Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Sam on September 10, 2008, 06:31:37 AM
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Serious fellas. I never taught I would see the day when we have so many local players playing on the starting team in important world cup qualifiers. And this is the first time I feel safe with that.
12 local players and one unattached.
Players like Birchall, Stren and Yorke not even here and I still feel confident, even though they are a must. And I hope the TTFF dont neglet them.
Scotland cant even make de starting line up. Carlos getting sub at half time, Roberts not even called, etc etc....
Before, a foreign based could have walk into a local side with ease.
I may not like Maturana's tactics, but I do like the way he is developing our local players.
Now dont get me wrong, Birchall, Yorke, Stern and Kelvin Jack is a must. Sancho and Spann have to earn it.
And some of the locals I am not sure about, like Gyasi Joyce....
But so far, locals isn't doing to bad.
I dont want to get to excited, but we'll see. Time will tell.....
A solid local core is always good to have, thats for sure...
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Time will tell
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If Maturana get at least 1 point in the next 2 games he has greatly improved the standard of play from the level that we made under Wim, especially given the fact that he is doing it with "unknowns" 3 goals from Daniel for example justifies leaving out stern because stern only asset is goals so if you still getting the goals and you have a man who can run too then bonus.
However I still think if we picked some more foreign based versus the local the result will be better.
He getting good results from the locals but he need to find a way to get even better results with some more foreign based
No way no how you could say that Tousaint will contribute more to the game than scotland I will give you the argument that Glen will bring more speed and work rate than stern so if we going with one man up front he is a better choice.
But scotland need to be given a run, especially since he is a leading goal scorer in a top league. both last season and the season before
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well I like the fact that more local talent is being used, I see it this way, If u have a well oiled, competent local outfit, then the foreign based player become bonus adds, would it be good to field a team that doesn't attract the panic that the exclusion of stern, birchie, roberts and yorke seems to be causing. the way I see it WCQ is the perfect acid test to find such players, risky though it might be. when else will there be a sterner test in this region <sarcasm>the digicel cup ??? :P</sarcasm>
as for the Stern John argument, credit him for his goals but, he is to easily made redundant by more technically minded teams as a "stand and fire attacker" he is still the worst reader of the offside trap I have ever seen
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For the stern argument ..to class him simply as a stand and fire striker would be an insult to his abilities...admittedly in a lone striker role cornell would seem to be the easier choice..for certain teams play physical ball stern would be an asset...he can hold up and distribute the ball well with defenders on his back and he is also more of an aerial threat... his finishing is still far superior to most of our strikers..
As for the overall argument..i was telling a pardnah that i actually doh mind maturana..he has helped unearth some talents...daniel, hyland..re-establish leon in the side...and i think his style of play better suit to local players than the foreign based players who play in europe/uk leagues...
the main reason ppl fighting down the new names is bcuz they don't know what they capable of and stuck in the past memories of what X did in x year for us...not realising that there's in point time when we have to move on...
but to rule out the foreign based is silly olot of them still are our best players..ppl said carlos din play well on saturday...i don't agree but wolfe did considerably less and it can be argued that carlos' experience and versatility may have been missed after we scored to go ahead goal...
daniel i still to really impose himself on a game despite his three goals..
yorke touch still looked better than the majority of the team..but the real question is if his good touches enhance the team enough to compensate for the lack of pace he has now that can deplete or midfield?
analyse the pros and cons of the team..then think about maturana selection...
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Is not local talent.....it is trying to squeeze lemon juice out ah Corneal's Alcon lemons....so dat dey could build caps, and ultimately secure an international contract dat he will be a major beneficiary
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check dis...me and Small mag was watching the WCQ with TnT vz Guatemals from the last campaign ( 3-2)
we watch it before the match Sat 6th sept to build some vibes nah...
check what he point out...11 foriegn based start... and 3 foriegn based came on...
new times...all the best tnt...come on
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and we won 3-2 ?
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@arazi the "stand and fire" statement was meant to highlight a major flaw specific to his striking abilities i.e. "offsides" not his general play, should have phrased it better, my bad, but still, he is has trouble with "thrird man release" setups and generally is best as a "direct" targetman so doesn't it stand to reason that paying closer attention to the action of all around him and not just the person delivering the ball should be part of his mindset, even after all these years. he tally should be easily closer to the eighties, if he would only learn
....................there is playing it close and then there is being 3 whole feet behind the last defender and not realising it ???
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the fact that carlos still jumbee daniel for free kick etc tell me it have a kinda superiority issue that maturana tryin to shake off. I sure foreign based realizin that they will get drop or bench. hopefully men learn to humble deyself, and we build a real TEAM first, cuz as small as we iz, we ent goin and make it on we individual 'starz'.
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I am not discounting the contribution of the foreign pros, but here's the thing
<scenario>
digicel cup local based team hastily put together, not given as much attention, doesn't play that well but gets the gold cup spot anyway and then is pretty much discarded in favor of the foreign based pros</scenario>
how does that build a usable local talent pool, tell me?, I'm about breaking the dependency syndrome, about not having to put up with the Roy Keanes of the world unless it it's absolutely necessary, what wrong with that ???
and we won 3-2 ?
save for one.....and we all know who that is ;D that was the same team that struggled in the previuos matches so then, your point is what.....exactly ???
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The majority of the team are playing in the local league now but plenty of those were foreign-based players at some point or the other (Glen, Theobald, Cyd, Toussaint) because they had the quality to get contracts abroad. Also some of the younger ones are close to securing overseas contracts (Daniel, Hyland) so the line between who is local and who is foreign-based is not so clear cut.
At the end of the day, the best of the local players will go and play overseas, with a few exceptions like Whitely.
That said I am impressed with the level of play that PFL players such as Philips, Leon, Daniel, Thomas etc. have been able to display against quality int'l opponents. The gap between PFL level and Concacaf int'l level seems to be shrinking.
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The majority of the team are playing in the local league now but plenty of those were foreign-based players at some point or the other (Glen, Theobald, Cyd, Toussaint) because they had the quality to get contracts abroad. Also some of the younger ones are close to securing overseas contracts (Daniel, Hyland) so the line between who is local and who is foreign-based is not so clear cut.
At the end of the day, the best of the local players will go and play overseas, with a few exceptions like Whitely.
That said I am impressed with the level of play that PFL players such as Philips, Leon, Daniel, Thomasetc. have been able to display against quality int'l opponents. The gap between PFL level and Concacaf int'l level seems to be shrinking.
Even he was in the MLS for a couple years.
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my point is we won 3-2 we didnt draw 1-1 so I dont get the point about the team being 11 foreign based and as pointed out above a lot of players played abroad previously.
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Serious fellas. I never taught I would see the day when we have so many local players playing on the starting team in important world cup qualifiers. And this is the first time I feel safe with that.
12 local players and one unattached.
Players like Birchall, Stren and Yorke not even here and I still feel confident, even though they are a must. And I hope the TTFF dont neglet them.
Scotland cant even make de starting line up. Carlos getting sub at half time, Roberts not even called, etc etc....
Before, a foreign based could have walk into a local side with ease.
I may not like Maturana's tactics, but I do like the way he is developing our local players.
Now dont get me wrong, Birchall, Yorke, Stern and Kelvin Jack is a must. Sancho and Spann have to earn it.
And some of the locals I am not sure about, like Gyasi Joyce....
But so far, locals isn't doing to bad.
I dont want to get to excited, but we'll see. Time will tell.....
A solid local core is always good to have, thats for sure...
I hear yuh breds it's nice to see the confidence building, but we getting test by one of the stongest teams in the region and we have a porous backline when men running at them so if the defense don't hold against the American onslaught of Donovon, Ching, Dempsey, Mathis and Beadsley in the first 20 min we can kiss this one goodbye
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Anyone have a perspective of how the local league compares to the USL? I started thinking about this with the arrival of Peter Byers at Montreal. Some of this 'play where' stuff is just a smokescreen for other elements that impact our players.
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my point is we won 3-2 we didnt draw 1-1 so I dont get the point about the team being 11 foreign based and as pointed out above a lot of players played abroad previously.
But didn't the same team that beat Guat 3-2 get 5-1 in guatemala city
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my point is we won 3-2 we didnt draw 1-1 so I dont get the point about the team being 11 foreign based and as pointed out above a lot of players played abroad previously.
The point is these are playing locally because they are deamed not good enough to play abroad,where ever they played before rejected them,by playing in the local league they are improving themselves so they are locals and lets give the local league credit for getting our players to the standard they are,these guys went through a rough time from the critiques but somebody that knows Football saw something in them,some might say they geeting pick for caps but we can say that about all our players they all got pick for caps.These guys are good,it's just that they are raw talent and needs the experience,i think we will thank Pacho down the road for this.
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ley we deal wid what we have nuh man and support we guys.. Cuba go help we against Guatemala dem 2 point we lost against dem will hurst badd!!!!!!!!!!1 We Must Beat USA at home if we do not pick up any points against USA 2day..
war
good luck warriors
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Serious fellas. I never taught I would see the day when we have so many local players playing on the starting team in important world cup qualifiers. And this is the first time I feel safe with that.
12 local players and one unattached.
Players like Birchall, Stren and Yorke not even here and I still feel confident, even though they are a must. And I hope the TTFF dont neglet them.
Scotland cant even make de starting line up. Carlos getting sub at half time, Roberts not even called, etc etc....
Before, a foreign based could have walk into a local side with ease.
I may not like Maturana's tactics, but I do like the way he is developing our local players.
Now dont get me wrong, Birchall, Yorke, Stern and Kelvin Jack is a must. Sancho and Spann have to earn it.
And some of the locals I am not sure about, like Gyasi Joyce....
But so far, locals isn't doing to bad.
I dont want to get to excited, but we'll see. Time will tell.....
A solid local core is always good to have, thats for sure...
I agree it will be interested to see the out come of this match...because T&T with mostly local and the U.S. mostly overseas players...wow...
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all I am saying is that these comparisons are useless between local based and foreign based especially when so much of the team is foreign based or previously foreign based.
This "local" team has not played any team that we havent consistently beaten in the past and as to the above about losing 5-1 we havent gone there yet !
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Yeah but who was d coach when we get 5-1. D FVL argument pass boring now play d best players even if dey is little greenmen from mars but dey have a TNT passport. Doh drop man because he disruptive etc who was more disruptive than Rodman but he has bout nuff NBA rings because d coaches knew how 2 get d best out ah them.
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someone please list the players on the starting 11 who have not played overseas or are about to (so hence will be foreign based )
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Yeah but who was d coach when we get 5-1. D FVL argument pass boring now play d best players even if dey is little greenmen from mars but dey have a TNT passport. Doh drop man because he disruptive etc who was more disruptive than Rodman but he has bout nuff NBA rings because d coaches knew how 2 get d best out ah them.
so... um........ what then by your estimation defines the "best players" because it seems to u it's someone not playin' here at the time :o. And the Rodman example don't fit that was a big ego among big egos, we are trying to build a confident bunch of up and comers and they need all the positive vibes they can get, and if there are elements that are detrimental to that process, then I say put them in place, because they should know better
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Yeah but who was d coach when we get 5-1. D FVL argument pass boring now play d best players even if dey is little greenmen from mars but dey have a TNT passport. Doh drop man because he disruptive etc who was more disruptive than Rodman but he has bout nuff NBA rings because d coaches knew how 2 get d best out ah them.
so... um........ what then by your estimation defines the "best players" because it seems to u it's someone not playin' here at the time :o. And the Rodman example don't fit that was a big ego among big egos, we are trying to build a confident bunch of up and comers and they need all the positive vibes they can get, and if there are elements that are detrimental to that process, then I say put them in place, because they should know better
I think the "best players" refers to players like Stern (Proven goal scorer for us at this level), should at least be able to make the bench; Birchall (was good enough to START against Cuba, earned no doubt from his two "assists" in the Haiti friendly a week earlier), Trent Noel - undoubtedly one of the BEST midfield players (foreign or local), playing (Captain) of the team sitting on the top of the local PFL and I can go on and on. Yes, the coach is getting good results, BUT some of us believe the results could be BETTER if we had greater depth on the squad. Also IMHO the Coach got his tactics WRONG on some occasions (eg starting with a 3-5-2 against Bermuda in our first WCQ and then bringing on Kerry Baptiste instead of more defensive-minded Telesford or Julius James). She's also talking about Theobald getting drop for MONTHS because he passed an arm-band and valuable players like Patterson and Collin Samuel being discarded after failing to show up for a friendly...how can this be justifiable when the Coaching Staff keeps a player (Hyland) withOUT verifying whether he was suspended for 1 or 2 games thus wasting the space for one of the above-mentioned players). Lastly, football is a TEAM game, and if the starting line up is a constantly revolving it's difficult to build team chemistry. Having said all of this, I am still here in Chicago supporting whoever is on the field tonight...I'd just like to see us fielding the STRONGEST possible AVAILABLE 11 with good back-up on the bench, and win, lose or draw I can live with the result! Let's Go T&T!!!
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Anyone have a perspective of how the local league compares to the USL? I started thinking about this with the arrival of Peter Byers at Montreal. Some of this 'play where' stuff is just a smokescreen for other elements that impact our players.
USL? After the beating Joe Piblic put on the Revolution, we barely regard the MLS as significant comparison
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From the very start, I thought Maturana knows what he is doing and now I still think so. I see men have a lot of bad reviews about Andre Toussaint but in my personal opinion I think he is a decent player and deserves to be on the team. If is one thing that I could say negative about him is that he should work harder on the defensive part of his game. Anyhow Maturana is a breath of fresh air in T&T football. I have seen so many experiences of nepotism and favouritism hindering our football. Those two factors alone account for the loss of so many of our local talent. Talented players never make it !!! in Trinidad football big boys usually rule. Foreign based is always better, Dont come training they starting, not performing and somebody doing better, they still starting etc etc...By not recalling players like Stern and leaving out Birchall and Roberts he is setting a precident. He doesnt care where you play or who you play for , if the player doesnt fit in to the team he is building, he is not going to be called up. Supporters could get vex and say all kinda ting and that is what I admire...So far the younger local players have done well in my book, they eager to play and play well...USA is a tough one but I figure we could steal the points....Go T&T
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From the very start, I thought Maturana knows what he is doing and now I still think so. I see men have a lot of bad reviews about Andre Toussaint but in my personal opinion I think he is a decent player and deserves to be on the team. If is one thing that I could say negative about him is that he should work harder on the defensive part of his game. Anyhow Maturana is a breath of fresh air in T&T football. I have seen so many experiences of nepotism and favouritism hindering our football. Those two factors alone account for the loss of so many of our local talent. Talented players never make it !!! in Trinidad football big boys usually rule. Foreign based is always better, Dont come training they starting, not performing and somebody doing better, they still starting etc etc...By not recalling players like Stern and leaving out Birchall and Roberts he is setting a precident. He doesnt care where you play or who you play for , if the player doesnt fit in to the team he is building, he is not going to be called up. Supporters could get vex and say all kinda ting and that is what I admire...So far the younger local players have done well in my book, they eager to play and play well...USA is a tough one but I figure we could steal the points....Go T&T
He setting ah precedent yes. That even if yuh produce on gameday yuh ass will still get drop.
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What havin an ego 2 wit being disruptive. U could b a hound and b disruptive. D best team mean all avialable players being called 2 camp and d esteem coach look at dem and c what dey have 2 offer. Then u pick yuh best team dat eh happen man gettin call back then bein discarded because dey disruptive we talent pool so large dat we can discard men just so.
All yuh glad d locals playin just remember dey might just b foreign in a while then what? Well Nuff all who happy wit man producing and gettin drop next time dey do dey perform review and dey get a poor rating after dey wuk like a dog doh study it yuh boss know what he doin
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check dis...me and Small mag was watching the WCQ with TnT vz Guatemals from the last campaign ( 3-2)
we watch it before the match Sat 6th sept to build some vibes nah...
check what he point out...11 foriegn based start... and 3 foriegn based came on...
new times...all the best tnt...come on
Whitley wasn't in the startin' line up?
I thought he was the one consistent local in the first XI in that campaign...
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you know guys T&T never beat USA..... that alone the players should used to motivate themself to win this match
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We never beat them in WC games. We have beaten them twice before.
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BooSA going to loose this game....
Go Soca Warriors :wavetowel:
Big Up!
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check dis...me and Small mag was watching the WCQ with TnT vz Guatemals from the last campaign ( 3-2)
we watch it before the match Sat 6th sept to build some vibes nah...
check what he point out...11 foriegn based start... and 3 foriegn based came on...
new times...all the best tnt...come on
Whitley wasn't in the startin' line up?
I thought he was the one consistent local in the first XI in that campaign...
I went and search for the old T&T vs Guat thread from September 3rd 2005.
According to FIFA this is the Line-ups...
Line-Ups:
TRIÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â GUA
Kelvin Jack       Miguel Klee
Carlos Edwards    Gustavo Cabrera
Christopher Birchall Selvin Ponciano
Aurtis Whitley     Angel Sanabria
Marvin Andrews    Freddy Garcia
Stern John       Julio Giron
Dwight Yorke     Fredy Thompson
Avery John       Guillermo Ramirez
Brent Sancho     Carlos Ruiz
Silvio Spann       Gonzalo Romero
Russell Latapy      Elmer Ponciano
Bench
TRIÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â GUA
Shaka Hislop       Paulo Motta
David Charles      Victor Hernandez
Densill Theobold    Rigoberto Gomez
Jason Scotland     Carlos Figueroa
Ian Cox           Mynor Davila
Scott Sealy       Juan Carlos Plata
Cyd Gray          Edwin Villatoro
Ah reading that thread and ah gettin goosebumps!
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Yeah but who was d coach when we get 5-1. D FVL argument pass boring now play d best players even if dey is little greenmen from mars but dey have a TNT passport. Doh drop man because he disruptive etc who was more disruptive than Rodman but he has bout nuff NBA rings because d coaches knew how 2 get d best out ah them.
You ain't even have to reach quite by Rodman. Jordan himself was allegedly one of de biggest locker room bullies around. De players around him had to man up.
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What havin an ego 2 wit being disruptive. U could b a hound and b disruptive. D best team mean all avialable players being called 2 camp and d esteem coach look at dem and c what dey have 2 offer. Then u pick yuh best team dat eh happen man gettin call back then bein discarded because dey disruptive we talent pool so large dat we can discard men just so.
point taken, but the vibe being sent out on the board by some is way too negative, at the end of the day don't u think that the guy's that got selected deserve some benefit of the doubt, I don't think the talent pool is as slim as some make it out to be, it's raw perhaps but, it exists. with proper molding, who knows what could happen?
As I said earlier it is risky but, in my opinion in this region, there no better test than the WCQ or maybe the gold cup, but apart from that top flight friendlies don't come our way......... atleast not often enough
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All yuh does get on like is only Trinis does second guess dey coach. We pool eh big enough for not pickin man for nonesense. If yuh eh comin 2 trainin and u is Ronaldo or d dihio I go drop yuh but find a way 2 gel ah team it have nuff peeps avialable who have dem skills.
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oh whitley started..ok sorry...ah guess we was real vibesing then
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How dis thread holding up?
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so said so done
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my point is we won 3-2 we didnt draw 1-1 so I dont get the point about the team being 11 foreign based and as pointed out above a lot of players played abroad previously.
But didn't the same team that beat Guat 3-2 get 5-1 in guatemala city
Guat vs TNT
Shaka HISLOP (GK), Nigel HENRY, Brent SANCHO, Leslie FITZPATRICK (-48'), Angus EVE, Carlos EDWARDS, Dennis LAWRENCE, Stern JOHN, Kenwyne JONES (-68'), Anton PIERRE, Dwight YORKE
Substitute(s) Clayton INCE (GK), Marlon ROJAS, Atiba CHARLES, Silvio SPANN, Hector SAM (+48'), David NAKHID (+68'), Nigel PIERRE
T&T vs Guat
Kelvin JACK (GK), Avery JOHN, Marvin ANDREWS, Brent SANCHO, Christopher BIRCHALL, Aurtis WHITLEY (-45'), Russell LATAPY, Carlos EDWARDS, Stern JOHN, Silvio SPANN (-73'), Dwight YORKE
Substitute(s): Shaka HISLOP (GK), Atiba CHARLES, Scott SEALY (+73'), Cyd GRAY, Ian COX (+88'), Densill THEOBALD, Jason SCOTLAND (+45')(-88')
In Jack for Hislop, Avery for Henry, Dog for Anton Pierre, Spann for KJ, Whitley for Tallest Birchall for Tiger, Latas for Eve,
Subs Scotland, Sealy and Cox for Sam + Nakhid
Edwards, Sancho, Stern, Dwight played both games
Essentially the whole back line (KJ was defending back then i believe) and central midfield changed.
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how allyuh likin dem "locals" now?
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Serious fellas. I never taught I would see the day when we have so many local players playing on the starting team in important world cup qualifiers. And this is the first time I feel safe with that.
12 local players and one unattached.
Players like Birchall, Stren and Yorke not even here and I still feel confident, even though they are a must. And I hope the TTFF dont neglet them.
Scotland cant even make de starting line up. Carlos getting sub at half time, Roberts not even called, etc etc....
Before, a foreign based could have walk into a local side with ease.
I may not like Maturana's tactics, but I do like the way he is developing our local players.
Now dont get me wrong, Birchall, Yorke, Stern and Kelvin Jack is a must. Sancho and Spann have to earn it.
And some of the locals I am not sure about, like Gyasi Joyce....
But so far, locals isn't doing to bad.
I dont want to get to excited, but we'll see. Time will tell.....
A solid local core is always good to have, thats for sure...
I hear yuh breds it's nice to see the confidence building, but we getting test by one of the stongest teams in the region and we have a porous backline when men running at them so if the defense don't hold against the American onslaught of Donovon, Ching, Dempsey, Mathis and Beadsley in the first 20 min we can kiss this one goodbye
What did I tell you all, if we don't command the first 20 we dead, so said so done, we were down 2 goals inside 20 min
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how allyuh likin dem "locals" now?
Aye find yuh own wound tuh go rub salt in nuh >:(