Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Andre on January 08, 2009, 08:21:24 AM
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i say do yuh thing freddie.
big up!
Sevilla's French-born Malian international striker Frederic Kanoute displayed a t-shirt with the word "Palestine" in various languages during his side's 2-1 Spanish Cup over Deportivo Coruna in the Copa del Rey / Spanish Cup.
(http://www.typicallyspanish.com/spain/uploads/2/kanoutepalestine.jpg)
http://digg.com/soccer/Sevilla_s_Freddie_Kanoute_Shows_Support_for_Palestine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrA3rq0H_HA
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I think Freddie should keep his politics to himself, and just play football.
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ah man is ah man...so if brudda man feel de need too so be it, nobody forcin him n it en hurtin no one
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the brother knows that it is an effective way to make his statement.
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ah man is ah man...so if brudda man feel de need too so be it, nobody forcin him n it en hurtin no one
that's not necessarily true. he should keep those beliefs away from sport, especially in Europe where antisemitism is a real problem and on the rise. he is a public figure and a de facto role model, and there are youths who will feel violent acts against Spain's jews are more legit when someone like Fredi wears a shirt that reads Palestine without clarifying his exact position on the affair.
A spanish player wearing a shirt with a swastika could just be showing his beliefs, and without saying a word he is not directly hurting anyone. But there is a danger in that it gives the far right a public voice, a legitimate 'spokesperson' and for the real yahoos..just a lil more brass to go out and do something stupid. Fredi's actions could feel the same way to some jews in Europe
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ah man is ah man...so if brudda man feel de need too so be it, nobody forcin him n it en hurtin no one
that's not necessarily true. he should keep those beliefs away from sport, especially in Europe where antisemitism is a real problem and on the rise. he is a public figure and a de facto role model, and there are youths who will feel violent acts against Spain's jews are more legit when someone like Fredi wears a shirt that reads Palestine without clarifying his exact position on the affair.
A spanish player wearing a shirt with a swastika could just be showing his beliefs, and without saying a word he is not directly hurting anyone. But there is a danger in that it gives the far right a public voice, a legitimate 'spokesperson' and for the real yahoos..just a lil more brass to go out and do something stupid. Fredi's actions could feel the same way to some jews in Europe
i dont think anti-semitism is a problem in europe. what is described as anti-semitism is usually anti-israeli sentiment.
If Kanoute is against hundreds of innocents being bombed he is entitled to have his say. Thats not comparable to wearing a swastika
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ah man is ah man...so if brudda man feel de need too so be it, nobody forcin him n it en hurtin no one
that's not necessarily true. he should keep those beliefs away from sport, especially in Europe where antisemitism is a real problem and on the rise. he is a public figure and a de facto role model, and there are youths who will feel violent acts against Spain's jews are more legit when someone like Fredi wears a shirt that reads Palestine without clarifying his exact position on the affair.
A spanish player wearing a shirt with a swastika could just be showing his beliefs, and without saying a word he is not directly hurting anyone. But there is a danger in that it gives the far right a public voice, a legitimate 'spokesperson' and for the real yahoos..just a lil more brass to go out and do something stupid. Fredi's actions could feel the same way to some jews in Europe
i dont think anti-semitism is a problem in europe. what is described as anti-semitism is usually anti-israeli sentiment.
If Kanoute is against hundreds of innocents being bombed he is entitled to have his say. Thats not comparable to wearing a swastika
not that I think the issue in Palestine is as simple as innocent people being bombed, but I agree...wearing a swastika is not comparable.....to most sensible people, which is exactly my point..I didn't mean for it to seem like a direct comparison. Notice who I mentioned would misinterpret his shirt..far right idiots and yahoos. and maybe misguided kids. I also think Jews will obviously have a more sensitive point of view on the subject, since they would feel most directly affected.
i also think anti-semitism is a big problem in Europe and on the rise....besides..lots of Europeans will tell you racism is not a big problem in Europe as well.
peace
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ah man is ah man...so if brudda man feel de need too so be it, nobody forcin him n it en hurtin no one
that's not necessarily true. he should keep those beliefs away from sport, especially in Europe where antisemitism is a real problem and on the rise. he is a public figure and a de facto role model, and there are youths who will feel violent acts against Spain's jews are more legit when someone like Fredi wears a shirt that reads Palestine without clarifying his exact position on the affair.
A spanish player wearing a shirt with a swastika could just be showing his beliefs, and without saying a word he is not directly hurting anyone. But there is a danger in that it gives the far right a public voice, a legitimate 'spokesperson' and for the real yahoos..just a lil more brass to go out and do something stupid. Fredi's actions could feel the same way to some jews in Europe
He is expressing his support for the plight of the Palestinians. Nothing else. Hats off to him. If someone were to read 'anti-semetic' sentiments into his T-Shirt then that person is an idiot.
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ah man is ah man...so if brudda man feel de need too so be it, nobody forcin him n it en hurtin no one
that's not necessarily true. he should keep those beliefs away from sport, especially in Europe where antisemitism is a real problem and on the rise. he is a public figure and a de facto role model, and there are youths who will feel violent acts against Spain's jews are more legit when someone like Fredi wears a shirt that reads Palestine without clarifying his exact position on the affair.
A spanish player wearing a shirt with a swastika could just be showing his beliefs, and without saying a word he is not directly hurting anyone. But there is a danger in that it gives the far right a public voice, a legitimate 'spokesperson' and for the real yahoos..just a lil more brass to go out and do something stupid. Fredi's actions could feel the same way to some jews in Europe
i dont think anti-semitism is a problem in europe. what is described as anti-semitism is usually anti-israeli sentiment.
If Kanoute is against hundreds of innocents being bombed he is entitled to have his say. Thats not comparable to wearing a swastika
Exactly.
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ah man is ah man...so if brudda man feel de need too so be it, nobody forcin him n it en hurtin no one
that's not necessarily true. he should keep those beliefs away from sport, especially in Europe where antisemitism is a real problem and on the rise. he is a public figure and a de facto role model, and there are youths who will feel violent acts against Spain's jews are more legit when someone like Fredi wears a shirt that reads Palestine without clarifying his exact position on the affair.
A spanish player wearing a shirt with a swastika could just be showing his beliefs, and without saying a word he is not directly hurting anyone. But there is a danger in that it gives the far right a public voice, a legitimate 'spokesperson' and for the real yahoos..just a lil more brass to go out and do something stupid. Fredi's actions could feel the same way to some jews in Europe
He is expressing his support for the plight of the Palestinians. Nothing else. Hats off to him. If someone were to read 'anti-semetic' sentiments into his T-Shirt then that person is an idiot.
yeah Toppa. seen. dat is my point though. the world is full of idiots and I think Kanoute has a responsibility to not encourage them. I'd rather he held a press conference and spoke his mind and put his feeling into words to make things clear and not something that the yahoos out there could interpret in whatever way makes them feel empowered to be the true idiots they are.
But this is not a forum to really discuss this intelligently. Somthing will always be missing in what we want to say, or at least what i want to say.
So respect to you and Ryan.
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ah man is ah man...so if brudda man feel de need too so be it, nobody forcin him n it en hurtin no one
that's not necessarily true. he should keep those beliefs away from sport, especially in Europe where antisemitism is a real problem and on the rise. he is a public figure and a de facto role model, and there are youths who will feel violent acts against Spain's jews are more legit when someone like Fredi wears a shirt that reads Palestine without clarifying his exact position on the affair.
A spanish player wearing a shirt with a swastika could just be showing his beliefs, and without saying a word he is not directly hurting anyone. But there is a danger in that it gives the far right a public voice, a legitimate 'spokesperson' and for the real yahoos..just a lil more brass to go out and do something stupid. Fredi's actions could feel the same way to some jews in Europe
i dont think anti-semitism is a problem in europe. what is described as anti-semitism is usually anti-israeli sentiment.
If Kanoute is against hundreds of innocents being bombed he is entitled to have his say. Thats not comparable to wearing a swastika
Exactly.[/b]
Well then Freddy should wear a shirt showing support for Israel also. They were being bombed everyday and not a fool spoke before. Its amazing how the retards are out in numbers now.
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respect man...yuh cant leave it to the UN
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(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e384/Nummer9/Peace4Palestine.jpg)
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ah man is ah man...so if brudda man feel de need too so be it, nobody forcin him n it en hurtin no one
that's not necessarily true. he should keep those beliefs away from sport, especially in Europe where antisemitism is a real problem and on the rise. he is a public figure and a de facto role model, and there are youths who will feel violent acts against Spain's jews are more legit when someone like Fredi wears a shirt that reads Palestine without clarifying his exact position on the affair.
A spanish player wearing a shirt with a swastika could just be showing his beliefs, and without saying a word he is not directly hurting anyone. But there is a danger in that it gives the far right a public voice, a legitimate 'spokesperson' and for the real yahoos..just a lil more brass to go out and do something stupid. Fredi's actions could feel the same way to some jews in Europe
i dont think anti-semitism is a problem in europe. what is described as anti-semitism is usually anti-israeli sentiment.
If Kanoute is against hundreds of innocents being bombed he is entitled to have his say. Thats not comparable to wearing a swastika
Exactly.[/b]
Well then Freddy should wear a shirt showing support for Israel also. They were being bombed everyday and not a fool spoke before. Its amazing how the retards are out in numbers now.
yeah they were bombed and pelted with rocks everyday from an area that has been under seige by the said Israelis for years now.
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Kanoute can do what he pleases, ONCE it not in sighting a riot.
Remember 1968 Olympics when US track and field stars protest black inequality by raising a black gloved fist.
If someone dictating when you eat,get water, bath, have electricity for years, and you have rockets, you'll fire the shit at them. Hamas won a democratic election and because US and Israel don't like it, so they blockade Gaza.
If US staving your family and say NO Carnival in 2009 in Trinidad you'll do the same. The bling bling we all buy in the Big Apple, the Israeli get them South Africa back in the days of apartheid and today in the Congo,and the rest of Africa.
Happy New Year fellas.
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He is expressing his support for the plight of the Palestinians. Nothing else. Hats off to him. If someone were to read 'anti-semetic' sentiments into his T-Shirt then that person is an idiot.
Wearing a T-shirt with the word Palestine is more of an advertisement of political affiliation than support for anything. What he did does nothing for the plight of Palestinians. It won't stop the violence, it doesn't soothe the pain of mourning families, it won't mend any of the ill-feelings between the warring factions, and it doesn't simplify what is a complicated situation in Gazza- all it does is imply a political affiliation which without explanation probably serves more to fuel ill feelings on the other side of the fence, than it does to lend support to anyone.... What if he didn't score? Where would the "support" be?
All Kanoute did was exploit a public forum to advertise a political affiliation in a time and place where it was unnecessary, and could easily be misinterpreted....
To each his own of course, and my guess is that his gesture was well-intended, but my view is that there is a time and place for everything and there's no room for that oversimplified partisan political advertisment in football....none.
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Wearing a T-shirt with the word Palestine is more of an advertisement of political affiliation than support for anything. What he did does nothing for the plight of Palestinians. It won't stop the violence,....
is there really a difference between expressing political solidarity and showing support?
Speaking out on the matter has to be considered an action in itself. Only a handful of people have the ability to have their actions directly influence the the ebb and flow of the violence and it's side-effects so I don't know if that's really a good criterion for 'supporting'.
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(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e384/Nummer9/Peace4Palestine.jpg)
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
Peace and Freedom from oppression...
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Wearing a T-shirt with the word Palestine is more of an advertisement of political affiliation than support for anything. What he did does nothing for the plight of Palestinians. It won't stop the violence,....
is there really a difference between expressing political solidarity and showing support?
Speaking out on the matter has to be considered an action in itself. Only a handful of people have the ability to have their actions directly influence the the ebb and flow of the violence and it's side-effects so I don't know if that's really a good criterion for 'supporting'.
yeah I agree it's his way of showing support, and of course he's relatively powerless to real tangible support (I was just making a point).....because to me at the end of the day, while I recognize his gesture was most likely well intended, my point was that what he may have effectively done more of, is fuel ill feelings on the other side of the fence by what is effectively nothing more than a political advertisement....rather than a rendering of any real support.
end of day I don't think it's a huge deal, I just prefer to see football free of politics- what if Yossi Benayoun was on the other side of the half-line? what would that say about Freddie's sportsmanship?.....my point: leave the divides of race, religion and politics off the field- the only divide is the the line in the middle and the only colour is that of your uniform....in spite of that, I can understand why some are cool with it...what I don't understand is how it's impossible for those who agree with his gesture to see the flip side.
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He is expressing his support for the plight of the Palestinians. Nothing else. Hats off to him. If someone were to read 'anti-semetic' sentiments into his T-Shirt then that person is an idiot.
Wearing a T-shirt with the word Palestine is more of an advertisement of political affiliation than support for anything. What he did does nothing for the plight of Palestinians. It won't stop the violence, it doesn't soothe the pain of mourning families, it won't mend any of the ill-feelings between the warring factions, and it doesn't simplify what is a complicated situation in Gazza- all it does is imply a political affiliation which without explanation probably serves more to fuel ill feelings on the other side of the fence, than it does to lend support to anyone.... What if he didn't score? Where would the "support" be?
All Kanoute did was exploit a public forum to advertise a political affiliation in a time and place where it was unnecessary, and could easily be misinterpreted....
To each his own of course, and my guess is that his gesture was well-intended, but my view is that there is a time and place for everything and there's no room for that oversimplified partisan political advertisment in football....none.
Oh puh-lease. If during the Rwanda genocide a footballer had the words Rwanda written on his T-shirt would that have been a show of political affiliation? Or would it have been a means of highlighting what was going on there?
If he had the word Hamas written on his shirt then that would have been a show of political affiliation.
The man is just trying to draw attention to the massacre of the Palestinians. I applaud him.
F*ck politics. People dying.
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He is expressing his support for the plight of the Palestinians. Nothing else. Hats off to him. If someone were to read 'anti-semetic' sentiments into his T-Shirt then that person is an idiot.
Wearing a T-shirt with the word Palestine is more of an advertisement of political affiliation than support for anything. What he did does nothing for the plight of Palestinians. It won't stop the violence, it doesn't soothe the pain of mourning families, it won't mend any of the ill-feelings between the warring factions, and it doesn't simplify what is a complicated situation in Gazza- all it does is imply a political affiliation which without explanation probably serves more to fuel ill feelings on the other side of the fence, than it does to lend support to anyone.... What if he didn't score? Where would the "support" be?
All Kanoute did was exploit a public forum to advertise a political affiliation in a time and place where it was unnecessary, and could easily be misinterpreted....
To each his own of course, and my guess is that his gesture was well-intended, but my view is that there is a time and place for everything and there's no room for that oversimplified partisan political advertisment in football....none.
Oh puh-lease. If during the Rwanda genocide a footballer had the words Rwanda written on his T-shirt would that have been a show of political affiliation? Or would it have been a means of highlighting what was going on there?
If he had the word Hamas written on his shirt then that would have been a show of political affiliation.
The man is just trying to draw attention to the massacre of the Palestinians. I applaud him.
F*ck politics. People dying.
...and I applaud you.
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He is expressing his support for the plight of the Palestinians. Nothing else. Hats off to him. If someone were to read 'anti-semetic' sentiments into his T-Shirt then that person is an idiot.
Wearing a T-shirt with the word Palestine is more of an advertisement of political affiliation than support for anything. What he did does nothing for the plight of Palestinians. It won't stop the violence, it doesn't soothe the pain of mourning families, it won't mend any of the ill-feelings between the warring factions, and it doesn't simplify what is a complicated situation in Gazza- all it does is imply a political affiliation which without explanation probably serves more to fuel ill feelings on the other side of the fence, than it does to lend support to anyone.... What if he didn't score? Where would the "support" be?
All Kanoute did was exploit a public forum to advertise a political affiliation in a time and place where it was unnecessary, and could easily be misinterpreted....
To each his own of course, and my guess is that his gesture was well-intended, but my view is that there is a time and place for everything and there's no room for that oversimplified partisan political advertisment in football....none.
Oh puh-lease. If during the Rwanda genocide a footballer had the words Rwanda written on his T-shirt would that have been a show of political affiliation? Or would it have been a means of highlighting what was going on there?
If he had the word Hamas written on his shirt then that would have been a show of political affiliation.
The man is just trying to draw attention to the massacre of the Palestinians. I applaud him.
F*ck politics. People dying.
...and I applaud you.
Noone disagrees that Fredi should show support. Noone disagrees that everyone should be aware of what is going on in Palestine. Some of just disagree on how he chose to show it. Lewwe doh argue about a serious and complicated topic like that on a football forum nah. Truss meh, the misunderstanding done already start and we will just end up feeling like we on complete opposite sides of the spectrum. Watch how one word on a t-shirt could fuel about 10 pages of heated discussion between educated people...and it go get heated and everyone will soon forget what the initial differences were. It go end up being who 'for' Palestine, and who 'for' Israel. Watch and see. I eh worried about kicker ad Toppa tho' ..dem does butt heads regular than kiss and make up when Real Madrid win on de weekend. Altho' the way Barca playing dey mite be under a lil stress :devil: But seriously, I think the discussion really is..should he have worn that t-shirt at a football game and what was the desired effect and could there be unwanted consequences. At least let us stick to football and talk Palestine and Israel on the general topics board.
Just ah humble suggestion.
Cheers to all
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Like Bolt's chest beating ..what may have been a simple action , can be interpreted by others n many other more complex ways. I dont think football wants to get sucked in to that family feud that has gone on since Ishmael was sidelined by Issac.
The UN are having trouble resolving the situation and an all out war could result soon ...it will come eventually though ..and the best we can hope for now is that it does not come now.
Sport has walked the thin line before and we have seen instances where politics have sidelined the Olympic competition ....we want to go South Africa to see T&T and the World Cup ...not to be bombarded by propanganda statements !
If kanoute's action goes unpunished , the ball would not be the only thing that will be kicked around. Could you imagine if jews start walking with T shirts marked Israel and palestinians the same,, to football games all over the world ? You could forget taking your wife and children to any game anywhere !!
No freddy ..ill advised and Spain must tell yolu that ...just like the did at the olympics with bolt...
We dont want that here !!!!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IhaL1ighcw
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Oh puh-lease. If during the Rwanda genocide a footballer had the words Rwanda written on his T-shirt would that have been a show of political affiliation? Or would it have been a means of highlighting what was going on there?
puuuuuuuuuuuh-leeeeeeeeeease ;D What's going on in Gaza and genocide in Rwanda are quite different... Even so, like I say leave politics off the field. In the case of Rwanda, I'd say the same... To me it's not about the cause, it's about the platform...The football field is not a political platform, nor is it a platform for anything else other than football- that's my overarching point...sorry if you can't see it.
If he had the word Hamas written on his shirt then that would have been a show of political affiliation.
See? right there- there will be differences in interpretation....
The man is just trying to draw attention to the massacre of the Palestinians. I applaud him.
F*ck politics. People dying.
If yuh had a clue what you were talking about you'd know that what is going on is alot more complex than a "massacre of Palestinians"... but as Filho said, this ain't the message board for this topic....
I understand your point... I think mine is as easily understandable... what does that say about your level of understanding? :devil:
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Oh puh-lease. If during the Rwanda genocide a footballer had the words Rwanda written on his T-shirt would that have been a show of political affiliation? Or would it have been a means of highlighting what was going on there?
puuuuuuuuuuuh-leeeeeeeeeease ;D What's going on in Gaza and genocide in Rwanda are quite different... Even so, like I say leave politics off the field. In the case of Rwanda, I'd say the same... To me it's not about the cause, it's about the platform...The football field is not a political platform, nor is it a platform for anything else other than football- that's my overarching point...sorry if you can't see it.
If he had the word Hamas written on his shirt then that would have been a show of political affiliation.
See? right there- there will be differences in interpretation....
The man is just trying to draw attention to the massacre of the Palestinians. I applaud him.
F*ck politics. People dying.
If yuh had a clue what you were talking about you'd know that what is going on is alot more complex than a "massacre of Palestinians"... but as Filho said, this ain't the message board for this topic....
I understand your point... I think mine is as easily understandable... what does that say about your level of understanding? :devil:
Understanding and rejecting.
But as Filho asked, I'd gladly end the discussion before it gets into a whole Palestine v Israel because that's where it'll head.
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Symbolism need not be accompanied by an explanation. It has never required substantiation, and never will ... hence the notion.
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Well he was fined by the Committee but a lot of fans lauded the gesture.
The Palentinian embassy in Spain sent their thanks and the Israeli embassy saw nothing wrong with it, saying it would not incite violence.
So there!
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Well he was fined by the Committee but a lot of fans lauded the gesture.
The Palentinian embassy in Spain sent their thanks and the Israeli embassy saw nothing wrong with it, saying it would not incite violence.
So there!
Of course the Palestinian embassy would say thanks...and of course the Israeli embassy would remain diplomatic...
And as expected he was fined, not for his gesture... but for the point being made all along- wrong platform!! There's even a rule against- that I didn't even know of before:
According to goal.com:
"The Malian striker lifted his top to reveal a t-shirt with the word Palestine across the front, as well as words in Arabic, and has been found worthy of a punishment under article 120.The rule prohibits players from revealing messages of a religious or political nature on the pitch, and hence Kanouté has been fined €3,000, according to AS."
According to you Kanoute's gesture had nothing to do with politics though right? :heehee:
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Well he was fined by the Committee but a lot of fans lauded the gesture.
The Palentinian embassy in Spain sent their thanks and the Israeli embassy saw nothing wrong with it, saying it would not incite violence.
So there!
Of course the Palestinian embassy would say thanks...and of course the Israeli embassy would remain diplomatic...
And as expected he was fined, not for his gesture... but for the point being made all along- wrong platform!! There's even a rule against- that I didn't even know of before:
According to goal.com:
"The Malian striker lifted his top to reveal a t-shirt with the word Palestine across the front, as well as words in Arabic, and has been found worthy of a punishment under article 120.The rule prohibits players from revealing messages of a religious or political nature on the pitch, and hence Kanouté has been fined €3,000, according to AS."
According to you Kanoute's gesture had nothing to do with politics though right? :heehee:
No, I said f*ck politics. I also said that he did it because of the humanitian crisis right now, not because of any political affiliation. While the politicians squabble and dilly dally people dying.
Anyway, if you want to continue arguing, do it with yourself or someone else.
Big up Kanoute.
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Toppa..Kicker..all dat and Real Madrid is still shi* :devil:
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So leh me ask here ... Kaka does be gehhin fine every week when he buss a Jesus jersey?
I see the 'flaw' in my question buh ah go leh it ride ... fuh now at least
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So leh me ask here ... Kaka does be gehhin fine every week when he buss a Jesus jersey?
I see the 'flaw' in my question buh ah go leh it ride ... fuh now at least
Was waiting for someone to ask this.
Although there's a difference it's a good question.... though I don't recall Kaka flashing his jesus jersey week in week out after scoring. I remember him pulling it out after WC '02. and I've seen pics of him with it on... but never seen it as part of his Milan celebration.
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Kanoute can do what he pleases, ONCE it not in sighting a riot.
Remember 1968 Olympics when US track and field stars protest black inequality by raising a black gloved fist.
If someone dictating when you eat,get water, bath, have electricity for years, and you have rockets, you'll fire the shit at them. Hamas won a democratic election and because US and Israel don't like it, so they blockade Gaza.
If US staving your family and say NO Carnival in 2009 in Trinidad you'll do the same. The bling bling we all buy in the Big Apple, the Israeli get them South Africa back in the days of apartheid and today in the Congo,and the rest of Africa.
Happy New Year fellas.
1. You can't really compare the gesture by Tommie Smith and John Carlos to this... the equivalent would have been a t-shirt saying "Peace in the Middle East" rather than a sign of solidarity with any one factor.
2. The rest of your post is a gross oversimplification of the situation between Palestine and Israel. Gaza isn't blockaded. Regardless as to their politics, the fact is that Hamas is a terrorist organization who owe their existence to Syria, much as Hezbollah does in Lebanon. While Israel shares much of the blame for the current situation, by no means are they entirely at fault. They certainly aren't the ones who broke the truce and instigated this current round of fighting.
3. Your statements regarding the jewellers is not only an ill fit for this conversation, but it also carries a thinly-veiled undercurrent of anti-semitism... positing as you will, the greed of a relatively handful of Jewish jewellers onto all the people of Israel.
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Well done, Freddie!! I aplaud your black ass for making some kinda statement, doing it the way you felt was best because God knows, them jews and israelis have every other means of communicating their plight and having their story told, cornered. For God knows how long, them Palestinians and them jews been fighting between themselves but there has been such a disproportionate shift in the balance of power to favor the jews since England and the usa decide to start siding with the jews that the Palestinians no longer exist any more..... dem is not people. or so it seems. dem Palestinian pelt two-tree big stone at dem, is tear gas and bullet in dey ass! Hamas send two-tree rocket in sparsely populated areas: four people dead.....is all kinda technology and smart bomb to mash-up de place: 800+ gone dong de drain......Palestinians is not people, too? Freddie musn't make NO KINDA gesture of solidarity with a people that is suffering? Just because the laws of football say so? Wasn't
Cassius Clay Muhammed Ali eventually deified for what he was initially vilified for by making a political stand, refusing to go to vietnam? Didn't the respective governing bodies see to it that he was stripped of his titles and/or disallowed from from plying his trade? If they could get sport involved with politics then, why can't Freddie do it now? israel could carry out ALL KINDA pre-emptive strike on any of its neighbours and nobody cyah say "boo." Yuh say ANYTHING critical of a jew and yuh "anti semetic." Man, haul dem moddah cont eh! They was trading arms with south africa and flourishing in the diamond industry all while Mandela was in jail and his people was suffering (and I eh want to hear no shit 'bout it being only a "handful of greedy jews" because one jew is for all and all is for one......and ALL AH DEM GREEDY!!).....yuh would think, the way they and the usa always crying "terrorism" that jewish people haven't been reigning terror on these Palestinians in their own way. What Hamas and Hezbollah are doing against israel now aint no different from what the Haganah and the Irgun were doing against the "British Imperialists" sixty-something years ago. You GO, Freddie!!
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Well done, Freddie!! I aplaud your black ass for making some kinda statement, doing it the way you felt was best because God knows, them jews and israelis have every other means of communicating their plight and having their story told, cornered. For God knows how long, them Palestinians and them jews been fighting between themselves but there has been such a disproportionate shift in the balance of power to favor the jews since England and the usa decide to start siding with the jews that the Palestinians no longer exist any more..... dem is not people. or so it seems. dem Palestinian pelt two-tree big stone at dem, is tear gas and bullet in dey ass! Hamas send two-tree rocket in sparsely populated areas: four people dead.....is all kinda technology and smart bomb to mash-up de place: 800+ gone dong de drain......Palestinians is not people, too? Freddie musn't make NO KINDA gesture of solidarity with a people that is suffering? Just because the laws of football say so? Wasn't Cassius Clay Muhammed Ali eventually deified for what he was initially vilified for by making a political stand, refusing to go to vietnam? Didn't the respective governing bodies see to it that he was stripped of his titles and/or disallowed from from plying his trade? If they could get sport involved with politics then, why can't Freddie do it now? israel could carry out ALL KINDA pre-emptive strike on any of its neighbours and nobody cyah say "boo." Yuh say ANYTHING critical of a jew and yuh "anti semetic." Man, haul dem moddah cont eh! They was trading arms with south africa and flourishing in the diamond industry all while Mandela was in jail and his people was suffering (and I eh want to hear no shit 'bout it being only a "handful of greedy jews" because one jew is for all and all is for one......and ALL AH DEM GREEDY!!).....yuh would think, the way they and the usa always crying "terrorism" that jewish people haven't been reigning terror on these Palestinians in their own way. What Hamas and Hezbollah are doing against israel now aint no different from what the Haganah and the Irgun were doing against the "British Imperialists" sixty-something years ago. You GO, Freddie!!
You seriously trying to compare Kanoute with Muhammad Ali? :rotfl: :rotfl:
I've officially seen it all in dis thread yes, lol
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Well done, Freddie!! I aplaud your black ass for making some kinda statement, doing it the way you felt was best because God knows, them jews and israelis have every other means of communicating their plight and having their story told, cornered. For God knows how long, them Palestinians and them jews been fighting between themselves but there has been such a disproportionate shift in the balance of power to favor the jews since England and the usa decide to start siding with the jews that the Palestinians no longer exist any more..... dem is not people. or so it seems. dem Palestinian pelt two-tree big stone at dem, is tear gas and bullet in dey ass! Hamas send two-tree rocket in sparsely populated areas: four people dead.....is all kinda technology and smart bomb to mash-up de place: 800+ gone dong de drain......Palestinians is not people, too? Freddie musn't make NO KINDA gesture of solidarity with a people that is suffering? Just because the laws of football say so? Wasn't Cassius Clay Muhammed Ali eventually deified for what he was initially vilified for by making a political stand, refusing to go to vietnam? Didn't the respective governing bodies see to it that he was stripped of his titles and/or disallowed from from plying his trade? If they could get sport involved with politics then, why can't Freddie do it now? israel could carry out ALL KINDA pre-emptive strike on any of its neighbours and nobody cyah say "boo." Yuh say ANYTHING critical of a jew and yuh "anti semetic." Man, haul dem moddah cont eh! They was trading arms with south africa and flourishing in the diamond industry all while Mandela was in jail and his people was suffering (and I eh want to hear no shit 'bout it being only a "handful of greedy jews" because one jew is for all and all is for one......and ALL AH DEM GREEDY!!).....yuh would think, the way they and the usa always crying "terrorism" that jewish people haven't been reigning terror on these Palestinians in their own way. What Hamas and Hezbollah are doing against israel now aint no different from what the Haganah and the Irgun were doing against the "British Imperialists" sixty-something years ago. You GO, Freddie!!
England may be why Israel exists in the first place, but England currently does not back Israel relentlessly like the US. Most Brits "support" Palestine, not Israel; the British Prime Minister wouldnt dare come out in favour of Israel, the way that Bush & Co do.
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Well done, Freddie!! I aplaud your black ass for making some kinda statement, doing it the way you felt was best because God knows, them jews and israelis have every other means of communicating their plight and having their story told, cornered. For God knows how long, them Palestinians and them jews been fighting between themselves but there has been such a disproportionate shift in the balance of power to favor the jews since England and the usa decide to start siding with the jews that the Palestinians no longer exist any more..... dem is not people. or so it seems. dem Palestinian pelt two-tree big stone at dem, is tear gas and bullet in dey ass! Hamas send two-tree rocket in sparsely populated areas: four people dead.....is all kinda technology and smart bomb to mash-up de place: 800+ gone dong de drain......Palestinians is not people, too? Freddie musn't make NO KINDA gesture of solidarity with a people that is suffering? Just because the laws of football say so? Wasn't Cassius Clay Muhammed Ali eventually deified for what he was initially vilified for by making a political stand, refusing to go to vietnam? Didn't the respective governing bodies see to it that he was stripped of his titles and/or disallowed from from plying his trade? If they could get sport involved with politics then, why can't Freddie do it now? israel could carry out ALL KINDA pre-emptive strike on any of its neighbours and nobody cyah say "boo." Yuh say ANYTHING critical of a jew and yuh "anti semetic." Man, haul dem moddah cont eh! They was trading arms with south africa and flourishing in the diamond industry all while Mandela was in jail and his people was suffering (and I eh want to hear no shit 'bout it being only a "handful of greedy jews" because one jew is for all and all is for one......and ALL AH DEM GREEDY!!).....yuh would think, the way they and the usa always crying "terrorism" that jewish people haven't been reigning terror on these Palestinians in their own way. What Hamas and Hezbollah are doing against israel now aint no different from what the Haganah and the Irgun were doing against the "British Imperialists" sixty-something years ago. You GO, Freddie!!
Seriously Chow? One jew is for all and all for one? All Jews Greedy?
ok :'(
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Well done, Freddie!! I aplaud your black ass for making some kinda statement, doing it the way you felt was best because God knows, them jews and israelis have every other means of communicating their plight and having their story told, cornered. For God knows how long, them Palestinians and them jews been fighting between themselves but there has been such a disproportionate shift in the balance of power to favor the jews since England and the usa decide to start siding with the jews that the Palestinians no longer exist any more..... dem is not people. or so it seems. dem Palestinian pelt two-tree big stone at dem, is tear gas and bullet in dey ass! Hamas send two-tree rocket in sparsely populated areas: four people dead.....is all kinda technology and smart bomb to mash-up de place: 800+ gone dong de drain......Palestinians is not people, too? Freddie musn't make NO KINDA gesture of solidarity with a people that is suffering? Just because the laws of football say so? Wasn't Cassius Clay Muhammed Ali eventually deified for what he was initially vilified for by making a political stand, refusing to go to vietnam? Didn't the respective governing bodies see to it that he was stripped of his titles and/or disallowed from from plying his trade? If they could get sport involved with politics then, why can't Freddie do it now? israel could carry out ALL KINDA pre-emptive strike on any of its neighbours and nobody cyah say "boo." Yuh say ANYTHING critical of a jew and yuh "anti semetic." Man, haul dem moddah cont eh! They was trading arms with south africa and flourishing in the diamond industry all while Mandela was in jail and his people was suffering (and I eh want to hear no shit 'bout it being only a "handful of greedy jews" because one jew is for all and all is for one......and ALL AH DEM GREEDY!!).....yuh would think, the way they and the usa always crying "terrorism" that jewish people haven't been reigning terror on these Palestinians in their own way. What Hamas and Hezbollah are doing against israel now aint no different from what the Haganah and the Irgun were doing against the "British Imperialists" sixty-something years ago. You GO, Freddie!!
England may be why Israel exists in the first place, but England currently does not back Israel relentlessly like the US. Most Brits "support" Palestine, not Israel; the British Prime Minister wouldnt dare come out in favour of Israel, the way that Bush & Co do.
What I'm referring to, Ryan, was England's attempt at transplanting a number of European jews early on in the 20th century in Palestine and they (transplants) wreaked havoc on them Palestinians. I would imagine now that the Brits would not have forgotten how Menachem Begin and them terrorized them, the Arabs and blew the British army out of Jerusalem in 1946. It was Harry Truman, under the pressured lobbying of one of his aides (jewish, of course) that set the ball rolling through the UN for establishing Israel as a recognized state.
Filho, you really think I talking about every single living jewish person as being down for their own cause and vice versa? Come nah man, Jed, I KNOW you smarter than that.
Bake and Shark.........you really take what I wrote to mean that I am comparing Freddie Kanoute to Muhammed Ali?!?! Aren't you supposed to be smarter than that man? See why I does tell yuh yuh is a educated fool?
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Bake and Shark.........you really take what I wrote to mean that I am comparing Freddie Kanoute to Muhammed Ali?!?! Aren't you supposed to be smarter than that man? See why I does tell yuh yuh is a educated fool?
I'm talking about your comparison of their actions you simpleton, not a personal comparison of each man... didn't think I needed to spell that out for you. Muhammad Ali wasn't protesting nor was he showing sign of solidarity with anyone or anything. Muhammad Ali was a conscientious objector, meaning that he objected to being drafted for the war in Vietnam, his opposition wasn't to the war itself, he was personally caught up, and just didn't want any part of it.
Kanoute on the other hand from all appearances isn't personally affected by the situation in Palestine, he's making what can best be considered a political show of solidarity with the Palestinian people... could even easily be termed a protest. One is political the other was personal. One is a symbolic gesture, the other was premeditated act of personal defiance made with due consideration of the legal consequences. Kanoute risked a token fine (relative to his salary), Muhammad Ali made his decision knowing full well it would cost him his freedom. Kanoute likely won't miss any playing time... Muhammad Ali lost his titles and the right to ply his trade for 3 yrs.
In light of the penalty each man knew they would be facing, the bravery shown by Ali cannot be compared with Kanoute's actions. In light of the penalty paid by each man in the end... the sacrifice shown by Ali cannot be compared to Kanoute's actions.
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Bake and Shark.........you really take what I wrote to mean that I am comparing Freddie Kanoute to Muhammed Ali?!?! Aren't you supposed to be smarter than that man? See why I does tell yuh yuh is a educated fool?
I'm talking about your comparison of their actions you simpleton, not a personal comparison of each man... didn't think I needed to spell that out for you. Muhammad Ali wasn't protesting nor was he showing sign of solidarity with anyone or anything. Muhammad Ali was a conscientious objector, meaning that he objected to being drafted for the war in Vietnam, his opposition wasn't to the war itself, he was personally caught up, and just didn't want any part of it.
Kanoute on the other hand from all appearances isn't personally affected by the situation in Palestine, he's making what can best be considered a political show of solidarity with the Palestinian people... could even easily be termed a protest. One is political the other was personal. One is a symbolic gesture, the other was premeditated act of personal defiance made with due consideration of the legal consequences. Kanoute risked a token fine (relative to his salary), Muhammad Ali made his decision knowing full well it would cost him his freedom. Kanoute likely won't miss any playing time... Muhammad Ali lost his titles and the right to ply his trade for 3 yrs.
In light of the penalty each man knew they would be facing, the bravery shown by Ali cannot be compared with Kanoute's actions. In light of the penalty paid by each man in the end... the sacrifice shown by Ali cannot be compared to Kanoute's actions.
Again, Jackass, I was not comparing any aspect of the two of them whether it be their actions, political views, symbolic gestures OR token acts of solidarity. What I was comparing was people's/authorities'/governing bodies' assertion that Athletes should not use their athletic platform to get "involved" with politics (or personal gestures of solidarity or whatever) but governing bodies of sports don't necessarily stay within their own bounds when acting on an athlete's actions, as was the case with Muhammed Ali. I was in no way, shape or form, comparing Freddie Kanoute to him, but the high-flying, complex, all-anal, idiotic critic that you are, you would chose to see it that I was. Once again, that is why I call you an educated fool.
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Well he was fined by the Committee but a lot of fans lauded the gesture.
The Palentinian embassy in Spain sent their thanks and the Israeli embassy saw nothing wrong with it, saying it would not incite violence.
So there!
Of course the Palestinian embassy would say thanks...and of course the Israeli embassy would remain diplomatic...
And as expected he was fined, not for his gesture... but for the point being made all along- wrong platform!! There's even a rule against- that I didn't even know of before:
According to goal.com:
"The Malian striker lifted his top to reveal a t-shirt with the word Palestine across the front, as well as words in Arabic, and has been found worthy of a punishment under article 120.The rule prohibits players from revealing messages of a religious or political nature on the pitch, and hence Kanouté has been fined €3,000, according to AS."
According to you Kanoute's gesture had nothing to do with politics though right? :heehee:
All feel some people miss dis post so ah bring it up again .... like some people want another lap top issue again ... It against de rules ..he get fine ..case closed !
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Again, Jackass, I was not comparing any aspect of the two of them whether it be their actions, political views, symbolic gestures OR token acts of solidarity. What I was comparing was people's/authorities'/governing bodies' assertion that Athletes should not use their athletic platform to get "involved" with politics (or personal gestures of solidarity or whatever) but governing bodies of sports don't necessarily stay within their own bounds when acting on an athlete's actions, as was the case with Muhammed Ali. I was in no way, shape or form, comparing Freddie Kanoute to him, but the high-flying, complex, all-anal, idiotic critic that you are, you would chose to see it that I was. Once again, that is why I call you an educated fool.
Oh my bad... silly me for seeing you mention Muhammad Ali's situation and Freddy Kanoute's situation in the same breath Gand thinking that yuh was making ah comparison between both ah dem situation. Given your intellectual deficits, you calling me ah "educated fool" can only be construed as a compliment.
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Well done, Freddie!! I aplaud your black ass for making some kinda statement, doing it the way you felt was best because God knows, them jews and israelis have every other means of communicating their plight and having their story told, cornered. For God knows how long, them Palestinians and them jews been fighting between themselves but there has been such a disproportionate shift in the balance of power to favor the jews since England and the usa decide to start siding with the jews that the Palestinians no longer exist any more..... dem is not people. or so it seems. dem Palestinian pelt two-tree big stone at dem, is tear gas and bullet in dey ass! Hamas send two-tree rocket in sparsely populated areas: four people dead.....is all kinda technology and smart bomb to mash-up de place: 800+ gone dong de drain......Palestinians is not people, too? Freddie musn't make NO KINDA gesture of solidarity with a people that is suffering? Just because the laws of football say so? Wasn't Cassius Clay Muhammed Ali eventually deified for what he was initially vilified for by making a political stand, refusing to go to vietnam? Didn't the respective governing bodies see to it that he was stripped of his titles and/or disallowed from from plying his trade? If they could get sport involved with politics then, why can't Freddie do it now? israel could carry out ALL KINDA pre-emptive strike on any of its neighbours and nobody cyah say "boo." Yuh say ANYTHING critical of a jew and yuh "anti semetic." Man, haul dem moddah cont eh! They was trading arms with south africa and flourishing in the diamond industry all while Mandela was in jail and his people was suffering (and I eh want to hear no shit 'bout it being only a "handful of greedy jews" because one jew is for all and all is for one......and ALL AH DEM GREEDY!!).....yuh would think, the way they and the usa always crying "terrorism" that jewish people haven't been reigning terror on these Palestinians in their own way. What Hamas and Hezbollah are doing against israel now aint no different from what the Haganah and the Irgun were doing against the "British Imperialists" sixty-something years ago. You GO, Freddie!!
I don't think this move by the league has anything to do with a "disproportionate shift in the balance of power to favor the jews since England and the usa decide to start siding with the jews" as you put it, nor does it have anything to do with anyone's view on Freddy's solidarity with Palestine. I think if Freddy flaunted a shirt with "Israel" on it, he'd receive the same treatment....
I think the idea behind FIFA/UEFA/La liga establishing rules of this sort is to:
1) Make a statement that the field of play is one where religious and political differences are put aside.
2) Disclaim themselves as an organization from any one political affiliation or the other, as a neutral multi-national body. Sorta like how TV stations disclaim the views of callers on live talk shows...(whereas you can't really control callers on a live show), you can set rules for players plying their trade under your governing body. I think it's totally fair and reasonable.
I don't think UEFA/La liga per se has an objection to Freddy's view or what he stands for (my guess is that individually there are probably alot of people in the front office who share his view), but whether you agree or not, it is a political stance, and it is being taken on their platform which the governing body chooses to maintain as a politically neutral one...
I think the emotion triggered by the surrounding events taking place in Palestine, is clouding what is really at play here regarding Freddy's sanction...
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Well done, Freddie!! I aplaud your black ass for making some kinda statement, doing it the way you felt was best because God knows, them jews and israelis have every other means of communicating their plight and having their story told, cornered. For God knows how long, them Palestinians and them jews been fighting between themselves but there has been such a disproportionate shift in the balance of power to favor the jews since England and the usa decide to start siding with the jews that the Palestinians no longer exist any more..... dem is not people. or so it seems. dem Palestinian pelt two-tree big stone at dem, is tear gas and bullet in dey ass! Hamas send two-tree rocket in sparsely populated areas: four people dead.....is all kinda technology and smart bomb to mash-up de place: 800+ gone dong de drain......Palestinians is not people, too? Freddie musn't make NO KINDA gesture of solidarity with a people that is suffering? Just because the laws of football say so? Wasn't Cassius Clay Muhammed Ali eventually deified for what he was initially vilified for by making a political stand, refusing to go to vietnam? Didn't the respective governing bodies see to it that he was stripped of his titles and/or disallowed from from plying his trade? If they could get sport involved with politics then, why can't Freddie do it now? israel could carry out ALL KINDA pre-emptive strike on any of its neighbours and nobody cyah say "boo." Yuh say ANYTHING critical of a jew and yuh "anti semetic." Man, haul dem moddah cont eh! They was trading arms with south africa and flourishing in the diamond industry all while Mandela was in jail and his people was suffering (and I eh want to hear no shit 'bout it being only a "handful of greedy jews" because one jew is for all and all is for one......and ALL AH DEM GREEDY!!).....yuh would think, the way they and the usa always crying "terrorism" that jewish people haven't been reigning terror on these Palestinians in their own way. What Hamas and Hezbollah are doing against israel now aint no different from what the Haganah and the Irgun were doing against the "British Imperialists" sixty-something years ago. You GO, Freddie!!
I don't think this move by the league has anything to do with a "disproportionate shift in the balance of power to favor the jews since England and the usa decide to start siding with the jews" as you put it, nor does it have anything to do with anyone's view on Freddy's solidarity with Palestine. I think if Freddy flaunted a shirt with "Israel" on it, he'd receive the same treatment....
I think the idea behind FIFA/UEFA/La liga establishing rules of this sort is to:
1) Make a statement that the field of play is one where religious and political differences are put aside.
2) Disclaim themselves as an organization from any one political affiliation or the other, as a neutral multi-national body. Sorta like how TV stations disclaim the views of callers on live talk shows...(whereas you can't really control callers on a live show), you can set rules for players plying their trade under your governing body. I think it's totally fair and reasonable.
I don't think UEFA/La liga per se has an objection to Freddy's view or what he stands for (my guess is that individually there are probably alot of people in the front office who share his view), but whether you agree or not, it is a political stance, and it is being taken on their platform which the governing body chooses to maintain as a politically neutral one...
I think the emotion triggered by the surrounding events taking place in Palestine, is clouding what is really at play here regarding Freddy's sanction...
I am looking at it from a broader view than just that of UEFA/La Liga and the bottom line is, that no matter how much people claim that sports and politics do not mix, in reality there are always going to be crossroads where the two meet. Freddie is defying whatever constraints are being placed on him as a footballer to express his sentiment, whether it be a political stand, a personal view or a sympathetic gesture. Many people are going to have opinions on his stand, his action and even his actual sentiments, whether that be for or against. Likewise, people are going to have an opinion on the israeli-Palestinian situation as well, be it in favour of one side or another or neither. The shift in the balance of power that I refereed to had nothing to do with sport, Kicker. Not as I see it.
Again, Jackass, I was not comparing any aspect of the two of them whether it be their actions, political views, symbolic gestures OR token acts of solidarity. What I was comparing was people's/authorities'/governing bodies' assertion that Athletes should not use their athletic platform to get "involved" with politics (or personal gestures of solidarity or whatever) but governing bodies of sports don't necessarily stay within their own bounds when acting on an athlete's actions, as was the case with Muhammed Ali. I was in no way, shape or form, comparing Freddie Kanoute to him, but the high-flying, complex, all-anal, idiotic critic that you are, you would chose to see it that I was. Once again, that is why I call you an educated fool.
Oh my bad... silly me for seeing you mention Muhammad Ali's situation and Freddy Kanoute's situation in the same breath Gand thinking that yuh was making ah comparison between both ah dem situation. Given your intellectual deficits, you calling me ah "educated fool" can only be construed as a compliment.
Construe it how you want, it's the truth. I would gladly take my intellectual deficits over being what you are.
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Kanoute on the other hand from all appearances isn't personally affected by the situation in Palestine,
Believe me, it is personal to every muslim who practices his religion.
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Construe it how you want, it's the truth. I would gladly take my intellectual deficits over being what you are.
In your wildest of dreams you couldn't be what I am fella... you still have some evolving to do.
Believe me, it is personal to every muslim who practices his religion.
How is Kanoute personally affected the the situation in Gaza?
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Construe it how you want, it's the truth. I would gladly take my intellectual deficits over being what you are.
In your wildest of dreams you couldn't be what I am fella... you still have some evolving to do.
Believe me, it is personal to every muslim who practices his religion.
How is Kanoute personally affected the the situation in Gaza?
:sleepy: I have news for you, bredda: Contrary to how grand or important you may think you are, no one is spending their time aspiring to be the asshole that you are, no matter how wild the dream or how much evolution you may think it takes. I actually know people on death row that would absolutely refuse to trade places with you if given a chance.
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ah man is ah man...so if brudda man feel de need too so be it, nobody forcin him n it en hurtin no one
that's not necessarily true. he should keep those beliefs away from sport, especially in Europe where antisemitism is a real problem and on the rise. he is a public figure and a de facto role model, and there are youths who will feel violent acts against Spain's jews are more legit when someone like Fredi wears a shirt that reads Palestine without clarifying his exact position on the affair.
A spanish player wearing a shirt with a swastika could just be showing his beliefs, and without saying a word he is not directly hurting anyone. But there is a danger in that it gives the far right a public voice, a legitimate 'spokesperson' and for the real yahoos..just a lil more brass to go out and do something stupid. Fredi's actions could feel the same way to some jews in Europe
i dont think anti-semitism is a problem in europe. what is described as anti-semitism is usually anti-israeli sentiment.
If Kanoute is against hundreds of innocents being bombed he is entitled to have his say. Thats not comparable to wearing a swastika
THER IS NO SEPARATION OF ISRAEL FROM SEMITISM..NONE!
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:sleepy: I have news for you, bredda: Contrary to how grand or important you may think you are, no one is spending their time aspiring to be the asshole that you are, no matter how wild the dream or how much evolution you may think it takes. I actually know people on death row that would absolutely refuse to trade places with you if given a chance.
You have me pegged wrong fella... I am neither 'grand' nor 'important'... and I'm certainly not anywhere the asshole you are. I'm happy for you that you have personal experience with yuh fellas behind bars, I'm sure you spent nuff time working with them on your asshole skills. Good for you.
Your fifteen minutes of fame is up... time to move on.
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Mango, there are those on this forum who does put so much "spin" on things that they would actually make a Carousel think that it standing still ;D
AND they also believe what they are typing :devil:
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i dont think anti-semitism is a problem in europe.
French Jewish cemetery attacked (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3551278.stm)
Rabbi stabbed at Paris synagogue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2626825.stm)
New attack on Paris synagogue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1921892.stm)
Anti-Semitism has been a problem in Europe for millennia. In fact, if it hadn't been for European Anti-Semitism then the modern state of Israel would never have been established in the first place.
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i dont think anti-semitism is a problem in europe.
French Jewish cemetery attacked (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3551278.stm)
Rabbi stabbed at Paris synagogue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2626825.stm)
New attack on Paris synagogue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1921892.stm)
Anti-Semitism has been a problem in Europe for millennia. In fact, if it hadn't been for European Anti-Semitism then the modern state of Israel would never have been established in the first place.
zeppo allyuh like thing eh...i thought de thread was dying, now you come wid dis ;)
dis could be turn into a 4/5-pager of entertainment of de highest order...and we getting ah two-for-one deal too, politics and religion combined!
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Was waiting for someone to ask this.
Although there's a difference it's a good question.... though I don't recall Kaka flashing his jesus jersey week in week out after scoring. I remember him pulling it out after WC '02. and I've seen pics of him with it on... but never seen it as part of his Milan celebration.
(http://clientimages.teamtalk.com/07/05/330/KakaBelongsToJesus_225740.jpg)
Anyway, regarding the rule you quoted that prohibits players from "revealing messages of a religious or political nature on the pitch", is that a rule for the Spanish league or all of FIFA?
If so, I also wonder whether it was applied to Juventus defender Nicola Legrottaglie when he displayed his Jesus t-shirt after scoring during a recent game.
http://www.goal.com/en/news/593/juventus/2008/12/24/1026675/legrottaglie-jesus-changed-me
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i dont think anti-semitism is a problem in europe.
French Jewish cemetery attacked (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3551278.stm)
Rabbi stabbed at Paris synagogue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2626825.stm)
New attack on Paris synagogue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1921892.stm)
Anti-Semitism has been a problem in Europe for millennia. In fact, if it hadn't been for European Anti-Semitism then the modern state of Israel would never have been established in the first place.
There will always be some examples of anti-semitism, just as there are examples of every form of bigotry. IMO, while I agre that things can always be improved the situation now is incomparable to the situation at the time when Israel was formed.
Also, the current situation is largely fueled by unfair reprisal attacks on Jews due to Israel's attitude towards Palestine.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7822656.stm
UK Jews demand Israeli ceasefire
Feelings ran high at a pro-Palestinian rally in London and arrests were made
A number of prominent British Jews have written an open letter calling on the Israeli government to halt its military operations in Gaza immediately.
The letter, published in the Observer, warns the military action, far from improving security, will strengthen extremism and destabilise the region.
The signatories, who declare themselves "passionate supporters of Israel", include several rabbis.
The first major rally in support of Israel in the UK will take place later.
Prominent rabbis, academics and political figures supported the open letter, including Rabbi Dr Tony Bayfield, head of the Movement for Reform Judaism; Sir Jeremy Beecham, former chairman of the Labour party; Professor Shalom Lappin of the University of London and Baroness Julia Neuberger.
Pro-Israeli rally
They write: "We look upon the increasing loss of life on both sides of the Gaza conflict with horror.
"We have no doubt that rocket attacks into southern Israel, by Hamas and other militant Palestinian groups, are war crimes against Israel.
"No sovereign state should, or would, tolerate continued attacks and the deliberate targeting of civilians.
Israel has warned its may intensify its two-week-old offensive
"Israel had a right to respond and we support the Israeli government's decision to make stopping the rocket attacks an urgent priority.
"However, we believe that now only negotiations can secure long-term security for Israel and the region."
Earlier Jewish officials reacted angrily after a hoax e-mail claimed a rally planned to take place in London on Sunday had been cancelled.
The event at Trafalgar Square is expected to draw thousands of people - it will be the first major rally organised by the Jewish community in the UK over Israel's offensive against Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip.
The e-mail purported to come from the UK's Jewish communal leadership, the Board of Deputies (BoD).
A rally is also being held in Manchester.
'8,000 rockets'
BoD chief executive John Benjamin said despite support for Israel's position, the events are primarily a call for peace.
He said: "Certainly I think the people who will be there will understand that Israel has felt it necessary to take action to stop the many thousands of rockets that have been launched from Gaza in the last several years.
"We're not just talking about the last two weeks but over the course of years I think there have been something like 8,000 rockets.
"So, there is an understanding of that position but it's not a rally that is either commending exactly what's going on on day by day, or even, as British Jews and British Christians and others who are coming together, making a statement about the military action - it's a call for peace."
Pro-Palestinian protesters have already been out in force
On Saturday thousands of pro-Palestinian demonstrators marched through London to call for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza.
The protest started peacefully but there were confrontations as police tried to move demonstrators away from the gates of the Israeli embassy.
Protests also took place in Edinburgh, Aberdeen, Belfast, Newcastle and Southampton.
In Gaza three Palestinians have been killed and dozens more injured by new Israeli tank fire and air strikes, according to medical sources.
Reports of the deaths came hours after Israel dropped leaflets warning Gazans to stay away from areas used by Hamas, saying its operation would escalate.
Some 820 Gazans and 13 Israelis have reportedly died in 14 days of fighting.
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ah man is ah man...so if brudda man feel de need too so be it, nobody forcin him n it en hurtin no one
that's not necessarily true. he should keep those beliefs away from sport, especially in Europe where antisemitism is a real problem and on the rise. he is a public figure and a de facto role model, and there are youths who will feel violent acts against Spain's jews are more legit when someone like Fredi wears a shirt that reads Palestine without clarifying his exact position on the affair.
A spanish player wearing a shirt with a swastika could just be showing his beliefs, and without saying a word he is not directly hurting anyone. But there is a danger in that it gives the far right a public voice, a legitimate 'spokesperson' and for the real yahoos..just a lil more brass to go out and do something stupid. Fredi's actions could feel the same way to some jews in Europe
i dont think anti-semitism is a problem in europe. what is described as anti-semitism is usually anti-israeli sentiment.
If Kanoute is against hundreds of innocents being bombed he is entitled to have his say. Thats not comparable to wearing a swastika
Exactly.[/b]
Well then Freddy should wear a shirt showing support for Israel also. They were being bombed everyday and not a fool spoke before. Its amazing how the retards are out in numbers now.
yeah they were bombed and pelted with rocks everyday from an area that has been under seige by the said Israelis for years now.
Which freddy are you guys referring to.....
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He is expressing his support for the plight of the Palestinians. Nothing else. Hats off to him. If someone were to read 'anti-semetic' sentiments into his T-Shirt then that person is an idiot.
Wearing a T-shirt with the word Palestine is more of an advertisement of political affiliation than support for anything. What he did does nothing for the plight of Palestinians. It won't stop the violence, it doesn't soothe the pain of mourning families, it won't mend any of the ill-feelings between the warring factions, and it doesn't simplify what is a complicated situation in Gazza- all it does is imply a political affiliation which without explanation probably serves more to fuel ill feelings on the other side of the fence, than it does to lend support to anyone.... What if he didn't score? Where would the "support" be?
All Kanoute did was exploit a public forum to advertise a political affiliation in a time and place where it was unnecessary, and could easily be misinterpreted....
To each his own of course, and my guess is that his gesture was well-intended, but my view is that there is a time and place for everything and there's no room for that oversimplified partisan political advertisment in football....none.
Well kicker your opinion is yours to keep,but besides wearing a t-shirt he could actively be involved in many other ways to stop the bloodshed we won't know,but I've news for you, politics is involved in all that we do good or bad it influences everything.......
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Filho, you really think I talking about every single living jewish person as being down for their own cause and vice versa? Come nah man, Jed, I KNOW you smarter than that.
Cool bredda. No scene. Hard to know sometimes on this forum, especially when man get heated. I only asked cuz I too believed you were smarter dan dat.
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How come no one talks about antisemitism when referring to the Arabs? They are Semitic peoples as well right?
The Jews and Arabs are both descendants of Abraham who was a descendant of Shem (Noah's son), which is where the term Semite or Semitic comes from. The Jews are the the descendants of Isaac and the Arabs descendants of Ishmael (two sons of Abraham).
Maybe someone could shed some light on this for me or correct me if I wrong. When did the term Semitic become a term referring exclusively to Jews?
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How come no one talks about antisemitism when referring to the Arabs? They are Semitic peoples as well right?
The Jews and Arabs are both descendants of Abraham who was a descendant of Shem (Noah's son), which is where the term Semite or Semitic comes from. The Jews are the the descendants of Isaac and the Arabs descendants of Ishmael (two sons of Abraham).
Maybe someone could shed some light on this for me or correct me if I wrong. When did the term Semitic become a term referring exclusively to Jews?
geat question. didn't know the answer but wikipedia is usually a good first stop to get a decent summary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti_Semitism
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Also, the current situation is largely fueled by unfair reprisal attacks on Jews due to Israel's attitude towards Palestine.
... but is that not by definition, Anti-semitism? If they're being attacked on the basis of them being Jews... and by extension perceived as being in league with Israel?
How come no one talks about antisemitism when referring to the Arabs? They are Semitic peoples as well right?
The Jews and Arabs are both descendants of Abraham who was a descendant of Shem (Noah's son), which is where the term Semite or Semitic comes from. The Jews are the the descendants of Isaac and the Arabs descendants of Ishmael (two sons of Abraham).
Maybe someone could shed some light on this for me or correct me if I wrong. When did the term Semitic become a term referring exclusively to Jews?
Nah you're right... I myself was surprised to learn of this some years ago... they're all Semites. I guess however the difference in application comes down to semantics vs. convention... from a semantic perspective it should apply to all, however the conventional application of the term 'anti-semitic' has been in reference to anti-jewish actions.
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How come no one talks about antisemitism when referring to the Arabs? They are Semitic peoples as well right?
The Jews and Arabs are both descendants of Abraham who was a descendant of Shem (Noah's son), which is where the term Semite or Semitic comes from. The Jews are the the descendants of Isaac and the Arabs descendants of Ishmael (two sons of Abraham).
Maybe someone could shed some light on this for me or correct me if I wrong. When did the term Semitic become a term referring exclusively to Jews?
Nah you're right... I myself was surprised to learn of this some years ago... they're all Semites. I guess however the difference in application comes down to semantics vs. convention... from a semantic perspective it should apply to all, however the conventional application of the term 'anti-semitic' has been in reference to anti-jewish actions.
it's interesting to see how certain ethnic terms have evolved from their literal (and original) meanings to new meanings in common parlance...
Like Hispanic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic
or Aryan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan
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Also, the current situation is largely fueled by unfair reprisal attacks on Jews due to Israel's attitude towards Palestine.
... but is that not by definition, Anti-semitism? If they're being attacked on the basis of them being Jews... and by extension perceived as being in league with Israel?
How come no one talks about antisemitism when referring to the Arabs? They are Semitic peoples as well right?
The Jews and Arabs are both descendants of Abraham who was a descendant of Shem (Noah's son), which is where the term Semite or Semitic comes from. The Jews are the the descendants of Isaac and the Arabs descendants of Ishmael (two sons of Abraham).
Maybe someone could shed some light on this for me or correct me if I wrong. When did the term Semitic become a term referring exclusively to Jews?
Nah you're right... I myself was surprised to learn of this some years ago... they're all Semites. I guess however the difference in application comes down to semantics vs. convention... from a semantic perspective it should apply to all, however the conventional application of the term 'anti-semitic' has been in reference to anti-jewish actions.
Applies to some Ethiopian communities as well ...
Aside from its contemplation of Jews, I would add that the 'convention' you refer to is not settled with respect to a common definition across borders or possessed of an accepted dimension ... but I accept that you are referring to the US popular context.
Have a look at this (http://www.eumc.eu.int/eumc/material/pub/AS/AS-WorkingDefinition-draft.pdf) which the US State Dep't's Office to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism references on the State Dep't website with the caveat: "The recitation of the EUMC "working definition" of anti-Semitism should not be construed as an acceptance of that definition, or the statements and examples thereunder, as United States policy."
Beyond that, to get to the bottom of NUFF"s question we would have to march through 19th century intellectual history to unmask the formalization of anti-semitism as a concretized or concretizing concept. An abundance of information of varying quality (and, likely, reliability) is available here (http://www.answers.com/topic/anti-semitism). In sum, prejudiced and racist European Christians once again carved out an industry in exclusivity.
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it's interesting to see how certain ethnic terms have evolved from their literal (and original) meanings to new meanings in common parlance...
Like Hispanic:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic
or Aryan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan
Aryan I'm not surprised by... learned that a while ago actually.
This surprised me about Hispanic though... "the African nations of Equatorial Guinea,[1] and Western Sahara, and the northern coastal region of Morocco.[citation needed]"
Applies to some Ethiopian communities as well ...
Aside from its contemplation of Jews, I would add that the 'convention' you refer to is not settled with respect to a common definition across borders or possessed of an accepted dimension ... but I accept that you are referring to the US popular context.
Have a look at this (http://www.eumc.eu.int/eumc/material/pub/AS/AS-WorkingDefinition-draft.pdf) which the US State Dep't's Office to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism references on the State Dep't website with the caveat: "The recitation of the EUMC "working definition" of anti-Semitism should not be construed as an acceptance of that definition, or the statements and examples thereunder, as United States policy."
Beyond that, to get to the bottom of NUFF"s question we would have to march through 19th century intellectual history to unmask the formalization of anti-semitism as a concretized or concretizing concept. An abundance of information of varying quality (and, likely, reliability) is available here (http://www.answers.com/topic/anti-semitism). In sum, prejudiced and racist European Christians once again carved out an industry in exclusivity.
Yeah I honestly don't know... I would suggest though that it's probably more than just US pop culture, and perhaps 'convention' in a western popular culture/context. I agree with your suggestion as to the history, from what I remember much of the religious... and cultural divide among Christianity, Judaism and Islam was 'concretized' following the end of the crusades. European nations became decidely more insular and xenophobic then... continuing thru the early part of the 20th Century. Given it's history then, it's all the more remarkable that the EU was able to take shape.
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ah man is ah man...so if brudda man feel de need too so be it, nobody forcin him n it en hurtin no one
that's not necessarily true. he should keep those beliefs away from sport, especially in Europe where antisemitism is a real problem and on the rise. he is a public figure and a de facto role model, and there are youths who will feel violent acts against Spain's jews are more legit when someone like Fredi wears a shirt that reads Palestine without clarifying his exact position on the affair.
A spanish player wearing a shirt with a swastika could just be showing his beliefs, and without saying a word he is not directly hurting anyone. But there is a danger in that it gives the far right a public voice, a legitimate 'spokesperson' and for the real yahoos..just a lil more brass to go out and do something stupid. Fredi's actions could feel the same way to some jews in Europe
i dont think anti-semitism is a problem in europe. what is described as anti-semitism is usually anti-israeli sentiment.
If Kanoute is against hundreds of innocents being bombed he is entitled to have his say. Thats not comparable to wearing a swastika
Exactly.[/b]
Well then Freddy should wear a shirt showing support for Israel also. They were being bombed everyday and not a fool spoke before. Its amazing how the retards are out in numbers now.
Fella Israel deserve a serious comeuppance yuh know. Dey does real f**k up de Palestinians a whole lot. Bush and dem supporting Israel thru thick and thin, yet launch war against Iraq for contravening UN Mandates...how many UN Mandates has Israel failed to uphold?
I find Hamas look for dey ting eh, doh get me wrong, yuh cyar beat Israel thru war, why put yuh citizens in such danger? But Israel is the real culprit over they for years.
Israel move into the people land, tell them to vacate they homes, bulldoze dem and den build new Jewish settlements dey...yuh f**king mad or wha? If a man come in yuh yard and do dat, what will your response be?
there are also well documented instances of Israeli atrocities against young Palestinian men.
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Kanoute can do what he pleases, ONCE it not in sighting a riot.
Remember 1968 Olympics when US track and field stars protest black inequality by raising a black gloved fist.
If someone dictating when you eat,get water, bath, have electricity for years, and you have rockets, you'll fire the shit at them. Hamas won a democratic election and because US and Israel don't like it, so they blockade Gaza.
If US staving your family and say NO Carnival in 2009 in Trinidad you'll do the same. The bling bling we all buy in the Big Apple, the Israeli get them South Africa back in the days of apartheid and today in the Congo,and the rest of Africa.
Happy New Year fellas.
1. You can't really compare ???the gesture by Tommie Smith and John Carlos to this... the equivalent would have been a t-shirt saying "Peace in the Middle East" ???rather than a sign of solidarity with any one factor.
2. The rest of your post is a gross oversimplification of the situation between Palestine and Israel. Gaza isn't blockaded???. Regardless as to their politics, the fact is that Hamas is a terrorist organization who owe their existence to Syria???, much as Hezbollah does in Lebanon. While Israel shares much of the blame for the current situation, by no means are they entirely at fault. They certainly aren't the ones who broke the truce and instigated this current round of fighting.
3. Your statements regarding the jewellers is not only an ill fit for this conversation, but it also carries a thinly-veiled undercurrent of anti-semitism???... positing as you will, the greed of a relatively handful of Jewish jewellers onto all the people of Israel.
this have to go down as one of the most toots posts of the decade.
I'll save myself the never ending argument and just quietly lament that if even the better read americans pushing this head, then what hope do we have? I'll just pray that Obama read a lil more.
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Well done, Freddie!! I aplaud your black ass for making some kinda statement, doing it the way you felt was best because God knows, them jews and israelis have every other means of communicating their plight and having their story told, cornered. For God knows how long, them Palestinians and them jews been fighting between themselves but there has been such a disproportionate shift in the balance of power to favor the jews since England and the usa decide to start siding with the jews that the Palestinians no longer exist any more..... dem is not people. or so it seems. dem Palestinian pelt two-tree big stone at dem, is tear gas and bullet in dey ass! Hamas send two-tree rocket in sparsely populated areas: four people dead.....is all kinda technology and smart bomb to mash-up de place: 800+ gone dong de drain......Palestinians is not people, too? Freddie musn't make NO KINDA gesture of solidarity with a people that is suffering? Just because the laws of football say so? Wasn't Cassius Clay Muhammed Ali eventually deified for what he was initially vilified for by making a political stand, refusing to go to vietnam? Didn't the respective governing bodies see to it that he was stripped of his titles and/or disallowed from from plying his trade? If they could get sport involved with politics then, why can't Freddie do it now? israel could carry out ALL KINDA pre-emptive strike on any of its neighbours and nobody cyah say "boo." Yuh say ANYTHING critical of a jew and yuh "anti semetic." Man, haul dem moddah cont eh! They was trading arms with south africa and flourishing in the diamond industry all while Mandela was in jail and his people was suffering (and I eh want to hear no shit 'bout it being only a "handful of greedy jews" because one jew is for all and all is for one......and ALL AH DEM GREEDY!!).....yuh would think, the way they and the usa always crying "terrorism" that jewish people haven't been reigning terror on these Palestinians in their own way. What Hamas and Hezbollah are doing against israel now aint no different from what the Haganah and the Irgun were doing against the "British Imperialists" sixty-something years ago. You GO, Freddie!!
England may be why Israel exists in the first place, but England currently does not back Israel relentlessly like the US. Most Brits "support" Palestine, not Israel; the British Prime Minister wouldnt dare come out in favour of Israel, the way that Bush & Co do.
Ryan doh talk nonsense nah...UK backing Israel big time, maybe on the DL but anyone with one eye could clearly see that they do!
In 2001 the government of England approved 91 arms export licenses to Israel, in categories that included ammunition, bombs, torpedoes, rockets, missiles, combat vessels, military electronic and imaging equipment and armoured vehicles.
When George Galloway MP, ask de Blair Government for answers, Foreign Office minister Ben Bradshaw said there was "no evidence" that British arms and equipment had been used against the Palestinians.
Truth is the evidence is abundant and clear....Amnesty's report that the Apache helicopters used to attack the Palestinians are kept flying with British parts. (Bradshaw is an active member of Labour Friends of Israel, which has arranged for 57 Labour MPs to visit Israel, the largest number of MPs from any British government.)
You do know who Lord Levi is don't you...check the last name carefully...he is UK's secial envoy to Isreal. Serious Pro Zionist dey.
British MPs receive award for Israel support
Updated: 09/Feb/2007 16:34
LONDON (EJP)--- Three British Members of Parliament have been recognised for their work and support of Israel at a reception in the House of Commons.
Conservative MP David Gauke, Labour MP Barbara Keeley and Liberal Democrat Member of the European Parliament Baroness Sara Ludford were presented with a silver ‘tzdaka’ [charity] box in recognition for the work they do in support of Israel.
The all-party reception, hosted by the Ambassador of Israel to the UK Zvi Heifetz together with Conservative, Labour and Liberal Democrat Friends of Israel, was held last week.
Release call
Each of the politicians have played a significant role in supporting Israel in recent years.
Labour MP Barbara Keeley
Gauke was responsible for introducing a Parliamentary motion last November calling for the unconditional release of the three kidnapped Israeli soldiers, Ehud Goldwasser, Eldad Regev and Gilad Shalit.
The MP has been a member of the Conservative Friends of Israel since March 2001. Last February he initiated a debate on Iran’s nuclear programme and has spoken up in various debates and foreign office questions on Israel and the Middle East.
Keeley, meanwhile, is vice chair of Labour Friends of Israel and has an interest in the role of women in the peace process, she has visited the region and met with representatives of the New Israel Fund. She worked on the 2006 all-party investigation into anti-Semitism. The report called for urgent action from government, police, prosecution services, universities and the Jewish community, to tackle a disturbing rise in anti-Semitism in the UK.
And Baroness Ludford is a well-known supporter of Holocaust remembrance.
Speaking at the European Parliament in December, Baroness Ludford said: “I hope the European Council will express its condemnation of the Holocaust Conference - or, more accurately, the ‘Holocaust Denial Conference’ - just held in Iran. I appreciate the fact that the President of Parliament did just that this morning. It is essential that the European Union makes clear at the highest level - that of the assembled Prime Ministers - its opposition to this outrageous exercise in mischief and hate.”
Conservative MP David Gauke
Good relationship
Ambassador Heifetz welcomed the large number of Members of Parliament who attended saying it “was testimony to the strong and lasting bond between the UK and Israel”. He said: “You are here tonight are contributing much to the UK’s good relationship with Israel.”
He added: “We appreciate your presence here tonight, I know that sometimes even the best of friends do not agree on every issue but our discussions are always constructive. One thing I can assure you is that we will not let you down, we will explore every avenue in our pursuit for peace. After all it is in our interest to achieve peace as soon as possible.”
Jane Kennedy MP, chairman of Labour Friends of Israel introduced proceeding and James Arbuthnot MP, chairman of the Conservative Friends of Israel, thanked the ambassador for hosting the reception.
Speaking at the reception, Arbuthnot said: “Israel’s struggle is a struggle for her very existence. I think we should congratulate the winners for their fantastic friendship of Israel, something which is needed on a daily basis.
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Bakes, US notions of anti-semitism are different in character and degree to European (Western, Central or Eastern) notions of anti-semitism. The haven that Jews found in the US helped to secure the distinctions.
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Bakes, US notions of anti-semitism are different in character and degree to European (Western, Central or Eastern) notions of anti-semitism. The haven that Jews found in the US helped to secure the distinctions.
So the Jews found a haven in the US and what in Europe?
It is obvious that US notions of antisemitism would be different from that of Europe.
They were chased from Europe and found succor here.
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My comment stems from what Bakes wrote. Obvious to me ... obvious to you ... not so obvious to him apparently.
Yeah I honestly don't know... I would suggest though that it's probably more than just US pop culture, and perhaps 'convention' in a western popular culture/context. I agree with your suggestion as to the history, from what I remember much of the religious... and cultural divide among Christianity, Judaism and Islam was 'concretized' following the end of the crusades. European nations became decidely more insular and xenophobic then... continuing thru the early part of the 20th Century. Given it's history then, it's all the more remarkable that the EU was able to take shape.
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;) I know.
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this have to go down as one of the most toots posts of the decade.
I'll save myself the never ending argument and just quietly lament that if even the better read americans pushing this head, then what hope do we have? I'll just pray that Obama read a lil more.
Maybe it serves your particular agenda to label me as "american"... whatever, makes me no difference really.
If you so feel that what I post is 'toots'... then by all means make your case, b/c I guarantee you that I can substantiate everything I say. Unlike some I doh post fuh posting sake.
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Bakes, US notions of anti-semitism are different in character and degree to European (Western, Central or Eastern) notions of anti-semitism. The haven that Jews found in the US helped to secure the distinctions.
i never said that US notions of anti-semitism and European notions are identical in character... what I did say is that the term 'anti-semitism', when used in both the US and Europe context would equally be applied in reference to anti-Jewish actions and/or sentiments. Put another way, in the US and Europe... "anti-semitism" means anti-Jewish. The meaning can be the same w/o the respective cultural notions being identical.
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i dont think anti-semitism is a problem in europe.
French Jewish cemetery attacked (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3551278.stm)
Rabbi stabbed at Paris synagogue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2626825.stm)
New attack on Paris synagogue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1921892.stm)
Anti-Semitism has been a problem in Europe for millennia. In fact, if it hadn't been for European Anti-Semitism then the modern state of Israel would never have been established in the first place.
There will always be some examples of anti-semitism, just as there are examples of every form of bigotry. IMO, while I agre that things can always be improved the situation now is incomparable to the situation at the time when Israel was formed.
Also, the current situation is largely fueled by unfair reprisal attacks on Jews due to Israel's attitude towards Palestine.
Here's another one for you, hot off the press.
Petrol bombs hit French synagogue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7824009.stm)
A lot of these incidents sure seem to happen in France, don't they?
Anyway, you are right in calling them "unfair reprisal attacks", because if the perpetrators truly had a grudge against the Israeli government only then they would be going after the Israeli embassy, rather than synagogues and Jewish cemeteries.
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i dont think anti-semitism is a problem in europe.
French Jewish cemetery attacked (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3551278.stm)
Rabbi stabbed at Paris synagogue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2626825.stm)
New attack on Paris synagogue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1921892.stm)
Anti-Semitism has been a problem in Europe for millennia. In fact, if it hadn't been for European Anti-Semitism then the modern state of Israel would never have been established in the first place.
There will always be some examples of anti-semitism, just as there are examples of every form of bigotry. IMO, while I agre that things can always be improved the situation now is incomparable to the situation at the time when Israel was formed.
Also, the current situation is largely fueled by unfair reprisal attacks on Jews due to Israel's attitude towards Palestine.
Here's another one for you, hot off the press.
Petrol bombs hit French synagogue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7824009.stm)
A lot of these incidents sure seem to happen in France, don't they?
Anyway, you are right in calling them "unfair reprisal attacks", because if the perpetrators truly had a grudge against the Israeli government only then they would be going after the Israeli embassy, rather than synagogues and Jewish cemeteries.
so dey attacking dead people..big deal.
I am not anti semetic, but Israel is damn unfair to the peoples of other religions in dat area.
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Bakes, US notions of anti-semitism are different in character and degree to European (Western, Central or Eastern) notions of anti-semitism. The haven that Jews found in the US helped to secure the distinctions.
i never said that US notions of anti-semitism and European notions are identical in character... what I did say is that the term 'anti-semitism', when used in both the US and Europe context would equally be applied in reference to anti-Jewish actions and/or sentiments. Put another way, in the US and Europe... "anti-semitism" means anti-Jewish. The meaning can be the same w/o the respective cultural notions being identical.
I agree, you never used the word 'identical'. Perhaps you should have addressed completely the words you did use.