Soca Warriors Online Discussion Forum

Sports => Football => Topic started by: Tallman on July 18, 2011, 04:53:37 PM

Title: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Tallman on July 18, 2011, 04:53:37 PM
TTFF business must be placed in the open
By Lincoln Phillips (T&T Guardian)


Taking T&T football forward - Part 2

When asked what would I do if given the opportunity to make policy for the TTFF, the first thing I say is to take the business of the TTFF out into the open. A clearly defined constitution would be written and federation matters should be discussed under the plain sight of anyone who wishes to view the proceedings. Agendas and minutes of board meetings would be posted on the TTFF website and meetings themselves would be streamed online. At the same time, the first order of external business would be to pay the 2006 World Cup and 2010 Digicel Cup players and in conjunction with correcting that injustice, the ledger of the TTFF should become public record complete with clearly defined revenue streams and expenditures.

Such should be among the first moves to help lift the veil of secrecy and lack of accountability that has become an all too familiar trademark of the TTFF and its more senior policy makers. Most important, I would like to see a new ethos that embraces good governance over cultivation of power. Once establishing a firm, transparent, and efficient business model, attention should be turned to implementing a technical programme that reaches out to other stakeholders of football such as the professional clubs, the SSFL, and government. Coaching development protocols that seek to promote development on the grassroots level as well as on the elite level should be put forth and supported within the first year of a new federation regime. Extensive player identification programme networks to scout and discover any player eligible to represent T&T must also be a part of a player development programme that includes a national player academy as the centerpiece of its technical development system.

Finally, it would do our football well to establish T&T as a destination point for international club teams for exhibition matches and training camps so that our local players will be exposed to the best possible level of competition. All of these endeavours must be clearly presented to the public through digital and traditional media means. It would also do the federation well to help provide PFL and Super League franchises; including the players, marketing assistance to help create reasons why the public should come and support local football. Whether establishing relationships with communities located within close proximity to their club or taking better care to cultivate and craft their own skills, the local professional footballer must realise they are their own and the league’s best salesmen. For the most part this does not exist and match attendances reflect the public indifference.

None of this can be accomplished without a clear mandate from a public that demands a lot from its leaders as well as themselves. Once such a social compact is created, the imbalance that currently exists within our football will soon be fixed. However, until leaders and institutions are continuously held accountable to uphold their end of the bargain, the public will only have themselves to blame and we may be forever relegated to the abyss of lowered expectations when the world hears our name. That would be a shame because of what we have shown we can do.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Socapro on July 18, 2011, 05:05:39 PM
:thumbsup:

Ah like this!

Like LP just read Kicker's critical post and asked Tallman to post this or what?  ;)
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: DeSoWa on July 18, 2011, 05:07:34 PM
Just as I thought!  :beermug:

Big Up!
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: tempo on July 18, 2011, 05:09:00 PM
I understand this was part of the same article that was printed earlier. The Guardian decided to publish it in two parts. But it is funny how it seemed to address Kicker's complaints.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Socapro on July 18, 2011, 05:15:13 PM
I understand this was part of the same article that was printed earlier. The Guardian decided to publish it in two parts. But it is funny how it seemed to address Kicker's complaints.

Kicker jumped the gun but this part 2 of LP's article simply kicks Kicker's initial complaints to the curb!!   :devil:
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Cocorite on July 18, 2011, 05:21:53 PM
TTFF business must be placed in the open
By Lincoln Phillips (T&T Guardian)


Taking T&T football forward - Part 2

None of this can be accomplished without a clear mandate from a public that demands a lot from its leaders as well as themselves. Once such a social compact is created, the imbalance that currently exists within our football will soon be fixed. However, until leaders and institutions are continuously held accountable to uphold their end of the bargain, the public will only have themselves to blame and we may be forever relegated to the abyss of lowered expectations when the world hears our name. That would be a shame because of what we have shown we can do.


This is a cultural problem. We probably need a "MLK" type leader to accomplish this. But he is spot on.

Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Football supporter on July 18, 2011, 06:58:39 PM
I don't believe TTFF board meetings should be open to the public, however, the minutes should be available for view. Certainly, accounts should be published yearly and there should be an annual public inquiry hosted by the Minister of Sport to question the financial and philisophical decisions made.

The rest makes sense to me. We have 4 seperate entities running football: TTFF, Pro League, Super League and schools. On TTFF board there should be an appointed liaison for all 3 league systems.

We need to consolidate our football and streamline the path from schools to professionalism.

Crazy thing is, the systems in place, it just needs people under the ages of 80 to streamline it. You have a strong school system. You have a competent semi professional league. You have a potentially good professional league. Just stop them working seperately. Stop promoting yourselves and start to promote T&T football as one entity. You also need a TTFF board member responsible for facilities and maintenence. Then you could think about bringing over foreign club teams. Finally you need a TTFF marketing/business manager to make dollars & cents decisions based on making a profit and sustainability, who would also work with the leagues to income/sponsorship could trickle down.

So you would create a package where, say, BP would be main sponsor of the National Team, sponsor the FA Cup and a School trophy at a cost of, say $2 million per year. Then Digicel would be official T&T communications provider, sponsor Pro League, sponsor Super League cup and maybe the National Schools Academy (which would be the base for the U15's, U17's, U19's) This would also have a ProLeague/Super League draft each year a la NFL)

And you just continue to create packages for sponsors that benefit all tiers including girls soccer. A uniform provider, soft drinks provider (companies like SM Jaleel could attach a different brand to each tier, such as a power drink to the seniors, right down to Chubbys for the under 9's)

This can be done. But the old russian/FIFA style of old man governance must be replaced by fresh younger talent and supported initially by govt.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Socapro on July 18, 2011, 07:06:35 PM
I don't believe TTFF board meetings should be open to the public, however, the minutes should be available for view. Certainly, accounts should be published yearly and there should be an annual public inquiry hosted by the Minister of Sport to question the financial and philisophical decisions made.

The rest makes sense to me. We have 4 seperate entities running football: TTFF, Pro League, Super League and schools. On TTFF board there should be an appointed liaison for all 3 league systems.

We need to consolidate our football and streamline the path from schools to professionalism.

Crazy thing is, the systems in place, it just needs people under the ages of 80 to streamline it. You have a strong school system. You have a competent semi professional league. You have a potentially good professional league. Just stop them working seperately. Stop promoting yourselves and start to promote T&T football as one entity. You also need a TTFF board member responsible for facilities and maintenence. Then you could think about bringing over foreign club teams. Finally you need a TTFF marketing/business manager to make dollars & cents decisions based on making a profit and sustainability, who would also work with the leagues to income/sponsorship could trickle down.

So you would create a package where, say, BP would be main sponsor of the National Team, sponsor the FA Cup and a School trophy at a cost of, say $2 million per year. Then Digicel would be official T&T communications provider, sponsor Pro League, sponsor Super League cup and maybe the National Schools Academy (which would be the base for the U15's, U17's, U19's) This would also have a ProLeague/Super League draft each year a la NFL)

And you just continue to create packages for sponsors that benefit all tiers including girls soccer. A uniform provider, soft drinks provider (companies like SM Jaleel could attach a different brand to each tier, such as a power drink to the seniors, right down to Chubbys for the under 9's)

This can be done. But the old russian/FIFA style of old man governance must be replaced by fresh younger talent and supported initially by govt.

Niceness!!
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: kicker on July 18, 2011, 07:48:43 PM
Kicker jumped the gun but this part 2 of LP's article simply kicks Kicker's initial complaints to the curb!!   :devil:

Not really eh but arrite arrite haha.. he startin' tuh talk tuh meh lol...Keep it coming  ;D

Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: dreamer on July 18, 2011, 07:50:10 PM
I don't believe TTFF board meetings should be open to the public, however, the minutes should be available for view. Certainly, accounts should be published yearly and there should be an annual public inquiry hosted by the Minister of Sport to question the financial and philisophical decisions made.

The rest makes sense to me. We have 4 seperate entities running football: TTFF, Pro League, Super League and schools. On TTFF board there should be an appointed liaison for all 3 league systems.

We need to consolidate our football and streamline the path from schools to professionalism.

Crazy thing is, the systems in place, it just needs people under the ages of 80 to streamline it. You have a strong school system. You have a competent semi professional league. You have a potentially good professional league. Just stop them working seperately. Stop promoting yourselves and start to promote T&T football as one entity. You also need a TTFF board member responsible for facilities and maintenence. Then you could think about bringing over foreign club teams. Finally you need a TTFF marketing/business manager to make dollars & cents decisions based on making a profit and sustainability, who would also work with the leagues to income/sponsorship could trickle down.

So you would create a package where, say, BP would be main sponsor of the National Team, sponsor the FA Cup and a School trophy at a cost of, say $2 million per year. Then Digicel would be official T&T communications provider, sponsor Pro League, sponsor Super League cup and maybe the National Schools Academy (which would be the base for the U15's, U17's, U19's) This would also have a ProLeague/Super League draft each year a la NFL)

And you just continue to create packages for sponsors that benefit all tiers including girls soccer. A uniform provider, soft drinks provider (companies like SM Jaleel could attach a different brand to each tier, such as a power drink to the seniors, right down to Chubbys for the under 9's)

This can be done. But the old russian/FIFA style of old man governance must be replaced by fresh younger talent and supported initially by govt.

Yuh have it cork soldyah
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Deeks on July 18, 2011, 08:17:06 PM
All I know is that TTFF should have term limits. 2 four year term and out.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: kicker on July 18, 2011, 08:21:47 PM
Lincoln is suggesting a public company approach to the TTFF... Idealistic I suppose...Also very costly...Football governance and development and how it's intertwined with everything else pertaining to T&T's social construct is an area that I'm very passionate about. I think yuh actually have to peel the onion back a layer (or a few layers) deeper than what Lincoln is talking about here... I think there's a large disconnect between what we want/expect from our governing authorities, and what is most reasonable to expect given the society we're dealing with...It's tough to propose model solutions to an audience that doesn't appreciate the value of the model, and probably isn't equipped to sustain it....which is why I hinted in my rant in the other thread, that we need a reform on a greater level... one that will steer us in the direction of becoming a 1st class nation...and then our football will benefit from that....The beauty of it is that I think they will work hand in hand so that one doesn't have to be achieved in absolute before the other, and each can help to propel the other.  

A common perspective that the shortcomings of our football are reflective of the shortcomings in our society, but then when we come to address football issues, we talk about things that for the most part pertain directly to football- Yuh can't have it both ways...which is why I said earlier that it's easy to be visionary in the diagnosis and myopic in the treatment.

Keep this discussion going...      
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: tempo on July 18, 2011, 08:36:37 PM
Lincoln is suggesting a public company approach to the TTFF... Idealistic I suppose...Also very costly...Football governance and development and how it's intertwined with everything else pertaining to T&T's social construct is an area that I'm very passionate about. I think yuh actually have to peel the onion back a layer (or a few layers) deeper than what Lincoln is talking about here... I think there's a large disconnect between what we want/expect from our governing authorities, and what is most reasonable to expect given the society we're dealing with...It's tough to propose model solutions to an audience that doesn't appreciate the value of the model, and probably isn't equipped to sustain it....which is why I hinted in my rant in the other thread, that we need a reform on a greater level... one that will steer us in the direction of becoming a 1st class nation...and then our football will benefit from that....The beauty of it is that I think they will work hand in hand so that one doesn't have to be achieved in absolute before the other, and each can help to propel the other.  

A common perspective that the shortcomings of our football are reflective of the shortcomings in our society, but then when we come to address football issues, we talk about things that for the most part pertain directly to football- Yuh can't have it both ways...which is why I said earlier that it's easy to be visionary in the diagnosis and myopic in the treatment.

Keep this discussion going...      

I think the public model in a mold of Barcelona can be an interesting approach to consider for a restructured TTFF. In many ways, it may actually appeal to non-locals especially if the prospectus is trustworthy. More Than A National Passion can be our version of Mas Que Un Club.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: truetrini on July 18, 2011, 08:42:26 PM
Lincoln is suggesting a public company approach to the TTFF... Idealistic I suppose...Also very costly...Football governance and development and how it's intertwined with everything else pertaining to T&T's social construct is an area that I'm very passionate about. I think yuh actually have to peel the onion back a layer (or a few layers) deeper than what Lincoln is talking about here... I think there's a large disconnect between what we want/expect from our governing authorities, and what is most reasonable to expect given the society we're dealing with...It's tough to propose model solutions to an audience that doesn't appreciate the value of the model, and probably isn't equipped to sustain it....which is why I hinted in my rant in the other thread, that we need a reform on a greater level... one that will steer us in the direction of becoming a 1st class nation...and then our football will benefit from that....The beauty of it is that I think they will work hand in hand so that one doesn't have to be achieved in absolute before the other, and each can help to propel the other.  

A common perspective that the shortcomings of our football are reflective of the shortcomings in our society, but then when we come to address football issues, we talk about things that for the most part pertain directly to football- Yuh can't have it both ways...which is why I said earlier that it's easy to be visionary in the diagnosis and myopic in the treatment.

Keep this discussion going...      

Without the suggested transparency, given the history of the TTFA/TTFF what else?  How do you garner support and confidence and corporate input without such a stance?

IT appears that you are now pointing out our character flaws as a society..lol

Do you believe that sport can be a catalyst for change in a society?  Do you believe that sport can impact positively on young people?

You want football to benefit from a change in our society as a whole, yet you are prepared to distance yourself from the impact football can have on our society?

Lincoln started the letter by stating he was pointing out the way to move/propel football in T&T forward.   He stated that football organization is a microcosm of our society.   You demand peeling the onion layers off, and delving deeper...now you starting to sound philosophical...and waxing cliches
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Jack Horner on July 19, 2011, 05:58:14 AM
Phillips get mouth now. All the time the man use to run and hide in my back office.

He writing more articles than he did when he was Technical Director.

I want Lincoln to open his books first, compare the 7 years he worked here as TD, took tax payers money and see if it equals to the amount of work he did for it. Did he earn it, I doubt he did.

He was part of my regime, then he smelt the rat and retired early before getting the axe and now he running off his mouth. All the time he was silent like a mouse.

Tell Lincoln to justify his salary vs his work he did here.

Jack will raise again !!!
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: truetrini on July 19, 2011, 06:23:46 AM
Phillips get mouth now. All the time the man use to run and hide in my back office.

He writing more articles than he did when he was Technical Director.

I want Lincoln to open his books first, compare the 7 years he worked here as TD, took tax payers money and see if it equals to the amount of work he did for it. Did he earn it, I doubt he did.

He was part of my regime, then he smelt the rat and retired early before getting the axe and now he running off his mouth. All the time he was silent like a mouse.

Tell Lincoln to justify his salary vs his work he did here.

Jack will raise again !!!

First of all, you are talking unmitigated ta-ta.  Lincoln never retired nor did he resign.  His contract with the TTFF was not renewed based on the so-called facts that there was no funding to renew his contract!

Go back into your corner yuh blasted asswipe.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Jack Horner on July 19, 2011, 06:40:20 AM
First of all, you are talking unmitigated ta-ta.  Lincoln never retired nor did he resign.  His contract with the TTFF was not renewed based on the so-called facts that there was no funding to renew his contract!

Go back into your corner yuh blasted asswipe.

I am sorry if I offended you Lincoln defender.

But Sportt was paying Lincoln not the TTFF, they are not broke, get your facts straight, you are talking none sense and words are flowing out your ass like water from a stand pipe.

Lincoln was not going to be offered a renewed contract and knew that. He saw out his contract and then left for the US.

I hear Lincoln taking credit for T&T teams qualifying for the World Cup, youth and senior I wonder if he will take credit for the team failure too.

Jack will raise again !!!!!!
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: elan on July 19, 2011, 06:48:25 AM
First of all, you are talking unmitigated ta-ta.  Lincoln never retired nor did he resign.  His contract with the TTFF was not renewed based on the so-called facts that there was no funding to renew his contract!

Go back into your corner yuh blasted asswipe.

I am sorry if I offended you Lincoln defender.

But Sportt was paying Lincoln not the TTFF, they are not broke, get your facts straight, you are talking none sense and words are flowing out your ass like water from a stand pipe.

Lincoln was not going to be offered a renewed contract and knew that. He saw out his contract and then left for the US.

I hear Lincoln taking credit for T&T teams qualifying for the World Cup, youth and senior I wonder if he will take credit for the team failure too.

Jack will raise again !!!!!!

You still talking mess, because if the TTFF eh paying him why must he open his book before the TTFF. He have nothing for the TTFF because his employers were the government. His reviews must/should fall under the MoS, not the tiefing TTFF.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Bakes on July 19, 2011, 06:59:26 AM
I am sorry if I offended you Lincoln defender.

But Sportt was paying Lincoln not the TTFF, they are not broke, get your facts straight, you are talking none sense and words are flowing out your ass like water from a stand pipe.

Lincoln was not going to be offered a renewed contract and knew that. He saw out his contract and then left for the US.

I hear Lincoln taking credit for T&T teams qualifying for the World Cup, youth and senior I wonder if he will take credit for the team failure too.

Jack will raise again !!!!!!

Ah thought yuh say he "smelt the rat and retired early before getting the axe"?  If yuh going to talk shit then at least try yuh best to keep yuh story straight.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: truetrini on July 19, 2011, 07:24:21 AM
Not only that..THE CONTRACT Lincoln signed was with the TTFF and lets get the facts straight..the TTFF ALWAYS paid Lincoln Phillips...always.

The SPORTT gave the TTFF a development fund and out of that the TTFF paid Phllips.

Every check he ever got wa from the TTFF.

Now that YOU have the facts go back in yuh hole.


They DID not renew his contract..he eh leave, he eh resign nutten....

Jack like Crix...he eh rising he fall flat.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: kicker on July 19, 2011, 07:28:04 AM
Without the suggested transparency, given the history of the TTFA/TTFF what else?  How do you garner support and confidence and corporate input without such a stance?

IT appears that you are now pointing out our character flaws as a society..lol

Do you believe that sport can be a catalyst for change in a society?  Do you believe that sport can impact positively on young people?

You want football to benefit from a change in our society as a whole, yet you are prepared to distance yourself from the impact football can have on our society?

Lincoln started the letter by stating he was pointing out the way to move/propel football in T&T forward.   He stated that football organization is a microcosm of our society.   You demand peeling the onion layers off, and delving deeper...now you starting to sound philosophical...and waxing cliches

What philosophical cliches I waxin' partner? I don't think you read me carefully - never once did deny societal flaws...and the answer to all 3 of your questions is yes (IMO)... and if you check what I wrote in the other thread I said that the two go hand in hand and can propel eachother.... Again I not disagreeing with what he's saying.  I think the question (and where there can be differing views) is where is the best starting point... I like the idea of the public model- just saying it's costly...and idealistic given the parties involved...like it or not, that's the reality.  What's the point in discussing stuff like this if we can't honestly acknolwedge the challenges. I'm just adding my thoughts to it- I think your high regard for LP making yuh a lil defensive.  You're addressing my post as if I'm claiming to have all the answers...If I doh just nod my head and applaud then everything I say is subject to some kinda berating?   What's the point of a discussion....
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: truetrini on July 19, 2011, 07:30:52 AM
Without the suggested transparency, given the history of the TTFA/TTFF what else?  How do you garner support and confidence and corporate input without such a stance?

IT appears that you are now pointing out our character flaws as a society..lol

Do you believe that sport can be a catalyst for change in a society?  Do you believe that sport can impact positively on young people?

You want football to benefit from a change in our society as a whole, yet you are prepared to distance yourself from the impact football can have on our society?

Lincoln started the letter by stating he was pointing out the way to move/propel football in T&T forward.   He stated that football organization is a microcosm of our society.   You demand peeling the onion layers off, and delving deeper...now you starting to sound philosophical...and waxing cliches

What philosophical cliches I waxin' partner? Again I not disagreeing with what he's saying. I like the idea of the public model- just saying it's costly...and idealistic given the parties involved...like it or not, that's the reality.  What's the point in discussing stuff like this if we can't honestly acknolwedge the challenges. I'm just adding my thoughts to it- I think your high regard for LP making yuh a lil defensive.  You're addressing my post as if I'm claiming to have all the answers...If I doh just nod my head and applaud then everything I say is subject to some kinda berating?   What's the point of a discussion....

lol I was merely pointing out the inconsistencies of your comments..no defense here.  Lincoln is a big man if he so desires he can come here and defend himself..I..I am well aware that you have agreed with Lincoln, just wondering why you saying the same thing and yet say is cliches and philosophical this and that...dais all
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Deeks on July 19, 2011, 07:37:22 AM
TC,
     I still don't see your point. He was paid by TTFF thru SPORTT. OK. TTFF got tax payers money to pay him. Because of LP name and stature the TTFF would not try to short change him. But the fact is LP could not get  his job done effectively because he was kept at arms length by the TTFF head honcho. It appears jack did not care either way. LP salary not coming from his pocket. It was gov't money. Now he in gov't he could dictate the terms. But all this is speculation on our part. Only jack and LP know the real story.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: kicker on July 19, 2011, 07:39:37 AM

lol I was merely pointing out the inconsistencies of your comments..no defense here.  Lincoln is a big man if he so desires he can come here and defend himself..I..I am well aware that you have agreed with Lincoln, just wondering why you saying the same thing and yet say is cliches and philosophical this and that...dais all

Not inconsistency - just differ in where we think the ideal starting point is.  I never opposed transparency of the TTFF, and I never suggested that achieving it wouldn't have a positive effect on the bigger picture.  I just pointed out an obvious challenge and suggested that maybe the root of problems such as a lack of transparency lies deeper in our societal flaws, and hence may require addressing on a level beneath just changing the by-laws of the organization.  
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: truetrini on July 19, 2011, 07:41:07 AM

lol I was merely pointing out the inconsistencies of your comments..no defense here.  Lincoln is a big man if he so desires he can come here and defend himself..I..I am well aware that you have agreed with Lincoln, just wondering why you saying the same thing and yet say is cliches and philosophical this and that...dais all

Not inconsistency - just differ in where we think the ideal starting point is.  I never opposed transparency of the TTFF, and I never suggested that achieving it wouldn't have a positive effect on the bigger picture.  I just pointed out an obvious challenge and suggested that maybe the root of problems such as a lack of transparency lies deeper in our societal flaws, and hence may require addressing on a level beneath just changing the by-laws of the organization.  

I was referring to your comments that we have societal flaws and before that was critical of Lincoln for suggesting the same, saying you have heard it all before etc.  That is my point
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: truetrini on July 19, 2011, 07:43:51 AM
TC,
     I still don't see your point. He was paid by TTFF thru SPORTT. OK. TTFF got tax payers money to pay him. Because of LP name and stature the TTFF would not try to short change him. But the fact is LP could not get  his job done effectively because he was kept at arms length by the TTFF head honcho. It appears jack did not care either way. LP salary not coming from his pocket. It was gov't money. Now he in gov't he could dictate the terms. But all this is speculation on our part. Only jack and LP know the real story.

What is your point?   The TTFF hired Lincoln, and however they got funded THEY paid him!  He was never an employee of the GORT...never.  Always a TTFF employee....  For all the years the TTFF has been in operation how did they fund their programs?  Yuh feel is not the T&T Government?

The fact is and the point is, saying he was paid by the government is false!

Lincoln could not sue the Government for failure to default on his pay check if he did not get paid for months etc.   His contract was with the TTFF and they were his employees and they paid him..this is such a simple concept.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: kicker on July 19, 2011, 08:05:15 AM
referring to your comments that we have societal flaws and before that was critical of Lincoln for suggesting the same, saying you have heard it all before etc.  That is my point

Again - I didn't criticize him for suggesting it.  I criticized what he said for what I found was a lack of substance behind suggesting it.  Yes we know our society is flawed... If yuh put the full stop after that and move on, then that's not enough IMO. i.e. let's actually look into some of these flaws and draw some connections between them and the shortcomings in our football administration.  That's when I gave some examples off the top of my head of areas where we fall short as a nation - some directly related to football, most not...let's put them out there and start connecting the dots...short of that we just recycling the broad sweeping criticisms of T&T e.g. we too wotless, we too shortsighted, we have a fete mentality etc...
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: truetrini on July 19, 2011, 08:38:27 AM
referring to your comments that we have societal flaws and before that was critical of Lincoln for suggesting the same, saying you have heard it all before etc.  That is my point

Again - I didn't criticize him for suggesting it.  I criticized what he said for what I found was a lack of substance behind suggesting it.  Yes we know our society is flawed... If yuh put the full stop after that and move on, then that's not enough IMO. i.e. let's actually look into some of these flaws and draw some connections between them and the shortcomings in our football administration.  That's when I gave some examples off the top of my head of areas where we fall short as a nation - some directly related to football, most not...let's put them out there and start connecting the dots...short of that we just recycling the broad sweeping criticisms of T&T e.g. we too wotless, we too shortsighted, we have a fete mentality etc...

Even if I agree with what you said you came back and repeated what he said....???
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: kicker on July 19, 2011, 09:02:14 AM
Even if I agree with what you said you came back and repeated what he said....???

If you think so then fine, I disagree.  I've said a few times that I don't disagree with his overall premise - so naturally I would echo (some of) his sentiments.  Nothing that I wrote was intended to be a substitute or an improvement on what LP wrote....just posting off the cuff and giving some examples of things I would like to hear from someone go into some kind of detail on..... someone who appears to want to inspire some kind of consciousness. Maybe we have a disconnect because you don't seem to be interpreting my posts correctly, and I don't really understand your fixation.  I am not the topic of discussion here. 
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Jack Horner on July 19, 2011, 09:09:59 AM
I don't lie, the TTFF/Sportt was not going to renew Lincoln contract, he had no choice in the matter.

Jack will raise again !!!!!!!!
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: kicker on July 19, 2011, 09:16:55 AM
Jack will raise again !!!!!!!!

raise what?
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: kicker on July 19, 2011, 09:19:06 AM
I don't lie, the TTFF/Sportt was not going to renew Lincoln contract, he had no choice in the matter.

Who cares?

This thread is about moving forward, not looking back...
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Jack Horner on July 19, 2011, 10:01:34 AM
No one can move forward once I am there.

If you notice, all Trinis do is talk.

Benjai say so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qiXDwTIabk
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Bakes on July 19, 2011, 10:04:25 AM
No one can move forward once I am there.

If you notice, all Trinis do is talk.

Benjai say so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qiXDwTIabk

Hi Troll...
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Jack Horner on July 19, 2011, 10:35:11 AM
Hi Troll...

I am not, I just wanted to add my piece to these guys who defending Lincoln.

Lincoln had his chance, no ?

7 years he took to realise certain things ?

Now he's talking from overseas where no one can see him hiding behind his pen.

When he was there in real life why didn't he fight to make a change ? or asked them to open their books ?

I speak my mind and you are calling me a troll because you dont agree with me ? this is a free forum, no ?

Tell, me, who can stop Jack ?

And tell me who stepping forward to do anything positive for T&T football. All these big names hiding and only talking, Trinis dont stick together, you get individual fights, nothing more.

Jack will raise again. !!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Coop's on July 19, 2011, 10:38:22 AM
No one can move forward once I am there.

If you notice, all Trinis do is talk.

Benjai say so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qiXDwTIabk
      Who are you?JW in disguise or what.When you say once you are there what you mean,you working for the TTFF?are you a Trini?
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: maxg on July 19, 2011, 10:41:12 AM
Once the issues have been accepted, we seem to run into a stumbling block and have a too long decision making, analysis, and eventual fallout on what the next step should be. Then eventually, some other bacchanal surfaces, we jump up in that, and forget, sometimes for a few years that it was necessary for us to make a step. We then await, another influential person to repeat the topic, and round the pikcah patch we dance again...the next step starts with us, we might stumble & fall, we might still be unsteady, or we might simply be in a position to take another ( no trumpet & doodop yet)..however, if we will every time continually argue on who is correct or if that unknown step is the correct one..and await one individual to actually make the decision for all of us, in spite of ourselves, then we wouldn't be going anywhere...what is the next step as far as we who are aware can make...no LP,not JW, not OC, not KPB...Let's discuss what little we can do....
Let me start, personally, I like and feel we should throw our whole support behind North east stars, I like what they have been trying to do, and it is in keeping with our general philosophy. I think we should get behind that group, and try to grow and extend throughout first that community as well as the surrounding communities, gradually extending the model throughout all the regions...and then country..the solutions cannot be about where we each are from anymore, it should be about where we as TT people and socawarriors.net want to be...other than something similar, we could chat till doomsday bout who seeing that correct next step.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Football supporter on July 19, 2011, 11:01:22 AM
"Tell, me, who can stop Jack ?"  Erm, Mr Horner, I don't have a lot of time so I'll just name the people who have already stopped your pal.

How about Blatter kicking him off FIFA? (yeah, tell me Jack resigned coz he was getting bored with the whole scene)

How about Blazer kicking him off CONCACAF & CFU? (Yeah, I know, it was part of the Blatter/Blazer conspirousy fuelled by the Brits and their shitty free press)

How about Kamla kicking him out of Transport and most of the national boards? (Yeah, I know, it gives him more time to concentrate on Works)

How about the 2006 Soca Warriors winning in court? (Yeah, that was just TTFF, right? Jack was never head of LOC2006, right?)

Now scan forward hoss. You think everyone gonna rock back when it becomes clear from the audited accounts that millions of dollars have gone missing? You think Kamla still gonna kiss his ass? Dream on sunshine, you're backing a losing horse. Next election (if he manages to retain his seat until then....not always easy when you're in prison) whoever the opposition puts against him will have a field day.

As I've said many times, I don't hate Jack. If he had made better decisions he would have made a great P.M. And I hear Gaddaffi is a great laugh at parties, but I wouldn't vote for him either.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Jack Horner on July 19, 2011, 11:10:19 AM
"Tell, me, who can stop Jack ?"  Erm, Mr Horner, I don't have a lot of time so I'll just name the people who have already stopped your pal.

How about Blatter kicking him off FIFA? (yeah, tell me Jack resigned coz he was getting bored with the whole scene)

How about Blazer kicking him off CONCACAF & CFU? (Yeah, I know, it was part of the Blatter/Blazer conspirousy fuelled by the Brits and their shitty free press)

How about Kamla kicking him out of Transport and most of the national boards? (Yeah, I know, it gives him more time to concentrate on Works)

How about the 2006 Soca Warriors winning in court? (Yeah, that was just TTFF, right? Jack was never head of LOC2006, right?)

Now scan forward hoss. You think everyone gonna rock back when it becomes clear from the audited accounts that millions of dollars have gone missing? You think Kamla still gonna kiss his ass? Dream on sunshine, you're backing a losing horse. Next election (if he manages to retain his seat until then....not always easy when you're in prison) whoever the opposition puts against him will have a field day.

As I've said many times, I don't hate Jack. If he had made better decisions he would have made a great P.M. And I hear Gaddaffi is a great laugh at parties, but I wouldn't vote for him either.

Jack was paid off by FIFA.

Kamla is still Jack's personal friend and took away a post so the pressure of people calling for Jack to resign would ease and then forgotten. Jack still handle things behind the scenes. People in T&T are very stupid and laid back, they will forget after a case of Carib. Jack will win again next election, no one has won their seat by such land slide.

The 2006 WC Warriors is desperate for money and they will eventually break and settle and which is peanuts for Jack, they are hungry for money and not thinking about T&T football. Go to any fete in T&T and you will see Sancho there, them guys dont care about T&T football, North East is just a way to past time and make a name for himself, what is he doing for North East Stars Youth Program ? Kelvin Jack is unemployed and broke, same for Ian Cox, Evan Wise, Aurtis Whitley and Marvin Andrews (who came to the TTFF office and settle behind his teammates like a trator) and soon to be Collin Samuel and Cyd Gray.

None of these men could form a unity, how could they stop Jack ?

Brent Sancho, Kelvin Jack and Shaka Hislop wanted to form a players union, ask them what happen to it.

Don't you see the politics my friend.

Blazer is an informer because he wanted a cut and didn't get it so he sold out Jack and now he wants Concacaf. Jack may lose a few battles, but will win the war !!!

Dont believe everything you read in the newspapers my friends.

Jack will raise again !!!!!
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Dutty on July 19, 2011, 11:21:14 AM
oh garrdo :D... Diamondtrim, yuh stick in yuh thumb and pull out ah new nom de plumb?

Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Sando on July 19, 2011, 11:36:00 AM
TTFF business must be placed in the open
By Lincoln Phillips (T&T Guardian)


Taking T&T football forward - Part 2

When asked what would I do if given the opportunity to make policy for the TTFF, the first thing I say is to take the business of the TTFF out into the open. A clearly defined constitution would be written and federation matters should be discussed under the plain sight of anyone who wishes to view the proceedings. Agendas and minutes of board meetings would be posted on the TTFF website and meetings themselves would be streamed online. At the same time, the first order of external business would be to pay the 2006 World Cup and 2010 Digicel Cup players and in conjunction with correcting that injustice, the ledger of the TTFF should become public record complete with clearly defined revenue streams and expenditures.

Such should be among the first moves to help lift the veil of secrecy and lack of accountability that has become an all too familiar trademark of the TTFF and its more senior policy makers. Most important, I would like to see a new ethos that embraces good governance over cultivation of power. Once establishing a firm, transparent, and efficient business model, attention should be turned to implementing a technical programme that reaches out to other stakeholders of football such as the professional clubs, the SSFL, and government. Coaching development protocols that seek to promote development on the grassroots level as well as on the elite level should be put forth and supported within the first year of a new federation regime. Extensive player identification programme networks to scout and discover any player eligible to represent T&T must also be a part of a player development programme that includes a national player academy as the centerpiece of its technical development system.

Finally, it would do our football well to establish T&T as a destination point for international club teams for exhibition matches and training camps so that our local players will be exposed to the best possible level of competition. All of these endeavours must be clearly presented to the public through digital and traditional media means. It would also do the federation well to help provide PFL and Super League franchises; including the players, marketing assistance to help create reasons why the public should come and support local football. Whether establishing relationships with communities located within close proximity to their club or taking better care to cultivate and craft their own skills, the local professional footballer must realise they are their own and the league’s best salesmen. For the most part this does not exist and match attendances reflect the public indifference.

None of this can be accomplished without a clear mandate from a public that demands a lot from its leaders as well as themselves. Once such a social compact is created, the imbalance that currently exists within our football will soon be fixed. However, until leaders and institutions are continuously held accountable to uphold their end of the bargain, the public will only have themselves to blame and we may be forever relegated to the abyss of lowered expectations when the world hears our name. That would be a shame because of what we have shown we can do.


Didn't Flex wrote a while back about half the things LP now talking about  ?

http://www.socawarriors.net/mens-senior-team/8852-improving-the-game-locally.html
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: de_redman on July 19, 2011, 12:16:05 PM
Jack will raise again !!!

Is RISE!!!! JACK WILL RISE AGAIN YOU IDIOT!!! is one thing to tolerate your nonsensical posts but it is quite another to wrap my head around your stupid catch phrase :bs:
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: ribbit on July 19, 2011, 12:17:54 PM
I don't believe TTFF board meetings should be open to the public, however, the minutes should be available for view. Certainly, accounts should be published yearly and there should be an annual public inquiry hosted by the Minister of Sport to question the financial and philisophical decisions made.

The rest makes sense to me. We have 4 seperate entities running football: TTFF, Pro League, Super League and schools. On TTFF board there should be an appointed liaison for all 3 league systems.

We need to consolidate our football and streamline the path from schools to professionalism.

Crazy thing is, the systems in place, it just needs people under the ages of 80 to streamline it. You have a strong school system. You have a competent semi professional league. You have a potentially good professional league. Just stop them working seperately. Stop promoting yourselves and start to promote T&T football as one entity. You also need a TTFF board member responsible for facilities and maintenence. Then you could think about bringing over foreign club teams. Finally you need a TTFF marketing/business manager to make dollars & cents decisions based on making a profit and sustainability, who would also work with the leagues to income/sponsorship could trickle down.

So you would create a package where, say, BP would be main sponsor of the National Team, sponsor the FA Cup and a School trophy at a cost of, say $2 million per year. Then Digicel would be official T&T communications provider, sponsor Pro League, sponsor Super League cup and maybe the National Schools Academy (which would be the base for the U15's, U17's, U19's) This would also have a ProLeague/Super League draft each year a la NFL)

And you just continue to create packages for sponsors that benefit all tiers including girls soccer. A uniform provider, soft drinks provider (companies like SM Jaleel could attach a different brand to each tier, such as a power drink to the seniors, right down to Chubbys for the under 9's)

This can be done. But the old russian/FIFA style of old man governance must be replaced by fresh younger talent and supported initially by govt.

FS, is it really old man governance or rich man governance that is de problem? people aksing why ttff doh develop/invest in football and conclude is because dese people lazy and wotless. but what are de costs and what are de benefits? grassroots level development had to be (my humble guess) very low on de cost effectiveness scale. sad to say is de so-called waggonists that de rich man want to get to de game because dey plenty, ready to spend and doh have no long-term demands on de rich man's time - unlike diehards that want youth program, functioning league, etc..  is not a lack of vision but a different perspective that seem to be de problem here.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: just cool on July 19, 2011, 12:32:01 PM
I really aint supposed to engage you in this war of words eh, but i will be optimistic against my better judgment and hope that yuhs de kinda fella that could stand up tuh good reasoning.

so here goes. jack horner lemme get this straight, what you're saying is that none of this is jack's fault?? and he bares no responsibility in the demise and undermining of T&T football WSE??!!

well let me just reiterate ah few things that jack has done and didn't do all towards the  stagnance of  T&T football.

first off, he made it impossible for any other candidate to be elected as TTFF president, which spell dictatorship. for the yrs he's been @ the helm, the standard of football on the island has dropped significantly, teams like grenada and bermuda were teams we would eat up and spit out , now it's the other way around.

it's only a few months ago that the TTFF made it mandatory for SSFL coaches to have any kind of coaching diploma let alone ah certain level thereof. for the yrs jack and camps held the top office of football on the island, where are the youth academies for the rising stars of tomorrow? where's the academy in the south, where's the academy i central ? where's the academy in the east, where's the academy in the west and in the POS region?

you talking bout sancho and youth development, what the hell has olie camps and jack warner done for youth development in T&T?? do they even care.

before i joined this site i knew very little of jack warner except what i heard from ppl who worked in football on the island, some good and some bad, but not until i started loggin on to this site did i knew the real, and not so much from what anyone taught me, but what i heard come out the mouth of the man himself.

from the fella who claimed that he loved T&T football, i stood and watch this maniac single handedly made awful decisions after decisions that dragged T&T football through the mud time after time after time, and it was so frustrating to watch. :frustrated:

T&T went from a team everyone wanted to play (after the 06 WC) to a team no one wants to touch, not even elsalvador wants to give us ah friendly, matter of fact we have to go crawling to haiti, ah team we just destroyed in the degicel prelims for ah jump start. :puking:

first he claimed that there was no black list, to the black list was lifted, to any player was eligable to play for T&T, to latapy when instated as coach could have any player he wants and all players would be made available for selection before the costa rica game, ah mean come on!! the fackin man is ah walkin contradiction!!

i think the best thing JW could do for T&T football right now is to resign and never go near football ever again, not even to watch ah match, but of course that is just wishful thinking on my path. :banginghead:


PS: you have to be ah raging madman or a relative of jack warner to believe that this man didn't do an injustice to football and footballers in trinidad and tobago past and present.  :shameonyou:
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: just cool on July 19, 2011, 12:41:13 PM
Rabbit, this is why all this protest business in T&T football cyar go nowhere, that's BC the avid football fan in T&T is less than 10% of the population. trinbagonian "today" does only flock to the stadium to lime, that's it! they're not there to truly support T&T football.

go back to 1989 and see how much ppl was crying when the USA beat we, back then had much more true football fans. today's ppl in T&T is ah fackin waste, every thing is ah lime or ah fight business! no single minded independent thinkers. the heads pull the strings and the dummies follow suit.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Big Magician on July 19, 2011, 12:47:11 PM
Jack Horner ..The 2006 WC Warriors is desperate for money

EVIL... it have more than one stake for one heart eh
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Football supporter on July 19, 2011, 01:00:45 PM
Horner, yuh mad or what? Don't you understand what you just wrote?

Jack was paid off by FIFA.  Why would he be "paid off"? The only reason is that there was enough evidence to drag Jack and FIFA through the mud. He was paid off because he was guilty and was an embarrassment.

Kamla is still Jack's personal friend and took away a post so the pressure of people calling for Jack to resign would ease and then forgotten. There ain't no friends in politics pal. If what you say was true, Kamla would have told Jack what she was going to do...but she didn't. She also would have left Jack with some power. What power does he have now? He can't even get potholes fixed without asking for the money first. He's gone from issuing press statements daily to living in a deeper hole than Bin Laden.

The 2006 WC Warriors is desperate for money and they will eventually break and settle and which is peanuts for Jack Yes, some of them are desperate...because Jack ruined their careers. Trust me, I was there when these guys couldn't get a game with bottom drawer teams. Sancho was offered a trial with Feyenoord while at Gillingham. After the blacklist, he got no interest and Gillingham released him at the end of his contract. 2006 should have launched these boys careers and propelled T&T into a Caribbean powerhouse, instead they couldn't get work permits or interest from clubs and now T&T consider Haiti to be a good footballing test. Jack should have been removed from FIFA for that alone. He will never, ever be forgotten over that scandal and I hope they take his grandchildrens inheritence to punish him.

None of these men could form a unity, how could they stop Jack ? Well 13 managed to, despite the bullying, public abuse, loss of income, delaying tactics, cost of lawyers and legal action. These are real men, not snivelling worms hiding behind job titles and govt flunkies.

Brent Sancho, Kelvin Jack and Shaka Hislop wanted to form a players union, ask them what happen to it.  Players were afraid to join because they say how Jack and TTFF treated the Warriors. I admit, I was disapointed that they didn't man up and work together, but after seeing Jack and TTFF destroy bigger players I can understand their reluctance. You may think its funny, but over 80 nations have players unions. Without one, yuh still no more than slaves being treated like sh*t by the rich man. Jack preaches on about his blackness and being African, but he acting like the zulu slave traders of old, selling his brethren down the river while he lives in luxury. Jack is the worst kind of racist...he dislikes the white regime, and looks down on black people even more, and chooses to align himself with Indians who he reveres.  


Blazer is an informer because he wanted a cut and didn't get it so he sold out Jack and now he wants Concacaf. You can't inform on any one or take a cut if they are innocent. Therefore, as you know Jacks intimate secrets, you are admitting that Jack was involved in the bribery scandal. So now you've come clean about that, tell us, how much did he make, other than the $100,000 he got from Bin hamman?

To the forum
Sorry if I offended anyone, but the mans chupidness got me vex! I should learn not to bite!
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Big Magician on July 19, 2011, 01:04:29 PM
FS.... WE will raise again...doh study them
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Football supporter on July 19, 2011, 01:07:54 PM
Ribbit, theres no money in youth football. Maybe you can recoup some dollars if you can sell a youth overseas, but overall, investment in youth football should be about government and communities investing in the future. Most won't make the professional cuts, but meantime, it is proven that involvement in sport does increase youth self respect, discipline and work ethic. Without a consolidated sport infrastructure, youths are left feeling ignored, bored and unrespected and drift into the gang culture.

Grass roots sports benefits everyone and of course, builds a solid foundation for professional sport.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: kicker on July 19, 2011, 01:27:51 PM
Rabbit, this is why all this protest business in T&T football cyar go nowhere, that's BC the avid football fan in T&T is less than 10% of the population. trinbagonian "today" does only flock to the stadium to lime, that's it! they're not there to truly support T&T football.

go back to 1989 and see how much ppl was crying when the USA beat we, back then had much more true football fans. today's ppl in T&T is ah fackin waste, every thing is ah lime or ah fight business! no single minded independent thinkers. the heads pull the strings and the dummies follow suit.

People used to lime in 1989 just as much as they lime nowadays. Trinidad has always a liming country....  November 19, 1989 was as much a symbol of patrotism and unity as it was a show of waggonism. 
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: just cool on July 19, 2011, 02:11:37 PM
Rabbit, this is why all this protest business in T&T football cyar go nowhere, that's BC the avid football fan in T&T is less than 10% of the population. trinbagonian "today" does only flock to the stadium to lime, that's it! they're not there to truly support T&T football.

go back to 1989 and see how much ppl was crying when the USA beat we, back then had much more true football fans. today's ppl in T&T is ah fackin waste, every thing is ah lime or ah fight business! no single minded independent thinkers. the heads pull the strings and the dummies follow suit.

People used to lime in 1989 just as much as they lime nowadays. Trinidad has always a liming country....  November 19, 1989 was as much a symbol of patrotism and unity as it was a show of waggonism. 
Yes ppl used to lime, but it had far more true fans who used to get soaked in the rain watching their favorite teams than now, and i know that BC that's how i broke out in football, watching colts and malvern dem knee high in mud.

football matches always have true fans and limers, just look @ the copa america clips wid woman modellin in de stands, but they don't make up the majority.

BTW, you feel if T&T was to lose another game like 89 in 2013 you would see the young and old crying their eyes out??

back then had football all over the place wid all kinda leagues, when i pass through T&T now, all yuh does see in the savannah during football season is pick up games. back in the days belmont alone had about 6 team in about 4 different leagues.

we had colts which is the big team, then st francios nationals, parkites , aloha, ball getters, and one other team that i can't remember right now, but my point was that the whole nation was brimming wid football and football lovers, we even had ah yute league in the savannah.

i doh know what era you came up in, but if you're anything over 45 then you should know what i talkin bout.
saturday mornings used to be brimming wid action, is only football uniforms yuh seeing heading to and from the savannah and other community fields. bush leagues was the order of the day, bush leagues after bush leagues galore, and the spectatorship was not bad either.



PS: i went and watch ah double header in the HSC not too long ago, and the stadium looked empty like church on ah carnival monday, imagine the top four teams in the land battling in ah cup semis and the stadium had about 400 ppl if so much.

could you imagine if that was jablotte,  ASL,  trintoc, and carenarge UTD  back in 1985 if that stadium wouldnah been packed out for ah cup semis ?? i say packed to capacity.                     dem ppl doh like football again sah!
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: kicker on July 19, 2011, 02:29:01 PM
It's because there is a greater exposure now to a better quality product...cable TV, streaming video, youtube, increased migration etc.... people eh want tuh watch our jokey football again. 

Trinis not living in a bubble anymore...  I not trying to discredit our heroes of the past, but a good part of why we have such good memories of them is because the global benchmark wasn't as pervasive as it is now... We may be relatively worse off than we were then, but let's face it- we were never globally competitive. 

That's how globalization works - inferior products will suffer when the barriers to entry are removed - the onus is on us to improve the quality of the product, the marketing and in this case to boost national pride and patriotism because the barriers to entry eh giving us the protection that it once did.   

I eh think Trinis change as much as you think - I think that the world around us has changed and we just moving with it as we would have moved with it back then....
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: just cool on July 19, 2011, 03:45:21 PM
It's because there is a greater exposure now to a better quality product...cable TV, streaming video, youtube, increased migration etc.... people eh want tuh watch our jokey football again. 

Trinis not living in a bubble anymore...  I not trying to discredit our heroes of the past, but a good part of why we have such good memories of them is because the global benchmark wasn't as pervasive as it is now... We may be relatively worse off than we were then, but let's face it- we were never globally competitive. 

That's how globalization works - inferior products will suffer when the barriers to entry are removed - the onus is on us to improve the quality of the product, the marketing and in this case to boost national pride and patriotism because the barriers to entry eh giving us the protection that it once did.   

I eh think Trinis change as much as you think - I think that the world around us has changed and we just moving with it as we would have moved with it back then....
Poppy cock!!!!!! that's ah crock if i ever heard one. why then aren't english fans not dropping their draws to attend only premeriship games instead of cenference games where their teams play in dat inferior league? and not too far away from the big teams either, some of them are in their own county like stoke and portvale.

why is it that bradford city and macclesfield still get packed houses with enthusiastic fans paying their pittings to watch ah piss poor team get trashed by another piss poor team?

you think these fellas don't have cable and internet, or yuh feel they can't take the metro tuh go see ah big team like arsenal play chelsea? but no, they rather go see their county team lose, then after they would kick the sand and say "facke them i'll never watch another game in here as long as i live", but the next week they in attendance singing and chanting songs for 45 mins @ a time.

teams like staines town, corby , dover, gloucester, dorchester, salisbury, gainsborough and worcester all play in ah piss poor league and they all have strong supporters and packed stadiums week in week out, not only that but they have good commercial revenue from their sports shop.

i'm sorry but that argument don't hold water. poor leagues all over the world have strong team support. why , just look @ jamaica, their fields and facilities doh look as half as good as ours, but come game day and they're all packed out with strong supporters who have access to cable and internet.

nowadays trinis is just ah wortless disbanded  ppl, so doh make no excuses for those complaisant party minded bunch ah ppl..
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: kicker on July 19, 2011, 03:58:18 PM
Those examples you gave there are of people who were always exposed to and part of the bigger picture...

Mr lower division die hard fan in England always knew that there were teams divisions above his and that there was a gulf that existed between them- them eh need cable TV for that.  He always had the choice to latch on to a bigger team and didn't. In Trini we never had the choice...now we do.... Mr. Small team fan always knew that the Liverpools and Man U's of the world were leaps and bounds above his small town team...  They weren't living in no bubble -they choose to support their team based on a sense of loyalty - We in Trinidad never had our loyalty and patriotism challenged like it's being challenged now that the barriers to entry are falling...which is what I'm saying- now more than ever we need to counteract that by increasing the quality of the product and the sense of national pride...That's what I said in the previous post.

I recently heard a talk about how much better our college's league players were in the days of Sherwood and Yorke etc...Remember that U-20 team with Yorke, Sherwood, Ince etc... that went to the WC in Portugal in 1991.  Remember the level cutarse they get....Remember our U-20 team that just finished up the WC in Egypt like 2 years ago or so - remember how they kinda held their own?  Nothing eh really deteriorate that much in Trini friend - our memories are just tainted based on what we were exposed to before compared to now.  Many people who claimed to love their local community team and love local football clearly didn't love it that much, or we wouldn't be where we are now...they just didn't have much other choices.   
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: just cool on July 19, 2011, 05:36:30 PM
Those examples you gave there are of people who were always exposed to and part of the bigger picture...

Mr lower division die hard fan in England always knew that there were teams divisions above his and that there was a gulf that existed between them- them eh need cable TV for that.  He always had the choice to latch on to a bigger team and didn't. In Trini we never had the choice...now we do.... Mr. Small team fan always knew that the Liverpools and Man U's of the world were leaps and bounds above his small town team...  They weren't living in no bubble -they choose to support their team based on a sense of loyalty - We in Trinidad never had our loyalty and patriotism challenged like it's being challenged now that the barriers to entry are falling...which is what I'm saying- now more than ever we need to counteract that by increasing the quality of the product and the sense of national pride...That's what I said in the previous post.

I recently heard a talk about how much better our college's league players were in the days of Sherwood and Yorke etc...Remember that U-20 team with Yorke, Sherwood, Ince etc... that went to the WC in Portugal in 1991.  Remember the level cutarse they get....Remember our U-20 team that just finished up the WC in Egypt like 2 years ago or so - remember how they kinda held their own?  Nothing eh really deteriorate that much in Trini friend - our memories are just tainted based on what we were exposed to before compared to now.  Many people who claimed to love their local community team and love local football clearly didn't love it that much, or we wouldn't be where we are now...they just didn't have much other choices.   
I eh really want tuh hold yuh in ah long debate, but yuh go lose this argument. you say that we didn't have access to big name teams like chelsea and arsenal? meh boi, iz long time trinis watchin english top flight football, german top flight football and of late italian and spanish football.

i remember watcing helmit shern and franz beckenbauer on ttt on sundays and saturdays. i remember my first english team was totenham, that's BC garth crooks was the talk of the town.

i've seen kenny dalglesh, glen hoddle, trevor mc dermitt, goerge best,  and gordon banks all played football on TV, as ah matter of fact fellas used to emulate these dudes when they took to the field to play for their clubs.

but we didn't let that stop us from supporting we ASL, jabs, and we malvern neither. i remember arthur suite league used to be packed with spectators under flood lights @ PSA grounds and around that time we were exposed to great foreign leagues.

you think is now man watchin big name players ? as for your analogy with york and sharewood compared with hyland and desilver dem, well lets examine this analogy shall we. what about the fellas in gally dem time who was beating mexico and argentina, them men was holding their own as well and they were way before york ever kicked ah ball. the truth iz, that argument is not ah really good measuring stick to judge progress.

you must also remember that a lot of good footballers and their loyal fans left T&T in the mid eighties to mid 90ies with that brain drain that we suffered.  most of the true football lovin ppl migrated and the older heads died out. don't ever underestimate ah brain drian pardner, it's ah disastrous thing.

truth iz, trinis lost their culture and way of life bad bad bad. when i watch these ppl on that island today, i just cannot identify with them, i have more trini culture in my lil finger than most of them in their whole being.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Deeks on July 19, 2011, 05:56:50 PM
With all the analysis go round and round. truth be told, there is a serious disconnect between the fans and local football. people here saying the local fans want a better product from the clubs. most of us agree. But others, including myself, say go and encourage and support your team or the next best team in numbers like we used too long ago. When will those who want a better product know the teams playing good? They just have to go out in numbers and make noise so the players will getting that adrenalin like we see in the EPL. I remember watching 2 Italian big teams play in a empty stadium because of previous game from bad behaving fans. Honestly, I would have opted for D'Romans vs Leed's in the Savannah on a Sunday morning. Good football from the Italics in an echo chamber was boring. Village football in the savannah with fans right around the feel is joy and heaven. Fans just have to go and support.

Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Deeks on July 19, 2011, 06:28:45 PM
The next thing that is hampering the pro-league is the frequency with which teams fold. Teams can't establish themselves in their community if the fold in about 5 yrs of existence. So far  AIA, Jab, NE stars, Connection, JP are the only community based team that staying put and working with their "communities for now, at least. I must say(in my opinion) if TECSA was in existence and probably had half the resources of JP, they would have had more fans support than JP. Teams in South. I leave that to Sando, Fyzoman and the Southies.

The next issue is playing fields. NE stars with all their positives, need a ground to play in Grande. Jab. and AIA need a ground to be set up in Aranguez. Don't tell me they can't do it because is this and that. They ain't shit going on in Aranguez when the evening come. Jab. and AIA(Hospedales and Shabazz(now that Shabazz is PP) should get those talkers who professed to be lovers of football and sports to assit these 2 teams to build a mini-football only (turf-field) stadium for the Morvant-laventille-SJ-Arangues-Santa-Cruz area. AIA and Jab fans are in one contiguous area. The dividing line between the 2 is just a state of mine.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Football supporter on July 19, 2011, 07:24:34 PM
Kicker, JC, Deeks, good discussion. Thing is, if all Trinis were as passionate as you, there wouldn't be a problem.

I don't know why supporting local football died (I've heard all the stories of big crowds from back in the day), but I do know that bringing it back will take a few years. Its like pushing a car...it takes time to pick up speed, then you won't be able to keep up!

It needs men and youths to talk about the clubs, players and fixtures at work, in school, in the bars. It needs talk about the next match, who will play, who will score. It needs our papers to make Pro League a priority. I never see a reporter hanging around a dressing room after a match or appear at a training ground. How can men get interested in a world they know nothing about?

There are too many people walking around cussing the Pro League and the players without actually going to see a match. Kickers right. The English watch crap football in cold and rain in poor facilities. They cuss the players then return next week instead of going to Chelsea. Why? I really don't know. But I know that 90% of supporters never change their team. Yeah, many will drop off if the team is relegated, but they still check the scores. They're "fair weather supporters", but they don't support a fresh team and they gradually come back.

Too many men go to Pro League just so they can cuss, but they're not prepared to get behind a team. People always so negative.

I don't know the answer, but until we solve this problem, football will remain in the doldrums...and that means our national team too.

 
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: truetrini on July 19, 2011, 08:42:24 PM
oh garrdo :D... Diamondtrim, yuh stick in yuh thumb and pull out ah new nom de plumb?



****RIMSHOT!*****
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Socapro on July 19, 2011, 09:23:57 PM
FS.... WE will raise again...doh study them

 :rotfl:
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Cocorite on July 20, 2011, 03:53:09 AM
Whatever happened to the good old survey. Ask the people. Design a survey to ask the people why they don't come out to the games. Don't just take it for granted that we know the reasons. We might be surprised.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Socapro on July 20, 2011, 04:20:43 AM
Whatever happened to the good old survey. Ask the people. Design a survey to ask the people why they don't come out to the games. Don't just take it for granted that we know the reasons. We might be surprised.

Good idea! How do you suggest that survey is carried out?

Should it be done via a TV News poll or via a website survey where you can vote for options or should it be via forms that folks complete on the streets by survey personnel or should it be a combination of all these methods? And over what length of time should the survey be carried out? A week, 2 weeks, a month?

And who should/will take responsibility for carry out this survey?

Again good idea!
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: injunchile on July 20, 2011, 01:52:20 PM
Let me tell you what some diehard supporters told me. I am from the Malvern era and when the Army took away most of our stars we still managed a glamour team with Buggy haynes Boxhill, Texiera etc. PSA with a double header was boss . The story is that stars bring out fans there are no local stars anymore.
 Secondly- They meaning the players dont have a clue- Cant trap , no discipline, star boy thing. Boring football, Boomkick. Just a sweat. I hear that the fete matches have more crowds than a Pro league match.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: weary1969 on July 20, 2011, 01:55:21 PM
Let me tell you what some diehard supporters told me. I am from the Malvern era and when the Army took away most of our stars we still managed a glamour team with Buggy haynes Boxhill, Texiera etc. PSA with a double header was boss . The story is that stars bring out fans there are no local stars anymore.
 Secondly- They meaning the players dont have a clue- Cant trap , no discipline, star boy thing. Boring football, Boomkick. Just a sweat. I hear that the fete matches have more crowds than a Pro league match.

We go tell yuh after Aug 7th.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Jack Horner on July 21, 2011, 09:35:16 AM
I really aint supposed to engage you in this war of words eh, but i will be optimistic against my better judgment and hope that yuhs de kinda fella that could stand up tuh good reasoning.

so here goes. jack horner lemme get this straight, what you're saying is that none of this is jack's fault?? and he bares no responsibility in the demise and undermining of T&T football WSE??!!

well let me just reiterate ah few things that jack has done and didn't do all towards the  stagnance of  T&T football.

first off, he made it impossible for any other candidate to be elected as TTFF president, which spell dictatorship. for the yrs he's been @ the helm, the standard of football on the island has dropped significantly, teams like grenada and bermuda were teams we would eat up and spit out , now it's the other way around.

it's only a few months ago that the TTFF made it mandatory for SSFL coaches to have any kind of coaching diploma let alone ah certain level thereof. for the yrs jack and camps held the top office of football on the island, where are the youth academies for the rising stars of tomorrow? where's the academy in the south, where's the academy i central ? where's the academy in the east, where's the academy in the west and in the POS region?

you talking bout sancho and youth development, what the hell has olie camps and jack warner done for youth development in T&T?? do they even care.

before i joined this site i knew very little of jack warner except what i heard from ppl who worked in football on the island, some good and some bad, but not until i started loggin on to this site did i knew the real, and not so much from what anyone taught me, but what i heard come out the mouth of the man himself.

from the fella who claimed that he loved T&T football, i stood and watch this maniac single handedly made awful decisions after decisions that dragged T&T football through the mud time after time after time, and it was so frustrating to watch. :frustrated:

T&T went from a team everyone wanted to play (after the 06 WC) to a team no one wants to touch, not even elsalvador wants to give us ah friendly, matter of fact we have to go crawling to haiti, ah team we just destroyed in the degicel prelims for ah jump start. :puking:

first he claimed that there was no black list, to the black list was lifted, to any player was eligable to play for T&T, to latapy when instated as coach could have any player he wants and all players would be made available for selection before the costa rica game, ah mean come on!! the fackin man is ah walkin contradiction!!

i think the best thing JW could do for T&T football right now is to resign and never go near football ever again, not even to watch ah match, but of course that is just wishful thinking on my path. :banginghead:


PS: you have to be ah raging madman or a relative of jack warner to believe that this man didn't do an injustice to football and footballers in trinidad and tobago past and present.  :shameonyou:

Jack is a dictator because the people allow him to be one. He walks over anyone in T&T and no one stands up to him.? In other countries this could never happen ?

So who really to blame ?

The people gave him the power.

He fooled the English and got away with it and they are pissing mad, he knows all Blatter secrets, do you really think Jack is gone ?

Jack will raise again !!!!!
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Socapro on July 21, 2011, 11:43:53 AM
I really aint supposed to engage you in this war of words eh, but i will be optimistic against my better judgment and hope that yuhs de kinda fella that could stand up tuh good reasoning.

so here goes. jack horner lemme get this straight, what you're saying is that none of this is jack's fault?? and he bares no responsibility in the demise and undermining of T&T football WSE??!!

well let me just reiterate ah few things that jack has done and didn't do all towards the  stagnance of  T&T football.

first off, he made it impossible for any other candidate to be elected as TTFF president, which spell dictatorship. for the yrs he's been @ the helm, the standard of football on the island has dropped significantly, teams like grenada and bermuda were teams we would eat up and spit out , now it's the other way around.

it's only a few months ago that the TTFF made it mandatory for SSFL coaches to have any kind of coaching diploma let alone ah certain level thereof. for the yrs jack and camps held the top office of football on the island, where are the youth academies for the rising stars of tomorrow? where's the academy in the south, where's the academy i central ? where's the academy in the east, where's the academy in the west and in the POS region?

you talking bout sancho and youth development, what the hell has olie camps and jack warner done for youth development in T&T?? do they even care.

before i joined this site i knew very little of jack warner except what i heard from ppl who worked in football on the island, some good and some bad, but not until i started loggin on to this site did i knew the real, and not so much from what anyone taught me, but what i heard come out the mouth of the man himself.

from the fella who claimed that he loved T&T football, i stood and watch this maniac single handedly made awful decisions after decisions that dragged T&T football through the mud time after time after time, and it was so frustrating to watch. :frustrated:

T&T went from a team everyone wanted to play (after the 06 WC) to a team no one wants to touch, not even elsalvador wants to give us ah friendly, matter of fact we have to go crawling to haiti, ah team we just destroyed in the degicel prelims for ah jump start. :puking:

first he claimed that there was no black list, to the black list was lifted, to any player was eligable to play for T&T, to latapy when instated as coach could have any player he wants and all players would be made available for selection before the costa rica game, ah mean come on!! the fackin man is ah walkin contradiction!!

i think the best thing JW could do for T&T football right now is to resign and never go near football ever again, not even to watch ah match, but of course that is just wishful thinking on my path. :banginghead:


PS: you have to be ah raging madman or a relative of jack warner to believe that this man didn't do an injustice to football and footballers in trinidad and tobago past and present.  :shameonyou:

Jack is a dictator because the people allow him to be one. He walks over anyone in T&T and no one stands up to him.? In other countries this could never happen ?

So who really to blame ?

The people gave him the power.

He fooled the English and got away with it and they are pissing mad, he knows all Blatter secrets, do you really think Jack is gone ?

Jack will raise again !!!!!

When & where is that?!

In FIFA or in the UNC?!

And if its in FIFA please explain how!! 

This will be interesting to hear! 8)
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Football supporter on July 21, 2011, 01:23:33 PM
"Jack is a dictator because the people allow him to be one. He walks over anyone in T&T and no one stands up to him.? In other countries this could never happen ?

So who really to blame ?

The people gave him the power.

He fooled the English and got away with it and they are pissing mad, he knows all Blatter secrets, do you really think Jack is gone ?"


HELLO, MR HORNER!!  WAKEY WAKEY!  I guess you been sleeping for the last 2 months and missed the news.

You're correct that noone stood up to him for years, but that ain't so now.

And the people can take away the power....and will do.

Yeah, he did fool the English. You must be so proud to be a Trini knowing that your kinsman and Government Minister lied to the faces of the British. That really does create an impression across the globe. Well done Jack. But Jack didn't realise that you can take the p*ss too often. I don't know if they orchestrated Jacks removal, but I'm damn sure the Brits had a big influence in Blatters decision to take him down.

And Blatter knows all Jacks secrets. If Jack blabs about Blatter, so what? He ain't standing again. He's just a guy who works in football. If Blatters tells all about Jack, he will lose his govt job and maybe his seat too. Maybe even prison. So, who's afraid of who?

And yes, I really do feel the days of Jacula are in the past, though he may give a little head and keep the MP role.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Bakes on July 21, 2011, 01:41:40 PM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JWdI8aKt8dk/ThRkkgjlyvI/AAAAAAAAAUY/arLCIieDxNM/s1600/DontFeedTheTroll.jpg)
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Cocorite on July 21, 2011, 04:13:11 PM
Whatever happened to the good old survey. Ask the people. Design a survey to ask the people why they don't come out to the games. Don't just take it for granted that we know the reasons. We might be surprised.

Good idea! How do you suggest that survey is carried out?

Should it be done via a TV News poll or via a website survey where you can vote for options or should it be via forms that folks complete on the streets by survey personnel or should it be a combination of all these methods? And over what length of time should the survey be carried out? A week, 2 weeks, a month?

And who should/will take responsibility for carry out this survey?

Again good idea!


A multi-pronged approach is usually best. Media to get the word out. Websitie, foot work on the street etc. The Pro League should probably carry it out. The length of time should be determined by who they hear from. A representative sample of the nation. 10% of the people should be good enough.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Jack Horner on July 21, 2011, 06:13:36 PM
You guys cant handle the truth and calling me all kind of names, I didnot cuss anyone or disrespect anyone.

Football supporter bragging about $200,000 tt dollars, I spend that in a week.

Jack will raise again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Football supporter on July 21, 2011, 10:47:15 PM
Mr Horner, maybe you didn't cuss anyone, but you certainly disrespected all on this site. Your valued opinions are welcome, but if you are antagonistic then people will respond to that antagonism. For example: "Football supporter bragging about $200,000 tt dollars, I spend that in a week"  Why not explain how you're currently earning TT$9.6 million per year? I'd love to know that.

Personally, I feel your just trying to get a reaction as your posts have no substance. But I seriously would be interested in your view of the situation with Jack, and I don't just mean the conspiracy theories, I mean proper reasoned arguments.
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: truetrini on July 22, 2011, 12:38:35 AM
"Yeah Jack Will raise again!!!!!!!!!" (http://www.apeswillrise.com/)
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Sando prince on July 22, 2011, 03:48:31 AM
No one can move forward once I am there.

If you notice, all Trinis do is talk.

Benjai say so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qiXDwTIabk

 ;D  This man jus come in here and drop ah big tune yes
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: Brownsugar on July 22, 2011, 05:22:35 AM
All I can say for this Jack Horner fella is that since he eh have to wuk for FIFA and get he Ministry downsized, he have plenty time on he hands......welcome Horner.  I feel I goh like having you around.  You remind of Joel Bailey aka Yours Truly.....real entertainment.....ah goh love it!!

 :devil: ;D
Title: Re: TTFF business must be placed in the open
Post by: just cool on July 22, 2011, 08:18:59 PM
All I can say for this Jack Horner fella is that since he eh have to wuk for FIFA and get he Ministry downsized, he have plenty time on he hands......welcome Horner.  I feel I goh like having you around.  You remind of Joel Bailey aka Yours Truly.....real entertainment.....ah goh love it!!

 :devil: ;D
Doh insult the hon austin jack warner like dat nah gyul! this fella eh nowhere in JW's class. stueps,  he's just ah groupie, may the real jack warner please stand up.  :heehee: