Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: che on January 26, 2010, 12:56:14 PM
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http://www.solentwaters.co.uk/JAlbumnews/Recentnews/slides/Port%20of%20Spain.JPG
TTS Port of Spain : New flag ship of the coast guard.
She has two sister ships TTS Scarborough and TTS San Fernando.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml-LLXLeDcQ&feature=related
Launching of TTS Scarborough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAWXMTlHi70
T&T will also have six new Fast Patrol Boats
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kinda big
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nice!
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Good !!!
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any bets on how long before dem coast guard start to charter dat bing one for private kanaval party?
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any bets on how long before dem coast guard start to charter dat bing one for private kanaval party?
any historical precedence for such as question?
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any bets on how long before dem coast guard start to charter dat bing one for private kanaval party?
any historical precedence for such as question?
hmmm...ah fine yuh take long to bristle
dem yoot not as disciplined as back when you was in dey.....ah sure yuh follow de one who shoot he pardna in the barracks over ah gyul
Bunji go be performin on de bridge of de big ship by septemeber....by de way tell assrancid dat davyjenny lookin fuh he
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any bets on how long before dem coast guard start to charter dat bing one for private kanaval party?
any historical precedence for such as question?
hmmm...ah fine yuh take long to bristle
dem yoot not as disciplined as back when you was in dey.....ah sure yuh follow de one who shoot he pardna in the barracks over ah gyul
Bunji go be performin on de bridge of de big ship by septemeber....by de way tell assrancid dat davyjenny lookin fuh he
The story is that he shot his friend over a girl. Let us wait to see what the evidence says and not barracks room chat. The father of the shooter happens to be a very close friend of mine since childhood and a respected member of the T&T Coast Guard too.
As for assrancid, he is his own man regardless of what you or anyone else hears believes. The youth don't run the T&T Coast guard it is an organization with tradition. You have not answered my question so I guess that you are conceding that there are no historical precedence.
By the way, no one here has the ability to make be bristle, if I rest down a cuss is becasue I fwlt to, not because anyone made me do it.
Now doh f**k wit me today eh.
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You have not answered my question so I guess that you are conceding that there are no historical precedence.
By the way, no one here has the ability to make be bristle, if I rest down a cuss is becasue I fwlt to, not because anyone made me do it.
Now doh f**k wit me today eh.
mmm mmm e-thug flexin in he muscle shirt today eh?
I eh have no historical or empirical precedent or even ence that trinidad police does use de squad cars for personal baccahanal or does rent out dey gun either, but ahm.......
ah go see if de rumshop maco could provide anecdotal evidence
tell assrancid de guard yoots different from when you and kelshall use to lime dong in chag
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you like shit too much, maybe you should change your name to shitty?
I was jes kicksing with the f**k remark fella. I was jes playing on yuh bristling remark...doh dig nutten I was kicksing. But that said yuh does play de arse sometimes a little too much..cool?
The T&T Coast Guard never had a reputation for playing with their vessels, and for your info, the men who run it now were the same men I used to work with back then!
They are the ones in charge not the youth as I earlier pointed out. But in your obvious haste to denigrate a fine organization yuh run yuh damn mout without regard for the truth!
Maybe after the older heads retire and you actually get an instance or three then yuh could re-wind and come with yuh shitty ass remarks about feteing on the vessels.
Just because one Guardsman shot another is the service any less respectable. No organization can guarantee that ALL their members will operate above board all the time. I can assure you that there have always been those who stain the honour of the organization from time to time, but yuh damn fast to come here and besmirch the T&T Coast Guard without any provocation whatsoever.
There is much that can be improved, but you will be hard pressed to find a more honorable unit in Trinidad and Tobago. That said I spent more time in the US Navy than I did in the T&T CG...still...it is my CG.
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:cursing: :nailbiting: :violin: :violin: :yapping:
:salute: :salute:
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:cursing: :nailbiting: :violin: :violin: :yapping:
:salute: :salute:
all ah dat and yuh still did talk shit
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http://photos.marinetraffic.com/ais/showphoto.aspx?photoid=172618
http://photos.marinetraffic.com/ais/showphoto.aspx?photoid=174261
TTS Port of Spain . She soon will be coming to T&T.
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good now we could take over Barbados now :)
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good now we could take over Barbados now :)
We already take that rock over already, them boats is for the invasion of Jamaica. CEMENT< BANKING>RUM>AIR JAMAICA>NEXT STOP......MOBAY!
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:rotfl:
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That go be cool if PNM could buy up the Caribbean eh ,if they smart enough to pull that off ah go be a PNM for life !
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ah bounce up some young coast guards down the islands ah couple years back on ah dingy with at trolling motor and one maco size gun mounted on the front (thing weighting dong the backho inner tube). Is the most screw face humans I ever see in meh life. The sour tamarind I get from the tree on the island was like granulated sugar when compared to these youths sourness. Ah mean I sure they can't be fren fren while securing the boundaries of this great nation... but oh gosh man. Not because you have automatic caps gun and glorified school boy uniform yuh go get orn so man.
Service people in TnT does not make themselves approachable to the average citizen. Is as if they want people to fraid them.
I cud only imagine how much more screw face they'll be when they on that vessel.
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I hope they they use it to help stop the guns and drugs from coming in. Rell youths have gun now in T&T, where the hell all these guns come from?
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sad thing about the fast boats is the fellas can't drive.. most pple down de islands drive better than them. Is real cuss they get over xmas cuz they ram my cousin boat trying to board. I haven't met sour ones the couple of times we been boarded tho. They have been pretty cool
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ah bounce up some young coast guards down the islands ah couple years back on ah dingy with at trolling motor and one maco size gun mounted on the front (thing weighting dong the backho inner tube). Is the most screw face humans I ever see in meh life. The sour tamarind I get from the tree on the island was like granulated sugar when compared to these youths sourness. Ah mean I sure they can't be fren fren while securing the boundaries of this great nation... but oh gosh man. Not because you have automatic caps gun and glorified school boy uniform yuh go get orn so man.
Service people in TnT does not make themselves approachable to the average citizen. Is as if they want people to fraid them.
I cud only imagine how much more screw face they'll be when they on that vessel.
Some ah dem really does remind me of the Canadian Navy
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ah bounce up some young coast guards down the islands ah couple years back on ah dingy with at trolling motor and one maco size gun mounted on the front (thing weighting dong the backho inner tube). Is the most screw face humans I ever see in meh life. The sour tamarind I get from the tree on the island was like granulated sugar when compared to these youths sourness. Ah mean I sure they can't be fren fren while securing the boundaries of this great nation... but oh gosh man. Not because you have automatic caps gun and glorified school boy uniform yuh go get orn so man.
Service people in TnT does not make themselves approachable to the average citizen. Is as if they want people to fraid them.
I cud only imagine how much more screw face they'll be when they on that vessel.
Some ah dem really does remind me of the Canadian Navy
I'm sure you're correct.There's got to be a few good ones.
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PM: Security cloak for T&T
Four new fast patrol vessels to help deter entry of illegal arms, drugs
Denyse Renne drenne@trinidadexpress.com
Sunday, February 28th 2010
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=161601670
(http://www.trinidadexpress.com/shared/images/2010/02/28/n3.jpg)
on show: Newly acquired coast guard fast patrol vessels during a display at yesterday's welcoming ceremony at Staubles Bay, Chaguaramas. -Photo: JERMAINE CRUICKSHANK
Prime Minister Patrick Manning yesterday promised T&T will soon be cloaked in a security blanket, making it difficult for illegal arms, ammunition and drugs to penetrate its maritime boarders.
Manning made the promise in his feature address at yesterday’s commissioning of six fast patrol vessels at Stauble’s Bay, Chaguaramas.
The vessels-CG11 T&T Scarlet Ibis, CG12 T&T Hibiscus, CG13 T&T Humming Bird, CG14 T&T Chaconia, CG 15 T&T Poui and CG16 T&T Teak -now joins the coast guard’s fleet of ten interceptors and four older interceptors. Manning said, currently, T&T faces two major problems, one being the issue of illegal drugs, namely cocaine, and the other the entry of illegal firearms into the country.
Stating that criminal elements have a thriving business from the importation and sale of these illegal items, Manning said fifty to sixty per cent of crime arises from the ’drug and illegal arms trade’.
Referring to the 1985 Scotland Yard Drug Report, Manning said one of the conclusions of the report was that T&T ’is small enough to eradicate the drug trade’.
He said the recently acquired vessels will work hand in hand with the 360-degree radar system, obtained from Israel, to ensure T&T receives adequate coverage. He said already, ten radars were installed throughout T&T and were fully operational, with security agencies studying strategies and determining ways to address issues of detection.
Manning also said three off patrol vessels (OPV) are due to arrive in the country in July, before the end of the year and next year respectively, and will work alongside other security agencies to ensure the security of the country’s borders.
Saying T&T’s sea capabilities will soon be up to strength, he said Government has been assured the required training will be entrusted to those using the vessels.
Manning also spoke about the growth of the illegal drug industry, noting ’drug dealers no longer count money but weigh it’, but said with the acquisition of the vessels, T&T will see a reduction in crime.
’The Government recognises that if we are able to stem the illegal importation of cocaine and other drugs and the illegal importation of arms, we can see a reduction in crime by 50 per cent,’ he said.
The prime minister also thanked National Security Minister Martin Joseph, saying he has persevered despite criticism over the crime scourge in the country.
Also speaking at the ceremony was Chief of Defence Staff Brig Edmund Dillon who said receipt of the vessels will surely transform the protective services, making T&T ’a safe and secure environment for people to work, live and play’.
Commanding Officer of the Coast Guard Cpt Kent Moore also spoke at the event which was attended by Attorney General John Jeremie, Chief Justice Ivor Archie, and other Government ministers.
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Nice to have the new boats. But all the speaches are pure BULL!!!!!
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Prime Minister says this country is... for the first time in its history ready to fight the illegal drug trade
Video..http://www.cbeanmedia.org/TV6NEWS_F4V/Links/PM_manning_TT_ready_to_fight_illegal_drug_trade_2010_02_27.htm
.....
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Prime Minister says this country is... for the first time in its history ready to fight the illegal drug trade
Video..http://www.cbeanmedia.org/TV6NEWS_F4V/Links/PM_manning_TT_ready_to_fight_illegal_drug_trade_2010_02_27.htm
good find
.....
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The Guardian had a better picture. The floating Manning is a nice touch ::)
(http://guardian.co.tt/files/imagecache/article_main_image_stretched/articles/images/opv.png)
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hahaha
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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/T%26T_Port_of_Spain-1-tonal.jpg
http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/data/3086/medium/DSC_02031.JPG
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With all the naval vessels we collecting to protect the coast. Lets say the CG seize coke and marijuana, where do they store it. Is it handed over to the police. I hope not. Because now they investigating missing coke from a police station. But how trustworthy are the sailors.This whole thing go be like throwin' water in basket.
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With all the naval vessels we collecting to protect the coast. Lets say the CG seize coke and marijuana, where do they store it. Is it handed over to the police. I hope not. Because now they investigating missing coke from a police station. But how trustworthy are the sailors.This whole thing go be like throwin' water in basket.
Big facking steups...so jes let it come in..yeah good idea. The drugs are soaked in diesel and then handed over...later it is burned in Staubles.
Most ah de time anyway. But even if it has to be turned over to the police and the courts, what is your problem? Jes let the smugglers and the gun runners have free rein?
BWDMCIT?
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TC,
I just want to know what the procedures are? How much of us know that they does soak the coke in diesel. probaly only you, because you were a former CG. I know they does burn the ganja. And I am not suggesting that we leave our coastline unprotected. I might be an arse but not JW arse.
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TC,
I just want to know what the procedures are? How much of us know that they does soak the coke in diesel. probaly only you, because you were a former CG. I know they does burn the ganja. And I am not suggesting that we leave our coastline unprotected. I might be an arse but not JW arse.
Sorry, I jes so tired ah de constant criticism of the government. And much of it is justified eh, but oh Gosh man...(ah nearly post Oh God man oui)
Look the biggest problem ah dis government is perception and failure to properly lay the groundwork and explanation for most of their undertakings.
Oh and Manning too
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that's the lease :devil:
http://www.jdfmil.org/Units/coast_guard/cg_home.php
good now we could take over Barbados now :)
We already take that rock over already, them boats is for the invasion of Jamaica. CEMENT< BANKING>RUM>AIR JAMAICA>NEXT STOP......MOBAY!
you want to buy these to :devil:
http://www.jamaicatradeandinvest.org/documents/opp08bk.pdf
http://www.ramsa.com/project.aspx?id=237
you better invade before the largest military camp in the English Caribbean complete because we may sink Trinidad :devil:
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/news-21057--9-9--.html
http://www.mtw.gov.jm/Advertisement/Project%20Outline-%20Vernamfield.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernam_Field
During the first decade of the 21st century, the Government of Jamaica made several proposals to develop Vernam Field as the island's third international airport.[1] In September 2008 it was announced that as part of this development Jamaica's military, the Jamaica Defence Force (JDF), was to be moved to Vernam Field from its historic city centre site at Up Park Camp in Kingston.[2] By June 2009 the JDF had secured the site and it was reported that the Vernam Airfield Development Project was to build an initial 10,000-11,000 foot runway and adjoining taxi ways capable of handling the largest contemporary aircraft including the Antonov An-124, Antonov An-225 and the Airbus A380.
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that's the lease :devil:
http://www.jdfmil.org/Units/coast_guard/cg_home.php
good now we could take over Barbados now :)
We already take that rock over already, them boats is for the invasion of Jamaica. CEMENT< BANKING>RUM>AIR JAMAICA>NEXT STOP......MOBAY!
you want to buy these to :devil:
http://www.jamaicatradeandinvest.org/documents/opp08bk.pdf
http://www.ramsa.com/project.aspx?id=237
you better invade before the largest military camp in the English Caribbean complete because we may sink Trinidad :devil:
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/news-21057--9-9--.html
http://www.mtw.gov.jm/Advertisement/Project%20Outline-%20Vernamfield.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernam_Field
During the first decade of the 21st century, the Government of Jamaica made several proposals to develop Vernam Field as the island's third international airport.[1] In September 2008 it was announced that as part of this development Jamaica's military, the Jamaica Defence Force (JDF), was to be moved to Vernam Field from its historic city centre site at Up Park Camp in Kingston.[2] By June 2009 the JDF had secured the site and it was reported that the Vernam Airfield Development Project was to build an initial 10,000-11,000 foot runway and adjoining taxi ways capable of handling the largest contemporary aircraft including the Antonov An-124, Antonov An-225 and the Airbus A380.
Breds sorry to burst your bubble,but we in T&T have a nice long tradition of providing TRAINING to many of your officers, including your current Commanding Officer (Good fellow though)!!!
I also heard allyuh does shoot like Spanish...hahahahahahahahaha look one way and aim the other!
Look at dem old time GPMG allyuh still using? The Romans invented dat always sticking ting...lol and he watch sure to drop off he hand hahahaha
(http://www.jdfmil.org/Units/coast_guard/images/defence-readiness.jpg)
and dis? one pin jook and allyuh sunk!
(http://www.jdfmil.org/Units/coast_guard/images/maritime-law-enforcement.jpg)
anyway I on kicks eh, big up to the Jamaica Defense Force!
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that's the lease :devil:
http://www.jdfmil.org/Units/coast_guard/cg_home.php
good now we could take over Barbados now :)
We already take that rock over already, them boats is for the invasion of Jamaica. CEMENT< BANKING>RUM>AIR JAMAICA>NEXT STOP......MOBAY!
you want to buy these to :devil:
http://www.jamaicatradeandinvest.org/documents/opp08bk.pdf
http://www.ramsa.com/project.aspx?id=237
you better invade before the largest military camp in the English Caribbean complete because we may sink Trinidad :devil:
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/news-21057--9-9--.html
http://www.mtw.gov.jm/Advertisement/Project%20Outline-%20Vernamfield.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernam_Field
During the first decade of the 21st century, the Government of Jamaica made several proposals to develop Vernam Field as the island's third international airport.[1] In September 2008 it was announced that as part of this development Jamaica's military, the Jamaica Defence Force (JDF), was to be moved to Vernam Field from its historic city centre site at Up Park Camp in Kingston.[2] By June 2009 the JDF had secured the site and it was reported that the Vernam Airfield Development Project was to build an initial 10,000-11,000 foot runway and adjoining taxi ways capable of handling the largest contemporary aircraft including the Antonov An-124, Antonov An-225 and the Airbus A380.
Breds sorry to burst your bubble,but we in T&T have a nice long tradition of providing TRAINING to many of your officers, including your current Commanding Officer (Good fellow though)!!!
I also heard allyuh does shoot like Spanish...hahahahahahahahaha look one way and aim the other!
Look at dem old time GPMG allyuh still using? The Romans invented dat always sticking ting...lol and he watch sure to drop off he hand hahahaha
(http://www.jdfmil.org/Units/coast_guard/images/defence-readiness.jpg)
and dis? one pin jook and allyuh sunk!
(http://www.jdfmil.org/Units/coast_guard/images/maritime-law-enforcement.jpg)
anyway I on kicks eh, big up to the Jamaica Defense Force!
you burst your own bubble . Trinidad give who train?. you looking for old picture to talk about old stuff. in 2005 we change over most of our vessels. you can tell trini that not me.
who the hell you think you talking to :rotfl:
http://www.jis.gov.jm/security/html/20051028t090000-0500_7187_jis_new_coast_guard_vessel_commissioned.asp
http://img5.imageshost.ru/imgs/090402/d0d77cc75b984cac09e698f65aad32de/767f7391f91152e126f415cf1f83050f.jpg
this is where ever one in the Caribbean will be running
The new Jamaica Military Aviation School (JMAS) is the only such facility in the Caribbean and will train helicopter and multi-engine aircraft pilots according to Canadian standards.
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Yuh jes shoot yuhself in de foot..is Canadian standards yuh baosting about? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Dias like buying wonder bag and hoping yuh find good looks in it.
Oh and as I said, MANY of YOUR JAMAICAN OFFICERS came to T&T and trained!
And for your info, is de same website you provided that had the pics I posted!
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guys why allyuh feeding the trolls..
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Yuh jes shoot yuhself in de foot..is Canadian standards yuh baosting about? hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Dias like buying wonder bag and hoping yuh find good looks in it.
Oh and as I said, MANY of YOUR JAMAICAN OFFICERS came to T&T and trained!
does T&T as any at all? :devil:. fool am a former JDF and we had Trinidadians, Guyanese, Barbados and more all came to Newcastle for training.
http://www.dnd.ca/site/news-nouvelles/news-nouvelles-eng.asp?cat=03&id=2160
MTAP’s activities in the Caribbean date back to the early 1960’s. The Caribbean has long been an area of strategic value to Canada. MTAP member countries from this region include Jamaica, Antigua and Barbuda, Belize, Guyana, and Trinidad and Tobago
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that's the lease :devil:
http://www.jdfmil.org/Units/coast_guard/cg_home.php
good now we could take over Barbados now :)
We already take that rock over already, them boats is for the invasion of Jamaica. CEMENT< BANKING>RUM>AIR JAMAICA>NEXT STOP......MOBAY!
you want to buy these to :devil:
http://www.jamaicatradeandinvest.org/documents/opp08bk.pdf
http://www.ramsa.com/project.aspx?id=237
you better invade before the largest military camp in the English Caribbean complete because we may sink Trinidad :devil:
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/news-21057--9-9--.html
http://www.mtw.gov.jm/Advertisement/Project%20Outline-%20Vernamfield.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernam_Field
During the first decade of the 21st century, the Government of Jamaica made several proposals to develop Vernam Field as the island's third international airport.[1] In September 2008 it was announced that as part of this development Jamaica's military, the Jamaica Defence Force (JDF), was to be moved to Vernam Field from its historic city centre site at Up Park Camp in Kingston.[2] By June 2009 the JDF had secured the site and it was reported that the Vernam Airfield Development Project was to build an initial 10,000-11,000 foot runway and adjoining taxi ways capable of handling the largest contemporary aircraft including the Antonov An-124, Antonov An-225 and the Airbus A380.
Breds sorry to burst your bubble,but we in T&T have a nice long tradition of providing TRAINING to many of your officers, including your current Commanding Officer (Good fellow though)!!!
I also heard allyuh does shoot like Spanish...hahahahahahahahaha look one way and aim the other!
Look at dem old time GPMG allyuh still using? The Romans invented dat always sticking ting...lol and he watch sure to drop off he hand hahahaha
(http://www.jdfmil.org/Units/coast_guard/images/defence-readiness.jpg)
and dis? one pin jook and allyuh sunk!
(http://www.jdfmil.org/Units/coast_guard/images/maritime-law-enforcement.jpg)
anyway I on kicks eh, big up to the Jamaica Defense Force!
oh lord :rotfl: :rotfl:
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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/T%26T_Port_of_Spain-1-tonal.jpg
i thought 3 of these were coming too. The SS PortofSpain, the ss sando, and ss scarborough
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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/T%26T_Port_of_Spain-1-tonal.jpg
i thought 3 of these were coming too. The SS PortofSpain, the ss sando, and ss scarborough
9 in all 3 now and 6 later...this clown telling me that he is a former member of the JDF....and dat we go dey to train. I jes come off he website and he own Commanding Officer say in he resume that he train in T&T!!! lol
Breds doh boast about military training from Canada nah, please DON'T yuh killing meh here...is Canadian military yuh talking about. Dem should come to teh US and sell girl scout cookies...with de training dem have.
yuh really killing meh here. seriously
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http://www.jdfmil.org/Units/coast_guard/cg_history.php
The newest fleet, the County Class, were acquired in 2005 (HMJS CORNWALL and HMJS MIDDLESEX) and 2006 (HMJS SURREY).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/T%26T_Port_of_Spain-1-tonal.jpg
i thought 3 of these were coming too. The SS PortofSpain, the ss sando, and ss scarborough
9 in all 3 now and 6 later...this clown telling me that he is a former member of the JDF....and dat we go dey to train. I jes come off he website and he own Commanding Officer say in he resume that he train in T&T!!! lol
Breds doh boast about military training from Canada nah, please DON'T yuh killing meh here...is Canadian military yuh talking about. Dem should come to teh US and sell girl scout cookies...with de training dem have.
yuh really killing meh here. seriously
most caribbean military train in Jamaica. by the way does Trinidad have a specific military or aviation college?
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Listen, and listen well, this is the one time I will educate you, dem new boats you talking about are small fast patrol boats...congrats dem does take 10 man crews, maybe 12 max.
I have PERSONALLY been involved in the Training of JDF personnel...as in PERSONALLY!
allyuh sorf.
i DID NOT WANT TO GO THERE, BUT YUH COME HERE CHATTING SHIT AFTER i MAKE A LITTLE JOKE.
Admiral Hardley Lewin is a personal friend of mine...he loves to drink hard liquor. He was in charge of allyuh police not too long ago until he resigned.
Yiu cyar come here and talk shit to me fella.
Allyuh personnel does complain dem is Seven Day Adventist and REFUSE to work on Saturdays..lol
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Listen, and listen well, this is the one time I will educate you, dem new boats you talking about are small fast patrol boats...congrats dem does take 10 man crews, maybe 12 max.
I have PERSONALLY been involved in the Training of JDF personnel...as in PERSONALLY!
allyuh sorf.
i DID NOT WANT TO GO THERE, BUT YUH COME HERE CHATTING SHIT AFTER i MAKE A LITTLE JOKE.
Admiral Hardley Lewin is a personal friend of mine...he loves to drink hard liquor. He was in charge of allyuh police not too long ago until he resigned.
Yiu cyar come here and talk shit to me fella.
Allyuh personnel does complain dem is Seven Day Adventist and REFUSE to work on Saturdays..lol
all that crap you talking is a big lie. it don't even make no sense i go further i see you keep trying to make up stuff from small boats to now you and non existent is friend. the JDF is soft? what is the size of tht T&T military compare to the JDF. why the T&T military did not go it alone when you had the conference with Obama, why the JDF leads the Caribbean contingent to Haiti relief effort? ???
where was T&T militarty. that is not even half the size of JDF.
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_news?id=161586217
Jamaica rushed a 150-member contingent of the Jamaica Defence Force, to establish what has been described as ’the Caricom footprint
Jamaican contingent representing the Caribbean
you just saying stuff to make joke or something ::)
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numb skull! The T&T government does not dictate what type of security Obama gets, that is number one! Number 2, those are small boats you posted about, in fact they are fast patrol boats and have a 12 man crew max! FACT baby.
3rd. Lewin is my personal friend, and I have actually trained members of the JDF during Tradewinds!
4th. Jamaica is closer to Haiti than T&T so it makes sense for them to lead the caribbean contingent.
5th. T&T Defense Force is sorf too! We are NOT an Army, it is a DEFENSE FORCE and a small one too.
6th. Jamaica sent 150 men to Haiti, big f**king deal we sending 5 million US..steups.
7th. TTDF Defense Force is better equipped than the JDF!
8th. Barbados has the BEST Coast Guard in the English Speaking Caribbean
9th. Members of the JDF and The Jamaican Constabulary refused to come to work on Saturdays claiming that theyw ere Adventists..google it, my fren eh go lie.
10th, I was kicksing with you, but you persisted in talking shit so I jes correcking yuh.
11th, The US took over and was in Command of the Jamaica and Canadian efforts...steups.
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numb skull! The T&T government does not dictate what type of security Obama gets, that is number one! Number 2, those are small boats you posted about, in fact they are fast patrol boats and have a 12 man crew max! FACT baby.
3rd. Lewin is my personal friend, and I have actually trained members of the JDF during Tradewinds!
4th. Jamaica is closer to Haiti than T&T so it makes sense for them to lead the caribbean contingent.
5th. T&T Defense Force is sorf too! We are NOT an Army, it is a DEFENSE FORCE and a small one too.
6th. Jamaica sent 150 men to Haiti, big f**king deal we sending 5 million US..steups.
7th. TTDF Defense Force is better equipped than the JDF!
8th. Barbados has the BEST Coast Guard in the English Speaking Caribbean
9th. Members of the JDF and The Jamaican Constabulary refused to come to work on Saturdays claiming that theyw ere Adventists..google it, my fren eh go lie.
10th, I was kicksing with you, but you persisted in talking shit so I jes correcking yuh.
11th, The US took over and was in Command of the Jamaica and Canadian efforts...steups.
you talking about small boats by using picture.pictures can be deceiving base on the distance or angle in which it was taking the names should tell you more if you know about vessels.these are some of the vessels the http://www.jdfmil.org/equipment/ships/ships_home.php#P8. plus new ones they recently order.
Jamaica has the same size vessels as those and also got smaller ones for different types in interception. of course Barbados is going to have the best coast guard when they are smaller than one parish in Jamaica and do you think the encounter the size of problem Jamaica does with thousand of Haitian captures and gun trade each year?. anyway i rest my caste because this argument is getting stupid.
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that's the lease :devil:
http://www.jdfmil.org/Units/coast_guard/cg_home.php
good now we could take over Barbados now :)
We already take that rock over already, them boats is for the invasion of Jamaica. CEMENT< BANKING>RUM>AIR JAMAICA>NEXT STOP......MOBAY!
you want to buy these to :devil:
http://www.jamaicatradeandinvest.org/documents/opp08bk.pdf
http://www.ramsa.com/project.aspx?id=237
you better invade before the largest military camp in the English Caribbean complete because we may sink Trinidad :devil:
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/news-21057--9-9--.html
http://www.mtw.gov.jm/Advertisement/Project%20Outline-%20Vernamfield.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernam_Field
During the first decade of the 21st century, the Government of Jamaica made several proposals to develop Vernam Field as the island's third international airport.[1] In September 2008 it was announced that as part of this development Jamaica's military, the Jamaica Defence Force (JDF), was to be moved to Vernam Field from its historic city centre site at Up Park Camp in Kingston.[2] By June 2009 the JDF had secured the site and it was reported that the Vernam Airfield Development Project was to build an initial 10,000-11,000 foot runway and adjoining taxi ways capable of handling the largest contemporary aircraft including the Antonov An-124, Antonov An-225 and the Airbus A380.
What does jahkingdom hope to achieve in this thread ? Jamaica is your country and its fair that you would extol your own virtues. But what's this business about sinking Trinidad. Steups.
Another troll from the North.
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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/T%26T_Port_of_Spain-1-tonal.jpg
i thought 3 of these were coming too. The SS PortofSpain, the ss sando, and ss scarborough
Yes, TTS Port of Spain and TTS Scarborough are both doing there final sea trials and should be released to us soon. TTS San Fernando is still under construction and should be ready by year end.
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that's the lease :devil:
http://www.jdfmil.org/Units/coast_guard/cg_home.php
good now we could take over Barbados now :)
We already take that rock over already, them boats is for the invasion of Jamaica. CEMENT< BANKING>RUM>AIR JAMAICA>NEXT STOP......MOBAY!
you want to buy these to :devil:
http://www.jamaicatradeandinvest.org/documents/opp08bk.pdf
http://www.ramsa.com/project.aspx?id=237
you better invade before the largest military camp in the English Caribbean complete because we may sink Trinidad :devil:
http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/news-21057--9-9--.html
http://www.mtw.gov.jm/Advertisement/Project%20Outline-%20Vernamfield.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernam_Field
During the first decade of the 21st century, the Government of Jamaica made several proposals to develop Vernam Field as the island's third international airport.[1] In September 2008 it was announced that as part of this development Jamaica's military, the Jamaica Defence Force (JDF), was to be moved to Vernam Field from its historic city centre site at Up Park Camp in Kingston.[2] By June 2009 the JDF had secured the site and it was reported that the Vernam Airfield Development Project was to build an initial 10,000-11,000 foot runway and adjoining taxi ways capable of handling the largest contemporary aircraft including the Antonov An-124, Antonov An-225 and the Airbus A380.
What does jahkingdom hope to achieve in this thread ? Jamaica is your country and its fair that you would extol your own virtues. But what's this business about sinking Trinidad. Steups.
Another troll from the North.
it's just a joke my youth don't take it serious :rotfl:. didn't he said he wants to invade yard?. i know that's a joke also non of this is serious.
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fella I served on a naval SHIP with over 5000 men. Any BOAT with 12 men max is a small boat....! I feel you serve with the Jamaican Salvation Army.
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fella I served on a naval SHIP with over 5000 men. Any BOAT with 12 men max is a small boat....! I feel you serve with the Jamaican Salvation Army.
as i said earlier i rest my case. it makes no seance continue with you. i already post the vessels, so you hold what you hold.
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fella I served on a naval SHIP with over 5000 men. Any BOAT with 12 men max is a small boat....! I feel you serve with the Jamaican Salvation Army.
as i said earlier i rest my case. it makes no seance continue with you. i already post the vessels, so you hold what you hold.
I dont believe in ghosts I eh want nutten to do with seances. The vessels you posted are SMALL Boats....end of talk!
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The Guardian had a better picture. The floating Manning is a nice touch ::)
(http://guardian.co.tt/files/imagecache/article_main_image_stretched/articles/images/opv.png)
the pelican in front is our UAV?
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The Guardian had a better picture. The floating Manning is a nice touch ::)
(http://guardian.co.tt/files/imagecache/article_main_image_stretched/articles/images/opv.png)
the pelican in front is our UAV?
ass :D ;D
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:devil:
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Prime Minister says this country is... for the first time in its history ready to fight the illegal drug trade
Video..http://www.cbeanmedia.org/TV6NEWS_F4V/Links/PM_manning_TT_ready_to_fight_illegal_drug_trade_2010_02_27.htm
.....
anybody here who deal with guns before?, can u tell me, by going in the water with your weapon doesn't the upper receiver explode if water in it. i see the soldiers in the vid have G36K im not sure if that weapon made for that or do u have to drain it out before shooting. i not trying to be a gun expert but just saying a better weapon would be better , dont know.
VID shows what happens with water in yuh barrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/AGwkHktkTxU
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Prime Minister says this country is... for the first time in its history ready to fight the illegal drug trade
Video..http://www.cbeanmedia.org/TV6NEWS_F4V/Links/PM_manning_TT_ready_to_fight_illegal_drug_trade_2010_02_27.htm
.....
anybody here who deal with guns before?, can u tell me, by going in the water with your weapon doesn't the upper receiver explode if water in it. i see the soldiers in the vid have G36K im not sure if that weapon made for that or do u have to drain it out before shooting. i not trying to be a gun expert but just saying a better weapon would be better , dont know.
VID shows what happens with water in yuh barrel
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/AGwkHktkTxU
some of these test are heavily skewed in favor of the model being touted as superior, while HK generally has very reliable weapons, the m4 earned its reliability stripes over time but ah leave to d military people who here to chime in
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yeh for real, i do know the Delta force scrapped the M4 in favour of the 416 because of the jams
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_&_Koch_HK416 "The US Army's Delta Force collaborated with the German arms maker to develop the new carbine. Delta replaced its M4s with the HK416 in 2004 after tests revealed that the piston operating system significantly reduces malfunctions while increasing the life of parts."
http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/rtIDLFSlxOo
but yeh i would like to know what happens if u have a weapon that was in water and u have to use it, like in the video ??? of the TT coast guard
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I had to switch as well. From pomerac flowers to caps. Wet pomerac flowers used to stick in the bamboo barrel too much. Then I graduated to fun snaps for shock and awe.
wait. is 5000 men as see that fella say he used to "sail" with.
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Jumbie haul yuh ass.
I did not watch the vids, but I feel is Galil they usuing. (T&T CG)..good reliable weapons Water doh affect dem too much.
Typically though, the regular arm of the T&T Coast Guard will use SLR's Galil's, 9 mm etc. The SNU (Special Naval Unit) will use M4A1 with a SOPMOD Accessory Kit as well as Galils and for a personal weapon the M11 Sig Sauer P-228
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNjh4wE_ZJw
TTS Port of Spain with engine problem on Feb 7th.
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VIDEO Prime Minister details drug reduction efforts..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWUgAUW5Ap4&feature=player_embedded
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http://www.baesystems.com/AboutUs/TrinidadTobagovesseltakestotheseaforfinaltests/index.htm
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http://www.baesystems.com/AboutUs/TrinidadTobagovesseltakestotheseaforfinaltests/index.htm
;D
edit: but wait doesn't BAE build jet fighters too? i now catch meh self , dais a BIG company http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/autoGen_106920103850.html they does make the typhoon ,Tornado F3 also :o
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http://www.baesystems.com/AboutUs/TrinidadTobagovesseltakestotheseaforfinaltests/index.htm
These ships coming with the theme music too?
Also, in the video, they was sooting at a red target.. didn't seem to hit it. I guess they meant not to hit it.
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http://www.baesystems.com/AboutUs/TrinidadTobagovesseltakestotheseaforfinaltests/index.htm
These ships coming with the theme music too?
Also, in the video, they was sooting at a red target.. didn't seem to hit it. I guess they meant not to hit it.
I heard that the reason that it was taking longer for delivary was because there was a problem with the weapon guidance system. I guess this video proves that.
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Actually the problem was that it could not shoot electronically from inside the ship, the fact that it shooting means it working, as for accuracy that seems good for me, weapons systems like that aren't needle pin straight. especially at a distance, plus the buoy bobbing up and down aint helping either.
PP was making it sound like is some shit company making the ships, that cause the problems, but is BAE we talking about that aint know fly by night company, them does make submarines, jets etc.
just take a look at this
http://www.baesystems.com/Sites/Taranis/index.htm
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All yuh think is a waste of money or not?
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good investment, seeing we what we had was basically crap/nothing.
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as for accuracy that seems good for me, weapons systems like that aren't needle pin straight. especially at a distance, plus the buoy bobbing up and down aint helping either.
I was kicksin eh. You ent find that shooting scene was anticlimactic? I find they coulda shoot the hell out of the buoy with a guitar solo in the background.
http://www.youtube.com/v/1UNMgENyMUo
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All yuh think is a waste of money or not?
I am not a navel expert, but Uncle(retired) and nephew are in the coast guard. Both said these ships and the six fast boats were really needed. My nephew said that many times they tried too intercept drugs but the drug dealer boats were too fast to be caught.I have been following the investment and construction of these vessels for a while and I do not get into T&T politics but I have heard lots of false accusations and statements from Wade Marks and other PP members about these boats. When VT were taken over by BAE I was happy because BAE is a much bigger company than VT. The take over led to delays in the time line for delivery of the three OPV's but Mr. Marks made it sound like the deal had collapsed and the boats would not be completed.
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As far back as I can remember the Coast Guard has been struggling to meet it's responsibility because it was insufficiently equipped. T&T is a maritime nation with a large ocean territory, this investment in the Coast Guard is essential to protect our national interest especially considering the drug issue.
There was a suggestion in the senate that the regiment should be disbanded entirely and the coast guard should be upgraded to a full navy with a force of marines to handle terrestrial security.
Naturally the Regiment wasn't too happy about that idea but I think it's worth considering.
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As far back as I can remember the Coast Guard has been struggling to meet it's responsibility because it was insufficiently equipped. T&T is a maritime nation with a large ocean territory, this investment in the Coast Guard is essential to protect our national interest especially considering the drug issue.
There was a suggestion in the senate that the regiment should be disbanded entirely and the coast guard should be upgraded to a full navy with a force of marines to handle terrestrial security.
Naturally the Regiment wasn't too happy about that idea but I think it's worth considering.
Look all they need to do is transfer more soldiers over to the CG, it would make no difference. In times of emergencies(riots, rain,floods, hurricains, earthquake) they still have to be the 1st respondents. Costa Rica disbanded their army a couple decades ago, but they have a national guards. They do practically the same thing. But whether they make one bigger or smaller, both entities will have to do the same tasks.
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As far back as I can remember the Coast Guard has been struggling to meet it's responsibility because it was insufficiently equipped. T&T is a maritime nation with a large ocean territory, this investment in the Coast Guard is essential to protect our national interest especially considering the drug issue.
There was a suggestion in the senate that the regiment should be disbanded entirely and the coast guard should be upgraded to a full navy with a force of marines to handle terrestrial security.
Naturally the Regiment wasn't too happy about that idea but I think it's worth considering.
Look all they need to do is transfer more soldiers over to the CG, it would make no difference. In times of emergencies(riots, rain,floods, hurricains, earthquake) they still have to be the 1st respondents. Costa Rica disbanded their army a couple decades ago, but they have a national guards. They do practically the same thing. But whether they make one bigger or smaller, both entities will have to do the same tasks.
Sense Deeks
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You cannot simply transfer soldiers and make them sailors..rubbish. Additionaly, the reason the T&T Coast Guard is in the position it is in is due to the leadership of the Coast Guard.
Our Defense Force is not different from Costa Rica...it is a Defense Force same as a National Guard, we doh have no army and no Navy to attach anyone.
The boats are needed and they will get them, do you feel that the PP dat dotish?
The T&T CG;s leadership once had an opportunity to refurbish CG5 and CG6, the Ministry was going to send those vessels to Sweden (thats where they first obtained them new0 to be refurbished and re-fitted, the T&T CG insisted they could do it themselves....result? The boats were eventually scrapped.
Whne it comes down, Martin Joseph has to listen to advice, he is NOT a Naval expert, he sent many officers overseas to study and become experts.
Imagine the T&T CG sent boats to Grenada to buy liquor for the Christmas party without Ministerial permission...no customs nutten!!
Piss poor leadership. none ah dem suckers wnat to make command decisions as they fraid....steups.
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You cannot simply transfer soldiers and make them sailors..rubbish. Additionaly, the reason the T&T Coast Guard is in the position it is in is due to the leadership of the Coast Guard.
Our Defense Force is not different from Costa Rica...it is a Defense Force same as a National Guard, we doh have no army and no Navy to attach anyone.
The boats are needed and they will get them, do you feel that the PP dat dotish?
The T&T CG;s leadership once had an opportunity to refurbish CG5 and CG6, the Ministry was going to send those vessels to Sweden (thats where they first obtained them new0 to be refurbished and re-fitted, the T&T CG insisted they could do it themselves....result? The boats were eventually scrapped.
Whne it comes down, Martin Joseph has to listen to advice, he is NOT a Naval expert, he sent many officers overseas to study and become experts.
Imagine the T&T CG sent boats to Grenada to buy liquor for the Christmas party without Ministerial permission...no customs nutten!!
Piss poor leadership. none ah dem suckers wnat to make command decisions as they fraid....steups.
Cool
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http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jdw/jdw100922_1_n.shtml >:(
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I am kind of ambivalent here. That is unfortunate. I think we need them ships. It appears this mereger between the original company and BAE screwed up everything. That is not TT fault. I don't see why we should pay for cost over runs. Then what will happen to all the personel who was training over 2 years to run them boats????
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I am kind of ambivalent here. That is unfortunate. I think we need them ships. It appears this mereger between the original company and BAE screwed up everything. That is not TT fault. I don't see why we should pay for cost over runs. Then what will happen to all the personel who was training over 2 years to run them boats????
T&T Coast Guard really needed those ships. :(
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The boats are needed and they will get them, do you feel that the PP dat dotish?
:-X
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http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jdw/jdw100922_1_n.shtml >:(
This dotish-ass government go end up costing tax payers more money. How the hell yuh go cancel a contract when performance nearly complete? Is who really advising these people? Courts are not going to cancel a contract just because of cost overruns, what they'll do is adjust payment depending on who is responsible for the breach of performance. Make it worse they might end up getting sued in the UK where loser pays... meaning not only will they have to pay the full amount, they'll also have to pay penalties... PLUS the winning side's legal fees.
Madness... but we like it so.
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im shocked by that decision i really im.
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Govt scraps $billion Coast Guard vessel deal
By Keino Swamber South Bureau
GOVERNMENT has taken a decision to formally terminate the £150 million contract with BAE Systems to build and commission three offshore patrol vessels (OPV) for use by the Coast Guard.
The deal entered into with VT Shipbuilding was signed by the previous People's National Movement (PNM) administration in April 2007, and was considered critical to the State's war on guns and drug running in our waters.
News that the State had pulled the plug on the purchases, however, came not from an official Government release, but through a statement BAE Systems issued to the United Kingdom stock exchange on Tuesday
Continue. ..http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Govt_scraps__billion_Coast_Guard_vessel_deal-103591334.html.
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Govt scraps $billion Coast Guard vessel deal
By Keino Swamber South Bureau
GOVERNMENT has taken a decision to formally terminate the £150 million contract with BAE Systems to build and commission three offshore patrol vessels (OPV) for use by the Coast Guard.
The deal entered into with VT Shipbuilding was signed by the previous People's National Movement (PNM) administration in April 2007, and was considered critical to the State's war on guns and drug running in our waters.
News that the State had pulled the plug on the purchases, however, came not from an official Government release, but through a statement BAE Systems issued to the United Kingdom stock exchange on Tuesday
Continue. ..http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Govt_scraps__billion_Coast_Guard_vessel_deal-103591334.html.
THis move does not make any sense to me
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Govt scraps $billion Coast Guard vessel deal
By Keino Swamber South Bureau
GOVERNMENT has taken a decision to formally terminate the £150 million contract with BAE Systems to build and commission three offshore patrol vessels (OPV) for use by the Coast Guard.
The deal entered into with VT Shipbuilding was signed by the previous People's National Movement (PNM) administration in April 2007, and was considered critical to the State's war on guns and drug running in our waters.
News that the State had pulled the plug on the purchases, however, came not from an official Government release, but through a statement BAE Systems issued to the United Kingdom stock exchange on Tuesday
Continue. ..http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Govt_scraps__billion_Coast_Guard_vessel_deal-103591334.html.
THis move does not make any sense to me
Then dat is y they do it.
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You cannot simply transfer soldiers and make them sailors..rubbish. Additionaly, the reason the T&T Coast Guard is in the position it is in is due to the leadership of the Coast Guard.
Our Defense Force is not different from Costa Rica...it is a Defense Force same as a National Guard, we doh have no army and no Navy to attach anyone.
The boats are needed and they will get them, do you feel that the PP dat dotish?
The T&T CG;s leadership once had an opportunity to refurbish CG5 and CG6, the Ministry was going to send those vessels to Sweden (thats where they first obtained them new0 to be refurbished and re-fitted, the T&T CG insisted they could do it themselves....result? The boats were eventually scrapped.
Whne it comes down, Martin Joseph has to listen to advice, he is NOT a Naval expert, he sent many officers overseas to study and become experts.
Imagine the T&T CG sent boats to Grenada to buy liquor for the Christmas party without Ministerial permission...no customs nutten!!
Piss poor leadership. none ah dem suckers wnat to make command decisions as they fraid....steups.
I didn’t vote for them but like you, I expected better than this. I thought Griffith and Sandy had more sense.
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You cannot simply transfer soldiers and make them sailors..rubbish. Additionaly, the reason the T&T Coast Guard is in the position it is in is due to the leadership of the Coast Guard.
Our Defense Force is not different from Costa Rica...it is a Defense Force same as a National Guard, we doh have no army and no Navy to attach anyone.
The boats are needed and they will get them, do you feel that the PP dat dotish?
The T&T CG;s leadership once had an opportunity to refurbish CG5 and CG6, the Ministry was going to send those vessels to Sweden (thats where they first obtained them new0 to be refurbished and re-fitted, the T&T CG insisted they could do it themselves....result? The boats were eventually scrapped.
Whne it comes down, Martin Joseph has to listen to advice, he is NOT a Naval expert, he sent many officers overseas to study and become experts.
Imagine the T&T CG sent boats to Grenada to buy liquor for the Christmas party without Ministerial permission...no customs nutten!!
Piss poor leadership. none ah dem suckers wnat to make command decisions as they fraid....steups.
I didn’t vote for them but like you, I expected better than this. I thought Griffith and Sandy had more sense.
OK all yuh did not live through d last UNC govt. D have no ideas what policy have they introduce dat makes sense.
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I hear on de radio Subash Panday saying he doh know anything about the contract being canceled.
So i dunno.
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I hear on de radio Subash Panday saying he doh know anything about the contract being canceled.
So i dunno.
The Wall Street Journal confirmed that BAE received notice of cancellation.
http://www.smartmoney.com/news/ON/?story=ON-20100921-000238&cid=1259 (http://www.smartmoney.com/news/ON/?story=ON-20100921-000238&cid=1259)
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I hear on de radio Subash Panday saying he doh know anything about the contract being canceled.
So i dunno.
The Wall Street Journal confirmed that BAE received notice of cancellation.
http://www.smartmoney.com/news/ON/?story=ON-20100921-000238&cid=1259 (http://www.smartmoney.com/news/ON/?story=ON-20100921-000238&cid=1259)
so what really going on? is either Subash clueless, or they lying, i highly doubt the news article fake
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Here's what I don't understand. According to Griffith the ships were unneccesary and other alternatives would be explored- Fine. Even if I accept that, 2 of the ships are ready and 1 will begin sea trials in November. Even if we no longer require the ships obviously we will still have to pay them (even if it's not the full cost). Just buy the ships and done.
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Here's what I don't understand. According to Griffith the ships were unneccesary and other alternatives would be explored- Fine. Even if I accept that, 2 of the ships are ready and 1 will begin sea trials in November. Even if we no longer require the ships obviously we will still have to pay them (even if it's not the full cost). Just buy the ships and done.
Well....not to mention the amount of hours spent training. I know a petty officer who was up england training for using it.....for MONTHS.
Dis is ridiculously stupid. Worse yet...it canceled with no announced alternative.
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lol!! being first timers an all, I expected these folks to be political neophytes....expecting missteps, protocol breaches etc....small ting
But dey really actin like some hillbillys chasin ah pig in a china shop
Everytime dem make ah move ah hearin banjos playin in de background
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I hear on de radio Subash Panday saying he doh know anything about the contract being canceled.
So i dunno.
The Wall Street Journal confirmed that BAE received notice of cancellation.
http://www.smartmoney.com/news/ON/?story=ON-20100921-000238&cid=1259 (http://www.smartmoney.com/news/ON/?story=ON-20100921-000238&cid=1259)
so what really going on? is either Subash clueless, or they lying, i highly doubt the news article fake
The Government hasn't announced anything at all. He could very well be out of loop and not lying.
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Here's what I don't understand. According to Griffith the ships were unneccesary and other alternatives would be explored- Fine. Even if I accept that, 2 of the ships are ready and 1 will begin sea trials in November. Even if we no longer require the ships obviously we will still have to pay them (even if it's not the full cost). Just buy the ships and done.
Well....not to mention the amount of hours spent training. I know a petty officer who was up england training for using it.....for MONTHS.
Dis is ridiculously stupid. Worse yet...it canceled with no announced alternative.
U know how much havoc them fellas causing. They have them fellas up they eh payin dem they allowance. Man wife left dem all kind a ting.lol!! being first timers an all, I expected these folks to be political neophytes....expecting missteps, protocol breaches etc....small ting
But dey really actin like some hillbillys chasin ah pig in a china shop
Everytime dem make ah move ah hearin banjos playin in de background
Pls don't disrespect hillbillys dey smarter than dem fellas.
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I am ambivalent. BAE did not complete the boast on time. I wonder if they were insisting TT gov't come up with more money. If that was the case, fooook BAE. They did not live up to the contract. We need more details of this whole scenario. Bakes and the rest of lawyers on the forum. Explain, clarify, verify!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I am ambivalent. BAE did not complete the boast on time. I wonder if they were insisting TT gov't come up with more money. If that was the case, fooook BAE. They did not live up to the contract. We need more details of this whole scenario. Bakes and the rest of lawyers on the forum. Explain, clarify, verify!!!!!!!!!!!!
Because of production overruns? Please... that happens all the time. Even when I was working as a consultant with HUD and DoD we'd fall behind on our projects. There are incentives and disincentives built into every professionally managed project. There are penalties to be paid when you don't present your deliverables on time. Deliverables are certain "products" that you present to the client along the life of the project. For instance, with these ships a couple deliverables might (I dunno the first thing about shipbuilding) have been:
- Hulls on OPV San Fernando to be completed by December 14, 2009
- Navigational systems on OPV San Fernando installed by March 31, 2010
- Weaponry installed and tested on OPV San Fernando by June 1, 2010
etc. You get incentive for delivering on time and disincentives (penalties) for failing to do so.
Contracts is not my specialty but I know enough to say with confidence that no court in the world will void/terminate a contract on the basis of production delays or cost overruns. The party delivering the product would be forced to absorb some of the costs associated with such non-performance... assuming that they are responsible for the delays. Sometimes the buyer (the person placing the order) is responsible for the delays. For instance, if the seller (manufacturer) needs certain specifications in order to deliver the product on time, and the buyer is slow to produce those specs then the delay is charged to the buyer and they have to absorb the costs.
This to me smacks of a very naive move. I cannot speak too conclusively because at the end of the day the Gov't have experienced lawyers advising it. However, as presented in the media thus far, this is just the latest in a string of puzzling maddening moves by this government. Is like they just dismantling and scrapping thing out of spite... because is PNM who start it they feel they must move in de opposite direction. As I said before, this thing threatening to cost the people of TnT A LOT of money. Imagine the kinda high powered contract and international sales lawyers BAE will hire. Imagine the kinda fees this case will generate. Imagine the size of the bill TnT will have to come up with if a court rules agains us ("us" because is all ah TnT to ketch fuh dis PP gov't bout ah malkady). We'd have to live up to the terms of the contract, take delivery, pay additional costs arising from the delay in taking delivery, pay penalties... and pay BAE lawyer fees... which alone could run into millions.
People could say I nitpicking or bias or whatever... I doh care which party in charge, this threatens shame us on the international stage, making us look like some backward ass country with no understanding, let alone regard for the law. As if the financial costs themselves wouldn't be enough.
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Yeah, yuh talk sense dey BnS, seems like de major motivation of de PP is to prove how bad of a regime de PNM was, as opposed to truly governin, here we go again....and eh, I eh no PNM nor PP fan
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making us look like some backward ass country with no understanding, let alone regard for the law.
LOL. But isn't this actually the case?
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making us look like some backward ass country with no understanding, let alone regard for the law.
LOL. But isn't this actually the case?
YEPPPPPPP
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making us look like some backward ass country with no understanding, let alone regard for the law.
LOL. But isn't this actually the case?
I know you probably saying this in jest but no, this is not the case at all. Any understanding of the contributions made to international law by Karl Hudson-Phillips and ANR Robinson among others would reveal as much.
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Kamla: Govt doesn't owe one cent for OPVs
PRIME MINISTER Kamla Persad-Bissessar said yesterday the Government does not owe a cent to BAE Systems, the United Kingdom company contracted to build three multi-billion-dollar offshore patrol vessels (OPVs).
In fact, Persad-Bissessar says BAE owes this country $61 million in damages and will have to repay every cent the Government invested in the project over the past few years.
She was responding to a statement by head of external communication at BAE Kristina Crowe last week, which indicated cost overruns on the deal would mean Government would have to pay an additional £150 million, before tax, on the deal. This, she said, meant the Government was owning BAE £300 million before it terminated the contract.
Contacted yesterday for further comment, Crowe issued the following statement and referred us back to the regulatory announcement issued on Septem- ber 21 on the London Stock Exchange website.
"We have received written notice from the Government of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago (GORTT) that it wishes to cancel the programme under which BAE Systems is providing three offshore patrol vessels and support to the Trinidad and Tobago Coast Guard. We are seeking to engage in commercial discussions with GORTT and hope to reach an equitable settlement," the statement read.
Speaking to the media at Piarco after returning from her trip to the United States yesterday, Persad-Bissessar said after careful analysis of the project and the substantial breaches in contract by BAE, a decision was taken to cancel the contract since the OPVs could not assist the country in its fight against crime.
The former People's National Movement (PNM) government signed a £150 million contract in April 2007 with VT Shipbuilding to build and commission the vessels. In October last year, BAE acquired full control of VT.
A few months ago, an interministerial committee, which included National Security Minister Brigadier John Sandy and Attorney General Anand Ramlogan, was set up to review the purchase of the OPVs.
Sandy subsequently said he hoped to convince the committee to purchase the vessels since he believed they would be needed in the current fight against crime.
Persad-Bissessar's statement yesterday was the first from any Government official since BAE announced Government had cancelled the purchase of the assets. She said before BAE's statement, her Government could not make public their decision to terminate the contract because of a particular non-disclosure clause in the contract that preven- ted Government from doing so. Government, she said, would meet with officials from BAE but remains firm in its decision to terminate the contract.
"There are stories that I have been reading that we owe BAE money and we breached the contract. No, that is not the case at all. I am advised that BAE is in breach of the contract because of two reasons.
"They (BAE) are in breach because of delay, which was the most substantial cause we have to termination of the contract, but they are also in breach because they have not been able to comply with the specs that had been contracted for," she said.
She said the Government was of the opinion such assets would not assist in making any dent in the crime situation and was also not in a position to fund the vessels.
Steps have already been taken to bring back home more than 60 sailors in the UK, who are training there to operate the OPVs, she said.
Such money, Persad-Bissessar said, could be utilised in ensuring law enforcement officers are adequately compensated for their services.
"There are several things that we had to consider. Do we need three OPVs? The country is not at war out in the seas; the country is at war on the ground, in our streets and in the towns within Trinidad and Tobago. The cost to maintain the vessels would have cost taxpayers in excess of $500 million annually. Our country cannot sustain that at this time," she said.
Persad-Bissessar said the Government had an option to waiver the breach in contracts by BAE, but it would not be in the best interest of the citizenry to do so since "there were better things" the money could be put to.
"We feel that we could better spend that money right here on the ground to fight crime, to pay police officers more money, pay the Defence Force more money, to pay the prisons officers more. To get equipment and, of course, food and hospitals beds," the PM said.
"There is the view that these huge OPVs will not assist in the fight against crime because first, they are slow and are visible from way off. You could see them from far off, so these narco (narcotic) traffickers who may be coming and illegal gun-runners (who) may be coming, what may be more useful is the smaller, faster cutters."
She, however, made it clear the Government will not abandon the needs of its naval and air support units. Government, she said, still intends to proceed with the purchase of four Agusta Westland AW139 twin-turbine helicopters at a cost of $2.3 billion for the T&T Air Guard, to be used for search-and-rescue, surface surveillance, law enforcement, drug interdiction and disaster relief operations.
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Kamla__Govt_doesn_t_owe_one_cent_for_OPVs-104056313.html
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Contractor refers to supplier of the products or services. Company refers to issuer of contract.
There are 5 standard ways to terminate a contract.
Contractor’s Default
A contractor defaults on the contract if it fails to meet the obligations set forth in the contract. The definition is included in the contract, for example the contract may state the contractor has 10 days after receipt of written notice provided by company to undertake corrective action. Failure to correct the problem allows the company the right to terminate the contract. The company can deduct the cost for completing the work from any money owed to the contractor, and back-charge the contractor if the cost of completing work exceeds the amount of money not yet paid to the contractor.
Contractor Insolvency
The company has the right to terminate a contract if the contractor becomes insolvent (i.e. files a bankruptcy petition).
Company’s Choice
The company can terminate a contract at any time and for any reason, with or without fault on the part of the contractor. In this case, the company pays for all work completed up till the date of termination, this also includes reasonable costs incurred in preparation for work not yet performed and in shutting down operations.
Contractor’s Choice
Sometimes a contractor will respond to the above by requesting this bi-lateral provision. In contract negotiations you will find companies omit company’s choice when the contractor requests contractor’s choice if the company does not have alternative options to replace contractor if contractor terminates contract.
Contractor Termination for Company Default
Contractor can terminate contract if company defaults on meeting contractual obligations (i.e. nonpayment of undisputed invoice). Of course, there must be notice given and a specified time period for company to make payment prior to termination action.
Then there is an additional clause in contracts: force majeure. This is becoming a very common inclusion in contract T&C and is basically the “sixth” way to terminate a contract. This is often referred to as the “Act of God” clause which basically frees parties from liability when an event beyond their control happens. Events such as earthquakes, volcanic eruption, etc. A recent example was the drilling moratorium as a result of the BP Macondo oil spill; several oil companies stopped projects so they will not have to pay day rates on rigs in the GOM.
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"There is the view that these huge OPVs will not assist in the fight against crime because first, they are slow and are visible from way off. You could see them from far off, so these narco (narcotic) traffickers who may be coming and illegal gun-runners (who) may be coming, what may be more useful is the smaller, faster cutters."
From what I heard is that these boat can stay out at sea for a long period. And are thy not supposed to have speed boats and or helicopters on them so they can go after or deter these trafficers? Correct me!!
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Real Madness,
Did the Manning administration did anything, such as changing the specs of the vessels while inproduction that caused the delay? If they did then it appears BAE has a case. Kamla and them have to be pretty sure they could terminate this contract to proceed with it.
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Real Madness,
Did the Manning administration did anything, such as changing the specs of the vessels while inproduction that caused the delay? If they did then it appears BAE has a case. Kamla and them have to be pretty sure they could terminate this contract to proceed with it.
Deeks, even if Manning and them didn't change the specs... leh we assume the delay is 100% on BAE, Kamla and dem still have to give BAE an opportunity to "cure" or make the contract right again. Doesn't seem as though that has occurred. Besides, the proper remedy isn't termination, rather a court will let the contract proceed and award damages to the GORTT if BAE is indeed in breach. In other words, BAE would have to eat all of the costs of the overrun under that scenario. The preference is always in favor of performance on the contract. Termination is a drop dead last resort... not a first as Kamla and dem seem to be pushing.
I really not surprise... so far Anand Ramlogan coming up with some real fishy legal advice, from the Ish Galbaransingh/Steve Furguson extradition case, to the comments about hanging to the Volney/CJ dispute (ah sure Anand have they ear behind the scene) to even the WC dispute (I sure Jack ask Anand fuh advice on dat too). But I just watching de scene fuh now.
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I blame manning for all this. instead ah the duncy a$$ man stay the time and finalize all his project including the rapid rail, the jackoff gone and callin early election following some dotish soothsayer. i will never understand ppl of color nah, is too much ego @ work, on both sides, PP and PNM.
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Let me tell all yuh what also bothering me about this cancelled contract. The Min of Nat'l Security didn't know about it and the Junior Minister didn't know either and he (Panday) said it was not a cabinet decision. So the PM took the decision to cancel the contract on whose advice?? Gary Griffith?? But he not in cabinet....so is wha going orn??!! ???
But say wha....let me stop nitpicking..... ::) ::)
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"There is the view that these huge OPVs will not assist in the fight against crime because first, they are slow and are visible from way off. You could see them from far off, so these narco (narcotic) traffickers who may be coming and illegal gun-runners (who) may be coming, what may be more useful is the smaller, faster cutters."
From what I heard is that these boat can stay out at sea for a long period. And are thy not supposed to have speed boats and or helicopters on them so they can go after or deter these trafficers? Correct me!!
How bigger US Navy ships effective in all parts of the world doing the same ting? Jes look at Somalia.
The fact is you use those vessels to launch smaller platforms and arieal recon. Dumb ass talk.
You cannot send small vessels that far out an dfor extended periods.
Additionally the mission of the T&T CG ios also to help in SAR (Search and Resue) and environmental prtection...who is de c**t who say dey too big?
That is why they were also supplimented with the purchase of close to 16 smaller intercept vessels...steups
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horrible idea on the cancellation
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Every 5 years trinis get together and think to themselves "how can we f**k up up this country once again". SO we voted. We voted for 3000 dollar pension, laptop for our children and plastics and solar in la brea not to forget tunnels to Maracas. So with more ppl going to maracas I would expect the price of Bake and shark to increase.
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Every 5 years trinis get together and think to themselves "how can we f**k up up this country once again". SO we voted. We voted for 3000 dollar pension, laptop for our children and plastics and solar in la brea not to forget tunnels to Maracas. So with more ppl going to maracas I would expect the price of Bake and shark to increase.
Richard go b happy.
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Every 5 years trinis get together and think to themselves "how can we f**k up up this country once again". SO we voted. We voted for 3000 dollar pension, laptop for our children and plastics and solar in la brea not to forget tunnels to Maracas. So with more ppl going to maracas I would expect the price of Bake and shark to increase.
It wasn't 5 years this time eh.....thanks to Patos, who still never tell we why he called the election that early.....
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http://www.trinidadexpress.com/commentaries/Time_to_hear_about_anti-drugs_plan-104126424.html
Time to hear about anti-drugs plan
Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar has at last confirmed cancellation of the now-controversial order for three Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs). The Government has released itself from the contractual non-disclosure clause—a clause to which, peculiarly, the suppliers were apparently not bound.
From the Prime Minister's remarks, the justification appears to be based on a People's Partnership re-evaluation that downgraded the potential usefulness of the vessels in the fight against drug- and gun-running.
This decision has opened what could be a long-running dispute between the Government and the shipbuilders over who owes whom, and how much. BAE Systems is claiming an additional £150 million (over TT$1.5 billion) while the Government says that BAE owes this country the money already paid, as well as $61 million in damages, because of delays and inability to meet the vessel specifications. Assuming both sides remain adamant, the matter will very likely head to international court.
Meanwhile, the country needs assurances that the new administration has found a more cost-effective and more workable option than its predecessor, in terms of capital and recurrent expenditure, to defend Trinidad and Tobago's waters and shorelines against international drug and gun trafficking, issues to which the Prime Minister last week eloquently sought to rally the world at the United Nations.
The previous regime, which commissioned the OPVs, had a predilection for high-tech and high-priced crime solutions, none of which was able to arrest the crime spiral during their nine years in office (unless one accepts the tendentious argument that crime would have been worse without the blimps, towers, radar, etc).
Mrs Persad-Bissessar also cited maintenance costs "more than $500 million every year" for the contract's cancellation. Even in the boom years, this expenditure should have raised eyebrows. It may be rhetorically acceptable to talk about the fight against drugs as though no cost should be spared, but all responsible governments have to weigh costs and benefits in policy-making. The illegal drug trade exacts a high price in terms of human misery, official corruption, undermining good governance, and skewing the economy. But would the OPVs' $500 million in annual maintenance pay returns, or would such an expenditure drain funds that could be more effectively spent to reduce drug trafficking and drug demand?
Nonetheless, drugs and guns remain scourges to our society, and the People's Partnership must now publicise and implement its proposed measures to control this pernicious trade. The government must also give a full account of all the money spent so far on the OPV deal, what are the penalties for not receiving the vessels, state whether a proper assessment was done before the decision was taken to ditch the contract, the cost to taxpayers and the risk exposure to the country.
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Every 5 years trinis get together and think to themselves "how can we f**k up up this country once again". SO we voted. We voted for 3000 dollar pension, laptop for our children and plastics and solar in la brea not to forget tunnels to Maracas. So with more ppl going to maracas I would expect the price of Bake and shark to increase.
It wasn't 5 years this time eh.....thanks to Patos, who still never tell we why he called the election that early.....
All yuh blaming Patos 4 callin an early election. D man give we 2 option put him bck or throw him out. We throw him out so we have 2 live wit what we do. If yuh eh popular like Patos he do d right ting call d election let d people decide. Dey decide now live wit d decision.
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Every 5 years trinis get together and think to themselves "how can we f**k up up this country once again". SO we voted. We voted for 3000 dollar pension, laptop for our children and plastics and solar in la brea not to forget tunnels to Maracas. So with more ppl going to maracas I would expect the price of Bake and shark to increase.
It wasn't 5 years this time eh.....thanks to Patos, who still never tell we why he called the election that early.....
All yuh blaming Patos 4 callin an early election. D man give we 2 option put him bck or throw him out. We throw him out so we have 2 live wit what we do. If yuh eh popular like Patos he do d right ting call d election let d people decide. Dey decide now live wit d decision.
I eh blaming him. But even people in he own party eh know to this day why he took them down that road. Simple, it was his friggin ego why he call the election. That bleeeeppppp!!!!....
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Every 5 years trinis get together and think to themselves "how can we f**k up up this country once again". SO we voted. We voted for 3000 dollar pension, laptop for our children and plastics and solar in la brea not to forget tunnels to Maracas. So with more ppl going to maracas I would expect the price of Bake and shark to increase.
It wasn't 5 years this time eh.....thanks to Patos, who still never tell we why he called the election that early.....
All yuh blaming Patos 4 callin an early election. D man give we 2 option put him bck or throw him out. We throw him out so we have 2 live wit what we do. If yuh eh popular like Patos he do d right ting call d election let d people decide. Dey decide now live wit d decision.
I eh blaming him. But even people in he own party eh know to this day why he took them down that road. Simple, it was his friggin ego why he call the election. That bleeeeppppp!!!!....
[/quote
Yep he dotish but who more dotish we 4 puttin dem fellas there now?
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BRITISH GOVT STEPS IN
T&T to be asked to buy at least one OPV
By Akile Simon akile.simon@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Oct 6, 2010 at 11:46 PM ECT
THE BRITISH Government has stepped in the negotiations involving BAE Systems and the Trinidad and Tobago Government after Government decided to cancel the purchase of three Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs).
The Express understands that efforts are being made for a representative of the British Government to meet with Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar to facilitate and/or convince this Government to at least accept one of the vessels, which has an estimated cost of $800 million.
Persad-Bissessar is expected to travel to London next week as chairperson of the Commonwealth Heads of Government, and wants Attorney General Anand Ramlogan to accompany her on that trip to lead discussions with officials of BAE and the British Government regarding the OPVs, sources said...
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/BRITISH_GOVT_STEPS_IN-104461304.html
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I figured there would be some fallout.
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I figured there would be some fallout.
This fallout could go both ways...either they intending on wielding some big stick to get the deal done or they need the business and lobbyin to get dey balls squeeze-- (c) dinho
On the other hand the fact that we PM have to go to them,probably does not bode well.
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I figured there would be some fallout.
Well, it's a huge contract. 150 million pounds sterling is a lot of money and the British government has a good relationship with TnT her former colony. Seems like they're trying to go the diplomatic route and negotiate on behalf of a citizen corporation. Is almost like a parent mediating between two children. Other than that the British government has no real stake in the matter... save for maybe the corporate taxes that BAE would pay on the deal. Too bad this government didn't try the same diplomatic/mediation route first.
I still don't see how they could win the suit that sure to follow. I really don't. Another thing, someone mentioned it in the comments section and it struck a note. Why she have Anand with she 'negotiating'? He's Attorney General yes, and maybe in Trinidad things function differently but an Attorney General is largely a prosecutorial role... he's not government counsel, which is how Kamla seems to be using him. Not to single them out, I dunno if Jeremie and previous Attorneys General functioned in the same capacity. Generally speaking an Attorney General is not a jack-of-all trades... they need to be seeking external guidance (and maybe they are) on these matters. Kamla she self is a former AG, she cyah negotiate without Anand by she side?
Side note... she flying out again, lol. Kamla like she trying tuh break Travis Travel record.
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I figured there would be some fallout.
Well, it's a huge contract. 150 million pounds sterling is a lot of money and the British government has a good relationship with TnT her former colony. Seems like they're trying to go the diplomatic route and negotiate on behalf of a citizen corporation. Is almost like a parent mediating between two children. Other than that the British government has no real stake in the matter... save for maybe the corporate taxes that BAE would pay on the deal. Too bad this government didn't try the same diplomatic/mediation route first.
I still don't see how they could win the suit that sure to follow. I really don't. Another thing, someone mentioned it in the comments section and it struck a note. Why she have Anand with she 'negotiating'? He's Attorney General yes, and maybe in Trinidad things function differently but an Attorney General is largely a prosecutorial role... he's not government counsel, which is how Kamla seems to be using him. Not to single them out, I dunno if Jeremie and previous Attorneys General functioned in the same capacity. Generally speaking an Attorney General is not a jack-of-all trades... they need to be seeking external guidance (and maybe they are) on these matters. Kamla she self is a former AG, she cyah negotiate without Anand by she side?
Side note... she flying out again, lol. Kamla like she trying tuh break Travis Travel record.
I really don't have a problem with the AG going along. She must have confidence in him for good reason.
The major reason for trip is for a Commonwealth meeting. The PM of T&T is currently the chairman so she had to go. She has to keep everybody happy so someone else is getting a turn at the wheel.
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I really don't have a problem with the AG going along. She must have conidence in him for good reason.
The major reason for trip is for a Commonwealth meeting. The PM of T&T is currently the chairman so she had to go. She has to keep everybody happy so someone else is getting a turn at the wheel.
I ent have a problem with him going... she must have company. My question is more one of whether he's qualified to lead negotiations on contractual issues. Just because yuh have the title of lawyer doesn't make you a jack of all trades within the profession, any more than having MD means you're competent to practice in every area. Any lawyer worth their salt can become up to speed on the relevant area of the law, but on such an important matter I would have preferred if she had taken along someone with more expertise in the field.
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I really don't have a problem with the AG going along. She must have conidence in him for good reason.
The major reason for trip is for a Commonwealth meeting. The PM of T&T is currently the chairman so she had to go. She has to keep everybody happy so someone else is getting a turn at the wheel.
I ent have a problem with him going... she must have company. My question is more one of whether he's qualified to lead negotiations on contractual issues. Just because yuh have the title of lawyer doesn't make you a jack of all trades within the profession, any more than having MD means you're competent to practice in every area. Any lawyer worth their salt can become up to speed on the relevant area of the law, but on such an important matter I would have preferred if she had taken along someone with more expertise in the field.
Is the Min of National Security or the Junior Min or the man who really running the show, Capt. Gary Griffith going??
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I really don't have a problem with the AG going along. She must have conidence in him for good reason.
The major reason for trip is for a Commonwealth meeting. The PM of T&T is currently the chairman so she had to go. She has to keep everybody happy so someone else is getting a turn at the wheel.
I ent have a problem with him going... she must have company. My question is more one of whether he's qualified to lead negotiations on contractual issues. Just because yuh have the title of lawyer doesn't make you a jack of all trades within the profession, any more than having MD means you're competent to practice in every area. Any lawyer worth their salt can become up to speed on the relevant area of the law, but on such an important matter I would have preferred if she had taken along someone with more expertise in the field.
Is the Min of National Security or the Junior Min or the man who really running the show, Capt. Gary Griffith going??
How he still around....I know he was around UNC because he was getting to touch panday daughter behind de potted palm
but who he feelin up now?
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In the land of the blind, the one eye man is king.. ;)
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what mkaes Griffith a captain?
He is NOT a captain...which is really just a lietenant in the CG!
He did not retire so he should NOT be referred to as captain....unless is captain crunch
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what mkaes Griffith a captain?
He is NOT a captain...which is really just a lietenant in the CG!
He did not retire so he should NOT be referred to as captain....unless is captain crunch
Boy ah deliberately put een the Capt. cuz apparently it mean a lot to the poor fella to have a title to he name. He doh like jackass, dotish, stupid, arrogant, know-it-all-while-knowing-nutten and besides with this bunch, all those were already taken.... ::)
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He is an extremely intelligent fella eh, and great at managing projects...that are within his scope and area of expertise.
He seeks to educate himself, but he comes off as a big haughty at times. I happen to be friendly with him and have little problems with him, except that he is not doing the country service if he is indeed the one behind the scrapping of these vessels.
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Sandy: International criminals preying on 'borderless' Caribbean
By Joel Julien joel.julien@trinidadexpress.com
Story Updated: Oct 8, 2010 at 12:53 AM ECT
INTERNATIONAL criminals prey on the Caribbean region because the more developed countries are strengthening their borders, National Security Minister Brigadier John Sandy said yesterday.
Sandy's statement comes on the heels of Government's decision to terminate the £150 million contract with BAE Systems to build and commission three Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs) for use by this country's Coast Guard.
In 2007 the former PNM government signed a £150 million contract with VT Shipbuilding to build and commission the vessels. In October last year, BAE acquired full control of VT.
The Express understands that the British Government intends to intervene in the negotiations in an effort to facilitate and/or convince this Government to at least accept one of the vessels, which has an estimated cost of $800 million.
"In reality crime has become globalised. In the Caribbean Basin for example the challenge of avoiding the scourge of the illicit narcotic trade the attendant laundering of funds as well as other international criminal activities has been amplified alongside globalisation," Sandy said.
"These international crimes thrive on the concept of a borderless world. While the more developed countries strengthen their defence against the invasion of such criminal activities, perpetrators are diverting their attention to the Caribbean region," he said.
"This region's size, its archipelagic design and strategic geographic location has increased its vulnerability as a transshipment point between the producing countries of South America and the consuming countries of North America and Europe."
Sandy said one reported example of this was when a yacht containing 1.5 tonnes of cocaine worth close to $1 billion left Chaguaramas and was intercepted by Spanish law enforcement officials off the coast of Cadiz, Portugal last month.
"The illicit trafficking of drugs and its accompanying firearms trade are among the most visible form of serious crime in Trinidad and Tobago," Sandy said.
Sandy said the National Security Ministry is pursuing "both supply and demand reduction initiative including border control initiatives."
Sandy said the Government will also be working on strategies to reduce the nation's vulnerability to Cyber Crime.
A National Cyber Security Strategy is in the process of being developed and an Inter Ministerial Committee has been approved by Cabinet to oversee the initiative, he said.
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Sandy__International_criminals_preying_on__borderless__Caribbean-104548679.html
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these people not making no sense nah
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Sandy: International criminals preying on 'borderless' Caribbean
By Joel Julien joel.julien@trinidadexpress.com
"The illicit trafficking of drugs and its accompanying firearms trade are among the most visible form of serious crime in Trinidad and Tobago," Sandy said.
This right here... like much of what Sandy said resonates with me. This is why I couldn't make sense of the comment in another discussion that the smuggling of drugs was somehow the problem of Europe and North America... that Trinidad didn't need no offshore patrol boats.
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of the few major cocaine or drug busts we had here, anyone (by that i mean rich man) ever get charged?
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PM open to dialogue on OPVs
http://www.youtube.com/v/V9gmuE58WbY
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We only really need one OPV, and about 15 more interceptor craft truth be told.
Lets get it then Kamla
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these people not making no sense nah
U song surprise?
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It’s official: OPVs cancelled
Govt to get back $61m in damages
Gail Alexander
Published: 16 Oct 2010
Government stands to receive $61 million in damages as well as a “significant refund of money” on the Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs) which have been cancelled, National Security Minister John Sandy said yesterday. Speaking in the House of Representatives Sandy officially confirmed that a September 16 Cabinet decision agreed that the Ministers of Finance and National Security and Attorney General terminated all contractual arrangements regarding procurement of the three OPVs. His confirmation came in response to questions on the status of the OPVs by PNM MP Colm Imbert. Sandy said Government had determined, based on shipbuilder BAE Systems’ “serious and persistent delays and technical deficiencies,” that Government’s best interests were not being served and therefore it should exercise its contractual rights of cancellation. Notice of cancellation was served on September 17 with a 30 days notice period ahead of cancellation.
The contract value for the OPV project was $2.1 billion. The three vessels were to have been delivered between March 2009 to August 2010. Sandy said in cancelling the contract, Government was exercising contractual rights expressly negotiated and agreed with BAE. “These rights were designed to protect Government in circumstances where the Government is left with no other remedy,” Sandy added. He said Government was not “saddled with a $3 billion debt” as reported in some quarters. Sandy said: “If Government were cancelling the contract for its own convenience then it would owe money to BAE but this is not the case. Government is cancelling by reason of BAE’s fault. “Because of the delays, damages of over $61 million are already now overdue and payable by BAE to Government. “Additionally when the cancellation notice takes effect, the Government will become entitled, among other things, to a significant refund of moneys paid to BAE for the undelivered vessels,”.
Sandy said the decision to terminate the programme was “a difficult one preceded by extensive deliberations among key stakeholders.” He said concerns were raised about the OPVs in early 2010, regarding the capabilities of the vessels’ combat system. “By then,” Sandy said, “the first OPV was already more than nine months late and BAE had announced anticipated delays with the other two.” Sandy added: “These concerns crystallised with sea trials for the first OPV in May when it became clear that BAE was unable to demonstrate that the combat system had the required capabilities. “These are capabilities that BAE committed to provide in the contract for all three vessels,”. He said BAE proposed that Government take delivery of the defective vessels, despite that the combat system defects would materially prejudice the vessels’ operational capabilities. “BAE”s proposals for rectification after delivery did not provide the Government with sufficient assurance that BAE knew with any certainty either how or when it would be able to resolve the problems,” Sandy added.
Faced with yet further delayed delivery dates announced by BAE in August, he said Government concluded there was too great a risk that the project would fail to meet its strategic objectives, Sandy said. He said T&T’s interests could not be compromised through acceptance of vessels which could not perform to the agreed specification. Sandy said the first breach of contract occurred in 2009 when the former PNM Government began confirming delays for the three vessels. In light of the cancellation, Sandy said Cabinet had undertaken review of the complete range of T&T’s naval and aviation assets to determine the mandatory operational needs of the Defence Force and protective services “with a view to supplementing same, if necessary.” Asked by Imbert whether the defects in the OPVs were enough to destroy the entire OPV project, Sandy said: “No.” However, Sandy added he would not buy a defective car, especially one with a defect that interfered with a firing capacity. “It ought not to be acquired,” Sandy added.
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=1396356196966#%2F
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Government stands to receive $61 million in damages as well as a “significant refund of money” on the Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs) which have been cancelled, National Security Minister John Sandy said yesterday. Speaking in the House of Representatives Sandy officially confirmed that a September 16 Cabinet decision agreed that the Ministers of Finance and National Security and Attorney General terminated all contractual arrangements regarding procurement of the three OPVs.
uuuuuuummmm......so Sandy and Panday was lying when they said initially that they didn't know anything about a cancelled contract and that it wasn't a cabinet decision (although I think it was Panday who made that last statement so he may just not have known about the cabinet decision)......
Also, from Sandy's utterances over the past few weeks, I get the impression he eh agree with cancelling the contracts....<sigh> whatever yes....
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If they get out of this deal without paying a cent they get away big time.
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lol...Sandy car have firing capacities? lol
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lol...Sandy car have firing capacities? lol
...and ah ejector seat apparently ::)
I like how the headline making big conclusory pronouncements about how much money the government stands to recoup. Sandy heself talking as though it's already a done deal when in fact that's neither his nor the government's call to make.
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Another chapter in the saga....
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Scrapping_OPV_deal_a_wrong_call-105578418.html (http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Scrapping_OPV_deal_a_wrong_call-105578418.html)
Scrapping OPV deal a wrong call
By Ria Taitt Political Editor
"The Prime Minister is irresponsible, incompetent and she is under the direct control of persons with whom she is too familiar," Opposition Leader Dr Keith Rowley stated yesterday as he slammed Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar and her national security adviser, Gary Griffith, for the cancellation of the Offshore Patrol Vessels contract. He was speaking on a private motion in the House of Representatives, which asked the House to express its "deep disappointment and serious concern" over the Government's decision to scrap the purchase of the OPVs and to call on Government to do what was necessary to effectively secure the Trinidad and Tobago coastline.
Rowley said public decision-making was being based "not on clear judgment but on sound bites and other considerations such as political expediency and possibly worse (than that)".
He noted that while Minister of National Security John Sandy had told the media he was in favour of the acquisition of the vessels because they were key in the fight against crime, Griffith, who was the "first Government spokesperson" to address the OPV issue, was against the acquisition. "Clearly Griffith has more authority in the Cabinet than the Minister," Rowley said. The Opposition Leader said Griffith was a soldier "whose claim to fame was that he was sent to the Prime Minister house (during the Panday era) to be head of the household, in charge of pots, pans, gas and car and he got so familiar with the household that he became part of the household". Rowley said the Prime Minister's statements that the vessels were not needed because they were too slow, too big and that the war was not in the seas, but on the ground, were childish and showed a "complete misunderstanding of the assignment that she has to carry out".
"And on the basis of this misunderstanding she is open to being misled by a soldier who tells her what she should and shouldn't buy," he declared.
Rowley said while this Government was also talking about delays (as a cause for cancelling the contract), it had not told the population the issue of delays had been already dealt with by the previous administration.
Said Rowley: "A document was signed by BAE in April 2010 where the previous (PNM) government, realising that there were delays taking place, sought to enforce the contract, met with BAE, enforced the clause in the contract and agreed by negotiation on a figure of $20,000 per day in damages for delay and it came (up) to $61 million. "This (People's Partnership) Cabinet didn't do anything. That was done by April 2010 and we didn't only get six million pounds sterling under the clause of damages. We negotiated and got nine million pounds sterling, almost $100 million, and we took it in equipment, maintenance and training. So when you hear the Government talking about delays. "The lawyers (for BAE) are laughing because up until April, the Government of Trinidad and Tobago had dealt with the matter of delays. One month later, these uninformed, uninitiated persons (in the Government) believe that they could take back what was signed on April 20. What we are facing is lawyers going to court to argue that this matter was dealt with and there was a signed contract between BAE and Trinidad and Tobago which agreed on what would happen with respect to delays."
Noting that the Sultan of Brunei had unsuccessfully attempted to cancel a contract with BAE, Rowley said: "If we think that BAE would give us a pass, a bligh, especially since the Prime Minister has made the case for the BAE lawyers, I expect that if the Government cancels this contract, we would be heading for the courts and we wouldn't have many legs to stand on."
He said the Offshore Patrol Programme was an integral part of the country's development, as it was one of national security. He said recently he was speaking to a major captain of industry in energy who confirmed they had a concern about the country's ability to protect its assets offshore and for good reason. "We are now going farther and farther offshore to search for oil and gas. We have some of our major installations outside the 12-mile zone. The vessels we have in our hand now could hardly do a one-day patrol in those seas out there. We are going into the deep water in the bid round that is on the way, so very soon we would be going further out into the Atlantic Ocean," he said.
"If we are successful we would have installations out there. And what this Cabinet is saying to us is that our lifeline could be out there, but we are unable to purchase the equipment required in order to protect our heart valves."
The part where he talked about the delays already being dealt with by the previous administration was real interesting. I caught most of this on the Parliamnent Channel yesterday. Now I eh no fancy lawyer, and I eh want to seem like ah nitpicking, but common sense telling me Kamla goh regret this decision.
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No we eh need no boat. Drugs getting sell on land. Dat come like yuh gone in subway to buy doubles.
Totally wrong place.
We will rise.
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Yuh know what always bothered me about the decision.
1. That we first heard about it from foreign.
2. That the Minister of National Security on two occasions stated that he was in support of it.
3. Cpt. Gary Griffith is apparently the one who opposed it.
4. Gary Griffith is not in Cabinet. So I guess Kamla she self carry the recommendations from Griffith into the cabinet meeting where the decision took place, I can only assume that Min. Sandy stated his feelings about the OPV's that we needed them but he was ignored anyway.
5. So who running the country?? Cabinet or Gary Griffith??
On another note, Rowley in Parliament yesterday quoted from a document where this PP government sought advice from the people with the technical knowledge in the Coast Guard. The recommendations were that we needed the OPV's. Obviously that was ignored.
So again I ask, who running the country??!!..... ??? :-\
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kamla too chupid
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"A document was signed by BAE in April 2010 where the previous (PNM) government, realising that there were delays taking place, sought to enforce the contract, met with BAE, enforced the clause in the contract and agreed by negotiation on a figure of $20,000 per day in damages for delay and it came (up) to $61 million. "This (People's Partnership) Cabinet didn't do anything. That was done by April 2010 and we didn't only get six million pounds sterling under the clause of damages. We negotiated and got nine million pounds sterling, almost $100 million, and we took it in equipment, maintenance and training. So when you hear the Government talking about delays. "The lawyers (for BAE) are laughing because up until April, the Government of Trinidad and Tobago had dealt with the matter of delays.
This is significant. I have been saying all along that you can't unilaterally terminate a contract and not expose yuhself to litigation. Here is it the PNM government went about things the right way, there was a breach and subsequent negotiations (apparently) resolved the issue, with BAE making concessions to the tune of $61 million. There was some additional 9 millions GBP ($89m TTD) that was negotiated and rather than accept payment in cash, the goverment accepted payment in equipment, maintenance and training. Very interesting.
Even if the PP thought this contract was a total waste... the only way to justify termination is if they calculate the damages they'd have to pay and figure it would be less than going thru with the contract. I doubth their calculations could be correct because the Court would likely calculate damages to be the value to BAE had the contract been performed as agreed... that and the fact that it's never really wise to gamble on what a court will award the other side... unless you absolutely sure of all the factors the Court will consider.
I could gloat and call Anand and dem schupid now... but in reality is we ass tuh ketch fuh this mistake (as I see it) they making yes.
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Bakes, what killing me is that party full of lawyers. Hell Kamla is a lawyer, so she eh know the ramifications of what she doing??!!
And the document Rowley quoted from is a cabinet document eh so if they really did all their checks they would have known about this arrangement by the PNM. I just waiting for the other shoe to drop on this one.....does BAE have a deadline by which to take legal action?? :thinking:
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http://www.trinidadexpress.com/commentaries/Imbert__Warner_with_a_lot_in_common-105614538.html
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This is significant. I have been saying all along that you can't unilaterally terminate a contract and not expose yuhself to litigation. Here is it the PNM government went about things the right way, there was a breach and subsequent negotiations (apparently) resolved the issue, with BAE making concessions to the tune of $61 million. There was some additional 9 millions GBP ($89m TTD) that was negotiated and rather than accept payment in cash, the goverment accepted payment in equipment, maintenance and training. Very interesting.
Even if the PP thought this contract was a total waste... the only way to justify termination is if they calculate the damages they'd have to pay and figure it would be less than going thru with the contract. I doubth their calculations could be correct because the Court would likely calculate damages to be the value to BAE had the contract been performed as agreed... that and the fact that it's never really wise to gamble on what a court will award the other side... unless you absolutely sure of all the factors the Court will consider.
I could gloat and call Anand and dem schupid now... but in reality is we ass tuh ketch fuh this mistake (as I see it) they making yes.
I was hoping they really found some hole to weasel us out of paying. We looking kinda bad right now and I think Rowley is right that BAE's law team will give us real wood. The government will either have to put their tail between their legs and buy the vessels or we will pay through our backside for no boats.
I keep on asking myself if its something I don't understand. Why would the PM make that decision ? Are things really that bad economically that we couldn't incur those expenses. If so ,how was she hoping to avoid paying ? It would be a shame to think this was just all about politics and bad mind. Consider that the persons with the expertise all say we need the vessels. Basically is everybody including the Minister Sandy wanted the OPVS, except Griffith of course.
This thing is more than just scoring political points. It's about our national security and taxpayers' money. Surely the PM missed the mark on both accounts.
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.....does BAE have a deadline by which to take legal action?? :thinking:
The window (or deadline) for bringing suit is called the statute of limitations. In England this is governed by the Limitations Act of 1980, which set the statute of limitations for filing a breach of contract claim at 6 yrs. So BAE would have until September (or whichever month it was Kamla make de announcement) 2016 to sue the TT government. They literally could twiddle their thumbs for the next 5 yrs, 364 days and file at midnight before the appointed hour.
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This thing is more than just scoring political points. It's about our national security and taxpayers' money. Surely the PM missed the mark on both accounts.
The kinda financial penalty we looking at will make all the "Summit was wasteful" talk irrelevant. Just consider that the value of the contract alone was £150 million... that's what $1.5 billion TT? Not even counting penalties and/or damages.
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"A document was signed by BAE in April 2010 where the previous (PNM) government, realising that there were delays taking place, sought to enforce the contract, met with BAE, enforced the clause in the contract and agreed by negotiation on a figure of $20,000 per day in damages for delay and it came (up) to $61 million. "This (People's Partnership) Cabinet didn't do anything. That was done by April 2010 and we didn't only get six million pounds sterling under the clause of damages. We negotiated and got nine million pounds sterling, almost $100 million, and we took it in equipment, maintenance and training. So when you hear the Government talking about delays. "The lawyers (for BAE) are laughing because up until April, the Government of Trinidad and Tobago had dealt with the matter of delays.
This is significant. I have been saying all along that you can't unilaterally terminate a contract and not expose yuhself to litigation. Here is it the PNM government went about things the right way, there was a breach and subsequent negotiations (apparently) resolved the issue, with BAE making concessions to the tune of $61 million. There was some additional 9 millions GBP ($89m TTD) that was negotiated and rather than accept payment in cash, the goverment accepted payment in equipment, maintenance and training. Very interesting.
Even if the PP thought this contract was a total waste... the only way to justify termination is if they calculate the damages they'd have to pay and figure it would be less than going thru with the contract. I doubth their calculations could be correct because the Court would likely calculate damages to be the value to BAE had the contract been performed as agreed... that and the fact that it's never really wise to gamble on what a court will award the other side... unless you absolutely sure of all the factors the Court will consider.
I could gloat and call Anand and dem schupid now... but in reality is we ass tuh ketch fuh this mistake (as I see it) they making yes.
First off I think people giving Griffith too much credit here and I'm not saying you are Bakes.
To me it would be very very wrong for the Government to make a decision of terminating this contract without some very sound legal advice, the solicitor general's office is where these issues end up and in my experience they are very thorough and have a long history behind them with which to refer, also they would normally seek consultation and advice from lawyers in private practice.
The contract would have been between GOTT and the supplier , the Permanent Secretary would have signed on behalf of GOTT, the PS's legal advisor would be the SG.
For PP to get a public servant (PS) to sign off on termination, a couple of things would have to happen, legal advice would have to be obtained and a note to cabinet would have been written and approved (this note written by public servants and vetted by the PS ) .
If PP was able to bypass advice from the SG, then the problems we have are much much bigger than this issue.
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Truth be told, the matter is a troubling one. Three OPV's were really a bit much from the start. If one was to look at the size of the vessels,the number of men it takes to man them, the daily operating costs as well as the fact that the T&T Cost Guard does not have a budget large enough to operate three OPVs we have a problem.
The decision to purchase 3 OPVs was a nole one and made because it was in keeping with Vision 2020.
T&T was supposed to be moving towards developed nation status, and to do so we had to be able to patrol all our terrirtorial waters, make sure we could moitor our fisheries, protect our off-shore platforms, monitor waters for environmental issues, provide search and resue platforms, ensure we had the ability to secure our borders, provide drug alcohol and arms interdiction, and as we moved to a greater position as a regional leader, lend support to our smaller, less industrial and less financially capable neighbours.
Another huge responsibility was disaster relief in the region. So if we closely examine the reasoning behind the initial decision to purchase the OPVs we see a very noble ideal.
Trinidad and Tobago is an archipelego and as such it is very difficult to closely monitor for drugs and arms smuggling. In my opinion, the purcgase of smaller, but capable vessels such as the 40 meter boats in the clas of CG5 and CG6 would have been better purchases, with the addition to the fleet of about 20 smaller interceptor craft. These interceptor craft could be readily deployed from strategic bases aroud the island. Not only giving greater visibility, but ready reponse to smugglers etc. The acquisition of four 40 meter vessels and one OPV ( less costs than 3 OPV's ) would have been a better choice. The man power it takes to man the 40 meter craft would not put a starin on the CG and these craft could quickly respond to the region's needs etc.
There is also an issue with the technology neded to support the effective deployment and strategic and tactical needs of the OPVs. Out country has a nationwide microwave and radar system that extends up the islands, but ti was a poor purchase as it was seoncd hand, brokered by middlemen who did not have the technical expertise to adequatelt maintain it. The Israelis who sold it are still training locals to mantain hte radar.
The police who have some maritime presence are poorly trained and are in fact a glorified fishing fleet.
Financial and legal issues aside, the T&T CG could have done with one OPV. I am anxiously awaiting to see what will be the replacement crafts and where they will be acquiring them.
There is a mixed reaction to the cancellation of the contract from those in the know. It is what it is, just wondering what the hell will the PP do to help the TTCG do their job?
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First off I think people giving Griffith too much credit here and I'm not saying you are Bakes.
To me it would be very very wrong for the Government to make a decision of terminating this contract without some very sound legal advice, the solicitor general's office is where these issues end up and in my experience they are very thorough and have a long history behind them with which to refer, also they would normally seek consultation and advice from lawyers in private practice.
The contract would have been between GOTT and the supplier , the Permanent Secretary would have signed on behalf of GOTT, the PS's legal advisor would be the SG.
For PP to get a public servant (PS) to sign off on termination, a couple of things would have to happen, legal advice would have to be obtained and a note to cabinet would have been written and approved (this note written by public servants and vetted by the PS ) .
If PP was able to bypass advice from the SG, then the problems we have are much much bigger than this issue.
We have to give him credit. He is the only person (as far as I know) as "Security Advisor" that has said we don't need these OPV's. And a cabinet decision was made (its referred to in article above).
I understand what you are saying in terms of the layers of red tape cancelling the contracts would have had to go through, but the PM/PP is acting on whose advice?? As far as I'm aware, all signs point to the people with the technical know how saying we need the OPV's. The only dissenting voice that I'm aware of was Gary Griffith's.....
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http://www.facebook.com/v/10150303445035311
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He also made the point that the government is going ahead with the purchase of the 4 helicopters at $2 billion. But without the OPV's what is the use of the helicopters?? They were supposed to work in tandem.....
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He also made the point that the government is going ahead with the purchase of the 4 helicopters at $2 billion. But without the OPV's what is the use of the helicopters?? They were supposed to work in tandem.....
You dont need OPVs for helicopters to wrk effectively
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He also made the point that the government is going ahead with the purchase of the 4 helicopters at $2 billion. But without the OPV's what is the use of the helicopters?? They were supposed to work in tandem.....
You dont need OPVs for helicopters to wrk effectively
They were bought as a package. From listening to Dr. Rowley, the idea may have been (and as a military man you could tell me better), that the OPV's would do the bulk of the patrols and the helicopters would provide back up.....can the helicopters patrol 24/7 by themselves??
Yuh see ah still waiting to hear from the PP what kind of vessel will replace the OPV's.....dais where a piece of the puzzle missing for me....
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exactly something have to replace it
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depends on the type of helicopters really, range etc. However they already have several helicopters, thing is you will need additional helicopter pilots to keep them on constant patrol..shifts etc.
How effective helicopters will be depends on the equipment on them too..cameras, infrared and a lot of other varibales.
Comes down to the will to effectively do something. ALl the equipment will amount to utten if the stakeholders do not have a plan and the cooperation and willingness of the men and women of the Coast Guard, pOlice, Army and Customs
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you know I feel I have a plan to tighten up the shores arounf T&T.
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depends on the type of helicopters really, range etc. However they already have several helicopters, thing is you will need additional helicopter pilots to keep them on constant patrol..shifts etc.
How effective helicopters will be depends on the equipment on them too..cameras, infrared and a lot of other varibales.
Comes down to the will to effectively do something. ALl the equipment will amount to utten if the stakeholders do not have a plan and the cooperation and willingness of the men and women of the Coast Guard, pOlice, Army and Customs
OK.....
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First off I think people giving Griffith too much credit here and I'm not saying you are Bakes.
To me it would be very very wrong for the Government to make a decision of terminating this contract without some very sound legal advice, the solicitor general's office is where these issues end up and in my experience they are very thorough and have a long history behind them with which to refer, also they would normally seek consultation and advice from lawyers in private practice.
The contract would have been between GOTT and the supplier , the Permanent Secretary would have signed on behalf of GOTT, the PS's legal advisor would be the SG.
For PP to get a public servant (PS) to sign off on termination, a couple of things would have to happen, legal advice would have to be obtained and a note to cabinet would have been written and approved (this note written by public servants and vetted by the PS ) .
If PP was able to bypass advice from the SG, then the problems we have are much much bigger than this issue.
I'm not sure to what your'e referring... the issue isn't one of "Who signed off on the termination of the contract", the issue is "On what basis do they think they are justified in terminating the contract"... it matters not which of the dancing fools jumped high enough when the pen was tossed into the air.
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First off I think people giving Griffith too much credit here and I'm not saying you are Bakes.
To me it would be very very wrong for the Government to make a decision of terminating this contract without some very sound legal advice, the solicitor general's office is where these issues end up and in my experience they are very thorough and have a long history behind them with which to refer, also they would normally seek consultation and advice from lawyers in private practice.
The contract would have been between GOTT and the supplier , the Permanent Secretary would have signed on behalf of GOTT, the PS's legal advisor would be the SG.
For PP to get a public servant (PS) to sign off on termination, a couple of things would have to happen, legal advice would have to be obtained and a note to cabinet would have been written and approved (this note written by public servants and vetted by the PS ) .
If PP was able to bypass advice from the SG, then the problems we have are much much bigger than this issue.
I'm not sure to what your'e referring... the issue isn't one of "Who signed off on the termination of the contract", the issue is "On what basis do they think they are justified in terminating the contract"... it matters not which of the dancing fools jumped high enough when the pen was tossed into the air.
You miss my point. The PS as the accounting officer would have to terminate the contract, to do that he/she would have to go to the SC for opinion and this opinion would inform the cabinet note, so what I'm sayins is that the decision should have been based on legal advice and if the Government ignored this advice and issued a cabinet minute to terminate then we are in big trouble, however if the legal advice was otherwise then obviously there is more to the circumstances within the contract than you are aware of.
To put it quite simply either there was good sound grounds for termination or there was not and we cannot look at it from the outside and say that the GOTT made a wrong decision based on the rantings of Rowley et al.
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You miss my point. The PS as the accounting officer would have to terminate the contract, to do that he/she would have to go to the SC for opinion and this opinion would inform the cabinet note, so what I'm sayins is that the decision should have been based on legal advice and if the Government ignored this advice and issued a cabinet minute to terminate then we are in big trouble, however if the legal advice was otherwise then obviously there is more to the circumstances within the contract than you are aware of.
To put it quite simply either there was good sound grounds for termination or there was not and we cannot look at it from the outside and say that the GOTT made a wrong decision based on the rantings of Rowley et al.
I'm not sure who the "SC" is. As for the rest.. either you're late to the conversation or otherwise not understanding my position. I'm really not concerned with the process by which they arrived at their decision, the decision is flawed. I don't need to know more about "the circumstances within the contract"... those have been laid bare. I'm speaking based on my knowledge of contract law, a company like BAE which does billions in contract sales worldwide absolutely WOULD NOT stipulate to a provision that allows the buyer to unilaterally terminate a contract.
Termination of contract is a decision of last resort only because it requires proof that the breaching party:
•Refuses to perform the contract
•Does something that the contract prohibits, or
•Prevents the other party from performing its obligations.
Even then, armed with evidence of the above, common law is in favor of contract... which is to say, the court prefers to validate the contract rather than to invalidate it. So where there is egregious conduct, the remedy favored by courts is damages to the non-breaching party, NOT termination.
Looking at Rowley's statements the decision to terminate seems even more foolhardy. The prior administration was aware of the delays, and properly negotiated with the seller, rather than unilaterally, summarily and prematurely resorting to termination. When there is non-performance the breaching party must be given an opportunity to Cure. The PNM gave BAE an opportunity to cure the breach by entering into negotiations for the $61 million + the $100 million in equipment, maintenance and training. In exchange BAE was given additional time to deliver.
The PNM then got voted out and the PP decided to terminate... essentially rescinding the opportunity to cure. From a court's standpoint the change at the helm of the government is immaterial, the GOTT is the GOTT whether PNM or PP. PP reneging on an agreement/contract made by the PNM is the same as if the PNM remained in power and reneged. The process you cite in your argument very well could have been followed, but all that would indicate is that there was alignment of thought on several levels (the various stops along the bureaucratic process), populated by PP sympathisers. Faithful navigation of this process as you think is necessary, very easily would result in a decision favored by the PP, rather than an objective decision based on sound legal advice. Put plainly, if you have all your pardnas in the correct places where advice is sought then all you will get is the advice of people who like/think like you... not objectively sound, reasoned legal advice.
So I could easily concede that they followed the proper channels in getting the termination signed off on, and still argue that they arrived at the wrong conclusion based on my knowledge of contract law. And no, that does not mean that I know more than the Solicitor General and everybody else they consult, it just means we are looking at the law and applying the current facts to the law and arriving at different conclusions. That happens everyday in court.
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You miss my point. The PS as the accounting officer would have to terminate the contract, to do that he/she would have to go to the SC for opinion and this opinion would inform the cabinet note, so what I'm sayins is that the decision should have been based on legal advice and if the Government ignored this advice and issued a cabinet minute to terminate then we are in big trouble, however if the legal advice was otherwise then obviously there is more to the circumstances within the contract than you are aware of.
To put it quite simply either there was good sound grounds for termination or there was not and we cannot look at it from the outside and say that the GOTT made a wrong decision based on the rantings of Rowley et al.
So I could easily concede that they followed the proper channels in getting the termination signed off on, and still argue that they arrived at the wrong conclusion based on my knowledge of contract law. And no, that does not mean that I know more than the Solicitor General and everybody else they consult, it just means we are looking at the law and applying the current facts to the law and arriving at different conclusions. That happens everyday in court.
Fair enough, you have your opinion, I would want to see how this pans out in the fullness of time, remember BAE is the company that paid the big bribes to the Saudis and that alone makes them suspect to me.
Also all of the contracts (FIDIC) that I have been involved in have termination clauses and these jobs have been worth billions, the Petrorin vs GTL matter is a good case to consider whenever it gets decided.
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The PNM then got voted out and the PP decided to terminate... essentially rescinding the opportunity to cure. From a court's standpoint the change at the helm of the government is immaterial, the GOTT is the GOTT whether PNM or PP. PP reneging on an agreement/contract made by the PNM is the same as if the PNM remained in power and reneged.
I think this is the most obvious feature of the issue and why I expected the PM and her advisors to act more carefully. How could they be so naive ?
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Fair enough, you have your opinion, I would want to see how this pans out in the fullness of time, remember BAE is the company that paid the big bribes to the Saudis and that alone makes them suspect to me.
Also all of the contracts (FIDIC) that I have been involved in have termination clauses and these jobs have been worth billions, the Petrorin vs GTL matter is a good case to consider whenever it gets decided.
I don't deny that termination is possible... what I did say is that termination is valid only when one of the three circumstances above are present. I'm sure if you go back and look at the contracts you were involved in you'd see those three provisions represented in the language. This was a case of delay in performance, not non-performance. Delay can be a valid ground for termination if it results in breach... but the delay must be substantial or the breach material to the contract. Unless I'm mistaken, the time for delivery of the vessels have not yet passed, therefore BAE has a right to cure, up to the time of delivery. I don't mean to discount your past contract experience, but this issue isn't governed by contract law as it is by a subset of that, (International) Sales. Contracts for the sale of goods are a different animal.
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Nuff ah dem officers will leave d CG. It have nutten 4 dem now. Some ah them done strt 2 wuk on dey exit plan.
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Nuff ah dem officers will leave d CG. It have nutten 4 dem now. Some ah them done strt 2 wuk on dey exit plan.
what officers? You mean the men sent to train overseas? They were not exclusively officers, but you are right some have already been hired by different companies.
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Nuff ah dem officers will leave d CG. It have nutten 4 dem now. Some ah them done strt 2 wuk on dey exit plan.
what officers? You mean the men sent to train overseas? They were not exclusively officers, but you are right some have already been hired by different companies.
CO-SIGN Officers as in cosign officers not commisioned ranks. I wonder if they saw that coming? doubt it so d have 2 train new persons now.
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well tjhey just cant leave, they are contracted you know
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well tjhey just cant leave, they are contracted you know
Yes but u know exactly dat next time around u will know u not b renewing.
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http://www.facebook.com/v/10150303445035311
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Brilliant! Is like Rowley been reading my postst... either that or the issue is clear to anybody with a passing familiarity with the underlying law. I particularly like his point about the public pronouncements of the Prime Minister and how they vary with the legal arguments they're claiming as the basis for the breach. I take no credit for that one, it didn't even dawn on me, but yeah... if privy to it, the lawyers for BAE will have a field day with that one.
For the past two days I arguing with a pardna ah mine who is ah mounted officer in the Defence Force... and he singing the same "defects" song, and how the three ships done late and dat is why they cancel. He claim personal familiarity with the contract so ah really couldn't argue him the issue that BAE were in breach, other than to point out to him that per the dates of delivery BAE still had time to deliver the vessel, therefore at least that one wasn't late. I doh think I really make ah dent... but is not me, is when de gavel hit them in dey head they go feel it.
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i have a question, even if the government cancel the vessels, Can BAE take legal action to make the Government accept the vessels even if they were canceled? Is that even possible? or the cancellation is final?
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i have a question, even if the government cancel the vessels, Can BAE take legal action to make the Government accept the vessels even if they were canceled? Is that even possible? or the cancellation is final?
No, BAE will have to try and sell the vessels on the open market and the Gov't would have to come up with whatever balance short of what the contract say the vessels were worth. It would be next to impossible to sell those vessels for anywhere close to their value since they are custom built. That's like going to Toyota and special-ordering a 10-wheel car that can't turn corners, cancelling and expecting Toyota to be able to sell that. Whoever buying it ent paying nowhere close to full price a) because it too customized to be or normal use; b) the buyer know s/he in the driver's seat and that you desperate to sell, so they have the bargaining upperhand.
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http://www.youtube.com/v/mBpt-tsPZVQ&
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Ah cyar find the original OPV's thread, and ah not sure if this is posted some where else. With all the talk about the SOE ah didn't want this to pass by un noticed......
Search on for patrol vessels
Ministry of National Security places ad...
By Joel Julien
ALMOST one year after the People's Partnership Government cancelled a contract to purchase three Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs) from a British ship-building firm, the search is now on for "patrol vessels of proven design for the Trinidad and Tobago Defence Force (Coast Guard)".
The Committee for the Acquisition of Naval Vessels, chaired by retired commodore Anthony Franklin, has been established to secure the purchase of the patrol vessels sought by the Government.
"The Government of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago is interested in acquiring patrol vessels of proven design for the Trinidad and Tobago Defence Force (Coast Guard)," an advertisement placed in the Sunday Express stated yesterday.
"The patrol vessels are intended for operations in the territorial waters and Exclusive Economic Zone around Trinidad and Tobago and for the regional operations in the Southern Caribbean," the advertisement stated.
"These operations would include search and rescue, law enforcement and humanitarian operations based on Government's directives, agreements and treaties with neighbouring islands."
In April 2007, as part of a government-to-government arrangement, the then People's National Movement (PNM) administration signed a £150 million contract with VT Shipbuilding to build and commission three OPVs.
In October 2009, BAE Systems acquired full control of VT.
The vessels were part of a $5.1 billion expenditure approved by the former PNM government to acquire naval assets which would provide surveillance, protection capabilities, including drug interdiction, anti-smuggling operations and disaster relief functions within the region.
On September 17 last year, Minister of National Security John Sandy said Government served BAE Systems notice that the contract was being cancelled.
Government scrapped the contract for the three OPVs from BAE Systems because of a breach of contract, which included delays and defects in the construction of the vessels, Sandy told the House of Representatives last year.
"The desired vessels should be cost-effective, multi-mission platforms for use in the tropics, with long-range command and control capability and built to a recognised Classification Society standard," the National Security Ministry advertisement stated.
The "Request for Information" is also placed on the National Security Ministry's website.
Those interested are asked to submit their information no later than 4 p.m. on September 16.
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Search_on_for_patrol_vessels-128570163.html (http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Search_on_for_patrol_vessels-128570163.html)
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Not to be a wet blanket... but which manufacturer in their right mind will chance entering a contract with TnT when the government has shown it has no respect for contractual obligations... and is presently faced with litigation for breach of contract for that matter? Just a thought. Might be a while before we get them ships.
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Not to be a wet blanket... but which manufacturer in their right mind will chance entering a contract with TnT when the government has shown it has no respect for contractual obligations... and is presently faced with litigation for breach of contract for that matter? Just a thought. Might be a while before we get them ships.
Did not BAA violate the original terms of agreement by exceeding the schedule and by costs overruns?
Nobody would terminate a contract without cause.
In fact I'm surprised the government is not looking for liquidated damages.
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Did not BAA violate the original terms of agreement by exceeding the schedule and by costs overruns?
Nobody would terminate a contract without cause.
In fact I'm surprised the government is not looking for liquidated damages.
In any contract, where there is a breach the non-breaching party is entitled to a range of options including damages (not just "liquidated" damages). The non-breacher can demand performance, sue for breach, give the breacher an opportunity to cure... etc.
In the case of BAE, the Manning administration agreed to give them an opportunity to cure the breach by delivering after the contracted date of delivery. In exchange for the extension of time, BAE in return promised to throw in free equipment upgrades and free additional training (beyond what was contracted for). This exchange of promises created a modification of the old contract and the modified contract takes precedent over the original contract. All rights and obligations under the old contract are extinguished by the new... so by agreeing to the modification, the government of TnT (whether PNM or PP) can no longer complain about the delays/breach of the original contract.
This modified contract was breached by the PP government when they chose to unilaterally rescind the extension granted by the PNM government... hence breaching the new contract. You are right, nobody would terminate a contract without cause... which is why it is so baffling that the PP government did so within hours of being sworn in.
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Did not BAA violate the original terms of agreement by exceeding the schedule and by costs overruns?
Nobody would terminate a contract without cause.
In fact I'm surprised the government is not looking for liquidated damages.
In any contract, where there is a breach the non-breaching party is entitle to damages (not just "liquidated" damages). In a contract for the sale of goods (as opposed to a contract to sell land, to perform personal service, labor contracts etc. etc.), damages are just one option. The non-breacher can demand performance, sue for breach, give the breacher an opportunity to cure... etc.
In the case of BAE, there was a contract for the manufacture and sale of ships. The Manning administration agreed to give them an opportunity to cure the breach by delivering after the contracted date of delivery. In exchange for the extension of time, BAE in return promised to throw in free equipment upgrades and free additional training (beyond what was contracted for). This exchange of promises created a modification of the old contract and the modified contract takes precedent over the original contract. All rights and obligations under the old contract are extinguished by the new... so by agreeing to the modification, the government of TnT (whether PNM or PP) can no longer complain about the delays/breach of the original contract.
This modified contract was breached by the PP government when they chose to unilaterally rescind the extension granted by the PNM government... hence breaching the new contract.
I hear all you say but did not they also come back to PP for a further extension after the sea trials went wrong?
I think you judge to early.
Lets see how the case unfolds, I hold my own views on this matter until then.
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I hear all you say but did not they also come back to PP for a further extension after the sea trials went wrong?
I think you judge to early.
Lets see how the case unfolds, I hold my own views on this matter until then.
I modified my post as you were responding... see above. The PP government announced to BAE that they were "cancelling" the contract literally within a day or so of taking office. There was no "sea trials" or requests for extensions after May 18th or whatever date the PP was sworn in. Even if BAE came with requests for an extension... requests for more time is not the same as a breach. The government in that case would have had to deny them the extension and then wait for the date of performance to pass before "cancelling".
As for me judging too early, you can think what you like... I'm just adding my perspective based on my understanding of the law, which, no offense, I think I'm more familiar with than you are. Indeed we all have to wait to see how it unfolds, and indeed you are entitled to your own views on the matter.
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I hear all you say but did not they also come back to PP for a further extension after the sea trials went wrong?
I think you judge to early.
Lets see how the case unfolds, I hold my own views on this matter until then.
I modified my post as you were responding... see above. The PP government announced to BAE that they were "cancelling" the contract literally within a day or so of taking office. There was no "sea trials" or requests for extensions after May 18th or whatever date the PP was sworn in. Even if BAE came with requests for an extension... requests for more time is not the same as a breach. The government in that case would have had to deny them the extension and then wait for the date of performance to pass before "cancelling".
As for me judging too early, you can think what you like... I'm just adding my perspective based on my understanding of the law, which, no offense, I think I'm more familiar with than you are. Indeed we all have to wait to see how it unfolds, and indeed you are entitled to your own views on the matter.
Fair enough.
Cheers
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Whatever the legalities, I believe PP weakened themselves immediately by cancelling the boats, dumping the blimp and dismantling the intelligence services. I have no problem if something better was put in place, but these just seemed to be knee jerk anti PNM reactions and in my view made Kamla look petty.
We still have had no real initiatives to replace all of the above. This leaves people like Hines free to criticise the lack of crime plan, and worse, the extinguishing of existing long term programmes. Whatever our view of OPV's at least the T&T govt could prove to countries like USA that they take their borders controls and the war against drug smugglers seriously.
Crime plans and hardware purchases such as ships are long term exercises. I don't see any on the horizon.
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Precisely FS... it was knee-jerk, spiteful and definitely political. Even if they had legitimate concerns about the contract, they have put the country into a serious bind by cancelling because the financial penalty would be steep. If memory serves correct this is an ₤800 million contract... I'm scared to think what the financial ramifications of breach would be. All this separate from the discussion of not having a policy in place and its effect on crime in TnT.
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There was talk some months ago that BAE was taking some kind of court action against the Government. The AG kinda stifled the talk saying that it wasn't true and the media didn't seem to follow up on it.....I'm thinking though that if BAE did take court action we would have definitely heard more about it....
I keep meaning to try and find the initial article just to clarify for my own sake really what the chatter was about.....eh have de time though.....
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Truth be told, 3 OPV's were over the top. We could have used one and purchase some fast patrol boats to bolster the fleet and give us more numbers in terms of vessels on the water at the same time.
The T&T CG hardly has the man power to handle 3 OPV's. The cost of operating them and the maintenance was also prohibitive.
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BAE Systems sells patrol vessels to Brazil
BBC
BAE Systems has signed a deal with the Brazilian Navy to supply it with three patrol vessels. The contract is worth £133m.
The ocean patrol vessels are already built, having been ordered by the government of Trinidad and Tobago in a contract which was terminated in 2010.
Two of the boats were constructed on the Clyde and the other at Portsmouth.
The new agreement with Brazil will allow vessels of the same class to be made under licence there.
Andrew Davies, the managing director of BAE Systems Maritime business, said: "This is a significant step forward in our relationship with Brazil.
"The Ocean Patrol Vessels are highly capable ships and I am sure they will be a tremendous asset to the Brazilian Navy."
The boats are capable of speeds in excess of 25 knots and weigh 2,200 tonnes fully loaded.
They are armed with a 30mm cannon and two 25mm guns, and are equipped with a helicopter flight deck and a rigid inflatable boat.
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Manning is ah waste ah time.
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Manning is ah waste ah time.
TOTAL WASTE
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BAE Systems sells patrol vessels to Brazil
BBC
BAE Systems has signed a deal with the Brazilian Navy to supply it with three patrol vessels. The contract is worth £133m.
The ocean patrol vessels are already built, having been ordered by the government of Trinidad and Tobago in a contract which was terminated in 2010.
I fully expect the PP government to try and settle out of court now. The people of TnT will "only" have to fork over £17m, and the government will try to argue that they saved the country £133m of PNM waste. Of course they unnecessarily cost the country £17m by breaching without cause... but as with everything else they will be boldface in trying to sweep this under the rug and in dismissing any questions/criticism a politics by the PNM.
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shame on the brazilian navy..buying defective ships and the like...
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shame on the brazilian navy..buying defective ships and the like...
ENTTTT dey need a wise govt like d 1 we have in TNT.
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shame on the brazilian navy..buying defective ships and the like...
;D
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China to sell long range border patrol vessel to TT
...the vessel will arrive in shortest possible time, discloses Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar
By Multimedia Desk
Story Created: Feb 25, 2014 at 9:57 AM ECT
Story Updated: Feb 25, 2014 at 10:17 AM ECT
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/China-to-provide-long-range-border-patrol-vessel-to-TT-247051311.html
THE Office of the Prime Minister disclosed today that China has agreed to deliver a Long Range Vessel to the Trinidad and Tobago Coast Guard, to increase maritime border security and fights arms and drug smuggling. The vessel will arrive in the shortest possible time, and follows a request of China's Premier Li Keqiang by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar who is currently on an official State visit to China. The following is the statement of the Office of the Prime Minister -
The Honourable Kamla Persad-Bissessar SC, Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago, expressed delight today after China promised to deliver a Long Range Vessel (LRV) to the Trinidad and Tobago Coast Guard in the shortest possible time.
"This is really good news," Prime Minister Persad-Bissessar said she convinced Chinese Premier, Li Keqiang, that the T&T Coast Guard needed two vessels to lock down this country's borders in light of the increase in arms and narco trafficking.
Mrs Persad-Bissessar led a T&T delegation to bilateral talks with the Chinese Premier and top officials of the Chinese Government at the Great Hall of the People here in Beijing today. The T&T delegation also included Minister of Foreign Affairs, Winston Dookeran, Minister of Trade and Industry, Vasant Bharath, and Minister of Energy and Energy Affairs, Kevin Ramnarine.
Mrs Persad-Bissessar came to the table in Beijing with a list of proposals, hoping to convince her Chinese counterpart to assist. "We are here today to further the partnership we started 40 years ago. I am hoping that you could use your good office to drive these projects," the Prime Minister added.
The Prime Minister said she was aware that China was building two LRVs and pleaded with Li Keqiang to sell one "in the shortest possible time." She also sought assistance from the Chinese in the establishment of a National Operations Centre (NOC), saying that a Chinese company was already interested in such a project.
Mrs Persad-Bissessar said a team from the T&T Coast Guard recently visited China and proposed that T&T acquire one LRV "right away." She told the Chinese Premier, "National Security remains the number one priority of my Government right now."
Both the Governments of China and Trinidad and Tobago will sit down and deal with the financing aspect of the purchase.
In her discussions, Mrs Persad-Bissessar also sought assistance with the following:
1) Construction and design of six new Economic Zones in Trinidad and Tobago.
2) Development of a trans-shipment Port and Dry Dock in South Trinidad.
3) Early processing of a loan agreement with the China Exim Bank so these projects can be expedited.
4) Construction of two new hospitals.
5) Removal of asphalt from the Pitch Lake in greater capacities.
The Prime Minister thanked the Chinese for the scanner for the Port, and said her Government was interested in purchasing more.
She said Trinidad and Tobago was strategically located to become the gateway of the Americas. This was something which aroused the attention
of the Chinese Premier. He said it was something which his Government would explore.
During the welcome ceremony, the Chinese Military Band played the T&T National Anthem, which according to some members of the T&T delegation, "sounded better than what is played at home."
During the banquet hosted by the Chinese Premier, the Military Band played "Portrait of Trinidad and Tobago" causing PM Persad-Bissessar to personally leave her table and speak to members of the band.
Four agreements were signed today in the areas of health, sport, energy and civil aviation.
THE PRIME MINISTER'S SCHEDULE FOR WEDNESDAY
11 am - Visit to the Forbidden City, Beijing.
12 noon - Opening of the T&T Embassy in Beijing.
2.30 pm - Visit to the China Agricultural University.
6 pm - Attend at banquet hosted by the President of China, His Excellency Xi Jingping.
10 pm - Departs for Shanghai.
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China to sell long range border patrol vessel to TT
...the vessel will arrive in shortest possible time, discloses Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar
By Multimedia Desk
Story Created: Feb 25, 2014 at 9:57 AM ECT
Story Updated: Feb 25, 2014 at 10:17 AM ECT
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/China-to-provide-long-range-border-patrol-vessel-to-TT-247051311.html
THE Office of the Prime Minister disclosed today that China has agreed to deliver a Long Range Vessel to the Trinidad and Tobago Coast Guard, to increase maritime border security and fights arms and drug smuggling. The vessel will arrive in the shortest possible time, and follows a request of China's Premier Li Keqiang by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar who is currently on an official State visit to China. The following is the statement of the Office of the Prime Minister -
The Honourable Kamla Persad-Bissessar SC, Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago, expressed delight today after China promised to deliver a Long Range Vessel (LRV) to the Trinidad and Tobago Coast Guard in the shortest possible time.
"This is really good news," Prime Minister Persad-Bissessar said she convinced Chinese Premier, Li Keqiang, that the T&T Coast Guard needed two vessels to lock down this country's borders in light of the increase in arms and narco trafficking.
Mrs Persad-Bissessar led a T&T delegation to bilateral talks with the Chinese Premier and top officials of the Chinese Government at the Great Hall of the People here in Beijing today. The T&T delegation also included Minister of Foreign Affairs, Winston Dookeran, Minister of Trade and Industry, Vasant Bharath, and Minister of Energy and Energy Affairs, Kevin Ramnarine.
Mrs Persad-Bissessar came to the table in Beijing with a list of proposals, hoping to convince her Chinese counterpart to assist. "We are here today to further the partnership we started 40 years ago. I am hoping that you could use your good office to drive these projects," the Prime Minister added.
The Prime Minister said she was aware that China was building two LRVs and pleaded with Li Keqiang to sell one "in the shortest possible time." She also sought assistance from the Chinese in the establishment of a National Operations Centre (NOC), saying that a Chinese company was already interested in such a project.
Mrs Persad-Bissessar said a team from the T&T Coast Guard recently visited China and proposed that T&T acquire one LRV "right away." She told the Chinese Premier, "National Security remains the number one priority of my Government right now."
Both the Governments of China and Trinidad and Tobago will sit down and deal with the financing aspect of the purchase.
In her discussions, Mrs Persad-Bissessar also sought assistance with the following:
1) Construction and design of six new Economic Zones in Trinidad and Tobago.
2) Development of a trans-shipment Port and Dry Dock in South Trinidad.
3) Early processing of a loan agreement with the China Exim Bank so these projects can be expedited.
4) Construction of two new hospitals.
5) Removal of asphalt from the Pitch Lake in greater capacities.
The Prime Minister thanked the Chinese for the scanner for the Port, and said her Government was interested in purchasing more.
She said Trinidad and Tobago was strategically located to become the gateway of the Americas. This was something which aroused the attention
of the Chinese Premier. He said it was something which his Government would explore.
During the welcome ceremony, the Chinese Military Band played the T&T National Anthem, which according to some members of the T&T delegation, "sounded better than what is played at home."
During the banquet hosted by the Chinese Premier, the Military Band played "Portrait of Trinidad and Tobago" causing PM Persad-Bissessar to personally leave her table and speak to members of the band.
Four agreements were signed today in the areas of health, sport, energy and civil aviation.
THE PRIME MINISTER'S SCHEDULE FOR WEDNESDAY
11 am - Visit to the Forbidden City, Beijing.
12 noon - Opening of the T&T Embassy in Beijing.
2.30 pm - Visit to the China Agricultural University.
6 pm - Attend at banquet hosted by the President of China, His Excellency Xi Jingping.
10 pm - Departs for Shanghai.
Fantastic news for my prospective Ph.D. - looks like I'm ahead of the game, whey hey! Should be great for Trinidad and Tobago, China's consumption is going to increase massively over the next decade, and we want them buying Trinibagonian stuff.
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Chinese vessels absurd, says Imbert
By Joel Julien joel.julien@trinidadexpress.com
Story Created: Feb 25, 2014 at 9:31 PM ECT
Story Updated: Feb 26, 2014 at 11:38 AM ECT
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Chinese-vessels-absurd-says-Imbert-247171861.html
“THE height of absurdity”.
This is how Opposition Member of Parliament Colm Imbert has described the announcement made by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar yesterday that she is seeking to purchase a long-range vessel (LRV) from China for this country’s Coast Guard.
In 2007, the previous People’s National Movement (PNM) administration, of which Imbert was a Cabinet member, signed a £150 million contract with a company called VT Shipbuilding to build and commission vessels to patrol local waters and provide naval protection and surveillance.
British defence manufacturer BAE Systems eventually acquired VT Shipbuilding in 2009.
In 2010, months after assuming office, the People’s Partnership Government cancelled the contract because it said the vessels were not built according to specifications.
In a release form the Office of the Prime Minister yesterday, it was stated Persad-Bissessar said she was aware China was building two LRVs and “pleaded” and “convinced” Chinese Premier Li Keqiang to sell her one.
Persad-Bissessar told Li Keqiang the Trinidad and Tobago Coast Guard “needed the two vessels to lock down this country’s borders, in light of the increase in arms and narco trafficking”.
“The long-range vessel is more or less the same as an offshore patrol vessel, just different terminologies, but it is the same thing because you have vessels that operate in shore and you have vessels that operate offshore,” Imbert said in a telephone interview yesterday.
“The long-range vessel that is being made in China is very similar to the offshore patrol vessels that was being manufactured by BAE, so it is more or less the same boat, and that is the irony of this whole thing,” he said.
Imbert said it was Persad-Bissessar who led the charge in 2010 to cancel the contract to purchase the OPVs.
“First describing the boats as lemons and useless and, secondly, saying Trinidad and Tobago does not need to be patrolling the seas because the problem with crime is on land and not at sea,” Imbert said.
“I think it is the height of absurdity to come four years later and say that the Prime Minister has ‘pleaded’ with the government of China to give Trinidad and Tobago one of the long-range vessels that are being constructed for some other country,” he said.
Imbert said, logistically, this situation does not make sense.
“She now has come three and half years later, realising that what she did and what her Government did was nonsensical, and is now very calmly and very unashamedly stating as some kind of fantastic achievement that she has pleaded with the government of China to give us a boat, same boat,” Imbert said.
He said the entire situation has raised more questions than answers.
“What bothers me is what were the tendering procedures; what were the procurement procedures? Was there competitive tendering; what are the cost of these boats; were they designed for use in Trinidad and Tobago waters; are they designed to Coast Guard specifications; are they designed for our Trinidadian sailors; how are Trinidadians going to be trained to use Chinese boats; will the instructions come in English? These are the questions we have to ask. It makes absolutely no sense,” he said.
Imbert said the training programme for such “high-value, sophisticated military vessels” could take sometimes over a year.
“Our Coast Guard men will now have to be going to China where English is not the native tongue, at least with the BAE vessels, they were coming from England so the instructions would have been in English. The whole thing is just ludicrous,” Imbert said.
Imbert said China is not listed among the leading countries in terms of manufacture of such vessels.
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We've gone from BAE, a leading aerospace and naval design and manufacturing company... to some "Made in China" boats. I could see if she went to Samsung or Hyundai, at least they have a track record, if not in Naval Armature. But who is this builder?
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We've gone from BAE, a leading aerospace and naval design and manufacturing company... to some "Made in China" boats. I could see if she went to Samsung or Hyundai, at least they have a track record, if not in Naval Armature. But who is this builder?
This looks more geopolitical than practical - simply out China buys nearly all of Trini's major exports - Gas (more competitive price than the US potentially), Ammonia (yea Trini's the world's biggest exporter, used in fertilizer, and China's one of the biggest buyers), and refined iron ore. Buying some crappy boat to solidify ties would be quite a good deal.
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Madman talk. In what world could that ever be a good deal?
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Madman talk. In what world could that ever be a good deal?
For China
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I love how poor countries like ours like to go to these giants and give away our wealth. We truly have become a lost people.
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This Chinese boat thing is hilarious as on one hand Gary Griffith in the papers talking about how we have a naval implementation team doing analysis and study to determine exactly what we need and no decisions have been made yet and on the other hand the PM begging China to skip us to the front of the line for a boat that is already under construction to spec for someone else.
http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2014-02-26/griffith-patrol-vessel-china-tt-will-not-buy-%E2%80%98white-elephant%E2%80%99
“We do have a naval implementation team and they have actually looked at the vessel. They have looked at vessels from Korea as well and with their report they will actually give us the concept of what they see as the best type of vessel for us to move forward with,” Griffith said. Before a decision could be finalised, the National Security Minister said, other details must be taken into consideration, including finance and maintenance.
Before a decision could be finalized? Sounds like decision already made, analysis be damned... Same article:
"A press release issued from the Office of the Prime Minister yesterday quoted the PM as saying China had promised to deliver a long-range vessel to the T&T Coast Guard in the shortest possible time"
This government really rudderless yes. First we doh need no boats to fight crime, then the boats were in such disfunction that BAE was advantaging us by selling us that sh!t (boats subsequently bought by a navy with aircraft carrier and nuclear submarine), and now we over in China looking desperate to protect we border - so desperate we buying boat before the military submit recommendations... smh
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Where is our media on this, asking the tough questions?
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Where is our media on this, asking the tough questions?
The media have asked but the gov't never answered. What you want the media to do ? Threaten them!
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Where is our media on this, asking the tough questions?
Is carnival. What really wrong with you eh?
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Does this realy make sense? They only thing I could agree with, is what Tiresais refer to as a geopolitical decision. China buys a lot from us. But the US buys a lot from us also.
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:D alright fellas allyuh put me in place lol
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Does this realy make sense? They only thing I could agree with, is what Tiresais refer to as a geopolitical decision. China buys a lot from us. But the US buys a lot from us also.
If the government is smart they know that Chinese consumption is absolutely going to increase in the next decade, whereas America's is much less certain. America is Trini's biggest buyer right now, but America doesn't play as nice as China when it comes to foreign relations either, so there might be other concerns.
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They will purchase these vessels then they will get here and the seamen will say they cyar operate them because they doh know chinese
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They will purchase these vessels then they will get here and the seamen will say they cyar operate them because they doh know chinese
I know that is a joke. The Chinese know English. They will have their English speaking people to do training. And all the instructions will definitely be in English. Of course there will be Chinese on some of the instructions. It would help to learn Chinese by the way.
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Only last week d jokey captin say we eh need no OPV because we need 2 beef up our intelligence. Vap Kamla swing her bat like Gayle and is LPV in oui pweefen.
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Does this realy make sense? They only thing I could agree with, is what Tiresais refer to as a geopolitical decision. China buys a lot from us. But the US buys a lot from us also.
If the government is smart they know that Chinese consumption is absolutely going to increase in the next decade, whereas America's is much less certain. America is Trini's biggest buyer right now, but America doesn't play as nice as China when it comes to foreign relations either, so there might be other concerns.
It doesn't have anything to do with being smart..who are the people that are part of her delegation...this China trip is basically to open the Chinese market for her friends and purchasing patrol boats is an offer that doing business with her friends is the same as doing business with the gov't of TnT....they eh foolin nobody
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The truth is in the 21st century with free movement of capital ,businesses don't need governments to trade. I don't have a problem with the PM going to open the mission and get a nice photo op with the Chinese President but if the insinuation is this visit in itself is platform for increasing trade is pure fantasy. Our businesses dont' need our government to go to China for us to gain access to their market and vice versa.
Tiresais might me on to something. Though my suspicion is it has more to do with 'gifts' we received to build projects e.g. the children's hospital and Chinese loan we got for the smelter than a trade imbalance.
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The truth is in the 21st century with free movement of capital ,businesses don't need governments to trade. I don't have a problem with the PM going to open the mission and get a nice photo op with the Chinese President but if the insinuation is this visit in itself is platform for increasing trade is pure fantasy. Our businesses dont' need our government to go to China for us to gain access to their market and vice versa.
Tiresais might me on to something. Though my suspicion is it has more to do with 'gifts' we received to build projects e.g. the children's hospital and Chinese loan we got for the smelter than a trade imbalance.
Actually our businesses DO need the government to hold their hands and carry them China to gain new trading opportunities. A place like China needs very little from us. Seeing that our next major sector outside of oil and gas is manufacturing underscores the point that we have very little to offer or teach China. Our businesses only survive in Trinidad based on government contracts etc. These businesses are not efficient nor are they innovative. China wouldn't open a door for any of these businesses. If American businesses can't even get a foothold into the Chinese market I highly doubt that ours will. This trip is a smokescreen. A trip designed to look like progress is being made. We have very little to offer China.
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The truth is in the 21st century with free movement of capital ,businesses don't need governments to trade. I don't have a problem with the PM going to open the mission and get a nice photo op with the Chinese President but if the insinuation is this visit in itself is platform for increasing trade is pure fantasy. Our businesses dont' need our government to go to China for us to gain access to their market and vice versa.
Tiresais might me on to something. Though my suspicion is it has more to do with 'gifts' we received to build projects e.g. the children's hospital and Chinese loan we got for the smelter than a trade imbalance.
This is a misconception - governments are essential in international trade, especially if they're going to convince other nations to drop tariffs and trade restrictions. Look at the measures - China's building a major trading port for Southern Trinidad, clearly that'll enable trade previously not cost-efficient or possible in terms of capacity.
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The truth is in the 21st century with free movement of capital ,businesses don't need governments to trade. I don't have a problem with the PM going to open the mission and get a nice photo op with the Chinese President but if the insinuation is this visit in itself is platform for increasing trade is pure fantasy. Our businesses dont' need our government to go to China for us to gain access to their market and vice versa.
Tiresais might me on to something. Though my suspicion is it has more to do with 'gifts' we received to build projects e.g. the children's hospital and Chinese loan we got for the smelter than a trade imbalance.
Actually our businesses DO need the government to hold their hands and carry them China to gain new trading opportunities. A place like China needs very little from us. Seeing that our next major sector outside of oil and gas is manufacturing underscores the point that we have very little to offer or teach China. Our businesses only survive in Trinidad based on government contracts etc. These businesses are not efficient nor are they innovative. China wouldn't open a door for any of these businesses. If American businesses can't even get a foothold into the Chinese market I highly doubt that ours will. This trip is a smokescreen. A trip designed to look like progress is being made. We have very little to offer China.
You used the right word - innovative. I don't disagree with much of what your saying except for the fact the government's cannot make businesses more innovative. My point is if there was a possible mutual gain, which is the point of trade in the first place no government intervention is required. Business doesn't need government to gain access to new markets. In fact the best thing governments can to increase trade is to make doing business in the home country easier e.g. decrease taxes, improve port efficiency.
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The truth is in the 21st century with free movement of capital ,businesses don't need governments to trade. I don't have a problem with the PM going to open the mission and get a nice photo op with the Chinese President but if the insinuation is this visit in itself is platform for increasing trade is pure fantasy. Our businesses dont' need our government to go to China for us to gain access to their market and vice versa.
Tiresais might me on to something. Though my suspicion is it has more to do with 'gifts' we received to build projects e.g. the children's hospital and Chinese loan we got for the smelter than a trade imbalance.
This is a misconception - governments are essential in international trade, especially if they're going to convince other nations to drop tariffs and trade restrictions. Look at the measures - China's building a major trading port for Southern Trinidad, clearly that'll enable trade previously not cost-efficient or possible in terms of capacity.
What tariffs and restrictions might the Chinese impose on Trinidad and Tobago who has no possible competitive advantage over them. Additionally this might be true if we were talking about the China of the 1960s. Enterprising businessmen are now welcomed to exploit opportunities in free trade zones that are emerging in China. Admittedly they are not as liberal as Hong Kong for instance but they don't need help from any help.
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Kamla: Govt doesn't owe one cent for OPVs
"There are several things that we had to consider. Do we need three OPVs? The country is not at war out in the seas; the country is at war on the ground, in our streets and in the towns within Trinidad and Tobago. The cost to maintain the vessels would have cost taxpayers in excess of $500 million annually. Our country cannot sustain that at this time," she said.
"We feel that we could better spend that money right here on the ground to fight crime, to pay police officers more money, pay the Defence Force more money, to pay the prisons officers more. To get equipment and, of course, food and hospitals beds," the PM said.
"There is the view that these huge OPVs will not assist in the fight against crime because first, they are slow and are visible from way off. You could see them from far off, so these narco (narcotic) traffickers who may be coming and illegal gun-runners (who) may be coming, what may be more useful is the smaller, faster cutters."
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Kamla__Govt_doesn_t_owe_one_cent_for_OPVs-104056313.html
Could someone give a comparison of the OPV's vs the Long Range Patrol vessel?
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Gary: Long range boat was on list
By Ria Taitt Political Editor
National Security Minister Gary Griffith said yesterday the decision to purchase a long range vessel from the Chinese was not done by vaps since “the acquisition of a long range patrol vessel was always part of Government’s maritime security lockdown”.
In an interview with the Express, Griffith said Government wanted a three-tiered approach, from the shoreline to two miles out, then from two miles to ten miles there would be coastal patrol vessels and the final tier involved the long range patrol vessel to secure the exclusive economic zone.
“It is not just putting OPVs and sailing aimlessly around the waters, but was part of the holistic lockdown of our shores,” he said.
“This was never a situation of vaps,” he added.
On the specific acquisition of the vessels from the Chinese, Griffith said it was confirmed in Cabinet when a naval implementation team was assigned specifically to investigate and acquire the best type of vessels for the three tiers (referred to earlier).
He said the team was appointed to prevent the purchase of a lot of defective items as happened under the previous administration. Citing the 12 interceptors, he said they were defective and the coast guard did not benefit from these purchases, while the taxpayer suffered.
“The BAE vessel was also defective,” he said.
Griffith said Government decided to select experts in the field to be part of the naval implementation team to go around the world to look at vessels to ensure the best ones could be obtained.
“It was shortlisted to four countries—Colombia, Korea, Holland and China,” he said.
He said the naval implementation team returned to Trinidad and Tobago “sometime in January ... so to say that this was not planned, or it was vaps, is not true”, he said.
“We actually have it documented that the implementation team went to China,” the minister said.
Griffith said Government still had to finally confirm the vessels being acquired were still the best ones for Trinidad and Tobago. He said the selection of a vessel is very technical and therefore the implementation team had to do a more thorough analysis of the Chinese vessels “to ensure that it is appropriate for Trinidad and Tobago waters”.
He said he did not want a repeat of the Austal vessels where six were purchased from Australia and they were not appropriate for this country’s waters and are now unserviceable.
On the issue of the language difference, Griffith said it was comical and embarrassing in this day for critics of the acquisition of the Chinese vessels to cite the language difference as a deterrent.
“That has never been a determining factor not to acquire military assets anywhere in the world,” he said, adding it was embarrassing to have persons even mention it.
“There is no part of this planet that is deemed to be too far because of technology. ... That went out in the 1990s,” he added.
He said the type of waters, the weaponry system, the level of training, the frequency of use were the issues to be considered when assessing compatibility of a vessel from anywhere in the world with Trinidad and Tobago.
Griffith said cost and financing were also critical. He said while he did not know the exact price of the Chinese vessels, he knew it was hundreds of millions of dollars less than the BAE OPVs which the former administration had agreed to buy.
Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar had announced Government would purchase “in the shortest possible time” a long range vessel from China.
The decision was criticised by PNM MP Colm Imbert and former minister Jack Warner who described it as a “vaps”.
In 2007 the PNM had signed a £150 sterling contract for the purchase of OPVs but the People’s Partnership administration cancelled that contract as soon as it entered office.
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http://www.trinidadexpress.com/commentaries/All-at-sea-249222211.html
By Keith Subero
Story Created: Mar 9, 2014 at 10:49 PM ECT
Story Updated: Mar 9, 2014 at 10:49 PM ECT
First, let’s clear up the Government’s little word game over OPVs and LRVs. Let’s stop the confusion; an LRV (long range vessel) is just another OPV (offshore patrol vessel). Be clear about this: LRVs and OPVs are the same.
Second, it has happened again: another diplomatic mis-step — this time in China. Remember the Prime Minister’s first visit to the United States and the mixed reports from New York on her non-appearance at scheduled events?
Recall also, the controversy during the official visit to India. Remember those questions that arose in the diplomatic community over the appropriateness of a visiting prime minister attempting to kiss the feet of the Indian president?
Remember too, the visit to the US last year when only a deputy secretary of state was “available” for an official meeting, a situation that was described, again in the diplomatic community, as a “slight” by the US government?
During the recent official visit to China, we learned from the Office of the Prime Minister that the PM told the Chinese premier she was aware that his country was building two LRVs and she “pleaded” with him and “convinced” him to sell one to T&T in the shortest possible time.
To best understand the rashness of that official statement one needs to go back somewhere around 2002-3, when our Coast Guard was instructed to begin studying the OPVs for possible purchase.
A specialist unit studied the use of the vessels worldwide and then developed designs appropriate for local waters and sat under inter-ministerial supervision with various technical teams from the ministries of National Security and Finance.
After stops, restarts, redesigns and grinding deliberations, the Manning government in 2007 ordered, through worldwide tendering, three OPVs from the British dockyard, BAE.
The firm granted the government, in the interim, two used vessels, with spares. A 100-metre jetty was constructed at Coast Guard headquarters and some 150 men were sent to the UK for training, with others scheduled to follow. There were construction delays and BAE agreed to compensate T&T substantially.
In 2010, the new People’s Partnership administration cancelled the BAE contracts giving reasons reported as “incredible”, and varying with every new ministerial pronouncement.
One insider said last week: “For those of us in the know, the cancellation of the OPVs remains incredible! The reasons given to the media are not accurate. All ministers (of National Security) were briefed on the project, yet there are these public excuses. So T&T, after ten years, is back to zero.”
The cancellation was arbitrated in London, and BAE returned the deposit, not because T&T won, but because the vessels were bought immediately by the Brazilian coast guard which has since ordered six more.
The Manning government had intended to use the OPVs mainly in drug surveillance operations throughout the southern Caribbean. Yet, the People’s Partnership Government cancelled the BAE order without any replacement strategy, providing only the PM’s explanation that the fight against drugs would not be on the sea but on land.
Last year, the National Security Ministry conducted an audit of the Coast Guard. In January-February a team visited South Korea, Netherlands and Colombia to view their dockyards, and according to sources its members were in the process of reporting to the National Security Minister when our PM made the request to the Chinese premier.
The new National Security Minister now talks glibly about his plans for the LRVs to be part of a three-tier security wall around T&T. But a country does not purchase an OPV as if it were a retail store item, which is what the PM did in China last month. It takes years of detailed maritime studies and financial negotiations to conclude such arrangements.
Apparently, realising the Beijing mis-step, the PM last week tried to correct herself. She gave a new narrative; her request was neither “Chinese madness” nor absurdity.
“It was no on-the-spot decision. Far from it! It is a matter we have been looking at for some time,” and she added that the technical team had been mandated to look at the issue some time ago.
But her Beijing request was said to be a done deal. The statement from the Office of the Prime Minister indicated that the PM had “convinced” the Chinese premier to sell the LRV to T&T in the shortest possible time.
Yet the PM said on Thursday: “If a purchase is made from China, or from any other country, it will be in accordance with the agreed criteria and technical requirements, as well as the professional recommendations of the team.”
So on one hand there is the PM’s official request to the Chinese premier; on the other hand, she speaks of her Government’s plans to assess the report of the technical team.
Of considerable importance will be concerns of the governments of the Netherlands, South Korea and Colombia — the countries the team visited — which have not been informed through diplomatic channels of the Prime Minister’s Beijing decision.
So the Beijing deal? Or the team’s assessment? Once again we in T&T are left wondering which way is north.
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Good enough for The Royal Navy and Brazilian Navy, but not good enough for T&T Coast Guard :bs:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/20-million-contract-for-new-royal-navy-ships?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=news-story-20-million-contract-for-new-royal-navy-ships
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Ah hear that crime watch fella in the coast guard now ..he say it have plenty of ........
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Govt borrowing $478m to buy patrol vessels
By Asha Javeed (Express).
The Government ordered 12 vessels from Dutch Damen Shipyards for TT$1.358 billion for the Trinidad and Tobago Coast Guard without the money in hand to pay for them.
It accepted one vessel - the TTS Point Lisas - which Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar toured last Wednesday when it was docked at the Port of Spain Waterfront, without being able to make a downpayment.
The Government needs an immediate US$75 million to pay for six of the vessels.
And it will go to Parliament this week to secure it.
In the proposed Variation Appropriation Bill, the Ministry of National Security is seeking $478 million.
The Note recalls that "Cabinet agreed to source funding in the amount of US$75 million as a downpayment to ensure the delivery of naval assets. Pending finalisation of financing agreements with the preferred financial institution, the ministry requires funding in the short term in order to adhere to obligations to the vendor".
The Government's contract with Damen is for four Damen Stan Patrol 5009 coastal patrol vessels, two Damen Fast Crew Supply 5009 utility vessels, and six Damen Interceptor DI 1002 boats.
Persad-Bissessar, in her address, had said the second vessel - the TTS La Brea - would arrive in T&T tomorrow with the other four interceptor vessels due in July, with final receipt of all 12 by year-end.
Howai: We are borrowing to buy boats
Finance Minister Larry Howai said in response to e-mailed questions on Saturday: "Twelve ships have been ordered. One has so far been delivered. Another is due this week and a further one together with three interceptors in the next month. The payment process is not a problem. The payment to be made now is a downpayment on the 12 vessels. The Government has suppressed a number of expenditures over the past year and therefore has a number of options in the Appropriation Bill.
"We are borrowing to acquire the boat and we expect to complete the transaction in the week of June 22. There was a delay in doing so as there was not an appropriation in the budget and we shall correct that by making an appropriation in the bill that will go to Parliament next week."
Howai added:" This bill will be a variation rather than a supplementation so what that means is that we shall suppress expenditure (in keeping with our strategy to limit expenditure this year) to allow for the completion of the transaction without increasing the budgeted appropriation."
The Express understands that the Government's decision to vary its budgetary expenditure to accommodate the cost of the vessels is because it could not conclude a loan from a European Development Bank to fund the transaction on time.
Informed sources explained that it had approached First Citizens to secure a bond but was unable to do so because it would impact on the country's debt ceiling.
Debt ceiling not yet reached
According to the Central Bank data, as of March 2015, the Government had not yet reached its ceiling.
For the Development Loans Act, the legal limit is TT$30 billion and at the end of March 2015, the figure was TT$27.3 billion.
For the External Loans Act the legal limit is TT$15 billion and at the end of March 2015, the figure was TT$9.3 billion.
The Government then explored the option of having another State enterprise - the National Infrastructure Property Development Company (Nipdec) - take a loan of its behalf from First Citizens to acquire the vessels, as a bridge facility until the developmental loan was secured.
Howai confirmed this:
"We did explore the possibility of using Nipdec to acquire the vessel (as they do acquisitions for the Government) but, as I indicated in the previous e-mail, we are proposing to deal with it in the Appropriation Bill instead.
"We have not paid for the vessel as we need to obtain the approval first. In fact, I should add that once approval is received we don't necessarily need the loan as our cash position can allow for the acquisition without necessarily borrowing but we shall complete the loan as I want to ensure that we retain a good cash buffer," he said.
PM: Boats to patrol coasts
Persad-Bissessar had boasted that the vessels "will immediately get to work to boost the capability of the Defence Force to allow T&T more effective management of our coastal waters. The vessels will also patrol the waters of our country's exclusive economic zone".
She had also said that the 12 vessels cost less than the three offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) that were ordered by the PNM Government.
In the arbitration between Trinidad and Tobago and the UK firm British Aerospace Engineering (BAE) Systems, T&T was compensated $1.382 billion.
It was argued that the $1.382 billion settlement was simply a refund equivalent to the £133 million sale by BAE to Brazil.
And far from earning money from this arbitration, this country had actually lost - not in settlement but in dollars spent.
During his campaigning for the 2010 elections, Manning had posited that the drug lords had wanted him out of power because of his goal to eradicate the drug trade.
Three months after assuming office, the People's Partnership Government cancelled the order for the three OPVs on the basis of their missed deadlines and their weaponry did not conform to contract specifications.
In its 2011 International Narcotics Control Strategy Reports, the United States Government noted: "However, the new government has de-emphasised regional efforts and assistance programme, including some security-related projects that would impact counter-narcotics efforts, in order to focus greater attention on domestic issues."
On the OPVs, the Country Report on T&T stated: "There are no plans to supplant that deep-water patrol capability in the short-term."
It said the Government "struggles to effectively co-ordinate and implement its drug-control assets, and maintenance issues, corruption, and gaps in the legislative framework remain challenges."
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It damn good for we.
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In 2010 the fighting was not on the sea it was on land she refuse the OPV,in 2015 she want to fight crime on the sea Kams gul take a next drink of vodka with red bulls and tell everybody where too go and fork themselves .
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Every month we getting closer to the debt ceiling.
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This corrupt incompetent government has done its 5 years and needs to call an election date so the public can plan to go to the polls to give its verdict on the government's performance over the last 5 years.
What this government proved in 2010 is that Trinidadians are very gullible and Tobagonians are generally much smarter and don't fall as easily for media PR.
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PM hands over six vessels to Coast Guard.
By Joel Julien (Express).
SIX out of a dozen vessels purchased by the Government for the Coast Guard, at a cost of $1.3 billion, were handed over yesterday.
Delivering the feature address at Stauble’s Bay in Chaguaramas, Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar said we cannot put a price on the nation’s “security and protection”, and the investment is “money well spent”.
The six vessels—one coastal patrol vessel, two utility vessels and three interceptors—which were handed over yesterday are the first new vessels the Coast Guard has received in 30 years, Persad-Bissessar said.
The remaining six vessels are expected before the end of the year, she said.
“These vessels represent the first new vessels provided to the Coast Guard in three decades, 30 years, that is indeed significant as we celebrate our 52nd anniversary and, of course, the anniversary of the Coast Guard.
“So for the first time in 30 years, new vessels coming in, and I would like to also say that we have three more vessels due to come in before the end of the year, those are also equipped with interceptors, so there are three ships and the three interceptors as well,” said the Prime Minister.
The vessels cost approximately US$213.8 million, Persad-Bissessar said.
“The acquisition of the coastal patrol vessels, the utility vessels and the interceptors cost Trinidad and Tobago about US$213.8 million for the Defence Force...Coast Guard, but I do believe we cannot put a price on our nation’s security and protection, and this investment is money well spent so that you can feel safe, knowing that our security forces have the best equipment and tools available,” she said.
Persad-Bissessar said the vessels will help the Coast Guard more effectively secure this country.
(http://www.trinidadexpress.com/storyimage/TT/20150827/LOCAL/150829651/AR/0/AR-150829651.jpg&MaxW=730&imageversion=Article)
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PM hands over six vessels to Coast Guard.
By Joel Julien (Express).
The six vessels—one coastal patrol vessel, two utility vessels and three interceptors—which were handed over yesterday are the first new vessels the Coast Guard has received in 30 years, Persad-Bissessar said.
“These vessels represent the first new vessels provided to the Coast Guard in three decades, 30 years, that is indeed significant as we celebrate our 52nd anniversary and, of course, the anniversary of the Coast Guard.
“So for the first time in 30 years, new vessels coming in, and I would like to also say that we have three more vessels due to come in before the end of the year, those are also equipped with interceptors, so there are three ships and the three interceptors as well,” said the Prime Minister.
(http://www.trinidadexpress.com/storyimage/TT/20150827/LOCAL/150829651/AR/0/AR-150829651.jpg&MaxW=730&imageversion=Article)
Blatant lies. The Coast guard received 6 brand new fast patrol vessels (from Austal in Australia) 5 years ago under the last administration; a few of which were probably moored right behind her as she spoke.
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PM hands over six vessels to Coast Guard.
By Joel Julien (Express).
The six vessels—one coastal patrol vessel, two utility vessels and three interceptors—which were handed over yesterday are the first new vessels the Coast Guard has received in 30 years, Persad-Bissessar said.
Dont worry. There are people who would believe it.
“These vessels represent the first new vessels provided to the Coast Guard in three decades, 30 years, that is indeed significant as we celebrate our 52nd anniversary and, of course, the anniversary of the Coast Guard.
“So for the first time in 30 years, new vessels coming in, and I would like to also say that we have three more vessels due to come in before the end of the year, those are also equipped with interceptors, so there are three ships and the three interceptors as well,” said the Prime Minister.
(http://www.trinidadexpress.com/storyimage/TT/20150827/LOCAL/150829651/AR/0/AR-150829651.jpg&MaxW=730&imageversion=Article)
Blatant lies. The Coast guard received 6 brand new fast patrol vessels (from Austal in Australia) 5 years ago under the last administration; a few of which were probably moored right behind her as she spoke.
Well there are people who would believe what she said.
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Blatant lies. The Coast guard received 6 brand new fast patrol vessels (from Austal in Australia) 5 years ago under the last administration; a few of which were probably moored right behind her as she spoke.
Yeah don't understand her comment - her speech writers must be confusing themselves. The coast guard has gotten brand new boats over the last 30 years. I think that they are getting confused about the smaller interceptor boats or the longer range patrol boats and misleading the public.
These are the 6 brand new interceptor boats purchased under the last Manning administration:
CG11 T&T Scarlet Ibis
CG12 T&T Hibiscus
CG13 T&T Humming Bird
CG14 T&T Chaconia
CG 15 T&T Poui
CG16 T&T Teak
We haven't had a brand new patrol boats however in a few years, but we've acquired refurbished boats over the last decade.
2008 - CG22 TTS Chacachacare (formerly the MV Andrew) - Acquired by the last Manning administration
2008 - CG21 TTS Gaspar Grande (formerly the MV Tammany) - Acquired by the last Manning administration
2001 - CG10 TTS Bacolet Point (formerly the Point Highland from the USCG) - this was also acquired during the UNC/Panday administration which Kamla was part of
2001 - CG9 TTS Galera Point (formerly the Point Bonita from the USCG) - this was also acquired during the UNC/Panday administration which Kamla was part of
2000 - CG20 TTS Nelson (formerly the HMS Orkney of the British Navy) - this was also acquired during the UNC/Panday administration which Kamla was part of. This was the boat that spent 99.9% of its time docked near the Cruise Ship complex then ended up getting hit by a St Vincent Ferry boat and put out of service. It is (was?) our only "Island" class vessel.
1999 - CG8 TTS Crown Point (formerly the Point Heyer from the USCG) - this was acquired during the UNC/NAR administration which Kamla was also part of
1999 - CG7 TTS Corozal Point (formerly the Point Bennett from the USCG) - this was acquired during the UNC/NAR administration which Kamla was also part of
That said, whether a boat is "brand new" or purchased refurbished, the biggest problem is the maintenance of these ships. Our coast guard has been notorious for the last several decades of doing a poor job on keeping these boats sea-worthy. If we don't fix that underlying issue, no amount of new toys are going to help us.
Additionally, given that it is reported that the majority of illegal drugs/guns come into our country through legal ports (shipping containers / docked ships / airport), all these politicians are fooling the public unless they start really addressing our corrupt customs.
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In reporting, should Mr Julien not made some sort of edit or note/byline or something to the article mentioning or questioning the remark made by the Hon Prime Minister?
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In reporting, should Mr Julien not made some sort of edit or note/byline or something to the article mentioning or questioning the remark made by the Hon Prime Minister?
I think you're suggesting our journalists apply critical thinking when writing articles :rotfl: