Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
Sports => Football => Topic started by: 1-868 on March 12, 2010, 03:03:47 PM
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http://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/blog/sow_experts/post/U-S-U-17-women-beat-Haiti-9-0-then-offer-hugs?urn=sow,227662
On Wednesday, the U.S. women's under-17 team defeated Haiti 9-0 in their first qualifying match for the CONCACAF U-17 Women's Championships in Costa Rica. Once the final whistle blew, Haitian goalkeeper Alexandra Coby was so overwhelmed with emotion that she dropped to the pitch, weeping. It was all just too much for her and understandably so -- losing by such a harsh margin, even to a much better team, is always difficult to take, but given that Haiti is in the midst of trying to recover from the devastating earthquake that ravaged the Caribbean nation's capital two months ago and left hundreds of thousands of people dead, there was much more saddling these girls than just a lost game.
And the U.S. team saw that. As Haiti's coach helped the crying goalkeeper to her feet, U.S. goalie Bryane Heaberlin walked the length of the pitch, gave Coby a hug and didn't let go. The rest of the U.S. team soon joined her, circling around the two goalkeepers for a long group hug that left the entire squad in tears.
Said Heaberlin to USsoccer.com:
“I saw her crying and that was pretty hard for me to see. She’s a 'keeper and we have that bond. I knew that she had probably lost people close to her, and when she goes home she might not have anywhere to go. I gave her a big hug and told her she did great. She came to compete in this tournament despite all that she’s been through and I have tremendous respect for her.”
Haiti's participation in the tournament despite all that's going on back home for them has been the talk of the competition and the team's determination and bravery hasn't been lost on their opponents. Added U.S. defender Olivia Brannon:
“It just put everything into perspective. It makes you realize what is truly important, your family, having a roof over your head, and having food on the table. We take all those things for granted. I had my mom in the stands cheering for me tonight. Some of these girls might never have that again.”
So while the match itself may have seemed like piling on, it should be pointed out that the U.S. team didn't pander to their Haitian counterparts, instead showing them the respect of playing hard the whole game before sharing their true feelings and consolations after the final whistle. And these young Haitian girls will hopefully go back knowing that they're not alone.
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Nice story
It easy fuh a conqueror to be honourable doh.
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If they showed no respect your post would have called the American Girls non-caring, they show respect and the post says "so what". The world has grown so cynical. I am not sure what the proper response should have been, but unlike you sir I will choose not to make ugly what on the surface appears to be simply and act of respect and compassion, and when such an act come from a child it behooves us to embrace, when we some many of our young women making babies while themselvves still babies our young men gunning each other down in the streets. Sir I choose to view this as a "good thing".
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Thus far , i have to say this game is a slaughter. Its aleady 5-0 in favour of the US girls at the 32nd min. Cayman is playing a very high defense and the us is just tearing them apart. I feel so sorry for them because they haven't made it out their own half properly as yet and I expecting this game to hit double digits.
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its 7-0 now at the 39th minute wait as i am typing they just made that number 8 for the US U-17. IF you think Haiti game was a blow out i dont know what to call this one
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10 - nil
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11-0 now
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i honestly cannon call this a game, with all that Haiti had going on and they have alot going on i still thing they did quite well all things considered. 12-0 is kinda sad yes
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh boy............ If ah wasn't liking Bryane Heaberlin before because she's a 'keeper, a liking she now because she have a compassionate heart. :applause:
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There really isn't too much respectful about this story.
If this game was played in Europe I could NEVER see ah team like England doing that (even though they not meh favorite team).
Ah country in so much turmoil and yuh beat them 9-0 and you think yuh being nice and respectful because yuh hug them at the end.
Even though T&T wasn't in turmoil and it was ah friendly I couldn't see England playing in T&T and hitting we fuh 9-0 at home even if they could.
Ah understand they in ah competition but to demoralize them and then say it was respectful is crap.
Don't really blame them then but there really isn't much to call respectful in this instance.
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Trini massive I could not disagree with you more. Let me give you some insight into our philosophy with our teams that I don't expect you to agree with. It truly begins with a certain level of respect. We prepare for each opponent and try to play hard every minute of the game because we respect our opponents. We don't take our opponents lightly. These girls and our staff would have been disrespecting the Haitians if we played a man down or tried to score off of a headed a cross or volley or some other dumb situation I often see. Even if they tried to keep the ball in our half of the field or their half half of the field making them chase would have been very been disrespectful. So to deal with it knowing what Haiti just wen through we still had to play the game.We still prepared the players in the best way we could have to compete in the game. Then when it was ll said and done, the kids were able to let down their guard and show their emotions. I see nothing wrong with this. If we had a chance to do it all over again, we would do it the same way
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I said it before I will say it again, It is time to take the USA out of concacaf, I dont care about the circumstances of geography. NOBODY benefits from these qualifying rounds not even the USA. I am on this site seeing TT looking for a U-15 Goalie, yet the USA U-15 age group probley has 400 to 500 goalies who would show up to an open tryout. 100 of them would be presentable, 50 would be good, 25 of them would be great, and 7 of them would be amazing,and we can't find 1 (0ne) no not 1. Do not talk to me about Mexico, the truth of the matter is that the proximity of Mexico to the USA as well as the large influx of Mexicans into America and thus their kids benefiting from the American system and then going back and playing for Mexico has made them nothing more than America's other team. The number of girls on the Mexico starting team from California and the Soutwest of America who start and or play at least half the game is 8 that's right 8. TT and the other islands cannot ever compete on any level with the natural resources of USA the migrating dynamics of Mexico. The idea that the gap is closing is foolish, every so often TT will acquire a few girls to make it competive, but then it will only revert back to the normal course of things such as the TT U-15 looking for a goalie. Any one who thinks that a National Class goalie can be found, created, or manufactureds in 18 month or two years is fooling themselves. Even if we found a serviceable goalie she will be trained in a system that it is itself not at a National level so how can the goalie ever reach that level. Do I believe we should ever give up NO ,but we should admit what everyone knows That "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity". Change how, where and when we train our girls. , Training in Trinidad against other Trinidad girls will NEVER work, to small a pool to little talent. Take every dime we have allocated for Womens soccer in TT use to start a league for four and five year old TT girls, form more than one league if possible, these leagues should depend on some federation sponsorship and some parent payments. The leagues should have as their core values; teaching skills and an agreed upon playing style, be it possession, kick in run, it does not matter as long as it is consistant and uniformed across the island, from these leagues National Coaches, through recommendations and observations, should began to identify possible canidates for our National Teams these girls from about 9 years of age and on should began to work together as a team attending tournaments in the USA and other places where the competition prepares one for playing at the National level. I dont necessarily agree with the Chinese method of training nor do I believe we could afford it, or that a TT parent would allow for their daughter from about age 6 or 7 to go to a National school away from their parents where besides education the focus of that school is a particular sport, but something less than that may work. For those of you who wish to come on here and disagree I welcome your responses, it is after all the purpose of this site, but NOTHING you will say will change my mind about the USA being in our league for qualifiers, getting beat up by the same person every day does not build character, and while running from that person does not build character either, I want to find out what that person does and do the same thing, only better. I apologize for rambling but every time I see an island of barely a million people get dismantled by a country of 300 plus million I ask myself would the powers that be allow such a disparity if the losing side was of a lighter complexion, I hope that I am wrong about my assumptions.
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I said it before I will say it again, It is time to take the USA out of concacaf, I dont care about the circumstances of geography. NOBODY benefits from these qualifying rounds not even the USA. I am on this site seeing TT looking for a U-15 Goalie, yet the USA U-15 age group probley has 400 to 500 goalies who would show up to an open tryout. 100 of them would be presentable, 50 would be good, 25 of them would be great, and 7 of them would be amazing,and we can't find 1 (0ne) no not 1. Do not talk to me about Mexico, the truth of the matter is that the proximity of Mexico to the USA as well as the large influx of Mexicans into America and thus their kids benefiting from the American system and then going back and playing for Mexico has made them nothing more than America's other team. The number of girls on the Mexico starting team from California and the Soutwest of America who start and or play at least half the game is 8 that's right 8. TT and the other islands cannot ever compete on any level with the natural resources of USA the migrating dynamics of Mexico. The idea that the gap is closing is foolish, every so often TT will acquire a few girls to make it competive, but then it will only revert back to the normal course of things such as the TT U-15 looking for a goalie. Any one who thinks that a National Class goalie can be found, created, or manufactureds in 18 month or two years is fooling themselves. Even if we found a serviceable goalie she will be trained in a system that it is itself not at a National level so how can the goalie ever reach that level. Do I believe we should ever give up NO ,but we should admit what everyone knows That "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity". Change how, where and when we train our girls. , Training in Trinidad against other Trinidad girls will NEVER work, to small a pool to little talent. Take every dime we have allocated for Womens soccer in TT use to start a league for four and five year old TT girls, form more than one league if possible, these leagues should depend on some federation sponsorship and some parent payments. The leagues should have as their core values; teaching skills and an agreed upon playing style, be it possession, kick in run, it does not matter as long as it is consistant and uniformed across the island, from these leagues National Coaches, through recommendations and observations, should began to identify possible canidates for our National Teams these girls from about 9 years of age and on should began to work together as a team attending tournaments in the USA and other places where the competition prepares one for playing at the National level. I dont necessarily agree with the Chinese method of training nor do I believe we could afford it, or that a TT parent would allow for their daughter from about age 6 or 7 to go to a National school away from their parents where besides education the focus of that school is a particular sport, but something less than that may work. For those of you who wish to come on here and disagree I welcome your responses, it is after all the purpose of this site, but NOTHING you will say will change my mind about the USA being in our league for qualifiers, getting beat up by the same person every day does not build character, and while running from that person does not build character either, I want to find out what that person does and do the same thing, only better. I apologize for rambling but every time I see an island of barely a million people get dismantled by a country of 300 plus million I ask myself would the powers that be allow such a disparity if the losing side was of a lighter complexion, I hope that I am wrong about my assumptions.
That is a real loser statement. I hope you don't coach kids.
NO ONE RISE TO LOW EXPECTATIONS!!!!!!
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Trini massive I could not disagree with you more. Let me give you some insight into our philosophy with our teams that I don't expect you to agree with. It truly begins with a certain level of respect. We prepare for each opponent and try to play hard every minute of the game because we respect our opponents. We don't take our opponents lightly. These girls and our staff would have been disrespecting the Haitians if we played a man down or tried to score off of a headed a cross or volley or some other dumb situation I often see. Even if they tried to keep the ball in our half of the field or their half half of the field making them chase would have been very been disrespectful. So to deal with it knowing what Haiti just wen through we still had to play the game.We still prepared the players in the best way we could have to compete in the game. Then when it was ll said and done, the kids were able to let down their guard and show their emotions. I see nothing wrong with this. If we had a chance to do it all over again, we would do it the same way
Men just don't understand. We in Trini will always struggle. When yo step on that pitch you play as you are playing the best tea i the world. Remember the "Art of War" tells you that one of the biggest mistake to make in war is to underestimate your opponent. As Trinibagonians we does break this rule all the time.
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well am sure that Canada and USA would have something to say about the USA not having to qualify.
Thats like saying to the TnT mens hey are you okay if Italy and France and Portugal are given a spot in the final 64 as they are so good that they don;t have to qualify.
On the womens side the USA is so far ahead of the rest of the pack something needs looking at however it needs to be fair and eaquitable for all involved. There has been talk that all three (canada Mexico and the USA will have to qualify for Concacaf) as the Concacaf countries are now saying why should they get a free ride and we have to qualify. Anways.... thoughts ? comments !!!!!!!!
Cheers
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12-0 9-0 that my friend were the scores . Today you will see more carnage. And while you seek to call me a loser with low expectations. I will only respond with what I said previously INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND EXPECTING A DIFFERNT OUTCOME. FUNNY HOW THE DEFINITIOIN FOR INSANITY HAS THE WORD EXPECTATIONS IN IT
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The score was actually 13 nil?
should there be mercey rules in womens youth soccer in the opening rounds ?
whether it be concacaf , Caf , Uefa , Conmbeol??
we dont see these types of high scoring results in any other part of the world in womens youth qualifying except in Concacaf ?
Cheers
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I think taking the us out of the concacaf is a loser statement ..... these teams losing to the us is not an indication of how well prepared the us is but rather how unprepared the other teams are ...... improvement wont come about by removing competition but rather by stepping up their own preparations!
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triplethreat33,
12-0 and 9-0 etc is definitely a slaughter, but I must disagree with some of your other comments. Although regional teams are getting beat down by the US, I think it is still a learning experience that will aid in the continued development of both teams. Teams that actively work at becoming better and are continuously exposed to higher levels of competition will eventually rise to the occasion. If cayman Islands continues to play against better teams, they will eventually improve. Most teams in the world better than cayman islands anyway, but if you at the bottom the only direction to go is up. Also, from the point of view of the US, playing teams like Cayman Islands might be a good opportunity to build player confidence and sharpen finishing skills. Also it may be a good opportunity to give some bench players full game match practice.
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http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/07/03/rise.kids.sports/index.html
Please read this article it states in 2002 8 years ago 15000000 15 million kids were playing soccer in the USA
The population of Trinidad in 2009 is 1,229,953 (July 2009 est.)
if you took the children in America who play soccer and bought them to our tiny island it would swell the population by a factor of 15.
List of countries by wealth places USA at # 7 tRINIDAD AT #41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
I AM NOT BEING NEGATIVE, I am a realist
Definition of SPORT
A sport is commonly defined as an organized, competitive, and skillful physical activity requiring commitment and fair play. It is governed by a set of rules or customs. In a sport the key factors are the physical capabilities and skills of the competitor when determining the outcome (winning or losing).
We seek to blame our coaches and our players preparations and this makes sense because it is two things we can control so to focus on these factors gives us hope. Hope sounds like an aspiring aspect it is the stuff we see in movies it is the stuff of legends it is great locker room talk, what it is not is 15 million children playing some organized level of youth soccer, what it is not is an economy multiple times bigger than ours. We will speak of playing with heart, we will speak of playing with strenght, and this will overcome the toughest of adversaries we will tell stories of how david slew Goliath, and all the time the scores come in 12-0 9-0 what you must remember is your opponent even the big ones have a heart and desire to win. I say beat your enemy and his own game, go into his own backyard and use his strenghts against him The US soccer program has showed us how to create a sucessful program starting at the youth level. We bring these Trini/Americans to Trinidad to train for a few weeks out of the year, WRONG bring the Trini girls to USA and let them compete in the USA system. The system has proven sucessful, it is already in place. It is okay to disagree with me I respect that but please remember our goal is the same a sucessful National program. PS if you look at the Canadian and Mexico National womens team they are all scheduled to play against American colleges in the next 6 to 8 weeks during the American colleges spring season. IF I AM WRONG THEN WHY ARE OUR COMPETITION DOING EXCATLY WHAT I SUGGEST HERE
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Great suggestion TT33 ... Well the U17's would get killed playing the college teams IMHO, they would fair better versus top Super Y club teams in the states. As soon as school is done for the 17's in TnT it would be smart for the TTFF Womens program to arrange a two to three week or even a one month tour of playing top Super Y club teams in say Florida as Florida has very good competition. This tour would help the team in its WC competition for September. The costs could be augmented by having the team stay at University dorms. They could also play USA U17's towards the end of the tour and or at least the top Florida region players in the USA player pool. This would give pellerud a good chance to really see where the squad is in terms of its overall development.
Cheers
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I said it before I will say it again, It is time to take the USA out of concacaf, I dont care about the circumstances of geography. NOBODY benefits from these qualifying rounds not even the USA. I am on this site seeing TT looking for a U-15 Goalie, yet the USA U-15 age group probley has 400 to 500 goalies who would show up to an open tryout. 100 of them would be presentable, 50 would be good, 25 of them would be great, and 7 of them would be amazing,and we can't find 1 (0ne) no not 1. Do not talk to me about Mexico, the truth of the matter is that the proximity of Mexico to the USA as well as the large influx of Mexicans into America and thus their kids benefiting from the American system and then going back and playing for Mexico has made them nothing more than America's other team. The number of girls on the Mexico starting team from California and the Soutwest of America who start and or play at least half the game is 8 that's right 8. TT and the other islands cannot ever compete on any level with the natural resources of USA the migrating dynamics of Mexico. The idea that the gap is closing is foolish, every so often TT will acquire a few girls to make it competive, but then it will only revert back to the normal course of things such as the TT U-15 looking for a goalie. Any one who thinks that a National Class goalie can be found, created, or manufactureds in 18 month or two years is fooling themselves. Even if we found a serviceable goalie she will be trained in a system that it is itself not at a National level so how can the goalie ever reach that level. Do I believe we should ever give up NO ,but we should admit what everyone knows That "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity". Change how, where and when we train our girls. , Training in Trinidad against other Trinidad girls will NEVER work, to small a pool to little talent. Take every dime we have allocated for Womens soccer in TT use to start a league for four and five year old TT girls, form more than one league if possible, these leagues should depend on some federation sponsorship and some parent payments. The leagues should have as their core values; teaching skills and an agreed upon playing style, be it possession, kick in run, it does not matter as long as it is consistant and uniformed across the island, from these leagues National Coaches, through recommendations and observations, should began to identify possible canidates for our National Teams these girls from about 9 years of age and on should began to work together as a team attending tournaments in the USA and other places where the competition prepares one for playing at the National level. I dont necessarily agree with the Chinese method of training nor do I believe we could afford it, or that a TT parent would allow for their daughter from about age 6 or 7 to go to a National school away from their parents where besides education the focus of that school is a particular sport, but something less than that may work. For those of you who wish to come on here and disagree I welcome your responses, it is after all the purpose of this site, but NOTHING you will say will change my mind about the USA being in our league for qualifiers, getting beat up by the same person every day does not build character, and while running from that person does not build character either, I want to find out what that person does and do the same thing, only better. I apologize for rambling but every time I see an island of barely a million people get dismantled by a country of 300 plus million I ask myself would the powers that be allow such a disparity if the losing side was of a lighter complexion, I hope that I am wrong about my assumptions.
That is a real loser statement. I hope you don't coach kids.
NO ONE RISE TO LOW EXPECTATIONS!!!!!!
To my friend elan the Jamaica womens U-20 team no longer exist, the constant losing has caused this country to abandon (for now) their womens u-20 program with the u-17 program soon to follow I am sure. These girls had I am sure high expectations as did their fellow countryman and friends and family. What they did not have is the resources of the USA. I would have rather seen the rules changes somehow ( and yes I dont now how) but in some way that would have fostered a more level playing field or at least a real chance for these young ladies to achieve some success.
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The Jamaican senior women's national team is also on hold for the foreseeable future due to funding issues :o
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12-0 9-0 that my friend were the scores . Today you will see more carnage. And while you seek to call me a loser with low expectations. I will only respond with what I said previously INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND EXPECTING A DIFFERNT OUTCOME. FUNNY HOW THE DEFINITIOIN FOR INSANITY HAS THE WORD EXPECTATIONS IN IT
Hey first off, I never call you a loser with low expectations.
Why not say all the other teams should work harder? What about that? The US is good not only because of their resources and their player pool, but mainly because of their mentally. They think that they are the best and then they seek to prove such. While we out here thinking that they to strong and we should be given a break.
We should be working to equal them by putting things in place to reach that next level. Women soccer in T&T has been stagmant since it's inception. We have had a couple decent palyers, but that's it. Look how long we have the same head coaches doing the same thing and expecting different results. Look at how many coaches the US women's teams have had over the years. It is a constant evolving process. We have no process muchless for it to evolve.
If we don't think that we can hack it with the likes of the US and others why enter the tournaments? Don't we have a choice? To use the US success against them is a cop out and weak minded of us. Let us step up and do better.
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elan, if I have 15 milliion kids to choose from I will choose the 18 with the best mental attitude since my pool consist of 15 million kids a pool 15 times bigger than the entire population of Trinidad. The 18 will be the most skilled the most mentally tough. If my TT pool consist of a few thousand players by simple math alone I may not get the same quality of player. to put it in perspective every time you walk around Trinidad just imagine Every time you see a man woman or child, standing next to each of them would be 15 US kids with soccer balls in their hands. I have saw over the years that TT has focused on fitness, the theory being that if we can't out skill our oppenents we will out fitness them. The problem is that the US teams depth only requires a girl to play hard for 1/2 a game the girl coming off the bench is just as good. You also call of going to USA to practice and compete a cop out, well the Mexican national teams and the canadian national teams are also copping out they will be in the USA over the next several weeks playing several nationall ranked college teams.
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12-0 9-0 that my friend were the scores . Today you will see more carnage. And while you seek to call me a loser with low expectations. I will only respond with what I said previously INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND EXPECTING A DIFFERNT OUTCOME. FUNNY HOW THE DEFINITIOIN FOR INSANITY HAS THE WORD EXPECTATIONS IN IT
Hey first off, I never call you a loser with low expectations.
Why not say all the other teams should work harder? What about that? The US is good not only because of their resources and their player pool, but mainly because of their mentally. They think that they are the best and then they seek to prove such. While we out here thinking that they to strong and we should be given a break.
We should be working to equal them by putting things in place to reach that next level. Women soccer in T&T has been stagmant since it's inception. We have had a couple decent palyers, but that's it. Look how long we have the same head coaches doing the same thing and expecting different results. Look at how many coaches the US women's teams have had over the years. It is a constant evolving process. We have no process muchless for it to evolve.
If we don't think that we can hack it with the likes of the US and others why enter the tournaments? Don't we have a choice? To use the US success against them is a cop out and weak minded of us. Let us step up and do better.
As for putting things in place we have not the resources or talent Elan we cant even find a single girl to play goalie for our u-15 team (wake up man) We do not need to put resources in place we need only to utilize the resources available to us just a 5 hour airplane ride away. Our people go to the US to better themselves financially and then return, why can we not do the same for our National teams.
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Great suggestion TT33 ... Well the U17's would get killed playing the college teams IMHO, they would fair better versus top Super Y club teams in the states. As soon as school is done for the 17's in TnT it would be smart for the TTFF Womens program to arrange a two to three week or even a one month tour of playing top Super Y club teams in say Florida as Florida has very good competition. This tour would help the team in its WC competition for September. The costs could be augmented by having the team stay at University dorms. They could also play USA U17's towards the end of the tour and or at least the top Florida region players in the USA player pool. This would give pellerud a good chance to really see where the squad is in terms of its overall development.
Cheers
This idea has been suggested and offered T&T many times over, but to no avail. I know people who have offered alot of resources that could support the women from here in the US...but the people in T&T who run football don't believe that the US system is good enough for developing their players, that's why they continue to do things the same way. It seems that the idea of just relying on one experienced European coach is the answer. This is an easy job for Pellerud and the previous US staff...a few months in the sun with good pay and your team is hosting the WC...why not? Why do anything more? The US men and women at every age group dominate Concacaf...apart from the numbers and resources, they have a system and mind set that has allowed them to be consistantly successful in the region and world stage, there must be something that we could learn from them. Furthermore, there are many trinis contributing to the US system of success.
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On a different note: I painfully watched this trashing last night and I could not help but notice a few things with CI squad. I don't understand how in modern football you can play low pressure; with a high restraining line trying to create an off side trap and the gk plays in the penalty area all at the same time. It is not tactically sound nor does it replicate the principles of the game. Secondly, every time the US had a corner kick, they had 2 players on the ball and CI had 1...I don't recall ever seing them send another player to make the situation a 2v2.
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12-0 9-0 that my friend were the scores . Today you will see more carnage. And while you seek to call me a loser with low expectations. I will only respond with what I said previously INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND EXPECTING A DIFFERNT OUTCOME. FUNNY HOW THE DEFINITIOIN FOR INSANITY HAS THE WORD EXPECTATIONS IN IT
Hey first off, I never call you a loser with low expectations.
Why not say all the other teams should work harder? What about that? The US is good not only because of their resources and their player pool, but mainly because of their mentally. They think that they are the best and then they seek to prove such. While we out here thinking that they to strong and we should be given a break.
We should be working to equal them by putting things in place to reach that next level. Women soccer in T&T has been stagmant since it's inception. We have had a couple decent palyers, but that's it. Look how long we have the same head coaches doing the same thing and expecting different results. Look at how many coaches the US women's teams have had over the years. It is a constant evolving process. We have no process muchless for it to evolve.
If we don't think that we can hack it with the likes of the US and others why enter the tournaments? Don't we have a choice? To use the US success against them is a cop out and weak minded of us. Let us step up and do better.
As for putting things in place we have not the resources or talent Elan we cant even find a single girl to play goalie for our u-15 team (wake up man) We do not need to put resources in place we need only to utilize the resources available to us just a 5 hour airplane ride away. Our people go to the US to better themselves financially and then return, why can we not do the same for our National teams.
So you honestly believe that if our player pool were to increase over night the manner in which we do things will bring us some form of success? How many times has China won anything? Arguably the most indutrious people in the world, no?
Great suggestion TT33 ... Well the U17's would get killed playing the college teams IMHO, they would fair better versus top Super Y club teams in the states. As soon as school is done for the 17's in TnT it would be smart for the TTFF Womens program to arrange a two to three week or even a one month tour of playing top Super Y club teams in say Florida as Florida has very good competition. This tour would help the team in its WC competition for September. The costs could be augmented by having the team stay at University dorms. They could also play USA U17's towards the end of the tour and or at least the top Florida region players in the USA player pool. This would give pellerud a good chance to really see where the squad is in terms of its overall development.
Cheers
This idea has been suggested and offered T&T many times over, but to no avail. I know people who have offered alot of resources that could support the women from here in the US...but the people in T&T who run football don't believe that the US system is good enough for developing their players, that's why they continue to do things the same way. It seems that the idea of just relying on one experienced European coach is the answer. This is an easy job for Pellerud and the previous US staff...a few months in the sun with good pay and your team is hosting the WC...why not? Why do anything more? The US men and women at every age group dominate Concacaf...apart from the numbers and resources, they have a system and mind set that has allowed them to be consistantly successful in the region and world stage, there must be something that we could learn from them. Furthermore, there are many trinis contributing to the US system of success.
Shabazz is the Head Coach and he cannot get into the US or has limited access to the US, why would he want to send his teams to the US where he cannot go? These are the things that killing us. People in charge who are very limited in many aspects of proper organization of the teams.
I remember talking to a Trini college coach here in the US and he was telling me how he offer his facilities to the Women's Tea and they never ever took up the offer. All they had to do was get there. So is a lot more than just resources.
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Prior to the 1990s, sport in China, as in some other countries, was completely government-funded. Some top athletes had quit at the height of their careers because they were uncertain about life post retirement. The situation began to change in 1994 when Chinese football became the first sport to take the professionalization road and in its wake similar reforms were carried out in basketball, volleyball, ping pong and weing. The process brought with it commercialization; sport associations became profit-making entities and a club system came into being; professional leagues formed, improving China's sports environment; and commercial management systems took shape. The professionalization of sports has encouraged the emergence of a sports management market and business-structured systems. Sports club operations now cover ticket sales, advertising, club transfers, commercial matches, television broadcasting and other commercial activities. Another aspect of the reform is that some Chinese athletes have joined foreign professional leagues. For instance, basketball star Yao Ming entered the NBA in the 2002 draft[1].
China led the gold medal count (51) at the last Olympic Games which were held in Beijing from 8 August to 24 August 2008.[2]
:-\ here is my answer
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Prior to the 1990s, sport in China, as in some other countries, was completely government-funded. Some top athletes had quit at the height of their careers because they were uncertain about life post retirement. The situation began to change in 1994 when Chinese football became the first sport to take the professionalization road and in its wake similar reforms were carried out in basketball, volleyball, ping pong and weing. The process brought with it commercialization; sport associations became profit-making entities and a club system came into being; professional leagues formed, improving China's sports environment; and commercial management systems took shape. The professionalization of sports has encouraged the emergence of a sports management market and business-structured systems. Sports club operations now cover ticket sales, advertising, club transfers, commercial matches, television broadcasting and other commercial activities. Another aspect of the reform is that some Chinese athletes have joined foreign professional leagues. For instance, basketball star Yao Ming entered the NBA in the 2002 draft[1].
China led the gold medal count (51) at the last Olympic Games which were held in Beijing from 8 August to 24 August 2008.[2]
:-\ here is my answer
Okay did not know we were dealing with sports in general. I would not have used China as an example. As they are very good at the Olypmics and we with our limited resources and population to draw from have had a great measure of success in that area. So your argument still does not hold true.
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(http://www.teezeria.com/includes/phpt/phpThumb.php?src=/images/designs/457img_16.png&w=390&bg=000000)
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Triples first to begin the US national youth teams are not going anywhere. We are here to stay until the rest of the CONCACAF countries have stepped up their games like Mexico, Canada and now Costa Rica after their recent showing in the U-20 Concacaf qualifiers. You seem to think you know what you are talking about so please remind me where the players on the recent U-20 teams from Mexico, Canada and Costa Rica are from. Let me save you some research. I already know that quite a bit of them are attending Universities here in the US. Also what would the other teams from Europe, Asia and South America be today if they took your approach of feeling that they could not defeat the mighty US womens team. The last time I checked some of these teams have since caught up and surpass some of our youth nationals team on the World stage. As for your GK comment, I hate to burst your bubble on your GK statistics. However, we have been implementing a program here in the US with our ODP and national team players where we have been developing field players into GK;s when we see the need to. So it may just be an idea for Marlon and his staff to think about. I will end by saying this. One of the things we share with our youth national team players all the time is to focus on the controllables.So the day Trini does that the women's teams will be fine. There is still player development, preparation and planning and putting the right things in place to make it happen. When your pool is not as great as some of the other pools in the world. You need to make sure you are focusing on the things you have control over.
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Oh and before i forget we do benefit from these CONCACAF events. I am not at liberty to say though
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U.S.A. beat C. Rica 10 nil.
finish first round with a goal difference of 32 to 0 :o
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That's right keep telling me I am wrong while the scores continue to come in 32 goals for 0 goals against.
Lets blame every Caribbean coach, every Caribbean girl who plays soccer, every Caribbean style of play. I am wrong you folks are all correct we just need to focus on the things that we can control and one day one of the islands will score a single goal on the USA and we will all rejoice at how we have come a long way.
I apologize for being so negative and focusing on other things, that you folks disagree with. I will try to think more like you NY and so I will find some sort of solice in the 32 goal differential OH WAIT, I know, I can placate myself with the fact that it could have been 40 goals to nil.
It is good that we continue to offer our young ladies up as feed for the USA. It will built strnght it is nothing like having a young lady lose a game 9-0 and have the other team console her after the game think of the photo ops and character this young lady has just experienced,. and a troucing of the costa rica team will also teach those uyoung ladies a lesson in humility it was silly of me not to realize how important it was to focus on the THINGS WE CAN CONTROL. i am now upset that Jamaica has chosen to not continue the womens soccewr program because of a few losses and no hope of ever competing after all it just means they have given up, they should do what you all suggest FOCUS ON THOSE THINGS THEY CAN CONTROL. AS LONG AS WE ARE ON THE SUBJECT
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lets look at the things we can control. ???????????? oh i am sorry I was just trying to think of some things, but the funny thing about power is that it sometimes allows you to let those with less power believe they have control or some power. We believe we can have control over our coaches and who we choose to allow to coach our young people, well if that is the case when is the last time any coach was picked by a democratic process, we believe we can control the style of play, well why is shabazz in an interview trying to say as nicely as possible that he does not believe in pellurads style of non-possession play. Thats right keep telling every one to focus on t
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the things they can control as if they have control. keep selling that kool-aid to the masses. please save some for me because one more 9-0 thrashing of an island team just might put me over the top
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Prior to the 1990s, sport in China, as in some other countries, was completely government-funded. Some top athletes had quit at the height of their careers because they were uncertain about life post retirement. The situation began to change in 1994 when Chinese football became the first sport to take the professionalization road and in its wake similar reforms were carried out in basketball, volleyball, ping pong and weing. The process brought with it commercialization; sport associations became profit-making entities and a club system came into being; professional leagues formed, improving China's sports environment; and commercial management systems took shape. The professionalization of sports has encouraged the emergence of a sports management market and business-structured systems. Sports club operations now cover ticket sales, advertising, club transfers, commercial matches, television broadcasting and other commercial activities. Another aspect of the reform is that some Chinese athletes have joined foreign professional leagues. For instance, basketball star Yao Ming entered the NBA in the 2002 draft[1].
China led the gold medal count (51) at the last Olympic Games which were held in Beijing from 8 August to 24 August 2008.[2]
:-\ here is my answer
How do you explain jamaica's success in Track & Field?
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NY I see your whole response as nothing more than a rich man living in his mansion telling the poor servant that money can not bring happiness. That's right continue to tell the small under funded island women's soccer programs to keep playing hard to keep their heads up, and that one day they will compete at the same level as the big powerful US. For you sir to even suggest that equality in women's soccer between the USA and it's island competitor's can be simply achieved by a change of attitude. Is insulting at best disingenuous. Poor underfunded women's programs have no control. I cannot believe anyone can come on this site and blame every island team every island coach and every island player for the disparity between themselves and the US and that by simply focusing on things they (falsely believe) they can control that it will get better. I am through with this conversation I am belong enraged at this time. 32-0, SIR 32-0 is all I have to say to any argument you may raise now or in the future
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Palos are you serious Track and Field is an individual sport requiring NO SUBSTANTIAL FUNDING, it requires a track found at almost every school or public park. and for the most part looks at the individual. SOCCER requires a TEAM substantial funding. And your idea of sucess is a few individual male runners achieving some level of success, but according to this site
http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/tfn/records/records.jsp?listId=1 J
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Jamaica has very little long lasting success so lets not compare apples to oranges. Track and field is for the most part an individual sport. I could be the best goalie in the world but without good fullbacks you will never know that, but if i am the fastest man at the 440 I can choose to just run individual events and achieve success
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That's right keep telling me I am wrong while the scores continue to come in 32 goals for 0 goals against.
Lets blame every Caribbean coach, every Caribbean girl who plays soccer, every Caribbean style of play. I am wrong you folks are all correct we just need to focus on the things that we can control and one day one of the islands will score a single goal on the USA and we will all rejoice at how we have come a long way.
I apologize for being so negative and focusing on other things, that you folks disagree with. I will try to think more like you NY and so I will find some sort of solice in the 32 goal differential OH WAIT, I know, I can placate myself with the fact that it could have been 40 goals to nil.
It is good that we continue to offer our young ladies up as feed for the USA. It will built strnght it is nothing like having a young lady lose a game 9-0 and have the other team console her after the game think of the photo ops and character this young lady has just experienced,. and a troucing of the costa rica team will also teach those uyoung ladies a lesson in humility it was silly of me not to realize how important it was to focus on the THINGS WE CAN CONTROL. i am now upset that Jamaica has chosen to not continue the womens soccewr program because of a few losses and no hope of ever competing after all it just means they have given up, they should do what you all suggest FOCUS ON THOSE THINGS THEY CAN CONTROL. AS LONG AS WE ARE ON THE SUBJECT
Boss i hear where you trying to come from but I too have to disagree with your sentiments. here's why.
Long ago the US men's national team was struggling to qualify out of concacaf. I'm saying long ago but its actually been before the 1990 world cup. since that time the US realised that ok we have concacaf pretty much handled, but outside of concacaf we are just food for other teams. The US program decided to begin looking at ways they can beat the Brazil's and the Argentina's and the England's of world football. mind you they are competing against countries that are smaller in size and population and resources as compared to them, but they were determined to be the best..to beat the best. Over the last few years, as we saw in the Confedrations Cup, they have narrowed the gap significantly and every world cup they become even more competitive...because they have implemented a plan to narrow that gap.
now im going to give you a more personal example. i coach with a relatively small academy program here in Georgia, as compared to the other larger more expensive academies around and we are as competitive or probably better than the more expensive programs out there. why? we have a structure in place within our training programs to ensure that what we give our players tools and skill sets and knowledge that the other so called bigger programs arent implementing and in a nut shell, they cannot teach what we teach. its at the level now where these bigger programs aviod playing us at all cost because it looks bad for their reputation to lose to a "lower" program on paper. our kids have the belief that nobody is better than them and no matter who we play, they know they have the tools to beat anybody. we focus on kids that come from impoverish environments and neighborhoods and 8 out of 10 of these parents cant afford to pay the required fees to have their child play at any academy program. however, we have a structure in place to assist these players and their parents, so that they are exposed to a lifestyle they may not have been exposed to due to their circumstances. These kids now have an opportunity to attend a college or even try and go pro, an opportunity they never had before. Now that they are in our program, and they are part of the structure we have in place, aint nobody going to tell them the not good enough.
Now take the two examples above and apply it to the womens national team. We need to implement programs to be able to prepare our teams for this level of competition. IMO, our biggest hurdle is a societal one. The average female who playing ball in trinidad and who is getting good quality coaching is a drop in the pond as compared to their female counterparts in america. and that has nothing to do with how big america is and how small trinidad is. It's getting a bit better, but we have never guided our females to soccer. Our society has not encouraged females to see the benefits of playing soccer and hence our numbers are small. also, we do not have the quality programs in place for any size pool to succeed. we dont have it for the mens program...far less for the womens. take america for example, you actually have the label of "soccer moms", where parents make huge sacrifices to ensure their child participates in quality soccer programs. How many trinis you know making that kinda sacrifice for their kids? thats where the change has to occur, along with the powers that be implement the required quality programs so our teams, from U15 to senior mens and womens teams are more competitve in Concacaf...instead of asking America to go somewhere else to play! :beermug:
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fordy thank you for thinking my rants were worthy of you taking time to respond. I looked at your example but the problem I am having with them, is that Your example is of a financially superior (USA) attempting to achieve equality with a lessor country ie. Brazil (financially) such equality is no statement of achievement but rather a statement of the status quo returning to normal. In response to your Georgia example I applaud the effort but I would argue that the comparison also does not fit the dynamic found here. The disparity between the two academies can not compare to the fact that the entire population of TT is 1.2 million people and the number of children playing soccer in the USA is 15 million. The GNP of the almost any sing state in the USA exceeds our entire country in TT. The disparity you mentioned seems to not compare. I appreciate you weighing in and I will not dismiss your position as easily as others wish to dismiss mine. But these continued stories of how David slew Goliath and the little guy sometimes win stories is like playing the lottery we continue to hear about the one individual who wins and this causes the rest of us to spend their money what they fail to tell you of the many millions of people who never win. So while you may come on this site to tell me of the one (1) success story of where the little guy wins Fordy there are a thousand more stories where the little guy lost but they will now tell us about that other wise the masses would have no hope and rise up. Anyway good luck with your endeavors oh by the way EVERY ISLAND TEAM, EVERY ISLAND PLAYER AND EVERY ISLAND COACH failed to score a single goal against the US, but you probley all ready knew that.
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I cant believe is under 17 girls football alyuh panty gettin tie up so for.
Because girls 17 and under winning a football game a man want to have the entire country play in another confederation.
::)
Breds football esp girls football is not important to us.
You dominate in that age group and in womens football as a whole.....good for you.
Remember you need to beat small teams like us to reinforce how good YOU are....so we serve a purpose.
But have no fear, someday we may be able to tie or beat you and it will be that much more special for us.
N.B. Triplethreat33 try hitting the Enter key on your computer after a few sentences, it will make your rant a bit easier to read. Thanks.
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fordy thank you for thinking my rants were worthy of you taking time to respond. I looked at your example but the problem I am having with them, is that Your example is of a financially superior (USA) attempting to achieve equality with a lessor country ie. Brazil (financially) such equality is no statement of achievement but rather a statement of the status quo returning to normal. In response to your Georgia example I applaud the effort but I would argue that the comparison also does not fit the dynamic found here. The disparity between the two academies can not compare to the fact that the entire population of TT is 1.2 million people and the number of children playing soccer in the USA is 15 million. The GNP of the almost any sing state in the USA exceeds our entire country in TT. The disparity you mentioned seems to not compare. I appreciate you weighing in and I will not dismiss your position as easily as others wish to dismiss mine. But these continued stories of how David slew Goliath and the little guy sometimes win stories is like playing the lottery we continue to hear about the one individual who wins and this causes the rest of us to spend their money what they fail to tell you of the many millions of people who never win. So while you may come on this site to tell me of the one (1) success story of where the little guy wins Fordy there are a thousand more stories where the little guy lost but they will now tell us about that other wise the masses would have no hope and rise up. Anyway good luck with your endeavors oh by the way EVERY ISLAND TEAM, EVERY ISLAND PLAYER AND EVERY ISLAND COACH failed to score a single goal against the US, but you probley all ready knew that.
Well you can compare the academy example i gave. lets talk numbers. i coach a U11 team. one U11 team. the average larger academy has 4-5 U11 teams, ranked from A-E in terms of player skill level. on anyone of those teams they have an average of 15-17 players one one team. when we go to play these teams at first they would be disrespectful and send their D team. after a while, when they realised our potential, they send the best of the best for us. we beat them too. Also, on any game day i'm operating without subs. up to 2 weeks ago, we played against one of these teams and i had only 8 players (we play 8v8 at this level) whereas the other team had 17 players. the next coach call for a sub, one of his players says who, the coach replies everybody. in essence we play against two teams in one game...and still prevailed. im saying this all to say that you talking about the difference in numbers and resources between us and america...and it is a factor dont get me wrong....but with the right things in place we can overcome that very shortcoming and be competitive against their teams. Your defeatous mentality is whats keeping our progression from achieving great things in football. i mean you come up here and you ask any Quality American coach and they will tell you...the caribbean and central American has probably some of the brightest talents in the world....but the coaching and organization behind the talent is substandard at best.
The example with Brazil is also one not to dismiss. you trying to justify your point with numbers and available resources. Brazil aint no rich country and they cant even compare with america in terms of population. however, america cant beat them no matter wat. they have narrowed the gap over the years but still...brazil will beat them anyday. That's because Brazil has the organizational structure and coaching in place to beat the US teams on all levels.
bottomline when the game starts its eleven vs eleven. if your eleven is better prepared than mine you will always win, regardless of how much of a pool and money you spend to get to your eleven! :beermug:
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I cant believe is under 17 girls football alyuh panty gettin tie up so for.
Because girls 17 and under winning a football game a man want to have the entire country play in another confederation.
Breds football esp girls football is not important to us.
You dominate in that age group and in women's football as a whole.....good for you.
Fords this was touches quote this is another reason why we will never beat NEVER beat the US our own men dismiss the sisters, daughter, girlfriends as less important. The culture here is embarrassing when it comes to women's soccer. and oh by the way touches our Men's team is still looking for bragging points from an okay finish that was played by men who are now old and still are trying to play because we can not replace the talent even at the men's level what other country do you think a 40 year old man would have Even an idea of still trying to play. Don't ignore the women's program because of our men's program it leaves more than a little to be desired. PS I never said the whole country should leave Concacaf, I actually suggest that the USA leaves Concacaf. And I will not change my position. No island contry will ever see a world cup unless they host it, come on here and call me wrong or negative but as we speak today history is on my side and your hope is in a future where men see our women's program exactly like the previous poster.
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I cant believe is under 17 girls football alyuh panty gettin tie up so for.
Because girls 17 and under winning a football game a man want to have the entire country play in another confederation.
::)
Breds football esp girls football is not important to us.
You dominate in that age group and in womens football as a whole.....good for you.
Remember you need to beat small teams like us to reinforce how good YOU are....so we serve a purpose.
But have no fear, someday we may be able to tie or beat you and it will be that much more special for us.
N.B. Triplethreat33 try hitting the Enter key on your computer after a few sentences, it will make your rant a bit easier to read. Thanks.
;D hey touches here is your mens team that you care about
2010 World Cup qualification: Disappointment
Main article: 2010 FIFA World Cup qualification (CONCACAF)
Main article: 2010 FIFA World Cup qualification - CONCACAF Fourth Round
Team v • d • e Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts
United States 10 6 2 2 19 13 +6 20
Mexico 10 6 1 3 18 12 +6 19
Honduras 10 5 1 4 17 11 +6 16
Costa Rica 10 5 1 4 15 15 0 16
El Salvador 10 2 2 6 9 15 −6 8
Trinidad and Tobago 10 1 3 6 10 22 −12 6
Costa Rica – 1–0 2–0 0–3 4–0 3–1
El Salvador 1–0 – 0–1 2–1 2–2 2–2
Honduras 4–0 1–0 – 3–1 4–1 2–3
Mexico 2 –0 4–1 1–0 – 2–1 2–1
Trinidad and Tobago 2–3 1–0 1–1 2–2 – 0–1
United States 2–2 2–1 2–1 2–0 3–0 –
The United States, Mexico and Honduras qualified for the 2010 FIFA World Cup.
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So Triple according to you resources (mainly man power and money) is our path to success?
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Here is my problem Elan Touches is not a lone horse he has voiced the TT attitude of most TT men. We devalue our women and the hopes that this culture of seeing our women as athletes and not sexual objects is not one that will be easily overcome if at all. Touches and men like him will never get up on a Saturday Morning after a long week of work and take his daughter to soccer practice. Touches and men like him will never take his paycheck and buy his daughter the latest adidias football shoes. It is not in him. I do believe that money that will allow our women to train in the USA for a few months out ofthe year would be beneficial. I do believe that a larger pool of players would give us an opportunity to find that young lady who will standup against men like touches and say I AM AN ATHLETE, I DO MATTER, AND HOPEFULLY THAT YOUNG LADIES FATHER WILL SEE HER AS AN ATHLETE, AND NOT A POTENTIAL WEDDING EXPENSE.
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If yuh take the U.S. out of CONCACAF, you will weaken the federation- not good for the reason.
The U.S. team showed respect by playing the Haitians like any other opponent. At the senior level, you might see teams take their foot off the brakes a bit when the score runs up because with maturity comes a different psychology when it comes to beating an opponent. In addition to preservation of energy, the whole idea of diplomacy and reluctance to humiliate an opponent starts to play a part...but remember these girls are 15 and 16 years old- they're not there yet...that chip in their zealous competitive brains hasn't fully developed yet...so it was not a matter of them being disrespectful. They showed respect the way they know how...i.e. treat them as equals, and play hard....nothing wrong with that. As they mature they will learn other ways to beat their opponents respectfully.
I watched a Brazil v Mexico Under 13 game one time (yeah don't know why it was broadcasted on TV...And I don't know why I bothered to watch it ;D)...Brazil was leading 7-2, and playing like it was the first whistle. One commentator remarked that from a very young age you could see a high level of competitiveness in the young Brazilians...the other announcer replied something to the effect of "good luck trying to tell a 12 yr old footballer to hold back when he knows he can score a hattrick"....
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Taking the U.S. out of concacaf makes no sense. Brazil also destroyed the teams in S. America qualifying. So do you take them out too? And where would these teams go? Or maybe have two WC one for the haves and one for the have nots.
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this is the u-17 women's site at no time was I speaking of the men's division It is okay to disagree with my position but first make sure you understand my position. The women's soccer programs in the Caribbean islands will NEVER compeat on an equal basis with the US I repeat the WOMENS soccer programs of the Carribeans will NEVER compete an an equal field with the US.
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oh I forgot to mentioned 32-0 goal differential
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lol this debate nice alluh dont stop pl :devil:
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Here is my problem Elan Touches is not a lone horse he has voiced the TT attitude of most TT men. We devalue our women and the hopes that this culture of seeing our women as athletes and not sexual objects is not one that will be easily overcome if at all. Touches and men like him will never get up on a Saturday Morning after a long week of work and take his daughter to soccer practice. Touches and men like him will never take his paycheck and buy his daughter the latest adidias football shoes. It is not in him. I do believe that money that will allow our women to train in the USA for a few months out ofthe year would be beneficial. I do believe that a larger pool of players would give us an opportunity to find that young lady who will standup against men like touches and say I AM AN ATHLETE, I DO MATTER, AND HOPEFULLY THAT YOUNG LADIES FATHER WILL SEE HER AS AN ATHLETE, AND NOT A POTENTIAL WEDDING EXPENSE.
Well that is Touches, you cannot place that tag on all T&T men ( I still eh think Touches serious).
I have a vested interest in T&T women soccer. Why? My daughter is coming of age and is a very good footballer. She has the potential to play for a National team IF she continue at the rate she is developing. Right now we are holding her back from doing ODP up here although she has practiced with a State ODP team and was technically and tactically more advanced that the player - who are older than her (she plays a year up) - on the state team.
Now I will love her to play for the R,W & Black however, with coaches likeCharles and Shabazz at the helm I don't think she will be playing. I know these guys MO.
Also the mentality that we small and have no money so we cannot beat or compete with the bigger countries don't sit well with me. I think we use that as excuses to not invest and put in place proper structures which will enable the women's program to develop. We have had the same coaches getting no results for over 2 decades now and we are good with that. See we use people who think like what Touches type as sheild from the greater issues. The implimentation of a proper structure with professional staffing who will be able to develop the prgoram into one that will be able to give a good showing on a local, regional and international stage.
I know Touches on here and he's just been mischeivous, he is a major supporter of ALL T&T football. The problems lies not in the lack of resources or player pool, but the lack of action by the Federation and Stakeholders (mainly players and parents) in investing a greater effort and sense of belief in what we have. The grass will always be greener, but we need to feed where we are tied and seek to adapt and overcome, enabling us to be successful in this area as we have done in the pass and continue to do in other areas of our country.
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Elan you have reinforced my argument, from your statment it appears you say "up here" I assume you mean the US so your daughter is acquiring skills and a foundation in the same system that hopefully she will compete and be sucessful against. That my friend is my point. Our girls would benefit from training in this system.
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Elan you have reinforced my argument, from your statment it appears you say "up here" I assume you mean the US so your daughter is acquiring skills and a foundation in the same system that hopefully she will compete and be sucessful against. That my friend is my point. Our girls would benefit from training in this system.
The location for us is null and void because if we were home it would be the same. Our aims and objectives would remain the same. We are not the people to allow environment (things we cannot control) to determine our outcome. We use what we have to get where we want to go.
We don't use the system up here with our daughter as we believe in a different development style. What we take from the system is the mentality. In terms of technique and tactics we have taken perspective from the Japanese, Brazilians and teh Americans. Calm, stylish and determined type player. Our players even when they come to college on full schol still cannot strike the ball properly, but coaches recognize this and work on it.
We need to do things differently with the females than we do with the males. That hoping for a good player. Not one person in T&T can tell the formula used to develop Latapy and Dwight Yorke, not one. You will hear that Latapy use to skip school and go strike ball with both feet etc. Noone can say we went from this step to this step, etc.
The females need to be produced, to be given a structured environment to assist them in putting out there best, to have a nucleus of professional advising and working with them. We have a very long way to go, but we can get there IF we actually take things seriously.
The US is not that difficult to beat, on the pitch. It's what goes on off the pitch with the US that defeats everyone. Oversimplifying here, with both men's and women's teams from the US you just isolate each of their players and play 1v1. The Brazilian women's team did it to them and tear them apart. You can only do this if yo take care of the off the field things. With us, our coaches still believe that coaching starts when the players take the pitch for practice or games.
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Elan you have reinforced my argument, from your statment it appears you say "up here" I assume you mean the US so your daughter is acquiring skills and a foundation in the same system that hopefully she will compete and be sucessful against. That my friend is my point. Our girls would benefit from training in this system.
The location for us is null and void because if we were home it would be the same. Our aims and objectives would remain the same. We are not the people to allow environment (things we cannot control) to determine our outcome. We use what we have to get where we want to go.
We don't use the system up here with our daughter as we believe in a different development style. What we take from the system is the mentality. In terms of technique and tactics we have taken perspective from the Japanese, Brazilians and teh Americans. Calm, stylish and determined type player. Our players even when they come to college on full schol still cannot strike the ball properly, but coaches recognize this and work on it.
We need to do things differently with the females than we do with the males. That hoping for a good player. Not one person in T&T can tell the formula used to develop Latapy and Dwight Yorke, not one. You will hear that Latapy use to skip school and go strike ball with both feet etc. Noone can say we went from this step to this step, etc.
The females need to be produced, to be given a structured environment to assist them in putting out there best, to have a nucleus of professional advising and working with them. We have a very long way to go, but we can get there IF we actually take things seriously.
The US is not that difficult to beat, on the pitch. It's what goes on off the pitch with the US that defeats everyone. Oversimplifying here, with both men's and women's teams from the US you just isolate each of their players and play 1v1. The Brazilian women's team did it to them and tear them apart. You can only do this if yo take care of the off the field things. With us, our coaches still believe that coaching starts when the players take the pitch for practice or games.
great post elan. u saying exactly what ive been trying to say all along. all this talk about player pool and resources...eleven vs eleven once prepared u will prevail...no matter how small the place you come from.
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32 goals differential between the USA and the Caribbean teams.
Gentleman I am amazed how you posters ignore simple math, and then make arguments that sound good, but ignore the cold hard facts. Lets start with this silly statment of there is only 11 players on the field. That Statment ignores the fact that the 11 the US puts on the field was cull down from about 50000 girls. the 11 that some island teams put on the field is sometimes not a result of culling players being looking to even find players ie the U-15 tryingto find a goalie. If you can not see the failure in your 11 v. 11 hypothesis I would suggest a remedial math class. but we should all know enough math to tell the difference between the number 32 and the number 0. The next fault in your argument about the 11 v. 11 is that in the average game there is seldom more than 3 minutes in which a team can not make a substitution, so the bench in soccer is as important as the bench in basketball. The USA bench is culled from these same approx 50000 girls, Mosat island teams show a considerable drop off after they go to the bench. 32 goals for 0 against
The next is your preparation argument. The average US National team member has been playing since age 5 some as young as age 4 if they were to turn five during the upcoming season. They will have many of them moved into a premier league by age 11 depending on what part of the country they live in, they will play about 10 games a year in their league play, another 10 games when they go indoors another 10 to 12 games in school ball. if they advance to ODP this will add an additional 6 to 8 games a year. approx 10 scrimmages a year. Most will practice 2 to 3 times a week. This is just the bewginning of their preparation. You make preparation sound like it occurs during the time period a few months before a world cup. The US player has been preparing for this moment since she was 4 years old. The average island girls had not even started to play any type of organized soccer until age 12 for most. Some of the girls on an National Teams do not have decent football shoes to put on. Some showed up for tryouts without shin guards they did not own any. Preparation gentleman occures long before a player shows up for their first tryout for a national team. Any response that starts with the words "up here" is useless we are not up here, we are in TT. The are more girls u-17 teams getting ready to play in the upcoming Jefferson Cup tournament in virginia, than exist on every carribean island. So stop talking about "up here" as if it could so easily be duplicated "down here" Gentleman continue to ignore the power of resources in your responses. I will just continue to remind you the score was 32- 0 against every island team they faced. 32-0 32- 0 32- 0 32- 0 32- 0 32-0
oh I forgot to remind you " 15 million" that is the number of kids who play soccer in the US that my friend is a resource not to be ignored.
Until we take our island women to the US and allowed them to train in that system, play against that level of competition when ever possible. we will continue to lose to it. one thing before I go 32-0
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I am sorry that I posted the US goal differential because now we can't get triplethreat32-0 to stop talking about it. :devil:
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32 goals differential between the USA and the Caribbean teams.
Gentleman I am amazed how you posters ignore simple math, and then make arguments that sound good, but ignore the cold hard facts. Lets start with this silly statment of there is only 11 players on the field. That Statment ignores the fact that the 11 the US puts on the field was cull down from about 50000 girls. the 11 that some island teams put on the field is sometimes not a result of culling players being looking to even find players ie the U-15 tryingto find a goalie. If you can not see the failure in your 11 v. 11 hypothesis I would suggest a remedial math class. but we should all know enough math to tell the difference between the number 32 and the number 0. The next fault in your argument about the 11 v. 11 is that in the average game there is seldom more than 3 minutes in which a team can not make a substitution, so the bench in soccer is as important as the bench in basketball. The USA bench is culled from these same approx 50000 girls, Mosat island teams show a considerable drop off after they go to the bench. 32 goals for 0 against
The next is your preparation argument. The average US National team member has been playing since age 5 some as young as age 4 if they were to turn five during the upcoming season. They will have many of them moved into a premier league by age 11 depending on what part of the country they live in, they will play about 10 games a year in their league play, another 10 games when they go indoors another 10 to 12 games in school ball. if they advance to ODP this will add an additional 6 to 8 games a year. approx 10 scrimmages a year. Most will practice 2 to 3 times a week. This is just the bewginning of their preparation. You make preparation sound like it occurs during the time period a few months before a world cup. The US player has been preparing for this moment since she was 4 years old. The average island girls had not even started to play any type of organized soccer until age 12 for most. Some of the girls on an National Teams do not have decent football shoes to put on. Some showed up for tryouts without shin guards they did not own any. Preparation gentleman occures long before a player shows up for their first tryout for a national team. Any response that starts with the words "up here" is useless we are not up here, we are in TT. The are more girls u-17 teams getting ready to play in the upcoming Jefferson Cup tournament in virginia, than exist on every carribean island. So stop talking about "up here" as if it could so easily be duplicated "down here" Gentleman continue to ignore the power of resources in your responses. I will just continue to remind you the score was 32- 0 against every island team they faced. 32-0 32- 0 32- 0 32- 0 32- 0 32-0
oh I forgot to remind you " 15 million" that is the number of kids who play soccer in the US that my friend is a resource not to be ignored.
Until we take our island women to the US and allowed them to train in that system, play against that level of competition when ever possible. we will continue to lose to it. one thing before I go 32-0
listen nobody has said that the caribbean teams are prepared right now to compete on the level of the US. So your 32-0 argument is proving nothing at the moment. We all know what level the two teams are at and from what i have seen no one here has tried to dispute that. What most of us are all up in arms over is your negative comment about having the US pull out of concacaf and qualify through some other means. that's the problem with all that you have said. so continuoulsy pointing out the obvious while ignoring the idiot statement you made prior isnt making you look any more intelligent. Why dont you discuss your prior statement of the US leaving concacaf? that's the issue that has drawn your critics...including me. we all know the current state of affairs...those who know football that is!!
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It is not a negative comment it is one you disagree with, because you disagree with me Does not mean your position is NEGATIVE just different than mine. In a legal or political argument if you can define your opponents position as negative, you are half way to winning the battle. So first my position is not NEGATIVE it is just different than yours. Second I see the US continued placement in Concacaf nothing more than the island teams being donkeys with a carrot being dangled in front of them, they will plow the fields in hopes of reachingthat carrot that can never be reached. Concacaf has been an automatic bid to any tournament for the the US women's soccer program, they have NEVER NEVER NEVER face the threat or possibility of elimination, in fact they measure there success not by wins and losses but rather by goal differential. I did not need anyone to give me the 32-0 goal differential it is there on the FIFA site cant miss it. As for the reason for removing the USA IS THAT I BELIEVE THAT ONE OF THE KEYS TO BUILDING A SUCESSFUL PROGRAM IS NOT COMPEATING IN A QUALIFYING ROUND BUT ACTULLY GETTING TO THE WORLD CUP. TT STILL TALKS PROUDLY ABOUT OUR 2006 LIMITED SUCESS AND IT HELPED TT MENS SOCCER GREATLY IT PUT US ON WORLD STAGE. A women's island team that make it to the WC would likewise benefit in ways that will only help the program after all success breeds success, failure breeds failure. I believe that if the island girls know that they have a REAL chance of getting to the WC even if they lost the first round for a few years, they will at least be motivated in this success and it will breed even a greater effort by each country to go further the next time. The limited success that an island team may achieve at qualifiers never seems to carry any coat tails of success, but TTs one time appearance in men's soccer is still a source of great pride. That having been said the disparity between Island men's soccer and the US is not as great as the disparity between island women's soccer and the US, and the truth of the matter is our women are suffering because of our Macho ignorant ways. Jamaica men's soccer is not successful on any WORLD STAGE yet their women's program was cut not it's men's, yet what have they really done. So before you say this is an island problem and not a US problem, let me ask you would soccer at the WC women's level benefit from every participant having a REAL chance to at least to make into the WC ,I say Yes. I dream of the day when a little girl in Antiqua or TT runs across her back yard pretending to wear the colors of her country pretending to score the winning goal in a WC game this is not even a reality in her world under the present system. I believe that the presence of the US in CONCOCAF stiffens the dreams of too many women island soccer players, and that women's soccer as a whole would benefit from seeing a bunch of dark skinned ,short hair or long LOL beautiful black island women kicking a ball on the internation stage it would bring these women to the international community and bring these international community to these women. The idea that any island team will ever succeed against the US under the present system is not Realistic. I believe that success has a better chance if the girls know that a chance to compete on a world stage depends on their efforts against similar situated participants that change will foster a grass roots level of participation and support. I guess the best I can describe it is that if a fish is put in a small tank he Will stay small in a big tank he will grow large. US prevents the islands from ever seeing that large tank.
It is okay to disagree with me ,I will not allow you to classify my position as negative without a challenge.
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It is not a negative comment it is one you disagree with, because you disagree with me Does not mean your position is NEGATIVE just different than mine. In a legal or political argument if you can define your opponents position as negative, you are half way to winning the battle. So first my position is not NEGATIVE it is just different than yours. Second I see the US continued placement in Concacaf nothing more than the island teams being donkeys with a carrot being dangled in front of them, they will plow the fields in hopes of reachingthat carrot that can never be reached. Concacaf has been an automatic bid to any tournament for the the US women's soccer program, they have NEVER NEVER NEVER face the threat or possibility of elimination, in fact they measure there success not by wins and losses but rather by goal differential. I did not need anyone to give me the 32-0 goal differential it is there on the FIFA site cant miss it. As for the reason for removing the USA IS THAT I BELIEVE THAT ONE OF THE KEYS TO BUILDING A SUCESSFUL PROGRAM IS NOT COMPEATING IN A QUALIFYING ROUND BUT ACTULLY GETTING TO THE WORLD CUP. TT STILL TALKS PROUDLY ABOUT OUR 2006 LIMITED SUCESS AND IT HELPED TT MENS SOCCER GREATLY IT PUT US ON WORLD STAGE. A women's island team that make it to the WC would likewise benefit in ways that will only help the program after all success breeds success, failure breeds failure. I believe that if the island girls know that they have a REAL chance of getting to the WC even if they lost the first round for a few years, they will at least be motivated in this success and it will breed even a greater effort by each country to go further the next time. The limited success that an island team may achieve at qualifiers never seems to carry any coat tails of success, but TTs one time appearance in men's soccer is still a source of great pride. That having been said the disparity between Island men's soccer and the US is not as great as the disparity between island women's soccer and the US, and the truth of the matter is our women are suffering because of our Macho ignorant ways. Jamaica men's soccer is not successful on any WORLD STAGE yet their women's program was cut not it's men's, yet what have they really done. So before you say this is an island problem and not a US problem, let me ask you would soccer at the WC women's level benefit from every participant having a REAL chance to at least to make into the WC ,I say Yes. I dream of the day when a little girl in Antiqua or TT runs across her back yard pretending to wear the colors of her country pretending to score the winning goal in a WC game this is not even a reality in her world under the present system. I believe that the presence of the US in CONCOCAF stiffens the dreams of too many women island soccer players, and that women's soccer as a whole would benefit from seeing a bunch of dark skinned ,short hair or long LOL beautiful black island women kicking a ball on the internation stage it would bring these women to the international community and bring these international community to these women. The idea that any island team will ever succeed against the US under the present system is not Realistic. I believe that success has a better chance if the girls know that a chance to compete on a world stage depends on their efforts against similar situated participants that change will foster a grass roots level of participation and support. I guess the best I can describe it is that if a fish is put in a small tank he Will stay small in a big tank he will grow large. US prevents the islands from ever seeing that large tank.
It is okay to disagree with me ,I will not allow you to classify my position as negative without a challenge.
What was negative about your comment is saying that since we cant beat the US then remove them from competition. That's negative thinking IMO. If you cant beat them put things in place so you better prepared to beat them the next tournament.
If you read my previous post you would see that I mentioned one of the biggest obstacles we face in the caribbean is our society. Culturally we have never guided our females into soccer. The trend has slightly changed since our world cup participation but no where close to where it needs to be for us to be competitive. On top of that, even if the societal trend changes, we do not have the infrustructure in place to give our ladies quality coaching and development. My argument is instead of asking the US to leave, how about putting things in place in the region to help them get over that hurdle. Any young female reading your post could never have the self belief to win anything against the likes of the US because, as you put it, they bigger and better than we. That's negative!
You mention that success brings success. In some regard I agree with you. However, for success to bring success you have to build on the previous success by identifying the previous failures. Prime example our men's team. Make it in 2006 and failed to build on that successful tidal wave, failed to fix the failuers we endured during that campaign, and was horrible during our last campaign. So it would not make much sense to have the womens team qualify for a world cup every four years and lose every game. That's not progression..that status quo! It seems you are quite passionate about the development of the womens game and i applaud u for that, but dont cripple our sisters by saying take the big team out of our region. Help yuh sistrens by changing the cultural thinking of our people and make plans to put the proper programs in place to make them succeed against the likes of the US.
Your idea of having our girls travel to the US for a training regime is not a bad one, especially since we dont have anything that can come close to it at home. But eventually if we are going to compete with them, we need to have our own and develop it to their level. Thats the only way we will prevail! Not to run from them...but confront them...once we are fully prepared however! :beermug:
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To be honest, the US and Mex.? would be arse-holes to leave CONCACAF just to get "better" competition. Why would they want to do that. If Oceania had an automatic spot to the WC, you think Aussie would have gone to the Asia group. Look, we in the Caribbean lack two basic things, resources and administrators who needs to put the interests of the game and the players before their own. At this juncture everything else is mute.
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That's right keep telling me I am wrong while the scores continue to come in 32 goals for 0 goals against.
Lets blame every Caribbean coach, every Caribbean girl who plays soccer, every Caribbean style of play. I am wrong you folks are all correct we just need to focus on the things that we can control and one day one of the islands will score a single goal on the USA and we will all rejoice at how we have come a long way.
I apologize for being so negative and focusing on other things, that you folks disagree with. I will try to think more like you NY and so I will find some sort of solice in the 32 goal differential OH WAIT, I know, I can placate myself with the fact that it could have been 40 goals to nil.
It is good that we continue to offer our young ladies up as feed for the USA. It will built strnght it is nothing like having a young lady lose a game 9-0 and have the other team console her after the game think of the photo ops and character this young lady has just experienced,. and a troucing of the costa rica team will also teach those uyoung ladies a lesson in humility it was silly of me not to realize how important it was to focus on the THINGS WE CAN CONTROL. i am now upset that Jamaica has chosen to not continue the womens soccewr program because of a few losses and no hope of ever competing after all it just means they have given up, they should do what you all suggest FOCUS ON THOSE THINGS THEY CAN CONTROL. AS LONG AS WE ARE ON THE SUBJECT
Well i know i am youngster compared to most, but When we were beaten by any score as close to those in the games played by the U.S; yes it did bring you down but I had a great coach who said any game that you can learn something from is a good game. We learned alot, made us much hungrier which is what these girls need and i hope these games wake them up to reality that if you want get with the pitbull mentality and own it. Watching the few games i was able to watch, they gave them too much space, don't know why CI played such a high defense with the speed of the U.S, zero pressure on some of the players, i don't know if they even have faith in their team mates to cover their positions for them. Its just making the group with the U.S look like a shoe in. The only thing that can be done is how to make a negative a positive, benefit and improve on the mistakes individually and collectively because this is the part where mental fortitude is probably needed the most.
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So if the U.S is to leave their confederation like the Aussies did, would you suggest tehy play in Conmebol then? And also what are you thoughts on the abilities of the Mexican and Canadian teams? Would you or would not suggest that they leave Concacaf also and why?
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this is the u-17 women's site at no time was I speaking of the men's division It is okay to disagree with my position but first make sure you understand my position. The women's soccer programs in the Caribbean islands will NEVER compeat on an equal basis with the US I repeat the WOMENS soccer programs of the Carribeans will NEVER compete an an equal field with the US.
What about the women's program in Honduras, Panama, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua and Costa Rica because they are Concacaf also and the us did rip CR 10-0 so please don't leave the Central Americans out of the Analysis also.
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32 goals differential between the USA and the Caribbean teams.
Gentleman I am amazed how you posters ignore simple math, and then make arguments that sound good, but ignore the cold hard facts. Lets start with this silly statment of there is only 11 players on the field. That Statment ignores the fact that the 11 the US puts on the field was cull down from about 50000 girls. the 11 that some island teams put on the field is sometimes not a result of culling players being looking to even find players ie the U-15 tryingto find a goalie. If you can not see the failure in your 11 v. 11 hypothesis I would suggest a remedial math class. but we should all know enough math to tell the difference between the number 32 and the number 0. The next fault in your argument about the 11 v. 11 is that in the average game there is seldom more than 3 minutes in which a team can not make a substitution, so the bench in soccer is as important as the bench in basketball. The USA bench is culled from these same approx 50000 girls, Mosat island teams show a considerable drop off after they go to the bench. 32 goals for 0 against
The next is your preparation argument. The average US National team member has been playing since age 5 some as young as age 4 if they were to turn five during the upcoming season. They will have many of them moved into a premier league by age 11 depending on what part of the country they live in, they will play about 10 games a year in their league play, another 10 games when they go indoors another 10 to 12 games in school ball. if they advance to ODP this will add an additional 6 to 8 games a year. approx 10 scrimmages a year. Most will practice 2 to 3 times a week. This is just the bewginning of their preparation. You make preparation sound like it occurs during the time period a few months before a world cup. The US player has been preparing for this moment since she was 4 years old. The average island girls had not even started to play any type of organized soccer until age 12 for most. Some of the girls on an National Teams do not have decent football shoes to put on. Some showed up for tryouts without shin guards they did not own any. Preparation gentleman occures long before a player shows up for their first tryout for a national team. Any response that starts with the words "up here" is useless we are not up here, we are in TT. The are more girls u-17 teams getting ready to play in the upcoming Jefferson Cup tournament in virginia, than exist on every carribean island. So stop talking about "up here" as if it could so easily be duplicated "down here" Gentleman continue to ignore the power of resources in your responses. I will just continue to remind you the score was 32- 0 against every island team they faced. 32-0 32- 0 32- 0 32- 0 32- 0 32-0
oh I forgot to remind you " 15 million" that is the number of kids who play soccer in the US that my friend is a resource not to be ignored.
Until we take our island women to the US and allowed them to train in that system, play against that level of competition when ever possible. we will continue to lose to it. one thing before I go 32-0
at this point i probably feel like a thistle, but if its the case with demolishing the U.S why not send them to brazil to train with thier teams since the competition and tactical awareness would have been pounded into them by Dunga's selection of coaches. BTw Dunga will be free of the Seleaccio after this WC maybe we can get him.......
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A women's island team that make it to the WC would likewise benefit in ways that will only help the program after all success breeds success, failure breeds failure.
Does this mean a team of women from an island, or a team from an island of nothing but women?
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Triples when you have a minute take a peek at the recent CONCACAF U-20 Qualifiers. These are just some of the things that can happen when you FOCUS ON THE THINGS YOU HAVE CONTROL OVER. USA, MEXICO AND COSTA RICA qualified for the U-2O World cup. Canada was knocked out after being one of the qualifiers for the previous U-20 World Cup. Thank God these teams didn't take your defeatest approach that they could not compete against or beat the US. Our organization and athleticism was the difference at this event. Mexico and Costa were formidable opponents. Some of these games were so close and it was clear that they were better than us in many areas of the game even though we won the event.
Don't try and flip the switch on what I was referring to as well trying to make it look as though I was blaming every Carribean coach and player. When I first referred to the statement "focus on the things you have control over" I was actually giving props to the other CONCACAF countries like Costa Rica, Mexico and Canada. These are countries that have been trying to maximize the most of what they have and as a result they have been experiencing some success not just in CONCACAF but on the world stage. Some of these young soccer nations just need to make sure that they are doing the very best job with what they have available to them.
Canada was the reigning CONCACAF champions after defeating the US up until this year. There was a time when the US youth teams would blow out Canada and Mexico on CONSISTENT BASIS. They have since closed the gap. With money and great numbers to draw from you still need quality coaches to work with them and you still need to put a plan in place. You keep making the point about numbers and money being that thing that makes the US youth national teams so powerful. Even though they are definitely factors you just don't know the planning, organization and preparation that goes into the product we put on the field.
Just to get players ready to play in Trini in 2008 for the U17 World Cup qualifiers we took potential players for the national team to various tours in the Caribbean three years prior to get them acclimatized. Just to put on a 7 day summer camp for some of our elite players in July. The planning and preparation is done 8 months in advance. You should know that players are produced in cycles. Each country over time will have their moments as they continue to develop their young players. With money and great numbers to draw from you still need quality coaches to work with them and you still need to put a plan in place. You need to set realistic goals etc.
One of our ODP teams is in Russia right now. Its a tournament we have never won or made it to the finals and yet we send a team there each time. We get so much out of the event which we then take and use to make our present and future players better and ready for the full national team. Because brother at the end of the day all these youth teams are there to help produce payers for their respective senior national teams.
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Wow Andre Desantos great insight as a young warrior. The insight of the game you speak of when we played CI is spot on. As I sat and watched the game I too wondered why they were playing with such a high restraining line with no pressure on the ball. On the corner kicks I was also wondering why they sent 1 defender against 2 or sometimes they didn't get their quick enough. Meh boy triples try to down play my statement of focus on what you have control over. Even though it was not my intent at the time to show up the coaching I had seen to date. i am sure the 13 they got from us could have been prevented. I will make a case using your simple analysis. If I was coaching CI which I am not(so relax triples) I would have played with a low restraining line 15 yards from the 18 yard box. instead of pushing up as high as they did which made it easy for us to find seams to either play balls through or to initiate runs through to receive passes. At the same time they were not compact enough when they were defending. I would have made sure of that as well. Then to top it off I would have talked to them about their support around the ball to maintain possession. Because they were coughing up the ball quite easy which sustained our attacks.
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Triples when you have a minute take a peek at the recent CONCACAF U-20 Qualifiers. These are just some of the things that can happen when you FOCUS ON THE THINGS YOU HAVE CONTROL OVER. USA, MEXICO AND COSTA RICA qualified for the U-2O World cup. Canada was knocked out after being one of the qualifiers for the previous U-20 World Cup. Thank God these teams didn't take your defeatest approach that they could not compete against or beat the US. Our organization and athleticism was the difference at this event. Mexico and Costa were formidable opponents. Some of these games were so close and it was clear that they were better than us in many areas of the game even though we won the event.
Don't try and flip the switch on what I was referring to as well trying to make it look as though I was blaming every Carribean coach and player. When I first referred to the statement "focus on the things you have control over" I was actually giving props to the other CONCACAF countries like Costa Rica, Mexico and Canada. These are countries that have been trying to maximize the most of what they have and as a result they have been experiencing some success not just in CONCACAF but on the world stage. Some of these young soccer nations just need to make sure that they are doing the very best job with what they have available to them.
Canada was the reigning CONCACAF champions after defeating the US up until this year. There was a time when the US youth teams would blow out Canada and Mexico on CONSISTENT BASIS. They have since closed the gap. With money and great numbers to draw from you still need quality coaches to work with them and you still need to put a plan in place. You keep making the point about numbers and money being that thing that makes the US youth national teams so powerful. Even though they are definitely factors you just don't know the planning, organization and preparation that goes into the product we put on the field.
Just to get players ready to play in Trini in 2008 for the U17 World Cup qualifiers we took potential players for the national team to various tours in the Caribbean three years prior to get them acclimatized. Just to put on a 7 day summer camp for some of our elite players in July. The planning and preparation is done 8 months in advance. You should know that players are produced in cycles. Each country over time will have their moments as they continue to develop their young players. With money and great numbers to draw from you still need quality coaches to work with them and you still need to put a plan in place. You need to set realistic goals etc.
One of our ODP teams is in Russia right now. Its a tournament we have never won or made it to the finals and yet we send a team there each time. We get so much out of the event which we then take and use to make our present and future players better and ready for the full national team. Because brother at the end of the day all these youth teams are there to help produce payers for their respective senior national teams.
First you call my position a "defeatest" position so your attempis not to have a real conversation or even allow some one a differnt point of view it is only to say that you are right I am wrong and no one should have a differnt opinion than yours okay they you maintain your position I will maintain mine 32-0 no further discussion on this matter appears to be necessary because i am a defeatest and you are an expert on all thing soccer oh yea i forgot, 32-0
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First you call my position a "defeatest" position so your attempis not to have a real conversation or even allow some one a differnt point of view it is only to say that you are right I am wrong and no one should have a differnt opinion than yours okay they you maintain your position I will maintain mine 32-0 no further discussion on this matter appears to be necessary because i am a defeatest and you are an expert on all thing soccer oh yea i forgot, 32-0
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correct is right
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pssst triple threat where is your team now ? :rotfl:
Always keep your words soft and tender in case you have to eat them.
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pssst triple threat where is your team now ? :rotfl:
Always keep your words soft and tender in case you have to eat them.
has he posted since then?
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Gentleman if you think the USAs lost to another North American team somehow strengthens your argument than you have failed to understand my point. The fact that the US loss to another North American Large country has nothing to do with my argument. Not ONCE NOT ONCE did I ever mentioned CANADA as being harmed by USAS position in our conference i mentioned the islands go back and read my post
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Gentleman if you think the USAs lost to another North American team somehow strengthens your argument than you have failed to understand my point. The fact that the US loss to another North American Large country has nothing to do with my argument. Not ONCE NOT ONCE did I ever mentioned CANADA as being harmed by USAS position in our conference i mentioned the islands go back and read my post
He is baaaaccck :violin:
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Gentleman if you think the USAs lost to another North American team somehow strengthens your argument than you have failed to understand my point. The fact that the US loss to another North American Large country has nothing to do with my argument. Not ONCE NOT ONCE did I ever mentioned CANADA as being harmed by USAS position in our conference i mentioned the islands go back and read my post
It ceratinly does strengthen the argument. However,given that Canada is a large country with much resources and talent pool as is Mexico, then they may also have to leave Concacaf for any of the Island teams to have a chance. The point that is being made is that by any of these countries moving out of Concacaf, that does not corelate to the improved soccer in the islands...you will still have poor planning and preparations; small talent pool to draw from; poor coaching/ tactical and technical development etc. USA, CANADA AND MEXICO out of Concacaf will only improve the chances of qualification for the weaker teams. So now T&T could be the big dogs, because they does drop 12 and 17 goals on the smaller islands then talk about how they are ready to take on USA.
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i never mentioned Mexico I never mentioned Canada, if you want to re fut my argument, then you must refute what I said. You throw in Mexico and Canada to reinforce your argument, the problem is I NEVER I NEVER said Mexico and Canada, my argument is and will continue to be that
THE SMALL CARRIBEAN ISLANDS WILL NOT BENEFIT FROM BEING IN A CONFERENCE WITH THE USA. THAT IS MY ARGUMENT, NOT CANADA, NOT MEXICO, CARRIBEAN ISLANDS AND USA DO NOT BELONG IN SAME CONFERENCE.
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just so it is clear, the USA And Caribbean island teams do not belong in same conference
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just so it is clear, the USA And Caribbean island teams do not belong in same conference
What the f**k is a "conference" where football (or, I guess, "soccer", for you) is concerned? How is it determined what country belongs in which "conference"? Asshole, go f**k yourslef somewhere in a corner nuh! Typical f**kin' domb-ass american!! I really don't know why y'all entertaining this prick.
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:o
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i never mentioned Mexico I never mentioned Canada, if you want to re fut my argument, then you must refute what I said. You throw in Mexico and Canada to reinforce your argument, the problem is I NEVER I NEVER said Mexico and Canada, my argument is and will continue to be that
THE SMALL CARRIBEAN ISLANDS WILL NOT BENEFIT FROM BEING IN A CONFERENCE WITH THE USA. THAT IS MY ARGUMENT, NOT CANADA, NOT MEXICO, CARRIBEAN ISLANDS AND USA DO NOT BELONG IN SAME CONFERENCE.
By your logic,
then Luxenbourg, Malta, cyprus should not be in the Euro group. They does get mucho licks but they still prodding along. I don't hear people saying those countries should drop out of the Euro zone. And by the way Cyprus has improved tremendously. They gave the Italians a run for their money in WC qualifications. They use to be one of the doormats of Euro. You may not want to believe it, but they are taken seriously now.
Look, the islanders will benefit from being in the Concacaf group. For them to advance they will HAVE TO improve. Their individual FAs will have to figure that out with help for their owngovt, business, their diaspora and technical help from outside(FiFa, etc). The US has the organization and MONEY. YEs MONEY to do things we islanders dream about doing. The US, Canada, Mex, send their yutes to summer tournaments in Europe. Ask Jack to do that, nah, We just don't have that type of resources. That is a plain and simple fact.
Your premise about the US and the islanders not being in the same group is bordering on arrogance. Sorry!
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women's soccer please go back and read my original post "women's soccer " "women's soccer" women's soccer
"Caribbean islands and USA". If you bring the men into it or any other country except the USA and Caribbean islands you are not addressing what I say is the problem
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http://www.cypruswomenscup.com/
they cant even make their own tournament.
womens rankings
http://www.rankfootball.com/women.html
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http://www.cypruswomenscup.com/
they cant even make their own tournament.
womens rankings
http://www.rankfootball.com/women.html
zeppo 2.0 ???
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LOL...Touches I'm not getting back into this argument with tripple's again. I think I've said enough. For tripple's sake I hope Jack read his post and send USA, Mexico and canada out of Concacaf, allow Antigua, St. Lucia and Barbados qualify for a World Tournament for as many times as possible and get 8 and 10 in those tournaments every time they qualify...just so people like tripples can say well we qualify. Stupes!
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just so it is clear, the USA And Caribbean island teams do not belong in same conference
Well can we infer from your exclusion od USA only, that the island women's teams are good enough to compete and beat Mexico and Canada? If you think so, then I conclude that you don't understand the dynamics of what is lacking in women's football other than having a smaller pool of players to select from.
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fordy you find one post where I said Mexico and Canada should be out I will send 1000.oo to your favorite charity. Stop mixing my argument up I SAID USA USA USA USA USA.
Mexico and Canada can stay in it still gives one of the small island tams a chance USA ,USA USA is the team I belive should be moved
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CK1 I know what is missing, all of those other things can be fixed, What can never be fixed is the size of the pool though trini men are trying to catch up, just not enough trini women willing to help
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fordy you find one post where I said Mexico and Canada should be out I will send 1000.oo to your favorite charity. Stop mixing my argument up I SAID USA USA USA USA USA.
Mexico and Canada can stay in it still gives one of the small island tams a chance USA ,USA USA is the team I belive should be moved
LOL...aight tripples i hear yuh! This is too funny!
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Triples there are some coaches I can name that if given the womens program for 2 -3 years and let them put their structure in place T&T will beat the USA at the youth level and within 5-7 years to beat the senior team. And nnyman18 is one of them.
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okay do it :-[
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Triples there are some coaches I can name that if given the womens program for 2 -3 years and let them put their structure in place T&T will beat the USA at the youth level and within 5-7 years to beat the senior team. And nnyman18 is one of them.
Believe me I do not mean this in any disrespectful way, but this is a tall order. Consider the fact that major countries with a tradition in women's football & huge investments, have struggled to achieve what you are proposing. France and Italy (As examples) have invested in 10 year programs, with France mimicing Clairefontaine for women and though they made a dent, are struggling to make headway. It's way more than simply coaching. Presently, the U17 coach has had players in full training since January 09 and the proof will be in September for these young players.
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women's soccer please go back and read my original post "women's soccer " "women's soccer" women's soccer
"Caribbean islands and USA". If you bring the men into it or any other country except the USA and Caribbean islands you are not addressing what I say is the problem
Ok, Ok. I now realise you still on the women's issue. Yes the gap between the US and the Islander is huge. I don't see that gap closing soon. Unless the associations in each island decides to put MONEY into their women's program. They barely have for the men, so the women will ALWAYS get the short end. With the exception of women track in JA, women sports in Caribbean is not taken seriously. There are exceptions for some individuals, but by and large women sports get short changed.
The Caribbean will continue to get hammered by the socalled big 1. But they will stay in CONCACAF. That is their region. They will have the prelims for the weaklins. The winner of the weaklins will go North to play and will get spanked until they get it right. When? Maybe 2020? Maybe never?
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CK1 I know what is missing, all of those other things can be fixed, What can never be fixed is the size of the pool though trini men are trying to catch up, just not enough trini women willing to help
I'm trying to understand your position because it does not appear to be automatic that if the US is not in the region that the island teams will be good enough to beat Mexico, Canada and even some of the Central American team. If ALL the other things are fixed, then I believe that even with a small player pool(pool is much bigger with quality beyond the island boarders) you can gain enough ground to be competitive with the US and beat them. There are things some of us are aware of in this equation that I think you are missing or not privy to. Ask some of the players in the senior team who have played in the US College system if they think with a proper programing and financial support and coaching if they think they can compete and win against the top teams in Concacaf. You may be very suprised at the answers you get. The US , Canada and Mexico never take the Trinidad and Jamica teams lightely and they prepare hard for them as any other opponent; it is our people who don't think we can compete and therefore have a defeatist approach towards these competitions. If the federation does the same for women's football as they did for the men, you'll see how much of a difference it will make. If nnyman 18 coaching and directing women's football is no way we getting that kind of licks !!! The fact is that you are happy satisfied with where the women's game is and therefore you don't really want to see any real significant changes made. Look at the things the English FA did for their women's programs and see how much improvement have been made in the last 5 years. Look and see what the Dutch have recently implemented,(they did not have a big player pool either), but they introduced programs to get more girls playing. How many girls at U-15 are playing netball??? that is where you will find your goalkeepers How many are running track???that's where the player pool comes from.
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CK1 I know what is missing, all of those other things can be fixed, What can never be fixed is the size of the pool though trini men are trying to catch up, just not enough trini women willing to help
Not enough women playing sports, period. or they cut short their sport career because of other things. I agree with you on that one.
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Well Fellas I appreciate your confidence in me as a potential coach that can get it done. But as we all know there are many gifted coaches out there with ties to Trini. I will make my point and move on because I have come to the conclusion that triples is a brother who just will never get it. With the information i am privy to his arguments are quite arsenine. I am getting ready to return to the US after spending the past week on the campus of the Spanish Federation. As I spent time with some of the best coaches in La Liga from Real Madrid and Getafe just to name a few, and the Spanish national team I realize how far behind we are in the US and even further behind in Trinidad. As i watched their women's coaches worked with their full and youth national teams I couldn't help but feel we could be further ahead as a US national youth team program.Triples where was the rest of the world when US won the world cup in 1999. In the same breath where were the Costa Ricans, Mexican and Canadian and Trinidad youth Women's national teams in 1999. The first three have made strides and the Trini is still where they were for the most part. As i listened to the Spanish coaches I heard about their limitations but I also heard about focusing on the things they have control over. I would agree that many of the Caribbean women's team are behind. my question to you is are they doing the very best to maximise what they have control over. If they have taken the route trini has taken then I would say no. The last time I checked Mexico, Canada and Costa Rica are in the CONCACAF. I know they make the most of of what they have and they have experienced many successes. In due time if the other countries in the Caribbean follow suit they will have their day in the sun. Could you imagine where football would be today if the regions of the world too your advice.
I would love to stay and chat with you brother but I will only be wasting my time. I have a plane to catch and some serious work to attend to. We just got our ass kicked by Canada and for the first time we have not qualified for a women's youth world cup. It is my hope that this is a wake cup call for our federation. The US are no longer the big dogs at the youth levels. I am happy for those CONCACAF teams that are headed to the World Cup. I am glad there federations didn't take your approach many years ago when it seemed like the most logical thing to do.I wish you all the best brother. I will try my best to stay away from you. I have players to identify and develop moving forward. Hopefully one day you will realize that your argument is baseless.
Let me share a little secret with you. I wish we had some of the players Trini have in our program here in the US. The women's team with strong men's programs are the ones who are making strides in women's football right now. When you have a minute check that out. They mimic the men and they assume some of their characteristics. We have always depended on structure/organization, speed and athleticism and from time to time we develop a couple special players who can get it done. Some of these Trini girls are so game savvy and technically gifted. I pray and hope that you are one of a kind. Your way of thinking will just destroy the women's game. You know what lets take your advice brakes the Caribbean teams from getting 10 in CONCACAF so they could get 15 in the world cup.
I wish you well Triples
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What the f**k is a "conference" where football (or, I guess, "soccer", for you) is concerned? How is it determined what country belongs in which "conference"? Asshole, go f**k yourslef somewhere in a corner nuh! Typical f**kin' domb-ass american!! I really don't know why y'all entertaining this prick.
Stop holding back and tell us how you really feel nuh...
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Let me share a little secret with you. I wish we had some of the players Trini have in our program here in the US. The women's team with strong men's programs are the ones who are making strides in women's football right now. When you have a minute check that out. They mimic the men and they assume some of their characteristics. We have always depended on structure/organization, speed and athleticism and from time to time we develop a couple special players who can get it done. Some of these Trini girls are so game savvy and technically gifted. I pray and hope that you are one of a kind. Your way of thinking will just destroy the women's game. You know what lets take your advice brakes the Caribbean teams from getting 10 in CONCACAF so they could get 15 in the world cup.
I wish you well Triples
Football brain difficult to come by with women footballers especially.
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nnyman18 Just a couple of questions to indulge me if you may. Off the bat I am not very familiar with
womens football, but I do follow the games. My question to you, which is a debate you may be aware of.
Is the fact that the US has moved towards big strong players in the National set up and have ignored the
the technical players. Is this true in your opinion? Certainly to my untrained eye they have no players with
the technical quality of Michelle Akers, Carin Jennings, Hamm. I guess my question is. Is it a selection issue, or player development issue?
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Observer I am glad you raised that point because I will share with you a culture that has been perpetuated throughout the US National women's team program as well as the men. As my research has also shown me its not just a US thing but a system that is being used all over the world and the Spanish Soccer Federation addressed it since its being used in their programming right now. Players are selected by their birth years for their youth national teams. As a result when you look at players born from Jan to June as oppose to June-December, they are not only more gifted with the Physical component of the game which includes being bigger, stronger and faster but their maturity level is greater. So the US who for years have been depending on players with these gifts have been stocking our national teams with these types of players. This is not only true with the US but its a phenomenon that is used all over the world. This week while visiting with the Spanish soccer federation and was a part of a conversation confirming this exact same thing. Spain is worried about this. Since there are times player may get over looked because of their physical dimension being born in the latter half of the year. I would say though based on my definition of a technical player, we do have a few sprinkle around the various national teams we have. Some of the ones you called are legends. But since Pia Sundhage took over with the senior team I have seen a change in attitude approach and technical efficiency within the structure of the team. However, it is still a problem to me so I would say player identification selection and player development are at the core of some of the issues we are experiencing today in the women's game here in the US. However, its not just a women's thing or a US thing its all over the world. It may not seem like it because of where and because we see some of the other countries with great football players. But my friends its like that all over the world from South America, Europe etc When you have a minute just visit some of the rosters of some of these national teams and take a look at their birth year. Presently the majority of the Spanish players were Born before June
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Observer I am glad you raised that point because I will share with you a culture that has been perpetuated throughout the US National women's team program as well as the men. As my research has also shown me its not just a US thing but a system that is being used all over the world and the Spanish Soccer Federation addressed it since its being used in their programming right now. Players are selected by their birth years for their youth national teams. As a result when you look at players born from Jan to June as oppose to June-December, they are not only more gifted with the Physical component of the game which includes being bigger, stronger and faster but their maturity level is greater. So the US who for years have been depending on players with these gifts have been stocking our national teams with these types of players. This is not only true with the US but its a phenomenon that is used all over the world. This week while visiting with the Spanish soccer federation and was a part of a conversation confirming this exact same thing. Spain is worried about this. Since there are times player may get over looked because of their physical dimension being born in the latter half of the year. I would say though based on my definition of a technical player, we do have a few sprinkle around the various national teams we have. Some of the ones you called are legends. But since Pia Sundhage took over with the senior team I have seen a change in attitude approach and technical efficiency within the structure of the team. However, it is still a problem to me so I would say player identification selection and player development are at the core of some of the issues we are experiencing today in the women's game here in the US. However, its not just a women's thing or a US thing its all over the world. It may not seem like it because of where and because we see some of the other countries with great football players. But my friends its like that all over the world from South America, Europe etc When you have a minute just visit some of the rosters of some of these national teams and take a look at their birth year. Presently the majority of the Spanish players were Born before June
Thank you very much. Yes I am aware of the birth date issue and it is in all sport. Only those Nations that lack depth have very little choice. However, in countries like Spain (though they express concern) I would guess that it matters less because though the players may be overlooked at an International youth level, they will be caught in the net of the clubs.
This is why Holland (as an example), do no place such a high priority on youth international football (until U21), because as they explained, Dutch players mature later than most of their Euro counterparts.
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Agree!
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Observer I am glad you raised that point because I will share with you a culture that has been perpetuated throughout the US National women's team program as well as the men. As my research has also shown me its not just a US thing but a system that is being used all over the world and the Spanish Soccer Federation addressed it since its being used in their programming right now. Players are selected by their birth years for their youth national teams. As a result when you look at players born from Jan to June as oppose to June-December, they are not only more gifted with the Physical component of the game which includes being bigger, stronger and faster but their maturity level is greater. So the US who for years have been depending on players with these gifts have been stocking our national teams with these types of players. This is not only true with the US but its a phenomenon that is used all over the world. This week while visiting with the Spanish soccer federation and was a part of a conversation confirming this exact same thing. Spain is worried about this. Since there are times player may get over looked because of their physical dimension being born in the latter half of the year. I would say though based on my definition of a technical player, we do have a few sprinkle around the various national teams we have. Some of the ones you called are legends. But since Pia Sundhage took over with the senior team I have seen a change in attitude approach and technical efficiency within the structure of the team. However, it is still a problem to me so I would say player identification selection and player development are at the core of some of the issues we are experiencing today in the women's game here in the US. However, its not just a women's thing or a US thing its all over the world. It may not seem like it because of where and because we see some of the other countries with great football players. But my friends its like that all over the world from South America, Europe etc When you have a minute just visit some of the rosters of some of these national teams and take a look at their birth year. Presently the majority of the Spanish players were Born before June
Interesting you bring this up. Was talking to someone about this recently- she read a book where studies supported a belief that people born in a particular part of the year were likely to be more successful at sports, than those in another part of the year (didn't remember what the division was whether it was Jan-June etc...). The reasoning stems from the fact that minor differences in age, at a young age make a bigger difference than at an older age (e.g. the difference between a 7yr old and a 6yr old is bigger than the difference between a 21yr old and a 20yrd old)...So kids that are on the older side of their peer group even by just a few months to a year, dominate their peers from a young age, and it leads to more playing time, more exposure, more motivation, more confidence, and even a greater chance to compete against kids in an older age bracket i.e. accelerated development... By the time those kids get to the competitive stage, the incremental benefits have added up over the years... I didn't pay it much attention to be honest- alotta times these guys push a point to sell a book, and they might even fall into a "confirming evidence trap/bias" i.e. seeking out research data to suit their point, but I suppose there is some validity to it (either that or the proponents of it are effective at selling the philosophy), if at the highest levels, sports administrators are actually using it as a gauge to identify talent...interesting stuff.