Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: Flex on August 07, 2009, 06:03:29 AM
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Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
By David Arreola (Columnist)
This past season Barcelona's Champions League conquest over Manchester United completed the fifth-ever European Treble, and first since 1999. Ironically, Manchester United was the winner of that particular Treble.
For those of you who are new to football, or perhaps you've just been born, the term Treble refers to a team winning three trophies in one season. There are many variaties of Trebles in football, varying on the country and association. However, the most prestigous is known as the Continental Treble. This Treble includes trophies from a top tier league, top tier domestic cup, and continental trophy.
The European Treble is the highest honor attainable by all nations. It should be noted that such thing as a Quadruple and Quintuple exist, however they are impossible in most football associations around the world.
Anyway, enough with the education. Let's get to football.
With Barcelona's recent Treble, I have asked the question: whose Treble was greater, Manchester United in 1999 or Barcelona in 2009?
Talent
Both clubs were loaded with individual talent. For Manchester United, names like Ryan Giggs, David Beckham, Roy Keane, Teddy Sheringham, and Andy Cole come to mind. For Barcelona you list the names of Lionel Messi, Sameul Eto'o, Andres Iniesta, Thierry Henry, and Xavi.
Both teams played beautiful football and if they were not dominating opponents, they were getting ready to crawl back from a deficit.
For this particular section, I do not give the edge to either Manchester United nor Barcelona. They are completely even in terms of individual talent.
Edge: Even
Domestic Cup
Manchester United won the F.A. Cup in 1999. The road was a very difficult one. United were matched up against five Premier League opponents in each of the first rounds of the competition.
United were drawn with their bitter rival Liverpool in the fourth round. Michael Owen scored in the third minute and Liverpool did not trail for 89 minutes. Dwight Yorke equalized from a David Beckham free kick in the 86th minute, and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer won the match for Manchester United in the 92nd minute. Manchester United snatched victory from the very hands of their opponents, as you will read this became a trend for the 1999 Treble winners.
United played Arsenal in a semi-finals, but the match finished scoreless after 120 minutes and was scheduled for a replay three days later.
With the replay match tied 1-1, Arsenal nearly stole the Treble dream from Manchester United. Arsenal were awarded a penalty in injury time. Dennis Bergkamp's penalty kick was saved by Peter Schmeichel and the match went into extra time.
Midway through the second half of extra time, Ryan Giggs scored one of the most astonishing and breath taking goals of all-time. Giggs started his run at the half-way line and beat the entire Arsenal back line and scored a left-footed shot that blasted into the roof of the net. United had taken one step closer to the Treble.
In the F.A. Cup Final, Manchester United defeated Newcastle United 2-0 in a rather dominating performance.
Barcelona won the Copa Del Rey in 2009. They faced an early test against Benidorm, a team from the second tier of Spanish football. Barcelona won both legs 1-0 behind goals from Bojan Kircic and Lionel Messi.
In the round of sixteen, Barcelona demolished their La Liga counterparts Athletico Madrid 5-2 in the aggregate. Barcelona faced a serious test from Espanyol in the quarter finals. The first leg finished in a 0-0 draw, however Barca defeated their Catalonian rivals 3-2 at the Nou Camp behind a stellar performance from Bojan Kircic.
In the semifinal, Barcelona defeated Mallorca 3-1 in the aggregate and advanced to the Copa Del Rey final where they would face Athletic Bilbao. The final was nothing short of a fiasco for Bilbao. Barcelona scored four unanswered goals after trailing Bilbao 1-0 following an 8th minute goal from Toquero. Barcelona had won the Copa Del Rey for the first time since 1998.
Edge: Manchester United were able to steal victories from some of the best teams in England. Barcelona dominated their opponents, but faced weaker teams.
League Football
Barcelona won the Spanish Primera Division in 2009 with 87 points in the table. Barca was nine points clear of second place Real Madrid. Barcelona finished the La Liga season with a record of 26-6-5.
After a couple bad performances to start the season, Barcelona found themselves in 15th position. However, behind a sensational nine-game winning streak, they claimed the top spot on the table. Barcelona would remain unbeaten for 21 games in La Liga.
Barcelona dominated the entire league all season. They were in the top position for virtually the entire season. From when they first took over in round nine all the way until the very end.
The highlight of their season was the colossal 6-1 victory over rivals Real Madrid. This win solidified Barcelona's place as Spanish League champion.
Manchester United won the F.A. Premier League in 1999 with a then record number of goals scored. Manchester United won with 79 points in the table, only one point ahead over Arsenal. After the first five matches, United were in 10th place and struggling. However, Man U. managed to rip of a seven game unbeaten streak to earn second position on the table.
It was a dogfight all season long between Manchester United, Arsenal, and Chelsea. Following a 3-2 loss to Middlesbrough in the 18th round, United were third on the table. They would not lose again the entire season.
United showed big margins of victory on their way to the Premier League title. One such result was an 8-1 victory at Nottingham Forest. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer scored four goals in the final ten minutes of the game.
Edge: Barcelona won more games and never really struggled during the season. Despite United's impressive 20 game unbeaten streak to end the season, Barcelona were always in first position on the table.
Champions League
Barcelona won their Champions League group with thirteen points and a record of 4-1-1. They were drawn with French club Lyon in the round of sixteen. The first leg in Lyon finished 1-1 with Barcelona having the away goal advantage. However, they would not need it. Barcelona destroyed Lyon 5-2 in the second leg.
The quarterfinals saw a dream matchup between Bayern Munich and Barcelona. Both clubs were heavy favorites to win the Champions League in 2009. Barcelona ended any hopes Bayern had of a European title when they defeated them 4-0 in the first leg at the Nou Camp. Barcelona advanced 5-1 on aggregate.
In the semifinals, Barcelona would meet with English club Chelsea to determine who would go to Rome for the final. After a 0-0 draw at the Nou Camp, the second leg at Stamford Bridge was the center of controversy during the second leg. Chelsea's Michael Essien scored a stunning goal early in the game to give Chelsea the advantage. During the course of the game there were many obvious, and not so obvious, penalty situations that were not awarded by the referee.
The missed penalties proved fatal for Chelsea as Andres Iniesta fired in a beautiful goal from about 21 yards out, in injury time. Barcelona had stolen the match on the away goals rule, denying Chelsea a return to the Champions League Final.
In the final, Barcelona started off badly the first ten minutes against Manchester United, but took over the match for the final 80 minutes. A goal from Samuel Eto'o in the 15th minute changed the match. Barcelona controlled possesion in midfield and made Manchester United look like fools, rather than the defending European Champions.
Lionel Messi's jaw dropping header in the 77th minute was the final nail in the coffin for Manchester United as Barcelona had all but won the title.
After the referees whistle, Barcelona had won their Treble.
Manchester United finished second in their group with ten points with a record of 2-4-0. The older format of the Champions League was much different from the current one we have today. Back in 1999, only the two best runner ups in the group stage would advance to the knockout stage.
In the quarterfinals, Manchester United defeated the heavily favored Internazionale Milan with a convincing 3-1 aggregate. In the semifinals against Juventus, Manchester United relied on late goals to advance to the final. The first was a 90th minute equalizer from Ryan Giggs in the first leg at Old Trafford, which finished 1-1. The return leg in Italy finished 3-2 in United's favor. Andy Cole's 84th minute goal sealed Juve's fate and put United in the final.
The 1999 Champions League Final needs no introduction. Manchester United and Bayern Munich had both won their league and major domestic cups. Meaning that no matter who won, we would have a Treble winner in 1999. The only question was, who would it be?
Mario Basler of Bayern Munich gave the German club the lead in the sixth minute on a low curling free kick. Bayern Munich would not be down for every minute of the game, except the one that matters. The match was dominated by the German club as they kept the pressure on United all match. It wasn't until Ole Gunnar Solskjaer came on as a substitute in the 80th minute that United made a run, and did they ever make a run.
With injury time looming, United were still trailing 1-0. A corner kick was awarded as injury time had just begun. The corner kick was poorly cleared by the Bayern Munich defense as Ryan Giggs was able to get a shot off. The shot was a bad one, but so bad, that it went right to Teddy Sheringham who calmly redirected it into the back of the net. Despite being behind and outplayed most of the match, United appeared to have forced extra time.
Less than 30 seconds after the restart, Manchester United had forced another corner kick. David Beckham's corner kick was headed by Teddy Sheringham towards the far post, where Ole Gunnar Solskjaer was waiting to poke it into the roof of the net in a reflex like movement. Bayern had led most of the match, but now found themselves trailing 2-1 in a matter of minutes.
Manchester United completed one of the most thrilling comebacks in recent memory. They had won their Treble in injury time of the Champions League Final.
Edge: Despite the heart-stopping finish to the season, Manchester United will not be receiving my vote here. Barcelona demolished some of the toughest clubs in Europe, including the defending European champion, Manchester United.
The Verdict
In my humble opinion, I think the 2009 Barcelona Treble team was better than the 1999 Treble team of Manchester United. Barcelona were never really challenged, except for the Chelsea matches, as they ran through all competitions.
However, I believe that Manchester United's Treble season was the stuff of legends. Late goals, dramatic comebacks, and that unbelievable night at the Nou Camp, all of these things means to me that their Treble was greater. It is hard to differentiate between the two, as they are so very even.
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bullshit
United's treble had more to do than Barca's treble
League 98/99- United went to the last day over a dramatic season with at least 2 other teams competing... Barca had no competition due to unstable qualities of Real Madrid and lack of top class teams in La Liga this season
Cup Run- United faced Liverpool,Chelsea and Arsenal before beating Newcastle in the final
Barca's cup run...no way as hard
CL- United's group was Barca,Brondby and Bayern Munich...QF vs Inter Milan and SF vs Juventus including coming from 2-0 down to win 3-2 away.. then the Final vs another top team in Bayern
Barca's CL run to the final was relatively simple until the SF where with some luck they managed to get to the Final and beat United in a deserved victory
Our Treble will be the greatest Treble ever known.... credit to Barca for achieving it.. but they will live in the Shadow of the United Treble
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UNITED ALL THE WAY.... FACKT BARCA...!
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bullshit
United's treble had more to do than Barca's treble
League 98/99- United went to the last day over a dramatic season with at least 2 other teams competing... Barca had no competition due to unstable qualities of Real Madrid and lack of top class teams in La Liga this season
Cup Run- United faced Liverpool,Chelsea and Arsenal before beating Newcastle in the final
Barca's cup run...no way as hard
CL- United's group was Barca,Brondby and Bayern Munich...QF vs Inter Milan and SF vs Juventus including coming from 2-0 down to win 3-2 away.. then the Final vs another top team in Bayern
Barca's CL run to the final was relatively simple until the SF where with some luck they managed to get to the Final and beat United in a deserved victory
Our Treble will be the greatest Treble ever known.... credit to Barca for achieving it.. but they will live in the Shadow of the United Treble
I agree with you about giving the edge to Man United in their accomplishments in the league...
However lets be real... Bayern Munich dominated Man Utd in that final, and is 2 lucky deflection scramble up goal that give Man Utd the treble..
on the contrary, any doubt about Barcelona being the best team in Europe was erased when they destroyed Man Utd, the incumbent champions in the final...
and for the sheer excellence of their season, I say Barcelona's treble was better.
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Man U's treble was more dramatic...Barca's was more dominant.
Neither success should take the shine off of the other.
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Steupppsss...two shit side alyuh arguing bout. :devil:
Discuss a Big side like Arsenal nah.
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Steupppsss...two shit side alyuh arguing bout. :devil:
Discuss a Big side like Arsenal nah.
Its sickening to discuss an old mans obsession with young boys... :beermug:
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Steupppsss...two shit side alyuh arguing bout. :devil:
Discuss a Big side like Arsenal nah.
Arsenal's treble = 3 years trophyless.
legendary!
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Steupppsss...two shit side alyuh arguing bout. :devil:
Discuss a Big side like Arsenal nah.
stay outta big man business.....one ah dese days yuh go find ah good team to support :) :) :)
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Jokers yes, this is even a question, steups (Flex, not directed at you)
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Man U treble was better for the reasons that Small Mag outlined.
Every single team they played except Brondby was a top team.
Imagine a Barca team with Rivaldo, Luis Enrique, Luis Figo, Sergi, Cocu, De BoerX2 did not make it out of the group. And they won La Liga that year and the year before.
Juventus were the defending Serie A champions and were 2nd in the previous Champions league.
Inter were 2nd is Serie A the year before.
Bayern won their league that year.
Barca had to beat much less prolific teams last season.
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Barcelona were never really challenged
This is why Uniteds treble was a bigger achievement.
They were pushed to the last game of the season in the league by a fantastic Arsenal team...had five epic games against Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool on the way to reaching to the FA Cup final...
In the Champions League, they had to play Barcelona twice, Munich three times, Inter twice and Juventus twice...
They overcame nearly every team they faced, often being made to dig deep...
- 2-0 down in the Champions League semi final against Juventus, United win 3-2
- 1-0 down against Liverpool at Old Trafford in the FA Cup with two minutes left, United win 2-1
- Schmeichel saving Bergkamps penalty in the last minute of the FA Cup semi final replay against Arsenal when the score was 1-1. United won the game 2-1.
- 1-0 down against Bayern Munich with two minutes left in the Champions League final, United win 2-1...
I've listed four separate occasions where Uniteds treble bid could have evaporated, yet they pulled things out of the fire each time and thats why their treble achievement was greater...Barcelona were hardly ever pushed to such extremes and were helped in the league by Real Madrids inability to challenge them. It was a one horse race.
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This will be one of the biggest football arguments for the next 10-15 years, at least until someone else wins a treble (or someone head-butts another player in a World Cup final again :) ).
I think that in the end, the consensus will always be that ManU definitely won their treble in a more dramatic fashion, and with much stiffer competition in all 3 tournaments. Barca was a lot more dominant, but the quality of competition was just not there for them.
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makes for a nice fairytale story, but do you put the greater importance on luck or dominance?
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steups.
ManUre would be known as Mid Table United in La Liga.
Fuh sure, they wouldn't be getting them b.s. ref calls that they does get.
Doh study it though. ManUre will be known as Mid Table United at the end of the EPL in 09/10 ... especially since they make a rule targetting people like Fergie who like to run dey mouth about refs before the match.
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This will be one of the biggest football arguments for the next 10-15 years, at least until someone else wins a treble (or someone head-butts another player in a World Cup final again :) ).
I think that in the end, the consensus will always be that ManU definitely won their treble in a more dramatic fashion, and with much stiffer competition in all 3 tournaments. Barca was a lot more dominant, but the quality of competition was just not there for them.
Because the EPL better than La Liga ent.
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makes for a nice fairytale story, but do you put the greater importance on luck or dominance?
Barca dominated because they were lucky enough to have less able competition.
:devil:
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Barca's treble was greater because with all dem "epic" games Man U had in 99 (and they were epic)...Barca's feat was more incredible because aside from the Chelsea game in the 2nd leg, they took apart teams that were top teams in the sport. it's the equivalent of Man U taking those same teams in 99 and trouncing all bar one of them.
Along the way Barca decimated French Champions Lyon
Trounced German Champions Bayern Munich
And in the CL Final they dropped a thorough ass whipping on the team many (english) pundits were saying was the best team in the world. That title was soon transferred by the same pundits to Barcelona (as if there was any doubt by TRUE football fans).
This was no fluke. Aside from Chelsea in the 2nd leg of the CL semi final, they steamrolled ALL OPPOSITION including DESTROYING arch rivals and top club Real Madrid 6-2 ON REAL'S HOME TURF to execute the coup de grace for the La Liga title.
Yes Man U's triumph in 1999 was more dramatic, but as the CL Final showed, Barca's accomplishment and the manner in which they did it, destroying teams with classic...pure...attractive...attacking...DREAM football, is the stuff of legend. Nothing has come close.
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This will be one of the biggest football arguments for the next 10-15 years, at least until someone else wins a treble (or someone head-butts another player in a World Cup final again :) ).
I think that in the end, the consensus will always be that ManU definitely won their treble in a more dramatic fashion, and with much stiffer competition in all 3 tournaments. Barca was a lot more dominant, but the quality of competition was just not there for them.
Because the EPL better than La Liga ent.
I'm don't give preference to EPL or La Liga, but I know that 1999's EPL was a much better league than 2009's La Liga was, compared to the other leagues in Europe at the time.
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makes for a nice fairytale story, but do you put the greater importance on luck or dominance?
They led La Liga from the get go because nobody really challenged them. Real Madrid were making a pigs arse of their own campaign and summarily imploding inside their own ego while Barcelona just picked up points and watched as their rivals routinely dropped points elsewhere.
Compare that to Uniteds league campaign in 1998/99. They were pushed all the way by an Arsenal side who were mostly matching United punch for punch up until the last day of the season.
Barcelona defeated United in this years Champions League final, but compare their campaign fixtures with Uniteds in 1999. Now you tell me, do you think this seasons Barcelona side would have won it so easily? Uniteds opponents that year reads like a who's who of great club sides. Juventus, Barcelona and Bayern were arguably in the top 3 of club sides in the World that year, Inter who had Ronaldo, Zamorano and Djorkaeff were no slouches themselves...and United didn't lose a single game against any of them.
Bayern did dominate United in the final that year, but the had what it took to keep going. In a sense, they were lucky...but they kept going and refused to be beaten. Nobody will ever win a final like that again. They created their own luck and just for the record, if you watch Solskjaers goal again you'll see that it wasn't a deflection, it was flicked on by Sheringham for him to prod in at close range. Or are flick-ons, deflections and toe pokes wrong in your football purists handbook? Considering the amount of goals Fat Frank Lampard gets from shots cannoning in off defenders arses, I'd have thought you would have kept quiet on that particular topic...
I suppose you're the type of fella who would rather watch a boxing match where one fighter throws the punches while the other stands still, since you're a proponent of dominance when it comes to winning things.
Uniteds treble was a phenomenal achievement because they pulled it off in the face of extreme adversity and defeated the best sides that England and Europe had to offer and I've already made point of that in my previous post.
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Along the way Barca decimated French Champions Lyon
United also eliminated Lyon in 2008. Whats your point?
Since when did Lyon become a European powerhouse? You're just throwing some names out there to justify a point which is pretty thin at best.
Trounced German Champions Bayern Munich
Yes, because todays Bayern Munich are pretty much the same team as the one that faced United in '99. They're also the same Bayern side that defeated Barcelona at the Nou Camp 2-1 in the group stages that year as well...
Please.
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Barca's treble was greater because with all dem "epic" games Man U had in 99 (and they were epic)...Barca's feat was more incredible because aside from the Chelsea game in the 2nd leg, they took apart teams that were top teams in the sport. it's the equivalent of Man U taking those same teams in 99 and trouncing all bar one of them.
So you talkin about Lyon, Bayern (shitty for some years now), Shaktar Donesk, Sporting Lisbon and FC Basel .
Palos yuh take yuh meds?
Edit:
Fuss the teams Barca play were shit last year, Lyon and Lisbon now have to qualify for the CL via playoff, and Bayern just scrape through into the last automatic CL spot.
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barca.
would be a "cleaner" treble if not for the controversy at chelsea.
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Well Man United had Dwight Yorke and Barca did not :-\
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barca.
would be a "cleaner" treble if not for the controversy at chelsea.
Thank you.... :beermug:
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Man Utd no doubt...I have d dvd of the treble (borrow from ah bredrin and neva return it :-[ )...does get goosebumps watchin yorkie and them, that yr was magic.
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The original article is the correct answer!
The Barca treble team and brand is/was better!
But the Man U treble achievement was greater...
plus it had plenty more parity in football dem days.
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The original article is the correct answer!
The Barca treble team and brand is/was better!
But the Man U treble achievement was greater...
plus it had plenty more parity in football dem days.
From a RM man, we guh take dat and go..... :beermug:
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The original article is the correct answer!
The Barca treble team and brand is/was better!
But the Man U treble achievement was greater...
plus it had plenty more parity in football dem days.
Show me which part of this post makes sense?
Barcelona's treble was better than United's although United's achievement was greater?
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
plus it had plenty more parity in football dem days
?
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bullshit
United's treble had more to do than Barca's treble
League 98/99- United went to the last day over a dramatic season with at least 2 other teams competing... Barca had no competition due to unstable qualities of Real Madrid and lack of top class teams in La Liga this season
Cup Run- United faced Liverpool,Chelsea and Arsenal before beating Newcastle in the final
Barca's cup run...no way as hard
CL- United's group was Barca,Brondby and Bayern Munich...QF vs Inter Milan and SF vs Juventus including coming from 2-0 down to win 3-2 away.. then the Final vs another top team in Bayern
Barca's CL run to the final was relatively simple until the SF where with some luck they managed to get to the Final and beat United in a deserved victory
Our Treble will be the greatest Treble ever known.... credit to Barca for achieving it.. but they will live in the Shadow of the United Treble
of course you and every bleeding manu "fan" would say yours was "better" but here's what, can't compare, two diff leagues
now say if arsenal does it i would say arsenals would be harder due to the level premireship sides have reached in the last 10 years
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The original article is the correct answer!
The Barca treble team and brand is/was better!
But the Man U treble achievement was greater...
plus it had plenty more parity in football dem days.
Show me which part of this post makes sense?
Barcelona's treble was better than United's although United's achievement was greater?
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
plus it had plenty more parity in football dem days
?
There was not as much of a divide between the top teams in a given league and the rest. i.e. it was more competitive
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The fact that all United/EPL fans will say that United's treble was better, and all Barca/La Liga will say that Barca's was better renders this discussion useless and lacking objectivity.
There are arguments on both sides and I maintain that neither of the achievements should take the shine off the other....They were both monumental.
It's one thing to say that Man U had stiffer competition, but that same argument can be used against them (i.e. Barca didn't face the same level of competition as Man U did, not because the level of competition was low, but because Barca themselves were that Great)...After all Barca did steamroll Man U in the CL final...A Man U squad that dominated England and coasted through much of the Champions' League and was being compared to the great treble winning side of 99....
The Barca of 2009 played a level of football that I've seen no other team in the modern game execute with that degree of consistency....and they did it with a style that football fans dream of. They simply demolished teams...
The Man U of 1999 won games in the manner that movies are made of...Even when they didn't play well they were resilient and found ways to eke out victories.
Whichever you consider greater is a matter of preference and as this thread indicates- biased allegiance.
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Barca's treble was greater because with all dem "epic" games Man U had in 99 (and they were epic)...Barca's feat was more incredible because aside from the Chelsea game in the 2nd leg, they took apart teams that were top teams in the sport. it's the equivalent of Man U taking those same teams in 99 and trouncing all bar one of them.
Along the way Barca decimated French Champions Lyon
Trounced German Champions Bayern Munich
And in the CL Final they dropped a thorough ass whipping on the team many (english) pundits were saying was the best team in the world. That title was soon transferred by the same pundits to Barcelona (as if there was any doubt by TRUE football fans).
This was no fluke. Aside from Chelsea in the 2nd leg of the CL semi final, they steamrolled ALL OPPOSITION including DESTROYING arch rivals and top club Real Madrid 6-2 ON REAL'S HOME TURF to execute the coup de grace for the La Liga title.
Yes Man U's triumph in 1999 was more dramatic, but as the CL Final showed, Barca's accomplishment and the manner in which they did it, destroying teams with classic...pure...attractive...attacking...DREAM football, is the stuff of legend. Nothing has come close.
crick crack..
monkey break he back...
with ah piece ah pommerac..
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Barca's treble was greater because with all dem "epic" games Man U had in 99 (and they were epic)...Barca's feat was more incredible because aside from the Chelsea game in the 2nd leg, they took apart teams that were top teams in the sport. it's the equivalent of Man U taking those same teams in 99 and trouncing all bar one of them.
Along the way Barca decimated French Champions Lyon
Trounced German Champions Bayern Munich
And in the CL Final they dropped a thorough ass whipping on the team many (english) pundits were saying was the best team in the world. That title was soon transferred by the same pundits to Barcelona (as if there was any doubt by TRUE football fans).
This was no fluke. Aside from Chelsea in the 2nd leg of the CL semi final, they steamrolled ALL OPPOSITION including DESTROYING arch rivals and top club Real Madrid 6-2 ON REAL'S HOME TURF to execute the coup de grace for the La Liga title.
Yes Man U's triumph in 1999 was more dramatic, but as the CL Final showed, Barca's accomplishment and the manner in which they did it, destroying teams with classic...pure...attractive...attacking...DREAM football, is the stuff of legend. Nothing has come close.
crick crack..
monkey break he back...
with ah piece ah pommerac..
"For a rotten pomerac"
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they steamrolled ALL OPPOSITION including DESTROYING arch rivals and top club Real Madrid 6-2 ON REAL'S HOME TURF to execute the coup de grace for the La Liga title.
Not really a major achievement when you consider that Real are terribly inept at defending. They lost 10 league games last season. 10. They also conceeded 52 GOALS in La Liga alone...So 6-2 isn't that much of a big deal, imo.
I don't buy into this hyperbole about this new form of 'out of this World' brand of football. They still managed to lose five games in the league which just backs up what I said before that they were never really challenged. United lost four games during the entire 1998/99 campaign...IN ALL COMPETITIONS. Taking into the account the teams they faced, you can't deny that their Treble has to be regarded as a monumental (and unrivaled) achievement.
Instead, you want to talk about 'football we've never seen before' yadda yadda yadda, a label that was thrown around when Cruyff was in charge there. 'The Dream Team' who played 'unbelievable, dream-like football'. Not as unbelievable as the 4-0 spanking Capellos Milan handed them in the 1994 Champions League final (for those of us who can think back that far).
Barcelona aren't unbeatable, five games lost in La Liga proves that...they're just very, very good.
I'll also go ahead and say that those people who dismiss Uniteds exploits in 1999 as being lucky should remember that Chelsea would have been in the final this year had it not been for some diabolical refereeing. I seem to remember Mr. 'I prefer dominance over luck' dinho moaning and complaining about how the referee won that semi final and how lucky Barcelona were in April...
Tsk. Tsk.
Along the way Barca decimated French Champions Lyon
Trounced German Champions Bayern Munich
Lyon are a good side, nothing more. You make them out to be some sort of European giant yet they never seem to get past the quarter final stage and play in a very weak domestic league. The Eredivisie is a stronger competition than Lique 1, so I'm assuming that you'll promote AZ Alkmaar to 'giant' status the moment somebody decent beats them? Lyon are so brilliant, that they've NEVER gotten past the quarter final stage and usually lose against the first decent side they come up against.
United eliminated them in the second round in 2008, yet I didn't hear anyone laud it as some fantastic achievement. In all honesty, United were expected to progress from that round...
As for Bayern Munich, they've been on the slide in Europe for a few years now. In fact, they've never gotten past the quarter final stage since 2001. Sounds like you're throwing Bayern into the mix for the sake of it to back up what you are saying. They've been a shadow of what they once were for a long time now. From 1998 to 2001, they were one of the best sides in Europe. Apart from Ribery, who from Bayern could you seriously call world class? In 1999 they had Elber, Effenberg, Basler, Lizarazu, Kahn and Kuffour...a truly fantastic group of players...
Then theres this beauty from FF:
There was not as much of a divide between the top teams in a given league and the rest. i.e. it was more competitive
So Barcelona's treble should be more highly regarded because European club football was more competitive in 1999?
Oh dear.
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3=3
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Then theres this beauty from FF:
There was not as much of a divide between the top teams in a given league and the rest. i.e. it was more competitive
So Barcelona's treble should be more highly regarded because European club football was more competitive in 1999?
Oh dear.
Jackarse... i convince you lacking in reading comprehension... convinced... I actually said the opposite...
go back and read the original article and then read what i post.
Typical Man U fan... so want to argue... they totally blind
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threads like these, make u know what kinna sh*t man using to make their manure
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3=3
Best post in the thread.
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somebody need to merge the ManUre fan application with this thread.
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somebody need to merge the ManUre fan application with this thread.
http://www.livefootball.net/manchester-united-supporters.html
Mr Chestwig undoubtedly qualifies. What a name, btw.
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they steamrolled ALL OPPOSITION including DESTROYING arch rivals and top club Real Madrid 6-2 ON REAL'S HOME TURF to execute the coup de grace for the La Liga title.
Not really a major achievement when you consider that Real are terribly inept at defending. They lost 10 league games last season. 10. They also conceeded 52 GOALS in La Liga alone...So 6-2 isn't that much of a big deal, imo.
I don't buy into this hyperbole about this new form of 'out of this World' brand of football. They still managed to lose five games in the league which just backs up what I said before that they were never really challenged.
You call losing five games in the league NOT being challenged?
And Real Madrid had clawed back within four points of Barcelona so you take your time with yuh outta timing talk.
Let us not forget how injury ridden Real Madrid's squad was last year and how many starters were side-lined for lengthy periods and a couple crucial others for the entire season. It was so bad that they needed youth players to make up practice.
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For the fans that say ManU, the one thing you not considering is this....the ManU that was completely dsimantled by Barca last year would destroy the ManU of 99. Remember, Mourinho's Chelsea came in and completely revolutionize the level of play and points you need to win the EPL. I think there was a season that ManU finished a distant second to Chelsea and still had enough points to have broken the EPL record prior to that. So even in a space of 10 years, football is a whole different proposition now. Ball being played at an entire different level and pace.
But at the end of the day, like somebody said...3=3. Comparing trebles is kinda ridiculous.
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Lets start with FF...
Jackarse... i convince you lacking in reading comprehension... convinced... I actually said the opposite...
Really?
The Barca treble team and brand is/was better!
But the Man U treble achievement was greater...
Barcelona's team and 'brand' is better but Uniteds treble was greater....but then you go on to say that the article is correct and Barcelona's treble was the better of the two...
And you want to lecture people on comprehension? I think you should dust down your hooked on phonics DVD or separate one of your split personalities.
Then you sit there in your corner and dribble some more about:
there was more parity in football in those days
Which suggests that football was more competitive then than it is now, which would mean that it would have actually been harder for United to win the treble then than it would be now. Huh?
And now we come to filho...
Ball being played at an entire different level and pace.
And yet United are STILL winning titles these days...
Mourinho's Chelsea came in and completely revolutionize the level of play and points you need to win the EPL.
Did he?
Chelsea finished with 95 points in 2004/05 (Mourino's first season in charge)
Chelsea finished with 91 points in 2005/06
Mourinho didn't really revolutionise anything. He broke the points record in 2004/05 by three points and then won the league the following season with the same points total that United achieved in 1999/2000. So finishing the league campaign with 90 points plus is nothing new is it? If thats the case, United broke the goals for record in the Premiership in 1999/2000 (97), can I say they revolutionised the Premiership as well?
United also finished as champions with 92 points in 1993/94...So Chelsea break that record by three points, Mourinho should be hailed as some sort of messiah? United finished the season with points total above 90 on two separate occasions before Mourinho came along...Chelsea merely improved on that figure...by three points.
I'd hardly call that a revolution or a massive shift...
ManU finished a distant second to Chelsea and still had enough points to have broken the EPL record prior to that.
WRONG.
In Mourinho's first season in charge, United finished third with 77 points. The Premiership points record at that time was 92 (which was held by United). In Mourinho's second season, United finished in second with 83 points, 8 points behind Chelsea (who had incidentally won the league with 91 points, the same total United won the title with in 1999/2000). On each of those occasions, United were nowhere near breaking the Premiership points record...oops.
Toppa:
You call losing five games in the league NOT being challenged?
Barcelona lost six games in Rijakaards Champions League winning season and still won the league by 12 points.
Barcelona lost five games in Guradiolas Champions League winning season and lost five games and won by a clear nine points.
In 2005-06, Barcelona won the league losing another six games. Where were Real Madrid? 12 points behind in second place.
The rule of thumb in La Liga is that if Real Madrid are unable to challenge, then Barcelona usually finish top with a large lead. If either are unable to challenge, then someone else wins La Liga (Valencia and Deportivo in the early 00's). Its a league whose outcome is dictated on the type of challenge each of those two sides mount. In fact, in the last 24-25 years only three sides (other than Barcelona and Real Madrid) have managed to win La Liga (Valencia twice, Athletico Madrid once and Deportivo La Coruna once)
You can't afford to lose five games and then win the league with a nine point gap in the Premiership.
And Real Madrid had clawed back within four points of Barcelona so you take your time with yuh outta timing talk.
Which means nothing in the grand scheme of things since they still managed to finish 9 points behind Barcelona. Its like getting a 'D' in an exam and saying "I failed, but I answered all my questions correctly at one point"...
Let us not forget how injury ridden Real Madrid's squad was last year and how many starters were side-lined for lengthy periods and a couple crucial others for the entire season.
Are you blaming injuries on the fact that Madrid conceeded a whopping 52 league goals? Five less than Recreativo who finished bottom of the table?
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Chestwig yuh is ah dunce pretending to be an intellect
Manchester United or Barcelona? Who's Treble Was Greater?
By David Arreola (Columnist)
The Verdict
In my humble opinion, I think the 2009 Barcelona Treble team was better than the 1999 Treble team of Manchester United. Barcelona were never really challenged, except for the Chelsea matches, as they ran through all competitions.
However, I believe that Manchester United's Treble season was the stuff of legends. Late goals, dramatic comebacks, and that unbelievable night at the Nou Camp, all of these things means to me that their Treble was greater. It is hard to differentiate between the two, as they are so very even.
This is exactly what i said... if you cannot comprehend that... same as the article.. look it right there.
But you is a rank c#nt so I done with you... IL+1
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The fact that all United/EPL fans will say that United's treble was better, and all Barca/La Liga will say that Barca's was better renders this discussion useless and lacking objectivity.
There are arguments on both sides and I maintain that neither of the achievements should take the shine off the other....They were both monumental.
It's one thing to say that Man U had stiffer competition, but that same argument can be used against them (i.e. Barca didn't face the same level of competition as Man U did, not because the level of competition was low, but because Barca themselves were that Great)...After all Barca did steamroll Man U in the CL final...A Man U squad that dominated England and coasted through much of the Champions' League and was being compared to the great treble winning side of 99....
The Barca of 2009 played a level of football that I've seen no other team in the modern game execute with that degree of consistency....and they did it with a style that football fans dream of. They simply demolished teams...
The Man U of 1999 won games in the manner that movies are made of...Even when they didn't play well they were resilient and found ways to eke out victories.
Whichever you consider greater is a matter of preference and as this thread indicates- biased allegiance.
this is the winning post of the thread so far..everybody else just turning into a la liga vs epl thing...
btw..barca's own was more impressive for me..because of how they dominated everything..
alot of the manu/ epl fans also show how little they know of la liga..
very few teams do the la liga copa del rey double.. plus to say barca were never challenged is a stretch..the 6-2 was compelling because at the time barca were in a slump and despite their troubles REAL put together a 19 game winning streak to get with 4 points of Barca..
on top of that Real scored first at the Bernabeu...and pulled the game back to 3-2 just after the half before barca just pulled away to a majestic win...
United' treble required more graft and was more "exciting"...but Barca's triumph was awesome in the way they accomplished what they did...but they are both great achievements..
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The team that won 3 trophys.
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Barca own because they beat and dominated the defending champions in the final ;D
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And now we come to filho...
Ball being played at an entire different level and pace.
And yet United are STILL winning titles these days...
what does that have to do with anything? I'm saying everyone is playing at a higher level. why so defensive?
Mourinho's Chelsea came in and completely revolutionize the level of play and points you need to win the EPL.
Did he?
Chelsea finished with 95 points in 2004/05 (Mourino's first season in charge)
Chelsea finished with 91 points in 2005/06
Mourinho didn't really revolutionise anything. He broke the points record in 2004/05 by three points and then won the league the following season with the same points total that United achieved in 1999/2000.
Good point. I got that wrong as I was going off memory and didn't check stats. I think I know why I got it mixed up. The second season that Chelsea won with 91 points was the season ManU finished with 83 points. 83 points was ManU's total the last time ManU won the EPL prior to that in 2002-2003. I must have heard a commentator say it would have been enough to win the title the last time they did and remembered it wrong. my bad. But Chelsea did change the game imo. Note I said they changed both the points total and the level of play. They did break the record and the kind of points total you need to win now is hovering around the 90 point mark. Before that, it was possible to win the EPL with high 70s or low 80s, as ManU did in 2002-2003 for example. Yuh eh seeing that again. The second part is far more subjective, but I dod think the standard of play in the EPL (and football on the whole) is far higher now than 10 years ago. But for the purpose of this discussion, it's fair to say the ManU team of 1999/2000 also took it to another level. Sorry I mixed up that statistic
So finishing the league campaign with 90 points plus is nothing new is it? If thats the case, United broke the goals for record in the Premiership in 1999/2000 (97), can I say they revolutionised the Premiership as well?
Of course. ManU has played an integral part in improving the quality of the EPL in a massive way.
United also finished as champions with 92 points in 1993/94...So Chelsea break that record by three points, Mourinho should be hailed as some sort of messiah? United finished the season with points total above 90 on two separate occasions before Mourinho came along...Chelsea merely improved on that figure...by three points.
I'd hardly call that a revolution or a massive shift...
ManU finished a distant second to Chelsea and still had enough points to have broken the EPL record prior to that.
WRONG.
yep. already explained why i got that wrong
In Mourinho's first season in charge, United finished third with 77 points.
Yeah..like I said..I was remembering the 2nd season when United's point total was enough to win the EPL the last time United had won it. my mistake
The Premiership points record at that time was 92 (which was held by United). In Mourinho's second season, United finished in second with 83 points, 8 points behind Chelsea (who had incidentally won the league with 91 points, the same total United won the title with in 1999/2000). On each of those occasions, United were nowhere near breaking the Premiership points record...oops.
Statistically I see where I was wrong, but still stand by the idea that the game is played at a higher level now than it was 10 years ago and believe that Mourinho's Chelsea introduced the last big shift in what it takes to win the EPL. You say just 3 points, but if it was just 3 points, someone would have broken it already. Mourinho's Chelsea broke the record. Every time a team does that, they make the previously unattainable, a reality and it pushes the rest to higher heights. Arsenal did it the season before with their unbeaten league season. ManU did it before that with the treble. I see all these are revolutionary moments in the EPL. BUt more importantly, I stand by the more important point I was trying to make..both trebles are equally impressive in my opinion.
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Man U had YORKE.
End of conversation