Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
General => General Discussion => Trinidad and Tobago History => Topic started by: Savannah boy on February 03, 2009, 12:11:47 PM
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http://www.tramz.com/tt/tt.html
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de good old days,wonder wuh was de murder rate back then.
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I really wonder why they did away with it. Transport Systems like that provide a lot of jobs and it safe. Yuh pay with tokens and tickets these days. Yuh cyah rob dem. Yuh have to rob de tram car station where police waiting for yuh. What we have now is PH Drivers filling de gaps in our transport system and getting kill.
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Might as well bring dat back to POS yes. :beermug:
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savannah boy
thanks for that info. great !!
;D
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might as well add
(http://www.nidco.co.tt/images/stories/easygallery/38/1226873214_1.jpg)
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yeah great post. Love those old pictures.
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http://www.tramz.com/tt/tt.html
Thank You
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Thank you for that learning experience Savannah :beermug:
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Nice read, very informative.
Are there any model train enthusiasts on the site?
Started to get into it would be nice to see some of the layouts.
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You all are welcome. Ah doh always post shit talk all de time yuh know. Somebody e-mail meh dat and it touched a nerve to see de way de country looked back then. You go places like Toronto or San Francisco where dey still have dem modes of transportation and yuh wonder why we did away with it. We packing we country with cars left and right. It not good for the air we breathing and it have traffic everywhere. We have no commuter lanes. Crime makes park and (share) rides and carpooling impossible. Dey should stop giving out Driver's Permits like in Singapore. Top off the amount of driver's on the roads. New Permits are for weekends only. Unlimited Permits will be issued as people retire from driving, dey dead or move abroad or something. And de blasted Govt have to stop bringing in foreign owned vehicles. Doh have cheaper alternatives to make people buy cars jes for so. Some of dem foolish yutemen in particular doh need no car...is only fete or banditry dat many of dem studying.
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I sent this link to every body on my contact list and also to a couple of people at my job. So now by tomorrow I know I'll have to answer one set of upteen questions.... :P
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You all are welcome. Ah doh always post shit talk all de time yuh know. Somebody e-mail meh dat and it touched a nerve to see de way de country looked back then. You go places like Toronto or San Francisco where dey still have dem modes of transportation and yuh wonder why we did away with it. We packing we country with cars left and right. It not good for the air we breathing and it have traffic everywhere. We have no commuter lanes. Crime makes park and (share) rides and carpooling impossible. Dey should stop giving out Driver's Permits like in Singapore. Top off the amount of driver's on the roads. New Permits are for weekends only. Unlimited Permits will be issued as people retire from driving, dey dead or move abroad or something. And de blasted Govt have to stop bringing in foreign owned vehicles. Doh have cheaper alternatives to make people buy cars jes for so. Some of dem foolish yutemen in particular doh need no car...is only fete or banditry dat many of dem studying.
Trams are extremely unsafe, which is why you hardly see them anymore... in fact the only place I've ever encountered them personally is in Philadelphia.
...but great opening post, wonderful pictures.
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Nice find. My grandfather used to repair and maintain the trams. I will show him the pictures.
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You all are welcome. Ah doh always post shit talk all de time yuh know. Somebody e-mail meh dat and it touched a nerve to see de way de country looked back then. You go places like Toronto or San Francisco where dey still have dem modes of transportation and yuh wonder why we did away with it. We packing we country with cars left and right. It not good for the air we breathing and it have traffic everywhere. We have no commuter lanes. Crime makes park and (share) rides and carpooling impossible. Dey should stop giving out Driver's Permits like in Singapore. Top off the amount of driver's on the roads. New Permits are for weekends only. Unlimited Permits will be issued as people retire from driving, dey dead or move abroad or something. And de blasted Govt have to stop bringing in foreign owned vehicles. Doh have cheaper alternatives to make people buy cars jes for so. Some of dem foolish yutemen in particular doh need no car...is only fete or banditry dat many of dem studying.
Trams are extremely unsafe, which is why you hardly see them anymore... in fact the only place I've ever encountered them personally is in Philadelphia.
...but great opening post, wonderful pictures.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by "extremely unsafe" in that statement?
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Unsafe? I doubt that transport officials in Toronto and San Francisco would agree with you as these services are still in effect. I lived in San Francisco for 12 years. Their rail systems are still operating historic streetcars, modern light rail vehicles, alternative fuel vehicles, electric trolley coaches, and the world famous cable cars. All transportation vehicles in that city including buses and rapid transit trains are equipped with cameras on board and plain clothes police. I did not feel threatened. I mean if yuh going somewhere say after midnight anywhere, yuh doh expect de cream of de crop to be with yuh on public transport. Nuff bandit and pipers does move at night. Buy my feeling is dat the city took all pre-cautions to make the public as safe as possible while on the transit vehicles...even the Trams (Street Cars).
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You all are welcome. Ah doh always post shit talk all de time yuh know. Somebody e-mail meh dat and it touched a nerve to see de way de country looked back then. You go places like Toronto or San Francisco where dey still have dem modes of transportation and yuh wonder why we did away with it. We packing we country with cars left and right. It not good for the air we breathing and it have traffic everywhere. We have no commuter lanes. Crime makes park and (share) rides and carpooling impossible. Dey should stop giving out Driver's Permits like in Singapore. Top off the amount of driver's on the roads. New Permits are for weekends only. Unlimited Permits will be issued as people retire from driving, dey dead or move abroad or something. And de blasted Govt have to stop bringing in foreign owned vehicles. Doh have cheaper alternatives to make people buy cars jes for so. Some of dem foolish yutemen in particular doh need no car...is only fete or banditry dat many of dem studying.
Trams are extremely unsafe, which is why you hardly see them anymore... in fact the only place I've ever encountered them personally is in Philadelphia.
...but great opening post, wonderful pictures.
is not trams unsafe, is philadelphia.
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Can you elaborate on what you mean by "extremely unsafe" in that statement?
Accidents and electrocutions... trams are notorious.
I should note that Baltimore is another city that I personally know of with a "light rail" system... Savannah boy mentioned San Fran... forgot about that one too, but never been so couldn't speak from personal experience on that.
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Unsafe? I doubt that transport officials in Toronto and San Francisco would agree with you as these services are still in effect. I lived in San Francisco for 12 years. Their rail systems are still operating historic streetcars, modern light rail vehicles, alternative fuel vehicles, electric trolley coaches, and the world famous cable cars. All transportation vehicles in that city including buses and rapid transit trains are equipped with cameras on board and plain clothes police. I did not feel threatened. I mean if yuh going somewhere say after midnight anywhere, yuh doh expect de cream of de crop to be with yuh on public transport. Nuff bandit and pipers does move at night. Buy my feeling is dat the city took all pre-cautions to make the public as safe as possible while on the transit vehicles...even the Trams (Street Cars).
If I wanted to address crime in the city then I would have said that "X city is extremely unsafe"... what you're referring to is safety within the City of San Francisco, which I won't doubt. I was speaking specifically about the dangers posed by trams and trolleys themselves, not the bandits, who can be found everywhere, including in private vehicles.
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I sent the link to friend in Toronto and this was her reply:
"fantastic images, hard to imagine that Trinidad's past resembled Toronto's present. "
So my question to the fellows up east of meh - any confirmation on the above statement ?
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when I was in Toronto recently I used their streetcar system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_streetcar_system
it is great
there are trolley buses in Edmonton and Vancouver
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Bakes, I have travelled on the Baltimore light railway from Glen Burnie to Oriole park with my son to a baseball game. Crowded for b-ball. It is pretty cool, though.
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Up in Marin county by SF they just approved this kind of system:
(http://www.unimodal.net/images/stories/skytranseattle.jpg)
http://www.marinij.com/marinnews/ci_11572988
http://www.unimodal.com/
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Can you elaborate on what you mean by "extremely unsafe" in that statement?
Accidents and electrocutions... trams are notorious.
I should note that Baltimore is another city that I personally know of with a "light rail" system... Savannah boy mentioned San Fran... forgot about that one too, but never been so couldn't speak from personal experience on that.
Trams in various forms are extremely popular in Europe and are being used as solutions to reduce gridlock in several US cities. Many cities in the US that deal with surburban sprawl have begun developing park and ride initiatives e.g. Charlotte recently finished construction of a 15 station light rail system, Atlanta has a small system and they are looking to expand, San Diego has a system that is being expanded, Dallas, Sacramento, etc. Once engineered correctly, they reduce GHG production and in most instances, decrease transit time.
With respect to safety, I disagree with your assessment. Several studies have shown that instances of tram accidents actually decrease as the population becomes familiar with practices. Additionally, it appears that pedestrians in general (both US and Europe) have less respect for light rail systems than for buses. High rates of accidents at stops, crossings and stations result from people jumping out in front of the vehicle assuming it has a shorter stop distance. Even with that, modern rail systems have a much lower fatality risk per vehicle per mile than bus systems which is remarkable considering the fact that bus systems cover far more distance than rail systems.
Another reason for the seeming bad reputation of tram systems is the extent of injury once an incident does occur. Most of those vehicles are not equipped with protective shielding to reduce exposure to the iron wheels which are much less forgiving than bus tyres.
As for electrocution risks, I'm not aware of peer reviewed studies that compare to other modes of public transportation.
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Trams in various forms are extremely popular in Europe and are being used as solutions to reduce gridlock in several US cities. Many cities in the US that deal with surburban sprawl have begun developing park and ride initiatives e.g. Charlotte recently finished construction of a 15 station light rail system, Atlanta has a small system and they are looking to expand, San Diego has a system that is being expanded, Dallas, Sacramento, etc. Once engineered correctly, they reduce GHG production and in most instances, decrease transit time.
Okay... so there are other ancillary benefits to trams.
How does any of the above disprove the notion that they pose a safety risk?
With respect to safety, I disagree with your assessment. Several studies have shown that instances of tram accidents actually decrease as the population becomes familiar with practices. Additionally, it appears that pedestrians in general (both US and Europe) have less respect for light rail systems than for buses. High rates of accidents at stops, crossings and stations result from people jumping out in front of the vehicle assuming it has a shorter stop distance.
I'm not sure how any of this helps your argument. I never said trams are inherently dangerous in themselves (risk of electrocution aside)... the same way guns aren't inherently dangerous. In the hands of the wrong individual a gun becomes dangerous. Put into the wrong situation trams become dangerous. Even if you put the fault for the accidents on the population that, only concedes the danger of the mix, rather than disproving it. You don't throw trams into the fray and hope to educate the population afterwards. What's an acceptable accident rate until the population learns to live with trams?
Even with that, modern rail systems have a much lower fatality risk per vehicle per mile than bus systems which is remarkable considering the fact that bus systems cover far more distance than rail systems.
There's something amiss with this statement... maybe you meant to state the opposite, because if bus systems cover more miles than tram systems then it's totally understandable that greater exposure to the public would result in higher accident rates as well.
Another reason for the seeming bad reputation of tram systems is the extent of injury once an incident does occur. Most of those vehicles are not equipped with protective shielding to reduce exposure to the iron wheels which are much less forgiving than bus tyres.
Again... at pain of sounding like a broken record, I'm not sure how that disproves my assertion that trams are a safety risk.
As for electrocution risks, I'm not aware of peer reviewed studies that compare to other modes of public transportation.
Most of my knowledge of this is based on anecdotal evidence... reports in newspapers, magazines etc. Not sure if there's even been any actual studies.
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On balance trams are more desirable than buses, particularly where the impact on the environment is concerned. However lost in all this is the impact on the power grid that trams would have on Trinidad... a place where outtages and rolling blackouts (unless I'm mistaken) are still fairly prevalent. Additionally, are trams really an option in a place like POS where flooding is still rampant? Development has only served to exacerbate the problem rather than alleviate it... so fair to assume that flooding would pose a greater obstacle than it did during earlier implementations of the trolley/tram system.
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Trams in various forms are extremely popular in Europe and are being used as solutions to reduce gridlock in several US cities. Many cities in the US that deal with surburban sprawl have begun developing park and ride initiatives e.g. Charlotte recently finished construction of a 15 station light rail system, Atlanta has a small system and they are looking to expand, San Diego has a system that is being expanded, Dallas, Sacramento, etc. Once engineered correctly, they reduce GHG production and in most instances, decrease transit time.
Okay... so there are other ancillary benefits to trams.
How does any of the above disprove the notion that they pose a safety risk?
Those examples were provided for the gratification of others who are reading the thread as well as draw attention to the fact that trams are a common option. No point to make or take re: safety.
With respect to safety, I disagree with your assessment. Several studies have shown that instances of tram accidents actually decrease as the population becomes familiar with practices. Additionally, it appears that pedestrians in general (both US and Europe) have less respect for light rail systems than for buses. High rates of accidents at stops, crossings and stations result from people jumping out in front of the vehicle assuming it has a shorter stop distance.
I'm not sure how any of this helps your argument. I never said trams are inherently dangerous in themselves (risk of electrocution aside)... the same way guns aren't inherently dangerous. In the hands of the wrong individual a gun becomes dangerous. Put into the wrong situation trams become dangerous. Even if you put the fault for the accidents on the population that, only concedes the danger of the mix, rather than disproving it. You don't throw trams into the fray and hope to educate the population afterwards. What's an acceptable accident rate until the population learns to live with trams?
I think we both agree that all public transportation options have inherent risks. I however, disagree with your assertion that trams are not common because they are somehow more unsafe than other options. Since buses are the primary alternative to tram systems, I thought it would be worth comparing them to show that even though buses appear to have a higher incident rate, they are quite common. As trams become more common, incident rates will undoubtedly increase but based on the information that is widely available, its does not appear that safety considerations will hinder their implementation. The primary reason for them being uncommon is the infrastructure required. Take it for what its worth.
As for education, it is necessary but you can only explain so much. When we fly on a plane, we are directed to the safety booklet. Studies have shown that 50% of people choose not to read the information. Bad analogy but the point is, sometimes the old saying, who doh hear does feel, applies.
Within that context, whats an acceptable accident rate? I'm not privy to the risk analyses performed in T&T but it would differ per location. In some aspects, an acceptable rate would be one lower than the current primary mode of transportation but again, it would differ per locality.
Even with that, modern rail systems have a much lower fatality risk per vehicle per mile than bus systems which is remarkable considering the fact that bus systems cover far more distance than rail systems.
There's something amiss with this statement... maybe you meant to state the opposite, because if bus systems cover more miles than tram systems then it's totally understandable that greater exposure to the public would result in higher accident rates as well.
Incidence rates for trams are lower as compared to buses that travel the same distance with similar population densities.
Another reason for the seeming bad reputation of tram systems is the extent of injury once an incident does occur. Most of those vehicles are not equipped with protective shielding to reduce exposure to the iron wheels which are much less forgiving than bus tyres.
Again... at pain of sounding like a broken record, I'm not sure how that disproves my assertion that trams are a safety risk.
My point here is to show that public perception can significantly alter what we think is safe vs. unsafe.
As for electrocution risks, I'm not aware of peer reviewed studies that compare to other modes of public transportation.
Most of my knowledge of this is based on anecdotal evidence... reports in newspapers, magazines etc. Not sure if there's even been any actual studies.
There are numerous peer reviewed studies that examine these issues.
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On balance trams are more desirable than buses, particularly where the impact on the environment is concerned. However lost in all this is the impact on the power grid that trams would have on Trinidad... a place where outtages and rolling blackouts (unless I'm mistaken) are still fairly prevalent. Additionally, are trams really an option in a place like POS where flooding is still rampant? Development has only served to exacerbate the problem rather than alleviate it... so fair to assume that flooding would pose a greater obstacle than it did during earlier implementations of the trolley/tram system.
The system that is being considered in Trinidad will be an elevated light rail/monorail system. As I alluded to earlier, infrastructure is the common limiting factor. There was a thread where we discussed the tendering process extensively and I was completely against the procedure used by the ministry at that time because there were no feasibility studies performed. As a result, limitations with respect to access due to flooding, power supplies, security, land access, connection options etc are still largely unknown to the general population. We can agree that if we do not do the relevant groundwork, our good intentions can pave the road to hell aka debt.
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Fair post noname... I understand and agree with the central thrust regarding public education and considering alternative transportation options.
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Up in Marin county by SF they just approved this kind of system:
(http://www.unimodal.net/images/stories/skytranseattle.jpg)
http://www.marinij.com/marinnews/ci_11572988
http://www.unimodal.com/
That looking real dimfront indeed
what about safety in each pod?
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wow.... i love those old pics of T&T
great thread!
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Them old time trams look real nice...open air 'motoring' and plenty leg room
Even the conductors was dressed nice....but dem must have been sweatin like hell
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I really wonder why they did away with it. Transport Systems like that provide a lot of jobs and it safe. Yuh pay with tokens and tickets these days. Yuh cyah rob dem. Yuh have to rob de tram car station where police waiting for yuh. What we have now is PH Drivers filling de gaps in our transport system and getting kill.
good points
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Accidents and electrocutions.
Accident is human error. I never hear anybody get shock in SF even dem chupid youth who does jump on de back bumpers and pull down one or both of the poles that connected to the electric wires above to stop de vehicle for kicks and run off.
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There are many reasons why the trams could not be sustained in TT.
1. Lot more traffic now as then . ( Especially delvery type vehicles)
2. Change in demographics. ( The city has expanded outwards )
3. Infrastructure upgrades necessary.
4. The HV lines that are normally at a low level would impact on the safe use of larger vehicles.
5. The volumes that it could sustain.
6. The road network having to adapt or being designed to accommodate .
7. There are inherent safety issues to cater for. ( The dislodged connectors are normally re-connected by the operator using a pole and gloves , low level of maneuverability etc )
Most countries that have them still probably do so for the novelty or romanticsm of them
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Nice post :beermug:
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There are many reasons why the trams could not be sustained in TT.
1. Lot more traffic now as then . ( Especially delvery type vehicles)
Maybe there would be less traffic if the trams were still in use???
2. Change in demographics. ( The city has expanded outwards )
Trams are not used for mass transit over large areas...it is primarily used to move people thru villages towns etc.
3. Infrastructure upgrades necessary.
So what? Traffic, grid lock and pollution, may well be worth it
4. The HV lines that are normally at a low level would impact on the safe use of larger vehicles.
Stop those larger vehicles from entering the streets with trams!
5. The volumes that it could sustain.
Large amounts of traffic already pervasive, won't a tram alleviate some of that? Workers, vendors, shoppers, school children
6. The road network having to adapt or being designed to accommodate .
engineers, put them to work
7. There are inherent safety issues to cater for. ( The dislodged connectors are normally re-connected by the operator using a pole and gloves , low level of maneuverability etc )
what tram is that boss, in some backward country? Trams not like that again, if you see dem trams in Australia! Modern trolleys often use a metal shoe with a carbon insert instead of a trolley wheel. Besides trams are making a comeback (light rail) all over the place!
Most countries that have them still probably do so for the novelty or romanticsm of them
NOPE! Many have them for the necessity!
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There are many reasons why the trams could not be sustained in TT.
1. Lot more traffic now as then . ( Especially delvery type vehicles)
Maybe there would be less traffic if the trams were still in use???
2. Change in demographics. ( The city has expanded outwards )
Trams are not used for mass transit over large areas...it is primarily used to move people thru villages towns etc.
3. Infrastructure upgrades necessary.
So what? Traffic, grid lock and pollution, may well be worth it
4. The HV lines that are normally at a low level would impact on the safe use of larger vehicles.
Stop those larger vehicles from entering the streets with trams!
5. The volumes that it could sustain.
Large amounts of traffic already pervasive, won't a tram alleviate some of that? Workers, vendors, shoppers, school children
6. The road network having to adapt or being designed to accommodate .
engineers, put them to work
7. There are inherent safety issues to cater for. ( The dislodged connectors are normally re-connected by the operator using a pole and gloves , low level of maneuverability etc )
what tram is that boss, in some backward country? Trams not like that again, if you see dem trams in Australia! Modern trolleys often use a metal shoe with a carbon insert instead of a trolley wheel. Besides trams are making a comeback (light rail) all over the place!
Most countries that have them still probably do so for the novelty or romanticsm of them
NOPE! Many have them for the necessity!
So no delivery trucks allowed where trams run... but trams would have to run everywhere in order for them to be effectively utile to the population. Therefore a ban on large vehicles would mean that there would be no commercial deliveries in high traffic areas. High traffic areas are where most commerce is conducted and is both the cause and result of the commerce located there. In short your proposal becomes self-defeating.
I could probably make similar counter-arguments for every other response you made to fishs points, but this stands out the most.
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there will be accomodation for deliveries, roads run parallel to tram ways all the time. No other traffic
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there will be accomodation for deliveries, roads run parallel to tram ways all the time. No other traffic
You realized that this is Trinidad we talking about, right? Congested-ass Port of Spain of the narrow, constricted antiquated streets? Where they going and build all dem parallel roads... ontop ah buildings? Underground?
Look, I all for anything that would alleviate traffic congestion and the impact on the environment. However, I think many of us are talking about how trams have been implemented in other countries without keeping the relevant context in mind... there are specific challenges that are particular to Trinidad which complicates implementation there.
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there will be accomodation for deliveries, roads run parallel to tram ways all the time. No other traffic
You realized that this is Trinidad we talking about, right? Congested-ass Port of Spain of the narrow, constricted antiquated streets? Where they going and build all dem parallel roads... ontop ah buildings? Underground?
Look, I all for anything that would alleviate traffic congestion and the impact on the environment. However, I think many of us are talking about how trams have been implemented in other countries without keeping the relevant context in mind... there are specific challenges that are particular to Trinidad which complicates implementation there.
That is my point entirely.
You can compare apples to mangoes.
Name one street in Trinidad and Tobago that could accommodate this system of transport now ?
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The streets are the same. We certainly would not be able to park cars if the tram was still in services.
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you do realize that there are two lanes and sometimes three in POS right?
Parking cars? thats what we dont want, we want the roads to be free and clear and open!
Therre are many roads in England that have stores lining them on either side yet no vehicles can enter them.
A VERY simple solution would be to have deliveries ONLY at a certain time! Problem solved!
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what tram is that boss, in some backward country? Trams not like that again
The man might be referring to trolley buses which are quite common in developed countries.
The thing is dat people wonder why we got rid of the system in T&T in the first place. The sytem was efficient. You did not have to drive yourself and the flood of Taxis, Maxis and man who pulling bull with PH car is the resulting attempt to fill that vacuum. Now you talking about parking and traffic. This could have been avoided with planning and simple upgrading. Going electric these days and avoiding gas and diesel is not going counter to what is required nowadays. It was a blown opportunity in hindsight I admit.
Other major cities and countries upgraded their systems. The idea is to keep cars off the streets. Now you would find large buildings with multiple floors only for parking in cities like these, something that is not common in T&T particularly in P.O.S. As TT indicated, you could restrict the times for parking. During commute hours there is no parking allowed on major streets to assist public transportation in many cities.
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you do realize that there are two lanes and sometimes three in POS right?
Parking cars? thats what we dont want, we want the roads to be free and clear and open!
Therre are many roads in England that have stores lining them on either side yet no vehicles can enter them.
A VERY simple solution would be to have deliveries ONLY at a certain time! Problem solved!
in that case, T&T woudnt have to spend money on light rail to improve the traffic situation....just some prudent city planning
I was readin in greece cars with certain plates are allowed to enter the city on certain days (mon, wed etc)
of course in trini...there is the issue of enforcement
readin through the posts..I and all gettin tie up...is the idea here to bring back trolleys..as in..tracks laid into the street?
or just a light rail..which can be suspended overhead
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Not sure about the trolley lines, but the Trinidad Railway was last run by Eric James who was also the football czar before Jack Warner. Here are some stories:
14 May 1933:
Future of Trinidad's Government Railway
It is officially stated that a proposal to amalgamate the Trinidad Government Railway and the Public Works Department is at present under consideration.
As already reported, the Hon. M. A. Murphy, Director of Public Works will retire in the next three months and if the amalgamation is effected it is likely that the new Director of Public Works will be a transport specialist.
In semi-official circles it is believed that this amalgamation proposal is the outcome of certain recommendations made in the Report on the working of the Railway by Mr. A. S. Cooper, the Railway expert who recently visited Trinidad.
Mr. Cooper's report on the Trinidad Government Railway is still being held as a confidential paper, although his report on the Demerara transport system, surveyed after he left Trinidad, was issued some time ago."
26 April 1956:
Railway Abolition Urged, UK expert sees 'chaotic traffic'
PORT OF SPAIN, April 26: The report of the British Transport consultant, Mr. Arthur Jessop, who spent nine weeks here, proposes the gradual closing down and eventual complete abolition of the 80-year-old Trinidad Government Railway system.
Mr. Jessop refers to the serious decline in passenger traffic, plus a stagnant goods traffic situation which cost the Railway 18 million dollars in the last 11 years.
Drastic economies failed to help, and even with modernisation and continuation of the system in a modified form it will continue to be a liability on public funds, Mr. Jessop says.
He comments favourably on Trinidad's road development.
He says Trinidad and Tobago have 1.35 miles of road per square mile, and 250 people per square mile of road, compared with Jamaica's 1.07 and 338, respectively, and Britain's 2.00 and 277.
He calls for action to deal with the "chaotic traffic situation" by regulating the licensing of taxis in accordance with need plus regulation of taxi drivers' licenses.
He adds that the unfair and wasteful taxi competition is threatening to stultify bus enterprise, and suggests operation of double-decker buses on suitable routes, also a one-man bus operation, with the driver acting as conductor.
Centralising of the existing bus services has also been recommended.
12 July 1961:
Fifteen hurt in Trinidad rail mishap
PORT OF SPAIN, July 12: An after-lunch train laden with workers from Tunapuna, about eight miles away in east Trinidad derailed in Port of Spain yesterday. Fifteen persons were injured.
As the train was coming to a halt in Port of Spain, a heavy metal coupling on one of the five cars drawn by a diesel powered engine, snapped. The cars jumped the track and crushed into one another; women screamed and panicked.
Engineers of the Trinidad Government Railways immediately investigated and said that they were puzzled at the cause of the derailment. Workers of the Arima Bus Company operating along the East of Trinidad route from Port of Spain have been on strike two days now.
An inquiry is to be held into the derailment.
25 August 1961:
Trinidad rail strike set for Monday
PORT OF SPAIN, Aug. 25: The acting general manager of the Trinidad Government Railway, Mr. Eric James is expected to have a strike on his hands from Monday.
An executive of the Civil Service Association has set the walkout for that day to protest the re-employment of a penionser, Mr. C. Bastien, as a temporary traffic officer at the railway.
Mr. Bastien was re-employed in May and since then the C.S.A. has been seeking termination of his appointment.
In announcing the strike date, the .C.S.A. pointed out: "the association has to take step with much reluctance and regret but the association is now convinced that all means of bringing this dispute to an amicable settlement have been used by the association without success."
26 August 1961:
Trinidad rail strike off
PORT OF SPAIN, Aug. 26: The threatened strike at the Trinidad Government Railway is off, as Mr. Cecil Bastien, a pensioner, has been removed from the department.
A circular signed by the acting manager, Mr. Eric James, and sent to the Railway Department of the C.S.A. states: "I am directed by the Ministry of Finance to inform you that Mr. Cecil Bastien, temporary traffic officer attached to the railway from June 1, has ceased to fill the capacity as a result of being called to a special assignment in the Ministry of Finance.
Filling the post of temporary traffic officer will engage the attention of the Railway Board."
24 November 1961
James named Railway manager
PORT OF SPAIN, Nov. 24: MR. ERIC JAMES, Secretary of the Caribbean Football Association, has been appointed General Manager of Trinidad Government Railway, a post in which he has been acting from March 29.
(http://www.railcar.co.uk/pics/100-109/109advert.jpg)
Class 109 Wickham 2-car sets
The first sets entered traffic in the autumn of 1957. They were surplus soon after introduction, and being a 'non-standard' design allowed BR to sell back two sets in September 1961 at the request of Wickham & Co who had overseas buyers for them, the Trinidad Government Railway. They were exported to Trinidad & Tobago, and they operated the 'Last Train to San Fernando' as immortalised in the song. By 1980 at least one car had been grounded and used as a road side cafe!
(http://www.moe.gov.tt/cyberfair/websites/Secondary/StStephensCollege/CyberFairWebsite_files/image4911.jpg)
Locomotive Of The Royal Train -1880
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you do realize that there are two lanes and sometimes three in POS right?
Parking cars? thats what we dont want, we want the roads to be free and clear and open!
Therre are many roads in England that have stores lining them on either side yet no vehicles can enter them.
A VERY simple solution would be to have deliveries ONLY at a certain time! Problem solved!
You just arguing fuh de sake of arguing yes.
How many of these two and three (which essentially means 4 and 6 lanes for two-way traffic) lane streets are there in POS? Or are we only going to have limited tram service... restricted to the rare arteries that offers these multiple lanes?
These streets in England you're talking about, I don't know about them... never been. However, I'm sure that like in the US, there are alleys and backstreets to allow for deliveries.
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you do realize that there are two lanes and sometimes three in POS right?
Parking cars? thats what we dont want, we want the roads to be free and clear and open!
Therre are many roads in England that have stores lining them on either side yet no vehicles can enter them.
A VERY simple solution would be to have deliveries ONLY at a certain time! Problem solved!
in that case, T&T woudnt have to spend money on light rail to improve the traffic situation....just some prudent city planning
I was readin in greece cars with certain plates are allowed to enter the city on certain days (mon, wed etc)
of course in trini...there is the issue of enforcement
readin through the posts..I and all gettin tie up...is the idea here to bring back trolleys..as in..tracks laid into the street?
or just a light rail..which can be suspended overhead
Light rail still runs on tracks in the streets, I think you're referring to elevated trams/cars.
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12 July 1961:
Fifteen hurt in Trinidad rail mishap
PORT OF SPAIN, July 12: An after-lunch train laden with workers from Tunapuna, about eight miles away in east Trinidad derailed in Port of Spain yesterday. Fifteen persons were injured.
As the train was coming to a halt in Port of Spain, a heavy metal coupling on one of the five cars drawn by a diesel powered engine, snapped. The cars jumped the track and crushed into one another; women screamed and panicked.
Engineers of the Trinidad Government Railways immediately investigated and said that they were puzzled at the cause of the derailment. Workers of the Arima Bus Company operating along the East of Trinidad route from Port of Spain have been on strike two days now.
An inquiry is to be held into the derailment.
So what dey trying to insinuate?
:rotfl:
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you do realize that there are two lanes and sometimes three in POS right?
Parking cars? thats what we dont want, we want the roads to be free and clear and open!
Therre are many roads in England that have stores lining them on either side yet no vehicles can enter them.
A VERY simple solution would be to have deliveries ONLY at a certain time! Problem solved!
You just arguing fuh de sake of arguing yes.
How many of these two and three (which essentially means 4 and 6 lanes for two-way traffic) lane streets are there in POS? Or are we only going to have limited tram service... restricted to the rare arteries that offers these multiple lanes?
These streets in England you're talking about, I don't know about them... never been. However, I'm sure that like in the US, there are alleys and backstreets to allow for deliveries.
Like you eh from Trinidad or wha?
The roads are ALL one way in POS fella and in South too! so is 3 lanes going in one direction, haul yuh Grenadian backside
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If I were to imagine a light rail system in T&T there would be 2 types, an intercity connector, that would link major population areas, and an inner-city service - what we're calling trams here.
An inner-city service would have to replace cars, not to operate alongside them. Delivery vehicles would still operate and be unaffected by overhead lines which should be high enough to allow trucks to pass. Rails can be set more-or-less flush to the street surface allowing cars and trams to operate on the same roadway.
You also don't need them to operate on every street, only close enough to be able to comfortable walk to a stop. A loop around Independance, Henry, Gordon and St Vincent would cover from Nelson street to Richmond, as well as the blocks it encloses.
The real trick is to find parking for cars coming to the city.
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The real trick is to find parking for cars coming to the city.
ez.eradicate de slums they call de beetham and construct ah multi story parkin facility and have ah shuttle system put in place or them tram cars goin into de heart ah town.
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If I were to imagine a light rail system in T&T there would be 2 types, an intercity connector, that would link major population areas, and an inner-city service - what we're calling trams here.
An inner-city service would have to replace cars, not to operate alongside them. Delivery vehicles would still operate and be unaffected by overhead lines which should be high enough to allow trucks to pass. Rails can be set more-or-less flush to the street surface allowing cars and trams to operate on the same roadway.
You also don't need them to operate on every street, only close enough to be able to comfortable walk to a stop. A loop around Independance, Henry, Gordon and St Vincent would cover from Nelson street to Richmond, as well as the blocks it encloses.
The real trick is to find parking for cars coming to the city.
EXACTLY!
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Alluh could real argue boy, like allyuh can't see back then they didn't have much vehicles so the tramcar and trains was necessary.only when motor vehicles started getting prevalent there was no need for the trams anymore.
but it looks like cars and trams got along fine back then BC only the rich could've afford ah car back in the early 1900.
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Alluh could real argue boy, like allyuh can't see back then they didn't have much vehicles so the tramcar and trains was necessary.only when motor vehicles started getting prevalent there was no need for the trams anymore.
but it looks like cars and trams got along fine back then BC only the rich could've afford ah car back in the early 1900.
This the rumshop part of the forum.
Men talking bout trains, trams, trolleys, sky train, rapid rail, trucks et al , ah just waiting for religion and sex talk to start here.
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Alluh could real argue boy, like allyuh can't see back then they didn't have much vehicles so the tramcar and trains was necessary.only when motor vehicles started getting prevalent there was no need for the trams anymore.
but it looks like cars and trams got along fine back then BC only the rich could've afford ah car back in the early 1900.
This the rumshop part of the forum.
Men talking bout trains, trams, trolleys, sky train, rapid rail, trucks et al , ah just waiting for religion and sex talk to start here.
some Gods dont like you having sex in a tram or trolley
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http://www.tramz.com/tt/tt.html