Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: palos on June 11, 2009, 04:16:19 PM
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POSITIVES:
1 - More flow in attack. Actually, check dat. Jes say flow in attack because there wasn't no flow before.
2 - A more compact & energetic midfield in general. The midfield is at least trying to deny the opposition space and time when they have the ball. This was much more evident in Tobago than in the Azteca, but still a noticeable and positive difference.
3 - Our wing back deficiencies have slightly improved but it's still an improvement. We still leak holes due to lack of midfield support but it's not as glaring as before.
4 - We're a little fitter in general but still way short of what is required at this level, which is why we BUN so much in the latter part of our matches.
5 - The "new" additions Tinto and Noel have been welcome "surprises". Noel's workrate and overall ability compensates for Yorke's immobility and allows Yorke to play a bit more of the game at his pace...at least initially. Tinto provides another "Cornell Glen" type option to the frontline. Something that was markedly lacking before. Speed and some dribbling ability and as yesterday showed....a pretty decent finish too.
6 - Taking a makeshift team (with all the injuries & suspensions) into the Azteca and ending up with a 2-1 loss shows the coach has some luck and ability on his side. We were thoroughly outplayed, the Mexican's threw away a host of chances, we could have lost 5-1, but we did fight. Kudos to coach and team. Historically, a loss by 6 goals would not have been out of the question.
NEGATIVES:
1 - Our Central defence has regressed. Terribly.
2 - Our defensive discipline overall has also taken a backward step (if that were at all possible)
3 - Our much vaunted strike force can't score. Not necessarily Latas' fault as they haven't scored all Hex but that's a BIG PROBLEM. We supposed to be "deep" in the striking department.
4 - Questionable substitution choices. Taking off Spann and leaving on Yorke in Tobago. Leaving 37 year old Yorke on whole game in the Azteca.
Overall, an improvement in team play and a regression in defence. The result, 2 losses in 2 games. Coach Latapy has done a lot in a short space of time. The man obviously has something but while it's one thing to want T&T to play a certain way...and I am one of those that believe that if you play good football, you'll probably win more than you lose over time.....the game at this level is about results.
Encouraging signs for sure but as injunchile say...honeymoon over. Time fuh results.
My grade....a solid B for Coach Latapy. B fuh Bly.....fuh now.
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ways we agree on something
cosign (copyright weary)
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POSITIVES:
1 - More flow in attack. Actually, check dat. Jes say flow in attack because there wasn't no flow before.
2 - A more compact & energetic midfield in general. The midfield is at least trying to deny the opposition space and time when they have the ball. This was much more evident in Tobago than in the Azteca, but still a noticeable and positive difference.
3 - Our wing back deficiencies have slightly improved but it's still an improvement. We still leak holes due to lack of midfield support but it's not as glaring as before.
4 - We're a little fitter in general but still way short of what is required at this level, which is why we BUN so much in the latter part of our matches.
5 - The "new" additions Tinto and Noel have been welcome "surprises". Noel's workrate and overall ability compensates for Yorke's immobility and allows Yorke to play a bit more of the game at his pace...at least initially. Tinto provides another "Cornell Glen" type option to the frontline. Something that was markedly lacking before. Speed and some dribbling ability and as yesterday showed....a pretty decent finish too.
6 - Taking a makeshift team (with all the injuries & suspensions) into the Azteca and ending up with a 2-1 loss shows the coach has some luck and ability on his side. We were thoroughly outplayed, the Mexican's threw away a host of chances, we could have lost 5-1, but we did fight. Kudos to coach and team. Historically, a loss by 6 goals would not have been out of the question.
NEGATIVES:
1 - Our Central defence has regressed. Terribly.
2 - Our defensive discipline overall has also taken a backward step (if that were at all possible)
3 - Our much vaunted strike force can't score. Not necessarily Latas' fault as they haven't scored all Hex but that's a BIG PROBLEM. We supposed to be "deep" in the striking department.
4 - Questionable substitution choices. Taking off Spann and leaving on Yorke in Tobago. Leaving 37 year old Yorke on whole game in the Azteca.
Overall, an improvement in team play and a regression in defence. The result, 2 losses in 2 games. Coach Latapy has done a lot in a short space of time. The man obviously has something but while it's one thing to want T&T to play a certain way...and I am one of those that believe that if you play good football, you'll probably win more than you lose over time.....the game at this level is about results.
Encouraging signs for sure but as injunchile say...honeymoon over. Time fuh results.
My grade....a solid B for Coach Latapy. B fuh Bly.....fuh now.
Palos u generous dat coach grade is a C by international standards, C+ at best.
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One more thing Latas need to suit up.
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Hope them keep him long term and give him time to build on the foundation he setting...we does change coaches too often... Have we ever had a coach for more than one WC campaign?
Latas i hope dem keep u on boy..
Good assessment
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:thumbsup: Freedom to express ourselves on offense
:thumbsup: Individual flashes of 1v1 prowess
:thumbsup: Boss finish by Tinto
:thumbsdown: Lack of real pressure, cover and balance (marking, tracking back) in our defensive third
:thumbsdown: Lack of support or movement when central midfielders were in possesion resulting in negagtive passes, lost possession or boom kick
:thumbsdown: 1 or 2 out 4 defenders pulling "offside trap" letting strikers run free
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idk why this man on friend thing and playing Yorke 90 mins all the time. Yorke jogging after 20 mins, not sprinting. he burned out. Should sub yorke instead on Kenwyne last night
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This T & T team needs to discover the word "spontaneity" aka creativity.
Guys rediscover the part of youir foot called " the heel". I have seen nothing
atypical by any of the midfielders and strikers. Too conventional, so unlike the Trini personality.
Coach, have the team liming under the goal in the penalty area-- have a picnic there. They need to overcome the stigma of the goal area. They are simply not comfortable ( scared?)under the shadow of the goal.
... and still...
One more thing Latas need to suit up.
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Right Palos now we on the same page....for a while there ah thought yuh wanted Maturana to come back... :devil: ;D
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I give Latas a B or B+. We played a very confident Costa Rica and did not play bad. Played Mex at home and only conceded 2 goals and scored 1. Mata screwed us over, he is still responsible for those losses. As far as I am concerned Latas is doing a superb job. If Mata was still running the team I doubt we would have scored in any of the games. Big up Latas!
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I give Latas a B or B+. We played a very confident Costa Rica and did not play bad. Played Mex at home and only conceded 2 goals and scored 1. Mata screwed us over, he is still responsible for those losses. As far as I am concerned Latas is doing a superb job. If Mata was still running the team I doubt we would have scored in any of the games. Big up Latas!
umm...the facts seem to suggest otherwise eh..the only WCQ games Maturana teams din score in was the two US games away and guatemala away wid 10 men..
Latapy gets a C...for now..too early to really judge his performance..let the man work with the team for a five games before we really start doing this...
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once defence gels,de warriors will progress.latas is ah definite plus.
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Thats a fair assessment Palos even though I think the grade of B is a little easy. A B- more like it but he need at least 3 more games for a proper assessment to be made. Them first two games would have always been a pull stones, even for a 'big name' coach who get this team for the same amount of time. Lets see if he wins the games he should and uses that as a springboard.
I don't think a 40 year old Latapy should suit up for us. If a 37 year old Yorke cyah make then a 40 year old, cigarette smoking Latapy will just burn another sub halfway through. Blood or groom a successor but lewwe enjoy Latas previous magic on the field and let the man get a good start on this stage of his career.
If anything, even if we qualify for this cup, we need to start playing and thinking for Brazil.
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idk why this man on friend thing and playing Yorke 90 mins all the time. Yorke jogging after 20 mins, not sprinting. he burned out. Should sub yorke instead on Kenwyne last night
well baba, if dat is your logic, d whole damn team shouda get subbed becauses every body was bun and joggin after a while. an be truthful nah... yorke started to fade from about d sixtieth minute not so early as u suggesting.
IMHO, i feel latas deserve a B+. jus for bringing out a significant change in dis team that is a mixture of inexperience an old men.
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True. Cant grade him after two matches. The home game against El Sal is and away game to Honduras will be his true test. Need 6 points nothing less than 4.
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Positives: No Aklie Edwards
Negatives: No Latas
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Latapy has surprised me by showing good tactical awareness. He really hasn't been "out-coached", so to speak. We have lost games more as a result of mental lapses and basic errors. We seem to be more willing to build out of the back, and I thought our midfielders are looking better receiving the ball from out the back with their back against the opposing defence. Our front players are applying more pressure higher up the field in spurts, and that is a welcomed sign, and I think we are playing a bit faster....Still a lot of work to do, but Latapy doesn't seem to be intimidated by facing supposedly more experienced coaches, and that is good.
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and why ma boy Collin Samuel aint get no burn too?
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idk why this man on friend thing and playing Yorke 90 mins all the time. Yorke jogging after 20 mins, not sprinting. he burned out. Should sub yorke instead on Kenwyne last night
hmm well that means that Jones wasnt suppose to on d team either cuz he was walking.and yorke have like 10+ years on him... hmmm
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idk why this man on friend thing and playing Yorke 90 mins all the time. Yorke jogging after 20 mins, not sprinting. he burned out. Should sub yorke instead on Kenwyne last night
well baba, if dat is your logic, d whole damn team shouda get subbed becauses every body was bun and joggin after a while. an be truthful nah... yorke started to fade from about d sixtieth minute not so early as u suggesting.
IMHO, i feel latas deserve a B+. jus for bringing out a significant change in dis team that is a mixture of inexperience an old men.
man, even Sunderland coach know Yorke cant be running for 90 mins. You cant be jogging back to help in defence when the mexicans sprinting at u are the defensive midfielder. You didnt see Ince tired buffing him about that too. and jogging wih tinto and edwards and the rest sprinting on the counter attack, that leads to end up depending on the long ball when timing off rather than higher percent completed short passes.
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idk why this man on friend thing and playing Yorke 90 mins all the time. Yorke jogging after 20 mins, not sprinting. he burned out. Should sub yorke instead on Kenwyne last night
i think the fact that KJ also jogging after 20 mins confusing his brain :devil:
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keep going Gaffer
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keep going Gaffer
ditto
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idk why this man on friend thing and playing Yorke 90 mins all the time. Yorke jogging after 20 mins, not sprinting. he burned out. Should sub yorke instead on Kenwyne last night
well baba, if dat is your logic, d whole damn team shouda get subbed becauses every body was bun and joggin after a while. an be truthful nah... yorke started to fade from about d sixtieth minute not so early as u suggesting.
IMHO, i feel latas deserve a B+. jus for bringing out a significant change in dis team that is a mixture of inexperience an old men.
I agree warriorqueen, cosign!
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d problem is who else can have dat calmin influence on d team, if yorke wasn't on d field in mexico, we would have gotten dat 7 or 8, so my ting is we have to find someone to do just dat, dem two embarassin US games is proof, and ah will say it again, is not carlos, he ah lil to caught up in heself for dat role, d freekick in mexico provide enough evdence to confirm dat to me.
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I think the main problem with us is that the young players not stepping up to the pitch . They not going in search of the ball they only playing when they get the ball and that's why Yorke so vital because when the team under fire they will stand around and watch rather than showing initiative to win the ball and start the play they waiting for some one else to do it...in short our young players have no balls....they're cowards .... if yorke eh do it they'll all stand around watching..... on our team ill let you know the players who try to make things happen and observe their attitudes as players.....
Yorke , Carlos , Lawrence, glen, stern, birchy, Avery, Ince, latas when he played obviously i guess since he under fire but he does be bawling at them boy ass to lift they level everyone else just stand around waiting..... until them boy stop being afraid to play and take a risk we going no where we already losing so why can't we learn to take the game by the scruff of the neck. We play to hold on to a draw not to win....defensively we just chyase to clear the ball when we should be chasing you to dominate you win the ball and restart our attack rather than just kick it out for a throw ....shittttt
Our team is a bunch of cowards.....
Jamaica will never be close to our team in terms of talent but they tell they self we not going out like that ah bloodclart and individually they say aint no bloodclart small man going to dominate us....i have to give them props for that ....... Kenwyn used to fight like that and now he playing like a primadonna ..leave he ras in sunderland and do call him back is best we call back he uncle Philbert Jones to show him how its done.
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Latas...when is our next friendly game?
We have to be ready for El Salvador.
Thanks in advance.
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jack run tings
jack run tings
ah good for ah next week now
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How could he get ah B and after we play 2 games and lost both? I agree we playing better but latas eh get no B as yet. I would give him a C+ or B-.
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6 pts lost......by academic judgement you get an F
Rooms for improvement.....Defense Defense Defense.....
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I would give him a B..
I give him some extra credit on his final grade for being Latas.
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This is WCQ if you cannoy grade the coach after two games, when will you grade him, this is not a league. Also, if we cannot grade the coach after two games, how can we grade players who only had two game?
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6 pts lost......by academic judgement you get an F
Rooms for improvement.....Defense Defense Defense.....
you have to do more thn that tho. His grade should take into account the time he has had to prepare the team and who we played. I don't think we've ever beaten CR in a WC qualifier. the best we've done is drawn at home. And we were never taking anything away from the Azteca. Latas has taken 0 points from games where we historically (recent histor) only take 1 at best.
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The disadvantage here is not knowing what his expressed plan was going in to the game, but we have some clues based on what was displayed on the field. That stated, to be fair to him, we would have to hold him not liable for any departures from the plan by any individual players ... although, presumably, this could be addressed by a policy of brisk substitution.
Where do tactical considerations end, and technical limitations begin? No need to inquire as to fitness because we know where we stand with that. Match after match, regardless of who is in charge, what I have seen is tentative play. Is it time to inquire whether this is cultural?
He gets a definite 3 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: The 4th would be a gift. However, a consideration: didn't he assume the role with at least 3 thumbs-up?
I think we're getting what's been paid for. Wish we could pay for time and timing.
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Wow...still amazed at a coach with 2 defeats in 2 WCQ matches...one being at home (ok so the other was in the Azteca...but against the worst Mexican team in years) can get a B or even a B+ from the football gurus out there.....I am willing to wager in any other serious footballing nation the assessments would not be so generous.
my grade for him: C-
IMHO...goal scoring was never our real problem...reference us scoring in everyone of our last 15 internationals with the exception of the US game in the US. To his credit he did give Tinto his chance and thus far this has proven to be a good decision.
Midfield... the team tries to at least keep its shape for longer periods in the game than before...I will attribute that to Latas. With that one step forward he takes one back with keeping Yorke on the field for 90 mins when he clearly cannot last the distance...and for God's sake don't even think about starting without Birchall if Yorke is also in midfield.
Defense...It may still be early days yet, but the stats will show 5 goals conceded in 2 games...and if we are honest with ourselves we were fortunate not to concede more in Mexico (big up Ince). We seemed to have gone backwards in this department (individual mistakes or not).
Tactically...I beg to differ with those saying he has not been out coached. Costa Rica came with a game plan...executed...and we never really seemed to adjust. How many times did they try to exploit our right side of the field and nearly succeed before they eventually did...a coach does not have to wait until half time to make adjustments on the field. Against Mexico every serious attack seemed to be going through Blanco...what adjustments were made there.
Substitutions...I think we have beaten that dead horse.
No warm up games....no comment
I still think Latas is the right coach but at the wrong time for us...if we seriously wanted to salvage this campaign post Maturana..we needed someone with experience in grinding out results...ugly or not. I would have loved to see Latas at the helm at the very start of a WCQ campaign when he would have had more time...let's see if the powers that be stick it out with him..sink or swim.
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Wow...still amazed at a coach with 2 defeats in 2 WCQ matches...one being at home (ok so the other was in the Azteca...but against the worst Mexican team in years) can get a B or even a B+ from the football gurus out there.....I am willing to wager in any other serious footballing nation the assessments would not be so generous.
"Any other serious footballing nation" hasn't had to watch their team lose to Bermuda and Grenada under a so-called "legendary" coach, and also lose a lot of credibility since the last World Cup. I'm pretty sure we're just happy to see some positive change with our Senior team, that's all.
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Wow...still amazed at a coach with 2 defeats in 2 WCQ matches...one being at home (ok so the other was in the Azteca...but against the worst Mexican team in years) can get a B or even a B+ from the football gurus out there.....I am willing to wager in any other serious footballing nation the assessments would not be so generous.
my grade for him: C-
IMHO...goal scoring was never our real problem...reference us scoring in everyone of our last 15 internationals with the exception of the US game in the US. To his credit he did give Tinto his chance and thus far this has proven to be a good decision.
Midfield... the team tries to at least keep its shape for longer periods in the game than before...I will attribute that to Latas. With that one step forward he takes one back with keeping Yorke on the field for 90 mins when he clearly cannot last the distance...and for God's sake don't even think about starting without Birchall if Yorke is also in midfield.
Defense...It may still be early days yet, but the stats will show 5 goals conceded in 2 games...and if we are honest with ourselves we were fortunate not to concede more in Mexico (big up Ince). We seemed to have gone backwards in this department (individual mistakes or not).
Tactically...I beg to differ with those saying he has not been out coached. Costa Rica came with a game plan...executed...and we never really seemed to adjust. How many times did they try to exploit our right side of the field and nearly succeed before they eventually did...a coach does not have to wait until half time to make adjustments on the field. Against Mexico every serious attack seemed to be going through Blanco...what adjustments were made there.
Substitutions...I think we have beaten that dead horse.
No warm up games....no comment
I still think Latas is the right coach but at the wrong time for us...if we seriously wanted to salvage this campaign post Maturana..we needed someone with experience in grinding out results...ugly or not. I would have loved to see Latas at the helm at the very start of a WCQ campaign when he would have had more time...let's see if the powers that be stick it out with him..sink or swim.
Good post.
I think the mix up is that people are grading the progress- not grading the actual coach/level of coaching. There's a difference.... A C- coach could be taking over from a D- coach (not necessarily saying that was the case) and hence look like a B+ coach...
There is also a serious bias when it comes to Latapy- yuh have to understand he is a footballing icon and will be given alot more rope to hang himself than others (esp non Trinis).
I think Latapy has injected a little more energy and unity into our football, and I think that's the difference that we're seeing. I think players are working a little harder for eachother since he came on board- and that's about it (I don't underestimate the effect of that added energy and unity). There are one or two personnel changes that you could argue have also made a difference- whether yuh call that coaching or mere player selection, it all falls under the umbrella of Latapy so yuh have to give him the credit....
On the whole though the level of our football is still currently sub par, even in our region- we're still making too many unforced errors and the collective intensity of movement still leaves alot to be desired.
The one thing about improvement however is that it's always assumed to be continuous- so the little improvement that we're seeing here...people (including myself) are optimistically hoping its trajectory continues...and with that there is a little more hope. Whether or not Latapy deserves a B rating aside, I think people are grading what appears to be potential based on small improvements in a short space of time and the degree to which the small improvements give us (as fans) slighty better hope that we'll do ourselves proud in the last few matches of this campaign....
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Wow...still amazed at a coach with 2 defeats in 2 WCQ matches...one being at home (ok so the other was in the Azteca...but against the worst Mexican team in years) can get a B or even a B+ from the football gurus out there.....I am willing to wager in any other serious footballing nation the assessments would not be so generous.
my grade for him: C-
IMHO...goal scoring was never our real problem...reference us scoring in everyone of our last 15 internationals with the exception of the US game in the US. To his credit he did give Tinto his chance and thus far this has proven to be a good decision.
Midfield... the team tries to at least keep its shape for longer periods in the game than before...I will attribute that to Latas. With that one step forward he takes one back with keeping Yorke on the field for 90 mins when he clearly cannot last the distance...and for God's sake don't even think about starting without Birchall if Yorke is also in midfield.
Defense...It may still be early days yet, but the stats will show 5 goals conceded in 2 games...and if we are honest with ourselves we were fortunate not to concede more in Mexico (big up Ince). We seemed to have gone backwards in this department (individual mistakes or not).
Tactically...I beg to differ with those saying he has not been out coached. Costa Rica came with a game plan...executed...and we never really seemed to adjust. How many times did they try to exploit our right side of the field and nearly succeed before they eventually did...a coach does not have to wait until half time to make adjustments on the field. Against Mexico every serious attack seemed to be going through Blanco...what adjustments were made there.
Substitutions...I think we have beaten that dead horse.
No warm up games....no comment
I still think Latas is the right coach but at the wrong time for us...if we seriously wanted to salvage this campaign post Maturana..we needed someone with experience in grinding out results...ugly or not. I would have loved to see Latas at the helm at the very start of a WCQ campaign when he would have had more time...let's see if the powers that be stick it out with him..sink or swim.
Good post.
I think the mix up is that people are grading the progress- not grading the actual coach/level of coaching. There's a difference.... A C- coach could be taking over from a D- coach (not necessarily saying that was the case) and hence look like a B+ coach...
There is also a serious bias when it comes to Latapy- yuh have to understand he is a footballing icon and will be given alot more rope to hang himself than others (esp non Trinis).
I think Latapy has injected a little more energy and unity into our football, and I think that's the difference that we're seeing. I think players are working a little harder for eachother since he came on board- and that's about it (I don't underestimate the effect of that added energy and unity). There are one or two personnel changes that you could argue have also made a difference- whether yuh call that coaching or mere player selection, it all falls under the umbrella of Latapy so yuh have to give him the credit....
On the whole though the level of our football is still currently sub par, even in our region- we're still making too many unforced errors and the collective intensity of movement still leaves alot to be desired.
The one thing about improvement however is that it's always assumed to be continuous- so the little improvement that we're seeing here...people (including myself) are optimistically hoping its trajectory continues...and with that there is a little more hope. Whether or not Latapy deserves a B rating aside, I think people are grading what appears to be potential based on small improvements in a short space of time and the degree to which the small improvements give us (as fans) slighty better hope that do ourselves proud in the last few matches of this campaign....
Well said Dark Heart! ;D
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Wow...still amazed at a coach with 2 defeats in 2 WCQ matches...one being at home (ok so the other was in the Azteca...but against the worst Mexican team in years) can get a B or even a B+ from the football gurus out there.....I am willing to wager in any other serious footballing nation the assessments would not be so generous.
my grade for him: C-
IMHO...goal scoring was never our real problem...reference us scoring in everyone of our last 15 internationals with the exception of the US game in the US. To his credit he did give Tinto his chance and thus far this has proven to be a good decision.
Midfield... the team tries to at least keep its shape for longer periods in the game than before...I will attribute that to Latas. With that one step forward he takes one back with keeping Yorke on the field for 90 mins when he clearly cannot last the distance...and for God's sake don't even think about starting without Birchall if Yorke is also in midfield.
Defense...It may still be early days yet, but the stats will show 5 goals conceded in 2 games...and if we are honest with ourselves we were fortunate not to concede more in Mexico (big up Ince). We seemed to have gone backwards in this department (individual mistakes or not).
Tactically...I beg to differ with those saying he has not been out coached. Costa Rica came with a game plan...executed...and we never really seemed to adjust. How many times did they try to exploit our right side of the field and nearly succeed before they eventually did...a coach does not have to wait until half time to make adjustments on the field. Against Mexico every serious attack seemed to be going through Blanco...what adjustments were made there.
Substitutions...I think we have beaten that dead horse.
No warm up games....no comment
I still think Latas is the right coach but at the wrong time for us...if we seriously wanted to salvage this campaign post Maturana..we needed someone with experience in grinding out results...ugly or not. I would have loved to see Latas at the helm at the very start of a WCQ campaign when he would have had more time...let's see if the powers that be stick it out with him..sink or swim.
Good post.
I think the mix up is that people are grading the progress- not grading the actual coach/level of coaching. There's a difference.... A C- coach could be taking over from a D- coach (not necessarily saying that was the case) and hence look like a B+ coach...
There is also a serious bias when it comes to Latapy- yuh have to understand he is a footballing icon and will be given alot more rope to hang himself than others (esp non Trinis).
I think Latapy has injected a little more energy and unity into our football, and I think that's the difference that we're seeing. I think players are working a little harder for eachother since he came on board- and that's about it (I don't underestimate the effect of that added energy and unity). There are one or two personnel changes that you could argue have also made a difference- whether yuh call that coaching or mere player selection, it all falls under the umbrella of Latapy so yuh have to give him the credit....
On the whole though the level of our football is still currently sub par, even in our region- we're still making too many unforced errors and the collective intensity of movement still leaves alot to be desired.
The one thing about improvement however is that it's always assumed to be continuous- so the little improvement that we're seeing here...people (including myself) are optimistically hoping its trajectory continues...and with that there is a little more hope. Whether or not Latapy deserves a B rating aside, I think people are grading what appears to be potential based on small improvements in a short space of time and the degree to which the small improvements give us (as fans) slighty better hope that do ourselves proud in the last few matches of this campaign....
Well said Dark Heart! ;D
:rotfl: :rotfl:
kicker, u know that is youur new name now right?
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I think the mix up is that people are grading the progress- not grading the actual coach/level of coaching. There's a difference.... A C- coach could be taking over from a D- coach (not necessarily saying that was the case) and hence look like a B+ coach...
I think Latapy has injected a little more energy and unity into our football, and I think that's the difference that we're seeing. I think players are working a little harder for eachother since he came on board- and that's about it (I don't underestimate the effect of that added energy and unity).
On the whole though the level of our football is still currently sub par, even in our region- we're still making too many unforced errors and the collective intensity of movement still leaves alot to be desired.
The one thing about improvement however is that it's always assumed to be continuous- so the little improvement that we're seeing here...people (including myself) are optimistically hoping its trajectory continues...and with that there is a little more hope. Whether or not Latapy deserves a B rating aside, I think people are grading what appears to be potential based on small improvements in a short space of time and the degree to which the small improvements give us (as fans) slighty better hope that do ourselves proud in the last few matches of this campaign....
....and that's all I have to say about that. (copyright Forest Gump)
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I gave him a B for the following reasons
Improved overall play
Quality and strength of the opposition
Playing in the Azteca and the RESULT (if not so much the performance)
The fact that T&T was missing Lawrence, Avery John, Cornell Glen, & Jason Scotland (3 starters and a sub) for the game against Mexico IN DE AZTECA and had to be replaced by players among whom 2 had never before represented T&T at this level. Those players could not have asked for a more intimidating venue to make their debuts.
It have nutting to do with Latas being my favourite balla of all time. It have everyting to do with the job he's done in a relatively short space of time as well as the circumstances he found himself in and how the team responded despite the RESULTS.
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Wow...still amazed at a coach with 2 defeats in 2 WCQ matches...one being at home (ok so the other was in the Azteca...but against the worst Mexican team in years) can get a B or even a B+ from the football gurus out there.....I am willing to wager in any other serious footballing nation the assessments would not be so generous.
my grade for him: C-
IMHO...goal scoring was never our real problem...reference us scoring in everyone of our last 15 internationals with the exception of the US game in the US. To his credit he did give Tinto his chance and thus far this has proven to be a good decision.
Midfield... the team tries to at least keep its shape for longer periods in the game than before...I will attribute that to Latas. With that one step forward he takes one back with keeping Yorke on the field for 90 mins when he clearly cannot last the distance...and for God's sake don't even think about starting without Birchall if Yorke is also in midfield.
Defense...It may still be early days yet, but the stats will show 5 goals conceded in 2 games...and if we are honest with ourselves we were fortunate not to concede more in Mexico (big up Ince). We seemed to have gone backwards in this department (individual mistakes or not).
Tactically...I beg to differ with those saying he has not been out coached. Costa Rica came with a game plan...executed...and we never really seemed to adjust. How many times did they try to exploit our right side of the field and nearly succeed before they eventually did...a coach does not have to wait until half time to make adjustments on the field. Against Mexico every serious attack seemed to be going through Blanco...what adjustments were made there.
Substitutions...I think we have beaten that dead horse.
No warm up games....no comment
I still think Latas is the right coach but at the wrong time for us...if we seriously wanted to salvage this campaign post Maturana..we needed someone with experience in grinding out results...ugly or not. I would have loved to see Latas at the helm at the very start of a WCQ campaign when he would have had more time...let's see if the powers that be stick it out with him..sink or swim.
Good post.
I think the mix up is that people are grading the progress- not grading the actual coach/level of coaching. There's a difference.... A C- coach could be taking over from a D- coach (not necessarily saying that was the case) and hence look like a B+ coach...
There is also a serious bias when it comes to Latapy- yuh have to understand he is a footballing icon and will be given alot more rope to hang himself than others (esp non Trinis).
I think Latapy has injected a little more energy and unity into our football, and I think that's the difference that we're seeing. I think players are working a little harder for eachother since he came on board- and that's about it (I don't underestimate the effect of that added energy and unity). There are one or two personnel changes that you could argue have also made a difference- whether yuh call that coaching or mere player selection, it all falls under the umbrella of Latapy so yuh have to give him the credit....
On the whole though the level of our football is still currently sub par, even in our region- we're still making too many unforced errors and the collective intensity of movement still leaves alot to be desired.
The one thing about improvement however is that it's always assumed to be continuous- so the little improvement that we're seeing here...people (including myself) are optimistically hoping its trajectory continues...and with that there is a little more hope. Whether or not Latapy deserves a B rating aside, I think people are grading what appears to be potential based on small improvements in a short space of time and the degree to which the small improvements give us (as fans) slighty better hope that do ourselves proud in the last few matches of this campaign....
Well said Dark Heart! ;D
:rotfl: :rotfl:
kicker, u know that is youur new name now right?
:rotfl:
hoss ah cyah fight it...meh heart dark- those were cards I was dealt.... ;D
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B for his efforts, C for his results. He is very brave and patriotic to to take on a difficult and thankless task like this. Right man wrong time for this job.
The coach's job is to put the team in the best possible position to win or, at least, steal points
He can accomplish this through:
Player selection
The issues here are obvious. The pool of decent level players with a record of moderate success at CONCACAF level is very small
Physical preparation
He can make sure he selects fit players but fitness is a player and his club's responsibility
Tactical instruction
Being knowledgeable and having the ability to effectively communicate the knowledge and have the team produce his vision of football consistently in games is a must. If the players don't come to him having developed senior level tactical awareness through their careers, he can't work miracles in 2 months or 12 at this level.
Game planning
Go for broke or be economical and minimize potential damage inflicted by opponent? 1 is for the fans the other to keep his job
In game substitution and tactical adjustments
Player pool depth and player tactical awareness are constraining factors
Strategic Planning
Should start during the world cup years and run in 4 year cycles. To pick up a team 1 year before a World Cup is admirable but no mid level team would be able to turn around a losing situation without luck and help form other teams
Player Development
Not the coaches' primary job but a contributing factor to his success. If the pipeline of Pro League, U17, U20 , and U23 players is not producing international quality players from a technical, fitness and tactical awareness standpoint, the national coach will be stuck doing remedial work instead of implementing a strategic plan geared towards winning in CONCACAF
Inspiring and Motivating
This shouldn't be a major factor at this level. If he needs to do that then he has players who aren't ready.
Public Relations
Keeping the public behind the team regardless of results. So far so good but you only get a "new coach" pass for but so long.
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some ah allyuh grading on a curve.... has he taken us any step closer to South Africa? That's the only question that needs to be answered!!!!!!!
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some ah allyuh grading on a curve.... has he taken us any step closer to South Africa? That's the only question that needs to be answered!!!!!!!
need to include some intangibles when Latas got the team during the middle of the campaign. grading on a curve kinda justified. come like taking a man score on a test at face value when you didn't give him any time to study.
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Latas...when is our next friendly game?
We have to be ready for El Salvador.
Thanks in advance.
Touches you want the man grade to drop or what, why you asking hard questions?
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Here what Latas need to do with the defenders.
Take a page from Micky Rat book. In training Micky Rat use to tell Arab. Do yuh best and try to clean me up, stop meh anyway yuh can. Well training use to go like this, Arab pelting blade like is crop season in Caroni. And Micky Rat trying to get away like some body say police. ;D
So put dem defenders in front the goal. Latas he self take the ball and say stop meh. Do like in dem Kung Fu movie make dem do it till dey bun. And when they bun let dem know is now training start. Stop Tinto, Stop Edwards. Every time they get beat and a goal score dem defenders have to buy Latas ah drink ;D
Leh we home Latas eh get too drunk ;D
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Some of you guys way harsh or confused. If the team plays badly and draw we vex, the team has shown considerable improvement in their game play against strong opponents (and a traditionally bad away venue) and lost and we still vex.
The coach is still just the coach. He can do so much, after that the players have to do their part. The fact that he's done what he has with this team in such a short period of time I think is a good thing. We are not a WC team traditionally, we qualified against the odds last time. We have to accept that we are a fairly ordinary football team and be realistic in our efforts.
I'd say a B is a reasonable grade of the coach after these two matches. We've not seen anything like what the team has done in the past 2 matches in all the time Maturana had the team. How can we not give him a good grade? Obviously we are playing a results game, but do we really think we were on course to take any points off of Costa Rica or Mexico before? We still didn't get the points, but we dominated Costa Rica for a long parts of the game and nearly frustrated Mexico into a draw. It took a fantastic strike for them to get the 3 points. We can say what we want about this being the worst Mexican team ever (which probably is not true) we've always conceeded a heap of goals when we play in the Azteca.
If we're really honest with ourselves we'll accept that qualifying for South Africa is a bonus and look at this as a chance to develop a team and a coach all in one effort. That being said we still have a chance at a least 4th place.
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Some of you guys way harsh or confused. If the team plays badly and draw we vex, the team has shown considerable improvement in their game play against strong opponents (and a traditionally bad away venue) and lost and we still vex.
The coach is still just the coach. He can do so much, after that the players have to do their part. The fact that he's done what he has with this team in such a short period of time I think is a good thing. We are not a WC team traditionally, we qualified against the odds last time. We have to accept that we are a fairly ordinary football team and be realistic in our efforts.
I'd say a B is a reasonable grade of the coach after these two matches. We've not seen anything like what the team has done in the past 2 matches in all the time Maturana had the team. How can we not give him a good grade? Obviously we are playing a results game, but do we really think we were on course to take any points off of Costa Rica or Mexico before? We still didn't get the points, but we dominated Costa Rica for a long parts of the game and nearly frustrated Mexico into a draw. It took a fantastic strike for them to get the 3 points. We can say what we want about this being the worst Mexican team ever (which probably is not true) we've always conceeded a heap of goals when we play in the Azteca.
If we're really honest with ourselves we'll accept that qualifying for South Africa is a bonus and look at this as a chance to develop a team and a coach all in one effort. That being said we still have a chance at a least 4th place.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :beermug:
I still confused about d bad reactions on here to d mexico game
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Some of you guys way harsh or confused. If the team plays badly and draw we vex, the team has shown considerable improvement in their game play against strong opponents (and a traditionally bad away venue) and lost and we still vex.
The coach is still just the coach. He can do so much, after that the players have to do their part. The fact that he's done what he has with this team in such a short period of time I think is a good thing. We are not a WC team traditionally, we qualified against the odds last time. We have to accept that we are a fairly ordinary football team and be realistic in our efforts.
I'd say a B is a reasonable grade of the coach after these two matches. We've not seen anything like what the team has done in the past 2 matches in all the time Maturana had the team. How can we not give him a good grade? Obviously we are playing a results game, but do we really think we were on course to take any points off of Costa Rica or Mexico before? We still didn't get the points, but we dominated Costa Rica for a long parts of the game and nearly frustrated Mexico into a draw. It took a fantastic strike for them to get the 3 points. We can say what we want about this being the worst Mexican team ever (which probably is not true) we've always conceeded a heap of goals when we play in the Azteca.
If we're really honest with ourselves we'll accept that qualifying for South Africa is a bonus and look at this as a chance to develop a team and a coach all in one effort. That being said we still have a chance at a least 4th place.
Where was this defense of Maturana. How you mean the coach could do so much? Look at the tactical arrangement on the field and see how easy it was for the Mexicans to exploit we. We never addressed anything on the field. The same problems in the beginning f the game was the same problems at the end of the game. And don't say that the coach may have told them but they did not carry it out. For starters we were playing to flat in the middle of the field, we never addressed that. The left side we never attempted to fix that problem.
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Plain and simple....two losses out of two games played = 0 points out of 6 possible points. We have to judge by the same standards that we would judge any international coach, and that is by the record....Games played, wins, losses, Draws.
At this point its a failing grade. However, we still have the second round of qualifying games to be played. Five more games I think. Let us judge coach Latas performance at the end of the qualifiers. Its not a happy story at the moment. In world cup qualifying the only thing that matters is Points and Positive goal difference.
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waayyyz! allyuh men real harsh boy :-\
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Plain and simple....two losses out of two games played = 0 points out of 6 possible points. We have to judge by the same standards that we would judge any international coach, and that is by the record....Games played, wins, losses, Draws.
At this point its a failing grade. However, we still have the second round of qualifying games to be played. Five more games I think. Let us judge coach Latas performance at the end of the qualifiers. Its not a happy story at the moment. In world cup qualifying the only thing that matters is Points and Positive goal difference.
from the performances in the last two matches, people tryin to project what the team would look like on a good day.
which brings me to the hi-lited part of your post
we endin up in 3rd place
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[quote
Where was this defense of Maturana. How you mean the coach could do so much? Look at the tactical arrangement on the field and see how easy it was for the Mexicans to exploit we. We never addressed anything on the field. The same problems in the beginning f the game was the same problems at the end of the game. And don't say that the coach may have told them but they did not carry it out. For starters we were playing to flat in the middle of the field, we never addressed that. The left side we never attempted to fix that problem.
[/quote]
You have to be a real ass to ask that question. But then again your innocence concerning the game could be your excuse. How could a man who has done nothing but reduce our national team to a laughing stock in concacaf be defended? Check back to maturana's first two games, if you can, and tell us about the mighty opposition he faced. Tactical arrangement on the field my ass. What you know bout tactical arrangement? Not even the great tactician Beeenie went into Mexico and came out with such a result. Why you just dont hush yuh wannabe ass and stop trying to impress people on this board.
Regards ...I'll send you a post card from South Africa. B+
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Where was this defense of Maturana. How you mean the coach could do so much? Look at the tactical arrangement on the field and see how easy it was for the Mexicans to exploit we. We never addressed anything on the field. The same problems in the beginning f the game was the same problems at the end of the game. And don't say that the coach may have told them but they did not carry it out. For starters we were playing to flat in the middle of the field, we never addressed that. The left side we never attempted to fix that problem.
Defense? Perhaps you should reread my statement before you refer to it as a defense. If I read the topic heading properly it asked for a grade of Latapy's work so far. I agreed with one assessment and gave reasons for doing so. That's a justification for my opinion, not a defense of a coach. I think my comment about a coach doing so much shouldn't need explanation. If it does then I'd recommend a primary school English teacher to help you understand it.
To humour you though how does the coach stop players like Lawrence or Andrews from ball watching? All kind of people coach these men and they still doing it. The coach should go on the field and execute that for them too? That's one example of a coach being able to do so much. If that was the team's only problem under Maturana then I'd have been defending him too. For what it's worth I did for a long while say that too much blame was being handed his way.
As for your match opinions that just proves that we all see the game differently. I'm not sure how else you wanted the midfield or team to play nor am I sure what they did that was too flat. You're entitled to think it and say it. Respect due still.
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I think most agree that the team has shown improvement in the last two games we played even though we did not get any points and remain at the bottom of standings
I suggest we start grading the coach from the first game in the next round,Latas was given two warm up games ( Costa Rica...Mexico)... :devil: :devil:
B.....for Latas....this team after two games is still growing
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[quote
Where was this defense of Maturana. How you mean the coach could do so much? Look at the tactical arrangement on the field and see how easy it was for the Mexicans to exploit we. We never addressed anything on the field. The same problems in the beginning f the game was the same problems at the end of the game. And don't say that the coach may have told them but they did not carry it out. For starters we were playing to flat in the middle of the field, we never addressed that. The left side we never attempted to fix that problem.
You have to be a real ass to ask that question. But then again your innocence concerning the game could be your excuse. How could a man who has done nothing but reduce our national team to a laughing stock in concacaf be defended? Check back to maturana's first two games, if you can, and tell us about the mighty opposition he faced. Tactical arrangement on the field my ass. What you know bout tactical arrangement? Not even the great tactician Beeenie went into Mexico and came out with such a result. Why you just dont hush yuh wannabe ass and stop trying to impress people on this board.
Regards ...I'll send you a post card from South Africa. B+
What result we get? We LOSS 2-1, how is that a result. Talk about football innocence. We get kicked all over the field and into the goal and you talking about result and tactical arrangement don't matter. You having a laugh son. Why not try and dispute what I saying something factual or analytical instead of the garbage you spewing. Result, we get a result, and you trying to imps man up.
Like you forgetting vvvvvv
SEMIFINAL ROUND/RONDA SEMIFINAL
GROUP/GRUPO A
Match/Partido #9
15.10.2008: Port of Spain, TRINIDAD & TOBAGO; Hasely Crawford Stadium (A: 19000)
TRINIDAD & TOBAGO – USA 2:1 (0:0)
Russell LATAPY 60’; Dwight YORKE 79’ - Charlie DAVIES 74’
TRI: Clayton Ince – Aklie Edwards, Keyeno Thomas (40: Makan Hislop), Dennis Lawrence,
Christopher Birchall, Keon Daniel, Russell Latapy (76: Kaleem Hyland), Carlos Edwards,
Jason Scotland (66: Stern John), Silvio Spann, Dwight Yorke-C. Booked: none
TD: Francisco MATURANA
USA: Brad Guzan – Frankie Hejduk, Michael Orozco, Francisco Torres (83: Danny Szetela),
DaMarcus Beasley-C, Jozy Altidore, Maurice Edu, Danny Califf, Heath Pearce (87: Chris Rolfe),
Sacha Kljestan, Freddy Adu (69: Charlie Davies). Booked: Altidore 79’
TD: Bob BRADLEY
R: Walter QUESADA (CRC)
A1: Leonel LEAL (CRC)
A2: Osvaldo LUNA (CRC)
FO: Mark FORDE (BRB)
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Where was this defense of Maturana. How you mean the coach could do so much? Look at the tactical arrangement on the field and see how easy it was for the Mexicans to exploit we. We never addressed anything on the field. The same problems in the beginning f the game was the same problems at the end of the game. And don't say that the coach may have told them but they did not carry it out. For starters we were playing to flat in the middle of the field, we never addressed that. The left side we never attempted to fix that problem.
Defense? Perhaps you should reread my statement before you refer to it as a defense. If I read the topic heading properly it asked for a grade of Latapy's work so far. I agreed with one assessment and gave reasons for doing so. That's a justification for my opinion, not a defense of a coach. I think my comment about a coach doing so much shouldn't need explanation. If it does then I'd recommend a primary school English teacher to help you understand it.
To humour you though how does the coach stop players like Lawrence or Andrews from ball watching? All kind of people coach these men and they still doing it. The coach should go on the field and execute that for them too? That's one example of a coach being able to do so much. If that was the team's only problem under Maturana then I'd have been defending him too. For what it's worth I did for a long while say that too much blame was being handed his way.
As for your match opinions that just proves that we all see the game differently. I'm not sure how else you wanted the midfield or team to play nor am I sure what they did that was too flat. You're entitled to think it and say it. Respect due still.
But dwolfman we eh play no football vs Mexico. This is my biggest problem, how people could say we played well when we were not much better than when we play USA in Nashville. Is it because of the brilliant goal that Tinto score that everyone saying we played well? I am very confused about this. Watch the CR game then watch the Mexico game and yo can see is to different T&T teams out there.
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Where was this defense of Maturana. How you mean the coach could do so much? Look at the tactical arrangement on the field and see how easy it was for the Mexicans to exploit we. We never addressed anything on the field. The same problems in the beginning f the game was the same problems at the end of the game. And don't say that the coach may have told them but they did not carry it out. For starters we were playing to flat in the middle of the field, we never addressed that. The left side we never attempted to fix that problem.
Defense? Perhaps you should reread my statement before you refer to it as a defense. If I read the topic heading properly it asked for a grade of Latapy's work so far. I agreed with one assessment and gave reasons for doing so. That's a justification for my opinion, not a defense of a coach. I think my comment about a coach doing so much shouldn't need explanation. If it does then I'd recommend a primary school English teacher to help you understand it.
To humour you though how does the coach stop players like Lawrence or Andrews from ball watching? All kind of people coach these men and they still doing it. The coach should go on the field and execute that for them too? That's one example of a coach being able to do so much. If that was the team's only problem under Maturana then I'd have been defending him too. For what it's worth I did for a long while say that too much blame was being handed his way.
As for your match opinions that just proves that we all see the game differently. I'm not sure how else you wanted the midfield or team to play nor am I sure what they did that was too flat. You're entitled to think it and say it. Respect due still.
But dwolfman we eh play no football vs Mexico. This is my biggest problem, how people could say we played well when we were not much better than when we play USA in Nashville. Is it because of the brilliant goal that Tinto score that everyone saying we played well? I am very confused about this. Watch the CR game then watch the Mexico game and yo can see is to different T&T teams out there.
thanks alot eh elan..a man see one or two fan and a flukey (but good) goal and latapy totally turn around the team..men get on as if the only games maturana coach was the games against bermuda, the us and grenada in the digi..nothing else matter...
he wasn't the best coach buh geez..open alyuh eyes ppl...
latapy coach the team and it looks better goign forward and lil more cohesive in the middle buh the defense selling rel guns and we field an unbalanced backline against one of our most formidable opposition and he getting a B????
let's be real people..
perhaps I should put a marking scheme
v Mexico
Squad - 30
Good battling and versatile midfielders selected, variety pf offensive players adequate but no recognised left back selected though team hampered due to injuries and suspensions..fair mix of youth and experience
16/30
TACTICS - 35
Starting lineup seemed to suit counter attacking play however defensive midfielders selected contribute few if any linking passes from the midfield..leaving offensive plan virtually non-existent for entire game..no definte change of plan to break up opponent's strategy
12/35
SUBSTITIONS - 15
Jorsling for Jones - striker for striker..however Jorsling had less impact than Jones and made several errors
Spann for Noel - showed slight hustle intially but made little impact, may have been used as a sub for Yorke
Baptiste for Daniel - little impact on game as he hardly saw the ball..
6/15
RESULT - 20
Great result considering opposition and team injuries, bad result considering standing in table..but goal difference not severely affected
11/20
TOTAL = 45/100
v Costa Rica
SQUAD
Balanced squad comprising of versatile battling midfielders though ..very good variety of atteckers..aging but solid back four selected..
21/30
TACTICS
Attacking game with midfield pressuring puts opponents off at first..hosts of chacnes created as a result..however no adjustment to their switch of tempo after scoring first goal or conceding third goal...
19/35
SUBSTITIONS
Samuel for Tinto - while a worthy contributor...it can be argued Tinto had simialr impact if not more impact on offense and did not warrant a substitution
Glenn for Spann - striker in for possiblly most creative midfielder out of the central bunch both adds spark to the attack but reduces balance of team as yorke fals further out of the game..leaving the middle undermanned
Birchall for Scotland - A tad late, but the person who most deserved a sub is removed last..while a midfielder who is better suited to defend a goal than create one is introduved..Birchall has little impact on game..
4/15
RESULT
Very bad result..three home points are lost..especially considering the team was leading and each goal was due to defensive errors. First home loss since premilinary round defeat to Bermuda.
0/20
TOTAL 44/100
I'll do some of Maturana's if you want
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some ah allyuh grading on a curve.... has he taken us any step closer to South Africa? That's the only question that needs to be answered!!!!!!!
need to include some intangibles when Latas got the team during the middle of the campaign. grading on a curve kinda justified. come like taking a man score on a test at face value when you didn't give him any time to study.
wasn't he the assistant coach?????
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some ah allyuh grading on a curve.... has he taken us any step closer to South Africa? That's the only question that needs to be answered!!!!!!!
need to include some intangibles when Latas got the team during the middle of the campaign. grading on a curve kinda justified. come like taking a man score on a test at face value when you didn't give him any time to study.
wasn't he the assistant coach?????
yes he was MEP, but how much input u really tink he had at dat time? i doubt it was anyting significant
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This is WCQ if you cannoy grade the coach after two games, when will you grade him, this is not a league. Also, if we cannot grade the coach after two games, how can we grade players who only had two game?
AFTER 1 GAME I knew Mats was a goat. I eh catholic and I nearly went for ash