Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: truetrini on October 24, 2010, 11:54:56 AM
-
Immigrant vets face deportation despite service
Buzz up!5 votes Share
retweet
EmailPrint.. AP – In this undated photo provided by the US Marine Corps, Rohan Coombs is shown. When Coombs joined the … .By JULIANA BARBASSA, Associated Press Writer Juliana Barbassa, Associated Press Writer – 8 mins ago
SAN FRANCISCO – When Rohan Coombs joined the U.S. Marine Corps, he never thought one day he would be locked up in an immigration detention center and facing deportation from the country he had vowed to defend.
Coombs, 43, born in Jamaica, immigrated to the United States legally as a child with his family. He signed up to serve his adopted nation for six years — first in Japan and the Philippines, then in the Persian Gulf during the first war with Iraq.
Up to 8,000 non-citizens enlist in the U.S. Armed Forces every year and serve alongside American troops. As of May 2010, there were 16,966 non-citizens on active duty. The military does not allow illegal immigrants to enlist.
If non-citizens die while serving, they are given citizenship and a military funeral. If they live and get in trouble with the law, as Coombs did, they can get caught in the net of a 1996 immigration law that greatly expanded the list of crimes for which non-citizens can be deported.
"As far as I was concerned, I was a citizen," said Coombs, whose soft-spoken, introspective nature contrast with his physical presence. Coombs stands 6 foot 5 and weighs more than 260 pounds — a gentle giant, according to his fiancee, Robyn Sword.
Now advocates of non-citizen servicemen and women are trying to change that. Attorneys are taking cases like Coombs' to court, arguing that an immigrant who serves in the Armed Forces should be considered a U.S. national and protected from deportation.
"These are people who served us — whether they are model human beings or not," said Coombs' attorney, Craig Shagin of Harrisburg, Pa. "They served in our uniforms, in our wars. If they were POWs, they'd be considered American prisoners."
Rep. Bob Filner, D-Calif., chairman of the House Veterans' Affairs Committee, is looking into potential changes to the law so immigrants who serve in the military can avoid deportation.
"You come back from Iraq or Afghanistan today, you have put yourself on the line for this country," said Filner. "An incredible number of kids come back with an injury or illness that puts them in trouble with the law. To simply have these people deported is not a good way to thank them for their service."
Advocates estimate that thousands of veterans have been deported or are in detention. Government officials say they have no tally but plan to begin tracking the numbers.
The push comes as criminal courts are increasingly listening to arguments for leniency for veterans.
So-called veterans courts, which give them specialized treatment, now number more than 30, with a dozen more planned.
Next month, new U.S. Sentencing Commission rules will make it possible for federal judges to consider a criminal defendant's military service and mental and emotional condition to issue a lesser prison sentence. The rules, however, would not apply to immigration judges.
Most immigrants serve with distinction. The Center for Naval Analyses, a federally funded research and development center for the Navy and the Marine Corps, found that non-citizens are far more likely to complete their enlistment obligations successfully than their U.S.-born counterparts.
Coombs was one who did not make the grade.
He spent 10 months in the Persian Gulf and lost friends to combat, he said. After the war, he felt depressed and anxious. His family was far away in New York, and he said "whining" to fellow Marines didn't seem an option.
Instead, he got involved with drugs, and he got caught.
In 1992, he was court-martialed for possession of cocaine and marijuana with the intent to distribute, and was given 18 months of confinement and a dishonorable discharge.
He continued to struggle with drugs.
"Things would be going well, then something would happen," he said.
He got married, and that helped. When his wife died in 2001 of diabetes-related complications, he started smoking marijuana again.
In 2008, he was busted for selling marijuana to an undercover officer while working as a bouncer in an Orange County bar. He spent eight months in state prison.
"I don't want to make excuses. I made mistakes. I thought I knew the consequences — I served my time," he said in a telephone interview.
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement found that his criminal convictions made him eligible for deportation, and he was turned over to ICE after serving his sentence. He has been held in a San Diego immigration detention center for 22 months and is appealing to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court.
Coombs was stunned to realize he could be forced to leave the country for his crimes.
"This is the only life I've known," he said. "The only time I left this country was when I was deployed overseas. This is my home."
On the other side of the country, Dardar Paye is appealing his deportation case to the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania.
Paye came to the U.S. from war torn Liberia as a 13-year-old. He joined the Army in 1998, serving in Kuwait as part of Operation Desert Fox and then in a NATO peacekeeping mission in Kosovo. He returned to New Jersey, where his family lives, to spend another year and a half with the Army National Guard.
In 2008, he was convicted of six weapons-related offenses, including two involving firearms dealing, and served time in federal prison. Now, like Coombs, he is facing deportation and is feeling betrayed.
"When I was in Kuwait, in Kosovo, I was like everyone else who was there, putting their lives on the line," said Paye, who in the Army was an armored vehicle crewman. "Now I feel like they just used me for what they wanted, and now they're throwing me away."
Advocates and immigration attorneys say that before the 1996 Illegal Immigrant Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, few immigrant veterans were deported, because immigration authorities could take their service into consideration.
The law added crimes such as drug possession for sale to the list of serious crimes that could lead to deportation of a legal immigrant.
"Drugs, anger management, weapons charges, that's what a lot of vets are getting caught for, and there is no relief," said Margaret Stock, a recently retired Army reservist and immigration attorney who taught at the United States Military Academy at West Point. "The 1996 law really put the nails in their coffin."
Coombs' attorneys, Shagin and Heather Boxeth of San Diego, Calif., who have represented or advised immigrant veterans in similar straits, estimate up to 4,000 veterans who served as long ago as World War II are now in immigration detention or have been deported, but acknowledge that there are no hard numbers.
ICE spokeswoman Lori Haley said identifying and removing dangerous criminals from the country is an agency priority — and that the cases of people with prior military service are carefully reviewed.
Meantime, the military has started to offer a fast-track to citizenship to immigrants currently serving. Now, most joining the Army can expect to be citizens by the end of basic training, said Stock. Other branches are expected to join the effort by the end of the year.
That help doesn't extend to those who have already served such as Paye and Coombs.
"If I had died," said Coombs, they would have made me a citizen, given me a military funeral, and given the flag to my mom. But I didn't die. Here I am. I just want another chance."
-
rules is rules . if you was not born in america and is convicted of a felony according to the immigration rules and laws you wil be deported. I know one guy beat it by his lawyer arguing he came to this country at the age of 4 and have never been back to guyana . he knows no one in guyana and won his case due to dat fact. law is law .
war
-
There are many options for non-citizens to aquire there citizinship while serving. They are given the option to get it after three months of serives and the process is fast. Feeling betrayed? he didn't say. He wanna do crimes (not just one but numerous) and say that? De ordasity. :devil:
Atleast he getting to go somewhere and live like a free man and not in a crouded jail cell.
He getting off easy. I have no remorse for his situation. As a Retired Vet. if I was in the court I would show no sympathy. He should be tried in a court of his peers and I can almost guarantee they will not show any either.
-
How bout he betrayed the US by doing what he did. Made a bad picture of us who served and served proudly.
Words cyah express how pissed this one have me.
-
is no wonder glenn beck have a "restoring honor" rally cuz americans have convenient memories.
-
How bout he betrayed the US by doing what he did. Made a bad picture of us who served and served proudly.
Words cyah express how pissed this one have me.
'
He did his time. He just does not want to get deportd.
I find yuh talking level shit about feeling shamed etc. You talk about audacity.....when he was serving where was the audacity? He deserves to be allowed to stay.
When I was serving there was no short cut like after 3 months it was 3 years!
This is new and he has a damn right to be allowed to stay.
-
boy serving in the us military HARD so he deserve to at least stay
-
How bout he betrayed the US by doing what he did. Made a bad picture of us who served and served proudly.
Words cyah express how pissed this one have me.
'
He did his time. He just does not want to get deportd.
I find yuh talking level shit about feeling shamed etc. You talk about audacity.....when he was serving where was the audacity? He deserves to be allowed to stay.
When I was serving there was no short cut like after 3 months it was 3 years!
This is new and he has a damn right to be allowed to stay.
This is beyond nonsense... it is level bullshit. If he wasn't WI none ah allyuh would be saying ah peep.
The law been on the books since 1996, I sure he did know about it. Yuh have ah choice, become ah citizen, or keep yuh li'l residency status and keep yuh facking nose clean. He did his time fine, but that is just one of the penalties he was exposed to. There are legal penalties and administrative penalties. If he was just a drug addict he wouldn't be in this predicament, but is ketch he get ketch with intent to deliver... automatic felony. I ent saying ah not sorry, but let him ride out. Preacher is correct, he shaming all WI's, if not all immigrants serving/who served in the military.
-
BULLSHIT!
He was good enough to enlist, good enough to get trained, good enough to serve, good enough to deploy, the he is good enough to be allowed to stay in this country!
How the f**k he shaming any West Indian?
People use drugs all the time, he f**ked up he was thrown out he did his time, now yuh go punish him again by deporting him?
And why is it they changing the l;aws all the time as it pertains to legal immigrants serving as vets>?
This happened in 1992..how de hell anyone knows that he was denied citizenship based on his felony conviction?
he may have tried and was turned down.
is level fuc keries to deport him.
I posted the article because I felt it was bullshit, it has nutten to do with him being West Indian as far as I am concerned. He is a veteran and put his life, limb on the line, that should have some value, it have some who eh serve in de Salvation Army and they getting a bligh.
He came as a child, what does he have in Jamaica? Did he choose to fight for Jamaica? Lewt him ride out? Level f**keries. L-E-V-E-L!
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,651989,00.html
BULLSHIT!
-
Look more fodder
Immigrant Soldiers Serve Country, Still Face Deportation
U.S. Army soldier. Photo: Getty Images/Chris Hondros
by Julianne Hing ShareThis | Print | Comment (0)
Monday, October 25 2010, 5:12 PM EST Tags: deportation, immigration enforcement, torn apart
24
Share
INVESTIGATION: How Immigration Reform Got Caught in the Deportation DragnetIt jars the mind: immigrants who put their lives on the line, served in wars from Korea to Kosovo, and are being rewarded for their service by being deported from the United States. How can it be? And yet, many are.
The AP’s Juliana Barbassa reports that an estimated 4,000 immigrant veterans are facing deportation or have already been deported because of criminal convictions. Barbassa profiles Rohan Coombs, a 43-year-old Jamaican-born U.S. Marine who fell on hard times after he came back from serving in the Persian Gulf in the first Iraq war. Coombs was convicted of selling pot to an undercover cop in 2008, when he was working as a bouncer outside a club. He’s facing deportation now to a country he left when he was a child.
“If I had died,” Coombs tells Barbassa, “they would have made me a citizen, given me a military funeral, and given the flag to my mom. But I didn’t die. Here I am. I just want another chance.”
Barbassa reports that around 8,000 legal residents enlist in the military every year, and currently there are almost 17,000 people who are not citizens on active duty. Undocumented immigrants are barred from serving in the military.
A set of laws passed by Congress in 1996 made immigrants convicted of a class of so-called “aggravated felonies”—any crime where the possible jail sentence was two years—deportable. Under this new designation, “aggravated felonies” for immigration purposes could be crimes that are not actually felonies in criminal law. For the majority of people, the law was crystal clear: no judicial discretion, no second chances. Even if they arrived in the country as kids and don’t speak the language of the country they’re being sent to. Even if they had since rebuilt their lives and gotten themselves back on track. Even if they are U.S. military.
CNN recently profiled a pair of brothers in their fifties named Manuel and Valente Valenzuela who are facing deportation for convictions that are years old. One was convicted on domestic violence charges eleven years ago, another for resisting arrest 25 years ago. People serve time for their criminal convictions, and then face a second punishment all over again with deportation. The story is not uncommon, but it’s not often told.
While there are reports that the Obama administration is allowing some immigration judges to exercise discretion in a select few deportation cases, the vast majority do not get such treatment. Coombs and the Valenzuelas will be forced to leave the country unless the U.S. government steps in to halt their removal orders.
Among the millions of immigrants who’ve seen their families torn apart by deportation, criminal deportees’ stories’ don’t often lend themselves to easy storytelling or sympathy. Perhaps because of this, they’re neither as visible nor as outspoken in the mainstream immigrant rights movement. None of the policy options on the table in the current immigration reform debate would address the plight of criminal deportees.
Indeed, they’re the favored scapegoat of the immigrant rights discourse. The Obama administration has committed to cracking down on immigrants with criminal convictions on their records—hardened and dangerous criminals, the administration calls them. And deportations of people with criminal convictions are indeed up, as are deportations of those with no criminal history. The Obama administration deported 392,000 people in the last fiscal year, a record number of single-year removals.
Many who’ve been kicked out of the country, however, were convicted of minor, nonviolent crimes like shoplifting and pot possession. There are those, too, who are deported from the country and barred from re-entering because of domestic violence convictions, and even homicide.
Except everyone’s story is much more complicated than just the crimes they were convicted of, none more so than for immigrant vets.
That one person can be both valorous hero and convicted criminal—indeed that any person might have been convicted of a terrible crime and still deserve legal protection and the right to stay in the country with their families—messes with the story we’ve been told about who deserves to stay in the country and who doesn’t.
Our legal system gets similarly confused. The immigration system is not prepared to deal with these nuances, and the immigration laws no longer make allowance for complicated pasts and the full spectrum of human reality. Untold thousands of families have been torn apart as a result.
Barbassa reports that the U.S. government couldn’t give hard numbers on how many vets are deported every year, but will start tracking that. And, in a bit of hopeful news, immigrant vets facing similar fates may have an ally in Congress:
Rep. Bob Filner, D-Calif., chairman of the House Veterans’ Affairs Committee, is looking into potential changes to the law so immigrants who serve in the military can avoid deportation.
“You come back from Iraq or Afghanistan today, you have put yourself on the line for this country,” said Filner. “An incredible number of kids come back with an injury or illness that puts them in trouble with the law. To simply have these people deported is not a good way to thank them for their service.”
-
Non-citizen veterans facing deportation despite service to U.S.
By larryjohnson Recommend this story (0 votes)
Report abuse |
Share 50From Larry Johnson's blog: Looking for Trouble.
Non-citizen veterans of Vietnam, both Gulf wars and Afghanistan are being “quietly” deported despite U.S. military promises of citizenship in exchange for fighting for the United States.
Reportedly there are over 3,000 veterans currently incarcerated and under threat of deportation nation wide.
Veterans’ rights activist Jan Ruhman wrote last year on the blog Vetspeak.org:
“American Military veterans who have served our nation in times of war and peace have quietly been deported since 1996 when the Immigration Reform Act (IRA) was passed by the Republican Controlled Congress and “broadly” redefined Aggravated Felony (AG) and took away certain applications for relief. This simple change in the definition of AG in the law has directly affected tens of thousands of veterans who served their nation. Quite simply, they are facing forced deportation or have in fact already been “quietly” and unceremoniously deported over the past 13 years.
“A trail of lies has been uncovered at point of recruitment and in boot camps. Statements concerning U. S. Citizenship being “automatic” were related by many veterans we interviewed. Other veterans, who were more educated, knew different and applied while in the military but then deployed to a combat zone and United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) didn’t have their application follow them. Many, who knew they had to apply, simply found that (as is the case with many veterans upon discharge, especially those suffering from PTSD), navigating the “system” is not psychologically or emotionally possible, for them.
“At present, it is estimated that over 3,000 of our fellow veterans are incarcerated and face deportation in Department of Homeland Security/INS Prisons nation wide. They are being processed through court rooms in rented industrials parks that more closely resemble fast food franchises turning out lunch than justice. Many are being held under “mandatory detention” with no option to pay bail to be released while fighting their case.
“Each month the human misery and degradation suffered by these veterans, their families and loved ones continues to grow.”
Nicolas Taborek, a staff writer for the Imperial Valley Press reports on two of those veterans in California:
“After serving six years in the U.S. Marine Corps, Rohan Coombs assumed he had earned American citizenship.
“But today the Jamaican immigrant is one of several military veterans in custody at the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement facility in El Centro fighting to avoid deportation.
“Coombs, 42, moved to the United States with his mother when he was 14 and ended up at the facility after serving eight months in prison for a 2008 marijuana distribution conviction. About the time he was expecting to be released from prison, he received some surprising news: despite his military service during the first Gulf War, he was never granted U.S. citizenship. As a non-citizen, he was subject to removal from the country for his offense.
“All this time I was thinking I was a (U.S.) citizen,” Coombs said. “The only time I left this country is when I was in the military…”
“Another veteran detained in El Centro, Fernando Cervantes, 55, moved to the United States from Mexico when he was 7 years old and is facing deportation because he was convicted of possessing less than a gram of methamphetamine with intent to sell.”
Coombs and Cervantes, like many of the veterans being deported, say that the military told them they would automatically become citizens by serving in the armed forces.
Vets’ activist Ruhman, a veteran himself, urges people to contact their local congressional representatives to “demand justice for these patriots.” Ruhman calls the deportations a “failure of U.S. immigration policy” and believes that only a federal law can stop them.
-
BULLSHIT!
He was good enough to enlist, good enough to get trained, good enough to serve, good enough to deploy, the he is good enough to be allowed to stay in this country!
How the f**k he shaming any West Indian?
People use drugs all the time, he f**ked up he was thrown out he did his time, now yuh go punish him again by deporting him?
And why is it they changing the l;aws all the time as it pertains to legal immigrants serving as vets>?
This happened in 1992..how de hell anyone knows that he was denied citizenship based on his felony conviction?
he may have tried and was turned down.
is level fuc keries to deport him.
I posted the article because I felt it was bullshit, it has nutten to do with him being West Indian as far as I am concerned. He is a veteran and put his life, limb on the line, that should have some value, it have some who eh serve in de Salvation Army and they getting a bligh.
He came as a child, what does he have in Jamaica? Did he choose to fight for Jamaica?
BULLSHIT!
Yuh post de article... but did you read it?
In 2008, he was busted for selling marijuana to an undercover officer while working as a bouncer in an Orange County bar. He spent eight months in state prison.
In 2008, he was convicted of six weapons-related offenses, including two involving firearms dealing, and served time in federal prison. Now, like Coombs, he is facing deportation and is feeling betrayed.
-
Did you read the article? He was thrown out in 1992...that happens before 2008.
In 1992, he was court-martialed for possession of cocaine and marijuana with the intent to distribute, and was given 18 months of confinement and a dishonorable discharge.
That would have stopped him from Naturalizing!
So the excuse he ahd time to become a citizen does not hold water.
He should be allowed to stay! The hardships that military service brings even in this all voluntary military are huge and ardous.
-
boy serving in the us military HARD so he deserve to at least stay
CO-SIGNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
-
Did you read the article? He was thrown out in 1992...that happens before 2008.
In 1992, he was court-martialed for possession of cocaine and marijuana with the intent to distribute, and was given 18 months of confinement and a dishonorable discharge.
That would have stopped him from Naturalizing!
So the excuse he ahd time to become a citizen does not hold water.
He should be allowed to stay! The hardships that military service brings even in this all voluntary military are huge and ardous.
Uhm... there are millions of legal residents here in the US who going about their lives without breaking the law. Your argument holds absolutely no water. I saw that he was dishonorably discharged FOUR YEARS BEFORE THE LAW WENT INTO EFFECT. Who forced him to go sell drugs and then sell guns 12 YRS AFTER his immigrant ass knew they would throw him out the country for a felony and he still went ahead and commit not one but two?? Hardship my ass.
Buy dah fella ah rasta wig and ah beef pattie and send he ass back Jamaica.
-
There is a difference. If you choose not to acknowledge that then so be it. There are reasons why they are altering the law to confer citizenship when you join the military.
I guess we give the Mexicans two cans refried beans and some water wings and send them back over the Rio Grande too?
-
There is a difference. If you choose not to acknowledge that then so be it. There are reasons why they are altering the law to confer citizenship when you join the military.
I guess we give the Mexicans two cans refried beans and some water wings and send them back over the Rio Grande too?
What is de difference? Because yuh put on ah f**king uniform yuh get to disregard the law? Dis fella get the same chance as everybody else. Nobody tell him use drugs and fack up he career in the military. I understand him being depressed after his wife died... in 2001!! Nobody tell him use drugs. Nobody tell him sell drugs... to ah undercover officer no less. Nobody tell him sell guns. Long after the excuse of his wife dying expire. How many mudda ass chances he need? How many excuses you and his supporters will make for him? I sympathetic as the next man but allyuh need to learn to cut allyuh losses and save the sympathy for the people who deserve it.
Most ah dem Mexicans (like mose immigrants) coming here to break rocks... not sell rocks.
-
There is a difference. If you choose not to acknowledge that then so be it. There are reasons why they are altering the law to confer citizenship when you join the military.
I guess we give the Mexicans two cans refried beans and some water wings and send them back over the Rio Grande too?
What is de difference? Because yuh put on ah f**king uniform yuh get to disregard the law? Dis fella get the same chance as everybody else. Nobody tell him use drugs and fack up he career in the military. I understand him being depressed after his wife died... in 2001!! Nobody tell him use drugs. Nobody tell him sell drugs... to ah undercover officer no less. Nobody tell him sell guns. Long after the excuse of his wife dying expire. How many mudda ass chances he need? How many excuses you and his supporters will make for him? I sympathetic as the next man but allyuh need to learn to cut allyuh losses and save the sympathy for the people who deserve it.
Most ah dem Mexicans (like mose immigrants) coming here to break rocks... not sell rocks.
Ok sir. Regardless of his transgressions, he served this nation, good enough to fight for here, gopod enough to live her...he did his time, deporting a vet is just plain wrong, is not like he fail out of boot camp.
Remindds me of the black men who fought for this country's independence only to be placed back into slavery afterwards...good enought to fight but not good enough to enjoy citizenship!
-
Stop the Deportation of Immigrant Military Veterans
They put their lives on the line in the service of the United States of America, and ended up being booted out of the country they fought for.
March 14, 2010 | Advertisement They put their lives on the line in the service of the United States of America, and ended up being booted out of the country they fought for. They should be honored, not deported.
Immigrant military veterans of wars from Vietnam to Iraq have returned home from their service only to find detention and deportation awaiting them. More wound up on ICE's list after committing a criminal offense, most often drug-related. Veterans frequently end up in trouble with the law because they suffer from untreated Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), which the country has done a notoriously bad job of taking seriously and providing treatment for. These veterans should and do serve out jail sentences for their crimes, like any citizen veterans; but to then also deport them from the land they served is despicable. They served our flag, and they are our responsibility, for better or worse.
Activists who work on the issue say that hundreds or even thousands of the men and women who served under the American flag have been shipped back to their birth country; an estimated 3,000 veterans currently await deportation in often-inhumane detention centers; and many thousands live with the threat of possible deportation hanging over their heads. Immigration and Customs Enforcement doesn't keep track of this data because it just doesn't care whether you've served this country in war or not. More than 30,000 non-citizens currently serve in the U.S. Army, and immigrants receive more than 20% of Congressional Medals of Honor, but this award makes no difference to immigration officials.
There is a trail of broken promises to deported veterans. "When your tour ends," President Barack Obama vowed to those serving in the military, "when you touch our soil, you will be home in America that is forever here for you, just as you've been there for us. That is my promise." Military recruiters regularly promise citizenship to patriotic immigrants who volunteer to offer up their lives for America.
While service in the United States military can put an immigrant on a path to citizenship, the slightest blot on their criminal record derails that process. Though service members are required to take an oath of loyalty to America almost identical to the citizenship oath, America betrays their loyalty when it allows them to be deported. Ironically, many opponents of comprehensive immigration reform and a path to citizenship say that undocumented immigrants or legal resident immigrants facing deportation should "earn" citizenship by serving in our military. Guess what? They already are, and getting deported anyway.
The group "Banished Veterans" is working to stop the detention and deportation of immigrant veterans of the U.S. military, and bring home those who have already been banished to a country they didn't offer up their lives and blood to. Banished Veterans is collaborating with the National Lawyers Guild on a resolution asking that all immigrant veterans be automatically recognized as non-citizen nationals -- people who don't receive all the rights of citizenship, but owe permanent allegiance to America, and cannot be deported. And they need your help: support their cause by signing this petition to send a letter to Congress demanding a stop to these deportations.
-
Ok sir. Regardless of his transgressions, he served this nation, good enough to fight for here, gopod enough to live her...he did his time, deporting a vet is just plain wrong, is not like he fail out of boot camp.
Remindds me of the black men who fought for this country's independence only to be placed back into slavery afterwards...good enought to fight but not good enough to enjoy citizenship!
Now you really talking shit. You seriously comparing convicted criminals WHO KNOW WHAT THE PENALTY IS that awaits them if they break the law... to slaves who genuinely thought they were fighting for their freedom?? Look like you fall over de side ah de boat one time too often. I applaud him for his service to his country but the plaudits stop the minute you get dishonorably discharged. Then to make matters worse you turning to a life of crime?
Please!
-
It is comparable, you fight for an ideal, you serve a cause and then they discard you.
He served, and I understand his position very well...he does NOT deserve to be deported. He went to jail, he was punished for all his crimes now he is to be deported when all he really knows is life here?
Suppose he was damaged during the war, maybe he needs mental health care...certainly noe deportation!
Besides look at YOUR president's promise!
"When your tour ends," President Barack Obama vowed to those serving in the military, "when you touch our soil, you will be home in America that is forever here for you, just as you've been there for us. That is my promise." Military recruiters regularly promise citizenship to patriotic immigrants who volunteer to offer up their lives for America.
[/b]
That has always been the promise to veterans..once the uniform goes on you are an american, you feel if the enemy captures you he letting you go becasue you not a citizen?
steups
-
It is comparable, you fight for an ideal, you serve a cause and then they discard you.
He served, and I understand his position very well...he does NOT deserve to be deported. He went to jail, he was punished for all his crimes now he is to be deported when all he really knows is life here?
Suppose he was damaged during the war, maybe he needs mental health care...certainly noe deportation!
Besides look at YOUR president's promise!
"When your tour ends," President Barack Obama vowed to those serving in the military, "when you touch our soil, you will be home in America that is forever here for you, just as you've been there for us. That is my promise." Military recruiters regularly promise citizenship to patriotic immigrants who volunteer to offer up their lives for America.
[/b]
That has always been the promise to veterans..once the uniform goes on you are an american, you feel if the enemy captures you he letting you go becasue you not a citizen?
steups
What part of "criminal" do you not understand? He has not served his full sentence because whether you agree with the law or not he knew the penalty he faced. It have other poor non-vet immigrants getting deported fuh all kinda f**kery, who is dis jackass dat they can't send him back whey he come from. If was ah Grenadian in Trinidad he woulda be telling he story from de boat.
-
It is comparable, you fight for an ideal, you serve a cause and then they discard you.
He served, and I understand his position very well...he does NOT deserve to be deported. He went to jail, he was punished for all his crimes now he is to be deported when all he really knows is life here?
Suppose he was damaged during the war, maybe he needs mental health care...certainly noe deportation!
Besides look at YOUR president's promise!
"When your tour ends," President Barack Obama vowed to those serving in the military, "when you touch our soil, you will be home in America that is forever here for you, just as you've been there for us. That is my promise." Military recruiters regularly promise citizenship to patriotic immigrants who volunteer to offer up their lives for America.
[/b]
That has always been the promise to veterans..once the uniform goes on you are an american, you feel if the enemy captures you he letting you go becasue you not a citizen?
steups
What part of "criminal" do you not understand? He has not served his full sentence because whether you agree with the law or not he knew the penalty he faced. It have other poor non-vet immigrants getting deported fuh all kinda f**kery, who is dis jackass dat they can't send him back whey he come from. If was ah Grenadian in Trinidad he woulda be telling he story from de boat.
Bakes I find yuh talking level shit..once you put on the uniform and take the oath you all but ah citizen already.
They SHOULD NOT DEPORT men and women who fought for this country..if you were to take a poll of most Americans they will agree too!
He came here a s a child, where he come from is of little significance when he made an oath to serve this nation and this constitution over any other.
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
He served for six years and he got thrown out, that cannot negate his prior service.
And it is not just him, there are others who are being deported for stupid shit too.
I maintain that Veterans should not be deporteds!
-
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2010/10/25/woman.warrior.of.year.cnn
-
These people that live almost their entire lives in the US almost from birth, they develop into thugs, drug pushers, murderers etc, so they are home grown in the States criminals and jus so USA shipping them out to the small islands for us to deal with sometimes without any warning.
America create the criminals whether is because they fight in their wars or otherwise and then the great USA solution is to foist these people on countries that could least handle them THAT IS THE CRIME.
-
These people that live almost their entire lives in the US almost from birth, they develop into thugs, drug pushers, murderers etc, so they are home grown in the States criminals and jus so USA shipping them out to the small islands for us to deal with sometimes without any warning.
America create the criminals whether is because they fight in their wars or otherwise and then the great USA solution is to foist these people on countries that could least handle them THAT IS THE CRIME.
ent? Dat is a crime too, but in the case of Veterans, they SHOULD not be deported.
-
Bakes I find yuh talking level shit..once you put on the uniform and take the oath you all but ah citizen already.
They SHOULD NOT DEPORT men and women who fought for this country..if you were to take a poll of most Americans they will agree too!
He came here a s a child, where he come from is of little significance when he made an oath to serve this nation and this constitution over any other.
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
He served for six years and he got thrown out, that cannot negate his prior service.
And it is not just him, there are others who are being deported for stupid shit too.
I maintain that Veterans should not be deporteds!
You's ah waste ah blasted time... all you doing is repeating yuhself and talking ah emotional pack ah ass about veterans should not be deported. Like veterans deserve some kinda pass compared to everybody else. What so blasted special about veterans? This ent the days of the draft, them sign up and get ah paycheck like anybody else, is not like dem making some great sacrifice. Even so, when yuh done contribute something to society... instead you selling drugs and guns and begging fuh understanding now... after how many chances??
These people that live almost their entire lives in the US almost from birth, they develop into thugs, drug pushers, murderers etc, so they are home grown in the States criminals and jus so USA shipping them out to the small islands for us to deal with sometimes without any warning.
America create the criminals whether is because they fight in their wars or otherwise and then the great USA solution is to foist these people on countries that could least handle them THAT IS THE CRIME.
This too is ah pack ah ass... if was a small-islander committing crime in TnT allyuh done ship him back to whey ever he from long time. Bottom line is that if yuh not a citizen you are NOT the responsibility of your host country. It doh matter how long yuh where, or where yuh learn yuh criminal craft.
-
the man moved to the US when he was a boy. This is where he developed his values and criminal behaviours.
I think Fishes said it - he is US grown. Deporting him is a convenient way to get rid of a problem that had its Genesis in the good ole USA. Is the US problem and they should deal with it. Similar deportations happen in Canada too.
Ah have to agree with TC. Bakes let me respond to your comment/questions: "Like veterans deserve some kinda pass compared to everybody else. What so blasted special about veterans?"
Well, they put dey life on the line for the nation. In mines (and many others, books), that is what make them special and deserving of special treatment.
There are so many Vets who would roll over in their grave while you enjoying the rewards of their works.
-
Bakes you defending the indefensible, exporting people back to small states cannot be right and you know it.
A man reach in the states when he was a baby of six months and live all his life there then commit a crime getting post back to where he born because he never get naturalised is the height of nonsense and irresponsibilty for the most powerfull and richest country on the planet.
This man doh know a soul in Grenada , Jamaica , St Vincent or where ever and get post back there to survive how?
It is bordering on a human rights crime to the man and the small state.
So you take my pack ah ass and ride out on it obviously your great USA can do no wrong
-
These people that live almost their entire lives in the US almost from birth, they develop into thugs, drug pushers, murderers etc, so they are home grown in the States criminals and jus so USA shipping them out to the small islands for us to deal with sometimes without any warning.
America create the criminals whether is because they fight in their wars or otherwise and then the great USA solution is to foist these people on countries that could least handle them THAT IS THE CRIME.
This too is ah pack ah ass... if was a small-islander committing crime in TnT allyuh done ship him back to whey ever he from long time. Bottom line is that if yuh not a citizen you are NOT the responsibility of your host country. It doh matter how long yuh where, or where yuh learn yuh criminal craft.
[/quote]
Horse, ah cyar agree with yuh there. What Fishs say is correct. While I understand the law is clear in the US, it is an unjust or unfair law to the countries that being asked to accept the deportees. If someone comes to the US as a child, is reared in the US, educated in the US and developed there sense of morals and criminal behavior in the US, it is tough to just ship them back to their country of birth. Again, I understand the law but I'll never agree with it.
-
Like veterans deserve some kinda pass compared to everybody else. What so blasted special about veterans?
Boy de people take yuh in dey country gih yuh ah lil piece ah education and dais how yuh talkin
Nex ting ah go see yuh marchin wit Fred Phelps and dem.
-
Well Bakes if you dont know what makes veterans special in their respectuve countries, I am sorry....especially comabt veterans...sad indeed.
They do deserve a special pass and that is widely accepted everywhere. Excpet by you obviously.
If you have ever served you would know what sacrifices veterans make.
Why not lead a ,movement to get rid of Memorial day and veterans Day too.
http://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-40.htm
-
How bout he betrayed the US by doing what he did. Made a bad picture of us who served and served proudly.
Words cyah express how pissed this one have me.
'
He did his time. He just does not want to get deportd.
I find yuh talking level shit about feeling shamed etc. You talk about audacity.....when he was serving where was the audacity? He deserves to be allowed to stay.
When I was serving there was no short cut like after 3 months it was 3 years!
This is new and he has a damn right to be allowed to stay.
You need to read that again. He did not serve his whole time. He got in trouble even while in the military. He was trouble to begin with.
-
BULLSHIT!
He was good enough to enlist, good enough to get trained, good enough to serve, good enough to deploy, the he is good enough to be allowed to stay in this country!
How the f**k he shaming any West Indian?
People use drugs all the time, he f**ked up he was thrown out he did his time, now yuh go punish him again by deporting him?
And why is it they changing the l;aws all the time as it pertains to legal immigrants serving as vets>?
This happened in 1992..how de hell anyone knows that he was denied citizenship based on his felony conviction?
he may have tried and was turned down.
is level fuc keries to deport him.
I posted the article because I felt it was bullshit, it has nutten to do with him being West Indian as far as I am concerned. He is a veteran and put his life, limb on the line, that should have some value, it have some who eh serve in de Salvation Army and they getting a bligh.
He came as a child, what does he have in Jamaica? Did he choose to fight for Jamaica?
BULLSHIT!
Yuh post de article... but did you read it?
In 2008, he was busted for selling marijuana to an undercover officer while working as a bouncer in an Orange County bar. He spent eight months in state prison.
In 2008, he was convicted of six weapons-related offenses, including two involving firearms dealing, and served time in federal prison. Now, like Coombs, he is facing deportation and is feeling betrayed.
He eh read de ting.
He had nuff chances to get citezenship but for what ever reason does not. How in heavens name yuh go go out and do dem tings and think yuh have de right tuh stay. What about de ppl he infected with his wrong doings. I guess dey eh have no rights either.
Doh get fooled here. I served and got my citizenship while serving. Every thing was done in less than 3 months from day of submission. He was a trouble maker while in and a trouble make when he got out. No discipline.
The best he could have gotten was an "Other than Honarable Discharge" and that just as bad as "Dishonorable"
Let him ride out
-
It is comparable, you fight for an ideal, you serve a cause and then they discard you.
He served, and I understand his position very well...he does NOT deserve to be deported. He went to jail, he was punished for all his crimes now he is to be deported when all he really knows is life here?
Suppose he was damaged during the war, maybe he needs mental health care...certainly noe deportation!
Besides look at YOUR president's promise!
"When your tour ends," President Barack Obama vowed to those serving in the military, "when you touch our soil, you will be home in America that is forever here for you, just as you've been there for us. That is my promise." Military recruiters regularly promise citizenship to patriotic immigrants who volunteer to offer up their lives for America.
[/b]
That has always been the promise to veterans..once the uniform goes on you are an american, you feel if the enemy captures you he letting you go becasue you not a citizen?
steups
What part of "criminal" do you not understand? He has not served his full sentence because whether you agree with the law or not he knew the penalty he faced. It have other poor non-vet immigrants getting deported fuh all kinda f**kery, who is dis jackass dat they can't send him back whey he come from. If was ah Grenadian in Trinidad he woulda be telling he story from de boat.
Bakes I find yuh talking level shit..once you put on the uniform and take the oath you all but ah citizen already.
They SHOULD NOT DEPORT men and women who fought for this country..if you were to take a poll of most Americans they will agree too!
He came here a s a child, where he come from is of little significance when he made an oath to serve this nation and this constitution over any other.
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
He served for six years and he got thrown out, that cannot negate his prior service.And it is not just him, there are others who are being deported for stupid shit too.
I maintain that Veterans should not be deporteds!
What you talking bout here, he eh get thrown out he put himself out by his actions. He was to protect the constitution not abuse it. Read dat thing again. wait let me give you it just incase yuh miss it again " I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same" tell me how his actions were inline with these words.
You may never understand since you never served. I am trying but it may be of no service to you.
-
These people that live almost their entire lives in the US almost from birth, they develop into thugs, drug pushers, murderers etc, so they are home grown in the States criminals and jus so USA shipping them out to the small islands for us to deal with sometimes without any warning.
America create the criminals whether is because they fight in their wars or otherwise and then the great USA solution is to foist these people on countries that could least handle them THAT IS THE CRIME.
This too is ah pack ah ass... if was a small-islander committing crime in TnT allyuh done ship him back to whey ever he from long time. Bottom line is that if yuh not a citizen you are NOT the responsibility of your host country. It doh matter how long yuh where, or where yuh learn yuh criminal craft.
Horse, ah cyar agree with yuh there. What Fishs say is correct. While I understand the law is clear in the US, it is an unjust or unfair law to the countries that being asked to accept the deportees. If someone comes to the US as a child, is reared in the US, educated in the US and developed there sense of morals and criminal behavior in the US, it is tough to just ship them back to their country of birth. Again, I understand the law but I'll never agree with it.
[/quote]
Airman,
while I agree with the morallity of this sentance and as you are a service man your self I must say this. A law is a law if you disobey, then you pay the penalty. You can not say there are any WI who does not know that if they break the law in the US that they take the chance of being deported. Thank you for your Service
As a Service Vet it is even more important that you be a role model. You are thought that somethings even though they may be acceptable by the community is not acceptable for you to do or partake. I work with wounded warriors daily and see the issues that they have and we try to help them. Some have been incarcerated and when they are out (even while in) if they seek help we will be there for them. So dont miss understand my stance as uncaring. There are resources for Vets and current members if they ask. The problem is that some others think they are above the law.
TC,
The statement used here by the current president has bared fruits and is acted upon. The Soldier in question here had his time prior to the inception of this declaration. there are though agencies that work with these vets to ensure they receive the same benefits as the current Soldiers. Ask and you shall find.
-
Like veterans deserve some kinda pass compared to everybody else. What so blasted special about veterans?
Boy de people take yuh in dey country gih yuh ah lil piece ah education and dais how yuh talkin
Nex ting ah go see yuh marchin wit Fred Phelps and dem.
Bake
This is de only part of yuh whole arguement dat ah cyah agree with yuh. I believe I deserve more that another. I served, did my job to the best of my ability, Placed my life on the line. Got retired medically due to circumstances beyond my control while trying to defend all that so many folks take for granted. I have a family and they don't have the full benefits of a father/husband because there are many things I cannot do due to my service time. I walk with a cane, cant stand or run cant lift my baby or girls if they hurt, cant breathe properly and take numerous mforms of medications and use different apparatuses every day to try and have some form of a normal life. I try to live as a model citizen and fight daily for the right of other Vets and Soldiers. Because we do deserve more than what we do get.
-
How bout he betrayed the US by doing what he did. Made a bad picture of us who served and served proudly.
Words cyah express how pissed this one have me.
'
He did his time. He just does not want to get deportd.
I find yuh talking level shit about feeling shamed etc. You talk about audacity.....when he was serving where was the audacity? He deserves to be allowed to stay.
When I was serving there was no short cut like after 3 months it was 3 years!
This is new and he has a damn right to be allowed to stay.
You need to read that again. He did not serve his whole time. He got in trouble even while in the military. He was trouble to begin with.
He was in a combat zone...have you ever seen combat? He served, he did his timew in jail for his crimes is what I meant.
-
How bout he betrayed the US by doing what he did. Made a bad picture of us who served and served proudly.
Words cyah express how pissed this one have me.
'
He did his time. He just does not want to get deportd.
I find yuh talking level shit about feeling shamed etc. You talk about audacity.....when he was serving where was the audacity? He deserves to be allowed to stay.
When I was serving there was no short cut like after 3 months it was 3 years!
This is new and he has a damn right to be allowed to stay.
You need to read that again. He did not serve his whole time. He got in trouble even while in the military. He was trouble to begin with.
He was in a combat zone...have you ever seen combat? He served, he did his timew in jail for his crimes is what I meant.
YES. note: Not because you were in a combat zone means you saw combat you are pointless. Watch the play of words
-
I know the difference very well. matters not, the point is he served, I cannot beleive your position. He got into trouble so what? He did 6 years before he got into trouble. If he was born here and got into trouble he would have faced the consequences and not have to face deportation, what distinguishes his service from a person born here and got into similar trouble?
bullshit talk from a vet too.
-
How did it take less than 3 months for you to get citizenship? That is impossible unless you applied a few years ago. becasue when I served it was 5 years for agreen card holder and THREE if you were serving honorably or did 3 years in the military and got ah honorable discharge!
The 3 months wait is a very recent development too.
-
These people that live almost their entire lives in the US almost from birth, they develop into thugs, drug pushers, murderers etc, so they are home grown in the States criminals and jus so USA shipping them out to the small islands for us to deal with sometimes without any warning.
America create the criminals whether is because they fight in their wars or otherwise and then the great USA solution is to foist these people on countries that could least handle them THAT IS THE CRIME.
This too is ah pack ah ass... if was a small-islander committing crime in TnT allyuh done ship him back to whey ever he from long time. Bottom line is that if yuh not a citizen you are NOT the responsibility of your host country. It doh matter how long yuh where, or where yuh learn yuh criminal craft.
Horse, ah cyar agree with yuh there. What Fishs say is correct. While I understand the law is clear in the US, it is an unjust or unfair law to the countries that being asked to accept the deportees. If someone comes to the US as a child, is reared in the US, educated in the US and developed there sense of morals and criminal behavior in the US, it is tough to just ship them back to their country of birth. Again, I understand the law but I'll never agree with it.
Airman,
while I agree with the morallity of this sentance and as you are a service man your self I must say this. A law is a law if you disobey, then you pay the penalty. You can not say there are any WI who does not know that if they break the law in the US that they take the chance of being deported. Thank you for your Service
As a Service Vet it is even more important that you be a role model. You are thought that somethings even though they may be acceptable by the community is not acceptable for you to do or partake. I work with wounded warriors daily and see the issues that they have and we try to help them. Some have been incarcerated and when they are out (even while in) if they seek help we will be there for them. So dont miss understand my stance as uncaring. There are resources for Vets and current members if they ask. The problem is that some others think they are above the law.
TC,
The statement used here by the current president has bared fruits and is acted upon. The Soldier in question here had his time prior to the inception of this declaration. there are though agencies that work with these vets to ensure they receive the same benefits as the current Soldiers. Ask and you shall find.
[/quote]
I bet you I have more service time that you!
Doh tell me I eh serve I served and did so very well.
You talk about taking 3 months to get citizenship that is a jes come package young sweat!
-
How did it take less than 3 months for you to get citizenship? That is impossible unless you applied a few years ago. becasue when I served it was 5 years for agreen card holder and THREE if you were serving honorably or did 3 years in the military and got ah honorable discharge!
The 3 months wait is a very recent development too.
Mine was done in 3 months. I did it in 2001 or 2002 cant remember right now. I was already in the military a few years so perhaps that counted but from the date my application was in to when I was called to swear in was less and not more than 3 months. I never wanted to get it because I did not want to swaer against holding my Trini. you know the deal.
On this case he messed up. In Trinbago they also deport trouble makers so why is it that the US should not.
-
the man moved to the US when he was a boy. This is where he developed his values and criminal behaviours.
I think Fishes said it - he is US grown. Deporting him is a convenient way to get rid of a problem that had its Genesis in the good ole USA. Is the US problem and they should deal with it. Similar deportations happen in Canada too.
Ah have to agree with TC. Bakes let me respond to your comment/questions: "Like veterans deserve some kinda pass compared to everybody else. What so blasted special about veterans?"
Well, they put dey life on the line for the nation. In mines (and many others, books), that is what make them special and deserving of special treatment.
There are so many Vets who would roll over in their grave while you enjoying the rewards of their works.
Give me a break with this jingoistic bullshit. The people who had no choice but to put their lives on hold and go fight in WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam is a different situation from today where Veterans make a conscious choice to go put their lives at risk, in exchange for a stable job, an opportunity for a career and benefits. Nobody, but NOBODY join the military to go play hero and "protect America" and "fight for liberty" and other such red state slogans. And if any of them do then they damn naive and foolish to let the military take advantage of the exuberance and pimp them like that.
By no means do I intend to diminish the hazards they face, nor diminish the personal sacrifices they are taking... but again, it's a conscious choice. Why stop at veterans? Peace Corps volunteers also serve their country. What about missionaries? In some cases their service might be considered a higher calling, and under even more hazardous conditions when you consider the hostility they encounter while proselytizing. What about cops and Firemen? They deserve a pass too?
Again I ask, what SO special about veterans that we must create a second tier of laws just for them. I won't even touch on the unconstitutionality of that proposal.
-
These people that live almost their entire lives in the US almost from birth, they develop into thugs, drug pushers, murderers etc, so they are home grown in the States criminals and jus so USA shipping them out to the small islands for us to deal with sometimes without any warning.
America create the criminals whether is because they fight in their wars or otherwise and then the great USA solution is to foist these people on countries that could least handle them THAT IS THE CRIME.
This too is ah pack ah ass... if was a small-islander committing crime in TnT allyuh done ship him back to whey ever he from long time. Bottom line is that if yuh not a citizen you are NOT the responsibility of your host country. It doh matter how long yuh where, or where yuh learn yuh criminal craft.
Horse, ah cyar agree with yuh there. What Fishs say is correct. While I understand the law is clear in the US, it is an unjust or unfair law to the countries that being asked to accept the deportees. If someone comes to the US as a child, is reared in the US, educated in the US and developed there sense of morals and criminal behavior in the US, it is tough to just ship them back to their country of birth. Again, I understand the law but I'll never agree with it.
Airman,
while I agree with the morallity of this sentance and as you are a service man your self I must say this. A law is a law if you disobey, then you pay the penalty. You can not say there are any WI who does not know that if they break the law in the US that they take the chance of being deported. Thank you for your Service
As a Service Vet it is even more important that you be a role model. You are thought that somethings even though they may be acceptable by the community is not acceptable for you to do or partake. I work with wounded warriors daily and see the issues that they have and we try to help them. Some have been incarcerated and when they are out (even while in) if they seek help we will be there for them. So dont miss understand my stance as uncaring. There are resources for Vets and current members if they ask. The problem is that some others think they are above the law.
TC,
The statement used here by the current president has bared fruits and is acted upon. The Soldier in question here had his time prior to the inception of this declaration. there are though agencies that work with these vets to ensure they receive the same benefits as the current Soldiers. Ask and you shall find.
I bet you I have more service time that you!
Doh tell me I eh serve I served and did so very well.
You talk about taking 3 months to get citizenship that is a jes come package young sweat!
[/quote]
Jess so yuh start defending your service.
Jess like that yuh go bet? Doh lose yuh money or pride now. I am not in competition with you bout time served and that has nothing to do with this.
wrong is wrong.
youing sweat? Thanks
-
the man moved to the US when he was a boy. This is where he developed his values and criminal behaviours.
I think Fishes said it - he is US grown. Deporting him is a convenient way to get rid of a problem that had its Genesis in the good ole USA. Is the US problem and they should deal with it. Similar deportations happen in Canada too.
Ah have to agree with TC. Bakes let me respond to your comment/questions: "Like veterans deserve some kinda pass compared to everybody else. What so blasted special about veterans?"
Well, they put dey life on the line for the nation. In mines (and many others, books), that is what make them special and deserving of special treatment.
There are so many Vets who would roll over in their grave while you enjoying the rewards of their works.
Give me a break with this jingoistic bullshit. The people who had no choice but to put their lives on hold and go fight in WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam is a different situation from today where Veterans make a conscious choice to go put their lives at risk, in exchange for a stable job, an opportunity for a career and benefits. Nobody, but NOBODY join the military to go play hero and "protect America" and "fight for liberty" and other such red state slogans. And if any of them do then they damn naive and foolish to let the military take advantage of the exuberance and pimp them like that.
By no means do I intend to diminish the hazards they face, nor diminish the personal sacrifices they are taking... but again, it's a conscious choice. Why stop at veterans? Peace Corps volunteers also serve their country. What about missionaries? In some cases their service might be considered a higher calling, and under even more hazardous conditions when you consider the hostility they encounter while proselytizing. What about cops and Firemen? They deserve a pass too?
Again I ask, what SO special about veterans that we must create a second tier of laws just for them. I won't even touch on the unconstitutionality of that proposal.
They are also considered service members and have most, MOST of the benefits we do. Not a Pass but understanding.
Yes there are many who join just to protect and defend the country. I have served and now assist many who even after losing a limb, sight or even both have decided to stay in and fight for what they believe. You call them Naive I call them brave Soldiers, comrades.
I joined willingly but, was always willing to do my job under what ever the circumstance. I volunteered for what has not caused my ailment. I would do it again. Even knowing the person that took my spot died doing it. Cut from a different cloth.
-
Bakes you defending the indefensible, exporting people back to small states cannot be right and you know it.
A man reach in the states when he was a baby of six months and live all his life there then commit a crime getting post back to where he born because he never get naturalised is the height of nonsense and irresponsibilty for the most powerfull and richest country on the planet.
This man doh know a soul in Grenada , Jamaica , St Vincent or where ever and get post back there to survive how?
It is bordering on a human rights crime to the man and the small state.
So you take my pack ah ass and ride out on it obviously your great USA can do no wrong
If I knew it "cannot be right" then I'd say so. I agree with it one hundred percent. If you have a child you responsible for that child until that child reaches the age of adulthood. Even if that child grow up in yuh cousin house across town, unless you forfeiting your parental rights or the child emancipates itself, then you remain responsible. It is no different in the case of the legal resident. That person (in many cases) opts to NOT become a US citizen, and until they do so then they properly belong to the nation of their birth, because such is their nationality. If I go England, Canada... or God forbid, somewhere in the middle-east and never change my nationality from where I born... no matter how long I live abroad when that host country fed up with me is only one place they could send me.
I am not at all unsympathetic to the strains that the "deportee" situation putting on the native countries, but people in/from the native countries aren't looking at the situation rationally or objectively. That person is a ward of your state whether you like it or not. Not because some nation allow him/her to live in their country does it mean that they are forever tethered to an individual who has sworn no allegiance to the host country, and who has no moral or civic ties to it. His/her ties are all social and can be severed by the individual whenever he/she wishes. Everyone want to bawl about how it is a "US grown problem", but that problem child was never the US'. Why should US taxpayers have to put up with the negative presence of an individual who rightfully belongs elsewhere?
Again, all dem criminal Vincentian and Grenadians running around Laventille... first opportunity allyuh get allyuh deporting them... AND YOU KNOW THAT.
-
I wonder if those deportees were ever taxpayers in the Us and when they were not in trouble were their tax dollars ever used to pay for the shit US born criminals did?
-
Why not lead a ,movement to get rid of Memorial day and veterans Day too.
http://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-40.htm
A) Because some did serve under heroic circumstances.
B) Some had no choice and HAD to fight, and actually fought to preserve liberty against real threats to "liberty, democracy and freedom"... like the Axis during WWII, not the trumped up enemies of Bush I and II.
C) It not that important to me for them to be recognized, same way I could go Miami and wine fuh Columbus Day instead of marching in opposition to the holiday.
Any more questions?
-
Why not lead a ,movement to get rid of Memorial day and veterans Day too.
http://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-40.htm
A) Because some did serve under heroic circumstances.
B) Some had no choice and HAD to fight, and actually fought to preserve liberty against real threats to "liberty, democracy and freedom"... like the Axis during WWII, not the trumped up enemies of Bush I and II.
C) It not that important to me for them to be recognized, same way I could go Miami and wine fuh Columbus Day instead of marching in opposition to the holiday.
Any more questions?
No more questuions, just a statement..yuh wrong on this point about deporting vets. and the powers that be agree with my position and they will change the law to support the veterans. that is why they making dem citizens when they enlist soon.
That is to protect them from the shit like deportation.
AGreen card holders who never served getting welfare...why the taxpayers putting up with that me he know.
-
Bake
This is de only part of yuh whole arguement dat ah cyah agree with yuh. I believe I deserve more that another. I served, did my job to the best of my ability, Placed my life on the line. Got retired medically due to circumstances beyond my control while trying to defend all that so many folks take for granted. I have a family and they don't have the full benefits of a father/husband because there are many things I cannot do due to my service time. I walk with a cane, cant stand or run cant lift my baby or girls if they hurt, cant breathe properly and take numerous mforms of medications and use different apparatuses every day to try and have some form of a normal life. I try to live as a model citizen and fight daily for the right of other Vets and Soldiers. Because we do deserve more than what we do get.
See this is the part I always disagree with. What were you defending? A political ideal? I mean come on man, again... I not trying to minimize what members of the armed forces go thru, but you were fighting because you were told to fight. You might have even agreed to fight, but is not like you were fighting here on home soil against an invading army. And I not saying you have to wait to be invaded to earn the right to "defend", but a lot of the battles that many after WWII serve in were ideological wars. US Government took issue with some political position of another government, both government tried to exert their ideological influence in some far off land and sent people children to fight over these ideological differences. They cloak all that b.s. under the mantle of "defending liberty".
I mean, Al Qaeda I understand... the military response was justified against attacks which first began abroad but which eventually found their way here in the US. We responded (insufficiently) by sending troops to Afghanistan to root them out.
What were the Iraqi vets defending? Iraqis never asked for Democracy.
And again... pay particular attention to what I actually stated "what is SO specia about vets". I never said that vets aren't special... but what is so special that they deserve to be treated differently under the law. THIS is my position, don't confuse it to think that I don't think vets deserve some degree of special treatment.
-
Bakes you defending the indefensible, exporting people back to small states cannot be right and you know it.
A man reach in the states when he was a baby of six months and live all his life there then commit a crime getting post back to where he born because he never get naturalised is the height of nonsense and irresponsibilty for the most powerfull and richest country on the planet.
This man doh know a soul in Grenada , Jamaica , St Vincent or where ever and get post back there to survive how?
It is bordering on a human rights crime to the man and the small state.
So you take my pack ah ass and ride out on it obviously your great USA can do no wrong
If I knew it "cannot be right" then I'd say so. I agree with it one hundred percent. If you have a child you responsible for that child until that child reaches the age of adulthood. Even if that child grow up in yuh cousin house across town, unless you forfeiting your parental rights or the child emancipates itself, then you remain responsible. It is no different in the case of the legal resident. That person (in many cases) opts to NOT become a US citizen, and until they do so then they properly belong to the nation of their birth, because such is their nationality. If I go England, Canada... or God forbid, somewhere in the middle-east and never change my nationality from where I born... no matter how long I live abroad when that host country fed up with me is only one place they could send me.
I am not at all unsympathetic to the strains that the "deportee" situation putting on the native countries, but people in/from the native countries aren't looking at the situation rationally or objectively. That person is a ward of your state whether you like it or not. Not because some nation allow him/her to live in their country does it mean that they are forever tethered to an individual who has sworn no allegiance to the host country, and who has no moral or civic ties to it. His/her ties are all social and can be severed by the individual whenever he/she wishes. Everyone want to bawl about how it is a "US grown problem", but that problem child was never the US'. Why should US taxpayers have to put up with the negative presence of an individual who rightfully belongs elsewhere?
Again, all dem criminal Vincentian and Grenadians running around Laventille... first opportunity allyuh get allyuh deporting them... AND YOU KNOW THAT.
Agree with 98%
-
No more questuions, just a statement..yuh wrong on this point about deporting vets. and the powers that be agree with my position and they will change the law to support the veterans. that is why they making dem citizens when they enlist soon.
That is to protect them from the shit like deportation.
AGreen card holders who never served getting welfare...why the taxpayers putting up with that me he know.
You calling me "wrong" without making yuh case (as you have all thread) is the same as you farting in the wind... means less than nothing to me. The "powers that be" CANNOT change this particular deportation law, unless they changing it for everybody. That much I guarantee you. They CANNOT say that non-citizen vets who break the law deserve to be treated differently than non-citizen civilians who break the law. The only way they can do that is to repeal the 5th and 14th Amendments.
Green card holders on welfare have more often than not paid into that welfare system, or are contributing in a positive manner to offset the strain that they are putting on social services. What are the criminals contributing?
-
No more questuions, just a statement..yuh wrong on this point about deporting vets. and the powers that be agree with my position and they will change the law to support the veterans. that is why they making dem citizens when they enlist soon.
That is to protect them from the shit like deportation.
AGreen card holders who never served getting welfare...why the taxpayers putting up with that me he know.
You calling me "wrong" without making yuh case (as you have all thread) is the same as you farting in the wind... means less than nothing to me. The "powers that be" CANNOT change this particular deportation law, unless they changing it for everybody. That much I guarantee you. They CANNOT say that non-citizen vets who break the law deserve to be treated differently than non-citizen civilians who break the law. The only way they can do that is to repeal the 5th and 14th Amendments.
Green card holders on welfare have more often than not paid into that welfare system, or are contributing in a positive manner to offset the strain that they are putting on social services. What are the criminals contributing?
Agree 95%
-
Bake
This is de only part of yuh whole arguement dat ah cyah agree with yuh. I believe I deserve more that another. I served, did my job to the best of my ability, Placed my life on the line. Got retired medically due to circumstances beyond my control while trying to defend all that so many folks take for granted. I have a family and they don't have the full benefits of a father/husband because there are many things I cannot do due to my service time. I walk with a cane, cant stand or run cant lift my baby or girls if they hurt, cant breathe properly and take numerous mforms of medications and use different apparatuses every day to try and have some form of a normal life. I try to live as a model citizen and fight daily for the right of other Vets and Soldiers. Because we do deserve more than what we do get.
See this is the part I always disagree with. What were you defending? A political ideal? I mean come on man, again... I not trying to minimize what members of the armed forces go thru, but you were fighting because you were told to fight. You might have even agreed to fight, but is not like you were fighting here on home soil against an invading army. And I not saying you have to wait to be invaded to earn the right to "defend", but a lot of the battles that many after WWII serve in were ideological wars. US Government took issue with some political position of another government, both government tried to exert their ideological influence in some far off land and sent people children to fight over these ideological differences. They cloak all that b.s. under the mantle of "defending liberty".
I mean, Al Qaeda I understand... the military response was justified against attacks which first began abroad but which eventually found their way here in the US. We responded (insufficiently) by sending troops to Afghanistan to root them out.
What were the Iraqi vets defending? Iraqis never asked for Democracy.
And again... pay particular attention to what I actually stated "what is SO specia about vets". I never said that vets aren't special... but what is so special that they deserve to be treated differently under the law. THIS is my position, don't confuse it to think that I don't think vets deserve some degree of special treatment.
You did not read all of my words. I said I volunteered. I was in Germany when the planes crashed. Before the second hit I was already on the phone with my commander.
We are saying the same but disagreeing on a few points. Perhaps it would serve you to read back into my posts. No where did I say I was in Iraq but you assumed this. What I did in the military I am proud of and never try to boast. My kids know very little but that their dad wore a uniform at a point in their early lives. My wife did not know the true extent of my retirement untill years after. So I will not try to defend it with you.
I never said a pass but understanding.
Please go back and read my posts.
-
Why not lead a ,movement to get rid of Memorial day and veterans Day too.
http://www.ejfi.org/DV/dv-40.htm
A) Because some did serve under heroic circumstances.
Some do even now
B) Some had no choice and HAD to fight, and actually fought to preserve liberty against real threats to "liberty, democracy and freedom"... like the Axis during WWII, not the trumped up enemies of Bush I and II.
ONce you are in you have no choice unly you make it yours. Perhaps your hatred for the ideals of the prior regime has you clouded.
C) It not that important to me for them to be recognized, same way I could go Miami and wine fuh Columbus Day instead of marching in opposition to the holiday.
Should be thanking them that you are able to go Miami and fete with out the fear of being bombed into pieces.
Any more questions?
-
Agree 95%
You did not read all of my words. I said I volunteered. I was in Germany when the plains crashed. Before the secound hit I was already on the phone with my commander.
We are saying the same but disagreeing on a few points. Perhaps it would serve you to read back into my posts. No where did I say I was in Iraq but you assumed this. What I did in the military I am proud of and never try to boast. My kids know very little but that their dad wore a uniform at a point in their early lives. My wife did not know the true extent of my retirement untill years after. So I will not try to defend it with you.
I never said a pass but understanding.
Please go back and read my posts.
I read your post from first word to last... I don't need to read it again. I am not making any assumptions, nor did I ever state that YOU served in Iraq. I mentioned Iraq because Desert Storm and Desert Shield are the only wars that most vets alive today know. Some served in Afghanistan, some in Vietnam, a few in Korea and a handful in WWII.
There have been skirmishes here and there but no real war outside of those. Those are the only operations where it could be said that the troops were "defending" something, and as argued above, it's hard to call all the activity a "defense" of the US. You assume that I was speaking specifically about your situation when in fact I was reference the collective experiences of veterans as they exist today.
-
No more questuions, just a statement..yuh wrong on this point about deporting vets. and the powers that be agree with my position and they will change the law to support the veterans. that is why they making dem citizens when they enlist soon.
That is to protect them from the shit like deportation.
AGreen card holders who never served getting welfare...why the taxpayers putting up with that me he know.
You calling me "wrong" without making yuh case (as you have all thread) is the same as you farting in the wind... means less than nothing to me. The "powers that be" CANNOT change this particular deportation law, unless they changing it for everybody. That much I guarantee you. They CANNOT say that non-citizen vets who break the law deserve to be treated differently than non-citizen civilians who break the law. The only way they can do that is to repeal the 5th and 14th Amendments.
Green card holders on welfare have more often than not paid into that welfare system, or are contributing in a positive manner to offset the strain that they are putting on social services. What are the criminals contributing?
I said changign the law to grant or confer citizenship upopn enlistment..go back and re-read...doh hold yuh nose is not me farting.
-
The smae people who volunteered to serve will be called upon to defend this nation in case of an invasion.
vets are not offorded the opportunity to discuss the merits of fighting based on political decisions..all wars are political creations, soldiers just acomplich the imperative. or try to and then come back home alive.
-
A) Some do even now
B) ONce you are in you have no choice unly you make it yours. Perhaps your hatred for the ideals of the prior regime has you clouded.
C) Should be thanking them that you are able to go Miami and fete with out the fear of being bombed into pieces.
Any more questions?
Doh make you and I fall out with this shit talk.
a) I have no doubt that some still serve under heroic circumstances... you just arguing for argument sake now. TC's question was why don't I oppose the holidays. I laid out why I don't oppose the holidays. What are you arguing... reasons why I should??
b) "Once you are in..." Exactly. And you have a choice about going in or not. Not every vet had a choice, and I for one think differently of the service of those who were forced to sacrifice, compared to those who volunteered for service. Under threat of compulsion many showed up and went and fought, even if in their hearts they would have preferred to be home with their families or pursuing their careers. They had to sacrifice those things against their will. They didn't take the coward's way out by going to Canada, or having thier daddies smooth their paths.
Service members today volunteer for the hazards. There is a calculation made by many who look at the low risk of fighting relative to the reward of enlisting. Today of course those risks are heightened, and some still like their odds so they gamble. For others like yourself there is no gamble, you don't mind fighting. Good for you. You still made a conscious choice to put the other things you could have been doing on hold to serve. Others didn't have that choice, they had their other opportunities foreclosed to them on account of the draft.
You are myopically looking at this within the paradigm of the Bush years... I am not. I am comparing draft service to post-draft service and acknowledging a difference. You don't have to like or agree with it.
c) Who was going to bomb me into pieces in Miami? Even if they were, domestic security isn't even under the purview of the military. Your best argument would be to try and extrapolate that "protection" all the way back to the troops serving in Afghanistan... who arguably fighting to 'keep us safe' from Al Qaeda.
-
By the way there are two Gulf era vets...1992 and present.
-
I said changign the law to grant or confer citizenship upopn enlistment..go back and re-read...doh hold yuh nose is not me farting.
Then maybe you need to learn to read for comprehension... I am not against changing the law for to confer citizenship for those who serve. The issue here ACCORDING TO YOU, in case you forget, is that he should not be deported. The only logical inference from this is that the 1996 law should not apply to him. That is what I have been arguing against... so again, tell me what I'm "wrong" about?
By the way there are two Gulf era vets...1992 and present.
Please learn to read... I addressed that.
-
I said changign the law to grant or confer citizenship upopn enlistment..go back and re-read...doh hold yuh nose is not me farting.
Then maybe you need to learn to read for comprehension... I am not against changing the law for to confer citizenship for those who serve. The issue here ACCORDING TO YOU, in case you forget, is that he should not be deported. The only logical inference from this is that the 1996 law should not apply to him. That is what I have been arguing against... so again, tell me what I'm "wrong" about?
I am a daft vet.
-
I am a daft vet.
That is evident from your posts. Anything else you'd like to share with the group?
-
Unfair law, unjust law, shit law. Needs to be struck down or amended.
But it is the law.
I knew of a fella born in JA, came Canada at the age of 3 or 4. Got into the wrong scence, got deported.
He was a stranger to his family in JA and had no friends. Was literally dumped at Manley.
A few months later he was stabbed to death.
A few years back immigration threatned to deport a 70-something year old Englishman who had been here before he was a teenager for smuggling guns. If you don't fix your business you can get in a lot of trouble.
In Canada even citizenship doh save yuh. You could be a day old when you get here but once you committ a crime your citizenship may be revoked and you can be booted out.
The excuse is because they were so 'generous' to admit you, you should be eternally grateful you are allowed to come up in their country and wipe their children's asses and clean their bedsheets.
-
allyuh fellas need to guh eat shit who talking bout unfair law. Immigration law is immigration law. dats why this is america and not trinidad or jamaica and everyone have to follow laws including politicians and police. Di man bruk di law I eh care if he is obama hornerman. ship he f**kin ass back. Allyuh think serving the military is a f**king easy way out? Ship him back felony is a felony simple facts dat. Immigration laws states " If you are not born american and is found guilty for a felony after serving your time you will be deported. end of story . deport his f**kin ass ley him guh plant yellow yam innah Jamaica.
war
-
:D yes sah War! :beermug:
-
allyuh fellas need to guh eat shit who talking bout unfair law. Immigration law is immigration law. dats why this is america and not trinidad or jamaica and everyone have to follow laws including politicians and police. Di man bruk di law I eh care if he is obama hornerman. ship he f**kin ass back. Allyuh think serving the military is a f**king easy way out? Ship him back felony is a felony simple facts dat. Immigration laws states " If you are not born american and is found guilty for a felony after serving your time you will be deported. end of story . deport his f**kin ass ley him guh plant yellow yam innah Jamaica.
war
If yuh refferring to my post give yuh head a shake and read again.
And doh play like North America is some perfect utopia, EVERYBODY is treated equally under the law.
-
As an OEF=OIF vet... someone who served the US as a green card holder at the time of deployment. I have to say no sympathy for this individual. It is a clear understanding that with your status you can and will face deportation if you break the law.... just because you went to a war does not give you grace...
Further more when I signed up... I took an oath to defend the US from all enemies foreign and domestic... He had a code of ethics to abide by as a soldier and a vet, he broke these codes... he is became part of the enemy when he decided to "distribute!"
"Climb to Glory" Hooah...
-
As an OEF=OIF vet... someone who served the US as a green card holder at the time of deployment. I have to say no sympathy for this individual. It is a clear understanding that with your status you can and will face deportation if you break the law.... just because you went to a war does not give you grace...
Further more when I signed up... I took an oath to defend the US from all enemies foreign and domestic... He had a code of ethics to abide by as a soldier and a vet, he broke these codes... he is became part of the enemy when he decided to "distribute!"
"Climb to Glory" Hooah...
yeah the law must be followed. too much A-holes in the community dealing and distributing.
but deporting criminals who spent their childhood or formative years over here is too much. especially when they have military training.
the caribbean and Jamaica especially doh need any more thugs running around, the burden on the system from home grown criminals is too much already
-
As an OEF=OIF vet... someone who served the US as a green card holder at the time of deployment. I have to say no sympathy for this individual. It is a clear understanding that with your status you can and will face deportation if you break the law.... just because you went to a war does not give you grace...
Further more when I signed up... I took an oath to defend the US from all enemies foreign and domestic... He had a code of ethics to abide by as a soldier and a vet, he broke these codes... he is became part of the enemy when he decided to "distribute!"
"Climb to Glory" Hooah...
yeah the law must be followed. too much A-holes in the community dealing and distributing.
but deporting criminals who spent their childhood or formative years over here is too much. especially when they have military training.
the caribbean and Jamaica especially doh need any more thugs running around, the burden on the system from home grown criminals is too much already
Zando leh me be frank eh... It's difficult to send and individual back to a country he or she has little or no ties with... after all if yuh live most of yuh life here... this is more of your country than yuh country of birth.
On de flip side... defending a country that you eh fully tied into is something that the individual has to get some commendation for. After all being a soldier is not yuh average nine tuh five... but at some point ah know he get that welcome to america letter or some body did inform him that being a permanent resident is a privilege and not a right... if yuh get ketch yuh going home.
I guess ah also little perturbed that is ah West Indian involved in drugs... because as a west indian dougla ah been getting that association with weed and coke since ah was a freshman in college..
(Once in college these white boys and koreans kept telling meh how ah know whey dey could find the good shit... and ah could give dem some because ah from de islands.... I grind up dry parsley, lemongrass, thai basil, hemp, tarragon and chardon benny (basically shyte ah find at the Korean mart) and give it to them to smoke under the guise that it was a special herb (the nooky toooky ah called it, and ah say it was shake out from meh large stash) ah mean they smoke it, even though after the first hit dey caught on that it was not weed, they still smoke it :rotfl:)
-
from recent news stories and talking to ppl there is an obvious strong push to deport these days and they are entitled to do so according to their laws. if u are a green card holder and don't get citizenship doh complain if yuh screw up and get deported (i assuming they can't deport non US born citizens...i don't know much about US immigration laws).
a few months ago one of my friends cousin get deported to trinidad after being here for donkey years on ah either ah drugs or gun scene....and my friend was saying de US wrong caus ehis cousin eh have much family back home (he end up living with his grandmother).
another friend represented a jamaican guy a few weeks in court (immigration issues), basically dis yardie here on a green card for 20+ years, it could be longer but i can't remember all the details...he get hold nuff time for selling drugs and guns so they were about to deport him...de guy have AIDS so his lawyer defence was persecution back home in Jamaica (basically yardies associate AIDS with battymen so de fellah having AIDS will be considered gay and dey real homophobic in Jamaica so his life is at risk)...end result, de fellah escape deportation.
so it appears that deportation might be at all an all time high so ppl on green card/schol visas etc need to be more careful.
as for vets, dey get several benefits because of their status (deservedly so) but making special laws that applies to them only is wrong.
-
And again... pay particular attention to what I actually stated "what is SO specia about vets". I never said that vets aren't special... but what is so special that they deserve to be treated differently under the law. THIS is my position, don't confuse it to think that I don't think vets deserve some degree of special treatment.
Give me a break with this jingoistic bullshit. The people who had no choice but to put their lives on hold and go fight in WWI, WWII, Korea and Vietnam is a different situation from today where Veterans make a conscious choice to go put their lives at risk, in exchange for a stable job, an opportunity for a career and benefits. Nobody, but NOBODY join the military to go play hero and "protect America" and "fight for liberty" and other such red state slogans. And if any of them do then they damn naive and foolish to let the military take advantage of the exuberance and pimp them like that.
By no means do I intend to diminish the hazards they face, nor diminish the personal sacrifices they are taking... but again, it's a conscious choice. Why stop at veterans? Peace Corps volunteers also serve their country. What about missionaries? In some cases their service might be considered a higher calling, and under even more hazardous conditions when you consider the hostility they encounter while proselytizing. What about cops and Firemen? They deserve a pass too?
Again I ask, what SO special about veterans that we must create a second tier of laws just for them. I won't even touch on the unconstitutionality of that proposal.
i was only addressing your question "what is so special about vets?". And I answered that. And how in the hell does "rolling in their graves" translate to "jingoism"?
However, you did clarifying your comment and I never argued that they should be granted special treatment treatment under the law. The law is the law but laws are not static and in this case, some (including me) would suggest a review of the immigration laws with respect to people who have been raised in the US, never naturalized and found guilty of criminal behaviour.
btw: many Canadian vets who fought in WWI and WWII volunteered and were not forced to go.
As much as I may be called a Pacifist, I have always maintained we need a military presence and the people who join the military know that they may be required to serve in combat. You might view a stint in the military as a stable job, but many will disagree with you.
-
allyuh fellas need to guh eat shit who talking bout unfair law. Immigration law is immigration law. dats why this is america and not trinidad or jamaica and everyone have to follow laws including politicians and police. Di man bruk di law I eh care if he is obama hornerman. ship he f**kin ass back. Allyuh think serving the military is a f**king easy way out? Ship him back felony is a felony simple facts dat. Immigration laws states " If you are not born american and is found guilty for a felony after serving your time you will be deported. end of story . deport his f**kin ass ley him guh plant yellow yam innah Jamaica.
war
If yuh refferring to my post give yuh head a shake and read again.
And doh play like North America is some perfect utopia, EVERYBODY is treated equally under the law.
No zan I eh refering to yur post dats why I didnt quote yu brother..
War
-
He should have started his naturalization the minute he left boot camp. I did it and it happened for me within 3 months.
-
allyuh fellas need to guh eat shit who talking bout unfair law. Immigration law is immigration law. dats why this is america and not trinidad or jamaica and everyone have to follow laws including politicians and police. Di man bruk di law I eh care if he is obama hornerman. ship he f**kin ass back. Allyuh think serving the military is a f**king easy way out? Ship him back felony is a felony simple facts dat. Immigration laws states " If you are not born american and is found guilty for a felony after serving your time you will be deported. end of story . deport his f**kin ass ley him guh plant yellow yam innah Jamaica.
war
If yuh refferring to my post give yuh head a shake and read again.
And doh play like North America is some perfect utopia, EVERYBODY is treated equally under the law.
No zan I eh refering to yur post dats why I didnt quote yu brother..
War
Cool breeze pardner :beermug:
-
i was only addressing your question "what is so special about vets?". And I answered that. And how in the hell does "rolling in their graves" translate to "jingoism"?
Actually you didn't answer anything, you only mouthed more of the same "they put their lives on the line for me" pablum that others were saying. Your statement is paramount to jingoism because of the overly emotional pandering to patriotism inherent in the unnecessary defense of veterans. "Unnecessary" because you read an attack into my statement that wasn't there. You claim I "elaborated" when in fact all I did was bolded the "so" in my earlier statement, since it clearly was being overlooked in a knee-jerk response to the perceived under-appreciation of the service of war veterans.
-
As an OEF=OIF vet... someone who served the US as a green card holder at the time of deployment. I have to say no sympathy for this individual. It is a clear understanding that with your status you can and will face deportation if you break the law.... just because you went to a war does not give you grace...
Further more when I signed up... I took an oath to defend the US from all enemies foreign and domestic... He had a code of ethics to abide by as a soldier and a vet, he broke these codes... he is became part of the enemy when he decided to "distribute!"
"Climb to Glory" Hooah...
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:
Dat is what I saying all this time. I guess ah shudda add some better language fuh some tuh understand.
Glad to see there arre so many Vets here. If any of you need some assistance ensuring you get your benefits please contact me. Even if you do not know if you are entitled.
-
He should have started his naturalization the minute he left boot camp. I did it and it happened for me within 3 months.
As I told them before I also got mine in 3mths. He slacked off and then mess up.
-
i was only addressing your question "what is so special about vets?". And I answered that. And how in the hell does "rolling in their graves" translate to "jingoism"?
Actually you didn't answer anything, you only mouthed more of the same "they put their lives on the line for me" pablum that others were saying. Your statement is paramount to jingoism because of the overly emotional pandering to patriotism inherent in the unnecessary defense of veterans. "Unnecessary" because you read an attack into my statement that wasn't there. You claim I "elaborated" when in fact all I did was bolded the "so" in my earlier statement, since it clearly was being overlooked in a knee-jerk response to the perceived under-appreciation of the service of war veterans.
my answer - you call it pablum, I call it respect
knee-jerk response - correct
perceived under-appreciation of the service of vets - yes that is what I perceived in your initial question "what's so special about vets?"
jingoism - nah man. Here is Oxford's definition of jingoism: n. Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism. My opinions about vets are not characterized by that definition.
Just curious - should we continue to celebrate holidays such as Remembrance Day or Memorial Day given that vets are not special?
-
i was only addressing your question "what is so special about vets?". And I answered that. And how in the hell does "rolling in their graves" translate to "jingoism"?
Actually you didn't answer anything, you only mouthed more of the same "they put their lives on the line for me" pablum that others were saying. Your statement is paramount to jingoism because of the overly emotional pandering to patriotism inherent in the unnecessary defense of veterans. "Unnecessary" because you read an attack into my statement that wasn't there. You claim I "elaborated" when in fact all I did was bolded the "so" in my earlier statement, since it clearly was being overlooked in a knee-jerk response to the perceived under-appreciation of the service of war veterans.
my answer - you call it pablum, I call it respect
knee-jerk response - correct
perceived under-appreciation of the service of vets - yes that is what I perceived in your initial question "what's so special about vets?"
jingoism - nah man. Here is Oxford's definition of jingoism: n. Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism. My opinions about vets are not characterized by that definition.
Just curious - should we continue to celebrate holidays such as Remembrance Day or Memorial Day given that vets are not special?
Pecs, I'm not aligning myself with any side here but I don't think Bakes is saying that vets aren't special...I think, for the most part, he respects and appreciates the efforts of those who have served and continue to serve in the armed forces. However, what I think he takes issue with is the grand feeling of entitlement that some vets adopt for performing a service that is now a voluntary undertaking...but I could be wrong...
-
Just curious - should we continue to celebrate holidays such as Remembrance Day or Memorial Day given that vets are not special?
I'm not sure of the relevance of this question... not only because it doesn't follow from any of my statements; but also because I already answered it in response to TC.
Pecs, I'm not aligning myself with any side here but I don't think Bakes is saying that vets aren't special...I think, for the most part, he respects and appreciates the efforts of those who have served and continue to serve in the armed forces. However, what I think he takes issue with is the grand feeling of entitlement that some vets adopt for performing a service that is now a voluntary undertaking...but I could be wrong...
Correct.... except my issue isn't with the Vets themselves, but with the argument here that the deportation law shouldn't apply to them as it does to everyone else. A lesser issue I have is with those who automatically annoint all veterans as "heros" based not on their actual deeds, but the mere fact that they wore a uniform. I don't necessarily think that's the case.
-
if a house is burning and I volunteer to go in and save 2 children does thast diminish my undertaking?
Because it is an all voluntary military is what makes it special, signing up to serve under no duress is much better than be forced to.
Steups.
And yes Vets should NOT be deported. That is something that should NOT happen to a veteran. Never should it happen.
The talk about taking 3 months to get naturalized is a new phenomomon. And it has happened only because non citizen military people were dying fighting for this country, (whatever the reason for the fighting) and THE people felt that they deserved the right to be citizens.
Before it took 3 years of military service before you could become a citizen 3 facking years! It has only been 3 months for those who have been recent enlistees.
Now recruiters tell enlistees "Join the military, be a citizen in 6 months!"
Even non green card holders, who have been here for 2 years are being afforded citizenship in 6 months if they enlist.
-
i was only addressing your question "what is so special about vets?". And I answered that. And how in the hell does "rolling in their graves" translate to "jingoism"?
Actually you didn't answer anything, you only mouthed more of the same "they put their lives on the line for me" pablum that others were saying. Your statement is paramount to jingoism because of the overly emotional pandering to patriotism inherent in the unnecessary defense of veterans. "Unnecessary" because you read an attack into my statement that wasn't there. You claim I "elaborated" when in fact all I did was bolded the "so" in my earlier statement, since it clearly was being overlooked in a knee-jerk response to the perceived under-appreciation of the service of war veterans.
my answer - you call it pablum, I call it respect
knee-jerk response - correct
perceived under-appreciation of the service of vets - yes that is what I perceived in your initial question "what's so special about vets?"
jingoism - nah man. Here is Oxford's definition of jingoism: n. Extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism. My opinions about vets are not characterized by that definition.
Just curious - should we continue to celebrate holidays such as Remembrance Day or Memorial Day given that vets are not special?
Pecs, I'm not aligning myself with any side here but I don't think Bakes is saying that vets aren't special...I think, for the most part, he respects and appreciates the efforts of those who have served and continue to serve in the armed forces. However, what I think he takes issue with is the grand feeling of entitlement that some vets adopt for performing a service that is now a voluntary undertaking...but I could be wrong...
I hear you and agree that some vets have a feeling of entitlement. I acknowledge that my response was knee-jerk, but it was difficult to resist responding the perceived generalization embodied in the question "what is so special about vets?" and the inference is that there is nothing special about vets. Here is the inside story to my reaction. Two months ago I had to render first aid to an 89 year old Veteran of WWII - he was RAF. He suffered a heart attack while we were having a conversation about the bombing of St. Paul's Cathedral in London. This is a man I admire greatly so when he gets painted with the same perceived brush, yes, I get emotional. That is how I am.
-
http://blogs.chron.com/immigration/archives/2010/01/post_337.html
Immigrant soldiers get fast track to citizenship
The Department of Homeland Security today announced new rules that reduce the time requirement for naturalization through military service from three years to one year for applicants who have served since Sept. 11.
DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano also said today that members of the U.S. Armed Forces reserves are now elgible for the quicker route to citizenship.
The U.S. has allowed immigrants who serve in the military a fast track to apply for citizenship. Ordinarily a legal immigrant has to be in the U.S. for at least five years before applying for naturalization. Up until this most recent rule change, immigrants serving in he armed forces had to wait three years before seeking citizenship
And Pecan, Vets are made promises by the country..serve and this is what will happen..only to come home and find it is not so...steups
Things change all the time, I am not sure which Vets have a "feeling of entitlement," They often fight for what was promised thats all.
-
http://blogs.chron.com/immigration/archives/2010/01/post_337.html
Immigrant soldiers get fast track to citizenship
The Department of Homeland Security today announced new rules that reduce the time requirement for naturalization through military service from three years to one year for applicants who have served since Sept. 11.
DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano also said today that members of the U.S. Armed Forces reserves are now elgible for the quicker route to citizenship.
The U.S. has allowed immigrants who serve in the military a fast track to apply for citizenship. Ordinarily a legal immigrant has to be in the U.S. for at least five years before applying for naturalization. Up until this most recent rule change, immigrants serving in he armed forces had to wait three years before seeking citizenship
And Pecan, Vets are made promises by the country..serve and this is what will happen..only to come home and find it is not so...steups
Things change all the time, I am not sure which Vets have a "feeling of entitlement," They often fight for what was promised thats all.
Speculation on my part based on anecdotal observations regarding the notion of entitlement as a god-given right (pun intended) that is permeating society - from unions to non-for-profit social groups to religious groups to special cause groups to any group who feel they entitled to whatever they feel entitled to.
So i conclude that the Vets are no different and there will be members who feel that because they serve the country, they should be entitled to more than is deserved.
I agree that vets should not be deported - but to do so, the laws have to change.
-
Bush had pass a bill fast tracking military immigrants naturalization paper work. I am to lazy to look it up, but it's there on the web somewhere, if anyone wants search for it.
-
Bush had pass a bill fast tracking military immigrants naturalization paper work. I am to lazy to look it up, but it's there on the web somewhere, if anyone wants search for it.
ahh boy, regardless eh, the man was pre Bush era...read the ting nah.
-
http://blogs.chron.com/immigration/archives/2010/01/post_337.html
Immigrant soldiers get fast track to citizenship
The Department of Homeland Security today announced new rules that reduce the time requirement for naturalization through military service from three years to one year for applicants who have served since Sept. 11.
DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano also said today that members of the U.S. Armed Forces reserves are now elgible for the quicker route to citizenship.
The U.S. has allowed immigrants who serve in the military a fast track to apply for citizenship. Ordinarily a legal immigrant has to be in the U.S. for at least five years before applying for naturalization. Up until this most recent rule change, immigrants serving in he armed forces had to wait three years before seeking citizenship
And Pecan, Vets are made promises by the country..serve and this is what will happen..only to come home and find it is not so...steups
Things change all the time, I am not sure which Vets have a "feeling of entitlement," They often fight for what was promised thats all.
Speculation on my part based on anecdotal observations regarding the notion of entitlement as a god-given right (pun intended) that is permeating society - from unions to non-for-profit social groups to religious groups to special cause groups to any group who feel they entitled to whatever they feel entitled to.
So i conclude that the Vets are no different and there will be members who feel that because they serve the country, they should be entitled to more than is deserved.
I agree that vets should not be deported - but to do so, the laws have to change.
The law will change ..watch and see.
-
Bush had pass a bill fast tracking military immigrants naturalization paper work. I am to lazy to look it up, but it's there on the web somewhere, if anyone wants search for it.
ahh boy, regardless eh, the man was pre Bush era...read the ting nah.
I was just pointing out the bill for whoever was interestedin knowing about the new rule being military. I understand what yuh saying about him being pre bush era.
-
since 2002 Bush was preaching dat shit, and it is not uniform at al, you lucky 3 months it have men in Iraq on dey 3rd tour and dem eh get their own yet!
-
btw... the law calling for deportation of non-citizens for criminal activity goes back almost 100 yrs to 1917. All throughout its history deportation was employed in cases involving first "moral turpitude", later distilled down to primarily cases involving drugs. Conviction of anything but posession of marijuana for personal use (typically less than 30 grams) meant deportation.
Almost 100 yrs...
This fella hardly have a leg to stand on.
-
I think the article fails to address some things and here is something that is a misconception... "we have this notion that vets have seen combat and put themselves in harms way." This is a huge misconception...
Here are some example of my friends who are veterans, and veterans of foreign wars.
Joseph G - vet deployed in 2001, attached to the maryland national guard, to defend Andrews Air Force Base. Never seen Combat.
Daniel S- vet, deployed in 2004 to The Persian Gulf, attached to the Navy, stationed the whole time on the USS Kittyhawk.... aka the shytty kitty.
John L. vet, Deployed to Iraq, attached to the army, in baqubah, karbala serviced Humvees and military equipment, closest he came to battle was a mortar round exploding at the gates of his camp... stationed 2 tours there.
Daft- Vet attached to the Army, fought in many battles including Operation Anaconda, Operation Phantom Thunder just to name a few...
My point is there are many forms of Veterans... what kind is this guy... what led him to make these choices. I know that transitioning into civilian life is not easy... is not like yuh could put on a resume proficient in the A-1, M9, or M82... to me this article is too open-ended. Until I know more details, the fact that he is a vet is just too much sensationalism...
-
I think the article fails to address some things and here is something that is a misconception... "we have this notion that vets have seen combat and put themselves in harms way." This is a huge misconception...
Here are some example of my friends who are veterans, and veterans of foreign wars.
Joseph G - vet deployed in 2001, attached to the maryland national guard, to defend Andrews Air Force Base. Never seen Combat.
Daniel S- vet, deployed in 2004 to The Persian Gulf, attached to the Navy, stationed the whole time on the USS Kittyhawk.... aka the shytty kitty.
John L. vet, Deployed to Iraq, attached to the army, in baqubah, karbala serviced Humvees and military equipment, closest he came to battle was a mortar round exploding at the gates of his camp... stationed 2 tours there.
Daft- Vet attached to the Army, fought in many battles including Operation Anaconda, Operation Phantom Thunder just to name a few...
My point is there are many forms of Veterans... what kind is this guy... what led him to make these choices. I know that transitioning into civilian life is not easy... is not like yuh could put on a resume proficient in the A-1, M9, or M82... to me this article is too open-ended. Until I know more details, the fact that he is a vet is just too much sensationalism...
where a sailor, soldier or marine is deployed to, or stationed or the action he/she faces is not the issue.
steups.
did you know where you would have been going? What your next assignment would have been?
I know soldiers who never left Ft. Sam, San Antonio or Bethesda yet served with great distinction, just ask the soldiers they saved, helped or operated on.
I was in the Navy, said f**k this fighting shit on land, I thought on a ship, dem eh coming close to me), f**k soldier shit, I going to school, and dat is dat, even on a ship you could get college in de Navy..steups..ended up training with 101st Airborne and den end up for 5 years with the FMF, (Marines)doing just that.
shit post.
when you enlist you enlist for the god or the bad.
You acting like you coulda fight, and stay safe, be fed, have medicine etc if yuh did not have support services, ask dem Iraqia from 1991-1992 if dey did feel de need to have de support lol
-
And what make de Kitty Hawk shitty? Dey do Desert Storm and did it well, is not the ships fault it was a west Pac vessel?
-
I think the article fails to address some things and here is something that is a misconception... "we have this notion that vets have seen combat and put themselves in harms way." This is a huge misconception...
Here are some example of my friends who are veterans, and veterans of foreign wars.
Joseph G - vet deployed in 2001, attached to the maryland national guard, to defend Andrews Air Force Base. Never seen Combat.
Daniel S- vet, deployed in 2004 to The Persian Gulf, attached to the Navy, stationed the whole time on the USS Kittyhawk.... aka the shytty kitty.
John L. vet, Deployed to Iraq, attached to the army, in baqubah, karbala serviced Humvees and military equipment, closest he came to battle was a mortar round exploding at the gates of his camp... stationed 2 tours there.
Daft- Vet attached to the Army, fought in many battles including Operation Anaconda, Operation Phantom Thunder just to name a few...
My point is there are many forms of Veterans... what kind is this guy... what led him to make these choices. I know that transitioning into civilian life is not easy... is not like yuh could put on a resume proficient in the A-1, M9, or M82... to me this article is too open-ended. Until I know more details, the fact that he is a vet is just too much sensationalism...
where a sailor, soldier or marine is deployed to, or stationed or the action he/she faces is not the issue.
steups.
did you know where you would have been going? What your next assignment would have been?
I know soldiers who never left Ft. Sam, San Antonio or Bethesda yet served with great distinction, just ask the soldiers they saved, helped or operated on.
I was in the Navy, said f**k this fighting shit on land, I thought on a ship, dem eh coming close to me), f**k soldier shit, I going to school, and dat is dat, even on a ship you could get college in de Navy..steups..ended up training with 101st Airborne and den end up for 5 years with the FMF, (Marines)doing just that.
shit post.
when you enlist you enlist for the god or the bad.
You acting like you coulda fight, and stay safe, be fed, have medicine etc if yuh did not have support services, ask dem Iraqia from 1991-1992 if dey did feel de need to have de support lol
Aye, Aye I saying veterans come in different forms, and to clear up the notion that not all vets does take bullet... but their presence is paramount wherever dey serve.
Me eh name the Carrier dat bredda, sailors aboard the ship use to call it dat...
Good to see yuh train with the 101st, did many runs with the 502nd, bravo co.
-
And what make de Kitty Hawk shitty? Dey do Desert Storm and did it well, is not the ships fault it was a west Pac vessel?
I been on there for a month before going to the Lincoln..it's just a nick name sailors gave it , because it was just that "shytty" everything was old on that ship compare to the Lincoln and other ship in the fleet. It's decommissioned now and it's at the Bremerton naval base an hour drive from where I live.
-
And what make de Kitty Hawk shitty? Dey do Desert Storm and did it well, is not the ships fault it was a west Pac vessel?
I been on there for a month before going to the Lincoln..it's just a nick name sailors gave it , because it was just that "shytty" everything was old on that ship compare to the Lincoln and other ship in the fleet. It's decommissioned now and it's at the Bremerton naval base an hour drive from where I live.
yeh it was old dais it there was a move t kep it as ready reserve fleet..wonder if dey ever do dat