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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Touches on July 03, 2012, 06:10:31 AM

Title: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Touches on July 03, 2012, 06:10:31 AM
 >:( :bs: They looking to kill more people down here now. This is a skilled and a noble profession, now because they can't pass the exam they want to let them in easy...steups. Theory and Practical is two different ting...Put a hand!!!  :pissedoff:

Source Trinidad Express (http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Govt_to_remove_nursing_exam-161173715.html)

Govt to remove nursing exam...as it tries to fill over 3,000 vacancies

By Renuka Singh

Story Updated: Jul 3, 2012 at 12:55 AM ECT

GOVERNMENT is moving to remove a practical testing element for nurses to qualify in a bid to fill over 3,000 vacancies in the health sector.

This from Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan yesterday who said the examination overseen by the Nursing Council of Trinidad and Tobago will no longer be necessary for nurses to begin practising at the nation's hospitals once the amendments to the Nursing and Midwives Act are passed in Parliament.

Speaking at a media conference at the Ministry of Health's head office on Park Street, Port of Spain, Khan said between 2009-2012 over 40 per cent of graduating nurses failed the licensing exam.
He said that nurses who fail the exam on three consecutive occasions are permanently disqualified from practising.

Khan said nursing graduates were already holding nursing certificate or Bachelor's degree from a training institution yet the present law mandated that they still sit an examination imposed by the Nursing Council in order to be become registered nurses and practise their profession.

"The removal of this examination will bring the registration and licensing of our nurses in line with other such noble professionals. Our nurses who are trained in Trinidad and Tobago will have automatic registration to practice within Trinidad and Tobago, and those who wish to practice abroad can sit any relevant registration exam to practice in that territory," he said.

"This among other factors has impacted negatively on the Ministry's manpower planning, as there continues to be a serious shortfall in nursing personnel. In order to address this problem and to ensure there is continuous improvement within the health sector, the Ministry is exploring various initiatives," he said.

Khan said while the Ministry has increased its training programmes and now enrolls 300 nursing students, there continues to be a "severe shortage of nurses within our local health system".

Khan said five amendments to the Nurses and Midwives Act, already approved by Cabinet, will also reduce the current size of the Nursing Council.

He said the Nurses and Midwives Act currently stipulates that the Nursing Council consists of 22 people, but he thought that was too large and suggested that it be reduced to 13 people comprising elected, non-elected members and lay people.

To further streamline the training processes, Khan said the Government recently agreed to move all nursing training programmes from the Ministry of Health to the Ministry of Tertiary Education and Skills Training.
A representative of the Nurses Council yesterday said the body will be sending out a media release today, but would not speak on the issue until then.

Valerie Alleyne-Rawlins, president of the T&T Registered Nurses Association yesterday said the licensing exam determined the graduates "fitness" to practice as a nurse. She said she was unaware of the amendments and would only comment when she got more information from the Ministry of Health.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Michael-j on July 03, 2012, 06:45:18 AM
That is absolutely ridiculous! The whole point of having licensing exams is to ensure that those wishing to practice can  demonstrate that they are competent to do so, thus ensuring that the standard of health care delivery is maintained!
If we think the healthcare situation is bad now, wait and see what happens if this comes to pass
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Bourbon on July 03, 2012, 07:00:57 AM
But why is the failure rate so high?
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Jah Gol on July 03, 2012, 08:43:18 AM
But why is the failure rate so high?


Quote
Our nurses who are trained in Trinidad and Tobago will have automatic registration to practice within Trinidad and Tobago, and those who wish to practice abroad can sit any relevant registration exam to practice in that territory," he said.

That is the obvious question. How then can the Minister use the fact that they were trained at an accredited institution as grounds for automatic registration if so many people fail the entrance exam ?
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Peong on July 03, 2012, 09:21:08 AM
wdf ppl go dead in trute.  This is a major step back, I can't comprehend the stupidity.  I've heard of making exams easier to increase the pass rate, but this is a whole level below that.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: lefty on July 03, 2012, 10:22:44 AM
time to have as many quack nurses as doctors in our hospitals.....steups.......an trust mih we have a high level of "quackery" in we system especially if dey graduated from UWI within d last 10-15 yrs......could have lost my leg 'cause a young intern couldn't or would properly examine my foot some years ago
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Football supporter on July 03, 2012, 11:04:33 AM
10 days ago, my girlfriend was hospitalised at Mount Hope Emergency Ward after suffering from breathing difficulties. The next day they suspected she had a blood clot on her lung.... but they couldn't be sure. They discharged her with a prescription for injections to be self administered into her stomach, twice a day and a list of tests to be taken. She returned to Mount Hope to book the tests and received a date in 2013! For a suspected blood clot on her lung!!

To make matters worse, when she tried to obtain more injections she was told that they had run out. Finally, she travelled to Port Of Spain hospital and filled her scrip there!

What a joke! Now we have to get tests privately. But what about all of those people who can't afford private tests? It made me realise, especially if this had been my child, if I couldn't afford to go private, I'd seriously consider crime to save my childs life.

$2 million for Basketball? Fix the hospitals first!
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Bourbon on July 03, 2012, 12:04:57 PM
A system is only as good as the people operating it.


It doh HAVE to be so. But people want to rape the system and advantage it and force people to go to their private practice etc.


Now the nurses does take the strain...but....now..with this.....you need to ask yourself.....what shortcomings are there that result in such a failure rate? Especially with a lack of nurses in the system?
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: zuluwarrior on July 03, 2012, 02:42:04 PM
SHAQ, I you are lifting my PM the way you squezing she, if she was to drop a drunken master fart in your face you wiil surely die, that would be the end of your basketball days
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Socapro on July 03, 2012, 04:23:33 PM
In celebration of 50 years of independence seems like we want to go 50 years backwards?

But ent the people in T&T vote for this and the opposition is in tatters?!

So no use complaining, we rising!!!  :beermug:
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: congo on July 03, 2012, 05:17:45 PM
No No No....You all are not seeing the big picture here. By removing this exam from the nurses they remove their ability to be accepted internationally. This basically limits their mobility so in other words they have to eat the bread these DEVILS will be kneading.

So they basically can't even negotiate for better conditions because they become easily replaceable and they have to stay here and take what is given to them.

They feel they too smart. Why don't they also remove the exams at Hugh Wooding and the Medical School?

 I'm sure there are failures there as well.  :bs: :bs:
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 03, 2012, 08:09:30 PM
No No No....You all are not seeing the big picture here. By removing this exam from the nurses they remove their ability to be accepted internationally. This basically limits their mobility so in other words they have to eat the bread these DEVILS will be kneading.

So they basically can't even negotiate for better conditions because they become easily replaceable and they have to stay here and take what is given to them.

They feel they too smart. Why don't they also remove the exams at Hugh Wooding and the Medical School?

 I'm sure there are failures there as well.  :bs: :bs:


BINGO!!!  That is exactly what they are trying to do.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Touches on July 04, 2012, 06:29:05 AM
But by the same token...it means that foreign nurses could come and get a wuk easy too.  :worried:

So is more Phillipino and Cuban in we pwefin.



Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Bourbon on July 04, 2012, 06:30:48 AM
But by the same token...it means that foreign nurses could come and get a wuk easy too.  :worried:

So is more Phillipino and Cuban in we pwefin.






So how de ones that here already getting to practice? Dey sit the exam and pass?
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: congo on July 04, 2012, 05:25:39 PM
Most likely they would have passed an equivalent examination set by their medical council.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Michael-j on July 04, 2012, 05:36:55 PM
But by the same token...it means that foreign nurses could come and get a wuk easy too.  :worried:

So is more Phillipino and Cuban in we pwefin.





I worked briefly with  a few of these nurses in the past and don't have a bad word to say against them....They are actually quite good, very proactive...they show a lot of initiative.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Bourbon on July 04, 2012, 08:28:29 PM
Most likely they would have passed an equivalent examination set by their medical council.


Thats the key.

I recently finished training as an Emergency Medical Technican (Basic). While I would (and am) able to work in Trinidad, legislation is coming where we would need to be certified. The most popular standard is the NREMT standard, which is an American exam which all states generally insist that you do. It allows you to do it..and once your certification is current (up to 2 years) when applying for a job, regardless of the state, you simply give your registry number and you can work (depending on the state...that and some other things, but that is the general base line). The NREMT standard kinda is internationally considered as well since it gives a baseline competency for practice.



Does nursing have an equivalent? I heard that the exam allowed nurses to practice with distinction in England etc.

If that is the case...WHY are university graduates failing? I have heard that its more practical...but...from what I know...practicals should be part of their course of study given the nature of the profession.


So where is this problem happening and why?
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Bakes on July 04, 2012, 11:24:42 PM
No No No....You all are not seeing the big picture here. By removing this exam from the nurses they remove their ability to be accepted internationally. This basically limits their mobility so in other words they have to eat the bread these DEVILS will be kneading.

So they basically can't even negotiate for better conditions because they become easily replaceable and they have to stay here and take what is given to them.

They feel they too smart. Why don't they also remove the exams at Hugh Wooding and the Medical School?

 I'm sure there are failures there as well.  :bs: :bs:


BINGO!!!  That is exactly what they are trying to do.

I cyah believe smart man like you agreeing with that nonsense. Yuh think some foreign jurisdiction allowing Trini nurses to come work in their country on the basis of having passed a Trini exam? Of course not, they would have to pass whatever local certification standards are in place. The exception would be if the foreign jurisdiction considers the Trini certification standards to be equivalent or better than its own. The lack of Trini certification does not bar Trini nurses from moving and working abroad, it just means they now have to pass the foreign certification in order to work there.

As to the larger issue, in a Newsday interview one of these affected individuals attributed the high failure rate to improper training from the degree-granting facility. As I said elsewhere, shocking then that the proposed solution would be to do away with the exam, rather than to improve training at/tighten accreditation of these facilities.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 05, 2012, 01:44:38 AM
I am shocked that you do not know that QUALIFIED nurses from Trinidad and Tobago are OFTEN given jobs in the USA...from as far back as the 1980's!  Yes they must pass the NCLEX but they are given a 15 month provisional license and now with this no exam shit they cannot be "registered'" in their home country so that option is now taken away!  OUR EXAM IS MODELED AFTER THE AMERICAN NCLEX!

AND that time there was a great nursing shortage in Trinidad and Tobago as nurses were leaving, and given work permits to fill positions in the USA and Canada!

Indeed one of the major tenets of Vision 20/20 was to prevent nurses and teachers from leaving the shores of T&T.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 05, 2012, 01:51:55 AM
Registered nurses are exempt from having to obtain a labor certification, which puts them on a fast track for permanent residence. This profession has been precertified by the Department of Labor because there are not sufficient Americans who are able, willing, qualified and available. A professional nurse may have less than a baccalaureate degree in nursing as long as the nurse has completed a program for professional nurses in his/her country, Canada or the U.S.

Registered nurses as opposed to licensed nurses or practical nurses qualify for the 3rd employment preference if they have had at least 2 years of nursing studies after high school or secondary school and have a nursing license issued by their country and either a certificate from the Commission on Graduates of Foreign Nursing Schools (CGFNS), or a full and unrestricted license to practice professional nursing in the state intended for employment

The CGFNS exam is given several times each year at more than 50 exam locations in the U.S. and worldwide. For information about the CGFNS, the telephone number is 215-349-8767.

Before an immigrant visa or adjustment of status is granted, the Visa Screen Certificate or a certified statement must be obtained from the International Commission on Healthcare Professions (ICHP), a part of the CGFNS.

THE VISA SCREEN CERTIFICATE OR THE CERTIFIED STATEMENT

Professional nurses must pass all 3 sections of the Test of English as a Foreign Language

(TOEFL), or the Michigan English Language Assessment Battery (MELAB), to prove English proficiency. An equivalency evaluation of the nursing credentials such as transcripts of school records, diplomas and licenses is made by ICHP. The Visa Screen Certificate verifies that the applicant has the education, training, license and experience equivalent to American registered nurses; that the documents demonstrated are authentic and unencumbered, and that the applicant is fluent in English and has an appropriate professional license.

In lieu of the Visa Screen Certificate for nurses who completed their nursing education in English that includes Australia, Canada (except Quebec), South Africa, Ireland, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the U.S., a certified statement may be issued by CGFNS. Starting on July 1, 2002, nurses from Trinidad and Tobago have been granted provisional eligibility for 15 months to apply for the certified statement in place of the Visa Screen Certificate. For the certified statement to be released, the prospective nurse must be licensed in the state of intended employment and shall have passed the National Council Licensure Examination (NCLEX). Each state will establish that the prospective nurse has an authentic and unencumbered foreign license. Within 35 days after receipt of an application, CGFNS must issue the certified statement.

TEMPORARY LICENSE

A temporary license may be issued after the prospective nurse enters the U.S. and registers to take the NCLEX test for permanent licensing. After the nurse arrives in the U.S., and/or obtains permanent residence, an application for NCLEX must be filed immediately and the test must be taken within 30 days of registering. In most states, the temporary permit is issued when the application is filed. Some states do not have temporary licenses. Each state must be checked for its particular licensing requirements. Some states require all foreign nurses to pass the CGFNS; other states require the NCLEX. In all cases, the nurse must address the licensing requirements of the State of intended employment, which usually encompasses passing the NCLEX exam.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Touches on July 05, 2012, 06:27:09 AM

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/Nursing_Council_defends_exam_-161394985.html



Nursing Council defends exam
By

Story Created: Jul 4, 2012 at 11:58 PM ECT

Story Updated: Jul 4, 2012 at 11:58 PM ECT

The Nursing Council of Trinidad and Tobago (NCTT) yesterday defended the need for a Council-level licensing for graduating nurses.

(http://media.trinidadexpress.com/images/1341460012799ex8.jpg)

In what has now become a public war-of-words between the two, Council members Russel Salcedo and David Murphy yesterday took Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan to task for his plans to amend the Nursing and Midwives Act without consultation.

The Council also denied having any previous discussions with Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan and dismissed his quotation of the 40 per cent failure rate for nurses sitting the Council licence exam.

"Unlike if I am at a factory and a tin goes bad I could dump it, we cannot afford to make mistakes and in order to ensure that we do not make mistakes, we must have some method of assessing the individuals competency and aptitude to be a nurse," Salcedo said.

"Any mistake that a nurse makes is either harm to a client or death and that is a critical factor," he added.

Salcedo said the Minister's quotation of the failure rate was also incorrect and instead said they have documents that show a fail-out rate of three to four per cent.

A fail-out rate is the nurses failure of all three chances to pass the Council's licensing exam within a five-year period.

"The Minister made reference to the percentages and some figures were quoted. In 2008, we had a pass rate of 66 per cent, in 2009 we had a pass rate of 89 per cent, in 2010 we had 62 per cent and in 2011 we had 64 per cent," he said.

He said while there were many institutions preparing nurses, they taught a different curriculum.

"The fail-out rate is three to four per cent and when we look at the number of nurses, there's quite a large number passing the system," he said.

"Nurses are being successful, but not being employed," he said.

He asked Khan to explain why there was a shortage, when nurses have passed the licensing exam a year ago and still remain unplaced in public hospitals.

He said that while locally trained and licensed nurses remain unplaced, nurses under a "Government to Government" exchange programme, like Cuba, St Kitts and Nevis, were placed immediately.

In response to those statements though, Khan said in a telephone interview he in fact did meet with the Council when he first assumed office.

Khan said the Council's licensing exam was done to ensure reciprocity of the nurses throughout the Commonwealth.

"For nurses to migrate, they have to have that licence," Khan said, adding that it was that reciprocity that added to the large amount of vacancies in the local health care system.

Khan though said he was not giving up the fight to have the five amendments passed as the "archaic" Council systems needed to change and "adapt to new technology".

He said in the absence of the licence, student nurses would still have to attend schools accredited by the Accreditation Council of Trinidad and Tobago.

"I am ready for the fight," Khan said.

—Renuka Singh
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: asylumseeker on July 05, 2012, 08:06:46 AM
Spot on TT. What you've addressed is a key structural component of what's at stake.

Regardless of the failure rate, the unaccountable abandon in arriving at this policy outcome is ridiculous ... particularly for a Dr. Fuad Khan. Lamentable.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Bakes on July 05, 2012, 09:14:58 AM
I am shocked that you do not know that QUALIFIED nurses from Trinidad and Tobago are OFTEN given jobs in the USA...from as far back as the 1980's!  Yes they must pass the NCLEX but they are given a 15 month provisional license and now with this no exam shit they cannot be "registered'" in their home country so that option is now taken away!  OUR EXAM IS MODELED AFTER THE AMERICAN NCLEX!

AND that time there was a great nursing shortage in Trinidad and Tobago as nurses were leaving, and given work permits to fill positions in the USA and Canada!

Indeed one of the major tenets of Vision 20/20 was to prevent nurses and teachers from leaving the shores of T&T.

So you arguing just to concede that foreign trained nurses must meet state certification here in the US in order to work? A provisional license is just that... until they pass. If they fail they can't work in that jurisdiction, "registered" or not.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 05, 2012, 09:26:26 AM
There must be some form of accreditation to meter the standard of qualified.  Removal of the exam and thusly, the accreditation stupid the flow.of nurses from TT to europe.and north.america.

No accrediation no provisional license
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 05, 2012, 09:36:38 AM
By the way a 15 month provisional license is a permit to practice nursing for almost  ayear and a half while rpeparing for the NCLEX.  So yeah for a year and a half you can work as a nurse.  Making 50 US or 50 T&T which you think is a better deal for a year and a half?

Now if the pan tro remove the exam is successful, nurses cyar wuk anywhere even in the Caricom region for a day!
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Bakes on July 05, 2012, 01:57:38 PM
There must be some form of accreditation to meter the standard of qualified.  Removal of the exam and thusly, the accreditation stupid the flow.of nurses from TT to europe.and north.america.

No accrediation no provisional license

You didn't read what you post or what?

Quote
In lieu of the Visa Screen Certificate for nurses who completed their nursing education in English that includes Australia, Canada (except Quebec), South Africa, Ireland, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the U.S., a certified statement may be issued by CGFNS

If Trini nurses are "registered" then they can bypass the Visa Screen Certificate requirement and apply for a "certified statement" attesting to the fact that they are qualified to practice. While that application is pending they can be issued the provisional license. If they are not registered then a Visa Screen Certificate is required as part of their immigration application, lack of registration does not bar them from coming to the US to work as you assert... it doesn't "stupid the flow" lol

Where I agree with you is that it imposes a greater than necessary hardship by taking the pro isional license out the picture but that ( your entire second post) is a red herring, no one here, certainly not I, is arguing in favor of the exam's removal. I'm just disagreeing with you and. Onto that this is manifestation of some kinda plot to limit overseas employment prospects for nurses. If implemented this will not limit opportunities for long term employment any more than with the examination in place, it just means that Trini applicants will have to apply for the VSC and wait before they can work at all, just like applicants from most other countries.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 05, 2012, 09:48:36 PM
Listen it does limit employment opportunity.  And yes it amounts to a plot.  Why would anyone in their right mind remove an accreditation exam especially for such a skill sensitive profession?

There is copious evidence that we lose many nurses and teachers to foreign markets.

Additioanlly, not only to developed nations but also to our Caricom neighbours.   Now that T&T they want to remove the exam, they will also remove regional accreditation...thus restricting and impacting employment opportunities.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Socapro on July 05, 2012, 10:01:30 PM
Listen it does limit employment opportunity.  And yes it amounts to a plot.  Why would anyone in their right mind remove an accreditation exam especially for such a skill sensitive profession?

There is copious evidence that we lose many nurses and teachers to foreign markets.

Additioanlly, not only to developed nations but also to our Caricom neighbours.   Now that T&T they want to remove the exam, they will also remove regional accreditation...thus restricting and impacting employment opportunities.
:beermug:
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Bakes on July 05, 2012, 10:17:50 PM
Listen it does limit employment opportunity.  And yes it amounts to a plot.  Why would anyone in their right mind remove an accreditation exam especially for such a skill sensitive profession?

There is copious evidence that we lose many nurses and teachers to foreign markets.

Additioanlly, not only to developed nations but also to our Caricom neighbours.   Now that T&T they want to remove the exam, they will also remove regional accreditation...thus restricting and impacting employment opportunities.

You need to step your game up, simply repeating the same talking points over and over again doesn't make your argument any more persuasive.  There must be something akin to facts to substantiate the ridiculous claim that this somehow a plot to keep nurses local.  How then, were that the case, to explain the  la by the head of the examination council that many registered nurses are still finding it hard to find work locally? Or do you then argue that govt is trying to flood the local nursing supply so as to keep wages low?

Removing the exam simply denies local nurses an automatic entre into whichever foreign market accepted the Trini certification as being good enough. Without that certification the opportunity to work regionally or elsewhere doesn't go away, instead Trini nurses would have to OTHERWISE satisfy whatever criteria the foreign jurisdiction has in place for all other nurses. You are making it seem as though passing the exam is the ONLY way to get work overseas, when the very info you posted says otherwise. Confronted with that you simply repeat your unproven claim in a more authoritative voice, as though I'm supposed to cower before your word, lol
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 05, 2012, 10:31:58 PM
I can ask why did numerous studies lament the fact that so many nurses are leaving our shores for better wages abroad?
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Bakes on July 05, 2012, 11:52:15 PM
I can ask why did numerous studies lament the fact that so many nurses are leaving our shores for better wages abroad?

Okay we'll skip past the fact that you won't address the counterpoints I've raised and go to your new issue raised. If i really wanted to I'd challenge your bald appeal to authority in citing these unspecified "numerous studies", but let's concede that for arguments sake  People have always migrated abroad, opportunities or no opportunities. Therefore there's no real surprise then that they'd leave TnT for better opportunities.

Is it your argument that because others have in the past left for better paying jobs that having nurses work harder for those opportunities is somehow the same as there not being any opportunity at all?  I'm having a hard time understanding that argument, let alone buying it. To paint for you an imperfect anology, Pa. is but one of the jurisdictions in which I am admitted. By virtue of my current good standing in Pa. I get to bypass DC's (for example) bar requirement.  If I were not a member of another bar that doesn't forclose opportunities for me in DC, it just means I have to pursue admission the old fashioned way, by takin and passing the DC bar.

Passing the nursing exam in Trinidad is analogous to me passing the Pa bar, I get to bypass taking certain other states' bar requirement, just as the Trini nurses get to bypass the visa certification process by pursuing the certified statement route. No exam removes the bypass option, and I would even agree that it makes things more difficult for Trini applicants. But it doesn't limit their opportunities any more than me having to sit for the DC bar "limits" my chances of practicing there.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 06, 2012, 11:30:53 AM
Ok, why do you think the Minister of Health wants to remove the accreditation exam? 
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Bakes on July 06, 2012, 01:49:11 PM
Ok, why do you think the Minister of Health wants to remove the accreditation exam? 

Like anything else with this (or any "Third World" country) the right person got in their ear and. Convince them it was a good idea (somebody son or daughter get caught up in it) and it wasn't well thought out. No proof, just a feeling
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 06, 2012, 01:59:42 PM
Bakes I feel it more sinister than that.  This guy is a Doctor, a damn good one by all reports.  You really feel that he go fall for some shit like that?

I do remember several studies by the Goals/Vision 20/20 people and they were very concerned about the brain drain of skilled workers from T&T.

That is exactly what they wanted to prevent, teachers and nurses that leave the shores, so the solution was making it a true professional career with accreditation exams and higher pay and even subsisized housing.

For a man like the Minister to get a vaps and say exams done strange indeed
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 06, 2012, 02:50:45 PM
http://caribbeanmedicalnews.com/2012/02/migrating-nurses-leaving-mentorship-gap-for-newcomers/

http://sta.uwi.edu/conferences/salises/documents/Reis%20%20M.pdf

http://www.newsday.co.tt/news/0,144072.html

Better pay may stem nurses exodus
Tuesday, July 19 2011

click on pic to zoom inHealth matters: Chief Nursing Officer Arnim Hargreaves, left, and president of the Nursing Council Oneilia Alexis in discussion with Minister of Healt...Increasing their salaries might be among the solutions to stem the migration of nurses, Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan said yesterday.

Khan said the nursing shortage in the country is a serious problem and the nurses cannot be stopped from leaving.

“What we have to do is to increase their salaries, hopefully and make them more comfortable,” Khan said in response to a question on the nurse shortage at the opening of the 19th Meeting of Regional General Nursing Councils at the Kapok Hotel, St Clair. At present the country has a shortage of some 3,000 nurses.


On the other hand, president of the Nursing Council of Trinidad and Tobago, Oneilia Alexis said local nursing bodies found out some years ago during an impasse with the Government that the problem was “not really salary, but a lack of education and upward mobility.”

Alexis said, too, that Caricom also needs to rethink the issue of “managed migration” of nurses.

In using education to stem migration, Alexis said, “in TT, we have been improving our education over time. We have worked quite a while to get our nurses to the Bachelor’s of Science Degree, and to train them in other areas. (TT) has been in the forefront of this effort. ”

Caricom Ministers of Health, she said, have agreed that “the Bachelor’s of Science Degree will now be our basic entry level to the profession.”

The Bachelors and Masters programmes in nursing at the University of the West Indies, she said are now seeing an increase in applications and entries.

She welcomed the Government’s move to take legislation to Parliament to enact legislation for the Nurses Practitioners Programme. This programme will allow trained speciality nurses to administer primary health care in the absence of a medical doctor.

“That is very important for us. We have been working on that for a number of years. We are looking forward to that. It is another means of upward mobility. It will give us a broader scope of practice.”

Khan agreed different criteria and methods of training should also help to stem the exodus of locally trained nurses to North America and Europe.

He said trained speciality nurses holding Bachelor of Science degrees and Registered Nursing certification would be eligible for better salaries.

On methods of training, Khan said he is thinking of “introducing the patient care assistant system” in which the assistants going into the system and work their way up to become nurses.

On the issue of managed migration, Alexis noted that the Caricom Heads of Government had looked at it but nothing came out of it.

“Because we are losing nurses all over the Caribbean, it is something that we need to look at again,” she said.

Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 06, 2012, 02:52:03 PM
http://www.caribbeannewsnow.com/caribnet/2005/05/17/exodus.shtml

Monday, May 16, 2005
BASSETERRE, St. Kitts: As regional governments face losing nurses from the Caribbean, Rupert Herbert, St. Kitts and Nevis Minister with responsibility for Health, is hopeful the soon-to-be-opened International University of Nursing in St Kitts, will assist in the reduction of the brain-drain of Caribbean nurses to Canada, England as well as the United States.

“We hope that the demand for our nurses will decrease if the global shortage is addressed this way,” Herbert said while speaking on the World Service of the BBC recently, adding that, while nurses trained at the International University of Nursing “would be a small drop in the bucket, it will still in some way, allay concerns about the brain drain” from the Caribbean.

Earlier this year, Caribbean Net News highlighted the serious problems the region's health services were experiencing due to the exodus of the region's nurses to more lucrative overseas jobs.

According to Trinidad and Tobago's Minister with responsibility for Health, John Rahael, the presence of the nurses from the Philippines is all part of Government’s short-term effort to ease the nation’s nursing shortage, as he further indicated that, following a short orientation before assuming their duties at the end of March, thirty of them will be stationed at the Eric Williams Medical Sciences Complex (EWMSC) while the others will be shared between the St. Ann’s and the Sangre Grande Hospitals.

Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 06, 2012, 02:54:51 PM
However, Montserrat's Minister of Health Idabelle Meede, sees nothing wrong at the moment with Trinidad and Tobago importing nurses from the Philippines.

"We have to look at the real picture. Here in the Caribbean we are very short on nurses. The bigger countries such as the USA and England come in and take up our nurses as soon as we train them.
http://www.caribbeannewsnow.com/caribnet/2005/03/14/working.shtml


Half of Trinidad and Tobago's nurses have left the country. So many nurses have left Jamaica that the government forced Britain to put a moratorium on hiring them. Many nurses leave Canada each year for the U.S., forcing Canada to raid Britain, which in turn poaches nurses from Ghana.


Bakes as I said this has been going on since the mid 80's and it is a huge problem for T&T helath care,  removing the exam limits that mobility even in the Caricom region.

Nothing can convince me that the idea to remove the exam has nothing to do with retention right here in T&T
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 06, 2012, 02:56:57 PM
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/commentaries/Dr_Khan__nurses_must_meet_in_the_middle-161521355.html


As for fixing the shortage of nurses in T&T, Dr Khan should look to deeper solutions than just changing an exam and a council. Nurses from the Caribbean have always been in high demand in other countries, and that has contributed to the shortage of recent decades. But people, especially professionals, do not emigrate only because they can earn a better salary elsewhere. More often, they leave because their country's institutions, systems, and leaders do not value and respect their skills.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Bakes on July 06, 2012, 07:37:24 PM
Bakes I feel it more sinister than that.  This guy is a Doctor, a damn good one by all reports.  You really feel that he go fall for some shit like that?

I do remember several studies by the Goals/Vision 20/20 people and they were very concerned about the brain drain of skilled workers from T&T.

That is exactly what they wanted to prevent, teachers and nurses that leave the shores, so the solution was making it a true professional career with accreditation exams and higher pay and even subsisized housing.

For a man like the Minister to get a vaps and say exams done strange indeed

I don't think is 'vaps' at all... I think he doing this because it favors some (business? personal?) interest.

As for the rest of responses you posted... what point are you getting at, that there is a shortage of nurses?  That there is a nursing brain drain?  I'm not really interested in arguing either of those points.  Of greater interest to me is your central contention that removing the exam will limit the professional opportunities for Trini nurses.  Once again you repeat the bald claim without substantiating how such a limitation would come about.  Nurses would still be in high demand elsewhere... both regionally and internationally.  You have not shown how their opportunities would be limited.  Once again, just look at the statement you yourself posted:

Quote
But people, especially professionals, do not emigrate only because they can earn a better salary elsewhere. More often, they leave because their country's institutions, systems, and leaders do not value and respect their skills.

Accepting this as true (and we don't know that it is) then this would seem to indicate one of two things:

1) Nurses see the removal of the examination requirement as a good thing, and would therefore be encouraged to stay home. Or,
2) Nurses see the removal of the examination requirement as a further slap in the face and look even more fervently to migrate. 

How does either of these scenarios fit with your conspiracy theory that the government is trying to prevent nurses from migrating and working abroad?

How would the change in policy limit employment opportunities for nurses?  You are YET to really explain the correlation as you see it.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 06, 2012, 11:59:28 PM
Student nurses: Keep registration exam
Saturday, July 7 2012

Student nurses are against Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan’s plan to remove the Nurses’ Registration examination.

Training under the Health Ministry and the College of Science Technology and Applied Arts of Trinidad and Tobago (COSTAATT), the student nurses met at the Port-of-Spain General Hospital yesterday to discuss the pros and cons of removing the exam, if it is taken by Khan.

The students plan to meet with him to discuss the effects stopping the exam will have on them locally and internationally.

On Thursday, Khan said the Nursing Council of Trinidad and Tobago’s (NCTT) registration exam is outdated and removing the exam will not lower nursing standards. He said the exam was formed to facilitate those nurses who were trained “in house” at hospitals. He said the exam was needed at a time when there were no accredited tertiary institutions. Student nurses disagree with Khan and appealed to him to let the exam remain.

“If the minister takes away the registration exams, nurses won’t be properly qualified and they won’t be able to demand better pay, the Government will be able to pay us whatever they want,” a student nurse said at the meeting. The student nurses said the registration by the Nursing Council is what makes them “marketable” to other countries, therefore the exam was a necessary qualification.
“Those standards are what makes us marketable and professional individuals,” said a student nurse. She said nurses want the option of practising anywhere they choose including other countries.

“After the minister takes away our freedom he takes away our leverage and he can limit us, exams is something to level the play field,” said another student nurse. “This would mean nurses cannot go to other countries not even in the Caribbean.” Afterward, student nurses training at COSTAATT held a second meeting to discuss the deplorable living conditions of the hostel and other problems they have been encountering with the Bachelor of Science degree offered by the tertiary institution. Student Natalie Agarrat spoke of her “wonderful experience” in a nurse’s hostel in Jamaica. Agarrat spoke of the visiting area being a clean and inviting environment. She also said the level of security in Jamaica’s hostel was commendable, adding that Trinidad is in direct need of a similar hostel.

Marisa Pryce, another student, said they are required to make up 3,285 clinical hours, which is the practical time they spend on the wards rotating from various medical sections.

Pryce complained of the difficulty to make up the required practical hours, along with studying 49 courses, some which include creative arts subjects unrelated to the degree, and submitting laboratory reports.

“Out of the 49 courses, subjects like Music, Arts and Craft should not be mandatory but elective, as it does not apply to a science degree,” Pryce said.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Socapro on July 07, 2012, 01:38:33 AM
Removal of the Nurses’ Registration examination is definitely a backward steps.

No one can sensibly argue against that point.

Our Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan should go to jail for even proposing such a plan!  >:(
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: fishs on July 07, 2012, 10:23:41 AM

 If they are schooled and trained in trinidad they should at least serve in trinidad for time that is equivalent to the cost of the training before thay bust it.

 Now if you use gate you have to either repay or work for some time at home
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: Bakes on July 07, 2012, 11:45:11 AM
Student nurses: Keep registration exam
Saturday, July 7 2012

Student nurses are against Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan’s plan to remove the Nurses’ Registration examination.

yadda yadda yadda...

Lemme know when yuh ready to start yuh argument. Posting bald hyperbolic statements no different from your own is hardly advancing your cause.  These students opposed the plan and others support it.  The statements here claim that the exam makes them more marketable... which no one denies... it smooths the path to foreign work. That's never been in dispute so enough of the red-herrings.  I'm interested in finding out HOW the lack of exam certification would prevent nurses from working abroad, particularly in an era of shortage.
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 07, 2012, 12:10:07 PM
Listen I have my opinion and I am convinced that I am correct in my assessment of the situation.

Without the exam the nurses have no choice but to stay and work in Trinidad.  It is plain for all to see that without the accrediation exam the nurses are NOT registered and cannot get even a provisional certification OUTSIDE T&T.

There is a great shoratge of nurses in T&T has been the case for decades.

They leave in droves.

Now with the exam possibly removed, they cannot.  This not a suggestion that is a FACT!   In order to wuk overseas they need certification at home.

For Caricom jobs, they need the regional certification and same goes for Canada, USA and UK..maybe they can go India and get ah wuk without the exam.

Case closed, take win
Title: Re: Govt to remove nursing exam
Post by: truetrini on July 13, 2012, 04:32:23 AM
Nursing Council exam ‘optional’

Friday, July 13 2012

After a war of words between Health Minister Dr Fuad Khan and the Nursing Council over the minister’s plan to make amendments to the Nurses and Midwives Act to remove the council’s registration exam, Khan appears to have softened his position.

Yesterday, he said he would try and make the exam “optional.”

At yesterday’s post-Cabinet media briefing, Khan said he would meet with the Nursing Council, possibly on Monday when he returns from Tobago, where Cabinet was having a retreat.

He told the media at Coco Reef Resort:

“I was not removing the exam. I was trying to make it optional, but not compulsory for TT students who come out of accredited institutions.”

Khan said the council exam comprised four papers – two multiple choice and two essays. To pass the exam nurses must get 60 percent in all the papers.

“Some of the students can get 90 to 100 marks in two of the papers which are multiple choice. And if they get 58 or 59 in the other two papers, they fail the total exam.

That has been going on for a long time. So you could get almost 100 percent in the multiple choice which is clinical and non clinical, but the ones which are corrected which are essay type questions you could end up not getting that 60 percent. After three tries then you are out of nursing forever,” Khan said.

Based on this, he, said the format of the exam did not auger well for the total average students received.