Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: capodetutticapi on October 27, 2009, 05:59:32 PM
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Mastermind behind 2002 killing spree faces execution on Nov. 10
updated 2:14 p.m. ET, Tues., Oct . 27, 2009
RICHMOND, Va. - The mastermind of the 2002 Washington, D.C.-area sniper attacks will die by lethal injection next month, Virginia officials said Tuesday.
John Allen Muhammad declined to choose between lethal injection and electrocution, so under state law the method defaults to lethal injection, Virginia Department of Corrections spokesman Larry Traylor said.
Muhammad is scheduled to be executed Nov. 10 for the October 2002 slaying of Dean Harold Meyers at a Manassas gas station during a string of shootings.
The three-week killing spree in October 2002 left 10 dead in Maryland, Virginia and the District of Columbia.
Muhammad and his teenage accomplice, Lee Boyd Malvo, were also suspected of shootings in several other states, including a killing in Louisiana and another in Alabama. Malvo is serving a life sentence in prison.
Muhammad's lawyers have asked the Virginia governor for clemency and plan to file an appeal with the U.S. Supreme Court early next month.
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funny just last night ah ,was wondering what going orn in this case .
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Capo look how you had me goggling this story. I just couldn't remember it :-\
But as soon as I saw the young fella Lee Boyd Malvo - the accomplice, all memories flew right back in. sigh!!
8 years on death row in the US - you sure to dead
15 years on death row in Trinidad - weight gain
steupses!!
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8 yrs yah kidding ,that wasnt so long ago was it ,seems like yesterday .
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dem is de kinda fellahs does need a lil torture just before they injeck him
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Was there ever a reason or any reason given why they went on a shooting spree?
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DAT had the Metro area bizzy. This story bring back some very ansy memories. Man get all kinda events cancel for his jackassness. 4 of dem shootings was too close for comfort.... (it eh funny eh) but the best was going to the gas station and thinking if yuh hear gun shot yuh quick enuff tuh dodge the bullet. Ruff times.
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Was there ever a reason or any reason given why they went on a shooting spree?
nothing concrete. but ah tink he ex-wife tort he was trying to get at her.(mite be wrong on this).
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DAT had the Metro area bizzy. This story bring back some very ansy memories. Man get all kinda events cancel for his jackassness. 4 of dem shootings was too close for comfort.... (it eh funny eh) but the best was going to the gas station and thinking if yuh hear gun shot yuh quick enuff tuh dodge the bullet. Ruff times.
More than a couple was close to home fuh me... whey dey kill de Haitian fella in DC was ah regular cooridor fuh me... den de schoolboy he shoot in MD was the nephew of a close co-worker at the time, and they brought him to the hospital where we worked... dat family was a mess.
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Was there ever a reason or any reason given why they went on a shooting spree?
Part of his testimony concerned Muhammad's complete, multiphase plan. His plan consisted of three phases in the Washington, DC and Baltimore, Maryland metro areas. Phase one consisted of meticulously planning, mapping, and practicing their locations around the DC area. This way after each shooting they would be able to quickly leave the area on a predetermined path, and move on to the next location. Muhammad's goal in Phase One was to kill six white people a day for 30 days. Malvo went on to describe how Phase One did not go as planned due to heavy traffic and the lack of a clear shot and/or getaway at different locations.
Phase Two was meant to be moved up to Baltimore. Malvo described how this phase was close to being implemented, but never was carried out. Phase Two was intended to begin by killing a pregnant woman by shooting her in the stomach. The next step would have been to shoot and kill a Baltimore City police officer. At the officer's funeral, there were to be created several improvised explosive devices. These explosives were intended to kill a large number of police, since many police would attend another officer's funeral.
The last phase was to take place very shortly after, if not during, Phase Two. The third phase was to extort several million dollars from the U.S. government. This money would be used to finance a larger plan: to travel north into Canada and recruit other effectively orphaned boys to use weapons and stealth, and send them out to commit shootings across the country.[6][7][8][9]
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Thanks Toppa :beermug:
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Capo look how you had me goggling this story. I just couldn't remember it :-\
But as soon as I saw the young fella Lee Boyd Malvo - the accomplice, all memories flew right back in. sigh!!
8 years on death row in the US - you sure to dead
15 years on death row in Trinidad - weight gain
steupses!!
This does seem somewhat expedited.
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Guys,
My son was at the school in Bowie when the sniper shot the lil boy. All yuh ain't know the pressure I was in. Run from work, highway block off, school cordoned off. Identification check. Man oh man!!!!!
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In de hood nobody was worried.
Ppl say if he come there ppl would shoot back.
I think city streets were not ideal for him to shoot somebody long-range and get away without being noticed.
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ah thought he was a war vet from iraq? no mention of his time in the service atall. ah hear some sociologist types worried about what coming back from afghanistan and iraq.
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Guys,
My son was at the school in Bowie when the sniper shot the lil boy. All yuh ain't know the pressure I was in. Run from work, highway block off, school cordoned off. Identification check. Man oh man!!!!!
Lawdddddddddddddddddd
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One was in the city. ... I used that gas station from time to time. It was 5 minutes (if that long) from my home. Also, the youth that live to fight another day, the spokesman for the family was a Board member for the agency where I work. TORK bout PRESSHA!!! >:(
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One was in the city. ... I used that gas station from time to time. It was 5 minutes (if that long) from my home. Also, the youth that live to fight another day, the spokesman for the family was a Board member for the agency where I work. TORK bout PRESSHA!!! >:(
REALLLLLLL PRESSUREEEEEEE.
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Damn- was living in the D.C. area at this time...scary times- strange I almost forgot about it....
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In de hood nobody was worried.
Ppl say if he come there ppl would shoot back.
I think city streets were not ideal for him to shoot somebody long-range and get away without being noticed.
Which hood was that?...man from Berry Farms, 14th and Clifton, all de way to Oxon Hill was quaking in dey boots. Scary times indeed, the majority of people in de DC metro area vehicles was running on fumes. Ah remember a few times fulling up and being startled by de sound of ah put put back firing.
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In de hood nobody was worried.
Ppl say if he come there ppl would shoot back.
I think city streets were not ideal for him to shoot somebody long-range and get away without being noticed.
Which hood was that?...man from Berry Farms, 14th and Clifton, all de way to Oxon Hill was quaking in dey boots. Scary times indeed, the majority of people in de DC metro area vehicles was running on fumes. Ah remember a few times fulling up and being startled by de sound of ah put put back firing.
Petworth to Shaw, ppl was limin on the street like normal.
If the pushers stay inside they cah make no sales I guess.
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It's on schedule they are going ahead with taking him out at 9pm EST
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It's on scheduled they are going ahead with taking him out at 9pm EST
:beermug:
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It's on scheduled they are going ahead with taking him out at 9pm EST
:beermug:
nobody wins when these things happen
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Quite an indictment of our species that we would first of all do this to our fellow man, then have no recourse but to do this to our fellow man.
all hail our superiority.
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nobody wins when these things happen
Try telling that to the surviving victims and their families.
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The Little boy in Bowie was a neighbor of my friend... Sgt Russell of PG county police... said the family was always out going and friendly. His kids played and attended the same school as the little boy..... Life snuffed out by a single selfish shot...
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nobody wins when these things happen
The execution is intended to punish the guilty.
Try telling that to the surviving victims and their families.
What are they gaining from this execution?
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all he have tuh do is think he getting he flu "SHOT"....bowdow
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The Little boy in Bowie was a neighbor of my friend... Sgt Russell of PG county police... said the family was always out going and friendly. His kids played and attended the same school as the little boy..... Life snuffed out by a single selfish shot...
Nah de li'l boy didn't die... I know the family in passing. Iran Brown is his name.
The execution is intended to punish the guilty.
As with incarceration... punishment is but one component of the penalty.
What are they gaining from this execution?
Something none of us likely will ever appreciate unless we have the misfortune of finding ourselves in their shoes... closure, in the least.
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Vengeance is not thine
Witnessing an execution doesn't always bring closure for the victims' survivors
By David Montgomery
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, November 10, 2009
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/09/AR2009110903493.html?hpid=topnews
Billy Smith stepped into the little room with the big window, seeking some mix of solace, satisfaction, justice, closure. He wasn't exactly sure. But he knew he had to be there. On the other side of the glass, strapped to a gurney with IV tubes in his arms, was the man who had murdered his father.
Smith had been just 18, fresh out of high school, when Willie Lloyd Turner gunned down Jack Smith during a robbery of the family jewelry store in 1978. After the trial and the appeals and the relentless legal maneuvering, the son was nearing middle age when, finally, in the spring of 1995, it was the killer's turn to die.
"Initially, I would have probably pulled the trigger and slept like a baby," Smith said recently. But the years had mellowed his feelings a bit. "I just wanted to see it over. It had been such a struggle for such a long time."
Too tense to sit, he stood near the glass, riveted, staring. Turner said only, "When will it start? Will I feel it?" The chemicals began to flow. Smith quickly realized he was unprepared for the experience of seeing a killer put to death. Unprepared to be so . . . underwhelmed.
"Within two minutes it's over," he says. "He doesn't flinch, he doesn't move, he goes to sleep. Then they say, 'Okay, it's time to go.' . . . The whole thing is very anticlimactic."
That's the first thing Smith would tell relatives of the victims of John Allen Muhammad who are journeying from as far as California and Idaho to witness the Washington sniper's execution by lethal injection scheduled for Tuesday night: The execution of a killer can be just a little disappointing.
'It helped to a degree'
The same note of ambivalence is what you tend to hear from other victims' relatives who've been there -- watching with tragic eyes from behind the glass in the lonely little witness room, where all is not resolved. They feel better. A little. Not much. It's not the better they thought they would feel. They can hardly explain why. They exit the room with most of the ache they carried in.
"It's not like, 'Whoopee!' " says Dale Alexander. "It's not like a ballgame, we won, home run."
Her daughter, Lisa Alexander Crider, 23, the mother of a 5-year-old boy, was raped and shot in the face with a shotgun on the banks of the James River on Mother's Day 1997. The killer, Brandon W. Hedrick, reportedly an acquaintance, was executed in the electric chair in 2006.
"It helped to see the completion," Alexander says. "It helped to a degree."
Smith and one of his sisters were the first in modern Virginia history to make that trip -- the very first to accept the commonwealth's invitation to victims' relatives to be in the audience for the last act.
What did he expect? He's still not certain. Something . . . more, after all the grief and loss and lawyers. A bang, not a whimper.
"If I had to compare it with the murder of my father, it was a very easy and peaceful death for Willie Turner," Smith says.
Turner barged into Smith Jewelers in the Tidewater town of Franklin. Jack Smith filled bags with money and jewelry. Then Turner shot him in the head and pumped two more rounds into his body after it hit the floor. Now Billy Smith, 49, runs the store, with his father looking down from a portrait on the wall.
"I don't think these people will get out of it what they expect," Smith says.
And yet, he adds: "I don't mean they shouldn't want to do it. Because I would do it again."
"I was relieved that it was over," he continues. "I was happy that justice was done, finally. . . . I would not have felt the same if I had not witnessed it. But watching it the way I saw it, I don't think made [the loss of my father] any easier. Sometimes I think I have more anger because it was so easy for [Turner]."
'I did my part'
Virginia has put to death 77 men since Smith witnessed Turner's execution. Relatives of the condemned are not allowed. More often than not, family members of victims have wanted to make the trip to the "death house" in the Greensville Correctional Center, in the little town of Jarratt, near the North Carolina border. But it's not for everyone. The 1994 execution of Timothy Wilson Spencer, the "Southside Strangler," was the first time Virginia began permitting victims' relatives to witness. No one took that opportunity.
The change in procedure was initiated in 1994 by then-Del. Robert F. McDonnell -- now the governor-elect -- whose proposed legislation actually went down to defeat by one vote in the state Senate. Supporters said bearing witness was a privilege owed to the relatives; critics said the idea was ghoulish and vengeful. Gov. George Allen enacted the provision by executive order.
Granting access to victims' relatives became common across the country in the 1980s and 1990s with the rise of the victim-rights movement. The 2001 execution of Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh was witnessed by more than 200 survivors and victims' relatives via closed-circuit television. Maryland also allows such witnesses. A parallel movement of victims' relatives against the death penalty also has grown, and members sometimes join vigils in protest of executions.
Linda Norton was against the death penalty until 1991, when Johnile DuBois beat and shot her mentally disabled brother, Philip C. Council, 39, in a convenience store in Portsmouth, because her brother couldn't get the cash drawer open fast enough. Norton and other relatives watched DuBois' execution in 1998.
"I wouldn't say it made me feel better," Norton says. "Did it make me feel worse? . . . It wasn't anything I was looking forward to seeing. It was something I felt I had to do. . . . It's to say, I was there, I saw it happen. I did my part to make sure whatever was supposed to happen, did happen."
The private room
Virginia's death house has two rooms for witnesses. One is for state officials, attorneys, clergy, reporters and volunteer citizen witnesses not connected to the crime, whose presence is also called for under Virginia law. The condemned person can see into this room.
The second room is for relatives of victims. It's sparsely furnished with just a few chairs. This room is darkened, so the witnesses can see out but the killer can't see in. Corrections officials don't publicly identify these witnesses, to protect their privacy.
Muhammad, 48, and his partner Lee Boyd Malvo, 24 -- now serving a life sentence -- killed 10 people during their 2002 rampage in the Washington area. With so many victims, the witness room may be packed.
"Space is limited," says Larry Traylor, director of communications for the Virginia Department of Corrections. "We're looking at victims from all over the country. . . . We're working with all the families to come up with a plan where the families certainly can be represented, maybe not in the volume of family members they would like to have there."
Elizabeth Majors couldn't sit -- she felt compelled to stand inside the little room with a view in the summer of 2008. When the fateful moment came, the feisty 72-year-old posted herself at the window, watching closely as the chemical cocktail flowed into Christopher Scott Emmett. Seven years earlier, in Danville, Emmett had beaten to death her son John Langley with a brass lamp as Langley lay sleeping. The two were co-workers for a roofing company, and Langley sometimes invited Emmett home for meals. They were sharing a motel room on an out-of-town job. After the murder, Emmett took $100 from Langley's wallet to buy crack.
"I wanted to see that he was put to death with no ifs, ands or buts about it," Majors says. "When he breathed his last breath and they pulled the curtain, I said, 'Thank God he's gone to hell and got it over with.' "
Another son, Gene Langley, stood beside his mother in the witness room. "My brother would want me standing there watching [Emmett] die," he says.
He goes on, in that ambivalent way of the witnesses: "That was our closure, knowing that he was not alive. But it didn't bring my brother back. It didn't do nothing."
Nothing, and yet maybe something: "When it was done, we was more at ease," Majors adds. "We knew things had been accomplished."
Last looks
Majors still cries when she thinks about her Johnny, who used to share the double-wide trailer with her in Valentines.
Alexander shows pictures of her murdered daughter, Lisa, to her new baby great-grandson, the son of that long-ago 5-year-old boy who grew up without a mother.
Norton misses her baby brother Philip, and grieves, too, for her late mother who never got over the murder of her youngest, most vulnerable child.
The witnesses contemplate the succeeding generations of survivors who will follow their own heavy footsteps into the little room in Jarratt. Tuesday night, the imperfectly fulfilling ritual unfolds again.
"When they get to Jarratt, and they watch him die, some of them are going to feel pressure lift right off of them," Langley says. "I hope they do get some closure. Bless their hearts, I really do."
It depends, says Billy Smith.
"They might come out of it saying, 'Dammit, they shot my mother, father, daughter, son, brother, sister down like a dog at a gas station, for nothing, and he just went to sleep.'
"Others may come out of it and say: 'I saw justice done.' "
Staff researcher Madonna Lebling contributed to this report.
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Thanks Bitter nice read. If u could kill dem fellas asap it will help but d yrs dat pass does mellow d most hateful person who want 2 hang d person in d square when it happen.
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Bitter I'm not sure what your post is supposed to prove... for every one person who says the execution doesn't bring closure you could probably find two or three who will say that it absolutely does. One size does not fit all.
Also, that article doesn't discuss the emotions of having them executed... just the emotions of witnessing the execution. Which can be underwhelming from what they are saying. However I bet the emotions would be different if they did not witness the actual execution (and the accompanying let down). Just the knowledge that "justice was served" would be gratifying, I'm sure.
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Not trying to prove anything.
It's an interesting article and relevant to the thread.
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Not trying to prove anything.
It's an interesting article and relevant to the thread.
That it is... will be even more relevant in about 3 hours.
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Victims, relatives talk of sniper Muhammad ahead of his execution
RICHMOND, Va. - Some ache for revenge, others simply for justice. There is frustration, too, and defiance.
For those wounded by the D.C. snipers and for the relatives of those killed, the emotions leading up to the execution of the mastermind behind the 2002 attacks vary as widely as those who found themselves in the cross hairs.
John Allen Muhammad, 48, is set to die by injection in a Virginia prison on Tuesday, seven years after he and his teenage accomplice terrorized the area in and around the nation's capital for three weeks.
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Some family members can't wait to see Muhammad take his final breath. Others plan to make the trip to Virginia but never step foot on prison grounds.
And there are those who plan to spend the night at home with their families, satisfied that Muhammad is paying for what he's done but indifferent as to how it will happen.
'Last chapter'
For Nelson M. Rivera and Marion Lewis, watching Muhammad's execution will be the closest they will ever come to revenge.
"I feel like it's going to be the last chapter of this book and I want to see what his expression on his face is. And I want to see if he says anything," the 38-year-old Rivera said. "I want to see his face and see how he likes that — confronting his death."
Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera, who was Rivera's wife and Lewis' daughter, was killed as she vacuumed her van at a Kensington, Md., gas station.
Rivera, a Honduran immigrant who recently became a U.S. citizen, has remarried and had two more children since Lori was killed, leaving behind a 2-year-old daughter, Jocelin. He now works as a public-schools groundskeeper in the suburbs of Sacramento, Calif.
Still, "there is not one day I don't remember what happened and I don't remember my wife. This is going to be with me the rest of my life," Rivera said.
Lewis, 57, a laid-off construction worker, said he would like to tell Muhammad how losing his 25-year-old daughter devastated their family.
"For the hurt, the pain that he's caused my family, I'd like to be his executioner, period," Lewis said.
'Payment of his debt'
Robert Meyers takes some solace in knowing that Muhammad's execution is out of his hands.
He and his wife, Lori, plan to be in the witness booth, but not out of any bloodthirsty lust to watch his brother's killer meet his maker. Rather, he considers it justice being served, a sentence being carried out.
"The reason why this life is going to be taken has everything to do with choices that he made and the process that those choices took him through," said Meyers, 56, of Perkiomenville, Pa.
Executions in Virginia, home of the nation's second-busiest death chamber, usually are intimate affairs observed by a handful of lawyers, prison officials, the mandated six citizen witnesses, a few reporters and family members.
But the sheer number of victims — 10 killed and three injured in and around the nation's capital alone — has the state scrambling to accommodate all the people entitled to watch. Corrections officials are tightlipped about the arrangements, though relatives say each victim's family was offered two spots in the roughly 10-by-10 witness booth.
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Read more news from across the U.S.
Meyers said he owed it to his brother, Dean Harold Meyers, to be there and that he also wanted to be there for other victims' families.
Dean Meyers, 53, a Vietnam vet and civil engineer, was the youngest of four brothers. He was shot in the head while filling up at a Manassas, Va., gas station. Muhammad's teenage accomplice, Lee Boyd Malvo, later bragged to police, laughing that Dean Meyers "was hit good. Dead immediately."
It was Meyers' murder that sent Muhammad to death row.
"We're expecting justice being done, but not from a vengeful standpoint," Robert Meyers said. "It is more about the payment of his debt to society, because that was decided by others."
Charles Moore believes Muhammad deserves to die, and he's frustrated that Malvo will not be on a gurney beside him.
"The only thing that would give me closure would be if I knew that Lee Boyd Malvo was being punished properly," said Moore, 80, of Gainesville, Fla.
Malvo, who was 17 at the time of the shootings, was convicted and sentenced to life in prison for killing Linda Franklin, a 47-year-old FBI analyst who was shot as she and her husband loaded supplies at a Home Depot in Falls Church, Va.
"I don't see how someone can plan and plot and commit murder, one right after the other, and get off with just life in prison, I don't care what their age is," Moore said.
Moore, a retired bioengineer at the University of Florida, said his daughter used to call him every morning "to tell me to get out of bed and start chasing my wife around the house or something."
He struggles with Parkinson's disease now, and says he can't afford the trip to Virginia to watch the execution. He's not really sure he would make the trip if he could, though.
"When my daughter was first killed, if I would have had a gun I would have been willing to kill him but right now I don't know how I feel," Moore said. "I don't want him turned loose on society, that's for sure."
'Put it behind me'
Caroline Seawell has refused to live the last seven years as a victim.
Sure, her ribs are deformed and there's a piece of mesh covering a hole in her diaphragm. But Seawell has been blessed with no major medical problems since a sniper's bullet raced into her back and through a handful of organs as she loaded a scarecrow and other Halloween decorations into her minivan.
She and her family moved to South Carolina not long after the shooting outside a Fredericksburg, Va., Michael's craft store. Her youngest son, now 11, doesn't even know about the shooting.
"I've been really good about being able to kind of just put it behind me," Seawell said. "I've been able to just continue on with my life."
In that defiant spirit, Seawell said she will not travel to Virginia to watch Muhammad take his last breath. He deserves to die for what he's done, she said, but after watching both parents die from cancer, she has no desire to witness another death.
"There was enough killing already with all of us," she said.
If anything, Seawell says the shooting has made her a much stronger person. If given the chance, she'd like to tell Muhammad and Malvo just that.
"They didn't do what they set out to do because they haven't devastated my life," she said. "I've been able to move on and continue and raise my children, which is exactly what I wanted to do.
"I don't want them to have any satisfaction out of the fact that they shot me."
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It's on scheduled they are going ahead with taking him out at 9pm EST
:beermug:
nobody wins when these things happen
I feelin yuh davy! one of the best posts ever.
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It's on scheduled they are going ahead with taking him out at 9pm EST
:beermug:
nobody wins when these things happen
:beermug: :beermug:
I feelin yuh davy! one of the best posts ever.
personally i wud never be a fan of anyone having their life snuffed out whether illegal or human-legal means..dis world is a sad place
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nobody wins when these things happen
Try telling that to the surviving victims and their families.
The question is did the (families) win though?
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CNN.com
-- John Allen Muhammad, the mastermind of the Washington-area sniper attacks in 2002, has been executed, official says.
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CNN.com
-- John Allen Muhammad, the mastermind of the Washington-area sniper attacks in 2002, has been executed, official says.
THEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ENDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
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Supposition
A society that imposes life incarceration for members that exhibit extreme anti-social behaviour, such as murder, reflects a trait of a truly civilized society.
The costs of said incarceration is a tax that a civilized society should be willing to pay to separate those who commit atrocious acts, from the rest of the group.
When a society believes it is acceptable to kill a member of the group, I suggest that that society still has a long way to go before true civilization is attained.
Background
My wife's two first cousins were brutally stabbed and slashed to death several years ago (in Toronto). The two men were eventually caught and are serving what the Canadian Justice System calls life imprisonment, even though one of them is still appealing his case. In the aftermath of the murders and the subsequent trials, I was initially surprised that the notions of revenge and the death penalty was never articulated amongst the family members. Now I think I understand. The hurt and loss will never go away, but I think most members of our family chose to appreciate what we have then dwell on what we lost. Obviously, not all people will believe this to be an appropriate response. It is not a simple binary decision.
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that's a rap.the real judgement started lastnite at 9:11.
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The question is did the (families) win though?
Why yuh doh ask them?
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The question is did the (families) win though?
Why yuh doh ask them?
hahahahahahahahahaha
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The question is did the (families) win though?
Why yuh doh ask them?
You proven to be ah real Trini wid that reply dey!
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The question, posed to 438 men and three women since Texas resumed executions Dec. 7, 1982, is simple.
"Do you wish to make a last statement?"
Last Statements (http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/executedoffenders.htm)
The DC sniper did not say any last words, but here are some quotes from the 438 men and three women:
Karla Faye Tucker #777 Last Statement: Yes sir, I would like to say to all of you – the Thornton family and Jerry Dean’s family that I am so sorry. I hope God will give you peace with this. Baby, I love you. Ron, give Peggy a hug for me. Everybody has been so good to me. I love all of you very much. I am going to be face to face with Jesus now. Warden Baggett, thank all of you so much. You have been so good to me. I love all of you very much. I will see you all when you get there. I will wait for you.
"Well, Mom," Marcus Cotton said March 3, 2004, "sometimes it works out like this."
"Where's Mr. Marino's mother? Did you get my letter? Just wanted to let you know, I sincerely meant everything I wrote. I am sorry for the pain. I am sorry for the life I took from you," Gerald Mitchell said on Oct. 22, 2001.
"The only statement I want to make is that I am an innocent man — convicted of a crime I did not commit. I have been persecuted for 12 years for something I did not do. From God's dust I came and to dust I will return — so the earth shall become my throne. I gotta go, road dog. I love you, Gabby," Cameron Todd Willingham said in his Feb. 17, 2004, final statement that ended with profanity.
"Where's my stunt double when you need one?" asked Vincent Gutierrez on March 28, 2007.
"What is about to transpire in a few minutes is wrong. However, we as human beings do make mistakes and errors. This execution is one of those wrongs, yet doesn't mean our whole system of justice is wrong. Therefore, I would forgive all who have taken part in any way in my death."
Ronald Clark O'Bryan, executed March 31, 1984, for using cyanide-laced Halloween candy to kill his son Timothy in 1974.
"You call me a cold-blooded murderer. I didn't tie anyone to a stretcher. I didn't pump any poison into anybody's veins from behind a locked door. ... I call this and your society a bunch of cold-blooded murderers."
Henry Porter, July 9, 1985, for the 1975 shooting death of Fort Worth police officer Henry Mailloux.
"Let's do it man. Lock and load. Ain't life a (expletive deleted)."
G.W. Green, Nov. 12, 1991, for the 1976 shooting death of John Denson, a Montgomery County juvenile probation officer, during a burglary.
"I just want everyone to know that the prosecutor and Bill Scott are sorry sons of bitches."
Edward Ellis, March 3, 1992, for 1983 suffocation death of Bertie Elizabeth Eakens, 74, of Houston, during a robbery.
"I am innocent, innocent, innocent. Make no mistake about this; I owe society nothing. Continue the struggle for human rights, helping those who are innocent. ... Something very wrong is taking place tonight. May God bless you all. I am ready."
Leonel Torres Herrera, May 12, 1993, for the 1981 shooting death of Los Fresnos police officer Enrique Carrisalez.
"I want to say that the bad evil man I was when I came to death row 13 years ago is no more – by the power of God; Jesus Christ; God Almighty; Holy Spirit, he has transformed me as a new creature of Christ."
Herman Clark, Dec. 6, 1994, for the 1981 shooting death of Joseph McClain of Houston during a robbery.
"First off, to the Rosenbaum family, to Cindy, to Scott, to everyone, I just want to say I have nothing but love for you. And I mean that from the deepest part. I can only tell you that Clark did not die in vain. I don't mean to offend you by saying that, but what I mean by that is, through his death, he led this man to God. I have nothing but love for you."
Troy Dale Farris, Jan. 13, 1999, for the 1983 shooting death of Tarrant County Sheriff's Deputy Clark Murell Rosenbaum Jr. during a drug buy.
"I'm an innocent black man that is being murdered. This is a lynching that is happening in America tonight. There's overwhelming and compelling evidence of my defense that has never been heard in any court of America. ... They are murdering me tonight."
Gary Graham, June 22, 2000, for the 1981 shooting death of Bobby Grant of Tucson, Ariz., during a robbery outside of a supermarket in Houston.
"To all of the racist white folks in America that hate black folks and to all of the black folks in America that hate themselves: the infamous words of my famous legendary brother, Matt Turner, 'Y'all kiss my black ass.' Let's do it."
Brian Roberson, Aug, 9, 2000 for the 1986, stabbing death of James Louis Boots, 79, during a Dallas burglary.
"First I would like to speak to the victims' family. ... You guys know that I am guilty and I am sorry for what I have done. ... And I want you to know that Christina, she did not suffer as much as you think she did. I promise you that. I give you my word. I know you guys want to know where the rest of her remains are. I put her remains in the Trinity River."
Jason Eric Massey, April 3, 2001, for the 1993 shooting deaths of James Brian King, 14, and Christina Benjamin, 13, in Ellis County.
"The only thing I want to say is that I appreciate the hospitality that you guys have shown me and the respect; and the last meal was really good."
James Collier, Dec. 11, 2002, for the 1995 shooting deaths of Gwendolyn Joy Reed and Timmy Reed during a kidnapping attempt in Wichita Falls.
"I charge the people of the jury, trial judge, the prosecutor that cheated to get this conviction. I charge each and every one of you with the murder of an innocent man. ... You will answer to your maker when God has found out that you executed an innocent man ... Go ahead Warden, murder me. Jesus take me home."
Roy Pippin, March 29, 2007, for the 1994 shooting deaths of Elmer Buitrago and Fabio Buitrago during a Houston kidnapping related to missing drug money.
'Uh, I don't know, um, I don't know what to say. I don't know. I didn't know anybody was there. Howdy."
strong>James Clark, April 11, 2007, for the 1993 rape and robbery during murder of Shari Crews, 17, of Denton.
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saw de documentary lastnite...city of fear,beltway sniper....this fella really had the devil in he ass.he kill every race,gender.he even shot a 13 year old boy,he survive.
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The question, posed to 438 men and three women since Texas resumed executions Dec. 7, 1982, is simple.
"Do you wish to make a last statement?"
Last Statements (http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/executedoffenders.htm)
The DC sniper did not say any last words, but here are some quotes from the 438 men and three women:
Karla Faye Tucker #777 Last Statement: Yes sir, I would like to say to all of you – the Thornton family and Jerry Dean’s family that I am so sorry. I hope God will give you peace with this. Baby, I love you. Ron, give Peggy a hug for me. Everybody has been so good to me. I love all of you very much. I am going to be face to face with Jesus now. Warden Baggett, thank all of you so much. You have been so good to me. I love all of you very much. I will see you all when you get there. I will wait for you.
"Well, Mom," Marcus Cotton said March 3, 2004, "sometimes it works out like this."
"Where's Mr. Marino's mother? Did you get my letter? Just wanted to let you know, I sincerely meant everything I wrote. I am sorry for the pain. I am sorry for the life I took from you," Gerald Mitchell said on Oct. 22, 2001.
"The only statement I want to make is that I am an innocent man — convicted of a crime I did not commit. I have been persecuted for 12 years for something I did not do. From God's dust I came and to dust I will return — so the earth shall become my throne. I gotta go, road dog. I love you, Gabby," Cameron Todd Willingham said in his Feb. 17, 2004, final statement that ended with profanity.
"Where's my stunt double when you need one?" asked Vincent Gutierrez on March 28, 2007.
"What is about to transpire in a few minutes is wrong. However, we as human beings do make mistakes and errors. This execution is one of those wrongs, yet doesn't mean our whole system of justice is wrong. Therefore, I would forgive all who have taken part in any way in my death."
Ronald Clark O'Bryan, executed March 31, 1984, for using cyanide-laced Halloween candy to kill his son Timothy in 1974.
"You call me a cold-blooded murderer. I didn't tie anyone to a stretcher. I didn't pump any poison into anybody's veins from behind a locked door. ... I call this and your society a bunch of cold-blooded murderers."
Henry Porter, July 9, 1985, for the 1975 shooting death of Fort Worth police officer Henry Mailloux.
"Let's do it man. Lock and load. Ain't life a (expletive deleted)."
G.W. Green, Nov. 12, 1991, for the 1976 shooting death of John Denson, a Montgomery County juvenile probation officer, during a burglary.
"I just want everyone to know that the prosecutor and Bill Scott are sorry sons of bitches."
Edward Ellis, March 3, 1992, for 1983 suffocation death of Bertie Elizabeth Eakens, 74, of Houston, during a robbery.
"I am innocent, innocent, innocent. Make no mistake about this; I owe society nothing. Continue the struggle for human rights, helping those who are innocent. ... Something very wrong is taking place tonight. May God bless you all. I am ready."
Leonel Torres Herrera, May 12, 1993, for the 1981 shooting death of Los Fresnos police officer Enrique Carrisalez.
"I want to say that the bad evil man I was when I came to death row 13 years ago is no more – by the power of God; Jesus Christ; God Almighty; Holy Spirit, he has transformed me as a new creature of Christ."
Herman Clark, Dec. 6, 1994, for the 1981 shooting death of Joseph McClain of Houston during a robbery.
"First off, to the Rosenbaum family, to Cindy, to Scott, to everyone, I just want to say I have nothing but love for you. And I mean that from the deepest part. I can only tell you that Clark did not die in vain. I don't mean to offend you by saying that, but what I mean by that is, through his death, he led this man to God. I have nothing but love for you."
Troy Dale Farris, Jan. 13, 1999, for the 1983 shooting death of Tarrant County Sheriff's Deputy Clark Murell Rosenbaum Jr. during a drug buy.
"I'm an innocent black man that is being murdered. This is a lynching that is happening in America tonight. There's overwhelming and compelling evidence of my defense that has never been heard in any court of America. ... They are murdering me tonight."
Gary Graham, June 22, 2000, for the 1981 shooting death of Bobby Grant of Tucson, Ariz., during a robbery outside of a supermarket in Houston.
"To all of the racist white folks in America that hate black folks and to all of the black folks in America that hate themselves: the infamous words of my famous legendary brother, Matt Turner, 'Y'all kiss my black ass.' Let's do it."
Brian Roberson, Aug, 9, 2000 for the 1986, stabbing death of James Louis Boots, 79, during a Dallas burglary.
"First I would like to speak to the victims' family. ... You guys know that I am guilty and I am sorry for what I have done. ... And I want you to know that Christina, she did not suffer as much as you think she did. I promise you that. I give you my word. I know you guys want to know where the rest of her remains are. I put her remains in the Trinity River."
Jason Eric Massey, April 3, 2001, for the 1993 shooting deaths of James Brian King, 14, and Christina Benjamin, 13, in Ellis County.
"The only thing I want to say is that I appreciate the hospitality that you guys have shown me and the respect; and the last meal was really good."
James Collier, Dec. 11, 2002, for the 1995 shooting deaths of Gwendolyn Joy Reed and Timmy Reed during a kidnapping attempt in Wichita Falls.
"I charge the people of the jury, trial judge, the prosecutor that cheated to get this conviction. I charge each and every one of you with the murder of an innocent man. ... You will answer to your maker when God has found out that you executed an innocent man ... Go ahead Warden, murder me. Jesus take me home."
Roy Pippin, March 29, 2007, for the 1994 shooting deaths of Elmer Buitrago and Fabio Buitrago during a Houston kidnapping related to missing drug money.
'Uh, I don't know, um, I don't know what to say. I don't know. I didn't know anybody was there. Howdy."
strong>James Clark, April 11, 2007, for the 1993 rape and robbery during murder of Shari Crews, 17, of Denton.
kILL DEY MODDER c**t. yUH READ THE SUMMARY OF WHAT DESE f**kERS DO/
oNE f**kER PULL UP AT A RED light, look over and see ah 22 year old chinee girl he say :I going and rob she...pull out a gun and blast she temple, dey find he c**t driving she car blood soaked pants and brain matter in he hair...fry dey c**t!
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saw de documentary lastnite...city of fear,beltway sniper....this fella really had the devil in he ass.he kill every race,gender.he even shot a 13 year old boy,he survive.
yeah ras, they crossed the line once they start with chirren. on the show they said that malvo is in isolation 23 hours a day and he have 1 hour outside in a cage. damn, i wonder what thoughts cross his mind now.
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saw de documentary lastnite...city of fear,beltway sniper....this fella really had the devil in he ass.he kill every race,gender.he even shot a 13 year old boy,he survive.
yeah ras, they crossed the line once they start with chirren. on the show they said that malvo is in isolation 23 hours a day and he have 1 hour outside in a cage. damn, i wonder what thoughts cross his mind now.
Taking of any life is crossing the line fari.
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kILL DEY MODDER c**t. yUH READ THE SUMMARY OF WHAT DESE f**kERS DO/
oNE f**kER PULL UP AT A RED light, look over and see ah 22 year old chinee girl he say :I going and rob she...pull out a gun and blast she temple, dey find he c**t driving she car blood soaked pants and brain matter in he hair...fry dey c**t!
[/quote]
keep them in jail forever ...
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saw de documentary lastnite...city of fear,beltway sniper....this fella really had the devil in he ass.he kill every race,gender.he even shot a 13 year old boy,he survive.
yeah ras, they crossed the line once they start with chirren. on the show they said that malvo is in isolation 23 hours a day and he have 1 hour outside in a cage. damn, i wonder what thoughts cross his mind now.
Taking of any life is crossing the line fari.
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saw de documentary lastnite...city of fear,beltway sniper....this fella really had the devil in he ass.he kill every race,gender.he even shot a 13 year old boy,he survive.
yeah ras, they crossed the line once they start with chirren. on the show they said that malvo is in isolation 23 hours a day and he have 1 hour outside in a cage. damn, i wonder what thoughts cross his mind now.
Taking of any life is crossing the line fari.
While putting down some serious wuk on ah piece ah KFC thigh, mukumsplau made TriniCana sigh and cuss out the poultry gods......"damn you sons of bitches/fackin bastards i say"....damn you!
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saw de documentary lastnite...city of fear,beltway sniper....this fella really had the devil in he ass.he kill every race,gender.he even shot a 13 year old boy,he survive.
yeah ras, they crossed the line once they start with chirren. on the show they said that malvo is in isolation 23 hours a day and he have 1 hour outside in a cage. damn, i wonder what thoughts cross his mind now.
Taking of any life is crossing the line fari.
While putting down some serious wuk on ah piece ah KFC thigh, mukumsplau made TriniCana sigh and cuss out the poultry gods......"damn you sons of bitches/fackin bastards i say"....damn you!
Cana, eating KFC in Trini is OK but not so in Canada. Hope yuh doh get sick tonight. If you do, I does make house calls
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pecan ya mad?
you wha mrs pecan to crack my neck? ah see she already and she look like she could fight.
meh intestines could handle anything.....dis afternoon ah come ein from Minnesota and i ain't do grocery for bout 2 weeks, so dat that piece ah chicken was dinner/supper. ah actually forget how the Trini KFC does taste. :-\
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Another reason why I have no sympathy for people who commit murder...especially, especially when the victim is a child. Hang them high OR inject they ass, I don't care!
Ask me why???
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/16/north.carolina.missing.girl/index.html
Girl's body found in North Carolina, police sayBy Gabriel Falcon, CNN
November 16, 2009 2:42 p.m. EST
Shaniya Davis, 5, was reported missing last week. Authorities said they found her body Monday.
(CNN) -- The body of a missing 5-year-old girl has been found in North Carolina, police said Monday.
Theresa Chance, public information officer of the Fayetteville Police Department, confirmed the girl's body was discovered.
A statement from Fayetteville Police Chief Tom Bergamine said positive identification was being sought for the recovered body. In a separate e-mail to CNN, Fayetteville police said the body found was that of the missing girl, Shaniya Davis.
About 200 people had been searching for the child's body after "reliable information" indicated that she might be dead, according to Fayetteville police.
Searchers located the body shortly after 1 p.m. ET, Chance told reporters. People at the scene, including searchers and police officers, were "torn up," she said.
The search focused on land near a roadway because "reliable information received that the body of Shaniya Davis may have been dumped there," a police statement said.
Investigators had been searching for Shaniya for several days.
Police have charged the girl's mother, Antoinette Nicole Davis, with trafficking and other offenses, authorities said. Davis was "prostituting her child," Chance said.
Other charges against the mother include felony child abuse, prostitution and filing a false police report, according to the Fayetteville Police Department.
The mother told police last week that the child vanished from their mobile home in Fayetteville.
Hotel surveillance video taken around the same time Shaniya was reported missing showed the girl with a man identified as Mario Andrette McNeill. He was charged with first-degree kidnapping.
Police said they dropped kidnapping charges against another man, Clarence Coe, who was arrested Thursday in connection with the case.
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Geez.
I was so sure they would have found that little girl alive and well.
I'm curious as to why they dropped charges against Coe when he was the one seen taking the child from the trailer park in his car.
We should avoid rushing to judgment against the mother on that charge of prostituting her child... I'm not sure how they would conclude that when the child didn't live with her and was only visiting. Only evidence giving rise to that charge would seem to come from would-be "johns"... and at this point everybody is a suspect and as such likely to give up their mother if it means them getting off the hook.
Mr. McNeil has a lot of explaining to do.
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Geez.
I was so sure they would have found that little girl alive and well.
I'm curious as to why they dropped charges against Coe when he was the one seen taking the child from the trailer park in his car.
We should avoid rushing to judgment against the mother on that charge of prostituting her child... I'm not sure how they would conclude that when the child didn't live with her and was only visiting. Only evidence giving rise to that charge would seem to come from would-be "johns"... and at this point everybody is a suspect and as such likely to give up their mother if it means them getting off the hook.
Mr. McNeil has a lot of explaining to do.
I was following this story since Sunday morning, and I felt they will find this child because I kept saying family disrupt. So I really didn't assume the worst. Today in board meeting I in the back listening to them blah blah and my cell phone buzz. I took a glance at it and first thing to read CNN breaking news "The body of missing 5-year-old Shaniya Davis has been found near Sanford, North Carolina, police say". One anger just took over my senses that I heard absolutely nothing for a full 4 mins from those talking in front. What can a 5 year old child do to provoke you into killing her? Bakes I haven't reach the stage of saying 'who did it' because I'm sure they still trying to patch some pieces together. i won't be surprised if this child was raped, sodomized and tortured. Eh 5 years old.
As you said, I did read about the mother prostituting her child, but I myself can't see that as a possibility because the child was just visiting. But with the 2 photos of the man holding the bare feet child entering the elevator, have me second guessing that prostitution angle.
And now another CNN.com headline Oklahoma doctor held in death of son, 9
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/16/oklahoma.child.slaying/index.html
And then people saying life imprisonment? Nah some deaths are justified!! Swing dey ass man!
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Another reason why I have no sympathy for people who commit murder...especially, especially when the victim is a child. Hang them high OR inject they ass, I don't care!
Ask me why???
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/16/north.carolina.missing.girl/index.html
Girl's body found in North Carolina, police sayBy Gabriel Falcon, CNN
November 16, 2009 2:42 p.m. EST
Shaniya Davis, 5, was reported missing last week. Authorities said they found her body Monday.
(CNN) -- The body of a missing 5-year-old girl has been found in North Carolina, police said Monday.
Theresa Chance, public information officer of the Fayetteville Police Department, confirmed the girl's body was discovered.
A statement from Fayetteville Police Chief Tom Bergamine said positive identification was being sought for the recovered body. In a separate e-mail to CNN, Fayetteville police said the body found was that of the missing girl, Shaniya Davis.
About 200 people had been searching for the child's body after "reliable information" indicated that she might be dead, according to Fayetteville police.
Searchers located the body shortly after 1 p.m. ET, Chance told reporters. People at the scene, including searchers and police officers, were "torn up," she said.
The search focused on land near a roadway because "reliable information received that the body of Shaniya Davis may have been dumped there," a police statement said.
Investigators had been searching for Shaniya for several days.
Police have charged the girl's mother, Antoinette Nicole Davis, with trafficking and other offenses, authorities said. Davis was "prostituting her child," Chance said.
Other charges against the mother include felony child abuse, prostitution and filing a false police report, according to the Fayetteville Police Department.
The mother told police last week that the child vanished from their mobile home in Fayetteville.
Hotel surveillance video taken around the same time Shaniya was reported missing showed the girl with a man identified as Mario Andrette McNeill. He was charged with first-degree kidnapping.
Police said they dropped kidnapping charges against another man, Clarence Coe, who was arrested Thursday in connection with the case.
they need to simplify this death penalty. general population for all. look how dahmer went out - the first prison riot, they handle him one time.
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Another reason why I have no sympathy for people who commit murder...especially, especially when the victim is a child. Hang them high OR inject they ass, I don't care!
Ask me why???
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/16/north.carolina.missing.girl/index.html
Girl's body found in North Carolina, police sayBy Gabriel Falcon, CNN
November 16, 2009 2:42 p.m. EST
Shaniya Davis, 5, was reported missing last week. Authorities said they found her body Monday.
(CNN) -- The body of a missing 5-year-old girl has been found in North Carolina, police said Monday.
Theresa Chance, public information officer of the Fayetteville Police Department, confirmed the girl's body was discovered.
A statement from Fayetteville Police Chief Tom Bergamine said positive identification was being sought for the recovered body. In a separate e-mail to CNN, Fayetteville police said the body found was that of the missing girl, Shaniya Davis.
About 200 people had been searching for the child's body after "reliable information" indicated that she might be dead, according to Fayetteville police.
Searchers located the body shortly after 1 p.m. ET, Chance told reporters. People at the scene, including searchers and police officers, were "torn up," she said.
The search focused on land near a roadway because "reliable information received that the body of Shaniya Davis may have been dumped there," a police statement said.
Investigators had been searching for Shaniya for several days.
Police have charged the girl's mother, Antoinette Nicole Davis, with trafficking and other offenses, authorities said. Davis was "prostituting her child," Chance said.
Other charges against the mother include felony child abuse, prostitution and filing a false police report, according to the Fayetteville Police Department.
The mother told police last week that the child vanished from their mobile home in Fayetteville.
Hotel surveillance video taken around the same time Shaniya was reported missing showed the girl with a man identified as Mario Andrette McNeill. He was charged with first-degree kidnapping.
Police said they dropped kidnapping charges against another man, Clarence Coe, who was arrested Thursday in connection with the case.
they need to simplify this death penalty. general population for all. look how dahmer went out - the first prison riot, they handle him one time.
Dat sound like a plan a cheap one at dat.
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Geez.
I was so sure they would have found that little girl alive and well.
I'm curious as to why they dropped charges against Coe when he was the one seen taking the child from the trailer park in his car.
We should avoid rushing to judgment against the mother on that charge of prostituting her child... I'm not sure how they would conclude that when the child didn't live with her and was only visiting. Only evidence giving rise to that charge would seem to come from would-be "johns"... and at this point everybody is a suspect and as such likely to give up their mother if it means them getting off the hook.
Mr. McNeil has a lot of explaining to do.
Bakes where did you hear that Coe was seen taking the girl? I think initially he was suspected as someone said they saw him leaving the trailer park, but it may have been Mc Neil..the sick f**ker.
"Mario Andrette McNeill was arrested early Friday morning and charged with 1st Degree Kidnapping of 5 year-old Shaniya Davis. He is being held on $100,000 bond at the Cumberland County Detention Center in North Carolina. He is expected to make his first court appearance at 2:30pm Friday. Shaniya was spotted with McNeill at an area hotel but the pair were gone before police got there. Police had previously arrested Clarence Coe on 1st Degree Kidnapping charges. He has now been released from jail and charges have been dropped against him. Police say that McNeill has confessed to abducting the girl and that Coe was not involved in the abduction. Shaniya Davis has still not been found. "
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I was following this story since Sunday morning, and I felt they will find this child because I kept saying family disrupt. So I really didn't assume the worst. Today in board meeting I in the back listening to them blah blah and my cell phone buzz. I took a glance at it and first thing to read CNN breaking news "The body of missing 5-year-old Shaniya Davis has been found near Sanford, North Carolina, police say". One anger just took over my senses that I heard absolutely nothing for a full 4 mins from those talking in front. What can a 5 year old child do to provoke you into killing her? Bakes I haven't reach the stage of saying 'who did it' because I'm sure they still trying to patch some pieces together. i won't be surprised if this child was raped, sodomized and tortured. Eh 5 years old.
As you said, I did read about the mother prostituting her child, but I myself can't see that as a possibility because the child was just visiting. But with the 2 photos of the man holding the bare feet child entering the elevator, have me second guessing that prostitution angle.
And now another CNN.com headline Oklahoma doctor held in death of son, 9
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/16/oklahoma.child.slaying/index.html
And then people saying life imprisonment? Nah some deaths are justified!! Swing dey ass man!
I eh go lie... dis story real f**k mih up
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Bakes where did you hear that Coe was seen taking the girl? I think initially he was suspected as someone said they saw him leaving the trailer park, but it may have been Mc Neil..the sick f**ker.
"Mario Andrette McNeill was arrested early Friday morning and charged with 1st Degree Kidnapping of 5 year-old Shaniya Davis. He is being held on $100,000 bond at the Cumberland County Detention Center in North Carolina. He is expected to make his first court appearance at 2:30pm Friday. Shaniya was spotted with McNeill at an area hotel but the pair were gone before police got there. Police had previously arrested Clarence Coe on 1st Degree Kidnapping charges. He has now been released from jail and charges have been dropped against him. Police say that McNeill has confessed to abducting the girl and that Coe was not involved in the abduction. Shaniya Davis has still not been found. "
This NBC report... at around 1:50...
http://www.hulu.com/watch/108895/nbc-today-show-missing-5-year-old-spotted-in-hotel-video
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Cool, apparently then they mistook Mc Neal for Coe. Not nice guys anyway.
Poor soul, children raped, sold for sex.....damn!
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if the govt can kill, who is we?
==
Teen Confesses To Molesting Sister, Dad Executes Him
Jamar Pinkney Sr. Could Face Life in Prison if Convicted
By EMILY FRIEDMAN
(http://abcnews.go.com/WN/father-kills-son-molesting-sister/story?id=9127703)
A 15-year-old boy who was killed by his father in an execution style killing spent the last moments of his life pleading, "No, Daddy! No!"
Jamar Pinkney Jr. was shot in the head Monday by his 37-year-old father, Jamar Pinkney Sr., who allegedly made the teen strip his clothes off and kneel in a vacant lot before he was killed by a single bullet.
The boy's mother, Lazette Cherry, told the Detroit Free Press that Pinkney Sr., showed up at her Highland Park, Mich., home after she told him that their son had made a startling confession.
According to Cherry, the 15-year-old had admitted to having "inappropriate contact" with his 3-year-old half sister.
"I called and told his father this isn't something you sweep under the rug," Cherry, who was unable to be reached by ABCNews.com, told the paper.
Pinkney Sr. began by pistol whipping his son in the living room where the teen lived with his mother before taking him outside, despite Cherry's pleas to stop.
The father marched the naked boy into the lot and made him kneel down. As the boy pleaded for his life and his distraught mother looked on, Pinkney Sr. allegedly executed the boy with a shot in the head.
Pinkney Sr. was charged with first degree murder and if convicted, could spend the rest of his life in prison. The judge entered a "not guilty" plea on behalf of Pinkney. He is also charged with three counts of felonious assault and one count of felony firearm.
Video of the arraignment shows a relative of the child being taken out of the court room after screaming "No, no, no," when Pinkney Sr. was led into court.
His lawyer, Corbett O'Meara, called the incident a "devastating tragedy."
"My client is in shock and in mourning, but is hopeful that his family will be able to come out of this in as whole a state as possible," said O'Meara.
O'Meara said that Pinkney Sr., who turned himself into authorities, had no previous criminal history and had worked "for years" as a letter carrier for the United States Post Office.
Boy Killed by Father Was Known as Teddy Bear
"No individual has the right to exact the death penalty on another no matter how reprehensible the behavior," prosecutor Kym Worthy said in a statement. "That is why we have laws."
O'Meara told ABCNews.com that he hopes Worthy will "realize the case is far from straight forward" and requires something "other than the most aggressive" punishment.
And even though Pinkney Sr. had never been diagnosed with mental health problems, O'Meara said that if the allegations of the murder are true, "there must be issues with his mental health."
Meanwhile, the community where the child was raised is mourning the loss of a boy they say was known by friends as "teddy bear."
Volunteers at the high school where Pinkney Jr. was a sophomore said the teen was "always smiling," according to The Detroit News.
The principal at Martin Luther King Jr. High School, Deborah Jenkins, told the paper that Pinkney Jr. was "well-liked" and that the school community has been "shaken badly" by his death.
"He was articulate. He passed his courses with A's, B's and C's. Everyone knew him to be a nice, quiet boy," said Jenkins.
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"No individual..."
Next.
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Ribbit you have kids? To be exact daughters?
I'll leave this question right here and go in my bed. I'll get up in the morning and whether you answer or not, I'll continue!
*****************
CNN.com
Murder and rape charges will be filed against a North Carolina man in the death of 5-year-old Shaniya Davis, police said Thursday.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/18/shaniya.davis/index.html
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"No individual..."
Next.
yuh make paralegal with that response.
Ribbit you have kids? To be exact daughters?
I'll leave this question right here and go in my bed. I'll get up in the morning and whether you answer or not, I'll continue!
*****************
CNN.com
Murder and rape charges will be filed against a North Carolina man in the death of 5-year-old Shaniya Davis, police said Thursday.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/18/shaniya.davis/index.html
no.
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yuh make paralegal with that response.
Dai'z okay de concept over yuh head doh worry about it... keep putting yuh high school diploma to good use helping out de teacher in de classroom.
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Morning Ribbit,
Okay 'no', neither to I. But I have 2 god daughters and 1 god son. Although none came from me, they are still mine to protect and love. I didn't come out from under a rock yesterday, I'm fully aware of how the world is turning and what nastiness goes on. You can't trust anyone with your children.
Call me overly protective....that's okay! But I'm not going to come home from work one afternoon, hear one of them screaming and crying her lungs out, only to find some man whether be boyfriend or stranger on top of her and me saying "aye stop that!" and dial 911. Some deaths are justified! I will deal with the consequences after, but at least I know the child is still with me.....emotionally battered, but still with me.
I really don't give ah flying fack if you have some chemical in balance or you mentally challenged, they are mine to protect.
I didn't googled or took any thoughts from a book I read....this is me and it's quite simple.
Up to now no one have put forward anything to me to convince me that I shouldn't rally for capital punishment.
Let them swing or in modern times, inject dey arse!!
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I have 3 daughters, and no, is not right to take another man's life...especially a teen. although sometimes yuh does get real vex and frustrated.
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Morning Ribbit,
Okay 'no', neither to I. But I have 2 god daughters and 1 god son. Although none came from me, they are still mine to protect and love. I didn't come out from under a rock yesterday, I'm fully aware of how the world is turning and what nastiness goes on. You can't trust anyone with your children.
Call me overly protective....that's okay! But I'm not going to come home from work one afternoon, hear one of them screaming and crying her lungs out, only to find some man whether be boyfriend or stranger on top of her and me saying "aye stop that!" and dial 911. Some deaths are justified! I will deal with the consequences after, but at least I know the child is still with me.....emotionally battered, but still with me.
I really don't give ah flying fack if you have some chemical in balance or you mentally challenged, they are mine to protect.
I didn't googled or took any thoughts from a book I read....this is me and it's quite simple.
Up to now no one have put forward anything to me to convince me that I shouldn't rally for capital punishment.
Let them swing or in modern times, inject dey arse!!
Cana your scenario describes taking action when a split second decision has to be made.
But capital punishment is a measured response. The fact that some states / countries have the death penalty and other don't suggests that there is a major divide on this issue.
It is not a clear cut course of action as some would suggest. All depends on your point of view.
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Yes it's definitely my point of view.....still is!
What is the difference between a spilt decision and when caught after the fact? The fact reminds is you committed a crime that led to someone's death. Worst yet for a repeat offender. And you still alive? NAH!! I'm no judge but am sure part of a jury.
Whether be spilt decision or a 4 year trial in court, my stand is, you going to your maker for a crime you committed. Take for example that guy from Cleveland. He was in jail for many years for rape and whatever. He was released and to this day they still looking for bodies at his house - AFTER his release crimes. The count reached 11 women. He shows no remorse for his crimes committed. If it wasn't for one of the raped victims reporting his ass, he would have still be killing women out there today and family members still out there searching for their loved ones. What's the plan with him now? Send him back to jail for life and feed him? Seek therapy? steupse!!
If I have to be part of weeding out the evils of this world, so be it! When it's my turn to meet my maker, we'll have a debate. You earthlings not convincing me at all. :-\
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Kounty my post is a general post, and not in response to any story in here. I also get vex and frustrated when the line for gas long and I'm late for a meeting because of traffic. That anger goes way beyond....
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yuh make paralegal with that response.
Dai'z okay de concept over yuh head doh worry about it... keep putting yuh high school diploma to good use helping out de teacher in de classroom.
bait n' switch, is you, RF and troy marquis for forum troll of de year.
Morning Ribbit,
Okay 'no', neither to I. But I have 2 god daughters and 1 god son. Although none came from me, they are still mine to protect and love. I didn't come out from under a rock yesterday, I'm fully aware of how the world is turning and what nastiness goes on. You can't trust anyone with your children.
Call me overly protective....that's okay! But I'm not going to come home from work one afternoon, hear one of them screaming and crying her lungs out, only to find some man whether be boyfriend or stranger on top of her and me saying "aye stop that!" and dial 911. Some deaths are justified! I will deal with the consequences after, but at least I know the child is still with me.....emotionally battered, but still with me.
I really don't give ah flying fack if you have some chemical in balance or you mentally challenged, they are mine to protect.
I didn't googled or took any thoughts from a book I read....this is me and it's quite simple.
Up to now no one have put forward anything to me to convince me that I shouldn't rally for capital punishment.
Let them swing or in modern times, inject dey arse!!
Yes it's definitely my point of view.....still is!
What is the difference between a spilt decision and when caught after the fact? The fact reminds is you committed a crime that led to someone's death. Worst yet for a repeat offender. And you still alive? NAH!! I'm no judge but am sure part of a jury.
Whether be spilt decision or a 4 year trial in court, my stand is, you going to your maker for a crime you committed. Take for example that guy from Cleveland. He was in jail for many years for rape and whatever. He was released and to this day they still looking for bodies at his house - AFTER his release crimes. The count reached 11 women. He shows no remorse for his crimes committed. If it wasn't for one of the raped victims reporting his ass, he would have still be killing women out there today and family members still out there searching for their loved ones. What's the plan with him now? Send him back to jail for life and feed him? Seek therapy? steupse!!
If I have to be part of weeding out the evils of this world, so be it! When it's my turn to meet my maker, we'll have a debate. You earthlings not convincing me at all. :-\
***********************************
Kounty my post is a general post, and not in response to any story in here. I also get vex and frustrated when the line for gas long and I'm late for a meeting because of traffic. That anger goes way beyond....
rookmin, me eh know whether that was the right decision or not; me eh presume to adjudicate that. however, it is this man's responsibility MORE then anyone else who only now come to run dey mouth like this lawyer do in the article.
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bait n' switch, is you, RF and troy marquis for forum troll of de year.
Assuming your are correct... emphasis on de ASS part, who fault it is that yuh keep eating de chain up den? If yuh cyah run in de race den just siddung on de side and suck yuh snow cone and keep yuh ass quiet.
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ah asking a serious question
1) What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?
Possible answers
1) Deterrent? if so, then Texas would have a 0 homicide rate
2) Closure? not sure about that because killing the killer does not bring back the victims. Only time may heal and that is still not a guarantee
3) Guarantee that the killer is not released to kill again? could be, but if the criminal system was efficient, those killers would never be released to kill again
4) weeding out evil? then the system better impose the death penalty for a wider array of evil crimes which extend beyond homicide.
for the record, i believe that rehabilitation is a crock. I would rather they stay in jail forever and repay their debt by working for society for the rest of their lives.
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Yes it's definitely my point of view.....still is!
What is the difference between a spilt decision and when caught after the fact?
None - i was implying that you made the decision to execute or kill a person in a split sec because you were attempting to save your chile. Whereas when the state makes a decision after the fact, they are making a conscious decision to kill a person. A crime of passion may have extenuating circumstances. But then again, one may argue that the death penalty is a legalized crime of passion because I do not understand what good comes out of executing a person.
here is a thought .. may be the death penalty decision should be made by the victim's family?
The fact reminds is you committed a crime that led to someone's death. Worst yet for a repeat offender. And you still alive? NAH!! I'm no judge but am sure part of a jury.
Whether be spilt decision or a 4 year trial in court, my stand is, you going to your maker for a crime you committed. Take for example that guy from Cleveland. He was in jail for many years for rape and whatever. He was released and to this day they still looking for bodies at his house - AFTER his release crimes. The count reached 11 women. He shows no remorse for his crimes committed. If it wasn't for one of the raped victims reporting his ass, he would have still be killing women out there today and family members still out there searching for their loved ones. What's the plan with him now? Send him back to jail for life and feed him? Seek therapy? steupse!!
and what happens if you are not guilty (as has happened so many times) before when an innocent person is found guilty and subsequently executed.
If I have to be part of weeding out the evils of this world, so be it! When it's my turn to meet my maker, we'll have a debate. You earthlings not convincing me at all. :-\
I can't really argue with your point of view. That is a strong personal decision that each person will have to make if push comes to shove.
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ah asking a serious question
1) What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?
Possible answers
1) Deterrent? if so, then Texas would have a 0 homicide rate
2) Closure? not sure about that because killing the killer does not bring back the victims. Only time may heal and that is still not a guarantee
3) Guarantee that the killer is not released to kill again? could be, but if the criminal system was efficient, those killers would never be released to kill again
4) weeding out evil? then the system better impose the death penalty for a wider array of evil crimes which extend beyond homicide.
for the record, i believe that rehabilitation is a crock. I would rather they stay in jail forever and repay their debt by working for society for the rest of their lives.
The system is not efficient.
You don't mind paying to clothe, house, feed, educate them for the rest of their lives, in a manner above many others who have never harmed society?
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ah asking a serious question
1) What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?
Possible answers
1) Deterrent? if so, then Texas would have a 0 homicide rate
2) Closure? not sure about that because killing the killer does not bring back the victims. Only time may heal and that is still not a guarantee
3) Guarantee that the killer is not released to kill again? could be, but if the criminal system was efficient, those killers would never be released to kill again
4) weeding out evil? then the system better impose the death penalty for a wider array of evil crimes which extend beyond homicide.
for the record, i believe that rehabilitation is a crock. I would rather they stay in jail forever and repay their debt by working for society for the rest of their lives.
The system is not efficient.
You don't mind paying to clothe, house, feed, educate them for the rest of their lives, in a manner above many others who have never harmed society?
so instead of fixing the system, we will execute as a temporary measure? instead of dealing with the root cause?
No, I don't mind paying for incarceration . .that is the price of a civilized society. Plus the price of death row has got to exceed the cost of full time incarceration ( i dont have any stats on that comment - just my gut feeling) . Plus, make them repay their debt by working them so that the net cost is zero.
As long as we executing, our society is not as civilized as we would like to think.
In my definition, a civilized society does not kill. The human race have a long way to go.
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Not sure how one can deal with a root cause that has thus far eluded us.
What causes a human being to kill another.
What causes an adult to strangle and rape a baby. And how might we stop him/her from doing so.
They gave women a bligh called PMS but so far men have no such escape clause.
I don't know.
I can't argue the gut feeling on the cost. I have no idea either, not even a gut feeling.
"In my definition, a civilized society does not kill. The human race have a long way to go."
Sounds like the cart is in front of the horse. The person killed and society reacted by killing him/her.
It is one of the recourses we have. Kill them, incarcerate them. Poor choices for this civilized society among whom murderers live.
I do not know what I would do were I faced with this choice. My grief may cause me to want revenge, it may lead me to prayer, it may lead me to madness. I don't know. But I have to put that grief some place. When I bang my shin on the couch, I am vexed with the couch.
I admit that freely. I can only ask and wonder and guess.
In my definition, a civilized soceity would not have this question.
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As long as we executing, our society is not as civilized as we would like to think.
In my definition, a civilized society does not kill. The human race have a long way to go.
is this equivalent to the notion that there's some intrinsic value to a human life? mho, is that value have to be earned not gifted by society. in the modern day terms, people talking alot about what "rights" they have but no mention of why they have these rights. this presumption didn't used to exist and it is subject to abuse/advantage.
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ah asking a serious question
1) What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?
Possible answers
1) Deterrent? if so, then Texas would have a 0 homicide rate
This is a fallacy. Using your rationale imprisonment serves no deterrent either, since there isn't a single country with 0 crime rate. Why waste time locking them up, right?
2) Closure? not sure about that because killing the killer does not bring back the victims. Only time may heal and that is still not a guarantee
Having a body to bury doesn't bring the victim back either... but try telling the families that the 'closure' argument doesn't make any sense and see what they say.
3) Guarantee that the killer is not released to kill again? could be, but if the criminal system was efficient, those killers would never be released to kill again
So mandatory life for all death-eligible criminals instead... on the taxpayers dime to boot. Why? seeing that this too is likely to totally eradicate crime? But your rationale again, killing them will serve the same purpose.
4) weeding out evil? then the system better impose the death penalty for a wider array of evil crimes which extend beyond homicide.
"evil" is a moral construct, not a criminal one and as such no amount of mortal punishment will serve towards eradicating evil en toto. So that argument is a non-starter.
for the record, i believe that rehabilitation is a crock. I would rather they stay in jail forever and repay their debt by working for society for the rest of their lives.
Working for society doing what... making license plates and otherwise benefitting the prison industry? How is that 'working for society'? Life imprisonment is no more a rational solution than the death penalty. In the end it comes down to your own personal leaning.
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Yes it's definitely my point of view.....still is!
What is the difference between a spilt decision and when caught after the fact? The fact reminds is you committed a crime that led to someone's death. Worst yet for a repeat offender. And you still alive? NAH!! I'm no judge but am sure part of a jury.
Whether be spilt decision or a 4 year trial in court, my stand is, you going to your maker for a crime you committed. Take for example that guy from Cleveland. He was in jail for many years for rape and whatever. He was released and to this day they still looking for bodies at his house - AFTER his release crimes. The count reached 11 women. He shows no remorse for his crimes committed. If it wasn't for one of the raped victims reporting his ass, he would have still be killing women out there today and family members still out there searching for their loved ones. What's the plan with him now? Send him back to jail for life and feed him? Seek therapy? steupse!!
If I have to be part of weeding out the evils of this world, so be it! When it's my turn to meet my maker, we'll have a debate. You earthlings not convincing me at all. :-\
***********************************
Kounty my post is a general post, and not in response to any story in here. I also get vex and frustrated when the line for gas long and I'm late for a meeting because of traffic. That anger goes way beyond....
Amen, amen, preach on. I have a daughter. Four years old. And so help me if anyone even look at her the wrong way he will deal with me. And if god forbid...... anything like that ever happened, put the damn rope in my hand, I go handle them myself. Rape, assault, whatever you want to call it is bad. But ( and this is my opinion) when you attack a child, or an elderly woman, the crime is intensified. You attack me, at least I have a fighting change to save myself. You go after a 5 year old. Aint right.
Queen, you say you dont know what you would do in a situation like that, I already know. There are some things that are unforgivable. Some things that dont make sense. Some things that dont even need a judge and jury and a prison sentence.
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so instead of fixing the system, we will execute as a temporary measure? instead of dealing with the root cause?
What is the 'root cause'... and how are we NOT dealing with it?
No, I don't mind paying for incarceration . .that is the price of a civilized society. Plus the price of death row has got to exceed the cost of full time incarceration ( i dont have any stats on that comment - just my gut feeling) . Plus, make them repay their debt by working them so that the net cost is zero.
As long as we executing, our society is not as civilized as we would like to think.
In my definition, a civilized society does not kill. The human race have a long way to go.
Based on who's definition? These are very conclusory statements based on nothing but emotion. Sometimes it becomes necessary to kill, which is why there is such a thing as a justifiable homicide. Adopting your absolutist position waging war or killing to save a life is 'uncivilized'... after all, these are all state-sanctioned forms of killing.
In my view there are certain criminals who simply don't deserve to live... men like Dole Chadee being among them... and a nameless many here in the US. A year ago, two years ago I was one like you arguing against the death penalty, but the truth is that the public-at-large is buffeted from some of the heinous crimes that take place in relative obscurity. One case that will forever stay with me is the murder of a housewife in Georgia several years ago that went largely unnoticed by the media. The killers broke into this older couple's house, shot the husband and left him for dead. They robbed them, stole their car and kidnapped the 50-something wife. They then beat and repeatedly raped her before wrapping her head-to-toe in duct tape and forcing her off a bridge and into an icy river below.
To me the only rational argument against their execution was the fact that they were juveniles... and as much as I am against executing juveniles even this case was enough to try my resolve.
As for your gut feeling... it is indeed more expensive to execute than to incarcerate for life, but that's only on account of the costs involved in the appellate process in most cases. Other than that in financial terms it's not at all expensive to throw the switch or administer the drugs.
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ah asking a serious question
1) What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?
Possible answers
1) Deterrent? if so, then Texas would have a 0 homicide rate
2) Closure? not sure about that because killing the killer does not bring back the victims. Only time may heal and that is still not a guarantee
3) Guarantee that the killer is not released to kill again? could be, but if the criminal system was efficient, those killers would never be released to kill again
4) weeding out evil? then the system better impose the death penalty for a wider array of evil crimes which extend beyond homicide.
for the record, i believe that rehabilitation is a crock. I would rather they stay in jail forever and repay their debt by working for society for the rest of their lives.
What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?
pecan I really didn't read your 'possible answers', but mine is quite straight forward.
answer: my piece of mind that this son of ah bitch not alive to hurt another.
I going personal now. I said this before in this very forum. I was on the jury for the Sa Gomes and Scott murder trial (#9) I sat in that chair for a month and 2 days. I watched the families of the 2 murdered women. I watched the maid who was beaten, raped and sodomized. I watch Chuck Attin mother every single day just sitting there in a daze. I watched the face expressions of the Mohammed fella. I listened to the graphic evidence what these fellas did to the maid before going on the killing spree. I held the blood stained knife/cutlass, the blood stained underwear, pieces of tape, pictures of their nude bodies, pictures of the blood stained walls/ground/carpet. It only took us about 12 mins to come back with a verdict. Mohammed was sentence to death and Attin being a minor at the time got life. My civic duty was to sit there, listen and decide. That was ALL those 2 was getting from me. It took a mental and physical toil on me. I felt sick....lost weight and was in a mild depression. I was angry for a long time. Not because of the crime, but because the children had to grow up without their mothers. Young mothers. Who's to say they didn't do crime prior to that case? Or if wasn't caught what more gruesome acts they would be performing.
So pecan I have justification for what I believe in and why I know what I'd do whether for self defense, protection or to protect someone else. Because I know and I see what humans can do...just because they can!!
pecan we will agree to disagree....I'm fine with that. You continue to nourish them for me to hang after. :beermug
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ah asking a serious question
1) What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?
Possible answers
1) Deterrent? if so, then Texas would have a 0 homicide rate
This is a fallacy. Using your rationale imprisonment serves no deterrent either, since there isn't a single country with 0 crime rate. Why waste time locking them up, right?
2) Closure? not sure about that because killing the killer does not bring back the victims. Only time may heal and that is still not a guarantee
Having a body to bury doesn't bring the victim back either... but try telling the families that the 'closure' argument doesn't make any sense and see what they say.
3) Guarantee that the killer is not released to kill again? could be, but if the criminal system was efficient, those killers would never be released to kill again
So mandatory life for all death-eligible criminals instead... on the taxpayers dime to boot. Why? seeing that this too is likely to totally eradicate crime? But your rationale again, killing them will serve the same purpose.
4) weeding out evil? then the system better impose the death penalty for a wider array of evil crimes which extend beyond homicide.
"evil" is a moral construct, not a criminal one and as such no amount of mortal punishment will serve towards eradicating evil en toto. So that argument is a non-starter.
for the record, i believe that rehabilitation is a crock. I would rather they stay in jail forever and repay their debt by working for society for the rest of their lives.
Working for society doing what... making license plates and otherwise benefitting the prison industry? How is that 'working for society'? Life imprisonment is no more a rational solution than the death penalty. In the end it comes down to your own personal leaning.
I posted those possible answers to reflect what I though proponents of the death penalty may have answered in response to my question of what good comes out of the death penalty.
The only thing that the death penalty serves is to guarantee that the killer does not kill again. But I think that life imprisonment does the same thing, .. yes, on the tax payers dime.
I have to admit, much of my belief has to do with emotion. I don't support the notion of legalized murder (which is what I think the death penalty is),
Your comment Having a body to bury doesn't bring the victim back either... but try telling the families that the 'closure' argument doesn't make any sense and see what they say.
I have tried telling that to the family ... my wife, her uncle and the rest of her family. And I know what they say. Mrs Pecan 1st cousins, 16 and 18 year old girls were brutally slashed and stabbed to death. So I know first hand what the families went through. I personally helped with aspects of the funeral. I personally saw how it devastated the family. Yet NOT ONCE did any of the immediate family ever advocate for the death penalty. The two murderers were caught, tried, found guilty and sentenced to what the Cdn justice system calls life imprisonment.
So I am speaking somewhat first hand as a member of the victim's family. The girls' murders did not change my view of the death penalty. Rather it re-enforced my wife's and my current views that if we kill those killers, we become them. Obviously that is an emotional view, but no different than the emotions that drive others to rally for the death penalty.
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pecan I really didn't read your 'possible answers', but mine is quite straight forward.
answer: my piece of mind that this son of ah bitch not alive to hurt another.
So pecan I have justification for what I believe in and why I know what I'd do whether for self defense, protection or to protect someone else. Because I know and I see what humans can do...just because they can!!
pecan we will agree to disagree....I'm fine with that. You continue to nourish them for me to hang after.
At least we agree that they should be removed from society at large. Forever.
cant argue with the statement that they will not kill again.
Interesting though how your experience with a brutal murder has resulted with your views and how my experience has resulted with an opposing view. Not as clear cut as we would like it to be. :beermug:
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Based on who's definition? These are very conclusory statements based on nothing but emotion.
I agree - as I said, that was my definition. I I have no expectation that other will agree with it
Sometimes it becomes necessary to kill, which is why there is such a thing as a justifiable homicide. Adopting your absolutist position waging war or killing to save a life is 'uncivilized'... after all, these are all state-sanctioned forms of killing.
Yes, I maintain that war is state sanctioned killing but I still don't agree with the notion of war. At this stage in human societal development, was is a natural by-product and a necessity at times. Hopefully there will come a time when we dont need it. Altruistic - absolutely.
In my view there are certain criminals who simply don't deserve to live...
To me the only rational argument against their execution was the fact that they were juveniles... and as much as I am against executing juveniles even this case was enough to try my resolve.
Curious point? why should juveniles be treated differently than adults fore heinous crimes? it should not make a difference if you support the death penalty in general.
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ah asking a serious question
1) What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?
Possible answers
1) Deterrent? if so, then Texas would have a 0 homicide rate
2) Closure? not sure about that because killing the killer does not bring back the victims. Only time may heal and that is still not a guarantee
3) Guarantee that the killer is not released to kill again? could be, but if the criminal system was efficient, those killers would never be released to kill again
4) weeding out evil? then the system better impose the death penalty for a wider array of evil crimes which extend beyond homicide.
for the record, i believe that rehabilitation is a crock. I would rather they stay in jail forever and repay their debt by working for society for the rest of their lives.
What good comes out of exacting the death penalty other than a sense of revenge/satisfaction and perhaps saving some money?
pecan I really didn't read your 'possible answers', but mine is quite straight forward.
answer: my piece of mind that this son of ah bitch not alive to hurt another.
I going personal now. I said this before in this very forum. I was on the jury for the Sa Gomes and Scott murder trial (#9) I sat in that chair for a month and 2 days. I watched the families of the 2 murdered women. I watched the maid who was beaten, raped and sodomized. I watch Chuck Attin mother every single day just sitting there in a daze. I watched the face expressions of the Mohammed fella. I listened to the graphic evidence what these fellas did to the maid before going on the killing spree. I held the blood stained knife/cutlass, the blood stained underwear, pieces of tape, pictures of their nude bodies, pictures of the blood stained walls/ground/carpet. It only took us about 12 mins to come back with a verdict. Mohammed was sentence to death and Attin being a minor at the time got life. My civic duty was to sit there, listen and decide. That was ALL those 2 was getting from me. It took a mental and physical toil on me. I felt sick....lost weight and was in a mild depression. I was angry for a long time. Not because of the crime, but because the children had to grow up without their mothers. Young mothers. Who's to say they didn't do crime prior to that case? Or if wasn't caught what more gruesome acts they would be performing.
So pecan I have justification for what I believe in and why I know what I'd do whether for self defense, protection or to protect someone else. Because I know and I see what humans can do...just because they can!!
pecan we will agree to disagree....I'm fine with that. You continue to nourish them for me to hang after. :beermug
Girl, I remember that like it was yesterday. Shivers up and down my spine.
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Your comment Having a body to bury doesn't bring the victim back either... but try telling the families that the 'closure' argument doesn't make any sense and see what they say.
I have tried telling that to the family ... my wife, her uncle and the rest of her family. And I know what they say. Mrs Pecan 1st cousins, 16 and 18 year old girls were brutally slashed and stabbed to death. So I know first hand what the families went through. I personally helped with aspects of the funeral. I personally saw how it devastated the family. Yet NOT ONCE did any of the immediate family ever advocate for the death penalty. The two murderers were caught, tried, found guilty and sentenced to what the Cdn justice system calls life imprisonment.
So I am speaking somewhat first hand as a member of the victim's family. The girls' murders did not change my view of the death penalty. Rather it re-enforced my wife's and my current views that if we kill those killers, we become them. Obviously that is an emotional view, but no different than the emotions that drive others to rally for the death penalty.
I saw where you posted about the murders of your family members earlier in the thread... however just because a death sentence couldn't bring closure for YOUR family doesn't mean that it doesn't bring closure for other families. I don't believe (as per your suggestion) that ultimate say should lie with the families... but if executing someone who is guilty of committing a particularly heinous crime would help the surviving loved ones of the victim heal... then that works for me.
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Curious point? why should juveniles be treated differently than adults fore heinous crimes? it should not make a difference if you support the death penalty in general.
There is nothing at all curious about it... two factors mitigate against executing juveniles:
1) The fact that from a developmental standpoint juveniles haven't fully completed their psychological/emotional growth and thus are prone to making more impulsive and less rational decisions. They consequently don't posess the requisite culpable mental state to be subjected to the death penalty. If you haven't fully thought thru your actions and the potential ramifications thereof then clearly you're not as culpable as one who has.
2) Related to their unfulfilled emotional growth is the capacity for redemption and change.
Of course both of these two prongs could be applicable to every convicted murderer, juvenile or adult... but statistically the numbers justify granting the benefit of the doubt to juveniles. They are less likely to be mature and rational in their decisions... and more likely to be rehabilitated from their criminal state than their adult counterparts.
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Your comment Having a body to bury doesn't bring the victim back either... but try telling the families that the 'closure' argument doesn't make any sense and see what they say.
I have tried telling that to the family ... my wife, her uncle and the rest of her family. And I know what they say. Mrs Pecan 1st cousins, 16 and 18 year old girls were brutally slashed and stabbed to death. So I know first hand what the families went through. I personally helped with aspects of the funeral. I personally saw how it devastated the family. Yet NOT ONCE did any of the immediate family ever advocate for the death penalty. The two murderers were caught, tried, found guilty and sentenced to what the Cdn justice system calls life imprisonment.
So I am speaking somewhat first hand as a member of the victim's family. The girls' murders did not change my view of the death penalty. Rather it re-enforced my wife's and my current views that if we kill those killers, we become them. Obviously that is an emotional view, but no different than the emotions that drive others to rally for the death penalty.
I saw where you posted about the murders of your family members earlier in the thread... however just because a death sentence couldn't bring closure for YOUR family doesn't mean that it doesn't bring closure for other families. I don't believe (as per your suggestion) that ultimate say should lie with the families... but if executing someone who is guilty of committing a particularly heinous crime would help the surviving loved ones of the victim heal... then that works for me.
Do you know of any objective long term follow-up studies that track how victims' families respond in the aftermath of an execution? I am curious to see what the conclusions are.
I would wager a case of Carib that true healing comes from within rather than whether or not the killer is executed.
The only argument for the death penalty is that they will not kill again. But what if that person is innocent? Is one innocent death worth that guarantee?
Smarter minds than me have argued against the death penalty. I am only stating my personal beliefs/opinions. By no mean am I suggesting I am right.
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Curious point? why should juveniles be treated differently than adults fore heinous crimes? it should not make a difference if you support the death penalty in general.
There is nothing at all curious about it... two factors mitigate against executing juveniles:
1) The fact that from a developmental standpoint juveniles haven't fully completed their psychological/emotional growth and thus are prone to making more impulsive and less rational decisions. They consequently don't posess the requisite culpable mental state to be subjected to the death penalty. If you haven't fully thought thru your actions and the potential ramifications thereof then clearly you're not as culpable as one who has.
2) Related to their unfulfilled emotional growth is the capacity for redemption and change.
Of course both of these two prongs could be applicable to every convicted murderer, juvenile or adult... but statistically the numbers justify granting the benefit of the doubt to juveniles. They are less likely to be mature and rational in their decisions... and more likely to be rehabilitated from their criminal state than their adult counterparts.
you may not find it curious . But I still do not withstanding your points. Most juveniles, as do most adults, know right from wrong and do not resort to killing people. So to ease up on the juveniles just because they "haven't fully completed their psychological/emotional growth' is an emotional defense because by-and-large, "normal" people have a difficult time with killing children. It is easier to demonize an adult and to kill said adult than to kill a child. Go ask soldiers who have to kill children.
So I still maintain that if you support the death penalty, you should have little difficulty in making that transition to execution juvenile killers ... unless there is something fundamentally flawed with the notion of death penalties.
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Queen, you say you dont know what you would do in a situation like that, I already know. There are some things that are unforgivable. Some things that dont make sense. Some things that dont even need a judge and jury and a prison sentence.
Yes I don't know what I would do. It's not always cut and dried. If my family is heinously harmed I would probably catapult into madness. How might it manifest? I don't know. My guess would be complete grief since my family is the air I breathe. The loss of them would be my undoing. Faced with their murderer? It boggles the mind. I may react with venom and want to inject or throw the switch myself. I may also be so completely insane that all I can do is rock and drool on myself.
What if the murderer is a child? A member of the family? Didn't I read where a father took his own son out in the back yard and shoot him mafia style when he found out the son was molesting the daughter?
I have a 15 year old son. I have a 5 year old daughter. What if this were my family? How do I deal with my husband, my lover, the father of my two children?
...so yeah...I don't know. This isn't a one size fits all for me. Some should fry, some have mitigating circumstances.
I do know all this talk about being civilized is a crock though. We are not. On that, I have no doubt whatsoever.
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Do you know of any objective long term follow-up studies that track how victims' families respond in the aftermath of an execution? I am curious to see what the conclusions are.
Don't know of any... I really don't follow the death penalty debates like that.
I would wager a case of Carib that true healing comes from within rather than whether or not the killer is executed.
I'm no psychologist, but I'd wager that external factors can aid the healing process as well.
The only argument for the death penalty is that they will not kill again. But what if that person is innocent? Is one innocent death worth that guarantee?
No, I think that's the only argument you're willing to accept... I think there's a difference.
Smarter minds than me have argued against the death penalty. I am only stating my personal beliefs/opinions. By no mean am I suggesting I am right.
Smarter minds than me have similarly argued in favor of it... and like you I don't presume to have the answer/s either. All I know is that as I've begun to look at reality a bit closer to the action so to speak that I've shifted my opposition against capital punishment to more of a centrist stance. I am neither staunchly for the death penalty nor staunchly opposed to it... I merely favor it in extreme cases.
I had the opportunity to hear Darryl Hunt (http://www.darrylhuntproject.org/) speak two weeks ago... and to pose some questions to him. There are individuals throughout the world who have every right to be bitter and selfish, who instead step beyond their circumstances so as to try to make a difference in the lives of others... but it's not everyday that we get a chance to meet them in person. He is one such individual... I was literally moved to tears speaking with him.
So yes, I'm well aware of the risk of executing innocent men... which is why death-eligible cases should be selected with due care and scrutinized for mistakes and prosecutorial misconduct. I also disagree with denying review on grounds of technicalities or otherwise deliberately frustrating efforts that might help uncover the truth... much of which happens today. However a primary concern with imprisonment is the punishment factor and quite frankly I think some people can forfeit their right to live and breathe among us. Cold? Sure. Playing God? Maybe. But whenever we endeavor to judge others such is the risk we run.
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yuh make paralegal with that response.
Dai'z okay de concept over yuh head doh worry about it... keep putting yuh high school diploma to good use helping out de teacher in de classroom.
Bakes I was watching a program about the Constitution jes de other day and they were discussing Paine and John Jay...you are absolutely right...even without watching that program I get what you were saying....the Government is NOT an individual...jes like conscription etc. The State..................I am starting to like law.
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you may not find it curious . But I still do not withstanding your points. Most juveniles, as do most adults, know right from wrong and do not resort to killing people.
I never argued otherwise... but thank you for stating the obvious. Before the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional, most juveniles charged with killing people weren't made death-eligible either... since we're tossing about meaningless statements.
So to ease up on the juveniles just because they "haven't fully completed their psychological/emotional growth' is an emotional defense because by-and-large, "normal" people have a difficult time with killing children. It is easier to demonize an adult and to kill said adult than to kill a child. Go ask soldiers who have to kill children.
There's nothing at all emotional about the debate, it's fact driven by scientific data. Again, I'm no psychologist... but I know better than to argue with the experts... plus centuries of anecdotal evidence supports the stance. Young people do stupid things all the time... it's only with age and experience do they typically acquire the requisite wisdom to reflect upon the errors of their youth. I know I can personally attest to it as well... so from personal, anecdotal and scientific evidence I can conclude with confidence that treating juvenile offenders more leniently than their adult counterparts is sound policy. There is nothing at all "emotional" about my position.
So I still maintain that if you support the death penalty, you should have little difficulty in making that transition to execution juvenile killers ... unless there is something fundamentally flawed with the notion of death penalties.
As is your right... you can maintain your stance all you want. I on the other hand try to be as objective as possible and part of that is recognizing that there are little hard and fast truths in life. I fully recognized that there are some full-fledged juvenile criminals who but for their age would make prime candidates for capital punishment. I also recognize that there may be adult offenders who make genuine mistakes who aren't afforded the benefit of the doubt on account of their age. We can't hope for a perfect system, we can only try to make it better and do the best we possibly can.
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yuh make paralegal with that response.
Dai'z okay de concept over yuh head doh worry about it... keep putting yuh high school diploma to good use helping out de teacher in de classroom.
Bakes I was watching a program about the Constitution jes de other day and they were discussing Paine and John Jay...you are absolutely right...even without watching that program I get what you were saying....the Government is NOT an individual...jes like conscription etc. The State..................I am starting to like law.
Not only is the Gov't not an individual... but no 'individual' makes the decision to try, let alone sentence someone to death. Not sure why ribbit having problems with it... then again, is ribbit we talking about so it should really be no surprise.
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here is a thought .. may be the death penalty decision should be made by the victim's family?
yeah, that's a good point. maybe more precisely by the victim if that's possible (like a somewhat morbid addendum to a last will stipulating desired judgements in the event of demise by someone else's hand). but it really seems that the victim ought to be part of the judgement rather than a bystander. maybe take a page from some of those african villages who had to deal with child soldiers. it was up to the village, particularly those aggrieved, to decide whether these child soldiers would be accepted back.
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:-\ yup Martha Stewart cell would be ideal for him. >:(
Cleveland mass murder suspect indicted on 85 counts
CNN.com
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/01/sowell.cleveland.bodies/index.html
A registered sex offender has been indicted on 85 counts -- including aggravated murder, rape and kidnapping -- in the deaths of 11 women whose bodies were found at his home, authorities said Tuesday.
In addition, Anthony Sowell, 50, is charged with "brutalizing" three women and raping two of them, Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Bill Mason said.
Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty against Sowell, Mason said. Sowell is scheduled to be arraigned Thursday. Sowell is now charged with 11 counts of aggravated murder with a "mass murder specification," meaning multiple people were killed in a similar fashion, Mason said. He also is charged with abuse of a corpse, kidnapping and tampering with evidence.
The indictment also alleges that Sowell assaulted women on December 8, 2008, and on September 22 and October 20 of this year. The September and October victims were raped, and the other woman was punched and choked before she escaped, Mason said. Sowell's charges in the incidents include attempted murder, rape or attempted rape, kidnapping, robbery and felonious assault.
Sowell already faced charges in the September 22 rape and has pleaded not guilty.
On October 20, neighbors reported seeing a naked woman fall from the second floor of his house. Firefighters responded and later notified police. But the woman told officers she fell off the roof while she was at the home "partying," police said earlier. No charges were filed at the time.
Mason said, however, that the 51-year-old woman had been invited to Sowell's home and left, but was lured back in. After being choked and raped, she attempted to escape out a second-floor window as Sowell tried to pull her back in. When he was unsuccessful, he pushed her out, and she lay unconscious in an alley for a while before he pulled her back in the house.
Sowell threatened his victims and warned them not to contact police, Mason said. It's possible there are other victims, he said, and he urged anyone who has not come forward to do so. Sowell "knew what he was doing was wrong at the time he was doing it," Mason said.
As of last month, Sowell was on suicide watch at the request of his public defender, Kathleen DeMetz. She had said a psychiatric evaluation of Sowell had been ordered but was unlikely to happen until after an indictment was filed.
Cuyahoga County Sheriff Bob Reid said Tuesday that Sowell has been a "model prisoner," is kept in an isolated unit and has declined visitation requests. All of the 11 victims were African-American women, authorities have said. Most of them were strangled by ligature -- which could include a string, cord or wire -- and at least one was strangled by hand, officials said. Seven still had ligatures wrapped around their necks.
All that has been found of one woman is a skull that was wrapped in a paper bag and stuffed into a bucket in the home's basement.
Sowell served 15 years in prison for a 1989 attempted rape and was released in 2005. He was required to register as a sex offender. After the 11 victims were found, police in mid-November used thermal imaging in an attempt to see whether any additional human remains were on the property. They dug certain areas by hand. No more were found. Police and the FBI have said they are looking at the unsolved murders of three women in East Cleveland to determine whether there are similarities with the remains found at Sowell's home. The inquiry continues, Mason said Tuesday.
Police in Coronado, California, have said they are attempting to determine whether Sowell is linked to a 1979 rape there. Though the statute of limitations has expired, authorities said they would like to provide closure to the victim.
Neighbors and police have said that women were seen at Sowell's home from time to time and that he would offer them alcohol. Police said he also might have offered them drugs. In the September assault, the 36-year-old woman told police that she encountered Sowell while walking in his neighborhood and he took her back to his home, where he became violent and raped her, according to prosecutors. "While raping her, he strangled her with a cord until she lost consciousness," authorities said in a statement. "When she regained consciousness, he let her out of the house."
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She visited the house (and presumably realized it smelled like rotting corpses)... leave... and was "lured" back in? With what... a certified check for $10 million dollars and a bucket of extra crispy?
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Ohio executes inmate with 1-drug lethal injection
AP
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By ANDREW WELSH-HUGGINS, Associated Press Writer Andrew Welsh-huggins, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 23 mins ago
LUCASVILLE, Ohio – Ohio executed a killer Tuesday by performing the nation's first lethal injection using a single drug, a supposedly less painful method than previous executions that required three drugs.
Kenneth Biros was pronounced dead at 11:47 a.m. Tuesday, about 10 minutes after one dose of thiopental sodium began flowing into his veins at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility in Lucasville. The U.S. Supreme Court had rejected his final appeal about two hours before.
Experts predicted the thiopental sodium would take longer to kill the 51-year-old Biros than the convention three-drug cocktail, but the 10 minutes it apparently took him to die was about the usual length of time even under the method previously used by Ohio and still used by most other death penalty states.
The mother, sister and brother of Biros' victim, Tami Engstrom, applauded as the warden announced the time of death.
"Rock on," Debi Heiss, Tami's sister, said a moment earlier as the curtains were drawn for the coroner to check on Biros. "That was too easy."
The execution team tried for several minutes to find usable veins, including inserting needles several times in both arms, before eventually completing the process on just his left arm after about 30 minutes.
After the chemical started flowing at 11:37 a.m., Biros' chest heaved up and down several times, and he moved his head a couple of times over about two minutes before his body stopped moving.
Prisons director Terry Collins said the team took as much time as needed and he considered the process problem-free.
Ohio overhauled its procedure after a failed attempt to execute Romell Broom, a procedure halted by Gov. Ted Strickland in September. Executioners tried for two hours to find a suitable vein for injection, hitting bone and muscle in as many as 18 needle sticks that Broom, 53, said were very painful.
A hearing begins in federal court Wednesday on Broom's attempt to stop the state from trying again.
The state had two goals in changing its process. Switching to one drug was meant to end a 5-year-old lawsuit that claims Ohio's three-drug system was capable of causing severe pain. Injection experts and defense attorneys agreed a single dose of sodium thiopental would not cause pain.
A backup procedure allowing a two-drug muscle injection was created in case a situation like Broom's execution happened again.
States are watching Ohio's change, but none have made a similar switch. Florida, Kentucky, South Carolina, Texas and Virginia are among those saying they will keep the three-drug method.
It was the second trip to Lucasville for Biros, who spent more than 30 hours in the holding cell in March 2007 before the U.S. Supreme Court stopped his execution and allowed him to make his own challenge to the three-drug method.
U.S. District Judge Gregory Frost refused Monday to delay the execution, and Biros' appeal was rejected later that night.
Biros argued that the state had failed to fix the problems that led to the unsuccessful execution attempt in September. He said the state still relies on unqualified executioners and lacks limits on how long they are allowed to try to find a vein.
In asking Frost for a stay, Biros had argued that the new execution method still left vein access issues unresolved, subjecting him to the risk of severe pain, and had described the new one-drug approach as "impermissible human experimentation." The judge, in his ruling, called the arguments "unpersuasive."
Frost did say Ohio's execution system still has flaws that "raise profound concerns and present unnecessary risks." He also said he was concerned about the competency of Ohio's executioners and how much they appeared able to deviate from the state's written execution rules.
All 36 death penalty states use lethal injection, and 35 rely on the three-drug method. Nebraska, which recently adopted injection over electrocution, has proposed the three-drug method but hasn't finalized the process.
Biros killed the 22-year-old Engstrom near Warren in 1991 after offering to drive her home from a bar, then scattered her body parts in Ohio and Pennsylvania. Before dying Tuesday, he apologized for his crime and thanked his friends and relatives for supporting him.
"I'm being paroled to my father in heaven," Biros said. "I will now spend all of my holidays with my Lord and savior, Jesus Christ."
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Ohio executes inmate with 1-drug lethal injection
The mother, sister and brother of Biros' victim, Tami Engstrom, applauded as the warden announced the time of death.
"Rock on," Debi Heiss, Tami's sister, said a moment earlier as the curtains were drawn for the coroner to check on Biros. "That was too easy."
The execution team tried for several minutes to find usable veins, including inserting needles several times in both arms, before eventually completing the process on just his left arm after about 30 minutes.
After the chemical started flowing at 11:37 a.m., Biros' chest heaved up and down several times, and he moved his head a couple of times over about two minutes before his body stopped moving.
Prisons director Terry Collins said the team took as much time as needed and he considered the process problem-free.
Ohio overhauled its procedure after a failed attempt to execute Romell Broom, a procedure halted by Gov. Ted Strickland in September. Executioners tried for two hours to find a suitable vein for injection, hitting bone and muscle in as many as 18 needle sticks that Broom, 53, said were very painful.
The state had two goals in changing its process. Switching to one drug was meant to end a 5-year-old lawsuit that claims Ohio's three-drug system was capable of causing severe pain. Injection experts and defense attorneys agreed a single dose of sodium thiopental would not cause pain.
A backup procedure allowing a two-drug muscle injection was created in case a situation like Broom's execution happened again.
1) If the victim's family truly got satisfaction and the execution helped ease their pain, then I suppose the death penalty serves at least one purpose.
2) If they having so much problems with lethal injection, why don't they revert to the guillotine or firing squad? Those work really well, or are they trying to sanitize executions?
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man...I believe man have a higher nature than this...honestly. mankind is NOBLE. I am sure we could figure out a better way.