.
steups...I really doh see what so 'bold' about what I said.
Keane probably was kicking himself for playing too conservative a line up against Birmingham and consequently there wasn't enough finishing up front on the few opportunities that they had. Here he questionably plays three strikers up front, stressing an already thin mid-field that itself is over-reliant on an aging Dwight Yorke. The result? Lack of cohesiveness and continuity in midfield, limiting offensive chances and creating defensive lapses by continuously giving away possession and failing to pressure the opposing mid. Wigan consequently had enough time to punish the struggling Sunderland 'D' by coming forward with wave after wave of attack.
With this in mind I take particular exception to his statement about players helping him make his decisions. Granted a good bit of them didnt' show up today, but I don't believe in throwing people under the bus...whether name was called or not. In watching the game I don't see a total lack of effort, I see men playing as though they're unfamiliar with each other, or unfamiliar with what's being asked of them. I would thus hesitate before I out and out criticise him, but in light of the foregoing I feel justified in my observations.
Spurs was correct :beermug:
Yea that will happen with most promoted teams who attempt to make wholesale changes to their squad during the offseason to "compete" with the rest of the premiership when in reality they shoot themselves in the foot most of the time with squad overhauling which requires at least 10 to 12 games for real cohesion to take place.. They will improve with the more games they play, i eh worried bout Sunderland. Well at least not yet.
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Fair enough, but without being more specific it's kinda harsh or even difficult to make such a bold assertion.....In other words, if you were in Keano's seat, what would you have done differently, or what in particular has he said to imply such?
I haven't paid exta close attention to his line-ups and how they've matched the opposition, in fact this is the first time I'm watching 90 mins Sunderland, so I reserve my comments. According to the announcers, Keane made 4 changes btw the first game and the second, and 4 btw the second and the third- how to determine or even estimate which of those changes were proactive or reactionary......your guess is as good as mine.
steups...I really doh see what so 'bold' about what I said.
Keane probably was kicking himself for playing too conservative a line up against Birmingham and consequently there wasn't enough finishing up front on the few opportunities that they had. Here he questionably plays three strikers up front, stressing an already thin mid-field that itself is over-reliant on an aging Dwight Yorke. The result? Lack of cohesiveness and continuity in midfield, limiting offensive chances and creating defensive lapses by continuously giving away possession and failing to pressure the opposing mid. Wigan consequently had enough time to punish the struggling Sunderland 'D' by coming forward with wave after wave of attack.
With this in mind I take particular exception to his statement about players helping him make his decisions. Granted a good bit of them didnt' show up today, but I don't believe in throwing people under the bus...whether name was called or not. In watching the game I don't see a total lack of effort, I see men playing as though they're unfamiliar with each other, or unfamiliar with what's being asked of them. I would thus hesitate before I out and out criticise him, but in light of the foregoing I feel justified in my observations.
Spurs was correct :beermug:
Well we know Keano has no cover for his mouth......Somehow I feel that won't change....His comment about players making decisions for him wasn't really throwing anyone under the bus though (just barely :D)......in fact that was quite diplomatic by Keane's standards. Alotta times the coach bears the brunt of a team's poor performance and I think it's ok for the players to look in the mirror in downtimes especially when the display was as woeful as today's.
What you describe though sounds more like a coach struggling to get it right with somewhat limited resources, and a lack of real quality all around the field- so therefore making some guesses (not always the right ones). Overly reactionary or not proactive enough- I'm not sold on that notion....
My only doubt in Keane is the level of confidence that he inspires....To me Keano sounds like a coach who is abit fearful of the worst case scenario, and he's not absolutely sure of the level of quality in his team..
coaching inexperience? yes...a fear of losing? perhaps.... baptism of fire? it was due....and I have a feeling we haven't seen the worst yet... :beermug:
It's still early days....
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Sunderland make shit snake wigan look like man-u .
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Hey cartman what's up bro, long time no hear. did you forget the address.
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Yea that will happen with most promoted teams who attempt to make wholesale changes to their squad during the offseason to "compete" with the rest of the premiership when in reality they shoot themselves in the foot most of the time with squad overhauling which requires at least 10 to 12 games for real cohesion to take place.. They will improve with the more games they play, i eh worried bout Sunderland. Well at least not yet.
10-12 games is damn near a third of the season...they might want to have it figured out by then.
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Well we know Keano has no cover for his mouth......Somehow I feel that won't change....His comment about players making decisions for him wasn't really throwing anyone under the bus though (just barely :D)......in fact that was quite diplomatic by Keane's standards. Alotta times the coach bears the brunt of a team's poor performance and I think it's ok for the players to look in the mirror in downtimes especially when the display was as woeful as today's.
I dunno how you in good faith say he wasn't throwing his players under the bus...I'm sure he wasn't alluding to good play in saying that. Again, granted he didn't call anyone by name, but a casual glance at next game's starting line up will be revelatory enough.
What you describe though sounds more like a coach struggling to get it right with somewhat limited resources, and a lack of real quality all around the field- so therefore making some guesses (not always the right ones). Overly reactionary or not proactive enough- I'm not sold on that notion....
and you don't have to be sold. The very fact that the players aren't talented enough, according to your statement means that they are playing above their heads and as such the expectations vis a vis their performance has to be tempered. If the expectations are tempered then the comments should follow suit...you cannot expect consistently good play from an mediocre, patchwork team...then turn around and bash them in the press for not performing better. Either they're good enough to compete (collectively, not individually) on this level or not...and if they're not then reserve your harsh criticism for the privacyy of the locker room.
My only doubt in Keane is the level of confidence that he inspires....To me Keano sounds like a coach who is abit fearful of the worst case scenario, and he's not absolutely sure of the level of quality in his team..
coaching inexperience? yes...a fear of losing? perhaps.... baptism of fire? it was due....and I have a feeling we haven't seen the worst yet... :beermug:
It's still early days....
...and perhaps you're now starting to understand my comment about applying a filter to his mouth, exactly what does he expect out of this team, and what does he expect from his players particularly when he cuts them down publicly like he did today? There's much to be said for being frank and even brash...you need me least of all to say that. However, this isn't a very seasoned club that he's dealing with and the fragility of their egos aside, it's simple common sense, you can't throw a donkey among thoroughbreds and expect it to place...and when if doesn't you flog it like you would an underachieving purebred.
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There's much to be said for being frank and even brash...you need me least of all to say that.
:salute:
Lehme infringe on a man tings by saying "ah love it!" ;D
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Yea that will happen with most promoted teams who attempt to make wholesale changes to their squad during the offseason to "compete" with the rest of the premiership when in reality they shoot themselves in the foot most of the time with squad overhauling which requires at least 10 to 12 games for real cohesion to take place.. They will improve with the more games they play, i eh worried bout Sunderland. Well at least not yet.
10-12 games is damn near a third of the season...they might want to have it figured out by then.
well 10-12 games including preseason should be only about 4 or 5 games in the league maybe even less, probably a month or so.
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Daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=476278&in_page_id=1779
Keane loses it
After the WAGS, Sunderland's boss lays into his clueless players
Last updated at 21:20pm on 18th August 2007
Angry Sunderland manager Roy Keane went on the warpath again, but this time the venom was directed at his own Sunderland players rather than the nation's WAGS.
Keane made waves last week by criticising footballers' wives and girlfriends for influencing players to join clubs in London rather than Wearside because the shopping was better.
Read more...
As Theo Walcott's girl Melanie proves WAGs are not all airheads, she hits back at soccer boss Keane's claims
But the fairer sex was spared another Keane rant following his side's dismal 3-0 defeat at Wigan Athletic, the first time the Irishman had lost as a Premier League manager.
Instead, Keane laid into his players for their incompetence, promising to make drastic changes to prevent any repeat results this season.
Keane watched in horror as Emile Heskey, Denny Landzaat and Antoine Sibierski scored for Wigan as they went top of the League for the first time in their history.
The last two goals were from penalties conceded by Sunderland and Keane said: 'We didn't pass, we didn't tackle and we didn't defend. Normally you can take one plus out of a performance, but I couldn't find one from this.
'We keep giving ourselves mountains to climb. We got away with it in the Championship last season, but we can't afford to keep doing it in the Premiership. Even a blind man can see that.'
And in a warning to established stars such as his former Manchester United team-mate Dwight Yorke, who was replaced at half-time, Keane added: 'There is a fine line between loyalty and stupidity. I have been stupid. It won't happen again.'
Keane adding more fuel to the fire. Is Dwight being set up to be the fall guy after 3 games? Leh we hope this was a misquote as there is enough blame to share around.
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Well we know Keano has no cover for his mouth......Somehow I feel that won't change....His comment about players making decisions for him wasn't really throwing anyone under the bus though (just barely :D)......in fact that was quite diplomatic by Keane's standards. Alotta times the coach bears the brunt of a team's poor performance and I think it's ok for the players to look in the mirror in downtimes especially when the display was as woeful as today's.
I dunno how you in good faith say he wasn't throwing his players under the bus...I'm sure he wasn't alluding to good play in saying that. Again, granted he didn't call anyone by name, but a casual glance at next game's starting line up will be revelatory enough.
What you describe though sounds more like a coach struggling to get it right with somewhat limited resources, and a lack of real quality all around the field- so therefore making some guesses (not always the right ones). Overly reactionary or not proactive enough- I'm not sold on that notion....
and you don't have to be sold. The very fact that the players aren't talented enough, according to your statement means that they are playing above their heads and as such the expectations vis a vis their performance has to be tempered. If the expectations are tempered then the comments should follow suit...you cannot expect consistently good play from an mediocre, patchwork team...then turn around and bash them in the press for not performing better. Either they're good enough to compete (collectively, not individually) on this level or not...and if they're not then reserve your harsh criticism for the privacyy of the locker room.
My only doubt in Keane is the level of confidence that he inspires....To me Keano sounds like a coach who is abit fearful of the worst case scenario, and he's not absolutely sure of the level of quality in his team..
coaching inexperience? yes...a fear of losing? perhaps.... baptism of fire? it was due....and I have a feeling we haven't seen the worst yet... :beermug:
It's still early days....
...and perhaps you're now starting to understand my comment about applying a filter to his mouth, exactly what does he expect out of this team, and what does he expect from his players particularly when he cuts them down publicly like he did today? There's much to be said for being frank and even brash...you need me least of all to say that. However, this isn't a very seasoned club that he's dealing with and the fragility of their egos aside, it's simple common sense, you can't throw a donkey among thoroughbreds and expect it to place...and when if doesn't you flog it like you would an underachieving purebred.
Well I think everyone is on the same page with respect to Keano's diplomacy- there was never any disputing that he leaves a bit to be desired in that department.
His degree of proactiveness against him being a reactionary manager in his tactics was the point of contention. As a manager I would hope that he is doing his homework, and I don't know enough to suggest that he isn't.
In terms of his comments- I don't think it's a reflection of his expectations in the ability department- He should know enough to know that he doesn't have the cream of the crop. I think he's fearful that if his team doesn't play to the absolute best of their ability, they will be made to suffer...and he doesn't seem fully satisfied with the effort that his players are putting forward- put that together with an inexperienced, possibly nervous & insecure coach who probably can't even spell discretion- and the result is plain to see.....
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I dunno...but I'm a little disappointed in Keane thus far. He seems to have a penchant for speaking absent of forethought or due consideration...which only seem compounded in light of some of his coaching decisions. While I defer to his experience and expertise, it seems all of his decisions are being done in a reactionary manner...retroactive, rather than proactive.
Well said!
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Well I think everyone is on the same page with respect to Keano's diplomacy- there was never any disputing that he leaves a bit to be desired in that department.
His degree of proactiveness against him being a reactionary manager in his tactics was the point of contention. As a manager I would hope that he is doing his homework, and I don't know enough to suggest that he isn't.
In terms of his comments- I don't think it's a reflection of his expectations in the ability department- He should know enough to know that he doesn't have the cream of the crop. I think he's fearful that if his team doesn't play to the absolute best of their ability, they will be made to suffer...and he doesn't seem fully satisfied with the effort that his players are putting forward- put that together with an inexperienced, possibly nervous & insecure coach who probably can't even spell discretion- and the result is plain to see.....
You miss my point...as you would if you just focus on my critique of his tactics. Revisit my statements again and you'll see exactly what my issue with him is. It is his comments about his players, particularly in light of the fact that he himself put them in a difficult position (in my no ball-kicking self opinion) with his tactical alignment. So with questionable coaching he put an already mediocre squad between a rock and a hard place, then they fall flat on their faces and he lays into them.
As for not throwing them under the bus...look at the daily mail article posted by takenoprisoners, you'll see I'm not the only one who interpreted his comments as an unnecessarily harsh rebuke of his players. I didn't even see the comments purportedly made with Yorke in mind...and I agree that this was seemingly directed at Yorke, particularly given his early shower today.
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Fair enough, but without being more specific it's kinda harsh or even difficult to make such a bold assertion.....In other words, if you were in Keano's seat, what would you have done differently, or what in particular has he said to imply such?
I haven't paid exta close attention to his line-ups and how they've matched the opposition, in fact this is the first time I'm watching 90 mins Sunderland, so I reserve my comments. According to the announcers, Keane made 4 changes btw the first game and the second, and 4 btw the second and the third- how to determine or even estimate which of those changes were proactive or reactionary......your guess is as good as mine.
steups...I really doh see what so 'bold' about what I said.
Keane probably was kicking himself for playing too conservative a line up against Birmingham and consequently there wasn't enough finishing up front on the few opportunities that they had. Here he questionably plays three strikers up front, stressing an already thin mid-field that itself is over-reliant on an aging Dwight Yorke. The result? Lack of cohesiveness and continuity in midfield, limiting offensive chances and creating defensive lapses by continuously giving away possession and failing to pressure the opposing mid. Wigan consequently had enough time to punish the struggling Sunderland 'D' by coming forward with wave after wave of attack.
With this in mind I take particular exception to his statement about players helping him make his decisions. Granted a good bit of them didnt' show up today, but I don't believe in throwing people under the bus...whether name was called or not. In watching the game I don't see a total lack of effort, I see men playing as though they're unfamiliar with each other, or unfamiliar with what's being asked of them. I would thus hesitate before I out and out criticise him, but in light of the foregoing I feel justified in my observations.
Spurs was correct :beermug:
Well we know Keano has no cover for his mouth......Somehow I feel that won't change....His comment about players making decisions for him wasn't really throwing anyone under the bus though (just barely :D)......in fact that was quite diplomatic by Keane's standards. Alotta times the coach bears the brunt of a team's poor performance and I think it's ok for the players to look in the mirror in downtimes especially when the display was as woeful as today's.
What you describe though sounds more like a coach struggling to get it right with somewhat limited resources, and a lack of real quality all around the field- so therefore making some guesses (not always the right ones). Overly reactionary or not proactive enough- I'm not sold on that notion....
My only doubt in Keane is the level of confidence that he inspires....To me Keano sounds like a coach who is abit fearful of the worst case scenario, and he's not absolutely sure of the level of quality in his team..
coaching inexperience? yes...a fear of losing? perhaps.... baptism of fire? it was due....and I have a feeling we haven't seen the worst yet... :beermug:
It's still early days....
I agree still early for Keano, shit is not like he paid any dues. Unfortunately his learning on the job will be at the expense of Sunderland staying in the Premiership.
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Well I think everyone is on the same page with respect to Keano's diplomacy- there was never any disputing that he leaves a bit to be desired in that department.
His degree of proactiveness against him being a reactionary manager in his tactics was the point of contention. As a manager I would hope that he is doing his homework, and I don't know enough to suggest that he isn't.
In terms of his comments- I don't think it's a reflection of his expectations in the ability department- He should know enough to know that he doesn't have the cream of the crop. I think he's fearful that if his team doesn't play to the absolute best of their ability, they will be made to suffer...and he doesn't seem fully satisfied with the effort that his players are putting forward- put that together with an inexperienced, possibly nervous & insecure coach who probably can't even spell discretion- and the result is plain to see.....
You miss my point...as you would if you just focus on my critique of his tactics. Revisit my statements again and you'll see exactly what my issue with him is. It is his comments about his players, particularly in light of the fact that he himself put them in a difficult position (in my no ball-kicking self opinion) with his tactical alignment. So with questionable coaching he put an already mediocre squad between a rock and a hard place, then they fall flat on their faces and he lays into them.
As for not throwing them under the bus...look at the daily mail article posted by takenoprisoners, you'll see I'm not the only one who interpreted his comments as an unnecessarily harsh rebuke of his players. I didn't even see the comments purportedly made with Yorke in mind...and I agree that this was seemingly directed at Yorke, particularly given his early shower today.
Nah man I totally hear what yuh sayin'. From my first response I was with yuh on Keane's general degree of diplomacy despite having a slightly different interpretation of "throwing under the bus"
cheers :beermug: :beermug:
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Nah man I totally hear what yuh sayin'. From my first response I was with yuh on Keane's general degree of diplomacy despite having a slightly different interpretation of "throwing under the bus"
cheers :beermug: :beermug:
:beermug:
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I haven't seen the game yet so I can't attest to the merits. However, I do have a question related to Emile Heskey. Could someone comment about his performance today?
I find him an unlikely hero.
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I haven't seen the game yet so I can't attest to the merits. However, I do have a question related to Emile Heskey. Could someone comment about his performance today?
I find him an unlikely hero.
Heskey was Heskey- not entertaining to look at, noting spectacular but workmanlike- against opposition like Sunderland he can be & was effective. His goal was offside, but wasn't called and he drew a penalty off of some sloppy defending later on.....nothing else to write home about.
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Is amazing how differently people can interpret the same events.
Listening to the commentary, its clear that Sunderland was pretty much overun in the first half, and losing the midfield battle.
At the half, he decided to change two midfielders (Dwight and Stokes was playing midfield as opposed to striking) He brought on Collins, a defender for an attacking midfielder, and replaced Dwight for Miller, a (supposedly) more energetic midfielder.
I personally believe that the third sub was for Stern but the injury to McShane put paid to that.
Say what you want, Keane gambled by making both subs at halftime and he lost, on a pure hasard (the injury). That said, I don't blame him for subbing Dwight, he must've touched the ball 4 times in the half. That is hardly what one can expect of a midfield general.
All this shows is that Sunderland's squad is pretty thin. Their bench is generally weak. Any sure starter missing is a recipe for disaster. Without Edwards they lack spark in the middle, without Mcshane they lack steel in the back, and if Dwight and/or Etuhu have an off day, then can be overrun.
As for Keanes rhetoric, he's never been someone to hold his tongue, he won't start now.
I agree with most of what you are saying. Keane gambled a bit by making those two substitutions at half time. However I dont agree with your view on the Dwight sub. I saw the game and what I observed was good strong tackles from Dwight and good forward passes. He also made several good runs into the box but the ball was not played through. It was a sub gamble that did not work and the McShane injury made things worse. Better luck next time for sunderland and Keane.
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Yorke is only 35 and still have a good amount of energy to stay up in the Premiership this full season. I cant understand this is poor form..
Well 35 is old and I don't know how to measure Yorke's energy. The general complaint among the Sunderland fan's seems to be that he does not have the legs. They had this complaint last year too in Championship wheneverthey weren't happy. When he did weell they would say that he was class and had quality that still shone through.
Yorke is playing a position that he has never played before at this level. He played it in the A-league, for TnT in the WC and for Sunderland last year and even in the Championship he was not a 90 minute week in week out player. He was definitely revitalized when Carlos and Stern came on board but he had a very hard time getting started last year and looked best when he was getting rested for short spells.
Now to play that position in the premiership, where he is going up against specialists in that high-energy running, tackling, anchor role is going to take some adjustment, to say the least.
Add to the equation the fact that he surrounded by players who are also finding their feet and they did not get the desired squad upgrades and every mistake will be magnified and/or punished.
It is not automatic result that his quality will make up for the difficulty of this position as in Australia, because the premiership is filled with other quality players.
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Oh gosh. Thai team look ah mess paps. They ent even put Stern on the pitch...so yuh know the deal. He shining bench this season. :rotfl: They need to sign Spann for ah small money, because they have no one in the midfield neither fighting nor controlling the attack. Welcome to the Premier.
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They need to sign Spann for ah small money, because they have no one in the midfield neither fighting nor controlling the attack.
Pass the joint to the left.
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They ent even put Stern on the pitch...so yuh know the deal. He shining bench this season. :rotfl:
Ah glad you fnd that funny
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They ent even put Stern on the pitch...so yuh know the deal. He shining bench this season. :rotfl:
Ah glad you fnd that funny
Stern will in my opinion see some playing time providing he is not traded or loaned, beside choppra he's the only one scoring goals. i think he's safe. JMHO. positive.
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They ent even put Stern on the pitch...so yuh know the deal. He shining bench this season. :rotfl:
Ah glad you fnd that funny
Stern will in my opinion see some playing time providing he is not traded or loaned, beside choppra he's the only one scoring goals. i think he's safe. JMHO. positive.
He dodge a bullet with that Mido business. Hope he prove his worth on Saturday, if he play.
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The worst performance on Saturday was by Roy Keane himself. His biggest mistake was taking Yorke off and putting in Collins. A minute or two after Collins comes on, the man brazenly hold the attacker in the penalty box, thereby giving up a penalty and goal. Yorke was playing fine, although not exceptional or maybe not up to his standards. But all of his passes were accurate. Furthermore he attempted two nice give-and-goes, one with Murphy and another with someone else. In the case of Murphy, that man seems to always need 2 or 3 touches before passing the ball. Anyway there Yorke was in the position to move forward and possibly take the shots on goal, but the ball was not passed on to him. It is true that Yorke was not running down every ball and trying to be the General in midfield ( and only he knows why), but his level of play was still above that of all the other midfielders.
As others have pointed out, Sunderland’s team is really thin. The back line is good. McShane and Nosworthy are excellent. The midfield is not strong, and in the absence of Yorke it is significantly weaker, as we saw in the Birmingham game. For a significant part of that game, the play by both sides was really scrappy.
They will need a heroic effort against Liverpool on Saturday. LPool’s new striker would be a handful.
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Sunderland need to play with their Trinis.
Their two last campaigns have ended with them having the dubious records of being the team to accumulate the least amount of points in the Premiership.....