Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Flex on May 01, 2008, 05:32:37 AM
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W/Cup bonus judgment next week.
By: Lasana Liburd (Express).
Decision delayed.
The Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) and 16 of their 2006 World Cup players must wait until next week for judgment in their wrangle over commercial revenue earned from the "Soca Warriors" historic qualification for the FIFA showcase tournament.
The third and final day of the arbitration hearing for the Warriors and the T&TFF ended yesterday in London with legal representatives for either side taking two hours each to summarise their positions before arbitrator, Ian Mill QC.
The 16 players and the T&TFF allegedly agreed, in early 2006, to split 50 per cent of all income accrued from the team's participation in the prestigious Germany-based tournament.
However, the Warriors contested the validity of the T&TFF's accounting and their decision to deduct expenses prior to offering payment and, after contemplating a suit in civil court, accepted their employers' request to seek justice before the London-based Sport Dispute Resolution Panel.
Ex-West Ham player and ESPN commentator Shaka Hislop, Southampton striker Stern John, Gillingham goalkeeper Kelvin Jack and Ross County defender Brent Sancho appeared as witnesses for the players while the T&TFF did not offer any witness.
English barrister William McCormack SC and local lawyers Om Lalla and Kelvin Ramkissoon represented the T&TFF. The local football organising body argued that talks between their special advisor and FIFA vice-president Jack Warner and the players never reached a level of certainty required by law to become a legal contract.
McCormack also suggested the players superceded all previous financial discussions when they signed a FIFA participation agreement, before the tournament, that did not adequately address their commercial concerns.
The players, represented by the English legal team of Rupert Butler SC and Michael Townley, countered that they did receive a contract-albeit an oral one-which had nothing to do with the standard FIFA participation contract signed by all guest nations. Legal representatives for either side requested a detailed written award from Mill, which is likely to come next week.
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Soca Warriors, TTFF to face T&T Courts
By: Francis Joseph (Trinidad Guardian)
The money dispute involving members of the 2006 Soca Warriors team and the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) is shifting gears from London to the Port-of-Spain High Court. The TTFF, the Guardian learnt, is no longer interested in arbitration proceedings in London. So, the TTFF, through its lawyers, have petitioned the local court seeking to have the money dispute settled in Trinidad. The matter was called before Justice Gregory Smith in the Port-of-Spain High Court on Wednesday. There is an application from the TTFF to lift an order which had prevented the local High Court from hearing the money dispute until the conclusion of arbitration proceedings in London.
The local football association said it was no longer interested in the London proceedings because lawyers representing the 16 players breached the confidentiality clause last year in comments made to a local newspaper and to other international media houses, after the T&T Guardian had exclusively published the judgment of the arbitrator. Hearing of the application to remove the order has been put to June 16. The postponement of the application further delays the attempt by the players to recover money they claim are due to them as a result of the 2006 World Cup campaign. It will be heard in the middle of the Soca Warriors campaign for South Africa 2010.
On May 18, 2008, British arbitrator Ian Mill QC ruled that the Soca Warriors were entitled to 50 per cent of the profits of the TTFF derived from the Road to Germany campaign. But the proceedings never progressed because of the comments made after the ruling. The dispute between the players and the TTFF which had its genesis in 2004 when T&T began the World Cup journey to Germany. The players had originally agreed to 30 percent of the net profts, but that was changed to 50 percent following meetings with the TTFF and its special advisor, Jack Warner. According to Mill, the 50 percent was finally agreed upon on June 12, 2006. Both parties had agreed that the hearings would be in private and no one was to disclose the contents of the proceedings or judgment.
The 16 players who took the TTFF to arbitration were, Marvin Andrews, Christopher Birchall, Atiba Charles, Cyd Gray, Ian Cox, Cornell Glen, Shaka Hislop, Avery John, Stern John, Kenwyne Jones, Kelvin Jack, Collin Samuel, Brent Sancho, Aurtis Whitley, Evans Wise and Anthony Wolfe. Representing the players were British attorneys Rupert Butler and Mike Townley, while Englishman William Mc Commick assisted by Trinidad lawyers Om Lalla and Kelvin Ramkissoon appeared for the TTFF. The players contended that after T&T defeated Bahrain 2-1 to qualify for the World Cup Finals, the TTFF received US$5.6 million from Fifa. As a result, the players argued that there was an inevitable commercial spin in that sponsors paid large sums of money to be associated with any of the teams reaching the finals.
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High Court backs payments for Soca Warriors: ...TTFF ordered to honour 2006 W/Cup agreement
By Lasana Liburd
Story Updated: Aug 1, 2010 at 1:12 AM ECT
The Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) was accused of time-wasting and ordered by Acting Justice Devindra Rampersad to honour its agreement to pay bonuses to the 2006 World Cup football team, dubbed the "Soca Warriors", and legal costs, which are expected to be in excess of $3 million.
On November 19, 2008, the TTFF filed a stay of proceedings in the High Court that prevented the 16 players—since reduced to 14—from enforcing the judgment of the London-based Sport Dispute Resolution Panel (SDRP), on the grounds a supposed breach of confidentiality by the claimants "severely undermined" the defendants' faith in the SDRP and, as a result, "they no longer agree to be bound by the agreement".
The SDRP ruled on May 19, 2008, due to a contract made by United National Congress (UNC) chairman and TTFF Special Adviser Jack Warner with the players, the Warriors were owed 50 per cent of all 2006 World Cup commercial revenue and declared an immediate independent audit of the local football body's financial books for that period.
On Thursday afternoon, Justice Rampersad dismissed the TTFF's appeal and ruled in favour of the players.
"This court, therefore, finds that the breaches complained of by the defendants," stated Justice Rampersad, "did not go to the root of the arbitration agreement, and in those circumstances, the agreement remains irrevocable in accordance with Section 3 of the Trinidad and Tobago Arbitration Act 1950, which states that, 'an arbitration agreement, unless a contrary intention is expressed therein, shall be irrevocable except by leave of the court and shall have the same effect in all respects as if it had been made an order of the Court'."
The World Cup players who initially filed suit against the TTFF are Marvin Andrews, Shaka Hislop, Kelvin Jack, Atiba Charles, Cyd Gray, Ian Cox, Avery John, Brent Sancho, Chris Birchall, Aurtis Whitley, Collin Samuel, Evans Wise, Anthony Wolfe, Cornell Glen, Kenwyne Jones and Stern John. However, Andrews and Birchall are understood to have subsequently settled privately.
The remaining footballers will request an interim payment of roughly $1.8 million each—their share of the $88 million the T&TFF claimed to receive as World Cup commercial revenue—when the High Court reopens in September before auditors decide the complete figure due.
A Freedom of Information Act request in 2007 suggested the TTFF's earnings are closer to $180 million, exclusive of gate receipts and broadcast and television rights. In October 2006, the TTFF had offered the World Cup players just $5,644 each.
The SDRP ruled in favour of the players while Justice Rampersad dismissed the TTFF's case as frivolous and described the TTFF's conduct in the matter as "troubling".
"It is difficult for this court to understand the defendants' submission," stated Rampersad "…Indeed, as the claimants rightly submit, even in light of their admitted breach, the defendants have failed to advance any proof to the Court in this regard … The post-award disclosures of the award itself would not raise the mischief against which the confidentiality provisions were directed… The surrounding circumstances of the confidentiality obligation very strongly indicate just how otiose the defendants' claim to confidentiality is at this point."
The TTFF was represented in the High Court by Om Lalla, instructed by Kelvin Ramkissoon, while George Hislop—father of World Cup player and ESPN commentator Shaka Hislop—appeared for the players and was instructed by Dave De Peiza.
The players' London-based solicitor Michael Townley was elated.
"I knew we should win, but the length of time it was taking to get the judgment made it all a bit uncertain and nerve-racking," said Townley. "In the end, it was worth the wait …Now, getting paid is the next step, and we recognise that we are dealing with a party who seems determined to carry on regardless of any amount of evidence.
"Nobody forced their hand to enter in an agreement, so at what point will they seek to recognise it?"
Warner could not be reached for comment by telephone yesterday while TTFF president Oliver Camps said he would follow his lawyer's advice and make no comment on the case.
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Next ting men get pay with a government cheque. :devil:
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High Court backs payments for Soca Warriors: ...TTFF ordered to honour 2006 W/Cup agreement
By Lasana Liburd
On Thursday afternoon, Justice Rampersad dismissed the TTFF's appeal and ruled in favour of the players.
I eh go lie... as much as there was no legal leg for Jack to stand on, given the level ah ratchefee in Trinidad... ah was worried fuh ah second fuh de players sake. Ah find the court shoulda tack on legal fees, interest and sanction Lalla doh. What a c**t... waste of court time and resources hearing this meritless bullshit claim.
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I heard this story on Thursday afternoon, but was awaiting confirmation. Ah guess mih source was good :angel:
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J U D G E M E N T
Now Jack put that in your pipe and smoke it
Dont choke......... on it..... :devil:
Whey the devil day.......
Now pay up.......accountabality ....JACK
R A S P E C T
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J U D G E M E N T
Now Jack put that in your pipe and smoke it
Dont choke......... on it..... :devil:
Whey the devil day.......
Now pay up.......accountabality ....JACK
R A S P E C T
No problem... TTFF broke so Jack go pay Jack and den Jack go pay de players... no problem!!
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The thing is, Jack has made things worse and worse. If he had agreed to pay back in the day, he probably could have paid the guys $50,000 and they would have accepted as they had no idea how much money was raised by TTTF.
He could have settled in 2008, but again chose not to.
Now he is UNC Chairman, Minister of Works and Deputy Prime Minister and this becomes a political issue through no fault of the players.
We know TTTF is broke and this will probably bankrupt them and there should be a forensic audit of their accounts. As I understand it, Ministers have to declare their assets, so Jack can't magically make some money appear. Rowley et al will be watching this with eagle eyes. If Jacks affairs are investigated, it may show some discrepancies in the money used to fund the UNC campaign.
For once, I hope Jacks affairs are squeaky clean because I wouldn't like to see the UNC govt fall because of this.
My worry is that the whole UNC govt will turn against the players when they have done nothing wrong.
The other issue is that it has now been proved by the court that Jack lied on several occasions during his election campaign when he said that "all but 4 players had settled". Unfortunately, Anil decided to make some false statements too. The press should be attacking these two gentlemen to ask why they made false statements to the electorate and request their resignations. FIFA and CONCACAF should also examine Jacks actions as, by association, he has brought both organisations into disrepute.
Interesting times ahead.
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:applause: :applause: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :flamethrower: :flamethrower: :applause: :applause:
Keep up the fight fellas. Watch Jack's next move eh people....change the TTFF's name. The stunt he was trying to pull last year but was stymied in his attempts.
Check ah next ting. It was said that this judgement was ready since late last year. I had a hunch that it was deliberately delayed until after the elections so Jackula wouldn't look bad....ah feel mih hunch correct....
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‘Spalksman’ bats for Warner
By DARCEL CHOY Sunday, May 23 2010
SPORTS commentator Anil Roberts yesterday criticised members of the 2006 Soca Warriors football team who played at the World Cup in Germany.
On Friday, the footballers staged a press conference to express their dissatisfaction that bonuses promised to them have not been settled as yet.
At the People’s Partnership Rally at the Aranjuez Savannah yesterday O’Meara/D’Abadie candidate Roberts, known as the “Spalksman” said that from the $82 million that was given to the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation, $44 million was to be allocated should the team reach second round of the World Cup.
“As far I remember we did not score a goal. We did not win a game so they are less than honest,” he said. Roberts said it was passing strange that the players led by goalkeeper Kelvin Jack spoke under a banner which he described as being in “PNM colours.”
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Minister of Sport Anil Roberts was either lied to by Jack about the money owed, or he chose to distort the truth for political reasons. He even had the nerve to state the banner was in PNM colours! These guys were so desperate to win the election.
How can our Minister of Sport, who openly and repeatedly praised the 2006 squad suddenly say the players are less than honest because "we did not score a goal. We did not win a game" ? What does that have to do with a court case?
As Minister of Sport, Roberts should immediately back the players, print an apology to them, launch an investigation into TTTF and Mr Warners involvement in football, suspend all those involved for tarnishing the good name of Trinidad & Tobago and invite all 13 players to a reception to prove the govts support and honour our national heroes.
Their names have been tarnished by this dispute. They have been blacklisted, thus damaging their careers, they have been called greedy, blackmailers and less than honest. It is now Anils job as Sports Minister to right these wrongs and publicly celebrate their contribution to sport and the rights of players to fight for truth. The 10 players who settled should not be invited and Anil should comment on their characters for selling themselves and their team mates out.
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Football supporter, Anil wasn't lied to. He knows exactly what he is doing....he is just another one of Jack's lapdog.....one free trip to Bahrain and he gone clear. He KNOWS Jack owes the players, doh get tie up with Anil at all!!!
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Football supporter, Anil wasn't lied to. He knows exactly what he is doing....he is just another one of Jack's lapdog.....one free trip to Bahrain and he gone clear. He KNOWS Jack owes the players, doh get tie up with Anil at all!!!
I hear you hon....just trying to be non partisan. Unlike some people, I will only criticise on facts, other than that, I just ask questions that need to be answered!
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The thing is, Jack has made things worse and worse. If he had agreed to pay back in the day, he probably could have paid the guys $50,000 and they would have accepted as they had no idea how much money was raised by TTTF.
He could have settled in 2008, but again chose not to.
Now he is UNC Chairman, Minister of Works and Deputy Prime Minister and this becomes a political issue through no fault of the players.
We know TTTF is broke and this will probably bankrupt them and there should be a forensic audit of their accounts. As I understand it, Ministers have to declare their assets, so Jack can't magically make some money appear. Rowley et al will be watching this with eagle eyes. If Jacks affairs are investigated, it may show some discrepancies in the money used to fund the UNC campaign.
For once, I hope Jacks affairs are squeaky clean because I wouldn't like to see the UNC govt fall because of this.
My worry is that the whole UNC govt will turn against the players when they have done nothing wrong.
The other issue is that it has now been proved by the court that Jack lied on several occasions during his election campaign when he said that "all but 4 players had settled". Unfortunately, Anil decided to make some false statements too. The press should be attacking these two gentlemen to ask why they made false statements to the electorate and request their resignations. FIFA and CONCACAF should also examine Jacks actions as, by association, he has brought both organisations into disrepute.
Interesting times ahead.
Yes very interesting times ahead!!
Lets see how Jack wiggles himself out of this one!
Wonder if he will be able to find some way to use T&T Taxpayers money to settle up with the players because yuh know he eh paying them from his poscket if he can help it!
Whey de players money gone Jack? Did you spend some of it on the UNC election campaign?!! ::)
Is time to pay up Jack!! Yuh must stop making promises yuh doh intend to keep especially as yuh is ah minister now! 8)
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PAT TUH F#CK UP... NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
HEROES
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PAT TUH F#CK UP... NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
HEROES
Eh?? Yuh loss mih Big Mag.... ??? :-\
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PAT TUH F#CK UP... NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
HEROES
Eh?? Yuh loss mih Big Mag.... ??? :-\
"PAY"... :)
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PAT TUH F#CK UP... NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
HEROES
Eh?? Yuh loss mih Big Mag.... ??? :-\
"PAY"... :)
Oh ho..... ;D ;D
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I hope the leaders of the TTFF get removed from Top to bottom.
Mis management to to highest degree.
anything less than a resignation is unacceptable.
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I hope the leaders of the TTFF get removed from Top to bottom.
Removed by whom... themselves?
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I hope the leaders of the TTFF get removed from Top to bottom.
Removed by whom... themselves?
Dem like Hulsie-X, yuh cyah move dem! Just ask Jack if yuh think we joking! 8)
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dey having so much financial audits these days.Ah hope dey financial audit TTFF.
PAY DE PLAYERS JACK !!!! yuh get hang jack !!!!!!!
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Dey may not audit de TTFF....doh dey should.
But think...even if they could......you think Jack care? He have bigger fish to fry.....and 5 years to do it.
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OK so next move appeal to the Court of Appeal and then d Privy Council. So it eh ovah yet but keep d fight up boys. All yuh is real warriors.
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http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/99707534.html
Pay the footballers! Pay the footballers! :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel:
Forward to 0:11
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/YEuBv9dZ134
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEuBv9dZ134
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I waiting fuh Frico, Diamondtrim, YoursTruly and all the others who was bumping dey facking gum about players being greedy and how it was political and how arbirtration not binding and all kinda shit. Ah want dem to come open dey mouth now.
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dey say Camps had no comment... he ever had a facking comment ??
PAY PAY PAY PAY PAY PAY
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Bake n Shark - Who gets the news bout the Women's Under-17 team first?
Bake n Shark - Who gets the Pro League scores first?
Bake n Shark - Who can attest to the fact that the greedy players cannot make a national team again (and most of them have squandered their funds, like Otis Seaton, Anthony Wolfe (who cant win a county council election) and Cyd Gray - imagine a man who got a house from CLICO fighting for a wuk at Ma Pau)?
Bake n Shark - if you wanna be like Rowley and just talk for talking sake, just fork off and reincarnate, for peace sake!
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Bake n Shark - Who can attest to the fact that the greedy players cannot make a national team again (and most of them have squandered their funds, like Otis Seaton, Anthony Wolfe (who cant win a county council election) and Cyd Gray - imagine a man who got a house from CLICO fighting for a wuk at Ma Pau)?
what does this have to do with monies owed for services already rendered?
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Well, didnt they get a $1 million each from Government, as well as money from FIFA for participating in the World Cup? What more they want (for being the fourth-best team in the 2005 CONCACAF Final Round qualifying group)? Blood?
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Bake n Shark - Who gets the news bout the Women's Under-17 team first?
Bake n Shark - Who gets the Pro League scores first?
Bake n Shark - Who can attest to the fact that the greedy players cannot make a national team again (and most of them have squandered their funds, like Otis Seaton, Anthony Wolfe (who cant win a county council election) and Cyd Gray - imagine a man who got a house from CLICO fighting for a wuk at Ma Pau)?
Bake n Shark - if you wanna be like Rowley and just talk for talking sake, just fork off and reincarnate, for peace sake!
How you know they squander they money. Not because man fighting to play for a team mean they spend all they money. Not because the gov't give them a mill, they should sit on they arse and ain't do nothing. At least they still out their playing. Big name Euro players have plenty money and still playing at 34-38. i.e Palo Maldini. He has money up he kakhole and was stilkl fighting sweat with Milan up to last year. And of course they can't make the TT because of the blackmail.
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nah your truly...you not serious ??
they had an agreement...thats all...come on
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dey say Camps had no comment... he ever had a facking comment ??
Without leave, that is.
Bake n Shark - Who gets the news bout the Women's Under-17 team first?
Bake n Shark - Who gets the Pro League scores first?
Bake n Shark - Who can attest to the fact that the greedy players cannot make a national team again (and most of them have squandered their funds, like Otis Seaton, Anthony Wolfe (who cant win a county council election) and Cyd Gray - imagine a man who got a house from CLICO fighting for a wuk at Ma Pau)?
Bake n Shark - if you wanna be like Rowley and just talk for talking sake, just fork off and reincarnate, for peace sake!
Bake n Shark- who doh really give half a f**k about the little high school accomplishments that count as achievement in your sorry life.
If only I was big time like you... Pro League and U-17 Women's scores... wow. I'm awed.
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Well, didnt they get a $1 million each from Government, as well as money from FIFA for participating in the World Cup? What more they want (for being the fourth-best team in the 2005 CONCACAF Final Round qualifying group)? Blood?
no blood necessary: what was agreed upon would suffice.
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Well, didnt they get a $1 million each from Government, as well as money from FIFA for participating in the World Cup? What more they want (for being the fourth-best team in the 2005 CONCACAF Final Round qualifying group)? Blood?
The million dollars from the gov't has nothing to do with the TTFF. Are you telling me that they should have accepted that piitance Jack was going to give them. What if they gov't had not given them that money. Truly, if you or one of your family had Jack boot on all yuh head, it would have been a different story.
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Daryn, Deeks and Big Magician, I'll continue our EDUCATED discourse jus now, lemme discipline a neophyte.
Bake n Shark, I have little high school accomplishments - I did not do A Levels, but I'm a better journalist than you'll ever be, take that in ur anus and smoke it.
Pro League and Under-17 Women scores, something you cant get, can't achieve and cannot obtain, know anyone who will help you to keep updated with local sporting news, or give you the news first, instead of relying on this website for news?
I don't mind if my life is sorry, I am blessed by the Lord above and I am proud.
As I keep on saying, only men eat Bake n Shark, so if you wanna ask like the he-she that you really are, you can proceed, and when I see you do any reporting on local football, then you'll get an iota of respect from me; you know-it-all fraud!!!!!!
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Bake n Shark, I have little high school accomplishments - I did not do A Levels, but I'm a better journalist than you'll ever be, take that in ur anus and smoke it.
Pro League and Under-17 Women scores, something you cant get, can't achieve and cannot obtain, know anyone who will help you to keep updated with local sporting news, or give you the news first, instead of relying on this website for news?
I don't mind if my life is sorry, I am blessed by the Lord above and I am proud.
As I keep on saying, only men eat Bake n Shark, so if you wanna ask like the he-she that you really are, you can proceed, and when I see you do any reporting on local football, then you'll get an iota of respect from me; you know-it-all fraud!!!!!!
Lol... God knows I never got Pro League and other local football scores before you joined this site. I really dunno what I'd do if yuh wasn't around tuh impart yuh wisdom. Ah mean, you de only cipher for local sporting information anywhere... right?
"only men eat Bake n Shark"... dat doh even make any kinda sense yuh big f**king dunce. Not only is it literally untrue, even if it was the analogy is too attenuated to even work as some sort of homophobic insult, the way yuh trying so desperately for it to be.
I understand smoke and mirrors well doh, yuh talk so much shit and getting call out on it now so yuh grasping at straws to deflect attention from the fact yuh didn't know what the f**k yuh was talking about with regards to the arbitration agreement. Calling you a retard would be an insult to the poor little retards out there. But there is hope for you yet...
(http://www.clueponbook.com/images/cluepon.gif)
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Yes there is hope, in life there is hope.
So go and take a pee and go in your bed, I think it's past your bedtime and you may need your bottle and diaper change. Anyway, even the Ricky Shakes topic I got (YES I GOT IT FIRST) you responded; so reactionary and after-the-fact it aint funny.
Anything new you have to raise?
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This is my stance Deeks, Daryn and Big Magician.....
The players got a lot of money for scoring no goals in three W/Cup matches and also having to play Bahrain to get a final-day place in Germany.
My point is that, most of the players who are still in this arbitration etc, they are either at the twilight of their careers (like Sancho, Cyd Gray) or at a point of no return (like Kenwyne Jones, Anthony Wolfe and Stern John).
After Germany, what have they done to improve their careers? I mean we all love money, that's a fact of life, but I don't know if anyone of them have invested what they have learnt to further enhance TT football (like do coaching clinics, assist in terms of developing young players etc).
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I find talk about man anus to be repulsive.
We must try to be dispassionate about the issue and acknowledge a few unassailable truths.
Jack Warner made a deal with the players.
He reneged on the agreement.
Players and TTFF went to arbitration
Arbitrators ruled in favour of the players
The TTFF ignored the decision
Players took TTFF to court
The High Court rules in favour of Players
Independently verified on two occasions.
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Yes there is hope, in life there is hope.
So go and take a pee and go in your bed, I think it's past your bedtime and you may need your bottle and diaper change. Anyway, even the Ricky Shakes topic I got (YES I GOT IT FIRST) you responded; so reactionary and after-the-fact it aint funny.
Anything new you have to raise?
Just to illustrate the utter silliness of your argument (not that any of that is surprising), so the fact that Royalian posted this article and you responding means what, that you "reactionary and after-the-fact"? Do you even know the meaning of the term 'reactionary' you assc**t? This is where an 'A' Level edumacation would have served you better.
Fuh ah big time journalist yuh get caught napping man... ah rank forumite like Royalian scoop yuh on de biggest off-field football story of the year.
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The story was written by Lasana Liburd, not Royal, that was on the EXPRESS website before Royal posted it.
Bake n Shark, are you a mistake God put on this earth?
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The story was written by Lasana Liburd, not Royal, that was on the EXPRESS website before Royal posted it.
Bake n Shark, are you a mistake God put on this earth?
Did I ever say that Ryalian wrote the article you indefatigable jackass? Same way the Shakes article was posted on the Starbroek News website and yuh run and copy it... why YOU didn't post this article first since yuh so big time? Wha'm yuh was too busy wid yuh Pro League scores or what?
Yuh self-touting tun tun.
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Liburd wrote the story, Royal posted the story.
I was busy checking how stale your mom's saltfish is, and if she is still capable of replenishing the earth with anal ornaments like you!!!!!!!!!!!1
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Liburd wrote the story, Royal posted the story.
I was busy checking how stale your mom's saltfish is, and if she is still capable of replenishing the earth with anal ornaments like you!!!!!!!!!!!1
After such a well-thought out secondary school insult I'm not sure how to respond... what yuh couldn't remember "de sky is blue de grass is green, yuh mudda cyat like ah tanka bean"? When yuh checked ah hope she "replenish" one right in yuh mouth, tuh go along with all dat other set ah shit yuh been talking whole thread.
Anyways... my job is done. Now for Frico and diamondtrim to show up and complete the jackass brigade.
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I waiting fuh Frico, Diamondtrim, YoursTruly and all the others who was bumping dey facking gum about players being greedy and how it was political and how arbirtration not binding and all kinda shit. Ah want dem to come open dey mouth now.
I appreciate the anticipation of my inevitable response, and I applaud you for your memory.
My position remains the same, however untenable it may be for you and others. Victories are not won by virtue of a singular and limited success. Indeed, I am inclined to agree with Jean Paul Sartre in suggesting that once the details of a victory is realised, it is sometimes difficult to distinguish it from a defeat. This issue is not yet settled. Rather it merely leans unstably on the side of one party. Celebrations, while understood, are too premature in their nature and biased in their execution.
Risking my prose again be misconstrued as vehement defense of JW & Co, I am certain that when appealed, and appealed again, JW will have his victory.
I am grateful that these players had their proverbial day in court, but I am steadfast that the judge was misguided in his decision and this will be proven in due course.
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You know guys, I'm real disapointed with what I've been reading.
Yours Truly....its long been assumed (perhaps unfairly) that you are somehow linked to Jack or TTTF. Therefore, I was looking forward to reading your views on this ruling. Instead, you write a tirade of abuse and untruths. What does it matter how the guys spend their money? Its their money, worked for and earned honestly, so if they want to buy clothes or cars or prostitutes, its their business and this is not the place to comment on their lifestyles. And why should they spend their money on coaching schools etc? As a journalist, do you give your money to literacy charities? Gregory Trujillo has cancer and needs to raise money for a cancer operation. How much did you give? North East Stars presented him with a cheque for $2,600 on saturday, so where was you? My point is, you spend your money as you see fit, and the same goes for the players.
The fact they got $1 million from a grateful govt has nothing to do with this case. That was a gift, this is contracted recompense for work carried out. And I'm pretty sure the FIFA qualifying money is part of the funds owed.
Bakes...I gotta say, you let the man drag you into a pissing contest....rise above it dude.
Considering its emancipation weekend, I think this whole case shows that you can rid yourself of white slavers but you must ensure they are not replaced by black slave bosses. Jack has total disregard for the law and that means he has total disregard for the citizens of T&T. I don't give a shit about party politics, but you cannot continue with Jack as acting Prime Minister. I just hope Kamla can stand up and investigate him.
UNC = Intergrity? Lets wait and see.
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Me eh really care if dey eh score NO goals, if dey qualify 44th in CONCACAF. I get 2 a WC because ah dem plus nobody put a gun 2 JW head when he made d deal.
SO :beermug: 2 MY 20-06 WARRIORS WHO WATCH EVIL IN D FACE AND SAID ENUFF. As 4 jokers who never started d battle :bs: and does who lost faith along d way :loser:
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Well, didnt they get a $1 million each from Government, as well as money from FIFA for participating in the World Cup? What more they want (for being the fourth-best team in the 2005 CONCACAF Final Round qualifying group)? Blood?
I knew it!! You come on here pretending to share information on the goings on with the football team but you really are just another one of Jack's lapdogs!! You're a f*&%$#ng idiot!!
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Diamondtrim....can you explain your reasons for this statement? I am grateful that these players had their proverbial day in court, but I am steadfast that the judge was misguided in his decision and this will be proven in due course.
I don't know if you're a lawyer, but it seems to me that 2 courts in two continents have ruled in the players favour using case law and precedents. In what way was the judge misguided? And there is no right of appeal because by going to arbitration both parties waive that right and the finding is final. TTTF contested on a point of law, namely breach of confidentiality, not on the verdict. In fact, TTTF didn't even appear at the arbitration hearing to offer any defence.
Please enlighten us!!
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This is my stance Deeks, Daryn and Big Magician.....
The players got a lot of money for scoring no goals in three W/Cup matches and also having to play Bahrain to get a final-day place in Germany.
My point is that, most of the players who are still in this arbitration etc, they are either at the twilight of their careers (like Sancho, Cyd Gray) or at a point of no return (like Kenwyne Jones, Anthony Wolfe and Stern John).
After Germany, what have they done to improve their careers? I mean we all love money, that's a fact of life, but I don't know if anyone of them have invested what they have learnt to further enhance TT football (like do coaching clinics, assist in terms of developing young players etc).
ah guess you cud do alot when yuh blacklisted . oh the possibilities ::)
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I find talk about man anus to be repulsive.
We must try to be dispassionate about the issue and acknowledge a few unassailable truths.
Jack Warner made a deal with the players.
He reneged on the agreement.
Players and TTFF went to arbitration
Arbitrators ruled in favour of the players
The TTFF ignored the decision
Players took TTFF to court
The High Court rules in favour of Players
Independently verified on two occasions.
Thanks for putting it in perspective Jah Gol....its so easy a cave man could do it ...unless of course you want to be deliberately dotish to fullfill the master's bidding...
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So leh meh ask this one thing, could this be dragged out any longer? as in appeals and bankruptcy, or is this FINAL??!!
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So leh meh ask this one thing, could this be dragged out any longer? as in appeals and bankruptcy, or is this FINAL??!!
I'm sure the fight is far from over....
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The ruling is final. Payment will most certainly be delayed. If the court forces TTTF to open its books, not only will they be forced into bankruptcy, but they will also be investigated. Worse (or best) case scenario is that the judge orders a forensic audit to be carried out by overseas investigators. As we know, that could uncover all sorts of dead bodies in the closet and could eventually lead to the resignation of the UNC/COP govt if Jack has been moving money around, which I'm sure he hasn't. :whistling:
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I find talk about man anus to be repulsive.
We must try to be dispassionate about the issue and acknowledge a few unassailable truths.
Jack Warner made a deal with the players.
He reneged on the agreement.
Players and TTFF went to arbitration
Arbitrators ruled in favour of the players
The TTFF ignored the decision
Players took TTFF to court
The High Court rules in favour of Players
Independently verified on two occasions.
Thanks for putting it in perspective Jah Gol....its so easy a cave man could do it ...unless of course you want to be deliberately dotish to fullfill the master's bidding...
Jah d players did not take d TTFF 2 court,. D TTFF get dey loopy dogs in d Guardian 2 leak d story and then say d players leak so d judgment should b overturned.
D Court say yuh wasting time. Mind u d court waste nuff time as well.So leh meh ask this one thing, could this be dragged out any longer? as in appeals and bankruptcy, or is this FINAL??!!
I'm sure the fight is far from over....
Tryin 2 verify but meh bush lawyer knowledge tellin meh dat u could only appeal on a point of law so dis might be it. Have 2 confirm wit d real lawyers.
We know come tue the TTFF goin and declare bankruptcy. We know dey bankrupt of ideas for decades now.
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The ruling is final. Payment will most certainly be delayed. If the court forces TTTF to open its books, not only will they be forced into bankruptcy, but they will also be investigated. Worse (or best) case scenario is that the judge orders a forensic audit to be carried out by overseas investigators. As we know, that could uncover all sorts of dead bodies in the closet and could eventually lead to the resignation of the UNC/COP govt if Jack has been moving money around, which I'm sure he hasn't. :whistling:
Wasn't there a requirement somewhere in this whole bachanal for the TTFF to open to their books?? That's what Jackula/TTFF was trying to fight with this matter before the High Court....a smoke screen to deflect away from having to do just that....
BTW, did the Guardian report on this story?? ....hhhhhmmmm....
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The ruling is final. Payment will most certainly be delayed. If the court forces TTTF to open its books, not only will they be forced into bankruptcy, but they will also be investigated. Worse (or best) case scenario is that the judge orders a forensic audit to be carried out by overseas investigators. As we know, that could uncover all sorts of dead bodies in the closet and could eventually lead to the resignation of the UNC/COP govt if Jack has been moving money around, which I'm sure he hasn't. :whistling:
Wasn't there a requirement somewhere in this whole bachanal for the TTFF to open to their books?? That's what Jackula/TTFF was trying to fight with this matter before the High Court....a smoke screen to deflect away from having to do just that....
BTW, did the Guardian report on this story?? ....hhhhhmmmm....
cant say that ive seen the story. an i read d guardian today.
only lasana have d balls to report dis. we probably wud have never heard d ruling (or heard it anytime soon) if it wasnt for him
lasana, big up yuhself, yuh large everytime!
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I find talk about man anus to be repulsive.
We must try to be dispassionate about the issue and acknowledge a few unassailable truths.
Jack Warner made a deal with the players.
He reneged on the agreement.
Players and TTFF went to arbitration
Arbitrators ruled in favour of the players
The TTFF ignored the decision
Players took TTFF to court
The High Court rules in favour of Players
Independently verified on two occasions.
Thanks for putting it in perspective Jah Gol....its so easy a cave man could do it ...unless of course you want to be deliberately dotish to fullfill the master's bidding...
Jah d players did not take d TTFF 2 court,. D TTFF get dey loopy dogs in d Guardian 2 leak d story and then say d players leak so d judgment should b overturned.
D Court say yuh wasting time. Mind u d court waste nuff time as well.So leh meh ask this one thing, could this be dragged out any longer? as in appeals and bankruptcy, or is this FINAL??!!
I'm sure the fight is far from over....
Tryin 2 verify but meh bush lawyer knowledge tellin meh dat u could only appeal on a point of law so dis might be it. Have 2 confirm wit d real lawyers.
We know come tue the TTFF goin and declare bankruptcy. We know dey bankrupt of ideas for decades now.
My bad . Left that out.
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I find talk about man anus to be repulsive.
We must try to be dispassionate about the issue and acknowledge a few unassailable truths.
Jack Warner made a deal with the players.
He reneged on the agreement.
Players and TTFF went to arbitration
Arbitrators ruled in favour of the players
The TTFF ignored the decision
Players took TTFF to court
The High Court rules in favour of Players
Independently verified on two occasions.
Thanks for putting it in perspective Jah Gol....its so easy a cave man could do it ...unless of course you want to be deliberately dotish to fullfill the master's bidding...
Jah d players did not take d TTFF 2 court,. D TTFF get dey loopy dogs in d Guardian 2 leak d story and then say d players leak so d judgment should b overturned.
D Court say yuh wasting time. Mind u d court waste nuff time as well.So leh meh ask this one thing, could this be dragged out any longer? as in appeals and bankruptcy, or is this FINAL??!!
I'm sure the fight is far from over....
Tryin 2 verify but meh bush lawyer knowledge tellin meh dat u could only appeal on a point of law so dis might be it. Have 2 confirm wit d real lawyers.
We know come tue the TTFF goin and declare bankruptcy. We know dey bankrupt of ideas for decades now.
My bad . Left that out.
MUCHO IMPORTANTE DATThe ruling is final. Payment will most certainly be delayed. If the court forces TTTF to open its books, not only will they be forced into bankruptcy, but they will also be investigated. Worse (or best) case scenario is that the judge orders a forensic audit to be carried out by overseas investigators. As we know, that could uncover all sorts of dead bodies in the closet and could eventually lead to the resignation of the UNC/COP govt if Jack has been moving money around, which I'm sure he hasn't. :whistling:
Wasn't there a requirement somewhere in this whole bachanal for the TTFF to open to their books?? That's what Jackula/TTFF was trying to fight with this matter before the High Court....a smoke screen to deflect away from having to do just that....
BTW, did the Guardian report on this story?? ....hhhhhmmmm....
cant say that ive seen the story. an i read d guardian today.
only lasana have d balls to report dis. we probably wud have never heard d ruling (or heard it anytime soon) if it wasnt for him
lasana, big up yuhself, yuh large everytime!
GUARDIAN :rotfl:
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The only good thing I read in here is the first post.
I'm not naive enough to think that this is the end, but it's good to hear some positive developments:
However, reading some opinions on here, I can't believe what some people would go to to sanction rank dishonesty though:
First it was, "Was there an agreement?"
Then was "Is a verbal agreement binding?"
Now is "Should we uphold an agreement for players who are washed up and not doing anything for their country/community?"
Hear nah. Why not just ask the question that you really want to ask? ::)
"Why should the great and mighty Jack Warner be subject to the law like any common mortal"
Anyway, enough of that. Keep up the good fight Warriors :wavetowel:
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You know guys, I'm real disapointed with what I've been reading.
Yours Truly....its long been assumed (perhaps unfairly) that you are somehow linked to Jack or TTTF. Therefore, I was looking forward to reading your views on this ruling. Instead, you write a tirade of abuse and untruths. What does it matter how the guys spend their money? Its their money, worked for and earned honestly, so if they want to buy clothes or cars or prostitutes, its their business and this is not the place to comment on their lifestyles. And why should they spend their money on coaching schools etc? As a journalist, do you give your money to literacy charities? Gregory Trujillo has cancer and needs to raise money for a cancer operation. How much did you give? North East Stars presented him with a cheque for $2,600 on saturday, so where was you? My point is, you spend your money as you see fit, and the same goes for the players.
The fact they got $1 million from a grateful govt has nothing to do with this case. That was a gift, this is contracted recompense for work carried out. And I'm pretty sure the FIFA qualifying money is part of the funds owed.
Bakes...I gotta say, you let the man drag you into a pissing contest....rise above it dude.
Considering its emancipation weekend, I think this whole case shows that you can rid yourself of white slavers but you must ensure they are not replaced by black slave bosses. Jack has total disregard for the law and that means he has total disregard for the citizens of T&T. I don't give a shit about party politics, but you cannot continue with Jack as acting Prime Minister. I just hope Kamla can stand up and investigate him.
UNC = Intergrity? Lets wait and see.
Point understood, by the way, North East gave Trujillo money, not the footballers whom he spent nearly 40 years reporting on (including the Warriors).
But I get ur drift, seems to be sincere in your statement and I respect it. Btw, I am not linked to Jack but he is a journalist's dream - in terms of getting stories, on any topic.
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Well, didnt they get a $1 million each from Government, as well as money from FIFA for participating in the World Cup? What more they want (for being the fourth-best team in the 2005 CONCACAF Final Round qualifying group)? Blood?
I knew it!! You come on here pretending to share information on the goings on with the football team but you really are just another one of Jack's lapdogs!! You're a f*&%$#ng idiot!!
Breds, I dont have to pretent to share info on the goings on with the football team; I post results of the Pro League (which I beat you with, Sundays to Sundays) and I put any info on local football that I deem relevant to local football.
You can say what you want about me being a forking idiot and Jack lapdog, if it wasnt for Jack getting a fourth-place playoff for CONCACAF, NONE of those players would have played in a World Cup, you know that and I know that.
Thank you and know who u talking to (me being a pretender - hehehehehe).
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Breds, I dont have to pretent to share info on the goings on with the football team; I post results of the Pro League (which I beat you with, Sundays to Sundays) and I put any info on local football that I deem relevant to local football.
You can say what you want about me being a forking idiot and Jack lapdog, if it wasnt for Jack getting a fourth-place playoff for CONCACAF, NONE of those players would have played in a World Cup, you know that and I know that.
Thank you and know who u talking to (me being a pretender - hehehehehe).
So JW get a 4th place in CONCACAF TNT get it we qualify 4 d WC. D players alone benefit from we goin WC . So by your logic be thankful all yuh go a WC and 4get that all yuh had a contract. In fact dey shoulda play 4 free because dey get 2 go a WC. I fully understand thanks 4 clearing dat up.
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Yea your job is done, go and eradicate your diaper rash and go and sleep.
Don't forget to have the potty nearby eh.
Aye, you know you said I'm a big-time journalist, earlier on you labelled me a joke? Can you be consistent, or you're a count (taking away the letter o) instead?
After such a well-thought out secondary school insult I'm not sure how to respond... what yuh couldn't remember "de sky is blue de grass is green, yuh mudda cyat like ah tanka bean"? When yuh checked ah hope she "replenish" one right in yuh mouth, tuh go along with all dat other set ah shit yuh been talking whole thread.
Anyways... my job is done. Now for Frico and diamondtrim to show up and complete the jackass brigade.
[/quote]
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Well, didnt they get a $1 million each from Government, as well as money from FIFA for participating in the World Cup? What more they want (for being the fourth-best team in the 2005 CONCACAF Final Round qualifying group)? Blood?
I knew it!! You come on here pretending to share information on the goings on with the football team but you really are just another one of Jack's lapdogs!! You're a f*&%$#ng idiot!!
Breds, I dont have to pretent to share info on the goings on with the football team; I post results of the Pro League (which I beat you with, Sundays to Sundays) and I put any info on local football that I deem relevant to local football.
You can say what you want about me being a forking idiot and Jack lapdog, if it wasnt for Jack getting a fourth-place playoff for CONCACAF, NONE of those players would have played in a World Cup, you know that and I know that.
Thank you and know who u talking to (me being a pretender - hehehehehe).
ah feel ah missing someting.
Yours Truly...how old are you? No serious....
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Between the ages of 20-50.
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Yea your job is done, go and eradicate your diaper rash and go and sleep.
Don't forget to have the potty nearby eh.
Aye, you know you said I'm a big-time journalist, earlier on you labelled me a joke? Can you be consistent, or you're a count (taking away the letter o) instead?
Man accuse you of being Fuentes... but nah, I doubt even Fuentes (lapdog that he is and all) could be dis facking dotish. Wha'ppen dey never teach yuh about sarcasm in yuh jurnahliss skool or what? With all yuh talk about anus and potty and diapers... is now I starting tuh understand de degree ah yuh anal fixation.
------------------------------------------
Football Supporter... "pissing contest"? Wha'ppen yuh never put laglee on branch or what? :)
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Yea my fixation on you, and what if your dad's wood was as long as a tonka bean you may have been conceived with a semi-effective cranium.
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Well, didnt they get a $1 million each from Government, as well as money from FIFA for participating in the World Cup? What more they want (for being the fourth-best team in the 2005 CONCACAF Final Round qualifying group)? Blood?
I knew it!! You come on here pretending to share information on the goings on with the football team but you really are just another one of Jack's lapdogs!! You're a f*&%$#ng idiot!!
Breds, I dont have to pretent to share info on the goings on with the football team; I post results of the Pro League (which I beat you with, Sundays to Sundays) and I put any info on local football that I deem relevant to local football.
You can say what you want about me being a forking idiot and Jack lapdog, if it wasnt for Jack getting a fourth-place playoff for CONCACAF, NONE of those players would have played in a World Cup, you know that and I know that.
Thank you and know who u talking to (me being a pretender - hehehehehe).
ah feel ah missing someting.
Yours Truly...how old are you? No serious....
:rotfl: :rotfl:
Yuh understand Signal....I eh know where these fellas does come out nah....
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You can say what you want about me being a forking idiot and Jack lapdog, if it wasnt for Jack getting a fourth-place playoff for CONCACAF, NONE of those players would have played in a World Cup, you know that and I know that.
and that's not even to mention the time he singlehandedly scored 3 second half goals against Guatemala after these same greedy players were foolish enough to concede. Or when he sneak on the field wearing the Birchall suit and equalize against Bahrain.
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I still dont understand why men fighting down the players after all the facts that men, especially on this board are given and have been given since 2006. What so wrong about holding someone to their promise? Classic scenario, if you perform well at work and yuh boss pull yuh in the office and say, listen, im so proud of you im going to raise your salary by 10%, but same time u win the lottery. Just because you win the lottery doesnt mean that your boss didnt promise to reward your efforts so there is nothing wrong with making him honor that verbal contract.
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I still dont understand why men fighting down the players after all the facts that men, especially on this board are given and have been given since 2006. What so wrong about holding someone to their promise? Classic scenario, if you perform well at work and yuh boss pull yuh in the office and say, listen, im so proud of you im going to raise your salary by 10%, but same time u win the lottery. Just because you win the lottery doesnt mean that your boss didnt promise to reward your efforts so there is nothing wrong with making him honor that verbal contract.
Stop talkin so much sense.
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look at bacchanal going on in here
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/Mr_Muggles/GIFS/ofoy0k.gif)
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cant we all just get along??
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Well, didnt they get a $1 million each from Government, as well as money from FIFA for participating in the World Cup? What more they want (for being the fourth-best team in the 2005 CONCACAF Final Round qualifying group)? Blood?
no blood necessary: what was agreed upon would suffice.
hehehe
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Diamondtrim....can you explain your reasons for this statement? I am grateful that these players had their proverbial day in court, but I am steadfast that the judge was misguided in his decision and this will be proven in due course.
I don't know if you're a lawyer, but it seems to me that 2 courts in two continents have ruled in the players favour using case law and precedents. In what way was the judge misguided? And there is no right of appeal because by going to arbitration both parties waive that right and the finding is final. TTTF contested on a point of law, namely breach of confidentiality, not on the verdict. In fact, TTTF didn't even appear at the arbitration hearing to offer any defence.
Please enlighten us!!
Of course!!!
No I am not a lawyer by profession, however I have some limited experience in the practising and execution of its intricacies.
Anyone so enforced, are bound, not only morally, but legally, to have their day in court, to prove or defend their case. This, the players had and enjoyed. Do not lose sight of the fact that the judge only ruled that TTFF must honour its agreement. An agreement made on their behalf by an entity not legally endowed with the power to make such decisions. The loopholes in the 'agreement' are many and so too the avenues through which to appeal. The legal reasons to appeal are also many and readily available to any experienced and talented legal mind.
JW and the TTFF will NEVER be personally liable for ANY payment. He stands on firm legal footing and will prove such. It is incumbent on the players legal counsel to prove otherwise. Perhaps a case can be made on the grounds that settlement was reached with certain players, but similarly, so can the terms of the agreement be questioned.
Again, we all know that an agreement was made. The legality of that agreement is what is in question, not whether or not it was made, even though a strong case in law can be made of the latter.
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Diamondtrim....can you explain your reasons for this statement? I am grateful that these players had their proverbial day in court, but I am steadfast that the judge was misguided in his decision and this will be proven in due course.
I don't know if you're a lawyer, but it seems to me that 2 courts in two continents have ruled in the players favour using case law and precedents. In what way was the judge misguided? And there is no right of appeal because by going to arbitration both parties waive that right and the finding is final. TTTF contested on a point of law, namely breach of confidentiality, not on the verdict. In fact, TTTF didn't even appear at the arbitration hearing to offer any defence.
Please enlighten us!!
Of course!!!
No I am not a lawyer by profession, however I have some limited experience in the practising and execution of its intricacies.
Anyone so enforced, are bound, not only morally, but legally, to have their day in court, to prove or defend their case. This, the players had and enjoyed. Do not lose sight of the fact that the judge only ruled that TTFF must honour its agreement. An agreement made on their behalf by an entity not legally endowed with the power to make such decisions. The loopholes in the 'agreement' are many and so too the avenues through which to appeal. The legal reasons to appeal are also many and readily available to any experienced and talented legal mind.
JW and the TTFF will NEVER be personally liable for ANY payment. He stands on firm legal footing and will prove such. It is incumbent on the players legal counsel to prove otherwise. Perhaps a case can be made on the grounds that settlement was reached with certain players, but similarly, so can the terms of the agreement be questioned.
Again, we all know that an agreement was made. The legality of that agreement is what is in question, not whether or not it was made, even though a strong case in law can be made of the latter.
OK, thanks for your insight. However, I feel there are some errors in your comments. When TTTF received their legal challenge, they chose to hear the case at in front of the Sport Arbitration panel in London. No one knows why they chose this option, but it was their choice. By selecting a globally recognised arbitration panel, they did so understanding this panels judgement would be upheld in any court in any country. There is no right of appeal unless there was some violation during the hearing, which TTTF have never raised. The case was referred back to the T&T High Court because AFTER the verdict a breach of confidentiality occured which neither side admitted or could prove the source (although clearly the Guardian newspaper knew the source of the leak and chose not to reveal this. This alone, made dubious proof that the leak came from TTTF as the Guardian has traditionally taken an anti-player stance)
Oliver Camps, Richard Groden and Jack Warner were listed as defendents as well as TTTF because the players lawyer foresaw a TTTF bankruptcy and wanted to ensure that the money could be chased.
When (and it will happen) the court demands a forensic audit of TTTFs books, any discrepencies will be followed up. If it is shown that money moved into any account controlled by an individual there will be charges of fraud, money laundering, deception etc. At this point, a private prosecution could be brought with fundamental evidence already ruled on by courts.
It may take time...but there is no way to escape the law, particularly when you are a public servant.
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I just curious as to how much it costs to buy a person's integrity....Anil Roberts sold his for a trip to Bahrain....ah wonder how much fellas like Yours Truly, frico, Diamondtrim et al does get??
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I get a monthly salary from a TT media outlet, you?
I just curious as to how much it costs to buy a person's integrity....Anil Roberts sold his for a trip to Bahrain....ah wonder how much fellas like Yours Truly, frico, Diamondtrim et al does get??
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I get a monthly salary from a TT media outlet, you?
I just curious as to how much it costs to buy a person's integrity....Anil Roberts sold his for a trip to Bahrain....ah wonder how much fellas like Yours Truly, frico, Diamondtrim et al does get??
Lemme guess?? The Guardian Newspaper??
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Whichever news media outlet which employs forking idiots and TTFF pretenders, is where I get my stipend....
Lemme guess?? The Guardian Newspaper??
[/quote]
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Diamondtrim....can you explain your reasons for this statement? I am grateful that these players had their proverbial day in court, but I am steadfast that the judge was misguided in his decision and this will be proven in due course.
I don't know if you're a lawyer, but it seems to me that 2 courts in two continents have ruled in the players favour using case law and precedents. In what way was the judge misguided? And there is no right of appeal because by going to arbitration both parties waive that right and the finding is final. TTTF contested on a point of law, namely breach of confidentiality, not on the verdict. In fact, TTTF didn't even appear at the arbitration hearing to offer any defence.
Please enlighten us!!
Of course!!!
No I am not a lawyer by profession, however I have some limited experience in the practising and execution of its intricacies.
Anyone so enforced, are bound, not only morally, but legally, to have their day in court, to prove or defend their case. This, the players had and enjoyed. Do not lose sight of the fact that the judge only ruled that TTFF must honour its agreement. An agreement made on their behalf by an entity not legally endowed with the power to make such decisions. The loopholes in the 'agreement' are many and so too the avenues through which to appeal. The legal reasons to appeal are also many and readily available to any experienced and talented legal mind.
JW and the TTFF will NEVER be personally liable for ANY payment. He stands on firm legal footing and will prove such. It is incumbent on the players legal counsel to prove otherwise. Perhaps a case can be made on the grounds that settlement was reached with certain players, but similarly, so can the terms of the agreement be questioned.
Again, we all know that an agreement was made. The legality of that agreement is what is in question, not whether or not it was made, even though a strong case in law can be made of the latter.
So are you saying that JW is not and never was a legal representative or act/ing on behalf of the TTFF?
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look at bacchanal going on in here
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/Mr_Muggles/GIFS/ofoy0k.gif)
Ent!?!?!
me eh know is all dis baccahnal taking place easy easy on this thread...dis forum really eh easy nah
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Whichever news media outlet which employs forking idiots and TTFF pretenders, is where I get my stipend....
Lemme guess?? The Guardian Newspaper??
[/quote]
You said it not me.... ::)
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Whichever news media outlet which employs forking idiots and TTFF pretenders, is where I get my stipend....
Lemme guess?? The Guardian Newspaper??
You said it not me.... ::)
[/quote]
Brownsugar..ah dont know if to laugh or cry....ah feel laugh go win lol
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I knew it!! You come on here pretending to share information on the goings on with the football team but you really are just another one of Jack's lapdogs!! You're a f*&%$#ng idiot!!
Quote from: YoursTruly on Today at 12:05:41 PM
I get a monthly salary from a TT media outlet, you?
Quote from: Brownsugar on Today at 11:40:05 AM
I just curious as to how much it costs to buy a person's integrity....Anil Roberts sold his for a trip to Bahrain....ah wonder how much fellas like Yours Truly, frico, Diamondtrim et al does get??
Lemme guess?? The Guardian Newspaper??
Initially, I was talking to 'waste of sperm' Bake n Shark, not you, since you butted in with the Jack's lapdog scene, then I diverted attention to you? Get it now????????????
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Diamondtrim....can you explain your reasons for this statement? I am grateful that these players had their proverbial day in court, but I am steadfast that the judge was misguided in his decision and this will be proven in due course.
I don't know if you're a lawyer, but it seems to me that 2 courts in two continents have ruled in the players favour using case law and precedents. In what way was the judge misguided? And there is no right of appeal because by going to arbitration both parties waive that right and the finding is final. TTTF contested on a point of law, namely breach of confidentiality, not on the verdict. In fact, TTTF didn't even appear at the arbitration hearing to offer any defence.
Please enlighten us!!
Of course!!!
No I am not a lawyer by profession, however I have some limited experience in the practising and execution of its intricacies.
Anyone so enforced, are bound, not only morally, but legally, to have their day in court, to prove or defend their case. This, the players had and enjoyed. Do not lose sight of the fact that the judge only ruled that TTFF must honour its agreement. An agreement made on their behalf by an entity not legally endowed with the power to make such decisions. The loopholes in the 'agreement' are many and so too the avenues through which to appeal. The legal reasons to appeal are also many and readily available to any experienced and talented legal mind.
JW and the TTFF will NEVER be personally liable for ANY payment. He stands on firm legal footing and will prove such. It is incumbent on the players legal counsel to prove otherwise. Perhaps a case can be made on the grounds that settlement was reached with certain players, but similarly, so can the terms of the agreement be questioned.
Again, we all know that an agreement was made. The legality of that agreement is what is in question, not whether or not it was made, even though a strong case in law can be made of the latter.
So are you saying that JW is not and never was a legal representative or act/ing on behalf of the TTFF?
Well that would be just plain stupid in that they settled with players from the group. If Jack wasn't "legally endowed with the power to make such decisions" then the TTFF set a bad precident by negotiating and settling a debt to players they didn't have to pay. In doing so they have affirmed Jack's power and aknowledged that an agreement had in fact been made and thus cannot use that as a recourse to recuse the federation from this debt. If he claimin to know law and he talkin that pack ah f**krey then is no wonder he holds the views he has. I don't think this fella has anything to do with Jack, I think he simply ignorant and misguided.
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look at bacchanal going on in here
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/Mr_Muggles/GIFS/ofoy0k.gif)
ENT!
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Well that would be just plain stupid in that they settled with players from the group. If Jack wasn't "legally endowed with the power to make such decisions" then the TTFF set a bad precident by negotiating and settling a debt to players they didn't have to pay. In doing so they have affirmed Jack's power and aknowledged that an agreement had in fact been made and thus cannot use that as a recourse to recuse the federation from this debt. If he claimin to know law and he talkin that pack ah f**krey then is no wonder he holds the views he has. I don't think this fella has anything to do with Jack, I think he simply ignorant and misguided.
[/quote]
Ignorance is a privilege of the young. Maturity, as its only equaliser, cannot, by very virtue of its definition, be foisted upon those in the throes of their youths. It appears that perhaps you are saddled with the former while aspiring to the latter, hence the gross lack of comprehension of both the facts and my comment.
JW is NOT LEGALLY ENDOWED WITH THE POWER TO MAKE SUCH DECISIONS. I retype in caps as I attempt to reiterate my point. I purposely did not claim that such legal bindings ensured he did not, as we all know differently. That the TTFF may have set a bad precedent....indeed, I see your point and agree.
But to again reiterate, on points of law, the potential is there for JW / TTFF to win the case.
If you require further clarification please let me know
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I knew it!! You come on here pretending to share information on the goings on with the football team but you really are just another one of Jack's lapdogs!! You're a f*&%$#ng idiot!!
Quote from: YoursTruly on Today at 12:05:41 PM
I get a monthly salary from a TT media outlet, you?
Quote from: Brownsugar on Today at 11:40:05 AM
I just curious as to how much it costs to buy a person's integrity....Anil Roberts sold his for a trip to Bahrain....ah wonder how much fellas like Yours Truly, frico, Diamondtrim et al does get??
Lemme guess?? The Guardian Newspaper??
Initially, I was talking to 'waste of sperm' Bake n Shark, not you, since you butted in with the Jack's lapdog scene, then I diverted attention to you? Get it now????????????
Steups....yuh eh serious nah.....what happen its a slow news day?? No men out there biting dogs??
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Nah the men (myself included) looking to bite felines (pussies), know how that is done?
Seems like you want an honorary doctorate in the Bake n Shark "Waste of Sperm" department - no probs, that wish is granted....
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Initially, I was talking to 'waste of sperm' Bake n Shark, not you, since you butted in with the Jack's lapdog scene, then I diverted attention to you? Get it now????????????
I bet yuh know plenty about 'waste of sperm' since yuh so busy on yuh knees ketching all Jack effusions.
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Yea I catching it for you to lick, unless your mom's nipples are more appeasing to your taste buds....
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Ignorance is a privilege of the young. Maturity, as its only equaliser, cannot, by very virtue of its definition, be foisted upon those in the throes of their youths. It appears that perhaps you are saddled with the former while aspiring to the latter, hence the gross lack of comprehension of both the facts and my comment.
JW is NOT LEGALLY ENDOWED WITH THE POWER TO MAKE SUCH DECISIONS. I retype in caps as I attempt to reiterate my point. I purposely did not claim that such legal bindings ensured he did not, as we all know differently. That the TTFF may have set a bad precedent....indeed, I see your point and agree.
But to again reiterate, on points of law, the potential is there for JW / TTFF to win the case.
If you require further clarification please let me know
Yes please elaborate... as much as I know that would be a futile waste of time.
You say you're not a lawyer yet you make such a grand pretense as to speak so conclusively on a topic with which you clearly have little familiarity. Had you any real understanding of what it is you're trying to speak about you'd realize what utter nonsense you're actually espousing... and (hopefully) as part of the cognitive process, your brain would then step in and provide filter to curb the unbridled fukkery coming off your fingertips.
There are at least two well-founded theories upon which Jack and the TTFF would both be liable. In fact the question is so settled that neither Jack nor the TTFF appealed to the high court on the issue of liability because their liability has been settled. Rather, they tried an end-run around the issue of liability to claim that through the breach they have been absolved from said liability, not on merit... but rather on some spurious claim of breach of confidentiality... which the court had no choice (if there were to be even a facade of credibility left to the institution) but to dismiss out of hand.
Since the appeal wasn't argued on the issue of liability but on breach... then that forecloses any further appeal (be it to the Court of Appeal, The Supreme Court of Judicature, or the Privy Council) on the issue of liability. At best any further appeal would be argued on the issue of the breach. I could go on and on, but there's no need to yet bog down the discussion with legal minutiae. I'll wait until you come back with your specious "elaboration" before I sink the rest of your foundering argument.
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Yea I catching it for you to lick, unless your mom's nipples are more appeasing to your taste buds....
Little boy... or girl, it still hasn't been settled... you keep trying and failing with your infantile "mother" talk. It's difficult to reconcile your anal fixation with this new maternal twist... unless you're subconsciously trying to tell us that your mother is an ass. Not knowing the unfortunate woman I'll refrain from so insulting her, and interpret it instead to mean that you came into this world via wrong orifice... which wouldn't be surprising given your scatalogical obsession.
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I will rather my mother be an ass than to be like you who got emancipated via your mom's ass!
I am little in size, but not in age, so I'll settle it now.
Better I came into this world than be like you who can't cum, so instead of 'beating out' ur woman, you're on SocaWarriors.net trying to promote an intellectual faeces vibe you were contceived wit....
Little boy... or girl, it still hasn't been settled... you keep trying and failing with your infantile "mother" talk. It's difficult to reconcile your anal fixation with this new maternal twist... unless you're subconsciously trying to tell us that your mother is an ass. Not knowing the unfortunate woman I'll refrain from so insulting her, and interpret it instead to mean that you came into this world via wrong orifice... which wouldn't be surprising given your scatalogical obsession.
[/quote]
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(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s49/Mr_Muggles/GIFS/ofoy0k.gif)
Well yes, this thread is more entertaining than that movie ah was watching yes!!
:chilling:
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I will rather my mother be an ass than to be like you who got emancipated via your mom's ass!
I am little in size, but not in age, so I'll settle it now.
Better I came into this world than be like you who can't cum, so instead of 'beating out' ur woman, you're on SocaWarriors.net trying to promote an intellectual faeces vibe you were contceived wit....
You clueless f**ktard... you can't even figure out how to use the quote feature yet here you are for two straight days on the net talking about man mother and what coming out who ass. It is painfully obvious that you have nothing of substance to add to the discussion besides your presence. I won't bother wasting any time addressing you as it would only continue to provide you platform for indulging your mat/anal obsession.
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Quote from: Zeppo on Today at 08:06:35 PM
The only World Cup that teams were invited to was the first one in 1930. The following one, in 1934, was the first one that required the teams to qualify for it. And the USA was one of the teams that qualified.
Bake n Shark is (once again) more concerned with presenting himself as the learned professor of the forum than actually getting his facts straight. But don't let him confuse you.
How someone can be so condescending and at the same time so clueless is beyond me...
Now I know why Bake n Shark cyah reply to my last thread.. oops he now did; brb....
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The intellectual Dick-tionary Bake n Shark, what does forktard means? Wanna enlighten me?
You checking how many days I'm on the net, like you're a REAL BATTY-MAN, CHI-CHI MAN, HOMOSEXUAL, to be glued to what a man is doing?
I said it in May and I'll say it in August, only men eat Bake n Shark, so I guess you're a lower Henry Street, POS night employee, how much they charge you for service btw, since I sure you have to spend money on Internet fees....
I have nothing of substance to add and you are nothing of substance, oh drats, you are.... faeces!!
Finally, I like women's booty, so I have an anal obsession, better to be obsessed on an ass than to be reproduced as one....
You clueless f**ktard... you can't even figure out how to use the quote feature yet here you are for two straight days on the net talking about man mother and what coming out who ass. It is painfully obvious that you have nothing of substance to add to the discussion besides your presence. I won't bother wasting any time addressing you as it would only continue to provide you platform for indulging your mat/anal obsession.
[/quote]
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High Court backs payments for Soca Warriors: ...TTFF ordered to honour 2006 W/Cup agreement
By Lasana Liburd
Story Updated: Aug 1, 2010 at 1:12 AM ECT
The Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) was accused of time-wasting and ordered by Acting Justice Devindra Rampersad to honour its agreement to pay bonuses to the 2006 World Cup football team, dubbed the "Soca Warriors", and legal costs, which are expected to be in excess of $3 million.
On November 19, 2008, the TTFF filed a stay of proceedings in the High Court that prevented the 16 players—since reduced to 14—from enforcing the judgment of the London-based Sport Dispute Resolution Panel (SDRP), on the grounds a supposed breach of confidentiality by the claimants "severely undermined" the defendants' faith in the SDRP and, as a result, "they no longer agree to be bound by the agreement".
The SDRP ruled on May 19, 2008, due to a contract made by United National Congress (UNC) chairman and TTFF Special Adviser Jack Warner with the players, the Warriors were owed 50 per cent of all 2006 World Cup commercial revenue and declared an immediate independent audit of the local football body's financial books for that period.
On Thursday afternoon, Justice Rampersad dismissed the TTFF's appeal and ruled in favour of the players.
"This court, therefore, finds that the breaches complained of by the defendants," stated Justice Rampersad, "did not go to the root of the arbitration agreement, and in those circumstances, the agreement remains irrevocable in accordance with Section 3 of the Trinidad and Tobago Arbitration Act 1950, which states that, 'an arbitration agreement, unless a contrary intention is expressed therein, shall be irrevocable except by leave of the court and shall have the same effect in all respects as if it had been made an order of the Court'."
The World Cup players who initially filed suit against the TTFF are Marvin Andrews, Shaka Hislop, Kelvin Jack, Atiba Charles, Cyd Gray, Ian Cox, Avery John, Brent Sancho, Chris Birchall, Aurtis Whitley, Collin Samuel, Evans Wise, Anthony Wolfe, Cornell Glen, Kenwyne Jones and Stern John. However, Andrews and Birchall are understood to have subsequently settled privately.
The remaining footballers will request an interim payment of roughly $1.8 million each—their share of the $88 million the T&TFF claimed to receive as World Cup commercial revenue—when the High Court reopens in September before auditors decide the complete figure due.
A Freedom of Information Act request in 2007 suggested the TTFF's earnings are closer to $180 million, exclusive of gate receipts and broadcast and television rights. In October 2006, the TTFF had offered the World Cup players just $5,644 each.
The SDRP ruled in favour of the players while Justice Rampersad dismissed the TTFF's case as frivolous and described the TTFF's conduct in the matter as "troubling".
"It is difficult for this court to understand the defendants' submission," stated Rampersad "…Indeed, as the claimants rightly submit, even in light of their admitted breach, the defendants have failed to advance any proof to the Court in this regard … The post-award disclosures of the award itself would not raise the mischief against which the confidentiality provisions were directed… The surrounding circumstances of the confidentiality obligation very strongly indicate just how otiose the defendants' claim to confidentiality is at this point."
The TTFF was represented in the High Court by Om Lalla, instructed by Kelvin Ramkissoon, while George Hislop—father of World Cup player and ESPN commentator Shaka Hislop—appeared for the players and was instructed by Dave De Peiza.
The players' London-based solicitor Michael Townley was elated.
"I knew we should win, but the length of time it was taking to get the judgment made it all a bit uncertain and nerve-racking," said Townley. "In the end, it was worth the wait …Now, getting paid is the next step, and we recognise that we are dealing with a party who seems determined to carry on regardless of any amount of evidence.
"Nobody forced their hand to enter in an agreement, so at what point will they seek to recognise it?"
Warner could not be reached for comment by telephone yesterday while TTFF president Oliver Camps said he would follow his lawyer's advice and make no comment on the case.
Good stuff. It was jess a matter of time people. Fyah bun all ah dem in de mafia business who try destroy what others sweat blood to build. Well done Sancho, Jack, Hislop, Lasana, Big Mag, Tallman, Patriot, Brown Sugar, Weary and de other many warrior diehards who decided from longtime that dey eh taking shite from no warrior exploiters. Nuff respect to those who had the guts to take licks for their principled stand. Keep paying attention. Is jess round one.
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I will rather my mother be an ass than to be like you who got emancipated via your mom's ass!
I am little in size, but not in age, so I'll settle it now.
Better I came into this world than be like you who can't cum, so instead of 'beating out' ur woman, you're on SocaWarriors.net trying to promote an intellectual faeces vibe you were contceived wit....
You clueless f**ktard... you can't even figure out how to use the quote feature yet here you are for two straight days on the net talking about man mother and what coming out who ass. It is painfully obvious that you have nothing of substance to add to the discussion besides your presence. I won't bother wasting any time addressing you as it would only continue to provide you platform for indulging your mat/anal obsession.
Bake, I don't think there's any use debating anything with this fella, yuh wasting yuh time.
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Source..http://www.trinidadexpress.com/sports/99814969.html
From World Cup to High Court
It was the morning of October 5, 2006 when the "Soca Warriors" finally received word on bonuses promised to them by Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) special adviser and FIFA vice-president Jack Warner--now the Minister of Works and Transport in the People's Partnership Government--for their historic qualification for the Germany World Cup.
At the Hasely Crawford Stadium in Port of Spain, the jaws of more than a dozen young men sagged and faces contorted as a contingent returned from the TTFF headquarters with news of their financial reward.
"How they came up with that?" asked one player.
One year prior, the national footballers hammered out a deal worth 30 per cent of all commercial revenue attributed to the 2006 World Cup should they be successful in their qualifying bid, but, in the following months, the TTFF proved elusive when it came to honouring its promise.
The Warriors returned from Germany to a $1 million prize apiece and Chaconia Gold Medals from the then PNM government, but there was still no word from the TTFF. By then, Warner's offer had risen to 50 per cent, although there was no mention of a dollar figure.
In October, the TTFF finally made an offer of $5,644 each and national captain and ex-Manchester United star Dwight Yorke phoned Shaka Hislop to relay the news.
"(Dwight) was talking very quickly and sounded very agitated," said Hislop, who was in the United States at the time. "His tone was one of absolute disbelief and disgust."
In the subsequent press statement read by Yorke but written by Hislop, the national players threatened to resign as their contracts with the TTFF were allegedly "not worth the paper they are printed on", although they went on to thrash St Vincent 5-1 in a friendly on October 6 and, two days later, defeated Panama 2-1.
After a second unsatisfactory TTFF offer of $19,008.07, the players hired English sport attorney Michael Townley to act as their counsel, although Yorke and veteran playmaker Russell Latapy decided against proceeding.
"I understood why they didn't want to go to court," said Hislop yesterday. "I agreed with Russell on their stance. Let us just say they had different professional and personal circumstances which I respected."
Dennis Lawrence, whose goal secured a famous World Cup qualifying playoff win against Bahrain, also declined to participate in legal action, as did Jason Scotland, Carlos Edwards and Clayton Ince.
All four players were represented by English agent Mike Berry who also worked as liaison officer for the TTFF in the build-up to the World Cup.
Caledonia AIA midfielder Densill Theobald also broke ranks.
"Densil contacted me when the TTFF pressured him and we had a long talk and I really sympathised with him," said Hislop. "I don't criticize him at all. I know what it is like to be at that age and put under pressure by the national team… He always had my utmost respect despite what others may believe."
The cracks were widening by then between players and administrators and among the Warriors themselves..Continue..http://www.trinidadexpress.com/sports/99814969.html
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Source..http://www.trinidadexpress.com/sports/99814969.html
From World Cup to High Court
It was the morning of October 5, 2006 when the "Soca Warriors" finally received word on bonuses promised to them by Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) special adviser and FIFA vice-president Jack Warner--now the Minister of Works and Transport in the People's Partnership Government--for their historic qualification for the Germany World Cup.
At the Hasely Crawford Stadium in Port of Spain, the jaws of more than a dozen young men sagged and faces contorted as a contingent returned from the TTFF headquarters with news of their financial reward.
"How they came up with that?" asked one player.
One year prior, the national footballers hammered out a deal worth 30 per cent of all commercial revenue attributed to the 2006 World Cup should they be successful in their qualifying bid, but, in the following months, the TTFF proved elusive when it came to honouring its promise.
The Warriors returned from Germany to a $1 million prize apiece and Chaconia Gold Medals from the then PNM government, but there was still no word from the TTFF. By then, Warner's offer had risen to 50 per cent, although there was no mention of a dollar figure.
In October, the TTFF finally made an offer of $5,644 each and national captain and ex-Manchester United star Dwight Yorke phoned Shaka Hislop to relay the news.
"(Dwight) was talking very quickly and sounded very agitated," said Hislop, who was in the United States at the time. "His tone was one of absolute disbelief and disgust."
In the subsequent press statement read by Yorke but written by Hislop, the national players threatened to resign as their contracts with the TTFF were allegedly "not worth the paper they are printed on", although they went on to thrash St Vincent 5-1 in a friendly on October 6 and, two days later, defeated Panama 2-1.
After a second unsatisfactory TTFF offer of $19,008.07, the players hired English sport attorney Michael Townley to act as their counsel, although Yorke and veteran playmaker Russell Latapy decided against proceeding.
"I understood why they didn't want to go to court," said Hislop yesterday. "I agreed with Russell on their stance. Let us just say they had different professional and personal circumstances which I respected."
Dennis Lawrence, whose goal secured a famous World Cup qualifying playoff win against Bahrain, also declined to participate in legal action, as did Jason Scotland, Carlos Edwards and Clayton Ince.
All four players were represented by English agent Mike Berry who also worked as liaison officer for the TTFF in the build-up to the World Cup.
Caledonia AIA midfielder Densill Theobald also broke ranks.
"Densil contacted me when the TTFF pressured him and we had a long talk and I really sympathised with him," said Hislop. "I don't criticize him at all. I know what it is like to be at that age and put under pressure by the national team… He always had my utmost respect despite what others may believe."
The cracks were widening by then between players and administrators and among the Warriors themselves..Continue..http://www.trinidadexpress.com/sports/99814969.html
Look ting!!
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Ignorance is a privilege of the young. Maturity, as its only equaliser, cannot, by very virtue of its definition, be foisted upon those in the throes of their youths. It appears that perhaps you are saddled with the former while aspiring to the latter, hence the gross lack of comprehension of both the facts and my comment.
JW is NOT LEGALLY ENDOWED WITH THE POWER TO MAKE SUCH DECISIONS. I retype in caps as I attempt to reiterate my point. I purposely did not claim that such legal bindings ensured he did not, as we all know differently. That the TTFF may have set a bad precedent....indeed, I see your point and agree.
But to again reiterate, on points of law, the potential is there for JW / TTFF to win the case.
If you require further clarification please let me know
Yes please elaborate... as much as I know that would be a futile waste of time.
You say you're not a lawyer yet you make such a grand pretense as to speak so conclusively on a topic with which you clearly have little familiarity. Had you any real understanding of what it is you're trying to speak about you'd realize what utter nonsense you're actually espousing... and (hopefully) as part of the cognitive process, your brain would then step in and provide filter to curb the unbridled f**kkery coming off your fingertips.
There are at least two well-founded theories upon which Jack and the TTFF would both be liable. In fact the question is so settled that neither Jack nor the TTFF appealed to the high court on the issue of liability because their liability has been settled. Rather, they tried an end-run around the issue of liability to claim that through the breach they have been absolved from said liability, not on merit... but rather on some spurious claim of breach of confidentiality... which the court had no choice (if there were to be even a facade of credibility left to the institution) but to dismiss out of hand.
Since the appeal wasn't argued on the issue of liability but on breach... then that forecloses any further appeal (be it to the Court of Appeal, The Supreme Court of Judicature, or the Privy Council) on the issue of liability. At best any further appeal would be argued on the issue of the breach. I could go on and on, but there's no need to yet bog down the discussion with legal minutiae. I'll wait until you come back with your specious "elaboration" before I sink the rest of your foundering argument.
I pondered a great deal before constructing this post.
Among the questions....Should I again reiterate the simple point I was making in my initial post? Do I respond to Mr Shark's inane remarks and even worse attitude as evidenced by the petty, ridiculous and downright stupid trading of insults he seems so readily prepared to dive headfirst into? Am I duty bound to enlighten those who insist, despite all effort, on wading ever deeper into the black abyss of ignorance?
Mr Bake, the point I raised, perhaps too simply for your self assumed comprehensive mind to wrap its obviously limited capacity around, is that there is potential, on points of law, for JW /TTFF to win this case. It matters not the theories, regardless of how well founded they may be. It matters not who assumed liability, nor does it matter how spurious a claim may be. You would do well to realise that this is no longer a moral case but a legal one, and as such, the legal avenues remain open through which JW / TTFF, can successfully navigate, once guided by a strong legal mind.
In one sentence you claim that no appeal is available, and the very next you suggest an 'at best' option of appeal. Mr Bake, you are as confused as you are unlettered.
The fiscal details of the agreement can be challenged on grounds of hearsay.
The legality of the agreement can be challenged on grounds of whom was so empowered to make such.
That some members of the team accepted payment, it may be argued that payment was offered and accepted, thus indicating a degree of fairness in the offer.
That some members of the team accepted payment, it may be argued that they are pursuing settlement far greater than what was promised.
That the non disclosure agreement was breached, regardless of by whom, is another point.
Granted that some of the above may be lies, half truths and shallow, it nevertheless are points that can be argued, and will be.
Mr Bake, your literary ramblings reveal a disposition of sorely misguided anger and a mind caught up in an intellectual conundrum. You must be careful when writing, as you never fail to expose your inability to grasp points.
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Good stuff. It was jess a matter of time people. Fyah bun all ah dem in de mafia business who try destroy what others sweat blood to build. Well done Sancho, Jack, Hislop, Lasana, Big Mag, Tallman, Patriot, Brown Sugar, Weary and de other many warrior diehards who decided from longtime that dey eh taking shite from no warrior exploiters. Nuff respect to those who had the guts to take licks for their principled stand. Keep paying attention. Is jess round one.
Doh forget Lasana and The Fearless One. These two men have been consistent in their attempts to bring the truth to light. Thanks Fellas!!... :notworthy: :notworthy:
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Good stuff. It was jess a matter of time people. Fyah bun all ah dem in de mafia business who try destroy what others sweat blood to build. Well done Sancho, Jack, Hislop, Lasana, Big Mag, Tallman, Patriot, Brown Sugar, Weary and de other many warrior diehards who decided from longtime that dey eh taking shite from no warrior exploiters. Nuff respect to those who had the guts to take licks for their principled stand. Keep paying attention. Is jess round one.
Doh forget Lasana and The Fearless One. These two men have been consistent in their attempts to bring the truth to light. Thanks Fellas!!... :notworthy: :notworthy:
Co-signnnnnnn
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Ignorance is a privilege of the young. Maturity, as its only equaliser, cannot, by very virtue of its definition, be foisted upon those in the throes of their youths. It appears that perhaps you are saddled with the former while aspiring to the latter, hence the gross lack of comprehension of both the facts and my comment.
JW is NOT LEGALLY ENDOWED WITH THE POWER TO MAKE SUCH DECISIONS. I retype in caps as I attempt to reiterate my point. I purposely did not claim that such legal bindings ensured he did not, as we all know differently. That the TTFF may have set a bad precedent....indeed, I see your point and agree.
But to again reiterate, on points of law, the potential is there for JW / TTFF to win the case.
If you require further clarification please let me know
Yes please elaborate... as much as I know that would be a futile waste of time.
You say you're not a lawyer yet you make such a grand pretense as to speak so conclusively on a topic with which you clearly have little familiarity. Had you any real understanding of what it is you're trying to speak about you'd realize what utter nonsense you're actually espousing... and (hopefully) as part of the cognitive process, your brain would then step in and provide filter to curb the unbridled f**kkery coming off your fingertips.
There are at least two well-founded theories upon which Jack and the TTFF would both be liable. In fact the question is so settled that neither Jack nor the TTFF appealed to the high court on the issue of liability because their liability has been settled. Rather, they tried an end-run around the issue of liability to claim that through the breach they have been absolved from said liability, not on merit... but rather on some spurious claim of breach of confidentiality... which the court had no choice (if there were to be even a facade of credibility left to the institution) but to dismiss out of hand.
Since the appeal wasn't argued on the issue of liability but on breach... then that forecloses any further appeal (be it to the Court of Appeal, The Supreme Court of Judicature, or the Privy Council) on the issue of liability. At best any further appeal would be argued on the issue of the breach. I could go on and on, but there's no need to yet bog down the discussion with legal minutiae. I'll wait until you come back with your specious "elaboration" before I sink the rest of your foundering argument.
I pondered a great deal before constructing this post.
Among the questions....Should I again reiterate the simple point I was making in my initial post? Do I respond to Mr Shark's inane remarks and even worse attitude as evidenced by the petty, ridiculous and downright stupid trading of insults he seems so readily prepared to dive headfirst into? Am I duty bound to enlighten those who insist, despite all effort, on wading ever deeper into the black abyss of ignorance?
Mr Bake, the point I raised, perhaps too simply for your self assumed comprehensive mind to wrap its obviously limited capacity around, is that there is potential, on points of law, for JW /TTFF to win this case. It matters not the theories, regardless of how well founded they may be. It matters not who assumed liability, nor does it matter how spurious a claim may be. You would do well to realise that this is no longer a moral case but a legal one, and as such, the legal avenues remain open through which JW / TTFF, can successfully navigate, once guided by a strong legal mind.
In one sentence you claim that no appeal is available, and the very next you suggest an 'at best' option of appeal. Mr Bake, you are as confused as you are unlettered.
The fiscal details of the agreement can be challenged on grounds of hearsay.
The legality of the agreement can be challenged on grounds of whom was so empowered to make such.
That some members of the team accepted payment, it may be argued that payment was offered and accepted, thus indicating a degree of fairness in the offer.
That some members of the team accepted payment, it may be argued that they are pursuing settlement far greater than what was promised.
That the non disclosure agreement was breached, regardless of by whom, is another point.
Granted that some of the above may be lies, half truths and shallow, it nevertheless are points that can be argued, and will be.
Mr Bake, your literary ramblings reveal a disposition of sorely misguided anger and a mind caught up in an intellectual conundrum. You must be careful when writing, as you never fail to expose your inability to grasp points.
As the players prepared to file suit against the sporting body in the local High Court, a FIFA Congress, which Warner attended in his capacity as FIFA vice-president, announced an amendment to its statutes on May 30, 2007 that obliged all member associations "to insert a clause in their statutes or regulations stipulating that disputes affecting the football family may not be taken to ordinary courts of law".
Warner subsequently declared that the Warriors' proposed use of the High Court could result in the country's expulsion from FIFA—a move that would ban local club and national teams from playing against teams outside their shores and kill the dreams of hundreds of local players seeking overseas jobs.
How does the above affect all the points of law (that you highlighted) that are available to JW and the TTFF? Just a simple mind trying to understand. For me if you cannot go before the courts then how are you to bring these points forward to be disputed or ruled on? Seeing that the matter was ruled on in England and upheld in T&T does that not mean that an "intellectual lawyer" cannot raise these points because the matter has surpassed these stages, or that the lawyers just not worth their salt to the TTFF? I cannot see how JW and TTFF can go back and resubmitt these arguments after all these ruling especially having failed in their attempts to discredit the players case.
Can you clarify how you think the TTFF and JW will bring these points forwards, please?
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Jack commented on the High Court's decision. Caught it on CNC 3. Cyar find the video clip yet but he say it eh over yet.....well, tell we something we eh know Jackie boy!!
And check it, earlier today the Scamps say he couldn't comment and would have to check with the Attorney on the matter, Om Lalla. But Jack who, as diamondtrim has taken great pains to point out, is Special Advisor with no say/authority in the TTFF bumping he gum.....lawd I love this place....Hollywood cyar come up with this shyte!!
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I pondered a great deal before constructing this post.
You should have 'pondered' some more because you still continue to make absolutely no sense whatsoever, and it is painfully clear that you have no grounding in the law and no footing upon which to stand.
Mr Bake, the point I raised, perhaps too simply for your self assumed comprehensive mind to wrap its obviously limited capacity around, is that there is potential, on points of law, for JW /TTFF to win this case.
Yes... yes, we know... yuh keep moving yuh lips but nothing really coming out, which is why we ask for the "elaboration" you promised.
It matters not the theories, regardless of how well founded they may be.
Actually it does indeed matter the theories. If there are potential "points of law" as you claim then it should be a simple matter to enumerate the legal theories (what you calling "points of law") upon which Jack/the TTFF can found their appeal. If you can't name these "points of law" then at least have enough candor to admit that yuh just fishing shit out of the air. Also, it matters how "well founded they may be" because if they're not well-founded at all, then again, the appeal is worthless. Anybody can claim anything in court (just ask Jack/the TTFF) it doesn't mean you'll get anywhere with the bullshit.
It matters not who assumed liability, nor does it matter how spurious a claim may be. You would do well to realise that this is no longer a moral case but a legal one, and as such, the legal avenues remain open through which JW / TTFF, can successfully navigate, once guided by a strong legal mind.
You keep making conclusory statements without any foundation to support them. WHAT are these "legal avenues"? Also, it ABSOLUTELY matters who assumed liability... that is the central issue in this dispute, "Is the TTFF liable for the monies owed to the players, resulting from the promise made by Jack Warner". The TTFF has already lost that fight with the arbitrator so they're no longer contesting that issue. A simple, yet salient point which obviously escapes your understanding. The problem with speaking French to a chinaman is that no matter how simple you construct your sentences or how dulcet your tone, it still ends up sounding Greek to him. At least you gave us fair warning that you were "not a lawyer by profession, however I have some limited experience in the practising and execution of its intricacies." Now I'm starting to realize exactly how "limited" that experience is. Maybe yuh's ah legal clerk... or maybe ah notary... perhaps like myself ah lowly "stenographer"... or maybe yuh does just lime outside de rumshop next door tuh de lawyer office. Whatever your "experience" you are lacking in any grounding in the law to even be arguing the points that you're trying to argue. It's a ruse which might work on the uneducated, but most here, even without much legal expertise can see right thru it.
In one sentence you claim that no appeal is available, and the very next you suggest an 'at best' option of appeal. Mr Bake, you are as confused as you are unlettered.
You accuse me of being "confused" yet your own confusion over a statement as simple as this betrays your ignorance. In order to make a legal argument there must be some basis in law, some guiding principle under which you bring that argument before the court. The court must first be able to properly frame your "issue" before contemplating the merits of your claim. At issue before the arbitrator (and I need not remind you here that the arbitrator's ruling is just as final and binding as a judge's or jury's in this instance) was "Whether there was a contract between the Players and the TTFF (thru the person of Jack Warner) for a 50-50 split of all revenues." The Arbitrator ruled in the affirmative. That established liability on the parts of the losing party, for payment to the prevailing party.
Immediately following that ruling the confidential terms of the decision was leaked to the Guardian (apparently by the losing party, for the prevailing party had no incentive at that point to jump the gun with the news... and no relationship, it bears noting, with the Trinidad Guardian) in apparent attempt to upset the ruling handed down by the Arbitrator. Ignoring the issue of liability (breaking it down for you... ignoring a challenge to the ruling itself, that they owed the players half), the losing party Jack and the TTFF (henceforth, just "Jack") tried a new gambit: "let's argue that the violated the terms of the arbitration, therefore the ruling has to be set aside." THIS was the basis upon which they grounded their appeal to the High Court. My statement to you, which apparently created great confusion in your feeble mind... is that by abandoning a direct challenge to the Arbitrator's ruling (again for the slow... that would be you... a challenge as to whether "Jack" is legally obligated to pay the players half), by abandoning that in favor of the "breach of confidentiality"... they are foreclosed, estopped, prevented, prohibited, barred etc... from now raising that in their appeal. The place to appeal that would have been the High Court. I then said "at best"... meaning if anything... the best they could try with the Court of Appeal is to say that the High Court's finding that there was no breach was unjust.
Even so... school ent over yet, stay with me... even so, you can't just appeal because yuh doh like de outcome. There are what are known as 'standards of appeal'. In other words, on what basis are you raising your appeal. One standard is called "plain error", which is the say that the judge's ruling is erroneous, and unsupported when one examines the facts. It is difficult to argue "plain error" because one would have to prove that testimony showed "A", while the judge took it upon himself to rule that "A" wasn't "A" but really was "B".
Another is "abuse of discretion"... which is to say that after looking at the facts, the judge didn't so much get them wrong, as much as he abused the discretion he had in ruling one way or another. This is even harder to argue because unless one can prove that the judge's decision was "arbitrary and capricious" then the reviewing panel will not disturb that decision.
A third standard of review is called "de novo" (latin for 'afresh' or 'anew'). This means that the judge mighta get the facts right but he misapplied the law or committed "legal error" in looking at those facts. In this case the appellate tribunal gets a fresh look at everything, all the testimony all the facts... everything. But to argue this is a real longshot, you have to prove that the judge clearly didn't know what he was doing... sorta you arguing these "points of law" nah.
The fiscal details of the agreement can be challenged on grounds of hearsay.
Nonsense. Stop listening tuh Law and Order and Googlepedia. Understand what "hearsay" means in the legal context before throwing it out there. The question is so silly that it defies understanding. Not even Om Lalla himself made that argument before the arbitrator nor before the High Court... what YOU with yuh "limited experience" know better than de TTFF champion lawyer?
The legality of the agreement can be challenged on grounds of whom was so empowered to make such.
Back with this jackass talk again. Under the Law of Agency, Jack Warner was an Agent of the TTFF. He negotiated for and on behalf of the TTFF on a number of things, from the original stadium deals where the TTFF paid the government for use of the Hasely Crawford Stadium, to the staging of the various Youth World Cups in TnT, to previous disputes involving players and coaches in the past. Say nothing of which, he carries the somewhat nebulous term of "Special Advisor". His role as an agent of the TTFF is undisputed.
Under the Law of Agency, liability of a Principal (the TTFF) can be created by an Agent (Jack) in several ways:
Actual authority- there's an understanding or agreement telling the agent what he is explicity authorized to do on behalf of the Principal
Inherent authority- actions the Principal should reasonably have foreseen the Agent as likely doing. Ex. You hire a contractor to paint your house knowing that you live in a row house and paint might get on yuh neighbor house. You reasonably should foresee this as happening, and do something to ensure it doesn't happen. If you don't... then yuh liable fuh de paint getting on yuh neighbor house.
Ratification- The Agent does something and the Principal by action (or failure to act) adopts the action of the Principal. You hire a contractor to put in stop lights at an intersection, and on the last three jobs he do fuh yuh he put in stoplights with only two lights, green and yellow... no red. Well guess what, any accident that happen you liable because by failing to correct or repudiate it, you 'adopt' his action, it come like yuh own.
Then we come to the most relevant... Apparent authority. By allowing the Agent to act in a certain capacity (yuh know, negotiating stadium deals, hiring and firing coaches, negotiating with players etc.) you create in the mind of the reasonable onlooker, the impression that the Agent (Jack) has the authority to act on your behalf. Again, there really is no question as to the issue of whether Jack was acting without legal authority. Om and dem ent raise it at the Arbitration because they know is not a winning argument... but apparently what you hear inside de rumshop have yuh convinced otherwise.
That some members of the team accepted payment, it may be argued that payment was offered and accepted, thus indicating a degree of fairness in the offer.
Now you just fishing talk out yuh ass. If half the team took Jack up on his instruction to go "jump off a cliff", that in of itself is no indication that such an instruction is "fair" or reasonable. Not that fair and reasonable have anything to do with anything. What you promise is what you pay. If yuh didn't think the promise was fair then don't make it.
That some members of the team accepted payment, it may be argued that they are pursuing settlement far greater than what was promised.
Lol... this bullshit. Well there really was no question as to what was promised (even though Jack tried... and quickly abandoned that route early on in the dispute). We know what was promised because there were many objective third parties (including members of the media) present when the promise was made. If some other fellas under pressure and settle for less that ent mean the others asking for 'more'.
That the non disclosure agreement was breached, regardless of by whom, is another point.
No... it is a non-point, the High Court says so. And who is responsible for the breach is controlling of the outcome of any subsequent claim. The non-breaching party will not be made to suffer for the actions of the breaching party. In this case the TTFF could not show who was responsible for the breach. Of course if they really did then that would only end up hurting them even more... since all ah we know is dem who do it.
Granted that some of the above may be lies, half truths and shallow, it nevertheless are points that can be argued, and will be.
"points that can be argued" on a messageboard, or maybe in your special parallel universe.
Mr Bake, your literary ramblings reveal a disposition of sorely misguided anger and a mind caught up in an intellectual conundrum. You must be careful when writing, as you never fail to expose your inability to grasp points.
Yes... yes Dr. Phil, I cyah read and need anger management and all that. But fuh de moment leh we try and focus on plugging de holes in this sinking ship yuh insist on sailing nd leave de pseudo-psychoanalysis fuh another day.
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Gawd... that thing long.
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Gawd... that thing long.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Jack commented on the High Court's decision. Caught it on CNC 3. Cyar find the video clip yet but he say it eh over yet.....well, tell we something we eh know Jackie boy!!
And check it, earlier today the Scamps say he couldn't comment and would have to check with the Attorney on the matter, Om Lalla. But Jack who, as diamondtrim has taken great pains to point out, is Special Advisor with no say/authority in the TTFF bumping he gum.....lawd I love this place....Hollywood cyar come up with this shyte!!
ENTTTTTTTTT
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Gawd... that thing long.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Ah juss trying tuh make sure ah cover all de bases :-[
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Just a little more clarification:
Because both parties agreed to arbitration, they lost the right to argue the case in a High Court.
The arbitrators decision is binding and irrevocable unless an appeal is made to challenge that decision.
In the absence of such a challenge, the law is clear: the arbirators decision is final and binding and the case is barred from retrial.
TTTF appealed on the basis of confidentiality and made no challenge as to the validity of the arbitrators ruling.
The T&T High Court dismissed the appeal, and upheld the original judgement
It should also be noted that it was TTTF who asked for the hearing to take place at the SDRC in London, yet they supplied no evidence in their defence, put forward no witnesses in their defence and generally failed to play an active role in the arbitration...a fact noted by Ian Mill QC in his ruling. Therefore it would be hard to now challenge the judgement in any way as they had their day in court and clearly failed to provide a defence.
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Just a little more clarification:
Because both parties agreed to arbitration, they lost the right to argue the case in a High Court.
The arbitrators decision is binding and irrevocable unless an appeal is made to challenge that decision.
In the absence of such a challenge, the law is clear: the arbirators decision is final and binding and the case is barred from retrial.
TTTF appealed on the basis of confidentiality and made no challenge as to the validity of the arbitrators ruling.
The T&T High Court dismissed the appeal, and upheld the original judgement
It should also be noted that it was TTTF who asked for the hearing to take place at the SDRC in London, yet they supplied no evidence in their defence, put forward no witnesses in their defence and generally failed to play an active role in the arbitration...a fact noted by Ian Mill QC in his ruling. Therefore it would be hard to now challenge the judgement in any way as they had their day in court and clearly failed to provide a defence.
D appeal to the Court of Appeal eh automatic. So we c if they get d appeal.
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Just a little more clarification:
Because both parties agreed to arbitration, they lost the right to argue the case in a High Court.
The arbitrators decision is binding and irrevocable unless an appeal is made to challenge that decision.
In the absence of such a challenge, the law is clear: the arbirators decision is final and binding and the case is barred from retrial.
TTTF appealed on the basis of confidentiality and made no challenge as to the validity of the arbitrators ruling.
The T&T High Court dismissed the appeal, and upheld the original judgement
It should also be noted that it was TTTF who asked for the hearing to take place at the SDRC in London, yet they supplied no evidence in their defence, put forward no witnesses in their defence and generally failed to play an active role in the arbitration...a fact noted by Ian Mill QC in his ruling. Therefore it would be hard to now challenge the judgement in any way as they had their day in court and clearly failed to provide a defence.
By agreeing to Arbitration they also waived the right to appeal the Arbitrators decision... which is why the TTFF didn't appeal the ruling but rather tried the desperate end-run around it by claiming breach. The decision is indeed binding and irrevocable as you said, but not subject to appeal.
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Jack commented on the High Court's decision. Caught it on CNC 3. Cyar find the video clip yet but he say it eh over yet.....well, tell we something we eh know Jackie boy!!
And check it, earlier today the Scamps say he couldn't comment and would have to check with the Attorney on the matter, Om Lalla. But Jack who, as diamondtrim has taken great pains to point out, is Special Advisor with no say/authority in the TTFF bumping he gum.....lawd I love this place....Hollywood cyar come up with this shyte!!
In what capacity exactly was he speaking in...Member of Parliament, Minister of works and a memeber of a Government, Fifa Vice president, or TTFF special Advisor...I'm just a bit too confused as to where he stand here..Why is Camps never making public statements...Steups.>!!
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Remember that Jack was head of the 2006 Local Organising Committee. The LOC is like a company created to oversee a project over a set period of time and appointed by a governing body...in this instance TTTF. That means that legally all decisions were his responsibility. In the real world, TTTF could place the blame squarely on Jacks shoulders and say that all monies were received by Jack and TTTF only saw the accounts that Jack prepared, thereby not knowing how much was really raised or where the missing funds went to.
It seems to me that Jack has spent his career behind the throne....vice president, special advisor, deputy prime minister and thereby having someone else to carry any blame. In this instance, there is no doubt...Jack was in charge. So logically, it is the LOC who must show their accounts and the management who must be brought to law if there are financial discrepancies. TTTF can just say "We didn't know" But that argument should still at least lead to the removal from office of any TTTF excecutives serving at that time.
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Jack commented on the High Court's decision. Caught it on CNC 3. Cyar find the video clip yet but he say it eh over yet.....well, tell we something we eh know Jackie boy!!
And check it, earlier today the Scamps say he couldn't comment and would have to check with the Attorney on the matter, Om Lalla. But Jack who, as diamondtrim has taken great pains to point out, is Special Advisor with no say/authority in the TTFF bumping he gum.....lawd I love this place....Hollywood cyar come up with this shyte!!
In what capacity exactly was he speaking in...Member of Parliament, Minister of works and a memeber of a Government, Fifa Vice president, or TTFF special Advisor...I'm just a bit too confused as to where he stand here..Why is Camps never making public statements...Steups.>!!
ALL OF D ABOVE
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Gawd... that thing long.
Definition after definition and you still COMPLETELY miss the points. So fixated are you in grammatically rambling. Save this particular post, as I will be proven correct.
BTW....you surely do not want to debate legal terms, precedents or definitions, you can trust me on that.. In law, definitions and applications can vary, and not be as steadfast as your legal dictionary explanations.
You are incorrigible. I applaud your long winded attempt to 'punch holes' in an argument that was put as simply as could have possibly been. I waste no more time with you
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Gawd... that thing long.
Definition after definition and you still COMPLETELY miss the points. So fixated are you in grammatically rambling. Save this particular post, as I will be proven correct.
BTW....you surely do not want to debate legal terms, precedents or definitions, you can trust me on that.. In law, definitions and applications can vary, and not be as steadfast as your legal dictionary explanations.
You are incorrigible. I applaud your long winded attempt to 'punch holes' in an argument that was put as simply as could have possibly been. I waste no more time with you
diamondtrim ah goh give yuh this.....yuh going down fighting boy....yuh get an A for effort. Now go spread yuh propaganda among the clueless Trinbagonians out there. We eh buying it in here.....
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Gawd... that thing long.
Definition after definition and you still COMPLETELY miss the points. So fixated are you in grammatically rambling. Save this particular post, as I will be proven correct.
BTW....you surely do not want to debate legal terms, precedents or definitions, you can trust me on that.. In law, definitions and applications can vary, and not be as steadfast as your legal dictionary explanations.
You are incorrigible. I applaud your long winded attempt to 'punch holes' in an argument that was put as simply as could have possibly been. I waste no more time with you
Explain to Bakes how he miss the point or how his definitions are wrong. I trying to follow this. Me eh know any law, but I'm ok at comprehension? So I get where bakes coming from, but you leaving your ideas short. I understand that you understand what you talking about, but I would really like to hear the other side (your side) of how this law thing can go. Please.
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Om Lalla (the lawyer for Jack/TTFF) was interviewed Power 102 this morning on Marcia's show. She asked him briefly about the case and while he couldn't say much...he said
1. When the case went to arbitration the proceedings here were stayed, not wrapped up or closed. The TTFF simply brought the case back to the local courts to be continued here after the abitrator ruled.
2. Since the case was not stopped in the local courts, there are areas the TTFF can appeal I interpret that to mean the arbitration ruling is not binding.
3. The arbitration was based on 2 things; what percentage to give the players (30% or 50%) and how much money did the TTFF receive.
4. The percentage was determined but the how much is still up in the air. He said figures are being bandied about all over the place and that is what needs clarification.
5. The matter is far from over.
We know most of this already but just thought I'd post what the rep for Darth Vader said....
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Om Lalla (the lawyer for Jack/TTFF) was interviewed Power 102 this morning on Marcia's show. She asked him briefly about the case and while he couldn't say much...he said
1. When the case went to arbitration the proceedings here were stayed, not wrapped up or closed. The TTFF simply brought the case back to the local courts to be continued here after the abitrator ruled.
2. Since the case was not stopped in the local courts, there are areas the TTFF can appeal I interpret that to mean the arbitration ruling is not binding.
3. The arbitration was based on 2 things; what percentage to give the players (30% or 50%) and how much money did the TTFF receive.
4. The percentage was determined but the how much is still up in the air. He said figures are being bandied about all over the place and that is what needs clarification.
5. The matter is far from over.
We know most of this already but just thought I'd post what the rep for Darth Vader said....
LOUUUUUUUUUDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD STEUPSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. Marcia need 2 interview d Min of Sport on d matter.
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Om Lalla (the lawyer for Jack/TTFF) was interviewed Power 102 this morning on Marcia's show. She asked him briefly about the case and while he couldn't say much...he said
1. When the case went to arbitration the proceedings here were stayed, not wrapped up or closed. The TTFF simply brought the case back to the local courts to be continued here after the abitrator ruled.
2. Since the case was not stopped in the local courts, there are areas the TTFF can appeal I interpret that to mean the arbitration ruling is not binding.
3. The arbitration was based on 2 things; what percentage to give the players (30% or 50%) and how much money did the TTFF receive.
4. The percentage was determined but the how much is still up in the air. He said figures are being bandied about all over the place and that is what needs clarification.
5. The matter is far from over.
We know most of this already but just thought I'd post what the rep for Darth Vader said....
Oh Ms Sugar.....as good a post as you may have ever posted.
Do I still need to further clarify?
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Om Lalla (the lawyer for Jack/TTFF) was interviewed Power 102 this morning on Marcia's show. She asked him briefly about the case and while he couldn't say much...he said
1. When the case went to arbitration the proceedings here were stayed, not wrapped up or closed. The TTFF simply brought the case back to the local courts to be continued here after the abitrator ruled.
2. Since the case was not stopped in the local courts, there are areas the TTFF can appeal I interpret that to mean the arbitration ruling is not binding.
3. The arbitration was based on 2 things; what percentage to give the players (30% or 50%) and how much money did the TTFF receive.
4. The percentage was determined but the how much is still up in the air. He said figures are being bandied about all over the place and that is what needs clarification.
5. The matter is far from over.
We know most of this already but just thought I'd post what the rep for Darth Vader said....
Oh Ms Sugar.....as good a post as you may have ever posted.
Do I still need to further clarify?
Oye, I eh have the time right now but I will try to find the postings some where in here or out there in cyberspace surrounding the circumstances under which the case went to arbitration. To my mind, if Jackula could have appealed the ruling of the arbitrator he would have done so directly and not use the spurious allegation of the players leaking the story to the Guardian. I'm not totally sold yet on point 1 and 2 of what Mr. Lalla said.
Yeah Weary, ah want to hear what Anil have to say, when he done quarreling with the US Embassy....
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Om Lalla (the lawyer for Jack/TTFF) was interviewed Power 102 this morning on Marcia's show. She asked him briefly about the case and while he couldn't say much...he said
1. When the case went to arbitration the proceedings here were stayed, not wrapped up or closed. The TTFF simply brought the case back to the local courts to be continued here after the abitrator ruled.
2. Since the case was not stopped in the local courts, there are areas the TTFF can appeal I interpret that to mean the arbitration ruling is not binding.
3. The arbitration was based on 2 things; what percentage to give the players (30% or 50%) and how much money did the TTFF receive.
4. The percentage was determined but the how much is still up in the air. He said figures are being bandied about all over the place and that is what needs clarification.
5. The matter is far from over.
We know most of this already but just thought I'd post what the rep for Darth Vader said....
Oh Ms Sugar.....as good a post as you may have ever posted.
Do I still need to further clarify?
Oye, I eh have the time right now but I will try to find the postings some where in here or out there in cyberspace surrounding the circumstances under which the case went to arbitration. To my mind, if Jackula could have appealed the ruling of the arbitrator he would have done so directly and not use the spurious allegation of the players leaking the story to the Guardian. I'm not totally sold yet on point 1 and 2 of what Mr. Lalla said.
Yeah Weary, ah want to hear what Anil have to say, when he done quarreling with the US Embassy....
Ms Sugar...throughout the length and breadth of this post, all I have tried to postulate is that there were points of law upon which JW / TTFF could appeal. I suggested merely that a bright legal mind would find these avenues and pursue them. My postings generated replies awash with definitions, questions on my expertise and experience in the matter, and various other nonsensical references.
I thank Mr Lalla for opening up some of our eyes.
Before any miscomprehension is had, allow me to reiterate that I am simply alluding to the avenues and possibility of an appeal, albeit a potentially successful one, and not on who is right or wrong?
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Om Lalla (the lawyer for Jack/TTFF) was interviewed Power 102 this morning on Marcia's show. She asked him briefly about the case and while he couldn't say much...he said
1. When the case went to arbitration the proceedings here were stayed, not wrapped up or closed. The TTFF simply brought the case back to the local courts to be continued here after the abitrator ruled.
2. Since the case was not stopped in the local courts, there are areas the TTFF can appeal I interpret that to mean the arbitration ruling is not binding.
3. The arbitration was based on 2 things; what percentage to give the players (30% or 50%) and how much money did the TTFF receive.
4. The percentage was determined but the how much is still up in the air. He said figures are being bandied about all over the place and that is what needs clarification.
5. The matter is far from over.
We know most of this already but just thought I'd post what the rep for Darth Vader said....
Oh Ms Sugar.....as good a post as you may have ever posted.
Do I still need to further clarify?
Oye, I eh have the time right now but I will try to find the postings some where in here or out there in cyberspace surrounding the circumstances under which the case went to arbitration. To my mind, if Jackula could have appealed the ruling of the arbitrator he would have done so directly and not use the spurious allegation of the players leaking the story to the Guardian. I'm not totally sold yet on point 1 and 2 of what Mr. Lalla said.
Yeah Weary, ah want to hear what Anil have to say, when he done quarreling with the US Embassy....
We go have a longgggggggggggggg waittttttttttttttt
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I'm fairly certain that Mr Lalla is mistaken on several counts.
1. When the case went to arbitration the proceedings here were stayed, not wrapped up or closed. The TTFF simply brought the case back to the local courts to be continued here after the abitrator ruled.
When TTFF decided to opt for arbitration, that court automatically became the ruling body and their final ruling (after any challenges) would be final and binding. The case was stayed in T&T because once the ruling was sent back by the arbitrator, it will be the High Court who act upon that ruling. There is no further evidence or appeals that are admissible
2. Since the case was not stopped in the local courts, there are areas the TTFF can appeal I interpret that to mean the arbitration ruling is not binding.
This is not true. (see above). However, when the High Court orders TTFF to produce accounts etc, there can be appeals. To clarify: The case for the players is proved. It cannot be undone. Any legal challenges, appeals etc will be aimed at the next faze i.e. production of accounts, what constitute part of the bonuses (for instance, the court will have to decide if the Adidas equipment has a monetary value and if this is taken into account)
3. The arbitration was based on 2 things; what percentage to give the players (30% or 50%) and how much money did the TTFF receive.
It has been ruled that the players are owed 50%. This is a fact. The next faze will concern the amount
4. The percentage was determined but the how much is still up in the air. He said figures are being bandied about all over the place and that is what needs clarification.
And this will depend on the co-operation of the TTFF.
5. The matter is far from over.
This is Mr Lallas attempt to confuse the public with his doublespeak.
To simplify, imagine a man runs a red light in his truck and kills a child. The first ruling will be to decide his guilt, and the role his employer played (i.e was the truck well maintained, was the driver forced to work too many hours etc). Once that has been achieved, the next stage is to decide his punishment. The third stage is to decide if he should be made to pay compensation and how much. The 4th stage is to decide if his employer is culpable or liable in any way.
TTFF have been found guilty of not paying 50% of WC income to the players.
We have yet to discover how much is owed and whether it is owed by the LOC or by TTFF.
Once the court has seen the accounts, it will decide if there has been any wrongdoings and if so, recommend to the Attorney General that a case be brought against those involved.
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So what I you are saying Football Supporter is that an appeal can be made but only in relation to the how much. So the TTFF could appeal and say what, "we doh have the accounts for that period" or "it still by the auditors" stuff like that?? Ah trying to figure how a company incorporated under the Company laws here could not produce their accounts. Ah eh goh lie, ah real curious to see what Jackula do next......
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So what I you are saying Football Supporter is that an appeal can be made but only in relation to the how much. So the TTFF could appeal and say what, "we doh have the accounts for that period" or "it still by the auditors" stuff like that?? Ah trying to figure how a company incorporated under the Company laws here could not produce their accounts. Ah eh goh lie, ah real curious to see what Jackula do next......
Thats about the size of it. TTFF have been judged to owe the players 50% of money accrued during the 2006 WC campaign. All of this money should have been collected by the LOC, which as we know, was controlled by Jack. Therefore, TTFF claiming bankruptcy is really not important as they should have received profits AFTER the players were paid.
It depends how the court will view the shenanigans of Jack and TTFF. I believe that technically any money that should have been paid to the players can be ordered to be recalled.
Its a bit like if your bank put $1,000 of someones money into your account. Its not your fault, but it ain't your money so you have to give it back. Saying that you have spent it, is no defence. It was your responsibility to check your account and to realise the money wasn't yours. In effect, you've stolen that money.
So if TTFF say they didn't realise all these millions were not theirs, the court will say that they should have checked the accounts and any outstanding debts owed by LOC, because LOC was an appointed agent of TTFF. Meanwhile, Jack is the person at LOC responsible for owing the money to the players. He was in charge and if mistakes were made (i.e. money incorrectly spent) he has to carry the burden of responsibility.
Lalla can argue what he likes, but the High Court have already recognised that TTFF have been delaying the case where possible and acting "mischievously".
The process is simple: provide accounts of money received. If these accounts seem incorrect, the Court can order businesses to reveal how much they paid to the LOC. (Remember, they have a govt testimony that was not challenged in arbitration by TTFF that the LOC accrued around $180 million) If TTFF have lied, this could, on its own amount to a custodial sentance for those committing purjory. But also, there are penalties for false accounting, money laundering and fraud.
The question is: will TTFF risk breaking the law and will the High Court threaten the Deputy Prime Minister with prison?
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The question is: will TTFF risk breaking the law and will the High Court threaten the Deputy Prime Minister with prison?
How soon you reckon before we get to this stage because I cyah wait!! 8)
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The loopholes in the 'agreement' are many and so too the avenues through which to appeal. The legal reasons to appeal are also many and readily available to any experienced and talented legal mind.
But to again reiterate, on points of law, the potential is there for JW / TTFF to win the case.
Mr Bake, the point I raised... is that there is potential, on points of law, for JW /TTFF to win this case.
Ms Sugar...throughout the length and breadth of this post, all I have tried to postulate is that there were points of law upon which JW / TTFF could appeal. I suggested merely that a bright legal mind would find these avenues and pursue them.
Before any miscomprehension is had, allow me to reiterate that I am simply alluding to the avenues and possibility of an appeal, albeit a potentially successful one, and not on who is right or wrong?
Yuh starting tuh sound like a parrot... better yet, ah puppet merely mimicking words. In fact ah bet if we look closely we go see Jack have he hand up yuh bamsee manipulating yuh lips. All yuh doing fuh de past couple days in repeating the same mantra about how much ways it have fuh dem to appeal. Man break it down fuh yuh and show yuh how yuh wrong, yuh respond how they only hitting yuh with "definitions". That and ah setta empty gun talk about doh test yuh on "legal terms, precedents and definitions"... which itself have no meaning. You just cutting and pasting words in hopes that it make yuh sound like yuh know what yuh talking about.
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Doh let Om Lalla tie up allyuh head... he chatting pure fart dey.
1. When the case went to arbitration the proceedings here were stayed, not wrapped up or closed. The TTFF simply brought the case back to the local courts to be continued here after the abitrator ruled.
Nonsense.
"The Associations shall insert a clause in their statutes or regulations, stipulating that it is prohibited to take disputes in the Association or disputes affecting Leagues, members of Leagues, clubs, members of clubs, Players, Officials and other Association Officials to ordinary courts of law, unless the FIFA regulations or binding legal provisions specifically provide for or stipulate recourse to ordinary courts of law. Instead of recourse to ordinary courts of law, provision shall be made for arbitration. Such disputes shall be taken to an independent and duly constituted arbitration tribunal recognised under the rules of the Association or Confederation or to CAS. The Associations shall also ensure that this stipulation is implemented in the Association, if necessary by imposing a binding obligation on its members. The Associations shall impose sanctions on any party that fails to respect this obligation and ensure that any appeal against such sanctions shall likewise be strictly submitted to arbitration, and not to ordinary courts of law."
-FIFA Statutes, Article 64 (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/01/09/75/14/fifa_statutes_072008_en.pdf) There are 78 pages, scroll to p.45.
2. Since the case was not stopped in the local courts, there are areas the TTFF can appeal I interpret that to mean the arbitration ruling is not binding.
They are prevented from filing in an ordinary court of law per FIFA Statutes, Article 64. Any arbitration ruling is to have binding effect on all members and cannot be appealed. Anyone violating this is to be sanctioned. Only such sanction can be appealed, not the underlying arbitration decision. Even so, appeals of any sanction again must go thru arbitration.
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People probably wondering what is the big deal with Arbitration and why FIFA insisting on it so much. FIFA is a tyrant organization and doesn't want to be held answerable to no government, or no court of law. Judicial decisions handed down in a court of law has precedential effect (at least in common law countries; civil law countries have a different system). Precedential effect means that if a later dispute between other parties arises, all the court has to do is find a decision already on the books similar to the issue being deliberated, point to that decision and the matter is resolved.
Arbitration rulings do not have precedential effect.... they are binding only on the parties to the particular ruling. So in this case, on the issue as to whether Jack with his promise created a binding contract with the players... as settled by the arbitrator here, that only binds Jack/TTFF and the players to the outcome of that ruling. It tomorrow, Sunil Gulati make a promise to the US players and then try to renege like Jack did, the US players can't point to this ruling and say "see, the SDRP done rule this is a contract in that case with the TTFF and the Players." That argument will go nowhere. If this ruling came thru a court it would be a different matter.
3. The arbitration was based on 2 things; what percentage to give the players (30% or 50%) and how much money did the TTFF receive.
The first thing Jack and dem contested was whether there was a contract at all. and IF there was one, how much was owed.
4. The percentage was determined but the how much is still up in the air. He said figures are being bandied about all over the place and that is what needs clarification.
First thing that he said correct... "how much" could only be determined by a forensic examination of the TTFF accounts for the controverted period.
5. The matter is far from over.
Not necessarily... you could stick a fork in this thing. The TTFF will only try a setta procedural stalling tactics, but from a legal standpoint they have nutten to stand up on.
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hhhhhhmmm Bakes :thinking:.....ah follow yuh.....ah just waiting to see exactly what it is Jackie boy/TTFF going and come up with next....
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hhhhhhmmm Bakes :thinking:.....ah follow yuh.....ah just waiting to see exactly what it is Jackie boy/TTFF going and come up with next....
Indeed... any celebration would be premature. Jack's biggest advantage is that he have the weight of the government on his side now and will use that to his benefit. No different to how Ish and Steve using Anand to their advantage to stall.
One thing I forgot to mention about Om... to show how he's ah blasted liar:
1. When the case went to arbitration the proceedings here were stayed, not wrapped up or closed. The TTFF simply brought the case back to the local courts to be continued here after the abitrator ruled.
Om say they start de High Court proceedings here... put it on de shelf to go to Arbitration... di'n agree with the Arbitrator's ruling so they bring it back here. As pointed out earlier, they cannot file in a regular court unless FIFA gives them the okay to.
Secondly, the issue they took to Arbitration isn't the same one being raised in the High Court. They went to arbitration arguing if it had a contract to begin with; and if so, what percentage of profits must be shared.
They came back to the High Courts with their breach of confidentiality claim. The breach issue is different from the "is there a contrac/how much issue". Obviously there can't be a breach if there was no contract. So how you go say yuh bringing back the mattter (the breach claim) to the local courts... allyuh was arguing breach before allyuh went to SDRP arguing 'contract'?
Om only Trying tuh tief people head with that setta ole noise.
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The loopholes in the 'agreement' are many and so too the avenues through which to appeal. The legal reasons to appeal are also many and readily available to any experienced and talented legal mind.
But to again reiterate, on points of law, the potential is there for JW / TTFF to win the case.
Mr Bake, the point I raised... is that there is potential, on points of law, for JW /TTFF to win this case.
Ms Sugar...throughout the length and breadth of this post, all I have tried to postulate is that there were points of law upon which JW / TTFF could appeal. I suggested merely that a bright legal mind would find these avenues and pursue them.
Before any miscomprehension is had, allow me to reiterate that I am simply alluding to the avenues and possibility of an appeal, albeit a potentially successful one, and not on who is right or wrong?
Yuh starting tuh sound like a parrot... better yet, ah puppet merely mimicking words. In fact ah bet if we look closely we go see Jack have he hand up yuh bamsee manipulating yuh lips. All yuh doing fuh de past couple days in repeating the same mantra about how much ways it have fuh dem to appeal. Man break it down fuh yuh and show yuh how yuh wrong, yuh respond how they only hitting yuh with "definitions". That and ah setta empty gun talk about doh test yuh on "legal terms, precedents and definitions"... which itself have no meaning. You just cutting and pasting words in hopes that it make yuh sound like yuh know what yuh talking about.
And again you miss the point....even more completely than I thought possible.
I understand, though have no experience with, the sunken feeling that presents itself when one is proven wrong.
Cheers
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And again you miss the point....even more completely than I thought possible.
I understand, though have no experience with, the sunken feeling that presents itself when one is proven wrong.
Cheers
Aye, Emperor go and put on some clothes... yuh nanny starting tuh show.
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hhhhhhmmm Bakes :thinking:.....ah follow yuh.....ah just waiting to see exactly what it is Jackie boy/TTFF going and come up with next....
Ms Sugar....FIFA law and a country's law differ greatly.
At the risk of going against my alleged godfather, ;), this matter is being fought dually, i.e. what local courts won't give, Fifa law would. Conversely, what local courts would give, Fifa law would prevent.
When JW/TTFF can appeal to a court of law they would.....pretty much what is going to happen here. If they lose in a court of law, they will turn to Fifa statutes to claim that any dispute ought not to have been taken to a court of law.
All scenarios lead to our football decaying even further.
The players WILL get money. But they will get no more than what was offered. The LOC accounts can be audited, but JW is the chairman of the LOC and for all intents and purposes submits the budget to himself (in his capacity of Fifa finance committee deputy) for approval. If JW wants the budget to show $10, or $1000, it will.
Any victory for the players will be pyrrhic on many levels. A victory for JW/TTFF will be devastating for future players.
Six million ways to die.....
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hhhhhhmmm Bakes :thinking:.....ah follow yuh.....ah just waiting to see exactly what it is Jackie boy/TTFF going and come up with next....
Ms Sugar....FIFA law and a country's law differ greatly.
At the risk of going against my alleged godfather, ;), this matter is being fought dually, i.e. what local courts won't give, Fifa law would. Conversely, what local courts would give, Fifa law would prevent.
When JW/TTFF can appeal to a court of law they would.....pretty much what is going to happen here. If they lose in a court of law, they will turn to Fifa statutes to claim that any dispute ought not to have been taken to a court of law.
All scenarios lead to our football decaying even further.
The players WILL get money. But they will get no more than what was offered. The LOC accounts can be audited, but JW is the chairman of the LOC and for all intents and purposes submits the budget to himself (in his capacity of Fifa finance committee deputy) for approval. If JW wants the budget to show $10, or $1000, it will.
Any victory for the players will be pyrrhic on many levels. A victory for JW/TTFF will be devastating for future players.
Six million ways to die.....
So wait.
So you acknowledge the fact that Jack could manipulate the figures to his benefit but see nothing wrong with that? Is over 180 million income was received for that campaign. Add to that FIFA paid the travelling expenses, lodgings and gave every federation 25 Million US for qualification. So what expenses coulda really be accrued by the Federation or the LOC in all this that could eradicate 180 million dollars?
Come nah man.
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Bakes, thank you for the simplistic breakdown of the proceedings. That's all I was asking Diamondtrim for, but he refuse to do this. Again thanks.
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hhhhhhmmm Bakes :thinking:.....ah follow yuh.....ah just waiting to see exactly what it is Jackie boy/TTFF going and come up with next....
Ms Sugar....FIFA law and a country's law differ greatly.
At the risk of going against my alleged godfather, ;), this matter is being fought dually, i.e. what local courts won't give, Fifa law would. Conversely, what local courts would give, Fifa law would prevent.
When JW/TTFF can appeal to a court of law they would.....pretty much what is going to happen here. If they lose in a court of law, they will turn to Fifa statutes to claim that any dispute ought not to have been taken to a court of law.
All scenarios lead to our football decaying even further.
The players WILL get money. But they will get no more than what was offered. The LOC accounts can be audited, but JW is the chairman of the LOC and for all intents and purposes submits the budget to himself (in his capacity of Fifa finance committee deputy) for approval. If JW wants the budget to show $10, or $1000, it will.
Any victory for the players will be pyrrhic on many levels. A victory for JW/TTFF will be devastating for future players.
Six million ways to die.....
So wait.
So you acknowledge the fact that Jack could manipulate the figures to his benefit but see nothing wrong with that? Is over 180 million income was received for that campaign. Add to that FIFA paid the travelling expenses, lodgings and gave every federation 25 Million US for qualification. So what expenses coulda really be accrued by the Federation or the LOC in all this that could eradicate 180 million dollars?
Come nah man.
Yes...I acknowledge this, and furthermore I applaud it.
I do not however, approve of it.
Do not doubt for a second that 180 million cannot be accounted for. How? I honestly do not know, but it can and will be accounted for
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Bakes, thank you for the simplistic breakdown of the proceedings. That's all I was asking Diamondtrim for, but he refuse to do this. Again thanks.
Yuh welcome, no scenes... I just sharing my understanding of what the process and governing legal principles are. The court could still pull ah ninja move in the end fuh all we know. Everybody was ready tuh ship OJ off tuh San Quentin until Johnnie sprinkle magic dust on de leather gloves and bazodee de jury.
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hhhhhhmmm Bakes :thinking:.....ah follow yuh.....ah just waiting to see exactly what it is Jackie boy/TTFF going and come up with next....
Ms Sugar....FIFA law and a country's law differ greatly.
At the risk of going against my alleged godfather, ;), this matter is being fought dually, i.e. what local courts won't give, Fifa law would. Conversely, what local courts would give, Fifa law would prevent.
When JW/TTFF can appeal to a court of law they would.....pretty much what is going to happen here. If they lose in a court of law, they will turn to Fifa statutes to claim that any dispute ought not to have been taken to a court of law.
All scenarios lead to our football decaying even further.
The players WILL get money. But they will get no more than what was offered. The LOC accounts can be audited, but JW is the chairman of the LOC and for all intents and purposes submits the budget to himself (in his capacity of Fifa finance committee deputy) for approval. If JW wants the budget to show $10, or $1000, it will.
Any victory for the players will be pyrrhic on many levels. A victory for JW/TTFF will be devastating for future players.
Six million ways to die.....
So wait.
So you acknowledge the fact that Jack could manipulate the figures to his benefit but see nothing wrong with that? Is over 180 million income was received for that campaign. Add to that FIFA paid the travelling expenses, lodgings and gave every federation 25 Million US for qualification. So what expenses coulda really be accrued by the Federation or the LOC in all this that could eradicate 180 million dollars?
Come nah man.
Yes...I acknowledge this, and furthermore I applaud it.
I do not however, approve of it.
Do not doubt for a second that 180 million cannot be accounted for. How? I honestly do not know, but it can and will be accounted for
Yuh acknowledge..and furthermore applaud.....buh doh approve.
:-\
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Explain de sense in that statement.
And IF it is made clear that funds amounting to 180 million was indeed received by ANY party be it de TTFF or de LOC......then the question hadda be where did it go.
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hhhhhhmmm Bakes :thinking:.....ah follow yuh.....ah just waiting to see exactly what it is Jackie boy/TTFF going and come up with next....
Ms Sugar....FIFA law and a country's law differ greatly.
At the risk of going against my alleged godfather, ;), this matter is being fought dually, i.e. what local courts won't give, Fifa law would. Conversely, what local courts would give, Fifa law would prevent.
When JW/TTFF can appeal to a court of law they would.....pretty much what is going to happen here. If they lose in a court of law, they will turn to Fifa statutes to claim that any dispute ought not to have been taken to a court of law.
All scenarios lead to our football decaying even further.
The players WILL get money. But they will get no more than what was offered. The LOC accounts can be audited, but JW is the chairman of the LOC and for all intents and purposes submits the budget to himself (in his capacity of Fifa finance committee deputy) for approval. If JW wants the budget to show $10, or $1000, it will.
Any victory for the players will be pyrrhic on many levels. A victory for JW/TTFF will be devastating for future players.
Six million ways to die.....
So wait.
So you acknowledge the fact that Jack could manipulate the figures to his benefit but see nothing wrong with that? Is over 180 million income was received for that campaign. Add to that FIFA paid the travelling expenses, lodgings and gave every federation 25 Million US for qualification. So what expenses coulda really be accrued by the Federation or the LOC in all this that could eradicate 180 million dollars?
Come nah man.
Yes...I acknowledge this, and furthermore I applaud it.
I do not however, approve of it.
Do not doubt for a second that 180 million cannot be accounted for. How? I honestly do not know, but it can and will be accounted for
Yuh acknowledge..and furthermore applaud.....buh doh approve.
:-\
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..............
......................
Explain de sense in that statement.
And IF it is made clear that funds amounting to 180 million was indeed received by ANY party be it de TTFF or de LOC......then the question hadda be where did it go.
A fair enough question.....
As a young lad growing up, my grandmother used to repeat the mantra 'if yuh have a jackass, beat it until it dead'.
It is within JW's power to do as he wishes with the money allocated to Trinidad and Tobago football regardless of by whom. If he is allowed to continue to do this uninhibited, then, by his moral law, he must continue to do so. As wrong as it may be, objectively speaking, I do not fault him. In fact I applaud him.
If, as a married man, you carry on extra marital affairs with the knowledge of your wife who says nothing, then you may be less inclined to cease. It is the fear of being caught while in acts of wrong-doing that prevents the majority of us from doing just that. An infraction that has no consequence is bound to repeat itself, and ought to repeat itself.
As for the other question....a similarly fair one, its not a question of where the money went, rather one of where it can be proven to have gone. We have all heard JW claim exhorbitant expenses for team tours, preparations, facility rental etc. As far fetched or ridiculous as any potential explanation may be, a court cannot refute documentiary evidence of JW paying 95 million for a set of socks and 85 million for a set of pants.
Personal story:
A vehicle was recently purchased for $1 and sold back to the original owner for $90,000, as a means of having to exclude the asset from a list filed with the integrity commission. Not a cent passed, but all receipts are present.
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A fair enough question.....
As a young lad growing up, my grandmother used to repeat the mantra 'if yuh have a jackass, beat it until it dead'.
It is within JW's power to do as he wishes with the money allocated to Trinidad and Tobago football regardless of by whom. If he is allowed to continue to do this uninhibited, then, by his moral law, he must continue to do so. As wrong as it may be, objectively speaking, I do not fault him. In fact I applaud him.
I read this part and cyar go no further......I eh know which emotion applicable..... :rotfl: or :'( or >:( or :o or ??? or :cursing: or :frustrated: or :busshead: or :banginghead:
Hear nah all yuh fellas good yes. I hear that kinda dotishness from my cousin and another friend of mine already and ah guess yuh is just another one of that ilk.....I goh just sit back from now on and enjoy the entertainment yuh providing.....Hollywood really cyar compete nah.....
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The question is: will TTFF risk breaking the law and will the High Court threaten the Deputy Prime Minister with prison?
How soon you reckon before we get to this stage because I cyah wait!! 8)
Dis will happen right after Ish and dem get extradited. This govt pussin footin wit a request from d US to extradite dem fellas so u tink JW fraid 2 not pay a 4 yr debt. D moral victory is what we have 2 b thankful 4 at d moment. D receipt of the money if u can figure dat out then u can win d next lotto.
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A fair enough question.....
As a young lad growing up, my grandmother used to repeat the mantra 'if yuh have a jackass, beat it until it dead'.
It is within JW's power to do as he wishes with the money allocated to Trinidad and Tobago football regardless of by whom. If he is allowed to continue to do this uninhibited, then, by his moral law, he must continue to do so. As wrong as it may be, objectively speaking, I do not fault him. In fact I applaud him.
I read this part and cyar go no further......I eh know which emotion applicable..... :rotfl: or :'( or >:( or :o or ??? or :cursing: or :frustrated: or :busshead: or :banginghead:
Hear nah all yuh fellas good yes. I hear that kinda dotishness from my cousin and another friend of mine already and ah guess yuh is just another one of that ilk.....I goh just sit back from now on and enjoy the entertainment yuh providing.....Hollywood really cyar compete nah.....
(http://www.hahaha.com/en/IMG/arton5501.jpg)
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Dis self definition of morality dat people and certain religions does want to push just appearing more and more dotish to me.
Buh......all things considered...i sure Jackula eh see heself as doing nothing wrong. It fits in with a lot.
Unfortunately Jack moral code cyar extend to anybody else but heself...and certainly not to the law of the land.
Lets see how it goes
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just saw Jack Warner on local tv SAYING .. it eh over yet ! so hold de celebrations folks ...it eh over til Jack says so ..or til de FIFA vice President says so ..or the Minister of Works say so .... what amuses me is dat Jack slipped out of the country just before de floods came ..and not one reporter asked where de Minister of works was !
Even de talk show host dat was calling for President Max to return from vacation when members of de integrity commission resigned ...( now a Minister ) eh saying dat de minister of works shuda lef where he went and come back immediately ! So dis makes me feel dat Jack has now purchased some real estate located just over 7 miles from de coast of Venezuela !
So I eh seeing dat dem fellas go get one cent more than what Jack said they would get !..and de news media eh go notice :devil:
is a rainy night in Georgia ah tellin allyuh ...... High court could say what dey want ...dis is Jack country ...jack in trinidad and Jack in Tobago !and all who vex ..lorse !
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just saw Jack Warner on local tv SAYING .. it eh over yet ! so hold de celebrations folks ...it eh over til Jack says so ..or til de FIFA vice President says so ..or the Minister of Works say so ....
......or the "Special Advisor" to the TTFF or the President of CONCACAF (he still holding down that right?), or part time PM ::) ::)
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so it seem like FIFA was not named in the suit. can FIFA pull the plug on TTTF and give them an out from paying de players? ???
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I have a question re FIFA's role in all this.
I hearing it being said that FIFA prevents national associations from taking disputes to the High Courts and as such the TTFF cannot take the case back to the High Court. But to me thats exactly what they went ahead and did after losing arbitration, and that ship done sail.
The FIFA rule was contravened, and the penalty for that is probably anything from a fine to a ban from international football.
But what do the FIFA's statutes have to do with the law in a country? FIFA can't block anyone from taking anything to the High Court in a national jurisdiction, they can only levy punishment on the football association or the players within the realm of football and FIFA sanctioned events. Which means that they can ban the TTFF and Trinidad from participating in FIFA tournaments at all levels if they see fit. But does FIFA really have any input in so far as the legal proceedings go?
I glad to see the players getting their vindication in the court of law, but this is far from over.
The only thing for certain is that T&T football have some hard times ahead. Bet yuh bottom dollar, if Jack go down he taking everybody down with him.
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I have a question re FIFA's role in all this.
I hearing it being said that FIFA prevents national associations from taking disputes to the High Courts and as such the TTFF cannot take the case back to the High Court. But to me thats exactly what they went ahead and did after losing arbitration, and that ship done sail.
The FIFA rule was contravened, and the penalty for that is probably anything from a fine to a ban from international football.
But what do the FIFA's statutes have to do with the law in a country? FIFA can't block anyone from taking anything to the High Court in a national jurisdiction, they can only levy punishment on the football association or the players within the realm of football and FIFA sanctioned events. Which means that they can ban the TTFF and Trinidad from participating in FIFA tournaments at all levels if they see fit. But does FIFA really have any input in so far as the legal proceedings go?
I glad to see the players getting their vindication in the court of law, but this is far from over.
The only thing for certain is that T&T football have some hard times ahead. Bet yuh bottom dollar, if Jack go down he taking everybody down with him.
I will take that chance.
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d Hot Topic (Soca Warriors win - Vindication?) on Sports Edition in d morning will feature 'a Soca Warrior' an a 'journalistic warrior' host Joel Villafana said. he didnt give names but i cud only guess it will be brent sancho an lasana liburd ???
hopefully i remember to tune een in d mornin
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d Hot Topic (Soca Warriors win - Vindication?) on Sports Edition in d morning will feature 'a Soca Warrior' an a 'journalistic warrior' host Joel Villafana said. he didnt give names but i cud only guess it will be brent sancho an lasana liburd ???
hopefully i remember to tune een in d mornin
Is Brent Sancho and we own Brownsugar. So peeps set yuh clock I done set mines.
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d Hot Topic (Soca Warriors win - Vindication?) on Sports Edition in d morning will feature 'a Soca Warrior' an a 'journalistic warrior' host Joel Villafana said. he didnt give names but i cud only guess it will be brent sancho an lasana liburd ???
hopefully i remember to tune een in d mornin
Is Brent Sancho and we own Brownsugar. So peeps set yuh clock I done set mines.
:applause:
yes brownsugar, represent muh girl
aye diamondtrim, yours truly!! set allyuh clock!! tune een an get get d FACTS.
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Between 6 and 8 am on August 6, I'll be watching the first morning of the second Test between England and Australia at Edgbaston, England, for your information....
I'll also be listening to the Boom 94.1FM, with Sunny Bling, Third Bass and Magnificent Sounds, for your information.....
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d Hot Topic (Soca Warriors win - Vindication?) on Sports Edition in d morning will feature 'a Soca Warrior' an a 'journalistic warrior' host Joel Villafana said. he didnt give names but i cud only guess it will be brent sancho an lasana liburd ???
hopefully i remember to tune een in d mornin
Is Brent Sancho and we own Brownsugar. So peeps set yuh clock I done set mines.
:applause:
yes brownsugar, represent muh girl
aye diamondtrim, yours truly!! set allyuh clock!! tune een an get get d FACTS.
We will get 'facts' from one side....but I'll definitely love to watch.
What time is it?
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d Hot Topic (Soca Warriors win - Vindication?) on Sports Edition in d morning will feature 'a Soca Warrior' an a 'journalistic warrior' host Joel Villafana said. he didnt give names but i cud only guess it will be brent sancho an lasana liburd ???
hopefully i remember to tune een in d mornin
Is Brent Sancho and we own Brownsugar. So peeps set yuh clock I done set mines.
:applause:
yes brownsugar, represent muh girl
aye diamondtrim, yours truly!! set allyuh clock!! tune een an get get d FACTS.
We will get 'facts' from one side....but I'll definitely love to watch.
What time is it?
Well since uh peeps in d TTFF DOES LIEEEEEEEEE u know like sayin eveybody but 5 players take d peanuts I mean money we eh really need 2 hear dem.
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d Hot Topic (Soca Warriors win - Vindication?) on Sports Edition in d morning will feature 'a Soca Warrior' an a 'journalistic warrior' host Joel Villafana said. he didnt give names but i cud only guess it will be brent sancho an lasana liburd ???
hopefully i remember to tune een in d mornin
Is Brent Sancho and we own Brownsugar. So peeps set yuh clock I done set mines.
:applause:
yes brownsugar, represent muh girl
aye diamondtrim, yours truly!! set allyuh clock!! tune een an get get d FACTS.
girl I going in mih bed now.....must get mih beauty sleep in.... ;D
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so it seem like FIFA was not named in the suit. can FIFA pull the plug on TTTF and give them an out from paying de players? ???
Why would FIFA be named in the suit... did FIFA make any promises to the players that it then didn't keep? How would FIFA pulling "the plug" give the TTFF release from adjudicated liability?
I have a question re FIFA's role in all this.
I hearing it being said that FIFA prevents national associations from taking disputes to the High Courts and as such the TTFF cannot take the case back to the High Court. But to me thats exactly what they went ahead and did after losing arbitration, and that ship done sail.
Nothing is "being said"... there's a reason why I posted the link to the FIFA Statutes, Article 64 itself, rather than just coming here and saying what it says. Everybody free to check it out themselves. I even provided a shortcut by posting the relevant language and telling you where it can be found. Read it for yourself and see if you can come up with a different interpretation from what yuh "hearing it being said."
The proper question to ask is whether FIFA will now do what it supposed to do and sanction the TTFF/Jack Warner for circumventing it's process.
The FIFA rule was contravened, and the penalty for that is probably anything from a fine to a ban from international football. But what do the FIFA's statutes have to do with the law in a country? FIFA can't block anyone from taking anything to the High Court in a national jurisdiction, they can only levy punishment on the football association or the players within the realm of football and FIFA sanctioned events. Which means that they can ban the TTFF and Trinidad from participating in FIFA tournaments at all levels if they see fit. But does FIFA really have any input in so far as the legal proceedings go?
Of course they do... indirectly. By stipulating that all disputes are to be resolved via arbitration they are in fact creating a penalty for pursuing the matter in court. They can do this... in fact this kind of dispute resolution provision can be found in many contracts... people just don't bother to read the find print. Take yuh credit/debit card Terms of Agreement and see what it says... I can almost guarantee you that it mandates arbitration over litigation. The difference is that most countries' law prevents such terms of adhesion where a party with all the power can't bind another to terms that aren't really up for negotiation. With FIFA that's different... it's a membership organization and can tell you how many hoops you have to jump thru if you want to be part of the club... including mandatory arbitration.
A contract is a contract and FIFA members are bound by the terms stipulated by the organization... courts will respect and honor those agreements to the extent that justice requires it. Which is to say, if you want to get out from under that arbitration provision that you willfully agreed to, you better come damn good with yuh story.
I glad to see the players getting their vindication in the court of law, but this is far from over.
The only thing for certain is that T&T football have some hard times ahead. Bet yuh bottom dollar, if Jack go down he taking everybody down with him.
Everybody saying this "far from over" but nobody eh saying why that is the case. As I said, all Jack have now is he pardners in government to help him stall but this case eh likely to see the inside of another courtroom again. I'd be really surprised if the Court of Appeals grants certiorari to hear this appeal.
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OK mix up Brownsugar not on but at least she get some good news Sancho say they not sure that ME MUM take any money. So tings lookin up 4 her.
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d Hot Topic (Soca Warriors win - Vindication?) on Sports Edition in d morning will feature 'a Soca Warrior' an a 'journalistic warrior' host Joel Villafana said. he didnt give names but i cud only guess it will be brent sancho an lasana liburd ???
hopefully i remember to tune een in d mornin
did they touch on the topic ??
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d Hot Topic (Soca Warriors win - Vindication?) on Sports Edition in d morning will feature 'a Soca Warrior' an a 'journalistic warrior' host Joel Villafana said. he didnt give names but i cud only guess it will be brent sancho an lasana liburd ???
hopefully i remember to tune een in d mornin
did they touch on the topic ??
D judgement say dat d TTFF need 2 produce d books by aug 30th so by sep 23rd d players should know what money dey gettin. So expect ttff bankruptcy proceedings any day now. Betta yet d AG go ask a QC in d UK 4 ADVICE 2 give he cabinet colleague.
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OK mix up Brownsugar not on but at least she get some good news Sancho say they not sure that ME MUM take any money. So tings lookin up 4 her.
Ah want ME MUM to come on here and post for heself that he eh take no money....until then....I vex wid him >:( :cursing: :cursing:....there Palos I said it.......and no ah still eh want to hear yuh.... ;D
On a related note, as Sancho was wrapping up he said that if we read the judgement handed down there are no grounds for appeal in the matter.....
Bakes, people saying it eh over cuz is Jack. We really, really, really want it to be over but is Jack.......
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It doesn't matter if TTFF goes bankrupt....it was the LOC who collected and dispersed the money. They will have to produce accounts. If the money reached TTFF, then it will be the Federation, but methinks the money didn't go to TTFF. The man ultimately responsible for the LOC accounts is Jack Warner. He cannot blame accountants, other members of LOC, etc because he is ultimately responsible for the actions of the LOC. He can't say that the accounts showed 18 million and he didn't know there was more money.
Now, TTFF said the accounts showed an income of 18 million. The govt say they received 188 million. Theres no way that TTFF spent 170 million going to Germany. Doesn't matter if they built stadiums or anything, they can only deduct legitimate expenses incurred on the road to Germany.
So, the problem is this: Money came in and can't be spent on non road to Germany projects. We know from previous "accounts" that expenses were no more than 18 million. So, Jack....and it has to be Jack because he was in charge, has to explain where the 170 million disapeared to.
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It doesn't matter if TTFF goes bankrupt....it was the LOC who collected and dispersed the money. They will have to produce accounts. If the money reached TTFF, then it will be the Federation, but methinks the money didn't go to TTFF. The man ultimately responsible for the LOC accounts is Jack Warner. He cannot blame accountants, other members of LOC, etc because he is ultimately responsible for the actions of the LOC. He can't say that the accounts showed 18 million and he didn't know there was more money.
Now, TTFF said the accounts showed an income of 18 million. The govt say they received 188 million. Theres no way that TTFF spent 170 million going to Germany. Doesn't matter if they built stadiums or anything, they can only deduct legitimate expenses incurred on the road to Germany.
So, the problem is this: Money came in and can't be spent on non road to Germany projects. We know from previous "accounts" that expenses were no more than 18 million. So, Jack....and it has to be Jack because he was in charge, has to explain where the 170 million disapeared to.
suppose if those funds went to the 2007election campaign of the UNC what could be the implications for warner ??? ...remember Warner and pandy fly on private jet to SA
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It doesn't matter if TTFF goes bankrupt....it was the LOC who collected and dispersed the money. They will have to produce accounts. If the money reached TTFF, then it will be the Federation, but methinks the money didn't go to TTFF. The man ultimately responsible for the LOC accounts is Jack Warner. He cannot blame accountants, other members of LOC, etc because he is ultimately responsible for the actions of the LOC. He can't say that the accounts showed 18 million and he didn't know there was more money.
Now, TTFF said the accounts showed an income of 18 million. The govt say they received 188 million. Theres no way that TTFF spent 170 million going to Germany. Doesn't matter if they built stadiums or anything, they can only deduct legitimate expenses incurred on the road to Germany.
So, the problem is this: Money came in and can't be spent on non road to Germany projects. We know from previous "accounts" that expenses were no more than 18 million. So, Jack....and it has to be Jack because he was in charge, has to explain where the 170 million disapeared to.
suppose if those funds went to the 2007election campaign of the UNC what could be the implications for warner ??? ...remember Warner and pandy fly on private jet to SA
Wait nah.
De LOC named in the suit...or the TTFF?
Second.....you feel dat money just fund the 2007 campaign alone? Man seeing online ads on site he go on.
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It doesn't matter if TTFF goes bankrupt....it was the LOC who collected and dispersed the money. They will have to produce accounts. If the money reached TTFF, then it will be the Federation, but methinks the money didn't go to TTFF. The man ultimately responsible for the LOC accounts is Jack Warner. He cannot blame accountants, other members of LOC, etc because he is ultimately responsible for the actions of the LOC. He can't say that the accounts showed 18 million and he didn't know there was more money.
Now, TTFF said the accounts showed an income of 18 million. The govt say they received 188 million. Theres no way that TTFF spent 170 million going to Germany. Doesn't matter if they built stadiums or anything, they can only deduct legitimate expenses incurred on the road to Germany.
So, the problem is this: Money came in and can't be spent on non road to Germany projects. We know from previous "accounts" that expenses were no more than 18 million. So, Jack....and it has to be Jack because he was in charge, has to explain where the 170 million disapeared to.
suppose if those funds went to the 2007election campaign of the UNC what could be the implications for warner ??? ...remember Warner and pandy fly on private jet to SA
It doesn't matter if TTFF goes bankrupt....it was the LOC who collected and dispersed the money. They will have to produce accounts. If the money reached TTFF, then it will be the Federation, but methinks the money didn't go to TTFF. The man ultimately responsible for the LOC accounts is Jack Warner. He cannot blame accountants, other members of LOC, etc because he is ultimately responsible for the actions of the LOC. He can't say that the accounts showed 18 million and he didn't know there was more money.
Now, TTFF said the accounts showed an income of 18 million. The govt say they received 188 million. Theres no way that TTFF spent 170 million going to Germany. Doesn't matter if they built stadiums or anything, they can only deduct legitimate expenses incurred on the road to Germany.
So, the problem is this: Money came in and can't be spent on non road to Germany projects. We know from previous "accounts" that expenses were no more than 18 million. So, Jack....and it has to be Jack because he was in charge, has to explain where the 170 million disapeared to.
suppose if those funds went to the 2007election campaign of the UNC what could be the implications for warner ??? ...remember Warner and pandy fly on private jet to SA
Wait nah.
De LOC named in the suit...or the TTFF?
Second.....you feel dat money just fund the 2007 campaign alone? Man seeing online ads on site he go on.
2007 and 2010 general election was funded by dat money 4 sure. All yuh feel JW use he money. Just like how he use he money 2 fund we football.
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It doesn't matter if TTFF goes bankrupt....it was the LOC who collected and dispersed the money. They will have to produce accounts. If the money reached TTFF, then it will be the Federation, but methinks the money didn't go to TTFF. The man ultimately responsible for the LOC accounts is Jack Warner. He cannot blame accountants, other members of LOC, etc because he is ultimately responsible for the actions of the LOC. He can't say that the accounts showed 18 million and he didn't know there was more money.
Now, TTFF said the accounts showed an income of 18 million. The govt say they received 188 million. Theres no way that TTFF spent 170 million going to Germany. Doesn't matter if they built stadiums or anything, they can only deduct legitimate expenses incurred on the road to Germany.
So, the problem is this: Money came in and can't be spent on non road to Germany projects. We know from previous "accounts" that expenses were no more than 18 million. So, Jack....and it has to be Jack because he was in charge, has to explain where the 170 million disapeared to.
suppose if those funds went to the 2007election campaign of the UNC what could be the implications for warner ??? ...remember Warner and pandy fly on private jet to SA
Wait nah.
De LOC named in the suit...or the TTFF?
Second.....you feel dat money just fund the 2007 campaign alone? Man seeing online ads on site he go on.
That crossed mih mind this morning since Football Supporter brought it up. I'm thinking though that if it were a problem, the Vampire/TTFF would have already used that as a basis for blocking this whole thing. Bakes, paging Bakes......
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wheez, diamondtrim boil down like de proverbial bhaji.
Why would FIFA be named in the suit... did FIFA make any promises to the players that it then didn't keep?
is Jack of all trades dat make de agreement. is an open question which wallet he have in mind. ting is FIFA have real money.
How would FIFA pulling "the plug" give the TTFF release from adjudicated liability?
does "adjudicated liability" translate to de players getting paid? if TTFF "rely" on funds from FIFA, then a sanction may deprive de players of any assets to lay claim against.
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Allyuh real going off topic with this thing.
TTFF is who the suit against. LOC would be a subsidiary of TTFF. It was proven that Jack is able to make promises on behalf of TTFF in his role as special advisor due to him signing basically all their contracts previously and being involved in all their contracts previously.
FIFA have nothing to do with this. The issue here was
1) if a promise was made to pay the players 50% of the profits rather than the 30% (which was proven)
2) 50% of what?
FIFA laws state that nobody cah take the TTFF to court, and that rule was made by Jack DURING these proceedings if you remember. And I doubt that means the reverse, since all FIFA laws are to their benefit. So they could probably go to court if they want. And if they can't, Jack will make the rules change to fix that anyways.
Lastly, whether the money was used in the election campaign or not could never be proven so it really doh make a difference. Nobody could ever prove where election funds come from.
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Allyuh real going off topic with this thing.
TTFF is who the suit against. LOC would be a subsidiary of TTFF. It was proven that Jack is able to make promises on behalf of TTFF in his role as special advisor due to him signing basically all their contracts previously and being involved in all their contracts previously.
FIFA have nothing to do with this. The issue here was
1) if a promise was made to pay the players 50% of the profits rather than the 30% (which was proven)
2) 50% of what?
FIFA laws state that nobody cah take the TTFF to court, and that rule was made by Jack DURING these proceedings if you remember. And I doubt that means the reverse, since all FIFA laws are to their benefit. So they could probably go to court if they want. And if they can't, Jack will make the rules change to fix that anyways.
Lastly, whether the money was used in the election campaign or not could never be proven so it really doh make a difference. Nobody could ever prove where election funds come from.
D election issue is a non issue just dat is a possibility where d money might have gone.
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Allyuh real going off topic with this thing.
TTFF is who the suit against. LOC would be a subsidiary of TTFF. It was proven that Jack is able to make promises on behalf of TTFF in his role as special advisor due to him signing basically all their contracts previously and being involved in all their contracts previously.
FIFA have nothing to do with this. The issue here was
1) if a promise was made to pay the players 50% of the profits rather than the 30% (which was proven)
2) 50% of what?
FIFA laws state that nobody cah take the TTFF to court, and that rule was made by Jack DURING these proceedings if you remember. And I doubt that means the reverse, since all FIFA laws are to their benefit. So they could probably go to court if they want. And if they can't, Jack will make the rules change to fix that anyways.
Lastly, whether the money was used in the election campaign or not could never be proven so it really doh make a difference. Nobody could ever prove where election funds come from.
Thanks but yuh eh have to bouff we so..... ;D
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Allyuh real going off topic with this thing.
TTFF is who the suit against. LOC would be a subsidiary of TTFF. It was proven that Jack is able to make promises on behalf of TTFF in his role as special advisor due to him signing basically all their contracts previously and being involved in all their contracts previously.
FIFA have nothing to do with this. The issue here was
1) if a promise was made to pay the players 50% of the profits rather than the 30% (which was proven)
2) 50% of what?
FIFA laws state that nobody cah take the TTFF to court, and that rule was made by Jack DURING these proceedings if you remember. And I doubt that means the reverse, since all FIFA laws are to their benefit. So they could probably go to court if they want. And if they can't, Jack will make the rules change to fix that anyways.
Lastly, whether the money was used in the election campaign or not could never be proven so it really doh make a difference. Nobody could ever prove where election funds come from.
I'm not so sure. LOC was responsible foir the campaign. They are a seperate entity created and reporting to TTFF. TTFF could say they were duped too and pass the buck back to the LOC. Not likely, but if JW wants to cause confusion, this is one area he could use. In other countries an LOC is formed like a private company and then closed once all matters are closed. Im not sure to what extent TTFF would have had oversight of LOC books, but in reality, they should have had access at all times as well as regular financial reports.
Also, if the money was used to fund elections (or anything else for that matter), it is very easy to track using forensic accounting. It is very difficult to move money, contrary to James Bond et al. Every donation was by cheque. Each cheque has to be deposited. The depositors account will be recorded as would the donators or payees account. Once the mnoney is in the system, every transaction is recorded and traceable. The challenge is to get investigators to seriously investigate. For this reason, foreign auditors should be used. Remember when FPATT proved Jack had paid T&T players match fees with a CONCACAF cheque? This was money laundering and fraud. Any member nation of CONCACAF could have investigated as, technically, this money was from CONCACAF countries taxpapers, but nobody bothered. It didn't even raise a question. Who knows how much money was being moved around?
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That crossed mih mind this morning since Football Supporter brought it up. I'm thinking though that if it were a problem, the Vampire/TTFF would have already used that as a basis for blocking this whole thing. Bakes, paging Bakes......
Not sure if I follow you... are you saying that IF Jack used some of the WC money to fund the UNC campaign; and IF there was a problem with him doing so... he would have said "well, I dun spend de money on buying de election, me eh have no money to give the players." Is that what you're asking?
Nah... Jack would never lose he mind and say something like that... admitting to fraudulent use of TTFF funds, and potentially tainting the PP election win (although some would say that is redundant, given the actors)... just to avoid paying these players is like opting fuh de worserer of two evils.
watch nannytrim and YoursFooly hop all over 'worserer'.
is Jack of all trades dat make de agreement. is an open question which wallet he have in mind. ting is FIFA have real money.
Jack made the agreement in his capacity as "special advisor" to the TTFF, that's pretty much undisputed. There's no logical way to confuse which hat he was wearing in feting the players on their qualification success. He's never negotiated with the players as a FIFA Vice President... he has no need to.
does "adjudicated liability" translate to de players getting paid? if TTFF "rely" on funds from FIFA, then a sanction may deprive de players of any assets to lay claim against.
The question was whether FIFA could pull the plug and give the TTFF "release" from having to pay. If you don't have money to pay dat doh necessarily mean that yuh obligation to pay goes away... ask anybody who ever been thru bankruptcy or familiar with it. Assuming FIFA withold de monies and TTFF bawl dey brokes and cyah pay... all Shaka father have to do is petition de court tuh start selling TTFF assets tuh satisfy de debt. I imagine that between de Dundonaldson St. property and de MLS alone they'd have enough money tuh share. If not, Jack himself could personally be liable given how much he intermingle he own money (by his own words) with TTFF money. That corporate veil getting pierce easy easy.
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Remember when FPATT proved Jack had paid T&T players match fees with a CONCACAF cheque? This was money laundering and fraud. Any member nation of CONCACAF could have investigated as, technically, this money was from CONCACAF countries taxpapers, but nobody bothered. It didn't even raise a question. Who knows how much money was being moved around?
Nah not money laundering... yuh on de right path doh... is more misappropriation of funds or embezzlement if anything. And this wouldn't be money from CONCACAF countries taxpayers... but rather from the CONCACAF Federations... some are funding in part by the local governments, but largely are private, self-sustaining entities, from what I know.
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Campaign money not easy to track...especially when the political 0party win the election. Just so we aware: each candidate allowed $50 000 to use in his campaign for a general election.Anuthing over that is ILLEGAL. So, trust me when i say that ppl not supposed to be able to track.
LOC's would be executing contracts on behalf of a greater body, be it TTFF or d ministry cause when they disbanded, it must have somebody to hold for inquiries that arise.
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is Jack of all trades dat make de agreement. is an open question which wallet he have in mind. ting is FIFA have real money.
Jack made the agreement in his capacity as "special advisor" to the TTFF, that's pretty much undisputed. There's no logical way to confuse which hat he was wearing in feting the players on their qualification success. He's never negotiated with the players as a FIFA Vice President... he has no need to.
does "adjudicated liability" translate to de players getting paid? if TTFF "rely" on funds from FIFA, then a sanction may deprive de players of any assets to lay claim against.
The question was whether FIFA could pull the plug and give the TTFF "release" from having to pay. If you don't have money to pay dat doh necessarily mean that yuh obligation to pay goes away... ask anybody who ever been thru bankruptcy or familiar with it. Assuming FIFA withold de monies and TTFF bawl dey brokes and cyah pay... all Shaka father have to do is petition de court tuh start selling TTFF assets tuh satisfy de debt. I imagine that between de Dundonaldson St. property and de MLS alone they'd have enough money tuh share. If not, Jack himself could personally be liable given how much he intermingle he own money (by his own words) with TTFF money. That corporate veil getting pierce easy easy.
IF TTFF actually have assets uncovered by liabilities to FIFA or financed by Jack directly, then Jack look for dat. whether this make sense for Jack, who have other options, is de question.
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I just read the ENTIRE judgement handed down by the High Court on July 29th. It only reconfirms in my mind that Jackula, Scamps, Grodent and the whole lot of them over at the TTFF are a bunch of stinking nasty, dutty (not our Dutty), bad mind snakes.
It also clarifies in my mind that diamondtrim is a kakahole and so too is Yours Truly, Frico and all the other kakaholes who defend the aforementioned snake(s).....
"Ace" reporter Francis Joseph of the Guardian is another cock sucking kakahole whose keyboard has apparently frozen up and can't yet write the story on this judgement.....he probably waiting on the other "ace" reporter Yours Truly to help him write it.....steups!!!!
Lastly, I am already disillusioned right now about our football but this is the last straw. I will not attending any more games (here or abroad) until the players get their money AND this bunch of losers are no longer in control of our football. I know forumites like Weary, Jah Gol, Steups, Patriot,Big and Small Mag et al attend the games for the love of the team but nah I had enough!!!
Ah know Jackie boy/TTFF eh goh miss my lil puny $40 but dais alright.....all ah dem could kiss mih a$%$!!
:cursing: :cursing: :bs: :frustrated: :frustrated: :busshead: :banginghead: >:( >:( >:(
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The reason I use the term money laundering is because this the act of concealing the source of funds originally obtained by criminal action.
If, for instance, money is used from a bank account for purposes other than those allowed, and then paid to someone for a reason not approved by the owners of that account, there is an illegal act, thereby money laundering. In hindsight, Bakes is correct, perhaps mis appropriation of funds is more accurate.
However, the charge of money laundering has more severe penalties and automatically becomes a global issue as financial transactions cross boundaries.
I am not positive about taxpayers involvement, but I do know that most countries football federations are to some extent supported by govt funding vis a vis taxpayers money.
If you join the dots, if US$1 went into CONCACAF and the charge is money laundering, the FBI could investigate. Remember, Al Capone was only ever convicted of tax evasion!!
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Brown Sugar, I hear you. But for the sake of the young girls, you should really try to support the Soca Princesses. Now I know Jack has his finger in that pie too, but we need to big up the girls.
Also, I think you should formerly become a North East Stars supporter and throw your $20 (or $30) behind Sancho!!
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Brown Sugar, I hear you. But for the sake of the young girls, you should really try to support the Soca Princesses. Now I know Jack has his finger in that pie too, but we need to big up the girls.
Also, I think you should formerly become a North East Stars supporter and throw your $20 (or $30) behind Sancho!!
Nah eh eh....I was already not planning on going to see those games, now that my mind's made up....I eh going to no game being hosted by the TTFF.......
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To the honorary doctorate from the Bake n Shark 'Waste of Sperm' department, you don't have to go local football, I don't think you go anyway and hence you will not be missed.
It's better that I am a kakahole than to be emanated from one; iz no scene, God is love....
I just read the ENTIRE judgement handed down by the High Court on July 29th. It only reconfirms in my mind that Jackula, Scamps, Grodent and the whole lot of them over at the TTFF are a bunch of stinking nasty, dutty (not our Dutty), bad mind and snakes.
It also clarifies in my mind that diamondtrim is a kakahole and so too is Yours Truly, Frico and all the other kakaholes who defend the aforementioned snake(s).....
"Ace" reporter Francis Joseph of the Guardian is another cock sucking kakahole whose keyboard has apparently frozen up and can't yet write the story on this judgement.....he probably waiting on the other "ace" reporter Yours Truly to help him write it.....steups!!!!
Lastly, I am already disillusioned right now about our football but this is the last straw. I will not attending any more games (here or abroad) until the players get their money AND this bunch of losers are no longer in control of our football. I know forumites like Weary, Jah Gol, Steups, Patriot,Big and Small Mag et al attend the games for the love of the team but nah I had enough!!!
Ah know Jackie boy/TTFF eh goh miss my lil puny $40 but dais alright.....all ah dem could kiss mih a$%$!!
:cursing: :cursing: :bs: :frustrated: :frustrated: :busshead: :banginghead: >:( >:( >:(
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Brownsugar
I was like u before WN as dey say I hook as is a mook because of d sw.net/WN. I go because of d lime we iz now family who instead ah bouncin up at funeral as in d case ah u real family (dey doh invite yuh 2 wedding again) we does bounce up at football.
As 4 d under 17 HELL NOOOOOOO. I eh puttin no more money in he pocket.
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Brownsugar
I was like u before WN as dey say I hook as is a mook because of d sw.net/WN. I go because of d lime we iz now family who instead ah bouncin up at funeral as in d case ah u real family (dey doh invite yuh 2 wedding again) we does bounce up at football.
As 4 d under 17 HELL NOOOOOOO. I eh puttin no more money in he pocket.
I goh lime in cyberspace and if all yuh organise any extra curricular activities ah goh be there, but ah eh going no more games....
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Brownsugar
I was like u before WN as dey say I hook as is a mook because of d sw.net/WN. I go because of d lime we iz now family who instead ah bouncin up at funeral as in d case ah u real family (dey doh invite yuh 2 wedding again) we does bounce up at football.
As 4 d under 17 HELL NOOOOOOO. I eh puttin no more money in he pocket.
I goh lime in cyberspace and if all yuh organise any extra curricular activities ah goh be there, but ah eh going no more games....
:beermug:
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Brownsugar
I was like u before WN as dey say I hook as is a mook because of d sw.net/WN. I go because of d lime we iz now family who instead ah bouncin up at funeral as in d case ah u real family (dey doh invite yuh 2 wedding again) we does bounce up at football.
As 4 d under 17 HELL NOOOOOOO. I eh puttin no more money in he pocket.
I goh lime in cyberspace and if all yuh organise any extra curricular activities ah goh be there, but ah eh going no more games....
Is that just until the 2006 World Cup players get paid or is it until the players get paid and Camps resigns as head of the TTFF or is replaced by a non-Jack puppet?
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Brownsugar
I was like u before WN as dey say I hook as is a mook because of d sw.net/WN. I go because of d lime we iz now family who instead ah bouncin up at funeral as in d case ah u real family (dey doh invite yuh 2 wedding again) we does bounce up at football.
As 4 d under 17 HELL NOOOOOOO. I eh puttin no more money in he pocket.
I goh lime in cyberspace and if all yuh organise any extra curricular activities ah goh be there, but ah eh going no more games....
Is that just until the 2006 World Cup players get paid or is it until the players get paid and Camps resigns as head of the TTFF or is replaced by a non-Jack puppet?
I wndered d same ting if is d latter u kno she eh goin a football game again in life.
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IF TTFF actually have assets uncovered by liabilities to FIFA or financed by Jack directly, then Jack look for dat. whether this make sense for Jack, who have other options, is de question.
What liabilities would the TTFF have to FIFA? Even so, assuming the TTFF owes other entities (FIFA included) then all that means is that all the creditors have to form a line and ask the court to dissolve the assets and pay them any proceeds. The way you making it seem is as though the players have to wait until FIFA get pay under your scenario before they could collect. That's not how bankruptcy works... the court determines the order of payments to creditors, and in what amount... creditors often don't recover the full amount of the debt.
Finally, what other options Jack have that you talking about? The man have a court determined liability to satisfy.
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The reason I use the term money laundering is because this the act of concealing the source of funds originally obtained by criminal action.
If, for instance, money is used from a bank account for purposes other than those allowed, and then paid to someone for a reason not approved by the owners of that account, there is an illegal act, thereby money laundering. In hindsight, Bakes is correct, perhaps mis appropriation of funds is more accurate.
However, the charge of money laundering has more severe penalties and automatically becomes a global issue as financial transactions cross boundaries.
I am not positive about taxpayers involvement, but I do know that most countries football federations are to some extent supported by govt funding vis a vis taxpayers money.
If you join the dots, if US$1 went into CONCACAF and the charge is money laundering, the FBI could investigate. Remember, Al Capone was only ever convicted of tax evasion!!
I just disagree with the term (not that any of this matters) because in the truest sense money laundering involves taking funds acquired via illegal means and channeling them thru legal transactions to remove the taint and thereby conceal the criminal activity at the source. You're literally taking "dirty" money and laundering (launder= wash; see the relationship to "laundry") it clean.
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Brownsugar
I was like u before WN as dey say I hook as is a mook because of d sw.net/WN. I go because of d lime we iz now family who instead ah bouncin up at funeral as in d case ah u real family (dey doh invite yuh 2 wedding again) we does bounce up at football.
As 4 d under 17 HELL NOOOOOOO. I eh puttin no more money in he pocket.
I goh lime in cyberspace and if all yuh organise any extra curricular activities ah goh be there, but ah eh going no more games....
Is that just until the 2006 World Cup players get paid or is it until the players get paid and Camps resigns as head of the TTFF or is replaced by a non-Jack puppet?
I wndered d same ting if is d latter u kno she eh goin a football game again in life.
Yup its a life long ban......
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Brownsugar
I was like u before WN as dey say I hook as is a mook because of d sw.net/WN. I go because of d lime we iz now family who instead ah bouncin up at funeral as in d case ah u real family (dey doh invite yuh 2 wedding again) we does bounce up at football.
As 4 d under 17 HELL NOOOOOOO. I eh puttin no more money in he pocket.
I goh lime in cyberspace and if all yuh organise any extra curricular activities ah goh be there, but ah eh going no more games....
Is that just until the 2006 World Cup players get paid or is it until the players get paid and Camps resigns as head of the TTFF or is replaced by a non-Jack puppet?
I wndered d same ting if is d latter u kno she eh goin a football game again in life.
Yup its a life long ban......
I ON 1 AH DEM 4 WI CRICKET
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Coop's ,
Yuh dey breds? Iz not like you to be so silent on these matters. Well .... yuh have meh worried dread. The younger folks need some guidance from de elders, so see if yu could ress dong yuh 2 cents on this matter which seems to have widespread repercussions.
Big up. :beermug:
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To the honorary doctorate from the Bake n Shark 'Waste of Sperm' department, you don't have to go local football, I don't think you go anyway and hence you will not be missed.
It's better that I am a kakahole than to be emanated from one; iz no scene, God is love....
I just read the ENTIRE judgement handed down by the High Court on July 29th. It only reconfirms in my mind that Jackula, Scamps, Grodent and the whole lot of them over at the TTFF are a bunch of stinking nasty, dutty (not our Dutty), bad mind and snakes.
It also clarifies in my mind that diamondtrim is a kakahole and so too is Yours Truly, Frico and all the other kakaholes who defend the aforementioned snake(s).....
"Ace" reporter Francis Joseph of the Guardian is another cock sucking kakahole whose keyboard has apparently frozen up and can't yet write the story on this judgement.....he probably waiting on the other "ace" reporter Yours Truly to help him write it.....steups!!!!
Lastly, I am already disillusioned right now about our football but this is the last straw. I will not attending any more games (here or abroad) until the players get their money AND this bunch of losers are no longer in control of our football. I know forumites like Weary, Jah Gol, Steups, Patriot,Big and Small Mag et al attend the games for the love of the team but nah I had enough!!!
Ah know Jackie boy/TTFF eh goh miss my lil puny $40 but dais alright.....all ah dem could kiss mih a$%$!!
:cursing: :cursing: :bs: :frustrated: :frustrated: :busshead: :banginghead: >:( >:( >:(
They calling you Shaun Fuentes, but Shaun is not f**king like you breds. He doh behave so..I thought yuh was him too eh...but yuh cyar be Fuentes,,,I go come up with who yuh is soon eh, yuh giving hints....
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Yea and will that be a sense of accomplishment for you Mr Ancient (remember Trinity Cross is no more, is Order of Trinidad and Tobago, get wit the the times)? And how come u're on my case, have nothing to do (seeing you're now in the Smithsonian Museum)?
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BrownSugar it was really nice to see you in Nashville,TN for the USA vs T&T game last year. You flew all the way there just to watch that game. You're a true supporter.
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Yea and will that be a sense of accomplishment for you Mr Ancient (remember Trinity Cross is no more, is Order of Trinidad and Tobago, get wit the the times)? And how come u're on my case, have nothing to do (seeing you're now in the Smithsonian Museum)?
allyuh relly takin dis man/boy/benjamin-button serious??
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Until they beat me with stories, they have to take me serious, who else can you all bash ;D?
[/quote]
allyuh relly takin dis man/boy/benjamin-button serious??
[/quote]
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Yea and will that be a sense of accomplishment for you Mr Ancient (remember Trinity Cross is no more, is Order of Trinidad and Tobago, get wit the the times)? And how come u're on my case, have nothing to do (seeing you're now in the Smithsonian Museum)?
I can see why some will feel that yours truly is Fuentes. Fuentes here a long time and he knows very well how to use the Quote feature.
Now he might be plAYING POSSUM EH, but on reflection he doh write like Fuentes too much.
He may know Fuentes, as he does make football posts. If he knows Fuentes and he is a reporter, den he is a reporter....!
so leh we by the process of elimination find out who he could be odder dan fuentes.
I know it is not any ah de Guardian reporters, dem not in dis shit..Express nah/... so dat leaves de Newsday.
Who does report football for de newsday on a consistent basis?
I going and google and wheel again....Yuh have to be from de jammette newsday...
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Warriors prepare to dent Bajan Pride
By JOEL BAILEY Friday, January 12 2007
Warriors maul Martinique 5-1
By JOEL BAILEY Wednesday, January 17 2007
CFU) Under-21 Group Two qualifier : Haitians crush Young Trinidad Warriors 3-1
http://www.newsday.co.tt/aktualnosci/BACK-1.jpg
JOEL BAILEY 2006-04-05 02:26 (updated 2006-04-05 06:07)
ahhhhhhppppps!
It eh go be nobody else as I know most ah dem ALibey not in dis shit.
see dat Mr Bailey....
the old Trinity cross is ah f**king boss
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Warriors prepare to dent Bajan Pride
By JOEL BAILEY Friday, January 12 2007
Warriors maul Martinique 5-1
By JOEL BAILEY Wednesday, January 17 2007
CFU) Under-21 Group Two qualifier : Haitians crush Young Trinidad Warriors 3-1
http://www.newsday.co.tt/aktualnosci/BACK-1.jpg
JOEL BAILEY 2006-04-05 02:26 (updated 2006-04-05 06:07)
ahhhhhhppppps!
It eh go be nobody else as I know most ah dem ALibey not in dis shit.
see dat Mr Bailey....
the old Trinity cross is ah f**king boss
Gosh they call me Fuentes last month, this month is Bailey, next month go be Dave Lamy!
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Leave Joel Bailey right where he is...trying to cause disharmony here more than it already exists! STEUPS!
Doh try tuh lie either yuh know...I know who yuh is now yuh clown hahahahahahaha
From the Smithsonian to you with love.
Dey call you Fuentes, I calling yuh by yuh name....Joel!~
Doh try dat....I writing for papers before you leave elementary school
Yuh is Mr. Bailey!
Deny it den....I know what I know is de trute...yuh fowl f**ker
Yuh sell yuhself out....yuh is ah reporter, yuh does be first with scores, yuh is de man from de newsday who does report on football...Fuentes may have his ways like d erest ah we, but he here too long to start shit now yuh bastard.
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Leave Joel Bailey right where he is...trying to cause disharmony here more than it already exists! STEUPS!
Doh try tuh lie either yuh know...I know who yuh is now yuh clown hahahahahahaha
From the Smithsonian to you with love.
Dey call you Fuentes, I calling yuh by yuh name....Joel!~
Doh try dat....I writing for papers before you leave elementary school
Yuh is Mr. Bailey!
Deny it den....I know what I know is de trute...yuh fowl f**ker
Hmmm, a next one trying to determine my identity, hmmmmm wow boy, the devil really finds work for idle hands for true yes. Alrite we'll see how this goes.... ;D
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Leave Joel Bailey right where he is...trying to cause disharmony here more than it already exists! STEUPS!
Doh try tuh lie either yuh know...I know who yuh is now yuh clown hahahahahahaha
From the Smithsonian to you with love.
Dey call you Fuentes, I calling yuh by yuh name....Joel!~
Doh try dat....I writing for papers before you leave elementary school
Yuh is Mr. Bailey!
Deny it den....I know what I know is de trute...yuh fowl f**ker
Hmmm, a next one trying to determine my identity, hmmmmm wow boy, the devil really finds work for idle hands for true yes. Alrite we'll see how this goes.... ;D
I have already determined your identity. Yuh eh deny it yuh breaksing..ok Joel yuh is ah Jack Warner and PP follower ah done know dat to be true also...yuh say yuh is ah reporter, and I know yuh is not from Express or Guardian. Yuh is ah footbball reporter and yuh style is so childish it cyar be Alibey...dat leaves you Mr Joel Bailey!
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Alrite no problem, as I said I've been called all sorta name so if you feel I'm Bailey, no problem; next month you may feel I'm someone else, no problem. All I know iz I'm me (regardless of if iz Fuentes, Bailey, Fazeer, Ruskin etc), but I know I have to make a trip in the Smithsonian one day to see how things are wit u ;D
I have already determined your identity. Yuh eh deny it yuh breaksing..ok Joel yuh is ah Jack Warner and PP follower ah done know dat to be true also...yuh say yuh is ah reporter, and I know yuh is not from Express or Guardian. Yuh is ah footbball reporter and yuh style is so childish it cyar be Alibey...dat leaves you Mr Joel Bailey!
[/quote]
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Alrite no problem, as I said I've been called all sorta name so if you feel I'm Bailey, no problem; next month you may feel I'm someone else, no problem. All I know iz I'm me (regardless of if iz Fuentes, Bailey, Fazeer, Ruskin etc), but I know I have to make a trip in the Smithsonian one day to see how things are wit u ;D
I have already determined your identity. Yuh eh deny it yuh breaksing..ok Joel yuh is ah Jack Warner and PP follower ah done know dat to be true also...yuh say yuh is ah reporter, and I know yuh is not from Express or Guardian. Yuh is ah footbball reporter and yuh style is so childish it cyar be Alibey...dat leaves you Mr Joel Bailey!
[/quote]
hahahahahahaha me eh have nutten against you yuh know, I jes showing yuh dat I have investigative skills! Yuh outsmart yuhself and I is ah narcissistic fat red man according to a confused kaka-hole here, so therein lies my troubles.
When ah next in T&T me you, Alibey and Fuentes go drink ah beer,,,cool?
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We go drink and be merry, and eat and be happy....
This have to be the best for the day yes, another person digging up and callin me by another name, whey, this website aint good fun for true yes; I feel next month someone will say they investigate and I'm Francis Joseph; and I sure in October I'll be Roger Sant!!!
Anyway I like reading Bailey and Fuentes stories, and Alibey I know from long time, so we can all lime at the Smithsonian :rotfl:
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We go drink and be merry, and eat and be happy....
This have to be the best for the day yes, another person digging up and callin me by another name, whey, this website aint good fun for true yes; I feel next month someone will say they investigate and I'm Francis Joseph; and I sure in October I'll be Roger Sant!!!
Anyway I like reading Bailey and Fuentes stories, and Alibey I know from long time, so we can all lime at the Smithsonian :rotfl:
Yuh like dat shitty style you have? steups...if yuh want lessons...PM meh ah could help yuh.
Joel, Joel, Joel....stop it nah. Puhleeze
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Skills tuh burn Joel Bailey...I have skills to burn, but yuh make it real easy fro ah old man like me to unearth yuh id....too easy.
Thins is it real easy to track yuh and yuh poor style down on Big Soccer too...muhahahahahahaha
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Yuh like dat shitty style you have? steups...if yuh want lessons...PM meh ah could help yuh.
Joel, Joel, Joel....stop it nah. Puhleeze
[/quote]
Okay Hugh Wooding I'll stop; I give up, call me whatever you want yes - like everyone on this site, call me all setta stuff, since you seem fixated on this Joel thing, I give up on you too yes.
Guess I may have to widen the 'Waste of Sperm' membership yes, you have lifelong entry ;)
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Yuh like dat shitty style you have? steups...if yuh want lessons...PM meh ah could help yuh.
Joel, Joel, Joel....stop it nah. Puhleeze
Okay Hugh Wooding I'll stop; I give up, call me whatever you want yes - like everyone on this site, call me all setta stuff, since you seem fixated on this Joel thing, I give up on you too yes.
Guess I may have to widen the 'Waste of Sperm' membership yes, you have lifelong entry ;)
[/quote]
If yuh so inclined then do so Mr. Bailey! Play yuhself...But I have proof now...but ah will ONLY use dat if yuh persist in causing mischief here....yuh have been warned Joel,,,yuh have been warned!
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Yes I have been warned, and I'll call James Philbert to give me protection, or better yet I'll use the assortments of Ruff Ryders, that can be enough protection. Want some? It may help u :rotfl:
If yuh so inclined then do so Mr. Bailey! Play yuhself...But I have proof now...but ah will ONLY use dat if yuh persist in causing mischief here....yuh have been warned Joel,,,yuh have been warned!
[/quote]
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ooohhh guuuudddd...I was missing this lil tete a tete..... :heehee: :heehee:
BrownSugar it was really nice to see you in Nashville,TN for the USA vs T&T game last year. You flew all the way there just to watch that game. You're a true supporter.
Nice to have met you too Elan..... :beermug:
(p.s TTFF owing mih for dat trip!!.... >:()
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Marcia Henville was interviewing Jack a short while ago on Gayelle. She brought up the issue of the players.
Jack say the case eh even start yet. He say he never promise Gross revenues he promise Net revenues. He say any shrewd businessman would never promise gross (I've heard his puppet Anil make this statement many times). He say the players are being encouraged in their actions by people with a political agenda. He say the players tried to embarrass him on the eve of the elections but he was voted in by 97% of Chaguanas West so the tactic failed. He forget to mention that the players held the press conference because of the lies he was spewing on the campaign trail but I digress.
He said 8 players were paid (ah still trying to figure out if this is a variation on his "only 4 players are left to be paid" lie...)
He said just last week another player approached him for payment. :thinking: He also said at one point in the interview, that the TTFF didn't have an agreement with the players it was he who approached them. Ah not sure if he trying to say the TTFF eh owe them nutten.... :-\ She asked him if the TTFF is going to submit the accounts to the court by August 30th. He say he eh know. She asked if the accounts are up to date and accurate, he say they are audited by KPMG so that means everything is alright and above board........(Enron was audited by Arthur Andersen)
Marcia make the mistake and quoted from something Lasana Liburd wrote.....well, who tell she say dat!! He promise fire and brimstone for Lasana in time to come!!!.... :o :o So long he want to destroy Lasana why he eh do it yet?? Steups!!
Basically, if yuh eh following the story like a hawk (or like me ;D), Jack tief way people head AGAIN!!!....
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Marcia Henville was interviewing Jack a short while ago on Gayelle. She brought up the issue of the players.
Jack say the case eh even start yet. He say he never promise Gross revenues he promise Net revenues. He say any shrewd businessman would never promise gross (I've heard his puppet Anil make this statement many times). He say the players are being encouraged in their actions by people with a political agenda. He say the players tried to embarrass him on the eve of the elections but he was voted in by 97% of Chaguanas West so the tactic failed. He forget to mention that the players held the press conference because of the lies he was spewing on the campaign trail but I digress.
He said 8 players were paid (ah still trying to figure out if this is a variation on his "only 4 players are left to be paid" lie...)
He said just last week another player approached him for payment. :thinking: He also said at one point in the interview, that the TTFF didn't have an agreement with the players it was he who approached them. Ah not sure if he trying to say the TTFF eh owe them nutten.... :-\ She asked him if the TTFF is going to submit the accounts to the court by August 30th. He say he eh know. She asked if the accounts are up to date and accurate, he say they are audited by KPMG so that means everything is alright and above board........(Enron was audited by Arthur Andersen)
Marcia make the mistake and quoted from something Lasana Liburd wrote.....well, who tell she say dat!! He promise fire and brimstone for Lasana in time to come!!!.... :o :o So long he want to destroy Lasana why he eh do it yet?? Steups!!
Basically, if yuh eh following the story like a hawk (or like me ;D), Jack tief way people head AGAIN!!!....
Dey want dey head 2b stolen. D case eh strt yet so watch d judge rule on. All d free education we cyah comprehend.
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Ah guess he mean both parties cyar decide on the amount and that is the basis for any further action the TTFF going to take.....he said the players themselves eh even know what they were entitled to.....
Who the hell knows with this friggin nasty vampire!!! steups!!
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Ah guess he mean both parties cyar decide on the amount and that is the basis for any further action the TTFF going to take.....he said the players themselves eh even know what they were entitled to.....
Who the hell knows with this friggin nasty vampire!!! steups!!
OH HORRRRRRR but even on the gross it eh 5000 TT
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I agree (for the first time) with Jack that it should be calculated on the net figure. However, this should only be net of reasonable expenses such as travel, accomodation etc, most of which was paid by FIFA. This is why accurate accounts are required. It is questionable whether TTFF staff expenses should be deducted from the gross figures because not everyone who attended was actually necessary, some were there simply as a reward.
Also little issues like TTFF deducting German tax from the qualifying bonus when FIFA stipulate that the bonus is free of local taxes!
There will be lots of "expenses" claimed by TTFF which were not necessary and should be deducted from the TTFF net, not the total income gross.
The accounts should make interesting reading, especially as the "official" accounts presented only showed income of $18million. Or are there 2 sets of official accounts? ??? ???
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Nah man Football Supporter, 2 sets of Accounts?? For a company that's Audited by KMPG no less!!....how we could say that about the fine upstanding organisation known as the TTFF??!!.... ::) ::)
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NET/GROSS ME EH REALLY CARE JUST PAY DEM MORE THAN 5000TT
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I agree (for the first time) with Jack that it should be calculated on the net figure.
Whatever it "should" be is besides the point... the issue is what he actually promised the players, not what he should have prudently promise them.
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So we celebrate Independence 2day and YDAY was d day that d TTFF had 2 respond 2 opening of the books. So far as I know TTFF filed nothing by the deadline. 23rd Sept is one of the biggest days for the integrity and impartiality of the court system. Will it be bold enough? I hope so,...
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As stated before, its difficult to know what they can file. Maybe they are trying to figure out what they can leave out that no one will notice, but thats dangerous. They've already been exposed as producing incorrect accounts. If they do so again, I guess it would be in contempt of court, false accounting and maybe even fraud.
There are certain "definates" in the public domain that they cannot dispute, such as the FIFA qualifying bonus, the Adidas contract, TSTT (think we even had a photo of Jack and a TSTT cheque on this site). If you search far enough, there are lots of press releases from TTFF boasting they had received money from such and such.
Also, they can't even dispute the claim because their chance to do that was at arbitration and not one argument against the 50% was raised. The man who did the deal, Jack Warner, did not even offer evidence. In fact, not one witness appeared for the defence....and it was their choice to go to arbitration.
So the judge will look at this and get vexed. They chose arbitration to settle the dispute, but never really put forward any defence, thus wasting time and money. After all, if theres no dispute, what are TTFF disputing?
This should be a straight forward matter. It has been found at arbitration that TTFF owe 50% of the 2006 income (less allowable expenses) If no accounts are forthcoming, the judge shoild order an interim payment based on figures referred to in the arbitration and were not disputed. That could be as much as TT$10 million. Given that TTFF has spuriously delayed proceedings at every step, an order to pay the legal fees to date immediately should also be open and shut.
Then the judge should rule on any isues with the accounts, i.e if they are incorrect or not produced, I'm sure he can order 14 day imprisonment for contempt of court. He may also decide to order a police investigation or forensic audit.
Bottom line is...how can TTFF get out of this one? Even if they have the interim payment available, there would be questions asked because they have stated they are broke. Of course, Jack could step up and "save T&T football" by making the payment himself....but wouldn't that look kinda suspicious??
Interesting month-september!!
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As stated before, its difficult to know what they can file. Maybe they are trying to figure out what they can leave out that no one will notice, but thats dangerous. They've already been exposed as producing incorrect accounts. If they do so again, I guess it would be in contempt of court, false accounting and maybe even fraud.
There are certain "definates" in the public domain that they cannot dispute, such as the FIFA qualifying bonus, the Adidas contract, TSTT (think we even had a photo of Jack and a TSTT cheque on this site). If you search far enough, there are lots of press releases from TTFF boasting they had received money from such and such.
Also, they can't even dispute the claim because their chance to do that was at arbitration and not one argument against the 50% was raised. The man who did the deal, Jack Warner, did not even offer evidence. In fact, not one witness appeared for the defence....and it was their choice to go to arbitration.
So the judge will look at this and get vexed. They chose arbitration to settle the dispute, but never really put forward any defence, thus wasting time and money. After all, if theres no dispute, what are TTFF disputing?
This should be a straight forward matter. It has been found at arbitration that TTFF owe 50% of the 2006 income (less allowable expenses) If no accounts are forthcoming, the judge shoild order an interim payment based on figures referred to in the arbitration and were not disputed. That could be as much as TT$10 million. Given that TTFF has spuriously delayed proceedings at every step, an order to pay the legal fees to date immediately should also be open and shut.
Then the judge should rule on any isues with the accounts, i.e if they are incorrect or not produced, I'm sure he can order 14 day imprisonment for contempt of court. He may also decide to order a police investigation or forensic audit.
Bottom line is...how can TTFF get out of this one? Even if they have the interim payment available, there would be questions asked because they have stated they are broke. Of course, Jack could step up and "save T&T football" by making the payment himself....but wouldn't that look kinda suspicious??
Interesting month-september!!
will the judge order an audit on jack Warner's bank account ??? remember one time he requested payment straight to his account ...
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Warner made some statements on First Up TV show (I think that whats its called)a few weeks ago, he said that this issue is far being over, he is willing to take it to the Privy Council.
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I'm not sure he can take it anywhere. There is no appeal against arbitration. He had his chance to contest the decision. His big problem was that he chose the arbitration and then presented no argument or evidence to defend TTFF . Its difficult for him to now say this decision was unfair. On what grounds could he protest? What new evidence could have suddenly turned up? They got x amount of money, the players are owed 50%, case closed. They've had 4 years to plan their defence, but didn't bother. Any judge worth his salt will say that they've had ample chances and all they're doing is prolonging the dispute.
From what I recall, I think Jack and Groden were named originally in some context because I believe the players thought that the money would be gone from TTFF and the lawyer wanted to make sure the money could be chased.
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Mods all yuh will merge
Appeal of d judge ruling is schedule 4 Mon. Remember Nov 26th is when d judge talking dinero.
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Mods all yuh will merge
Appeal of d judge ruling is schedule 4 Mon. Remember Nov 26th is when d judge talking dinero.
Shakas father, George Hislop will present affidavit on behalf of players & Mike Townley.
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Mods all yuh will merge
Appeal of d judge ruling is schedule 4 Mon. Remember Nov 26th is when d judge talking dinero.
Shakas father, George Hislop will present affidavit on behalf of players & Mike Townley.
U go tell we d outcome.
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Mods all yuh will merge
Appeal of d judge ruling is schedule 4 Mon. Remember Nov 26th is when d judge talking dinero.
It is??!! Good. I'll be paying close attention.....God doh sleep and he doh like ugliness like Jackula, Scamps and Rodent....the longest rope have an end.....
Warner made some statements on First Up TV show (I think that whats its called)a few weeks ago, he said that this issue is far being over, he is willing to take it to the Privy Council.
He could take to the lord in prayer if he wants to, he goh have to pay eventually even if in the end is Darryl Warner who goh have to pay Shaka grandchirren, dey goh pay....
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Mods all yuh will merge
Appeal of d judge ruling is schedule 4 Mon. Remember Nov 26th is when d judge talking dinero.
It is??!! Good. I'll be paying close attention.....God doh sleep and he doh like ugliness like Jackula, Scamps and Rodent....the longest rope have an end.....
Warner made some statements on First Up TV show (I think that whats its called)a few weeks ago, he said that this issue is far being over, he is willing to take it to the Privy Council.
He could take to the lord in prayer if he wants to, he goh have to pay eventually even if in the end is Darryl Warner who goh have to pay Shaka grandchirren, dey goh pay....
CO-SIGNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
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Dreamer here ..... on de alert, despite de name. :o
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So d case adjourn as d TTFF lawyer eh come because of Tomas. So Om is a HUGE WASTE OR IS IT WAIST?
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$7m for Soca Warriors
By Denyse Renne (T&T Express)
The Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) has been ordered to pay over $7 million as an interim payment to 13 players who represented this country at the 2006 FIFA World Cup.
Justice Devindra Rampersad, presiding in the Port of Spain High Court yesterday, ruled that an interim payment of US$1,140,384.39 be paid to the footballers. He also expressed concern over what he labelled as the inadequate and "cloudy" way in which the TTFF's accounting books were presented to the courts.
"I have great issue with the accounts filed and I feel there has been no compliance with the precedent set out," Rampersad said.
Looking at the "books", Rampersad said there was no indication with respect to grants and monies received.
"It is totally unaccountable," he said.
The books tendered included all commercial revenue associated with the players in their build-up to the 2006 World Cup, which was held in Germany.
Rampersad then ordered that the accounts be properly done on an Excel spreadsheet.
"I find it strange, I have one document from FIFA, why do we not have a final letter from FIFA and Adidas saying this is how much we paid? Lucky or unlucky for you, I have some experience in the accounting field." Rampersad said he could tell when things were not right.
In addressing attorneys present, Rampersad said FIFA's monies "are a mystery" and that "one million francs" seemed to be missing.
"I cannot understand why it is not accounted for," he said.
Attorneys Om Lalla and Kelvin Ramkissoon are appearing on behalf of the TTFF, while attorneys Michael Tong-Lee, Dave DePeiza and George Hislop are seeking the interest of the footballers.
At yesterday's hearing, attorney Derrick Balliram stood in for Lalla, who was out of the country. The judge said he needed to have several matters cleared and needed the assistance of Lalla for this to be achieved.
Rampersad said in coming to his decision, sports giant Adidas had a contract with the TTFF where equipment and other items were provided, adding that this was not monetary in value. He said this was left out as part of the interim payment and he needed further clarity on this issue. He said he was also unsatisfied about what happened to other money, moreso the millions pumped from the private sector, which crossed $40 million.
"What is happening? A striking piece of document is not being accounted for and that is startling. Some of the monies was pre-qualifying and post. If this is the case, the monies are not accounted," Rampersad said.
Noting that auditors K Rampersad did not say how the money came in and how it was disbursed, Rampersad said however long it takes "the accounts must be properly done".
He said initially there were 16 players contesting the suit, but three of them—Marvin Andrews, Chris Birchall and Ian Cox—withdrew from the suit. Rampersad ordered that they pay their own costs.
The players who continued the action against the TTFF-led Oliver Camps are Brent Sancho, Shaka Hislop, Kelvin Jack, Atiba Charles, Cyd Gray, Avery John, Aurtis Whitley, Collin Samuel, Evans Wise, Anthony Wolfe, Cornell Glen, Kenwyne Jones and Stern John. FIFA vice-president and TTFF special adviser, Jack Warner, was also named in the suit.
Last year, the TTFF appealed Rampersad's July 29 order requesting it honour its bonus agreement with the players. This was dismissed by the Appeal Court.
Court proceedings were first filed in November 2008 at the Port of Spain High Court, where the 16 players asked the High Court to enforce the judgment of the London-based Sport Dispute Resolution Panel (SDRP).
The SDRP had ruled in May 2008 that under the terms of a contract agreed to by Warner, the Soca Warriors were owed 50 per cent of all 2006 World Cup commercial revenue. However, the TTFF claimed a breach of confidentiality by the players meant they were (TTFF) were no longer obligated to the agreement. Following weeks of arguments, Rampersad ruled in favour of the players but the TTFF appealed the decision.
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Jack: Give them the money
By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Feb 25, 2011 at 11:43 PM ECT
(Story Updated: Feb 25, 2011 at 11:43 PM ECT )
FIFA Vice President Jack Warner said yesterday that he believes the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) should pay the Soca Warriors the money owed to them as ordered by the courts.
Warner, also the Minister of Works and Transport, made the comment following the adjournment of the Parliament sitting.
"I am not involved in that, you know, the TTFF will have to decide. I imagine they will appeal, I really don't know. I haven't spoken to the TTFF," Warner said.
Pressed for further comment, he said: "I have taken myself out of that a long time ago. They had asked for $100 million, at one time was $50 million, then it came to $20 million, one month ago it was $10 million, now the courts says $6 million, okay.
"If I were to advise the TTFF, I would tell them of course to give it to them and call it a day, because at the end of the day this thing is just protracted, a waste of time and in the end nobody will believe it."
Questioned on criticisms that he is responsible for the legal position taken by the players, Warner said, "The country will judge me by my deeds. If the country believes that I am a person who treats people unfairly, I will pay a price for that. If the country believes that I treat people fairly, I will also be praised for that. I don't have to prove anything to anybody, my deeds speak for themselves and this is good enough for me."
He added, "It's one man and one man only who has been fighting this thing, Shaka Hislop and his father. We have paid much more money than you have here.
"What is to gain in all this? What it shows of course is how frivolous this whole thing has been and what it does show is how one man, one person only could lead a multitude to do nonsense. It didn't have to reach this far, from $100 million to now $6 million."
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Mixed reaction from players
By Kern De Freitas
Story Created: Feb 25, 2011 at 11:43 PM ECT
For the 13 Soca Warriors involved in a legal battle against the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF), it was a bittersweet moment when they were awarded an interim payment of in excess of $7 million (US$1.1 million) yesterday.
Ex-T&T defender Brent Sancho, one of the most vocal players during the case that dates back to 2006, was relieved to finally have some progress in a matter that has had its fair share of twists and turns.
"It's a happy/sad moment because we're finally moving forward in the case. The sad point is where is the money gone because they (TTFF) can't show where the money is gone," Sancho said.
In 2006, 16 players took legal action against the TTFF over 2006 World Cup bonus money they claimed was promised by TTFF special adviser, now Minister of Works, Jack Warner.
After being awarded the money by a sports arbitration body in England, the TTFF took it to the local courts, where High Court Judge Devindra Rampersad ordered the TTFF to pay the players and asked to see the federation's books.
The Express learned that in addition to awarding the footballers an interim sum, to be confirmed next Friday, the TTFF has also been directed to redo their books and present them again to the courts.
Sancho yesterday called on Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar and Minister of Sports Anil Roberts to investigate the matter. He added that the players are happy with the judgment.
"Everybody is happy, but it is astonishing what happened with the accounts, where the money has gone. Where is the money going? Whose pocket is it lining? They want to get paid but in the end they want to see football do well."
George Hislop, father of former T&T goalkeeper Shaka Hislop and one of the legal counsel representing the players in the matter, said the result was a "favourable one" for them.
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He added, "It's one man and one man only who has been fighting this thing, Shaka Hislop and his father. We have paid much more money than you have here.
Jack if I do de math in yuh statement above that will be 2 men who has been fighting it?!?!
Not so?
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kamla and anil will NEVER investigate that. Dem is jack puppets
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Having only got to know about this from being a member here and from what I have read the above statement doesn't surprise me at all, indeed I doubt the courts will ever get the full accounts of all the monies.
I am not surprised Warner is distancing himself from it and it appears he has come out on the wrong side, but I don't think it is that straight forward either, there was a story from the Scottish FA that he asked for the friendly payment to be paid directly to him if I remember correctly. This could run and run, but maybe in TNT it will just get swept under the carpet and the status quo prevail, if that happens I don't think it will be a paticularly good outcome for the sport in your country, this is probably your best and only opportunity to get somewhere near the truth of whats being going on.
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kamla and anil will NEVER investigate that. Dem is jack puppets
Dem know dat but they makin sure it is said 4 d few peeps in d country wit a brain 2 ask a question. Dey write Kamliar as she is called on d express blogs and she eh get a response yet.
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Jack statements confirm yet again his true character to me..
he is ah fcking snake in de grass >:(
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Jack statements confirm yet again his true character to me..
he is ah fcking snake in de grass >:(
Snakes pretty upset dat dey bein associated wit Jack
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Jack: Give them the money
By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Feb 25, 2011 at 11:43 PM ECT
"What is to gain in all this? What it shows of course is how frivolous this whole thing has been and what it does show is how one man, one person only could lead a multitude to do nonsense. It didn't have to reach this far, from $100 million to now $6 million."
is a lot more than 6 million you go be paying boss ;D
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Jack: Give them the money
By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Feb 25, 2011 at 11:43 PM ECT
"What is to gain in all this? What it shows of course is how frivolous this whole thing has been and what it does show is how one man, one person only could lead a multitude to do nonsense. It didn't have to reach this far, from $100 million to now $6 million."
is a lot more than 6 million you go be paying boss ;D
He ent paying nothing, You ent see he done leave Camps out to dry. He done advising them to pay. I guess he will advise them on where to get the money.
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Jack: Give them the money
By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Feb 25, 2011 at 11:43 PM ECT
"What is to gain in all this? What it shows of course is how frivolous this whole thing has been and what it does show is how one man, one person only could lead a multitude to do nonsense. It didn't have to reach this far, from $100 million to now $6 million."
is a lot more than 6 million you go be paying boss ;D
He ent paying nothing, You ent see he done leave Camps out to dry. He done advising them to pay. I guess he will advise them on where to get the money.
[/quote
Scamps eh have 6 Guyanese cents so Jack will pay.
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CHECK D GUARDIAN VERSION
LOUDESTTTTTTTT OFFFFFFFFFFFFFF STEUPSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Warriors 5 years waiting in the wings for $6m
Published: Sat, 2011-02-26 21:51
Thirteen Soca Warriors who represented T&T in the 2006 World Cup campaign were yesterday awarded over US$1.1 million as an interim payment, in a lawsuit brought by the footballers seeking to collect bonuses promised to them. Footballers Aurtis Whitley, Brent Sancho, Atiba Charles and Cyd Gray, were visibly elated at the decision, but remained pleasantly quiet. They, together with 10 other national footballers, who represented T&T in Germany, would each have an equal share in the interim award of US$1,140,384.89.
Justice Devindra Rampersad ordered the interim payment after rejecting the accounting documents which were submitted by the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF). “I feel there has been non-compliance with the order,” he said. He noted that there were several disparities in the accounting documents. These, he said, were not properly accounted for by auditors Rampersad and Co. “It is all so cloudy right now,” Rampersad (Devindra) said. Among the disparities, he said, was the non-accountability for $1 million Swiss francs.
Also, several million received from private sector funding was not properly accounted for, he said. “That has not been accounted for,” he said. As a result, he ordered the TTFF to prepare new accounting records which are to be “itemised” on an “Excel spreadsheet”. Rampersad was expected to rule yesterday on payment in the lawsuit but was thwarted by the incomplete accounting reports. He told attorney Derek Balliram, counsel for the TTFF, that the accounting records were not in proper order and did not properly account for the funds of the TTFF.
The ‘roller coaster’ matter which had been resolved in the United Kingdom was sent to Rampersad, then to the Court of Appeal and again back to the lower court judge. The proceedings were filed in November 2008, initially by 16 players who demanded that the High Court enforce the judgment of the London-based Sport Dispute Resolution Panel (SDRP). The panel had ruled in May, 2006 under the terms of a contract, agreed by FIFA Executive Committee member and TTFF special adviser Jack Warner that the Soca Warriors were owed 50 per cent of all 2006 World Cup commercial revenue. But the TTFF claimed that a breach of confidentiality by the players meant they were no longer bound by the agreement. Attorneys for both sides return to court next Friday.
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kamla and anil will NEVER investigate that. Dem is jack puppets
:beermug:
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Jack won't get away with this "nothing to do with me" stance. He was the officer in charge of LOC 2006. Thats why the judge purposely wants BOTH sets of accounts! Camps is ultimately responsible as TTFF/TTFA owned LOC. But any wrongdoing in LOC is down to Jack.
He's right about one thing...they should have settled a long time ago because history comes back and bites you.
Jack sat with the players in late 2006 with his spreadsheet and said "you only get TT$5,000 each" That document is not only filed as evidence, but the judge has indicated that it was not accurate. That is down to Jack and only Jack.
He's panicking because he knows his political future hangs by a thread and so does the PP govt. If one cent went into an account controlled by Jack and one cent went to PP election campaign, govt must resign.
This judge is going for the throat. He's after Jack. Really huge consequences here.
Also, whats this rubbish about players asking for $100 million? Thats sladerous. So too, is naming Shaka & George Hislop as the "one man"fighting this case.
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allyuh aint see wha play out dey.....mr man blaming it on he shield....so he aint look like ah accessory to d cause....
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If yuh bide yuh time, good will always triumph over evil. Nuff respect to the forumites who stuck with supporting the warriors and countering the arguments by those who had a defeatist mentality or other agendas (intentional or unintentional) that somehow managed to transiently shift the balance of power and leverage in favour of Scamps, Grodent, Jackula and their cronies. Big big triumph.
Landmark day.
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This is indeed a proud day for this site. You remember back in 2007 when it was the forumites who tracked down the $188 million? Before you guys got involved, the players had no idea how much was involved. That led directly to Lasanas famous "Bobol" story.
So hold your heads high guys, this is your victory too. :beermug: :beermug:
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This is indeed a proud day for this site. You remember back in 2007 when it was the forumites who tracked down the $188 million? Before you guys got involved, the players had no idea how much was involved. That led directly to Lasanas famous "Bobol" story.
So hold your heads high guys, this is your victory too. :beermug: :beermug:
EMANNNNNNNNN :applause: :salute:
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allyuh aint see wha play out dey.....mr man blaming it on he shield....so he aint look like ah accessory to d cause....
yup, he have no shame
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You mean after all this time, with 2 lawyers the TTFA gone to court without out the appropriate documents in the right format? :waiting:
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Alright ah could finally comment. Busy days nah, fete after fete thing.... ;D
Lawd I eh know where to start.....well first let mih buss ah wine and wave mih rag..... :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :flamethrower: :flamethrower: :flamethrower: :flamethrower: :flamethrower: :flamethrower: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel:
Then let me say to the brave 13.... :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
As for Jackula, Scamps and the Rodent.....take dis.... :whip: :flamethrower: :flamethrower: :busshead: :shameonyou: :puking:
For the rats dat jump ship, yes even Birchy (no Tallman I eh helping to pay nutten). Hey Theobald, was the captain's armband worth it?? Steups!!! all ah all yuh take dis..... :puking: :flamethrower: :busshead: :duel: :busshead:
Whey diamondtrim?? Yuh keyboard stick??!! Take dis.... :busshead: :flamethrower: :whip:
I'm a little disappointed the judge didn't order more but ah taking it yes.....let mih buss ah next wine.... :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :party: :party: :party: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Aye Tallman de forum need ah wining emoticon.... ;D
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$7m for Soca Warriors
By Denyse Renne (T&T Express)
He said initially there were 16 players contesting the suit, but three of them—Marvin Andrews, Chris Birchall and Ian Cox—withdrew from the suit. Rampersad ordered that they pay their own costs.
De judge nearly kill mih with this move.....all yuh want to jump ship. Alright, take shaft..... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
It good for dem!!!! De thirty pieces ah silver dey get goh have to pay lawyer fees now. Ah guess dey could always get Uncle Jackie to pay it for dem.....oh laaawwwwddd ah love it!!!
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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When the money in the players bank accounts then I will believe the hype !!!!!!!!!
Jack Warner is ah evil boss, allyuh remember that.
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$7m for Soca Warriors
By Denyse Renne (T&T Express)
He said initially there were 16 players contesting the suit, but three of them—Marvin Andrews, Chris Birchall and Ian Cox—withdrew from the suit. Rampersad ordered that they pay their own costs.
De judge nearly kill mih with this move.....all yuh want to jump ship. Alright, take shaft..... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
It good for dem!!!! De thirty pieces ah silver dey get goh have to pay lawyer fees now. Ah guess dey could always get Uncle Jackie to pay it for dem.....oh laaawwwwddd ah love it!!!
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
If they were not parties to the suit... I trying to figure out what costs they have to pay?
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You mean after all this time, with 2 lawyers the TTFA gone to court without out the appropriate documents in the right format? :waiting:
Tactics. And it work. Now they get even more time to hide the money
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Maybe the judge needs to call in a forensic accountant to find out whose name were on the checks from FIFA and Adidas.........question is if Jack is only the special adviser, is he allowed to receive money on behalf of the TTFF? If he loaned money to the TTFF in the sums of millions there must be some sort of written agreement? Who made that decision? The board ? and if so they must have some sort of minutes of that decision.
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You mean after all this time, with 2 lawyers the TTFA gone to court without out the appropriate documents in the right format? :waiting:
Tactics. And it work. Now they get even more time to hide the money
It eh have no more money 2 hide it had 2 general election since d 2006 WC. D money he get from Russia and Qatar will pay d players
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$7m for Soca Warriors
By Denyse Renne (T&T Express)
He said initially there were 16 players contesting the suit, but three of them—Marvin Andrews, Chris Birchall and Ian Cox—withdrew from the suit. Rampersad ordered that they pay their own costs.
De judge nearly kill mih with this move.....all yuh want to jump ship. Alright, take shaft..... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
It good for dem!!!! De thirty pieces ah silver dey get goh have to pay lawyer fees now. Ah guess dey could always get Uncle Jackie to pay it for dem.....oh laaawwwwddd ah love it!!!
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
If they were not parties to the suit... I trying to figure out what costs they have to pay?
They were parties to the suit for 3 years, including the arbitration in London. Judge say they should have informed their lawyers officially that they had settled so their names could be removed. Although I feel vexed that they settled, each man has to make his own decisions in life and then live with the consequences. I wish them no ill, but their failure (for whatever reason) to stick with the case could have caused a loss for everyone else. TTFF's tactics were to divide and conquer. If the case had been reduced to 11 players, TTFF could have argued that the majority of players were happy to settle out of court and the case be closed.
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$7m for Soca Warriors
By Denyse Renne (T&T Express)
He said initially there were 16 players contesting the suit, but three of them—Marvin Andrews, Chris Birchall and Ian Cox—withdrew from the suit. Rampersad ordered that they pay their own costs.
De judge nearly kill mih with this move.....all yuh want to jump ship. Alright, take shaft..... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
It good for dem!!!! De thirty pieces ah silver dey get goh have to pay lawyer fees now. Ah guess dey could always get Uncle Jackie to pay it for dem.....oh laaawwwwddd ah love it!!!
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
If they were not parties to the suit... I trying to figure out what costs they have to pay?
They were parties to the suit for 3 years, including the arbitration in London. Judge say they should have informed their lawyers officially that they had settled so their names could be removed. Although I feel vexed that they settled, each man has to make his own decisions in life and then live with the consequences. I wish them no ill, but their failure (for whatever reason) to stick with the case could have caused a loss for everyone else. TTFF's tactics were to divide and conquer. If the case had been reduced to 11 players, TTFF could have argued that the majority of players were happy to settle out of court and the case be closed.
Thank God it only had 3 traitors of the 16 but 7 in all. I hope they feelin shorter than a midget in a pothole.
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$7m for Soca Warriors
By Denyse Renne (T&T Express)
He said initially there were 16 players contesting the suit, but three of them—Marvin Andrews, Chris Birchall and Ian Cox—withdrew from the suit. Rampersad ordered that they pay their own costs.
De judge nearly kill mih with this move.....all yuh want to jump ship. Alright, take shaft..... :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
It good for dem!!!! De thirty pieces ah silver dey get goh have to pay lawyer fees now. Ah guess dey could always get Uncle Jackie to pay it for dem.....oh laaawwwwddd ah love it!!!
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
If they were not parties to the suit... I trying to figure out what costs they have to pay?
They were part of the initial action so what they owe will have to pro-rated based on when they withdrew and the overall value of the legal representation recieved.
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They were parties to the suit for 3 years, including the arbitration in London. Judge say they should have informed their lawyers officially that they had settled so their names could be removed.
They were part of the initial action so what they owe will have to pro-rated based on when they withdrew and the overall value of the legal representation recieved.
That's not a determination for a judge to make, that's between them and their attorney, specifically for their attorney to bill them for any services rendered. Only time a court gets involved in awarding fees is when the loser of the litigation must pay the fees of the winner... not between a party and their attorney. I don't have an issue with the judge's ruling... I just find it very bizarre. If I stiff my attorney for fees owed it's up to the attorney to sue me for payment in a separate proceeding, not for the judge to decide it in a matter where payment was not at issue.
If the case had been reduced to 11 players, TTFF could have argued that the majority of players were happy to settle out of court and the case be closed.
Not quite... even if 15 of the 16 had settled, that 1 holdout was still entitled to a judgment on the merits... especially since the SDRP had already ruled in the favor of the players.
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I hear yuh, Bakes, but my point was that if there were less than 11 players remaining, TTFF could use this as an argument to impede or delay the process. I'm sure there are precedents both ways. But I agree, the case could still be won. But those players choosing to settle didn't know that!
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I hear yuh, Bakes, but my point was that if there were less than 11 players remaining, TTFF could use this as an argument to impede or delay the process. I'm sure there are precedents both ways. But I agree, the case could still be won. But those players choosing to settle didn't know that!
Yeah... kudos to the players for toughing it out, seemingly against all odds. There was little indication that they would succeed even after the early favorable rulings from the SDRP et al. I imagine it was also unsettling to see Jack elevated into government on top of it all... I know it was for me. Didn't seem to bode well for them that he would now have this added influence. I think Fazeer's article put it best... it remains to be seen now what Anil Roberts will have to say with regards to the continued waste of public funds on the TTFF. Gary Hunt was correct all along, he was a businessman first and a fan second and that didn't win him any fans. Come to find out that that is precisely the type of person we needed to be watching the TTFF accounts all along.
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May 16 update.
I heard from a realiable source that the TTFF have sent a cheque for 2 million TT instead of $1.1 U.S. Also they have not agreed to the players negotiated offer.
The players will be sending out a very hard hitting press release in the morning if this is not resolved, calling for Jack to be sacked as minister. TTFF and, by extention, Warner will be in contempt of court. How can a minister disrespect the high court?
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May 16 update.
I heard from a realiable source that the TTFF have sent a cheque for 2 million TT instead of $1.1 U.S. Also they have not agreed to the players negotiated offer.
WOW! SHAMELESS
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May 16 update.
I heard from a realiable source that the TTFF have sent a cheque for 2 million TT instead of $1.1 U.S. Also they have not agreed to the players negotiated offer.
The players will be sending out a very hard hitting press release in the morning if this is not resolved, calling for Jack to be sacked as minister. TTFF and, by extention, Warner will be in contempt of court. How can a minister disrespect the high court?
Unless I'm mistaken... he hasn't been personally found liable, so it's all on the TTFF, this is the reason why you incorporate in the first place. Any attorney worth his salt could reach Jack's personal assets in this case though, and I'm sure Mike Townley readying his briefs as we speak.
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May 16 update.
I heard from a realiable source that the TTFF have sent a cheque for 2 million TT instead of $1.1 U.S. Also they have not agreed to the players negotiated offer.
The players will be sending out a very hard hitting press release in the morning if this is not resolved, calling for Jack to be sacked as minister. TTFF and, by extention, Warner will be in contempt of court. How can a minister disrespect the high court?
Unless I'm mistaken... he hasn't been personally found liable, so it's all on the TTFF, this is the reason why you incorporate in the first place. Any attorney worth his salt could reach Jack's personal assets in this case though, and I'm sure Mike Townley readying his briefs as we speak.
Why am I not surprised!? ::)
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These guys have done their part. It's time for the so-called leaders of the country to do theirs. A public that continues to allow stewards of national institutions, political, and business leaders to abuse their power with impunity deserves that level of leadership.
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:puking: :puking:
God doh sleep!!!
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From 5000 a man to 2mil. But guess what it eh enuff.
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Not even close to being enough. At that 2m payment, the players who settled before would have received more whe you consider the legal bills and the amount divided 13 ways.
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the original 1.1million is for each player or to be split among 13 players?
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May 16 update.
I heard from a realiable source that the TTFF have sent a cheque for 2 million TT instead of $1.1 U.S. Also they have not agreed to the players negotiated offer.
The players will be sending out a very hard hitting press release in the morning if this is not resolved, calling for Jack to be sacked as minister. TTFF and, by extention, Warner will be in contempt of court. How can a minister disrespect the high court?
Unless I'm mistaken... he hasn't been personally found liable, so it's all on the TTFF, this is the reason why you incorporate in the first place. Any attorney worth his salt could reach Jack's personal assets in this case though, and I'm sure Mike Townley readying his briefs as we speak.
True, he hasn't personally been found liable. However, he is a named defendent in this case and the defendents have acted in contempt of court. Mr Warner could have written to the court as an individual and made a case that he wanted to comply but TTFF refused. He also could have made a public statement saying that as a government minister he would always uphold the law when this is within his power, but as a co defendent this decision was not his.
Of course, in reality this is probably exactly opposite what happened as Camps will probably struggle financially more than Jack if assets are seized! However you view it, directly or indirectly, Jack is in contempt.
Bakes, you may be clearer on what happens next, but as I understand it, in a contempt of court issue surrounding non payments, I believe the judge can redirect any monies received by, or on behalf of, the defendent. In which case, Mr Pfisters $300,000 p.m. may be seized? If so, we will have a huge issue. How can Ministry of Sport cut Pfisters salary payment? It has been agreed over 3 years. Thats roughly $10 million. Technically, Anil will have to keep paying it, TTFF will incur a debt to Pfister of $300,000 p.m and be in breach of contract. This just gets more interesting!
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the original 1.1million is for each player or to be split among 13 players?
1.1 million US
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True, he hasn't personally been found liable. However, he is a named defendent in this case and the defendents have acted in contempt of court. Mr Warner could have written to the court as an individual and made a case that he wanted to comply but TTFF refused. He also could have made a public statement saying that as a government minister he would always uphold the law when this is within his power, but as a co defendent this decision was not his.
Of course, in reality this is probably exactly opposite what happened as Camps will probably struggle financially more than Jack if assets are seized! However you view it, directly or indirectly, Jack is in contempt.
Bakes, you may be clearer on what happens next, but as I understand it, in a contempt of court issue surrounding non payments, I believe the judge can redirect any monies received by, or on behalf of, the defendent. In which case, Mr Pfisters $300,000 p.m. may be seized? If so, we will have a huge issue. How can Ministry of Sport cut Pfisters salary payment? It has been agreed over 3 years. Thats roughly $10 million. Technically, Anil will have to keep paying it, TTFF will incur a debt to Pfister of $300,000 p.m and be in breach of contract. This just gets more interesting!
The thing is though... even as a named defendant, he was a party to the action stemming from his role as agent of the TTFF, so under an agency theory of liability, the principal in the relationship (the TTFF) is responsible for the official actions of the agent (Jack) acting with authority and within the scope of his authority. Obviously I'm not as privy to the details of the litigation as you guys there on the ground... but correct me if I'm wrong, the TTFF never tried to argue that Jack was NOT its agent, or that he was its agent BUT acted outside the scope of his authority in entering the agreement with the players on the behalf of the TTFF. So what it boils down to is that the TTFF and not him personally, is liable for the payments. Note that the judge never asked Jack Warner to open up his private finances to scrutiny, he just asked the TTFF to open up its books. This is a clear indication as to where the payment is expected to come from.
Now there are two possible ways to get to Jack's personal finances... I don't need to bore folks with the details, but if there has been commingling of TTFF funds and Jack's personal finances (and we all know this to be the case) then the fact that the TTFF was a separate corporate entity wouldn't shield Jack from liability. Same if TTFF funds were misdirected, misappropriated or otherwise paid out to Jack in sums not justifiable as reasonable compensation for his role as "special advisor".
I really don't think Pfister's salary would be affected... unless the TTFF declares bankruptcy, in which case he then has to stand in line like any other creditor to get his money from them. Should that happen, like you suggest... I could see Anil stepping in and authorizing his salary payments... while the players would continue to suck salt, b/c you KNOW Anil not paying them.
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the original 1.1million is for each player or to be split among 13 players?
1.1 million US
@ Nightmare, to be split among the 13 players......
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wasn't yesterday the big day for revelations on this case?
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Watch this space.......TTFF playing games again and not complying with the court order!!
You not see Flex's post?
May 16 update.
I heard from a realiable source that the TTFF have sent a cheque for 2 million TT instead of $1.1 U.S. Also they have not agreed to the players negotiated offer.
The players will be sending out a very hard hitting press release in the morning if this is not resolved, calling for Jack to be sacked as minister. TTFF and, by extention, Warner will be in contempt of court. How can a minister disrespect the high court?
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TTFF withdraws appeal against Warriors
Published: Mon, 2011-05-16 23:30
Derek Achong
The T&T Football Federation (TTFF) was yesterday granted leave to withdraw its appeal against an order for it to uphold an agreement to pay 16 members of the 2006 T&T World Cup squad bonuses and legal costs. A TTFF official said the move to withdraw the appeal was in good faith but declined to comment further. The matter was heard in the Court of Appeal before Justice Paula Mae-Weekes in closed chamber court.
In September 2010, High Court Justice Davindra Rampersad enforced the judgment of the London-based Sport Dispute Resolution Panel (SDRP) on the matter. The SDRP in its ruling on May 19, 2008, recognised a contract made by Works and Transport Minister and TTFF Special Adviser Jack Warner with the players. The SDRP held that the ‘Soca Warriors’ were owed 50 per cent of all 2006 World Cup commercial revenue and declared an immediate independent audit of the local football body's financial books for that period.
The players included Shaka Hislop, Kelvin Jack, Atiba Charles, Cyd Gray, Ian Cox, Brent Sancho, Aurtis Whitley, Collin Samuel, Evans Wise, Anthony Wolfe, Cornell Glen, Kenwyne Jones and Stern John. The TTFF were represented by Balliram and Om Lalla, while attorney Dave De Peiza represented the group.
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Watch this space.......TTFF playing games again and not complying with the court order!!
You not see Flex's post?
May 16 update.
I heard from a realiable source that the TTFF have sent a cheque for 2 million TT instead of $1.1 U.S. Also they have not agreed to the players negotiated offer.
The players will be sending out a very hard hitting press release in the morning if this is not resolved, calling for Jack to be sacked as minister. TTFF and, by extention, Warner will be in contempt of court. How can a minister disrespect the high court?
Me eh want no hard hitting press release d press in TNT is a WASTE. I want to see the Baliff truck on Donald St.
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True, he hasn't personally been found liable. However, he is a named defendent in this case and the defendents have acted in contempt of court. Mr Warner could have written to the court as an individual and made a case that he wanted to comply but TTFF refused. He also could have made a public statement saying that as a government minister he would always uphold the law when this is within his power, but as a co defendent this decision was not his.
Of course, in reality this is probably exactly opposite what happened as Camps will probably struggle financially more than Jack if assets are seized! However you view it, directly or indirectly, Jack is in contempt.
Bakes, you may be clearer on what happens next, but as I understand it, in a contempt of court issue surrounding non payments, I believe the judge can redirect any monies received by, or on behalf of, the defendent. In which case, Mr Pfisters $300,000 p.m. may be seized? If so, we will have a huge issue. How can Ministry of Sport cut Pfisters salary payment? It has been agreed over 3 years. Thats roughly $10 million. Technically, Anil will have to keep paying it, TTFF will incur a debt to Pfister of $300,000 p.m and be in breach of contract. This just gets more interesting!
The thing is though... even as a named defendant, he was a party to the action stemming from his role as agent of the TTFF, so under an agency theory of liability, the principal in the relationship (the TTFF) is responsible for the official actions of the agent (Jack) acting with authority and within the scope of his authority. Obviously I'm not as privy to the details of the litigation as you guys there on the ground... but correct me if I'm wrong, the TTFF never tried to argue that Jack was NOT its agent, or that he was its agent BUT acted outside the scope of his authority in entering the agreement with the players on the behalf of the TTFF. So what it boils down to is that the TTFF and not him personally, is liable for the payments. Note that the judge never asked Jack Warner to open up his private finances to scrutiny, he just asked the TTFF to open up its books. This is a clear indication as to where the payment is expected to come from.
Now there are two possible ways to get to Jack's personal finances... I don't need to bore folks with the details, but if there has been commingling of TTFF funds and Jack's personal finances (and we all know this to be the case) then the fact that the TTFF was a separate corporate entity wouldn't shield Jack from liability. Same if TTFF funds were misdirected, misappropriated or otherwise paid out to Jack in sums not justifiable as reasonable compensation for his role as "special advisor".
I really don't think Pfister's salary would be affected... unless the TTFF declares bankruptcy, in which case he then has to stand in line like any other creditor to get his money from them. Should that happen, like you suggest... I could see Anil stepping in and authorizing his salary payments... while the players would continue to suck salt, b/c you KNOW Anil not paying them.
I appreciate the analysis Bakes. You really break it down there.
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Any further update??
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Any further update??
No d baliff eh reach by dem yet
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Where is the press release from the players?
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I heard they may settle....
If they settle, options will not be available anymore as far as the TTFF opening their books...
Furthermore, if the TTFF say, they will pay and then cry broke, the players could be in trouble....
Who paying these players, Jack name was called, but not the man being sued...
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I heard they may settle....
If they settle, options will not be available anymore as far as the TTFF opening their books...
Furthermore, if the TTFF say, they will pay and then cry broke, the players could be in trouble....
Who paying these players, Jack name was called, but not the man being sued...
Hmmm, why settle if the goal is to get the full amount due to you and to bring about transparency, accountability and positive change in the TTFF?
I am sure Camps and Jack have assets that can be seized if the TTFF cries broke! ;)
This is the final important chess move that the players need to have the balls to make if they seriously want to bring about change!
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I hope these players is not making any settlement with TTFF untill the open them books and we see figures
why they cannot pay all of the monies ,Dont give up doh surrender make them suck salt .
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If there are no winners what's next?this thing going on too long,settle the damn thing and call that George. :beermug:
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It would be good if they would not settle as they have the upper hand. If man have to desperately eat a food and cyah wait, then do what yuh mus' do. If choosing to settle, hit Scamps and them hard so that they feel it and cause heads to roll.
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The only settlement the black listed players should take along with the monies they getting is if Jack and Jill and all the others in TTFF who do not have our country men and corntree at heart stepping down , when you on top stay on top .Dont give up, dont surrender .
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It would be good if they would not settle as they have the upper hand. If man have to desperately eat a food and cyah wait, then do what yuh mus' do. If choosing to settle, hit Scamps and them hard so that they feel it and cause heads to roll.
They have the upper hand?as far as i see it they eh have no hand,that's why they have to settle.
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The only settlement the black listed players should take along with the monies they getting is if Jack and Jill and all the others in TTFF who do not have our country men and corntree at heart stepping down , when you on top stay on top .Dont give up, dont surrender .
Dem fellas tired so if dey take d money and run me eh go b vex wit dem. Open d books yeh would benefit d next generation of footballers who eh have d balls 2 join FPATT. So nutten eh goin and change if d books open. In fact d books eh goin and open.
My sources say d settlement is hinge on x happening. if x eh happen no settlement. So come May 31st they go back 2 court and d TTFF will go wit dey Mickey Mouse books and d judge rule wit d figure presented by the players which this site help dem identify.
So Eman take a :applause:
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It would be good if they would not settle as they have the upper hand. If man have to desperately eat a food and cyah wait, then do what yuh mus' do. If choosing to settle, hit Scamps and them hard so that they feel it and cause heads to roll.
Dreamer,
I would love if the accounts of the TTFF are laid bare for all and sundry but its been a loooooonnnnggggg brusing battle. (Isn't it sad that its taking a court case for the books to be open?? But that's another kettle of fish). I'm fed up and I have nothing to gain from the whole debacle so imagine the 13 players who are duking it out with the TTFF/Jack.....
Brent, in an interview on I95.5 fm on Sunday said that if he had to do it all over again knowing this battle loomed ahead of him he wouldn't. The whole thing has scared his memory of what is/was his most memorable footballing occasion i.e. playing in a World Cup final.......try to get the mental on that picture Dreamer and try to put yourself in these players shoes and then you might appreciate better why a settlement may be the best route.
I, like Weary, would be very happy with a substantial payment becuase it would have been the first time ANYBODY stood up to Jack/TTFF and went toe to toe and won.....in fact I'm happy already that they have stayed the course and yes, I'm saying it again.....they will always be my personal heroes......
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It would be good if they would not settle as they have the upper hand. If man have to desperately eat a food and cyah wait, then do what yuh mus' do. If choosing to settle, hit Scamps and them hard so that they feel it and cause heads to roll.
Brent, in an interview on I95.5 fm on Sunday said that if he had to do it all over again knowing this battle loomed ahead of him he wouldn't. The whole thing has scared his memory of what is/was his most memorable footballing occasion i.e. playing in a World Cup final.......try to get the mental on that picture Dreamer and try to put yourself in these players shoes and then you might appreciate better why a settlement may be the best route.
Why come this far to settle ? 1)they still might not be getting paid what they owe ...2) the ttff books eh go be opening 30 no transparency
them guys could bring down this federation with this case ...
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It would be good if they would not settle as they have the upper hand. If man have to desperately eat a food and cyah wait, then do what yuh mus' do. If choosing to settle, hit Scamps and them hard so that they feel it and cause heads to roll.
Brent, in an interview on I95.5 fm on Sunday said that if he had to do it all over again knowing this battle loomed ahead of him he wouldn't. The whole thing has scared his memory of what is/was his most memorable footballing occasion i.e. playing in a World Cup final.......try to get the mental on that picture Dreamer and try to put yourself in these players shoes and then you might appreciate better why a settlement may be the best route.
Why come this far to settle ? 1)they still might not be getting paid what they owe ...2) the ttff books eh go be opening 30 no transparency
them guys could bring down this federation with this case ...
Pls enlighten meh how the federation could fall because of this case?
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It would be good if they would not settle as they have the upper hand. If man have to desperately eat a food and cyah wait, then do what yuh mus' do. If choosing to settle, hit Scamps and them hard so that they feel it and cause heads to roll.
Brent, in an interview on I95.5 fm on Sunday said that if he had to do it all over again knowing this battle loomed ahead of him he wouldn't. The whole thing has scared his memory of what is/was his most memorable footballing occasion i.e. playing in a World Cup final.......try to get the mental on that picture Dreamer and try to put yourself in these players shoes and then you might appreciate better why a settlement may be the best route.
Why come this far to settle ? 1)they still might not be getting paid what they owe ...2) the ttff books eh go be opening 30 no transparency
them guys could bring down this federation with this case ...
They could bring down the federation and Jack start a new one..TTFY (T&T F**k You). :rotfl: Yeah, the judge could seize assets, but that could take another 5 years. Their offer was under $5,000 in 2006. If they now settle for, say, $50,000 thats 10 x what they would have got. If they get $500,000 each, its 100 x the original offer. No player outside the 13 has ever supported them. Local players wouldn't join FPATT. So, why the hell should they risk a lump some and a massive victory? Personally, if they get the interim payment, I would fight on, as this will give them more than they were originally offered. BUT, I would not settle for any amount with TTFF if they included a confidentiality clause because a)they would leak details and blame players and b) we all deserve to know the real truth of this story.
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It would be good if they would not settle as they have the upper hand. If man have to desperately eat a food and cyah wait, then do what yuh mus' do. If choosing to settle, hit Scamps and them hard so that they feel it and cause heads to roll.
Brent, in an interview on I95.5 fm on Sunday said that if he had to do it all over again knowing this battle loomed ahead of him he wouldn't. The whole thing has scared his memory of what is/was his most memorable footballing occasion i.e. playing in a World Cup final.......try to get the mental on that picture Dreamer and try to put yourself in these players shoes and then you might appreciate better why a settlement may be the best route.
Why come this far to settle ? 1)they still might not be getting paid what they owe ...2) the ttff books eh go be opening 30 no transparency
them guys could bring down this federation with this case ...
They could bring down the federation and Jack start a new one..TTFY (T&T F**k You). :rotfl: Yeah, the judge could seize assets, but that could take another 5 years. Their offer was under $5,000 in 2006. If they now settle for, say, $50,000 thats 10 x what they would have got. If they get $500,000 each, its 100 x the original offer. No player outside the 13 has ever supported them. Local players wouldn't join FPATT. So, why the hell should they risk a lump some and a massive victory? Personally, if they get the interim payment, I would fight on, as this will give them more than they were originally offered. BUT, I would not settle for any amount with TTFF if they included a confidentiality clause because a)they would leak details and blame players and b) we all deserve to know the real truth of this story.
As sure as my name is weary1969 it having a confidentiality clause other wise d players can visit the Fraud Squad wit the info they have at present.
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It would be good if they would not settle as they have the upper hand. If man have to desperately eat a food and cyah wait, then do what yuh mus' do. If choosing to settle, hit Scamps and them hard so that they feel it and cause heads to roll.
Brent, in an interview on I95.5 fm on Sunday said that if he had to do it all over again knowing this battle loomed ahead of him he wouldn't. The whole thing has scared his memory of what is/was his most memorable footballing occasion i.e. playing in a World Cup final.......try to get the mental on that picture Dreamer and try to put yourself in these players shoes and then you might appreciate better why a settlement may be the best route.
Why come this far to settle ? 1)they still might not be getting paid what they owe ...2) the ttff books eh go be opening 30 no transparency
them guys could bring down this federation with this case ...
They could bring down the federation and Jack start a new one..TTFY (T&T F**k You). :rotfl: Yeah, the judge could seize assets, but that could take another 5 years. Their offer was under $5,000 in 2006. If they now settle for, say, $50,000 thats 10 x what they would have got. If they get $500,000 each, its 100 x the original offer. No player outside the 13 has ever supported them. Local players wouldn't join FPATT. So, why the hell should they risk a lump some and a massive victory? Personally, if they get the interim payment, I would fight on, as this will give them more than they were originally offered. BUT, I would not settle for any amount with TTFF if they included a confidentiality clause because a)they would leak details and blame players and b) we all deserve to know the real truth of this story.
As sure as my name is weary1969 it having a confidentiality clause other wise d players can visit the Fraud Squad wit the info they have at present.
Seeing as how dat eh yuh real name, should we be concerned? ;D
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It would be good if they would not settle as they have the upper hand. If man have to desperately eat a food and cyah wait, then do what yuh mus' do. If choosing to settle, hit Scamps and them hard so that they feel it and cause heads to roll.
They have the upper hand?as far as i see it they eh have no hand,that's why they have to settle.
Why do they HAVE to settle... the court done rule in their favor, it eh have nutten to "settle" again. Imagine I owing you money and the judge rule in your favor and say yes... the debt is legitimate. I now coming to you saying "leh we settle"... wouldn't you say "what kinda madness is that... pay me my money"?? The players should NOT settle at this point... settling is like pressing the reset button and we go right back to the status quo where TTFF getting taxpayers money and wasting it. Forcing them to open their books will bring the corrupt hierarchy to their knees and make them accountable.
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It would be good if they would not settle as they have the upper hand. If man have to desperately eat a food and cyah wait, then do what yuh mus' do. If choosing to settle, hit Scamps and them hard so that they feel it and cause heads to roll.
They have the upper hand?as far as i see it they eh have no hand,that's why they have to settle.
Why do they HAVE to settle... the court done rule in their favor, it eh have nutten to "settle" again. Imagine I owing you money and the judge rule in your favor and say yes... the debt is legitimate. I now coming to you saying "leh we settle"... wouldn't you say "what kinda madness is that... pay me my money"?? The players should NOT settle at this point... settling is like pressing the reset button and we go right back to the status quo where TTFF getting taxpayers money and wasting it. Forcing them to open their books will bring the corrupt hierarchy to their knees and make them accountable.
I with Bakes 100%! Why settle now when the court has already ruled in your favour?! That's plain dumb! :(
Show some balls my 2006 Warriors! Only a few more move patient chess moves and its checkmate!!
1. You get your interim payment!
2. TTFF opens its books.
3. You are awarded the balance due to you as calculated by the court.
4. TTFF claims they are broke but there is a money trail from the accounts that leads to you know who!
5. Camps resigns in disgrace.
6. His good buddy the advisor coughs up the money that was due to the 2006 warriors that he siphoned off.
7. The TTFF possibly changes its name and comes again as a new organisation, with transparency and accountability to us the fans and the T&T taxpayers.
8. A new era in T&T football is born and maybe the young players will now take inspiration and all join FPATT.
Hopefully the German will still be here thru all this but this is more important to the future of T&T football than the German being here! 8)
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Socapro & Bakes, I know you have some legal knowledge, but I think you're over simplifying this scenario.
So, Bakes, you owe me and my boys money and the court says you have to pay. But your bank account is empty. No worries...I'll take your house. But wait, the house is in your girlfriends name. Damn, now I have to go back to court to prove the link. Now I have to keep paying the lawyer who hasn't really been paid for 5 years. And I have to fly him across the globe 3 or 4 times a year. So, you tell your lawyer "Bro, just keep missing court dates and appealing. Drag this out another 5 years" Meanwhile, you know some of my friends have ended their careers and need a lil cash, so you buy off another 3 or 4. You also have a lot of local power and decide you will cause me and my boys in the country some grief. You know the kinda thing I'm talking about, maybe a tax inspection, maybe a health and safety visit to my workplace that I manage. If I'm not careful, no one will employ me because I bring trouble.
Now thats a bit extreme, but you know who they're up against here.
Socapro, so what happens if you don't get your interim payment? Maybe the judge will eventually force TTFF into bankruptcy, but like a zit on a teenager, they will appear in a different place with the same ugly head.
The judge wants the books investigated. Who's gonna do that? How is the investigation funded? You will surely need someone from UK or USA.
Lets say in 3 years time the investigation proves money was stolen. Then you have another 2-3 years minimum before it reaches court. The case takes maybe 2 years. The man is found guilty and is ordered to pay. Now you're in the Bakes scenario above. So, maybe the players could get their money in between 5-10 years from now.
Once the investigation is launched, no one needs to settle because it will be out of the players hands, even if they wanted to do a deal.
Maybe the players lawyer has explained this worse case scenario. Suddenly TT$100k or TT$200k or what ever their split will be, sounds mighty tempting. Problem is, TTFF know this too, so they now play hardball and try to force down the settlement figure. This vexes the players because they're seeing money disapearing and its really not fair, after all, they won, so why don't they have the upper hand? So you have 13 players and a lawyer all arguing about which is the best route. Maybe no one wants to settle, but common sense in some is fighting anger and frustration in others.
Of course, this is all just conjecture, but I really think this isn't as simple as we all believe. I've always felt that if the players get their interim payment they have to fight on. But of course, TTFF know that too, so if they can scare the players into making a deal, they get a result.
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Socapro & Bakes, I know you have some legal knowledge, but I think you're over simplifying this scenario.
So, Bakes, you owe me and my boys money and the court says you have to pay. But your bank account is empty. No worries...I'll take your house. But wait, the house is in your girlfriends name. Damn, now I have to go back to court to prove the link. Now I have to keep paying the lawyer who hasn't really been paid for 5 years. And I have to fly him across the globe 3 or 4 times a year. So, you tell your lawyer "Bro, just keep missing court dates and appealing. Drag this out another 5 years" Meanwhile, you know some of my friends have ended their careers and need a lil cash, so you buy off another 3 or 4. You also have a lot of local power and decide you will cause me and my boys in the country some grief. You know the kinda thing I'm talking about, maybe a tax inspection, maybe a health and safety visit to my workplace that I manage. If I'm not careful, no one will employ me because I bring trouble.
I will defer to whatever the lawyers actual litigating the case decide because they are closest to the situation and know what they're faced with. That said, no I am not at all simplifying the situation. One cannot dissolve a corporation slink away and incorporate under another name just to avoid one's obligation. I know a similar situation occurred when the TTFA became the TTFF, but this is not the same scenario as the TTFF here would be doing so to avoid the enforcement of a judicial decree... creditors would actually have the force of law on their side. Additionally, the TTFF has many assets, particularly real estate. Plus as I said, any lawyer worth his salt should be able to reach Jack Warner's assets. More than some legal knowledge, I actually know what I'm talking about here, with regards to options for securing the debt owed to the players.
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Socapro & Bakes, I know you have some legal knowledge, but I think you're over simplifying this scenario.
So, Bakes, you owe me and my boys money and the court says you have to pay. But your bank account is empty. No worries...I'll take your house. But wait, the house is in your girlfriends name. Damn, now I have to go back to court to prove the link. Now I have to keep paying the lawyer who hasn't really been paid for 5 years. And I have to fly him across the globe 3 or 4 times a year. So, you tell your lawyer "Bro, just keep missing court dates and appealing. Drag this out another 5 years" Meanwhile, you know some of my friends have ended their careers and need a lil cash, so you buy off another 3 or 4. You also have a lot of local power and decide you will cause me and my boys in the country some grief. You know the kinda thing I'm talking about, maybe a tax inspection, maybe a health and safety visit to my workplace that I manage. If I'm not careful, no one will employ me because I bring trouble.
I will defer to whatever the lawyers actual litigating the case decide because they are closest to the situation and know what they're faced with. That said, no I am not at all simplifying the situation. One cannot dissolve a corporation slink away and incorporate under another name just to avoid one's obligation. I know a similar situation occurred when the TTFA became the TTFF, but this is not the same scenario as the TTFF here would be doing so to avoid the enforcement of a judicial decree... creditors would actually have the force of law on their side. Additionally, the TTFF has many assets, particularly real estate. Plus as I said, any lawyer worth his salt should be able to reach Jack Warner's assets. More than some legal knowledge, I actually know what I'm talking about here, with regards to options for securing the debt owed to the players.
I agree with you that a lawyer can reach Warners assets, my point was that any lawyer worth his salt will use all of the legal delaying tactics at his disposal to make sure it takes years to resolve. Also, why are you so sure TTFF have assets? They moved offices recently and I bet they rent them! They don't own stadia or image rights (as far as I'm aware). I don't believe they own anything (at least on paper).
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Very productive and good discussion by Brownsugar, Bakes, Football supporter, Socapro, Weary, zulu and the whole crew. I hope this discussion helps the warriors in some small way to make smart moves in their interest that fairly reward them for their principle, guts and sacrifice and that the perpetrators of injustice are made to pay a very heavy painful price that will teach potential (re)exploiters in the future to think 10 times before ever trying it again and that it will embolden players to realize that they have more rights than just to be sitting ducks for abuse. TTFF cyah be allowed to move on unscathed. I also do wish to see a mechanism that forces the TTFF open their books or face paying massive fines. That's plenty leverage right there that should not be wasted and they are almost there. The remaining ballers need to keep unity. If in the long run, that means too much time for the socawarriors to go hungry, then we should have encouraged a serious fundraising with international donors to pay for them to withstand any stalling tactics or protracted court issues.
Good look Sancho, Jack, Shaka and posse. Whatevere you do, we're proud of you. Real proud as meany of us ccould not have had the guts.
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It would be good if they would not settle as they have the upper hand. If man have to desperately eat a food and cyah wait, then do what yuh mus' do. If choosing to settle, hit Scamps and them hard so that they feel it and cause heads to roll.
Brent, in an interview on I95.5 fm on Sunday said that if he had to do it all over again knowing this battle loomed ahead of him he wouldn't. The whole thing has scared his memory of what is/was his most memorable footballing occasion i.e. playing in a World Cup final.......try to get the mental on that picture Dreamer and try to put yourself in these players shoes and then you might appreciate better why a settlement may be the best route.
Why come this far to settle ? 1)they still might not be getting paid what they owe ...2) the ttff books eh go be opening 30 no transparency
them guys could bring down this federation with this case ...
They could bring down the federation and Jack start a new one..TTFY (T&T F**k You). :rotfl: Yeah, the judge could seize assets, but that could take another 5 years. Their offer was under $5,000 in 2006. If they now settle for, say, $50,000 thats 10 x what they would have got. If they get $500,000 each, its 100 x the original offer. No player outside the 13 has ever supported them. Local players wouldn't join FPATT. So, why the hell should they risk a lump some and a massive victory? Personally, if they get the interim payment, I would fight on, as this will give them more than they were originally offered. BUT, I would not settle for any amount with TTFF if they included a confidentiality clause because a)they would leak details and blame players and b) we all deserve to know the real truth of this story.
As sure as my name is weary1969 it having a confidentiality clause other wise d players can visit the Fraud Squad wit the info they have at present.
Seeing as how dat eh yuh real name, should we be concerned? ;D
No need 4 concern is meh alias after d players get dey money some concern citizen just need to ask d Fraud squad to investigate. D information is in d public domain via the courts. The settlement terms will be confidential but d Mickey Mouse books has been tendered into evidence. So all who want to see d death of d TTFF that will be your opportunity to get it done.
D players do enough some plant others water. Dem plant up a storm time for all d experts in these parts to bring down the TTFF.
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No need 4 concern is meh alias after d players get dey money some concern citizen just need to ask d Fraud squad to investigate. D information is in d public domain via the courts. The settlement terms will be confidential but d Mickey Mouse books has been tendered into evidence. So all who want to see d death of d TTFF that will be your opportunity to get it done.
D players do enough some plant others water. Dem plant up a storm time for all d experts in these parts to bring down the TTFF.
Weary are you saying that private citizens can request transcripts/information of the TTFF books/proceedings, find discrepancies, report this to police and a criminal investigation can then be initiated against TTFF officers/affiliates?
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I agree with you that a lawyer can reach Warners assets, my point was that any lawyer worth his salt will use all of the legal delaying tactics at his disposal to make sure it takes years to resolve. Also, why are you so sure TTFF have assets? They moved offices recently and I bet they rent them! They don't own stadia or image rights (as far as I'm aware). I don't believe they own anything (at least on paper).
Who owns the Dundonald Street property? The Marvin Lee Stdium? The Centre of Excellence? And what of this "delaying tactics" you reference?? Litigation is OVER, they can't delay enforcement of a court-ordered distribution of assets... what will they tell the judge "hold on, we'll get back to you"?? Earlier you mention the cost of having to fly Mike Townley across the Atlantic... isn't George Hislop an attorney? Do they NOT have local attorneys working on the litigation? I know they do, unless Mike Townley has been admitted to the TT Bar.
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No need 4 concern is meh alias after d players get dey money some concern citizen just need to ask d Fraud squad to investigate. D information is in d public domain via the courts. The settlement terms will be confidential but d Mickey Mouse books has been tendered into evidence. So all who want to see d death of d TTFF that will be your opportunity to get it done.
D players do enough some plant others water. Dem plant up a storm time for all d experts in these parts to bring down the TTFF.
Weary are you saying that private citizens can request transcripts/information of the TTFF books/proceedings, find discrepancies, report this to police and a criminal investigation can then be initiated against TTFF officers/affiliates?
I doh know what de ass Weary talking about, transcripts of the litigation is public information but the TTFF books are not.... the same books which mind you, they have yet to open to scrutiny. So you tell me, how can something that has not been disclosed to the court be in the public domain?
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No need 4 concern is meh alias after d players get dey money some concern citizen just need to ask d Fraud squad to investigate. D information is in d public domain via the courts. The settlement terms will be confidential but d Mickey Mouse books has been tendered into evidence. So all who want to see d death of d TTFF that will be your opportunity to get it done.
D players do enough some plant others water. Dem plant up a storm time for all d experts in these parts to bring down the TTFF.
Weary are you saying that private citizens can request transcripts/information of the TTFF books/proceedings, find discrepancies, report this to police and a criminal investigation can then be initiated against TTFF officers/affiliates?
YES but it will take a mountain of pressure for the police to do anything. If 1 person write 2 investigate u tink d police will take them on? I remember when d TTFF name change was planned we got winned of it we found d 5 MP's who were on the committee to investigate. I got evrybody I know to sign a letter and personally dropped them at Rienzi Complex and Balliser House. So the MP's ask for clarification re the name change per the accusation in the letter.
D TTFF never answered to the request for information and it lapsed. So if any investigation have to take place it cyah b 1 voice crying in the wilderness. I remember a while back somebody wanted to pay for an ad well we will need nuff ads if the police is to investigate what happen to the money from d 06 campaign.
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No need 4 concern is meh alias after d players get dey money some concern citizen just need to ask d Fraud squad to investigate. D information is in d public domain via the courts. The settlement terms will be confidential but d Mickey Mouse books has been tendered into evidence. So all who want to see d death of d TTFF that will be your opportunity to get it done.
D players do enough some plant others water. Dem plant up a storm time for all d experts in these parts to bring down the TTFF.
Weary are you saying that private citizens can request transcripts/information of the TTFF books/proceedings, find discrepancies, report this to police and a criminal investigation can then be initiated against TTFF officers/affiliates?
I doh know what de ass Weary talking about, transcripts of the litigation is public information but the TTFF books are not.... the same books which mind you, they have yet to open to scrutiny. So you tell me, how can something that has not been disclosed to the court be in the public domain?
But even if the books were presented to the courts, what would be the basis for fraud investigation besides missappropriation of government donated monies? And what is the likelihood of government pursuing any claims?
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No need 4 concern is meh alias after d players get dey money some concern citizen just need to ask d Fraud squad to investigate. D information is in d public domain via the courts. The settlement terms will be confidential but d Mickey Mouse books has been tendered into evidence. So all who want to see d death of d TTFF that will be your opportunity to get it done.
D players do enough some plant others water. Dem plant up a storm time for all d experts in these parts to bring down the TTFF.
Weary are you saying that private citizens can request transcripts/information of the TTFF books/proceedings, find discrepancies, report this to police and a criminal investigation can then be initiated against TTFF officers/affiliates?
I doh know what de ass Weary talking about, transcripts of the litigation is public information but the TTFF books are not.... the same books which mind you, they have yet to open to scrutiny. So you tell me, how can something that has not been disclosed to the court be in the public domain?
But even if the books were presented to the courts, what would be the basis for fraud investigation besides missappropriation of government donated monies? And what is the likelihood of government pursuing any claims?
As far as I am aware the police service is an independent body so they can investigate proceedings against anybody. Is not only gov't funds was misappropriated it would have been nice if KFC etal who gave money 2 ask where they money went but u know that is not happening.
D fact is the TTFF presented accounts which the judge say ehh eh come again. Come the 31st May they have 2 presnt a next set of books if not what the players say come in is what the final judgement would be made.
So ask Eman for the info as to how much money was collected include it in a letter for Gibbs to do an investigation and see what happen.
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YES but it will take a mountain of pressure for the police to do anything. If 1 person write 2 investigate u tink d police will take them on? I remember when d TTFF name change was planned we got winned of it we found d 5 MP's who were on the committee to investigate. I got evrybody I know to sign a letter and personally dropped them at Rienzi Complex and Balliser House. So the MP's ask for clarification re the name change per the accusation in the letter.
D TTFF never answered to the request for information and it lapsed. So if any investigation have to take place it cyah b 1 voice crying in the wilderness. I remember a while back somebody wanted to pay for an ad well we will need nuff ads if the police is to investigate what happen to the money from d 06 campaign.
I'm not on the ball where the legal situation is concerned. What would be the basis of a criminal fraud investigation.....misappropriation of funds, breaking legally binding contracts or both?
If what you are saying is correct I'll put my name to whatever documents or actions are needed to get charges laid.
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YES but it will take a mountain of pressure for the police to do anything. If 1 person write 2 investigate u tink d police will take them on? I remember when d TTFF name change was planned we got winned of it we found d 5 MP's who were on the committee to investigate. I got evrybody I know to sign a letter and personally dropped them at Rienzi Complex and Balliser House. So the MP's ask for clarification re the name change per the accusation in the letter.
D TTFF never answered to the request for information and it lapsed. So if any investigation have to take place it cyah b 1 voice crying in the wilderness. I remember a while back somebody wanted to pay for an ad well we will need nuff ads if the police is to investigate what happen to the money from d 06 campaign.
I'm not on the ball where the legal situation is concerned. What would be the basis of a criminal fraud investigation.....misappropriation of funds, breaking legally binding contracts or both?
If what you are saying is correct I'll put my name to whatever documents or actions are needed to get charges laid.
Breaking of the contract is a civil matter that is the players case they fighting now. The police would have to investigate conversion. Funds were collected for x but was used for a not even y
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I agree with you that a lawyer can reach Warners assets, my point was that any lawyer worth his salt will use all of the legal delaying tactics at his disposal to make sure it takes years to resolve. Also, why are you so sure TTFF have assets? They moved offices recently and I bet they rent them! They don't own stadia or image rights (as far as I'm aware). I don't believe they own anything (at least on paper).
Who owns the Dundonald Street property? The Marvin Lee Stdium? The Centre of Excellence? And what of this "delaying tactics" you reference?? Litigation is OVER, they can't delay enforcement of a court-ordered distribution of assets... what will they tell the judge "hold on, we'll get back to you"?? Earlier you mention the cost of having to fly Mike Townley across the Atlantic... isn't George Hislop an attorney? Do they NOT have local attorneys working on the litigation? I know they do, unless Mike Townley has been admitted to the TT Bar.
Well, I do feel you are arguing for the sake of arguing now Bakes. Whoever owns Dundonald St, it ain't TTFF. My guess is that FIFA or CONCACAF own Marvin Lee & C of E, but it ain't TTFF. The delaying tactics were what I referred to before. Once the court has ascertained the debt, TTFF will then go into bankruptcy and this will necessitate a period of time for creditors to present their requests. Then an independent body will list the creditors in order. Once total available funds have been assessed (which will probably be zero), the judge will be advised. He will then apportion leverage against TTFF officers, should he decide that gross financial mismanagement has occurred, or there is evidence of illegal activity. If its the first, he will order Camps assets to be seized, providing they are in his sole name. If theres evidence of illegal activity, the whole case will be handed over to the police for investigation. Should an arrest and prosecution take place, the defendents assets may be seized, providing they are in his name.
Now, Bakes, right there is maybe 5 years of work for you if you were TTFF, Camps or Warners lawyer. Am I wrong? You know full well that at every step, the defendents have rights to appeal on all manner of grounds, and they will.
Yes, George Hislop could represent the players interests. But with all due respect to George, he couldn't do this alone. Mike Townley is in the top 3 of global sports lawyers. You really think a local lawyer could have got this far, when no one has ever managed it before? Its not just about ability. Being local has its disadvantages in this instance.
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Well, I do feel you are arguing for the sake of arguing now Bakes. Whoever owns Dundonald St, it ain't TTFF. My guess is that FIFA or CONCACAF own Marvin Lee & C of E, but it ain't TTFF. The delaying tactics were what I referred to before. Once the court has ascertained the debt, TTFF will then go into bankruptcy and this will necessitate a period of time for creditors to present their requests. Then an independent body will list the creditors in order. Once total available funds have been assessed (which will probably be zero), the judge will be advised. He will then apportion leverage against TTFF officers, should he decide that gross financial mismanagement has occurred, or there is evidence of illegal activity. If its the first, he will order Camps assets to be seized, providing they are in his sole name. If theres evidence of illegal activity, the whole case will be handed over to the police for investigation. Should an arrest and prosecution take place, the defendents assets may be seized, providing they are in his name.
Now, Bakes, right there is maybe 5 years of work for you if you were TTFF, Camps or Warners lawyer. Am I wrong? You know full well that at every step, the defendents have rights to appeal on all manner of grounds, and they will.
Yes, George Hislop could represent the players interests. But with all due respect to George, he couldn't do this alone. Mike Townley is in the top 3 of global sports lawyers. You really think a local lawyer could have got this far, when no one has ever managed it before? Its not just about ability. Being local has its disadvantages in this instance.
The bolded is both silly and insulting, and with another person, might actually serve to chill the discussion. I also think it's ridiculous to ask whether "a local lawyer could have got this far, when no one has ever managed it before?" Has this situation ever arisen before?? Exactly what is the disadvantage in this instance of being local? This has nothing to do with expertise in sports law... that was at the arbitration stage. Once that ruling was secured this became nothing but routine litigation? Mike Townley could be at the top of the chain for all it matters but this post-arbitration litigation was not circumscribed to his area of expertise. Shit, I won't toot my own horns but go back and take a look at every legal argument that I've been making over the course of the past 3-4 years and see if it hasn't come to fruition. I'm not trying to say that I could have litigated the case b/c obviously I wasn't as close to the facts on the ground as others... but this was all a shell game, legal bluffing on the part of Om Lalla et al, and one needs not be an expert in sports law to undress the arguments and show that they lacked clothes to begin with.
If the Dundonald St. location and the Marvin Lee isn't listed as belonging to the TTFF then the matter shouldn't be conceded with a shrug of the shoulders... this is where the competent attorney would go to work on checking the titles... and running a title check of the TTFF Execs as well... all of this is public record and something that easily could be tasked to a paralegal. See what property used by the TTFF belongs to any of them. See what public funds were paid to them above and beyond what's reasonable and initiate action for recovery from them. Additionally, the TTFF might claim bankruptcy but bankruptcy isn't a permanent condition. Annual payments can be negotiated once a final amount is agreed upon... it doesn't have to all be one big lump sum... as well it could be. The players are in the driver's seat. Eventually the TTFF or a successor organization will be up, functional and profitable. We need to avoid thinking short term at times.
Or just accept the pittance being offered and go home.
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JACK TO ANSWER
The judge say Jack come 2 court in 2 weeks to answer. Check d thread about 2days court matter for more details.
MODS YUH GO MERGE LATER
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Anybody see Jack Horner ?
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This must be the only country in the world where a senior cabinet minister who has recently acted as Prime Minister can be implicated in court in a $100 million plus financial scandal and summoned to appear in that court, and it is reported as a sports item on the TV news.
As our good friend, Ian Alleyne would say...unbelievable.
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FS, the government threatening them media houses left, right and centre....what you expect??
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From a SWO insider....
Regarding the TTFF vs the 2006 WC players court case today where the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) and 16 (now 13) of their 2006 World Cup players wrangle over commercial revenue earned from the "Soca Warriors" historic qualification for the FIFA showcase tournament. Read More (http://www.socawarriors.net/mens-senior-team/9598-warner-to-be-served.html).....
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So wha allyuh saying? Dat Camps & Jack are not drinking partners anymore? :'(
Jackhorner, please say it isn't so nah?! :-\
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Flex, that TT $1.8 million is for all 13 players like the last time?? Ah glad the fellas getting money eh, but ah find de Judge moving kinda stingy.....
oh and "both interim payments" ?? As in the payment they got earlier this year would accrue interest too??
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This is the problem with having Om Lalla as counsel for both Jack and the TTFF... now that the two parties appear to be at odds the inherent conflict of interest becomes obvious. Given the relative abilities of the two parties to pay, it therefore shouldn't be difficult to figure out to whom Lalla was 'more loyal'.
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So we have seen it in our lifetime.
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This is the problem with having Om Lalla as counsel for both Jack and the TTFF... now that the two parties appear to be at odds the inherent conflict of interest becomes obvious. Given the relative abilities of the two parties to pay, it therefore shouldn't be difficult to figure out to whom Lalla was 'more loyal'.
Didn't Jack fire Om Lalla recently or did I hear wrong when I thought I heard that news? :-\
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This is the problem with having Om Lalla as counsel for both Jack and the TTFF... now that the two parties appear to be at odds the inherent conflict of interest becomes obvious. Given the relative abilities of the two parties to pay, it therefore shouldn't be difficult to figure out to whom Lalla was 'more loyal'.
Didn't Jack fire Om Lalla recently or did I hear wrong when I thought I heard that news? :-\
I thought I heard that too. Well, not that he was fired but that they had parted company.
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Flex, that TT $1.8 million is for all 13 players like the last time?? Ah glad the fellas getting money eh, but ah find de Judge moving kinda stingy.....
oh and "both interim payments" ?? As in the payment they got earlier this year would accrue interest too??
is 4.26 wit interest 2 b paid by Oct 11 fees also 2 b accessed on that day.
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So we have seen it in our lifetime.
Some say it would have neva happen but again I SAY Evil prevails when good men do nutten. So leh we once again salute d 13 heroes.
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Flex, that TT $1.8 million is for all 13 players like the last time?? Ah glad the fellas getting money eh, but ah find de Judge moving kinda stingy.....
oh and "both interim payments" ?? As in the payment they got earlier this year would accrue interest too??
is 4.26 wit interest 2 b paid by Oct 11 fees also 2 b accessed on that day.
$4.26 what?? Eh?? ??? ah confused more....
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Btw, where Jack Horner?? He suffered a nervous breakdown too??.....Paging Jack Horner, Paging Jack Horner.....we just making sure you eh collapse and dead nah. We need more jokers like you around to provide the kicks........
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Flex, that TT $1.8 million is for all 13 players like the last time?? Ah glad the fellas getting money eh, but ah find de Judge moving kinda stingy.....
oh and "both interim payments" ?? As in the payment they got earlier this year would accrue interest too??
is 4.26 wit interest 2 b paid by Oct 11 fees also 2 b accessed on that day.
$4.26 what?? Eh?? ??? ah confused more....
4.26 million TT dollars plus legal fees. Always remember this strt wit 5000 TT
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:beermug:
So we have seen it in our lifetime.
Some say it would have neva happen but again I SAY Evil prevails when good men do nutten. So leh we once again salute d 13 heroes.
:beermug:
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Didn't Jack fire Om Lalla recently or did I hear wrong when I thought I heard that news? :-\
I thought I heard that too. Well, not that he was fired but that they had parted company.
First I'm hearing of it...
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Flex, that TT $1.8 million is for all 13 players like the last time?? Ah glad the fellas getting money eh, but ah find de Judge moving kinda stingy.....
oh and "both interim payments" ?? As in the payment they got earlier this year would accrue interest too??
is 4.26 wit interest 2 b paid by Oct 11 fees also 2 b accessed on that day.
$4.26 what?? Eh?? ??? ah confused more....
4.26 million TT dollars plus legal fees. Always remember this strt wit 5000 TT
Ok Weary, bear with me eh.....I'm little slow today.....the article Flex posted said TT $1.8 million......and since I can't remember the amount they got earlier this year, does your TT $4.26 include the amount from earlier this year??
Didn't Jack fire Om Lalla recently or did I hear wrong when I thought I heard that news? :-\
I thought I heard that too. Well, not that he was fired but that they had parted company.
First I'm hearing of it...
I remember after the Judge handed down the first decisive ruling i.e. upholding the ruling of the arbitrator, Kelvin Ramkisson was told to throw he frame.....I some how think around that time Om Lalla did get pelt out too but I'm not sure.....
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Live and Direct from Inverness, Scotland
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I remember after the Judge handed down the first decisive ruling i.e. upholding the ruling of the arbitrator, Kelvin Ramkisson was told to throw he frame.....I some how think around that time Om Lalla did get pelt out too but I'm not sure.....
Well as recent as May he was flying out to Zurich wid Jack.... maybe the parting of ways came after that.
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Brown
1.8 million plus interest is why it is 4.26 million. This is another interim paqyment. D first one eh have nutten to do wit this. In addition legal fees have to be determined Oct 11 when d 4.26 million have 2 b paid.
Hope it helps
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Brown
1.8 million plus interest is why it is 4.26 million. This is another interim paqyment. D first one eh have nutten to do wit this. In addition legal fees have to be determined Oct 11 when d 4.26 million have 2 b paid.
Hope it helps
Is that 4.26 mil each, or in total?
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Brown
1.8 million plus interest is why it is 4.26 million. This is another interim paqyment. D first one eh have nutten to do wit this. In addition legal fees have to be determined Oct 11 when d 4.26 million have 2 b paid.
Hope it helps
Is that 4.26 mil each, or in total?
Total
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Didn't Jack fire Om Lalla recently or did I hear wrong when I thought I heard that news? :-\
I thought I heard that too. Well, not that he was fired but that they had parted company.
First I'm hearing of it...
I remember hearing it, too, but all I found is 'Football supporter' mentioned it here on Sept. 1 with no source.
http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=54320.msg764872#msg764872
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I can't recall where I heard that either! :cursing:
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So we have seen it in our lifetime.
Some say it would have neva happen but again I SAY Evil prevails when good men do nutten. So leh we once again salute d 13 heroes.
BOOM!!!!! :notworthy: :salute:
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I am surprise none of the T&T Press carry this news, thanks God for Flex report.
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I am surprise none of the T&T Press carry this news, thanks God for Flex report.
Sam, its no big deal. I mean, if a US Senator or UK Cabinet Minister was summoned to court concerning allegations that he was involved in the disappearance of $180 million and presenting 2 courts in 2 countries with incorrect accounts, I doubt the media would even notice, and I very much doubt they would be asked to resign to save their party and country unnecessary embarrassment. :bs:
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Anybody knows if the summons was served?? Weary, yuh know anybody in Court and Process Branch??
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Anybody knows if the summons was served?? Weary, yuh know anybody in Court and Process Branch??
:rotfl: I will have 2 check on both if it was served and if not who I can get 2 serve it.
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So wait the local media showing no interest this case ....
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http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=55110.0
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Anybody knows if the summons was served?? Weary, yuh know anybody in Court and Process Branch??
:rotfl: I will have 2 check on both if it was served and if not who I can get 2 serve it.
So wait the local media showing no interest this case ....
NO INTREST IS D UNDERSTATEMENT OF D YR
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So wait the local media showing no interest this case ....
Nah. Dey (the Guardian in particular) more interested in carrying a story about Jackula offering one of the scholarship winners a wuk....you know to keep up that "people's man" persona nah.....schupssss
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Jack was served on Friday and guess who accepted on his behalf? Om La La Lay. So much 4 dem falling out.
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Jack was served on Friday and guess who accepted on his behalf? Om La La Lay. So much 4 dem falling out.
The same Om Lala who sat next to McCormick who was defending TTFF/Camps when he basically blamed Jack for everything? So, if Lala is defending TTFF/Camps and they have now accused Warner of wrongdoing, which he would have been aware of before the court date, isn't this a conflict of interest?
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Jack was served on Friday and guess who accepted on his behalf? Om La La Lay. So much 4 dem falling out.
The same Om Lala who sat next to McCormick who was defending TTFF/Camps when he basically blamed Jack for everything? So, if Lala is defending TTFF/Camps and they have now accused Warner of wrongdoing, which he would have been aware of before the court date, isn't this a conflict of interest?
COI dat is 4 d judge 2 decide.
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Jack was served on Friday and guess who accepted on his behalf? Om La La Lay. So much 4 dem falling out.
The same Om Lala who sat next to McCormick who was defending TTFF/Camps when he basically blamed Jack for everything? So, if Lala is defending TTFF/Camps and they have now accused Warner of wrongdoing, which he would have been aware of before the court date, isn't this a conflict of interest?
COI dat is 4 d judge 2 decide.
Not necessarily. If your lawyer is representing someone you are in conflict with, you wouldn't want the possibility of your opponent knowing your moves. Also, how would you know if he's advising you in your best interests or those of your opponent. As I see it in this instance, it appears that Camps has laid all the blame at Warners feet to avoid any potential charges. I imagine Warner would want to fire shots back at Camps. How can Lalla independently advise both?
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Not necessarily. If your lawyer is representing someone you are in conflict with, you wouldn't want the possibility of your opponent knowing your moves. Also, how would you know if he's advising you in your best interests or those of your opponent. As I see it in this instance, it appears that Camps has laid all the blame at Warners feet to avoid any potential charges. I imagine Warner would want to fire shots back at Camps. How can Lalla independently advise both?
:beermug:
The TTFF needs to file a complaint with the Bar Association... if they're so motivated.
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From a SWO insider....
Regarding the TTFF vs the 2006 WC players court case today where the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) and 16 (now 13) of their 2006 World Cup players wrangle over commercial revenue earned from the "Soca Warriors" historic qualification for the FIFA showcase tournament. Read More (http://www.socawarriors.net/mens-senior-team/9598-warner-to-be-served.html).....
I can assure you that no press in T&T will cover this story, because it's bogus like Shaka Hislop and his boys.
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Guys, I just want to give you a quick message before I head to work.
Without being serve, the court case will be postponed again.
I would also like to add that the 06 Warriors will not be given a penny more then they already took.
Jack is acting PM no judge will dishonor such personnel, so expect a slap in the wrist.
Camps have deceived us and now he does not know how to run the federation.
Like it or not, Jack is still here and no one can stop him, not even FIFA.
I can assure you that FIFA does not care too much about what goes on locally in T&T.
Jack will raise again !!!!!
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Thanks for the news from the land of make believe Mr Horner.
Now the real news: I believe Warner was served on Friday. He doesn't have to attend court on Wednesday, its his perogotive. Of course, he can test the judge's temperament by not attending. However, this could result in him being arrested and imprisoned for contempt of court.
Acting PM is cool, however, the highest power in the land is the court system. Judge Rampersad trumps Kamla on this one.
The 06 Warriors haven't taken any money....they were awarded interim payments...twice. An interim payment is considered to be a partial payment in lieu of the actual full payment which is yet to be determined, but is usually far in excess of the interim.
Camps may have deceived you. Reminds me of the saying "no honour among thieves"
Like it or not, Jack is now at the mercy of the nations legal system which has far more power than FIFA.
Who gives a shit what FIFA think, this matter will be resolved in the high court. Theres a nice room waiting in Santa Rosa for your pal.
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Aye, aye look Jackula chile.....ah find yuh take long to respond. What happened?? You now wake up from your coma??
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Aye, aye look Jackula chile.....ah find yuh take long to respond. What happened?? You now wake up from your coma??
:yapping: :yapping: :yapping: :yawning: :yawning: :yawning:
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Guys, I just want to give you a quick message before I head to work.
Without being serve, the court case will be postponed again.
I would also like to add that the 06 Warriors will not be given a penny more then they already took.
Jack is acting PM no judge will dishonor such personnel, so expect a slap in the wrist.
Camps have deceived us and now he does not know how to run the federation.
Like it or not, Jack is still here and no one can stop him, not even FIFA.
I can assure you that FIFA does not care too much about what goes on locally in T&T.
Jack will raise again !!!!!
You have to be dumber than a bag of rocks.
everytime the players get awarded money you say they eh getting more than they been awarded. Daiz like hit meh nah, whadap!!, well hit meh harder and yuh go see, WHADAP, WHADAP in yuh rass!!!!!!
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Guys, I just want to give you a quick message before I head to work.
Without being serve, the court case will be postponed again.
I would also like to add that the 06 Warriors will not be given a penny more then they already took.
Jack is acting PM no judge will dishonor such personnel, so expect a slap in the wrist.
Camps have deceived us and now he does not know how to run the federation.
Like it or not, Jack is still here and no one can stop him, not even FIFA.
I can assure you that FIFA does not care too much about what goes on locally in T&T.
Jack will raise again !!!!!
You have to be dumber than a bag of rocks.
everytime the players get awarded money you say they eh getting more than they been awarded. Daiz like hit meh nah, whadap!!, well hit meh harder and yuh go see, WHADAP, WHADAP in yuh rass!!!!!!
Evry cent above $5000 is more money more money. So keep :yapping:
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FS are you serious with that comment or are you being facetious? In the US politicians had to step down from going for Presidency because of an illicit affair! You remember Hart?
With the US media that would have been hot news and they would have been on the case until the bitter end!
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FS are you serious with that comment or are you being facetious? In the US politicians had to step down from going for Presidency because of an illicit affair! You remember Hart?
With the US media that would have been hot news and they would have been on the case until the bitter end!
Not sure which comment you're asking about?
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2 weeks reach fast boy.....ent is today is Jackula's date with the court??
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2 weeks reach fast boy.....ent is today is Jackula's date with the court??
MOVE 2 D HEAD OFF D CLASS. LET'S C IF HE SEND OLA LA LAY WIT A SICK LEAVE. I hope d judge c him yday :yapping: when d budget was being read.
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Court starting 10:30 so lets see if d man appears.
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It's after 12 now, what is the 411. Let me tell you something Jack Yoda, I am wishing on a star that jail time follow you no matter where you are. :cursing: :yellowcard:
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It's after 12 now, what is the 411. Let me tell you something Jack Yoda, I am wishing on a star that jail time follow you no matter where you are. :cursing: :yellowcard:
Jack eh come he said it eh have nutten 2 do wit me via a lawyer not Olalay but somebody who works wit Olalay. However, d TTFF and Jack have d same lawyer. D judge gettin upset because when Jack peeps ask 4 a 60 day adjournment 4 d interim payment. He said u all had 5yrs. Ity is to be paid 7days from today.
So Jack has to go on affidavit and say how it eh have nutten 2 do wit me by Nov and in Dec evrybody has 2 b back in court 4 d judge 2 rule. When I get d dates I will post. D judge waants this resolve by d end of the year.
So lets see the not so Hon MP for Chag West go on affidavit.
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Rampersad is a simpleton or what? How much facking times he going to allow Jack play rope-a-dope?
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Rampersad is a simpleton or what? How much facking times he going to allow Jack play rope-a-dope?
D man Jack has 2 go on affidavit and say it eh have nutten 2 do wit me. Scamps already say that so it up 2 d judge 2 decide which set of affidavit is truthful. Dis judge has given 2 interim payments and is making sure all his i's dotted, t's cross and ducks lined up in a row. I happy wit him let see when Jack lie on d affidavit what d goodly judge does because all of us have seen himm collecting cheques. If he say he acted on behalf of the TTFF and d judge believe him then Scamps will b soley responsible. If not lets see what he will do.
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Rampersad is a simpleton or what? How much facking times he going to allow Jack play rope-a-dope?
D man Jack has 2 go on affidavit and say it eh have nutten 2 do wit me. Scamps already say that so it up 2 d judge 2 decide which set of affidavit is truthful. Dis judge has given 2 interim payments and is making sure all his i's dotted, t's cross and ducks lined up in a row. I happy wit him let see when Jack lie on d affidavit what d goodly judge does because all of us have seen himm collecting cheques. If he say he acted on behalf of the TTFF and d judge believe him then Scamps will b soley responsible. If not lets see what he will do.
Has he not he already acknowledged Jack as the defacto head of the ttff why the affidavit? Obviously Jack looking to palm it off on Camps, as everyone knows. So when Camps gone Jack could be left intact to influence succession in the federation and keep pulling strings as the finance man.
Jack's role was 'special' advisor. Nothing has ever been suggested or is there documentation to suggest that he ever went further than this, i.e. administered or budgeted monies for the TTFF. Camps will be left holding the bag. That's good but Jack is setting things up as he vs camps, in reality they worked in concert for a long time. I think Camps realizes Jack winning this one, hence his poor condition in court last time.
Just my speculation, hope I'm dead wrong.
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Rampersad is a simpleton or what? How much facking times he going to allow Jack play rope-a-dope?
D man Jack has 2 go on affidavit and say it eh have nutten 2 do wit me. Scamps already say that so it up 2 d judge 2 decide which set of affidavit is truthful. Dis judge has given 2 interim payments and is making sure all his i's dotted, t's cross and ducks lined up in a row. I happy wit him let see when Jack lie on d affidavit what d goodly judge does because all of us have seen himm collecting cheques. If he say he acted on behalf of the TTFF and d judge believe him then Scamps will b soley responsible. If not lets see what he will do.
Has he not he already acknowledged Jack as the defacto head of the ttff why the affidavit? Obviously Jack looking to palm it off on Camps, as everyone knows. So when Camps gone Jack could be left intact to influence succession in the federation and keep pulling strings as the finance man.
Jack's role was 'special' advisor. Nothing has ever been suggested or is there documentation to suggest that he ever went further than this, i.e. administered or budgeted monies for the TTFF. Camps will be left holding the bag. That's good but Jack is setting things up as he vs camps, in reality they worked in concert for a long time. I think Camps realizes Jack winning this one, hence his poor condition in court last time.
Just my speculation, hope I'm dead wrong.
High court civil matters work wit affidavit nobody goes in d bix and swear so Jack has to on affidavit and say it wasn't me i.e. his testimony. So it is up 2 d judge 2 blieve Jack or Scamps. Yes Scamps most likely will end up beimng thrown under d bus but me eh cryin 4 him. It would b nice for d judge 2 say Jack yuh lie when he get his affidavit but only time will tell.
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Just to clarify the process...
First, Warner has objected to be joined with the case (i.e. becoming the third defendent after TTFF & Camps)
Warner has 7 days to submit his affidavit which will be his reasons why he should not be made a defendent.
Townley then has 7 days to submit submissions explaining why Warner should be a defendent.
The judge will the announce on 8th December if Warner is to become a defendent.
Meanwhile, the second interim payment of $4.2 million (including interest) must be paid in 7 days by TTFF (who are apparently broke)
On 30th November, a hearing will take place to award costs.
Whatever information or statements are made in an affidavit equates to sworn testimony and if found to be untrue, could be contrued as perjury.
Anybody who believes this judge is sticking or weak are completely wrong. The judge has to work within the process of the law. However, he has given no leeway to the defendents and supported virtually all of the players motions. It is apparent that he is keen to end this case and it looks like he wants to see Warner in his courtroom.
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Anybody who believes this judge is sticking or weak are completely wrong. The judge has to work within the process of the law.
What was the order that was issued two weeks ago by the judge... vis-a-vis Warner's appearance in court today?
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High court civil matters work wit affidavit nobody goes in d bix and swear so Jack has to on affidavit and say it wasn't me i.e. his testimony. So it is up 2 d judge 2 blieve Jack or Scamps. Yes Scamps most likely will end up beimng thrown under d bus but me eh cryin 4 him. It would b nice for d judge 2 say Jack yuh lie when he get his affidavit but only time will tell.
i think i am the simpleton here, too much in a hurry to see jack ketching soap in prison. i say jack leave a nice clear trail for the judge to follow, apparently not so. but ollie camps was too stupid to protect himself, so will be the one to suffer most. now you have to wonder what are jack's plans for the future, what current events are being orchestrating out of sight to preserve his influence in the game
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Jack's role was 'special' advisor. Nothing has ever been suggested or is there documentation to suggest that he ever went further than this, i.e. administered or budgeted monies for the TTFF.
Chairman, LOC Germany 2006 Ltd.
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From back in Nov 17, 2005 in the Express:
Warner: We'll make T&T proud in Germany.
By: Julien Neaves (Express).
Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) has already begun its plans for World Cup 2006 in Germany and has acquired the assistance of football marketing professionals from Jamaica and the US, according to FIFA Vice President and T&TFF special adviser Jack Warner.
"We are far ahead in our planning than people would ever imagine," said Warner during a live interview with TV6 from Bahrain yesterday.
Warner said that the plans will be sanctioned by the TTFF but will be controlled by the Local Organising Committee (LOC) Germany 2006 Ltd. He said that a two storey office in Woodbrook has been secured for the Committee and Executive Director of the Caribbean Football Union Marketing Division, Horace Reid from Jamaica, has been hired to assist with planning and marketing.
The US Soccer Federation will also be assisting with the local marketing programme, he said.
Warner said that there will be three matches in the first three months of 2006 as part of the lead up to the World Cup. While not providing the details of these matches he said that the final match on March 26 will be "the biggest the country has ever seen".
He said that for 40 years he has "taken every abuse, every criticism, every vilification, every degradation" but has kept focused and wanted to thank all the people who kept the faith with him. He credited the qualification of the team to their syncretism and the commitment of the technical staff and expressed high hopes for the team's performance in Germany.
"We shall make FIFA proud, we shall make CONCACAF proud, but most importantly this nation," said Warner.
He predicted that the players and their supporters will "light up Germany like no other country ever has or ever will" by carrying its calypso, culture, flora, fauna, people and music to the European country.
Warner also commented on the violent behaviour by some of the Bahrain supporters who threw bottles and rocks at local supporters after the match. He described it as "most disgraceful" and expressed his belief that FIFA would address the situation "in due course".
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Jack's role was 'special' advisor. Nothing has ever been suggested or is there documentation to suggest that he ever went further than this, i.e. administered or budgeted monies for the TTFF.
Chairman, LOC Germany 2006 Ltd.
thanks e-man :beermug:
We shall make FIFA proud, we shall make CONCACAF proud, but most importantly this nation," said Warner.
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Jack's role was 'special' advisor. Nothing has ever been suggested or is there documentation to suggest that he ever went further than this, i.e. administered or budgeted monies for the TTFF.
Chairman, LOC Germany 2006 Ltd.
thanks e-man :beermug:
We shall make FIFA proud, we shall make CONCACAF proud, but most importantly this nation," said Warner.
Eman when this is all over you have to get an award for having all d necessary info. It is your info that help the plyers check d money now this lovely article I sure can be used.
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This is the timeline for action as promised
Further interim payment to be made by 18th October 2011.
Jack to go an affidavit by October 17th
Thu Dec 8th decision is fixed for 10 am.
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Judge orders TTFF: Pay $4.2M to ‘World Cup Warriors’
By Stephon Nicholas Wednesday, October 12 2011
Christmas came early for several members of the 2006 FIFA World Cup team who are seeing light at the end of the tunnel after a lengthy legal battle with the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) over bonuses for the successful campaign to Germany.
The TTFF was yesterday ordered by Justice Devindra Rampersad to pay an interim sum of approximately $4.2 million by next Tuesday to 13 members of the 2006 team.
It was the second order by the judge for the TTFF to pay following an initial $7.5 million payment earlier this year.
The players who will be benefitting are Atiba Charles, Cyd Gray, Cornell Glen, Shaka Hislop, Avery John, Stern John, Kenwyne Jones, Kelvin Jack, Collin Samuel, Brent Sancho, Aurtis Whitley, Evans Wise and Anthony Wolfe.
Rampersad made the declaration for the $4.2 million yesterday at the Port-of-Spain High Court despite protests from attorney Dereck Balliram representing the TTFF.
Balliram requested 60 days to pay the sum but it was denied as the judge ratified the pleas of the claimants that five years have elapsed and “a sense of urgency has to be imparted”.
Rampersad lamented, however, that the larger issue of the actual revenue earned for the 2006 World Cup campaign remains unresolved.
He admitted that he remains unaware of the state of the TTFF accounts and was “operating in a vacuum”. The “Soca Warriors”’ lawyers chastised the TTFF for their request for more time, noting that they are aware of over $160 million paid to the local football body so they found the need for 60 days to pay just over $4 million “overwhelming and can’t understand it all”.
Meanwhile, Balliram, also instructed to act on behalf of former TTFF Special Advisor, Jack Warner, objected to the application that Warner be made a third defendant in the matter.
The claimants had earlier requested Warner be made an official part of the matter as TTFF president Oliver Camps implied in an affidavit that the ex-FIFA vice-president could make clearer the accounts of the TTFF which are yet to be established.
Rampersad yesterday asked TTFF and Warner to make submissions for their objection to Warner being made a third defendant (after the TTFF and Camps) by November 4 while the footballers were given by November 30 to make their response.
The footballers are eager to determine who was in charge of the TTFF accounts and who can give an accurate depiction of what was the exact figure generated from commercial revenue for the World Cup campaign so the funds could be shared.
There will be a hearing on November 30 for the statement of costs of which there were no objections while all other remaining issues were adjourned to December 8.
The players were represented by George Hislop, Dave De Peiza and Phillip Lamont.
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$4.2 mil by next Tuesday :o
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Rampersad made the declaration for the $4.2 million yesterday at the Port-of-Spain High Court despite protests from attorney Dereck Balliram representing the TTFF.
The claimants had earlier requested Warner be made an official part of the matter as TTFF president Oliver Camps implied in an affidavit that the ex-FIFA vice-president could make clearer the accounts of the TTFF which are yet to be established.
Meanwhile, Balliram, also instructed to act on behalf of former TTFF Special Advisor, Jack Warner, objected to the application that Warner be made a third defendant in the matter.
this place sweet too bad
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A cool US$50k each...
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A cool US$50k each...
Yeah, but thats just about six months wages in the English Championship, which several players were denied the right to earn by being blacklisted!!
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A cool US$50k each...
Yeah, but thats just about six months wages in the English Championship, which several players were denied the right to earn by being blacklisted!!
How many of those 14 players were likely to earn that amount of money playing football? And this is just an interim payment.
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A cool US$50k each...
Yeah, but thats just about six months wages in the English Championship, which several players were denied the right to earn by being blacklisted!!
How many of those 14 players were likely to earn that amount of money playing football? And this is just an interim payment.
Of the 13 still in the case, Stern would still be earning around US$20-25k per month if he played in UK or USA. At least 2 of the others back in 2006 were earning around US$10-12k per month. Shaka has retired, so this is free money, but in 2006 he could have been making US$60-80k per month. I really can't speak about the other 9 players. For some this would be beyond there dreams back in 2006, without a doubt.
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Yeah, but thats just about six months wages in the English Championship, which several players were denied the right to earn by being blacklisted!!
My larger point in response to the above comment is that this is a LOT of money by any definition, therefore a significant victory for the players.
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Yeah, but thats just about six months wages in the English Championship, which several players were denied the right to earn by being blacklisted!!
My larger point in response to the above comment is that this is a LOT of money by any definition, therefore a significant victory for the players.
:beermug: :beermug:
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There is a scene in a movie called A Few Good Men, where Ton Cruise, a Navy attorney, gets a Marine colonel, Jack Nicholson, to admit an offence in court. Its a powerful scene and I always imagined the same scene being played out in T&T high court with Mike Townley playing the Tom Cruise role and, of course, Warner in the Nicholson role. Here is the transcript of that scene with a few alterations:
Warner: You want answers?
Townley: I think I'm entitled to them.
Warner: You want answers?
Townley: I want the truth!
Warner: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with honour. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Brent Sancho? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for T&T football and you curse the TTFF. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that T&T football's death, while tragic, probably saved money. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves money...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me in FIFA. You need me on that wall.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very football federation I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up an application form and stand for election. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
Townley: Did you produce the spread sheet?
Warner: (quietly) I did the job they sent me to do.
Townley: Did you produce the spread sheet?
Warner: You're goddamn right I did!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hopNAI8Pefg
Of course, there will be no cross examination in this case, but perhaps we may get something like it in the exchanges following Warners affidavit. After all, whats Warners defence going to be? "I didn't do it?"
He really has to explain why the money isn't in the spreadsheet he has continued to produce for 5 years and the location of that money and why it isn't shown or been passed to TTFF who are virtually bankrupt.
Next question. If TTFF have to pay $4.2 million by Tuesday, where will it come from? They have told Anil they are broke. So, they should now file for bankruptcy. But if they do pay the money, someone should be asking where it came from, and if they had access to money, why didn't the Haiti game go ahead, and why are they receiving taxpayers dollars??
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So uuummmm without going back over the thread, is it $4.26 million divided by 13 plus money for Mike and De Peiza and who ever else is on the legal team?? or $4.26 million inclusive of legal costs??
In any event, them fellas a long, long way from $5,000 :applause: :applause:.....yuh hear dat Birchall?? How dem peanuts feeling in yuh pocket now?? >:( :busshead:
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I think the costs are to be argued in court on 30th November.
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I think the costs are to be argued in court on 30th November.
Gr8
So uuummmm without going back over the thread, is it $4.26 million divided by 13 plus money for Mike and De Peiza and who ever else is on the legal team?? or $4.26 million inclusive of legal costs??
In any event, them fellas a long, long way from $5,000 :applause: :applause:.....yuh hear dat Birchall?? How dem peanuts feeling in yuh pocket now?? >:( :busshead:
Doh 4get Dog took peanuts as well
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so by november 30th this fella watson with the secret that everybody knows should be exposed as the new 'leader' of this federation
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:cursing: Today, December 8th, 2011, a day that will live in infamy. One half of Pinky and the Brain appears in court before Judge Rampersad to account for the missing millions owed to a group of frontier blazers, and no, I am not referring to Chuck, but I am referring to the 16 men brave enough to do what so many only talk about, take on Pinky and the Brain. Stay tune and let's see what drama unfolds. Will the Brain finally conquer the world or will the Judge finally control his courtroom?
Hhhhmmmmmm.
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11:00 am TNT TIME IS COURT
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11:00 am TNT TIME IS COURT
Somebody run down by de court house nah, cause yuh know Fuentes still interviewing Stern John about NE Stars.
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11:00 am TNT TIME IS COURT
Somebody run down by de court house nah, cause yuh know Fuentes still interviewing Stern John about NE Stars.
:rotfl:
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Just heard; no judgement on Jack being named as a defendant.
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11:00 am TNT TIME IS COURT
Somebody run down by de court house nah, cause yuh know Fuentes still interviewing Stern John about NE Stars.
:rotfl:
Weary doh laugh nah this is serious business,did Jack show up in court today?what happen we justice system is a joke or what?is five yrs now what are the charges?somebody bribeing the Judge and the police,any updates on what happen today? important day (King Deese).
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coops you like to instigate! :devil: :devil: :devil: allyuh is good entertainment oui.
i wonder if ttff using taxpayer money to foot their legal costs? must be in the millions by now.
sweet t&T
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Ah selling it like I buy it. Case adjourned to Jan 6th, I doh know why..... The body language of de judge looking like he eh too inclined to add Jackula as a defendant.
The judge gave the players the green light to start proceedings to levy on de TTFF/Scamps. More details to follow I'm sure....stay tuned.....
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coops you like to instigate! :devil: :devil: :devil: allyuh is good entertainment oui.
i wonder if ttff using taxpayer money to foot their legal costs? must be in the millions by now.
sweet t&T
You are correct,i've always said there are no winners in all this shyt going on in T&T Football today,while we fighting and pointing fingers at each other Football is being destroyed,we have a lot of people that knows everything have all the answers but that will not help us unless we have people who are willing to bite the bullit and take action,we need action people in Football.
I know and understand we in a different time,a time when people are not willing to volunteer any more it's just unfortunate life has come to this,we all going to suffer because of it,we in a time now where money talks and bullshit walks,could you imagine a perfect world without money?people just want and no one is giving back.The damage that's being done to T&T Football will take another decade to recouperate,i'm just sorry for those that play or wants to play the game because the people who creating all the problems are those who not playing anymore.
If you notice i don't discuss foreign Football/players,i'm just very concerned about Football at home,i can talk a lot about how it used to be but i'm not home to update you all on what it's like today,i used to be involved in Football all over T&T when i was home that's the kind of guy i am,i could have told you something about every club,Coach,players,organization etc etc doh talk about Minor leagues i was the king,i'm from San Juan and used to play Minor League in La Brea. (entertainment ;D)
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Coops we already had an action man. He destroy the game. Now yuh want another one? :shameonyou: ;D
I don't bother much about foreign football either. Maybe we should forget local and be more 'down' with the foreign. Lets see....do you think that Mourhino's use of Pepe in the last El Classico ahead of Real's back four provided the compactness neccessary to contain Messi's mazy runs? Or did it simply clear channels for Khedira and Sergio Ramos to fire the ball to CR7/CR9?
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Coops we already had an action man. He destroy the game. Now yuh want another one? :shameonyou: ;D
I don't bother much about foreign football either. Maybe we should forget local and be more 'down' with the foreign. Lets see....do you think that Mourhino's use of Pepe in the last El Classico ahead of Real's back four provided the compactness neccessary to contain Messi's mazy runs? Or did it simply clear channels for Khedira and Sergio Ramos to fire the ball to CR7/CR9?
May be you are one of those guys with the answers,what are some of your suggestions?who is Mourhino,Pepe,Khedira,Sergio Ramos and Messi etc these guys don't interest me,you see this is one of our problems right there we taken up with too much foreign Football and neglects/condemns what we have at home.
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I don't really take part in those discussions about La Liga, EPL, etc. But that is not really the problem is it? ;)
I put in some suggestions along with others in a presentation to the Ministry of Sport. Patriot was there and read the socawarriors proposal to the Minister. Interestingly Larry Romany echoed some of the points raised by socawarriors.net, e.g. need for a national policy on football
When the Ministry call was put out how come you did not bother to take time to 'put back' as you often say. As a former national player and coach its completely understandable. You have already served the country well. That is why you get a lot of respect here, despite all the differences in opinion.
However the MoS has committed itself to publishing a discussion paper on all the suggestions it recieved for further review and hopefully, action. :liar: Are you going to sit this one out too Coops? I hope not. Football needs a lot more people to stand up for it, big or small, expert or fan, from every corner of the world.
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I don't really take part in those discussions about La Liga, EPL, etc. But that is not really the problem is it? ;)
I put in some suggestions along with others in a presentation to the Ministry of Sport. Patriot was there and read the socawarriors proposal to the Minister. Interestingly Larry Romany echoed some of the points raised by socawarriors.net, e.g. need for a national policy on football
When the Ministry call was put out how come you did not bother to take time to 'put back' as you often say. As a former national player and coach its completely understandable. You have already served the country well. That is why you get a lot of respect here, despite all the differences in opinion.
However the MoS has committed itself to publishing a discussion paper on all the suggestions it recieved for further review and hopefully, action. :liar: Are you going to sit this one out too Coops? I hope not. Football needs a lot more people to stand up for it, big or small, expert or fan, from every corner of the world.
Zando,may be you don't know my age,i eh no young fella plus my health is not the best,the cry on this forum is about the old men involved in running our Football,if you look at the petition this Forum is asking people to sign,check the comments from the peeps who signing it,i worked hard and had my time in T&T Football and have never asked for anything,i just loved the game and still do because i'm involved out here on a full time basis.
The cry is GET OUT but you asking me if i am going to sit this one out,i am sitting out of TT Football years now,what you all now experiencing i've experienced it years ago,for me is just history repeating itself,you all will never know the people and lives that have been destroyed by Jack and them over the years,i am still blacklisted by the Football administration but people say i'm Jack boy,i maintain a friendship there because that's all we have.
Breds giving a presentation at a Symposium isn't the only way of giving back,over the years i've been out here every time i go back home i take with me bags of equipment and distribute in the San Juan,Santa Cruz and North Coast area and schools,i run Clinics and one day tournaments which was televised on a couple occasions,Wayne Cunningham was my contact/set up person with these projects, all this is done without the help of the TTFF,sponsor etc etc i explain to customs at the airport what the equipment is for and they sympathyse with me.
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The cry is GET OUT but you asking me if i am going to sit this one out,i am sitting out of TT Football years now,what you all now experiencing i've experienced it years ago,for me is just history repeating itself,you all will never know the people and lives that have been destroyed by Jack and them over the years,i am still blacklisted by the Football administration but people say i'm Jack boy,i maintain a friendship there because that's all we have.
Breds giving a presentation at a Symposium isn't the only way of giving back,over the years i've been out here every time i go back home i take with me bags of equipment and distribute in the San Juan,Santa Cruz and North Coast area and schools,i run Clinics and one day tournaments which was televised on a couple occasions,Wayne Cunningham was my contact/set up person with these projects, all this is done without the help of the TTFF,sponsor etc etc i explain to customs at the airport what the equipment is for and they sympathyse with me.
Perhaps the cry should not be 'get out', but 'come and do your part'. Adressing young people in particular. Each new generation eventually has to create their own environment .
Coops if you know how much lives Jack has destroyed surely you can understand why it was important to censure him and change the system that allowed him to accumulate and employ such destructive power with impunity.
And yes you are correct, a presentation at a symposium is only one small thing. There are many many other ways to give back. And as many excuses not to.
Coops I truly respect the fact that you trying to maintain good relationships despite the pettiness. And for working with the schools and young people. Better than most of us forum big mouths who does get paralysis and look-away disease when its time to put up.
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:yellowcard: Fe-Fi-Fo-Fum, I smell the blood of a not so good ConMan. They say that sports reflects life. Well, if that is the case, in baseball, three strikes and you are out is the rule of the game, then you go back to your friggin spot on the bench. Obviously, this judge is not aware of the three strikes rule. You don't show up for court the third time you are asked to and you are in contempt of court. Neither, is this judge aware of Jacko's past history of not showing up for any court dates when it is requested of him. Where is the contempt of court charge? Why is this man given so much leniency when he obviuosly has other people's money hidden away in some offshore account. If you "hijack" other people's money it's called "robbery", you are not allowed to past that money on to your children like some family heirloom to be shared equally. You don't get to ride off into the sunset like a hero or even like your friend till the end, Uncle Ollie. You have a price to pay. All greedy men eventually pay that price. For some, it takes longer than others.
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Ah selling it like I buy it. Case adjourned to Jan 6th, I doh know why..... The body language of de judge looking like he eh too inclined to add Jackula as a defendant.
The judge gave the players the green light to start proceedings to levy on de TTFF/Scamps. More details to follow I'm sure....stay tuned.....
So the case is supposed to resume tomorrow. Who will make an appearance and give the forum the low down? Then again it won't be surprising if this judge adjourns YET AGAIN to allow TTFF to flaunt the very orders he issued.
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I think this judge is very tricky. I think he's giving TTFF as much leeway as possible because he knows that the first thing they will do is appeal. Therefore, I believe he's moving on the basis of "Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves"
I think he will support the contempt order as he wants to see the players receive an interim payment. But he will not be rushed into giving a verdict. He's measuring every step he takes and is probably receiving advice on possible loopholes he could leave TTFF and closing them down.
It will be hard for TTFF to prove, after 5 years of litigation that they had no time to prepare. (Even if Watson says he's had no time as President, he will find it hard to convince anyone). TTFF and Camps have submitted several different sets of accounts, so they cannot say they haven't had a chance to defend themselves.
I think the Judge will add Warner. Not because he has evidence that Warner did something wrong, but because there is no evidence that he acted correctly. Warner has not contested Camps accusation that he has the funds and has not delivered them to TTFF after several requests. Warners accounts are not accurate. Warner negotiated the contract and prepared inaccurate accounts for the players and offered them an incorrect sum. Warner made out of court agreements with 10 players. Why? If his accounts were correct, why did he pay them US$30,000 instead of the TT$5,000 he said they were owed?
I think the judge doesn't want to accept a bronze medal.....nah, he's going for gold!
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Case postpone to Thu 12th
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Case postpone to Thu 12th
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
On the 12th it will be postponed again. !!!!
Jack owns the judge and jury !!!!!!!!!!! sshhhhhhhh......
Jack will raise again !!!!!
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Case postpone to Thu 12th
A Mockery of Justice.
The judge in this case, the TTFF, Jack Warner, and Oliver Scamps should all be held in contempt of court for making a mockery of justice. Yes I know the judge cannot hold himself in contempt of court but I am because in my opinion he is doing a great dis-service to the cause of justice and due process in this case. Last year the TTFF was ordered to pay a second interim payment of $4.2 million following an initial interim payment of $7.5 million some months earlier. The second payment was to be paid one week after the order. Yet, the order was promptly ignored. The order to pay within one week was challenged by the TTFF, to allow the TTFF 60 days to come up with the payment. Judge Rampersad denied that request stating that "Five years have elapsed and a sense of urgency has to be imparted". One has to wonder what ever happened to this judge's "sense of urgency". Maybe, judge Rampersad should excuse himself from this case.
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As I understand it, once the judge has made an order of payment, it is then down to the recipient of the award to recover the funds, which is what is happening now. The contempt of court issue can be dealt with at the next hearing and is not necessarily delaying anything.
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As I understand it, once the judge has made an order of payment, it is then down to the recipient of the award to recover the funds, which is what is happening now. The contempt of court issue can be dealt with at the next hearing and is not necessarily delaying anything.
It could have been dealt with WAY before this time. Measuring his steps or not, in light of the unconditional funding of the TTFF by the MoS, Jack's international notareity and his position in government, the optics are beginning to look bad on this one. Lets hope this judge does not succumb to the whatever pressures are being thrown at him and passes decisive judgements that are consistent with his statements to date.
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As I understand it, once the judge has made an order of payment, it is then down to the recipient of the award to recover the funds, which is what is happening now. The contempt of court issue can be dealt with at the next hearing and is not necessarily delaying anything.
It could have been dealt with WAY before this time. Measuring his steps or not, in light of the unconditional funding of the TTFF by the MoS, Jack's international notareity and his position in government, the optics are beginning to look bad on this one. Lets hope this judge does not succumb to the whatever pressures are being thrown at him and passes decisive judgements that are consistent with his statements to date.
D HORNER SAY JACK OWN D JUDGE
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As I understand it, once the judge has made an order of payment, it is then down to the recipient of the award to recover the funds, which is what is happening now. The contempt of court issue can be dealt with at the next hearing and is not necessarily delaying anything.
It could have been dealt with WAY before this time. Measuring his steps or not, in light of the unconditional funding of the TTFF by the MoS, Jack's international notareity and his position in government, the optics are beginning to look bad on this one. Lets hope this judge does not succumb to the whatever pressures are being thrown at him and passes decisive judgements that are consistent with his statements to date.
D HORNER SAY JACK OWN D JUDGE
Doh forget.....Jack will raise again!!!
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As I understand it, once the judge has made an order of payment, it is then down to the recipient of the award to recover the funds, which is what is happening now. The contempt of court issue can be dealt with at the next hearing and is not necessarily delaying anything.
It could have been dealt with WAY before this time. Measuring his steps or not, in light of the unconditional funding of the TTFF by the MoS, Jack's international notareity and his position in government, the optics are beginning to look bad on this one. Lets hope this judge does not succumb to the whatever pressures are being thrown at him and passes decisive judgements that are consistent with his statements to date.
D HORNER SAY JACK OWN D JUDGE
Doh forget.....Jack will raise again!!!
HOW COULD I
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Case postpone to Thu 12th
Day of the malfeasance of an ex-fifa official and a Sinister of Parliament
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Come on judge, come on...... :praying: :praying:
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This 2 weeks turning out to be 2 flippin years.
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This 2 weeks turning out to be 2 flippin years.
Like yuh maths worse than minds since 06 this ting draggin on.
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BUMP. I think a significant advance in the case will be made today, for better or worse. The facts can't be altered and the judge can't just keep adjourning this ad infinitum.
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UPDATE:
The Court has instructed the TTFF to write the not so Hon MP for Chaguanas West to indicate where d money gone. He has not yet joined him to the matter. Case adjourned Feb 10th.
In regards to the LEVY. The papers have been filed and it is now in the hansds of the BALIFF. Who betta doh STICK.
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UPDATE:
The Court has instructed the TTFF to write the not so Hon MP for Chaguanas West to indicate where d money gone. He has not yet joined him to the matter. Case adjourned Feb 10th.
In regards to the LEVY. The papers have been filed and it is now in the hansds of the BALIFF. Who betta doh STICK.
Thanks weary. So on February 10 when the rite honarabble Mr. Warner has not responded the case will be put off until March 10 when Rumpersad will 'order' jack to respond. Then adjourned to june after he has ignored yet another order.
This judge had said he wanted to wrap things up by December...maybe he meant 2014. Far be it from me to say that Rumpersad has been bought like a pet and is simply buying time for jack...but the optics look very bad on this one. if Jack is not added as a defendant then the TTFF is left holding the bag. And Jack poised to fund the next group that rises from the TTFF ashes from behind the scenes.
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This is Warner being roped in. He either has to comply or the judge will add him and haul him into court to testify on oath.
The judge is giving respect to a Cabinet Minister, as it will be detrimental to the image of the T&T government to have a cabinet minister in court.
This is not about Warner per se, but more respecting his position.
I imagine that this will not be resolved until at least April. Warner will either not reply or not give a satisfactory reply. The players will contest his figures and then the judge will decide.
This may now turn political because the players have a statement from the PNM government obtained under the freedom of information act that LOC collected over $88 million from sponsors. Warner could argue that that figure was incorrect. Of course, he's had over 5 years to contest the figure but never did!
Big question at the moment is will the Finland game still go ahead?
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UPDATE:
The Court has instructed the TTFF to write the not so Hon MP for Chaguanas West to indicate where d money gone. He has not yet joined him to the matter. Case adjourned Feb 10th.
In regards to the LEVY. The papers have been filed and it is now in the hansds of the BALIFF. Who betta doh STICK.
Thanks weary. So on February 10 when the rite honarabble Mr. Warner has not responded the case will be put off until March 10 when Rumpersad will 'order' jack to respond. Then adjourned to june after he has ignored yet another order.
This judge had said he wanted to wrap things up by December...maybe he meant 2014. Far be it from me to say that Rumpersad has been bought like a pet and is simply buying time for jack...but the optics look very bad on this one. if Jack is not added as a defendant then the TTFF is left holding the bag. And Jack poised to fund the next group that rises from the TTFF ashes from behind the scenes.
Zandolie cyah agree wit u we find a judge in TNT 2 rule 4 d players a miracle rite there
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This is Warner being roped in. He either has to comply or the judge will add him and haul him into court to testify on oath.
The judge is giving respect to a Cabinet Minister, as it will be detrimental to the image of the T&T government to have a cabinet minister in court.
This is not about Warner per se, but more respecting his position.
Maybe Jack and the PP should have thought of that before. IMO its less detrimental to have a cabinet minister in court that to allow a cabinet minister to blatantly ignore court orders. Part of the problem with our culture is granting far too much leeway to well heeled criminals.
Zandolie cyah agree wit u we find a judge in TNT 2 rule 4 d players a miracle rite there
I truly hope you and football supporter are correct and I am wrong, because I don't want to see a judge rule 4 d players then pass soft man penalites on Jack and co. As for the baliffs I don't hold out much hope they will get around to business anytime soon.
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Sorry tuh come off ah an ignoramus, but this bad minded stubborn old hater would never give dem boys ah dime if he could help it.
like allyuh doh know how things does work in the third world or what? he will stall stall stall as long as he can, and will find every avenue to avoid paying one red cent to these boys,
and the thing is, he could call this whole thing off if he wanted bc he has enough paper tuh make ah deal with these guys and end this charade, but that monkey would rather die than to compromise or make good on his promise.
it's the same arseh@le disposition like ghaddafi, mubarak, saddam and mubutto, this clown would prefer being brought down rather than concede to his own bullsh!t.
sad to say, but if this was some whiteman in the first world, this BS probably would've been squashed eons ago. these guys would've been paid and forgotten all about what transpired, and it would've been business and production as usual.
it's ah serious sin thing in the third world amongst ppl with power and authority, they always manage to go the route of the oppressor far more often than not, and would rather fight to the death than concede to doing the right thing especially when called on their bullsh!t.
jack warner is ah serious wicked bastard, and i hope he pays one way or another for what his hands has sent on before him, right here in this life. positive.
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Judge orders TTFF to find Warner's money
wired868.com
Justice Devindra Rampersad today ordered the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) to "direct" Minister of Works and Transport Jack Warner to show the whereabouts of "all income, donations, gifts, grants or benefits whatsoever" from the 2006 World Cup by a deadline of February 10, 2012.
Meanwhile, TTFF General Secretary Richard Groden, according to defence attorney Om Lalla, could not even find his way to the Port of Spain High Court and there was no other representative from the local football body. Former TTFF President Oliver Camps, who is also a defendant, was absent too along with his lawyer, Annabelle Sooklal.
Justice Rampersad slammed the behavior of the defendants as "deplorable" and found an "obvious conflict of interest" in the shared legal team of Warner and the TTFF. However, he dismissed the World Cup players' attempts to join Warner to the case as the circumstances did not merit it "at this time".
David De Peiza, George Hislop and Phillip Lamont represented the "Soca Warriors" in court today; World Cup players Brent Sancho, Cyd Gray, Anthony Wolfe and David Atiba Charles were also present.
(More details to follow in Wired868)
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Judge orders TTFF to find Warner's money
wired868.com
Justice Devindra Rampersad today ordered the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) to "direct" Minister of Works and Transport Jack Warner to show the whereabouts of "all income, donations, gifts, grants or benefits whatsoever" from the 2006 World Cup by a deadline of February 10, 2012.
Meanwhile, TTFF General Secretary Richard Groden, according to defence attorney Om Lalla, could not even find his way to the Port of Spain High Court and there was no other representative from the local football body. Former TTFF President Oliver Camps, who is also a defendant, was absent too along with his lawyer, Annabelle Sooklal.
Justice Rampersad slammed the behavior of the defendants as "deplorable" and found an "obvious conflict of interest" in the shared legal team of Warner and the TTFF. However, he dismissed the World Cup players' attempts to join Warner to the case as the circumstances did not merit it "at this time".
David De Peiza, George Hislop and Phillip Lamont represented the "Soca Warriors" in court today; World Cup players Brent Sancho, Cyd Gray, Anthony Wolfe and David Atiba Charles were also present.
(More details to follow in Wired868)
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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This is Warner being roped in. He either has to comply or the judge will add him and haul him into court to testify on oath.
The judge is giving respect to a Cabinet Minister, as it will be detrimental to the image of the T&T government to have a cabinet minister in court.
This is not about Warner per se, but more respecting his position.
Maybe Jack and the PP should have thought of that before. IMO its less detrimental to have a cabinet minister in court that to allow a cabinet minister to blatantly ignore court orders. Part of the problem with our culture is granting far too much leeway to well heeled criminals.
Zandolie cyah agree wit u we find a judge in TNT 2 rule 4 d players a miracle rite there
I truly hope you and football supporter are correct and I am wrong, because I don't want to see a judge rule 4 d players then pass soft man penalites on Jack and co. As for the baliffs I don't hold out much hope they will get around to business anytime soon.
I think the point is that he should never have been allowed to be part of the PP campaign unless he got rid of the skeletons in his closet. You mention third world mentality, well I'm damn sure that US or UK prospective politicians are vetted. If there are any likely embarrassments, they are dealt with before public office can be taken. Those (and there have been many in both countries) who have secrets that come out and embarrass the govt, are immediately forced to resign.
Kamla and friends would have known about the court case. They may have been aware of contoversies surrounding Warners FIFA involvement. I have no sympathy for the govt as they probably wanted to believe Jack saying these boys are just a minor irritant.
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I think the point is that he should never have been allowed to be part of the PP campaign unless he got rid of the skeletons in his closet. You mention third world mentality, well I'm damn sure that US or UK prospective politicians are vetted. If there are any likely embarrassments, they are dealt with before public office can be taken. Those (and there have been many in both countries) who have secrets that come out and embarrass the govt, are immediately forced to resign.
Kamla and friends would have known about the court case. They may have been aware of contoversies surrounding Warners FIFA involvement. I have no sympathy for the govt as they probably wanted to believe Jack saying these boys are just a minor irritant.
I wouldn't bet money on that... public officials are shamed (often, out of office) on a regular, both in the US and the UK. It all depends on what one considers "skeletons" and how confident one is that they will remain hidden.
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I think the point is that he should never have been allowed to be part of the PP campaign unless he got rid of the skeletons in his closet. You mention third world mentality, well I'm damn sure that US or UK prospective politicians are vetted. If there are any likely embarrassments, they are dealt with before public office can be taken. Those (and there have been many in both countries) who have secrets that come out and embarrass the govt, are immediately forced to resign.
Kamla and friends would have known about the court case. They may have been aware of contoversies surrounding Warners FIFA involvement. I have no sympathy for the govt as they probably wanted to believe Jack saying these boys are just a minor irritant.
I wouldn't bet money on that... public officials are shamed (often, out of office) on a regular, both in the US and the UK. It all depends on what one considers "skeletons" and how confident one is that they will remain hidden.
Quite. Thats exactly why I added Those (and there have been many in both countries) who have secrets that come out and embarrass the govt, are immediately forced to resign.
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Quite. Thats exactly why I added Those (and there have been many in both countries) who have secrets that come out and embarrass the govt, are immediately forced to resign.
There are many that don't... that's the critical part that you missed. They are shamed "(often, out of office)", but implied is that this isn't always the case. Just in the US: Newt Gingrich cheating on his wife, Bill Clinton too, Charles Rangel accepting bribes, Joe Biden plagiarizing a law school article... none of them immediately forced to resign. I'm sure that if I do the research I can come up with examples from the other side of the Atlantic as well. And why limit it to just the US and UK, compare TnT to Brazil (Ricardo Texeira) or Italy (Berlusconi) and it's no different. I'm sure in your mind England is some bastion of fortrightness official responsibility, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.
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Judge orders TTFF to find Warner's money
* Written by Mr Live Wire
* Print
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Justice Devindra Rampersad today ordered the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (T&TFF) to "direct" Minister of Works and Transport Jack Warner to show the whereabouts of "all income, donations, gifts, grants or benefits whatsoever" from the 2006 World Cup by a deadline of February 10, 2012.
Meanwhile, TTFF General Secretary Richard Groden, according to defence attorney Om Lalla, could not even find his way to the Port of Spain High Court and there was no other representative from the local football body. Former TTFF President Oliver Camps, who is also a defendant, was absent too along with his lawyer, Annabelle Sooklal.
Justice Rampersad slammed the behavior of the defendants as "deplorable" and found an "obvious conflict of interest" in the shared legal team of Warner and the TTFF. However, he dismissed the World Cup players' attempts to join Warner to the case as the circumstances did not merit it "at this time".
David De Peiza, George Hislop and Phillip Lamont represented the "Soca Warriors" in court today; World Cup players Brent Sancho, Cyd Gray, Anthony Wolfe and David Atiba Charles were also present.
(More details to follow in Wired868)
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Them TTFF big wigs rel clowning this magistrate boy.
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time to wipe out these people
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Kelvin Jack and Mike Townley was just on I95.5 fm with Andre.......I forgot to start a thread about the show but we already know the details.....
Ah want to read de judgement though.....I was a bit confused by this in the article......
However, he dismissed the World Cup players' attempts to join Warner to the case as the circumstances did not merit it "at this time".
"at this time" means what exactly?? That if Jack eh pony up with the details on where de money is then he would be added?? ??? :-\
Having heard Mike tonight though I feel a bit better about the judgment because he seems to be comforted by the judgment.....
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Them TTFF big wigs rel clowning this magistrate boy.
A JUDGE DEY CLOWNING
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UPDATE:
The Court has instructed the TTFF to write the not so Hon MP for Chaguanas West to indicate where d money gone. He has not yet joined him to the matter. Case adjourned Feb 10th.
In regards to the LEVY. The papers have been filed and it is now in the hansds of the BALIFF. Who betta doh STICK.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Expect another adjournment.
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Just watching and waiting. They say the longest rope have an end.
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The TTFF was supposed to file a suit on Warner to provide accounts after the last court hearing on February 10 as instructed by the Judge. I think he asked that it be done the following day! I know Carnival followed soon after but I don't think I missed it! Has anything been filed ? Has it been reported in the newspapers? Instead we saw that gimmick with Om Lalla! Where are our journalists? They always seem to be sleeping ! Lasana any news on that? You are the only one who seem to be on top of things!
Are these people defying the judge like that? They are making a mockery of our judicial system!
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King Jack vs ttff vs 06 Soca Warriors.
Another attempt at justice. One of my favorite gangsters was Alfonse Capone. He was the original dapper Don in my book. He mocked justice and even laughed at any G-Man who dared to bring him to justice. Until his rope ran out.
King Jack is no where near being like the dapper one, he is more like Velcro, but his rope will soon run out too. King Jack, doh leh de judge embarrass yuh eh.
Two weeks to gun hill.
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what's the latest on this farce? another adjournment by judge rumpersad
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enough April Fools joke.
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what's the latest on this farce? another adjournment by judge rumpersad
D TTFF eh file v Jack. D players have 2 file contempt of court charges v Scamps, Grooden and Watson. D judge will rule on it in May.
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Harford: Warriors’ “Legends” absence is non-issue.
By: Lasana Liburd (wired868).
Anthony Harford, the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) marketing manager, said that ongoing High Court action might have influenced the TTFF’s failure to invite the 2006 World Cup players for the Sport Ministry’s 50 Greatest Legends in Sport award ceremony. And he insisted that their absence from the Jubilee function is a non-issue.
Thirteen past and present “Soca Warriors” are engaged in legal action against the TTFF over non-paid bonuses from the country’s historic appearance at the Germany 2006 World Cup.
“We have ongoing litigation with this group of boys and there is no communication apart from in the High Court,” Harford told Wired868.com. “So let the captain (Dwight Yorke) pick up the award. I don’t think the TTFF erred or they are monsters.”
Harford, who was also a convener for the Legends selection committee, said he could not confirm whether the TTFF intentionally snubbed its most famous squad but admitted that he would understand if they did.
“It is a unique situation,” said Harford. “They recently raided the TTFF offices. I’m not saying that (the TTFF) took that into consideration but I could understand if they did.”
The 13 World Cup 2006 players involved in litigation against the TTFF are: Stern John, Kenwyne Jones, Cornell Glen, Collin Samuel, Aurtis Whitley, Evans Wise, Anthony Wolfe, David Atiba Charles, Avery John, Cyd Gray, Brent Sancho, Kelvin Jack and Shaka Hislop.
On 8 February 2012, the World Cup players had a court-appointed marshall seize all removable assets from the TTFF headquarters due to its failure to meet an interim payment of $4.6 million (US$724,000) that should have been paid on 18 October 2011. A large portion of that court-mandated figure remains unpaid.
On Thursday, the TTFF issued a press release that offered its regret about the situation and claimed it was not advised on the possibility of inviting all 24 members of the team nor was there “any discussion over which members should or should not be invited.”
Harford, who held a dual role with the Legends committee and the TTFF, did not feel he erred by failing to advise the local football body to honour its 2006 squad.
“I did not ask (the TTFF to invite them) because it is a delicate matter,” said Harford. “I don’t see it as an issue… I don’t disrespect the players; a lot of them I get on extremely well with and I quite like them. But, if I was in the position of the TTFF, I may have made the same decision.”
World Cup 2006 captain and ex-Manchester United star Dwight Yorke was at the ceremony to collect an individual award and also picked up the team prize. Former Porto playmaker Russell Latapy always received individual recognition while ex-Newcastle goalkeeper Shaka Hislop was invited, by All Sport, due to his role with ESPN but was not formally acknowledged.
Former 2006 World Cup defender Cyd Gray said the circumstances of the players’ omission hurt rather than the fact that they missed a gala event.
“If the country was celebrating 50 years of independence and we were part of something legendary during that time, then I feel we should have been there,” Gray told Wired868. “I have no problem with Dwight accepting the award but the whole team should have been there because it was a team effort.
“If they wanted to mend bridges with us, this would have been a great step to start and try to put whatever differences we have aside and move forward for the best of the country.”
Gray, a former San Juan Jabloteh defender, was one of Trinidad and Tobago’s standouts at the World Cup and excelled when the “Soca Warriors” faced England in its second group match in Nuremberg.
Coach Leo Beenhakker asked Gray was to mark England striker, Michael Owen, and the “Roxborough Rocket” kept the former European Player of the Year off the score sheet although England eventually grabbed a controversial goal in the final eight minutes before sealing a last gasp 2-0 triumph.
Gray could barely walk into the dressing room after the final whistle and a MRI scan discovered that he suffered a tear in his knee cartilage during the match but defied pain to play the full 90 minutes.
After six years of legal battles, the retired player felt the TTFF should have taken the opportunity to be more civil to the legendary squad.
“Mr (Jack) warner criticized the Opposition Leader for not attending the (Jubilee) function but how is this different?” asked Gray. “They say one thing and do the opposite. For me it is already gone now and it doesn’t matter anymore. But it would have been nice to go.”
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(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/603206_10152101019380198_2066993827_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/262964_10152101018930198_1627179690_n.jpg)
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(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/603206_10152101019380198_2066993827_n.jpg)
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/262964_10152101018930198_1627179690_n.jpg)
Looks like Kamla sister!
P.S. Hope that didn't offend anyone!
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Since when does litigation mean you stop communicating with people.
The TTFF has a responsibility to ALL members of the footballing fraternity. But then I was expecting them to conduct themselves like a professional entity.
VB
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Who actually listened to the speech last night? In none of the transcripts posted by the media is there the part where he addressed the 2006 soca warriors directly. I would like to read or hear that over again!!
He mentioned about the soca warriors not scoring a single goal blah blah blah...
He promised them net profit after the sweden game blah blah blah...
How manning give dem 1 million each and how they spend that in 2 weeks blah blah blah...
How Yorkie approached him on behalf of 5 other warriors and ask him for some small amount which he paid blah blah blah...
And how he also paid the interim judgement figure handed down by the courts out of his own pocket blah blah blah...
And when they get their full settlement that they will also blow that too blah blah blah...
Does anyone have his actual words from last night on this topic?
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Here is the speech and documents: https://t.co/scFl2iHqPP
Only time 2006 came up was when he was blowing his own horn for T&T qualifying in 2006.
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Here is the speech and documents: https://t.co/scFl2iHqPP
Only time 2006 came up was when he was blowing his own horn for T&T qualifying in 2006.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. All the transcripts seem to have deleted those harsh words he had for the warriors. I would love to see the video clip of that rant again...
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CNC 3 just played the clip where he spoke about the Soca Warriors so you can probably check it online later.
He said Dwight came to him & said "Boss all I want is US$30,000.00" and then he said Dwight brought 5 other fellas and he paid them. He also said words to the effect that imagine Dwight Yorke the Captain didn't get himself involved in that quest for money.
He also said "Now they want me to pay $15 million ....me!!!!!"
He also said they eh score one goal!!!
But the clip should be on their website by tomorrow.
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Anil Roberts in todays parliamentary debate may have crossed the line when he went into details about the soca warriors claim that $205 million was raised by LOC2006. As he started to describe how the players weren't entitled to a share of the Adidas money as well as other donations from sponsors, he was warned by the speaker that these matters could not be discussed as they were relevant to an ongoing court case. Roberts argued and then the opposition also objected on the same grounds.
I don't know if Roberts can be called to account for his statements, but to me, he had no business quoting one side of the case. I would say that his arguments were very persuasive, but they only gave one side of the story.
For example, Roberts said that the Adidas deal supplied uniforms to all the T&T teams (and we can still see the kit being used now) and how can the players quote that deal in the case.
But, if the players didn't qualify for 2006, Adidas would not have done the deal. So, the players earned the deal which saved TTFF tons of money, so there is a monetary value to that deal. This was not pointed out by Roberts.
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Ok part of it is at the end of this clip.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYQWDbWuYAk&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYQWDbWuYAk&feature=player_embedded)
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Bonus-gate: How 13 World Cup 2006 players challenged the TTFF…and won
By Lasana Liburd (Wired868.com)
Wired868, with the help of five people closely involved with the case in the playing, administrative and legal camps, will tell the story of the 2006 World Cup bonus dispute.
This is part one:
Last Thursday, the Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) wired an undisclosed figure into an account managed by a representative of 13 World Cup 2006 players. It is the first tranche in a series of payments to be made over a three-year period, which is believed to add up to a seven-digit figure.
New TTFF president Raymond Tim Kee, who was a vice president when the “Soca Warriors” took the local football body to court, can claim the World Cup bonus settlement as his biggest accomplishment since taken up to the past last November. He was aided by fresh-faced general secretary Sheldon Phillips, the son of former Trinidad and Tobago icon Lincoln “Tiger” Phillips, and facilitated by CONCACAF president Jeffrey Webb.
For Trinidad and Tobago’s most successful football squad, the impending conclusion of a seven-year legal battle was met with more relief than celebration.
It started on Friday 13 October 2006, Trinidad and Tobago World Cup 2006 players and Gillingham teammates Brent Sancho and Kelvin Jack along with English football agent Steve Davis walked into the office of sport lawyer Michael Townley and requested representation for an on-going dispute with the TTFF.
The players were promised half of all World Cup revenue for the country’s historic qualification for the showcase tournament in Germany. But, on October 5, the TTFF offered the Warriors $5,644 each and then general secretary Richard Groden called the players delinquent and confrontational when they refused to accept it.
The meeting at the London law firm ended with swearing, threats of violence and the London Police being summoned. Townley and his guests got on well enough. But Jack had inadvertently parked in someone’s spot and the angry tenant blocked the League One player from reversing and called the police.
Tempers eventually cooled and the situation was defused without lawmen. But it was the start of a tumultuous case for Townley.
Not long before, the lawyer enhanced his reputation by negotiating a settlement for an unheralded and unlicensed agent, Roger Stewart, over an England World Cup star. Stewart claimed to have taken an adolescent Ashley Cole to prominent sport agency, Stellar Football, for help but was frozen out when the player joined Arsenal.
“You’re a vulture,” a Stellar representative allegedly told Stewart at the negotiating table. “All you did was look in the phone book for a boy named Cole. And you didn’t even get me the best one!”
Despite Stellar’s initial protestations, Townley extracted a six-figure settlement for Stewart although his client did not have a properly worded written contract. The London-based lawyer saw similarities in the players’ case. Both, in his mind, were a clear case of injustice.
He drew up a game plan that weekend and emailed Jack and Sancho on Monday morning. Townley stressed the key to victory in the heading of his message: “Strategy, discipline, determination and patience.”
It turned out to be a prophetic message although Townley, at that point, felt confident the TTFF would crack in weeks or maybe a few months. But then, in October 2006, he had never heard of ex-FIFA vice president and TTFF special advisor Jack Warner.
Jack and Sancho informed their teammates that they had found a lawyer. But the announcement got mixed reactions.
Team captain Dwight Yorke immediately said he was not going down that road and offered talk to Warner instead on behalf of the squad. Dennis Lawrence, Carlos Edwards, Jason Scotland and Clayton Ince also pulled out. That quartet was represented by English football agent Mike Berry, who worked as a liaison for the TTFF in the build-up to the 2006 World Cup. Berry told his players that Warner would never lose such a battle.
Football legend Russell Latapy decided against a legal fight too. He supposedly said that he wanted to part of the national coaching set-up and did not want to jeopardise his chance of a job.
By the time Sancho and Jack reported back to Townley, the number of Warriors was down from 23 to 17.
The players who stayed on were: Shaka Hislop, Avery John, Marvin Andrews, Cyd Gray, David Atiba Charles, Ian Cox, Chris Birchall, Densill Theobald, Aurtis Whitley, Anthony Wolfe, Evans Wise, Collin Samuel, Kenwyne Jones, Cornell Glen, Stern John, Sancho and Jack.
On 23 October 2006, Townley wrote to FIFA and asked the governing body to arbitrate the bonus dispute. FIFA declined. The TTFF revised its proposal to the players and, this time, offered roughly $19,000 each. But the players insisted that they would not accept anything until they saw proper accounting documents.
On 15 November 2006, the TTFF swapped the carrot for a stick. The Federation decided the best course of action was “a swifter than originally envisaged consideration of incorporating the rising brood of (young) players.” And the unhappy Warriors were suspended from international duty until further notice.
There were 16 players now. Twenty-four-year-old midfielder Densill Theobald left Scotland Premier League club, Falkirk, in August and returned to Trinidad with the hope of using his international experience to secure a better contract in Europe. But national coach and ex-Holland World Cup star Wim Rijsbergen made it clear that the promising midfielder would not represent his country as long as he was involved in even the threat legal action against the TTFF.
Theobald spoke to Hislop and Caledonia AIA coach Jamaal Shabazz. Shabazz told him it would be crazy to sacrifice his international career. Hislop, who was 37-years-old at the time, said he could not advise anyone against fulfilling his boyhood dream of playing football. So Theobald quit the court action.
Once good friends, Jack barely had a word to say to Theobald after that. It is only one of several rifts that fractured a once close-knit team.
The external pressure being placed on the young men was one thing. But the internal issues were arguably even more damaging.
In July 2006, within two weeks of their return from Germany, the Trinidad and Tobago government gave the players $250,000 in cash and $750,000 in units from Unit Trust as reward for getting to the showcase tournament.
Twenty two year old North East Stars attacker Anthony Wolfe, who never got on the field in Germany, told the media that the reward was okay for a start. Certainly many players acted as though there would be several more millions on the way.
Within weeks, most of the players had withdrawn their $750,000 in units. The government offered free financial counselling but it was not mandatory and few of the young men took it up if any did at all.
In the next 12 months, six Warriors got married. Another player bought a small fleet of cars and had his friends use a few as taxis in an ultimately unsuccessful enterprise. Another bought the local rights to an international energy drink. And, of course, there were more than a few shopping sprees and gifts for relatives and friends.
“For weeks, I had insurance agents and investment groups calling my phone every day with investment ideas for my money,” said one Warrior. “And there were schools and charity groups and people you had not heard from in years…”
Some players spent weeks at the Crowne Plaza Hotel and there were all sorts of strangers waiting for them in the lobby every morning.
Several offers prompted laughter. One gentleman wanted $40,000 to start an apple-selling business. Other propositions were more bizarre. One woman brought her attractive daughter to the hotel and offered her hand in marriage to any player who was interested.
Meanwhile, more urgent business was being left unattended.
Townley, who ran his own firm called athletes1, had given Sancho and Jack a rate of over Ł120 ($1,160) an hour for his services but he was lax in ensuring that a payment plan was agreed upon. By the following year, he still had not been paid and every attempt to get someone to sign on behalf of the 16 was delayed or resisted.
Things got trickier when Bates Wells & Braithwaite (BWB) bought athletes1 in early 2007 and Townley went to work for the bigger law firm. The firm’s lawyers are given an annual revenue target and it soon became clear that the World Cup bonus dispute was not helping Townley reach his mark. BWB read him the riot act.
The way we do things here, Townley was told, is that we tend to send a bill out to clients regularly; and they pay us.
The international blacklist meant the Warriors were not earning the match fees of around US$800 per game for representing their country while many players were at the end of their professional careers, changing clubs or getting by on modest Pro League salaries. And, crucially, they had put nothing aside for legal fees.
In June 2007, Townley told Sancho that it was over. The World Cup players would have to get another lawyer.
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Nice article.
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W/Cup players threaten return to court; TTFA bonus pact on knife’s edge
By Lasana Liburd (Wired868)
The Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) is trying desperately to preserve its out-of-court settlement with the 2006 World Cup players after failing to fulfil the terms of its pact with the “Soca Warriors.”
On Monday 20 May 2013, the TTFA officially buried the hatchet with the Warriors in what was considered to be Raymond Tim Kee’s first and biggest triumph as football president. However, the local football body is now five months late in the second of five payments due to the 13 players and is running out of negotiating room.
The 13 World Cup players are: Kelvin Jack, Shaka Hislop, Cyd Gray, Brent Sancho, David Atiba Charles, Avery John, Aurtis Whitley, Collin Samuel, Evans Wise, Anthony Wolfe, Kenwyne Jones, Stern John and Cornell Glen.
“We are owed over half of the sum due since the 1st of September although we have been promised that several times since then from several different sources,” the player’s London-based attorney, Michael Townley, told Wired868. “According to the schedule, the players were due their second tranche on the 1st of September but less than half of that was paid and, even then, it was late. Despite many promises there is nothing concrete to show for it.
“The players are now getting together to instruct (local attorney) Dave De Peiza to bring the matter back to court to enforce the debt.”
Kelvin Jack, who was Trinidad and Tobago’s first-choice goalkeeper for much of the qualifying campaign and started in the Warriors’ final group match against Paraguay, reiterated Townley’s stance.
“Every player with the exception of one is prepared to go back to court,” said Jack. “It has been very disappointing. We have been through this thing since 2006 and now we are in 2014 and are still in this situation…
“It is supposedly a different group in charge of the TTFA now but it is the same rubbish.”
The threat of a return to the High Court comes a week after the local football body announced an out-of-court agreement with another ex-World Cup player and icon Russell Latapy. Wired868 understands that Latapy accepted the promise of payment over two tranches from the TTFA as well as an acknowledgment of its debt to him from his tenure as national coach.
TTFA general secretary Sheldon Phillip was keen to stress that the football body recognises the 2006 World Cup players as its largest creditors and was trying to satisfy its debt.
“Unfortunately some of the money that was promised (to us) hasn’t materialised so we are in the process of sourcing the remaining amount,” said Phillips. “There are some extenuating circumstances that got in the way of us getting hold of those funds; but we got assurances that those funds will be paid very shortly.
“We hope the players understand that the very first thing Tim Kee did was put aside a large amount to settle this case, which should have proved his good faith to see this through.”
Phillips hinted that the money is likely to come from CONCACAF and/or FIFA but could not give details as to when the payments would be made.
However, Townley said that an absence of hard details paired with the TTFA’s public settlement with Latapy has further antagonised the players.
“There was a meeting a week ago with Sheldon and the players left more annoyed than they were going into the meeting,” said Townley. “The players expected concrete proposals and dates but it was all very evasive…
“You are told early days that you cannot get blood from stone, so you have to take the financial viability of the judgment debtor into consideration… But the players were very concerned to see Russell’s case was settled as it would appear that the TTFA has prioritised a different, more recent debt.
“Maybe if we were in court we would become a higher priority.”
Jack was characteristically straightforward.
“We have been receiving promises about money being deposited for over two months now and we are starting to feel as if they have been playing us for fools,” he said. “The (TTFA) needs to understand the seriousness of this case. Nobody wants to go back to court but what choice do we have?”
It is not a unanimous view in the Warrior camp. Shaka Hislop, who kept goal in two 2006 World Cup games and now works as an ESPN commentator, disagreed and insisted that the TTFA deserves more time.
“I don’t want to go back to court,” said Hislop. “I feel it was a long battle to get us to this point and it took a lot out of us and strained many relationships. I also feel this current administration has been working as well with us as anyone has over the last seven years…
“And I feel our case and Trinidad and Tobago’s football is best served with the current Trinidad and Tobago football administration.”
Hislop admitted that his view was partially coloured by his long-standing friendship with Phillips, whose father Lincoln “Tiger” Phillips coached the former Premiership goalkeeper at Howard University. He also declared a lengthy friendship with present FIFA developmental officer Howard McIntosh while he was a guest of CONCACAF president Jeffrey Webb at the 2013 Gold Cup finals and a sport symposium in the Cayman Islands.
However, the ex-Warrior insisted that there were tangible reasons to believe in the present TTFA administration too.
“I have known Sheldon as a friend for knocking on maybe 20 years now and I trust him,” said Hislop. “So when he says to me he is trying as hard as he can, I believe him. Nobody else in the group has that type of relationship or history with Sheldon, so I understand their apprehension.
“Tim Kee and Sheldon inherited an atrocious football administration from (Jack) Warner and (Richard Groden); this isn’t of their making…
“Although they have been late in paying us, in the year they have been in power we received more money than in the six years previous; and yet I feel we are being more aggressive with this administration than the last one which caused all the problems.”
Present Trinidad and Tobago international captain and Stoke City striker Kenwyne Jones rejected any suggestion that the players’ stance should depend on the personalities involved. He did not share Hislop’s opinion of the TTFA’s handling of the matter either.
“I do think after the initial talks they have become very lackadaisical and negligent in communicating with us,” Jones told Wired868. “They were the ones that offered the terms and now they’re not keeping up with their contractual agreement…
“We are not going by the characters of the men (involved), we are basing our judgements on what was discussed and what was put down with pen and paper. This has been an issue going on eight years now and it’s about time it ends in the proper way.”
Townley agreed with Hislop that the present TTFA administration has behaved more responsibly than its predecessors, who he described as “nasty, aggressive and vindictive.” However, he remains dissatisfied with the present football body.
“We have to give the TTFA credit for realising that the litigation had to end,” said Townley. “That is a good thing and something the old management would not have done. But having done a settlement, they could not honour it.
“So it is a much more responsible approach but it still hasn’t produced the payment and I don’t think it has been fully transparent and open either… It clearly isn’t quite the same as it was under Groden; but it is still a long way from perfect.”
If the World Cup players liquidate the TTFA, it could clear the way for the players to try to recover money owed to the football body, which could lead them towards Chaguanas West MP and former FIFA vice-president Jack Warner. But it will almost certainly be a long, protracted legal battle.
“It defies belief that Raymond Tim Kee and Sheldon Phillips haven’t sued Warner,” said Jack.
Phillips declined comment when asked about the likelihood of the TTFA taking legal action against Warner.
But Hislop said his teammates should recognise that Tim Kee and Phillips have more on their plates than the World Cup bonuses.
“As they try to get the funding to realise their own obligations to us, football in Trinidad and Tobago has to go on,” said Hislop. “I don’t feel Trinidad and Tobago football should stop so they can recognise their obligations to us.
“I feel we should play second fiddle to normal Trinidad and Tobago football business.”
Regardless of his personal stance, Hislop said he was unlikely to quit the legal action; even if the case does return to court.
“I don’t think we should go back to court,” he said. “It is a little early to pull that trigger right now. But I feel compelled to stand with the group in whatever it decides in the end.
“We have come this far working together.”
Jack, whose international career was ended prematurely as a result of the legal action, insisted that the players would continue fighting until they got their just due.
“It is embarrassing for Trinidad and Tobago’s football that its most successful group continues to be treated with disdain eight years later,” he said. “What did we do wrong? We worked our socks off and yet we still have to fight for what is ours.”
That fight appears to be inching closer to the High Court once more, unless the TTFA can come up with something concrete in the next two or three weeks.
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"What did you say your name was, honey?"
"M—Mary Williams."
"Honey, I thought you said it was Sarah when you first come in?"
"Oh, yes'm, I did. Sarah Mary Williams. Sarah's my first name. Some calls me Sarah, some calls me Mary."
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Cyah wait for we to get to the Next World Cup :devil:
To bad the girls didn't make it, coulda take that money, pay the guys...and then let the girls start some proceedings...
Let's see, take ttfa to court, use the money for operations to pay lawyers, and other proceedings then what is left distribute..hart take them to court...pay hart..then ttfa staff and other junior coaches go to court..sue the president, who happen to be mayor of POS, who then pays everyone from the city kitty, so MoS and MoIF steps in, use money earmarked to fix stadia, and new crime fighting measures from Germany and Virginia, putting those on hold..eventually paying everyone..using government money...wait..that is TT ppl money .. Oh well, business as usual...everybody hand in somebody else pocket...except the good ppl of T T, them still waiting at the end of the line...nobody pocket to put them hand in, not even their own, plenty hand in dey already, hi, lo, game, and nobody cyah hang jack
Gotta stop drinking that juice, starting to hallucinate again
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Billy Preston had a chune back in de day called "Nothing from nothing leaves nothing"
Dem man lookin to wring water from stone.
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So CONCACAF shit them up then ?
Ent that money was coming from CONCACAF?
Weary was right to ask de question de other day.
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At the end of the day Jack pocketed the money then resigned as TTFF Special Advisor and Bank manager and no one is asking him to pay back the money that he promoised the players.
Jack is really a Don in trute yes!! Let CONCACAF pay it back as they stole the money and not Jack!
But guest who was in charge of CONCACAF when the money was stolen even if we want to hold CONCACAF responsible? :whistling:
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Fact remains that those responsible have never been made to account.
For all of Tim-Kee and Phillips good intentions, the only way to separate yourself from the previous crew is to publicly show that you don't approve and will not let the missing millions be forgotten.
If Tim-Kee had aggressively pursued the previous cabal, maybe the players would have allowed more time for the settlement?
Yes, this was about money for the players, but they were wronged and I'm sure would be more understanding if there was an active pursuit of the perpetrators.
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Fact remains that those responsible have never been made to account.
For all of Tim-Kee and Phillips good intentions, the only way to separate yourself from the previous crew is to publicly show that you don't approve and will not let the missing millions be forgotten.
If Tim-Kee had aggressively pursued the previous cabal, maybe the players would have allowed more time for the settlement?
Yes, this was about money for the players, but they were wronged and I'm sure would be more understanding if there was an active pursuit of the perpetrators.
CO-SIGN. the fact that they gave Jack a free pass indicated that it was business as usual.
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Raymond Tim Kee trained under Jack Warner, so beware, he has the same mentality.
He is also using Sheldon Phillips as his personal bullet proof vest.
So the money they found from a hidden CONCACAF account disappeared?
I have a question. The TTFF changed their name to TTFA, why do they still have to pay Jack's debt?
I know BWIA used the same antics to get away from debt when they changed their name to Caribbean Airlines. Companies usually do this.
But if the TTFA is responsible for the debut, then they should really consider going after Jack Warner. What is Tim Kee afraid off? Jack is done, go after him that money would really help the federation.
Russell Latapy should take note.
And who is the player that dropped out, I am taking a guess its Hislop?
The TTFA is operating like the old TTFF.
Our teams is going into tournaments under prepared. Same results different personnel's.
Tim Kee has been here over a year now.
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Nobody gave JW a free pass because they still fighting him,from the time i see Kelvin Jack come to play in Football festival for Wire D868 i had a mind something was up,he eh coming here to play no game just so,nobody wants to see him any how.
They vex Latapy settle,the others want too but they under pressure,the only way this will end all of them will have to do what Latapy did,look how Yorke and the rest don't have any problems,talking about they want to ensure this never happens again and alyu eh get alyu money yet,every time we try to raise our heads alyu pushing it back down,study Jack Warner and don't move on.
Look at the strides Football are starting to make,people still finding all kind of things to say about the admin,MOS,Sportt etc etc about funding Football,alyu come back with this court shyt,Integrity Commission going and investigate JW after FIFA,CONCACAF,CFU,FBI,IRS,Customs,TTPS,Haiti etc etc give up,alyu eh find something have to be wrong,the man eh hiding no where he still travels and does what he wants,he don't even go to court.
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Raymond Tim Kee trained under Jack Warner, so beware, he has the same mentality.
He is also using Sheldon Phillips as his personal bullet proof vest.
So the money they found from a hidden CONCACAF account disappeared?
I have a question. The TTFF changed their name to TTFA, why do they still have to pay Jack's debt?
I know BWIA used the same antics to get away from debt when they changed their name to Caribbean Airlines. Companies usually do this.
But if the TTFA is responsible for the debut, then they should really consider going after Jack Warner. What is Tim Kee afraid off? Jack is done, go after him that money would really help the federation.
Russell Latapy should take note.
And who is the player that dropped out, I am taking a guess its Hislop?
The TTFA is operating like the old TTFF.
Our teams is going into tournaments under prepared. Same results different personnel's.
Tim Kee has been here over a year now.
Shaka did not say he would drop out. He say he willing to give them more time but he is standing wit the majority. I was never a Tim Kee fan because I saw him as part of the old Guard.
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Nobody gave JW a free pass because they still fighting him,from the time i see Kelvin Jack come to play in Football festival for Wire D868 i had a mind something was up,he eh coming here to play no game just so,nobody wants to see him any how.
They vex Latapy settle,the others want too but they under pressure,the only way this will end all of them will have to do what Latapy did,look how Yorke and the rest don't have any problems,talking about they want to ensure this never happens again and alyu eh get alyu money yet,every time we try to raise our heads alyu pushing it back down,study Jack Warner and don't move on.
Look at the strides Football are starting to make,people still finding all kind of things to say about the admin,MOS,Sportt etc etc about funding Football,alyu come back with this court shyt,Integrity Commission going and investigate JW after FIFA,CONCACAF,CFU,FBI,IRS,Customs,TTPS,Haiti etc etc give up,alyu eh find something have to be wrong,the man eh hiding no where he still travels and does what he wants,he don't even go to court.
FYI Kelvin was always coming to TNT he tried to make the wired game but could not get his flight change. If a man owe me money and he eh pay me and settle would a next man I would be upset. Deal wit the first set ah players before u deal wit Latas. As 4 d strides once Jack keep the money the strides would have been more because lots could have been done with that money. As for the Integrity Commission them more than a day late and a d ollar short.
You is Jack travel agent how you know he travelling. When last he leave TNT?
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Just because they settle with Latapy does not mean Latapy has been paid.
In fact they said they are looking into sources of funding to settle that debt, plus all other outstanding debts.
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Nobody gave JW a free pass because they still fighting him,from the time i see Kelvin Jack come to play in Football festival for Wire D868 i had a mind something was up,he eh coming here to play no game just so,nobody wants to see him any how.
They vex Latapy settle,the others want too but they under pressure,the only way this will end all of them will have to do what Latapy did,look how Yorke and the rest don't have any problems,talking about they want to ensure this never happens again and alyu eh get alyu money yet,every time we try to raise our heads alyu pushing it back down,study Jack Warner and don't move on.
Look at the strides Football are starting to make,people still finding all kind of things to say about the admin,MOS,Sportt etc etc about funding Football,alyu come back with this court shyt,Integrity Commission going and investigate JW after FIFA,CONCACAF,CFU,FBI,IRS,Customs,TTPS,Haiti etc etc give up,alyu eh find something have to be wrong,the man eh hiding no where he still travels and does what he wants,he don't even go to court.
Not quite sure if you're advocating a society that says "If you're not caught at the scene of the crime, we're not going to investigate or try to find you, even if we have tons of evidence that says you done the crime" and "If you make a legal agreement in the high court, as soon as you walk out the door, it's forgotten, because you're nice guys and gave some indestructible footballs to some friends of Coops"
I agree, TTFA have made great strides. I agree, TTFA have asked for more time and it was given. But at what point do you say "enough is enough"?
Because history shows that TTFF made dozens of promises that were broken and people kept giving them more time. And guess what? Those promises still haven't been fulfilled, yet the money is gone and the people making those promises are multi millionaires.
Coops, you should be ashamed to say what you have while your fellow coaches are still unpaid. You should be marching through the streets and pressuring TTFA to go after their money so they can truly rebuild T&T football without begging.
Can you imagine how much more Sheldon and Tim-Kee could achieve if they got back the 100 million plus that is rightfully theirs?
The simple fact is that the friend of your enemy is also your enemy, while the enemy of your enemy is your friend. TTFA need to decide who are their friends and who are their enemies. They could gain support from the players if they wish, and it won't necessarily need a payment to make that happen.
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Just because they settle with Latapy does not mean Latapy has been paid.
In fact they said they are looking into sources of funding to settle that debt, plus all other outstanding debts.
I would hope he join the line at the back. But settle the debts that you have an agreement 4 b4 you make new agreement. I wonder if Tim Kee does run he Guardian Life business like he does run the TTFF?
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Just because they settle with Latapy does not mean Latapy has been paid.
In fact they said they are looking into sources of funding to settle that debt, plus all other outstanding debts.
I thought d source was found? CONCACAF need to be contacted to find out if they paid the money and then we will know if a new Mandrake is in town. He making money disappear as well.
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A house which is divided shall not stand... :devil:
Everyone wants to paid,like right now
What will be left to ensure the future
We all have to make sacrifices for the benifit of the youth and overall well being of this GAME we love so very much
RASTFARI
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Nobody gave JW a free pass because they still fighting him,from the time i see Kelvin Jack come to play in Football festival for Wire D868 i had a mind something was up,he eh coming here to play no game just so,nobody wants to see him any how.
They vex Latapy settle,the others want too but they under pressure,the only way this will end all of them will have to do what Latapy did,look how Yorke and the rest don't have any problems,talking about they want to ensure this never happens again and alyu eh get alyu money yet,every time we try to raise our heads alyu pushing it back down,study Jack Warner and don't move on.
Look at the strides Football are starting to make,people still finding all kind of things to say about the admin,MOS,Sportt etc etc about funding Football,alyu come back with this court shyt,Integrity Commission going and investigate JW after FIFA,CONCACAF,CFU,FBI,IRS,Customs,TTPS,Haiti etc etc give up,alyu eh find something have to be wrong,the man eh hiding no where he still travels and does what he wants,he don't even go to court.
Ah take it you feel strongly about this.
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Billy Preston had a chune back in de day called "Nothing from nothing leaves nothing"
Dem man lookin to wring water from stone.
Exactly my thoughts.
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Fact remains that those responsible have never been made to account.
For all of Tim-Kee and Phillips good intentions, the only way to separate yourself from the previous crew is to publicly show that you don't approve and will not let the missing millions be forgotten.
If Tim-Kee had aggressively pursued the previous cabal, maybe the players would have allowed more time for the settlement?
Yes, this was about money for the players, but they were wronged and I'm sure would be more understanding if there was an active pursuit of the perpetrators.
Why didn't the players sue Jack if they really wanted "accountability"? You too close to yuh pardnahs and them to be able to see things objectively.
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Just because they settle with Latapy does not mean Latapy has been paid.
In fact they said they are looking into sources of funding to settle that debt, plus all other outstanding debts.
I would hope he join the line at the back. But settle the debts that you have an agreement 4 b4 you make new agreement. I wonder if Tim Kee does run he Guardian Life business like he does run the TTFF?
I understand your point. However, the new agreement shouldn't disturb the order of priority of the debt payments. Also, Latas went into this without a blindfold. He now has several pieces of paper with four corners to get where he trying to get. Nutten eh wrong wid that. Moreover, it was the right move to arrive at a settlement agreement.
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Fact remains that those responsible have never been made to account.
For all of Tim-Kee and Phillips good intentions, the only way to separate yourself from the previous crew is to publicly show that you don't approve and will not let the missing millions be forgotten.
If Tim-Kee had aggressively pursued the previous cabal, maybe the players would have allowed more time for the settlement?
Yes, this was about money for the players, but they were wronged and I'm sure would be more understanding if there was an active pursuit of the perpetrators.
Why didn't the players sue Jack if they really wanted "accountability"? You too close to yuh pardnahs and them to be able to see things objectively.
I'm surprised you asked that question Bakes. Jack was an employee of TTFF. Therefore his actions were representative of the body who employed him and they are legally responsible for his actions. The idea being that the players sue TTFF and TTFF go after Jack for the allegedly misappropriated funds.
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Just because they settle with Latapy does not mean Latapy has been paid.
In fact they said they are looking into sources of funding to settle that debt, plus all other outstanding debts.
I would hope he join the line at the back. But settle the debts that you have an agreement 4 b4 you make new agreement. I wonder if Tim Kee does run he Guardian Life business like he does run the TTFF?
I understand your point. However, the new agreement shouldn't disturb the order of prior of the debt payments. Also, Latas went into this without a blindfold. He now has several pieces of paper with four corners to get where he trying to get. Nutten eh wrong wid that. Moreover, it was the right move to arrive at a settlement agreement.
Yes but if u promise 2 pay me by x date u eh pay me and now I hear u agreeing to pay a next fella I must say is a parlour yuh running and let me close down d parlour and see how much I could get for the swetey yuh selling.
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:yawning:
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Fact remains that those responsible have never been made to account.
For all of Tim-Kee and Phillips good intentions, the only way to separate yourself from the previous crew is to publicly show that you don't approve and will not let the missing millions be forgotten.
If Tim-Kee had aggressively pursued the previous cabal, maybe the players would have allowed more time for the settlement?
Yes, this was about money for the players, but they were wronged and I'm sure would be more understanding if there was an active pursuit of the perpetrators.
Why didn't the players sue Jack if they really wanted "accountability"? You too close to yuh pardnahs and them to be able to see things objectively.
I'm surprised you asked that question Bakes. Jack was an employee of TTFF. Therefore his actions were representative of the body who employed him and they are legally responsible for his actions. The idea being that the players sue TTFF and TTFF go after Jack for the allegedly misappropriated funds.
Errr ... :-\.
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Billy Preston had a chune back in de day called "Nothing from nothing leaves nothing"
Dem man lookin to wring water from stone.
Pay me, I doh care whey yuh geh de money from?
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Billy Preston had a chune back in de day called "Nothing from nothing leaves nothing"
Dem man lookin to wring water from stone.
Pay me, I doh care whey yuh geh de money from?
Nah they should just say we try 2 get we money we eh get through but thank u massa Tim for d 1st payment. We get more than d 5000 so we should do some cartwheels.
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Nobody gave JW a free pass because they still fighting him,from the time i see Kelvin Jack come to play in Football festival for Wire D868 i had a mind something was up,he eh coming here to play no game just so,nobody wants to see him any how.
They vex Latapy settle,the others want too but they under pressure,the only way this will end all of them will have to do what Latapy did,look how Yorke and the rest don't have any problems,talking about they want to ensure this never happens again and alyu eh get alyu money yet,every time we try to raise our heads alyu pushing it back down,study Jack Warner and don't move on.
Look at the strides Football are starting to make,people still finding all kind of things to say about the admin,MOS,Sportt etc etc about funding Football,alyu come back with this court shyt,Integrity Commission going and investigate JW after FIFA,CONCACAF,CFU,FBI,IRS,Customs,TTPS,Haiti etc etc give up,alyu eh find something have to be wrong,the man eh hiding no where he still travels and does what he wants,he don't even go to court.
Tell dem Coop's. Let these 3rd world people take bull and smile. Damn good for nutten players who never do nutten for the country but want pay. Who tell dem to make de world cup? Is dem dam fault for being good enough to make ah world cup. They should have done like every other top T&T team did before them, just shit down theyself when it matters. Then they wouldna be figthing for no money, because they would have fun memories of Savannah football in good ol T&T. But they wanted to go and play in front the world in Germany, damn chupid good for nothing nowadays players.
Ah hope these young players watching good and learn not to stand up for what is dem own and for what dey believe in. Train hard eat ah doubles and chill out.
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How come the guardians of the game doh have ah responsibility to ensure the future? Why does the players have to be the one to ensure a future?
Again I will ask what is the purpose of the federation if everyone else needs to understand they [members] should not look to the federation for support but continue to "hold tight" and work hard?
I cannot get that point of view, sorry I just can't.
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Fact remains that those responsible have never been made to account.
For all of Tim-Kee and Phillips good intentions, the only way to separate yourself from the previous crew is to publicly show that you don't approve and will not let the missing millions be forgotten.
If Tim-Kee had aggressively pursued the previous cabal, maybe the players would have allowed more time for the settlement?
Yes, this was about money for the players, but they were wronged and I'm sure would be more understanding if there was an active pursuit of the perpetrators.
Why didn't the players sue Jack if they really wanted "accountability"? You too close to yuh pardnahs and them to be able to see things objectively.
I'm surprised you asked that question Bakes. Jack was an employee of TTFF. Therefore his actions were representative of the body who employed him and they are legally responsible for his actions. The idea being that the players sue TTFF and TTFF go after Jack for the allegedly misappropriated funds.
:beermug: :beermug:
Only problem here is that Tim Lee was groomed under Jack and he doesn't want to upset his mentor?! :-\
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Nobody gave JW a free pass because they still fighting him,from the time i see Kelvin Jack come to play in Football festival for Wire D868 i had a mind something was up,he eh coming here to play no game just so,nobody wants to see him any how.
They vex Latapy settle,the others want too but they under pressure,the only way this will end all of them will have to do what Latapy did,look how Yorke and the rest don't have any problems,talking about they want to ensure this never happens again and alyu eh get alyu money yet,every time we try to raise our heads alyu pushing it back down,study Jack Warner and don't move on.
Look at the strides Football are starting to make,people still finding all kind of things to say about the admin,MOS,Sportt etc etc about funding Football,alyu come back with this court shyt,Integrity Commission going and investigate JW after FIFA,CONCACAF,CFU,FBI,IRS,Customs,TTPS,Haiti etc etc give up,alyu eh find something have to be wrong,the man eh hiding no where he still travels and does what he wants,he don't even go to court.
Tell dem Coop's. Let these 3rd world people take bull and smile. Damn good for nutten players who never do nutten for the country but want pay. Who tell dem to make de world cup? Is dem dam fault for being good enough to make ah world cup. They should have done like every other top T&T team did before them, just shit down theyself when it matters. Then they wouldna be figthing for no money, because they would have fun memories of Savannah football in good ol T&T. But they wanted to go and play in front the world in Germany, damn chupid good for nothing nowadays players.
Ah hope these young players watching good and learn not to stand up for what is dem own and for what dey believe in. Train hard eat ah doubles and chill out.
Well said Elan, seems to be a good summary of what Coop's is advocating in his post. :thumbsup:
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How come the guardians of the game doh have ah responsibility to ensure the future? Why does the players have to be the one to ensure a future?
Again I will ask what is the purpose of the federation if everyone else needs to understand they [members] should not look to the federation for support but continue to "hold tight" and work hard?
I cannot get that point of view, sorry I just can't.
Mostly in agreement Elan, but the PFAs and LMAs are essential to healthy growth in a country's football precisely because they counter-balance the power of the FA - "Who guard de guards?". The lack of a powerful PFA let Jack get away with the crimes he committed, so winning court cases and demanding the money are important for the future growth of our national team.
Hopefully a powerful PFA can come out of this, otherwise there's nothing to stop the next Jack Warner, the government and police being what they are
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*sigh*........ah tired.....
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I'm surprised you asked that question Bakes. Jack was an employee of TTFF. Therefore his actions were representative of the body who employed him and they are legally responsible for his actions. The idea being that the players sue TTFF and TTFF go after Jack for the allegedly misappropriated funds.
Jack was not an employee at the time both he and the TTFF held him out to be a "Special Advisor." Under agency theory the TTFF are responsible for the representations he made to the players and any harm that results. The fact that you are 'surprised' that I asked that question should have been your first clue that maybe you didn't truly appreciate it. During the civil suit when Jack made it clear he wasn't coming as a witness, the judge flat out (if memory serves correct) suggested to Townley that Jack be made a party to the suit... that is to say, either the TTFF sue him as what's called a Third Party Plaintiff, or have the Players petition to have him joined as a necessary party to the suit. Groden shucked and jived and made it clear the TTFF wasn't going to sue Jack, therefore it was incumbent on the Players to join him to the suit. They never did that, but are now being ruthless in going after the TTFA who are actually trying in earnest to right the ship.
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I'm surprised you asked that question Bakes. Jack was an employee of TTFF. Therefore his actions were representative of the body who employed him and they are legally responsible for his actions. The idea being that the players sue TTFF and TTFF go after Jack for the allegedly misappropriated funds.
Jack was not an employee at the time both he and the TTFF held him out to be a "Special Advisor." Under agency theory the TTFF are responsible for the representations he made to the players and any harm that results. The fact that you are 'surprised' that I asked that question should have been your first clue that maybe you didn't truly appreciate it. During the civil suit when Jack made it clear he wasn't coming as a witness, the judge flat out (if memory serves correct) suggested to Townley that Jack be made a party to the suit... that is to say, either the TTFF sue him as what's called a Third Party Plaintiff, or have the Players petition to have him joined as a necessary party to the suit. Groden shucked and jived and made it clear the TTFF wasn't going to sue Jack, therefore it was incumbent on the Players to join him to the suit. They never did that, but are now being ruthless in going after the TTFA who are actually trying in earnest to right the ship.
I'm surprised you asked that question Bakes. Jack was an employee of TTFF. Therefore his actions were representative of the body who employed him and they are legally responsible for his actions. The idea being that the players sue TTFF and TTFF go after Jack for the allegedly misappropriated funds.
Jack was not an employee at the time both he and the TTFF held him out to be a "Special Advisor." Under agency theory the TTFF are responsible for the representations he made to the players and any harm that results. The fact that you are 'surprised' that I asked that question should have been your first clue that maybe you didn't truly appreciate it. During the civil suit when Jack made it clear he wasn't coming as a witness, the judge flat out (if memory serves correct) suggested to Townley that Jack be made a party to the suit... that is to say, either the TTFF sue him as what's called a Third Party Plaintiff, or have the Players petition to have him joined as a necessary party to the suit. Groden shucked and jived and made it clear the TTFF wasn't going to sue Jack, therefore it was incumbent on the Players to join him to the suit. They never did that, but are now being ruthless in going after the TTFA who are actually trying in earnest to right the ship.
:beermug: :beermug: :beermug: :beermug: now tell me,what is so hard for people to understand?all they are seeing is getting Jack hang,i don't know law but i have a bit of common sense and i'm saying this for the longest while,i appreciate what these guys have done for our Football but as Jack said they are greedy,they was offered something they said no,nobody eh blackmail them because Kenwyne,Carlos etc never stop playing for T&T,they blank T&T thinking we could not play without them,nobody talks about the 06 Warriors in T&T everything is about the Strike Squad eg the Women just came back from the failed WC qualifications and is guys like Clayton Morris and Leonson Lewis was invited to the reception at the Hilton,where are our WC heroes?they should be our biggest motivation since they qualified.
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I'm surprised you asked that question Bakes. Jack was an employee of TTFF. Therefore his actions were representative of the body who employed him and they are legally responsible for his actions. The idea being that the players sue TTFF and TTFF go after Jack for the allegedly misappropriated funds.
Jack was not an employee at the time both he and the TTFF held him out to be a "Special Advisor." Under agency theory the TTFF are responsible for the representations he made to the players and any harm that results. The fact that you are 'surprised' that I asked that question should have been your first clue that maybe you didn't truly appreciate it. During the civil suit when Jack made it clear he wasn't coming as a witness, the judge flat out (if memory serves correct) suggested to Townley that Jack be made a party to the suit... that is to say, either the TTFF sue him as what's called a Third Party Plaintiff, or have the Players petition to have him joined as a necessary party to the suit. Groden shucked and jived and made it clear the TTFF wasn't going to sue Jack, therefore it was incumbent on the Players to join him to the suit. They never did that, but are now being ruthless in going after the TTFA who are actually trying in earnest to right the ship.
I'm surprised you asked that question Bakes. Jack was an employee of TTFF. Therefore his actions were representative of the body who employed him and they are legally responsible for his actions. The idea being that the players sue TTFF and TTFF go after Jack for the allegedly misappropriated funds.
Jack was not an employee at the time both he and the TTFF held him out to be a "Special Advisor." Under agency theory the TTFF are responsible for the representations he made to the players and any harm that results. The fact that you are 'surprised' that I asked that question should have been your first clue that maybe you didn't truly appreciate it. During the civil suit when Jack made it clear he wasn't coming as a witness, the judge flat out (if memory serves correct) suggested to Townley that Jack be made a party to the suit... that is to say, either the TTFF sue him as what's called a Third Party Plaintiff, or have the Players petition to have him joined as a necessary party to the suit. Groden shucked and jived and made it clear the TTFF wasn't going to sue Jack, therefore it was incumbent on the Players to join him to the suit. They never did that, but are now being ruthless in going after the TTFA who are actually trying in earnest to right the ship.
:beermug: :beermug: :beermug: :beermug: now tell me,what is so hard for people to understand?all they are seeing is getting Jack hang,i don't know law but i have a bit of common sense and i'm saying this for the longest while,i appreciate what these guys have done for our Football but as Jack said they are greedy,they was offered something they said no,nobody eh blackmail them because Kenwyne,Carlos etc never stop playing for T&T,they blank T&T thinking we could not play without them,nobody talks about the 06 Warriors in T&T everything is about the Strike Squad eg the Women just came back from the failed WC qualifications and is guys like Clayton Morris and Leonson Lewis was invited to the reception at the Hilton,where are our WC heroes?they should be our biggest motivation since they qualified.
Tell them Coop's,failure de bunch ah dem who qualify for the WC. Greedy, tiefing, useless bunch ah has been. Look how T&T football bright without them.
The only thing we missing is to bring JW back in charge, then is real glory days. JW the hardest worker in T&T. How come they eh build ah statue of JW yet? Unappreciative set ah people in that country.
"Target, target, Strike squad."
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:beermug: :beermug: :beermug: :beermug: now tell me,what is so hard for people to understand?all they are seeing is getting Jack hang,i don't know law but i have a bit of common sense and i'm saying this for the longest while,i appreciate what these guys have done for our Football but as Jack said they are greedy,they was offered something they said no,nobody eh blackmail them because Kenwyne,Carlos etc never stop playing for T&T,they blank T&T thinking we could not play without them,nobody talks about the 06 Warriors in T&T everything is about the Strike Squad eg the Women just came back from the failed WC qualifications and is guys like Clayton Morris and Leonson Lewis was invited to the reception at the Hilton,where are our WC heroes?they should be our biggest motivation since they qualified.
I actually disagree with the bolded. These fellas not 'greedy', a promise was made to them, a contract formed as a result, the TTFF owed them the money fair and square. They have every right to agitate for the rest of the money that is owed to them. I only 'faulting' them in this instance for being unreasonable. If the TTFA don't have the funds to pay and they take them to court how would that benefit them? The court orders another levy, they go with police to the TTFA office and seize some furniture, more computers and a few balls? Steups. Just be reasonable and work with the people. I like Kelvin Jack but I really not with him the way he characterizing this regime as being same as the old.
I also disagree that the players "blank TnT"... how they could blank TnT if they were never called up?? Sancho, Jack... all of them made themselves available for selection but they were never selected. You calling Kenwyne and Carlos, Kenwyne and Carlos didn't take part in the suit. Yuh saying they wasn't "blackmailed" (blacklisted), but pick sense from common sense: all the players who sued were never again called up, despite making themselves available. The players who DID NOT sue, get pick time after time. You seriously saying there wasn't a blacklist Coop's?
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Bakes, yuh have de patience of Job......
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*sigh*........ah tired.....
..... sigh ...... cosign.
VB
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nobody eh blackmail them because Kenwyne,Carlos etc never stop playing for T&T,they blank T&T thinking we could not play without them
FACT: De three biggest agitators (Brent Sancho, Kelvin Jack, Shaka Hislop) never represented T&T again after the 2006 World Cup.
Atiba Charles' last game for T&T was November 15, 2006 against Austria.
Evans Wise's last game for T&T was August 9, 2006 against Japan.
Despite T&T playing 14 games (including de Gold Cup) in 2007, the rest of de suing players (Avery, Collin, Cornell, Cyd, Kenwyne, Stern, Whitley, and Wolfe) were never called up.
The players slowly started being called back from February 6, 2008 for the game against Guadeloupe. All in all the players were out of national colors between 1-2 years.
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nobody eh blackmail them because Kenwyne,Carlos etc never stop playing for T&T,they blank T&T thinking we could not play without them
FACT: De three biggest agitators (Brent Sancho, Kelvin Jack, Shaka Hislop) never represented T&T again after the 2006 World Cup.
Atiba Charles' last game for T&T was November 15, 2006 against Austria.
Evans Wise's last game for T&T was August 9, 2006 against Japan.
Despite T&T playing 14 games (including de Gold Cup) in 2007, the rest of de suing players (Avery, Collin, Cornell, Cyd, Kenwyne, Stern, Whitley, and Wolfe) were never called up.
The players slowly started being called back from February 6, 2008 for the game against Guadeloupe. All in all the players were out of national colors between 1-2 years.
Thanks 4 clearing that up.
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nobody eh blackmail them because Kenwyne,Carlos etc never stop playing for T&T,they blank T&T thinking we could not play without them
FACT: De three biggest agitators (Brent Sancho, Kelvin Jack, Shaka Hislop) never represented T&T again after the 2006 World Cup.
Atiba Charles' last game for T&T was November 15, 2006 against Austria.
Evans Wise's last game for T&T was August 9, 2006 against Japan.
Despite T&T playing 14 games (including de Gold Cup) in 2007, the rest of de suing players (Avery, Collin, Cornell, Cyd, Kenwyne, Stern, Whitley, and Wolfe) were never called up.
The players slowly started being called back from February 6, 2008 for the game against Guadeloupe. All in all the players were out of national colors between 1-2 years.
Alright Tallman,answer me these questions,why is it half the team accepted what was offered and the other half didn't?was it only half knew about the offer that was made?this was suppose to be a closely nitted team that's why they qualified,how did this happen?where is the captain/leader in all of this? Why should u call players that have u in court?
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nobody eh blackmail them because Kenwyne,Carlos etc never stop playing for T&T,they blank T&T thinking we could not play without them
FACT: De three biggest agitators (Brent Sancho, Kelvin Jack, Shaka Hislop) never represented T&T again after the 2006 World Cup.
Atiba Charles' last game for T&T was November 15, 2006 against Austria.
Evans Wise's last game for T&T was August 9, 2006 against Japan.
Despite T&T playing 14 games (including de Gold Cup) in 2007, the rest of de suing players (Avery, Collin, Cornell, Cyd, Kenwyne, Stern, Whitley, and Wolfe) were never called up.
The players slowly started being called back from February 6, 2008 for the game against Guadeloupe. All in all the players were out of national colors between 1-2 years.
Alright Tallman,answer me these questions,why is it half the team accepted what was offered and the other half didn't?was it only half knew about the offer that was made?this was suppose to be a closely nitted team that's why they qualified,how did this happen?where is the captain/leader in all of this? Why should u call players that have u in court?
Read this: World Cup bonus-gate blow-by-blow (http://www.socawarriors.net/mens-senior-team/senior-team-news/senior-team-news/6382-world-cup-bonus-gate-blow-by-blow.html)
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nobody eh blackmail them because Kenwyne,Carlos etc never stop playing for T&T,they blank T&T thinking we could not play without them
FACT: De three biggest agitators (Brent Sancho, Kelvin Jack, Shaka Hislop) never represented T&T again after the 2006 World Cup.
Atiba Charles' last game for T&T was November 15, 2006 against Austria.
Evans Wise's last game for T&T was August 9, 2006 against Japan.
Despite T&T playing 14 games (including de Gold Cup) in 2007, the rest of de suing players (Avery, Collin, Cornell, Cyd, Kenwyne, Stern, Whitley, and Wolfe) were never called up.
The players slowly started being called back from February 6, 2008 for the game against Guadeloupe. All in all the players were out of national colors between 1-2 years.
Alright Tallman,answer me these questions,why is it half the team accepted what was offered and the other half didn't?was it only half knew about the offer that was made?this was suppose to be a closely nitted team that's why they qualified,how did this happen?where is the captain/leader in all of this? Why should u call players that have u in court?
Coops, I think you'll find that there were 7 players who accepted the offer: Dwight (the captain who you called for, who then was given a US$50,000 per month ambassadors role, apparently), Latapy who was groomed for the National Team Coach position, Carlos, Dennis, Scotty, Ince who were represented by Mike Berry who was also the Player Liaison for TTFF. Can't remember the last player, so maybe he just liked the deal!
You're right. "Why call players who have you in court?" But before you take that moral high ground, how about "why make a deal with players and then renege on it?" If you didn't go back on your word, no one would be in court.
Remember, the players didn't start this whole scene. They were offered less than TT$5,000. Even at the original 30% agreement, they were being collectively cheated out of maybe TT$1 million.
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It's interesting to hear Dennis Lawrence's take on all of this...which would be a good interview for someone to conduct. However, in a conversation with him when he was last in Trini, he essentially stated that he feels fortunate to have had the opportunity to have played in a World Cup. He also believes that at the end of the day he knew that the World Cup was not an opportunity to become wealthy, but rather a chance to experience something that is considered to be a once in a life time chance, he also feels like it was an amazing opportunity to give the country something to feel good about. In essence, he knew that his future and financial security was something that he needed to secure regardless of what the outcome of the World Cup would have been - hence his desired ambition to get into coaching. He mentioned how fortunate some were in that team because baring injury some players may not have even taken the field...I got the distinct impression that he wanted nothing to do with the events that followed instead to concentrate on making a career once his football was finished. I remember telling him that I looked back on a similar experience involving a team that qualified for a lesser tournament, the first for us at that level and having an opportunity to personally see how much Carib and "corporate friends" of that team contributed to that qualification and eventual participation....I also mentioned that those very young players did not receive a single dollar in what was, an almost two year process - had those guys known better, they should have gone for the jugular!!! That said money or no money - would have done it all over again.
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nobody eh blackmail them because Kenwyne,Carlos etc never stop playing for T&T,they blank T&T thinking we could not play without them
FACT: De three biggest agitators (Brent Sancho, Kelvin Jack, Shaka Hislop) never represented T&T again after the 2006 World Cup.
Atiba Charles' last game for T&T was November 15, 2006 against Austria.
Evans Wise's last game for T&T was August 9, 2006 against Japan.
Despite T&T playing 14 games (including de Gold Cup) in 2007, the rest of de suing players (Avery, Collin, Cornell, Cyd, Kenwyne, Stern, Whitley, and Wolfe) were never called up.
The players slowly started being called back from February 6, 2008 for the game against Guadeloupe. All in all the players were out of national colors between 1-2 years.
Alright Tallman,answer me these questions,why is it half the team accepted what was offered and the other half didn't?was it only half knew about the offer that was made?this was suppose to be a closely nitted team that's why they qualified,how did this happen?where is the captain/leader in all of this? Why should u call players that have u in court?
Coops, I think you'll find that there were 7 players who accepted the offer: Dwight (the captain who you called for, who then was given a US$50,000 per month ambassadors role, apparently), Latapy who was groomed for the National Team Coach position, Carlos, Dennis, Scotty, Ince who were represented by Mike Berry who was also the Player Liaison for TTFF. Can't remember the last player, so maybe he just liked the deal!
You're right. "Why call players who have you in court?" But before you take that moral high ground, how about "why make a deal with players and then renege on it?" If you didn't go back on your word, no one would be in court.
Remember, the players didn't start this whole scene. They were offered less than TT$5,000. Even at the original 30% agreement, they were being collectively cheated out of maybe TT$1 million.
My memory not so good,but didn't they get $1million TT each in some bond or something like that from the government?
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Denzil who was promised d captaincy and yes they got a million TT from d govt.
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It's interesting to hear Dennis Lawrence's take on all of this...which would be a good interview for someone to conduct. However, in a conversation with him when he was last in Trini, he essentially stated that he feels fortunate to have had the opportunity to have played in a World Cup. He also believes that at the end of the day he knew that the World Cup was not an opportunity to become wealthy, but rather a chance to experience something that is considered to be a once in a life time chance, he also feels like it was an amazing opportunity to give the country something to feel good about. In essence, he knew that his future and financial security was something that he needed to secure regardless of what the outcome of the World Cup would have been - hence his desired ambition to get into coaching. He mentioned how fortunate some were in that team because baring injury some players may not have even taken the field...I got the distinct impression that he wanted nothing to do with the events that followed instead to concentrate on making a career once his football was finished. I remember telling him that I looked back on a similar experience involving a team that qualified for a lesser tournament, the first for us at that level and having an opportunity to personally see how much Carib and "corporate friends" of that team contributed to that qualification and eventual participation....I also mentioned that those very young players did not receive a single dollar in what was, an almost two year process - had those guys known better, they should have gone for the jugular!!! That said money or no money - would have done it all over again.
As much as I like Dennis and can appreciate his perspective on this, I'm not sure it really adds much to the discussion. Dennis' situation was different then and is different now from a lot of the players involved in the suit. No one could have seen things playing out for him how it did, and I remain genuinely happy for and proud of him. I also don't believe by discussing his situation that he wasn't trying to say anything negative about those involved in the suit. Save for Shaka, and maybe Jack though, most of these fellas wasn't going to see another opportunity to get that much money any time soon.
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He had nothing but great things to say about his teammates...
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He had nothing but great things to say about his teammates...
I was privileged enough to be liming with the 2006 guys when we launched FPATT in T&T. We were moving in convoy from Hasely Crawford (think T&T played Mexico U23), to Woodford Cafe and then on to various watering holes. At one point Dennis asked me to ride with him. When I got into the car, instead of following the others he asked me to read something and give my opinion. It was his press release announcing his retirement from international football.
We talked about it for a few minutes and my overall impression was that he was tired of the whole situation. He was getting pressure to accept a deal, pressure from his team mates to go to court. He felt dis loyal to the players yet he also felt loyalty to Jack and his agent. This big man was completely torn in two.
Dennis is a man of great integrity and loyalty but he felt he was in an impossible situation.
Such is his personality that he managed to remove himself without earning the wrath of either party. That is a testament to the respect he has earned.
But I know he was hurt and will always feel that pain in some way.
He is just one piece of the collateral damage that has occurred from this dispute.
I am so pleased that he has done well for himself.
Top man.
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Ah trying to figure out who scheme better.
1. Madoff's? The essence of his scheme was to deposit client money into a Chase account, rather than invest it and generate steady returns as clients had believed. When clients wanted their money, "I used the money in the Chase Manhattan bank account that belonged to them or other clients to pay the requested funds," he told the court. :worried:
2. The Greedy/Scamps/The Special Advisor's version of the TTFF? Open up a CONCACAF office inside this modest building in downtown Port of Spain. Have CONCACAF pay you nearly a third of a million dollars a year for you to stay in your office, while you are the landlord of the building that office is in. Basically, you paying 25,000 - 40,000 dollars a month in payments to you. :worried:
3. The TurnKee/Phillips Screwdriver version of the TTFF? I promise to pay you tomorrow if I could get the same CONCACAF organization that the Special Advisor used, to pay me today. :rotfl:
Allyuh very promising boy.
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Nobody gave JW a free pass because they still fighting him,from the time i see Kelvin Jack come to play in Football festival for Wire D868 i had a mind something was up,he eh coming here to play no game just so,nobody wants to see him any how.
They vex Latapy settle,the others want too but they under pressure,the only way this will end all of them will have to do what Latapy did,look how Yorke and the rest don't have any problems,talking about they want to ensure this never happens again and alyu eh get alyu money yet,every time we try to raise our heads alyu pushing it back down,study Jack Warner and don't move on.
Look at the strides Football are starting to make,people still finding all kind of things to say about the admin,MOS,Sportt etc etc about funding Football,alyu come back with this court shyt,Integrity Commission going and investigate JW after FIFA,CONCACAF,CFU,FBI,IRS,Customs,TTPS,Haiti etc etc give up,alyu eh find something have to be wrong,the man eh hiding no where he still travels and does what he wants,he don't even go to court.
Mr Coops, you are on spot here and you are 100% correct.
There is no way in hell Kelvin Jack who is broke taking his little money he has left to buy a $2,500 USD ticket to come play a fete match game in T&T. He came here to start trouble because he is desperate. Hislop laughs at these guys behind their backs, same with Yorke and Lawrence.
Secondly, I know Tim Kee personally, I have dealt with him many times in the past and I know Sheldon Phillips a little but know his farther Lincoln very well and if he is anything like his father, then Jack Warner has nothing to worry about.
Lincoln was a smart guy, he love his family and would do anything for them even if that means kissing up to the boss or throwing his friends under the buss. As for Tim Kee, he is another weak heart. None of which can touch Jack, so as many here talking about let the TTFA go after Jack, I say bring it on !!!!!! They don't have the money to pay for a taxi to reach the stadium, I doubt they have the money to fight Jack.
Thirdly, I would bet my last buck, the 2006 WC players NOT closing down T&T football, they could huff and bluff all they like, they not doing it, simply because there will be no winner and they will only get the bad name in the end, no one will remember anything else and they still would not get a dime.
How can 16 players, now 15 go after a broke federation?
Tim Kee, I admire you very much, keep writing those ghost checks and keep waiting for Concacaf, FIFA and the government to pay your bills. Keep waiting for handouts. I am sure all your staffs are up to date with their pay.
These guys sit in their office with no plans or idea how to generate money, they couldn't even get the Akeem Adams contribution right and thank God for this site who led the way for picking up donations for the kid or else they would have been hiding.
How can you run a federation depending on other people?
Why not hire a professional marketing company to help?
You guys wanted Jack out and now where is the change?
Are you happy now?
At least Jack helped.
The players should have took the money Jack was offering them when the case went to court. I must admit, the 5,000 was ridiculous.
Now you guys have Tim Kee, the savior and Sheldon, a missionary sent here to finish his father job.
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The son of Jack defends Jack, surprised.....
Mate you tell Jack, who you seem to know so well, to pay back the damn money he stole and maybe we can institute some of these wonderful suggestions. You're defending a crook who bankrupted the TTFA and stole a whole damn building off the country.
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Tallman, Bakes, Tiresais et al. who responding to Coop's all yuh have de patience of Job......I doh have the time nor the patience......
Coop's on here long enough to know how this thing went down......to pretend otherwise is just outright *searching for the right word......* blasphemy?? duttiness?? mischievousness??
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The son of Jack defends Jack, surprised.....
Mate you tell Jack, who you seem to know so well, to pay back the damn money he stole and maybe we can institute some of these wonderful suggestions. You're defending a crook who bankrupted the TTFA and stole a whole damn building off the country.
Do not blame Jack because half of these guys did not go to school.
Or a mayor is TTFA head but Jack couldn't hold the two positions now no one seem to care Tim Kee is the mayor and TTFA head.
Judge fairly Pal.
The USSF kicked out Mr Sheldon from their federation because he was ineffective.
Tim Kee worked under Jack Warner for over a decade. If Jack is bad so to is Tim Kee, he is no different then because the same is still happening.
The only civilized poster here seems to be Coops.
Everyone attacking me for posting facts.
And I did say $5,000 was ridiculous, even Jack said that after.
No clubs wants a trouble maker that is the reason since the court case Sancho and Kelvin Jack were dropped and clueless. To this day Kelvin Jack is still making trouble. All he is concerns is about himself. They could blast Jack all they want but he did more for his country that any of them and still wants to do but what Kelvin Jack doing?
What pisses me off to is, Evens Wise, he came to T&T and played 4 games and what millions. He did not even help the team get to the World Cup. He told me he will return to St Anns and help his community, all broken promises, so they ain't better. Its every man for them self.
I have to give Sancho credit though, at least he is doing something positive with Central FC.
Jones is still playing for his country. Glen also.
But where is the rest? Gray, Charles, Wolfe, Stern, Avery, Samuel, Whitley etc?
What is Hislop doing? He has a big position in ESPN that he looks out of position with because he sounds like a fake Trini who cannot talk football like the rest, boring if you ask me, but what is he doing to help his country? Where the the Union they promise to build? He should get ESPN to air some T&T games? or become a sponsor?
These guys are for themselves.
Come on guys, Jack is not your enemy here.
On a different note, I am advising everyone of you here to vote for Jack next election. You cannot be happy with the way Kamla is running down our county.
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The son of Jack defends Jack, surprised.....
Mate you tell Jack, who you seem to know so well, to pay back the damn money he stole and maybe we can institute some of these wonderful suggestions. You're defending a crook who bankrupted the TTFA and stole a whole damn building off the country.
Do not blame Jack because half of these guys did not go to school.
Or a mayor is TTFA head but Jack couldn't hold the two positions now no one seem to care Tim Kee is the mayor and TTFA head.
Judge fairly Pal.
The USSF kicked out Mr Sheldon from their federation because he was ineffective.
Tim Kee worked under Jack Warner for over a decade. If Jack is bad so to is Tim Kee, he is no different then because the same is still happening.
The only civilized poster here seems to be Coops.
Everyone attacking me for posting facts.
And I did say $5,000 was ridiculous, even Jack said that after.
No clubs wants a trouble maker that is the reason since the court case Sancho and Kelvin Jack were dropped and clueless. To this day Kelvin Jack is still making trouble. All he is concerns is about himself. They could blast Jack all they want but he did more for his country that any of them and still wants to do but what Kelvin Jack doing?
What pisses me off to is, Evens Wise, he came to T&T and played 4 games and what millions. He did not even help the team get to the World Cup. He told me he will return to St Anns and help his community, all broken promises, so they ain't better. Its every man for them self.
I have to give Sancho credit though, at least he is doing something positive with Central FC.
Jones is still playing for his country. Glen also.
But where is the rest? Gray, Charles, Wolfe, Stern, Avery, Samuel, Whitley etc?
What is Hislop doing? He has a big position in ESPN that he looks out of position with because he sounds like a fake Trini who cannot talk football like the rest, boring if you ask me, but what is he doing to help his country? Where the the Union they promise to build? He should get ESPN to air some T&T games? or become a sponsor?
These guys are for themselves.
Come on guys, Jack is not your enemy here.
On a different note, I am advising everyone of you here to vote for Jack next election. You cannot be happy with the way Kamla is running down our county.
On the two position front, I agree, and raised that at the time
As for Jack - you can't be serious. Is your head in the sand? He's a crook, corrupt scumbag, low-life. He stole of the many to favour his few. He has stolen the Dr. Joăo Havelange Centre of Excellence from Trinidad and Tobago and bankrupts the TTFA. How do you defend this guy? You're clearly part of the problem. They guy isn't fit to run a soup kitchen let alone a country - I'd rather nominate my dead cat - at least she couldn't do as much harm as Warner.
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FS, i see where u mentioned an FPATT was launched in T&T,could u tell the forum what's the status of that FPATT,what kind of membership it has,who is in control,are they affiliated to the TTFA,what have they done so far for Footballers in T&T,are players better off today than yesterday.
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FS, i see where u mentioned an FPATT was launched in T&T,could u tell the forum what's the status of that FPATT,what kind of membership it has,who is in control,are they affiliated to the TTFA,what have they done so far for Footballers in T&T,are players better off today than yesterday.
Coop's why yuh instigating? The situation with FPATT has been explored and documented on this site for all, even you to see. You know the efforts made and the frustrations experienced by those trying to promote the effort.
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Tallman, Bakes, Tiresais et al. who responding to Coop's all yuh have de patience of Job......I doh have the time nor the patience......
Coop's on here long enough to know how this thing went down......to pretend otherwise is just outright *searching for the right word......* blasphemy?? duttiness?? mischievousness??
Brownsugar,i know u went to court and all that with these guys so i guess u know how this thing went down.Have u ever spoken to any of the guys involved in this case?have u ever spoken to JW,Camps or Groden?if not u are just baseing your views/ideas on what u read from these guys on here,if u were to talk to the players involved u will get a different view from all of them,why is it half accept and half didn't?it have players we have never heard anything from they just sitting down waiting to collect,imagine Evans Wise how many time he ever played for T&T,did he play in any WC games?since the WC have u ever heard from him?he too fighting for money in court,that's one of our heroes.
When i lived in the US i used to buy what was sold to me on here but i'm home and able to talk too and discuss things personally with all the TTFA admin etc etc but i will not put anything i've discussed on here,i find out things for my personal use/knowledge,you all want to listen to ppl like FS,Sancho,Fenwick (like he stop talking),Dreamer,Socapro,Elan etc yes these guys know what went down but i have to pick sense from nonsense.It have guys who was on here just like u and me wrangleing with the TTFA and today they are actually working for the same TTFA they once they once wrangled with,i wonder if their views have changed.
As i've always said i'm not a fan of T&T Football i am T&T Football,if u watched the sports news last night u will see what took place on the North Coast yesterday,nothing like that has ever happened in that area before,i had the Capt of our Womens national team,the girl that just scored the two goals in that all important game for our U 20 plus a couple others at the opening Clinic,i just want to show you all i'm still making a contribution to Football in the country,they are asking for my assistance and i will give it as long as my health permits,it does not matter wheather it's JW or Tim Kee once is Football there are no politics with me.
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Tallman, Bakes, Tiresais et al. who responding to Coop's all yuh have de patience of Job......I doh have the time nor the patience......
Coop's on here long enough to know how this thing went down......to pretend otherwise is just outright *searching for the right word......* blasphemy?? duttiness?? mischievousness??
Brownsugar,i know u went to court and all that with these guys so i guess u know how this thing went down.Have u ever spoken to any of the guys involved in this case?have u ever spoken to JW,Camps or Groden?if not u are just baseing your views/ideas on what u read from these guys on here,if u were to talk to the players involved u will get a different view from all of them,why is it half accept and half didn't?it have players we have never heard anything from they just sitting down waiting to collect,imagine Evans Wise how many time he ever played for T&T,did he play in any WC games?since the WC have u ever heard from him?he too fighting for money in court,that's one of our heroes.
When i lived in the US i used to buy what was sold to me on here but i'm home and able to talk too and discuss things personally with all the TTFA admin etc etc but i will not put anything i've discussed on here,i find out things for my personal use/knowledge,you all want to listen to ppl like FS,Sancho,Fenwick (like he stop talking),Dreamer,Socapro,Elan etc yes these guys know what went down but i have to pick sense from nonsense.It have guys who was on here just like u and me wrangleing with the TTFA and today they are actually working for the same TTFA they once they once wrangled with,i wonder if their views have changed.
As i've always said i'm not a fan of T&T Football i am T&T Football,if u watched the sports news last night u will see what took place on the North Coast yesterday,nothing like that has ever happened in that area before,i had the Capt of our Womens national team,the girl that just scored the two goals in that all important game for our U 20 plus a couple others at the opening Clinic,i just want to show you all i'm still making a contribution to Football in the country,they are asking for my assistance and i will give it as long as my health permits,it does not matter wheather it's JW or Tim Kee once is Football there are no politics with me.
Coops, you can talk to whoever you like and believe them if you want. You can go to Golden Grove prison where every single inmate is actually innocent and framed by the police.
I personally, like to work with facts. So I attended court as much as I could.
Mr Warner, Mr Camps and Mr Groden have had ample opportunity to give their side of the story and present their case. At the hearing in London, NOT ONE person testified for TTFF. So, you only have the players statements and the documents obtained by the players.
In the T&T High Court, Mr Camps and Mr Groden did testify and promptly laid the blame at the feet of Mr Warner. But Mr Warner declined to testify, so now we have the players statements and those of Mr Camps and Mr Groden, all pointing to Mr Warner.
Then we had the collection of data from TTFF offices showing millions upon millions of dollars going into accounts controlled by Mr Warner or his family.
This was published in newspapers and Mr Warner never produced evidence to counteract these documents.
So, we have Coops, chatting with some old pardners over a Carib vs evidence produced in two hearings in two continents which has never been officially challenged or disproved. :thinking: :thinking:
Hmm, looks like you bought what was sold to you again, bro.
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Tallman, Bakes, Tiresais et al. who responding to Coop's all yuh have de patience of Job......I doh have the time nor the patience......
Coop's on here long enough to know how this thing went down......to pretend otherwise is just outright *searching for the right word......* blasphemy?? duttiness?? mischievousness??
Brownsugar,i know u went to court and all that with these guys so i guess u know how this thing went down.Have u ever spoken to any of the guys involved in this case?have u ever spoken to JW,Camps or Groden?if not u are just baseing your views/ideas on what u read from these guys on here,if u were to talk to the players involved u will get a different view from all of them,why is it half accept and half didn't?it have players we have never heard anything from they just sitting down waiting to collect,imagine Evans Wise how many time he ever played for T&T,did he play in any WC games?since the WC have u ever heard from him?he too fighting for money in court,that's one of our heroes.
When i lived in the US i used to buy what was sold to me on here but i'm home and able to talk too and discuss things personally with all the TTFA admin etc etc but i will not put anything i've discussed on here,i find out things for my personal use/knowledge,you all want to listen to ppl like FS,Sancho,Fenwick (like he stop talking),Dreamer,Socapro,Elan etc yes these guys know what went down but i have to pick sense from nonsense.It have guys who was on here just like u and me wrangleing with the TTFA and today they are actually working for the same TTFA they once they once wrangled with,i wonder if their views have changed.
As i've always said i'm not a fan of T&T Football i am T&T Football,if u watched the sports news last night u will see what took place on the North Coast yesterday,nothing like that has ever happened in that area before,i had the Capt of our Womens national team,the girl that just scored the two goals in that all important game for our U 20 plus a couple others at the opening Clinic,i just want to show you all i'm still making a contribution to Football in the country,they are asking for my assistance and i will give it as long as my health permits,it does not matter wheather it's JW or Tim Kee once is Football there are no politics with me.
Coops, you can talk to whoever you like and believe them if you want. You can go to Golden Grove prison where every single inmate is actually innocent and framed by the police.
I personally, like to work with facts. So I attended court as much as I could.
Mr Warner, Mr Camps and Mr Groden have had ample opportunity to give their side of the story and present their case. At the hearing in London, NOT ONE person testified for TTFF. So, you only have the players statements and the documents obtained by the players.
In the T&T High Court, Mr Camps and Mr Groden did testify and promptly laid the blame at the feet of Mr Warner. But Mr Warner declined to testify, so now we have the players statements and those of Mr Camps and Mr Groden, all pointing to Mr Warner.
Then we had the collection of data from TTFF offices showing millions upon millions of dollars going into accounts controlled by Mr Warner or his family.
This was published in newspapers and Mr Warner never produced evidence to counteract these documents.
So, we have Coops, chatting with some old pardners over a Carib vs evidence produced in two hearings in two continents which has never been officially challenged or disproved. :thinking: :thinking:
Hmm, looks like you bought what was sold to you again, bro.
Alyuh eh realize is ah power move looking to happen.
Anyway, if yuh want the fact Brownsugar and FS why would you go to a court of law to hear facts. Them doh seek the truth, the truth is what the TTFF/A say it is.
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I've not heard Coop's side of the story before and would be interested in hearing it really. All the evidence I've found and heard so far points to JW being a complete scum-bag crook, but I'd be interested in hearing more if there's more to it.
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Tallman, Bakes, Tiresais et al. who responding to Coop's all yuh have de patience of Job......I doh have the time nor the patience......
Coop's on here long enough to know how this thing went down......to pretend otherwise is just outright *searching for the right word......* blasphemy?? duttiness?? mischievousness??
Brownsugar,i know u went to court and all that with these guys so i guess u know how this thing went down.Have u ever spoken to any of the guys involved in this case?have u ever spoken to JW,Camps or Groden?if not u are just baseing your views/ideas on what u read from these guys on here,if u were to talk to the players involved u will get a different view from all of them,why is it half accept and half didn't?it have players we have never heard anything from they just sitting down waiting to collect,imagine Evans Wise how many time he ever played for T&T,did he play in any WC games?since the WC have u ever heard from him?he too fighting for money in court,that's one of our heroes.
When i lived in the US i used to buy what was sold to me on here but i'm home and able to talk too and discuss things personally with all the TTFA admin etc etc but i will not put anything i've discussed on here,i find out things for my personal use/knowledge,you all want to listen to ppl like FS,Sancho,Fenwick (like he stop talking),Dreamer,Socapro,Elan etc yes these guys know what went down but i have to pick sense from nonsense.It have guys who was on here just like u and me wrangleing with the TTFA and today they are actually working for the same TTFA they once they once wrangled with,i wonder if their views have changed.
As i've always said i'm not a fan of T&T Football i am T&T Football,if u watched the sports news last night u will see what took place on the North Coast yesterday,nothing like that has ever happened in that area before,i had the Capt of our Womens national team,the girl that just scored the two goals in that all important game for our U 20 plus a couple others at the opening Clinic,i just want to show you all i'm still making a contribution to Football in the country,they are asking for my assistance and i will give it as long as my health permits,it does not matter wheather it's JW or Tim Kee once is Football there are no politics with me.
Coop's
1. I have never gone and sat inside the court room while the case was being tried. I always wanted to but my schedule did not allow it. Seems as though I may still have my chance...
2. I read the high court judgement from cover to cover. Have you?
3. I have seen the financial statements that forms part of the evidence in the high court proceedings. Only a dunce would conclude that something eh adding up. Have you read them?
4. I personally drove Mike Townley (the players' attorney) to the radio station Power 102 fm about 2 - 3 years ago and listened attentively while he detailed how this case started and why the case was proceeding the way it was at the time. I arranged to get the recording of the programme and posted on here for all who missed the live show. Did you listen to it? Do you want to listen to it? I still have copies of it.
5. I have listened to and read almost everything I can get my hands on about this case so I feel like I know it inside out.
6. I am yet to hear anything concrete from your friends at the old order of the TTFF as to how this whole thing came about. So you tell me on basis what am I supposed to make an informed decision if only one side of the battle giving information?
7. You eh really interested in the truth nah..........perhaps yuh playing devil's advocate mih eh know......and mih eh want to kmow either.....if it making yuh happy, by all means proceed......
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I'm interested in the recording :)
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Apparently, to feed at the trough get things done yuh hadda commit to this diet. :(
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FS if someone commits a crime or is summoned to appear in a case and does not show or testify,isn't there a penalty/charge related to that?if someone is found guilty of wrongdoing isn't there some kind of jail time for that?i don't know just asking.
If you all read my views/ideas on this whole thing,you all will observe i've never disputed any accounts of the events that took place,decisions made by the different Courts/Tribunals,coruptions involving JW/TTFA etc etc a lot of it have been explained on different occasions on here,i get it but why can't i have a view?
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FS if someone commits a crime or is summoned to appear in a case and does not show or testify,isn't there a penalty/charge related to that?if someone is found guilty of wrongdoing isn't there some kind of jail time for that?i don't know just asking.
If you all read my views/ideas on this whole thing,you all will observe i've never disputed any accounts of the events that took place,decisions made by the different Courts/Tribunals,coruptions involving JW/TTFA etc etc a lot of it have been explained on different occasions on here,i get it but why can't i have a view?
You can have your view, but your view is wrong. Honestly Coop's yuh not really saying anything and yuh not making sense either. Yuh call these fellas all kinda greedy, but your opinion that they are 'greedy' aside, three courts have agreed with them. So which is it? Is it that they are greedy as you claim? Or are they in the right, as three courts, listening to the evidence from both sides, have declared them to be? Yuh saying yuh "get it", but yuh eh get it. You only saying that because everybody coming down on the opposite side from you. You claim to have heard the TTFF side from yuh pardnas... why they didn't stand up in court, under oath and offer that? And if is the same old song and dance that three courts have already listened to and rejected, why you clinging onto the words of these people as gospel? Have your view, but make sense in the process.
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FS if someone commits a crime or is summoned to appear in a case and does not show or testify,isn't there a penalty/charge related to that?if someone is found guilty of wrongdoing isn't there some kind of jail time for that?i don't know just asking.
If you all read my views/ideas on this whole thing,you all will observe i've never disputed any accounts of the events that took place,decisions made by the different Courts/Tribunals,coruptions involving JW/TTFA etc etc a lot of it have been explained on different occasions on here,i get it but why can't i have a view?
You can have your view, but your view is wrong. Honestly Coop's yuh not really saying anything and yuh not making sense either. Yuh call these fellas all kinda greedy, but your opinion that they are 'greedy' aside, three courts have agreed with them. So which is it? Is it that they are greedy as you claim? Or are they in the right, as three courts, listening to the evidence from both sides, have declared them to be? Yuh saying yuh "get it", but yuh eh get it. You only saying that because everybody coming down on the opposite side from you. You claim to have heard the TTFF side from yuh pardnas... why they didn't stand up in court, under oath and offer that? And if is the same old song and dance that three courts have already listened to and rejected, why you clinging onto the words of these people as gospel? Have your view, but make sense in the process.
Bakes listen may be i'm not making sense but it's something i've said in the past and i'll say again,yes JW/TTFA did shyt and were wrong,but it will not change the fact that the members are my personal friends and i'm very sympathic towards the association because of what it has done for me,i have to be a mad man to dispute a courts decision.
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(http://www.readyshare.com/Users/barrycbarnett%40gmail-com//IgnoreFactsCartoon.jpg)
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FS if someone commits a crime or is summoned to appear in a case and does not show or testify,isn't there a penalty/charge related to that?if someone is found guilty of wrongdoing isn't there some kind of jail time for that?i don't know just asking.
If you all read my views/ideas on this whole thing,you all will observe i've never disputed any accounts of the events that took place,decisions made by the different Courts/Tribunals,coruptions involving JW/TTFA etc etc a lot of it have been explained on different occasions on here,i get it but why can't i have a view?
You can have your view, but your view is wrong. Honestly Coop's yuh not really saying anything and yuh not making sense either. Yuh call these fellas all kinda greedy, but your opinion that they are 'greedy' aside, three courts have agreed with them. So which is it? Is it that they are greedy as you claim? Or are they in the right, as three courts, listening to the evidence from both sides, have declared them to be? Yuh saying yuh "get it", but yuh eh get it. You only saying that because everybody coming down on the opposite side from you. You claim to have heard the TTFF side from yuh pardnas... why they didn't stand up in court, under oath and offer that? And if is the same old song and dance that three courts have already listened to and rejected, why you clinging onto the words of these people as gospel? Have your view, but make sense in the process.
Bakes listen may be i'm not making sense but it's something i've said in the past and i'll say again,yes JW/TTFA did shyt and were wrong,but it will not change the fact that the members are my personal friends and i'm very sympathic towards the association because of what it has done for me,i have to be a mad man to dispute a courts decision.
Coop's seriously though, how can you post what you just posted, but yet still say you have T&T football interest at heart? Coop's I learnt as a youth man that my best friend does come straight with me. If I do shit they does tell me to my face that I do shit, daiz why we're friends. My friends don't tell me what they think I should hear just to make me feel good. When yuh do shit yuh friends must call yuh on it.
Big man is big man. Real talk
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FS if someone commits a crime or is summoned to appear in a case and does not show or testify,isn't there a penalty/charge related to that?if someone is found guilty of wrongdoing isn't there some kind of jail time for that?i don't know just asking.
If you all read my views/ideas on this whole thing,you all will observe i've never disputed any accounts of the events that took place,decisions made by the different Courts/Tribunals,coruptions involving JW/TTFA etc etc a lot of it have been explained on different occasions on here,i get it but why can't i have a view?
You can have your view, but your view is wrong. Honestly Coop's yuh not really saying anything and yuh not making sense either. Yuh call these fellas all kinda greedy, but your opinion that they are 'greedy' aside, three courts have agreed with them. So which is it? Is it that they are greedy as you claim? Or are they in the right, as three courts, listening to the evidence from both sides, have declared them to be? Yuh saying yuh "get it", but yuh eh get it. You only saying that because everybody coming down on the opposite side from you. You claim to have heard the TTFF side from yuh pardnas... why they didn't stand up in court, under oath and offer that? And if is the same old song and dance that three courts have already listened to and rejected, why you clinging onto the words of these people as gospel? Have your view, but make sense in the process.
Bakes listen may be i'm not making sense but it's something i've said in the past and i'll say again,yes JW/TTFA did shyt and were wrong,but it will not change the fact that the members are my personal friends and i'm very sympathic towards the association because of what it has done for me,i have to be a mad man to dispute a courts decision.
Coop's seriously though, how can you post what you just posted, but yet still say you have T&T football interest at heart? Coop's I learnt as a youth man that my best friend does come straight with me. If I do shit they does tell me to my face that I do shit, daiz why we're friends. My friends don't tell me what they think I should hear just to make me feel good. When yuh do shit yuh friends must call yuh on it.
Big man is big man. Real talk
Elan i'm a grown man and i toally agree with u,what u are saying there don't u think i've done that?could it or would it change or undo the damage already done?this thing has set us back so far and every time a national team plays we expect the best results.
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Coops has to play "Sgt. Shultz ", to keep his conscience free
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At some point you need to assess whether you want friends who act so, and whom you wish to be associated. Loyalty shouldn't be blind - if your friends are being dicks and ain't changing then you need to assess that.
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Sancho disappointed in TTFA approach
T&T Newsday Reports.
FORMER TRINIDAD and Tobago footballer Brent Sancho is disappointed with the TT Football Association (TTFA) approach towards the almost eight-year-long bonus pay dispute, between 13 members of the 2006 TT World Cup team and the local governing body.
The players are determined to use legal means to gain full payment of the sum promised in 2013 by the TTFA and its president Raymond Tim Kee.
Sancho, the current Central FC managing director pointed out, “we agreed to a settlement on the basis that things would be paid at certain times. At the end of the day, this is why we’re in this situation. They’ve gone against their agreement that they pencilled up themselves.”
He added, “this was us coming to the table and agreeing to their side of the agreement. We are definitely entitled to more. We came to the table for the benefit and the betterment of football in Trinidad. We decided to settle out of court. To break the agreement after something that they decided they wanted to do, and to be in the situation that they are now after months of non-answers and promissory notes, we can’t continue this way.”
Referring to the financial struggles of the TTFA, Sancho said, “if you’re making an agreement of such, you must know that you have a source of income coming.
You can’t go anywhere in the world and make an agreement, under law and in the courts and come up with something (but) you don’t have the ways and means of doing it. This has nothing to do with the Ministry and anything like that.
“And, to add to it, they have the vehicle and the tools to even go further than that. They can go after the smoking gun, the past administrators who would have pilfered the coffers before, and they haven’t done anything. So you can’t just sit back and hand out, when you can get up and make things happen,” he ended.
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I was planning/hoping to stay away from this discussion and observe from the sidelines....vantage point is sometimes better there. Especially since I once advocated on JW's behalf.
Coops....I hearing loud and clear what you are saying or at least trying to say and I, for one, sincerely appreciate your attempts at objectivity.....
But saying that you're sympathetic toward the TTFF because they have some of your personal friends within or because they did for you, isn't the strongest foot to stand on. By virtue of that reasoning, the 06 guys have right to storm TTFF with swords and guns because of 'what the TTFF did to them'.
I remember defending JW against this bonus dispute to the hilt, but when faced with mountains of facts, the only logical thing to do is to reassess one's position. Blind loyalty has no place in modern times.
I can recognise and even accept that the TTFF are having difficulty to meet their fiscal obligations re:the debt settlement. But being under 'pressure' does not absolve them from what the court mandated.
After re-examining my position on this and other matters relating to JW/TTFF, it is crystal clear exactly how much JW held back our football. Granted he did great things, but our football was set back years at a minimum.
The only way to move forward positively is to rid ourselves of his fingerprints as much as we can. Pay the boys....let football get a clean slate and lets move forward.
Its just my opinion, but if these guys were half as greedy or vindictive as they have been made out to be, there easily could have been no Gold Cup or women's U20 world cup close call......just sayin
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I was planning/hoping to stay away from this discussion and observe from the sidelines....vantage point is sometimes better there. Especially since I once advocated on JW's behalf.
Coops....I hearing loud and clear what you are saying or at least trying to say and I, for one, sincerely appreciate your attempts at objectivity.....
But saying that you're sympathetic toward the TTFF because they have some of your personal friends within or because they did for you, isn't the strongest foot to stand on. By virtue of that reasoning, the 06 guys have right to storm TTFF with swords and guns because of 'what the TTFF did to them'.
I remember defending JW against this bonus dispute to the hilt, but when faced with mountains of facts, the only logical thing to do is to reassess one's position. Blind loyalty has no place in modern times.
I can recognise and even accept that the TTFF are having difficulty to meet their fiscal obligations re:the debt settlement. But being under 'pressure' does not absolve them from what the court mandated.
After re-examining my position on this and other matters relating to JW/TTFF, it is crystal clear exactly how much JW held back our football. Granted he did great things, but our football was set back years at a minimum.
The only way to move forward positively is to rid ourselves of his fingerprints as much as we can. Pay the boys....let football get a clean slate and lets move forward.
Its just my opinion, but if these guys were half as greedy or vindictive as they have been made out to be, there easily could have been no Gold Cup or women's U20 world cup close call......just sayin
Then we need to get rid of Anton, Fuentes and Tim Kee if we want to start fresh because all of them were under Jack.
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Trust me i do understand u guys,it just seems like everybody here on the same page and that's wonderfull at least you all agree on something.
Having said that try not to fault me for being sympathetic to T&T Football,i come from a Football family which i started,i've got two brothers that played for St Marys and Maple,one was assist to Alvin as Snr mens national team Coach,i have a brother that played for Jabloteh,my daughter played for Mucurapo/T&T,my son Barataria Snr,cousin Liana Hinds national Women,Kevin Molino brother of my cousin Kevon Cooper.This is my last post,thanks and good-bye.
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Trust me i do understand u guys,it just seems like everybody here on the same page and that's wonderfull at least you all agree on something.
Having said that try not to fault me for being sympathetic to T&T Football,i come from a Football family which i started,i've got two brothers that played for St Marys and Maple,one was assist to Alvin as Snr mens national team Coach,i have a brother that played for Jabloteh,my daughter played for Mucurapo/T&T,my son Barataria Snr,cousin Liana Hinds national Women,Kevin Molino brother of my cousin Kevon Cooper.This is my last post,thanks and good-bye.
Oh good....ah was wondering when you would shut up. :pissedoff:
JW....I miss you... :violin:...yuh killing me with this term of endearment. Grody....Ollie....why did you have to leave Mr. Cooper behind? He misses you. :yapping:
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Bakes listen may be i'm not making sense but it's something i've said in the past and i'll say again,yes JW/TTFA did shyt and were wrong,but it will not change the fact that the members are my personal friends and i'm very sympathic towards the association because of what it has done for me,i have to be a mad man to dispute a courts decision.
Coop's and there's nothing wrong with that, but I'm sure you could accept when yuh friends are wrong. Here yuh lambasting the players as though they are the wrong ones. If yuh not disputing the court's decision then how yuh could call the fellas 'greedy' for fighting to get what is rightfully theirs? This is nothing personal against yuh friends, this is a business dispute and they just happen to be on the losing side.
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Sancho disappointed in TTFA approach
T&T Newsday Reports.
“And, to add to it, they have the vehicle and the tools to even go further than that. They can go after the smoking gun, the past administrators who would have pilfered the coffers before, and they haven’t done anything. So you can’t just sit back and hand out, when you can get up and make things happen,” he ended.
This doesn't even make sense. Allyuh complaining about not getting paid because they 3-4 months behind on paying the settlement installment, but you telling them to go to court and sue? Of course they should, I agree with that, but suing is not an easy option, it will be very expensive (lawyer fees, discovery, expert witnesses in the form of forensic accountants and auditors), and very drawn out. You looking at another 3-5 years in court. All of this forms part of the decision whether to sue or not. Is the Association in a position to do that right now even if they wanted to? And when they go to court and all they money tied up, how long you, Sancho, think you will be waiting to get your money? Allyuh complaining about a 3-4 month delay now, what will happen when allyuh waiting years? Steups.
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Sancho disappointed in TTFA approach
T&T Newsday Reports.
“And, to add to it, they have the vehicle and the tools to even go further than that. They can go after the smoking gun, the past administrators who would have pilfered the coffers before, and they haven’t done anything. So you can’t just sit back and hand out, when you can get up and make things happen,” he ended.
This doesn't even make sense. Allyuh complaining about not getting paid because they 3-4 months behind on paying the settlement installment, but you telling them to go to court and sue? Of course they should, I agree with that, but suing is not an easy option, it will be very expensive (lawyer fees, discovery, expert witnesses in the form of forensic accountants and auditors), and very drawn out. You looking at another 3-5 years in court. All of this forms part of the decision whether to sue or not. Is the Association in a position to do that right now even if they wanted to? And when they go to court and all they money tied up, how long you, Sancho, think you will be waiting to get your money? Allyuh complaining about a 3-4 month delay now, what will happen when allyuh waiting years? Steups.
i was wondering about that to...I give Sanch and dem, the benefit of the doubt...and say..well them doh really want no money in truth, they just want to force TTFA to deal with the misappropriation of funds. Cause once TTFA start that, everybody salt, just as the players themselves before were..merry-go round, and no victims getting paid, yet money dishing out
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Sancho disappointed in TTFA approach
T&T Newsday Reports.
“And, to add to it, they have the vehicle and the tools to even go further than that. They can go after the smoking gun, the past administrators who would have pilfered the coffers before, and they haven’t done anything. So you can’t just sit back and hand out, when you can get up and make things happen,” he ended.
This doesn't even make sense. Allyuh complaining about not getting paid because they 3-4 months behind on paying the settlement installment, but you telling them to go to court and sue? Of course they should, I agree with that, but suing is not an easy option, it will be very expensive (lawyer fees, discovery, expert witnesses in the form of forensic accountants and auditors), and very drawn out. You looking at another 3-5 years in court. All of this forms part of the decision whether to sue or not. Is the Association in a position to do that right now even if they wanted to? And when they go to court and all they money tied up, how long you, Sancho, think you will be waiting to get your money? Allyuh complaining about a 3-4 month delay now, what will happen when allyuh waiting years? Steups.
i was wondering about that to...I give Sanch and dem, the benefit of the doubt...and say..well them doh really want no money in truth, they just want to force TTFA to deal with the misappropriation of funds. Cause once TTFA start that, everybody salt, just as the players themselves before were..merry-go round, and no victims getting paid, yet money dishing out
I think the point was that when the TTFA came with the settlement, there were possible options available. For example, TTFA could have said "guys, we ain't got no cash, you know that. But we will help you in anyway possible to go after it. Once you take out your money, the rest will be ours"
Fair enough, TTFA didn't want to go that route. But the route they chose was their choice, to which the players agreed. If TTFA had said "guys we'll settle, but we can't guarantee when you'll get paid and we'll also blame you for the lack of funding for our youth and womens programmes" I don't think there would be a settlement!
Sancho's point is that the lack of available funding is 100% due to TTFA's decision making.
As you say, Bakes, it's a long process, but they would be 20% along the way if they started proceedings last year. And 5 years is shorter than the players 7 years and the money owed TTFA is much more than the players are owed. And the players were willing to share the evidence that they had, so TTFA would have a head start and a smaller legal bill, perhaps.
That said, I am sure that TTFA set out to abide by the settlement and have been let down by who ever guaranteed the payments. But unfortunately, it's TTFA in the hot seat.
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I think what Sancho looking at it that the TTFA refuse to go after JW. I think if the TTFA went after JW the players would have chill out and wait until whenever to get their money. I even suspect that if with the backing of the TTFA they were able to bring down or get to JW, that would have been enough for these fellas.
However the "new" TTFA not looking to get their money back from JW and so apparently the players take it as "aiding" JW in his clean escape. So "you don't want to pressure JW we will pressure you" is what I suspect happening here. A game of corner?
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"A game of corner?".. unfortunately from which, there will be no winners/beneficiaries, save a few law upholders, of course. Damn if yuh do, damn if yuh don't. Yet, such has always been how money rich, majority ppl poor TT operate. "Just Do it" , then spend a liftime arguing about wheter it should have been done or not..and "Just do something else" and follow the pattern
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I think the point was that when the TTFA came with the settlement, there were possible options available. For example, TTFA could have said "guys, we ain't got no cash, you know that. But we will help you in anyway possible to go after it. Once you take out your money, the rest will be ours"
Fair enough, TTFA didn't want to go that route. But the route they chose was their choice, to which the players agreed. If TTFA had said "guys we'll settle, but we can't guarantee when you'll get paid and we'll also blame you for the lack of funding for our youth and womens programmes" I don't think there would be a settlement!
Sancho's point is that the lack of available funding is 100% due to TTFA's decision making.
As you say, Bakes, it's a long process, but they would be 20% along the way if they started proceedings last year. And 5 years is shorter than the players 7 years and the money owed TTFA is much more than the players are owed. And the players were willing to share the evidence that they had, so TTFA would have a head start and a smaller legal bill, perhaps.
That said, I am sure that TTFA set out to abide by the settlement and have been let down by who ever guaranteed the payments. But unfortunately, it's TTFA in the hot seat.
I don't know whether this is true or not, but it all supports the larger point that I have been making, the players need to be more reasonable in both their statements and their actions. If you see genuine efforts being made by the new regime to settle the dispute and pay you, why go in the press and make inflammatory statements like this from Kelvin Jack?
“It is supposedly a different group in charge of the TTFA now but it is the same rubbish.”
As for starting proceedings earlier... so you're asking a cash-strapped TTFF to file suit against Jack at the same time that it's defending itself in court against the players? Where were they to get money to pay two sets of legal bills on two separate cases? Had they done that then they wouldn't be in position to settle with the players. I'm not here to defend the TTFA, but I think the players are being unreasonable in how they're going about this. Not only are their demands unreasonable, but much of their comments in the press are unnecessary as well.
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I think the point was that when the TTFA came with the settlement, there were possible options available. For example, TTFA could have said "guys, we ain't got no cash, you know that. But we will help you in anyway possible to go after it. Once you take out your money, the rest will be ours"
Fair enough, TTFA didn't want to go that route. But the route they chose was their choice, to which the players agreed. If TTFA had said "guys we'll settle, but we can't guarantee when you'll get paid and we'll also blame you for the lack of funding for our youth and womens programmes" I don't think there would be a settlement!
Sancho's point is that the lack of available funding is 100% due to TTFA's decision making.
As you say, Bakes, it's a long process, but they would be 20% along the way if they started proceedings last year. And 5 years is shorter than the players 7 years and the money owed TTFA is much more than the players are owed. And the players were willing to share the evidence that they had, so TTFA would have a head start and a smaller legal bill, perhaps.
That said, I am sure that TTFA set out to abide by the settlement and have been let down by who ever guaranteed the payments. But unfortunately, it's TTFA in the hot seat.
I don't know whether this is true or not, but it all supports the larger point that I have been making, the players need to be more reasonable in both their statements and their actions. If you see genuine efforts being made by the new regime to settle the dispute and pay you, why go in the press and make inflammatory statements like this from Kelvin Jack?
“It is supposedly a different group in charge of the TTFA now but it is the same rubbish.”
As for starting proceedings earlier... so you're asking a cash-strapped TTFF to file suit against Jack at the same time that it's defending itself in court against the players? Where were they to get money to pay two sets of legal bills on two separate cases? Had they done that then they wouldn't be in position to settle with the players. I'm not here to defend the TTFA, but I think the players are being unreasonable in how they're going about this. Not only are their demands unreasonable, but much of their comments in the press are unnecessary as well.
I'm not sure about costs etc, but I distinctly recall the judge ordering TTFA to bring Jack to court.
Now, most of the evidence required to prove that Jack was the man, was already in front of the court, while other evidence should have been available to TTFA (and if it wasn't - such as rental agreements etc - that in itself is evidence). So, I can't see how this would be infinitely more expensive. Yes, I agree it would incur some additional costs, but if need be, it would have been wiser to ask the support of CONCACAF, CFU or FIFA for this rather than to settle with the players. Once Jack was in court, the TTFA would have very little expense. The players were suing TTFA and TTFA would have produced Jack and the court would have dealt with him. TTFA's legal team would just need to prove a degree of separation between them and Jack.
But, as I recall, the new regime stepped in and offered a settlement. Maybe that was the terms of Camps and Grodens withdrawal? You go away and we'll deal with your mess and you get off scot free? Who knows? The fact is, TTFA chose to settle.
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Bakes, just on this point:
That said, I am sure that TTFA set out to abide by the settlement and have been let down by who ever guaranteed the payments. But unfortunately, it's TTFA in the hot seat.
I don't know whether this is true or not, but it all supports the larger point that I have been making, the players need to be more reasonable in both their statements and their actions.
You would appreciate that if person A offers to settle with person B in a court of law, and decides to borrow money from a friend, if that friend changes his mind, it does not relieve person A of his responsibilities.
I understand that you advocate the players giving TTFA more time. But it's not you and I who have been through the nightmare that the players have. Neither has Tim-Kee or Sheldon. What seems reasonable to us, may feel completely unreasonable to them.
I know you have stated that in law the players are right to complain, the rest is just emotional reaction. I can see both sides of the argument, but only one side has the legal and emotional high ground.
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I'm not sure about costs etc, but I distinctly recall the judge ordering TTFA to bring Jack to court.
This cannot be true... how could the court order anyone to bring someone to court? The court has that power itself to subpoena any witnesses whose testimony are necessary for disposing the matter before the court. The court suggested to both parties that they might want to add Jack to the suit, that is what I recall.
Now, most of the evidence required to prove that Jack was the man, was already in front of the court, while other evidence should have been available to TTFA (and if it wasn't - such as rental agreements etc - that in itself is evidence). So, I can't see how this would be infinitely more expensive. Yes, I agree it would incur some additional costs, but if need be, it would have been wiser to ask the support of CONCACAF, CFU or FIFA for this rather than to settle with the players. Once Jack was in court, the TTFA would have very little expense. The players were suing TTFA and TTFA would have produced Jack and the court would have dealt with him. TTFA's legal team would just need to prove a degree of separation between them and Jack.
I think you are seriously underestimating the costs that would be involved. To prove that "Jack was the man" you'd have to prove that he stole money from the TTFF. There are reams of documents in the public sphere that point fingers at Jack, but documents don't testify, people do. All of the WC Audits that were prepared, you have to get the actual auditors who worked in preparing the documents to come to court and testify as to the processes they used in arriving at their conclusions, and to otherwise authenticate what's written in the document. I won't bother going into detail, but it's not as simple as you're making it seem.
But, as I recall, the new regime stepped in and offered a settlement. Maybe that was the terms of Camps and Grodens withdrawal? You go away and we'll deal with your mess and you get off scot free? Who knows? The fact is, TTFA chose to settle.
And they have not renegged on the settlement... so what's your point?
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Bakes, just on this point:
That said, I am sure that TTFA set out to abide by the settlement and have been let down by who ever guaranteed the payments. But unfortunately, it's TTFA in the hot seat.
I don't know whether this is true or not, but it all supports the larger point that I have been making, the players need to be more reasonable in both their statements and their actions.
You would appreciate that if person A offers to settle with person B in a court of law, and decides to borrow money from a friend, if that friend changes his mind, it does not relieve person A of his responsibilities.
I understand that you advocate the players giving TTFA more time. But it's not you and I who have been through the nightmare that the players have. Neither has Tim-Kee or Sheldon. What seems reasonable to us, may feel completely unreasonable to them.
I know you have stated that in law the players are right to complain, the rest is just emotional reaction. I can see both sides of the argument, but only one side has the legal and emotional high ground.
You cannot wring blood from stone. If you complain to a court, the court must be able to grant you relief. The only relief available to the players if they go back to court is to secure a lien on the TTFA assets... already addressed early on. Is this what the players are really asking for? This is not about having "legal and emotional high ground" it's about common sense. This was way before you got to TnT but I'm sure you know that this is the second time that the local governing body has been known as the TTFA? Did you know what happened to the first "TTFA"? Did you know that the same thing could have happened to the TTFF? Guess where that would have left the players and their "legal and emotional high ground"?
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Lies and untruths from the TTFA: Sancho’s stinging response to football body
By Brent Sancho (Wired868)
Letter from 2006 World Cup defender and Central FC managing director Brent Sancho to Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) president Raymond Tim Kee and copied to general secretary Sheldon Phillips:
For the last 12 months, we have been continually told that TTFA is different from TTFF. You and Mr Phillips have stated that you will never operate in the same manner as (former president) Mr Oliver Camps, (former general secretary) Mr Richard Groden and (former special advisor) Mr Jack Warner.
And I was willing to give the new regime the benefit of the doubt. Yes, I have my personal disagreements with the TTFA over the 2006 World Cup payments; but I have sat back with an open mind and watched you and Mr Phillips try to repair the massive damage done to our game by the TTFF.
But I was astounded by comments made by TTFA media officer, Shaun Fuentes and a “TTFA insider” in Sunday’s Newsday newspaper.
Basically, we, the 2006 Soca Warriors, agreed to settle with TTFA over unpaid bonuses after seven years and two court cases. Note: we agreed to settle.
We agreed to settle for a specific amount offered by TTFA when we could have pursued a larger sum, which two courts agreed was rightfully ours, because we wanted to see football grow and prosper again in Trinidad and Tobago.
The terms of the settlement were simple: A lump sum payment and then several tranches of funds on specific dates.
However, although the initial lump sum payment was received, when the first payment date appeared in September, no funds were available. Nor (was there money to pay us) in October, November, December and now, January.
We never chose those dates, the TTFA did. This isn’t a gentleman’s agreement, it is a legal settlement. It’s like being offered parole and then immediately breaking it. It doesn’t matter how much of a nice guy you are, you broke your word and, therefore, you must face the consequences.
Mr Fuentes, whom I assume is voicing the opinions of you and Mr Phillips, says we should be patient. Why? These funds are over seven years overdue. Isn’t that patience enough? And then we still waited for another 3 months (since the last due date).
If I understand your position correctly, Mr Tim Kee, we should wait for however long it takes to receive the money we are legally entitled to. In which case, I suggest that every business owner who pays rates to the Mayor of Port of Spain withholds his or her payments.
It doesn’t matter. There’s no rush is there, Mr Tim Kee, you will be patient. But I’m fairly sure that the voters and taxpayers and your political allies won’t be pleased when Port of Spain goes bust because you haven’t pursued money that is legally owed to you.
It’s childish and ridiculous for you all, as intelligent men, to suggest that we be patient. After the abuse that we suffered from the previous regime of which you, Mr Tim Kee, was a senior member, why should we expect any different (now)?
Especially as Mr Fuentes’ comments reek of the same chicanery used by the TTFF. According to Mr Fuentes, you said that Shaka Hislop has been very sensible on the matter unlike the other players.
So, the TTFA is picking out Hislop as the sensible one? Just like the TTFF paraded Dwight Yorke and Russell Latapy as the sensible ones for accepting their offer to settle. And then, of course, Yorke received a Sport Ambassador’s post while Latapy got the job of national team coach.
So, what will the TTFA offer Hislop?
Unfortunately for the TTFA, Shaka Hislop has more integrity. Mamaguy him all you want, but he’s already said that he will stand with the players. Maybe he will be a less aggressive participant but he will not be bribed into turning his back on his team mates.
And then we have the sob story about the youths and women’s teams being underfunded because we have to be paid. A disgusting attempt to mislead the public and win some support from a population that was outraged by the shenanigans of TTFF and is waiting to see if TTFA is really the future or just the past demons wearing angel costumes.
The TTFA made a deal. If they decided to use money meant for youth development or to fund various programmes that was their choice. Mr Fuentes and friends can’t lay the blame at our feet.
If the TTFA wants to avoid returning to court in February, they are going about it the wrong way
The same public name calling was done by the TTFF. They called us greedy for wanting what was promised by them! They filled the press with untruths to win favour. But once the real truth was known, the public turned against them.
Mr Tim Kee and Mr Phillips should take note. The media officer who failed so spectacularly at the TTFF is now the TTFA media officer and he is attempting the same PR own goal.
Yes, we as a group have, quite rightly, publicly criticized the TTFA for failing to adhere to their promises. And the TTFA have the right to explain the delays. That doesn’t mean that we have to accept their excuses.
An open debate allows people to understand the situation. But this unwarranted attack on the players is Mr Fuentes reverting to his old tactics of arrogance and untruths.
How dare he criticise players for wanting what was promised?! How dare he place the blame for lack of funding for the youths and women at our feet?!
Just tell the truth, Mr Fuentes, the TTFA made a deal that it could not keep. Now the players are angry. Accept it. Stop making excuses and own up to your failure.
We keep hearing about the sacrifices, the tremendous effort, the amazing deals they have achieved all to keep the players happy. But the truth is very simple:
Any competent administration would have fully funded their youth programmes, their women’s teams and paid their players and coaches. How? By working with us to reclaim the hundreds of millions of dollars that were proven to have disappeared during the TTFF’s reign.
Stop blaming the players because you can’t keep a legal agreement. If you’re in a mess, it’s one of your own making. You have the evidence to get back the money that was taken, money that can fund your programmes for the next decade.
And while crying about the poor youths, how about taking back the CONCACAF Centre of Excellence? Our national team coach can’t find a decent surface to train on and you can’t afford to rent the facility that was built to develop the Caribbean’s footballers.
Mr Tim Kee, you, Mr Fuentes, and Mr Phillips may feel aggrieved about this letter, but if you really want patience, don’t follow the mistakes of the TTFF and print untruths in the national press; because I, certainly, will defend my honour.
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I'm not sure about costs etc, but I distinctly recall the judge ordering TTFA to bring Jack to court.
This cannot be true... how could the court order anyone to bring someone to court? The court has that power itself to subpoena any witnesses whose testimony are necessary for disposing the matter before the court. The court suggested to both parties that they might want to add Jack to the suit, that is what I recall.
Now, most of the evidence required to prove that Jack was the man, was already in front of the court, while other evidence should have been available to TTFA (and if it wasn't - such as rental agreements etc - that in itself is evidence). So, I can't see how this would be infinitely more expensive. Yes, I agree it would incur some additional costs, but if need be, it would have been wiser to ask the support of CONCACAF, CFU or FIFA for this rather than to settle with the players. Once Jack was in court, the TTFA would have very little expense. The players were suing TTFA and TTFA would have produced Jack and the court would have dealt with him. TTFA's legal team would just need to prove a degree of separation between them and Jack.
I think you are seriously underestimating the costs that would be involved. To prove that "Jack was the man" you'd have to prove that he stole money from the TTFF. There are reams of documents in the public sphere that point fingers at Jack, but documents don't testify, people do. All of the WC Audits that were prepared, you have to get the actual auditors who worked in preparing the documents to come to court and testify as to the processes they used in arriving at their conclusions, and to otherwise authenticate what's written in the document. I won't bother going into detail, but it's not as simple as you're making it seem.
But, as I recall, the new regime stepped in and offered a settlement. Maybe that was the terms of Camps and Grodens withdrawal? You go away and we'll deal with your mess and you get off scot free? Who knows? The fact is, TTFA chose to settle.
And they have not renegged on the settlement... so what's your point?
Clearly, I don't understand the exact legal niceties. But I thought if you agreed in court to do X on a certain day and you fail to do so, you have failed in your responsibility? Isn't that why people have their houses, cars etc repossessed?
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Bakes, just on this point:
That said, I am sure that TTFA set out to abide by the settlement and have been let down by who ever guaranteed the payments. But unfortunately, it's TTFA in the hot seat.
I don't know whether this is true or not, but it all supports the larger point that I have been making, the players need to be more reasonable in both their statements and their actions.
You would appreciate that if person A offers to settle with person B in a court of law, and decides to borrow money from a friend, if that friend changes his mind, it does not relieve person A of his responsibilities.
I understand that you advocate the players giving TTFA more time. But it's not you and I who have been through the nightmare that the players have. Neither has Tim-Kee or Sheldon. What seems reasonable to us, may feel completely unreasonable to them.
I know you have stated that in law the players are right to complain, the rest is just emotional reaction. I can see both sides of the argument, but only one side has the legal and emotional high ground.
You cannot wring blood from stone. If you complain to a court, the court must be able to grant you relief. The only relief available to the players if they go back to court is to secure a lien on the TTFA assets... already addressed early on. Is this what the players are really asking for? This is not about having "legal and emotional high ground" it's about common sense. This was way before you got to TnT but I'm sure you know that this is the second time that the local governing body has been known as the TTFA? Did you know what happened to the first "TTFA"? Did you know that the same thing could have happened to the TTFF? Guess where that would have left the players and their "legal and emotional high ground"?
Actually, as I recall, TTFF went to govt to request that they change their name (it was created under an act of parliament, I believe) and Townley blocked it.
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Interesting read, how is this joker Fuentes still in a job?
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TO: Raymond Tim-Kee, President, TTFA
CC: Sheldon Phillips, General Secretary, TTFA
Members of the press & media houses
27th January 2014
Dear Mr Tim-Kee
For the last 12 months we have been continually told that TTFA is different from TTFF. You and Mr Phillips have stated that you will never operate in the same manner as Mr Camps, Mr Groden and Mr Warner.
And I was willing to give the new regime the benefit of the doubt. Yes, I have my personal disagreements with TTFA over the 2006 World Cup payments, but I have sat back with an open mind and watched you and Mr Phillips try to repair the massive damage done to our game by the TTFF.
But I was astounded by comments made by TTFA media officer, Shaun Fuentes and a “TTFA insider” in Sunday’s Newsday newspaper.
Basically, we, the 2006 SocaWarriors agreed to settle with TTFA over unpaid bonuses after 7 years and two court cases. Note: we agreed to settle. We agreed to settle for a specific amount offered by TTFA, when we could have pursued a larger sum which two courts had agreed was rightfully ours, because we wanted to see football grow and prosper again in T&T.
The terms of the settlement were simple. A lump sum payment and then several tranches of funds on specific dates. However, although the initial lump sum payment was received, when the first payment date appeared in September, no funds were available. Nor in October, November, December and now, January.
We never chose those dates, TTFA did. This isn’t a gentleman’s agreement, it is a legal settlement. It’s like being offered parole and then immediately breaking it. It doesn’t matter how much of a nice guy you are, you broke your word and, therefore, you must face the consequences.
Mr Fuentes, whom I assume is voicing the opinions of you and Mr Phillips, says we should be patient. Why? These funds are over 7 years overdue. Isn’t that patience enough? And then we still waited for another 3 months.
If I understand your position correctly, Mr Tim-Kee, we should wait for however long it takes to receive the money we are legally entitled to. In which case, I suggest that every business owner who pays rates to the Mayor of Port of Spain, withholds their payments. It doesn’t matter.
There’s no rush, is there, Mr Tim-Kee, you will be patient. But I’m fairly sure that the voters and taxpayers and your political allies won’t be pleased when Port of Spain goes bust because you haven’t pursued money that is legally owed to you.
It’s childish and ridiculous for you, as intelligent men to suggest that we be patient. After the abuse that we suffered from the previous regime (of which you, Mr Tim-Kee, was a senior member), why should we expect any different?
Especially as Mr Fuentes comments reek of the same chicanery used by TTFF. According to Mr Fuentes, you say that Shaka Hislop has been very sensible on the matter unlike the other players. So, TTFA are picking out Hislop as the sensible one? Just like TTFF paraded Dwight Yorke and Russell Latapy as the sensible ones for accepting their offer to settle. And then, of course, Dwight received a Sports Ambassadors post while Latapy got the job of National Team Coach. So, what will TTFA offer Hislop?
Unfortunately for TTFA, Shaka Hislop has more integrity. Mamaguy him all you want, but he’s already said that he will stand with the players. Maybe he will be a less aggressive participant, but he will not be bribed into turning his back on his team mates.
And then we have the sob story about the youths and women’s teams being underfunded because we have to be paid. A disgusting attempt to mislead the public and win some support from a population who were outraged by the shenanigans of TTFF and waiting to see if TTFA are really the future or the past demons wearing angel costumes.
TTFA made a deal. If they decided to use money meant for youth development or to fund various programmes, that was their choice. Mr Fuentes and friends can’t lay the blame at our feet. If TTFA want to avoid returning to court in February, they are going the wrong way about it.
The same public name calling was carried out by the TTFF. They called us greedy for wanting what was promised by them! They filled the press with untruths to win favour. But once the real truth was known, the public turned against them. Mr Tim-Kee and Mr Phillips should take note. The media officer who failed so spectacularly at TTFF is now TTFA media officer and is attempting the same PR own goal.
Yes, quite rightly, we as a group have publicly criticized TTFA for failing to adhere to their promises. And quite rightly, TTFA have the right to explain the delays. That doesn’t mean that we have to accept their excuses.
An open debate allows people to understand the situation. But this unwarranted attack on the players is Mr Fuentes reverting back to his old tactics of arrogance and untruths. How dare he crticise players for wanting what was promised. How dare he place the blame for lack of funding for the youths and women at our feet.
Just tell the truth, Mr Fuentes. TTFA made a deal that they could not keep. Now the players are angry. Accept it. Stop making excuses and own up to your failure.
We keep hearing about the sacrifices, the tremendous effort, the amazing deals they have achieved all to keep the players happy. But the truth is very simple: Any competent administration would have fully funded their youth programmes, their womens teams and paid their players and coaches. How? By working with us to reclaim the hundreds of millions of dollars that have been proved to have disappeared during the TTFF reign.
Stop blaming the players because you can’t keep a legal agreement. If you’re in a mess, it’s one of your own making. You have the evidence to get back the money that was taken, money that can fund your programmes for the next decade. And while crying about the poor youths, how about taking back the CONCACAF Centre of Excellence? Our National Team Coach can’t find a decent surface to train on, and you can’t afford to rent the facility that was built to develop the Caribbean’s footballers.
Mr Tim-Kee , you, Mr Fuentes, and Mr Phillips may feel aggrieved about this letter, but if you really want patience, don’t follow the mistakes of TTFF and print untruths in the national press, because I, certainly, will defend my honor.
Yours Sincerely
Brent Sancho
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Clearly, I don't understand the exact legal niceties. But I thought if you agreed in court to do X on a certain day and you fail to do so, you have failed in your responsibility? Isn't that why people have their houses, cars etc repossessed?
No, people have their houses, cars etc. repossessed because they borrowed money and the houses, cars etc. stood as collateral. You're talking about a lien action, which is different. If the players want to go that route then let them.
Actually, as I recall, TTFF went to govt to request that they change their name (it was created under an act of parliament, I believe) and Townley blocked it.
If Townley blocked the request then how did they change their name? All of that is immaterial anyways. The original TTFA was dissolved, or wound down by Warner et al. With the company wound down, it's legal existence, assets, liabilities (including debts) evaporated. The TTFF was then registered in it's place. I'm sure Townley and the players can appreciate that this too was an option for the new regime as they sought to move from the TTFF to the TTFA, and in doing so the players would have been left with nothing. The new administration did not opt to go that route, instead in recognition of the merit of the players' suit, they sought to settle, under extremely difficult circumstances. Yet this is the thanks that they are getting. You and Sancho et al keep talking about the players didn't have to settle... well neither did the TTFA.
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If Townley blocked the request then how did they change their name? All of that is immaterial anyways. The original TTFA was dissolved, or wound down by Warner et al. With the company wound down, it's legal existence, assets, liabilities (including debts) evaporated. The TTFF was then registered in it's place. I'm sure Townley and the players can appreciate that this too was an option for the new regime as they sought to move from the TTFF to the TTFA, and in doing so the players would have been left with nothing. The new administration did not opt to go that route, instead in recognition of the merit of the players' suit, they sought to settle, under extremely difficult circumstances. Yet this is the thanks that they are getting. You and Sancho et al keep talking about the players didn't have to settle... well neither did the TTFA.
Just to clarify, the TTFA was never wound down or ceased to exist. A private company called TTFF and headed by one Oliver Camps was created to act as the agent of the TTFA.
The TTFA always was the entity created by act of Parliament to administer the local game.
As I recall.
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Clearly, I don't understand the exact legal niceties. But I thought if you agreed in court to do X on a certain day and you fail to do so, you have failed in your responsibility? Isn't that why people have their houses, cars etc repossessed?
No, people have their houses, cars etc. repossessed because they borrowed money and the houses, cars etc. stood as collateral. You're talking about a lien action, which is different. If the players want to go that route then let them.
Makes sense. So, basically, if you agree a settlement, you actually have gained nothing if the other party reneges? Just wasted time?
Actually, as I recall, TTFF went to govt to request that they change their name (it was created under an act of parliament, I believe) and Townley blocked it.
If Townley blocked the request then how did they change their name? All of that is immaterial anyways. The original TTFA was dissolved, or wound down by Warner et al. With the company wound down, it's legal existence, assets, liabilities (including debts) evaporated. The TTFF was then registered in it's place. I'm sure Townley and the players can appreciate that this too was an option for the new regime as they sought to move from the TTFF to the TTFA, and in doing so the players would have been left with nothing. The new administration did not opt to go that route, instead in recognition of the merit of the players' suit, they sought to settle, under extremely difficult circumstances. Yet this is the thanks that they are getting. You and Sancho et al keep talking about the players didn't have to settle... well neither did the TTFA.
They changed their name, much like you can create an alias. The act of parliament still recognises TTFF, I believe. They tried to do it again, as I mentioned, but their move was blocked. So, now the players are the bad guys, while the TTFA heroes have been wronged? Do you really believe that they chose this route because it was better for T&T football?
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Makes sense. So, basically, if you agree a settlement, you actually have gained nothing if the other party reneges? Just wasted time?
If you agree (to) a settlement or not, you can only collect where there are assets to collect from. As I said, if that is the route that the players want to go then let them go to court and have the court attach the TTFA's assets to the settlement, just as they attached the TTFF's assets to the judgment the last time. How did that work out for them?
They changed their name, much like you can create an alias. The act of parliament still recognises TTFF, I believe. They tried to do it again, as I mentioned, but their move was blocked. So, now the players are the bad guys, while the TTFA heroes have been wronged? Do you really believe that they chose this route because it was better for T&T football?
The Act of Parliament recognizes the "TTFA" as FF points out... the "TTFA" didn't make any promises to the players, it was the TTFF. The "TTFA" wasn't sued, it was the TTFF. The "TTFA" doesn't own the debt the players are trying to collect on, the TTFF does. Hopefully you get my drift. The fact that the TTFA sought to honor the debt because it is the right thing to do, when legally they were under no obligation to do it, should make most reasonable persons want to be patient, give them the benefit of the doubt and work with them. I said the players were being unreasonable, a word I've been consistent in using all along. If you want to term them "bad guys" then that's on you.
Just to clarify, the TTFA was never wound down or ceased to exist. A private company called TTFF and headed by one Oliver Camps was created to act as the agent of the TTFA.
The TTFA always was the entity created by act of Parliament to administer the local game.
As I recall.
I may be wrong on the original TTFA being wound down, but the larger point remains, that "private company called the TTFF" is separate from the current TTFA. Also, the involvement of Parliament is largely perfunctory, Parliament didn't create the entity, nor could it, lest it violates FIFA edict about government involvement. I believe the proclamation is boilerplate language attendant to the formation of any company in TnT (or was at the time) rather than an official Act of Parliament... which would have made the TTFA a public/quasi-public entity.
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If Townley blocked the request then how did they change their name? All of that is immaterial anyways. The original TTFA was dissolved, or wound down by Warner et al. With the company wound down, it's legal existence, assets, liabilities (including debts) evaporated. The TTFF was then registered in it's place. I'm sure Townley and the players can appreciate that this too was an option for the new regime as they sought to move from the TTFF to the TTFA, and in doing so the players would have been left with nothing. The new administration did not opt to go that route, instead in recognition of the merit of the players' suit, they sought to settle, under extremely difficult circumstances. Yet this is the thanks that they are getting. You and Sancho et al keep talking about the players didn't have to settle... well neither did the TTFA.
Just to clarify, the TTFA was never wound down or ceased to exist. A private company called TTFF and headed by one Oliver Camps was created to act as the agent of the TTFA.
The TTFA always was the entity created by act of Parliament to administer the local game.
As I recall.
Move 2 d head of the class. D matter was being discussed by a Joint Select Committee of d Parliament Hypolite/Amery Brown and Fitzgerald Jeffrey was d PNM Gopeesingh and cyah remember d fella 4 d UNC. So Brownsugar and I got our friends and families to write these MPs and we painted the picture. When the PNM peeps asked questions the issue lapse. So it was d TTFA trading as d TTFF.
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An example of how confusing it gets!
TTFF was an agent of TTFA. TTFA now operate in their own name again. So, how can they not be responsible for the debts created by an agent appointed by themselves? Just because the personnel may have changed, the entity that created TTFF is still responsible for the debt.
And, of course, Mr Tim-Kee was an executive of both, I believe.
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To Sancho and company,
You are doing the right thing and I am proud of you all who have the guts to stand up for principle. Legal arrangements must be respected. You owe money, pay it. The TTFF will never improve unless they learn a full lesson from this. If those in the "TTFA" want to give Jackula a bligh, then pay the price yuhself and learn the hard way. I would love to see football played with Beenie here etc, but if no justice then forget the damn football and seasonal jam and wine. Beenie doh come back until TTFA head honchos confirm that they have turned a full new page and turned away from the Jackula way of doing business. A remnant stench of Jackula is very off-putting.
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Well said Brent.
I find Mr Fuentes comments which tried to paint the 2006 World Cup players in a bad light very disappointing.
TTFA need to get more professional when it comes to paying staff and players and living up to its legal agreements.
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Maybe it's my command of the English language that is failing me... but can someone point out the "lies and untruths" in this article? Or maybe, show how the TTFA "tried to paint the 2006 World Cup players in a bad light"?
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Maybe it's my command of the English language that is failing me... but can someone point out the "lies and untruths" in this article? Or maybe, show how the TTFA "tried to paint the 2006 World Cup players in a bad light"?
Bakes, I'll try to help you.
Sancho's letter doesn't actually mention "lies" or "untruths". The essence is that the truth is not being told. Which is different from telling lies.
For example, in May 2013, when the settlement was announced, Tim-Kee stated:
“The TTFF will like to acknowledge that the source of the funding came about as a result of a CONCACAF audit which discovered unclaimed commercial and broadcast revenues that were due to the TTFF for 2014 World Cup cycle,” stated the release. “Soon after Raymond Tim Kee’s appointment as President of the TTFF in December, the availability of the funds were brought to his attention.
“Upon recognising this and in keeping with his commitment to satisfy the outstanding obligation to the thirteen players, it was determined that applying these funds to the emerging settlement discussions was a just and reasonable action.”
So, this was not money allocated for any programme. It was additional money that was "discovered".
The article in the Newsday states:
In November, US$200,000 were paid, from the FIFA Assistance Programme, which clearly states that money must go towards the development of youth football and national teams.
“The TTFA received a waiver from FIFA to be able to use this fund towards settling these issues with the World Cup players. People need to understand there is ongoing efforts to meet the requirements to pay this off and that is taking away from football in general.”
Now, it doesn't actually say that the US$200,000 was paid to the players - which it wasn't - but when you read the statement it certainly infers to the general public that it was. And why? The money was supposed to come from Tim-Kees TV money, right?
Then Fuentes stated:
Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players and to ensure that this debt is taken care of. They thought it was fit that we tried to ensure that this matter came to an end.”
Again, not technically a lie, but not exactly the situation described by Tim-Kee back in May. Fuentes actually says that "football is suffering " because of this settlement. Not a lie. But it leads the reader to place the blame at the players feet for the lack of development. Fuentes says Beenhakker hasn't been paid because of the players settlement. Then he says :
And also, you look at the women’s team, a lot of people thought the team could have done much better with more preparation. And monies that have been used now to settle the situation that we are facing is money that should have been spent on the development of these national youth teams.”
Yet again, no body could deny that if money wasn't paid to the players, it could have been spent in other areas. But THE TRUTH is that Tim-Kee said this was additional money that was discovered, not money allocated for programmes.
Then Fuentes said :
“The last payment did not come as we or the players would have liked but the TTFA did not turn their backs on this agreement. When the monies come to the TTFA, it would obviously be channelled through to the players.”
But why hasn't Fuentes explained how money belonging to TTFA (the conveniently discovered TV money) is delayed. We were led to believe by Tim-Kee that the money was in TTFA hands already. So where is it now and why does TTFA need to wait for it to come through?
Finally, Fuentes said:
“The national ‘senior’ team is awaiting funding for matches and there are still coaches that are awaiting outstanding salaries. And yet we are trying to source the funds to ensure that these players receive their funding.”
So now the senior team is not funded, coaches and other salaries are unpaid, but good old TTFA are focusing on the 06 players payments. Again, as if the mismanagement of funds is because of Sancho et al.
There may not be actual lies, but I see a lot of dishonesty. This talk about money meant for development, lack of preparation, salaries not paid, Beenie not here, should not be in the same article as the TTFA's failure to pay as promised. Fuentes clearly wants the public to know that the settlement has damaged football at all levels, and still the players want more.
Tim-Kee clearly stated that the settlement money was from a previously unknown source. It wasn't included in any budget. It was new money. But now, suddenly, it was money taken from kids, and our brave girls and our national team.
It's deceptive and designed to win favour. I'm just surprised that intelligent people such as Bakes fell for it.
Sancho and friends believe that if there was this undiscovered TV money, it has been spent on other things. Perhaps TTFA used it in lieu of FIFA grassroots money or other promised funding, and that money hasn't materialised? Who knows?
So, will we see articles describing how Latapys settlement has damaged youth development etc? Or maybe TTFA will announce that Fuentes' salary was money that could have funded a football programme for disabled kids? I doubt it.
Basically, for whatever reason, TTFA haven't managed their funds to fulfill their promises. Of course the players aren't happy. But they also know that Phillips is trying his best. But trying to mislead the public by blaming all these sacrifices on the 06 warriors is typical of the previous regime. And that's why Sancho was angry
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Sounds like a convoluted corporate structure designed to avoid transparency and accountability to me...
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Fuentes is a two face person, that I know, I am sure he getting his pay, I met him at games in the past, never introduce myself because I like to observe from a far, the man does carrying on like he working for BBC or CNN and no one else could come close. He can't even write and took the video thing to help eliminate some of his writing he need to do. I cant believe the Guardian pays this guy to copy and paste old articles from the internet, they have to be stupid, then again, they pay Alvin too.
Sancho and Fuentes was ring and finger at one time. How times have change.
I expect Sheldon to handle himself in a more professional manner.
Tim Kee is always suspect.
We have the same old personnel and we cannot expect different.
Alvin, Anton, Tim Kee, Fuentes etc.
I hope Sheldon distant himself because the little respect I have for him, I will lose it.
If they don't have the money to pay the guys, then say so from the beginning and stop running up your mouth before anything materialize.
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Its time to change the channel
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Its time to change the channel
But we thought we changed the station but its seems to be the same programme with slightly different actors. :-\
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Its time to change the channel
But we thought we changed the station but its seems to be the same programme with slightly different actors. :-\
1 new actor Sheldon Phillip. All actors have been there in previous seasons.
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Didn't Channels 2 & 13 use tuh show d same ting :banginghead:
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Sancho's letter doesn't actually mention "lies" or "untruths". The essence is that the truth is not being told. Which is different from telling lies.
I was referring to Lasana's headline.
For example, in May 2013, when the settlement was announced, Tim-Kee stated:
“The TTFF will like to acknowledge that the source of the funding came about as a result of a CONCACAF audit which discovered unclaimed commercial and broadcast revenues that were due to the TTFF for 2014 World Cup cycle,” stated the release. “Soon after Raymond Tim Kee’s appointment as President of the TTFF in December, the availability of the funds were brought to his attention.
“Upon recognising this and in keeping with his commitment to satisfy the outstanding obligation to the thirteen players, it was determined that applying these funds to the emerging settlement discussions was a just and reasonable action.”
So, this was not money allocated for any programme. It was additional money that was "discovered".
The TTFA never said this money was allocated for any programme... that is FIFA money, don't get the two confused. And note the red highlight above, they never said they actually had the money in hand, they said a funding "source" was identified and that money was "available".
The article in the Newsday states:
In November, US$200,000 were paid, from the FIFA Assistance Programme, which clearly states that money must go towards the development of youth football and national teams.
“The TTFA received a waiver from FIFA to be able to use this fund towards settling these issues with the World Cup players. People need to understand there is ongoing efforts to meet the requirements to pay this off and that is taking away from football in general.”
Now, it doesn't actually say that the US$200,000 was paid to the players - which it wasn't - but when you read the statement it certainly infers to the general public that it was. And why? The money was supposed to come from Tim-Kees TV money, right?
It does give the impression that the $200,000.00 was paid to the players.
Then Fuentes stated:
Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players and to ensure that this debt is taken care of. They thought it was fit that we tried to ensure that this matter came to an end.”
Again, not technically a lie, but not exactly the situation described by Tim-Kee back in May.
It's not at all a lie, not even slightly misleading... even if different from what Tim-Kee said. Tim-Kee spoke about money they were expecting, money which clearly they haven't yet gotten. All of that money could have been used for a number of things, including development of football. Instead it was earmarked for the settlement. Nothing at all wrong with the statment.
Fuentes actually says that "football is suffering " because of this settlement. Not a lie. But it leads the reader to place the blame at the players feet for the lack of development. Fuentes says Beenhakker hasn't been paid because of the players settlement. Then he says :
And also, you look at the women’s team, a lot of people thought the team could have done much better with more preparation. And monies that have been used now to settle the situation that we are facing is money that should have been spent on the development of these national youth teams.”
That is nonsense. Why would anyone blame the players for the lack of funding for development? If that is how your boy Sancho looking at it then he's being extremely thin-skinned. Tough choices have to be made with regards to allocation of scarce funds, a decision was made to pay the players, to the detriment of everything else. The players got $1.7 million USD right after the settlement was announced, where did that money come from? Could it be that that was some of the CONCACAF TV money? This is the problem when you have two sides who have been adversaries for so long that people have dug in their heels and their anger and distrust prevents them from being able to see the merits to the other side's position. Sancho took offense to what Fuentes said... but what exactly? How was his honor impugned?
Yet again, no body could deny that if money wasn't paid to the players, it could have been spent in other areas. But THE TRUTH is that Tim-Kee said this was additional money that was discovered, not money allocated for programmes.
Nobody said the settlement money was allocated for programmes... they said that $200,000 USD in FIFA money allocated for development was used for a payment (you said the payers never got paid). The information I have is that the money was paid in November. So either I have it wrong, or your source has it wrong.
Then Fuentes said :
“The last payment did not come as we or the players would have liked but the TTFA did not turn their backs on this agreement. When the monies come to the TTFA, it would obviously be channelled through to the players.”
But why hasn't Fuentes explained how money belonging to TTFA (the conveniently discovered TV money) is delayed. We were led to believe by Tim-Kee that the money was in TTFA hands already. So where is it now and why does TTFA need to wait for it to come through?
Tim-Kee never said the money was in hand, already addressed. Agreed that perhaps it would be helpful to explain why the money was delayed, but maybe it's a sensitive matter with CONCACAF and the smart thing is to not throw the Confederation under the bus right now when you're dependent on them to get you out of a tight spot.
Finally, Fuentes said:
“The national ‘senior’ team is awaiting funding for matches and there are still coaches that are awaiting outstanding salaries. And yet we are trying to source the funds to ensure that these players receive their funding.”
So now the senior team is not funded, coaches and other salaries are unpaid, but good old TTFA are focusing on the 06 players payments. Again, as if the mismanagement of funds is because of Sancho et al.
There may not be actual lies, but I see a lot of dishonesty. This talk about money meant for development, lack of preparation, salaries not paid, Beenie not here, should not be in the same article as the TTFA's failure to pay as promised. Fuentes clearly wants the public to know that the settlement has damaged football at all levels, and still the players want more.
What "mismanagement of funds"... what is your basis for that statement? Money is tight all around, this was the state that Camps and Groden et al left the then Federation. Where did this money come from that the new TTFA has mismanaged? Fuentes' statement is a statement of fact, there are a multitude of other places the money could have been earmarked for, but instead they are trying to do the right thing and honor the obligation to the players... and Sancho have the gaul to ask "why should the players be patient?" Being impatient is going to help, how?
Tim-Kee clearly stated that the settlement money was from a previously unknown source. It wasn't included in any budget. It was new money. But now, suddenly, it was money taken from kids, and our brave girls and our national team.
You on shit yes. You reading what you want to read. It was "taken" from the women's team and the Senior MNT in the sense that it could have been earmarked for them instead but it wasn't.
It's deceptive and designed to win favour. I'm just surprised that intelligent people such as Bakes fell for it.
Don't blame me because I can read for understanding. You are the one who keeps confusing and in some cases misconstruing what's been stated.
Sancho and friends believe that if there was this undiscovered TV money, it has been spent on other things. Perhaps TTFA used it in lieu of FIFA grassroots money or other promised funding, and that money hasn't materialised? Who knows?
So, will we see articles describing how Latapys settlement has damaged youth development etc? Or maybe TTFA will announce that Fuentes' salary was money that could have funded a football programme for disabled kids? I doubt it.
Basically, for whatever reason, TTFA haven't managed their funds to fulfill their promises. Of course the players aren't happy. But they also know that Phillips is trying his best. But trying to mislead the public by blaming all these sacrifices on the 06 warriors is typical of the previous regime. And that's why Sancho was angry
Sancho needs to calm his ass down then, nobody blamed him for anything. Where did they say "it's the players fault that the women's team didn't get funded better"? That is how allyuh choose to take it, but that is not what they said. It's not even implied that the players are at fault for the funding issue. They mention it to show the tough choices they have had to make, and to underscore their commitment to settling the issue. The point being, if they weren't serious they could have spent the money (including the initial tranche) on other things. But Sancho blood to close to his skin to see it that way.
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Sancho's letter doesn't actually mention "lies" or "untruths". The essence is that the truth is not being told. Which is different from telling lies.
I was referring to Lasana's headline.
For example, in May 2013, when the settlement was announced, Tim-Kee stated:
“The TTFF will like to acknowledge that the source of the funding came about as a result of a CONCACAF audit which discovered unclaimed commercial and broadcast revenues that were due to the TTFF for 2014 World Cup cycle,” stated the release. “Soon after Raymond Tim Kee’s appointment as President of the TTFF in December, the availability of the funds were brought to his attention.
“Upon recognising this and in keeping with his commitment to satisfy the outstanding obligation to the thirteen players, it was determined that applying these funds to the emerging settlement discussions was a just and reasonable action.”
So, this was not money allocated for any programme. It was additional money that was "discovered".
The TTFA never said this money was allocated for any programme... that is FIFA money, don't get the two confused. And note the red highlight above, they never said they actually had the money in hand, they said a funding "source" was identified and that money was "available".
The article in the Newsday states:
In November, US$200,000 were paid, from the FIFA Assistance Programme, which clearly states that money must go towards the development of youth football and national teams.
“The TTFA received a waiver from FIFA to be able to use this fund towards settling these issues with the World Cup players. People need to understand there is ongoing efforts to meet the requirements to pay this off and that is taking away from football in general.”
Now, it doesn't actually say that the US$200,000 was paid to the players - which it wasn't - but when you read the statement it certainly infers to the general public that it was. And why? The money was supposed to come from Tim-Kees TV money, right?
It does give the impression that the $200,000.00 was paid to the players.
Then Fuentes stated:
Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players and to ensure that this debt is taken care of. They thought it was fit that we tried to ensure that this matter came to an end.”
Again, not technically a lie, but not exactly the situation described by Tim-Kee back in May.
It's not at all a lie, not even slightly misleading... even if different from what Tim-Kee said. Tim-Kee spoke about money they were expecting, money which clearly they haven't yet gotten. All of that money could have been used for a number of things, including development of football. Instead it was earmarked for the settlement. Nothing at all wrong with the statment.
Fuentes actually says that "football is suffering " because of this settlement. Not a lie. But it leads the reader to place the blame at the players feet for the lack of development. Fuentes says Beenhakker hasn't been paid because of the players settlement. Then he says :
And also, you look at the women’s team, a lot of people thought the team could have done much better with more preparation. And monies that have been used now to settle the situation that we are facing is money that should have been spent on the development of these national youth teams.”
That is nonsense. Why would anyone blame the players for the lack of funding for development? If that is how your boy Sancho looking at it then he's being extremely thin-skinned. Tough choices have to be made with regards to allocation of scarce funds, a decision was made to pay the players, to the detriment of everything else. The players got $1.7 million USD right after the settlement was announced, where did that money come from? Could it be that that was some of the CONCACAF TV money? This is the problem when you have two sides who have been adversaries for so long that people have dug in their heels and their anger and distrust prevents them from being able to see the merits to the other side's position. Sancho took offense to what Fuentes said... but what exactly? How was his honor impugned?
Yet again, no body could deny that if money wasn't paid to the players, it could have been spent in other areas. But THE TRUTH is that Tim-Kee said this was additional money that was discovered, not money allocated for programmes.
Nobody said the settlement money was allocated for programmes... they said that $200,000 USD in FIFA money allocated for development was used for a payment (you said the payers never got paid). The information I have is that the money was paid in November. So either I have it wrong, or your source has it wrong.
Then Fuentes said :
“The last payment did not come as we or the players would have liked but the TTFA did not turn their backs on this agreement. When the monies come to the TTFA, it would obviously be channelled through to the players.”
But why hasn't Fuentes explained how money belonging to TTFA (the conveniently discovered TV money) is delayed. We were led to believe by Tim-Kee that the money was in TTFA hands already. So where is it now and why does TTFA need to wait for it to come through?
Tim-Kee never said the money was in hand, already addressed. Agreed that perhaps it would be helpful to explain why the money was delayed, but maybe it's a sensitive matter with CONCACAF and the smart thing is to not throw the Confederation under the bus right now when you're dependent on them to get you out of a tight spot.
Finally, Fuentes said:
“The national ‘senior’ team is awaiting funding for matches and there are still coaches that are awaiting outstanding salaries. And yet we are trying to source the funds to ensure that these players receive their funding.”
So now the senior team is not funded, coaches and other salaries are unpaid, but good old TTFA are focusing on the 06 players payments. Again, as if the mismanagement of funds is because of Sancho et al.
There may not be actual lies, but I see a lot of dishonesty. This talk about money meant for development, lack of preparation, salaries not paid, Beenie not here, should not be in the same article as the TTFA's failure to pay as promised. Fuentes clearly wants the public to know that the settlement has damaged football at all levels, and still the players want more.
What "mismanagement of funds"... what is your basis for that statement? Money is tight all around, this was the state that Camps and Groden et al left the then Federation. Where did this money come from that the new TTFA has mismanaged? Fuentes' statement is a statement of fact, there are a multitude of other places the money could have been earmarked for, but instead they are trying to do the right thing and honor the obligation to the players... and Sancho have the gaul to ask "why should the players be patient?" Being impatient is going to help, how?
Tim-Kee clearly stated that the settlement money was from a previously unknown source. It wasn't included in any budget. It was new money. But now, suddenly, it was money taken from kids, and our brave girls and our national team.
You on shit yes. You reading what you want to read. It was "taken" from the women's team and the Senior MNT in the sense that it could have been earmarked for them instead but it wasn't.
It's deceptive and designed to win favour. I'm just surprised that intelligent people such as Bakes fell for it.
Don't blame me because I can read for understanding. You are the one who keeps confusing and in some cases misconstruing what's been stated.
Sancho and friends believe that if there was this undiscovered TV money, it has been spent on other things. Perhaps TTFA used it in lieu of FIFA grassroots money or other promised funding, and that money hasn't materialised? Who knows?
So, will we see articles describing how Latapys settlement has damaged youth development etc? Or maybe TTFA will announce that Fuentes' salary was money that could have funded a football programme for disabled kids? I doubt it.
Basically, for whatever reason, TTFA haven't managed their funds to fulfill their promises. Of course the players aren't happy. But they also know that Phillips is trying his best. But trying to mislead the public by blaming all these sacrifices on the 06 warriors is typical of the previous regime. And that's why Sancho was angry
Sancho needs to calm his ass down then, nobody blamed him for anything. Where did they say "it's the players fault that the women's team didn't get funded better"? That is how allyuh choose to take it, but that is not what they said. It's not even implied that the players are at fault for the funding issue. They mention it to show the tough choices they have had to make, and to underscore their commitment to settling the issue. The point being, if they weren't serious they could have spent the money (including the initial tranche) on other things. But Sancho blood to close to his skin to see it that way.
I think both sides believe their story is the truth in a number of regards on this forum. When it comes to interpretation it's in the holder, so it's much easier to get into arguments over it. We can only give what we interpreted from it, and I personally interpreted much the same as FS - the subtext being "don't blame us for X, it's cause we're paying the World Cup team". When set against each other, the meaning I pulled from this was that they are trying to shift the blame from a decision made by them, namely to commit to paying the wages from TV money 'found', to the World Cup players, who are said to be diverting resources away from other projects.
If Bakes pulls something else from this, then maybe the implication both I and FS pull from it isn't as obvious as we think and we should maybe pull back a little.
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After reading some of these comments, I have to wonder why my ' AVAILABLE balance ' in my bank account.....is always, well, available. I see points on both sides, but I believe de intent of those comments(not sure of the timing) was to influence de public opinion somewhat unfairly :-\
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Here is the fundamental difference between me and some of the other people weighing in on the situation. Unlike FS, Weary, Lasana, Brownsugar and a couple others, I don't know any of the players personally, I never rubbed shoulders with them, I never went to court and sit on "their" side of the aisle. On the other hand, unlike Coop's, and perhaps a couple silent others, I don't have any friends in the administration either. In short I have no personal or emotional investment in this. This is not to suggest that the aforementioned forumites are incapable of looking at things objectively, but to underscore that I am trying to do just that. We were all united in our opposition to the Warner/Camps/Groden TTFF. Finally, after much lonsuffering we were able to get them out.
Now we have a new regime in charge and by any objective measure, incremental steps are being taken to not only improve the performance of all our teams on ever level, but also to reform the administration of the local game. Some of us choose to look at the glass half full, some see it half empty. Some see the efforts being made and are willing to give the TTFA the benefit of the doubt. Others look at the same situation and see the "same khaki pants". Take the Akeem jersey situation, the TTFA get lambaste for it even though they didn't print any shirt, or profit in any way from it. Whether the vendor (I forget the name of the company) profited, we don't know. I seem to remember the TTFA saying they looked at the cost breakdown and were satisfied that there was no malfeasance... yet to this day the TTFA still getting blamed.
Same for the CFU combine... Lasana to this day still blaming the TTFA for that, even though the TTFA not in position to control these private professional club's players. If it's not FIFA-related the TTFA has no control over the players, their function was that of a conduit. Emails were produced to show that Phillips passed along the information to the clubs. Yet we're still blaming the TTFA for "no TnT player getting invited to the CFU combine." It borders on the ridiculous.
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Can't be bothered quoting that whole sequence there, but here are the highlights:
I said: So, this was not money allocated for any programme. It was additional money that was "discovered".
You said: The TTFA never said this money was allocated for any programme... that is FIFA money, don't get the two confused. And note the red highlight above, they never said they actually had the money in hand, they said a funding "source" was identified and that money was "available".
There is no confusion on my part. I made it clear that this was "fresh money" so that people could see for themselves that this funding could not have impacted in any way on any other planned spending by TTFA.
If, as you say, they never actually had the money, then how the hell could they make a payment schedule? Surely, they would add a caveat that said "if the funds come through" In which case, the players may not have settled. I'm surprised that you would advocate wishful thinking as a basis for a legal agreement.
You said: It's not at all a lie, not even slightly misleading... even if different from what Tim-Kee said. Tim-Kee spoke about money they were expecting, money which clearly they haven't yet gotten. All of that money could have been used for a number of things, including development of football. Instead it was earmarked for the settlement. Nothing at all wrong with the statement.
Of course, you are completely incorrect. Look at the language - Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players and to ensure that this debt is taken care of. They thought it was fit that we tried to ensure that this matter came to an end.”
Pure BS. This was money that was discovered, apparently. Like if you won the lottery and then lost the ticket. You can't say "I lost my lottery ticket so I can't feed my kids" You should have had all programmes that you could afford to run, planned. Not plan programmes you can't afford. This was a windfall and was never targeted for any other use. It was never taken from funding, it was never going towards development, no one has suffered additionally. So it is utterly, completely, thoroughly misleading.
Of course, if there was no settlement, then the windfall certainly may have been used. But there was, so it wasn't.
You said: That is nonsense. Why would anyone blame the players for the lack of funding for development?
Exactly, Sancho's point. Why would anyone blame them. Yet, unless English is your third or fourth language you cannot fail to understand that this is attempting to blame the players: Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players
It's not fact, so why say it? How can this not lead people to believe that the players received money which was taken from other programmes?
You said:The players got $1.7 million USD right after the settlement was announced, where did that money come from? Could it be that that was some of the CONCACAF TV money?
One would hope so, because that's where Tim-Kee said it was coming from. If it wasn't from there, but from "funds that has been taken[/i] from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football." then TTFA are guilty of mismanaging funds a)because they made a settlement based on funds they didn't have and b) because having done so, they then place the blame for lack of funding with the players. Sounds very similar to TTFF style financial management.
You said: The information I have is that the money was paid in November. So either I have it wrong, or your source has it wrong.
You have indeed got it wrong. No money has been paid aside from the initial payment. This has been well documented in the press since September.
You said: What "mismanagement of funds"
The first rule of financial planning/budgeting is not to commit funds you do not have. You spend money that you can guarantee. If this money wasn't guaranteed to TTFA by certain dates, that should have been made clear. By agreeing to make the payments, you are making a commitment. Of course, things can go wrong. In which case, admit there is a problem (which they did), but don't start trying to make the other party appear unreasonable because they want what was promised. You can't get vexed with T&TEC if you've used their electricity, then you don't receive some money promised to you by your auntie, and T&TEC cut you off. Only use the electricity you can pay for.
You said: You on shit yes. You reading what you want to read. It was "taken" from the women's team and the Senior MNT in the sense that it could have been earmarked for them instead but it wasn't.
Fuentes said: “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football."
Ain't no earmarking going on according to Fuentes. Read his words: “These are funds that has been taken" Can't be any clearer, therefore, actually, YOU ON SHIT.
You said: Don't blame me because I can read for understanding. You are the one who keeps confusing and in some cases misconstruing what's been stated.
This is the problem when you have two sides who have been adversaries for so long that people have dug in their heels and their anger and distrust prevents them from being able to see the merits to the other side's position.
Oh, damn...you wrote that, too!
I am not confused. I may be wrong, but we'll never know, because we're talking about opinion. In my opinion, the ordinary citizen will look at Fuentes comments and come away with the belief that money was "taken" from women, youths, SNT and coaches to pay the players. If that wasn't Fuentes intention, I apologise for the misunderstanding. But my question is: Why mention that money was "taken" from women, youths, SNT and coaches in the first place? It has nothing to do with the issue, which is that TTFA have failed to adhere to their agreement. Women, youths and SNT have nothing to do with the settlement, especially since Tim-Kee stated there was a separate source of funding for the settlement.
Finally, you said: Sancho needs to calm his ass down
To me, Sancho appears very calm. The letter was well written and included no coarse language, aimless threats or personal attacks. It just addressed quotes made by Fuentes and Tim-Kee. Now, if you want to advise people to calm down, I'd save it for Kelvin Jack who gets in town this week. Because I'm pretty sure he won't be as polite as Mr Sancho was.
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Here is the fundamental difference between me and some of the other people weighing in on the situation. Unlike FS, Weary, Lasana, Brownsugar and a couple others, I don't know any of the players personally, I never rubbed shoulders with them, I never went to court and sit on "their" side of the aisle. On the other hand, unlike Coop's, and perhaps a couple silent others, I don't have any friends in the administration either. In short I have no personal or emotional investment in this. This is not to suggest that the aforementioned forumites are incapable of looking at things objectively, but to underscore that I am trying to do just that. We were all united in our opposition to the Warner/Camps/Groden TTFF. Finally, after much lonsuffering we were able to get them out.
Now we have a new regime in charge and by any objective measure, incremental steps are being taken to not only improve the performance of all our teams on ever level, but also to reform the administration of the local game. Some of us choose to look at the glass half full, some see it half empty. Some see the efforts being made and are willing to give the TTFA the benefit of the doubt. Others look at the same situation and see the "same khaki pants". Take the Akeem jersey situation, the TTFA get lambaste for it even though they didn't print any shirt, or profit in any way from it. Whether the vendor (I forget the name of the company) profited, we don't know. I seem to remember the TTFA saying they looked at the cost breakdown and were satisfied that there was no malfeasance... yet to this day the TTFA still getting blamed.
Same for the CFU combine... Lasana to this day still blaming the TTFA for that, even though the TTFA not in position to control these private professional club's players. If it's not FIFA-related the TTFA has no control over the players, their function was that of a conduit. Emails were produced to show that Phillips passed along the information to the clubs. Yet we're still blaming the TTFA for "no TnT player getting invited to the CFU combine." It borders on the ridiculous.
Bakes, I agree with most of what you have said here. Each of us have the right to judge a subject in the context that we understand it to mean. This forum is superb because we can then voice our take on an issue and sometimes our view will change. I felt Lasana was too critical about both the t shirt and the combine issue. I could see that both could have been dealt with better by TTFA, but God knows, none of us are perfect and we have all, at some time, not carried out a task to the best of our ability for many various reasons.
My take on this Newsday article is that it was designed to shift public opinion . It may be that the journalist selected quotes that made it appear that way. In which case TTFA or Fuentes can cry foul and force an apology from Newsday and I'm sure Sancho would follow suit.
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If, as you say, they never actually had the money, then how the hell could they make a payment schedule? Surely, they would add a caveat that said "if the funds come through" In which case, the players may not have settled. I'm surprised that you would advocate wishful thinking as a basis for a legal agreement.
Do you understand the meaning of the word "advocate"... can you point to where I have "advocated" anything other than patience by the players? There is absolutely nothing wrong with proposing a payment schedule based on financial projections that you have made. I'm sure the players would not have agreed to a settlement absent such a schedule.
Of course, you are completely incorrect. Look at the language - Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players and to ensure that this debt is taken care of. They thought it was fit that we tried to ensure that this matter came to an end.”
Pure BS. This was money that was discovered, apparently. Like if you won the lottery and then lost the ticket. You can't say "I lost my lottery ticket so I can't feed my kids" You should have had all programmes that you could afford to run, planned. Not plan programmes you can't afford. This was a windfall and was never targeted for any other use. It was never taken from funding, it was never going towards development, no one has suffered additionally. So it is utterly, completely, thoroughly misleading.
Of course, if there was no settlement, then the windfall certainly may have been used. But there was, so it wasn't.
You do realize that this is the FIFA allocation of $200,000.00 USD that Fuentes is referring to here right? This is why I said to you you will read what you want to read. You are absolutely getting things confused because you refuse to see the statements in context. There's the CONCACAF TV money, and then there's the FIFA Development money. For the last time, don't confuse the two.
Exactly, Sancho's point. Why would anyone blame them. Yet, unless English is your third or fourth language you cannot fail to understand that this is attempting to blame the players: Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players
It's not fact, so why say it? How can this not lead people to believe that the players received money which was taken from other programmes?
You keep harping on that statement by Fuentes and it is clear you don't understand what he's talking about. I won't bother explaining it for you again either. Unlike you, not only is English my first language, I wield it in a commanding enough manner to have earned a bachelor degree in it, which by implication vouches for my comprehensive and expressive capabilities.
One would hope so, because that's where Tim-Kee said it was coming from. If it wasn't from there, but from "funds that has been taken[/i] from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football." then TTFA are guilty of mismanaging funds a)because they made a settlement based on funds they didn't have and b) because having done so, they then place the blame for lack of funding with the players. Sounds very similar to TTFF style financial management.
"Funds for development" is the FIFA money fella... geez.
You have indeed got it wrong. No money has been paid aside from the initial payment. This has been well documented in the press since September.
I choose to believe my source when they say that the $200,000.00 USD was paid in November.
The first rule of financial planning/budgeting is not to commit funds you do not have. You spend money that you can guarantee. If this money wasn't guaranteed to TTFA by certain dates, that should have been made clear. By agreeing to make the payments, you are making a commitment. Of course, things can go wrong. In which case, admit there is a problem (which they did), but don't start trying to make the other party appear unreasonable because they want what was promised. You can't get vexed with T&TEC if you've used their electricity, then you don't receive some money promised to you by your auntie, and T&TEC cut you off. Only use the electricity you can pay for.
Nonsense, that is the whole point of budgeting. Have you never heard of "modeling" and projecting? It's not always based on funds sitting in your account but based on projected revenue streams as well. You still haven't shown where they "mismanaged funds", the implication of those words are quite clear= The TTFF had money, and they exercised poor fiscal control of that money. Except you cannot prove that they ever had money, let alone money that was mismanaged. More emotional poppycock.
Fuentes said: “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football."
Ain't no earmarking going on according to Fuentes. Read his words: “These are funds that has been taken" Can't be any clearer, therefore, actually, YOU ON SHIT.
You not only ON shit, you must be smoking shit too, since you can't understand that there are two funding sources being discussed.
This is the problem when you have two sides who have been adversaries for so long that people have dug in their heels and their anger and distrust prevents them from being able to see the merits to the other side's position.
Oh, damn...you wrote that, too!
I am not confused. I may be wrong, but we'll never know, because we're talking about opinion. In my opinion, the ordinary citizen will look at Fuentes comments and come away with the belief that money was "taken" from women, youths, SNT and coaches to pay the players. If that wasn't Fuentes intention, I apologise for the misunderstanding. But my question is: Why mention that money was "taken" from women, youths, SNT and coaches in the first place? It has nothing to do with the issue, which is that TTFA have failed to adhere to their agreement. Women, youths and SNT have nothing to do with the settlement, especially since Tim-Kee stated there was a separate source of funding for the settlement.
Finally, you said: Sancho needs to calm his ass down
To me, Sancho appears very calm. The letter was well written and included no coarse language, aimless threats or personal attacks. It just addressed quotes made by Fuentes and Tim-Kee. Now, if you want to advise people to calm down, I'd save it for Kelvin Jack who gets in town this week. Because I'm pretty sure he won't be as polite as Mr Sancho was.
Jack can say what he wants... he's proven himself to be a hothead in this case time after time. And since you clearly don't understand what "calm his ass down" meant, it doesn't suggest that he was excited, used coarse language and all that other pablum that you wrote. It meant that he is overreacting to perceived slights that may not exists. His emotions are too caught up in the case to allow him to think with a level head and appreciate what the other side is doing. Only a fool would read Fuentes' statements and interpret that as him blaming the players for the funding issues. If I say that I couldn't pay my credit card bill this month because I had to pay my light bill that isn't me blaming the electric company for me not paying my credit card bill... that's me describing my dire situation and saying that keeping my light on was more important. Settling with the players was more important to the TTFA. I don't understand why allyuh can't see that.
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I guess my reading level is very poor because I came to the conclusion after reading Fuentes remarks that because the TTFA committed to paying off the players the football programs cannot be funded. How else to read this
Fuentes pointed out, “These are funds that has been taken from funding for the Association, that had to go towards development of all national youth teams, the development of youth football. There is a situation where football is suffering because the TTFA and (president Raymond) Tim Kee made a firm decision to come to a settlement with the players and to ensure that this debt is taken care of. They thought it was fit that we tried to ensure that this matter came to an end.”
Fuentes IS implying that because the TTFA has to pay the players National Programs are suffering.
He continued, “There has been comments that the players saw what has gone on with (former coach Russell) Latapy. He has not been paid any money, there has been an agreement towards a settlement. Leo Beenhakker has not been paid a salary, hence the reason he’s not here right now. And also, you look at the women’s team, a lot of people thought the team could have done much better with more preparation. And monies that have been used now to settle the situation that we are facing is money that should have been spent on the development of these national youth teams.”
How could one misinterpret these comment. ???
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Two men walked into an office holding a newspaper and said "We've come about the jobs advertised in the paper, but I'm afraid there's only two of us"
The manager looked puzzled, so the man holding the paper showed him the want ad. It said
TREE FELLERS WANTED
Point being that one person knows what he wants to say, but that doesn't mean that the next guy hears the same thing. Maybe Fuentes didn't mean the comments in the same context as the journalist wrote them or Sancho and others interpreted them. In which case, Fuentes just needs to clarify that.
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I guess my reading level is very poor because I came to the conclusion after reading Fuentes remarks that because the TTFA committed to paying off the players the football programs cannot be funded. How else to read this
Fuentes IS implying that because the TTFA has to pay the players National Programs are suffering.
How could one misinterpret these comment. ???
He's not implying that... he's flat-out stating that is the case. But that's different from blaming the players for the funding issue. Commence rotation on the hamster wheel.
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Two men walked into an office holding a newspaper and said "We've come about the jobs advertised in the paper, but I'm afraid there's only two of us"
The manager looked puzzled, so the man holding the paper showed him the want ad. It said
TREE FELLERS WANTED
Point being that one person knows what he wants to say, but that doesn't mean that the next guy hears the same thing. Maybe Fuentes didn't mean the comments in the same context as the journalist wrote them or Sancho and others interpreted them. In which case, Fuentes just needs to clarify that.
Agreed. I'd also have to listen to how he stated it as well... it could very well have been some chicanery intended. I don't mean to suggest that I don't see how his statments could be taken the way Sancho et al seem to take them. I just think that there's a knee-jerk reaction where the TTFA is concerned where words that on their face are innocuous, can be taken as an offense.
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Here nah, who the hell would want to have anything to do with Trinidad and Tobago football, at any level??? What ah mess!
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Two men walked into an office holding a newspaper and said "We've come about the jobs advertised in the paper, but I'm afraid there's only two of us"
The manager looked puzzled, so the man holding the paper showed him the want ad. It said
TREE FELLERS WANTED
Point being that one person knows what he wants to say, but that doesn't mean that the next guy hears the same thing. Maybe Fuentes didn't mean the comments in the same context as the journalist wrote them or Sancho and others interpreted them. In which case, Fuentes just needs to clarify that.
Agreed. I'd also have to listen to how he stated it as well... it could very well have been some chicanery intended. I don't mean to suggest that I don't see how his statments could be taken the way Sancho et al seem to take them. I just think that there's a knee-jerk reaction where the TTFA is concerned where words that on their face are innocuous, can be taken as an offense.
I believe that may well be the case. The players took a leap of faith regarding Tim-Kee, who was, after all, a key player in the previous regime. Maybe more than any of us, they were looking for more of the same and once the payment didn't arrive in September they moved their status from green to amber. Of course, Shaka, having known Sheldon Phillips for many years has more belief in TTFA than the others, and therefore has more confidence that everything is kosher and there is no underhandedness taking place.
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I guess my reading level is very poor because I came to the conclusion after reading Fuentes remarks that because the TTFA committed to paying off the players the football programs cannot be funded. How else to read this
Fuentes IS implying that because the TTFA has to pay the players National Programs are suffering.
How could one misinterpret these comment. ???
He's not implying that... he's flat-out stating that is the case. But that's different from blaming the players for the funding issue. Commence rotation on the hamster wheel.
Uh.........yes he was. If that was not the intended picture he wanted to paint, then why be so specific, re:the U20 women's team. His comments were meant to elicit a negative reaction from the public (being on a high from the recent U20 WC qualifiers and sympathetic to the women's plight) of the players (Sancho, and others). This is why he purposefully stated that the U20 team could have done better had the funds they paid to the players been available. Do play smart with dotish.
Doh worry I typed slowly
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Uh.........yes he was. If that was not the intended picture he wanted to paint, then why be so specific, re:the U20 women's team. His comments were meant to elicit a negative reaction from the public (being on a high from the recent U20 WC qualifiers and sympathetic to the women's plight) of the players (Sancho, and others). This is why he purposefully stated that the U20 team could have done better had the funds they paid to the players been available. Do play smart with dotish.
Doh worry I typed slowly
Type slow, type fast it doesn't make your position any more persuasive. I'm not a mind reader so I won't comment on what Fuentes intended by his comments. As I said, I read them as a statement as to the TTFA's commitment to working things out with the payments. "Look we could'a do all kinds ah thing with the money, but no, we sacrificed X, Y, and Z in order to try and settle this first. Things ain't work out the way either side expected, but this is a small hiccup, just be patient and give us a chance." Clearly you and several others see things differently, so we just have to agree to disagree and move on.
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Uh.........yes he was. If that was not the intended picture he wanted to paint, then why be so specific, re:the U20 women's team. His comments were meant to elicit a negative reaction from the public (being on a high from the recent U20 WC qualifiers and sympathetic to the women's plight) of the players (Sancho, and others). This is why he purposefully stated that the U20 team could have done better had the funds they paid to the players been available. Do play smart with dotish.
Doh worry I typed slowly
Type slow, type fast it doesn't make your position any more persuasive. I'm not a mind reader so I won't comment on what Fuentes intended by his comments. As I said, I read them as a statement as to the TTFA's commitment to working things out with the payments. "Look we could'a do all kinds ah thing with the money, but no, we sacrificed X, Y, and Z in order to try and settle this first. Things ain't work out the way either side expected, but this is a small hiccup, just be patient and give us a chance." Clearly you and several others see things differently, so we just have to agree to disagree and move on.
Yea You all agree on the majority of issues here, except the final logic step which Bakes refutes - namely that we draw the inference that Fuentes is blaming the players for the diversion of money, whilst Bakes understood his statement to be simply a statement of fact without attributed blame.
:)
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Uh.........yes he was. If that was not the intended picture he wanted to paint, then why be so specific, re:the U20 women's team. His comments were meant to elicit a negative reaction from the public (being on a high from the recent U20 WC qualifiers and sympathetic to the women's plight) of the players (Sancho, and others). This is why he purposefully stated that the U20 team could have done better had the funds they paid to the players been available. Do play smart with dotish.
Doh worry I typed slowly
Type slow, type fast it doesn't make your position any more persuasive. I'm not a mind reader so I won't comment on what Fuentes intended by his comments. As I said, I read them as a statement as to the TTFA's commitment to working things out with the payments. "Look we could'a do all kinds ah thing with the money, but no, we sacrificed X, Y, and Z in order to try and settle this first. Things ain't work out the way either side expected, but this is a small hiccup, just be patient and give us a chance." Clearly you and several others see things differently, so we just have to agree to disagree and move on.
Yea You all agree on the majority of issues here, except the final logic step which Bakes refutes - namely that we draw the inference that Fuentes is blaming the players for the diversion of money, whilst Bakes understood his statement to be simply a statement of fact without attributed blame.
:)
But that it's not fully a statement of fact.
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Brent Sancho tells Raw Sport TV 'Enough is Enough' and calls on TTFA to get its act together and go after old administration for monies owed or face the music in Court.
https://www.facebook.com/socawarriors.net/posts/10151895713533093
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Brent Sancho tells Raw Sport TV 'Enough is Enough' and calls on TTFA to get its act together and go after old administration for monies owed or face the music in Court.
https://www.facebook.com/socawarriors.net/posts/10151895713533093
Very productive interview and many thanks to Brent for clarifying everything for us.
We also need back our Centre of Excellence when we go after the stolen money.
I left these comments on the facebook page also. :beermug:
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Excellent stuff by Sancho. What a brave young man. Fearless. Some characters on this site who belong to the Horner posse will resent you for voicing this stuff so eloquently ... but I say to them, go to hell and burn like a charburger. The truth is the truth and you must be lauded for doing what most of us have NO guts to do. May God reward you handsomely for your sacrifice and may you face minimal further perfection for this.
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TTFA President Raymond Tim Kee stands firm on World Cup saga; Explains TTFA's position on the agreement with the 2006 Soca Warriors and tells them feel free to take the matter to Court.
http://www.youtube.com/v/4Vh-sVzNlSk
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Tim Kee is not going after Jack, he is a woss.
Sancho and company had their chance to screw Jack and didn't eaither.
They cant expect another man to fight their battle.
One question, does the TTFA HAVE TO PAY THE 2006 WARRIORS ??
I find Sancho and company could join forces with the TTFA and all go after Jack, but that will not happen because of Tim Kee.
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TTFA President Raymond Tim Kee stands firm on World Cup saga; Explains TTFA's position on the agreement with the 2006 Soca Warriors and tells them feel free to take the matter to Court.
http://www.youtube.com/v/4Vh-sVzNlSk
So yuh rude now.
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Sancho will not risk putting the TTFA in court knowing that it will only affect his Central FC players/club who is looking for caps so they can get a foreign contracts.
I like Tim Kee attitude.
Stand up brother.
****message sent from Tim Kee's office****
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Sancho will not risk putting the TTFA in court knowing that it will only affect his Central FC players/club who is looking for caps so they can get a foreign contracts.
I like Tim Kee attitude.
Stand up brother.
****message sent from Tim Kee's office****
Who de f00ck is you, Tim Kee's special advisor.
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TTFA President Raymond Tim Kee stands firm on World Cup saga; Explains TTFA's position on the agreement with the 2006 Soca Warriors and tells them feel free to take the matter to Court.
http://www.youtube.com/v/4Vh-sVzNlSk
Everything he said, Sancho already said all that. What's his point?
He does not fill me with confidence that T&T football has a bright future.
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De way Tim Kee talks, he does sound like a blasted coward.
I going down for Carnival, if ah meet him in any fete is f00cking clout for real, hard, hard calpat, he and he camera man Fuentes !!!
Ah hope Fuentes flim that.
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What a great man.......football owes him money and he still giving........sounds like another football philanthropist from years past......Channel 2&13.......so they siphoning money from FIFA via CONCACAF instead of finding the money that was stolen by the previous administration.........cowards and thieves
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Losing respect more and more for Uncle Timo and he is showing more clearly the expected behaviors of a man who probably spent alot of time under the corrupting and soul-destroying tutelage of Jackulito. He clearly may have done some good recently and I am grateful especially when you compare it to hard core Renraw but I say no mercy for his manipulative current behavior. Notice the comments to the effect "I reserve the right to exercise my options" which was said in response to the theoretical scenario of Sancho & company deciding to go to court. This along with few other things he said in conjunction with the body language, I interpret as a threat to resign and jump ship from the TTFA post, under the Jackulito-esque arrogant premise/assumption that (paraphrasing) "I am your only hope to be reasonable with you Sancho and your band of misfits" and that "yuh better cool yuh tool" and "doh geh me angry or else "yuh on yuh own" and "mornkey go smoke yuh effin pipe when it comes to you EVER seeing justice without me (Uncle Timo)". Uncle Timo, I say to you bring it on!!! and let's also see how long you last on the ELECTED position of mayor while we go after the next in line ( football collapse or no football collapse). When there is enough collective pain including to all here, then you will see action on Renraw's alleged siphoned funds. You need to show some awareness of public sentiment and address the burning question of what happened to and what you have to say about the millions in development-sabotaging missing funds which could be partially recovered with the right kind of collaboration with other powerful local and international stakeholders. Fühget the convenience of the gin and tonic water lime .... unless you too have a brown envelope trail to conceal. So watch yuh contents bro.
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Is it just me or does Tim Kee sound a bit like Jack Warner? (I'm not talking about audibly)
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Losing respect more and more for Uncle Timo and he is showing more clearly the expected behaviors of a man who probably spent alot of time under the corrupting and soul-destroying tutelage of Jackulito. He clearly may have done some good recently and I am grateful especially when you compare it to hard core Renraw but I say no mercy for his manipulative current behavior. Notice the comments to the effect "I reserve the right to exercise my options" which was said in response to the theoretical scenario of Sancho & company deciding to go to court. This along with few other things he said in conjunction with the body language, I interpret as a threat to resign and jump ship from the TTFA post, under the Jackulito-esque arrogant premise/assumption that (paraphrasing) "I am your only hope to be reasonable with you Sancho and your band of misfits" and that "yuh better cool yuh tool" and "doh geh me angry or else "yuh on yuh own" and "mornkey go smoke yuh effin pipe when it comes to you EVER seeing justice without me (Uncle Timo)". Uncle Timo, I say to you bring it on!!! and let's also see how long you last on the ELECTED position of mayor while we go after the next in line ( football collapse or no football collapse). When there is enough collective pain including to all here, then you will see action on Renraw's alleged siphoned funds. You need to show some awareness of public sentiment and address the burning question of what happened to and what you have to say about the millions in development-sabotaging missing funds which could be partially recovered with the right kind of collaboration with other powerful local and international stakeholders. Fühget the convenience of the gin and tonic water lime .... unless you too have a brown envelope trail to conceal. So watch yuh contents bro.
I does really wonder about some ah allyuh yes. Tim Kee was extremely thorough and reasonable in his statements. Sancho, and some of you here, seem more upset about the fact that the current administration has so far declined to take Jack to court, than over the fact that the payments are late. There are legitimate reasons why the payments are late, as outlined in painstaking detail by Tim Kee, and it validates everything that I have been saying to FS so far:
1. The CONCACAF TV Rights monies were paid to the TTFA, and the TTFA used this money to make the lump sum payment to the players.
2. A Second payment (I believe in the amount of $200,000) was paid to the players after September... this is the controversial "development money" that Fuentes talked about, that has Sancho up in arms about "defending his honor."
3. Representations were made to the TTFA by CONCACAF that more monies were forthcoming, thru FIFA. That money has been held up, but on the basis of that promise, the TTFA in good faith made the proposal they did to the players, with the payment plan. Clearly the fact that the money hasn't been paid as promised is not the fault of the TTFA, and neither did FIFA say they money would not be forthcoming. All they are asking is that the players be patient with them.
As for the bolded statements above... that might be how you interpret his comments, but actually what he is saying... and he actually stated it in clear terms, is that IF he really wanted, he could have the TTFA declare bankruptcy and wind down the business. Under that scenario, any debt owed to the players would be erased. That would of course be unfair to the players, but legally, he would be within his right to do it, and none of them would have any recourse. Rather than go that route, he has taken the approach of trying to pay the players what is rightfully theirs... and yet here it is he's being lambasted and compared to Jack Warner. This scorched earth approach by Sancho is very counter-productive. I don't know who is whispering this "court" stuff in his ear, but it's foolish talk. The only people who would benefit from that approach would be the lawyers, who will get their money either way.
This is also true of the "sue Jack Warner" campaign... yes, the TTFA could sue Jack, and very likely might prevail in proving that he stole money from the organization, but if the TTFA don't have any money now, how are they supposed to pay lawyers to go to court? And let's not forget that these are TnT courts we're talking about. It will be years before this case resolves... and then, another couple of years (if they win), and more lawyer fees to recover money from Jack. In the end it very well might prove a Pyrrhic victory. People not seeing that, they too busy wanting revenge against Jack to care. Meanwhile for every year that any such suit drags on, resources will be diverted from our football... and the players would be standing with dey balls in dey hands because they won't be seeing a penny. Yes right now they also not getting any money, but at least the organization trying to work with allyuh, just be reasonable and give them a chance to make good on their promise.
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Look ah next set ah greedy players.
https://www.youtube.com/v/KTLlt83xmX8
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Very well articulated Bakes...best post you have made on this website by far not that my comments count.
Sancho like he jus catch ah vaps...instead of ah JAPS....or..somebody chain up he head.
As you say...communication is KEY and Mr. Tim Kee is leaving d door open to them ....
Name anyone else who is presently experienced enough who would do a better job than Mr. Tim Kee as an Administrator in TNT...??
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Losing respect more and more for Uncle Timo and he is showing more clearly the expected behaviors of a man who probably spent alot of time under the corrupting and soul-destroying tutelage of Jackulito. He clearly may have done some good recently and I am grateful especially when you compare it to hard core Renraw but I say no mercy for his manipulative current behavior. Notice the comments to the effect "I reserve the right to exercise my options" which was said in response to the theoretical scenario of Sancho & company deciding to go to court. This along with few other things he said in conjunction with the body language, I interpret as a threat to resign and jump ship from the TTFA post, under the Jackulito-esque arrogant premise/assumption that (paraphrasing) "I am your only hope to be reasonable with you Sancho and your band of misfits" and that "yuh better cool yuh tool" and "doh geh me angry or else "yuh on yuh own" and "mornkey go smoke yuh effin pipe when it comes to you EVER seeing justice without me (Uncle Timo)". Uncle Timo, I say to you bring it on!!! and let's also see how long you last on the ELECTED position of mayor while we go after the next in line ( football collapse or no football collapse). When there is enough collective pain including to all here, then you will see action on Renraw's alleged siphoned funds. You need to show some awareness of public sentiment and address the burning question of what happened to and what you have to say about the millions in development-sabotaging missing funds which could be partially recovered with the right kind of collaboration with other powerful local and international stakeholders. Fühget the convenience of the gin and tonic water lime .... unless you too have a brown envelope trail to conceal. So watch yuh contents bro.
I does really wonder about some ah allyuh yes. Tim Kee was extremely thorough and reasonable in his statements. Sancho, and some of you here, seem more upset about the fact that the current administration has so far declined to take Jack to court, than over the fact that the payments are late. There are legitimate reasons why the payments are late, as outlined in painstaking detail by Tim Kee, and it validates everything that I have been saying to FS so far:
1. The CONCACAF TV Rights monies were paid to the TTFA, and the TTFA used this money to make the lump sum payment to the players.
2. A Second payment (I believe in the amount of $200,000) was paid to the players after September... this is the controversial "development money" that Fuentes talked about, that has Sancho up in arms about "defending his honor."
3. Representations were made to the TTFA by CONCACAF that more monies were forthcoming, thru FIFA. That money has been held up, but on the basis of that promise, the TTFA in good faith made the proposal they did to the players, with the payment plan. Clearly the fact that the money hasn't been paid as promised is not the fault of the TTFA, and neither did FIFA say they money would not be forthcoming. All they are asking is that the players be patient with them.
As for the bolded statements above... that might be how you interpret his comments, but actually what he is saying... and he actually stated it in clear terms, is that IF he really wanted, he could have the TTFA declare bankruptcy and wind down the business. Under that scenario, any debt owed to the players would be erased. That would of course be unfair to the players, but legally, he would be within his right to do it, and none of them would have any recourse. Rather than go that route, he has taken the approach of trying to pay the players what is rightfully theirs... and yet here it is he's being lambasted and compared to Jack Warner. This scorched earth approach by Sancho is very counter-productive. I don't know who is whispering this "court" stuff in his ear, but it's foolish talk. The only people who would benefit from that approach would be the lawyers, who will get their money either way.
This is also true of the "sue Jack Warner" campaign... yes, the TTFA could sue Jack, and very likely might prevail in proving that he stole money from the organization, but if the TTFA don't have any money now, how are they supposed to pay lawyers to go to court? And let's not forget that these are TnT courts we're talking about. It will be years before this case resolves... and then, another couple of years (if they win), and more lawyer fees to recover money from Jack. In the end it very well might prove a Pyrrhic victory. People not seeing that, they too busy wanting revenge against Jack to care. Meanwhile for every year that any such suit drags on, resources will be diverted from our football... and the players would be standing with dey balls in dey hands because they won't be seeing a penny. Yes right now they also not getting any money, but at least the organization trying to work with allyuh, just be reasonable and give them a chance to make good on their promise.
Good post. :beermug:
Now that I have watched the video and have seen both sides of the story I believe Sancho and the other Warriors need to be patient as going to the court right now will only benefit the lawyers if the TTFA has no money and are doing their best to live up to the agreement.
I also think while the TTFA is struggling to get back on its feet it is best to leave Jack right now until they are financially in a stronger position to go after him for their money sometime in the future.
Sancho and the rest of the Warriors I support you guys but I think Tim Kee has been doing his best to live up to the agreement but certain things are not in the TTFA's control.
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I'm torn - I support Sancho's right to force the TTFA to honour the debt, but understand if what he's saying is true - that CONCACAF are not upholding their end of the bargain. Unless the deal explicitly stated teh dependency on CONCACAF money I'm not sure what the way to go is!
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Good post. :beermug:
Now that I have watched the video and have seen both sides of the story I believe Sancho and the other Warriors need to be patient as going to the court right now will only benefit the lawyers if the TTFA has no money and are doing their best to live up to the agreement.
I also think while the TTFA is struggling to get back on its feet it is best to leave Jack right now until they are financially in a stronger position to go after him for their money sometime in the future.
Sancho and the rest of the Warriors I support you guys but I think Tim Kee has been doing his best to live up to the agreement but certain things are not in the TTFA's control.
Fully agreed. Anybody who have followed my posts over the years know that I have been firmly in the players' corner from the start. My support of them never wavered. I was the first person on this site to say that even though Jack's promise wasn't in writing, it still formed a valid contract and the players would win. So this isn't about me all of a sudden being against them or for the TTFA. I think there has been so much bad blood and distrust engendered these past 7 years that it's hard for the players to trust the TTFA, no matter who in charge. But even if the players go to court tomorrow and get a judge to force the TTFA to live up to the agreement, where they getting money from? A little bit of commonsense must prevail.
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Losing respect more and more for Uncle Timo and he is showing more clearly the expected behaviors of a man who probably spent alot of time under the corrupting and soul-destroying tutelage of Jackulito. He clearly may have done some good recently and I am grateful especially when you compare it to hard core Renraw but I say no mercy for his manipulative current behavior. Notice the comments to the effect "I reserve the right to exercise my options" which was said in response to the theoretical scenario of Sancho & company deciding to go to court. This along with few other things he said in conjunction with the body language, I interpret as a threat to resign and jump ship from the TTFA post, under the Jackulito-esque arrogant premise/assumption that (paraphrasing) "I am your only hope to be reasonable with you Sancho and your band of misfits" and that "yuh better cool yuh tool" and "doh geh me angry or else "yuh on yuh own" and "mornkey go smoke yuh effin pipe when it comes to you EVER seeing justice without me (Uncle Timo)". Uncle Timo, I say to you bring it on!!! and let's also see how long you last on the ELECTED position of mayor while we go after the next in line ( football collapse or no football collapse). When there is enough collective pain including to all here, then you will see action on Renraw's alleged siphoned funds. You need to show some awareness of public sentiment and address the burning question of what happened to and what you have to say about the millions in development-sabotaging missing funds which could be partially recovered with the right kind of collaboration with other powerful local and international stakeholders. Fühget the convenience of the gin and tonic water lime .... unless you too have a brown envelope trail to conceal. So watch yuh contents bro.
I does really wonder about some ah allyuh yes. Tim Kee was extremely thorough and reasonable in his statements. Sancho, and some of you here, seem more upset about the fact that the current administration has so far declined to take Jack to court, than over the fact that the payments are late. There are legitimate reasons why the payments are late, as outlined in painstaking detail by Tim Kee, and it validates everything that I have been saying to FS so far:
1. The CONCACAF TV Rights monies were paid to the TTFA, and the TTFA used this money to make the lump sum payment to the players.
2. A Second payment (I believe in the amount of $200,000) was paid to the players after September... this is the controversial "development money" that Fuentes talked about, that has Sancho up in arms about "defending his honor."
3. Representations were made to the TTFA by CONCACAF that more monies were forthcoming, thru FIFA. That money has been held up, but on the basis of that promise, the TTFA in good faith made the proposal they did to the players, with the payment plan. Clearly the fact that the money hasn't been paid as promised is not the fault of the TTFA, and neither did FIFA say they money would not be forthcoming. All they are asking is that the players be patient with them.
As for the bolded statements above... that might be how you interpret his comments, but actually what he is saying... and he actually stated it in clear terms, is that IF he really wanted, he could have the TTFA declare bankruptcy and wind down the business. Under that scenario, any debt owed to the players would be erased. That would of course be unfair to the players, but legally, he would be within his right to do it, and none of them would have any recourse. Rather than go that route, he has taken the approach of trying to pay the players what is rightfully theirs... and yet here it is he's being lambasted and compared to Jack Warner. This scorched earth approach by Sancho is very counter-productive. I don't know who is whispering this "court" stuff in his ear, but it's foolish talk. The only people who would benefit from that approach would be the lawyers, who will get their money either way.
This is also true of the "sue Jack Warner" campaign... yes, the TTFA could sue Jack, and very likely might prevail in proving that he stole money from the organization, but if the TTFA don't have any money now, how are they supposed to pay lawyers to go to court? And let's not forget that these are TnT courts we're talking about. It will be years before this case resolves... and then, another couple of years (if they win), and more lawyer fees to recover money from Jack. In the end it very well might prove a Pyrrhic victory. People not seeing that, they too busy wanting revenge against Jack to care. Meanwhile for every year that any such suit drags on, resources will be diverted from our football... and the players would be standing with dey balls in dey hands because they won't be seeing a penny. Yes right now they also not getting any money, but at least the organization trying to work with allyuh, just be reasonable and give them a chance to make good on their promise.
Why would you make an agreement on ghost money? That is the TTFF fault. You can say Sancho and they should be patient, but you cannot absolve the TTFA from their responsibility by blaming FIFA.
Would that hold up in court Bakes?
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Why would you make an agreement on ghost money? That is the TTFF fault. You can say Sancho and they should be patient, but you cannot absolve the TTFA from their responsibility by blaming FIFA.
Would that hold up in court Bakes?
Absolutely. If the TTFA could demonstrate that every time FIFA made similar promises in the past they have come thru, then their reliance on the FIFA promise in this instance was reasonable and justified. The change in circumstances was beyond their control. Not only that, the TTFA has a ton of evidence on their side demonstrating that they've been acting in good faith in trying to pay the players.
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Why would you make an agreement on ghost money? That is the TTFF fault. You can say Sancho and they should be patient, but you cannot absolve the TTFA from their responsibility by blaming FIFA.
Would that hold up in court Bakes?
Absolutely. If the TTFA could demonstrate that every time FIFA made similar promises in the past they have come thru, then their reliance on the FIFA promise in this instance was reasonable and justified. The change in circumstances was beyond their control. Not only that, the TTFA has a ton of evidence on their side demonstrating that they've been acting in good faith in trying to pay the players.
Obviously, I tend to see the players point of view first, so of course I am bias.
But surely if you make an agreement with someone, as a point of law, can you be absolved of your responsibilities because somebody else didn't pay you? I understand that the judge may have sympathy with the efforts made, and may award TTFA more time, but even then I'm sure he'd want a confirmed source of payment?
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Why would you make an agreement on ghost money? That is the TTFF fault. You can say Sancho and they should be patient, but you cannot absolve the TTFA from their responsibility by blaming FIFA.
Would that hold up in court Bakes?
Absolutely. If the TTFA could demonstrate that every time FIFA made similar promises in the past they have come thru, then their reliance on the FIFA promise in this instance was reasonable and justified. The change in circumstances was beyond their control. Not only that, the TTFA has a ton of evidence on their side demonstrating that they've been acting in good faith in trying to pay the players.
Obviously, I tend to see the players point of view first, so of course I am bias.
But surely if you make an agreement with someone, as a point of law, can you be absolved of your responsibilities because somebody else didn't pay you? I understand that the judge may have sympathy with the efforts made, and may award TTFA more time, but even then I'm sure he'd want a confirmed source of payment?
Ok..Let me ask you this, FS. When the players take TTFA to court, in this case...and win, cause contract/agreement or what ever reason,..what will happen then ? Unless, yáll can show some evidence of some alternative secret bank account, I don't have no idea.
So I am not question the judgement, but what in your view, is an theoretical effective end result ?
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Ok..Let me ask you this, FS. When the players take TTFA to court, in this case...and win, cause contract/agreement or what ever reason,..what will happen then ? Unless, yáll can show some evidence of some alternative secret bank account, I don't have no idea.
So I am not question the judgement, but what in your view, is an theoretical effective end result ?
Thank you! I wasn't going to get into yet another back and forth with FS, I see no need to get on that hamster wheel. It matters not what I think a judge will or won't do. The fact is we are where we are, so what do we do from here? FS hasn't addressed Tim Kee's comments and how they square with his previous arguments. I maintained that the players received a $200,000 payment after September, he swore I was wrong. Well Tim Kee confirmed it. Let Sancho and the others prove him a liar if he's wrong.
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Well guys, I have no idea exactly what the players expect if they go back to court. I have spoken to one or two of the players, but, as yet, I'm not a party to their strategy. But I think one thing is abundantly clear (and hasn't been mentioned yet): If TTFA/TTFF whoever, are closed down, the players risk losing everything they have been promised.
Back in the day, the players said that this was about principle as well as dollars. For 20 years, they believed, football had been raped. Those that were guilty should be brought to justice and the money returned.
Has nobody considered that this may also be their motive? After all, we're always talking about one political party not chasing down the previous regime and by not doing so, they're just as guilty.
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Well guys, I have no idea exactly what the players expect if they go back to court. I have spoken to one or two of the players, but, as yet, I'm not a party to their strategy. But I think one thing is abundantly clear (and hasn't been mentioned yet): If TTFA/TTFF whoever, are closed down, the players risk losing everything they have been promised.
Back in the day, the players said that this was about principle as well as dollars. For 20 years, they believed, football had been raped. Those that were guilty should be brought to justice and the money returned.
Has nobody considered that this may also be their motive? After all, we're always talking about one political party not chasing down the previous regime and by not doing so, they're just as guilty.
Are you serious??
... Sancho, and some of you here, seem more upset about the fact that the current administration has so far declined to take Jack to court, than over the fact that the payments are late.
----
is that IF he really wanted, he could have the TTFA declare bankruptcy and wind down the business. Under that scenario, any debt owed to the players would be erased. That would of course be unfair to the players, but legally, he would be within his right to do it, and none of them would have any recourse.
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Reverse Jedi psychology bout nuttin from nuttin is nuttin.........burn it down tuh d ground and let somebody else start it from scratch
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So with a closed down TTFA/TTFF. What would be the state of TT football ? Doesn't that mean no more staff, National Team competitions etc ? Doesn't that mean, no more Concacaf, & Fifa tournaments for clubs, players etc. What about transfers to other Higher level pro teams . how is that affected ? Ok, one option. The other, to keep us in Concacaf, they(maybe with FIFA) pays the debt. What is their motivation (or justification - to give a few players on the richest island in the region money ) Does the region bring in great returns for FIFA ? What does our women programs do, who does development at any level? just shooting questions on the fly, no deep thought..
My mother work over 40 years as a civil servant, never took a holiday, she never managed to accumulate 100 K in unit trust. If a few of the players really under suffrage for their monies, that is rightfully theirs for bringing so much, pride, investment and positive guidance to our youth. My mom never managed to do any of that, she just showed up for work everyday, and so did many of TT youth grands, many of them played football too, and cricket, and they weren't pros..but I digress..
Given the situation at present in our society and our moving into the 21st century of today, maybe it doesn't matter if TTFA is shut down, cause the new world order football and the crooks it developed may have played a detrimental role in our development as well. Maybe there is to much money promised and floating around to to few, and causing the many to seek easy ways of acquisition, poisioning themselves slowly in the process.
I really at a lost here on what is the best way to proceed.. The players have the right, yes..but is it practical to excersie the right at this time ?
add: Can FIFA takeConCACAF o court for money given to TTFA, earmarked for development, which hTim Kee emphatically stated was told to them , he would use it to play the players ?
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add: Can FIFA takeConCACAF o court for money given to TTFA, earmarked for development, which hTim Kee emphatically stated was told to them , he would use it to play the players ?
FIFA gave them permission to use it to pay the players... Tim Kee explained all of that. FIFA couldn't just give them money to pay off the debt, lest every other Federation come with hat in hand, so the money was designated for "development" with the understanding that it would be put towards the debt. Other similar payments were to follow, but then the situation in Brazil forced FIFA's hand, and the money got held up.
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Ok..Let me ask you this, FS. When the players take TTFA to court, in this case...and win, cause contract/agreement or what ever reason,..what will happen then ? Unless, yáll can show some evidence of some alternative secret bank account, I don't have no idea.
So I am not question the judgement, but what in your view, is an theoretical effective end result ?
Thank you! I wasn't going to get into yet another back and forth with FS, I see no need to get on that hamster wheel. It matters not what I think a judge will or won't do. The fact is we are where we are, so what do we do from here? FS hasn't addressed Tim Kee's comments and how they square with his previous arguments. I maintained that the players received a $200,000 payment after September, he swore I was wrong. Well Tim Kee confirmed it. Let Sancho and the others prove him a liar if he's wrong.
I am not dealing with what they could get, just that the TTFA IS responsible for the payment and not FIFA or CONCACAF. Obviously, the TTFA have no money and cannot pay them. That I am not disputing. What I am disputing is that the TTFA is DIRECTLY responsible for the payment and the reason/excuse that they give about FIFA holds no water.
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Well guys, I have no idea exactly what the players expect if they go back to court. I have spoken to one or two of the players, but, as yet, I'm not a party to their strategy. But I think one thing is abundantly clear (and hasn't been mentioned yet): If TTFA/TTFF whoever, are closed down, the players risk losing everything they have been promised.
Back in the day, the players said that this was about principle as well as dollars. For 20 years, they believed, football had been raped. Those that were guilty should be brought to justice and the money returned.
Has nobody considered that this may also be their motive? After all, we're always talking about one political party not chasing down the previous regime and by not doing so, they're just as guilty.
Are you serious??
... Sancho, and some of you here, seem more upset about the fact that the current administration has so far declined to take Jack to court, than over the fact that the payments are late.
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is that IF he really wanted, he could have the TTFA declare bankruptcy and wind down the business. Under that scenario, any debt owed to the players would be erased. That would of course be unfair to the players, but legally, he would be within his right to do it, and none of them would have any recourse.
Saying people may be upset isn't the same as saying that this may be their motive behind threatening court. And saying their debts may be erased is a consequence not a motive. In any case, I may be mistaken about their reasons, but it just struck me that (in my view) that scenario had not been debated here.
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Saying people may be upset isn't the same as saying that this may be their motive behind threatening court. And saying their debts may be erased is a consequence not a motive. In any case, I may be mistaken about their reasons, but it just struck me that (in my view) that scenario had not been debated here.
As usual, you will see what you want to see. The suggestion has been clear that this could be more about forcing the TTFA to take Jack to court. Second, no one said "their debts may be erased", I said their debts would be erased. The context of the statement is clear both from what I posted, and what Tim Kee said. He considered the bankruptcy route, which is to say he gave it thought, but didn't think it would be fair to the players. He also made it clear that if the players forced his hand by taking the TTFA to court over the delayed payments, that he reserves the right to declare bankruptcy and wind down the organization. You still think that's "consequence" and not motive? Okay.
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add: Can FIFA takeConCACAF o court for money given to TTFA, earmarked for development, which hTim Kee emphatically stated was told to them , he would use it to play the players ?
FIFA gave them permission to use it to pay the players... Tim Kee explained all of that. FIFA couldn't just give them money to pay off the debt, lest every other Federation come with hat in hand, so the money was designated for "development" with the understanding that it would be put towards the debt. Other similar payments were to follow, but then the situation in Brazil forced FIFA's hand, and the money got held up.
ok, got it..thanks
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Ok..hear my plan..snd is probably the plan all along...Take the TTFA to court..They close shop. Apply to CONCACAF and FIFA to run football in the country.
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Why would you make an agreement on ghost money? That is the TTFF fault. You can say Sancho and they should be patient, but you cannot absolve the TTFA from their responsibility by blaming FIFA.
Would that hold up in court Bakes?
Absolutely. If the TTFA could demonstrate that every time FIFA made similar promises in the past they have come thru, then their reliance on the FIFA promise in this instance was reasonable and justified. The change in circumstances was beyond their control. Not only that, the TTFA has a ton of evidence on their side demonstrating that they've been acting in good faith in trying to pay the players.
That there can't be right. I will try that with my credit card. When they take me to court for outstanding balance. I will let the judge know that I intend to pay when my buddy who is wealthy give me money he owe me.
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Why would you make an agreement on ghost money? That is the TTFF fault. You can say Sancho and they should be patient, but you cannot absolve the TTFA from their responsibility by blaming FIFA.
Would that hold up in court Bakes?
Absolutely. If the TTFA could demonstrate that every time FIFA made similar promises in the past they have come thru, then their reliance on the FIFA promise in this instance was reasonable and justified. The change in circumstances was beyond their control. Not only that, the TTFA has a ton of evidence on their side demonstrating that they've been acting in good faith in trying to pay the players.
That there can't be right. I will try that with my credit card. When they take me to court for outstanding balance. I will let the judge know that I intend to pay when my buddy who is wealthy give me money he owe me.
Not good enough, Elan, you would also need a ton of evidence on your side demonstrating that you've been acting in good faith in trying to pay the credit card company. :devil:
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That there can't be right. I will try that with my credit card. When they take me to court for outstanding balance. I will let the judge know that I intend to pay when my buddy who is wealthy give me money he owe me.
The key difference that you are not grasping is that every local federation is dependent on FIFA for funding to some level. Some are more independent than others, but FIFA is a legitimate source of funds, per the business model it has established with the Confederations, and then down to the Federation/Association level. Therefore if this is legitimately a source of funds that the local Association could bank on under typical circumstances, then that reliance is justified. You could try to mock my answer all you want, but one of us is right in what he's saying, and it's not you.
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That there can't be right. I will try that with my credit card. When they take me to court for outstanding balance. I will let the judge know that I intend to pay when my buddy who is wealthy give me money he owe me.
The key difference that you are not grasping is that every local federation is dependent on FIFA for funding to some level. Some are more independent than others, but FIFA is a legitimate source of funds, per the business model it has established with the Confederations, and then down to the Federation/Association level. Therefore if this is legitimately a source of funds that the local Association could bank on under typical circumstances, then that reliance is justified. You could try to mock my answer all you want, but one of us is right in what he's saying, and it's not you.
Absolute :bs:
Show me where FIFA does give federation money for such a purpose? That is something I can learn. Cause Tim Kee say FIFA turn them down twice. Then he (Tim Kee) rachet up ah scene to get the money. So I will like to see the precedent for what you state there. Tim Kee even say that FIFA tell them they do not want people to think that they can come to FIFA for money in that manner.
They give money to federations, but for football development.
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That there can't be right. I will try that with my credit card. When they take me to court for outstanding balance. I will let the judge know that I intend to pay when my buddy who is wealthy give me money he owe me.
The key difference that you are not grasping is that every local federation is dependent on FIFA for funding to some level. Some are more independent than others, but FIFA is a legitimate source of funds, per the business model it has established with the Confederations, and then down to the Federation/Association level. Therefore if this is legitimately a source of funds that the local Association could bank on under typical circumstances, then that reliance is justified. You could try to mock my answer all you want, but one of us is right in what he's saying, and it's not you.
Absolute :bs:
Show me where FIFA does give federation money for such a purpose? That is something I can learn. Cause Tim Kee say FIFA turn them down twice. Then he (Tim Kee) rachet up ah scene to get the money. So I will like to see the precedent for what you state there. Tim Kee even say that FIFA tell them they do not want people to think that they can come to FIFA for money in that manner.
They give money to federations, but for football development.
This.
Tim Kee promised money on an unreasonable expectation that FIFA would cover these bills. Bakes if someone owed you a sizeable sum of money and had been delaying for 8 years would you really be thinking 'let's just give them more time'. If so, I have a donkey to sell you...
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Tiresais, you conjure a dilemma: why would Bakes need a donkey? :thinking:
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Tiresais, you conjure a dilemma: why would Bakes need a donkey? :thinking:
Why would he not want a unique 2-legged donkey? There's none in the world like it and available for money-down now, donkey in 8 years (while it grows of course)
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Absolute :bs:
Show me where FIFA does give federation money for such a purpose? That is something I can learn. Cause Tim Kee say FIFA turn them down twice. Then he (Tim Kee) rachet up ah scene to get the money. So I will like to see the precedent for what you state there. Tim Kee even say that FIFA tell them they do not want people to think that they can come to FIFA for money in that manner.
They give money to federations, but for football development.
Something wrong with your comprehension or what? I said nothing about "purpose" or anything like that, you need to read closer... and for understanding. What you continue to miss, and I'm beginning to think it's purposely now, is that the relationship between FIFA and the Confederations and local Associations is akin to the franchise model. Except that FIFA provides more by way of funding than supplies, infrastructure etc. FIFA promised to send intermittent payments earmarked for "development"... that flow of funds was interrupted. The TTFA's reliance on that promise was both reasonable and justifiable. You don't have to take my word for it, but just watch and see. The players, despite all the gun talk from Sancho will not be taking the TTFA to court over this. It is a losing case. You don't have to agree with me.
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This.
Tim Kee promised money on an unreasonable expectation that FIFA would cover these bills. Bakes if someone owed you a sizeable sum of money and had been delaying for 8 years would you really be thinking 'let's just give them more time'. If so, I have a donkey to sell you...
I am not going to waste my time going back and forth with you on this forum. You have no understanding or appreciation for what is reasonable or unreasonable within this (contract law) context. All you have is your opinion, which frankly I'm not interested in.
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This.
Tim Kee promised money on an unreasonable expectation that FIFA would cover these bills. Bakes if someone owed you a sizeable sum of money and had been delaying for 8 years would you really be thinking 'let's just give them more time'. If so, I have a donkey to sell you...
I am not going to waste my time going back and forth with you on this forum. You have no understanding or appreciation for what is reasonable or unreasonable within this (contract law) context. All you have is your opinion, which frankly I'm not interested in.
Bakes we disagree on what is acceptable behaviour by a representative body such as the TTFA and that's fine. I'm not arguing from contract law - I'm not qualified to talk on that, but if this was any other situation, where a person has been demanding payment for 8 year and has not been paid, then we would find it unacceptable no? They have the right to go bankrupt, no arguments here, but I don't think it would be ethically acceptable to simply wind it down and set a new FA up without the responsibilities of the old one, regardless of whether that is allowed in law or not.
Laws and ethics are not the same.
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Absolute :bs:
Show me where FIFA does give federation money for such a purpose? That is something I can learn. Cause Tim Kee say FIFA turn them down twice. Then he (Tim Kee) rachet up ah scene to get the money. So I will like to see the precedent for what you state there. Tim Kee even say that FIFA tell them they do not want people to think that they can come to FIFA for money in that manner.
They give money to federations, but for football development.
Something wrong with your comprehension or what? I said nothing about "purpose" or anything like that, you need to read closer... and for understanding. What you continue to miss, and I'm beginning to think it's purposely now, is that the relationship between FIFA and the Confederations and local Associations is akin to the franchise model. Except that FIFA provides more by way of funding than supplies, infrastructure etc. FIFA promised to send intermittent payments earmarked for "development"... that flow of funds was interrupted. The TTFA's reliance on that promise was both reasonable and justifiable. You don't have to take my word for it, but just watch and see. The players, despite all the gun talk from Sancho will not be taking the TTFA to court over this. It is a losing case. You don't have to agree with me.
Bakes you still talking ass though. I understand what you are saying. What I am telling you though is that you are reaching, over-reaching with your argument.
You said "Therefore if this is legitimately a source of funds that the local Association could bank on under typical circumstances, then that reliance is justified."
But then wrote this "Except that FIFA provides more by way of funding than supplies, infrastructure etc. FIFA promised to send intermittent payments earmarked for "development"... that flow of funds was interrupted. The TTFA's reliance on that promise was both reasonable and justifiable. "
So which is it?
From what I know and from what Tim Kee said (that you are PURPOSEFULLY ignoring and has not address) FIFA does not give money for that purpose you as alluding to. To say that you are not talking about purpose is moving the goalpost. You are not making any sense, then what are you addressing? That FIFA gives money to federations?
The issue is, can the federation use the money that FIFA give them to pay the players. This is what (for me anyways) a judge will want to know. When FIFA allocated funds they are normally disburse to specific areas and not general funds.
AGAIN, FIFA said that they DO NOT give money for such a purpose. Listen again from 2 minute mark to the 4 minute mark
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I does try my best not to insult you... but you's a real f**king idiot when yuh ready inno.
Bakes you still talking ass though. I understand what you are saying. What I am telling you though is that you are reaching, over-reaching with your argument.
The orgininal question was more or less could the TTFA prevail if the players took them to court over the delayed payments. My response was "absolutely", I then sought to give a legal basis as to why they would prevail. You then start arguing with me over the basis I provided, now you telling me I "overreaching" with my argument. What is your legal expertise that you could tell me I'm overreaching... if what I'm doing is providing a legal explanation of how the TTFA could prevail?
You said "Therefore if this is legitimately a source of funds that the local Association could bank on under typical circumstances, then that reliance is justified."
But then wrote this "Except that FIFA provides more by way of funding than supplies, infrastructure etc. FIFA promised to send intermittent payments earmarked for "development"... that flow of funds was interrupted. The TTFA's reliance on that promise was both reasonable and justifiable. "
So which is it?
Which is what? There is nothing inconsistent between the two statements fella.
From what I know and from what Tim Kee said (that you are PURPOSEFULLY ignoring and has not address) FIFA does not give money for that purpose you as alluding to. To say that you are not talking about purpose is moving the goalpost. You are not making any sense, then what are you addressing? That FIFA gives money to federations?
Elan, I addressed that long time ago... in this very thread. I explicitly said that FIFA didn't want to pay off the debt lest they set a ball in motion with other Federations that they find hard to stop in the end. So the arrangement was made that the money would be funneled thru the developmental pool. How you could now come and accuse me of "PURPOSEFULLY" ignoring that? What I'm trying to tell you is that none of that would matter in court... what the money was intended for. It wouldn't matter because whether legitimate development funds, or loan repayment... the money got held up. Period. Is not like it got held up because it was going to the players. And you accusing me of not making sense?
The issue is, can the federation use the money that FIFA give them to pay the players. This is what (for me anyways) a judge will want to know. When FIFA allocated funds they are normally disburse to specific areas and not general funds.
AGAIN, FIFA said that they DO NOT give money for such a purpose. Listen again from 2 minute mark to the 4 minute mark
Again... you don't have to like my answer, you don't have to accept it. I'm telling you that none of what you're arguing matters. FIFA placed no restriction on how the money can be used. Generally, which is to say with any other Federation, the intended purpose is for the funds to be used towards the development of the local game, but if the local Federation puts it to some other use FIFA doesn't care... you just can't come back asking for more "development" money. In this case it was an under the table deal that this is how the money would be funneled towards the debt. All of that aside, all a court would be concerned with is whether the TTFA can pay as agreed. The answer being "no", so now the agreement has been breached by the delay in paying. Next question is whether the TTFA is responsible for the breach. I'm telling you that it's unlikely that they'll be held responsible for the breach, since it resulted from circumstances beyond their control. At any rate the only remedies available to the players is full, immediate payment, which is impossible, or allowing the TTFA more time to make good on the payments. That is what any court will rule under these circumstances. This is why I said Sancho and them would only be wasting money taking the TTFA to court.
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I does try my best not to insult you... but you's a real f**king idiot when yuh ready inno.
Bakes you still talking ass though. I understand what you are saying. What I am telling you though is that you are reaching, over-reaching with your argument.
The orgininal question was more or less could the TTFA prevail if the players took them to court over the delayed payments. My response was "absolutely", I then sought to give a legal basis as to why they would prevail. You then start arguing with me over the basis I provided, now you telling me I "overreaching" with my argument. What is your legal expertise that you could tell me I'm overreaching... if what I'm doing is providing a legal explanation of how the TTFA could prevail?
You said "Therefore if this is legitimately a source of funds that the local Association could bank on under typical circumstances, then that reliance is justified."
But then wrote this "Except that FIFA provides more by way of funding than supplies, infrastructure etc. FIFA promised to send intermittent payments earmarked for "development"... that flow of funds was interrupted. The TTFA's reliance on that promise was both reasonable and justifiable. "
So which is it?
Which is what? There is nothing inconsistent between the two statements fella.
From what I know and from what Tim Kee said (that you are PURPOSEFULLY ignoring and has not address) FIFA does not give money for that purpose you as alluding to. To say that you are not talking about purpose is moving the goalpost. You are not making any sense, then what are you addressing? That FIFA gives money to federations?
Elan, I addressed that long time ago... in this very thread. I explicitly said that FIFA didn't want to pay off the debt lest they set a ball in motion with other Federations that they find hard to stop in the end. So the arrangement was made that the money would be funneled thru the developmental pool. How you could now come and accuse me of "PURPOSEFULLY" ignoring that? What I'm trying to tell you is that none of that would matter in court... what the money was intended for. It wouldn't matter because whether legitimate development funds, or loan repayment... the money got held up. Period. Is not like it got held up because it was going to the players. And you accusing me of not making sense?
The issue is, can the federation use the money that FIFA give them to pay the players. This is what (for me anyways) a judge will want to know. When FIFA allocated funds they are normally disburse to specific areas and not general funds.
AGAIN, FIFA said that they DO NOT give money for such a purpose. Listen again from 2 minute mark to the 4 minute mark
Again... you don't have to like my answer, you don't have to accept it. I'm telling you that none of what you're arguing matters. FIFA placed no restriction on how the money can be used. Generally, which is to say with any other Federation, the intended purpose is for the funds to be used towards the development of the local game, but if the local Federation puts it to some other use FIFA doesn't care... you just can't come back asking for more "development" money. In this case it was an under the table deal that this is how the money would be funneled towards the debt. All of that aside, all a court would be concerned with is whether the TTFA can pay as agreed. The answer being "no", so now the agreement has been breached by the delay in paying. Next question is whether the TTFA is responsible for the breach. I'm telling you that it's unlikely that they'll be held responsible for the breach, since it resulted from circumstances beyond their control. At any rate the only remedies available to the players is full, immediate payment, which is impossible, or allowing the TTFA more time to make good on the payments. That is what any court will rule under these circumstances. This is why I said Sancho and them would only be wasting money taking the TTFA to court.
You cyah insult me, this is ah message board, my emotions and personality not attach to this. Sorry, try someone else who more insecure or emotional. Hard luck dey.
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James Saunders interviews Lasana Liburd (CEO of Wired868) and Shaun Fuentes (TTFA Director of Communications) about the ongoing issue between the 2006 Soca Warriors and the TTFA.
http://www.youtube.com/v/nRn1SZTFQlU
http://www.youtube.com/v/ulfrSNbLHRo
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Fuentes is inherently placed in a compromised position because of his tenure under the previous dispensation. He ought not fight that. He should embrace it. It's an inescapable reality. It rings hollow when he attempts to draw a bright, distinguishing line between the status quo ante and the present brokers ... regardless of how well-intentioned his comments are ...
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Interesting interview - the whole thing seems like a zero-sum situation sadly.
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Good informative video that cuts to the chase without the spinmasters. Thanks Lasana for making the bottom-line so easy to grasp. Thanks Mr Fuentes for highlighting the deficiency in your case.
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That there can't be right. I will try that with my credit card. When they take me to court for outstanding balance. I will let the judge know that I intend to pay when my buddy who is wealthy give me money he owe me.
The key difference that you are not grasping is that every local federation is dependent on FIFA for funding to some level. Some are more independent than others, but FIFA is a legitimate source of funds, per the business model it has established with the Confederations, and then down to the Federation/Association level. Therefore if this is legitimately a source of funds that the local Association could bank on under typical circumstances, then that reliance is justified. You could try to mock my answer all you want, but one of us is right in what he's saying, and it's not you.
Absolute :bs:
Show me where FIFA does give federation money for such a purpose? That is something I can learn. Cause Tim Kee say FIFA turn them down twice. Then he (Tim Kee) rachet up ah scene to get the money. So I will like to see the precedent for what you state there. Tim Kee even say that FIFA tell them they do not want people to think that they can come to FIFA for money in that manner.
They give money to federations, but for football development.
Maybe that is something I can learn too. By the way, did Tiny Tim explain the missing funds earmarked for Haiti to FIFA? I don't recall FIFA lifting that sanction.
Not because you changed your name people will forget what happened before you changed your name or that they will see you in a different light. But back to FIFA's financial assistance to members. It states very clearly: The funds are to be invested first and foremost in the development of football and to enable FIFA member associations to take part in FIFA competitions. They are to be used in accordance with the FAP regulations. Member associations can also use this bonus as additional funding for existing or future Goal projects.
The FAP is designed to motivate and empower the associations and confederations to organise development programmes that meet their needs and strengthen football and its administration in the long term. FAP funds, including bonus payments, are audited annually.
Paying off your debts are not Goal projects. So, Latas, you have no money to get, partner.
Nowhere, in that statement does it say anything about using the funds to pay on a debt you or anyone, formerly or currently, affiliated with your organization owes to football players associated with your federation. There are no ifs, ands, or buts, here. Since, the Federation does not have good accounting practices, how is Tiny Tim going to explain to the FIFA auditors the payment of that money to fulfill a debt that has nothing to do with the development of football ?.
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From Newsday article;
“The TTFA received a waiver from FIFA to be able to use this fund towards settling these issues with the World Cup players. People need to understand there is ongoing efforts to meet the requirements to pay this off and that is taking away from football in general.”
However, didn't Mr Tim-Kee say that despite a face to face request to Sepp Blatter, his request was denied? He then asked the FIFA lawyer if the money could be routed through CONCACAF.
This is not a waiver from FIFA.
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They asked for FIFA for assistance in paying the debt.
FIFA said no. We can't get into the business of giving money for that.
They then asked what about the stipend we receive from FIFA through Concacaf.
FIFA said by all means. But you can't ask for more if you spend it on dat.
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Good going Lasana. They need to hire you and get rid of Shaun.
De ole Jack Warner regimen need to go.
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Good going Lasana. They need to hire you and get rid of Shaun.
De ole Jack Warner regimen need to go.
:beermug:
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2006 Warriors' to execute a final 14 day demand for payment against the TTFA.
This is to announce that we have have instructed our legal team to execute a final 14 day Demand for Payment against the TTFA. This may come as a surprise to many when one considers that in May last year the TTFA announced that a settlement agreement was reached.
While an agreement was in truth reached and we have received one tranche of the settlement, the second tranche which became due in September last was not paid in full. Over the past few months we have been desperately trying to get assurances from the TTFA if they intend to honour the said agreement and all we received were vague and intangible promises.
The TTFA is in clear breach of the CONSENT ORDER authorised by the Trinidad and Tobago High Court and the Honourable Judge Devindra Rampersad. It is a blatant disregard to the courts considering the fact that the TTFA were the ones who AGREED to the terms of the settlement agreement.
This case dates back to 2006 and we are sure that most would agree that we have been ultra patient. The TTFA received over 200 million dollars from its qualification and participation at the 2006 World Cup yet the players who paid a huge part in generating those funds are yet to be paid. We are in the year 2014, and with a another World Cup mere weeks away this situation remains unresolved.
Without question this is surely one the the greatest injustices ever suffered by a sporting team in Caribbean sporting history. To put it simply it is just not fair.
We are sad and disappointed that having achieved this country's greatest sporting moment, humiliatingly, we are forced to almost beg that we be paid the terms of our contract. This is distressing and our families have suffered immeasurably through this.
The passionate football fans whose support enabled us to scale Everest have suffered through this. When will it end? We find it hard to understand why we have been treated with such disdain. We have received support from the CONCACAF President Jeffrey Webb and that was refreshing. He is clearly a players President who has indicated that he will like nothing better than for this issue to be rectified sooner rather than later.
On the expiration of the 14 days we have afforded, if there is no payment or tangible and honourable attempts to facilitate settlement of this debt, the winding up of The Trinidad and Tobago Football federation will commence immediately.
Sincerely
13 members of the 2006 World Cup squad.
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Mr Kee what is happening here :cursing: :cursing: :cursing: :cursing:
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Well... if is here we reach, so be it. If it had to come to this, I would have rather it happen back in 08.
If the TTFA is wound down, the government should launch a full investigation. Tax payer dollars went into funding the organization, so tax payers should get an accounting.
btw the man last name is Tim-Kee
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Here we are 8 years later ...
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Without question this is surely one the the greatest injustices ever suffered by a sporting team in Caribbean sporting history. To put it simply it is just not fair.
This seems a bit of a stretch.
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So does that mean Argentina/Iran games off. What does "wind up" really mean? Is that why Cyrus off to Vietnam., and players won't be available to Hart(according to Insider- sometimes he does say truthful things, no really :D). Isn't the games deal between AFF and TTFA. So if no TTFA, or no players..no game right ? Unless "wind-up" mean,Maximus Dan singing soca at TTFA offices, and the protest take the form of ah blocko. - wait, blocko still exist ?
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Without question this is surely one the the greatest injustices ever suffered by a sporting team in Caribbean sporting history. To put it simply it is just not fair.
This seems a bit of a stretch.
name a greater injustice to a Caribbean sporting team then... ::)
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Without question this is surely one the the greatest injustices ever suffered by a sporting team in Caribbean sporting history. To put it simply it is just not fair.
This seems a bit of a stretch.
name a greater injustice to a Caribbean sporting team then... ::)
Haiti v T&T that resulted in 3 refs being banned for life?
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Without question this is surely one the the greatest injustices ever suffered by a sporting team in Caribbean sporting history. To put it simply it is just not fair.
This seems a bit of a stretch.
Why is it a stretch? It said "one of" not "the". It is a correct position I believe.
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Dat firetrucking vampire!!!! 8 firetrucking years!!!!...... :cursing: :bs: :frustrated: :banginghead:
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Why is it a stretch? It said "one of" not "the". It is a correct position I believe.
It's hardly an "injustice"... the players are in no worse shape than they would have been if Jack didn't make the promise to them. He promised them bonus money, then renegged. Hiring a man to do a job for you... he does that in reliance on that promise... then you don't pay him (like Shabazz and the other local coaches)... that's more of an injustice.
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It's an injustice because in its fullness it is unjust. Point blank.
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allyuh rehashing the bachanal...Can't change those travesties, injustices, negative bad (or however serious or not as serious terms one want to use)events...what does it mean as our next events are concerned ? Will the TTFA be disbanded ? what happens to coach in the employ of such? What is the extent of the "wind down" or "wind up" or whatever ? Will the games be on ? Who will pay the staff ? Will SH have a job ? Will Central hire him as coach ?
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Give me something nah FS. Even if it's just an interpretation of the term "wind up" as understood by you. or are you to close to the Law, the mechanics as well as the passengers, not wanting to set a panic by informing us passengers we might have to get off and scrap this possible defective bus we on.Are we going downhill fast without brakes ? or will cross that bridge when we mash ?
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It's an injustice because in its fullness it is unjust. Point blank.
Appending "point blank" to your opinion doesn't make it any more persuasive. The players did nothing in reliance on the promise... but really, no need to prolong the debate. Trinis are a people prone to emotional hyperbole and this instance is no different.
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It's an injustice because in its fullness it is unjust. Point blank.
Appending "point blank" to your opinion doesn't make it any more persuasive. The players did nothing in reliance on the promise... but really, no need to prolong the debate. Trinis are a people prone to emotional hyperbole and this instance is no different.
Why do you find reliance to be the controlling element?
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It's an injustice because in its fullness it is unjust. Point blank.
Appending "point blank" to your opinion doesn't make it any more persuasive. The players did nothing in reliance on the promise... but really, no need to prolong the debate. Trinis are a people prone to emotional hyperbole and this instance is no different.
As oppose to what other people? The litigious State of the USA who sue for being burned by a cup of hot coffee.
Or and by the way didn't you just do the same thing you are accusing "Trinis" of.
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Why do you find reliance to be the controlling element?
I prolonging the sidetrack long enough only to respond to yuh question, because ultimately the fellas deserve to get paid, I just disagree with the characterization. Reliance, particularly detrimental reliance in this case, would be the difference between having a grievance and being treated unjustly. It's like the difference between suffering a loss, and losing out on an opportunity. Arguably the players are at a net loss as a result of 7-8 years of dogged, contentious litigation, but more objectively the broken promise denied them an opportunity to profit from their participation in the Cup as they could have.
As oppose to what other people? The litigious State of the USA who sue for being burned by a cup of hot coffee.
Or and by the way didn't you just do the same thing you are accusing "Trinis" of.
1. If you knew the truth behind that "Hot Coffee" case yuh wouldn't mention it as an example of people being "litigious". Had that poor lady not prevailed, then THAT would have been an injustice. If yuh doh want to watch all 12 minutes then just watch around 5:15 and educate yuhself.
https://www.youtube.com/v/pCkL9UlmCOE
2. Epimenides Paradox... there is nothing emotional or hyperbolic about the comments I've made in this thread, but if you feel otherwise then take that as you will.
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TTFA dusts off Warrior threats; vows not to chase Warner money
By Lasana Liburd (Wired868)
The Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) vowed today to “continue uninterrupted” in the face of potential bankruptcy proceedings by one of its major creditors, the 2006 World Cup players.
The TTFA revealed, in a press release today, that it owes the “Soca Warriors” US$1.9 million from a total payment of US$3.1 million. However, rather than say when the debt might be paid, the local football body instead warned the Chaconia Silver medal winners that it would: “not be intimidated by the threats and personal attacks that have defined the approach some of the 2006 players have taken over the past several months.”
Most tellingly, the release—which was not signed by either the football president Raymond Tim Kee, who is also the Port of Spain Mayor, or general secretary Sheldon Phillips—confirmed what many football fans feared; the TTFA has no intention of attempting to recover over $100 million in lost revenue that apparently was never relayed to the football body by its former special advisor Jack Warner.
“The TTFA would also like to address other erroneous assertions attributed to the 2006 player case,” stated the release, “namely the narrative that our organization has the ability to target past leaders and advisors of the former TTFF to recoup $100 million in funds accumulated during the 2006 World Cup campaign.
“Firstly, even if the TTFA was inclined to engage in an expensive and resource-draining legal battle to recover any amount of funds from the 2006 world cup campaign, the statute of limitations to engage in such an endeavor expired some time ago.”
Although the release was unsigned, it listed figures owed to the Warriors—which was previously kept silent out of consideration for the safety of the players—without identifying it as US currency, which could mean that Phillips, an American citizen with a legal background, may be its author.
Phillips, if he indeed authored the release, did not say why he described spending even a few million on legal fees with the intention of recouping well in excess of $100 as “resource-draining.” And he did not explain or give a date for the supposed expiration of the statute of limitation in this case.
Warner, an employee of the TTFA, was ordered by the football body to produce all relevant documentation related to 2006 World Cup revenue by 14 February 2012 so it could be relayed to the High Court. He refused; and Justice Devindra Rampersad immediately advised the TTFA to sue Warner.
The TTFA’s realisation that something untoward might have occurred with its finances therefore, arguably, happened two years ago, which is well within the four-year period for statute of limitations in such cases. Even if the statute of limitation had expired but a TTFA audit found new evidence of wrongdoing, the football body would have the option of appealing to a Judge to hear the case.
In short, the football body did not offer convincing evidence as to why it does not chase millions in missing revenue nor where it intends to find the money from to pay creditors.
But Tim Kee and Phillips have now admitted for the first time that, despite their boasts of a new era of transparency and accountability, they have no intention of righting the wrong done to the local game during Tim Kee’s tenure as vice-president of the Warner-led Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF).
The TTFA release went on to list its various programs to suggest that football was in good hands. Several of their claims were either exaggerated, incorrect or impossible to gauge since they had not yet occurred.
Tim Kee and Phillips claimed, for instance, that, under their watch, the Soca Warriors enjoyed “the most amount of international football played since the build up to the 2006 World Cup.”
In fact, the Warriors played 14 matches in 2013; which was the identical number of outings they made in 2012, despite being virtually bankrupt and suffering from an acrimonious relationship with Sport Minister Anil Roberts. And, in 2008, the Warriors played 28 times.
The release further pointed out that the TTFA had included Central FC managing director Brent Sancho in its women’s football program, Shaka Hislop on its Independent Football Reform Commission and David Atiba Charles in its coordination of its upcoming charter to Argentina.
It is uncertain whether this meant to be a pat on its back by the TTFA or a suggestion that the World Cup players should be more grateful.
In January, Tim Kee suggested that he had to option to cheat the World Cup players of their due altogether by closing down the football body and starting a new one. It brought a sharp rebuke at the time from Sancho.
The TTFA did not repeat that threat in its release today. But, in its heading “Football Uninterrupted”, Tim Kee and Phillips made it clear that they are not worried by anything the World Cup players might do.
Editor’s Note: Click HERE to read TTFA release in its entirety; or HERE to read the initial statement from the 2006 World Cup players.
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Why do you find reliance to be the controlling element?
I prolonging the sidetrack long enough only to respond to yuh question, because ultimately the fellas deserve to get paid, I just disagree with the characterization. Reliance, particularly detrimental reliance in this case, would be the difference between having a grievance and being treated unjustly. It's like the difference between suffering a loss, and losing out on an opportunity. Arguably the players are at a net loss as a result of 7-8 years of dogged, contentious litigation, but more objectively the broken promise denied them an opportunity to profit from their participation in the Cup as they could have.
As oppose to what other people? The litigious State of the USA who sue for being burned by a cup of hot coffee.
Or and by the way didn't you just do the same thing you are accusing "Trinis" of.
1. If you knew the truth behind that "Hot Coffee" case yuh wouldn't mention it as an example of people being "litigious". Had that poor lady not prevailed, then THAT would have been an injustice. If yuh doh want to watch all 12 minutes then just watch around 5:15 and educate yuhself.
https://www.youtube.com/v/pCkL9UlmCOE
2. Epimenides Paradox... there is nothing emotional or hyperbolic about the comments I've made in this thread, but if you feel otherwise then take that as you will.
So then, how do you know that the statement you pick out from an entire release was an emotional hyperbole? I use the hot coffee reference just of the bat, but I forgot in this law class we have to be specific.
Should have referenced this case (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/25/AR2007062500443.html)instead your honor. Sustained or over-ruled?
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Are press releases normally signed? Hmmmmmm.
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Tim Kee might have to poke at a couple skeletons if he went after JW. >:(
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Football uninterrupted despite Soca Warriors threat.
T&T Guardian Reports.
The recent communication from the 2006 World Cup players to “wind up” the TTFA, has been noted by the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association but the TTFA is now assuring the public that their operations will continue uninterrupted.
The TTFA sent out a press statement last evening which indicated: ”The TTFA also wishes to advise that over $10 million dollars has been given to the players since the new TTFA administration reached settlement in June 2013. $1.2 million of the scheduled $3.1 million payment was made and the remaining balance of $1.9 million is scheduled to come from development funds.
“We have the assurance of FIFA and CONCACAF that all our obligations will be met in the interest of football. The TTFA is also engaging partnerships with FIFA, CONCACAF, the Ministry of Sport, Ministry of Tourism and our corporate partners to move football forward in Trinidad and Tobago.
“Through such collaborations, Trinidad and Tobago can expect to see the creation of a National Training Academy, an expanded and exciting National Super League, increased amount of development programs for coaches, referees and players, and the emergence of an unprecedented merchandise and licensing program.
“The Trinidad and Tobago Football Association is also poised to present one of the most robust and substantive periods of international football in Trinidad and Tobago history following a 2013 which saw the most amount of international football played since the build up to the 2006 World Cup.
“In May, the Senior Men’s National Team will begin preparations for their matches against Argentina and Iran, while our Senior Women’s National Team will begin their Campaign To Canada 2015 with proposed matches against Venezuela in June and the hosting of the CFU Championship in August.
“On the youth side, the U-15 Girls and U-17 Boys national pool is currently working towards final team selection for the CONCACAF U-15 Championship in August and CFU U-17 Tournament in late July, respectively. The Men’s U-20 team will soon be assembled for the CFU Championship in September which will be hosted in T&T.
The 13 players involved in the bonus agreement are: David Atiba Charles, Cornell Glen, Cyd Gray, Shaka Hislop, Kelvin Jack, Avery John, Stern John, Kenwyne Jones, Collin Samuel, Brent Sancho, Aurtis Whitley, Evans Wise and Anthony Wolfe.
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TTFA: Players will be paid.
T&T Express Reports.
The Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) has stated that it has already paid $10 million to members of the 2006 World Cup team, and that an outstanding final $1.9 million settlement will come from development funds issued from FIFA and CONCACAF, the international bodies which govern football in this region.
The financially-challenged TTFA was responding to threats on Friday by the former World Cup footballers to “wind up” the local football body.
Several years ago, the players initially took court action against the local Association, arguing that they were promised a percentage of 2006 World Cup monies by former TTFA special adviser Jack Warner.
However, on the appointment of Raymond Tim Kee as new TTFA president, the parties reached an out of court settlement last year, which the players now argued has been breached.
The TTFA stated by a press release yesterday that it is making every effort to conclude the matter soon.
“The TTFA also wishes to advise that over $10 million dollars has been given to the players since the new TTFA administration reached settlement in June 2013,” the release stated.
It said that $1.2 million of the scheduled $3.1 million payment was made and the remaining balance of $1.9 million is scheduled to come from development funds.”
“We have the assurance of FIFA and CONCACAF that all our obligations will be met in the interest of football.
“The TTFA is also engaging partnerships with FIFA, CONCACAF, the Ministry of Sport, Ministry of Tourism and our corporate partners to move football forward in Trinidad and Tobago,” the TTFA release added.
The TTFA also termed as “erroneous” assertions that it has the ability to target past leaders and advisers of the former TTFF to recoup $100 million in funds accumulated during the 2006 World Cup campaign.
“Firstly, even if the TTFA was inclined to engage in an expensive and resource- draining legal battle to recover any amount of funds from the 2006 World Cup campaign, the statute of limitations to engage in such an endeavor expired some time ago.
Secondly, between 2007 and 2012, international football in Trinidad and Tobago was adversely affected, in large part, due to the protracted legal battle that took place between the former TTFF and the 2006 players.
The TTFA is of the firm belief that it would not be in the best interest of Trinidad and Tobago football to engage in another protracted legal struggle,” the relase said.
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Football uninterrupted despite Soca Warriors threat.
T&T Guardian Reports.
The recent communication from the 2006 World Cup players to “wind up” the TTFA, has been noted by the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association but the TTFA is now assuring the public that their operations will continue uninterrupted.
The TTFA sent out a press statement last evening which indicated: ”The TTFA also wishes to advise that over $10 million dollars has been given to the players since the new TTFA administration reached settlement in June 2013. $1.2 million of the scheduled $3.1 million payment was made and the remaining balance of $1.9 million is scheduled to come from development funds.
“We have the assurance of FIFA and CONCACAF that all our obligations will be met in the interest of football. The TTFA is also engaging partnerships with FIFA, CONCACAF, the Ministry of Sport, Ministry of Tourism and our corporate partners to move football forward in Trinidad and Tobago.
“Through such collaborations, Trinidad and Tobago can expect to see the creation of a National Training Academy, an expanded and exciting National Super League, increased amount of development programs for coaches, referees and players, and the emergence of an unprecedented merchandise and licensing program.
“The Trinidad and Tobago Football Association is also poised to present one of the most robust and substantive periods of international football in Trinidad and Tobago history following a 2013 which saw the most amount of international football played since the build up to the 2006 World Cup.
“In May, the Senior Men’s National Team will begin preparations for their matches against Argentina and Iran, while our Senior Women’s National Team will begin their Campaign To Canada 2015 with proposed matches against Venezuela in June and the hosting of the CFU Championship in August.
“On the youth side, the U-15 Girls and U-17 Boys national pool is currently working towards final team selection for the CONCACAF U-15 Championship in August and CFU U-17 Tournament in late July, respectively. The Men’s U-20 team will soon be assembled for the CFU Championship in September which will be hosted in T&T.
The 13 players involved in the bonus agreement are: David Atiba Charles, Cornell Glen, Cyd Gray, Shaka Hislop, Kelvin Jack, Avery John, Stern John, Kenwyne Jones, Collin Samuel, Brent Sancho, Aurtis Whitley, Evans Wise and Anthony Wolfe.
This report clears up a lot, if its true, I applaud Tim Kee for this.
These players acting real greedy here.
They need to wait a little or humble themselves.
They have a remaining balance of $1.9 million, I doubt they going and waste more court money for that.
My reply was base on if this story is true.
Good job by the TTFA.
On the other hand though, they should go after Jack for some funds or at least the Marvin Lee Stadium.
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Seems like the article is referring to both TT and US currency loosely.
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TTFA dusts off Warrior threats; vows not to chase Warner money
By Lasana Liburd (Wired868)
Although the release was unsigned, it listed figures owed to the Warriors—which was previously kept silent out of consideration for the safety of the players—without identifying it as US currency, which could mean that Phillips, an American citizen with a legal background, may be its author.
This statement makes no sense whatsoever.
Phillips, if he indeed authored the release, did not say why he described spending even a few million on legal fees with the intention of recouping well in excess of $100 as “resource-draining.”
Lasana schupid or what? Where they supposed to get "a few million" to spend on legal fees when they barely solvent as is? He really needs somebody to explain that to him? It seems cost-effective to try and recoup the money (assuming some degree of certainty that they'd prevail), but Lasana like he confusing the two... cost-effectiveness doesn't disprove the fact that any prolonged legal battle would be "resource-draining."
The TTFA’s realisation that something untoward might have occurred with its finances therefore, arguably, happened two years ago, which is well within the four-year period for statute of limitations in such cases. Even if the statute of limitation had expired but a TTFA audit found new evidence of wrongdoing, the football body would have the option of appealing to a Judge to hear the case.
The statute of limitations starts running at the occurrence of the wrongdoing that the TTFA would be complaining about... in other words, when Jack embezzled the money. That would have been in 2006-2007. If the statute of limitations on fraud is 4 years then the window to sue would have expired in 2011. An exception to that would be if the fraud could NOT have been discovered until after the statute ran, despite the best efforts of the TTFA. That's an argument they could make to a court, yes... but no guarantee that they'd prevail. It may even prove pyrrhic if the litigation drags on. My personal inclination is for them to sue, but there is certainly good reason to hesitate before rushing down that path.
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Football uninterrupted despite Soca Warriors threat.
T&T Guardian Reports.
The recent communication from the 2006 World Cup players to “wind up” the TTFA, has been noted by the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association but the TTFA is now assuring the public that their operations will continue uninterrupted.
The TTFA sent out a press statement last evening which indicated: ”The TTFA also wishes to advise that over $10 million dollars has been given to the players since the new TTFA administration reached settlement in June 2013. $1.2 million of the scheduled $3.1 million payment was made and the remaining balance of $1.9 million is scheduled to come from development funds.
“We have the assurance of FIFA and CONCACAF that all our obligations will be met in the interest of football. The TTFA is also engaging partnerships with FIFA, CONCACAF, the Ministry of Sport, Ministry of Tourism and our corporate partners to move football forward in Trinidad and Tobago.
“Through such collaborations, Trinidad and Tobago can expect to see the creation of a National Training Academy, an expanded and exciting National Super League, increased amount of development programs for coaches, referees and players, and the emergence of an unprecedented merchandise and licensing program.
“The Trinidad and Tobago Football Association is also poised to present one of the most robust and substantive periods of international football in Trinidad and Tobago history following a 2013 which saw the most amount of international football played since the build up to the 2006 World Cup.
“In May, the Senior Men’s National Team will begin preparations for their matches against Argentina and Iran, while our Senior Women’s National Team will begin their Campaign To Canada 2015 with proposed matches against Venezuela in June and the hosting of the CFU Championship in August.
“On the youth side, the U-15 Girls and U-17 Boys national pool is currently working towards final team selection for the CONCACAF U-15 Championship in August and CFU U-17 Tournament in late July, respectively. The Men’s U-20 team will soon be assembled for the CFU Championship in September which will be hosted in T&T.
The 13 players involved in the bonus agreement are: David Atiba Charles, Cornell Glen, Cyd Gray, Shaka Hislop, Kelvin Jack, Avery John, Stern John, Kenwyne Jones, Collin Samuel, Brent Sancho, Aurtis Whitley, Evans Wise and Anthony Wolfe.
This report clears up a lot, if its true, I applaud Tim Kee for this.
These players acting real greedy here.
They need to wait a little or humble themselves.
They have a remaining balance of $1.9 million, I doubt they going and waste more court money for that.
My reply was base on if this story is true.
Good job by the TTFA.
On the other hand though, they should go after Jack for some funds or at least the Marvin Lee Stadium.
The TTFA sent out a press statement last evening which indicated: ”The TTFA also wishes to advise that over $10 million dollars has been given to the players since the new TTFA administration reached settlement in June 2013. $1.2 million of the scheduled $3.1 million payment was made and the remaining balance of $1.9 million is scheduled to come from development funds.
Greedy? Wasn't that the same claim that Warner made? A court settlement was made on the basis (presumably) that the players would settle for less than they felt was actually owed. Of the (presumably) lesser amount of US$3.1 million, only US$1.2 million has been paid. That's less than 50%. The second tranche was due in January and only part of that was paid. There has been no formal offer of a new payment date.
So, taking the emotional factor of the forthcoming national games out of the picture (as this is purely a legal matter) would you personally accept the following if you were owed money?
After a 7 year court case which you won in two separate courts and you settled for a lower amount than you owed, would you be happy that the agreement was broken with no indication of when it would recommence?
After being accused of impatience when the correct payment wasn't made and you had the audacity to complain, you then wait a further four months without any response before you take further steps, and, again are criticised.
When the dispute is concerning broken promises over bonuses and then further promises are broken, why would you be patient any longer?
To me, the only situation that has changed since this whole case started is that T&T are due to play Argentina and Iran. If we were going to play Bermuda and Guyana, would people be as concerned?
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Nonsense Tim Kee: Warriors’ attorney rubbishes TTFA claims about Warner
By Lasana Liburd (Wired868)
English attorney Michael Townley has rubbished claims by the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) that it cannot recover millions of missing football money due to a statute of limitations or the expense of such a case.
The TTFA, which is headed by Port of Spain Mayor Raymond Tim Kee, claimed yesterday that it could not sue its former special advisor Jack Warner for allegedly failing to account for over $180 million—millions of which were from taxpayers—because the matter was statute barred as well as too expensive to pursue.
“Even if the TTFA was inclined to engage in an expensive and resource-draining legal battle to recover any amount of funds from the 2006 World Cup campaign,” stated the release, “the statute of limitations to engage in such an endeavor expired some time ago.”
Tim Kee, who is contesting the post of PNM treasurer at today’s internal election, served as a vice-president for over a decade under the Warner-led TTFF (which has since reverted to its original title as TTFA) and had to fight off rumours that he was handpicked by the Chaguanas West MP for the TTFA presidency.
Townley, who represented 13 of the country’s 2006 World Cup players for the past eight years, suggested that Tim Kee was trying to fool the people of Trinidad and Tobago.
“There is no statute of limitations on a claim on breach of trust which is what Warner has (allegedly) done,” Townley told Wired868. “Warner was a quasi-trustee for the TTFA and he was supposedly taking their money and putting into his own accounts...
“The statute applies to cases under contract law or tort and negligence. If you take someone’s money and don’t give it back, you cannot just laugh and walk away a free man after four years.
“The TTFF claim is breach of trust/misfeasance and breach of duty by a shadow Director. These claims are not subject to time limits.”
Townley was unimpressed by the TTFA’s reason for not attempting to recover the missing income and the attempt to draw parallels between the players’ legal battle against the football body and any future action by Tim Kee’s administration against Warner.
“Between 2007 and 2012, international football in Trinidad and Tobago was adversely affected, in large part, to the protracted legal battle that took place between the former TTFF and the 2006 players,” stated the unsigned release, which is believed to have been penned by general secretary Sheldon Phillips. “The TTFA is of the firm belief that it would not be in the best interest in Trinidad and Tobago football to engage in another protracted legal struggle.”
Townley retorted that the 2006 World Cup bonus dispute was only long and expensive for the TTFA because it was on the wrong side of the law.
“For them to say, it is too costly and time consuming is nonsense,” said Townley. “It was only long and expensive because there was no merit to the defence of their action and because they used every trick they could think of. This is very different.”
From day one, Tim Kee, according to Townley, appeared very reluctant to go after Warner. The attorney said he made the TTFA president aware of documentations which allegedly showed that millions were systematically transferred from the football body to companies owed by the former FIFA vice-president.
“There was one transaction of $14 million from a Government cheque that went into the TTFA,” said Townley. “And, on the same day, the whole lot was transferred to a Warner company.
“When this management came in, I sent the spreadsheet that involved everything with Warner. The evidence was stark. (But) they never asked or showed any interest in going after Warner.”
Last year, when Wired868 asked Tim Kee whether he planned to recover money siphoned from football, he suggested that the TTFA would wait to see what CONCACAF investigators dug up rather than conduct its own probe.
“The TTFF is a part of CONCACAF,” Tim Kee said then, “and in their investigating of all the goings-on, I believe that (an) arm will be extended to the TTFF.”
But the Tim Kee-led TTFA made no attempt to initiate legal proceedings when ex-Barbados AG Sir David Simmons revealed that Warner had used football funds to enrich the CONCACAF Centre of Excellence, which was built on his land.
“Warner represented to FIFA that funds would be used to support development but never told FIFA that Centre would be situated on land owned by his companies,” stated Simmons, in the CONCACAF Integrity Report. “There is no evidence that Warner or anyone else ever disclosed to the CONCACAF executive committee or congress that lands on which the Centre was built was owned by his companies.”
The TTFF, under former president Oliver Camps, allowed Warner to use $8.9 million (US$1,386,396) of its allocated FIFA GOAL money for the construction of the Marvin Lee Stadium and a Futsal hall.
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(http://premium.wpmudev.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/smiley-big.jpg)
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TTFA dusts off Warrior threats; vows not to chase Warner money
By Lasana Liburd (Wired868)
Although the release was unsigned, it listed figures owed to the Warriors—which was previously kept silent out of consideration for the safety of the players—without identifying it as US currency, which could mean that Phillips, an American citizen with a legal background, may be its author.
This statement makes no sense whatsoever.
Really? I understood it just fine. To say it makes no sense is one thing ... to disagree with it is another.
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Nonsense Tim Kee: Warriors’ attorney rubbishes TTFA claims about Warner
By Lasana Liburd (Wired868)
English attorney Michael Townley has rubbished claims by the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) that it cannot recover millions of missing football money due to a statute of limitations or the expense of such a case.
The TTFA, which is headed by Port of Spain Mayor Raymond Tim Kee, claimed yesterday that it could not sue its former special advisor Jack Warner for allegedly failing to account for over $180 million—millions of which were from taxpayers—because the matter was statute barred as well as too expensive to pursue.
“Even if the TTFA was inclined to engage in an expensive and resource-draining legal battle to recover any amount of funds from the 2006 World Cup campaign,” stated the release, “the statute of limitations to engage in such an endeavor expired some time ago.”
Tim Kee, who is contesting the post of PNM treasurer at today’s internal election, served as a vice-president for over a decade under the Warner-led TTFF (which has since reverted to its original title as TTFA) and had to fight off rumours that he was handpicked by the Chaguanas West MP for the TTFA presidency.
Townley, who represented 13 of the country’s 2006 World Cup players for the past eight years, suggested that Tim Kee was trying to fool the people of Trinidad and Tobago.
“There is no statute of limitations on a claim on breach of trust which is what Warner has (allegedly) done,” Townley told Wired868. “Warner was a quasi-trustee for the TTFA and he was supposedly taking their money and putting into his own accounts...
“The statute applies to cases under contract law or tort and negligence. If you take someone’s money and don’t give it back, you cannot just laugh and walk away a free man after four years.
“The TTFF claim is breach of trust/misfeasance and breach of duty by a shadow Director. These claims are not subject to time limits.”
Read More (http://wired868.com/2014/05/18/nonsense-tim-kee-warriors-attorney-rubbishes-ttfa-claims-about-warner/)
So Bakes, Townley talkin chupidness? Doh focus on Lasana writing eh, just what Townley say.
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Really? I understood it just fine. To say it makes no sense is one thing ... to disagree with it is another.
How does the failure to identify the money as US currency suggest that Phillips "an American citizen with a legal background" may be the author?
So Bakes, Townley talkin chupidness? Doh focus on Lasana writing eh, just what Townley say.
Why yuh doh ask him fuh yuhself?
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TTFA president Raymond Tim Kee says the legal threats that his association has been receiving from the 13 World Cup players is a joke.
The players from 2006 are unhappy that they haven't received the rest of their bonus payments which amounts to approximately two million US dollars.
As such, they want to wind up the operations of the TTFA but Tim Kee is not budging.
http://www.tv6tnt.com/sevenpm-news/TIM-KEE-ON-WC13-259884161.html
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I really don't understand Mr Tim-Kee's position.
TTFA owe the players US$1.9 million.
TTFA defaulted on the agreed payment schedule and asked for patience.
TTFA has not communicated with the players or offered any revised payment dates (according to Tim -Kee's comments in the above video)
The player's have returned to the legal process to force some kind of response.
Tim-Kee, who's organisation has the responsibility of keeping the players updated with any progress regarding the settlement agreement that they have broke, feels that he is owed the respect and courtesy of communication from the players
Tim-Kee feels the winding up order is a joke.
Tim-Kee has never attempted to work with the players to retrieve the missing millions despite the players providing ample evidence.
I really am not sure why Tim-Kee is taking this stance instead of behaving as he should, which is accepting that TTFA have defaulted and apologising profusely while asking for leniency from the players.
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there is that term again, "wind up". Is it possible that no one knows what it mean. If it means what I think it means, "close down of operations", then who becomes our FIFA representative, would we still be part of Fifa, can we participate in FIFA tournaments, where does staff and player funds come from, will the player bonuses be then written off, is SH out of a job, will the exhibition games be off, does the TT government(ppl) pay the players some more and all will be ok, does FIFA, does Concacaf, is a Pro League then considered illegal, would we be exempt from Concacaf,CFU etc tournaments ? Tallman, FS seem he has a legal obligation not to answer, do you know ?
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Regardless of how Tim Kee feels personally, the use of the word "joke" is injudicious, undiplomatic, and provocative. It's not language that should be employed in his official capacity.
Come Raymond, eyes on the prize. I agree that you are now the primary steward of football in Trinidad & Tobago, but that stewardship automatically includes the 2006 Thirteen.
They have their prerogatives as legal claimants and you have yours in your official capacity. I get hubris, but surely one recognizes that the Thirteen are under no obligation to convey to you their successive step(s). Presumably courtesy exits after faith in the process has evaporated.
The Thirteen's decision to act as they have seems to have stemmed from what they perceive as an exhaustion of good faith. Like it or lump it, the word "joke" perhaps manifests why things are a where there are.
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there is that term again, "wind up". Is it possible that no one knows what it mean.
Tallman, FS seem he has a legal obligation not to answer, do you know ? I have no legal obligation as I'm not part of the case. I can offer my interpretation, but I usually try to refrain from this because I have no legal training and my personal understanding of the situation is generally criticised here.
If it means what I think it means, "close down of operations", then who becomes our FIFA representative, would we still be part of Fifa, usually, FIFA appoint a "normalisation panel" a kind of steering committee, for a couple of years until a new federation can be assembled.
can we participate in FIFA tournaments, once a normalisation panel is in place.
where does staff and player funds come from All contracts will cease and players and staff will become creditors. The normalisation panel will appoint and employ new staff etc. I imagine they will seek government help, sponsorship and support from FIFA and CONCACAF.
will the player bonuses be then written off, I believe that the players could take over any of tthe debts owed to TTFA and pursue them, such as the missing millions, should they choose to do that. I am not sure if the individual directors of TTFA can be pursued.
is SH out of a job, He won't be employed by the TTFA!
will the exhibition games be off, I would imagine that the winding up procedure would involve looking at possible income generating events. The friendly games may be considered as such and I imagine that they will proceed if already funded.
does the TT government(ppl) pay the players some more and all will be ok, does FIFA, does Concacaf, I guess the players won't care where the money comes from. But there would need to be guarantees that the debt will be repaid in full.
is a Pro League then considered illegal, would we be exempt from Concacaf,CFU etc tournaments ?
The Pro League can continue as it is a separate entity like any league such as Eddie Hart. Once there is a normalisation panel, once Pro League is recognised by them as T&T's premier league it shouldn't be a problem, but the uncertainty may mean teams miss out for a year if the timing is wrong.
These are just my layman's opinions and I welcome any corrections or additional insights.
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Regardless of how Tim Kee feels personally, the use of the word "joke" is injudicious, undiplomatic, and provocative. It's not language that should be employed in his official capacity.
Come Raymond, eyes on the prize. I agree that you are now the primary steward of football in Trinidad & Tobago, but that stewardship automatically includes the 2006 Thirteen.
They have their prerogatives as legal claimants and you have yours in your official capacity. I get hubris, but surely one recognizes that the Thirteen are under no obligation to convey to you their successive step(s). Presumably courtesy exits after faith in the process has evaporated.
The Thirteen's decision to act as they have seems to have stemmed from what they perceive as an exhaustion of good faith. Like it or lump it, the word "joke" perhaps manifests why things are a where there are.
You fail to appreciate why the posturing in the press is indeed a "joke". It's an empty threat, whether Sancho appreciates that or not. Tim Kee has every right to respond as he has, given the very personal insults that have attended the comments coming from Sancho. I understand his frustrations with the process but one cannot wring water from stone and a smart fella such as Sancho should recognize that. Running to the press to question the integrity of Tim Kee and Phillips as he did a couple months ago is hardly the sort of "diplomacy" that you're now asking of Tim Kee. Further, it is ridiculous to assert that the TTFA is not acting in good faith when in fact they have paid down all but $1.9 million US of a debt that was not their legal responsibility.
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there is that term again, "wind up". Is it possible that no one knows what it mean. If it means what I think it means, "close down of operations"...
"Winding up" is a term of art used specifically in reference to business entities. More than just "winding down" which means a slow eventual end of operations, "winding up" means taking care to tie all loose ends liquidating assets, paying off creditors and efficiently bring the existence of the entity to an end.
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Regardless of how Tim Kee feels personally, the use of the word "joke" is injudicious, undiplomatic, and provocative. It's not language that should be employed in his official capacity.
Come Raymond, eyes on the prize. I agree that you are now the primary steward of football in Trinidad & Tobago, but that stewardship automatically includes the 2006 Thirteen.
They have their prerogatives as legal claimants and you have yours in your official capacity. I get hubris, but surely one recognizes that the Thirteen are under no obligation to convey to you their successive step(s). Presumably courtesy exits after faith in the process has evaporated.
The Thirteen's decision to act as they have seems to have stemmed from what they perceive as an exhaustion of good faith. Like it or lump it, the word "joke" perhaps manifests why things are a where there are.
You fail to appreciate why the posturing in the press is indeed a "joke". It's an empty threat, whether Sancho appreciates that or not. Tim Kee has every right to respond as he has, given the very personal insults that have attended the comments coming from Sancho. I understand his frustrations with the process but one cannot wring water from stone and a smart fella such as Sancho should recognize that. Running to the press to question the integrity of Tim Kee and Phillips as he did a couple months ago is hardly the sort of "diplomacy" that you're now asking of Tim Kee. Further, it is ridiculous to assert that the TTFA is not acting in good faith when in fact they have paid down all but $1.9 million US of a debt that was not their legal responsibility.
Bakes you real flaky. One minute Trinis apt to emotional hyperbole, but yet Tim Kee response is right. I am yet to see where Sancho disrespected or dealt with Tim Kee in an unprofessional manner. Even if, Tim Kee is the President of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association. Then, there is no US behind that is there.
You still eh address Townley response to yours and Tim Kee assertion that the statute of limitation has expired. Why? Yuh jump in hot and sweaty when the press release drop, but now conveniently omitting your response to Townley's statement. My, my!
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Thanks for the clarifications. Very Uncertain times ahead. At least we have about 2 years to clear things up, before the biggest qualification start again, however, we might be starting from scratch, with new Organization,coach, and team. The interested TT public has but no choice but to wait and see, i guess. Even with all the money we already throw way behind past & present adminstartions, in the name fo development. I should say "throw away", as long as sog is learned at the end of the day. Yet, I'm not certain of that learning process either.
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Bakes you real flaky. One minute Trinis apt to emotional hyperbole, but yet Tim Kee response is right. I am yet to see where Sancho disrespected or dealt with Tim Kee in an unprofessional manner. Even if, Tim Kee is the President of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association. Then, there is no US behind that is there.
You still eh address Townley response to yours and Tim Kee assertion that the statute of limitation has expired. Why? Yuh jump in hot and sweaty when the press release drop, but now conveniently omitting your response to Townley's statement. My, my!
What you fail to realize is that I am not here to comment for your pleasure. Never once did I state or insinuate that "Towley talking chupidness"... Townley experienced enough that I'm sure he feels he has some basis for what he's saying, I have my disagreements. You are not interested in my opinion, you only trying to latch onto whatever opportunity you think presents itself for you to try and prove me wrong. Even if offered you would still continue on some shit talk... so why waste my time and yours?
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Regardless of how Tim Kee feels personally, the use of the word "joke" is injudicious, undiplomatic, and provocative. It's not language that should be employed in his official capacity.
Come Raymond, eyes on the prize. I agree that you are now the primary steward of football in Trinidad & Tobago, but that stewardship automatically includes the 2006 Thirteen.
They have their prerogatives as legal claimants and you have yours in your official capacity. I get hubris, but surely one recognizes that the Thirteen are under no obligation to convey to you their successive step(s). Presumably courtesy exits after faith in the process has evaporated.
The Thirteen's decision to act as they have seems to have stemmed from what they perceive as an exhaustion of good faith. Like it or lump it, the word "joke" perhaps manifests why things are a where there are.
You fail to appreciate why the posturing in the press is indeed a "joke". It's an empty threat, whether Sancho appreciates that or not. Tim Kee has every right to respond as he has, given the very personal insults that have attended the comments coming from Sancho. I understand his frustrations with the process but one cannot wring water from stone and a smart fella such as Sancho should recognize that. Running to the press to question the integrity of Tim Kee and Phillips as he did a couple months ago is hardly the sort of "diplomacy" that you're now asking of Tim Kee. Further, it is ridiculous to assert that the TTFA is not acting in good faith when in fact they have paid down all but $1.9 million US of a debt that was not their legal responsibility.
You set quite a low bar for the conduct of official business. Having the "right", and exercising better judgement are separate matters. Even if I accept that Sancho acted injudiciously, under your reasoning that creates carte blanche for Tim Kee to respond injudiciously. My position is that it does not, and should not. Moreover, for a man glaringly in more than one public office, Tim Kee knows better, ought to know better, and should apply an elevated standard.
RE: you good faith comment
I considered the paid component of the transaction. What you surprisingly fail to appreciate is that good faith has an incremental and accretive element to it. Just because one has partially satisfied an obligation under an agreement does not obviate or remove the expectancy of good faith associated with the unsatisfied portion of the obligation.
That stated, I did not assert that the TTFA has failed to act in good faith. For convenience, I have bolded the relevant commentary.
As to the empty threat/posturing: I think you're being myopic as to the objective.
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Bakes you real flaky. One minute Trinis apt to emotional hyperbole, but yet Tim Kee response is right. I am yet to see where Sancho disrespected or dealt with Tim Kee in an unprofessional manner. Even if, Tim Kee is the President of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association. Then, there is no US behind that is there.
You still eh address Townley response to yours and Tim Kee assertion that the statute of limitation has expired. Why? Yuh jump in hot and sweaty when the press release drop, but now conveniently omitting your response to Townley's statement. My, my!
What you fail to realize is that I am not here to comment for your pleasure. Never once did I state or insinuate that "Towley talking chupidness"... Townley experienced enough that I'm sure he feels he has some basis for what he's saying, I have my disagreements. You are not interested in my opinion, you only trying to latch onto whatever opportunity you think presents itself for you to try and prove me wrong. Even if offered you would still continue on some shit talk... so why waste my time and yours?
As much as yuh doh want to share them with elan, please share your disagreements with me.
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Bakes you real flaky. One minute Trinis apt to emotional hyperbole, but yet Tim Kee response is right. I am yet to see where Sancho disrespected or dealt with Tim Kee in an unprofessional manner. Even if, Tim Kee is the President of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association. Then, there is no US behind that is there.
You still eh address Townley response to yours and Tim Kee assertion that the statute of limitation has expired. Why? Yuh jump in hot and sweaty when the press release drop, but now conveniently omitting your response to Townley's statement. My, my!
What you fail to realize is that I am not here to comment for your pleasure. Never once did I state or insinuate that "Towley talking chupidness"... Townley experienced enough that I'm sure he feels he has some basis for what he's saying, I have my disagreements. You are not interested in my opinion, you only trying to latch onto whatever opportunity you think presents itself for you to try and prove me wrong. Even if offered you would still continue on some shit talk... so why waste my time and yours?
lol......well I know you have no problem with engaging and disseminating shit talk so I latched on to what has been very glaring and convenient silence with certain aspects of this topic.
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And seriously Bakes, that Statute of limitation discussion will be greatly appreciated.
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You set quite a low bar for the conduct of official business. Having the "right", and exercising better judgement are separate matters. Even if I accept that Sancho acted injudiciously, under your reasoning that creates carte blanche for Tim Kee to respond injudiciously. My position is that it does not, and should not. Moreover, for a man glaringly in more than one public office, Tim Kee knows better, ought to know better, and should apply an elevated standard.
I have not set any bar, high or low. Tim Kee is human, and one can stand by idly while others take potshots at you with impunity, but for so long. I did not say that his actions were proper or in keeping with public decorum (not that I believe they depart from such either). What I stated in essence is that he has every right to defend himself from the personal attacks directed at him by Sancho et al. Sancho is a fella I have a tremendous amount of respect for and I think his stewardship of this fight, particularly once Shaka stepped aside, has been admirable. None of this excuses the extremely emotional and personal statements he has made in the press. I understand his frustrations, but one cannot adopt a scorched earth mentality just because you're frustrated with the process. Maybe his comments were not born of frustration, maybe he genuinely feels that Tim Kee and Phillips have no scruples... either way, Tim Kee doesn't have "carte blanche" (and nowhere did I state or insinuate as much, so quit playing de ass) to act injudiciously, but he certain has a right to deride the comments as a joke. Whatever public office he holds is immaterial to his classification of the threats in this instance.
RE: you good faith comment
I considered the paid component of the transaction. What you surprisingly fail to appreciate is that good faith has an incremental and accretive element to it. Just because one has partially satisfied an obligation under an agreement does not obviate or remove the expectancy of good faith associated with the unsatisfied portion of the obligation.
What you fail to appreciate is that I never said payment in part is as good as satisfaction of the whole, or that it "obviate(s) or remove(s) the expectancy of good faith associated with the unsatisfied portion of the obligation." Under any circumstance, where there is a debt and the debtor has made repeated payments in satisfaction of that debt, the fact that the debtor is late (9 mos late according to the Players) in continuing to pay as agreed does not mean that the debtor is not acting in good faith. This is especially the case when everyone with sense knows that the debtor has a limited revenue stream. So... if the TTFA despite its limited resources have made payments when it easily could have avoided paying anything, that fact alone establishes that the TTFA is committed to resolving the matter and is acting in good faith. Any subsequent delay in payment when there is good reason for that delay, is not proof of them not acting in good faith. It is pure foolishness to assert otherwise.
That stated, I did not assert that the TTFA has failed to act in good faith. For convenience, I have bolded the relevant commentary.
As to the empty threat/posturing: I think you're being myopic as to the objective.
You don't have to bold anything for my convenience, I am well aware of what you said. Whether you were stating your opinion or hypothesizing on what was going thru Sancho's head, the comment still stands. Whether Sancho has some larger objective in threatening to wind up the TTFA, that doesn't change the fact that Tim Kee is free (for whatever larger objectives he himself might have) to rubbish the threat.
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Just a point of order, here....it may just be a convenience, but Sancho isn't threatening to wind up the TTFA...Sancho and 12 others have democratically agreed on the course of action. We would not be aware of Sancho's personal beliefs in this matter as his comments on the subject are primarily that of the group.
Also, I seem to recall that Sancho's reaction to TTFA was exactly that, a reaction to the statement made by TTFA officials. If it was emotive and personal it was more than likely a response to what he felt was the dismissive nature of the statement.
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As much as yuh doh want to share them with elan, please share your disagreements with me.
And seriously Bakes, that Statute of limitation discussion will be greatly appreciated.
Is not that I don't want to share my disagreements... I just realize when I wasting my time. It is hard to engage in a discussion of legal issues when people not serious about discussing those issues, or when man want to turn around and complain about "law class". Accordingly I will pick and choose what I decide to engage in. That being said, the Statute of Limitations is two years. I don't know of any common law jurisdiction, England included which has an open-ended statute on any crime or wrongdoing, except for murder. Whether 20 years or 40 years later you can still be charged with murder, that is the only exception.
I don't know English law as well as Townley does, nor do I know if the provisions in English law is exactly the same in TnT. In some cases it is... in fact, probably in most cases. In this case it does not appear to be the case. Contrary to what he asserts, Jack was not a "trustee" of the TTFF, he was in an advisory position with some element of control over the finances.
LIMITATION OF CERTAIN ACTIONS ACT- CHAPTER 7:09
4. (1) Where an action for damages is brought as result of a
tort and a tortfeasor (in this section referred to as “the first
tortfeasor” [the TTFA]) is entitled to recover a contribution in respect of the
damages from another tortfeasor [Jack Warner] who is not a party to the action,
no action to recover such contribution shall be brought by the
[TTFA] after a period of two years from the date on which the
[TTFA] is held liable for the damages by a judgment given
in civil proceedings or an award made by an arbitrator.
(2) Where the [TTFA] admits liability in favour of
[the Thirteen Players] in respect of damages, the date on which his
right to recover a contribution (from Jack Warner) accrues, is the earliest date on which
the amount to be paid by [the TTFA] in discharge of that liability is agreed
upon by or on behalf of the [TTFA] and [Jack Warner].
Also...
14. (1) Subject to subsection (3), where in the case of any
action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this
Act, either—
(a) the action is based upon the fraud of the
[Jack Warner];
(b) any fact relevant to the [TTFA's] right of action
was deliberately concealed from [them] by
[Jack Warner]; or
(c) the action is for relief from the consequences of
a mistake,
the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the [TTFA] has
discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be)
or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it.
Notice how the bolded squares with my earlier statement about the "best efforts"... putting the above in layman's terms.
The statute of limitations starts running at the occurrence of the wrongdoing that the TTFA would be complaining about... in other words, when Jack embezzled the money.
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An exception to that would be if the fraud could NOT have been discovered until after the statute ran, despite the best efforts of the TTFA. That's an argument they could make to a court, yes... but no guarantee that they'd prevail.
http://rgd.legalaffairs.gov.tt/laws2/alphabetical_list/lawspdfs/7.09.pdf
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Just a point of order, here....it may just be a convenience, but Sancho isn't threatening to wind up the TTFA... Sancho and 12 others have democratically agreed on the course of action. We would not be aware of Sancho's personal beliefs in this matter as his comments on the subject are primarily that of the group.
Also, I seem to recall that Sancho's reaction to TTFA was exactly that, a reaction to the statement made by TTFA officials. If it was emotive and personal it was more than likely a response to what he felt was the dismissive nature of the statement.
Point of order is timely, of merit, and well-received!
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Ok, so here could be the stupidest of questions ever asked on this site.....
Wasn't section 34 all about the period of time that passes after the crime was committed, which, I think was 7 years or after the accused was charged?
So, if a crime has gone without prosecution for, say, 20 years and new evidence links that crime to a suspect, the clock starts ticking once the man has been charged?
The was the essence of the section 34 scandal. That Ish & Steve were supposed to be tried within 7 years of being charged, not within 7 years of the crime being committed.
Therefore, Warner could be charged in 2032 if need be. So, Tim-Kee should really know this already before talking about statute of limitations.
Or, have I got this completely wrong?
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Ok, so here could be the stupidest of questions ever asked on this site.....
Wasn't section 34 all about the period of time that passes after the crime was committed, which, I think was 7 years or after the accused was charged?
So, if a crime has gone without prosecution for, say, 20 years and new evidence links that crime to a suspect, the clock starts ticking once the man has been charged?
The was the essence of the section 34 scandal. That Ish & Steve were supposed to be tried within 7 years of being charged, not within 7 years of the crime being committed.
Therefore, Warner could be charged in 2032 if need be. So, Tim-Kee should really know this already before talking about statute of limitations.
Or, have I got this completely wrong?
I think it's from discovery (investigation by law enforcement) of the wrong doing. Once the investigation officially begins, the law has - I thought was 5 years - to fully investigate and bring charges before the court. If within those 5 years the accused is not prosecuted, then the statute of limitation is said to have expired - in most cases.
Am I correct Bakes or no?
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Ok, so here could be the stupidest of questions ever asked on this site.....
Wasn't section 34 all about the period of time that passes after the crime was committed, which, I think was 7 years or after the accused was charged?
So, if a crime has gone without prosecution for, say, 20 years and new evidence links that crime to a suspect, the clock starts ticking once the man has been charged?
The was the essence of the section 34 scandal. That Ish & Steve were supposed to be tried within 7 years of being charged, not within 7 years of the crime being committed.
Therefore, Warner could be charged in 2032 if need be. So, Tim-Kee should really know this already before talking about statute of limitations.
Or, have I got this completely wrong?
Yes you have it completely wrong.
Section 34 is a "speedy trial" provision... which operates as a statute of limitation of sorts, but which is still different. The state has a limited time window once they charge you, to bring you to trial. The purpose of that is to prevent defendants lingering in jail forever for a crime which they ultimately could be found innocent of. As well as to prevent "spoliation" of evidence... the combination of which prejudices the defendant. In any speedy trial provision, the court still has discretion in extending the window for prosecution. Section 34 sought to remove that discretion.
Similarly, the court, upon proper motion from the TTFA, could decide to extend the SOL allowing them to sue Jack... but they'd first have to explain why they failed to sue him within the 2 year window. As I stated before, the SOL starts running from the occurrence of the offense, or from the discovery. If the TTFA wants to argue the "discovery rule" they would have to show convincingly why they couldn't discover the fraud earlier. If the court rules that they could have discovered the fraud sooner then the original date of occurrence applies. If the court rules that they couldn't have discovered the fraud earlier despite reasonable diligence in attempting to do so, then the discovery date applies. Either way, there is still a 2-year window... not sure where you're getting this hypothetical 2032 date from. Arguably the TTFF discovered the fraud more than 2 years ago. So either way they are time-barred.
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I think it's from discovery (investigation by law enforcement) of the wrong doing. Once the investigation officially begins, the law has - I thought was 5 years - to fully investigate and bring charges before the court. If within those 5 years the accused is not prosecuted, then the statute of limitation is said to have expired - in most cases.
Am I correct Bakes or no?
Yeah you have it correct... except is 10 years, not 5. And the clock doesn't start running from when they discover the crime, it's from when they decide to charge the accused (meaning they discover the crime and have enough evidence to bring charges against the accused).
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Maybe the correct term here is 'agitate' as in the players are seeking to agitate the process since it is moving either too slow or not at all. Seems like it might be working too, if from nothing else but from a visibility stand point, for a while I thought the situation was either closed or close to being finalized. Clearly it isn't.
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Really? I understood it just fine. To say it makes no sense is one thing ... to disagree with it is another.
How does the failure to identify the money as US currency suggest that Phillips "an American citizen with a legal background" may be the author?
...
Any progress with this or yuh still struggling with it? :devil:
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Some other issues on this thread merit response, but I shall leave them for now ... with the preference of asking a question: is it proper stewardship or improper stewardship of football in Trinidad & Tobago for the national federation to not act in a manner consistent with seeking legal recourse vis-a-vis JW?
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Any progress with this or yuh still struggling with it? :devil:
I have no idea where you got the notion that I was "struggling" with anything. It's your option to respond or not... I've already moved on.
Some other issues on this thread merit response, but I shall leave them for now ... with the preference of asking a question: is it proper stewardship or improper stewardship of football in Trinidad & Tobago for the national federation to not act in a manner consistent with seeking legal recourse vis-a-vis JW?
"Proper stewardship" is doing what's best for TnT football. What is "best" may not fit into neat, straight-forward narratives as the question appears to solicit.
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(Satire!)
Meet PNM’s mini-Warner: Tim Kee tickled by footballers’ plight
By Mr Live Wire (Wired868)
The People’s National Movement (PNM) made a significant step towards its bid to replace the People’s Partnership government in 2015 by getting its executive party in place this weekend. And you know it is business as usual when you see a dodgy salesman holding the purse strings.
Port of Spain Mayor Raymond Tim Kee, who benefitted from over a decade’s internship as Jack Warner’s Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFF) vice-president, is the PNM’s treasurer; and he has some interesting ideas about how one should treat his creditors.
Last week, Trinidad and Tobago’s 2006 World Cup players said they were running out of patience with the local football body’s failure to meet an eight-year debt and threatened to start bankruptcy periods if tangible evidence of a forthcoming payment was not made.
It was the funniest thing that Tim Kee, the current football president, heard whole week
“I know there is a threat of 14 days,” Tim Kee told TV6. “Well, I laugh at that; because that is a joke.”
As the public ought to know by now, what is joke for politicians is hardship for people.
Tim Kee further suggested that the players “are acutely aware that we do not have money.” Oddly enough, he seemed to think this was a reason NOT to wind up the TTFA rather than the other way around.
The football executive-turned-politician—and where have we seen that formula before?—then showed the depth of his empathy to the young me who trusted him to fulfil the oath he gave over a handshake and wrote down in a legal contract.
The TV6 reporter wanted to know if Tim Kee spoke to the aggrieved footballers recently; you know, about the little matter of the eight month late payment to the Warriors to settle an eight year old debt.
“No, I did not,” said Tim Kee. “I thought that they owed me at least the courtesy of a call. That has not been forthcoming.”
As always, it is the people who owe the politicians and must stroke their egos, genuflect and thank God it isn’t worse while being screwed.
Opposition Leader Keith Rowley was one of the biggest naysayers when Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar swore Warner into Cabinet. Now, Rowley has helped Warner’s mini-me collect the keys to Port of Spain; and he has given his party’s purse to a man whose organisation could not even handle a tee-shirt sale for now deceased footballer Akeem Adams.
It is the recurring story of Trinidad and Tobago’s politics: you buy milk at the grocery and go home to discover sour cream in the carton. And the blasted ombudsman will say you have to wait five years to return it.
Editor’s Note: Click HERE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vh-sVzNlSk) to see a January 2014 interview with TTFA president Raymond Tim Kee on the debt to the 2006 World Cup players. Notice he does not mention the possibility of recovering millions in missing funds from past special advisor Jack Warner.
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First, Townley made it clear that tort does not apply here. Secondly--not that it is really relevant here--but Jack Warner was chairman of the LOC that was mandated to handle all World Cup related income; so he was much more than an advisor.
Thirdly, one does not need to be a lawyer to know that it is nonsense to even suggest that the statute of limitation for a crime would start at the time the crime was committed rather than the time of discovery. Why would the law be so heavily biased in favour of the criminals?
Gov't ministers, for instance, could do whatever they liked because the statute of limitation would be up before they left office.
I would be amazed if even a layperson said that seemed right. But for someone who claims to be a lawyer to say that?
I hope you're on the AG's list of approved lawyers for those probes he likes to conduct Bakes. :beermug:
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First, Townley made it clear that tort does not apply here. Secondly--not that it is really relevant here--but Jack Warner was chairman of the LOC that was mandated to handle all World Cup related income; so he was much more than an advisor.
Thirdly, one does not need to be a lawyer to know that it is nonsense to even suggest that the statute of limitation for a crime would start at the time the crime was committed rather than the time of discovery. Why would the law be so heavily biased in favour of the criminals?
Gov't ministers, for instance, could do whatever they liked because the statute of limitation would be up before they left office.
I would be amazed if even a layperson said that seemed right. But for someone who claims to be a lawyer to say that?
I hope you're on the AG's list of approved lawyers for those probes he likes to conduct Bakes. :beermug:
1. Townley conveniently offers that Jack was a trustee of the TTFF and that he breached that trust. He offers no basis for that claim, nor does he offer a basis for the assertion that there is no Statute of Limitation for Breach of Trust. Since you're acting as mouthpiece, ask him to cite the applicable law that says there's no limitation on breach of trust.
2. You're right, it's irrelevant... the same legal principles apply to Breach of Director's Duty.
3. It is nonsense to offer a strawman argument about "the statute of limitation for a crime" when no one, but NO ONE is talking about the statutes of limitations on crimes. One does not need to be a lawyer to argue the law with someone who as you state, "claims to be a lawyer." However, one makes himself a fool in the process of arguing from a position of ignorance, and I would be similarly foolish to engage you in that pursuit. My one instruction to you is that perhaps you should read my statements for understanding before you proffer any rebuttal to them. It should be patently clear to you that I stated that that the default commencement of the running of the statute is the commission of the wrongful acts. An exception to the default rule is the "discovery rule." This is particularly true in the case of civil proceedings such as this. Had you any semblance of a clue you would not have mentioned "crime" since this is not a criminal proceeding, the applicable limitation rules to which are distinct.
No need for me to respond to your last two statements as they hold no particular resonance with, nor relevance to me.
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Tim Kee: Paying players a priority.
T&T Express Reports.
Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) president Raymond Tim Kee has stated that the matter involving the outstanding payments due to the 13 2006 World Cup players is very much on the front burner for his administration.
Speaking on Monday, Tim Kee emphasised the need for the matter to be put to rest, adding however that the TTFA was not in possession of the necessary funds at this time.
“I wish to categorically state that this matter is still very much on the front burner. As a matter of fact, if we had the funds now, these players would get their monies today or tomorrow,” Tim Kee stated.
He added that the timing of the release by the players was questionable with the country set to play two of its biggest international matches in some time and collaboration with the Ministry of Tourism to promote the country in Buenos Aires with the launch of supporters charter for the game at the Estadio Monumental on June 4.
“Perhaps there is the belief that the TTFA will acquire a large sum of funds from this game which is not true. Argentina will not pay a large sum of money to a country like Trinidad and Tobago.
Instead it would have to be the reverse but we were quite willing to accept the invitation to play them as they will cover our expenses in Argentina in terms of accommodation and so on and the same goes for the Iran game,” he explained.
“What we may benefit from is the charter being arranged with the Ministry of Tourism which will see fans purchasing packages from which money will go back into the TTFA for development.
“Even so, it’s not a huge amount. But rest assured that while we are still short of funds, that all efforts are being made to acquire the funding to pay the players. And you will recall that when I came into office that was one of the very first things we did last year which was making a payment of around ten million.
We have some outstanding amount for them which we are seeking at this point in time,” Tim Kee added.
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"It should be patently clear to you that I stated that that the default commencement of the running of the statute is the commission of the wrongful acts. An exception to the default rule is the "discovery rule."
If the rule is that you must dress professionally from Monday to Friday. And the "exception to the default rule" is that you can dress casually on Friday, then is not logically to say that you must dress professionally from Monday to Thursday?
I am not a lawyer. If I was the mouthpiece for any lawyer, I would be quoting law. But I'm not.
I'm pretty good at smelling nonsense though.
As the saying goes, if you cannot convince then confuse.
So you do your cut and paste jobs and try to interpret excerpts in whichever way suits your purpose and dress stuff up and what not. But you don't fool me. You're talking nonsense.
So fraud is not a crime because it is heard in civil proceedings rather than criminal proceedings yada, yada. Whatever. I won't debate with you on the fine print.
But I say again that it is nonsense to say that the statute runs from the time the "wrongdoing" is done as opposed to the discover of it.
Your "exception to the default rule" only proves the logic of what I said.
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You set quite a low bar for the conduct of official business. Having the "right", and exercising better judgement are separate matters. Even if I accept that Sancho acted injudiciously, under your reasoning that creates carte blanche for Tim Kee to respond injudiciously. My position is that it does not, and should not. Moreover, for a man glaringly in more than one public office, Tim Kee knows better, ought to know better, and should apply an elevated standard.
I have not set any bar, high or low. Tim Kee is human, and one can stand by idly while others take potshots at you with impunity, but for so long. I did not say that his actions were proper or in keeping with public decorum (not that I believe they depart from such either). What I stated in essence is that he has every right to defend himself from the personal attacks directed at him by Sancho et al. Sancho is a fella I have a tremendous amount of respect for and I think his stewardship of this fight, particularly once Shaka stepped aside, has been admirable. None of this excuses the extremely emotional and personal statements he has made in the press. I understand his frustrations, but one cannot adopt a scorched earth mentality just because you're frustrated with the process. Maybe his comments were not born of frustration, maybe he genuinely feels that Tim Kee and Phillips have no scruples... either way, Tim Kee doesn't have "carte blanche" (and nowhere did I state or insinuate as much, so quit playing de ass) to act injudiciously, but he certain has a right to deride the comments as a joke. Whatever public office he holds is immaterial to his classification of the threats in this instance.
Come nah man ... you shouldn't be engaged in this "threat" talk. Dahis you buying into the lexicon of the federation. When you are engaged in litigation on one side of a matter, do you characterize your fairly contemplated prerogatives as threats?
The first comment in bold reflects equivocation that ultimately defends the nonsense. Nonetheless, defending the "joke" comment does not hold water. It was a poor choice of word. Indeed, nothing about this situation is funny.
I would be surprised should Tim Kee repeat the comment. It was ill-advised.
Why is it that you spend a whole lot of space distilling your viewpoint in condemnation of Sancho, but devote marginal consideration regarding Mr. President, TTFA?
As to the second bold ... yuh engaging in semantic gymnastics. Moreover, the office is of course material to his comments. Yuh think ah would raise this observation if was ah private citizen speaking as such? The words of public actors have a consequence and effect not possessed by those of private actors.
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I am wasting my time engaging you, so this will be my last response:
"It should be patently clear to you that I stated that that the default commencement of the running of the statute is the commission of the wrongful acts. An exception to the default rule is the "discovery rule."
If the rule is that you must dress professionally from Monday to Friday. And the "exception to the default rule" is that you can dress casually on Friday, then is not logically to say that you must dress professionally from Monday to Thursday?
The rule is that the clock starts running when the wrongful act giving rise to the legal proceeding is committed. If that wrongful act is fraud, then the clock starts running the date that the fraud was committed. Some wrongful acts do not become apparent until well after they are committed. For this reason courts recognize an exception, tolling the statute until the date of discovery (provided the plaintiff can show that he exercised reasonable diligence in attempting to discover the fraud earlier, but could not). So using your example, the "Monday to Thursday" rule is that the clock starts running when the fraud is committed. Upon a showing of good cause, the Court might allow you dress casually on Friday with the discovery rule. See how that works?
I am not a lawyer. If I was the mouthpiece for any lawyer, I would be quoting law. But I'm not.
I'm pretty good at smelling nonsense though.
As the saying goes, if you cannot convince then confuse.
So you do your cut and paste jobs and try to interpret excerpts in whichever way suits your purpose and dress stuff up and what not. But you don't fool me. You're talking nonsense.
Clearly I owe Townley an apology, because if he was advising you yuh wouldn't be talking as much shit as yuh talking right now. Yuh obviously not as adept at smelling nonsense, otherwise yuh'd be overwhelmed by the stench of the excreta coming from yuh mouth. Deride what I post as "cut and paste" all yuh want... there is a reason why I post links for everything I post, people with any kind of smarts and education could feel free to follow the links and go read everything in context fuh themselves. Evidently I overestimated your ability in that regard.
So fraud is not a crime because it is heard in civil proceedings rather than criminal proceedings yada, yada. Whatever. I won't debate with you on the fine print.
But I say again that it is nonsense to say that the statute runs from the time the "wrongdoing" is done as opposed to the discover of it.
Your "exception to the default rule" only proves the logic of what I said.
I don't know what "logic" yuh referencing because your statements demonstrate a clear lack of the same. You are confused beyond help and too full of hubris to recognize as much. Fraud is a crime, but fraud is also a tort. Criminal fraud is prosecuted in a criminal proceeding by the DPP. Common law fraud (the tort) is 'prosecuted' in the form of a civil suit. The TTFA cannot prosecute Jack Warner for criminal fraud, they can only sue him for common law fraud. The respective statutes of limitation differ in the prosecution of criminal fraud and common law fraud, because the rules of Criminal Procedure are separate and distinct from the rules of Civil Procedure.
Your hypothetical about government ministers committing crimes does not apply in this instance so the relevant statute of limitation for the DPP to charge them is irrelevant to the limitation placed on the TTFA to bring suit against Jack in a civil proceeding. This is not "fine print", this is you not comprehending a concept that is elementary to every first year law student. Like you said, you are not a lawyer, nor a lawyer's mouthpiece... yet here you are arguing wrong and strong. Make no mistake about it, there is only one of us here who knows what he is talking about and he is not you. That having been said, now might be a good time for you to hush and go back and siddung behind yuh typewriter and grind yuh axe.
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RE: you good faith comment
I considered the paid component of the transaction. What you surprisingly fail to appreciate is that good faith has an incremental and accretive element to it. Just because one has partially satisfied an obligation under an agreement does not obviate or remove the expectancy of good faith associated with the unsatisfied portion of the obligation.
What you fail to appreciate is that I never said payment in part is as good as satisfaction of the whole, or that it "obviate(s) or remove(s) the expectancy of good faith associated with the unsatisfied portion of the obligation." Under any circumstance, where there is a debt and the debtor has made repeated payments in satisfaction of that debt, the fact that the debtor is late (9 mos late according to the Players) in continuing to pay as agreed does not mean that the debtor is not acting in good faith. This is especially the case when everyone with sense knows that the debtor has a limited revenue stream. So... if the TTFA despite its limited resources have made payments when it easily could have avoided paying anything, that fact alone establishes that the TTFA is committed to resolving the matter and is acting in good faith. Any subsequent delay in payment when there is good reason for that delay, is not proof of them not acting in good faith. It is pure foolishness to assert otherwise.
First bold: not sure why yuh mentioning that because I neither charged you with saying so, nor did my comment state such. So lehwe kick that to the curb.
Second bold: Yuh really believe that any perceived deficiency in good faith exists merely because the payment is late? Tardiness has been par for the course in this whole episode! I suggest the perception of a lack of good faith exists because of a failure to maintain transparency, open lines of communication, and behaviour consistent with being a "debtor" ... rather than the lateness of the payment itself. Again, tardiness and patience has characterized this process ... you focus much on the TTFA's fiscal position and rely on that as a basis for questioning the stance of the Thirteen, but you're seemingly ignoring that beyond the immediacy of their present position ... lies a principled stance that 8 years later bears its own value and currency.
Third bold: so you're imputing to the federation good faith for doing the right thing when the right thing was the thing to do? Ok, got it ... thing is once one commits to a process, one has to responsibly commit to the process ... ent?
Why should the federation be accorded double credit for doing the right thing? (1) Doing the right thing and (2) attempting to do the right thing despite not actually acting on a deliverable ... In this you conveniently exclude the fact that a settlement at the time of agreement occurred with proper contemplation of operable constraints ... we will pay yuh at this time and not at that time because this time is when we could reasonably do it, not the other time!
Do recall this is an environment in which a TD left office due to non-payment and in which countless others function in an environment characterized by reasonable grounds for insecurity and non-payment.
Zealous advocacy for the status quo noted ... :devil:
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Come nah man ... you shouldn't be engaged in this "threat" talk. Dahis you buying into the lexicon of the federation. When you are engaged in litigation on one side of a matter, do you characterize your fairly contemplated prerogatives as threats?
The first comment in bold reflects equivocation that ultimately defends the nonsense. Nonetheless, defending the "joke" comment does not hold water. It was a poor choice of word. Indeed, nothing about this situation is funny.
I would be surprised should Tim Kee repeat the comment. It was ill-advised.
Why is it that you spend a whole lot of space distilling your viewpoint in condemnation of Sancho, but devote marginal consideration regarding Mr. President, TTFA?
As to the second bold ... yuh engaging in semantic gymnastics. Moreover, the office is of course material to his comments. Yuh think ah would raise this observation if was ah private citizen speaking as such? The words of public actors have a consequence and effect not possessed by those of private actors.
This is a waste of my time. We disagree on whether Tim Kee's use of "joke" was reasonable or within the bounds of propriety. Disagreement noted, moving on.
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Zealous advocacy for the status quo exercise of common sense noted ... :devil:
:beermug:
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Zealous advocacy for the status quo exercise of common sense noted ... :devil:
:beermug:
Send yuh memo to Townley ...
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wey we $200,000,000 ??
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Why Tim Kee eh sue Warner for money which could easily pay de debt ...same khaki pants oui ! he was dere when all was taking place ...and said nothing ! Now he put on a coat of paint and parading like a new vessel ...kyah fool me...... run for treasurer in de PNM ...taking a page from his mentor ...go where de money is ...
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Why Tim Kee eh sue Warner for money which could easily pay de debt ...same khaki pants oui ! he was dere when all was taking place ...and said nothing ! Now he put on a coat of paint and parading like a new vessel ...kyah fool me...... run for treasurer in de PNM ...taking a page from his mentor ...go where de money is ...
and when he sue Warner, and Warner get vex and start to talk about all the "Brown Envelopes" his staff(call name, :whistling: ) hold..what happens then...as a poster used to say "common man". Doh expect ppl to cut dey own throat
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Why Tim Kee eh sue Warner for money which could easily pay de debt ...same khaki pants oui ! he was dere when all was taking place ...and said nothing ! Now he put on a coat of paint and parading like a new vessel ...kyah fool me...... run for treasurer in de PNM ...taking a page from his mentor ...go where de money is ...
and when he sue Warner, and Warner get vex and start to talk about all the "Brown Envelopes" his staff(call name, :whistling: ) hold..what happens then...as a poster used to say "common man". Do expect ppl to cut dey own throat
Dahis why the Japanese have hari kari ... better than having it slit by another?
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Was there a compromise? (players and ttfa not sparring forumites :devil:)
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Why Tim Kee eh sue Warner for money which could easily pay de debt ...same khaki pants oui ! he was dere when all was taking place ...and said nothing ! Now he put on a coat of paint and parading like a new vessel ...kyah fool me...... run for treasurer in de PNM ...taking a page from his mentor ...go where de money is ...
and when he sue Warner, and Warner get vex and start to talk about all the "Brown Envelopes" his staff(call name, :whistling: ) hold..what happens then...as a poster used to say "common man". Do expect ppl to cut dey own throat
Dahis why the Japanese have hari kari ... better than having it slit by another?
The Japanese used to have a kinda wierd philosophy bout shame. Is Trini politicos we talk bout..shame not in dem vocab.
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World Cup bonus for Spain players sparks anger among lawmakers (http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/world-cup-bonus-for-spain-players-sparks-anger-among-lawmakers-060714)
Spain players will each get a World Cup bonus of 720,000 euros ($980,000) if they win the tournament in Brazil, sparking anger among lawmakers.
Captain Iker Casillas and vice-captain Xavi Hernandez signed the deal with Spain's football federation June 3 on behalf of the 23 players. It was an increase from the 600,000 euros each player received when Spain won the 2010 tournament.
Lawmakers Pablo Martin Pere and Susana Ros of the opposition Socialist party criticized the premium as ''disproportionate'' and ''an insult to citizens'' given the recent economic crisis.
Lawmaker Josep Antoni Duran i Lleida tweeted that Spain would pay ''more than twice'' the bonus Germany would if it wins the tournament.
''Are we twice as rich as Germany?'' his tweet said.
Germany's team will receive 300,000 euros if they win, having kept the same agreement they struck when they participated in Euro 2012.
Spain's economy began to crumble in 2008 with the collapse of its bloated real-estate sector, and unemployment soared to 26.1 percent at the close of 2013.
Like other countries that have the euro as their currency - such as Ireland, Portugal or Greece - Spain suffered as the government imposed harsh austerity measures in order to get its public finances into shape.
Despite stinging cutbacks, unemployment will remain above 20 percent until 2017.
Lawmaker Laia Ortiz said she would raise the matter of the squad's premium in parliament and lambasted football for being ''another world'' where ''there is no crisis.''
Each member will receive a payment of 360,000 euros if the squad reaches the final, and 180,000 euros if it makes the semifinals.
Spain attacking midfielder Juan Mata said such payments were ''sometimes used against us,'' but that he would be playing ''with the same enthusiasm I had as a child, in a bid to try and win another World Cup, without thinking about all the rest.''
The 2014 World Cup winner will be awarded $35 million by FIFA, soccer's governing body, but many say the money should go toward programs that promote the game at all levels.
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The position taken by those in opposition to the dimension of the bonuses is reminiscent of the exchange Trini and I had regarding Queiroz's compensation within recent days. Football success brings joy to a nation, but it does not erase suffering. For some joyous days every four years, in June and July, it merely eases and distracts from the pain.
This is a very serious issue that's somewhat at the heart of the social unrest in Brazil. Recently, Zico said that football had to renegotiate its social contract with the public, and that the public had to make compromises as well.
Aside from the distortion on football as a premium, there's also the question of where the prize money should be invested. When a nation triumphs, that nation can make the case that it has done something correct in its development model, but is that really the case comprehensively top to bottom? Or, has the nation just been picking winners?
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A month has passed and I assume they got their money?
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this bull still dragging on???
schupsss.... pay these men their money and done with all this nonsense so we can focus on making russia 2018... that is the most imporatant thing right now...
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Rumour has it that the Government is set to pay the Soca Warriors the outstanding amounts due to them. Is that the statement the Prime Minister is set to make later today?. Hmmmm!!!!!
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Yes the players at the Diplomatic Centre as I type.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmm
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Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Kams lookin 4 brownie points any which way she can get it.
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Yes they get paid Kams after all is the socawarriors money was used by Jack 2 finance all yuh campaign.
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If the government didn't pay it,yall would cuss them,they are now set to pay it,allyuh put a cynical spin on it,I'm not surprised,but at least Sancho was very thankful to the Lady.Whether the "brownie points"does her any good,she has settled an 8 year old problem that had nothing to do with the UNC.
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PM resolves World Cup bonus dispute independent of the TTFA
By Lasana Liburd (Wired868)
The 2006 World Cup bonus dispute was finally settled today, eight years after the fact, by Trinidad and Tobago Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar.
This afternoon, in a press conference at the Diplomatic Centre in St Ann’s, Persad-Bissessar stole a march on Sport Minister Anil Roberts, National Security Minister Gary Griffith and Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) president Raymond Tim Kee and general secretary Sheldon Phillips by taking ownership of the country’s most vexatious sport case, which gained worldwide attention.
In 2006, former FIFA vice-president and Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) special advisor Jack Warner, who is also a former Minister of Works and National Security in Persad-Bissessar’s Cabinet, negotiated a bonus agreement with the country’s World Cup players that was never honoured.
Warner’s refusal to hand over accounting documents to the football body or the High Court meant that, even today, no one knows the true figure generated by the country’s historic appearance at the Germany World Cup.
However, the 13 “Soca Warriors” who took the TTFA to court agreed to settle for US$3 million and, today, Persad-Bissessar instructed Finance Minister Larry Howai to pay the outstanding US$1.3 million (TT$8.3 million) to the players.
“It was a moment that unified us like never before,” said Persad-Bissessar, about the players’ World Cup debut. “They healed every national wounds, bridged every divide…”
World Cup 2006 players Brent Sancho, Stern John, Aurtis Whitley, Cornell Glen, Cyd Gray, David Atiba Charles and Anthony Wolfe attended the press conference and Sancho thanked the Prime Minister and Attorney General Anand Ramlogan for their assistance.
“On behalf of those of us who have been fighting a long, tough legal battle to get our just due payment for our efforts at the FIFA World Cup, Germany 2006,” said Sancho, “this moment means more than any of us can describe.”
Persad-Bissessar left the press conference to head straight for the Piarco International Airport and a flight to Brazil for the World Cup. She told reporters that her trip was a private affair and will not be paid for by taxpayers.
“I leave later this afternoon on a private visit to Brazil with my grandson,” she told the Trinidad Express. “I want to assure you that not one cent of Government’s money is being used for this private visit.”
There was no suggestion that Sport Minister Anil Roberts or the present Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) played any direct role in the settlement.
Insiders suggested it might not be coincidental that the Prime Minister’s sudden concern for the players follows close on the heels of a series of damaging exposés in the Trinidad Express about the controversial Life Sport programme, which is linked to death threats for Ministry of Sport permanent secretary Ashwin Creed and Life Sport director Ruth Marchan and at least one murder.
Two years ago, former Trinidad and Tobago goalkeeper Kelvin Jack, in a Wired868 column, accused the Prime Minister of twice ignoring letters for assistance in resolving the matter.
“Twelve other 2006 World Cup players and myself are lost for words and disenchanted with the Honourable Prime Minister’s silence,” stated Jack. “I understand that the Prime Minister is a very busy person but, in my opinion, she has no excuse for not acknowledging receipt of our correspondence.
“It is disrespectful, not only to my teammates and I, but also to the citizens of my homeland since taxpayers directly contributed at least $80 million of the TTFF’s 2006 World Cup revenue.
“I am presuming—although I still hope I’m wrong—that the Prime Minister isn’t bothered if a member of her government, Works Minister Jack Warner, is yet to account for over $200 million that my team mates, myself and our beloved fans helped generate when we qualified for the 2006 World Cup.”
Even after Warner’s disgraceful fall from office in 2013, Persad-Bissessar and her government showed no public interest in the players’ case.
The players, who were awarded the Chaconia Gold medal winners after Trinidad and Tobago became the smallest nation to qualify for a senior FIFA World Cup, responded by turning up the pressure on the TTFA.
Tim Kee, who was a vice-president throughout the scandal, replaced Oliver Camps at the helm of the TTFA in late 2012. And he, along with Phillips and Jeffrey Webb, Warner’s successor as CONCACAF president, convinced the players that were keen to settle with an opening payment on 20 May 2013.
But the good rapport did not last as the TTFA never completed its second court-ordered payment in September and the Warriors vowed to resume legal action.
Tim Kee, who is also the Port of Spain mayor, responded by threatening to deny the players their due by starting a fresh organisation; while a Phillips press release said the football body would “continue uninterrupted” despite impending legal action from the Warriors.
The TTFA had already showed no inclination to follow the instructions of the High Court and sue Warner, the former TTFA special advisor, for allegedly misappropriating football money. The football body suggested, via press release, that the matter was statute barred although Phillips later backed away from this position after the players’ British attorney Michael Townley rubbished the claim.
Behind the scenes, Phillips appealed first to the Sport Ministry and then the National Security Ministry to wipe out its estimated $28 million debt, which also includes outstanding payments to former national coach Russell Latapy and ex-technical director Anton Corneal.
Privately, he told the Warriors to expect Cabinet approval for their payment before Carnival 2014. But months passed without any inkling that Griffith would come to their rescue.
Instead, another party allegedly suggested to the Prime Minister, during the first round of the Brazil 2014 World Cup, that it would be a wonderful gesture if the Warriors were paid off before the completion of the tournament and while the nation was seduced by the power of football.
The figure, who is independent of the government and the TTFA but has a sport background, asked to remain anonymous.
Persad-Bissessar supposedly replied that she would give “active consideration” to the players’ settlement. The Attorney General is believed to have played an active role in resolving the matter.
“The Prime Minister is a football fan,” claimed the third-party. “All she needed was to be reminded that it was an unresolved issue… She thought it was a court matter and she could not intervene.”
The suggestion that the Prime Minister was unaware of the status of the bonus dispute flies in the face of widespread and readily available information on the matter; not to mention letters to her office from the players themselves.
However, two other persons close to the negotiations—including a 2006 World Cup player—confirmed that the final settlement with the government was instigated by a party independent of the TTFA.
Today, Persad-Bissessar confirmed that her government had decided to pay the players for their historic achievement.
“On behalf of the Soca Warriors Online members who stuck it out over the years enduring so many legal battles,” said Sancho, “may I take the time to express my gratitude to the Honourable Prime Minister and her government for this heart warming gesture.
“We recognize that the government has no legal obligation to assist us yet chose to do so through this gesture. All of Trinidad and Tobago can breathe a collective sigh of relief that a moment that brought us all so much happiness and pride is free of any grievance…
“We will all follow the events in Brazil this week with an unfettered spirit and only great memories of the time the Trinidad and Tobago anthem played on the football field in Germany.”
There is still no word, though, on if Warner will ever be asked to account for the missing millions that taxpayers will now foot.
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One hurdle crossed, now for the coaches to get paid....
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LOL... this bullshit. Kamla get voted into office on the strength of money Jack thief from the TTFF... now she want to ride in like a knight on a white horse to act like she doing something noble. GTFOH. But happy the players will get the rest of they money now... tired hearing about this now.
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Evans Wise played 4 games for T&T and getting millions, I hope Silvio Spann gets his share.
Sancho needs to thank the SWO also, he forgetting.
:rotfl:
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When is the next general election?
;D
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Nice bit of PR.
So what happen to the money?
No questions?
JW get away?
It that easy to displace 80 million dollars and keep your job?
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That is the multi million dollar question right there vb!
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Click the link: http://tunein.com/radio/The-Street-919-s88618/
Quite interesting!!
Jack Warner press release statement on the issue is also being debated.
Mods please merge with other related thread later as I want folks to tune into program!
Jack is pledging for Oliver Camps to get some money as well so that he doesn't lose his home.
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A caller on Street 91.9FM just referred to our Prime Minister as our Prime Monster!
Some of these callers real funny yes! ;D
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Just happy this thing is finally over.
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In my view it is right for the PM to pay the 2006 Warriors at this point since it is part of their money that Jack Warner used to help fund the PP's 2010 election campaign.
In fact they should have paid the Soca Warriors since 2010 as soon as they came into power rather than waiting this long seeing that the Warriors money was used to help get them into power.
Why take this long to show your gratitude to the Soca Warriors when your other election sponsors didn't have to wait this long?
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I just happy to be too rid of the issue. Just saw a report on all the money they got. Don't know if it is true because of the source but if it is they are kind of looking greedy. They should have just gotten their participation bonuses and get medals from the government and hug. Lol. Hope they can start fresh now and I hope the audit the ttfa before they could get more funding from the government.
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91.9 have d most set of illiterate announcers and callers in this country. I thought it was them carrying d press conference. I never hear so much nonsense in such a short period of time.
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Just heard on CNC3 that Sancho said they are still going ahead with their Court action. I am confused, wasn't it the money they wanted so what will the Court action be about now, just asking.
Maybe its more about the principle to Sancho and the lot than about the money?
Holding the TTFA to account will mean long term change within the TTFA for the better regards transparency, accountability, etc.
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Just heard on CNC3 that Sancho said they are still going ahead with their Court action. I am confused, wasn't it the money they wanted so what will the Court action be about now, just asking.
It was never only bout d money they want 2 get rid of all d croonies.
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Just heard on CNC3 that Sancho said they are still going ahead with their Court action. I am confused, wasn't it the money they wanted so what will the Court action be about now, just asking.
It was never only bout d money they want 2 get rid of all d croonies.
Ok, Just heard Sancho on CNC3 saying that they will continue their legal battle & that they have an agreement with the Government that whatever monies recovered they will repay the Government.
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91.9 have d most set of illiterate announcers and callers in this country. I thought it was them carrying d press conference. I never hear so much nonsense in such a short period of time.
Stop dissing Iwer's station like that! ;)
Btw T&T football team manager David Muhammad has a regular show on there 8-10pm Mondays to Thursdays.
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If the government didn't pay it,yall would cuss them,they are now set to pay it,allyuh put a cynical spin on it,I'm not surprised,but at least Sancho was very thankful to the Lady.Whether the "brownie points"does her any good,she has settled an 8 year old problem that had nothing to do with the UNC.
Nothing 2 do wit d UNC? So u think it was his money he use to fund the campaigns in 2007 and 2010. Jack use the soca warriors money. Kams eh care 1 fart bout Sancho and them. Brent just bein PC. I glad they get they money since my tax dollars payin 200,000 to cut grass in Life Sport I say use it 2 pay d players.
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91.9 have d most set of illiterate announcers and callers in this country. I thought it was them carrying d press conference. I never hear so much nonsense in such a short period of time.
Stop dissing Iwer's station like that! ;)
Btw T&T football team manager David Muhammed has a regular show on there 9-10pm Mondays to Thursdays.
Me eh care who station it is but u cyah b on radio and be so dumb.
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So they are just going to bankrupt the federation for the hell of it. I don't get it. If they know about wrong doing put it in the press and let the public deal with it. We have been suffering for 2 cycles now. Geez. Fed up of this thing.
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91.9 have d most set of illiterate announcers and callers in this country. I thought it was them carrying d press conference. I never hear so much nonsense in such a short period of time.
Stop dissing Iwer's station like that! ;)
Btw T&T football team manager David Muhammed has a regular show on there 9-10pm Mondays to Thursdays.
Me eh care who station it is but u cyah b on radio and be so dumb.
Why?! Aren't we living in a democracy where every creed and race can find an equal place?
My point is David Muhammad's programme cannot be described as dumb and illiterate so your branding of all the presenters and callers to the station as dumb is inaccurate.
It is also good that everyone is allowed to call in an express their view whether you may think they are dumb or not as we are supposed to be living in a democracy.
Even Sat Maharaj has a radio show on one of the other stations because T&T is still a democracy where everyone is allowed to speak and to hang themselves if they are wrong and ignorant.
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91.9 have d most set of illiterate announcers and callers in this country. I thought it was them carrying d press conference. I never hear so much nonsense in such a short period of time.
CO-SIGNNNNNNN
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So they are just going to bankrupt the federation for the hell of it. I don't get it. If they know about wrong doing put it in the press and let the public deal with it. We have been suffering for 2 cycles now. Geez. Fed up of this thing.
How do you know that they are going to do that if we still don't have enough accountability and transparency regards what is coming in and what is being spent?
Apparently they want the TTFA to live up to its responsibilities for the long term future of our football regards transparency and accountability and will pay back the government if/when the TTFA gets back the stolen money that was siphoned off by JW in order to pay the Warriors what was originally promised to them.
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91.9 have d most set of illiterate announcers and callers in this country. I thought it was them carrying d press conference. I never hear so much nonsense in such a short period of time.
Stop dissing Iwer's station like that! ;)
Btw T&T football team manager David Muhammed has a regular show on there 9-10pm Mondays to Thursdays.
Me eh care who station it is but u cyah b on radio and be so dumb.
Why?! Aren't we living in a democracy where every creed and race can find an equal place?
My point is David Muhammad's programme cannot be described as dumb and illiterate so your branding of all the presenters on the station is inaccurate.
It is also good that everyone is allowed to call in an express their view whether you may think they are dumb or not as we are supposed to be living in a democracy.
Even Sat Maharaj has a radio show on one of the other stations.
I eh care bout Sat/David Muhammed but d fellas I heard this afternoon is d poster boy 4 stupidity.
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91.9 have d most set of illiterate announcers and callers in this country. I thought it was them carrying d press conference. I never hear so much nonsense in such a short period of time.
Stop dissing Iwer's station like that! ;)
Btw T&T football team manager David Muhammed has a regular show on there 9-10pm Mondays to Thursdays.
Me eh care who station it is but u cyah b on radio and be so dumb.
Why?! Aren't we living in a democracy where every creed and race can find an equal place?
My point is David Muhammad's programme cannot be described as dumb and illiterate so your branding of all the presenters on the station is inaccurate.
It is also good that everyone is allowed to call in an express their view whether you may think they are dumb or not as we are supposed to be living in a democracy.
Even Sat Maharaj has a radio show on one of the other stations.
I eh care bout Sat/David Muhammed but d fellas I heard this afternoon is d poster boy 4 stupidity.
I agree but his views don't represent the views of all the callers or even the presenters so why try to brand all the presenters and callers to the station as dumb because of one caller?
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Ah happy for de fellas....but, and is a BIG BUT.......
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Just heard on CNC3 that Sancho said they are still going ahead with their Court action. I am confused, wasn't it the money they wanted so what will the Court action be about now, just asking.
It was never only bout d money they want 2 get rid of all d croonies.
Ok, Just heard Sancho on CNC3 saying that they will continue their legal battle & that they have an agreement with the Government that whatever monies recovered they will repay the Government.
so the gov't givin the players a tax-payer funded loan so that they could still go after the TTFF? And if they don't win keep we money?
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I have to laugh when Warner keeps rolling out the old chestnut about T&T not scoring a goal or winning a game! I know he's banned from football, but surely he must have noted the following from Brazil:
England P 3 W 0 D 1 L 2 GD -2
Cameroon P 3 W 0 D 0 L 3 GD -8
Australia P 3 W 0 D 0 L 3 GD -6
Japan P 3 W 0 D 1 L 2 GD -4
Honduras P 3 W 0 D 0 L 3 GD -7
Iran P 3 W 0 D 1 L 2 GD -3
Ghana P 3 W 0 D 1 L 2 GD -2
S.Korea P 3 W 0 D 1 L 2 GD -3
That's 8 teams that didn't win a game! Admittedly, they all managed to score at least 1, but I'm sure that they all got paid bigger bonuses than the 06 boys received.....and won't have to wait until 2022 to spend it!
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Ah happy for de fellas....but, and is a BIG BUT.......
200,000 a month 2 cut grass in Life Sport so I can sleep good 2nite with this payment
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I have to laugh when Warner keeps rolling out the old chestnut about T&T not scoring a goal or winning a game! I know he's banned from football, but surely he must have noted the following from Brazil:
England P 3 W 0 D 1 L 2 GD -2
Cameroon P 3 W 0 D 0 L 3 GD -8
Australia P 3 W 0 D 0 L 3 GD -6
Japan P 3 W 0 D 1 L 2 GD -4
Honduras P 3 W 0 D 0 L 3 GD -7
Iran P 3 W 0 D 1 L 2 GD -3
Ghana P 3 W 0 D 1 L 2 GD -2
S.Korea P 3 W 0 D 1 L 2 GD -3
That's 8 teams that didn't win a game! Admittedly, they all managed to score at least 1, but I'm sure that they all got paid bigger bonuses than the 06 boys received.....and won't have to wait until 2022 to spend it!
:beermug:
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Tim Kee thanks PM
By Anna Ramdass (T&T Express)
Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) head Raymond Tim Kee wasted no time and immediately sent a letter of thanks to Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar yesterday for paying the Soca Warriors US$1.3 million.
Tim Kee expressed gratitude for the Prime Minister’s gesture as he pointed out that it has been 11 months since the TTFA and the Government have been in discussions about the outstanding debt owed to the Soca Warriors.
“Records will indicate, our initial efforts focused on the invaluable role Government can play in making football relevant again in Trinidad and Tobago, starting with addressing the vexing issue surrounding the debts owed to the ’06 Warriors and others such as Russell Latapy and other members of our technical staff,” stated Tim Kee.
He stated further that the sport of football plays an immeasurable role in this nation and the rest of the world as the world’s most popular sport.
Tim Kee stated that the attention commanded by the World Cup in Brazil further underscores the depth and reach of the sport.
“As the entity recognised by FIFA to govern football in Trinidad and Tobago, we are particularly pleased that after months of discussion between our organisation and the Government...football in Trinidad and Tobago will thrive as a result of your benevolence,” he added.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I wonder if Tim Kee realizes that the money given to the players by the PM is a loan to make her look good before her Brazil holiday and that the players will still be coming after the TTFA for the money they are owed?
:thinking:
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so lemmeh see if I could rap meh head around dis
1. De Prime Minster call a press conference to deal with a big sporting issue and HER Minister of Sport the Right Honorable Sprang wasn't there? ah wondering now if he even knew about these developments
2. The PM states they are paying a long overdue debt to the players and Sancho say thanks we taking de money but we still in court with TTFF to recover the same money we just get paid for?
confused ???
no part of dat press conference did de PM or Sancho say it is a loan. Probable Jack new something when he said he hope this matter will be put to rest because it like the energizer bunny just going on and on.
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so lemmeh see if I could rap meh head around dis
1. De Prime Minster call a press conference to deal with a big sporting issue and HER Minister of Sport the Right Honorable Sprang wasn't there? ah wondering now if he even knew about these developments
2. The PM states they are paying a long overdue debt to the players and Sancho say thanks we taking de money but we still in court with TTFF to recover the same money we just get paid for?
confused ???
no part of dat press conference did de PM or Sancho say it is a loan. Probable Jack new something when he said he hope this matter will be put to rest because it like the energizer bunny just going on and on.
Of course Jack will say that because he is the one who made the promise and who ran off with the players money.
The fact is Jack is now in the PM bad books since leaving the UNC and starting his own rival party so why would she want to pay his debts for him?
This is a simply PR exercise by the PM to make herself look good before her Brazilian world cup holiday but she would love to see the players hang Jack even though part of the money that Jack stole from the players was probably used by him to fund the UNC 2006 and 2010 election campaigns while he was a member of her party.
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Just heard on CNC3 that Sancho said they are still going ahead with their Court action. I am confused, wasn't it the money they wanted so what will the Court action be about now, just asking.
It was never only bout d money they want 2 get rid of all d croonies.
it have something call elections for dat.Not to hold we football to ransom just like Jack but a different method
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Just heard on CNC3 that Sancho said they are still going ahead with their Court action. I am confused, wasn't it the money they wanted so what will the Court action be about now, just asking.
It was never only bout d money they want 2 get rid of all d croonies.
it have something call elections for dat.Not to hold we football to ransom just like Jack but a different method
Elections with the same croonies in place to be voted back in just as happens in T&T politics? Yeah right!
I say run them out by making sure they can't legally stand for elections in the future or nothing will ever change. :thumbsup:
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so lemmeh see if I could rap meh head around dis
1. De Prime Minster call a press conference to deal with a big sporting issue and HER Minister of Sport the Right Honorable Sprang wasn't there? ah wondering now if he even knew about these developments
2. The PM states they are paying a long overdue debt to the players and Sancho say thanks we taking de money but we still in court with TTFF to recover the same money we just get paid for?
confused ???
no part of dat press conference did de PM or Sancho say it is a loan. Probable Jack new something when he said he hope this matter will be put to rest because it like the energizer bunny just going on and on.
Of course Jack will say that because he is the one who made the promise and who ran off with the players money.
The fact is Jack is now in the PM bad books since leaving the UNC and starting his own rival party so why would she want to pay his debts for him?
This is simply a PR exercise by the PM to make herself look good before her Brazilian world cup holiday but she would love to see the players hang Jack even though part of the money that Jack stole from the players was probably used by him to fund the UNC 2006 and 2010 election campaigns while he was a member of her party.
alright so its a PR move. Got that, but is it a loan or a repayment of indebtedness to the players? Will like to see Aurtis Whitley giving back dat money if de TTFF comes through in de next 4yrs.
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Just heard on CNC3 that Sancho said they are still going ahead with their Court action. I am confused, wasn't it the money they wanted so what will the Court action be about now, just asking.
It was never only bout d money they want 2 get rid of all d croonies.
it have something call elections for dat.Not to hold we football to ransom just like Jack but a different method
Elections with the same croonies in place to be voted back in just as happens in T&T politics? Yeah right!
I say run them out by making sure they can't legally stand for elections in the future or nothing will ever change. :thumbsup:
let dem form dey new group and go up for elections. Probably there's an election problem I ain't know about, Dey steel votes or something?
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Just heard on CNC3 that Sancho said they are still going ahead with their Court action. I am confused, wasn't it the money they wanted so what will the Court action be about now, just asking.
It was never only bout d money they want 2 get rid of all d croonies.
it have something call elections for dat.Not to hold we football to ransom just like Jack but a different method
Elections with the same croonies in place to be voted back in just as happens in T&T politics? Yeah right!
I say run them out by making sure they can't legally stand for elections in the future or nothing will ever change. :thumbsup:
let dem form dey new group and go up for elections. Probably there's an election problem I ain't know about, Dey steel votes or something?
For decades Jack bought votes to keep his puppet Oliver as President of the TTFF and Tim was there observing and learning. Why do you think he does not want to go after his teacher for the players money?
Don't you know that them fellas have the "re-election process" under full control? Where have you been?
::)
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PM settles Warriors bonus dispute.
By MIRANDA LA ROSE (Newsday).
Eight years after they were promised a bonus for their appearance at the 2006 FIFA World Cup in Germany, 13 members of the Soca Warriors will be paid the outstanding balance of US$1.3 million.
“I have given instructions to the Minister of Finance (Larry Howai) to make provision for the outstanding US$1.3 million to be made available to these heroes,” Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar announced yesterday.
“This payment is to be made,” Persad-Bissessar said “without prejudice to any rights and remedies already accrued, or, which may accrue to the Soca Warriors.”
She made the announcement at the Diplomatic Centre, St Ann’s in the presence of seven of the players, including Brent Sancho who has been leading a legal battle to be paid the sums owed them. The other Soca Warriors members present were Cyd Gray, David Atiba Charles, Stern John, Cornell Glen, Anton Wolfe, and Aurtis Whitley.
While Government was under no legal obligation to make any payment to the players, Persad-Bissessar said, “we are not unmindful of the long and protracted legal battles waged by these football heroes of ours, and the situation today is that the players are still owed and entitled to a payment from an entity in the TTFF (Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation) that is unlikely to be in a position to pay.”
Recalling that in 2006, the Soca Warriors joined the world’s best in Germany, she said, “For eight months, from qualification in Bahrain in November 2005 to the end of the World Cup in June 2006 our nation soared with pride with the efforts of our team.”
When TT - the smallest nation ever - qualified for the mega sporting event, she said, “It was a moment that unified us like never before.”
“They healed every national wound, bridged every divide, and brought us together across all boundaries, there were no political, social, religious or ethnic differences, we acclaimed ourselves and embraced each other in a celebration of genuine patriotic pride,” she said.
However, the failure to honour a promised bonus marred all that went on before and a legal battle ensued.
The judgement in the arbitration that followed, she noted was that the players were entitled to 50 percent of the net profits TTFF derived from “the Road to Germany 2006 campaign.”
The sum was settled as US$3 million dollars, but to date the TTFF has only paid the players US$1.7 million dollars.
After consulting with members of Cabinet, including Attorney General Anand Ramlogan and Howai, Persad-Bissessar said, Government agreed to pay the balance owed.
She spoke shortly before leaving for a visit to Brazil with her grandson. “I want to assure you,” she said “that not one cent of Government’s money is being used for this private visit.”
Speaking on behalf of the 13 players, an emotional Sancho said he was overwhelmed and Government’s decision meant “more than any of us can describe.”
He recalled that when they returned to Piarco from Germany they were greeted as heroes.
“We didn’t expect asking for what we were promised to be met with eight years of humiliation, torment, blacklisting and even in some cases career loss,” he said.
While many had turned their backs on them and ignored their pleas, he said they had finally been heard.
Expressing thanks to the team members who endured the legal battles over the years and to Persad-Bissessar and her Government, Sancho said, “We recognise that the government has no legal obligation to assist us, yet chose to do so through this gesture.”
Asked whether the 2006 Soca Warriors will drop their legal battles, now that Government has paid the outstanding debt, Sancho said, “While this money is important for us, we still feel there is unfinished business. We intend to push on. We have suffered for a very, very long time.”
The legal battle will continue, he said in the hope that they can repay Government.
Meanwhile, TTFA president Raymond Tim Kee told Newsday he was “extremely pleased that Government has come through now. We requested that assistance so that football can breathe somewhat.”
The TTFA, he said began discussions with the Office of the Prime Minister for Government to pay the outstanding balance about six months ago and followed up in writing. He said they last met two weeks ago.
Asked whether the payment means that the TTFA does not owe the players anymore, Tim Kee said, “That is what we have been requesting, that Government pay on behalf of the TTFA.”
On assuming the TTFA presidency, he said, he acknowledged that the former players were owed the bonus promised by the old dispensation. After an issue was made out of it, he said, “We paid them what we could. We sought help from CONCACAF.”
Having run bankrupt, he said the TTFA sought Government’s assistance.
The 13 TT players: Brent Sancho, Stern John, Cyd Gray, David Atiba Charles, Cornell Glen, Anthony Wolfe, Aurtis Whitley, Kenwyne Jones, Evans Wise, Collin Samuel, Shaka Hislop, Kelvin Jack and Avery John.
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Nobeody looks and writes like Horner in the comments :p. Good for the players, but until the money Warner has stolen is solved there won't be complete closure on this
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tell me something, is this a loan to fight the case? why do the warriors need to repay the govt?
why continue to fight? Why not move on with their careers and help progress football in the nation, spending a lifetime in court feeds the lawyers and system, why sustain legal costs that could be directed at a campaign to run local football by persuading the regional bodies in TT...
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All yuh really expect football 2 progress under Tim Key? The players say if they recover d 200,000,000 they will payback d govt for it's goodwill gesture. What so hard to understand.
Election it had a time we did not even know when was d election. I agree wit all yuh Sancho and them should take d money and run because they fightin 4 people who cyah even spell fight.
We hear know the issues better than most and we chattin one set ah gobarr.
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Why do you think he does not want to go after his teacher for the players money?
Pro you really serious. You want to see another 8 yrs of rigmarole!
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Both of them could f**k right off together...
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PM settles Warriors bonus dispute.
By MIRANDA LA ROSE (Newsday).
While Government was under no legal obligation to make any payment to the players, Persad-Bissessar said, “we are not unmindful of the long and protracted legal battles waged by these football heroes of ours, and the situation today is that the players are still owed and entitled to a payment from an entity in the TTFF (Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation) that is unlikely to be in a position to pay.”
Pappyshow and f**kery. If you know the TTFA cannot pay the money then what is the point of paying the players directly and deliberately leaving open the possibility that the players could still go on and seek collection efforts against the same organization you said cannot pay? Why not give the TTFA the money with the stipulation that it be spent on the outstanding debt? this making Sancho and them look like they just out for money, no matter what they say.
As an aside, it will be interesting to see on what basis they plan on continuing this farce of a winding up petition currently before the courts.
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PM settles Warriors bonus dispute.
By MIRANDA LA ROSE (Newsday).
While Government was under no legal obligation to make any payment to the players, Persad-Bissessar said, “we are not unmindful of the long and protracted legal battles waged by these football heroes of ours, and the situation today is that the players are still owed and entitled to a payment from an entity in the TTFF (Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation) that is unlikely to be in a position to pay.”
Pappyshow and f**kery. If you know the TTFA cannot pay the money then what is the point of paying the players directly and deliberately leaving open the possibility that the players could still go on and seek collection efforts against the same organization you said cannot pay? Why not give the TTFA the money with the stipulation that it be spent on the outstanding debt? this making Sancho and them look like they just out for money, no matter what they say.
As an aside, it will be interesting to see on what basis they plan on continuing this farce of a winding up petition currently before the courts.
Bakes, I think this is exactly the point If you know the TTFA cannot pay the money It would appear to me from the TTFA statement that the govt were supposed to give the money to TTFA who would then pay the players and clear their debt, and this probably would have happened had Jack still been part of the PP govt. Now, with Tim-Kee representing PNM, the govt have helped "the victims" (the players) but by paying the money directly and calling it a loan, they have purposely pushed the players towards closing down TTFA to suit their political agenda. While the players may recognise this, their first priority was to get what they were promised and to see those guilty exposed and, possibly, prosecuted.
The interesting element of this "pappyshow" is that the players were attacked on the 2010 election platforms by the very same people who have now recognised them!
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??? Can someone please explain to me how you can pay off someone's debt by loaning the money to the injured party??? ???
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with Tim-Kee representing PNM
They will not make Tim Kee look good. Pappyshow on Jack, the former HNIC and a shot at PNM. Although PNM it have nothing worry about as far as the players are concerned.
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As Tim-Kee said, TTFA have been asking Govt to help pay the players. Hello, Tim-Kee is PNM, so that was never going to happen.
So, instead of giving the money to TTFA to pay the players (which would get TTFA off the hook) Kamla "loaned" the money directly, circumventing TTFA, who still owe the players.
Basically, it is hoped that TTFA will still have to go after Warner (which will make Kamla happy) and could still be wound up (which would also make Kamla happy)
TTFA are still in big trouble and have gained no kudos from the settlement.
Of course, there is no guarantee that the players will pursue the case with any gusto (after all, many of the 13 did nothing to help win the case in the first place!
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Well d "propagandaring" done start......... how she make time to do dat advert ..............these people chupid and transparent politicking is behond words .......why it take four years
it jus run today during d world cup match today
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Warriors still searching for missing $$
By Ian Prescott (Express).
WC players happy to be paid but...
Players from Trinidad and Tobago’s 2006 World Cup football team have indicated an intention to pursue a legal battle against the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA), despite Government on Monday agreeing to pay a final US $1.3 million settlement owed to them by the local governing body for football.
Yesterday, the Express polled a wide range of persons in the local fraternity for comment on the issue, including former players and administrators, over several generations. However, only a few were willing to speak on record.
It was unanimously agreed that the matter should now end in the interest of football. And it was suggested that the former Soca Warriors be careful they do not end up being looked upon as a “greedy” bunch. However, that notion was dismissed by former Soca Warriors defender and players’ representative Brent Sancho.
Among the few willing to speak on record were Trinidad and Tobago Olympic Committee president Brian Lewis and Jamaal Shabazz, the former Trinidad and Tobago men’s and women’s teams national coach.
Sancho presented the players’ view.
Sancho said that as a group of 13 players, they still had to discuss the next move forward. But, he added they wanted to know how the funds raised for the 2006 World Cup were spent.
“ I don’t think some people understand what we are trying to do. Our getting paid has nothing to do with the litigation process against the Federation,” Sancho declared. “We are on a quest to find out where the money went.”
Meanwhile, Trinidad and Tobago Olympic Committee president Lewis said his understanding is that the final US $1.3 million settlement reached would have been an integrated effort of the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA) , Prime Minister Kamla Persad Bissessar and probably the Minister of Sport. He congratulated all concerned, but hoped that in the interest of development and young footballers, the sport should be allowed to move on.
“I think an opportunity has been presented here by the Prime Minister and the Government of Trinidad and Tobago, and I say this with respect to all the parties concerned,” Lewis said.
“It is timely in that the current World Cup is about to end and qualifying for a new one is expected to begin in the near future.”
Lewis said qualifying for the World Cup in 2006 should have been the take-off point for Trinidad and Tobago as a football nation. Instead, he suggested the fact that T&T did not factor in 2010 and 2014 should be of greater concern.
“I feel it important that the matter is now put to rest. I would expect that this chapter in the history of Trinidad and Tobago Football as it relates to 2006 to now be closed, ” Lewis added. “It is an important opportunity to move football forward.”
Shabazz voiced similar sentiments.
“I am persona non grata with the TTFA, so anything I say regarding this matter has the tendency to heavily tainted,” the former T&T and Guyana national coach said.
“I am happy that the players received their money. But, I feel the opportunity is there to move on to the work ahead.”
However, Sancho insisted that it was important to determine where TT $200 million in funds raised during the 2006 World Cup campaign went.
“We owe it to every single Trinidad and Tobagonian to unearth where that money gone and try to recoup it,” Sancho said. “Despite financial remuneration we are going to stick to our pursuit. We owe it to football, we owe it to the developmental players.
“We are not saying that we are going to bankrupt anyone. I think the TTFA is doing a good enough job of that themselves,” Sancho added. “We said we are going to explore those avenues to unearth those monies that we said are missing.
“Now if it means we have to go down a certain road inclusive of closing (them) down, then we have to. If it doesn’t, then we don’t,” Sancho added. “But we all know that we have to go after the person that is culpable for the money that is missing.”
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LETTER TO THE PM FROM PRESIDENT TIM KEE
TTFA Website
The Honourable Kamla Persad Bissessar S.C.
Prime Minister
Republic of Trinidad and Tobago
Office of the Prime Minister
13-15 St. Clair Avenue
Dear Honourable Prime Minister,
Thank you!
After 11 months of collaboration and discussion between our organization and your office as well as other ministries, the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association would like to express our gratitude for your acknowledging the outstanding debt owed to the 2006 Soca Warriors. This is a tremendously important and joyous day for all of us football lovers.
Records will indicate, our initial efforts focused on the invaluable role government can play in making football relevant again in Trinidad and Tobago, starting with addressing the vexing issue surrounding the debts owed to the ’06 Warriors and others such as Russell Latapy and other members of our technical staff.
The sport of football plays a immeasurable role in this nation and the rest of the world as the world’s most popular sport. The attention commanded by the World Cup in Brazil further underscores the depth and reach of the sport.
As the entity recognized by FIFA to govern football in Trinidad and Tobago, we are particularly pleased that after months of discussion between our organization and the
government, as reflected in the attached correspondence, football in Trinidad and Tobago will thrive as a result of your benevolence.
It continues to be our firm belief that football can be used as an effective and compelling tool for crime reduction and community development.
Honourable Prime Minister, on behalf of our Executive, administration, and rest of our football family, we say thank you very much indeed.
Warm Regards,
Raymond Tim Kee
President
Trinidad and Tobago Football Association
cc: Mr. Joseph 'Sepp' Blatter- President, FIFA
Mr. Jeffrey Webb- VP, FIFA , President- CONCACAF
Mr. Howard McIntosh- FIFA Development Officer
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Sancho yuh on de fleckin' ball dread!! I am once again VERY proud of you for pursuing principle and not getting happy with what yuh get fuh yuhself and yuh padnahs. Let's push to find where that money went. This malignant cancer must be cut out with radical surgery before it spreads and takes over the WHOLE football body. Press on soldyah!!
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Sure, but Kee has published that letter for a rather obvious purpose. Lawyers, can you clarify if that letter (and a non-response) would be enough to support their claim in court? Surely they need some sap to reply to that letter for it to be worthwhile?
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Sure, but Kee has published that letter for a rather obvious purpose. Lawyers, can you clarify if that letter (and a non-response) would be enough to support their claim in court? Surely they need some sap to reply to that letter for it to be worthwhile?
It just says that the govt acknowledged the debt, not that they relieved TTFA of it! This would mean nothing court as far as I can see!
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People does call Trinbagonians chupid and ullible, that we are a banana republic because anyone can tief money and no jail or even accountability. But here you have a group willing to go the distance for accountability and they getting maligned, not only by locals, but expat also.
What the hell we want. Sancho and they showing exactly what T&T need, leaders who are willing to put those in charge to the sword even it mean public ridicule. This is the type of leadership we are truly lacking.
Good going Sancho, I hope you stick to your guns and let them know we have to do different.
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interesting developments... could lead to a total clean up of TTFA :beermug:
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People does call Trinbagonians chupid and ullible, that we are a banana republic because anyone can tief money and no jail or even accountability. But here you have a group willing to go the distance for accountability and they getting maligned, not only by locals, but expat also.
What the hell we want. Sancho and they showing exactly what T&T need, leaders who are willing to put those in charge to the sword even it mean public ridicule. This is the type of leadership we are truly lacking.
Good going Sancho, I hope you stick to your guns and let them know we have to do different.
ent BUT he better than me I would run and let the ungrateful lot continue to spin top in mud. Cue Sparrow we like it so in fact we luv it.
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FROM BRENT SANCHO
RE....
Guys,
I would like to personally thank you and all of the other members of the socawarriors website for your moral support during this ordeal. I personally intend to fight on in whatever way possible to get the missing monies from the 2006 World Cup back into the coffers of the TTFA. Although money does not necessarily equate to instant success, I believe structural changes within the current administration is imperative to see our beloved nation reach the highs equivalent of the 2006 Germany World Cup team. We may have won the battle but the war is far from over. Looking forward to soldiering on with you guys, you guys are amazing, all of you.
Thanks again
Regards Brent
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there is so much read between the lines in this...... but ah tink ah getting a clearer picture.
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Sancho yuh on de fleckin' ball dread!! I am once again VERY proud of you for pursuing principle and not getting happy with what yuh get fuh yuhself and yuh padnahs. Let's push to find where that money went. This malignant cancer must be cut out with radical surgery before it spreads and takes over the WHOLE football body. Press on soldyah!!
How is pursuing the debt owed to the players... to the point of winding down the TTFA going to lead to an investigation and discovery of where the $200 million went? Can you or anyone else championing this quixotic 'cause' explain that?
Shaka Hislop should be be spoke person of this cause because he has been able to articulate the issue clearly without any abrasive emotion. He was very cool and calm and was able to discuss it without seeming angry but just made me ask questions and want the same answers he wants. Something Sancho (no offense ) has NEVER been able to do for me. Well done Shaka.
Shaka ent finish yet... it have more in the pestle ;)
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Sancho yuh on de fleckin' ball dread!! I am once again VERY proud of you for pursuing principle and not getting happy with what yuh get fuh yuhself and yuh padnahs. Let's push to find where that money went. This malignant cancer must be cut out with radical surgery before it spreads and takes over the WHOLE football body. Press on soldyah!!
How is pursuing the debt owed to the players... to the point of winding down the TTFA going to lead to an investigation and discovery of where the $200 million went? Can you or anyone else championing this quixotic 'cause' explain that?
As I understand it, and I'm sure you'll either agree or correct me, but if TTFA are wound up by the court, I believe that an forensic auditor would be appointed to determine where any outstanding or unaccounted for funds could be recovered and to determine if there has been any mismanagement of funds, criminal or otherwise. I believe that only TTFA can actually pursue their representatives who may have pilfered their money. It would appear that the only way this will happen is through the winding up of TTFA. I fail to comprehend why this is a quixotic cause when the whole country is currently up in arms about the corruption in LifeSport. The mismanagement of taxpayers millions should be of paramount concern. There were people here who criticised the players for being greedy or impatient or worse. Well now the elephant in the room has been removed, surely this crusade is worthy of support by all T&T football supporters.
Shaka Hislop should be be spoke person of this cause because he has been able to articulate the issue clearly without any abrasive emotion. He was very cool and calm and was able to discuss it without seeming angry but just made me ask questions and want the same answers he wants. Something Sancho (no offense ) has NEVER been able to do for me. Well done Shaka.
Shaka ent finish yet... it have more in the pestle ;)
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As I understand it, and I'm sure you'll either agree or correct me, but if TTFA are wound up by the court, I believe that an forensic auditor would be appointed to determine where any outstanding or unaccounted for funds could be recovered and to determine if there has been any mismanagement of funds, criminal or otherwise. I believe that only TTFA can actually pursue their representatives who may have pilfered their money. It would appear that the only way this will happen is through the winding up of TTFA. I fail to comprehend why this is a quixotic cause when the whole country is currently up in arms about the corruption in LifeSport. The mismanagement of taxpayers millions should be of paramount concern. There were people here who criticised the players for being greedy or impatient or worse. Well now the elephant in the room has been removed, surely this crusade is worthy of support by all T&T football supporters.
1. Can you, Brent, Townley or any other associated party point to a court precedent where a TnT court has paid for forensic accounting at all... let alone in a situation that involves a dispute between private parties?
2. If the issue is the 'pilfering' of government/public funds, then the cause of action belongs to the GoRTT. How come nobody is haranguing the Government for not conducting an audit or going after their benefactor the thief?
3. What does this have to do with LifeSport? Seriously? The GoRTT just handed over near $2 million USD of taxpayer money to yuh friends... no question asked. Even Townley and all skeptical of touching it... but not the players. Sancho was described as "emotional" upon getting the money from Santa Kams. Did he say "no" or question the propriety of this gift/loan of public monies? Did anybody say that this gross and obvious "mismanagement of taxpayers millions should be of paramount concern" as you put it? Did the public have any say? Was there even Parliamentary debate? But of course... this was never about the money, right.
4. This is "quixotic" because anyone reading between the lines can see that this pursuit of 'justice' in searching for missing funds is mere pretext to the real purpose of all this agitation by Sancho... which is complete overhauling of the TTFA, where he would stand to be a prime benefactor should any vacuum in TnT football arise.
5. Unrelated to anything that you said... but since we talking about 'elephant in the room' and elaborating on "quixotic"... Sancho should think twice about any aspirations for replacing the TTFA as the officially recognized footballing body in TnT. FIFA is unlikely to be accommodating to any such overtures. But of course, nobody can deny him his right to try.
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Sancho: No date yet for payment
By Andrew Gioannetti (Guardian).
Former national defender, Brent Sancho, the spokesman for the 13 2006 World Cup players locked in a legal battle with the T&T Football Association (TTFA) said he was unsure when the US$1.3 million (TT$7.8m) offered by the Government to settle the bonus dispute will be paid.
Speaking to the Guardian yesterday, Sancho said he has not yet discussed the timing of the payment offered by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar, but plans on doing so when she returns to T&T. Persad-Bissessar is currently on a private visit to Brazil for the World Cup.
“We haven’t dealt with that (time frame) as yet. When the Prime Minister returns then we will have to discuss it,” Sancho said.
On Monday, before she departed for Brazil to witness the World Cup semifinal contest between the host and Germany, Persad-Bissessar announced at a media conference at the Diplomatic Centre in St Ann’s, that the Government will foot the bill for the outstanding US$1.3 million owed to the players by the TTFA for their part in revenue earned by the then T&T Football Federation for the team’s historic qualification for 2006 World Cup in Germany.
Following a settlement by the court of arbitration, the players were paid US$1.7 million out of US$3 million. Due to the TTFA’s failure to meet specified payment dates, Sancho recently threatened to “wind up” the local governing body for football.
On Monday, the same day she left for Brazil, Persad-Bissessar announced that, while under no legal obligation, she consulted with members of Cabinet including Attorney General Anand Ramlogan and the Minister of Finance Larry Howai, where an agreement was reached to pay the Soca Warriors the balance of US$1.3 million owed to them.
According to Howai, the funds will be taken from the Ministry of Sport’s budgetary allocation.
“On the eve of the FIFA World Cup semifinals, I think it is appropriate that we honour these players and settle their long outstanding battle for the payments due them.
“Let us move beyond the grievances and rekindle the spirit of togetherness and patriotism engendered by such a historic moment,” Persad-Bissessar said.
However, Sancho revealed that he, along with the players, would continue to pursue the TTFA in an attempt to uncover the “actual” revenue earned from the 2006 World Cup qualifying and plans on using the released funds as a “platform” to do so.
“What we’re doing is trying to pursue the person or those responsible. It is not (for) the monetary gain. The persons responsible should be held to account. This a matter of principle, transparency and accountability. They have to repay what was stolen, the $200 million,” Sancho said.
He said that the money paid to the players by the Government would be returned to taxpayers if the players are successful in its pursuit of the TTFA
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As I understand it, and I'm sure you'll either agree or correct me, but if TTFA are wound up by the court, I believe that an forensic auditor would be appointed to determine where any outstanding or unaccounted for funds could be recovered and to determine if there has been any mismanagement of funds, criminal or otherwise. I believe that only TTFA can actually pursue their representatives who may have pilfered their money. It would appear that the only way this will happen is through the winding up of TTFA. I fail to comprehend why this is a quixotic cause when the whole country is currently up in arms about the corruption in LifeSport. The mismanagement of taxpayers millions should be of paramount concern. There were people here who criticised the players for being greedy or impatient or worse. Well now the elephant in the room has been removed, surely this crusade is worthy of support by all T&T football supporters.
1. Can you, Brent, Townley or any other associated party point to a court precedent where a TnT court has paid for forensic accounting at all... let alone in a situation that involves a dispute between private parties?
2. If the issue is the 'pilfering' of government/public funds, then the cause of action belongs to the GoRTT. How come nobody is haranguing the Government for not conducting an audit or going after their benefactor the thief?
3. What does this have to do with LifeSport? Seriously? The GoRTT just handed over near $2 million USD of taxpayer money to yuh friends... no question asked. Even Townley and all skeptical of touching it... but not the players. Sancho was described as "emotional" upon getting the money from Santa Kams. Did he say "no" or question the propriety of this gift/loan of public monies? Did anybody say that this gross and obvious "mismanagement of taxpayers millions should be of paramount concern" as you put it? Did the public have any say? Was there even Parliamentary debate? But of course... this was never about the money, right.
4. This is "quixotic" because anyone reading between the lines can see that this pursuit of 'justice' in searching for missing funds is mere pretext to the real purpose of all this agitation by Sancho... which is complete overhauling of the TTFA, where he would stand to be a prime benefactor should any vacuum in TnT football arise.
5. Unrelated to anything that you said... but since we talking about 'elephant in the room' and elaborating on "quixotic"... Sancho should think twice about any aspirations for replacing the TTFA as the officially recognized footballing body in TnT. FIFA is unlikely to be accommodating to any such overtures. But of course, nobody can deny him his right to try.
When one is without anything relevant to say, I guess there are two options: say nothing or spout :bs:
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As I understand it, and I'm sure you'll either agree or correct me, but if TTFA are wound up by the court, I believe that an forensic auditor would be appointed to determine where any outstanding or unaccounted for funds could be recovered and to determine if there has been any mismanagement of funds, criminal or otherwise. I believe that only TTFA can actually pursue their representatives who may have pilfered their money. It would appear that the only way this will happen is through the winding up of TTFA. I fail to comprehend why this is a quixotic cause when the whole country is currently up in arms about the corruption in LifeSport. The mismanagement of taxpayers millions should be of paramount concern. There were people here who criticised the players for being greedy or impatient or worse. Well now the elephant in the room has been removed, surely this crusade is worthy of support by all T&T football supporters.
1. Can you, Brent, Townley or any other associated party point to a court precedent where a TnT court has paid for forensic accounting at all... let alone in a situation that involves a dispute between private parties?
2. If the issue is the 'pilfering' of government/public funds, then the cause of action belongs to the GoRTT. How come nobody is haranguing the Government for not conducting an audit or going after their benefactor the thief?
3. What does this have to do with LifeSport? Seriously? The GoRTT just handed over near $2 million USD of taxpayer money to yuh friends... no question asked. Even Townley and all skeptical of touching it... but not the players. Sancho was described as "emotional" upon getting the money from Santa Kams. Did he say "no" or question the propriety of this gift/loan of public monies? Did anybody say that this gross and obvious "mismanagement of taxpayers millions should be of paramount concern" as you put it? Did the public have any say? Was there even Parliamentary debate? But of course... this was never about the money, right.
4. This is "quixotic" because anyone reading between the lines can see that this pursuit of 'justice' in searching for missing funds is mere pretext to the real purpose of all this agitation by Sancho... which is complete overhauling of the TTFA, where he would stand to be a prime benefactor should any vacuum in TnT football arise.
5. Unrelated to anything that you said... but since we talking about 'elephant in the room' and elaborating on "quixotic"... Sancho should think twice about any aspirations for replacing the TTFA as the officially recognized footballing body in TnT. FIFA is unlikely to be accommodating to any such overtures. But of course, nobody can deny him his right to try.
When one is without anything relevant to say, I guess there are two options: say nothing or spout :bs:
bakes makes some very valid points actually... dismissing it as BS is simply an easy way out...
always liked sancho as a player and i am happy the players got their money, but lets say for argument sake they lose this war in the end, then what? when will they stop? for me it seems they are doing this for themselves and not for the greater good of football.. crucifying jw is something that should be left to the govt and authorities...
sancho and the players need to tell young footballers that national football will not make them millionaires and spending mass amounts in court makes lawyers and the system richer, not the players...
make your money playing club football, national football is not the place to become a millionaire...
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You need to see Shaka interview I think. I was thinking the same way until I saw him speak on it. I want to know what Jack did with all that money. ( who are we kidding, we know what he did with it). I just wish there was a way for the football to move forward and deal with this issue at the same time or is it that the parties involved now were also part of the problems.
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You need to see Shaka interview I think. I was thinking the same way until I saw him speak on it. I want to know what Jack did with all that money. ( who are we kidding, we know what he did with it). I just wish there was a way for the football to move forward and deal with this issue at the same time or is it that the parties involved now were also part of the problems.
is any part of that 100 million owed to the players? if not, why are they playing IRS and FBI? play football and advance the game...
sancho and them should read my analysis and post on how you are voted in as ttfa president and direct their energies there and looking for the next yorke or latas domestically to develop and play national football..
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When one is without anything relevant to say, I guess there are two options: say nothing or spout :bs:
I see you are just intent on being an ass... you will henceforth be treated as such accordingly.
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bakes makes some very valid points actually... dismissing it as BS is simply an easy way out...
always liked sancho as a player and i am happy the players got their money, but lets say for argument sake they lose this war in the end, then what? when will they stop? for me it seems they are doing this for themselves and not for the greater good of football.. crucifying jw is something that should be left to the govt and authorities...
sancho and the players need to tell young footballers that national football will not make them millionaires and spending mass amounts in court makes lawyers and the system richer, not the players...
make your money playing club football, national football is not the place to become a millionaire...
I actually don't have any issue with them going after Jack, but they want to get to Jack by going thru the TTFA and eradicating them. To what end... so that Sancho could then offer himself as heir apparent to the dead TTFA? Would FIFA stand for that? In the end I could be wrong about Sancho... and I hope I am. I don't know him personally but I am good friends with his sister and he's a fella I always had the utmost respect for. This however smells like naked ambition to me, as strategically, there seems no other logical explanation for it.
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bakes makes some very valid points actually... dismissing it as BS is simply an easy way out...
always liked sancho as a player and i am happy the players got their money, but lets say for argument sake they lose this war in the end, then what? when will they stop? for me it seems they are doing this for themselves and not for the greater good of football.. crucifying jw is something that should be left to the govt and authorities...
sancho and the players need to tell young footballers that national football will not make them millionaires and spending mass amounts in court makes lawyers and the system richer, not the players...
make your money playing club football, national football is not the place to become a millionaire...
I actually don't have any issue with them going after Jack, but they want to get to Jack by going thru the TTFA and eradicating them. To what end... so that Sancho could then offer himself as heir apparent to the dead TTFA? Would FIFA stand for that? In the end I could be wrong about Sancho... and I hope I am. I don't know him personally but I am good friends with his sister and he's a fella I always had the utmost respect for. This however smells like naked ambition to me, as strategically, there seems no other logical explanation for it.
once again yuh making a lot of sense :beermug:
it's a pity other posters are equating your logic/insight to maligned statements, I can only see that happening when certain posters know certain ulterior motives of certain parties, however I am no one to judge Sancho, bc I also support him. Too bad this whole scenario seems to be smoke and mirrors, especially with the government's sudden involvement, once again jmho..
good talk otherwise bakes...
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bakes makes some very valid points actually... dismissing it as BS is simply an easy way out...
always liked sancho as a player and i am happy the players got their money, but lets say for argument sake they lose this war in the end, then what? when will they stop? for me it seems they are doing this for themselves and not for the greater good of football.. crucifying jw is something that should be left to the govt and authorities...
sancho and the players need to tell young footballers that national football will not make them millionaires and spending mass amounts in court makes lawyers and the system richer, not the players...
make your money playing club football, national football is not the place to become a millionaire...
I actually don't have any issue with them going after Jack, but they want to get to Jack by going thru the TTFA and eradicating them. To what end... so that Sancho could then offer himself as heir apparent to the dead TTFA? Would FIFA stand for that? In the end I could be wrong about Sancho... and I hope I am. I don't know him personally but I am good friends with his sister and he's a fella I always had the utmost respect for. This however smells like naked ambition to me, as strategically, there seems no other logical explanation for it.
great questions... if that is sancho's mission, then why not share it? maybe he will get the backing, backing he would never have imagined in the first place... nothing ventured nothing gained, but at what cost though?
transparency and fifa is another thing, i wish we could get an answer to that question of whether they will stand for it, maybe a revisiting of the rules... or it may take even more than that, which i assume..
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When one is without anything relevant to say, I guess there are two options: say nothing or spout :bs:
I see you are just intent on being an ass... you will henceforth be treated as such accordingly.
I rest my case.
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When one is without anything relevant to say, I guess there are two options: say nothing or spout :bs:
I see you are just intent on being an ass... you will henceforth be treated as such accordingly.
I rest my case.
clarify this for me, is any of the 100 million missing funds owed to the players?
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When one is without anything relevant to say, I guess there are two options: say nothing or spout :bs:
I see you are just intent on being an ass... you will henceforth be treated as such accordingly.
I rest my case.
clarify this for me, is any of the 100 million missing funds owed to the players?
Well, yes. That's what the whole case has been about. However, the govt has "gifted" or "loaned" the players the outstanding amount, which would be repaid if the players receive any funds via the court proceedings.
It's very interesting that many people wanted the govt to step in over the last 8 years, and there were many discussions about how FIFA won't allow govt interference. Now, a mechanism has been put in place to do just that (albeit at a time that is politically beneficial to the govt), yet people up in arms. Similarly, there has been many appeals to force complete transparency, which, again, is the aim. Supposedly intelligent people inferring that Brent Sancho is somehow conspiring to take over TTFA is ludicrous. Who, in their right mind, would want to take over that poisoned chalice. Maybe one day, but certainly not at this point.
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When one is without anything relevant to say, I guess there are two options: say nothing or spout :bs:
I see you are just intent on being an ass... you will henceforth be treated as such accordingly.
I rest my case.
clarify this for me, is any of the 100 million missing funds owed to the players?
Well, yes. That's what the whole case has been about. However, the govt has "gifted" or "loaned" the players the outstanding amount, which would be repaid if the players receive any funds via the court proceedings.
It's very interesting that many people wanted the govt to step in over the last 8 years, and there were many discussions about how FIFA won't allow govt interference. Now, a mechanism has been put in place to do just that (albeit at a time that is politically beneficial to the govt), yet people up in arms. Similarly, there has been many appeals to force complete transparency, which, again, is the aim. Supposedly intelligent people inferring that Brent Sancho is somehow conspiring to take over TTFA is ludicrous. Who, in their right mind, would want to take over that poisoned chalice. Maybe one day, but certainly not at this point.
is the repayment a stipulation by the govt or sancho has given his verbal commitment of returning the money?
what are the terms and conditions attached to that money?
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When one is without anything relevant to say, I guess there are two options: say nothing or spout :bs:
I see you are just intent on being an ass... you will henceforth be treated as such accordingly.
I rest my case.
clarify this for me, is any of the 100 million missing funds owed to the players?
Well, yes. That's what the whole case has been about. However, the govt has "gifted" or "loaned" the players the outstanding amount, which would be repaid if the players receive any funds via the court proceedings.
It's very interesting that many people wanted the govt to step in over the last 8 years, and there were many discussions about how FIFA won't allow govt interference. Now, a mechanism has been put in place to do just that (albeit at a time that is politically beneficial to the govt), yet people up in arms. Similarly, there has been many appeals to force complete transparency, which, again, is the aim. Supposedly intelligent people inferring that Brent Sancho is somehow conspiring to take over TTFA is ludicrous. Who, in their right mind, would want to take over that poisoned chalice. Maybe one day, but certainly not at this point.
is the repayment a stipulation by the govt or sancho has given his verbal commitment of returning the money?
what are the terms and conditions attached to that money?
I'm afraid I don't know the answers to those questions. But it wouldn't be Sancho, it would be the 13 as a group, maybe via something drawn up by Townley?
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When one is without anything relevant to say, I guess there are two options: say nothing or spout :bs:
I see you are just intent on being an ass... you will henceforth be treated as such accordingly.
I rest my case.
clarify this for me, is any of the 100 million missing funds owed to the players?
Well, yes. That's what the whole case has been about. However, the govt has "gifted" or "loaned" the players the outstanding amount, which would be repaid if the players receive any funds via the court proceedings.
It's very interesting that many people wanted the govt to step in over the last 8 years, and there were many discussions about how FIFA won't allow govt interference. Now, a mechanism has been put in place to do just that (albeit at a time that is politically beneficial to the govt), yet people up in arms. Similarly, there has been many appeals to force complete transparency, which, again, is the aim. Supposedly intelligent people inferring that Brent Sancho is somehow conspiring to take over TTFA is ludicrous. Who, in their right mind, would want to take over that poisoned chalice. Maybe one day, but certainly not at this point.
is the repayment a stipulation by the govt or sancho has given his verbal commitment of returning the money?
what are the terms and conditions attached to that money?
I'm afraid I don't know the answers to those questions. But it wouldn't be Sancho, it would be the 13 as a group, maybe via something drawn up by Townley?
i think the 13 should be transparent and disclose the agreement with the govt, since they are asking for our fed and others to be transparent, we don't want a double standard...
anyone could say they are paying the govt back and then the govt changes and they are not held to that verbal promise... unless it is in writing where it stipulates a loan or gift to players with no accumulated interest that must be repaid within 7 years or so of receipt of recovered funds from the 2006 campaign..
if that is not the stipulation then there are ulterior motives at play and hence why bakes questioned the motives... bc the players are being very secretive about their deal and their intentions...
TRANSPARENCY.... if the players don't disclose the details then they are also wide open for criticism and speculative comments..
money can change players, just as it did with the admin, both are susceptible to unscrupulous dealings...
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if that is not the stipulation then there are ulterior motives at play and hence why bakes questioned the motives... bc the players are being very secretive about their deal and their intentions...
Contro, I agree that there should be transparency, and I hope there will be. The players have made their intentions very clear in the press....to continue until the missing money is accounted for and if there is wrongdoing, to publicise any illegal activity and give any evidence to the relevant authorities.
A subject such as this deserves debate and there will be questions that need to be answered.
However, making assumptions and statements such as :
anyone reading between the lines can see that this pursuit of 'justice' in searching for missing funds is mere pretext to the real purpose of all this agitation by Sancho... which is complete overhauling of the TTFA, where he would stand to be a prime benefactor should any vacuum in TnT football arise.
What is the benefit to anyone of spending years just to "overhaul" TTFA? And if it happened, how would Sancho be the "prime benefactor"? This is just speculative rubbish with no factual base. However, I would say that one aim is to see a T&T football federation fully functioning and free of the taint of the Warner years.
Sancho should think twice about any aspirations for replacing the TTFA as the officially recognized footballing body in TnT. FIFA is unlikely to be accommodating to any such overtures. But of course, nobody can deny him his right to try.
See above.
Can you, Brent, Townley or any other associated party point to a court precedent where a TnT court has paid for forensic accounting at all... let alone in a situation that involves a dispute between private parties?
I'm sure that there are none (or very few) such cases. But I think we all agree that there should be. Despite quite a lot of evidence in the public forum and in the court room pointing to illegal financial transactions, the authorities to date have chosen not to investigate these transactions. And despite the case involving private parties, much of this missing money is public money, and therefore their should be involvement from the govt or authorities in some manner. Just because something has never happened, doesn't mean that it can't.
What does this have to do with LifeSport? Seriously?
The LifeSport example, as I'm sure was quite clear, was made to point out that once the govt or public or press/media seriously push for answers, action is eventually taken. This alleged missing $200 million is a larger sum than the $170 million + involved in LifeSport
The actual size of the eventual award became an issue, even with posters on this site who were originally supportive. It's worth remembering that the original offer was less than TT$6,000. Nobody had any clue how much the players were actually fighting for. In fact, the figures were discovered right here on this site. It appeared that the sums owed could be large, but nobody thought that they could beat Jack.
But at all times, the players were consistent in their call for an investigation into the missing money and that anyone involved in any illegal transactions to be prosecuted.
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In giving them this money, Govt should have put in a clause in there for the players not to go after the federation, *cough* Jack Warner.
But as Insider correctly states, this is a perfect opportunity to play the situation.
Sancho - I agree with your principle brudda,
But I assume once the TTFA comes out with all the relevant documentation to show the now empty bank accounts that were used for cash flows back in 2006.... and who had access to it, the case will be dropped against them right?
Because at that point, your point would have been made for all to see what really happened, and if the court action continues, it moves beyond the "principle" card that the players have been playing thus far....
I hope you not believing that you will ever get any money from JW. You way too smart for that. Just making your point in this case will be a victory of epic proportions.
If this is not political interference with football, I dont know what is nah..
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In giving them this money, Govt should have put in a clause in there for the players not to go after the federation, *cough* Jack Warner.
But as Insider correctly states, this is a perfect opportunity to play the situation.
Sancho - I agree with your principle brudda,
But I assume once the TTFA comes out with all the relevant documentation to show the now empty bank accounts that were used for cash flows back in 2006.... and who had access to it, the case will be dropped against them right?
Because at that point, your point would have been made for all to see what really happened, and if the court action continues, it moves beyond the "principle" card that the players have been playing thus far....
I hope you not believing that you will ever get any money from JW. You way too smart for that. Just making your point in this case will be a victory of epic proportions.
If this is not political interference with football, I dont know what is nah..
I think the whole point of this move by the govt is about the players going after TTFA and Warner. The enemy of your enemy is your friend and in this case, Tim-Kee (PNM) and Warner are not govt friendly.
TTFF were ordered by the court to pursue Mr Warner but failed to do so. This was the players strategy - hang Jack or hang yourselves. If TTFF wanted football cleaned up and to continue running football in T&T and to recover their own funds, this was their opportunity. Instead, Camps and Groden resigned and left TTFF/TTFA in the gunsights.
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Lovely state of affairs no matter how one spins it. Niceness.
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Offside in Brazil
By Sunity Maharaj (T&T Express)
Yet again, the Prime Minister has invoked the right to privacy to shield her actions from the public’s right to know. In response, a public unaccustomed to holding power to account, and uncertain about the line between private and public, has swallowed its anxieties about abuse of power and escaped into picong, masking its impotence under a revengeful humour: “The woman gone and blight Brazil, boy!”
Our lack of clarity on precisely what was wrong about the Prime Minister’s statement on the eve of leaving for World Cup Brazil with her grandson, offers a revealing insight into our general inexperience in managing power. Stumped by her assertion that “not one cent of Government’s money” was being used for the “private visit” to Brazil, few could articulate the precise discomfort swirling deep in the gut. Compounding our confusion was her strategy of payment without prejudice.
In opening up the public purse to the Soca Warriors of 2006, the Government made something akin to a private decision to settle a court-ordered debt out of court and without effect on future proceedings in court.
In the context of such generosity to the beloved Soca Warriors, quibbling over grandmotherly and Government gift-giving would seem almost churlish. That is, until the emotional gloss is stripped to the core issues of influence-peddling and mismanagement of public funds.
Right from the beginning, the Persad-Bissessar administration has sought to side-step public scrutiny on such expenditure as overseas travel, government-distributed hampers and celebratory events by explaining them away as being paid for by private money without identifying the source of funds. The implied suggestion of an impenetrable wall between private money and the actions of public officeholders, describes nothing but a fool’s reality.
All over the world, the commingling of private money and public office routinely subverts good governance. It is at the heart of influence-peddling by public officeholders who trade the power of their office for gifts through actions defined as corrupt. Especially in the context of ongoing public concerns about the power of political financiers over her Government, it is not enough for the Prime Minister to say “not one cent of Government’s money” funded her “private visit” to Brazil.
When it comes to financing the activities of high office-holders and their families, the public has a right to know who is footing the bill and not be left to assume who is paying her way. This matter is at the heart of integrity in office. The information is neither irrelevant nor private. It is a requirement of good and transparent government and properly within the scope of the public’s right to know and should not be left to suppositions by defensive minions.
Even as the PM enjoys her World Cup trip, her expedient payment of US$1.3 million (TT$8.4 million) to the Soca Warriors is already opening up a can of questions, fuelled by public distrust and a lack of clarity.
In an interview with Lasana Liburd’s wired868.com online site, not even Michael Towley, the British attorney representing the player-beneficiaries of the Prime Minister’s largesse, could contain his astonishment over her action: “That the (Prime Minister) can effectively say we are going to spend a few million dollars on the players because it will make me feel good.”
That couldn’t happen in the UK; or certainly not that quickly without a parliamentary debate about it. But that is not to say it couldn’t happen like that in other places.
“Other places”, one supposes, refers to those banana republics where a prime minister, having ignored the footballers’ pleas for almost four years, could simply wake up one morning and seize $8.4 million of taxpayers’ money to cover a ratchifee decision designed to blunt public criticism of a World Cup joyride.
Right there, in a nutshell, is the real difference between Westminster government and the West Indian variant of Westminster: public accountability.
Declaring that if he were a citizen of Trinidad and Tobago or even a football fan he would be “pissed off at this”, Towley said the Prime Minister’s action has precipitated a “messy situation because, essentially, someone else has paid (Jack) Warner’s debt and he is off the hook again”.
Almost one week after making those comments, Towley might be even more confused. As it turns out, no one knows for sure the precise implications of a decision made in the true spirit of prime ministerial vye-kie-vye. The players’ position seems to be evolving by the day, moving from gratitude, to an insistence on keeping the money and pursuing legal action to recover the US$1.3 million owed by the TTFA, to offering to return the money to the Government-once paid by the TTFA. The denouement could well be unpredictable with the candle costing more than the funeral.
While the Warriors strategise their way forward in collecting the promised sum, the rest of the society is left to deal with the larger issue of securing the defences around the treasury. Especially in this campaign season of spending to the max, the priority must be on protecting the treasury against prime ministerial whimsy and government abuse of power.
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exactly
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Sunity (not surprisingly) hit every note:
1. "Our lack of clarity on precisely what was wrong about the Prime Minister’s statement on the eve of leaving for World Cup Brazil with her grandson, offers a revealing insight into our general inexperience in managing power."
Put another way... we have a general sense that something improper afoot, but we can't quite articulate why it seems (or is) wrong... and this itself is an indictment of our inexperience as an electorate. Much more mature democracies would immediately recognize the problem and demand answers. We make jokes about it instead.
2. "In opening up the public purse to the Soca Warriors of 2006, the Government made something akin to a private decision to settle a court-ordered debt out of court and without effect on future proceedings in court."
Still trying to understand the logic and/or reasoning behind this... if the payment isn't intended to settle the matter then what is it for? Is it because the PP gov't feel sorry for the players and giving them something to make them feel better... four years after the fact?
3. "All over the world, the commingling of private money and public office routinely subverts good governance. It is at the heart of influence-peddling by public officeholders who trade the power of their office for gifts through actions defined as corrupt."
People making jail all over the world for this. Even FIFA, whose HQ is located on one of the outer rings of Hell, with one of Satan's chief minions holding court... somehow find it in themselves to punish influence-peddling. In Trinidad we does give them office and title.
4. "When it comes to financing the activities of high office-holders and their families, the public has a right to know who is footing the bill and not be left to assume who is paying her way. This matter is at the heart of integrity in office."
The Trini public doesn't seem to understand this... let alone demand accountability.
5. "“Other places”, one supposes, refers to those banana republics where a prime minister, having ignored the footballers’ pleas for almost four years, could simply wake up one morning and seize $8.4 million of taxpayers’ money to cover a ratchifee decision designed to blunt public criticism of a World Cup joyride."
I really want to laugh... except it's such a sad friggin state of affairs... and de steelband just keeps playing on.
6. "The players’ position seems to be evolving by the day, moving from gratitude, to an insistence on keeping the money and pursuing legal action to recover the US$1.3 million owed by the TTFA, to offering to return the money to the Government-once paid by the TTFA. "
No one is covering themselves in glory here... and I don't think Sancho and them appreciating the scope of the blow back. Who knows, maybe now that de honeymoon over the payment is over reality might sink in.
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Election is in the air and the Project Manager know that people dont want them so theey buying if you selling
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Yuh mean a mature democracy like this?
http://www.youtube.com/v/FY-6ltu4oAQ
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Yuh mean a mature democracy like this?
http://www.youtube.com/v/FY-6ltu4oAQ
Yes, a mature democracy like the US. You will have to try a bit harder to disprove the assertion than by pointing out the odd aberrant elected official. Now might not be a good time to mention "Jack Warner."
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I am not a believer in one size fits all policies. We expect to slice away policies implemented in America or North Korea for that fact and just paste them onto our own problems. Fact is, we dont see the countless other variables, that go into supporting a particular policy vs another.
Having said that; I'll say this to the 2006 warriors. Take your payment and keep moving. This aint derogatory. I did just call you Warriors.
This piece meal deal is the Apex, anything else, and loss begins. There is no public support for a legal venture as such; I mention this cause there'll be no public funds to fight your legal battle.(Allyuh aint even build in, how whaever allyuh recover extra, allyuh could invest it in football or youths or balls or nets) This leaves you to fund your own war-chest I assume. Even if the ATT wokkin for free, legal battles cost.
Consider.
P.S. If this happens to be the junction where many parties are converging, in their quest for a certain scalp owned by a certain Big man, then I digress. Then I say, push and push hard; expecting it aint no fake Jihad, and yuh have all Sep, Kamla, Jennings, The English FA, Pope,Obama and whoever else that fella wronged sending supplies constantly to the battlefield - then hey let the games continue.
If it aint that, you can be pouring all dat paper back into the same place where it came from and that my dear 2006 warriors, will eclipse Brasil 7-1 loss as a real loss!
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Yuh mean a mature democracy like this?
http://www.youtube.com/v/FY-6ltu4oAQ
Yes, a mature democracy like the US. You will have to try a bit harder to disprove the assertion than by pointing out the odd aberrant elected official. Now might not be a good time to mention "Jack Warner."
Isn't JW a one off?
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Isn't JW a one off?
Elan you serious? Yuh forget John O'Halloran, Carlos John and de chinee fella under the UNC, with the air conditioned dog house... is how much crooked elected officials Trinidad see? You think a US government official could proffer forged credentials and still keep a job? Or run over some woman foot with a luxury vehicle and keep on moving like nothing happen? Who paid for Kamla's house? and Ashworth Jack house in Tobago? For every one of these incidents where enough questions were NOT asked and no official inquiry commissioned... I could find you three or four examples from the US where people either loss they wuk or loss they wuk AND get prosecuted. You can't be serious in trying to even compare the two.
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In terms of the Corruption Perception index (http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/) we're one of the worst in the Caribbean, tied with Jamaica and only better than Cuba, Haiti and The Dominican Republic in 83rd place out of 177 nations measured (tied with Zambia and Liberia, for an African comparison).
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I am not a believer in one size fits all policies. We expect to slice away policies implemented in America or North Korea for that fact and just paste them onto our own problems. Fact is, we dont see the countless other variables, that go into supporting a particular policy vs another.
One size doh fit all, but wrong is wrong.
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Isn't JW a one off?
Elan you serious? Yuh forget John O'Halloran, Carlos John and de chinee fella under the UNC, with the air conditioned dog house... is how much crooked elected officials Trinidad see? You think a US government official could proffer forged credentials and still keep a job? Or run over some woman foot with a luxury vehicle and keep on moving like nothing happen? Who paid for Kamla's house? and Ashworth Jack house in Tobago? For every one of these incidents where enough questions were NOT asked and no official inquiry commissioned... I could find you three or four examples from the US where people either loss they wuk or loss they wuk AND get prosecuted. You can't be serious in trying to even compare the two.
And the only reason we know so much about Jack is because he's involved in football. Ask a man on the street about Jack and he won't remember a tenth of what he's done...and won't care enough to find out. There is the problem - the average man just doesn't care enough to hold these politicians to task.
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I am not a believer in one size fits all policies. We expect to slice away policies implemented in America or North Korea for that fact and just paste them onto our own problems. Fact is, we dont see the countless other variables, that go into supporting a particular policy vs another.
One size doh fit all, but wrong is wrong.
I concur, but in our non-utopian society, wrong is more relative; rather than just being wrong. The same wrong, does get played out like it right, until somebody say it wrong. Wrong, then, must be a state of mind and one that relies on a societies maturity.
Staking people or poking out their eyes, for reading books (acts carried out by the Catholic Church) was not deemed wrong, until some guy decided it was. Until then, it was considered a very right cause of action to battle the blasphemers.
My concern for the 2006 warriors wasn't about right and wrong but instead, I wondered if they could separate the difference between what is perceived as wrong and what they can prove is wrong. And if they have to throw their dockets in to establish this wrong and to what degree of a certain return they might imagine.
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I am not a believer in one size fits all policies. We expect to slice away policies implemented in America or North Korea for that fact and just paste them onto our own problems. Fact is, we dont see the countless other variables, that go into supporting a particular policy vs another.
One size doh fit all, but wrong is wrong.
I concur, but in our non-utopian society, wrong is more relative; rather than just being wrong. The same wrong, does get played out like it right, until somebody say it wrong. Wrong, then, must be a state of mind and one that relies on a societies maturity.
Staking people or poking out their eyes, for reading books (acts carried out by the Catholic Church) was not deemed wrong, until some guy decided it was. Until then, it was considered a very right cause of action to battle the blasphemers.
My concern for the 2006 warriors wasn't about right and wrong but instead, I wondered if they could separate the difference between what is perceived as wrong and what they can prove is wrong. And if they have to throw their dockets in to establish this wrong and to what degree of a certain return they might imagine.
Whilst not wanting to derail this thread into philosophy, you commit an equivocation fallacy by assuming perceptions of "wrong" are the same as some action actually being "wrong" (i.e. in some objective sense). Context is the key distinction here, not perception, for whether an action can be considered "wrong" in some intrinsic manner. I would still perceive these actions as wrong if I was placed in the Medieval context, and some (probably myself included) would argue that a number of acts are wrong regardless of context, although we might try to ex-post justify it.
Basically, wrong isn't a state of mind imo. We all have a concept of 'wrong', which is obviously contingent on our mind, but it points to a set of behaviours that some individuals, or groups, or societies, or the whole human race believe best to be avoided as they harm ourselves in some internal or societal manner.
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Isn't JW a one off?
Elan you serious? Yuh forget John O'Halloran, Carlos John and de chinee fella under the UNC, with the air conditioned dog house... is how much crooked elected officials Trinidad see? You think a US government official could proffer forged credentials and still keep a job? Or run over some woman foot with a luxury vehicle and keep on moving like nothing happen? Who paid for Kamla's house? and Ashworth Jack house in Tobago? For every one of these incidents where enough questions were NOT asked and no official inquiry commissioned... I could find you three or four examples from the US where people either loss they wuk or loss they wuk AND get prosecuted. You can't be serious in trying to even compare the two.
Good talking Bakes.
Man in T&T could thief millions and billions and still keep they work.
T&T public rail up they mouth for de first week and then everybody forget.
And this happening since Eric Williams days.
Kamla is now de best of de best when it comes to having a corrupted minitry.
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I am not a believer in one size fits all policies. We expect to slice away policies implemented in America or North Korea for that fact and just paste them onto our own problems. Fact is, we dont see the countless other variables, that go into supporting a particular policy vs another.
One size doh fit all, but wrong is wrong.
I concur, but in our non-utopian society, wrong is more relative; rather than just being wrong. The same wrong, does get played out like it right, until somebody say it wrong. Wrong, then, must be a state of mind and one that relies on a societies maturity.
Staking people or poking out their eyes, for reading books (acts carried out by the Catholic Church) was not deemed wrong, until some guy decided it was. Until then, it was considered a very right cause of action to battle the blasphemers.
My concern for the 2006 warriors wasn't about right and wrong but instead, I wondered if they could separate the difference between what is perceived as wrong and what they can prove is wrong. And if they have to throw their dockets in to establish this wrong and to what degree of a certain return they might imagine.
Whilst not wanting to derail this thread into philosophy, you commit an equivocation fallacy by assuming perceptions of "wrong" are the same as some action actually being "wrong" (i.e. in some objective sense). Context is the key distinction here, not perception, for whether an action can be considered "wrong" in some intrinsic manner. I would still perceive these actions as wrong if I was placed in the Medieval context, and some (probably myself included) would argue that a number of acts are wrong regardless of context, although we might try to ex-post justify it.
Basically, wrong isn't a state of mind imo. We all have a concept of 'wrong', which is obviously contingent on our mind, but it points to a set of behaviours that some individuals, or groups, or societies, or the whole human race believe best to be avoided as they harm ourselves in some internal or societal manner.
Touche!
I'll be brief - (in my attempt also to not derail de thread) Knowing right and wrong minus the use of perception, as in (hypothesis testing) requires rich realistic sensory information processing abilities, the likes of which I don't have because of my untrained & uncontrollable over-compensating brain which cannot be trusted - (in an Absolute way). Check out "The brain & compensation". I'm not the only sufferer!
As such, I/we tend to rely heavily on societal environmental norms, to develop our own reality; our own taboos. IMO, Whilst context, like perception, can be used to define, they're both still governed by external dynamics. Sometimes, things seem absolute in the absence of a external Catalyst.
Wrong is Wrong is wrong - and it is Absolute; but the only Absolute I'd dare put my head on a block for, is one that can withstand all external pressures (catalysts). If it holds, I'll say its wrong and consider such things as wrong or Right!
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Isn't JW a one off?
Elan you serious? Yuh forget John O'Halloran, Carlos John and de chinee fella under the UNC, with the air conditioned dog house... is how much crooked elected officials Trinidad see? You think a US government official could proffer forged credentials and still keep a job? Or run over some woman foot with a luxury vehicle and keep on moving like nothing happen? Who paid for Kamla's house? and Ashworth Jack house in Tobago? For every one of these incidents where enough questions were NOT asked and no official inquiry commissioned... I could find you three or four examples from the US where people either loss they wuk or loss they wuk AND get prosecuted. You can't be serious in trying to even compare the two.
Bakes you serious?
Is the USA you talking about. We could name call all day and give example of how naive the democracy is if you can call it that.
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I am not a believer in one size fits all policies. We expect to slice away policies implemented in America or North Korea for that fact and just paste them onto our own problems. Fact is, we dont see the countless other variables, that go into supporting a particular policy vs another.
One size doh fit all, but wrong is wrong.
I concur, but in our non-utopian society, wrong is more relative; rather than just being wrong. The same wrong, does get played out like it right, until somebody say it wrong. Wrong, then, must be a state of mind and one that relies on a societies maturity.
Staking people or poking out their eyes, for reading books (acts carried out by the Catholic Church) was not deemed wrong, until some guy decided it was. Until then, it was considered a very right cause of action to battle the blasphemers.
My concern for the 2006 warriors wasn't about right and wrong but instead, I wondered if they could separate the difference between what is perceived as wrong and what they can prove is wrong. And if they have to throw their dockets in to establish this wrong and to what degree of a certain return they might imagine.
Whilst not wanting to derail this thread into philosophy, you commit an equivocation fallacy by assuming perceptions of "wrong" are the same as some action actually being "wrong" (i.e. in some objective sense). Context is the key distinction here, not perception, for whether an action can be considered "wrong" in some intrinsic manner. I would still perceive these actions as wrong if I was placed in the Medieval context, and some (probably myself included) would argue that a number of acts are wrong regardless of context, although we might try to ex-post justify it.
Basically, wrong isn't a state of mind imo. We all have a concept of 'wrong', which is obviously contingent on our mind, but it points to a set of behaviours that some individuals, or groups, or societies, or the whole human race believe best to be avoided as they harm ourselves in some internal or societal manner.
Touche!
I'll be brief - (in my attempt also to not derail de thread) Knowing right and wrong minus the use of perception, as in (hypothesis testing) requires rich realistic sensory information processing abilities, the likes of which I don't have because of my untrained & uncontrollable over-compensating brain which cannot be trusted - (in an Absolute way). Check out "The brain & compensation". I'm not the only sufferer!
As such, I/we tend to rely heavily on societal environmental norms, to develop our own reality; our own taboos. IMO, Whilst context, like perception, can be used to define, they're both still governed by external dynamics. Sometimes, things seem absolute in the absence of a external Catalyst.
Wrong is Wrong is wrong - and it is Absolute; but the only Absolute I'd dare put my head on a block for, is one that can withstand all external pressures (catalysts). If it holds, I'll say its wrong and consider such things as wrong or Right!
:) (Not derailing, just wanted to let you know I read and found it interesting)
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Bakes you serious?
Is the USA you talking about. We could name call all day and give example of how naive the democracy is if you can call it that.
You just on shit now. Whether there are "naive" segments of the population who electing idiot Tea Baggers like Cruz and Bachmann to Congress, that is beside the point. The issue has to do with mature democracies, meaning an electorate which is sophisticated and involved enough to understand the responsibilities of elected office, and know how to keep their elected officials accountable. There is a long history of such activism in the US. Is only now we seeing groups like Reform TT and the Highway movement gaining any kind of public traction. We simply not in the same sentence as the US when it comes to public accountability. You just trying to argue and defend nonsense.
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Trust me i do understand u guys,it just seems like everybody here on the same page and that's wonderfull at least you all agree on something.
Having said that try not to fault me for being sympathetic to T&T Football,i come from a Football family which i started,i've got two brothers that played for St Marys and Maple,one was assist to Alvin as Snr mens national team Coach,i have a brother that played for Jabloteh,my daughter played for Mucurapo/T&T,my son Barataria Snr,cousin Liana Hinds national Women,Kevin Molino brother of my cousin Kevon Cooper.This is my last post,thanks and good-bye.
Oh good....ah was wondering when you would shut up. :pissedoff:
JW....I miss you... :violin:...yuh killing me with this term of endearment. Grody....Ollie....why did you have to leave Mr. Cooper behind? He misses you. :yapping:
Trust me i do understand u guys,it just seems like everybody here on the same page and that's wonderfull at least you all agree on something.
Having said that try not to fault me for being sympathetic to T&T Football,i come from a Football family which i started,i've got two brothers that played for St Marys and Maple,one was assist to Alvin as Snr mens national team Coach,i have a brother that played for Jabloteh,my daughter played for Mucurapo/T&T,my son Barataria Snr,cousin Liana Hinds national Women,Kevin Molino brother of my cousin Kevon Cooper.This is my last post,thanks and good-bye.
Oh good....ah was wondering when you would shut up. :pissedoff:
JW....I miss you... :violin:...yuh killing me with this term of endearment. Grody....Ollie....why did you have to leave Mr. Cooper behind? He misses you. :yapping:Trust me i do understand u guys,it just seems like everybody here on the same page and that's wonderfull at least you all agree on something.
Having said that try not to fault me for being sympathetic to T&T Football,i come from a Football family which i started,i've got two brothers that played for St Marys and Maple,one was assist to Alvin as Snr mens national team Coach,i have a brother that played for Jabloteh,my daughter played for Mucurapo/T&T,my son Barataria Snr,cousin Liana Hinds national Women,Kevin Molino brother of my cousin Kevon Cooper.This is my last post,thanks and good-bye.
Trust me i do understand u guys,it just seems like everybody here on the same page and that's wonderfull at least you all agree on something.
Having said that try not to fault me for being sympathetic to T&T Football,i come from a Football family which i started,i've got two brothers that played for St Marys and Maple,one was assist to Alvin as Snr mens national team Coach,i have a brother that played for Jabloteh,my daughter played for Mucurapo/T&T,my son Barataria Snr,cousin Liana Hinds national Women,Kevin Molino brother of my cousin Kevon Cooper.This is my last post,thanks and good-bye.
How ironic, I believe the above was Coops "last post."
Mods, I couldn't link it on the "Coops pass away thread."
VB
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Ex-Warriors collect 2006 World Cup bonuses
By SASHA HARRINANAN (Newsday).
Cheques for half a million dollars each were yesterday presented by Prime Minister, Kamla Persad-Bissessar, to seven of the 13 Soca Warriors who are owed money by the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association (TTFA).
The seven who received cheques yesterday were Brent Sancho, Stern John, Avery John, David Atiba Charles, Cyd Gray, Aurtis Whitley and Anthony Wolfe. Arrangements were being made for the remaining six to collect their cheques “in due course.”
The six, who are working abroad and thus unable to come home for their money, are Cornell Glen, Shaka Hislop, Kenwyne Jones, Kelvin Jack, Collin Samuel and Evans Wise.
The presentation ceremony was held yesterday afternoon at Parliament, Tower D, International Waterfront Centre, Port-of-Spain.
Addressing reporters, the Prime Minister recalled that back in July, she “gave a commitment on behalf of the Government that we’ll pay the sum of TT $7.5 million dollars to our (2006) Soca Warriors. The Government is under no legal obligation in this regard but we recognise that this payment is necessary to assist the players and to address their very legitimate grievance and stress.”
Persad-Bissessar also reiterated that the payment was made “without prejudice to any legal rights and remedies which the players might have against the TTFF for the recovery of the balance of their judgment debt.” Speaking on behalf of the players, Sancho said he was “a little bit lost for words because it’s been a very long, arduous, battle. We will continue our pursuit and again, we want to thank you Madam Prime Minister for the gift.”
The former national defender said the payment was “without a doubt, a renewal” of the group’s commitment to “find the persons responsible for missing funds and...hopefully, bring whatever money is missing, back to the coffers of the Federation (TTFA).”
Sancho later joked with Newsday, “I feel like I just won Miss Universe” before revealing he intends to put some of the money in the bank and to invest the rest “wisely.” Ex-Soca Warriors forward Stern John had a similar response, saying he too intends to invest his money. “I’ve (invested) in a lot of property before, so I’m going to continue and put it to good use.”
“Like Brent said,” he added, “it’s been a long journey, a long eight years. All of the guys are excited to get the money, so they could use it to do well for themselves and for their family.”
Yesterday’s cheque presentation comes eight years after the football players were promised a bonus for their performance at the 2006 FIFA World Cup in Germany. The failure to pay that bonus eventually led to a legal battle. Some players decided to settle out of court but the 13 who received money yesterday were unwavering in their legal battle.
According to the judgment in subsequent arbitration proceedings, the players were entitled to 50 percent of the net profits TTFF derived from “the Road to Germany 2006 campaign.”
The sum was settled at US$3 million, but to date the TTFF had only paid the players US$1.7 million.
Persad-Bissessar noted that, “The players have now agreed to continue their legal action against the TTFF and to reimburse the Government should they recover any further monies pursuant to the judgment.”
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I can't help but be happy for the individual players... but there is something perversely wrong about the Government's involvement in all of this. If the Goverment really wanted to assist in any meaningful way, the Goverment would either assist the TTFA (by footing the bill, or lending services of Government attorneys) with the litigation.
OR
...the Government itself could undertake an investigation, and hopefully prosecution, of the circumstances under which GOVERNMENT monies were misappropriated. But nah, Kamla and them just interested in pappyshow. Mark my words, watch this make the rounds on the election platform next September. And Sancho and them like some willing muppets just riding shotgun to this f**king charade... grinning like some Sambos with dey checks.
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I can't help but be happy for the individual players... but there is something perversely wrong about the Government's involvement in all of this. If the Goverment really wanted to assist in any meaningful way, the Goverment would either assist the TTFA (by footing the bill, or lending services of Government attorneys) with the litigation.
OR
...the Government itself could undertake an investigation, and hopefully prosecution, of the circumstances under which GOVERNMENT monies were misappropriated. But nah, Kamla and them just interested in pappyshow. Mark my words, watch this make the rounds on the election platform next September. And Sancho and them like some willing muppets just riding shotgun to this f**king charade... grinning like some Sambos with dey checks.
Purely from a finance point of view, I think the players are just happy to get the money they fought for. Of course, it's far more than they dreamed of eight years ago. All they knew then was that they were due more than TT6000. If Jack had made a decent offer right then, say TT$50k, this would have gone away. His continued dishonesty about the figures has probably resulted in the players receiving more than they were entitled to.
There is no doubt in my mind that the government are plying politics here. They cannot deny that there was wrongdoing, but they also cannot investigate the man whom they made Minister of National Security while they had possession of the facts of this case. But, they would love nothing more than to see Jack tied up in court or on the front pages concerning this case in the build up to the election. After all, stealing from the players and football in general is not the best portfolio on which to build an election campaign.
The government can always claim that they don't want to interfere in an ongoing court matter, so they get what they want while staying at a distance. Some people may feel that the players are puppets of the govt. Others may see it exactly opposite; the players have there money whether they win or lose the case and get a chance at recovering the TTFF funds in the process.
On a personal level, for me, yesterday was a proud day. 8 years ago almost to the day, Ian Cox called me to arrange to meet with him, Kelvin Jack and Brent Sancho. They explained their situation and asked if the P.F.A. could help. The P.F.A. wanted to stay clear as they didn't want to risk upsetting Jack during their 2018 WC bid. So it was really just 5 of us : Sancho, Jack, Shaka, Mike Townley and I who pushed the case forward. While I was never due to receive any money, I have benefited in many other ways through the friendships I developed and my links with Trinidad & Tobago. So, sitting in the PMs office watching the guys receive their cheques was very satisfying.
But, it's not the end. It's only half time!!
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Mark my words, watch this make the rounds on the election platform next September.
Boy that horse done bolt out the stable already. Back in July when the announcement was first made, the next day during a WC game, the ads touting the payment to the players started to run.......everybody sit down watching de TV was like WTF??!!
So while I real happy dem fellas FINALLY get dey money.............ah cringing at the fact that this government only going and use it to pappyshow for elections.......talk about a bittersweet moment.........:puking: :puking:
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Mark my words, watch this make the rounds on the election platform next September.
Boy that horse done bolt out the stable already. Back in July when the announcement was first made, the next day during a WC game, the ads touting the payment to the players started to run.......everybody sit down watching de TV was like WTF??!!
So while I real happy dem fellas FINALLY get dey money.............ah cringing at the fact that this government only going and use it to pappyshow for elections.......talk about a bittersweet moment.........:puking: :puking:
It definitely takes the good feeling away from the situation. I happy for the fellas, not so much Sancho... nothing against him, but he doing well. It's some of the other fellas, some of whom were quietly struggling, is them I most happy for. I just worry about the cost, and whether they realized they were being used as political pawns... and if they saw that coming and still went ahead with it, then it's hard to overlook that they're just looking out for themselves at the expense of the public (who footing the bill).
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Rewind to this article:
http://ttproleague.com/index.php/tt-pro-league-news/national-team-news/1941-government-to-ttfa-s-rescue-but-thirteen-2006-world-cup-players-vow-to-battle-on
Government to TTFA’s rescue but thirteen 2006 World Cup players vow to battle on
Tuesday 8 July 2014
On Monday, eight years after they were promised a bonus for their appearance at the 2006 FIFA World Cup in Germany, 13 members of the Soca Warriors were relieved that they will be paid the outstanding balance of US$1.3 million.
Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar, made the announcement at the Diplomatic Centre, St Ann’s, and in the presence of seven of the players, Brent Sancho, Cyd Gray, David Atiba Charles, Stern John, Cornell Glen, Anton Wolfe, and Aurtis Whitley.
“I have given instructions to the Minister of Finance (Larry Howai) to make provision for the outstanding US$1.3 million to be made available to these heroes,” Persad-Bissessar said. “This payment is to be made without prejudice to any rights and remedies already accrued, or, which may accrue to the Soca Warriors.”
While Government of Trinidad and Tobago was under no legal obligation to make any payment to the players, added, “We are not unmindful of the long and protracted legal battles waged by these football heroes of ours, and the situation today is that the players are still owed and entitled to a payment from an entity in the TTFF (Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation) that is unlikely to be in a position to pay.”
She said that in 2006, the Soca Warriors joined the world’s best in Germany, and “for eight months, from qualification in Bahrain in November 2005 to the end of the World Cup in June 2006 our nation soared with pride with the efforts of our team.”
“It was a moment that unified us like never before. They healed every national wound, bridged every divide, and brought us together across all boundaries, there were no political, social, religious or ethnic differences, we acclaimed ourselves and embraced each other in a celebration of genuine patriotic pride,” said Persad-Bissessar.
In a report by the Trinidad Newsday, TTFA (Trinidad and Tobago Football Association) president Raymond Tim Kee is quoted as saying he was “extremely pleased that Government has come through now. We requested that assistance so that football can breathe somewhat.”
The TTFA, he said began discussions with the Office of the Prime Minister for Government to pay the outstanding balance about six months ago and followed up in writing. He said they last met two weeks ago.
Asked whether the payment means that the TTFA does not owe the players anymore, Tim Kee said, “That is what we have been requesting, that Government pay on behalf of the TTFA.”
On assuming the TTFA presidency, he said, he acknowledged that the former players were owed the bonus promised by the old dispensation. After an issue was made out of it, he said, “We paid them what we could. We sought help from CONCACAF.”
Having run bankrupt, he said the TTFA sought Government’s assistance.
Meanwhile Brent Sancho, speaking on behalf of the 13 players, said he was overwhelmed and Government’s decision meant “more than any of us can describe.”
The 13 T&T players: Brent Sancho, Stern John, Cyd Gray, David Atiba Charles, Cornell Glen, Anthony Wolfe, Aurtis Whitley, Kenwyne Jones, Evans Wise, Collin Samuel, Shaka Hislop, Kelvin Jack and Avery John.
Sancho recalled that when they returned to Piarco from Germany they were greeted as heroes.
However, the failure to honour a promised bonus marred all that went on before and a legal battle ensued. The judgement in the arbitration that followed was that the players were entitled to 50 percent of the net profits TTFF derived from “the Road to Germany 2006 campaign”.
“We didn’t expect asking for what we were promised to be met with eight years of humiliation, torment, blacklisting and even in some cases career loss,” Sancho said.
While many had turned their backs on them and ignored their pleas, he said they had finally been heard.
Expressing thanks to the team members who endured the legal battles over the years and to Persad-Bissessar and her Government, Sancho said, “We recognise that the government has no legal obligation to assist us, yet chose to do so through this gesture.”
Asked whether the 2006 Soca Warriors will drop their legal battles, now that Government has paid the outstanding debt, Sancho said, “While this money is important for us, we still feel there is unfinished business. We intend to push on. We have suffered for a very, very long time.”
The legal battle will continue, he said, in the hope that they can repay Government.
Former FIFA vice-president and former TTFA special advisor Jack Warner.
Former FIFA vice-president and former TTFA special advisor Jack Warner.
In an immediate reaction, former FIFA vice-president and former special advisor to the TTFF, Jack Warner has appealed to Persad-Bissessar to come to the aid of former president of the TTFF Oliver Camps, who he claims is in debt and stands to lose his home.
In a release on Monday, following Government’s $1.3 million payout to 13 members of the 2006 Soca Warriors, Warner called on the Prime Minister to intervene and save Camps’ home. Camps was president at the time of T&T’s World Cup qualification for the 2006 World Cup in Germany.
“If the Prime Minister really wants to demonstrate that this is truly benevolence and not public relations to lift the flagging image of her Minister of Sport, then I wish to advise her to go further and save the home of Oliver Camps,” Warner stated.
“This group of footballers who played three matches in the 2006 World Cup in Germany and who never scored a goal nor win a match there and who now stand to benefit from the Prime Minister’s benevolent gesture received $20 million dollars from the Patrick Manning administration, $7 million from FIFA, $4 million from the TTFF, $6 million from Jack Warner through the courts of Trinidad and Tobago and now $1.3 million USD from the People’s Partnership Government; a total sum of close to $50 million dollars and this excludes gifts from private organisations like Clico and others,” claimed Warner.
He stated Camps too was in need of financial help.
Camps, he stated, served football with distinction for over 50 years as Trinidad and Tobago Football Federation (TTFF) president and team manager and was the “most successful football manager ever”, taking the Soca Warriors to the 2006 Germany World Cup.
Warner stated that Camps signed a promissory note of US$480,000 on behalf of the TTFF in order to procure the services of Wim Risenberg as coach of the national team.
“The TTFF has been unable to raise the money and now Al Roberts’ firm - father of the Minister of Sport, is now moving to levy on this senior citizen,” stated Warner.
“Mr. Camps’ home Madam Prime Minister is now threatened. If he cannot raise the money he will lose it by September 2014, if not before. In this regard I am therefore asking the Prime Minister to be as benevolent to Mr. Camps as she has been to these footballers and save the home of this senior citizen,” stated Warner.
On the money Government will be paying the Soca Warriors, Warner wished the team members well and stated that he hoped this would finally bring closure to the matter.
“It is my sincere wish that this is the end of this story and that the furniture and the archival material, which the TTFA lost when this team of footballers levied on the TTFF, will now be returned to it,” he added.