Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Big Magician on March 07, 2008, 09:21:49 AM
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Is long time now ah want to write this topic....
and i not afraid of tryng to find out why 99% of this forum turns into "Anti-christ" anytime the name "Corneal" is mentioned...
The thing is...nobody says why the "hate"....so i challenge you each to a man/woman to state your reason...
I will say mine now......I met Alvin and Anton years ago....and had many football discussions with them....not only coaching...football...stories , past players etc etc....
what i see is a family of people who live their lives for football.... ( like most of us in a sense....thats why we always here ent ??)...Anton is also a top class Pigeon racer....
both are past players and coaches of the country...
it cant be because of the lack of sucess of Alvin as national coach ...thats the Hate reason ??...serious?? .....did he drop you from a club or national team ???
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Whats the hate for Anton ??...because he is the second man to Qualify TnT to a youth world cup ??
because he working to become a better coach and hopefully serve the country in the future ???
so ah know now i will now be known as "Ah Corneal Man"...like "Ah Latas Man"....
but at least i saying my part....now leh meh hear allyuh...
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see wha ah mean ??....
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I cyar stand d fadder as a commentator and tactition. Knowing he has some influence on our football is upsetting to me. The way he raved about our team's performance in the goal cup where we earned a single point was testament of his tacit acceptance of the Warner policy of destruction. What did he call it, "Don't change a winning team'- refering to the Warner/Camps dynasty. Steups.
To be honest I doh have a problem with Anton.
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cool...thanks Jah Gol
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I think people hate them because they have had some success but also used that success to their advantage.
I think given his name Anton was able to get a coaching work in TnT that many people felt others was more qualified to do.
Also Alvin always talking about football but when he was the coach the team did not do well.
They also get scholarships for many of their own players but when other teams were trying to do the same Alvin Corneal was the first one to say they not eligible because they are "professional"footballers when $1500 form a PFL team in 1993 could hardle classify you as a professional.
Alvin now is a FIFA Technical Director and I am glad Jack was able to get that work for him. But some will hate because why not help others to get an opportunity.
In the end some will hate and some will praise.
Successful people will always have critics that is part of life.
The major issue that most people have is that they do not see the success build on merit rather build on a friend thing.
That said both corneals are probably the most experienced in terms of main stream FIFA coaching that we have on the island even if their results on the field dont always reflect it.
IF anton last name was not corneal he probably would not have that work.
There are many coaches who have an A licence who coach in University in america and run camps etc that are not even considered for a national role.
And there are many coaches in TnT work work day in and day out with players and clubs and schools etc and do not get a national position.
So in the end people just vex that he get the position when they did not.
But that could be said for any position.
some will win and some will lose.
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i think maybe it nepotisim (sic) and a percieved fight down by the Corneals of players who are not their favorites (Birchall)
and of course if yuh in good with Jack, birds of a feather....
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I believe most people dislike the the fadder because he involved in the football so long and never stand up to JW. He's just a puppet and people hate big men who stand for nothing. I think this feeling just spilled over to his son, because Anton just stroll in to a National coaching osition jus so.
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Playing wise
The facts Alvin was a boss Player.
Anton was a fringe national player with or without Gally being bad mind towards him even if it is true.
Coaching Wise
I know limited things about Alvin coaching winning teams etc but I know he is a FIFA director of coaching which is a big deal (But we know jack help him get that work)
Anton did a great Job to get the u17 team to the world cup but beyound that not much else at local or US leavel that I know about.
It is not like Alcons winning everything in football or Anton coaching jabloteh or something.
Look at WASA for example the coach of that side is always winning super league can we get him a national coaching work? or maybe he dont want it, maybe he dont even have a coaching badge does it matter?
That is the point.
How did they get to that point?
based on what merit?
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I don't hate anyone...besides Arsenal of course ;D.
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I think hate is a strong word. The general dislike for the Corneals stem from the fact that Alvin as a knowledgeable, experienced, influential person in the footballing fraternity, but he used this position more to put forward himself (and Anton) rather than to help the country.
He fight down every coach we had (because he considered himself better, it seemed) whether they were doing good or bad. Yet, he himself never did any better and in most cases he did worse, thus over the years his opinions continued to lose validity, whether or not some of them are/were sound.
Anton is disliked because he falls under his daddy Alvin's influence, which has yet proven to be any good for the country.
Plus, of all the people who pass thru Alcons coachign school...any of them ever come out and big up the Corneals like how people is big up Bertille?
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They not "grassroots" enough- automatic recipe for fight down in T&T....
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anton fight down julius. cyar give de details but that did it for me
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My personal beef is with Alvin. In the spring of 1991 when a brother was trying to get a scholarship, my college coach ask Alvin about me and he said he didn't know who I was. Cool. I didn't play for him. However, what he didn't say was that I led college league in scoring in 1990 and he commentated at least 5 or 6 of our games with me scoring in many of them.
That is my beef. Me eh say yuh go tell the man good things but nothing? Yuh didn't even know or hear bout me?
That is b..sh..
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Everyone on here have a storey they can tell or some experience they have had with the Corneals including myself,but i can tell you i have a lot of respect for them and maintain a friendship,i think HATE is a bit strong for people to hold against these guys for the hard work and dedication they have given to our country,i can understand them doing what ever they do in Football for personal gains,once people have to pay for anything home they does have problems,who are the Corneals friends?how did they become friends?they were the first to offer scholarships on a big scale and people picked up after,what did they gain from it?if we look at the quality of players they got scholarships for,it was not just any and any body,you had to have some brain with the ability else the schools not taking you,it's easy for people to bash the Corneals because like JW they around T&T Football a long time,we know their history,they only have to say or do something and people gone off,imagine that guy took our national Youth team to the WC and people say is Wim,he never got any credit for anything,the reason i'm saying these things is because i'm a Coach and i coached at all levels just like Anton and i know how it feels,this should tell us why the Coaneals are the way they are,people can do and say what ever they want but pay me,remember both of them left jobs in the US to come back home.
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WE? ::)
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Don't hate the man (Alvin) but dislike. He dropped my brother from the national team, he gets jobs based on his name and he is one of the worse commentator ever to grace a mike. Oh yeah he does try to hard.
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I dont know much about Anton Corneal but Alvin was a hero fuh me on the left wing.The man had everything and had he been playing football to day he would have been with the likes of Arsenal or Chelsea.
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I dont know much about Anton Corneal but Alvin was a hero fuh me on the left wing.The man had everything and had he been playing football to day he would have been with the likes of Arsenal or Chelsea.
Thank you for modifying...next time know better...
Big Up!
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yes...thanks...FRICO...please modify your post
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I don't know enough of Anton as a player, but as a coach, let the record speak for itself...he took our young warriors to the U-17 WC in Seoul.
As for Alvin, prior to early 2006, I had nothing but respect for a man who played football and cricket for T&T. The man has scored goals and centuries for T&T, and I don't think this will ever be emulated by any other player, for any other country. His sporting pedigree cannot be denied and on the field he represented us as a true patriot.
What cast for me a jaundiced light upon Alvin, was the fact that he openly expressed his discontent at Mr. Beenhakker's selection after our WC2006 qualification. Every man is entitled to his opinion, but at a time when we needed unity, this seemed to be an act of sabotage. Still though, I maintain a positive opinion of him and generally hold him in high regard.
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The man has scored goals and centuries for T&T, and I don't think this will ever be emulated by any other player, for any other country.
It have other fellas who represented T&T in football and played cricket for de West Indies (not just T&T). Corneal was just de last man to do it, he was not de first. As a matter of fact, Clifford Roach not only scored goals for T&T, but scored the first ever century and double century in the history of West Indies cricket. Viv Richards played football (World Cup Qualifiers) for Antigua as well as test cricket.
Here is a list of names of people who represented T&T at football and cricket:
Ellis "Puss" Achong (T&T and the West Indies)
Alvin Corneal (T&T)
Prior "Big Sam" Jones (T&T and the West Indies)
Arthur Maynard (T&T)
Clifford Roach (T&T and the West Indies)
Willie Rodriguez (T&T and the West Indies)
Jeffrey "Night Singer" Stollmeyer (T&T and the West Indies)
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Alvin 1st wuk when he was appointed coach after dey get rid ah Gally was 2 pick and play Anton. He was not even on d radar b4 dat. His commentary is d absolute wuss. He feel he is a real guru but all he does do is prop up JW and dem all ready discussed by Jah is his post.
D classic 4 me a sports commentator told me he invited Anton 4 an interview and Alvin turn up while Anton stay off set. Dat tells me that he eh he own man so poor Me Mum
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Tallman,
I think Alexander from JA played both football and cricket for the WI.
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Tallman,
I think Alexander from JA played both football and cricket for the WI.
Who, Gerry Alexander?
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All Point people hate the Corneals >:(
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I think hate is a strong word. The general dislike for the Corneals stem from the fact that Alvin as a knowledgeable, experienced, influential person in the footballing fraternity, but he used this position more to put forward himself (and Anton) rather than to help the country.
He fight down every coach we had (because he considered himself better, it seemed) whether they were doing good or bad. Yet, he himself never did any better and in most cases he did worse, thus over the years his opinions continued to lose validity, whether or not some of them are/were sound.
Anton is disliked because he falls under his daddy Alvin's influence, which has yet proven to be any good for the country.
Plus, of all the people who pass thru Alcons coachign school...any of them ever come out and big up the Corneals like how people is big up Bertille?
I agree with most of this post - i doh like hypocrites...if yuh syain' other coaches doing sh!t cuz x,y,z...doh turna blind eye to the same sh!t when yuh parder or boy holdin the fort.
Anton though...I think I go be able to say i like Anton by the end of the year.
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Big Mag I don't hate Alvin, when his name come up I does just ignore it and move on in disgust more than anything else.
I really have nothing against Anton but we will always have doubts about whether he deserve his chances or whether he get because he is ALvin son. That will irk some people.
But Alvin for all his coaching and player development work not helping the football. His agenda comes first, TnT football second. Back in the nineties the routine was: appoint Alvin as coach, fire him, have him criticize the current coach, fire that man and give Alvin back de wuk. Repeat.
Is not three times Alvin was head coach and he do nothing? If Wim and Bertie could get mash up as former head coaching failures why not Alvin.
The worse for me is how Alvin sell out to Jack though. People forget that Alvin used to be Jack's critic and now he is a yes man extraordinaire. For what? so yuh name could be on a setta FIFA technical panel and yuh could hug up Havelange, Blatter and Pele? so yuh could push yuh son career?
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BM I know both of them personally (I hope you not asking this question because of the joke I recently made)
Anyhow I seem to remember that the first time Alvin coach the national team was in the late 70's and he basically picked a colleges team to represent TT in a CFU tournament in Puerto Rico.
I think TT end up 2nd in that tournament.
I say to mihself this is a brave man.
After that stint he sort of just fell off the radar for me and then I worked with him and his son for awhile.
I have never found them to arrogant or selfish but like all sportsmen and most people in careers of any sort they think that their opinion is if not the right opinion but the most sensible.
As far as the family's contribution to football it has been large and it still is .
For that I agree with you BM .
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Quite honestly I've been staying away from contributing because I don't really know enough about either one to offer anything substantive...I know Alvin mainly as a commentator, not as the coach or sportsman many know him as. I certainly don't know either of them personally.
What I do notice though is that many disparage them because dat is what town say tuh do. Is like dat joke Cedric The Entertainer tells in the Original Kings of Comedy about black people...everybody hanging around until one man decide tuh run and de whole crowd run with him. Half ah mile later everybody wondering what happen and why de next man run tuh begin with.
People doh like Jack and anything remotely related tuh Jack becomes verboten...whether he wrong or right...is de same tired 'jackula' or 'tie tongue tief' comments...yadda yadda yadda. Same becomes true of those associated with Jack. I hear man say that Alvin sell out tuh get wuk with Jack/FIFA. Did Lincoln Phillips sell out too? Maybe he and Alvin sell out...maybe they didn't, but too often men are too quick to think in terms of absolutes when it comes to the TTFF and the people affiliated with it.
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They not good enough but always get the job ,or be in a position to influence team selection .Anton was ok with me till he pick Mc omeh to be his assistant ,he lost me rite they ,is then I say like he have to ride out from the head coach job too .
Look with Mocomie on one side ah Anton ,we ein t go see no Fenwick players and Alvin on the other side no Me mum or Julius and giggsy brother.Daiz good enough to inspire enough hate in me oui ,what they have to do kill priest ?
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Personally BM its personally due to their relationship with Jack Warner. The lack of BALLS (no pun intended) to deal with the issues concerning management and players. Jack say jump they jump and then ask how high. I also have a problem with Lincoln phillips. I think for Trinidad football to grown get rid of those managers without BALLS
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Personally BM its personally due to their relationship with Jack Warner. The lack of BALLS (no pun intended) to deal with the issues concerning management and players. Jack say jump they jump and then ask how high. I also have a problem with Lincoln phillips. I think for Trinidad football to grown get rid of those managers without BALLS
I agree with you to get rid of those managers without balls but can you give me the name of one manager with balls in T&T Football.
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Corneal has done good things.......some of de time. He has also done lots of unethical, thiefing, bad mind, arrogant, ignorant things. He has a hot temper....which has gotten him into numerous dicey situations over the years and shows respect for people only when he feels like it. I don't begrudge him for being a businessman and hustling opportunities like many other Trinis do, I just have 1st hand knowledge of alot of the things he has done to profit himself that have been really unfair to others. All said, I still do not hate de man or his son who I see as trying to do a professional job regardless of how de opportunities have come about.
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People dislike the Corneals because of the friend-friend selection and poor results despite badmouthing everyone else. I also think that is partly their fault because the abusing the power they got, but I think other coaches are to blame for not getting proper certification. I think their are loads of coaches who can do a great job at the National level however they need to be certified like the Corneals in order to compete with them for the job. Jan Steadman for instance literally create a legacy for Naps. He produce a team in 1999 that is probably the most consistent and fit I have seen in recent years. Mind You I doh like Naps eh(In Future If my son make a mistake and say he want to go Naps instead of Pres is licks ;D)....Anyhow I think their are coaches that could relate to players and get the right stuff out of them...Corneal and dem fellas feel they does shit ice cream and could treat players anyhow....Lemme tell you if a local coach with good charisma and have the know how on the level of fitness and technique our players need...I think we will flourish as a Football Nation....That is why I think TTFF should provide such ventures for local coaches to go outside and educate themselves...anyhow that is another story...Go T&T !!!
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thanks all.......
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because culturally we hate to hear self truths,
feel we know it all,
and fight down anyone with a different view which more than likely is a better one
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People doh like Jack and anything remotely related tuh Jack becomes verboten...whether he wrong or right...is de same tired 'jackula' or 'tie tongue tief' comments...yadda yadda yadda. Same becomes true of those associated with Jack. I hear man say that Alvin sell out tuh get wuk with Jack/FIFA. Did Lincoln Phillips sell out too? Maybe he and Alvin sell out...maybe they didn't, but too often men are too quick to think in terms of absolutes when it comes to the TTFF and the people affiliated with it.
Except that is not the case in this situation. I was the one who use the term sell out and it is not based on merely being affiliated with Jack. I know people who get licks for being associated with Jack who I respect dearly so I am very mindful of guilt by association.
The situations of Corneal and Lincoln are very different. Lincoln only return to the local scene recently and has been more working around Jack than for him. So much so that Jack has been critical of Lincoln's role.
Corneal used to be a vocal critic of Jack because it served his own agenda but as Jack became the consummate FIFA power broker and a millionaire football team owner Corneal has decided to come on board. Maybe sell out is a bad term because he was for himself before and is still for himself, which is the general criticism. He just decide, or realize, that the best way to serve himself is to be Jack's ally as opposed to his adversary.
Personally I am not one for the broad demonization of Jack. "Tie tongue tief" and "Jackula" are terms that I have never used to describe the man. When I criticize the man it is on things that are self evident, lack of professionalism, poor management, horrible accounting practices, an autocratic style that does not allow for new ideas etc. I never even accuse the man of stealing money because I can't prove that. For all we know the money just get wasted in typical administrative largesse. So this is not an example of not liking things because they are related to Jack.
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Personally I am not one for the broad demonization of Jack. "Tie tongue tief" and "Jackula" are terms that I have never used to describe the man. When I criticize the man it is on things that are self evident, lack of professionalism, poor management, horrible accounting practices, an autocratic style that does not allow for new ideas etc. I never even accuse the man of stealing money because I can't prove that. For all we know the money just get wasted in typical administrative largesse. So this is not an example of not liking things because they are related to Jack.
That is a very thoughtful and fair-minded critique. However repeated transgressions of lack of professionalism, poor management and horrible accounting practices combined with a lack of transparency and autocracy sends a strong "bobol" signal to the casual and not-so casual onlooker. That includes ordinary citizens, politicians and journalists. To not steal money when one could steal it, in large quantities to boot, or profit from one's position vis-a-vis things like ticket sale etc, in the face of such weak governance structures would mean our Jack is an exemplary human being blessed with great moral fortitude.
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To not steal money when one could steal it, in large quantities to boot, or profit from one's position vis-a-vis things like ticket sale etc, in the face of such weak governance structures would mean our Jack is an exemplary human being blessed with great moral fortitude.
eeeeff ;)
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People doh like Jack and anything remotely related tuh Jack becomes verboten...whether he wrong or right...is de same tired 'jackula' or 'tie tongue tief' comments...yadda yadda yadda. Same becomes true of those associated with Jack. I hear man say that Alvin sell out tuh get wuk with Jack/FIFA. Did Lincoln Phillips sell out too? Maybe he and Alvin sell out...maybe they didn't, but too often men are too quick to think in terms of absolutes when it comes to the TTFF and the people affiliated with it.
Except that is not the case in this situation. I was the one who use the term sell out and it is not based on merely being affiliated with Jack. I know people who get licks for being associated with Jack who I respect dearly so I am very mindful of guilt by association.
The situations of Corneal and Lincoln are very different. Lincoln only return to the local scene recently and has been more working around Jack than for him. So much so that Jack has been critical of Lincoln's role.
Corneal used to be a vocal critic of Jack because it served his own agenda but as Jack became the consummate FIFA power broker and a millionaire football team owner Corneal has decided to come on board. Maybe sell out is a bad term because he was for himself before and is still for himself, which is the general criticism. He just decide, or realize, that the best way to serve himself is to be Jack's ally as opposed to his adversary.
Personally I am not one for the broad demonization of Jack. "Tie tongue tief" and "Jackula" are terms that I have never used to describe the man. When I criticize the man it is on things that are self evident, lack of professionalism, poor management, horrible accounting practices, an autocratic style that does not allow for new ideas etc. I never even accuse the man of stealing money because I can't prove that. For all we know the money just get wasted in typical administrative largesse. So this is not an example of not liking things because they are related to Jack.
My commments weren't directed at you...frankly I didn't pay attention to who said what but in a couple posts the insinuation was there that he was critical of Jack until he recognized an opportunity to capitalize on Jack's standing in FIFA. In your case it may not be an instance of not liking Corneal because of the association...but reading between the lines, others have implied that exact sentiment. Can't say that I necessarily disagree...anyone who is too close to jack in the TTFF you kinda have to wonder about...but at the same time this shouldn't be the sole reason for not liking the Corneals. As we know with LP, there are scrupulous individuals who have no choice but to shake hands with the football devil in order to push the local sport forward. Whether this is true of the Corneals as well is a matter of conjecture.
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Personally I am not one for the broad demonization of Jack. "Tie tongue tief" and "Jackula" are terms that I have never used to describe the man. When I criticize the man it is on things that are self evident, lack of professionalism, poor management, horrible accounting practices, an autocratic style that does not allow for new ideas etc. I never even accuse the man of stealing money because I can't prove that. For all we know the money just get wasted in typical administrative largesse. So this is not an example of not liking things because they are related to Jack.
That is a very thoughtful and fair-minded critique. However repeated transgressions of lack of professionalism, poor management and horrible accounting practices combined with a lack of transparency and autocracy sends a strong "bobol" signal to the casual and not-so casual onlooker. That includes ordinary citizens, politicians and journalists. To not steal money when one could steal it, in large quantities to boot, or profit from one's position vis-a-vis things like ticket sale etc, in the face of such weak governance structures would mean our Jack is an exemplary human being blessed with great moral fortitude.
Zando I hear yuh completely, yuh wouldn't hear me defending suspect actions. The problem is when yuh make some of the criticisms too speculative, the factual easily provable ones get tainted in the process. If we want Jack and his crew out it is better to have provable criticisms.
There is no doubt that Warner is corrupt in his dealings as a football executive. Contracts to self and family, no transparent bidding process and the ticket scandal is a case where they clearly get caught.
Problem is that in the environment of FIFA all those things are par for the course, corruption is the way that business is done.
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Problem is that in the environment of FIFA all those things are par for the course, corruption is the way that business is done.
Could I add a small opinion.....
Fair enough JDB, but some people say that change starts with one person.
Maybe in this case change may start with the smallest country to qualify for the world cup thus far. So that is where I hope that exposing all of the suspect dealings may lead....change...with the help of people like jennings and also FPATT. ;)
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Problem is that in the environment of FIFA all those things are par for the course, corruption is the way that business is done.
Could I add a small opinion.....
Fair enough JDB, but some people say that change starts with one person.
Maybe in this case change may start with the smallest country to qualify for the world cup thus far. So that is where I hope that exposing all of the suspect dealings may lead....change...with the help of people like jennings and also FPATT. ;)
Change did start with qualification.
You know what the change was?
Jack Warner deify himself as the man who take TnT to the World Cup.
He has become even more bold, arguably more powerful in FIFA (probably because he has had to show his hand his determination to bring others down if necessary), and despite the general sentiment on this board the general public does just laugh off Jack's "indiscretions".
FPATT didn't from because we make the World Cup, they form because Jack amp up his mistreatment of the players and put things into sharp focus. Jennings was also criticising Jack long time but jack's arrogant actions post qualification give him much more fodder.
I am not saying that corruption is accepted but leveling those charges against him to FIFA don't make sense because after FIFA sit down and look at the situation, he has done nothing wrong.
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In my opinion the problem with Warner is that he is brazenely milking his cash cows in our faces, and we are seemingly powerless to do anything about it. That does make people real angry.
As for the Corneal's I reserve judgement on Anton. He is attempting to advance himself as an institutional coach via TTFF. For a truely talented coach I don't believe that is the right approach. I figure if our players can be big in European leagues, why can't a Trini coach a premier league team one day? But the closest thing we have now to a coach advancing themselfves from club status to national level is Shabazz.
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Alvin is just another disgruntled old man,holding on to jack warner coatails,prevnting progress and stagnating we football
I remember he telling one of my friends back in the 80`s,if he did not stop playing for Carenage United and come play for Maple he was never going to play for the under 19 team and true to his word, my friend did not make the team
That man sad and bad mind from a long time
Can you tell me when he scored a centry for Trinidad I cannot recall that one
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Can you tell me when he scored a centry for Trinidad I cannot recall that one
He scored 123 against Guyana in 68/69 and 103 not out against Jamaica in 69/70.
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Has Anton Corneal ever coached a senior team at the club level? Anyone have an answer? BM?
If so, how successful was he?
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Has Anton Corneal ever coached a senior team at the club level? Anyone have an answer? BM?
If so, how successful was he?
Check out his CV at this link:
http://alvinacorneal.com/biographymore.html
This shows a very comprehensive (though biased) history of Alvin.
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the only thing I hate about the Corneal's is Alvin commentating and the way he fight down Beenhakker Birchall et al...
What I must say is that they're an easy target. Alvin represents in his own way, everything that is wrong with TNT (you could make a parallel with politics/politicians in TNT). In a small society with very little history, you have one man who been around (it seems) since rock of ages was a pebble, who have a disproprotional influence in his domain, and who through the (perceived) strings he has been able to pull for his son (who has since also achieved quite a bit in the domain) is building some sort of a dynasty...
Very easy to pull 'hate' on that alone Now I am sure you will probably find that most people in Trini don't have a problem with nepotism unless it not beneffiting them, but that is besides the point... I'm sure if you add some of his questionable criticism of other coaches, his treatment of other players/coaches, his yesmanism towards Jack etc etc that is sufficient motivation.
Anton is mostly collateral damage...
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I am sorry about the what I posted on 07-03-08 about Alvin Corneal,it was stupid and I am very sorry.
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I am sorry about the what I posted on 07-03-08 about Alvin Corneal,it was stupid and I am very sorry.
as bertille would say.........."do push ups"
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Has Anton Corneal ever coached a senior team at the club level? Anyone have an answer? BM?
If so, how successful was he?
Check out his CV at this link:
http://alvinacorneal.com/biographymore.html
This shows a very comprehensive (though biased) history of Alvin.
What biased about it star ? Is a CV, what your CV like ? Unbiased ?
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All the people in here who saying dey ent like Corneal about this or that or they friend or cousin say so jus full of .....
Come out plain and say " mih blood jus ent take him" or whatever other irrational prejudiced reason and stop trying to come up with nonsense to justify.
And for those that doh like him because FIFA does pay him and that imply that Jack is his sponsor , well think about all the hundreds of people that working for Jack and the thousands that he probably sponsored also and by extention yuh have to hate or dislike them too. Trinidad is a small place it probably have family in dey.
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Has Anton Corneal ever coached a senior team at the club level? Anyone have an answer? BM?
If so, how successful was he?
Check out his CV at this link:
http://alvinacorneal.com/biographymore.html
This shows a very comprehensive (though biased) history of Alvin.
What biased about it star ? Is a CV, what your CV like ? Unbiased ?
Hence the parentheses.
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Has Anton Corneal ever coached a senior team at the club level? Anyone have an answer? BM?
If so, how successful was he?
Check out his CV at this link:
http://alvinacorneal.com/biographymore.html
This shows a very comprehensive (though biased) history of Alvin.
What biased about it star ? Is a CV, what your CV like ? Unbiased ?
Hence the parentheses.
What difference that make ? This whole thread is almost full fledged character assasination based on all kind of 2nd and 3rd hand experience real or unreal and seta smartass innuendoes
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Has Anton Corneal ever coached a senior team at the club level? Anyone have an answer? BM?
If so, how successful was he?
Check out his CV at this link:
http://alvinacorneal.com/biographymore.html
This shows a very comprehensive (though biased) history of Alvin.
What biased about it star ? Is a CV, what your CV like ? Unbiased ?
Hence the parentheses.
What difference that make ? This whole thread is almost full fledged character assasination based on all kind of 2nd and 3rd hand experience real or unreal and seta smartass innuendoes
Fishs, I used his CV to give a factual basis of his accomplishments, around which we can build a discussion. The whole point was to present a balanced view of his history, and not simply engage in "character assassination". I actually hold both Corneals in high regard based on their accomplishments, if you consider my original post of this thread.
At the same time like all CV's, including mine, it puts a positive spin on things. It presents only one side of the coin. A man cannot be judged by his CV alone. That's why when we apply for a job, we require both personal and professional references. That's why I used the word "biased", which now I see was naive and redundant.
Fishs, I apologize if my contribution to this thread has degenerated into something that has offended you.
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Has Anton Corneal ever coached a senior team at the club level? Anyone have an answer? BM?
If so, how successful was he?
Check out his CV at this link:
http://alvinacorneal.com/biographymore.html
This shows a very comprehensive (though biased) history of Alvin.
Note that I asked about ANTON, not Alvin Corneal.
Let me ask again.
Has Anton Corneal ever coached a senior team at the club level? Anyone have an answer? BM?
If so, how successful was he?
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Fishs, I apologize if my contribution to this thread has degenerated into something that has offended you.
You ent have nutten to apologize for in my book...I doh see the "character assassination" that Fishs talking about. A solid 80-90% of what has been contributed is information that is either already in the public domain or information that is readily available. The other contributions have been personal anecdotes. If their public record casts aspersions on their characters then so be it. If their private dealings with individuals on here casts aspersions on their characters then so be it.
How much 'character assassination' Warner, Camps, Manning et al have been subjected to on here? Fishs ah really eh understand whey yuh coming from on this one at all dred.
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Hate is a very strong word, but with regard to his football activities I have to say I am in the 'Dislike Alvin Corneal Camp'. My opinion on Anton is very irrational as I am dubious about Anton purely because he seems to have very close football links with his father.......who I dislike! He did a good job with the U-17's, but his U-20 stint was poor so I need to see more success at something before I have a truly positive opinion about him.
Why do I dislike Alvin Corneal? (Please remember it's a personal opinion!) While growing up in T&T I always found him to be a very negatively opinionated individual, always seemed to know better than the coach on the field, they never seemed to be able to do anything right. At first I thought little of it as you expect that from so called 'subject matter experts' hired by the media, it's their job after all. Through meh Dad's job I occasionally attended functions where I managed to experience the guy in person. He always gave me the impression of a person who thinks quite a lot of himself, his achievements and (perceived) experience. That ain't so bad in itself, but he also gave the impression of a person that gives lip-service to the opinions of others unless your views are in-tune with how he views things. People like that have always riled me. No matter what your line of work is, If you have ever worked with a person like that you will understand why I have always found it difficult to stomach the guy ever since.
I have great respect for Lincoln and Gally and even Bertile. Their achievements are tangible, Lincoln (correct me if I'm wrong) is our most successful local coach to ply his trade in foreign football (ASL/NASL), Gally was the first local coach to produce a genuinely competitive (and mostly local) national team. Bertile, considering his playing CV is not as impressive as Mr.Corneal, has achieved much more success in the international arena. I know what they have done and I've seen documented records to back it up what I haven't. All I have for Alvin Corneal is his CV and some very average national team performances.
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Has Anton Corneal ever coached a senior team at the club level? Anyone have an answer? BM?
If so, how successful was he?
Check out his CV at this link:
http://alvinacorneal.com/biographymore.html
This shows a very comprehensive (though biased) history of Alvin.
Ah wonder if he pick he wife because she name started with A?
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Fishs, I apologize if my contribution to this thread has degenerated into something that has offended you.
You ent have nutten to apologize for in my book...I doh see the "character assassination" that Fishs talking about. A solid 80-90% of what has been contributed is information that is either already in the public domain or information that is readily available. The other contributions have been personal anecdotes. If their public record casts aspersions on their characters then so be it. If their private dealings with individuals on here casts aspersions on their characters then so be it.
How much 'character assassination' Warner, Camps, Manning et al have been subjected to on here? Fishs ah really eh understand whey yuh coming from on this one at all dred.
For real.
Ah big man ask ah question and big men choose to respond to him. Nobody didn't call the man a "fowl f*****" or anything of the sort, like what we could see going on between men on the forum...
Take it easy fishs. Imagine that for once a thread actually staying on topic...If you want people to compliment the Corneal's all you need to do is start a thread with that in the title. If you have a problem with the opinions expressed therein you might want to pm the thread creator to delete it....
my 0.02c
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leh we see some action here now
change the title to say
"Why do we HATE Wim ???
the gloves are off.........
:devil: :devil:
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leh we see some action here now
change the title to say
"Why do we HATE Wim ???
the gloves are off.........
:devil: :devil:
Oh Lord ::)
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Fishs, I apologize if my contribution to this thread has degenerated into something that has offended you.
You ent have nutten to apologize for in my book...I doh see the "character assassination" that Fishs talking about. A solid 80-90% of what has been contributed is information that is either already in the public domain or information that is readily available. The other contributions have been personal anecdotes. If their public record casts aspersions on their characters then so be it. If their private dealings with individuals on here casts aspersions on their characters then so be it.
How much 'character assassination' Warner, Camps, Manning et al have been subjected to on here? Fishs ah really eh understand whey yuh coming from on this one at all dred.
Maybe I'm tainted by the fact that I know them personally and worked with Alvin and Anton when they were both at different periods attached to the Ministry of Sport.
You hate somebody because he did not pick this or that one , he is not a good commentator, he said this to somebody who told me about it etc etc.
Look at the contribution that the Older Corneal has made and the younger also.
Alright let me put it another way if God forbids Mr. Corneal leaves us tomorrow, how will history judge him ?
As somebody that did hurt to football in Trinidad ?
Or as a good father, a decent man, a hard worker and specifically to sport in Trinidad , a football hall of famer, a man that gave multitudes of fans sporting entertainment, a man that has devoted his entire life to the sport .
I think that his living legacy deserves more than the nonsense of this thread.
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Fishs, I apologize if my contribution to this thread has degenerated into something that has offended you.
You ent have nutten to apologize for in my book...I doh see the "character assassination" that Fishs talking about. A solid 80-90% of what has been contributed is information that is either already in the public domain or information that is readily available. The other contributions have been personal anecdotes. If their public record casts aspersions on their characters then so be it. If their private dealings with individuals on here casts aspersions on their characters then so be it.
How much 'character assassination' Warner, Camps, Manning et al have been subjected to on here? Fishs ah really eh understand whey yuh coming from on this one at all dred.
Maybe I'm tainted by the fact that I know them personally and worked with Alvin and Anton when they were both at different periods attached to the Ministry of Sport.
You hate somebody because he did not pick this or that one , he is not a good commentator, he said this to somebody who told me about it etc etc.
Look at the contribution that the Older Corneal has made and the younger also.
Alright let me put it another way if God forbids Mr. Corneal leaves us tomorrow, how will history judge him ?
As somebody that did hurt to football in Trinidad ?
Or as a good father, a decent man, a hard worker and specifically to sport in Trinidad , a football hall of famer, a man that gave multitudes of fans sporting entertainment, a man that has devoted his entire life to the sport .
I think that his living legacy deserves more than the nonsense of this thread.
Nah man, de thread eh nonsense. If you note the tenor of my posts I'm neutral and largely observant. If you note the tenor of the Big Magician's posts, he's largely pro-Corneal(s). So in a similar vein, it would probably help create a more rounded picture if you add you personal perspective which may serve to cast them in a better light.
If at the end of the day we end up with more negatives than positives...then say what, that's life. If the Corneals have rubbed people wrong that's on them and affects only their dealings with those individuals, shouldn't affect how you feel about the Corneals or otherwise taint your perspective...that should be all that really matters to you. No?
:beermug:
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Fishs, I apologize if my contribution to this thread has degenerated into something that has offended you.
You ent have nutten to apologize for in my book...I doh see the "character assassination" that Fishs talking about. A solid 80-90% of what has been contributed is information that is either already in the public domain or information that is readily available. The other contributions have been personal anecdotes. If their public record casts aspersions on their characters then so be it. If their private dealings with individuals on here casts aspersions on their characters then so be it.
How much 'character assassination' Warner, Camps, Manning et al have been subjected to on here? Fishs ah really eh understand whey yuh coming from on this one at all dred.
Maybe I'm tainted by the fact that I know them personally and worked with Alvin and Anton when they were both at different periods attached to the Ministry of Sport.
You hate somebody because he did not pick this or that one , he is not a good commentator, he said this to somebody who told me about it etc etc.
Look at the contribution that the Older Corneal has made and the younger also.
Alright let me put it another way if God forbids Mr. Corneal leaves us tomorrow, how will history judge him ?
As somebody that did hurt to football in Trinidad ?
Or as a good father, a decent man, a hard worker and specifically to sport in Trinidad , a football hall of famer, a man that gave multitudes of fans sporting entertainment, a man that has devoted his entire life to the sport .
I think that his living legacy deserves more than the nonsense of this thread.
Nah man, de thread eh nonsense. If you note the tenor of my posts I'm neutral and largely observant. If you note the tenor of the Big Magician's posts, he's largely pro-Corneal(s). So in a similar vein, it would probably help create a more rounded picture if you add you personal perspective which may serve to cast them in a better light.
If at the end of the day we end up with more negatives than positives...then say what, that's life. If the Corneals have rubbed people wrong that's on them and affects only their dealings with those individuals, shouldn't affect how you feel about the Corneals or otherwise taint your perspective...that should be all that really matters to you. No?
:beermug:
I have a code that only allows me to view people who represent TT in a particular way.
I respect and admire sportsmen who are picked to represent TT because of what it takes to get there .
I would watch them perform for TT against other teams and either excel, be average or poor.
Now some people would describe the poor performers as sh*t hounds or waste of time etc. Me? I consider the fact that they would have put in the effort to acheive national status and for that I would never redicule them regardless of performance (and if you check my history I have never done that).
I would say for instance that a team collectively is sh*tty.
And I will come down hard on any foreigner that comes here and performs badly because for him its a job ( WC i.e Wim).
But hatemongering of a national sporting hero on a public forum is unpatriotic and says a lot about us as a people.
And I know BM is complimentary of the Corneals , in fact check his history on the forum and you will find that he hardly if ever denigrates any local national player or ex-player.
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I have a code that only allows me to view people who represent TT in a particular way.
I respect and admire sportsmen who are picked to represent TT because of what it takes to get there .
I would watch them perform for TT against other teams and either excel, be average or poor.
Now some people would describe the poor performers as sh*t hounds or waste of time etc. Me? I consider the fact that they would have put in the effort to acheive national status and for that I would never redicule them regardless of performance (and if you check my history I have never done that).
I would say for instance that a team collectively is sh*tty.
And I will come down hard on any foreigner that comes here and performs badly because for him its a job ( WC i.e Wim).
But hatemongering of a national sporting hero on a public forum is unpatriotic and says a lot about us as a people.
And I know BM is complimentary of the Corneals , in fact check his history on the forum and you will find that he hardly if ever denigrates any local national player or ex-player.
I hear you...and generally we'd be in agreement, not on this one though. And let me preface, because of late I'm realizing how sensitive some are regarding their opinions...I ent fighting yuh down b/c of yuh opinion, just voicing disagreement. I tend to be more critical than most of our athletes, but I also try to be fair to them. I have never walked in their shoes and never will and I have a huge amount of respect for what an achievement it is to represent one's country at the highest levels...it takes a lot of dedication and at times much sacrifice. So for that reason I never engage in any 'fight down' or tearing down of ah man just because he happens to be a public figure wearing our colors.
That said, with the Corneals...Alvin at least since there is a larger public record there, I don't believe much of this has to do with his service to our fair isles...but rather the criticism seems a direct consequence of his personal dealings with many. Case in point...de fella (too lazy to go back and check) who mentioned that he led the SSFL in scoring one year and yet when a US college coach came calling Corneal disavowed any knowledge of him. Is it possible that Alvin never heard of de yute...sure. Is it probable...not likely. So...I wasn't dey resident in he mind to know what was going on, but here from my perch behind mih computer screen it smells an awful lot like some small-minded business. Why? and for what reason? Very reminiscent of the Peltier incident involving Wim and McComie. Why deny a young man an opportunity where it would (seemingly) cost you nothing to say a kind contributory word?
So...dispensing with the long-talk, the simple route would be to dismiss all of this as badmind mauvais langue business, but a more nuanced reading would reveal that many of these are real and personal gripes that these men apparently brought on themselves. As you make your bed, so shall you lay.
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Case in point...de fella (too lazy to go back and check) who mentioned that he led the SSFL in scoring one year and yet when a US college coach came calling Corneal disavowed any knowledge of him. Is it possible that Alvin never heard of de yute...sure. Is it probable...not likely.
I know the fella name and it is IMPOSSIBLE that Alvin could say that he never heard of him.
But to address Fishs...
First of all no one is “hatemongering” Big Mag used the word but very few of the posters have echoed the sentiment. It has been much more of a “why I dislike Alvin” thread.
I would say that the negative posters on the thread have been very careful to quote specific instances and activities and not just name call or bad talk the man. That is a lot more respect than other characters get on here, both local and foreign.
Also nothing that you have said about Alvin is being discounted. The fact that he was one of our best ever players, a former coach, develop plenty footballers and represent abroad, is all known and taken into account when people give their opinions. People know all that but have less tolerance for the “bad” things about Corneal because they do not have a personal relationship to consider.
You are in a tough position. You have a personal relationship with someone who is being discussed on a public forum. You have a personal perspective and we thank you for it but you are not the only one to deal with that on this board.
I remember giving a story I heard about Jack Warner where he was visiting a personal friend and heard a story about a sick child, unrelated to anyone that he knew, who needed an operation. He instantly wrote out a $10,000 cheque. This must have been 10 years ago and it is a nice story that might say that the man is not all bad. Certainly to the young lady he is a saviour.
But would I expect that to colour the opinion on the board? Absolutelynot. Why should that personal interaction mean more to people, who have no personal stake in it, than the general mismanagement of our football?
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correck...i should have used "Dislike"
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Big Magician,
This is a very intriguing topic you raised. In my opinion, this is one of the best threads I have seen in a longtime – it is thought provoking and there are some solid pro-and-con arguments. For the many who say you dislike Alvin Corneal, I UNDERSTAND. Why does the name, “Corneal” trigger such strong emotions?
As many may know, I played under Alvin and played with him. Even on Alvin’s teams, deep feelings were expressed about him, but somehow people were still magnetized to him. You may love him or you may dislike him, but you cannot deny him. It is amazing how much of the public cannot stand him, but at the same time, he has remained in the T&T sporting forefront for over 40 years.
Regarding Anton, I believe he has not been fairly judged because of his father. Yes, his dad pushed him. Which father would not push his son, especially when he has talent? Furthermore, he has obtained his qualifications. People keep talking about Anton like he is a little boy; he is a big man - well in his 40s. I have known him a longtime, I must say he is a wonderful person. I have seen him conduct sessions and I have had numerous discussions with him on the game, and I have been quite impressed. He also has a great temperament as a coach.
Let me return to Alvin. I will describe him as a “survivor,” but absolutely not a “puppet.” I have always been amazed by his survival skills. If you really want to get a reality check about your soccer ability, ask Alvin, but if you wish to get a nice answer about it, go and ask Paula Abdul. The man is not easy, but I tell you, he has had such a large impact on the T&T football game and careers of others. I will be the first to say if it were not for Alvin Corneal and Lincoln Phillips, I would not be the person I am today.
I will end with two questions: (1) Who are the qualified T&T football coaches? (2) Which T&T nationals do you respect and trust to put in leadership sporting positions?
Love to all,
Trevor Leiba
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Case in point...de fella (too lazy to go back and check) who mentioned that he led the SSFL in scoring one year and yet when a US college coach came calling Corneal disavowed any knowledge of him. Is it possible that Alvin never heard of de yute...sure. Is it probable...not likely.
I know the fella name and it is IMPOSSIBLE that Alvin could say that he never heard of him.
Just suppose that he did in fact forget the player's name for that moment.
then I find it VERY UNPROFESSIONAL for him to just disregard the question and NOT say that he would at the least check into the persons playing Stats.
And I will come down hard on any foreigner that comes here and performs badly because for him its a job ( WC i.e Wim).
the Problems that got in Wim's way are STILL present today man....granted that the man was a hot head and GC would have done a better job....SO WHAT...there are those right here on this Forum who have HOTTER HEADS.
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I wonder how nobody answer my question yet:
Has Anton Corneal ever coached a senior team at the club level? Anyone have an answer? BM?
If so, how successful was he?
This is our Assistant Head Coach of the Senior Team. This is a simple question, right?
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Thanks for the post Trevor...
Jahyouth...to my knowledge..No..Anton did not coach no senior team at club level...unless you count Alcons in the East zone...
He is part of the TTFF Techincal team...
So he did U-20 to the Concacaf final round....and U-17 to the World Cup
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Thanks for the post Trevor...
Jahyouth...to my knowledge..No..Anton did not coach no senior team at club level...unless you count Alcons in the East zone...
He is part of the TTFF Techincal team...
So he did U-20 to the Concacaf final round....and U-17 to the World Cup
So the Assistant Head Coach of our Senior Team has had no significant senior team coaching experience at any level other than the "East Zone"?
But that is very strange?
How then is he a mainstay of the TTFF Technical Staff then?
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most people (footballers) of my era dislike Alvin because he had and push his own agenda, if you were not member alcons went to st marys, qrc, fatima or any of those so call prestige schools it was pure fright down from alvin. In anton`s case he mostly got a bad rap because of his father he was a good player but hard his name not been corneal he may not have been given the amount of opportunities he has had, but to give jack he jacket Alvin was instrumental in getting for talented players a chance to get attend us colleges ..................................ah bet they hate David Nakid now that was their boy