Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: D.H.W on April 30, 2009, 07:48:02 AM
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Ferguson fires warning to Arsenal
Semi-final will go to the wire - Ferguson
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/8026068.stm <--------Video Link
Sir Alex Ferguson has warned Arsenal they will struggle to stop Manchester United scoring in the second leg of the Champions League semi-final on Tuesday.
Boss Ferguson saw United win their home leg 1-0 but they squandered chances to make the scoreline more convincing.
"We played at a good high tempo and maybe we should have scored four goals but before the game I wanted to win without losing a goal," said Ferguson.
"We know we can go there and score and that is the big problem Arsenal have."
United dominated the game but only had John O'Shea's 18th-minute goal to show for their efforts.
Cristiano Ronaldo had a header saved and hit the bar with a second-half screamer, while Carlos Tevez saw a close-range effort brilliantly stopped by Gunners keeper Manuel Almunia.
"The bigger problem is if you don't make the chances. I believe they can make the chances again. We know we have goal threats," insisted Ferguson.
Arsenal manager Arsene Wenger believes his players are capable of a much better performance at the Emirates Stadium and was relieved to emerge from the first leg with only a one-goal deficit to make up.
"I believe that we have a good chance to reverse the result," he said.
"I am convinced you will see a different Arsenal team at the Emirates.
"United can have regrets because they didn't score a second goal. It's down to us to make sure they regret they didn't score a second goal."
Wenger reserved special praise for Spanish keeper Almunia.
"He had a big game in a big game," he added.
"His saves were excellent, top class in every sense. His reading of the game, his decision-making, quality, sharpness. He was really top class."
Ferguson, meanwhile, chose to single out goalscorer O'Shea, whose only other goal this season was in the Carling Cup semi-final against Derby.
"He is a great professional. The boy never complains. He is happy to play anywhere," said the United manager.
"He has not always been a number one choice but he produces 30 performances a season and it is a contribution we are grateful for.
"At the present moment in time, he would be in the team if we got to the final."
However, Ferguson remains concerned that United's fixture list could hamper their bid to win four trophies this season.
He claimed that while Arsenal can afford to rest players in their Premier League game against Portsmouth on Saturday, he must pick a strong side for the early kick-off against Middlesbrough as United look to maintain their lead in the title race.
"Arsenal's big advantage is that they can play Pat Rice at right-back and Arsene himself at centre-forward on Saturday," quipped Ferguson.
"We have to play a team to win the game. We have a lunchtime kick-off at Middlesbrough and I do not think it is right."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/8020038.stm
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have to dig back up this thread again :devil:
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let's go united.
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Sir Alex Ferguson has confirmed that defenders Rio Ferdinand and Patrice Evra will start against Arsenal at Emirates Stadium on Tuesday.
Ferdinand missed the Middlesbrough win at the weekend after scans revealed he had bruised a lung in the UEFA Champions League semi-final first-leg against the Gunners at Old Trafford last week.
The England international trained at Carrington on Monday with the rest of the Manchester United squad and came through unscathed.
Meanwhile Patrice Evra is also expected to start despite sitting out training.
The Frenchman was on the end of a number of robust challenges at the Riverside on Saturday and was withdrawn as a precaution 12 minutes from time.
Wes Brown was also absent from Monday's session but he too is in contention for a place on the bench.
Concern
"My only concern last Wednesday was when he (Ferdinand) came off and when they spit blood you worry about that," Ferguson said.
"But fortunately it wasn't serious enough so that he won't miss any more games than he did so I am pleased with that.
"We are pleased they have all come through. When you are going into a game as important as tomorrow then you want everyone fit and we have got that."
United take a 1-0 lead to the Emirates with a John O'Shea goal the only thing separating the two teams in the tie.
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11945_5279380,00.html
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Sir Alex Ferguson has no concerns over Wayne Rooney's discipline ahead of Manchester United's crunch clash with Arsenal.
A booking for Rooney in the semi-final, second leg at Emirates Stadium on Tuesday night would rule the striker out of the UEFA Champions League final should United complete the job.
Patrice Evra and Carlos Tevez are also a yellow card away from being forced to sit out the Rome showpiece on 27th May.
Rooney has had issues with his temperament in the past, but Ferguson has no plans to discuss the matter ahead of the tie, which United lead 1-0 from the first leg.
Mature
"I don't need to address it with Wayne," said Ferguson. "He knows the circumstances. I don't need to spell it out to him.
"He is a mature young man. He understands it perfectly well.
"He needs to be disciplined, but most of the time he is that way."
Indeed, Ferguson believes Italian referee Roberto Rosetti will handle the contest sympathetically, knowing one waft of his yellow card could condemn someone to suffer the kind of misery experienced by Roy Keane and Paul Scholes in 1999, when both were forced to watch from the stands as United overcame Bayern Munich in dramatic fashion.
"I have noticed a trend of the referees being very professional and tolerant in situations like this," said Ferguson.
"They know the seriousness of a player getting three bookings in the whole tournament and missing the final because of it.
"This guy is an Italian and is well up to handling the situation.
"Obviously if a player steps out of line there are definitely no excuses."
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11667_5279743,00.html
I would hate to see any player miss a cup final through a yellow card offense...I hope the referee handles the game well..For United's 3 guys on yellows and Arsenal's 3 or 4 as well
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Should be a great game... out of our hands so may the best team win
We should have taken a bigger lead but that's gone now... We are very capable of scoring at the Emirates and I have no doubt we will
Same team for me that started the 1st leg...high energy..high goal scoring ability with a solid back 4
Come on United!
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Go Utd :wavetowel: :wavetowel:
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Go Utd :wavetowel: :wavetowel:
go home unt :rotfl:
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UNITED UNITED UNITED UNITED :devil: :wavetowel: :whip:
LICKS IN ALYUH ASS TOMOROW :flamethrower: :flamethrower: :flamethrower:
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Arsenal v Man Utd past clashes in photos
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8023617.stm
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45712000/jpg/_45712583_yorke2001.jpg)
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dais the striker that make me a Man Utd fan :devil:
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Arsenal v Man Utd past clashes in photos
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8023617.stm
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45712000/jpg/_45712583_yorke2001.jpg)
i remember that arsenal were understrength and that goal yorki escored with his knee on of his hatrick that day
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C'mon UNITED.
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Arsenal: Almunia, Sagna, Toure, Djourou, Gibbs, Walcott, Fabregas, Song Billong, Nasri, Van Persie and Adebayor.
Subs from: Fabianski, Eboue, Silvestre, Diaby, Denilson, Vela and Bendtner.
Man Utd: Van der Sar, O'Shea, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Fletcher, Carrick, Anderson, Park, Ronaldo and Rooney. Subs from: Kuszczak, Rafael Da Silva, Evans, Giggs, Scholes, Berbatov and Tevez.
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stream?
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http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/player?gameId=5039&sportCode=&league=undefined (http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/player?gameId=5039&sportCode=&league=undefined)
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stream?
http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=38143&part=sports
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I fortel ah Cut Arse-nal :devil:
jk.......I doh care one way or the other...play allya fitball
well eh eh look ting
meh Boy, "Park" one in de back of the net ;D
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:flamethrower: 1 nil
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MEDIC!! MEDIC!!! OH GOD MEDIC!! RONALDO WITH A CRACKER OF A SHOT!!!! 2-0!!!!
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wha happen, dem fellas in red runnin in mud or wha?
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ah leave de game for 10 mnts and MU score 2 goals :o
VB
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cheers for the streams fellas
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c'mon united.onto rome.
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Game DONE!!!!!!!
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Game DONE!!!!!!!
fuh arsenal ;D
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Game DONE!!!!!!!
fuh arsenal ;D
Even after the first round of replays I didn't think that Almunia had set a wall and ah was cussin he ass, but after further review......a two-man wall, and the shot went over it. This is one of crybaby's best free kicks he has ever taken. Ah have no choice but to give credit to de gyul.
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Two words for you bastards...GLORY! GLORY!....GO MAN U!!!!!!!!!!! :beermug: :beermug: :beermug:
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Go Utd :wavetowel: :wavetowel:
go home unt :rotfl:
say again? u not coming through so clear.
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Two words for you bastards...GLORY! GLORY!....GO MAN U!!!!!!!!!!! :beermug: :beermug: :beermug:
that is 5
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:devil: :devil: :devil: silence at half time
GLORY GLORY !!!! :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :whip:
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:devil: :devil: :devil: silence at half time
GLORY GLORY !!!! :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :wavetowel: :whip:
it have funeral at de emirates today?.how people teary eyed so.
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let arsenal take a "beautiful" loss.... haha... pretty with no bite.... carry on...
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let arsenal take a "beautiful" loss.... haha... pretty with no bite.... carry on...
:rotfl: :rotfl: :D
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i was really expecting to see another terrific ronaldo free kick but not so much, keeper should have saved that.
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conts
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conts
why so glum chum.
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conts
why so glum chum.
i feeling like a socawarrior supporter
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y rooney still on?
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where dem fans goin :devil:
sweet sweet sweet goal
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aye dread 3 nil hahaha :devil: :devil: :devil:
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i guess i spoke to early last week when i predicted 3-0 in the game. Man u on a tear right now during the past few games. Arsenal just run into them at the wrong time
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ohhh the shame. i was backing the underdog too.
0-3.
hoping for barca vs. man u in the final. the 2 best in the world in an epic battle.
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say rrrrrrroooooooonnnnnnnnaaaaaaalllllldddddddoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.roll yuh tongue.
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berba for rooney
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consolation penalty
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WTF DAIS SHIT STUEPS , WE OUT OF FLETCHER FOR THE FINAL STUEPS ARRRGGG
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Very uninspired play by assenal. And for the life of me I doh understand why de ha Ade playing so wide. ManUre playing decent defense and gunners not even mounting much of a challenge.
Well we go take care ah de nex beautiful side tomorrow!! :devil:
Now hear dis jackass daiz not even ah foul. He scissors clip flippin Cesc but dah eh no foul?!
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:devil: :devil:
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even de ref feelin bad fuh arsenal.take a penalty
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He got the ball first before bringing down Van Persie. from the front angle it showed Fletcher getting the ball first before he brought him down.
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even de ref feelin bad fuh arsenal.take a penalty
Nah daiz ah good penalty. Not a red but good foul call nonetheless.
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I listening to how tommy smyth carryin' on and on and on, stampin' he foot like rumpelstiltskin about how fletcher "played the ball". The fackin referee couldn't see that oh-so-delicate back heel of a touch from behind both players and he failing to mention that. Ah change meh mind.....gimme Max Bretos nex year, oui!
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This is from Sky Sports itself
"It was a horror call from the referee. Fletcher got round Fabregas to hook the ball away. It looked a top challenge but the red came out. The Scot now misses the final. Terrible."
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He got the ball first before bringing down Fabregas. from the front angle it showed Fletcher getting the ball first before he brought him down.
look at where the referee was in relation to the play before allyuh start cryin' about the call, please.
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I listening to how tommy smyth carryin' on and on and on, stampin' he foot like rumpelstiltskin about how fletcher "played the ball". The fackin referee couldn't see that oh-so-delicate back heel of a touch from behind both players and he failing to mention that. Ah change meh mind.....gimme Max Bretos nex year, oui!
you will be hearing 'YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS' at every broadcast now hahahaha
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This is from Sky Sports itself
"It was a horror call from the referee. Fletcher got round Fabregas to hook the ball away. It looked a top challenge but the red came out. The Scot now misses the final. Terrible."
Dem could say anything it was still ah foul in the box. No card necessary but he bring dong de man.
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I listening to how tommy smyth carryin' on and on and on, stampin' he foot like rumpelstiltskin about how fletcher "played the ball". The fackin referee couldn't see that oh-so-delicate back heel of a touch from behind both players and he failing to mention that. Ah change meh mind.....gimme Max Bretos nex year, oui!
you will be hearing 'YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS' at every broadcast now hahahaha
hahahaha YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS :rotfl:
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Ref call 3 ass calls on Rafael doh. Like he eh like Raffy lol
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This is from Sky Sports itself
"It was a horror call from the referee. Fletcher got round Fabregas to hook the ball away. It looked a top challenge but the red came out. The Scot now misses the final. Terrible."
Dem could say anything it was still ah foul in the box. No card necessary but he bring dong de man.
People does forget that FIFA had LONG since begun a campaign to stamp out bad tackles from behind (which most referees have still been getting wrong) but even if you play the ball, you can't go through the back of a player to do so. So, even though nashy fletch got some slight lucky touch on the ball (which the ref would never be able to see from where HE was behind the play), it's the method of basically going throgh the Arsenal man that got the foul called, not to mention he was the last man, ALSO denying a clear goal-scoring opportunity. All that considered, the red card was an easy decision.
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Yeh behind the back tackle and last man, them ref like robot now
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Yeh behind the back tackle and last man, them ref like robot now
Dem have rules to follow nothing to do with being no robot, doh talk shit. He tackle from behind and brought the man down. Yeah he get ball but that don't entitle yuh to take out the player in de process.
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question, how important is fletcher 2 manu?
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question, how important is fletcher 2 manu?
They have enough options
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right he i see Chelsea losing tomorrow :devil:
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right he i see Chelsea losing tomorrow :devil:
Only in yuh flippin dreams fella!! We puttin 2 in dey cont!! Dey might get 1 back but we surely given dem 2!!!
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He got the ball first before bringing down Fabregas. from the front angle it showed Fletcher getting the ball first before he brought him down.
look at where the referee was in relation to the play before allyuh start cryin' about the call, please.
they showed u a back view from the ref angle. there was clearly a deviation on the ball with Fletchers tackle b4 he took down the other player.
Say what, if arsenal didnt get the call, men woulda be talking real shit bout Utd getting all the decisions. the red hurt though
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He got the ball first before bringing down Fabregas. from the front angle it showed Fletcher getting the ball first before he brought him down.
look at where the referee was in relation to the play before allyuh start cryin' about the call, please.
they showed u a back view from the ref angle. there was clearly a deviation on the ball with Fletchers tackle b4 he took down the other player.
Say what, if arsenal didnt get the call, men woulda be talking real shit bout Utd getting all the decisions. the red hurt though
It shouldna be ah red nor any card fuh dat matter but it was still ah penalty doh!
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Good result, we got the result arsenal needed to get. GREAT.........That wasn't a red card for Fletcher he played the ball first, but say what refs dont always see everything.
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Forget dat, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD, we going to take it all
ManU 4 EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR :devil: :beermug: :rotfl:
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look Brave Heart after de red
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d95/saints_no27/fergie.gif) :devil:
thanks scarface
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The better team won over both legs. I really feel for Gibbs and then Alumina should have done better. The game was over then.
Congrats to ManU no substitute for experience :applause: :applause:
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The better team won over both legs. I really feel for Gibbs and then Alumina should have done better. The game was over then.
Congrats to ManU no substitute for experience :applause: :applause:
sorry for gibbs, but thats how it is.
Almunia kept well....
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neva send hens to ah cock fight.we will conquer rome.
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He got the ball first before bringing down Fabregas. from the front angle it showed Fletcher getting the ball first before he brought him down.
look at where the referee was in relation to the play before allyuh start cryin' about the call, please.
they showed u a back view from the ref angle. there was clearly a deviation on the ball with Fletchers tackle b4 he took down the other player.
Say what, if arsenal didnt get the call, men woulda be talking real shit bout Utd getting all the decisions. the red hurt though
Regardless of the deviation, you cannot go through a player to play the ball. Fletcher practically went through the man.......besides, on ESPN right now, Shaka and the other guy saying the same thing I've been tellin y'all.....the only member of the panel to DECIDEDLY NOT call it a foul.....is the Englishman. I ain't surprised.
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Regardless of the deviation, you cannot go through a player to play the ball. Fletcher practically went through the man.......besides, on ESPN right now, Shaka and the other guy saying the same thing I've been tellin y'all.....the only member of the panel to DECIDEDLY NOT call it a foul.....is the Englishman. I ain't surprised.
I don't even think it should have any argument whether it's a foul at all. Man who arguing that on straight up bullshit. The card was a bit harsh but in all fairness referees aren't allowed any leeway in making that call. He have to follow the letter of the law and despite Fletcher initial touch, if he don't clip Cesc he still has a chance with his right foot to poke it past Van Der Sar. Therefore it's a red card infraction.
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Terrible red card decision takes the shine off a fantastic away performance... Fletcher got to the ball first .. fine give a penalty but to give a guy a red card when his side are on the way to rome and it was a good tackle is complete utter bullshit
UEFA should reverse the decision but they wont because we are English and we are Manchester United
Anyway....we are back in the Final and will win it for Fletch
Big side is Big side
Glory Glory Man Utd and Viva Ronaldo
f**k OFF HATERS
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Almunia work real hard but for a while in that 2nd half it was men against boys. United toy with Arsenal and the 3rd goal was clinical.
I know Ronaldo (the big game choker?) will get no credit on here but he show why he is such a valuable player. He hold the attention of Arsenal defense whole night and make space for Rooney, Tevez and Anderson becuase you have to respect his power, pace and ability in front of goal.
Big games for Fletcher, Park and O'Shea. Yuh can't get better squad players than that. Rooney, Vidic and Anderson just like to win EVERYTHING. A real good performance by the whole team but Arsenal were abit of a joke. I surprised that Wenger was so bullish before the game guaranteeing a good Arsenal performance.
Two CL finals in consecutive years, possibly three straight league titles, all after Fergie get write off when Chelsea was winning. Have to give the old man credit, he know how to manage a football side.
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Terrible red card decision takes the shine off a fantastic away performance... Fletcher got to the ball first .. fine give a penalty but to give a guy a red card when his side are on the way to rome and it was a good tackle is complete utter bullshit
UEFA should reverse the decision but they wont because we are English and we are Manchester United
Anyway....we are back in the Final and will win it for Fletch
Big side is Big side
Glory Glory Man Utd and Viva Ronaldo
f**k OFF HATERS
It have nothing to do with english. UEFA doesn't allow appeals of cards.
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Almunia work real hard but for a while in that 2nd half it was men against boys. United toy with Arsenal and the 3rd goal was clinical.
I know Ronaldo (the big game choker?) will get no credit on here but he show why he is such a valuable player. He hold the attention of Arsenal defense whole night and make space for Rooney, Tevez and Anderson becuase you have to respect his power, pace and ability in front of goal.
Big games for Fletcher, Park and O'Shea. Yuh can't get better squad players than that. Rooney, Vidic and Anderson just like to win EVERYTHING. A real good performance by the whole team but Arsenal were abit of a joke. I surprised that Wenger was so bullish before the game guaranteeing a good Arsenal performance.
Two CL finals in consecutive years, possibly three straight league titles, all after Fergie get write off when Chelsea was winning. Have to give the old man credit, he know how to manage a football side.
Which game you see he play in fella? :rotfl:
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Regardless of the deviation, you cannot go through a player to play the ball. Fletcher practically went through the man.......besides, on ESPN right now, Shaka and the other guy saying the same thing I've been tellin y'all.....the only member of the panel to DECIDEDLY NOT call it a foul.....is the Englishman. I ain't surprised.
I don't even think it should have any argument whether it's a foul at all. Man who arguing that on straight up bullshit. The card was a bit harsh but in all fairness referees aren't allowed any leeway in making that call. He have to follow the letter of the law and despite Fletcher initial touch, if he don't clip Cesc he still has a chance with his right foot to poke it past Van Der Sar. Therefore it's a red card infraction.
Yuh ain't lie. the facts are (1) you can possibly argue that Fabregas did not have a goalscoring opportunity....possibly. But yuh can't argue that (2) he was the last defender. How them manu fans could want to argue that call and talk about that peter pan touch on the ball is beyond me. Some of them men are sadly, definitely immature and beyond reason.
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Yuh ain't lie. the facts are (1) you can possibly argue that Fabregas did not have a goalscoring opportunity....possibly. But yuh can't argue that (2) he was the last defender. How them manu fans could want to argue that call and talk about that peter pan touch on the ball is beyond me. Some of them men are sadly, definitely immature and beyond reason.
CR musse sweat in dey eye so dey eh see it clear :rotfl:
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It was hurtful to watch this game. Congrats to Man U you were the better team. I too feel sorry for Gibbs but it was his 2nd time falling in the box in a critical situation (he did it in Old Trafford as well). Almunia did well but that 2nd goal should have been saved - and that was a soft call - wuss a$$ ref!!
Anyhow, it was not the ref to blame for our performance. Wenger HAS to make changes and get some better defenders and midfielders. As one of the forumities said, "There is no substitute for experience."
ps..Flecther did not deserve de red card fuh de tackle.
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Terrible red card decision takes the shine off a fantastic away performance... Fletcher got to the ball first .. fine give a penalty but to give a guy a red card when his side are on the way to rome and it was a good tackle is complete utter bullshit
UEFA should reverse the decision but they wont because we are English and we are Manchester United
Anyway....we are back in the Final and will win it for Fletch
Big side is Big side
Glory Glory Man Utd and Viva Ronaldo
f**k OFF HATERS
It have nothing to do with english. UEFA doesn't allow appeals of cards.
I know that...but they should overturn it as it is soul crushing for Fletcher to miss a CL Final due to a referee error... that is madness...If Messi went through the same thing tomorrow I would have the same sentiments
It is disgusting
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Almunia work real hard but for a while in that 2nd half it was men against boys. United toy with Arsenal and the 3rd goal was clinical.
I know Ronaldo (the big game choker?) will get no credit on here but he show why he is such a valuable player. He hold the attention of Arsenal defense whole night and make space for Rooney, Tevez and Anderson becuase you have to respect his power, pace and ability in front of goal.
Big games for Fletcher, Park and O'Shea. Yuh can't get better squad players than that. Rooney, Vidic and Anderson just like to win EVERYTHING. A real good performance by the whole team but Arsenal were abit of a joke. I surprised that Wenger was so bullish before the game guaranteeing a good Arsenal performance.
Two CL finals in consecutive years, possibly three straight league titles, all after Fergie get write off when Chelsea was winning. Have to give the old man credit, he know how to manage a football side.
Yuh know, JDB, even for me, as much as ah hate de lil' boy, I have to give cronaldo the man-of-the-match for this game. That free kick was an absolute heart breaker (even though arsenal left their hearts at home today) and he kept the entire defense on their heels whole game. The second goal he scored was a classic counter attacking run that you are so used to seein manu put together against the bottonm tier EPL teams so often. It wasn't supposed to mak arsenal defenders look so bad.
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Terrible red card decision takes the shine off a fantastic away performance... Fletcher got to the ball first .. fine give a penalty but to give a guy a red card when his side are on the way to rome and it was a good tackle is complete utter bullshit
UEFA should reverse the decision but they wont because we are English and we are Manchester United
Anyway....we are back in the Final and will win it for Fletch
Big side is Big side
Glory Glory Man Utd and Viva Ronaldo
f**k OFF HATERS
It have nothing to do with english. UEFA doesn't allow appeals of cards.
I know that...but they should overturn it as it is soul crushing for Fletcher to miss a CL Final due to a referee error... that is madness...If Messi went through the same thing tomorrow I would have the same sentiments
It is disgusting
Small Mag.....you can go on FIFA website and read up on all the rules, jed. This call was not a referee's error, and even if it were a call worthy of some type of an appeal (amybe the sentimental clause you're looking for) , UEFA would not overturn it. It was a good call by the ref.
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I know that...but they should overturn it as it is soul crushing for Fletcher to miss a CL Final due to a referee error... that is madness...If Messi went through the same thing tomorrow I would have the same sentiments
It is disgusting
So doh overturn it because it tie de referees hands and possibly can penalize players uneceassarily, but do it so as to not crush ManUre fans souls :rotfl:
Aye allyuh good yes. I agree they should allow appeals doh lol
Chow and JDB I with allyuh CR did a very good job and was the most dangerous man on the pitch. Like him or not he is effective and causes nightmares for defenders and opposing managers alike.
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Hard luck dey Gibbs, hope he come back stronger. Well done United, played like a team who knows how to win. The team with the best players won. Arsenal will only win moral victories not trophies if they keep waiting for their 'young' players to mature and in the mean time they will either move on or keep gettin hurt.
Fergie killin the opposition with how he set up the side for matches- it helps when the players are very interchangable and all have high football IQs!
Glory, glory Man United!
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I feel it for Gibbs and fletcher. But...according to the letter of the law....it was a red.
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ManU..whey sah. Superb performance.
Fletcher is class and didn't carry on with his red card cuz he know he do shit. Big players know you can't tackle from behind, even if you get ball first. How many times you see many come in studs up, get all ball and no man and still collect a yellow. It doh matter..you cna't come in studs up, you can't tackle from behind..it never matters how much ball you iwn first. Refs in England does let man get away with that. But this is Europe fellas. Rules are rules. He get the red or being the last man. Fact is, his side was up 4-0 and had 3 away goals. Just continue to put pressure on the mana nd let Van Der Saar try to handle the rest. Absolutely no need to go through the man. Man is an experienced pro. He know he do stupidness.
C Ronaldo is a big farking player. He is poison and he have funk. I maintain that if he was a Trini we woulda think the man was better than Maradona. lol.
Park Ji Sung :notworthy: :applause:
ManU show today that they eh giving up day trophy without a fight.
ps. Berabatov is class but he doh belong on that side. He came on the field today and just did not look like a ManU player. I know he silky smooth and all that, and I know I eh saying nutten scientific, but somewhere in my gut, he just doh seem like he fit in the ManU philosophy
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This is from Sky Sports itself
"It was a horror call from the referee. Fletcher got round Fabregas to hook the ball away. It looked a top challenge but the red came out. The Scot now misses the final. Terrible."
Dem could say anything it was still ah foul in the box. No card necessary but he bring dong de man.
People does forget that FIFA had LONG since begun a campaign to stamp out bad tackles from behind (which most referees have still been getting wrong) but even if you play the ball, you can't go through the back of a player to do so. So, even though nashy fletch got some slight lucky touch on the ball (which the ref would never be able to see from where HE was behind the play), it's the method of basically going throgh the Arsenal man that got the foul called, not to mention he was the last man, ALSO denying a clear goal-scoring opportunity. All that considered, the red card was an easy decision.
That's a little too objective a summary of the play for most on here.
Nex time, please remember this is a manchester united fan site first and foremost before you post.
Thanks 8)
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Great performance by United. Thoroughly deserved victory and Arsenal were more than 2nd best over BOTH legs.
Cruel luck on young Gibbs and Almunia really came up with a howler for the 2nd goal after that inspired performance at Old trafford last week. Those two goals, coming within 3 minutes of each other, settled the tie. There was no way Arsenal with their lack of firepower were going to put 4 past Man U without reply for the rest of the game.
Anxiously await tomorrow's encounter to see who Man U will play in the Final. Whoever it is, it promises to be a great final.
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WTF DAIS SHIT STUEPS , WE OUT OF FLETCHER FOR THE FINAL STUEPS ARRRGGG
was a penalty, last man, holding the attacking play while through on goal with goal scoring opportunity, fletcher should have not risked it
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congrats to man united. they were clearly the better side over the two legs. questions need to be asked of mr wenger and by mr wenger, this side is clearly not good enough.
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This is from Sky Sports itself
"It was a horror call from the referee. Fletcher got round Fabregas to hook the ball away. It looked a top challenge but the red came out. The Scot now misses the final. Terrible."
Dem could say anything it was still ah foul in the box. No card necessary but he bring dong de man.
My apologies, Sir. I allowed my sense of reasoning to get the better of my posting......I forgot who I was addressing, what I was talking about......won't happen again. :beermug:
People does forget that FIFA had LONG since begun a campaign to stamp out bad tackles from behind (which most referees have still been getting wrong) but even if you play the ball, you can't go through the back of a player to do so. So, even though nashy fletch got some slight lucky touch on the ball (which the ref would never be able to see from where HE was behind the play), it's the method of basically going throgh the Arsenal man that got the foul called, not to mention he was the last man, ALSO denying a clear goal-scoring opportunity. All that considered, the red card was an easy decision.
That's a little too objective a summary of the play for most on here.
Nex time, please remember this is a manchester united fan site first and foremost before you post.
Thanks 8)
Sorry, Boss. I let my sense of reasoning get to me and my post, not remembering what I was talking about, who I was "talking to". I will know my Chelsea place nex' time, tanx fuh de warning. :beermug:
***corrected***
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CR look like he ready to play for Untied again
Loved the way he kissed the shield/logo on his chest when he scored. Hope he keeps it up and play to his potential.
Rooney is a real real team player boy.
U have to admire the way men like Park, Fletcher, O Shea and Anderson does step up, and of course the way that Fergi does utilize them. Tell me, would a side like Barca, Real, Chelsea, Inter or AC etc. buy or start those players in such a big game? BIG PLAYERS FOR A BIG CLUB PICKED BY A BIG MANAGER FOR BIG GAMES. :notworthy:
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CR look like he ready to play for Untied again
Loved the way he kissed the shield/logo on his chest when he scored. Hope he keeps it up and play to his potential.
Rooney is a real real team player boy.
U have to admire the way men like Park, Fletcher, O Shea and Anderson does step up, and of course the way that Fergi does utilize them. Tell me, would a side like Barca, Real, Chelsea, Inter or AC etc. buy or start those players in such a big game? BIG PLAYERS FOR A BIG CLUB PICKED BY A BIG MANAGER FOR BIG GAMES. :notworthy:
He was kissing the world champions crest. buh i hadda admit..he real play today. Park as well...fletcher....and my boy anderson. Half de puzzle in place...jus need Barca to show dem pothound wha football supposed to be.
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Manchester United Defender Evra: It Was Men Against Children
(http://i.media.goal.com/g/44342.jpg)
Manchester United had little trouble moving past Arsenal in the Champions League semi-finals, winning 4-1 on aggregate. Defender Patrice Evra took some time to discuss the match and made a few statements that will rile up the Gunners faithful.
"Even today we have proved again that we are a strong team. They all spoke about this beautiful game of Arsenal, but unlike them, we allowed fewer goals and won, in addition to playing well," the 27-year-old explained to Sky Sport immediately after the match.
"Today, the result was just, we also could have won 3-0. In football, beautiful play is not everything."
The former Monaco star was confident that the Red Devils displayed their superiority over the Gunners.
"We are 11 men, they are 11 children, this is the difference. We are much more mature and have more confidence."
Meanwhile, the left-back concluded by praising both Wayne Rooney and Cristiano Ronaldo for the contributions to the club on their way to the final in Rome.
"After he [Ronaldo] won the Golden Ball, people criticized him for a while because he wasn't at his best, but in reality he has never played badly," he continued. "Rooney? Playing alongside him is great, he is a player who manages to do everything."
Despite stomach pains, Evra played a competent 65 minutes of the match before being substituted for Rafael Da Silva.
Adam Scime, Goal.com
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CR look like he ready to play for Untied again
Loved the way he kissed the shield/logo on his chest when he scored. Hope he keeps it up and play to his potential.
Rooney is a real real team player boy.
U have to admire the way men like Park, Fletcher, O Shea and Anderson does step up, and of course the way that Fergi does utilize them. Tell me, would a side like Barca, Real, Chelsea, Inter or AC etc. buy or start those players in such a big game? BIG PLAYERS FOR A BIG CLUB PICKED BY A BIG MANAGER FOR BIG GAMES. :notworthy:
Alyuh does get carried away quick boy..as if mourinho didn't start a teenager who put a muzzle on that same super ronaldo a couple UCL games ago...
but I forget is a man u forum....only man u does pick decent squad players who contribute in big games...
smh...
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CR look like he ready to play for Untied again
Loved the way he kissed the shield/logo on his chest when he scored. Hope he keeps it up and play to his potential.
Rooney is a real real team player boy.
U have to admire the way men like Park, Fletcher, O Shea and Anderson does step up, and of course the way that Fergi does utilize them. Tell me, would a side like Barca, Real, Chelsea, Inter or AC etc. buy or start those players in such a big game? BIG PLAYERS FOR A BIG CLUB PICKED BY A BIG MANAGER FOR BIG GAMES. :notworthy:
you serious. Doh be calling Barca in dat shit ;D heheh Barca plays more product from their youth system than any elite side in Europe. Gerard Pique, Iniesta, Messi, Victor Valdez, Bojan, Busquets all regulars (actually Bojan ride some hard bench dis season). But all called to play big roles in big games and some are still youths as far as the game is concerned. Same for older heads like Xavi and Puyol. they got their chances from very young. In fact Pique is the best counterpoint to your claim. How much run he woulda be getting for ManU now. Not as much as at Barca. Barca bloods their youths..doh get vex cuz they have nicer touches than Fletcher and dem...hehh :devil:
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Adebayor made some comments about wanting to win and four years without a trophy is unacceptable. "I don't what I will do etc." etc. Now it seems Arsenal fans have had enough. On the forum you seeing replies like this.
"I got an idea Ade....how about you dont disappear for 180 minutes, and step up in a big game like a world class striker would do....Ade is not the only one to be blamed, but his agent is talking about interest here, interest there, Ade's eyes are wayward....but he and the team had an opportunity right in their hands....these are big games for big trophies....instead of standing tall, you looked small....Next year, do you want another raise to 100,000 pounds a week or you will hold Arsenal ransom again...to be a world class striker, you have to show up in big games, and make a difference with the smallest of opportunities, create #### for yourself....Ronaldo was off form in the beginning of the year, but look how he has stood tall in big moments for his club (though he didnt do it for his country and the faces he makes sometimes makes me want to punch him in the face)....many players in Arsenal need to look into the mirror and self reflect..."
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CR look like he ready to play for Untied again
Loved the way he kissed the shield/logo on his chest when he scored. Hope he keeps it up and play to his potential.
Rooney is a real real team player boy.
U have to admire the way men like Park, Fletcher, O Shea and Anderson does step up, and of course the way that Fergi does utilize them. Tell me, would a side like Barca, Real, Chelsea, Inter or AC etc. buy or start those players in such a big game? BIG PLAYERS FOR A BIG CLUB PICKED BY A BIG MANAGER FOR BIG GAMES. :notworthy:
Alyuh does get carried away quick boy..as if mourinho didn't start a teenager who put a muzzle on that same super ronaldo a couple UCL games ago...
but I forget is a man u forum....only man u does pick decent squad players who contribute in big games...
smh...
Allyuh missing the point. Is not youth i speaking about. I talking about these players are not quite ranked as superstars/ super skilled players such as Balotelli, Xavi, Bohan Messi, Rooney,Ronaldo, Robin, RVN etc etc etc.
Tell me. Can a player like fletcher make a Barca / Real CL semi final side? (well not Real eh...cause they cyahmake semi finals :rotfl: )
BTW Pique fine tuned his skills at Utd .- So we taking credit for him ;D
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Can a player like fletcher make a Barca / Real CL semi final side? (well not Real eh...cause they cyahmake semi finals :rotfl: )
BTW Pique fine tuned his skills at Utd .- So we taking credit for him ;D
so effectively, you faulting Barca for acquiring/developing too many "better" players.
it seems kinda circular: some of the men who are considered as "bigger players" than fletcher are held in that regard only because they have longer histories of being selected/performing on big occasions. If Fletcher continues to have good performances for a big side in important matches he will naturally come to be considered a big player.
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Adebayor made some comments about wanting to win and four years without a trophy is unacceptable. "I don't what I will do etc." etc. Now it seems Arsenal fans have had enough. On the forum you seeing replies like this.
"I got an idea Ade....how about you dont disappear for 180 minutes, and step up in a big game like a world class striker would do....Ade is not the only one to be blamed, but his agent is talking about interest here, interest there, Ade's eyes are wayward....but he and the team had an opportunity right in their hands....these are big games for big trophies....instead of standing tall, you looked small....Next year, do you want another raise to 100,000 pounds a week or you will hold Arsenal ransom again...to be a world class striker, you have to show up in big games, and make a difference with the smallest of opportunities, create #### for yourself....Ronaldo was off form in the beginning of the year, but look how he has stood tall in big moments for his club (though he didnt do it for his country and the faces he makes sometimes makes me want to punch him in the face)....many players in Arsenal need to look into the mirror and self reflect..."
Adebayor need to put a bowl of milk out on de floor and maybe dat would keep he cyat quiet! The man did absolutely nothing for this tie, and it's not entirely about scoring goals. When you watching this game you were seeing one team in blue fighting for every ball, playing like they were 2 goals down, against a team in red that played (one or two individuals aside) like they had better things to do. I really feel Almunia could have done maybe a little better on the second goal, but that one goal cannot deface his effort and performance over the two legs. A teams attitude on the pitch is reflective of their coach. Maybe it's time to find a replacement for arsene9, somebody who is going to bare some teeth and show some belly along with their twinkle-toes football.
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CR look like he ready to play for Untied again
Loved the way he kissed the shield/logo on his chest when he scored. Hope he keeps it up and play to his potential.
Rooney is a real real team player boy.
U have to admire the way men like Park, Fletcher, O Shea and Anderson does step up, and of course the way that Fergi does utilize them. Tell me, would a side like Barca, Real, Chelsea, Inter or AC etc. buy or start those players in such a big game? BIG PLAYERS FOR A BIG CLUB PICKED BY A BIG MANAGER FOR BIG GAMES. :notworthy:
you serious. Doh be calling Barca in dat shit ;D heheh Barca plays more product from their youth system than any elite side in Europe. Gerard Pique, Iniesta, Messi, Victor Valdez, Bojan, Busquets all regulars (actually Bojan ride some hard bench dis season). But all called to play big roles in big games and some are still youths as far as the game is concerned. Same for older heads like Xavi and Puyol. they got their chances from very young. In fact Pique is the best counterpoint to your claim. How much run he woulda be getting for ManU now. Not as much as at Barca. Barca bloods their youths..doh get vex cuz they have nicer touches than Fletcher and dem...hehh :devil:
Funny how Pique and Puyol are good players but Barca's central defense is their biggets perceived weakness
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It was a penalty but the challenge was clumsy more than anything and didn't deserve a red. Replays showed that Fletcher made a legitimate attempt to clear the ball and was just clumsy in doing so. He wasn't being malicious and it wasn't a professional foul.
The referee was correct in giving the penalty but he should have shown a bit of common sense and left it at that.
A few minutes after that Adebayor tries to smash Carricks shin with his studs and its nothing more than a yellow...no wonder Fergie was fuming at that one.
United got their tactics spot on. Playing Ronaldo up front on his own with Rooney coming in from the left caused Arsenal all sorts of bother. They expected Arsenal to come out flying, which is what they did. They sat back, hustled and harried and defended in numbers and hit them on the counter when space was available. Arsenal bombing forward the way they did in the first seven minutes was like committing hari kari...but they had no choice. You can blame Gibbs for the first goal if you like, but I was left wondering as to what Toure and Djourou were doing? A low cross is knocked into the box and Arsenals centre-backs are nowhere to be found...
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CR look like he ready to play for Untied again
Loved the way he kissed the shield/logo on his chest when he scored. Hope he keeps it up and play to his potential.
Rooney is a real real team player boy.
U have to admire the way men like Park, Fletcher, O Shea and Anderson does step up, and of course the way that Fergi does utilize them. Tell me, would a side like Barca, Real, Chelsea, Inter or AC etc. buy or start those players in such a big game? BIG PLAYERS FOR A BIG CLUB PICKED BY A BIG MANAGER FOR BIG GAMES. :notworthy:
Alyuh does get carried away quick boy..as if mourinho didn't start a teenager who put a muzzle on that same super ronaldo a couple UCL games ago...
but I forget is a man u forum....only man u does pick decent squad players who contribute in big games...
smh...
Allyuh missing the point. Is not youth i speaking about. I talking about these players are not quite ranked as superstars/ super skilled players such as Balotelli, Xavi, Bohan Messi, Rooney,Ronaldo, Robin, RVN etc etc etc.
Tell me. Can a player like fletcher make a Barca / Real CL semi final side? (well not Real eh...cause they cyahmake semi finals :rotfl: )
BTW Pique fine tuned his skills at Utd .- So we taking credit for him ;D
I eh know boy Sammy, Gerrard Pique still learning the game....at the right club :devil: Under all the old talk, I and all was surprised that ManU would call down a starting 11 with Fletcher, Park and O'Shea. I respect them as players and know they are seasoned professionals who have been through many Champion's League campaigns and are accomplished internationals in their own right. Fergie also didn't buy them because they mediocre. He bought them cuz he saw they could be big players who would bring something to the United way of playing. Sadly, plenty fans doh rate them players cuz dey not flashy, or because they not guaranteed a start at manU....but they have proven they are big players who can rise to the occasion long ago, for club and country. And it was a process...didn't buy them yesterday, and it not all down to Fergie either. What Park went through playing for Korea in WC 2002 would have already shown Fergie that he is a big player for the big occasion. All the big teams have these kinds of 'unheralded' players and to me it is analogous to what Barca does with their youth players...When I look at current squads, I see a Barca side who gives more untried, youngsters the opportunities most (not all) of the big clubs would not.
Anyhow..give Fergie credit for getting that 11 to play that way. He knows his players and how to get the very most out of them. As for Anderson..well I rate him highly. I find he should be starting for Brazil ahead of the aging Gilberto Silva. Dais why I didn't mention him. :beermug:
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It was a penalty but the challenge was clumsy more than anything and didn't deserve a red. Replays showed that Fletcher made a legitimate attempt to clear the ball and was just clumsy in doing so. He wasn't being malicious and it wasn't a professional foul.
The referee was correct in giving the penalty but he should have shown a bit of common sense and left it at that.
A few minutes after that Adebayor tries to smash Carricks shin with his studs and its nothing more than a yellow...no wonder Fergie was fuming at that one.
United got their tactics spot on. Playing Ronaldo up front on his own with Rooney coming in from the left caused Arsenal all sorts of bother. They expected Arsenal to come out flying, which is what they did. They sat back, hustled and harried and defended in numbers and hit them on the counter when space was available. Arsenal bombing forward the way they did in the first seven minutes was like committing hari kari...but they had no choice. You can blame Gibbs for the first goal if you like, but I was left wondering as to what Toure and Djourou were doing? A low cross is knocked into the box and Arsenals centre-backs are nowhere to be found...
Clumsiness or intent does not change the infraction nor does it change the rules. Fletcher was the last defender and he denied a goal-scoring opportunity: TWO red-cardable offenses wrapped up in one stupid tackle, and, as the panelissts begged the question yesterday, people are calling for the referee to show "common sense" but fletcher needed to show some common sense first. Once you wrap a leg (from behind) high around a man upper body and clip his feet with your trail leg.....yuh asking fuh a red card.
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The implementation of the red card for th elast defender in th ebox has always been one of FIFA's stupidest rules. Before the "last defender/goalscoring opportunity" red card was in effect you would have players fouling opponents with impunity outside the box a la Schumacher vs battiston in 1982.
Because the foul was outside the box, there could never be a penalty an dif the foul was very professional and not violent there would be no red card as well. Hence really cynical defenders could get away with murder.
It makes sense to apply the penalty of being sent off for a professional foul outside the box and that helps the game.
It makes absolutely no sense to apply it to a foul called within the box however because the penalty kick is already an adequate punishment for such an offence. if the foul is violent then certainly give a red card. I could even understand if you add an automatic yellow card to the penalty to further punish the player but the automatic red card for a foul called in the box is overkill.
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On another note I feel for Gibbs but the general sentiment seems to be that he slipped. That is he was a victim of fortune.
Nobody seems to notice that is was very poor defending on his part, no doubt a result of his inexperience in such a big game. When Ronaldo crossed the ball, Gibbs completely misread the line the ball was travelling and over-ran the ball. It was his attempt to completely change his momentum and direction that caused him to "slip" and fall but he should never have needed to do that in the first place.
Even if he had stayed on his feet, with that spin all he could do was trap or parry the ball with his left foot while facing Park, and it would have been ripe for the onrushing Park to rip it off him.
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This is from Sky Sports itself
"It was a horror call from the referee. Fletcher got round Fabregas to hook the ball away. It looked a top challenge but the red came out. The Scot now misses the final. Terrible."
Dem could say anything it was still ah foul in the box. No card necessary but he bring dong de man.
People does forget that FIFA had LONG since begun a campaign to stamp out bad tackles from behind (which most referees have still been getting wrong) but even if you play the ball, you can't go through the back of a player to do so. So, even though nashy fletch got some slight lucky touch on the ball (which the ref would never be able to see from where HE was behind the play), it's the method of basically going throgh the Arsenal man that got the foul called, not to mention he was the last man, ALSO denying a clear goal-scoring opportunity. All that considered, the red card was an easy decision.
Good analysis... how does this relate to the Carrick/Gomes incident? The ref was behind the play in that incident as well, right? Could it not also be argued that from the ref's point of view, that Gomes went though Carrick to get the ball?
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The implementation of the red card for th elast defender in th ebox has always been one of FIFA's stupidest rules. Before the "last defender/goalscoring opportunity" red card was in effect you would have players fouling opponents with impunity outside the box a la Schumacher vs battiston in 1982.
Because the foul was outside the box, there could never be a penalty an dif the foul was very professional and not violent there would be no red card as well. Hence really cynical defenders could get away with murder.
It makes sense to apply the penalty of being sent off for a professional foul outside the box and that helps the game.
It makes absolutely no sense to apply it to a foul called within the box however because the penalty kick is already an adequate punishment for such an offence. if the foul is violent then certainly give a red card. I could even understand if you add an automatic yellow card to the penalty to further punish the player but the automatic red card for a foul called in the box is overkill.
Good points JDB....according to the letter of the law, last defender, foul in the process of a goal scoring opportunity is a red, but this is where the referee has to use discretion. The infraction occurred inside the box so definitely a foul, and hence a penalty. True Fletcher got a touch to the ball, but the follow through, speed of occurrence and referee positioning is what led to the call. The straight red though I do not believe was warranted. The foul was not a deliberate or professional one, and there was an attempt at the ball rather than the man. If he already blew for the foul in the box = penalty, no need for a red too. Again, this is based on everything that happened in that play.
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This is from Sky Sports itself
"It was a horror call from the referee. Fletcher got round Fabregas to hook the ball away. It looked a top challenge but the red came out. The Scot now misses the final. Terrible."
Dem could say anything it was still ah foul in the box. No card necessary but he bring dong de man.
People does forget that FIFA had LONG since begun a campaign to stamp out bad tackles from behind (which most referees have still been getting wrong) but even if you play the ball, you can't go through the back of a player to do so. So, even though nashy fletch got some slight lucky touch on the ball (which the ref would never be able to see from where HE was behind the play), it's the method of basically going throgh the Arsenal man that got the foul called, not to mention he was the last man, ALSO denying a clear goal-scoring opportunity. All that considered, the red card was an easy decision.
Good analysis... how does this relate to the Carrick/Gomes incident? The ref was behind the play in that incident as well, right? Could it not also be argued that from the ref's point of view, that Gomes went though Carrick to get the ball?
Not necessarily. A goalkeeper diving at the feet of an opponent is not always the same as a player tackling
another from behind. Missionary and doggie style is not the same even if yuh trow een a gouti look back. That is all about timing (and in the replays you can clearly see carrick do like most attackers do in that situation and "drag/extend" his leg, quite unnaturally, to embellish the contact.) But in that play, the so-called deviation of the ball, (a sharp 90-degree deviation) as somebody tried to bring up, was clearly because the goalkeeper had made contact with the ball and not anything else. Webb was supposed to be able to discern that. Maybe what he could not see was whether Gomes touched the ball first, or "made contact" with Carrick first.....or simultaneously. (but that is an issue that the governing bodies need to address because the rules are very unfair to the GK's, bu that is for another thread) Even so, the only thing blocking Webb's view would have been carrick's feet, plus whatever other players stood between him and the play. Yesterday's referee, given where the ball was when fletcher made his jiu-jitsu move, had his vision obscured by both players' upper bodies....plus whatever players stood between him and the play. I think Webb had an easier call to make and he blew it. The question must be asked, though, where were the respective linesmen on either of these calls? They are supposed to be called "referee's assistants" now but they are of no help whatsoever.
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The implementation of the red card for th elast defender in th ebox has always been one of FIFA's stupidest rules. Before the "last defender/goalscoring opportunity" red card was in effect you would have players fouling opponents with impunity outside the box a la Schumacher vs battiston in 1982.
Because the foul was outside the box, there could never be a penalty an dif the foul was very professional and not violent there would be no red card as well. Hence really cynical defenders could get away with murder.
It makes sense to apply the penalty of being sent off for a professional foul outside the box and that helps the game.
It makes absolutely no sense to apply it to a foul called within the box however because the penalty kick is already an adequate punishment for such an offence. if the foul is violent then certainly give a red card. I could even understand if you add an automatic yellow card to the penalty to further punish the player but the automatic red card for a foul called in the box is overkill.
I think it was a combination of the factors that led to the red in this case, and not just because it was "foul in the box" JDB. fletcher's tackle could easily be considered a "professional foul" as well even if it's not all that violent. I honestly believe that if he had committed that very same foul within the outer fringes of the 18, he would have gotten a yellow instead.
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Not necessarily. A goalkeeper diving at the feet of an opponent is not always the same as a player tackling
another from behind. Missionary and doggie style is not the same even if yuh trow een a gouti look back. That is all about timing (and in the replays you can clearly see carrick do like most attackers do in that situation and "drag/extend" his leg, quite unnaturally, to embellish the contact.) But in that play, the so-called deviation of the ball, (a sharp 90-degree deviation) as somebody tried to bring up, was clearly because the goalkeeper had made contact with the ball and not anything else. Webb was supposed to be able to discern that. Maybe what he could not see was whether Gomes touched the ball first, or "made contact" with Carrick first.....or simultaneously. (but that is an issue that the governing bodies need to address because the rules are very unfair to the GK's, bu that is for another thread) Even so, the only thing blocking Webb's view would have been carrick's feet, plus whatever other players stood between him and the play. Yesterday's referee, given where the ball was when fletcher made his jiu-jitsu move, had his vision obscured by both players' upper bodies....plus whatever players stood between him and the play. I think Webb had an easier call to make and he blew it. The question must be asked, though, where were the respective linesmen on either of these calls? They are supposed to be called "referee's assistants" now but they are of no help whatsoever.
wow, talk about illustrating a point.. ray hudson want nutten with you.. lol
Agree with the sentiments here and JDB makes some good points with regards to flaws in the law..
Nevertheless, there is a strong element of 'EPL-ness' in the uproar and arguments from Ferguson and the english contingent.
This is Europe, not England..
The refereeing is much different in that its less accomodating for wildness, it is fairer and it encourages cleaner play..
From the view the referee had, the tackle almost look like a scissors kick from behind with no ball involved and I while harsh, the red card was not unjustified. It does really irk me when these managers look at a slow motion replay, notice that their player just 'tips' the ball and then use that evidence to admonish the referee.
The better way to look at it is to consider the referee's angle on the tackle and the speed of the play to assess his decision.
It was a stupid tackle and a reasonable call.
Hard luck with the red card but such is life.
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This is from Sky Sports itself
"It was a horror call from the referee. Fletcher got round Fabregas to hook the ball away. It looked a top challenge but the red came out. The Scot now misses the final. Terrible."
Dem could say anything it was still ah foul in the box. No card necessary but he bring dong de man.
People does forget that FIFA had LONG since begun a campaign to stamp out bad tackles from behind (which most referees have still been getting wrong) but even if you play the ball, you can't go through the back of a player to do so. So, even though nashy fletch got some slight lucky touch on the ball (which the ref would never be able to see from where HE was behind the play), it's the method of basically going throgh the Arsenal man that got the foul called, not to mention he was the last man, ALSO denying a clear goal-scoring opportunity. All that considered, the red card was an easy decision.
That's a little too objective a summary of the play for most on here.
Nex time, please remember this is a manchester united fan site first and foremost before you post.
Thanks 8)
Ahhh boy Palos.
You and me on the same page.
I reading through this thread and I seeing some posts that is beyond just being a fanboy. And Small Mag leading the way.
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U have to admire the way men like Park, Fletcher, O Shea and Anderson does step up, and of course the way that Fergi does utilize them. Tell me, would a side like Barca, Real, Chelsea, Inter or AC etc. buy or start those players in such a big game? BIG PLAYERS FOR A BIG CLUB PICKED BY A BIG MANAGER FOR BIG GAMES. :notworthy:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/strenkt/GAWD.jpg)
Good grief Sammy, you're stupid!!
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U have to admire the way men like Park, Fletcher, O Shea and Anderson does step up, and of course the way that Fergi does utilize them. Tell me, would a side like Barca, Real, Chelsea, Inter or AC etc. buy or start those players in such a big game? BIG PLAYERS FOR A BIG CLUB PICKED BY A BIG MANAGER FOR BIG GAMES. :notworthy:
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/strenkt/GAWD.jpg)
Good grief Sammy, you're stupid!!
Careful now, disgruntled that might be you looking like Cuba after the game...!
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Good points JDB....according to the letter of the law, last defender, foul in the process of a goal scoring opportunity is a red, but this is where the referee has to use discretion. The infraction occurred inside the box so definitely a foul, and hence a penalty. True Fletcher got a touch to the ball, but the follow through, speed of occurrence and referee positioning is what led to the call. The straight red though I do not believe was warranted. The foul was not a deliberate or professional one, and there was an attempt at the ball rather than the man. If he already blew for the foul in the box = penalty, no need for a red too. Again, this is based on everything that happened in that play.
That isn't allowed with these types of fouls in UEFA. If we are going to discuss discretion and common sense then we must question why Fletcher didn't apply these traits. If you go to ground and don't CLEARLY get all ball first insiside the box while begining the tackle motion from behind the attacker you deserve a red simply for your stupidity in that circumstance. Clumsy or deliberate makes no difference and the refs have a clear charge in those situations. So while as a fan of the game I feel for fletcher getting a red there, I do not fault the ref in the least for making the only decision available to him under UEFA rules.
Sammy yuh talking ah king size pack ah shit with dat Fletcher talk fella!!
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The implementation of the red card for th elast defender in th ebox has always been one of FIFA's stupidest rules. Before the "last defender/goalscoring opportunity" red card was in effect you would have players fouling opponents with impunity outside the box a la Schumacher vs battiston in 1982.
Because the foul was outside the box, there could never be a penalty an dif the foul was very professional and not violent there would be no red card as well. Hence really cynical defenders could get away with murder.
It makes sense to apply the penalty of being sent off for a professional foul outside the box and that helps the game.
It makes absolutely no sense to apply it to a foul called within the box however because the penalty kick is already an adequate punishment for such an offence. if the foul is violent then certainly give a red card. I could even understand if you add an automatic yellow card to the penalty to further punish the player but the automatic red card for a foul called in the box is overkill.
Remember I started this thread years ago....years ago, and get real fight down for it..It was only you & me on the same side of the argument. I still agree that a pro foul in the box should NOT result in a red card (unless it would be considered a red card type offense on its face) because the penalty restores the scoring opportunity that the defender is accused of preventing.
http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=4394.msg33401#msg33401
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The implementation of the red card for th elast defender in th ebox has always been one of FIFA's stupidest rules. Before the "last defender/goalscoring opportunity" red card was in effect you would have players fouling opponents with impunity outside the box a la Schumacher vs battiston in 1982.
Because the foul was outside the box, there could never be a penalty an dif the foul was very professional and not violent there would be no red card as well. Hence really cynical defenders could get away with murder.
It makes sense to apply the penalty of being sent off for a professional foul outside the box and that helps the game.
It makes absolutely no sense to apply it to a foul called within the box however because the penalty kick is already an adequate punishment for such an offence. if the foul is violent then certainly give a red card. I could even understand if you add an automatic yellow card to the penalty to further punish the player but the automatic red card for a foul called in the box is overkill.
Remember I started this thread years ago....years ago, and get real fight down for it..It was only you & me on the same side of the argument. I still agree that a pro foul in the box should NOT result in a red card (unless it would be considered a red card type offense on its face) because the penalty restores the scoring opportunity that the defender is accused of preventing.
http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=4394.msg33401#msg33401
A penalty, on its face, does not necessarily restore the exact same goalscoring opportunity that a defender has prevented.
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The implementation of the red card for th elast defender in th ebox has always been one of FIFA's stupidest rules. Before the "last defender/goalscoring opportunity" red card was in effect you would have players fouling opponents with impunity outside the box a la Schumacher vs battiston in 1982.
Because the foul was outside the box, there could never be a penalty an dif the foul was very professional and not violent there would be no red card as well. Hence really cynical defenders could get away with murder.
It makes sense to apply the penalty of being sent off for a professional foul outside the box and that helps the game.
It makes absolutely no sense to apply it to a foul called within the box however because the penalty kick is already an adequate punishment for such an offence. if the foul is violent then certainly give a red card. I could even understand if you add an automatic yellow card to the penalty to further punish the player but the automatic red card for a foul called in the box is overkill.
Remember I started this thread years ago....years ago, and get real fight down for it..It was only you & me on the same side of the argument. I still agree that a pro foul in the box should NOT result in a red card (unless it would be considered a red card type offense on its face) because the penalty restores the scoring opportunity that the defender is accused of preventing.
http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=4394.msg33401#msg33401
A penalty, on its face, does not necessarily restore the exact same goalscoring opportunity that a defender has prevented.
True though i'm not sure if it matters whether or not its the "exact same"... so long as a clear goal scoring opportunity is restored.
....and yuh could also argue that being awarded a PK can make the goalscoring opportunity easier in some cases.
My understanding is that a pro foul is punished by a red card because a clear goal scoring opportunity is prevented by the perpetrator. When a PK is awarded (for a pro foul in the box), in my opinion that clear goal scoring opportunity still exists...so a red card should not be necessary.
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Not necessarily. A goalkeeper diving at the feet of an opponent is not always the same as a player tackling
another from behind. Missionary and doggie style is not the same even if yuh trow een a gouti look back. That is all about timing (and in the replays you can clearly see carrick do like most attackers do in that situation and "drag/extend" his leg, quite unnaturally, to embellish the contact.) But in that play, the so-called deviation of the ball, (a sharp 90-degree deviation) as somebody tried to bring up, was clearly because the goalkeeper had made contact with the ball and not anything else. Webb was supposed to be able to discern that. Maybe what he could not see was whether Gomes touched the ball first, or "made contact" with Carrick first.....or simultaneously. (but that is an issue that the governing bodies need to address because the rules are very unfair to the GK's, bu that is for another thread) Even so, the only thing blocking Webb's view would have been carrick's feet, plus whatever other players stood between him and the play. Yesterday's referee, given where the ball was when fletcher made his jiu-jitsu move, had his vision obscured by both players' upper bodies....plus whatever players stood between him and the play. I think Webb had an easier call to make and he blew it. The question must be asked, though, where were the respective linesmen on either of these calls? They are supposed to be called "referee's assistants" now but they are of no help whatsoever.
wow, talk about illustrating a point.. ray hudson want nutten with you.. lol
Agree with the sentiments here and JDB makes some good points with regards to flaws in the law..
Nevertheless, there is a strong element of 'EPL-ness' in the uproar and arguments from Ferguson and the english contingent.
This is Europe, not England..
The refereeing is much different in that its less accomodating for wildness, it is fairer and it encourages cleaner play..
....with that being said, teams from the EPL STILL tend to get away with levels of physicality that is a part of their games and successes that the continental teams don't get away with.
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The implementation of the red card for th elast defender in th ebox has always been one of FIFA's stupidest rules. Before the "last defender/goalscoring opportunity" red card was in effect you would have players fouling opponents with impunity outside the box a la Schumacher vs battiston in 1982.
Because the foul was outside the box, there could never be a penalty an dif the foul was very professional and not violent there would be no red card as well. Hence really cynical defenders could get away with murder.
It makes sense to apply the penalty of being sent off for a professional foul outside the box and that helps the game.
It makes absolutely no sense to apply it to a foul called within the box however because the penalty kick is already an adequate punishment for such an offence. if the foul is violent then certainly give a red card. I could even understand if you add an automatic yellow card to the penalty to further punish the player but the automatic red card for a foul called in the box is overkill.
Remember I started this thread years ago....years ago, and get real fight down for it..It was only you & me on the same side of the argument. I still agree that a pro foul in the box should NOT result in a red card (unless it would be considered a red card type offense on its face) because the penalty restores the scoring opportunity that the defender is accused of preventing.
http://www.socawarriors.net/forum/index.php?topic=4394.msg33401#msg33401
A penalty, on its face, does not necessarily restore the exact same goalscoring opportunity that a defender has prevented.
True though i'm not sure if it matters whether or not its the "exact same"... so long as a clear goal scoring opportunity is restored.
....and yuh could also argue that being awarded a PK can make the goalscoring opportunity easier in some cases.
My understanding is that a pro foul is punished by a red card because a clear goal scoring opportunity is prevented by the perpetrator. When a PK is awarded (for a pro foul in the box), in my opinion that clear goal scoring opportunity still exists...so a red card should not be necessary.
What I'm getting at is that, in many cases, the penalty itself would be more difficult that the actual goalscoring opportunity, and the arguments that could possibly follow could be never ending (especially when you compare Lehman's sending off a few finals ago to fletcher's last night) so I could imagine that FIFA/UEFA, whoever, just make certain rules clear-cut and indiscriminate. It's probably supposed to discourage rash acts and strategic fouls and leave no room for debate.
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Fletcher is class and didn't carry on with his red card cuz he know he do shit. Big players know you can't tackle from behind, even if you get ball first. How many times you see many come in studs up, get all ball and no man and still collect a yellow. It doh matter..you cna't come in studs up, you can't tackle from behind..it never matters how much ball you iwn first. Refs in England does let man get away with that. But this is Europe fellas. Rules are rules. He get the red or being the last man. Fact is, his side was up 4-0 and had 3 away goals. Just continue to put pressure on the mana nd let Van Der Saar try to handle the rest. Absolutely no need to go through the man. Man is an experienced pro. He know he do stupidness.
In all fairness I don't consider Fletcher's tackle a "tackle from behind" per se. True his body positioning technically was behind (as in not as far avanced) that of Fabregas/V. Persie (don't remember) when he made the tackle, but I think a tackle from behind has to do with where the contact was made- He didn't go through the back of the attacker to get the ball- he actually came across him and actually made clean contact with the ball before making contact with the attacker. I think the ref just didn't detect that contact that was made with the ball and if/when he watches the replay, he'd probably realize that he got that one wrong.
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In all fairness I don't consider Fletcher's tackle a "tackle from behind" per se. True his body positioning technically was behind (as in not as far avanced) that of Fabregas/V. Persie (don't remember) when he made the tackle, but I think a tackle from behind has to do with where the contact was made- He didn't go through the back of the attacker to get the ball- he actually came across him and actually made clean contact with the ball before making contact with the attacker. I think the ref just didn't detect that contact that was made with the ball and if/when he watches the replay, he'd probably realize that he got that one wrong.
Guy yuh reaching, the ref eh get nutten wrong! Fletcher barely tipped the ball. It is arguable that had he not brought down Cesc, Fabregas would still have had the advantage. Allyuh over analyzing this ting to make it seem like the ref botch the call when in fact he made the only call he's allowed to under the rule book. Do you honestly believe fletcher got enough of the ball that had he not tripped up Cesc in the process the opportunity would have been thoroughly thwarted. If there is even any doubt then yuh arguing nonsense by saying the ref got it wrong.
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Do you honestly believe fletcher got enough of the ball that had he not tripped up Cesc in the process the opportunity would have been thoroughly thwarted. If there is even any doubt then yuh arguing nonsense by saying the ref got it wrong.
Yes I believe so. The ball clearly changed direction after he touched it and would have made Fabregas' angle more difficult- you talking about tipping the ball, and what woulda happened if he wasn't tripped after contact was made with the ball yadda yadda, and then telling me I over-analyzing lol what a laugh- "enough of the ball" ...lol please... iz now you want to bring a whole other degree of subjectivity into the talk....
It eh have no overanalyzing- it's simple- As long as he played the ball first (which he did), and the tackle was not dangerous (which it wasn't) then the tackle is a good one. If the ref called him for a tug on the shoulder then fine, if the ref didn't see the contact made with the ball then ok- it happened very quickly- refs get those kinda calls wrong all the time. If it was deemed a tackle from behind, then ok- though I would dispute that because to me Fletcher was in a good position to make a fair tackle....but that "only tipping the ball" nonsense you comin' with...I eh buying that.
The replay showed it was a fair tackle...
Anyways....
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In all fairness I don't consider Fletcher's tackle a "tackle from behind" per se. True his body positioning technically was behind (as in not as far avanced) that of Fabregas/V. Persie (don't remember) when he made the tackle, but I think a tackle from behind has to do with where the contact was made- He didn't go through the back of the attacker to get the ball- he actually came across him and actually made clean contact with the ball before making contact with the attacker. I think the ref just didn't detect that contact that was made with the ball and if/when he watches the replay, he'd probably realize that he got that one wrong.
Guy yuh reaching, the ref eh get nutten wrong! Fletcher barely tipped the ball. It is arguable that had he not brought down Cesc, Fabregas would still have had the advantage. Allyuh over analyzing this ting to make it seem like the ref botch the call when in fact he made the only call he's allowed to under the rule book. Do you honestly believe fletcher got enough of the ball that had he not tripped up Cesc in the process the opportunity would have been thoroughly thwarted. If there is even any doubt then yuh arguing nonsense by saying the ref got it wrong.
fletcher stil had his arm around cesc, that alone is a penalty, any foul on an attacking player in the penalty is a penalty kick
last man and goal scoring opportunity, inside or outside the area is a sending off, harsh but the full measure of the law.
however the referee number one job is to maintain the integrity of the game
i feel the card was harsh and coul dhave used his disgression
but the referee did not go beyond his powers
and for those who listen to tomy smith on espn are on drugs that irish twat dunno half of what he spews out
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Do you honestly believe fletcher got enough of the ball that had he not tripped up Cesc in the process the opportunity would have been thoroughly thwarted. If there is even any doubt then yuh arguing nonsense by saying the ref got it wrong.
Yes I believe so. The ball clearly changed direction after he touched it and would have made Fabregas' angle more difficult- you talking about tipping the ball, and what woulda happened if he wasn't tripped after contact was made with the ball yadda yadda, and then telling me I over-analyzing lol what a laugh- "enough of the ball" ...lol please... iz now you want to bring a whole other degree of subjectivity into the talk....
It eh have no overanalyzing- it's simple- As long as he played the ball first (which he did), and the tackle was not dangerous (which it wasn't) then the tackle is a good one. If the ref called him for a tug on the shoulder then fine, if the ref didn't see the contact made with the ball then ok- it happened very quickly- refs get those kinda calls wrong all the time. If it was deemed a tackle from behind, then ok- though I would dispute that because to me Fletcher was in a good position to make a fair tackle....but that "only tipping the ball" nonsense you comin' with...I eh buying that.
The replay showed it was a fair tackle...
Anyways....
So....as long as a man "play the ball FIRST" any kinda tackle is fair game then? Yuh could go "through" a man, clip he legs, break he shin, (as long as it eh dangerous) anyting? And even so, a foul have to be dangerous to be a foul? Nah, Kicker, you cyah be serious on dat one.
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Yuh could go "through" a man, clip he legs, break he shin, (as long as it eh dangerous) anyting? And even so, a foul have to be dangerous to be a foul? Nah, Kicker, you cyah be serious on dat one.
clearly, a tackle that could potentially break someone's shin would count as dangerous. the two of you disagree about whether he went "through" the man or not. I think this line of Kicker's already answered the question.
it's simple- As long as he played the ball first (which he did), and the tackle was not dangerous (which it wasn't) then the tackle is a good one.
It's not that a tackle have to be dangerous to be a foul, but it have to meet at least one of the two criteria.
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Yuh could go "through" a man, clip he legs, break he shin, (as long as it eh dangerous) anyting? And even so, a foul have to be dangerous to be a foul? Nah, Kicker, you cyah be serious on dat one.
clearly, a tackle that could potentially break someone's shin would count as dangerous. the two of you disagree about whether he went "through" the man or not. I think this line of Kicker's already answered the question.
it's simple- As long as he played the ball first (which he did), and the tackle was not dangerous (which it wasn't) then the tackle is a good one.
It's not that a tackle have to be dangerous to be a foul, but it have to meet at least one of the two criteria.
I was being facetious when I begged that question, daryn. The problem is, even IF you want to give fletcher credit for playing the ball first, you cannot ignore the follow-through with his trail leg that impeded fabregas' progress. fletcher didn't exactly play the ball out of fabregas' reach, did he?