Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Flex on January 31, 2008, 06:12:37 AM
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Rijsbergen looking to future.
By: Joel Bailey (Newsday).[/size]
Wim Rijsbergen has effectively ended his term as coach of the Trinidad and Tobago football team and is looking forward to a new job as soon as possible.
The 56-year-old Rijsbergen made his views known in a recent interview with the newspaper de Verdieping Trouw in his native Netherlands.
Rijsbergen was handed a six-month suspension, without pay, by the TTFF (Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation) on December 4 after a confrontation with a Federation official.
On January 3, the TTFF unveiled 58-year-old Colombian Francisco Maturana as the new coach effective Friday (February 1) while Rijsbergen’s position will be reviewed after his ban is lifted on June 4.
In an earlier story on the Willem II Tilburg (a Dutch First Division club) website, Rijsbergen was quoted as stating that his task with the national team became unworkable.
This he said was mainly due to the strike action between the TTFF and the majority of the World Cup players last year which resulted in a number of friendly internationals being scrapped. The ex-New York Cosmos standout was given a four-year contract to lead the national team to the 2010 FIFA World Cup in South Africa, having served as assistant to his countryman Leo Beenhakker during the successful 2006 World Cup qualifying campaign.
Rijsbergen’s fellow Dutchman, assistant coach Jan Van Deinsen, resigned last month due to a lingering back problem. And another team assistant, Anton Corneal, who guided the national Under-17 team to the 2007 FIFA World Cup in South Korea, was named as the interim coach until Maturana’s contract officially starts tomorrow.
In the article on the de Verdieping Trouw’s newspaper’s internet edition, Rijsbergen admitted that the transition from qualifying for the 2006 World Cup in Germany to aspiring for the 2010 World Cup in South Africa was greatly affected by the player impasse.
As a result, he was left to field a virtual local-based team for both the Digicel Cup (in January) and the CONCACAF Gold Cup (in June). “I worked with players from the local league,” he said. “Their quality is not great. Not for nothing were (with the inclusion of the foreign-based pros), at most, four local boys in the final selection.
“If you want to achieve something as a footballer, you have to leave the island at a young age,” he affirmed. “Only abroad you can teach them the discipline associated with a professional. Their national pastime is liming, quietly drinking, talking and eating under a palm tree,” Rijsbergen said. “That belongs to their culture, but between merriment and athletics is a huge difference.”
Rijsbergen also bemoaned the lack of funding available to the team’s preparation, whereby members of the technical staff were not paid for over a month at a time, and repeated plans for a live-in camp, especially with the youth teams, never materialised.
“It was even worse,” said a disappointed Rijsbergen. “Five of the last six internationals were cancelled due to a lack of money.”
The former 1974 and 1978 World Cup defender also commented on a situation, ahead of last year’s Gold Cup, whereby some members of the squad were stranded in Honduras, en route to Los Angeles, United States.
“From my own pocket, I paid $7,000 for new visas and plane tickets to regulate,” he said. “A half-day before the first game (against El Salvador), did they arrive in the US.”
TTFF special advisor and FIFA vice-president Jack Austin Warner noted last week that the local federation will be firm in their stance against Rijsbergen.
The Dutchman also plan to sue the TTFF for breach of contract, stating that Maturana’s appointment should be null and void until a settlement has been reached between him and the Federation. The six-month suspension was enforced since, according to FIFA rules, it is the length of time stipulated to allow inquires and decisions to be made on the particular issue. When asked about his view on Warner, Rijsbergen said, “Without him, no decision was taken. He bears too much hats.
His party lost the recent elections,” Rijsbergen continued. “The government remained in power. There is also an investigation into financial flows within the football.
“Behind the scenes, things happen which I could not deal with,” he affirmed. “One thing I do know, they wanted to get rid of me. I was expensive and too complex. Sleeping dogs had to be left in peace.”
Pertaining to his future aspirations, Rijsbergen said, “My next job should at least be a nice one. But distances should not deter me.” He does not think his next stint will be in his homeland. “You need a certain qualification,” he admitted. “My life would not be a failure if I was with Real Madrid. Such clubs lean heavier on image than a balanced curriculum vitae (CV). “Look at (Ruud) Gullit at LA Galaxy, really FC Hollywood,” Rijsbergen added. “He will never make that team champions. Together with his wife, Ruud is a nice package to present to the outside world.
“For (current Netherlands coach Marco) Van Basten, is the same. With his status he earned as a footballer, he can get any job. And no one knows yet whether he makes the players better. That is why I prefer to choose the adventure,” he ended
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Well yes
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oh boy, here we go!
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The man right...
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“If you want to achieve something as a footballer, you have to leave the island at a young age,” he affirmed. “Only abroad you can teach them the discipline associated with a professional. Their national pastime is liming, quietly drinking, talking and eating under a palm tree,” Rijsbergen said. “That belongs to their culture, but between merriment and athletics is a huge difference.”
“From my own pocket, I paid $7,000 for new visas and plane tickets to regulate,” he said. “A half-day before the first game (against El Salvador), did they arrive in the US.”
It's almost like the whole Germany '06 experience has taught us nothing... :beermug:
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Yuh see how de man does lie, quietly drinkly under a palm tree my foot.
Drinking noisily in rum shops an by the river would be the correct thing for the man to say
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Wim only say what we know if u want to b a pro go outside TNT. If u want to see d Pro League players dis weekend check dem fettin like evrybody else. so if man get a contract in d Faroke Is take it because dey more professional in dey lil toe than we
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Yuh see how de man does lie, quietly drinkly under a palm tree my foot.
Drinking noisily in rum shops an by the river would be the correct thing for the man to say
;D good one...lol
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Yuh see how de man does lie, quietly drinkly under a palm tree my foot.
Drinking noisily in rum shops an by the river would be the correct thing for the man to say
it all depend on the quality and quantity of d rum.
also on whether is a tabanca rum session or not.
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Their national pastime is liming, quietly drinking, talking and eating under a palm tree,”
I eh no bout allyuh but I take offence to this statement!!!
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Their national pastime is liming, quietly drinking, talking and eating under a palm tree,”
I eh no bout allyuh but I take offence to this statement!!!
why?
Let me guess- the palm tree comment is what rubbing yuh the wrong way.....
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Their national pastime is liming, quietly drinking, talking and eating under a palm tree,”
I eh no bout allyuh but I take offence to this statement!!!
I think "eating under a palm tree" is a bit extreme. Doh know bout you guys but we didn't have no palm tree!!! Ah may occasionally have partaken in the odd roast corn or KFC two piece under the Coconut trees we had, but due to the extent of jep nest in the trees and resulting bothersome pothounds on commencement of my meal .....this was not a very regular occurrence ::)
As for the rest, that was most of my weekend from the age of 13 onwards.
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Their national pastime is liming, quietly drinking, talking and eating under a palm tree,”
I eh no bout allyuh but I take offence to this statement!!!
Funny...but I copied that same thing and was ready to come post about it. I know we Trinis like tuh brag to all who would listen what a carefree party people we are and how we take liming tuh new degrees...but this man here making it sound like we's ah bunch ah underachieving slackers. You'd swear none ah we have one ambitious or creative bone in we body, we might as well be shuffling and dancing and smiling fuh massa...s'long as we have we drink in we hand.
amazing.
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Their national pastime is liming, quietly drinking, talking and eating under a palm tree,”
I eh no bout allyuh but I take offence to this statement!!!
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
I say so also but he forget that we does cover we self in fig leaf...
Wim talk a lot of truth here though about our selves as a people and athletes....
Who vex, vex.... when I came to the states, Cleopatra Borel-Brown and a few others came to Coppin with me, and you could see the vast difference between us and their athletes.... I know this is a one sided perspective, but in general. I think our Federation does not help nurture the best in our athletes and ballers.
eg It have a certain popular footballer, who traveling the world looking for a team at 30.... and we know his stories.
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Their national pastime is liming, quietly drinking, talking and eating under a palm tree,”
I eh no bout allyuh but I take offence to this statement!!!
Funny...but I copied that same thing and was ready to come post about it. I know we Trinis like tuh brag to all who would listen what a carefree party people we are and how we take liming tuh new degrees...but this man here making it sound like we's ah bunch ah underachieving slackers. You'd swear none ah we have one ambitious or creative bone in we body, we might as well be shuffling and dancing and smiling fuh massa...s'long as we have we drink in we hand.
amazing.
IMHO I believe many Trinis live below their true potential... or allow themselves or circumstances to let them live way below their potential...
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Yeah. The palm tree part make mih blink kinda hard. But I wasn't offended by the general sentiment. It's called hyperbole. It's a legitimate device of communication.
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Rijsbergen looking to future.
Rijsbergen also bemoaned the lack of funding available to the team’s preparation, whereby members of the technical staff were not paid for over a month at a time, and repeated plans for a live-in camp, especially with the youth teams, never materialised.
d man was not doing he wuk aye
Rijsbergen looking to future.
Rijsbergen said, “Without him, no decision was taken. He bears too much hats.
His party lost the recent elections,” Rijsbergen continued. “The government remained in power. There is also an investigation into financial flows within the football.
I am very keen to see how things would work out with this columbian
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allyuh fail to realize tnt need to be serouis inthe game of football. it's very wrong for him to leave like that.
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They just translate wrong cause Palm tree equate to Coconut tree, so the man talk the truth.
I sure when the footballers not training and he ask them what they do yesterday on their day off they would respond ''I went and lime by a partner'' or "Take a lil drink with a padna" or "went to the beach and unwind. And to us, that is a safe answer to give coach when he ask about ur free time, instead of saying ' i went and brush two skegs' or 'i was fetein whole nite'
The man just combine all three answers and say what we is do...and it is the truth. Stop being in denial.
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They just translate wrong cause Palm tree equate to Coconut tree, so the man talk the truth.
I sure when the footballers not training and he ask them what they do yesterday on their day off they would respond ''I went and lime by a partner'' or "Take a lil drink with a padna" or "went to the beach and unwind. And to us, that is a safe answer to give coach when he ask about ur free time, instead of saying ' i went and brush two skegs' or 'i was fetein whole nite'
The man just combine all three answers and say what we is do...and it is the truth. Stop being in denial.
ent ;D
Too many of us does pull de wool over our eyes and let men like Hardest, Dwarika, Whitley and countless go dey own way..
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They just translate wrong cause Palm tree equate to Coconut tree, so the man talk the truth.
I sure when the footballers not training and he ask them what they do yesterday on their day off they would respond ''I went and lime by a partner'' or "Take a lil drink with a padna" or "went to the beach and unwind. And to us, that is a safe answer to give coach when he ask about ur free time, instead of saying ' i went and brush two skegs' or 'i was fetein whole nite'
The man just combine all three answers and say what we is do...and it is the truth. Stop being in denial.
ent ;D
Too many of us does pull de wool over our eyes and let men like Hardest, Dwarika, Whitley and countless go dey own way..
What the man say is true.....people here think natural talent alone will get you places. The kind of extra work that a professional athlete has to put in to be amongst the elite, is remarkable.
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de palm tree line make me jump but he talk de truth...
remember, he ent talking about me and you, yuh average 8-5 trini citizen, he talking about yuh average pro league footballer..
the level of professionalism for the Trinidadian athlete is way below what is customary in de outside world and that is a fact. We still ent on that level where everything about an athlete's lifestyle points to his career..
which means a daily training regimen, dietary discipline and all of the other sacrifices that go with it..
Daz why we local based cricketers and footballers does look nashy and under-nourished..
Real ballers nuh eat kfc and burger king and nuh drink inna Naris..
Also imagine de man hadda dive in he pocket to pay for man visa in Honduras. I may not have agreed with Wim's lack of tact in the past, but this article certainly does give us a perspective from the other side of the fence.
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Though I understand the point that Wim and others are making, I can't help but ask... Did Wim even try to motivate the local based to improve their professionalism, or did he just get vex an switch off when he realise the job was more difficult than he thought? To me, even from Beenhaker time; them men jus glance at the local pool and say "Nah, not fuh me sah! I going foreign". Beenhaker had justification as his was a race against time, he couldn't be messing about experimenting with a product he clearly thought was not upto scratch. However Wim was building to 2010 so instead of complaining about cultural shortfalls, should'nt he have been trying to change the mentality of the local based pro's. I know this may not have been the case, but to me Wim just seemed to be focused on preparing a National team rather than building one!
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tnt must get there head out a hole and start to take the game of football serouis. the major companies in tnt must use marketing tools to push football as a major sport.
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well, when de FIFA VP, the president of CONCACAF and CFU ent give a rats ass about the FUTURE of TnT football, what we go do ?
we HAVE TO BLAME de damn National team coach....RIGHT?
allya all right eh
even GC, who undoubtly was the BEST local coach, did get a SMALL blame in he time, not so?
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de palm tree line make me jump but he talk de truth...
remember, he ent talking about me and you, yuh average 8-5 trini citizen, he talking about yuh average pro league footballer..
the level of professionalism for the Trinidadian athlete is way below what is customary in de outside world and that is a fact. We still ent on that level where everything about an athlete's lifestyle points to his career..
which means a daily training regimen, dietary discipline and all of the other sacrifices that go with it..
Daz why we local based cricketers and footballers does look nashy and under-nourished..
Real ballers nuh eat kfc and burger king and nuh drink inna Naris..
Also imagine de man hadda dive in he pocket to pay for man visa in Honduras. I may not have agreed with Wim's lack of tact in the past, but this article certainly does give us a perspective from the other side of the fence.
Omar in 1995 we training for Carifta at the Hasley and we eating cheese paste sandwiches, with kiss cake, drinking solo and orchard drink. When ah come to Coppin State College, de coach hit meh ah tap for drinking coke and chewing bubble gum.... Saying what de a$$ they teach yuh in Trinidad... Talk about embarrassment.
So change needs to start from administration to athletes and then community....
Who vex vex, when you look on Facebook or Myspace at some of our local ballers, what kinda pics you does see ah dem.... Party and hoes....Maracas and Coconut beaches.... ah lie??
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de palm tree line make me jump but he talk de truth...
remember, he ent talking about me and you, yuh average 8-5 trini citizen, he talking about yuh average pro league footballer..
the level of professionalism for the Trinidadian athlete is way below what is customary in de outside world and that is a fact. We still ent on that level where everything about an athlete's lifestyle points to his career..
which means a daily training regimen, dietary discipline and all of the other sacrifices that go with it..
Daz why we local based cricketers and footballers does look nashy and under-nourished..
Real ballers nuh eat kfc and burger king and nuh drink inna Naris..
Also imagine de man hadda dive in he pocket to pay for man visa in Honduras. I may not have agreed with Wim's lack of tact in the past, but this article certainly does give us a perspective from the other side of the fence.
Omar in 1995 we training for Carifta at the Hasley and we eating cheese paste sandwiches, with kiss cake, drinking solo and orchard drink. When ah come to Coppin State College, de coach hit meh ah tap for drinking coke and chewing bubble gum.... Saying what de a$$ they teach yuh in Trinidad... Talk about embarrassment.
So change needs to start from administration to athletes and then community....
Who vex vex, when you look on Facebook or Myspace at some of our local ballers, what kinda pics you does see ah dem.... Party and hoes....Maracas and Coconut beaches.... ah lie??
see dat b oth of allya know de scene
we like to lime tooooo much :devil:
and here when I say we, I am taking a shot at the people who RUN football who have NOT got our players to think along these lines of proper eating and having a proper work out regimen
why be serious......eh, why?
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TTFF put him in a position to fail from the start. He did what he could but if he raised an issue that needed improvement they threw him out.
We lost a good coach for no damn reason.
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Their national pastime is liming, quietly drinking, talking and eating under a palm tree,”
I eh no bout allyuh but I take offence to this statement!!!
Funny...but I copied that same thing and was ready to come post about it. I know we Trinis like tuh brag to all who would listen what a carefree party people we are and how we take liming tuh new degrees...but this man here making it sound like we's ah bunch ah underachieving slackers. You'd swear none ah we have one ambitious or creative bone in we body, we might as well be shuffling and dancing and smiling fuh massa...s'long as we have we drink in we hand.
amazing.
Agreed it's a sweeping generalization- but to me the word "pastime" implies what we culturally do "to pass the time... in other words, what do Trinis do in their spare time when we're not working, studying etc......and it doesn't really comment directly on the level of education, creativity & industriousness of our nation as much as it comments on the breath of activities/things to see or do that are at our disposal locally....and the set of " extra- curricular" (so to speak) activities that ultimately comprise our set of interests....
I agree it's over-simplifies the perception of our nation from a cultural standpoint, but from an outsider who has spent limited time amongst our people, and who's time was probably spent with a select demographic- it's not that hard to see where he'd come up with such a generalization...... plain talk eh no bad manners- Trinis love to lime plenty and talk plenty sh*t....(the drinking part is debatable) and many outsiders consider that a charming quality of our culture. Despite the somewhat inaccurate depiction that it may portray in a sweeping generalization, I don't consider it that offensive.
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Well ah read all dat everybody have to say so far and ah on de side of de folks who agree dat we does real slack off as a people. As someone say before, not us regular 8-5vers, but generally as a people we doh have what it takes to be disciplined and professional....
TTFF put him in a position to fail from the start. He did what he could but if he raised an issue that needed improvement they threw him out.
We lost a good coach for no damn reason.
oooooohhhhhh :o.....you real brave boy Supporter.... ;D...wait till fishs read dis..... :whistling:
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Though I understand the point that Wim and others are making, I can't help but ask... Did Wim even try to motivate the local based to improve their professionalism, or did he just get vex an switch off when he realise the job was more difficult than he thought? To me, even from Beenhaker time; them men jus glance at the local pool and say "Nah, not fuh me sah! I going foreign". Beenhaker had justification as his was a race against time, he couldn't be messing about experimenting with a product he clearly thought was not upto scratch. However Wim was building to 2010 so instead of complaining about cultural shortfalls, should'nt he have been trying to change the mentality of the local based pro's. I know this may not have been the case, but to me Wim just seemed to be focused on preparing a National team rather than building one!
here Rodney
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xd5H3oQfXE
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de palm tree line make me jump but he talk de truth...
remember, he ent talking about me and you, yuh average 8-5 trini citizen, he talking about yuh average pro league footballer..
the level of professionalism for the Trinidadian athlete is way below what is customary in de outside world and that is a fact. We still ent on that level where everything about an athlete's lifestyle points to his career..
which means a daily training regimen, dietary discipline and all of the other sacrifices that go with it..
Daz why we local based cricketers and footballers does look nashy and under-nourished..
Real ballers nuh eat kfc and burger king and nuh drink inna Naris..
Also imagine de man hadda dive in he pocket to pay for man visa in Honduras. I may not have agreed with Wim's lack of tact in the past, but this article certainly does give us a perspective from the other side of the fence.
Omar in 1995 we training for Carifta at the Hasley and we eating cheese paste sandwiches, with kiss cake, drinking solo and orchard drink. When ah come to Coppin State College, de coach hit meh ah tap for drinking coke and chewing bubble gum.... Saying what de a$$ they teach yuh in Trinidad... Talk about embarrassment.
So change needs to start from administration to athletes and then community....
Who vex vex, when you look on Facebook or Myspace at some of our local ballers, what kinda pics you does see ah dem.... Party and hoes....Maracas and Coconut beaches.... ah lie??
see dat b oth of allya know de scene
we like to lime tooooo much :devil:
and here when I say we, I am taking a shot at the people who RUN football who have NOT got our players to think along these lines of proper eating and having a proper work out regimen
why be serious......eh, why?
West Coast, what i believe is that only a few of the administrators has seen de bigger pic. That today football is an investment, not quite a passion. For us in TnT football is a passion, not a full investment from when we young.
To place emphasis on my point:- Becks is de highest paid player, based on what??? You know why?
When Dr Dre saw Eminem rapping, you think he was only flawed by his skills to rhyme 4 syllable words or complex rhymes. No he saw where hip hop was penetrating, and used him as a tool
if Puffy did not see that in Biggie, he may still be alive flowing in house parties and the blocks of Brooklyn.
Investing in our players, not just curbing their behavior is what is needed. Our PFL teams jingle the change they collect for our boys (for not developing them) and years later dem teams does sell our players for big money... just a point.
One huge thing I would like to see is most of our players getting a chance to play outside of MLS and the EPL. (I have been Brit footy fan since some of you all were in liquid form... so...)
I do not think we invest our players creativity by sending them ENGLAND or USA... (this is the for the ones who make it out). We need to look at least Spain, France, Portugal, Italy, Holland or Germany also. England does waste some of our players natural skills....
just my 2 cents...
Wim in his arrogant way unearth some truth that touches many nerves and I am thankful....
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Their national pastime is liming, quietly drinking, talking and eating under a palm tree,”
I eh no bout allyuh but I take offence to this statement!!!
Whatever Trini support he had left Wim just lost it by showing his europeanism...
Wim seein dem locho boys limin and taking that as a cultural norm. Yes we love to lime but when priorities come most people know what to do.
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Look how allyuh blow things out of proportion. i happen to like what the man say, and it's spot on! did you highfalutin trini's got your feelings smashed? well in case allyuh forgot, where is the most favorite place for trini's to hang out ? yes!! maracas bay, mayaro , store bay, so leh me ask allyuh nah! is there not coconut trees on these beaches ? and don't yuhs bring food ? or buy it on the beach especially from the bake and shark booths ? and not only do yuhs buy food, but rum and beers as well, and don't yuhs not hang under the coconut trees for shade ?.....ah hem..... ah mean palm trees... well they look alike!!! what about the important stuff the man touch on. did anyone even penetrate the other aspects of the topic apart from the palm tree lime.
when allyuh go realise that we are a nation filled with potential but in no wise a force to be reckoned with. our lack of dedication and true national pride makes us look like apes to the rest of the develop world. we have money and resources that most contries in the world would die for , and our country looks like shit compared to places like brazil and singapore who don't have the money and revenue that we generate, but they are way more accomplished than us in every sense of the word. trini's need to get up and start working harder towards the future and stop liming so much, and pay attention to our contries affairs, and get on the ball towards a far more productive T&T. for a country with all that money , we are far too unproductive and way behind in technology. way too sensitive ppl.
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Wim probably use to go Maracas a lot to oogle the local beauties. Then he see plenty people eating bake and shark and drinking under the coconut trees. He just lump everything together to make a general statement. It is not totally correct but true in many ways. We does boast that we are the best limers in the world. At least he added a new word to his vocab.
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IMHO I believe many Trinis live below their true potential... or allow themselves or circumstances to let them live way below their potential...
Many in no way begins to define the whole.
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They just translate wrong cause Palm tree equate to Coconut tree, so the man talk the truth.
I sure when the footballers not training and he ask them what they do yesterday on their day off they would respond ''I went and lime by a partner'' or "Take a lil drink with a padna" or "went to the beach and unwind. And to us, that is a safe answer to give coach when he ask about ur free time, instead of saying ' i went and brush two skegs' or 'i was fetein whole nite'
The man just combine all three answers and say what we is do...and it is the truth. Stop being in denial.
...and what you fail to realize is that his statements, in context here govern more than just the national footballers.
Maybe you's ah underachieving slacker who happy with the characterization. Some of us who actually take achievement seriously wouldn't want the Dutch...or whomever else might be reading the interview, to think that they can't take me seriously because I happen to be Trini, as described by Wim.
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To be honest I could care less what Wim has said. The real reason for all this crap is the special advisor. We should never be in this position. Wim never caused us to be in this position. It is an administrative blooper that has our national team football in a mess. The special advisor has quite rightly told PNM to put their house in order. They running Parliament in "vaps" mode. At the same time he runs his own house in a "vaps" mode. He can do anything to his liking and benifit. No opposition and/or transparency.
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D man rite on everything he say he aint lying alyuh get vex na. Ttff plan that good tell da a$$ say something to wim for he to cuss u out and we go fire he ,well done wim geh dem fire under d palm trees
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...and what you fail to realize is that his statements, in context here govern more than just the national footballers.
Maybe you's ah underachieving slacker who happy with the characterization. Some of us who actually take achievement seriously wouldn't want the Dutch...or whomever else might be reading the interview, to think that they can't take me seriously because I happen to be Trini, as described by Wim.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I sir ,am no underachieving slacker in any form of the definition. And no Sir, I recognise that the statement governed us as a whole. However, unlike you, I am fully aware that in my country of birth it is NORMAL for men to "take a drink", "take a lime", ""talk some shit"" and "" relax on the beach" on our day off. If any of us said that we did those things on our day off, NO ONE will say that I am a slacker when I am back at work cause that is no scene to do those things.
We all think those things are not a problem. Unfortunately, to the WESTERNIZED world, it is seen as being lazy and wasting time. But to say we, as a people, do not do those things is to be in denial.
YOU may not do those things and that makes u feel happy and successful or whatever because u believe that doing those things make u a slacker. But to me, it not making me any less successful
Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, the life of a professional athlete is not the same life of a 9 to 5er or 8 to 4:30 (plus traffic). They are the ones who have to recognise that their job does not stop when they come off the training ground.
To say otherwise about our culture as a whole, is a damn lie. You must be the exception, because from tomorrow I guess u will neither be wining and jammin or on a beach retreat eating BAKE N SHARK.
What's the other option? Oh right, u probably outta d country and 4get what trinidad like.
I not going to deny my culture because a white european make it sound like a bad thing...i know the truth and i accept it.
On d real tho,, u getting me fired up...what u is really do when u have free time if u doh do those things? I really want to know now since liming and drinking makes u a unsuccessful slacker.
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Ah in de camp of brownsugar, forever trini, omarldinho, kicker, Rodney, Jayerson, spideybuff and silent others leaning on de cyber wall who vibesing de trute of their comments.
Also, (even before browsing down into the reaction of posters) I re-read Wim's 'palm tree' comment searching for manifest offensiveness but couldn't identify any.
Bakes mentioned as a people we "brag to all who would listen what a carefree party people we are and how we take liming tuh new degrees". This has consequences. As much as we are enamoured with our skillz in those compartments, many others are not and don't find them conducive to a proper working environment or for that matter, anything to boast about or jes find it kinda 'diffrent'.
Yet, for some disproportionate reason we think they should. De trute is plenty a dem same ppl won't ever be converts to our way of life. Dey will jes ride it out and move wid it for a time without rocking the boat. Those whose professional lives are deeply affected by it will be unable to have an ambiguous position regarding it (Wim for instance). I guarantee even Maturana, who comes from a similarly sociable society as is TnT, won't jes kick back and say dahis de Trini way when it comes to disciplined approaches to physical preparation .
To be certain, plenty a our young ballers doh really know any other model.
When I was a seriously dedicated feter (these days I am merely dedicated) ah use to take offense at (the rare) fellow countryman making comments about how we fete too much etc, buh over time I have come to realise that those comments are not rooted in anything but our best interests - especially since our chief export is really human and social capital and tangible misperception about our productivity ratio. Iz not a self-hatred for de lime, buh a dislike of how we feel liming is an exportable commodity directly affecting the bottom line. Clearly it is not.
Personally, as a relaxed yute who sought to walk the tightrope of business/pleasure ... even if yuh pulling it orf ... men like Wim dis still tink yuh slacking ... I have had my share of "you are a pretty laid back fella" spouted out in a variety of languages (it ent jes a Dutch thing) ... and each time I decoded it for what it meant ... while wincing.
A specific comment on professionalism and the loss of some of that productive human capital ... somebody wrote:
Too many of us does pull de wool over our eyes and let men like Hardest, Dwarika, Whitley and countless go dey own way..
If I only tell allyuh how many ex-U-23s or U-20s or under ah bounce up that have gone for naught ... I have had them on my teams ... and it has been nightmarish ... from before the whistle to after de match ... on account of remediable habits that men dis jes dismiss as a Trini thing.
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...and what you fail to realize is that his statements, in context here govern more than just the national footballers.
Maybe you's ah underachieving slacker who happy with the characterization. Some of us who actually take achievement seriously wouldn't want the Dutch...or whomever else might be reading the interview, to think that they can't take me seriously because I happen to be Trini, as described by Wim.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I sir ,am no underachieving slacker in any form of the definition. And no Sir, I recognise that the statement governed us as a whole. However, unlike you, I am fully aware that in my country of birth it is NORMAL for men to "take a drink", "take a lime", ""talk some shit"" and "" relax on the beach" on our day off. If any of us said that we did those things on our day off, NO ONE will say that I am a slacker when I am back at work cause that is no scene to do those things.
We all think those things are not a problem. Unfortunately, to the WESTERNIZED world, it is seen as being lazy and wasting time. But to say we, as a people, do not do those things is to be in denial.
YOU may not do those things and that makes u feel happy and successful or whatever because u believe that doing those things make u a slacker. But to me, it not making me any less successful
Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, the life of a professional athlete is not the same life of a 9 to 5er or 8 to 4:30 (plus traffic). They are the ones who have to recognise that their job does not stop when they come off the training ground.
To say otherwise about our culture as a whole, is a damn lie. You must be the exception, because from tomorrow I guess u will neither be wining and jammin or on a beach retreat eating BAKE N SHARK.
What's the other option? Oh right, u probably outta d country and 4get what trinidad like.
I not going to deny my culture because a white european make it sound like a bad thing...i know the truth and i accept it.
On d real tho,, u getting me fired up...what u is really do when u have free time if u doh do those things? I really want to know now since liming and drinking makes u a unsuccessful slacker.
After scanning dat book yuh type... I honed in on this part because it's also something that Kicker mentioned. Show me where in Wim's statements he indicates that he was only speaking about what we do on our time off? As a matter of fact show me where he was only talking about our footballers?
Contrary to what Kicker states, I see reading 'pastime' to mean what we do in our leisure time is an erroneously strict interpretation of his statements. The man is talking about something that is so much a apart of our national psyche (liming, drinking etc.) that we can't possibly seperate it from ourselves when we absolutely need to....as exemplified by our players. He is presenting our unprofessional footballers as indicative of the national mindset...and man in here kee kee keeying and wilding up deyself because Wim talk 'trute'.
If Wim talking about the footballers then that is where he should restrict his comments. Those footballers are unprofessional because they're unprofessional...not because Trinidadians 'like tuh lime'. All ah we like tuh lime but many (reading this thread ah cyah even argue 'most' now) of us know when to switch off de skylarking and put forth serious professional effort. Our footballers is by no way an indication of our national mindset.
Whatever yes, I go only talk fuh mihself...
Wim could never do no wrong.
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...and what you fail to realize is that his statements, in context here govern more than just the national footballers.
Maybe you's ah underachieving slacker who happy with the characterization. Some of us who actually take achievement seriously wouldn't want the Dutch...or whomever else might be reading the interview, to think that they can't take me seriously because I happen to be Trini, as described by Wim.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I sir ,am no underachieving slacker in any form of the definition. And no Sir, I recognise that the statement governed us as a whole. However, unlike you, I am fully aware that in my country of birth it is NORMAL for men to "take a drink", "take a lime", ""talk some shit"" and "" relax on the beach" on our day off. If any of us said that we did those things on our day off, NO ONE will say that I am a slacker when I am back at work cause that is no scene to do those things.
We all think those things are not a problem. Unfortunately, to the WESTERNIZED world, it is seen as being lazy and wasting time. But to say we, as a people, do not do those things is to be in denial.
YOU may not do those things and that makes u feel happy and successful or whatever because u believe that doing those things make u a slacker. But to me, it not making me any less successful
Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, the life of a professional athlete is not the same life of a 9 to 5er or 8 to 4:30 (plus traffic). They are the ones who have to recognise that their job does not stop when they come off the training ground.
To say otherwise about our culture as a whole, is a damn lie. You must be the exception, because from tomorrow I guess u will neither be wining and jammin or on a beach retreat eating BAKE N SHARK.
What's the other option? Oh right, u probably outta d country and 4get what trinidad like.
I not going to deny my culture because a white european make it sound like a bad thing...i know the truth and i accept it.
On d real tho,, u getting me fired up...what u is really do when u have free time if u doh do those things? I really want to know now since liming and drinking makes u a unsuccessful slacker.
I didn't even bother reading dat whole book yuh type... but I did hone in on this part because it's also something that Kicker mentioned. Show me where in Wim's statements he indicates that he was only speaking about what we do on our time off? As a matter of fact show me where he was only talking about our footballers?
Contrary to what Kicker states, reading 'pastime' to mean what we do in our leisure time is an erroneously strict interpretation of his statements. The man is talking about something that is so much a apart of our national psyche (liming, drinking etc.) that we can't possibly seperate it from ourselves when we absolutely need to....as exemplified by our players. He is presenting our unprofessional footballers as indicative of the national mindset...and man in here kee kee keeying and wilding up deyself because Wim talk 'trute'.
If Wim talking about the footballers then that is where he should restrict his comments. Those footballers are unprofessional because they're unprofessional...not because Trinidadians 'like tuh lime'. All ah we like tuh lime but many (reading this thread ah cyah even argue 'most' now) of us know when to switch off de skylarking and put forth serious professional effort. Our footballers is by no way an indication of our national mindset.
Whatever yes...Wim could never do no wrong.
boy you all does read to much in to comments
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boy you all does read to much in to comments
Dat is why I in my head and you in yours.
Man pissing on allyuh head and have allyuh convinced is rain.
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Asylumseeker ah hear what you're saying but Wim said the national pastime is liming and in doing so he has castigated all Trinidadians and that is a gross misperception. That conveys the image of a whole nation just waiting for the next party to start. Even if he were only relating his comments to our footballers he is still wrong, simply because we do not have an infra structure that develops our youth.
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Bakes stated:
He is presenting our unprofessional footballers as indicative of the national mindset
Could very well be. A strong case could be made for it. Buh jes on the fullness of the article alone, I haven't gone there. The one thing about what Newsday ran is the lack of clarity regarding exactly how they collated their info ... yeah they mention this source and that, buh we eh know what other backdrop is missing. For all we know Mr. Bailey jes hit translate page and den we have what we have.
+++
That unrelated point about Gullit and van Basten is understood buh I don't get the sense that these comments are in the fullness.
Newsday should be clear in how it reach where it reach. MEP, dahs why I have restricted my reaction. Anyway, for all we know a coconut tree for Wim is indistinct from a palm tree.
I eh doubt that Wim brings with him some European hubris, buh ah jes feel regardless of his assault on the national psyche, we still have in-house homework to do. Them same ballers ah refer to doh know the concept of playing to instructions for 45 minutes. ... and dahs on de field ... imagine orf.
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...and what you fail to realize is that his statements, in context here govern more than just the national footballers.
Maybe you's ah underachieving slacker who happy with the characterization. Some of us who actually take achievement seriously wouldn't want the Dutch...or whomever else might be reading the interview, to think that they can't take me seriously because I happen to be Trini, as described by Wim.
Sorry to disappoint you, but I sir ,am no underachieving slacker in any form of the definition. And no Sir, I recognise that the statement governed us as a whole. However, unlike you, I am fully aware that in my country of birth it is NORMAL for men to "take a drink", "take a lime", ""talk some shit"" and "" relax on the beach" on our day off. If any of us said that we did those things on our day off, NO ONE will say that I am a slacker when I am back at work cause that is no scene to do those things.
We all think those things are not a problem. Unfortunately, to the WESTERNIZED world, it is seen as being lazy and wasting time. But to say we, as a people, do not do those things is to be in denial.
YOU may not do those things and that makes u feel happy and successful or whatever because u believe that doing those things make u a slacker. But to me, it not making me any less successful
Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, the life of a professional athlete is not the same life of a 9 to 5er or 8 to 4:30 (plus traffic). They are the ones who have to recognise that their job does not stop when they come off the training ground.
To say otherwise about our culture as a whole, is a damn lie. You must be the exception, because from tomorrow I guess u will neither be wining and jammin or on a beach retreat eating BAKE N SHARK.
What's the other option? Oh right, u probably outta d country and 4get what trinidad like.
I not going to deny my culture because a white european make it sound like a bad thing...i know the truth and i accept it.
On d real tho,, u getting me fired up...what u is really do when u have free time if u doh do those things? I really want to know now since liming and drinking makes u a unsuccessful slacker.
I think i understand where wim comming from when he made that statment. in regard to the local footballers, to be a success in football you have to put in over time, yuh can't just do the bare minimum and expect to excell in the game, and i'm sure that was his concern in regard to the team, so he equate that laid back mode with the culture of the land, and it's true! how much over time do we put in as a nation, or how many of our work force do put pride in their work.
i never knew what real hard work was until i came back to NY as a man and had to work some real back breaking jobs, and even when i did less labourious work in doors the demand was way stressful than outdoors. i couldn't understand why these ppl put so much emphasis on bloody work, but now that i'm older i understand that hard work and dedication leads to success, that's why america, china and japan are the world leaders in ecconomics, trade, technology and sports. take a page trinidad. positive
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So nobody cyah exaggerate to make a point no more? Or it all good until a corn get mash?
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So Wim is homing in on the footballer here and how our culture is engrained in them.
I still say de man fleckin right.
Allyuh never watch a PFL or West Indies practice or warm up?
In fact ah going beyond that. Allyuh never sweat abroad and see de level of intensity and then come home and de whole game just seem ultra slow??
But is it really the footballers fault? I mean.. Lets say i growing up in Trinidad and decide football is my career path. Who really providing me with de infrastructure, de regime, de facilities, de overall environment to foster de kinda professionalism that is on par with the international game? Do you know how exceptional i have to be to get to and stay at that level?
Furthermore, lets be honest, footballers by and large ain't de brightest bulbs in de box (thats worldwide not just in trini).. And given that our local education system does do much in terms of engendering those without the academic leaning, (those who's calling is vocation and sport etc) with an environment to foster true professionalism in non-traditional fields.... Can we really blame them??
In an environment where sport is not well supported, and all the factors to build true professionals is absent it only follows that they won't subscribe to discipline level of de average 9 to 5 joe who beating out academics from since when and hence get to understand the importance of a professional lifestyle to make ends meet...
So live with the fact they will be doing more liming, feteing, brushing, drinking, eating (under coconut trees ;D) than said average joe in Trinidad...
Ah mean of fleck is footballers we talking bout u know!
But unless as a footballer in T&T, you are head and shoulders above the class in terms of talent, that attitude not going to cut it to enable you to match up to the international game.
I eh no big Wim fan but he right on this count.
Its cultural and until things change here, dey absolutely hadda go outside to get somewhere.
PS: Allyuh stink! how nobody eh yet talk about de $7000 outta he non-scheduled deposit salary he pelt out for visas?
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After scanning dat book yuh type... I honed in on this part because it's also something that Kicker mentioned. Show me where in Wim's statements he indicates that he was only speaking about what we do on our time off? As a matter of fact show me where he was only talking about our footballers?
Contrary to what Kicker states, I see reading 'pastime' to mean what we do in our leisure time is an erroneously strict interpretation of his statements. The man is talking about something that is so much a apart of our national psyche (liming, drinking etc.) that we can't possibly seperate it from ourselves when we absolutely need to....as exemplified by our players. He is presenting our unprofessional footballers as indicative of the national mindset...and man in here kee kee keeying and wilding up deyself because Wim talk 'trute'.
If Wim talking about the footballers then that is where he should restrict his comments. Those footballers are unprofessional because they're unprofessional...not because Trinidadians 'like tuh lime'. All ah we like tuh lime but many (reading this thread ah cyah even argue 'most' now) of us know when to switch off de skylarking and put forth serious professional effort. Our footballers is by no way an indication of our national mindset.
Whatever yes, I go only talk fuh mihself...
Wim could never do no wrong.
Nah the part yuh highlight was what Omar said not I.....similar but quite different- Omar & Spidey imply that he's referring to our footballers. I implied that his impression of T&T most likely based on limited exposure and a skewed view of life in T&T due to his association primarily with our local footballers/their community...
Needless to say, and as I said before it's a sweeping generalization, a loose statement delivered in one breath- harmless in my view.... inaccurate? yes...ignorant? of course... Does it have any merit? kinda...offensive ? barely.
Flip the script & study this....If yuh went Fatima and yuh fail every class in CXC, then someone says "Fatima boys are very bright"....would you take that as a compliment?
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In the article Wim says:
“If you want to achieve something as a footballer, you have to leave the island at a young age,” he affirmed. “Only abroad you can teach them the discipline associated with a professional. Their national pastime is liming, quietly drinking, talking and eating under a palm tree,” Rijsbergen said. “That belongs to their culture, but between merriment and athletics is a huge difference.”
At first i thought, he was talking about the pastime of the Trinidadian footballers he's worked with but i guess national makes it more general.
Wim can only talk about the people he has been exposed to, and rest assured them fellas embracing those aspects of our culture more than most.
Neverthless, indiscipline is rife in our culture and that is a fact. Sure as in anything else there are exceptions to the norm, but Wim eh sayin nothing we done eh know already.
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Flip the script & study this....If yuh went Fatima and yuh fail every class in CXC, then someone says "Fatima boys are very bright"....would you take that as a compliment?
;D :devil:
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After scanning dat book yuh type... I honed in on this part because it's also something that Kicker mentioned. Show me where in Wim's statements he indicates that he was only speaking about what we do on our time off? As a matter of fact show me where he was only talking about our footballers?
Contrary to what Kicker states, I see reading 'pastime' to mean what we do in our leisure time is an erroneously strict interpretation of his statements. The man is talking about something that is so much a apart of our national psyche (liming, drinking etc.) that we can't possibly seperate it from ourselves when we absolutely need to....as exemplified by our players. He is presenting our unprofessional footballers as indicative of the national mindset...and man in here kee kee keeying and wilding up deyself because Wim talk 'trute'.
If Wim talking about the footballers then that is where he should restrict his comments. Those footballers are unprofessional because they're unprofessional...not because Trinidadians 'like tuh lime'. All ah we like tuh lime but many (reading this thread ah cyah even argue 'most' now) of us know when to switch off de skylarking and put forth serious professional effort. Our footballers is by no way an indication of our national mindset.
Whatever yes, I go only talk fuh mihself...
Wim could never do no wrong.
Nah the part yuh highlight was what Omar said not I.....similar but quite different- Omar & Spidey imply that he's referring to our footballers. I implied that his impression of T&T most likely based on limited exposure and a skewed view of life in T&T due to his association primarily with our local footballers/their community...
Needless to say, and as I said before it's a sweeping generalization, a loose statement delivered in one breath- harmless in my view.... inaccurate? yes...ignorant? of course... Does it have any merit? kinda...offensive ? barely.
Flip the script & study this....If yuh went Fatima and yuh fail every class in CXC, then someone says "Fatima boys are very bright"....would you take that as a compliment?
Those weren't your words but they expressed a similar sentiment...that somehow his statements implied a distinction between what we do in our leisure time and what we do as part of our 9-5.
Regardless as to whether I would take your hypothetical statement as a compliment...there is no chance that said compliment could be a detriment to either me or my character, no? I understand the point you're trying to make, that the statement need not be applicable to each and every one of us and that we ought not take it as such...which is all true, however the statements aren't being made to an audience that would be any the wiser. Most readers of that Dutch publication will quicker unflinchingly accept it as truth because it already fits in with popular stereotypes about caribbean people.
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Wim lived here and interacted with Trinis enough to understand what we are about. Minus the palm trees part I cyar say he lying. Look at men like Nigel Pierre, Dwarika, Ratty and ,allyuh boy Hardest and you will find the statement pregnant with truth. As a foreigner you always take a risk criticizing somebody's culture. To be honest I wouldna say it.
That said this a quote from Naipaul I use in my signature about Trinidad Society.
“Power was recognised, but dignity was allowed to no one. Every person of eminence was held to be crooked and contemptible. We lived in a society that denied itself heroes.”
Most of us not willing to put out the effort to go to next level and we does fight down anybody who reach there.
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A good coach tells you the stuff you don't want to hear.
A great coach takes these weaknesses and makes them your strength...
Men liming under coconut tree, and drinkin...
Half de man dem on de bloody team cayr even trap a ball or do a few drills for more than 10 mins without making mistakes.... this is not 12 years old men but 21 years old men, we talking about. If was a local coach get de shaft would we care...if it was a black coach would we care, if it was a coach toying with us at the idea that Latas and Yorke go play, would we care....? But is ah dutch man who say so... is he biased, uneducated, never go anywhere, never play in a world cup a$$ that say so.... So I will take offense.... no de man duty is to take note of all aspects of our lives and work with that. Yes he bitter and say some things.
Is TTFF not a backwards org. 1989 We almost make it and what happen 16 long years and we no better than we were in 1992....
I will end all my comments here for this thread.... :-\
Whatever the outcome my heart is red, white and black...
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But is ah dutch man who say so... is he biased, uneducated, never go anywhere, never play in a world cup a$$ that say so....
not one but TWO second places in de world cup...... ;)
anyway let we all look to the future
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But is ah dutch man who say so... is he biased, uneducated, never go anywhere, never play in a world cup a$$ that say so....
not one but TWO second places in de world cup...... ;)
anyway let we all look to the future
Some people does forget that, so I stated it like that ;D
Where have you been all day WC???
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I here man
doing some catching up on the forum
awaiting the ash wednesday game to see if Maturana will be top dawg or if he go hang back and let cornmeal run tings ;D
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Wim gone, but his ghost still around.
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Whim jes vex and frustrated and rightfully so. He went too far wit we national pastime in my estimation. Stereotyping and pigeon holing people like dat is absolutely wrong. We did him no wrong. Is Jackula and Scamps he should be griping more about.
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“If you want to achieve something as a footballer, you have to leave the island at a young age,” he affirmed. “Only abroad you can teach them the discipline associated with a professional. Their national pastime is liming, quietly drinking, talking and eating under a palm tree,” Rijsbergen said. “That belongs to their culture, but between merriment and athletics is a huge difference.”
Well yes, this is kix oui.
Allyuh right, the man made a wholly incorrect statement about Trinidadians, footballers or otherwise.
We do not lime, drink, talk shit and eat bake and shark on the beach, when we not working.
Our national pastime is playing the steel pan and surfing the internet or something so obviously.
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palm tree.....get to the real points in the interview......i right now under a palm tree eating,....
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palm tree.....get to the real points in the interview......i right now under a palm tree eating,....
I freezing my a$$ off in an office and have to go out in de blasted rain soon... I soulda play PFL oui...
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Seein dat dis article was reposted from one in a Dutch Newspaper, I am going to make the (probably incorrect) assumption that the origianl article was in Dutch.
If so, what we would be seein here is a TRANSLATED reproduction. There might be some things that might be lost, altered etc in translation.
Besides, is all about context. I assuming is a Sport article and Wim was being asked about his experiences with football in T&T. Whatever comments he would make I perceived in that context.
I don't see anything wrong with Rijsbergen's comments. Seems to me they were made in his usual blunt, forthright, some may say tactless manner, but there was nothing inaccurate. First thing yuh ask any Trini what they most like to do and the TYPICAL INITIAL response is lime and/or fete. WE promote that. Not Wim. But because he say it and how it may have been said and/or interpreted, is a problem for some.
PERHAPS the old adage rings true in this instance. The truth offends. Then again, that might mean for some peeps because I say dat, I could do no wrong.
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is jack translate dat article! :D
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and surfing the internet.
speak for yaself ;D ;D
palm tree.....get to the real points in the interview......i right now under a palm tree eating,....
as Dutty would say
"Rimshot" fadda ;D ;D
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All yuh Trinis will neva grow up people must still baby all yuh d trute could introduce itself and all yuh eh go recognize it.
Eg how we eh sertious dey just decide to start d mas on carnival fri I 5 min from my office and I cyah get down fred st because some men cyah wait till mon to jump and wave. Well d rest of us have to work
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Most of us not willing to put out the effort to go to next level and we does fight down anybody who reach there.
True statement. If you in a job home and you outperforming men first thing you hear is "What happen you a hero, you trying to make us look bad?".
Most men here need to realize those who view this website are a subset of Trinidad population. Many who happen to be foreigners or in very good jobs home who don't currently fall into Wim's generalization.
If you go home and talk to average Joe or Jane now, Joe or Jane is not saving or planning for the future. Right now Joe and Jane studying where they feting for the next five days. When you talk to a trini is one of three things the conversation usually ends up at, food, lime or woman, sports every now and then but that is part of the lime.
I have a decent income, better than most I know back home yet still most people at I know at home have a "best cellr phone" and asking me what I still doing with a Razr.. Men living in they mother house and buying music and rims for they ride and feting away they pay cheque. We like to eat and lime. If I lie let me know.
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I have a decent income, better than most I know back home yet still most people at I know at home have a "best cellr phone" and asking me what I still doing with a Razr.. Men living in they mother house and buying music and rims for they ride and feting away they pay cheque. We like to eat and lime. If I lie let me know.
You need tuh broaden yuh circles then...because in addition to man who struggling tuh make it or cyah see beyond de next fete, I also have pardners who running they own $1m dollar companies, setting up security systems, IT infrastructuring, and building homes in de hills in de west fuh expat executives moving back home...and all ah dem is black fellas who grow up poor like me. I mentioned the last part to show that this ent even the Syrians, 'local whites' and de rich Indian and dem who come from money.
But say what, allyuh happy with the characterization that Trinidadians are not hardworking, but are rather a simple people happy tuh siddung in de shade and sip dey rum and coconut water.