Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Peter on March 30, 2009, 12:25:55 AM
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I am just disgusted with our so-called football "supporters".
I attended our recent World Cup 2010 Qualifying match vs Honduras. Before the match started I seeing alot of people wining and jumping up to the music, so told myself the team's going to get good vocal support, but to my amazement, as soon as it started, and the time to make noise arrived, everyone was as quiet as a damned church mouse.
Throughout the match I was most likely one of if not the Loudest person in that whole stadium(and I'm not a very loud person) I was singing at the top of my lungs in between cheering every touch our players made and booing every touch of the Honduran players(was booing now and then though,many times I just cheered our players to defend hard and get back the ball, jury's out on which is better though, I think the latter.). I was trying to make up for the 15000 church mice that packed out the Hasely Crawford stadium. To top it all off people had the nerve to watch me with the, "Wha wrong with he, why he making so much noise and being different " look. What in the world is wrong with us as Trinidadians!!?
People seem think attending your team's World Cup qualifying football match is like going to the movies,newsflash-it isn't! We are supposed to be the 12th man. Our presence alone barely does anything, because if there was a twelfth player on our team who just stood there still on the field, and didn't participate in the game, he'd be almost useless. Likewise if everyone just sits there quietly, their impact is very small. The visiting team soon forgets they are surrounded by more than 20000 foreigners, who would like nothing less than for them to utterly fail, and they then get comfortable and play their usual game. The visiting team is not supposed to be unaffected and able to play at their usual pace! The mere fact that Fifa has as a punishment that the offending team must play a match at an empty stadium acknowledges the tremendous impact supporters can have on their team.
The reason teams fear going to Anfield and face Liverpool in the Champions League, is because of the atmosphere the crowd generates, thats likened onto a "Cauldron", this driving on from their supporters, and intimidation of the visiting teams(which assists in them making more mistakes and generally not flowing as they normally would), makes Liverpool consistently punch above their weight in the champions league at Anfield particularly. With the lack of vocal support our team gets most of the time in Trinidad, its almost as if every game they play is an away game. Besides the issues with management etc, I think thats a contributing factor to why we've only qualified for one world cup, even though we've had so many talented players through the years. If every game throughout for some EPL team was an away game, that team would win nothing and probably likely get relegated come the end of the season. That statement isn't a stretch, thats about how important the home advantage is.
In matches people only cheer when the team comes close to scoring, when if they cheer them on throughout the match, with the heightened confidence and drive that generates in the players(and intimidation and nervousness in opponents), they most likely would drive forward with more intensity and create more chances, thereby scoring more goals, winning more games, and getting more points- hence achieving more in general. This even helps "crappy" players and teams perform better, much more for our players, a number of which are exceptionally talented. It will also help our *ahem* slightly lacking players to perform better and with more drive and determination at our home games. Why do you think club teams generally play better at home? Its not some magical thing, its the supporters' backing- knowing that tens of thousands of people are cheering for *you* is bound to have an impact on any human being. We must not forget that half(!) of our qualifying games are at home, so if we can consistently perform at a different level at home(thus picking up more points), coupled with picking up some points away, we'll be a very productive and feared team.
The recent qualifying match between USA and El Salvador(EL Salvador completely dominated USA and scored 2 in the first half, only to let it slip to a 2-2 draw) was a good example of how much an impact the crowd can have on the game. Goal.com even ran a story attesting to the impact the crowd had on the match and the performance of their team(and lack thereof on USA's part). Another example of the crowd's impact on the games result is Iran and their home games in the Azadi stadium. Teams FEAR going to play Iran there, and watching Iran's record at that stadium, you would swear they were Brazil in disguise. Search Azadi Stadium on Youtube.
Trinidadians, we must be a nation of leaders and not followers. We can talk when its about trivial things, but when times come around that our voice can have an impact and make a difference, said voice vanishes. Why when I'm cheering at the top of my lungs for OUR team, I get people watching me like," Why he doesn't stay quiet like everyone else around him?" and others looking at each other as if to say,"You start cheering first,"and,"I'm only one person, what difference can my one voice make?" So what naturally followed was that everyone in the stadium said that, and the result was silence, save the Carib rhythm section. I'm sure some people around the stadium were itching to cheer more, but they couldn't pull out of themselves the will to be different from everyone around them, and in that not care. That is to lead.
What I saw at that stadium was a cross section of the nation, and their actions was an indictment on us as a people- a part explanation of why we face some of the issues we do in this country. As individuals, we don't recognize worth of ourselves as a person, the worth and impact our one voice(i.e.you are important, no matter how many time people say you're too black,white,skinny,fat) can have on other people and on the world(think Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr), and the change we can make by individually leading the way, by being the change. :)
Don't think I'm excusing the management and Maturana's questionable "organisation" of the team, and the players' sometimes less than stellar performances. I'm just saying we as supporters and a people have look at the man in the mirror also.
Take care out there everyone.
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Bredder i know how yuh feeling! it's not easy being ah T&T football supporter! it's 30 yrs now i supporting and ah still want tuh support some more, despite the set backs and JW. positive
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???
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Thanks just cool(poster's name), cool to see I have some support with my views, thought first comment was going to be kind of negative. Take care brother!
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I'm with you too on this one Peter. Welcome to the forum :beermug:
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Thanks just cool(poster's name), cool to see I have some support with my views, thought first comment was going to be kind of negative. Take care brother!
I've gone to TnT matches in the States and in Trini and it is quite apparent that the supporters in foreign are far more vocal than the ones at home. Sad but true.
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Convo going on over here too...click on the link to follow.
We does never have a stadium rocking like virtually every other footballing nation. Yet man does want to talk about TnT being a footballing nation. Football not in deez people blood.
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First game you ever went to in Trinidad I take it?
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First game you ever went to in Trinidad I take it?
Cosign
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dread ah time me and meh father try to make some noise, two girl and some women look around at we as if like WTF alyuh doing cheering, as if is a big joke, stueps. it was the Bahrain game.
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First game you ever went to in Trinidad I take it?
Cosign
In build-up to our next home game the TTFF should make an advert about how to be a proper Warrior Supporter to use as part of the campaign. We don't need to go as far as to encourage our crowd to throw things on the field at opponent players like what the El Salvador supporters did to make our players uncomfortable in the 2-2 draw we suffered there.
However we definitely need to educate our supporters about their duty to cheer our players when we have the ball & to even boo the opponents players when they have the ball. This is most acceptable in a World Cup Qualification match as its literally a war and opponents should not feel at home in our house!!
If we want to show opponents our Trini hospitality then we can show them after the game once we have made them uncomfortable during the match and assured ourselves victory!!
An educational programme or TV advert is needed in the build-up to our home games. No point us having 25,000 Trinbagonians packed into our stadium behaving like they come to church and only being there like they come to watch a movie that they have no influence on!
But then again today is Shouter Baptist Day and them folks rell rell noisy to the extent that they were even banned in the past for making too much noise in their outdoor church services. So maybe we should give the Shouter Baptist and dem free or discount tickets to our T&T home games as we can guarantee they would be making loads ah noise and ringing loud bell and thing!!
In fact we can even encourage the Shouter Baptist and dem to be ringing bell and talking in tongues and thing outside our opponents hotel in the build-up to our home games! They could be dancing around a photo of our opponents team with their heads banned and candles in they hand, stamping and ketching power and talking in tongues!!
Let our opponents see that on TV before they head down to the stadium and be told our Shouter Baptist are simply saying a prayer for you to come out of that stadium ALIVE!!! ;D
Then let their worst nightmare come thu when they hear that the Shouter Baptist have a big-big section in the stadium right behind their bench where their players have to sit and it will be enough bell ringing and talking in tongues and thing to make sure their players know what happening to them and their families back home if T&T doh win this game!! :idea: :devil: :rotfl:
Wishing a Happy Shouter Baptist Day to all Spiritual Shouter Baptist on the forum!! Ring the bell for Victory!! 8)
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I eh go post verbatim what ah say in d next post b4 lefty cuss meh but really now. D lime sat was at d HCS what support u talkin bout when u spend whole day by d hairdresser fixin yuh weave. U watchin 4 d rain not what on d field.
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Thanks just cool(poster's name), cool to see I have some support with my views, thought first comment was going to be kind of negative. Take care brother!
I've gone to TnT matches in the States and in Trini and it is quite apparent that the supporters in foreign are far more vocal than the ones at home. Sad but true.
Same thing up here in Toronto. Years ago TnT played Canada in Varsity stadium. Majority of the stadium was supporting Canada, but we had a corner wit de riddim section and was behind de team all de way. TnT lost 1-0 but the support never died and every chance, every tackle, beat, shot, de boys get a hard cheer. At the end of the game, the boys gave us a salute...and the vibes was nice.
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Thanks just cool(poster's name), cool to see I have some support with my views, thought first comment was going to be kind of negative. Take care brother!
I've gone to TnT matches in the States and in Trini and it is quite apparent that the supporters in foreign are far more vocal than the ones at home. Sad but true.
Same thing up here in Toronto. Years ago TnT played Canada in Varsity stadium. Majority of the stadium was supporting Canada, but we had a corner wit de riddim section and was behind de team all de way. TnT lost 1-0 but the support never died and every chance, every tackle, beat, shot, de boys get a hard cheer. At the end of the game, the boys gave us a salute...and the vibes was nice.
Lets b honest all yuh glad 4 d lime and all yuh like all yuh football. At home d masses just glad 4 d lime.
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welcome to trinbago my friend. i was in covered stands once & a high ranking police official (out of uniform) start dipping in his waist for handcuffs because i standing and 'blocking him' when we have a free kick or corner.
fans act like they at an opera - taking in a performance - just clap when they hit a high note - and a couple oohs & aahs when the plot changes
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#1 the stadium is not a football friendly stadium. The fans are so far away they need a stadium like the Marvin Lee Stadium where you on top of the action. with a jumbotron too like what they have over the kfc and a new one on government campus . but too late you can't build that now. anyways
but this is what the TTFF can do:
lets be fair. most of the waggonist are of a class of people that just come for the lime and be in the "scene". If we want a more vocal football loving class the have to lower the tickets and the heads arent doing that. We're having the same problems here at Giants stadium football game in the there is a class of people that go their just to sit and watch the. The survey shows they are mostly older 50 years+, middle to upper class, retirees/ cooporate workers. They are very quiet and quick to tell people who stand in front of them to sit. Its all a signs of the times that as ticket prices rises mostly those types of people can buy these tickets for these types of event.
To combat this the New York Giants puts out a media campaign to boldly tell the people "get loud". Don't insult them by saying that they are quiet but Advertisement with the players and coaches urging people to get loud. Shaun Fuentes should get his camera and start it with Latapy, Yorke, Carlos, Kenwyne, Birchall, Maturana (saying it in english and spanish, and even Jack Warner himself (you know he'll be happy to be on TV), etc saying "All yuh bring ah bottle and spoon, air-horns, drums, thunder sticks, spirit, and anything. We need your support and noise". Play this commercial with the selling tickets commercial on tv, newspapers, anything.
It will work. TTFF have to be bold with the recent happenings
I dont have the video but this is a similar one but instead they were saying "Come on Giants fans. Get Loud.. We need you". You get the idea
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/hGnAnrjTPyw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGnAnrjTPyw
The DJ at the stadium plays a big part too in reving the crowd. And give out more promotional rags to wave and thunders sticks as well.
Start the campain
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good post, i hate watchin games in hasley, imho, too quiet, people might as well stay home and watch the match on tv, they may even make more noise there, the people who go the matches are not 100% supporters, they are volkswaggonists, if the game was in foreign, real noise would be making, ex pats more patriotic when supporting the team, sorry to say but its true, i remember organizing a big lime in toronto for last qualifying, riddim section come in, man and woman bawling, women wining during the match, ole talk passing, u couldnt even hear the commentary, men and women home sorf when come to supporting
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We have we own thing stop trying to follow other people.
Hush your ass and stop making noise during the game, Men pay money to watch football not hear you talk.
At the end of the day every culture is different and you have to be yourself.
If we thing is to sit down and be quiet then so be it. Doh stree yourself.
Trust me crowd support not affecting these teams on the field, They used to playing in more noise that we can ever make. It does not affect them, positive or negative
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knd2 since yuh put it so nicely i aint going to waste mi money to travel from bago to trini to watch an next game . i have seen the light.
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The waggonists are not fans, they are spectators (defined as observers of an event). True FANaticS vocally and enthusiastically support their team. If people paying money to enter a stadium to just watch their team play, they better off staying home and watching it on TV where they will get all the commentary, analysis, and replays. Better yet they could even record the game so they could WATCH it without interruption.
HCS spectators should stop wasting time, space (seats) and money in the future unless they prepared and committed to play the 12th man role. Sometimes it means that you may not see and analyze the game as carefully as you would like, but that is what videos are for. I am sure many posters here would agree that they only really "SAW" a game they attended after the fact on video. A World Cup Qualifier is an event where everyone present on the day has a role to play, and when you pay to sit in a stadium seat, your role is not to be quiet and analytical (due regard to Touches), but to make noise and bawl for your team.
To paraphrase David Rudder: "If you stand up like a Moo-Moo the opponents go jam you.
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knd2 since yuh put it so nicely i aint going to waste mi money to travel from bago to trini to watch an next game . i have seen the light.
I realize long time it have people u jus doh take on, u jus have leave it alone an' assume real man on here geh drop on dey head as babies
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The waggonists are not fans, they are spectators (defined as observers of an event). True FANaticS vocally and enthusiastically support their team. If people paying money to enter a stadium to just watch their team play, they better off staying home and watching it on TV where they will get all the commentary, analysis, and replays. Better yet they could even record the game so they could WATCH it without interruption.
HCS spectators should stop wasting time, space (seats) and money in the future unless they prepared and committed to play the 12th man role. Sometimes it means that you may not see and analyze the game as carefully as you would like, but that is what videos are for. I am sure many posters here would agree that they only really "SAW" a game they attended after the fact on video. A World Cup Qualifier is an event where everyone present on the day has a role to play, and when you pay to sit in a stadium seat, your role is not to be quiet and analytical (due regard to Touches), but to make noise and bawl for your team.
To paraphrase David Rudder: "If you stand up like a Moo-Moo the opponents go jam you.
So all yuh tellin peeps where 2 lime. Is like d peeps who does go panorama 2 lime and not listen 2 pan is dey right.
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#1 the stadium is not a football friendly stadium. The fans are so far away they need a stadium like the Marvin Lee Stadium where you on top of the action. with a jumbotron too like what they have over the kfc and a new one on government campus . but too late you can't build that now. anyways
but this is what the TTFF can do:
lets be fair. most of the waggonist are of a class of people that just come for the lime and be in the "scene". If we want a more vocal football loving class the have to lower the tickets and the heads arent doing that. We're having the same problems here at Giants stadium football game in the there is a class of people that go their just to sit and watch the. The survey shows they are mostly older 50 years+, middle to upper class, retirees/ cooporate workers. They are very quiet and quick to tell people who stand in front of them to sit. Its all a signs of the times that as ticket prices rises mostly those types of people can buy these tickets for these types of event.
To combat this the New York Giants puts out a media campaign to boldly tell the people "get loud". Don't insult them by saying that they are quiet but Advertisement with the players and coaches urging people to get loud. Shaun Fuentes should get his camera and start it with Latapy, Yorke, Carlos, Kenwyne, Birchall, Maturana (saying it in english and spanish, and even Jack Warner himself (you know he'll be happy to be on TV), etc saying "All yuh bring ah bottle and spoon, air-horns, drums, thunder sticks, spirit, and anything. We need your support and noise". Play this commercial with the selling tickets commercial on tv, newspapers, anything.
It will work. TTFF have to be bold with the recent happenings
I dont have the video but this is a similar one but instead they were saying "Come on Giants fans. Get Loud.. We need you". You get the idea
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/hGnAnrjTPyw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGnAnrjTPyw
The DJ at the stadium plays a big part too in reving the crowd. And give out more promotional rags to wave and thunders sticks as well.
Start the campain
I remember during a Uof Memphis game at the FedEx forum during time outs, the DJ?announcer would run "ads" with the players saying " Hey you, you Memphis fans, STAND UP, GET LOUD, LETS GO!!!!!" and it hypes the crowd.
Good Idea.
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Here is another 1 for the records....When I was in Germany-WC for the last game in Kaiserslautern against Paraguay....I will admit there were shouts and chants when the big names came on(Latas) also the anthem etc...but overall for a WC (we talkin bout WC here) my section was quiet....people watchin the game like dey watchin the US Open in Arthur Ash when the umpire does tell everyone hush !!
Anyways, I could not be bothered....I was bawlin my lungs out....the seat ah pay for break with all the noise and ruction I was makin....the german security guard come and stand up next to meh an watchin meh cross eye...then he take away meh fog horn....
Now and not sayin everyone must get on so....but I jus think we as Trinis should try to be more outwardly passionate when supporting our team...yuh know..like when yuh in ah Chutney fete and nobody could hold yuh back or like how yuh does get on Jouvert mornin..........
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Here is another 1 for the records....When I was in Germany-WC for the last game in Kaiserslautern against Paraguay....I will admit there were shouts and chants when the big names came on(Latas) also the anthem etc...but overall for a WC (we talkin bout WC here) my section was quiet....people watchin the game like dey watchin the US Open in Arthur Ash when the umpire does tell everyone hush !!
Anyways, I could not be bothered....I was bawlin my lungs out....the seat ah pay for break with all the noise and ruction I was makin....the german security guard come and stand up next to meh an watchin meh cross eye...then he take away meh fog horn....
Now and not sayin everyone must get on so....but I jus think we as Trinis should try to be more outwardly passionate when supporting our team...yuh know..like when yuh in ah Chutney fete and nobody could hold yuh back or like how yuh does get on Jouvert mornin..........
Chutney fete and jouvert mornin dem is oui passion.
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Here is another 1 for the records....When I was in Germany-WC for the last game in Kaiserslautern against Paraguay....I will admit there were shouts and chants when the big names came on(Latas) also the anthem etc...but overall for a WC (we talkin bout WC here) my section was quiet....people watchin the game like dey watchin the US Open in Arthur Ash when the umpire does tell everyone hush !!
Anyways, I could not be bothered....I was bawlin my lungs out....the seat ah pay for break with all the noise and ruction I was makin....the german security guard come and stand up next to meh an watchin meh cross eye...then he take away meh fog horn....
Now and not sayin everyone must get on so....but I jus think we as Trinis should try to be more outwardly passionate when supporting our team...yuh know..like when yuh in ah Chutney fete and nobody could hold yuh back or like how yuh does get on Jouvert mornin..........
the problem was, all the trini supporters were to spread out in kaiserslaturn but i still make noise, ttcom and dem fellahs was liming with me, we was loud, but say wha, back home too sorf
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Weary, that is exactly what I saying. Panorama is more a lime than listening to pan anyway. If yuh really want to listen to pan you will hear it better on the television. If yuh want to support yuh panside and "influence" the judges yuh go Panorama with your posse. If Panorama was about listening to pan Fonclaire woulda beat Renegades with Pan by Storm back in 1990.
Look at trouble I start now. ;D ;D ;)
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Ah listen to alot ah lot of suggestions made by posters that are well intended. I have a suggestion also. Can someone also explain to players that they also need to interact with supporters.
I remember when Jabloteh was playing Fire in Chicago at Soldiers field. Man giving we fellahs a big bligh....We players looking at we like dey doh know we. Deh doh have to know we personally....but oh god man....ge we ah hail to nah!
But den again....them fellahs probably could not raise deh hand. It probably was too cold. They did wear gloves that day.
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We have we own thing stop trying to follow other people.
Hush your ass and stop making noise during the game, Men pay money to watch football not hear you talk.
At the end of the day every culture is different and you have to be yourself.
If we thing is to sit down and be quiet then so be it. Doh stree yourself.
Trust me crowd support not affecting these teams on the field, They used to playing in more noise that we can ever make. It does not affect them, positive or negative
Come on man. Every athlete will tell you that they are inspired by vociferous crowd support. Maybe professional opponents are less likely to be intimidated when in enemy territory, but I really believe strong support can only help our cause
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If the some of the fans used to support teams in the local PFL, the vocal support would be natural. Most of them only their for the occasion. After that, they could care less about Mau-pau etc. Fan support is cultural. Culture start from the roots. The roots of football starts with club and school football. Revive those two aspect and we will see more vocal support.
But I am lambasting our fans. At least 20,000 showed up. Lets be thankful. Another thing also, the guys on the field are not inspiartional. Only when Latas came on we heard the roar of the crowd. TTFF has to put out a better product for the crowd to cheer.
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:devil: :devil: Hehehe
But ent we play shit saturday?
How yuh expect the fans to cheer on dat?
Dais why they remain quiet.
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:devil: :devil: Hehehe
But ent we play shit saturday?
How yuh expect the fans to cheer on dat?
Dais why they remain quiet.
nice excuse breds :D allyuh quiet regardless the match situation, well your allowed to be bc you writing but how many supporters trying to play articulate like u ;D
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#1 the stadium is not a football friendly stadium. The fans are so far away they need a stadium like the Marvin Lee Stadium where you on top of the action. with a jumbotron too like what they have over the kfc and a new one on government campus . but too late you can't build that now. anyways
but this is what the TTFF can do:
lets be fair. most of the waggonist are of a class of people that just come for the lime and be in the "scene". If we want a more vocal football loving class the have to lower the tickets and the heads arent doing that. We're having the same problems here at Giants stadium football game in the there is a class of people that go their just to sit and watch the. The survey shows they are mostly older 50 years+, middle to upper class, retirees/ cooporate workers. They are very quiet and quick to tell people who stand in front of them to sit. Its all a signs of the times that as ticket prices rises mostly those types of people can buy these tickets for these types of event.
To combat this the New York Giants puts out a media campaign to boldly tell the people "get loud". Don't insult them by saying that they are quiet but Advertisement with the players and coaches urging people to get loud. Shaun Fuentes should get his camera and start it with Latapy, Yorke, Carlos, Kenwyne, Birchall, Maturana (saying it in english and spanish, and even Jack Warner himself (you know he'll be happy to be on TV), etc saying "All yuh bring ah bottle and spoon, air-horns, drums, thunder sticks, spirit, and anything. We need your support and noise". Play this commercial with the selling tickets commercial on tv, newspapers, anything.
It will work. TTFF have to be bold with the recent happenings
I dont have the video but this is a similar one but instead they were saying "Come on Giants fans. Get Loud.. We need you". You get the idea
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/hGnAnrjTPyw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGnAnrjTPyw
The DJ at the stadium plays a big part too in reving the crowd. And give out more promotional rags to wave and thunders sticks as well.
Start the campain
the problem with that is fifa say no music or crowd chanting from mic when the Bahrain game was taking place
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what needs to happen is the die hard fans/ supporter clubs like this one claim a certain section of the stadium for themselves in the games and set the trend. just like boca jrs has LA 12 aka the 12th ie the 12th man and although the majority of the bombanera(boca stadium) is normally loud most of the vibes starts from that section behind the goal. So eventually we grow from where we are to something like this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzZgHlkAoBE&feature=related
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it is the mission of every visiting team to take the home crowd out of the game. We make it too easy.
Get off your blinders and look at the Brazilians.
It works!
Besides you have a better time with a lil buzz and making plenty noise
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A true footballer will be the only one that understands what a loud cheering crowd does to your confidence....some of dem just come to lime and drink...I agree with you Peter.....MAKE SOME NOISE!!!!!!!!!
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it is the mission of every visiting team to take the home crowd out of the game. We make it too easy.
Get off your blinders and look at the Brazilians.
It works!
Besides you have a better time with a lil buzz and making plenty noise
D buzz is d jump up later.
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Slight change of pace before sign off--=-
My two bits to the team---
1)Control the nerves in the opening minutes. Style of play is too stiff, too herky jerky at opening of both halves..
Are you afraid of the local press? the mamaguy? the Fatigue? The fear of making errors?
2) Again nerves=-- when clearing from the back clear to a teammate, this must be an intelligent choice/decision. Random clearing will usually find an opponent. Teammates must make themselves available/ recognizable for clearing from the defenders. Find a passing lane for your defenders.
Really an easy game , a beautiful game if these fundamentals are in place. The midfield will get the outlet passes and so forth and so on.
Make us proud.
and still.....
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A true footballer will be the only one that understands what a loud cheering crowd does to your confidence....some of dem just come to lime and drink...I agree with you Peter.....MAKE SOME NOISE!!!!!!!!!
best girls in the stadium does real lift my confidence :D
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what needs to happen is the die hard fans/ supporter clubs like this one claim a certain section of the stadium for themselves in the games and set the trend. just like boca jrs has LA 12 aka the 12th ie the 12th man and although the majority of the bombanera(boca stadium) is normally loud most of the vibes starts from that section behind the goal. So eventually we grow from where we are to something like this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzZgHlkAoBE&feature=related
That is exactly how I see it. Warrior Nation need to claim their section in HSC and lead from infront! For example you can't find that many passionate supports of the US national team but Sam's Army makes a hell of a lot of noise!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL6ITnzZqiA
sorry for the USA reference before the big game
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A true footballer will be the only one that understands what a loud cheering crowd does to your confidence....some of dem just come to lime and drink...I agree with you Peter.....MAKE SOME NOISE!!!!!!!!!
best girls in the stadium does real lift my confidence :D
lol.. I can understand. But then do you cheer for the team or fuh dem?
I guess in the end, its just noise that the supporters should be making.
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That is exactly how I see it. Warrior Nation need to claim their section in HSC and lead from infront! For example you can't find that many passionate supports of the US national team but Sam's Army makes a hell of a lot of noise!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL6ITnzZqiA
sorry for the USA reference before the big game
Augi... unlike the esteemed cacaholes running the TTFF, the USSF understands the importance of partnering with Sam's Army, giving them their own sections at games, discounted tickets etc. Jack would much rather view the Warrior Nation as an adversary, the the thought of discounted tickets makes his pockets grumble.
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what needs to happen is the die hard fans/ supporter clubs like this one claim a certain section of the stadium for themselves in the games and set the trend. just like boca jrs has LA 12 aka the 12th ie the 12th man and although the majority of the bombanera(boca stadium) is normally loud most of the vibes starts from that section behind the goal. So eventually we grow from where we are to something like this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzZgHlkAoBE&feature=related
Hey everyone, thanks for being so gracious and welcoming and thanks for all the positive replies. You guys on here are rel cool. Yep Spideybuff, this was my first national team game I got to go to.(after going this one, I've recognised how much I was missed, lol) Good thing I never went when I was really small or else I would have caught the church mouse syndrome.
Hey Teflon Don, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOUR COMMENT. I was thinking the same thing man. We on this forum(real diehard football fans) need to organise and meet up for our home games and gather in one section of the stadium, and single handedly turn Hasely Crawford Stadium into Anfield on a European night! We could get some horn and even a damn megaphone(!) if possible, start mexican waves, cheer and sing when our players have the ball, and boo every touch of opposing team(I don't know if we should do this last one, or if we should just cheer our team to get the ball,I'm leaning on booing now,lol)
I'm with you too on this one Peter. Welcome to the forum Beer Mug
Thanks for the welcome Consultant, take care.
Hey, Socapro, I totally agree with your suggestion for the TTFF to make ads instructing people in stadium how you really support and spur on the team. I was thinking about that also. Also, this is far off, but even if on the stadium screen they stream like prompts to sing(eg Soca Warrior song), sway, shout, and clap in unison for team. 20000 people doing that will intimidate the hell out of any opponent.(well most at least)
Guys we have to realize, as extraordinary as it may sound, WE SUPPORTERS CAN BE A BIG FACTOR IN THE SUCCESS OF OUR TEAM. (I know some of you were supporting football before I was born, so I don't mean to sound preachy, but we have to make a decisive stand)
As I said before, lets arrange some way that all the true football fans and Vocal Trinidad Supporters can meet up before the game and fill out one section of the stadium, plan out how we going to support and spur on our team, and intimidate opponents(eg. booing every touch-for them to play as nervous as possible. Of course no bottle throwing bullerman behaviour like them El Salvadoreans) ,and turn there into the friggin Azadi stadium in Iran. Our team, the media, and opposing teams would want to know what the hell is going on when they step out vocal support few times before seen in Trinidad.( & upkeep support for WHOLE DAMN GAME, EVERY MINUTE OF IT, regardless of how if we're losing, we'll spur on the team to the last)
When the players know the fans are singing there lungs out, they'll feel even more of an obligation to perform their hardest and best, and in that we will help get the best and most determined performance out of our players, regardless of if they have to play under questionable or occasionally downright wrong tactics.
dread ah time me and meh father try to make some noise, two girl and some women look around at we as if like WTF alyuh doing cheering, as if is a big joke, stueps. it was the Bahrain game.
LOL Die.Hard.Warrior. Damn hilarious many of our fellow Trinidadians eh? People over here are too insecure, have too much false pride, and afraid to speak up. If cut-eye could have killed, I would have given up the ghost in that Honduras game. LOL- like if I could care less about what they think about me.(which is something I had to work on as a person, but I'm very good at it no,lol) *steups*
welcome to trinbago my friend. i was in covered stands once & a high ranking police official (out of uniform) start dipping in his waist for handcuffs because i standing and 'blocking him' when we have a free kick or corner.
fans act like they at an opera - taking in a performance - just clap when they hit a high note - and a couple oohs & aahs when the plot changes
Very well put my friend. LOL, police office part was hilarious, too many of our officers act just downright IGNORANT! Totally agree with fan being in opera comment, thats a precise description of how they act there man.
fans act like they at an opera - taking in a performance - just clap when they hit a high note - and a couple oohs & aahs when the plot changes
Babalawo I totally agree with the idea to show commercials with players telling fans to be loud.
We have we own thing stop trying to follow other people.
Hush your ass and stop making noise during the game, Men pay money to watch football not hear you talk.
At the end of the day every culture is different and you have to be yourself.
If we thing is to sit down and be quiet then so be it. Doh stree yourself.
Trust me crowd support not affecting these teams on the field, They used to playing in more noise that we can ever make. It does not affect them, positive or negative
LOL KND2, I have to respectfully disagree with your comment. If you think the noise and support of fans in the stadium doesn't affect teams' performance, that says you don't know much about football.(you probably do, but your comment doesn't show it)
Freakazoid, you are right KND2 has showed us all the light, stay in Tobago, our team needs no support as they will play the same regardless, l declare to let them play every home game in an empty HCS stadium. That is the road to South Africa.
Well put Oz, I totally agree, the whole blasted stadium was filled with waggonist mouse spectators, not at all fans(FANATICS).
Here is another 1 for the records....When I was in Germany-WC for the last game in Kaiserslautern against Paraguay....I will admit there were shouts and chants when the big names came on(Latas) also the anthem etc...but overall for a WC (we talkin bout WC here) my section was quiet....people watchin the game like dey watchin the US Open in Arthur Ash when the umpire does tell everyone hush !!
Anyways, I could not be bothered....I was bawlin my lungs out....the seat ah pay for break with all the noise and ruction I was makin....the german security guard come and stand up next to meh an watchin meh cross eye...then he take away meh fog horn....
Now and not sayin everyone must get on so....but I jus think we as Trinis should try to be more outwardly passionate when supporting our team...yuh know..like when yuh in ah Chutney fete and nobody could hold yuh back or like how yuh does get on Jouvert mornin..........
Exactly man, LOL at the chair breaking with noise. We can make noise for trivial useless things, but when it comes to speaking up to make a difference we silent. Kudos to you for being a real fan and a true Trini patriot. Put all of them to shame!
Deeks, I agree with you on the fact that we need to revive school and club(have to have once been alive to be revived) football to really maximize football in this country.
Very very true, vze2rhrg, it really is the visiting team's job to take the crowd out of the game, thats why they try to score first, to stop the drive the crowd creates in team. Good thing for them though is that our crowd takes themselves out of the game from the starting whistle.
Thanks Trini/Aussie, we really have to MAKE NOISE! Each individual.
Slight change of pace before sign off--=-
My two bits to the team---
1)Control the nerves in the opening minutes. Style of play is too stiff, too herky jerky at opening of both halves..
Are you afraid of the local press? the mamaguy? the Fatigue? The fear of making errors?
2) Again nerves=-- when clearing from the back clear to a teammate, this must be an intelligent choice/decision. Random clearing will usually find an opponent. Teammates must make themselves available/ recognizable for clearing from the defenders. Find a passing lane for your defenders.
Really an easy game , a beautiful game if these fundamentals are in place. The midfield will get the outlet passes and so forth and so on.
Make us proud.
and still.....
Very true, Coaches need to drill players in support play, when someone has the ball, he should have no shortage of options around him to pass to. Players have to run forward quickly to support.
That is exactly how I see it. Warrior Nation need to claim their section in HSC and lead from infront! For example you can't find that many passionate supports of the US national team but Sam's Army makes a hell of a lot of noise!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL6ITnzZqiA
sorry for the USA reference before the big game
Yeah, we really have to organize ourselves in one section to make the stadium shake with noise!
Anyone agree with me? Lets try to organise something on this forum, this support posse could become an ongoing and known thing for each game, wherein also everyone attending the game who thinks their fed up with going along with unpatriotic stifled-voice norms can take up a place in diehard fan section and add to support. What do you guys think?
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Peter doh be fooled by the wolf in sheep's clothing
ask Just Cool ;)
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We have organised something like that through this fan forum. It's called the Warrior Nation. We do have a section of the stadium where the warrior nation usually sits. It's where you see the big flag.
I would be delighted if you are able to get the members on here mobilised to make noise as it is a wonderful idea. It is somethign that has been tried before though and is usually met with lots of support on the board and little action in person but I for one will always support anyone who is willing to make the effort.
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you guys watch the elsalvador vs USA game? dat is what you called supporters. Trinis home do not support football dey support bakkanal. dais all dey support. It mad mi I went to a big fooking dance on saturday here in Chicago and none of dem so call warriors supporters know we played. I even hail a partner wearing a warriors shirt and he still did not even know we had a game. The flicking DJ who running di soca did not know we played . Bunch a freeking shithounds.. I love Football to the fullest . I watch all the games and then went to party and if TNT had lost I will a stay mi flicking ass home... bring di flicking game foreign I gurantee we guh have more supporters than dem shithound waggonist In Trinidad
war
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We have organised something like that through this fan forum. It's called the Warrior Nation. We do have a section of the stadium where the warrior nation usually sits. It's where you see the big flag.
I would be delighted if you are able to get the members on here mobilised to make noise as it is a wonderful idea. It is somethign that has been tried before though and is usually met with lots of support on the board and little action in person but I for one will always support anyone who is willing to make the effort.
Thanks spideybuff, I'm new here so I didn't know about that, cool man thanks. Warrior Nation! That sounds great. I think I remember seeing a big flag somewhere. What we just have to do now is to get it to work on a larger scale/get more people to turn out. We have to explain to everyone on the forum understand how crucial this is, get them fired up, prob make a video and push it, generally start let people know about it and convince them to get out of their crappy small-minded comfort zone and support.
Even if we don't influence that many of the non-supporters(vast majority), at least we could rally together all the diehards, some of whom probably got demotivated and sank into typical quiet mode, bring back out the fire in them. Lets try to push this Warrior Nation true fans(not unpatriotic false-pride consumed spectators) support group even harder. We can make this work fellas. Have hope.(If a black man can become president of America, what is it for us to make this true-support group work and have it keep growing? )
For this and future World Cup Qualification-for the spurring forward of our football- for the greatly positive and unifying impact the success of our National football team has on this country and the citizens' minds at large- and for showing Trinbagonians what a bit of what real patriotism is about, we must make it work. Have hope!
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it is the mission of every visiting team to take the home crowd out of the game. We make it too easy.
Get off your blinders and look at the Brazilians.
It works!
Besides you have a better time with a lil buzz and making plenty noise
Yes, we do. Part of the reason for the bachannal is to intimidate the visiting team. Trinis at home doh seem to get that. Others countries do.
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what needs to happen is the die hard fans/ supporter clubs like this one claim a certain section of the stadium for themselves in the games and set the trend. just like boca jrs has LA 12 aka the 12th ie the 12th man and although the majority of the bombanera(boca stadium) is normally loud most of the vibes starts from that section behind the goal. So eventually we grow from where we are to something like this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzZgHlkAoBE&feature=related
That is exactly how I see it. Warrior Nation need to claim their section in HSC and lead from infront! For example you can't find that many passionate supports of the US national team but Sam's Army makes a hell of a lot of noise!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL6ITnzZqiA
sorry for the USA reference before the big game
Indeed.
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We need to win our home games, I don't know how we can do that with the support(never mind our woeful team organisation) we have. I wasn't surprised(but saddened) when I heard Stern John say that the team plays better and prefers to play away from home! What an indictment on our "supporters"! Its so bad that a player admits something like that freely and openly like its a given and understood.
The reason he gave was that theres more pressure at home, but ask yourself, why do all top european teams(and practically all teams in general) for example play better and win more games at home and obviously depend on home games for success? Thats because of the supporters backing and their love, they feed off of that, what our players get to feed off of is poison, unfriendly and derisory supporters who stay there quiet and watch, generating an atmosphere of tension rather than support.
The unpatriotic quietness of our supporters create so much unpleasant tension(euphemistically called "expectation" by Stern John), that our team actually prefers to play in a hostile environment like USA than at our own Haseley Crawford Stadium. Yet another sad blemish and terrible indictment on this nation!!
Die-hard Supporters, we can't sit by while this goes on, this is despicable! We must make a fiercer stand!
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Well dey eh play betta yday
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Well dey eh play betta yday
True, but with real home support we could be a totally different team home, regardless of if the team disorganized(coaches fault, training ground stuff), they'll all fight harder at home with proper home support. You see it all the time in the top league, some teams are overall not very good and play rubbish away, but at home they're unbeatable, e.g Fulham this season in the EPL.
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I am just disgusted with our so-called football "supporters".
I attended our recent World Cup 2010 Qualifying match vs Honduras. Before the match started I seeing alot of people wining and jumping up to the music, so told myself the team's going to get good vocal support, but to my amazement, as soon as it started, and the time to make noise arrived, everyone was as quiet as a damned church mouse.
Throughout the match I was most likely one of if not the Loudest person in that whole stadium(and I'm not a very loud person) I was singing at the top of my lungs in between cheering every touch our players made and booing every touch of the Honduran players(was booing now and then though,many times I just cheered our players to defend hard and get back the ball, jury's out on which is better though, I think the latter.). I was trying to make up for the 15000 church mice that packed out the Hasely Crawford stadium. To top it all off people had the nerve to watch me with the, "Wha wrong with he, why he making so much noise and being different " look. What in the world is wrong with us as Trinidadians!!?
People seem think attending your team's World Cup qualifying football match is like going to the movies,newsflash-it isn't! We are supposed to be the 12th man. Our presence alone barely does anything, because if there was a twelfth player on our team who just stood there still on the field, and didn't participate in the game, he'd be almost useless. Likewise if everyone just sits there quietly, their impact is very small. The visiting team soon forgets they are surrounded by more than 20000 foreigners, who would like nothing less than for them to utterly fail, and they then get comfortable and play their usual game. The visiting team is not supposed to be unaffected and able to play at their usual pace! The mere fact that Fifa has as a punishment that the offending team must play a match at an empty stadium acknowledges the tremendous impact supporters can have on their team.
The reason teams fear going to Anfield and face Liverpool in the Champions League, is because of the atmosphere the crowd generates, thats likened onto a "Cauldron", this driving on from their supporters, and intimidation of the visiting teams(which assists in them making more mistakes and generally not flowing as they normally would), makes Liverpool consistently punch above their weight in the champions league at Anfield particularly. With the lack of vocal support our team gets most of the time in Trinidad, its almost as if every game they play is an away game. Besides the issues with management etc, I think thats a contributing factor to why we've only qualified for one world cup, even though we've had so many talented players through the years. If every game throughout for some EPL team was an away game, that team would win nothing and probably likely get relegated come the end of the season. That statement isn't a stretch, thats about how important the home advantage is.
In matches people only cheer when the team comes close to scoring, when if they cheer them on throughout the match, with the heightened confidence and drive that generates in the players(and intimidation and nervousness in opponents), they most likely would drive forward with more intensity and create more chances, thereby scoring more goals, winning more games, and getting more points- hence achieving more in general. This even helps "crappy" players and teams perform better, much more for our players, a number of which are exceptionally talented. It will also help our *ahem* slightly lacking players to perform better and with more drive and determination at our home games. Why do you think club teams generally play better at home? Its not some magical thing, its the supporters' backing- knowing that tens of thousands of people are cheering for *you* is bound to have an impact on any human being. We must not forget that half(!) of our qualifying games are at home, so if we can consistently perform at a different level at home(thus picking up more points), coupled with picking up some points away, we'll be a very productive and feared team.
The recent qualifying match between USA and El Salvador(EL Salvador completely dominated USA and scored 2 in the first half, only to let it slip to a 2-2 draw) was a good example of how much an impact the crowd can have on the game. Goal.com even ran a story attesting to the impact the crowd had on the match and the performance of their team(and lack thereof on USA's part). Another example of the crowd's impact on the games result is Iran and their home games in the Azadi stadium. Teams FEAR going to play Iran there, and watching Iran's record at that stadium, you would swear they were Brazil in disguise. Search Azadi Stadium on Youtube.
Trinidadians, we must be a nation of leaders and not followers. We can talk when its about trivial things, but when times come around that our voice can have an impact and make a difference, said voice vanishes. Why when I'm cheering at the top of my lungs for OUR team, I get people watching me like," Why he doesn't stay quiet like everyone else around him?" and others looking at each other as if to say,"You start cheering first,"and,"I'm only one person, what difference can my one voice make?" So what naturally followed was that everyone in the stadium said that, and the result was silence, save the Carib rhythm section. I'm sure some people around the stadium were itching to cheer more, but they couldn't pull out of themselves the will to be different from everyone around them, and in that not care. That is to lead.
What I saw at that stadium was a cross section of the nation, and their actions was an indictment on us as a people- a part explanation of why we face some of the issues we do in this country. As individuals, we don't recognize worth of ourselves as a person, the worth and impact our one voice(i.e.you are important, no matter how many time people say you're too black,white,skinny,fat) can have on other people and on the world(think Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr), and the change we can make by individually leading the way, by being the change. :)
Don't think I'm excusing the management and Maturana's questionable "organisation" of the team, and the players' sometimes less than stellar performances. I'm just saying we as supporters and a people have look at the man in the mirror also.
Take care out there everyone.
Peter did you take ah trip to go see that game? Yuh sounding like me. ???
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Peter,
Right now, no amount of home support can help them. Them fellas have to step up a big notch for people to cheer. These are professionals, not inter-col ball players. When they go back to England, they need to put some extra effort in their development in order to help the RWB progress. They are not doing TT any favors. Right now they just wasting we time.
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Yeah Weh-it-is, I went to see it.
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Peter,
Right now, no amount of home support can help them. Them fellas have to step up a big notch for people to cheer. These are professionals, not inter-col ball players. When they go back to England, they need to put some extra effort in their development in order to help the RWB progress. They are not doing TT any favors. Right now they just wasting we time.
Deeks, that is no excuse man. It doesn't matter what situation they are in, Trinbagonians are unaffected and simply will not cheer them on the entire match. Look at how the El Salvadoreans cheer on their team the entire match and made it hell for the USA, even though they allowed a disorganised outfit like TandT go 2 goals up on the at home in the previous match. The situation doesn't matter, the lack of support for our team is caused by deep rooted issues within the people of the country.
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Yeah Weh-it-is, I went to see it.
Oh ok thanks. I guess people who live outside learn to become more appreciative.
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Yeah Weh-it-is, I went to see it.
Oh ok thanks. I guess people who live outside learn to become more appreciative.
Nah man Weh-it-is, I'm talking about local Honduras game, not USA, lol, I wish I had finances now to travel and support the team(hopefully I will in the near future), but on that topic I'll probably be moving to US next year, so I can make noise in for future games. I learn to be appreciative here in Trinidad (against all the odds), prob because my mother grew up in England and got accustomed to how things done there, and she instilled that in me(?? just speculation, lol)
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This post is a direct contrast between home and away! There is the way we watch football at home and the way when we're away. When in Europe, North America and recently Asia; we sing songs & chant. Africa I believe is a little closer to the South American influence with the percussion instruments, -some bought, some made- and a more intense and "flowing riddum" which allows for more singing on a particular riddum...
As in T & T -- we want a Goal. on top of percussion. With the many influences (ethnic) existing in TnT we have kinda cultivated our very own way of watching football. We now let de riddum sections carry de riddum for us, inclusive of a tattered trumpet to blow de TnT we want a goal part and that leaves us free time to cheer, cuss and throw beer up in the sky every time something good happens which mean somebody just get breed or drag. This style of support is unique to TnT along with the many side shows ranging from de nutsman (who will fack yuh up) to de fine specimens( female ones) that walk by. This is TnT.
On another note...village football is a different thing as this entails cheering and jeering, a lot more cussing, loud direct instructions from everyone on de sidelines since they themselves officially or unofficially is a coach too and a lot more focus is placed on technique like more drags and who get breed.
This is how we watch football in TnT... TnT like doin thing dey own way.
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This post is a direct contrast between home and away! There is the way we watch football at home and the way when we're away. When in Europe, North America and recently Asia; we sing songs & chant. Africa I believe is a little closer to the South American influence with the percussion instruments, -some bought, some made- and a more intense and "flowing riddum" which allows for more singing on a particular riddum...
As in T & T -- we want a Goal. on top of percussion. With the many influences (ethnic) existing in TnT we have kinda cultivated our very own way of watching football. We now let de riddum sections carry de riddum for us, inclusive of a tattered trumpet to blow de TnT we want a goal part and that leaves us free time to cheer, cuss and throw beer up in the sky every time something good happens which mean somebody just get breed or drag. This style of support is unique to TnT along with the many side shows ranging from de nutsman (who will fack yuh up) to de fine specimens( female ones) that walk by. This is TnT.
On another note...village football is a different thing as this entails cheering and jeering, a lot more cussing, loud direct instructions from everyone on de sidelines since they themselves officially or unofficially is a coach too and a lot more focus is placed on technique like more drags and who get breed.
This is how we watch football in TnT... TnT like doin thing dey own way.
You have a point there, but not every trait that a nation has developed is beneficial to its progress and success. Our lack of speaking up vocally when your voice can make a difference is one of them. Also, if you want to go into the history of why this type of "support" has developed, it might be the stifling of voice and expression of colonial times, and being made to feel inferior, and when someone tries to lead the way and make a change, they're frowned upon and chastised just like the slaves did those leader who tried to rebel. We grip onto our false-pride and won't let go, thinking that being silent and "composed" says that you're demure and high-class. Its foolish and idiotic, but no one will question it and make a stand for the things that will produce real progress, instead of holding on to flawed traditions, traditions that have grown out of poisonous soil, thereby though still green and providing oxygen like all green plants, are poisonous themselves. Thats one the difference between a developed nation and an underdeveloped one.(e.g. Nations in Africa that hold onto rituals that hold their people back) You could write a thesis on this subject. Everything I've said above I've not thought out sufficiently for it to be a given, but I hope you see my point a little.
Also, I liked your comment, because you injected some deeper thought into the issues and provided some good contrasts, though ultimately I have to disagree with the conclusion that because its the traditional way we go about "supporting," that excuses the absolutely ineffective and unmoving nature of said support, because as said above, some traditions are poisonous.
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This post is a direct contrast between home and away! There is the way we watch football at home and the way when we're away. When in Europe, North America and recently Asia; we sing songs & chant. Africa I believe is a little closer to the South American influence with the percussion instruments, -some bought, some made- and a more intense and "flowing riddum" which allows for more singing on a particular riddum...
As in T & T -- we want a Goal. on top of percussion. With the many influences (ethnic) existing in TnT we have kinda cultivated our very own way of watching football. We now let de riddum sections carry de riddum for us, inclusive of a tattered trumpet to blow de TnT we want a goal part and that leaves us free time to cheer, cuss and throw beer up in the sky every time something good happens which mean somebody just get breed or drag. This style of support is unique to TnT along with the many side shows ranging from de nutsman (who will fack yuh up) to de fine specimens( female ones) that walk by. This is TnT.
On another note...village football is a different thing as this entails cheering and jeering, a lot more cussing, loud direct instructions from everyone on de sidelines since they themselves officially or unofficially is a coach too and a lot more focus is placed on technique like more drags and who get breed.
This is how we watch football in TnT... TnT like doin thing dey own way.
You have a point there, but not every trait that a nation has developed is beneficial to its progress and success. Our lack of speaking up vocally when your voice can make a difference is one of them. Also, if you want to go into the history of why this type of "support" has developed, it might be the stifling of voice and expression of colonial times, and being made to feel inferior, and when someone tries to lead the way and make a change, they're frowned upon and chastised just like the slaves did those leader who tried to rebel. We grip onto our false-pride and won't let go, thinking that being silent and "composed" says that you're demure and high-class. Its foolish and idiotic, but no one will question it and make a stand for the things that will produce real progress, instead of holding on to flawed traditions, traditions that have grown out of poisonous soil, thereby though still green and providing oxygen like all green plants, are poisonous themselves. Thats one the difference between a developed nation and an underdeveloped one.(e.g. Nations in Africa that hold onto rituals that hold their people back) You could write a thesis on this subject. Everything I've said above I've not thought out sufficiently for it to be a given, but I hope you see my point a little.
Also, I liked your comment, because you injected some deeper thought into the issues and provided some good contrasts, though ultimately I have to disagree with the conclusion that because its the traditional way we go about "supporting," that excuses the absolutely ineffective and unmoving nature of said support, because as said above, some traditions are poisonous.
Bravo. A very Up-full read. Time will tell if TnT is willing to trade in our demure and air of aristocracy for your aforementioned functionality and pragmatism. Hey at least we started doing the "Wave" right?
cheers.